Jocko Podcast - 111: Being At War.. In Life. How To Become The Ambush. With Jody Mitic.

Episode Date: January 31, 2018

0:00:00 - Opening 0:10:34 - Jody Mitic.  Dark times and how he got there. 0:33:43 - Jocko's (Limited) Experience with Drinking and Drugs 0:44:10 - The Military. A Crazy Life. 1:52:16 - Support:  JockoStore stuff, Super Krill Oil and Joint Warfare and Discipline Pre-Mission, THE MUSTER 005 in DC. Origin Brand Apparel and Jocko Gi, with Jocko White Tea,  Onnit Fitness stuff, and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes). Extreme Ownership (book), The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual, and Jocko Soap. 2:17:37 - Closing Gratitude.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 111 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. So, almost two years ago, I had a guy on the podcast by the name of Jody Middick. And we ended up talking for so long that we actually turned one podcast into two podcasts. The first one was a review of his book, which had, just come out it was called unflinching the making of a Canadian sniper and then we did a second podcast right after that that was just us talking and discussing some more of the details of where

his life had gone since that book had come out and those podcasts are number 24 and number 25 and if you haven't listened to those yet just stop here go back and listen to them first And in those podcasts, we discussed Jody's early life and how he ended up in the military and his sniper training and his two deployments to Afghanistan and the events of January 11th, 2007 when during an operation he hit a landmine and lost both of his legs below the knee. and from there he struggled to stay alive but he did and he made it back to Canada where he then struggled to recover from his injuries and then he struggled to adapt to his new life and along the way he struggled to overcome addiction to pain medications

that had been given to him so freely but he did overcome those struggles and made a new life and wrote a book and got elected as a member of the city council of the city of Ottawa and he continued to raise his young girls and take care of them and by all accounts we're talking about a model citizen in fact I'd go so far as to say a model human being but things aren't always as they appear and although Jody looked to be doing great by any measure behind that public persona the struggle continued and I saw a glimpse of it when Jody came down to be on the podcast I first noticed it when I made reservations for Jody at a hotel by my house and I just got a nice little hotel nearby me so I could pick

him up easy and didn't think much of it I gave him the hotel information that And then a couple days later, he called me up and said he needed to transfer to a different hotel because the hotel that I had made reservations at didn't have handicap accessible rooms. And of course, I felt like a like a jerk. But at the same time, I didn't really understand because I'd seen all these video clips of Jody walking around and and actually running around. And he'd gotten second place in this TV show called The Amazing Race where he's doing all these video clips of Jody walking around and, and he'd gotten second place in this TV show called The Amazing Race where he's doing all these. different challenges and I saw pictures of him and videos of him running and driving cars and and even riding motorcycles driving motorcycles so clearly there was something that I didn't understand that was going on and maybe he wasn't as

mobile as I thought he was and when I went to pick him up at the airport I wasn't really sure what to expect I didn't know if he's gonna be in a wheelchair I don't know if he's gonna need help getting around and as I drove through the pickup area looking for me wasn't hard to spot he was standing at the curb big beast's over six feet tall and he walked over the car with confidence when we really zero indication that he was walking on two prosthetic legs and you know so we recorded the podcast after afternoon and it took forever it was like five hours or six hours and then we got done with that we went grab steak and the next day you know he said hey can can you

me a tour of San Diego can you show me you know some of the sites around here and so we did that and I took him down to the the buds compound where the seal training is and then I took him to the seal teams and we went to the USS midway the aircraft carrier museum and we were walking all over that and and then he wanted to go down to the beach town where I live in so we we walked around there and it was awesome and he was enjoying it being down from the cold frozen tundra of Canada And as we got towards the end of the day, you know, Jody started walking a little bit slower and and I noticed on his face he had a look of discomfort, right? That he was, you could see he was trying not to really reveal it, but it was there. And then finally he said, you know, can we sit down for a minute? These things start to hurt after a while and he's pointing down at his legs. And I said, of course, yeah, no problem, man. So we sat down for a little while and he recovered a little bit and then we got up and we walked a little bit more. And then he said, hey man, can we sit down again? And I said, yeah, man, of course. So then we sat down for a little while. And then when he got up again, he said, hey, can we just head back to your house and maybe sit or sit around there for a little while?

These things are starting hurt pretty good right now. You know, the skin wears off. And it starts to bleed and, you know, it doesn't feel good, man. And I said, yeah, brother, no problem. So we headed back to my house and we went up on the deck and we sat there and just, kind of hung out and talked and it became clear to me Something I did know from my other friends that have been wounded badly that It's a lot harder than it looks

It isn't the bionic man and it's hard to adapt the intermingling of human flesh with mechanical parts is not a natural thing it's not a smooth thing it's a battle and it's a battle that's hard for us to perceive from the outside but it's a battle that takes place every minute of every day usually behind the scenes privately because as soldiers as Marines these men learn to suffer and bear their burdens silently and without complaints and it was here at my house that Jody explained to me why he needed a handicapped accessible room. He said, yeah, you know, man, I get home and I got to take my legs off. And then I got to crawl to the bathroom to use the toilet and I got to crawl to get in the shower and I need those

little handles to pull myself up. It's a struggle. And Jody suffered and struggled again, not outwardly, not in public but alone he pressed on and we kept in touch over the last couple years you know text messages and what's going on and did you see this and I sent you that and I watched as Jody continued on his journey of his life and it's awesome to watch and he got back to Canada and he started a podcast and he continued with his political career and he wrote another best-selling book called Everyday Heroes and You know from a distance everything appeared to be going great but again Things aren't always what they seem and

Behind all that Jody was struggling and A couple months ago I got a text a simple text from Jody and it read bro the enemy outflanked me now in military terms that's about as bad as it gets it means the enemy has attacked your weakness it means the enemy has the upper hand it means you have lost momentum in the battle and it means you could very likely be overrun and being overrun means that you're gonna get killed and I could see from that text that Jody was at war again not on the battlefield but in his life but Jody's a soldier and Jody fought back because that's what soldiers do and a little while later he sent another text that read I'm finally turning into the ambush and starting to fight through attacked the problems he's back on track again back on the path and came down to visit me and after talking to him a little bit

and discussing what he's been through. I asked him if he would come on and talk about it. So other people, not just veterans, but everyone that struggles. All of us can learn from what he's been through and what he's overcome. So here we are once again. And with that, Jody, Jekko. Welcome back to the podcast. Wow, you had me all getting the feels there for a minute.

Thank you. Yeah, man, it's, thank you for that. You were talking to me last night about, about the texts that you had sent me. Yeah. And you said, you know, there were some, there were some heavy texts I sent you, and I was like, really? And you said, yeah. And I go, did I pick up on it? And you were like, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I thought you did. Well, no, when I read through them, I clearly did. Yeah, yeah. And just through the responses and the conversation we were having. But that first text that you sent me, I was like, damn. And then I, of course, I went and went back on your social media, looked at what you've been going through, and you dropped off social media. And so you had basically reached out and said, you know, hey, brother, needs a little air support over on this side.

and so what happened from I mean just you leave here from the last podcast two years ago you go back to Canada yeah you start your podcast that was going great yeah great podcast oh yeah got a lot of people are listening to it getting a lot of feedback from people a lot of people hitting me like yeah Jody's podcast is great so you're doing that you're working on the other book that just came when did that book come out October last October last October hit the shells bestseller running boom yeah But I was already, I was already, hadn't done a podcast since May. Actually, last podcast I did was with some guys from Kansoft that started their own company, Taku Beaver.

That was like supposed to springboard us into the next podcast. We had some other guys coming in, some other Kansoft entrepreneurs. And we were starting to like kind of shift to supporting veterans and their business opportunity. Because it seems like we're all becoming entrepreneurs or the guys that will employ our. friends and things like that and that's what I want to focus on is how do we help the troops after they go through what I went through because I had zero plan nobody had really dealt with this stuff in Canada since Korea really we had some guys in Bosnia and that but the chain of command and the government frankly lied about the fact that

Canadian forces were in combat in the in the former Yugoslavia that all aside the point is we were we were trying to lead by I was trying to lead by example Luke my My echo, Luke, was trying to help out, and he was doing his best. And he was seeing the wheels fall off the Jody Middick machine. And he kept trying to put him back on and gun tape them and just do his best, though. Because him and I, it's not like we're close buds. Like, we're not like besties since we were kids or anything. So he's trying to keep his distance and keep that, like, Jody Midick podcast is Jody Middick's.

And I'm Luke. I could tell, too, and I kept telling my friends that, you know, that we're close. close as well. Like I can tell he really wants to help, but he's not sure. And then one day, um, so I had a kind of a perfect storm. So I moved out of my house in October last, October 16th. And, you know, I'll just get that out of the way. That was the beginning, really, of things going south. And it's not because, uh, my ex and I are enemies by any stretch. We're still friends. We have two amazing kids. We had amazing kids. We had amazing life it's just sometimes uh you know sometimes units don't mesh right and that's just kind of

the way it went you know we both have different visions of our future and and things like that so but then you kind of got to put on the the face for the public you know um and so i stopped going to the gym at that time i stopped seeing my therapist just because he's on the other end of town and i can't be bothered right now i got too many other things to do um and even when i was here like You said, you saw, I forgot about that walk. And you're right. I remember sitting on the wall at, is it Ocean Beach? OB, yep.

And I love, like, the Americana, that's what we call it in Cam. Americana history is amazing to me. In the California beach, each beach has its own history and the group. I love, and you're talking about it, and I'm looking around at all these buildings built in the 40s, 50s, 60s. And in my mind, I drove Route 66 to get here. Like I love the history of this of this country so much and then I was on Route 66 Until I saw the Pony Express Trail is to your left and I went okay turned left and I would follow the pony express trail down into Arizona But even then

Like you said like the pain was really hitting me and I'm terrified of the pills because of becoming addicted And so Okay, what do you do for pain if you're not taking pills and I'm not a weed guy like I know I talk about it and not everything but I don't know anything about it but I know a lot about Crown Royal and Jack Daniels and Captain Morgan and I are good buddies and so I found I went from having a beer after work or in my case I like cider I know I get made fun of for it but booze is booze boys you know what I'm saying I can't wait to have that cider after work or that that rum and coke

when I get to get to the get to the pub with the with the guys And the guys that you're talking about now are your fellow people you're working with in the government. A lot of them are politicians but also just some of the boys that, because Ottawa is like the biggest military posting in Canada. But also all the Cansoff are in that area.

Got it. So I got buddies that are coming back from deployment in Iraq on and off and they come in, they're home for a month, they're gone for three, home for three, gone for a month. So whenever you hear from them, you run out and of course they just got back from the sandbox so they want to have a beer or two and you know and I'm like okay because it might like I'm going going going I get up at six put on my suit go to work come home and I'm in pain the whole time

and from the pain you saw to October 2016 and then come spring 2017 now it's just it's reached points where I wouldn't but I was thinking about drinking before work and it's not because I'm like stressed out and I was stressed out but it's more like oh man like my because I there is a deadening of the of the pain for sure and it's like well Uber ride is only 12 bucks to get to work and this and that or my staff drives right by my place to go so I could have her pick me up and that discipline kept me from doing that for a while and then I had a trip to Oregon to go shooting at the Leopold shooting academy they opened there that was great

but before I left, I think I took my legs off for a solid three to four weeks. And I was in my wheelchair. And that kind of sucked because my car isn't set up to drive. You know, my place I got, which is like a block from the house, so it's not that far from the kids and the X and everything. So, you know, I'm seeing them a lot anyway and stuff, but nothing else in my life is set up to live without legs. Even like where I keep my coffee in the kitchen is for when I'm,

on my legs. So I'm in my, I'm in my wheelchair the first day, and I'm like, oh, I don't really make coffee when I'm in my wheelchair, do I? Oh, tongs, right? So I get tongs out of the cupboard. Reach off. I can do this, whatever, adapt, and then it's like, okay, time to go to work. Oh, shoot. And then I did call my staff, and she picked me up, or I took an Uber. But then I went to Oregon, and that was a week, like, it was about seven, eight, nine days on my leg straight, excruciating pain the whole time. Whatever was happening, the doctor, I finally went back and she said that, like, my skin had reached a point where it couldn't regenerate fast enough.

So it was just breaking down. And then the way I like to wear my legs was being rejected by the body. So I like to wear it, like, it's called a suction, a suction hold. So it's like a vacuum until you release it with a valve. And my body was like, well, we're done with this. But I'm like, wow, no. Me no leg leg sleeve Leg sleeve take away mobility

Me no wants And so my you know that if you're gonna be Dumb you better be tough You gotta be tough. Yeah And you know and and and and I didn't have I'm not living with with a medic anymore Right so she's not there to be like hey stupid Put yourself like take the legs off

And let someone take care of you My mom actually moved to Ottawa December 16 And I'm completely ignoring her advice because, you know, mom, mom's always going to try and look after you, but come on, Mom, I'm 40 years old, Jesus. And I was pushing away against a lot of the same things I would then, in the same day, would tell people like, hey, man, you got to let people look after you. You know, because I get texts. I probably same as you, right?

I get texts, BBMs. I get DMs on Instagram and Twitter and Facebook on my fan page and then the podcast page. Hey, what's going on? Like, I need help with this. and I'll be like, don't be afraid to go get help. Don't be afraid to reach out. Those around you love you, let them look after it. And I'm completely ignoring any of this advice myself.

Because I'm like, I kicked OxyContin when I was 22, I think, and on deployment, I stopped smoking just because I wanted to. I drink on the weekend. I don't need to drink. But even while I'm sitting there checking these messages while having a drink. I know. And I look back, I'm like, I'm so stupid. But I guess sometimes you got to go through. There's a reason why you're going to.

go back to basics. Is there like in your mind when you're going through that, are you thinking yourself, I could stop if I wanted to? Oh, every day. I just don't want to. Yeah. I don't, it's not getting in the way of anything. I'm still functional. I'm still at work. I'm still doing, to me, my main job was what I was elected to do, right? I have a four-year, in my mind, it's a, it's kind of like being in the Army where you're on four-year, four-year commitments. Right. So I'm like, well, right now I have a four-year commitment. I'm not drinking at work. I mean, at some point I did start drinking at work, but in politics and business, as you know, like sometimes after lunch, instead of going back to the office, you have a beer. And you're still working. You're still talking

about issues. You're still getting, like I used to get a lot of advice from, I shouldn't say used to. I get a lot of advice from the other more experienced politicians because that's what you do. And we all would have a beer or a cider and then they'd go back to the office and I'd stay and keep on the phone and, yeah, I'll have one more, you know, and then another group of guys would come in from, like, oh, hey, you're still here? Like, you know, so-and-so is already back at City Hall. What kind of drunk are you? Happy.

