Jocko Podcast - 108: How to Stand Up to Bad New Leadership. How to Deal with Boss Not Listening to Feedback. Apologizing Shows Weakness? And A Chance to Say Goodbye.

Episode Date: January 10, 2018

0:00:00 - Opeing  0:09:07 - How to stand up to new leadership when you don't like their attitude. 0:21:01 - Clarification on the expression, "If there's a doubt, there is no doubt." 0:26:19 - Should Other martial arts belts carry over in any way to Jiu Jitsu belts? 0:30:50 - How to take ownership of your boss not listening to your feedback. 0:44:54 - Should you take up Jiu Jitsu in Your 40s when You're already well into Other Martial Arts? 1:03:08 - How to implement Extreme Ownership when the blame falls to you anyway (because of your low rank). 1:14:51 - Does Apologizing show weakness? 1:20:01 - Should you stand down if another team member is showing better leadership than you? 1:25:24 - Support: JockoStore stuff, Super Krill Oil and Joint Warfare and Discipline Pre-Mission, THE MUSTER 005 in DC. Origin Brand Apparel and Jocko Gi, with Jocko White Tea,  Onnit Fitness stuff, and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes). Extreme Ownership (book), The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual.  1:49:55 - Closing Gratitude.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 101. With Echo Charles and me, Jocco Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. Goodbye. Do not get to say goodbye. That is the way it goes. In this line of work, you do not get to say goodbye.

One day, your friend is there. Your brother. your shared experiences and shared pain and shared thoughts one day your friend is there to share those things and then they're gone of course we think we are all going to live forever and then by the bullet or the bomb or the ocean or the sky they are gone the memories are there but they are not enough they are not enough because the story was not complete there was more there was so much more and now there is not and there cannot be and I did not say goodbye not once I did not get to tell you the things I should have told you I did not say the words not even a thank you but you knew because as I knew

you knew and that is good and I am thankful but we did not finish the story The story was not yet complete. So now I finish it alone. I'll do my best, but the story will fall short without you in it. But I'll do my best. I will. One last thing. Thank you.

And goodbye. And I wrote down those words thinking about a question that I got asked. The question was as an operator, I know you lost many brothers. I lost my wife to cancer. My question is how do you deal with the inevitable flashbacks and the toughest moments? For me, it would be the hospital visits, emergency ambulance rides, or the moment of her passing, which I was at her side for. I struggle a bit as those memories continue to rise to the surface. Thank you for any advice you can offer. And my advice was yes, this does happen.

You will have flashbacks of those tough moments and you will lose control sometimes. And you will break down and that is the way it is and that is the way it will be. And as you process the loss and you adapt to this new reality, the breakdowns will become less frequent. And you'll learn somewhat to control them. But they won't go away completely ever. And that's okay. Because they will be a reminder of what you do have. Life.

So live it. And that's one of the hardest things for the losses that are suffered in my old profession. There was never any kind of goodbye, at least not a spoken one. Because even though it wasn't spoken underneath it was there, we lived it. We said goodbye every day in how we lived, in how we trusted, in how we gave. That's the brotherhood. So to all of you out there that have lost one of your comrades in arms, even though you might not have gotten to say goodbye,

even though you may not have told them what they meant to you, don't worry, they knew. They knew and you know that it's going to be okay. So like I said, that was a question I got and just wanted to offer some. perspective that I unfortunately do have the speaking of questions echo it's a Q and a day sure and I know we got some a few questions a few more questions here to go through yeah yeah let's hit it all right we'll do all right first question I'm a young officer

platoon commander I deployed late by the time I arrived on deployed there had been some problems and my company commander had been sent back to the states and the company first sergeant had been redeployed to another country now there's a new company commander and new first sergeant they're treating all the soldiers in my platoon and in in the entire company as if we are all messed up i don't like their attitude and my gut tells me they're out to make themselves look good by crucifying more people in the platoons i want to take care of my soldiers How do I best stand up to the new leadership? All right.

So I would say the best way that you can take care of your soldiers is not to stand up to the new leadership, but instead to build a relationship with the new leadership. You know, if you confront them, you confront the new leadership that's taken over. Automatically, they're going to see you as the enemy, right? They're going to see whoever got sent home for whatever reason, maybe they'll be. there was some kind of a problem. Maybe there was, yeah, there's definitely some kind of a problem. Someone got in trouble. Something happened bad.

That's why guys are getting sent out of country or back to the States. If you confront the new leadership, that means you're on the bad guy's side. That's not where you want to be. Because if you're on the bad side, if you're on the bad list, then they're not going to listen to you. They're not going to trust you. And they're going to be suspect of you and of your soldiers. So that is not, confrontation in this is not going to be.

to be helpful. What you want to do is if you can build a relationship with them, if you can try and understand their perspective, which is important, because they don't know, you get, you get put into a position where you're taking over for a quote unquote bad boss or a bad platoon or a bad company. You don't know what the specific problems are. So you're pretty suspect on everything and you kind of have to be. So that's their perspective. Their perspective is like, yeah, we don't know what's going on in here. All we know is something bad happened. They fired the last company commander. They fired the last company first sergeant.

Something bad happened here. I don't know what it is, but I'm not going to let it happen to me. So I'm suspect of everything. So to understand that perspective. And then listen to what they're saying. Try and give them some kind of support, right? Try and gain their trust. So that way they will listen to you and they will start to believe you.

And then you will be in a position where you can actually protect the soldiers, right? If you get fired, you're not protecting your soldiers. If you go, I'm going, I'm going to stand up for you guys. Don't worry about you going, hey, you guys, you treat my soldiers bad. Oh, really? You're fired. Now who's taking care of your soldiers? So be careful of that.

Now, you could also be right. And these guys could be really, really bad. They could be out for themselves, out to make themselves look good. And if that is the case, well, it still remains that the best possible thing you can do for your soldiers is to develop a relationship with the people. guys and make sure that as they're trying to make themselves look good you protect your soldiers as much as you can and if they end up being good guys right that were just like I said just had a coming into a bad situation well then you've got an opportunity then you form a relationship

with them and and as you get through that then you on their good side you're good to go that way as well now this is where people get a little freaked out right because because I'm sitting here and I'm saying you got to play the game right People think I'm saying, hey, like, you need to brown nose. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Be fake and all this. Hey, here's the deal. I'm not talking about that.

I'm not talking about brown nosing. I'm talking about being professional. I'm talking about being respectful. I'm talking about being humble. That's what I'm talking about. I'm talking about understanding their perspective. I'm not talking about brown nosing. Those things, that's not how you build relationships.

And by the way, you don't. build relationships through brown nosing either. If you just try and brown-nosed people, they don't respect you. That's not how you build relationships. You don't build relationship through brown-nosing. All you do is submit. You don't build anything. You're just on the receive side.

But if you're respectful and you're humble and you're professional, that's how you build relationships. And the better relationships you have up the chain of command, the better you can take care of the people below you in the chain of command. That's the way it works. of course this doesn't mean you're okay if your superiors are doing something that's illegal, immoral, or unethical, or if they're putting your troops or the mission in danger, right? We're not playing the game.

We're not playing the game. Now, you might still even then have to play the game. If you were my boss echo and you were like, hey, I want you to send your guys to attack that bunker on the elevated position right there. me bunker with a with a machine multiple machine guns in it with interlocking fields of fire and I'm like we're not doing that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard now if I tell you I will not do it and you say okay fine you're fired you come here you take the platoon and go attack and now that guy does and they all get killed maybe what I should have done was like hey echo we shouldn't do that's not a good plan and you go no you do it anyways I go hey that's not a good plan and you say go do it

or I'm going to fire you. Okay, I'll go, I'll go do it. And now when you do it, you go out and you flank, you do something different. You know what I mean? You make something happen. You mitigate the damage as much as possible. So that's a decision you're going to have to make.

That's why being a leader's hard, because that's a really hard decision to make right there. Yeah, that's a tough one. Yeah, I remember at the muster, last muster. You're talking about like that very thing. Like you you build a relationship with them. And, you know, some people every once in a while, I'm paraphrasing kind of what you said, where some people will look at it as brown nosing.

Yeah. And you're like, but it's you build a relationship with them. Every once in a while, you might brush the words. You'll brush against some, you know, every once in a while, then I'll come back or whatever. But, um, but the mission is worth that. You know, if I got a brush up against brown nosing just for a second to accomplish the mission. and whatever, then that's what I'm going to do kind of thing, and that's what a good leader does.

I was like, yeah, man, that makes, that makes good sense. And really, so when I thought about that, I was like, well, really what that is is a lack of perspective or people forgetting about the big picture. You know, forgetting what the big overall thing is, we're here to win. We're here to win, yes. And if I got to tell this guy, he's got to, you know,

that's a great plan, sir. Yeah. That you come up with some brilliant plans, sir. I'm going to go and execute that thing. So that he says, oh, see, Jocco gets it. And I'm going to go let him execute on his own. I'm not going to bother him because he, because he understands my planning.

And then I go back to my guys and I go, hey, here's what we're doing. It's a little different from what the boss said, but don't worry, his intention was there. I'm not talking bad about the boss.

I'm like, hey, this is what the boss want to do. I think this is how we're going to get it done. Don't talk bad about your boss. You just say we're making some adjustments based on his guidance. You actually give him credit. Yeah, yeah.

That's how you get it done. You're brushing up against brown nosing a little bit. But again, if you're just a full on brown noser, you're not developing relationships. You're just, You're just an ass kisser and it's not going to go good for you.

Yeah. Because think about this. Think about this. Here's why. And I just thought of this myself. Here's why a brown noser isn't developing a relationship. Here's how it's not good

to just be a brown noser. Does the superior listen to the brown noser? Does he respect their opinion? No, not really. Yeah. He's just looking at him like, oh yeah, he's just, oh yeah, that's old, old echo, yep.

Hey, buddy, yep. Yeah. Yep. You're going to do whatever I say. A nice little yes, man. Cool. Yeah. You give me input.

I'm like, oh, thanks, Echo. That's good. Thank you. Now, hey, the big boys are over here trying to talk. Can you just excuse yourself? You don't want to end up like that. You're kind of the guy who like, you know, like the iconic picture of the guy fanning the other guy. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, man. But he's not giving any strategic input on the operations. Not building the relationship. So, yeah, build a relationship, man.

Don't confront build. Yeah. I think we're distracted by that. Right? The feeling you get when this new guy comes. I don't like the way he said that to me even though what he said it was really important I don't like the way he said it. You know what's interesting is when a lot of leadership books that we've discussed and a lot of leadership guidance will say if you're a new leader coming in you just don't start barking orders, right? You just don't start saying, hey, do this. We're changing that. You assess and you look around and you make sure now. Occasionally this doesn't happen. There's things that happen if you're taking over a totally messed up unit or team then you might have to go in there and lay down some law. But generally, you come in and you assess and you make, then you see what's wrong and you see where some adjustments could be made. Now think about that from the other side, from down the chain of command, you also shouldn't jump to conclusions and be like, oh, the new boss is an idiot or new boss has this plan. No, you should be like, okay, let's see what his plan is.

