James Bonding - The Women of Bond with Dani Snow

Episode Date: March 27, 2024

Dani Snow is back to discuss the women of 007: her favorites and not-so-favorites, and their complicated relationship with James Bond and the James Bond franchise itself. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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This is James Bonding. And we're not the only returning people here. In fact, we're happy to have Danny snow back here tonight. Danny, you are 12 days from your wedding. How you feeling? I'm losing my mind. But it's fine. I will soon be a price, not a snow.

Oh, my God. These are both good last names. Do you wish it was spelled with a Y like Jonathan Price? Oh, yeah, sure. I'll make it work. Do you have any James Bond, And, how should I say, wedding songs or moments or anything in there? Not really.

I totally understand that. It's kind of keeping the wedding normal. Yeah. Yeah, I've got, it was like, how much geek do we put it in it? Yeah, I understand. We will be drinking from those Lord of the Rings goblets. Oh, well, that's, well, that's, well, buckle up. Now, that's pretty geeky.

That's not bad. Yeah, those are, those would be good. Yeah. Is your future husband a fan of the Bond franchise? He is. Is he going to try to sneak a watch in or some nice cufflinks? Does he have any inklings towards doing something like that? I think so.

I think so. Yeah, he's keeping it pretty chill. Yeah. But he is a fan. Yeah. I've watched more of the movies than he does. But he did throw me a birthday party, James Womperty. Yeah.

He's so sweet. Is he going to wear a tuxedo? No, it's. summer and it's outdoors. Sure. Let's give you some tweet vests. Yeah, okay. I like that.

You know, might I recommend? I'm sure it's already like all set. But if I could direct him to the suit that Pierce Brosnan is wearing at the end of the world is not enough. You would direct traffic to that suit. That is a summer wedding suit. The shirt tucked in. The shirt tucked in. It is a fine outfit.

It is. Just for swimming. For swimming. And saving the world, stopping a nuclear meltdown, and also, I think, for getting married in North Carolina. I think it's the best suit. It's probably the most versatile suit he's ever worn, Matt. Yeah.

I don't know why you don't love it as much as me. I do love it. Don't get me wrong. I said as much. You're right. Well, it's impossible to love it as much as you love it. It's so true. Oh, it's so true.

Well, today we're going to talk Bond girls, and we're especially excited to have you here because last time you were on, you said that specifically you have some thoughts on this, as many people do, And I think both Matt and I are excited to hear how we approach this because it's not something, obviously, we do all these dumb ranking episodes. And both Matt and I don't feel comfortable going, let's just rank the bond girls, you know,

that seems somehow very bond-y. Yeah, we have not. In a way that isn't good. Well, you know that he probably ranks them. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Are you kidding? Yeah.

Oh, he must. He has a little black book. Remember little black books? I sure do. That was a plot point in many an episode of Chewerex. Cheers. That's real, Sam. Oh, sorry.

I'll be louder. No, it wasn't you. The mic was not facing the right way. So it's obviously a feature of the Bond franchise, but also a bug. In many of the ways, it's been handled and portrayed. Even it's controversial with our listeners, of course. But we're looking forward to talking with you. about it.

Good. I have a lot of thoughts, but I also, you know, it'll be nice to hear, but your thoughts are too. Oh, happy to share. I'm also like, I got to be honest, the definition of a bond girl, I find it to be confusing. Well, even the term girl, too, is I find myself like. That's a good point. Yes, exactly. Right.

I find myself, since we've podcasted going like, ooh, bond girl just doesn't feel right, but that's what it's always been known as. Mm-hmm. It's so funny you say that Because last night I was talking to Dory About this particular episode And I was saying And Matt's right

We do need more Matt was saying how it's a sausage fest on the podcast last night And I was like yeah we need more girls And my wife was like girls Women And I was like bond girls I'm sorry It's just in the head Yeah

Yeah it's interesting that that That became the terminology Because they were all very young early on I mean Maude Adams was probably, how old was she? She was in her, well... In her baluchies. In her, no, she wasn't yet in her baluchies.

She was in her 30s, I would think. I just can't really think of any that are a little bit older or at least look older. Honor Blackman was, I think, a couple years older than Connery when they did Goldfinger, but that's a definite anomaly. Yeah. Not as old as that.

She doesn't come off like a girl. No. I mean, if ever there was a blonde woman. woman, yeah. Yeah. Let's go with Bond Woman tonight, I guess. Yeah, we could say that. We could say Bond Girl.

It's, I don't know. I think, I think breaking down the term is weird. Yeah. It's fine. I don't think it's offensive to say it. Yeah, because it's also just understood. It's almost like a grandfather's face. We didn't come up with it.

Right. Bond broads. We didn't come up with that. I mean, should we even be saying Bond gadgets anymore? Right. Everything's an app now. Do you want Bond Mac? mechanisms.

Like bond conveniences. That will go over really well. I bet. What's your favorite bond convenience? The toothpaste that could blow up also. So where should we start? Where would you like to start?

Let's see. I took a bunch of notes. Take a glance. On a Star Wars, Return of the Jedi, Luke and Vader fight folder. Get a plain notebook when you can get Star Wars. That is good looking. Also, it's kind of hard not to get Star Wars.

It's everywhere. These days, yeah. Yeah. You go to the store and you're like, oh, I need a cup. Yeah. And the only thing there is Star Wars cups. That's right. I saw a very funny Reddit cartoon.

It was an old Mickey Mouse cartoon of him walking with a bunch of empty pails towards this cow that had been, that is just a very skinny cow that clearly had no milk left in it. And they just put a, instead of a bell around its neck, they just put Star Wars. Do I even get that? They're milking?

He's going to go try and, They're milking the Star Wars drive. That's like a regular old political cartoon. They're biting satire. My God. The internet. Yeah. Yeah.

So I guess maybe we could like break down the role of a Bond girl because I think they each kind of serve a different purpose in the film. Like an intended purpose. Sometimes they're there because they're hot. Sometimes they're there so James has someone to save. Sometimes they're the villain. But that of course depends on. your definition of, like, if you look at different bond girl rankings, sometimes there are villains in there and sometimes there aren't.

They keep it separate. So I don't know what you guys, like, is Zanya a bond girl or is she a villain? You're right. She's both, but. Because Bond Girl almost, it does. It means two things. It means like, hey, guess who, here's a woman we've cast in a Bond movie. Like she's an attractive, doesn't matter whether she's good or bad.

And then there's the like, the Bond girl. And then the secondary Bond Girl, like usually the doomed, like one that sleeps with him. Is that the femme fatale? Yes, I guess, yeah. Well, on the 50th anniversary Blu-ray set, each disc that you flip to has one woman's That's right. Oh. I flipped through it one day just trying to see like which ones did they pick.

Some of them obviously, that's the Bond Girl of that film. But there were some that there are multiple women in that movie. How do they pick that one? I don't know. That's a great touchstone. I'm going to go grab that. Yeah. And we'll take a look.

Let's look. Well, I want to, like Sophie Marceau, right? She's the villain. Yeah. The femme fatale. Yeah. She's all of it. She's every single role.

And then you look at like Xenia on the top. She is the only one that he sleeps with that dies also, but she's the bad guy. Yeah. Oh, there it is. Like if you were ranking Bond girls. would you put Miranda Frost into that rule to choose from?

I would put anyone that the producers had a great time announcing had been cast. Yeah, should we try to define it? And that for me feels like the best definition of a bond girl. It's like, so going back to like,

let's take Cubby and Saltzman, anyone that, because you hear all these stories on the commentary tracks of like he saw this girl outside this thing and then he's like, oh, I want to put her in the movie. You're hot. That's what he would do.

Yeah. The same thing with the Lotus. Yeah. Oh, wow. I didn't know that. Get it. And he's the same thing with the Laysenbeig. That's hot.