I'm a happy, go-lucky. I get a little loud, but it's not like, I'm like, hey, what's going on? But, you know, anyway, well, I know what you're asking. No, no, no, I'm actually just asking. I'm like you could you could still call on the phone and be like hey buddy blah blah you know some people when they drink they get angry some people when they drink they slur their speech really bad so you got all these different types of you know drinkers when I drink I basically just like am more of jocko yeah yeah yeah I'm more Jody yeah for the most part I do slur but even I could

be like I'm slurred my words today okay well I'll drink some water for a minute and then I'll get it back or I'll have a coffee um And I'm good. I'm normally, and even when I'm like, I rarely get fall over drunk, right, if ever. But just let me rewind. I know it's a long answer to a short question, but so May I get back from Oregon. And I'm just like dying. And then I had to go real quick down to Albany because of part of my job with the city is I'm the sports commissioner.

And I'm desperately trying to get the CrossFit games to bring the Eastern regional games to Ottawa. because I just think that'd be awesome to have in Ottawa. We got the UFC in Ottawa. I was a part of that, so I was really proud. And I said, when I got the job, I said, I want to do two things in the four years. You get the UFC and get a CrossFit games. So I'm still trying to do the CrossFit games.

I got less than a year to do it, but I think we can do it. But anyway, that's a lot of people that participate in CrossFit that listen to this podcast. Maybe they can start a little movement. I've met a lot of them. And you know what? The CrossFit guys are crafty. In Albany City itself, they don't want to lose the CrossFit games. So they knew I was in town, and they started to sweetening the deal, if you know what I mean.

And the CrossFit games go, well, Ottawa was offering us this Albany. What you got? Hey, it's business. I get it. But you know what? I'm coming back. I got back from that trip. That was about a four-day trip from Ottawa to Albany and back.

And when I was here with you guys, I didn't bring a wheelchair because that's what I meant by I crawl around, which is why I could stay at your house, but I don't want your kids seeing a grown man crawl to the bathroom. And it's not because I'm above crawling. It's just it's one of those personal things. In my own space, I'm not above it. And around, like, loved ones, okay. So that's why you want your own space and even, and stuff like that. So even when I visit my dad, I get a hotel room.

You know, my dad loves me and I'm not, but it's also my space. Or if I want to crawl around naked, I can, right? And so anyway, that's why that. So then I get back and I take the legs off. and I just, I can't put them back on. I look, I would like, I don't know if I said it on your show last time, but I have mornings where I look at my prosthetics,

I'm like, oh, fuck, sorry. Sorry for swearing. I know we're allowed, but I'm trying to be a little bit of a man, ECHO. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Echo, I don't want you having to edit out things that I say. Oh, good.

You're doing great. I took them off and I just looked, I just threw them across through him. I said, I can't deal. I have of a wound in my left stump. Did I show it to you? No. It's been there since April of 14.

And it happened. I remember the second it happened, my brother and I were doing an amazing race thing post-show in Alberta. And we did a little like, you know, go, hey, Jody and Corey from Amazing Race, we got a few bucks for it. And we gave a speech to some convention. And then I was walking down the airport to the plane,

and I felt something to go on my foot. And it's like having a hot spot when you're on a ruck march or whatever, except I can't really shift what part of my foot I'm walking on. I just can't. And it went from a little tiny like break in the skin to something the size. In Canada, we have tunis. It's $2. I know you guys still use the dollar bill.

Like a 50 cent piece. Like a 50 cent piece. And then back now it's down to like a pin prick of scab. But that's what are we talking now? We're almost four years. Right? And I had to mitigate that the whole time. And it was painful and I got a couple, I got two infections in the four years from it.

But that's where I was like, that's it. I need to let myself heal. I need to like let my body regenerate. Except now from that, and it took me until fall, late fall, to realize that when I did that, I might as well have stepped on another landmine. And I went through, it took me to the late fall to go, Because I was like, because that's when things really went south. Because you basically, not even basically, because you lost your legs again.

Yeah. I lost my legs again. Except. Because truly, when you were down here, even though you were in pain, bro, we were doing, you know, we were walking up and downstairs. We were, we were doing whatever. We walked all over that aircraft carrier. Walked over that aircraft carry. Up and downstairs.

We walked all over the seal compound. We walked through, you know, we. I loved it. I went out on the beach. When we walked out on the beach where you guys torture the, the recruits. Yeah. Every step I was like Because you got to dig through the sand

Yeah But to me that's hollowed ground bro Like when you took me to the grinder I remember standing there like This is the grinder I'm a Canadian army And but there's some things where you go You just you feel right

If I brought you up to the recruit spot For basic in the Canadian army You'd be you'd feel You get that feeling This is where soldiers are born Yeah that's it's I was gonna say There's been a lot of those little They have the little fins on the grinder

So what Jody's talking about is where they train seals. That first day in the movies, right? Yeah, yeah. And they have little fins. So, like, little dive fins. There's little, in the Marine Corps, they have boots. Yeah, yeah.

In the Army, they have boots. Painting on the ground. They paint them on the ground. Well, in the grinder at buds, they have little swim fins. Two little tiny swim fins are painted, and there's, you know, a couple hundred of them. And that's, when you get out there for PT, you stand on your little set of swim fins. And then as the days go by, there's less and less of you. Yeah.

Right? And then, and I've read, I've read, if I've read less than 24 Navy SEAL books from, from the beginning to today, right, yours included, I'd be surprised. I've read, I've read, I've read the, uh, the old Lerps, right? I've read about those guys. I've read about the original Rangers. I've read about the Canadian, um, American special service force. Actually, when I was with Rob, my buddy from the Green Berets down in Yuma, I was wearing

a Ranger up t-shirt that's like a special service forest tribute. You know, to me, like, that's our history. That's the history of soft in Canada and the U.S. and then, you know, and Buds and the Green Berets or Navy SEALs and the Green Berets were kind of created by Kennedy at the same. See, look at me, I'm a fucking nerd when it comes to this stuff.

So to me... You know, the... I haven't been there, but I've heard about it because a lot of my friends have been there. The Aussies, they have a parade ground, like in the middle of their compound. Have you been there? No, I've never been to Australia.

Yeah. The only time they use this parade ground, apparently, is at Memorial Services for their men. Yeah. And I believe that. No one walks on it. It's just in the middle of their compound. No one walks on it. Well, in Canada, we have a similar thing where if you're on the parade square and it's not parade, like, you're going on extra duty.

Like, if the sergeant major catches you on his parade square, A, you better be have a broom in your hand or you better be on parade. and if you're not, because it's usually like, oh, if I go from here to there, it's right across the parade square, but it's the short route. And it's like one of those tests, right? They're the new guys.

In the hallways of most units, the unit emblem is in the floor. And there's one of those sergeants that just has nothing better to do but to stand there and watch and see who steps on the... And even if you're like family of one of the troops,

what are you doing on my hat badge? And you get the knife hand. It's awesome. But when I was here, I wasn't going to not go see the grinder because my fucking legs hurt. Don't be a pussy. And I'll be honest, that first night

after you dropped me off, I had a couple drinks to ease the day. Like when we left your porch and you dropped me back at the hotel, yeah. I went and I had a few drinks at the hotel bar. You know, and I was

actually toying with talking to you about this stuff back then because it was bugging me then. And I'm like, okay, what do I do? Who do I talk to? Jocco's the kind of guy. Echoes. is the kind of energy you want to be around

and like, you know, and that's one of this, part of this, this trip for the last 10 days I've been on is kind of like refining. So a lot of my Canadian and American friends that have kept me on, on the straight and arrow or as that much as you can for Jody Middick. And, um, oh, bro, it's a constant wrestling match, right? The little evil and the good angel,

except a lot of times they high five each other. Okay, let's see what happens. And, um, and yeah, man. So when the legs came off, so no car. So now my mommy, Uber or my staff or my ex are driving me around.

All happy to do it. All not like holding it against me. But at the same time, man, I'm out of sandwich meat. Hmm. Okay, now I need to go to the store. Hey, mommy, can you drive my car and take me to the store?

And then that's, I kind of turn my hat backwards and kind of like, you know, try to like, you know, cowboy up and do it, but I took me again until, man, my daughter turned nine, September 19th. I think it was her, I missed a lot of her birthday from being hung over. And she was at this awesome trampoline place. And I'm in a wheelchair. And I remember getting there and being like, all I want to do right now is jump on

trampolines with my little girl. And I can't, A, and B, I'm an hour and a half late for her party because I decided to have too many drinks last night. And that was when I was like, what the fuck is really wrong with me? Because I couldn't really get it. And then what is the escalation, right? So you were down here with me. Yeah.

You know, we worked hard. We, because it is, you know, doing a podcast. Like when we do sit there and talk to each other about intense stuff for five hours. Then we went eight. We stayed up late. We get up early the next day. We go do all the stuff that we did. Yeah.

And you get done. You have a couple drinks, right? what does that escalation look like over time where you're like you know what you're not even saying like oh i don't know if i should have drinks you're like hey as soon as jocco gets in his car i'm getting some drinks right now is it something that you recognized is it something that you just you just said to yourself you know what this is going to make me feel better right now and i got i got to go i don't remember exactly what month i was here do you like i don't remember no i know it was a warm month in all in Canada like it was cool but it was spring or fall

well we started in December it was 24 podcasts in that's how many December of what 2015 so it must have been spring 4 15 yeah spring 16 so I remember in Canada it wasn't cold but like we were wearing still wearing down vests with with hoodies and stuff when I was doing my quick podcast for I left so at that time I was it was just the pain was just kind of like a couple drinks for bed right but even that was bugging me and that's what I mean like when I was, but then like if, if it had been this spring where we'd met, yeah, I would have been like, like this the whole time and like as soon as Jocco's gone, I might as just like last night when we had dinner, I might have just been like, fuck it, I'm having drinks.

Yeah. I don't care of Jocco's here because being around someone like you, like, and I used to be the guy who could, I don't need to drink. I'd go months and be like, oh yeah, I haven't had a drink. Like, you know, I'll have a drink. And you don't drink and you haven't drank and you haven't drank since you're. You were like in your 20s, I think you said. No, no, no. I haven't drank since I retired.

Oh, okay. The last time I felt the effects of alcohol, which I felt quite strongly, was basically the day I retired. Yeah, you're, the day I retired, which was October 1st, 2010. You know, of course, me and the boys, we went out. We had a bunch of drinks. I woke up in the morning because I still wake up early. And I woke up in the morning.

I was like, well, yeah, that's done because I got other stuff I got to do now. And basically, when I no longer had. we'll call them friends to drink with. Yeah. Then I was like, yeah, well, I'm done with that. And I just, ever since then, just haven't really, you know, I've had, and another thing is sometimes people think I'm, like, offended if they have drinks or whatever. And I'm not, you know? I remember, actually, I was on, the first podcast I was on was Tim Ferrissus.

And we got done with the podcast, and he, you know, we went out to grab some food because I was staying the night at his house. And we went out and we got some food. We got some steak. and he's like, do you mind if I have a glass of wine with this? And I was like, bro, I don't care. You're not like a reformed alcoholic. No, I'm not. No, yeah.

You just decided one day, you're like my dad. One day he was like, eh, this gets in the way of work. Yeah, that's kind of my attitude. It doesn't really, yeah. I mean, if I want to drink something that tastes good, then I'll drink chocolate milk, which I love the taste of. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that stuff makes me feel good.

Yeah. And I just, yeah, and people ask me about a lot of, and I need, it's something that I need to address on the podcast because the other thing is just I might as well delve into this a little bit right at this moment but when I was a kid I was into hardcore music yeah I was into and and the type of music that I listened to was against drinking and against the it was yeah punk the straight edge yeah we're talking straight edge we're talking minor thread yeah really yes absolutely and so it was almost and I was again I was never really I'm very I'm very I'm very I'm not real good follower so anytime there's some kind of a movement going on I'm always

like saying wait why is this movement going on why I'm I always questioned I just jump in I'm hard to get on board with something like that so it was around I wasn't like so there's a there's a thing with straight edge okay so this this thing was called straight edge it started in I'd say you'd the the epicenter of it was in Washington DC the first band really to coin the term was minor threat which is a punk band, a hardcore punk band. I've heard of them. I assume they were partiers.

