James Bonding - INDIANA JONESING: DIAL OF DESTINY

Episode Date: July 1, 2023

James Bonding presents: Indiana Jonesing! Well, it's 2 to 1 here at Indiana Jonesing and things are divisive for Indy's last time in the saddle! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Matt and Matt and James Bonding Podcast. Myra, Goreley, Goreley, Mara. James Bonding podcast, it's the James Bonding podcast. He's back in the saddle for one last round, and so are we. We were promised that last time. We were promised it was his final adventure last time. Listen, let's get the listeners up to speed. We had plans, all three of us, to go see it together.

as you can tell my voice is a little how would you describe it? Sexy? Yeah, I would say that. I would say that. I wasn't feeling well so I basically sponsored a date for you two to go without me last night.

What's interesting is someone had seen it before us. I had. And then chose not to go the second time. No. I want to see it again. We haven't discussed any of our viewpoints on this other than I can tell from the tone from your text that where you guys are headed with this

and that I'm going to be playing defense this whole time. No, I don't, it's not a, um, a full defense. Okay. You know, in the text, we had to keep it close to the best. Yeah. Choices were made. Um, I, I, I, I am, record, this is Paul. Yeah.

Yeah. Paul Russ. I'm Matt Corley. Man, Myra. And I'm, uh, recalling, um, uh, many years ago I saw the town, uh, with, uh, my friend, uh, Neil Campbell. And, you know, we laughed at the town. We had a little snark fest during the,

the movie. And then lo and behold, you know, a week later, uh, my buddy Harris Whittles, he had just seen the town. Love the town. I don't know. I love the town too. Okay. Okay. But I had to like take a step back. Hey, I, I, I love all the, I trust everybody's opinion, right? All of them are valid. But, uh, there is something. It's more a note about this curious moviegoing experience that I think is actually really cool. which is when you go and see it with an audience of people, you have your own experience with them. Or the person you sit next to,

you have your own experience. And that filter is like a different thing in terms of how you go see movies with people. I mean, yeah. Let me first set the scene for the 3 p.m. showing in Glendale. At the look dine in cinema. Who have done me wrong the last few times I've gone there. Really?

Oh. I don't even, I don't know. How could they possibly? Went to see Asteroid City. first time Amanda and I have had a movie date in so long. 15 minutes to the end. The sound just goes out. Oh, no.

So we sit there for a while. Okay, this will come back in. It doesn't come back in. I go out there. They say, sorry, power outage. I'm going, but the video's still playing. Then I just see two alarm security texts come out of a closet with wire cutters. So they weren't making it up.

Also, we were starving and we planned to eat because it's just to dine in, theater, press the service button, no one ever came. Then I asked for a refund and he said, well, you only lost five minutes of the movie. I said, no, we lost 15 minutes and they were the last 15 minutes. Do you have your ticket stuff? No, I didn't keep it. Well, I'm sorry. I just said, give me a refund. And he finally did. What is up with that? Rough, right? It had been five minutes of the trailer and that person, of a trailer before a movie. Just go, who gives a shit? Just make your customer happy. Also, when I couldn't go with you guys.

there's no phone number or email where you can contact them directly and they know what they're doing. I couldn't get a refund for those tickets, which is fine. I like, I sponsor, I paid for you guys to have a little date. And I'm glad about that. There is, look, look, I have to say, there's no, when I, when I checked in, when I checked in by myself of the five tickets we had, I said, I said, is it okay if I just check in one of the tickets and my friend will be here soon. And he goes, yeah, that's fine. You just want to go across there to the first theater. I'm like, I'm good. I don't need anything. He's like, no, I walk in.

There's nobody checking any tickets. It's the Wild West. He just waltz right in and sit down. And yet they really care about holding on to that money when the movie breaks. It's a walk in like a parade up and down. I mean, there were when Paul arrived, there were 12 people in the theater. How many were there? total by the time you guys, because I was in a fairly packed house. Oh, wow. 3.30. This makes me sad. I was

looking forward to going. I should mention I did a really dumb thing last weekend. I played adult league soccer and found out that I have something that just sounds made up called exercise-induced bronchitis, which is basically I'm allergic to sports. You have exercise. I had exercise-induced asthma when I was a kid. That's what it is. Yeah. Yeah. And I've always, just assumed because whenever I played extreme like cardio sports that this would happen, that I was just out of shape. But I've been really getting into shape. And this time I cried foul. Like, wait a minute. I've been running. I've been training what's going on here. Found this out. Anyway, it floored me for a week and that's why I couldn't make it. And I'm sorry,

guys. Wow. Well, you know, it's interesting because the, the sound of that is close to the Harrison Ford growl that he is now. So it matches. It fits. Maybe you shouldn't have invaded Poland. Unlike the first 25 minutes of the movie where it doesn't fit. That's a good way to start on with that because that was the first thing that threw me out was the voice doesn't match the head. And the head doesn't match the body. The shoulders. When that bag first comes off and he doesn't move, it looks amazing.

Then he starts speaking and you kind of go. I'd say there are a dozen times in that opening where I am legit. Wow. Yeah. I don't see any. of the scenes. And it's usually when he's like, they do the cinematic lighting of half,

half lit, half dark. Yeah. And when it's half lit, half dark, I could usually buy it. But most of the time, whatever, it's the old complaint.

People have been making sense Polar Express. It's just the dead eyes. I know. And you, you, it's so funny that it's a special effect we're seeing, but the special effect

since the beginning of cinema guys is an actor's eyes. That is the same. special effect. Movie studios pay for. It's why we buy our tickets. And when that is robbed, I truly don't know why

you can't do mocap skin, but just keep the... Are they not keeping his current eyes? Those eyes have... They match some sort of... There is no twinkle. Yeah, I'm sure they're having to... Because it must have to match...

Yeah. And then it's funny when it doesn't match the other people in the scene. Like, they don't have... whatever that digital glazes. So you're like, is he just another being? Here's what I decided it was. After Rogue One with Grandma Targan when they did that in Rogue One,

I figured it out. He's the only one in the scenes that's not wearing makeup. Because they animate him to have every freckle, every pot of visible. And an uneven complexion like the man himself had. but everyone in the scene is covered in fucking makeup except for him. Right. So that took it, that, for me, I was like, oh, is this the uncanny Valley situation that I'm noticing? They need digital makeup technicians that aren't prosthetic makeup.

They're like, oh, we'd put a little corrective this. Just run it through an AI. Yeah, fine. And then whatever sort of enhancements, like maybe they wouldn't want to put an ugly freckle or wrinkle. so there is choices that are made where he looked too close to last crusade. The rendering was like too close to Last Crusade. That's what they used. Yeah, I wanted it more, whatever would have been.

It would have been mad. I said to Matt, I was like, you know, in The Simpsons when Bart gets an F and he makes it an A. And then Homer sees it and he goes, oh, you could have turned that F into a B easily. You just got greedy with the A. I felt like they got greedy with like making him, like, I just put a little more age on the rendering, but I didn't know this about, so they used the Last Crusade and that was why. They used footage from the movies and unused footage and outtakes,

mostly from Last Crusade, but they also used some Star Wars. But I think, if I'm not mistaken, they actually tried to match some shots. So you see it when, I think it's when Indy first has the bag taken off of him and he looks up to the side. it's very similar to that last crusade shot. So they're kind of like really trying to match the lighting and the positioning so that they would have less AIing to do, I think.

That was good. Yeah. Before I forget, Myra just, he blew my mind with an observation, which I haven't poked around online to see what the, but the parallel of the Kylo Ren, Han Solo story with Mutt and. This whole thing. I was like, oh, Harrison Ford as a, as a beloved character who's divorced from a fan favorite

because of the son that both of them couldn't keep on track here. Is that funny? I was like, where have I seen this before? Oh, yeah, I just saw it in fucking Star Wars. And that's not even a criticism. I'm just saying like, whatever that kind of how it shaped. Yeah. Shia LeBuff and, uh, we should say spoiler alert.

Obviously. Yes, yes. Well, no. I mean, it's like, I just don't understand. I hate the idea of, I don't know. If Shilabuff was like, they just didn't want to work with him again or whatever, I hope it was that and not, well, the fans didn't respond to him, so we're not going to put him in the movie.

Oh, I think he's a little radioactive right now. So should Indy be after that nuky in the fridge. I can't believe he's lived this long. But like, I mean, in the category of stuff I love, though, I liked how they unspooled that. information about how, like, that it never was, I was,

I thought that was the best piece of, uh, dialogue or whatever, but I, I'm not saying I'm super savvy or anything. I picked it up right away. Oh yeah, the flag in the picture.

The folded flag in the picture. You're right away, you go, oh man, he's dead. Yeah. I thought, I really liked that.

How they never had to, um, hold the hand of the audience. Uh, the way it was just speculated and hypothesized and received. And then seeing through her eyes, how she found that out.

That was very moving to me. I really, that I, but, um, well, I know this isn't like a, a good thing to say about a movie, but it could have been worse than that they could, he could have woken up at the end. And Helena could have brought him back

pre-Mut Williams' death. They might have. I would have enjoyed it better. Really? I like, because it would have been a less shitty place to leave the character. Instead, they just left the character in that shitty apartment.

