Jocko Podcast - 123: A Fight Through Darkness with Marine Corporal, Jake Schick

Episode Date: April 18, 2018

0:00:00 - Opening 0:04:19 - Jake Schick. Early Days. 1:15:20 - Deployment. 1:45:26 - Jake gets wounded. 2:14:36 - Recovery. 3:12:27 - Giving back. 3:44:58 - Final Thoughts and take-aways. 3:52:19 - Support: JockoStore stuff, Super Krill Oil and Joint Warfare and Discipline Pre-Mission, THE MUSTER 005 in DC. Origin Brand Apparel and Jocko Gi, with Jocko White Tea,  Onnit Fitness stuff, and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes). Extreme Ownership (book), Way of The Warrior Kid 2: Marc's Mission, The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual, and Jocko Soap. 4:15:19 - Closing Gratitude.  Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 123 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. Now, this podcast is the third in a series of podcasts that I've done. And if you haven't listened to podcasts number 121 and 122, then go back and listen to those episodes before you listen to this one. The first of those podcasts, number 121, tells the story of Chesty Puller, the iconic and heroic Marine Corps legend that fought in five wars, was awarded five Navy crosses, the most of any servicemen ever. He retired as a three-star general after rising through the ranks from private podcast 122.

tells a much different story. It tells the story of Chesty Puller's son, Lewis Puller Jr., who also joined the Marine Corps, who fought in Vietnam, who was horrifically wounded and continued to fight against pain and against loss and against depression and addiction when he returned home from war. And in the end, he lost that battle. after falling back into the downward spiral of alcohol and prescription painkillers he became another statistic of the most dreadful kind he turned the gun on himself and took his own life and as I said at the beginning of this series I was seriously questioning whether or not I could do this podcast

if I had the wherewithal to gut through the pain of that story. And more important, if it was the right thing to do, if it was the right thing to bring this story to light, because clearly the story does not have a happy ending. And I wondered if there was any good at all to be found in it. But I also know that darkness left unchecked and ignored is darkness that grows. And if we do not learn from the past, then we know we are condemned to repeat it.

There was one more compelling thing that allowed me to go forward in producing this series of podcasts about a year ago. I think I was in Texas and I was speaking at the Chris Kyle Memorial Benefit. Then I met someone there. He was a Marine. His uncle was a Marine. His grandfather was a Marine. and he had been severely wounded in Iraq and as I learned more about him I came to understand the hell he had been through as much more than just physical like many veterans the psychological wounds were also severe but he had fought against the pain fought against the loss fought the fight that so many other veterans fight and he had come out the other side stronger and better and had dead dedicated his life to helping other veterans win that fight.

His name is Jacob Schick, and it is an honor to have him on the podcast with us here tonight. Jake, welcome to the show, brother. Thanks for having me, bro. Thanks for coming on, man. You bet. I'm here to help. Well, I know you help a lot of people, and I want to hopefully get you out there reaching even more people. Let's do it. You, you, when I first met you, was just talking to you, I don't know, I probably spent

a couple hours at some random bar in a hotel somewhere in Texas. Yeah, over there in the stockyards. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I was like, man, and I told you then, I said, you've got to come get on my podcast. But when I was, like I said, when I was doing, when I was reading these books, I was saying to myself, I got to have, I got to show the other side, man.

I got to show that you can get out of this. you get through it and there's no better example of that than you and the fight that you've been through so let's get into it man let's start let's start at the beginning let's start with young jake oh lord did i blocked out most much all we're talking about louisiana bossier city is that how you say back in the day but now that was that was that was until you what 12 yeah 8 10 yeah it's bozier city bozier city yeah but you could depending on what part of louisiana you're from pronounce it like that. The other way?

The wrong way? No, they're both right. And both sides of Louisiana, we'll tell you that too. Nice. Yeah. But yeah, I went to Texas when I was about 12 and moved in with my mom. So I went from like a structured, disciplined home to the antithesis of that, which caught up to me pretty quick.

Yeah. Yeah. And so what did you, now your grandfather was in the Marine Corps? Yeah, grandfather served World War II, fought on Ewo, and survived. Dang. And was, you know, obviously the driving factor of my interest of being a Marine. And because I was really close to my grandmother growing up. And my grandfather passed away fairly young in his 50s.