No, not at all. Just by the name. No. And so one of the things that, one of the symbols of Straight Edge was, you know when you go to a bar, when kids used to go to bars for a show, for a music show,

if they were too young to drink, when the Bouncer looked at their ID card, they'd put a big X on their hands. And so the Straight Edge symbol was they'd put the X's on their hands, meaning, look, I don't drink. And it's actually funny because I took my, to my kids to see the white buffalo the other night in San Diego and it was awesome and but when they came when they showed their IDs they got the exes on their hands and I was like

oh yeah it all so is so what the straight edge kids would do is they would draw big Xs on their hands meaning hey look I'm not drinking so there was that and then that of course morphed into like a gang and there was you know by the time I was a you know middle teenager there was hard gang that would assault people that drank and would get crazy you get those guys together with the juggalo's yeah so it just so what so so so so when I was a kid I was okay and I wasn't like a full-on I wasn't drawing I don't think I know I never like had X's on you just weren't drinking but I but I understood philosophically right what was being said right which was look I want to win right I'm hardcore I want to be stronger I want to

be aware. I want to be alert. And drinking and doing drugs doesn't give me any of those things. So, at that point, so sorry, but even at that age, you understood the fuel that goes into the machine affects the performance. Yes. See, I didn't get that as a young man. Yes. So here I am. And it was, you know, I was in discipline. And, you know, I had a band. Before the Seals. Oh, yeah. I had a band, a hardcore band. The name of my hardcore band was rage of discipline. That was the name my hardcore band. That was aft, that's what, that's what Bronson's children, because my first band when I was like 13 was called Bronson's

children, but then as I got older and I got more hardcore, then it became a rage of discipline. There was also about nine other band names. Bronson's children. Bronson's children was Charles Bronson. He didn't drink? I don't even know. Oh. But Charles Bronson, we do know. Charles Bronson was a badass. When I was a kid, I thought Charles Bronson was the man because

he was the baddest man on the planet. Yeah, he was, you know, a tail gunner in a, you know, In World War II and he grew up in the mines When he was a kid when he was 10 years old or 11 years old he was working in the mines And until he was old enough that he used to have to wear a dress because he didn't have this Parents didn't have money to buy him clothes he had to wear one of his sisters dresses down to the mines So then he went to World War II and then he became and you know he's just had great movies

He always played this stoic character that was unemotional and so I was you know hey when I grew up I'm gonna be Charles Bronson of course So then we had a band it was called Bronson children well as we got more more hardcore eventually that name morphed into Rage of Discipline of which Elgin James was the guitarist Who's another buddy of mine that Echo has met who will come on the podcast at some point and tell his crazy life story Which I'm a big part of in the beginning until I joined military We got to hear the the pre military Jocko stories Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I'll be tuning into that one long story

Then I joined the military. Yeah, so when I joined the military What do I want to be? I want to be a seal I want to be a frog man I want to be the best frogman I can be. I show up at a SEAL team. Guess what Frogman do? Frogman drink. Okay, cool. I didn't know that.

Now that I know that, give me a shot of Yeagermeister because I'm ready to rock and roll. And that was sort of how you proved yourself and that's what we did. And I was immature and dumb. And despite everything I just said about like, hey, I'm a little bit,

I'm hesitant to really follow. Well, now I'm in the SEAL teams. This is my dream job. And this is what I want to do. And if you don't buy in, you're not in. Yeah. It's like, it's not, I don't even know if it's, it's just like, that's the way it is.

That's, yeah. My first drink, I was 17, right after I finished basic training. I show up at the regiment and they're like, all right, what are you drinking? And I'm like, because my family's full alcoholics on both sides. And it's nothing against them. Like, you know, grandpa was, my other grandpa was and grandpa's grandpa was and, you know, one of my uncle. Okay, they might hear this, but we all know what you do, okay, right? So not a big deal.

But dad, but dad was one of those guys. he was like, well, that just doesn't affect me. And me personally, like, you as a kid, I'm like, I don't really see the interest. Like, what, I'm going to throw up on myself and whatever, whatever. And I was one of those kids that say no to drugs actually worked on, you know, like, now I'm older. I'm like, man, I should have been smoking weeds since I was like 12 and shit. But I still don't, but I just, I just, like, you see the effects on people like, when I was a bouncer, I'm like, yeah, the guys who smoked weed were really mellow. Yeah.

And the guys that did coke and drank, like, they were the ones who were the problem. but when I get to the regiment the first night of parade is done and they're like okay what do you drink it I'm like well I'm 17 they're like this is an army mess like it's okay just won't worry we're all gonna keep it like

I'm not trying to tell the world like hey underage people drink but hey underage people drink but it's an environment full of people that are there to look out for each other anyway so I had a couple of drinks and I'm like okay this is the way it is and same thing yeah work Monday to Friday you work your ass

off you go hard as you can like you go hard in the paint right you your your tires are stripped at the end of the day Friday rolls around okay we don't see it 8 a.m. Monday morning boys and uh you know if you're gonna drink don't drive but if you do drink driver that's what you got told when you when you're dismissed for the weekend right and so basically have a fun blow off the steam don't hurt anybody and take care of each other is basically what you're told so the seal team's definitely is a It was even more when I first got in because now you're talking about the old Vietnam guys and it wasn't a war going on and it was just Hey, what are you gonna do? There's no war going on And you're you're a frog man. What are you gonna do? Well, we drank and and I'm not I'm gonna look down on it. I mean we had a great time

It was fun. We you know it was it was fun. It was what you know was what we did and I'm not even trying to say anything negative about it But that's what it was and unfortunately there's a lot of guys I shouldn't even say a lot there's a a decent number of guys that don't do well with alcohol, man. And it ruins their lives, it ruins their careers. And that sucks. It sucks to see. I never really had any issues.

I drank when I drank and never interfered with my work in any way. And, you know, that was it. It wasn't a huge deal. And I mean, of course, when I'm talking, when I was 19, 20, 21, 22, I mean, we drank a lot. We drank a lot. It's weird how your body lets you at that age. We drank a lot. Yeah, yeah.

And you got up the next. morning and did PT like it was nothing we and that's what we did um but then like I said and even now you know when I when I go out and hang out with some of my old buddies or actually it's more not when I just when I go and hang out with some of my old buddies you know we probably don't even you know maybe have a beer but when I go out and see the young guys the young guys are getting after I don't look down on them at all I think you know I find they're getting after it I found I found when I hung out with my buddies that are still super. You're not in the gig anymore.

You're not doing the job. So you're a little out of shape. Your drills are a little rusty maybe or whatever. I find when I'm around guys my age that are still operational, I can't keep up with them drinking or anything because it's part of the training. It's part of the culture. I've fallen off. And even like before I was in, I didn't really drink.

And then when I got out, I stopped drinking as much. And it's not like, again, guys, we're not, Jock and I aren't saying in the military. We're all functional alcohol. What we're saying is it's just what we do and you know and remember the job that that we volunteer to do we we volunteer to run into gunfire You know for our countries and for fun like let's face it a lot of us think it's fun I thought it was the best time of my life But you still got to blow off that steam and booze is really good at lubricating the the you know the the the the the the machinery of blowing off steam So when I when I started drinking for pain though yeah is where I realized

Because even the pills, bro, like, let's go back to my pills. I didn't know I was addicted to the pills until I watched intervention. And Billy was addicted to oxycotton. I said this on the show last time. Oxycontin, that sounds familiar. And I pick up the pill bottle that's next to me. And I go, oh, I'm on oxy cotton. And then they say, the doses he takes are this.

And I'm like, I'm on three times the dose he's on. And I'm like, that's when I went, I can get addicted to pills? I get it was so foreign to my brain that Doctor said doctor me me in pain doctor go here soldier take this and I go okay and I take it No more pain go fight more You know that's that's that's Going back to the alcohol thing is is one more thing for me I was just about to say this

Was I said hey look back in the day before the war started it was like nothing else like Yeah there's nothing better to do you're just gonna get drunk now the younger guys they're smarter than we were. And they have a reason to be. They have a reason to be there. And they have a reason not to drink. They're like, hey, bro, I'm going to go fight a war. You know, like, I want to be in shape.

I want to be better. I want to be faster. I don't want to get in a fight. I don't want to get a DUI. So they're smarter than they are. And that part of the culture is slowly changing. And I think it's good. I think it's awesome.

I think it's awesome. And I hope it continues. Again, I think it's, it got over-emphasized. When I first came in, it was over-emphasized in the 90s. It was like... But it was a way because we weren't fighting anyone else. Exactly. So you drank to be a man and then you fight each other.

And if another platoon shows up, you fight those fucking guys. If another squad shows up or another company, all right, band together. I know we were just fighting, but we'll get back to that. But there's an armored regiment over there. We're going to go fuck those guys up. There's something that I've been thinking about on this subject, which is in the military, right? And even in life, as a human, you want to prove that you're ready to see. sacrifice yourself for the cause.

I'm willing to make the sacrifice. Well, in a bizarre and kind of unfortunate way, proving to Jody that you know what? Watch this, Jody. I'm going to drink 16 shots of fire water. No, you're not. No, you're not. I don't care.

You don't have the parts, bitch. And there we go. Then I prove. Line up 18. Line up 18. Army versus Navy. Let's go. That's the fucking way it goes.

Echo, you played football. Yeah. You were talking about that early. about or on the show I was listening to where taking a shit with no stalls and you're saying yeah and football we'd rip the doors off the stall and that's how oh yeah I don't care watch me shit what's what's more apt to happen now what's more apt to happen now is a guy to be like hey I can clean and jerk you know 285 what can you get and and and so the guys are they're focused on something that's fitness yeah except they're blowing out shoulders and yeah we'll talk about that later

But I get what you're saying Because in the Canadian forces We hadn't had a war since Korea Yeah And we had what combat we had As I was coming in Was being downplayed We had guys take it

We had a guy And this is history This is proven He took an RPG round Through his chest Like just killed him Obviously and everything But his family was told

He was killed in a rollover Because our government was like They're supposed to be peacekeeping Where was it? In the former Yugoslavia I know a guy who took a snobes sniper around through the chest as a tank commander He was told shut the fuck up take your pension and your benefits got full benefits like it didn't

They didn't downplay what you've got if you're wounded They just said don't you dare tell anybody we had a we had a unit come home after like fighting some of the most intense combat in Europe since World War II when the Croats are trying to go through a Serb area and ethnically cleanse And this is in the 90s when the Canadian like rep for peacekeeping really got Which was known since Egypt but came back because our units and the French Foreign Legion units were the only units that were like, fuck you, you're not moving.

If you're going to, ethnic cleanse through here, you're going through us, whereas all the other UN units ran away. And they were in four or five days of like intense combat, bunch of wounded, no killed, thankfully. But the government and the chain of command were like, shut your fucking mouths, go home like nothing happened. That's real? That's real, bro. Google Maydak Pocket, Canadian Forces.

And you'll read all about these dudes who just, Like basically we're like hanging out drinking coffee, smoking butts and telling war stories that they never happened to being in a war and going, holy shit. A buddy of mine, he's going to get mad at me. He put out a book called Shadowkeeper or Ghost Keepers. I'll get the name. Sorry. And he was the first Canadian unit, him and his unit were the first Canadian units into Bosnia. And the shit they saw and the things they went through.

It's a great book, by the way, Ghostkeepers. Why would he be mad at you for talking about it? No, no, for getting the name wrong. Oh, okay. Sorry about that. But the point is that at that time, he was told like, you don't tell, we don't, we don't brag is what the line that was told. But really, the government back home was like, we didn't know this was going to happen.

Well, you don't peace keep without busting heads. Like, there's a reason, if you, if I want to go kill that guy and you're in my way, guess what I'm going to do? I'm going to try and go through you, right? This concept of peacekeeping, you know, was like, you know, the guy with the Billy Club, all right, okay, everybody keep it down here. See? Like, that's kind of what the politicians thought. Because it was for college kids sometimes. Yeah. But even when, every now and then, you smack one over the head with that Billy Club. And I think, and I remember my first tour

in Kosovo, even, we trained for crowd control. We trained for a whole lot of things. But then the final training exercise was when we all went, oh, because the Russians rolled in and took over the airport in Kosovo. I don't know if you remember that. Yeah. And we did a live training exercise, a joint, um, armored, a full combat team exercise. Like main battle tanks firing and like I'd never, my, my dick was rock hard. Like we're, we've got 500 rounds on each other.

We're just like bullets flying everywhere. And like, uh, like, the range control safety was like minimal, right? Because they're like trying to simulate real combat. And then we got but anyway the point is that when you don't have anything to point your soldiers at They turn on each other and that's what we were getting earlier But to round out the whole like what soldiers board soldiers are a danger echo I think if you've been around a group of active Navy seals I think or maybe even army guys like yeah if they got nothing else to fight though just fight each other Yeah, like we used to we used to whenever we were waiting for a plane to go on a trip like this from my youngest like it would start off with

okay, let's see who can hit that pole over there with a rock. Yeah. Right? And then all of a sudden it's like, okay, let's see you can hit the light with the rock. And then all of a sudden it's, hey,

let's see who can hit that car tire with a rock. And pretty soon you're hock. Whoever? Just a bunch of idiots. Yeah, yeah. And pretty soon you're having a rock fight, right? Which is not smart because you're hocking rocks

the size of baseballs at each other or whatever. Yeah. And yeah. But I think what we were talking about was how the newer guys see how we did it. But they have an enemy though. Yeah, absolutely. Like they have a real enemy.

We have a perpetual enemy that is not going away. And so I see the guys that are in my unit now. They come in and they're like, okay, what supplements are going to keep me at my best? Exactly. Like they read my book. They go, okay, so Jody, you'd stop drinking coffee. How many days before you deployed? I'd be like, well, at least five days.

So it's out of my system. Because when I'm out there getting after the enemy, I don't want to be having a caffeine crash. But if I need it, I want that. piece did you ever get that wake-up gum in your rats no it's like four cups of coffee and one or two cups of coffee and like when you need it like I would keep that in my pocket till the very end like the helo might be coming to pick us up and if I didn't take it I was happy but sometimes yeah you take that in the middle of a mission and you're like okay I got two more days in me right but the point is like they have something to aim themselves at right is at the

beginning we didn't but even then booze wasn't a big deal to me it was just what we did like you said Fast forward to this fall that would just pass, and I realized I'm crashing. I felt like a B-52. You were saying you saw something, because I kind of cut you off, but you were talking about seeing the program where they show addicted people.

What's that program called? Intervention. But that was back when I first got wounded in 07. And that's when I realized I was addicted to the pills, but not addicted like, I need a pill. It was like my body would just start reacting, and I would be like, oh, I'm itchy for some reason. And then that's when I started easing off.

And I never told me, a pill after Father's Day 2011. But even that, you read the book. I ended up buying pills from a guy in an alley once. And I went, what the fuck is it? And the system has treat me like an asshole because I want more pills?

And then they're like, yeah, if you want more pills, you got to come to the hospital every day to get your dose. I'm like, I'm not a fucking junkie dog. I just don't, the dose you're giving me isn't enough to keep me from feeling like shit. And then I'm mitigating my stress with the pills. So maybe, okay, so go to more therapy.

and that's when I started rebuilding in 2011. So come the fall, I'm still not on my legs. I... Wait, this is 2011? 2011 is when I quit the pills. Got it. And that's why I thought booze wouldn't be a problem. Cigarettes aren't a problem.