No, he's getting back with Marion. I think that's his bachelor's apartment since he's been separated. And they're rekindling what? And they're saying lines from a movie that we all know and enjoy, but they've forgotten long since. No, they don't remember that. I didn't even think about that aspect. I didn't have to think of us.

Come on, have a heart. I did think of it. That's right. They probably had many moments like that throughout there. This is not for them. This is for us. And that removes me from the movie. Would you rather have it been he pulls out a date?

And she goes, what's this? It's a date. You eat it. You know what I... Might as well. Might as well. When she said the dates thing earlier, he's like, look at this. This calendar's full of dates.

And she's like, dates. I went in him go, bad dates. A lot of date talking through it. But, yes, as far as that ending goes, so I just put something in the category I love, the little how they revealed the... Now this is a category of stuff. But do it was, yeah, out of the last three endings, we've gotten... that have been supposedly the punctuation work.

Truly the worst of the last, the most depressing. Oh my God, it's so sad. Objectively, righting after the sunset with your father and your friends into the sunset, getting married to the love of your life and you have your son with you. And you're like being in a fucking shitty New York apartment on the verge of 1970. In the fucking summer. In the sweltering. Imagine four years from then.

He's going to be like dog day afternoon. No, no. He's moved with Marion and her, their former house in upstate New York. They've got a little farm. Helena kind of comes and goes. Teddy's moved in by this point. He's their little grandchild. Teddy the murderer?

Wait, let's start from the beginning. I love all of this. I'm going to go to bat for this movie because I will say I generally really liked it. There were a few things. I didn't love the. last two-thirds. I didn't like the whole visiting Archimedes time. I didn't mind that.

I didn't mind that. What about the last, I like the battle at the end? I just wasn't feeling good about indie being back in time. I felt a little too far. I did love it. I love your Cota at the end though, the Marion thing I did really like. I love your point of view in that, dude. That's awesome. I love it all this.

That ending was the most thrilling part for me is when they went. to start with something. Okay. Okay. So let's go back to the beginning of the movie. That prologue is 25 minutes long. But it's fun.

Okay. You didn't like it? Here's the thing. No. You guys didn't like it. There's an 80-something-year-old Harrison Ford's voice coming out of young Harrison Ford. I think they treated it a little. I think they.

They might have sprinkled more gravel in it. I remember thinking, wow, that doesn't sound like an 80-year-old Harrison Ford. That's interesting. The motorcycle car. chase thing. It was so absurdly CGI. Too many chases.

Too many chases in this movie. And it was shot so frenetically without any real geography to show us what is happening. I will say I agree with this. I really missed Spielberg's clarity of action. Big time. A thousand percent.

It's not like this is a bad. There's just you realize how good Spielberg would have done this during the day. He wouldn't have said it at night. I think they had to because of the CG because of the face. Spielberg would have figured it out. No.

Well, there's a reason why they did a lot of Jurassic Park during the night. The whole T-Rex in Jurassic Park had to be doing. They got, and like Paul said, they did get greedy with that Indiana Jones because there were so many shots where we could have just used the body double from the back and it would have been totally fine. Yeah, the lack of clarity and lack of like spirit or charm that the Steven Spielberg action sequences are in the Indiana Jones movie. I felt that there. And I also, like, it was, you know, when we went and saw Raiders and it was on the big screen and just like appreciating like everything I'm seeing up until the big blowout melt face at the end is like, oh my God, that's real sweat going down Indiana Jones's face. And I'm just imagining them in the desert busting their asses. and I didn't see any like grit or object were,

it just, it all felt, I know this is easy to say, but just like a cartoon video game kind of thing where physics weren't totally. I guess after Crystal Skull, I was just expecting this. And so for this version of Indy, I wouldn't put this movie up with the original trilogy. But I think after Crystal Skull, I felt quite pleased to have one more ride

because I thought Harrison Ford did a really good job in this. There was a couple of moments that were old school. Like I loved when the thing got wrapped around him and then it started to fall. And then he got up back off and he had to untie it before it felt like it. Like there was some cool like, yes, but then what happened? Right out of diehard. That was good.

But the Indiana Jones theme kicked in for the first time. And it's a wide shot of him riding a motorcycle. across the train and the dark. Same with like you never had a moment of seeing him put his hat and jacket on again. It was just kind of be brought out. And I was like, the like big return moments I didn't get at the beginning that I wanted. Like whatever that theme kick it in, I wanted to be.

Because his back was against the wall and he came back. But sorry, Matt. No, no. I don't like the problem. I just want to be clear with everybody listening that. not, I'm not, I'm not trying to poke those stupid logic holes in things that people poke. Like how that, how do you survive that train fall? You know what I mean?

How did he? That's fine. It's all fine. I'll buy all of that. But my problem is like it needs to be shown to be in a more clear Indiana Jonesy way. Yeah, I will agree with that. I was definitely missing Spielberg. I didn't love the Roman section.

And then, then at the end. We're not there yet. I know. I'm just saying then there's one other thing that bumped. These are the only three things that bumped me. Oh, I'm going to get you more. Hang on. I know you will because then I'm going to go to some things I love.

One of them was, this was just disappointing to me that the big guy, the big thug. Big German guy murdered by a child. Yep. Continue. Yes. But in self-defense. I was definitely... I was definitely...

I was definitely expecting that guy to have... Indy to have to fight that guy. And this time we get to see an 80-year-old Indy or 70-year-old Indy going, how do I fight a big guy like this now? Because in Crystal Scully fights a big guy. He fights a big guy in everyone, but I think not Last Crusade.

It's a thing to fight the big guy. And I really just assumed, even when he got handcuffed, they didn't show him dying. I just thought he's going to be back and Indy has to fight this guy. I thought he was going to be able to come back to. I wonder if they cut it or something.

I mean, there were additional shooting after the rat. Like, they went back. Yeah, there were reshoots. Because that guy's seven foot three. He's amazing. You don't just handcuff that guy to an undersea great. That's one of those, yeah, missed opportunities. You do if you're a child and you want a straight-of-mur-mur-old.

Because, yeah, that would have been awesome to see how does he now take on? And the guy's big. It's like a Rocky Four or something. Yeah. That dude, also it was cool, like, just in terms of, I was thinking with this, like, Hey, more Indiana Jones movies, more data points. So you know what I mean? So you just go like, okay, that's a henchman.

If you just even look at going back to James Bonding with you guys, like when does the Indiana Jones movie pull, take something from Bond? This was the most like Bond villain henchman, I thought. Like he, like that seemed to be pulled from the movie. I was like, well, that's a new wrinkle to this, but it would have been cool to see that guy get his ass kick. Yeah. And then there were a couple things about how...

Hang on. What? We just got to like take a few steps back here. Okay, I'm sorry. Because before we even... I was just doing general thoughts. Before we even meet giant German guy. Your general thoughts are very specific.

You're right. So you like to be very specific things. Well, I do have one general thought. It's just that the exposition and understanding of the... Anticathira, is that right? It was not very clear. And I wasn't, and I also wasn't following who these agents were in the beginning. Like, why was the guy on crutches, who was he?

And I get that they eventually were working for Voler and that the black agent wasn't, right? Okay. Half of them, there was some CIA and so. It just wasn't super clear. Right. And this is a problem. My one general thought? Yes.

I just didn't have a moment. in the movie. I love in all the other Indiana Jones movies, there's always at least, I mean, Raiders and Lost Target's like a dozen and a half of these, 500 of these moments. But in Crystal Skull,

I would even get a couple. There was no point where I kind of got like so swept away and like lifted up. The tucktuck chase didn't, I loved the tucktuck chase. So, but you know what? It's tough map because

I can only go by my heart. I can only go by my gut. Like what my instinct was. And I'm like, I left the theater being like, oh, man, I never got transported into cinematic action world nirvana of just like, whoa, I'm being fucking blasted out of space with this movie. Did you guys feel that I felt the dialogue was way better than Crystal Stall. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There was some jokes. There was real wit and some stuff.

I like that. There's an inherent problem in this movie when no one surrounding the character of Indiana Jones is likable. Oh, really? You didn't like Helena? she was a monster what about Teddy I thought Teddy he's a murderer oh this again

he's a thieving murder like you don't like you don't like put indie with like thieving murderers and like it's like he's teaming up with belloc this is crazy Matt oh I'm sorry

someone was after the antiquities for the glory and the money oh yeah yeah that's not Belok at all I thought she was supposed to be kind of like Indy fortune and glory like Temple of Doom this is like not in a bad way I just like I thought she was supposed to be like

combination of Willie from Temple and Doom, and this is no, this is in your category of that's not a good choice. You know, it's like she's part Willie Scott, but also, yeah, yeah, the whatever fortune and glory indie version of Doom. I also want to say, I love Phoebe Waller Ridge and I think she's great in this movie, but I think the character is written so unlikable. Really? I didn't find it. I didn't find it that way. She is responsible for getting two innocent people murdered, which never happens in an Indiana Jones movie. People are always signed up. People know what they're going into.