Yeah. You should both have a little period of like a like a cooling down period. Sure. But a warming up period. Sure. Yeah. The opposite of a cooling down. It's a warming up.

It's getting to know each. other. Yeah. It's funny. This is way out of the left field, but so good. Big shocker. So Greg McIntyre, he'd, he made this one comment where he was explaining like how he rolled with like some famous person.

And like he rolled. I was like, oh yeah. Like how was that? You know how you want the full report? Like how was it really? I forget who it was. But he was like, he was like, no, it was a full on, you know, first date role. Oh, yeah, yeah.

But, and I didn't ever heard that before. I knew exactly what that meant. It was like, I'm not going to go hard in the paint right off the bat. He, I can feel he's not going hard. And it's just kind of feeling out, you know, and a lot of respect throughout the whole thing. What level does that start at in Jiu-Jitsu? What do you mean? Like, what, how good do you have to be in Jiu-Jitsu before you start, like, having a little nice, gentle.

You know what I call is just respectful. Yeah. Like, here's an example. You just don't dive on the ankle lock. Yeah. You know, two seconds into rolling. Like, oh, really? Okay.

I mean, I've had that happen. And then I've had to, you know, take appropriate, call them measures. Right. And you see, and you know that, and that's the whole reason for the first date roll, really. Yeah. Because it's like, you know, you start to roll the guy. You've heard of him. And he's heard of you and whatever, whatever the situation is.

And you guys roll. And in your mind, you're kind of like, okay, I'm going to give this guy some respect. And he doesn't. He goes all out. First thing. It's kind of like you kind of got, you got a fan. it a little bit not majorly but there's that little inkling of oh all right it's something it's not nothing it's something but compared to just some dude you know let's say we're all training

some dude some new person whatever in the gym and you guys are all going hard it's all good you're going hard that I know it's like like basically purple belts they're coming at me brown belts and black belts that you know it's all cool you know it's like mutual respect and we're not saying we and I'm not saying don't roll hard and I'm not saying you don't escalate Because as you get to going, you know, like things escalate and, you know, that's, you know, you get to know each other. Now it's okay to get after it a little bit. Yeah. That's a weird little unwritten thing.

Yeah. In Jitsu, isn't it? Like, I don't really, I guess it's just respect. Yeah. I think you're just respect. So yeah, do that up and down the chain of command too. Yeah. Like that respect.

It's that first date, like period. Like how you said that period. Let's get to know a little warming up period. Waring up. Warming up period. Yeah, exactly. Give your bosses that slack. Yeah.

All respect. all nice, you know. Next question, Jocco, I got a question regarding the quote. If there is a doubt, there's no doubt. Oh, Ryan, remember that from, yeah, the last time. Okay, this would seem to indicate avoiding taking risks. Many, many businesses or many business decisions involve risk. Often there can be a doubt about either of two options.

Doubt that you should maintain the status quo and doubt about pursuing a new opportunity. To frequent, or you frequently talk about dichotomies. would you mind sharing your thoughts on this principle? Yeah, this is a classic thing. And it's a great point. And that's why these little sound bites can be a little bit dangerous sometime. We get these little power sound bites

because they are that simple. And of course, I like things to be simple, right? That's the number two law of combat is to keep things simple. But sometimes things like this need a little bit of amplifying information. And yes, this could be construed as being extremely risk-averse.

And like, hey, if I have, have any doubt about the safety or the success of this mission that we're not going to do it. Yeah. Which if that was the case, then I would have done zero missions during my deployments to Iraq. Same with business. Never would have started Victory MMA, never would have started Echalon Front because there was risk involved in starting those things. Never would have done anything, really, because there's always going to be doubt.

So this is an accurate statement. And of course, every business has risk. and so I guess that idea that if there is a doubt, there is no doubt is not to be taken literally when it comes to risk. When it comes to risk, don't take it literally. But what it should be,

I think is like a warning, right? Like a little warning that's in your head. If there's a doubt like, okay, we need to think about what's going on here. We need to understand what is at risk here. Because, and I just had this conversation with us, CEO of a company as a matter of fact I was talking about the dichotomy of leadership and I was talking about

you know giving him examples I was like for instance in and he was in a technology company and I said you know if you didn't take risk you wouldn't make any progress but if you took too much risk you wouldn't be where you are right now because they're dominating so it's like oh you're you're balancing that dichotomy all the time so if he would have said hey if there's a doubt there is no doubt he never would have gotten off the ground now where I think it becomes a more solid statement is from like a moral or an ethical standpoint. And that is if you think that something is wrong, well, then it probably is.

If you think you're doing something that you probably shouldn't be doing, then there's doubt and you probably shouldn't be doing it. I think an easy way to keep yourself in check, and these days it's a very real possibility. It's just if you think that you're being recorded at all times. Like if you just think, oh, I'm being recorded, which probably somebody is recording you.

Yeah. Like if you decide you think you can get away with something, You're probably not going to get away with it. Look at all the, just go watch YouTube, you know, caught in the act or whatever. People get caught all the time. So whatever you're doing, think that there could be somebody there with a phone recording you. And I think that keeps you morally and ethically in check.

You know, I used to tell my guys that you could be getting watched by CNN or Al Jazeera or some report, you know, whoever. You could be getting watched. And if you're doing something that you shouldn't be doing, you're going to get caught. So don't do it. Not to mention these days, we got the. the aircraft overhead, they can see everything. So do the right thing. That's what you do.

You do the right thing. If you have any doubt that what you're doing is the right thing, then you should probably shouldn't do it. A lot of those, a lot of the horrible police actions. Yeah. Are, you know, recorded by some random person with the phone.

Now, of course, I always need to point out that there's all these good actions that take place every single day, millions and millions of police doing the right thing. Yeah. No one publishes those. No one uploads those onto YouTube or Facebook,

but the bad acts that are caught, they're caught because someone has a camera. Yeah. And so like that's great advice for a cop. Hey, act like you're being recorded all the time. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, that's interesting. Well, it makes sense. Because you very well might be. Yeah. Yeah. So do the right thing. Do the right thing. Next question.

Thank God. I didn't have cameras when I was a kid for all the dumb stuff I did. Yeah. Yeah. I always want to make sure that I'm not sitting here saying like, everyone out there should do the right thing like me. Yeah, yeah. I'm not saying that.

If you thought I was saying that, I'm not saying that. I apologize for even sounding that way. I was as dumb and stupid as the next person and still do dumb stuff. Try not to. Oh, good, bro. You don't do dumb stuff, right? No, it was bad when we had Charlie Plum and Jim Conkelon.

Yeah. And I'm like thinking they're like you know hey this is the way to act right. And I'm like don't put me in that category with you guys you guys are awesome. Heroes and I'm just over here. Yeah. Yeah. Don't say that about me. You guys can say like hey talk about character.

You have character. I'm just over here trying to do like that. Yeah. Yeah. Check. Next question. Should McMap that's what we're calling McMap? Yeah, McMap.

That's the Marine Corps martial arts program. Should McMap belts carry over in some way to Jiu-Jitsu belts, or should everyone start out as a white belt, no matter what kind of training you've had before? Yeah. Yep, white belt. White belt. For those of you who don't know what McMap is,

McMap is the Marine Corps martial arts program. It's a good program. It's a solid, good place to start. The Marine Corps put together a good program. The Army has a really good program, too. The Army Combatives Program. Yeah, great stuff. and both those are solid,

but specifically the Marine Corps martial arts program has belts. You get like a tan belt, and then I think a green belt, and then a brown belt, and then a black belt. Pretty legit, right? They have a little program. There is no equivalency to Jiu-Jitsu.

You'll know some stuff, but it's, you should just, when you go to start Jiu-Jitsu, you just go with the white belt on. Now, it's the same thing with Judo. Judo is really close to Jiu-Jitsu, as we, know judo's really close to jit-to if you have a black belt in judo cool white belt jiu-jitsu umbo

very you know again very similar to jiu-jitsu white belt so you might you're going to get promoted faster yeah because you have a lot of experience wrestling is the same thing like you just don't go oh i'm i'm just going to show up as a purple ball because i've been grappling for eight years no it doesn't work that way show up with the white belt be humble no big deal you'll advance fast don't care about the belts man yeah we talk about this all the time doesn't matter. Yeah. Just go in there and train.

As a matter of fact, having a white belt is kind of nice because there's no pressure whatsoever. Like just enjoy that. Enjoy not worrying about getting tapped out. Enjoy just being able to roll and roll with people that are better than you are worse than you. You're the lowest on the bottom of the totem pole. You can roll with anybody and tap out and that's it.

It's cool. Yeah. Don't worry about it. Yeah. I agree. Yeah, I mean that it seems kind of self-explanatory maybe a little bit because, you know, it's like anything. It's like any accolade, because it's really what the belt is.

Essentially, it's like an accolade, right, that you can wear. I think that belt actually is a sign of where you are on the, on the hierarchy. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And it's a sign, though. Yeah. It's not written in stone.

It's just a sign because we know that there's an indicator. Yeah. It's an indicator, right? Because we know that there's, there's purple belts that can tap out black belts and there's, and it's just an indicator. But what about like the. the purpose though, you know? It's like a, it's like a little thing, like a badge. Okay, okay.

Yeah, I'm trying to figure if I can counter that, but I don't think, yeah, it's like a badge. Yeah, I don't know, yeah, I'm trying to figure it out for sure, like what it is. I like belts, by the way. I like it. I dig the whole thing. But yeah, if you get kind of that badge in something specific, it's always something specific, like even like real badges, you know, this is specific. So, yeah, when you come and do something else, it's like, yeah, you got to get that

specific badge. Yeah, true. in, you know, studio 540, right, rough steps up there. They have judo and jiu-its. They have judo in there.

So, you know, if you're taking the jiu-jitsu class, you know, at noon, and then you go to the judo class at two, yeah, you're changing your belts.

If you're different, you know, you can't just, oh, I'm just gonna keep on my ghee and just teach me judo. I'm 99. And no, bro, you change your belts.

That's how, you know, that's a different thing. And like you said, they're similar. So you're right. It's vice versa, too.

Get your black belt in, in jujitsu go to a judo class white belt yeah straight up you're not it goes yeah yeah but actually this question he said should it should it translate um carry over in some way yeah it does carry over in some way right have some level of skill yeah the skill yeah the skill yeah the skill yeah you have some level of skill now if you're a black belt in mic map if all you took was micmap you will not be able to you You will get, you will not have a good time. You will not do well against a jiu-jitsu black belt. Most jiu-jitsu black belts, you're not going to do well.

Yeah. And that's just kind of speaks more. Because I think you, yeah, yeah, well, it's just so much, just time on, time of training. Yeah. It's time of training. If you've been training longer, you're going to win. Yeah. That's the general rule.

Yeah, yeah. You know, of course, there's athleticism and there's strength and there's blah, blah, blah, blah. But if you've been training jiu-titsu longer, you're going to win. Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. Makes sense. next question

I run a five-man team two men down what does that mean he's missing two guys oh it's okay so five-man team so what it's supposed to be seven now it's five or it's a five-man team now there's only three we don't know we don't know okay

either way we figure that he's undermanned sure you know that much sure sure okay under man team five-man team two men down I'm not meeting performance expectations no sport coming from my command do you see a way out other than just getting after it.

