James Bonding - Die Another Day with Andy Secunda

Episode Date: October 4, 2023

Friend of the show Andy Secunda joins Matt and Matt to dissect the wonderfully diseased corpse of Brosnan's last outing as Bond. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Womp it up, womp it down, get yourself to Womp Town. Matt and, Matt, Matt, James Bonding Podcasts. Uh, welcome to James Bonding. I'm Matt. I am also Matt of the gorely variety. Oh yeah, I'm Matt Myra. Joining us today is a special treat for all of you. You clamored for him. That's right.

I don't know that that's true. One of our most popular episodes of all time. Is it the top? No. That record is held by James Bladen, I believe. Who was going to be on today? He was going to. Now, what was his episode?

Cold opens ranked. Oh, sure. I think I angled for that because I had a feeling like that one's going to be the top one. I want to be in the two top ones. and they won't be able to distinguish whether it's me or the topic. Well, I think we're pretty sure it's the content. So on Andy's episode, we ranked all the songs of James Bond.

I believe that's still available. If not, it's on Stitcher Premium. It's Andy Secunda, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome back to the show. There he is. Be back. Andy, for those of you who aren't familiar with Andy, he's a wonderful improviser, writer, director, producer, all kinds of things.

And he's also my co-host on Star Trek, The Next Conversation. By the way, we're in the middle of the second terrible season of Star Trek's The Next Generation. And Matt invited me, Matt Meyer invited me to be on the bonding podcast. And I was so excited. I was going to be like, oh, this is going to be great. I'm going to take a break from these terrible, terrible Star Trek episodes we're waiting through to enjoy any of the number of bond films. I love so dearly. And it's dying of a day.

And we gave you this lemon. Had you seen this before? I have, yeah, I've seen all of them, but I definitely, I think I only saw it once in the theater, and I was like, oh, Jesus. Yeah, once in the theater is enough. I remember seeing this, I think, in the theater, I'm pretty sure, and just feeling like, how can they charge money for this other than that they spent so much money and even- I can't believe you just said you think you saw this in the theater.

I did, I did, because I know that Tomorrow Never Dies is the only one I haven't seen in the theater since I started going to the theater. Matt, I know, I know how much you love it. So I've tracked out a 35 millimeter print and I'm renting out of theater. That I would do. I would do. I would. I think you're presenting it right now.

Yeah, I wish. If I'm making noise, I apologize. That's all right. That will happen a lot. This is going to be the downside of me having a mic stand. I'll play with it the entire time. So this is Pierce Brosnan's last foray into the Bond films. And this is the second and last one we're going to cover this go-round.

Second to last, Braznan. Second of last, well, if we still have to do, World's Not Enough, which is in the middle of Tomorrow Never Dies and Diner the Day. And I just have to say, I feel for Pierce Brosnan throughout this movie. The fact that he's in it. Well, I feel for everyone in this movie, specifically Judy Dench and Rosamond Pike, who are still turning in really worthy performances that feel out of sync with this movie.

Yes. Because... She really dench especially. It's astonishing how she escapes the terribleness of this film. Did she rewrite her own dialogue? It's literally the only scene that doesn't have pun answered by pun, by metaphor by pun. I'm not going to say that. So you can do what you want.

When you say action, I will speak, but it won't be the Pablam written on this page. I did some research about the relationship of Britain to... to North Korea, and I'm going to incorporate some of those details. Something inches closer than what you have here on the page. This movie, you know, I always, here's what I'd like to say, off the bat. This movie always gets a bad rap for the invisible Aston Martin, and that is the least of its problems. I agree with that. Or you may be generous.

It is among the many problems. No, but I feel like what everyone always says is like, ugh, have an invisible car. That's when I was out. Like, that's sort of the thing everyone points to in this movie. That's true. When in reality. You saw a lot of stuff to step off the boat before you got to the car.

Step off the surfboard. Surfboard with the weapons. The thing I do like about this movie, though, is that every time I see it, I am still somehow surprised at how bad it is. Like, it is never... How many times have you seen it? Oh, I don't know. I've probably maybe seen this one like 10 times maybe.

Really? Well, just, you know, like. You got it. It's on. I can't count how many times in my life. Well, probably 10 where I went, let's go through the Bond films again, you know, whatever. Yeah. With friends.

Yeah. You know. And then sometimes you watch this one just because I've seen the other one so many times. Here's one that I haven't seen as much. Right. But I still, I still, I'm sorry, this is controversial. Would put it above like that tomorrow never dies just because it is. is surprising it how bad is it at least surprising.

You are crazy. Tomorrow never does is the Michelle Yowahua. Yeah. Because there's like it has, it's so bonkers. This movie's horrible. But at least it's like, whoa. I can't believe what is going on. And I don't mean to attack you mad.

I'm sorry. Which one is the one with the remote controlled car? That's tomorrow never does. Yeah. That is. I feel like to me that's more offensive than the invisible car because it's the The only purpose is to we could sit in the backseat. I'm sorry.

Exactly. Hang on. This is at least a cartoon. Hang on. Yeah. This car, he controls with the key fob by pointing a laser at it and moving it as he wants. So that is not weird to you guys? You guys are okay with that?

No, it's weird. It's just this movie. This movie actually is a hundred percent a satire of James Bond movies. Imagine if you put, even if you put Mike Myers in the role of Bond, the way they all speak, the secondary henchman is Mr. Kill. The woman is named Mrs. Frost. It's so on the nose that it's totally a satire. I'm not saying that's what they're intending.

But if you put different actors in this role, they would go like, oh, look at this send-up of a Bond film. It's so bad. I was curious about you guys take on that in terms of, there's no question that this is a terrible, terrible film, which I'm sure we'll get into all the details. But are things like the names and the bad choices, Isn't a lot of those things sort of basics of bond?

Yeah. Well, they are so distilled. Yeah. And it's also such a, it's a lazy effort. Yeah, that's it. It's a,

kitchen sink effort. Right. Where they're just like, well. How about this? Well, that's another thing I can't figure out. Was this, were Purvis and Wade under directive to go like,

take it a step farther? Or were they trying to get themselves fired? I don't know. Well, when you look at the early, when you look at the early, story drafts on this. When you look at the early story drafts on this, it's much better. What is it? You've read the early stories.

Guys, I'm going to pull out the notes. Oh, boy. Here, we're back at the James Bond archives. That's right. This is a book, and I was going to say, those are notes you're lying to them. These are, this memo is dated, notes on XX meeting. So this is Bond 20. It's the 20th film. This is from June 5th, 2001.

Okay. All right. That's right, because this came out on the 40th anniversary, I think, yeah. Big, wow. So this is what, they've already looked at a draft, and this is a discussion between the writers and the producers. Number one, we need more of an explanation as to how someone as fantastic as James Bond has kept in a prison for three years. Possibly show him in virtually a box for 24 hours a day, sensory deprivation, show him being a fantastic. Show him being brainwashed, shades of Harry Palmer.

Show it being a Spandau prison-like setup. Bond, the only prisoner. Here's where it starts, I don't know. Spandau Prison in, is it Germany? Spandau Belly. That's the only thing I can think of. Here's where we get interesting. Number two.

Wade is waiting with Falco when Bon returns. Falco? Falco is Mike Madsen's character. Mike Madsen. Have we seen him before? No. No. Because it's treated as though we've seen him before.

See him damned by Wade. There was a suggestion that Falco is taking over for Wade. More explanation as to how Bond can slow his heart. It can be done visually. Oh, that sequence. I'm sorry. He uses traumatic memories that would raise your heart rate to lower his heart rate. Like they show the montage of what he's

thinking about and they're all things that would make you tense. I didn't even put together that that's what was happening. I thought he was just under, are we sure that he's doing that intentionally? Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And it says could it be, I didn't, I thought it was just he had stress and then he happened to luck out. No, no, no, no, he slowed his heart down. And then it says, could it be mentioned by M in the first scene, i.e., how did you just survive type of thing? And he could talk about his slowing heart, right? Number four, M comments humorously on Bond's genitalia, post-medical. Wait, that's something that's in the script notes.

This is in the notes. Like, we need that or that? I don't know. Would have been like, no. Not going to do that. The North Korea freelancers who attack in the elevator were sent by General Moon. Okay, so these are notes on an existing draft. Yeah.

Okay. Why is Zau at the clinic when Jinks hits it. He was there to, for the change. Jinks was only there to kill the doctor and take records and diamonds, i.e. cover Graves' tracks. So in this

version, Jinks Frost? No, Jinks is working with... Under Falco who is the person that is leaking to graves.

