James Bonding - Never Say Never Again with Ben Blacker

Episode Date: May 8, 2024

Writer extraordinaire Ben Blacker joins us to deconstruct Connery's unofficial return as Bond in the infamous Thunderball remake! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey listeners, if you're listening, like it says so in your name, you probably want to know that James Bonding is coming to the London podcast festival. Oh, Matt, people have been asking for decades for us to head over across the old pond, as they say, not realizing that we also have to cross a dry continent before we can cross that pond. And an Atlantic Ocean. But then we're doing it. We're going to be in London on September 16th as part of the London Podcast Festival. there's going to be just an exciting time to finally have a British off in front of British people. That's right. Maybe they can judge our British off. We're finally coming home to London.

Now, if you go to kingsplace.com.uk, you'll find the link for the London Podcast Festival, and you can buy tickets now. Oh, I'm so excited about this, Matt, that I'm losing money because I'm flying out just to do this podcast, and quite frankly, I couldn't be more delighted. God blesses you for it. You can also get tickets for Super Ego Spontania Nation, Complete Woman, and I was there too, which we'll see, no promises, but I'm working on a bond guest for that. Oh, and triple up no promises.

I'll be around all Saturday if you want to hang out. That's a great promise. Are you looking for a new podcast that combines your passion of comedy and music? Then you should listen to The Supergroup. On each episode of The Supergroup, hosts Tani Newsom and Alex Kleiner, invite a comedian and musician to write and record an original song with them over the course of a week. You'll hear every step of the process and you'll hear songs created with some earwool favorites. I love these people. I love this idea. I'm jealous I didn't think about it. I can't wait to hear it.

Go to stitcher premium.com slash supergroup and use promo code Bond for a free month of Stitcher Premium. Matt and Matt and, Matt, Matt, James Bonding podcast. Hi, I'm Matt. My name is Matt as well, and this is James Bonding. We're not going to hear any of that first part. No, we're not. He's going to cut it off. Rest assured that I did you the favor of cutting out a bunch of baseball talk. We are joined by Ben.

Ben, I just wanted to say... Blacker. I know, but I just wanted to say it's been a long time. I haven't seen you since Matt's wedding. It's been a minute. Where Matt got to wear an amazing tuxedo that I was not allowed to wear at my own wedding. And I just want to say, How has that affected you this year?

First, a question. Do you two share a lot of clothes? We share a desire to look like maybe we're Indiana Jones at Club Obi-Wan or James Bond. But Ben, I can't believe you came in right at the end here, right under the wire of this round of James Bond. What was your previous movie? Was it Die Another Day? Is that, which of the terrible? Pierce Brosman ones is that? Is that the ice one?

Yeah. Yep. We'd like to apologize. Is that the ice one? An apology is long overdue. Acker and my writing partner, Ben Acker and I still talk about that. Like, what happened that day? Wait, in the movie or in your lives?

In our lives. To bring us to that. But we enjoyed talking with you guys about it. But it's a good thing for a couple of writers to understand what not to do. Yeah, that's true. That's true. That's true. Occasionally, you really.

got to go to the other side to be able to come back. You learn a lot more from failures than from successes. I think you're right. Yeah. Every time I put on Never Say Never Again, I forget it's Irvin's movie. Never, never, never. Never say never again. You've got to have drama.

And now I watched the behind the scenes thing. So I was, I recalled how much Kim Basinger had problems on the set and her hair person would nod to her after every take. Was that a good take or a bad take? And I had to have him removed, and she didn't like me for that. But Barbara Carrera, now there was a star. I improvised with her a lot of her walking scenes up and downstairs. Now, this is straight from the documentary.

I'm not making this up. We just said, we've got the staircase already lit. Bring Barbara. Let's get her to walk. Let me film it. Let's shoot it. And we did. She was great.

She's never before has anyone utilized her talents to such a great extent as I. Irvin Kirshner, director of the Empire Strikes Back, Never Say Never Again, and Gone with the Win. Robocop 2. Robocop 2. Is that right? Yes. That's right. Yes. What a career you had, sir.

Thank you. I'm dead now, so what's the point? I have an Irvin Kirsner question for you, because when I, I saw his name come up in the credits of... For Irvin. No, it's for Matt and Matt as... I've got to go anyway. I do with the farmer's market.

I'm selling some... I have flavored yogurts that I sell. Do you... Are they themed after Yoda? Yes. Green Goblin Pistaggio, yogurt. And I've got Doth Mall Raspberry. Well, why not use a little bit of your Hoth connection

to make an ice cream line? That's a great I do. I'm doing hoathe frozen yogurts and taunton chip and wampa. What would a tantan chip be? Is it like a brittle? Yes. You dig into the middle and there's a surprise. The brittle.

That's true. I thought this yogurt smelled bad on the outside. Well, I mean, that's great. It's a fun callback to your film, but why would you want your yogurt to smell bad? Well, just yogurt does. It's fermented, you see. It's kind of that bad good like cheese, you know, or an open wound. Yeah.

It smells bad and good. Are you okay with lactose? Oh, sure. Sometimes I just eat the pure extracted lactose enzyme. Yeah. Just to see if I can process it. It's probably what helped your ghost come back today. I've got to run.

Okay. Thank you so much. I'm doing a farmer's market. I'm selling yogurt. Okay. Establish that. Thank you, Mr. Kirshner. You're welcome.

Have a great day. Bye now. he'll be back. He just, he can't stay away. Who could? Whenever there's three white guys talking about him in a podcast room, Irving appears. Anyway, I'm back. Does anybody have any questions about Irvin Kirchner? I do. As you are both fans of this James Bond franchise,

I'm led to understand. Yes. And of the Star Wars franchise. So you've seen, you know, basically two-thirds of the movies Irvin Kers directed. I'm a big fan of the Robocop franchise. I've seen three-thirds. Sure. Yeah, I have two.

Could you reduce that? No, I think three-thirds. No, no. Okay, but it's also four-fourths. It's equal to. A bunch of other things that are sort of unremarkable. But my question is, is he a good director? I don't think so.

Well, this is, that is a good question. Because what explains Empire Strikes Back? and in this documentary, he goes to great lengths to say that this could have been a much better film, but that they were constantly changing things on him. And because the producer of the film, Schwartzman, Jack Schwartzman, who's Jason Schwartzman's father, Talley Shire's husband, was always back in London fighting the court battle to keep this movie alive because it's a remake of Thunderball. So the line producer had to handle all the main producer responsibilities.

So they were constantly, there were also four scripts cobbled together because they had to then, whenever they'd write something, they had to run it by Sean Connery, the producers, the writers, and the legal team to see that it didn't go out of the lawsuit for the Thunderball thing. So they were fighting a lot of issues, and he seems to understand that this movie is not what he wanted it to be. So that question is still an open question, but let's take a look at some of his other works here.

But then I guess the other side of that is how much oversight was on, Empire, right? Like, how much is that movie actually his voice and how much it was Lucas looking over his shoulder or someone else looking over his shoulder? It's a good question. It's kind of like the Toby Hooper Steven Spielberg thing. But I get the feeling all of, I really do believe all of the heart of Empire is Kirshner. Because I think there's a, I feel like there's a lightning striking thing happening in Star Wars that's not there in Jedi. That seems to be very there in Empire. So he did. an episode of amazing stories called Hell Tupay. Oh my God, that is Ben Acker's favorite episode. Really? We talk about this frequently because the climax of that episode,

it's a courtroom scene, and the climax of the episode is someone on the stand going, there will be hell to pay. What? And then it hits him, Hell Tupé. Oh my God, the Tupé was possessed.

Wow. That's the end of the episode. That's the best spoilt. Like, that is, That is the worst version of Soylent Green is people. Yes. No, it's worse. It's much worse.

That's what I'm saying. It's the worst version of that. Based on a pun. Yeah. We wrote this story. Yeah. Wow. He did the eyes of Laura Mars.

He did an episode of Sequest 2032. Raid and on Tebby, but that's a TV movie. Just back it up a second. A lot of TV. A big fan of Sequest. Okay. But I prefer the DSV version. This was Sequest 2032, so that was post.

Roy Scheider. Oh, okay. You're welcome. I believe you. Thank you. Boy, yeah, he didn't do a ton. You're just discovering this? Well, I guess Eyes of Laura Mars was his big indie film.

And otherwise, he was just Lucas's USC professor up the sandbox with Barbara Streisand. Speaking of Irvin Kershner and Barbara Streisand, I was made aware of something the other day. This is relevant to our interest that I had never seen. seen before. Paul Russ showed this to me. It is a behind the scenes practical joke on Temple of Doom, which involves Kirshner and Barbara Streisand. And it's very poorly shot, but you should Google it. And there's a transcript of what they're saying. So I guess he was probably shooting never say never again when they're shooting Temple of Doom, even though that's a 1984 movie. It probably took longer. And on the scene where Indy's about to be whipped by the thuggy guard,

they don't tell him and Barbara Streisand comes in dressed in dominatrix gear and starts whipping him and then Kirshner comes in to direct it and everybody's laughing but then Streisand uses the F word and I don't mean fuck like the derogatory homophobic term

oh boy yeah and it is just like That's the Barbara I know from Barbara on Broadway That's not my babs guys that's not my babs Who's your babs? Welcome to Who's your baby But it is it is really odd to see those different worlds converging.

That's crazy business. Yes. We're talking about Never Say Never Again. Oh, come on, Blacker. Don't bring it back to the thing we're supposed to be doing. That's not how this movie, this show works. I have a lot of questions for you guys. Well, I can segue us into this on this very topic,

because speaking of Dominatrix, Barbara Streisand, early in Never Say Never Again, when he is bending over to get stabbed by the girl that he's rescuing, You've got to pause it because I have got the gloft of glofts. When he bends over his jacket and shirt go up out of his pants and he is wearing no shit like mesh black net underwear. Like not even like where the like cords of the mesh separate, it's not like there's another fine material in there. There is just nothing. Like it's crazy.

I took a picture of it. Wasn't that like a kind of underwear, like a fashionable kind of? Maybe. If anyone's wearing fashionable underwear in 1982, it's Sean Connery. I took a picture of it. Thank God. I took a picture of it. Thank God.

Oh, my God. He's wearing fishnets. That could be an undershirt. I mean, that's a pure, maybe it's an undershirt. But I feel like that looks like flesh, maybe it is an undershirt. Follow us on Twitter. Either way, he's wearing like, it looks like Bennett from Commando. I was just going to say this.

Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. The reason I was resetting. Please. Because I had a related question also. Yes. So Never Say Never Again came out in 83. Yes.

Yeah. And I do need from you guys some context about this movie. Like you mentioned the Thunderball remake. And I know that this one takes place like it was a rights issue and this is not official bond canon. Correct. But contextually, this comes. in 83, so it's a couple years after Raiders of the Lost Ark. And it feels like the DNA of that movie.

Like, you guys were talking on the Bowie episode a couple months ago about... That's what we call it. How, yeah. I forget what movie you watched because I lost interest in that. For your eyes on, like the Bowie Sode. But you talked about how like this franchise always chases trends. And this movie, even though it's not technically part of the franchise, feels like that so much. Like, there's Indiana Jones shit in there.

No reason. And so does the official launch the same year, which is Octopocy, the Roger Moore film, Chases Indie. Because it's really the first one at Post Raiders of the Lost Ark, so they both do. It's very fascinating. It's so strange. And then the video game stuff also, which, like, this must have been early video games. I really thought that that video game always looked fun. And watching it now for the first time, I was like, it actually doesn't look like it's very possible.