Put it in. Should we then say that a bond girl is any featured woman in a bond? I think it's any of the speaking role that has a scene with James. But then, yeah, because, so like, take the woman inspector that's in that. cold open and she just says where are you going is she a bond on girl if you look at her resume I guarantee she's a bond girl oh yeah she's gonna list it

okay um here's another question do you consider money penny to be one of the bond girls I think of her as a quintessential bond girl actually she almost supersedes bond girl right she's closer do you I mean I want to but then she just knocks everyone out of the category of like best bond girls

is Judy is M is female M a Bond lady I don't know I feel like the recurring roles could be taken off the table because it's like Sylvia trench off the table well but I mean like the MI6 recurring like because you don't say like M is one of bonds mentors and allies like Karambe or Colombo or something you know what I mean she's just one of the staples yeah but also this mentor ally situation is something that you and I have defined I've not really seen it to find elsewhere. I have. Really? Oh, yeah. I thought it was us. It recurs enough. I've seen ally, because there are enough of them.

Yeah. But, yeah, it's kind of its own little weird category. So we really just have Desmond Lewellyn's hands. They are their own category. Bond hands. So then are we agreed that a bond girl has any, at least significantly featured woman? Like, maybe she has to factor into the plot?

in some way. I would say like a character. I mean, if she's got one of the pun names, she's a bond girl. For sure, yeah. Because like, I think then you could,

if you say if she matters with the plot in some way, you could lose like the Spector Cold Open Girl or the Hynek and woman in Skyfall, you know. That's in then, right? What? It's got to be it. Danny's right. It has to be the name. I think that's it.

I think if you pull the name in the script, in the credited name. In the older movies, if they have a pun name, and I guess in the newer movies, if they're romantically involved. Yes. Or are you saying if they have a,

name at all. I think so. Otherwise, when you look in a script, like for the Heineken girl, you look in the script and it says, beer girl. Is that really what her name is? I'm pretty sure. Beer girl? Like I think like these, none of these she was part of the marketing. But there are also women that have these crazy names

that you actually never hear out loud. Yeah. Okay. And I think it's the name. I think the name should be the criteria. Well, so we'll use those general criteria for getting us through these things. Speaking of the pun names, have you guys ever covered? your favorites?

No. I mean, some of them are truly terrible. Yeah. That aside. What are your favorite? Penelope Smallbone. My favorite. My favorite's 10.

So you're talking just the pun names. Okay. Let me think. Do you have some? No, I was really interested to see what you did. Honestly, Penelope Smallbone is it for me? Only because of the new information that has popped up for me, that that was

a real woman's name. That's right. She was a what? She was the woman who is in the opening credits. She's the opening credits model for For Your Eyes Only That was her name.

Her real name was Penelby Smallbone. Yeah, but also what That makes sense that it's a real name Because otherwise there's a pun It doesn't make any sense. I mean, you could imagine things. Yeah. But no.

I guess. Interesting. Like, this is a tough question because I'm not a huge fan of the pun names that I'm trying to remember the last one there was. Well, I liked in Casino Royale where their covers, her cover was going to be Stephanie Broadchest. That's funny. Because they were really kind of making fun of that convention. That's funny. Okay.

So look, here's, do you like me to read them all to you? Okay. Penelope Smallbone. Pan Ho. Oh, who's Pan Ho? I don't know. I don't remember. Yeah.

Dink, we remember. Yeah. Yeah, but again, is that a pun? No. She's a dumb girl name. Yeah. Of the Bond girls to you. Okay.

Can we to skip the ones that aren't puns? Oh, no, no, no. I see. These are all of them. Okay. I'm happy to skip non-punns. No. What would you like?

No. Just read them. Danny? Just read them. Tracy Bond. Mm-hmm. Miss Caruso. All right.

Miss Caruso is in, I think, Golden Gun. Is that the name of the, what's the name of the dancer in the golden gun? Is that her? The belly dancer. It might be. Rosie Carver. Corinne Dufor. Moonwaker.

Tilly Masterson. I love that name. Helga Brandt. Kara Milvoi. I'm sorry, Malovey. Melovi. Patricia Fearing. That's the name of the Thunderball Nurse.

Oh. There's less pun names than you may remember, I think. I think we're all just. remembering the few... A lot of... Well, we're going to get to some. Miss Tarrow, I feel like, is close. Oh, she's from Dr. No.

Correct. Jill Masterson, doesn't count. Stacey Sutton, doesn't count. A Key from You Only Live Twice. Tatiana Romanova. Sorry. I'm reading these so fast. Well, there's got to be a hundred of these, right?

Yeah, how long? Go to the pun next. Let me go to the puns then. Peaceful was the name of the Missoumone. Brutus brought up to James's room and die another day that he pulls the gun on. Oh, but doesn't she have like a peaceful Fountains of Desire, like a full name or something? Peaceful Fountains of Desire. That is both a bad pun and pretty racist.

Dr. Molly Warm Flash, right? Also from that same genre of movie. That's the thing is half of these pun names are just, what? What is what could Warm Flash? We're going to get crazy in a second here. Chew me. Oh, she's in the pool and Golden Gun. Yeah, she sure is.

Chew me Let's see Honey Rider And that's straight from Fleming Honey Child is her name in the book Christmas Jones Classic Yeah

And then let's see We have Bambi and Thumper I like that one Yeah That may be my top too Solitaire which is a pun Because she's dealing with cards Yeah that's a good one though

It's just like her given name because of what she does. Mary Goodnight. And Plenty O'Toole. She might be the most on the nose. Always think of that one. Jenny Flex. Holly Goodhead.

That's maybe my least favorite one. Zinia on a top. Holly Goodhead is just so on the nose, but in a way that is like, it's not that I'm so offended by how vulgar it is. It's that I'm so offended that they did no more work to even... It's not even creative. It's not.

Yeah, you're right, yeah. Kissy Suzuki? That's just silly. Yeah. And Tiffany Case. Very funny. Tiffany Case is out of this world. At least that one's not so sexual.

Yeah. I think I might go, my favorite might be Kissy Suzuki just because it's innocent and cute. Like, I'm just kissy, and I'm also a car. Hmm. Yeah, I definitely always imagine that there are way more than that. Me too. Now, would you like to hear the definition of a Bond Girl? You didn't name Ziniana talk to it.

According to... According to Wikipedia's definition, which is sourced by everyone who has time on their hands. A Bond Girl is a character, or the actress portraying a character, who is an attractive love interest or female sidekick of James Bond in a novel, film, or video game. Bond girls occasionally have names that are double entendres or puns and are considered ubiquitous symbols of glamour and sophistication. That term female sidekick is interesting. You're not important enough to be any kind of hero. Sidekick.

The following paragraph. There is no set rule as to what kind of person a bond girl will be or what role she will play. That was clearly someone responding to the paragraph before. She may be an ally or an enemy of Bond, pivotal to the mission or simply eye candy. There are female characters such as Judy Dench's M and Camille Montes, a Bolivian intelligence agent who teams up with Bond in Quantuosolus, who are not romantic interests of Bond and hence not strictly Bond girls. However, it has been argued that M's pivotal role in the plot of Skyfall qualifies her as a Bond girl or Bond woman. That's weird. Yeah.

That's strange. It feels incestual. Well, I think, you know... It's just so interesting because, like, all of it is made up, what everyone is saying. About, like, it qualifies as this. You're right. That's interesting. And it's people trying to apply a formula to something that ultimately or generally is formulaic,

but there are plenty of instances of going outside of those rules. And I don't think we can contain it fully. But we can go for the general idea that it was a... a woman that was featured in some way. Has a name is good, yeah. Do you think there's any other franchise that by having actresses in it calls for fans to define it in such a way? Like, it's so interesting that it's so like, oh, who's the actress in this Bond film? Like, there's a new Bond film.

Like, what actresses in it? like it's so interesting that it's such a right yeah it's hard to also even think of franchises that have gone on so long i mean although i will say the marvel is that eight how many movies now 18 is a lot yeah but it's not quite the same thing this is such a trope of the series that you're right there's there's like who's the bond girl and now when they do the press conferences there's the two bond girls usually yes and if you guys heard the rumor that helena bottom carter I saw that and I would be very happy. I want Rachel Weiss.

Yeah. You said that before. Yeah, she'd be good. Yeah, I agree. Hmm. Interesting. Okay. So, yeah.

So I guess one thing that I do want to talk about is the fact that I think it's easy to look at the treatment of female characters and the way they're written and casted. in these movies, there's a lot of sexism. There's a lot of misogyny. And so it's interesting that it's like almost kind of one of the things the franchise is known for nowadays. Yeah. Like people will kind of talk about it. So I think it's interesting because I consider myself a feminist.

