Jack - The Manafort Megasode (feat. Matthew Miller)

Episode Date: March 10, 2019

S3E10 - Joining us this week is Matthew Miller (MSNBC Justice and Security Analyst)! Plus, Jordan covers the latest on Erik Prince, Jaleesa breaks down some interesting news about Cindy Yang, and AG talks about the 81 letters Gerry Nadler sent out this week and more! Enjoy! 

Hi, I'm Harry Lickman, host of Talking Feds. Around table, the brings together prominent figures from government law and journalism for a dynamic discussion of the most important topics of the day. Each Monday, I'm joined by a slate of Feds favorites at new voices to break down the headlines and give the insider's view of what's going on in Washington and beyond. Plus, side bars explaining important legal concepts read by your favorite celebrities. Find Talking Feds Wherever You Get Your Podcast. Muller She Wrote is brought to you by Murder Book, a new true crime podcast hosted by best-selling

author Michael Connelly, available on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. Also be sure to check out Dark Sacred Night. Michael Connelly's latest number one bestseller featuring detectives Harry Bosch and Renee Ballard. And thanks to Noom for supporting Mueller, she wrote, sticking to a weight loss plan can be hard. Noom is designed for results. It's out with the old habits and in with the new. Sign up for your trial today at Noomnoom.com slash AG. And thanks to Skillshare for supporting Mueller, she wrote, join the millions of students already learning Skillshare today with a special offer just for our listeners. Get two months of Skillshare for free.

That's right, Skillshare is offering Mullershi Road listeners two months of unlimited access to over 25,000 classes for free. To sign up, go to Skillshare.com slash AG. Again, that's Skillshare.com slash AG to start your two months now. So to be clear, Mr. Trump has no financial relationships with any Russian oligarchs. That's what he said. That's what I said. That's obviously what our position is. I'm not aware of any of those activities.

I have been called a surrogate at a time, a two in that campaign, and I didn't have, and I have communications with the Russians. What do I have to get involved with Putin for? I have nothing to do with Putin. I've never spoken to him. I don't know anything about a mother than he will respect me. Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. So, it is political. You're a communist!

No, Mr. Green. Communism is just a red herring. Like all members of the oldest profession I'm a capitalist. Hello, and welcome to Mollarshi Road. I'm your host A.G. and with me as always is Julie Sojonson. Hello. And Jordan Coburn. Hello. First a big thank you to our over we have over 6400 patrons now guys who get access to our MSW book club which is out now. The midweek full length ad free episodes ad free main episodessale or VIP ticket discounts to live shows, access to our closed Facebook group where you can play the fantasy indictment league and all sorts of gifts. So all that for three bucks is those little is three bucks. So you're

all awesome. Thank you so much. And you're all now automatically patrons for our forthcoming weekday show called the Daily Beans coming soon. We I kind of was like, ah, 7,000 patrons. That'll be next year. No, it's like probably April. So I feel like as soon as we started talking about it, people started really jumping on and joining. Yep, so quickly. Just great. Yeah, I'm excited. Coming out soon. Let's see here. Speaking of live shows, you can come see us at the Miracle Theater with Natasha Bertrand and Katie Fang on March 29th in Washington, D.C. Will also be at the Bellhouse in Brooklyn March 30th with Matthew Miller, who's joining us later in the show for the interview to talk about Manafort's bullshit sentence and Andrea Chalupa from Gaslight Nation. She'll be there as well. Or you can come see us at Largo

in Hollywood, April 18th with special guests Elizabeth Cronaise McLaughlin and Greg Proops with special appearance by Randall of Crazy As Honey Badger fame. The Largo was sold out, but they've released a limited amount of additional tickets, and as of this recording, there are still some left, so grab them now, and announcing our live show in Minneapolis at the Parkway Theater June 14th.

There are general admission tickets and VIP meet and greet packages available now. Just head to the Parkway Theatre's website to grab your tickets for that. Or we should be able to update it on mullershearout.com. This week was intense, you guys. I mostly sat around waiting for the Manifort Sentencing, which was a massive let down,

but how was your week? It was okay. I'm with you on that. It's kind of a bummer. It was a let down. It was a huge let down. Oh yeah. I mean, I think Ellis has just been kind of problem,

not problematic. That's a weighted word to describe him, but he's been sort of siding on the side of like absolutely 100% not relating this sentence. And anyway, whatsoever to the Mueller probe. Yeah. He hated this case He did he hated this case and he thought it was bullshit. It was obvious. I think he he that he had statements that were indicative of him Being like this is bullshit. I'm not gonna treat this like it's some appendage of the molar probe

Yeah, and we're gonna get into the difference between that and regular crime criminals like the rest of us and regular crime criminals, like the rest of us commoners and how those sentences differ when we talk to Matthew Miller later and we might cover to get in the wrap-ups and stick around for that. Jordan, you're going to take a deep dive into a story about a guy. We haven't talked about for a while, Eric Prince, and Jolissa, you'll be covering some interesting news about Cindy Yang. Wang Yang, I call her, the woman who founded the Orcids of Asia Day Spa in Jupiter, Florida, where Patriots owner Robert Kraft was caught getting happy endings from trafficked women. So this isn't just you know typical prostitution bus. These are sex trafficked women that are there for like against

their will. So, Yuck, that's horrifying. And I'm going to talk about the also ranz that received one of those 81 letters, Jerry Nadler sent out this week. And as previously stated, we have MSNBC Justice and Security Analyst Matthew Miller joining us for the interview. I believe we fix the audio issues. So thank you for your patience on that. We're still, you know, Indy and we still have to do all this ourselves. So we appreciate your patience.

But he and I will be chatting about, again, the ridiculous miscarriage of justice that was Manafort's sentencing. But before we jump into the news it's time for corrections. Oh, I made a mistake. Okay, so first I said that when Jeffrey Epstein, that's the pedophile guy with the sex trafficking and the parties and Alan Dershowitz and Trump and all that. I said when he was serving his sweetheart sentence that he got to go home at night and went to his private jail cell during the day, but it's the other way around, so thank you for pointing that out.

I also implied that the framers of the Constitution were rad for including term limits, but those came much later, obviously, in 1951 with the 22nd Amendment, sorry, for the confusion there. Also, we want to clarify that we know that the indicted Beebe Netanyahu was democratically elected when we read the concerns from a journalist named Inbar, who we incidentally called him, and we later found out that that is a she her name traditionally and that she does in fact identify as a she as a she so apologies there. Sorry Inbar. I think what would you say, Julius? It's a hebron name for Amber. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. I also said there weren't going to be any charges in the shooting of stuff on Clark,

brought by the Grand jury, but it was actually the Sacktown County DA, Sacramento County District Attorney that made that decision, Sacktown County DA. It sounds like a weird song. And for the pronunciation of the right-wing party in Sweden, I found out it's a, I was close, but it's a soft G like GIF, It's not GIF. It's GIF. And that makes it a Spherege Democraterna. Oh, okay. So you have to add that at the end. So if that's not right, no more. Just let's agree that I can't pronounce it, though one Swedish listener gave me a nine out of ten. So thank you for that. I also said Trump got an MBA and

and probably lied about it. Well, he didn't. So I was right when I guess he didn't have one. Then we had dedicated and this was kind of an interesting bunch of emails that we got. We dedicated the last episode to Brody Stevens and we said that he had committed suicide. Many of you suggested we say, died by suicide because the word committed connotates a bad act and I really like. And I'm going to make an effort to use that. Yeah, that was really interesting. Yeah, I like that better. So finally, we said Obama was not a legacy at Harvard,

but his dad went there. So technically, he was, even though his dad got a PhD in economics, so he wasn't a law legacy. But we wanted to be clear about that. Oh, and somebody asked about the phrase I used in the midweek episode for patrons wanting to know what I meant by nuclear boobies. They're like, what are nuclear boobies? So when you drive up to five between San Diego and Los Angeles and you pass San Anofre state

beach, there's the San Anofre nuclear power plant and the cooling towers are shaped like two giant boobs. So that's, we call them the nuclear boobies. You can check in there on Facebook if you want. It's a thing. Yeah, you can't miss it when you're driving pass it. No, no, yeah. Drive by there and try to have your first thought not be boobies. Yeah, dare you. And it was even featured in the naked gun. Every where I look something reminds me of. Yeah, so yeah, it's unmistakable monument to tits. Yeah, it's a great landmark.

It's kind of like the halfway point. So we always, if you're driving up to LA, where are you at? Nuclear boobies. Yeah, it's the beacon of boobies. Yeah, yeah, bringing love and boobies to the West Coast. Also, after our little chat, we had about constructive feedback. I got to say, you guys, your compliments, sandwiches, were delicious this week, and a pleasure to read.

So thank you. And if you have any corrections, just send them over to helloatmullorshearote.com, and we'll get them right someday. Sparage, democoratrina. I can do it. Probably not. Welcome to Teacher Quit Talk.

I'm misredacted. And I'm Mrs. Frazzled. Every week we explore the teacher exodus to find out what if anything could get these educators back in the classroom. We've all had our moments where we thought, what the hell am I doing here? From burnout to bureaucracy to soul-secing stressors

and creative dead ends. From recognizing when it was time to go, to navigating feelings of guilt and regret afterwards, we're here to cut off a gaslighting and get real about what it means to leave teaching. We've got insights from former teachers from all over the country who have seen it all. So get ready to be disturbed.

Join us on Teacher Quit Talk to laugh through the pain of the U.S. education system. We'll see you there. So, Renato, do you still have your own podcast? Yeah, it's complicated. What's so complicated about a podcast? That's the name of the podcast, remember? Oh!

Will you still be exploring topics that help us understand the week's news? You bet, but we'll have a new name, because we're going to be working together to explore complicated issues that are done in the news. Working together? Yeah, your hosting it with me, remember? Oh, right. Wait. Does that mean our podcast is going to have a steam op segment?

