Jim Cornette’s Drive-Thru - Episode 442

Episode Date: May 9, 2026

This week on the Drive Thru, Jim talks about the passing of Ted Turner, WWE releasing the New Day & The MFTs, retro wrestling figures, The Zebra Kid, and much more! Plus Jim previews WWE Backlash and plays Guess The Program! Thanks to our episode sponsors: HELIX:  Go to helixsleep.com/jce for 27% off sitewide during their Memorial Day sale exclusive for our listeners!  SHOPIFY:  Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial and start selling today at shopify.com/jce RAYCON:  The Essential Open Earbuds are the perfect addition to your everyday routine. Go to buyraycon.com/jceOPEN to get 15% off FACTOR:  Head to factormeals.com/jce50off and use code jce50off to get 50% off and free daily greens per box, with new subscription only. Send in your question for the Drive-Thru to: [e-mail]  Follow Jim and Brian on Twitter: @TheJimCornette @GreatBrianLast Merch! https://arcadianvanguard.com/ Join Jim Cornette's College Of Wrestling Knowledge on Patreon to access the archives & more! https://www.patreon.com/Cornette Subscribe to the Official Jim Cornette channel on YouTube! http://www.youtube.com/c/OfficialJimCornette Visit Jim's official site at www.JimCornette.com for merch, live dates, commentaries and more! You can listen to Brian on the 6:05 Superpodcast at 605pod.com or wherever you find your favorite podcasts!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The ending could have been better. Hello again, friends, and you are our friends, and welcome back to another edition of Jim Cornett's drive-through where we're trying not to yell. I'm your host, the great Brian Last. We're going to have a lot of fun today, and somehow we'll get there with this man, the leader of the cult of Cornett, Mr. Jim Cornett.

You know, Brian Last, here, I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I didn't want to have to do this in public, but we're going to go ahead and we're going to exercise a three-month clause in your contract. We're going to renegotiate that. What we're going to do is we're going to pay you all of the money that we said we'd pay you if you'll stop playing at Oregon,

or you can have half the money that we said we'd give you if you'll just keep on playing at Oregon. One or the other. Will I retain my music publishing rights? Oh, yeah, the publishing. Because that's where the money is. It's in the songwriting. It's not just in the music.

Look you here. If you publish that, it would be labeled pornography. You can have the publishing, you can have the polishing, the tarnishing, the astonishing, you can have all of it, of that, and more. Keep it all. I feel like I keep having to remind you, it's a growing audience every day, another new ear. No, it's a groaning audience. You've mispronounced that word because of your New Jersey accent.

Another ear drum is unlocked every single day to the delectable sounds. disseminate from the Arcadian Vanguard organ. But again, this is a great day. It's going to be a fun show. It's 80 degrees outside. It's hot. It's so hot there's a gardener somewhere, but it ain't mine. Where the fuck are you?

I'm a shiver. It's in the 60s. It's windy, and it's going about to be rainy. That's my weather. So happy and rainy here today. But nevertheless, at least we don't have to worry about somebody calling us over the next three or four hours and saying, hey, remember how much I said I was going to pay you?

I want you to do the same thing, but we're going to pay you half. How about that deal, Ron? It sounds like a good deal to me. Again, I think you're going to have. I'm just prefacing some of the things we're going to talk about on this program. I think you may have to speak to my agent, Nick Lopico. Nick Lipp. I, was that, is there a video?

of him happening on the internet right now. I saw it on Twitter. I guess the only thing I'm on. A video of him happening? I don't know what you're talking about. Well, it's currently happening now on Twitter where apparently he was, if this is indeed Nick Piccolo,

he was doing somebody's call-in show, but he's got his phone in his hand and he's, it looks like he's running around through darkened rooms with the close-up of his, face. I'm doing. Type in right now. Google in.

I don't know what you'd Google. You're a Googler. What do you Google in? Nick Piccolo video on Twitter or on podcast. He's done something lately? I don't know. I could probably get a quicker answer just opening the window and screaming.

Apparently his Twitter account no longer exists. Oh. Oh, no. It's back. Here it is. I don't know. What just happened. And it's gone.

What are you, what? Well, that was what happened. Twitter said this page cannot be found and then I refreshed a page and here it is. I see him posting a lot of things about the thing we talked about the other day, his tweet about the impending loss of television rights for AEW. If that made any sense, I'd not see anything here. Loss of television exposure for a potentially for AEW is what his story was. they're not going to take them after next year and poor Tony'd be up shit creek without a paddle

is what his story was. But we were at the time saying also that this gentleman is prone to go on some tangents and present them in somewhat of a bizarre fashion, even though he seems to at one point in his life at least have represented, recognized people and known some things. and what might be happening to cause him to to present his presentation of himself the way he is presenting it speculation runs rampant

but have you found anything recent I know I saw this I have not found anything of him running around in the dark I have not I'm just telling you know what you saw but it sounds great well it was like some guy interviewing this guy but he's got this phone and he's just walking around but it's really dark and you can't see what's fuck's going on and it's very herky jerky.

Somebody needs to we need to get somebody on the piccolo beat. Herky jerky, of course, was the original team name for Hercules and Paul Roma. They went with power and glory. No, I kid, I kid. We'll see what more we can find out.

Hey, Jim. Yes. Let me grab this. Real quick, we'll do this at the top. I had something else. Well, don't act like that on the air. Let me grab this. You know, do it quietly under the table like most podcasts. Excuse me, while I whip this out. Jim, I have here something I was going to file away.

I just got it. I'd seen this for years and I finally got it. It's a copy of the National Police Gazette. America's first pictorial established 1845, 25 cents June. I'm not exactly sure what year doesn't have it on here. Here are the three headline stories on the front of year. Oh, well, now, hold on now. Is this a really vintage piece?

I mean, you're giving the 1845 to now to go on, but the Police Gazette was a historic publication that ran for obviously years and years, but was big in boxing and wrestling. And they even in the early days had police Gazette belts for some of the champions. That's right. Well, this one I think is.

But you don't have any idea of what year this is from, even the era of the... I have the idea of the error. I can open it up probably and find out the exact year. It's probably early... Well, don't put yourself out. Oh, my God. You're a pain of the ass today.

Hold on. Open this. Oh, it's bag. Oh, it's bagged. Okay. Because of gin cornets. It's bagged and he didn't want to is it one of those resellable

bags or have you wasted two inches of Scotch tape? June 59. Okay, well, it's of recent vintage. To me, that's just like yesterday. I hate resellable bags. Oh, my troubles were so far away. I hate resellable bags.

I prefer scotch tape. I prefer doing it. You know, why do you hate recalibate? Unless you're going to take them in and out like a goddamn. Yeah. I guess that's, what you're going to do. All right. You just had me open this one. I mean, there's a great example.

June of 59. Here are the three big stories. They got equal space on the cover. The first one's a wrestling one. The secret is out. Police Gazette unmasks wrestling's zebra kid. Oh. And there's a photo of him there with a zebra mask. Was it a mugshot? It is not. But next to that. We should tell the kids that Police Gazette was not. not officially a mouth organ of the actual police department anywhere. It was like a sensationalistic crime and rough and tumble guy stuff publication. But it wasn't endorsed by like the National Police Department or anything. The second main story, inside story, how Labor Tsar Jimmy Hoffa gets away with it.

Makes you want to open it up and read and find that what that is. And finally, the story that... Wait a minute, 1959 to what was it, 70. How long did he get away with it until they got away with him? Like another 15 years or so. Another 15 years or so. And finally, Jim, the real lowdown, wild capers in Jane Mansfield's pink heaven. A headline that wouldn't work in 2026, the way it was intended

in 1959, Jane Mansfield's pink heaven. And of course, when you open the magazine, you find out that she has decorated her house in pink and pastels and et cetera. But they need to get you to open the cover first. That's right. That's right. They even have some pink in the article. Well, there we go.

And now what did George Bolus do to be exposed by police? Gazette, like he was on the wanted list. He was on the run as a felon. This is by Lewis Onslow. The Zebra Kid, wrestling's mystery man and the fiercest terror of the mat, glared at me through his striped mask and growled,

I'm going to take this mask off for the first time and let you know who I really am. The 292-pound, 5-foot-11-inch powerhouse had come to the police Gazette office, wearing the famous black and white striped mask that has concealed his identity from wrestling fans for nearly

10 years. Let's stop for a second. Anything you want to say about George Bullis, the zebra kid? Well, he was, from what I remember, Brian helped me out. He was a very high-level amateur, collegiate, and like most guys at that time in the business, you know, thought he could make some money, the Danny Hodges and the, the amateurs, the Vernanjas of the world, by gosh, were still coveted. But George Bolus was kind of in as personnel, Dick Hutton.

And when he got the black and white striped zebra kid mask and suit and whole thing, then he was a main event guy for, I wouldn't say on a national level everywhere, but he was high level in, was well not only internationally but several parts of the country before the territories or about the same time the territories were forming because this is nineteen fifty nine so he was big in in certain major markets and then is this the turning point because later on in his career he was billed as the zebra kid george bolus so is this when he voluntarily let people know who know who when he voluntarily let people know who he were then because a lot of people don't think it be like it is but it do

well back to this i'll read a little bit more it's a long article when he ripped off the mask the zebra kid revealed that he is not so fearsome outside the wrestling ring as he is in it for the mat's most ugly tempered grappler turned out to be a rugged thirty-three-year-old college graduate and former AAU and Big Ten heavyweight wrestling champ from Ohio State University named George Bullis. He has brown hair, hazel eyes,

and a wide friendly grin. Sounds like a dating profile. That turns into a wicked snarl only when the wrestling fans are jeering and taunting him in the ring. He expanded his 54-inch chest, flexed his mighty biceps, and said, Here's a quote. People always think I'm big enough to take care of myself, so they want to see me beaten.

I was not a successful wrestler until I put on that mask and started getting really tough with my opponents. How regular was that story, where you took someone, whether it's Johnny Walker or George Bolus, who, they had something, but it wasn't working out. You just put a mask on them and it changed everything. Well, in a lot of cases, I mean, taking the entire Lucha Libre industry out of it because it was customary to have a mask. But in American wrestling, which bled over into Japan, you didn't see masked job guys in Japan. They only brought over the top talent. And really, the American industry started with masked guys. as top guys and that it was down through the years it was prostituted into well you know hell we'll

make him the gladiator and he could do a job for you know whatever but in the 50s and 60s the masked guys that made an impression were top guys that were used in that fashion and were pushed on TV and that's why whether it was the destroyer because again and look at Dick Byer was you couldn't even call him ruggedly handsome but especially when he was young he just didn't he didn't have a face that could match what his body could portray in the ring

but with that mask on there was something else to hang your hat on as J.R. would say and you know the same thing with a lot of of guys with wrestling two johnny walker it was more because he had already been a star as johnny walker but he got bald and he looked he was old but he looked older than he was and so when when people thought he had retired and you put the hood on wrestling two and you know the fired up promos and the fucking you his body could still do shit so it was a way of covering it up sometimes and you know other to then later on you know tag teams and blah blah blah and like I said it got more common but it goes back to the fucking masked marvel in the 19 teens you know and and the various who we've talked about uh pat malone the green shadow who was you know one of the many masked heels in the 40s but they were always

top guys. Back to this article. George, who was a college football star as well as an amateur wrestling champ, turned pro grappler in 1948. But he fought clean and didn't wear a mask

and nobody was interested in him. Quote, so I decided to toughen up my tactics. Then a friend gave me that mask and I called myself the zebra kid. After that, Well, in translation, a booker saw, here's this kid, he's got some experience, but he just looks too plain, we've got to give him a gimmick, and the zebra kid, and suddenly he's in the main events. After that, I couldn't cope with all the bookings I got.

The idea of calling himself zebra came from the fact that George has a series of horizontal lines across his torso, caused by the skin being drawn tightly over his massive frame. Oh. Even at school, kids said he looked like a zebra. Well, I found a way to cash in on it, Grin George, taking out a huge cigar and puffing contentedly. As the original zebra kid, George has wrestled all over the United States and in New Zealand. Wait a minute, that was a feather thing, right? He was an early feffer creation, right? I think so, but I'm not certain. I swear to God, can you see Feffer sitting there in the dressing room going? Oh, Vantakid, he has the stretch marks.

We call him the zebra kid. We put the mask out it and it'd make a million. It really is kind of astounding the idea that they saw someone with excessive stretch marks. They're like, let's call him the zebra kid and give him a zebra mask and send them out there you go. And I'll tell that's Jack Feffer. As the original Zebra Kid, George has wrestled all over the United States. and in New Zealand, Australia, Canada, Mexico, the Hawaiian Islands, and Japan. Here's another quote.

I had to tag on that word, original, because the zebra kid has been so successful that I have had at least seven imitators. They wear similar masks, but actually, they are impostors as far as I'm concerned. And you know what? that was a thing also is that if a guy did get over as a mass, sometimes it would be another guy trying to trade off on the guy's gimmick and a lower level territory or outlaw show here and there, whatever. Even Jerry Jarrett at one time, because he had a thing for the Mr. Wrestling's. He booked Mr. Wrestling 2 and Mr. Wrestling one's feud some of it in the Omnitor.

time he's working for Barnett. But he brought Dick Steinborn in as Mr. Resling. And he had the white mask and the white fucking outfit in the whole nine yards years after Tim Woods had unmasked. And, you know, people knew it was Tim Woods. But with the mask on, Steinborn was really fucking good. You could really tell the difference. But the point is, is that a lot of times, again, guys would take that gimmick. He was talking about the imitators. And, you know, and it would, be presented on a lower level and the guy was just trying to rip it off and the original masked guy

would get pissed because that was diminishing his gimmick and his overness in towns he wasn't even working in and might want to work someday. So they got really protective of those gimmicks.

Check out this story. Every bout, a wild brawl. This is clear to anyone who has watched George Russell he is no longer a gentle giant, he turns every bout into a wild brawl. Often he leaps out of the ring and threatens to take on the screaming, jeering spectators single-handed. There was one time, in Columbus, Ohio, when the enraged fans took George at his word and tried to lynch him.

He had just defeated Bearcat Wright and was making his way back to the dressing rooms, when the 3,000 wild-eyed spectators decided they wanted to win. wanted George's blood and his mask. Here's a quote. I made a dash for the street, and the mob followed. They chased me for about ten blocks hurling rocks, pop bottles, chair legs, and anything else they could grab. I managed to leap into a cruising cab, but not before a rock had split my lip open. And the missiles continued to rain on the cab and other autos in the vicinity until we raced out of range.

That cab driver probably saved Georgia's life. But there was another cabby whom George nearly frightened to death. Here's another story. It happened in Atlanta, Georgia. I always put my mask on before I go into the arena so that nobody will see my face. This time, I put it on while the cabby was driving me into town. As we neared the arena, he turned around to say something. He took one look at the mask and let out a scream.

of terror. He slammed on the brakes, left out of the cab, and disappeared up the street in what looked to me like a record-breaking sprint. There I was, stuck in the middle of town in a driverless cab. I had to explain the situation to a cop, and finally we got it straightened out. I gave the frightened cabby free tickets to the show, but if he came, I'm surely I only hoped to see me murdered. A couple of classic stories. You know, I might have to call some wrestler exaggeration on a bit of that, but it is an interesting story.

You know, my favorite, I have it somewhere, and I own the rights to the magazine, actually, I should reprint it. In the wrestling exchange, I could be wrong. I think Gary Kamensack may have written in, and if not it was Gary Mancuso. It was an article about Wild Bull Curry, and it described a riot in Montreal where the fans chased him out of the building,

chased him down the street. He couldn't find anywhere to go, so he ran into someone's house. And they saw Wild Bull Curry show up, and they didn't know who he was, and this sweaty man in no clothes with the eyebrows and the faces of him. They called the cops. The cops finally come and get him. And then the fans attacked the cops and turned the cop car over. Just the craziest stuff.

And because it was Bull Curry and Montreal in those days, I might believe that. actually. It says here he was born in Akron, Ohio, and George lives today with his pretty wife K in a 56-foot $3,000 trailer in Newcastle Delaware. So like I said, there's a lot more here, but, uh, $3,000 bought you a lot of trailer back in those days. What else is in here? What makes Sarah Churchill run wild?

Death is the payoff for 15 years ago. Wait, but who's Sarah? Was that Winston's wife? Uh, who is Sarah Churchill? I don't know. Well, she's a wild one, though. Is she a case of a good little girl who never grew up? I thought she was one of those nymphomaniacs.

I don't know who Sarah is. Who throws baseball's dirtiest pitch? Film mogul Sam Goldwyn says, Moods make movie stars. And here's Jill Ireland in a bikini. In 1959? In 1959. The Knight Dempsey murdered Sharky.

