James Bonding - SPECTRE #2 with Paul Scheer

Episode Date: May 17, 2023

The Matts are back to talk more about SPECTRE with Paul Scheer! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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I feel weird with that our, we're on different turf here. That's right, we're here at the Earwolf Studios. In our last official episode of the run of James Bonning, we'll be back for. or whatever, whatever the bond signal goes up in the sky. Yeah, we'll be needed. But this is the last of the official run, and we're very glad to have Paul Shear here. Paul, welcome back to our program.

I am so excited to be here to talk about this movie. We had planned to talk about this movie. Long ago. Long ago, I had even bought tickets for us to all go see it, and then I was pulled to New York or something, and I could not see it with you guys, but I had seen it now twice. I've seen it three times.

Four times. Okay, not back. Not bad. Well, I'm very excited to talk to you guys about this movie because I feel like now with some time past, I've heard the James Bonding where you guys first came on. The initial reactions, the pre-going, the pre-going again. Yeah, so I feel like I've lived with you guys. Yeah, we've really had a, we've really milked to this for all its worst. Yeah, four times, what I should say, I fell asleep in one of them.

Because I was at the I pick where they give you a pillow and I'm blanket. The I pick makes you tired. And fried food. And a cocktail. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I fall asleep a lot at the I pick. It's the best, most expensive nap you'll ever take.

It's ridiculous. But I love it. You shouldn't watch movies there. You shouldn't be there to watch movies. I go there exclusively now to nap and to watch movies. Oh, it's ridiculous because they put you in the most comfortable chairs and they give you blankets. They know what's happening. The I pick to me is the best theater of all time.

As a parent now, it's amazing because you can't often do like dinner and a movie. Here you can do everything. There's a bar. There's dinner. It's rushing if you try to make a dinner. Exactly. And the food there is pretty good. They have artisan pizzas.

But, yeah, the side effect is that my wife has never made it through an entire movie. Never. It's also all the food is finger food because they don't want you planking forks and knives against the plate. Which is so much better than what the draft house does. When they serve those little nachos, it's great because each nacho is perfectly bite-sized and it's all, everything that's on it that you need it. You don't need to futz around there. really have nailed how to nap in a movie. Well, that's the Spectre cast, guys.

Thanks for you so much for joining us. We'll see you at the I-Pick. Hey, before we even begin, Matt, I have a surprise for you. Oh, you do. I have a little Christmas present. What? That's right. Now, a wonderful, wonderful listener of this program, Kyle Steed, did some amazing artwork.

Okay. And this came in a while ago. That's how long it's been since we've done an episode. So I took it. Yeah. I got it printed up. Oh, my God. And framed.

Oh, my. And when this comes out, check my Instagram, Mac Gorman, and you'll be able to see what Kyle Steed has done. It's incredible. I am looking forward to seeing this right now. It is a poster for James Bonding with you and me painted in like the most classy professional manner, but it's also rife with inside jokes from the podcast.

Pigeon double take. Cananga balloon. I've got a Starbucks Valencia orange refresher martini. You've got a straight up Vesper. Yes. Your watch. Oh, my God. Now, my only question is I'm looking at this painting and I, our picture, I love it.

It's amazing. Is that supposed to be Katie as Money Penny? I believe so. I love it. There's also a shammie leather holster in the drawer there, our little book of notes. Oh, my God. That is beautiful. It's awesome.

And I forever now will picture the two of you being dressed like that in a room like that recording a podcast. Yeah. Oh, if we ever. The quilted door, which I bowed a half on my office door. Oh, my God. Very Christmas. It is a beautiful. Beautiful, beautiful piece.

Who made that again? Kyle Steed. There's Tabasco. That's right. Yes. Kyle Steed sounds like a character that you might run into in a James Bond movie. You have to talk to Kyle Steed. Wow.

That's awesome. That's awesome. Thank you very much. Matt, thank you. Paul. I didn't do anything. You didn't get me anything. But just appreciated it.

Yeah, so we're here to talk about Spector. We're giving us the full James Bonding treatment because we've all seen it now a bunch of times. Remember how much skyfall resonated when it came out? No one's talking about Spector. No one's talking about Spector. No. No one likes Specter. I feel like the vast majority of people that I have talked to.

I'd say mixed reviews. It is, well, very mixed. As I said earlier, 64% on Rotten Tomatoes. Yeah. As opposed to 93% for Skyfall. I will say that I fall in the 63% camp because it's weird. It's a movie, in my opinion, that when you watch it the first time, I left the theater being psyched and fulfilled.

And then it just starts to eat away at you things. And I'm like, oh, oh, oh. And then you're left for me where I go, I really fluctuate. I go, I don't know if I liked it. That's what happened to me with Skyfall. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Okay.

See, and I go back and forth because then I'll be like, well, that was really good. I don't know about that. And I want it. And this is to me like a fan boy moment to be able to do. discuss this movie with you guys because it's a way I always want to discuss a film, but you can't have a forum to really get into it. Well, it's interesting. I think that a lot of people were reviewing this movie unfairly, and they were

in the sense that I feel like a lot of them were just trying to look at it as a movie. How do you? Hold on. Hold on. Hang on. Just hear me out, guys. It's not a movie. It's a James Bond movie.

That's the difference here. And I feel like you're going. to this movie expecting, if you're a fan of the franchise, you're expecting a certain something. And what you're expecting is for them to deliver the things you love about James Bond. And I think Spector, for the first time in a lot of the time, this is my argument with it. See, my argument is, it is all condiments and no meat. Like it is, to me, it's like, yes, they give you everything that you want to see,

which are, you know, these James Bond's trope. that we have not gotten, like, from the secret layer to, you know, Blowfeld and the Q stuff. There's a lot of very cool tips of the hat to what James Bond used to be. And I feel like that kind of like, it glosses over because it's like, oh, I'm so excited about blank, blank and blank. But then it doesn't connect as good as the other ones. And I feel like the series has been maturing past it with these like nods of, you know, like tip of the hat to all. all these James Bond things. So this is the issue that I have,

but my bigger issue is in the third act. Well, it's, okay. Third act is where my issues lie as well. Guys, we'll get to the third act when we get to the third act. Right now we're talking about the movie as a whole. I need to figure out, though, if it's, because before Spector came out, Matt and I sat down, we did a podcast where we discussed the things that we'd like to see from this movie. A hundred percent.

And I believe they ticked off nearly every box that we had. We wanted to have James Bond get some kids. gadgets. We wanted him to have a nice cold opening. We wanted him to go on a mission. We wanted him to not be sort of behind the eight ball on things. We wanted it to be more of a traditional James Bond movie. And I feel like this movie delivered all those things. Am I wrong? No, I agree with you. In fact, don't get me wrong. I like Skyfall. I think it's artfully done. It's done amazingly well. But there are huge plot fall is pretty. Huge plot holes in there. And now hear me out on this. So, I thought it also rode the line between kind of winking at Bond and still staying within that realistic version that Daniel Craig's franchise had set up.

And that's where I got at times a little bit like, wait, what are they doing here? Spector goes to the other side and commits, I think, to classic Bond. It felt like I was watching a Bond I had seen before, and I mean that in a good way. But then something I realized. There are some strange leaps in Spector, but they all make linear sense. to me, Skyfall's plan in Skyfall, when you go home and think about it, falls apart immediately. This movie somehow fixes Skyfall because it's Blowfeld behind Silva, which many people don't like, they think, oh, that's stupid.

He's been behind everything from the beginning. But if you put Blowfeld behind it and he's operating all the systems that unlock the doors when they're under the subway in London, suddenly I can start to believe Skyfall. Oh, interesting. So then you're saying it's not a lone hacker. who's managed to pre-program all these things to open and all the timing. And you've got Blowfeld behind it all. That makes a little bit more sense to me.

But it feels to me like retroactive writing. Oh, definitely. I mean, absolutely. You know, because it's like, yeah, because like we start off obviously going at Casino Real at that point they were not sure they could get the specter, right? Like they didn't get it. It feels like sometimes when they'd try to wrap up a rest of development, they'd go, well, this was this and this was this.

Huh? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. And so I felt like it kind of cheapened it. It was like, oh, wait, they're all connected. And then it felt smaller than, for me, it kind of had the opposite effect. It was like, oh, I just like, all right. Like, I felt like dirty.

Like, like, I thought that was so silly. I thought that was so silly to connect it. Yeah. You didn't need. Well, to me, to me, here's the perfect example of it, not to jump ahead. I'm not jumping ahead. Yep wherever you want. All right.