So in this movie, there is There is no frost in this version. Okay. Falco's the double-el-el-o. I wonder if Jinks is in on it or doesn't realize she doesn't realize it. Yeah, I don't think so. Did you know? I can tell you why.

Jinks is there to deliver the diamond. She's an unwitting tool of Falco, the Stoge. She is a double-O- mopper-upper-upper. She has her suspicions that all is not right as early as Iceland, question mark, question mark. Falco is possibly after Bond. is the CIA monitoring equipment that spies him in Antwerp. Falco is with M in the underground station, question wronger. Bond never releases the tension of believing he did release names.

This can be dealt with in a Falco or jinx scene. That I kind of like, where he's not quite sure, did he leak the information, you know, because he was so beaten and tortured for X amount of time? You know, when I said this was better beforehand, I take that back. I apologize to everyone listening. This also seems like garbage.

It is. What the fuck were they thinking? This movie is crazy. So this is the 20th Bond movie. This was like, let's do a big bond. It's a new millennium of Bond. Let's welcome him into the 21st century. And, you know, I think that, I think in that sense,

they were trying to throw everything in they could. Yeah, you're right, especially signified by all the gadgets in the background of Q's Lair and they really are like let's do every bond trope, every big thing and then notch it up a bunch, but man. But from an homage perspective or a Kennedy perspective or what? I think they were trying to homage a little bit. Homage and heightened, I guess, like just celebrate. They were definitely, they obviously are conscious that they're going big with this one, obviously,

but I don't think they realize how. I think they know. they're doing camp, but I don't think they know how flat it falls. The tone of this movie... This is post 9-11. And I think we should... It is, but they were working on it pre-9-11.

I think we should discuss the fact that this is... Because right off the bat in the opening scene when they're surfing into North Korea... That's the... That's... Theoretically, when they're writing the script, that's the first choice they made. That's the first thing they sat down and they went,

let's get him surfing. Maybe it was sort of like, you know, you do your vomit draft. Yeah. We're obviously not going to leave it. With three guys just surfing in North Korea. You know, it's funny you say that. It's funny you guys should say that. Because the last note on this is the pre-titles do not yet deliver the requisite action stunt quota.

And maybe the capture of bond is not yet right. However, this has not been a priority. Oh, that reads that one. It's a great part. At some point, someone went, let's get him surfing and then do it again later in the film. Well, you have to set up that he does have surfing capabilities, right? But they don't. I'm kidding. I know. That's the other thing is I, you know, I can take a little bit of the Bond can do everything and knows everything. But at what circumstance did Bond growing up in England and Switzerland really get a chance to surf?

It had to come later in life. So he's just somewhere on... It is. What is your, you guys' perspective on... It's interesting over the span of all the Bond films when he does run into something that's like, you know, by the end of the sequence when he's facing a villain, I don't know, never say never and never again isn't canon. But like he doesn't know how to play the video game. And then by the end, he knows how to play the video game. Do you like, what's you guys perspective on how they, like, when he's like a good adapter, I'm okay. But I hate when he goes into everything an expert. Well, to that point, Andy, good point.

If that video game shock device was in this movie, Pierce Brosons, James Bond would be the best player of the world immediately. Immediately. Like, he's already, like, the world's greatest sword fighter. Yeah. That, yeah, I guess we get to that scene. But, like, the thing that is the most unsatisfying about the surf sequence is there, that nothing happens. No, it's just a mode of.

It's literally. I said this, I think, last time, they would have been better. serve just scuba diving in. Yeah. Because then at least it's like, oh yeah, it's another, oh, good. It's James Bond scuba diving. We've seen him do that. Yeah.

It is literally a confusing situation. And it's so dark. This is, this, I'm going to say it right now. This is the worst looking James Bond movie. Oh, so terrible. 100%. Yeah. It's either garish or bland.

Yeah. I also say, and I looked up the budget just to see, and the budget is, about, you know, on par with the other budgets, it looks like every scene is just, we have this room, can he walk around this room in some talk to some people? Now we have this room.

Can you walk around this room? Yeah, it is now we have a terrible CG blue screen. That's the thing. I am not entirely sure how much of that blue screen is blue screen and I think that a lot of it is this color correcting that Lee Tamerai was doing.

Because like the color correcting in the speed ramp that he does throughout the film is such a, this is exactly when I was in college and this is exactly when I was editing. This is exactly when I was learning how to use all the software. And everything he does in this is stuff that the shitty students in class would do. Yeah. Because you could. Because File Cut Pro 3 finally had a color saturation filter that you could use and do this weird thing, where if you went too far with it, it would look like everyone was in front of a green screen when in actuality you had actually shot outside in Massachusetts.

It was, this, and I watched the, I think I've watched the behind the scenes doc on this DVD, and boy Lee, he is just, he is delighted by these, these things, especially the speed ramping and especially during the car chase at the end of the movie. But it is so laughable. Also, like, here's another question for you. The credit sequence where they're showing Bond's torture. Yes. It seems, it's interesting to me.

It is a little bland, but it is interesting to me that they're also trying to pack story into that. Yeah, we've talked about this, that it is an anomaly that they do that. You get that a little bit in a little bit. on Her Majesty Secret Service where they're recapping, but never quite moving the story forward like this. Well, I don't know if you want to go up to him being captured. The beauty of this show is that we've all seen it, and the listeners have seen it, so go to where you need to go.

Him being captured, because it really struck me, and it was one of the things that was in my memory, and I don't remember if this was the film or not. has he this is the first time in Bond history has been captured and held that long, right? Held that long, yes.

Well, every other time he's captured to the point of the note were those notes from the producers? I believe so, yeah. Which were I think valid notes. Yeah. He's,

Bond always escapes. He always figures out a way out. And they don't explain why he doesn't figure out a way out, but more to that is... They do a little, they say they kept him on Scorpion then kept reviving him.

Which is brought up and then never brought up again. So then it goes to my second question, which is even as a child, I was watching it and going, well, why is he,

how do they not break him? Oh, you can't break bond for 18 months? Yeah, I know. I don't buy that without some explanation. I don't buy that you were a child in 2001. If I was in college. Oh, no, yeah, that was.

There's two categories of Bond films and then they have a spectrum within and that is actual man and Superman. And this is the epitome extreme end of the Superman bond, where he's just, it's just, he might as well be a superhero. But then the fun of the Superman bond is like, say, Connery or Roger Moore, is that they're having fun. Right.

With Conry, it's a little darker and with Roger Moore, it's a little campier. But it's like, I'm so confident I'm not going to get hurt and everything's going to be okay that I'm enjoying it. And you get none of it. that. No, because Brasman's still playing it like he's really, I mean, in some way, my hat's off to him. Like, he is playing the stakes of the situation. He's trying, but it doesn't fit with the film. Listen, as an actor, he's dealing with a situation where he is having to play a character. And, you know, for all of the Pierce Brasnan and back and forth we do here on the show, I think genuinely we enjoy him as a, as a, he's a great screen presence.

But he is, to his credit, he is trying to act based on what the material they've given him. And the material they've given him is... It's a caricature. It's not a character. Yeah. Especially in this film, nobody's a character. And he's also trying to be a guy who's been tortured for 18 months and has been abandoned by everything he knew. And then he's trying...

He's layering that in his performance. He is. Well, he is. And then it immediately falls into the dumbest movie. And so it's so at odds. It's crazy. Yeah. I actually like that.

some of the middle stuff or the earlier stuff where he goes to the hotel. That's great. That feels like Bond. I like the idea of him being captured, tortured, being traumatized by it in a way we haven't seen Bond do it. But it's not addressed or layered into the film. Casino Real does it and they do it. It's one of the best moments in a Bond character development and history.

And I love it. That hotel sequence in this film was kind of like where all the dark stuff in the beginning is giving way to the really stupid lighter stuff, but it's like that crossover moment that actually everything kind of blends kind of nicely. Yes, but it's on the nose. As soon as you hear London calling, this movie. Oh, yeah, but I'm just talking about that,

like just where he throws the ashtray at the mirror, and, you know, that feels like the heightened, the campy spy level stuff that works, you know, and he knows that guy from Chinese intelligence, and he's getting his tailor there, and it just kind of works. I mean, relative, I'm talking about in this film, this is the high point for me. I don't, that was another scene to me that felt like, it just felt like a terrible set. Like it was just like a tiny low budget set.

I think that's the lighting. How about if he breaks the mirror? That will be kind of interesting. And it's just like so highly lit. It's so lit and, oh gosh. That speed ramping. can't believe they can't say. And they set it up for like a few minutes with all the bullshit espionage talk, like speaking in coded stuff at the concierge desk or whatever it is. Then they go into the room and they have the girl come in and that takes a while. And then he throws the thing. There's no coded espionage stuff in that scene. Isn't when he goes and talks to the manager, there's a little bit of. No, I think that that's being played as that's being played just as James Bond is a frequent guest of that hotel. But he's an unlimited. He knows he's his...