And, you know, there's a lot of questions about how he passed away. and, you know, but we'll never know, right? I mean, so, but my grandmother would talk about my grandfather and her chest would just swell with pride. You know, I was the baby of the family, and so when I would see that, I just thought to myself, but when she talks about me, I want her to do that same thing. So it looks like I need to be a Marine for that to happen,

because every time she would talk about him, something from his time of the service in the Marines would be, very close to that sentence and I knew I want whatever that is and at eight years old I made my mind up that I'm I'm getting that no matter what it takes I'm gonna get that I mean the only alternative was death that was the only thing that was gonna stop me from getting it and you know my great man my and my uncle served in nom and was the second generation Marine who's still very much alive.

And he's, you know, pretty, he's pretty salty. And it was funny, man, because before I went to boot, I talked to him with son Uncle Jack. You know, I'm about to go. What do I need to know? And this is all he said. He said, be loud, be fast, and don't volunteer for anything. That was it. So I'm on the phone and, like, waiting for the follow-up.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, okay. That's it. He loud, be fast, don't volunteer everything. I got to go. I'm hung up. And you know what's funny, man, is he's right. That's really, you know how many young dudes I've told that to?

They're like, hey, what do I need to know? I bet you I've said that three dozen times. In front of parents. This is almost the complete opposite of what, where the Master Chief of SEAL Team 1 told me when I got there, and he said, keep your mouth shut, keep your ears open, don't forget anything, and don't be late. That's what he told me.

And you've I volunteered for everything I was dumb But fired up I was a fired up kid Yeah, well not a lot of not much changed No, it's actually interesting because in the in the in the in polar junior's book He's talking about as as they're in there in the basic school and they're getting ready to select for what they want to do and they start getting graffiti on the desks and people are like Motor tea and out and three who gives the fuck drive a truck and they're just being

they're like not all of them a lot of them started looking at the war and going hey man you know what I don't want none of that and very few of them were saying hey I want to be an infantry platoon commander and that's what a lot of them got whether they wanted it or not yeah well yeah

a lot of them got war rather they wanted it or not well like I was just telling you he was he was OCS the basic school 20 days leave in Vietnam's platoon commander welcome to the

core. Yeah. Just when you think the green winnie can't get any harder, you know, it can. There's no limit. I mean, it's just true. It's like, man, with me, it was never, I never questioned, you know, I became a decent football player when I got to Texas, which was basically how I graduated high school. Not basically.

That's how I graduated high school. Straight up. Yeah. I was lucky enough to be selected as a. a captain my senior year and you know I played for a 5A Texas football team which is it's the real deal in Texas man and it's uh isn't that just just under the NFL like in terms of intensity you know how many times our team would get together and we'd be like we would like list out all the college teams we were totally sure we could beat just young and stupid man but I mean and it's just

it's crazy because you see the the athleticism difference between especially when you go to your big schools and the NFL. It's the speed. It's crazy. And the strength. I mean, all of it, the agility, it's night and day. It's night and day. And it just goes to show you these young kids, you don't know shit. You think you know a lot. You don't know shit. I mean, I was that way and I mean, well, really, I still don't know shit. And I'll be 36 this mom. And I, you know, I mean, anyone who comes up to me and they're like, hey, I got to figure out. You know what I say? Perfect. You no longer need to be in my circle because I'll never learn anything from you.

I mean, I know I'm going to die a student in life. But, man, I was, I loved football. That was, that's what I thought high school was for, you know. And so it was the old cliche thing. It was semi-small city. Where in Texas were you? Coppell. Coppell. C-O-P-E-L-L-O-C-C-L-C-W Cowboys.

and you know had it not been for the for like my counselor and the principal and all those people like I wouldn't graduate because I was pretty spent from the the political crap by the time you know my senior year rolled around and I just didn't know if I wanted it I didn't know if I wanted to deal with it anymore you know I didn't know if I wanted to play the game that comes with playing the game and it just got to where

It was like, you know, this is, it's kind of bullshit. Because it's like growing up, right? In small town, Louisiana, where you go to church every Wednesday, every Sunday morning, and you put on your Sunday best, and you go to church and you act a certain way, or you're out in public, and you act a certain way. You know, because you get home and the door's closed, that's all bullshit. I mean, and we're being conditioned as little kids, like, hey, just fake it until you make it. and you know I'm all right saying that now so you got so when you were in high school you kind of

got tired of playing the game you were just thinking now now didn't you join the marine corps yeah beginning my senior year because I was already 18 I didn't tell anybody because I thought that was a good idea and I went over famously with my dad because my dad thought I was going to go play ball to small school because I because I missed more days my senior year than I actually went to dang well because when football season was over, I was like, sweet, I'm done. Yeah. Like, that's it.

