Jim Cornette’s Drive-Thru - Episode 430

Episode Date: February 14, 2026

This week on the Drive Thru, Jim finishes his look at 1984's Top Wrestlers in their 30s! Plus Jim looks at his format for Nick Dinsmore vs Machine (Doug Basham) in OVW, and talks about Kerry Von Erich's potential, where AJ Styles ranks amongst the greats, and much more! Thanks to our episode sponsors: SHOPIFY:  Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial and start selling today at shopify.com/jce HELIX:  Go to helixsleep.com/jce for 27% Off Sitewide exclusive for listeners of the Jim Cornette Experience!  RIDGE:  One thing to pack, five ways to power! Get 10% Off @Ridge with code JCE at Ridge.com/JCE #Ridgepod FACTOR: Head to factormeals.com/jce50off and use code jce50off to get 50% off and free breakfast for a year. Send in your question for the Drive-Thru to: [e-mail]  Follow Jim and Brian on Twitter: @TheJimCornette @GreatBrianLast Merch! https://arcadianvanguard.com/ Join Jim Cornette's College Of Wrestling Knowledge on Patreon to access the archives & more! https://www.patreon.com/Cornette Subscribe to the Official Jim Cornette channel on YouTube! http://www.youtube.com/c/OfficialJimCornette Visit Jim's official site at www.JimCornette.com for merch, live dates, commentaries and more! You can listen to Brian on the 6:05 Superpodcast at 605pod.com or wherever you find your favorite podcasts!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Flogginus Hello again, friends, and you are our friends, and welcome back to another edition of Jim Cornett's drive-through right here where you have pleasant music and an old man moaning or whatever's happening behind me. I'm your host of Great Brian Last. There may be a lot more moaning here today. We'll find out what we're going to do with this man,

the leader of the cult of Cornett. Mr. Jim Cornett. Shot through the ear and you're too blames. you give the organ a bad name. Oh, that hurt mayor too. That's not nice. I have just got through and finished telling you just moments before we went on the air

that this cold weather, the medicine I'm taking from my bad ear, I think is making it worse. And then I was humming along with you. You had it going. You had the timing right. I knew I was actually. predicting the notes that were coming next.

I'm thinking, son of a bitch, he's about to just nail this one up to the wall. And then you hit that ice dagger through the ear drum and the canal and out the other side and just nailed my head to the wall. And I'll have you know, and also because of stories I'm not even going to get into,

that I've also related to you, I had to lift something heavy out in the garage. And I may have, as Mama Cornett used to say, I may have strained my milk. Strained my milk. That's what she'd say, watch out. Now you'll strain your milk. So I'm trying not to get too vehement and too passionate

and too over the top here to where I will strain. my milk any further because it's already on its last drop so what's new with you pal it's one of these pleasant shows i see uh not well you know here's the here's the goddamn thing i'll have you know another thing if the people are tuned in now if you're hearing this show would it debuts and and and in the previous 48 hours or so or whatever some major wrestling personality is dove out of a helicopter naked screaming into a fucking empty swimming pool, we're not going to talk about it because we are recording this a few days ahead of our normal production schedule for the simple fact we've found out that you and I,

in combination with our advanced ages and bad weather and extended families, cannot just sit down here every 36 to 48 hours and do this just on a fucking regular basis all year long. So we're actually recording this a couple days ahead of time so we are free to pursue a life of religious freedom for all of 72 hours before you and I see each other again. That's right. Am I complaining too much?

Is an evergreen episode is what you're trying to say in a nice way. Well, I don't know. They might turn green out there by the time they're finished listening to this. At this time of year, all the leaves are brown episode is what it is. It's the same thing. God damn, the weather. The weather outside has been frightful.

All the leaves is brown is kind of autumn. That's not winter. Well, they're brown if we can see them underneath the snow. See? but we can't because we've had snow on the ground for two fucking weeks it won't get above it got above freezing here and then snowed another inch and a half for two inches and went back below freezing but your yard people got rid of the leaves before the snow there are no brown leaves on the ground no there's just still this giant 75 or 80 foot

fucking tall maple tree that turned over in that storm the last weekend of December that it has been sub-zero temperature and or foot of snow on it ever since that I've tried to get them out here and they gave me a price on it and then things tanked so it's still laying out there how about them apples so all the leaves are not seen

that may work better how about it sucks it just sucks all right that got you moved up right there I had got my mood up. Well, it's your show there, Satchmo. Yeah. Yeah, we got, you got questions.

There's a lot of questions. A lot of questions. I've got a lot of questions already. I've got a lot of questions for you, people. We also have part three of the top wrestlers in their 30s for 1984. We do indeed. And this is my list here. We have other things we may do here and there on the show.

Is there anything you want to hijack the show with here before we start having fun? Are you trying to just bring up that I mentioned to you, I'd found another piece of paper in the files, not a piece of paper, but another number of pieces of paper in the files about something. Would you like me to bring that up now? Every time you say that, listeners stop what they're doing to find out what it is. Everyone loves you whatever you find, because you're going. you kept everything and it's all gold. Well, and this actually, it's not like this would have been hard to find

if I had gone looking for it specifically because it's in the Ohio Valley Wrestling files, the TV files, but this happened to be just for some reason, I have an extra copy that was in a stack of stuff that, again, I've been looking through as we did the TNA report, that I did for Jeff Jarrett here, what, last week on one of the programs.

But I bring it up because this illustrates a number of things that we talk about here on the program when I say either who's the producer of this match, who's the agent, whatever, it was agent before it was producer, right, the agent of the match. But it's as who's overseeing this match, who's helping lay it out? Also, I've talked about in OVW when we try to teach guys how to do television, how to hit time cues, how to understand the timing of things so that you don't step on things and run over the top of each other where people don't fucking get it. And here's what the spotlight needs to be. And how that we laid out the television is a one-hour show except when we did the two-hour specials. to keep moving and spotlight the guys and the issues,

because that's what we were trying to train the talent was you're working in a territory, and this was the things that we did on television as angles to build for the big match at the arena, wherever it may have been, that type of thing. So this illustrates it because I've spoken highly of Doug Basham in the past who

was working as machine. Brian, I don't know if you saw a bunch of this stuff or not. But of course, Doug Basham was brothers with Danny Basham in the WWE, and it broke my heart because they had such potential

and such promise before they were pretty much goddamn doomed with that gimmick. But nevertheless, Doug Basham Machine was the leader of the revolution in OVW. And he had the heels like the Damage and his girl, Nikita, and Rob Conway, the Iron Man. And all the top heels were in his group.

And Nick Dinsmore was the top baby face, local hometown guy, had been there since the beginning of OVW. He was the OVW champion. And also he was the leader of the alliance of baby faces, like Blueprint Matt Morgan and Thrill Seeker Johnny Jeter and the other guys that wanted to do things the right way. And the whole premise of these guys and their story and their angles was that whoever was the OVW champion or the top group and was in all the main events,

would get the big matches with the WWE guys that came to the gardens or six flags or television and maybe get the big contracts to go to national television. And these guys are going to cheat to do it, and these guys are going to represent OVW the right way and do it. Could it be any more simple than that? Everybody could understand that. Are you with me?

Very simple, yeah. Okay. So since that's what we built around, when we had a big OVW championship match on television, we had built to that. And that was also to lead to other things as I believe this was to lead to our series and six flags that year or whatever. But it's a two out of three fall OVW championship match on television between Nick Dinsmore the champion and Doug Basham, the challenger. Not no disqualification, don't need these stipulations,

just the titles on the line on television, two out of three. And I'm going to read you, and you can stop me whenever you want, if I'm not, if I'm not giving you this in English, because this was the way that I wrote notes to give to the boys for finishes, right?

So don't let me run off and leave you. But I basically, I've said before, these guys are still in wrestling school in effect. They're in the developmental training program, even though they are the standouts, the best of what we got. I want to make sure that they don't shit to bed on television. I'm giving them a framework to do their shit.

I'm not telling them every move to make. This is the fucking story of the match and or the timing that we want to get it in on television. We have to take commercial breaks at this point or that point. So that's things they're going to need to know because we're live to tape. Same thing as raw is live to live, right?

So these are the things that the guys in OVW had to master. So we do the introductions, machine music entrance with Nikita, Densmore music entrance, big in-ring intro, referee shows off the belt, hands it out. ding ding they know they've got five minutes to the break so i tell them a good wrestling segment trade the advantage back and forth all good sharp work but it's important also to do several good spots in this segment just not too fast don't start so slow you tell them that you're going

the rest of the show but at the same time you've got a ways to go Doug be rough but don't afraid to try to out wrestle Nick because that is their gimmick that they were both the top two students of nightmare Danny Davis who founded OVW and part of the deal was they wanted to be able to be proven to be able to out wrestle each other so it wasn't like you've got one guy punching and kicking whatever the fuck uh and I said we'll pick a spot to go to the break for two minutes after your five. And the referee had very primitive IFB at this point going on. So we could tell them, okay, two minutes to break, one minute to break,

30 seconds to break, whatever. So they've got five minutes, whatever the fuck, we'll pick the spot. We go to break for two minutes. They can breathe. They come back in segment five. It's 10 more minutes that were on the air. right so i tell them in this segment start establishing what you're going to be going for densmore is going for the cross face or the german suplex doug's going for the figure four or the

face buster which what he did was the bend the guy over and double arm like a double arm suplex but pick him up and drop him in between the legs flat of his face. But basically each of them had two fucking moves, so they're both going for those. And I say each of you try for these a couple of times, but don't get them. Always escape. Do a high spot and then go for one of those. Don't pile them in on top of each other. About seven minutes into this segment, Nick really start putting it to Doug.

Nick, you're on a roll finally as the pace is picked up with the one minute cue to the break. Nick does a spot and hits a missile drop kick. Calls for the German. Doug comes up facing the ropes. Nick waistlocks him.

Goes for the German. Doug holds the ropes once, twice. Doug let go, spin behind Nick with a quick schoolboy, one, two, three. Doug up, ha ha, Nick up, shocked. This is my short end. dug up one fall to rest period to break. Now they've gone 15 minutes and the fucking heel

actually schoolboyed and beat the baby face and he's got egg on his face and now the baby face is in jeopardy. The baby face champion is in jeopardy. And that we still haven't proven anything about who the best man is. While we're in commercial break and rest period, your thoughts. So these are your notes for this. How were these notes shared or, you know, what did other, what did the other wrestlers and the referee get?

And, you know, how often did you do this kind of thing? Every week. But for every match? Was it special attention for this match because of what it was? Special attention for this match and also because these guys could do it. If I'd have given a lot of people, when you hear the rest of the, this fucking thing.

If I'd have given almost anybody else this, it'd have been, well, what the fuck? We'd have got scrambled eggs halfway in. These guys could do this. So the better the guys got. And again, the Conway's, the damages, damage you had that great match with it. It was a Kurt Angle on the fucking show.

But I would, I wouldn't, I see these guys every fucking week, a couple times, three times a week, whatever the fuck. wouldn't give them shit to do that was too complicated in the tag team division or in the whatever the fuck so that way they always looked their best on television but when i got guys that could fucking conway and fucking rico and nova those guys they could tear the house down then i would give them the fucking thing that would tear the house down but I didn't just expect everybody on the TV,

even if they were champions or whatever, I didn't expect everybody to do the same fucking thing because they weren't all as good as each other. And some of them were greener than pepper trees. But I would do formats with the time cues and laid out, okay, your entrance, your entrance, blah, blah, blah, here's how much time you got in a segment. We're going to break.

And as you can see, I'm not telling them. them the moves or the holes or whatever, I'm giving them the fucking flow of it to where their match is building from segment to segment rather than they're just doing random shit until they do all the shit they know how to do. Hey, two more questions before we get back to this. One, did you have any worries that these two guys wouldn't be able to pull this off or to Jeff, full faith in them. And two, unless I'm mistaken,

you would have been on commentary for this match. Yes. Is it difficult, whether it's these two or anything else, to lay something out and be someone who thinks about it and invest in it? And then you're not in the back. You're actually on commentary, so things don't go right.

I'm completely helpless. You just have to go with it. I'm seeing what I'm seeing. Oh, and many times, if the kids, guys would see a fucking ballpoint pin flung into the fucking ring, they would know that they had gone completely south, and that if you see a pin just suddenly flies in the ring, or potentially on a promo past your fucking face,

that had happened. But, yeah, I mean, I had code words to Danny Davis, because Danny's in the back switching the cameras and doing the audio and playing the music and keeping the time and everything else that goes into the thing. and I had code words that I could give to him on camera switches or things of that nature. But once they were, and I could tell him, or I couldn't tell him to tell the referee, but sometimes he's telling the referee to tell them something,

and they don't know what to fuck. But not in this case. This one is what I'm saying. Yes, I had confidence in these guys. Anything can happen, but this, at the time of what we were doing, and this is the reason why I have copies of this, because this is one of, of our best deals we did. They nailed it and everybody involved in it.

But I would do something like this for every segment of every TV show we did 52 weeks a year for the guys in writing because I would then, I would have these notes and I would give them. You asked how I gave it out. Anybody involved in this piece of business would get these notes. I would go over them in a group with everybody if anybody had an idea, oh, can I not do the backdrop? Can I do the drop kick or whatever? Of course, whatever the fuck, right?

And then this would be their reminder because I had everybody else's segment to lay out and that I was out there announcing for the entire shows. Nobody could ask me a question except in a commercial break when they would send one of the referees out scurry and go, yeah, tell them, isn't any wonder I had a nervous fucking breakdown. Who was your most trusted guy in the back?

Obviously, if Danny Davis is running the production, you can't really count on him to handle anything else. Was there someone in the back that you had that you trusted to do whatever it was? Change of finish. Referee Robert Briscoe. Referee Robert Briscoe, most in let, I mean, in the average, in the early days and on average, on average, Now, there was a lot of times where we had, especially in the later years, a W.W.E. trainer or a Tom Pritchard or Lance Storm or, you know, fill in the blank.

And in that case, you know, then they could actually answer some fucking basic question that a guy might have. But if it's out there live going on, you said they were helpless too. But anyway, that's how I would give them the notes. I would go over it with them all verbally and make sure everybody said they understood it, didn't have any questions, and then these notes they could refer to because once I was gone, I was gone, right? So anyway, so now we have left the match with the heel up one fall, but everybody's, nobody's selling anything because it was a quick schoolboy on a reversal.

Everybody's fucking fine. and we're in commercial for two minutes, but we come back after the one minute rest period. So we're coming up and always is, again, I always tried to make sure whatever show I was producing, if it was Ohio Valley Wrestling, if it was a T&A show, I was in the truck, if a ring of honor, I'm in the truck.