Well, we've all seen the movie. Everyone listening is seen the movie. My issue with it is, all right, so they do all that, too. like, you know, connect it. And then, like, at the end, when he's in, when he's in the old MI6 or, you know, the new MI6, like, they were basically like, who was the guy? That's exactly what I said to Matt. I was like, who got, who set up a fucking laser jet?

All right, put up the silver picture. You need me to get rid of the background of everybody's photo? Definitely that guy with the glasses and the bangs, you know, his little Butler guy. Yeah. Like, they're, I mean, and I'm all for a good bond, like a traditional bond. I love James Bond. And I, you know, I made the big jump in the iTunes world, and I bought the $99. Holy shit.

Because I was like, you know what? It's time. I feel like I'll get them all. They're great. And $99 for like, like, 18 of them. No, it's a good deal. It's a good deal. And then I can go back and watch them in the moments that I want to watch them.

Like, I even did a little experiment before Spectre came out where I experiment. They did a real experiment where I just like watched just the all. the cold opens, like back to back and back. Oh, very cool. Oh, that's awesome. And like, and it's easy to kind of just go like. You're getting us new ideas for new episodes. Yeah, that's a great idea.

Well, it's kind of fun because then you can kind of evaluate them in different ways. And like, and I listened to, uh, I had listened to something else. Oh, it was, uh, it was Edgar Wright made a list of his favorite James Bond movies in the order that he thought they should come out. And there was a Roger Moore one, uh, for your eyes only. Yep. Which I had not really visited. And so I went back and I saw it, but it felt too adult to me.

when I saw it as a kid, and then I kind of grew out of Roger Moore, and I kind of revisited Sean Connery. So I was like, I went back to kind of check up on that one. I fell in the octopusy camp of my James Bond world where it's sort of like, I know it exists. I've seen it. Yes. Maybe once, maybe twice, but I haven't taken it. Yeah, Octopsy for me is sort of the one that I revisit a lot.

I put that on a lot. That's an old coat. Yeah. I like to put on. And Fear Eyes only, honestly, that might be the James Bond movie I've seen the least. Well, mine's definitely tomorrow never dies. Well, yeah. I don't want to argue with you.

Yeah, the Pierce-Bross and ones, I don't know if I've seen those twice. I think, oh, here's the other thing, too. Under the grading system, we are grading specter of ticking all the boxes for James Bond movies. Tomorrow Never Dies hits them all as well. I've said this before. You see, and that's my issue with it. Yeah, oh, boy, you're about to win me over with what you're about to say. My theory is now flawed.

Well, because it is, it is checking boxes without. I think it's sort of like it just seems like a paint by numbers. Like, yeah, yeah, we got that. We got that. We got that. And it's like, and the whole movie feels jammed in. And if you look at these Sony hack emails now, it's interesting because some of the notes at the Sony hack emails released about the film, they're not scandalous. They're just notes.

And they're kind of good notes. No, they are. They're right. And it's like, oh, yeah, these are my issues with the movie. Expound on that because I still haven't. They're mostly to do with the third act. Okay. I mean, if we're not talking real first draft versions of the movie.

The John Logan version, I think, was basically, they're talking about after Purvis and Wade came on. And it sounds like they knew that the third act needed to be fixed. And it got fixed as much as it could. I think the story makes sense. But some of the choices, I think, aren't as good. But the first two-thirds of the movie, I think, is good. The only flaw I have with it is that the relationship between Madeline Swan and Bond is good. I think they made all the right choices, but I don't think they gave you enough in between.

And it's sort of my one complaint with the new Star Wars movie is you need moments for these big things that happen to resonate with the characters and for you as an audience member to take them in. I agree. Yeah. You're not wrong about that on the Star Wars end of things. Yeah, they don't give you enough time. Somebody said not to spoil anything for people out there who don't want to get spoiled for Star Wars. Like, is Star Wars the Force Awakens one story day? Like, I mean, like it seems like it.

It seems like it. It moves very quickly. Yeah. But this is where I will go back on my spectrum. I came down hard on it. Love the opening. I love Ray Fines in this movie. I think he's great.

A genius. I love how they bring in M. I love that thing. I love the Monica Balucci. I really am getting into it. I think where it started to go off the rails where things got wobbly. Well, this is one nitpicky thing. The mustache twirling kind of guy.

You know that that guy's a bad guy. Like from the Minidies and M.I. The guy from Sherlock. Yeah, like, you know, like, you're like, all right, like, they didn't even try to hide. Like, the man's eyes are, like, just trying to hide. They're like a shark's eyes or a doll's eyes. Just like Ella Cool J said in the Deep Blue Sea song, Shark Eye. Imagine if they cast that guy with a, like, classic, genial British.

Oh, I say, oh, it's so nice to meet you. And, you know, that would have been. Can I tell you my pitch for it? Yeah, I'm listening. And this would have re, again, tinkered with the Bond franchise. Getting the broccoli on the phone, if this is any. good. I'm going to put the call in. If it was Moneypenny who was betraying everybody and she was like I think that one step away from that because the guy in the bed, they never show the face. And I feel like

there are deleted scenes where she was sleeping with Denby. Because his voice sounds like his. They only show the back of his head. I just, oh, also when he gets when he gets busted by M, like M kind of gives him his first, like signal that he knows what he's up to, she follows M out, but she kind of pauses and gives him a dirty look. And that could be just, I don't like you, but it also felt like... Maybe I have a relationship. Something. I just wanted to be...

I think I wanted that to be a little bit more of a twist. I think as an audience member. And even like, Ray... Everyone seemed like they hate this guy. Like, whereas I think it would have been better to be like, oh, it's somebody inside. And if, if, uh, Blofeld had this many tentacles, you know, to really give you... It wouldn't be... It wouldn't be the person who's, like, the newly implanted person in the world.

It would be someone that you... You hadn't noticed. Well, I love that line in Quantum of Salas, where Judy Dej says, everyone says they have people everywhere, but you don't actually believe. Right. And they, they, what was I going to, God damn say? Oh, they seem to be banking on the twist coming from the fact that Franz Oberhauser is Blofeld. But that means nothing to anyone. That's like that fan service.

I understand that. I don't think it's as bad as the con fan service, because obviously it's for the fan service. because obviously it's for the fans. Yes, I get it. But it's not like... Don't get me started on that movie. Oh, yeah. But you're right.

It's like, because it's presented, like what they should have done is just thrown it away. Yeah. I'm on. My name is, you know, my name is, uh, Blofeld. Like, it shouldn't have been like, but it's like, ba-ba-ba-ba. It kind of is.

Right. It wasn't like, Bond doesn't react to it. Like, oh my God. That name means nothing to anyone. It was, but I thought in the context, he just said, oh, that's not my name. I hate my father. much I'm going with my mother's bloodline.

So at least they had a line to acknowledge it, which is more than you got for Khan. Right. Well, here's my question, too. And this is the thing that I go back to when I talk about this movie. Because this is where I go, 64% is about right for me because I'm like, oh, I like it. Oh, sometimes I don't. And it's wavering on certain moments because I do like all the boxes that they checked. To me, when he, when Bond sees Oberhauser in that meeting room, right, there's no,

like thought there. I don't read on his face like, oh shit, that's my brother. Like, you know, like, oh, I got that. Did you get that? Yeah, I mean, definitely get like something's affecting it. There's a slow pull and a wide, a wider-eyed Daniel Craig than we've ever seen before. Okay. Then I, then I felt like, all right.

That was my, my issue was like, I just felt like there was never this. I didn't, I felt like the connection between them never felt like, like the head to head should have felt like. should have felt like it just felt just separate. I agree with that. After that initial thing, and then when they meet, you do want Daniel Craig to have a little bit more like familiarity

with him or some history. I feel like overhauser. I think they're only their brothers for what two years. Do you know what I mean? Right. There's that. Also, here's a weird thing.

The timeline of this is all fucking weird. The 20 years? 20 years. And they show a picture of him and he looks like he's 17. Yes. Yeah, I agree with that. So what they're saying is how,

like they're saying James Bond is 37 years old. Yeah, about that. No, because they show he's a guardian. He gets guardianship when he's 12, but he was born in 68. Oh, I have a question about this, too, by the way. Yeah. Well, figure out the age first.

So that would put it. He's basically Daniel Craig's age, his bond is. According to, like, the records they show. As they do, as I showed you when I sent those. Like, the only way to justify that is they're showing an old picture of Franz Oberhauser when he died. But he would have had to have been about 30 when he died, but that picture he just doesn't look 30. No, but it all. It also doesn't make any sense that a 30-year-old would be so annoyed at this little kid.

