Jocko Podcast - 117: What to Do When You Have Bad Luck. Tactfully Question Leadership. Tyrannical Leadership Proven to Work. Ratting on Your Boss.

Episode Date: March 14, 2018

0:00:00 - Opening 0:00:20 - How to question leadership, and respond to someone questioning your leadership. 0:09:10 - Problems with exhaustion in Jiu Jitsu. 0:20:33 - Steve Jobs was know to be a tyrant of a leader sometimes. Can that work for me, too? 0:33:48 - How to lead people who are older and/or more experienced than you. 0:38:26 - What to do after you've pushed your team too far, and into negative attitudes. 0:49:19 - Does Jiu Jitsu truly relate in a real life fight situation? 1:02:02 - Should you ease into getting in shape? Or go Level 9 hard core? 1:23:44 - Why not to draw hard lines in the sand. 1:29:40 - Should you tell the truth about your bad boss to your boss's boss? 1:44:55 - How to deal with bad luck and not catching a break. 1:48:26 - Support 2:07:47 - Closing Gratitude.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 117. With Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. And we're doing a Q&A tonight. First one in a while. We've had a bunch of other guests and books and whatnot. So Q&A.

Let's go. Cool. First question. Jocko, from 115, podcast number 115 as a leader. How best to respond to someone like Corporal Meyer. When he brings up good questions in a brief that need to be addressed without derailing the brief and calling your competence slash authority into question. Okay, so what he's talking about is on podcast 115 with Dakota Meyer, which if you haven't listened to it, listen to it. It's long and it's very I don't know.

It's awesome. Anyways in part of that podcast Dakota is getting told how they're gonna conduct this operation and Dakota raises some points and says what about this what about that and what about this other thing And they don't listen to them and so the question here is if you're in charge You're the leader and you get someone that brings up these questions during a brief During the plan that you need to be that need to be addressed how do you do it? How do you handle that properly? Okay, well first of all And the most important part of this is if you involve your team in the planning itself, you won't have these questions come up during the brief. They'll come up during the planning. So that's the ultimate and best way to solve this problem. You don't plan in a vacuum as the leader and then present the plan to the troops and expect that you're going to have the perfect plan. You did is only your brain working on it. What about everyone else's brain? What about everyone else's perspective? They have experience and they have knowledge that you don't have. So in if you involve them in the planning then they ask you those questions early and you figure out what the

rights answers to those questions are so that's how you solve the problem right there now if it happens that for whatever reason you're you didn't have the opportunity to do that or you didn't do it well enough or whatever the case may be and now you start getting questions on your plan while you're briefing well first of all if they ask you questions that you don't have answers to then that that that could that you're wrong actually you could actually be wrong and not a lot of leaders like to feel that way but you should actually be happy that someone on your team is pointing out something that is gonna make the plan better as a whole so there's

that and and it's really easy if someone if you're in a brief and someone brings up a point that you didn't think of and it makes sense well then you can implement that into the plan okay so that now you might think that it hurts your authority, right, to say, hey, that's a good point, Echo. I didn't think of that. You might think or feel like that's going to make you look bad, but it's the opposite is actually true. If I go, no, Echo, hey, the plan's already completed. You weren't there for the planning, so just be quiet.

That's the guy that no one respects. That's the guy that's not looking good as a leader, and that's a person that's losing authority. So you don't look weak if you listen to members of the team, whether they're junior or senior. It also shows that you're incompetent if you because you because you missed a part obviously the question is pertinent that they asked or I should say if the question is pertinent and it is a good point then it shows that you miss an important angle of the plan. So open your mind, open your put your ego in check and incorporate it in there. Now this can also happen. If there's something that you know that you're right on, but it's something that you know that you're right on. If there's something like that,

and this, you know, maybe you get one particular individual that keeps pushing back and keeps pushing back. And you might have to, in those cases, say, you know what? Hey, echo. Let me talk to you after this brief is over

and I'll explain to you exactly while we're doing it this way. So that way it doesn't derail the brief because it might take a longer explanation than you want to, you know, for instance, the typical seal briefing was, We try to keep it 50 minutes to an hour.

So if you've got to spend eight minutes pulling up a different map and explaining some detail of the terrain to this guy that has a protest to what you're saying, you might say, hey, listen, when we get done with this brief, I'll pull you aside. Let me show you the, let me show you the terrain map, and you can see exactly while we're using this insertion route or whatever the case may be. So you can do that if you have to. And even then they might end up having a point that you didn't see. And then you can say, okay, well, I didn't see that. Now we have to give everyone a quick a rebiefing on some change in the plan But again none of this will happen if you bring your subordinates in and you let them Do first of all let them do the planning that's ideal let them come up with plan or let echo come up the plan

I'm not coming up the plan you go come up the plan I'm gonna check with you and make sure that the plan is going in the right direction Make sure it's not totally off track Sure and then you'll incorporate all these things and I'll have a better view of the plan I I can stand back and be the tactical genius as we talk about in the book Extreme Ownership. Like, that's how you do it. So that's the answer. Well, at least is an answer.

Yeah. Maybe other people have other answers. Seems to make sense to me. Yeah, that's that hard. It's hard, right? When you, when you, it's one of those things you always got to be conscious of when you have a plan or whatever.

And someone, for lack of better term, pokes holes in it. Be like hey, what about this? What about this? And then you have those two elements that you got to keep in mind where it's like the fact that it's your plan and then the plan You know the effectiveness of the plan? You mean your emotional attachment to the plan? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you got to keep the emotional attachment to the plan in check versus the actual effectiveness of the plan. Yeah, and people have a hard time doing that and what's cool is once you break away from that mindset Then it's really easy just to be and and everyone just kind of knows. Oh, yeah, he's got an open mind. He'll listen to you. Yeah, as opposed to some of what's cool. I'm gonna be a lot. He's got an open mind. He'll listen to you. Yeah. As opposed to some. As opposed to some. I Someone that has a closed mind never goes, oh, you can't, you can't get anything by this guy. He's just going to keep, he doesn't even help to point things out because he won't listen. And then guess what? You're using one brain versus 20 brains.

And more important than the brain power, the perspective, the different perspective. Because the guys in the ground are the guys with the technical knowledge and the tactical knowledge, they're going to know things that you don't know. That's the way it is. You can't know everything that they know. And so if you shut down all those. different perspectives you're looking at something from one angle yeah and do you see the whole complete picture when you only look at something from one angle no you don't no sir use those other perspectives you know check self-correcting machine mm-hmm you can let go of the

ego the taking it personal well personal when I was in the seal teams I called it the emotional attachment to the plan yeah because I'd see these people come up with plans and they would be so addicted to their own plan only because it was their own plan not for any Not for any tactical or strategic or operational reason whatsoever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They just like it because they thought of it. Yeah, it's natural. Yeah, it's very natural.

And there's some element of benefit to that, right? Because if you're passionate about your plan and I'm passionate about my plan, as long as we can eventually come to compromise, then we've put forth the best idea. Because I don't want you to not be passionate about your plan while you're planning it. I want you really come up to the best plan that you really believe it. And it's interesting. You know, you talk about poking holes, right? Poking holes in the plan and we all know that it's very easy to sit back and poke holes in the plan and what I'm telling you to do as a leader is to absolutely do that not be a jerk No, no, and I'm talking as a leader if I if I let you do the planning then it's easy for me to sit back and poke holes in the plan right which is good

It's good because we're gonna come up with we're gonna fill those holes Once I poke the holes we're gonna fill them and we're gonna know that they're taking care of also as a leader from a From a perspective point you think hey Jocker really knows what's going on he was able to find these holes in the plan the real reason I was able to find him is just because I was not Totally at at minuscule detail with the plan you were I was up at altitude Relaxing looking around yeah it's kind of I don't want to say cheating it's not cheating but it is cheating It is cheating it's that much easier it's so much easier to sit back and do it yeah and and let things go that way like when you know when you watch a movie and you have like some critiquing yeah it's cheating The movie's outstanding and then you have some critique.

Yeah, they shouldn't have chose that guy for that role or whatever. Meanwhile, the movie is like groundbreaking, whatever. You know, so it's easy to poke holes in the movie. Meanwhile, like, yeah, when it's done, you're all like poking holes at the little imperfections. Do that all the time. Makes sense. I dig it. Is that happen with your videos?

Is that one of it? Probably. Check. Anyway, next question. We have been training Jiu-jitsu for two months. Now we started actually rolling a few weeks ago from our knees on the mat like not starting from standing basically I've trained for an executed multiple oh I've trained for and executed multiple marathons competed completed a number of tough mutters trained hard in CrossFit hiked biked swam and nothing compares to the total mental and physical exhaustion

I feel after training Jiu Jitsu how can I combat this time train more supplements just suck it up when I get home I'm so beat in the next morning I wake up feeling like I was hit by a boss I know that feeling by the way despite the exhaustion and still sucking at it it's super fun okay so that's the jiu-jitsu and okay so there's a couple things here yes it's gonna take some time you're gonna have to train you train more your body will become conditioned to it that's probably number one number two is and this is so hard for people to do relax yeah it's really hard it's really hard for people to do especially when you first start

out I realize that the way you get to a point when you start to relax is when you're when when when the capability of your technique surpasses the capability of your strength mm-hmm so if I know that I can escape your choke attempt by whole Holding your hand and pulling your thumb and pulling your arm off and that's what I know. That's what I'm gonna do. When I realize that I can use a technical escape of swimming my arm in and then placing my hips

on the ground and then scooting away from your choke, I'll do that instead. But until we figure out the techniques, all we have is muscle. So the way you do is you just have to keep training. And you can try, can people actually, when they try and relax, do they, They actually get you tell me so I always tell people like relax more right like someone will say I just can't relax I'll be like relax harder

Yeah, but But it's it's so hard for people to relax because people say oh when I relax I just get submitted Yeah, right? Yeah, so but if you relax You'll at least be aware of what's happening and if you relax you can think about the technical The technical movement that you're supposed to do to escape. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I feel like, just like how you said, though. If you don't know the move, you're just going to go with what you know, and it's going to be the spazze in one way or another. You know, shit. If a guy's on you, like, mow- Is spasing ever effective? Well. Because I'll go and say yes.

Yes. Sometimes I have to spaz. And Dean calls me out on that a lot. Well, here's a thing about good defense, you just spas-in. Well, but your spaz has a job. A big, more than a sprinkle of technique in it, though. That's the thing. True.

Like you, and I told you this one time, you know how, like, if you say, yeah, you're strong, and that's kind of an insult in jiu-jitsu, because it's, like, saying, yeah, you're strong, but you don't have technique. It's kind of like, that's what you're implying. But, and I said this to you one time. I was like, you have, like, strength. You're strong. And you were, like, not defensive, but you were like, no, I have technique or whatever.

And I was like, yeah, I know that. I was like, shoot, that sounded bad. I mean, you have technique. We already know that. You've been training for 25 million years And you have good technique But with that technique is like a lot of strength in there Like when you um

There's like stuff oh yeah when like if you if I'll be in side control on on top on you and you have this like first of like your hands are in the correct spot Just to begin with that's to be and you can just kind of Get your leg in real easy every single time like I can't talk stop it stop it and I'm not weak I'm not weak but it's like the strength of that move Yeah It's like it's unstoppable and that's when I said it. I was like you're like strong when you do a technique It's like it's a strong technique. Yeah and I would say though there's a lot of I would say it's probably 70% Technique and 30% strength which which may confirm what you're saying you know that 30% strength

Yeah is still more than if someone has 70% technique yeah they have only 10% strength to back it up yeah yeah fully and even saying it's you know 70% technique 30% strength I mean, that's going to vary from time, from moment to moment or experience to experience. So if you're spazzing, even that's going to be a spectrum. Like how much strength did you use versus technique kind of thing? Yeah, because you can't spas for a long time. Nope. Because then you'll just be tired and you'll be gasped, yeah. Yeah.

So when I say you're strong, here's the thing. The fact is you're strong. Regardless if you have technique or not, you can lift a lot of weights, you're big. Try grab, like I'll grab your wrist. And when you break the grip of the wrist, it's way more violent than the typical person. You're a strong person. So there's no denying that. I know it sounds like an insult to whatever.