No, it doesn't look fun about it. I just like the idea of like you're just playing each other. Like I thought of it as like a cool battleship. But in reality, I'm like, well, there's no way to really play that game. It's impossible to follow. This is the first time I noticed where I actually did say this game could work. What? Yes.

So what you're seeing on the big screen between them is where they're shooting the missiles hitting. Yeah. But on their own personal screen is their own targeting computer. Yeah. And so that's how they move to where the missile's heading. It actually, technically, as a practical idea, could work. You know, if we were, like, cool programmer-type people, we'd make that game. Yeah, with the electric shocks.

Sure. That'd be fun. Do you know this game, Shottaku? Or Shotaku? Yeah, I think that's what it's called. Shotaku is a game. This was during the thrilling adventure hour years ago. We had a party at Nathan Fillion's house, and he has all these weird games because he loves games.

So this was a Japanese game where, you know, You and your opponent both hold a handle like in this James Bond movie. Oh, I was there. Now I remember. Yeah, you were there, right? That's right. I remember this game. And I can't remember how it's actually played, but basically it's a game of chicken.

Yeah. Right, where one of you is going to get shot. Yeah, that's right. Oh, there's... It's more like Russian roulette. It's not like you're holding it and it's warming shocks up like the shocks are increasing. No, it just don't know when they're going to happen. Yeah, it is who pulls away or something like that.

It's scary. I've played that on, um, there's a very similar shock game that Jensen and Matt would play on get up on this on their podcast. It was like a thing we would play after the podcast. And it was four handles. Yes. You had to let you held on to it. Yeah. Somebody got shocked.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Add a screen to that and you've got your, you've got your global thermonuclear war game that they're playing in this movie. With a sylon voice. And also, by the way, the thing I noticed the first time ever was that the computer thanks them.

Thank you. Yeah, I know. Very polite. Maximilian's like, really, he's programming that in. It's the gentleman's apodulous. And War Games was after this, right? I don't know about it. Maybe a year after that?

Really? Maybe. I feel like it was earlier. If it was, then this movie's just chasing every trend. That's fair. Including the fashion trends. While we're starting to talk about this film. Oh, War Games was 83 also.

I want to talk about the lyrics to this song. Yeah, let's start a thing. top here. Let's start at the top. This song is maybe the worst thing about this movie. Well, here's what I'm saying. I really enjoy the... Never, never, never say, never.

That seems fine to me. But the words, I was listening for the first time and reading, because I always keep captioning on it when I do these movies. You walk in a room, a woman can... This is the lyrics to... It's like they're narrating. These are the lyrics too. These don't even read like lyrics. Ready?

You walk in a room, a woman can feel the heat. one look is a guarantee. Night could be long and sweet. The message is clear like nothing I've ever known, but the more that I hear forgot about long-range plans because this man's got his own. Wait a minute.

So, video game computer theme song written by computer. They fed lyrics on a little paper card. Well, you know, I don't know if you're familiar with the rest of the lyrics here, Matt. I'd love to be. To get mixed up with a man who says never may be big trouble, but then I just could be the... woman to take you and make you say never say never again then we're into the fun chorus that's not bad

you've got all the moves ah but baby i've got them too no matter your attitude or mood i'll come through the touch of your voice the feel of your eyes on me you leave me no choice though i know there's danger there i don't care let it be oh let it be that's a proven lyric i'm having trouble parsing these things oh me too to get it bad with a man who says never may have no future to get it bad with a man who says never this does seem written by english as a second language but then i just could be the woman to reach you and teach you to never say never again way to go gibbs this does i was so who wrote that and who sings that this is i believe the beegeys what that can't be true i feel like we would know that

Hang on. A Gibb wrote this song? Didn't the BGs write this song? I've never heard that. I don't know who wrote it though. Oh my God. There's no way to find out. No.

Listeners, let us know. Yeah, we're recording this on Waxilm. Look, here's what it says at the bottom of this. Songwriters, Maurice Ernest Gibb, Robin, Hugh Gibb, Barry Allen Gibb. Never say never again. Lyrics, Warner Chappell, Music, Universal Music, Publishing, Rites. Wait. They're published.

The studio is published for the lyrics? Like, who's getting credit for the lyrics? Look, nobody wants credit for this lyric. Alan Smithy. They just use a Gibbs cast off as the music bed. And then computers wrote the lyrics. Look, I'm very confused right now. I'm going to dig into this as well.

Thank you for digging into this. Because I know that the... It says it's composed by Michelle LeGrand with lyrics by Alan and Marilyn Bergman. Oh, the Bergman's. I'm very confused. Is I reading the wrong lyrics? You may be looking up that there was an alternate song.

I was going to ask you guys if there was an alternate song. Let me just hear this lyrics. I don't know. God, just that awful jazz. No, I read the right lyrics. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. You know, Matt, you mentioned jazz, but it's actually this awful, like, early 80s

post-disco sound that was prevalent in pop music. I'm insulting jazz. You are. Here's the alternate song, which I think we covered before. Because this was a radio hit. This version? Yeah. It's a better song, I think.

It is a better song. Do you recognize it? A little bit, but not really. Oh. Well, here's the Bee Gees. Never Say Never Again. This is a much bonnier. Off of the album Odessa.

You're ready? This version's a much bondier song. It's what? Much bondier. Yeah. Okay, so here's the Begis. Oh, I love it already. I love the Bejys so much.

Oh, God, wow. Wait a minute. Hold on. This is a different song, but this is their never say never again. I think Google is just confused by lyric credits. Yeah. Yeah. But I think all songs that are called Never Say Never Again should get their moment on this podcast.

So wait, the version that you were playing that, not this garbage. What was that? I think it was a rejected real one because they would often do that commission more than one. That's such a better theme song. I agree. Also, let's just talk about this title of this movie. It came about because Connery's wife suggested it saying like, never say never, again because you never said you do this.

No, domestic abuse victim. Yep, go ahead. I think it's a great title. Like, I love the little wink it gives to the history. It shouldn't just be never say never? That's a more Bondian title. Like, never say never again is not really a phrase. True. And it's not a good twist on like live and let live, live and let die. Did we talk about the ending?

It should be never say ever. Do we talk about the ending for this movie that Connery wanted and Roger Moore wanted? Oh, where they meet? where they pass each other. Oh, that would have been great. I mean, come on. You're already gone so deep in this dumb movie. Well, there are.

So I think Never Say Never Again is a comment on the Never Say Never, right? So he said never again about doing the franchise, but then he's done this movie. So now at the end of this movie, he'll never say never again. How about that? Never Say Never is where he's at currently in this film. At the beginning of it. wait but then he's done it again I mean look what is he done what is he done the song should be called oops I did it yes yes like the song the

the movie should be called why didn't I learn my lesson no I enjoy this movie I shouldn't shit there's it's not great but I enjoy there's a lot to like about it yeah the acting some of the casting oh not the music though no the music is none of the maybe the worst part of it. In fact, even the writers said that apparently one of the script versions that they went in and they had to make more to Sean Conner's liking, which was also to Kirchner's liking and the writers, they all basically kicked Lorenzo Semple off, put these other two uncredited writers who were very much the Purvis and Wade, Matt, of this film.

And they set, they rewrote that cold open, which I like, but they set the whole thing to the sound of a ticking stopwatch. there was no music under it and when they saw it they were all kind of like oh what is this shit even the director I think yeah that music really does ruin it

well it's also I find this movie to be very sparse in the fact that I don't there's a lot that you're like oh there should be music here but there is not music here yeah there is music it's intrusive and it's a bummer not to get to hear the bond theme in a bond movie and they can't do it yeah it was really a bummer

if they wanted to go back, they could do it now. Wait, do they own? They own it. They bought it in $15 million. I didn't realize they bought. They bought the film rights. I know they have the rights to that story now, but they have the rights to the film.

No kidding. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why it's in there now. It's in the James Bond Archives. Everything's owned by one entity now. Yeah. I didn't realize this film was. Wow.

Yeah, which begs the question, what if they did that? What if they were like, okay. Put a Barry score to it? Let's redo this score. A remastered version. Good. I have some notes for the end of every action sequence. In what way?

I thought the action sequences were actually pretty good in this until they had to solve them. Right. Where like it was just, for example, the car chase, I thought was a really good action sequence. And it went on just the right amount of time. And the motorcycle was really fun. And it's stuff. Well, I'll mention that in a sec. but the end of it is he gets locked in this room,

and then she just swings some sort of mast at him. Right. To knock him off of the motorcycle. It's a terrible ending to that. Yeah, the clear sail that has been rolled up and is sitting there. And also, she had a gun. Yes. But I think she really, I do like the angle of her asking him right down

that she was the best lover he ever had. That I love. The best rapture using the term of Rapture, too, is hilarious. But I had a couple of other context questions for you guys. So, how old was Sean Connery when... 52. Is that right? Yes.

Interesting. And Roger Moore would have been 55 at the same year making octopus. So I was thinking of two things. I happened to watch the Hitchcock movie Marnie the day before I watched this. And my wife had never seen it. It's pretty good. It's Shirley Maclean and Connery, right? It's Tippy Heedron.

Tipy Heardin. What am I thinking of? Shirley Maclean. I forget what the Shirley Macleys in one. She's in one of those later ones also. But it's like later Hitchcock, which is iffy. But there's good stuff in it. Is this Hitchcock between takes, he would go shoot a video for the Universal Tram?

Probably. You ever see those videos? No. Of him selling the fucking Universal Studios to people? You're like, Wait, I went there all the time as a kid. I don't know why I don't remember that. Oh, there's plenty of videos of Universal Tram action with Alfred Hitchcock.

What year did he die? Not 2010. Yeah, it was the same year Kershner passed. Okay, sorry, Ben, go ahead. So we're watching that, which must be like late 60s. And my wife had never seen it. And she's like just sitting on the couch next to me doing work. And she hears Sean Connery's voice and goes, is that Sean Connery?

And looks up and goes, oh, hello? Like she got real hearts in her eyes about it And then I put on this movie the next day And she was like How much later was this? It's crazy how much better he looks in the 90s Than in this movie Yeah

Like in Hunt for Red October It was surprising to me too That this was 83 right And then Indiana Jones The Last Crusade was 89 Six years later He looks so much older in that movie Well he goes wig leagli

You know, in... Oh, you're saying he looks older in Never Say Never Again. No, no. Like, he looks like he's 70. It's interesting what the 12 years does to him. It's fascinating because like... And then there's like this Connery, this... Twelve years.

It was six years. I'm talking about between... Oh, between bonds. Between bonds. Between diamonds. Yeah, he's a different guy. Yeah, and then there's like... I think of Connery has having four distinct periods of Connery.

I think you have... early 60s connery, right? Then you have that 70s connery, which is, which includes Diamonds or Forever Connery and Zordaun Connery, whatever. Zardaz Khanar. And then you have this 80s Connery until Last Crusade, which then begins his next phase of Connery. Yeah. Which is like the entrapment, the rock last crusade connery. I think it's untouchables that brought him back. Sure. 87? 87? I'm not sure. Yeah. Around that. So, we Yeah, I'll start that there. And then the last phase of Connery is the you're the man now dog Connery.

Yeah. You mean Dragon Heart? I mean Dragon Heart. I mean, you're the man now dog. Is that the name of that dragon movie? Yes. And I follow that right to Wimbledon Connery. That all encompasses for me.