I'm like, I don't need to do this school shit anymore. That's overrated. But I knew it was not, you know, I mean, then they. Now, were you thinking, did you join, were you planning to go active duty? Were you in the reserves? No, so I'd signed up in my recruiter, who I'll never forget, was a, he was legit, man. You hear a lot of, like, horror stories about recruiters. I literally have a question in here.

It's like, how was your recruiter? Because so many people have good recruiter stories one way or the other they either screwed him or totally took care of them So my recruiter first of all he got me out of a lot of stuff where I was like dude Where nowadays there's no way it just wouldn't fly and I was like how the hell did you do is like don't worry about it You just better be at MEPs want to tell you to be in maps I'm like bro you can drive me if you want but he He had just so they you know most recruiting stage or like inside a shopping center or whatever.

So they were right next to like a big grocery store chain. And one day some dude goes instill some stuff. And he chases him down and like whips his ass in the parking lot. So he was a firefighter in the core, right? And I volunteered for infantry. I was like, I'm going to be on a big run. He tried talking me out of it for months. He's like, Jake, you really don't want to do that.

I was like, no, that's what I want to do. Yeah. And, but he chased the dude down, and I was like, see, that was, for me, that was affirmation from God that I'm doing the right thing. You know? These are my people. This is where I'm supposed to be, you know? But it was, man, I, my second, I think it was a second week of football season. And I jacked up my right knee, my MCL of my right knee.

and when I went and signed the paperwork, I was on crutches and an embrace. And I opened the door and, like, hobble in, and he goes, what are you doing? And I said, I'm just here to sign up. And he goes, not like that, you're not. When I said, give me two weeks, we're playing, whoever we were playing. I said, I'll be on the field, give me two weeks. And he was like, there's no way. I said, okay, be here in two weeks.

And he showed up, and I played it. It hurt like hell. But I played through it. lied to my trainers, lied to the coaches. I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. You know, just the young, dumb, like, you know, power before IQ, right? Just power through. If you can just power through, you don't really need the IQ.

And that's what. You're going to be stupid. You've got to be tough. That's it. That's it, man. And there's a lot of truth to that, which we can all attest to that, right? Every person. I don't care.

I don't care if you have a pecker or not. You can attest to that. if you're going to be stupid, you better be tough. Gotta be tough for sure. But I ended up playing and I signed up. I didn't tell anybody. And then it was actually I graduated by the grace of God. And because of high school football in Texas.

And it was amazing, man, because my dad actually met my recruiter at the high school graduation. And he was in his dress blues, which is, you know, the best. uniform there is no one can argue and and if you do you're just stupid but he he walks up and I said hey dad you know I'd like you to meet my recruiter and he looked at me and my recruiter held his hand out to shake his hand and my dad looked at me and he said and your dad did was this your dad finding out yeah oh dang and he said why would you do that and he looks at my He looks back at me, like waiting for me to answer. I said, Dad, I would shake his hand.

You're a banker. I would shake his hand. Pretty sure he could take you. And he was pissed, man. He was pissed because he's... And I didn't understand why at the time, really. You know, but later on... This is 2000, right?

This is pre-September 11th. Yeah, 2001, actually. I was my graduation. So this is May or June, 2001. on. Okay, so yeah, this is pre-9-11. I'm already signed up. I'm in, I'm going. And he... So your dad's thoughts were more around like, hey, you should go to college, you should get a job, you know, I'm a banker, it's a good life, that type of thing. You don't need to go and do this other stuff. Exactly. And so my thing was... Because there's no war going on, you know, at that time.

Right, yeah, no. I mean, it was, it was quote-unquote peace time. And, uh, which we all know, Those are such thing, but whatever. You know, whatever rainbows and roses and lollipops people want to have in their safety bubble. But we, you know, we, I knew that that was, that's what I was destined to do. I knew it. Like, I felt it as much as I know that, like, my legs never going to grow back. Like, I knew that much that this is what I'm supposed to do. And I was hell-bent on it.