How to hook a minnow. Cash in on workouts. And now these are just more stories. Here are the boxing ratings. Do they have wrestling ratings? I don't think so. All right. Well, this has been the George Bolus update.

Good to know George is doing well. Well, Jim, before we go, on and talk about other people who may or may not be doing well. Cornets collectibles at Jimcornett.com. With people like wrestling history, like what we just talked about, they can read more wrestling history for some of your fine publications. Well, they certainly can. Heroes and Friends is the book you need to read,

the book you need to have, unless you're coat of Abooshy and you don't want me to force any thoughts into your brain. But otherwise, the T-shirts and the autographed photos and the fine quality merchandise all the way around as well as the complete line of action figures of myself and the Midnight Express, available at Jimcornad.com where Hotchka's Featherbottom is waiting to serve you down on his knees, pleading, please give me something to do.

That's the way it usually is. Hotchkis Featherbottom is a man of many pleadings. So keep him busy at Jimcornad.com. He has children now and a pet goat. Well, Jim, as we move on, and congratulations, Hotchkis, Jimcornet.com. But Jim, as we move on here, yes. I want to make mention of something that came out this week, very sad news. Rebel from AEW, but also in TNA, and did various things in various places.

But Rebel, who hasn't been around in a few years, we have heard that she had been battling an illness, and now it has come out that she has Terminal ALS, which is, is Lou Gehrig's disease famously. Just want to send our best wishes to Rebel. She was, in my eyes, she may have been the highlight of the Brit Baker group in AWOL. Well, yes. Remember we got mad when she was gone for a while?

Where's Rebel? Where's Reba? Where's Reba? She's the best part of the whole deal. Where's Reba? No, I've, again, I haven't worked long stents with her, but I've met her several times. and just a nice up-tempo, bubbly, cheerful personality. And I haven't kept up with all of her health issues over the years,

the past several years, but I've known she's had some. But this is just horrible. And she is still a young person, and you would think to look at her that she would have been the healthiest person in the world, and it just, it can happen to anybody, I guess. But yeah, we sure do want to send our best wishes to her because that's a shame. And everybody that has worked with her for long periods of time

has always had good things to say about her from what I've seen. So, you know, she just, she was a very bright, perky person. I hate to see this happen. You know, to this day, one of the best comedy moments in AEW history because it worked was very early on when Britt Baylor, turned heel. They did a video showing her at her dentist office. And Rebel was in the background, and that's when it was revealed that Britt Baker thought her name was Reba. And you see Britt Baker calling her Reba. And when it was first exposed, it was pretty funny. I was like, man, that's

really good. So, yeah, very sad news. Very sad news. We send our very best to Rebel and hope everything is as good as it could be right now. Jim, on the topic of rosters, WWE has another few releases, and I don't know if we could say these are surprising. I think some of them may be surprising, but the word around with some of these is interesting. The New Day, Kofi Kingston and Xavier Woods have agreed to, I believe it was a mutual decision because WW wanted to restructure their contracts, and they said no. They'd rather be released. and also J.C. Mateo,

aka Jeff Cobb, and Tago Loa, aka the botch machine, have also been released, even though Solo seems to be a little bit more in focus the last few weeks than he's been in a while. What are your thoughts on? There's too many of them, first of all, because it got to the point where

that the amount of which it kind of is something that we told Vince McMahon in 1990 fucking six and here it is 30 years later the amount of Samoans on your roster is diminishing the specialness of the best

Samoans on your roster and the last thing and I don't wish the guy ill but the last thing that we're going to see of Tongoloa was falling off the fucking announced desk oh yeah Tonga Lola

you know I hate to say I understand it but it's a law of diminishing returns and we've seen what the returns are so far. Jeff Cobb was there less than a year. They saddled him with an awful name and just made him one of the guys there and never did anything with him really. Yeah, well, and that's, again, he was in a group where he might have been the best in-ring worker if you focused on each one of them individually and said, oh, that guy's the best. but in the group he was the fat little pudgy one. And who gives a shit?

And the name didn't help. It sounds like a fucking off ramp on the Ventura freeway. You know, so he just had, but the thing is, which we'll talk about a second, but didn't he like, tell New Japan, hey, see you later. I'm going for the fucking, the big money over there. he was actively gainfully employed when they signed him, right? That's right. He had made random one-off AEW appearances going back to almost the beginning,

and then he was a regular New Japan. A champion, I think. Wasn't he a champion? You have to give up a belt when he signed with WWE, or am I thinking of someone else? Nevertheless, I don't think he gets paid any more or less. I'm talking about the financial impact to these guys. The point is, if it's Tonga Loa, who falls off the desk,

and other things a lot. Okay, these things happen. This guy at least had a pretty good fucking job previously, and he left, did he burn a bridge, or did he just leave a spot that they've filled? For various reasons, this is all bullshit. I know some of the fans are saying, well, but God damn it, you know, he,

they didn't give him a chance, the booking, blah, blah, blah. What did they tell? tell him they were going to do versus what they did they actually do, I wonder. Or did they tell him anything or did he just blindly say, oh, this is going to be great. A lot of things go into this. But the ones that the people are the most upset about are the new day.

And they were making a ridiculous amount of money. I'm not saying more than they've, I'm saying a ridiculous amount of money. I'm not saying it was more or less than they deserved, but they were making a lots of money. But they'd also been there 20 and 15 years or whatever. At some point, you know, when is this a goddamn pension plan? You can go in that direction.

But the point is, these guys are going to start figuring out that they're signing these contracts to, leave whatever it is that they're doing if it's stable to sign a three-month contract. Because that's a bait. They've got three-month clauses where they can decide, well, we're either going to change the deal or cut you. But it was like going to Nick Gullis, but Mr. Nick, he was for three years.

Well, boy, it's not what you think. It's what we think. I don't, you know, so how can anybody trust that there's something? signing anything more than a three-month deal really with the WWE anymore in their new heartless corporate environment. I mean, Santos Escobar was a guy they bent over backwards to try to find a way to keep him from AEW. And then they just, like you said, what was it three months later?

When did he sign his new contract? Was it three months? Well, no, I think he's gotten close to a year out of it, but they just didn't do anything with him. And then now that he's pissed the other guys off, you know, they just, they, they bought him, stuck him on the shelf so that they wouldn't have him across the street and then he got hurt and then blah. Yeah, and by the way, I have a list here from the Hollywood Reporter. I don't know why it feels like a good time to bring this up.

Top CEO pay in Hollywood. David Zazlov's the winner, $165 million. Last year he made 51.9. Number two, Michael Kavanaugh of Comcast, $71.8 million, last year, 28.3. Number three on the list, Ari Emanuel, TKO, $67.3 million, plus 27.72% over his salary last year of 18.1. Lots of other executives on the list, Mark Shapiro also, 42.2%. $1.6 million, a 34% increase on last. And this is the Hollywood list.

This isn't the wrestling list, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. This is the list of all the people in Hollywood that have taken over now. These are people who looked at WWE, the way investors or venture capitalists look at a lot of different businesses you may like that have gone away. They say, we'll saddle it with debt. We're going to pay ourselves a ton of money. We're going to try to cut expenses. going to try to have some synergy between this and our other operation so that we can cut back

staff, they're making more money than ever, they're making more money than they've ever made before, these big Hollywood players, like Ari Emanuel Mark Shapiro, and then they're cutting wrestlers left and right again, not everyone can have a job, but the image it presents at a time where you're pricing out fans, at times where there's commercials in the middle of the commercials, and everyone notices it, this story is going to get bigger and bigger. next round the releases, they're going to keep releasing people. Not to say they're not going to keep bringing people into developmental or whatever, but they're going to keep releasing people.

This story's only going to grow. You know what? I think I figured out the way to say what I was trying to say the other day, that Vince at least, I was trying to, I was groping for it. I said, Vince at least had some respect for the concept of the business. I think a better way to say it is, Vince at least had some respect for the ability it took to be a main event wrestler at his company

and that's why that he liked to keep him and like to fucking keep him over whenever he could and the the TKO group or whatever brain trust may just think you know we've heard they say oh we need a younger roster, these guys are 40 now. Well, no shit, because they're over and they have been stars for years. But they may just think, okay, we can bring the new younger kids up from NXT and start putting them on TV like they're replacing characters in anything from Cirque de Soleil to one of the Vegas productions that requires

athletic gymnasticsry. they just revolve the cast it's the show is the thing and in wrestling as we know it's not the thing the stars are the thing but do they have a respect for how hard it is to make those and keep them no they're using AI to write their show I don't think they have any respect for what it takes to really do anything in the wrestling business oh come on I don't think they're using AI

to they may be playing with it but I don't think they're using it because it would be probably more exciting and chaotic than this pattern formula drivel they're giving us. Well, that's right. We'll get there shortly. New Day. Obviously, can't call themselves New Day anymore. Can't call themselves Xavier Woods.

I think Kofi may be his name, so he can't call himself Kofi Kingston, but he can be Kofi. You think they're going to go to A.E.W? I think he'll call himself, he'll call himself, Kofi's the king, son. Okay. You know, this is the problem again. And besides, I never got the gimmick with the trumpets and the pancakes and the fucking blah. We've talked about it.

Never got it. Didn't have anything particularly against the individuals in it. But yeah. But Kofi's been there 20 years. I think Xavier had been there for 15. And some, and with their making what was alleged to be seven figures in the story because they said, hey, you know, that's the deal, right? There's a story going around as they said, well, we'll give you half of what you're

making now and we'll keep you. And they said, well, fuck you. But they're making seven figures. And when these guys are just looking at the roster like they are, even if you were an old time promoter, you would have had to do something with these guys, unless they'd bought into the office by then. 20 fucking years. Just give it a rest.

Now this company can afford to just keep them and pay them to stay home like Tony does, but it's obvious they're not going to. But really, you know, what else is there to fucking do? And you know that Tony will pay potential opponents of the Buccarus

you know, seven figures. And we've said before they could sign the reanimated corpse of Luthes in AEW and it wouldn't impactfully move the numbers. And I think past maybe the first week or two on TV, depending on what rating method they might be using that week, they might pop some of the better numbers they've had in a while. And I don't know that, again,

these guys can make a difference in the business, in the vacuum that is AEW, but they'll probably go there, don't you think? Yes, and yes, I don't think they'll make any difference to the business, but I think they'll go there and I think Tony needs people who are actual stars on his roster. So in that way, it's better them than a Daniel Garcia, a Wheeler Yuda, whoever it may be. But that's why WWE was okay with this. WVE had to know if we offered a cut their contract, they're going to want to go. I mean, it's a kind of a nice way of releasing someone. And WWE had to know that they would probably want to wrestle the young bucks, the dream match they never got to have. WWE, they made the decision that them going to AEW won't

matter. And that's why they're doing this. Yes. Not that that's the only factor. Obviously, they need to save every cent they can, WWE. They'd have to take the water coolers out of the office soon. But if WW was afraid that these guys were difference makers, they wouldn't have released them. I think it was they've, they pretty much understand in the WWE or the TKO hierarchy that very few people, if anybody in the world is a quote unquote difference maker for AEW.

So there's, there would be some guys that there might be some guys that there might be some. some level of embarrassment if they somehow found themselves signed by Tony for billions and billions of dollars. But for the most part, they know that nobody that they would want to release any time in a near future would be able to make any difference because they figured out Tony's level and Tony's structure and how that nobody else has made a difference when they should have. And then also they may know something inside because they're, Tony's like the billionaire kid that none of the regular real billionaires

wants to play with, apparently, because the fucking big time multi-billionaires in TKO and Hollywood and the criminal United States administration and Paramount, they all talk to each other and they know what's going on. So do you think the W.W.E. Office knows something about why they don't need to sweat Tony Kahn, otherwise than the obvious it's on the face of everything. I think W.E.E.E.E.E.W. knows they don't have to worry about AEW. Getting a good media rights deal because, well, it doesn't really matter. Tony could pay. I was going to say,

if all of a sudden AEW can't pay wrestlers what they're paying them, then WW gets what they really want, which is they cut salaries and not pay people as much, but Tony, you'll pay everyone no matter what. If he had no TV, he can keep paying everyone. Nothing could stop. And, and, you know, well,

it would be embarrassing if he stopped, so therefore he won't stop. But, but anyway, it's just, again, another one of those examples of, it's a new day in the WWE.

and they don't give a shit. They want goddamn results. If you want a goddamn walk on the sidewalk in front of the new Titan Tower, you better be ready to hand over your pocket change, motherfucker. Well, Jim, every new day is a new chance, a new chance to eat well and eat healthy,

have meals crafted by chefs, have great delicious fresh food sent to you. I am a big fan of Factor The New Day will now have plenty of time to eat right and get off the road but let's tell all the listeners about our friends at Factor who have those delicious meals Well that's what I'm wondering

Is that what the New Day need to be doing because they're noted for pancakes and things like that A New Day going to become the celebrity deliverers of the Factor meals Now this would fit because so many of our fans are fans of Factor because they have factored in all the time that it takes to shop and prep and cook and clean up afterwards,

and they have come up with the conclusion mathematically that factor has meals not only built around your goals, whether it's weight loss, nutrition, protein, or more, but it's easier because every meal is crafted with functional ingredients. Those proteins, well, they do a variety of things. chemically in your body, they enhance your physiognomy and the colorful vegetables and whole foods and even healthy fats. Those are fats that have been sent to a fat farm and have been made to exercise. So when you eat them, it's like eating mussely and fat instead of fatty fat. Listen, everyone knows that's not what that means and everyone knows there are different kinds of fats and of course there's different kinds of proteins

and different kinds of... There's just great food everywhere is what we're talking about here. Vegetables of different colors spread all over your plate in gravy. Folks, these are fresh, never-frozen meals. There's over 100 rotating weekly meals. They show up like that on this giant lazy Susan and as it's spinning around, you just snatch one off. And every time you snatch one, you get a point unless you snatch the wampes.

unless you snatch the whammy in which case, then you lose your goddamn turn. Your meals will be static. There are no turns. Well, they say they're rotating. They don't have them all hundred at every week, I guess. You got to jump in and check all the time. Globally inspired flavors, Mediterranean and Asian.

And there's things from the Belgian Congo as well as the Antarctic Circle. So there's always something new to look forward to. Not that we're aware of it. We can't promise things that aren't there, Jim. Well, I think they get the swordfish from the tundra. See? So there you go. I see nothing.

You said you think. I don't think that's true. I think the swordfish from the tundra? I don't believe they. Again, you don't think the swordfish come from the tundra? I don't know exactly where they're doing it or how they're getting it. Well, then you can try the newly launched, ready to eat salads.

They've launched these things. flying through the air, they've got vibrant ingredients like elote corn and misoidammy. And in regular old lettuce that you, my rule is, don't eat a salad of a rabbit won't eat it. Plus 70 plus add-ons to round out your nutrition from green juices to peanut butter energy bites. Boom, they just give you a boost of energy in every bite of those peanut butter things. And all these dinners that I'm talking about, these meal. these complete gourmet meals that come in a container,

ready for you to just heat up and they're ready in two minutes because they shop, they prep, they cook, they deliver to your door. They'll come and pick up the garbage also. If you just set a bag of garbage out with Factor on it, it'll be picked up in the two to six weeks. It will be picked up, not by Factor. And why would it even take two to six weeks? Why wouldn't you put it out with your trash?

Well, Factor is busy. No, you put it out and it'll sit there for two to six weeks, is factor's busy, send in all these meals to people. They don't have time to pick up garbage. My point is, why would you, even if they offered this ridiculous feature that they don't offer that you just promised, even if they did, why would you wait for them? Why wouldn't you just put it in your trash for the trash man? Well, it seems awful rude to the trash man.

He didn't have any responsibility for this. This is something you did on your own. You should give it back to Factor. They provide the service, but you have to wait for it because they're busy. I don't know about this, but. Right now. Now, you can go to factormeals.com slash JCE 50 off and use that code, JCE 50 off. And you're going to get 50% off.

And freely, freely issued greens, free daily greens per box of food that you get with new subscriptions only while supplies last. I mean, they're yanking shit out of the yard to meet the demands. right now, so the whole lawn's going to be bare pretty soon of all kinds of greenery. So hurry now, factormeals.com slash JCE 50 off and use that code to get 50% off and free daily greens per box with new subscription only. And of course, when you go to factormeals.com, the website's going to give you many more details than I can right here, being as I'm just hitting the high points of the matter.

factor meals.com slash JCE 50 off. Hmm, it's delicious. That's right. Factor, we love them, you will too. Factormeals.com slash JCE 50 off. Well, Jim, as we move forward here with the drive-thru, I think we have to factor in the idea that we have to talk about some modern wrestling and stuff that you have watched

and as we are recording, WWE Raw took place last night in between a sea of commercials. They tell you how many, too. One of eight. one of eight ads playing right now. Like, geez, I guess I know I have time to leave the room, but let's talk about WWRWA.

