James Bonding - No Time To Die Discussed!

Episode Date: December 18, 2024

Bond lovers-not-experts Matt and Matt finally sit down for the first time to talk to each other, much less anyone, about No Time To Die. This episode is a brief non-spoiler into heavy spoiler discussion of the 25th Bond and final Craig 007 film. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Matt and Matt and Matt and James Bonding Podcast. James Bonding Podcast. It's the James Bonding Podcast. It's the James Bonding podcast. Wow, Matt, here we are. It's post No Time to Die. There's the world that existed pre No Time to Die. Yes. And it was a hellscape, pandemic ridden wasteland. And now it's post no time to die and the world is fixed. I would say pre No Time to Die would not recommend. no time to die. Having a great time. Yep. It's a whole different world now. There is a three-hour buffer you need for the movie because it takes so long.

I was watching it and there were trailers playing. And then when the movie finally started, I looked at my watch and I had gone to an 11 a.m. screening. I looked at my watch and it started playing at 1130. And I was like, oh my God. Wait a minute. Between 30 minutes of previews and 30 plus minutes of the opening sequence, it's really an hour before you even into this movie proper. I mean, it felt like eternity, but also I will say, I was like, because I went in the morning by myself. Which I contend is the best way humanly possible to see a movie. No better way to see a movie.

No. I was really engaged. As far as like the movie was concerned, it never felt long to me, which I was worried. I was dire. I was like, this is going to feel like the end. A lot of people have been saying that. This two hours and 43 minutes did not feel like two hours and 43 minutes. No, it felt like two hours and 40 minutes.

So well done. Not for me. It felt like two minutes and 43 seconds. But listeners, fellow James Bond fans, lovers, not experts. This is the first time Matt and I have actually engaged on the subject of, how did we feel about the movie? That's right. And so we haven't done this podcast in like 18 months with the exception of a couple of weeks ago.

we put out a pre no time to die thoughts. And we left it on a bit of a cliffhanger as to whether or not I would even see this movie. Because if anyone that listened to that episode knows, I had a ticket to the premiere, which was a day after my wife was due with our first child. And I was in a moral quandary as to whether or not this was going to be feasible or not. Luckily, Amanda is like, just go. Because by the time the day rolled around, she's like, now I haven't any contractions. Also, my daughter came three days late.

so I'm so glad that I went. Oh, she gave you a buffer. Are you kidding me? I mean, this daughter's amazing. Already, I'm, you know, like, I love her so much. But the fact that she's like, don't worry, pop, I'm going to hang in here. You go see this bond film that is an end of an era. And then when I'm out, we'll start a whole new bond era and we'll have that together.

So, like, her first bond is going to be a new bond. I mean, it's going to be new to both of you. That's kind of great. It's amazing. I'm just realizing that right now. whole thing has got me so sentimental because as we'll talk about, by the way, I guess we should say this is a spoiler discussion of no time. Yeah. Unless we want to do non-spoiler thoughts up front. Well, look, I think we can devote the next seven minutes to non-spoiler discussions of the movie.

Here's what I will say regarding this film. Didn't feel long, which for a two-hour and 45-minute movie, that is saying a lot. did not feel long to me. Visually, I thought it was stunning. I agree. I was just going to say the same word, stunning. It was one of the best-looking James Bond movies I've ever seen. Which is saying something coming on the heels of the Deacons joint.

Yep. Sorry, Deeks. Sorry, Deeks. Looks like someone else got a hold of a, you know, crane. Items the brakes, Deeks. Someone else got a hold of Lakeside Fire LEDs. I don't know why we're mocking Deakins. He's one of the best artists out there. Sorry, Deeks, but your podcasting isn't as good as ours.

How dare he? I'm not rolling in becoming a director of photography. You know, he decides he's going to have a podcast during the pandemic. That's rude. Good for him. Be excellent at your thing. Don't take my thing that I'm okay at. I know.

Don't come in and do something we do okay. better and you're not even one of those people. That is just rude. Yeah. I'm talking to you, Will Arnett. Rude. Don't come in here and do a better podcast. Anyway, that said, Craig felt like most of the time he wanted to be there.

Yeah. That was the distinct difference from Spector. Yeah. We know we went into Spector coming out of that. with rose-colored glasses. But I'll say even when I saw Specter, and I think I even mentioned it on that first podcast maybe, when he's escaping from Blowfelt's layer,

he feels like his diamonds are forevering it out of there. His pace is languid. He's just kind of can't be bothered. He's like, I know you're planning the biggest explosion ever captured on film, but it's going to take me a little while to get away from it. So just wait for me. Wait for me.

I am not a complaint because God knows we seeing Craig's, We love the man. And, oh, well, my thoughts, if I could just have a second here, let me try to articulate something. Because you and I saw Specter together and, you know, your experience seeing the movie colors the movie itself. And you and I had, remember we had that nice little, it wasn't self-romance.

It was like double romance where we went to a little cafe. It was, it was right. It was right as right. It was right. It was romantic. And we had such a nice time. we came out of that loving that movie. I came out of this movie loving it and I'm fully understanding that I have the like

propensity to do that to movies, but I think I've finally gotten to the bottom of something. And that is I don't look at bond movies necessarily as movies. It's like it's an unconditional love where you know you have your family and you have your friends but you have your nuclear family like your wife and now your son and my daughter that you love unconditionally and day by day it fluctuates up and down about how you feel about whatever blah blah blah I just love these movies so unconditionally and I don't even want to apologize for that so I don't even know if I'm looking at this with a critical eye although I'll say that I do look at

this movie with a critical eye and I'm happy with what I see I just want to go in I'm an easy mark and I think everybody should have something in their life that they're an easy mark for because what else is the point of living? You know, for some people, it's Marvel movies. For some people, it's a band. James Bond is that for me. I want to go in and I want to sit down and I want to not ask questions about whether this is good or not.

I just want to be taken away. And this one, like you said, I went kind of, I think it started at noon. I was by myself, although I was crammed in with a bunch of other people. Sure. That was a weird thing about this preview is that they alternated every other row, but everybody was seated next to each other in full rows. really strange. Oh, well, that's not how air works. It's not. No. Should we

tell them? No. And, uh, but just, just that. And then, and then maybe we should get into spoiler discussion because yeah, but I will say one, right before we get into that. I will say here's my, here's my, here's my bullet point review that you can then go into this movie however you would like. This movie perfectly encapsulates everything about the Daniel Craig era of James Bond.

Right. From the ups to the downs. It is all there in a smorgasbord two-hour, 45-minute feast with very little famine. But it's all there. Things you don't like about it, things you love about it. Very representative of all of it. So I would say, no time to die is a Daniel Craig Bond movie to a T. Yeah.

And would you agree that remember last time we predicted where this would fall in the Craig rankings. It did fall where I thought it would be, which is, you know, after skyfall before Quantum of Solace in the middle. But I would put it like if the middle is drawn halfway through, I would definitely put it on the higher side of that like closer to Skyfall than I even like Quantum of Salas. Yes. Like it's right behind Skyfall and, you know, Casino Royals. I agree. This is not going to be one of those movies where you run into the quantum problem of like, Five years from now, you go, wait a second. What happened in that?

Oh, you don't think so? I don't think so. The plot of quantum, the plot of this movie is secondary to the movie. Okay, I agree. Because that being said in nothing. I don't even know what this plot is. I know. We'll talk about it, but I agree completely.

But that, it really is true where you texted me something about, yes. About heart overhead. Yeah. What was it? So in the movie, this is. now we're entering sort of spoiler territory. So if you really don't want anything spoiled, like I didn't want anything spoiled for this movie. So I really only saw a trailer or two.

And that was that. So here we are. Okay. So in the movie, when Bond returns to MI6, we're in the hallway and we see the painting of Judy Dench, which at first I'm like, oh, that's very sweet. But then the camera cuts to a different angle and I see Bernard Lee painted as well. I saw, I thought I saw Robert Brown, too. It's like literally a... Did you see Robert Brown too? I think it's a hall of M's. Which made you think, how do I get a hall of M's?

Right. Okay. So that is a... So that is a... So I said to Matt, I was like, that... Seeing the paintings of those two warmed my heart but hurt my brain. And then I said, that's exactly what this movie is. It's heart overhead and that you even get that with the plot.