But nonetheless, back to the point. Yeah. So if you have strength going in before you gain all that technique over the years, just like how you said, that's what you're going to use. So the key is here, I think is to consciously, and it's not easy, consciously focus on the technique, consciously like remember, okay, where am I? I am in half guard right now? Because you know how like in the beginning when you first learn the positions,

you're like half guard is real clear guard is real clear when you start rolling around you're halfway upside down maybe you're twisting maybe your arms in the wrong spot across your body or something like you kind of don't remember oh wait i'm in half guard right now or i'm upside down but i'm in you know i'm on his back still whatever so you don't it doesn't just stick in your mind what position you're in but if you can do that then it starts getting getting routine so now after that you can figure out okay am i safe here because that's why you spas that's why you you you you you You can't relax because you don't know if you're safe or not so you're just trying to move and and get out of there or you know get that submission hurry up before he does something You know where this applies to life

This applies to life in when you're interacting with other people Oh, and you start to let's say you and I are having a Disagreement about something sure right and you start getting the upper hand on me And instead of me trying to use a technique to get out all I do is go that stupid echo you're dumb I just started interrupting you cutting off raising my voice I'm actually losing now And I don't you know

But I'm relying on Brute force Yeah as opposed to technique Now it could be also like we talked about earlier It could be that I'm wrong And if instead of admitting that I'm wrong Or taking like you're saying relax And looking at the technique and saying you know what

Echo has a point here that I can't debate against he's right and I'm wrong I need to admit that same thing if you came up with an idea for the plan and your idea was better than mine or you had a point that I needed to bring into the plan unless I can relax and actually pay attention

then I'm not going to be able to do that so that's how well that's one of the many ways when I always talk about jiu jitsu applying to life this is another example of where hey if the argument starts to escalate and you're using brute force to get out of it you're not winning just like you're

not winning in Jiu-Jitsu you're gonna gas out and you're gonna you're gonna lose yeah don't use brute force Yeah yeah not even 30% well maybe sometimes 30% okay the other thing is the other thing that's hard and it's well It's it's attached to what you're saying Don't have death matches every time Yeah right don't it like you find a partner and just be like okay let's try and make sure that We're not using so much strength I can roll with you or with Dean or or with Andy or whoever for a long time and and it's a you know we're sweating we're tired but we're not using all this strength we're not walking off the mat with with with

with a burned out muscles yeah it's a different it's more of a cardio I would say then than a strength thing when you get to a higher level because you're you just movement it's movement that's happening you know when to you know when someone's going to accomplish something and if you're gonna fight it with muscle you're gonna You're going to end up losing. Yeah. And it goes back to the time thing where I was asking, is it more time? And the answer is, yeah, it's more time.

Because, like, you learn that. And again, like, knowing where to be and where not to be, where you're safe and where you're not safe in jujitsu is a big deal. So you know how, like, okay, let's say, and I know this with you because let's say if I pass your guard. Sorry, you let me pass your guard. I don't know. You don't spazzing, like, you know, like in a tournament where the guys, like, really trying hard. not to let you settle in guard. So that's a different scenario, of course,

but you never do that. It's like you get to a point past your guard once you kind of get there. You just settle and you're kind of relaxing. Because it seems like anyway, that you know you're not in danger for a submission. So that's kind of really where the focus is. It's not the fact that, ooh, he passed my guard.

Oh, no, that's terrible. It's not that. It's okay, now what technique do I need to implement to keep myself safe? And the more you know about Jiu-Jitsu, the more you realize It doesn't take a huge amount of energy To implement that technique. It's usually just like an arm position

Make sure his hip is like over there and not over here and that's kind of that's it. That's pretty much it But if you don't know that you're like oh man you're using your whole body to get out of there kind of thing And that's that's where you're leaving no reserves in a military Perspective in the military you're always supposed to keep your reserves as long as you can Oh yeah you're just using it all up reserves trying to spazz out and get out of a dominant position You're also attacking a dominant position when you're spazzing to try and get out. Yeah.

You're, you're just going crazy, trying to get out of this confirmed position. I mean, across the side or the mount, those are positions that are really, sure, there's a transitional time when you should have definitely spaz to try and get out.

Once that's surpassed, well, now you're just expending energy. Yeah. So, defense is already out. Check your diet, too. If you're, like, really sore and everything, make sure you're getting enough protein, make sure you're getting enough fat.

Make sure you're getting, maybe get some super krill or some joint warfare or both. because your body needs it so just other things to try and put off that soreness and the pain

yeah all that twisting yeah there's definitely you know well yeah it's hard on your joints yeah yeah yeah kind of hard it's like they get a workout you know they get a workout that you won't be getting doing other stuff yeah unless yeah it's you know construction or something

like that same thing you're gonna get joint stuff that's how but yeah Keep it supposed to be fun the death matches though death matches. Yeah, white belt death matches. Yeah Probably Um, I would estimate 40% of all injuries in Jiu Jitsu come from white belt death matches is that you think that's a good number? Yeah, if not higher not higher yeah, yeah Check Next question You talk about you talk about empathy and perspective and building relationships as a leader

But I look at a leader like Steve Jobs, who's known for his hostile attitude toward people. Isn't that being default aggressive like you talk about? If I'm more naturally that type of leader, should I go with it? If it worked for Steve Jobs, shouldn't it work for me? So that's a good question. And I haven't actually read the book about Steve Jobs. And I think there's probably more than one, but there's one that's real popular, real thick. And someone gave it to me and I have it.

And I will someday. but I haven't read it yet, and I've heard it's really good and all that. And I've, that being said, I've heard the same things about, you know, Steve Jobs leadership style. He was real tyrannical. And I pulled a couple things here just from, well, here we go. In his book about Jobs, time at next and returned to Apple, the second coming of Steve Jobs, Alan Deutschman

described Jobs' rough treatment of his underlings. He would praise, as a quote, he would praise and inspire them often in very creative ways, but he would also resort to intimidating, goading, berating, belittling, and even humiliating them. So, and there's another article

by Ronald Regio, who's a PhD in psychology, and the article came from psychology today, and it says, He was obsessively controlling and given to fits of rage, throwing tantrums and yelling at employees and board members. He could tear down someone's ideas or the person himself in a public display. Some have said he took credit for others' ideas and his confidence led to a sort of over-the-top arrogance. So the guy's kind of tyrannical. One time when they were putting together the mobile me application and it was.

wasn't working well and Jobs told the team that was putting it together you've when it wasn't working you've tarnished Apple's reputation you should hate each other for having let each other down so okay so first of all let's look at the fact and you've heard me say this before that people's strengths are their weaknesses and their weaknesses can be their strengths so in Steve Jobs case obviously some of this stuff some of his weaknesses that we're talking about here were also strength because he was totally beyond driven right he was completely obsessed with with doing good and all that and and He pressed toward his vision extremely hard. He was relentless in trying to make things happen and again those are very positive characteristics if you got someone that's really driven and they're driven to the point of almost being obsessed

And you you take that and those are kind of good characteristics But when they go too far This is why it's dichotomy is the balance of leadership right when you go too far you because a tyrannical leader which is not good it's not good for a team and it's and it's and it's and a team that is subjected to that kind of attitude will not perform as well as a unified team period period so the guy was clearly hostile and at the same time clearly clearly he was one of the most successful business leaders in history right so would you look at him and say okay well maybe I should Be that way maybe I should be a tyrannical leader and I would say to that no

You do not get to do that and here's why let's look at some other characteristics that Steve Jobs Had first of all he was perhaps the foremost Technological visionary in the history of the world Right I mean he had a vision of technology that very few people in the history in the world have had and I will go a little bit more narrow I think he understood things on another level when it came to technology that the part of how human beings would interact with technology that's the part that I think he really had just incredible vision for he realized like oh these people will want a computer in their house and they'll want it to reflect the way they live and they're

going to want music in their pocket they're going to want all of their music in their pocket and they're going to want a phone that can do you know he had this vision of how people would interact with technology that I don't think too many people had. So, so that's number one. Number two, he had a phenomenal feel for design, right? For design and how to merge form and function together in an aesthetically pleasing and oftentimes stunning way, right? If you look at the design and that's uncommon, especially for someone to have that

feel for design and still have a massively, technical background right so so that again work work we're making a person that's like one percent of one percent of one percent already on top of that he got into business his business at the right time in the right place he had the right background on top of that the guy could speak well the guy was very articulate right he was very articulate with his vision if you you watch his keynote speeches that he would give at the whatever it is when they have the Apple Convention what's that thing called the Apple

convention yeah they have that thing well he get up on stage and he'd talk about stuff and he would articulate that and he would do it with real clarity and he was very convincing and he was very captivating and people were you know they'd say Apple's a cult yeah they'd follow that guy so he had all those skills those world-class skills and I'm not using that term lately I'm talking world-class skills And then all those world-class skills are combined together into one package, one human being. And there you got. You got Steve Jobs.

So he's got all those advantages. And then on top of that, he's had some luck along the way, right? He had some luck in his timing and his upbringing and the exposures that he got and being exposed to computer programming and those things back in the day was rare. And he got lucky in having that unfold from it. So we had all these things going for him that helped propel him and his company to the top. So now if you're thinking maybe you should use his leadership style, the questions that you should ask yourself is, are you a one in a billion technological visionary or visionary of any kind? The answer to that is likely no. And if you think it's yes, maybe you should check your ego a little bit.

Then you have to ask yourself, do you have an eye for design, an artistic eye for design like Da Vinci or Michelangelo? If you have that, you probably don't. If you think you have that, maybe you should check your ego again. Are you a gifted speaker and storyteller? And can you convey your vision with total clarity to big, giant groups, broad groups of people? And if you think you can do that, again, you. You should check your ego. Can you count on luck or do you want to count on luck to close the gaps in some of those other

areas? So if you could do all those things, if you answered yes 100% to all those questions, then okay, maybe you can get away with being a kind of leader that Steve Jobs was. But if you're a normal person, if you're a normal human being, then maybe you should try and be a good leader and maybe you should be a leader that builds relationships and forms cohesive teams and coalitions that help you drive your mission forward despite the ups and downs of whatever business you're in so that's it Steve Jobs had a lot of other things that made him successful and leadership and he I'm gonna eventually read the book but he clearly had some people around him that that that utilized that skill the skills that he did have and moved help moving forward right

other people at the company other people early in in Apple saw that hey you know what this guy he might be a little bit hard to deal with but he's got some things that we won't find anywhere else so let's prop them up and let's move forward yeah and that's that's the way it works yeah I think they call that survivorship bias where like you see oh you see a successful guy yeah yeah he did it that way so let's do it that way um but yeah you you kind of don't see all the other factors or whatever almost like you if you really think about it if Steve jobs were to be like in these tyrannical ways or whatever if he were to be less like that maybe there would be more success you're saying but he was so strong in these other

areas that it kind of like mitigated the effects you know there's there's businesses that are successful because they're a successful business model and in that you have really bad leadership yeah and even that can mess it up kind of thing yep even the bad leadership doesn't it's the the model is so good yeah which is a little bit contrary because you know I always say leadership's the most important thing on the battlefield but in the business world if you have a phenomenal idea then you can you can be successful on that idea alone now that is that is a unicorn that is one of those rare things where you have something that's that incredibly different

and stands out from the crowd so much that it's gonna be successful no matter But, you know, when the early gyms, MMA type gyms, if you had one, you were successful, it didn't matter what kind of leader you were, because you had it. And now there's competition. And if you're not, if you don't have good leadership and you're not putting forth a good product

amongst all the competitors, you're gonna have problems. Yeah. You can have problems with it. Yeah, and the more I kind of listen to you and Leif, the more I realize that even then, the, like, it's almost like you have to have a minimum, level of leadership. Like you don't be,

have to be perfect if you have one of these situations where the product of the business model is so good. But still, even your leadership can mess that up. Oh, yeah, you can absolutely destroy it.

Yeah, like you're in a situation where, like, now no one wants to work for you. Now what? Oh, yeah, good. Nice MMA gym. You don't have any, you got to work there. Yeah.

You know, the whole time. And you can't, you know, so it's going to kind of fall apart after a while. So maybe like in the beginning it'd be good, but it'll fall apart because of your lack of leadership. For sure.