And around the time that I started to really get into the franchise, I wasn't really seeing problems. I was younger. I didn't really see the problems. I was just like, oh, cool. But I have a book. You guys, I don't know if you know it. It's the James Bond. It's like the ultimate fan book or something like that.

I don't remember the actual title, but it's by this woman named Deborah Lip. And she... God, that name alone. Could I see a fond girl? Right? It's like almost in theme. Yeah.

Anyway, I found that book really early on when I started to really get into the... franchise and start actually buying the movies and watching them and then like oh i want to see what other people are saying it was the first book that i ever got um and i was reading through it and i was like oh i didn't even notice that it was by a woman really um but in the intro she talks about the fact that she is a lesbian feminist but she grew up watching them and she loves those movies because when she was a little girl, she was seeing female pilots, female assassins, female spies,

and she was like, this is great. So I think that's really interesting. Like, obviously doesn't excuse some of the blatant sexism that the franchise has. But I thought that was really interesting that it maybe in some way has inspired women in certain ways that are positive. Yeah, I think you're right.

There is that double, and I don't want to say double-edged sort. what's the term? I think it's complicated. It's a complicated. It's a two-sided coin. Yeah. Where you're right. I mean,

and that's why I think you get bond women when they're cast in these roles saying, this one's different because they may be seeing things like, like Barbara Bach says that in Spy Who Love Me about her character. It's because she's. It's accurate. Yeah, it's accurate because she is a like spy with agency and she has power, ultimately she ends up being a damsel in distress again. Of course.

But yeah, both things are there. That's fascinating. Yeah. You came in Dalton's era, right? Like that was your first thing? Well. First exposure kind of. No, I mean, I think I saw Connery and more when I was very young.

And then being a kid in the 90s, like, I watched all of Brosman's. The great Pierce Brosman. And yeah. And then also Golden Eye was just so prevalent. Yeah. Especially because there was a game. for a kid, like not for kids, but we had it. So, Golden I was very prevalent.

Yeah. So, yeah, but no, I didn't see Dalton until I was older, which might be. Oh, okay. No, you're right. You told me that, though, that he was like the first one you really felt some feelings. Oh, yeah. Okay, that's what I was thinking of. Because, like, when I was younger, yeah, they were just older men.

Right. And I was like, eh. So, yeah, Dalton. Yeah, and so when I first saw his films, I was like, oh, these are amazing. And then, like, over the years I've come to love them less. Yeah. But I still really could watch them. Because he's very handsome.

Yeah. I could, could you watch the worst? What is a franchise that you are lukewarm on just in general, like a film franchise? Marvel. Okay. So Marvel. For me. And then, Danny, same question.

I either, I don't know if I'm lukewarm on anything. I think I either really like it or just won't watch it. What is one you won't watch? My fiancé really wants me to watch all the Fast and Furious movies. Okay. That's a great example. He hasn't either. Yeah, I'm not into it either.

And I get that. But like, so my question to you guys is, would you rather watch the worst, your least favorite James Bond movie? Yes. Or the best best. Don't allow me. Yes. I've always said the worst James Bond movie is better. It's like the worst day fishing still better than the best day working.

That's exactly what it is. And I always say that anytime I pick on Tomorrow Never Dies, I'm still like, this is a Bond movie, and I will watch it. Yeah. I will say yes, because one of the worst Bond movies is, I don't want to say it's my favorite, but I watch it more than any of the other ones, and that is a view to a kill.

Yes. I love that one. Like-minded. We may be the only three in the world that feel this way. Like what power is? in this room right now for that film. We just love it. Like, I'd like to think that there's a, somehow there's like a GPS that goes off that like...

It finds people. Yeah, like a love of you to a kill, like a Google alert somehow goes off in the universe. Do you like the Eiffel Tower? Do you like Grace Jones? Do you like blimps? Do you want to see San Francisco before housing prizes were crazy? I've got a movie for you. I say yes to all of those things.

Are you into seismic activity and earns full of ashes that don't have ashes in them when they're beat over someone's head. I get why people rag on that movie and I get why people don't like it. But like anything that they say does not affect me wanting to watch it. I agree. I see.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I recently was approached to do an upcoming podcast where you go talk about your favorite movie and they approach me saying like you'll do a Bond movie. That's kind of like you get relegated to those things nowadays. And I'm like, of course it's Casino Real but

I think I want to talk about Vyta O'Kill more. Right. Might be more fun. Yeah. But it's also like what, it's hard because, you know, Vyto A Kill has been in existence for 33 years at this point. But like...

And thank God. I think if Vue to A Kill and Casinoaerail came out at the same time, I would by now have seen Vue to a kill more. It's, it's, yeah, it's imminently watchable. It's got spectacle. Yeah. And that's another role, speaking of the Bond Women. And that's one that's another one of those troubled ones because she's a geologist.

And she actually gets a lot done in that movie. She goes to City Hall and is proactive and she's holding out against Zoran. And yet still becomes not only a damsel in distress, but a change. Screaming. Yeah, screaming. Screaming. And that is an interesting point because, like, at what point do, does there a capability and proactiveness become just overshadowed by being saved.

I think we talked about this when we talked about Die Another Day, Hallie Berry. I was like, oh, she's awesome. She's very capable. But she does get saved twice. But I don't even think about that because she is so she's always doing things. Yeah, she's not screaming for him that much and fighting with him until the end. That's true. But then is it also, how much is it a problem that on the face of it, like, oh, how do I phrase this? that there is a bond woman or girl who does need saving. And I understand that that's a tired trope these days.

And it's a tired trope in bond. But there are some people that would say, even some women, and I'm more playing devil's advocate because I don't really agree with this. But that's okay too. Women can be saved. But is it because it's overused and almost exploited is really what it is? that that's the problem, right? I think it might be that.

Yeah. I think that it's just, it's in so many of our movies that people get very upset about it, even though it can be fine. I think there are instances in which it could work. You guys saw the it movie, the new it movie. Yeah. So when, um, spoilers for the it movie, people who haven't watched it, which you should. Beverly, the girl character, gets kidnapped by the clown. I'm like taking down to the sewers and all the boys have to come save her.

And that didn't even occur to me that like, oh, it's another instance of a girl being saved. Didn't occur to me at all. And then I saw people blowing up about it. And they were like, loved this movie but hated this bonehead choice where the boys had to save the girl. I didn't get that because literally 20 seconds before the club. Clown grabs her. She's just murdered her attacker and abuser. She's just fought back and overcome something extremely scary to her.

So I think that it can be done as long as you show how capable that character is. But how often does that happen? That brings up another interesting thing in like Quantum of Solace when Camille, she's badass. She's a spy herself or secret service of some kind. and in the end she's left cowering and almost whimpering. They tie it to a backstory, so it's not that she's a weak female. It's that she was nearly burned in a fire, and there she is trapped in a fire. But they do manage to get it in.

And is that them relying on the same old trope but justifying it, updating it in a way? I think so. Yeah. But I have something to add. Yes. About that, I realized something today. So I made just kind of like a top five Bond girls list. Like, oh, these are my top five.

And then I like really thought about it and I changed it around a little bit. Then I started really thinking about the characters that I liked. And I realized something about Natalia's character because she's one of my favorites. I feel like so many Bond girls, you hear their backstory when they are telling it to James Bond. It's like they almost don't even exist until he meets. them. And there's so many of them that you don't even see until he meets them or sees them. And Natalia has a lot of screen time before they even meet. She has a lot, like her own little story and her own little plot until they actually meet. We already know all about her by the time they

meet. I thought that was really interesting. I think she's the least distressed of anyone in the movie. And it's not, they don't wear it on its sleeve. It's just, you're right. Are there any other bond girls that have that kind of arc to them? I can't think of one. Well, you have, in free eyes only, you meet her first. Melina. Melina first. She comes upon her father's boat, right? Yeah, you at least get her origin.

Yes. Her motivation. Yeah, and then I think, hang on. Wow, that is a hell of an observation. I had never thought about that. But I realized that. It kind of blew my mind. Because there really is with their characters. there really is a lot of, like, you know, like, the old writing thing of, like, show, don't tell.

