James Bonding - Vesper's Dilemma Crossover Episode With The Big Ones

Episode Date: January 31, 2024

Guest favorites Amanda Lund and Maria Blasucci join the Matts for James Bonding, or do the Matts join them for The Big Ones? Either way, it's the podcast crossover event of the century and it's all about Vesper Lynd's moral dilemma in Casino Royale. And there's also a little bit of Nick Nack. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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and get 20% off. All you have to do is use the promo code bonding. That's macwellden.com and get 20% off. What's that promo code, Matt? Bonding! Hey, let us tell you about an amazing podcast from Stitcher called Dear Franklin Jones. Growing up, reporter Jonathan Hirsch's family was a little different. They followed a controversial spiritual leader named Franklin Jones. To Jonathan's parents, Franklin Jones was a god, but to people outside the group, he was a cult leader. Can he not be both? Join Jonathan on a journey to find out what really happened and whether the group really did become a cult.

You can binge all the episodes now before the season finale airs this week. You can listen to all seven episodes of Dear Franklin Jones, In Stitcher, Apple, podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Franklin Jones commands you. Matt End! Mad End! James Bonding Podcast! Hello listeners, this is a very special episode of James Bonding

because we're doing a crossover episodes with past guest favorites, Maria Blasucci, and Amanda Lund. This is their show called The Big Ones, and they had us on to discuss a huge moral dilemma of the James Bond universe, Ves Berlin's dilemma from Casino Royale. So it will be here in this feed. Also, go to their feed at The Big Ones. Subscribe and enjoy. Yeah, and you'll get it without this intro.

So two versions. It's like, it's really fascinating how we did this. I'm really impressed by all of us. Enjoy. Hi, this is The Big Ones. And I'm Maria Blasucci. And I'm Amanda Lund. Each week, we discuss new moral,

dilemmas, ranging from historical decisions to relationship problems to brain busting moral questions. The questions can be confusing, but they are always fun to talk about because they force you to look deep, deep, deep with inside yourself. Will you like what you see, Matt Gorley and Matt Myra? With inside yourself? I love it. And we have to say just for our James Bonding listeners who are new to the big ones, Maria messes up the intro every time. So it's a real. But I think I did it pretty well this time. I think so too, but I don't know how well you sold it to people who are just listening to the podcast for the first time. It sounded like I was trying to get. Each week we discussed new moral, moral dilemmas ranging from relationship problems. No,

see, it just is too much. Can you do it and like sell it like to get people's attention? Hi. Hi. Hi. That had a shoulder shrug. Oh, hey. Welcome to the big ones. Each week we discuss new ethical questions, ranging from historical dilemmas to relationship problems, even a brainbusting moral question. Wow, it's so casual. You're doing this intro like you're the bartender and who frame Rodney? Eddie Valiant. Well, I mean, I'm selling it, but who cares?

You know, that's my, it's come on in and have a seat, but you know, no pressure. This is casual Saturday morning podcast. Yeah, that's so true. Well, thanks, boys, for being on. We're having us. We're super glad to be here. to all the James Bonding listeners that are listening in,

we have been James Bonding fans since the beginning of time and we've been listeners and guests on James Bonding, and we're just so happy to have you guys now on the, we've turned to the table literally, and we're sitting around a table whose legs are straight up in the ceiling.

So thanks. Yeah, thanks for having us. It's nice for us to come on your podcast. for once and I hope this crossover is the first of many to come. It's really exciting for Matt and I to talk about moral, morality. Especially through the filter of James Bond. Well, because James Bond seems to be a character that has little actual morals. Yeah.

I think that's true. And I feel like, you know, but there is a line even for him that he will not cross. And that line is what? To kill children? Ah, okay. Yeah, there it is. Yeah, you can't kill kids. Well, it depends on the era of theory.

Does he ever kill good people? No. There is collateral damage, of course, that happens. But I think he kills naughty people. He's the perfect guy for the job. He's the perfect guy for the job because he knows the task at hand. He's got, he sees black and white. Like, it's good and it's bad.

If it's bad, he doesn't look at the nuance and he doesn't go like, well, but maybe they had a rough childhood. He just goes, they're bad right now. They got to die. Yeah. You know? And so he's the perfect guy for the job. You know, Amanda, you'd like him because he doesn't try it by loopholes. Oh, I like that.

I really do. And he's also not a slave to his government. So he's not going to do something just because Dame Judy Dench tells him to. Right. You know, and I do appreciate someone who's an independent thinker because I think, you know, being a follower can be bad for morality. I love the thought that maybe Dame Judy Dench and not M is the one kind of like saying, Hey, Bon, can you get this done for you?

I don't know if you know this, but once you're knighted as an actor or actor. in the United Kingdom, you are actually given a secret agent at your disposal. Wouldn't that be nice? Like Sir Patrick Stewart right now probably has some guy out doing some errand for him. Yeah. That's so nice. Yeah, because he can use that as, he can use the guy as a spy or just as a personal assistant. Yeah, totally, 100%.

We need something like that in the States. Yeah, we need a feudal system. There's not enough of a class delineation here in the United States. I think we need to really give us all titles. What would they call us if they did, if they? Republicans. Or just, yeah. I guess Senator.

Yeah, Senator. Senator Maria. Senator Maria Valsucci. Well, we like to start each episode by asking our guests if they have any sort of little big one, some sort of small moral dilemma they've been dealing with in their own minds. But since this is a special James Bond episode, why don't we talk about one of James Bond's little dilemmas? Well, this is literally a little dilemma.

Okay. Interesting. Okay. And in the film, the Man with the Golden God. gun, he kills the main villain and his henchman still survives at the last part of the film and attacks him and tries to kill Bond. But his henchman is Hervey Villages, who's knick-knack, and he's a little person. So Bond has probably every right. And in every other movie, he would kill the henchman. And that would be the last scene of the film. It often ends with

the henchmen getting killed after the main villain. He doesn't kill Hervey Villages, presumably because he's, like, we sympathize with him because he has, he's a little person or something. I don't know. But he puts him in a suitcase and then, like, puts him in a net up in the crow's nest of this Chinese junk ship. So should he be able to kill Hervey Villages or does it look weird for him to kill a little person? Wow, what looks weird or putting him in a suitcase? I think that's public humiliation, which in some ways is worse. This is interesting because it's like, is it okay for, because Bond kills women and stuff.

He has on occasion. And yeah, is it more in a way bigoted for him not to kill him? That's interesting. Well, let me ask you this. Where's that junk boat going and will he ever get out of that suitcase? He's out of the suitcase. He just uses the suitcase to get him up in the crows next. Yeah, so he uses the suitcase essentially and off screen at some point.

James Bond climbs the crow's nest holding a suitcase with a human being in it presumably a struggling human being who's probably knocking the balance of the suitcase off so it's very dangerous

and James Bond's like climbing the crow's nest of this ship it's like a tall mast and he probably just opens up the suitcase and like dumps Harvey Villashe's into the net Oh but you think he does that

you don't think he just puts the suitcase up there No he doesn't we see because we see Hervey out of the net out of the suitcase up in the trapped in the crow's nest. Presumably, if the ship is going to be at sea for a couple of days before it reaches mainland, he may dehydrate. He obviously doesn't have access to food or water. And I think it would be a slow, painful, and humiliating death.

Yeah. Where a very angry Frenchman is yelling down at you constantly. I'm bringing it up on the video here. So if you get a chance, it's probably on YouTube, the final scene of Man with the Golden Gun. Yes. It's just a long crane shot. That ship is setting sail for where we know not. Okay, there he is.

Yeah, that's not so bad because he's got getting fresh air and someone will cut him down. He looks relaxed. He looks like he's finally got a moment to himself because I don't know what he did throughout the rest of the movie. Yeah, sure. It's kind of like... Well, he created mayhem and tried to kill Bond multiple times. He did. Okay, so this is, to me, when you really boil down this moral dilemma,

it's that is it ethical, even if someone is evil, is it ethical to kill someone when they're not your physical match? Right, right. Yeah, that's a better way to put it. I mean, it's one thing if, um, what's his character's name? Nickknack. Nickknack had a gun and Bond wanted to, you know, shot him before he got shot. But is it ethical if they were just going, um, mono e mono, you know, even though this guy's naughty.