Fist shaking. He's due, like we haven't seen him in a few years. And he's due... We see him every year at tennis. He's always in the crowd. But he's due to be like a voice in a pixel. movie and that will be his last thing and it'll be great. He did the voice of Bond in the From Russia with Love video game.

2005's PlayStation Classic. But I don't know if he's firing on all cylinders. Last time I think I saw him on a talk show, which was a long time ago, he didn't seem quite fully there. Well, he's the Connery that, like, Saturday Night Live made fun of for the past 15, 20 years. Yeah. He may be, though. I don't know.

The Daryl Hammond of Connery. Well, he's here to talk to us today. Oh. Sean? Oh, he's not talking. He won't. He won't talk. Wimbledon's on, actually.

I get paid to talk. Okay, so watching the opening of this and seeing this Connery. Oh, wait, I had a follow-up question. When I asked how old Connery was, how old was Daniel Craig in his first Bond movie? 38, I think.

Was he really? 38, 39? Because he looks the same age as Connery in this. Like, Daniel Craig has always looked about 45, 50. Maybe, yeah. Yeah. Well, he is now. Yeah, he's 50 now.

Yeah. But I actually think Connery looks better, if not equal to how he looks in diamonds or forever. Diamonds or forever. I want to just, all I really would like to do, if they released a special edition of this movie. When they do. Which we're going to make out. They fix the music. I'd like them to spend some of that money on fixing his hair.

Yeah, it's not the greatest to pay. It's a little agro for me. I don't like the fact that they've decided to do the entire toupee in a dark hair while leaving his sides a wispy gray. There's a little bit of salt in it. Yeah, but not enough. Well, for HD. I wonder how it was on the old TV screen. But if you look at Roger Moore, he didn't let the gray come in at any point.

That's true. And you know, I noticed when they went close up on him, they actually literally did the panty hose nylon over the. the camera, that soft focus thing. And it's not just a filter, it's one of those actual cloth mesh things that I noticed on a couple of his shots. Through his underwear. Yeah, that's why he wears it. That's old Irvin.

He does it the old fashioned way. Here, use mine. Okay, that's all my questions. I taught this to George for the speeders. You just cover up the wheels. We used it on Mon Mothmer. that woman was 98 the hand to God

you know who I just love and he sells a hell of a yogurt and he gives a hell of a tail and I think I praised his what's that phrase praised his praisesness

saying his praises yeah praise us all one of my favorite actors Edward Fox who plays M he's great he's a very good foil for this bond I liked him

he's so Just that deep-throated classic English. Oh, do come a long bond. You know, everything's like swallowed in his throat. He's got that going. And then Rowan... Rowan Atkinson sort of does the same sort of thing. How is Rowan Atkinson in this movie and not playing Q?

Like, how do you cast Rowan-Ackinson? That's his first movie. Is it really? Yes, isn't that crazy? But surely he had been on television. He must have been in comedy. Sure, Black. What year to Black Adder start?

I don't know. That's true. That was 80-something, 80-mid. But I like, what was the, what's the M's name again? Edward Fox. Yeah, he's great, like he has this feel of like these great British Hammer Horror actors, like almost stagey, but not quite. Yeah.

Like he's not giving that bigger performance. Yeah. I really liked him. I've said it before, but Forrest 10 from Navarone, you've got Robert Shaw, Edward Fox, Carl Weathers, and Harrison Ford. Yes. Directed by Guy Hamilton, who's the Goldfinger director, plus you've got Richard Keel and Barbara Bach and Frank O'Neer.

Get on this movie. Oh, this sounds like it might be in the next phase of bonding. I've never seen this. Oh, it's one of my favorite movies and it ain't great, but man, is it fun. We've talked about what the next phase of bonding is. There it is. I'm bringing it up. I'm letting everyone know.

Matt Myra has never seen a Mission Impossible movie, which is my favorite spy franchise. That's interesting. I just bought the series last night because we're going to watch them all leading up to the next one, which is getting out of the park reviews. The last three were unbelievably great. I love the last two especially. I haven't watched three in a while. But this next one, everything I've seen about it is like some people are saying this is the best action picture in the last 10 years.

It feels like it's been building to this since Ghost Prots. Yeah. It's the way to do like Roger Moore Bonds really well. Fun action movies. Absolutely. Here's the thing. So it's not true that I haven't seen all of, but I have not seen anything after that JJ one. Oh, you haven't seen the best one? The last two are the best ones.

How many have they're in? Two. Yeah, Ghost ProCrow and Rogue Nation. Rogue Nation I haven't seen. Yeah, Roch Nish. Those are the best ones. And three was really good. Three was very good.

Philip Seymour Hoffman, who always, I always said should have been a Bond villain at some point. Sort of did turn in there. Hey, maybe he's still well. We started watching Part 1 last night. That is a weird movie. Brian DePalma is a weird director. Mission Impossible. I don't think so either.

And he's like, it's kind of blasphemous to say that. But I don't like Carrie. And it's, I think Carrie succeeds despite itself. Yeah. I think because the performances are really interesting. Bunkers. They're bonkers. Yeah.

But yeah, he, his movies when they're good are good despite his involvement. Untouchables, I feel that way, too, because it's like almost cartoony in a way. And yet it's not. Well, Scarface is unwatchable. Yeah, I agree with that. Scarface is unwatchable. And Mission Impossible has a lot of strange Dutch angles that don't seem of the era. Well, I also never...

But then I like the twists it has that you don't expect it. The story is good. Don't like that. You don't like that. I don't like them making Phelps the bad. Oh, I don't like that. I don't like that. Why not make Tom Cruise Phelps?

Right. Yes. Do it. I liked the, like, Kristen Scott Thomas and Emilio Estavas getting killed up top. You don't expect that. But I'm with you. The Phelps turn feels like... unnecessary.

That said, the first Mission Impossible is fine. It's a good sort of series beginner. The second one is terrible. That's what I'm looking forward to see. The motorcycle fight. By the way, let me just update everyone on that second one. Dougree Scott took that role instead of Wolverine. I know.

Oh, that's right. I remember that. He decided to be the villain in Mission Muslim. Matt, were you reading Wizard magazine at the time? I probably was. Honestly, I probably was. And it just was crazy to me because he had to go back for these reshoes and couldn't do the movie and then Hugh Jackman got cast, but like, he's got to be, has got to be kicking

himself. Yeah. Listen, but what do you do? Like, that seems like a sure thing. Sure. Yeah, totally. In whatever it was. Totally.

That's John Wu, right? Yeah, oh, it sure is. Yeah, I know that. I know that because humans fly off of my motorcycles and hug each other in the air. But in bringing it back to never say never again, I, in watching a lot of the action sequences in this movie, they reminded me, like, they feel like the template for, you sort of action sequences that were done better and just more modern in some of the later Mission Impossible movies.

Yes. And I thought that was real. Like the car chase I was talking about earlier, that scene is in Rogue Nation in a bigger sort of Tom Cruiseer way. But it feels very much the same. And then the underwater stuff also in Rogue Nation. Oh, right. A thrilling scene in Rogue Nation, which I could watch any time.

But it feels like, again, the template was set in this Bond movie. I think the action sequences are great. The best thing about this movie is how little time they spend underwater compared to Thunderball. Is that right? Yes. And that was not an accident in that documentary. They say that because they were watching Thunderball because they had to watch it really closely to make sure like lines and ideas. They could only take from the book.

They could not take from the film. Oh, now it makes some sense. Yeah. So that's part of the reason. And they're just like, this is boring as hell. And so they basically turned it into a gun film. fight. I will say this. That's really interesting. The shark scene in this movie, I think is actually it's a pretty tense shark set. Yeah, it's novel. And it's clear that they abused some sharks making

this film. That was upsetting. Yeah. And I was enjoying the scene. Yeah. I don't care for it. Yeah. I was enjoying the shark scene until I thought about it for one second. And I was like, why is this in this movie? No, I know. This makes no sense. Her ways of killing him are so root-go-burg-y. Will the sharks, like, once they eat the transmitter, will they now stop? No, they'll go after that shark. Yeah, I mean, it's just going to... That same shark will eat its own tail.

The shark, like, population will be wiped out by the device. Oh, they're not thinking ahead. That's the specter's bigger goal. Another example of... Oh, my God, when they call out Spector's, like, fucking... When they call out Spector's acronym to the WN, I'm just like... Great. Yes.

You really, you've had time. You really want to go through with the one of the business of what your acronym means. You had the foresight to not do the underwater scene, but you don't want to rethink the Spectre acronym. And also, for the record, Sector is a word. Don't specter it and make it special executive. Like, it's so silly to me that they pull SP from the first world. Well, but Spector is a better villain organization. Sector sounds very cool to me with an RE.

But no euphony to that. How do you guys feel about- You can curl your lip. me all you want. I still think Sector's a better name. I like Max von Siddow as Blofeld, though. He's pretty cool. I always forget that he's in this thing. Yeah. Yeah. How could you forget? He has a cat? Are there, how many Blofelds have there been now? Well, there's the guy who played him without a face for the first couple movies. Who doesn't really count? No. And then, well, then the first time you see him would be,

you only live twice, Donald Pleasins, but he was first played by another man I forget his name. And Lewis Gilbert said, he looks too much like Father Christmas. So they changed him to Donald Pleasant. Which I think is a good move. Like Donald Pleasins is such a creepy dude. I know. Then you've got Tally Savalas.

Then Charles Gray. Then the guy who plays him for your eyes only. Then you've got Max von Siddow. And you've got Christoph Waltz. So do you, do both of you, each of you, have a favorite Blofeld? Because those are, that's some pretty

great castles. I like a lot of them. Telly Savalas. I like Telly Savalas. I like Donald Pleasance. I even like Charles Gray for what that movie is. I don't remember that one. I think I like his hair. He has like great hair. He's very British. It was just, I didn't why, you know, we

talked about this many times before, but why put him in you only live twice as Bond's ally and then recast him as the main villain of the movie three movies later? They do that so much in this franchise, though. Is that right? This movie alone has a few bond people in it. So the Bahamas girl that picks him up on the boat, fishing picks him up,

she's the hotel receptionist from Spy Who Love Me, remember? Oh, right. And one of the generals is the Texan oil guy from a view to a kill. Well, one of the Italian prime minister in this movie, the Italian minister of defense who's at that meeting, is the voice of, do you know this? No. Largo. Oh, wow. What? He's the voice of Largo and Thunderball. Oh, wow. Because they overdub everyone in those early movies. That's funny.

Yeah. Guys, the internet's full of trivia. I know. I liked that the woman who he meets in the Bahamas two times. I thought that was a nice little bit. Like, it could have been really corny, but somehow it worked. Yeah. I love that he saw that lore up there and had to swim up to it.

That's what he looks at. Yeah, I know. And she just happens to me. Which is what makes me say, is he a good director? I don't know. Yeah, good question. Speaking of just them being able to take things from the book and not the films is why you don't get in Aston Martin, you get a Bentley in this film. He pulls up to the spa in a Bentley.

I wonder why they made such high of it. I heard that they were allowed to use an Aston Martin, but didn't. Really? That's what I heard. Okay. Can we go back to the beginning? I have more questions. That's all we do here.

How long is this? Three, four hours? Our longest so far is three and some change. Do you want to make this a double? two-parter. You know what I don't hate that idea. So the opening with the sort of the head fake of this mission that is actually a training exercise. And then the conversation that Bond has with M, there was so much, it felt so loaded to me with like, one, sort of winking to the audience like, this guy's old.