Do you know what I mean? Well, but right. It doesn't make any sense. Yeah, you're a grown adult. What are you mad at? Yeah. And why would Bond wouldn't even be around anymore? You'd have been into the service.

Go ahead, Paul. Let me ask you guys this. Am I to believe that James Bond's parents were killed by an avalanche? And then James Bond's step parents were also killed by an avalanche? You're absolutely correct. That's lazy. guys that's lazy like that bums me out like

one of them's a natural avalanche and I can see from his overhouse are going I'm continuing the theme oh yeah I'm going to he was he's the author of his pain for a whole hip and and oh man

well and and to go to your point about checking off the boxes this is how I can this is the only way I can articulate why I don't like that boxes being checked up listening the chair at the end that he's in,

Bond is in, in the torture is obviously a nod to gold finger, right? Like, I mean, we're, like, we're putting him in that position and all that sort of stuff,

which is cool, like, oh, that's cool. That's like the new cool gold finger thing. But then when they get him in that chair, it's weird because then they stick him with these needles that don't seem to do anything to him at all. Yeah. So then you're saying,

well, James Bond's superhuman, but yet you set up very early on that he's got these nanobots. Why don't you just put a line in there like early on to be like oh and these nanobots will like kind of help you like if if you get like you know instead of just being a tracking device like let's like justify why he's not super here's what i think that's it into but you think that like a man getting this thing i i hate that you have to like parse this much but i think it's there in the movie because the first one is he's just drilling his tooth to hurt him okay the second one is if i find this nerve you'll forget her oh he says if i find it i can't i like oh okay i thought he was like I am getting that nerve. No, he said if I find it, it'll forget you won't remember anybody's faces.

And then the other thing is that like, you just have to, you just have to assume that he's going to keep going until he gets that nerve. Okay, all right. So that again, in my two viewings of it, I thought he was hitting those nerves and that he should have been blind. No, because that would have been bullshit. Okay, all right. So then why create that? Oh, that device.

Okay, but yeah. But I feel like those were, I don't know. You're kind of doing one thing that's a little bit like an homage, but then you're doing something else. It's like, I didn't, I didn't find, I didn't find that whole interaction between them at all fulfilling. Like, the moon rock, all that shit. Like, I was like, that's where it starts to fall apart a little bit. Yeah. And it's, and it's just sort of like, I want these guys to go head to head.

I like Silva when he went head to head with Bond. Yeah. And they're, you know, I just, I liked how he was brought in. And I liked the way that they kind of. But I think you will. This is obviously leading to something else. So it fell apart for me in the third act a little bit. But the final thing where he decides to go with Madeline Swan, I really like.

liked for a change on a bond film. I really liked it, too, because I think they clearly are setting it up to be on Her Majesty's Secret Service. Well, they'll either be married or together, and then Blofeld will kill her. Yeah. I like that a lot. You know, as I went on this podcast to talk about it on Her Majesty, so I'm all on board. Yeah.

Okay. So I think we should talk a little bit about the earlier part of the movie. Like, let's talk about the things that we all enjoyed. I think... Best Open, right? The Open was good. I like it more each time I see it, though. I just needed like an explosion in the background or something.

More of a button. We talked about this. But then the next few times I saw it, it worked better for me. I love it. I love it just because of the scope of it. I love like being like whatever, the March of the Day of the Day of the Day. I just love the visual of that one shot was so pretty. I had a hard time, the first time understanding why the whole building exploded when he shot in there.

It's not clear, but when you figure it out. Yeah. Then I'm like, all right, I buy it. But like, it is a little bit like, huh. I have a hard time. out how not everybody was killed when he blew up the building. Yeah.

Well, even that's their, like, they really do take their pains to make everything makes sense in this movie, which I think Skyfall doesn't have. So you see the guys, see the laser in the smoke. Yeah. And then,

uh, Bond shoots the, like the other assailants and then even looks, they show him, change his field of vision down to the suitcase. So he shoots the suit case. It blows up. But right before that,

you see Skiara run off a little bit. So I know it's like still a little, unbelievable, but they at least address it slightly. And I feel like that Sam Mendy's going, all right, I got to make sense of this on the day. Well, I think this is an old movie was made a little bit like that because I have a friend of a friend who is an editor. Inside information. And apparently Sam Mendes is a very collaborative director. So they had this giant roundtable with the script.

They said, okay, here's a couple things that we need to do. We need to go to snow. Their script was already done. How can we go to snow? because we've not been in snow for X amount of movies. We need to go to snow. World was not enough last movie. So, yeah.

So that was like, so that was, there were a couple mandates that they kind of had to hit. I also. Oh, die another day. Oh, shit. I've wiped that one from my brain. That's one with the Invisible Hotel or the Ice Hotel. That's the Ice Hotel. And the Invisible Asht Martin.

And then I was in Mexico shooting in that theater that blew up. And we had to, we had to be done at a certain time because, Bond was coming in to blow up that theater. Wait, theater, what do you mean? Well, that's the thing. It's, though they blew up, is a beautiful Broadway-esque theater. You don't see the inside of it. You're just seeing the building of it.

So I thought there was going to be a cool scene a la like Mission Impossible where they were going to, I would like to talk about Mission Impossible and compared to its structure, too, because I feel like they're the same exact movie. Rogue Nation and this are very similar movies. but I thought they were going to be a theater. I didn't know how they were going to both building. But that was also something that they had gotten word that they could blow up a building. It was retroactively.

Well, Mexico pulled out all the stops to get them down there. 100%. But that's interesting because I read the early version of the script and that. When? Oh, Phil Noble Jr. sent it to me. I'll send it to you. But that's in there. Not only is it in there, it is like detailed, so detailed to what you see in.

Oh, wow. And I wonder if it was like retroactively. Well, maybe it was just, maybe it was more of the fact that Mexico was this like championing. Well, it gets me of this in Mexico, so who knows? Mexico was like, please do this. What do you do? You want to blow something up here? How about this theater?

Yeah. Well, I don't think they knew it was that building. Well, I think they made a play. I think, well, my one was down there, the people who were saying that they made a big play to get bond down. Yeah. They were very. Huge tax credit. Yeah.

It felt to me, and that maybe it was my interpretation that they felt like they were going like, we wooed them. like the Olympics to come here because they were very excited. Because that took forever, apparently, to set up and shoot. That's what they were saying. Again, these are all hearsay, I don't know. The editor is for sure that they needed to go to the snow. I wonder how many of those mandates they had, and I wonder if it helped or hurt. Well, it can't help.

Did they come from Broccoli and Wilson? But if you're never starting with the story and you're having to retro engineer your story around certain parameters that are arbitrary, that can't help. No, I think sometimes it does because it's the whole thing of like. checking the boxes thing, which is like, I like a snow in a James Bond movie, and it was fun to see. Like, I don't mind that that people had an issue with their clinic being in the snow. I was like, I don't, I don't, I don't like.

Well, that was also a nice nod to. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, the movie was on Her Majesty Secret Service. That's what I kind of felt like, yeah. In some ways, yeah. Not some ways. In all lot of ways. Well, also, Irma Bunt was originally in it in the script too.

Really? Yeah. So they were clearly heading that way. Well, it's interesting to me. I mean, this does throw the whole, I guess we're just all satisfied. that the timeline of James Bond is what it is. Whatever. Yeah.

Doesn't matter. Right. Doesn't matter if this James Bond has been married or not or whatever. So do you think Dale Craig has been married? The his bond character? No, he clearly hasn't. Okay. I mean, there's no two ways about it.

I don't think that there's connective tissue. I think whenever you have a new bond, it's like a doctor, that's the way I view it. It's a doctor who we are hearing this story from these are the memories of this guy. But all of the previous bonds were one. person. Yes. They connect, they take pains to connect them.

They were all one person. This is a reboot of the series. The first time they've rebooted it, if you don't count, never say never again. Wow, that's okay. The Pierce Brosden was married. Yes, to Tracy.

And they, I don't know that they ever did they ever bring it up in Brossons, but they do in Dalton's and they do in Roger Moore. Yeah. Yeah. But it's interesting.

The thing about the whole floating timeline of James Bond, it is, I feel like they having reboot, it, they have just moved too fast with it. Do you know what I mean? I agree.