You know, that is a handy little thing where they say, okay, this is number three of eight commercials that we're going to, and they have the clock ticking down, so you can rush out and evacuate your bowels and come back and not miss any more commercials or plugs or promotions or travelogs or drone shots or scripted banter between people in sketchy costumes. By the way, if I'm a sponsor, I'm saying I don't want to be Ed 2 through 7.

Well, yeah, because that's, you know, you're pretty much telling, it used to be the commercials just hit you out of nowhere. No, I mean, Brian, even me as an experienced TV watcher back in the day, back before Reagan's deregulation, I still knew that I had two minutes. and I had the race to the bathroom or the race to the refrigerator, I had it down, baby.

Speaking of racing and having things down, remember you said AI was starting to help contribute to these storylines, you would have to think that all the different AI conglomerations would make the show different most of the time.

It's the same people doing the same kind of shit the same way. And we've laughed about the opening promo and now they play the music and everything's on cue, but also the open challenges everywhere and the attacks with it. You can tell how good the pull-a-parts going to be

by whether they just send the referees or whether they send the referees and the agents. It appears is out there. It's the top guys. And it's just matches amongst mid-car. people that they've made with whatever, there's no purpose given to the matchmaking to the fan. Remember back in the old days if you had any kind of important match on television,

they'd kind of tell you why they put it together. Because it was demanded by or needed by or wanted by or whatever. But now you know, here these guys are just going to yell at each other until we, A lot of similarities, Brian, do you get my meaning? Every show feels like it's the same thing. Someone starts with a promo, another person comes out, they almost go at it and then all of a sudden Pierce is on the microphone in the back before he comes out. Setting up a match for later.

Promos up the gazoo, the matches with the people I really don't care about right now in a lot of cases. open challenges everywhere. It's not good TV. You know, their defenses, look at the business we do. Look at how much money we make and how many tickets we sell and worldwide the business we do. And it's a great argument. My argument would be,

imagine what it would be if the shit was good. Exactly. Imagine how much bigger it would be if right now, you had to watch that show and had to see what was happening. Right now you have to see a recap the next day. You're not going to miss anything. And Ron Smackdown have both been on this slide for a little while, started before WrestleMania.

It's not just a post-Resslemania thing. There are highlights, there are things that are okay that would fill up maybe what, 25 minutes, 30 minutes of a show, and then there's a whole lot of nothing, or a whole lot of I don't care and then there's a whole lot of commercials and then it just ends whenever they want Did I answer your question?

There was a question something. Well, it doesn't I think everybody's got to point by this point that Jesus Christ Only WWE would have the most boring AI I don't people use AI and they get crazy shit They make little crazy videos

They get crazy photos It's scary It's the end of society and humanity all in one. WWE has the most boring one. Make another open challenge. Have a tournament for a belt. Have general manager come out

and stop them and make match. The show suck right now. The creative sucks right now. It's not just the writers. It's the writers. It's the process. And clearly this is what Triple H thinks is good wrestling.

There used to be in any hot period, whether it was the attitude era, or any territory, a sense of urgency in the angles or in the matches at the main event guys or in the fan's eyes that, oh, my gosh, and there's, it's just, it takes so long for anybody to do things and or you get, as we opened the show with here on May the 4th, be with you. You get a couple minutes of, wow, and then you're sitting around for 45 minutes. It's, you know, letting the wow settle down. But they did the misdirection play where Roman came in for once before the show star,

as the show was starting. And he's looking for Jacob, but he's pissed off. And he's about to go out and right as he does, right as Pierce has been able to tell him, look, Jacob's not here yet. Then there's Seth. Then Seth says, you're in my way. See, kind of, you know, the double meaning there, Brian. you're in my way

of the top dog position and he goes out the gorilla position so now you got Seth coming out and he gets about almost a ring side and Braun just jumps him from behind and just beats a shit out of him and the officials and the security

and they get him back and then he breaks loose and he spears Seth and then the dastardly heel as speared Seth Rollins, a sympathetic baby face who's just come back from injury. And the fans begin chanting one more time, one more time.

Because at least they're seeing something. Because if they're regular viewers of the program, they might know already they got a long slog ahead of them. And then, and of course, they're going to face each other at backlash where hopefully nobody will get whiplash.

but nice flurry way to start the program. And as we'll see then, they've followed it up with an hour or more of not much depending on how charitable you want to be. I got to tell you, I got to work out with the vision. You see Brown Breakers' arms? You see Logan Paul's arms? Their arms are getting bigger and more defined. That's not the comment I thought you would make first.

but, well, I'm glad to see you're studying their fucking physique. Bronbreaker's arms look good. It makes me want to go down and work out. Yeah, this is all right. You know what? Or take the vision vitamins, oral or injectable. That's right. Hopefully I could avoid whatever vitamins theory is on.

It looks like he's glued pubis to his face. Oh, come on now. facial hair I've ever seen. He's trying to find himself. You know, I liked Rollins here. I like the little interact with Rollins and Raines in the back. because that's never been resolved. So that's like, you want to talk about things for the future, if done right,

could be pretty cool. Rollins and Raines, finally just go at it, go nuts. The big feud. Crazy go mild. Yeah, I mean, this was really just a thing to set up the pay-per-view and another thing for the pay-per-view. We'll discuss the pay-per-view a little bit later on. It was a good opening segment, I think, good energy.

As about it. I mean, this is not really, I mean, It's just it's a nice, it was a nice open. I just, again, you know, the fans are chatting one more time, kill that baby face because we just, your spear is cool. But at least they were interested. But then my interest level went downhill. We were followed by Finn and JD.

They had a match. And then Penta and Jvonne had a match with Ethan Page and Rusev. I wonder if he sold that private. property in Bulgaria, Brian. I would have a place to retire to. And then Becky and Saul Ruka got in each other's face and yelled at each other and I saw the clip on

on Twitter that poor Saul went for the front flippy do and slipped on the ropes and then came off the bottom rope and Becky just kind of face planted herself. off on top of her, which that, again, that move doesn't make any sense anyway, but we won't go into that now. And then I stopped at Hendry and theory, baby, because Joe Hendry, again, has some charisma and can really do the music thing. And as much as these people like to sing these days, one would think he's right up their alley.

And he did the deal in the ring, playing the guitar, singing the Fire Logan Paul song. We got a fire Logan Paul. And the people are they're waving the lighters or the phones or whatever it is. They're waving like they're at a concert. And out

comes Logan Paul. And theory now is like the fucking the best relationship I can think, Brad, you'll pop on this is Logan Paul as Bush Reed and Austin Theory's buddy Landale. He wishes. He wishes. Come on. Oh, come on. You know, but you know what I've said, the relationship.

Where the one is, is the, the, the, the, the, fucking egonautical star. And the Logan Paul's pissed and he sends theory in. And theory, Henry gets a flurry, but theory takes over. This gets heat. The people were chatting. Logan sucks. While Logan's at rings, theories beating on the fucking guy they like. And again, I'm sorry, theories work. He's the only one of these guys I think that I would actually work with at my current age and physical infirmity. He's the only one that I look at.

No, but I'm saying, if I had to, say, give me him. He won't hurt me. I'm just telling you. And he, and he's great right now. in this stooge fucking position because the package gets heat, but Logan Paul needs a stooge. And that's why I say the butch and buddy thing

is, I think they need to explore this as a tag team, but also just whenever you see Logan, you see theory and blah, blah, blah. Anyway, Henry made a comeback and Logan Paul jumped in and got on him disqualification. and then Hendry fought back but Therry came back and they got double heat and then the street profits made the save again

I'm like I don't give a shit about them but Braun came back and destroyed the fucking street profits launched one of them into the orbit of I don't know whether he took the bump or he was given the bump but then Seth came out and got all over Braun and cleared the heels out

and Montez Ford came in and dove over, over Seth onto everybody else, but that distracted Seth, and Braun speared Seth and left him laying. So again, we got three really exciting minutes at the start, and then we waited about an hour, hour and a half, whatever it was, and then we get two more exciting minutes with the same fucking guys, at least we know they're mad at each other before the pay-per-view, Brian.

Yep. There's not much I could add to that. The Montez Ford bump from... What was it, actually? What did he take? I think he kind of just bellied a belly to him and just launched him over the top to the floor, but in a wild way. It looked great.

He got height. I've never seen anyone, like, their feet up in the air that high taking that. It looked incredible. and that was that was another segment if it was back on real television instead of goddamn Netflix we could slow-mo these things and determine how badly anybody was injured but anyway then then we go back to the open challenge that oba's guy and oba's over over oba

and the people love him but what I said this last week on a program what sense does it make for him to have an open challenge when he's the one that should be doing the challenging. I know they want to give him wins every week and get him over as they should. Just why does it have to be framed this way, especially since somebody else is doing it on the other show, aren't they? I think it's Tiffany Stratton or someone. One of the women was doing an open challenge on Smackdown this past week.

but that's what I'm saying is they should be telling a story at Oba's challenging Roman Raines Obes challenging Cody Rhodes Obit's challenging all the top guys and they can also tell the story

that the baby faces can have plausible deniability hey as soon as I get finished with this motherfucker I'm trying to get even with I'll be more than happy and the heels can fucking beg off for what he's not ready and then you book him every week

just because he's a wrestler and you can book him. And then you look at the unlucky son of a bitches that have to be forced into the ring with him every week. Because they are booked by the goddamn wrestling commissioner to goddamn face him instead of some dipshit says, well, I'll get my way to fame and stardom by fighting this fucking guy. What kind of idiot am I?

And then they send out Otis and Tuzawa who are allegedly baby faces because of their comedy and ribbled stories. I don't know how the fuck they got over. And I'll tell you one thing, if I was the new day or even Tonga Loa and I got cut before Tazawa, I'd be a mad son of a bitch. But anyway, and Tazawa actually. like he and model girls with them. So they're baby-faced jobbers.

It makes no sense. And Tuzawa does the comedy where it's like he's going to accept the challenge and he gets scared and Otis gets in. And yes, Oba beat him in two minutes or whatever. I have a shoulder tackle it and Oba tossed him and put him up on a turnbuckle after doing some physical comedy like, oh, how should I approach this giant person to lift him up? And powerbondy, one, two, three. Just book the fucking match. The open challenge thing

makes it sound, it makes it ridiculous and nonsensical. And don't put him against baby faces or comedy figures because then he's drawn into their world and you want to keep him apart from that. He doesn't associate in those goddamn slovenly areas of the business. He's a main event fucking guy.

Have you beat people and be serious about it? Have I lectured too long, Brian? Andre de Giant didn't do an open challenge. No, everybody was forced into the fucking ring with him. It's the same principle. Yes, it is. Yes, it is the same principle. And thankfully,

and that's sometimes the announcer would even say that the only reason whoever would agree is he he's got two other partners to take on this giant or whatever. But anyway, and then they had a lot of Americanos. They had a six-man

Americanos match. Where the people who are really Americanos wrestled other guys who I think was the Creed brothers who were pretending to be Americanos and it was just swell. I will gladly watch a mask versus mask match. I'm looking forward to it, actually. I do not want to watch anything

they do on Raw. Yeah. And then speaking of Raw, we were two hours into the program, and I guess the AI machine blew a fuse or whatever, because they were just ready to go ahead and go home. That was all they had for this week. And Roman Raines entrance begins. And then they go to a break for two and a half minutes, helpfully counted down on the screen. And then they come back with a couple of plugs and some pyro and some milking. And Roman sits down.

And then we get Jacob's entrance. And he comes out of it. He's got his lighting and his music. And he gets in after seven minutes after that Roman's entrance started, Adam Pierce spoke one sentence and the fans started singing. And then Roman asked to be acknowledged,

and then they chanted OTC. And it was past eight minutes after that he started walking to the ring before this goddamn thing actually got started, Brian. It was, am I being too critical here? I mean, I could have gone and taken a healthy shit, dropped a fudge monkey off at his cage, fired off a chocolate rocket.

I don't know why these are. the examples you chose to use here, but it takes a while. And it's on a show where everything else takes a while. It's one thing if Roman had the only slow entrance. But there's lots of guys who do. And it takes forever. And this was the main event. You know, you're looking at the lineup here. It's like they're using less people on Raw 2. And they go right to the main event. I was surprised because it was early, figured they made you a big long angle, but no, they just kind of did their own thing.

Well, by the time they started talking, and I think this thing is just being forced and rushed. I mean, the whole reason why you would want to see Jacob Fatou against Roman Rains is because of the family background and the family dynamic and the way that they've all related to each other and they're all in their

30s and they've given us everything in three fucking weeks and there's no slow build to this whatsoever and Roman is a condescending guy as a baby face because he's still, he's being Roman calling him little cousin but hey I brought I watched you from afar I brought solo here and Solo brought you here

so I brought you here and you need to respect me and how dare you use the Tongan death grip on me? Now, see, this I liked, you save that for an eight-on-one bar fight at 3 o'clock and a morning. You don't use that on family. They're really trying to get the Tongan death grip over. But then Jacob's thing is, again, is I'm desperate, and I've got no other choice but to take you out. so then I'm going to squeeze out every dollar

that I can from this, just like this company does. I'm like, what the fuck? But the fans, I mean, you heard that, right? I did. It's a bizarre line to say, yeah. Well, he said it, but I don't know. The fans are not wanting to boo Jacob Fatu

because they like him. And by the end of this thing, they're chanting for him because they want to chant for him. him, but they can't really rousingly pop behind his material here because it's greedy Jacob. They don't really know whether they're wholeheartedly behind greedy Jacob. Does that make sense? This whole thing has just come up.

No, give me all the fucking money. I don't care what the fuck I do. Is this what they think they're giving him an edge suddenly because they cleaned him up too much, but it's... They poorly booked him. You saw the potential when he got there, just focusing on when he got there, not anything even before them. For like a...

You don't want to say Jimmy Snooka, because that worked out better than you could have hoped for in terms of how fans took to him. But that kind of thing where he's a wild man, he's doing cool shit, they're going to have to cheer him. Yeah. Then you do something. They put him in the long thing with solo. in his group.

Now they have him just repeating the same line over and over again. All break, no gas. No, all gas, no break. Excuse me. I was thinking of Raw, not the wrestler. All praise, no gas. All gas, no break. He yells at his catchphrase.

It doesn't seem like a lot of people are yelling it with him, and that's why he's doing it. Because they weren't clamoring for him as a baby. Like, they botched it. And then the Drew Feud... The Drew Feud... The Drew Feud... The Drew Feet...

didn't really click and they tried everything they had him on top of a cop car and they go right into the Roman thing and but you started saying they didn't want him as a baby face they wanted him they liked him doing what he was doing and if you just austined him down the middle

until the and do a slow build type of thing with a top guy like Roman whatever that that would have but now he's been clean Jacob now he's greedy Jacob and they still want to cheer him, but they don't want to share a lot of the things that he's saying in here.

And so Roman signed the contract and said, you're worried about seven kids. I'm worried about 170 because the whole roster depends on him. This is all mine. We're equal as family. We're the same blood. But in this ring, you're beneath me. And then Jacob Tongan death gripped him again. But this time, Roman slipped it and fought back.

and they struggled over the grip. But finally Jacob got it and slammed him, not through the table, but the table turned over it. It looks better that way because I'm sick and tired of these fucking things breaking. And he signed the contract and they chanted for Fatu. That highlight of this two hour and 15 minute program could have probably been done in, I'd say, seven to ten minutes back in the old days,

that they might give it a few more, a few extra minutes for entrances today. I think you said it best, Dave. This all feels rushed. There's something to be done with him and Roman, and this wasn't the way to do it or set it up. You're not getting the reactions that I think they want or should want.

The fans have been almost muted at times. Either they don't want to see Jacob Fatou behave like this or talk like this or go against Roman. Because Roman is the heel that became a baby face because they liked them as a heel. They didn't like them as a baby face. That didn't work. They like Roman as a heel. Jacob is the baby face that became a baby face because they liked him as a heel,

but now they ain't liking him as a baby face. Yeah, I don't know. That was WWE Roy. Any closing thoughts on that last segment? What do you think of their attempts to get the Tongan death grip over? They got the spike. over years ago with Solo. Well, yeah, that's the only good thing about

this is at least that's the way you get a hold or a move or whatever over. You even have the top guys show the effects of it and even talk about it in reverent tones. I get all that. That's fine. But maybe they couldn't they have, again,

it would have been wonderful and Jacob had been using that to hurt people for fucking three months. And then suddenly he dazzed. You DASA to do it to Roman. Oh my God, a member of his own family, but it just, it's come out of nowhere.