I know you also talk about blaming yourself in taking extreme ownership because the people above you may have different information that leads to prioritize different areas. However, when I question things like why we don't have enough people working in different zones when clearly there's an imbalance in zones, to the point customers notice

or it makes it difficult for colleagues to do their jobs, then I'm deemed argumentative and that I don't have the best intentions. This was this was with the manager that is in charge of in charge of business and I would think understands my perspective more. We're supposed to have a culture of feedback, but he isn't receptive. I'm not the only one who said that about him as well. This all leads to me, this all leads me to think that I must just be fake and go through the motions, but that disgusts me. Yeah.

So what do we do here? How do we take ownership of this? How do you take ownership of your boss not listening to you, not hearing what you're saying? Well, the way you take ownership of that isn't to say my boss doesn't listen and doesn't understand. The way to take ownership of that is to say that I'm not a, I'm not doing a good job of getting my information to my boss.

I'm not doing a good job of convincing my boss. I'm not doing a good job of influencing my boss. So you can either be mad about that. that or you can change your approach. Step one, we're going back to this again today. Build a relationship with that person. Now there's a chance that that disgusts you. There is, right?

I've talked about that before. I've literally said that I had great relationships with people that I had like a visceral hatred for. I still had a good relationship with them and worked very well with them. If it discussed you and you can't do that, then there's other jobs, right? where you don't have to interact with other people. You know, you can be like a long-haul truck driver. You can be a technical writer,

where you just look at the information and turn it into words. You can be a lab technician. We don't have to interact with a lot of different people, and that's cool. There's a lot of jobs out there that require very little human in action. That's fine.

Because if you think you're going to go through life only working with people that you get along with, you're wrong. That's not going to happen. Especially if you want to run teams and you want to lead then you have to learn how to get over the fact that you might have to work with people that you don't like.

And by the way, on top of that, if they know that you don't like them, that is not going to make your job easier and it's not going to make your life better. In fact, it's going to make your life more miserable. The people that I had visceral hatred for that I worked for, it wasn't that bad because at least they thought I liked them and I acted like it and they liked me.

So it's like, okay, it was a little bit. painful, but you know what? Yeah. It's pretty low impact as opposed to like head-to-head conflict every single day. And by the way, when you have head-to-head conflict every day, you're miserable, you're going to advance slower, you're going to have less control over your fate, you're not going to get promoted. And on top of all that, you're going to get assigned the crappiest possible jobs because

your boss doesn't like you. And he likes that other guy over there. So he's going to get the easy job. Yeah. Right? He's going to get, you go save the princess. Jaco go slay the dragon, right? Now, of course, we know I prefer to slay the dragon.

Never mind the princess. But that's what I'm saying. Like, you want to get along with this person. You want to play the long game. You want to play the long game. And here's the deal when you play the long game. If the person sucks as bad as you say they do, they'll end up making their own bed and having to lie in it. And they'll end up working for you.

Now, also make sure that. you come to the table with solutions, not just complaints and problems, right? You can see that this guy's talking about, we don't have enough guys and you need to square of these zones, what's your solution to problems? Yeah, yeah. And what's really smart to do,

and you gotta be a little bit careful with this, but what can be very smart to do is, if you can solve the problem with your own internal assets, just go and execute on it and solve it. You know, if you use your own internal assets to solve a problem. Make the change, make it happen, implement it. And you go to the boss and say, hey, this is what we did.

There was this problem on our zones or whatever. Yeah, we made this adjustment. I took two guys from this, blah, blah, blah, blah. I moved them around and now here's where we're at. We're getting better, you know, results. You have to be careful. Because you can say that in such a way that you're thrown in your boss's face, right? You can absolutely do that.

Now, even though you were trying to build a relationship and trying to help the mission, you still end up with an adversarial relationship with your boss. Now things go negative again. So you got to be careful when you do this. You can also just present the idea and present the solution, be like, hey, boss, here's what I want to do. Which is, that's once you've got the relationship trust built up. If that doesn't there, then you can't just go present a problem,

present a solution of how you're going to do it. It's not going to let you do it because he doesn't trust you. Because he's got an adversary relationship with you. You see where this is? Yeah. You see how this works? Yeah. Another thing he says, near, he says, he says,

I would think the manager, this was a manager that is in charge of the business and I would think he understands my perspective more, right? So here we go. If you want to take ownership of things and how you, and you look at your boss and say, he doesn't blame my perspective or doesn't understand my perspective,

that's his fault. You know the way I look at that? If you don't understand my perspective as my boss, it's my fault. That means I'm not explaining to you. It means I'm not giving you enough information. It means I'm not convince you. Means I'm not building relationships

so that you can see my perspective. That's what that is. So don't blame the boss. Step up your game, build a relationship, teach him the perspective and win. And I'll tell you one more little thing on this. From a, to get away from the disgust mindset. Because I understand that.

You know, the one good way to get away from the disgust mindset is to get into the game mindset. The game, like this is a game. And this guy that I don't like, I'm going to become best friends with him. Watch. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, okay. Oh, you don't like this guy.

Cool watch. Yeah. Watch this. That's how it's going to go. And you're going to have fun with it. And you're going to try and win the game. Yeah. Which is good.

Sure. Winning. That understanding perspective. I think that's an everyday, almost everyday kind of thing where, okay, so my wife. We're on our way to the park. This is today, by the way. Mm-hmm.

And she's like, oh, she said, there's two parks. There's one you can go straight. There's one you can make a right. Then you make another left. It's two parks. And I don't know which one we're going to. I don't really mind which one we go to. So she's like, yeah, let's go to the other one.

Right. And she mentions that I don't know which even one is the other one, but whatever, I'll follow your direction. So she said, okay, make her, she said, she goes, stay in this lane. She doesn't motion, though. She goes stay in this lane. So I'm thinking, okay, we're going to stay in this lane. And she goes, okay, turn here. But then so she's not like pointing like turn here.

It's like because there's a turn right here. Then there's one like right here. You know, turn here can apply to like a bunch of stuff. But in her mind it's super clear, you know. So if I would have got mad or actually I can see how people can get frustrated right there. Right. So if I would express myself, oh, you're not being more clear. Boom.

Now we're. We're against each other. Yeah. Because I didn't. In my mind, I'm like, I can't read. your mind explain better. Leif's got a funny story. They were on night visions in a Humvee.

And he's telling the driver he's in the vehicle commander seat, which is the basically the front passenger seat. And he's pointing. He's going, hey, turn here, here, here. Yeah, yeah. And the guy just keeps driving. And he goes, bro, what are you doing? And the guy's like, I can't see you.

Because when you have night vision goggles on, you have no peripheral vision. He's like, I can't see your fingers. And Leif's like, oh, sorry. because what the proper call is right turn 30 meters right turn 500 meters right turn 100 meters right turn right turn boom and that way the person can do it yeah but Laif was pointing but the guy couldn't see it yeah but there's this very similar to your wife who's not pointing

yeah she wasn't pointing at the time well here's the thing too this is jammed me up I'm not going to take too long in this one but the way girls take your time we're all here girl the way girls female females girls take Do you remember the last time you talked about? You generalized females? Go ahead. No, it wasn't at my peril because that that was the same thing.

Well, it was the drawing of bicycle. Yeah, exactly. Right. It's the same thing. Same deal. No one drew a bike. No one drew a bike. It's no.

No, someone drew you on a tricycle. On an animated tricycle. It was legit. It was very legitimate. Separate than the point, but it was good. There was also some, there was also some pretty non-working bicycles that were drawn. Correct. Yeah.

And I dig it. And despite no means. says, you know, the superiority or inferiority of any of the sex at all. I'm just saying there's a study done. Girls and guys interpret and give directions in completely different ways because of how they, how their brain formulates like directions. So girls kind of require, this is real generally speaking, girls require like landmarks. We'll bring Jordan B. Peterson back on the talk about this.

Okay. I want to, I'd ask them about to see if you're correct or not. So girls, they prefer like landmarks and, you know, you know, like the voice on the thing. Like she'll be like, oh, on this way. So they can. Wait, you mean the Siri voice. Siri voice, yeah, whatever. Or whatever.

Yeah. I mean, those can help guys too or whatever. That navigation voice wasn't part of this study. So I shouldn't even mention the voice. But they prefer like landmarks, like make a right at the building. In a jet when you're flying a jet plane. Sure. Like an F-18, which I have done a backseat ride.

I didn't have a F-18 before. But the voice that talks to you is a female voice. And I was told that it's because it relaxes. It gets the attention of and then kind of relaxes the pilots. So it says like when I was flying, and I don't know why it wasn't like we were going to die, but at all, like I'm not trying to say at all. But the thing would say, warning.

It was a girl's voice, you'd say, warning, altitude, altitude. Yeah. And yeah, so they say it's relaxing a little bit. Yeah, I could dig it. You know, typically if my wife is giving me directions, it's not relaxing. I'm not saying it's stressful, but it's not relaxing. So where were you going with this?

The girls, which you said was going to be short. I'm just saying it's dangerous to do the directions thing, the navigation thing, with your wife or you're a girlfriend or with a girl, with a girl. Like if you, let's say you and a girl in whatever capacity is sitting next to you. And you guys are, you know how like when we're looking for the whole thing? We were both sort of looking for the hotel, you know, and we're both kind of navigating and then I failed and you just jump me, you don't remember that. And you actually debrief me. You're like, hey, when it was time, when I failed at nav, you were just like, I got this. Here, right turn coming up 500 meters, right turn 200 meters. Right turn, right. Right turn. Okay. Get in the right hand lane and you were just like, cool. Yeah. Yes. So consider that type of situation before you took over. Consider that situation when we were both trying to navigate. If you do. If you do that. So consider that type of situation when we were both trying to navigate. If you do. You do. You do. You do. You. You do. You. that with a girl, you, you were more likely to run into problems because of this. They interpret. I don't even know what this is anymore.

They interpret and give directions in different ways because their brain works different. They require like landmarks kind of guide them like, okay, make a right at this, make a laugh at this. Okay. That helps, sure, but it's more. What do guys go off of? They build a map in their head. So if they're like, okay, like if they looked at a map, they'd be like, okay, they'd have

a better understanding. Okay, so sure, I can make a right at the, at the building or whatever. But when they make a right, they're like, okay, I made that right. So here I am physically oriented, you know, and they kind of make sense of that way more than the girls do. I'm not saying it's like one is black, one is white. I'm just saying one does more of one. One does more a tendency. Yeah, it's more than tendency because it's how your mind works.

Okay. This is just the stuff. I didn't do the study. Anyone that wants to address this with Echo on social media can address it to Echo. I'm out. I will say this. And I'll believe the study. I sure will because I haven't been.

The other one is if you haven't, if you didn't listen to all the podcasts, Echo also said that girls cannot draw offhand a functional bicycle. Bicycle, correct. And he got a lot, he got a lot of attempts. Yeah. And he did get one person that put a GIF, it's a GIF, right? Animated GIF. An animated GIF of Echo himself riding a tricycle.