And you can see that. I mean, Who's the guy that just got removed from Uber? I'd have to go into D. I'd have to really drill down on it, but the CEO of Uber got removed. Yeah. And, you know, the business model's awesome.

Yeah. And they still remove the CEO. Why? Because there's issues there. Yeah, yeah. And so, well, it's a great business model, but we still need good leadership. Yeah.

So, yeah, like, I'm basically confirming what you just said. The good business model. We'll get you to a certain level But then to get to the next level you're gonna need leadership and that's why leadership is the most important thing on the battlefield Yeah, man So what the moral don't necessarily be Tyrannical? No, in fact don't be straight up Tyrannical yeah don't be and I'm not saying that there's not times where you have to have a little tyrannical flare

Because there there may be times where you need to where you need to flare up a little bit yeah, but it's just It should be rare. Yeah. It should be rare. The problem is it becomes a crutch for people and then they just continue to do it more and more and more and more. And then it doesn't work. It's like, it's kind of like drugs too. The like when you flare up on someone and you win or whatever.

Yeah, yeah, you kind of like it. It worked. Yeah, it worked. And you kind of like it feels good. It feels powerful. So I think some people that's how, you know. So they'll do it and it'll work and they'll be like, yeah, I won't need that little. Yeah.

And what's even worse is like when you, when that's where you, You learn from someone. That's what you saw. And then you do it and you go out work for me too. And all I have to be is treat people bad and be a jerk and yell. And my subordinates will do what I tell them to do. And they will, right? A subordinate will, if you bark at them and scream at them,

they're gonna do what you say at the moment. The problem is what kind of team have you built? That's the problem. Yeah. What is that subordinate gonna do when you're not there? They're gonna do everything they can to cut corners and, and really they don't care about you. They don't wanna do good.

Good job for you yeah so when you're not there they're not gonna do a good job for you yeah so you get addicted to yelling and screaming but it it doesn't work in in the broad sense of what you're trying to make happen yeah slowly falling apart Next question I'm 26 years old I'm currently an undercover detective I've recently been told that I'm being promoted to sergeant over our department's Investigation's division I've been the youngest person to hold that position in our department's history All the guys I'll be in charge of are much older. Some in their late 40s. How do I as a younger leader lead them? How do you demand and earn respect from an older group? I'm ready for the job and know what the job entails,

but I'm nervous to lead a group of nine people that are all older than me. So I'm, I've answered this question over and over again, and I'm going to do a quick job of it here just because people may not have gone back and listen to all the other podcasts, but you have listened, the answer's always the same. And it's always the same whether you're a young person leading old person, whether you're an old person leading young people,

whether you're a woman leading men, a man leading, man leading women, whether you're coming in from a different department into a new department that you don't know anybody, whether you're going into a thing that you don't have experience. It's like all the same.

Basically what it is, you're going into a leadership position. That's what it is. Be humble, listen, take advice, build relationships keep your ego in check also that one of the reasons I pulled that did pull this question is like how do you demand respect well the answer is you don't demand respect and if you don't if you do demand respect you'll get anything but respect from people mm-hmm so so get that out of your head you earn respect and

how do you earn respect you respect them in this case you respect their experience you respect their knowledge you respect it they've been doing it long time you have respect for it and when you show respect for them they're gonna respect you back now none of this means be passive right this doesn't mean cower down no you still have to lead you still have to step up but it does mean be humble be open-minded be proactive listen ask questions ask for opinions decentralized all aspects of operations including the planning which we already talked about and then with all those things set a high standard and then the final

and most important well I don't know it's equally important I'd say work harder than everyone else and expect nothing in return that's it yeah that's it you're the boss you better be it you better be at work before everyone and you better be leaving work after Everyone and that's how you develop a reputation of being a hard worker and being a hard worker in its own right Garner's respect from most people there's there's a fraction of losers that are like oh Echo he works so much it's it's so lame like no Why because I'm making him look bad or something like yeah yeah yeah he's he's just he's yeah like there's a small fraction of people that that might think that way But but no you work harder you put in the time you put in the effort you You study, you read what you're supposed to read,

you get the professional knowledge that you're supposed to get. You don't impose that on people, but you have it. Because your book knowledge, when you start off in this situation, your book knowledge isn't as strong as the experience guys. In this case, you know, in the law enforcement, the guys that have been in the streets, they know stuff that you don't know. Yeah.

So you study what you can, but you keep an open mind so you can listen to what their experience says. Yeah. Like don't impose on them Wait, when you say don't impose it on them Does that mean don't impose them like make them? It's like them echo section four to alpha of the document says that we're supposed to use this Methodology when we do this you should know that methodology you should understand why that

methodology is important but if you say hey jocco we don't do it that way and here's why I shouldn't be like well I'm telling you Yeah, it's by the book yeah it's by the book now if it's by the book because it's there's an ethical reason Okay, well, then that makes sense. But if it's by the book because that's what the book says, by the book, by the book. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or you know the guy who's like who works extra hard, but he kind of, in a way, throws it in everyone's face,

how hard he works, you know, don't be that guy. That's an important thing. It's a very important piece. You don't step on people's toes with this stuff. Yeah. That's wrong. Don't do that. Yeah, that's junk.

Check. Exquish. Jocco, I'm extremely, extremely driven and have high expectations. For myself and my team it appears that now I may have pushed them too hard and they're developing negative Attitudes I feel like you're going to say play the game and develop relationships with them But should I really just ignore who I am? Should I try to be someone different than myself? Yeah, well you called it question person whoever asked this question You called it I that's exactly what I'm gonna say I'm gonna say you need to play the game

Look at what your current path has done Look at what you the real you look what it's done The real you has created a negative attitude with all your team That's the real you So is that what you want to perpetuate? Creating negative attitudes against you with your team and by the way they're just getting started and if you think negative If you think you're gonna keep acting the same way and the negative attitudes are gonna somehow miraculously turn positive that's not happening they're gonna get more negative yeah so when people

have negative that's so somebody quoted this the other day on on on social media's on Twitter someone you know no the quote was like no no no it's not my fault when I my subordinates have a bad attitude or something like that and about a bunch of people responded he should read the book extreme ownership because it absolutely is your fault it is your fault if your team has a bad attitude it's your fault you're the leader you own the attitude if their attitude is bad then it's then it's actually your fault now this is not to say that you can't have a bad apple on the team that's completely possible and who's responsible for getting rid of the bad apples

you are you're the boss because the fact the matter is you might have a bad apple on your team you might even have two bad apples on your team you don't have 14 bad apples on the team when you have 14 apples on the team guess who the problem is it's you so here's what you do little tactical advice try and get some perspective from them trying to understand where they're coming from what challenges they face what's pulling them off track and when you do this you kind of take ownership of it in your approach so you say hey guys I realize I don't think I'm really seeing things from your point of view and I need to because I'm here to support you

and without you performing well then we fail so I think I need to do a better job of supporting you and I can only do that if I know what your issues are so I can do my best to get them fixed. So what can I do better to help you? Right. So now they're going to start telling you. Well, here's what here's this problem and there's that problem. And then what you do is you listen to their problems. You actually listen to their problems.

You don't say, hey, quit complaining. No, you actually listen to their problems and then you actually see what you can do to mitigate their issues. And as you do that, guess what's happening? You're actually forming a bond. You're actually forming into a team because you're working together to solve issues. Again, it sounds really simple, right? But clearly, here's someone asking this question.

Now, again, like, if you have some members of the team that are actual negative complaining whiners, then you might have to get rid of them. And and that's part of being a leader is knowing when you have to get rid of someone You know, I sometimes people they they take the extreme ownership attitude and they say you know what I'm the leader I own everything I'm extreme ownership And if someone's not performing well then that's my fault. Yeah, that's my fault I need to coach him more I need to I need to do I it's my fault that my team member is not doing well and that's correct it is your fault it's your

responsibility to train him coach him mentor them and do whatever else you can do to fix them But at the end of the day if they still are not Competent at their task And you've done everything you can it's you're responsible to get rid of them that is also a part of ownership So yeah like I'll have someone complaining that they've got oh this you know one of my team leaders Like they're talking about their subordinate team leaders the loom what am I this this guy's just a bad leader Mm hmm

Why is he still here? Yeah, they Oh, your team that team isn't doing well because they have a bad leader. Whose fault is that? Well, it's the leader's fault. No, it's your fault. You're in charge of the leader. Yeah.

It's ridiculous. So, back to the original question, you're, whatever you called it, you're, who you actually are is not working well. He probably is thinking he's a Steve Jobs type. Hey, oh, you call him, we got to do this. Yeah. But it's not working. And he's not in a unicorn business model that's still making a tall. of money regardless so what does he have to do play the game build the relationships

see the perspective of your team so that you can actually form a team be a better leader that's basically what I'm saying yeah so they in it's interesting the you know what they call framing you know you frame something something a certain way to make it kind of sound a certain way whatever so he said extremely driven and have high expectations for myself and my team. It appears that now I may have pushed them too hard and they're developing negative attitude. So being extremely driven and having high expectations doesn't equal driving them too hard

so they develop negative attitude. Those are two different things. You can still be extreme. So. Yeah, you can absolutely have extremely high expectations. You can be driving extremely hard and you can still have a. incredibly positive attitude with your team yeah no doubt yeah good point so and then it gets equated into that's just who I am so he just kind of put it all into one ball and without

one there's no other kind of situation it's just not how it is so apparently you might be committed he might be committed to being all of these things and that's who I am and that's kind of it you know kind of thing and I think that's like the mistake plenty of people make we say this a lot where people be like hey I'm just straightforward, you know, take me, take it or leave it kind of thing and be like, okay, but you're going to, in your case, lose, you know, in your, in your situation. That's the big piece, is that in their case, they're going to lose. Yeah. So, let me ask you this question.

If you're so driven and you have such high expectations that you want to win so bad, but the way you're performing as a human being and as a leader is going to make you lose, then what are you supposed to do? You change the way you behave. You become a better leader. Yeah. That's what you do. Yes, sir. So you take, and this is total speculation on my part, but you keep, okay, so this equation that we're presented with, being extremely driven, keep that.

High expectations, keep that. Pushing your team hard, keep that, I would say too hard. And that's going to be a judgment call from day to day for sure. But there's a part in here that's more implied that you're being to ask. Somewhere in here you being an asshole how about you take out that part Take out the being the asshole part and then keep everything else see how that goes. Yeah Because you kind of know when you're being a dick, you know what I'm saying? Unless you're like not being honest with yourself there are some people that don't

Yeah, there's some people that don't get it There's some people that don't get it. Oh, right because it's like you know how like when you don't Like some people they just can't step outside of themselves and be like hey if you said that to me I wouldn't care kind of thing and be like bro Oh, you know, you're not me and I'm not, you're kind of, yeah, yeah, you're right. They can't detach. Yeah. It's absolutely people that, that don't know. Yeah.

They're socially incapable of receiving, you know, clues, social clues. Yeah. Social cues from people. Yeah. You know, they don't see the look in their face when they're talking to them. Yeah, that's true. I mean, I'm thinking of like three examples right now. There's all kinds of examples.

