James Bonding - For Your Eyes Only with John Ross Bowie

Episode Date: March 6, 2024

John Ross Bowie from Speechless and The Big Bang Theory joins Matt and Matt to talk about Moore's most serious entry in the Bond franchise. Well, serious except for the Thatcher thing, but you can't have it all. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Matt and, Matt and, Matt and, James Bonding podcast. Well, it's, what is the name of our show? It's James Bonding. And what is the name of me? You are Matt. And who are you? I'm also Matt. And this is the For Your Eyes Only episode.

It's all coming back. That's right. Oh my God. And our guest today, this is very exciting because we've got John Ross Bowie from Speechless. Hi. How are you, John? I'm great. From Speechless, and they still let them run off to the Big Bang theory, which is amazing.

That's right. They're like, yeah, sure, go. They're very generous. An interesting connection is that your wife on Speechless actually played a small part in Golden Eye. That's right. Oh, my goodness. I'm surprised we didn't come in that you should. Oh, wow.

Yeah, I should have come in and done a Golden Eye episode. But yeah, my TV misses. It was one of her first roles. It predates Goodwill Hunting. Really? I think so. It does, yeah. Oh, I always thought it was kind of like, let's put her as a known entity into this.

No, no, it was kind of a break for her. She's mentioned it. We've talked about it. And it was, she was sort of an actress slash singer kicking around London fresh out of drama school. And she got that gig. And then that led to other things. It's interesting. She's a singer and they purposely make her sound.

Yeah. Like she can't sing. Yeah. Or she had to do that. I've heard that it's very difficult to sing bad if you can sing well. Unfortunately, I don't have that problem. I can sing bad just fine. Just comes to you naturally?

Yeah. What a gift. The bad singing is a gift. John, what's your history with James Bond? Tell us if you have one. You know, I do. It's weird. I got into, I saw Moonwaker, was my first Bond in the theaters.

Wow. and loved it, you know, because it was, it's a, it's a Star Wars knockoff, it's clearly a cash-in, it really is, you know, it's the most blatant, it's one of the most trend-sensitive of the Bond films, I think. Of a very trend-sensitive franchise, that is the most bald-faced, yeah. It really is, you know, they're like, it's very much like, oh, this is the thing the kids are into right now, and sure enough, they fucking were. This, this eight-year-old was raptured. What is that, 79? Yeah, so I'm eight.

And it became clear that like, oh, this is what I'm going to, I'm going to be into this. This is the thing I'm going to be into. And then I saw for your eyes only the weekend it came out and did not care for it. Oh, interesting. Just didn't have enough. You didn't have enough gimmicks. Well, I mean, no space, no gadgets. Going from Moonraker to this very stripped down for your eyes only situation, I can imagine as a kid.

It was abrupt, yeah. But I was still very much a thing. I was like, well, okay, this was an off thing, but I'm still going to follow this. And what was great was growing up in New York, we used to have, and they're coming back now, but we used to have all these great little rep cinemas all over the place, the Hollywood twin or the theater 80 St. Marks, and they'd show Bond double features all the time, and they would just run through the cycle. So I saw all the Conneries on the big screen before I was in high school.

Wow. Oh, wow. It was really awesome. I saw all the Conneries. And Honor Majesty's Secret Service. Man, that's fantastic luck to grow up near somewhere that was playing them. Yeah, they would just do double features in chronological order. It was really, really cool.

That's a luxury. And then I saw all the Moors on ABC would show them. Yeah. It was like a big Sunday night thing. And then for whatever reason, high school came around and girls became an option. and Timothy Dalton just for I just something just unclicked with me and I just kind of lost interest and didn't come back to the franchise still Daniel Craig. Interesting. Yeah.

I definitely took a sabbatical during the Brosnan years. Yeah. I went dark. I've seen I've seen I've seen Golden Eye. And I didn't see it when it came out. I saw it on video years later. And I haven't seen it since I've seen it since I've. I've been working with Minnie, actually, though.

I should go back and rewatch it. Yeah, watch that rhinestone cowboy outfit. It's really something. She's singing, what, stand by your man, I think, right? Yes, that's exactly what she's saying. She's Russian? She's Russian, thick Russian accent. Yeah, she's good with, she's got a good ear for, well, her voice in real life is a series of dialects because she's, her mom's quite posh, and her dad was not.

So she'll go from, like, the dowager to Eliza Doolittle in this course of one sentence. It's the damned thing. doodle it. Yes. It really is a hell of a thing to listen to. But yeah, so I was, so I was a fan. And I read a couple of the books in junior high and didn't get a ton out of them, but, you know, read them. I think I read Dr. No, and I think I read maybe, no, I read, oh, God, I read Thunderball. I read Thunderball. I remember reading Thunderball. I remember reading Thunderball. ball and being like, oh, all right, this is not the movie at all. And, and I've got like enough, like, weird trivia. Like, I'm pretty sure, I haven't double-checked this, but the original M is short for Miles Meservie. That's right. Am I right about that? Yeah, so I have like dumb shit like that floating around in my head. It's a deep cut. It's a deep cut, yeah, but it's not representative of like, oh, then he must be an expert. It's just this, like, these little random trivia crumbs floating around.

That's how I'm about everything in life. I really am. Like, I can, I can rattle off a couple of things, even about some sports that I have no business knowing anything about. But I don't always understand what they mean, but I just keep them in my back pocket. I'm sure it comes probably from the same thing of like doing improv and you need to be able to reference something or at least play a character that knows what they're talking about. I think most of the really good improvisers I know have this sort of vague, dusty old file cabinet in the back of their head that just filled with like, oh, what do I have any baseball stuff in here? I must have something, right? I got like a, yeah.

But as I get older, that is valuable real estate that is taking up actual speech and motor function now that I am sacrificing as I trip over steps and can't remember words. But I can still pull out all this trivia. You need to remember lines from the wrath of con. Yes, exactly. No, it's true. It really is true. And all of this would be, it's super annoying that I have all this stuff in my head and have never really been

great at balancing a checkbook. You know, that's, that's, if I'm not in the arts, I'm not, it's not a good life for me at all. It's not, it's a bad scene. But yeah, I, so, so I'm a fan. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm definitely a fan, and it's been interesting. You go back and watch the Conneries now and they're a little bit their museum pieces. The action sequences don't necessarily work, but they're, there's such interesting time capsules still of mores and fashions and, uh, and worldviews, God help us. Yeah, I know. And what's interesting, too, is I find that what they once existed as, as a travel log, now works as like a time travelogue.

So you can go anywhere, you can fly anywhere. It's no big deal to travel exotically anymore for the most part. That wasn't the case back then. But now I find the excitement of the Connery era to be just that mid-century sort of thing and to see what countries were like at that time, even if it's a heightened sense. I just love it as a transport in time. Just the stuff, the Vegas stuff and Diamonds are forever. It looks incredible now.

The Jamaica stuff in Dr. No. It's just really. it's a real time machine. It's fascinating. Well, I say we go back in time to 1981. Wow. For Your Eyes Only. I think this is the James Bond movie. I've seen the least. Really? Yeah, it's never been one of my go-to ones and favorites, and I'm just going to come out with it right now. I've enjoyed this movie this last time more than I think I ever have. I don't know what it is. Maybe it's just because you watch these movies, especially you and I, so much that naturally, one that you see the least is going to seem the freshest.

So for some reason, this one really spoke to me. I found myself a lot of a lot of the film just going, oh, oh yeah, that guy. Yeah. Really enjoy that guy and his mustache. What a choice. There's great stuff in this movie. I definitely liked it a lot more than I did upon its opening weekend 37 years ago. And there's also some disastrous shit, which.

we'll get to. But the good stuff is really entertaining and effectively suspenseful. And yeah, there's a lot to like here, a lot to unpack. And a simple, relatively simple plot for a Bonn movie compared to the other. Yeah, it's not a nuclear missile we're looking for. No, it's trying to start World War III. It's someone who's just trying to get something that doesn't belong to them to sell to the Russians. It does seem like they're going back to from Russia with love for that sort of thing. and it makes me think that it would make a good Craig film, like a soft reboot of this film, would actually be kind of interesting to me.