Like they've now made this guy retired. I know. That's one of the problems I was skyfall. It's the bullshit of like Batman. It's the bullshit of the Dark Night Returns where like you were only Batman for like two and a half years and then your girlfriend gets killed and you fucking go hide in your house for eight years. But then you think about it too that they'll probably have, we talked about this after Specter, they'll have to end this storyline and probably this James Bond with the end. of Daniel Craig because how does someone come into this before you could step into bond because it was always episodic now whoever steps into this is going to have to follow this storyline right

complicated story yeah they've got to re-aided that it wasn't before yeah and and i feel like well that's my again with the end i would have loved this james bond to end with blowfeld escaping i thought that would have been a cool anti-james bond ending yeah because now they'll have to start the next one with him but that's yeah that's the cold open for the next one i love right i guess yeah but i'm you I think it would have been cool it would have been fulfilling on some level he didn't get his man and then that continues the story a little bit too because this guy is so powerful like I don't know there was something that I feel like they they kind of they head in the direction and they kind of just go well we're going to do what you what you expect it to be yeah I think that they'll go a little bit more with the books and go to the last blowfeld novel you only live twice where he has this like death garden where he grows like plants that are venomous and stuff and bond has a showdown with Irma Bunn and and Blofeld, and he kills them with his bare hand. Like, I think he chokes Blowfeld to death or something.

Oh, wow. In their Japanese castle and garden or wherever they're living. But I think it'll be after that, after he kills Madeline Swan. But it's also, like, do you think, Craig's coming back, we think, right? He's going to come back. Yeah. And I like that. I did like so.

You met him. Yeah, I did. Yeah. He's a great guy. By the way, I have to say that, you know, you told me to check out that episode of Nerdist and it was fantastic because I've never seen him so light. I know. I think of him as someone that is difficult.

Yeah. And that was really refreshing and I got more out of him than I ever have. Well, you realize it's like, oh, he's difficult to idiots. Like, you go around the world and you're answering the same stupid questions a million times for eight hours a day, if not more. And you probably are just getting short with everybody. And I felt like when I was on there, I was like, oh, I love him. Yeah. It was interesting to sort of take the approach with him of just, A, we had the luxury of having time.

Yeah. So we had him for an hour, so we could just sort of slow roll it out. And it was good to talk to him, you know, not start off and being like, so what makes this bond different? Yeah. But the more important questions are, like, what does he smell like? He smells like a natural deodorant. And then, like, you know, when you meet people in real life, does he cut a tall figure? he feel shorter?

He felt taller than I thought he would because he's about my height. Oh, wow. But he just felt taller. Like when I stood up to shake his hand, he just, and he came in, he was dressed like you'd think James Bond would dress. Like he had on a brown sweater with a tie and a brown vintage Levi jacket, leather jacket with like a France pin, because that had just happened. I'm like, oh, hello.

I imagine he sat like this and then. then ended up like this. He crossed his legs a lot? He sat like this. I sat, my entire posture throughout the episode was this. I just was back and I put the microphone on my lap and I just said, he was right there, Hardwick was right there. I love it.

And I just was like, uh-huh. It was one of my favorite things to listen to. And again, like, talking about Spector again, it's like, oh, I saw it opening night at midnight. I was so excited to be there. And there's so much. And I think Sam Mendy's as a director, like that car chase that he does when they're in the canals. It's one of the, I think one of the, I love that car chase because I thought they just felt like effortless. Like it just felt smooth in a way.

It's a good car. I did like, I did like, I liked that the rounds weren't loaded into the guns. Yeah. And I love that. I did not like the music. No, I didn't either. No, but the music bit is very like Roger Morey. No, the most Roger Moore.

thing in the entire movie is the guy in the Fiat that gets pushed into the parking spot. James Boyden had a great, you know, you could have it either way in the cold open when he lands on the couch and you have a nice Roger Moore moment where he kind of goes, oh, all right. James was saying he should have landed right next to the couch and then look to the couch and going like, which would also be kind of a nod of like, my bond doesn't land on the couch, but fuck it. God damn, why can't my bond land on the couch? Yeah, I think that would have been great.

But the, yeah, and that old Italian guy just felt like, I mean, I mean, Spielberg, too. Interesting. But I felt like there was something about it that in the moment, I didn't, I didn't, like, cringe. Like, and that's what I feel like about Sam Mendy's. I'm like, oh, I love the way that you do this. Like, it just feels smooth. And it, like, and it looks cool. And it, like, and I think that seems like your issue with Skyfall.

Like, it looks, it always looks good. And I just felt like, yeah, like, again, I liked, oh, I really liked a lot of it. I think my thing starts to go downhill a little bit more. I guess what I'm missing is something that James Bond doesn't do, which is go like to Matt on and Swan. Could you believe that? That's my fucking brother. Exactly.

I don't understand. That's driving me mental. Like, I want that. Like, I want that moment. I thought this guy was dead and now he's here. Yeah. I want that. And I think like it's hard not to have that.

I know he's not supposed to do that. When, we might have talked about this before when we recorded, but when she says I can't do this and I'm leaving and he just does his old, like stoic Daniel Craig James Bond, like I've been heard before, women don't affect me. I would have liked at that moment for him to go, oh, fuck, like, this time I've really, I'm losing another one.

And that way we would have really cared that in the end he chose her, which I think we do, but it would have been nice to see him care in the beginning. And then we'd understand that he loves her because we've only heard her say it, and they haven't had a ton of character development to make you believe it. It's a problem of a character that is an emotional void.

And I think that he's done a great job of making that a realistic thing. And he's like, you know, so his highs aren't highs and his lows aren't lows. He's just kind of always at middle and sometimes a little bit more angrier, you know. Yeah, the psychology of James Bond is interesting. Like, he's just so, he's so detached all the time. That's why I wanted this to break. And that way we'd know why he would go with her because, like, Vest... He's finally found another woman.

Who would you like more of Vesper or Vesper? I'll always be Vesper. I mean, Vesper, yeah, she's amazing. I took my dad to see this when he was in town because we have a bond history. He really liked it. And then... I got to go with the Mamelin, sorry. Huh?

Oh, really? Yeah. Wow. And so my girlfriend, or fiancé, Jesus, Amanda. Congratulations. Thank you. She went to see it and we were talking about Casino Royale on the way home. And both Amanda and my dad went, oh, we should watch that.

And I was like, what? Really? Okay. So we put it on. Boy, that movie is so good and holds up. And watching it after Spector, I did like Spector, but nothing can touch that movie. That movie is really perfect. I feel like that, like, that shares similar DNA with Creed, which is a movie I really loved as well.

And no spoilers there, but it's like, here's something that you like. And we're going to give you everything that you like from this thing, but we're going to make it real. We're going to make it now of the time. and cooler. What do you think started this whole push to making things more realistic? Like what was it? I think born.

I do. Born and Batman. But the thing I can't understand. But what was the push to make Batman more realistic? I think because they've done with the Schumacher years. And people like, but I think people have heightened, I think maybe after 9-11. Yeah.

Like if you want to go like, you know, there was more of a, there are more stakes to things. And I feel like, and also you heighten so much, it's a photocop. of a photocopy of a photocopy. He's like, all right, well, like, you get invisible Aston Martin. It's like, where do you go?

Where can you go and where are these stories? Well, the answer is smart blood. I know. I feel like, I feel like when Skyfall, everybody's like, oh, Skyfall is the best James Bond when Casino Royale is sitting right there. Oh, Casino Royale is so much better than Skyfall. Not that Skyfall's not good. But it really hit with the public.

I think that, and I am a very big Skyfall fan, and I think that Skyfall feels like, I I think that Skyfall feels like, and it doesn't check the boxes that you guys have, which is like, it is what I think people, America, non-James Bond fans, just general like, I'm interested want James Bond to be. It's like, it's very simple. It's like a, it's cool and it's like, and it looks beautiful, but it's like they have no allegiance to the James Bond tropes. And so by having them not there, it's a very like, here's the bad guy, here's one guy. It's, you know, I don't know. I think it's, it seems the easiest to get into for a non-fan. That's why I think it was so successful and so kind of beloved.

Yeah. Because anyone can see it. Spector's creeping up. It's an $8663 million worldwide. Not bad. Not bad. I think it has to make, what, like one? They wanted it to make a billion.

I don't know. What does Star Wars make of the weekend? I don't know. I think it made five. Five, yes. Star Wars made a lot of money. Yeah, I mean, worldwide. It was crazy.

Yeah. Anyway. Daniel Craig, did you notice the Daniel Craig cameo? Did you see it? I have since heard that before, but I thought it wasn't true. Then I saw the movie and then I heard it was confirmed, so I'm looking forward to seeing it again. I'm also looking forward.