When we come back from commercial break, I want them to be in a spot, in motion, preferably at a running, if they've been in a chin lock getting their breath for two minutes, then 10 seconds before we come back up, I want the referee tell him start fighting up and throwing elbows. And then the guy that starts fighting up and throwing elbows, and by the time he starts running and hitting the ropes for the tackle,

that's when we come up. And then the fucking announcer can say, Brian hits the ropes and comes back, but Jim with the knee, we are back, ladies and gentlemen, and continuing in this match has been the problem with the Zoneman, Tabah, daub and fernma stab. And then it's not like just, oh, there they are in the middle of a ring and a goddamn hold who we're giving you a sweeping shot of the crowd

that you don't care how many there are there because you ain't getting paid on it. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. Or did I put you to sleep already? No, I'm in trance. Listen to you. This is great.

You're taking notes. Okay, so anyway, we come up, we're in a spot. And Nick is looking good, the baby face, who's now fighting from underneath, one, zero and one. After Doug bumps, Nick starts again going for the cross face. After a couple of minutes of looking good, for Nick, Doug somehow clips Nick's bad knee and starts working the leg, including the scissor drop.

He did a nice little leg scissor drop thing. I can't explain it. But nevertheless, we know because of on the programming and in real life, Dinsmore had had knee surgery not so long ago at this point, right? So now the heels going for the surgically repaired knee of the baby face. I go back, Doug works the leg, Nick fighting back, tries to get the figure four a couple of times, but gets kicked off, small packaged, et cetera, at the five-minute queue. and now this one, a five minute cue instead of a three minutes left or four minutes left or six minutes left,

when you're getting a five minute queue to go into your goddamn finish for this thing, for this fall in this case, or this segment or whatever. At the five minute queue, he finally gets it in the middle of the ring, the figure four on poor Nick Dinsmore. And Nick fights for the ropes, but he can't get him. So he fights and fights and turns and reverses Doug. And now he's pressing the figure four. And Doug gets out of it and fucking limps off but hops back on Nick and starts kicking his ass. And shoots Nick off, goes for the clothesline.

Nick ducks and spins behind waistlock goes for the German. Doug grabs the ropes, blocks the German. Same thing that they were doing before. Nick let's go of the goddamn German and does the fucking slap back nail rake on Doug's back and that's when Doug goes ah and let's go and Nick Germans in one, two, three. And now they're tied one fall apiece.

Nick is still selling the ass whipping that he's been getting. But Doug again, the heel is up and he's shocked and he's fucking, what the fuck? God damn it. so now they're one and one but the baby face is still showing the effects and that's why because we're not going to break yet because the rest period starts one minute but nikita doug's girl jumps up on the apron to draw referee robert brisco at that point Doug spins out grabs nick's leg and pulls him out to the apron and starts working on the leg to crank on the apron of

the knee, right, until Briscoe turns around and catches him. And then Briscoe jumps down in his face and you argue out to rest period. So just that bit of business, Brian, back to the notes in a second. But again, in the brief one minute rest period, the guy, the heel can't just go over there and get on the goddamn baby face in front of the referee because then the the referee has to get him off and they got a minute. The heel manager buys 10, 15 seconds, drawing the referee. Then the fucking damage is done.

And then the referee can assert himself by getting the heel off the baby face and tying him up for 30 seconds. And then the heel jumps in. So now, after the rest period, ding, ding. immediately the heel can get back on Nick who hadn't recovered for more heat. And then there's the one minute cue to the break. So that five minute cue to go we got that's going, that's encompassed all of this. And then the one minute cue to the break, Nick fires up and does a spot ending with tying his leg in the ropes.

He did a spot where he would fucking do the deal, miss the kick, fall through, and tie his leg into ropes and the referee starts fighting trying to get him untied we go to break because on our format in our station we only had a one minute break there so i could pitch my god our last break folks 60 seconds we'll be back can dinsmore escape that's all you need so then seg seven that's the last segment we've gotten our show and we've got 10 minutes on the air So now's where we're starting to fucking get to nut cutting time, as they say. So I say, we come up with Doug working the leg. You can use the Indian death lock here.

A couple of times, Nick surprises Doug for a hope spot, false finish, small package, whatever, Doug gets back on attack. Four minutes of that, you've got a six-minute cue to go. And when I say you got six minutes, we, again, we were live to tape. We could go back and fuck with it and Danny Davis would have stay there all night and he would cuss motherfuggers

and make him do calisthenics. So it's a six minute cue to go. Doug finally get fed up. I gotta beat him. Plant Nick and go to the top for the diving headbutt. Basham did a diving headbutt just as good as dynamite, right? Nick moves. Oh shit.

Doug's fucking knocked him. Goofy. Nick makes a comeback. Sell the leg, but not at the expense of the comeback. And by that, I mean, you've got to sell the leg, but don't overemphasize. Don't do shit that requires your leg to continue to buckle because you need to look strong here. He's kicked your fucking ass for so long here. Do shit that you can do one-legged that you can do one-legged that you you can still plausibly do halfway good. That's that kind of, you see what I'm saying? So anyway, boom, not at the expense to come back to sell the leg.

One or two easy false finishes. Then Doug, gut kick Nick, go for the facebuster. Nick backdrop Doug and Doug cannonballs Briscoe. The referee's behind. Boom, backdrop, he cannonballs him, referees down. Nick gets the cross face on Doug, but Johnny Spade, the stooge of the group, right? The young whippersnapper.

He runs out, gets up on the apron. Nick rolls up out of the cross face, Nails Spade, runs him down the apron into the turnbuckle and off to the floor. Nikita, who you'll recall is Doug's female valet. Nikita rolls in, but Nick turns and sees her, grabs her, and scoop slams her. She took a wonderful slam,

and the fucking place roared. You could do that back then. Nikita rolls to the floor. Doug grabs Nick from behind with a surprise roll-up, and his referee is rolling over, because again, we didn't leave the goddamn referee

lifeless in the ring for minutes at a time. And I always told the guys, once you've bumped the reference, The clock is ticking. You can get away with a lot of shit the next 10 or 15 seconds if it's done properly before the fans start really getting pissed at the referee or wondering why, in any event, they can't get somebody else out there to get this guy's dead.

Can we call an ambulance? Whatever, right? Yeah. He always trying to get away with something when the referee is down. it's like you're in the act of robbing a bank. Don't you want to leave as quickly as possible with what money you can get? So that's the urgency that I told the heels

to impart shit like this. So boom, the referee's been down, but in time for all this shit to take place. Then Briscoe rolls over and counts on that surprise roll up. The heels got one, two, Nick kicks, dug up bullshit, nails Nick, shoots him off,

goes for a clothes line. Nick ducks and grabs Doug from behind and snatches the cross face. Now here comes the Damagea. Says Damage at a ring side. Who's obviously on Doug's side. Briscoe goes to him. Nick lets go and baseball slides into Damagea.

The drop kick, boom, knocks him down on the floor. Here comes Matt Morgan. Gets on Damagea. They fight out. the side door. Nick goes back to Doug, but Doug blinds Nick, boom, goes to the eyes, snatches his

own cross face, but at about 10 or 15 seconds, Nick gets a rope break. Now Doug is more bullshit. Rob Conway to ringside, holding the black glove behind his back and waving to Doug. Because Ironman

Rob Conway used the loaded black glove, a la Ted DiBiase, right? So everybody knows what's going on with his fucking glove. So Doug comes toward Rob but Johnny Jeter flies into Conway. Rob

drops the glove Jeter and Rob fight back through the fucking entrance way. And with Jeter on Rob, Doug is shocked. Nick hits Doug with the fucking surprise roll up from behind. Referee goes to count. One, two.

Doug kicks out. Jackie. who was the damages girl, runs to the ring and picks up the glove and rolled into the ring, but Briscoe was right there to fucking hold her back. What are you doing here? While Doug and Nick were both selling.

Chris Cage hits the ring. He's a baby face. And picks Jackie up and carries her out of the ring and Briscoe follows, but Jackie has dropped the glove. Doug rolls over and gets the glove. rolls into corner to put it on. Nick tries to pull because Nick hasn't seen the glove.

Nick tries to pull Doug out by the leg. Briscoe has turned around and he's trying to hold Nick back from the guy in the corner. So Doug puts the glove on. Doug comes out of corner, swings. Nick ducks the, and here's another thing. I've always loved this finish. And it used to be done for coal miners glove matches. but it can also be done for the loaded black glove

or you got brass knuckles or a roll of quarters or whatever. Once that loaded glove comes on or gets on your fist, you've got a hand grenade, right? And the deal is you've pulled the pin on the hand grenade. And now people are like, oh shit, all the attention is on that hand. So the longer you can delay the landing of the shot with the fucking gimmick, the more drama if you do it right,

and it's plausible, then the longer you can build a people up where they're about to shit. So Doug comes out of the corner, swings, Nick ducks the punch, grabs Doug, shoots him off. Doug ducks a clothes line. Nick goes for a body slam.

Doug drops behind him. Nick ducks Doug swing again. Ass bumps Doug into the ropes. Doug comes off the ropes with the big right as he spins into it with the glove, nails Nick one time, boom, and at the same momentum falls on top of him. One, two, three with his hand with the glove underneath him. And the fucking heel wins the OVW title two out of three falls.

We play the music. Both of them are selling, but Nick is out cold, laying there flat. Briscoe hands dug the belt. He's never seen the fucking glove because he wore all black leather anyway. And Doug is left with his arm up while he's flat on his back, almost unconscious and completely worn out by the fucking baby face that was about to beat him had he not put this fucking loaded glove on his hand. We'll see you next week, folks,

and that's the way you go off the air. That's an example of we would teach the guys how to hit their time cues, how to build the match, how to, you know, make a point. And now we want to see when we get to the arena. We want to see Densborg get another fucking chance, and that's why all these other guys

are going to have to be handcuffed to a goddamn brick wall or whatever the stipulation. is. Does that make any sense? Were you happy with the way it came out? Yes, this was, again, one of our better shows. And I mean, I haven't watched it in years and years and years. So I would imagine that there's probably something at some point. I'm like, oh, shitty, Tori was a seat of his pants or whatever. But overall, I remember this was one of our better programs. Do you ever have an issue on commentary? When you know the layout, you kind of

know where everything is going, even if you don't know move by move, where you could almost say too much too soon, or you could almost be slightly ahead of what happens. Is that ever an issue when you know so much about what's happening? I don't think that wasn't as much trouble. I could not get ahead of what was going on because, again, also, there was enough times where I didn't know or didn't think, didn't get what I thought I was going to get. but not getting ahead of, but trying to contain myself from saying what should actually be happening and telling what's happening without it being like it. I think one time I said, folks, I don't really know what's going on here to tell you here in this match.

They've just lost complete control. Maybe we just, you know, the referee needs to, I don't know. but that wasn't I didn't probably just being since this was 20 years ago or more overall just being too fucking energetic sometimes

I think was my biggest problem but I've got I've got five and a half minutes after the introductions when the bell rings to the fucking break to sell whoever's in this five and a half minute segment what they're doing and who they are and whatever. So I did get wordy.

But that's, I mean, this is an example of, you know, what I would give guys. And again, I'm not, except for the actual finish itself, as I've said, which is that's what the Booker gives you. Then he calls specific moves or whatever. But that was the, what did they do, five minute, one segment, 10 minutes, next segment, nine minutes. That's 24.

They took up 34 minutes of TV time with that whole thing from start to finish. So this was just the outline. I didn't tell him every move to make. So-and-so grabs a headlock and shoots him off and drop down and hip-toss and whatever. I'm the producer. They're the goddamn wrestlers. They had to make this good for having. half an hour.

You have any troublemakers in the back pool, a Britt Baker and complain about how much time you gave these two guys versus everyone else? No, because these two of the guys were, two of the guys were also helping train everybody in the back also. So they're sitting there like, yes, please help me do what they can do. Well, there it is a fascinating look,

a fascinating breakdown of Nick Densmore versus the machine, Doug Basham, and of course Jim, that was OVW, that was developmental for the WWE, and whether then or now, developmental is not always the most lucrative place to be. You kind of want to get out of there as fast as you can, get to the main roster, make some money. The Big Bucks! One of the struggles would be finding good meals.

You have a limited budget, you need good, healthy meals, you need something to fill you up a protein, because you're a wrestler and you're lifting weights, but also the average human being out there could use some protein as well, or whatever you're looking for. I guess, Jim, my point is... What is your point? Our friends at Factor have delicious, fantastic meals

that they could supply everyone with, whether you're in developmental or a full-grown adult. Is whether you... One of the children that they're still developing down there at the plant in Orlando, know or whether you're a fully grown adult you got to eat Brian why just you might as well just say it like this you got to eat you know I was married one time to this woman I fed her one day turn around the next day she wanted to eat again so ungrateful but folks you got to eat

yes you do that's it's a thing you got to do and you got to eat it for a couple times day usually but I'll tell you what sometimes you don't eat good sometimes you eat like coffee because you don't have time. You just get stuff from the quickie mart and you just shovel it in your face. And then you've got all kinds of goddamn leprosy going on on your lips and it's growing and your body parts start falling off.

Whenever you eat that chili from the bottom of the barrel down there at the fucking convenience store and you put it on the goddamn crackers that have probably been in the fucking closet for months. The point is you need no refined sugars, no artificial sweeteners, no refined seed oils. You do need quality, functional ingredients, lean proteins, colorful veggies.

If they are not dark enough, I have it on good authority. The people at factor hand paint some of these vegetables just to make them brighter. First of all, I have it on good authority, meaning the only authority, that they don't paint any of their food. It's healthy, real vegetables. Nothing with, I don't even why. Sometimes you go there. places. I don't even know why you're going here.

Well, because it's colorful. It's colorful because they're fresh and healthy. These are meals that fit your goals and schedule where you can do healthier eating and calorie management or eat more protein because heaven's sake. We all need more protein. That's why we're all protein. There's 100 rotating weekly meals to keep things fresh and delicious all through the wintertime.

So you can just go for it. You can just get them delivered and you don't even have to live. leave the house for the next 90 days. Terriaki salmon. That was the star of the last package from Factor I got. The Terriacan salmon. I like, I like the filet and the creamy parmesan shrimp was because I

would dip the filet in the creamy parmesan sauce that went on the shrimp and it just exploded in flavor e-goodness. But folks, the options include high-protein calorie smart, if you want to be just pussies about it. Oh, stop it.

The Mediterranean diet. You get plenty of Greek that way. They've got a GLP1 support meal plan thing there and ready to eat salads. And the new muscle pro collection

supports strength and recovery. And it just comes in the thing, always fresh, never frozen. And you can pop in the microwave, boom, if you've had they're not going to send you knives and forks. You got to supply those, but elsewise you're fixed.

You don't even have to have anything else. Just throw all the stuff in your refrigerator and in the kitchen pantry closet just out in your yard and let the homeless and hungry and needy take that because Factor can give you all you need. And there's endless varieties. Why, you can go over and over again, Brian. They have great variety.