Let's not get carried away. But we'll discuss hot new legal topics. So check out our new episode coming soon to everywhere you get podcasts as well as YouTube. All right, with corrections out of the way, would you say we report some news with just the facts? Okay, all the way back to the beginning of the week, right after I did my massive hot note on all things that house Dems were investigating. Jerry Nadler wrote 81 letters to 81 people to request documents and I'll go over that

in hot notes for you. We had a lot of folks asking for a breakdown of those requests. Someone's like, hey, can you go over those 81 things and say what they're involved in? And I'm like, that's our entire podcast for the last year and a half. So you can just listen to the whole podcast. But there were some names on there that a lot of people weren't familiar with, and I wanted to bring those up,

because we did, we, we have mentioned all of them, but there's some that we've only mentioned once or twice or in passing, and we didn't really put a spotlight on. So we'll go over those in hot notes. Then Monday, we learned the house is also seeking information about the communications between Putin and Trump. As you'll remember, there were at least a half dozen occasions where Trump and Putin either met or called each other,

all of which we had to learn about from Russian state media because Trump wouldn't let American journalists in the room or to cover them. Nor do I imagine he wanted us to know what he was saying in those meetings. Some of them were clandestine, pretty secret. So Monday, three house committee chairs sent a letter to the White House and the State Department requesting

detailed information about the communications between Trump and Putin. Adam Schiff, Elliot Engel, and Elijah Cummings, those are the chairs of House Intel, House Foreign Affairs, and House Oversight, respectively, sent the requests to acting White House Chief of Staff, Mick Mulvaneyaney and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. They're demanding all the topics they discussed, any documents related to the

meetings and calls. If any of the chats provided a basis for any foreign policy, they also want to know if anyone concealed, obscured, or misrepresented the substance of the communications to any federal officials, departments, or agencies to shield Trump from scrutiny by Congress or law enforcement So it's pretty wide ranging and they have until the I'd Zab March to comply. That's March 15 For people who haven't read Julius Caesar in a while or watch that movie does I'd mean 15 I think so I all I know is the I'd Zab March here Yeah, the 15th of March and it was be where the I'd Zimarcher. Yeah, the 15th of March. And it was be where the I'd Zimarch.

That's when Brutus stands easier. Oh no. A-2, Brutus. Wait, Brutus? Brutay. It's Brutay and Latin. Brutus over here. Over here.

Because we were over here when that was happening. We weren't. Yeah, actually, I remember I sent out one of my favorite tweets I ever put out was, if Michael Boobley, if I ever meet Michael Boobley, I hope that he likes Monster Trucks too, so that I can say, at two Boobley. And that was seriously one of my favorite tweets. I like that. I've never been able to set up a premise, but I wanted to have a punchline that was just

like, a two-boo-tay. Yeah, but I can't figure that out. Yeah, you can do that. If anybody, if any girl you're chasing or any dude has a hot ass that you're chasing and they, and they, and they, turn me down or, or it's unrequited, that could be an A2 Bouté.

Thank you so much, A.G. Or if you, if you do a Bouté call and they never hit you back. They go say. Like maybe they do the dot dot dot and it, and it disappears and then the dot dot dot and it disappears. You can be at two butte and yes. That's perfect. Or hemorrhoids. A two butte. Wow. Yes. Dude. Yeah. You trader. You butt trader. I love this.

We also learned Monday that Trump asked Gary Cohn to block the AT&T and time Warner merger, which in any other administration would be a huge scandal. This came to light in a report about the natural relationship between Fox News and the White House, and I'd like to bring up the fact that Fox News's Twitter is still dark and has been ever since Rupert Murdoch met with Turtle Dick Mitch on the hill November 8th of last year. My guess is, my guess, Mrs. Beans, is that Fox News tweeted out something it wasn't supposed to, like I don't know, stolen WikiLeaks documents, and has been forced to shutter its account while it's under investigation. Because as we know, WikiLeaks is under investigation right now.

But WikiLeaks's tweet is back, or Twitter's back up, I don't know. Anyway, for this time Warner merger, we know that Trump hates CNN, which is part of this deal. It's reminiscent of Trump trying to jack up shipping prices on Bezos because he doesn't like the Washington Post, which Bezos owns. Even likely working with AMI and David Pecker to blackmail Bezos. If true, Trump telling Gary Cone to block this deal is blatant abuse of power, it will likely show up in the articles of impeachment.

So look out for that. And according to a source, Trump called Cone, and then chief of staff John Kelly into his office to say to Kelly, I've been telling Cone to get this lawsuit filed and nothing has happened. I've mentioned it 50 times. I want to make sure it's filed. I want that deal blocked. So that's pretty straightforward.

That wasn't like one of those weird communications like how you just kind of look at somebody and say, what are we going to do here? I want it blocked. And afterwards according to Jane Mayer of the New Yorker, Cone told Kelly not to follow through with the president's request. Now let's think about what we know about Cone and Kelly. Cone resigned after I think Jordan, we were talking about this in one of the old book reviews that he couldn't get on board with Trump's tariffs right and Kelly we know he hates Trump yeah I can't like actually knows econ right he's like I can't I gotta go man um you're fucking stupid and then Kelly hates Trump obviously so how do you think this is gonna play out it's not looking for Trump, though we've said this many times before. So who knows? The Wall Street Journal then reported Tuesday that a lawyer for Cohen approached Trump's legal team, specifically J. Sekulo and Rudy Giuliani, about a pardon after federal agents rated Cohen's properties last April. It's important to note that during his testimony Cohen said the last communications

he had with Trump or any of Trump's agents was just after the raid. Member he was like two months after the raid, I think, maybe. And Trump has admitted Cohen's lawyers and Cohen himself asked for a pardon and Trump and his attorneys told them no. So presumably Cohen was raided. He asked for a pardon, either directly or through legal channels. Then it ultimately said no.

So Cohen decided to flip on him. If Trump or Trump's attorneys discussed at all any aspect of a potential of a potential pardon, they're on a hook criminally provided that it can be proven. So throw that on the stack of obstructions of justice. And then meanwhile Cohen told Congress he never asked for a pardon. God damn it. And he may have burgeoned himself there, but he might not have.

He might have been doing the semantics thing where he personally didn't ask Trump for a pardon, but maybe he sent his lawyers or he asked his lawyers, or he never actually said, give me a pardon to Trump with his mouth. I mean, that might be it, but we'll find out. With his mouth. They're both lying liars.

So without documentary evidence, it's going to be really impossible to know the real story. In other news, Cohen met behind closed doors again this Wednesday with the House Intel Committee, where he apparently provided documents showing alleged edits to his 2017 testimony about Trump Tower Moscow by Trump lawyers. The documents show J. Sekulow made changes to Cohen's statements to the House and Senate Intel committees and that the statements were reviewed ahead of time by the attorney for Kushner and Ivanka, Abby Loll. And that sounds like a conspiracy to me. There's a lot of people involved, so conspiracy sounds like subordinate perjury, maybe witness

tampering, certainly obstruction of justice. And if Trump knew about it, he's implicated. Finally, because if you know about it and you let it happen, you're in on the conspiracy. You are a fellow conspirator. And then finally, we learn this week that Cohen is suing the Trump Organization for legal fees, resulting from the Mueller probe and the Stormy Daniels lawsuit. Cohen contends he had a contractual agreement with the Trump Organization to compensate him for fees and costs incurred through his work with and on behalf of company officials.

He claims the Trump Organization owes him 1.9 million for legal fees and an additional 1.9 million that he was forced to forfeit as part of his criminal sentence arising from conduct directed by the president. And this is a pretty slick legal move because if Trump fights it, he will be subject to deposition and discovery. Yeah, I mean, it seems fair and that's also a move because if Trump fights it, he will be subject to deposition and discovery. Yeah. I mean, it seems fair. And that's also Trump change if, you know, I mean, Trump change. And ha ha ha ha. Don't you want to loan?

Yes, exactly. It's Trump change. And every time I say that though, I'm like, wait, no, he's actually not nearly as rich as we think he is. He has no money, probably. Let's see. We also learned Tuesday some stuff about the Roger Stone case. As you know, Judge Jackson slapped a limited gag order on him and last week, Stone, well, she put the limited gag order on him and then we guessed even though

we wanted her to revoke the bail after he went out and just set a bunch of bullshit, she just expanded the gag order, right? And then this last week, Stone posted a photo of Judge Jackson on social media with what appeared to be Crosshairs by her head, and the judge then demanded he had until this last Monday to explain himself, like what the fuck, bro? And there's also a book being released that also probably violates his gag order, because it's about how Trump Russia is hoax, right? The Russia Russia which hoax or whatever the fuck? Not to mention over this last week and Stone posted a mock-up movie post

reparity of who framed Roger Rabbit that said who framed Roger Stone. So in court this week the judge chastised him and then gave him until March 11th to get his shit together and if she's not satisfied with it, she might quote adjust his environment. So I'm hoping she revokes bail and throws him in jail. Did he? He'd be such a jail queen. We fucking love that shit.

He would. He would make the jumpsuit look so fashionable. He reminds me of Dr. Evil when he was in jail. Oh, yeah. He could get a little hard knock life. Who could have minig me going? It would be great. Oh, a mini stow. A mini stow.

It's just a rock though with his name on it. With that top hat. I can imagine him taking everything I could champ. He's like, I'm just happy to be here. I've been working towards this my whole life. I'm the most famous guy here. Yeah, that's all that matters. Give me that baloney. Give me that green baloney. Yeah, I and when he first violated the gag order, the limited gag order, and I wanted him to be thrown in jail. I didn't think she was going to revoke his bail. We enjoyed and you, you and I agreed on this too. I, and Julie said, I think you did too.

Like she's just going to expand the gag order. But this time I think she might actually revoke his bail. So yeah, I mean, releasing or re-releasing, as they say, a book that's all about how this entire investigation is out. Such a scene. That's like, she's is. Yeah, it's putting like crosshairs on the whole thing. It's almost like, like when Manafort was out on bail

and he wrote that op-ed with his European friends about how Russia was a hoax. It's like, you can't. Oh, they're just so dumb. You go inside. I don't get it. I just don't understand. And I do, though, I think beans on revoking his bail. They're just so dumb. You go inside. I don't get it. I just don't understand.

And I do, though, I think beans on revoking his bail and he'll be in jail until the trial starts. Yeah. I'm with you on that one because she said that they have until March 11th to show how they can get back and compliance with it. And it's like if they've already sold copies, which they did and stuff, I don't know. I don't know how you can do damage control and all the things that he's done As a whole at this point. No, I don't think you can take that back

Sold books. I didn't buy one A recall Where's your recall these books? He that would be funny if he suggested that can we just do a recall judge? Yeah, I'll tell them all it's contaminated with bullshit Yeah, I'll tell them all it's contaminated with bullshit. I have really honestly think he he just doesn't care as long as he's getting attention and I'm kind of feel bad for giving it to him right now but whatever he doesn't listen so guys we'll be right back.