It was pretty awesome. Yeah. Again, beside the point, but it was very, very awesome. I don't even have any idea what the point of anything that we. you've said in the last few minutes and I don't even want you to try and we're talking about miscommunication like I can't read your mind you got to communicate you know like you don't understand my perspective he's supposed to understand kind of thing you know got it yes yes true true man so you got to be clear is what I'm saying like how you were when we were finding that steak

place or a hotel or whatever we're that's a good steak by the way yes all right next question do you think we do you think you would take up jiu jiu jitsu in your four If you had been introduced to something else in your 20s like Muay boxing, et cetera. I'm struggling with Jiu-Jitsu. I respect to hell out of it. I have an easier time with boxing and kickboxing. Just interesting. I'm just making a little bit like, I have an easier time with these things.

Gotcha. Yeah, yeah. So that's what I'm going to focus on. Oh, yeah. Given your most recent admission that you're, you are boring. Obviously, you're not because of your popularity. Do you think you'd pick it up later in life? Jiu-jitsu to me is a chore.

Boxing and kickboxing is fun. I think because in my youth, I figured out how to move my body in that way. I'm 43, by the way. So, first of all, do I think I would go to Jiu-Jitsu or start Jiu-G-Gi-Gi-Soo or get into J-Jitsu in my 40s if I had been, yes, absolutely, 100%. The power of J-Jitsu is very real.

It's a real thing. And once I recognized it, I wanted to have that power, the power to choke people, arm block them, dominate win, like win with no mercy. Now, what's interesting about this is there's certain people like certain things, right? And he even says, like, I have an easier time with kickboxing and boxing because he's, part of that's because he's done it for a long time since his 20s, so it's just easy for him. And it, like, jiu jih Tzu seems like a chore for him, because you know what else? He's getting beat up, you know, if he hasn't just getting into it now, he's getting

That's a chore, man. It's hard. It's hard on the ego. Yeah. I thought of an interesting rule. If you don't like jujitsu, if you don't think you like, maybe what do you think of this rule?

If you don't think you like jujitsu, take it, and I was trying to think, take it for six months, take it for three months. And I said, take it until you legitimately submit someone

that is comparable in some way to you. Yeah. You think that's a good rule? I think that's a good rule. Yeah. That's a good rule. Because I'm not talking about you,

you tap someone out that's weak and small or weaker than you and smaller than you. And then you're like, see, I can tap mine. I'm going to quit now. No, I'm talking about someone that's equivalent to you. Someone that has some comparable, like physical attributes to you. Because I believe that once somebody gets the taste of the power. And also, this also implies, or factually, if you train enough that you submit someone,

that means you got submitted a thousand, probably 500 times. You think that's a good number? I bet you by the time you submit someone in Jiu-Jitsu, you've probably been submitted 500 times. Okay, 400 times, 300 times. Yeah. If you go to a Jiu-Jitsu Academy as a white belt,

zero training. Yeah, yeah. You're going to get submitted four times, five times, six times, a class. Right? It just depends if there's other white belts that are first, second, third, fourth, fifth day, first month. So you could, no, yeah, you could. Depends how big.

I bet you get submitted a lot of times. Oh, yeah. You're not tapping guys out. It's 300 times. It's definitely more than 100. But I wouldn't say before you tap out 100 times in a week. Wait, before you tap out, wait, did you say. 100 times before you tap anybody.

Yes. Yeah, that's going to depend. If you have other white belts in first day, guys, let's say you've. Yeah, of course. If you've been training for three weeks, you can tap out somebody that hasn't been training ever. Yeah. That's how fast you can learn jihitsu.

Yeah. When I, the first moves that I learned, I probably knew like a month's worth of jiu-suitzoo, but no one could hang with me because I knew like the basic stuff. No one even knew what to do. Yeah. Yeah.

Consider a rear naked choke. All you have to do is you can learn the rear naked choke one day in the beginning of class and all you have to figure out when you roll. If a guy doesn't have much experience, all you have to figure out is how to get on his back. It's all you got to do. It's really cool when you teach kids. Jiu-Jitsu.

Like, you can say something like, you could give them the class on how to pass the guard. Yeah. Right. And they would start to do what you told them to do. Or you could say, okay, your goal is to get out of their legs and get around them. And they'll figure out how to do it. Yeah. And it's pretty awesome.

Yeah. And then what you do is you give them a couple little pointers. Yeah. Because their instincts will be a little bit off, but you give them a couple little pointers, a couple things to work with, and then they'll develop those into some really cool stuff. Yeah. I don't know if I said this before, but that even is true, not as much, but is still true with adults. Because if you teach them the technique first and then you say, hey, those techniques I taught you, that's passing the garden.

And it doesn't, it's way easier to like get, it's almost like getting a big piece of clay in being like, okay, make the head, make the body, make the arms, that's it. And then be like, okay, now you got the arms. That's cool. Now I'll make the fingers. Now I'll make the, you know, and then start to go with the details there as far as the technical. techniques with like passing the guard. But I, that's how,

actually, that's how I learned from Dean, where he would teach stuff, but I would just see him like getting past. And I know, okay, when he gets past you, that's like hard to get out of.

So that's what I want to try to do. And when guys would get that. Affirmative. Yeah. So it, I thought, I thought that it really worked better that way just to teach that way

if someone's starting from zero. Yeah. Because it's hard to put into context when you don't know anything. You're like, yeah, I'm doing this cool, like,

It's cool doing the intro class at the muster. Because you have a lot of people that have never done Jiu-Jitsu before. And that's like how and how you're saying to teach is exactly how we teach. Like, hey, this is the concept. And then we teach a couple little moves of like what to do there. And then you watch people get after it. And they do get after it. It's pretty cool.

Yeah. But yes, here the reason for this, this goes for anything, by the way. If you are successful, especially if they're all, if they're kind of similar like in this case where he's like, okay, martial arts, right, jujitsu. I'm going to start jujitsu way late. Meanwhile, I have experience doing muay Thai boxing. So if he has experience, assuming he's been somewhat successful, not necessarily in competition, but not not competition, just he knows what he's doing. When he throws a punch, he can have a level of success of that punch landing, you know, like, and it's going to be pretty often if he has 20 years experience, give or take, whatever. So he's experiencing little,

how should I say, little micro successes when he jumps in the boxing situation. situation a moita. And jih Tzu's getting macro failures. Macro failures all day, all day. It's a huge chore and that's life. So if you look, if you're, if you're going in with nothing, you have no micro, you know, successes, no nothing.

You're just going in, I don't train anything. I go in, sure, I'll take some hits. I'll take some failures because I'm learning this new thing. But if you have it compared to, look, I'm gonna come into Victory MMA. I'm gonna see the kickboxing situation going on, and say Jiu-Jitsu situation going on. My brain is automatically,

going to be like, okay, what's going to be the best experience for me right now? Micro victories. I'm going to go where the victories are. I'm going to go where the payoff is. You know, those payoffs where I can land punches. I can do, I can know what I'm doing. Dang. When I move my body, it does what I want it to do and it yields success.

Yeah, it's effective. Or I can go to Jiu-Jitsu and where everyone else has success. Everyone else is getting their payoff. Not me, by the way. Everyone else is. I'm getting tapped out and that part in and of itself is like that's, especially if you're a guy, Is it a personality thing where some people, as soon as they get tapped in jih Tzu, they're like, oh my God, I need to learn this immediately.

Like, you know when you, you know, when people get the jih Tzu bug? Yeah, sure. Yeah. Not everyone gets the jih Tzu bug, right? Not everyone, a lot of people do. Well, what percentage of people get the jih Tzu bug? Oh, dang, I have no idea. 20%?

30%. Depends, like 20% of who, of all people who start do Jiu Jiu Jitsu? Yeah. It's probably not even 20% I don't think about it. It's weird as much as there is Jiu-Jitsu, as much as we talk about it in a very positive way.

People, normal people, have a hard time with it. It's weird for me to admit that. It's weird for me to say that. But if I think about it, I've talked about this before, like of all the people that I've introduced to Jiu-Jitsu over the years, I think I have like maybe four black belts

of people that I fully, like they, They started Jiu-Jitsu because of me. I'm talking, so that with those percentages, it's very, very small. People that actually stick with it and get the bug. Yeah. Might not even be four. And you can get the bug and the bug kind of wear off.

You know how that is? You know, I remember. Then that's not the bug. That's not the real bug. That's like the diet. Yeah. The bug light. That's exactly what it is.

Yeah, well, it's a bug light because people get a purple belt and then they don't show up anymore. With the brown belt, they don't show people. Don't get the blue belt and they don't show up anymore. Yeah. Yeah. And then there's people who get the black belt. Keep training. Yeah.

That's the bug. That's the real bug. Yeah. Fully. I used to think like when you dream about it, you know how like you'll dream, you'll learn to move and you'll dream. It'll just kind of be in your thing in your mind, you know, conscious and subconscious. I thought that that was kind of it. But in my experience, that goes away sometimes.

It depends on what you're into. But I don't know. Yeah. But nonetheless, that's it. That's what I think. Because that's pretty common. Yeah, for sure. For sure.

So was there like an actual advice? Yeah. Like do you think you? Yeah, I would have. So my answers are yes, I would have stunned Jiu Jitsu because I would have had the bug. And my advice is if it's a chore, keep doing it until it's fun. Yeah. The thing is, it is fun to get beat.

It's fun to get like, it's fun. It's fun to have, like my favorite people to train with are the people that give me the hardest runs. Yeah, I know. And my absolute most favorite people to train with are the people that actually can get me. I know, but it's again, you have to have this. There's this third factor here where the kickboxing and boxing is right there. I could be right there right now. Winning.

And winning. You know, just doing it. And but I'm not. I'm over here. And this guy's mounted on me. And he's choking me and stuff. Like, man, it's, I dig it, man. It makes sense.

So I guess we could reverse this question. Say like, okay, Jocco, then why aren't you in? boxing and striking all the time. For me, that's a pretty, it's actually not that hard of an answer. I've done boxing and striking. And the thing that is different is in boxing and striking, even though you're talking about micro wins, most of the nights of training, boxing, or kickboxing, the micro wins are against pads and a bag, right?

Because you're not sparring every night. And if you are sparring every night, you're making a mistake. Yeah. And you're not even going as hard as you're not going to be competitively. I mean, you can have fun. And we do that too. Like we call it playing tag where you're like you're like touching the person. You're, it's almost like a slap fight, you know.

But you can't do that every, you can't spar every night. And you shouldn't spar every night. And if you are sparring every night, you're wrong. But you can roll every night. Yeah. You can get full victories, not micro victories, full submissions. Yeah. So.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I agree. And I think that if you. it really depends on who you are but to me that was the the big time appeal and still is the legitimate appeal of jiu jitsu where you know how like people even now they'll be like hey but this martial arts is superior because this and that but really jiu jitsu is kind of being

tested the best because it's going against in a full speed enemy quote unquote enemy who's trying to fight back it's funny when people are like how would you ever get someone's arm there you know what I mean they're like oh yeah you get the good eat that armlock try that on me it's like oh okay cool yeah what was I just reading about didn't um Gordon Ryan just beat somebody

he like called it yeah he called it Minamar 7 yeah he was like I'm gonna beat you with this and he did it within this amount of time did it that's by the way yeah and that's how it is man and that's against a high level guy well Gordon Ryan's obviously one of the best guys

right now um but that that is kind of how jujitsu is, you know, unless it's like some huge giant, like football player just spazzing and running away the whole time, if you're, if someone's engaging you, that's kind of how it is, where you're like, oh, I can choke, if they don't

know jujitsu and you know Jiu- Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. They're like, how are you going to get my arm there? Gordon Ryan did not do that to someone that didn't know Jitza. I know, I know. And that's the funny, because that's, those are Hickson stories, you know?