Booze isn't a problem. You'd quit booze. I mean, you'd quit pills. Yeah, whatever. It was like a whatever. When the time comes for you to quit booze, you'll just quit. That's what you were thinking. When I'm ready, I'll be done with it.

Got it. And, but what I, what happened, and if you're a politician, the most important thing, federal, state, municipal, so in Canada, state would be provincial, budget, money. Money is the big thing that everybody worries about in private live and everything else. So when are we talking about right now? Sorry. You're already back.

You're back up to the time. I know, I'm bouncing around a little bit. I'm just saying in my mind, 2017, wasn't that big a deal as far as the drinking because I'd kicked all these other habits. and I, whether it's real or not, I had an army psychologist once tell me I had an anti-addictive personality because I guess like you,

like to me it's like, okay, well, what's going to help me function better? What's going to get me to the next day without too many issues? And if I want to have a few drinks, I'm going to have a few drinks, and I can because tomorrow morning, I don't have to be anywhere until 9 a.m. anyway.

So whatever, if I'm a little hungover when I get there, I'll have a coffee and a glass of water or Gatorade and an Advil. Not a big deal. Fast forward to, Again, my daughter's birthday last fall. Oh, daddy can't be there yet because I'm still hung over, right? I got my, and I was when I realized I'm going through, I was like, I felt this before

because I kept asking myself, what the, why do I keep screwing everything up? And then the budgets process started. That's where I was going with this. And that's where I remembered, I'm not, because you're, Jocko, you're not a private citizen anymore. You know that, right? What do you mean? Well, if you fell off Instagram tomorrow,

there's a million people out there. It'd probably be like, well, where the fuck is Jocko? And I was posting less. I was being less upbeat in what I did post. The few last couple podcasts, even going back to the spring, on one of them,

we got loaded. And we said it was for fun, but I, like, I needed a drink myself. And I'm starting to miss budget. And budget is money. That's what everything runs on. The city of Ottawa has a three and a half billion

dollar budget. Why isn't Councilor Middick at the budget meeting for the Community Protective Services Committee? Community Protective Services Committee. Oh, he's not feeling well. His legs are bugging him, stuff like, whatever my staff said. They're asking me,

what's going on, boss? And I'm like, yeah, I just, I need you to buy me some time. But that's when the media and the voter goes, no, no, no, no, no, no. We get it. You like to write books and you like to do podcasts. You like to shoot guns. And, you know, you're a dude. And we, and we accept you as who you are, but our four-year commitment, the biggest part of that commitment is making sure the money is spent properly and on the things that we want it spent on, and we

elected you to be that voice. Why aren't you at that meeting? And personal private matters can only get you so far during like the most important part of your job, right? Well, either go on medical leave or be at the meeting is basically what I was told, right? Get a doctor's note or be here. And that's when I ended up doing that radio interview in December when it really came to ahead. And when I had to really admit to myself, like, I'm border, I think I was, in my mind, I was borderline alcoholic, I guess.

But I was, I was just not able to deal with that failure in myself. How much, how much were you drinking? At the peak, it was a 40 ounce of. whatever I get my hands on. Sometimes it was like two, remember one time it was two 26 ounce bottles of rye. Crown Royal was my brand of choice.

And if that wasn't around, again, Jack Dan. And you're drinking, you're getting done with work and that's it. No, at this point, I'm just waking up in the morning and drinking. Oh,

okay. Not even going to work. Like I was just, I knew in the morning I couldn't go and then you feel like shit because you drank all day. So what do you do? You go for the hair of the dog

and that just turns into a perpetual circle. And then the wounds I was talking about earlier, they're not healing because my body's full of alcohol. And a friend of mine said, you know what? My dad used to have that problem because he drank too much too. And he would like cut his hand working on like woodwork in the shed. And it would be there for like six, eight, nine months. And then he'd sober up for a couple months and then it would go away. But then he'd fall back. And I went, your dad, the maniac you've told me stories about? And she was like, yeah. And I'm like, okay. So this is really becoming a problem. So now I'm dealing with the internal struggle of I'm a complete failure of a human

being. I've failed my kids. I failed the voters. I failed like friends of mine like Jocko and ECHO who, you know, we expect certain things from each other, right? Or we think we do. And you could have a terrible day and I would never judge you for it, but you don't know that until it happens, right? And even if you know that, you still don't want to admit it. Never mind to Jocko or echo, how about to yourself, right? And again, I'd stopped meditating. I'd stop going to my therapist. I'd stop going to the gym. I'd stop podcasting. I'd stopped writing, really, even though, and then during the book tour in October, I know I'm rewinding a little bit, but I, the last thing I wanted to do is go on the book tour. But the book is coming out, and that's a commitment that I signed.

And, you know, you're dealing with all this. And I did the tour in my wheelchair, and everybody's like, oh, you're doing so much better because you're okay with being in the wheelchair. And I'm like, yeah yeah yeah cool close the hotel room door and like open a drink right have a drink so December was the worst month of my life getting blown up was easy in my opinion dealing with this shit but what I didn't do in 2007 was actually deal with the fact that I was blown up frankly I was so like yeah recover be useful to the regiment be useful to the queen get better for the country, put prosthetic legs on, life is normal, is-ish. And then now I'm like, okay, first of all, now, dude, you're 40. Second of all, you have kids that are now like, where the, like,

I would see them and they'd be like, we miss you. Like, where have you been? Like, why aren't you around more? And, like, you don't live far away. Like, what's your excuse? Like, oh, because I'm ashamed of you seeing me all dealing with the next day of being drunk and stuff, you know? know and it really it really it really became i understand now i've i've always been sympathetic to addicts since my oxy cotton days but now i get how depression can really make you into someone not worth saving in your own mind and i get i get it and i've i've never dis uh i've never thought hatefully or anything of friends that have committed someone i've committed suicide or have gone down that path of depression that you just if you're not in it you don't

get it and you go man why can't you just like read a book or listen to some comedy or not drink today like have i'll sit with you and have a water and you just don't get it and i was doing a lot of this on my self-isolation too because you don't want anyone seeing you like this and then the few people that do hang around are often in the same in one of the levels of of of uh of of fuck up, of life fuck up. And so. You know, I've talked about this before where, and it sounds like you're describing exactly,

I talk about how like people get into a place where they're basically in a storm, right? There's a storm all around their head. And no matter which direction they look, they just see clouds and thunder and rain and horror, right? And everybody that's outside that storm looks at them and they go, well, yeah, you're in a storm. Just come over here and you'll be out of the storm.

Just move over here and you'll be out of the storm. Yeah, yeah. Just put down the drink or, You know, start working out again or whatever. You just move over here and you'll be out of the storm. Yeah. But that person can't see. They can't see the direction.

Everything around them is a storm. They don't understand how me coming over there is like climbing a mountain. And not to give anyone shit, but maybe a little bit of shit if you know who you are. Hey, man. Want to watch UFC tonight at my place? Yeah, cool. Except, hey, bro, I'm in a wheelchair. I can't even get in your front door.

Can you come to my place where I can get around? and take a piss without getting out a water bottle and, you know, like being embarrassed in front of your wife. Yeah, but you live all the way over there. Like, we've already got plans and shit. Like, well, cool. What about next weekend? Eh, that kind of, that didn't help as well.

Because people, like, they don't, like, even coming here, you're like, oh, I'll just buddy carry you up the stairs. And I'm like, yeah, I trust you. But at the same time, like, some of my friends offering to carry me into their house or, like, 140 pounds, like, soaking wet. never been lifted a weight in their life and nothing against them but it's like you want me to trust my physical safety

or you could just come to my place and they don't get it and I don't I'm not mad anyone about it it's like it's like that saying like I don't hate them about it but at the same time it's kind of like all right cool man I'll just watch the fight and we can text and I'll be at my place alone again

right like because I didn't even my dog isn't at the place where I'm at right now right so that all thing just kind of fell into a big Blender and in December How long did that So did this When you got back in your wheelchair

You gave up the legs Is that really This is me? This is me So in May when you get like I said You went on that long trip You went to Albany you come back from that Now you're now you're like I'm done with my prosthetics

They're freaking killing me Yeah And I'm getting in a wheelchair Back in the wheelchair Is that sort of like Now you're just gaining momentum Going downhill? Yeah well that and

But that's a crazy thing is I thought I'm starting to climb up. Because I'm like finally admitting I can't wear my prosthetics. Because I would like walk into council, which is the big like every two weeks, you do the big meeting. And that's where all like everything you went to the bar and drank about and then went to the office and like argued behind the scenes with each other. Now you sit down and you go all those in favor, I, all those against, you know, nay. And then it's passed. Oh, resolution passes. And now it's illegal to eat ice cream on Bank Street on Sundays.

which is a bylaw in Ottawa that I'm going to actually try and get changed, by the way, from like 1800s. But the point is, that's the big show. Like if all the other training, right, that's the live fire exercise. Or that's the actual op, right? So that's what you work for. So when I started missing those at the end of the year, when we're pat, like the budget is the thing that if without budget you have, you guys just had a government shutdown over budget. That's what you're trying to avoid.

And that's when the media who, you know, are doing their job. but Jody Middick in a headline gets clicks. And now Jody Midick, the guy everybody loves, oh, he's fucking up. What's going on here? One guy even made a video called No Show Middick, because I'd missed like four or five meetings. But the meetings I'd missed were the ones out.

Like, you could miss every other meeting throughout the year, and nobody would give a fine fuck of a rolling donut, which is a saying out of a series of books I love. But I miss these three meetings? Oh, no. no oh no man like these are the meetings we really voted for you to be at where you at no show middick and this guy is trying to make a name for himself as a political commentator whatever he's an asshole but the point is to say that shit to my face um the point is he's right though

where is no show middick and now in my because that's what i was in my head already right and then i'm like okay so i thought if i said personal family matters or personal health matters they get it, they know me, they know I've dealing with stuff along the way, but they're like, yeah, we get it, man, but if you don't tell us what's going on, then we're going to assume you're just fucking being lazy because why else, why shouldn't we?

And I went, okay, and a reporter buddy of mine, and I sent you a couple texts, that's when I, when you said that earlier, my skin went, like, you know, got the goosebumps because I forgot I sent that. And I was starting to think, like, okay, I got to go back to basics. I got to remember who,

I am and what I was and my own advice. And that's when I went, oh, yeah, I got too comfortable in my pity. And the enemy now is on my left flank. And I have zero defenses on the left flank. And instead of fighting a shitty losing rear guard, you turn and you face the fucking, you face the battle. So I turned and a reporter friend of mine, and for the record, reporters are not really friends.

There's those friends that you kind of keep at arm's length and you're always ready to punch, but you never know, right? You're not really punch, but I'm not threatening anyone with violence, you PC world weirdos, but he called me on a personal note and he said, hey man, here's what's being said in the media world about you, and this is what could be going to headline if you don't say anything soon. And I went, okay, well, some of that's true, some of that's made up, but that's what you do and you don't know.

and I said, all right, can I come on your show? And he's like, well, that's what I was just about to ask you. If you want, come on my show, and that's Evan. And then we went and we talked about it, and he was very kind to me. He's rough. He's a tough dude. He's a tough reporter, but at the same time, very fair. And he hit me with a few hits, and I hit him back.

But what I did was I got it all out of my system. Because basically you feel like you're holding, never mind, I'm keeping a secret from, Jocko and Echo. I'm keeping a secret from 40,000 residents who trust me to be their counselor. Then there's all the fans of Jody Middick that are out there and all the supporters who are all amazing and who all are willing to support you through the best and the worst of times, but they can't support you without anything that they, like, to them, I just

stopped podcasting for no reason and I've stopped being positive on social media. So what, like what? You just decide, is this the real Jody now? Is that who like were you faking it before like that's some of the messages I got like Oh obviously you figured out that you can still make money and be be the asshole you actually are and I was like oh shit like jeez it maybe maybe I am that asshole But when I did my buddy show a huge weight went off my shoulders I shouldn't say buddy but you know but the point is that that was the beginning of me Turning into the into the fight instead of running and I had a couple setbacks so so hold on so this show that you

And you said you listened. I did listen to it, but the premise of the show was what you did, for lack of a better word, is you took ownership of everything that was going on. I even laughed. I was laughing right before I went online. I went on to the show. I said, I'm doing a jock when I'm taking extreme ownership. You took extreme ownership.

You went on the- So you went on there and you said, look. I cried like a baby, by the way, anyone who thinks I'm a tough guy. I've been drinking too much? Yeah. What were the facts? What were the things that you took ownership of? That was the major thing, right?

Well, the booze caused a lot of the lack of energy, lack of attendance went down because it's one thing to be buzzed. It's another thing to be completely hung over and fucked up and show up for a meeting. Like, you know yourself. I know myself. And I know, like, if I go in there like this right now,

people will be like, he is completely fucked, right? and I know I'm swearing a lot and I apologize, but you avoid that. And then so I said, okay, guys, well, here's why I miss this meeting and here's why I miss that meeting because I've turned to an old friend, Crown Royal, instead of my therapist and my doctors and my friends and my family and my supporters

and all the things that made me able to cope from 2007 to 2017, so for basically a decade, I forgot about and I left behind. Like, never mind, I was, never mind, to the gym, like, stopped to the gym, stop talking to my therapist, stopped talking to my kids, stop talking to my ex,

stop talking to my mom, stop talking to my dad, my friends, again, I was self-isolating. And there were times when I'd want to pick up the phone and just call like you or Rob or, um,

or some of my friends at home or some of my sniper buddies. And just be like, I don't know what to do. And now you're, man, echo, right? Sure. Imagine trying to make that call.

Yeah. And I'm not saying it's a man problem. I'm definitely a human problem. But I'm the guy everybody thinks. I get told, you're the poster child of success post injury. And I'm like, in my head, I'm like, I'm a fucking bullshitter. Like, that's how you feel. And I'm like, whether I am or not, I've been lucky and I've made a few decent decisions for my own accord.

And I am where I am through hard work and discipline. And now what? And now I feel like I'm losing it all because I, have I been faking it? Was this just a ride that I was on and now I'm done and I want to get off? Like the things that go through your head, now, first of all, I was never suicidal. I never thought, never crossed my mind. I don't know why it just didn't. But I did have one thought one day where I went, I think I understand why some guys take that path, though.