Hey Mueller junkies thanks to murder book the new true crime podcast hosted by bestselling author Michael Connelly for supporting Mueller she wrote returning to his roots as a journalist bestselling author Michael Connelly for supporting Mollershi Road. Returning to his roots as a journalist, bestselling author Michael Connelly now presents the true crime podcast murder book, working with very best detectives who inform his novels and his hit television show Bosch. The podcast explores real homicide cases not covered by mainstream media. Murder book season one is the tell tale bullet and it dives into a 30 year old Hollywood carjacking gone wrong that tests the limits of the American criminal justice system. Sound familiar?

Also, from Michael Connolly, Dark Sacred Night, his latest number one bestseller featuring detectives Harry Bosch and Renee Ballard. You can find Dark Sacred Night wherever books are sold. I personally love the way Michael Connolly tells a story, and I know you will too. Not only is his book well written and riveting, it's a page-turner. But the way he presents law enforcement cases in his true crime podcast Murderbook provides a unique point of view that I haven't heard before in podcasting, so I look forward to it every week.

So be sure to check out Michael Connelly's new Murderbook podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, or at murderbookpodcasts.com. That's murderbookpodcasts.com. That's MurderbookPotCast.com. You'll be glad you did. Alright guys, welcome back. Let's see, we were on Tuesday and the New Yorker did a piece on the New Hire for the House Intel Committee, Daniel Goldman. Oh, yes, Goldman!

The D is silent in America. It's called Dillomore or Cole of the Isle of Man in France where our mums Chateau is and Coleman in Greece where our mums work is and finally the Volga Coleman in Florida where our mums home is. So actually we don't know where we are until we hear our last name pronounced. Ah! So Goldman is a veteran prosecutor with experience in Russian organized crime, money laundering, securities fraud, and racketeering.

And he has 10 years experience with the Southern District of New York, Trump's favorite district, in that US Attorney's office. And this is a guy shift hired to lead the House Intelligence Committee's investigation into Trump's ties to Russia. The House Intelligence Committee's focusing more on the Russia Trump thing, whereas the oversight committee is focusing more on financial oversight,

and the judiciary is looking at obstruction of justice. So they're all kind of looking at their own things as their charters tell them to. And we'll keep an eye on that investigation as it unfolds Also Tuesday we found out that it appears Michael Caputo is going full nunberg as Chalice says And that he's refusing to cooperate with the House Judiciary Committee's inquiry into whether or not Trump has abused his power So Caputo told the Washington Post that he Has spoken to four other Trump associates for the guys

Washington Post that he has spoken to four other Trump associates, four other guys, who received requests from the judiciary committee to start an alliance of assholes, I guess, to resist requests for testimony. Alliance of assholes, like a human centipede. It's just so hard to lift to each other's butts. We'll never tell. Caputo says that that was weird. Caputo says the request is a perjury trap designed to impeach the president. I'm sure all five idiots will be subpoenaed.

So stay tuned. Yeah, there's a lot of dottis connecting there. A perjury trap to impeach the president. He just skips over the like, and being perjured more or the crimes. Yeah, everything that would happen in between. Minor details. It went to 7-11 and they impeached the crimes. Yeah, everything that would happen in between. Minor details. It went to 7-11 and they impatient the president.

So don't Jesse is smaller? No, that was. He went to a subway. Oh, that's going to become a verb soon. It will. To small it somebody. It is. It's a unique name.

It is. Is it pronounced smaller or small at? Or I guess small at. I've heard different ways. Yeah, Jussie. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well he's in trouble too. I think 16 indictments dropped on him today. What a weird world. Also Tuesday the Washington posted a piece on Trump's extensive efforts to hide his grades from the public. We know from the Cohen testimony that he Cohen-wrote threatening letters to Trump's schools warning them against releasing Trump's grades. But the post, Washington Post, broke the news that the New York Military Academy moved its Trump files to a secure location amid pressure by Trump's rich buddies.

The school agreed to help guarantee the files would never get out, citing fear of litigation. They were intimidated. And this all took place around the same time. Trump was accusing Obama of being a terrible student and demanding his grades be released, which is typical Trump, right? Realize you suck at something. Blame your opponents for sucking at what you suck at and then blame Hillary Clinton. So yeah, I'm sure we'll see his grades soon enough though, because every investigative journalist

in the world is on this story now. Yeah. I mean, even if his grades are bad though, he could just be like, I and Sun had bad grades in school. Yeah, he could get out of it too. It's not even that hard to get out of. He's got pride. He just won't let him. Just that you go and preemptively, I don't know, that's just weird. And I've seen a copy of a report card going around. It's fake. Guys. We don't actually have his grades yet. There was so funny. Yeah, no, like not that one.

There was another one that came out from Ford and University that showed he had a 1.23 grade point average. And it looked like a legit report card. It's not. That is a non-sourced thing. Nice try. Whoever made it up, we're better at teching.

Then the Republicans, but it is a fake. So you'll know when somebody gets ahold of his grades. I promise, I'll tell you. Also Tuesday, Washington Post reported that Trump is going to move Jesse Lou, the US attorney in DC, over to the number three spot at main justice. The big news here is at Jesse Lou, has overseen investigations including Roger Stone, Maria Bhutna, Sam Patton. That's the guy who laundered Russian money into the Trump inaugural and was indicted. And one of Manafort's cases, the DC case, the one that will hear the sentencing for next

week. She oversaw all that and she's going to be replaced by somebody who might not be so friendly to these kinds of investigations. Even though Trump put her there in DC, things seem especially fishy since we learned he asked Matthew fucking Whitaker to have Berman unrequse himself and oversee the Southern District of New York Cohen prosecution there. So he'd be a Trump friendly guy. It's just one more example of Trump trying desperately to cauterize one of the multiple tendrils that has sprouted from Muller probe, he will lose.

So, good luck. In Manafort News this week, oh god. So first, you guys know most of this. Muller filed a thing this week saying, the thing, it's a technical term for it. He filed a thing saying, Manafort shouldn't get any downward variation on his sentence. He shouldn't get a break because he's a giant piece of criminal shit. And Matthew Miller and I will go into the sentencing hearing that took place Thursday in depth in the interview later in the show.

But to set that up for you, Mueller basically hammered Manifort saying he's got no remorse. He's got, he's not accepted responsibility for his actions. He lied to prosecutors and he put all that in his sentencing response this past Tuesday. And then the hearing, the sentencing hearing happened obviously. And then Friday after we recorded the interview after I recorded the interview with Matthew Miller, the transcripts of the Thursday hearing came out so we didn't get to talk about this.

But we learned that after Manafort was sentenced to fewer than four years for crimes that sentencing guidelines recommended 19 and a half to 24 and a half years. So he got a huge break, right? Manifort was sentenced to fewer than four years for crimes that sentenced and guidelines recommended 19 and a half to 24 and a half years. So he got a huge break, right? Manifort's attorneys had the Khutsba to ask Ellis to order that the upcoming sentencing in DC be served concurrently, which means at the same time, not consecutively, to which Ellis said it's up to her.

And then it, I don't know, just take a special level of privilege to ask for that shit after you just got that massive break. And now you want the court to order her sentence to be served concurrently with the one that you just got. It's absolute bullshit. Yeah, they feel like they're on a roll or just pressing their luck. Oh, that made me mad.

And Chuck Rosenberg said about the request, quote, many years ago. I just love Chuck Rosenberg. Many years ago, Congress passed the statute to create federal sentence and guidelines to bring some parity to the system. So if you did what Manafort did, let's say, in San Diego or Spokane or Topeka, you would get roughly the same sentence regardless of which court or which judge was handling the matter.

And this wasn't just a departure. This was a dramatic departure. And it was a departure without a motion from the government to depart downward. Manafort lied. He did not deserve a departure. And he didn't deserve what he got. Meaning he should have gotten a lot more or so.

Unquote. Manafort will be sentenced in DC next week. We've talked about this. And I'm hoping Judge Jackson throws the book at him. He's also, as we know, facing state charges now for tax fraud. So they're still hope. They're TN ups. We did this covered this in the midweek episode, I believe, New York Attorney General. And possibly Eastern District of Virginia are are teeing up crimes against Manafort. Yeah. I wonder if she'll go harder on him because he was gone so easy on with Ellis. It

was her case that he blew up the plea deal in. Right. So and yeah, she's already been based off. And another main difference that some folks are talking about is that he pleaded guilty in her court. He pleaded not guilty in Ellis's court. Another thing is he only got two counts against him in the DC court. Presumably would have gotten a lot more, but he only got two in order to get the plea deal, which he blew up. So I don't think she's gonna go that easy on him. My beans are on eight years. Yeah, what a consequence. Consequently. Yes, yeah, that would be awesome. I feel like too, if Ellis is consulting other cases of the past of similar natures to, you know, just if I not throwing the whole book at him and Even less what he did. I feel like that'd be completely fair. The fur pamphlet at him. Yeah, a brochure.

Light reading for you. brochure. So you committed treason through the cliff notes. Look it over. See how you feel about it. the cliff notes. Look it over. See how you feel about it. I wonder if then it would be appropriate. I feel like it would be appropriate for Jackson to reference other cases as well. And her sentence say one of them being Ellis that totally gave him a light sentence. Probably doesn't work like that.

She could. What is precedent really? That's my question. Yes. Oh, I'm just so upset about that sentencing, but uh, and oddly, I haven't had all the, um, all the Trump guys who normally come at me and tell me to fuck myself in the heart. They haven't come at me and said, ha ha, he only got four years. Probably because obviously my response would be Trump's campaign managers going to prison.

Like, yeah. What? Oh, it's only four years. to prison. Like, oh, it's only four years. You win, like fuck you. That's so maybe that's why they're leaving me alone. Or maybe, I don't know, maybe it's because I blocked them all. Yeah. I really do feel like Ellis has some sort of disdainment, though, for the fact

that that case even arose because it wouldn't have a reason if it weren't for the muller probe. So I feel like, I mean, at least it like it should have and it could have, but it probably wouldn't have. Well, Mueller's charging document, his scope says to look into these crimes, crimes of collusion and anything else that comes up. So he was well within his scope, but Ellis said time and again, hey, man, I know all what you're trying to do. There's no collusion here. You're just trying to put the screws to Manafort to get him to flip on Trump. I

don't like it. I don't like it. Whatever. I think he, he's an old timey Republican, white guy. So totally, I guess they stick together. That like a man of leverage is the way that our justice system is able to operate and get any sort of intel out of people. That's a common thing. That's how we catch crimes. So, anyway, we'll go over that in the interview, too. It was depressing. Then, something odd happened Wednesday, you guys.