Like, Hickson would be like, I'm going to, every, all of you 14 black belts, I'm going to arm lock your left arm. All of you. And he'd do it. All of them, black belts. Yeah. Damn, that's a big deal.

You heard those stories, right? Yeah. I rolled with Hickson. I've talked about that before. Yeah. Hickson's really good at Jiu Jitsu. Sure. Yeah.

But yes, but I don't know though. So what do you do though? Like what's the advice? No, no, no, no. Back to the question. My advice is, like I said, that's why I think my new rule is train until you submit someone that is legitimately comparable to you. Yeah.

And then if you do. don't like it still, then don't train. Like, there was one guy on social media that, like, kept coming back to me, like, I know I hate Jiu-Jitsu. Yeah. I hate it. I hate it. And I was like, after a while, I'm like, okay, can you defend yourself against, you know,

a takedown? Can you get up from the bottom? Okay, then go find something else to do and quit complaining to me about it. Like, everyone is not meant for Jiu-Zitsu. I get it. Yeah. It's fine. Yeah, but it still, it is beneficial, though.

It feels like it feels like it is for everyone. It's what it feels like. That's what it feels like. That's what it feels like to you and me. Yeah. the people that we hang out with. And that's why when I was saying like, some people don't like jujitsu,

it's really weird for me. Yeah. To understand that. I have a hard time with their perspective. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yep. That's me.

Mr. Mr. Understand their perspective. When you tell me like, I don't really like judicitsu. It's like, why? Why would you not like it? Straight up.

Yeah. I'm glad you don't like it. It makes life easier for me. One person I don't have to worry about being able to choke me. Yeah, for sure. Okay. I would say this. Uh-oh.

Try this. If you in this situation. This is what I would do. Try to forget about, like, when you're like, okay, I'm going to go jujitsu tonight. Forget about boxing as a concept. Forget about kickbox. Forget about it. Like, don't think about that.

Like, your whole thing right now is, like, is just jujitsu. And think of it as, like, just this complete learning experience, of course. But forget about the boxing. Because anytime, like, that's what's going to happen when you keep that boxing on your mind or the keep boxing on your mind. You're like, for why am I doing this when I could be doing boxing? like badass anyway, you know, kind of thing. But just forget about it. Yeah.

I think that's the thing. You know how like guys in the UFC that'll happen sometimes where they're super good at Jiu-Jitsu? And then they'll train boxing and like phone it in. And it's vice versa too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I was just saying like some people, and this is true with fighters. Some fighters don't like striking.

They don't like to get hit specifically. No one minds punching people. Some people like it. Some people like they, they, They truly like to punch someone else in the head. Some people are good with it. Most people are good with it because it feels good. Some people don't like to get hit.

They really don't like that. Some people don't like to get smashed on the ground. They get claustrophobic, right? They don't like that. And so different people have a little different, I don't know if call them weaknesses, but preferences. Yeah. And you can see that very clearly,

especially in the earlier UFCs. Nowadays, you're not getting the UFC if you're super uncomfortable in any arena of, martial arts. If you're just, if you're just super uncomfortable, stand up, you know,

maybe you might make an undercard barely, but you don't see that on TV. Yeah, you don't go as far for sure. There you go. I like that rule. Do it until you tap someone out. Yeah,

comparable to you. It's good. Because what I think happens once you do that, you're like, I want to do that again. Yeah, yeah. And you got the benefit

of getting tapped out, which is a bet, which to me motivates me more than just tapping someone out. Yeah. Like, how did someone control me? think about that another human being can control me completely yeah Dean does that to me sometimes and I'm sitting there thinking to myself I'm like man I've been training for a

really long time me and I'm a grown man yeah in good physical condition relatively strong and he can hold me in a position where I cannot do anything and I can actually do that to him too not as clearly not as often yeah but like we he's got he's got three positions he can do it to me and I think he can cross side mount and on all fours right if I'm in one of those positions or he's in one of those positions on me he I'm doomed for me it's only I don't have a mount on him but his mount escape is awesome and my mount's not really good so he's he can get out of that so it's no big deal but cross side or when he's on all fours I'm going to torture him and we both know we're going to get tortured in those positions

for him it's two for him there's two positions he's going to get tortured in for me there's three positions i'm going to get tortured yeah tortured yes sir i would agree you've seen it yeah yeah it's tortured yeah you felt it too yeah all both examples all examples except the mount though i can escape mount you have good mount yeah no mountain escape yeah you have thank so not is but yeah no that's bad i dig it that isn't that weird though you have you know 25 over 25 years experience train very strong and big by the way like compared to like a normal jiu jitigai like you're a big you're a thing That huge

Jiu-jitsu player Big, strong experience know what to do, know what not to do. Oh, that doesn't mean anything for that moment. Doesn't mean nothing. Holy cow.

Yeah. That's bad. It's a scary thing. Yeah. Next question. Good evening. I'm a firefighter paramedic and I'm still the rookie

at my station. The fire service is notorious for politics within the ranks and rookies often get the worst of it. My question is, how can I implement extreme ownership in a situation where the blame falls to me anyway.

How can I have my superiors view this as a positive trait when every rookie gets the short end of the stick? And when none of my superiors are willing to engage in extreme ownership. I'm taking ownership. However, the typical response is along the lines of, that's correct. It is your fault. Dang. Yeah. You know what?

That's correct. It is your fault. That's what extreme ownership is. That's what it is. That's what it is. That's what it is. That's what extreme ownership it is. You're saying it's your fault.

You're not just saying it so they leave you alone. You're saying it because you're taking ownership of it. Then you can fix what is wrong. That's what it is. And I will tell you, the boss will notice. He will. He'll notice. And the people above you in the chain of command will notice.

They will notice that you're taking ownership. They'll notice that you're solving problems. So notice that that will then give you a good reputation. But taking extreme ownership does not absolve you of the blame. That's the opposite of that. You are at fault. That's the whole point. That's the whole point.

And this is one of those classic questions. I get asked all the time. It's like, what if they say it is? What if they say that's right, it is your fault? That's what you're saying. Yeah. So it doesn't matter. It's true in business.

And it's true in life, too. If you're blaming other people for things that are going wrong, you're not going to fix them. You can't fix them because in your mind, you don't control them and they're not your fault. So if you want to take extreme ownership at work and in business and in life, stop blaming other people and blame yourself and realize that it actually is your fault. That's correct.

Own it and do something. about it. Do you think that sometimes like this, you know how some people will, like at the muster, people say to ask you this and they'll say it'll be similar to this where they'll be like, like I'm trying to take extreme ownership, but, you know, something like this happens. And then you say, well, yeah, like you take extreme ownership, you actually take the blame and then you talk about how you're going to fix the problem, right? Like that's how you do.

You don't just take, you don't say, you don't say, yes, my fault. And then boom, we're good. We're done. My bust kind of thing. It's, that's ego. It's funny because your ego is like,

if I say like echo, this went wrong and it's my fault. And then you go, yeah, yeah, you should have done a better job. I get, that's the, I talk about this all the time.

That's my defa. I'm like, oh, what are you talking about? Well, you know, I would have been able to do it better if you would have done, blah, blah, blah, blah. So even though I'm saying I'm taking ownership,

I'm not actually taking ownership. Yeah. So that was actually going to be, my question. Stop making. excuses people so it's almost like maybe it all of time but it's almost like like let's say I did something and I messed up I caught my own mistake right in the middle of doing it I was like man I'm so dumb and it was a dumb mistake with I'm so dumb and you said yeah you are dumb and I'm like wait

don't call me dumb yeah right it's kind of like that right it's like man you just said you're dumb kind of thing you know what else is funny as too is you hear people make excuses like but instead of taking the blame instead of taking owning the excuse. So like, let's say, I wasn't prepared for a podcast. Or let's say no, I said, hey, we're gonna,

we can try and record on Wednesday, but I don't think I'm gonna be able to do it because I have this going on and my dog did this and my kid did that. And I'm making excuses. Instead of saying like, hey, I didn't plan well enough and I didn't anticipate some things

that I should have anticipated. And now I'm not gonna be ready. Right. Yeah. It's my fault. Yeah, yeah. Now, if you get in, this is what happens,

and this is the difference, man, if you have the habit of actually saying like, hey, I didn't anticipate this and it's actually my fault, then you know what you do? You plan better. Yeah. How many times have I called you up and said,

hey, Echo, I'm not ready to record the podcast. Yeah, a few times. No, actually, no. You said I might not be ready. And then? Right. Probably got mad at yourself.

Yeah, got mad at myself. And but I was actually giving you a warning of like, hey, I'm going to be, it's going to be tight. But I knew I was going to have to work to try and get it done. What I'm saying is when you truly say like everything that's happening in my world is my fault, you don't make excuses anymore up front. You, you, and even if you do, you say like, hey, here's what's going on. And this is what I'm going to do to get over to them. Yeah. It's a big difference, man.

It has a huge impact. Yeah. When you're saying, here's a good one. Like this is one of the probably the most common thing of anything in any excuse is I don't have time Is there any more common excuse that I don't have time besides the dog ate my homework? Right? I don't not that I know of no by the way one time the dog literally ate my kids homework He was all chewed up. Yeah, well, I'll get your homework Keep your keep your in a dog secure area. Yeah, so there's no there's no bigger excuse that gets used more common

At least for like a long-term goal like like a like hey I want to you name it. Yeah. I want to play piano. I want to play piano. I want to play guitar. I want to write a book. I want to study.

I want to get my degree. All this stuff, right? Anything is just, I don't have time. I want to get in shape, right? I want to run every day. It's all, hey, even, even I want to spend more time with my kids, but I have time. Yeah. So that's the, that's the pre-given excuse.

But when you blame all these other things, the time, it's not your fault that you don't have time. Right. It's the fault of the, schedule. It's the fault of the weather. It's the lack of time. The fact of the matter is if you take ownership of that, if you take ownership of the time,

you will have time because you'll make time. And when I call you up and say, hey, I might not be able to get ready. What I'm doing is like saying, okay, I'm giving him a warning. And then I'm looking at my schedule going, where can I finish prep or where can I prepare for this?

Yeah. When can I get this done? That's the ultimate excuse for so many people. I don't have time. And the minute you say that you don't have control over the time, you do have control over the time. Guess what? Hey, are there people that are working three jobs? Yes, there are.

And might they have, are there things that they're going to have to edit out of their schedule? Yes, there are. One of the first things you should edit out of your schedule, YouTube, social media surfing, internet surfing, right? What else do we do to waste time? You know what I mean? Like we waste time doing things. TV. So that way, if you, if you have an excuse,

turn it back on yourself and take control of it. That's all I'm saying. We got, you make the time. You make the time. Yeah, a little time saving element. I don't even know if it's a tip. It's just a little thing to consider. When you cruise, cruise extra hard so you can get it done in half the time.