And because the character and the relationships and the visual are... artistry of this movie is so strong, but the plotting is really rough. But to me, that was getting back to what I say about being an easy mark and this unconditional love. I want the heart over the head. I'd love to have them both, but if the head's missing, my heart's already, for lack of that term, in love, I don't care, you know. Now, were you expecting the ending that we got? it had crossed my mind but I even up until the very end kept thinking like they're gonna flip it it's not gonna happen it's not gonna happen remember I was talking about the spoiler that I knew yeah what was it by the way it was the daughter ah sure and so that's another reason that this goddamn thing hit me like because I also this Craig era I started when 2006 had kind of gone through a breakup right you know in it it had had some similar themes to the Vesper thing, let's just say. And then ended up in such a wonderful place with Amanda and now this daughter that, I mean, it's hard not, I was completely projecting

on it. Yeah, sure. It wasn't anything more than that. But I'm just like, you can't watch something like this that matters so much to you, even if it's, you know, frivolous entertainment and not have it seen through the lens of your life. And so it was just hitting me in so many levels that by the time that ending rolled around with the daughter factored into that and Madeline, I was just, I wasn't crying or anything, but I was just so... I wasn't either. Yeah, it's weird. I suppose I got a little glassy-eyed, but I don't know. It was shocking. It was shocking to me that I watched this character I love, played by this actor I love,

get blown to smithereens, and my reaction was nothing. Nothing, you mean like... It was just like, huh, okay. Oh, really? I wasn't that. I was moved for, for... sure. No, I was moved. I was moved. I was moved in the post him dying stuff. Like, I was moved in the scene at MI6 with the drinks. And I was moved in the car in the Aston Martin with fucking Louis Armstrong playing and the beautiful, like the sunlight hitting both of them. Is that the DBS? Yeah. Yeah, from. I was just so, I was so

enthralled with that. And that hit me correctly, I think. But like the moment of The moment of watching James Bond's character get killed, it's just one of those things that, like, I never thought, I never thought I would see this in my life. I never in my million years thought that I would be around for any writer-director producing team to decide, okay, let's kill James Bond. And now we probably know by deduction that the creative difference with Danny Boyle was that the producers maybe wanted this to happen. And all reports now are that he was going to do a lighter, more mirthful version and maybe didn't want to do this. And that's where they forked or something. Which is wild because it felt like, you know, not knowing anything at the time, I think you and I both thought it was the other way around. I totally did.

Which makes me think Purvis and Wade are responsible for all the best stuff in this thing. Like, we've been completely wrong. We might be the worst Jan Bond fans. Like, we're just completely wrong about everything about the franchise. I think that the, yeah, having a kid now and seeing the movie, which, you know, this is the first time, this is the first movie, James Bondway that's come out since I've had a kid. That's crazy. So it also felt like all the, all the child moments now in media and stuff like that, really, it hits you like so hard. Mm-hmm.

Even stuff that you used to watch that involved a child that, you know, I watch stuff now, reruns of things, or, like, I watched an episode of Star Trek The Next Generation that had to do with a kid. And I was like, really emotionally taken aback by it. And then I just thought back to previous me who didn't have a kid who hated the episode. And I was like, you monster. Fast me was a monster. How did he not see the emotion that is just pouring forth in space right now? But the movie as a whole, it just, it felt like, I mean,

I thought, I don't know. I want to say Felix got a more fitting ending than Bond did. In some ways, yeah. But the brutality of the way Bond died was the perfect way to kill Daniel Craig's James Bond. You know what I mean? I agree. It was, it was both like overly sentimental and then no sentiment at all. And the, like a missile barrage, sure, it's the only way you can kill that man with those abs.

Come on. But I will say it's funny, the pre-2020 when this movie was made, this wrapped in October 2019, the, or started shooting, whatever, I just saw a slate with Carrie and Dale Craig that's at October of 2019. So that's some, so the movie was being made on that day. So you go forward in time here. And what we've been through now is a planet with this global pandemic. the consequences for Bond felt so frivolous in the sense of like, oh no, you can't touch, physically touch the person you love. Oh, well, like, we're all, we all went through that, James Bond. You'd sort of deal with it.

Like, you know, make it work. Get some gloves, some PPE. Maybe get a nice house with some glass walls. No, no, it's more. relevant than ever. You can't touch the ones you love. I know, but I was also, I was like, I was just watching going like, okay, now the entire world just went through this. And this, now James Bond is like, well, that's it then. I have to go. I'm dying. But you know, it's funny how they always pride themselves of being five minutes into the future, which they were when

they were making this. But then now with the delay, they're five minutes in the past. Yes. It's really ironic and interesting. But like, that was sort of the thing where I was just like, no, James, that's not, that's not the end. There's Zoom. You can Zoom with your wife and child. No. Every day you want to zoom them for two and a half hours to five hours. You want to have meals together?

We're doing that nowadays. We're having Thanksgiving. James Bond does not Zoom. He does not Zoom. I just was like, oh, this would have made more of an impact for me a year ago or two years ago. Well, that's kind of what I'm saying is that even with the relevance of this, the unintentional relevance. I was so able to just let go that I forgot about the real world, even with this connection. I mean, obviously, I made the intellectual connection, but I was just

like, this world doesn't exist in the world. And I don't remember the last time my movie's done that, and that's what this franchise does to me. So good, bad, or otherwise, I really can't wait to see it again because they're also, I saw it at Man Chinese. It was IMAX. There was some real, I've purchased for this movie. I was only able to use one. I purchased three rounds and went to one. Gave the others away. But there was some muffled dialogue I couldn't understand at times, especially with Saffin.

Yeah, from his choice of accent was interesting. But just the mix, even the mix was off. I don't know if it was the theater or what, because otherwise the sound design was pretty amazing in this movie. So, I mean, let's just. Let's start to walk it back, start at the beginning of them. Okay, actually, let me do this. How do you feel about the fact they killed James Bond? I mean, it was definitely on my mind.

And, you know, even Amanda was like, do you think, do you think he'll die? Because, you know, it happened in Logan, the Wolverine movie. It kind of didn't happen in Dark Night Rises, but kind of did, you know. It happened with Robert Downey Jr. and the Avengers. So, again, they're kind of like what's popular. It's the, you know, Tide universe and all this stuff. I think I would have not preferred it, but then when I saw it, I completely accepted it. And I'm fine with it because also there are 25 of these goddamn movies.

So yeah, let's kill them in one out of 25 movies and see what that's like. Right. But, okay. And then that's the heart part over everything, right? That's the heart. Because you're like... It's fitting for Craig's era. It's very fitting.

Absolutely. But it also was just like, it just was kind of like, that's the way, that's the way he goes out, huh? What would you have pictured or wanted? Not suicide by missiles. It wasn't suicide. It was sacrificed by missiles. Oh, wait, I'm sorry. Let's be honest.

But also it was like, can't, they didn't even write any dialogue about the fact that like, can't you just fucking turn the. missiles off or like destruct self-destruct them he can't he can't because no no the navy i know but why would he he really is committing suicide because no no but like give me 10 minutes i'm gonna get on my little submarine airplane boat but he doesn't want to live because he can't be with the ones he loves but he has not known the beauty of a kn95 and some nice no matt this is telling you some This is your like right-hand drive seat for it's not going to happen. I have to just, I have to, I have to. It's not a viable path.

But like also like, you know, I just feel like as a man who spent a lot of time looking through interrogation windows, maybe two way. What if it's called glass and you guys sort of live together in a house of glass? Pierce Brosnan loves through glass. Daniel Craig breaks through glass. He does. He would accidentally break the glass and kill his family. All right, fine.

I mean, but it was just like, I don't know. I just wish that he was able to get the bunny to his daughter. The do-do. I bought a doo-do for my daughter. Oh my God, that's amazing. Henry, but I was like so emotionally invested because Henry has a bunny called bunny. He's not very creative. He's two and a half.