How so? Well, just because it's kind of low-key detective on the trail, just, you know, it doesn't have a lot of spectacle. I don't know. There's good, I mean, the stakes, this is one of the things I didn't, because I remember just not understanding what the machine was and what it did when I was a kid.

I still not sure I do, but. It's, well, it's, it's early, computer stuff, which 81 was just absolutely gibberish. And perfectly waterproof. Yes, apparently. But the stakes are there. If the Russians get this, they will know where all of our nuclear subs

are, and that's bad. And they can even make them launch. Yeah, that's the other thing. That's right. Yeah. So that's legitimately scary. And spoiler alert, I do like the way it ends with like, you know, maybe this technology is just too powerful. should just get rid of it. I love that ending too.

Yeah. Sound design was interesting, though. Oh, you do, do, do, do, do, do, do, when it crashes? Fascinating. Yeah, they really went. It reminded me of like a Duran Duran music video opening or closing before or after the music. Just some little coda that would go, like, put that sound effect in. Before John Taylor's bass kicks in.

Yeah. Sure. Sure. As we would know, two movies later. You know, they're both Taylor, but they're not related. There's three tailors. Oh, that's three tailors. Andy, Roger and John.

I actually, remember I sent you that video of them at Coachella the year John Barry died? Yeah, that's right. And they do a, their encore at Coachella that year was a medley of bond themes that went into their own. It was cool. It's really cool. It's a great YouTube finding. They're a great band. About the only thing they would get me to Coachella.

That. Oh, there's absolutely no way. There's no way I'm doing a hundred. John Taylor is quite a bass player. He's an excellent. My sister was obsessed with Duran Duran. She was a Nick Rhodes head. And she had his, I remember saying, like, why are you so obsessed with him?

Like, you're never going to meet him? Like, what are you going to do, marry him? And she was like, I might. I wish that. I wish the end of the story was. I know. My brother-in-law is Nick Rhodes. The cold open, of course, we've talked about before.

sort of tying Honor Madagy's Secret Service in, Tracy Bonds visiting Diana Grace Grave. And the lawsuit, do you know about all of that? Did any of this seem odd to you if you don't know that story? I know that they were, that he was threatening to leave, that Moore was threatening to leave the franchise, so they wanted to make it clear that this was a continuum, and so they were connecting him to Laysenby in order to make the audience sort of ready for there to be a new bond, which wasn't coming for another three movies or so.

Three, two? Two more movies. He did Acquise and Vito a Kill. Yeah. So I knew there was something about like brand management, but what lawsuit? So the lawsuit, and I'm sure the listeners know this, but I'll do it in a nutshell, is that when Ian Fleming wrote Thunderball with a man named Kevin McClory prior to this franchise of Bond films, they wrote it together, which he then did Devere went anywhere, and then he did the book based on that. And then they made the movie based on the book. And along comes Kevin McClory.

He goes, hello, I have the rights to Blofeld and to Specter and a certain amount of things. And so this whole lawsuit happened. I guess it would have been after Diamonds Are Forever because you never see Blowfeld after Diamonds or Forever until this film. Oh, wow. But they never mention them by name. Yes, he does. He does, basically. They never mention him by name in this movie.

No, that's right. They don't, do they? It's a way to kill the character and do a fuck you to Kevin McClory. which is what this line we always talk about on here is, I'll buy you a delicatessen in stainless steel. Yes. Which is a reference to like a mafia buyout that they were trying to dig at Kevin McClory

for being like a mafia. Tied up, right. And so that lawsuit basically never got fully settled. Well, he, McClory got the rights. That's why I'd never say never again exists as a remake of Thunderball. Right. Had it all these years and finally came around

after Skyfall to where this franchise that Eon got the rights to those characters and could bring Blofeld back for Spector. Wow. So it's a huge, like, full circle. It's a long tail. I have to say, as someone who has been sort of thrust into the role of a disability rights advocate over the past couple of years, I know it's Blofeld. I know he's a bad guy. I don't love the guy using a wheelchair getting picked up by the helicopter and dropped into an enormous endowment.

Chimney. I don't, never fully explain why he's in a wheelchair. Yes, we don't know why he's in a wheelchair. I don't come to, oh, I figured it was a callback to Majesty Secret Service because he has been... It would be except he's in Diamonds or Forever without that. Oh, right, yeah, never mind. Unless whatever the accident, because he kind of disappears at the end of that movie.

Is he Charles Gray in Diamonds or Forever? Okay. And he's just the last we see of him is he's been shaking around in this small little submarine that's above the water, so... Which looks a lot like the Mac and Me spaceship. That submarine. in. Wow. Speaking of deep cuts. Kind of puts my Miles Meservian perspective,

doesn't it? But so there's a part of me that's just like, you're picking up this guy who does not have the facility of it. This is not a fair fight. I know he was just remote controlling your helicopter, but get out of the helicopter to arrest him. Don't dump him in an industrial. And again, I do not come to the James Bond franchise for its sensitivity. You seem to be a blowfeld defender here, John.

I'm a blowfield apology. Do you feel differently if that, he was put into a wheelchair by Bond originally. Like he was an able-bodied person, but then somehow what he did to fight Bond got him in the wheelchair in the first place. Does that matter to you? No, I think that's somehow worse, right?

Yeah, that's 100% worse. Yeah. It's in finishing the job. It's rubbing salt into the wounds, yeah. Yeah, it's horrible to start this whole thing as a massive PC buzzkill, but I was not, I was just like, oh, that's right, because it all came back to me.

And then there's also one shot where and it's all green screen, it's all 1981, but there is one shot where it's the worst, like, department store mannequin out on the landing craft of that thing, which is not a great look. Do we establish, is the helicopter pilot working for universal exports? I wonder this myself.

I think he is, but I think he's a Blofeld Inside Man, because he mentioned it. He's not one of our best men or something. He gives him... No, but I felt like the priest was just being a priest. But I think he is a priest. that's the film just kind of making it mysterious, but you could make a case that the priest is in on it too, that Blowfeld planned this whole thing with the priest and the helicopter.

If those hockey playing teens are inside, and for no reason, all of the goalies, just goalies practicing goalie stuff. If they're all in on it, then I assume the priest is in on it, too. Yeah, it's not a huge leap. I don't, I also don't go for a ton of, uh, they were just practicing for the inevitable one-on-two power play. I want to say that there is a sort of callback to me for the live and let die, make a choice, make a choice, because in the end of this gun barrel sequence where Bonn comes out, shoots the screen, and it kind of goes, or whatever, what is the music when he comes in? Dun.

Bum-da-da-bom-bom-bba-da-bub-dum-bub. Only, only. It goes into just the only part of... So you're thinking that that was just woven. in. I don't know, but it's always your non-John Barry's that want to get those little lyrical passages in like George Martin and Bill Conti. Well, let's talk about the music for a moment. Wow. So Bill Conti is a war criminal and it is... It is abysmal music. It is terrible music. It is everything that's wrong with that era of film scoring. But what is interesting is the way it's

used. And I remember there being not a ton of music in the Moore movies, but what happens throughout for your eyes only, with an exception towards the end, is there's no music until Bond gets the upper hand. Yes. That's right. All that underwater getting the A-TAC sequence, all the rock climbing. The underwater scene especially felt

like it needed some suspenseful. It slows. The rock climbing, I have to say, was very suspenseful. Oh, no. That was okay, because you hear the wind, I actually like that. Yeah, and it is nerve-wracking. The great little, it isn't until he manages to commandeer the helicopter that the music kicks in.

It's once he gets like a, I don't know, I can't remember exactly what happens in that first car chase when he first meets Carol Bouquet, but he gets some sort of upper hand at one point, and that's when the scoring kicks in. It's, it's a, I think it's a very deliberate directorial choice that I think is kind of cool. It's interesting, and the same thing happens when he's on skis, and then that fanfare person that is like... They don't get music. Only James gets music.

I know. But he gets a straight up rocky theme at that point because he's fresh on the heels of his big Rocky score. And they bring in these horns that are not like Bond brass. They're like, what is it? It's like, ba, ba, ba, ba. But ba ba ba. Yeah.

It is straight up like anthem fanfare music that Bond gets. I once met Bill Conti because I went to like a music of Bond thing where Vic Flick played the original acoustic. to guitar that the bond theme was recorded on. Oh, wow. And Bill Conti was there kind of going through, it was weird because the whole Q&A was really with Bill Conti as if like, what was it like to make all the bond? He did this one film.