Nick neck does have a series of weapons. He's throw, no, he's throwing, yeah, he does have a knife in his teeth, but he He's throwing wine bottle and champagne bottles. Oh, so he's a thrower. I think it's... Oh, he's a thrower. I think it's immoral for Bond to put knick-knack in the net because I think out of respect for Nicknack

as a villain, Bond should have killed him. Because this is making fun of him and publicly... I don't understand. How did he get out... When did he get put in the suitcase and when did he get out of the suitcase? We don't see it. It happens off screen. So it ends with him getting him in the...

suitcase and then it just cuts to them in bed like the day has been one and then it's a long crane shot that shows knickknack in the crows nest and then it like pans out but we don't see him put him in the crows nest so you think knickknack may have put himself in the yes no well what i don't understand he's in like a little wicker cage but i don't understand how you're thinking matt you said that you think that he took the luggage up to the crows nest dumped him out no he don't think no he put him in wicker cage and then like hoisted him up bond doesn't do that stuff he's too busy i know what bond did he had him in the suitcase he gave him to someone working on the ship no there's no one else on the ship it's only well then nicknack got out and i'm telling you he is taking time for himself up there yes he is no so do you think

do you think it's more of like he would try to kill bond again if he got free oh my gosh i know what's going on so who knows where that ship is going to end up nicknack put himself out there to make it seem like he's been captured and he's a victim. So that one of you guys, you Matt Gourley, are going to go get him because you're going to feel bad. He's already been captured. And if he gets out again, he's going to try to kill Bond again. He's really pissed because Bond killed his master and blew up the island that he was supposed

to inherit. So does Nicknack have mental capabilities? He's fine mentally. Okay. Then he should have been killed. I don't get it. I don't get it. What do we see Bond do?

We see him put him in a suitcase. Yeah. But then there's passage of time. Okay, but what's the last shot? What's the last shot? He's in a wicker cage. Yeah, Bond and him together. Yeah, Bond and him together.

Is him closing the suitcase. And then that's it. And next thing we see. Yep, him in the crow's nest. Yep. I'm telling you. Well, who's driving the ship? No, there's a little thing where the woman bonds with goes,

oh, you're not going to, like, you're not going to throw him overboard. And you're kind of like, are they going to, is he going to kill him? And then it cuts like almost like the reveal that he's put him in. in this wicker cage. Okay, well, I, uh-uh.

But I think there's actually an element of the time in this, because in the 70s, it would have seemed more humanitarian to not kill him. But these days, it is a little like, uh, what's the word, like, able-less, yeah, to say, like, we have to, I think maybe, I don't know, but maybe would some little people find, as much of a threat as any other engine? Would some little people find, take offense that he wasn't killed like any other person? Maybe I'm, maybe I would because I'd be like, hey, why, why am I the exception? Yeah, that would be weird to me, I guess, that I would be the only one.

And then instead of being killed, just put up like a flag waving, waving in the wind. But he also, he doesn't, Bond never executes people. Like, well, rarely does he execute people. Yeah. But they're usually his counterparts. Yes, and it's usually, when Bond does kill a henchman, it's always, I think, in the act of a fight. And they weren't fighting when he put him in the suitcase?

Yes, they were fighting. They were fighting. But the fight was won when he put him in the... That's true. When he put him in the suitcase with no way to get out. So he's not going to, like, fire his gun into the suitcase. He should have just killed him. He should...

Bond should have never put him in a suitcase, because there's other ways to overtake him that aren't, like, playing to his little... But he also uses a suitcase as a shield against the wine. And then he just kind of closes in on him and then like Okay, well that's all fine but then throw it overboard. So drown him. Yeah, I don't think that's right.

But he's trying to kill him. I'm saying why put him in the suitcase and then unzip the suitcase up? Right. First of all, I don't know how Bond got up that high with a suitcase. I think he hoisted him. We'll never know. That's so crazy. But that's what we're rigging with the sails.

Like they have all the pulleys and all that. Then how do you get out of the suitcase? He let him out of the suitcase. put him in the wicker cage and hoisted him up. See, that seems crazy. That seems rude. That seems like really awful to me. That Bond thought, here's what I got him in this suitcase.

Let's see what else I can do to him. Oh, here's a basket. You could have just left him in the suitcase and like in like wine storage. Like in a cool, dark place. But then he doesn't have air. Like this actually, you may be right, Amanda. He has fresh air. I've honestly, looking at that video of him in that whatever he's in, that, that

net looking out onto the ocean. I've never seen anyone look so peaceful in my life. I mean it. So I don't know. I don't know. But I think you need to fight, you know, to defend yourself is one thing, to humiliate someone is another. The interesting thing is that there are actual like precedence for this. So in other Bond movies at the very end after the villains killed, the henchmen show up literally on boats like in diamonds or forever on a train in live let die. And every time Bond kills the henchmen. Yeah, he's got a kid, he should have killed him, I think. Amanda, I think it's much more respectful. And I'm thinking more kind of behind the scenes now, to give someone a triumphant death scene, you know, if you're a great, and, you know, I feel this way

for some of the female villains as well. It's kind of like, you earn a death scene when you're playing a henchman. Yeah, you shouldn't just be, be locked away and then put up, well, would you watch this and it would feel weird to see Nick Knaq kill, that's the other thing. Even though he's a bad guy, he's lovable. Well, here's how you do it. Yeah. If you want to do it. If you want to have Nicknack die, he should be hoisted by his own

batard. Like, he should be shooting Bond, but accidentally hit a helium tank he's next to and blow himself up accidentally. Or that he gets, he shoots something, he gets hoisted up and then he just has to stay up there and it was his own doing and he went, oh, look what I did. Whoops.

Well, but... I cuss their wrong rope. What? Throughout the movie, you're saying he's lovable. So is he not like other henchmen where he's... He's mischievous and like he's not a huge threat. And so Bonn knows that. So he doesn't want to kill him.

So that's another thing. It's like if Bond can see the good in him, although this takes... Okay, well, this takes away from when I said at the beginning where Bond sees black and white. Because now if he sees a little lovability in knick-knack, then he goes, I'm just going to put him in a suitcase.

I wonder, I don't think he sees lovability. He Bond is a sporting man. And like you said, Amanda, like, I think he realizes he could easily dispatch him. So it's almost not fair. Yeah, I think once Nick Nack has been disarmed, Bond's not going to kill him at that point. So why not just put him out to see with like a ring around him, you know? I mean, I think it's because that's been done and the writers were like, let's...

I think that's worse, right? Yeah, that's me. I guess he's presumably going to jail. Like they're going to dock somewhere and he's going to take him to jail. So I guess actually it's the right thing to do. Yeah, this is his last bout of freedom and he's taking in this. He's going to have this memory for the rest of his life when he's behind bars. He's going to have the memory of sailing through the open water at the top of a ship.

Did you call it freedom? He's in a wicker cage. I've never looked as free as he looked in those moments. I'm not kidding. But I do think what we're really talking here is, Like in the rules of combat, is it right to play on your opponent's weaknesses that are not like, oh, they're wounded because I stabbed them in the leg? Oh, no, this person doesn't have a leg. So is it fair for me to, you know, should I then bind my own leg up?

So we're even matched. It goes to that old saying, all's fair in love and war. Yes. You're right, though. That's. But you can't. If someone's trying to kill you, if someone is ill will against you, then you take whatever you have to fight back against them. Do you?

Yeah. If someone attacks you, then I guess it's interesting because isn't there that story with the Revolutionary War where the British soldiers would go into a field in formation and march at the like the Minutemen and all that, the American fighters would just hide behind trees and pluck them off. It was the first time like guerrilla warfare really became a thing. And it was like the, I think the British were like, you're not fighting like men. But then the Americans were going like, well, you're invading our country.

Interesting. But then the British were like, it's our country, guys. And really, it's not your country anyway. It's these guys over here. Well, that's a whole other big one. Yeah. Yeah, I think James Bond thought he was doing what was right by hoisting knick-knack up the pole.

I think that that, although it was humiliating and did seem to kind of play on, you know, knick-knack being small, I do think it was the right thing to do. Yeah, I guess maybe if they're taking him to jail, If there's people on the ship that are taking him to jail and that's like his imprisonment until he gets to jail, then I see that being an okay thing of like,

well, he's not going to get out of this. It's interesting whenever he's faced female henchmen, he's killed them. Mm-hmm. Do they ever have hand-to-hand combat? Yeah, in Golden Eye, he fights with Zinia on top and he basically doesn't, what does he do? He like attaches her.

He clips her into a helicopter. And he clips her into the cable from the helicopter, and then he shoots down the helicopter. Oh, my God. So that it yanks her into a tree. She's like basically killed by being. I don't think he means to throw her into a tree. It was a way for them to kind of have a fitting end,

but he wasn't totally directly. She gets squeezed. Her thing is squeezing people to death with her legs. She kills people with her legs. Oh, my God. So then he ends up getting her squeezed to death by shooting a helicopter down and her getting pulled into a tree up against a tree and the helicopter squeezes her to death. And what about Thunderball, which will be the next episode of James Bonning that you guys are on?

