Jim Cornette Experience - Episode 610: Special Edition

Episode Date: December 2, 2025

This week on the Experience, Jim puts together his list of 1984's Top 20 Wrestlers In Their 20s! Plus, Guess The Program! Also, Jim does a MX vs. RNR watch-along, and answers YOUR questions about righting AEW's ship, Gorilla Monsoon running the WWF, Crockett Cup '87, Ultimate Warrior's last WWE match, and much more!  Thanks to our episode sponsors: SHOPIFY:  Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com/jce. HELIX:  Go to helixsleep.com/jce for 27% Off Sitewide exclusive for listeners of the Jim Cornette Experience!  AURA FRAMES:  Exclusive $35 off Carver Mat at https://on.auraframes.com/JCE or use promo code JCE. RAYCON:  Raycon audio products are up to 20% off this holiday season. Go to buyraycon.com/JCEOPEN to save on Raycon audio products sitewide. @TheJimCornette @GreatBrianLast Join Jim Cornette's College Of Wrestling Knowledge on Patreon to access the archives & more! https://www.patreon.com/Cornette Subscribe to the Official Jim Cornette channel on YouTube! http://www.youtube.com/c/OfficialJimCornette Visit Jim's official site at www.JimCornette.com for merch, live dates, commentaries and more! You can listen to Brian on the 6:05 Superpodcast at 605pod.com or wherever you find your favorite podcasts!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Like the midnight and the rock and roll. He's in a fight for wrestling soul. Using a racket and some mind control. He's in Kornet. The keys to the future. Hell by Nets. Heaven. It's a special edition today so that I can get some peace and dadgum quiet.

And joining me for all this and so much more. Hawaiian Brian the podcasting line, the king of the Arcadian Vanguard podcast network, Mr. co-host to you. Gobble, Gobble, he's my Turkey Day delight. The great Brian Last, everybody. Aloha, Jim. A pleasure to be here once again.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and all the listeners, they'll be hearing this, I guess, a few days after Thanksgiving, but... And we don't care, because here's where the premise of today's episode, ladies and gentlemen, is that at the holiday time, when everybody across the country, not in Canada, though, they already did it. Everybody across the country is celebrating Thanksgiving, we, me and Brian, would have had to disrupt our lives and break ourselves away from our loving families

to sit down and record a show on Thanksgiving weekend unless we were able to figure out a way to do it beforehand, and that's what we have done today. We're not reviewing any kind of modern wrestling. We're going to have some fun, about a variety of topics that are evergreen and full of joy for the holidays. And then we get our three-day break. Is that about sum it up, Brian?

I think that about sums it. I don't know how much of a break we're going to have, but there's another pay-per-view around the corner, but there really is no break when you really think about it. Yeah, this is. There's no rest for the weary. Yeah, this is what it is. It is what it do. Well, and this show will be what it will be.

Folks, we hope that you had a wonderful Thanksgiving, and we hope that you have a wonderful Thanksgiving. hope that you will come back and listen to the drive-through at a few days when we go over the Survivor Series situation. But until then, enjoy the work that we have created for your pleasure over the holiday weekend here to show. Well, Brian here, since it's the holidays and we don't want to talk about anything stressful and problematic and et cetera, we thought we'd cheer ourselves up a little bit and the people to cultivate for it at the same time you have done a little homework here because we were talking on one of the recent shows about the ages of the wrestlers and how

that everybody thinks it's everybody's younger now than in the old days and in actual fact as Adrian Street would say it's a it's a tether way around the guys actually as a whole even the big money players were younger in the territory days. And you have done a little homework to illustrate that with the ages of everyone in that pivotal year of 1984. Mid-South wrestling caught on fire. Dallas was still hot with the Von Erics and the Freebirds. Vince was beginning his national expansion, blah, blah, blah. And there was a ton of major names in the business that were,

active on a full-time basis. So you have made that list, and we thought we would take a look. What was the 20 people in their 20s that, that ought to be 86th or something, some list from some off-brand publication? Yeah, we've done a few segments recently that kind of triggered the idea, one being the look at the 20 best wrestlers in their 20s. and when we were discussing that, you know, it was kind of alarming how few potential stars, future star, current stars there are in their 20s.

And that caused you to go look at Mid-South Wrestling in 84, which is why I stuck to 1984 for this example, and look at some of the ages on that roster. We've also been discussing who are main eventors on the current roster? Both companies have tons of wrestlers signed up. how many of them are main eventers? So again, it caused me to go back to 1984 and put together a list of everyone's ages, everyone in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, and that one in their 60s.

Technically one teen. Tonga kids should be on the teenager list. He wasn't yet 20 that year. But we can look at this, talk about this, and maybe you could put together your top 20 in their 20s for 1984, which is a real tough list. That's tough. The one they did in whatever it was,

Bleacher Report or whatever, that was a nonsense list, but there aren't a lot of candidates. You look at 84, it's ridiculous. Well, yeah, the list that we read showed the the dearth, if you will, of, you know, people that are truly already, I mean, there's a lot of people in developmental,

but I'm talking about already experienced, already having been a proven business factor in a place, made of ended major events that drew for the era, certainly more people in 1984 on average for events, just not the same finances, but you get the drift. And, you know, that's because guys that got in the wrestling business in those days, except if you had somebody transitioning from pro, football had already been a professional in in one sport or another and then made the

transition they might start later and occasionally you know you'd get a guy at his mid 20s that Stan lane started late but he looked so youthful but most of the time guys were getting into business as soon as they as soon as they could and you know teenagers or late teenagers and early 20s and if you wrestled regularly in those days you were wrestling literally six and seven nights a week so the experience that you got and working with a variety of different people if you debuted when you were 19 by the time you were 24 you kind of knew what the fuck was going on pretty much everywhere if you were any good or going to be any good at all you had five years experience wrestling 300 times a year.

You know, and another thing to think about as you start talking about this list, on the top 20 in their 20s for 2025 were, for instance, Daniel Garcia and Wheeler Yuda, you can't even imagine guys like that would exist on this list in 1984. It's a different kind of person, different look. It's just a different breed of wrestler that were wrestlers. back then. Daniel Garcia. And again, I'm not even trying to blister these guys personally. I'm just stating a fact and anybody can go and look at video and see. Garcia and Yuta would be guys that were doing jobs on television or, you know, like the guys that maybe, you know, Nelson Royal was going to train over in North Carolina to do some jobs around the local shows and to Carolina, whatever. they, no, there would have been no room.

There's no look, there's no promo, there's no personality, there's no gimmick. There were hundreds of guys that would have been standing in front of them for all the territories. Well, with that a preamble, why don't we talk about wrestlers who were in their 20s in 1984? Now, for this list, Jim, if you turn 30 in 84, I did not include you. you would be in the list of people who were in their 30s in 1984. Right. So again, minus my mistake, which was putting Tonga Kid here, he was 19. These are wrestlers in their 20s.

And again, as we're going through this, mark off or state who you think would be in a top 20, and then we can kind of break it down from there. Barry Windham. And hold on one second. This is not, I just want to say one more thing. This is not a complete list of all the wrestlers. that were wrestling in 1984, actually, because, I mean, there were still a bunch of others

that may have slipped through the cracks here, but these are main names that would be recognized in a variety of places in the business at that time. Would that be fair for me to say? Yeah, I guess you could say these were all stars or featured wrestlers of one kind or another in the business in 1984. It's a different business as, I mean, just reading through the list,

that'll tell you that. So, Jim, not in any specific order, but here are wrestlers who were in their 20s in 1984. Barry Windham, who was born July 1960, he was 24 years old.

Oh, good Lord. And he was already had been featured in Florida and was starting the first WWF run, right, in 84, and then came back down south. We've talked about Barry,

he bounced back and forth between Crockett and the NWA and WWF for several years there, but he was already one of the best in-ring baby faces in the business. And in three years later, in 1987, he's 27 years old. Did he have the greatest Rick Flair matches

with Flair wrestling anybody not named Steamboat? He was just, I mean, so smooth and incredibly agile and safe and never hurt himself or anybody else but was doing all that stuff, just effortlessly, just a natural. So he got to be a top, he was one of the top five in-ring workers in the business a couple years later, so he's got to be top 20 here. And even in terms of K-Fave, in terms of a push, star in Florida, brief run in mid-Atlantic,

goes to the WWF, instant push with Mike Rotunda as a top tag team, top baby face tag team. Jim born July 1957, Brett Hart. And Brett was just starting to get used on a national basis at this point, but he had already been in the business

for about seven years, I believe, maybe, you know, a little longer, whatever. And obviously everybody knows Brett's pedigree. Brett Hart, at this point in time, was, you know, he was, you know, he wasn't even a real main event level guy,

but he was still featured and had worked, obviously, Calgary and was starting for Vince and had so much talent. Nobody can say, there's another top 20 guy, I would think, already with two out of two. All right, let me put that down. Bradhart, 27 years old. Born January, 1959, 25 years old,

Brian Blair. Brian Blair, 25 years old now, now he's a politician of a variety of kinds. Brian Blair had been used in Florida, was a member of the Killer Bees with Brunzel and what did they start in 84, 85? Excellent worker, good baby-faced. I don't think he's going to be top 20 on this list

just because of this fucking list. And actually, this age may not be correct. I see something else here that says he was born of 57, so still in his 20s, but this may not be completely accurate. Now I've got to wonder about everything else on this list. Oh, good heavens, it's your list. It's my list. Jim,

born in April 1957, which would have made him 27 years old, Brutus Beefcake. Well, bless him, he was about to be a big star. but his in-ring to that point had been less than spectacular. And I mean, you know, Dizzy Hogan, Eddie Boulder, et cetera, et cetera, but within a couple of years, he would be a big deal. Again, because of this list, I don't think he's going to make the top 20.

Here's an interesting one because you almost never think of him as, oh, that wrestler in his 20s, ha, 25 years old, Buzz Sawyer. Buzz, I've got pictures of him when he was 19 and he was almost bald. So he always, and he had that giant melon head, he always did. God damn, Buzz Sawyer in 1984

had already had the top run in Atlanta, the feud with Tommy Rich, business-wise had been featured in several different places. He'd already had a run in Dallas by that point, I think. And obviously in the ring, everybody knows he was goddamn almost one of a kind. He was just an asshole and a fucking drug addict. But besides those things, again, I don't know about a top 20, but we'll put a question mark. All right. We note that. Buzz saw your question mark.

Jim born August 1961, Hot Stuff Eddie Gilbert. Eddie Gilbert, born one month before me. At that point, Eddie had main-evended his first run in Memphis against Lawler and then gone to, he was about to go. No, he was still main-eventing that year against Lawler, the first run. But he'd been in the business. He started working outlaw shows in Arkansas where they didn't have a commission or Missouri, I should, Maldon, Missouri.

when he was still 17, and as soon as he turned 18, he could get a license in Tennessee. So he had five years' experience at that point. He was about to go to work for Watts in Mid-South, end up booking down there, you know, push-sting, et cetera, et cetera. And then everybody's familiar with Eddie's career, you know, from then on. Again, he's not top 20 because what do you say? see some of these names, but boy.

And again, we're speaking specifically about 84, so it's not like top 20 and 84, you know, how they were in 85 or anything. 84, he becomes Hot Stuff Eddie Gilbert. He creates the gimmick when he comes back to Memphis, gets his first heel run, and that's, you know,

kind of the beginning of hot stuff Eddie Gilbert right there. So, not on your top 20. Well, just, I know everybody's going to say, well, he's pissing on it. Wait, do you see the rest of these names? folks. Again, another one of those names that I hadn't even thought about. Yeah, he would have been on that list, top 20 in their 20s. You don't see anyone like this nowadays. Jim at 26 years old, the dynamite kid. And he wouldn't turn 26 until December of 1984. He, there's a top 20, Check him already.

Revolutionized the junior heavyweight division in Japan was one of the all-time most spectacular workers was an insane physical condition until he had to blow himself up on the gas to go to work for events. But the, what, 79 to 83 period, Jesus, Christ was there an athlete like that in the world? and the aura that he projected. And his shit looked like it killed you, and he could if he wanted to. But I've talked to guys that Danny Davis worked with. They never touched him.

So, yeah, top 20, Dynamite Kid, for fuck's sake. At 22 years old, born November 62, Davy Boy Smith. And Davey Boy was about to, with dynamite, 84, they were about to head to New York. Davey boy is a question mark on a top 20 again just because of this list, but he had already worked Calgary, Japan. They had a reputation, the Bulldogs as a team, you know, and 22 years old. At 26 years old, Mike Rotunda.

And we just talked about Mike here recently on a show, but he had already, this was before the varsity club. That would happen about three years later, but four years later, whatever, but he'd already been used in Florida as a baby face. He was an up-and-coming. He's not a top 20 guy at this point in 1984. But, you know, what a talent.

25 years old, Paul Roma. In Roma, looked great. I mean, if you went back and looked at Paul Roma's matches right now with today's eye, he'd probably be one of the most solid workers in the business. But did he ever stand out to you compared to some of the other people on the list? He did, but not in 1984. Again, we're talking about the very, very beginning of his career.

He was used as an enhancement guy mostly on TV or working the first match on, you know, small shows. he wasn't yet in power and glory and everything else. At 21 years old, Samu, Samuan number three. Well, some people may remember him better as Samu and Fatu of the Samoan Swat team. They had not been used at that point, but were, he's 21 years old by, what was it? he and Fatu by what, 87, 88 were teaming. 88, yeah, they were in world class with Buddy Roberts. Yeah, and then came to WCW.

So he's not a top 20 guy here, but he's 21 years old. He's already in the business. He's getting experience in the next few years. He's going to be a main event guy in a number of places. 23 years old, born April 61, Steve Lombardi. The brawler! For longevity, he may be the number one guy on this list. But again, you know, wonderful guy, good worker because of the class that he's in,

he's not going to make that top 20 list. Also born April 61, 23 years old, Terry Bam Bam Gordy. Heck. Where's your horn? No, don't do it. People are mad at you. Terry Gordy at 23 years old in 1984. had already main evented the Superdome in Louisiana.

The Freebirds drew tons of money in New Orleans, not New Orleans, not just New Orleans, but all over Mid-South territory. They'd been on the Super Station out of Atlanta, been Georgia Championship Wrestling's top heel team. They'd gone and set Dallas on fire with Devon Erics and was still there, and it was still drawn money. and within, you know, what, next year or so would get to be one of the top foreigners in Japan, he was fucking amazing.

There's no, there's no talent today like Terry Gordy was in, shit in 1981, much less 1984. When he was only 20, he was phenomenal. Well, Jim, speaking of people who started as teenagers, again, I included him here. We'll just briefly mention him, although he's not eligible for the list. The Tonga kid, born April 1965, famously sold out the garden where Roddy Piper as a teenager. And he was the stopgap measure when Snuka went sideways, right? That's right.

And so he kind of stepped into a spot, but at the same point, he carried the ball there and people remember him. So he's a, I don't think he's top 20 in. this list, but he was already a main event guy. He's 19 years old. In terms of people who had a very interesting 1984, at 23 years old, member of the Midnight Express, Wendy Richter. Wendy! She was an honorary member because she helped us against that nasty old Hacksaw Jim Duggan. And then she was in the garden, what, six months later or whatever. No, like a month later.