But then he just did the one, right? He just did the one. And when we rode in the elevator out together, just randomly he came in. And I was so torn of like being this close to a bond composer, but one whose work, I think actually subtracted from the film. As a moment in time, I like the. score is a weird oddity because it's it's so discoy and so it's 81 yeah yeah but it doesn't help the film and I just think like a John Barry version of this movie would be makes everything better but really amazing

yeah it's but it's it's it's a shame that you have this kind of bold directorial choice of like there'll be no extra diagetic music until our hero comes into his own and that's when we the audience is sort of emotionally queued to enjoy themselves um but it's wasted on this this pedestrian 1981 score. It's almost as if there's an orchestra sitting around going like, I don't work for anybody but Bond. Yeah. As soon as he gets the upper hand, all right, the conductor raises his baton. It's so funny because the guitars come in and I was like, oh, Christ, but I mean, like the whole, it's, it's, the, the bond theme is known for its guitar work. It's just the way the guitar is sound and they're recorded and the drums are, oh, the whole thing's a mess. Yeah, it's really not a,

not a good score. But that scene with the helicopter. is it works. You are not, I didn't remember how he gets out of it. I don't, right? And I was, I found myself very quickly invested in, is he going to be okay? Even though I know for a fact, we have two hours left and he'll be fine. No, he's dead and it goes to black. Yeah.

I like the tight turn it takes when it comes back. Oh, the helicopter do that tight. Oh, inside the building? Yeah, that's great. No, it's incredible. And the foreground miniature on that when it goes into the building, unbelievable. As always, the Bond movies and their foreground miniature work makes me hot. It's interesting, too, that this cold open, too, is not only not in an exotic location.

It's in the gas works. I think it's called the Brechtin Gas Works. It may be the same place they filmed full metal jacket for Vietnam. Oh, okay. If I'm not mistaken, I could be wrong about that. For the sniper scene at the end. Yeah. Yeah.

But it's gloomy as hell. there's nothing exciting about where they are at one point I think you see Big Ben and that's about it really you don't get any of the like glamour of London it's just probably because they had restrictions on where they could do this helicopter stuff but I do find it interesting that everything's gray and brown and kind of like in a way setting you up for what this film is compared to Moon Raker like we're going to take it all away and you don't get anything exciting yeah I mean that was like a purposeful thing right they sort of been like we need to ground this we can't yeah but it's still interesting but it's still interesting But then it ends with, I mean, it's bookended with two of the more whimsically silly moments in the franchise. I mean, that ending, we'll get there. But that ending is fucking ridiculous. Yeah, we'll talk about it. I also love in this opening that there's a couple shots of the stunt driver of the helicopter who's actually piloting it. Who's up and about and fine.

Well, no, he's already, his character's already dead. Yeah. But he's flying it so you can kind of see the, stick moving, but he's like, you know, his eyes are squinting and he's watching everything, but he's got his head leaned to decide like he's dead. Yeah, he's fine. That's a pro right there. Opening music, Fear Eyes Only theme. Wait, real quick. Do you think they got that Blofeld dropped right on the first time? How many times... Oh, I think they nailed it. That's incredible. That's a stunt team that knows what they're doing. I would hope so, but imagine if you didn't, like,

there's how many broken Blowfelt wheelchair dummy things hit the the side of that smoked stacker. Good question. Would you, if someone offered it to you, a blow-filled wheelchair dummy, would you take it? Oh, what? Follow up to that. Where the fuck would you put it?

You're asking, let's make it clear that. They're asking Matt Goreley. Yeah, I'll answer that in two answers. Question one and question two, yes. And number two, in the entryway of my house. See, I don't know. That's the kind of thing where I'm like, if theoretically I would like to have it,

but the actual reality of like, where do I put it? I would love it. Because you know if it's the one that they dropped, It probably has no face. It's like foam and broken apart. And yeah. Let me say this. It's the sort of thing you get after you've been married for a while.

Yeah. And she knows that she's in it. And she's like really going to make a commitment. It's not the sort of thing one brings into the front way of your house when you're single. That's right. Looking to mingle. That's right. Yeah.

Hey, nice place. What's this now? Oh, why, that's the blowfell dummy from for your eyes. Oh, ma'am? Ma'am? We dropped it. Where are you going? Oh, I'm going to get a wedding dress.

I've never been more turned on. Okay, so you'd take it, and you'd put it in your entry way. Do you really think you'd put it in your entry? No, but I would take it. Like the reality of it, I want you to really think about it, Matt. In case I can get my hands on one. Oh, God. Where would you put it?

I think at some point we're going to renovate the garage into a studio or something. I'd put it in there as a little show piece. Okay. All right. Excellent choice. All right. Good to know. Just in case.

Okay. I don't know why. I think I can get my hands on one. But the reason you brought it up twice makes me think that you may have a line on to this. And now I'm disappointed if it doesn't. I'm going to see your browser tabs. I feel like you've got an eBay window open for guys that would be on eBay. It's a higher quality item. Also, is that, did they have to fish that thing out of a smokestack?

Is there like a hatched at the bottom of a snakes? I'm assuming it's a series of identical wheelchairs and identical mannequins. Just down at the bottom still? We've got to go. We got to repel down that smoke stack. Yeah, let's do it. Would that be amazing? It'll be like the opening of the Force Awakens when you're down.

Instead of looking for scraps and a Star Destroyer, we're looking for... But can you imagine going down there? There are eight wheelchairs and eight Blowfeld dummies. And does the cat get... The cat gets free. Does the cat jump aside. They actually make a point of showing the cat get away. Yeah.

To show the cat. Well, thank God. And at least the movie, they were kind of the cat, because in the production, they had no qualms about just pinning it down against its will. Oh, really? Yeah, there's some great footage. There's a lot of footage of the cat struggling. There's some that makes it in. You only live twice.

Does not want to be there. Donald Pleasance is clearly like almost has it in a stranglehold and it's just going because I feel like the cat is, well, he's trying to hold down the cat. The cat is digging a lot deeper into Donald Pleasins. And he's the consummate professional. All right. Or you feel like Tully Savalus would have just drop kicked that thing. It's a shell towing.

All right. So, the me. Music. Yeah, the Fiori's only theme. Listen, I like the chorus. That's it. The only part of the song I like. It's catchy, but it's never been one that stayed with me in a great way.

I prefer the more up-tempo-bond themes, generally speaking. It's interesting, again, that it's 1981, the rise of the music video is now clearly trending upward, and they've decided, like, oh, we need to actually see people singing now. That's what we're doing now. The first time. Yeah. And I think it's historically significant for that reason of like, oh, this MTV thing, I think, is not going anywhere. This is, we should show.

Also, she's stunning. Yeah. I'd forgotten how beautiful she in Easton was. Despite her mom hair at the time. I mean, she has. Yeah, but that was that kind of mom hair, though. That mom hair at the time was not mom hair. That was just awesome hair.

Samantha Fox hair. Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, it's not my, it's not my favorite song by a damn site. But it is interesting. again, speaking of the trend consciousness of the Bond franchise that they're like, oh, we can essentially

can put a music video in the front of our film. Kids want MTV, we'll give them MTV. Yeah. That's Cubby Brockney. Yeah. The Blondie rejected for your eyes only has really grown on me. Did you know about that?

No. No. No. Not that. I'll bring it up. You guys continue to talk. We've covered this before. I don't know where he gets his hands on these songs

that were rejected, but he has a file of them that is immense. Wow. Like, of just like themes. Like there was a, wasn't there a Radiohead one you had? Well,

I've heard that. I haven't heard of it, I've heard there was one. Yeah. They were going to do Spector? Yeah. Really? It was apparently submitted.

Johnny Cash submitted one for Thunderball. Which I love that. Can you guys hear this? No. No, we can. Oh, now we can. I like this a lot. I like this a lot.

Dig it. I dig it. There is also another four-year-eyes-only version of the Sheena Easton song that was a first pass on it. That's similar, but slightly different to you guys can get on your internet. But it's also Sheena Easton's vocal? I think so. I feel like, yeah, I think so. I don't know, man. I don't have this file. We covered all this before. I know we have, but it's been years.