And he take, you know, it's like, well, if we're going somewhere, I'll be like, do you want to take bunny? And he'll say yes or no. and if he brings bunny, he's like always holding bunny and he's always very careful about where bunny is and what bunny's doing. And like the idea of like, if we were like running out of time

and Henry was like, Bunny, I would lie to Henry. I would be like, bunny's going to be just fine. And I would go into the closet where we have a second backup bunny. Oh, smart. Which is I would caution you right now.

if you think your kid is going to be attached to any thing, get a backup. And you have to switch them out so that they get worn and weathered at the same rate? Yes, every so often, it's like, grab bunny. Here it is. Smart. So, but anyway, so I feel like James Bond should have been like, I'll just order another one from Bond to Kia. Another. Another bunny.

And then I don't have to go back for it. And then I'm not killed by Safin. Well, let's start at the top of this thing. There was no physicality to that fight either. Okay, yes, let's start at the top. There we go. The big question answered. Okay, so we're starting out of the gate with the gun barrels.

Yes. No blood. No blood. I think that that is a deliberate telegraphing that Bond misses his target and is going to die for the first time ever. Oh, that's an interesting, that is an interesting way to look at it. Why else would they do that? I don't know. That's as good a reason as any. I guess when I was watching it, I just was like, no blood. All right. There's been no consistency to his gun barrels, the entire franchise. Very true. It's very strange.

Like there has been, Bond, Daniel Craig is the most consistently inconsistent, James Bond. Yep. And that's his consistency. That's right. You get the charm and the whimsy of a Roger Moore. That's his thing. You get the sort of chauvinist, slick black hair. The panther-like term. Yeah, of a Sean Connery. And you get the broodingness of Timothy Dalton.

And Lasonby's the most consistent because he's only got one data point. Yeah, and then you've got the average. The hurt acting of Pierce Prousden. And that is their consistencies. And Daniel Craig is inconsistent. That is his consistency. He's chaotic. He's the loose cannon.

He's going to burst through that drywall into your hearts. And then this gun barrel comes in and it's an overhead shot. And we're in Norway for what, you know, I'm not the first to say this as many people are calling a little horror sequence within a James Bond movie, like almost a genre piece. Yeah. You know what's funny is when he, when Saffin returns into Madeline Swan's life and hands the box over, I really thought the Tomoguchi was going to be in there. I did. I swear to God. And he was going to be like, I've been feeding it for years. Please, I'm sick and tired.

Take this. That's all I want. My whole motivation is available. Just kill Blofeld for me so I can get rid of this Tamaguchi. These nanobots are supposed to infect small LCD creatures. Why am I Werner Herzog? But yeah, the second the kitchen sink gun is there, you're, you know, I'm immediately like, oh, cool, we're seeing it.

Even the bleach is there. Yeah, yeah. I was just like, wow, okay, so we're going to see it now. And then we have, I'm just, how long after his family died, do you think this was? It's not clear. Because in the photos, he's a child, right? But you don't know how long ago this happened. Right.

So let's just be, do you fully see his face ever? No. in that scene. You do not, correct? I don't believe so now. So let's pretend he was 16, 17 years old. Okay. Whatever. So he goes... Oh, you mean at this point. Yeah. The timeline for his age is... Is wonky as all get out. But like, that's the least, that's the least annoying thing about it or least inconsistent thing about it. I could care less. Um, but like, oh, and the girl I thought the little girl that played her as a child, I thought was very good. Very good boat.

Yeah. And she kind of looked like her. Yeah. This whole sequence, first of all, you're getting two opening sequences for the price of one in this thing. Or five. Is this the ever first flashback,

like multi-era flashback in a Bond movie? Uh, yeah, as far as I can remember. Yeah, me too. Yeah. Yeah, I can't think of anything else.

And so I just, the dialogue between the mother and Madeline. Oh, yeah. this segment and the way it looks, the location, the setting, and then to move into that Matera sequence, I was so jazzed by this, the whole opening section. I was kind of like, the idea of like that like the 12 minutes of the movie that James Bond is happy, I just was like, all right, bud, you earned it. I know.

Enjoy, enjoy your time with your lady. Yeah. But I will say the forgive me note going to Vesper's grave, him like him saying, I miss you. I thought that was like, thought that was great. Yeah, me too. It did feel like, you know, it was a little undoing of Quant of Solis's sort of like let go of, you know, we both have to let go of this. Like that was the sort of moral of that. Yeah.

It's definitely, these movies are definitely out of order. order thematically, even Skyfall, which thematically should somehow come at the end of all this, where quantum in some of its half-hearted attempts at resolution kind of undercut this as well. But yeah, it's an imperfect saga, obviously, because movie-to-movie, they were not planned out. But if you take them piece by piece and then the feeling of the overall, I like. I agree. but the action sequence that followed the blowing up of her family tomb was just awesome it was just great you've got I loved the henchman oh come on Cyclops

Primo I like that guy he was he was very hateable yeah and also had the physical quirk of a bond henchman yes slash villain like I really enjoyed everything about him and I also really love that no one's ever prepared for machine guns to come out of an Aston Martin. Like, how many times are you dealt with this man? You know what's going to happen. I know. Even like Logan Ash, the CIA guy, knows of James Bond. Yeah. And the fact that no one's ever done donuts with these machine guns in any movie that I can think of too is pretty amazing.

But like, yeah, they've replaced the machine guns. It's like gaddling guns on there instead of like the little tiny machine guns from, uh, from gold. The gold finger. The browning 30 calibers, you mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure. Yes, that's exactly what I mean, actually. Where is all the ammo for these gatwing guns?

I think it's all, the rear seat is entirely made of bullets. Just bullets. I wish, I do wish that he put the shield up, the back, the windscreen thing. I guess you don't need it now that you've got this, all this bulletproof glass. Grade glasses, yeah. But that scene I thought was just terrific. It was great to see the Aston Martin doing its thing. I thought Dale Craig's suits were tighter than ever.

Not as tight as skyfall to me. I don't know. That blue, the number, that tan number is wearing at the top. Yeah, that corduroe. Yeah, it is tight. Very tight. How are you going to really jump a motorcycle in that? You know, you're going to split the pants.

Unfortunately, I think maybe the best action was in this opening sequence. So action-wise, it was a bit of a downhill from the on. I agree. I agree particularly with the fact that, like, the climax in the layer was like pretty meh. Yeah. And the middle part in Cuba was pretty good, but not as good as this beginning. Yeah, that was more entertaining than good. and maybe even at odds with some of the rest of the picture, but kind of fun. We'll get to that.

But this Matera thing, I think it was also just that it was so well woven with what was going on with Bond and Madeline that it gave the action more stakes than the Cuba thing did because they were kind of joking. I really enjoyed it. It's super fun. It was like a great routine and a little film in itself. But the Matera stuff, it's just like character moment into action, into character moment, into action and each one is stepping the other up. I just thought it was maybe one of the best, one of the best sequences in a Bond movie I've seen since probably the parkour sequence and,

I, I can't disagree with that. I also had a little moment of like, wait a second, just thinking about the plot as I was watching the movie, I was like, wait, so did she betray him? I didn't know.

Yeah, I was a little unclear. I mean, maybe now is a good time to get into the plot. This is why I really want to see it again, because I was felt like I was reading so clearly that she didn't, and it was just, we're all with Madeline, that she didn't, waiting for Bond to realize this. I wasn't even so sure why he thought she betrayed him,

but now looking back, I get it, because she suggested he go to the grave. Yeah. It wasn't, like, resonating with me as much. Well, it's like she suggests he go to the grave. He comes back. She has wanted the card packed up. while he's gone.

And she gets a phone call from Blofeld. And then Blowfeld plays it off like, thank you. He did such a good job. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So all of that, like I took all of that at face value for some reason because I'm an idiot. And I was like, yeah, what did she do? She busted betrayed him. Get on that train.

Well, I think you were right to do that. And I think I maybe missed some of that because it probably would have had more impact if you yourself are not totally aware until the time. Can you explain something to me plot-wise? Oh, I hope so. Okay. All right. So you've got Primo with the Bionic Eye.

Yep. And then you've got this number one. Bermere party from Blofeld. Which is great. It's such a fucking Bond thing that you, that wouldn't actually happen in a movie, but no. You think, yeah, that should happen in a movie. That's really dumb.