Like it wasn't six months later. It was. It was like a month later. Son of a bitch. As somebody actually sent a telegram back when you could do that kind of thing, I still have it. A telegram

to, I think it was the TV station in one of the Mid-South markets and they gave it to me a TV one day. And it said, grab your tennis racket and your can of ether. Your honorary member is fighting in the

garden on whatever date. And one of the fans just, yeah, it was a cute little thing. Does she go on a top 20 in their 20s for 84? I think she has to just because of the head, the drawing position, the money drawing position. I mean,

Wendy was not going to be, you know, confused with Ria Ripley in the ring, but she was probably the biggest name female wrestler of an entire generation. You know, it's crazy, I never thought about it until I put together this list. We'll probably talk about the 30s and the 40s and the 50s a little bit later, but there's only one name in the 60s, 61 years old fabulous Mula.

She's in a feud with Wendy Richter. It's almost a 40-year-age cat. That's fucking incredible. I never thought of it that way. Boy, howdy. And see, I'd tell you, I'd met Wendy in, what was it, 1980? So how old would, so she was 19 when she was the Dallas cowgirl, Wendy Richter. And I have pictures, not that kind of pictures.

I have publicity pictures that I took when she came through. I think she worked with Mula one night. And she really did a lot of work to drop some baby fat, as they say, between that point in 84 and she'd got where you know she fit to fucking gimmick perfectly but she had been working for a while Jim another interesting name you never really think

oh that guy when he was in his 20s 26 years old Arne Anderson well and everybody gives the picture of like a wrestler's baby pictures and it'll be all baby pictures and then there's Arne like from the 80s

when he was 30 or whatever he'd never changed I met Arne in the summer of 83. He had just started working as Arne Anderson. And that's when he and Matt Bourne had been a team until Born fucked up and it left him floundering. And he happened to be on the card in Columbus, Georgia, the last night we were going to be in Columbus. And Dundee had all of the guys that were going back to Tennessee. they all ran in and Arne beat him up or did something or whatever.

He said he's the only one staying. So at this point, I think he was in Alabama, right, getting his first kind of legitimate teaming with Jerry Stubbs. Push as a single. Well, I was going to say as a single, but he was teaming with Stubbs first, but 83, 84 had been the first time anybody really used Arne. So that's a tough one because,

it would be another year before he would really get a main event push, but he was already so good. I mean, he would definitely be on your list for 85, right? Yeah, oh, God, yeah. It's just, if you're sticking to 84, was he, was he there at that point? But I'm putting the question mark down because he may well be when we finish. Jim, born June of 62, 22 years old, Brad Armstrong. strong. Twenty-two. And again, Brad was always good. And in, what was it, 80 and 81, he was just so darn skinny. But then he really started working out. And by the mid-80s, he looked so phenomenal physically. His work was so smooth. All the guys wanted to work with him. You know, everybody, loved him as a worker

he had gotten pushes in Alabama and Georgia and Knoxville by that point in time and was in main events he didn't draw the money nationally that a lot of these guys would go on to do but god damn he's so fucking good I think do you have to put him on the list

and again in 84 yeah I mean 84 you had a good little run in Georgia right with the Mr. R thing with Tommy Rich. Yeah. You know, he was used pretty good. You know, is he in the top 20? Again, I guess when you were, if you were making this list in 84, you're kind of projecting what you think 85 or 86 could be.

Do you want to put him on the list or put him as a question mark? Well, let's put a question down there. Check question. Okay, Brad Armstrong, question mark. Borisukov, 25 years old. he was still Jim Nelson wasn't he he'd been Jim Nelson in 83

that's right I guess he may have still been I'm not exactly sure actually so he'd go on to be a different person but for the sake of this list he didn't actually exist yet 26 years old and I guess you could argue 1984 was the year the world discovered him the world of wrestling Bobby Eaton

well I think it's no secret I would have put a check mark here But it actually, if we're going by 1984, he's part of the team that drew record money in one of the largest territories to country. So that applies. And again, he's another guy. Everybody wanted to work with him because he wouldn't have heard him and he made him look like a million dollars. And it was a night off. So in the ring and respect from peers and drawing money.

Bob Eaton's a checkmark. Also from the 84 Mid-South roster, 23 years old Buddy Landell. He would turn 24 in August. Boy, buddy. He was just starting to get used in Louisiana in 84.

The thing with Butch Reed and being the, you know, Eddie Haskell to Butch. Watts loved him. Dundee loved him. Dusty loved him. Between 83 and 85, and 85

Buddy, not only was a phenomenal worker, he was in shape, he could fucking talk, and everybody was wanting to use him. And his shit looked phenomenal. And then he lost control of himself. But if you didn't know that was going to happen, I think you could argue, notwithstanding in 1985,

1984 was kind of the year that Buddy Landel became a star and everyone's like, this is a future star. And so I think you have to put him on the list of 1984, because if he hadn't done to himself the things he did to himself, he would have been figured into the Crockett run in the 80s, and he would have been used on top. Jim, at 26 years old, Kurt Henning.

And here's another name. I mean, my God, Henig had already, he turned pro. he was still a teenager, right? He was so thin, so painfully thin. He was in the WWF. When was the first time? Was it 81 or was it 82? 82, I guess, we could say safely.

Yeah, but he had started working before that. Obviously, he would go on to, within the next few years, be another guy that was into running for, he's the best in the business in the ring, et cetera. In 84, he was still working. working for Vern, right? Was that the team with Scott Hall? No, not yet. I think 84. I don't even remember if he did anything in Portland still in 84, but 84 was him and his dad against the Road Warriors is what I remember. That's right.

So I think he was still teaming with his dad and doing stuff with his dad in the AWA. I think, obviously he's at least a question mark. Do you want to come back based on what he was doing in 1984. Let me write that down. Current Head-ink on the question mark list. Here's an interesting one for 84. Twenty-nine years old, gentleman Chris Adams. And he had already started the run with the valets and Garvin and Sunshine and Precious and et cetera in Dallas and was featured on national television. He'd only been in the country two years. Then he's, 81 or 82, he started in Los Angeles. I believe. So he's already a main event fucking guy.

And actually that was 84 and 85 and that was as good as it was going to get, wasn't it? Well, 84-2, he was, I think you could argue, the biggest baby face next to the Von Erick's. I would say he was probably more popular than Iceman Parsons at that point. Yes. And then he turned heel against Kevin, which kind of began, I guess you could argue the best run of his wrestling career, him and Gino.

Yeah. Chris and Gino. So again, 29 years old, but 84 is kind of the year that everything works out for Chris Adams. Yeah. So he's a check mark. All right. Let me put him on the list. Chris Adams.

He's the oldest on the list so far. Think about that. We got nine people already. And one, two, three, four, five question marks. someone you know well from 84 24 24 years old Dr. Death Steve Williams Just the the prospects, the recruiting efforts

by all these territories, all these fucking names in 1984 Doc had already been used as a baby face, not in the main events but because he didn't start till 82 So 84 really was when Watts turned him heel and started really pushing him. And because of that, I think that's the upward momentum in 1984. He had been a baby face and he was already over. But then it was the match with Hercules Hernandez and Jim Duggan in New Orleans.

Doc was the referee. I paid him off and he fucking turned on Duggan. switched he over then the baby faces came in and shaved my head anyway and then that was the trigger for the next year doc and debaasi as a top heel team doc would go to japan blah blah blah but he was getting his first major push in midsouth wrestling in 84 so that would that would definitely have to be a question mark at least right i wasn't sure where you were going let me put him on the question mark list well i'm thinking it if not a check mark I'm going to put a check in a question.

You brought him up before. 28 years old, Hercules Hernandez. Jesus Christ, he was 28? Has there ever been since then, and the 40 years since then, Brian, a guy with that kind of body ripped at that size and that weight

that could take backdrops and fucking big bumps like he did? and move like that. It just, it was amazing. You know, when people like me first saw after the fact, the television shows of Mid-South and 84, that was one of the big revelations was, oh my God, Hercke, because you kind of knew him as a different guy in the WWF,

even before Power and Glory, like 89, 90 is the baby face with the blue trunks. Yeah. He moved differently. He paced things differently. He wasn't as wild an action. impact. You see him in 84. He's one of the best. I mean, you could argue in 84. He's one of the best big guys in the business. Yeah. And see, that's the thing. Hercules was so fucking big and cut and, you know, energetic in his work and et cetera, and moved like that. And that was a calling

card everywhere else in Florida, even in Mid-South with those big guys, he stood out. And he had been use, he was my bodyguard in 84. He was working to programs with all the top baby faces. But Vince's land of the giants, he got even bigger. Instead of being, in mid-south, I bet he had a 34-inch waist. I mean, it would just

he had bulk, but he had movable bulk. He was ripped and cut more and just, he looked physically phenomenal. after five more years when he gets in the Vince mix and he's doing all the sauce that he's been doing but now he's doing more of it he was just thick everywhere

and big to keep up with that crew and that cut way down on his mobility not only five years later but another 40 pounds that's why I say in in mid-south he was easily 260 to 270 but with a fucking, like I said, a 34-inch waist or whatever. It was a whole other thing when he got to be past 300 pounds.

So what do you do with him for this exercise? For 84. God damn. Oh, he was so good. Let's put a question mark. Because we're running out of spots because look at the next name. Well, the next name on the list. Again, another guy you don't think of as being in his 20s,

29 years old. Jake the Snake Roberts. And Jake had already main-a-vented several runs in Louisiana, and he'd been in Dallas and a variety of places all over the country and was within what a year of starting for Vince? He's already a draw and attraction, you know, and he's only going upward. I think he's got to be on the list, don't you? I don't know.

Or on a check. For 84, I don't. don't know, because again, he starts the year. He's a star in Georgia. He has the feud at Ron Garvin. You know, the end of 83 is in the Legion of Doom, but 84 he's in Georgia. Then he goes to Dallas where he wasn't, he wasn't the top heel as part of the group. He was kind of mixed in with Gino and Chris, but they were clearly slotted above him. I don't know. See, I, I also, I remember. 85, I think, is the year that Jake, like, you're like, oh yeah, this guy's a complete fucking star. But 84, I don't know if it was. I don't know if it was. I don't know. I don't know. I don't

was as a parent. Okay, well, let's give him a question mark. But I remember he was also making shots for Mid-South when he was in Dallas in 84 because he was on some shows we were on. So he was still bouncing around in demand. But we will question mark it. Another person from Mid-South, 84, although he would move on and go to Memphis and then I believe end up in Florida by the end of the year, at least early 85, 29 years old, Jim Knightheart. The end. And, I think he doesn't make the top 20 just because the list is so crowded. But again, in 84, Watts is, he's tailor made for Watts. He's already had the run in Stampede for Stu.

But Watts loved a big, legitimate athlete like that. And he used him real well in 83 and 84. And then, as you said, he went on different places and ended up in working for Vince also, but in 80, the 84 wasn't necessarily, everybody's going, Jim Nighthart, next big thing. Well, here's someone who had a hell of an 84. He won the world title. 24 years old, Kerry von Erick. Yeah, he's kind of got to go on the list, doesn't he? The biggest fucking star of the year as far as the NWA and as far as being a baby face is concerned, and drew the record gate in his.

history of the wrestling business. So he has to kind of be there. One of the most sought after people by Vince McMahon that he didn't get at that time was Gary Von Erick. But also on the list here, Jim, 27 years old, Kevin Von Erick. Boy, he was, again, had drawn nothing but money for the previous few years in Dallas. We've been talking about Dallas lately and how the Von Erick boys turned it around where they were doing almost no money in that territory in the late 70s. Geez, does Kevin get on this list just because it's so crowded and Kerry sapped a lot of his steam that year,

but he's still a major fucking name. He's been to Florida. He had that run in Georgia in the early 80s. People had seen him on a couple of different nationally broadcast shows, Georgia and the syndication. Or, I mean, is he also, is he a check mark? This is getting crowded. Again, I think Kevin is a candidate up until at least 85.

84. Number two baby fish, you could argue, to his brother. Big Star, Super Over. Has the feud with Chris Adams. I brought it up for Chris Adams. Got to bring it up for Kevin Von Erick because it was a great feud. Had that big match at the Cotton Bowl where he gave Chris Adams. If he beat Chris Adams, like, I'm going to give you a chance, do the right thing.

you come in and then Chris out of Super kicked him and kicked the shit out of and hospitalized him. But I think if Kevin Bonnerick is going to be on the list, I mean, 83 and 84, 84, 85, I might do it. I might. Well, let's give him a check and we'll come back and count later. Also, 27 years old.

Coco where? Coco, uh, Coco started. when he was, let's see, he started in 1977, so he was 20 years old. At that point, he had seven years of experience. He had been a underneath baby face in Memphis, but then they used him on top against Lawler as a heel, managed by Jimmy Hart. He and Bobby Eaton were the Southern tag team champions. But he had mostly stayed in Memphis at that point. and really he wouldn't get the national birdman thing for a while yet.

So I don't think Coco's a gimmy for the top 20. But actually, it's amazing that his best years in the ring were, let's see, he was between 23 and 26, because once he left Memphis and went to New York, he never had another good match. But he was goddamn awe-inspiring in Memphis. Just how good were him and Bobby Eaton live as a team? Almost as good as Bobby Eaton and Dennis Condry. It's just you didn't have Dennis to steer the ship,

but Coco could do wilder things off the top rope sometimes than Bobby did. So it was a whole different kind of thing. Jim, another interesting name that you never think of as being in his 20s. At 26 years old, the Barbarian, although he may still have been Conga, the Barbarian at this point. maybe he was King Konga that year. Yeah, again, what a talent. And people remember him to this day, incredible size, the way he could move.

He just, he's crowded by the names on the list. And at that particular point, I think he was probably, he was never featured as a main event level guy on his own, but he was in a lot of heel factions. But yeah, I think he gets crowded off. Jim, at 25 years old, someone you know well from Mid-South Wrestling, and again later in the NWA for Crockett Promotions, Crusher, Crucev, Barry Darso.

Who would also later on become the repo man and then demolition with Billy... That's right. Smash. You know, this was the year he was getting his first push from Watts when he became a Russian sympathizer. And he was still at that point, Crusher Darso, but he was making the transition

that he would then take to Crock at Crusher, Crucev. But, boy, you know, he was getting a push too. And Barry wasn't yet really a polished performer because he'd only been working a couple of years at that point. But I think he's crowded out because of the company here. and friends we will continue on with this list in a moment but first a very special message for you boy i tell you what brian back in nineteen eighty four they didn't have the all the internet

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Yeah there's no need to malign the poor fella but no another interesting one here 25 years old Michael P.S. Hayes He's got to be a check mark. I mean, at that point the only difference between him and Gordy

was Gordy was a phenomenal worker and Michael's in-ring work was passable at best. But everything else about Michael, the ideas, the gimmick, the fucking promo, the aura. They did as much to bring rock and roll music to wrestling as anybody else.

So, yeah, he's got to and they'd drawn record houses in, again, Louisiana, Georgia, Dallas, sold out reunion arena, on and on. So I don't see how you can't, right? I agree. Jim at 24 years old, Marty Genetti.

Marty was already a pretty good, dagum worker. He'd been around for a couple of years at that point, but he hadn't really been, he was getting used in like the central states, Kansas City, whatever. The uptown boys, him and the fake Tommy Rogers, Tommy Lane. Yes, and so, you know, not yet. Here's an interesting one. 25 years old

Magnum T.A. Boom. This was in 83, he'd already been obviously used to some extent in Florida and Portland. But when he got to Mid-South, Watts made him in wrestling two tag team champions

in 83. And that ran until we got there and beat him for it, where then he immediately had T.A. win a program against two who had turned on him, and by the end of the year, Magnum T.A. is the North American Heavyweight Champion. He's working in the big shows with top guys. How can he not be a check mark? He was one of the most upwardly mobile guys of 1984. Absolutely. So when you think of, when you think of Magnum, also 25 years. old, Nikita Koloff.