And again, it's a rotating group of variety that is on the menu. Rotating group of variety. Chicken. steak, salmon, the stuff for everybody, and it's delicious, and we're looking forward

to the next box they send. The pulled pork and Dalmatian flanks. There's no Dalmatian. There's no... Folks, well, damnation. I thought there was. Damnation. Folks, right now,

head over to Factor Meals.com. I don't care if you want to lose weight. If you just want to eat and just not have to fuck with all this shit, just not have to... it's cold outside, you're fucking old, you're miserable, you're young, you're miserable, your hurry, scurry world, whatever it may be. Stick as shit in a microwave, eat it up, and eat it, it's good for you,

instead of the half-ass effort you're going to make. Factor Meals.com slash J-C-E-50 off, and use the code J-C-E-50 off, and you're going to get 50% off your first order, half, and free breakfast I see I'm going to strain my milk again. And free breakfast for one year on top of that. Eat like a pro this month with Factor. New subscribers only varies by plan. One free breakfast item per box for one year

while your subscription is in effect. Factor Meals.com slash JCE 50 off. Half half off. So even if it sucked, it's worth half off, and then you're going to like it. But it doesn't. It's actually delicious. chef. That's what I'm saying.

So, you know, how are you losing in this? What are you going to pay for substandard food from again, the local convenience store, maybe that gas station and Texarkana that we had that goddamn explosive

diarrhea from that fucking barbecue sauce one time? Well, let's get back here on track. Once again, Jim, what I believe you were saying was factor meals.com slash JCE 50 off. for a great deal. Once again,

try the Terriaki salmon. That's my personal recommendation. Well, thank you, Ola, Batali, Mario Batali. All right, Jim. Let's carry on over to the rest of the show here. I got a question I was sent in to corny drive-thru at gmail.com

from Kevin in Mission Viejo, California. With AJ Stiles losing his retirement match, I was wondering where Jim would rank A.J. Among the all-time greats of the business. Oh, Jesus. Now you're going to have to get me to, among the all-time grates of the last

125 years of the business, how can I win? Answer an equation like that without, it sounded like I'm taking the piss out of A.J. To be fair, I added all-time. time. He just wrote greats, but as I was reading it, I decided to add all time, but he wrote greats. Okay. Well, now we've, of the greats of the, and then what period is there? Here's the, AJ is a, and we've talked about, he's a phenomenal talent, not to, uh, not to do a pun

there, but we've just been talking about when we talked about his match at the Rumble. He's in great shape still for this, you know, as long as he's been in the business. and he's technically in the ring, he's so brilliant, and he's been used at a high level. I've never, and also I would say this to him, I've never thought that he was, and he would probably agree with me. I've never thought that he was one of the great orators

of the history of our business, but also in the modern era, that is, his athleticism has been, and lack of size, has not, been a drawback like it would have been in a previous era so he has definitely been one of the modern greats would he have been one of the all-time greats we don't know but i said just for you know longevity and time at the and unfortunately you know the first what 10 years of his national tv career unfortunately came with t and a which

he was always going to be somewhat with a ceiling there. AJ Stiles was not ready to be one of the top 10 superstars in the entire world of wrestling in 2006 or 7. He was very good. He still needed more experience and more time and et cetera. But they didn't help him any with that, you know, when that was the period, as we're talking about in our ongoing T&A segments.

That was kind of the period, unfortunately, of the W.W.E. crew, some of whom qualified is the over-the-hill gang. They'd get more attention and or more money, or both from Dixie. And the guys like AJ and Smowa Joe and et cetera weren't pushed to the forefront.

But having said that, of modern times, he's not been he's not been the guy, the Sina or the rock or the top fellow in terms of the marketing of the company, but he's been a couple of time champion and they've used him at a main event level. So I think probably, but at the same time, Brian, we've said for the last couple of years, it may be that he's seen this is kind of the time to bow out gracefully while still a major in-ring star than just oh, AJ's still around. You get tired after a while, right?

Yeah, I mean, he's had a long run. He's been in WWE a while now. Which look do you like better for him? The long hair, facial hair look now, the Billy Ray Cyrus on the gas? or the way he looked throughout the majority of his time in T&A. Well, he would have looked ridiculous if he'd have looked like this 25 years ago because he was still a fresh-faced little kid, and he wasn't on the Cyrus juice and tanned and fucking grizzled somewhat.

I think, I mean, he looks better now, but I'm not saying that he should have looked like this 20 years ago either. Does that make sense? And you talked about how 20 years ago, maybe even a little more, you know, what he was doing there, do you think TNA could have gone further with him? Or do you think they went as far as they could with him? I mean, do you think DNA missed opportunities with AJ? Did they use AJ as good as he was going to be used during that period of time. I think

with a lot of the younger guys there that had done they were names in Ring of Honor, which at that time was the most organized and kind of highest profile of the Indies. But you had, it was such a schizophrenic approach to everything.

Jeff wanted a of wrestling company. And to be honest, this was one flaw that I'll point out of, not flaw, but just a disagreement I have with Jeff. He wanted a wrestling company that had main event matches, people wanted to pay to see on pay-per-viewed, et cetera,

the whole nine yards, that they weren't doing house shows. That was television and pay-per-view. That was their business. But he wanted the X-Division guys to do just video game matches to hold the, what he perceived to be the hardcore fan at the time's attention. So he was trying to give them a little bit.

And at the same time, you know, have the main event matches with the stars, right? The problem was because TNA was starting as really kind of a niche thing itself. And because of the changes in direction of creative, we're not even going to get started talking about him. in this conversation. What you ended up having was anybody that did a high spot, fast-paced,

modern style of match got put in the X division, which included Samoa Joe at one point. It was 300 pounds. And then by virtue of the fact all the other guys except Kurt Angle that they got from the W.W. Booker

Hall when he showed up, Nash, they were all fucking old and weren't going to be doing any of that shit but they were major superstars as far as names and then there was a set so I to me I would have intermingled the guys that deserved it the Robert Roads the Samoa Joes the Christopher Daniels and or AJ Styles with the name talent that they had more

and if the named talent said to these guys, well, they can't work because they do indie or what it. Well, then teach them. Or let's sit down and come in the middle here or whatever. But less concentration on the silliness and the video game aspect. And then, you know, the other stuff that they ended up doing that we're talking about on our recurring T&A segments with just the bad outlaw type of, bad outlaw indie wrestling type of a mentality that some of the folks had.

I would have communicated to Jeff, I think better as a go between the younger guys that you saw that there was some talent in, if I could have dealt with him directly as far as being left to the mercy of the creative meetings, where one dipshit in particular had such creative ideas for everybody, then maybe they could have done more with several of those guys than they did earlier than they did. They eventually did, but it took way longer than it needed to. So as far as his place, you would say one of the best in-ring workers of his generation. Yes, that would easily be a statement to make.

You know, quick question. You brought up Jeff Jarrett before. Do you think Jeff Jarrett would be thought of differently today if he, the entire time he ran TNA was not the top guy in TNA or one of the top guys or the guy pushed triple H style almost for TNA? Would people see him differently today if he had wrestled and not pushed himself that hard or if he wasn't on those shows at all and was just producing them? And I understand the philosophy behind putting.

the belt on the person who has the company because you don't have to worry about him leaving or anything. Right. Same question. Well, therein is the first five, when did they start? 2002? The first five years, I can understand why Jeff revolved the belt around himself and or put himself on top because if you go back and look at the talent roster as far as a national name, as far as a guy that could work and could lead a match that had experience as far as

somebody that wouldn't walk out on himself or hold himself up for more money or take another deal or whatever and remember what Hogan did an angle with him and stood him up never made the appearance. Yeah. The first five years that, but then when they got. They did an angle in Tokyo, I think, right? Wasn't it?

Yes, in Japan. Yeah. And Hogan was supposed to work a big show for. for him and so Jeff got to hit him over the head with the guitar then Hogan never came to the fucking work for him. I did because he, Hogan did that angle so Vince would give him more money to do something that he was wanting to do. But nevertheless, but then after 2007, 2006, Kurt Angle came in and then they started getting a few

more fucking names that they could build around and or put in the main events and or six and and and Jeff backed up and you know slid back from that so I understand the first five years because it was just trying to get established but what I think he would be looked back on more favorably is if the fucking product had been better I mean After, you know, again, 2006-ish to 2009-ish was great, but then he was set home, then they did the whole Hogan and Bischoff thing. If T&A had built on that 2006, 7, 8, 9, when people were starting to like it and starting to, okay,

and Jeff has backed up, and now here's this other stuff, going on. If it hadn't all gone to shit, I think they'd remember, and he was just sitting in a truck, I think they would remember him much more fondly. But because they remember it now is, you know, he pushed himself on top until they, you know, they went out of business type of thing.

And that actually wasn't the case. Jim, our next question was sent to Corny drive-thru at gmail.com. This is from Will. My question is, how big of a star do you think Harry Von Error could have been had he not had the substance issues he had? I personally feel that if he was 100%

clean, there's no reason he couldn't have been a big star. Well, he was a big star. He can't say. Yeah, I was about to say he was already a major star. The question is, could he have been the Hulk Hogan level? type of carry is one of the guys that Vince wanted that he didn't get until until he it was late and he had kind of buyer's remorse on him at that point. But in the early days that Vince

started the national before really Vince started the national expansion when he got the USA Network, All-American Wrestling slot, part of the deal that he was doing was he wasn't just showing his WWF tapes and stars matches on the show. He was spotlighting different promotions. And he'd even called the promoters and said, yeah, I've got the national show. I'll put your guys top guys on so they can get them over to. And it was like his shopping list.

Remember, Bride, of everybody that he actually wanted to steal in the upcoming months when he started acknowledging that he was going to steal everybody? Yep. So anyway, that's what Kerry was the only one he didn't get then. Was there anybody else that he featured in 1983 on that cable show? Oh, yeah. That he didn't get, no, that he didn't get besides Carrie.

Yeah, I think he may have had flare on the USA Network Show, All American Wrestling at one point. Okay. Maybe a few others, but, yeah, he featured like Y,D, various people from all over the place that would end up. coming in within the next year, year and a half. So, and Kerry, not only did Vince love the, the bodybuilding look that Carrie had, which was, they were just starting to become a thing,

bodybuilding looks and wrestling, but Carey's was magnificent. And also he was the key to the Dallas, Texas market. And Vince, from early on, wanted Dallas and didn't get it for years to do big business for him. but he saw that as and the TV market. So Kerry and as a baby face

because he was like the you know, teen idol of the goddamn 80s in wrestling. The problem, I think it Kerry would have never been the champion. And I think I'm sure Vince had met him

a time or two, but Vince never spent a lot of time around Carrie personally. obviously in the early 80s because he never went to work for him. But Kerry would not have been at the promo level that Vince would have wanted his top guy to be. It would have been a little bit better than put a Texas version of Jimmy Snooka on the microphone as your champion.

But Kerry was, I think the Intercontinental title, which he ended up getting when he finally got there, what, four or five years later? 1990, yeah. You know, a lot of reliance on the 45-second inset promos they used to do at the time that were, you know, pre-taped and you could get a number of cracks at it, showcase his athleticism and his great smile rather than give him long soliloquies, that type of thing. I think the thing is

Kerry had he not had his issues would have probably would have gone for the money that Vince was willing to pay him in 1986 or even 85 when world class was starting to dovetail would he have been able to turn that down then if he hadn't if he had more clear grip on things but

would the offer even go to Kerry or would I go to Fritz well even when carry went in wasn't fritz involved in like putting the deal together well but here's the thing is when if carry was clear-minded and was injury-free and hadn't and that's another thing the wreck may have been because the wreck contributed more to the downfall of carrie's career than the substances but substances contributed to the wreck. So you see where it's a domino thing so we could argue semantics.

But the point is if Kerry was clearheaded and healthy and Fritz by 1986 is, my God, the business was not nearly what it once was and they would have known how much money Carrie could make in the WWF. So I'm wondering at what point

Fritz as a father would have made his son available to the other guy when his business is on its ass anyway and, you know, he could make hundreds of thousands of dollars the other place and, you know, a grandkid, whatever the fuck.

But by the time that Kerry got there after the wreck and the whole nine yards and, you know, everything, it just, he would have been a long-term secondary top baby face if he didn't have the issues and the wreck. I think that's one of the things I look to. The drug addiction, the drug abuse, whatever you want to call it, obviously caused a lot of personal downfall and affected at a certain point

his bookings and the condition. There's a couple garden shows he worked where he looked zonked out. And if I think that, I'm sure Vince thought it to. But even if he never touched a drug ever, no disrespect to Kerry Von Erick, but he wasn't a Hulk Hogan or a Rick Flair mentally. I don't think. He was more, you know, Vinnie Barbarino. Well, there you go, is that, you know, he had great matches

with those guys, but at the same time, he was so great athletically. I don't want to shortchange him. But think about this, though, we take it a step further. If he'd had gone earlier or just been not screwed up or whatever, he would have been a long-term guy

on the baby-face side, number two from the top or three from the top or whatever, but also during the Monday Night Wars, he would have been, what, fucking 35, 37, he was still younger than National Hall, I think, right? Yes, he would have been the WCW World Champion because you know they would have and he would have been able to live in Texas

and fucking whatever and work that schedule and he'd have been on top on the on Nitro and making a fortune. So, you know, he would have had a long. That would be the thing, the eventual carry von Erick heel turn. And that might have been good because, remember, fucking David was great as a heel when they sent him to Florida

to learn how to be a heel. Those are the only Kerry Von Erick Heel appearances, actually. He sent in the promo video by him and I think Kevin posing next to her dad and they carry one in there with feathers at his hair and everything for one of the tapings at the Sportatorium in Florida.

But, you know, so I mean, he would have been working past the attitude era and only have been in his early 40s. What about a motivated Kevin Von Erick? What potential you think he had? At a certain point, you could tell, even though he was still active for a few years, it just wasn't there.

His physique changed. It probably got more healthier in the long run, but he certainly was more pumped up to a point, and then he kind of became more natural looking. And he didn't seem as motivated as he did when he was punching everyone in the face and kicking him in the face and everything, you know, in 83, 84, 85. But what kind of potentially you think Kevin had? because I'm a big fan of Kevin Von Erick during that period of time.

Well, that's the thing. Kevin von Eric was in amazing physical condition and had a unique style because of his unique physical conditioning where he was just almost, a big 200 plus pound guy, but almost no fucking body fat and the barefoot fucking gimmick

on those Texas fucking conglum concrete floors and barns they wrestled in. And he was so wiry and had amazing muscular control and strength. He could do that. The leg scissors were, that's what he used as a finish on Georgia TV when they sent him over there to get some experience. He would hop up beside the guy and put a leg scissors around the guy's waist

and do a sit-up with his hands free, literally holding himself in the air by the tension he was squeezing the guy with until the guy collapsed and fucking passed out. This is a goddamnest thing I've ever seen, but he's the only one could get away with it. And he was a freak jumping off the ropes and all the shit,

and the fucking claw worked for him anyway because of the tendons and the sinews. So athletically, and because of his unique style, even though he was carrying potatoes at every hand, he stood out as one of the best in the business. Kevin Von Erick as a personality only worked in Dallas. Because Kevin couldn't be anybody but I'm a good old Dallas, Texas, born and bred son of Fritz Von Erich.