You don't have people randomly getting shot and killed in the middle of whatever Indies involved in ever unless they're Nazis. Yeah, that was a little... It was absurd. It was a need... It was a dial-up that I didn't need nor request. And you can have these henchmen be bad henchmen in the normal ways. bad henchmen are bad henchmen.

They don't want to be fucking shooting everybody in New York. Yeah, they're off their rockers. We know they're off their rockers. They're hanging out with the 90s. It was the 70s in New York. Crime was pretty bad. It's funny you just said 70s because the choice of Helena I like in like theory, maybe not execution because it feels like a Raiders,

like 70s movie type of thing of having a character there who is somebody. who, like, for me, it's not that she, uh, it's not the unlikability or is, the deal breaker. It's that like, it's not clear or like, interest. The roguishness wasn't like as interesting

to me, maybe because I didn't know where felt at some point, it's like a little like Mac when I'm just kind of like, what's the clarity of their much dynamic together? And then also, I mean, same. Phoebe Wall Bridge. So funny.

So talented. And like the wit in that script, I'm sure comes from her. And I'm so happy it was there. And it's not snark and kind of marvel talking out of the side of your mouth. Reference shit isn't in there is thank God. I, you know, love it. But I said to Matt when we got out, like, you know, in Last Action Hero, there's that joke of like, in Jack Slater 4. he's like, my second cousin has been kidnapped that I have to get.

I was like, to go from Father and Last Crusade, son and Crystal Skull to God daughter. It's just such a great. Like, it sounds like a joke. You're like, I'm teaming up with my God daughter. There's no expression from the character. There's no expression from the character either of like, of like, actually like, having loved her father at any point? Like there's none of that.

There's a line about where were you. But all of this was to arrive at the end where they realized she doesn't want the money. She wants to help him and she wants to be with him. Like you can see that at the end. But that happens off screen. No, it happens at the end when they're there with Marion. There's like a next scene.

And then she's somehow a changed person. The innocent people getting killed. The sharper point sharper. Yeah. Like make it a little pokeyer. Like that's what I mean by the 70s thing. There's too much collateral damage in the movie. That thing about the.

civilians getting killed. I didn't like either, but there is plenty of precedent for it. All those Indians in Crystal Skull, and then there's like the Sultan's men in Last Crusade that have to go in and get decapitated. They're not there for any reason. At least the natives in Crystal Skull are there with weapons and are there to defend the ground. Yeah, I didn't like it either. It's not like we walked into an office where a few Native Americans are sitting around suddenly getting gunned down by Nazis. That's not what happened. You know that. There's like I just couldn't and that happened so early in the movie that I just like was like, what is this? And I couldn't quite figure it out. But then when we got more scenes with Helena, I was like, oh, oh, she's unlikable. And she's

I just, I just didn't feel that way. Because when they're doing the tuck tuck chase and that gun that Indy kicks against the rail of the tuck-tuck that shoots the driver of that guy's he might not even be in the mob maybe he's good friend of guy like there's no he's not a Nazi but those guys with him were trying to shoot

them with Rahim were trying to stop the tuck-tuck like to get Helena back to hang out who knows who knows let me throw this I like there was a theme in the beginning

that I thought was pretty great about this landing on the moon. And I know they kind of did this with the nuclear agent, Lasgur, say, but very clearly it's like the world has moved to the future and here's a guy who only cares about the past. Where does he, he doesn't have a place. He's done. He's lost everything. He did have a place with Archimedes, but the unlikable character took that from him. Okay.

And then he's lost, he has nothing. And by the end, he's found, he's family. By the end, he still has nothing but Mary. He's married. He is Helena. He has Teddy. He has a certain amount of peace. What a way to do Sala wrong. He comes from being like this prominent Egyptian who had this awesome dig company, this excavation company to living the American dream of 17 people in an apartment and he's a cab driver. It's like, what are you doing to these characters? Why are you putting everybody in a position where I'm just like, I feel mad for you. I didn't feel that. I like starting indie, you know, with whatever, just having any kind of choice and that it lines up sort of probably.

What Harrison Ford as a man and as an actor and people of his generation just living life at that point, looking down at those hippies, is probably kind of like looking over at these woke kids and capturing that sort of looking at those two moments happening at the same time and we can think about it. He doesn't even. You can bring that. I didn't mind that. To go from the, like, it seems to suggest,

Indy always wants to be part of the old world and he can't move on into the modern world. You know, whatever, you can argue that choice, good or bad. But like, it's not like the Raiders of Lost Dark or Temple of Doom, which are really, really fun. ever bothered too much with like how Indy's feeling in his life. Well, I guess I like that. They had shown that everything you thought about Andy has changed. His students don't like him anymore. He's teaching it a shi-year-carriage.

I like that it's like a different choice. I'm just saying I don't know if I felt that's where really indie. And then this goes to the thing that's going to be the hard thread through all of this is just like I'm watching. And I go, well, Stephen Spielberg and George Lucas aren't at the wheel. And I have to accept that in my heart of heart. But when it opens with Indian the apartment, I just, I have to go, this isn't the original chef's mix. This isn't their choice. This is somebody else's recipe.

And I just go, well, I know for, he might have still been in an apartment in New York. but they would have just done other things different. I mean, I think indie, as I play screenwriter here, but I think it would be more indie's like settled and restless for adventure. And because if you're trying to get to the end point of he wants to live in the past, like it more lines up that he would be like, I want to go back to the days when I was an adventure or not. You know what I mean?

It should have started with like a fake. I should have started with a fake adventure where he's in the basement trying to find the fuse. You don't know that's what he's doing, but it looks like he's shooting up, but I don't know how he's dealing with grief and loss. He's lost his wife and his son. And we've lost the character. And he's lost a reason for living. And this movie is about him getting that reason for living back so much so that he wants to stay in the past. And Helena is like, no, you can't do that. A, for one thing, you'll fuck up the space time continuum. but also at this point, she's learned enough where she goes, no, I've got to get you home.

You're my godfather. I'm your goddaughter. You, I think she already knows she wants to repair his relation with Marion. She's kind of the person that can do it. And they're a family at that point. I like that. And I also like that they're playing against the current trope of either leaving someone behind or dying, Logan, Bond, Tony Stark.

Oh, yeah. I thought that was cool that it did seem to be responding to whatever. They kept kind of faking it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that it, it, whatever the response it is to, hey, heroes don't always have to die and they can make the choice to live on. And kind of even pushing it back this like, fuck it, man, I'm dying and not getting treatment. Whatever that like, I may be spectering this. We may find in a few months that I'll be that right there with you.

I am known for this. So you guys may be 100% in the majority. I'm just trusting my instinct, my gut, where I'm just like, oh, I didn't get tickled. much. Yeah. But the Indiana Jones thing, the Lucas Spielberg thing, I just like, I get how that story plays out, how she changes and he changes and stuff. It's just like I don't, I don't care for it.

I don't like it. I'm so tired of this trope now of these characters that we've come to love being in shitty spots when we meet them. In the same way that with Bond you guys like, oh, I wish a prolog could be a separate mission. Yeah. And then the mission following could just be not, it wouldn't have to be part of a universe. It could just be a fun mission.

I feel like I wish this, maybe could have just been the choice of it. It's an adventure that Indy had and he had a great time. I know. I guess I'm just really holding it up against Crystal Skull. And to me, the relationships, the chemistry, the dialogue was so much better. It was snappier. It was lively. It was fun.

I laughed out loud, I think, three times on you shouldn't have gone to Poland. Here, hold my horse. and you're German, you shouldn't try to be funny. Those lines really... I laughed out loud a lot of stuff at dialogue. I laughed out loud at a... Physic stuff of action. I laughed a lot when they...

Oh, yeah. Well, you know what the fuck... What? What? I laughed a lot when they didn't want the laughter to happen. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. When they took... It was something I love. Yeah. That, okay, too many chases, too many chases.

There just wasn't a variety. The undersea thing was so exciting because I was like, God, thank God, it's not a fucking pursuit chase thing. not all the other indie movies are that they maybe have like one or one and a half too you know but the

my mind was like pretty blown in the chase that it became I don't know if I've ever seen this in an indie movie where it became a pursuit they're pursuing something and then somebody's after them you know like Tarantino talks about how like, oh, you like French connection as a chase the most because Popeye's trying to get his man.

He's chasing after him. It's not most car chases are. I'm trying to evade the person after me. And it's just a different experience. So death proof does both. They get chased by and then they pursue. Yeah. But this one, I never seen a chase before where they were pursuing.

And then they started getting chased. I was like, oh, they're in the middle. Kind of like the Indiana Jones spinning a bunch of plates action wise thing. Yeah, that was nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was the thing you laughed at that you thought should be laughed at? I wouldn't be any of the specifics of it. Like, I think there were a few moments where I just like laughed because I was, I just was, it was so absurd.

Oh, I know a bad line I like that. Archimedes was fascinated by water displacement. Yes, we did laugh at that. We did laugh at that. Okay. Let's go tit for tat. Here's a little detail that I just loved when in the beginning when Indy shows up and he's got obviously a borrowed Nazi uniform on with a bullet hole and he turns around and you see the other bullet hole and the soldiers recognize like what the hell? And they don't make a meal out of it.