Bond. He doesn't... Bond knows that he is, but... That guy doesn't know that Bond knows that he is. Gotcha. I can't believe with that speed ramping stuff the way they shoot it, that they can't...

Even at the time, have the foresight to see, like, this is not going to be around forever. Why would we put this in a Bond film? It's supposed to be timeless. This is the only one. And then it makes me think, is Spector going to feel that way on that that handheld shot in the beginning?

because that actually is kind of a... For sure. Yeah. But it's not as egregious as that. You know, all these movies sort of date themselves in various ways, but this is by far, we're now 17 years out from this movie, 15 years out for this movie. It feels more dated than... This is by far the most egregious.

Yeah. It's pretty... And I was going to read this quote from Lee Tamurai. Is it Tamahori? I always have heard him say Tamerai. Oh, really? Oh, okay. We had to watch his film in...

college. The once were warriors. Once were warriors, yeah. And that's how they all pronounce it. Okay. So, I don't know. Which is a great,

it's a great tiny film in New Zealand about the natives. And like, I'm going to look up what he's done since. He didn't go right from that to this. I feel like he might have. Here's what he says. I was given a script like a secret agent.

For your eyes only, it said on the cover. The first page read, three men in night vision goggles with body armor and camouflage suits, surf in. And on the largest waves in the world to the Korean coast, I thought, God, this is fantastic. I've got to make this movie. Oh, geez.

Not the first reaction you should have from reading that. Here are his credits. I read it and went, what? 2016, the Patriarch, never heard of it. The Devil's Double. The first film I've heard of is 2007 next that Nicholas Cage movie where you can see the next 10 minutes or something like that. Triple X state of the union dying every day. He did along came a spider as well and an episode of the Sopranos.

Oh, he did The Edge and Mulholland Falls. Oh, Jennifer Connolly's very pretty in that. In the edge. I remember thinking like, why did Jennifer Connolly do this well? We get it, Andy. We get it, Andy. On what Jennifer Connolly should be doing. was capable of what parts she was capable of getting and not getting at that point in her career.

Well, let's talk about this opening sequence. The, oh, so there's a, that's, this is the first time that a bullet goes into the thing, right? Into the barrel. Yes. Yes. Oh, I forgot that this movie got shut down too. It did? Because of an injury.

Whose injury? Pierce Brosnan. What happened? Are we seeing some actual hurt acting and not acting? The following. day the crew were in London in a house in Stoke Newington shooting the scene in Havana

where Bonn meets whoever the hell that is, played by Mexican actor Emilio Shabra hour. That afternoon, Bonn requested a doctor Brasden requested a doctor to attend to set after developing pain in his knee

following a stunt a few days earlier. It's a physical film and you put yourself in the action as much as possible. The knee went. Why? Because I didn't stretch. It's as simple as that. I was running away from all the Koreans. Hopping up. onto a hovercraft thinking I didn't need to stretch and pounded the old knee out.

Brosnan was sent to Princess Grace Hospital in London for an assessment. And then he had to fly back to see a specialist in the UK, in America. By the way, I don't know if this is, if the subtitling was racist or not, but I usually keep subtitles on. And it said when the guards are coming up on the beach, it said, chattering in Korea. as if like whatever it's not important there's just babbling in Korean foreigners are saying

who cares okay yeah the cold open is listen it's very bondy as far as the taking over the guy's identity trying to blow up some people

he's got the exact same clothes as that I was just going to say is that that's not necessary they don't know what the guy's dressed in no but it did and then he takes his second Glass is like, ah, the final touch.

They either, like, reconned this guy that morning as he was getting dressed, and then somehow were able to have the resources to go get me that exact outfit. Or did they plant it on him? Like, that's a whole thing. Maybe he always wears that outfit. Like Einstein, he always picked the same outfit to save space in his brain. And is there a reason why Colonel Moon has all of his sports cars there? Or other than just...

I think he lives at that palace, right? So I just assume they're there. I sort of interpreted them as more stolen kind of corrupt goods to show how capitalistic he was, even though he was. Or are they hiding them with the weapons in the demilitarized zone or something? I don't know. That's a palace? I thought it was just kind of like a bunker. Yeah, it seemed kind of crappy along with an other thing else.

North Korea, what are you going to do? And let me ask you this. So he puts in the C-4, and he puts the diamonds on top of it. What is his plan? What is he trying to do? to do? Oh, I think he's just trying to blow them up, right? He's trying to kill Moon? Yeah. Why doesn't he just kill Moon then? I think he's going to get the, I think he's going to get the diamonds to them. Uh-huh. Exchange whatever the hell needs to be exchanged.

Get back on that helicopter and then blow it up when he leaves. Yeah, is he there to bust the diamond deal or to try to get the, like, weapons out of Moon's. Because the explosion is very small. Yeah, it's not nearly big enough for what it should be. It's just big enough to insert diamonds into someone's face. Exactly. intended purpose. It's more of a distraction. I do, I will say I do like, I do like Bond getting out of that.

Yeah. I do like him like looking around, like clocking everything. Yeah. And then deciding when to blow the diamonds when to take the hell of, you know. It's just the hovercraft chase after it. That's terrible.

Yeah. I mean, you just have to, you're left with not many crafts that we haven't seen a chase in. Right. You're dealing with a James Bond movie. They got to all of them We've been to space

Ice sailing, surfing, and hovercraft But I guess this is what confuses me About the budget being equitable Because it kind of like In watching it I was like Oh, they must have decided that Brasden wasn't as profitable Which wasn't accurate

Yeah, this was a big money A huge movie for them Yeah, they gave this money Less money, which is inaccurate So if you compare this to the golden eye opening That's the one with the plane Him dropping out It was just amazing.

I know. Yeah, but it was a very small plane. Yes. We can only afford a small plane. Not like the giant plane in this movie. But like he drives the hovercraft. They sort of drive through a forest. There's a little bit of fighting kind of thing.

They're driving through a minefield. It's not a forest. It's a minefield, guys. And that's why James Bond can use his Oozie to blow up mines. I couldn't help notice the irony when Colonel Moon's talking about like I majored in Western hypocrisy. And his whole basic thing is like, you West, you're so decadent. But that's exactly what this movie is.

Like, it's the worst sins of Western decadence. There's no substance. It's all form. It is such a, it's such a movie from 2002. It's not even funny. It's more 2002 than 2002 was. I know, but, you know, like if you were... 2002, because I do associate it with the 90s, but the problem with the early 2000s is that

we're desperately clawing on to the 90s. Which was a terrible time in film. If you were asked me to explain 2002 to you, I couldn't do it. But then watching this movie, I would just show someone this and go, here. It still doesn't feel like it has an identity, but somehow that identity sort of shoots through is horrible. I don't know. The diamond guy, by the way, in keeping with the time period, was from Fast and the Furious. Oh, really?

Oh, yeah. When was that first movie? I think that was a year before, a couple of years. Ricky Eune. Let's find out. He's from the first movie, right? He's the bad guy in the first one. He drives the Honda S-2000.

Yeah. Boy, I remember that movie too well. 2001, yeah. So it was the year before, and he was the villain. I think Ricky Eun does a great job. I think he's... Ricky Ewan does do a great job. He's a good, he's a good-looking villain.

I did have a question about henchmen and also, and what you guys' perspective is over the span of henchmen. He's got diamonds in his face. Yep. Then he doesn't get to finish his... Big criteria. Yeah. His gene therapy, that's why his blue eyes.

Yeah. Well, they've tried, yeah. But also like... Why does he stay bald? Is that... I think that's part of the gene therapy. I think that's part of the... They were going to make him bald.

Well, you see the transition faces, right? Yeah. It's going to be turned into a German guy. But, like, was he just the step before they removed the diamonds from his face? I know. We've talked about this. You'd think that'd be first. Because you probably need some healing time.

All right, first thing we got to do is we're going to get these diamonds out your face. Wait, why are you in Cuba? I don't know. I'm just working at this clinic. Why couldn't he be another guy with diamonds in his face? The other thing, the most disappointing...

Okay, there's a lot of disappointing visual aspects of this movie, but I think number one for me is that all of the snow looks fake. Yeah. And the ice, too, so... That's not even glass. The ice...

Here's the... Here's the glaring... The glaring set things that, like, sort of stuck out for me, okay? The... The number one for me is how much of a set the set looked like for the courtyard sword fight.