It's been many years. Maybe we should do a full episode on all the rejected. Oh, there you go. There you go. That's fine. People love that. That's really cool. Yeah.

No M in this movie. He had apparently passed. He had passed, and they weren't ready to fill the role yet. I know. So he's on leave? Yeah. Yeah. Bernard Lee, I want to say.

Yeah. May he rest? Who takes over for M after this? Robert Brown. Okay. Who is the minister of... No. What is he in this?

He's not that guy. No, what is... He's in this. Robert Brown's in this. No, that's not Robert Brown. Isn't that Robert Brown? Robert Brown is the guy that plays M in the next movie. Right.

He's here tofore never been in. That guy. Who is the guy that I'm looking at and I'm going like, oh, that's Robert Brown? No. That's the Minister of Defense and he's in a bunch of them. For some reason, they thought they needed like two authority figures often. He's often in there with M, both ends. It takes two authority figures to make up for one M.

Yeah. Wow. It's weird too because there's very, very few gadgets in this movie yet three times as much Q as we're used to. I know. It's a lot of Desmond Wellen. And, and disguise. He's in disguise.

He's in disguise. He dresses as a priest in this movie. Oh, yeah, that's right. There's a lot of, it's, but yet he basically does, Q shows up, does a Google image search and then F's off until the, and it's, and again, that was what bothered me when I was 10 years old was just,

where are the toys, man? Because Moonwrickers got like, it's, it's, even the girls have gadgets. In Lois Childs has gadgets. There's a whole gadget porn scene. That's right. Yeah, Daily, Deadly Diary, if I recall, right? So it's so strange how it flunts that convention.

But it also makes for a slightly less silly film until that ending. That ending, we'll save it till the end of this. I'm just blown away by this Robert Brown not being. in this movie. And this whole time, I'm like, that's him. That's totally him. I know. Octopussy is his first movie.

Really makes the whole thing less enjoyable from me now. Interesting. He does kind of blend into that, you know, well, they were probably only in their 60s. They look 70 or something, but. They're probably 48. I know. 48 years old. Yeah, no British people in that era that was, yeah.

There's also often this thing about, you know, every time a Bond Girl is cast, There's the PR thing of like, this is a different bond girl. She's really strong, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Malina Havillac, as written, really is kind of her own independent streak. She's pretty kick-ass. Well, we first meet her, she, oh, no, we don't know. She watches her father-dad when we first meet her. But the next time you meet her, she kills a bunch of people.

Right. And with a crossbow. Yeah. But then is, of course, immediately grabbed by the hand and lured into the jungle where she's the one who's familiar, not to get all, like, freshman year film student on it. But it is striking how quickly Bond is just like, well, that was amazing. You saved my life. Excuse me.

I'm going to take your hand. And we're going to get it. But the reason that I find that interesting is because then they reverse it twice, where after his car blows up, she grabs him by the hand and says, follow me. That's right. And then they're in her car and she shifts the gears and like, like, can't wait for him to do it. That's right. Good point.

And he's kind of what? And she just shifts for him. And I don't know. She does have a fuck you attitude that I kind of like. I love that. It's cool that we're skipping ahead to this car chase. I don't know how chronologically you want to go. Whatever, it's fine.

That car chase, A, just works as a car chase. And it's also funny that it's, I mean, what are they driving? Is it a lit car? It's a centrian? Yeah. Okay. It's not a particularly sexy bond mobile. No, that's the point.

And I love that. Yeah. His fancy souped up car blows up. That's terrific. And then they end up doing what looks to my American eyes like a le car, basically just cruising around, where are they? Northern Spain at this point? They're Albania?

Or no, they're in Greece. They're in Greece still later. Yeah, they are in Spain. I think they start in Spain. Yeah, they talk about that in the documentary that because they're trying to counter the excess of Moonraker, that even that car thing was a way of like, let's play with it. Let's blow up on Splashy car and go to this jalopy and just see how that feels. And it feels great.

And it presents incredible stakes because you're not sure if that car is going to survive that tumble, you know? And it kind of just barely does. And I love what a total shitbox it is. So she was dubbed Carol Bouquet. I also... She's dubbed by herself, I believe. Oh, weird.

Yeah. Very. But often the girls, especially the women in the movies are dubbed frequently by different voices, but I think that's her voice. Let me check. I do like how the townspeople are so used to flipping over Citrans that they... Yeah. They all just go, all right.

There's no, like, hey, we did it. Literally takes a village. Yeah, go ahead. Have fun. Maybe she was. I'm not sure. Let's see. I don't know why we're, so.

She was dubbed. She dubbed herself in the French version, but she was dubbed. You can tell. And then I went on IMDB and I was like, yeah, that feels like, like, that's not her. Yeah. And the downside of that is she already has really sleepy eyes. And so when you put that voice that does. doesn't quite match her physicality, it just sort of feels like she's sedated the entire time.

Yeah, no, she's pretty opioided up, it feels like. Let's talk about the women in the film. So she's interesting, and I like that she's got real hardcore personal stakes that are not bonds, but are valid. It seems that her personal stakes are all the result of the fact that she's half Greek. I'm half Greek. I must have been she says this. Well, she compares herself to Electra. Yeah.

Your explanation to him is I'm half Greek. You wouldn't understand. So I have to avenge. That's great. I love it. This is one of the few things in this movie is a woman on revenge with a crossbow. Oh, really? That's from the text.

It's a short story, I think. I forget which one. It totally tracks, too, that she's, like, wielding a crossbow. Like, she seems like the type that grew up with a crossbow. Yeah. No, she's super badass with it. It's really fun to watch. And I love the Countess.

Oh, the Countess Leisle. She's so delightful. Brosnan's wife. Is it really? Yeah. Oh, that's crazy. Yeah. The Countess is a great character.

Can we talk for a moment about Holly the Skater? Yes. You can't talk about this movie without it. I remember that killing in front of the audience. It's weird what I can recall from 37 years ago. But when Moore offers to buy, when Rodney's. Roger Moore, when James Bond is like, I'm not going to fuck you. You're too young.

I'll go buy you an ice cream. It killed. Really? It played so well in front of a crowd. And so that's weird. But it's also interesting. Apparently she's like maybe 18 months younger than Carol Bucay, but she looks so kind of wholesome in pigtail.

I know. They also play it up with her kind of doing a whiny voice. Like, I don't want to do this. Yeah. Gosh. Do I have to? Yeah. So weird.

And she's fresh off. that Ice Castle's fame. Yeah. That was like... Ice Castles was huge. I'm sorry, I'm going to play the age card here. Ice Castles was enormous. What was Ice Castle?

It was just a movie about a figure skater who falls in love. But she goes blind. Yeah. But this is something that was huge at the time, but never transcended out of that generation. Like it didn't survive. I asked my wife about it out. It doesn't last, it doesn't like have the stay that like dirty dancing was huge at the time. And history has been strangely kind to it.

Yeah. Ice castles does not have that cachet. Only people of that generation. No, you had to be alive and watch the ad. I guess I have to ask the audience is the cutting edge, that film. Does that film transcend? Or is that just? Well, she goes, are you thinking of the cutting edge?

And I'm like, oh. Cutting edge is like 13, 14 years later. Right, yeah. But I'm wondering if that, see, I feel like the cutting edge is my ice castles. It may be, but the difference with ice castles was it was more of a like, well, she, she goes blind or he goes blind? She goes blind. And Robbie Benson helps.

Robby Benson. because it was 1979 and you had to put Robbie Benson in your film. We are a country of laws, Matt. If I remember correctly, it was Ice Castles and Little Darlings were these young adult movies that just were the rage at the time. And they were on cable every 20 minutes. That's right, yeah. And then they weren't.

With Bond movies. Like it was basically, for your eyes only, Octopocean View to Kill on heavy rotation on HBO. And then Ice Castles or Little Darlings would come up. Yeah. Ice Castles would be interesting to watch again. we should do an in-between episode if we do that

before we get to this fucking Operation Kid Brother or something I know never say never again The it's it's Um but she's a

It's a weird Because he gets a ton of information from her Doesn't fuck her Ergo she lives True Right Um She doesn't

She's not the disposable bond girl Because you know You she hasn't been Sext up So she can She can survive Um And then that takes us to that ridiculous scene in the hockey rink.