Let's do that. And then the way that that guy is dispatched by the EMP on the watch with the Bionic Eye was amazing. That was such a great pay. half. And I actually thought they didn't need the one liner because the death itself, it took this piss out of it. Like, get rid of the one liner. Just let that be the thing. That was so cool. So birthday party. So birthday party for Bluffel, which I love. I love that they're having a big spectre birthday party. And there's these specter ghouls with the eye on the pillow. And that's not,

is that the same eye as Cyclops has or is it a different one? I think that's the same eye that Cyclops has. So Cyclops is Blofeld's eye and Blofeld is back at Belmarsh Prison. Yes. And he has a bionic eye and he's a receiver. Okay. So why was Primo not killed by the gas

the same as everybody else at all the other Specter people that were on Team Blofeld? Why is Primo, he's working for Saffin but also helping Blowfell? I couldn't wrap my head around who he was with at first. That, you know, that is that is one of those plot elements where I just was vaguely confused.

Yeah, very confused. Because it was just like, it's hard to, okay, so the plot, let's just sort of try to break down the plot of the movie, which I guess would be what is the plan of the villain, right? So initially it's revenge, right? He wants revenge on Spector for killing his family. Clear? Love it.

Great. I'm on board. A villain that wants to kill Spector? Oh, okay. Let's see what that's like. I love it too. And then he achieves that. I couldn't understand his motivation

for wanting to kill people. It didn't work. A thousand percent. That was where his character fell apart for me. In the sense that he didn't seem to be like, I guess it was at odds with this whole sort of like, you know, when I saw you under the ice, your eyes needed me.

and so I saved you and like yeah I saved I saved your life so that ties us together binds us much like taking a life okay so I'm following all your logic now blowball yeah except but where in that realm is he with where he kidnaps her at the end is it like old school bond villain like you're gonna be my bride or you're like my daughter or you're just mine because we're entwined that I didn't understand that there was no I wish it was clearer like like like in a way of like, I wish she was like, I can't conceive. I've always wanted a child. Or just like, you're my family, just something a little more concrete. And that's why his, his villain role was severely underwritten. I agree. I think. It just wasn't clear. That had to have suffered from some reshoots or something, right? Something. Because it seems weird that you'd go into it with this villain that is so, um, vaguely drawn. Yeah.

I agree. I also don't, but like, man, I don't know what the plot was. Like, okay, so there's a super weapon created by MI6. Money is poured into it. Specifically M. Okay. Yes, specifically M.

That is designed to be a, as he calls it, a perfect assassin. It never misses its target. No collateral damage. It's programmed to the DNA of the intended target, released, and does no damage to any. anyone but your intended target. So if you know who your target is, this is the ideal weapon to use. Don't have to risk any lives of our agents. So this weapon's being developed. Somehow, word of this weapon gets out, which I assume is Dr. Comedy.

Valdo. I love this actor. He's a little over the top of this, but he's very funny. But he's Toby Esther Hasey and Tinker Taylor Soldier Spy. He's so good in that movie. he was in a different movie yeah he was and I was okay with it he was in the Cuba sequence he needed to live in that world

I just was like I also didn't understand him like I like the like okay let's paint let's paint this brush with this guy he's not taking seriously at work

and you know what I mean like he's being made disgruntled yeah and everyone's being a little bit of a dick to him so you're like oh they're bullying him and he's he found a way out here.

Yeah, he's like he's elevated going postal. Yeah. He's going viral. Yes. And then like, you know, when he's watching the magnets work on the elevator shaft, he's like, whoa, magnets. You know, and you're all like, okay, he goes. He used to be in the jugglers.

He really. Insane clown posse. He was having the time of his life down there. So then that floor gets blown up and we're alerted to the fact that this bio-wept has been stolen. We're not sure what it is. And our next notion of it, right, is in Cuba. Yeah. I'm sorry. In Jamaica, when Felix shows up in Jamaica to recruit Bond and they go to that club, one of my favorite things in the movie was Bond going into his villa and finding the Delectado

cigar. Oh, yeah. I laugh. I was the only one to laugh to the theater. Yeah, I did too. I was like,

ah. I had a cue with this. Like, yeah. Dork. But, um,

okay, so in Jamaica, we, we need, they need bond to help track this doctor down. Yeah.

Okay. So it's the CIA specific. Yeah. It's this off the books thing. M's not talking about it. Not even telling the

prime minister what's going on. So, you know, we're in some deep shit here. First, you know, Bond's like, I don't know. But then I guess because he loses the coin game. I think it was more because he didn't like the way MI6 came at him via

Nomi, that he's almost to spite them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also like the whole the hullabaloo that was vaguely, I vaguely was aware, of on the internet when they announced a female 007. Yeah, all that. So funny to me that it was so

nothing. It's so insignificant. All this bitching about this being too woke and too me too. Even if it was it was too much. Where? When was it? I mean, like meaning like I even if it was it was. Yes. The complaining was too much. But it was

insignificant, if anything, a lighthearted theme running through the movie it was like it was oh yeah very positive and if that and also like i found i found the character i thought the movie's character i was good yeah i thought and i thought the interplay between james and her was delightfully rivalry you know yeah the new young buck taken over your spot like it thought that was all fun that was all for me that all worked that whole through line worked do you find because this movie so long i had to go pee and i had to go pee when she came oh that must have been nice. She came to his

bungalow and they have a discussion. And I'd seen some of that in a trailer, so I thought, oh, this is a good time for me to go pee. But I like that the next time I go see this movie. I have just about 45 seconds of a movie I haven't seen yet. That's great. That whole talk in the bungalow

was, it was good. I wouldn't know. You have something to look forward to. That's all that. The peeing was great. The peeing was it was relief, huh? Yeah. That's nice. The, okay. So, We've lost this chemical weapon that M is funding and the CIA is also looking for this doctor. Yeah.

Is the CIA actually looking for this doctor? Or is Book of Mormon James Bond's joke about this guy, aka Phoebe Waller Bridges' joke about this guy? Yeah, it has to be. Or is it him who's getting Felix to look after that guy because he needs to secure him for Safen? Oh, I never put that together. Well, both work and it's cool that you don't know. Well, let me follow this up.

Saffin already has him because Bionic Eye guy has him. So there is no reason for Book of Mormon to need to get to secure the doctor because the doctor is already where this guy wants the doctor to end up but he you know what I'm saying but isn't that but once they get him from Cuba

then he needs for that to happen once they get him from Cuba once Bond yeah but that but this whole setup happens before I guess get the feeling he's just a embedded mole that's there watching through this thing in case anything happens, right?

I mean, maybe he's there to sabotage it in the first place. But also, like, another follow-up question for you. Does Saffin really want anything to do with James Bond? No, it's weird to have... It's so impersonal, in fact, they don't even have a scene together until they're very end fight.

Right. They have the one where he comes in and they sit together. Yeah. Yeah, they have very little screen time together and very little. personal and it's it's ironic that he's undone by a villain that has so little to do with him right and also like i couldn't tell was he undone i mean he seemed oh well he was undone ultimately by

the bullets that he put in i'm sure yeah if that's what you mean i thought you were talking about being mentally undone um i yeah go ahead let's let's continue with the plot because we're never going to get to the bottom of it because i actually think it it isn't a strong or clear plot. Because these are nanobots, which I wish they would have just made it a virus. Like it, because it also gets a little science fictiony,

but it is what it is. As Covey Broccoli said during the making of Moonwraker, we're not science fiction. We're science fact. Yeah. Tell it to the invisible Austin Martin. Oh, Covey. So they get

Valdo from Cuba and then they get on that boat and that's when Logan Ash betrays and shoots Felix. Yes, because he gets the information that he needs, which is where is the doctor that I just accidentally let go? Like, it's just like, whatever, okay. Presumably, though, it's confusing. I mean, it is like Skyfall. You shouldn't think too hard about. Right, because once you do... and effect is flawed. Yes. And that's fine. That's fine. I think there were just some other things like,

there were some things that aren't plot holes, but that just aren't clear because the script probably got doctored so much. Like, what the fuck was the water with all the like nuclear core lights that also's acid? And if they were sent there in the end to kill Valdo, because they specifically say that, like eliminate him. Why are they dragging him around for a while before she finally, Nomi finally kicks him into that water with a one-liner that is pretty ham-handed.

None of the one-liners are good in this. Not really, no. I'm trying to think. I mean, the Book of Mormon is good. Yeah. But what is that water? What's it for? Why don't they just kill him immediately because they've set that up that they need to?