And he is dancing with the villainous henchwoman. And he's about to be shot. And right at the last minute, he turns her and she gets shot. Yeah, she didn't seem like a hench woman to me, though. She seemed like just a villain. Like a legit villain. Yeah. She was a co-villain.

Yeah. Honestly, I would say that she was more a villain than the I-patch man. And honestly, I think we might find something out that maybe she was the one behind the nuclear. Oh. Her plan, you mean. I'd love to see a movie where you see the ship dock and then Nicknack gets out and you see where he goes. Hmm, a sequel. I mean, he's still theoretically out there.

There is talk that he stayed on that boat. And it landed at Fantasy Island. Now that's interesting. Yeah. And then he became Ricardo Monta Bono. God, I love that. That's the one fan theory that I think I will. Yeah.

I'll take that. Yeah. That's nice because that makes sense. And then because he's reformed when he's in Fantasy Island and he's very certain. And because he's already been a henchman, that's why he can be such a good henchman. Yes. And he also. And he's so good at looking out because he was up in that crow's nest that now he can spot

planes. Yeah. He's also partnering up with someone that looks exactly like Scaramunga, even wearing the same suit. Correct. Yeah, it makes a lot of Yeah, it's all part of the charm of what happened. Well, I think that's great. Well, I think that it all worked out for the best. So I think we can all agree that James Bond

did the right thing. He did, well, there are levels of right thing, right? Yeah. There are subtle levels. Some things are more correct than others. I think this was given the circumstances, it was the... The reason we brought this one in is because this is happening in our real lives. Both of us, Matt and I are experiencing this very same thing. We've both been tracked by, it might be the same little person. We don't know. But we just need to know what to do. They're just, you know, we're all human beings. Correct. And yes, if someone's coming at you no matter their size or shape or disability or ability, you have to go at them if they come at you as hard as you can to protect yourself. It is not, it is not. It is not. It is not.

your fault that they came at you. What if it's someone mentally challenged? That, see, that's different. Still, if they're trying to kill you, but that's when I don't think deadly force should be used. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, in anyway. But if they're, but how, but if you, what if you are, if you're fighting back just to get them off and you kill them, I guess if it is true self-defense. Like, what if they, like, have you down, they're strong and they're about to kill you, like choke you to death. Then I think you have, yeah, I think Maria's right. You have to defend yourself. Well, what are you going to do? just sit there and let them do it?

More really, I shouldn't do anything. I know this is from your upbringing. No, you got to do it. You didn't, you know, you got anything to defend yourself. Yeah, but that's a harrowing and sad situation. Of course. You guys really tackle the big stuff. Yeah, these are the big ones.

This is obviously a stand-your-ground podcast. All right, well, now we'll get to the big one. And so this, I think, is going to be pretty familiar to all you James Bond listeners. And it's going to span across the James Bond universe to all those who maybe have not seen this particular James Bond movie. Okay. You work for your government in a capacity where you have access to secrets. Your lover gets kidnapped by a terrorist organization in order to blackmail you into helping

them with a diabolical plan. If you refuse to help, they will kill your lover violently. Do you cooperate with terrorists in order to save your lover's life? Oh, man. This is the Vesper-Lind dilemma. for those of you who don't know who have not seen the greatest movie ever made of all time Casino Royale starring Daniel Craig this is from that Matt and Matt do you have anything more to say about so off off yeah and off the bat first what we do is off the bat we just go around

and we say yes or no yes we cooperate no we don't and then we'll discuss and then come back to our answers at the end so can I ask a question like we should I should be thinking of this as I'm approached by this organization and your kidnapped um yeah yeah i know you answer first it's so tough i say hell yeah i co-operate me too i say no i have a question is that because you know craig isn't listening to this oh no no no because i say no because well we'll get into it but off the bad i say no what's your question uh well i i feel like i'll ask the question once we get into it so what's your answer off the bat no wow Now, there's this whole thing about how nations will not negotiate with terrorists regardless.

And I believe that's a good policy for states. But I don't think it's realistic for personal people. Sure, but what's the consequence of her, of us doing this? The terrorists win a huge windfall of money that they will then use to attack. Okay, well, then you obviously can't cooperate. Hang on. I'm backtracking now. Whoa.

Maybe they're not going to spend the money correctly. Like, essentially what you're saying is like, you're not like, I guess the moral quandary really is like, are they asking you to do anything that will directly cause harm? And the answer to that question is no. If you're just doing it to get them money, then you are not doing anything that will directly cause harm. Let's say it's get them money for a plan that they have. Well, they're not telling me that.

That does make it easier to justify to yourself. It's not like if you were literally standing there and on, you know, in one cage was your boyfriend. And then the other cage was 3,000 people, mothers, like husbands, children. And they were like, we're going to like blow up one of these cages. I think you would them be like, sorry, I've got to like save all these people. But it is easier to justify in your own human nature. I go into the cage with my boyfriend. Yes, and you go down with the ship.

Get the other. Yeah. Blow up me, rather. Blow us up and we'll go together. That's what I would do too. And honestly, that's kind of what, spoiler, but Vesper does end up dying in a cage. She does.

She does end up dying in a cage. And so does Nicknack. I have some bad news. Oh, no. I thought it was on Fantasy Island. But here's the, like, I don't know what this money's for, right? They come to me, they're like.

Okay, well, that's being a little naive and being a little, like, closing your eyes to what's really there. Because this is a terrorist organization. How well organized are they? Okay, they are so well organized. It's in the name. Terrorist organization. They're very well organized and they're very...

Tio. It's quantum. It's specter. So it's quantum at specter. Yeah. They're super capable. Here's what I, here's my real, like, I'm like wondering if like, oh, maybe they came up short this year and they're not going to be able to have a holiday party. Oh, this is for Christmas bonuses. Yeah.

They're not going to be able to have a holiday party. You better get mad at him because she gets mad at me when I find a loophole. You have to assume that this is going to cause death and destruction. It's not, but this is the thing. He is now trying desperately like anyone would to justify this to himself when he knows deep down that this money is going to fund the deaths of innocent people. But it's going to fund, it's going to that maybe, listen, they're already bad at handling money. I know this.

How do you know that? You don't know that. No. Because they need more money. They're always a chief's problem. But this is how terrorist organizations function. This is how they get their initial. funding as by doing this kind of stuff.

Well, in that movie, in the casino right out, what is that whole talk about 9-11 that they do? Does that have anything to do with it? They short stocks because they plan the attack. That's his first way of, he's trying to get money to fund terrorist organizations. Actually, he's a banker for terrorists.

And so he creates that explosion on that plane so he can short sell his stocks beforehand and make a ton of money. Lesheaf does. Yes, on that plane blowing up. Same thing he did on 9-11. And does that have to do anything with what Vespers

dealing with? Yeah, he's now, his playing scheme failed. Bond foiled it. So he has to hold this poker game. And so Vesper's been sent to manage Bond's money, but what she's really doing is working for Quantum. See, this is, I mean,

do you see that maybe they've done some bad things then and that they're going to do some bad things as well? Well, it's give it. They've done some bad things. Sure. We all have. They've done some great things. They've done some wonderful things as well. Like you said, the Christmas bonuses, the ice cream socials. It's just a lot of fun. They're a great place to work for. They have open floor plans. No one has like walls and they're off. Razor scoot. At Guantam. There's ball tables. There's

ping pong. There's a podcasting booth. They have so much fun. They have so much fun with us. Zach Brath is starting a TV show about it. Multicultural family. It's really great. That would be funny if that Zach Wrapto was him actually working for a terrorist crime. He was LeChief. He's like, fuck, I guess I'll start a podcast company. Terrorist 2.0 startup.

So, no, but here's the real dilemma here, right? So if Bond not knowing, by the way, okay, they're trying to blow up that plane, which is a prototype plane. I'm talking about the plot of Casinole. are at the Miami. They're now at the Miami airport, right? And they try to blow up this plane. So are we to understand that if Bond does not stop them and they blow up the plane, Lechef gets his money back? No poker game happens. And Vespers is fine. Until the next time they need something. So essentially what you're telling me is that quantum has

or Lechief or Spector, I don't know who is in charge of getting a hold of Vesper. Quantum. So it's quantum. Yeah. But Quantum knows what Le Schiff's doing. Hence them killing the sheaf at the end of the movie. Spoiler.