Like, they really just tell it. Yeah, it's almost like to get it out of the way. Then she tells Bond about her terrible past, and then now they're connected. They have a connection. Right. Wait, now it makes me want to try to think if there are any more like that. No. No, the closest, I think the closest fear is all my mind.

That might. Like, think, Honey Rider. you meet her when Bond meets her. So we can just go through it real quick here. Although Tatiana, you see first.

A little bit. Yeah. And it's, yeah, it's not just seeing them first, it's that they have. Yeah,

you get her sort of whole. A story of some kind that thing of what's happened. And I guess that's true for Anya too. Like we kind of see them paralleled

like he's being called into his mission, she's being called. But it's just, but still they're like, yeah, there's a lot. Gold and I can almost be,

Natalia's movie with Bond is a sort of side character sort of like how The Spy Who Love Me novel is Right That's interesting

All right So then Domino She's got a past But again you hear about it Mm-hmm Kissy Suzuki Very detailed back story Yeah that is

One of the least Could not even get that out To develop That is crazy Because they do so much with Aki not so much, but they do enough for a Bond movie. And then she dies and then it's just like they just put Kissy Suzuki in that place.

And then they finished the movie like, oh, we've been always been lovers. I saw an article that was ranking Bond Girls that I think they said that that was their attempt at personality was casting an Asian or something like that. It was super scathing. There was a lot of shade there. Oh, it's like, I can't write a personality for this. character. Let's just make it Asian. Make it diverse. Yeah.

And then Tracy's got a pretty decent arc. Roll doll. Yeah. Tracy's got a pretty decent arc, but it's not, like you say, it's not like... It's good. She's a fleshed out character. Yeah. But still, we don't really see much of it.

Right. You get a little bit. Her dad gives the backstory, right? That's right. Yeah. Tiffany case, no. until Mr. She just,

nothing in that movie has any. She just, she has a horrible backstory in the book. Yes, horrible. Probably the worst of any.

Wow. I agree. Gang raped. Wow. Yeah. That's at it. I thought we were just going to direct it towards the novel.

Well, just direct people will want to know. They're going to want to know. It's worth mentioning. Download the novels on Audible. Use the promo code, Bond.

Well done. I don't know. That's an active promo code. way to monetize the tragedy of a fictional kid. Then Solitaire's decent, but it's not really... Solitaire is like...

She's in it before. Yes. Before she meets Bond, but... But Solitaire's backstory, it trickles out that her mother was also had the gift and lost it and then apparently Cananga blew her up like a balloon. Right. I think that's how people die in that movie.

And that's really all you. you hear back storywise from her. Mary Goodnight is one of the least developed Bond characters. No, it's Mary Goodnight. Mary Goodnight. She's, yeah. Even Mod Adams' character in that movie's further developed than Mary Goodnight.

Yes. And her arm is further twisted. Holly Goodhead. Now, Holly Goodhead is one of those ones where they're like, let's give this character agency solely to stand in for no character or no development. Let's just make her a doctor, but she, it's just so shallow, you know. There's also, well, you know, Mott Adams and Octopus, although you get kind of, Oh, Karamilovian in Living Daylights.

She has that whole thing where she's being blackmailed. Yeah. Oh, yes. Yeah, but she is so, I think in all the ways that Natalia is sort of seem. seemingly self-sufficient. I mean, think about it. And Tali goes in, figures out that she can go into this computer store, get access to a modem, contact Boris.

Yeah, she's good. She might not know exactly what's going on, but she's... She also jumps in the air and punches Boris, which I will never forget. Yeah. That's a great move. Yeah. She just jumps. It's really impressive.

She's also a great actress, too. Like, that role all around. It's amazing what a great actress can do in the role of a Bond Girl. Yeah. So I'm interested in your list. Yes, it is. But then Hallie Barry rolls out. I know.

It's like, what happened? They were like, um, then what happened? Maybe she's not. Maybe to prove you're a great actress. You really have to play a hollow role like most bond girls. I did want to write some sort of letter writing campaign to get her Oscar taken away for her performance in Dinah. Oh.

I think those, I think Oscars should be like living, breathing awards where they can be taken away. You have to maintain. You have to maintain a level of quality. You have to stay good. Yeah. What happens if you? retire. Then we all show up to Daniel Day

Lewis's house and we put all the Oscars in the truck. You can retire, but it has to be strategically. In fact, you may go like, I think my career is slipping. I better get out now while I can and keep my Oscar or it'll be taken away. And you pull a James Coburn, right? And you show up late in life. We know you're on your way out. And you

deliver an Oscar worthy performance. Oh, right. Yeah. And we're all like, wow, what's going on with your hands? They look arthritic. In like Flint. We got to do it. I know. Matt and.

Matt and. James Bonding podcast. Support for today's James Bonding comes from Squarespace. You know what they say about Squarespace, Matt? They say think it, dream it, make it. With Squarespace. Well, what I say about Squarespace is that with beautiful templates created by world-class designers, Squarespace, what I just said about it,

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Mad End, Mad, Mad, Mad, JetModin Podcast. You're studying your list. Your lists. But I can go first. Here are lists of Bond girls? Yeah. But, and here's the thing, it's weird to rank them because, like, what are you ranking them? Yeah, what are, what is your question?

Because I have a completely different list of the ones I think are the prettiest versus the ones I really like. Right. But you're also, Danny, you're talking to two grown men who have ranked the James Bond chests. Like, we've ranked the chests of. You're saying fair is fair. Fair is fair. I'm not saying let's rank their chests. Yes.

Yes. No, no, no. I'm saying that we have ranked Bond's physical attributes along with, I mean, I cannot think of a part of the franchise we haven't dug into really, except for this Bond Girl stuff. Well, I think it would be interesting to kind of note the top five most effective or powerful and then the least effective. Yeah. But also. Because it's okay to point out, like, she was obviously cast because she was obviously cast because she was. gorgeous. I think it's fine to to like see that dynamic of like who was cast because they were great actress and good at action and who was just

amazing looking. Let's talk about those Which is you know a gift. Let's talk about the uggos though, right guys? A couple of uggos in there. I don't. I can't name one. No. One uggo? I can find the ugliest Bond girl, hang on. Oh no. That's so subjective. Why are you

picking up your phone? What database are you going to? Ugly.net? No. I'm sure it exists. Who's the least handsome of the Bonds? For me? I don't know we've ever gone purely aesthetic handsomeness.

We've ranked their chests. I don't find Laysenby attractive, to be honest. I find him good-looking, like he's rugged, but I don't find... Like, I actually do find Roger Moore good-looking, and I find Bresnan good-looking. He doesn't work for me in the way I think Bonds should... And in fact, Laysenby actually works better for Bohn for me, even though I don't find... him pleasing to me guys. I like Lazy's body.

Yes, he is a great body. He's very in shape. I think he, I'm not a huge Lazybee fan, but I think he's good at action. All of his action seems out that we're good. So his body's great. Eh, about his face. Yeah.

Yeah. Not bad. Yeah. All right. What about you, Matt? We're taking George Lazy's body. Whose face are we putting on it? Oh, that's tough.

Think about, I'm just saying, just throw Bros. Bro Brosson's face. I feel like he's more tan than most of them. Yeah. They got to match the tone. Okay, we tan Pierce Brosnan's head. I think Pierce Broson is the most handsome of the bond.

I think he's the most objectively handsome but he's too handsome for me. I'm more of a... I find Dalton, Connery, and Craig are more in my wheelhouse, though I do find Roger Moore he's just so suave. But he's also sweet.

Yeah. Like he's got a sweetness about it. Yeah. It's also like, it's hard for Roger Moore because like we see his transition to full dad bod. It's true. Like we're there. It was fairly there in the beginning after he's, you know, he's doing his knees bend workout.

That books out, right? The Roger Borses Living Let Die Diary is back in publication. Thanks to Phil. I want to hear your list and then Matt and I can try to figure out how we can do it. Oh, wait, did you want to hear our list first? That's what you said, right? Either way. Oh, whatever you want to do, Danny.