Also, by the way, the danger of that water seems to surprise everyone working in it. I know. Yeah. And they all run. The second this happens, they're like, oh shit, we don't even know what this water does. Yeah. And it's also unclear as to what either Specter or Saffin, they keep saying like this generic thing of like, yeah, you can kill world leaders or thinkers or it's just, it really could have used a plot pass on the screenplay. And I think you could have actually simplified it so much more and made it less complicated because this movie is ultimately about.

relationships and character, which was so strong in this movie for my part, I thought that it gave finally great weight and substance to Madeline and Bond that specter didn't have. They rushed her saying, I love you in that movie. And now, you know, I think maybe your mileage will vary on this. For me, it really worked. I really felt because the acting was so good. I thought Leisadu was the MVP of this movie. She's so good in this movie. Yeah. Absolutely. She was like, every, nuance and everything that she was doing in the movie, they felt like there were layers to it, which often you don't get in a,

in a Bond movie, you sort of get like, okay, so in this scene I'm sad, I'll play sad. But like in this scene, I'm sad, but I'm also angry and hurt.

Like, all of it was there. And which is also, I think, a credit to her as to why I didn't notice, or I didn't think anything in the, beginning of the movie other than like she was felt guilty for betraying bond and she didn't betray bond but like that's what I saw but I think she feels responsible for whatever's happening but

then by the time that opening sequence ends with her depositing her on a train in in that same like equal parts hurt and equal parts rage bond has of like I can't kill you because I love you right should kill you because I think you've done the worst thing you could do to me yeah That was just such a strong kickoff for this movie. And then from where that goes point A to point Z with the final discussion they have over the calm as he's about to die. Yeah. I just thought really, really good, really powerful.

I can't wait to see it again. I don't even I'll ever see a movie again. Well, you're going to do a lot of seeing movies on your computer. Well, we've already done that. We watched Halloween the new one. Oh, yeah, Halloween kills? Is that what it's called? the last one to get ready for that.

And we must have had to pause 18 times. And we have to watch everything on a volume level that only a dog could hear with captions on. You gotta get the... I saw these things advertised. Sony has these little neck speakers. Oh my God. That like you just wear like a collar

and it just sends the sound to you. So you can watch it a volume where it's not going to bother anybody else around you. That's hilarious. It's very stupid, but seemingly would work out just fine. But let me tell you, as soon as you get that sound machine going, you know, the white noise machine in your baby's room, I would not be, I would say, don't worry about what volume. You cannot have it too loud. Seems like it.

Yeah, the baby does sleep through a lot. And it's like, that kid's not going to care. Because, like, Henry doesn't give a shit. Like, if I'm watching something at, like, 9 p.m. that is very loud. His room is almost next to a speaker. and he's like, he never wakes up. Our daughter sleeps inside a big cabinet speaker. Oh, that's very cool.

Is it something about like the vibrations of the... Yeah, we put the woofer facing up, so we just cradles her and she just... Boom, boom, boom. Someone needs... Do you, like, put on various... You know, when you want to, like, get her to sleep, do you just put on some yodeling?

A nice soft yodel. I put on the soundtrack from... Golden Eye. Oh. I popped in, I popped in live and let die the other day. The soundtrack

like on a record. Oh, and I put it on because Henry sometimes he wants to, he wants to put a record on sometimes. And I was like, and I pulled out two and I was like,

which one do you want? And he wanted the live and let die as opposed to mutations by Beck. So I was like, all right. Smart choice. I was like, let's put it on and we put it on.

And he listens to it for half a minute, but I get to keep it on the rest of the time. So on that note, I was making dinner and I thought, I'm going to put on the score on headphones to no time to die because I, you know, was really dubious about Hans Zimmer going into this. He did great. And I loved it too. I know it's real on the nose,

but at times you really want that, especially when you've had two Thomas Newman's that were so, you know, on purpose off the nose, for lack of a better term. I just, I don't care. I loved the nods. to not just all the time in the world, but the Honor Majesty Secret Service score. I was hearing notes of Casino Real.

I heard a little before you guys only. You get Vespers theme at the grave. Yeah. That plays. Like all the time in the world touches were just beautiful. The fact that they just fucking rolled that song at the end. I know. I was just like, okay.

And they're weaving in no time to die. The Billy Elish tune into the score. And listening to it isolated, you get it a lot more than you think you do. That is my blind spot for the movie. I cannot, I could not, that was the, by the way, I will say this. The opening credit sequence was the first time I heard the song. Yeah, it doesn't have a.

It doesn't have a hook in my head. And I couldn't tell you what that song is. I didn't dislike it. No, it's right in line, but it's nothing, it doesn't ever shoot above its weight, unfortunately. Well, but like the Sam Smith one, which I didn't care for, I can hear it in my head. Yeah. And, you know, going back, I can hear them in my head. But the Billy Elish one, I cannot.

I couldn't. It's because the melodies sound like a bond chord progression, not a bond melody. Yeah. It's like you could actually write a song on top of that and let the melody that currently exists be like a counterpoint to a higher melody or something. But what do you think of the opening titles? They threw a lot at the screen. Yeah.

And it was kind of, I liked all the nods to the Craig era. I liked that, but it was not as memorable as other title sequences have been. I agree. I mean, it was interesting that you had the Dr. No dots and then the primary colors, but then you're getting into the, like, the Walter P.PK DNA sequence was awesome. Sure. Like firing thing. But then it kind of relies heavily on the Triton and the Omega sign, which is such a

minuscule thing in this movie and the statues. And I had read with Kleinman that he had to work on this from earlier versions of the script and a lot of changed. And it seems clear that there's some like vestiges of things that meant more at an earlier date or something.

It felt like they were going to do something with the quote unquote smart blood. Yeah, other than track them. Which they never did. Other than track them like like where maybe Q had like programmed the smart blood to fight the nanobots or something I thought that Q was going to hack it. And then like, you know, and then you zoom in and you're watching a little nanobot

fight a smart blood. But they're in a tuxedo and a tunic, a Nehru tunic. I, okay, so set piecewise, okay, we got to Cuba. We got to the Felix's death. I thought was impactful. I wish Felix had more to do. Yeah. As is always the case with Jeffrey Wright.

I always want him to have more to do. Like I wish that we got a scene in the in the run of it. Not that Felix ever really has anything huge to do. Yeah. By the way, how much did you expect that boat that showed up to have quarrel on it? Oh, man. Wow.

I really thought that's what they were going to do. And coral Jr. Yeah. It was just like, I was just like, this is great. They're going to quarrel? This is really Dr. Nowing it up.

Quarle. Also, did you feel like when, Felix died and was floating that just compositionally, it was shot like Vesper floating away. Absolutely. And I think that was obviously purposeful to evoke the effect that that had on James, I think. Yeah, and Kerry Fukenaga's favorite Bond film is Casino Real. Oh, he's not wrong.

He's not wrong. He's very right. What are you going to do? He's pretty much on par with correct. Best piece of art. I don't think there's ever been anything better. No. Mona Lisa, there's a reason you're not actually smiling because you're not Casino Royale.

Had she seen Casino Royale, that would have been a full-blown grin. Yeah. If Venus de Milo had arms, she would use them to sign in American Sign Language, I am second to Casino Royale. The statue of David and his little contrapastro pose and rubbed down toe is just a little pose for him to say, I can't walk anymore. I'm not Casino Royale. If only my father had not been Michelangelo,

but Neil Purvis and Robert Wade. The two architects of art. The architects of all our joy. I, um, okay. So, yes, so the Felix, okay, that, very impactful for Bond and then he returns to London. after like i thought that that that jump from like i'm on this little i did laugh very hard at the dingy scene where he's like literally just sitting on that dingy and all he has is this like he had

the cigar or what did he have with him yeah because is the is the what's he taking from there the code yeah whatever it was i don't know it's what uh anna da armas gave to him to give to yes fuck i don't know oh yeah it was the u. USB drive. Yeah. But like, I laughed really hard at that because I was like, this is classic. This is Daniel Craig. It's him in a dingy holding a USB stick, whereas all the other bonds are in a dingy

with a beautiful woman having just saved the day and don't have to work for a couple weeks. Yeah. Right. And then he just like a tanker comes up and then it jumped cut. I was like, oh my God, did they miss a reel? Because it jump cuts to London. No, I think that was the thing with this movie.