Where? Shit. We're a year away from him and Flair for the first time. That's right. That was the 85 first Great American Bash in the ballpark in Charlotte. But this was the start of the build

for all of that. Nikita Koloff didn't exist in the wrestling business before 1984. But he would be not only get a major push in 1984, but then end up being one of the biggest names in the NWA for the next three years, and then a variety of thing.

His career was curtailed early. But I don't think he can be, can he be a confirmed check at this point in time? Because it's not 85, or does he have to be a question mark? I think I would wait until 85 just because he was, he was the biggest he ever was in 84, but he was kind of Uncle Ivan's secret weapon more than someone doing a lot yet. It's interesting, though, looking at this list and specifically the idea of what wrestlers were in their 20s then versus now, the guys who came out of Minnesota who weren't the kids of wrestlers, none of them were like young.

It wasn't like a bunch of 19-year-old kids getting trained by Eddie Sharkey. They were already in their 20s. Yeah, well, no, they'd already had time to be. bodybuilders and flunk out at football and become bouncers and realize that that probably wasn't a great career path. And then about 23, 24 years old, boom, here we go. But you could tell, see, that was the divide in the locker room at that point between the guys that had started when they were, as soon as they were legally able, as early as teenagers,

the Gordy's and Bob Eaton's of the world. and that had been fans and watched it and they were the polished performers. But the muscle heads, as he used to call them, the guys from Minnesota, the guys with the bodies, the look, and it's been around since wrestling's been around, the freaks, the blimps, the weirdos, the muscle guys fit into the freak category at one point

because there weren't that many of them. And when the road warriors hit and Vince started pushing Hogan, that became the thing. And then the guys with the bodies got chances. Dusty was smart. He could make something out of Nikita. He'll tell you, he didn't know what the fuck was going on when he first got there. But Dusty took Nikita and in a year had 25,000 people in a ballpark to see him against Flair on the nation's birthday.

And then he took Big Bubba, who was not, is not even on this list because he hadn't even wrestled yet. But in two years, he'd see a job guy and give him a gimmick and give him a push. And within nine months, he's, you know, sold out Pittsburgh against Dusty, 16,000 people and set a record. And he's working in ballparks.

You could take the guy. guys that but for every road warriors tag team there was a big al-blake vladimir pietrov or you know the master blasters all the bodies didn't work out but if they had any concept and any talent a good booker like dusty or vince or whoever the fuck could draw money with them well jim here's another interesting one. 24 years old, former protege of yours, the one-man gang.

Moon! Moon de one-man gang, brother. He had already worked Louisiana, already worked, obviously ICW for the Pafos is where he got started

and had worked in Memphis and then gone to Louisiana, and then headed to Dallas. He was in Dallas when we got there at Christmas of 84, so he started that year, did he not? He started in 84. No, he started in Dallas, I believe, in 84, and that's when he got the gimmick,

because he had been one man gang in 83 in Mid-South and got a big push with Akbar, but he still had the long hair and just kind of the big body suit. He had started out kind of like a Crusher Broomfield, just looked like a big hillbilly. But yeah, with that gimmicks, so 84 was a year he's on world-class wrestling.

He's working with Kerry. He's managed by Gary Hart. He's figured into the reunion arenas and the cotton bowls and that's at least a question mark, is it not? Again, only 24 years old. That's what gets me there.

Yeah. Jim, another name on this list that's interesting. He starts off as an undercard guy. in 84 mid-south, and he ends up as a heel with a push in Memphis, 26 years old Rick Rood. Rick Roo, he was doing jobs on TV for us in December, 1983, and by the middle of the summer, he's the Southern Heavyweight Champion working with Loller on top in Memphis,

and become ravishing Rick Rood. And does he make this list? because at that point, that was the only thing he had done in 1984. It was pretty much work in Memphis, and they led him by the hand through that. But he's always my example of a guy who had all the tools. And if he went to the right places and worked with the right people and was trained by the right bookers,

he developed from a baby-faced job guy to a heel on top in a small territory, to a heel on top at a bigger, territory with a gimmick and then etc. So he's not on the 84 list, but he would be probably on an 85 or an 86 or an 87. Another interesting name for you here, 26 years old from the Rock and Roll Express, Robert Gibson. How does he not get a checkmark? The hottest baby face tag team in the business in Louisiana that everybody's hearing about

and Dusty and Flair won them for the Carolinas, which they'd, as soon as they left Louisiana, that's exactly where they went. They were even bigger, but 84 was the year that they exploded in Mid-South. How is Ricky and Robert kind of have to be checks, don't they? Well, we'll get to Ricky shortly, and we can discuss if they should be individual checks

or if you have to include them together. But another interesting one here, Jim, 27 years old. From the Legion of Doom, Road Warrior Hawk. And let's go. The next name. From the Legion of Doom.

From the Legion of Doom, he is 24 years old, a bit younger than Hawk, Road Warrior Animal. The Road Warriors and the Rock and Roll Express in 1984. Again, Ricky Roberts

started as a team in 83 in Memphis, but they weren't featured. Road Warriors started as a team in 83 in Georgia. Just, you know, the story is out there. They were thrown out on TV when Matt Bourne fucked up. And Oly said, Sharkey, give me your guys. And in 84, they were already major stars, Road Warriors,

and starting to travel outside the territory. I think Rock and Roll Express, Midnight Express, and Road Warriors in 84, who had more upward momentum. And you brought up Ricky Morton, so I'll say that here too. He was 28 years old, allegedly. Allegedly. In 1984.

There is, at some point, we have to get some type of FBI investigation going on on the real legitimate age of Ricky Morton. But I just prefer to say he's timeless. So what do we do? Do we put both the Road Warriors and the Rock and Roll Express together on the list or do we? You have to. You have to, but not,

that's a good way to only take up two checks instead of four, but Road Warriors and Rock and Roll Express in 1984 on a list of the top 20 guys under 20 in the business, Jesus Christ, how do you not? All right, Jim, I'm noting that down. At 28 years old,

former NWA world champion, Tommy Rich. I don't think he makes the list because he was he was already too old. Think about this. Tommy Rich started in, I don't know the date of his first match. If it wasn't November or December, 1974, it was January

1975. I know I saw what had to be one of his first five matches in person. And boy, howdy, for the first six months, you were like, What the fuck? Why are they doing this? And then he got with Tojo, and Tojo helped him.

And from the summer of 75 through, God damn, what was it? Probably the end of 70, at first part of 77, Tommy was used as a tag team champion and a Southern heavyweight champion against Lawler and a tag team champion with Bill Dundee. And then Barnett heard about him, asked, uh, Jared for Tommy and gave him that push in Atlanta where obviously he got over so good. They put the belt on him for a week.

Harley agreed to do that. He was 21 then. And then by, by 84, they've already done the program with Buzz Sawyer. I think 84 probably Tommy had more rental car accidents than sellouts. And he was kind of, his career was on the downward trajectory by 84. Well, Jim, another name here from your future. At 25 years old, Tom Pritchard.

Wow. Tom had been in Memphis in 83, but in 84, I think he went to Pensacola, did he not? And we, 85, he would end up in mid-sac. so I'm not sure if it was 84, maybe. I think he was in Alabama, then he was mid-south. Not on this list at this time, because it's too crowded, he wasn't getting used yet, but he was already a heck of a worker. Here's an interesting one that I'm always surprised at.

I noted it the other day when we went through some of the ages that he's older than I would have thought. 29 years old, young baby-faced Terry Taylor. Terry Taylor in 1980. was fucking tremendous. And he was working in Louisiana, but Terry had been a good baby face since like 81 or 82 in Memphis. And Memphis was just so crowded

with baby faces that could talk. Jerry Lawler and Jimmy Valiant, Bill Dundee, and Austin Idol whenever he was a baby face, and etc. and Jared like Terry Taylor as the old school type, good-looking baby face. He still used him as Southern champion, but he never really worked on top in Memphis. But they did the same thing in Mid-South. Remember, Terry was the North American heavyweight champion and had that Superdome match

with Flair for the NWA title, Great fucking match. Terry was always in shape. He was an excellent worker, and he was a good. good-looking baby face in peril. His promos were not anything to fucking do dissertations on, but he was intelligent and well-spoken.

He was perfect for an old old-style traveling baby face type of, you know, U.S. champion or something like that or a territory top baby face where the other top baby face was a Hacksaw-Duggin' kick-ass kind of guy. So he had some balance.

He had something for the guys and something for the girls. Terry Taylor, tremendous fucking picture seller, by the way. Good Lord. But he was, again, great in the ring, graded everything except promos and that was okay, carried himself well as a baby face. And then had that run as the Red Rooster and never meant another goddamn thing in a wrestling business.

And boy howdy, I don't know what to take. But again, 84 were five years before he's the Red Rooster. It's a few years before he would ever turn heel. A year before he would be mid-South North American champion, like you noted, if you look at him in 84, at the end of 84, would you have said this guy in the next five years is going to get a big push and be a big star for Crockett or somewhere else? Well, actually, that's the thing.

I can, and Terry would go to work for Crockett for a while there, but I could see in 1984, I could see Terry Taylor being a top baby face in the Charlotte territory in the mix of NWA guys. He worked that style. But in 1984, in Louisiana, he was still kind of under, He was definitely underneath dog when dog was still there. He was underneath Jim Duggan, and he was underneath Magnum. So he don't make the top 20 list, I don't think.

All right. Jim, I know you were still at that point keeping up with everything happening all over the world that you can get on tape. So here's an interesting name for you, 26 years old, the cobra, George Takano. Well, and to be honest, I'm not going to take up a top 20 spot for him. on this list because primarily we're dealing with Americans, although there's going to be some names on here. But God damn, it was a Tiger Mask opponent. And excellent.

Yeah, he was kind of what they used to fill in the blank after Tiger Mask, after a big scandal in 83 leading to 84. Well, he worked with him first, didn't he? Am I blanking on or am I having brain tumors that I've seen the Cobra against Tiger Mask? Or did he come completely after? Now you're making me question it.

I thought he came after, but... He might have, but point is, excellent talent, good worker, and they used him, Anoki used him, but I don't think he didn't, he didn't stand up to this class as far as worldwide superstars. You brought this name up earlier,

27 years old, Matt Bourne. Where was he working in 1984? Because he'd burned only in 83. I believe he would go back to Portland I think he was back in Portland and then early 85 he would end up in the WWF Brief yeah The list is too crowded

Here's another interesting name that would have Later fame and he was just starting out 26 years old Scott Hall from the American Starship And was he coyote or eagle I think he was coyote I think Spivey was eagle

No I think Spivey was Well nevertheless They were actually as a team, they were kind of just the shits. But you can't, I mean, Scott Hall would go on to be one of the biggest stars in history of the business. But from 1984, you can't put him on a top 20 list in this company. He was not really doing that much in 1984. Here's an interesting name. He had lit up the world as Tiger Mask.

In 84, he had been Tiger King, Sotorosayama. He was 27 years old. Can you believe he'd already done the Tiger Mask gimmick, changed the fucking business over there, accomplished in the ring what he did, and dropped the gimmick and was on the downhill slide by the time he was 27? I mean, this guy's one of the greatest in-ring talents

in the history of the business, but if we're grading on 1984, is it the same thing as Tommy Rich? He was almost done. he was on the downhill slide. Yeah, I don't know if I would put him on the list for 1984. I agree with you. That's just, there has to be some kind of draw a line there and just, what to fuck.

Because, and he chose in large part to get out of the business or get out of the mainstream business, do his own thing, pick his spots. So it wasn't like that his performance collapsed, but it was just a, odd story where he was so great for such a short period of time. Well, Jim, a few more names from the Land of the Rising Sun. At 26 years old, Yoshiaki Yatsu. Boy, you would remember better than I, how did they use him over there? I mean, I know he was a top guy and a name for a while, but was he revolutionary at that point.

He was really good. He was a part of the whole Choshchokic. shoot group, but I don't know if I would put him on this list. And here's another interesting one who, again, a few years later, it's a no-brainer, a year later maybe even, but here at 25 years old, Akira Maida, now remember in 84, he did a tour with the WWF as the, you know, Shimah sent him over, and he was like doing jobs for René Goulet, and that's why he hated American wrestling. They had him job to everyone in every small town. yeah and say that's amazing and he's a whole other head there's another line with a what the fuck

because a guy that was that influential and still his success in this industry was short-lived but massive but it wasn't yet in 1984 so he ain't on the he's a what-the-fuck you can maybe say that about the next person although he did get a good question at 27 years old at sushi onita Oneida at that point in time was the most recognizable name of the three we just mentioned in the United States because at least he had worked Memphis and Texas and Florida. In 1984, again, he was going to try to become Baba's junior heavyweight star at that point, but wasn't it by 85 when he'd blown his knees and quit for a few years? Yeah, I think it was somewhere around that period of time.

He was gone for a little while, yeah. but he's another what to fuck because then he comes back and everything goes insane for a couple years until it melts down here's an interesting name Jim he would turn 27 in August gino hernandez biggest push of his life at 84 wasn't it in Dallas certainly yeah I mean he's got to at least be a question mark

it's just getting so crowded let me put gino here as a question mark. But yeah, I mean, he had been a teenage phenom. He was the U.S. champion in Detroit. Didn't the Sheik put the belt on him? Or at least he was working with the Sheik for it when he was 1819, been a star in Houston.

And, you know, the run with he and Chris Adams against the Von Erick's in Dallas, which was going on at that point, or about to go on. About to start. But, you know, he returned at Texas Stadium. that was his return to wrestling after his sabbatical and that's what, May of 84 so from then on he had a pretty good size push and you know one of the

he did the American I guess he was the America's champion I believe or would have been American American American Chianman American was Los Angeles American was Dallas but he held something there so he got a good push Jim another interesting name he would turn 29 in November and in 1984 he would be

both King Kong Bundy and Boom Boom Bundy. Bundy! Bundy, you big fat piece of shit. We bring in here, we bring guys in to get you over and what do you do? You dumb yourself right out of position. But that's, Bundy had worked mid-south and what, 83? and had already main evented in Texas. What was the name he used when they brought him into Georgia in 82?

Crippler Chris Cannon. And he had hair. But he was 85 would be the run with he and Hogan. In 84, he was just starting up there. Was he not? I don't know. He didn't even get up there until early 85. He didn't.

AWA worked Memphis. was a part of that whole thing with him and Rick Root against Lawler and Randy Savage. That's right. I forgot because we were gone. He came in afterwards. Boy, if it was 85, he'd have to get a checkmark. Does he get a question mark here? Because he's up and coming, but he hadn't, it'd only been a couple of years. He just doesn't have the track record to some of these other guys. I don't know. He's an interesting name. Again, it's one of those ones until you see it there. You don't think of him as being in his 20s in 1984, but he would fit. I don't know.

I don't know, we could return to that one. Let me make a note here. Bundy. Bundy. Jim at 28 years old, he would win the world championship in 1984. Rick Martel. Oh, damn it. Here's another guy in his 20s that's winning a major world championship this year.

How can he not get a check? He had worked everywhere from Canada to the Pacific Northwest to fucking the AWA and WWWF, him and Tony Garria were tag champions. WWF, he and Garia had already been tag champions. Before the 1984 expansion, he's got to get a, same thing as Carrie Von Erick, right? And we just talked about Martel was one of the better

in ring workers in the business. So he won the AWA title, Kerry won the NWA title. He's got to get a check. I think the only thing that kind of stains is 1984 and maybe even as 1985 is his haircut. I think that's the worst thing about Rick Martel of those years. But Jim, back to this list here, a Rick Martel tag team partner in the future, 26 years old, Tom Zink. Boy, howdy. Yeah, Tom, sorry, it's a little crowded in the club tonight.