I had such a day one day where it was in December. And it wasn't like I thought, oh, things would be better. if I was dead. It was like, I just, I was at such a low moment and I went, I think I get it why sometimes guys take that path. Because it's just,

like, you know, like it was just such an extreme combination of everything from all sides. And I went, I think I kind of get it now. Because before, I don't know about you, but I've tried to figure out why some of the guys go that route.

And I just can't, but that moment, I went, oh, okay, I kind of get it. And it was, it wasn't like I thought, solution for my,

myself, but I just, it was very quick, it took about two minutes of in and out. And it stuck with me, though, because I went, that's the first time I've ever had any thought like that, right? And then, so my daughter's birthday is late December, and I missed that one too. And then New Year's Eve. And I've already made plans to go and do an assessment that would tell me how terrible of an addict I am as an alcoholic because that's what you are you're an addict and I'm going to a AA kind of sort of and I have a sponsor who's all over me he's a great guy and I won't say his name here but he knows who he is and he's a beautiful human being and he's trying to get on top of me and Luke's trying to get on top of me and my mom and my ex and my friends and they're

all trying to just be like okay man like we get it now we've heard we've heard your calls loud and clear now how do we help you and then it's trying to to like mitigate that and then well it's you know it's christmas i'll have a few drinks i know i sold the world this but you know i can handle it i'm not i'm not that bad and then the next morning you're like oh man but then new year's eve i had some company that came out because they're like we heard you man we're here it's new year's eve let's hang out let's be let's have fun we'll have a few drinks we're all here to keep an eye on you can't get that bad we know who you are and the next morning it's like i did what because

now all the pressure's on now to get better. And I was hearing radio interviews where there, I was headline news in Ottawa for a couple days where they went, wow, real brave of him to say that. Now, how's he going to get better? Guys are talking about me. I have to retire or resign from politics. In Canada, with the gun laws as they are,

a public citizen, anyone can call in a threat on anybody who owns guns, right? so some gun hating citizen and I'm not hating them for this I'm just hating them for being a dick said oh I can get a prominent gun owners guns taken away if I call the police and say I think he's a threat to public safety

and that's all you have to do it's completely anonymous which is bullshit and anyone can do it against anyone that's a gun owner and so now the police call and they say listen we have to do an investigation so like damn so that actually happened So this was right before New Year's Eve. So I'm like freaking out. I am losing my shit.

And because I'm like, I don't know how it works. Now they're very understanding, but they have to do the check. Look, once the investigation started, real or not or substantiated or not, we got to go through steps one to Z. Okay. So they go and inspect the guns. The guns are safe. The guns are where they're supposed to be. Everything's locked out.

Everything's proper. Talk to my family. Nope, he's never been threatening with them. La la la la. And then like, and then, and then, and the New Year's Eve rolls around and I have that's terrible. This is the last, I, the last drop of booze I had was New Year's Eve. And we started with a small bottle and I drank it all myself. And.

Dispast New Year's Eve. Dispast New Year's Eve. So it was today 24? 24. 22 days ago. 23 days ago. And the next morning, I got a little bit of a lowdown about. what I was like and I call him evil Jody.

And he came out once in 2005, after my first deployment to Afghanistan and before my second one where I got wounded. And I was bouncing at the time and I was, you know, having some little bit too much fun in life maybe, but I was also drinking too much for the wrong reasons at the time. And a lot of us were because we had,

the Canadian forces we hadn't dealt with, you know, combat a lot, right? like I said, and a lot of us were green when we went into Afghanistan the first time, so maybe a lot, like you said, a fair number of us, me included, were maybe choosing

the wrong ways. I was still meditating and all that, so mitigated a little bit, but I called him Evil Jody, he came out. My friend, one of my buddies who still talked to, he's a police sniper now, but he pulled me aside and he said,

Hey man, like, I've never, ever seen you act like that ever, no matter how drunk you were, what it was going on, or how angry you were, who pissed you off. What the fuck was that about? And I went, oh, that sounds like grandpa or whatever. So I locked him in a cage. And I used to joke that, you know, oh, don't let the caveman out of his cage. And then, but that night, so 25 days ago or whatever was, he got out. And I didn't hurt anybody or anything, but I said things you don't shouldn't.

and I maybe made actions that you shouldn't. Yeah, and for me, the biggest thing is when you realize that you had no control over what's happening. And you know what you're capable. Yeah, well, that's what I'm saying. I don't remember and you did all these things. I said what to who? Oh my God. And you're just like, you're thinking.

And I called, so I called one of the people that was there. And I said, I am so sorry. And he was like, been there, done that, dude. You got to get your shit together. I'll be here when you're done, when you're ready. or I'm here tomorrow. He was such a great guy about it. And I went, oh, so the world doesn't hate you

for being a fuck up. And that helped too. And we talked about this last night. Like who, when you mitigate, um, crisis, David Letterman or Tiger Woods. Whoever, like,

don't follow the Tiger Woods book. Go with David Letterman. Own it. So explain what David Letterman did because I didn't remember it. So, yeah. So in, in, in a nutshell, David Letterman got,

he got, a cotton affair on his wife. David Letterman, by the way, is like a talk show host at night. Well, he was. Yeah, he's not anymore, but I guess he was, and he was pretty popular at some point. Yeah, he was already. And Tiger Woods, some people knew. For those you who don't know, is a golf player.

So he, yeah, if you haven't heard of him, he's like, yeah, he's like half black, half tie. And, you know, he swung a golf club pretty good for a minute. But he got caught cheating on his wife, too. So David Letterman got a blackmail. letter right before one of his shows. And the guy said, I know what happened. Because he was having an affair or something? He had had one or he was having one.

And it was like pay me $40,000 a week for the rest of my life or this or something. I'll tell the world. And David Letterman went, all right, I fucked up. And he went out and I don't remember. I did see it, but I don't remember exactly how it went. But basically, usually they do a monologue these guys before their show. And he went, instead of today, monologue, I'm going to look into the camera and I'm going to say, I cheated on my wife.

And she knows about it and we're working on it. And somebody else found out and they thought they were going to get money from me. So he looked in the camera and went, fuck you. The police are coming to your house right now. And to the rest of you, I apologize. I'm sorry. To my wife, I apologize. And I understand if this is a problem for us.

And then we will have to deal with it again because of who I am. It's world news. He owned it. he owned all of it and the other day he interviewed this guy named Obama you might have heard of him on his new show on Netflix

called I forget what the next guest or something and he was on he's still seen as a good dude because he owned it and he worked through it and he didn't not talk about it and then there's what Tiger Woods did

which is runaway hide not admit anything and Tiger Woods went through four or five years of just complete chaos in his life before he finally even, I think now he still places in the bottom 50. I think he's at the PGA.

I don't know. He still plays, but he probably just plays to pay the bills now. He was worth a billion dollars at one point and he lost it all because of not owning a fuck-up. He probably still would have lost a lot of it because his wife took half, but regardless, sponsors dropped him.

He himself is a human being, couldn't look himself in the mirror, I'm sure, right? Blah, blah, blah. So I said, okay, well, this is my Tiger Woods or David Letterman moment. Like going on the radio, I thought was it. Now we're two weeks later, ish, whatever it was. Yeah, like two weeks later, and I'm like, well, either I never drink again, or I continue down the path of bullshitting myself into saying,

well, I'll just get better when I'm ready. And this journey I've been on since I left, what did I leave? I forget. but Jan 18 or 19 I left Ottawa, and I've just been driving. I wanted to drive Route 66 since I was a teenager. And, you know, I talked to the kids, I talked to Atlanta, I talked to my mom, I talked to everybody that mattered.

And I said, I'll be back. First city council is January 31st after our Christmas break anyway. And I said, I'll be back. I'm going to go visit some people that are going to look me in the eye and tell me if I'm full of shit, or not, you guys be in some of them. And when I get back, I'm going to, my therapist, I already have an appointment.

My, uh, my doctors for my legs because I'm going back to basic training to learn how to use prosthetics again. So I don't go through those issues again. I'm going to talk about my addiction issues. I'm going to talk about why I'm not, I'm going back to the gym. I have a diet plan already. I have a trainer waiting. Um, I'm, I'm going back to the basic.

I'm back. I'm a basic training to be a human being again. And I was laughing this morning listening to your show about the basic training at Marine Corps base in Paris Island because I was like, fuck, man, I just, I keep doing this every three or four years. I got to go back and relearn what it's like to be Jody Middick because I am evolving. I had to evolve beyond the soldier and then I had to turn into the citizen and then now, now I'm turning into something else, I think, because. I had a plan until I was 44.

I thought at 25 years in the Army, or 27 years, retire, become a contractor, teach shooting for the rest of my life and just be that grumpy old guy that, you know, well, if you want to know about shooting, you talk to that guy,

be good, decent money, right? I didn't want to get rich. I just wanted to pay my bills and hang out with my, my dream retirement was going to be to herd alpacas around on my horse with my rifle, shoot coyotes,

and listen to like, gangster rap and read books. Like, that was it. That was what I wanted to do. But life has a funny way of pointing you in directions that maybe you need to go in or you didn't know you had to go. And I'm back on the Jocko podcast. Spilling my whole life and my soul out for everybody.

And I hope somebody learns, if we keep one troop from, like, listen, even if you're on the road where you know you're fucking up, pull over, call in air support. Like Jocko said, like, you got, we have so many resources we don't know about. And, you know, we all, I'm the lone wolf. Well, even the lone wolf runs in a pack. And I think that's how I've thought it like, you know, the soft guys. You know, we're all alphas, but we're in teams, you know, and I rolled in a team of three hardcore guys. There was me and my boys.

But we, at the same time, I knew I had artillery support. I had air cover. I had this. I had another sniper team covering the flank over there. and Rucky Platoon over there and you're never alone and even last night like I felt bad

I'm still in a T-shirt I drove in all day from the T-shirt I wore the day before and he showed, I've never seen Jocko dressed up and I'm like oh shit Jocko's like in a button-down shirt and he's wearing shoes

Let's not get crazy I had on a pair of jeans, vans, a T-shirt and a flannel shirt that's... Yeah, you were dressed up, bro. It was a button-up shirt. But I'm like... Technically.

I'm like, okay. So I haven't seen you in two years, ish, give or take a few months. We've talked, but it's not like we've been on the phone for hours, been like, hey, bro, what's going now? Like, you know, we're busy dudes. We kept in touch the way guys like us do, but we sat down and I'm like, okay, do I eat dinner

and then tell him tomorrow or, and I just basically threw up all over you. And you were awesome, and I love you for it, and I appreciate it, but I needed that hour of just talking about myself. And I felt bad about it too because I'm like, I haven't even asked him how his kids are.

I have friends that'll do, you were willing to do that. And I've done that for hundreds of guys. But then when it's you doing the talking, man, it's tough. And I get it now. I get it now more than anything. So guys, you need to,

you got to pull over. You got to like, you just got to take a knee and let somebody else take point for a bit. And that's just the way it is. You know how you said, you kind of understand when people feel suicidal? You know, I remember when you said that. Yeah, I know, I know.

And I've said that a bunch of times since it happened. But what's your question, sorry? Like, do you, do you, because I think about that too sometimes where. That's the only time I've ever had that thought. Well, I don't think about me. I'm thinking like other people, like, what does it take to be like, you know what? I'm going to end my life. My question is, do you think that it's like that feeling is like,

It's almost like this immense boredom with, you know how like you just don't have, it's not like this pain that I got to end. It's more that like there's really no reason for me to, it's like you're going up this hill, but the hill isn't that steep, but it's just so long. Yeah, you know. I think that's part of it. Yeah, like it's like from what I've read, the few suicide notes that I've seen when,

you know, when you find, like we had one, I don't know if I talked about it on, on the show last time. I was teaching on a sniper course and one of the guys, I was talking to him. one moment about what we're going to do Saturday because they're all guys you work with, right? It's kind of like, I'm sure it's the same as the SEALs. A lot of them that come on to sniper course anyway are guys you've picked out of the platoons.

And then, you know, even if they pass, you still have a meeting where you go, okay, do we really want to work with Echo guys? Like, I know we gave them the badge, but are we going to let them into the teams? And then, so this is one of the guys. So, you know, I'm getting to know him a little bit more. He's from the other battalion.

And yeah, cool, man. I know this girl in town and this and that. Okay, right on. And 20 minutes later, we're like, where the fuck did he go? We're doing roll call. Where the fuck is he? And we found him hanging from one of the, you know, the pavilions that are out in the training area. Get shade during lectures.

So he was out there. And we find this letter on his pillow and I'm reading. And it's about they feel like they're in this pain that's never ending. Yeah. And I don't think it's boredom. I think it's just this. It's the no light at the end of the tunnel feeling. Yeah.

Yeah. As you were asking that question, um, the word I wrote down was, was because we've been talking about it. We've heard from it from the last couple podcasts that we did. And it's the same thing you just said. It's hope. So when you don't have any hope that this is going to end, when you don't see any light at the end of the tunnel.