Okay, I'll go first. please. Thank you. I'm going to go looks first because I think there's less to say. And then then I'll break down my favorites in terms of character. Okay. So we'll do let's do looks and then we'll, you know, we understand, we'll do it. Yeah. That's what we're going to do. This is, we didn't go into this episode intending to rank, but we have been called to the challenge. And we all understand that they do cast these, like you said, these women for reasons such as this. So they're all beautiful. That's understood.

They're all a James Blunt song. That's true. So looks solely on looks. My number one is Stacy Sutton. Really? Maybe it's just a wishful, like, maybe that's what I would like choose to look like. But also, like, her looks were great for the time period. Like the 80s, her hair is just so perfectly feathered.

And she's got these blue eyes and the makeup. I just, yeah. Wow. I really don't like Stacy Sutton. I think she's a terrible character, but I love to look at her face. Did you say she's number five or number one? She's my number one. Wow.

I just think she's gorgeous. My dad really had it for her because I remember when that movie came out, he'd always be like, oh, Stacey Sutton. Because she was also, I think, famous for having done a centerfold and Playboy. She was on a show. She was on. She was on Charlie's Angels. Yeah.

Later Charlie's Angels. And she was in Beastmaster, right? And she was in She was in She. She was in Beastmaster. She was in the tourist trap. The horror movie, not the comedy. Number one. Stacey Sutton.

She's beautiful. My number two is Electric King. And it really hit me those last time I watched it. Me too. I'm on the podcast last time. She's so beautiful. Yeah, she jumped up in my sister. I know.

The bangs, which is something I've never been quite into. It works on her. Again, the time period. Some of them really work in their time period. Yeah, that's true. I think that some of them are not as timeless in their looks. I think Ursula Andrus is actually pretty classic. Like, she's timeless.

Yeah, agree. Any time period. But yeah, Electric King. Gorgeous. I think Vesperlund, because I think Eva Green is so rare in the way that she looks. She's very pale. Freckley, dark hair. She's got good eyes.

I like that just because she's very different. Yeah. That's interesting that she comes across to you as different. I just see her as my number one. Just beautiful. Yeah, she's, to me, she is. She's gorgeous. Have you seen Penny Dreadful?

I started to watch it, and then for some reason we didn't see through it. I also did that. And then I started it back up. And I'm really glad she is amazing in it. So she's very good. And then I think Domino. Yeah. So pretty.

Yeah. Such a good face. Sweet. I like her looks and then I have to put Honey Rider because she's beautiful

Then I have honorable mention of Christmas Jones because she looks very good Yeah she's almost like the cartoon video game version of beauty

in that sense especially because they're kind of echoing a Tomb Raider thing with her nose structure is impossible well is it

because it's impossible It feels impossible I think that may be it's only possible through certain Listen, I don't know. I don't know. I just, I go in, anytime I watch the movie, I go in being like,

ugh, Christmas Jones. But then I'm just like, wow. Oh, yeah, she's undeniably gorgeous. She's the type of gorgeous that I feel like I don't know, like I wouldn't know what to do. Like, I don't know. I don't know how to process it. It's almost too classically beautiful.

I myself like a little asymmetry. And because I think I feel like, oh, well, that's more. not only real life, but my world and who, who I, I'm asymmetrical and I'm, you know, flawed. We don't come from Denise Richards World guys. No, we don't. No, we don't. I won't rank mine, but I'd say like my top three just for beauty. Well, number one for sure I can rank that is Ava Green.

She is always since Casino Royal been my favorite Bond Girl. She's part of why I love that movie. Just Vesper as a character is so interesting. Solitaire is another one that really does it for me. I think she got better looking with age. Yes. Not that she doesn't look great. She's always aged incredibly well.

But it was interesting to see her so young. Yeah. Tatiana from Rush with Love, I find her just beautiful. I always like Domino, but she also fades in my memory. I can never quite, she looks different to me every time I see. She has one of those faces that I can't quite. Lock on to, yeah. Like, it doesn't stick in my memory.

But then, you know who's really been creeping up in my esteem lately is Olga Karylenko from Quantum of Salas? I watched the death of Stalin on the airplane the other day and she's in that. Oh. And she's just, I guess it's been 10 years since she played that role. Wow. And you wouldn't know it. And not that she's like really looks beautiful. And, yeah.

Yeah, she's very pretty. Yeah. Top three, just... And Mott Adams. Sorry, I forgot Mott Adams. Going just based on aesthetics, on a personal level, I would have to say Barbara Bach is in there for me. This is going to sound crazy, but she's automatically disqualified for me because she looks just like my nephew. I'm not what I was expecting.

This nephew away from me. In fact, while you say this, I'm going to bring up a picture of my nephew. You tell me what you... That's really interesting because I also think she's very pretty. I actually watched the movie last night. And my fiancé was like, I said, oh, she's so pretty. And he was like, is she though? Which I was like, I don't see how you're questioning it.

I think if she's good enough for Ringo, she's good enough for us, guys. But she fits in her movie too in the time period. Yeah. Like, she's great for the 70s. Sure. Aesthetic. Sure. Yeah.

And then I would have to say it probably would be, oh, it's hard because I know my number one. So I'm just like trying to slide someone into the middle here, which is difficult. Who's not number one or two? Who's not number one? Meanwhile, I'm looking for a picture of my nephew. It's Jaws.

You know, Jaws' girlfriend. I was way into. Way into her. That's interesting. And if I could add to her, I would. And then, so, never mind this thing about my nephew. Real number two, I would say, all the pictures are of him currently. I almost don't want to see it because I just want to imagine it.

Just a tiny barbuck running around. Okay. This is kind of it. It's more when he was younger. Oh, I can see it all. The eyes. Yeah, the eyes. Yeah.

Wow. And the, like, skin tone, too. Pets. And the bangs. Very interesting. God, this is hard. I guess Eva Green would be number two. And number one for me is Lana Wood,

aka Plenty O'Toole. Really? Wow. Oh, you know, I met her. I love Pentio tool. I know you've met her. Yeah. I'm very jealous. Those are good choices.

We all have good choices. I didn't know. Good job, us. Okay, so then your next list is... Oh, this is just my favorite. character-wise. And I really, as I went to write them down, they sat down to write them down,

I really thought all five were going to be badass who have punched someone or killed someone in their movies, who were like the smartest, and it actually did not turn out to be that way when I got down to it. Oh, honorable mention for Kim Basinger. Oh, wow. That's a good...

Do you guys count that? Do you guys... No, no, we always call it honorable mention. Yeah, just a little... With an asterisk, I guess. Who is it? the baseball player that has to have an ask Chris by his name because he did something wrong. You're thinking of, remarkably, you're thinking of Roger Maris hitting 62 home runs.

Whatever. Because the season was longer than Babe Ruth's 61 home run season. I don't know. That's what you're somehow thinking of. I know, I know just enough to bring it up. It's crazy. All right. Well, now we know.

Yeah. So, Natalia is the top. And I came to that conclusion after realizing that about her story, how there is so much there. So this is character. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, good. Favorite as in like when I watched this movie when I was younger, I wanted to be them.

I think they're pretty. I think they're awesome. I like their characters. So Natalia is really high up for me. Love Vesper. I don't think I have to say anything else. She's amazing. Tracy.

Yeah. Kara, actually, or Kara? Is it Kara or Kara? I think it's Kara. Yeah. That one That one crept up on me But I think

I like this She's More innocent than a lot of bond girls And she's really cute Yeah she's interesting Because she kind of spends the whole movie As a damn soul in distress But it doesn't feel super cheap

It feels kind of real That's what I was trying to get at Like there are people That fall into that category Men and women And that is one that feels like Yeah It's believable

She's not a spy or an agent or a pilot. She's just... She's a cellist. She's just this girl. And so I think that really struck me when, especially when I saw that movie the first time, was desperately falling in love with Timothy Dalton. And then this cute Bond girl came along that was like closer to me physically and personality-wise than all these like sultry, like fantasy goddesses. So I love Kara.

She's cute. And then the last. one was hard because I want to say Michelle Yao because she's amazing she's a badass. Way Lynn. We all know, everyone. She helps to make sure that Carver doesn't get broadcast

rights in China for 100 years. But that one is a split between her and I kind of think that Pam Bouvier doesn't get enough credit. I'm with you on that. I understand why she's not at any lists of most memorable

or hottest. Like I get it why she's kind of just like middle ground but she's a badass. She fucking drives a semi truck and a plane. She's good with a shotgun.