Or the middle of the movie. Trigger warning. But, uh, well, I guess sort of my question is like, I'm just trying to wrap my head around. I know it's hard. And she did too. She tried to wrap her head around it, too. The conceptual, like, idea of, like, Le Schiff's backup plan, right? Oh, no.

I guess I'll organize a table. $10 million buy-in poker tournament? It's his, like, scrambling. He's going to be killed if he doesn't get money. I know, but what a weird... Because he's like a... Remember, he's a chess genius. He's a brilliant poker player.

Why not, like, I guess to get that much money that quickly. Well, thank God he did, because it's a good movie. Yeah, oh my God. Then we got a love story for the ages. I would not... Okay. So we're putting ourselves in Vesper's shoes. Yes, that's what we're doing.

So just real quick for maybe people who haven't seen Casino Royale. Let's just set our characters real quick. there's the gorgeous Vesper Lin. D. D? Yeah. Lind? That's almost like my last name.

Lund. Yeah. Wow, maybe I should change it. I already changed it to Gourley. I'll change it back to Lind. But yeah, so she's gorgeous. How old is she 32 or something? Oh, girl.

Probably 30. Okay, she's 30. 27. Oh, no. I think she might be 28 when she made the movie. I don't remember. I forget. I could be wrong.

She looks great. Yeah, Eva. She looks amazing. Okay. And then she's so, and then her boyfriend is a sex. We never see him. Yousef. We do see him in quantum.

Sexy Persian. He's a sexy Persian man. But they also are, their boyfriend, girlfriend. So we know they're in love. He gave her this nice necklace. The Algerian lot. Love not. The Algerian love not.

So, yeah, should we do a little improv of getting the phone call? Yeah, I'd love to. So do you want to play Vesper? I'll play your best friend. Okay. Gina. And you guys want to be the. terrorist?

Yeah. Sure. And then maybe one of you can also be your boyfriend. Okay. Okay. Vesfer, oh my God. And then he took me to this restaurant. Gene, I have so much work to do.

Where's your accent? Oh, where am I from? England and you kind of told me like this. Oh, yes, that's right. Oh, you're getting a phone call. Bring, bring. Hello. Hello, this is Mr. White.

Put it on speaker. Oh, sorry, one second. Hello. Am I on speaker? Yes. Oh, I hate this. I hate the speakers. Yes, what can I do for you?

I'm here with my friend, Gina, we're having brunch. Hi, I'm Gina. Hi, Gina. I went on a date last night and he bought me cheese. Did you two get those little Q pins that we send out to everyone so we can all just talk hands free? Yes. Oh, is that what that is? Okay, yeah, very good.

All right. Listen, I'm sitting here in Vienna or someplace. And boy, have I got a proposition for you, gals? Oh, I'd love to hear it. Also, Yusef is on the line. Say hi, Yusuf. Hello, do what they tell you. Oh, my gosh, Yusuf, that's your boyfriend.

By the way, how was the cheese? Oh, it was so good, Yosef. And Yusuf, thank you so much for those tickets to you two. Of course. You too. Yes, we went to go. Yes, Botto's great. Yusuf, what are you doing there?

Oh, well, I've kind of run into a little bit of trouble and I was hoping you might hear Mr. Whiteout. Oh, my God. Are you spanking you, Seth? I'm spanking him. He's been a very naughty boy. Actually, he's been a very good boy. But here's the thing.

We are a terrorist organization. And before you ask, yes, we are very organized. And if we get any money, definitely harm will come to many people. Wait, no, hold on a man. Don't listen to him. They just want a Christmas pot. No, I mean, that is true as well. Are you going to use the money wisely? or are you promising us right now

that this is actually going to do harm to people? Do harm. That is our whole thing. We bring down countries. Oh my God. What do you want from me? Why me? I will say in...

Do you think that maybe you shouldn't have wasted all the money on the wireless queue headsets? Those are great. They're worth it. I will say in the interest of continuity, I'm not into killing women or children. I'm Mr. White,

and you'll find that that figures in later. Maybe you've seen the 2015 film specter. It might take two or three movies for this to happen. It will happen. Okay, so listen. Get to the point, all right? She doesn't have all day. Gina, stop making this about you.

Well, we've got waffles coming. Sheena, did you have the cheese and then go to U2? Or was it you two and then the cheese? We did both. We brought the cheese to the concert. Is Gina really necessary? Yes, I was there. Keep going.

I'm keeping on track. Why don't you kidnap the men Gina went to the U2 concert with instead? Oh, no, Rick. Oh, believe me. He wouldn't be doing anything but complain. Gina also works for the treasury. Yeah, I work for the treasury all right.

The treasury of my mind. Oh, God. Good one, Gina. What does that even mean? I don't know. I'm going to die. Why are you guys still talking about this? Gina is an emotional vampire.

Listen, Vespalind, goarly. Here's the deal. We have your boyfriend. It's true. I'm right here. Youssef. And we have kidnapped him. And we are going to kill him violently

unless you help us by infiltrating the government that you work for. I've seen all their chairs. None of them have bottoms. Oh, my God. That's right. We take rugby to ride to his plums. Oh, God.

Vesper, what do you want to do? I'll do it. What? I'm going to do it. You have no choice. Well, she does have a choice. She just said she's going to do it. She just said she's going to do it.

I'm going to go along with it and then see what happens. Okay, here's what we want you to do. So there's this guy, right? His name's Jim Bond or something like this. Oh, Jim Bond. I know Jim Bond. He owns a tire store downtown. No, not. That's a different one.

Oh, well, he makes a great cuss-cus. And you'll, when you taste it... Oh, that could be him. Oh, yeah? Yeah. He has a daughter named Raphael. No, no, not the same one, no. So he's going to go to this big poker game in Montenegro right at the Casino Royale.

You've got to go and represent the Treasury. But be careful because there's no other games happening. It's just the one game. It's a weird casino. Yeah. Listen to James Bonding next week. That would make sense. So what you're going to do,

going to help us out and kind of be our double agent? Well, you came to the right woman because I'm a fantastic actress. All right. Well, can I say something about that? What? Well, I don't think you're the greatest. Yes, I can. I'm very witty and I look great in a low-cut dress.

I'm not catty. I just tell it like it is. What is your resume? Can you tell us some of your credits? Well, I was in a production of Barefoot in the Park. Oh, no. Oh, I love that movie. It was community theater and a kid played the guy.

Oh, but Redford and Furt and... Fonda, I mean, we had lots of sexual chemistry. And also, to be honest, I've been with Yusuf five years now and he hasn't proposed. What do you say to that, you said? Well, I got her a nice necklace. I wanted a ring. You can imagine my surprise when on her anniversary. It was this weird necklace.

That's so bulky. I've told you a thousand times. To be honest, he's got a bunch of those to give out. I have to plan my outfits around the necklace. I'm going to die. Please help. Okay, Anne, we're out. Um, wow. I mean, I really think I would have to just go, go along with it because it, you know, what's so immediate is that they have the person you love.

Yeah, but, but okay, that, but morally do you think that's correct? No, I don't because I think that you, I think, you know, one life for many lives is, you know. Yeah, and usually I fall on the side of like the needs of the many over the needs of the few. But in this one, I couldn't, I couldn't do it. It's the vageties of it all. For me. It's the what? The vageties.

There's no vageties. Harm is going to come to many, many people. That's a given. It's obtuse, though. It's like, it's like... Oh, she's pulling a maria. No, no, I don't think it is actually. But it's like, it's who, to whom?

You know what I mean? Like, it's like, this terrorist organization. To whom, you mean you value some lives over others? For sure. What if this terrorist organization hates another terrorist organization? No. What if it's an al-Qaeda? What if it's an ISIS al-Qaeda situation, right?

I'm paying... I'm going to go get money for, ISIS and they're going to then use the money to kill al-Qaeda. I'm like, well, I don't know. You're being like a traitor as well because you're you're throwing your country under the bus. That's how they get you though. That's how they get you. I mean, it's very, it's easy when you're not seeing the faces of the people who are going to be hurt to be willfully ignorant. And I think that's what a lot of people do. But also, I don't think it's really realistic to expect one person up against something that's so huge to, like, I don't think you can judge them morally for going along with it. I really don't.