Maybe come back tomorrow. He just, he may have been doing a few things at that point, but not. much and he wasn't ever really going to be putting a mover and shaker position. This next one was a surprise for me. I didn't know he was still in his 20s. At 29 years old, he would turn 29 in June. Dr. D. David Schultz. I first saw David Schultz wrestle when he was 20 years old.

And he's, he didn't look as. fearsome and intimidating as he does to the, you know, his modern look to most people, but he still looked like some kind of fucking guy you probably don't want to piss off. I mean, Schultz had already been used in the Tennessee territories since 76. He and Dennis Condry were a team. He and Bill Ash were a team. He and Dutch Mantel were a team. He'd been tag team champions both for, Goulis' office for Jarrett's office over in southeastern championship wrestling in Knoxville.

I believe at that point he had also worked didn't he ever run in Florida at one point, early 80s? I'm not sure. I don't know. I know that he along with Condry and Phil Higgerson went to Nova Scotia for that fucking Al Zink in 77 because Schultz has one to save their life when they started a riot Phil and Dennis and the cops turned on them.

And here came Schultz out of the locker room with a goddamn hockey stick because with a hockey arena. Spinning it like a helicopter blade, made a path for them, came to the ring, got them, and took them back. They grabbed their bags, got in the car, went straight to the airport.

They were in the territory for two fucking weeks and came back to Tennessee. Anyway, Phil and Dennis were working with Ricky and Robert Gibson. that was Robert Gibson's first booking trip out of the country to go to Canada and their fucking opponents left after two weeks because they started too many riots. Schultz in 84 was still in the, well, he had just switched with Hogan. He was in WWF the entire year of 1984.

That was his year. And then March 85 was WrestleMania. And that was also when he slapped the shit out of Stossel. So Schultz at least gets a question mark here. And he'd worked Calgary for quite some time. And apparently was one of the people that Dynamite Kid didn't fuck with. So he's at least got to be a question mark at this point because he's now working for the WWF against all of top names, including Hogan, who brought him there specifically. And he was aligned to Roddy Piper, big push right out of the gate.

Jim, 29 years old, former member of the New York Dolls, Rick McGraw. Good Lord. It's just too crowded, isn't it? Poor Rick. And he wouldn't, he'd die in, what, two years? 85. Shit, one year. Yeah.

So, yeah. Unfortunately. Well, look at the next name. The next name, also 29 years old or returned 29 in 1984. Jay Youngblood. and when did he die what year? I think 85 also right? Yeah

there's a guy he in steamboat and slaughter and kernodal in Greensboro drew the all-time biggest crowd ever to try to see a wrestling match in a city of Greensboro at that point they shut the fucking interstate they turned thousands of people away from the Coliseum in 1983

this is 1984 he's starting to become somewhat unreliable, I guess that was the problem with him. Steenbo was completely different personality in terms of that, and Youngblood had died in 85, so you can't unfortunately put him on this list. He showed up in Mid-South for, I don't even know if it was a month, but he was there in 84, briefly. You know what? You're exactly right. And I don't even know if it was a month. I don't know what, I don't remember what happened.

Or if we ever knew, he might have just left. Well, Jim, also on this list, 24 years old, Brett Wayne Sawyer. Well, he wasn't an asshole like his brother. He was actually a nice guy. The problem was he didn't get anything from his brother except the name. Because whereas Buzz Sawyer was a goddamn genetic freak that Brock Lester, would envy in terms of the athletic shit that he could do and the fucking indestructibility of him and the fact that he could master every goddamn wrestling move like a lightweight.

Poor Brett was just a pudgy younger brother. And he couldn't really talk and he didn't have a physique and his work was okay, but so was a lot of people's. But he was a lot nicer than buds. Jim, at 24 years old, your good friend, Bobby Fulton. Boy, howdy. 1984, the Fantastics. That was their.

Bobby and Terry Taylor had been the Fantastic Ones in Georgia in the summer of 83 briefly. But then when Dundee brought Bobby and Tommy Rogers in to be the Fantastics in Louisiana, 1984, That was their first main event run. We worked with them for the Mid-South belts, and they went to Dallas world-class and became, who'd you say? Chris Adams was the most popular baby face except for the Von Erick's in 84.

The Fantastics were in 85. And from looking at them, I think being in the buildings, in some cases, in some places, they were more popular than the Von Erics to the fans there just because they were the regular fans and it was something different. The Von Erics were still a bigger draws.

I'm not saying that. But those people loved the Fantastics because somebody else got pushed besides the kids. And we should mention also while we're talking about Bobby Fulton, Tommy Rogers, is 23 years old. Yes, and that's a thing.

They're 23. Bobby would turn 24 in 84. Tommy would turn 23. And they're just getting started. So I think their question marks because they weren't as revolutionary as the rocket rolls as they came right after. But within a couple of years, not only would they be

going to Japan four or five times a year, but they'd be working in the, in Crockett's territory against us. us as well as mid-south against the sheep herders, that big program. So for... All in their 20s? Yeah, all in their 20s. Their entire 20s was the team. Well, Jim, also on this list, someone I know you saw a lot of, at least on tape,

28 years old. Yes. Kuniaki Kobayashi. I never went in person, but fucking Kobayashi again. The matches with Tiger Mask and the junior heavyweight division over there, Inoki, that was Inoki's calling card for about a three or four year period there. Tremendous worker, I can't judge him with these other guys because he wasn't featured in main events. The junior heavyweight division for Inoki was popular,

but he wasn't like featured in main events in various markets that we have records on. and what's the promo situation? We don't know. It's apples and oranges. But he was a tremendous talent that shows that a lot of the major names in Japan were still young. Well, Jim, looking at Mexico briefly,

not that I expect you to be too familiar with some of these names, but El Hio del Santo, 21 years old. Well, I think I've heard of him. Negro Casas. Oh, go ahead. Well, I was going to say, Hiho del Santo, he was 21.

years old then. He's just now having his goddamn retirement match in Mexico City, the last one apparently. But as a major worldwide name and because of his family relationship, yes, he deserves

a check on the list, but he's still a different animal than some of the others were comparing. Negro Casas, one of the best in-ring workers anywhere. He Negro Casas could do lucha

but also could actually work with people where you didn't go, what the fuck is going on here? They're just fucking tumbling. He was a multi-style superstar. A couple more names that were in their 20s. Atlantis was 22 years old. And MS1 was 28 years old.

I actually only read. remember one of his kids, MS-13. That's not one of his kids. Not sure, but Atlanta's also would be one of the top names in the last 40 years of Lucha, and he was 22 years old, rather. So, yeah, Mexico was in pretty good shape with young guys. Jim, I'll give you both of these names together, although they're quite separate. You would see one a few years earlier in Memphis.

at 24 years old Jacques Rougeau and at 29 years old Raymond Rougeau Ray Rougeau was a tremendous worker in the ring he came first because he was the older brother and drew more money

in Montreal when that was still you know back in the territory days and was Ray Rougeau was known more than Jacques was because he had had more publicity Jacques came along when he came into Memphis in 1982, so he was 21 years old because this was spring of 82.

And they brought him in as a baby face. And I mean, you know, he was good at that point, but he's still only in his early 20s. But I'll never forget, I heard the story in the locker room. After Memphis TV, I guess they're going to go to Nashville. And Jacques knew into territory, somehow he ends up in the car with Lawler and whoever they were riding with. And Lawler's a Booker at the time, right?

And somewhere or another, they're talking, and I can't remember what brought it up, but Jacques, whether he made a pitch to do something with him or let him do this or that, while he's in the car with Lawler, the Booker, and Lawler, like, okay, and Jacques said to him, because this was the quote that went around,

what's the matter big boy you afraid they're going to get over you and it spread like wildfire that this fucking goofy french canadian 20 year old fucking kid and just told like wasn't he afraid i'm going to get over you in memphis so he was so annoying luller switched him fucking heel he said that personality and that accent and everything it just it's a natural heel he just annoyed everybody. So he switched him heel. And then that's when guys

were starting to use music and Lawler had music and the fabulous ones. Well, they weren't around yet, but a few people had music. Not everybody. Jacques Roussel wanted music. Now, you're not a top guy. You don't get to music. He brought his own boombox.

He brought his own boombox. He would carry it to the ring in the arena with it turned up as loud as he could. Dirty laundry. And it was, and it got so much heat that they kept it as part of a rock and roll Jacques Rougeau.

And they kept it as part of his gimmick. They didn't play the music in the arena. He carried the fucking giant boom box. Did he get along with Tony Dealer when they teamed up? I don't know, but it seems like that something about either one of those two

would have probably irked the other one. Well, Jim, only a few more names here on the list. 24 years old. Brian Adias. Thank you, Brian, for coming. You get a consolation prize. Also 24 years old, Kelly Knesski. I really liked Kelly.

He was a nice guy. He was with us in Dallas. And he was one of those guys that just probably came along too late, because he looked a lot like his dad. His dad had the buzz crew cut and no knee pad, boots and tights type of wrestler. And Kelly just didn't have any particular look to him

or gimmick or anything like that, but also he had just started. He didn't get a chance to develop too much and then the territories were gone. And I think he got into some line of business. business. And his brother, Nick, worked a couple of years shortly after that. At least Nick had some hair. Jim, at 27 years old, Johnny Mantell, all right? Well, I mean, thanks for coming, Johnny. Yeah. I will give you both of these names together,

although, again, very different careers. At 26 years old, Len Denton, and a 24-year-old, years old Tony Anthony, the grapplers and the dirty white boys. Well, and Lynn didn't, of course, still to this day, is synonymous with the name the grappler. Lynn started working as the grappler. I think he might as, did he start in Southwest down in San Antonio? I know he had a run there. Oh, mid-south.

Maybe they both did. I think it was mid-south. It was mid-south as the grappler. And then Lynn kept the grappler. before, you know, and it was a Booker and top guy in Portland for Don Owen and still lives out there to this day. Where Tony Anthony came in is Tony's from Knoxville and he had kind of broken in. And I can't remember again, was it Southwest or was it Memphis first and then they went down there. But they did the Grapplers tag team.

I know they were together in Memphis in 83. before I left there. And then I think, didn't they unmask them and they became the dirty white boys briefly? Then Lynn went back to being the grappler and Tony stuck with the dirty white boy. Basic gist of the thing. You know, I don't know in this company

for this list in 1984, you could put either guy on it, although they both prospered later on. Jim, 25 years old, faxin Tim Horner. Faxon Tim Horner. It is fake white lightning bolt. Yeah, I mean, it was Tim, and it was 1984, and look at the names that we've just gone through.

And one final name, Jim, and apologies to anyone who's going to cry and complain about no all Japan women names on here, I apologize at limited time, but 27 years old lay Lonnie Kai. I'm glad you put her on here because Lonnie was, I think everybody has kind of, well, I say everybody, there's kids that never saw her,

but I think anybody who's got a grip on the 80s female wrestling scene, everybody pretty much thought Lonnie was the best worker of the bunch of up. and also she loved the business. She was very dedicated. You can't use the same criteria that we were using for any of the guys, for any girls in the 80s, because except for Wendy,

because of the unique situation with Cindy Lopper and Vince and the whole thing, none of the girls were put in money-drawn positions. But Lelani, along with Judy Martin, were kind of considered the two girls, at that point in time that were the best workers of the bunch in the United States. Well, with that, Jim,

that is a list of many of the wrestling stars, the regular employed wrestlers of 1984. Incredible talent in their 20s, already headlining big buildings, making major television shows, had programs that people are still doing documentaries about. and that's just the guys in their 20s because I hate to be a spoiler,

but the list of the guys in their 30s is longer. Well, again, we're at an interesting time now. A lot of the top stars appear to be in their early to mid-40s. A lot of guys are still active in their 50s. The 30s, there may not be as many stars as there used to be. In the 20s, when we did that list, there were a few obvious ones, Braun Breaker, Ria Ripley, MJF.

And then there were a lot of names. where, like we said at the top of this, they wouldn't have even got anywhere near the list in 1984. We have all these question marks, and they're all incredible candidates, and we have a list of no-brainers. And when we get into the 30s, not to play spoiler or anything, but we're going to have to deal with the likes of the Rick Flares, Dusty Rhodeses, Andre the Giants,

type of fucking names that are still in their 30s. well yeah we will return shortly after this short commercial timeout you know brian as i look back i i see all those names they were bright-eyed they were bushy tail they're in their 20s they're they're they're just they're a bunch of youths just a bunch of youths just beginning their lives but a lot of them unfortunately didn't have a good backup plan didn't have something to fall back on when they got out of the wrestling business, and as a result of that, met with some misery.

Can you imagine if they'd all started thinking, what am I going to do after wrestling? I know I'm going to have Shopify, build me a business, a website, and a marketing team, and a commerce expert that can help me sell everything from cookies to fucking auto parts on the internet that hadn't been invented yet.

Maybe that's the problem. Well, now we've got the capability and ability, Brian, now that we've got an internet to go with Shopify and make money, whereas you didn't have before. So you should always take advantage of these modern space age technologies while they exist. And if the people out there go to Shopify.com slash JCE, they will see in front of them the promised land. Shopify can build your website, run your website, market your product, get your brand name out,

take all the money, and give you some of it. If you're ready to sell, well, and you need money and you're ready for Shopify, and how desperate are you, ladies and Jenny, you want to start right now? Well, they can start you right now with a $1 a month trial period. That's what they'll do so that they will show. you all the services they can provide for you and they'll get you hooked and then you got Shopify on your back you're not going to be able to do anything without them Brian Shopify is one of the safest addictions you can have because that means that you're addicted to money the mean

green stuff the the the the ching I should say of commercial commerce of cash going into a box. Ching-a-ling-ling! Shopify.com slash J-C-E. Sign up for a $1-a-month trial period. Whether you're in your 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, or even the 60s, you can still make some money, unlike all of us back in the dark ages of the 80s when they didn't have an internet.

Shopify.com slash J-C-E. That's right, Jim. They power our online store, and they can power our online store. we're yours, we trust them you can to Shopify.com slash JCE. You just like to say power hour.

All right, Jim, you know what that means. It's time to get serious. We're back here with the show. Yes, that'll make you stand up and take some notice. That's attention getting serious music. I'm moving some papers around here. Jim, before we move on,

so we went through and I apologize for the buzzing behind me, the neighbors doing their fall leaf pickup. Yeah. We got your list. Let's go over real quick, the ones that you said would absolutely be on your list

at a top 20 in their 20s in 1984. Well, here, count along with me, because I'm going to go down through the list of check marks and you just count how many that is.

Okay. Barry Windham, Breed Hart, Dynamite Kid, Terry Gordy, Wendy Richter, Brad Armstrong That was a check and a question mark

But nevertheless Bobby Eaton Buddy Landell Chris Adams Dr. Death was a check and a question mark just because of the timing he was still very early in his career Kerry von Erick

Kevin Von Erick Michael Hayes Magnum T.A. Robert Gibson Hawk and Animal of the Road Warriors, Ricky Morton, and Rick Martell.

Those are all the absolute check marks we gave. How many was that? I'm counting them now. Two that were on the question mark list, Brad Armstrong and Dr. Death, and in terms of people you had... Well, we did a check and a question mark and other people we gave question mark. So what does that mean? You just read them off. Did they get included on this list in your eyes or they're not on the list yet?

I asked how many we got it? Have they still question marks? Are they still question mark before I even tell you that? No, they were, we gave them a check and then I said, well, wait a minute, we got a lot of checks on some of these. Maybe we ought to have a question mark. How many checks we got there? 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16. 17, although, again, we're counting the rocket roll and the road warriors as four people as opposed to two teams.