Yeah. But just her character. There's something. It's something off about it. Yeah, it doesn't stand the test of time. It's something uncomfortable about it, but also like, I get it. I get what they were doing. She's hurling herself at this 52-year-old man, for one thing.

That's a little, well, no. Yeah. But even her hurling is like spoken to such an extent where she's like, oh, I could just eat you up. Like, you just don't get... I know a lot of young women are attracted to much older men, but there's something about her that is so, like, voracious about it that is off-putting.

I don't know what it is. Well, because it has a... I mean, listen, to accuse a bond film of having a whiff of male fantasy is adorable, John, but there is a whiff of like, I wouldn't it be awesome if you were so powerful that you could turn this down? I guess that's what I mean. put it better. I didn't really say like her attraction to an older man is off putting. But there is something that it's obviously coming from a male's perspective. Oh, God, yeah. Yeah, that's what I meant.

Yeah, wow. She, um, her, her performance is interesting too because she, was she an Olympic athlete in real life or just a figure skater because that's how she was in ice castles and she's a badass skier for real. I think she was an Olympic athlete. She might have done like 76 or something. Yeah. scenes, you can see that Roger Moore is clearly roped into that sled thing that they used for Honor Her Majesty's Secret Service where they only film him from the waist up, but she's just behind him like skating

or skiing circles around him, but I love it. It's more of that like, whee! Ha ha! Yeah! All in studio months later. That stuff works too, though. That ski scene is effective. When he's on the little toboggan run or whatever,

it's really effective. It looks great. The green screen is very sporadically deployed, so most of it is just launch shots of people really, really risking their lives. I know it's Willie Bogner, and they talk about that in a documentary, too, about how the bobsled is way too heavy. He'll never be able to ski as fast as that. And John Glenn, the director goes, do you mind if we cable you to that? And he just goes, sure, why not? So he's being pulled by that bobsled as he goes down. How does it stop? How do they stop? What happened? I was wondering that myself, like maybe they slow break and he just kind of shushes or like plows down. I don't know.

I mean, that guy's incredible. He does all like skiing camera work in these films too. And as we learned, has his own line of snowwear that I was hoping was a Bond B on his zipper, but it's actually Bogner. That's a shame. And always worth watching those documentaries to see him interviewed. And he is so sunburned and lip chapped. His lower lip is like, it just looks like a rotten peach. I bought the film on Amazon.

Did not have the option to rent. So I now own a copy of your eyes only. No worries. iTunes has a career. My bad. No worries. No worries. That's not at all.

Just got a season three. You don't have it. Just ask. We get it to you. But it was literally like I can go because I checked online to see if one of the libraries had it. And they had it at the central branch downtown. And I was like, I can go downtown. I can pay 10 bucks for parking.

Oh, this is too much work you've done for this. Or I can just pay the 12 bucks and get that. But I wish I'd had, I wish I'd been able to watch the DECs. I love Bond DVDs. They're great. They understand what a DVD can do better than a lot of people. They're all. Because they were doing it in the laser disc time.

They were putting out that chair. All the, like the doctor know Blu-ray is fantastic. They're all just packed with cool shit. And I regret not, not, I'll go rent it. What the hell? I'd love to watch some documentary stuff about this movie. They started doing it. that on Amazon for some movies

where now you can buy it with the special features. I think they all come that way. In iTunes, you get everything. Oh, really? I'm a king of iTunes. Sorry. That's true. Yeah. I'm not going to back away from that. I'm a king of iTunes. There's a brand-new podcast. There's a brand-new podcast called John Levinstein's

retirement party out now on Stitcher Premium. It's hosted by writer, actor, and producer, John Levinstein, who's written for some hilarious shows you've probably seen, like Arrested Development and Silicon Valley. In celebration of John's long career and show business, he will share personal stories from the writer's room, offer advice, rehash old decisions, settle feuds, and tell friends he loves them.

John and his co-host, actress and writer Mary Kobayashi, talk with people from all different facets of the entertainment industry, like Karen Kilgareff from My Favorite Murder, Nick Kroll from Kroll Show, my favorite Kroll show, Jill Soloway from My Favorite Transparent, and David Harbour from Stranger Things and Quantum of Solgum. James Bonding tie-in. Listen to John Levinstein's retirement party out now on Stitcher Premium. Go to stitcherpremium.com slash Levenstein. That's L-E-V-E-N-S-T-E-I-N and use promo code bond for a free month of listening.

Quantum of Solace. Mad-N-M-N-M-N-M-N-M-Hoddy-Bonding podcast. Let's talk about this identograph. I'm happy to talk about the identical-E-N-Rat-Rae. The Nettigraph takes not a lot of time. By the way. It does because they cut. So much time.

That staff all leaves. There's a passage of time in that. Oh, yeah. Did you notice it? But also, like, I love the idea that the Minister of Defense and not Robert Brown are so familiar with the identograph. Well, they're just like, just use the identograph. Well, I feel like it's go down and use the fancy new machine we just paid millions of dollars for.

We're also excited about it. Oh, yeah. That's what that was. the vibe I got. Yeah. This is something I noticed for the first time too. When they sit down

to use the identograph, the room inexplicably goes red. Like the lights all turn red. Yes. It's either signifying, do not come in here or a top secret or

like almost like you're developing films. Yeah, is it supposed to be a dark room? I know, but I love it. Like what, what, who was responsible for that?

I think it should go red when they turn it on. But also like, it's poorly scripted interplay between Desmond Louellon and Roderick. Carcassian. Carcassian. Right.

Yeah. Sorry. Like that's all that is happening. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's, um, yeah, I guess it takes hours. It feels very much like, he's a mustache, longish hair. There we go. Yeah, what they show you is just, well, by the way, like, they kind of nailed it in the

first four seconds. Right. Like, well, because everyone had that hair. And then we come back to it and all that's happened is there's, There's a few more lines on his face. A few more lines on his face, those weird octagonal glasses or whatever. And everyone's got a Bay City Roller's haircut. So you're off to the races, yeah.

This is a henchman that I feel like always flies under the radar. And every time I watch this movie, I remember how much I like him because he's pretty subtle. I also noticed for the first time, too, when Molina shoots that Cuban guy at the pool. Uh-huh. And everybody's scrambling to deal with that. As the blood fells up in the pool, yeah. He has his own little henchman there that I never noticed before. And that guy's about to do something.

And he just waves him off. Like, no, let's just sit and watch where this goes. Yeah, that was weird. I liked it. I liked it because, like, the whole, like, the idea of the plan of, like, him just looking at that happen and going like, oh, I'll just take the money back. Yeah, did you know, that? I noticed, too, when they get up to leave his little henchman takes the money that the

Cuban had given to that girl, like. And she just goes, aw. Oh. Glorious. movies. They all have just wonderful little nooks and crannies. That's right. Okay, so I want to talk a little bit about the town they go to the ski town.

Yeah, sure. Cortina, is that what it was? Maybe. Northern Italy, they're in the Italian Alps, right? Yeah, the carriage ride, I feel like we just don't give enough credit to the guy who's driving the carriage. No, I give a ton of credit for that guy. I give a ton of credit to the weird little

weird little guy who looks like he wandered over from Fiddler on the roof. To the actor, the character is a horrible person when a woman wants to leave and he's not, he's just allowing a man to keep her captive. I think he understands everything at stake here. Yeah. Maybe. But. At the end, Amore. So weird.

Amore a kidnapo. They went to abusive relationship. Oh, coercion. Italiano. Yeah. It's, um, that whole sequence is, um, uh, the weird fight scene where he's using the, uh, what do you call those? The barrier.

The barriers, yeah, to knock the guys off the bikes. Um, uh, the, uh, I love that he paid for the lilies and I assume the windows. Yes. Um, you can see that joke coming a mile away, but it's still fun when it, when it comes. I forget. I'm sure we talked about this last time, but there is this woman that will follow me on Twitter. And then a few months later, will follow me again.

Like clearly she's following and unfollowing to get followers. You know how people kind of do that. No, I don't. But she follows me in two separate accounts. And she's, I think that woman in the... No. Lily shop?