There was like a lot of economy with the editing and it's already long as it is. So they took a lot of liberties with just knowing that you'd be along with it. I guess you, I am a lot of the time along with it. But James Bond is supposed to be a travel log. Like I don't mind seeing that guy get on an airplane. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like just the idea of like how did he get to London?

It must have been very luxurious. you know what I'm saying? He floated straight into the Thames. It took a while. He gets to London. He gets the Ashton Martin from Living Daylights. From, sorry. Honor Majesty's.

No, it's the 80s one. Oh, it is. Okay, it is Living Daylights. I get confused by those two. So it's the V8. Yes. Which I thought was a Volante. Yeah, it was an interesting choice for that one

and not the one from Honor Majesty. But anyway, I'm not wrong, right? I'm not crazy. Crazy what? Like, that is the Asin Martin from Living Daylights. Yeah. And not the one from Honor Majesty. I don't know.

I get them mixed up. You know me. I'm not a car guy. That's true. Okay, so I love the scenes at MI6. I love when MoneyPenny's like, sorry, only bond in the office. Yeah. That whole run of those two competing with each other is very funny.

The line, as the desk gotten bigger, have you gotten smaller? I was like, this is all very good. Very good, James Bonding. Dale Craig had so many more lines in this movie. I know. And he's really contentious with Mallory M. more than any other M. I know Judy Dench and Bond, like they had a kind of philosophical,

disagreement, but this M and Bond are like sniping at each other. They're brutal. Yes. Yes, but I think the beauty of it, I thought, was that he the M had so disappointed Bond. Yeah.

By going forward with this stupid weapon. Yeah. That obviously was going to get stolen. Yeah. This is why I can't wait to see it again. to let some of this stuff sink in. Bond, I love when Am takes the phone call and he walks over and he's standing in front of an Aston Martin Valhalla. Yeah.

Which is like the fifth Aston Martin in this movie. It's like the most insane thousand power hybrid. It's a thousand horsepower hybrid V6. I don't know. Like, what is that doing there? Is that that, that's the next double O, whatever. In a wind tunnel. In a wind tunnel.

That's where I would take all my phone calls if I had a wind tunnel. Yeah, me too. And I'd be like, sorry, I'm driving. I got to go. Losing you. Okay, so that all sets up the, wait, when does he then, okay, oh, right. He then goes to see Blofeld. Blofeld has the answers.

Yeah. So him and my favorite character, Tanner. Barely in this, movie. Barely in this, but has some good moments. Yeah. Go to interrogate. He'll only talk to his therapist. Of course his therapist is Madeline Swan.

Yeah. All right. I buy it. She's a psychologist. It's there. Yeah. No. I mean,

and it makes sense that he's like, I'll only talk to Mr. White's daughter as a therapist. Like, if that's an option for me, that's who I'll talk to, but that's it. Yep.

And the fact that she's like willing to see him is funny to me also. Whatever. So, but prior to that, we get that scene between Madeline and saffan. Safan?

Yeah. Okay. We get that scene. Lucifer Safen. Ah, there you go. Thank you. Lucifer Satan. So on a nose.

It's ridiculous. But anyway. Also, by the way, he must have a bulletproof vest on, right? That's why he survives getting shot. In the beginning, that gun unloaded on her, him. I believe that's the case. Yeah. All right.

Because there was a lot of talk in the, his, you know, The bullet hole was here and he was survived. So everyone was like, oh, his heart's on the other side, just like Dr. No's character of Dr. No in the books. Plus, yeah, that mask is the theater of No mask. Yeah. Yeah. But it turns out, no, we're all sad about it. The other reason in that scene that I didn't feel like he should care so much about this connection with Swan and she him is because it seems like she didn't even recognize him.

So it's not like he played a part. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Which, you know, it's like, okay, well, that's why I asked you the question. He didn't take the mask off, right? At the beginning. No, he didn't. No.

So she doesn't know it's him until he says it or at least she gets in. Or hands are the Tamaguchi box. Yeah. Kamagachi. Fants with the upper mask, yeah. At which point, it's like, I don't know. The leverage-wise, it's like, well, what do you really, you're threatening my daughter. that's some good leverage

yes I know but like I also am like pretty good friends with MI6 let's like go throw her in protection somewhere like put her in the cell next to Blowfield to protect her while we deal with Safin do you know what I mean

yeah we're just like okay okay well that's not how the story goes obviously we need a plot so she decides okay I'm very worried here ultimately I'm going to try to do my best to put this perfume on and go kill me some blow felt yeah and then she doesn't she she she thinks twice about it which I thought was interesting and she ultimately leaves so she does ultimately go I can't do it yeah I'm out which then then I'm like well now go go find your daughter and take her someplace safe

which she thinks she does, even though you just met the guy that came there to kill you, who obviously knows that place is sitting there. Yeah, just because you remodeled the inside of it, isn't going to... It's not going to help you. Just because you have a land cruiser that can outdual every rangerover under the sun. Well, she's like, that lake isn't frozen over. I'll just swim away.

If I fall in now, it'll just be refreshing. So, okay, so that contrivacy... see Bond ends up killing Blofeld accidentally. Very funny. The next scene, like, I thought they were going to, like, he was going to be in a little shitload of trouble for that. No. He's just sitting in MI6 in Q's lab and they're just wiping him off.

Yeah, I like that scene too because you don't know, you don't know if it's going to happen or not because they just show her kind of rough, like that they've held hands and you don't know how efficient this thing is. and it's kind of a fun tension in that scene. Yeah. Yeah. And also, like, I liked the quick thing between Tanner and Bond in that scene after Tanner runs in to stop him.

And Bond's like, I know, I know, I know the first rule. And they're just having that back and forth. And then they both look and they go, oh, fuck, he's dead. Yeah. I also love that Bond was going to choke him because that's kind of from the novel of You Only Lips Twice. That's how Bond kills Blofeld. He just chokes him.

Also, you've got the Garden of Death in this, too. Yes. They don't really use. I thought for sure that was how Safen was going to die by poison flour. Though I loved how he killed Safen because at this point, he's so despondent that he doesn't even look at him and he just shoots him to the side. It's just such an afterthought of killing this guy that it was so underplayed that I really love that.

I agree. I agree wholeheartedly. I think that that moment of, uh, he's just, yeah, he's looking in a completely different direction. Just boom,

last couple of rounds. But that whole scene, okay, let's first very quickly talk about the scene in Norway, or in the Faroe Islands. Yeah. Which I thought was the most beautifully shot part of the movie. Yeah,

it was pretty great. The, the use of the forest and the fog. and the use of the drone cameras, like the direct overhead over the helicopter onto the, like, that all stuck with me. And I thought that was all great. Didn't, didn't love, but it will probably grow on me, James Bond's long tan coat. How did you feel about it? Well, it reminded me of Hans Solo and Endor. Okay. Yes, actually. That's 100% correct. Yeah. With the same like Henley top. Yeah, basically. Yeah. It was, that is so.

funny and accurate and I probably halfway partially inspired. That's interesting. And you've got Leia Sedu. Whoa. Whoa. And Matilda D2.

Matilda D2 middle name Falcon. Isn't that crazy? Matilda Falcon D2? Okay. But that scene and the come up in the fear eyes only kicking

the like getting rid of the tie situation. Yeah. But it was a tree. He dropped a rangeover on somebody. I love it. That guy also, by the way, Billy Magnuson, I love this actor. He just posted he and Jimmy Simpson on his Instagram lip syncing to Super Ego's Bond, how British am I? Isn't that amazing? I was like, oh my God, finally crossed over into the real Bond world. That's so funny. But it was from like years ago, but he reposted it, just two of them in a car lip syncing it. It was like a dream country. Well, let's see if you can get him on the pot now. Okay.