Well, just to open the field up a little bit more and to correct that loophole. why don't you combine them so we've only taken up two spots because we've still got more question marks because that's how there was so much talent as you will recall from when we just talked about it that you know we were like geez we don't know if we're going to be able to narrow it down so now we have a few question marks all right so you would you want to go back over the question marks let's go over the question marks we have 15 definites not counting dr death and brad armstrong who will read off with this question mark list. Five open spots on your list.

Buzz Sawyer, Davey Boy Smith, Mike Rotunda, Arn Anderson, uh, hold on here, Hercules Hernandez, Jake Roberts,

one-man gang, Gino Hernandez, David Schulte, Bobby Fulton, Tommy Rogers, and King Kong Bundy. What a crew in their 20s in the mainstream wrestling business.

And in terms of early 20s, Davy Boy Smith, 22, Brad Armstrong 22, Dr. Death, 24, one-man gang, 24, The Fantastics, 22, and 24. So how many question marks did we have there? I'm going to count the Fantastics as one for this exercise.

One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fourteen, again, with Dr. Death and Brad Armstrong. So in that case, why don't we just make it the top 34 in their

twenties? That takes a little bit of the fun out of it. I mean, really, how can I guess for the five definite picks that would take us to 20 you might have to actually I think we mentioned Buzz Sawyer's career was on the way down he had gotten as hot as he was going to get he was 25 that still blows my mind that he was only 25 years old at that

point and I mean he would be he'd be good in the ring in mid-south the year after that but he wouldn't draw him money and world class that I mean they'd didn't make a lot of money, I don't think, but him and Matt Boren managed by Percy Pringle. I think you got to put Arne Anderson on the list. I think you have to put Davey Boy on the list because 84 was the year of the start of the National Bulldogs. Hennig, Kurt Hennig. Did I even say him a minute ago?

I don't remember saying his name. Well, he's on the list on the question mark list. I thought you said it's Yes, he's on the question mark list. How are we narrowing this down? Nikita Kolaoff for fuck's sake. He's not on the question mark list. We did I miss him?

Because he's a question mark also. Well, no, we said that if it was 85, he would certainly be on the list. But it's at 84. Yes, I know. But these names, they had names then, Brian. I don't know. Why don't we just pick it out of a fucking one of those tumblers like they use for the raffles.

Boy, you're really making this difficult. You really don't want to just narrow this down or pick any way. I don't know how to, I don't know what, you know. Okay, look, with Davey Boy, Arne and Kurt Henning, we now have 18. There are two open spots. Two. Schultz, the 84 was the best year Schultz was going to have for the rest of his career. So David Schultz, interesting.

And he'd already been a main event guy for however long. I mean, Bundy wouldn't hit Ben. until the next year for all the reasons that we talked about when we went over this. But, oh, boy, are they so with Arne, with Hercules? There's room for Herk now. Because he was about as good as he was going to get that year. He might be bigger nationally, but he'd never be better in the ring. Well, there it is.

There's 20. Well, there you go. Those are your top 20. in their 20s for 1984, not counting managers, of course. Well, of course not. Hey, there's something. No, I'm just, I was sitting up in my chair

and it takes me a while because I'm old. What, that's what was different about me. Think about this. What were the ages of every other major mainstream manager in the business? in 1984. Jimmy Hart looked like one of the younger ones and he was like 40, right? Jimmy Hart, I'm trying to do the math.

Jimmy Hart is 19 years older than me. So he is currently somewhere in a neighborhood of 82 years old, 83. I'm 64. Jesus Christ. Wow. So he was around 40 when you started? So 41, you. years ago, he would have been 41, let's say, just for the sake of argument.

Akbar. Yeah. Akbar was Akbar 50? That was the manager that the Mid-South fans were used to. Gary Hart was definitely in his 40s. Gary always looked a little older because of his sinister, you know, aura. J.J. was

Actually younger than he looked But that's a good question How old was JJ in 1984? Hold on J.J. Dylan 19, he was born in 1942, so he would have been 42. Okay.

Need I talk about the, you know, the managers in the WWF, Blassie was still there. Freddie was born in the 19 teens. wizard had just passed away. Albano was born in the 30s, I believe. Lou Albano was born, this is not Lou Elbano. Some other guy came.

Who the hell is this guy? Albano Carisi, an Italian singer. Hold on. Who'd he ever beat? What the hell? Lou Albano was born 1933, Rome, Italy. Okay. So help me some more managers.

1984 managers. Paul Jones. Paul Jones was, he dated Janice Joplin and fucking I school. All right. 1984. Jeff Walton. A tux Newman. Okay.

He was working in the, I don't know his age off the top of my head, but he was working in Los Angeles office in the 60s. He had to be able to drive. I have another young manager, although people wouldn't really know who he was for a other two years or so, Slick in Kansas City. How old was he? He had to be in his early 20s, right?

No, come on now. Hold on now. Hold on, let me see. Google that, cowboy. Slick, I better specify, Slick, WWE. You might get some kind of lube commercial. He was born in 1957. Okay, so he was, he was.

was 27. He was four years older than me. Teddy Long was still a referee. He wouldn't start managing until 89, but how old was he? Well, remember this? Teddy had, this was Teddy's second career. Teddy used to work for James Brown. Remember, Teddy is, I don't want to, well, it's common knowledge, but I think he's, it is late 70s now, isn't he? Google Teddy, because Teddy just is timeless. Well, I'm doing that 40 years old in 84, Bobby Heenan. There you go. How did we not mention Bobby first in 1984 for fuck's sake, but

Teddy Long was born in 1947. Boom. So he was 37 in 1984. And he had even started managing. yet. And somebody's going to say, Heyman and Heyman didn't start till the following year or was it 85 or 86. Depends on what you consider his start.

Either way, 85 or 86, yeah. But nevertheless, I mean, I was half the age of every other manager in the fucking business. So that's why it stood out to the people because they were used to the ex wrestler, crusty old managers, and here comes this fucking prick. It was perfect. Well, there it is. The top 20 in their 20s for 1984.

We shall return soon with more age talk here on this podcast. Yes, we're going to do the top people that were 84 in the 1920s. Stay tuned for that. Once again, I apologize for the buzzing on this special episode behind us. me. It's fucking November. Jesus. All right, Jim, let's play some guest to program. Guest the program. Oh, I love you. I love doing this. We've been doing this lately, and I'm getting so much practice. I'm getting

better. It's a popular game here on the show where we go through programs in my collection, usually ones I have to file away. And Jim, based on information given to him, usually the card, will guess as much information as he can. The date, the locale, the temperature, the time, the referees. All right now. Let me start you with one. I'm not doing the weather. I've got some very interesting ones here today.

Let's start with... Not that one. Let's start with this one. I'm just doing the hum. Well, thank you. That's very helpful. All right, Jim, the first one. I'm going to read you the names written in for the competitors who are not there without naming.

Well, I'm not going to name one. What are you saying you're going to read me the names without naming anybody? No, well, there are... Is what you're saying to me? There are notes in the program where the people who were not on the card who weren't there were crossed out and other names are written in for who actually wrestled. All right, so we'll... Okay, okay, I got so what are you giving me now?

Well, let's go through the card here. Okay. Matt Gibson versus Frank Valois. Good Lord. The Great Mephisto versus Butcher Branigan. A special one-fall 30-minute time limit handicap match. Andre the Giant versus Ramon Lopez and Leo Sites. The semifinal, two out of three falls,

45-minute time limit, written in Dale Lewis versus Pete Sanchez. And the main event, two out of three falls, 60-minute time limit. Ivan Putsky versus Blackjack Mulligan. Okay. This is not what you would expect. I am going to say, well, let me go through the car. Frank Valois, obviously, was the handler

for the early years of Andre the giant, and so him being on the card is, it makes sense because Andre's on it later. The great Mephisto against Butcher Branigan, and then Andre following

in a handicap match, well, Butcher Brannigan had a run in the WWWF, but Mephisto didn't. and with Andre being in a handicap match against two less than stellar opponents, that indicates to me this is early Andre touring. Valois with him, he's just in a handicapped match. They didn't need to book him against any name because people just wanted to see him the first time.

Professor Dale Lewis and Pete Sanchez, again, Pete Sanchez, Sanchez, if I'm not mistaken, was a noted under- undercard guy in the Northeast, which is why I think you're trying to fuck with me here, but Dale Lewis wasn't. And Ivan Putzky and Blackjack Mulligan were both on top in the state of Texas in the mid-70s. And so therefore, I would say that this is the Dallas Sportatorium and the only only thing I'm waffling about is whether it's 1974 or 1975

and I'm going to say fuck I can't remember when the black checks first went to the WWWF this is it's night it's 1974 the date Monday

December 3rd 1973 ah the Northside Coliseum Fort Worth, Texas. Fort Worth, Texas, not Dallas but Fort Worth, but I missed it by what, 21 days of being

1974? And a few miles, that's right. Notice the pizza and Frito Pie concessions have been opened. Go down the ramp on the west side, also beer and soft drinks. Brian, do you know, you're a Yankee

northern son of a bitch? Do you know what a Frito pie is? I've never heard of a Frito pie before, no. They take the individual snack bag of fritos, the plastic, well, it used to be a nice, you know, even a small bag of fritos

used to be nice size. I'm not talking about something now like size of baseball. But the plastic sack of the fritos, and they fucking pull it open and they dump a goddamn big old spoon full of chili in there and maybe sprinkle some cheese on it and stick a spoon in it and sell it to you.

That's a Frito pie, baby. Some interesting advertising here. Santa Land Christmas, 1973. Thrill your child with a personal letter from Santa. Truly a beautiful, ever-so-welcome thought. Send $1, money order, or check with each child's name and address. Mail early, satisfaction guaranteed. Offer good until December 15, 1973.

Santa has a letter. that all parents will respect. Send $1 checker money order to Santa Land. There's a PO box in Irving, Texas. Did you ever get a letter from Santa when you were a kid? From Irving, Texas? No. I know.

No, I shouldn't. I've got it here over in my dad's old desk in the corner of the office over there where I have some of my childhood papers. Actually, you got a letter. I think it's 1964. I can't remember, but you got a letter with the North Pole cancellation. What's the word I'm searching for? Boom, they stamped the stamp.

They canceled the stamp. It says North Pole, Alaska, and it's on stationary with snowflakes and reindeer and Santa tells you you've been a nice little child. One more thing to ask you about in this program, because I don't know anything about it. I told you that there were a couple names written in. Dale Lewis was written in for Jose Lethario, which, thank God, that would have been a giveaway in a sense, even though you got it, or came close. Matt Gibson was written in for Ricky Gibson. And there's a photo of Ricky Gibson here, and it says Matt Gibson wants match with Lewis. Matt Gibson stormed into the Northside Coliseum last week and won over the fans with its exciting wrestling and his victory over Blackie Gordman.

Matt, the older brother of another sensation to hit Fort Worth, Ricky, came to Texas to avenge an injury to his younger brother. Ricky was scheduled to wrestle last week, but Matt replaced him since Ricky's knee injury was worse than expected. Let me stop there, crazy to read about his knee injury in 73. Well, that's, you know, Ricky Gibson already at that point was just doing such, athletic shit that, you know, he was bound to get hurt sooner or later. Do you know who Matt Gibson would have been? I remember a Matt Gibson working shows in the mid-70s in the southern United States, but I don't, I didn't know that he was ever billed as a brother of Ricky Gibson.

It could be that they had brought Ricky in from Alabama to push him as a young baby face. He hurt his knee and went home and they said, oh, we've already got this. Gibson thing, so they made him a brother. That may be how he got started, but I don't know that Matt ever went anywhere. And it wasn't until, come to think of it, it was like April-ish, April or May of 74 that Ricky Gibson came into the Memphis Territory and immediately got over and did the program with Lawler for the Southern Junior heavyweight title as it was called. called then that involved Fargo and led to the Fargo Loller matches of 74.

So Ricky Gibson, five, six months after that program that you just read, would be on top with Lawler in the Mid-South Coliseum on sellouts, drawn over 11,000 people. And he won the belt and traded it back and forth with Lawler. So those were the first live lollar matches practically that I saw was Ricky Gibson and it was just incredible. And you think this may have been one of those early examples of the guy getting the push gets hurt and all of a sudden the next week,

you know, the Tonga kid shows up or, you know, my brother got hurt. Stella May shows up. Yeah, you're not going to get away what you did to my brother who has long hair just like me. All right, Jim, let's go to our next card here. I'm going to not tell you the opening match. I'm going to leave it off. That'll be the one match not told to you. Han Schmidt

Who? Versus Tony Nero The Big O and then in parentheses because he's been unmasked Mike Davis versus Buddy Fuller Wait, what now

the Big O Mike Davis versus Buddy Fuller because he was the Big O but he was unmasked and now he is Mike Davis Okay Tag team match The Great Melenko and Hans Mordier

versus Joe Scarpa and King Louis Telet. And finally, Texas Tornado match, six-man tag team match, all six men in the ring at the same time, Cyclone Negro, the Gladiator, and Jack Briscoe, versus the medics and the good doctor. okay um boy howdy hans smit stands out on that card like a spare prick at the wedding as adrian street would say

uh against tony nero it sounded like we were in the marigold arena in chicago or something at some you know some point in the 50s uh but then the reason why i clarified the big o he had been the massed Big O, because Big O, obviously, was Bob Wharton Sr.'s nickname. And because of the location that I believe we're probably in, it would be impossible that it could have been Bob Orton Senior, but Mike Davis was the real name of the future brute slash Bugsie McGraw. Buddy Fuller, obviously, a Southern legend, son of Roy Welch, father of Ron and Robert Fuller, a member of the Welch family,

which, again, because of where we are, is probably pertinent. The great Melenko, Boris Melinco, and Hans Mortier, against Jay Scarpa and Louis Talet, would they accept, Mortier is probably more known for his, run in the northeast with the weird headgear, but Malenko, Scarpa, and Talet are Florida legends in this time period. And a Texas tornado six man was Cyclone Negro who was used heavily in Florida, the gladiator who, God damn it, I ought to know who that is, and I can't call his name, and Jack Briscoe,

against the medics and the good doctor kind of rounds out that this is the state of Florida again you know I don't know whether it's Miami or Tampa I'm going to quit picking St. Petersburg that's where all the big shows happened but this was the era before they were probably running the St. Petersburg Civic Center

a simpler time could this have been in 1971 in the Miami Beach Convention Center Jim we are in the Miami Beach Auditorium Oh Wednesday May 7th 1969

Yeah This is the ring sign I would have gone earlier If I'd have studied more on it But I didn't want to waste everybody's time Jim here are the ticket prices ringside $4, reserved $3, general admission $2, and children $1. Championship Wrestling from Florida with Gordon Soli is seen each Saturday,

2.30 to 3.30 p.m., W.LBW TV, ABC, in color, Channel 10. Also, listen to this. Hey, 1969 in color. I wonder if those tapes are locked. up in the vault, up in the mountain for the WW. You know, there are still wrestling shows, or I say they are still, there were still wrestling shows in black and white, like into the 70s, right? Not even if you had a black and white set, just they were filmed in black and white. Yeah, and I'm not sure, honestly, when that it was pretty standard that everything and every local station was in color, but you can find examples of local news and a few, you know, film

clips that are still available of wrestling from the early 70s that are in black and white. But by 69 or 70, I think almost everybody would have made the change. Hey, listen to this. Listen to tonight's live broadcast on radio station WEDR 99.1 FM. Also Sunday, 3.30 to 5.30 p.m. Were they broadcasting to Miami Beach shows, like the audio of them? Possibly. Wow.