Everything's come out of nowhere, Cinderella story. And also the event is like tomorrow, you know what I mean? Like it's just, they're going right to the match. I guess we should bring it up here. A lot of buzz this past week, it was revealed that Roman Raines was pulled from all of his June raw dates. Well, come to find out, apparently that was a clarifying. error that they released that he was going to be on those dates to begin with, and it was wrong,

and they corrected it. And then I believe Dave Meltzer reported, I could be wrong, but I believe that's who I saw this attributed to, that Roman wasn't working Knight of Champions in Saudi Arabia. So he wasn't going to be on the show's building up to that, which makes you question, is there going to be a different champion for that show? But we'll see what happened. But hold on now. What was, didn't they set some type of precedent on the Saudi shows that they have a Saudi,

what is a crown jewel champion? That's right. Oh, I guess that's not this. Night of Champions isn't that. I'm thinking a crown jewel where the two champions wrestle each other. You're right. You're right. Well, there are so many champions.

I don't even know what I was right about. I was just going to ask, isn't it mandatory that he come to that if he's a champion? Well, we shall see. I don't know if I was a WW restaurant. But that ain't the night. If I was a WW wrestler, I don't know if I'd want to go to Saudi Arabia right now. Well, no, I think they're all insane. And again, but anyway, my closing thoughts on Raw are they are going to, they don't have a passion for the industry at the top.

They have a passion for money. And I don't know what's going on with the creative team and what limitations or pressures they have or things that they're told to do or not do. But boy, howdy, if there's 18 of them and this is the best we can get, then there's something wrong. And I'm afraid Tony Kahn, AEW, has gotten as big as they're going to be.

And if they were going to be bigger, it would have happened before now. And yes, they can, you know, sign Lewis and Clark to fucking draw a couple of extra viewers or a few extra pay-per-view buys, but on a whole, they're as big as they're going to be. And if the WWE pisses off 100,000 of their fans, then Tony may pick them up.

That's not a game-changing thing. And if the WWE just makes a complete piss pot out of this whole thing and or runs everybody off, then they could sell it for parts and be done with it. And then where will we be? So that's why I've been incensed at Tony Kahn for the last seven years for botching the only legitimate chance that anybody was going to have at something else besides the

WWE if the WWE gets tired of doing this. And there you have it. Yeah, by the way, at some point someone needs to do the math, but since you stopped watching AEW and a lot of fans stop watching because they only watch to hear what or see what you were going to talk about, they just had their lowest dynamite rating. And since they readjusted the ratings and it's gone downhill all four weeks since you stop. Well, but they've readjusted the ratings three times now. Blow me, blow me on your

fucking ratings, Nielsen, pal. And nobody can believe anything they say anymore. Well, here, just readjust it again. And instantly it's a completely different set of data. And then somebody else can play, well, readjust that back. And what if you're just making this shit up out of your ass fucking scam artists well jim that was wrong yes we didn't have a lot of energy until you started going off on the nielsen people asking them to blow you but jim or they could just kiss my ass if they don't want to get too intimate that may just be a symptom that you are too tired that you need to stop and you need to go lay down and get a good night sleep or take a really healthy nap on a wonderful helix

sleep mattress i thought you were going to say take a really healthy shit. I wouldn't want to do that on a Helix mattress. Although you can, folks, I've seen that they're easier to clean. Oh, come on. Let's not go down this road. There's no reason to open up like this. They are easier to clean than the normal mattress. Now, they have some kind of coating on them.

You can just, you can wipe things right up. You can be a variety of things. You can just wipe off. Go to the toilet. Well, hold on. I'll be right back. I'm going. No, hold on, folks. Are you right now in the process of the spring cleaning, even though it's going on summer, maybe it's taking you a while. Maybe you're running behind.

The old mattress that you've got in your home right now is just a bag of pollutants. Horrible, disgusting, microscopic dust mites and things with pinchers and eyeballs that look like a Roger Corman film that will render you in the middle of the night, limb from limb, ripping your flesh from its bones, a little bit of a piece at a time. So you can't even tell it, but over a period of time, where do you think all that loose skin comes from on your sheets? Huh? It's the mites. Well, you want to get rid of all that stuff. So a helix mattress is going to make it a lot cleaner, Brian, so you won't have those microscopic prehistoric organisms constantly chewing on the very flesh that's on your bones. And as well, you might be more

comfortable too because after all the helix mattress has a variety of options where you can sleep firm or sleep hard or sleep on your back or sleep on your front or now they've got the brand new where you don't have to sleep at all you just they it's a desk mattress where you just slide it right up next to your desk and you can lay there and and do your work and you take it to the office with you they don't have a desk mattress they don't have a bellel go see mattress or any of the other ones that you've heard about only here on this show, but you can go to their website and check out wonderful fine mattresses, the kind that we have here in my house, and Jim has in his house, led by us and our families.

You can have in your house or a storage unit. If you'd like to just get a storage unit, it's cheaper than apartment rent, and just run an extension cord from the nearest outdoor outlet at like a hearties or whatever, for example, and put a Helix mattress in here, and it's a wonderful place to get away with the girl friend, whenever the wife's at home. Storage facility? Yes, well, it's just the right size for a helix mattress. You just, well, you crank that, and there's no windows, but you can bring a portable fan.

But anyway, folks, 82% of those involved in a study that was run saw an increase in their deep sleep cycle while sleeping on a helix mattress. As a matter of fact, a lot of people have overlooked that the police Gazette reported that the last place that Jimmy Hoffa was seen was on a Helix mattress. No, they didn't. No, he wasn't. It wasn't there. He could wake up any day and go, what the fuck has people been looking for me? That's how comfortable he was on that helix mattress, ladies gentlemen. And you can be too. If there are people looking for you and you want comfort, just lay down and stay there. They'll never pull the sheets up over your head.

They'll never find you. And free shipping. There you got that going for you. Yes, you do. And if you modify these helix mattresses slightly with a zipper, you can just crawl right in the middle of the thing and zip it up around you. No, you can't. And nobody's going to know you're there.

Let's not do that. Great for Halloween 2 or for eavesdroppers. It's awful. It's awful. Listen, that's not good for eavesdroppers. It's living in your mattress. Yes. go to

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WWE backlash May 9th this coming weekend as we are recording from Tampa, Florida at the Benchmark International Arena. The Benchmark International Arena. Is there a famous company named Benchmark? There must be. Good Lord, the names they come up with these days.

Who's naming these arenas, the people give the NXT guys and girls their names? The people who pay for it, that's the issue. Well, anyway, so three weeks after a two-night WrestleMania that was possibly the subject, let's say, of mixed reviews, they're going to come back and give us one night of what? That's a great question. Jim, here are the matches announced.

Five big matches for this pay-per-view event or pre-en-air event. Five. God damn, they're going to go broke. How can they pay these people? Seth Rollins versus Braun Breaker with Paul Heyman. I mean, it's going to be a technically excellent match, I would think. Braun is the future. Seth can do his thing athletically.

Paul will hopefully prevent him from doing anything fucking crazy. But I guess it, This is the natural thing to have wanted to see at WrestleMania, and does it now seem like it's more anticlimactic than it would have been? But they, now we hear that Braun was cleared, but they wanted to save it, but good Lordy, wouldn't that have been, wouldn't that have been a bigger profile to start this thing out at?

Yeah, the Rollins Goonther thing went completely away. No one's even talking about it or thinking about it. Who goes over? Who do you think has to go over here? well it depends on whether hopefully they're going to this is not just the one match they have and that it's over brawn

turned on the leader of the group as the young hungry lion and fucking hurts Seth and Seth's coming back to get even you know under normal circumstances if they're both over at the same level you'd probably want Seth to win the match

and Braun to get some heat afterwards of some description but since Braun has been out hurt himself and hasn't really had a strong run leading up to this, I think I would put Braun over and give Seth some kind of hope of getting even afterwards, possibly his hands on Paul, and then Braun facilitate the walrus's escape, but Seth still chasing after him to get what he wants, that type of thing. But who am I? What do I know?

Jim, a match that I'm sure you're not looking forward to, but I am. I think this will be good. Oh, boy. Eoskai. Oh, crap. Versus Oskah. This has been building for a long time. Much like the expulsion of excrement that has been building for a long time in Eio's fucking constipation face.

Why did you? And when they grimace and groan and groan. each other and wildly gesticulate and then fucking scream and each other all the time and ooh I get to poop I can't poop and yeah all right I think it'll be really good like I said the bit yeah it'll be really good one of them's gonna poop first poop match the winner is the first one to draw poop from the loser again Kyrie Singh was a part of this and instead of letting to play out to the pay-per-view here.

They let her go a week ago. That's interesting. That's because she had to go. All right, let's move on. Jim, for the United States Championship, the champion, Trick Williams, with Lil Yadi versus Sammy Zane. Whop that trick!

Whop that trick! Whop that trick! I am going to probably like this because Sammy's a full-fledged heel. Trick is he's just being trick. Didn't we learn a long time that he was bout it, about it,

a long time ago. In NXT, wouldn't trick the one that was about it, about it. I think so. Well, now it's all about, it's all about it now.

And little Yachty can do no wrong. Mm-hmm. That's right. Mm-hmm. What are you, what are you learning at? Is this the way you and your friends used to talk about handsome Jimmy

and Jerry. Oh, huh. That's right. Oh, handsome. He's so cool. Uh-huh. that's right what do you think of Sandys

your work right now well it's good because there hasn't been that much he's because he's not being a stereotypical heel he's been the fucking frustrated you know misunderstood guy and then the little weasily guy and now he's still a little

squirrely but I'm enjoying this new presentation for both of these fellows who do you think goes over Oh, is this for another one of the belts? Who's got one? U.S. title, Trick Williams, the champion. Oh, he ain't losing it.

All right, we will see if the gingerbread man returns at this event after being killed off this past week. Oh, that's right. It's another thing I didn't watch. And the reason I didn't watch it was because Sammy beat up the gingerbread man costume. The promo was really, really great up until that point. Sammy's excelling as a heel by not being a heel right. right now. It's really good. And then he beat up the gingerbread man. They killed him.

Jim and a tag team bout. The Miz and Kit Wilson versus Danhausen and a partner to be named later. I mean, if this was again one of the pay-per-views of days gone by where you had

you know, seven or eight big, you know, matches and four or five of them at the top are really what you could consider big with stars and you had the little gimmick match, but we're getting five matches and this is one of them. Who do you think the surprise partner will be?

Do you think it'll be like Vince or maybe maybe Sina? Sina doesn't want to go away. Frank? Liza? you know what they would wake a lot of motherfuckers up if it was punk if punk just came out and fucking whip miss and kit both at about a minute and then danahousen covered them for the pen

then that would wake people up but it might get somebody to that figured well i could skip these shows well that wasn't boring maybe i need to fucking tune in but anything short of that I don't really see how I'm going to care. And Jim, on the topic of John Cena, before we get to the main event, he tweeted out yesterday as we are recording, It's official. I'm headed to WWE backlash. God damn. After months of planning...

I wonder if he even took his bags off his bus. After months of planning an effort, I'm so excited to break some history-making news. I can't promise it'll be perfect. but I can promise it will change the WWE experience for superstars and fans. See you live Saturday in Tampa or at home on the ESPN app.

And obviously he's been plugging the club WWE waiting list on TV and it's also selling Hondas. Busiest retirement in history for anybody. He hasn't missed a pay-per-view yet since every fucking show. It's so good to see all of you again since last month. But again, they're advertising now is what is he going to be, a ringside reporter,

and are they going to start giving people like Sina to the equivalent of Tony Kahn's big announcement? Turns out of Raw is moving to half an hour earlier. is it going to come down to this? I think already they're they're certainly ringing all of the juice out of Cedas fruit or whatever that simile is about this company.

What can the announcement be and that's exactly what they want us to think but is it going to be something worth what we were thinning? It'll change the experience for superstars and fans. we're instituting security fucking truck

yeah extra security we'll walk the fans in and the wrestlers out we'll see okay Sina announcement and finally Jim the main event Jesus Christ wait a wait a what's it that's it for the World Heavyweight Championship

Roman Reigns the champion versus his cousin Jacob Fattu you know, I think they're going to have a good match because they're motivated because they're family. It's a main event. Roman has a different enough style from the rest of the family that I believe that it will be different enough from Fatu that it can work and both guys can do their shit and be special rather than having this kind of bizarreo world Fatu versus other Fatu.

thing like they got with Solo. And the only problem is they ain't switching the belt. So that's why I'm, it, I mean, it almost has to end here because I don't think they're going to put the belt on Fatu anytime soon. So he's going to get beaten. He's not going to be able to do anything about it. so does that do anything for Fatu, even if they had had a longer bill to this

where they even did some kind of either had a match, an impromptu match on television where Fatu got a three count on him, but it didn't really count, or the title wasn't on the line, or even do some kind of fucking Samoan meetup on the beach and have some kind of fight

that potentially Fatu won in some fashion. to lead to the title being on the line. But he's going to get beat, and I don't think he's going to get any goddamn answer back for it either. Well, that's WWE backlash. It sounds really exciting. Lots of commercial breaks, I'm sure, if anyone needs to make something to eat or go to the bathroom.

Coming this weekend as we are recording. But, Jim, with that, we shall return right after this short commercial timeout. All right, we're back with more action. Jim, let's talk about some retro wrestling figures. They're piled up here on my desk. These are some of the latest and greatest independent toy efforts in creating the classic wrestling toy look.

Mostly Hasbro, but we'll start right now with one. I guess you could say it's LJN style from Latuni and their wrestling tune star series, it is Andre the Giant in the look of 1980s Hulk Hogan Rockin' Wrestling, the cartoon. That version of Andre the Giant in Ljian form from Latuni.

This is pretty cool. I have to say, it looks great. Apparently the next in the line is the macho man and Rick Flair, what they would look like if they were on, Hulk Hogan's Rock and Wrestling. What do you think of that? Taking wrestlers from that time period and associating them with the animation style of

Hulk Hogan's Rock and Wrestling? Well, yeah, that's a collector's dream, right? Because they obviously were somewhat stylized in the cartoon series, and so if you make a figure that looks like the actual person, it might not necessarily look like they looked in the series, but now if you get the various people... that were in the series, it looked like they were in the series. Well, then you'd have a series of those, wouldn't you? It's a heck of an idea.

I gotta give a lot to any credit. These are really cool. They look great. Check them out today. I think he also has Bring Home Alltheaction.com is one of his websites. Andre the Giant. Jim, let's talk some... For Andre, it should have been Bring Home All the Beer.com.

Jim, let's talk tag teams. Let's talk tag teams. Let's talk those tag teams. I have a set here. One of the most underrated tag teams of the 1980s. I don't believe you guys ever worked with them. But they were tag team champions in the WWE and had great matches everywhere,

won over fans everywhere. Of course, I'm talking about the jumping bomb angels. For the first time ever, in Hasbro figure form from title run toys, the jumping bomb angels. Oh, I dropped this one. She didn't jump, she fell. She fell, not jumped.

I can't believe that we were never booked against them. There's another of the great 1980s tag teams that we never got a chance to get in the ring with. Norio Tateno and Itzuki Yamazaki. And of course, we joked. They didn't get to the ring with the Midnight Express. Probably their most remembered matches here in the States, definitely. With the Glamour Girls, Judy Martin and Lelani Kai, Managed by Jimmy Hard at times.

Yes. And those are great matches. I know you're not a big fan of the modern women stuff, but those are great matches. Well, yes. And there was restraint being shown on everybody's part back then, even though the Japanese in-ring style was physical, been just like it's always been physical,

but it wasn't ridiculous. And when you had Judy and Lonnie, who are probably the two best American girls of working in the ring and most experienced, you know, they had great matches. And that's the, I'm not saying that just men's wrestling or just women's wrestling United States, everything has taken a turn for what it's become.

But if you go back and look at those Japanese girls, they would blow most of the guys away on the indie scene or the AEW. folks these days. Well, hopefully one of these days we can get a series of figures of Lelani and Judy, but here they are, the Jumping Bomb Angels, some title run toys. Upcoming toys include Mike McGurk, the ring announcer. And of course, the long-awaited Sergeant Buddy Lee Parker.

That's coming from title run toys. Oh, boy, that's going to be like the cabbage patch kid of wrestling figures. How do you feel about the idea of Sergeant Buddy Lee Parker getting a figure, but as just a one-off, not as part of the State Patrol? Well, I mean, there's a limit to how much plastic you want to waste, right? And I'm not, does anybody remember that Dale Veezy existed as a member of the State Patrol?