Hell-bid. And so when my dad was pissed, I was, I questioned it because maybe I didn't. tell them or I kept it from them and a myriad of things right I mean it's never just one thing anything is never just one thing like I love people like well I know what the problem is I'm like well what do you want to bet there's more than one because it's it's just the way it is but he I didn't realize and I didn't think about you know at the time I'm I'm 19 at this point and I didn't think about he had seen what war does to not only a person person, but someone that is his blood, his flesh and blood.

He's seen the after effects. So he saw, was his dad and Ewo? Was that his dad or was that your mom's? That was my dad's dad. And his brother? His older brother. Yeah. And so he had seen the after effects and seeing, you know, my grandfather was a hard man.

And, you know, the way that he was a man when it was okay to be a man and you wouldn't get judged for being a man. Whereas now that's a lot. I mean, don't act like you don't want to help talking about either. Because now it's like, but you can use either bathroom. That's okay. Like it's, yeah. I mean, it's.

Yeah, I'm looking at you with a blank stare because I'm like detached from all that like all that political. I don't even. It's weird, man. My life is weird that I don't, I just kind of evolve and or revolve in my own little world. So when I, when I hear like, when I do, when that kind of stuff enters my world, I'm just kind of like, Is that really happening? And it doesn't really compute and I move on. I don't know.

Well, see, but when you're in my world, it's almost, you have to know. It's, I mean, unfortunately, with what we're trying to do. Yeah. It's, well, it's a big-ass mountain we're trying to move, man. And it's, but anyway, I go to boot and actually, 9-11 happens. Yeah. I'm in my room the night before. And the whole thing behind the reserves was, so I thought about it.

And I was like, okay. So when you graduate in May of 2001, you screw around for the summer, being a Texas kid that graduated from high school that's going in the Marine Corps. I bet that was a real PG-rated situation. 100%. Then September 11th time, when's your boot camp? When are you leaving for boot camp? I leave for boot camp the month after 9-11. Check.

So it's on. Yeah. And so it was 9-11 happens. And so the way I looked at it was like, okay, you know what? My grandfather was corporal shick. My uncle was corporal shick. I'm going to raise the bar for whoever the fourth generation is. I mean, because that's what we're supposed to do, right, for those that come after us.

And so I was like, okay, I'm going to join the reserves. Still infantry. I'm always going to stay infantry. I wanted to be career infantrymen. And then I'll pick up E5. By that time, I'll already have my degree. And then I'll get my. I'll get my commission.

Then I'll be a must thing. So whoever the fourth generation is, like the bar set. So that was my mindset, right? Obviously, Johnny Giot had different plans. But we, but 9-11 happens. And man, it was, I mean, it became very real, very quick. Yeah. That, oh, okay, well, this is, I mean, I was gung-ho about it.

Yeah. But my, in my buddy, we wake up and my mother walks in, my room and like opens the door and beer cans like get pushed everywhere so first she's like what the hell is the and then she's like turn on the tv we're under attack and I turned on the tv I looked at my buddy and we went to the we did the buddy system and the core and um I looked at him and I was like bro we're going to war check and it was when it you know for a 19 year old kid you have that sense of let's rock and roll but then the smart little,

little smart person that lives in the back of your head was like, this may suck. Like, this may suck bad. But it obviously didn't deter my, my motivation in doing that. And so we, yeah,

man, I left a month after 9-11, which was, you know, I was right down the street from here, MCRD San Diego. Man, let me tell you something.

As if Marine Corps drill instructors need any more motivation to be Marine Corps drill instructors. Oh, yeah. They had it. September 11th, they were ready to get some. They had it. It was gnarly. But no matter from the time that we landed and the time that we got on the bus,

this was something that always cracked me up, because you land, you can see the depot from the runway. But for whatever reason, the bus ride takes like an hour and a half. You know? Oh, yeah. That's welcome to the military in general. It didn't take long for me to completely understand why that is the way it is. And so it was, but from the time, the first time I still on the yellow footprints, up till now, up to this point right now today, I wouldn't question, I don't question any of it. I don't, I wouldn't take any of it back.

I wouldn't trade any of it. I have no doubt that everything has happened exactly the way it's supposed to happen. I don't believe in coincidences. and I wouldn't take anything back. I mean, just because something that I've learned at the ripe old age of soon to be 36 is that you can't have triumph without trials, a tribulation tragedy. Those are kissing cousins. You know, you can't have one without the other.