It's just he killed someone put on their uniform and they have to question like, is this guy real? What's going on? But when he was wearing that uniform, he looked like. And that's eventually where he gets shot later in the movie. I know. He looked like pre-regenerated Captain America. You know, Captain America was skinny little guy? Big head on a skinny body.

Yeah. I was speaking, do you think they didn't have him fill out that suit because they sort of just don't really care to make Indiana Jones look? The joke kind of being like he took somebody's suit who was slightly bigger, or am I giving too much credit to? I think multiple reasons. He's done it before and it was too small. So they're playing the opposite.

Also, if it's baggy, you can't tell it's old Harrison Ford. You know, and also they want you to think clearly this is a stolen suit. I think it had multiple reasons. Yeah. Yeah. For me, it was like they wanted to make it clear that it was a chosen stolen suit, but it did seem, it enhanced the uncanny valley things because it just, they did look like Harrison.

It was a little Irishman of like, you know, when you see Robert Deere like kicking a guy. Oh, I know. There are a couple of those moments. There are a couple of those, yeah. And like the Antonio Banderas character, I was like, I was on board. I was like, oh, this is the kind of guy indie would know. and then they kill him in front of Indiana Jones. That was surprising.

To what end? To make us dislike them more, they're fucking Nazis. We don't need it. Literal expendable character. Did you like Crystal Skull better than this movie? It did. And did you as well? Yeah.

Really? Just if only because of the Spielberg. Like when we go to Morocco. I'm glad I didn't go with you guys last. What? I'm just kidding. I'm not, I'm not, I never said I didn't like this. I never said it was bad.

When James Mangold. is directing. It's interesting because when they show Morocco, with Spielberg, we'd get this beautiful, giant, big shot of Morocco. Yeah. But with this, we get, here's some tourist pan over. Like, that was it, and that's supposed to tell us we're Morocco. Yeah, and then Michael Khan.

He had no, like, he had no geographical. Yeah. And Michael Khan wasn't the editor who usually has edited, you know, Spielberg. They had a couple editors. Three editors. And I'm like, George Lucas, our man who understands editing, that's his thing man him and marsha lucas got behind that uh yeah you know they fucking brought movies to another level so this editing was just so fucking turt like yeah the genuine moments of

like the worst thing you can be during indiana jones maybe which was like bored there were sometimes around i'm kind of getting restless well i had i had i had to go i had to yeah i really had to go i held it i was like maybe this is going to get better i have to stay uh that's great that you were the one who saw all 100% of it. Maybe when I went P for like 90 seconds it was the worst moment of the movie that would have shifted it over. I don't even want to say that it's like the worst movie.

It just made so many confounding choices to me that I just was like, why? Oh, it's better. I'd say than most standard Hollywood action movie stuff. Like the time travel I didn't have a problem with, aliens I don't have a problem with. Fucking God burning, melting faces I don't have a problem with.

What I do have a problem with is remembering your childhood and then seeing your young self in a reflection and then panning over. That is the tropeous, shittiest, directing. And Indiana Jones is like, they happen to be both thinking about the same moment when they're looking up the window.

That just never would, you're right? I'm like, I'm expecting to see a fucking wing. That's shangled territory. That ain't Spielberg territory. I mean, I guess I just knew I was going into this with a free,

unpromised Indiana Jones movie. And I was just like, Matt, I came in with that point of you too, of like I want Indiana Jones just give me more of it but it is the Spielberg-Lucus problem it is like I

it that asterisk or whatever that filter is I can't get pure and it's different with bond because that's always been yeah the village comes in and we all make a Bond movie and maybe it's the broccoli

have always made it and they've always been there so they're assuring whatever that vibe is I just I wanted to love it I wanted to have Indiana Jones moments

but the fact that they weren't clear and didn't have this kind of like verb that I can only chalk up to like editing and cinematography, whatever, camera placement stuff. Yeah. Okay. The thing we haven't talked about that I really liked. The villain, I thought he was pretty cool. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I wish he had a better death and I wanted his main henchman Boyd Holbrook to get a separate death as well. Same with the big guy. That was what always was so fun about the original movies. as all the henchmen get their own private death. And I didn't just them side by side in a plane felt like, how are we in a hurry?

Like that kind of Southern Cracker guy. He's like, it agrees with the cause and stuff. I know, but they don't spell that out. And it took me a while to go like, wait a minute, why is he with,

oh, he's just like a Southern clans with a Nazi? Oh my God. But like the idea of him like, scandalous. You're signing up because you believe this physicist has unlocked the, the time travel. Great.

So you're signed up for this. You get on board. You put your Nazi uniform back on. You're just like, okay, 1939, here we come. When you realize that you're in 2000 BC or whatever the hell year it was supposed to be, the fact that he was like maniacally trying to shoot Roman centurians with the,

like, and they kept cutting to it. I just like, what is. Yeah, that was kind of, what a weird thing I'm seeing? especially since, you know, Italians were essentially fascists in World War.

Oh, they were. They were part of the axis. Like, you're shooting, maybe he was shooting the Syracusians, the Greeks. It's unknown. My biggest bizarre moment. It was as long as we're talking about, like, what am I looking at? What is this sort of moment? Yeah.

When he came back at the end to 1969 and he's in the bed or, and she comes in and talks to him, and you don't see their lips move with voice coming out? while they're talking, it's all like ADR. She's just like, why did you come back? Because I had to. I'm like, what? Then they go into different roofs. She sits down.

And the true like, what the fuck am I watching here? Was when Sala came through the door. I was just like, what? This is really, like, it was the Archimedes, like, the moment you're talking about where I'm just like, I didn't need this. I didn't want this. I wasn't expecting necessarily this,

but I'm getting it. It was just, what am I watching is what I felt in the last two minutes? It was kind of like, and Marion, that picture, oh my God, they made the mistake of like,

in the beginning, his dad is just like he is in the Last Crusade. It's an onset publicity photo. The picture on the fridge is her in her, Marian wear, the marketplace from Raiders, who took that picture. How did he get it and put it?

Like, like that man now i'm complaining like a fan i'm glad the fan service moments were very lightly chosen and i never had a moment where i was like p you they're trying to just do something too clever here the fan things that i got i guess upset about was like yeah where does it hurt like that i was just i just knew something like that was just for the audience the other atrocious a d rma was when they were climbing up the rocks and he was had his whole mouth covered he was like,

when I drank the blood of voodoo and then she covers her mouth and she's like, what was that? Like that's when I felt scenes. I didn't even notice that.

I'd be curious what the, because that was like the only reference to explicit reference to Temple of Doom. Yeah. In the movie.

But it was, I was telling you are. Mad and Jspon podcast. I thought that they would would be revealed that the body was Mads-Micklesson

body in that tomb. Not Archimedes. Yeah, because he had the watch on. Oh. That would have been a cool. And I was like, oh, that's a fun time traveling thing to do. But instead, they literally do nothing with the time travel. He's my second favorite villain.

Oh, he's great. Really? Yeah, yeah. Below Belloc. I would say, um, he was pretty understated. There wasn't like a lot going on. Yeah. The death, you're right, was like totally lacking.

I did like that sort of like, oh, what would a Nazi be in 1969? Yeah. He would be hired by. he would be working for the American government. His introduction next to the dialogue about their backstory, how he lost mutt and then Marion, which was really great. What did you think about the exchange with the hotel porter?

That's what I'm saying. I was going to say that was the other electric dialogue moment that I felt during the movie. They're only going to scratch the surface. They're not going to actually kind of get into what this is all about. I was, that's when I was like elevated by the movie dialogue-wise. I was like, oh, this is fucking cool. They're making,

They're putting America on the spot a little bit, you know? And they're not making it easy. The thing when it was revealed when he was like, I'm going back to kill Hitler because I saw all the mistakes he made I want to write. I was like, holy shit, that's a fucking awesome motive for whatever you would call it for a bad guy. And then favorite, like... Sounds like you love this movie. Hey, Matt.

Look, I can less like Crystal School more and still have moments. I love... Yeah, same. The moment that I thought was pretty right on was just in terms of, but it's because there was a drought of like good ideas for like a half hour. When he was on the plane, he's like, you idiot, continental drift is happening. You're not going back to 1939. I was like, fuck, yeah, movies.

You know what I mean? That was like a cool, like. It's the best line from Indiana Jones movie. So all the villain stuff of like what he was after, who he was, their history, what happened to him. how it came to be, hey, A all the way from me, buddy. There's also like no, there's no moment where Indiana Jones deals with the fact that he fucking lied to his friend and he didn't destroy the, he just remembers it.

And then Seth looks at his reflection in a mirror in a, in a plane window so that she can look at her young self in a plane window. But like, there's no moment of like, like, destroy it. like they they should just we should have seen this get destroyed this fucking time machine yeah it's just also too crowded now with his like academic contemporaries who go on adventures it's like six of a movie is telling me that at any given time there are multiple fissures in the time continued that was open across the globe confusing that this thing doesn't control time it just predicts fishers and i was coming out of they're going well how is it just coincidence that there's

one in the time and the place after they find it? No. That was, Basil had already figured that out. That's why he had that date on the paper. So that's why there was a ticking clock as to when they had to find this thing. They had to get to get to that because that was the one that was going to take him back to 39. That's cool. And I like the two pieces of it having to find the second piece to get to the first piece. And there was full on Fireball Island, the game board set. Oh yeah. Yeah. Ansadadad that I Love like them going down and or just Pulp Novel cover shit that looks so cool. Like when they went underwater and I was just so relieved it was real underwater at points. I was like I'm finally seeing something totally essentially real.