You guys should do a special Force Awakens podcast. I was saying to Paul. We can just shift this right. No, I was saying to Paul that I would love to do a Force Awakens. That's another movie I want to talk about and get into in many ways. But our producer has not seen the movie. Oh, really? Yeah, we can't.

I'm glad I didn't say anything. You can talk about it. I'm not going to spoil it for you. I'm not going to play your plugs in. No, no. No, it would be too much. I also feel like people may be wanting to listen to this. Yeah, don't want that's spoiled.

The idea, too, that, well, the one thing that if you did see Star Wars, which I recommend to everybody, is to go online and look up all the rumors that were floating around, things I avoided for so long. It's fascinating to see what was out there, what was kind of true, what was not kind of true, what were the set pictures of people hypothesized on. I went on a big wormhole last night. Just like looking at certain character pictures and leaked images. What did you Google to do that?

I started to like, I knew that slash film has been very respectful about spoiler-free posts and then spoiler-filled posts. So I went down that path a little bit. Then I went back. Then I went down Screen Rant, kind of collected a little bit of their rumor posts. And they kind of said, all right, now you know. So this is what we reported on and here, you know, because nothing is wrong. It's just like, here's a picture, here's a hypothesis. The one thing that I leaked to me was wrong, and it was how the film starts.

And I think it might have been an earlier version. That was Kevin. I knew that one, too, I think. Or was that a red herring? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I read a thing, interestingly enough, again, about what the Mcuffin of the movie was. And that was interesting, like a few of their ideas that were on the table and taken off.

The one I think I can spoil here without writing anything for anybody is apparently there's a big rumor that Hayden Christensen was snuck in to Pinewood to shoot a potential ghost scene. That is not true. That did not happen. But that was... Well, apparently, Ewan McGregor recorded some dialogue. Yes, that is now confirmed. Yeah.

For a Force Awakens? Yes. It's there. And so did Frank Oz. Yep. And so did Frank Oz. It happens in the... Oh, the montage.

We'll call the... Everyone, there were some people online that was calling it a forceback instead of a flashback. Oh, I like that. I wanted to punch everyone. The, that is, and also they manipulated Alec Guinness's voice. So they have new dialogue from Alginis. There are, I can't wait to sit down. I want to watch it again.

Take a nap at the I pick through this film. Oh, that's not a bad idea. That's a good one. What's your week like? It's open. Paul, you in town? Look, I'm always up for an I pick movie. I am in town.

I'm not going anywhere for the holiday. I now live five minutes from there, too. See? Oh, boy. All right. So we light the opening. Yep. We, I mean, I love Ray Fines.

I love, I love Ben in this movie. Yeah. He's great. I love him. He is so good and I love the way they introduced him and I love how he's grown. Like that's, like, like, that's what I do like about the James Bond. He's now really taken ownership of the quartermaster department. Yes.

That's what I really liked about it. And you got to see, which is something that I love about James Bond, the walk through the two department. Yes, he picks up a gadget that they're not going to use. Yeah. Yeah. And I love it. And I love it. And this is like, this is where the movie,

it's so like black and white to me because it's like, it works in the way of they show you all this cool shit and they go, and you get a watch. And I'm like, yeah, that's what you want it to be. You want to know it exists and you want to know, and then he gets a watch. Like it's like, so it's staying true to

guys, when I was wearing Daniel Craig's watch. By the way, that was amazing. I know. You were wearing his watch, his shoes. I wanted to make sure I wrote down the name of those shoes. They sounded really good.

Crocket and Jones. I haven't any good. to contend with my jealousy for this. The greatest thing was when he spotted the the p coat that I had on the, I had it on the back of the chair. He got every single thing. Didn't he say he pretty much selects all that for the character? But it was such a weird thing to see him like lock eyes with me and then look past me and then

who makes that coat? Oh, that's the question. I'm burying the lead. Oh. How deep were those swimming pool eyes? They were, let me say this. First of all, there needs to be at least four lifeguards on duty. because that shit is deep and there's an undertow.

It's going to suck you right in. Oh, my God, yet it's crystal blue. Eyes are ridiculous. They're ridiculous. I don't get why people didn't like the Madeline Swan story. And that's the one thing that I think a lot of people rejected. And I know it moved quickly, but I liked her. I thought she was great.

She was fantastic. And beautiful. She was gorgeous. She was believable. I also really, the more I watch it, the more I really like Christoph Waltz. I liked him in the beginning, but I also thought, oh, he's maybe doing it. his Christoph Walt's thing. He tones it down quite a bit, especially in his...

How would you describe a Christoph Waltz thing? Can I try some of your delicious milk? She's great. And yeah, they needed a little bit more development, but I like the storyline. I like all the choices they made up until... And what I would say normally is like they were pressed for time, but they seem to take their time with this two and a half hour movie. This movie is long.

It is. It is. in, you know, you're squeezing in, there's really like an A plot, a B plot, and a C plot in this movie. The C plot being the love story, the A plot being Blofeld and the B plot being what's happening at MI6. Yeah, it's like a sitcom 101 writing. I think my favorite scene in the film is actually Mr. White and Bond at the table. Oh, yeah.

Yes. Really good. That's a great, and again, it was a great way to kind of, I like bringing him back. I like that character and where he kind of gone to. I thought that was great. My wife was trying to clean the kitchen after a party, and I said that she was a kite dancing in a hurricane. I will never not have that in my heads.

He's everywhere. What I love about this world, too, is like following that character lives. And what is he doing? It's like there's a stakes to it, because I feel like every bomb movie is like, and we kill the villains, and we never talk about it again,

and it's all, and I do like putting it all under one umbrella. I just felt like some of it was like shoehorned umbrella. And that was in there, too. They didn't have Blofeld. And if they had Blofeld and if they had Blofeld in Casino Royale, they could have planted that seat and driven that forward. I want to say something.

I think that the James Bond movies are better off for not have having Blofeld for as long as they haven't had him. I agree, but I will say there's also press, for this because in from rush with love they go oh that last movie Dr. No was done by this guy Blofeld right so you could say that's a nod I'm not going to give them that much credit

I do think you're right there like let's let's shoehorn all this together because the quantum is well no quantum is quite like just keep it quantum yeah it's change the name or yeah exactly they just a subset of Specter but you see that that's the thing but you see like instead of and that's why

I think like the fan service shit is is a pain because like just go like oh that was like you but they want to use specter they want to say specter because it is cool and it's and you know and and and so then you they have to like kind of ratchet it back yeah I was on the edge of my seat wondering if they would tell you what the acronym stood for just to laugh out loud in the theater at the end of the day though you know I had this a little bit with Star Wars I was talking on another podcast about this that Star Wars and James Bond for better or for worse exist before I grew into a critical phase So not only it's one of the two things probably in life that I can go into these franchises leaving my criticism at the doorstep, but I also feel I just realized recently that I'm doing myself a favor of like these aren't Godfather movies.

They don't have to be brilliant. Why not give myself the gift of enjoying them? They're popcorn movies. And so here I am on a podcast where all we do is dissect these films saying I shouldn't do that. We do it with love. We do it with love. Yeah. But there is something to Star Wars especially where I was like, yeah, there was some flaws.

But remember, you were a kid when you saw Star Wars. If you watched it right now, you would find some major flaws. There are always going to be flaws. And I feel like there's one perfect movie. It's called Jaws. V.N. I'll say Casino Royale. But I love these movies.

And I love watching this one. And I love being there on opening night. And that energy of fans enjoying and wanting to see this thing. And no one does this action. like this. And when you see it like in the Avengers, it doesn't feel real. But now, to bring back my other point, I really am a huge fan of the new Mission Impossible's after JJ Abrams took over. And I think that this movie is very much plot-wise similar to Rogue Nation. I know I brought it up a little bit earlier, but if you look at them down the center,

it's someone trying to shut down MI5 and make it more modern. Someone's trying to shut down the Mission Impossible Force and bring it to the CIA. Then, you know, and so, And they're both of those guys are like these evil guys. And then, and, you know, one guy's on this mission and he's trying to hide it from the other guy. They're both doing that. Like, the only difference is that Jeremy Renner is a little bit more on Tom Cruise's side. But they pair up with, you know, a very powerful female. There's a lot of, a lot of similarities to storytelling.

Well, there's no doubt the current M.I or Mission Apostle series are doing classic Bond better than Bond. is now because it's not entirely going for that. But that Mission Impossible movie was like the best Roger Moore Bond movie I've ever seen. Yeah. Well, it's also like no one is going to touch Tom Cruise right now with his, literally. With his fucking stunts that he will do in real life. Yeah, they're amazing. Like, it's crazy.