We learned that Chelsea Manning was subpoenaed to testify in the case against Assange and WikiLeaks. And if you remember, Chelsea Manning was sentenced to 35 years for supplying documents to WikiLeaks, and Obama commuted all but four months of her sentence back in 2017 after she'd already served seven years. She appeared to, so you can understand her trepidation here. She appeared in court Wednesday with the US Attorney and Assistant Attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia, Zachary Tura Williger, Tura Williger, and I call him G Willikers, and Kellond Wire, where Chelsea Manning said she did not want to test to find the grounds that it could violate her first fourth and sixth

amendment rights, but on Friday, the judge demanded her to custody, quote, until she purges or the end of the life of the grand jury." So she's in jail until she either ponies up whatever they're asking her or until the grand jury disbands. So she's obviously a man named told a reporter she was prepared to go to jail following the close contempt hearing. She's like, I already done seven years, bro. And this grand jury can't last more than 18 months.

Our friends welcome her back. Yeah. And as you guys all know because of I I think it was a copy and paste error on the docket. We all learned that a sange had been indicted already. So I assume they're subpoenaing manning to get her testimony on a sange. Maybe to help build the case in the hack Russia dissemination of hack documents, Hillary emails, DS, you know, D-triple C, DNC, etc. And we also learned that another person involved in the case has already agreed to testify in exchange for immunity. Julie, so you reported this on the midweek episode. It's really an amazing story. Oh yeah.

And I think that the silver lining here is that Fox News is actually gendering her properly. Mm-hmm. Yeah, they're respectful in that nature. Sorry they forgot. Well, they're respectful on that nature. Sorry they forgot. Well, yeah, I mean. That's possible, but I don't know. They might have respect for her for her help with wiki leaks.

Like, you know, they're on that side sometimes. Yeah, but they're on wiki leaks side right now. Yeah, exactly. And so. So she's the enemy. You think she's the enemy of Fox? Well, I guess by now, maybe, but at the time now. So, it was strange camaraderie with their history.

They have a strange relationship with the big switch. Consistency. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that was nice. They're calling her she. It was appreciative of that, at least. Then my favorite story of the week happened Wednesday. When we learned that the New York State Department of Financial Services, that's the same agency that extracted a $425 million

fine for a Russian money laundering scheme from Deutsche Bank, has requested documents from Trump's insurance brokers regarding his possible inflation of assets to defraud insurance companies. That's a crime. The reason this is my favorite story is it has nothing to do with the Department of Justice or special counsel or any U.S. Attorney's Office so Trump can't touch it. Remember when I said he's trying to cauterize all these tendrils from the Mueller investigation by either getting Burman to unrecuse himself or now moving Jesse

Liu over to Justice Department from DC? He can't do anything about this. They have nothing to do with any of that. And we know, I mean, he, this is his way. He can't pardon himself out of it. He can't, he's fucked on this. He's just fucked on this. And he's tried everything to quash the investigations into him, his business, his family, but he has zero muscle over the New York State Department of Financial Services.

And they're a big damn organization. So we'll keep a close eye on this one. They can't indict people, but they can file civil suits. That's how they got the $425 million from Don't You Want Alone. They can make criminal referrals, so put some beans on it. We also learned Wednesday that Trump pressured staff to grant a security clearance to Ivanka Trump. We knew from last week he did this with Kushner, despite saying in January he had nothing to do with it, and Ivanka said in an interview three

weeks ago, well maybe four weeks ago now, saying the president played no part. I love how she calls him the president, not daddy or something weird. We know that House Dems have asked for memos from John Kelly and Don McGahn regarding Trump pushing them to grant the clearances. On Tuesday, the White House rebuffed the memo request. They're just not gonna comply with the request from House Oversight. And we've learned that the House Oversight is probably gonna exercise their subpoena power, which could lead to a court

battle. But Friday, we learned from Axios that a White House source has already leaked the Kellyanne McGann memo's pertaining to Jervonka's clearances before the House the house oversight even demanded them from the white house he they handed them over uh... and we've known for a while there are leakers in the white house that people to pose trump alt-fed employees alt-trot white house staff uh... and

they've leaked a lot to the press to learn their leaking documents related to national security to the house democrats is a whole new ballgame. And I don't know if the White House has to comply with the request in order for a criminal referral to be made. Nor do I know if the leakers could seek protection under the Whistleblower Act from Congress. Though I suspect if they could, the House would advise them on that. It's important to note here that the House could also get these memos from Kelly and McGann

themselves, neither of which are known for their allegiance to Trump. We know McGann has been cooperating with prosecutors. He spent 30 hours speaking to Mueller about the Russia probe. Add this to the pile of scandals about to be uncovered by the House Deppens. It's getting... Let's get crazy. Yeah. It sucks to be Trump right now.

Yeah. Yeah, sucks to be Trump right now. You guys are, yeah. All right. And the Daily Beast reported Wednesday that Alan Dershowitz was accused in open court of participating in pedophile Jeffrey Epstein's famous sex trafficking ring. A lawyer of a victim told the US Court of Appeals for the second circuit that the testimony of other witnesses will show Alan Dershowitz was involved in the trafficking. This took place during oral arguments for a case in the Miami Herald that a case that the Miami Herald filed to unseal documents relating to a subtle lawsuit from one of the victims. Dershowitz

was one of the members of Epstein's legal team that helped broker the sweetheart deal handed down by now labor secretary and then US attorney Alex Acosta. That deal is now being investigated in the house after a federal judge found Acosta broke the law when he gave that deal to Jeffrey Epstein. And it came as no surprise to me or anyone probably that Dershowitz asked last week if the judge could please limit press access to the Epstein hearings. So hats off to the Miami Herald for following this story for so long. That's some really amazing local journalism down there. Definitely. Bloomberg reported Wednesday that despite White House denials that Trump played a

role in the inaugural, he was actually very involved in the planning and specifically a couple events of events that are now under scrutiny from federal prosecutors in response to multiple investigations into the inaugural fund. Sarah Huckabee Sanders said that the only involvement the president had was showing up, raising his hand and taking the oath of office, and that he didn't have anything to do with planning or anything like that. He was hands-off, right?

Tiny Hands-off. But according to people familiar with the planning, Trump had his tiny hands and all kinds of things from allocation of broadcasting rights to procurement of tablecloths. He was like, he's a micromanager and that just makes me hate him even more. Those investigations are still ongoing by both House, Dams and federal prosecutors, including Mueller, and we will keep you posted. The Sarah Sanders ever speak any words that is not just like explaining away Donald Trump. I don't think I've ever heard say anything that's just not of that nature. No, I think that's her whole job. Either that or she says you'll have to talk to private council.

Yeah. What a trip. I can't believe she's still there. Yeah, some people say she's still there because no one else will hire her. We haven't had a press conference in 40 days. So, that's pretty biblical. There are some amazing stories coming to light this week about the woman who owned the day spot in Jupiter, Florida, Robert Kraft and that's the Patriot's owner and 24 others were arrested in a sting operation for getting handies from traffic women. And Julie says you got that story in hot notes this week. Oh yeah. And Jordan, Eric Prince was back in the news this week and you'll be going over that.

And a little bit. So finally, Friday, we learned that White House Communications Chief and former Fox News executive Bill Shine is leaving the White House. So Trump will need a new defense against the Dark Arts Director. That was nice and subtle. And that's what it reminds me of, because if you're ever watch Harry Potter every year, they have to get a new defense against the Dark Arts teacher. Like that's the rotating position, and this seems to be that one in the White House.

He's the sixth communications director, a group that included Sean Spicer, Hope Hicks, and Scare Moogie, the Mooch. So Shine plans to continue in staying in the Trump orbit as a senior advisor to the president's 2020 re-election campaign in recent months. Good luck with that. In recent months, that's run by Brad Parscale.

That guy's going to jail. So anyway, recent months, Trump is with that. In recent months, that's run by Brad Parscale. That guy's going to jail. So anyway, recent months, Trump is complained about his shitty press coverage, and apparently, instead of blaming his own stupid ass, he blamed his communications chiefs. That's why the turnover rate is so high there, and the turnover rate for Trump advisors on the whole is 65%. Which begs the question, if everyone hates you, maybe it's you. You know what I mean? Like people who walk around hate or, if everyone hates you, maybe it's you.

You know what I mean? People who walk around haters, everybody fucking hates me, fuck these dudes, you're a fucking asshole. That is why you have so many haters. Yeah, self-reflection is hard for him to grasp. Oh yeah, and he seeks out assholes too. And then the assholes, even call him out for being an asshole. That's a mega asshole.

Tell ya. It says a lot. Time to take a swim and like you. Alright guys, we'll be right back. Hey Mueller junkies, sticking to our resolutions can be tough, especially when we aren't armed with the tools to mitigate negative thoughts and obstacles that hold us back. And most people who lose weight or try to pivot to a healthy lifestyle fall back into old habits. Because most weight loss and health plans only give you the behaviors and they don't focus on the psychology or the underlying issues that

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[♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ All right, guys, today for Hot Oats, Jordan, you're going to bring back some classic prints. But first, Julie said you have a story about the owner of a massage parlour where craft, the owner of the Patriots and 24 other people received hand jobs from traffic women. What do you've got? What do you got? This is interesting. This is a fascinating thing. This was really interesting. So we've heard a lot about Cindy Yang in the news this week. She's a 45 year old Florida entrepreneur from China who created the chain of massage parlors

where like you said, A.G. the Patriot owner was caught getting, I guess, a grudge tug. I assume. And even though Yang no longer owns the spa craft went to, the other spa's, her family runs have, quote, gained reputation for offering sexual services. And then we found out from the Miami Herald that last month, Yang attended a super

vol viewing party at Trump's golf club in Palm Beach. They even took a selfie together, which is really cute. But the weirdest part about all of this is that Yang runs an investment business that offers to sell Chinese clients access to the Trump family. It's kind of like essential consultants, except this one is just for Chinese people In fact on our company's website, which is 90% Chinese There's a ton of pictures of gang and her clients mingling at Marlago Which implies that she's been having some success and getting her client's access to Trump and gang and her husband started this company It's called a GYUS investments LLC Just really interesting. Why USY-U-S investments.