All right. Let's dial that up. I want to ask him all about his character's motivations because I frankly don't know them. So now Madeline and Matilda are kidnapped. Yes. And Bond is not happy about it. No. And in the in the, in the, I'm least happy about this.

entire tenure of bond, this is the thing I'm angriest about right now, what just happened. And that's what it felt like to me. Yeah. And I loved it. I did too. And then it's like, I'm going to roll over to London. We're going to make this shit happen. Well, then you've got still a decent amount of time in this movie left, and all of it is

going to take place fittingly for the end of this Bond story at a villain's layer where global, like, domination is at stake and personal, higher stakes personally, for. for him. Oh my God. I have to say it's like the stakes of, I mean, it's so weird, right, to give James Bond something to care about besides Queen and Country. Like, but that's what Craig's been about this whole time. If anything, he's lacked that global scale thing. Well, that's true too. Yes, this was a, but this was a mustache twirling villain plan that I don't understand. I understand the implications of it. I didn't understand the motivation of it.

I guess what I don't understand. What is the ticking clock, right, of like, we're shipping out all of these nanobots? That's the ticking clock, right? No, I think the ticking clock was that they had limited amount of time that they could do something about it because of an international incident, I guess. And he had to get these blast doors open for these cruise missiles to hit. Sure.

That ticking clock part I get. But the question I have is why did it happen, why did the missile strike have to happen in the next four minutes? Why couldn't it happen after you've cleared the lair, right? Even though, you know, the blast doors get closed by Safin, you theoretically have cleared the layer. Wasn't it, am I remembering this wrong, that there was like a threat from other countries like Russia was going to engage if they didn't get out of there or something? because they were in Russian waters. Right. They're going to engage if they don't get out of there,

but they're also going to engage if you launch missiles, right? Do you know what I'm saying? It's like, I know. I don't know what I couldn't. The end game of it all is like, why don't we just skedaddle

and we'll come back later? Yeah. I don't know. I mean, again, it's like you can't parse these things too heavily because you find that stuff. But also, ultimately what's his plan, though? You know, usually it's like,

Oric Goldfinger's plan is, I want more gold. Great. you love gold and that's your thing. Yeah, this was the big problem. Once he got his revenge, it didn't, he did not read as a, even his character as portrayed did not read as someone that would just want to kill a bunch of people. Right.

It didn't make sense because he also had sympathy for Madeline as a girl. There was like some humanity to him, so I didn't get why he cared to see this through. I get why Blofeld wanted this weapon. I didn't get why Safen wanted this weapon. Blofeld seemingly wanted this weapon only to kill James Bond at a party. You know what I mean? But like also, okay, you're Blowfeld.

At his birthday party. I mean, what better present do you get? Your birthday. Your birthday. It's true. James Bond dies. Do you imagine which one of his specter cronies like delivers him that and is, oh, I pleased daddy?

Got it. What do you get the man who hates everything? I got him the one thing no one ever could. We're all going to be able to see. it. But that bait and switch was Saffin set that up, right? Because he wanted Specter dead. Okay.

Which is cool. I like that. I get it. That's great. And then the next moment, which is like, I want Blowfield dead. Safen gets that. Blowfield's dead. So now theoretically, everyone is dead that he had a problem with.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, this is where it gets dicey because you don't understand why he's so intent on having Madeline and Matilda and why he cares about having this super weapon so much. He does say he wants to tidy up the world and stuff like there. The lines are there. It's just... Yeah, but like there's

you're not showing us any motivation that this guy is anything like about like genetic superiority or inferiority or anything like that. All you're telling us is he wants revenge for his father's death against these people. He already has received this now and we still have an hour

of the movie left. And the other thing you kind of of like glossing over is the fact that this era got Blowfeld and Specter back. And ultimately Blofeld was one of the most impotent villains in all, I would say in all of Craig's run, because even Dominic Green was kind of like purposefully impotent. He was supposed to just be so ordinary and under the radar where Blowfelt was supposed to be big and larger than life. And all his impact was so minor. It was all retroactive impact. Yeah, it was. And then in this, one, he's so undone by a lesser specter member. I mean, I liked the twist in this. Is he a member? Yeah. He wasn't he? No. Not that I remember. We're talking with Safen, right? Yeah, wasn't he in

Specter? No. I don't think so. I could be wrong. Because wouldn't he have been at the party? Maybe that's why he was so pissed. You couldn't get invited. I wasn't invited to this party. I've been in Spector now for 20 years trying to infiltrate this place to kill my dad and I don't get invited to this party. Are you kidding me? I paid for that eye. There was something vague about him wanting to carry on his father's legacy of a death garden. Yeah, the poison.

Because his family was like poison mongers. Yes, of course, that thing that everyone knows about poison mongering. So then when they finally get to this layer, And we've got another island layer kind of like skyfall, but this one looked amazing. Beautiful. It's just, it got into kind of generic video game action for me where there was so much shooting of faceless soldiers and John Wick-esque fighting and killing that this action did lose me a little bit because you're kind of like the moments of character became fewer and farther between

and even then it was between Saffelin and Saffin and Madeline and Matilda. And I didn't understand what his investment in this was. so it left me a little wanting. Then you get to the final development between Saf and Bond and the virus. I just want to say that any time our heroes

are shooting submachine guns around corners, I'm out on a movie. It's just like, what are you doing? Everyone's like, it's just hands. It's just hand puppet theater.

It's just hands peeking out from a wall. And it was just a lot. And it was a lot of it. Where I'd rather have everyone just gets pistols and that's it. We're all using pistols

and we all got to point our gun look down the barrel. Yeah, like all you really needed was a couple of those guys killed his fight with Primo, which with the EMP was amazing. Yeah. And then get to Safen because that was,

that's when it got interesting again. And that's where you get to the big finale and the big twist. The twist, of course, being that James Bond has been infected with Robits. And that he's going to do. He's not going to make it. Well, he chooses not to make it.

I don't know. If you ask me. They show him dripping blood like profusely. Yes, he's losing a lot of blood. We've already, we've already set up in the movie that if you lose a lot of blood, you're probably going to die. We get it. They already set that up in the first act with Felix.

I don't know. It's just interesting. Like, what did you think? I think I just couldn't, I could see where they were going, but I didn't think it was going to happen until the second those missiles hit off. And I was like, wow, they really did it. And then all I could think about through the next two little epilogue scenes was, are we going to see James Bond returns? Are we going to see 007 returns? Or what are we going to see? Right. Right. Right. I stayed. Especially in the context of this movie. Yeah. And boy, they really make you wait. Oh my God. The literal end of the movie. Not even. Like, this is post.

Thank you to the Toronto film board. Yeah, post like Panavision logos and IMAX logos. I was seriously waiting for a post credit sequence. In a way, I was too, yeah. But were you expecting, like, him to be, like, a hand come up from the water or something? No, something. Like a, like an epilogue, maybe like of a grown Matilda. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Like, not as James Bond, but like as. growing up Matilda who like, I don't know, I was like recruited by MI6 or something like that. Even that I would have been like, oh, interesting. Yeah. James Bond, Jr. I'm just really curious to watch all five of these together

because I didn't rewatch them in a row leaning up. I don't know that it would help you. I'm just curious. I'm curious to what it would do. I think Spector might be now. This Spector, I think, is going to have the quantum effect. I agree. where you're just going to back to back it

And it's just going to make Specter better Yes Casino Rail makes Quantum better Yeah And then you've got like Skyfall in the middle Which stands on its own So you actually kind of have three movies in this series Yes

And it's clear in the second one Meaning in Skyfall that they Did not intend to connect the rest of them At all None of these were These were all developed one movie at a time As much as I don't even think the filmmaker

You're trying to convince anyone that anyone had a grand plan. It is absolutely not the case. Can you help me work it out in my head? They have to recast everybody, right? Next go around? Yeah, this is not. They're not going to. If they do, they'll do what they do with Judy Dench and just have Mallory be the holdover?

Yeah, but it won't be like the same timeline or. Well, that's the thing where I'm like, where I just was like, my brain cracked open when I saw the other M's. Because I just was like, but it's not the first time because like Bernard Lee, there's been a painting of Bernard Lee in Judy Dench's office before. Okay. And like I feel like in,

in Golden Eye or Tomorrow Ever Dies, one of those movies I feel or I imagined it and dreamt it. I don't know. But like for some reason that never, that I was like okay with because in the, in the bond sort of, uh, through line of like,

I'm the new M, I'm Judy Dench, you're a misogynist, you're a dinosaur, blah, blah, blah. But then where they made the mistake was bringing Judy Dench into Casino Reil. Like, if they had just recast M,

my brain would be fine. It's not a mistake. You have to let that go because it's the same shit as Laysenby being the same bond as Sean Connery. It just... But like, it fits.