Right. But I was like that looks like a fucking pulp cover thing that I've never seen. Action Adventure thing. I've never seen a Raiders movie. And then when they had to go across that little rickety bridge between the two stones where the water was coming through, I was like Fireball Island by Milton Bradley right on this is the best. Did you guys know that Anticathira is a real thing?

Really? And they found it in the same way it was on a Roman boat that was like crashed under right near the island of Antiquethea or whatever and they think that Archimedes made it because of the time and the place but there's no proof that he made it

and it was some kind of analog computer for predicting the sun and the moon phases and stuff. like that. Well, what do you guys think, like, in a 2003, zeitgeisty way, the fact that there was this big emphasis on it's not, the first, one of the first lines

the villain says is, it's not supernatural, it's mathematics. I did think, like, if somebody was writing a book about how religion is handled in the Indiana Jones movie, this was like a full-on, hey, 50% of the population now doesn't believe in God. And like, this is a pursuit

not worth following anymore. And Indy kind of came on the matter of fact of like he was it was just like it's not what you believe it's how hard he seemed to sort of now come to peace whatever yeah spiritual questions he has because historically anything religious has more and more explained by mathematics not everything if you believe in certain religion aspects and things in the bible obviously that's a different story but certain things people used to take as religion and god is now easily explained by mathematics and this is like a good kind of history meets future.

I mean, you know, interdimensional beings, you know, obviously it was in Crystal Skull. Yeah. Yeah. And we go back and we, you know, voodoo and getting possessed. And then obviously the cup that saved his father's life and made that old 700-year-old night immortal forever. And this guy's still not buying it. I love it.

He's like, he's saying kind of that he is. He's like, look, I've seen a lot of weird. weird shit, and I can't explain it. The reason the whole Roman battle thing didn't really work for me is that in the beginning in Raiders, you get ethereal, vaporish acts of God. It's still mystical enough that you can't explain it. And it's got that fucking 1981 ending, which is like it's two minutes and you're out. And then in Temple of Doom, you get a heart being taken out.

It's still like you don't know how this is happening. It's mystical. then you get to a man, an old man in a cave who's been alive for many years. And that's the first time where I start to go, because it's getting too graphic, too personified. Then you get to... And too elongated.

And too elongated. And then by the time of this one, you've get a full action... Yeah, their skulls are really elongated. That it was just... Too fucking long. I just wish she could have gone back in time or that could have been illustrated in a way.

All of it, to me, always benefits being from more ethereal than real, like literal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you could do a graph of just like why action movies started fucking sucking mid-90s to late, not to be an old grouch, but just like, if you, uh, CG, but I was going to say charting, that's interesting, but like, because I was going to say charting the end third act. If you just timed the minutes that happened from when they start trying to do the mission to the very end or when they accomplish mission to the very, very end,

those if you looked at him just like as a chart they get like longer and longer and it's fucking star wars new hope man who ever complains about that ending who's that guy who wrote a toy story dracist uh oh no um aren't uh he wrote little miss sunshine and stuff too yeah he talked about new hope once where he was like all three stories come to conclusion within like 25 seconds Hans Solo comes and say the Death Star Darth Vader's blown

and having just like the orgasm of like three conclusions with this it was that's what the Archimedes shooting outside his window thing is so fucking bizarre because you're just like what you're wasting your time on what do you mean shooting outside

oh when he was talking about like when you're seeing the battle that's going on in the last act but it has nothing to do with Idiot Jones watching a run around. Oh, yeah.

Boy, I didn't have to see some character I never met in Raiders. He reminds me of in Hudson Hawk when you get to spend some time with Leonardo da Vinci in the early days, remember? Yeah. Oh, well, talk about rips from early 90s movies. I'm going to say it. I think James Cameron has a lawsuit on his hands with the stealing the police horse running through a cityscape and like managing, in true lies, managing the like, oh, well, the iconography

of it's not the Old West, it's in the city. And then the humor of trying to manage what infrastructure is now. There were some trope ripoffs, not tropes, but action piece ripoffs. There's that from True Lies. There's pushing someone against the top of a tunnel, skyfall. There's the rope falling with something attached to it, diehard. Oh, yeah, die hard. Right, right, right.

I did like the, I had a moment where I asked when he was trying to get away from the when he had to do the switch on the horse over and then discovered the train was now behind another train was behind him. That got me. Yeah. And I like the tuck tuck jump from one to the other as they got slammed. I loved the crashing of the motorcycle sidecar, even though like you're saying,

Spielberg would have shot it better, but it still was a good moment. And we saw that already in Last Crusade. But not the splitting of us. Yeah, but not like this where he deliberately ran him into a pole to rid himself of the And this is an argument you could make, like what you were saying about the CGI, like, people have been grassing this since whatever in 1997. But like, I get it. Like, CGI is good when you want spectacle that the world, that you couldn't achieve and you're somebody's imagine. Tom Cruise.

Somebody's a magic. Well, this is it. Mission, exactly. Mission Impossible is proof people in action movies want to see the actual stunt. Agreed. I was curious that that wasn't ever even seemingly aimed. for because the coolest fucking thing in this movie would have been they figure out practical effects to show the reality of Harrison Ford who's still a fit enough dude to pull off some

stuff. You want to see an old man doing this. Yeah. In a practical moving like here's the bummer. Car thing. And if it has to be a little limited, it can't be a Marvel movie. That's okay. It doesn't have to have that.

They kind of did do a lot of that. like Crystal Skull, they just mapped everything with color timing and CG and blurs. Why can't fucking movies look real? I know. Why can't fucking movie there's one shot in this movie? I think he's in the classroom and the light is coming through it. It looked like actual celluloid on his face.

And I was like, never again, was there ever a moment where it's not this fucking pissy color timing? What the fuck is this, guys? I know. And I think like, I think a, I think a little bit. A lot of that train stuff was even real, but they're putting in... That's why we got to go see the hop and timer. They're putting in the sky.

The storm is all digital as far as I could tell. And it would start looking weird if you start not doing all of it, right? It's kind of like when you're a kid and you put... How do you hide CGI? Dark. How else do you hide CGI? Rain. How else do you hide CGI?

Don't do it. Yeah, it just, I think, you know, they say the audience. It doesn't seem to be flipping out of it. It's not like, you know, when we sat down to that theater, I was like, God, this is in Temple of Doom Friday afternoon at a 3.30. Yeah, it came out, I'm sure. This place would have been insane. So I was just like a little depressed about the movie going experience in 2020. At this time.

But I think audiences would have been super jazz, not to bite from, yeah, Tom Cruise, a mission possible. If they had just been like, yeah, practical stunts in this. People I think I would have flipped out. I think I got my theater going a little bit because when they ripped the back off Indie's head, I went, Woo, indie! And then people started to applaud. Right on, man. I was manifesting a good time at the theater.

We didn't happen. We didn't happen. We needed you. If you loved Jason's scream real loud. Or when, oh, I saw a tag of the clothes. And Yoda started fighting everybody cheered. I was like, okay, I guess we're all on board for this shit. And then so like, got it.

Okay, this is the crowd I'm with. And then two minutes later, R2D2 needs to get across a little gap. And he uses his little like blasters, Lendlidl, jump propulsion to get over, and I go, woo! No one. I'm like, what are you not like the other

I gotta go. I gotta go see Dial of Destiny where Paul stands up and goes, if you want Yergen Voller to win, scream real loud. We'll do it. We'll do it.

Before at least theaters. I think it, do you think, here's what I, I'm wondering if mangled deliberately did the end of the movie the way he did so that there's enough

reasonable doubt in the audience to go, oh, he passed out when he got shot. He imagined Archimedes. Because the way he wakes up, the way he wakes up, it's like... That Nidney helps me actually

if I think about it as AI, like the end of AI, artificial intelligence, where it's like, Indy gets peace in reality is always flimsy. If this is the reality he's living in right now, that's fine. No, because Helen is there.

It's just not, he knows. Yeah, no, but I think Helena was with him, right, up through the Nazi shooting him. Oh, the shooting part. Yeah, I think once such a shine to me that he likes Helena. Yeah. And wants her around in this kind of like, interesting.

Like, I don't, yeah, I'm not a big guy on the theory. Like, it's all I'm imagine. I'm just saying it's a nice. No, what I'm saying is like the, when he wakes up at the end, that's, we're back in reality. I think he, here's, like, I think he gets shot in the arm, passes out, and then imagines the whole other thing. Oh, I would tell.

We don't know, we don't know, we don't know how Helena got him and saved him, but she did and brought him back. And he's saying, why did you bring me back? Teddy murdered the mall and he did it. Sure, I'm sure he tied, he handcuffed each one of them and they all drowned. I got confused. I did, I thought they were going to go for, do you really remember me being there when you were a kid? But they didn't.