Remember when he used to be James Bond? And two, it felt like a lot of that conversation. conversation, which I didn't dislike, but about like, uh, free radicals. Yeah, the free radicals and healing bond and like, you can't be who you used to be. Yeah. I thought it was interesting. And I wonder if it's, if that's like the 80s take on bond. Like, what is this? This, the time of this. This was a big, yeah, free radicals was a big thing. And I find it very interesting too that they actually don't need to, but they go out of their way to make his M the next M. And he talks about his illustrious predecessor who was big on the

double O program and he's not, he's more it's almost like what they cover in Skyfall. This is very similar to Skyfall. I was going to ask that. So that stuff, which I think is interesting of like. Excuse me. I think modernizing the Bond persona

in 83, they did better in the Daniel Craig movies where it's sort of a kinder, gentler bond, right? They make him a contemporary person. Whereas here, it's like, this is a man out of time. Yes. And I don't know, do you have a preference?

That's an interesting. I never thought about it that way. They don't change bond. No. They use him to comment on trends. I like that. Yeah. I don't mind it either. I like that. It's interesting. I also, because it was also before the time that they had to adjust any political correctness. So they could still, in a way, they're saying, well, in a way, it's maybe it's beginning. And they're kind of saying like, come on, we all know why we love this movie. We're not going to go down that road, even though we'll comment on it. But yeah.

This reminds me of a Mloft. Yeah. It's a Maira's lookout for this because Gloft is much better sounding, but we're left with this. Knowing that this is a training exercise, watch Sean Connery's performance as he's going through this, because there's a couple of moments that he plays as though he's going through this training exercise, particularly when he's strangling the first guy on the ladder, and he rolls his eyes like, why aren't you going down already? Friend, I think what you're seeing is Sean Connery not caring about doing this movie.

You know what? I think that could be it, but I choose to give him the credit because he's a treasure to this generation of moviegoers and... They do say that in the documentary that he was there to work and super professional. And Kirsner goes off on this long kind of story about how Klaus Muria Brandauer would get really upset and be kind of a diva. and Sean Connery would just sit in his chair and be super quiet, and then it was time to get up and do it, he'd do it.

And that was interesting. You could easily see Klaus Maria Brandauer being his character. Is there a story about, on that behind the scene stuff, about why Connery came back for this? I think, yeah, good question. I'm trying to remember. The producer went to him. I would have to believe that it's because also his career was

in the dumps at this point. He was, he had done Zardaz and he was doing these kind of like, uh, almost like knockoff B movie David Lean epics. Like, yeah. And he just wasn't doing well. The building. Yeah, it would make sense. It was probably a huge payday. Yeah. I'm trying to remember exactly. And then they gave him quite a bit of input on it. Yeah. Too much? Good question. I don't know. It seems like he maybe knew kind of what was best for that film. You know there's like two hours of footage that's not. in this movie. Oh, God.

No. I was going to say you could cut out the first 30 minutes of this movie. They were going to release a laser disc that was going to be rescored in the early 90s of this movie. And it was going to be like the director's cut and it was going to have like the scenes that they wanted to put back in it, put back in it and score the movie and put it out. But it just sort of that sort of just died out there in the 90s. Do you know what was in that? No. But I've heard a couple of quotes too from like there's a quote of Kim Basinger saying like,

after they shot the movie of her saying she's like there's probably at least another movie out there worth of footage. Oh my God. Interesting. So I'm very curious. You know, here's something I think that should be done. We're in a world of geekdom where it's permeated the culture

and it is where it is. I just think there should be much like there is a story group for your Star Wars franchise that people to keep the canon in line, there should be a group of fans of these things. It should be you and I honestly should be able to go into the archives and pull what we need to pull for a re-release special edition of things. How do we make that happen? You know, I think we just say it on the internet like this.

My first stop would be Quantum of Solis. Really? Oh, I know there is a really good movie there. I know it. I don't know that they shot the things that you would need for that to be a really good thing. But I also like... I think even just a re-edit in a way. And I think traditionally I find that Bond movies tend to not really ever release their deleted scenes.

They don't really get them out there. If you do a kill house. And if you see something, it's like one or two, like maybe a minute. And Quantum has that alternate ending where he kills Mr. White that they never released. Well, it's a good thing. I know. From Breaking Bad? Yeah.

Wow. He goes to the desert. And then he kills Mr. White. white from Clue. Uh-huh. And then he kills Willard White from Diamonds or Forever. And then the white shadow.

Do you think this would probably apply to the current series that the action sequences are all like the Marvel does them, like they're all pre-visualized, so they just sort of slot those into whatever script. Like there's no room for moving things around? I think they do

often start with big set pieces, but not Not always. And then even then they, it's usually because now they're bringing on like our tour directors. So they usually have a strong second unit director who handles a lot of those big things. Yeah. But I'm sure I don't know. But I wonder if that's why there's not a lot of extras footage and stuff like that from the Craig series.

It's very interesting. I don't know that I've ever read a James Bond screenplay. I read a little bit of Casino Royale. I really want that script because I know there's more in there. like there's there's different stuff in the Vesper Bond train scene. Have you gone to the WGA library? No. I bet they haven't.

Do you want to take a field trip with me on Tuesday? Maybe we could record an episode. Oh my God. That's a great idea. I'm glad I can be here for it. Now if we say this out loud on mic and we don't do it, it's going to be real disappointing. So we'll have to do it. You can always cut this out.

Yeah. Oh, but that would be an editor. We don't do that. And I'd rather record a full episode than that. We don't do that. You want to pressure yourself into recording an episode? So let's talk about some things that I like This podcast exists because we pressure ourselves into doing it.

I like the fight with Pat Roach in the spa, who of course is the he's the airplane Nazi and Raiders of the Lost Dark. He's also the thuggy guard, the main thuggy guard. No way. Yeah. And he's just real subtle. Even when he punches Connery and everyone at the TV starts cheering and he just kind of looks at them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he like keeps walking like an Irish boxer at that point. Like he just keeps this fist ready to go. But he has a personality for a guy who has no lines. Yeah. In all of those things. And I just realized after watching the credits that he's credited as Lippe, who in Thunderball is just like, who is he? He's like Count Lippe.

He's the guy helping the whole thing happen. Oh, is it the guy, the first guy that's killed by sharks? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think so. I think that's him. And then I like that fight also, but then it ends, as all of these action scenes do, in a disappointing way. That does feel like Kirshner.

By I'm throwing his urine at him. Well, I mean, obviously it's the most poisonous substance known to man because it has so many free radicals in it. That was dumb. Oh, that was dumb. What do you guys think of the... That was Mel Brooks bullshit. Oh, what do you think of the downbeat in Moneypenny's office where he says, I must eliminate all free radicals? I'm sorry.

I do. Maybe it's because I have a memory of my mom laughing out loud when we would watch that. I thought it was cute. I thought it was cute. The Bentley should have been green, though. That's my note to everybody over there. Well, when you put out the new version, you can be colored. We're going to paint it green.

What do you guys think of the special effects? Because I actually think like the model of that jet with the cruise missiles flying through the clouds was pretty good. You know, it wasn't bad for especially that time. And then when the cruise missiles launched, they're a little, you know, composited in. But the footage is all pretty good. The cinematography at times is kind of nice. You know, I just love the, just like that 80s look where it's kind of frosty. You don't see B1 bombers very often.

Is that a B1? Yeah, it's a B1. I like the look of it. It's such a unique sort of, such a unique plane that when you first see it in the movie, you're like, is that a real plane or is that just some sort of make-em-up plane? No, it's a B-1 bomber. And then there's always something I find that when they do these optical mats, it just, it fuzzes too much for me.

It just like it appears too miniature. Maybe that's what I love. It's like true nostalgia for me because that was a style that existed for about 20 years of my formative years of film watching. Yeah. That's very of its time. Yeah. It's like what people must, I know there's that thing where people like music's nons are like,

I got to have that warmth of an analog tape in studio. And I still debate whether you can really truly hear some of that stuff, you know. But if I can see this, maybe there is something to that. There are some interesting comparisons of those kinds of things of like the analog and digital sound that they have on like YouTube. And when I listen to it, I go like, wait a second, I'm listening to this through a crunched streamed video. Why this can't be. this can't remotely tell me exactly if there is a difference. Microphones, wine, special effects.

You can define it to a certain point, but after that it's all bullshit opinion. Hazzah. I agree with that entirely. Now, the scenes at the, what do we call it, a spa, a wellness center, the sanatorium from, A day at the races with the... Oh, I wish. Margaret Dumont popping in.

That would have been great. That's who was sitting in... She was watching the boxing match, right? She was there watching the boxing match. Oh, dear. Dr. Hakenbush strolls by. Mr. Bond. I never.

Was that boss nass? Mr. Bond. Who also sounds like the first... Blofeld, right? Isn't that... $1 million. Yeah, yeah. Here's something I find interesting about Specter.

I always feel like, just weirdly, I feel like they should be paying these people that complete these jobs for them and not killing them. Who are they killing? They killed Jack. Oh. By throwing a non-poisonous... He's not part of Spector.

He's just a heroin at it. By throwing a non-poisonous snake into his car, they kill him. That she has to go blow him up. to go. Well, why didn't she just run him off the road? Or put that fucking C4 that has a remote control on his car. I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. Oh, yes, sir.

Because you've got to have a left turn. Drama exists on the unexpected. Nobody expects drive up next to him, throw a snake in the car, run them off the road, go get the snake. Then you've got a transmitter that you blow it up. I'm anti-cut-out the middleman. I say put a few middlemen in there. One of the middlemen being a snake. One of the middlemen being Joyce Middleman,

who's a great special effects. She's a snake handler. Joyce Middler, Joyce Middler. Shout out, Joyce. The wildlife budget on this movie was through the room. It is a slow day at the farmer's market. That one's biting on his yogurt. Oh, right.

I got to get paid. Shoot, my booth is unaccompanied. I thought you had Joyce fill in. She's coming later, but, you know, she's since lost. ambulatory skills so she I imagine one of the snakes got her

no she's flying in on one of those missile things that Bond and Felix use this double secret which is such a better way to get down to the water than like diving using a parachute no use a tiny personal helicopter

the X7 X1 whatever the hell is that that is a that's a fun bit of farce. I really enjoyed that. Had those been used in canon before? No. All right. I mean, the closest we came was the Thunderball Jetpack, which is why they put that jetpack in there. They were like, oh, we can use a jetpack. It's in the book. Let's talk about Klaus Maria Brandauer. What do you guys think? I remember we had quite a discussion where last time I was like,

he's so brilliant on going right up to the edge of being too much and then he walks it back, right, when you think he's going to go over. But this time I'm like, maybe he did go over the edge a little too much. I don't know. I think he's over the edge nearly each time he's on screen. Nearly. Not every time, but nearly each time he's on screen. I feel like as an actor, he's going, this is how I'm going to deliver it. And at the last second, I'm going to change it. Every word I'm going to change to even what I don't know I'm going to do. So that's why he's pausing between every word and his hands are up. And he's so strange. He's so strange. And it does, in my head, and I don't know the series well enough to know if this is true, but it feels like every villain in a Bond movie

has like a weird Batman villain thing, like some idiosyncrasy or obsession or physical or mental, you know, ailments. And it is, right? And it feels like his is just being super weird. Yeah. But it works. I know. It does work, especially in this movie, like with the,

video game and the way he's dressed. His casino night tuxedo, if you can even call it that, is this big giant shoulder pad white jacket black tuxedo shirt, but then a polka dot black regular tie. Oh my God.