I don't know. It's a two-hour block. Well, there it is, Miami. Well, what else did they have to do on Sunday afternoon? I'll tell you, Brian, we may guess programs on the air here, but a lot of people this time of year are guessing what kind of present they ought to give to people. Have you been guessing what you should give three or four of the people of the five people in the world that you care about? Have you been wondering about that?

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ORAFrames one last time, Jim, that promo code. J.C.E. All right, Jim, here's another one. The opening contest, one fall 20 minutes. John Critoria versus Al Cashie. The special event, one fall 30 minutes. Brother Frank

versus Dennis Clary. The semi wind-up, tag team bout two out of three falls, 45-minute time limit. Gino Garibaldi and Chick Garibaldi versus Al Smith and John Smith. And finally, the main event, Jim, two out of three falls, one-hour time limit. Baron Leone versus Billy Varga. Holy crap, all righty. I'm not sure of the Crotoria fellow in the opening contest, although Bruiser Bedlam's real name was

I could never say it either. He spelled it for me. C-R-O-T-U-R-I-A, I believe, C-T-U-R-R-A, I believe, Crotoria, Crotoria or something like that. Crotorio. There was a U on the end. I don't know what that means.

But nevertheless, Al-King Kong Kashi was a veteran villain in the wrestling business. And wouldn't he the guy they picked to have Vern Ganya's first pro match with in Minneapolis? I believe he was. Brother Frank is brother Frank Jers, who was the father of Joe Jers. who wrote the book, whatever happened to Gorgeous George about his father's exploits in wrestling business, specifically

in the old Tennessee and Alabama territory in the 50s, which this is not where that's at. Dennis Clary, I'm not sure he ever gained fame and fortune. Chicken Gino Garibaldi against Al and John Smith.

The Garibaldis we've talked about, it was a fat were they all all legitimately related or one was a son one was a father but was the other one was Leo

were they legitimate now Leo was the son of Gino chick I'm not sure about chick may chick may have been a wolf in sheep's clothing Al and John Smith had beards

they were twin brothers and they had these long bushy beards like the Smith Brothers cough drops that were on the stands back in those days and that's why they took the name and they were a heel tag team through the 50s and

Baron Leonie set the gate record in Los Angeles with Luthez in the early 50s at Billy Varga was a Los Angeles mainstay and was on a lot of TV shows in the 60s because they all shot in Hollywood. And so that's where we are here.

We are in Los Angeles, I don't, or the Southern California territory, I believe. The problem is I have a hard time believing this is an Olympic auditorium card, but anything's possible. But from the people on the card, I would say the year would be 19. 57 and we're in Southern California, but not the Olympic Auditorium. How'd I do? You did pretty good in some parts and almost there in other parts.

It's Long Beach, California, the Long Beach Municipal Auditorium, so you get Southern California. Okay. Thursday, April 17th, 1952. Oh. Boy, that's... was old. So then Frank Jairs had never even been the Southern Junior heavyweight champion

for Nick Goulis and Roy Welch at that point. Yeah, that was a tough one. Some interesting things here. They got a little humor section. She was only a grave digger's daughter, but you ought to see her lower the beer. Here's another one. The visitor says

If you're not up on your funeral terminology, you wouldn't even really get that, would you? The visitor says, can you tell me the name of this school. The young man says, sorry, I'm just a football player here. When he threatened to drive her over a cliff in a taxi, she just laughed. She knew the cab was yellow.

That's stupid. I'll give a fur muff for a kiss. What? A fur necklace for a hug. A fur coat. and then another person goes, stop! That's fur enough! All right, there's a free dance every Saturday night.

Veterans use your local VFW Club. You know, the guy that wrote that, Brian, he was bred in Old Kentucky, but he's just a crumb down here. I guess so, but that's the update here. Also, does a safety notice for your own protection. Please do not sit on the back of the seats as we are not responsible in case of injury.

The seats are not fastened down. and topple over very easily. So there's that program. All right, Jim, our next one here. I've heard of having them on the edge of their seats, but the back of their seats? The opening contest, Mickey Doyle and Gene Madrid

versus Louis Martinez and Steve Bolus. The second match, Princess Partlow, versus Betty Nicoli. Nikolai. Nikolai. Excuse me. I never saw Ms. Nikolai.

I've only seen her name. The third match. I've never seen her wrestle, but I had, well, nevertheless. Her fur muff. What was it in the other thing? Let's go back to this. The fourth match, Jim,

R. Jones, versus Hans Schmidt. Jesus Christ. Hans Schmidt's a time traveler. He's everywhere. The fifth match for a title, I will not name,

the champion Harley Race versus Dewey Robertson. Ah, now it becomes more clear. The finale, an Australian tag team match, Black Jack Alanza, and Big Bill Miller versus Jack Briscoe

and Pat O'Connor and the main event for a title I will not name the champion Dory Funk Jr. Yeah. Versus Johnny Valentine, two out of three falls, one hour time limit two minute rest period between falls.

What a night in the Keele Auditorium! Or could it have been the Checker Dome, otherwise known as the arena, except for when Ralston Purina got the naming rights? Do they even make dog food, from Ralston Purina anymore, checkerboard square? I don't know. I know Purina Cat Chow

from the commercials. Well, so they've gone over to the other side, huh? They've forsaken the dogs and gone over to sympathize with the cats. I see the way this. I guess so, but I'll give it to you because you know what, it's not even a question. You got it. It's the Kiel Auditorium of St. Louis. But let's talk about

the day. Well, first of all, going up and down the card, Mickey Doyle, good friend of Tom Pritchards, and a would become a Detroit main stay. Gene Madrid is the Gene Madrid here, Gypsy Joe? Or

would that because... I don't know. Gene Madrid here. I can't track of whether... Well, I can't keep track of whether he was Jan Madrid or Gene Madrid or whatever at one point in time. But Luis Martinez Arriva!

Long time Midwest Hispanic star Princess Partlow was Sandy Partlow who along with Betty Nikolai were two of Mullah's girls at that point in time Rufus R. Jones was a Central States baby face icon before he went to the Carolinas or some places in the south where he was seen later on as I said, Han Schmidt's every goddamn wear the title that you didn't want to mention with Harley Race and Dewey

Robertson, who would later become the missing link, was the Central States title, right? That is correct. And then Lanza and Bill Miller against Jack Briscoe and Pat O'Connor, that told me where we were at, and then Funk and Valentine confirms it. And this has got to be during Dory's title reign between 1969, 1973. and I am going to, based on my available borderline mystical knowledge, say that it's 1971. Jim, the Kiel Auditorium, St. Louis, Missouri, Friday night, June 18th, 1971. Home run for Jim Cornette.

Prack, boom, shh. Ticket prices, $2, $3, $4. and $5. And a bargain at twice the price. All right, Jim, our next program here. Midget match Lord Littlebrook

versus Bull Brummel. How did you say that? Ball brummel. Well, it would either be or bull instead of bull, bull brummel, but it gets... Because it's the midget match, I fucked it up. I'm so sorry.

Bold, bowl brummel. Bull brummel. Bull Brummel. But actually, no, it would be Bo Brummel, and they fucking fucked it up, the printers, because that's what the midget's name was Bo Brummel. He was a fancy damn Bo Brummel character. Well, obviously, as we've determined, he's known as a lot of different things. People were calling him all kinds of names.

Jim, a tournament match. One more loss will disqualify Clancy, Irish Mike Clancy versus George Grant. And I'll tell you. Oh, Jesus. Irish Mike Clancy has five wins, one loss, George Grant, one win, no loss. For the World Tag Team Championship, the Fields Brothers, Don and Luke, the champions,

versus Kinji Shibuya and El Zorro. And finally, a tournament match, one more loss to disqualify either, Tori Yamato, with seven wins and one loss, versus Leapin Larry Shane, five wins, one loss. Woo! Well, this is a Welch family territory. We got that much so far.

Little Brooke, this is early in his career. He would go on, remember he managed the New Zealand militia in WCW and like 89 or 90 or whatever it was. And at that point, he had been the booker for the midgets for years at that point. He had taken over from Littlebrook was based out of the central states. And originally the midgets had been booked out of Montreal. And when they made the switch, he ended up with it. George Grant was gorgeous George Grant, who tried to make people think he was the original

to the point we've talked about it, where when he died, his obituary said he was the original gorgeous George. Irish Mike Clancy was at one point the NWA World Junior Heavyweight Champion was a top name, especially in the South during this time period. With the World Tag Team title being held by Don and Luke Fields,

the Fields are cousins of the Welch's, they had a long run during this time period in the Tennessee territory, but at the same time they were also working Alabama when it was separate. Kenji Shibuya would have been very young at this point, and I'm not sure who Zorro was. And with the main event, Larry Shane and Tor Yamato, Tor Yamato was the Japanese heel that Goulas and Welch used quite extensively.

the few years before Harold Watanavi showed up, and they made him Tojo Yamamoto because Tori Yamato had been over so big, and then Tojo Yamamoto became one of the top three baby faces of their entire 60s and 70s run. Having said all of that, it's got to be, is this a Memphis card in the earth? in like 1960 or 61, or is this Birmingham maybe during the same time period? I'm going to go with Birmingham, Alabama, in 1960. Jim, Birmingham, Alabama, it's the Southern wrestler,

the official Birmingham wrestling program, Monday, September 7th, 1959. Ah! All righty, well, I was still close. Special. Can you find your name? Several wrestling... Most of our fans can't find their way home. Several wrestling fans' names appear somewhere in this program.

If you can locate yours, bring it to ringside before tonight's matches are over, and you will receive one silver dollar. That's a pretty good deal. So basically, if you can over the next two to three hours figure out how to read your own fucking name, we will pay you a dollar. That's exactly right, so it seems. How's this for a headline? New Jap and Maskman go for tag battle. Kenji Shabuya proved last week to be almost as tough as Tori Yamato, much to the disgust of Jap-hating fans.

That's a hell of a hell of a story there in this issue of the... Well, remember now, 14 years after World War II, things were still not copacetic. And that's... You'll find that terminology, especially because, again, it wasn't just because the South is known for their questionable approach to race.

Archie Bunker. But it was the... Well, but it was the same people. running. That's why Jarrett's booking took off in Memphis because he was a new guy. Goulis and Welch were

using the same terminology in 1977 that they'd used in 1947. Nick was still putting in his newspaper ads in 1978. See the nation's top colored Matt star. Oh my God. I swear to God, I've got

posters. That's crazy. I got posters. And so, because he didn't know any better. But, you know, that was the terminology that all the promoters used. And when the guy had been running the business for 40 years, that's what you got. A couple other interesting things in here. By the way, this was the Southern Elimination Tournament Round 15. Sounds like Tony Khan was booking this point in time in 1959.

Live studio matches. thrilling live matches are held each Saturday evening at 10.30 p.m. at WAPI TV Channel 13. Free tickets available to all fans by writing Nicholas and Roy Welch, Bankhead Hotel, Birmingham, Alabama, include a self-addressed stamped envelope. Every person must have a ticket. 10.30 at night they were taping live wrestling. That's crazy. Well, Eddie Marlin told me, in 19 when I started doing TV in 1982 because we'd come in

you know it'd have been either a late night the night before a show and you didn't get back to Memphis till after midnight or here we are at 10 o'clock the morning we're at the studio or when you had to leave Nashville and go to TV you had to leave Nashville at fucking six o'clock in the morning to make TV and he said boys it ain't anywhere like it used to be

they were so hot in the early 70s where Nick had studio television shows in every one of his major markets, and they were running so many shows and had so many guys being booked to the various places, Eddie Marlin and Tommy Gilbert, when they were on top in 73 as the baby face early version of the Rocker Roll Express, right, Southern Tag Team Champions, whatever,

they would get up and they would go to Memphis television from wherever they'd been on Friday night. And then they would drive back from Memphis TV to Nashville. So that's 200 miles up the interstate where Nick would have a small plane waiting on his leg, his four top guys or whatever. And they would then take that plane and fly over the mountain to fucking Chattanooga, because Chattanooga in Nashville is only 130 miles, but it was, I don't think they had the interstate finished at that point, the fucking mountains in the way.

But they would fly them to the Chattanooga live TV that was on the air at 5 o'clock in the studio of Channel 12, I think, and that would pump that night's matches at the Chattanooga Memorial Auditorium. So they'd go over to the auditorium and do the show in Chattanooga. And if they were in the main event, they would put it on like second or third so they could get back in that fucking plane because the Huntsville TV or was it Huntsville or Birmingham

which one was this? It was at 10.30 at night. So they would hop over to Birmingham and make that live fucking TV at Birmingham and then fly back to goddamn Nashville. That's just Saturday. It's wild how much live wrestling there was in that territory. Obviously you can't see it everywhere,

but just how much that territory was producing. It was amazing. Well, during the 1973, they had a live studio show in Memphis, obviously. Huntsville, I believe, had one. We just know Birmingham did. Chattanooga. I think Nick was still doing a taping at the TV station in Nashville. And that's when they had Louisville TV for like nine months at that same period of time.

So it was like six or six. studio televisions they did every week. Jim, four cents a day is all it costs you to have an extension in your own home. For complete information called Charles Harrison has his phone number, phones in pastel colors, white and black, to fit your need. So four cents a day, not to feed a starving child, but to get an extension of your phone line in your house. By the way, last week, a silver dollar was collected by Joanne Kimbrose.

failing to locate their names were M.A. Handy or Handley, Margaret Ann O'Neill and Patsy Forrester. So they did not locate their names. They couldn't figure it out. Well, to be fair, it's a fucking four-page program. Jim, let's get another program here. This one, the opening event. Hey, what the hell, folks?

It's a holiday weekend. We're just having fun. The opening event, one fall 20 minute time limit, Bobby Coleman versus Ray Gilbert. Board. Special event, one fall 30 minute time limit. Mad Monty Ladoo versus Gordon Hessel. The semi-final event, two out of three falls, 45-minute time limit. Ray Perret or Ray Perret, I'm not exactly sure, P-I-R-E-T.

I think it's Perrette. Okay. versus the mass stranger from nowhere. But weighing 214 pounds. Strangers in the night exchanging clothing. And Jim, finally, the main event, two out of three falls, 60-minute time limit. Michelle Leone from Italy,

or Baron Michelle Loney, does say Baron here, Baron Michelle Leone versus Killer Chris Tolus. from Canada. Well, I don't know about Mr. Coleman and Mr. Gilbert in the opening match or Gordon Hessel. Monti Ladeau was a name in the West Texas territory and actually was an opponent of Dory Funk, I can't say senior because he didn't bill himself at that as Dory Funk on his first week in the Texas territory. I have a program with Dory Funk and Monty Lidou in the main event in New Mexico. Ray Perrette was a journeyman wrestler that was a star and a featured guy in various places at various points.