He had to be who he was. He couldn't be anybody else. Well, remember, he was in Georgia with a baby-faced Michael Hayes a couple years before that. Well, but he could, It just, as a world-class top main event guy, if he wanted to be a heel somewhere, I would think he could interject some little wise-assness

and have a manager as a baby face. He was so athletic and good-looking that he would get over, but he wouldn't be the top guy to talk him into the building in any other territory because he just had to be just Kevin. So in terms of potential, you don't actually Potential of what? What was the question?

Well, we're talking about Kerry Von Erick's potential what he could have been if he had been. I said he would have been a goddamn superstar till past the attitude era. He would have been WCW World Champion. He would have made fucking millions. And then Kevin Von Erick, if he had been motivated to be what he was in 83

in 1987, 88, 89, whatever. Well, yeah. Again, you know, he wouldn't have been the main event guy somewhere like he was in Texas because it was part of that he was the Texas, he was the hometown boy, the Von Erick family. That part of thing made him a huge box office attraction.

He would have been a very popular baby face in any territory, but he wouldn't have been the guy like he was in Dallas. Could they have worked as a tag team for Vince, the Von Erick's? Because again, in the magazine. Oh, yeah. Because he featured them in the magazine and was all about the family. And then obviously when David Von Erick died, he had Joe McHugh announce it on TV. They put up his image and everything.

He really was making a hard play for Dallas. It has been said, Kevin Van Erick said, that Vince offered Fritz to be his partner. I'm sure just in Dallas, not for the overall thing. Well, remember, like they did to Larry Madison in St. Louis and LaBelle and Los Angeles, or stew in Calgary or whatever, those usually didn't end well. Right. but if Vince had brought in the Von Erie, if David had lived,

I mean, if you want to look at it that way, would Vince, if he did get them, bring them in as a group? Instead of just here's Kerry, wouldn't have been, here's this family, and Kerry is the breakout star of them? Well,

I mean, ifs and butts were fruits and nuts, we'd all have a picnic or whatever they say, here's what I was going to say, Kevin and Kerry Vince would not have used as a tag team because Vince would have seen the physique on carry and he's got to be a single. He's got to be a fucking,

he's, you know, got to be a baby-faced superstar for me. He wouldn't have used even a tag team because as we know Vince doesn't like tag team wrestling. The best, so you couldn't have had Kevin and Kerry, but the best tag team amongst the brothers was David and Kevin. And they spent the most time teaming and they were the best at it. And if he'd have had David and Kevin, he would have used them as a team. I don't believe he would have used either one of them as a single.

Now, the question becomes if he'd have gotten all three of them at the same time, I don't know because that is something that never happened. when you think about it to Vince McMahon before because he would not want, he didn't want, well, with the free birds, maybe, there was three of them, but he didn't want, yeah, that same year, he didn't want guys to be, to conflict with each other to the point where two of them, you know, you got a tag team. One, in his opinion, is a bigger potential single star, but three guys, what would he have done with them back then? Because he didn't have six-man tag team matches that often.

I'm just, the free birds, because he wanted to do the rock and wrestling thing, and if what the fuck, I don't know would he have made him just an interchangeable team. I don't believe he would have gone for a Von Erick tag team and a Von Erick single. And then somebody would have got probably, probably Kevin, to be honest, because David was better promo and Kerry had a better

body. Kevin was kind of the best natural athlete, so he would have suffered the most under vets. Kevin would have probably suffered if they'd had all three of at the same time. It is the other big what-if, the freebirds, they come in in the summer of 84, managed by David Wolfe and Cindy Lauper. So that's as big a push as you can get. And they're gone shortly after that.

They come in as baby faces, just like in Dallas. Which makes you think, baby faces with Cindy Lopper, when would the turn have happened? When would Michael Hayes have turned heel? The freebirds have turned heel. Would it have been against Hogan? Would it have been against someone else? But what were the plans for the freebirds? Because again, it wasn't just the freebirds were brought in.

They were put with Cindy Lopper right away. Well, but here's the thing. I have never heard any long, term plans of what was what was to be but I think the reason why that Vince wanted them as baby face Michael had done the records

in Dallas and wanted to he I'm pretty sure at one time was legitimately convinced that he might get some songs on the charts as the kids say and Dave Wolf

Cindy Lobb they're wrestling fans plus they're for the free birds and named after Leonard Skinner there's a musical connection. They wear sparkly outfits. I don't think that was a precursor of, you know, we're all three going to turn heel on fucking who, to be honest.

Well, again, they have the big thing at the end of the year at the garden where Cindy Lopper is presented with her gold record by Dick Clark, and she brings out Captain Wu, who's always been a heel against her even, And he turns baby face because she announces that he has raised all this money for muscular dystrophy. Or was it muscular sclerosis? I think it may have not. It was something you can't pronounce, probably.

Yeah, well, he did that. He comes out there and then Piper hits the ring and says, oh, it was me that did everything. And he hits Lou Albaano over the head with the gold record and then he kicks in the lopper off his leg and body slams David Wolfe. Some cop jumps in the rigs. He doesn't know it's a work. And you can tell he's trying to get Piper out of there. Oh, I remember that. Again, I think that was the way to go, and Roddy Piper is an all-time great, but what if that wasn't Piper?

What if that was Cindy Lopper getting the award, and here are the wrestlers that she manages in there? No. One thing leads to another. Vince would have never done that. Because unless it, well, besides the fact that they were only there a month, right? Right, right. And the free bird behavior, I can't remember what the specific incidents were. but the free bird behavior, you know, took over.

I think the rumor is that, like, Andre the giant fired them. And he had enough pull. He was like, you're done. Like, what are he talking about? He said, you're done. And then whatever happened with the office. And then the other rumors, I think Gordy and Roberts may have fallen asleep in a meeting with Vend, so who knows?

Well, nevertheless, the point is Vince wasn't going to do that with them. And again, they may have been the freebie. birds but in 1984 to vince they were the guys that came in and kind of fucked up and left after a month and he didn't fucking see michael again for five years or whatever uh he was going to do it with somebody of the pipers and the hogan's and the the top guys if jim if cindy lapper was going to in any way they have records broke over her head or whatever the fuck i i i Again, there was that connection because I think Vince was like, get me a rock group that is a wrestlers.

And we'll put them with, that's the thought. And we'll put them with Dave Wolf and he'll do an album and Cindy Lauper and whatever the fuck. And just get these guys over. And they had the, there's another of the Confederate flags and the stars and bars, which Skinner had done for the previous 10 years or whatever, which was huge. but it wasn't like that he thought that he was going to do a major, you know, angle with Hulk Hogan

out of that particular arrangement, I don't think. That's your thoughts on the potential of Kerry and Kevin, even the freebirds. And when you talk about Dallas, you think about big, strong Texans, and sometimes they like the fight. What's the expression? One fight? One ranger?

No, Jesus, great. Riot, one ranger? One riot, one ranger. Well, there it is, and of course, one man, one wallet. For every man, you need just one wallet, and you need a compact wallet, a way to carry everything around,

nice and easy, without the cumbersome old wallet of old. Jim, help me, to quote Jim Cornett. Yes. Ridge wallet. Well, but the Ridge wallet, folks, I'll tell you what, by Cracky, they have done some different kind of shit.

Have you heard about this now that what's going on in the world of Ridge? The people that made you the wallet that also doubles as a pair of brass knuckles and an Oriental fighting star and a prison pouch that you can pop up the old pooper just in case you need to carry something between the cheeks?

Not one of those things is recommended. Not one. Not one. Not recommended. Not one. These are off label uses. But nevertheless, now, Ridge is going to do something else better than anybody else now that they've conquered the wallet business.

I just got this. And of course, it's probably not going to be as useful to me as the folks will understand as it will to most people. But I bet to some people, well, this is going to be a dag-gum thing that you just can't afford to do without the Ridge Power Bank. Like I said, the Ridge Wallet, because of its indestructible materials they use. and the design and everything, it's to be small and convenient.

Well, this is the same thing. Instead of having to travel around, you know, with all the young folks, they got a cord for everything. They got a cord for the laptops. You got a cord for the cell phone. They got a cord for this, a cord for that, a cord for their hair untangler.

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They've got these little nipple clamps that they just plug them in and boom, they give you the jolt. They don't have those. And they go right back in the box. Let's not list features. They don't have. they do not have nipple clamps, but this is a fine product that arrived here,

the magnetic power bank. You know how I know it's good? Multiple members of my family have tried to steal it already, but it's mine, all mine. Well, they're all plugging into it all at the same time, and they can do that because with 20 watts of power,

it charges your phone as fast as it possibly can, and that's the way you always like to hear it. How long is this going to take? As fast as possible. So no more adapters and wall out and blah, blah, blah, blah. 10,000 millie-amp hours capacity is what they've got there. That's amazing.

10,000 hours in a millie-amp's life. A millie-amp, ladies and gentlemen, besides the fact that it was born with claws pointed backwards, so it's constantly scratching itself. It also has an incredible lifespan that some millie-amps have fossils have been found in the LeBre-a-Tar pits that they live to ripe old ages. So 10,000 milli-amp hours capacity, you got three full phone charges in your pocket. That's right.

Right there. And it has mag-safe compatible wireless charging so you can keep it magnetically attached to the back of your iPhone if you want permanent extra juice. So you slap this thing on the back of your iPhone and hit that boom button right there. And you can use this thing like a phaser on Star Trek. You just use your thumb on a zero button and boom.

And you will fry a son of a bitch with a heat ray. Metaphorically, even metaphorically, that doesn't make sense. No, you will not. Metaphorically, they're going to be, they just disappear in a glow like the aliens on the invaders. Well, once again, no one wants to be away from home and not be able to power up their devices, their phone, whatever it may be. and the Ridge Power Bank, Magnetic Power Bank, is a fine product that can do all of this for you.

And I understand, Jim, there's a great deal. Well, yes, it is available in Matt Olive, Basecamp Orange, and Matt Black. I don't know what orange... Are these NXD names? The Base Camp people use, but, boom, LED charge status indicator, integrated kickstand. And folks, again, right now, one thing to pack, five ways to power, you can find Ridge's

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tape the button down with duct tape and point it down the driveway that's not a recommendation and then you don't have to worry about grandma anymore you should always worry about right and wrong and of course your family but what you don't have to worry about is where are you going to get your power from the great people that bring you the ridge wallet the ridge power bank jim you know what they're the kings of oh no money and power our power okay we can go with that we can go with that we're the kings of money and power

ridge dot com you can save 10% off of that money and then you can have all of the power J-C-E. Cramping my ribs. Ridge! All right, Jim. Fun. Did you say fun? That's exactly what we were going for here. And Jim, the fun continues for me, you, and the listeners.

Fun, fun, fun, until they take our show away. Well, what we're going to do before they take our show away is return to something we've done twice before, two different installments, trying to put together your list of the top 20 wrestlers in their 30s for 1984. Well, yes, we are. Yes, we have been, and yes, we were, and we are continuing to do that. And I was just overlooking or looking over. What we've done is, so far, I've got like 20-something checkmarks of people that are

supposed to, and we still got a bunch of names left. But again, for those of you who have been filed, we started off with the 20s because this whole thing was instigated by some wise ass on the internet doing a list of the 20 best wrestlers in their 20s today and we said Jesus Christ that's it you say some wise ass on the internet I think it was like Sports Illustrated well some group of wise asses and we said that's it and then you went back and compiled a list well here in 1984 here is who was in their 20s, and here's who's in their 30s, et cetera. And out of the 20s, we got

Barry Windham, Brett Hart, Dynamite Kid, Terry Gordy, Arne Anderson, Brad Armstrong, Bobby Eaton, Buddy Landell, Chris Adams, Kurt Henning, Dr. Death, Hercules Hernandez, Jake Roberts, the Von Erick's, Magnum T.A. I mean, there's tons more. The Rock, Royal Express, the road warriors, good Lord,

Rick Martel, David Schultz, just name after name after name. We're in their 20s, and there's twice as many in their 30s. We've already gone through. Hulk Hogan, J.Y.D. Paul Orndor, Farati Piper, Sergeant Slaughter, Tony Atlas,

Andre the Giant, Brewser Brody, Jerry Lawler, Ricky Steamboat, Rick Flair, Stan Hanson, Ted DiBiase. That's just, and tons more, dozens more, and we still haven't finished. And we're going to pick up from where we left off, and so far, you have a heck of a list here of the people who would make it. Hogan, Y.D, Orndorf, Piper, Slaughter, Andre, Bruiser, Brody, Butch Reed, Dennis Condry, Dusty, Dusty Roads, Hacksaw Duggan, Jerry the King Lawler, Rick Steamboat, Rick Flair, Stan Hanson, Tatsumi Fugrami, and Ted DiBiase, with question marks going to Valentine, Kamala, Morocco, Atlas, Murdoch, Murdoch,

Buddy Roberts, Ron Garvin, and Tully Blanchard. See, you got better notes than I do. And that's where we're at. Jim picking back up. And that's not even the whole list. that's just the people that we have checked marked for potential inclusion in the best of these folks. And again, we're looking at who was in their 30s in 1984,

Jim, 31 years old. Precious Paul Ellering. And to be honest, Paul Ellering is most noted now for being the manager of the road warriors and not noted as a wrestler but until he had I think they were

pretty severe knee injuries there might have been something with his back also but in 19 let's say 1980 81 82 Paul Ellering was a top fucking wrestler

precious Paul with bleach blonde superstar Billy Graham look had a really unique way of working and taking bumps and shit and was entertaining on promos. But by...

He was great on promos. He was really entertaining on promos. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And he got used on top. Well, as a baby face when he was green, he was still a rookie. Jared had brought him in

with a connection with Vern and used him as just this dark-haired, muscular baby face, and there was bleh, right? And then... He went somewhere and came back to work against Lawler when Lawler came back from his broken leg. That's right. He was a king, wasn't he?

Yes. Well, they turned him heel first with Jimmy Hart. Jimmy Hart gave the Lawler's crown to him. But he still, he didn't start doing the superstar gimmick. I think he went to Louisiana work for Watts. 81, early 82, he was there. and his promo stand out because he's this wacky Billy Graham character off Rieserboughton. And it's amazing to see that.

And he's getting over. But there's at least two different times that he disappears off TV because he hurts his knee, I believe. And then he comes back and the same thing happened. So it was working, it seemed, but it also didn't take full flight because he kept getting hurt. Well, and see, that's the thing, is they brought him back when Lollinger. came back from the broken leg. They brought him back to Tennessee to work. And that's when he had the blonde gimmick and the whole thing.

And the match was great because he was doing great shit. And he was an entertaining heel. But the point is, after we've said all that, by 1984, he had pretty much wrapped it up in ring and was heading up the, what would be basically the Legion of Doom at first was the Road Warriors and other heels. I think Jake was in it at one point, blah, blah, blah. Bundy!