Yeah. Also, then that would go back to what you're saying, how you say, get input from them yes so you got to kind of yeah so yeah you can do it it's a solvable problem oh this is a very solvable problem and I've seen people solve this problem I've I've helped people solve this exact problem and the weird thing is they think and it's part ego but it's also part they're just their own person they think they're doing a great thing like they think that they're driving everything that they're doing in their mind They're just awesome for being for pushing so hard. It's just the way I am and all that stuff and they think it's awesome

But again if you want to win so bad Then you have to play the game you won't win by abusing people You won't win with a team anyways You won't it won't happen Yeah It's no use being the best dancer if you're not invited on the dance floor I'll leave that one with you yeah yeah yeah yeah no worries cool next question actually that problem is so

solvable that you could this is possible where you could just show just that much like more I don't know caring or respect just that much and do for like two weeks yeah just the idea that just the fact that you're doing it now people would be like hey wait he's showing a little bit here's the thing here's the thing if a person has an ego which this person could very well have a big ego because that's why they have these high expectations and that's why they're so driven because they if they have that kind of ego that's the person that you can't help because they just look at the team and say those guys should be harder workers yeah those guys aren't working as hard as me they're not as focused as I

am yeah they don't care as much as I do so to everyone else on the team right has a problem yeah but but I'm perfect and you can't you know look at how driven I am look at how focused I am Look at how high my expectations are of myself But if you can here's another thing If your team cannot relate to your expectations Like they don't even they don't even see them as realistic or achievable or anything What good are your expectations? Yeah What good are they? They're not any good no good they don't make any sense

Next question Dear Jocko I've been watching some of your YouTube links with great interests Must be a subscriber to the YouTube channel Yeah watching those videos I'm sure you're extremely busy but I have a question

which if you have time I would greatly appreciate your reply I've taken Jiu JITTS Very polite opening Yeah very much so Okay I'm going to incorporate that approach

I've been I've taken up BJJJJJitsu recently in London in the UK So a beginner I know you're a great advocate of the system

But my basic question is Your opinion Does it truly relate to real life fight situations. I'm a man now approaching my mid-40s in pretty good shape. I'm looking to focus on a martial art that would help me if I ever need to defend myself

or my family. I love the discipline and humility of BJJ and as a workout. I know and I know the philosophy of BJJ is that most fights end up on the ground and it's here that BJJ excels. But what of the other guys or what of the other guys who might be standing

around ready to battle bottle you or kick you in the head once you're grappling on the ground etc again this is a question that first of all we I've answered this a lot of times sure but I'll answer one more time sure do you just is the best place to start you should also learn boxing wrestling kickboxing this is all in discipline equals freedom field manual so if you get that book this will be laid out for you very well does so so yes that's what you You should start studying with this guy mid 40s needs wants to learn something. Yes Start with jiu jitzu does it relate to real life situations. Yes, it does it absolutely does I've been in them it's extremely effective and And you can see that over and over again speaking of YouTube

You can see how effective jiu jitsu is in real fights now It's important to remember that for self-defense the grappling arts in general should be used primarily to get away it to avoid going to the ground right like when you bring up oh well there one if there's other people that might be there you should why are you on the ground jiu jitza will give you the best opportunity to get up off the ground that's what it gives you and then you can get away from the people that are getting ready to stick you with a bottle smashed bottle or getting ready to kick you in the head if you don't know jiu jitsu

guess what you're doing you're on the ground and you're getting kicked in the head and you're getting stabbed with a bottle That's why you train Jiu-Jitsu So you can get up off the ground Not so you can take someone to the ground Because by the way, and I've said this before If your goal is to punch me And you're standing at a punching distance

Or a striking distance from me I can just run away That's my self-defense I can get away from you So that's why we train Jiu-Jitsu That's the primary That's why you should start with it Because otherwise

I'm just going to get away from you If you're not grab If once you grab me though I can't get away from you anymore now I have to be able to to handle myself That's why I know Jiu Jitsu so I can handle myself once you've grabbed me if you're not grabbing me I can just get away from me I can just run away from you mm-hmm if you don't want to run away because it's gonna hurt your pride Well then guess what that's that's why you train all the time I mean now now we go back and forth and we can talk about all the negative things that will happen if you get into a street fight like the fact that you can get hurt

You can get stabbed you can get shot you can get sued you can get arrested you can ruin your life You can do all these horrible things can happen if you get in a street fight So so so so so so that's why my advice to you is to avoid street fights Yeah, that's what you do and by the way that's why you work on your awareness That's why you make your your your your your wife and your children Aware of what's going on around them to pay attention to what's happening in the street It's one thing that was interesting when I was in Australia and I was in a nice part of Australia There's and I was talking to some people about it you know

There's just a very relaxed atmosphere Where I was I was standing in an a very nice part of Australia there's a very relaxed atmosphere when you're in America there's a heightened atmosphere there's a heightened awareness you have to have and depending on where you are and it's the same thing I'm sure in Australia I only went to the nice part I'm sure you could go to some some tough areas where you better be more aware of what's happening but teach your kids because some kids don't know the difference maybe you don't even know the difference of what to look out for what kind

of people you need to watch out for in the street so work on that and then yes train and a you're in UK and of course I've said this before if you are truly in a situation where you feel threatened on a regular basis well then what you need is a firearm because if someone's gonna attack you with a knife or with a bottle or with themselves having a gun the only jiu jitsu isn't gonna help you boxing is going to help you as screama is not going to help you someone has a gun so yeah and and by the way oh yeah if you're in a knife fight and you know some ascima that will help you but what if the other guy's better than you what what if there's two of them yeah the minute you put two people against one

the odds of winning are it just extremely low extremely low does it happen yes it happens can you knock someone out yes you can that's why you train boxing Yeah. So, yes, again, train some jiu-jitsu. Start there and go and keep going and don't stop. Yeah. Yeah, it seems like this question always comes from a place where they just assume all these things. And those things are, I'm going to choose to get in a fight with someone, bring it to the ground in the middle of the street or in the club.

I don't know, wherever. Wherever there's potential other attackers with bottles and kicks to the head. And so all these things are just assumed, kind of like, yeah, you take jihitsu. Now you can go to the club and get in fights and win all the time. It's kind of like that's kind of where the question is coming from. Where you said, yeah, it allows you to get up. So basically, it allows you to control your situation, your fight scenario. Yeah.

More. Yes. And I would even say it allows you a lot more to control it. Because even if you do take it, let's say you take it to the ground. I meant more by a little bit more. More than nothing. Yeah. No, yeah, I'm saying a lot more.

Because really when you think of it, And I try to, granted, yeah, even like at a beginner level. So let's say, okay, if you choose to engage with someone in some kind of fight, right, it's up to you how heavy you want to take that fight. You want to go to 10, you go to 10. You want to go to just one, you can go to one. So if you wind up on the ground, which is the worst place to be if you don't know anything, on the ground.

And that's aside from how you said, if the guy has a gun and shoots you, that's a day. You're talking about that's not even a fight scenario. That's, you know, so you wind up on the ground. It's a gunfight. It's a gunfight, yeah. If you know boxing, you're going to have almost no control over that scenario. If we're on the ground, it's on the ground.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Your boxing is not worthless. Yeah, marginalized, we'll say. But it's heavily marginalized. Yeah. Heavy marginalized. Yeah. Same thing with, you know, kickboxing and whatever.

So there's that. If you know jujitsu, just a little bit of jujitsu, if you're on the ground, you have control of the fight more, depending on your level, whatever. So if you're at that point still facing a threat of someone with a bottle or kicks to the head or whatever while you're on the ground, compare it if you know jiu-jitsu versus if you don't know jiu-jitsu, you're still saving way more control.

Way more. So meanwhile, like the box situation or karate situation, whatever, it's going to be less effective in controlling your situation. Now, if you don't look at it like that, like, if you look at it like, okay, this guy's squaring up to me, now I want to mess him up as quickly as I can, then, okay, you know, like, you can do boxing and just take it to 10. But you don't have the option of taking it from one, two, three, or nothing like that. Yeah, but the other thing is, like, it's hard to knock someone out. That's the second part. It's hard to knock someone out.

Does it happen? Yeah. It does happen. And it can happen to you too. It can happen to you too. It's but it's hard to knock someone out and It's it's risky as soon as you start saying, okay, you and I are gonna just trade punches There's a risk for you for both of us. There's a risk for me The assurance of me being able to handle the situation the way I want it to go by closing the distance with you getting control getting a hold of you If I'm trained and you're not yeah, you're you're you're done. Yeah, you're done right?

That's the way it works. Yeah. And then even then, that's like if you choose for this guy to be done. So if your, if your sole purpose is to keep yourself safe. Yeah, you could just put the guy to sleep and walk away. Yeah. Or gently lay him down the ground. Or just be like mount.

I'm not even hurt him. I'm not going to put him to sleep. Nothing mount. You see a guy. You can see the guy coming with a bottle or whatever. Way more if you know jujitsu. So, well, there's the whole thing of when you're just used to the physical contact. You know, the body's clashing and, you know.

Grappling less shock you yeah So yeah train jiu-jitsu Then train boxing wrestling kickboxing and of course now people will be like what about judo? Yes Train judo. What about Sambo? Yes, train Samba. Yeah, what else? What else do I need to come? What about Krav Maga? Sure Train it. Yeah, yeah Yeah, train everything Yeah, I'm down I think start with Jiu-jitsu

What you said on a real general level is the most critical thing is like when someone gets a hold of you like and you put this into perspective a while ago when you were like yeah if someone wants to fight you walk a little Or run away. Yeah. He goes, but, and he said all these scenarios, you run away. You go away. You want to keep yourself safe? You don't be there. The best thing to do, to avoid the getting punched, falling on the curb, dying, getting stabbed,

getting kicked, getting stabbed with a bottle, getting arrested, getting lawsuit, getting all those things happening. The best thing to do, run away, walk away. Yeah, leave. Fully. And then you said, but what happens when you can't run away? Because the guy grabs you. There you have it. Yeah.

So, yeah. Like yeah, I'm gonna train boxing so I can do self-defense. Oh, no, you want to fight somebody. That's what you want to do you want to punch people in the face Well boxing with no jiu jitza. I mean yeah, I mean, but boxing is a is a skill that every Buddy should have not everyone good people should have because there's two critical things on that that you learn from boxing is how to punch people and how to avoid getting punched Yeah, and how to keep your guard up right? Fully those are important those are really important skills to have. Yeah, fully. But what what I mean is if you're starting from Nothing and you're like okay. I'm gonna you know I'm gonna choose to address my self-defense You have you have a fantasy that you saw a guy on YouTube that was clearly a boxer

Knock up knock out two people in a street fight and you're like that's what I'm gonna do Yeah, yeah. What you actually watched was a guy that was a golden gloves boxer Yeah who is sober knock out two drunk idiots and guess what a golden gloves boxer will do that Have you ever part of the golden gloves boxer? They're freaking Good they're freaking good they're there there they're there they're there they're uh you know like a black belt in boxing yeah and they will knock out to drunk guys all day long yeah yeah it's weird too because he kind of but if one of those if a third drunk guy or even that first drunk guy grabs a hold of the boxer yeah and just and gets him to the ground the boxer's gonna be in trouble yeah that's the way it is we and this isn't like my thoughts this is fact yeah This is like I talked about this in dispute in the field manual is like look There's no conjecture. It's not like I wonder what would happen. No, we know what happens We know what happens when two people fight and and you can watch all the different

Various types of styles going at it and you can watch what happens And sure you can find the rare video where hey this boxer knocks out a couple drunk people or or or even hey the boxer knocker out the jit-gai does that happen yes it can absolutely happen that's why you train boxing too you next question I've not been working out regularly regularly for several years now obviously I'm fat and lazy but I want to get after it so the question is should I go all in level 9 destruction maximum madness or ease into it at level 3 cruising edition respect all right well this there's a couple different Approaches now when I hear this first of all you you don't want to get hurt right and you also don't want to

Make yourself try and do things that are so hard and so painful that You can't do it repeatedly Yeah, so if you just destroy yourself Mac what do you say if you destroy yourself level nine destruction maximum madness But then you can't work out for two more weeks well guess what? What'd you do in the mean? No, let's say realistically you got doms I'm sure right Delayed onset muscle Let's say you did so many burpees that your legs you couldn't sit down without your legs being in pain So now so you take so you take three days four days have you ever had dom so bad that you took four days off?