Oh, yeah. I was wondering how that would be catchy, but you nailed that. Yeah. Yeah. They pretty much started this around 2017, and they describe it as quote, an international business consulting firm that provides public relations services to assist businesses in America to establish

and expand their brand image in the modern Chinese marketplace. That's a really nice way of saying given hand jobs to rich people. Basically, you know, it's fucking essential. I'm consulting here. The firm also mentions that its services include helping their clients make high level connections in the United States.

And the listed activities for clients includes opportunities to interact with and take pictures with the president. And the overall message conveyed by the company seems to be higher-yang's company, and she can get you close to Trump and the US government. And if the pictures are real, then she obviously has been able to at least get them close to Trump, which

is pretty successful, I I guess in her message. Yeah, and that was a really good tie-in, Julie. It is just like essential consulting because he's selling access. She's selling access to Trump. Pretty much. She sells selling selfies. Yeah. By the sea shore.

Yeah. She sells selfies. Sndi Lee sells selfies. She sells selfies by the sea shore. Yeah. Basically, Molly, Zhang Faz had a really funny Twitter thread about this. selfies selfies selfies selfies selfies my love yeah basically Molly uh... junk fast had a really funny uh... twitter thread about this like she posted all the pictures of the people that send you

the or send a yang has taken pictures with and she she listed all the like nicknames she called um... was a damn boguino uh... bingo bongo obongino yeah yeah because of bingo bongo i call mongo boy go that's adorable but yeah he's taking pictures with her Yeah, really strange even a diamond and silk the the weird black Republican ladies

Who are really popular on YouTube and then all these like political figures like down junior and Matt gates Matt gates is my favorite. Yeah, really weird Yeah, and I like how she's like oh you look a little flush there Matt. Did you have a nice time? But we took that photo. Yeah, where's like how she's like, oh, you look a little flush there, Matt. Did you have a nice time? But we need to put that photo. Yeah, where's your get that glow? The cheeks are all red. They're probably gin blossoms, but what about that? Yeah, it would make sense.

It would make sense that. It's real white. Totally. Yeah, and then I think this is about to get blown wide open. Yeah. So we'll find out. And then I think I sent you that article too that they have found that she was supplying traffic to women to Chinese businessmen that were staying at Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort.

And you tell me Trump didn't know about that. Right. So he's a pimp, basically. Yeah. And the sadder reality is it's probably happening at all of those high-end resorts, because that's just a thing that goes with people with money and it's fucking horrible.

And I'm totally fine with it as long as they're not traffic-sex slaves. Yeah, that's what I meant. Yeah, it's the trafficking part, right? That's the problem at least for us. I know that a lot of people have problems prostitution. I do not but that they're traffic that and we were talking about Who was it that was selling Russian women to people in California and taking their passports? Yes, that was in from the book club.

That was one of the Russian mobsters from the, yeah, from the McCabe book club. We're doing a book club. If you're a patron, they're free, Adfree episodes. We're reviewing the book, The Threat. They're fun by the game. They're actually very fun. But there's a lot of interesting information in there. And this just seems to be a thing that these guys do.

And when they bring these women over, whether it's from Russia, Ukraine, Baltic States, whether it's Chinese or Vietnamese, they bring them over and they're usually very young, most of them under age, and they confiscate their passports and they make them have sex with people in order to earn them back, basically.

They earn them back on their backs. Earn them back on, yeah, that, for some reasons, I had a different word in my head, but it was repetitive. But yeah, it's absolutely horrifying. And I know Trump's wrapped up in this, and then we've got the Epstein thing, and we've got the, now we've got this craft thing, and I want to know who the 24 other people were. Yeah, that we're arrested. Totally. They say there might be a name, this is just a theory, that there might be a name bigger than craft involved in all of this. Oh, there is. Yeah. Oh, you think that's the one that would make sense. I think. Yeah. If you don't know that their traffic, can you get, do you get prosecuted for like eating in a bedding sex trafficking? I think that you have to, I don't know. I really don't know how that law works because it would be hard to prove

that you knew the person that you were with was a traffic human. I think that the actual people who organized the traffic ingering probably get the trafficing charges and the people who just took advantage of the services but were unaware, you can't prove that they were aware. Probably just get a prostitution charges. Yeah, because apparently they caught him on video and stuff.

So yeah. All right, wow. So thanks, dude. Yeah, that's a really good reporting. And really a lot to think about. Jordan, what's the latest on prints to pivot? Yes. So Eric prints his back in the news.

He's a CEO and founder of the private security firm Blackwater, just as a reminder. And he's a strong supporter of Donald Trump, who's been wrapped up in a couple of very sketchy meetings throughout Trump's campaign. But of course, he's claimed that he never played any role in his campaign, either official or unofficial. But it would appear that he did, because Prince was the guy who met up with a Russian oligarch, Kirold Dmitriyev, in the Seychelles just days before Trump's inauguration. This is a meeting that has been described by experts as, quote, an apparent effort to

establish a back-channel line of communication between Moscow and President-elect Donald Trump." But now, Prince is facing scrutiny over another meeting that he arranged back in August 2016 at Trump Tower. New York Times reported on this in May of 2018, this meeting was attended by Eric Prince himself, DTJ, George Nader, Steven Miller, fucking Dishbag, hate that guy, and Joel Zamol. He's that social media expert, uh, is really social media expert. And Prince has now said that that meeting wasn't a big deal. It was just a discuss I ran policy, but what's extra sketchy is now after sitting down with a great interview

from he was conducted by Mediasan of Al Jazeera English. His statements are seeming to contradict what he told the House Intelligence Committee back in 2017 about this Trump Tower meeting, or rather what he didn't tell them because Prince didn't tell them about this meeting at all. When he was asked why he didn't tell them because Prince did it tell them about this meeting at all. When he was asked why he didn't mention the meeting to Congress and he was really getting grilled. This guy is a he was just no remorse. Mediason is the man every single journalist needs to interview these guys like this. Yeah and really awesome like no apologies just moving forward with what has been discovered in this case and just unabashedly asking him

these questions. So when he asked him why he didn't mention the meeting to Congress, he said that he didn't remember being asked. But he was asked. He was asked if he had any formal communications or contact with a campaign. And I do believe that this would qualify as such. Then later in the interview, Eric Prince switches and says that he did answer that question actually, but not everything was on the record in the transcript and that they made a mistake

in the transcript. And that was why it wasn't showing up. And then he- Everyone laughed at him. They all laughed at him when he said that. Well, transcripts wrong. The whole place laughed at him. And that he was saying, oh, the transcripts wrong. The whole place laughed at them. And Meta is saying, oh, the transcripts wrong.

OK. Yeah, he first, he says that transcripts is wrong. Then he amends it to say that it was said off the record, that those commasers said off the record. But no members of Congress have indicated that anything off the record said anything about that meeting either. Yeah, no, because if you're asked that and you can't say it,

then you say, I'm not able to answer that question. But when he was asked what he did for the campaign, he said, put up a yard sign. He answered the question. He lied. And of course, the transcript is wrong. Right. And then when he was asked by Mediason,

if he was worried about potentially getting sent to prison by Mueller for lying to Congress, and he said, nope, not at all. Thankfully, Prince was on that list of people that NADLA requested documents from this week though, so hopefully that ought to reveal more. Yeah, you actually said, I've been contacted in nine months. That's because you're a target asshole. That's what that means. They're getting to it. That's what that means. If you were a witness, you'd have been

contacted here in trouble. Yeah. Absolutely. All right in trouble. Yeah, absolutely. All right, wow, thanks for that. And that's a huge story because we had Seth Abramson on here for our 2018 season finale. And I asked all 17 or so of our past guests what they thought the most important story of 2018 was. And he said it was the August 3rd meeting

and that Grand Bargain. So I think we're going to hear a lot more about this. And that's kind of what I hope the Mueller report sort of focuses on is that meeting. We'll see. We don't know what it's gonna say. It's not for sale on Amazon, even though it is. So don't buy it yet.

Yeah, and also Donald Trump Jr. He has implicated so many times in all of those meetings. Yeah, he's at all of them. Yeah, it's like, you know how, this is the analogy I was thinking of when like, there's a comedy competition and you might bring all of your friends or something to vote for you, assuming you still have friends left as a comic, which is very rare. But, but then all your friends and all these different groups of friends are voting number one. But then it's those number two votes that wind up pushing that person in the first place that everybody sort

of is getting. That'll trip juniors is the number two. He's like pushing that person in the first place that everybody sort of is getting. That'll trip Juniors is the number two. He's like the connecting person and all of these stories. And so everybody knows what Jordan is describing is when we have these comedy competitions, they use ranked choice voting. Yes, yes.

So you have to pick your top four and put one, two, three, and four and it is always the number two guy that is the number one person. Yeah, and you're right. He's implicated in so many things. He's number two. Yeah. For sure, giant piece of poop.

He is also Donald Trump number two. Haha. So sorry. Man. What's, uh, we just learned a lot about comedy and footprints. Poop. Did what?

Number two. Oh, yeah, number two. Okay, so enough with the poop. Didn't we say early on when we started those that the whole show was just gonna be about slavery and poop? We did. Yeah, we've been liking on the slavery, which is probably for the best, but the poop, yeah, poop remains. The poop remains. Okay, that's a really, I don't know what episode that was three or something Yeah, we're classier people now. Yeah, I'm out of change We've grown so much All right, so today many of you have asked I got a lot of emails to ask me to go over the 81 people that Jerry Nadler sent letters to

Demanding documents from the House Judicial Committee Judiciary Committee first again if you want to run down of all 81 just listen to the pod from the House Judicial Committee, Judiciary Committee. First, again, if you want to run down of all 81, just listen to the pod from episode 1 because that about covers it. But even though each and every person on that list has been named in our pod, at some point, I wanted to go over some of the more obscure ones for you because no matter how amazing your murder board is, there's just no way you're going to remember who they all are. And I had to look up a couple of myself. So before we jump in, I wanted to point out

that NADLERS requests aren't like the Trump inaugural subpoena, and that they aren't asking for everything ever. As you know, the House Intelligence Committee run by Adam Schiff is focused on Trump's ties to Russia, as I said before, whereas the judiciary is more interested in the obstruction of justice peace and a few other things as well. And this document request is more specifically

for things these folks have already handed over to special counsel or federal prosecutors in state attorneys general. So they should have them on hand already, ready to go. They've already handed them over, and there's no privilege because they've waived the privilege by giving them to prosecutors in any of those other cases. So they have no reason to refuse.