Totally. The lighting was atrocious. I think it has to be the lighting because I bet you the other sets look that shitty, but if you light it well... I think you may be right. It's so bright and yeah. It really has a background of scenic design, so he's right now. Oh, I guess he's the expert now, Andy.

You don't know, Myra. You don't know nothing. Gorley's doing a victory dance right now. Yeah, no, I agree. The sets are terrible. And that, I'm jumping ahead to the ice castle, but even thinking about the ice castle, it looks small and purposeless in the wide shots. And then in the close shots, when they're kind of going around it and doing stuff,

it seems tiny, even though you're just deciding what the scale is every time you build another shot. Right. Yeah. Why would they make it that way? I don't know. I actually was watching this trying to go, like, let me find some good in this film in some way. And the best I could do was obviously Judy Dench and Ricky Yoon is good. Oh, so my question about that character, I'm sorry.

That's right. I just wanted to say that the score is pretty bombastic, but it's still really good in it. I still really miss David Arnold because he puts some real berry stuff in here. Jinx's intro has such a melodic, sweeping kind of orchestral thing that I really wish they'd bring him back. I, David G. Arnold, a big fan of some of your work. This is garbage. This movie's, there's so much...

But it's sitting to the movie, and it's very... I thought it was pretty good. You didn't like it. No. Which did the previous theme. That was just Shirley Manson. This is as good as good. That was just Shirley Manson.

Yeah, no, I actually, it was audibly... annoying to me, the music. Like I... Well, I mean, it certainly matches the level of the film. Yeah, for sure. It had to. You couldn't... I don't think you could do a subtle score with this film.

It would seem... But it's also so... Again, so of the time the score is. Like, so of the, like... Oh, see, I thought they would go like heavy, Mobe or back to something like, you know, a little bit more techno. Now, he puts elements of that into his score,

but there's still a lot of orchestral stuff. Horns and... Yeah, maybe it's just... just the Moby-ish stuff that I'm hearing and that that is like sticking out of my brain because it really is like the Ice Palace stuff particularly the party stuff it's like really like it's just it it really kills my brain was there a Russian production on this one because or in post on this one because that's what like the clash sound drop and stuff like that feels like is like just put this in Oh, a rush.

And then we'll... Not a Russian. Yeah, I thought you said Russian. Was there a Russian second Union? Did the Russian sabotage this film? We proved collusion between this film and the Kremlin? We might be able to. Just because it felt like they had all this stuff in it and the sound.

Maybe. The music stuff that you're talking about, I think falls into it where it's just like, eh, this will do for now and then we'll fix it. And then they didn't have time or something. Yeah, it could be. Mad and... Mad and... Mad and...

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and find out why Josie's dated so many men with a love of rocks. Give it a listen and make Josie Long your new favorite international comedian. For a free month trial of Stitcher Premium, use the promo code Bond at stitcher premium.com slash planets. Ooh. Did Broznan I did a little bit Looking up on it But I didn't get clarity

Did he Was he like done with it Or were they done with him? Or was it a financial decision? He wanted to do more And they said No, because why They wanted to move in a different direction

I think maybe they had They had recognized their missteps But we've often heard That Broccoli and Wilson Trade off-helming these films Is that right? I wonder if that's real. I have, I don't ever remember hearing that. Yeah, I heard that. Is this something you heard and some sort of club you're meeting at without me? Oh, yeah. Oh, the

Blades literature. James Bond Club. Oh, my wrong. I have a secret podcast where we don't even broadcast. We set up mics and don't record. It's pure art. Could you do that? You ever done a podcast? That wasn't recording. Oh, yeah. Oh, isn't that the worst feeling in the world? That's awful. Hey, guys, if we did a podcast and we only released it to like people who paid a thousand dollars each. Like the Wu Chang plan? Yeah. Yeah. Andy, you're just describing Patreon. Oh, is that what it is? Yeah, you can tear it at levels. We can set it at $100 a month and then they can get a free episode. I'm interested in that.

Let's come up with the concert. All right, Andy, you're our first Patreon supporter. Thanks, buddy. What, no. That's what you said. You're interested in. I'm not going to do an episode just for you. I wanted to be paid to not do much, not pay a lot to hear nothing.

We, uh, I just can't really. come to terms with everything in this movie. It's hard. It's really hard for me too because I love Pierce Brosnan and I, you know, that's my teen years were the Brosnan years. Is he, your guy is Craig, right?

Yeah. And who's your guy, Myra? Well, Craig's the, I can't argue with Craig. Craig is really like Moore. And Connery too. I like so fun. And Connery's the... And Dalton. I like all of them. Because they're, well, you remember.

spreading it thin over all the bonds there. The thing that is the worst about this film, other than, it's the worst film in many ways, but the dialogue is the worst of any bond film hands down. Well, this is the thing I was going to,

this is why I was confused, and I understand now that I missed information because I thought that first conversation seemed, it wasn't an espionage conversation with the hotel manager, but it felt like it. And then... Because of how disjointed the dialogue was.

And then the next The next big sequence is when he talks to the Cuban guy. That's espionage. That's espionage. Like, okay, make sure we're both on the same thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the next thing is when he talks. I love that.

I love that. I love the Cuban arrival. I love that scene. The Delectados. Yeah. What aspect of it? I like that this guy is a sleeper agent who's been in Cuba operating now for 30, well, let's just guess, 40 years. and he has been going about his life

has not been activated in decades and James Bond comes in knows exactly what to say to him and then the sleeper agent is activated so it just has the history of something yeah I think that's accurate but anyway my point is then the next thing is when when Hallie Berry comes out of the water

and I feel like they have a conversation that sounds a little bit it does sound so jilted And I was completely confused. It's because they're doing, they're not speaking like humans. They're speaking in double entendre that responds to double entendre that's so bad that it sounds like a spy code. It makes no sense. Do you love the woman? The woman is my friend.

Exactly. Let's continue. There are many predators around. The predators come out at night. And then I'm like, oh, they know each other. Or she's an agent that they have some association. It's a bad double entendre. And then they sleep together so fast.

And, you know, Bon will see. That I like because if they're trying to set up jinks as the female equivalent of James Bond, then I believe that those two go to bed that quickly. I agree with that. But the problem I have with it is what does he think is going on? He's just thinking, well, I'm James Bond, so she's going to want to sleep with me? Because I feel like it's an interesting question. Which is the whole process.

Like, you know that everyone wants to sleep with James Bond. but this felt like, oh, something else is going on because there's no logical, nothing has transpired that convinces me that those two people would want to sleep with each other other than if they're both agents or if they have a prior history or if something, there's no chemistry and nothing they've said makes any sense. So there's no logical, something else is going on. And then he wakes up and she's gone and I'm like, oh, they didn't know each other.

faith that American audiences or a global audience is, I guess, take a look at two beautiful people on a screen and go, well, they absolutely are going, it's a ticking time bomb before they sleep together. But if that's the truth, and maybe this is the true truth with really super attractive people, they can just go up and gobbledygook, gobbledygook. Yes, I agree. Blubety blue, bluby-boo. All right, do you want to go have sex?

Yes. Like when ugly people aren't around, they just talk to each other. absolute gibberish. Shattering Korean. We both know where this is going to end up. What's the point of even saying words to each other? Barbar, par, par, par, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's go.

Keeper. Frankly, I see even when they're having sex, when she pulls out, what is it, a pomegranate and starts cutting it? That is the same kind of nonsensical, like, well, we're both so hot. It doesn't matter what I do. I know. Yeah. Oh, my God. Maybe this movie's more true.

any of us care to realize. It could be. They're pulling down the, pulling up the curtain. I have a question to pose to you gentlemen about the James Bonds. Now, in this movie, when they get to the fencing scene. Yes. I don't believe that Piers Brasnan can beat this guy. It's in the execution.

It's in a bit of the age difference, unfortunately. But it's just the first time I'm watching Brosnan where I'm like, there's no way this guy can't beat Bond. I agree with us. But what I liked about that. Oh, no, keep going. Well, just, I think every bond. Also, the stunt doubling is preposterous in particular. Every Bond actor has that moment in their run where you go like it's just not

believable anymore where Bond can beat these younger villains. So who is it for, when was it for Connor? When was it for Moore? It might not happen for Laysenbeard Dalton. More definitely had it in Octopussy. There's everything he does and that looks like. But I might even go. earlier, like the hockey sequence and for your eyes only.

Totally. Oh, oh, yes, yes. And is there any before that? You're saying in terms of skill or anything? I would step it back. Whatever. Step it back to Moonraker. Step it back to Moonraker.

Which scene? It's when he's fighting the guy in the glass factory. Yeah. There's like, no, you're just the lumbering that Moore is doing in that scene is just like, ah, I don't, I'm not buying this anymore. There are moments in Spy Who Love Me where I feel like he's still kind of holding his own. Yes. Yeah.