And where you go with it is up to you. And, you know, my life was one hell of a roller coaster ride, and it started the first time I stood on those yellow footprints. And it started way before that. man. Started, you know, I definitely had trauma before the trauma. I think the majority of us do because we live in a very spoiled first world society. And we forget that we're mere mortals.

There's nothing special about us. We're all the same. We were all just living, breathing, sacks of skin. Jack. You know, that's it. And so when I started boot, it was, it was one of those deals where, you know, where the mindset started of, and I already had some leadership skills thanks to football and team sports.

And I had, I'd learned that growing up. And then in high school, I really got to home those leadership skills, which really helped me in boot. I mean, I really believe in team athletics because it's like everything. No matter what you're dealing with,

the greater good is always going to be bigger than you. Always. And you have to hang on to that humility and that, I'm just the dude. just a dude being a dude just a dude playing a dude trying to be another dude

but you know what I'm you know what I mean it's you you realize often if you're really trying to do something that's worth doing you're reminded often how human you are yeah and and you know I used to tell my guys if you're doing something for the right

reasons you're going to win in the end and that means if you're doing something that's going to help the team win you're going to win in the end you're going to get what you want the things are going to go the way you want. If you're doing something for your selfish reasons or for the wrong reasons, you're going to lose in the end. Now, you might both those, the person that's doing it for the right reasons might lose some battles along the way. The person that's doing it for the wrong reasons might win some battles along the way.

But the end game, a person, if you're doing the right things, the right reasons, if you're looking out for the team, if you're doing it for the good of the team, you're going to win. And if you're doing the opposite, eventually you're going to lose. That's the way it works. That's it. You're 100% right. I mean, you know what? The history books, they'll get it right. They do.

They'll get it right. Sometimes it takes years. Sometimes it takes 10 years. It takes decades. But the people that are doing the right things for the right reasons, they win. Yeah. And it's like I tell guys all the time, which I still, the humanity in me still has to, I have to remind. Every time I talk to a guy, when I say guy, I mean man or woman, it doesn't matter.

But every time I talk to them, I usually start the conversation out with no matter what comes. comes out of this hole underneath my nose, I need you to know I'm talking to myself too. Every time. Yeah, check. And I say, it's, I say, you know, it's none of our business what the hell other people think of us. It is none of my business what anyone else thinks of me. It should have very little impact on any decision I make every day all day. None.

It should have no impact. Yeah. Yeah. There's an interesting dichotomy in that. And I've talked about that on this podcast before. Because for me, right, I'm a guy that on the one hand, the exact same thing. Like, I don't care what people think.

At the other end of the spectrum, I absolutely care what everyone thinks. And I'll draw you into this. When you were doing something, I mean, when I was doing something in the SEAL teams, I'd be thinking always like, hey, is this the right thing? What's this going to do to my reputation? What is my buddy going to think of me if I cut the corner here, if I don't do the right thing? So my reputation, the way I was looked at, I did feel that pressure all the time. And at the same time, if someone was like, oh, I don't like your clothes or whatever, I don't care at all.

But things that I cared about and from people that I cared about and respected, I always had the attitude that, like, yeah, you know what? I do care what they think. I do care what my, you know, I'll tell you. man one of the hardest things I had to do when I wrote a book and like here you are you're gonna write a book you know you're gonna write a book about yourself it's it's it's it's a arrogant conceded thing to do no matter what you say in the book it doesn't matter it's you're writing a book about about you and and you know layf who wrote the book with me same thing the primary concern for me was like what are my

bros in the teams gonna think of me right so That's hard. Yeah, but there's, so there's a balance between those two things. You're right. But let me simplify it. The people that you're never going to meet. Yeah. So I'll Barney style it for you.

Yeah, sometimes you need to dumb things down for this guy over here. They're everyone at this table. Let's just be honest. Yeah. The people you're never going to meet, they will have little to no impact on your life and your will. being henceforth. It doesn't matter.