And like I said, when you're stuck in this storm and everywhere you look, you don't see the light at the end of the tunnel. You don't see that this cloud ends somewhere and that the thundering lightning will subside. You just are in a storm no matter where you look. There's a storm. And they say, you know, there's no hope of getting out of this storm. And I think that's where that's where,

that's where they start having those thoughts. Luckily though, when the thought entered my mind, like, I get it. And what I'm, again, I never thought of suicide, but I had the thought go through my brain where I go, I get why some people might see this as an option. Because I did see, like, because I'm texting him. I'm texting Rob. I'm texting, you know, my buddies in the Kansoff. I'm, uh, my regimental friends, my, my mom, my dad, my brother.

most of the people that should be aware there's a problem were aware. So I still had lots of light coming in, but it was my, now it's your choice. Are you going to go towards it or are you going to stay floating where you are, I guess, is a way. Like, are you going to reach for the line or are you going to sit there and be like, eh, it's just out of arms reach? Yeah, you know, I talk about detachment all the time and this is like another situation where obviously when you're wrapped up in those kind of emotions, right? You you you can't see anything else somebody that's outside

They're they're perfectly clear can help guide you out of that even though it's gonna be hard and there's things that they're not gonna stand and all that But they can at least they know that they're outside that and they can see it just like on the battlefield Somebody that's at elevation you know you get a building You know a sniper position yeah some guys go left go left go left go left exactly and they go right and they're like fuck Yeah so if you can reach out to somebody that can that has a little bit better altitude on the battlefield that you're in then and if you can reach out to him say hey man I can't see what's going on all I see is darkness point me in the right direction and they're gonna tell you some dumb shit like hey okay let's get you to a

doctor let's get you stop drinking let's get you in the gym again they're gonna tell you some stuff that sounds stupid it sounds well it sounds way too easy yeah sounds way too easy oh you think it's that easy for a fuck just like that yeah but You know what I what I like what you said is you're like man I keep having to go back to boot camp Yeah, and it's like that's really if you think about what boot camp is what is boot camp They're like okay put your shoes on like this make your bed like that eat this food do this workout That's what they do they get you on the program that leads it's it's at least a success and it it leads to Having your life somewhat sorted out and once you get that then you look around you go okay

Now these bigger problems I if I can control these little things I can control these little things I can control This thing that's a little bit bigger and if I control that I control this thing that's a little bit bigger If I can control that I control this other thing that's a little bit bigger But when you're not you know it's the same thing I talk about all the time with the Shessions and the Russians not You know failing on that first war and it all started when they stopped shaving well it's the same thing with your personal life when you When you disregard these these fundamental things that you would do in boot camp Yeah when you start letting them go well then if the little things fall apart then the bigger things fall apart But contrary to that when you put

the little things together you can start putting the bigger things together and that's what you're doing right now this whole podcast I've talked about what did I stop doing I stopped oh well fuck I'm gonna eat pizza tonight instead of my prescribed diet that I've ate for years and makes me feel good and keeps me in good shape because fuck it today and then the next day it's like well I did it yesterday I'm gonna have cocoa puffs for breakfast and it was just a downward spiral of I don't need to go see my therapist he's all the way in the other town and I know my life sucks right now don't need somebody to tell me that my Life sucks.

I already know. Hey, what do you talk about with a therapist? What do they talk about? What do you do there? So I've been assuming you've never? No. Honestly, like, you just bounce life off them. What I'm saying is if you got a guy that's listening right now, that's like, you know.

Is it embarrassing? Not even embarrassing. If you got a guy that's listening right now that's going, well, what the hell would a therapist tell me? Why would I not just, you know, write in a journal or do something like that? Do that too. Okay. I write in a journal, which I, again, which I stopped doing again. The writing in the journal is like your self-check.

Because I go back, I was reading through my, I kept a journal throughout the year, kind of, but, you know, not as often as you should. And I was reading through it, and I'm like, wow, I'm even bullshitting myself in this. My last therapy session, which was right before the downward angle started, he said a few things to me that needed to be said, and I kind of took it to heart. I was like, oh shit. But basically he said, you're putting a lot of work and to be in Jody Middick.

And I was like, fuck you, man. You don't even know. You don't even know, but, like, listen, like, this is over a year ago. And right now, I'm like, I'm still like, ouch, that hurt, but he was right. And it took me this whole time to get to the point where I'm leveling off now.

But therapy is, you know, um, I think I said this to you last night. It's like Tigerwood, okay, Tigerwood, bad example on how to mitigate crisis, but had a golf coach his whole career. And guess when he started sucking when he stopped seeing his golf coach? No one is an expert on life.

I didn't have PTSD when I got wounded. I was cleared. Two different therapists and a psychiatrist both said clear to PTSD. Massive depression, which is normal for losing even a loved one, right? And when you lose a limb, they say it's like losing a loved one. So two loved ones died when it, but whatever, whatever. But PTSD can come back. In Canada, we call it operational stress injury, which I was diagnosed with, which is like an injury.

So if you're spraying your ankle or break your ankle, it's an injury. One heals differently from the other, right? Left alone, they both lead to failure. Your ankle will completely deteriorate and fall off and have to be cut out of the body or replaced if you don't treat it. If you're, I don't know, what do you guys call a Humvee? Or what do you call it truck? Yeah, Humvee. Humby.

Hummer. If you're a Hummer blows an axle, do you yell at it and tell it to toughen up and go have a fucking drink? No, you send it in for fucking maintenance. Yeah. And I used to say this to troops all the time. I'll say it again, and I've said it before. I've said this to colonels and generals. Like, dude, man, if you need maintenance, go to the fucking maintenance shop, which is, in our case, the fucking mine guy.

I had a talk with the chief of defense staff, which is our, not sective, chief of staff. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, yeah. And we were talking about combat units. And I said, well, you know, and we were both getting on the philosophical side of things. Samurai used to meditate and they do practice calligraphy to perfect it. And the tea ceremony, warrior monks of Europe would meditate, would pray and fast. The Mongolian hordes even had their ceremonies where they purged the demons and let it do. what do our modern soldiers do?

There's no self-reflection. There's no meditation. There's no, we got to start from basic training. And I don't know if I said this on the last podcast. If I did, I apologize. I forgot my own advice again. What's rice? Rice?

For your body. Rest, ice, compression, elevation. That's taught to you the first day of basic training. I'm glad I remembered it. Ah, right? But that's your vehicle, right? And your vehicle is your body. gets you into combat, which is where the unit needs you, which is where your country wants

you, what's race for the mind? And this is where we all as a society have to go back and think about these things like Jiu Jiu Jitsu. It is. It is. Jiu-surfing. But this is my point. So when you go to a therapist, if you have no jiu-jitsu in your life, you don't have surfing,

you don't have calligraphy, you don't know how to meditate, this could be the beginning of you learning how to be, of the beginning of learning. writing rice for your mind. And that's how I look at it. But even still, I know enough about medicine that I can take care of myself for the most part without going to the doctor. But guess what?

Now and then I hit something and I go, fuck, I need a doctor. So therapy, it doesn't mean you have to go every week on order like clockwork, but have someone that you're, that's your therapist or your psychiatrist or whoever, whatever level you need or you qualify for and your benefits,

And that doesn't mean you go see them all the time. I had a guy that I saw when I had to. But a lot of it is up to you too. The individual is still a big part of this. I as an individual, this is where it hit me really hard. And when you heard the emotion of my voice on the radio that day, I stopped even paying attention to myself. And I as an individual failed myself, my friends, my, sorry, myself, my family.

So my daughters, my ex, my mom, my, my dad. my dad, everyone who loves me for who I am no matter what I do. And then I failed everyone around me that my friends, you guys, and this is how you feel because I didn't as an individual take ownership of the problem. So now I am and I'm going back to therapy. I'm going back to the gym. I'm back on my diet. I know I don't look at it, but hey, I'm on the road and, you know,

those little powdered donuts and the little thing with a coffee while you're driving. Delicious. outstanding. Are you talking about the chocolate-covered ones? Well, those ones, too. I found those ones at a gas station in, like, Texas somewhere. And they are... Donuts.

Bro, we don't have those things in Canada. Yeah, they have them in America. But Dunkin' Donut, donuts? Might be better than Tim Hortons. I'm going to go ahead and say they're better. And any Canadian that wants to fight me, Tim Horton is owned by a Brazilian company now, so whatever. The point is, I'm getting back to that life that led me,

that kept me in check, because getting your legs blown off as a rough go. And I'll tell you that right now, but it's not impossible. But like any injury, I have a spot in my back, like mid back, just below the shoulder blades that I hurt when I was 14. And I felt it in basic. I felt it throughout my whole career, but you work on the muscles around it and you learn to mitigate its impact on your daily life. Mental injuries are the same. And I can tell you, I was cleared of PTSD, which is like the extreme mental injury, but I did have a mental injury. and I forgot that. And then I had physical injuries on top of it

that I basically ignored. You know, like even the mayor of Ottawa, he'd be like, hey, Jody, you're limping today. What's going on? I didn't think you're going to make it to this event. This is before I, the wheels fell off. I go, yeah, mayor, you know, I was feeling a little pain,

and I know I didn't have to be here today, but then I remembered, yeah, I'm not a pussy, so I'm here. And he'd laugh. You're like, oh, Jody, you're a unique politician, that's for sure. But what I'm saying is, like, I'm too stupid to stay home tonight. so that tomorrow morning I can feel better and go to the gym and play with my kids. Like that, you know what I mean?

Like, it's too, too tough to be that dumb. Yeah. So a lot of this, clearly, is ego. Oh, bro. Ego is a motherfucker. And it's funny because, and I talk about this all the time, but, like, obviously, you wouldn't be who you were and have done what you've done if you didn't have an ego that drove you that made you want to be the, I mean, why would anyone,

subject themselves to going to sniper school. Yeah, it sounds like a cool job. It's a shitty job. It sucks. It's hard to do. But guess what? Your ego, you're like,

I want to do that. I want to be the best. Donnie Walberg shows you the sexiest part of the job, which is shooting bad guys. Yeah. Which is like so rare, by the way. Like, yeah, the rest of the job sucks. So you wouldn't have done, I mean, that, the books, the politicians, the podcast,

everything that you've done, there's some element of ego that drives it. Obviously, you want to serve and it. Well, you wouldn't be. If it was just pure ego, you wouldn't be able to do it either because you have to have a will to serve and a desire to serve your country and your brothers in arms. So that's true too. But to take it to the next level, you've got to have some ego driving. And then that's that thing that can drive you to success can also drag you down when you start saying, I can do anything. I can get through this.

I can get through this. I can get through this. I can keep on this path. I can quit drinking whenever I want. Those are all things that are. Well, your, your ego is your biggest enemy. But you are your own biggest critic as well. Jocko, I'm sure you have these thoughts, like any other human being, like, if I fail anyone today, the person I don't want to fail is myself.

Because you have an expectation of yourself. And I know, I know enough about you and I, you know, we are enough of the same guy as much as we are different that the biggest person I'm trying to live up to expectations are my own. So when you get up at 4 a.m. every day, God damn it. I wish I could. but I'm not built that. Bro, I like to sleep. I don't have to if I don't want to. Anyway, but like, see, listen right now.

Like, I can get up at 3.30 if I fucking wanted to, okay? I just don't want to. I don't have to. I can get all my shit done in eight hours, okay? Jocko, but your ego is the one that goes, I can do that. And then your critic is the one that goes, no, you can't, bitch. And if you fail, the first critic that's there looking is the one when you look in the mirror and you go, I would do it, man.

I would fucking do I would look in the mirror I stopped like Like like I keep a bit of a beard most times My beard got big And then it started growing in here And that's when you know

Something's up with somebody When they grew No I'm serious right now I know that's why it's for me Because I wouldn't look in the mirror Yeah Because when I looked in the mirror I saw someone who went

You drank last night again Didn't you Fucking loser Good job Yeah why don't you Shower and go and work so this started coming in because even if I looked in the mirror

it was just enough to be okay I'm not a complete mess run out the door my hair grew it's it's weird man I can I'm trying to write this down because I even if it doesn't come out for anybody but myself it's

I didn't go through it with the legs losing the legs and I did go through losing my legs again but a whole other thing bunch of stuff was happening like realizing I know I said the soldier is dead, but maybe I didn't really realize. And I had all these people looking up to me and also turning to me to have, okay, hey, my buddy's in trouble.

Go talk to Jody. This guy's, she's in trouble. And you're taking on all this other stuff. And honestly, man, self, I don't know what they call it, self-care. I think is what they call it. Self-care is your first prayer. Oh, yeah. Self-Aid. We call it self-aid. Self-Aid buddy aid. That's like your first person you got to take care of yourself. And luckily, my daughters are so awesome that, you know, I talk to them on the trip every day and they're okay, when you get back, yeah, we'll kick it off right where we left it off. But they're the first ones that are going to forgive you if you ask for it. And so I've asked my daughters. I told them daddy's going through some stuff, right? You've noticed. They're both like, yeah. Because kids don't get, they don't give a shit, echo. You got kids, right? Yes. How many got it again?

too. Yeah, they're the first ones are going to tell you when you, they were the first ones that tell me like, hey, how come you're not coming around as much as you said you would? Like, God damn it. Daddy's really busy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You've always been busy. We want to go to the park. But yeah, man, I'm on, I'm just trying to rebuild everything and stay

on the path. Finally, I think, I hope, when I'm 50, I'm not going through something again. Because by then, I'm just going to be too old to want to deal with shit. You know, I'm like, I'm not saying that's old. I'm just saying, You should have your shit together by the time you're 50, I think. Or maybe I will. But at least I'll have these lessons learned over the last...

Since 2007, really. When you said you're trying to write these down, do you mean you're writing down what you're going through right now? I'm writing it down and also because I am in the position I'm in, right? You know, we're authors now out of anything else. Like we talked, we joked about this last night. It doesn't make us artists, but kind of does. Right?

Writing is an art. But people... If people can learn from what I'm going through, and I know others have written books and done the, gone through the exact same thing, but we all have a unique way of presenting things. Maybe I turn it into a lesson. Maybe I turn into something I read.