Can you drive a plane? She's a pilot. Yes, she does. Oh, I love her. And she's drinking beer. Like when he meets her for the first time she's just drinking beer with a shotgun on her lap

under the table. She's cool. Yeah. If she has any fault, it's only in that her writing is a little simple. But what she's doing in that movie.

She yells at him. She straight up yells at James Bonding to his face, which I don't think you see as much. You just get Christmas Jones whining at him. Yeah, I'm with you on that. I like her a lot. So you're a British spy.

Do you have a name? That is the line I was thinking of. But yeah, so that's my list just in terms of favorite characters. And I realize it's not the most badass ones, it's kind of, they all have like a really good, like, romantic connection with him. Whereas some of them, they're there and it's like, well, now you guys are hooking up because you're both there and you're hot.

But that's literally the only reason. So I realize. That's what you do. I don't know for a fact. I don't know because I'm not super hot, you know, the level of these bond peoples. But I'm certain that when you get too attractive. active spy slash dangerous situations together

they're going to the bone zone it's true so it's not that it's unrealistic it's just that I don't care about their connection yeah I'm with you I think you're the most realistic part of bond movies but that's the uh that's the women want to sleep with him no that they're both like well we're so attractive

we would be doing the world of disservice if we didn't fuck and at least try to make a baby that's the trick though you know that's going to happen so if they can build at least some structure around that to make it a interesting and be justified that's when it works the best and and that was another reason why I love quantum of solace is that I don't feel like they don't hook up so that the writers can go like we fooled you we twisted you they don't make a big deal out of it it just simply

doesn't happen yeah that is a real anomaly for those movies yeah but it's also proper for the story yeah exactly it works for a story yeah I wasn't and I love skyfall I really do, but I wasn't so sure that their hookup was that necessary. Moneypenny or the Severin? Severin. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, wait, do you think they hookup?

You get a nice shower. Money penny? Shower scene. Yeah. But that seemed like unnecessary to this time. Yeah. Well, to answer your question really quickly, no, I don't necessarily, but I know that it seems like the film is trying to leave it slightly ambiguous.

But for Severin, I'm with you. In fact, there's been some stuff I've seen written about that. that it's really problematic that he just shows up in her shower. Can I just say? Yeah. When I go to the movies with my fiancé, which is all the time, and he runs to the bathroom and I'm just hanging out, he'll come up to me and put his hand on me from behind,

and I freak the fuck out. And I can't explain to him how not cool that is. And he's like, why is it such a big deal? Because it's scary. I'm in public and someone's touching me. So yes, it is, that's something I noticed. I know you're 12 days away from getting married, but you're sure you want to walk down the aisle with the guy who can't understand

not to touch you from behind in the dark in a public place? He doesn't do it now. Does he do it to mess with you or he does it to like provide like, I'm here? It's that. Yeah. And I'm like, that's really nice. But do it from like coming to my eyeline and then put your hand on my shoulder. That's great.

I mean, the hardest thing for a human to do is to spot another human being in a movie theater. That's true. Whenever we're trying to go back to our seats, it's impossible. That's true. I just never walked up to someone that I'm about to greet from behind. Me either, because I'm very sensitive to that. I'm a very excitable boy. I get startled very easily.

Any little noise in him. Yeah. So, yeah, yes, that shower scene is weird. She's showering. It's great. It's fine. She looks great. And then he just goes in there.

Yeah. And that is weird. Yeah. Was she like, oh, yeah. Get in here. Right. I think she was probably terrified at first because she has a... But there's guys on that boat.

Uh-huh. There are men working on that boat, right? Driving the boat, crewing the... He must have sneaked on. So, but that, but like, how does she know it's bond? Oh, right, right. Those random guys, that's my question. Oh, she doesn't.

I think it's not a great way to make an entrance. But is it also, do you think it's a short sight of the filmmakers that they're just like, let's shortcut to the sexy and or is it a comment that she's a second? worker and she has to endure this kind of stuff from not only Silva but these men and has to willingly give herself. Am I reading too much into this? You are reading too much into it. Yeah. I don't think they cared that much. Yeah. I think they were like, what's going to look really sexy right now? Yeah, steamy. What kind of product placement can be? You know what? He should have done. They should have had Daniel Craig walk up to the steamy glass and then put a little heart in the steam.

Oh, I think just balls in a dick. I mean, that gets the point of Cross. And then he walks up with a question mark. And drops the soap. And then she has to answer why or N. That's what he should have done. And everyone would have gone, oh, man, Daniel Craig's Bond is so funny. All right.

Let's run down our favorite character Bond Girls, Matt. I think it's always going to be Tracy for me. For me, it's Vesper again because I just find her story very tragic. And maybe the deepest character of any of them for me. Even Tracy and Natalia, I find her to have the most conflict, internal conflict, structure. There is a lot. It's very hard to put a finger on what it is I don't fully, I don't ever fully sympathize with Vesper's character. That's what I like.

You may not because she's flawed. She's done, she's betrayed Bond. So that's what I love about her. she's not just a girl who's like gives herself willingly and then loses her character the minute she gives over to bond. That's part of a prop, one of the small problems with Bouvier, Pam Bouvier is she's so badass in calling the shots. And then the minute they sleep together on that boat, she's just kind of like under his spell.

Yeah. Yeah. That's the power of a handsome man, apparently. I know, Dalton, that cleft chin in the hairy chest. So yours is Tracy. Yeah, I think so. Mine's Vesper, but then the other, I like Camille. Camille's great.

I like Tracy, too, a lot. I think Natalia's a great answer. Natalia's great. I mean, but we seem to like ones to have a, like, like a real romance rather than just sleeping. You know, Pussy Galore. I was going to say Pussy Glor. There's the problematic thing where she just gives into him again.

Of course, kissing, as we've discussed, on this podcast. It's, you know, it's the roll in the hay. Right. Literal hay. Yeah. But it's also, you know, she has a flying circus. Why are all, all the powerful ladies in this movie seem to have a circus. I know. Yeah, octopussy.

Hmm. Oh, two of them. Okay. Yeah, so, I mean, and I do, I like Way Lynn, but it's also like, I think I find Way Lynn's character to be such a one-dimensional character. in the sense of I find Bond's character to be one-dimensional. Yeah, they're kind of really

counterparts in that movie. But that's that movie's fault because they're giving her all the power they can in that movie, which is... She's a good actress, and she's great at action. But yeah, the character, not so much.

And I don't think their chemistry is great in that movie. I'm not feeling it between those two. I get that. I feel it between... What's her name? Terry Hatcher. Yeah. Paris.

All right, let's talk. Carver. Worst or at least most ill-conceived bond girls or least effective in terms of... Well, then are we going by, like, least screen time? No, no. I mean, like... Like worst portrayals of women?

Then, yeah. Yeah, like... Oh, well, that's an entirely different thing, too. That's an entirely different question also. But that's a good one. I think that's a good one. Hmm. But I think the worst, for me, like, if I think back to the franchise is,

whole. I honestly and begrudgingly, sadly, have to throw like a lot of the Pierce Brosnan era women into that. Specifically. Specifically, Denise Crosby. Denise Crosby? I mean not Crosby. Sorry, thinking of doing Star Trek next conversation. Denise Richards. Yeah. Not Tasha Yarr. I think most people would make the argument that Christmas Jones is one of the worst bond girls there is. And that's remarkable coming this late in the franchise. You'd think they would have learned to think. Again, I don't, I will say this a thousand times over. It's not her fault.

That dialogue is impossible. No, but she's also not helping. No, but that dialogue's impossible. She could have been helped by better dialogue. You could have put Judy Dench in that role. She could have been helped by better acting, no, too. That's true. But I think that there's, let's think of an example.

There are probably some bond girls in there with, horrible dialogue that actually elevated that dialogue. Well, you know, I think Tiffany Case's dialogue is crazy, but she does a great job with it. She does do a certain thing. You know what I mean? You just kill James Bond.