And the mass stranger who is from nowhere is a stranger to me. And then you got Leonie and Tolos. Are you trying to do some kind of. are you trying to do some kind of goddamn little swerve here fella because the other show was Long Beach, California with Leonie and Varga in 1952, and that could be a similar location and it's Leonie and Chris Tolos,

because I think because John Tolos had the main event run with Blassie in the early 70s in California, people think that Tolos was necessarily younger or fresher in the business. He and his brother Chris had been a top tag team all through the 1950s. And early end through the 60s. And then he was older when he got that push. This could be another one of those Southern California towns in 1953. How's that?

the date February 24th 1953 the El Paso Coliseum Oh you son of a bitch El Paso Texas You son of a bitch

It was Texas I couldn't give you two From the same territory Same time period That would have been Well I thought you were trying to swerve me I thought you were trying to It was like a trick question

The promoter It's Sam Medeker But it says Frank and then parentheses Sam Menaker. That was actually, I think, his legitimate, real legal government name, as a kid say, was Frank. But Sam Minnaker, that's where I met Sam Menickr when I was a kid. And my mom took me to Indianapolis and he walked in the back of the building and I took his picture and got his autograph. But actually in the business, when I was in the business as a professional to be able to speak to him,

that's where I met he was in El Paso in I think in 1985 because he no it wasn't even El Paso it was Fort Bliss we did a show at a military base out there in West Texas and he was living in El Paso

and came to say hello to the boys and everything but he promoted there and worked out of there on and off for years and years for whatever reason was that where he went to with Sto Hart's plane? Was it Z? Yes. Yes. Calgary to El Paso, Texas. They said, well, you can come and pick it up if you want. Fans mourn Semis death. I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. S-E-M-M-E-S. El Paso wrestling fans join with others in mourning the death of Spencer A. Semis, 61-year-old El Paso County purchasing agent,

who was found dead in his Lower Valley home last Saturday. Semis, who has handled the main ticket office for promoter Sam Menicker for over three years, was well known to wrestling fans. A cooperative worker, semis was held in high esteem by all who knew him. Well, there we go. Next week... That's sad. Didn't even know he was sick. Girl wrestlers next week, Luthez, to defend title... On March 10th, new wrestling giant signed The Mighty Goliath.

Billed as the world's greatest wrestling giant has been signed for an appearance of the Coliseum in the immediate future. Promoter Sam Menick announced today, Goliath, who attracted international attention with his role as the giant in the motion picture David N. Bethsheba stands seven feet and weighs a solid 325 pounds. although he was born in Poland he is now a naturalized citizen of the U.S. He has pledged himself to meet all comers barring none he is currently featured in official wrestling magazine and other sports periodicals

now who would this guy be I guess if he played the giant in that movie Google Google that because what name would does he give because is this that or maybe an early appearance of that Max Palmer fellow that worked as Paul Bunyan and was supposedly eight feet tall, but he wasn't really?

David Mbeth Shiba came out in 1951, so two years before this program, and Goliath, that's who we're looking at, was played by Walter Tallon. Well, I know that name. Yes. Walter, that's Ladislaw Tallon. And he got in the business with Fever.

Oh, wow. There you go. So he didn't make it as Goliath, but he made it. Oh, look at that. Well, there's that one. One last program. One last one will wrap up as an extended guest to program here today, Jim. It's the holidays.

We all got the turkey hangover. I will be leaving out one match from this card that's too much of a giveaway. First bout, one fall 20 minutes. Sandar-Covax versus Herb Gerwig Second bout bout, one fall 20 minutes Louise Torres

versus Len Hughes Cowboy Cowboy Lynn Hughes Third bout One fall 20 minutes Ramon Lopez versus Howard Martin Midgets

two out of three falls 45 minutes Little Beaver and Red Taylor versus Pee-Wee James and Billy the Kid I will leave out the semifinal one fall 30-minute time limit match

the main event two out of three falls to a finish Billy Lions and Bo Bo Brazil versus Mike and Doc Gallagher we've left off two of them let's see going from what we got Sandor Covach I left off one match two wrestlers well but you said you were going to skip another one

I said I'm skipping one match for this and then I went doing the placement of the matches on the car I see I see I see I got you uh Sandor Covac's long time name later became a promoter Herb Gerwig, better known to the world, and especially Dick Murdoch, as killer Carl Cox. That was Cox's real name, Herb Gerwig. Cowboy Lynn Hughes is a recognizable name from this particular era. I don't know that Lopez and Martin ever found success. The Midget's Little Beaver was probably the, well, he was the star on that,

in that match and he was probably, because that's when they were booked out of Quebec and Little Beaver was French-Canadian. The mystery match, who knows, but Billy Red Lions and Bobo Brazil against the Gallagher brothers makes me think

Michigan or the surrounding environs, Ontario-ish, something like that, nobody on the undercard contradicts that. The match that you didn't give me, being a dead giveaway, it would it feature the Sheik or would it feature some other territory name that would be so, you know, specific? But for a time period, God, this is hard also.

Sandor-CoVax is still in the ring. Cox is not yet Cox. I think he was Cox by 1964-ish. This is before that. 19... 161 somewhere in Ontario. Jim, the match I didn't give you was the semifinal

one fall 30-minute time limit. Ilya de Pollo versus Bronco Lubbich. We're in Buffalo. Buffalo, New York. We're in Buffalo, baby. Friday, April 1st, April Fool's Day, 1960. So what I say, 61? 61. How far is Buffalo, New York from Ontario? It's right there. There you go. So, fuck it. All right, and there's a picture of Herb Gourwig here. It looks like holding a glass of milk with a sheepish smile on his face. Never see Killer Carl Cox look like this before.

but there it is. Hey, hey, Murdoch told me one time, said fucking Cox, after he got out of the business, he worked as a jail guard somewhere, I think, down in Texas, right? In Dallas, I think.

In Dallas, well, there's this one fucking guy they had locked up, he was nuts. And Cox would go in there and fuck with him and fuck with his mind. And he'd sneak in late at night.

He'd say, you know, they're keeping track of you. They got you bugged. The transmitters, they're in your teeth. and they fucking came in one day and the guy had got some apparatus to do it with overnight pulled all his teeth out of his own head.

Jesus. Yes. I guess this was during his heel. Yeah. He didn't. Cox didn't know he was going to go that far, but you know. He was a stiff ribber though. He's in JFK, the Oliver Stone film.

I believe he played. the police officer in the Dallas police station carrying the gun when they... Yes, that's right. Yeah. Because he had that similar fucking giant head

to the guy in the picture. Because when you see Carl Cox, he looks like what you would imagine a Dallas police officer 1963 would look like. Yo, every bit of it. All right, well, that was guest to program. And of course,

we have to tell you about one of our friends now. Well, you know, Brian, now that we've finished that mental exercise, as I feel like doing whenever I exercise anything, I need to lay down. But thankfully, for the folks out there, you will be happy to know that I'm laying my weary body down

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on in case of emergency. Helixleep.com slash JCE. My thumb hit too many notes there. All right. We are back. We are back Jim here on the show, and it's been so much fun so far. We've got a few more things we're going to do here today. I'm going to try to get a few questions in also, but we're going to try something we haven't done in a while. We're only going to do a short match because we haven't done this in a while.

But the requests have been there. We have heard the demand a Jim Cornett watch-along. It's time to bring that back and get ready for more in 2026, but tease everyone with a short one right now. We're trying to figure out how to do this so that everybody can play along because when we're watching something, ads pop up for certain people in certain places and things. And I don't know how this works, but we're going to go to the WWE Vault YouTube compilation

that had two hours of rock and roll and midnight express matches. We're just going to do the first one and watch that. It's a nice little short thing. and see if that works out for everybody. What do you think of the name of the video itself? Tag team wrestling's greatest rivalry? Two hours. I don't know why they put a question mark on the end of it.

But otherwise, and that it pretty much summed it up. Does it need a question mark? That's the question. No, it doesn't tag team wrestling's greatest rivalry. And then two hours of rock and roll and midnight. I don't know if they put the best stuff, the best two hours, but there was a few things in here that I hadn't seen in a while. But when you've got such a plethora of things to choose from,

how can you narrow it down? Once again, this is on YouTube, the name of the video, Tag Team Wrestling's greatest rivalry, two hours of Rock and Roll Express versus Midnight Express from the WWVault channel. Some people, including us, may get hit with ads. If you're on YouTube premium, you won't. But we're going based on these times,

timestamps and we're going to watch together with no audio. And I guess we should say the first match is to set the scene for this. This was Mid-South Wrestling Television. We taped it on April 25th, 1984. And basically the previous week, I'd signed an open contract for any team that wanted to challenge the Midnight Express for the Mid-South Tag Team title. with certain conditions, all of the baby-faced teams in the territory

were specifically mentioned as not being eligible. Because I had some reason. We won't face the Rock and Roll Express. We won't face Hacksaw, Dougan and Magnum Team. We won't face any of these people, right? None of the baby-faced teams, but it's an open contract. And then earlier in this program, we had beaten Greg Kozlov and Jason Walker.

And then in the second match, we had beaten John King and Tony Torres. And then we're standing around in the ring waiting for our next challenger. We can do this all night. And that's when Boyd Pierce and his green couch cover is about to make the announcement of our third opponents. that's kind of the scene that we've got going here. That's right. taped at the end of April 1984, and what we'll do is we'll play some of this audio

so you can break down you and Boyd Pierce interacting before the match begins. So let's go to this before we do the watchlong of the actual match. This is your second standby bout and third match for the Mid-South Tag Team Championship. One fall or television time remaining, We have already introduced the Mid-South Tag Team Champions.

I have news. Matchmaker Grizzis Smith told me during the last commercial break that we have new challengers coming in for this next match. They have purchased the open contract and will be the challengers for the title. It's Mr. Rissing and Mr. Rising number two. I don't care the way the thing's supposed to be. I gave a list.

They weren't on the list. I didn't think they were. Mr. Wrestling And Mr. Wrestling and Mr. Wrestling 2 were heels. I didn't think to put him on the list. And for anyone confused, Mr. Wrestling here is the wrestler you would all know as Mr. Wrestling too. He decided he was number two to nobody when he turned back heel or turned heel, actually

for the first time there. And he became Mr. Wrestling. Mr. Wrestling two became Hercules' Hernandez. Correct, because Hercules had been one of the assassins with Jody Hamilton in the Carolinas when he came to Louisiana and he still had the masks. So he was briefly Mr. Wrestling Two alongside, as you said, the original Mr. Wrestling Two. And then when two left the territory, they took the mask off Hercules, he became my bodyguard. Let's go back to this audio, Boyd Pierce, giving you the bad news.

We've already beat wrestling too and some of his protegees. We can do it again. They were not on your list of exceptions. Here they are the challengers. Okay, and here we go. Well, Jim, real quick, let's stop because the action's about to begin.

The time stamp on this video is one minute, three seconds. One minute and three seconds. Press play now. And it basically, we're just going to jump them at the start and get into the fight. And then as they get the robes off,

when the boys have time to look, they realize, oh, shit, it's the Rock and Roll Express. And the fans are saying it's the Rock and Roll. And they have not at this point, I did at that point, I didn't know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch. Because Robert went with the drop kick. Ricky was going to punch me.

So I just kind of went in the middle. But now the fans know what's going on. They have not had the opportunity. to see the midnight in the rock and roll except for a time or two before we had had the program where we won the belts from wrestling two and Magnum T.A. And then we had had the one TV match with the rock and roll because they were still involved in a program with the Russians. And that was just a little tease to show the fans what it would be like. Then we did the angle with Watts and we're in the middle of the last stampede tour. So by the time this is,

is going to show the stampede is finishing up and now we've got some type of personal issue going on with the Rock and Roll Express and look how sharp Ricky is. Every movement that Riggie Morton made was just so sharp and meant something. And again, Dennis Condry, he put himself in a hammerlock. Dennis was never lost. He was always in the right position. He was leading the matches. And then again, these guys, what did we do on the age list? Robert is 25, Ricky's 27, Bobby's 26, Dennis is barely 30. And all we had to do was show, again, look at the beel and out the head scissors, and boom, in that ring, sometimes it was a little hard.

All we had to do was show the people how fun. much action they were going to see and then give them a personal issue because they already liked the rock and roll and they already hated us so once we got legitimate heat with them that's why it fucking drew and as this is all called in the ring nobody's going to make a big mistake we know we've only got three or four minutes after the bell bobby's just incredible and Robert Gibson, you can see the shape he was in and the way he could move at that point, he's overlooked because he was partners with Ricky. And now we've got to slow it down just a second while the people are screaming and chant rock and roll

so that we're going to go to the finish in a minute because we ain't got much more time. If we were going 100 miles an hour into the finish, then when we go 100 miles an hour and a finish, it wouldn't make any fucking sense. And I'm droning on, Brian, but feel free to jump in. No, you're telling the story, and that's what people want to hear. I mean, this is all four of these guys. Can't even say at their peak because their peak continued for quite a while. There's a false tag.

Ronnie West, a referee, didn't see it. It was behind his back. Robert Gibson over the top rope, that's a disqualification at that point in time in mid-south. We should have been disqualified, but the referee, he didn't see it again. Now we're going to go for our finish that we've been using on Riggie Morton, but he overbalances, boom, shoves Dennis into Bobby, and then rolls Dennis up as fucking to Hoot is going to try on these rubber band ropes

to get a superplex, and there we go, double cover, one, two, three. It would have been a little smoother had the ropes had any tension in them whatsoever. But nevertheless, that's... That's how the Rock and Roll Express, boom, won the tag team titles. It gave us the ultimate bitch. We didn't even know we were going to wrestle them until they hit the ring. They lied and obscured their identity. And then we come in in this impromptu match and get beat in a manner like that

because the referee was all out of position. And then once that played, then we started on a program with them. and then the next thing we needed to do was fuck them up, which shortly afterwards, right when the last stampede ended, that's exactly what we fucking did. What can you tell me about that ring,

the Irish McNeil Boys Club? Oh, well, it wasn't just the ring itself. It could be good. It's just you never knew who was going to set it up because they had people that hung around the Irish McNeil Boys Club set the fucking ring up. and if they got somebody new, the ropes, you know, you couldn't,

you couldn't support yourself on them. You just had to kind of work around it. And that's, anyway, that's, it'd be a couple weeks later on the next TV, we would do a contract signing where I'd put up 50 grand to get another title match with the rock and roll. And then we had that on TV the following time where that's when I,

we ethered them, and fucked them out of the fucking belts and that really started the heat that we ran with all summer. Summer of 84. I can't even think of or hear Van Halen jump without thinking of the Rock and Roll Express in their car.

Super Date at the Superdome. There it is the Rock and Roll Express versus Midnight Express from Mid-South Wrestling as seen on YouTube. Jim, let's get a few questions before we get out of here. I had them here. Well, you know, because that's the thing is a lot of people have been emailing us and say,

we're not doing any questions as much as we used to anymore because there's always the big show over here and the injury over there and the catastrophe over here and the controversy over there. But people are email and say, we're sending in the greatest questions ever. We're sending in questions. People are demanding all over the world to know the answer to and you guys aren't asking them. So there's all these incredible questions and these interesting topics that's just sitting there, and we're going to jump in right now because if all these people are saying they're demanding

to know the answers, we got to find out. I'm trying to find some good questions here. I'm scrolling. Here's one. Well, see, that seems to be the problem. Every time people write and say we've sent in the best questions that we've ever seen, and you won't ask them, we go to find all these great questions. A lot of these questions ain't that great.

This one was sent in via the cult of coordinate Facebook group by Hollid Love. Oh, come on. That's the name. This is one of those questions for you, John, you're asking for. AEW has been mismanaging stars, putting on bad shows, bad spots at least, and they are suffering from diminishing ratings. if you were talked to turn the entire company around, which actions do you think would need,

that's in caps, to happen right now, oh no, to happen to write that ship, excuse me. Did he say what I, if I was tasked and he just typoed it, if I was tasked with... Or talked into, but yeah, if you were in charge of the turnaround of AEW. Well, gosh, you try to kill me? These are the kind of questions we get. Can Jim on the spot book a nine-month program with wrestlers he doesn't like?