I'm disciplined with my time. time so I can cruise. Yeah. Sometimes. Discipline equals cruising. Yes. That's the freedom part. The time is like a, it can be kind of like a balloon, you know, with like little leaks in it.

Where, you know, you want to like time will just kind of leak away, right? So if you're not, you know how like, in fact, you're, I think you were the one who kind of told me where it's like, you should, you should like plan kind of everything. You got to go just plan it all and get it done. And then the rest of that time is all is your time. Open free. Yeah. So if you're like, okay, I have stuff to do today, but I'm not going to plan it necessarily. I'm just going to sort of get it done tomorrow at some point. You could get one thing done. You could just be, you know, messing around or whatever. And then you get another thing done. And you kind of like, dang, that took me kind of all day a lot of times. So, you know, especially you have like three, four things. But all those like little in between times. If you can add them all up. But sure, okay, a workout takes, let's say you really want to go hard and say I want to work out for an hour and a half every day. But I don't really have a free hour and a half in a row, right? Because I got to go. pick up my kids and I gotta go do this I gotta drop them off I gotta do all this stuff

But if most of the time If you're like okay I'm gonna schedule all these things And I'm gonna boom boom and get them all done Then it's almost like you're shifting your time So it doesn't just leak through The little things that you have to do When you allow it to I think it was you that originally talked about this

How much work people get done before like vacation Like they know what they're going on vacation So they work up blah blah blah get everything done Do that every day Yes You have more free time Yeah. Just even like when you're leaving,

hey, this is what I found myself. I did this the other day. I went, I actually went to 24 our fitness. Got a good workout, by the way. So I went 24th, got my workout or whatever. Came out, came in my truck. I was checking, checking the crypto stuff.

But so I got my truck, checked it, and I was checking it. And then I'd like check some other alerts, you know. Checking it, boom, boom. And then I left. So I remember when I put my phone down and I started. it up and I left. I kind of looked over in and you could see the window of 24th Fitness and you know the people that work at the front desk are there. So I, for whatever reason I'm thinking

to myself, I wonder if they were watching me like, oh, another person addicted to his phone and they kind of just had that thought, you know, that I thought about was like, wait, that was like a good maybe 10 minutes. Oh yeah. That I just like let leak away right there. Hey, if that was part of my schedule, if I needed to check these things for sure, I could have like if that was on some sort of a schedule or if I chose to do that at a specific time I would have got that 10 minutes back somehow like that 10 minutes wouldn't have leaked away

no I actually by the time I left the gym at that particular time if I didn't let that 10 minutes I would have been home already doing other stuff that I should have scheduled yeah work doing it yeah exactly right and we do that all day that kind of stuff don't let your time leak

but another thing where another time or another situation where this works what you're saying about this taking ownership and for real take ownership. Don't be like hey, you know, it's my fault. Then it's your fault and be like oh, why does everyone say it's my fault? Kind of thing. I'm not saying he said that, but I'm saying that is

apologizing when you apologizes someone. You know how like someone's like, hey, hey look, me and you had a disagreement. It escalated whatever. Then the next time, I'm like, hey man, I'm sorry. You know, but you did kind of say something, you know, but I am sorry, you know, kind of thing. You know, yeah.

Right. So you're putting a bot on there? Yeah. And your point is like it's not real. It's not a true apology. It's not effective at all. Or if you explain, like, but I was just feeling this or, you know, it's just, anytime there's not a, like, a full on 100% full speed apology towards someone, like don't mention the reasons why you felt that way.

Don't mention any kind of justification on why you went there with your mind or whatever. It's all just like, this is what it did. This is all like terrible and whatever. And I'm straight up, sorry. That's effective. Yeah. Speaking of apology. next question.

I'm sorry for taking so long with that. And, you know, but you were really hanging me on. I'm just saying. Next question. Jocko, the military taught me to never apologize. Speaking of which. Because it's a sign of weakness. Had a conversation with a coworker who says that extreme ownership is the same as apologizing.

So, first of all, no. Apologizing is actually not a sign of weakness. And whoever was putting that out, whoever taught that was actually too insecure about themselves and their leadership capability to admit when they were wrong or made a mistake. And really insecure about a lot of other things, most likely. People, it's actually the opposite.

People that can't admit their mistakes are weak. And people that can't apologize when they screw up are weak. They're scared. They're scared to take ownership and they're protective of their ego. Now, that being said, extreme ownership is not the same as apologizing, but they're definitely similar. You know, extreme ownership means you're admitting that there's some kind of a problem and you're taking ownership of that problem.

If it's something that you did wrong, then you're taking ownership of that mistake. The key part, as you already said, is not that you're just owning the problem. You're actually solving the problem. And yeah, if you screw something up or you make a mistake, then apologize for it. Apologize for your shortfalls. And then you can move forward. Sarah Armstrong, she's said a couple times on Twitter when I've said like, yeah, say you're sorry. She said, ask for forgiveness too.

I haven't tried that one out. But she seems to think that that is another. And when she says things, I listen to her. She's a smart woman. I think we talked about that. I think it might have been Sarah Armstrong. Oh, wait, she said that long time ago, right? A long long time ago.

Okay, yeah, you see we talked about this before. And here's my take on that one. Say it again. I'm not 100% on that one. Like, ask for forgiveness. This is why, yeah, yeah, I will. Because it's this. If someone, I dig it as far as, like, doing it.

It feels like it does feel like a humble kind of approach, but it can be taken like this. So I would take it. And I don't think I'd be wrong most of the time. Where when it's like, okay, I'm sorry. You know, I'm, I'm, I messed up. It's all me.

Whatever, right. So it's almost like you throw the ball in their court to be the bad guy. It's kind of like, so it's almost like a guaranteed way to get forgiven. That's what it is. And it's kind of like I know that. So it's like, this is me strong arming forgiveness from you. It's like shaming you into forgiveness. Oh, so you're saying if you're like, if I say, hey, Echo, I'm really sorry about this.

Do you forgive me? Yeah. Oh. I got to say yes. If I say, no, I'm the bad guy. Posing on you. Posing, strong arming them. That's interesting.

We'll have to get some feedback. I'm sure Sarah will give you some feedback on that. Yeah, it's subtle, but, and I'm saying really, it's more prevalent for what? I don't think I've ever asked for a person's forgiveness. I've said, I've said, you know, sorry and apologize for all kinds of stupid things that have done. But I don't think I've ever asked for forgiveness. Maybe if this was something really big. Yeah.

Even then, man. Yeah, that's a tough one. I'm sure she has a little great reason behind it. We'll have to get further explanation. Yeah, I thought of that because I considered like saying that in some minor situation, whatever. And then I'm like, wait. In minor situations, it's too much. Yeah.

Like, you know, A, echo I show to play, man. I'm sorry. Will you forgive me? Like, no. Like that's a little too much. It's like saying, hey, I know I made you bad or something like that. I know I made you mad. I'm sorry.

You know, whatever. Are you still mad? It's kind of like that. Because if you say, yeah, I'm still mad. It's kind of like, all right. Hey, I said my piece. You chose not to be mad or you chose to continue to be mad. That's your problem kind of thing.

It's like, do you, please forgive me. Please forgive me. Like what kind of a dick doesn't forgive someone? You know? It's kind of like that. And they're bringing that so it's like a little strong. Like I said, we'll get feedback. It's an interesting, we'll get feedback from Sarah.

I'm sure. It's interesting to think that there's people out there and you know they're out there like, hey, don't apologize to sign a weakness. Yeah, yeah. Just being dumb. Yeah, I agree with you with that. Yeah, here's the advice for today. Don't be dumb. Yeah, it kind of goes,

the apologizing and taking extreme ownership, I say not similar. I think there's a big overlap there. Oh, there's a huge overlap. I didn't say they were not similar. Oh, no, no, not the same thing, sorry. Yeah, they're not the same thing. Yeah, yeah, there's a huge amount of overlap.

Yeah, it's like, well, back to the thing when you're like, yeah, if you don't apologize, that's weak or whatever, that's kind of like the guy who says, like, hey, this is how I am, take it or leave it kind of thing like if they're like you don't like those people yeah I mean if they're a dick you know or something like that and they're like take it or leave it some people love me some people hate me it's kind of thing and brother that doesn't bother you that people hate you because of how you are you know kind of thing that's an indicator yeah you know so it's kind of weird I mean yeah I dig it you know be you for sure but um I think that's something it's not nothing if

people hate you let's do one more question as a person in a leadership position what should I do if I consistently know notice one of my guys motivating the team and leading them successfully during projects and missions better than I can. The completion of the mission being the top priority, would it be better for me to back down and let my counterpart lead, which will benefit the company and its employees? And how will I regain my status among them? I think this one's actually pretty straightforward. If you've got someone that's doing a better job leading, then let him lead. Let him lead.

Give them some room. Learn from them. Support them the best you can. And the best way you can most likely support them is by getting out of the way and letting them do what they're doing and then get them the support that they need. And what this is going to give you the benefit of is now you can, instead of looking down and in and managing your team, you can look up and out and forward and see what is going on in the future

and prep the battlefield in the future or prep the next market area. or look for recruit, you know, you can move, you can lead, you can actually lead. And let that, you know, young buck handle the things that are going on tactfully on the battlefield right now. I used to say this to the seal leadership. I used to say, hey, the enlisted seal leaders handle the problem that is in their face right now, the tactical problem that's in their face right now. The officer should be looking at what we're going to do next. That's kind of really simple. It's not always like that, but that's a real good thing. starting point.

And so in this position, I'd be like, oh, I got a young buck that's coming up and leading well. Cool. That's going to allow me, allow me to look up and out and be ready to move forward and plan the next move. Now, as far as regaining your status as a leader, you won't really need to because if you do this properly, you'll be seen as a leader who is confident enough to let a subordinate leader step up and lead while I go and move forward.

You'd have to regain if you were there shutting this person down and trying to micromanage and doing a worse job, then everyone on the team knows that that guy could do a good job. Let him do it. Yeah, that's true. That's about confidence, really. It's about like, do you have, are you confident and are you secure in your leadership ability? To step aside. To step aside.

Someone's doing better than you can. Yeah, it's no problem. Yeah. We love it. Hey, you're really good at the school. You step in there and do it. I don't know a problem with that. Will you get the occasional person that's like,

oh, look, Jocco's letting that guy do it because he doesn't know what he's doing. Occasionally, yeah. One out of 20, people will be that big Mr. Negative. That's fine. Yeah. You know? Then what's cool is when you're on the outside,

guess what you are? When you let someone else run the team, guess what you have? Guess what you have? Detachment. Yes. Oh, echo Charles. Yes, you have detachment.

And so now you're going to be able to see things that even that leader that's better than you can't see. And then when you come in, you're going to look like the tactical genius because you point something out but they didn't notice because they were in the firefight. Tactical genius.

That's the way it works. Things good. Yeah, that's hard to do that. Man, when someone's doing better than you, you know? Oh, man.