Like, I've read your book four times since it came out. I'm rereading Tim Ferriss's book again, four-hour work week, because that's the direction of life that I would like to go in. Politics or not, like, doing it your way, but in a way that's smarter, not harder. And in the Army, right, we learn, There's the smart way, there's the hard way, and then there's the Army way, or in the Navy,

I'm sure it's the same. And sometimes none of them makes sense, but you get it done. But I want to spend more time on myself, my kids, my loved ones, my friends. And I think, and this sounds a little conceded and a little bit egotistical and a little bit selfish, but I've realized that getting my legs blown off, maybe I've earned the right to just do kind of what I want a little bit more than I did in the last. 10 years and I want to hang out with my friends do something constructive for society still but if I want to go shoot I want to go shoot if I want to drive my car across America well and I just want to do that and I think I've earned the right to have a little bit of flexibility in life to just throw my

kids in the car and go well I actually know you've earned that right and I told you that the first day I met you when you were talking about what you were doing and I was like man you're you're doing way more than I'd be doing, you know, I'd be, I'd be, spent a lot of time with my kids, but, you know, you have goals and aspirations and, and you've achieved those, you know, and you've done a great job up there, and so that's good, you know, it's awesome to see. And if that changed directions, and now you can focus on, you know, taking care of your family, taking care of yourself, which, yeah, have you earned it? Hell yeah, you've earned it, man. Well, I think what we always forget and what I forgot, and I've continuously have to remind myself

is I'm the beginning and the end of everything in my world. And that sounds like a self, what do you call it? Self-fulfilling prophecy? No, no, no, no. Self-involved, a little too self-involved. But if I'm not up and ready to go at 8 a.m., my kids don't get to school in time. And if my kids are late, their teacher's mad at them,

and then that's a snowball in their life. If I'm late, they wonder where I am. If I'm not at the office, my staff has to tell someone, hey, where's counselor, Middick? he's not here right now where is he i don't know or they have to make up a bullshit excuse and even if you tell them your job is to lie for your boss no no it's not your job is beyond to work on time jody so self-care and self-help and all that stuff is and taking care of yourself is the beginning of taking care of everyone that you feel you have a duty to yeah and that's ultimately

what i want to talk about here and what i want you know so you know when i when i when i when i bust your balls about getting up at 3.30 in the morning, that's what Jocko does to make sure that everything in Jocco's life falls into place for those. You have four kids, bro. I don't know how you keep up with them all. I only have two and I can barely do it. And so what I'm saying, when I go back to having my legs blown off earns me the right to be a little bit selfish about what I do with my time, well, I'm going to be selfish and take care of myself more, which I haven't for a decade. Well, I would expand that to really to everybody. I'm going to tell you what. I mean, And you owe it to yourself, everybody,

whether you've been wounded or not, wherever you are in life, because the fact of what you just said, you got to remember this, if you don't take care of yourself, you can't take care of the other people around you. And so you have to. You have to take care of yourself.

My simple thing, and my wife knows this about me, like, if I don't work out, I'm not a good, I'm not the same person, right? I'm not a good person. Yeah, I'm not a good person. You know, but really,

if I'm not taking care of my health, then everything else kind of starts falling apart. And so, yeah, you've got to take care of yourself. And if you don't take care of yourself, then you can't take care of the people that you care about. And so that's the duty, really. And that's what I wanted to talk about a little bit today and what I was saying before about if you're feeling it,

pull over. And that's the thing. Like, you can't expect anything of anyone else. If you can't, if you can't show up at work on time, like why should you your staff? And if you don't take care of yourself, then why should you expect to take care of anyone else? And we all have support.

You know, and I know I'm hammering this a little too hard, but dude, I'm learning a hard lesson here, and I'm trying to avoid, we all, I think, have to learn it, but you can learn it harder than others. And I think I'm learning it the really hard way because I am a public person. Like, like private, in Canada, we call them Bloggins. Bloggins is like Smith in the army.

So if Bloggins is having a rough time, he doesn't have to go on the radio and tell the world. He doesn't have to go on the Jocko podcast and tell the world, but he has to tell somebody. And that's the biggest thing. You think it's scary to go to a therapist who is a trained professional. Like, think of a therapist like going to the rifle range and learning from the master sniper.

That's what you're doing. You're going to learn how to shoot, except it's for your mind. Would you not go to the range to learn from a master sniper if you want to be a better shot, of course you fucking would. I'm a master sniper, and I'd go to the range and learn from master sniper right now. That's what a therapist or psychiatrist or psychologist or counselor, any of them are professionals in the mental game of life.

Now, I'm not saying all are equal as well. If you don't like one, fire them and get a different one. But start there and start looking for the help that's available, and don't put it all on yourself. And again, if you think that's embarrassing going to a stranger, which is actually pretty easy when you actually get in the room and start talking

you find you might they might have tell you to shut up because their hours up um try going on the radio or the Jocko podcast or writing a book like you know

I put out a lot of my warts in that book too and I'm still learning and I've got all these resources so you know it's not it's not it's not no one's too proud no one's too tough

and I'm about done like talking let's talk about something fun right now bro Like, no, it's all good, man. And I think, you know, I'm, as we were talking, and I didn't, I didn't know if we were going to do a podcast or not when you came down here. I didn't know if you want to talk about any of this stuff or we were just going to hang out. I appreciate this because the whole drive I've been thinking and talking to myself and listening to other podcasts. I'm like, I needed to do this. Yeah.

And really, like what you're saying is going to, it's obviously, it's going to help people, especially the idea. And I'm glad you talked about this a little bit. You kind of threw it in there. But like looking at yourself in the mirror, right? Looking at yourself in the mirror and saying to yourself, you know what? I need some fire support here. I'm going to reach out. I'm going to get it from some people.

And there's not a damn thing in the world wrong with that. And that's how you sort of, that was the thing. That was the thing that made you go, okay, I need help. I'm going to go make this happen. And so maybe that can help some other people that aren't feeling too good right now. Go look in the mirror. admit to yourself you got some problems maybe the problems are a little bit bigger than you

we've been in combat situations that were bigger than us you have to call in fire support there's nothing wrong with it there's no shame in it go make it happen yeah and take care of yourself take ownership extreme ownership I like the way you think you think you know

yeah I think that's a good place man I think that's a good place to chill if you want to talk about something different we can do that really easily all we do is we just ask Echo to talk for a little bit yeah good in Some philosophical stuff. Echo Charles.

Yes. Do you, you know, we want to talk about something good. Can you talk about something good? Like maybe how to support ourselves and if someone wants, maybe how someone could support this podcast. If they want.

It's your choice. Yeah. Jocryl oil and joint warfare. Here's the thing. You know how like, my joints have been hurting me lately. Yeah. And sometimes you can be addicted to.

Yeah, we'll get you some joint warfare for sure. Yeah. It helps. Not in a non-drug. Pharmaceutical way. It's good. Yeah, it's interesting. But it does work, especially if you're getting physical and whatnot. General joint disintegration or degeneration. Degeneration. Not disintegration. Not disintegration. Yeah. I don't know how much you would help with disintegration. Nonetheless, jocke us some supplements. They're good supplements. Therefore, your joints. One is krill oil, super krill oil. The other one is called joint warfare. Glucosamine conjoitin. Yes. Curcumin. And curcumin. That's for like.

cartilage it's all right it's joint warfare no because you know like when you're meniscus or like your elbow I stop saying such big words just talk I'm I'm telling you this is this is the truth the real deal so if I take this the knee I tweaked the other night this will help it will yes yes the the the joint warfare will I'm into it yeah fully also what we kind of talked about earlier jocco discipline pre-workout we call it pre-work but it's a pre-mission because there's cognitive enhancers. Jody's checking it out.

Fired up about it. Nonetheless, that's good. That's good for anything you're about to do. So when we say pre-workout, it can be pre-study, pre-exam, pre-test, pre-podcast. Podcast, whatever you like, it's good. Unless you can get those. Take one or two scoops.

Don't be a pussy. Take two scoops, guys. Like, come on, what are you saying here? Sorry, sorry. I interrupted you. No, no, not at all. I had a real long night

the other night of work. Did you take three? And I took three. Yes. What do you normally take? Two. Two. So what do you,

what do you weigh in now? 220? No. It's probably two 30. Two 30? And two scoops is enough for you? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Okay, so I'll stick to two scoops for now. Yeah. But I might ramp it up to four if I really have to. Be careful. Make sure you have something to do. Like a project. Like don't just take.

Like writing a book? Yeah. That's due. If you have to write, no, that's a great time to take it. If you have to write and then take it then do you find it? Does it make you jittery? No. No, no.

So it's smooth, but you got the energy. Yeah. Actually, the caffeine's pretty low. The caffeine is very low. It's the same caffeine as jocco white tea. It's the same amount. So per scoop. So you'll get double that, but it's not, it's 15 milligrams.

So it's meant to not make you all jittery because you can't. That's not good. But everything else I'm reading in here and what little I do know about nutrition. This is all stuff. for focus and long-term, like, energy release. Yes. The only thing missing that I don't know, I don't know science is B vitamin.

Is that in there? Are I missing it? I don't know. So turning 40 means I have to wear glasses now, too, by the way. Like my perfect, I wrote that extra small too. My perfect sniper vision, I think, is good for long distance,

but now I'm like my dad. You got to find the sweet spot. That's what it is. Oh, there is. Right? Because your eyes can't, like, focus or whatever. I'll be take can I have a case you can have that right there straight up I'll just keep I'll just keep this right here actually that's good and surprisingly

tastes good you wouldn't expect jocco to be like make it taste no I'm very hyper about making things taste good here's things don't if things taste like crap then that's it life is hard food should be tasty yeah I dig it and I understand that but you wouldn't why talk when you can drink so you're saying it's out of character for me to want them in line I hear what you think I think that's the daikata me you because I heard that before even like with how you said you You don't drink coffee. You're like, I just, I don't like the taste of coffee.

Why would I drink? I'm like, all right, you don't like the taste. Jocko's got a little weakness. No, breath. You don't like the taste. You don't like the taste, right? Listen, I made fun of- It's yucky.

When I did drink, my friends who drink beer, because that's Canadian is to drink beer. And I'm like, beer tastes like shit. I'll drink cider. Oh, the apple juice? I'm like, it's got more alcohol in it than beer, bitch. Like, it's what do you like? If he doesn't like coffee, he likes white tea. I think white tea sucks, but I'm not Jocco.

We got this, I'm making this protein powder right now. And like criteria number one was, yeah, it has to be good protein and all that. But the strong second criteria was it's got to taste so damn good. Yeah. Which. You forget you drinking protein? The first sample tasted really good. Like I was shocked at how good the first.

We tweaked it a little bit. The second sample came back. It tastes even better. I mean. Well, hang on. How much sugar are we talking? There's no sugar. Oh.

No, there's no sugar. Because that used to be the trick. Yeah. This protein's so good. Yeah. But it's 30 grams of sugar. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no sugar. And then we've got one more coming back, but the second iteration of it tastes delicious.

Yeah. And have any samples left? No. Echoes yesterday, he's like, he's like, well, you know, I never really liked protein powder. And I'm like, bro, this is nothing to do with you wanting to drink protein powder. You'll be drinking this like you want to drink ice cream. It'll be like a chocolate of milk. It's so good, yes.

Yeah. So we'll see about that. We're running on that one. So where can you get all this? The proof is going to be in the pudding, as they say. OriginMane.com. That's where you get it. Also at origin, main.com.

You can get, you will get, geese, rash guards. This is for Jiu-Jitsu, by the way. Oh, yes, sir. Made in America. I know Jody is from Canada. Better than made in somewhere else. Yeah. Not a lot of us up in Canada.

We don't have time to make geese and stuff. So make it in America. There's 10 times more people down here. Yeah, I dig it. And. All the stuff on there. It's made in America. It's good.

Go there. See if you want something, get something. Good way to support. Also, fitness gear. Jocco got a new kettlebell. That is heavier than mine. Is it his head? Is it your little head that you got on this?

It might as well be. Dude, that is the greatest. If nothing else comes from this, this little avatar of you, I want, Jocko approved. I want like an emulet of your head. Yeah, I'll give your shirt. It has one right in the back.

Okay. Do you. Done. Yeah, it's good. Yeah, the kettlebell should be his head because the reason he got it was because I had a heavier kettlebell. By happenstance, by the way. I didn't get the heavy one. Sorry, is this a kettlebell I can buy from Jocko?

No. Or this is just Jock bought a heavier kettlebell. I was about to say, which it reminds me every time I'm about to talk about kettlebells. The kettlebells I have, you know, the ones from On it. Yeah, I got all of them. Yeah, me too. Except I don't have the Bigfoot one. Too bad.

Because I was like, with the legs, I can't pick that one up. It's just too heavy. I'm prosthetics. Yeah, no, I dig it. And I haven't picked up anything for over a year anyway, so. That's what I was trying to imply to jaco that, like, since mine is heavy, I can pick it up, he can't pick it up, et cetera. It's two pounds every than his. So that's why he got the heavier one.

Roger that. Yeah, I'm tracking now. I'm tracking. 106 pounds. Yeah. Congratulations. Yeah. Is this a custom-made kettlebell?

No, got it from Rogue Fitness. Rogue right on. My boys at Rogue Fitness. Yeah, but it's like, it's like the boring round one. You know how you said you have the, um. I got the ones, yeah. That's why I thought you meant that Jocko was coming out with a kettlebell. I said, well, obviously it's going to be shaped like Jocko's head.

You should. That's my opinion. Because they could do that. And now I think a product was just born. Yeah, maybe. Actually, someone said that a couple of times before. Well, anyway. I agree.

I agree. This is the longest commercial ever, by the way. It's not a commercial. We deviated from the commercial to talk about this stuff. I'm sorry. No, we're supposed to do that. Okay. That's part of the deal.

You're right. I know. I forgot. I told you I'm in basic training for life again. Nonetheless, back to the kettle. Bells. If you get kettlebells, in a way that's not competitive with your friend, or if it's competitive with your friend, whatever. The ones from Onet, that's the cool ones. Jody has a whole set. I have the whole set. If you have the whole set, you're cool like us, not like Jocko.

Also, when you get Jody's new book, of course, Jocco's book, any of the books we read or go over on the podcast, I made it easy for you. Got a section on the website. Books from the website. Got them all listed. episode, by the way. Nice. Click through there. Get them through there. Real easy.

Good way to support as well. That'll take you to Amazon. I'll just say, sorry, real quick. Unflinching the making of a Canadian sniper and everyday heroes. Yeah. They'll both be on the website. Yeah. Right on your website.

They'll be linked. Yeah. And they are available through Amazon and what's the Kindle they have? Amazon, Kindle. Kindle. Kindle. That's Amazon too, I think. Yeah.

Everywhere, right, like, audio book. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well, I'll have it all in the website. So, yeah. When you get that, boom, click through. there it's way easier for you and it's a good way to support if you want to continue shopping on amazon to buy your weed whackers and what else we buy in amazon go ahead do that too good way

also subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already seems normal seems obvious iTunes if you want to subscribe as far as subscribing those it's more about like what you listen do you listen to iTunes yeah that's what it's exclusively exactly right some people they listen to google play can you subscribe on google play though i i don't know i don't Okay, that's what I was getting at. I don't know where else I get subscribed. Yeah, it's the same thing. Roger that.