Does anybody remember the State Patrol? They basically remember Buddy Lee Parker because, and I'm not even knocking the guy, but let's face it, they remember him because he was the coach on some of the documentaries at the power plant because Jody liked him and let him run things. Well, he'll be in figure form. You could train your other figures coming soon from title run toys. Jim, the latest from Epic Toys.

Two tag team sets have just come out. Another underrated tag team you guys never worked with. Haku and Tama, the Islanders. Did you get to see much of them? somewhat not a ton again you know i watched limited amounts of w wf in the 80s because our worlds at that time were so far apart i had no reason to believe that any of these people would be potential opponents and but i've obviously know of and know and have seen lots of haku's work and of course we had a kind of a beastial tag team

accommodation with the barbarian and the warlord. It was kind of the same principle, but I have not seen tons of their stuff. They got together, then they turned heel, managed by Bobby Heenan, and of course famously stole Matilda. They ran away with Oh, now that's going too far. Well, they were heels. That's what you got to do. There they are, Hakua and Tama. It'd be nice to get a Tonga kid figure also to complete

whatever the hell it is I'm building here. Jim also in the tag team series from Epic Toys in the style and look, once again these are a Hasbro style, but the look of WrestleMania 3, the packaging and the actual wardrobe on the figures, the Killer Bees, Jumping Jim Brunzel and B, Brian Blair, they come with the Killer Bee jackets that they wore and also headbands that can come off their head

and there they go, and go back on their head. the killer bees, another tank team. The headbands come off the head when they do the drop kicks. That's very good. Jim Brunzel is really known for the drop kick more than Brian Blair, but... Well, he could get up off the ground every once in a while, too. But no, that actually, of everybody that we've mentioned, we would have had excellent matches with Brunzel and Blair. Now, in the WWF, I don't know whether they would have been featured or drawn any money or not, but the Midnight was exceptional working with young athletic baby faces

who could follow instructions and do all the spots and so technically we would have had wonderful matches with them. I think as far as money matches would have been the Heart Foundation. But

some of the better tag team matches would have been with the bees. I think the money matches would have been the Bulldogs. Well, and I forgot about the Bulldogs. But either of the Bulldogs of the Heart Foundation, we could have had good matches with, and they would have been featured enough that had been money matches,

or we could have had maybe even better matches with the bees, but they were a little... Oh, ring. Well, once again, great job from Epic Toys. That last Killer Beeset had the masks. These have the WrestleMania three outfits and look. Great job. Another tag team, one you know well.

I have two different. When does one come out? with the honey. Maybe that'll be the next variant. That'll be the next variant, I guess. Jim, guys, you know well, hawk and animal, the road warriors from wrestling heels and faces, zombie sailor. These are, I would say, 1988 road warriors.

The trunks and I'll ask you something about their trunks in a moment. And then most spectacularly on this figure are the shoulder pads, which are quite dangerous around children. What did you think, what is your favorite look of the road warriors? Like, you worked with them from 86, you know, on,

and you know, for the rest of their career, but you saw their earlier stuff too. What do you think is actually their best look and what are your thoughts on the shoulder pads? Oh, God. Well, we used to joke that nobody's going to try to cross-body you guys where you're wearing them shoulder pads.

I think, again, 86, 87, 88, when they were really cooking and they were on top and everything was working. That kind of, as they got the, you know, especially when they went to the WWF, they had a bigger budget or they had the, you know, the costume designers or whatever. And but I think just the classic Road Warriors look is what worked and that's when they were hottest, just the fucking black and pads and the regular face paint. and precious Paul with the fucking newspaper, and here we go. Do you like the road warriors running to the ring,

which is what they did before they had the shoulder pads? Or do you like them kind of stalking to the ring? Well, I think somewhat of a combination. They couldn't run with those goddamn things that had killed somebody. But seriously, they told her, no, no, be careful. But I think running, the running thing was a lot. lot was very ultimate warrior-ish and that it got people excited and it showed their intensity, but I don't think they had to do a full-on sprint.

However, some of the buildings were so fucking tight, like you mentioned, that they had to kind of ease their way in. I think something in the middle was probably the best. Coming out with purpose and hitting the ring so the heels could bail, but they didn't have to, God damn, because they couldn't slide under the ropes with the pads. either. Well, like I said, these figures look incredible and different shoulder pads, because obviously Hawk and Animal had different gear, so these look great. One thing Zombie Sailor did that's interesting, he painted the, you know, where the figure connects the legs and the torso.

He painted the lower torso a little bit, the color of the trunks, I guess to simulate the way the road warriors kind of wore their trunks pretty high up. It works. I mean, it looks all right. But what Actually, that's just, that's pubic hair. Okay, I don't think it's that. But what are your thoughts on the... Well, have you ever seen animal coming out of the shower? What are your thoughts on wearing the trunks up high, like the Road Warriors or I guess Bruno, Nicolive Olcoff?

It's a forgotten week of wrestling. It's a look that's gone. That's the thing. Some guys, the high-wasted trunks made them look better. And who was it? Jericho. I said Jericho, he doesn't need to go full Bobo Brazil, but he needs to get the waistband of his trucks up three or four inches.

And some guys were just more comfortable with that. It didn't really change their appearance either way, but it was just a personal preference. But that's, you know, now everybody kind of has the same type of athletic physique and they want to fucking wear as little as possible, especially the men. Well, again, those are from zombie sailor, and on the topic of tag teams and the road warriors and the powers of pain from Matt Maniacs. I think the website's nerd closet.

Matt Maniacs, that is what it is, the nerd closet, a stylized road warriors and powers of pain, they come with trading cards, much like the zombie sailor ones, not going with Hawks Joker look, I guess we can call it. they're going with the black face plane with the blue under the eyes what do you think what is your favorite look for road warrior hawk again i go for the stuff that he was doing it because there were subtle variations over a period of time no matter you know when it was but the the

the fucking reverse mohawk and the fucking standard face paint that he was doing in 86, 87, that was their classic look, and they monkeyed with it afterwards, but I always like that era. All right, and we also have the powers of pain in this set, or I'm not in this set. And also, sometimes it depended on Hawk's state of mind and chemical content of his blood as to how intricate he was wanting to get with his paint. Well, like I said, we have the road warriors, the powers of pain, these two sets from Matt Maniac's upcoming sets

Listen to this Jim Jimmy Valiant and the great Kabuki Oh An upcoming set That one is one I have on pre-rower Does Kabuki blow the mist And that would be hard to do I got a great mood of figure from Japan

Like a year ago, two years ago And you remove the head And it has a little filter And you're supposed to like add water And you push the head down And it sprays I mean water I guess you can make it

You know red water but still I don't know how it would really do good. I'm telling you, hey, they made that cabbage patch doll but actually ate shit. Did you see the TV special a hazardous history? The cabbage patch doll had a little fucking like a clothes ringer that when you stuck the piece of fake food in its mouth, it just took it on in and spit it out in its backpack.

But it was also eating children's fingers and hair and there was no way to turn it off or make it let go. Where'd you see this? I got to see this. Hazardous history with Henry Winkler. It's on... Oh, I heard about this. Yeah.

Yes. Yes. I'm old enough to remember all the shit that was dangerous that people used to do. But even I knew not to do it. Because that looks dangerous. I may have to check that out. Fucking around with the funds. Right, Jim.

And finally, let's talk about the latest toys from Hastel Toys. Power Town can't get anything over here. Hasdell Toys puts out a toy every day, it seems. Oh, by the way, the latest update real quick on Powertown, the Glob and original San Francisco toy company trademarks apparently have not been picked up by Power Town, and now Matt Cardona and his group are trying to pick them up, so we'll stay on top of this story and let you guys know what happens.

Jim from Hastel Toys, Gimmicks and... Nope, I did it again, grapplers and gimmicks. The first one I have here for the first time ever, Hasbro form Man Mountain Rock Man Mountain Rock one of the stars of the mid-90s WWF

What are your memories of Darrell Peterson or Max Payne? What was his name? Max Payne was going to ask because I couldn't remember what his real name was Darrell Peterson but he was Max Payne in the USWA and that was at the time

where Vince had hired Lawler and he brought Jerry Jared up and some of the, remember they gave Spellbinder a brief tryout up there, but some of the big guys that were in Memphis at the time or had been in Memphis, they brought up and Max Payne, I guess, was an early version of

or Man Mountain Rock was an early version of Elias or whatever, Van Hammer. I guess he was later than Van Hammer. He could really play the guitar, and he was a big guy, and Vince put those two things together. And he was a nice guy, but it didn't exactly go far, and it wasn't particularly that memorable. I first saw him in WCW in 93, and he had one of the worst looks I've ever seen on a wrestler. Like, just the outfit and the hair, like, just, it didn't look right, it looked cheap to me.

I know he was supposed to be like a heavy metal guy. but then he kind of found his place. He looked more like heavy aluminum at the time. But then he found his place with Cactus Jack. And they kind of worked well off each other for a brief period of time. They had that great brawl with the nasty boys. And then he was gone. And he came in his Man Mountain Rock.

This is a guy who trained in New Japan, but we never really got to see anything great. In America, he came in, he would play his WWF-shaped guitar. And I don't remember a single feud or any massive. of his. I remember squash matches, but I don't remember him ever doing anything. Wasn't there some story that he got in trouble because he shot a bunch of video of like the guys on the road? And then when he left, he released it and they flipped out. Oh, good Lord. That may have been him. He had like Louis Spicoli in the hallway, like stone looking for his room or whatever it was. Yeah. All right, well, Man Mountain Rock. Yeah. Good luck to you, Rock.

Jim also in Hasbro form from Hastel Toys. This is a pretty cool one. It's Tony Norris, otherwise known the fans as Ahmed Johnson. And this comes with red spikes from when he teamed with the Road Warriors at WrestleMania, but also they mirror the spikes that the Legion of Doom Hasbro figures from 1991 had. Ahmed Johnson with the Road Warriors. Any thoughts on this? I remember, I don't believe the...

The road warriors were all that pleased. It was like when he was even worse than when the Rocker Roll Express were so over and he dusted booked a six man and he wore the rock and roll bandannas tied and everything. But he always did that. He wore paint with the road warriors, et cetera. But the road wear is having this. And let's face it, Ahmed was not popular or particularly proficient in. pro wrestling.

So they had the six man, it was booked, and he was wearing the shit. I recall they weren't particularly that pleased. But yeah, he did that. That's one of the things that he did. And now you can add it to your collection, for those of you looking to mimic the WrestleMania stylings of Ahmed Johnson,

or Tony Norris. Jim, here's an interesting one. Does it come with, does it come with his phone number on the packaging where people can call him at a, room in the middle of the night. Oh, my God. Should we tell that story?

It's been a long time. We talk about Dennis Caruso every now and then, who was a great friend of mine, a great friend of yours, a longtime promoter in the Northeast, a character. He's a lot of the things that people say about him. He's also not a lot of things that people say about him. He's one of the more fascinating people. I'd say one time he was like Tony Soprano without the murders. That you know of.

Because right after, literally right after the Sopranos came out, the Sopranos came out, the Sopranos had just come out in 99, and I was at Dennis's apartment at the time. And on his refrigerator was a picture of him and James Gandalfini poolside by just hanging out. I can lounge chairs. He wasn't even that famous yet, Gandalfini. It was crazy. But anyway, nothing happened. Dennis had Ahmed booked on one of his shows.

And wasn't a story that Ahmed flew all the way there on the day. on the plane ticket the dentist had provided for him and was checked into the room at the hotel that Dennis had provided for him. But when they sent a ride to pick Ahmed up and take him over to the National Guard Army High School, whatever, it was one of the gopher guys in his car, right? I think it was Fred Rubinstein.

Even Fred Rubinstein, an attorney. He was a referee who during the day was like a union organizer for the MTA or something. and so I mean he didn't have a you know a fucking shitbox or whatever but it was a normal his personal car and Ahmed wouldn't get in it because it wasn't a limousine and he flatly refused to come to the event in the town in New Jersey that he was already there for unless they gave him a limousine so Dennis instead of sending him a limousine got in a ring at the show and he had what was there if this is one of Dennis's bigger shows,

he could have had 800, a thousand people there or whatever. But he, go ahead. In case you don't remember this part, let me just add it. I believe they handed out paper and pencils. Yes, yes, that's right. Because they wanted to make sure everybody had something to write it down, so they gave out paper and pencils in the crowd. And Dennis made the announcement that Ahmed Johnson was in town

but couldn't come to the show because he wouldn't get in the fucking car they sent unless he had a limousine. So here's his phone number over at the hotel and his room number if you want to call him and let him know what he thought about it. And he gave the number out. Did the people call all night?

Oh, he flipped. Amma flipped out, yeah. He did it to himself, though. Dennis did that also. I think that Abdullah, the butcher, Abdullah no showed him. And like Dennis got on the mic and said he was going to sue him. The fans have no idea what's going on

and Dennis is like, I'm going to sue his ass. Oh, anyway, Jim, a couple more figures. Someone who worked for Dennis and worked for you from Hastel Toys and a Hasbro form Balls Mahoney. Uh-huh. But more interesting to me here, Santa Claus.

In a black and red Santa Claus outfit, removable Santa hat with a sack. What are your thoughts on Santa Claus? Do you remember how Santa Claus came up? Yeah. Well, I had Balls Mahoney and Smoky Mountain Wrestling as Boo Bradley.

And then when we closed up or right before that, he was with us till the end. We closed up. He was from New Jersey. He's been friends with Candido for real. He'd worked for Dennis before. And

some way or another, in that 1996 year, we were able to get him a tryout, and somehow I don't know how it happened, but Vince wanted that was Christmas time of 96 coming up on Christmas, and Vince wanted

an evil Santa Claus. And wasn't it DiBiase that presented him? This is not Santa Claus, this is Santa Claus. That's right. It didn't even make sense to Bruce. Bruce was at Bruce was giving up on trying to explain it to me. But the thing is that Boo came at, Boo.

Boo was a big kid and he was a wonderful guy if you got to know him or had the time to spend to get to know him or whatever. But he could come off as somewhat like a kid, a hyperactive kid on sugar, to people and he was a little high maintenance. But he also, as I recall, came in the locker room or went to catering and ate a big meal and was patting everybody on the back

like he'd known him for 100 years and then did he go to sleep? It took a nap, not like passed out drug down, just decided he'd take a fucking nap in the goddamn locker room, his first day, whatever. The gimmick didn't get over and he didn't make an impression that they wanted to

try something else with it. I mean, the gimmick didn't have a chance past Christmas season. Of course not. I don't know that it made, did it make it to Christmas? I don't know, I think it was what, one or two episodes? Two episodes are you? Yeah, it didn't take Santa long

to fly around the world. Once again, we can revisit this wonderful wrestling moment, pastel toys, grapplers and gimmicks, Santa Claus. And finally, Jim, what's close? out two figures, one person. The new Bastion Booger figure from Hastel Tarnes in the Hasbro form has attachable pizza slice up, and there goes the rotissory chicken and a chicken that you can

attach to his hands. Because obviously he was known for holding up rotissory chicken. So this one is pretty cool, but the real winner for me. One of my favorite short-term gimmicks ever that I wish we could have gotten to see this play out. Friar Ferguson, who for those you don't remember, was a drunk monk. It was Mike Shaw before Bastion Bougar. He was dressed like a monk and he would come out to the ring and drink wine from his, whatever the thing is that people carry around.

The wine bag. The wine bag. The wine bag with the horn thing, yeah. And then he would sit on his opponent and beat. them and he got like a really nice push on raw for like two weeks and then Vince decided I guess he didn't want to piss off the friars I don't know well the friars club had a real big fucking lobby at the time no um and poor again Mike Shaw created a stir just uh he was over with the the observer readers of 1987 88 the limited amount of smart

fan tape traders that there were in the country, loved Mike Shaw in Calgary as Mocking Singh, and you've seen all the tapes, Brian, I'm sure. It was him and Owen. When Owen first broke in, it was those matches that really people noticed them. Well, and that's another thing. He was working with a rookie Owen Hart,

but it was such a contrast because here's Owen 200 pounds doing the flying moves, and here's this big 300-something-pound fat-bearded guy. that became a fake what was the term that was because they always in Calgary and in Canada and at Western Canada they had a lot of the

the Sikhs is that it or the the turban wearing people I'm not even trying to be disrespectful here but Mokkin Singh was him trying to be one of those and get a heat by appropriating as someone else's fucking

heritage. But remember in Calgary, they had all kind of like the tag team was Karachi vice and all that of the fit. Yeah. And nevertheless, the Vietnam Express. Yeah, the Viet Cong Express. They had a, but

Hase was a member of that, wasn't he? That's right. Or was it? Good Lord. How do I even remember that? Point being, he created a big stir and the people love to see those tapes. But WCW heard about about him, of course, in their infinite wisdom.