I believe. She's in this movie. She's either her or one of the like pool side girls. What are you saying with your mouth? She was there too. No, hold on. This is why I'm hesitant because we've talked about this before I brought it up. She has two Twitter profiles.

She'll follow me with both of them. One is Bond Girl, former Playboy. model and the other is Uber Christian conservative and I don't know if she's both or one Now hang on If you are a girl

Who was in a Bond movie That does not technically Make you a Bond girl We're talking about the woman who runs the floral She calls herself a Bond girl I agree with that Yeah I don't want to be a dick But I don't know if she was like a playmate

Like I don't know to what end She wrote a cartoon she did a cartoon If I can find her She won a caption contest. That's rough. That is rough. I can't summon her at all. I can picture the shop.

I cannot summon her at all. Light brown hair. Light brown feathered hair. She's in like a yellow sweater. I mean, that's a safe guy. I just not sure if that's the woman I'm talking about, but she did tweet at me once to something to the effect of either wanting to come on this podcast or I was there too and I can't remember.

Well, I think we should have her on at a undisclosed location. For our safety or hers? Everyone's. Okay. I mean, we can't let her in here. She'll steal this blow-filled wheelchair statue. That's right. Well, speaking of Fiddler on the roof,

Topo. Yeah. Oh, man, he's great in this. He is. He is so enjoyable. He's fun to watch. His choice to eat pistachios throughout the film is so delightful.

And I do wonder, I wonder how much of that was him saying, I need to do this. Yeah, it feels like that wasn't even in the script because he's basically saying, I smuggled diamonds. Diamonds gold, pistachios. And I feel like, can we just put pistachios in?

I want to have a little quirk. You know, a Bond villain quirk. But he's, but I wonder, here's, this is John Glenn, no? Yeah, his first. Yeah. So I wonder, what I feel like actually probably happened was he said,

I want to have these pistachios in the scene at my desk. And then John Glenn, not being a great director, was like, every scene, you're having these pistachios in every scene. He's like, you sure? He's like, yeah. Well, right in, because doesn't he throw him down and use him as a, like click track? Oh, yeah, that's right. He uses him to find out when the bad guys are coming in the safe house or whatever.

But also, what I love about him is that he chooses not to crack open the pistachians. No, he's all done in the mouth. It's all done in the mouth. He's tople. Yeah, that's Topol. Oh, what a bus. Listen, they all serve in the military, the Israelis. That's right.

The least, the least dangerous thing the man has ever done is open a pistachio with his teeth. The least dangerous thing without. So I'm a massive Topal fan anyway. I love the film of Fiddler on the roof. I adore Flash Gordon. Oh, yeah. Flash Gordon is really one of my top, probably one of my top ten movies. I adore that film.

I really think. think it is because it you know what interested to sidebar real quick it took me years to grasp this but but flash Gordon was my introduction to the idea of camp to the idea of like something is so over the top and so dumb did you realize that at the time I did and that's why it's such a thing I I was like and it was the moment where where Sam Jones puffs off his chest and goes I don't have time to go to anymore after rescue my friends and save the earth and I was like what is that talking yeah what is oh but I like it. It's dumb, but I like it. And so I don't have, like, I'm not quoting Susan Sontag when I'm nine. I just had an understanding that like, this is so grandiose and so over the top

and ridiculous that it comes around to the other side where it's actually quite good and entertaining. It has value. I did not catch it. I was a sincere fan of that as a young boy seeing that in a theater. I think I'm a couple years older than you. Yeah. And then, and then, yeah, I was able, I noticed the name Lorenzo Semple showing up on, on Batman. And that. That took me backwards to look at Batman again and be like, oh, same thing. All right. Speaking of great bluerreys, by the way, the Flash Gordon Blue Rays, a doozy. Oh, really?

That's funny. I just bought that one on iTunes, King of iTunes. King of iTunes. My wife saw Topal do Tevia not five years ago at the Pentagis. He still does it. He still. I wasn't even sure he was alive. He is still alive.

And she said it was like the first time he'd played the role. I believe he was a consummate professional. The girl who played his, if you've ever heard me on a podcast, you know I'm a big musical theater aficionado, bear with me. The girl who played his eldest daughter in the film was playing his wife 40 years later, playing Golda, his wife at the Pantages. And my wife saw it and said it was one of the best, like, performance she's ever seen. Oh, I would go see that.

Right? And he is, it's interesting because he lets you know pretty quickly that he's not the bad guy you think he is. But there's still something so sort of charming about him that you're not sure if he's telling the truth. It's an interesting dynamic. I really, I really like this part of the film a lot. So much so that I find the villain, what's his name, Glover? Donovan. It's not Julian Glover.

Julian Glover. I find him to be a disappointment. in the shadow of Topol. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He's just sort of a, it's sort of just standard cold, icy psychopath stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

But Topo's got that charming ass smile. Yeah, he's great. He's so likable. And we never talk about him when we talk about like the bond. Mentor allies. You guys just needed me, man. He's Israeli Felix Lider, man. He's a goddamn delight.

He's super fun. Even by the time they go to the base of that mountain to climb, the collection of the small group. You've got Topal, you've got Roger Moore, Carole Cay, and also these faces of his little three men that are with him. I describe them as if a police sketch artist was you described Davy Jones to a police sketch artist. And you get different versions by different artists.

That's incredible. I feel like, especially the guy that's up on top of the mountain that kicks Roger Moore down. Yeah. Reminds me of one of the guys. that was a regular on Sesame Street. And there's also one of Topol's guy is like John McEnroe. Looks like John McEnroe.

Oh, yeah, Maconroe or Will Ferrell. And then you're describing Davy Jones and that's everybody else in the movie. Yeah. But the way that they are dressed, because this is coming back from just getting back from Switzerland, where I found myself dressing kind of like this. I call it Commando Casual. It's all, it's the only way I want to dress. Sweaters and vests, like you kind of like, you have to be worn, but it's not freezing. Yeah.

Just like, it's either like, it's somewhere between photojournalist and like CIA covert ops or something. I don't know. I'll tell you, the vest is an underrated piece of material. It really is. Like, it's just, it's so functional, keeps your torso warm. Unfortunately for me, I get cold in my shoulders and my arms. Oh, no.

So a vest, you know, just thinking of kind of. We got to get you a thicker sweater. We talked for a moment about Charles Dance. Oh, yeah. Charles Dance shows up in this. Doing so little that you're like, oh, my God, this is really early Charles dance. It is.

I think it's one of his earliest role. But he's, what a face on that guy. Yeah, he's incredible. I've always known him as a, like, distinguished, interesting-looking gentleman, but here he's actually quite striking. Yeah. And that scene where he's pursuing him up, the ski jump. And he can't, like, he can't go after him because there's all the crowds there.

It works, I think. It's a really effective scene. Yeah, there's stuff in here that, even without the music, the suspense work, the action is well coordinated, the geography of the action is well done, you know, where everybody is in relation to everybody else, so that helps you under grasp the stakes. I think that comes from John Glenn first being an editor and then a second unit director who's having a lot of the action. They make terrific directors.

People who start out of editing or second unit stuff, because we've had a few of them actually, for what it's worth. We've got a few people who have come from those worlds on speechless because we have a different director every week, which is kind of fun. Do you meet all these people? And some of them have done some features. Most of them work in TV. But what you find with the people who have come from editing

is that they shoot the ass off a scene. They just shoot like 16 fucking angles and hours and hours of footage. Does that bum you out at all? It bums me out, but I also know it's going to work in the lawn run. It's a drag to do it, but you also know they're going to have a ton of options to cut together the best possible version. And then the second unit people treat you like props who eat.

And they're just like, you've got to run around this corner real quick. and then I need you hit that mark every single time. Don't look just boom. And it's all about like moving people around. So it's interesting that he came from both and made these pretty credible action sequences. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I don't find John Glenn's action directing to be lacking. I think he does a great job with the action.

Yeah, especially of that time. It does feel very of that time, but in the best way. Yeah. Yeah. I do find the rest of his direction to be a little. lacking. Yeah, I don't think he quite... And I can't put a finger on what it is.

It lacks depth, I guess, maybe. It's a little surface. Like, all... Because it's Roger Moore, too, it's like... Right. You know, this is the one film that we ever see Roger Moore go dark, and that's kicking lock off the mountain with the car that they, you know... Oh, right.