It's amazing. And then I do like some of the costumes in this movie because they are really interesting. Like the Commando casual stuff they all wear at the end and Barbara Carrera's costume. She's got little weapons and daggers on her hat when she goes to Specter.

And the thing she's wearing when she is killed. Oh, yeah. I know. She's like straight up pirate. She's like swashbuckler. Well, I mean, I think that's why the sale is there. Honestly, like, honestly, I feel like they did that because that whole... She's wearing the bottom half of...

That climax happens to... Yes. That's what it is. That climax happens in the second to last scene of Pirates of the Caribbean and Disney. Like, that whole set, like, with the... rock wall and the bars. It's very much there. I expect to see a dog holding a key in its mouth.

It kind of feels like they just reused it from maybe they just shot Pirates of Pen's ants. Also, Felix Leiter, fuck you, dude, for not trying to help Bond earlier, just watching this all go down. Because he says long enough to see how you deal with the lady. Yeah. Like, what, Felix? Was all of his dialogue ADRD?

Everybody's pretty much is. Is that right? I think a fair amount of it. Like, was his ADRDard by. someone else though? No, it seems like it. I know there's a lot in the like video game sequence that's ADR and it's also weird to see Bond tango.

You've never seen him dance before. That's what I was realizing. You've never seen him play a video game before. That's true. Let's talk about Chuck Cunningham in this movie. Who's that? It's a, it's a. Is that the snake?

It's Gavin. Jack, who plays Jack, was Chuck Cunningham. The oldest Cunningham brother on Happy Days, who was in the first 14 episodes of Happy Days. The one that dies in Vietnam? Yes. That's where he's from. That's, oh, what's his name? Like, O'Hulahan or he's...

Gavin O'Hurley-Hugh. Gavin, he's... God, what is his name? Now I have to look it up. I'm sorry, everybody. It's like Gavin... Gavin O'Hurley is absolutely correct. Yeah. But, like, I'm watching this, and I'm like, where is he?

from that isn't this movie? Like, where in my memory banks is this guy from? And I looked it up and what I gather is that I'm remembering him from the first couple of episodes of Happy Days. That's crazy. Isn't that like...

I didn't know that. He does look like Kim Basinger. It's good casting. He is also, he reminds me of like William Atherton. Yeah, like in a weird, like sort of like, it's not just that he's also a redhead.

It's just there's like something in the eyes. Punchable. Punchable. Punchable redhead. I love that he's sneaking cigarettes in the thing. And the reason that he's not allowed to do so is that the smoke could get into the eye. Right. Eye surgery, which makes no sense.

But he, look at him now. Like, this is like a good character actor guy. Oh, my. My God. What is he still around? He's still around-ish. His last movie. I feel like I recognize that.

What is that? Does he play Simon Pegg's dad in a bunch of things? Because he could. He totally could. He's Irish. He was born in Dublin. What is he? He's dressed as like a show.

He's in Superman 3. Yeah. Sure. Current. The most current thing, he's in Willow. That helps in. What is that picture of it? I don't know.

Ah. The last thing he did was he was in the dissent part two. Ooh. And then other prominent things he's done. The descent part one was a good movie. Yeah. He's in two episodes of Twin Peaks, the original. Oh, really?

I bet that's from that. Oh, maybe. Well, no, it's a little older, right? In that, that was in the... Superman 3, he plays Brad. Oh, you guys remember. You know Brad. You know Brad from Superman 3.

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How many people do you think saw this and went, oh, this is a remake of Thunderball? Because I never did. Zero. I mean, it was never, I don't remember it being talked about at the time. And it was almost just like they're kind of like, these Bond movies are so repetitive and derivative anyway. No one's going to really know.

But like the names, Largo's the same. Domino. Some people must have. figured it out, but I do not remember it that way. Where is Thunderball for each of you in your favorites list? Is it low? I don't really remember Thunder. Yeah, it's just kind of slow and boring.

It came up a little for me this past watch, but it has been the one connery of this whole show that we've always kind of like dreaded because it's long and boring. Part of me wants to also drop that into final cut and really just lift a lot. Because that movie could be so great. It's got all of the elements. It's like it's bond firing on all cylinders. slowed down by water. It's a bizarre.

It's a bizarre movie. Like, you have the Aston Martin's there. He's got a jetpack. A lot of gadgets. Q's visiting. It's like everything you want in James Bond. It's Connery. It's, you know, Largo's great.

Yeah, and Fiona Volpe, who's the Fatima blush role, she's so good. Both of them are good. She, uh, bar, I'm sorry. What is her name? Barbara Carrera. Barbara Carrera nominated for Golden Globe for this movie. Really? For best supporting actress.

It was the walking down the stairs. By the way, she does walk in a way where you're like, be careful. You might slip because she has heels and she sort of kicks her legs forward as she's going down the steps. That was a thing. Like she had this walk that Kershner loved and he showcased it. Well, he did a great job of showcasing her walk, apparently. That scene where she comes into the Spectre sequence in the opening, I really like that they put two keys in safe deposit box and the door opens. Yes.

That's pretty cool. I love that door, too. I love the bar door that opens from two sides. Every other side. Yeah, one. I just have to say something. Here's where I think that Ben might be on to something about Kirchner's directing skills. I'm listening.

I've never seen a James Bond casino scene look less like I want to be there. Yeah. It is covered in smoke. It is the palette of the whole thing is just dead. There's no bright green on the table. One room is straight up an arcade room. What's the guest? I wrote this down.

Like, how much, were arcade games at casinos at the time? I don't think they were. But they were such a phenomenon that even adults were like, let's go take the kids and play. My dad was into it. 83 is early too. Yeah. Well, that's classic Billy Mitchell era right there.

Right. King of Kong. He got taken down. He sure did. God, that's my favorite thing of all time. Yeah. I love all of that. But it wasn't even that he got beat, sorry.

It's that his score was an olified, right? It was nullified because he was using an emulator. Oh my God. And there's a whole, listen, I can get into this anytime you want. But right now might not be in time. Not right now. To your point, though. We'll do it on Sox Talk.

Do we have to? That casino scene, and it reminded me of the, I was like, what did I just see a casino scene that was so good? It was Black Panther. It was a great casino scene. And I was comparing those. And this never say, never again scene. looks like it was shot in a school gymnasium where they set up a casino night to raise money for the band.

Ironically, that is sort of the premises here that it is of charity casino night, right? But it just, it feels so bland. And I don't, every extra in there looks like a friend of someone on the production. Yeah. It's just, there's one guy who, when he walks past the arcade game, there's a guy that is just staring down the barrel of that camera. Is that right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, to the left when he just comes up to Kim Basinger, he's just right down the barrel of the camera.

Everyone in there I'm looking for, I'm like, are one of you, Kevin McClory? Because there's just this sort of weird thing of like, we're spending too much time on these extras. It's the, when James Bond walks up those steps in the casino and you see Sean Connery approach in the casino without his invitation, I'm just like, this is awesome. It's Sean Connery in a tuxedo. and then he does the thing where he punches that guy in the gut pulls him in does that hold this it's a gyroscopic bomb i love that bit i love that bit i love that bit i love that bit i had never seen it before right yeah yeah yeah he hits the button yep he leaves that guy's great and i'm expecting now to really just be enthralled by this film and then we enter what i would call a bus station casino this is with a full ballroom oh it's the worst yeah i've and as we all know, it's well established on this podcast and others, I am a little bit of a gambling addict. I love a good wager, wherever I can get one, and I did not want to be here. Well, you got, also, Largo carrying around that sizable checkbook the entire night in his

coat pocket, that thing is enormous. When you throw a do like that, you got to carry it around. Isn't it a, like a giving a checkbook? No, it's in his, he pulls it out of his inside back. Yeah, and puts it back there. Do you think he just, has always been like running around waiting for someone to play that game with him. Like, I'm going to push the check. I can't even do what is his accent. Do his accent. I'm not exactly sure.

I want you to say in his accent because I can't do the accent, I should bring the checkbook just in case someone wants to play. Okay, let's see. I've got my keys. I've got my lucky rabbit's foot. That's everything, I think. Oh, no. My giant checkbook.

Emil, can you help me pick this checkbook up? Well, sir, why would you need this checkbook tonight? Because I'm going to play my big video game. But no one ever wants to play that with you. But I will find someone tonight. Very well, sir. Here's your checkbook. Also, and... Would you like me to widen the pocket inside your front jacket?

No, no, no. It was telemade for such a thing. I like it to tuck up into the sleeve a little bit. I come over later and then I catch your throat It feels like Christoph Waltz's performance Has a little bit of this guy Yeah

Like a little of that weirdness That's also Which I'm learning film to film is just Christoph Waltz That may be He just has a weird I don't know I think I'm more of a Christoph Waltz fan I don't know

Are you saying you like it or don't like it? Oh I'd like Fair enough Yeah Wait which Waltz Yeah Yeah but I like in interviews he's kind of a little bit like Walts is like that.

Could I have a glance of your delicious meal? Like that sort of thing shows up a lot in movies. Can I give him an Oscar? I really, I've yet to see him, honestly, my least favorite thing he's been in his Specter. Like, my least favorite thing I've watched him in his Spectre. Yeah, he's kind of... I even enjoy him more in Big Guys.

Yeah. Big Guys? Big guys? Big guys. Big guys. The movie? With all the big guys. Never seen it.

a lady in the 70s it paints all these huge men. It's called big guys. It doesn't feel like Waltz is having fun, Inspector. I agree with that. And I think that might be why he's not returning.

Yeah, I think so. Do you think that he just got into a fight with Michael G. Wilson that we've never heard about? Oh, that'd be something. A physical fight. A physical. I think you guys.

You two would know. They would have told you. We would somehow find out. Yeah. Can we talk for a moment before we leave the casino about when Bond leaves the casino.

Oh, no. Come on, Ben. You promised. And he goes and reveals to that doorman that this was a ruse. And then the doorman feints. Yeah. With his eyes crossed, right?

Basically. Yeah. Yeah. He does a Bob Hope movie style. Yes, he really does. And it's, again, I don't know if it's Kersner, I don't know if it's just the way this was written,

but like the end of every sequence, the payoff is terrible. Like he doesn't behave like a human one. By the way, you want him to light that cigar. He never does. Does he not? I just, That's the also like this, that's like the unfinished musical phrase where you're like waiting for it to end on that big major key.

And it just doesn't. And you're just, he pops this cigar in his mouth and then just leaves. And I'm like, just show him lighting it. Yeah. That was satisfying enough. Like I understood they had to show people that this was not an actual device. Yes, I know. But light it. Let me get full closure on this. But the guy fainted. I'm going to tell you, if Matt and I find any footage of him lighting that cigar, it's back in. That's right. You could see that easily. Sure.

You could. We just, we put the wrong CG. file in so the flame is just Peter Cushing. We're like, wait, how did this get in here? I was going to say, wait, from Rogue One. Yes. I just imagine we're doing it at Skywalker. We haven't talked about

Kim Bessinger. Good question. Bacinger. I think it's Bassenger. I think it's Bassenger, right? Didn't we land there? I say as Kershner as Basinger because it seems wrong. I have heard Kim Bessinger. She Basinger. I guess this would explain my question about her and her entrance.