Oh my God. But she's like playing it in this like... She's fun. Yeah, she's fun. There's a fun camp that she brings to her. She's charismatic enough to where you like the character. I also find her very physically fetching.

Uh, yeah. I like her little, like, She's like got bikini bottoms and then the top Yeah Like wraps around Sure Looks great Yes

How do we feel about Madeline Swan from Specter She's kind of almost a I think it's like She's like Vesper light in a way I only watched it once Just because If I had the time I was going to watch something else Yeah

Like I didn't think it was bad But I didn't think it was great So Eh She to me someone whose character in a modern sense could have been written better, but I think Leah C-Dood does a really good job.

I liked her a lot. I'll have to watch it again. Mary Goodnight. What? Okay, yeah. She's up there. She might be. As a bad. She does nothing. She does nothing but actively clots around and hinder the thing.

She does nothing but sit on the plot device. Yeah. Yeah. I would take that as one of the worst. Rosie Carver's rough to Rosie Carver Oh right Rosie Carver from Living and Die I was thinking of

If your name's Carver You have to be related To Jonathan Price's character Elliot Carver Why would they Why were they used A lot of Carvers I know

What are Why? Domino's good Miranda Frost is Good Is Domino's an interesting Like

Proto version Of the effective Bond Girl that You know Because she kills Largo At the end but she's otherwise just kind of passive. But then she's kind of

has to take the Geiger counter on the ship and gets enlisted into it and then pays the price. Yeah, she's an interesting sort of early Bond girl that gets involved. I think the fact that she kills him and also with a harpoon gun is, it does a lot.

It does. For what you remember about the character. That's right. Yeah. She holds a seat hurdle. What? She holds us E-Termal. It's pretty cool.

Yeah. We should also name our favorite bond, like, female henchman type, like, Onatop and Fiona Volpe. That's a really good idea. Helga Brand. Helga-Brand. Mayday. Hensman. As Rosa Club, a henchman or a villain.

Well, we went through this. We went through it that she, we arrived that she was a villain because she's ultimately, concocting the plan and Red Grant is really just a thug Okay And it's hard It's interesting about that situation too Is that it's the opposite trope

We're like You've dispatched the villain of the movie Yeah And then the henchman comes back But in reality you've dispatched the henchman And then the villain is still there Yes Yeah

And that was sort of the That's the sort of outlier of the Rosa Club I agree Who is your favorite female Like kind of baddie? Bad guy? And I wouldn't

put Electra in there because she's just great. She's a villain. She's already a villain. Like she's the villain. But she's also like villain slash romantic. Yeah. But I mean like a Mayday and on a top. Miranda Frost maybe. Miranda Frost is one. What were the others we just named him?

Fiona Volpe. Let's just go over Miranda Foster's character for half a second. Because she genuinely is a person who all she cared about was winning a gold medal in Sydney. That's true. It's all she cares. She's a She's a perfect example, though, of a badly written part that is elevated by the actress.

That's true. Like, if Miranda Frost was playing Christmas Jones, it would, that's what I'm saying. Like, Denise Richards doesn't do that part any favors, where Rosman Pike does that part a lot of favors. Don't you think? Yeah, no. Yeah. Well, I don't. I think a lot of the goofy dialogue about Miranda is delivered by other characters.

Do you know what I mean? I know, but she's just a better. I like her. Just no question. It might just be because of Rosamund Pike. But when I think of that character, I think, oh, I love that character. Yeah, you too. She's cool.

She's gorgeous. Maybe the best thing about that movie. She's cool. She can fence. Yeah, I don't understand her plane crashing fencing outfit. Well, speaking of that, I was... It's weird. I was just in Washington, D.C., and I went to the National Spy Museum, and that costume is there,

and they have the art of war with the knife in it. She must be tiny. It is just the littlest thing. I saw so many amazing props. I took a bunch of pictures of him. He disagreed with something that ate him. Yep. Note is there.

Oh, my God. The octopus and yo-yo. Yeah. Oh, there's so many good props. That's cool. Oh, you have to. You die. The miniature Aston Martin from Sky Falls there too.

Oh, really? As well as a full-size Aston Martin. And also Zau's green car. from Die Another Day. Thank God. It's a Jaguar, Brow. Whatever it is. It's a Jaguar X-K-R.

They used to be at the Peterson out of museum. Oh, right. They had the Aston Martin Vantage. Sorry. Is it a Vantage? No. What is it?

Vanquish. Sorry, the As-Martin'Rourg. We call it the Vanquish. We call it the V-K-R-they-in-Mobile. They're all V-Names. And then the X-K-R, they had them at the Peterson Museum, like, facing each other as though they were in a... They have so many good things.

They're the Fabriz. Jag from Octopus The sheafs The valuer tux Wait I took some pictures Something that Matt's Mickelson touched I know it's behind glass Have we discussed this sort of

This hypothetical I'm sorry I just turned my flashlight on Have we discussed the hypothetical Of like if you could have a prop From a Bond movie what would it be? I think so but it probably changes It changes so much But it's just like it's such an interesting question

And I'm saying like well take Walther PPPs Aside Yeah And P99s And PPSs All the Walters are gone And

You know I think you have to take out the cars So you take out the cars You take out the Walters Yeah we have done this And I'm trying to remember what I chose What is it this week for us I think for me

I always like the briefcase The briefcase from Russia with Love Is a very good choice Well here's some things to remind you First of all here is the miniature Aston Martin Here is the ball beating rope from Casino Royal.

Wow. Oh my God. That alone I might take. It touched balls. I touched balls. Here's the binder with Yusuf's fish chewed face from Quantum of Salas,

the picture. Okay. Oh, wow. Here is... Leshefs inhaler. Wow. I want that. I want that.

Yeah, that's the one. Yeah. That might be the one. You want to like have his kissing DNA on. Yeah, maybe. Here's his tucks from... Oh, wow. Here's Fabergette egg.

Oh, that's the side view mirror from the Pimpmobile in Live and Let Down. Wow. Come on. That's great. Incredible. Here's, oh, here's the shark bullet that gives us the worst moment ever in James Bond, undisputed by the T-shirt sales. Here's the heart carrier in Living Daylights, they handle like eggs. Jaws' teeth.

Nice. Would you take that as a problem? I mean, that's pretty iconic. That's high up there. Yeah. You could put it in your mouth. I can't get over how they could not make that comfortable for him. I know.

Well, when you see it, you can tell it really is molded to his face. Here's the Moon Raker white laser guns, which I never realized if you look closely, are molds of oozy's with a bunch of shit just tacked on them. Well. Just throw some stuff on him. Here's he disagreed with something that ate him. That's a good one. That's fantastic.

Saw Yo-Yo Blade from my hip-lose. The gray. of Teresa Bond and for your eyes only. Wow. That's awesome. I know. Who owns that? This is the most amazing thing.

It's not a prop, but I want it so bad and I want it for this house. James Bond wallpaper. Well, why don't you have? I don't know. That needs to be on these walls. I know. Like a year in like 1966. I know, but now that I think of it, because our wallpaper in that little lounge was something

we made and had printed. Now I should make a James Bond. But then where are you going to put that? I think all over the entire house. Who do you think that was originally marketed to? The boys, little boys in their rooms, because I had Star Wars and Cowboys and Indian wallpaper. Anyway, enough about little boys.

Let's talk about women. That was great. You know, something that is interesting, speaking of things that you want from the movies, is I'm definitely a collector and will buy things related, like even distantly related movies. There's not a lot of female centric bond merchandise. You're right. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And even if you were like, like, you know, all these watches and shoes we talk about on here. I'm not going to wear a watch. Yeah. And you don't get a lot of like blogging about what those elements are. The one thing I remember in Casino Royale, they sold that Algerian love knot as a necklace.

And I remember for my girlfriend at the time going like, would you ever like that? And before I could even finish, he went, no. No. It is a very specific kind of design. It's not even my favorite design of a piece of jewelry, but if I had that, I would wear it just because of that. I don't like that it's gold and silver mixed. I really don't.

I think it is every, like, if you go to, like, buy one, all of the ones I see are gold and silver mixed. Interesting. But it doesn't really show on screen as much. I wonder if that's even a real thing. say that the website I often frequent bond lifestyle.com there, they will let you know everything. For instance, if you want to know what kind of sunglasses, Moneypenny was wearing, you can buy those. I should look into that.