They've already given them over to somebody. So that waves any privilege that they might try to assert. So that being said, here we go. First name on the list, you might not recognize is the number one name, Alan Garten. We added him to the fantasy indictment draft in episode 20. The episode 20 is kind of the pivotal draft

because we got that minority report. Which is yeah, yeah, remember that, which is what Adam Schiff was saying. The Republicans aren't asking for shit and I want follow up documents on all these people and all these entities. And I'm like, well, here's my fantasy indictment draft list. Yeah, the cheat sheet for us. Yeah. The first one. We've got a few cents to check out episode 20.

He we mentioned him there. He's a Trump organization lawyer and he's the chief legal officer there. So all Mueller requests about real estate deals, such as Trump Tower Moscow, or there was a real estate deal between Trump and Putin allies in Latvia, Riga Latvia. They all would have gone through this guy. So he got a letter. The next name that you might not recognize is Annie Donaldson.

She's the chief of staff for Don McGahn, and Mueller has her extensive notes on the firing of Jim Comey, which goes to the heart of obstruction of justice. Another name you might not recognize is Jason Maloney. He was Manafort's spokesman, and he testified before Mueller's grand jury back in 2017.

He's been questioned about Manafort's meetings with Kolymnik, lightly, likely, likely, likely surrounding the allegation that Manifort handed over sensitive polling data to the Russians. So that's Maloney. Then we have John Suboxone. He was the, it sounds like a drug. If you take Suboxone, don't take if you're allergic to Suboxone. You might experience trouble swallowing, sleep apnea, horseshoes.

I don't know. Anyway, Suboxone was the might experience trouble swallowing. Sleep apnea, horseshoes. I don't know. Anyway, Suboxone was the business partner of Peter Smith. And Peter Smith is the guy who scanned the dark web for Hillary emails, and he ended up dying by suicide. See, I did it. And he left a note that said, no foul play whatsoever. That was his suicide note. And Suboxone and Smith were the two signers for the bank account for KLS research. That's another one on our fantasy indictment league. That's the account that had mysterious large cast deposits and withdraws around the time Peter Smith was looking for the Clinton emails.

And Suboxone interviewed with Mueller three times that we know of, so there's him. Then we have Julian David Wheatland and he's a one of the CEOs for Cambridge Analytica. So that's Wheatland in case you're wondering. I know everyone thinks about's a one of the CEOs for Cambridge Analytica. So that's Wheatland. In case you're wondering, I know everyone thinks about Alexander Nick's when we think of Cambridge Analytica. So that's Wheatland. You also might not recognize the name Mark Caralla, but we've talked about him pretty extensively. He's the lawyer that was on Air Force One coming back from G20 2017 when Trump concocted the

phony statement for the New York Times on behalf of Don Jr. number two, saying the Trump tower meeting was about Russian adoptions. Remember, he probably got that from Putin because he had that little secret meeting with Putin at the G20 summit and that might have been, hey, what do I say about this? They're asking about the meeting. I say it's about adoptions. Anyway, Mark Corello quit, right then. He said, I got to get out of here. This is

obstruction of justice. He jumped off the plane. Yeah, we talked about that. You got to have a couple parachutes on Air Force One because of obstruction of justice. I don't want to obstruct justice. Calabunga. Then there's Matt Tate. He's former information security specialist at Britain's government communications headquarters that Peter Smith contacted to find out if the emails he found on the dark web were legit. And I don't know what this dark web is. Maybe I'm too old. I've heard about it, but I've never been on myself. I think it's a made up thing to sell us fraud protection.

Really? Yeah, I don't think it's real. I think it's real, it's just I don't want to be there. Yeah, I, is it like W-W-P? It's like the Matrix, man. You gotta get a know some people to get in there. Oh, yeah, I'm not in the know. Hey, if anybody could hook me up with Dark Web tickets. Let me know.

Dark Web tickets? That's adorable. Thank you. Then there's Christopher Bancroft Burnham there's Christopher Bancroft Burnham. And Christopher Bancroft Burnham, and he's a former Deutsche Bank executive that was one of the seven people appointed to the board of Derapasca's aluminum company after he divested in a bid to get sanctions lifted, which worked. So that's Christopher Bancroft Burnham.

He's a Der he's a Darapaska fella. Then we have Tom Bossert, who was the White House Homeland Security and Counterterrorism Advisor, and I think, and these are beans, that he was too good at providing cybersecurity for things like election meddling. So Trump forced him out. That's, those are

beans, but he left pretty early on. He left around the time Trump was flirting with firing Mueller. So Boser might have some information about obstruction of justice in that vein. Interesting. Finally, there's Tony Fabrizio. We've talked about him before. He's the pollster for the Trump campaign.

He was questioned by Mueller over a year ago, likely regarding the Manafort Kalimnik meetings and potential exchange of polling data that occurred between them. So that's Fab Breezeeo. And anyway, that's it. I went through the whole list. Everybody else we should know. Yeah, those were the more like obscure names that popped out to me too.

Yeah, and of course me being me, if you have any more questions about any of those individuals and you're not getting any answers, you can't find any juice, we're working on putting a database up on our website. It's searchable database. You can pop a name in it. It'll tell you what episode to go to to listen to, listen about that person. So keep an eye out for that. In the meantime, you know, again, she doesn't email Hello, Mola, she wrote, I'm not going to tell you about all 81. That's what we've I've that's like 7,000 hours. You really just have to listen because the stories are so

involved and the threads are too many to put them in succinct little. Yeah, they're so intertwined. You can't just list them. Right. And that's that curatorial journalism that we talk about where we have to frame everything. So that you can put it in context. It's just too much.

That's why the podcast exists in the first place. So have a listen to some of those backup episodes. The big ones were like 6, 8, 12, 16, 24, 32. These are all like 20 was a big one, 20 was a big one because that's when we introduced the whole giant list from the minority report. Yeah, episode two, the Magnitski Act, that was a big one. The first one's adorable, because we're like, Flynn is going to get indicted tomorrow. And Jr. is going down.

Yeah, so make sure. So make sure. Yeah. Yeah. Again, sorry about the sound quality. This podcast was started on a whim. The week I thought of it in my kitchen with microphones that come in Cracker Jack boxes.

So be aware of that. And we were all just learning how to edit. We do our all of our own editing and all of our own sound production. We do our all-around editing and all-around sound production So we were just learning that we're a little bit better at it now We still have much room to improve because everyone does but yes bear with us on the sound quality on those early ones Thank you so much anyway. Those are the names you might not recognize among the letters sent out by Nathanaur on behalf of the Judiciary Committee everyone else on the list like like I said, we've mentioned multiple times. I'm glad to hear from you guys, and I'm thankful that you had recognized because you guys had put out a lot of tweets. Like when that list came out, we had a lot of listeners saying, thanks to Mueller. She wrote, I know who all these motherfuckers are.

So I don't know what good that does you unless you have some weird trivia night at a pub near you. That's a great idea. Mueller trivia night. Those are our lives. If you're a bar owner, you should do that. Those are our life shows. Yeah. I don't think it would work out well, though, because I've been to a couple of,

I've been out at bars a couple of times when Roger Stone was on there, and everyone's like, who's that fucking guy? And I'm like, oh, OK. Not my crowd. Yeah. trivia wouldn't work well there. I'm actually still surprised by how many people don't know who the major players are in this,

and I don't know. We'll see how it goes down. But thank you guys so much for your votes of confidence. We really appreciate it, and we'll be right back. Hey, Mueller junkies. Mueller's she wrote is brought to you by Skillshare. Skillshare is an online learning community for creators. With more than 25,000 classes in design, business, tech, and more, you'll discover countless ways to fuel your curiosity, creativity, and your career. Take classes in social media marketing, mobile photography, creative writing, film, or even illustration. So whether you're looking to discover a new passion, just keep going with your lifelong learning goals, or start a side job.

Skillshare is there to support your goals in lifelong learning. I recently took an organization class on Skillshare because I have a tough time managing my calendar with my day job, the podcast, comedy, the upcoming tour. And so I really needed some tools on how to manage my calendar. And I took this class, the interaction felt really personal, and I was able to come away with a ton of information on improving my time management skills. So I absolutely love the interface,

and I can't recommend it enough. Jordan, you took a class, right? Yeah, I did one called Do Things Tell People, the power of personal branding. And that was good for me because that's such a big part of the industry that we're in, and I have a hard time sort of. I feel weird posting about myself kind of, because I don't know how to do it or where to start. And yeah, that's such a big part of the industry that we're in and I have a hard time sort of I feel weird posting about myself kind of because I don't know how to do it or where

to start and yeah it's just nice it's it's pretty simple you do stuff and then you tell them about it yeah and I'm going to start looking for a class on there I think they have a couple on on not just branding yourself but like saying nice things about yourself selling yourself because I have always have a hard time writing bios and we have to write them all the time so that's something else I want to look into. So, anyway, guys, join the millions of students already learning on Skillshare today with a special offer just for our listeners. You get two months of Skillshare for free. That's right, Skillshare is offering Muller Sheet Road listeners two months of unlimited access to over 25,000

classes full-free. So to sign up, go to Skillshare.com slash AG. Again, that's Skillshare.com slash AG to start your two months now. One more time, Skillshare.com slash AG. You'll be glad you did. All right, you guys ready for sabotage? Yes. All right, this week's sabotage is brought to you by the over 550 registered LLCs owned by Trump in the Trump Organization, none of which he really divested from when he took office as most presidents normally do. For example, Jimmy Carter sold his peanut farm to avoid conflicts of interest.

Well, now Democrats in the House are debating whether to expand their inquiry into Trump's taxes. As we all know, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez asked a brilliant line of questions when Cohen was testifying publicly to the House Oversight Committee last week. She asked if Trump headed flated his assets to commit insurance fraud, basically. Yes. And then she followed up with an inquiry about how can we determine that fact? Can we should maybe we look at his financial statements and his tax returns

and compare the two and then come and was like, yeah. So that basically, you know, she wanted to look for the committee to be able to assess the inconsistencies between those two documents, right, tax returns and financial statements. And that teed up the finance committee to file formal requests for Trump's taxes to the IRS, which is going to likely hit the IRS in the next week or so. Well now House Democrats are considering expanding the scope of that request to include Trump's business taxes according to a Reuters report released late Friday. This is just last night.