Yeah. That's right. I mean, how you say it takes confidence is what you said? This is such a good example of keeping your ego in check because what you just said,

everyone feels that. And when you feel that, that's when you go, oh, cool. My ego's getting out of control. It's fine. Just put it in check and let this person lead

and I'll move, you know check out what we're going to do next I'll look ahead on the battlefield shoot I'm trying to think like how you said there occasionally there'll be a guy who'll be like oh he doesn't know he's doing so he's sliding I I've been in that situation where my boss actually

I've been the guy who my supervisor like said oh yeah you like you handle you take this you know you got this one kind of thing and I'm like yeah you're doing it because you don't know what you're doing kind of thing and everyone knew that and so I've been in that situation where I'm looking at them but now Think about this.

Think about if instead of him just saying, hey, you can go ahead and run this thing. Think of you would have said, hey, Echo, you're really good at this. You're better than I am. You step up, run this. I'm going to be over here looking where we're going next. What would you think then?

Yeah. So he's actually said that before, like a couple times. And every single time it made me feel way better. Like about the whole thing. Even the, I mean, of course. The truth will set you free. Yeah.

So I feel like if I was one of the, you know, one of the team guys on the teams thinking that, I think I would. wouldn't think that if yeah if he did that kind of stuff or if or if as long as he didn't act like this is the counterintuitive part of the ownership this is the count this whole it's counterintuitive you think that if you hide it yeah yeah yeah it's better and the better thing to do is be like hey echo's really good at this he's better than I am and he's going to step up and run this thing and people are like oh wow jaco's super confident his leadership they don't they don't they don't

verbalize in their head that right that's just the feeling that's the feeling yeah yeah yeah No, Jacco doesn't care who's running this thing. He's just, yeah, we're good. It's good, man. Yeah. So watch out for that. I get to remember, though. Just keep your ego and check.

Yes, sir. At all times. All right. Let's have a podcast that's less than 19 hours long. So how can you maybe give us a hand with helping be prepared and getting better in our lives? True. Be happy to do. No problem.

Okay. So we're working out. We're all working out. Yes, 100%. Right? Every day. Are we working out every day? So you don't have, not necessarily have to, but a lot.

We'll say, I recommend it. Yeah. We're not working out and then cruising for months. So we're all working out. Look, we're going to supplement our stuff. Jocko does have supplements now. That was kind of the plan. The plan has come to fruition.

That's the word right. Fruition. It is. Yeah. So you used it correctly. Yeah. See, all right. There you go.

So, krill oil, right? That's the main one for our joints. Actually, it's good for your eyes and brain too, by the way. So worry. I'm not saying don't worry about your eyesight anymore after you take this. I'm saying you can worry less. I'll tell you that. That's good.

So, yeah, Jocco super krill is what it's called. And joint warfare. That one's obviously for the joints specifically. But I'm sure that's all kinds of. I've noticed my, I have an injured arm. It's healing up quickly. Yeah. Like noticeably.

each day and I have to attribute because I've had this similar injuries before right it's an arm walk right yeah and as bad as this one was yeah little noises uh it it is noticeably I'm attributing that to joint warfare yeah and Dean told the other day I Dean told me exactly like like his version yeah of what happened and I know that I know that move that he shows and even when he shows it on me Dean's one of these guys where I think sometimes he doesn't know his own strength And what he's doing is super effective by the way It's like it's a Kimura that's what he's doing It's like the what he did to me was a straight arm lock

Yeah, so that's what it ends up being just so everyone knows I'll just make this real clear This was a this was an accident Dean was actually showing a move he wasn't even we weren't rolling it wasn't live He was showing a move and he's shown 10,000 and moves with me as the dummy. And I've shown many, many moves on Dean with Dean as the dummy. And he got this position. I had just arrived. And I don't know if that makes it worse or not, but I was definitely, it was cold, you know?

So I was cold and no warm up. And he was showing a move. So he's just, oh, yeah, I want to show this thing. I think he was like, you know, Jocco's got a good defense here. So you got to be ready if the guy does this. And then he's like, as he was saying that, I think he thought I was going to attempt this movement. and I didn't and he just he just and immediately in the arm so is that pretty much how he debriefed it to you yeah but the thing the reason I understood it more because he's like

a nice guy you know he feels yeah and and you know I mean it's it's a bummer yeah but it's it's not like he I know I know for a fact he didn't mean to do it but whatever yeah it's one it's basically how he explained it and he's done this move like I said as me as the dummy and it hurts by the way you know it's like he goes he goes I I didn't realize you weren't that flexible. I go, bro, it's my elbow.

There's no flexibility in an elbow. Well, it must have been a miscommunication just like I said, because this is what it was. It's like, okay, when you're going for the Kimura

from a cross site and the guy straightens his arm, you want to get his arm behind his back, bend his arm, basically, and behind his back. That's what he said. That's a move he's had showed

to me before, and it's one of his things, his tricks. And he said that, like, when he did it, I don't know, it was just like a miscommunity. You know,

like if you do it, It's kind of like you're just, it's just leverage to bend your arm behind your back. But dang, and it was, it wasn't your shoulder that jammed. No, no, no. And I'm thankful about that. Yeah, your shoulder injuries are worse than elbow. Elbows is like they heal, you know? And even this one, I can do like, I'm, it'll be fine.

Yeah. No factor. Yeah, you got the joint warfare. Yeah. Yeah. I attribute the quick healing. Yeah. To joint warfare.

Crill oil, which I always take, but joint warfare. Yeah. And that's, and these are one of those ones that is kind of like. Like, man, I wish I would have, it would have saved me a lot of pain in the past. I know. You know, like if your joints are just holding up. Yeah. It's more of a big deal.

It's good. And it's like I said, I mean, I had my shoulder where I couldn't do muscle ups for like six months. And then when we came out with the first like experimental, no, like the second experimental joint warfare. And I was on it. I was like all of a sudden I was doing muscle ups again. Yeah. Which is, that's awesome. Right?

That's awesome. Oh, shoot. Yeah. Doing muscle ups. Period is awesome because I haven't, dang, muscle ups. I haven't done muscle ups for decades. Really? I won't lie.

I don't think I've ever done a muscle up before. In four decades. I think I've tried to do a muscle up probably like three times in my life. We'll go. As soon as we get done, we'll go to do some muscle ups. Yeah, teach me the technique. It's just technique. Well, there's a little bit of strength, obviously.

Yeah. But if you know the false grip, which is this main, the main technique that needs to be learned, keep it in tight to your chest. Pull it to your sternum. Boom. Boom. Yeah. Throw your chest forward and you're there.

All right. Cool. New skill. Boom. muscle up. But yeah, if you want this joint warfare and jaco super krill, it is at origin, mane. com. Maine like the state.

Origin, main. com. Also at origin, main is where you can get your geese. Oh, but before the geese, I know. This is new, so I can't tell. This new supplement called the discipline. Pre-mission, pre-workout, pre-life activity, pre-life supplement. That's a good on.

Cognitive enhancements in there as well as physical. Pre-mission. Yeah. You're going to need your brain and your body. Boom. For the mission, boom. That's the one to take. Yeah, that one's good.

By the way, taste good too. Surprisingly, Jock actually made it taste good. Yeah. Cool. Well, because the big thing you got to watch out for is, you know, we don't want to spike our insulin level with sugar. Yeah. But we have monk fruit, which is the sweetener.

and and monk fruit tastes good delish and it also has some some positive impact on your physiology as well so double two

do we say there we say two birds one stone that's what you say in the industry right on yeah dang it does taste good yeah it's good lemon lime flavor

yeah there you go get that one but yeah that one too origin main dot com real good also at origin main like I was gonna say is geese for all the people who have been asking Dave Burke today called me today about geese like what up with the geese I'm getting my ghee and all this stuff you've been

no wait was he even questioning he was actually asking more well yeah he did he was like what gee should I get but then I was like well okay so you go origin and he was like no no I know that but which one and my size is the traditional ghee sizes just like A1 8, 8, 2, 8 3 boom you get it this one is kind of it's more suited for you yeah so he had some questions A skinny. I got a picture. I got to post this picture. I got a picture of Dave Burke and me.

The commander, I'm the commander of T.U. Bruiser. He's the commander of Lightning Six, his Anglico team. And I got a picture of us in Ramadi together on a rooftop. And we're both asleep.

I don't even know what it was taken, but it's pretty awesome. And it shows you like, like like you know it's awesome it's like we're both asleep we both have all of our gear on sitting outside on a rooftop of sleep so what is that like you you're just gonna get your sleep when you can kind let me just catch this quick yeah probably we my guess is we had moved into a position we'd stayed there we'd a clearance was going on the clearance was done and now we were kind of in a standby situation and we're just like now we get a chance of sleep because before we'd go in the field you'd be awake for basically like 24 hours. And then you go in the field. Matter of fact, sometimes it's like when you got in the field

is when you got your first sleep. Like after you get in the field and then you get your four hour, whatever, three hours, someone, you know, you get your head down and you get some sleep finally. Yeah. So there's me and Dave Burke.

It's racked out. Bro, and it's not like you're, like I used to three, four hours. I always, especially after hearing you guys talk, it's like, man, it's not like you're coming home from a hard day of work. And, you know, now you're, you've clocked out.

And now you have some time to settle down watch the news and go sleep for the night. It's not like that You know gonna catch some yeah. You're gonna catch you where you can so dang yeah. It's crazy So it's not that you guys are just falling asleep on the job Literally no no no no no not at all got to catch some some shut eyes like what that means is we were probably on the tail end of a Operation that we had conducted and we were now like in a stand down mode and maybe we're probably getting ready to move to another you know another quadrant, another sector, and we were just catching some rack ops. But it's an awesome,

it's an awesome picture because it just tells you how, like, tired. You know, we're both sitting in chairs, all of our gear on holding our guns, and we're asleep, both of us. It's awesome. Yeah, man. Bad. Nonetheless, Dave Burke, yeah, he called me. Nonetheless, that story doesn't matter.

You want to get a ghee. You're still looking to get a ghee. You want to get another ghee. You get it from origin, made in America. 100% made in America. From the seeds of the cotton. I said it. So you do the cotton all the way up to the ghee you wearing. People like when you say cotton.

Sure. And they like when you say important. Important. Yeah. Yeah. And mountain. Because you. I forgot about mountain.

Yeah, because you and I feel weird if I say mountain. Yeah. Mountain or important. It's like I'm not. Important. For me, that's just like a,

on the end. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I dig. It doesn't sound weird when you do it. It feels weird when I do it.

Unless you. Orjamein. That's the go there. They have a lot of cool stuff And it's all made in America That's the good part It's all made in America Also

For workout stuff Kettlebells Battle ropes Maces You're switching up your work Are you doing creative stuff Boom on it Onet dot com slash jaco

That's where you go The kettle bells The artistic one primal bells Demon bells Not demon bells Zombie bells is what they're called And Primal bells

Why primal bells Zombie Legend Yeah plenty of pick from those are the cool ones. I bought my daughter one a few months ago, by the way. She gets after it. Nonetheless, that's where you get them.

A lot of cool stuff on there. A lot of good info as well on it. com slash jaco. That's the one. Also, when you're buying the books that we occasionally, and occasionally mean very often, review on this podcast. Go to joccochop podcast.com.