Is it in the Thunderball book that she is a dancer? And that's why this elaborate thing of her being a dancer when there's no call for her. I don't remember. I think that's more in 80s like Jane Fonda aerobics thing. But I could be wrong. Also, to that point, one of the funnier things in this movie, one of the unintentional funnier things in the movie, is her dance instructor. Yes. Knowing when to leave.

He just walks out and say a word. I must go. But I like that. Not allowed to have a line. It gives Largo some real, like, it makes you afraid of him that this dancing instructor is very aware that Largo's a possessive, jealous villain, you know. Yeah. That was really funny.

Yeah, I clocked that too. And also, what a line. What a line. I get what we're trying to do here and paint this guy as a crazy person who will do anything, but there are easier ways to get into that line. line of I would slit your throat. What was the line? When she goes, what would you do if I ever left you?

Like, it's like, wait that come from? Yeah. What does that mean? What are you talking about? Wait. He just gave you the most valuable jewel in the world. Yeah, it is. And then you say that sentence to me.

He's not justified in what he's saying, but she should know. It's just also. She must know him well enough not to ask that question. And it's also out of left field. Like, I think there are more organic ways of him to say that. Yeah. Like, uh, the original owner gave it to his wife and she left him. If you ever left me, I would, like, say that.

Don't, like, have her for just for no reason to say. Wait, but is that scene after the... No. Massage slash assault by Bond? No. It's the first time we meet it. It is the first time we meet it. Yeah, so that makes no. It's crazy.

And just to go back to the wellness center, this massage scene... Which one? Are we talking about the... Not the chiropractor lady massaging shotgun? No, no, no. That actually, I liked that. I thought that was fine. No, the, when he sneaks up on Domino and purports to be the masseuse,

first of all, this was made by people who have never had a massage. Yeah. This is not how you give or receive a massage. And second, that's assault. Yeah. Like, it is straight up assault, especially at the end when the real masseuse comes in and was like, oh, that guy does not work here. and she's like, wait a minute, that scamp, he assaulted me. She does sort of, quickly go.

It's like, wow. Yeah. Like, of course, I'm enchanted. But, you know, in full defense of that, his next scene when he meets her at the arcade goes, yeah, I wanted to apologize about her. What does he say? It's something like that. But I was only going to do it if I happened to run into you by chance. Come on.

Naked on a table. By the way, I also like how he teaches her, say, love. V. Yeah. What does he do? He teaches her Say LaVie, such his life. Oh, yeah. And then she goes, such is life.

Ugh. Yeah, I guess it is. Not great that. So, Natalie did he drop his hands on her? He also drops some wisdom. Sure. And then left. So my larger question to this, and I apologize, I'm sure you've been over this.

But how do you two contend with the inherent misogyny of the Bond franchise? Oh, we contend with it all the time. Yeah. It's in most of the movies. And we, you know, We discuss it and we, you know, it's complicated. It's tough. It's something that even when we address it on here in a way that, like, decries it, you know, that that calls it out for what it is, that upsets people.

Sure. Either way, you know, so it's a complicated issue on this podcast and we never quite, we can't satisfy anybody except the only way I look at it is to satisfy myself, which is just to say this is some horrible shit that is outdated and doesn't belong. in bond anymore and it for the most part isn't in bond anymore well that was that was my other question like i'm not i've seen the new series more than anything else but i still can't remember how they deal with that stuff well it is it is a thing too like we as as silly as this podcast is we do sort of we do try to look at everything as of the time absolutely as uh just like we understand it for where it is we know it's insane. And yeah, we address it as though like, that's what they did.

Very crazy. It's also not just of the time. It's so specific to this franchise in a lot of ways. And the books are even worse. Yes, for sure. But we actually, this came up recently because we watched the spy who shagged me last week. And we were talking about how it handles lesbians and little people and fat people. And I, some guy on Twitter was like, from one liberal to another, you don't need to

to call these things out there just of the time. And I was like, well, they accused me of going on a self-righteous rant about it. And I don't remember going on a rant about it. And I don't know what it has got free here. You did for once. But I also don't remember. I don't know what that has to do with me. Like I was just saying that it's worth talking. I would always argue that this stuff not only is worth talking about, but needs to be talking about. And it's not, it's not to like take down the movie. It's to simply acknowledge that we are in a different time and I find it interesting. It's bad misogyny, but I also find it like academically very interesting to talk about how times change and what passes in some movies and some areas that can't today. So for this listener who thinks that that was

a self-righteous rant, I really disagree with that. I really think all of this stuff is free to talk about and it's interesting. I think yes. Yeah, it's troubling and complicated, but I also find it really interesting to talk about and to shy away from it, I think, is a mistake because it is fascinating. Yeah, it's part of digging into these movies, any movies. I'll bring this up, but I won't go into it because I would invite people to go check this out themselves. But two podcasts I really enjoy had similar sort of conversations recently or within the past six months or so. One is our friend Craig Kukowski's podcast, Craigslist, in which he and his wife watch his list of 100 favorite movies. And he has like 11 Woody Allen, and Woodie Allen, and would

Allen movies on there. And so they have to talk about, like, how do you enjoy Woody Allen still? Like, can you do that? And similarly, there's a great podcast called Switchblade Sisters, which is film critic April Wolf talks to female filmmakers, writers, directors, actors, producers, et cetera, about their favorite horror movie. And I can't remember who the guest was, but they talked about Rosemary's Baby, which is one of my favorite horror movies and really one of my favorite movies.

but it's a Polansky movie and that's problematic. Like how do you contend with terrible people making brilliant things? It seems like a related conversation. You know, it's all, it's all, it's all very interesting

of like what do you take away from these kinds of post finding out things about people or, you know, or you find like, oh, that was a terrible person who made that thing I loved. Yeah. Well, Connery himself is probably,

Matt. Oh, a thousand percent, as I said earlier. Yeah. So I don't know. I know there are assault accusations against him. Is that the extent of it? I didn't really know about him. I mean, he said, you know, he admitted as much about slapping a woman. Yeah.

He's admitted as much. The good old age. It's interesting, but that's the thing that confuses me that it's like some people just don't want this stuff talked about. And I, like, that is, that comes part and parcel with this franchise. Yeah. You have to talk. about it and again it's not like it doesn't have to be it can be a good conversation to talk about these things like it's it really shows you the difference in time and I we're actually going through

this now we're bringing superego back a little bit and you know we've always had this running joke in super ego which is about I'm a woman and it comes not out of any joke at gender confusion or anything like that it comes out of one of us thinking we're playing a woman in a scene and you're four men and you're doing a scene but but even though we might affect a woman's voice, it's still a man's physicality bringing it out. And some of the other people in that scene may not know that one of us is doing a woman. So we jokingly say, I'm a woman to make it clear in an exposition way. And then it's become a bit of a catchphrase for the show.

And now when I hear it, I wonder, is that, you know, we'll still do that. But it's like, it's important to me that people know that it's not a joke at gender confusion or anything like that. Context matters. Yeah, context really matters. And so I think in this round, we're making sure that the context puts it in the right place and not. Because even back in the day, even though times have changed, we've been doing Super Ego for 12 years, we never wanted to make fun of anybody. Unless they were fool, unless they were like, you know, like bullies or fools. But that is, it's a really valid conversation.

And that's the other sort of issue, right, is where how much does intent matter? Yeah. Right? Because you can argue it matters completely. But, and I think the super ego thing is a different story than, you know, Barbara Streisand using the F slur against someone, which like, I don't think she meant it. No, and she wouldn't do it today. But she wouldn't do it today. You can guarantee that she knows well enough, probably.

Unless at home with the James Broward one. Did I ever tell you I saw the two of them at a restaurant once? No. I was starstruck. Yeah, I would. Why wouldn't you be? Yeah. She was born a star.

Yeah, it's interesting too. You're running the whole thing of like, well, what do I do with these sort of new thoughts? But I think the fact that we can talk about these things is that I think that culturally, I think the more we're aware of everything. Yeah. And everybody's point of view, the more we can sort of bring that up. And it doesn't diminish your enjoyment of the movie. No, that's the thing that I feel like some people misunderstand. It can.

But to me, that's when I do step out of the movie. I am taken out of the movie at those points and go like, oh, that does not age well. But it also brings me back into the movie in a film critic sense, not that I'm a film critic, but just like, now I want to look at this in the time. And I think we have an interesting issue with this podcast because often when this is addressed, it's addressed on a podcast usually that has something to do with that subject. We have a lot of listeners that are just straight up James Bond fans, obviously. And some of those listeners fall in the old school camp of like, don't, don't do

disparage these films. That's of the time when they were written. So that gets grandfathered in. And I think, how do I say this? Like it's, yes, we can absolutely talk about those things. They need to be talked about. But it doesn't, it doesn't, us talking about it should not take away from your enjoyment. You can choose to watch these films in the same way that I love you to a kill and most people hate it. That's what's great about this series. There's something for everyone. There's something for massage. Well, yeah. No, and it's also like, like we were saying, Last week. Let me just interrupt for a second.

There's something for people who don't want to dig deep in a sort of substantive way. And they don't have to watch it that way. Exactly. I cannot watch it that way. And the same can be said for Star Wars. The same can be said for like any movie, any series, any movie. Like, look, I love the graduate and I love Tutsi, but Dustin Hoffman is problematic. And Tutsi is problematic.

Yeah. But it's still hilarious. So, yes, you can enjoy things on. many levels. Yeah. And like last week we were talking about a day of the races and we're talking about the essential. There's like that scene where the Marx brothers are hiding and they get into blackface and they're singing with all of the people of color in the movie.

And you're like, watching that now, you're just like, well, that's insane. Yeah. That they did that. But it's also like, but I still like this movie and they weren't aware of it being insane. You know, when they did it, not to make an excuse for it. It was just what they did. But, you know, it's just hard. It's hard.

When you get into all of the... The only odds I really take is when someone starts calling us out for calling this stuff out. Yeah. It does, that does bother me because that is like... No, I mean... Can you offer them their money back? Yeah. Yeah, I sure can.

Done. Done. So one last question on that. And you touched on this already, but in the current series, in the Daniel Craig series, yeah. how do they deal with this thing that is, again, sort of inherent to the franchise, you know, how are women involved in that series?

I actually, how are the bond girls, not just bond girls? One thing I really credit the Brosnan era for is, and part of it's, it's like, what, what? I know. Oh, my God. The burden it had to bear was it was more the transitionary era of that sort of thing. So they dealt with that wonderfully in Golden Eye

with Judy Dench basically having a monologue, calling him a sexist massage and his dinosaurs. And by building up the female characters better than they ever have been before, so by the time you get to the Craig era, they don't address it as much because it's just not needed as much. There's some problems and there's some issues

and there is some of it. But yeah, it's more like we've gotten past that era of Bond a little bit. There's still a lot of damsel in distress things sort of thing, but that's Bond. I mean,

that is Bond. He's saving men and women, and I don't know. And I don't know that the character of James Bond will, I don't think that character's ever going to evolve fully, because I don't think that he can,

just as the character has been written over time and has now existed in 25 movies, 26, if you count this pile of garbage. I think you're talking about the original casino right now. Yes, of course. Actually, I think the character of James Bond in that movie is just fine with me.

Like, honestly, the way he's played in the original Casino Royale. What the Niven Bond? Yeah, I love him. Yeah. That opening. Yeah. But I think that that character, I think the character of James Bond inherently will be always be a hard drinking, violent womanizer. What if it is a woman?