That it was going to be some time wrinkle thing, right? that like a looper thing that was going to pay off of like you're we found a way to get back because there was sort of references to memory gaps and losses but it seems to me that they steered clear of that kind of thing deliberately

just to leave this reasonable doubt. They did a pretty good job of like time logic in this movie with because I thought they were going to be like oh man how are you going to say this happened and it didn't happen that way the first time but then they kind of went back and fixed everything it was pretty simple and clear

except for the setup for how the thing works. If right. If you look at it, like, the second Indy got shot, when he says, why'd you bring me back, you know, he could just be referring to this shitty apartment in New York. Why didn't you leave me to die in Athens or wherever the hell we were? Yeah.

And that's what she thinks he's saying. Yeah. He's like, I had to bring you back. This is where you belong. That's good. And like that all, then you can like take that whole time travely thing and just, It's like when mom and dad got your mom or dad got surgery

and they were kind of a little hazy there They came back in it You were like dad He was like yeah we went to Greece Okay Boy We went to ancient Greeks The yeah

The Yeah Oh oh with that ending though The you know I didn't love the little Iris hat grab thing Like I thought it was like a fun Grabbed it

I think it was really nice To have it Hung up to dry Why grab it He did that A in the last movie. B, he's about to get down. And he, you know, he doesn't go down. He doesn't get down his ladies unless he's got the hat. He's the opposite of the bandit. He's like, the opposite of smoking the band. Exactly. What if Harrison Ford, sorry, Indiana Jones is kind of bashful when he has to go

down on any. So he needs the hat. So like, he does that point where he has to look up. When you sleep, you tip the brim down. Yeah. Exactly. That's why he's doing. And then he starts catching eggs. but that ending whatever that was now this might be a crazy notion to throw out here I'd be done for a sixth the Indiana Jones movie truly like when that ended

I was kind of like I guess they could do another I can fix this I can fix this franchise and because he's still got something Harrison Ford still cares his voice is always the same

a little bit It always just everything And I don't I don't quite buy his like When he does flutters of not understanding Something or kind of They're harder for me to buy But I love the character so much

And when he fucking showed up in a hat And I did get like That looks so good Of course That looks so great And you know I wouldn't have wanted Instead of him

starting with like magical mystery tour it could have been like the barcaze that like do you know that little soul finger oh yeah okay in the same vein that I wish it would have started with like something funky lively

not the the 60s are quite here why did they do Rolling Stones in the trailer and then Beatles in the movie Yeah and I love to be a call I guarantee you it would have cost them more to have Beatles in the trailer as well. I get it. I also thought this was total Disney Plus.

I was like, how the fuck did they pay for that? I also thought it was just the tentacles of Disney. Beatles are now Disney? They release the document. Are Beatles Disney? Oh, they are, huh? Yeah, with the publishing rights. Yeah, obviously.

They're separate. I'm just saying like the kind of like the way they said it off the edges of the Beatles. It would have been different if they would have been on Apple TV or HBO. The documentary win or then is Disney. Anyway, what I was just going to say. The cut scene in the apartment where they're talking. You think we'll ever find out what happened when they recorded Let It Be? Oh, just that if they did another Indiana Jones movie, whatever I was talking about, like, the music cues and stuff.

Like the idea of seeing indie his response to music and culture as it changes, that actually really works for me. And so just like imagining him with different music cues as cool. Oh, and when he woke up and he had the shirt with the print, it had a silk screen or whatever, whatever time happened from Crystal Skull to now, people now have t-shirts that you can print stupid shit on it. And he woke up and the shirt he put on to go down to talk to the hippies had like this little and just seeing Indiana Jones in whatever that contemporary clothes would be of the era. the rules. If you guys want a sixth movie? Oh, sure. I'd take one.

Yeah. I mean, I honestly take a movie when he, the character is 90 and he just has to do intellectual puzzles and.

Yeah. I would take any Indiana Jones with Harrison Ford. I can get till the day he dies. Like a Batman Beyond. Sadly,

after this one, I think they're clear that they're probably just waiting for him to die and then they're going to do a bunch of CG Indiana Jones. He seems to be okay with it. I wonder if he'll sell his rights.

rights. It'll be like Batman Beyond. Or Callista will. Not to be whatever, but just like that. She kept the same dress from 1999 that she wore to the premiere of this movie. She's definitely going to sell his rights. This is the dividing line between like a true actor or not. The people who sign off on it are not true because it's about vanity.

I'll live on forever. And you know what? They'll make me look pretty fucking in my prime forever. Love that. Yeah. Versus the actor who's in it not for. vanity but for self-expression because if you went, oh, I'm not, I have no part of that. That's not my soul or mind that's being expressed through my voice and body.

Like any actor who like, I'm just like, oh, you got in for it for the movie star. That's fine. Yeah. I applaud you. That's a great choice to make. But I also think there's a lot of actors, actors who would go like, I don't give a shit what what happens after I'm dead. Might as well pay my family.

Sure. Sure. Yeah. That's a valid thing. Shaquille O'Neal, I think he's already sold his rights. Shack's the best thing. To the general? That's the best way to get your car in.

The general's going to make an army of Shacks. I don't know if you saw bad news, Brian and the general. The general, uh, CGI character in those commercials was better than what Indy was, I know, that fucking motorcycle with the indie march popped in. We haven't talked about something. Oh, yeah, John Williams. I thought this score was way better than Crystal Skull. There was a new little piano tinkle thing that was really atmospheric.

That was kind of spooky. I love that. I turned to Paul and said, it's supposed to be scary. Here's something we haven't talked about. We talked about a lot leading up to this. The Lucasfilm logo. So you see Paramount and then you think you're going to get it.

Then it's taken away from you. And then the Lucas filmed into a lock. I was really disappointed by that. But I understand it because Paramount, I think, is just domestic distribution. So they can't internationally won't have a Paramount logo. so they had to do Lucasfilm. But I still think they should have done the silhouette of the train

rather than a lock. That was like, oh, this is a tough one out of the gate for me. But then once I saw India, yeah, the lock thing also is just, yeah. It's so, well, it's so petty because you get mountain, you get gong, you get mountain, then you're going to fucking go for a hole. And then you get a lock.

So these last two logo transitions, have been brutal. Just in a, what's a Jungian theory way? Like, mountain, mountain, mountain, open skies. Lock. I know. And it's like Lucas film lock. I can even forgive.

His archives. This is the lock we're cracking open to fucking pull out Willow TV series. And no longer available. Just the big scoop. It's like when you open a pumpkin. They're pulling. And you just get like grooves. In the pumpkin when you're still trying to scoop out the guts.

That, like, is what the lock was to use. I can even forgive the gopher one because I think that one is taking the piss out of the others. I like the gopher one for one. Yeah, this one, you're right, though. It is like, we're going to take an old rusty lock. Something you thought, will, you'd never open again. And here we go again. We got Al Capone's vault.

It's, it's, it's like, yeah. I did turn to, uh, my favorite thing I said to Paul. Yeah, you missed was I turn. to him and I said, it's Chekhov's dynamite. Yeah, that was pretty good. The second she opened the drawer. Chekho's Dynamite got me good. I was like, this is the most ham-fisted filmmaking

I've seen in a while, okay. And the kid, I liked her relationship with, you know, I thought the kid was great. I thought the acting was all pretty good. Yes, I agree. 100%. Yeah. And yeah, none of that

standing outside and being like, can you believe this fucking thing? is happening. Like none of that. Like all the jokes were, I know that this was in the commercial. You know, I didn't see any of this.

So this, I was getting like a full bath. Oh, because you didn't watch the trailer. I didn't see any trailers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had only seen the part where he whipped the table across with all those guys. And then this moment, but it still worked for me when I saw the movie was when, what are you doing here? He's like, I'm trying to rescue you.

Like, I was like, that's funny. It's not any like. It's a little bit from Superman. who's you've got me who's got you oh that's good yeah yeah yeah uh she um i think margot kidder has signed off her likeness rights but i would love that for amityville for sister's sequel oh man well uh any underwater scene you guys didn't really i talked about the underwater scene i'm i'm this is like technically the james bonding podcast everyone here knows my feelings on underwater slope scenes.

I was thinking to you with Thunderball. Real snoozycle, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I thought of you. Because the eels didn't feel 100% gross out to me like the other things had, which is interesting that they then put insects in later, which I actually found really effective even though it's been used before. I guess that was CG, but that looked good to me. When they dropped on them and they were like, even Harrison Ford.

I like the eel thing too. It's just like it was when they initially made it sharks, I was kind of like, oh, they're going to do this cool Spielberg. Jaws meets Indiana Jones. I'm down for that. When the eels came out, me and Byron, we laughed. I mean, it was just like, it was eels. But I did love the snakes of the sea. Don't call them that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was good. That was good. Harrison Ford was on his game. Yeah, he 100% wanted to be there. That's the, if you don't have that, you have nothing. And I think Crystal Skull, most of the time, you didn't have that. So even though, yeah, this movie has flaws, the fact that Harrison Ford showed up to play. That's why I think I really liked.

it in the 25 minutes. The first 25 minutes. That's why I missed the eyes because later you see he has a twinkle. You're right. And it did feel like cut scenes from a call of duty Indiana Jones game or something. Yeah. Yeah. I would just like to dedicate this podcast to the secretary and the dean of the archaeology department.