The page, a little top menu there. Click on books on the podcast. Click through that. It's a good way to support. That's where you buy them. We have them organized for you. So, you know, you don't get lost or whatever. listed by episode

click through there Amazon Prime Next Day delivery Best way to do it My opinion Also subscribe to the podcast If you have not already

On iTunes Google Play Stitcher Spotify Wait can you subscribe On spot I think you can I don't know

I don't know either I'm not on Spotify But if you are on Spotify And you can subscribe Subscribe Also on YouTube video version of this podcast

also excerpts from this podcast the benefits of excerpts I think are kind of self-explanatory and I've explained them plenty of times so I'm not going to do it this time but yeah you can take you little lessons individually

so you don't have to listen to the whole podcast nonetheless subscribe good way to support also jaka has the store it's called jaco store jocco store.com This is where you can get the shirts. Discipline equals freedom.

A shirt with Jocko's head on it with the word good, written backwards. I'm not even saying why it's written backwards, but it is written backwards on purpose. Because people have been emailing you. And by the way, if you see a shirt with the good written forward, it's a fake shirt. It's a knockoff. It's what's called a counterfeit knockoff. It's bad. Actually, somebody posted a picture of, I think, I forget what it's a jocco's.

It's one of those, you know, those, okay, so there's like companies. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That they go, you know, they form stores on Amazon. And they just see a little something. Yeah, like some popular training thing. And though they print shirts. They're like low quality shirts. I saw one that said, you wouldn't understand it.

It's a jocco thing. That's the one I saw. Yeah. And they were like, hey, you know, I could. And he's being, cool. Hey, man. Yeah, good. You're supporting some random dude out there.

Yeah. And I, to me, the quote was that, I would never put that quote on there. I don't think you would. It doesn't seem like something you would put. It's a job. You would understand. You know, kind of whack.

You know, the guy looked cool in it and I dig it, but good, intention. Good intention. For sure, 100%. And I'm signing on in that way.

But I think, again, it's a situation where these companies, I'm assuming it's a company, I'm sure it's not just one dude, but companies, they get trendy stuff and they just offer them for print and on Amazon or wherever.

Yeah. And that's different. Yeah. That's what they call counterfeit knockoff. You could go to Jocko store and then you're definitely supporting the podcast. Yeah, jocco store.com, that's it. And there's some origin stuff like back in origin, Maine, they got your rash guard. You know, so origin stuff 100% in the game.

Also supporting the podcast. Legit. Other than that, it's going to be kind of hard to find, well, no, the T, Jocco White T. Joccois is supporting the podcast. Yeah. But anything else is going to be knockoff. You know kind of find that every once in a while. while. So just beware. If you care, if you care, I dig it. Because to me, if someone was wearing

it's a jaco thing, you wouldn't understand. They're like, hey, good evening or something like that. I'd be done. I'd be my new friend. We're still on the game. Yeah. So I dig it 100% either way. But I think that's more just info, you know, to be utilized. For your information. Yes. So when I way back to jaco store, there's women's stuff on there. Displine equals cream t-shirts, hoodies, hats. I don't think of, I didn't finish the beanies yet. But a meeting on Monday. You know that it's winners almost over. Yeah, you know, it's one of those things, you know. Okay, just checking.

We're trying. We're making sure you're aware of the seasons. They're the same every year. Maybe I'll do like a spring beanie. I don't know. You know, some rash go. Especially right now since it's negative 40 degrees in New England and Minnesota and Oklahoma. It's freezing out there in Michigan.

Yeah. You know, man. Sorry, guys. They're coming, though. It's all good. Also, Rashguards is a new rash guard. sodium one the essence of jiu-jitsu

small action big reaction you know and that got pointed out to me after I started wearing it by the way so someone applied a layer a layer yeah yeah applied a layer it was keeling Taylor who did it and he was like oh what's your rush card say it's a small action big reaction and he goes the essence of jiu jitsu

it is you know like the whole leverage and efficiency thing I was like dang bro you're you're deep speaking of judo Keeling, judo keeling. Yeah, yeah, he's black belt. He was originally judo player. Yeah. Legit.

Nonetheless, new rash guard out. It's cool. It's cool. The worried kid rash guards are out and in circulation. Oh, yes. In the wild, big time. In the wild. Not in the, no, I haven't seen a person in the wild, but I've seen them virtually.

Yes, virtually. Yeah. Cyber, the cyberspace wild. Yes. Pictures. If you will. Yeah, that's cool when people do that, send you the pictures. It's legit.

Nonetheless, yeah. jocco store.com that's a good one also psychological warfare of course if you didn't know what that is i'm gonna tell you it's an album with tracks jocco track and this is what it's for if you didn't know i'm gonna explain it this is what it's for on your path to i'm gonna make it like concise okay here's a good way to say on your path to greatness it's a weapon against weakness it's kind concise. I'm still working on it. I just made it up just now. Concise yet cheesy somehow. Yeah. Path to greatness. That's so cheesy. Don't say it again, bro.

All right. Yeah. C. C, what do you call it? The creative process. Yeah, this is like, no, that was just cheesy. There wasn't no process. Live on the podcast is the worst. Worst deal. All right. Well, hey, look, on your path. How about that? On the path, you're on the path. You're on the path. We're working out. We're working out. We're getting up early. Most of us, some of us, some of us getting up early. Um, sticking with the, the, dietary guidelines that can keep us in the game, hopefully, we better be. Nonetheless, every once in a while you'll hit that little roadblock, little speed bump, speed bump, not roadblock, speed bump, moment of weakness. All it is is a distraction.

Like, when you get hungry, you're on a fast or you're on, you know, like a really solid diet and maybe it's new or something, you're thinking long term. Hopefully you're thinking long term. Long term win. My diet's going to bring me my workout, my whole thing is going to bring. bring me to this long-term goal, right? You keep your eyes on that goal. You're going to stay on the path.

You get distracted by the fact that you're hungry at one moment. The fact that this thing right here, donuts, whatever, taste good. You're distracted by that. If you keep your eyes on the long-term goal, you won't be distracted. That doesn't mean anything. Yeah, I know I'm hungry right now. I'm supposed to be hungry right now. I didn't eat yet.

Of course, donuts taste good. They always taste good. It has nothing to do with this path. That's why. These are distractions. This psychological warfare is, it's like a little helper to keep you from being distracted. And as Jocco's telling us why we should not be distracted. All right.

Thank you. That was psychological warfare. We're just available on iTunes. It is. That's exactly what it is. That's the best way to explain it. You just explained it thoroughly. I feel like you don't, you know why you don't understand the value because you don't listen to it.

Yeah, I do. No, because you've never, yeah, like the, like, Like you having to use it, I think, is like the kind of, oh, you're just going to think to yourself. It's just part of the game, you know? For us, I have listened to it, but I don't like utilize it on the regular as much as you. So utilize something and get that little win with it. You're going to be like, okay, this thing works. This thing is legit, just like Jiu-Jitsu.

It's an album on iTunes, Amazon, music, Google Play, that type of stuff. That's where you can get it. Speaking of Amazon, also on Amazon, you can get something called Jock White Tea, which might sound like it's simple. Drink you know you put water you put some tea in the water what you don't know is that once you drink the tea You now have a guaranteed deadlift of 8,000 pounds So drink joccal white tea and deadlift more we got some books Way the warrior kid jiu jitzu

Studying reading working out it's for kids but adults can get something out of it too somebody posted a a straight up rocky training montage, but it was like an eight year old kid getting after it. And it was all, he's like sitting intensely reading Warrior Kid and then he's hitting Mitz and he's intensely reading warrior kid and then he's doing push-ups. So yeah, you can get that book, Wey the Warrior Kid. The next Warrior Kid book is coming out April 28th.

I'll tell y'all when it comes out and is available for pre-order. What's the name? What's the name? Can you tell us the name? Yeah, the name is the name is Way the Warrior Kid, Mark's mission. Yeah, Mark learned some new lessons.

I'll read some excerpts from it on the podcast in the coming months. Just, you know, some little tastes of Mark's mission. Extreme ownership, of course. That is the book that I wrote with my brother Laf Bavin. Combat Leadership for Business and Life. How to Take Ownership, which I talked a little bit about today. discipline equals freedom the field manual how to get after it mentally physically get some if you want the audio version of that it is not on audible it is on mp3 iTunes Amazon music Google Play and

other MP3 platforms echelon front is our leadership consulting company I had a guy was talking to potential client company was like, hey, can you help us establish a culture of leadership inside of our company? I'm like, that is what we do. So if you need help with leadership at your company, reach out to us. It's me. It's Laif Babin, J.P. Danelle, Dave Burke. Emails info at echelonfront.com.

Or you can go to our website, echelonfront.com. If you want a keynote speech, you don't know. need to go to a speakers bureau, you can just contact us at Ashlawnfront.com. That's the more efficient, effective way to make it happen. On top of that, we have the muster. We talked about it a little bit today. Sure. The muster is a leadership symposium where we talk about leadership. We train leadership, pragmatically, tools, you will be, you will, this is pretty cool, you will be a better leader when you come out of the muster. You will be 100%. I don't know if you'll be 100% better of a leader. You will have 100% chance or 100% chance of becoming a better leader. How much,

I'm not 100% sure on that figure. But you will definitely be a better leader. And when we got done, I think I've talked about this before, but we got done in Austin, and we were at Jiu-Jitsu, and we were teaching Jiu-Jitsu, and I was like, this is such a good deal, to get the information

that comes at the muster, to have that opportunity to learn these lessons from the battlefield that you can then take and apply to your business and your life. And on top of that,

like the icing on the cake is going to J-Jitsu and getting an introduction to that. So the muster, it's been awesome. It's been awesome to see how it's affected people afterwards that have changed their lives from coming to the muster. So it's awesome. Come and get some at the muster. It is this year we're only doing two.

One is going to be in Washington, D.C., May 17th and 18th. Then there's going to be San Francisco, October 17th and 18th. We have had four of these events up until now. They all sold out. these will sell out. So if you want to go, a lot of times when companies, companies have bureaucracies inside of them. And so they're trying to get the approval for the, you know, hey, we need eight tickets

and they're trying to run that through the chain of command and get the funding for the eight tickets and blah, blah, blah, blah. And we've had companies that have started that process too late and then we sell out. And we're sitting here saying, hey, sorry, the next muster's in six months. You can come then. You know what I mean?

So get busy now. Takes wild get through your bureaucratic system at your company to get your team sent to the muster. We'll see you there. Extremeownership.com is how you can register. And if you want to contact, maybe me, maybe echo, if you want to share something with us,

you have some kind of question, you have some kind of an answer, you have some kind of a comment you want to make, we're actually available on the interwebs, on Twitter, on Instagram. And on that other one, it's called the Faceable. Bochie Boa Hot. Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at Jocko Willink.

And finally, thank you for listening to the show. Thank you for supporting the show. Thank you for spreading the word. And for those of you that serve, thanks for your service, those of you that protect, thanks for your protection. and for those that have fallen, those that we never got to say goodbye to,

those that we never got to thank to all of you. Thank you and goodbye. And until next time, this is Echo and Jocko. Out.