Then I don't think it's James Bond anymore. Really? You don't think a woman can be a hard drinking, violent, woman? womanize her? No, I just don't. Well, I think that that woman should have her own character and be able to exist on her own without having to do. I don't know. Here's why. Because, and this is the argument I'll have for anyone that is like, you can't have a black James Bond. He can't have a woman. I think you can. We've had plenty of. All I care is that it's a good James Bond. And if, and if that means that there's a reason to reinvent it, I don't know that you should do it just for the

sake of doing it. I don't know. But I don't see any reason why Bond can't be anything at this point because it has been everything. I know. It's a fungible concept to a point. It's also incumbent, I think, on everyone working right now in media to create characters that are now going to exist on their own, like to be these strong and powerful characters that are whomever they may be, whether it's Atomic Blonde or it's James Bond or it's, you know. Red Sparrow. I didn't see that. I loved it.

Did you? I haven't seen it. I really did. Or if it's that, I think that someone should write the female version of James Bond, but leave James Bond as. It doesn't have the weight of the franchise behind it, which is what people love. I buy it on. Why can't writing the female version of James Bond be James Bond?

I just don't know. In my head, it just doesn't compute. I mean, obviously it would be a different spin on it. It would have to be just for the fact that a woman working in that world is going to give different issues. But that, to me, is interesting to explore. I call them James Bond. That was, did you guys watch Killing Eve? Yes.

Like, the woman working in that world that Sandra O plays is so amazing. It's really good. And it's not James Bond, but like, I love that take of it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I definitely see like that. not a black and white. Like it's, it's a big question to ask. Yeah, I mean, but it's also like, where do we, like, do you, like, when you're like, why not have a female Superman? It's like, well, oh, well, we create supergirl. She'll stand on her own. But do you have the same issue with

Doctor Who? No, because Doctor Who is an alien. And I understand that when you're regenerating, you can be either gender and you have two hearts. Like, honestly, if that was pre-written into the character of James Bond, and I've always said that James Bond might be a time lure, we just don't And if it comes out that he was a time lord, then he can be a woman. Then by all means, he can be a woman. Honestly, it's like, there's like a weird line in my head of like, well, for Doctor Who, of course that makes sense. He's an alien.

I get it. You know, time lords, they probably switch gender here and there whenever they're regenerating. So why not? So that's sort of where my head's at. I don't know. I get it. It's not an easy question. And you're contending with the thing that you have a deep history and a personal history

with. I mean, as I did with Dr. Who and as I have with Dr. Who. It's just like, but I I'm into that. Like, I get it because canonically it makes sense to me. Like, of like, you know, and it was also like, well, we've never seen a female captain

on Star Trek and then Janeway comes along and I'm like, she might be the best all around captain that we've had in the franchise. Like, but it's also like you don't have to rewrite Captain Kirk as a woman to give Captain Janeway to, for Captain Janeway to be possible. But until the

JJ movies, there wasn't that continuity. Like, that had continuity of the same actor playing the same character. To a point, yes, yeah, yeah. But, like, also... Whereas Bond is ever-changing. Right, I guess what I'm saying is the... I mean, for fuck's sake, if an Australian can play,

but the woman can play... The iconic... The iconic characters that are not aliens. I'm all on board. So a female elf? A thousand percent on it. Well, I don't know what...

What happens on Melmac? Sheet. Chee T. Well, there were female ETs. If you remember on the ride. I've got to remember. Oh, that's right. And I also remember the treatment for the sequel.

Really? E.T.2 nocturnal dreams. No joke. Evil E.T.'s come back. Oh, well, I don't want to be around that. Well, wasn't the E&E for evil? Yeah, evil terrestrial. I'm sorry to take us so far off.

No, it's an interesting discussion. And I always feel like, you know. It is an interesting discussion. I just don't know. how my brain works and why that is so odd. No one knows. I don't think the world is, sadly, ready for a female bond.

I think there are still too many people that would fight that. I'll say this, though, Matt. I wouldn't fight it. Never. Say never, say never again. Again. Okay. Never.

Never say never. I don't know. It is a really, it's something that I wish I could articulate better. because I'm really surprised when people have an issue with us talking about the problematic elements of this series. That really surprises me. I understand they may not like it, but it surprises me that they kind of say stop. And that feels really weird to me to be told to stop talking about those kind of things.

It feels like that that's the whole point of why this discussion exists because there are people out there that have to face people telling them to stop doing things. solely on their gender and stuff like that. And I am not saying, poor me at all. I'm just saying, like, that only points out the irony of all this. Like, that only makes the point, you know? Absolutely. Well, one of my favorite movie characters of all time is Doddy Henson from a league of their own.

And, like, in my head, I'm like, well, Doddy Hansen. You can't write Doddy Henson as a guy. It just changes all of the things of the character I love too much. There's a difference, though. Yeah. I get what you're saying, but it's like, Dottie exists. And Dottie is Dottie in my head. But that's a movie about women playing baseball.

True. But is your argument? Specifically women. I see the gray area. This, the James Bond franchise is about a broken. It's a broken man who's like a killing machine. Yeah. But then that doesn't exist.

It's not gender specific. But I think there's room for broken women who are killing machines. And I welcome them all into my life. Was there, I remember there was talk about spinning off. one of the... Jinks. You got said it at the same time. Oh, jinks.

Oh my God. Wait. What happens now? You owe me a Coke? I think you both owe me a Coke. The word has ever been said at the same time? Oh my God. Oh, geez, the sky just turned blood red.

Oh, when they went to the character, that's how it came up is. What should we name her? Jinks. What? They were originally just going to call her, oh, yeah, Coke. So there was talk of spinning her off. They were going to do that. That's interesting.

Have there been any bond spinoff? There haven't, right? No. They've not done it yet. That seems crazy. It seems like it may... I worry that it'll happen. Why do you worry?

It'll dilute the brand. Yeah, I agree. Honestly. Wouldn't you like a Bond movie every year? Well, we all thought we wanted a Star Wars movie every year. We do. Okay. It used to be every year.

Bond movies were every year when they started. Then they went to like two and then they went to a legal problem. And then they... And then they quantum of solace. Yeah. And that was the break point. Because it was going to be every two years here on out. And then quantum solas happened.

I think it broke everything. So wouldn't it be nice to get like the Moneypenny movie in the interim? I would love that. That I'd be into you. Yeah, sure. That would be cool. Or like here's a team of, uh, of, you know, double O's. I don't, I don't want a male, I don't want a male playing Money Penny either.

Like, it's like, I just like the character in my head. John Hamm would be great. As Money Penny. Yeah. But if it's like another secretary, sure. Like, Anne is a position. I don't remember an uproar when Judy. Dengch took over as M.

No. It seems so right. Because M is not... See, that's what I'm saying. Like that's the right... M is a position. Okay. A female double O age and I'm way on more with.

But here's a point, though. I think the reason people didn't have an uproar when Judy Densh became M because they're like, they're trading up an acting, talent, story, everything about that story and everything... If there was a way to do that with a female bond, there would be no issue. Like, that... That would be an amazing thing. Yeah.

Here's what I will say right now. Yeah. If the fan theory of James Bond being a code name is somehow canonically correct, then I am a thousand percent on board. Oh, come on. That's all you need to make it be a female James Bond. Yeah. Just like all I needed was Dr.

Who to be an alien who regenerates. But Phil our man in the East when his great article about Casino Royale. out says something to the effect of Craig is his, you know, kind of in and in a way his last bomb because the next bond will be younger than him. And I kind of agree with that because also Craig, his era solidified what I loved about Bond. Like I think they've done the most amazing things with the franchise since the beginning in Craig's era.

And so I kind of have this feeling of like after that, it's over to the next generation. And I'll see him, but they're kind of like, well, first, of all, that whole thing of like, this is my Bonner, this is my Star Wars, is absolute or shit. As much as I didn't really care for The Last Jedi, I liked it, fan. That whole fan resistance thing is one of the most laughable things in cultural history.

I told you. I told you. My new favorite genre of YouTube right after that movie came out was fan boys complaining about Last Jedi surrounded by Star Wars merch. But I kind of want to see what the next generation does, like over to them now. Like, let's see, I want to see it and maybe not understand it completely and kind of have to find it through them. And that interests me because something needs to change.

They can't go on with the same Craig storyline without Craig. And it needs to reinvent itself. It has to reboot in the same way that Craig. Yeah. They foolishly created all tied together, which was ridiculous. I like it. I'll tell you, as a casual fan, I like it. Really?

Yeah. You like that it tied together. I like that it tied together. I like that it gave me a little more, it gave a little weight to the actions and to, the character who can be at his lightest such a throwaway character. Yeah, I like those movies all mashed together for me. What is it about James Bond? Can I pitch you a great James Bond?

Sure. Please. Denai Guerrera, Okoye, who's the warrior, like the guard. She was my favorite thing about that movie. She has such, like she actually has a lot of the same characteristics as Daniel Craig. I agree. where she has weight, she has purpose. She can deliver a line.

Yeah. And I think she'd be an amazing bond. She's a little old if they wanted to go young, but I think she's an amazing bond. How old is she? She's about 40. Roger Moore was 45 when he's done. But I mean, like, if,

because I do think it would be interesting after Craig to get a 25-year-old. Now that's an interesting thing where I actually do you feel like the character. See, this is interesting. Do you or do you do that series about, how he gets he or she gets broken. I think, well, that's what Casino Real was.

But there is something to bond where he is used, you know, and I wonder how, like, is that, but I don't know, I mean, this is my point that, like, we've seen this version for 50 years now. Right. So whatever you want to do with it,

if it's worth doing, that's worth making an argument for it. Try three, and if it doesn't work, go another direction. Yeah. We were at, it's happened before. I'd still love to see, period.

A period movie. It would be amazing. I know. Now, now, that's an interesting question. I don't think you could do a female version of a period piece. Could you the bond who's never talked about? Or, but it would have to, it would have to be a totally different bond because a woman in that era would be facing so many different things. That would be fascinating. Yeah, I guess you could do it. It would just be very fascinating. It would be very good. Didn't they do a movie on the female Russian sniper that was played by Roger Moore? By Roger Moore. By Rachel. Vice in Enemy at the Gates.

Yeah, isn't that what she's playing in that? She's not a sniper. Oh, it's, um... It's a... Zyzef played by Joseph Fines. I imagine. I remember... Jude Law.

No, he's played by Joseph. But whatever it is. Like, The 60s is the hero of that movie. I don't know. She's great in. The 60s said Bond would be amazing. And even...

I hope they do it. Someone should write that even if it's not Bond. I don't know. Well, that's kind of what man from uncle is. Yeah, I guess I watched it. Did you watch it? I liked it a lot. Yeah.

I am very, like, it's so interesting. interesting. But like, why not open up the franchise? Why not have 006, 005? Why don't we follow those? Oh, that's likely what they'll do. Which would be great. And those, by all means, can be whoever, of whatever species, they could be an alien, could be Alf, if Alf wants to be 004. That's it. He's come from Melmac. We need him to go in there. And every mission he's struggling with not eating Blofeld's cat. That's the climax of the movie That is brilliant

That is brilliant Alf versus Blofeld's cat Let's do it But yeah no I think if they open up the double That's sort of I don't know why it's a thing in my head of like But James Bond is James Bond And why not have 004 be like a Natalia robot

Well I know you're not alone And I know that that's a divisive issue But I just glad we brought it off Weirdly feel I feel bad with this thought Like I don't like how I feel about it thought. But it just, I don't know. Well, you're going to have people that agree and people that wholly disagree with you on that.