Success against legal resistance would depend on the ability of Democrats to prove a legitimate legislative purpose for this request. As normally you just when you do a tax request you just get someone's personal taxes. But tax experts say that including the business taxes actually strengthens the house argument, because the business returns are more likely to show where the conflicts of interest are. So buckle up for that court battle. I think it's going to be interesting. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's a lot. 500, and I do not know the same thing.

That's about... 550. God damn, that's crazy. 550 LLC is all told, and they all have names like paint colors at Home Depot. Some of the briefs. Beach love. Haha. Alright you guys ready for the fantasy indictment league?

Yes. I'm gonna be a dentist! No it is gonna be okay. I'm gonna be a dentist! I'm gonna be a dick! A dentist! A dentist! I'm gonna be a dentist!

I'm gonna be a dentist! I'm gonna be a dentist! I'm gonna be a dentist! I'm gonna be a dentist! I'm gonna be a dentist! I'm gonna be a dentist! Okay so it's cooking be okay. Just calm down. I can't calm down, I'm gonna be inside. Okay, so it's cooking up. It's getting cookie in here.

And as I've said before, in case you're wondering, what say Mueller hands off all these tendrils, all these cases to all these different places, whether they be US attorney's offices or main justice, those cases that continue on will count towards this fantasy indictment leave because they were born out of the Mueller investigation. So whether they come from Mueller or the Southern District of New

York, Eastern District of Virginia, if they're somehow related to Russian collusion or the Mueller investigation or anything that sprung from it, like the inaugural investigation or all that counts. So keep that in mind as we go. And I picked last week first. So Julie, so you get to pick first this week. Okay. I'm going to do Weiselberg. Okay, so that's Alan Weiselberg, the guy who got limited immunity. Yes. The guy CFO for Trump or Greg Weiselberg. All right Jordan.

I'm doing Eric Prince. No. Good stuff, man. I wanted him to. I'm gonna do a sange. Nice. Nice. Nice. Jalisa? Corsi pleadil. He might be one of the five guys that Caputo was talking about.

Oh. Yeah. Interesting. Corsi plead. All right. Jordan. DTJ number two all right now I'm gonna go with wiki leaks I'm stacking the deck on the zonge this one yeah smart I'm gonna do Brittany Kaiser all right CEO of cam Anna one of the many Brittany Kaiser, Jordan.

Felix Sater. Good one, because he lied about Trump Tower. Let's see. Kush. Jalisa, Trump and Angrel. Trump and on girl? Trump and on girl? Yeah. 58th presidential inaugural.

It's weird, I guess he's the 44th president, but that's the 58th inaugural. Oh, yeah, because the president is super strict. Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah. He's still having an inaugural in his office. That at math is what that is, yeah. Jordan? Uh, super seating stone.

All right, I'm going to go with AMI. One, two, three, four. One more, Jaliza. Ooh, I'm also going to do Trump org. Jordan? George. Um, how about... Bannon Pleadiel. Ooh. All right, that leaves me, and I'm gonna say Dylan Howard.

I'm in case you're wondering, that's the other guy from AMI. Nice. All right, that's it. That's fantasy and nightmare league. So it should be interesting. I'm not sure. I... There were rumors swirling around Twitter, Twitterverse, and a couple of sources on the ground at DC saying that this yesterday last Friday, like 12 and diamonds were going to drop and I wasn't feeling it, so I didn't say anything and, you know, I kind of looked to get your hopes up falsely. Yeah, they're speculating Ivanka, apparently, but I don't know what that was based on besides Twitter. Yeah, I could have been the Azerbaijan hotel shit, who knows? Maybe the diamond's money laundering thing that she did with her jewelry. She's been all over the place

But anyway, yeah, so I know I don't know if we're gonna see any we've got John Kelly is saying there'll be more indictments coming out Before the Mueller probe is over. We've got people saying there aren't this just shows that with the experts disagreeing that no one knows what's going to go on with the Mueller report. So trying to speculate is a little weird. If I get clues, like if a grand jury meets on a Thursday or something like that goes down, I might be like, I feel so uncommon. I feel a felony Friday. Right.

But other than that, we just kind of have to wait and see. So, hmm, patience. All right, guys, this time for the interview. So joining us for the interview today is MSNBC Justice and Security Analyst, former director of the Office of Public Affairs for the Department of Justice, and partner at the Management Consultancy firm, Viannovo LP. Please welcome Matthew Miller to the show. Matthew, thanks again for coming on Muller She wrote. Oh thanks for having me. So I wanted to talk to you today about the sentencing of Paul Manafort this week.

That was kind of the big news and we don't really need to recap for our listeners all the everything that's happened so far because they're all really caught up on the back and forth sentencing memos. So let's just start off with the sentencing hearing Thursday and I wanted to get your top line take on the first of all the fact that Manafort spoke and then also what he said. You know in some ways what he said was what you would expect from a defendant at this stage of a trial and sentencing they often come before the court. They usually speak and they often kind of throw them so on the court's mercy, talk about how painful this has been and begged for mercy, which he did.

But the part of it that was so unusual was the fact that he didn't express any remorse or really take responsibility in a meaningful way for his crimes. And whether that was just because he didn't want to further humiliate himself that way is too, that he could bring himself to say that more, because he kind of wanted to hold out

this thin read of hope to the president who might be considering a pardon, kind of saying, well, I never quite admitted to doing this. I signed the documents. I signed the plea documents in DC, but I never stood up in court and took responsibility. Maybe you give the president more of an excuse to pardon him. I think it's hard to know the answer to that at least yet.

Yeah, and Judge Ellis even mentioned that in the hearing. He said, Manifort, you're expressing zero remorse here and you're getting zero credit for cooperating, zero credit for accepting responsibility. But then on the flip side, he started to say things like Manifort had led a blameless life except for these crimes and I was wondering what you thought of that. You can say that Manifort had never been convicted of a crime before now. That's an appropriate thing for a judge to say. It's a appropriate thing for him to consider in deciding on what the

sentence ought to be. But to say someone that that proper thing for him to consider in deciding on what the sentence ought to be, but to say someone that spent his life working for foreign dictators who had admitted to Congress back in the 80s that he had used influence peddling to get $40 million out of the regular administration to build a housing project that said he wanted to develop. Someone who, you know, if you look at any of the information in the public record, really had at the minimum sort of skated very close to the law for a long time before, you know, embarking on this 10-year crime speed, that led him to be indicted into death-tricks and could guilty in one. Blameless was, I think, kind of an outrageous thing for the judges

to say about Paul Bantanford. Yeah, and not only that, not only did he say, you know, he's led a blaneless life and all this other stuff. And his daughter, Manafort's daughter doesn't even agree with that. But he then was talking about, okay, do you remember when Manafort's lawyers turned in this, their response to the sentencing memo saying, hey, there was no collusion. None of this would have happened if it weren't for those meddling special counsel people, and he would be completely a free man. And none of these crimes would have been prosecuted if they had just stuck to the Russia collusion thing.

I think they said no collusion, like 20 times in that document. But then Ellis kind of paraded that in the hearing, saying, I just want to go on the record saying that there this is not about there's no crimes here about russian collusion why would he do that uh... i you know i i i think well first of all let me talk about the manifords of lawyers why they put that in

the the the the the the the the the thing is clear for them they're looking for a part of their parity the president language because they want the president to get the maniforder part to part for the judge to do it though i think only it the only thing i can figure is it show it demonstrates again this hostility he had towards the special council and towards this case from the beginning he showed it in the pre trial proceedings he showed it trial and he showed it again uh... yesterday and it just it doesn't make any sense for him to say,

no collusion. Well, obviously, what it was at stake here, also there was no murder. There was no forgery. That doesn't mean the crimes that he charged, it was charged with, and ultimately convicted of, weren't serious crimes. They obviously were.

Yeah, and there were some people actually, I guess, looking for a silver lining, suggesting that Judge Ellis might have done that, mentioned the no-collusion thing, to draw a clear line between these crimes and crimes of collusion to kind of clear up any questions about double jeopardy. But that seems like a stretch to me. Do you think it's... I'm kind of with you, it's probably because Ellis was just not fond of this case from the beginning.

Yeah, no, I don't think that's what it was. I have a hard time figuring out what he would be doing to try to head off double jeopardy. If he gets charged with other crimes, they're going to be tried based on the evidence. The judges comments aren't going to have any to do with it. I think it was just the judge really showing, again, anger and hostility towards the defense and just too much sympathy to this defendant who I think, you know, this judge looks at and sees, you know, a version of himself, another kind of, you know, powerful, older white man. And unfortunately, those type of defendants get better treatment than other defendants in our criminal justice system.

Yeah, a lot of folks are calling this 47-month sentence, which is not even four years, and he's probably, I think he's getting time-served, that they're saying it's a miscarriage of justice because it sends the wrong message to America about our justice system when you consider the difference between how these white-color crimes are prosecuted or not prosecuted, but at least punished versus street crimes. And every day common people, and there have been a lot of different examples put out on Twitter about folks who have done far less and served far more time. And I was wondering what you thought of this, of the message that that sounds about our

justice department or our justice system. I think it's heartbreaking, but it's true. Our criminal justice system treats certain crimes by certain defendants less seriously than it does. Other crimes by other defendants. And what that means, just to put a five point on it, is that people who commit white collar crimes are treated less harshly than people who commit other crimes.

And I'm leaving violent crimes out of here for a minute, because you can make a case of violent crimes ought to be treated by the suggested system more harshly, but people that are convicted of drug distribution and especially minorities who are convicted of drug distribution just get harsher outcomes from the criminal justice system then white defendants and especially white powerful defendants. It's a day and unfairness white, powerful, the benefits. It is an unfairness, the benefits system for years, and there have been some improvements, but it's still just dramatically unfair, and the heartbreaking outcomes all the time. I agree, and it's tough over here on this side, because part of my job or part of my

mission is to find silver linings and kind of hold up hope for the justice system. I'm having a hard time finding a silver lining here. So maybe we look toward next week because we know Judge Jackson, who isn't as fond of Manafort, will sentence him in the DC case on two counts there. And there's a max of five years, I think, for each count. And first, he only got two counts and he presumably would have faced more charges had he not struck a deal, which he totally blew up on his own. So I was wondering if Judge Jackson can take those additional crimes that weren't charged into consideration when she sentences him next week.