No. Okay, let's say you take three days off What did you do during those three days? Did you hold the line? Did you stay on the path or were you eating Cheetos? Yeah, yeah on your rest day. That's what you were doing so if you destroy yourself to where you can't stay on the path that's not good you want to stay on the path I think doing something that you can handle or maybe something just beyond what you can handle every single day is more important so going at a level not not cruising level not level three but let's let's find a solid level five where you can you're pushing yourself I write a thousand words a day when I'm writing and do the equivalent of that

right the reason I read because if I I said okay I do tonight I just have to write 5,000 words that's five hours yeah well do I have five hours today no I don't I can squeeze out 52 minutes though and get a thousand words written that I can do so that's that's what I think you need to do you need to get consistent if you bite off more than you chew then you can chew you you might very well choke on it so don't so don't do that so pick something realistic do people say that That's the first time I heard it

So if you bite off more than you can chew you might choke on it Did you make that up or you get that from somewhere? I think I well I just I don't know I think I made it up just good but I'm sure some like like like no this guy said it in 178 yeah, but that's the beauty of it so pick something realistic like something that you can handle and then get after it Then the other thing here is he doesn't talk about his diet at all and that's clearly equally important and you have to change your diet if you're gonna change your life and you're gonna change your health so stop eating sugar stop eating processed foods no more soda and juices and no more Gatorade Just to start with this right or whatever it is whatever that it is that you're doing Whoever asks this question whatever you know what you're doing if you're eating donuts

Wrong don't don't eat donuts anymore stop just stop eating those yeah get rid of that sugar sweet Craveness craving thing. Yeah. And then just keep making your diet cleaner and cleaner as time goes by. Yeah. So That's what I think is there any time that it's good because sometimes I think it's good when people do go like all right man I'm done. Yeah, like I whatever happened they went up the staircase and they they they got all tired and they say you know what? I'm done. Yeah. It's It starts tomorrow. But I think in those cases most of the time, who was it? Who was it that we were talking to? Talking to someone, someone that they, or I was talking to someone, that their first thing

they tried to do, they couldn't do it all. Like, they tried to run three miles, and they were like, you know what? Can't do it. Can't run three miles. It might have been that guy, there's a guy that's losing a bunch of weight on the interwebs. Oh, yeah, that's what it is. I think he's down in Texas. But he's trying to lose a lot of weight and

The first time he went try to go for run didn't happen Didn't happen so he had to just run less He had to just walk actually start slower so yeah, you you start With what you can do but there is a little bit of There is there is I would try I would say this keep this one in the back of your mind There is the whole thing of like you know what I'm changing my life right now you go home you get the garbage can out you bring it into the kitchen you throw away the twinkies you throw away the pop tarts you throw away the

the the the you pour the the crappy soda down the drain and you get on the path and you just don't look back yeah that's a good thing to do too yeah but again if that person's 300 pounds they're not gonna be able to do I mean they're gonna push themselves yeah they could push themselves too hard yeah so you just got to be careful yeah so they and that is It's funny when I'm kind of looking at the question, I'm like, well, obviously you wanna start slow, right? Obviously, but then I don't tell you hear about these guys,

just like how you said, they throw everything away. They were like, I'm a different person right now. I think we're crossing streams here, or I am. There's diet, and then there's like workout. Yeah. Because diet, you can pretty much go cold turkey today. Yeah, it lets, and you may or may not be able to relate to this, but if you go straight extreme on your,

diet like all of a sudden you're hit with these the byproducts of changing your diet especially if you if you'd like like Mountain Dew every single day right and you just all of a sudden boom stop doing much right you'll go through stuff that you might not expect like the craving will we gonna go so hard guy on free in minimal doses of Mountain dude no yeah basically no I'm gonna say no just stop drinking Mountain Dew you don't need it I and I dig and you're gonna go through withdrawals right yeah through caffeine with and sugar withdrawals, you're going to get the, the keto flu, and all those things are going to happen, and it's going to be rough.

But yeah, but don't just say it like that. It's going to be rough, but that's all. Hey, bro, seriously, if you go into that and you experience these types of things, and it's going to apply to everything, by the way, any big change that you make where you have to deprive yourself of these bad things that you've become kind of addicted to or whatever, you're going to go through all kinds of changes. And that goes for a workout too, by the way. Because, like, just the soreness alone. Oh, dang, I wasn't expecting the soreness. Oh, I'm like, tired now. because the workout like was kind of hard. It's like, oh shit, I wasn't expecting that. I was expecting to feel right after my workout how everyone says or whatever. So you're gonna run into all these little things

that no one tells you about. And then it's like, well, I didn't sign up for that little part of it. And then what about that little part? And then you're gonna fall on the diet thing. I think you're wrong. I think the diet thing, I think if you're, I think it's very, I think it's easier, in fact,

to just be like, I'm done. It's not like, okay, you know what? I'm only gonna eat a quarter bag of Cheetos a day from now on. I don't think that works. I think you gotta be like no no no no cheetos not no cheetos in my house But I do think that you could work out so hard that you're so sore that you that you that you say oh man I'm just too like kind of like the jih Tzu question earlier on like you could be what if someone's so sore that they can't do their job Right and they're just sore all day at work well that's not cool

So yeah I think for diet you can you can go cold turkey or actually cold steak or hot And then I think for working out is the one you you you figure out what you can do and You push it a little bit harder, but you don't go level nine maximum destruction madness I think you're wrong respectfully and which part do you think I'm wrong on the diet? I think if you go extreme with your diet I think that it'll work for some people for sure But depending on who you are but I think you're more if you go extreme with the diet you don't like slowly phase out What's you know what's interesting? You know what's interesting?

I don't know if you remember. I read a letter a while back on the podcast about a guy that had read Way of the Warrior Kid and he like fixed his life. Yeah, man. That guy did what you're saying. He just made little changes. Yeah.

He made little changes along the way. So maybe it's personally, it's probably personality. In fact, let's just go ahead and say it's personality. Some people are going to just have to get the damn Cheetos out of their house, all of them. Yeah. And some people say, you know what?

I'm only going to have. this one cup full of Cheetos every day. Yeah. And even and that's okay. But but here's where you gotta be careful. You may lie to yourself. Oh yeah, good time. And you can lie to yourself.

Yeah. You can lie to yourself and be like, ah, you know, I don't really have that that big of a deal today if I just have two cups of Cheetos. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, nine cups of Cheetos later. Yeah, but you still have the neck. You're covered in Cheeto dust.

See and respectfully, I don't like your Cheetos example. Why? Because you're like, I'm gonna allow myself cheats okay don't allow yourself Cheetos that's not how small of a change you're gonna make if you're not gonna eat Cheetos anymore You're not gonna eat cheetos anymore. I'm saying like if you go extreme on your diet let's say you eat but but wouldn't you say what you're saying is Hey, I'm gonna change my diet Okay, I used to eat every day. I'd eat a whole bag of Cheetos Mm-hmm and now I'm only gonna eat one cup of Cheetos from the bag of day. That's improvement it is it is a whole bag of Cheetos. I'm only gonna eat one cup of Cheetos from the bag of day. That's improvement it is it is a And it's small improvement.

And if I could do that, then why is that not okay? Yeah, okay, if you choose to do that, but I, okay, now we're going into the specifics of a certain person's thing. Okay. I would say this. This is more along the lines of what I'm thinking as far as specific examples. If you're going to go, if I'm going to eat one bag of Cheetos, obviously that's not all I'm eating. I'm eating other stuff.

I'm, the small change is I'm not going to eat Cheetos anymore. I'm going to cut out Cheetos. That's it. I'm still not eating that good. You know, I'm going to cut out Cheetos. Or let's say I get, you know, drive-through every day. Three times a day. Okay.

I won't get drive-thru anymore. Or all- That's a big change. Not necessarily, depending on what you get. Going from three drive-thrus a day to zero? How is that not a big change? Yeah, that's a big change, I guess. How is going from like, and there's certain people. Actually, I was talking to someone the other day that had lost 150 pounds, female.

And it was interesting her nutritionist she hired a nutritionist and the nutritionist said okay What are the foods you can't live without? Yeah, and we'll work around those. Yeah, yeah, yeah And what she said was I need cheese burgers and fries So then what she got told was something along the lines of okay, you can have cheese burger and fries On Friday. Yeah, yeah, right? So then instead of you know this this whole thing of I can never eat it now what I'm saying is there are people and I think I'm one of these people where it's like oh if I have cheeseburgers and fries today Well then I might as well just get a mint chocolate chip milkshake with it and if I did that tonight Then you know what tomorrow morning. Hey

After get done training maybe you know that cheeseburger was good yesterday So maybe it's my own personal weakness But for me I'd prefer to be just like on the path Yeah yeah that's why the 80-20 rule and I talked about this in the field manual the 80-20 rule maybe it works for some people and I guess it does work for me But I'd rather just be straight on the program. You know what I mean? Yeah, and then and you know what? You know, Tim Ferriss has that thing where or he's talked about that thing where he goes six days hardcore

Strict and then the seventh day you literally eat whatever you want as much as you can and I haven't tried that I have and it's really really good Yeah, because you feel really really good not only physically but just about the whole I'm on the program and you kind of know and on that on that cheat day you do they call the cheat day you eat whatever you want and you don't feel any guilt at all even when you're on the 80-20 it's like you have to be coming off a real strong week to like be to feel good about the cheeseburger free like cheeseburgers are good too yeah and that's not even really that bad of a cheat day oh really what about cheese fries

fries then you're starting to go into it for sure but the I'm like, you know, a cheat day, cheat day, like, ask Tim Hilt. It'll be like, for real, like a whole thing of donuts. Really? A box of cookie. Yeah, whatever you want. Straight up, whatever you want. That's just disgusting.

Here's the thing, though, with when you, when you start to eat healthy and you, then you try to eat a whole box of donuts, after like one, two, three, maybe six, eight donuts, you're going to be like. Have you ever eaten six donuts? Oh, easy. You've eaten six donuts in one city. Oh, my gosh. You know those, I think they're called Intamin's old-fashioned. They're in there. You know what a old-fashioned donut is?

You mean the little chocolate donuts? No. You know what a old- Full-sized donut. Straight up. They're kind of a little bit bigger, too. You know, okay. You know,

um, Oh, man. You know that. I can't even fathom eating six donuts. Ever since I started talking so much smack about donuts. Yeah. I know. I can't literally can never have one again in my life.

Yeah. No, you're not allowed for sure. 100%. Yeah. Like, not even, yeah.

Even if you were like, if someone was like, Hey, just bite this one. When I was like, when I was like, little kid my parents would buy the chocolate donnettes the hostess chocolate yeah that would have covered in chocolate those things are good yeah yeah can't

even have one of those again nope no no I did the six-day cheat program nope even then you can't I can't do it yeah you know you know what old-fashioned donut is right it's like a just a donut with a hole in it right no oh it's called old-fashioned donuts they're like it's they're kind of glazed and almost like a not they're not crispy but they're kind of hardy are hard and okay on the outside and then they're regular soft donuts on the inside and they have this glaze over them okay so I think it's I forget the name I think it might be entomins but they have old-fashioned donuts where they're not as hard

but they're kind of hard and they're just bigger anyway those are my favorite ones and I used to get chocolate milk and heat up the chocolate milk so it's like hot chocolate and donuts and oh yeah easy money like I'll eat two boxes of those for sure or I used to anymore oh yeah so the point there is on the cheat day you just go yeah no shame but after The thing is you can't just eat donuts four times a day or three times. You just don't feel good like your stomach gets all upset. And the more healthy you eat, the more it's going to be like that. So the longer you're on the path, you start, like, if you ate some donut, like, the other day, we went to the Belmont Park.

And I ate some ice cream, some mint chocolate chip ice cream. Was it good? It was fine. It was good. But, you know, the kids are doing it whatever. I had some loose tracts the other night. Yeah, you eat a big, large, double, you know, whatever. After that, you're like, bro, I don't feel right.

You know, so unless you're just committed to eat it, because I don't know, you don't want to waste it or something like that. You're gonna be like, oh, my cheat, your cheat day's not gonna be that bad, is what I'm saying. Oh, okay. But I don't know. I think I can make it happen.

Depends on what it is, yeah. Yeah, yeah, you could pound some chili fries or something like that. I don't like chili fries. All right, so yeah. Maybe, what's the verdict then? I think just in the middle of the road, not the whole starting light thing.

I said balance. Yeah, so you're saying balance as well. I'll tell you though man if that balance doesn't work for you you can have to step it up You're gonna have to go hardcore I'd give yourself two weeks Two weeks for a balanced approach on the diet side if you can't get your shit under control in two weeks You got to go hardcore you got to get in there with a garbage can throw away the Twinkies throw away everything else that's crap in your fridge and and go hardcore That go and start with a fast too right see now a a fast is awesome a fast is a great way wait wait wait wait Wait, I don't even know that there's that much to expect.

Don't eat for a day. If you never done it before, it's not that big of a deal. There's no little stuff. Don't eat for a day. There's little stuff. Take you from a normal human being. There's little stuff that you, if you're not, if you go in and not prepared for it, then you're like, oh, I don't know. I actually think the more you think about it and prepare for it, the more psychologically hard it is.