So, but, so Paul really was primarily a manager from this point on. Which version of Paul, the manager do you like best? Do you like the kind of new wave, bleach blonde hair, early days of the Road Warriors manager, or the, I'm going on a safari version from the late 80s? What's your favorite version of Paul Ellering? I think really the dark hair but the rolled up Wall Street Journal and kind of like the what's it not a kimono but remember that kind of film that he used to wear with the

you know dragging on the back or whatever yeah that kind of thing yeah is so he's not on your list for for this well no he came because he's fixing not to be a wrestler anymore Jim 31 in August Stan Lane of the fabulous ones. And here's now, here's the problem because we effective, we gave Dennis the check

mark because we gave both the rock and roll, both the road warriors, both the midnight check mark. Stan was not a member of the midnight at this point and while he was the fabs were a top team for

in 84 both Vern and the Tennessee territory and Stan Lane of the Fabs doesn't hang with this company. The Fabs didn't do what the midnight did. So I can't in all good conscience give him the check here. Jim, the next one here is one of those guys that I was surprised

when I found out how old he was years later. At 32 years old in October, Dan Spivey. And boy, at that point, he had really just started, right? Yeah. Because the, Dusty had seen something in 85-ish with Scott Hall and Danny Spivey and made them the tag team of the American Starship, Eagle and Coyote. And I think at one point, had a...

him under some kind of personal services contract. He was going to give him this big push and thought they'd get over great. I usually admire Dusty's evaluations, and on Hall, he was right, but I never saw what anybody saw in Danny Spivey. Just a

big, clunky fucking guy. But having said that, he was nobody at this point, because he wasn't even a member of the American Starship yet, or was he just barely in 84? I believe they weren't 84. Yeah, I think they did an in 84 for Crockett and then...

For Crockett in 84, yeah. And then 85 is when Scott Hall went to work for Fern. Yeah. So, yeah, no. Jim, 38 years old in September. Tony Garria. This is... That's a surprise in the other direction.

I can't believe Guerrilla was ever that young. Tony Garia's day had... pretty much passed at that point and he was transitioning into agenting for Vince at that point, I would think, except for Kostin on his name, Tony had spent most of his career up there working since Vince Sr. And was one of the middle card baby faces, the guy that would put over,

the guy that was going to fight the champion, co-holder of the tag team titles with numerous, baby face partners. Like five times, yeah. Yeah, it was always used upper, upper card, but not in the main events. And then... Great hair.

Which he kept until, I don't know. How old is Tony dead? Or is Tony still alive? I think he's still alive, and I think he still has his hair. Well, good. And how old would he be now? Hold on. Let's do this math. He would be 80 this year. And I can Tony, very clean living looked in good shape,

very serious fellow, so I can think he's probably doing okay. But not on this list. That's one of the things as a kid that stood out about all the agents at the time whenever they would run out to break up a fight or something. They all had interesting hairdos. Like Renee Goulet was out there with his do and Garilla's out there with his buffant.

Like everyone had their different thing. And they all stood out because of that. but Jim, 32 years old in November. Wow. Randy Macho Man Savage. I think we got to have a question mark for, or a question mark, a check mark for him there. Because 1984 is the year that he worked in Memphis that they had made up with Jared, the Pafos, and he got the run with Lawler, and he put himself on a fucking man.

map as not being just an outlaw guy and a troublemaker. And he wasn't a troublemaker. And then by early 1985, that's when Jimmy went, Hart to work for Vince, he's a, yeah, you got Savage right down there and boom. So at the end of 1983, Randy Savage was basically jobless, unemployed. his father's company was going out of business. As we found out, he got booked briefly in Mid-South wrestling for Watts, but when Dundee got the booking position, that was quickly rescinded.

And he ended up making up with Jarrett and doing the angle with Lawler, which was probably best for everybody, because not only did they do some business in Memphis, but also he was there to get over with Jimmy Hart, who was there to pitch him to Vince the next year. But in 18 months, he went from unemployed and pretty much pitiless to be in the next WWF champion. So 84 was his kind of year. That really was the breakout in a lot of ways.

Jim, turning 30 in December, so just making it in under the line, Lanny Poffo. and I mean again Lanny did the exact same thing as he went to work because he was already in Mid South but he was jerking the curtain in Louisiana whereas when they agreed to do the deal with Savage and Lawler in Memphis as Randy's brother he became valuable as a main event guy in Tennessee so they just when Watts brought a bunch of us in from Memphis he sent some of those guys back and Lanny gets overlooked but he was in that main event run that year because it was and Angelo was managing him but of course now does Lanny deserve the checkmark as one of the 20

best on this list is unfortunately no that's another story. Jim, 39 years old, someone you were familiar with this year. Sunny King. Good Lord. I didn't check everybody's driver's licenses at that point, but if you'd have told me Sunny King was 50 years old, I believe. He did look older than he was. Well, that's the thing.

He never changed appearance, but the way he moved in the ring. But of course, this wasn't. after his open heart surgery, but I saw him a lot of times in the late 70s before his surgery. And he was only 27 years old when he had that run with, in the WWWF in 72 with who, Strongbow as the champions? That's right. So he never aged visibly, but his work, Sunny had the most unique style ever.

And when he was younger and quicker, and he had a look and size, he got over and was a star in places, and he could do his own kind of promo, the kind of people that like that kind of thing. It's the kind of thing those people like. But by 1984, it was Dundee, because they all, Jared and Dundee both liked him from Memphis. He'd been in the Tennessee Territ.

between 78 and 82, like three or four runs. And so I think that was his last run. And 84 was Louisiana before he quit. And it was just, it was brutal. He was just, he'd slowed down and it just, that's what the one buddy Landell, buddy hated working with him. And he had to work with him like two or three weeks every night in a row

around a territory in the middle of the card. And he was putting him over because Sonny was a baby face. They were trying to replace Y-Y-D. And one night we're all standing in the back watching the fucking match. And it's just a worst Buddy Landell match. Oh, this fucking thing. It's hurt the fan's feelings. And finally, Sonny King's finish was he'd shoot the guy off and he'd just,

it was supposed to be a flying headbutt like a Mill Mosquerous flying cross headbut thing. But by that point, he'd just take a couple of steps towards you and just lean in and put his hands on your chest and kind of leave the ground. Maybe. And when he shot Buddy in and he'd lean in and he did that, as Buddy went down and Sonny covered him, one, two, three, and as Sonny got up to his feet,

buddy looked like in the Exorcist or something. He did some kind of fucking against goddamn gravity sit up right underneath him with his finger and Sonny's face. And we could read his lips from the, goddamn back. That's the last fucking time I'm putting you over. And he came back in.

He's got that fingers shaking. He came back in. God damn it. This is a bunch of bullshit. Do it where Bill? Bill, I can't do it anymore. God damn it. It is one of the weird things because 84 Mid-South

is one of the great stacked rosters in wrestling history. and everyone everyone's performing. Like no one's underperforming, but there are these weird anomalies at different points in the roster, like, you know, Masawi, though,

but then he's gone. But what the hell was Sunny? In the middle of this youth movement and all these stars, Sonny King. Try to replace dog. They went through every available African-American individual male

in the business between the ages of 25 and fucking 40. Well, he came in before the dog left, though. Well, but that's why they were pushing. Dundee, like I said, had liked him from Tennessee, and he was a wonderful fellow, but he, and they tried to, they kept trying to push him and use him after dog left,

just the idea of get more black faces on the card, but it was brutal. And his promos, he was slow enough he made Rieser Bowden the Hair. in that situation. It was an acquired taste, yeah, it was an acquired taste with his promos because he was so laid back and so, you know, and that's why, honestly, they tried to make him a manager in Tennessee in 78, but he was managing Joe LaDuke. Joe LaDucke was a great promos of all time. Anyway.

Well, Jim, back to the list here, putting it together. 32 years old in October, a future member of your stable. Rip Oliver. Cripler Rip Oliver, who started in the early 70s as Rick Oliver and got the rip, I believe, when he went to Portland the first time around. Rip again, he was a good territory heel.

He was a good promo. He could work. He didn't have any kind of a fucking muscular body, but he was big enough and impressive looking enough for those days. You can get away with looking like Kenny Rogers, back in the day. Yeah. And he had the beard and the whole nine yards.

But he can't be top 20 on this list, but he had a stellar career, especially in Portland for Don Owens in the Northeast where he was on top. Northwest. Years and years and year. Or north. Yes, northwest.

I'm sorry. The other side of the north. But he was on top for years and years there. That's why they had brought him in. And I managed him in Dallas for like, three months or whatever because he came in with Billy Jack. We've told that story here recently where Billy Jack was supposed to take Carrie's place

if Carrie got the movie and he brought Rip with him as a heel to work with and none of it panned out. And the last thing, Mike Von Erick never got even with Rip Oliver for getting suspended for fucking slamming his hand in a door. I think it was 82. It was one week on Georgia TV, Rip Oliver and Buddy Rose shut up as a tag team wearing our matching jumpsuits

and it looked awesome or sweatsuits I guess I should say and it looked awesome. It was kind of cool. But Jim, back to the list here. 33 in October, Iron Mike Sharp. Good Lord, that's, I didn't get to know

Mike Sharp until the 90s when I went to the WWF because that's where he spent most of his career, honestly. and Mike was one of those got legendary for taking 18 showers in the locker room and running the stairs at one in the morning

until they locked him up in the building and shit like that. A good talent did a lot of people remember him because of all the time he spent on that late 70s, early 80s, WWF television, but he doesn't really, doesn't hang on this list, does he? He was good a year, a half earlier, and mid-south.

He got a good push, got a state championship. But once he went back to the WWF, they kind of briefly used him well. And then he just became, I hate to say it, but, you know, an enhancement guy on TV, but he was one of the ones that would have a little more of a competitive match. And he had a gimmick in a way, just the, it would get people going. You know, I always wondered what would have happened if he actually did get a push, because there was something, there was something,

he would get fans going into his matches. Well, see, also I think that he lived up there and never moved. Yeah, in Jersey. Yeah. So I think they thought,

okay, he lives here. We keep him a little happy. He ain't going to go anywhere else. But he could have, you know, probably gotten a, not a main event spot,

is like a money-drawn, perpetual over guy in a territory, but he could have been a main event heel in a stable or in some of the other territories done well, like Mid-South, as you mentioned, but then he'd have to move around a lot. And he actually ended up having a big influence

on Northeast Independent Wrestling by opening a training school, and that was the school that I believe Devin Storm went to, Nova, Donnie B, I want to say, Mike Maraldo, maybe, Rick Ratchett, like a lot of the guys that were all over the New Jersey, Northeast Indies

in the late 90s, that's where they got their break. where they were trained was Mike Sharp school. That makes a lot of sense because they all also, they had good personal hygiene. All those guys you mentioned were very clean. So they had to train under Mike Sharp. All right, Jim, back to the list here. Well, his OCD was a little funny.

It's been a subject of conversation. 33 years old in May. Dirty Dick Slater. Wow. If this was a 1974 list, then I think that it would be a lot different. But even though Slater was in the business for what another five or six years on a mainstream level after 1984, he's not on an upward trajectory at this point, is he?

But in Florida, in Georgia, in the Knoxville territory, through the mid to late 70s and early 80s, he was figured in everywhere. He would end up having a pretty good 85 just because he has that stint in Mid-South as the Booker where he had some good stuff with him and Butch Reed, and there was a lot of good matches, but... He didn't have too much fun booking that fucking part of 85 in Atlanta when Crockett had taken over. Well, again, 85, he goes from booking in two different places and being a top star to being

the Rebel Dick Slater in 86 and WWF. And never really reached those heights ever again after that. And I mean, there was the run. He was, remember, he was part of Gary Hartstable with Terry Funk and Luda. But he was in and out. Well, that's the thing. He was in it, but he was still able to work, but he was also, as we know, he was a different type of individual.

And he wasn't really somebody that they wanted to depend on at that point. I mean, I think he was the one in the tag match with Muda, the main event where Terry Funk showed up and put the bag over Flair's head, right? Clash of Champions. Yeah. I don't remember him with them before that or after that. I have no memory of anything he did with Gary Hart other than that. I mean, I'm sure he did stuff, but that's the point.

He doesn't really seem like on the way. Well, as I recall now, I think it was kind of brief. I was on creative at that point. So, but nevertheless, yeah. Well, Jim, he may not be on the list for 1984, but what, about this man, 36 years old in July, only 36. Carlos Colon. Good Lord.

Looking back at the pictures of him and that roadmap forehead from the 80s, I'm trying to get a grip on that face being 30 years younger at that time almost than I am now. Fucking hell. You can't put. you can't put Carlos Colon on a list of the top 20 in the continental United States or definitely not in the ring as far as in ring talent. But is there any way possible that we can't as not only the owner of a, what was still a thriving money-making territory,

but as also as the all-time top box office traction in, Puerto Rico and them there are parts of the Caribbean. This is kind of like his culture's version of Hulk Hogan. We can't not check him, can we? I think you could say at a minimum of question mark. Like you said, top star, big crowd, Puerto Rico hadn't died yet, they hadn't murdered anyone yet, like Bruce of Brody. On the other hand, there's, you know, the big daddy thing.

I mean, they were doing ballparks weekly at their hot periods. just insane. So what are you saying? You're saying definitely on the list or question mark? I think he has to be on the list just because of influential personalities. If Vern Gagne was on this list, we'd have to, even though, you know, well, Vern would have been 60 or whatever. You know what I'm saying.

I got you. I got you. for the for the box office record that he had had for the previous 10 years and would continue to have for the next like said like you said three until they three or four till they killed brodie and just the business influence he had I think he's got to go on the list I mean not go I think he's got to go to but jimmy's on the list 33 years old in March someone you would be around the 1984, but you were familiar with them already, from the PYT Express, Norville Austin. And see, that's amazing because, see, I had seen Norville Austin in 1972 on TV here, but he started when he was a teenager and he was one-a-half of the Southern tag team champions with Sputnik Monroe when he was 20, 21, 22 years old.

and they were the first integrated tag team in the South in the Georgia territory. Norville by, if he started in like 1970-ish, 71-ish, by 1975, he'd worked in Florida, he'd worked in Georgia, he'd worked the Goulous territory, which Memphis and the Nashville end at that point,

and been figured in on top. And one of the, Again, a match that stands out to be a TV match that they did in 1976. They wanted, Norville was from Memphis and whatever, they would start using him. They wanted to get him over strong. Lawler had a match with him for like a 10-minute match and made him look like he was goddamn the next heavyweight champion. But then something would always happen where Norville's run wouldn't be that long.