That fits more. That fits so much more. But it, doesn't have to fit. It's just saying, hey, we like this M. Here's another world where this M lived in this universe. But also it got bookended too by Sean Connery anyway. I know. Because like I think in this world, Bernard Lee's M existed but never had Bond as a double O. You know, he just worked in the 50s and the 60s. This is you helping my brain. And Robert Brown in the 80s, you know, maybe Mallory served under them or something or who knows. That's interesting. Okay. They had

007s, but they weren't James Bond necessarily or something, yeah. My fear, I guess, my greatest fear is that they're gonna, at some point, retcon this to make the fucking fan theory of James Bond as a code name be real.

And I... I think they're too soon for that. Well, also, I think they sort of kiboshed it where they were like in reference to 007. That and the grave in Skyfall, too, where it says,

Bond. But also look at the grave and for your eyes only. It says Tracy Bond. So this character, this James Bond never had a Tracy. No. It's very interesting. But this James Bond is not

Roger Moore's James Bond, so why would he? But Laysby's and Connery and Roger Moore had a Tracy. Yeah, they were all the same man. And if I'm not if I'm not crazy, doesn't Timothy Dalton mention and being married?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. All bonds up to Craig are the same man. Okay. Okay. Okay.

That I can be more on board with. But that was never in dispute. That is, that's okay. Yeah. And Broz's in my head. Okay. You can make a case that maybe Brazzan is a soft reboot kind of,

but not really. So, yeah, okay. Yeah, and like the Desmond Llewelland of it all, too. You just, You're thinking too literally. I know. I know, Matt. And it's like very hard.

That's the part of my, that's where I'm like, my heart is great. My brain is not. Yeah. Where I just get into like this whole sort of thing of canon and not canon. And like, canonically, I never thought I'd see James Bond die. Well, because canon doesn't exist in Bond the same way it does, especially in a superhero franchise because comic books are so in and out of canon themselves. but because these movies began in a time when there was no internet, no home viewing of these movies,

the holdover of details was not important. And I think they just have kept up that tradition, almost as it like we reserve the right to do this, even though the time doesn't serve that type of filmmaking anymore. They still do it. I love it. I love that they do it because that allows them to pick and choose the best parts, bring them forward with a fresh start and clean slate. and you just kind of have to let go.

That said, I think they do have to go clean, fully clean, yeah, I agree. I don't see, well, I mean, I think they're setting themselves up for that. Which I think is a bummer. Because of like Ben Wishaw really as Q is delightful. But they can still have him. It's just they're wiping clean the timeline. You can still have all those MI6 people.

You can just do it. But that's what I, that's, I guess you can. Yeah, I suppose you can. I mean, they've done it. It's, it's precedent. You can do it. But they've done it, Matt. They've done it.

Let me just say this. They've done it without ending a movie on the death of the character. That's where, like, if he didn't die at the end of this, and it was just suddenly like he had a wife and a daughter who he could never see her touch. That would just add a layer of cold to the character. And if Dale Craig doesn't die, You recast James Bond on the next one with everybody the same, and it all works in my brain, no problems. It's not too far off from the fact that Judy Dench and Casino Royale has given Bond his double-o status. So that doesn't make sense for Judy Denton on top of Brossens.

You're obviously familiar with my theory, which is the Matt Meyer timeline of James Bond movies, Casino Royale, Quantum of Salas, Dr. No, 3.5. Rue die another day. Yeah. And you pick it up at Skyfall, Spector, and then this one. So then how does Judy Dench have a painting of Bernard Lee in her office? In the time of Golden Eye? It's post, you know, it's posts all of these adventures anyway. Okay.

You know what I'm saying? All right. Yeah. It just to me, it's like the character went through all this. stuff and it's bookended by Daniel Craig in a weird way. In my mind, it's like Daniel Craig started as James Bond and ended as James Bond now that he's died. And the middle where all these adventures he went on. Yeah, it works. It makes a hell of a lot more sense out of Skyfall. If you do it that way, I don't. It'd be fun to watch it that way sometime. I can't even.

If we ever do the movies again for James Bond, that's how we should watch it. Yeah. The Madmeyer canon order. I love it. Absolutely. But so you don't have any, um, like cognitive dissonance with the times. Time jumps. No.

No. Of the 60s and 70s. The 60s. No. Not even a little bit because it's just like, well, it's also what they did in that 007 Legends video game. Oh, so that's justifying. No, no.

I'm not saying, but like that, that video game kind of worked like my brain did where it, was at the beginning of skyfall, Bonn gets shot. He starts falling off of that bridge and his life flashes before his eyes. So what happens in the video game is, it's Daniel Craig in Goldfinger, it's Daniel Craig in Moonraker and so on and so forth. And in my mind, I was like, yes, that's exactly right. That is the 007 Legends. Not a great game, but like, I was like, that's how it is in my head.

You know, all those, the one thing I love it about Daniel Craig dying is it finally put shut up all those people that insists that Sean Connery and the rock is James Bond because he never would have lived to do that. But that James Bond was, right? Like you're saying, like you're trying to If we're taking your time. Oh, taking my canon, no, I'm sorry. It just doesn't happen that way, guys. I'm sorry. Sean Connery is not James Bond. But if we take the canon as given to us by a family that introduced broccoli to this country, then I, again, I guess. guess that would work. Listen, let's do final thoughts because I hear a baby crying in the outside of my room.

That's just my heart. I think we should, when we see this movie again, we'll revisit. Reconvene. Yeah, discussion about it. I like it. Okay, so final thoughts. This movie is obviously worth seeing. And I think better than some of the Craig Bonds.

and not as good as one or two of them. But it is something that certainly needs repeat viewing because there's some things that need clarification. Yeah, I agree. And I left the theater satisfied with a hole in my heart. Me too, and I think that was its intention. And I went into this movie saying, here, I did not do the thing where I went in going,

here are the things I want from this movie. I went into this movie saying, give me what you want to give me. And boy, did that make all the difference. Where I think for Skyfall, I did the opposite. And that's why initially I was a little disappointed. Interesting. We'll see.

And I can't wait to see it again. I can't wait to see it with Amanda because also I'm so worried about these spoilers getting out. And she's not going to be able to see it anytime. And she's really looking forward to seeing it. Yeah, Dory was like, well, what happened? Tell me. And it's like, I'm not going to spoil the movie for you. No, you've already said, I think the first date, you know, like at a month.

Yeah. We're going to go to dinner and see this. That's going to be a magical time for you guys. I'm really jealous of it. But yeah, I think it's going to be interesting. Yep. I think James Bond is, you know, I thought of a character that could never be killed. But then I was in a theater and I watched them kill the character.

And I was just like, okay. I loved it. It was so weird. The more I think of it. It was such a weird reaction to have. I know, me too. And the more I think of it, I keep coming back to like, it's one. one out of 25 versions of a story with this guy.

Sure. Why aren't we, they should be taking more swings. But I'm like not even mad at it like I, like when they, when they killed Han Solo, I was just like, really?

You brought him back just to do that? Yeah, because that was kind of cynical. That, that feeling I had, did not have at all with this. No. It was very,

it was interesting. I was sad. I felt like I lost a buddy. I had a sadness for, the loss of the character. Yeah. And the end of an era. Like I was actually just as equally sad for the end of the Daniel Craig era.

Because also it's just been such a significant era of my life. You know, we've talked about 1990 high five, even though that was 2005 and six. Right. Well, it's also like, I just want, you kind of, you kind of want the character of James Bond to triumphantly go off into the sunset at the end. And in a way his legacy does, you know, where it's like Madeline and Matilda,

he finally got over Vespa and he now has this daughter out there. It just, it just, it was interesting. That character can never catch a break. Yeah. James Bond. Daniel Craig's James Bond

does not catch a break. Every other James Bond caught every break. And the next one will probably in some way, too. Or I do something differently, but I can't see it. That is the best way to summarize. So we'll be back again at some point. That's right, aka James Bonding will return. Matt and, Matt and, James Bonding podcast.