Just be like, oh, yeah, you know what? I woke up this morning. I haven't eaten last night. Cool, I'm not going to eat until tonight. every time I... That's a fast. Yeah, so when I plan it like, when I'm like, I'm not gonna eat till this,

then I go through little stuff. But if I just have, if I'm too into work, and I'm only drinking coffee and I forget, I'm like, dang, if I eat and I haven't ate for like, you know, 12 hours, 16 hours, then I'll be like, oh, I'll just go another three. That's my 15, because it's like 15, right? 15 hours is when your body starts to kind of shift

over to like, I think 15. Okay. What I read is cool. So I'll just wait that shower and it's like, cool, done. But if I plan it, That's when, yeah, I don't know. It depends on who you are, man. But that's a good way to kick things off.

Yeah, I agree with a fast. Yeah, I agree. Jump onto the path. Yeah. Just jump on with a fast. Yeah. Hey, go see your doctor or whatever. Do you have to go see a doctor to fast 24 hours?

I think so. I think you should. If you've been, quote-unquote, yeah, yeah. Fat, lazy, you know, especially if you're older or something like that, I think seeing a doctor's always. Does it help to get a personal trainer? Depends on what you mean by help The woman I just talked to

She was like personal trainer and nutritionist hired them both Lost a hundred Whatever pounds So I think she was in excess of 300 pounds Yeah And when I met her She's completely normal right Like you know completely like you wouldn't even

Suspect that she had any weight trouble in her life That's pretty amazing Yeah So Hire the trainer Hire the nutritionist Yeah I think so I think that helps.

I always looked at it like, why would I hire like a trainer or something like that when I can kind of look up that stuff? But here's the thing. I went in with this bias, like, because I kind of had a background in it. So I'm like, why would I? I can just go look at it. But I'm looking it up, but I have all this other knowledge. Maybe same rule. You try it for two weeks.

See if you can keep yourself on the path. And if you can't, you got to bring someone in. Right? Here's what I like. Hire a trainer, but not. Like the kind every day. It's like a once a week trainer who can get you on a little program. Yeah Yeah, you know it's gonna depend on who you are straight up you know who can keep you on Yeah, and that's the biggest of all this and I said this a billion times like you know what you need to do

Yeah, you know what you need to do you know you know what you need to do if you can't get yourself to do it Maybe you need to get someone to help you do it. Yeah, the weird thing is Like nutritionists and stuff you can get nutritionists that could come to you and be like Okay, we're gonna go put you on a low fat diet, you know, which would be really not good seeing you in the wrong direction Yeah, I don't know how many you think there's still nutritionists that are doing that right now? Oh yeah, I know there are I know there are actually They're out there. They're out there so you got to be careful that Check next west last thing that I'm not gonna draw it out but you said You know what you need to do and one time you said imagine

What your day would look like like if you like everything you did Was you did the things that you knew you're supposed to do kind of thing well the the full The full statement is if you wrote down tonight what you were supposed to do tomorrow Yeah, and then you did the things that you were supposed to do Yeah, yeah, yeah imagine how that day would feel and imagine what you'd get done in that day Yeah, and then imagine if you did that every day for a week Yeah, and imagine if you did that every day for a month and then you did it for a year and imagine where your life would be your life would be in a completely different trajectory completely different yeah and that's true with working out that's true

with nutrition that's true with business that's true with education that's true with knowledge it's true with everything everything yeah kind of know what we're supposed to do yeah I thought you were gonna say some people don't know what to do and that could be the case some people they've never worked out before and if you're a person that's never worked out before you probably need to bring someone into the game that's gonna help show you how to work out if you've never done any reading about eating and you have no idea what's going to be good for you, you're probably a person that might need to bring someone into the game to help you get over that.

Yeah, and it still completely goes with exactly what you said. It's like you know what to do and even to help that. You know what not to do. Like when you're about to make a decision, I'm going to do this or not do this, like you know which one is you should or shouldn't do. So let's say I don't know anything about working out, but I know I have to get in shape. We all know, you know when we got to get in shape. So then you know you got to hire somebody.

You know you got to do something. You know that you shouldn't just be like, oh, well, I'm not going to do it. I don't know. I'm not going to do it. Things to do tomorrow. Get a trainer. Yeah.

Join a gym. Get a trainer. Yeah. I don't know what to do. Okay, this is what you can do. Find out what to do. There you go. Exactly.

In that case. So, yeah, it makes sense. Sometimes when you put things and just say stuff, just put it on the table. It just starts to make sense. Next question. I'm a veteran of the infantry. And when I took over a fire team for the first time,

For the first time, I made the mistake of drawing hard lines in the sand. This immediately alienated members of that team that had been together for some time. I did not make that mistake again, and I definitely learned from my experience. So, clearly there's not a question there. Yeah. And I forget pulling this out from, I get a lot of emails and messages and all that. But I thought it was a good point to bring up to say, You know this idea of drawing hard lines in the sand and what that does to your leadership position

It's it's a it's a difficult it's usually not a good thing to do if you draw a lot hard lines in the sand And eventually you realize that they're either unrealistic or people can't maintain them you've set yourself up for failure What is that exactly like drawing? So it's like no matter what We will not Gotcha blah blah blah Yeah there's the line no matter what that we will We will win every single road marks that we do as a fire team in this while we're while we're here on this training thing Okay, well, guess what? That's a that's hard

There's other there's some other fire teams that are also want to win and and so you've drawn a hard line to send that's not really a good example A good example. It's like no matter what we're gonna muster every morning at 4.30 in the morning No matter what And You know then the guys are out on patrol until 238 in the morning And now the next morning you're good no matter what I said no matter what well it's it's not good for them

It's unrealistic So you drew a hard line in the sand and now you got to back it down So and all you have to do is soften the statement a little bit Hey guys to the best of our ability if we can we're gonna get here every morning at 430 for muster There's a little there's a little room to play there right and that's that's that's a that's fine so again I I there's there's not a lot of there's not a question here but one of the reasons I think that that I that I wanted to talk about it was because I think people look at me yeah and even hear me on a peripheral level and they think oh I bet chocolate just laid down the

hard lines sure it's my way or the highway right yeah and and the the the opposite is actually true and the reason that I Came to that conclusion Was because I worked for leaders like that and I hated working for leaders like that So I tried to never be a leader like that And there's a dichotomy Right there's a huge dichotomy Because this doesn't mean that you're not driving and pushing this doesn't mean that you're not saying hey, we're gonna be the best

Whatever we're to be the best whatever we're to be the best task unit here doesn't mean you're not saying hey look we're not gonna rest until we've done what we're supposed to do doesn't mean that mm-hmm but man you gotta find that balance yeah it does feel like that with you that you're like it feels like that but when you're one I mean it my experience obviously is on we're under under no like extreme circumstances right but just like just like the simple stuff like it really does seem like you wake up at 4.30 in the morning every single morning do or die well that that I

I did that I do unless like there's sometimes where I get home at like I remember a little while ago I got home at one o'clock or two o'clock in the morning and that's basically my cutoff zone if I'm getting less than four and a half hours of sleep then I'll be like oh yeah and I'll wake up and I've been like hey I only got two and a half hours of sleep last night that's not enough I'm going back to bed right that's and that's what I mean where I've tweeted that out before yeah I'm too tired yeah yeah I get yeah that's that's what I mean Yeah, so it's like when when that happens it almost like he catches you off guard, you know When you when you when you did that I mean obviously not like oh Jockels died is strict it's not that feeling at all it's just kind of like oh dang You do have that flexibility when you know when it's the correct thing kind of thing Yeah, you have to yeah you're not a slave to your Rigidity well what you're saying is I don't draw hard lines in the sand Taking it back to the quest

Yes, exactly right But it's real easy to go down the slippery slope of like, well, I you know I actually didn't eat real good yesterday, so I probably need some more sleep to recover today. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Really? Yeah, well, it's a rest day, so I might as well turn on the TV. Oh, you know what it would be good with TVs, maybe some popcorn. Oh, you know, it would be good with some popcorn, maybe some cheese sticks and some M&Ms.

It's a rest day, right? Yeah, yeah. It's slippery. The wrong path. Slippery that is what I'm saying I guess that I guess the opposite of the of the of the of the of the path is the slippery slope Exactly right next question. Hi scenario That's actually a legit way to think of it too. Yeah if it's a legit way to think of things if you're on the path when you know what the path is as we talked about with Tim Ferriss if you're on the path Which you know well when you step off the path it's a slippery slope

You know, big time. Off the path is a slippery, slippery, slippery slope. Yeah. What did you just say? The popcorn can lead to cheat sticks, can lead to M&Ms. Yeah. That's the slippery slope right there. Yeah.

And sometimes you slip so hard that you just plunge deep off the path. Yeah. Fall off the wagon land hard. All right. Scenario. My team leader's boss came to me and asked my opinion on my horrible team leader. My boss's boss. one of my opinion.

So what do I do? Praise him to make the team look good and maintain my relationship with the team leader or tactfully tell the truth and build a relationship with the boss, with my boss's boss.

That's a good question, isn't it? I think so. And it's a really tough position to be in. Yeah. Because you have to be careful and you have to be balanced. And there's a couple things to think about. First of all, no one likes rats.

Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. No one likes rats. But at the same time, You kind of also have to think about what's best for the team on top of and kind of the opposite of no one likes rats is no one likes brown nosers But at the same time you have to build relationships up and down the chain of command and One of the toughest things about this and what you have to be so careful about is that you don't know what kind of relationship

The boss and the team leader have you don't know for on one end of the spectrum they could be friends So if you say something bad about him that's going right back to the team leader and you're in you're you're you're gonna have a hard time you're a much worse position also they could be enemies and supporting the team lead to the boss could actually make you look stupid right make you make you make you look bad and and it's important to say here is it the optics of like I don't want to look bad is that what I'm talking about because that's what I just said Like it'll make you look bad. It'll make you look stupid

The reason that you're trying to look good is because you want to do a good job because you want the team because you want the mission to succeed That that's what's important And you don't care. I don't care if I have to eat crow. I don't care if so so I don't mind looking bad if it's for a good reason I don't mind my ego taking a ding if it's for the right reason But this could actually hurt the way I do my job Mm-hmm because now my boss My boss, sorry, my boss's boss thinks I'm kind of an idiot. And so that means when promote comes time for promotion, even though I might be the best guy I'm not getting promoted because I was the guy that was too blind to see that my team leader was an idiot. Yeah So I would be very careful and fairly neutral in what I said especially to start with, right? So, you know, if the boss says, hey, how's that team leader doing?

My response be like, oh, you know what? We get the job done. There's that's so non-committal right? Mm-hmm. Well, what about the team leader? Is he is he a good leader? I think he's I think he's got a pretty good hold of what's going on, right? So that's that's there's room to interpret that in any direction really. Yeah.

I think he's got a pretty good hold or I think he's getting a hold of what's going on or another one would be well, hey, how's your team leader? I think our performance kind of shows where we're at right so you're not you're not given away and those are those are like I said those are subtle those are very open things that you could respond to and and I think the more your boss probes or the start the more the team boss team leaders boss is probes the more you could open up a little bit still with caution but as you see what the boss's opinion is you could open up a little bit more and share a little bit more the truth very tactfully or if or you could go in the other direction right if he says oh you know

that's my best guy and I've known bill forever yeah bills I brought him here and Bill's gonna be he's going places so are you gonna derail that guy you you can but you're probably going to derail yourself too yeah because that guy has a legitimate relationship with him so that's a tough situation and and I would say the best thing to do in this situation is remain as neutral as possible and again you know what there's there's someone that's listening or to this right now that's going all jock was kind of a jock was kind of a wimp and if I was there I'd just tell the truth okay so let's let's talk about that let's talk about what happens because I've been in that situation more times than I

can count where my boss was kind of an idiot and I get all asked by his boss hey how's this guy doing so let's say you rat him out well does that mean that the boss gets fired immediately? No. It just means that your team is less respected. It means that you get less support. It means, and if you do get ratted out, by the way, where do you end up now? You end up in a bad situation where your boss knows that you ratted him out to his boss.