And if you go back to Connery, for me, for me, with a, Connery, it's, it's, by virtue of the fact that he's training with ninjas, it's you only live twice. Like, I'm just like, I don't know, that is, you know, that's why I like so much when you see Bond, like, I mean, I guess the, the quintessential version is, when he's fighting odd job, is just like, he knows he can't win this. Yeah, he has to get creative. He's got to figure out a different way to win this.

Yeah. And with Jaws, and most face-office-offs with Jaws, it's like, he's too powerful. Yeah, they're playing that now. And that kind of ties back to my question about Zau? Is that his name? Yeah. Ricky-Ewn or Graves. Yeah.

Yeah. Zah. He's got the diamonds of his face. He's got the blue eyes. What else is threatening about him? And I feel like that was a pattern after, maybe Jaws? You guys, please correct me. Like, none of the henchmen seem like people to get them.

The physical character. It's the same thing as Jinks and Bond being beautiful. You just take it for granted. It's all shorthand at this point. Right. And that's why it's not working anymore. But has Craig had his moment where he doesn't seem believable? He's definitely better and physically he's more suited.

But there is that moment when they're escaping from Blofeld's Lair, Inspector, where it does feel like he's just not. I think that's post-ACL. I honestly got it. I think that's right after the ACL tour. It must be. That's like his first day on set. That's my honest.

my guess. But they do do the thing when he's fighting Hinks in that train, like the Jaws thing where he's just kind of like looking at him like, oh my God, I got to, he's just kind of fighting. Oh, when he's being turned around when he's being carried, when he's being held by Batista. I like that. I like that play that up. So I think, I think Craig is still hanging in there. We'll see him in the next one. It's really interesting to me, you know, because we had so much distance from Spectre. And by distance, I mean, what, two years now that, um, you guys. When that came out, we loved it. And then you decided.

We loved it when it came out. But I also don't really watch all of it in a while, so I'll be curious when we get back to it. It's like when I think back to the best sandwich I ever had in my life, I had hiked up Mount Washington as a Boy Scout, which is the highest peak in the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the Atlantic Seaboard on the Appalachians. And you go up and then at the, when you reach the summit, it's not like a hike hike well it is trails I'm not climbing anything I'm just walking up trails

but we got there and they made me a bologna and cheese sandwich on white bread with mustard and that is the best sandwich I ever had only because of what I endured previous to that sandwich so the sense of like

why Matt and I liked Spectre so much as we had starved for James Bond movie for a couple years and then we had it we're like, this movie was the best. I love James Bond. Whereas, like, now if you put that sandwich in front of me, I'm like, I don't want that. Although I would take that sandwich right now.

Sure, I'm sure. That sounds really good. Let me show you guys a picture. There's a moment in this movie that if you were to show someone this picture, they would never in a million years say this is a James Bond film. It is a close-up of Graves getting his DNA replacement, but the silver mask with the white like fiber optics coming out of it and in the background

is a cloaked zau that looks like the emperor this looks like something out of Zardaz look at that that belongs nowhere in a James Bond movie or Zows in the background

in a cloak it just looks like some bad sci-fi movie look for that when you watch it that's right it did I think it subconsciously did make me think of Zardos yeah it's just

what when they saw this they didn't at any time go what are we doing? What have we done here? Well, I mean, you know, I texted you. It's so awful. I texted you both the image of Brasen being electrocuted. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What, so he's got, he controls the satellite, but he's also got it built into a, some kind of armature that electrifies people when they come close to them.

Yeah, naturally. Sure. Which was first? Well, it was the, you know, when he says to the guy to ask the guy to finish it. That's right. Yeah, he's like. Oh, you mean Vlad? Vlad.

I like that guy, though. Do you think? I like that guy, too. His haircut is in keeping with Bond. Which one's Vlad? He was like the scientist, weird looking dude. Oh, yeah. Like, he just, he appears in multiple Bond films.

I enjoy the comedic moment of him coming up and saying, he beat your score. I know. Yeah. It is. Hey, boss. Your time. It is. It is.

think of the insanity The only successful comedic moments We go from fucking We go from this This fuck This we go from this Right

This this grave strangling Bond in an electric suit Yeah To this I know Like it is crazy It's nose bleeding He's showing a picture

Of Craig in the bathroom At the opening of Casino Royale That really says The reason why for like all right we're done with brazening we're done with this era yeah but what's interesting is it's not his fault they pierce i love you it's not your fault buddy i feel like the performance is to a certain degree his fault yeah i agree i feel like the script is definitely like you know you can't get over it but uh but he there is no joy coming from this performance at all

nobody nobody is here for love of the game the essential he does not even I feel like Roger Moore was in some terrible bond moments, and he always seems to be having fun. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. The thing getting back to the score, how I was saying, like, if you took that score too seriously for this movie, it wouldn't work. That's a bit of what Brosnan's doing. He is really trying to play this in a gritty way that just, this movie, a lighting alone is the last, the least thing it is gritty. He desperately wanted, he wanted his casino rea.

Yeah. He desperately wanted a down-to-earth James Bond movie. Roger Moore's the only one that got a reset in his run. The resets usually happen after the actor leaves. His goes from Moonraker to Four Your Eyes Only. Yeah. That's interesting. The reset being, we're going to take it more serious?

Yeah, back to ground it. I do wonder what he would have done, what that fifth Brosnan would have been. I think that is the, that was the problem, which I now in the grand span of Bond films that Golden Eye has a lot going for it. But I was, I was, I think I was hoping for a casino royale full on ground bond again reset at Golden Eye. Yeah, me too. And I feel like he did not, they did not do that. He got a reset.

They reset it a little bit. I think a lot. If you look at what was before it, if you look at, if you look at, if you look at license to kill, I mean, they obviously have to snap back from. that. Well, it's like they reset from dark to the best of what Bond does as a trope film. You know, they didn't go gritty, but they went to the best version of a fun Bond film. It'd be interesting to look at who has the best first movie. You know, I mean, we know it's Daniel Craig. Yeah. Like, we get that. But, like, it's interesting because, like, I love Live and Let Die. It might be, because Honor Magic and Secret Service is a fucking perfect James

Bond movie in its own way. And I think the Casino Royale is perfect in its own. way. And I think Golden Eye is perfect in its own way. And I think that Dr. No, obviously, is perfect in its own way. It is interesting when you look at those. And the living daylights, I like more than licensed to kill. Yeah, me too. So I think... And I love live and let die, but I don't know if it's the perfect first bomb movie. I think that's the, that's... I only found out yesterday. I didn't realize that that was the first Roger Moore film. Yeah. Oh, Living Let Die, really? It is a weird run to start with. It's... Yeah. I'm surprised that he survived that... by the way

that run because living let die is crazy live and let die which happens in early 70s Harlem for part of the movie

is less dated than die another day or at least more timeless in some way yeah it is

I don't know how is that I don't understand certainly the characters in live and let die are less dated than a lot of lines that Hallie Berry Hallie Barry

I've said this before and I've asked asked them to take away her Oscar for this movie, which she won while this movie was in production. It is, and I, but you know, it's, things that are recently dated are more glaring than themes that, things that seem now, like, live and let die is basically a period piece at this point. Like, it's, it is for sure. But, Matt, we're almost 20 years out of this. I know, but it's still, it's a, it's a period that we remember personally. And so it's always going to be more jarring to us because we see the flaws in our own persons at that time, you know.

But think about this film. It reminds me actually of watching Diamonds Are Forever. Like, Jinks and Jill St. John both have kind of like an emptiness to their performances. It's jarring and weird and like, and I love watching Diamonds or Forever. I don't know that I'll ever feel that about this, but I think someone in 10 more years will go like, oh, this is bonkers. I love it. About Die Another Day?

Yeah, because they will be 10 years. certainly bonkers. 10, 15 years younger. This is the interesting question. I don't know if they, you know, age always messes with everybody's memories and how old you were when you saw it. But I feel like that is the essential thing that is my perspective about this film, that is the problem, is all the craziest of the Bond films, until you get into the Dalton-Brasnan era, have a certain joy and fun. And even it's like the people making them. And we're like, what if we do this?

Because they were going to these locations and partying. What if there are two ladies that are doing gymnastics and kick the hell out of him? Like, you know, and in this there's like, it's all like, oh, just get to the next scene. Yeah, it's a machine at this point. I will say, though, in regards to Jinks, I think that they, do we have other female characters prior to that, or female sort of sidekicks that are good? Yeah. That are as physically able as she is? Barbara Bob.