No, she can't do that, but what you can do is if you look at the two counts for which he was charged, they sweep in a lot of conduct, especially the first count, the conspiracy to defraud the United States, it sweeps in. Basically, everything that he had initially been charged with in DC. And I think what she'll do is look at that and say, look, the statutory maximum here is 10 years. And she has two things to consider.

One, should you give them the full 10 years or something less? And two, and this is really important, should she let the charges in DC run consecutively to his Virginia sentence, maybe run after, tacked on, or should they be concurrent? And I suspect, given both the seriousness of this product,

and the light sentence he got in Virginia, she'll consider all that, and we're gonna see a much different looking outcome. Yeah, and I do also wonder if the light sentence or the lenient sentence also makes it more difficult for Trump to pardon Manifort of these crimes or I mean, not that Trump ever pays any attention to anything that, you know, that might have consequences or not, but I think it might make it a little more politically difficult for him to pardon such a light sentence. Um, yeah, although by the time he takes the action he does, we'll have, we'll see what

the full sentence looks like when he has both on top of them. I agree that it is politically very risky for Trump to do this, but I would add, you know, a full pardon is not his only option. He could commute his sentence, he could reduce his sentence, you know, like he could reduce his sentence to a year or six months or time served, or, you know, or completely wipe out the conviction altogether with a pardon. So he does have some options added to his proposal. But, you know, doing that, heading into a re-election is in some ways a foolish thing, but in other ways, it sends a message to other defendants and, hey, just keep your mouth shut,

make it through, and at the end of the process, I'll be there for you. Yeah, and we don't really know what is a mistake by this administration, because I think he's got this base that just doesn't go anywhere. And you were talking a little bit earlier about base that just doesn't go anywhere. And and you were talking a little bit earlier about the consecutive or concurrent sentencing coming up next week with Judge Jackson. And we know that Mueller, he reserved the right to request consecutive or concurrent sentencing, but he didn't do so in the last sentencing memo. So like you said, I think maybe that lowball sentence from Ellis does leave room now from Mueller to either ask for consecutive sentences or for

Judge Jackson to go that way. Yeah, I think that's right. The sentence in here and I think is on Wednesday and it wouldn't be surprise. I wouldn't be surprised at all if when Mueller's team probably Andy Weissman comes and argues before the judge. That's what he asked for and I will won't be somebody. She may not give him the full 10 years. Maybe it's seven or eight or something, but I do think it'll probably end up running consecutive

to his Virginia sentence. Yeah, I sure. I hope so. And do you think Mueller could add any charges between now and next week? I mean, either the any crimes of collusion he didn't charge if there are any or those 10 counts from the Eastern District of Virginia.

The jury was hung on. I mean, he reserved the right to retry those if he wanted, but I guess that would be retrying and different. Yeah, I doubt he goes back on the Virginia case. And if he has some other charges that is back pocket, he could bring those now. It seems more likely to me, though, especially if Maniford gets the serious sentence in DC, given that he's 70 years old, let's say he ends up with 11 years total or something. My guess is that they're probably done with them.

Yeah, and of course, none of it would matter if Trump pardons them. But like you said, there's other options too. It could reduce his sentence or commute his sentence or give him time served. But I hear, tell this week that the New York State Attorney General is preparing charges now against Manafort, and as we know, at least the tax crimes don't fall under that double jeopardy problem. And maybe even the Virginia AG could bring similar charges. I mean, how do you see this playing out in the end?

Because over here, we all think Manafort should spend the rest of his life in jail. I suspect the prosecutors and Virginia and New York are going to do now what prosecutors often do, which is watch and see what other law enforcement agencies are doing, watch and see what kind of sentences come down. And they're also going to take into account the statute of limitations you can see, maybe, you know, everyone just wait and deal with Manafort later unless the statute is going to run in either of those jurisdictions. I wouldn't surprise me at all if New York in particular,

who's where the prosecutors have seen to be very aggressive when it comes to looking at Manafort, wouldn't surprise me if they file charges and bring up the trial just as a failsafe to tell the president, look, your pardon, we'll only do so much. Well, wipe out the state crime. president, look, your pardon will only do so much. Well, why about state crime? Yeah, well, here's hoping.

And thank you again so much for joining us today. And we're excited that you're going to be joining us live on stage at the Bellhouse in Brooklyn on March 30th. So, and I think our other guest actually is Andrea Chalupa that night. So, we're looking forward to seeing you then. Great, really looking forward to it. All right, well thanks.

Everybody, MSNBC Justice and Security Analyst and former Director of Office of Public Affairs for Department of Justice, Matthew Miller. Matthew, thanks so much again for coming on Mueller, she wrote. All right, guys, that's our show. Please visit our website, mullershearote.com for all of our latest tour information. Thanks again to Matthew Miller for coming on the show.

He's so great. Oh yeah. And he's going to be joining us live in New York, March 30th at the Bellhouse in Brooklyn. So we'll make sure to put the Minneapolis link up there when we get a moment. Jordan, you can make sure that happens, right? Definitely. Cool. And there's going to be VIP tickets to our long cocktail meet and greet before reception. Hi, we can say hi and stuff. I don't know who the special guests are going to be yet, but we'll keep you posted. Join us for our midweek episodes Wednesday nights. They're ad free, they're full-length, and they're for patrons. So if you're not a patron, hook it up, three bucks. Also check out the MSW Book Club Thursday nights. We're currently reviewing the

threat by Andrew McCabe. Excellent book so far. The audiobook is narrated by him, which we love, so you can check that out and listen to our episodes that kind of talk about the book and how it worked out. I like it especially because I feel like with everything that we know and everything you guys know as Mueller junkies and everything that Jordan and Jalice know, that when things come up in the book, especially things that tied to other books we've read, like Russian Rule Ad, or the Jim Comey book, or they tied to other stories that we've done or covered,

it's like all this kind of neat, we get to connect all these dots. So it's not just a book review, we don't just go through what the book says, we have more in-depth discussions about the relevance, and we try to frame it in certain time periods and how it affected other things. It's just, it's a lot of fun

and we're a little bit looser on that one too. So, yeah, I'm good to point. Fun, fun. And we can't wait to see you guys on the road. And yes, we will be releasing those live shows as episodes, so you will be able to hear them, provided nothing goes wrong with recording them. I wanna put that caveat out there.

Live sound is not always your friend. But anyway, we love and appreciate you all. Please subscribe if you haven't. We will see you Wednesday night for the midweek episode. Do you guys have any final thoughts? No, I like so. Yeah, just thanks for ever making our Wikipedia page. That was really cool.

I don't know who did it. Oh, we're on Wikipedia, no? Yeah, yeah, because it's hard to do that like it's hard to make a page You're gonna like go through this weird sandbox system. It's like the dark web. It's confusing to me So it's on the dark web. Yeah, someone made a page for us though like yeah, and it's really cool So I wonder if somebody on the dark web has our emails Well, certainly I think I'm so confused about where the dark web is. I don't understand it either Yeah, how do you even get to it? I don't know. I think it's so confused about what the Dark Web is. I don't understand it either. Yeah. How do you even get to it?

I don't know. I think it's where Momma lives. Oh, that explains a lot. Al Gore knows. Al Gore knows. He invented the internet. The Dark Web, is that just where you buy sketchy shit? You can buy organs in here. It's crazy.

Okay, so it's like identities. Hilarious emails are there. It's everything on the internet. Yeah, which doesn't belong the dark web though I think you have to have a special dark computer Like how do you get that? It's tricky man. That's why I was like it's maybe it's not WWW. Maybe it's like WWX dot something like there's just some I don't know I got dot fart. I don't know what it is It's scary. It makes me think about how Mark Zuckerberg always

covers up his webcam because he knows people in the direct web are always watching and whatever. And I wonder if the splash page just looks like the upside down from Stranger Things, like it's all creepy and there's cobwebs and the dank and sort of swampy. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. And then you just see like a file, a box of emails floating in the swamp in the distance and you have to somehow code

your way to it like hackers, the movie, not just hackers in general. Right. You know, mess with the best, I like the rest. Anyway, dark web, if you have any insights, please let us know. Hey, does that, but Muller, she wrote a lot of... Yeah, let us know hit us up at muller she wrote yeah let us know for being dramatic on twitter send me a link organs

between the link uh... to the dark web or you know explain it to me hello at muller she wrote i'm interested in what it is i suppose i could google it but i bet i would not get the right information it's right what happens if you google the dark web they want you to google it they won't show you the real i think you're right. Momo shows up. I came shows it. Oh, no, that's I don't think he's dark He's he's on the good web. Yeah, yeah He's the cop where he's on a cop anymore actually well once a cop always cop right good point all right guys Everybody please be kind to each other. Thank you for being patrons and thank you for listening.

We will see you next week. I've been A.G. I've been Julius A. Johnson. I've been Jordan Coburn. And this is Muller She wrote. Muller She wrote is produced and engineered by A.G. with editing and logo design by Jelisa Johnson. Our marketing consultant and social media manager is Sarah Least Diner and our subscriber

and communications director is Jordan Coburn. Fact checking in research by AG and research assistants by Jolissa Johnson and Jordan Coburn. Our merchandising managers are Sarah Least Diner and Sarah Hershberger Valencia. Our web design and branding, our by Joelle Reader with Moxie Design Studios, and our website is mullershiroat.com. [♪ Music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing, music playing Season 4 of How We Win Is Here For the past four years, we've been making history in critical elections all over the country. And last year, we made history again by expanding our majority in the Senate, eating election denying Republicans and crucial state house races, and fighting back a non-existent

red wave. But the Maga Republicans who plotted and pardoned the attempted overthrow of our government now control the house. Thanks to gerrymandered maps and repressive anti-voter laws. And the chaotic spectacle we've already seen shows us just how far they will go to seize power, dismantle our government, and take away our freedoms. So, the official podcast of the persistence is back with season 4. There's so much more important work ahead of us to fight for equity, justice, and our very democracy itself.

We'll take you behind the lines and inside the rooms where it happens, with strategy and inspiration from progressive change makers all over the country. And we'll dig deep into the weekly news that matters most and what you can do about it. With messaging and communications expert, co-founder of Way to Win, and our new co-host, Jennifer Fernandez and Kona. So join Steve and I every Wednesday for your weekly dose of inspiration, action and hope. I'm Steve Pearson. And I'm Jennifer Fernandez-Ancona. And this is How We Win.

The S-W Media.