But, no, he was excellent worker, could do the backflip off the top rope and land on his feet in the middle of the ring in the mid-70s. They'd shoot him off quarter to corner and instead of taking the turnbuckle, he'd run up and come off and back flip behind him. And then he hit him with a drop kick or whatever. Entertaining guy, great promo, and by this point. I haven't seen a lot of his promos. He was a great promo? Yeah, well, he was a fun promo. He was a, as they called him, by the way,

the junkyard dog in the Knoxville territory, he had to run in southeastern. The junkyard dog, Norville Austin, that's where I believe that they stole it from for Sylvester Ritter. But he would do, you know, promo, that's right, I'm the junkyard dog. And, you know, blah, blah, blah. So he just, he wasn't a, he wasn't a main event guy in a big territory, but he was an all-around good wrestler and fun promo guy.

And as a heel with Dennis, Condry, and Randy Rose as the original three-man Midnight Express, he'd been working in Alabama and the Memphis territory for 81, 82, and 83. and in 1984 they put him together with Dundee did with Cocoa Ware and made the PYT Express where they dressed up in the Michael Jackson business and unfortunately after the PYT's 84, 85, 86, Norville just kind of he always I think he still lives around Memphis. He always stayed close to home. he was like the dream machine. And I don't remember whatever the fuck else he may have done since then in the rest of the business. Do you?

After 1984, not really. 85? No, not at all. So, you know, he probably doesn't get a check mark is what I'm saying. Well, you know, there is something to be said to Norville or Dream Machine or anyone else wanting to stay close to home. home-cooked meal. Home is where the heart is. Your own bed.

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Check the website is what I would suggest, but... Check that website. They'll tell you the whole whole scoop there. They'll reveal to you what is or isn't part of fun here on the show. What is or never be? Can you read to sit, a minute, sit a way to buy in the sky. Once again, helixleep.com slash JCE. Jim, let's get back to the list of wrestlers in their 30s in 19.

84, 33 in June, Salvatore Balomo. All right, you might be more well-versed in his career than I am, Brian, because he was a mainstay of the WWF programming of what, late 70s through early mid-80s? I would say early 80s through at least early 87, maybe. Okay. I can't tell you the first, much less the last,

Salvatore Belomo match that I've sat down and watched on purpose. He was getting an okay push in like 83, but he was a guy that never won on TV after a certain point. Jim 31 in January, Wayne Ferris. Where was he in his evolution at this point? He was... Was he in Calgary? I'm not sure.

I think he'd got back to, no, he had he been to Alabama and then went to Calgary? Was that the order of which? But basically, Wayne Ferris, the honky talk man, started in the Tennessee territory because he's Jerry Lawler's cousin. He is from West Tennessee. And they started him in, I'm going to say, 1977. He's one of the guys that trained with Herb Welch. and or buddy Fuller out at his farm in Bolivar or whatever.

And Wayne went through umpteen gimmicks. Remember, I think I've showed you that picture because Lawler was a kiss fan. He had, Wayne get a full body stocking Gene Simmons outfit and painted his face up like Gene Simmons and sent him out to wrestle the whole goddamn match with his tongue stuck out. And I've got pictures. I got pictures. The kisser.

And then he did something else. He had a few different. He was a dark-haired young baby face. And then he started paling around with Jimmy Valiant when Jimmy was a baby face, but he bleached his hair blonde, but then Valiant and Wayne both switched heels. He had Valiant was a mate of N heel. Wayne was an underneath heel. And then they, out of necessity,

I think Wayne had gone and was teamed up with Larry Latham, Larry Booker who would become Moondog Spot, they had gone to Florida and they were working underneath for Eddie Graham in 1979 as a underneath heel team. And when Robert Fuller went back to Knoxville and took all the guys that booking move that we talk about so often, Jared had Dundee and Lawler

and Buddy and Ken Wayne and Tommy and Eddie Gilbert and like four other local guys Cocoa Ware, whatever and they brought Wayne and Larry back to Tennessee and put Danny Davis with him as the blonde bombers,

their manager of Sergeant Danny Davis and shot the Tupelo concession stand brawl angle and that's where the bombers and Danny they were a top heel team into territory for almost a year after that. They used them above the freebirds, which is why the free birds left. They used it against the Fargoes and Dundee and all kind of partners that Ricky and Robert Gibson.

So Wayne was a really established Tennessee heel. And then between going to Alabama and like you said, Calgary and bopping back and forth, he started the whole honky-tong wane thing, which actually was more in Calgary because, you know, their perception of people from Tennessee. But by the, by this time, he was, what, two years away from, or not even from starting with Vince? And he was just really putting the honky-talk man thing together.

So I don't know that he gets a check. mark for this particular year, but he was only a short time away from being a big deal. I was like when he was teaming with Larry Latham and he had punk rock on his choice. Like there was anything that had anything to do at punk rock with their tech. Oh, well, no, no, that's a punk rock Wayne Ferris. That was when he switched heel with handsome Jimmy. Handsome Jimmy was, you know, the son of a gypsy rock and roll and Wayne was punk rock. Punk rock wave,

he, punk rock is fucking, I am or the Sprite can sitting here. But it's right around the time the sex pistols came to Memphis. Well, yeah, but that's the thing is that Jimmy,

handsome Jimmy, had all the shit written on the back of his tights, the back of his jacket, like Ernie Ladd would do promises, promises, heart throb,

shit like that. And Jimmy would, on the back of his tights, he sometimes would put the name of the radio station. It was playing his song. Like, you know, 107,

7 Memphis means music or whatever the fuck, right? But that's where that came from also. Jim 34 in May, Moondog Rex, Randy Colley. Well, and let's go both of these next ones, because their partners, it just happens to work that way. And you brought him up before Larry Latham, Moondog Spot, who was 32 years old in June.

Good Lord. that the moon dogs looked like that, and they were only in their early 30s. It's just, again, amazing. Randy Colley, first of all, had been, again, a mainstay in the southern territories for several years. He had teamed up.

He was one of the guys that Jody Hamilton made a second assassin in Georgia, but he had, Also, he and, oh, good Lord, was it he and Don Bass, before it was Don Bass and Roger Smith, he and Donnie Bass had been the black and gold assassins in the Tennessee territory, and he'd worked a variety of places around the South. And Larry Latham, again, had just, Larry Booker was his real name, but he had been a member of the blonde bombers. And it had, with 200, I saw Larry in 1978.

he had he had also been just a regular single heel in the Mid-South territory and in Memphis cards or whatever, but he might have been 225 pounds, still had a little bit of a pot belly, but he might have been 225. And what, seven, eight years later, as one of the moon dogs, he had to be going 300 pounds. But that gimmick made them a lot of fucking money. That was probably the best run that they'd had up to last. point in time and then Randy later on would be one of the original demolition but he'd get screwed out of that so he never actually got that run but uh both of them together in Tennessee and 83 the bloody violent matches with the fabulous ones and then the New York run

where I think they were a bit of the moon dogs were probably a bit of a departure for people who had not seen that type of gimmick in the WWF where even though they didn't do as much blood and guts as they did down south. Well, yeah, it started there. They were managed by Lou Albano and it was Randy Colley and Sailor White. At first, right? And then he was Canadian, had some kind of issues with the border.

Yeah, couldn't get across the border anymore. And that's where they found Larry Latham, who if you really think about it, if you're talking about the WWF and Memphis 83, back to the WWF again after that even the 90s in the USWA Larry Latham ended up kind of becoming the look of the moon dogs yeah well and in 93 and 94

when I used the moon dogs in the Smoky Mountain I called Larry as Larry have you got a partner yeah I got this kid I've been working with and we'll get X dollars a night I'll take care of paying him just give me the money but he just he went out and found big fat guys to be moon dogs. And seriously.

And it was a gimmick that drew in Tennessee for years based on that initial run with the fabs and it was just shocking and whatever. But point being, unfortunately, Larry, he wasn't built to carry that much weight, but because of the gimmick he kept it on and he had a heart attack and died in the ring in the Memphis Mid South Coliseum on one of the legends reunion shows. What was it? like 2006-ish or whatever. He was in a battle royal, and, you know, that was that.

But again, with this loaded talent roster, I don't know if they're check marks, but they were for a period of time in a variety of places, the Moondog thing was over, and then in Tennessee at Stato. Jim, 36 years old in November, high flying, high lion, Greg Gagne. If he's lying, he's flying, and his feet are off the ground.

Again, you know, I can't just blister Greg for not being a good worker because he was. He worked hard and he was a good worker. Would he have gotten that spot if his dad hadn't been Vern Ganya? Probably not because he was still for the time. painfully thin and painfully bland. But on this list, no, we're not going to make him the top 20, but I'm thinking if he'd have started in 1984, then at least by now

he would have made all the action figures that everybody's paid for, right? By himself. To bed that intern powerhouse Hobbs and the Power Town Hobbs. Jim, 30 years old in July, Mani Fernandez. Oh, good Lord. And that's 30 years old for Mani, the bull.

Again, he had the roadmap of Carl's Bad Caverns on his forehead by that point. Manny was a hell of a fucking worker. Oh, yeah. Hell of an in-ring talent. He was athletic. He could go.

He could move for a guy that size who was 250 or 60 pounds or whatever he was. And he could talk because he had a line of bullshit. That was that Manny was a world-class bullshit artist, but he was entertaining in a locker room full of entertaining guys. He stood out. Dusty loved him.

That's why Dusty used him in Florida and the Carolinas and a lot of places. But then Mani got mad because Dusty wouldn't put him on top into Carolinas, which was different than Florida. You know, the field was just too. too crowded and manny was a guy a good guy for an upper an upper i want to say upper mid card a upper card baby face but not the guy or a mid upper card heel but not the heel on a national promotion but in the territory days and especially in florida where there's a Hispanic audience

he was a and had great matches but he was a pretty big deal by 1984 Florida was on the downhill slide, but he was about to have the run in the Carolinas, which would be probably the best two or three years of his life there. He might be a question mark, but I don't know that he's a check. What do you think? I think I would go question mark because I think he had a really good 84, like you said, a fantastic worker. And at this point, he was a baby face.

And Dusty, for a brief period of time before Magnum was, kind of making Mani the number two to him. You know, they would team up, they would do stuff. Yeah. And Mani was over and, you know, I think it's easy to think of Mani Fernandez as a heel, but he was a fantastic in-ring baby face.

And he knew how to get fire and he knew how to get the crowd going. And he could sail. And then he turned heel and he was a completely believable heel. And then after him and Rick Rood left with the belts, I know he worked other places. I think he did some stuff with AWA and various other places, but his career never on a big stage, it was never there ever again, even though he had so much talent.

And he, and at that point, when they left with the belts was what was 80, 70, he would have still only been 30 fucking 33. Oh, well. Well, Jim, at the age of 35 in April, Jerry Blackwell, Crusher Blackwell, maybe I should say. Crusher Blackwell. Get it straight there, Minnaker. It's Crisher for you. I love to watch this guy during his peak, which lasted like three or four years. And he was a fucking freak physical specimen in that he was literally, was he six feet tall or six two?

I don't know. He was 300. Was he? Maybe he wasn't that tall. but the point is he was one of those guys he was as round as he was tall. If he stood next to me, maybe he was a little shorter than me,

but he was also twice as wide. That's why in Knoxville for that one period of time, they did the gimmick where he lost a match and came back under a mask as the Canadian bumblebee. Who's in yellow and black, he looked like a bumblebee. But at the same time as he was,

was round. And I guess what was he, 400 pounds or build it what? 400, whatever. He could do drop kicks. He could take backdrops. He could be monkey flipped. And I remember when he was on the Georgia TBS television, he became kind of a national name amongst wrestling fans.

He's another one of the heels that they brought in to face Lawler. when Lawler came back from the broken leg, Jimmy Hart's trying to find out, bringing all these big names, and everybody got a week, and one week it was Crusher Blackwell. I'm like, yeah, they're standing there.

The referee calls for the bell, and Blackwell jumps up and drop kicks Lawler at the opening bell, and everybody, oh, shit, holy fuck. And it was amazing. And, I mean, he could also, he could do the strong man shit. He knew the tricks driving the,

10-pity nail in the board with a punch or whatever. And they got him on the ABC World Strongest Man Competition one time, I think, in 79, 80, 81, whatever. And that exposed him because he came in like 12th. But he could do the strongman tricks well and do those freakish athletic moves. And they used him as a monster heel. and and what by the time he went to the AWA in what 82ish 83ish 83 is he uh he joined up with um admon O'Kasy and became a chic

yeah iatola Blackwell but point is from the time that people first started he was an underneath guy in in the Georgia territory in 75 76 they started hearing about him a little in 77, he was kind of a deal in the southern territories. I think he went to the Carolinas also, 78, 79, 80, 81. Then he goes to the AWA, which was his biggest profile career run. But after two years there, forgive me if I'm wrong, but he was kind of shot physically and went back and did outlaws in Georgia by 85, 86. and it just, he, he had a real short window, but you couldn't, I think I've heard he had narcolepsy

where he'd just nod off going to sleep, but at 400 pounds, you could imagine. But he couldn't, by the time he got over, he was in his early 30s, and he couldn't move that weight around anymore like he once could. Well, Jim, moving on with the list here, 34 years old in February, Tenru. Well, obviously, when you compiled this list, this was from guys that were being used regularly in the various territories, featured on television, used on the live events. And Tenru at that period of time was one of the guys that would travel with Baba. If there was one of Baba's talent roster that was going to appear in the United States, it was usually him and maybe one of. or two other guys.

As a presence in the United States, nobody really knew him or gave a shit, but at this, he was about to be, you're probably better at Japanese chronology than I am, but about to be one of the major players over there if he wasn't already at this point. Help me out. I was about to explode over there, yeah, because him and Tenru and then him and Hara formed the revolution,

and that horror leaves, and then Tenru's, like one of the top guys in all Japan, and then he leaves to go to war, or, you know, someone puts up all this money. Not even war, SWS first. Yeah, that's right.

Oh, what was his name? It was at Japanese optical company, the multimillionaire owner, was it Hadaki, Todaki? What is? Super World Sports, SWS,

and they paid him Tenoru, a record amount of money to be there. That was in like 88, 89. No, no, no. No, no, that's, I think 90 because... 90. That resulted in Masawa getting his big break.

Even though he had already been Tiger Masked, he beat Jumbo Saruta, and he took off the mask and became Masawa, which wouldn't have happened if Tenru hadn't have jumped, probably. So it led the things. Do you remember when he would first come to America? It was Tenru Shemada. That was the name they called him. well and he spent some time early on when he first broke in in west texas didn't he like seruda did and like because of the funks being there they would they would send guys so he was on in the 70s on you know american cards but is this the carlos cologne rule even though he was a non presence in the united states because he was so big where he was big he gets a check i don't know if that's a good or is he that bad is he that

big yet. Yeah, I don't know. Again, he's on the list because he was active and he was a top star and he was pushed well, but I don't know if he's on the list for 84. Again, there's a lot of competition here, and here's another name. 33 years old in March, he would win the AWA World Championship. Jumbo Saruta. I think this, he's got to be on the list, doesn't he, or a checkmark on this list, because he was even bigger as far as, Bobo was concerned than Teneru was, and Jumbo had already been, Baba's second in command kind of secondary baby face for several years at this point, and is a legendary name.