And Jim Ross was in on this, and I have to say he was full-throatedly endorsing the gimmick. I can't fucking cover for him. They brought Mocken Singh this fucking evil heel with these good promos that he was doing into WCW as fucking Norman the goddamn lunatic. and he was wearing the mental patients outfit and supposed to be a crazy heel. But then Jim Hurd saw him and said, well, he'd be great for the kids.

So they made him a mighty Igor, but he didn't do that as well as Boo Bradley. And then when Oli started booking, he made him a truck driver. Remember trucker Norman? That's right. And then trucker Norman became friends with the juicer. And then they found out that Art Bar had been on trial for rape or whatever it was,

and they got rid of him, and that was kind of the end of Norman right around then, too. Yeah. So he got fucked too. I always think about 89, though, that match with Brian Pilman, that was the first time I remember seeing him as a kid. And it was great. And, you know, again, Pilman was another Calgary guy. He could work with, like, smaller, lightweight wrestlers. He could do good stuff.

He had good matches. And he could cut a promo if you didn't make him a mental, patient or a goddamn imbecile. But the point is, that's a guy who presentation had damaged from the reason why people initially wanted to hire him to begin with, and then

they changed shit. So then Vince sees him and he's an obese, corpulent, disgusting-looking person. So when Friar Ferguson, and that was before I got there, so I don't know whether they had to

quit that because the idea of the drunk monk or whatever but that was another Vince McMahon bastion booger that was Vince all the way that you can't blame Bruce or Pat or anybody because Vince had that goddamn obsession with fart jokes fart noises just the fat people and so he had Bastion Bugger wearing is revealing an ugly outfit to show his folds and roll as they could, and then his entrance music was farts and belches.

I'm not making this up. And then he picked his nose and would scratch his ass or whatever. And they used that for a while because it was Vince's thing. Nobody involved. Nobody working with him wanted to work with it. He didn't want to do it. We didn't want to book it. Vince liked.

I say we. I started with the company. I wasn't on the booking team at that point, but nobody really was in favor of that. I've always been a Friar Ferguson fan, but there it is retro figures. And of course, Jim, Jim Cornett and a Midnight Express figure

is available right now at Jim Cornett.com. And the heavenly bodies as well. Don't forget about them too. And each of them comes with an autographed photo as well, you can go to Jim Cornett.com and look at the various packages. You might even be able to pick up one of the tag team sets with the autographed photo and the souvenir color book. You got that going for you at Jimcornet.com.

Once again, Jimcornet.com, but you know, a lot of the different wrestling toy companies and a lot of other companies out there, like even us, when they need someone to power their online store, when they need someone to manage their sales, they turn to the good trusted people at Shopify. Well, that's right, and it's simply because of that purple button, because every time somebody's punching that purple shop pay button, somebody else is getting paid.

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wasn't as bad as I thought you may get but let's move on here Jim wait a minute oops was that a fart that was a special sound I created on the organ for last a special sound I created with my organ

it sounds like a fart to me all right well why don't we play some guest to program here get you at a good word all right guest the program is where we go through programs from my collection, I quiz Jim on all the information he can give us. Well, I give him information. I give him the card. This is awful. I stink. Let's go to Jim. Jim, anything you want to say about this. Well, what you're going to do, Brian, is you are going to read me the lineup from one of the programs in your massive collection. And I, in my intelligent and learned and borderline

mystical way, will divine the year and the location of that program without having to be a lot of having seen said same before. This is indeed right. That is it. That is right. All right, Jim, this first card here, the first bout. Olaf Olson versus Lewis Thes. One fall 30 minute time.

The second bout. Wait a minute. Now, Olaf, would that be Oli Olson as he later became known? I wonder? I am not certain, so I can't say. But it could be. I thought the same thing. There's in the opening match.

So we're in a modern, modern time frame. The second bout, Lou Plummer versus Bobby Bruns, one fall 30-minute time limit. Third bout, Hans Bauer versus Ray Steele, one-fall 30-minute time limit. The semi-final, again one-fall 30-minute, Jim McMillan versus Jack Smith, and finally Jim, Jim, the main event for the World Heavyweight Wrestling Championship. Jim Lundas, the champion, versus Orville Brown. Oh, boy. Okay, well, obviously it was a tip-off with Thess in the opening match

that we've gone back in time somewhat. Bobby Bruns was the Booker and matchmaker for the Midwest for years and years. he worked in the Kansas City territory, St. Louis territory. He's also the guy that basically transplanted American pro wrestling to Japan with the first tour. Lou Plummer was, golly, a journeyman of the time. I don't know who Hans Bauer was, but Ray Steele was one of Fez's idols, a former world champion. and a guy said that he learned a lot from, who was also based out of the Midwest St. Louis Market,

Jim McMillan, another one of the big name old timers, Mr. Smith, I'm not aware of. But with the World Heavyweight Championship being on the line with Londos and Orville Brown, Orville Brown was the first NWA champion when the NWA was formed, but he had the car wreck and was put out of action, and that's when Thes took over in 48. And with Landoz being the champion at this point,

we're, I want to say this is probably St. Louis. I don't know where you would have got a program from Kansas City from this time period. Should we say this is St. Louis? said I think this would have to be at minimum 1935 that's pretty good

June 5th 1935 Navenfield the future Tiger Stadium Detroit Michigan well I got the year but not to say I wouldn't even have known that that field existed and I just Tiger Stadium you know that

and well I will yes but I wouldn't have known the name of it before but I I'm going to on Thess, Bruns, Ray Steele, and Orville Brown being on the same card, I was sure it had to be Missouri of some description. The program is 10 cents,

and on the back it has an ad for, let the ride decide. You can't judge a car on the sales room floor. New Plymouth's, now only $510. So there you go. Get a Plymouth in Detroit,

$510. All right. Jim, our next one here. I'll give you an easy one. I'll give you a layup. The opening contest, Wayne Cowan versus Ted Oates.

The second contest, Jack Armstrong and the Crusader versus Afo and Sika Anna Wai. The third bout, the kangaroos, Sir Norman Charles and Lord Jonathan Bull

versus El Mongol and Ray Candy. We have an intermission, followed by Assassin Number 2 and the Super Gladiator versus Gito and Bolo Mongol. We have two main events, the first one, main event Brass Nucks Rules, Ox Baker and the Missouri Mallor, versus Ernie Ladd and Ron Pritchard,

an intermission and then the other main event Thunderbolt Patterson versus the I was wondering when he'd come up versus the executioner mystery wrestler managed by Rock Hunter the special referee the magnificent Zulu

oh okay well we are obviously in Georgia and we are obviously looking at an Anguncle promotion. Going down the list of talent, Wayne Cowan would later become Dutch Mantel.

Ted Oates was the brother of Jerry Oates. The Oates brothers were from Columbus, Georgia. They were Georgia mainstays for years. Afa and Sika, because they are being billed by their names on Hawaii, this was also probably the first, I would say the first territory they went to when they were broken in potentially after San Francisco. And it's not alpha.

It's afo. Well, it's afo. But that's an awful mistake. Jack Armstrong and who was his partner? Jack Armstrong and the Crusader. The Crusader. I'm trying to remember. Jack Armstrong was this wild.

a wild-haired fellow that worked in the South as a heel for a period of time. But the crusader was not Dewey Robertson, obviously. That was a different run in Canada, but he may have just been a local masked guy. The Royal Kangaroos, Norman Frederick Charles III and Lord Jonathan Boyd, were not the fabulous kangaroos, Al Costello and Don Kent, or earlier Al Costello and Roy Heffernan. Norman and Boyd were from New Zealand and when they were the sheep herders and from Australia when they were the Royal Kangaroos.

But against El Mongol and Ray Candy, obviously El Mongol had been a baby face in Georgia for years in the 60s and came back to work for Anguncle and Ray Candy was a fairly well-liked baby face for Anne Gronk. uncle. The Mongols, they had more Mongols and they also had Samoans. She was reaching for her undercard with the Assassin 2 and a Super Gladiator. Ox Baker and the Missouri Mallor against Ernie Ladd and Ron Pritchard. This was just because at the time, Ernie would do anything he wanted to do. Ox was not working at the time in an NWA territory that would prevent him from going to

Georgia working for the opposition and in Thunderbolt was the guy for Gunkel in Atlanta and I don't know who the executioner was but Rock Hunter was managing for her at the time and the referee being the magnificent Zulu another guy they wanted as many black talents as they could get on the card

because that was the audience that they were trying to take away from the established office and Zulu couldn't fucking wrestle where the shits. They made him a referee because he looked great. Having said that, this would have to be late 1972 or early 1973

and Gunkel, Atlanta, Georgia. We are in Atlanta, Georgia, at the city auditorium. For 35 cents, you would get the program to this All-South Wrestling Alliance show, Tuesday, March 26th, 1974. Oh, shit. Wait a minute. Dutch was still

Wayne Cowan in 1974. And he's bald, it appears. You know what? I bet they did a hair match with him about that time when he was, was he not working in Alabama also at that time.

Just probably getting a better spot. I don't know. But anyway, well, then in that case, I was 12 to 18 months off, but I thought it would be 73 at latest because he was Dutch Mantel by, actually he was Chris Gallagher by 1974, and then he was Dutch Mantel and for a period of time Dutch Bass. All right, I was at right place, wrong time. Well, let me give you a hard one now.

Special opening event. Jack Peasick versus Bob Managoff, one fall 20-minute time limit. A special added attraction, Rocky Hamilton versus Dan Miller, one fall 30 minutes. The semi-final, Pamparoferpo versus Cowboy Bob Ellis, Jesus. Two out of three falls 45 minute time limit and finally the main event

two out of three falls one hour time limit Dick the Bruiser versus the Sheik. Okay, well when you first said Jack Pasek and Bobby Manigoff I thought we were back in the 30s and then you said

Rocky Hamilton against Dan Miller and I thought well it can't be Danny Miller Bill Miller's brother because he wasn't around in the 30s and then you hit me with Furpo and Ellis and in Bruiser and Sheik. The only way that Jack Pasek was on a card that was main evented by Dick the Bruiser and the Sheik is if this was Omaha, Nebraska. And in that case, it explains why Jack Pasek would have still been around and Bobby

Managoff was still barely wrestling. because what would he have been by this point? Because this is, Furpo wouldn't be Furpo. When he first came to this country, he was the missing link. He was, was Ivan the Great or Ivan the Terrible in some places

until he settled into Pampero Furpo. Bob Ellis until the late 50s and Bruiser and Shee. Omaha, Nebraska. and it would be 1961. That's the most impressive thing.

May 31, 1961, the promoter, Bill Hawkins, the matchmaker, Joe Dusick, Sioux City, Iowa at the Sioux City auditorium. And this is

the final wrestling card of our 1960-1961 season. The 1961-1962 season will open in September. Save my reputation a little bit by explaining to the people that with the matchmaker and etc. that Sioux City, Iowa was a spot show offshoot of the Omaha territory. I gave you this one.

I'm surprised you even got to Omaha because I thought Dick the Brewzer and the Sheik would throw you off, but two out of three falls is kind of nuts. The opening matches from another decade. Yeah, the opening match could be from the fucking 40s or the 30s. And then, but it, this was before Sheik bought Detroit, obviously. Bruiser was the bigger star. Furpo and Ellis were over for Barnett around this same time period, but I knew it

wasn't Indianapolis because there's no way that Jack Pasek was working in in the inapolis in the opening match in the last hundred years. So, yeah. Here's an interesting thing on the cover here. Remember, Ali Pasha, who collapsed and died as a result of injuries to his heart after appearing on a televised wrestling match in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Saturday, May 20th, appeared in Sioux City a few seasons back. Just a few weeks ago, Pasha wrestled Cowboy Bob.

So this is right when Ali Pasha died. And there you go. What are your thoughts on seasonal wrestling? This is from May. So they're about to go June, July, August, no wrestling. I don't know if they had any AC, that may be part of the issue. But what are your thoughts on seasonal wrestling? Well, in some cases, and again, before the modern territories and the modern television

syndication schedules were set up, they, some of the towns, some of the people, promoters did that, whether it was because there was no air conditioning in the building in the summer and people complained or didn't want to come, or whether it was, in some cases, Vern didn't run a lot of his towns in the summertime because people were out at the lakes and everything, because in that part of the country, it was so horribly cold from October through May that people went out in the summer. But in a, in the southern territories, in Memphis, sometimes the summer was the hottest period of time, no pun intended, for business.

And they didn't care whether there was air conditioning or not. St. Louis used to do a season where Muchnick would run, much like this, through May and then shut down June, July, and August, and even bring in other territories, television on some periods to show during the summer and then start back again in the fall, but then they'd run every two or every three weeks. So it was something that some of the old-time markets and promoters did before the, then when the modern territories formed, you were either paying something for television or at least running a television in all of your markets every goddamn way.

week so why closed down for three months that that tradition in st louis started before there was even television because sam mushnick liked baseball was that well yeah that but that's part of it but i mean that tradition even came before they had television there it was the seasonal aspects so you know it was harder when when you've got tv going every week and you're supposed to keep these towns going to keep them programmed. And the cards were much less intricately booked in those days than they were in the modern territory days. You had to keep shit going or what of your main markets would miss a fucking three-month

program. When you started managing in 82, what percentage of the buildings you worked in for the next two, three years didn't have AC? Memphis, the Mid-South Coliseum had AC. obviously the Louisville Gardens did Evansville Coliseum didn't Thursday the spot shows or Rupp Arena in Lexington which had the state of the art everything where you might be in peak

in Indiana in a National Guard Army it was 110 fucking degrees they didn't have if there was air conditioning in the fairgrounds in Nashville they did a good job of disguising it I don't remember feeling it Jackson the Coliseum had air conditioning, but then again, places like Jonesboro on Saturday nights or other spot shows wouldn't. And with Watts,

since he was running the big arena in most of the markets, most of the regular towns had air conditioning, but goddamn the spot shows were ugly in Louisiana. So it just depended, but in the 80s, it depended on the territory you were in and the

level of buildings they were running, but many of the spot shows almost everywhere were airless. It wasn't standard. You were running high school gyms that were built in the 50s and 60s in the early 80s, and it certainly wasn't standard back then. It's one of the things when people say Vince McMahon got wrestling out of the smoky arenas. It's because they turned the air on. They started blowing the smoke.

All right, well, let's get at least one more program here, Jim. All righty. The opening bout, Australian tag team match one fall 20 minute time limit. Doug Vines and Paul Christie versus Mike Dagendorf and Angelo Pafo. The second match, one fall 20 minute time limit, Scott Casey versus Tiger Conway Jr. Oh, okay. The third bout, Australian tag team match one fall 20 minute time limit. Hans Schroeder and Victor Rivera versus Dominic Danucci.

Okay. And Roberto Soto. Now we're somewhere in the twilight zone. The next match, one fall 20-minute time limit. Sweet brown sugar versus Bobby Jaggers. An added attraction, one fall 30-minute time limit for the ICW World title, Randy Savage, ICW World Champion, versus Big Boy Williams. Jim, a special attraction, one fall 30-minute time limit.

Bob Sweetan, noted dirtbag, versus Tully Blanchard. The semi-final match, Australian tag team match, one-fall, one-hour time limit. King Kong Brody and Spike Huber versus Nikolai Volkov and Professor Toru Tanaka and finally Jim the main event a two-ring 20-man battle royal

20 wrestlers from this card go into the same ring at once each man is on his own you know the rest of the rules and a winner gets a trophy and that's the card. Okay, I think you have pulled some shenanigans on me here. I'm calling shenanigans.

When you said Doug Vines and Paul Christie against Mike Dogendorf and Angelo Poffo, I'm like, okay, this is an ICW show. Doug Vines was a guy from, God, he may have been from here in Kentucky or else was Tennessee, but he and Jeff Sword were a, the devil's duo, they were a tag team for the Pafos. Paul Christie worked for Phil Golden's All-Star wrestling with Angelo Pafo in the early

70s and had been a long mainstay of Brewers' territory and worked in the Midwest a lot but also came back and worked for the Pafos in the closing days of their promotion, as did Mike Dogendorf and of course Angelo Pafo himself.