Things like that happen all the time. Well, no, if I was 25 years younger and somebody said, hey, it's your job to make this a successful, ongoing enterprise that gains viewers instead of loses them and sells more tickets instead of less of them, time goes on and et cetera, et cetera, the first thing I would do is not do anything myself. I would find other people. I would get good announcers for the television show. I would get a good booker for the company in general. I would find,

separate the wheat from the chaff on the indie-minded, blaze, boring, interchangeable dipsets and who's got some type of of charisma and appeal on a talent roster and start pushing those people with the talent and the appeal and the charisma and less of the interchangeable, you know, trampoline kids, I would certainly try to go through the entire office. And we don't know who these people are. Who works in the office? I know there's 400 people in fucking Stanford.

that are doing some marketing, merchandising, live events, all these jobs. Who does any of these jobs in that company? Sanjay. And is there any way that we can find people who have, I don't know, like experience in these various things and talk to these big Hollywood agents and sponsors and movers and shakers instead of, you know, a guy's wife is mailing out his t-shirts? I'm just, this is the kind of thing.

You can't just say, oh, you're going to get a new booker and everything will be good because you've still got talent all over the place and a lack of infrastructure in your office staff. And, you know, there has, I would just try to find who was in what position and what are the goddamn alternatives that we could get for somebody with more experience that had more on the ball that might have a better idea of how to do things than whatever the fuck it is they're doing? And that would go for television production, wrestling staff, definitely Tony the Booker. There would be nothing wrong with Tony Kahn if he had said,

I'm going to finance this thing because I want another. wrestling promotion to succeed and an alternative to the WWF and blah, blah, blah, if he had then put people in charge of all of this shit that knew what the fuck they were doing. But instead, it's become his childhood dream to do this for real. And as his recent interview said, as long as all the guys are happy and having fun, and he's having fun when he leaves the building, the hundreds of millions of dollars didn't matter. So to actually make it something that, again, like I said,

would gain popularity instead of lose it like they have and burn all their talent out, hurt all their talent, hurt all their goodwill, just fatigue the fans with endless stuntman bullshit, figure out a way that we can get all the people working toward building it where it gets bigger and you can't do that with this indie-minded bunch of nitwits and their amateur hour fucking productions in a variety of ways well the other thing is it's not as simple as slotting a gym cornet or in anyone into that position because anyone who takes over if we're talking about like someone taking over the company and running it for Tony, booking everything.

It would be a bigger culture shock than Bill Watts taking over WCW and 92 because of what the talent are used to. Yeah. John Moxley, I'm not a fan of his. That sounds like Dave now. Hate what he does. Hate everything about it. Hate his promos.

Hate his wrestling. Hate his matches. Hate his instincts. Big star. He's a star. Do you think you'd be able to at this point in time of someone to, took over AEW, sit down with John Moxley, and not do what he wanted. And I'm using him as an example. He's not unique when it comes to a star in AEW. If all of a sudden someone came in

there and said, I have the book, this is what's going to happen. I don't know how to take it. Well, see, no, with Moxley, it wouldn't be a problem because he'd be one of the first people to leave. because again, I said it's not about just getting a new booker it's about getting new everybody. At this point, it may be a fruitless task at this point anyway because it is what it is. You don't get a second chance to make a first impression a lot of times.

People are used to what AEW is and people who have tried it before and said, what the fuck is this? They ain't going to try again. people who didn't try it before ain't really going to be trying it now and the people who are left are fine with what it is but if you want to

change it, make it bigger, make it more professional make it a long ongoing thing if Tony Kahn gets hit by bus and they're all fucked right now but at the same time if Nick Kahn or Ari Emanuel or any one of 20 other people get run over by a bus they'll hold a brief service and go back to work.

So you've got to build something where everybody is a competent professional in charge of everything. And you're going to have wrestlers on the roster that are going to fit your fucking ideas. You're the movie producer. You're the movie director. He don't fit the part. John Moxley is the example of everything it's been wrong with AEW until now. his mindset, his matches, his philosophy, his whole fucking thing. So he would not be asked to participate.

They lost CM Punk. And it hurt them, but they're still in business. You think they'd lose 20,000 fucking viewers if they lost Moxley? You cast your movie with the people that can play the parts. Let him go be in somebody else's fucking movie. All right. Well, that's how we would turn around the AEW. Jim, another question here from the Culta Cornette Facebook group was sent in by Brandon Hitchcock.

I'm reading the Irresistible Force, the Brian Solomon book, and I was wondering how the landscape of wrestling today would be different if Gorilla Monsoon had been given the company. Was wrestling destined to move away from the territory system regardless? And Vince just made the inevitable happen quicker. That should have been a question. there at the end that I completely screwed it up. But you get the point.

Was everything that happened inevitable? What if Guerrilla Monsoon, as it seemed was the plan, been given the territory as the other partners aged out? Well, not been given, been the one to buy them out and run the thing. It wasn't like, oh, we're about dead. We're going to give this whole thing to Gorilla. But he was the guy behind the scenes, and he was the mover in shape. And when Vince Sr. got sick and the other partners were old and then here came Vinnie.

Out of nowhere, out of nowhere. The expansion wouldn't have happened because Gorilla wouldn't have done that to all the people he'd been doing business with for the previous 20 years. And he also would have seen that it would damage the business in general, the idea of the wrestling business, which it did. When Vince did what he did, it damaged the wrestling business in general. And Gorilla was not a, he loved money and he had plenty of it, but he wasn't so fucking greedy that it's all about me and my thing and everybody else's fucking peril, and I'm going to make more money and I'm going to rule the world.

They would have continued to operate the biggest grossing territory in the country in the world with the big major markets, and they would have been a much more wrestling-oriented product because Gorilla didn't hate it like Vince did. And I don't think you would have had the incredible, you know, attitude era where one company is blowing everything else out of the water or you wouldn't have the monopoly you have now. You would have had, wrestling would have won rather than sports entertainment.

because even if guerrilla and the WWF had gotten bigger because of cable, he could have figured out a way to work with the guys in Georgia. It wouldn't have been a goddamn cutthroat war where they wouldn't have had to hot shot and gone through all kinds of bullshit. And there wouldn't have really been a sports entertainment because he wouldn't have gone for that either. So you would have either had, wrestling would have won regardless because either the biggest company in the business, the WWF, would have continued to be

or the guys in Georgia would have taken over, but the WWF would have still been doing just fine. And many of the other territories may have hung around for a while long. I don't know, but Brian, there would have been no sports entertainment. but gorilla wouldn't have done that. So wrestling and one way or another,

a form of wrestling would have won, whether it was the WWF style or the NWA style, a form of wrestling would have won because... Or Vern. Or Vern. Well, they were trying to do stuff. Yeah, but I...

Yeah, but eventually, because all the young athletic talent was in the South and all of the big, major markets were in the north. One side of those others would have won. See, here's a way to look at it that's a little different because it's an event that would have happened no matter what.

If Vince McMahon Jr. Doesn't begin the process of purchasing the company in June of 82. He is considered the owner, but he still has down payments to make for the next year. If that doesn't happen, he just, he's the announcer, and then again, Gina, is going to take over. What do they do about Snooka in early 83? How different, if at all, would the reaction from the company have been to Jimmy Snooka's first incident?

And then, of course, the second one, which was eventually deemed the murder of Nancy Argentina. I don't know that Gorilla, if he was the sole decision maker, would have put up with that. because he had seen, he knew how valuable Snooka was at the gate, but he had also seen guys come and go over the many more years he'd been involved than Vince Jr. And I think he would have probably thought,

it's not that important to keep this guy around. He might do more damage to our business. We'll get somebody else over. But Vince was always about protecting these stars, And there's something to that, but you can also take it too far. All right, Jim, our next question was sent via email the corny drive-thru at gmail.com from Jason in Baltimore. Inspired by guest to program, I've been going through my collection of programs from shows I attended

and was looking through the program from Crocky Cup 87 in Baltimore. It has Dennis with the Midnight and Stan still with the fabulous ones Looking at the brackets It's pretty clear that there was a plan for a Fabs versus Rock and Roll Express match Which I don't remember ever happening Instead

Steve Kern was teamed with George South And Ricky Morton didn't even make it to the show my questions, why wasn't a stronger partner brought in for Steve? Do you remember any backstage vibes of disappointment over matches that were planned, but didn't happen? Well, let me answer that one first. I guarantee you that in those days, nobody was looking forward to having a match with anybody else for any other.

reason that it was going to be the main event and sell a lot of tickets is going to be a good payoff. Neither the fabulous ones nor the rock and roll were sitting there in the weeks leading up to the thing going, I can't wait to have this dream match the first time ever. They might not have even known about it. Because like you said, Ricky didn't make the show. I can't remember what was going on.

Brian, maybe you can. It was an injury. But he was pissed at, was that time where he was hurt or pissed at the office? I think that was when he was hurt because he was pissed at the office the beginning of 88 when you guys went to New York. Robert Gibson was brought out to announce to the fans there

that Ricky was hurt, I believe. That's, well, nevertheless, remember Stan's first day with the Middite Express was like, what, April 4th in Boston and the Atlanta TV? And what's the date on Baltimore two weeks later? They printed the program in advance. nobody knew, including us, that Dennis was going to take off.

And then nobody knew that Stan was going to be the new member of the Midnight Express until Dusty had the idea, brought him up. Well, I was okay. And then it was two days later he started. So the Crockett Cup was intended to be all the top tag teams around the world. And remember in 86 in the Superdome, we had Baba and Saruda, right? all of the various territories that still existed were sending teams. So the fabulous ones as a recognized team, blah, blah, blah.

But once that Dennis left, Stan replaced Dennis and became a member of the Midnight Express, and Dusty had all this other stuff going on, I don't know if anybody thought to goddamn get Kern another partner. I don't know if anybody gave a shit. And there's George South who's always ready to fill in and lend a hand, and they just did that because, to be honest, the fabs were obviously over with at that point. They'd been kind of on life support to begin with because that's why Stan jumped at the chance.

Stan of Steve had been in Florida. Florida was about dead. Crocket was about to buy it or take it over. Just of, I think maybe just had. and Steve had gotten a real estate license. So Stan's like, fuck, I'm making $300 a week. So really nobody gave a shit to answer your one of the questions as to why they didn't get a better partner or whatever. I mean, did you think Steve Kern was done with wrestling or do you think it was just like a temporary thing?

Stan did. One way or another, he said if he had to stay with Steve and make 300 bucks a week. In Florida, while it was still in business, or goddamn be a member of the Midnight Express, he was just happy as a clam to be thought of at that point. Jim, this one was sent via Facebook on the Cult of Cornet Facebook page by Neil V. Damoud.

He's in da Mood. He really means it. In the mood. Recently, I watched Ultimate Warriors' last match in W. against... I wish I could say I'd seen Ultimate Warriors last match. Against Owen Hart, managed by Jim. Bulldog, Vader, and Jim get their licks in during the afterbirth.

Did everyone know or suspect that this was Warrior's last match? How was Warrior to deal with the night of his final WWE match and departure? And he wanted to know if you would... Well, you weren't a talking head on that DVD, so we kind of know what you would have... said. Well, and also, I don't remember this. But I don't, to answer your question, no, we didn't know it was going to be his last match because I do remember, because I was on the creative team at the time that, you know, he left, Vince didn't know he was not coming back the last time we saw him. And then all the shit happened where they went back and forth with their lawyers. And, you know, he left. Vince didn't know he was not coming back.

letters and phone calls and everything. But wasn't that when Warrior wanted Vince to buy a million of his comic books for $2 a piece or whatever and it'll all be fine? I don't know. I tried to stay away from the warrior. I didn't like his work. I thought he was a

fucking dingbat. I thought he was a prima donna and I didn't ever really associate with him. Do you ever get physical for you when you were working ringside? Well, no. Well, I mean, he might have given me a bump or two, but not like, he didn't try to press slam you.

No. Because he hurt Bobby Heenan. Well, I was, that would have been a goddamn fruitless task if he had tried to press slam me because he would have had air in his hands. No, I think it was shit like I held him once and Bulldog ran at, at him, and he moved and Bulldog nailed me. Shit like that, right? No, there was never, when he hurt Bobby is when he closed.

Bobby was turning around working the people, you know, in the arena on the apron, and Warrior came up and clothes lining from behind on his bad neck anyway. But no, again, I just didn't want to be involved with the fucking guy, because his matches were all shits, and he was a space cadet. And so I put, I didn't have to, Vince was obviously the one that either dealt with him on all his shit or he had like a Jack Lanza where that was his dedicated agent again fine with me so but no nobody he he didn't announce that this is my last night he would always come in something would go wrong and he'd be gone and you didn't know what was going to happen all right well thank you for your question

Neil and Jim with that I'm trying to remember now and I know you're what you're going to say here in a second with that, but I'm trying to remember now if he actually ever did give me a bump of any kind on his own. Because I had, well, I had a little, whenever, whenever I didn't want anybody necessarily get their hands on me, I had little ways of turning things around. Like, when we were in Dallas, none of the Von Erick's ever fucking touched me. Because they were buck fucking wild and you didn't know where it was coming from and I didn't fucking trust them. They were stiff.

But one night in the sportatorium, I think it was Kerry. He was going to be on top of Dennis covered him and the referee was a big four-way referee was looking elsewhere and I was going to run in with the racket. And I think Ken Mantell

and said, yeah, Carrie, you pop up and fucking nail Cornette and get the racket and do whatever the fuck. Okay. And when we got together, I said, Carrie, you know what would be even cooler? It we could time it just right. I bet you could do it. I think I can. If I raise that racket and run at you and you just grab my foot and sweep my leg right out from mudding me, I'll fly way

up in the air and throw the racket up. You just catch it. Oh yeah, that'd be cool. So instead of nailing me, he just swept my foot and I just, woo, and threw in the racket. That is funny. Hey, let me ask you real quick, this ultimate warrior topic, because I guess the time period got me thinking about it. Not too long ago, there was a day where a bunch of people tried to post it in the Culticornaid Facebook group. Maybe one got approved and 12 got turned down. It was going around, it was a clip of you at ringside, but you weren't the focal point, Davy Boy versus Diesel from in your house. And the comments that whoever posted it wrote were, this was the match so bad that Vince McMahon got upset and stormed off commentary at the end of the night and yelled at everyone.

Do you remember anything about this? Well, no, I remember that match, and it's the one where I dropped the elbow on Nash's leg out on the floor, right, in one of the spots where Davies got to referee. I think so. In your house, Davy and Diesel for the WWF title, that was a worst fucking world title match I've ever been at ringside for. And again, Davey

bless him. It wasn't all Nash's fault now. Davy could have an incredible match with Brett Hart or Owen Hart or somebody when he was motivated and he was on and it was a stylistic you know, fucking

compliment. He was one of the best in the world. If he wasn't on, wasn't right, and it was a style. clash, it could suck. And Nash was not, again, I'm not trying to start a feud after all these years, but Nash was not Jack fucking Briscoe. And this thing just fucking stunk.

And I don't know what happened back at the back. I don't remember, I don't know if Vince stormed off because I was out involved in this fiasco. But I remember definitely when we came back. Because me dropping the elbow on fucking Nash's leg on the floor was the biggest pop of the fucking WWF world title match. And that's not trying to put myself over. That's saying how stinky it was. I went up to Vince. And I just held my hands out of Vince.

I apologize. He said, what do you mean? I said, for what for? For being a part of that fucking stinking abortion we just had out there? that I would have any part of it I apologize and he looked at me and saw it was fine it was fine I don't know what he told them but maybe I nipped a fucking ass chewing in the bud because I came up and admitted that it sucked donkey balls well that may be a candidate for a future watch along just to see December I think December 1995 was it in your house Davey and Diesel

for the title. All right. Well, this is your show. No, it's not. Oh, it is? It is. Shit. I forgot. Well, Happy Thanksgiving, everybody. Thank you and fuck the turkey and bye-bye.