Does he not get the check on the Carlos Colon rule? He couldn't get arrested in Des Moines, but he was a national idol over there. But again, Jumbo wins the AWA championship. So if there was ever a year where he was being used technically as a top guy in the States, although it was a brief period of time and he didn't really come over, I mean, Jumbo Saruta, there's many years where you could say he was one of the top guys in the ring, and 84 is just another one of them. So I think it's not crazy to put him on the list.

Well, and also somebody's going to say, well, how is he, he couldn't get arrested in the United States, but they put the AWA title on him. and Baba had realized that he wasn't going to ever be able to get the NWA belt as he had for himself in what, 74 with Briscoe, and then again, later, he wasn't going to be able to get it for Jumbo, but he could get, it's the same thing as when Otto Vons, who could literally go to the Mall of America, and kids would have tried to pin a tail on him,

thinking he was a fucking cartoon donkey got the AWA title because he had a deep pocket and paid Vern the booking fee necessary. They were doing, Vern was trying to open up a deal with Baba

in Japan since Vince had the at that point had Inoki locked up right and so that's suddenly Jumbo Serruda is the AWA champion.

Jim, 30 years old in October, Hector Guerrero. I loved Hector Guerrero. He got over with me when I first saw him come to Tennessee in 79. I think I mentioned this the other day. He could do all the lucha stuff that he could do, but he could do it to foil the heels and confuse the heels and do it around the heels.

and he was the one doing all the flashy moves. It's not like that he had American guys breaking out doing his shit with him. He was able to get over by being the one that was doing it. And the Guerrero family has always been great workers, and they've always known how to do their lucha roots, but at the same time work with Americans. So it's not just an abominable style, clash. And obviously this field is crowded. I'm not saying Hector was a top guy deserving

of a checkmark with along with Savage and Hogan and Flair and blah, blah, blah. But at this point, Hector had been working for easily 10 years and had been featured in a variety of places and was excellent and I enjoyed he ended up settling in East Tennessee and that's why he worked for me early on in Smoky Mount Wrestling and just you know

easy as pie to work with and just friendly as all get out but doesn't get a check Jim 35 years old in May of 84 Ciencarus Brian help me he had a good

year for a CMLO, I believe, but not anything that would be on your radar, so I think we can move on from there. But the next one's a name that, if you want to talk about who is the biggest luchador worldwide in the early 80s, this may be the name. 32 years old in June, El Kineck. And El Kinek is the answer, one of the answers to the trivia question of who's gotten a win over Andre, correct? I believe so. Body slammed him, yeah. Body slammed him and also

Kineck and I can't do a chapter and verse and somebody out there is going to condemn me for that. But at one point in Mexico Kinek was the top star for the UWA promotion that was running the El Torrio Bullring

or whatever it was called. and doing record business and bringing in, you know, American stars, international stars, and Kineck was all was, I can't quote, height and weight right now. You might can Google it by the time I finish fucking meandering on here, but he had a bodybuilder look like Mosquirus. He wasn't a small guy,

but yet he could also do the lucha business. And as, as we, said he's one of the guys to get a win over Andre that obviously was never publicized outside of Mexico but at the time he was on top their outdoor bullring shows were doing in excess of 20,000 fucking people and Uncle Dave has talked a lot about Mystico and how hot CML is today this was 50 years ago 45 years ago and Kineck was the guy. They were doing,

maybe not same business, but they were drawing people hand over fucking fist, a very hot period for not the established group, but the UWA group. Again, big star worldwide? Is this the Carlos Kloan rule? I think so. He's got to be.

I think so. So let me put him on the list. L Kineck. And again, this is an era before AAA, so I feel like a lot of modern Lucha fans may not realize there was another company that ran against CMLL,

and El-Connect was for a time such a big worldwide star. Jim, I'm going to skip Sangre Chicana, who turned 33 in November, had a good year, turning 35 in November, dirty Dutch Mantel. And again, Dutch is a kind of guy. I've known him since I first met him in 1976. but because of the beard and the hair and the hairy body you never imagined him as being young

but Dutch had God, he broke in as Wayne Cowan, what, 1972. I would say he was only right after he got out of the service, so he's 22 years old, whatever. And he had worked as Wayne Cowan. He was Dutch Bass. He was a member of the Bass Brothers with Don Bass, and he managed it one time by Maul Bass. He was Chris Gallagher. He, Dutch Mantel and John Foley in 1974, 75 were the first heel tag team

that Ron Fuller put the Tennessee tag team title on, as I believe, when he started running South, southeastern in Knoxville. but really between underneath in Georgia, Florida, and Tennessee for several years, by the time that 1980-ish rolled around, Dutch really had an incredible run in the Memphis territory.

He and Austin Idol were the World Tag Team champions when he was a heel. Then they switched him baby face and he turned on Masafuchi and Mr. Oneida and cut the promo about he laid in that rat infested jungle in Vietnam for 11 months and 27 days, and he wasn't about to see these son of a guns

because they had desecrated the American flag or whatever. And Dutch between 81, 82, 83, really 84, he got over as a baby face in the Tennessee territory as strong as anybody but and into some day including Jerry Lawler, Bill Dundee and Jimmy Valiant. That was the, the metric is if you could get over as strong as Lawler, Dundee, or Valiant at any given time, you were a made babyface in Tennessee and he did it to the point where when he and Lawler had the only baby face program I remember in the history of Tennessee

wrestling ever being good. or draw on any money. They had a Southern title program where they were both baby faces and they both stayed themselves and they both made it work. And it was 60, 40, 4 Lawler in Memphis

and 50, 50 in Louisville and 70, 30 for Dutch in Nashville. And it was, you know, so Dutch was an incredible worker. His promos were good when he was motivated. That was the period of time that he picked up the promos. I don't know again with this company that he gets a checkmark, but he'd come off a

very successful run and unfortunately was going to be successful for a few more years in Memphis. The whole territory just went down and he ended up being a Kansas Jayhawk for a while with Bobby Jaggers underneath for Crockett. Well, Jim, we will return to this list again in a second, but you have mentioned so many wrestlers here who understood what makes things work in the ring. Someone needs to sell. It has to be someone selling.

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You mean they'll just give it to you? That's exactly what I mean. That's what I mean, yes. Well, then you're going to get your little purple button. And it's going to get flicked and punched and prodded all over the place. Jim, let's get back to the great deal for new customers, a great deal for the listeners. You know how people like having their purple button flicked. It's time to turn those what-ifs into money right now with Shopify today.

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You know what that music means? There's still more action. There's still more to come. A quick programming note, I know we said we were going to talk about retro figures today, but this has been fun and has gone long. So next time on the drive-thru, we will get you caught up with that,

although I will say this latuni, Antonio Inoki, is my new favorite thing on my desk. Does it speak? It doesn't, but it has the red towel, and you can move his hand, actually, for an LJN. That's, I don't know how that would work, but it works pretty cool. Why don't you move his hand over and keep going on this list? We're on. All right, let's get back to this list, Mr. Courtesy over there.

Jim, wow, I don't realize it was this old, actually. Jim, at the age of 36 in January, Bobby Jaggers. and we just talked about him being partners with Dutch Mantell as the Kansas Jayhawks. Bobby Jaggers at this point was on the downhill trajectory of his career. He had been used better probably in the late 70s and through the early 80s. He was being in Southwest wrestling outlaw Bobby Jaggers. He had worked the Southern Territories. he was actually one of the first mass teams that I saw in the Tennessee territory

when I started going to the matches live. He was Bobby Main at that point because he had been using the name Bobby Main, I think because he looked when he was young, early in his career, Moondog Maine was a thing, right? So then he and Charlie Fulton were a masked team. They were the mighty Yankees. And then Frank Morel, poor Frank, ended up in that some kind of way, where he was partners with Charlie Fulton, and Charlie Fulton became Charles Fulton Morell.

Point being, Bobby Jaggers had already been working like 10, 12 years and had done a cowboy thing. shades of dusty with the blonde hair and the bull rope. He had never really gotten to the top of anything major, but he was a recognized name. But by this point, the territories were shrinking up, and Jaggers into Ray, he was, he was a loud promo because he was another one of those guys.

Like, man, he had a great line of bullshit. But he, at this point, he wasn't going too much farther. Jim also turning 36 in 1984 in December. Ron Bass. Ron Bass was a great talent, too, in the late 70s, early 80s. Dusty liked him, used him in Florida, used him in the Carolinas with Black Bart. Dusty had a fondness for cowboy gimmicks, but Ron had started. Remember I said Dutch Mantell at one time had been Dutch Bass?

Ron and Don Bass Don Bass Don Bass was from I don't know if he's from West Memphis Arkansas but that area of Arkansas and had worked the Tennessee territories and down south quite some time. Early in his career

Ron and Don were managed by Maul Bass who was May Weston one of the old time Mildred Burke girl wrestlers and she had so much heat in those small towns in Arkansas, Mississippi, whatever they got shot at

fucking knives pulled on them and maul bass had the fucking purse with the brick in it but she carried her own handgun in the fucking thing and she would fight the marks like the guys did so again the problem is by 1984 Ron was going to be around for a while longer but he wasn't going to be featured near the top of the cards in territories and in Memphis he'd been Southern champion, it was going to be more of the gimmick in the middle card, and he got a little brief run late 80s with Vince, didn't he, but not featured particularly. He had an okay run as a mid-card heel, upper mid-card. He had a feudal Brutus Beefcake, when Beefcake was getting a good push that resulted in him losing a hair versus hair match and getting his head shaved. And he was gone by the beginning of 89, I think. So, yeah. Probably made more money on that run than he made being in the main events

everywhere else 10 years earlier. Well, Jim, another name you just brought up, 36 in January, Black Bart. And Bard just passed away here not long ago, and we talked about it. So I won't go into it again. But Bart was another guy. He was a great territory. He'll big and loud and. and boisterous and could work and move his size around,

but he wasn't going to be the main event guy, particularly in any major territory or anything national, and we've got guys on this list, you know, with the Flair and Savage and Hogan and Andre, so we love Bart, but not here. Jim, 33 years old in August, Mr. Electricity, Steve Riegel. Boy, we just heard about Steve. Steve passing away, even though it happened several months ago, we heard about it recently,

and we went through his whole career then. He was really, at this point, about to have the best run he'd had in the AWA with Jimmy Garvin, the tag team champions, beating the road warriors. But he'd been in the business at this point for about 10 years and was already good in-ring talent. Again, he can't really hold up as a top 20 on this list because of the size of it, but another tremendous, you know, talent. Jim 36 in August, Canadian strongman, Dino Bravo. Dino Bravo. Not only, I mean, most people now will, if they remember him, will remember

the run in the WWF and the blonde hair and the strongman thing, but Dino Bravo had been a major fucking superstar in the Montreal territory when it was a big thing and they were selling out the forum in the 70s. And, you know, he had been a recognized name at that point for what, close to 10 years in the business. So without going into his entire biography on this list, is there any besides Brett Hart, I'm trying to go back and think, who would have been a bigger star in Canada than Dino Bravo that we've covered on this list,

unless it's like an Andre or just a icon. You know what I'm saying. Not that many. Does he not the greatest in-ring performer ever, most exciting, I should say. Oh, no, not at this point, not at this point or anything after this point. Earlier in his career, he did. Not at this point or anything after.

He really could move earlier in his career. He was in good, shape and he can move, but, you know, again, that was a guy in his 20s. This is a guy in his late 30s. Yeah, so at this time, probably not. Jim, 31 years old in July, Steve O. Steve O'Sinowski, who was from Minnesota, started in the AWA, actually went to Georgia and got over as a baby face in

what 81, 82, and then unfortunately got, what the fuck was it? A hand injury and some kind of infection had to have an operation surgery on it, whatever. He came to Memphis in early 83. I worked when I was a manager, I worked some programs against him. He was a baby face. But during the time off that he had with the injury, they had used him on commentary. with Gordon Solie.

So they tried to use him in Memphis with Lance a little bit, the same thing in interviewing guys as a way to introduce him as a baby face. He was a good looking guy, snazzy in the ring kind of, but never used as a main event attraction. And most of the time that he was used in any manner in his career was the AWA except for that run in Georgia. And then he got out. And I don't,

what have we heard about Steve Olsenowski in the last 40 years? Haven't heard too much and it may have been around this time because I don't remember anything about him after 1984. Maybe he got in the action figure business with Greg Gagne.

Let's hope not. Jim 36 in November. Here's another name that for a while was all over the card and then you'd never heard about it again. Buzz Tyler. And I never even met Buzz Tyler, but I'm like you. I remember the name.

And for a few years there, Central States, I think Dusty. Yeah, Mid-Atlantic. Liked him. Yeah. Yeah, and used him. And then he was gone. Certainly not on the list. Jim, 34 years old in June.

I didn't realize he was that old. Wow. Iceman King Parsons. he's having a run of his life right then, isn't he? He's in the middle of it, yeah. Because Iceman King Parsons was a guy that had been used in various places, on the card, not necessarily a main event attraction, and then remember he was supposed to be one of the Bruce Brothers with pork shop cash.

And I was already in business. I was in the Channel 5 locker room that morning. when Jimmy Hart was supposed to have the Bruce Brothers. Well, pork chops there, where's King Parsons? Somebody said, wait, think he went to Texas. That's when they found out somehow that he had taken a spot working for Fritz in world class instead of coming for the tag team in Memphis. And so they had the Bruce Brothers jackets,

and they Lawler told Jimmy Hart said, go out in the parking lot and see if that fucking jacket fits. it's Mad Dog Boyd, because Mad Dog was hanging around all the time trying to get booked. And they needed a black guy. So see if the jacket fits him. And meanwhile, King Parsons, incredibly enough, goes to Dallas and becomes the hottest baby face in the territory, not named Von Erick. And the only ice song they had was cold as ice foreigner, right? So here's this black guy with dreadlocks coming out to a rock band song from fucking six years beforehand or whatever.

Oh, no, that's not the theme song I think of with the Iceman. What, which one? Because I remember that one. What else did they do? Oh, no, no, no. First of all, one of the coolest names ever, Iceman King Parsons. I couldn't even fathom it when I was a kid. I was like, what exactly is a kid?

What is it? Yeah. And also, he hadn't been. ice man anywhere else. They just came up with this gimmick and suddenly it hit. But what was the music? Sister Sledge, we are family. That's right. That's right. They did the cold as ice early and then they changed it probably because he said, what the fuck this sucks. That's one of my favorite, like, in my head, if I want to, like, have a warm image of world class, it's that song hitting and him like bopping to the ring while everyone goes crazy. The song was like six years older any by that

point. Didn't matter. Didn't matter. It didn't matter. It didn't matter. I spent Big Bar. since made it work. But that was the thing. So that was spring 83. He went down there. So for the next, what, year, year and a half, again, he was figured into a lot of shit and was the most popular gal on the card that wasn't a Von Eric.