But then you give me Scott Casey and Tiger Conway Jr. that strayed out of the San Antonio territory, Southwest Wrestling. I'm thinking, okay, there was, when Angelo was starting to close down, there was some distribution

of some of his talent. Some people did go to San Antonio. But then you hit me with Hans Schroeder, who I knew him in Tennessee in like 78. We worked with him in Mid-South in 84. And Victor

Rivera who was a top star for the Los Angeles territory in the early 70s and the WWWF, along with Dominic Danucci and Roberto Soto. But then you give me Sweet Brown Sugar and Bobby Jaggers, and Sweet Brown Sugar was Skip Young at that point. That takes me back to San Antonio. Then you give me the ICW title with Randy Savage defending his father's championship against Big Boy Williams.

who was a Steve Kyle type of looking guy, like normal height but really stocky and kind of like the Mighty Igor gimmick and just that they'd trained and broken in in the early 80s. And then you give me Bob Sweet Dan and Tully Blanchard were back in San Antonio. And then you give me Nikolai Volkov

and who was it? Professor Toru Tanaka. Nikolai Volkov and Tomah. Tanaka against Bruiser Brody and Spike Huber and then the dawn came. Because even if Nikolai was working approximately around this period of time in Louisiana, we wouldn't have come in there yet. Professor, but he wasn't working for the WWF yet. Brody was known for taking international bookings wherever he'd like to the promoter.

And why would Spike Huber be there? Because they needed somebody to sell and give Brody the tag. And he'd be close living in Indianapolis if this card was in St. Louis. And if this card was one of the efforts by Larry Matazick to put his own promotion, together after he had left the Central States promotion, Bob Geigel and Bob Brown and those guys who he felt in the aftermath of Sam Muchnick's retirement had sent St. Louis wrestling into the shitter and he had Brody ready to be his top star because they were close friends and he could get talent not only from Joe Blanchard in San Antonio but also he could fill out some of his

cards with the opposition promotion, the ICW, the Pafos were running because he was operating outside the auspices of the NWA. And that's also where Spike Huber came in because Spike was Bruiser's son-in-law and he lived in Indianapolis. So this is St. Louis with a Larry Matazick promotion in 1983. Oh, what a wonderful way to end. A unique night of wrestling, Friday, July 22nd, 1983, the air-conditioned checker dome, St. Louis, Missouri.

Boom goes a dynamite, baby. This is the next card after the one Blackjack Mulligan no-showed, and I believe the story that has been believed, at least, is that Blackjack Mulligan may have accepted an offer from the NWA to no-show. The event, but in here does a couple things about it. Mulligan faces suspension. Blackjack Mulligan, who did not appear for a scheduled bout with King Kong Brody at the Checker Dome June 18th, may be facing suspension in the state of Missouri.

A request has been made for Mulligan to furnished documentation of the accident, which supposedly caused him to miss the match. It is possible he may be suspended until he makes good to date, for greater St. Louis wrestling enterprises. What do you think of that? Well, that was a nice way of putting him on notice that we would not be brooking anymore of his foolishness. Here from Larry Matasick, it says

the crowd at the Checker Dome was enthusiastic and understanding, especially considering the absence of Blackjack McGilligan, a telephone call at 3 p.m. that day informed us Mulligan was allegedly in an automobile accident, so announcements were made immediately that Mulligan would not appear later information has led to some confusion

concerning the incident and the office of athletics the state of Missouri is looking into the situation and basically any time that a promoter used the word allegedly in talking about a wreck that prevented one of the guys from making the show and being on the card that was advertised That means he didn't fucking believe it.

And I believe Blackjack Mulligan is working a pretty full schedule in Florida in 83, and I don't remember him missing time for some accident. Channel 30 lands Larry and Mickey, as this edition went to press Greater St. Louis Wrestling Enterprises, and KDNL TV, Channel 30, reached an agreement which will bring the return to television of Larry Madisick and Mickey Garagiola as commentators for an all-new wrestling show. More details are expected soon, but the big news is that a St. Louis tradition is being reborn.

Larry and Mickey are back with wrestling on Channel 30, Saturday at 5 p.m., starting August 6th. And see, that's Sam Muchdick retired January 1st of 1982 to the record attendance that St. Louis ever had. and a year and a half later, the old St. Louis office, the old St. Louis office's business is so bad. Larry Matazick has left. He's trying to run an independent and getting opposition TV.

The original office is doing the shits. And Vince is going to come in by the end of the year and swoop in and take KPLR away. and he tried to make a deal with Larry Matazick to be allegedly partners. Well, he was pushed into it. The station insisted because they wanted to work with Larry and Vince said, sure, I'll work with him.

We'll be partners. And didn't happen at all. Because once Vince got in on Larry's name, then he double-crossed Larry and gave, well, you can do this or you can do nothing. Remember, he launched wrestling at the chase. When he went national, the first thing he did was go to St. Louis and relaunched wrestling at the chase with his guys.

But that goes to show you. that sometimes it's not the star that you can't lose. It's the man behind the company, the man behind the promotion. When Sam Mutchnik retired, they retired to a strong business, and the biggest crowd that the office had ever drawn. And two years later, the goddamn office is out of business. They've had independence try to start up. and now Vince has strong-armed his way in.

And then Crockett started trying to run St. Louis to help out the NWA cause. And I, again, remember I've talked about when we went there in 85 and 86, not only for the old St. Louis office, it was on its last legs, but then for Crockett, it was fucking dreary. That, just that simple of a thing. Think about it. if if Houston wrestling had lost any of its top stars, it would have probably still gone on.

But what if it had lost Paul Bosch? What if Mid-South had lost Bill Watts? The anomaly to this is, what if the Carolinas had lost Jim Crockett Jr.? Well, then David would have took over. Some places, the fucking promoting, was everything in some places it could still go on. Well, that was guest to program.

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While they're hanging off your earlobes All right, Jim, here we are in the future. And before we wrap things up, I thought we're going to have time to get to some questions, but some major news as we are recording right now. This morning word came out at Ted Turner, the founder of TBS, TNT, Cartoon Network, CNN, the Goodwill Games, Captain Planet, and so many other things, former owner of the... All of your home movies, if you've been born in the last 40 years, he's had a hand in everything.

Well, he has passed away this morning, I believe, 87 years old. Let's talk a little bit about Ted Turner, who, you know, you can talk a lot about his incredible business success and his incredible success even in sports, whether it was the America's Cup or, of course, owning the Atlanta Braves, although not managing them. That didn't work out too well. But when it comes to wrestling, I tweeted this out earlier because it was my first thought. He is someone who was always a friend of wrestling, and also he understood the importance of wrestling and the wrestling audience from the very beginning. And I know it was a network and a business, WTCG, and then WTG. And and WTBS and then the Super Station and everything else he had. But in a lot of ways, TBS, to me, always felt like it was programmed by Ted.

You know when I was growing up? Yeah. He'd be watching The Braves and Andy Griffith and wrestling and that'd be commercials for Credence and Alabama. Like, this is what Ted would be watching. Let's talk about Ted Turner a little bit. Well, and by the way, 87 years old, who says you can't have fun all your life and still live to be an old person?

Ted Turner, to me I told you this before we went on the air, is he's one of the last, a real human being could become a fucking billionaire and wasn't just an asshole in some giant corporation until he became, unfortunately, too big for his own good and became a giant corporation. But he started with his father's billboard. company. Because he got kicked out of college. That was a story for having a woman in his fucking dorm room back in those days when

you didn't do that type of thing. And he went to college. It was brown, right, with Anguncle, or the future Anguncle, which is he was going to come in handy later on. But he made enough money with his father's billboard business, which wasn't a gold mine, to buy this little independent. Pennant Station in Atlanta, WTCG Channel 17, when there was only three networks and they were already taken.

And from that, you know, 10 years later, he owns the Atlanta Hawks and the Atlanta Braves. But again, all of the sports financials have changed in the last almost 50 years. And it wasn't like the Hawks or the Braves were goddamn peach of their respect. leagues either, but because then he had the TV station, and then he's smart enough to get on satellite so early, that he becomes one of the earliest and the best-known super stations. Now, it was what he did really with his sports teams that kind of set to pattern for the wrestling program, because, well, you're a baseball fan, and I'm not particularly involved in any of them, but the Atlanta Braves were not

a goddamn major baseball team in the early 70s, right? They were a major league team. They weren't a major league team, but it wasn't like they were kicking a shit out of the Yankees and you'd see what I'm saying. In a different league, but no, they had some rough years and of course Henry Aaron had retired.

They had some rough years. Ted Turner, of course, made himself the manager at one point, and then I believe the league said that owners are not allowed. to make themselves managers because of Ted Turner. But it took a long time, but before they got good,

and they got real good. I mean, if you look at the early 90s, as a fan from the National League East, they became brutal to play against, and they always won. When they were still okay, he made them America's team. He just branded them America's team,

and people went with it. He had the network. He had the team. See, he wasn't having to pay goddamn, these hundreds of millions of dollars in rights fees for NBA or Major League Baseball or whatever that it exists today. And he was able to, again, he goes from a billboard company to an independent TV station, then getting on cable and getting a wider reach, and then buying the sports teams.

And then he, but he recognized that what built his television station, which, was the key to pretty much almost everything else. And he said it publicly. Andy Griffith reruns by baseball team and wrestling. And that's why he always, and the wrestling was on his station from well before the baseball was. And it always got ratings for him, whether he was a local station or whether in selling the advertising or when he got on cable, we've talked about that all the wrestling fans, you know,

fought to try to get cable as soon as it came in their markets so they could get the Channel 17 wrestling show. And of course, when he had WTCG, Channel 17, and he had wrestling, in 1972 was when the big breakup happened, he gave both promotions, the NWA promotion and the Ann Gungle-led Outlaw

promotion, TV time back-to-back on Saturday nights, which is why the Saturday night show was two hours. It was that reason because it was a one hour show and it became two hours because there were two different shows and then after the war ended, it became one show for two hours. Well, and here live Atlanta wrestling from the studios of Channel 11 with Ed Capril

had been a thing in Atlanta through the 60s. And I think it was Saturdays at like five or six o'clock and live from the TV studio or whatever, and they would, you know, just plug the local Atlanta City auditorium matches. But then right before the split is when they moved, I think it was early 72, somewhere around there. I don't know, I don't remember if I know the story. And like I said, I ought to read Jody Hamilton's book again

because I think I mentioned this on a show a few months ago. why they switched. The old story was, the old rumor was that the TV station got mad at him because Mario Galento did an angle where he chased a fucking assassins around a studio with a double barrel shotgun.

But the timing doesn't really match up. The angle does. Well, yeah, the angle, the angle is perfect. That's why it's so believable. But point being, around in the early 70s, 72-ish, they had just made the move to Channel 17, and it may be because all the other stations

were network stations at the time. They were getting preempted or news, whatever the case. Nevertheless, when they were established or just getting established on TBS or on WTCG is when the split happened between Ann Gunkel representing her deceased husband, Ray, and the rest of the office. and the TV contract was in the name of, you know, the company that had at the

whatever they were incorporated as, as ABC booking. ABC booking, yeah. So that's when Anne Gunkel went and pleaded to her old college chum. You know, Ted Turner, hey, you know, look at what's happened to me. And that's why he gave her the hour following. So the two offices had, it was a different product completely, but they were back to back, six to eight or whatever on Saturday night. But again, the ratings bore him out, but he always, he had an affection for the business. He was a Southern guy.

I mean, you know, it was more ingrained in the culture back then at that point. But there were crucial instances, and that wouldn't be. the last one where he played a part in keeping a wrestling promotion alive to do things another day. And there were tales of like the old studio before the one that you would have worked in. I believe it was a different studio. Like Ted Turner would be like in the catwalk watching the wrestling, like when it was happening. Like he just wanted to watch it. And he may not have been a hardcore fan, but he knew who the stars were.

and he knew how important it was. You know, if you look at everything to happen in 84 and 85, Vince McMahon takes over Georgia Championship Wrestling, takes over the TV time slot on Ted Turner's network. So now they have to have a relationship. And then... Which never did really get off on a good, strong foot, did it? Well, again, I think Vince McMahon, to me,

has always had some sort of insecurity when it came to Ted Turner. And it seemed to be a one-way thing because I don't think Ted Turner gave a shit. Ted Turner didn't give a shit. He didn't give a shit. And that was the thing is Ted Turner was like the cool billionaire that fucking went out drunk on his boat and fuck Jane Fonda and different movie stars. And Vince was the fucking insecure, abused child from North Carolina was trying to get even with the world. Yeah. And if you look at everything, what happened?

Vince McMahon's story is that Ted Turner wanted to buy a piece of WWF. Vince McMahon said, I'm not looking for partners and the relationship fell apart. The television ratings were a different story because the television ratings fell apart. The ratings from the Georgia Championship Wrestling show with Gordon Solie were better than Vince McMahon's. It was a different show. Ted Turner got mad because they weren't filming in the studio, which was part of the deal. so eventually they did.

The fans flooded the switchboard at TBS back when they had such a thing and say, where's our Gordon Soli wrestling? And by the way, and he gave it to them. And that's when Ole Anderson got his Saturday morning show, even though Vince McMahon had Saturday night, all of a sudden it was a new show Saturday morning

with Gordon Solie and Oli Anderson. But see, that's the last time the switch, the war of 72 through 74, Ed Capril had been the guy that people identified with. But when the split came, he went with Gunkel, and that's when the NWA territories and Eddie Graham was one state away, Georgia and Florida. So he provided most of the talent. That's when Gordon Solie, who'd been announcing in Florida for ages, started doing the Georgia show. But because that was a couple of years before they got on early cable, everybody just thought that Gordon Soli had built Atlanta, Georgia, around him.

But by that point, 12 years later, everybody identified there, this is our Gordon Soli wrestling. We want this. And they went berserk. And it just, it wasn't the style. It's two different things. And as we've talked about, in the territory days, the people were only going to take what they were accustomed to. And that was Rasslin, not WWF. And Gordon Solie had always said that

Vince McMahon tried to hire him around this period of time, and he wouldn't go against the NWA and Eddie Graham and all the relationships he had. He'd been working for Eddie Graham that point, 25 years. But Vince McMahon was becoming a headache. Vince McMahon's ratings on TBS were not as good as the previous companies. He didn't want to tape in a studio. Finally, reluctantly, he did. He sent Corrilla Monsoon down to host TBS wrestling. And then Jim Crocka Jr. buys the time slot, brokered by Jim Barnett for a million dollars. Allegedly Vince McMahon tells him, you're going to choke on this million. I've never had a deal end where I said something like that to someone.

Yeah, yeah. It must have been a great deal. But if that hadn't worked out, Ted Turner was ready. The story goes, you may know it. To be Bill Watts's partner. They were airing Mid-South months behind. you were on some of those shows on TBS and the ratings went through the roof

was the highest rated show on cable television I think the as well as a matter of fact the I can't and if Jim Ross was here he could tell you the story of exactly how that they picked up Mid-South for Sunday afternoons but I was sitting in as a matter of that's the thing I was sitting in Dallas watching Mid-South wrestling on cable

on TBS on Sunday afternoons going, Newman, left too soon, right? I want to be on TBS. But nevertheless, so it was the WWF program on Saturday nights, only on Saturday mornings and Watts on Sunday afternoons, and the Mid-South program was doing the highest numbers of all of them, and was at one point.

and this was 1985, so cable ratings were still, the number of homes available was nothing like the broadcast, but it was the highest rated show on cable television for a few months there. And as you said, Watson Turner were going to do something together because, just because it was, Turner could see another great wrestling show opportunity, whereas Oli's was dying because it was seven, 30 Saturday morning and what the fuck.

And he knew Vince was going to go. And if Vince didn't make the deal with Crockett, he was going to be thrown off the network. Yeah. But then when Crockett comes in and he's got all the NWA wrestlers that Ted Turner was used to and, you know, it would be a seamless transition because a lot of those guys had already crossed back and forth from the Georgia and Carolina territories. It was all the names the people liked. then that's when he dropped Watts and dropped Mid-South,

and it was like, again, Newman. But nevertheless, he was willing another time to get involved in a wrestling business, not necessarily because he always aspired to, but because he saw a good opportunity, and he was pissed off at the people that had hijacked his fucking Saturday night programming. And then Jim Crockett, Jr. gets control of all three times. because that is three time slots for wrestling. And they have a good run,

and the business starts having their problems because of either a crazy accountant or a plane or expanding too much, Vince McMahon, attacking their pay-per-view chances on all the above. And Ted Turner, realizing wrestling, the wrestling he's airing may go away, instead of looking for another company, buys the company, we can get into maybe the worst thing you could say about Ted Turner's involvement

with wrestling, the executives he hired at different times. Yeah, the worst thing about the involvement was he wasn't more directly involved because that that was at the same time as he was starting to get bigger. And remember by the time that Bischoff even tells the story of how he got the Nitro deal, it was like getting a meeting with the Pope in 1994 or five, whatever it was. Well, it wasn't that easy by the time 1989 or whatever rolled around. So it wasn't like Ted was checking in, you know, multiple times a day. How's my wrestling going?