It was going over anyway. Huh? He couldn't stop that, you know? Just helped it. Yeah. It's a little quicker. Oh, that's right. Yeah, he does.

Yeah, I guess that is, yeah. I, um, it just feels sort of pedestrian the rest of the directing. It's just like, okay, we're going to shoot over your shoulder. We're going to shoot over your shoulder. Here's a wide. We're done. It's not particularly dynamic. No.

I always remember, too, when they are, it's when they're doing that raid with Topol and his men on that, like is it a heroin? Yeah. Barrels or whatever those are. And you see that giant diving bell suit. It always reminds me, oh, that's, right. We have a long underwater scene coming up. And that's where this film drags for me. It really does drag. And it's weird because I was trying to figure out why that scene sucks so

much because the stakes are there. They have eight minutes of air or something like that. They, you have a ticking clock, but then they ignore the ticking clock. And that scene's easily 16 minutes. Probably isn't, but it feels really long. There's no music. No music. He ignores his own advice. They come out of that submarine and says, speak only when necessary. And then he can't shut the fuck up. He narrates every damn thing. Thinking out loud for the whole thing. And then the guy comes in and it takes, and they, they fight him and they put the little

explosive charge on his helmet, but it takes forever to go off and you know it's coming. Yeah. But when it does finally come, it's a little anticlimactic, just kind of blows them out of the wreckage. That scene should be amazing. And it, because of the music, the placement and, yeah, something about it. It's automatically going to be in slow motion because it's underwater. So already you've got to play. against that and you can do that with

you know some strings or some goddamn brief you know wah-wa guitar Bill Conte you're criminal they shouldn't be we should not they shouldn't be allowed to shoot underwater anymore I know was that the last uh I mean think of him on

I mean even him underwater in Casino Royale is a little like I mean the stakes are there oh but that's so quick and it's like in the middle of the thing yeah that's right that's really quick, though. Yeah.

And that's high high high. But he's moving very slowly. Well, it's water. They're not even underwater in this movie. I know we talked about that last time, too, but she had like a sinus issue. So all of her close-up shots are shot out of water on a set with a fan in slow motion and bubbles dubbed in later. Wow. Yeah.

Yeah, that's right. I remember reading that shit, a sinus thing. Yeah, that scene is a clunker. It also doesn't quite track that those bodies are so well preserved, having been underwater for a couple of weeks in that point, right? Yeah, you think those would be food. Right? Yeah, it, that is where the film starts to kind of grind for me a little bit.

Anytime they're underwater in any part of the franchise. It really. Even in Skyfall, the underwater fight in Skyfall, which is lit beautifully. Yeah, it's just slow. Yeah. We're not big underwater. No. It's also the problem of the most of the moon raker action

in space. Zero gravity. Yeah. Zero G of it all. And the fact that like I just, again, I'll say it a thousand times but you don't move slower in zero G. Stop pretending that you do. If you can get your hand on something, you can move faster than you can on Earth.

There's no resistance. Very good point. All right. Thank you very much, Dr. Tyson. You're welcome. Let's talk about the size of Q's hands. This is a recurring segment here where we one point noticed that Q's hands are enormous. Yeah, disproportionately enormous.

And so we set golden eyes the standard. And you may not have noticed in this film, because I think they're relatively small. They're still huge. Yeah. But I'd give him a golden eye minus 2.5. Well, you know, I actually thought about this man, and I actually have to go a golden eye minus one.

And it's from the typing. Yeah. It does look like he's really hitting two keys every time he wants to hit one. That's a fair thing, because I had forgotten until we got to the priest scene when he pulls off his beard, so I was only going off that. Oh, sure, sure, sure. I think I'll defer to you on this.

Yeah. You know, so much so now, John, that when you Google Desmond Llewellyn, the first suggested thing in Google is hands. Really? Yeah, we've done it. You've talked about this so much. You did that? Wow.

We've marked his legend. Wow. His legacy has been ruined. I stand to be corrected, Desmond, Llewelland died in a car crash. He did. Nothing crueler. I can't think of a crueler irony. I know.

Driving back from a book signing. Oh, God. What a way. Holy face. Speaking of cars blowing up and car accidents. Yes. I do want to talk about the anti-theft, anti-burglary. Yeah.

Lotus situation where the glass is very breakable by the butt of a gun. Yeah. But if you break that glass, the car will blow up. Yeah. That's the way it works. I'm assuming you have to arm that because if you get in a minor fender. Doesn't he arm it? Doesn't he like hit the button?

I feel like he goes. I feel like it's like a beep-b-bo-bo-bo-bo-bo-bo. I feel like there's... I feel like that's where pre-bo-po-po-bo-po-poo. Yeah, I think it is. I feel like you were manually locking car. I mean, granted, he's got the quartermaster

helping him out, but I feel like it still feels a little early for 1981. In my brain. But that was, wasn't that John Glenn's big addition to this film where he was talking about how much car jackings had become a problem? Well, car theft in New York at the time was a huge thing, and he talks about the reception in the theater

when this came out where everybody in New York was just, well, John, you saw this in New York. Did everyone cheer? I don't remember. I don't remember the lotus glow enough. I don't remember that moment how that played. It's weird what I do remember. I remember the audience reacting to the funny stuff, oddly enough.

So I remember the, I'll go buy you an ice cream. I remember the audience reacting to the ending. Almost there. But I don't remember how they reacted to the various explosive things. Yeah. Yeah, it's a, look, it's completely. worth it because it puts them into that tiny little roller skate they end up conducting the rest of the so they buy it back with another lotus there's immediately another he immediately has access to the baroon lotus

oh that's right with two sets of skis yeah you never know who he's going to meet out there that's true that's true kew's got his back yeah uh okay so let's do the oh i want to do talk about the rock climbing that i that might be one of my favorite sequences in and it's good in all of Roger Moore's action. Oh, really? Yeah. I just love his outfit. I don't know what it is.

I just love his outfit. You love a barber vest. And sweater. Oh, so good. But just the idea of like, you know, I found myself just frustrated as a fat person. Just the idea of each time that guy knocked one of those pings out of the rock face. Yeah. The fact that he had to start over again.

I just was like, I just kept feeling so sad for him. Yeah. It's like, whatever you put on, the two pounds, you love. lost, it's like, oh, fuck, here I go again. I got to go back on this low carpet. It's an interesting sequence of because it is genuinely suspenseful. It really, it ages very, very well. The long shot of him falling is amazing.

They talk about that on the documentary. It's amazing. Rick Sylvester, did a lot of skydiving stunts in the other movies. It was very unsure how this thing was going to work because it was like one of the first decelerating things that they just used a rope that's like got sandbags on it. It wasn't even a machine or anything like that. Or it was wrapped in a cloth.

I forget how it goes. They later did it in, is it Sharkey's machine with Dara Robinson where they had this machine that slowly decelerated. So he does this high fall off a building and never has to hit an airbag because they cut before he decelerates. But this was just some like Mickey Mouse, Rub Goldberg version of it. And you can tell when he retells the story, he's kind of going like, yeah, it turned out okay. But in retrospect, you can see him feeling like, I can't believe those fuckers did that to me.

And I signed on for it. It's insane. It's one of the best shots in the movie. It's great. Yeah, it's really effective and it's really scary. And it's also, it's such a fun use of the location, too. Yeah. Like we have to get up to that weird beaut up there and we can only go this way.

And it just works on every level. It reminds me that he shot the second unit on the film before Spy Who Love Me when they did the parachute ski jump thing. It's very sort of similar in scope to that. Yeah. And I also liked him taking his shoelaces off and climbing. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. So cool. Yeah. Well, that I think is something that I appreciate more now than I did at the time. Because, you know, at the time, I was like, you should have a gadget. He should have like a little pocket jetpack or something.

But this is a more lo-fi econo bond. And that's a great moment. Any other movie. Any other movie, his shoe would have had a grappling hook in it. Yeah. You're right. Oh,

that's me. Sorry. All right. Yeah. So we get to the ending. Topal kills Christados. This is an interesting sort of like reverse

Thunderball where she's about to kill him where Domino kills Largo in Thunderball. She doesn't get this satisfaction, but it's almost framed as you're better off because you don't have to do the Chinese double grave.