You're hated. Yeah. You're hated. So I want to win. Let's go back to that point. I want to win. So does it help me win if I rat? out my boss or if I route out my team leader to my boss does it help me win it could

It could if your boss happens to be completely aligned with what you're thinking he also happens to have a replacement ready That's more squared away that's another thing you get rid of one bad team leader now you get a new but team leader how do you know him? Who's who is that person where they come from the devil's what is that saying the devil you know is better than the devil that you don't know So if I have a team leader that's not doing a good job, whose fault is that? Yeah I can help my team leader Especially if my team leader's weak I can help them become strong I can help teach them tactfully not stepping on their toes

I would rather rather than wrap my team leader out up the chain of command I would rather fix my team leader I would rather help my team leader become better Support them and by the way when you do support your team leader and they be become better and now they do come up for a promotion what do they know in the back of their mind They know that you helped them they knew know that you got them there guess who's getting promoted now You are now. Now why am I so concerned about getting promoted is because I want to want to outdo everyone else? No, that's not why Because you want to win because I want to win. I want the team to win and if I thought that you echo would do a better job if you became team leader instead of me I'd be like hey I appreciate it but echo would do a better job than me he should be the team leader

So and and also if you're real this is what happens if I'm really a person this this this is what I'm getting at If I'm really a person that really wants to get promoted and that's my main goal I want to get promoted that's my goal what do I do with the team leader? I throw him under the bus So that's the person that we all hate The person that rats out the team leader that that says oh that guy's doing a terrible job I do much better job and gets that guy fired and now I get promoted And what do we all think of them? We all think that guy is a turd.

Now, as opposed to, there's someone that says, you know what, our team leader's weak needs help, needs support. I'm going to help him. I'm going to support him. I'm going to do the best I can.

Wait, are you saying to tell the boss this or just have that attitude? Like, I'm not going to, I'm not going to throw him under the bus. Now, if we have a guy that's horrible, that's tyrannical, that does a horrible job,

that abuses people, then we get to a situation where you say, You know what boss? There's some problems. So if you have that one, which it doesn't really well this guy says horrible team leader So if this is a horrible team leader that's irredeemable Irredeemable qualities and it's negatively affecting the team because he kind of makes it sound like make the team look good So there's there's there's still a possibility that the team is doing okay

Yeah, even though they have a horrible leader because they got such good troops I would see that sometimes a platoon has a bad leader But there's great guys in there and the The platoon leader is smart enough just to be like, okay, I'm gonna let them kind of run with it. They'll be successful. So my goal usually is to help the person above me in the chain. Well, it's always to help the person above me in the chain of command. Can you get to a situation where someone is so bad that it's negatively affecting the whole team and you can't win because of their position? Yes, well, then you need to step up and do something about it and say something about it.

Do it tactfully. Do it slowly. Don't over commit. your statements early on because if you do you might say something that is out of line Mm-hmm so that's it's a tricky situation there's no definitive answer you have to weigh these things out yeah generally if you can help someone win you're gonna win generally if you help someone win you're gonna win if it's so bad that they're just bringing down the whole team and you cannot win with them in that position you might need to say something

Yeah, especially if everyone on the team kind of feels the same way. It's going to be a little bit easier to be like, hey, you know, and be straightly. Yeah, but even if everyone with, if we, if we have the gang mentality, right, like, hey, man, the boss sucks. You know what? He's, team leader's horrible. He doesn't know what he's doing. Hey, guys, you know what? We could sit here complain about it or we could actually try and, like, make him a better leader. Yeah, yeah. What do you guys say, think of that? And then, because, hey, we could try and get a replacement for him, but at least he listens to us right now. Yeah. Or whatever, you know, at least he, at least he understands the job. Hey, let's try and, let's try and prop him up. Let's try and get, well, you know what, let's get rid of him. But let's get rid of him by teaching him a lot so he gets educated so he can move on and get promoted. And then we'll have a good relationship with him. Yeah. And then the team will get more support.

And then we can do our mission better. Yeah. Yeah. I guess he kind of got to understand what makes them a quote unquote horrible leader, right? For sure. For sure. So like, what if I don't like him because I don't like his tie? I don't know.

I don't like his hairdo. You know, I just don't like him. We don't we don't come from the same side of the tracks. I don't know whatever thing One of the things that would be like if the guy's arrogant Yeah, the guy's arrogant well how are we gonna bring him down? Yeah, how we gonna bring well how we not not bring him down from his job But how are we gonna bring down his ego? Yeah, how we gonna mellow him out? You know and that could be a long project Yeah, that could be a long project

Yeah, so just like how you said is like it is it damaging the performance kind of thing? Yes, yes That's the most important thing is that what is our performance like? Yeah. Can we bring this guy around? Good question. I'm sorry there's no definitive answer, but at the same time there's So leadership is is an art. Yeah and why did the it's an art and science, but it's an art sure this is a case where the artistic part is going to be more important. Yeah, yeah, yeah The dichotomy art and science I remember on blood sport how he called martial arts more He called it martial science. The guy, what is his name?

Sensei Tanaka. Come on, bro. Bloodsport. Van Dam. Yeah, no, I know what the movie is. Yeah, yeah, he called it Marshall Science. I'm not familiar with that, too familiar. Even as a kid, I thought those movies were really cheesy. Yeah, it was kind of cheesy.

Like, so, like, a lot of MMA, well, I guess from my age, MMA, guys, you know, I was into Bloodsport, you know? Yeah. Even when I was a kid, I wasn't thinking Bloodsport was like, legit. I don't know why I thought it was I got the time I thought Rocky

I thought Rocky was more legit Yeah yeah Rock was dope Yeah I thought I thought that Rocky was more legit Than Bloodsport for me Bloodsport seemed fake Yeah

Yeah I guess Right It just seemed extreme I guess Because plus Plus I think with Bloodsport The rumors circulated That that guy was real Like that was real

You know And so you're like Oh sure it's a movie cool Made it fun But it was real in your life Yeah, I I I yeah Again, I I wouldn't say I hated blood sport But like I haven't seen it enough to know that the guy referred to martial arts as martial science

That was early on early in the movie when Van Dam's teacher You know it's your typical movie right there's a there's a a guy He's getting beat down or whatever he goes through his training process There's a there's a montage Like in a team war team America world police there's a montage Training montage and then he comes back and wins There's there's like most of your fight movies Yeah you know montage yeah he gets beat down early

You know he trains he becomes awesome but then there's the arch enemy who's trained too Yeah, but still a bully and he has to beat him same thing with karate kid but you're leaving out the montage part Yeah, the training montage yeah which is very important You're the best around now that's credit kid you ever seen the movie never back down? No, okay so you wouldn't you'll never watch this movie it's it's it's it's it's m mary right it's i remember when it came out yeah yeah yeah but it's basically karate kid it's it's literally like karate kid but just mhm a little bit more cheesy maybe a lot more than it i thought it was good though i enjoyed it i watched it more than you learn from like a master jihitsu guy or something yeah Brazilian guy who is played by an african guy the guy on

you remember gladiator you know gladiator right russell crow yeah yeah the black guy in there the African guy vaguely yeah he um you know the one yeah his main friend he's the guy but he's the Brazilian guy okay it doesn't match because he doesn't have a Brazilian accent I was gonna say how's his Portuguese accent no I still African but nonetheless you know on paper it might seem cool but it came out kind of cheesy I liked it though you know they over emphasize like all the things like he goes to the party and the party's just crazy yeah anyway yeah look into it nonetheless yes science and art I dig it You kind of have to I mean back the question yet have to kind of wonder why the boss is asking your opinion too is it just a general

Probe like hey how you guys doing how's the boss doing kind of like that or is it we have some concerns about your team leader What up you know kind of thing yeah and even that you got to be careful yeah because they could lead you down that path Maybe maybe they're probing you yeah maybe the team leader said hey you know what I don't trust this guy Yeah he's ready he says about me right and then you go in and you go hey I've heard some bad things about this guy what do you think of him yeah tell you what you're right that guy's a turd yeah a turd with ears uh yeah you guys used to say that yeah a lot of team guys say turd yeah team thing i think i think it came from buds at some point yeah it was it was you'd get called turds yeah quite a bit and then a person that was kind of maybe just just not a very good

individual would be a turd with ears yeah never heard that one yeah you know why they say Do do do boy same thing do do do do boy yeah but obviously not in any kind of Discipline setting we got one more one more question yes next question last question Jocco I've been disciplined working hard and staying focused But I've hit a a run of bad luck and I can't seem to get a break Well first of all you are lucky because if you're kids of of working hard then that's a blessing that's luck because there's people all over the world that don't have the ability for any number of reasons many of those reasons being just bad luck

that they can't work so right out of the gate you're lucky that you can get up tomorrow and you can go to work now you say you can't get a break and maybe you're getting unlucky with your career or your personal life or your business so what are you going to do are you going to give up are you going to surrender are you going to assume that because you didn't catch a break today there's no way you'll catch one tomorrow or next week or next year are you going to leave it all the chance or are you going to do everything in your power to force luck your way to create opportunity to to shift the hands of fate and even then if the break never comes even if you roll across the finish line of life bruised and bloodied and empty-handed from the fight.

At least you know, you know that you went after it as hard as you could. And you gave life everything you had. And you know in the end, you might still be unlucky. That could happen. But I would much rather be an unlucky soul. That fought until the end and died with my sword in my hand Then an unlucky soul that submitted Bowed down gave up and surrendered

So stop waiting to get lucky stop waiting for a big break instead be thankful Truly thankful for what you do have and go out there and fight and battle and brawl to make your own luck and I think that's all I've got for tonight so echo yes speaking of fighting hard sure is there anything you know about that can help us stay in the fight continue fighting hard check sure first thing you need to do is take care of your body habitus I use that word wrong but body habitus is like your like your habitat on your body anyway take care of your body is what I meant including but not limited to your joints

a lot more important than I thought from the beginning or at in the beginning so how you do that is super cruel oil jaco has super cruel oil jaco has krill oil called super cruel oil another supplement called joint warfare these are good for your joints don't neglect them that's how you stay in the fight straight out get them at origin main.com also you want to increase your capacity and capability in the fight physically mentally you take new product called discipline it's called discipline It's not discipline itself. It's called discipline. Anyways, cognitive and physical enhancer.

Force multiplier. Mental plus physical. The sum is greater than the parts. Anyway, origin, mane.com. That's where you get them. Really good. They also have geese and rash guards there at Origin Maine. And they are all made in America.

I don't know if you know this. It's a big deal. He does good work over there. From the dirt to the shirt. Yeah. Cotton is even grown in America. And that's very important. See what I did there.

Yeah, geese, rash guards, compression gear, pants, compression pants, spats. All there. Also, or just speaking of origin, we have an immersion camp, Jiu-Jitsu immersion camp. All levels of Jiu-Jitsu are welcome to this, by the way. What about kids? Kids welcome to that one? I don't think so.

Yeah, because I don't think they have the capacity for kids there at the camp. Shoot, they were asking me that. Interesting. Nonetheless, all levels, even if you don't have any jiu-jitsu at all. In fact, last time there was a group who didn't have, I think it was like some didn't have any jiu-suitzs. It just came, we went on the, like, you know, like some of the stuff you learn, if you don't have any jutsu-s, it's like, okay, that's not going to fit into my knowledge because you have no knowledge. So it's like, I don't understand this quite yet. We did like the fundamentals class for him.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and even during Like while it was going on I had a group on the site of like a good like 12 people And we're just doing just the basic No jih Tzu No J-J-J-2 Yeah, for sure all levels and by the way if you're a beginner, yeah, that's cool But also if you're good you'll also get some awesome training there Yeah, everybody great guys there yeah

Huge good spot, yeah, it's all but it's up in Maine Echo Lake Are we on Echo Lake? Oh yeah Yeah Echo Lake Layers Echo's got his own lake

Sure Echo Park, Echo Lake Dang Nonetheless yeah So yeah OriginMaine.com You can look and see all that stuff And you know

If you want something Get something If you want to come to the emergency camp Come to the immersion camp I'll be there Jock are you going Yeah I am

You're so mad last time You couldn't do that Your rib Your rib right My rib was Jack This year it won't be jacked. No, no, no, no. It's all good, brother.