He had all, by that point, it was just too far removed. So he buys the company, Jim Crocker promotions, the NWA, at the end of 89, or end of 88, excuse me. I believe Missy Hyatt always said that it was around this period of time where Ted Turner said like, hey, baby, do you want to wrestle? She didn't, but that's a very Ted Turner kind of thing to say. And the story always goes, and I'd love to know what you think of this.

Ted Turner knew that Rick Flair was the star of the show. He had been a star on Georgia Championship Wrestling just as the NWA champion coming in every now and then. Yeah. He knew that Rick Flair was important to the company. Plus, that was a, Ted Turner gimmick, right? When he'd see Flair in a suit.

So with the women or the playing videos or whatever, that was something that would appeal to Ted Turner as a wrestling gimmick. And Ted knew he needed Rick Flair and Ted wanted Rick Flair. And the problem was Rick Flair didn't know that. And the executives put in place kind of abused the fact that Rick Flair didn't realize that Ted Turner insisted on Flair being there. Yeah. And a time or two, it was a turning point where finally Turner had to

So we got, we need flare, right? We got flare. They had to make a move. But that was the problem is that, like I said, by that time, because I was there, well, I'll tell you, I was in the TBS studio on Techwood Drive at least once a week from the summer of 1985 to when they moved to center stage in early 1989. and never saw Ted Turner there once. And they did a few press conferences when they bought,

but it was with, you know, El Higanti or whatever or et cetera. The only, the only time I ever saw Ted Turner was at one fucking time in 1983 when I was there to remember the Georgia territory, right? We got the one chance. Dundee is the Booker got me and Frank Marell the Angel and Jerry Novak the Bounty. hunter to get a squash match on the TBS show for like eight minutes to supposedly make a stars and juice up all the local towns that were doing 200 people and there was a little commissary like a two rows of tables in the basement that you get fountain drinks and maybe a hot dog

whatever the fuck and I went down there in my gimmick because I did you know we were just interlopers in there we came in dressed and we're ready to fucking go And I went down to the red jacket, the green tie, whatever I wore that day, and the fucking yachting hat and everything. I just went to get a goddamn fountain Coke. And the guy in front of me turned around with a tray of like chicken salad or whatever and looked at me and it was Ted fucking Turner. And I was just, hello, sir? And he walked on. He had to be, I'm wearing a yachting hat in front of Ted Turner.

He had to, what the fuck, a yachting champion. Yes, was going on in his company that I, this kid in this ludicrous outfit with a, nevertheless. You know, it's interesting, though, the amount of time that you spent on TV on his network, you know, he had to have seen you. He had to have watched you. He had to have been in a meeting and you were one of the monitors. Well, not then, but yes, eventually. Eventually, 85 to 89, or 90, I guess we could say.

Yeah. He definitely saw you. You know, you talk about you didn't really see him. much. And obviously, wrestlers who were there or people like Bill Watts who were there in the 70s had a different relationship with Ted as he was rising up. Did Jim Hurd ever meet Ted? Because we know that people wrote in, they said, I saw a few people like, the worst thing Ted Turner did was hire Jim Hurd. Well, he didn't. He hired someone else who hired Jim Hurd, but would he have ever even... He may have hired somebody else that hired the somebody else that hired Jim

heard. I mean, you know, but I'm sure that they had some type of meeting at some point. I would think I wasn't ever in the room when it happened or, you know, like me and heard right off the bat. It wasn't like we're going to sit down and have a casual conversation about anything. When we started at button heads from the first minute we met. So I never had, hey, Jim, you ever talk to Ted? but I would assume at some point just in some official gathering at CNN Center

where everybody had to wear suits that they probably crossed paths. Well, Jim Barnett knew him too, obviously, going back to taking over the Georgia promotion, brokering the deal with Vince McMahon and Jim Crockett Jr. You have to think one of the roles of Jim Barnett was to keep Ted Turner in the loop because he had the relationship with Ted Turner. A good one. I like Vince McMahon's. That was the thing with Barnett probably had the easiest.

time of the bunch of them getting to Ted if he needed to get to Ted. And that's why that he was from the time that he started in 74 when he came over to end the war. And then he was the owner, whoever was the Booker, fine, whoever was the star fine, but he was the owner of the promotion that featured the goddamn wrestling that was on his station. I'm sure Ted Turner probably thought Barnett was a millionaire too, because he did a great fucking job of the, you know, making it appear that way.

And then Barnett, it was always able to, whoever needed to get somehow to Ted for some reason at some point, whether it was Vince or the other side, Barnett always seemed to be involved. And I feel like for a lot of years, the one picture that I would constantly see in magazines or just, here's a wrestler with a normal person or someone from outside the world. it'd be Mr. Wrestling 2 with Lillian Carter, the mother of President Jimmy Carter.

I feel like the last few years it's the photo of Mr. Wrestling 2 at Ted Turner. I've actually seen more than that else. Whoever discovered it, they just started sharing it and it goes around and it's them doing the handshake, the whatever you want to say. You know, I don't know.

It's just, you know, you look at his relationship with wrestling, you brought up the Nitro thing, the idea that he just blurted out, give him prime time for an hour on Monday nights. head-to-head with Vince nobody thought that would work. I don't even know if Ted Turner put enough thought into it

to know what he was doing that. It was against Vince McMahon. You would almost think he had to. This was his business, knowing what's on the other channels, like USA. Well, that's the thing is that Ted owned the wrestling company, and they had from October, November, 1988, through, well, this is sometime in 1995 when that meeting was had,

they didn't make any fucking money. They lost money. And there were, as has been proven, there were a number of executives in the hierarchy at TBS that didn't want the goddamn wrestling company, but they couldn't get rid of it because Ted wouldn't let them. And that was the thing. And then finally,

when Bischoff is, you know, gets this meeting and this chance, but on the spur of the moment, he said, well, what do we need to be competitive? Well, we need a primetime show. Good. Do it. That's the kind of decisions that Ted made. However, in the overall scheme of things, he had gotten so big that he'd let the fucking wrestling company lose money for six years before that they had that meeting. Well, part of the issue, too, correct me if I'm wrong, it was caught up in the wrestling or in the Turner bureaucracy. Like, was, that Turner Home Entertainment made all the money for the pay-per-views,

but WCW wouldn't until that changed. Oh, there was all kinds of weird ways that money was allocated, and sometimes it worked against the wrestling company, because the wrestling company didn't get paid any rights fees from TBS, which would have probably made it profitable, you know, even, well, maybe not quite at the depths of Jim Hurd's mismanagement. but then Turner Home Entertainment later on was paying

part of the salaries of the megastars during the boom period so they would give it and they would take away and it was blah blah. But to point being, I'm not saying Ted didn't give a shit whether it made any money or not. I'm just saying that

if Ted wanted the wrestling but he had had other things on his mind, then when he blurts that out they better fucking deliver. right because now he's paying attention to it and that's when bischoff to his credit he made a go with the thing for the first two or three years but he made some ill choices as far as who to place responsibility on it otherwise and they spent a fucking fortune and over that next

five years ted had not only gotten more removed but ted had become a part of a agglomerate that where he couldn't save the wrestling company. It's considered an epic corporate disaster right now. In the present day, the AOL, Time Warner merger, it's a disaster. Yes. But that's the thing is that over that period of time, they got so big because they called attention to themselves and then they got big and then everybody's looking at them. And then when they fall on their ass, then they were unsalvageable because they're

everybody, yeah, get rid of it now. And Ted couldn't make decisions by that point. So sometimes it's better just flying under the fucking radar. You were obviously there in the WWE when Vince McMahon decided to produce a billionaire Ted

skits. His reaction to WCW Nitro starting, signing up former WWE stars who he in some cases like Hogan and Savage, he didn't want. He didn't want to use them as wrestlers. It's not like Holland ass just saying we'll take the bigger deal.

There's some people that Vince discarded. And Ted Turner was doing well with them, and Nitro was becoming a thing. It's one of the rare examples of someone producing something against someone like Ted Turner, and it makes you think, you know, I feel bad for that billionaire. Why is this guy paying him?

What did he do? I've never even seen this guy on wrestling, except one time he was at center stage with Jane Fonda in the front row and Johnny B. Bad shot them with glitter. You know what I mean? They were never around. that's the thing is remember at the time

Vince wasn't a billionaire Vince wanted to be a billionaire but before he was a billionaire he in his mind was the little guy the mom and pop business the the little every man who has built this

this empire called the WWF and he's having to take on this fucking billionaire with all these resources that just puts a little man under his thumb and Vince thought to and maybe you know what again they're so alike because Schittler's done the same thing but Vince in his mind thought that people would see him as the poor little downtrodden guy in this fight with a billionaire and that's why he did all of that stuff and again like you said earlier it was a one-sided thing because you know Ted didn't give a shit what Vince did.

Ted had all kinds of things going on, and he actually ended up giving money away to charity and people in need old Ted Turner, unlike Vince would ever do. Well over a billion dollars he gave away. Yeah, but that's a thing when the story, when Ted called Vince up after they had bought Crockett and said, Vince, I'm in the wrestling business now.

It was just to needle him. It was just to needle him. It wasn't really a life and death, you know, cutthroat struggle for survival. I'm going to put the other guy out of business. But with Vince, you know, and then later on with Bischoff, it was. Because Bischoff was a minion. So he's like, yeah, imagine my reputation if I put Vince, man out of business. But Ted Turner didn't care.

But also it was a helpful thing. Like ECW learned that early on. Paul Heyman always has known that. if you present yourself as the opposition and engage in a fight with the big bully or the people that everyone sees as the big bully, it's a wonderful marketing tool. It helped WCW.

It helped ECW. I don't think it's really been a help for AEW the last few years. It doesn't really seem like, you know, I know they're a challenger brand in their eyes, but they're not really challenging. AEW is that annoying fucking kid that's dripping ice cream on you everywhere

and you just want him to fucking go away. He's not the underdog. But Vince McMahon had this obsession. He took an ad in the paper, I think it was the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal, like encouraging shareholders to, like, question Ted Turner about how much he's spending against Vince McMahon. Yeah. Ted Turner, like, the least of his problems was Vince McMahon,

and Vince McMahon made everything about Ted Turner's trying to put us out of business. Ted Turner's trying to hurt us. And a lot of people believed it. Well, and- And ignored everything that Vince had done a decade earlier. well exactly it was it was tit for tat only there were more tits involved and and lots more tats but again the thing is technically both things were true as i said eric bischoff on behalf of wcw was engaged in whatever he could do to fucking cut vince's balls

off and vice versa but ted wasn't engaged in like he didn't wake up every morning have we put vince under yet. Eric, do it again. Like, it was one conversation. That was it. Yeah, do it, do it again. Do it again. But that's, you know, but it made, Vince has to have some dragon in his mind he wants to slay or poop upon. I don't know. And, you know, it is one of the big what-ifs. What happens at WCW if they still have the monetary losses, still have the creative issues, the ratings continue to drop. But Ted Turner's in charge.

how different would it have been? Who would he have put in charge of WCW if he didn't have faith in the people in charge of it then? He wouldn't have been dealing with a Vince Rousseau would have been the person above, above, above them. Oh, yeah, well, Harvey Schiller or someone. He actually remember, whenever the non-compete ran out, he did talk to, I think it was Barnett, right,

because Barnett was still around then. He asked Barnett how much he thought in that modern day and age and environment that it would cost to start a wrestling promotion. And Barnett gave him probably a realistic number that was in the tens of millions, and he was like, ah, okay. You know, but it wasn't like he was never interested again,

but again, he was the best billionaire because he was a businessman, not a mark. He knew the value of wrestling, but it wasn't his life's dream to promote wrestling. And he just was a, was a, cool fucking guy. So that's the that's the guy you dream of

to be involved in wrestling or anything else. And he didn't, sometimes didn't give a shit about cutting everybody's balls off to make a fortune until it was time to cut everybody's balls off and make a fortune.

But then he gave some of the fortune back. So, you know, we don't have those kind of billionaires anymore. And he's been relatively out of the public eye for the better part of the last two decades, especially the last decade or so, he had been suffering, I believe it was a form of dementia, living in Montana. I think he may be one of the biggest private landowners in America. I was about to say, I think he owned most of Montana. Yeah. And a very quiet ending for someone who was so loud and so brash as a billionaire and as

a successful businessman and a real visionary. I mean, CNN is what it is now. And you almost must think like, okay, it's part of the cable package. It's there. It took a lot of balls to create that and fund that. They didn't make money for years. Do the kids know that that was, before that, there was no such thing as a 24-hour news channel on cable or anywhere else? And when he launched that, it was, he's crazy. Who wants to watch the news 24 hours a day? Now there's umpteen of them. And there's news happening 24-4. hours a day. But back then, you either read the newspaper or you watched the local news at fucking seven or eight in the morning, noon, five o'clock, six o'clock in the evening, and maybe a

10 or 11 for 30 minutes. And like you said at the very top, you may not be a fan of some of the colorized versions of film classics, but the originals are still there. And he took charge of, took stewardship of some of the greatest films in the history of motion picture, some of the greatest cartoons and the history of animation. And that's a reason why a lot of that stuff survives. And why specifically there were channels. I mean, Turner Classic movies exist because he bought that catalog. That's what I'm saying is the first one was the MGM catalog, right, that he bought.

That was the first one. And that's what he launched one of the movie channels with. in it, but it, yeah, the Turner Classic movies people do restorations or are involved in them all the time. That's another thing that, you know, he had a gone with the wind kind of thing about preserving cinema. So, so many of these channels not only exist today is an offshoot of what he did with TBS and the CNN, you know, embryo type of thing. but also most of the programming on him started because he owned such a library that he was able to preserve

and keep from being lost. I used to watch the Three Stooges on TBS before school when I was a kid. Jim, one final question about Ted Turner, and again, there's so much we could continue talking about outside of wrestling, a fascinating life. In terms of a wrestling Hall of Fame,

whether it's the Observer Hall of Fame or just anything that wants to be a legitimate wrestling Hall of Fame. It's always been a debate. Is Ted Turner a Hall of Famer? I've always thought, yes, because if you took him away from wrestling, it's a different landscape altogether. But what are your thoughts?

Is Ted Turner a Wrestling Hall of Fame? Well, okay. Again, there's not really one foremost legitimate wrestling Hall of Fame, the WWE, we've talked about, the Wrestling Observer, fine. But in baseball, because I don't know about, I'm asking you legitimately, what categories do they have, like if you were an announcer or a broadcaster,

if you were a team owner or a manager or a player, do they have different categories? Does everybody just go in? How does that work? The players all go in to the General Hall of Fame. For announcers, there's something called the Ford Frick Award, named after, obviously the Ford Frick. Unfortunately, named after an. unfortunately named man. But what happens is... The fuck is that.

They go into the Hall of thing. But Ford Frick. But it's not considered part of the general wing. And of course, there have been owners and managers and other people who get in. I think that because you, you know, he was very influential and important more so than many wrestlers, but you... Then if you get that deep, putting him in the general wrestling Hall of Fame, which you then have to put the guy in the baseball Hall of Fame that made the decision to air the first world series.

You see what I'm saying? Ted Turner belongs in the Broadcasting Hall of Fame or belongs in the sailing Hall of Fame for a Captain outrageous or so many other the billionaire's Hall of Fame. But I'm not saying he wasn't, didn't have an indelible mark on wrestling, but do you just put somebody that far removed from the actual endeavor into the Hall of Fame. If he aired the World Series, no. If he aired the World Series and said, I'm going to buy the company and make sure it

doesn't go out of business. And so many of the wrestlers that you know of will get an opportunity and rise up because this company exists. And I think, like I said before, you take Ted Turner out of the equation. Who knows what happens to Atlanta wrestling? Who knows what happens to Vince McMahon's national expansion? before WrestleMania. Who knows what happens to Jim Crockett promotions?

And of course, if they'll even be a WCW. And then, let alone WCW is funded after losing money for years. They made so much money in a brief period of time before they lost everything again. But they had lost so much money up to that point. It doesn't seem like that much now, but it was. He didn't give up.

He never gave up. I don't know. I think we don't know. Oh, you've talked me into it. We don't know exactly how deep his wrestling knowledge is or isn't or how much he really was a fan or wasn't, but he liked it enough that it survived because of him in some respect. You talked me into it. I'll tap on it. All right. That's what James said.

Besides that, Ted Turner and James Dudley, right there side by side in the WWE Hall of Fame. I said a legitimate Hall of Fame, not the WWE Hall of Fame. That's true. You didn't qualify. Well, Jim, there it is. Ted Turner, 87. years old, a pioneer and of course the former owner of World Championship Wrestling and Turner Broadcast System and

Turner Network Television and everything else. Turner Outdoor Advertising. And with that, all right, the drive-thru is closed. Songs return next week. We've had some new submissions. Aaron D. Donato, we've received her song. I'm sorry. We have not played it yet.

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