Yeah, Yeah, you don't need a cable group, yeah, sure. Be ready to get and dig those too. Topol shooting somebody in the back is great cinema. That's just terrific. Yeah. It's, you don't see him after that. It's presumed that he's just kind of passing out, right?

Who, Topal? You see him after that? You do? Yeah. And Bond goes, looks like you found a new sponsor. Oh, that's right. Oh, yeah. And Topal winks at the camera.

Oh, how can I forget that? Come on. Bibi. Oh, that's gross. Even more gross. Yeah. Because, you know, Topal. is in for that.

Tobol just lost. Tobol lost the contessa. He lost his contessa. So he lost his contessa. So that needs someone to care for at this point. Yeah, it's gross. Yeah. But he,

yeah, he thrives. And then we, you know, we get rid of the, the, the McGuffin, and that's, that vanishes, and that helps. And then on to... That's the first time

they'd encountered each other, huh? The Russian head of the CGA, is it? And Bond? Because there should have been more of a recognition. Like for that guy to land and expect James Bond to hand him the machine, crazy. So this must be the first time they'd encounter each other.

He's been in the films before, but yeah, I can't remember if they've met. But then... But also he should know what James Bond looks like. We get Margaret Thatcher. Apparently this was a very popular Margaret Thatcher impersonator. Yeah. She like was doing, she'd like do the talk show rounds and stuff. and the idea of just having her mid-dinner prep,

swatting her husband's hand away as he reaches over for... Yeah, and she's cooking. It's so out of sync with this film and out of tone. And she's talking to a parrot. On its own, it's really well done. I don't know if I can go there. I don't know if I can go that far with you, man. I don't know if I...

But I thought her... It just takes me out of it. And it just like... This movie has so clearly been sucking its own dick for being like, we're grounded. We're a new bond now. We're putting it back down to earth. And then, oh, and by the way, a Margaret Thatcher impersoner is going to talk to a parrot who she thinks is bond. Yeah.

If there was ever an argument for discovering post-credit tag sequences before its time, this would be it. Like, bury this after the credits. Oh, totally. Yeah. Yeah. No, in a Marvel movie, I'd be far more forgiving of this. Far more forgiving. but it is just so odd.

And even though they've established the parrot. Oh, my God. If they, in Infinity War part due, when they're going to put that one out, if they put a post-credit sequence of a Trump impersonator calling to thank the Avengers. Like they should have done that in all these because Diamonds of Rever set in America during the Nixon administration. Right, right. Him in there.

What took so long. Yeah, it is, I remember people just howling in the movie theater, eating it up. Yeah, and that's even America. Imagine what they did in England. I know, right? God. And I love that you can tell Dennis and also the Margaret Thatcher impersonator, they're probably in their early 30s. Oh, totally.

It's really, it's spectacular. You forget that that's, you forget that exists in a canon. Yeah. I actually, it was one of the big things I remembered about it was, and I remember when we confirmed that via email, I was like, this is the one with the Margaret Thatcher impersonator. Is it not? I wanted my reply to be, oh, yes, friend. I would never not give you that.

Oh, boy. Yeah, it's a weird, tonal shift. Yeah. But it's funny, I got to say, the middle part, aside from the abuse

of the disabled and the Margaret Thatcher that bookends the film, I enjoyed so much more than I did upon its initial release. Me too. I got to agree.

Then let's give it a rating from 000 to 007, being best. Where would you put this film? Do we do decimals? You can. Absolutely do. Okay, I'm going to go

205.4. Interesting. Nice. I think those bookends really drag it down quite a bit. But I think the stuff that works works really well.

And I think he looks great for, he's like, what, 51, 52? in this? This is, he's 53. He's 53. Oh, baby. 52.

Who knows when his birthday is? A 005.4. That's very close to where I am. Me too. Me too. I'm actually going to just go with a solid dead even 005 for me. As am I.

I put down 005 within parentheses 0.5, question mark. Because this shot so far up in my esteem since the last time I've watched it. Yeah. But I think you write those bookends and there's always the score. It's not the bookend for me. It's the underwater. That too.

Yeah. That knocks the point off. Yeah. But, but O5 is a respectable showing. Very. With an average of, I guess, what, double 05.2. What are your 007s?

We haven't had one yet. We haven't done it yet. You haven't had a double O seven. Not even Skyfall? We haven't issued a 007. We've issued some 006.5s. All right. Yeah.

My 007s probably come. soon. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So, John, tell us where people can find you, and we know we can find you weekly on speech lists on ABC. When we start back up again.

Yeah, we'll be back this fall, it turns out, so that's exciting. I don't even know what our time slot is. We hope to have you right smack after us. I'm going to go to the Goldberg. It's a nice little place. It's a nice little place to be. On the socials at John Ross Bowie. And, yeah, I'm just kicking a round.

around the occasional hot yoga class this summer, you know. I'll just be, uh, and this takes some me time. You don't want to say? In the valley? I don't want to say. You'd think I do it in the valley. You would think every yoga you do in the valley is a hot yoga valley, my friend. But yeah, it's, yeah, I'm just going to be bumming around this summer and then,

uh, eagerly getting back to work probably August for a late September air date. Just enjoy, enjoy this hiatus. I think I shall. You know, you have that on the hiatus too? No, I go back. You're checking your watch. I literally go back in like a week and a half or something like that. Really?

Yeah, we start writing. Oh, wow. But we gotta get some of those commentaries. I know. Like, we'd have to do it this week, essentially. That's not going to happen. So, yeah, but John, enjoy the hiatus. Thank you, I shall.

Like, look at this time. You have, you have, you're an actor. You've got steady work coming. You got a whole summer to fuck around in hot yoga. That's the plan. That is the plan. That's what you work for. You know what I will?

Honestly, I'm not just saying this because of where I, I am, this did wet my appetite to go back in and re-watch some bond movies. What do you think? What's your first going to be? I'm going to go back to the Moors. I'm going to go back to the Moors and I'm going to watch the Timothy Dalton's I've never seen, I think.

Oh, wow. Let us know how you feel about those, because I know that's when you kind of made your break, but that first one... I don't think it was necessarily Timothy Dalton's fault. They just caught me the wrong time, you know? You might enjoy living daylights. It's kind of in line with this and that it's back to Fleming.

And if you want to see a reactionary James Bond movie, you watch yourself a license to kill. Yeah, that's right. That's a reactionary to all 80s drug dealer villains. Also because it's sort of had, Michael Kamen does the score, which is another kind of like Conti of the 80s. Right, right. You know, yeah. Well, John, thank you so much for doing this. My pleasure.

It was a really pleasure. Mattie? Matt, we got to talk about what we're going to watch next. That's right. It's your choice. Yeah, it's only got three left. I know. What are the three again?

Bye, who loved me. Thank you. and then... And Quantum of Solis. Well, you know, I think we're going to do this the way we thought we were going to end up doing this. We're going to watch The Spy Who Love Me Next. And that's right. We'll save the first two Craigs for the last two films.

Yeah. So it's time to go back to 1979. And then we figure out if we're going to start the engine over again. Oh, boy. Is that even up to us? I don't know. It might be up to God. That for sure.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If he's out there. Well, this was a very fun episode. And James Bonding will return. Hey, this is Arnie Necamp from the Improft Fantasy podcast. Hello from the Magic Tavern.

I fell through a dimensional portal behind a Burger King in Chicago into the magical land of food. And I started a podcast. Season three has just begun with a brand new adventure to defeat the dark lord. If you're a new listener or you've fallen behind season three is a great jumping on point. And we've got great guests like Justin McElroy. I sat like a fancy college professor. Eight Nats. Rachel Bloom.

You all see my collection of men, corpses, and one woman. Felicia Day and Colton Dunn. You've seen me have intercourse with a variety of species. It's a bummer. Andy Daly. You have the members of Genesis listed. But Phil Collins has crossed out and then circled he crossed out again. Yes, I have killed Phil Collins twice.

Thomas Middletch. Jesus, I mean, Jazzos. Ruler of the Eighth Circle. And that's just the beginning. Season three, Aphalo from the... The Magic Tavern is out now. Listen in Stitcher, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.