I think you can. I think you can because it is a, it's a very selfish act to go, well, I love him and my life's on the line. So therefore, everyone else has to suffer in response to that. I don't think you can call that selfishness. I think if you, I don't think you'd be, like, I don't think. you can call that selfishness. I think if you, because you're not asking for this situation, it's being put on you and someone's life is at stake. And I don't think you'd be, like, I don't think I'd be literally capable of saying kill Amanda do what you will with Amanda like I would do everything in my power to the to the exclusion of even thinking about the rest of the thing right I think that you're you're as a human you wouldn't you wouldn't even let yourself your defense

mechanisms would jump up and you would do what Matt Myra is doing and just justify whatever you could to save the person's life and that's human nature okay but that doesn't mean necessarily going along with it right? Right? What Vesper does in the movie is go along step by step until the end, she goes along with it until she falls in love again and then is like, oh, well, maybe I shouldn't go along with it. That's almost more selfish. Yeah. So what I'm saying is, yes, you get put in light. You can't, when something happens to you in life that puts you in a situation where you're in between a rock and a hard place and you go, well, but I didn't do this. So I need to take the route that makes me more comfortable and I get to come out kind of ahead. that is selfish to me. No, she sacrifices herself for Bond.

No, right, at the very end. But I mean, going along with the plan, like, yeah, I'm all for going like, no, I'm not going to do it. And then doing everything in your power to like, you know, stop them or go to. Because she leaves her phone behind for Bond to find it's a way for her to not betray her boyfriend and still help Bond in some way. But that's at the very, well, we're talking at the end of the movie. Yeah, and we'll get to the part B of this, which is what happens afterwards. So, yeah, I just, I think that, you know, you're put in a position that's, that's very, that's very difficult and to agree with something that is morally wrong and hurts, who knows how many people, to just go along with that in the moment and go, yes, I'll do it, is a morally wrong and selfish thing to do. Yeah, I don't think by definition it is.

Yes, I don't think you can call it selfish. I could say you saying the more moral thing to do is to say no and say, sacrifice your partner and the love, your love to potentially save many people. I don't think you, but I don't think that you can call not doing that and saving your love selfish. I don't think you can. But they'll just go down the line of, you know, treasury worker after treasury worker. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

I mean, that's another way to justify it. Yeah, that's another way to justify it. Like imagine Craig is in this situation. No, I know. But it's, it's, but the thing is, it's like, I can put whoever I want in. in this situation. It's, it,

when you think about it, it's like, it doesn't matter. What you're doing is giving a terrorist organization, the ability to, to your action, I know you didn't choose it, but your action in saying,

I will do this for you, is putting millions of lives in danger. But what would, I know, it's, yeah, we understand that. It's like,

what would you, what do you think you would do? I would say, I would say, I might, what I might do is go, yes, I will go straight to the, straight to the government or somebody, but it's not a loophole because it's, it's, you're saying, what would I do? And it's, that's what I do. I'd say, yes, I'd go along with it and then be a double agent. I might consider doing that too,

but that is a loophole for this question. Right. So you have like a gun to his head and they're tracking you. So you can assume. Yeah, let's assume if you do that he'll be killed. What do you do? Craig. Right. I can't. And I'm sure he would say the same thing too. I cannot go along with that. All I can do is say is say no. And then I know I'm going to get killed as well because I was, I was brought into this. And honestly, if you really think about it, you're all going to probably end up dead even if you try to save him. It's like, what is your life or your one boyfriend's life mean in, in a whole, you know, millions of other lives? But it means nothing. You could also say that they will probably find a way to do this anyway. So why, why can't, you know, like, well, that's a bad way

to think that's a bad because then I think you're being really judgmental about it to be honest I think what do you're being a little cold-hearted about it like I don't think I understand saying one thing is more moral to do the right thing but then I think you cannot judge and say that's a bad thing to do someone who would save their lover in that situation but but what I'm saying is it it is a bad thing to do because it is it is an action you are you are taking your terrorist organization are the bad ones that someone else is just trying to deal with it. It's kind of like we're back to the baby in the village in a way. That's how this whole thing started. That's easier though, I think. Yeah. Yeah. The baby in the

village. Yeah, because you're with the people. You're with them. Like, I think that's a big, makes a big difference. What I'm saying is you, I get that if I was looking at Craig by the love of my life in front of me with a gun to his head and they were going, if you don't, I'm looking at Craig. I'm also looking at myself. If he dies, I die because I'm there and they're telling me this thing. What are they going to let me go? No, I'm, I know basically I've been put in a position where you're shit out of luck. So what you can do then is be selfish and go, well, no, no, no.

I want to live and I want him to live and so I'll do whatever you want. That is a selfish act as opposed to going just kill. I know it seems like brazen, but it's like, well, I think presumably they've called you or something and say we have your man, do what we want. So you're, let's say you're not in threat. But you don't think they'd kill her if she said no. You can go straight to your government and get protection. Right.

But your boyfriend's definitely going to die. Right. I just don't think, I think it's, I think it is wrong to put someone you love. All of these other people have people who love, who love people. But do you think you could really sit there with to watch Craig with a gun to his head? Well, I'm not watching him. Well, or just no. No.

that he's there. Yeah, like you could actually make, you know that the minute you answer, you're actually sealed this thing. Right, no, I'm not. It wouldn't be an easy decision at all. Oh, I know, but you could do it. You think you could do it?

I don't think I could do it. I think, I mean, it's like, in a way you just want to like go for the gun. And if they pull the trigger and kill Dory, then I still go for the gun and kill myself. Right, but you're not in the room. But maybe if the person on the other end is like, it's okay.

Like, you go ahead. Like you, don't do it, don't do it. But the other person, if you were that person, what would you want your partner to do, let you die? No. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I would have an easier time dying as that person than making the call for sure.

Yeah, definitely. But the reveal on this also is that I guess when we get to Part B, we can reveal. I mean, I see where you're coming from totally, Maria. And I do think like that is, I just don't think you can call that selfish or wrong to make the other choice. Like, I think that actually is incorrect. You're just handling a wrong or a selfishness. No, but I think it, what I think is incorrect, is putting, because it becomes, because what you're doing is you're putting yourself in this kind

of victim position of like, well, this happened to me. I didn't ask for this. So I can make the so, so I shouldn't have to make the decision. Basically it's not, you don't think that's, you could consider that person a victim. Well, no, but you, but you, right, but you have to deal with it. You can't just throw and go like, well, but that's not, you can't, basically you can't say, well, that's not fair. I want to live and I want him to live. You're shit out of luck. You got put in this position and what you need to do now as a moral human being is do the morally right thing. And instead of sitting like being there and being like, well, I didn't ask for this. Why should this happen to me?

It doesn't matter. It happened. You know, like I just think there's like this kind of wishy-washiness of like. It's interesting because it's the same basic premises that that button that will change a train from killing one person to killing five. It's exactly the same thing except the changed element is the love. one and I find that changes it completely. But it's also you're not actually pulling a lever. You're literally just doing, you're saying no. So that's an, that's an, it would be harder for me to pull a lever than it would to be like, I'm not going along with your plan. That's easier for me.

Oh, that's, it's way more difficult for me. It would be so easy to pull that lever because it's literally the question of five blank slates versus one blank slate. You don't know any of them. But this is a world of difference because you have a life, love. and like years of investment and someone that you can't like I don't even think of it as selfishness I think of saving the person that means the most to me in the world like I think of it as means the most to you in the world yeah but but yeah I guess yeah but it's not selfish it's it's it's like I just selfishness almost doesn't even enter into it it's on paper it's selfish but in real life it's like I can't there's no option it's human nature I mean really what you have to do is say yes

in order to buy yourself more time. Well, that's what I would. If we were allowed loopholes, then I would do that for sure, but we're not allowed loopholes on this show. Except for when we get to part B of all of this, but what ends up happening, which would be kind of bad,

is that if you're thinking of I'm the person who got kidnapped, well, you're going to now go work with some beautiful British secret agent, Jamie Bond. And you are going to have been a mole who never loved me in the first place. So that's what ends up happening really in the movie. But we all know where we stand now on what we think we would do or what we think is right to do.

But now part B of the question is what happens when you fall in love with the person you now have to work with. Right. Which makes me think, well, okay, so it's a moral delay. If you're working around James Bond and you have to fall in love, right? I know. That's just no way around it when you're with Daniel Craig as James Bond. Agreed. There's just no way around it.

There's just you're falling. Sorry. I don't know what to do. I know. He just puts a spell on you. And he's also, at this point, demonstrated that he's been willing to die for you. Yeah.

Yeah. It's amazing. It's wonderful. In the torturing thing, he's like, you can cut off my balls, you can do whatever. I'm not giving you the code. And it's more for Vesper than anything.