And now there's different apps now. Yeah. Like, they're basically... And you mean different apps? Stop, you're confusing me. This is, okay, consider it this way. And I'm new to this too. Okay.

Where iTunes, when you think podcasts, you think I, iPod, podcast. So podcasts are exclusive to iTunes. It just feels that way. Like, where do you listen to podcasts? Well, on iTunes, obviously, here's the thing. Podcasts is a podcast. Just because iTunes has... It's like if you watch a video.

If I just went to the website, what's your website again? Jockopodcast.com. So if I go to Jagopodcast.com, could I listen straight from the podcast, from the story from the website? Yes. On my computer. Yes. Bob's your uncle.

Boom. There it is. Yeah. And I did not know that. Yeah, there's basically all these different ways to listen to it. And whatever way you choose to listen to it, there's where you subscribe. In the event of these things offering a subscribe option, which I think they all do. I'm not sure because I don't explore all of them.

It's just how it works. So what I'm saying is, if you want to subscribe, good way to support. Also on YouTube, which we have a YouTube channel, by the way, Jody Middick. Roger that. Not just the video version of this podcast, but excerpts and various creative videos. Here and there.

And some outtakes, by the way. Not many, but a few. I'll put more up there. Also, Jocko has a store. It's called Jocco store. Jocco store.com, obviously. That's where we get or we make these shirts.

Jody, see this shirt Jocco has on right now? The Victory MMA and Fitness? Yeah, he always has that shirt on, by the way. He does that. Well, not last night. That's why I was... It was underneath my flannel. Roger that.

Yeah, I was going to say, how did you even recognize it? But that's why I wore my friends... So this is a tactical beaver shirt, and it's a Canadian company started by canned soft guys. Good dudes. I was going to wear this last night, but I thought Jago would. show up in T-shirt, so I stayed in a T-shirt.

Yeah, yeah. And anyway, so now he's in a T-shirt, and I'm in the collared shirt. You're all dressed up, yeah, man. Anyway. Actually, Tactical Beaver was my last podcast, if you listen. Yeah. They were on the show. It's good.

It's pretty dope. You know what else is dope? The shirt, Jock was on, and the shirt I have on with Jocco's head on it. And if you want this shirt, Jocco's Door.com. There's a lot of shirts on there. I have a green and black one in my suitcase back in the hotel of that one. Boom. I thought it'd be weird wearing.

your shirt and hang out with you though. Yeah, I thought so, but there's a deeper meaning. I think the fact that Jocko's head is on my shirt and I'm sitting next to. You're part of the show, so you got to wear it. Oh, I'll wear it in public. I should wear the Echo shirt sometime. There's an Echo shirt? Yeah, there's an echo shirt. I need five immediately.

I have four friends of myself that want that shirt. Oh, all right. There you go. You got it. Sorry, man. I've been unplugged since May, basically. To me, you got to unplug sometimes. And that's the, you know what?

And that's going back. Yeah. Unplug. I'm going off Facebook while. while personal. I'm going to just keep the business side, but personal stuff is going to, anyway, finish what you're doing.

I'm sorry. No, you're part of what we're doing. I'm not going to read a list of things that you should or should not do. I'm going to ask you about it. I'm going to ask Jocko about it. Jocko tell me hurry up. I may or may not hurry up.

Whatever, that's how it always works. Nonetheless, jocco store.com, any shirt you want. I wrote that down. I'm going to go on that right after the show. Yes. There's also some patches on there, some hoodies,

rash guards hats women stuff on there kids stuff on there's good good beans beanies are on their way so if you go like well you figure well beanie could very well be on there they're on there do you wear a beanie jago when it's cold outside

just when it's cold out it's not a fashion saving for you okay I don't do anything just check it here to win man here to win no fashion no shirt looks good though bro for sure anyway jocco store.com I'm not saying go buy something I'm not saying that but you should but if you like something get something. It's a good way to support.

Also, I don't know if you know about this. You might, I don't know. Psychological Warfare. Is that ringing a bell? I mean, I know what it is. Is this something, is there more to your statement? Yeah. So, Psychological Warfare is an album that we created with tracks.

Jocko tracks. Ah, a playlist. Yes, a playlist, yeah. A mix tape. Mix tape. Yeah. The mixtape of Jocco's hurt. Yeah.

Essentially, but here it's for a specific. Oh, right, right, right. It's not him playing the ukulele because he plays ukulele now. Indeed. It's him telling you how to get through certain weak moments. Oh, is it his, his, his, his videos? No, no, no, better. More specific.

So here's what it is. Okay, good. I'm actually glad you don't, you don't know the specifics of it. Because that way you can talk about it for 28 minutes. It's actually number one on iTunes, by the way. But, you know, oh, that. I downloaded that. I never listened to it, though.

Sorry, bro. You don't need it. I just wanted to. for my friend. Yeah, you gave the support. Yeah, that's okay. But if you want, you can let it support you too. Yeah, that's really what it's for.

Yeah. To support you. I used to, you know how like, you know how when you work out and you don't feel like working out? Or you go to work out and you don't feel like working out. Yeah, I think you'll be like, you know what? I'll do it tomorrow. Yeah, I've been saying that since last October. All right.

I'm with you. October 2016, I've been saying that. So there you got. I thought that was my biggest weakness. I come to Jocco. I said, what are you doing? You don't feel like working out. I mean, I know, cool, you're tough.

What jogging? I work out. Yeah. And he goes, no, but there's more to it than that. It's not that simple, you know? And he explained it. I said, you know what we're going to do? We're going to record that.

Oh, is that that was the birth of the psychological warfare. That's exactly what it is. I did download it actually when it came out. I just, I forgot I even had it. Look at the tracks. Here, this is what you do. Look at the tracks and be like, because it's not just missing workout. It's like procrastination.

I'm a pro with that now. Yeah. So like. I got my black belt and procrastination. an Asian bro. Yeah, so consider one that you're like, okay, not only will it help, it'll 100% get you through it. Roger that. It's been the

case for me. Anyway, you can get that on iTunes, of course, and anywhere where they sell MP3s, Amazon music, whatnot. It's a good on. A couple other things. On Amazon, you can get Jocka White Tea. It's no big deal. Unless you want to deadlift 8,000 pounds minimum,

then you drink Jocka White Tea and you're there. No questions asked. 100% guaranteed you're afraid that talk if you want to get some books you can get Jody Middick's books there's two of them unflinching the making of a Canadian sniper and also his latest book Everyday Heroes which is war stories from the generations edited by Jody you get way of the warrior kid so you can teach kids to do the right things in their lives you know things like beyond the path that's all I'm gonna say Disp.

Disp. Freedom Field Manual. That book. Yeah, it's about getting on the path and staying on the path. That's what it's about. I'm not going to say anything else about that one. I will, except for that the audio version of that book

is not on Audible. It is on anywhere you can get an MP3, which means iTunes, Amazon Music, Google Play. And then, of course, the first book, Extreme Ownership, combat leadership there's a new version now

it's black which makes it a little bit cooler you can get that learn how to lead also beyond the books in the podcast if you need leadership let's say leadership guidance and direction at your company

at your business or at your team I have a leadership and management consulting company it's called echelon front and that is what we do we come to your organization we assess the situation and we get problems solved through leadership. It's me.

It's my brother Laf Babin that wrote extreme ownership with me, who was one of the platoon commanders that served with me in the Battle of Ramadi. It's J.P. Dinell, who was the point man and the lead sniper of Delta platoon in the Battle of Ramadi. It's Dave Burke, who was, an F-18 Marine Corps fighter pilot top gun pilot top gun instructor top gun senior instructor F-16 pilot F-18 pilot F-35 pilot F-22 pilot first

He sounds like he's pretty good his job he's not bad He's the first operational squadron commander for the F-35 He's the only man in the world qualified to fly all those aircraft But none of that matters because what he did was cool was he was on the ground with us in the battle of Vermont as a Anglico team leader with his team and was with what what is an Anglico it's it's the guys that call for fire they like it's like you take yeah they're J-TACs but the Marine Corps has Anglico but they call it Anglico Air Naval Gunfire liaison Roger that yep and that's what he did for us outstanding guy he's been on the podcast number 69 number 69 I believe so

He's part of the echelon front team as well also on top of that there's the muster It is The leadership seminar with us the echelon front team Again In 2018 we're only doing two musters people think we're going on a rock and roll tour. We're not going on a rock and roll tour not going city to city It's not going to happen in Cleveland. It's not going to happen in Milwaukee. It's not going to happen to San Diego. It's not going to have to happen in San Diego this year it's where can we go place it's going to happen in Washington DC May 17th and 18th so that's where you go if you're on the east coast east of the

Mississippi you come to DC sorry what day May 17th and 18th if you're west of the Mississippi you come to San Francisco October 17 8th 17th and 18th that's it like I said we're not going anywhere else so the reason is because we don't have time to do them it's to get all the Echelon front team together and set it all up. It's very hard to do because we're working with clients all over the country and all over the world. So we can't just do musters all the time. So that's where we're doing two of them. If you want to come, sign up all the four of them that we've had so far have all sold out.

These are going to sell out to 100%. So if you want to come, you got to go and register to attend Extreme Ownership.com. Can I reserve two spots right now? In Washington? Yes, you can. All right, cool, cool, cool, cool. Just put me in it in. Yeah.

Until then, until the muster, if you have questions or answers for us, or you just want to check in and share your wins, I notice people do that now on social media. They share the wins. Yeah, it's good. I got this promotion. I overcame this little situation.

They give a little brief on a situation. Hey, I had this guy that was acting wrong, and I took ownership, and boom, problem solved. I lost weight I gained weight I got a stripe on my white belt in Jiu Jitsu and I'm proud Yeah, and I am proud yeah big time I'm stoked when you get that stripe on the white belt Yeah or the blue belt sometimes people get the black belt the brown belt but what we see is progression Yeah like I said people lose weight people gain weight people stay clean people stay off the sauce People stay off the drugs people stay on the path and if you want to check in with us about that stuff

You can do it on Twitter, on Instagram, and on that fash bohachi boha. Jodi is at Jody Middick, J-O-D-Y-M-I-T-I-C. Echo is at Echo, Charles, and I am at Jocka Willink. Echo, any closing thoughts? No, thank you for coming on, and it's great to see you again. You too, bro. Mr. Jody Middick, you got anything else? Jago, thank you for giving me the mic back for five minutes.

No, I'm just kidding. I just want to say thanks to you for bringing me on today. I know you did this because you didn't have to because you wanted to, and I appreciate that, and I needed this. Echo, as always, you should stop drinking, by the way. Now that I'm a reformed drinker, that's the answer to everything. Just stop drinking. Surprisingly, it's a big answer.

It's a good answer. It's an answer that I agree with. You know, if you look at that study that comes out, I forget who does it. I think it's the UN. The most destructive force on earth is alcohol above Coke, heroin, speed, crack. It all put together, booze is still 10 times worse. Like when it comes, because it's available to everybody, right? I should thank everybody that's been with me through this.

You know, sometimes you think you're alone and you're not. I've had friends and family that have not stopped Basically you feel like they're bugging you But they're not they're keeping an eye on you And all the supporters and the fans and just the Jodi Middick fans Thank you for being there for me Thank you for being honest with me And thank you to my friends and my family

For putting up with me And I fell off the path I lost my bearing Pretty bad But now I've reorientated the map and I'm back on track and give me give me some time the Jody Midec podcast will be back up and running in short order give me six weeks ish and we should have to be pumping out some episodes who knows maybe I'll fly jaco up to Ottawa and we'll do an episode I don't

know the point is something will be coming and there's a few hardcore I'm talking granite hard fans that have like stuck it out and they send us at least a tweet a week to be like where are you bitch is at and we're coming back quick um just real quick shout out to my friends at tactile beaver if you want some of their stuff just go on tactical beaver yes like the animal uh you can get some of their gear it's pretty cool uh canadian twist a canadian flavor and if you're you know if you're the one guy in your unit that has it and you're not canadian you might be uh you might be popular for a minute but um and uh you know and the last thing uh goes out to my kids aela and kira ala is nine peanut curea cura cura is nine peanut cure is six

squeaky. They're waiting for me at home very patiently. And as soon as daddy's home, we're going to go to Jiu-Jitsu because daddy needs to learn to. And I know you guys don't like it now, but when you're older, you will appreciate it. And for the rest of everybody else, I'm going to look in the camera for a minute. Echo, you can edit that in, right? Sure.

I know I've said sorry before. I'll say it again. And thank you, I will say over and over again for supporting me. And it's because of people like Jocko and Rob who you'll meet, who's a Green Beret, and some other very special people in my life that I found a reason to get back to being myself. And that's about it. That's all I can say. Thank you, man.

Awesome, brother. Well, it's awesome having you back on again. And you'll be coming back on again and again as you continued on this journey you're on. Well, eventually I'll be better and we can just keep growing down and helping others. It's all good. When my next book comes out, We'll come back. That's awesome.

And so thanks for coming on. It's awesome to see you again. And like I said, we'll keep doing this for the next 20 years. And finally, thanks to all the service men and women out there right now. Right now. Think about that right now, right this moment in time. There's men and women out there on the front lines face to face with evil. so thanks to you all for protecting us and our freedoms and to the police law enforcement firefighters

paramedics and the rest of the first responders thanks for your service and your sacrifice to keep us safe here at home and to everyone that's out there grinding working driving trucks pouring concrete hammering on a project building bridges or building software sewing some garments or sewing a field farmers factory workers engineers electricians plumbers and pilots and ground crew and cooks and waitresses to everyone out there working hard and listening to this and just trying to get yourself a little bit better Today than you were yesterday. Thanks for listening and as you meet struggles and as you struggle to stay on the path first of all Remember you don't have to fight alone reach out to your comrades in arms

Call for fire support when you need it we win wars because we stick together and when we stick together we can overcome and any enemy and the struggles that you face when they when they do try to flank you do what Jody did do what a soldier does turn into the ambush turn toward the enemy fire and attack until next time this is Jody Middick and Echo and Jocko out