You're the man. Either way. Also, for fitness gear, you want to vary up your workout, you want to implement new movements? Cettlebells? Do you do kettlebells? I know joccan you do kettlebells.

I know that. But that's the question. Yeah, you do. Mike Granchie, right? Mike, this guy, you know, he's a brown belt or black belt, I forget, up in Carlsbad area. Anyway, I've known him for a long time.

I used to work with his sister. I don't even know if he remembers that. But so watching, you know who you know who Jeff Clark is? Yeah. Yeah, so he's under him. He hit me up. He's like, hey, I want to get into kettlebells now. He's like, I'm looking at the on it ones or whatever.

You know, asking the advice, here's the thing. I'm not an expert on the kettlebells, but I do know this. Don't get nuts with them. But don't go too light either, though. I bought a kettlebell for my daughter. She's five now. So it's just, it looks cool. It's like one of the little...

24 kilograms. No. No, man Anyway, the smallest one But when I pick that up I'm like no matter what fitness level I'm at, this isn't gonna do much for me So don't go too light is what I'm saying.

Yeah, yeah Nonetheless, get them from Onit, go onit.com slash jocco There's some good stuff. A lot of options there. You think you're stuck in a boring Wop Jocko workout. Super hard, but boring.

You're gonna fall off that way again. Maybe, I don't know, depends on who you are. But if you want to vary it up, go on it.com slash jaco. We'll get some, there's some good finish here. Also, when you're getting any of the books that we review on this podcast, I got them organized for you on jocco podcast.com.

Click on the top, books, book section. Think specifically it says books from Jockle podcast. Got them organized by episode, including Rob Jones Journey's journal, by the way. Pretty much anything that we're reading, we'll put it on there for access. easy access and it happens to support takes you to Amazon boom get your book two day delivery one day delivery eight hour delivery sometimes and you know if you're gonna do other shopping continue on do you be you also subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already iTunes Stitcher Google Play a Spotify Stitcher I already said

Yeah, yeah. Everywhere. Yeah, everywhere. Whatever you listen to podcasts on, subscribe. Yeah. Seems obvious, right? Also, YouTube, if you are interested in the video version of this podcast, you want to see what Jocko looks like, if you care?

You want to see what I look like if you care? Which may be a little bit more of a thing because I, like, apparently I don't sound how I look. I still get that, by the way. Yeah. No, I just talked to a guy about it the other day. Yeah. Yesterday.

That'll never go away, huh? Nope. Until everyone has seen me. No one sees me Anyway If you're interested in that YouTube video version of this podcast Also excerpts

Take little chunks Out of the podcast and post them So you can share them So they don't have to listen to two and a half Three hours of a whole podcast To get one lesson One specific lesson That's on the YouTube channel

And you just made a new video I did you I'm making more videos now Time is running out Time is running out That was an important one You know The you know

So I'll choose little excerpts or whatever to be like you know what this one to me hit harder this little message that you said and that one was because it is one of those ones because you know how the old saying where it's like yeah we know we know we have a limited time on this earth but we don't act like hit you know that you know that whole thing and really when you think about that that's more true than I think most people realize and you know that's why people go through like midlife crisis right you know they hit a certain age and they're like oh my ear pierce and get a corvette yeah I got to get it back I don't know

You know, it's that scrambling situation, you know. You're trying to scramble to get more in. But, you know, there's going to come in time you can't do that. There's a little old school footage in there in that video. Yeah. Two. If you want to see me when I was, I don't know, like 13 or 14. Sure.

Maybe, yeah, it was probably 14. I'm going to guess 14. Bronson's children. Bronson's children. What's that? Bronson's children, that was straight up it. Band practice right yeah well you know somebody else it would be hard to identify fully Yeah the actual because we had a bunch of different names one of the names of the band was rage of discipline

Rage of this rage of discipline wait it was never disciples of discipline no It was something else okay rage of this one it was rage of discipline you know and it was it was struggle it was lock and load which is really militaristic for someone that wasn't in the military to be like My band's called Lock and Load. I realize how cheesy that is now. No, that's pretty dope, actually. Well, I don't know. But anyways.

Rage of Discipline's real military-ish. See, Brad, you were you even before. Yeah, no. That's what the guy you got the video footage from Elgin James, when he comes on the podcast, he's like, I'm going to tell people. I actually just, spoiler alert because he's like, I can't wait to tell everyone that you had a band called

Rage of Discipline when you were 14 years old. I know, yeah. And I was kind of laughing about that. Yeah, yeah, there it is. You're in the making from the beginning. Yeah, yeah, I guess you could say that, but you know, also I also look back and think well, man, I did some dumb stuff when I was a kid. Yeah, well, you didn't get a handle on the discipline till later, but you know, the seed was there. You know, like a little rattlesnake? You know how they say they're the most dangerous because they can't control the venom? They don't have the discipline. Oh, but they want the discipline. That's what I think. That's what I was like, a little rattlesnake. Yes. Interesting. Right. Nonetheless, you can see these videos on YouTube. Well, the video is a cool video, yeah. Thanks, Jocko. Good job, Echo Charles.

Thanks. Try to do more videos. Also, Jocko is a store. It's called Jocko Store. This is where you can get. Discipline equals freedom. Shirts. There's that word again, discipline.

You know, iconic one. Also, Rash guards on there. Women's stuff on their, hoodies on there. Beanie's, here's the thing. Beanie's a little bit more of a process. But they're being approved and you know there's gonna be some benies on there new shirt is out just in time for summer Good job I'm just

Hey man they're there you know they'll need them down in Australia in New Zealand Yeah for the summertime down there yeah and the southern hemisphere yeah in Hawaii New you're wearing a new shirt today that's right is this out back to the book it's out it's out it's available Thing is I didn't say anything I just kind of snuck it on there so some people got it so it's live It's live been live for a day Back to the book. Back to the book.

It's actually good. The front of it has a book. On the back has all the titles that you've reviewed. It's a good one. Anyway, you want to see what that looks like? jocco store.com. If you want something, get something. It's a good way to support.

Also, psychological warfare. If you don't know what that is, it's an album with tracks that each track is engineered. It's not music tracks. Jocco tracks. engineered to help you through any moment of weakness that you may stumble upon or that might stumble upon you Actually you shouldn't say stumble upon you because that kind of gives the ownership to like oh it happens to me you know I mean If you hit weakness you hit the weakness like you you stumbled on the weakness

You can't blame the weakness you blame you see what I'm saying check so you need moment of weakness that you happen to stumble upon There's a track for that procrastination waking up early the diet stuff falling off the diet wagon you want to eat some donuts because they're free at work it's wasteful if you don't eat them's disrespectful to the person who bought them and you're you're going to eat them that's weak stay on the path and if you need a little spot psychological warfare you can get it on iTunes Amazon music various wherever you can purchase MP3s boom get it from their psychological warfare it's a good one good way to support too by the way Good way of support.

Also, if you need some more support, you can get Jocko White Tea. And I've got some bad news and good news. Bad news, they've started testing for Jocka White Tea. So they started testing, they're worried. You know, they see guys just dominating and they're thinking they're probably on Jocka White Tea. The good thing, that's the bad news. Good news is, doesn't matter. Can't test for it.

All natural. It's all natural. No one can believe that it fully now. natural substance can can raise any human beings deadlift to eight thousand pound minimum but there it is it is factual factual it books all right books you can get some books weigh the warrior kid this is the book for kids the book for kids see the feedback go on go on social media go on Twitter go on Facebook you boha and see kids Studying see kids doing pull-ups see kids doing jiu-jitsu see kids getting after it

That'll tell you right there So many parents have said I can't believe my kid now wants to study As they post little pictures of kids making math flash cards Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I'm talking about Yeah, imagine if you get your kid to do math flash cards voluntarily Boom, so that's what I'm talking about and now there's way the warrior kid to mark's mission in this book Uncle Jake teaches young Mark and he really teaches the rest of us how to control his temper How to work hard how to be frugal and smart with money. There's a little

Entrepreneurial activity in the book He also learns how to take care of his gear. He learns how to save his money. He learns how to deal with insults and with verbal abuse and he learns to overcome his fear of failure That's a lot to learn in one book and Yeah, but it's there The lessons are there And it's done in a simple, clear way That only Uncle Jake knows how to do And speaking of entrepreneurial

Warrior kids, don't forget about Aiden Young Aiden, he's only 12 years old But he has a business He's making soap from goat milk From goats on his farm And he's not just making any soap He's making good soap, he's making Jocko soap You can order it

Irish irish oaks ranch.com and the motto which I thought of not given aiden any credit for this He didn't think of this motto I thought of the motto the motto is stay clean So yeah get yourself some jaco soap you can also get a book called the discipline equals freedom field manual and that's another book the feedback is awesome The feedback is awesome people that get that book and They get on the path they get strong healthier smarter more disciplined they're getting better and they live a better life and that's awesome to hear so if you or someone you know needs to know how to get on the path and stay on the bath path then the field manual is for them and it'll help

them do just that and for the audio version it's not on audible because then you can't have an album with tracks the audio version is on iTunes Amazon music Google Play other MP3 platforms So if you want the audio version get that also obviously There's a book called extreme ownership it is Combat Leadership these are the lessons that we learned in combat translated into leadership principles for business and life and you know what? Still on the Amazon charts right now is number 17 on all Amazon charts for Books read or something like that. So yeah, you got to dig that still selling and and and also

Announcement just went over a million copies sold Yeah, which is pretty legit. So thanks everyone for for for for buying some books some copies of the books and by the way You don't sell a million copies of a books of a book on just hype and and and we didn't do it through paid advertising Which I don't even know if you could do it through paid advertising the book sells because the word of mouth so everyone that listens this podcast buys the book spreads the word gets it for other people you're the reason that that book is selling so well still so thank you all for spreading the word telling people get it for them get it for their team up and down the chain of command extreme ownership pick it up furthermore echelon front that's my leadership and management consulting

company we solve problems through leadership that's what we do and that is how all Problems get solved through leadership. So it's me, it's Laif Babin, it's J.P. Denell, it's Dave Burke. You can email info at echelonfront.com or you can go to the website echelonfront.com. And of course, we are approaching the muster. This is the most dynamic leadership conference ever of all time. Tickets are selling we've already kind of expanded the floor in the location that we have in DC as much as we can to accommodate more people But I'm telling you it's gonna sell out

We're only doing two musters this year One is in Washington DC May 17th and 18th and one is in San Francisco October 17th and 18th So come learn hang out get your pragmatic leadership skills and also it's important to know that there's no green room there's no backstage we'll be there hanging out answering questions talking eating working out and hanging out with everyone that shows up so join us there you can register at extreme ownership dot com and also on extreme ownership dot com there's a document that we put together so some people they want to come to the conference they need to run it up their chain of command and they kind of say

what should I say up my chain of command I want my chain of command to pay for it, which is awesome. And the chain of command should pay for it, because they're going to get back a much better leader in their organization. But we put a document on there. You can, you can click on the link. The little, what's that? The little link.

I guess it's called the link. Sure. It's called creating leaders at every level. And that's also on Extreme Ownership.com. We'll see you there. We'll see at the muster. And until we do see you at the muster, you can find us interacting and conversing and cruising

on the interwebs on Twitter on Instagram and on that Fushtabohaki Echo is at Echo Charles And I am at Jocka Willink and thanks To those of you out there in uniform around the world on foreign lands In the sky over our heads

And on and under The high seas protecting us from the evil of the world. Thank you and thanks to police and law enforcement To the firefighters and paramedics and all of you first responders. Thanks for taking care of us and our families when we need it most and to everyone else out there The nurses and the doctors working all hours to heal us and the teachers trying to educate our youth and the guys hanging dry wall and and pouring concrete and roughing in plumbing and electrical and the farmers growing crops and the factory workers building products and the fishermen and the lobstaman and the longshoremen and the bankers and the advisors and the salespeople and the waitresses and the cooks and the dishwashers to all the men and women across the land and every job and every capacity that show up every day Thanks for listening to us and thanks for doing your job and doing it well and doing it with pride and thanks for working hard to make your own luck and to make your part of the world a better place by going out there and getting after it and so until next time this is echo and jaco

Out.