Disagree. We'll back it up. I think it's more for the mission. Well, that too, but. He's not giving the code. There's no, like, I don't think, in his mind, I don't think there's any doubt that he,

I don't think that he thinks that him giving the code is going to do anything to spare Vesper. So I think that in his mind, he's like, well, you're going to kill her anyway. Why am I going to give you the, because he knows how these people operate. He knows, you know, how a- But he does risk his life to save her when she's-

Sure, when he thinks he can do it, sure. Yeah. Yeah. But then I think when he, Bond is very adaptive, to his situations just as a character. So I think when he's in that situation and is getting tortured in a chair, and, you know, are you going to listen to the guy who's swinging this fucking hard ball at your testicles? Are you going to listen?

Are you going to believe that if he gives the password, then she's fine? Are you going to believe that from him? No. That's fair. No. That's fair. So then what happens, so Vesper now has to go kind of, um, work with James Bond, but she's secretly being a mole to the terrorists.

But she falls in love with James Bond, which I know that he's so, he's magic. So you can't help it. Like literally magic. You can't help. But that also is kind of crazy that she has this guy she's risking her life for. And then meets some other guy and it's just like, ooh. But it does happen over like weeks or months. Yeah, she does.

She is very cold to him at first. Although they have, you know, they have their little back and forth. Oh, that's one of the best scenes in cinematic history on the train. Yes. How do you like your lamb? Skewered. Unsympathizers. Well, it's also like, you know,

her... One sympathizes. Her, no, her, um... I think her tactic should switch completely. Once she falls for Bond, she should then sort of be like, well, I really don't care what happens to the ex-boyfriend now. Well, I think the minute I met James Bond...

I got this sweet hunk of man over here. And which is kind of what she does, but not really. But the minute I met James Bond, I'd be like, oh, he's super capable. I'm just going to tell him what's happening. Yeah, that's exactly what I do. That's what I do. But she plays it through to the end to still save Yusef because she doesn't know he's a double agent. And she's leaving a clue for Bond to help, but she's trying to keep him alive.

But why couldn't she just tell Bond, like this is what I would do. Now, I get it. We can't do loopholes. But yes. in the reality of the situation. I would say yes and then go behind and cut off the plan as it happened. And without being able to do that, then I have to say no right off the back. She does try to do that.

She won't give him the money. And the reason is is because she knows that this money is going to fund terrorists. It's not because of bonds. So she thinks that this is all she, sorry, all she needs to do is handle bonds money. But what does that mean? Like what is she doing for the organization? For the organization, she's doing things like when he figures out Le Schiff's tell. He then informs them that Lechief has a tell and Bond knows what it is.

So she tells him. Yeah. But here's the, I mean, the reality of it all is it's a poker game, right? They have no control over how the cards are going to fall. They have no control over the river. What they really should have done and the easiest thing to do, and they do this at Hollywood Park Casino and Commerce Casino

is something, the dealers can be in on this, right? So what they should have gone to, instead of going to a Treasury Department person who you don't know that's even going to be put on the case, like there's so many logic

break aparts in Casino Royale anyway. So like, I don't know, that makes sense there'd be some bureaucrat like actually has to issue the money. But it's like, okay, so who's,

How many of our agents are boyfriend or girlfriend with treasury department people? Okay. So let's figure out. Okay. It's going to be. No, they probably were thinking who can we have to be a mole? And they could have looked at dealers or whatever. And then they went, oh, this guy works with us.

And he's got a girlfriend who's in the treasury. Let's do that. Yeah, but I think you go with the dealer because the dealer can shuffle. They can stack the deck. They can shuffle it however they want to shuffle it. You know, if you're a skilled shuffler, if you're a, you know, like. Shuffler. I'm a skilled chuffler.

We're arguing semantics. Like the parameters of this thing. Okay. Yes. So the parameters are set. But to what Amanda was saying earlier with Vesper just being like telling the tells to quantum or to Le Schiff. Why not like Maria is saying, why not the other side of it? Why not say to James?

Oh, by the way, I'm working. they have my boyfriend Ball. Why does Vesper also not just tell Bond's hands? What? To... His poker hands

to Lashif Yeah, like Blank for Ace. But she's not just there for that. She's there to get fake kidnapped so that Bond will follow her. So they chose her because they knew Baum would like her

too, probably enough to... Presumably. In the book... He shouldn't have a reputation at that point. Do you know what I mean? Like, Bonn shouldn't have a reputation as a womanizing spy because he's a very new spy

at this point. Well, he also... it becomes a womanizer because of this betrayal. Right. But I think she's hurting more, she's hurting more people than she thought she would. I know. But I don't think it's supposed to be that like,

oh, he'll save her because she's beautiful and they're in love. It's just his job, you know? Like if she gets kidnapped, he's going to try to save her. Now, I have something at the end that's always bothered me so much. I know it had to happen, but that she lets herself die at the end when she's locked in that cage

because now she, you know, she feels so guilty. But I'm like, oh, Why did she do that? I think it was guilt, but I feel the same way because he clearly doesn't want her to die. Like he wants to either forgive her or save her. Or figure out what the hell just happened. Vesper, we need to talk. In the book, she is there to lure bond after they've been established on this case.

And then when they escape, she sees that one-eyed man with the, you know, Gettler that you were so beautifully dressed. up as at my 40th birthday. Thank you. DJ Gettler. So Maria was the DJ? I was a good DJ too. And she's paranoid that smirsh is the name of the terrorist group in the books, is going to kill her.

And so she kills herself with sleeping pills and leaves Bond a big confessional note. And her boyfriend was not a double agent in that. So I think she knows that either way she's dead meat. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. But why even go along with it if you know you're dead? me. Well, because she probably didn't know. I think that's what they say at the end of Casino

Rale too. I think Judy Dench says, well, I'm sure she's hoped she hoped they would let her live. Yeah, she doesn't. She says she left your phone because she knew you were you. She knew you would follow that. But Bond can't won't hear it. The bitch is dead. Oh, it's so sad. It's so sad.

And when he tries to give her CPR. No. No. If you guys have not seen Casino Real, you don't have to be a Bond fan. Oh my God. You guys. It's so good. It's a very nice favorite movie. I can't get over it. The colors alone. Just the colors of the movie draw you in. She does wear too much makeup during the casino scene. Yeah, she looks super sexy when she gets her

makeover, but it's too much. No, it's too much. She looks much better when it's just like a... When she gets her makeup. When she has just kind of like a muted lip. Was that because it was 2006 or was that too much makeup for even then? Even then. Because she, there's multiple points in the movie where she looks just very nice. Yeah. She's very nice. She's very nice. She's much. She's much. She's my favorite bond girl, hands down. Yeah, well. So what would you do if you fell in love with the girl, the you two? What if, oh, should we do a little roleplay where we're,

oh, maybe we should do a four-person scene on the train? I don't know what that is, but I'm in. Whatever this is. A four-way, sexy back and forth. Well, your Vesper, I'm Gina. And then these are the bond twins. Okay, perfect. James and James.

Yeah, James and James. Can I join you? I was just having some lamb. Can I sit down too? What am I? Chop meat? I was just having... Weren't you just having some chopped meat?

I was actually just having some chopped meat. I was actually just having some chopped liver. Have a seat. Thanks so much. My name's Gina and this is my pal Vesper. Vesper Lind. And I'm Jim Prime. I'm Jim Subprime.

Can I get yourself in a drink? Oh, no. We're in a diner. I'll have a glass of your first. finest burgundy. Tell me, good one. You what? Tell me good one.

What did she say? What do you mean? I'll have a vodka martini, shaken anster. I'll have a vodka martini, one part Lillet, one part Gordon's gin, one part just a bit of

pickle juice. I call it a Gina Martini. Oh, I'll have a Shirley Temple. I'm sorry, Gina. What did show me good one mean? I'm talking to the waitress, and I said, tell me good one.

What is that mean? Because she's good. her job. Oh my God. Gina, you've got a way of... Well, you're just looking for a wine recommendation and then only... I want a Shirley Temple. Everyone leave me alone.

I have no problem with what you're doing, Gina. You've got a sort of lust for life that I find, I don't know. Just invigorating. Wow, Vesper. Take a look at this one. Now he's a keeper. So do you boys like trains? Well, we're on one, aren't we?

I find it gets us from here to there in a straight line. That's right. What are you two doing on a train? we're going to be in a secret poker game where we will try to... James? What? Isn't that funny?

In that funny. We're just... We're heading to Montenegro. Isn't that funny? We're doing the same. That's right. We're here. We're the money girls.

Wait. Oh. You're the money girls. Set by the treasured. Where do you work? Yeah, so we look at the British treasury. Oh, you're our contacts. We told we would be met by two baddie brads.