And then, along with Chris Adams. Yeah, he was pretty good. He was more over than Chris Adams, though, I think, at one point. Just made people happy. And they used them really well. And, you know, when he turned heel eventually, against Chris Adams actually in the UWS. They're calling him a jailbird and pointing out that he

been to jail. It was such an interesting way to make him a baby face, Chris Adams. But, uh... He's... He rotted away in prison a no good son of a bitch. I don't know if he would be... I don't know if he would be my top guys in their 30s for 84 Iceman Parsons, but...

Notwithstanding a big star of 84. That was probably his best year. Because then after that, he just stayed kind of as Texas fell apart, that's the place he was getting booked. That's one of the only guys, I think, after Y.D, if Watts was intent on having an African-American

superstars as top guy, why didn't he do now that I'm saying, why the fuck? I wonder. He went with Master G, George Wells. Oh, that was brutal too. Oh, boy, we were just waiting for him to goddamn get the boot.

No, and that's a thing. Not only was he rotten in the ring and he got the spot George Wells, I'm talking about, because he'd been over in California years before and I don't know how they even found him. He hadn't been in the mainstream of the business, but they tried to give him the master, you know, Master G rapper type tag.

He came to the territory, brought his wife into car, they drove themselves to every show he didn't really associate with the boys, and you didn't sometimes know where the fuck he had gone. You know, after the show was over and the next day, where's George Wells? Anybody seen him? And he'd come in, and it just, it wasn't working in the match.

Oh, boy. Because it was right after YD left, too, even if, you know, he had been a great wrestler and he had gotten along with everyone. It was right after Y, D. And he just shows up on TV, like, who are you? he was like, I'm Master G. Because obviously the name in the rap song, Rappers Delight, this must be him.

It's the real one. It's the real Master G. All right, so Iceman Parsons. Yeah, they couldn't have got him over if they'd have shot a fucking tube of helium up his ass. Jim 32 in May. Scott Irwin. Boy, I tell you, at the Super Destroyer,

he was a big deal on Atlanta TV, and he was the guy who, if he didn't invent it, he popularized it, the superplex. Only instead of everybody fucking standing on the top rope, trying to help each other balance for 10 minutes and then doing it, he figured out a way where you could do it. If it was a job guy, he would set the guy on the turnbuckle, stand up on a second rope and give him the move.

If it was a top guy, the top guy would be climbing up to the top. to come off and he'd catch him, boom, and crotch him and do it. And it looked plausible. And what a fucking bump it was. But Scott Irwin was well over six feet tall and 250 fucking pounds. And as one of the long riders, his brother Bill Irwin, and I just found some pictures. I took a Bill Irwin when he came in the Tennessee in 1980.

God damn, his big kicks and his leaping ability and the elbow drops, he'd get six feet off the ground. And he was a big guy, 6-3 or whatever in 240. And together as the team, either the long riders, the Irwin's or, you know, with the hoods or whatever, they were good talents.

But Super D was a big deal. And then, when was it? Scott Irwin got sick because he ended up dying of cancer at a young age, right? A couple years after this maybe. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean, the territories were falling apart, but if I always thought Bill Irwin should have gone farther,

but Scott was better than Bill. Jim, 32 years old in November, George Wengroff. My friend Chad Keeney's favorite wrestler, you know, Chad, the world's finest blind vendor. George Wyngroff was Saul Wyngroff's son. And he wrestled amateur in school, was not an Olympic champion or anything, but was legally blind. He could see, but not, obviously not well.

And he basically, he worked Tennessee because of Saul's name, although that hurt him when Jerry Jarrett took over because Jared and Saul had been on the outs for so long. and he worked underneath. He was down there in Louisiana when we were there, worked with ICW and the Pafos for some time, but was never featured on top anywhere. And a very nice guy, though, but never featured or, you know, had a chance to really break out and make a big deal.

Okay, Jim, a few more names here. 33 years old in September. Mike Graham and Mike Graham is another guy that everybody thinks oh nepotism and it was only because of his father and I don't think Mike did himself

any favors during his run as an agent in WCW in the 90s but Mike Graham was a hell of a worker was a top star in Florida and believe me and Eddie Graham might have pushed him because he was his son, but he didn't put him in the main events for fucking, what, 10 years straight because he wasn't drawing.

And whether it's Mike Graham and Kevin Sullivan, Mike Graham and Steve Kern, they were top baby face tag teams because Mike was a member of the Graham family. You could get extra heat on him with the fans. As I said, he not only was a hard worker, but vertically challenged. But remember in the 70s when he first started, he and Kevin Sullivan were, built similarly in that they were both, even though they were 5-7 or whatever, they were 2.30 and power lifters. So they were strong as bulls. Remember, that's how Austin Idol broke in. He was powerlifting friends with Mike Graham. Yeah. And that's why when,

Mike Graham is the one that Sid came in at the hotel bar in Atlanta when they'd had words, Sid left and came back with a squeegee and got to fucking, they called him Squeegeezy sit after that, going to beat somebody up. And Mike, Graham, little 5'0.995-pound Mike Graham took the squeegee away from him, told him get to fuck out of there. You know, it's interesting. You said that he didn't do himself any favors as an agent. I think in terms of the way people think of him, the perception, he didn't do any favors for himself in the way he came across in a lot of interviews. where, you know, this person never drew a dime, this person didn't know anything, he's the genius. Yeah.

And it takes away from the fact that actually he was a good wrestler, and he kind of did have some good idea. He wasn't an idiot when he came to wrestling. And a lot of people think he is because of the way he conducted himself in those interviews. And it had to be hard because you're a member of the, one of the most powerful families, the son of one of the most powerful guys in wrestling and the guy who's recognized as a genius,

and you work exceptionally hard all of those years to live up to that, but now you're in the 90s, all these fucking soft-ass motherfuckers on guaranteed contracts and probably, yeah, he was like, ah, fuck. Nothing like that battle bowl watching him work with Juschen Liger. But Jim, a few more names here, 33 in July, Skip Young.

Skip Young, sweet brown sugar in the Florida territory and probably a few other places. Wonderful middle card, upper mid card baby face, athletic, the drop kick. Was it Dusty that gave him the sweet brown sugar gimmick or he got it in Florida because he was just a little bland without it? And the mast helped because he had that lazy eye or whatever.

But, excellent performer, but I don't think any threat to some of the people on this list. 37 in December, Killer Tim Brooks. Killer Brooks, baby.

In the 70s, especially in the Sheeks territory, Killer Brooks looked fucking like somebody you didn't want to fuck with. He was just a big potterman. bellied, hairy fucking guy, but he was a gimmick heel in those days where it worked, and he could be, actually, he could be a character baby face,

which he was at some points, or he could be the kind of guy that was a heel in the Sheeks territory where he was enough of a wrestler to work with the other guys, but he could do all the blood and the fucking crazy shit, you know, as well. again, the 80s were not his decade. That would have been the 70s. By the 80s, what was Killer Brooks doing at that point? He probably, he ended up somewhere around Texas because he was from there.

He was from there. But, you know, that's one of those things where, you know, I hear the way you're talking about him. I only got to see Killer Tim Brooks. I first got to see him in the early 90s and then I got to see as far back as the mid-80. So I don't get it. And I hear some of the other wrestlers that worked with him. I rave about him. Like Roddy Piper, I think, is like raved about him.

You know, different people, I never have seen it. And I don't know that it's because I went backwards and I saw him at the very end where, you know, it just looked kind of ridiculous. Well, even in the 80s, because now you're talking about a fat guy that's never been to the gym or taken care of himself and he's 40 years old. old. But in the 30s, with the face and the promo and the growly voice and the cigar stuck in his mouth and the hairy body and the chain he'd carry around.

Is he a motorcycle gimmick sometime? We're not kind of sure. Or he's come in to take a top baby face out of a bounty that the top manager has put out or whatever. This guy, he looks like somebody would take money to fuck somebody up. And that's what, and he could still bump around and move around because he was 30 years old, but not when he's 40. Well, Jim, closing in on 40, 39 years old in January, Buck Robly. Colonel Buckley, Christopher George Robly, the 3rd, don't call me yellow.

He is a fascinating son of a bitch. Man, that's one of the first great T-shirts in wrestling history. don't call me yellow this guy and I'd like to know more about his early life and how he really got started and trained and who mentored him or whatever

but he was able to main event the Superdome while looking like complete dog shit and draw he was never even thought of for getting a job in the AWA or the

WWF or whatever, but they, the southern promoters and especially McGirk and even Watts, they would hire him to be their booker and to work on top whether he was a heel at some points or then when he became a gimmick baby face. He could talk and he had a really deep James Earl Jones voice. But he looked just like the average fucking. and middle-aged redneck that you would see wandering around the Mid-South territory. And he was, the boys as a booker, the boys loved him. Bruiser Brody didn't want to work for anybody else, but he got a reputation as a booker for being for the boys,

and he'd take up for the boys against the promoters, which is why he was never the booker for very long at any given point anywhere. But again, in the territories that he worked, the Louisiana, Mississippi, Texas, Oklahoma, that section, and occasionally over in Georgia, whatever, he could talk himself over, and people would overlook what he looked like, and he could work psychologically.

So even though his shit may not look world class, it was the right thing at the right time. And he knew how to get heat, do angles and shit. So a very, again, he's the guy that did the NWF in 1991 in New Orleans. I flew in to do that TV taping for him, where he had found the Elvis impersonator at the racetrack that had money and owned a car lot or whatever the fuck else. And he was doing that promotion on television.

by using his angel, the Elvis impersonator, as a heel manager. So I went in and sold the contracts of somebody to fucking Elvis, whatever. But that lasted about three months, his promotion there. Buck Robly is a goddamn anomaly. You can't put a checkmark or you can't put anything next to his name. He stands all by himself. He is a fascinating character. You know, you said that he'd be in the middle of all these things.

things when everyone talks about the angle where J. Y.D. was blinded. Buck Robly was the one in the middle of that whole thing. Yes. He was the Booker at the time. And, you know, Watts probably used him best, and they would make little references to him enjoying the racetrack on commentary sometimes. Well, and that's the thing is, before videotape, when I was getting the the Mid-South pro, the early programs from the Superdome, and you see the picture of this, this guy is in the main event at the Superdome, and you see the picture of him with no context, never haven't seen him, never haven't heard of him

or heard him talk or don't know what they've done. It was just like, what the fuck is going on down there? We've got all these fucking tremendous looking athletic specimens in Tennessee, and we ain't drawing 30,000 fucking people.

I wasn't smart to the business yet enough to know about Watts and his mind and what he was doing with Louisiana and how the fuck Buck Robly played into things. When I was 13 years old, I got my first tape of Southwest Championship Wrestling. And it was that period of time where they had both commentators English and Spanish next to each other.

And it was like Dick Slater, Wahoo. I mean, it was a great crew they had. And Buck Robly. And I couldn't get it. Again, I'm 13. I've been watching WWF and watching WCW. Hadn't even seen Smoky Mountain yet. And here's this guy.

in a yellow shirt that says don't call me yellow and he's got like a cast or something on his arm and he's going bald. Oh yeah, the brace on the right lower arm. He was gimmick to the max, loaded boots, everything. Go ahead. I just didn't get it. And again, it was one of those guys I'm seeing on this tape. I never saw him anywhere after that point. I'm like, I never saw him in WWF. I never saw him on TBS. I never saw him anywhere. But, you know, once you get it, you get it. And there's something captivating.

him in Mid-South in 82, 83, it was kind of awesome. He was kind of, and then he was gone, and then he never returned ever again. And see, sometimes he would go in and take a job booking, especially if a territory was down,

you know, and because a lot of times the promoters didn't want to call him unless they had to. But they would call him to come in a book and he'd bring in Brody, or sometimes they would call him to book specifically

because they knew he could talk Brody into coming in. Anyway. Our final name here today, and we will revisit all of this next time and put together a final list. Jim 33 in September, Jerry Stubbs.

Jerry Stubbs is a name that probably the majority of the audience today will go, who? What the fuck? But again, an underrated talent because of the fact that his best years in Louisiana and Mid-South wrestling and in Alabama and in Georgia

were mostly before, right before, videotape. But you'd know him better as Mr. Olympia because he used Mr. Olympia in Mid-South and in Continental Wrestling in Alabama and some in East Tennessee, where it was like the Patriots. gimmick.

Except Del Wilkes was a really good looking guy under the mask, but the Mr. Olympia was the shiny, colorful mask and the gold spangly tights and everything. And he had a bodybuilder's physique. And he looked great. And he could jump up and do the pinpoint drop kicks, two feet on the guy's head without knocking his head off. And he was big enough to do the power stuff,

but he could really move around and was exciting and had a fired up old Southern style promo. The problem was twofold. Number one, when you took the mask off of Mr. Olympia and it was Jerry Stubbs, he was bald and looked like every used car dealer in Warburg, Tennessee, facially. And he looked older than what he was. And the other problem was when he had the goddamn mask on, because Dennis Condry spent a lot of time in Alabama,

you know, on the cards with him, right? They used to call him pee head. Because when you put the mask on, the fact that he didn't have any hair and his body was so big, especially his upper body, when you put the mask on it, compressed what his ears in,

and he looked like his head was a pee on top of his body. But for what three or four years there, you could see Mr. Olympia being a goddamn star baby face in almost any place in the country. And it just, he never left the South. Maybe he didn't want to, didn't try. But with his work and that body, I don't know why he wouldn't have been able to go anywhere

he wanted to go. Great running Mid-South is a baby face. Team Blue J-Y-D. Then they turn him heel. Then he's gone. And he had one of the better physiques and wrestling at that point in time. And he could move. I mean, he was one of the highlights of Mid-South wrestling when he was there.

but not on the list for 84. And Jim, that wraps up our list of wrestlers in their 30s in 1984. Any final thoughts? Just we're going to have to come back, as you said, and reconvene, circle back, as they say, and put up a, or put together a list of the 20 best, but it's going to be tough with these names on this thing.

That's right, and Swami's going crazy at the Amazon guy who decided to come now. And after that, Jim, we're going to talk about the wrestlers in their 40s in 1984, and that's a very interesting list as well. And which is also still a pretty lengthy list of, again, Hall of Fame-level names in a lot of cases that were still active regularly in their 40s in the year 1984. Well, we will break it down in the future, but until then, the drive-through is closed.

Oh, no. What the... Oh! Oh, man. Right. That was the worst flub I've had, ladies and gentlemen. Sounds like that cat gut needs replaced. Find a new cat with better guts.

I'd like to apologize to all my fans for ruining the song today. It'll be better next time. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll be back next time on the Jim Cornett experience in a few days, and of course next week, right back here on the drive-thru. Go through the archive. Patreon.com slash cornet. $5 a month get you access to the archive going back to 2013. patreon.com slash cornet.

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