So I feel like she's the one that's driving most of the action in this film more than Brown. Oh, they're setting her. Barbara Bach. You mean as a physical, like, fighter? No, I just mean like as a Bond comp and Michelle Yo. Yeah, Michelle Yo. Michelle Yo. Yes, yes, I guess that's true.

And I think, you know, it's always like. But even Michelle Yo is physically capable, but isn't doing a lot of, it didn't feel like she was doing a lot as much as, like. You know what he feels like Jinks is doing her own whole. She is. She is because they are trying to set up a spin-off. Spinoff. Thank God it never happened. Oh, I'd love to see it.

I'd love to see it too. I'd have no desire. It'd be miserable. Oh, you would like see it because it'd be terrible. I'd feel like you could have taken as they take terrible. To Andy's... To Andy's point, that is interesting to think about. You know how we have all these, you know, there's all these women that are spies that are

counterparts to James Bond and then they become love interests eventually to them. Yeah, they get neutered or fixed. have never, and I'd like to see it. I'd like to see a counterpart to James Bond actually be his like partner throughout a movie. Well, I think that's what this is. I think they do pretty much maintain it.

No, no, no. I mean a male. Like a male counterpart. Oh. I know you didn't get that because I clearly didn't say the word. But you sure correct it. I don't know like I had known.

I don't know why you guys didn't warn in my head at that point. That's a really interesting question because I feel like the problem is it kind of gets to something primal about what James Bond is, which is James Bond, the reason we enjoy him is he is the ultimate alpha. Yeah, but like I would love it. I would love it in the next one if they fucking gave Jeffrey Wright the full Felix lighter of it all.

Oh, I always said give him a whole movie. And they actually throughout the movie had to work together. Like that'd be interesting. Instead of like coming and going through the plot to like sort of like give James information, I think it would be interesting to have a buddy cup, Have a Felix lighter be a jinx.

You know, Jack Lord could have pulled it off, except that they wrote him so that the second he sees him, he punches, James Bond punches him in the stomach. That's right. He's done. You get a glimpse of it in the beginning of Golden Eye, because they're two double-oes on a mission together, but you never see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that'd be an interesting shade of Bond to see. But maybe it doesn't work because Bond is so individual. That's true.

So on his own. But speaking of male companionship. We probably talked about this last time, too, but Zao and Moon are clearly lovers judging by that scene where they have a reuniting, like, tender. Oh. Are they insinial? I feel like the director was trying to get to that.

I feel like that was implied. They linger tenderly with each other in a way that feels like they're stopping to telegraph that in a way that also has plausible deniability because it's still 2002, and you can't get away with that in Blockbuster Cinema. Is that true in 2000? well, probably, you know, internationally. I guess if they're villains, I always feel like you can get away with it. Oh, right.

These perverts. I know. Twisted deviants. Of course they come up with a diabolical plan. But it also does highlight to me what I think is one of the most problematic things in the film, which is Zhao, I think, is a good, relatively good character. But Moon is all, and like not just the fact that they, And I wondered if face off was before or after.

It was like five years before. Right. And this is more silly than face off. No kidding, because at least that one's surgical. This one, they're transplanting DNA through the bone marrow. Yeah. But then also his, not just his face, not just his accent. Are they playing, by the way, when you go into the hospital and you hear the English voice,

they're teaching him out of the accent? But his entire manner, a hundred. 100% is different even when he's alone. Yeah, flawless accent. Yeah, and it's like sneering and everything's just completely different. And what's beneath it is completely confusing. Like in terms of his character, I don't, I don't. The graves of it all?

Yeah. Like he's doing it just. You know, all of it's unclear. It's all very like. And he, he sort of, they tried justify as like, I know I only knew you for a short time, but. He was the model for that. Yes.

Yeah. It's like, it seems like weird things to face your whole future life on, even when you're alone. I know. It's, and also Rosamund Pike, who I think is good. Yeah. Her character, she's following him and betraying. Yeah, but why is she? The Brits, why?

What happened? Because she likes to win. They throw in one line that we are. That she helped her win the Olympics. Also, isn't the, like, the, like, the, throwaway, which makes no sense, the throwaway line here that M says to Madsen's

character is that if you had disclosed that she was on the Harvard fencing team with Moon. Oh, okay. In my mind, I was like, wait, with Graves? Graves was only around for a year. I'm like, very excited. No, it's with Moon because

he went and studied there. But also like, he went to, don't you think he goes to Oxford and Harvard? Yeah, but so did Frazier. accomplished academically. Fraser did that too. Oh, boy. Yeah.

And Niles went to Princeton and Cambridge. No, that's funny. The, I'm losing my train of thought on this graves situation. This is a grave situation. It was a scene with Judy Dinch where they're like,

oh, you already figured that out. Yeah. I was a little bit confused about what they were blaming each other for in that scene. I remembered what the thing was. I think they were too. It was like, well, Don't you think MI6 would know who she was on the fencing team with?

Right. Right. There's a fucking yearbook. It's true. You're telling me you're not pulling that. I know. And she's an agent. You do so much. You do so much.

You go through so much effort to find orphans. Like, you go through so much effort to make sure there's no tangential connection to any living person so that you can exploit these people to become blunt instruments for your espionage. And here you are not looking at a fucking Harvard yearbook. All their resources were going towards. developing a visible car, which, by the way, okay, I understand the concept of tiny cameras projecting to the other side. That doesn't explain the clear windows somehow go invisible. You can project through a clear window. Through a clear window.

You can project, like, you can have a see-through thing that is actually a screen. I think it works like that. Wait, isn't the clear window part of the skin? Yeah, I think so. I'm talking about the actual windows of the car that you could see through. They would be invisible on their own. So you're telling me the interior, when he opens the door, the interior is fully visible. Yeah, no, I think there's...

I want to hear you defend this. I'm not going to defend it, but I think conceptually what they were going for is that the light... The light emitting polymer is coating the entire vehicle. And but yet they have cameras inside the glass, tiny cameras have to... No, no, no, no, I think those cameras can just be on the door frame and still project based on whatever the fuck to... lens is now I'm defending this invisible car and I hate what you've done to me. I'm sorry, I apologize. I should never put

anybody in that position. Are you questioning why it can be, I think it works like a one-way mirror. I think he was just lost on how the cameras were. But that would be totally reflective not see-through. Because they're reflecting the opposite sides what the viewer would see. Yeah?

The camera is shooting on the other side of the car and projecting that on the opposite car side of the car. Right. But how would that work on the window? Isn't it work the same way? But you can't have little cameras in the windows. Little cameras. Why can't you have little cameras in the windows?

Because you wouldn't see through the windows because the cameras wouldn't be. Oh, you're envisioning them as almost nanobot tiny camera. You know, it's like they have like whatever. Say 50, you know, play strategically placed cameras that cover the air. And that's what I thought too. And it's like, you know how? Have you been in a car that has an overhead view when you're parking? No, how does it do that?

So when we were test driving cars, the XC90, we ended up getting the base model, but the fancy, fancy model, when you hit reverse, it's got cameras up at the, up towards the top of the car, a couple spotted cameras, and then what it does is when you hit reverse,

what it does is it projects those, and then puts what the car would, look like it's pretty cool. Oh wow. Yeah. So like when you're backing into a spot,

you have like an overhead view of what you're doing. Oh, wow. Therefore, I think this would work. Okay. I don't think it would really work.

Justified. It's terrible. It's great. Really, even if you, I would also be curious if you did a rundown on, have you done a rundown

on James Bond's weapons yet? No. No. But if you did a rund down on weapons, I would be curious to hear a blowbox. blow of like, here's an awesome weapon.

Did he use it in an awesome way? Because they have, all right, you got your invisible car. They never, the way that it finally pays off is that Zau is like, all right, I'm going to ram you. And then as he's driving, it goes invisible. And he's like, oh, no, what do I do? I have to keep my foot on the accelerator and die. I should stop. It's like, what is it turning invisible to do with?

Also, I love. love the fact that Bond doesn't use his fucking tire spikes traction ever other than to go up a wall like to come down the wall he turns it off yeah when the car would just slide down like leave it on buddy it seems to be a pretty also when he kills zow that thing of like he's driving all around and zow's already got in the water and then i like that chandelier i like that but even that is shot so poorly so red so fast they didn't even even line the shot up well so that when the chandelier falls, you can tell it's 10 feet in front of them. You know, like that was shot so poorly. The car chase on the ice is where, if you're going to buy into how stupid this movie is, I at least enjoy that because it's kind of well done and this is where it deserves to be lit really well.