Well, you can call me baddie, but don't call me abroad. Some like it hot. What cabins are you in? One and two. Not anymore. Now you're in our cabin. Cut to the girls' bathroom. Vesper. Wow. Now, when you got a look at Jim, you just forgot about Ricky.

No, no. What's his name? Youseth. Cut to the girls' bathroom. We're in here, too. We like to go in here. We find it's cleaner. Yes. Wow. Okay. And scene. That was sexual tension through the room. Wow. Our version of Casino Real is still better than the 1967 movie version.

I haven't seen it. All right. Well, yeah, I think what do you guys think about falling in love with someone else? Do you think that that's a... That I do think is wrong. Yeah, that how do you... How do you meet those feelings? I mean, it'd have to be...

I don't see how you could because I don't think you're capable to fall in love with someone when the person you love is life is on the line. Like, would you even be opened to that? Yes, if it were James Bond. But this is extreme circumstances. Yeah, and I don't think, I think also they, you know, they fell in love after in that shower scene when he licks her fingers. So I don't know how you said. God, you guys, if you haven't seen it.

Oh, my God. All right. Cut to the shower, the four of us. Now, you're bleeding. You're bleeding from the hands. Hold on. Eight more to go. Guys, I really actually need the shower.

What are you all doing in here? Jim. Please. No, I just need to really. I'm going to get back down, but I, I smell, I just went to the gym. We're playing. Why are you all in the shower? Licking head, shoulders, fingers, toes, fingers toes.

And cut. Take five, everyone. Good work. Yeah, I think you, she's so desperate that she's just, she, I think you actually could be susceptible to fall in love. Serious question for all of you, moral and or otherwise. Have you not in your lives ever been with? someone and then falling in love with someone else and then had to do the breakup and then float over to the next person. No, I've never been in love. Well, no, I haven't been in love. I've never been in love. I've never been in love. I've never, I haven't been in love. I've never, like, I can't imagine being with Craig and meeting someone and being like, oh my God. Like there's no way. But I don't think Vesper and this guy were that serious, to be honest. Yeah, probably. Maybe he just bought her that necklace. She felt she owed him.

No one's ever bought me a necklace He doesn't have half the charm as Craig Because you see him in Quantum of Salas Yeah It is like it is a way letdown You know what I mean? Like you're like that's the guy Well he's got that like Euro trash charm

Yeah yeah yeah yeah Do you remember did you see Quantum I saw it but not since it came out Maybe we should have you guys on for Quantum I'd love to He looks like a guy who spends his time shopping At the Ferrari clothing store But doesn't own a Ferrari

Yes you're right That's the biggest insult I've ever heard. I'm going to go pretty crazy right here. I'm going to say something that might be controversial. Wow. Okay. I don't know if Vesper Lind is capable of love. Because I wonder she seems very damaged.

She seems very like she has been wronged multiple times throughout her life. And she doesn't, I don't think she knows what she wants. And I don't know if she fully was in love with James or was fully in love with Yousef. I think she was maybe searching for. something that she was never going to be able to find. But it's probably not her fault because let's say she hasn't even had to decide whether she's in love until this man is life is in danger. She's going to feel feelings that most earthlings have never felt in their entire life.

Same thing with James when she's in this extreme circumstance and he's saving her life and he's almost killed. How do you know what love is in that situation? Yeah. I don't know. She's definitely guarded. She's definitely guarded and she let it down a little bit with James. Just a little, but I don't even know.

Honestly, I don't even know if we'd like what we saw if she let her guard down. She might be a mess. No. We do see her. Her guards down. I don't know. I can't imagine her laughing really hard. She's laughing when they're in Venice and they're getting out of bed and she throws the pillow.

Oh, yeah. That always seems odd to me. Yeah, because she's about to then just go to the, isn't it like immediately following that? She leaves. She's active to go to the bank. Yeah. Well, she also thinks that she's going to the bank, but she hopes that it will all resolve itself. Because she wants him to follow her.

She leaves her phone. He is meant to follow her. She should have just told him right then. Hey, I'm going to the bank. I might be killed because you follow. Because you walk like two steps behind me. I know. I like that green dress though.

It's red. No, but then there's a green one earlier. Oh, yeah. When they were in Switzerland, guy. Oh, yeah. Poor Mathis. Well, so final thoughts, shall we?

It's a tough one. Yeah. That's what makes the movie so good. Yes. Because it's not open closed. Like there's some ambiguity. And every time I've seen that movie so many times and I still don't fully understand who's pulling what strings it. And it doesn't feel like a shortcoming with the movie.

It just feels like a phantom menace. Wow. Wow. Nice. That's cool. Yeah, I stick by my choice of I do. I understand how theoretically it's not morally correct. But I think I would have to see how it all plays out and just go along with it.

and see how it all plays that. I agree with you 100% and that's why we would take good care of each other. But destroy the world. Yeah, see you later, Matt and Maria. We're going to live forever in happiness. We're all going to end up dead. Matt, what is your final?

I think I would say yes. And then I would try to out. But that's a loophole, Amanda. I know it's a little bit. I know. I know if you're accepting the circumstances, but I would try too. At the end of the day, what happens is,

if I cannot find the loophole, I'm going along with it. Yeah. Oh. Same. See, what I'm doing is I'm going, I'm saying yes, going to the government, trying to figure it out. If that's not working, then I go to them. I'm not going to do it. Are you sure you're not being selfish?

You just want out of your relationship and this is an easy way out. Hmm. No, no. I'm just, me and, me and Craig really stick up for the little guy. Nickknack. Whole circle. Knees and toes, knees and toes. What an interesting discussion.

Yeah. We can't believe it. So this is a time sensitive, dear big ones, and it's someone that really needs our help. Okay. Dear big ones, my boyfriend and I are already planning to get married

and I knew it was only a matter of time until we got engaged because we had picked out the ring together and everything back in July, in January. We are going on a trip together to New York. to New Orleans in two weeks mid-April, which is why there is kind of a deadline. And I had a feeling that he was planning to propose on the trip, which had been hinted at when my sister asked me when I

was planning to get my nails done. However, it was just confirmed because my best friend, who we are staying with on our visit, sent me a text two days ago asking me what I would like for my proposal. My question is, how surprised should I act? How prepared should I be? I am a little bit of a control freak so it is very tempting to tell my best friend exactly what my vision is. But is that taking away from his surprise? Should I trust that he might have a nice plan and I should give him a chance to carry it out? But I don't know if his plan will be as good as the one I would plan. Also, I was planning on buying a new dress because during this trip I will be attending another friend's bridal shower, but should I buy more than just one dress in case? Or can I

wear the same dress? This is kind of a long, dear big one, but even if it's not on the air, I would love to hear from you ladies. Okay. All right. And I'm not going to say who this is from, but thank you for writing in and thank you for listening. Proposal Pam, we'll call her. Proposal Pam. Okay, girl, it's the proposal. Let go of any expectations. It's not going to be what you think. It's going to be special and great in its own right and just have zero expectations because from, in my experience, and in every single woman I know who's gotten engaged, it's always, it's real and it's life. It can be awkward. It's just not going to be perfect like you see in a movie.

Just enjoy it for what it is and it's going to be sweet because you guys love each other. Yeah. I agree. I think the whole beauty of a proposal should be like whatever he wants to. I feel like he's probably asking people because he knows that she has an idea. So he's asking the friend and the friend is going back channel to her. If I were her, I would say let me just let it happen to me. And then I bet he'd come up with some nice, even if it's very simple or straightforward.

But that's the beauty of a proposal. It should be honest. Yeah, but now she's going to be like really on edge the whole trip. Yeah. And let's say it's not happening on this trip for some reason. Well, no, I think it, because the friend said what would you, but I guess maybe. You know, and then he's like, well, I can't do it now. Right.

What if it listens to this podcast? Maybe he does it at the airport on the way to the trip. That'd be a fun way to do it. Yes, I had a friend do it. On a plane, people would clap. It'd be amazing. But he's not listening. So, but I think that for her, she should remember the following thing.

The proposal is really the level. ditch effort of the guy to have control over an event that will happen in your lives. You have the whole wedding to go exactly how you want the wedding to go because that's really going to be your day. And this is a moment for the guy to sort of try to surprise you and get that little downbeat of like, yes, and then you guys move on with your day. Yeah. And then if you want to take pictures afterwards, change.

Put the dress on you want to make. I totally agree. So when we got engaged, when Matt and I did, I, I, you know, had very little makeup on.