It's also crazy that they're insuring him. I don't know if like Zeno's involved, but he seems to be just. Well, I think if you do it enough, like, and you are the producer and you are the lead and you can't get in. the movie gets made because of your involvement, you can kind of call those shots. He's just not an actor for hire. Well, I mean, if you remember in Mission Impossible 2, he's free climbing.

Yeah. At the beginning of that movie, that's where it started as far as I can remember. He's always up in the mix. He's an on-screen adrenaline junkie. Now, when I talk to him at the Nerdist Podcasts. I see that one now, too. Don't. It's such a garbage interview.

It's such a fluff time. It's so weird because he is Like you cannot You ask him like he says on the On the podcast that he watches a movie every day He loves movies He has a theater at his house So when you ask him what a movie he likes

Very recently is He just goes So many you know It's just I can't Like it's that kind of thing Where he's worried about Because they're probably all his own movies Maybe it's just

I feel like you got him like Did you get him around award season I feel like it's like You don't want to say what they like and what they don't like or it's so weird it's like i feel it's like just be like oh yeah i watched young frankenstein last night no one will argue it yeah yeah fine yeah cool right yeah want to see melbrook's movie like you know like you know but it's like yeah they're very like uh yeah daniel craig much more revealing um the i loved dave boutista in this movie oh he was great that was a fun

villain again like a great nod to it and potentially not dead oh they may jaws him i think If they decide to go full bore with this reboot style, like this classic style, they may jaws him back. I hope they jaws him and turn him good. They may. I mean, he's clearly likable. He's, he, I'm just so surprised that Dave Batista coming on is like this great acting action sidekick.

Well, he's great with a mono, by the way, he's doing it the right way, the monosyllabic acting guy, like, or no words, you know. but watching Richard Keelan Free Your Eyes Only just recently that is one of the coolest scenes and it's a Roger Moore movie so it's always a little goofy but like John's just rips apart a car

like they're in a car Oh, it's a spy who love me. Oh sorry, the Spy Who Love Me I'm sorry, that's the one I was talking about Not for Your Eyes Only is one there with the Italian guy climbing on the mountain, sorry yeah I had whited out too I was like wait what is he talking about?

Oh sorry sorry I said I mess with because that's again Free Your Eyes Only and Spy Who Love Me also feel like one movie to me that I don't really I mean I know I know I know the, I guess it was not, it was like two 70s to be, I don't know, it doesn't resonate with me, but then, but I remember the, like, the, the night when they're in Cairo and all that

sort of stuff, but that first introduction to him just ripping apart the minivan is so great. When they're at that weird outdoor Egypt light show. Yeah. The pyramids. Does that actually happen? I don't know. I want to see that. That was a huge question for me.

In fact, they, yeah, I think they shot during one of those, if I'm not mistaken. Very similar to the view to a kill butterfly show. Like, you guys want to shoot during the 3 p.m. or the 5.30? Well, can we get into 3 and then if we miss something, we can get into the 530? I will say this about Spector. Same thing with Skyfall. I clearly need more time to fully, you know, like with a Bond movie, you almost need years to let it settle into the franchise before you can kind of pick it out. Well, that's why I even watch watching it a second time.

made me understand parts that I was like when I walked out the first time I was like I walked out sight I had the poster because I got it because I was in the middle of wherever I was and and and I was you know and I walked out psyched and then watching it and then I was like oh but I don't understand this and I read a couple things online and people like man and then I was talking to people I was like oh I don't know I don't know and then I watched it the second time I was like oh no it's there you just have to kind of dig you're saying it's it's it's it's like

there, it just is covered. It should have been more clear. The first bad review of it I had tried to read. In the first paragraph, the person says that James Bond conjures an airplane out of nowhere, and I just got really annoyed at that person because there's an establishing shot with the runway right next to the building. I just was like, pay more attention before you try to rip a thing apart. And I also feel like the franchise is too smart for that.

They're not doing anything like that. Like, my issues are more story issues. They're not like Bond issues. and I feel like, what you're called, too. The thing in the review that gets me is he's so uninterested. He's so checked out. Daniel Craig is so checked out in this movie, just going through the motions. I read that so many times, and I was like, I don't get that at all.

Well, you picked that up in the one scene where they're escaping the fortress. Yeah, because he's just moving sort of slow, but I feel like it's both a character choice and maybe informed a little by Daniel Craig. But it does feel like the character's a lot to do that. Didn't he break his leg or his arm on the movie? Towards ACL. Yeah, towards ACL, yeah. I feel like maybe he's like, I don't want to run anymore.

In the train fight. I think that's probably what it is, yeah. Well, I also think it's like the character, Daniel Craig's James Bond has been, um, uh, he, first of all,

he resigns in the first movie. Like, this is a guy who just like, doesn't want to be there at all. He resigns in the first movie. Uh, quantum, uh,

he's, he's totally, rogue, right? In Quantum? Yeah, he goes there after him and he was rogue. I'm like, he's like, I'm out of here. I got to watch Quantum again. Yeah. Skyfall, watch it back to back with Casino Rail much better. I think it's going to age a lot better than people remember.

And then in Skyfall, he gets shot in the shoulder and then decides I quit. He's always getting out of it. We were talking about this before and I was like, oh yeah, he never wants to be James Bond. He's the only James Bond that doesn't want to be James Bond. Right, right. And that's why

I thought, like, the setup, the ending of Skyfall, where he hands him a dossier, and he says, are you ready to get to work with pleasure, with pleasure, I was just over the moon. I thought, here we go. Finally, James Bond's going to go on a proper mission and do his thing. And he is going on a mission, and it's given to him by Judy Dench. By the way, great job not spoiling that cameo for anybody. Oh, yeah, that was great. It was a nice surprise.

It was great to see Dame Judy drenched. but the character then at the end of this movie where you're sort of getting your James Bond, he again chooses to leave. This guy has never... I like that because...

I like that because they've at least committed to the fact that he's reluctant to be, and he's basically only doing this because he lost Vesper at this point. He's like, fuck it, I'm never going to have a normal life. I might as well be a sociopath. And then he finally gets another chance at it and takes it, which I think

if he would have not gone with Madeline Swan, it might have been more difficult because he kind of, I think from the beginning his Bond wanted that. And now he has that chance again. And that's why I wanted to see him more upset when she walks away. But now don't you go like this, go, okay, well, if that is true,

then we have to open up the next movie with Bond not an MI6. Yeah. With this woman. And if she's killed, then it's like got to be like licensed to kill or something where it's like, or not licensed to kill, the one with, the one with Richard Davy,

which was licensed to kill. Yeah. where he's like, I got to now go on my revenge mission. And it's not going to be a typical James Bond mission. Again. And then that's going to be the end of the Daniel Craig connection. And then they're going to have to start all over again. So we're not going to get, we're never going to get the James Bond mission that we like.

No, I think it's done. Yeah. Whereas like Mission Impossible, I think has taken that baton and back, we're going to do missions. Because I think, like, I remember reading a thing with Tom Cruise about why Mission Impossible didn't succeed. And he's, or I guess it succeeded, but what he didn't like. like about it. And it was a good point. It was like, the thing is called like, the impossible mission force. They kill all of the people on his team. And then he's got to do it alone. Like, you know, it's like, well, they've taken away the one thing. That first one is a huge misstep. Plus, the bad

guy is the leader of the impossible missions for the case. Yeah, it was felt, right? Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, you take away the one thing. And so that's the one thing that bones me up because I do feel like you. Like, just do a mission. Let's just see a mission. Like, like, it doesn't have to be for revenge. It doesn't have to be personal. It's like, you are this guy. Like, and why can't a mission be as exciting as a serialized story. I am worried that they're going to start with Bond at home with Madeline Swan and I'm going, we need you one last time. Yeah.

Come on this mission and then she'll incidentally be killed or something. No, I think it has to be Blofeld kills her. And then the end to Daniel Craig's arc is he goes on a revenge mission, kills Blofeld, and maybe even dies himself. Oh. Wait, no. Yeah. How many revenge missions has he been on?

Like, just the Daniel Craig ones have all been. Yeah. Like, so, like, obviously, Casino Real ends with the revenge mission and begins with one. Yeah. And that's kind of he's off the grid. And that's what he is in quantum. He's quantum. He's fully going after the people.

And then Skyfall kind of. Not really. Yeah, I guess he's like, yeah, okay. Skyfall is kind of the. And then the trope you don't want from the next movie. Skyfall is kind of like he sees Wolf Blitzer talking about MI6 getting He's like, fuck, I got to go back. Exactly.