And all so many missiles and guns in these cars. It's like spy versus spy, basically. Like the comic, which should have been awesome. And it also. A lot of speed ramping in that. Is this the only time when it's Bond facing another supercar? because it feels like that should have been, and that's like going back to the double O facing a double O kind of thing.

That's what it should be like, oh, it's a guy who has all of Bond skills and his equipment. And this is just like, why does Zau have all this shit? And there's nothing satisfying done with it. Yeah. That's correct. I also like how, like, he pulls, he opens the missile thing, the grill, and then the Jaguar has, like,

12 more missiles than Bond does. They're like, ooh, he's out guns. Yeah. And why? It's also like, why does that,

why does the, Koreans, they have access to all these? Why does the Jaguar panel have to blow away for the machine gun to come up? Like, that's poor design. But there's a, like a mini gun on this thing.

Yes. That doesn't, does that pop up or is that always there? It pops up out of the back. Oh, for fact. So the back panel is a back panel that's silver. that says Jaguar on it. These cars are basically from the cartoon mask.

Absolutely. Yeah, I totally loved. I think that's probably why I enjoyed that. I mean, if you're going to go that cartoonie, it should have been awesome. Why was it so... Listen, it's fine. Just redundant. I like it.

I like it flipping over with the ejector seat. I love that overhead shot of it, twisting, and you see the tire tracks all kind weave together. Like DNA, thematically. Oh, it's really, really taking care of... What's the theme of this film? What does Bond... entering.

Is it the hospital? Yeah, I think it's... The clinic? Is it the clinic? What is he... Now I've forgotten. The terrible scene where he disconnects the camera.

Oh, yeah. He's so easily. Just like, ha, ha, ha, I get past, I'll just sneak behind the camera and pull it on. I also laugh super hard that it made a noise.

Yeah, I know. I was like, are you telling me? Well, same with this little mini-scanner after they surf in in the beginning. That's the worst feature on the stealth thing is a noise. That doesn't have to be there. I just mentioned the joking way.

And then he walks in and it's all DNA and mirrors. Oh, yeah. Yes, yes. It looked like Scaramonga's fun. Exactly. It did. It left over. Like leftover from Scaramonga.

I was joking about the theme of the DNA, but Phil Nobiel wrote that amazing article on birth movie's death about how Skyfall, was it him that wrote that? Is the only really Bond movie with a real theme to it? Oh. And how great that was. And I'm trying to think if any other Bond movies really have much of a theme.

I think Casino Royale has a lost theme and Quantum has a revenge theme. And maybe Honor Majesty Secret Service has kind of a, at least a love plot, but kind of the theme going on there too. And you do well to have some theme in your Bond movies. I think that's absolutely right. So I make sure that I got there. Credit the right writer. Yeah. It does tell people where to find it.

completely tin. Like if you were to ask the classic writer question, what is this about? Then you would have no answer for this. Oh, boy. My notes are also sporadically. Has this one been done yet? I've tried to come up with something that no one would pick yet. Die a notes or day?

You beat me. Notes another day. There you go. These are my notes from October 20th, 2013 when we watched it Yeah I'll say this just

The first time we see Michael Not the first time we see him But when we see him in his office He has behind him An American flag A cowboy gun An old-timey football statues

And a statue of an eagle You might as well just put Like Uncle Sam standing behind him And a picture of Captain American Punching out of him He should No he should You should, M should video chat and it should be Sam the Eagle, the Muppet.

Sam, there would have been no more appropriate time for Sam to say, you're all moron. I'll tell you that. The, I want to talk about John Cleese as Q. Okay. I love John Cleese dearly, but there is something about this that doesn't feel right. Yeah. What is it? Because I buy him.

I don't know. I just feel... His introduction, I think, is better than this, his solo foray. He was lifeless, but I feel like that's in what they were given to do. Yeah. It's called Return to Skyfall written by Phil on Birth Movies' Death. Great article. Great article.

Our Man in the East. We're lucky to have them. Phil, hang in there. We'll talk about this ranking you did. I can't disagree with your diamonds or a dine other day placement, though. I believe that was his worst ranked, right? No. Was it? Yeah.

Yeah. And I understand why people think this is the worst film. Definitely. Even though for me it's not, but I definitely understand it. I can't believe it's not. What is in the running beside it? Tomorrow never dies. No. That's not good news for Brosnan.

No. Because... Sorry, man. Because they're bland. Yeah. Boring is a bigger sin for me than bombastic in a bond movie. You know, what's weird, though, because, you know, I wasn't a die-hard Remington Steel fan, but I really enjoyed it.

he was so charming and fun in Remington's which is why you would think he would make a good bond. And then he makes this adjustment when he's doing Bond of like, well, but I'm going to be different. And it's like you're cutting yourself off from the thing that's best about it. Yeah, I agree. You know, it's the same sort of like trope

that happens when they're promoting Bond films and inevitably the Bond girl will say to the press that she's unlike any Bond girl I've ever seen before. She really holds her own against Bond. And it's that sort of, that sort of like intention is always there, I think, with the filmmakers to make it different. And I think the intention, though, from Pierce Brosnan's standpoint, is always to make his bond more grounded. Like, that's what he wants to do. And so I think in every press interview similarly to the actresses who've played Bond Girls over the years,

And Brasden, I think, always was touting his wanting to more ground the character, wanting more ground the character. Which is something I don't, I can't think of other James Bond saying often, you know? Yeah, Dalton did. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well. Dalton was another. I think Dalton does a great job doing what he does. I like him.

I think he had a certain amount of charisma and at least he played the stoicism. Yeah. He really suffers, though. Well, but... Yeah, from scripts, I think. The scripts were terrible, yeah. Brosnan's biggest foible, I think, is all the scripts being terrible. Is there something happening during this era that was particularly problematic behind the scenes?

That led to the bad scripts? Yes, Cubby Broccoli died. Oh. But that doesn't explain Golden Eye and then the... Cubby was alive. Yeah, but he was, wasn't he hands off at that point? Yeah, a little bit. I think they still slipped on a script probably.

Casino Royale is the enigma. It really is the enigma. Why, it's good? Well, it's just, it's the deviation from the mean. You can't tell who's writing what. Yeah. We still don't know that about Purvis and Wade, because they solely are responsible for this thing.

But that's what I'm wondering, like, how much of it is everybody's just like, oh, the natural progression is to go crazy. And so they can obviously tone it down when doing Casino Royale, but what is theirs? What is theirs on Skyfall? Yeah.

I dying to know. I would love some insider information. But these camps seem to be very closed. It's very frustrating. It's saying that we struggle with the next conversation, or I struggle with the next conversation. I think Matt just skims along happily. I love Star Trek.

I'll watch it all the time. I love it the way Matt and I love Bond. When we see these terrible episodes and there's a debate of Maurice Hurley being in charge or was it the writer's strike or when was Roddenberry involved or not involved. And it's very frustrating to me, knowing how complicated it gets on a television show. And even when you're in it going like, I didn't want us to do that. Just like, who's responsible for stuff being good or bad? I know.

It takes a lot of moving parts. I wonder how much of this movie was done by committee, because it does seem like the strongest Bond films are the ones where you have something closer to an autour. But you don't really get those in Bond movies. I don't know. maybe that statement I retracted. Even right from the opening of Casino Royale, it's just such a

throwing down the gauntlet of this is what this is what this tone is going to be. What is a spot of Michael G. Wilson? What is Michael G. Wilson's came up? I don't know. Because I thought about that halfway through and didn't see it. As I was watching the fencing scene, I thought he might have been the guy that

got the newspaper cut in half. But then I thought, no. And I didn't rewind it to check. But I was really wondering what his cameo was. Let me look it up. One odd detail is Moon, when he's talking to his father, he's quoting Art of War. Yeah, and then he stabs it. And then she had the book on a, on some kind of a music stand.

Yeah. So that she can stab him with it. In an airplane. They needed a music stand in an airplane. It's even more. And then she kills her and going back to the is, the Halle Berry character, more of a dated character, then the characters in Live and Let Die,

says, read this, bitch. Yeah. Also says, you're a D'Art of War? Also says, your mama. Oh, God, yeah. For the first time since his cameo career began in 1964's Goldfinger, Wilson is formally credited for his bit part and die another day. The Bond producer plays General Chandler of the American Air Force in M's Situation Room.

Oh, right. He offers no lines. Chandler's breast is waded. heavily with medals, awards, and apparel. That's right. He is in that scene. I think we talked about that last time, but I've completely forgotten. Andy, what were you just saying? I'm sorry. I was talking about...

Jinks is read this... Oh, yes. So, to that point, she does say, Yo Mama. But in the scene, she says, yo Mama, while they're in a room full of robotic lasers. Now, this, of course, is a nod to Golden Eye, I mean, Goldfinger, rather. Is it a nod? It just seems like a haphazard use. 100%. But here's my question.