We were just decorating the Christmas tree. I had a ton of makeup. And it was just a very, like, sweet, intimate moment. And then we went out to dinner and I got dressed up

and we had some, had the waiter take a picture of us. And, you know, I just think, where'd you go to dinner? At Parkway Grill in Pasadena. It's really nice, yeah. So I just think like,

you know, you know you're a control freak. That's okay. But don't worry about how you're going to react. Just be authentic and whatever happens is great. But just don't let your brain nitpick what your fiancé does. It's just and of it's, it's not about what you're going to be able to tell your friends or how you look or whatever.

It really is a moment between you and the person you love. And it's, it is a bridge between like now and, you know, a place where you're going to have your hands in every last bit of the planning. So it's like stop having. these expectations, you guys picked out the ring together. You already know that's going to be fine. And that's like a big like, like that's always been a fear of mine. Like if I look like saw that this

ring was like an ostentatious type thing where I was like, this isn't me at all that I'd be like so nervous that I was saying yes to someone who didn't really like know my style, even though that seems crazy. But that's already taken care of. Now let him just be himself and do what he wants to do and and just accept that. And and I think you're fine. The joy of this should be. that you don't know what it is or have a conception of what it is. Like that I think without overstepping my bounds, like you probably shouldn't have a preconceived notion

of what your engagement should be. That's the whole point of an engagement, you know? Yeah, I don't know that I've, well, I'm asking, I guess you ladies, in your mind, I know often the trope of like, oh, I've thought of my wedding day forever since I was a little girl, so on and so forth. But is the proposal really something you have thought about?

Not really, no. But once I met Matt and I knew we probably were going to get engaged, I was kind of just like would ponder what it would be like. I know what I wouldn't want, but I know that Craig would know that I, like, at a like a sporting event or like, you know, something where it's like the kiss cam. You know a straightforward flash mob girl. Oh, yes, yes, yes, definitely. If he is taking her to WrestleMania in New Orleans to propose to her at WrestleMania,

I'm assuming he's going to live and let die filming locations. Anytime we go to Sidney, walk, I think today's the day. Were you heading that because you think maybe women often think of their wedding day, men sometimes think of their proposal of what they do. I think that's true.

I never thought of my wedding. I always thought of what the proposal would be like, you know? Because I know. The girl never said yes. You would always propose and she'd say no and you go, oh. Back to the drawing. But I would say no in very funny ways in my mind. Oh, yes, yes. Yes, that's nice. Oh.

So, yeah, I think for that, I think she should absolutely just, oh, bit of advice. So yes, let him do what he's going to do. Don't worry too much about it. You can start worrying when you're planning your wedding day. But the beauty of the proposal is it's hopefully an intimate event that not many people are going to be a witness to. And then when you take photos later, put the dress on that you want to put on, follow up. Please do not just post a photo of your hand with the ring on. Oh, yes, yes, yes.

pet peeve. And no one cares about it as much as you do, honestly. And just remember that. But like, honest to God, like, this is a moment between the two of you and the more you think, like, oh, what dress or like the pictures. And that's all fine if you want it to be with you and, you know, but know that no one's going to care about those pictures as much as you think. And it's not going to be perfect and neither is your wedding and neither is your marriage.

And that's because it's real. Well, I think. And it's better that it's not perfect. It would be perfectly imperfect. Yes. Yeah. And Amanda and Matt have a great DJ. they can.

Oh, God. Yeah, DJ Gettler. But I would also say regarding your dress question, if it's not stressful for you to buy a dress or it's not too much of a strain on your budget, treat yourself. Go get another dress and feel super cute on your trip and have so much fun.

But then don't be weird if she, like, is wearing heels and a dress and he's, like, wearing a button down or like an open shirt or whatever, a T-shirt. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa. No, let her do whatever she wants and what she feels like. No, no, no, but then I don't want her to be like walking through cobblestone streets being like, oh, I can't believe you didn't tell me I shouldn't wear heels. Like they're going on a hike.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, you should take your cue from right. Yeah, whatever he's wearing. If he comes out in sweatpants, then, you know, have fun in New Orleans. You know what they always say. Dress for the proposal you don't want. Yeah, but just let go of any expectations.

And B, you should be, you know, don't, I'm just worry for her because I understand the kind of person she is and I can relate. Don't let your brain spiral about it about what it wasn't. Just focus on the good. And this is the guy you're marrying. You're the planner in the relationship. So don't expect it to be exactly what you would do. But it's going to be perfect for what he, you know, is able to do.

Also, if you don't want to buy another dress, I recommend rent the runway. I love rent the runway. You're going to have a sponsorship. You're going to need it for all your wedding. Hang on. Use the promo code, excellent for rent the runway. Excellent. Get yourself a couple bucks.

off courtesy of Matt and Dory. Oh, there you go. Excellent. That's excellent. That's nice. Yeah. Okay, guys, well, I think this has been such a great episode. I can't believe it.

I mean, yeah. A fabulous crossover. That's right. Thank you guys for doing this. And check out next week on James Bonding where Maria and Amanda will return for Thunderball. Oh, guys, my casino joke will finally make sense. Yeah. And then I'll do my outro.

Hey, guys. Thanks so much for listening. Where can people find, so for our listeners, I know there's a lot of James Bonding listeners right now, but for our listeners, where can people find James Bonding or, you know, look up you guys or if they want to see what you guys are up to? We have a social media account,

a couple of them that are run by our head of social. We call her S, it's Emily Schmelley, at James Bonding Pod on Twitter, right? I think that's our... Oh, and it's actually at Bond James Bonding. Oh, that's fun. Isn't it? No, because there was.

wasn't enough space. Well, the point is, type in James bonding into your search field. James bonding pod. Yeah, at James bonding pod on Twitter. That'll get you to everything you need to get to. He is at Matt Goreley, G-O-U-R-L-E-Y, and I'm Matt Myra at Matt Myra, M-I-R-A, and that's where we are. That's right.

Well, great. Well, thank you guys so much. As always, you can find us on Gmail at the big, nope, the big ones podcast. The Big Ons podcast at gmail.com and on Twitter at The Big Onspod. We've got a Patreon page that we'd love for you guys to subscribe to. And for all the James Bonding listeners, please subscribe to the big ones. This is just a little taste. Yeah.

Yeah, please do. Help these who are probably some of your favorite guests out by subscribing to their show. It will help them immensely. Yeah, it really will because we're not getting a lot of listeners and we want listeners. Yeah, we love the listeners. You do all right. Well, we, yeah, we, yeah. We get a lot of great listeners.

We love our listeners. They're being modest. They have outpaced cereal. No one's ever seen that way like this. They're getting 4 million downloads a week. And that's the breakfast product. They're getting more downloads than people that buy serious. No, we'd love more listeners.

And, you know, we're just happy to be in the podcast world. Yes, thank you. It's a very fun, it was a very fun premise. Yeah. Yeah, I thought that was great. And you guys were great guests. Thank you for having us on. Well, thanks for listening to the big world.

James Big Ones. James Big Ones. James. James Big Ones will return. The Big James. With Thunderbubon. Hey, everyone. Scott Ackerman here,

host of Comedy Bang Bang, and thanks for listening to this show. And I want to tell you, I have a great episode of my show, Comedy Bang Bang, floating around out there, out there in the internet. Our good friend John Hamm,

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You can subscribe to Comedy Bang Bang on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher or wherever. Honestly, you want to. I'm not here to tell you where to do it. Or I guess I just did. Anyway, Comedy Bang Bang, John Hamm this week, check it out. This has been an Earwolf production, executive produced by Scott Ackerman, Chris Bannon, and Colin Anderson. For more information and content, visit Earwolf.com. Hey, this is Arnie Neacamp from the Improft Fantasy podcast. Hello from the Magic Tavern.

I fell through a dimensional portal behind a Burger King in Chicago into the magical land of food, and I started a podcast. Season 3 has just begun with a brand new adventure to defeat the Dark Lord. If you're a new listener or you've fallen behind season 3 is a great jumping on point. And we've got great guests like Justin McElroy. I sat like a fancy college professor. Fake nuts. Rachel Bloom. You all see my collection of men corpses and one woman.

Felicia Day and Colton Dunn. You've seen me have intercourse with a variety of species. It's a bummer. Andy Daly. You have the members of Genesis listed. But Phil Collins has crossed out and then circledly crossed out again. Yes. I have killed Phil Collins twice.

Thomas Middletch. Jesus. I mean, John. Ruler of the eighth circle. And that's just the beginning. Season three, A Fellow from the Magic Tavern is out now. Listen in Stitcher, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.