Just like I am too. Pop on Twitter once a week now, if that. Yeah, that's good. That's healthy. Yeah. That place. All right. Let's wrap up the discussion. Oh, I don't think so. We have a lot more to talk about. The one thing I do want to talk about is horse dive.

Yeah. The horse dive. And could a horse play 007. I don't see why not. I think a horse could play 005. three, okay? Like, if a horse played 003, I'm on board.

That's what you guys aren't understanding. No, we understand. If a horse with, you know, obviously I would want it to be a male horse, a stallion. Yeah, the horse dive with its, I'm very confused as to what we're looking at

in the close-up shot of Sean Connery and Kim Basinger. When they go over the wall? Yes, because I'm, when they go to the close-up of it, where the sun is like in front of them somehow. Like, it's just, I'm not sure what. Kershner. What Kershner's doing.

I'll tell you what I was doing. I was doing, maybe you've heard of it, what's called art, cinema. All right, taste. I'm showing you something in the abstract that gives you the feeling of the intended written scene. And that is, well, now I've forgotten. It's for a horse to be at the, The sun?

I hate horses. Can I say? I was really... I know it's not real, but I've also seen how they abused animals in this movie. I was really worried about that horse, but then they showed it swimming away. I was like, if they don't show that horse,

I'm going to assume it drowned. Yeah, yeah. It was one of the... But they did show it, which I appreciate it. It lands on its back. It does. It's... That's the best way for a horse to enter water. Is that true?

I don't know. I genuinely wonder how that... was shot, like from what height was that horse with the riders going in shot? I'm sure it is. But actually, like, it looked pretty good in the landing. Yeah. It looked like it was coming from a height. Yeah.

And those stunt people, like, that's a really dangerous move. Well, they probably got the horse from the horse diving movie. Oh, of course. What's the horse diving movie? What? Scarlett Johansson in a horse diving movie? Wild horses can't be broken. Wait, Scarlet Johansans in a horse diving movie?

Wild hearts can't be broken. Wild hearts can't be broken. That's a horse diving movie. It's a Disney movie. It's a horse diving movie. believe it's horse diving. You know the genre of horse diving, right? I know it. I started it. I'm familiar with the circus feet of diving

from a tall height into a small pool but also being a horse. The horse diving genre has been around in cinema since the 1930s. And God bless it. When Clara Boe 2003 got his start diving in the circus, the horse double O agent. That's how they recruited him. Yeah.

I've never seen a horse dive like this. Or her. Like this. Horse diving movie. I'm Googling it. While you're looking at it. Wild Hearts can't be broken. My sister's love that movie. The film.

And this is not the one Scarlet Johansson's in. No, it's not. Is she in another horse diving? I feel like she's in. It's Gabrielle Anwar. Gabrielle Anwar. Remember her scent of a woman? Do I?

I just watched that for I was there too. She tangoed with Al Pacino. And then she was later in Burn Notice. What else was? That's it. Three movies. Okay. Okay.

She was in, no, that was Kimberly Williams. I love, by the way, that there's the 50 best horse movies. And somehow I don't see Sea Biscuit. Where is a spirit of the Cimarron? Is she father of the bride? No, that's Kimberly Williams. I went through that same thing. Married to Brad Paisley.

Isn't that fun? The Pays? The Pays. The wonderful guitar player slash country. music. Gabriel Al-Avarez was known for dancing with Al Pacino and then being in the movie. The movie dancing with Al Pacino? Yeah.

Okay. About architecture. Here's the plot to Wild Hearts can't be broken according to horse. Yes, of course. I mean, I don't know why you'd want to miss the plot to Wild Hearts can't be broken. Or we could just wrap up. This is according to Horse Nation. No, I don't care.

How many PPC breaks have to happen here? If you want to go to your other bathroom, I will happily talk about this horse movie. Okay. By myself. All right. All right. So everyone at home, here's the, We've lost everyone, by the way, after my crazy discussion. Wild Hearts Can't Be Broken from 1991.

Set in Atlantic City during the Depression era, this is the story of Sonora Webster, a runaway who gets a job in the girl and the horse eye-diving act of Dr. Carver. The film is based on the memoirs of Sonora Webster, a girl and five brave horses. Oh, no, that means four of those horses died. The high-diving horses were recently in the news when the Steel Pier briefly considered bringing them back

before quickly realizing their mistake. So that's Wild Hearts Can't Be Broken. And I'm also trying to figure out what the name of the movie is that has... There's Dreamer with Dakota Fanning, Secretariat with Diane Lane, and John Malcovic. I never saw that.

You know what's weird is there's more horse movies than I... care to know about, to know about, guys, listen. So I guess what I'm saying is, I just think that there could be a horse James Bond pretty easily. You know, if the horse had like all kinds of gadgets in his saddle or her saddle, you know, you think the horse, like, you think the reins are just rains, but all of a sudden the rains fire lasers.

Can I interrupt for a second? You built that horse gadget? Oh, hey guys. I know you're monologuing. But can I interrupt for one second? As much as I like my suggestion for Akoye to play James Bond, I want to go back to this because I've never gotten to talk about this anywhere and it seems like this is the right place.

In a podcast where everyone is stopped listening? Yeah, yeah. How do you feel about the same actor appearing in multiple franchises? It is weird. Right? Yeah. I don't want someone to be in Marvel movies and Star Wars. It feels like it's hogging it for someone else.

Oh, that's interesting. Right. Yeah, I mean, I guess I would prefer that, though, over people playing different parts in the same franchise. Well, sometimes that's not avoidable. Yeah. Is it? Like Ryan Reynolds, right? We couldn't.

Well, he's been in two superheroes. Yes, Ryan Reynolds is the thing that we're thinking. But also two in the Marvel. He's done two in the Marvel plus Green Lantern. Well, no, he played both. Deadpool in both of the Marvel movies you're thinking of. Oh, but they were different. They were different shades of Deadpool.

One incorrect and one correct. Can I interrupt for a second? Let's wrap this fucker up. Boy, oh boy. Oh, do we have to? You are so mean to our listeners. If you don't think they turned off at my horse monologue, and quite frankly, you don't know. What do you think a fancy James Bond type horse would be into?

Good job. as far as like food is concerned. You think he'd like have to have his hay brought in for a special? I've never made it to the end of one of your podcasts. How do you wrap this up? Neither have I. Well, I do. Let's give it a rating,

but I want to talk about what you've got coming. I love it. No one's listening anymore, Matt. Yes, they are. Well, if they aren't, that's on me. When does this episode plop? Monday night. Love it.

Everybody, I hope you will check out. Oh, this coming Monday? Yeah. Listen, if you're at San Diego Comic-Con, come and hang out with me. I'm doing two panels on Friday. The first one is about pop culture witches. Cool.

Who's on it? I'm glad you ask. Nell Scoville, the creator of the 90s, Sabrina the Teenage Witch. Oh, the two creator showrunners of the C.W. Charmed reboot. Nice. Ruth Connell, who plays the witch Rowena

in many supernatural episodes. Cool. A couple of other people, including a practicing witch. It should be a lot of fun. Oh, like a Lori Cabot, who is the main witch of Salem, Massachusetts. Lori still practices the witchcraft. Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah.

Witch laureate? I honestly, yes. She's America's Witch Laureate. I'll call her America's favorite witch. I looked her up because I want to interview her because I'm worried. The other panel I'm doing is the Vertigo Comics panel. So 5 to 7 p.m. on Friday, come see me at San Diego to talk about these. things. I have a new vertigo book called Hex Wives, which comes out in October, which is about...

It's a great title. It is about two things. It's what if Samantha from Bewitched did not know she was a powerful witch and was a suburban housewife not by design. Someone was keeping her there, so it's about how she figures that out. It's also about the insidious ways men control women. Wow. That is out in October. Please call up your local comic shop, ask for a copy of Hex Wives. It's really good. My artist is amazing. My colorist is unbelievable making it look so good. Like, they're saving me from myself on this book. That's the best thing you can do for a new comic that's coming out to help the author and the artist is to call up your local shop and ask them to order it. You can pre-order the book through them. Even if they're not planning on carrying it, you can put it on your pull list and they will pull it.

It makes a big, I didn't realize what a big difference. I wish I had done it in the past for books that I loved. And it's like, I have a hundred issues of this book I want to do. I need people to go and pre- order it so I get to do at least 20 of them. Go do that. Please go do that. Because I know Ben to be one of the most creative, wonderful writers there are. And if you're passionate about that, that would be a gift to

the comic book reading world. And if we can get them past issue 100, into issue 101, where... Oh, and then he gets syndication. Where... She accidentally turns Darren into a horse. Quite frankly...

That's what we replace. 1-101. Darren gets replaced by a horse. Dick York, Dick Sargent, a horse. Guys, thank you for having me on the show. Well, we're not done yet. We have to rate this movie. From 00-0-0-0-7. Oh, boy. What do you give Never Say Never Again? I'm going to give it a 00-3. I think it's in the middle of the pack. I enjoyed watching it more than I thought of it. I think I'm a 00-3 as well. This might be the first unanimous since. Jinks. Three weeks ago when we did Casino Royale.

Double three. Buy me a horse. Bigh me a horse. What? I stopped. My brain is stuck working. Something I want to talk about business-wise that we haven't even really talked about on this show.

We should be talking about more. And that is Matt and I are coming to London to do James Bonding for the London podcast. Can you believe it? When is this? Kingsplace.com. UK, look for the London podcast thing. All the information is there. We'll be there in September.

I forget the exact date that we're before. September 16th, that's Sunday. We're going to be there. I believe Matt and I have both agreed to wear suits. I think so. The same thing like that. Yeah. I think we're going to come out in one of those talking head suits that we both have fit in.

Yeah. We have to decide who's the lefty and who's the righty. Right. It's going to be good. At the knights of knee. Do you, is it going to be just the two of you? You're going to do something special for James Bond. We have to really just sort of figure that out.

I think what, since we're going to be in London, I think, I think, I might put out a feeler or two. He should. For some people that may or may not be involved. No promises. No promises. But we'll be there. I'll be there doing, I was there too, super ego.

A man is going to be there with complete woman. Paul F. Thompson's going to be there with spontaneation. There's all sorts of stuff going on. And I will have an entirely free Saturday. So if anyone wants to hit up Bond in Motion with me at the museum. That's a good idea. Then, quite frankly, we should make that happen. Yeah. Well, we're about a minute 52. So, did you just start recording?

Oh, I'm sorry, an hour 52. I was looking at the wrong time. You know, I could see a horse as a double O, but not. James Bonding will return. James Bonding Podcast. Hey, this is Arnie Neacamp from the Improft Fantasy podcast. Hello from the Magic Tavern. I fell through a dimensional portal behind a Burger King in Chicago into the magical land of food. and I started a podcast. Season three has just begun

with a brand new adventure to defeat the Dark Lord. If you're a new listener or you've fallen behind season three is a great jumping on point. And we've got great guests like Justin McElroy. I sat like a fancy college professor.

Fake Nats. Rachel Bloom. You all see my collection of men, corpses, and one woman. Felicia Day and Colton Dunn. You've seen me have intercourse with a variety of species. It's a bummer.

Andy Daly. You have the members of Genesis listed, but Phil Collins has crossed out and then circled it crossed out again. Yes, I have killed Phil Collins twice. Thomas Middle Ditch. Jesus, I mean, Jarzos. Ruler of the eighth circle. And that's just the beginning.

Season three, A Fellow from the Magic Tavern is out now. Listen in Stitcher, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.