I like that secretary. She was doing really great work because at first she just looks like a background actor. But you can see the way she's responding to Indy's retirement. she has affection for him and she's always recognizing like not everybody recognizes who this man is. Yeah. I had a hit of like, this is pretty cool where when he was teaching and they weren't interested in him thinking, it's a really cool idea that these students don't know. Like his heart was almost ripped out by a guy, but he reversed the spell to do it on his chest to make him fall from him.

bridge and get eaten by alligators. He was drunk from the Holy Grail. He's found the arc. He's seen interdimensional beings from the space between spaces. Yeah, it's true, right. The antica there is just, just petty bullshit compared to this.

And he finally got the girl he loves. Yes. Until we decided that he didn't in this one. But then he got her back. Helena got her back. Yeah, I love Indy and I just want him to be happy. So I wish he hadn't been robbed. of mutt. I'd take a whole movie of him at that bar before any of this happens where he just sits

at the bar, has a drink, and talks to the bartender. Well, having a drink thing makes me think the most effective, most I get affected by sad indie. Yeah. If you're going to do it, when he goes and has a drink and Raiders after he thinks Berian said he's there with the monkey and he's just getting like drunk and angry before Belloc shows up, that's like a real like, oh, Indy's, He's got a heart, but it's just a moment in the movie. Yeah. And the fact that Mutt, I'm presuming, died in the Korean. Nom, I think, probably.

That's an early, yeah, I guess it's. But he would have been pretty old. No, it wasn't the movie in 55? 57. So Crystal Scull was in 57. How old is he in that? Isn't he like 20? 20.

Yeah. So he would have been like 33, I guess. Yeah, he would have been an officer by that. I did think of the geopolitical realm of the world. You know, I wish there. had been more looks. That's why I like the underwater. I wish they're just along with less chases,

more geography, changeups and stuff. But like, it is funny that like they're going to different parts of the world. It is like, oh, yeah, Vietnam. The Vietnam War is happening on the other part of the country right now. They have protesters, but they don't mention it. And also, just a little clarity about history. I wasn't live alive in 1969.

But hippies weren't celebrating. the man on the moon. The whole thing was like, why in the fuck are we wasting our time? Colonizing different things and putting all this money and science into this sort of frivolous thing. And we're not thinking about what's going on here

on planet Earth. We're destroying planet Earth. It's just a year before Earth, you know, Earth Day starts. So ecology is forming. The idea that their peers are being sent off to Vietnam to die. It was just so, Indy being like, who cares about the man on the moon. It's like, he's with the kids on that one. It's the squares who would be like,

yeah. So when he came out and then it was, hell no, we won't go. I was like, well, what's this protest, parade? That was a Vietnam protest back there. I think it was. And was it also happening during the tail end of the moon parade. Okay. So it was like, using the parade to protest. And maybe it's what I was talking about then. They're having a parade and the hippies are protesting saying, I think about the war. The hippies that lived in the apartment building. But I think, Even those guys were like, yeah, they might have protested the idea of the resources going to that. But I think everybody was gathered around the TV when a man set foot on the movie. Propaganda.

That's what they told us. Why make it the day after? Like, it's so weird. That's not the day after. Or the thing it's about to have. They had 30 days of quarantine once they got back. Because they wanted to do this big parade scene. Yeah.

They stayed in an airstream trailer, the three of them. Wow. They waited to figure out if they brought back any moon diseases. well should we should we rate this maybe anything else you want to I would have been the little spoils part in 1969 who would have been like

Man on the Moon who gives a shit I'm sorry what do you mean? No I feel bad I'm like thinking like I would have been the Reddit contrarian asshole who when in 1969 the man went on the moon I'm reflected because you were like I think everybody was happy and I'm like fuck me I would have been there and been like

Who gives a shit? There's people in Vietnam. I'm dying. As I walk into my college lecture hall. I love. Putting booze in your coffee. I can't go them in college.

Exactly. Look, I love the Apollo space program. Well known. Big fan. Me too. I love Indiana Jones. You think the two of them in the same movie I'd be one.

This is the best. Nazis are back. They could have been related. That's when the interdimensional beings could have happened. Launching Apollo 11 rips open a tongue fisher. And then Indiana Jones gets sucked into it like Howard the duck. If they had to get to the Saturn 5 rocket launch

because that cracks open a fissure in time. Like that would have been fun. Yeah, the Archimedes thing did seem like it must have been, I have to imagine. They have a dozen choices of where they can go in history and the choice to not go anywhere that would be

and this isn't a how could they miss this but just like that it's not emotionally or biographically attached to the characters it's sort of about history history yeah um I couldn't help it was like

oh because back to the future part two you just you don't want to go into another indie movie you don't want to like but when you're showing digital characters be D-age and stuff, your gut or your mind's eye kind of thinks it's maybe, or an extended sequence that starts in, for 25 minutes in the, during World War II, your mind's eye is kind of thinking this, the time travel thing is going to pay off that way. Like, yeah, the idea of we spent

so much time deaging him in this sequence, that's going to, you know, it's kind of old. I see what you say. You kind of expect 1930, like them to end up in 1939. and it's indie who helps indie out. You know what I mean? Yeah, kind of a thing. Oh, that would have been two Bill and Ted's for me.

Sure. In the Jones and the excellent adventure. It did, whatever, yeah, my brain, whatever was putting together, it just felt like...

More interesting than the movie you were watching. I mean, I was probably the one who was most jazzed about when that war was, when they went back in time and that fight was going on and they thought they were dragons.

I love it. I was on board and I was having a fun run. I was out of book. You know what I did like about then thinking it was dragons was, and this is the, the like, I don't like that much dead. That makes me really sad. Me too. So the peaceful notion that I can grab, that I, the takeaway from this,

it's a wonderful life sort of way, the idea that no matter what, history knows good, History knows bad. And if Nazis came back in time in their airplanes, people would be like, those are dragons of bad people. You got to like that history somehow will always try to. Because they never try to shoot at the little dragon. Indiana Jones movies are kind of about this like bouncing back and forth between the Nazi what could have happened in history and how indie threads through it.

So I don't know. just the the idea that whatever indie's doing is kind of always lining up with what goodness is. That's a comforting notion. Yeah, I like that. And so what he grabs the hat at the end,

it's like, goodness continues. Well, I just love that he's, so like a moral misanthrop. He's a moral curmudgeon is what it is. He has all the right ethics for the most part. Well, I mean, not all the right ethics.

No, then that's what was cool. I liked about. By large. I should have destroyed that art. He promised his friend. I know Matt didn't, Myra didn't feel like, didn't feel the execution was,

was right, but the idea that she was in, Helena was like an early rogue version of Indy, and that's the way, that's the way Indy started, remember how he was to, yeah, that's what I appreciate about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Say that again. How indie started. Indy started was he was a bit more of a rogue and a scoundrel, and he was, you know, he was, He left Marion. Trying to get the stolen cross of Coronado

and put it in a museum. He wasn't trying to sell it. He was trying to stop the literal origin story is antithetical to everything Phoebe Roller and his character is doing. Not the like... Not the indie that leaves Marion and the indie that does, you know,

sometimes want fortune and glory. Well, you know, it's got me thinking, you know, Hans Solo and... He always wants intellectual glory, though. He doesn't want actual fortune. We see this by his modest apartment He goes back and forth The rogue qualities

Obviously being like also Han Solo Just widening out You know how Indiana Harrison Ford doesn't necessarily Want to get back to playing Han Solo One on Han Solo dead But loves Indiana Jones

Would happy to go back each time Like I don't know if we talked about this in the Indiana Jones scene but it's a question. Why do you think that is? That's a good question. He doesn't like space but he likes adventure. Hey, doesn't like space opera sort of stuff likes action adventure.

I think he also saw the way the Star Wars story ended up going by the time I got to Return of the Jedi and I think he thought this is, it turned into more of a kid's story, I think, where Indiana Jones was just like a fun rollicking adventure about him. It's, yeah, I think. Yeah, I don't, because I wouldn't say it's like, oh, because he gets to be the star.

He doesn't have to share. No, I think Han Solo got neutered or anything. I don't think it's that. Hans Solar got neutered a little bit by the time the Return of the Jedi ended. You know, he just became kind of. Yeah, he peaks with, I know, I love you, I know. It's really, he doesn't ever become more interesting after that. So if you're an actor just looking to do interesting stuff, I can see that be.

see him again, you know, in Force Awakens, he's exactly the same. What if when he came out of the thing in Return of the Jedi, the was melted out, it was like, regarding Henry. Like,

that's what he wanted to play. It was like the guy who has to learn how to, like, love again and make cakes with his daughter. I've been so curious to revisit that movie. Regarding Henry?

Yeah. Henry Jones Jr.? Whoa. Whoa. No, he's like, Jones the fifth or sixth? Yeah, Manhattan, 1991.

I guess he'd be like Henry Jones the third, probably. He's mutt. Yeah, yeah. RIP. Four months. Boy, Henry Jones, the third doesn't make it in any timeline. Well, should we rate this baby?