Yeah, they've already done that. But what happened to that girl? What about the girl that he fell in love with in Mexico? The one with the, where, like, within that, and then the beginning of skyfall after he jumps up the train. Oh, is he in Turkey or something? Yeah, Turkey. Like, what happened to that girl?

Why didn't he, what? What happened to the girl from Kwan of Salas? I mean, that was wonderful. Yeah, I like that, too. That relationship's great. They don't have sex. Yeah. They just need each other to do their revenge missions.

But this is what I like to. I like about Daniel Craig's character. I think we talked about this too, is he fell in love with Vesper. She boned out and died and killed herself. Well, she really screwed him. Yeah. Then he goes to this next girl and kind of tries to kiss her and she rebuffs him. Yeah.

And then goes on to Skyfall and it's not really about a woman. And then meets someone he really loves again in Specter and chooses her. So he's all, he wants to be with someone, I think. I think he wants out of this life. And that's something Bond has never been. And it's, I think they should. But what does he think he's going to do? Like, does he think he can have a nice life somewhere?

That's why he's wanted by everyone. See, I thought that this would have been the best ending for Daniel Craig in the sense that that's a nice button. Blofeld's caught and he goes off into the sunset. By bringing it back, it feels like, okay, you know, back to the drive. Because it did feel like him throwing that gun on the bridge. I love that. I don't know. I thought that was cool.

Like, I thought that was a cool choice if he's not coming back. I was like, oh, that's the end. Like, that's... Yeah, did they do that because they want to set up a revenge thing or because they truly didn't know if Craig was coming back? Because he's got another film in his contract. Yeah. Right.

So I have to believe that they're going, now we're set up to do the Honor Majesty Secret Service idea. But they just did elements of it. But they can't do that again. No, I'm just talking about... I'm talking about... I'm talking about... ...killing the wife and having that, which has been in... What you're talking about now is diamonds are forever.

But it's... arguably the only through line of bond previous to the Craig films. Correct. Absolutely. And so I think it would be good to put that back in. Boom. Yeah. But then I also feel like what, Blofeld to me then becomes what?

Because we see how the power struck. Like, all right, so if he's in jail, we got to put him in jail for what? I mean, unless the movie takes place immediately right after, like the movie just starts. Which they've been fucking really on board doing. Yeah. Which I think that that actually would help this because. Because you put Blofeld in jail for a little bit. And the way that he's going to be confined is going to be, you know.

Like Magneto. Yeah. So, like, you're not going to. Or they're going to put him like Jason Statham at the end of Fast and Furious Seven. Like. Yeah, right. Yeah. That one.

I didn't see that one. The most ridiculous jail cell ever. It's a hilarious. Like, he's walking down a hallway and there are any, and there's like these little gun windows, like, maybe like six on each side. Each with like guns trained on him. And then he's like being flanked by the rock. and like arm guards putting into a small cell.

Like that's how it ends. And it's like beneath the surface of the earth. Yeah. It's like crazy. Like it's hundreds of feet below the surface. It's essentially the best like prison ever built. Maybe the Lex Lutheran with just a hot air balloon. Ah.

But I would like to say, I mean, I guess I feel like, because I feel like the power void with like, because then you have to be like, well, Bluffet escapes, then he has to get back into power because, you know, this is a group of criminals. Like the minute he's gone, they're like, all right who's next you want to get in here like i mean they're not going to be like all right guys he's back everyone back to your old positions like you know like then he's going to have no power

they have written themselves into a corner for sure but i think that that may have come out of the fact that they're like we don't have an ending let's just get something that'll work for this right now right and they may be screwed should we like call them and be like we'd be glad to break this story for you oh yeah let us move on this movie does have the feel of one guy wrote a draft the people didn't like it they brought in people that fixed a lot of But at the same time, now you have two voices on it. And so something isn't totally right. And then they brought a third person in.

And it does feel like you're going in and out of three people's scripts a little bit. So you have read the first version of this movie, the first draft? No, I've read when Purvis and Wade came on board. I don't know if it's before or after the edition of Jazz Butterworth. What has Jazz done? Other than having a really great name, I don't know. I feel like that's like syrup and human body fluid all in once. Don't you feel like two other people have looked at it that just are not credited?

I feel like there's so many people. Like you mean, Carrie Fisher wrote, was it, the Phantom Menace? Like, you know, but like,

or, you know, which is a crazy fact. Wait, she did some dialogue. Buckle the fuck up. Yeah. What are you talking about?

Yeah. Like he, Lucas brought Carrie Fisher into punch up the Phantom Menace, not the Force Awakens. Because he loved postcards from the edge so much? Much. Like what? Just wanted to bring some of that Carrie Fisher humor into the mix.

Like the most on the... Can you pull anything out of that movie that could possibly be? Oh my God. No. I'm trying to think of anything that has any kind of like... I mean, this movie Force Awakens essentially starts with a joke. It's amazing. No pod is worth two slaves, not by a long shot.

That's probably she wrote. I bet I know what it was. She killed with the Subalva character. I know what it is. You're a pilot all my life. She probably like George was like, I got to bring in a Jew to write this clearly anti-Semitic traitor that has slaves. She just used that script to roll up tightly so she can snore cocaine out of it.

Yeah, now talking about Spectre, I want to go see it again. And now the things that I like are bigger. The one thing that you guys clarified for me is very important. I thought that he was hitting those veins. Right, right, yeah. He's not a Superman. Because it seems like he's like, ah, like he's like bracing it would hurt. I mean, by the way, it would fucking really hurt.

Especially the tooth. Yeah. That one would hurt the most. This is soft tissue or something down there. But the tooth isn't like crazy in the sense of like, that's how they did dentistry for years before anesthesia. It's a marathon. All you have to do is just be. But the other thing I like that.

You just have to be as tough as a cowboy. It's very fleming to be doing that kind of torture. Yep. I like, I mean, I like, I like, I like, I like, I like, that I love how the layer blows up with a couple of bullet shots. That was a Guinness Book of World Records. There's a YouTube video or something you can check it out where you see it all happen. It's incredible.

I thought that was CG. Nope. Not that it didn't look good. Some of the structures, CG, but it's amazing. It's the biggest explosion on film ever. Two world records for the Craig films. Yeah, most car flips. Oh, wow.

Dast and Martin and Casino Rail. I loved that. love having the base. Those are the things that, like, scratch, like an itch. Somebody here has a DB9. There's one park downstairs. Oh, wow. Welcome to.

I doubt to... I doubt it's the Earwolf. Anyone here at the Earwolf thing. We still have to afford computers here. Is it Cody? Cody, you have a DB9? Asked him Martin? No.

Do you know who has it? Is it better? There's so many... You make it like Earwolf. You make it like everyone's here in the park. Like, hey, we're all hanging in the Earwolf. It's a one office in a giant complex. But yeah, oh man, this movie, I want to, what's your favorite, your favorite thing out of the entire movie?

You could just distill it to one moment. That's a good question. I think for me, it's the Scooby gang, which is when Q and M and Moneypenny are. off on their little secret mission. I enjoy the Scooby Deng. I like that, too. I like the idea of making Ray or Ray, making him like part

of the, like, he's not like just a person behind a desk. Yeah. And there's something so enjoyable about that. Like, fuck yeah, get in there. Like, I like, and he's done that now twice where I'm like, yeah. Yeah, like, yeah, it's exciting. My favorite scene is the Mr. White scene,

but I love the moment where Hinks kills that guy by thumbing his eyeballs. Really? Yeah, I did. I did. I thought that was classic. I also, this is fan service, but it's so deep, such a deep cut. The fact that M. Safehouse is called Hildebrand Rarities. Yeah. I was one of the few Fleming titles that hasn't been used. I don't think it'll ever be used, right?

Not unless there's a movie now that just takes place in his safe house. Hey, did you guys see Hildebrand Rarities? Oh, yeah. It's right after Property of a Lady, an ERISA. Property of a Lady. Doe 07 in New York. I think my favorite thing, and it is, you know, is just because I feel like these movies always push something forward in the shooting. I think the doing a one shot on that scale of walking down the street, going in the hotel room, changing the suit, getting up on the building. Like that's not continuous though, right?

That is. It's three. Well, it seemed. Oh, yeah. It's three as far as I could tell. But it seemed until I thought it was all the way until he gets to the roof. It is, yeah. But, I mean, but that's not one?

Well, it looks like one, but they seem it at two points when they walk into the hotel and you see the post for Oh, okay. And then at some point when they whip pan away from the girl and he's out of his costume. Okay. Because also, they've clearly gone to a studio at that point. When he's walking along the ledge, he's blue screened or something. I mean, there's a fuzz around. Oh, I thought that.