It seems that just by hitting one or two buttons on the remote control, you then get into a mode where the lasers are on and moving around at random. What mode is that? What fucking mode is that? Why are the deadly lasers programmed to go? That's plot. Haywire. It's this

button that says McGuffin mode. Ratchit up the action mode. She does say, oh, mama, it's very uncomfortable. Maybe it's a rave mode. I have no gloft for this movie.

That's a Gourley's lookout for this, except for it to say my lookout for this is literally look out for this movie. Like, beware, beware. Know what you're getting into. My last note on this thing is, Jesus, Christ.

And that's an appropriate note. Anything else we missed? I'm, I mean, just the whole ending, the whole ending sequence has a series of, of lines. It almost felt like they kept coming up. Is this the last line?

No, that doesn't work. Like, yes, they're calling answer. I think I broke her heart. I told you I was a jinx. I should have told you relationships don't last either. Let's we go down on each other.

Didn't you say we go down together? Yeah. Now, you said something about us going. down together. See, it's a perfect fit. So they have all that misdirect, and she has the diamonds on her. And it's...

That's like from an episode of Three's company. Leave it in just a few more minutes. And it's like... I want Mr. Roper outside going, what? It's... I know Bond films do all these things. No. Go that.

No. It's just... I think they... Coming off of Christmas only comes once a year. Yeah, where do you go from there? And the world is not enough. The last line of that movie. I think they were like, well, we've got to

beat that. See, still not quite sure how good you are so good, especially when you're bad. And the thing that bothers me the most is no line of dialogue works as a double or single entangre, nor does it have any connection to prior line. That's exactly right. It doesn't work either way. So it goes back to our theory that they're just attractive people saying nonsense to each other. Or they're still continuing a spy code language up to the point of sex. Like that's the form of consent is sexual harassment is so bad in the spy game that they have a like two-day code breakdown that they have to have for consent for sexual relations. And if anyone, yeah, if any one phrase is incorrect. Like for instance, if you were to say, say a line Jigshead. The predators come out at night. I don't remember if that was hers or something. I would say the, that's because the prey like water. Now because I said like water instead of come out.

to drink, we couldn't fuck. That's right. What? That is a third base. That's what that is. There's different branches. I'll give you a handy and that is it. Speaking of handies,

let's get the fuck out of this movie. All right, let's rate it. Andy, I don't know if you're familiar with this concept, but we like to give things a rating on this. How many Andy's are we getting? Well, instead of Andy's, like we do on Star Trek, the next conversation, we rate this on a scale of 0-00-0-0-07.

Oh, I see. So a great movie would be a 00-7 and a terrible movie. We have yet to pull it out. But the... Oh, I just double entendre. But the 0-0-0 would be the lowest. I didn't do that for Tomorrow Never Dies? You didn't do a 0-0-0-0.

I didn't. I don't remember. What did you do? I don't know. I'm trying to remember so I can do one notch up from that. Well... What are your double-o-sevans? We haven't hit one yet.

I don't think so. So, no. Oh, no. Goldfinger. Goldfinger would be the only one I would say. I don't think I did. 27? Well, we need something to make a chart.

As they do for us on Star Trek, the next conversation. Lovely people that do. Oh, and thank you, by the way. Some people sent in some stuff to Earwolf Forest. Comic strips, Condor Man, a nice drawing of the theme park. Thank you very much. That's always very kind. Condor Man is going to be insane, I think.

Oh, you guys are going to do Condor Man? I don't know. I don't know. I remember. being excited about seeing it when I was a kid. My parents didn't take it, take me to it. But now that Matt's schedules opened up a little bit, we're going to actually start getting to some of these offshoot movies, hopefully starting with Casino Royale and Maurice

LaMarche, maybe two next week, possibly. Maurice, you're probably listening, so. And he's coming to the live show, so we'll do a little shout out there and talk about it. We're speaking of that. Oh, yeah, there's 16 tickets available as of yesterday still to the U.S. UCB show we're doing. That's probably gone at this point then almost. See if you can get on there and get them.

I don't know. I mean, that's, we're almost sold out there. Thursday night this week, if you're in L.A. And you want to come see us, please do. We're at the UCB sunset. It's the Stitcher Premium Presents, James Bonding. And there is a limited series of posters signed by us available December 12th. I think I said December 2nd last time.

I apologize. They'll be on Podswag.com. slash 12 days. You can also go to slash bond. What night is your show? Thursday? Oh, Thursday. December 7?

I'm performing a show tomorrow there. Oh. It won't be released. But I do perform every first Saturday of the month with the Swarm at 9 at UCB Sunset. Yeah. That's an all-star lineup too. I think you're thinking of soundtrack unless you count.

No, because Swarm isn't Andy Daly and Charlie Conroy? Andy Secunda? See, that's an old schooler talking there. Scondon an all-star lineup. That is. Those are all great improvisers. They're all great. And Andy.

Yeah. And we have a, yes, we have a self-deprecating perspective on ourselves as being outdated. But yes, they're all great. If you want to see what comedy was like in the 90s or 2002, you want to see the die another day of improv comedy, go check out. No, no, don't promote it like that. Also, soundtrack on Fridays at UCB Franklin at 930. If you enjoy Andy's theories, check out Star Trek, the next conversation available wherever podcasts or listened. All right, let's rate this thing.

I guess, do we go guests first? Sure. Andy, what are you rated? Okay, you want me to go for it? I'm happy to go first. Yeah, go first. This movie for me gets a double O1. Same with me.

Yeah. See, I would give it a double a zero, except I'm trying to thank. I feel like you've got to, my instinct is you're giving it a one because there's something redeemable in it. No, it just watchability is the thing that matters more for me because even as bad as it is, I still marvel at it and my eyes are at times drawn to it. Yeah, 001. See, I would say the watching would make me knock it down to the zero. I understand. If you were saying,

oh, they were this good, and Judy Dent's still good in it? You're looking at it evaluatively. Yeah, I give it a one, too. Okay,

that's a solid one all around. This is the worst rated movie so far, and possibly ever. And now I understand, yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah.

Okay. Well. So next two weeks from now, it's my choice, and I think it's no surprise what's coming because it's a Christmas movie. It's the closest,

a Bond movie gets to a Christmas movie and it's a it's an exciting time with Denise Richards no although no no Christmas has a Christmas name we're gonna do on her majesty's secret service oh is it happened at Christmas wise it sure does yeah it does interesting it even has a song and it called where do Christmas trees come from really yeah I have no memory all right George Lazenby you're gonna be watched next week. Can I plug my Instagram?

Sure. Yeah, sure, buddy. I know. At Andrew Secunda. It's my full name. Andrew Secunda. S-E-C-U-N-D-A. That's correct.

There we go. Secunda Down Under is also a show he does on the Las Vegas strip. You don't call it Secunda Down Under? I mean, I say that when I go. Can you please go to Australia? Can you go to Australia and just use that hashtag for all your vacation photos?

Dan. Oh, please, you got it. You got it. Oh, we all have to buy him a trip to Australia just to see that hashtag come out. Why I came here. Well, thanks for joining us again. Thanks, Andy. Thanks for swinging through.

He'll be back again, I'm sure. I enjoy the podcasts very much. Thank you. Oh, definitely bring me back for Indy. You got it. Indiana Jonesing. It's happening. I don't know when, but soon.

James Bonding. We'll return. Oh, yeah. The weight is. is over. Womp It Up is back. Back, bitches. Every Tuesday, new episodes of Womp It Up are delivered hot and fresh to your inbox. Just like a DeJorno pizza. Going straight up your butt. Featuring all of your comedy faves, returning faves, and new faves alike. Subscribe today on Apple Podcast Stitcher or your favorite podcast app. Womp It Up. Hashtack turn around.

This has been an Earwolf production. Executive produced by Scott Ackermann. Chris Bannon and Colin Anderson. For more information and content, visit Earwolf.com. Hey, this is Arnie Neacamp from the Improft Fantasy Podcast. Hello from the Magic Tavern. I fell through a dimensional portal behind a Burger King in Chicago

into the magical land of food, and I started a podcast. Season three has just begun with a brand new adventure to defeat the dark lord. If you're a new listener or you've fallen behind season three is a great jumping on point.

And we've got great guests like Justin McElroy. I sat like a fan college professor. Hate Nats. Rachel Bloom. You are seeing my collection of men, corpses, and one woman.

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Jesus, I mean, Jarzos. Ruler of the eighth circle. And that's just the beginning. Season 3, A Below from the Magic Tavern, is out now. Listen in Stitcher, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.