Yeah. All right, I'm thinking, I think I gave, we all gave Raiders seven. Pretty sure I gave Temple of Doom a six, last crusade of six. I think I gave I think I gave Crystal Skull a five or four.

Yeah, for me, I think I gave it a four and a half because I know. And I think the way I ended it saying, I was like, I know there's no way that I'd like it more than the first three, but I hope I like it more than Crystal Skull. There was stuff in it in this movie in Dial of Destiny that I liked more than moments at Crystal Skull. but yeah I do think I leave

if I had to choose I do this is my least favorite but that's not so what's your number I'll put it as equal to ranking as Crystal Skull so four to half

you don't have to no it doesn't seem like it deserves lower than Crystal Skull even though I like less than crystals yeah it's a two for me the second they

kill those people in the college I was like, this is not a rollicking fun time anymore. This is... Welcome to the 70s, man. This is the fucking 1969. Oh, shit. Welcome to bullet. It just, it didn't, it felt,

it didn't even feel like a pale imitation of Indiana Jones. It just felt like the heart was gone. It felt like all the heart was missing. Yeah, but I felt like that in the direction of the action sequences, and it felt like that in the direction of the characters. It just felt like the heart was missing. And I feel like that's part of Indiana Jones franchise that I didn't really, realized I responded to so much.

These movies inherently have a lot of heart in them. But this one weirdly felt heartless. I thought, Harrison Ford had more heart than I'd seen in a long time of any movie. Yeah, but they- And that, for me, makes it a- It's a harsh- Five out of seven.

Hey, all right. It's a harsh word, but like when I did come out, the word that kept ringing in my mind was, like, charmless. Like, I wanted more charm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's for sure flawed. And again, like, I think it's probably closer to Crystal Skull to me than it is to Temple of Doom in that top three.

Yeah. For sure. Yeah. There's a bigger gap there. These reminded me of the late stage Marx Brothers movies. There's all the... Night of Casablanca. Yeah.

But Night of Casablanca is pretty good. Big store? Those are horrible. Big stores, horrible at the circus. I love you boys are Barz Brothers. I've always seen a cruise. But you guys are dropping titles. All the later ones

that they did to get Chico out of debt. Yeah. They did solely for that. Night at Casablanca is like the most reminiscent of the early paramount. Because it's of the a day at the one. And the night at though. Yeah. And I would say this is night at Casablanca for me,

where it's still got a lot of stuff to love, but it doesn't feel like the original. That's Crystal's an ultimate. Big store. This is big store all over again. Oh, really? No. The thing, yeah,

rewatching all of these is just it's reaffirmed that it's, sort of like, oh, Raiders the Lost Dark is just like in a category of like 10 movies ever that is just like masterpiece that goes beyond what movies are. I know. And so in a way, I don't know, the sequels are kind of like, you do as good as you can, but for me, there's no way that it could ever surpass. I know if you really think about it, there's Raiders, huge gap. The other two, huge gap.

Whoa. Yeah, that's how I feel. Last Crusade, guys. I know you like Last Crusade. That's when it starts bringing into the, how is, how does Indiana feel here and here? I mean, look at this moment and by the end that I'm just like, oh, man, I don't care what James Bond fucking feels most of the time. I just want to see that dude go out on admission and kicks him ass. Very true.

Yeah. Very true. But like the end of, I mean, to me, the end of the Indiana Jones franchise is the end of Last Crusade. That's what I will always see. That's why these movies don't. really bother me that they're not great because they just don't change that original trilogy for me. In some ways, it helps that they're so, so distanced in time. Like I said, they're just gravy little dessert movies that you can throw on and you don't have to

scrutinize too heavily. Although it did make that opening really in your heart. It was like a fucking 1994 or 96. An actual World War II. Yeah. Because they thought they were over. But if they had known they were going to make these kind of two lousy ones later, then you just should have gone for it and done a cool, like, he like kicks Hitler in the face.

Just do it. Right before Hitler did it like commit suicide. He went in and you find out it's Indy that shot him. But it's because Hitler pulled out a giant Cairo sword and did a big flourish and Indy had dysentery and went, eh. Was Hitler trying to kill his god? daughter. Yes. Averbrod.

Well, the goddaughter. Oh, don't even mention, I bet so many listeners right now are just thinking like, if anybody laid a finger on the hair of my goddaughter! I haven't seen that she was 12. Come on. When short round was introduced, you're like, all bets are off for sidekicks and... I like it kind of the Pult novel, Hardy Boys. There's like 20 Indiana Jones movies.

I'm like, oh, this is the one with this spunky goddaughter. That's awesome. I liked when it was like when the, their teddy was like pretend flying the plane outside the auction. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I was like, oh, that's cute. Yeah. I just have to look at it differently.

From different angles, it looks good. But it's like this feels like the kind of movie where I just, I don't know that I'll see it again for a long, one, long time. Really? I'm going to see it soon. I really, the thing that I think would more, most bring me back is the. villain stuff. All of his scenes really, those would be, I think,

really fun to... I also like the villain in the 1944, the Thomas Kretschman role, that guy was pretty cool. The guy that should have been Jason Isaacs. Oh. Also, I thought in like, yeah,

post whatever Christoph Walt's Nazi portrayal world, I was like, this is, I'm feeling this is a fresh character. He was menacing.

The, like, what is that? V? from the time I spent like whatever the whatever those cookey dudes were who came over

and built missiles for it like that's Operation Paperclip yeah yeah yeah that's like such juicy villain territory

yeah when he pulls his luger off of him I was like he had a gun and he just decided to come up there

with a counterfeit sword that's what he was coming at Indy with and he had a fucking gun that's very strange choice Nazi men

oh the behind the things thing that worked for me was Saturday morning cereal. When she goes over and getting things cut behind her hands while she's naming the nine uses, that was really funny. Yeah, I like that.

I'm realizing, though, you know, as the third born child in a family who got into entertainment, just to make all the people happy. I've really taken both sides of this issue. I want Matt Gorely to like you. I want Matt Myra to like me. I feel the same way.

And I absolutely understand your opinions completely. But also like I'm part. I'm part, part full, like, it's part willful ignorance on my part. And I knew that going in. And that's James Bond, Indian Jones, Star Wars are movies that I just want to do that way. And I just want to stress everybody. They're not, these aren't nitpicks of mine. These aren't like the, he had a gun.

Why he did not use the, that was a nitpick. Yeah. No, I feel you, Matt. You're everything else I'm saying. I'm trying to, I'm trying to say this in the broadest. stroke possible. Like, I think that everybody involved was very talented. I think all the actors were on their A game.

I just think there were some issues in scripting and directing and editing. Yeah. Agreed. Variety and a variety of action sequences. I wanted to be everywhere, doing different things, trying to get different stuff. You know, I don't know. Civilian death and child murderers. Let's do our final ranking then, just so it's clear.

Mine would be Raiders, Last Crusoe. Temple of Doom, Dial of Destiny, Crystal Skull. Hey, guys, I feel like this is going to be all different. That's why friends are special. We all get to have different feelings. Mine would be Raiders, Doom, Last Crusade, Crystal Skull, Dial of Destiny. I could almost switch Doom and Last Crusade.

If I were purely going on quality, Raiders is by far the best. quality movie. But if I'm going by my favorite, yeah, let's do favorite. I love it. The Last Crusade, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Temple of Doom, Crystal Skull, Dial of Destiny.

That's where the favorite aspect is where it wins out with a temple of doom over Last Crusade for me, because I know Last Crusade is like a better movie and it's a more fulfilling, like, uh, experience. But truly, you know, just like the,

when they're going on those line cards. It's so fucking. Breakneck. I love it. Yeah. Did you, you know. Look, I like, I like the second half of the movies, Helen Ashah. That character I like. And I would have liked the first part of the movies Helen Ashah if she stayed that. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, that's where it felt a little mac-ish. I was like, wait a second. It felt like a Mac attack. Well, we'll be back next week when we start our new franchise. Everybody. Fasting. It is.

It's grimace's birthday. Did you hear that? Did you get a grimmis shake pan? You got to go to McDonald's. It's grimace's birthday? Yeah. What are we doing here? Let's go.

Thank you for listening to Indiana Jonesing, everybody. Thank you. Yeah, guys. Hey, thanks for. And Paul, thanks for doing this with us. Thank you for, and this isn't Indiana Jonesing, guys. Come on, let's be real.

This was James Bonding presents Indiana Jones. And you guys with big hearts invited me along for the adventure. So thank you so much. You're in now. All I can say is we haven't gone through every James Bond movie with Paul. I was just saying we're going to do Fast and the Furious next, where we fast. We do not eat until we've watched all 10 Fast and the Furious movies. I thought we would fast long enough to be very angry, then record something.

Maybe that's right. Fast to Lumpfewis. We're not really doing that. But maybe one day Ethan Hunting, you know. It all depends on the Jaron Pund. is if there's any other Jaron puns that. Yeah, if you guys, Jack Ryan, feel free to send in your puns and let us know.

If there's a good enough one, we'll do it. Thanks, guys. Bye. Bye.