That's the only thing that bums me out of a little. Oh, I thought that was real. Is your, is your name? Then I take that back. Is your seam d'ar as good as your wig dar? Well, no, I will say maybe it isn't because. I've been burned on this before because I thought for sure when those two guys fall through the window in Quantum of Solace, that was all CG, but they really did it. But they end up treating it so much in post-production that it looks like CG.

So it could be the same thing with this. I thought he was definitely on that ledge. I mean, if he's not on the ledge, I'm more upset about it. But I like the scope of something that big. Like, I feel like that's a fun. Like, I feel like James Bond has been a very solitary, real, like based in a lot more real moments. Or at least that's my memory of it. And, you know, even though things are blowing up and things like that, but I liked him being with the people.

Yeah. I think it's such a good job of immediately your eye goes to Skiara walking down with a white suit. But then Daniel Craig, who should be completely camouflaged. Somehow you do catch him pretty quickly in the crowd with the girl. It's such good directing. That's like that is, I think that's what, like, he does bring to it. Any chance who thinks Sam Mendes comes back. No.

I don't think so. You don't think he comes back? I think he comes back to rapid up. You do. I think that Daniel Craig is like, let's finish. No, I think they get Martin Campbell back. Oh, no, I don't think that I'll ever happen. Why?

Because of Green Lantern, you think that no one's going to touch him or what? No, because all he wants to do is be known for Green Lantern. Wait, but what about like you get somebody, like, who would be the new? I know Quentin Tarantino, they talked a little bit about him because he'd said he wanted to direct to James Bond, which I don't think would have been good. I think it would have been Jake Quintaritan. You know, I didn't ask him about that last week. Oh, my nerdist. Oh, my God.

But he just recently said that he's past that. He just come out and said, I'm past that. I wanted to. He only has two more films left. But like, is there anybody new, like Mark Millar? Like, I really liked the last Kingsman. Like, or like, who's directed him like that? Vaughn?

Vaughn. Like, yeah. Or Matthew Vaughn? What's that? Yeah, like somebody like that, would you get somebody like that? Because I think the Kingsman, like, that to me, scratches a lot of my James Bond itch. I mean, it's super violent and dirty and whatever.

I think that's too slick with all the bullet time. speed ramping and stuff, but not to say he couldn't do it otherwise. Well, fucking Lee Tamerai with the speed ramping and die another day. It was like... But at least that was almost of its time. I guess the question is, do they get a name director or someone more, like, lessuteur? No, I think they do name, and I think they, I think they're out of the business of not having a name director on these things. They have to, right?

Yeah, who would that be? Who would you like to see? Alberto, the guy that did Revenant and Birdman. Oh, my God. Oh, that would be amazing. No, it's too much. That's why Tarantino wouldn't have worked. Like, Bond is already enough style.

I say the guy who directed Sicario and Prisoners. Oh, okay. That guy would make a great director. I don't know his name, but he's great. Sicario is fantastic. Yeah. Yeah, that's actually, that is a perfect kind of guy. That's because he can do dark.

Yeah. Let's do it. I'll like that. If they give it to JJ Abrams, I'll quit life. Yeah, they might as well. And Daniel Craig definitely coming back. I think so. I would say if he absolutely doesn't want to.

I don't think they'd force him to, but I'm almost positive he'll never do more than one more. Yeah. I feel like he needs to close. I feel like if I'm Daniel Craig, I go, I feel like we wrapped it up. I feel like, I feel like, I feel like, I feel like, I feel like, I feel like, I feel like, I feel like, With this? Yeah, I feel like it's like, that's the end of my story. I think had this movie been as well received as Skyfall?

That's what I think. That would have been correct. I think if the producers are smart, they're giving him lots of time where they're not even calling him about little things. They're just, they're dealing with shit on their own. And then a few months down the road, they start to go, all right. And then he's had some time to relax and goes, okay, maybe we should do one more. Yeah. Because I think, I do believe that they were like, this will be like Skyfall.

and they both walk away into the sunset. And you would have felt, I would have felt super fulfilled. Yeah. I feel like that would have been a great, I thought it was a powerful ending. Yeah. What about this, though?

One last thing. I've noticed in the PR, there's a new person who's been speaking, and it's Michael Wilson's son, and I think he's probably going to be the natural choice to take over. Yeah. Yeah. And so he's working on the films,

and he's doing interviews and stuff. Does Babs not have a child? I don't know. I don't know. But maybe it'll be a team effort. Maybe you bring in a different screenwriter, Wade and Purvis. Oh, Barbara's not that old chicken running. Yeah, I hope she runs it forever.

They did. And it was just John Logan, and they didn't like it so much that they begged Purvis and Wade to come back. It's so confusing. We don't know. Like, we for years have been laboring under the delusion that Pervis and Wade were just the dumb-dums. Right. And then, yeah. Because they wrote, Die another day, and the world was not enough.

and we felt like, well, this is garbage. Sometimes they have to, like, when you look at Pierce Brasden, too, you're like, I feel like those movies reflect Pierce as much as they reflect the time. They reflect Pierce. There's something about those movies that just feel oily to me. And I feel like everybody was on the same page. Like, I don't think that, like, I don't think that Pierce Broson was like, God damn it?

Why isn't my bond grounded? I think he would be like, fellas, I was thinking. What if the car was invisible? And we went to an ISO. Right it. And then, like, you know, he gets, and like, he's like, and I feel like he's vacationing with Barber Broccoli. Like, I have a great idea.

Yeah. I think he's just a positive sort of yes man guy. So anything they threw out of him. Brilliant. Yeah. Let's do it. Because he didn't even really, and again, I'm sorry, I'm always bad with titles. I hate being the Pierce Bros.

An Apologist on this podcast. Don't do it. Like, I feel like he doesn't even really carry over into the film being a prisoner of war. Like, like, I mean, like, that's like a huge crazy open, which I love. It was like, ooh, Bond is like. He's like, a little dark, and he's like, no, no, no, he's fine. Like five minutes later, like, blah, but, but, but, but, but, but that Diner the Day, those, those, that mirrors, and that sort of beginning of him getting captured and then goes away for six months and then comes back. And then they don't quite trust him kind of mirrors skyfall.

Yeah, you could see the Purvis and Wade in there. It's the same sort of thing where he goes away and then he has to come back and take tests and get examined and all that stuff. Same thing happens in Diner the Day. I just want a movie that, you know, if you're going to keep rehashing that, just rehash a mission. One time. Just one time for us. And my one final question to you both is simply this. Is there a world in which the next movie, if Daniel Craig continues, Sean Connery just pops up for something?

Did you hear that the sort of corroborated rumor that Skyfall was originally not going to be his ancestral homeland? It was going to be a home for retirement. hired double O agents, and that Connery was originally the Kincaid role. I heard that Connery was a Kincaid, but it did not know it was that. Yeah, then they scuttled it. Connery and Roger Moore. Well, that was the theory. Theoretically.

Connery, Roger Moore and Tim Dalton were there. That would have made a laughing stock out of that movie. Oh, that would have been the dumbest. But I do want to see that as a separate movie, no doubt. But by the way, I would have loved to have had Kincaid just be Sean Connery, the, the the keeper of the house, like this older groundskeeper. Would have pulled you out of it too much. You think so?

Really just pulled you out of it way too much. He looks so different though, right? I mean, it's... He does, but it's also like... However, I think you could get away with it with like Dalton or Laysenby that are just, they're slightly less iconic. Yeah. Yeah.

So no, I would say no, because it takes you out. Yeah. All right. That's a bummer. Yeah, I don't think so. Yeah, I think Sean Connery's not doing anything for anybody. No, he's done. No.

He's done. No favors for the Rockley. It is crazy that all the bonds are still alive, though. It is remarkable. They've never been all in the same room, right? No. And it's not too late. He wants them in there.

We're going to end with that. Paul, I'm so glad you can join us for this. We'll have you back on the next, whenever the next movie comes out. James Bonding will return in question mark. Yeah, long time from now, but we will be back. We'll check in periodically as long as there are Bonn Films and podcasts. We're here. This isn't going anywhere.

Yeah. All right, Matt. Now leaving nerdist.com. Hey, this is Arnie Neacamp from the Improft Fantasy podcast. Hello from the Magic Tavern. I fell through a dimensional portal behind a Burger King in Chicago into the magical land of food. And I started a podcast. Season three has just begun with a brand new adventure to defeat the dark lord.

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