So what I'm saying is I want to open your eyes to this whole other world of Bond lady-centric memorabilia you can purchase. That is not memorabilia, it's just products that are placed in there so that the budget is less. You have Skyfall nail polish. Which is what? It's like three little mini nail polishes and it's got Severin on the package and they're all named after like things from the movie. Oh my God. I was very excited for that. Yeah, there's actually been some.

Like there's the Avon did like a Bond Girl perfume. I got it. It smells terrible. But like they had a strawberry fields. They had, um, what's her face? Jammer Archerton? Yeah. She was like the face of the Bond Girl perfume from Avon.

So it's almost like with Craig's era, I think they started to kind of like, let's see if we can get more women to watch the movies. Well, for instance, here's one. Here's a, here's one for you. I bet you're wondering what kind of voice recorder Madeline Swans talking into in her office. Oh, I need it. Oh, my God. You can get yourself a Sony ICD SX-160 gigabyte voice recorder for 424424. $5 right now. Sony's voice recorder for her.

Swan is talking into the recorder when James Bond enters her office at the Hoffner. With softer press buttons and a velour mesh speaker screen. It operates at just the right frequencies for a woman's voice. Oh, man. Are you a lady? Do you speak? So is Christmas Jones probably bottom of our list? for or top of our list for the worst or are there others?

Mary Goodnight's up there for me. Mary Goodnight is, you know, I find her to be so problematic just as a whole. It's such a weird, it's a weird relationship they have. I almost think it would have been funnier if it was like a young man agent that like he was saddled with like a 19 year old kid with like. Bumbling about. Like someone Ben Wischaw's age? Or like a 60 year old woman, you know.

Who had changed careers late in life? Yeah. Hmm. I get that. And to that point, why does Bond always have to be rescuing a woman? Exactly. I get that you, like, you want to make him heroic and save people. I want to see that.

But, like, what if it's a family? What if it's a dog? I will say at least every once in a while, Superman would save Jimmy Olson. Mm-hmm. Well, let's talk about the times that Bondi's, has been saved by his bond girls because it has happened vespers saves him she gets the little defibrillator in she also saves his life he doesn't know it in the torture after the torture scene right she's the one that allows them allows him to go free yeah uh does camille save

life who what other women same pam pretty sure pam i mean she shoots she should a hole in the wall of the bar. She's at least instrumental. So he can get away. And she dumps that crop dust stuff on all those guys. Oh, Domino saves Bond from Largo. That's true. With a harpoon gun.

Yeah. And Melina Havilox saves Bond. Does Hally Berry save him at all? Does Hally Barry save him? She gets saved from lasers and ice. Ice drowning, I'll call it. I'm just realizing something about For Your Eyes only. Remember the whole thing at the end is like

Because when you set it Yeah you'll dig two graves instead of one if you go for revenge right So they kind of make this big deal where she doesn't have to shoot Yeah The bad guy at the end because Colombo throws a knife But she also just straight up crossbows a couple people in the beginning of the movie Like that's part of her revenge thing She's already done it

Expendable people. Wow, yeah that's interesting But she saves Bond At least once in that beginning thing She shoots a guy that's when she takes off her mosquito net hat after the reveal. She's one that sleeps kind of gets under my radar. She's pretty good. I don't think of her often.

Yeah, me neither. But she could have been on the prettiest list. Yeah, and of the more effective ones too. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And would you guys say that pound for pound, the Craig Arabon girls are probably the best, like just as a whole?

Like if you're taking each bond section of bond girls I think, you know, there's... Or Lays and B's, he's got it easy because he's just... I don't think he has any that suck. Yeah. So that's good. Yeah. It's good news.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't... In a way, I sort of buy the Madeline Swan of it all. Like I buy that relationship towards the end of the movie. In a way, I don't know how... how earned it is actually, but like, you know, she seems like a reasonable, like I buy the whole like,

you fall for your father kind of thing. So she's like, oh. Sorry, did I interrupt you? I was just going to say, if we're talking about worst, BB, is pretty terrible. Yeah. But like there's counting her. Yeah. I think so. She's an outlier, but like she features. She's terrible. Yeah. She's They're really, I can't think of anything that's good about that character or performance. I'm with you. Yeah, it's another one that is the perfect storm of probably bad character and not a great performance. She was probably cast more for her ice skating and skiing. But how necessary was that?

Yeah. I would say, kind of to vary. Okay. I will reassess. Oh, James. Danny, is there anything else we should cover in notes or anything like that? I mean, I think we've covered it. It's, it's so interesting to, I think it's completely okay to love this franchise,

despite very problematic things with women. Just because some of it is a product of the time. It's not like they were the only films. there who didn't really do any favors for women. Or humans. Yes. So, yeah, I just, I'm a fan. And I totally get when people want to fight about it.

Yeah, it's an interesting topic. But, yeah, I think there's some good stuff. It's interesting because some people do really, they, especially if they came into the franchise late, watch it and aren't able to separate. I want those people to understand that people like us, we're not watching this and accepting these movies as justifying this behavior. We are able to divorce the things that are problematic and understand that they are not good and still enjoy the franchise

and it's not endorsing or condoning any of that. It is a fascinating topic and Bond is at the core of it because even itself it's still evolving, especially through Craig's era. And now, maybe this is something we could wrap up on too, that all signs point to the next Bond movie being something to do with this topic. And the fact that they're eyeing Helen and Bonham Carter

as not only one of the Bond girls, but the villain it looks like. I wonder what that could be. Any speculation? Like, what's going on there, I wonder? He saves her from Burton. purely a danzel in distress the entire time. It's also worth noting she's 52, and she will likely be featured as a,

a, I think even though she's a villain, I think she will be like an electra type where it's like probably someone Bond is having romance with in some way, I would think, knowing Danny Boyle, he's probably going to play things closer to what they would be in real life.

How old is Craig now? He's 51, 52. I don't even know. Yeah. He's in there. I don't know. It's fascinating. I'm curious to see what they will do.

I'm excited for Danny Boyle just because, you know, however it turns out, I don't think it's going to be boring. And again, there are terrible bond movies that I watch because they're not boring. Yeah, same. Same. I think it's probably good. Yeah. Yeah.

Matt, do you have any? predictions? I'm cautiously optimistic. Yeah. You know, I just, I'm waiting to see what these product high ends are guys. Well, what if it's, uh, you know, the Sony for her personal recorder? Well, I might be back in, but now Sony's not distributing internationally. Oh, that's the other thing. Yeah, universal. Now it's going to be a lot of, I guess he's going to be watching Comcast. All day. Universal. It's all going to be, I mean, what is it going to be really? NBC. He's going to be watching 30 Rock. Like, is he going to be like, is his house not going to be adorn with the, like, Frankenstein, the wolfman and Dracula?

It's like, wow. He just loves those universal monsters. Like, they're determined to make this universal work. They're going to cross Fasten the Furious with Bond. Oh. Oh, that would be the worst. 10 out of 10 would watch. Okay.

Oh, I get not liking them. Both of you, I understand. I understand. I can't. I mean, I haven't really. watched them so I can't really. Yeah, me either. Here's what I say.

My defense of the Fast and Furies franchise, it knows what it is. And it never tries to be something it's not. That can go a long way. Ever for every one of the movies, there aren't any that were off. Skip. Tokyo drag.

Skip one, two, three. Okay. Well, that sounds like, it's honestly, it's like five, six, seven, eight. Honestly, once the rock shows up. That's what's doing it for you. Where it gets there? I would start with the rock.

Yeah. Okay. But I have to say, the movies at some point just became self-aware. And we always worried about that. What would happen if something became self-aware? Right. It can work. It actually worked out for us.

Skynet. Nice. Danny, thank you so much for joining us again. Thank you for having me. We'll have you back again so long as you're willing. Yeah. Congratulations. I don't have anyone else to talk to about Bond.

Yeah. Well, you always have us. You're in good company. Good. And next time we hear from you, you will be a Mrs. Danny Price with all the broadcasting rights of China. So 100 years of broadcast rights. And that means James Bonding will return.

His Bonding podcast.