They think they matter. And that's okay. Let them think what they want to think. But it doesn't matter. Yeah. Now, that's 100% right. For sure. Because it's real easy,

especially in the line of work that we do, that we do day to day at 22 kill. It's real easy for people to sit on their self-loathing asses behind their computer screen and pass judgment. When we continue to grind onward in the face of trouble, tremendous loss. There's something to be said for that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, that, that, that right there is a test of will and character,

all its own. In the face of tremendous loss to say, okay, we have to step back, we have to reassess, we'll readdress and we'll reengage, let's adjust our left, right, right, loud limits, but, but they're still ground to take and demons to slay. we have to move forward and burn our pain as fuel because that's what we do because if not us who and so that all that started when I was standing on those yellow footprints

because you had this and it's something that you'll agree people that know their stuff about the military agrees with one thing that can be said about the Marine Corps no other branch regardless of the division adheres for tradition as much as the Marines. I mean, you asked me about Chesty, and I'm like, yeah, I mean, we told them good night

every night for three months. The Marine Corps is absolutely, absolutely correct. Yeah, the Marine Corps does not play around when it comes to tradition. And I think there's a, the proofs in the pudding, right? I mean, since 1775, we've shown that we adhere to that. That's what makes us who we are. And that's why it's, I think that we have the, you have. the success rate that we have, regardless of being the basher children or the military,

not really knowing who our dad is and being poor, we make it work. We have, since day one, been able to really define what improvised, adapt, and overcome means. We've been able to live that and prove situations where outside looking in, it's a total loss and come out with a W, come out with a victory. because of that very tradition that makes us who we are. Because when all those fells, all you have is your gut. Now, when you were going through boot camp, though,

was there any combat veterans there? I don't think we had one. That's a testament to what you're talking about, right? Yeah. Is that even though no one had been in combat in, well, there's probably been a few guys that went to the Gulf War, maybe there's a couple guys that went to Smalia, Maybe a couple guys that went to grenade or something or Panama maybe

Yeah, yeah But those are like onesies and two zies and Right and there's a chance that Like none of your DIs had any combat experience It's a great point, man And yet the lessons get passed on you know I had old old Vietnam seal on here And he was talking about when he came back from Vietnam

And he instituted this certain type of training at out in the desert And I was like I went through that training and he's like yeah, well I put that together like the same it's a point man course where they put booby traps they put targets to chew out and all this stuff I was like yeah he's like I made that up and I was like oh we still do it we still do it and so that tradition in the Marine Corps is like 200 years yeah of things being passed down right solid yeah I mean it's something that I mean listen it even now it makes me swell of pride you know like I understand why my grandmother reacted the way she did truly now you know

and I've been able to live that I've been blessed enough to to live this journey that, I mean, yeah, it comes with a lot of pain and a lot of hard lessons. You know, I mean, pain's inevitable. Suffering is optional. That's something I've learned, too. You know, I mean, it's no one's going to be harder on you than you. Every day you wake up, you should just be thinking to yourself, all right, today it's me versus me. You know, and no one wakes up and goes, I'm going to go out of my way to be average today.

Like, if you wake up and do that, you need to have a gut check. So you get done with boot camp and then you go to Pendleton for infantry training? Yeah, so I went up to Pendleton and, you know, which was fun, man. You know what sucks is in boot. I was first squad leader up until like a week before graduation. I think it was just because the senior general instructor didn't like me. I didn't like him either, though, so it was mutual. but um and there's one d i had that i swear if i saw him on the street today like i'd go find

him right now i'm not kidding at all there was one dude that like i had ptsd from that guy because he was going out of his way to try and mentally break me and it just never happened and uh what do you what do you why was that i think it became this personal thing to him because he saw how other recruits would gravitate so he might have been like jealous of your natural leadership. I don't doubt it at all. I don't know, I mean, because he was ugly. He was... Not handsome like yourself. No, and obviously,

I mean, moneymaker, bro. You know, but he was... But he was, you could tell the underneath at all, like, he was a great Marine. Yeah, yeah. And he, he... Yeah, we lied a lot for that guy and a few other DIs, but

you know, it was just, I was thankful for our boot camp, but with the last name like shick you know our guide's last name was schmitter that's nice so for three months hey shitter go get your brother shit three months man the only time i ever got emotional in boot camp was on the parade deck on graduation day when um hammers one of the di's we had he looked at me and he he said i got to tell you shick and i heard the k and like i got emotional like dude i got my my name back. I earned it back.

But he told me what he told me. And then my dad was there actually and walks by me on the parade deck and tosses me a can of Copenhagen, Longcott. Didn't even look at me. And he said, good job. Let's go eat. Like, keeps walking. So I was like, okay, he's still pissed.

I get it. Dang. Cold-blooded. Yeah, dude. But it was, you know, and like I said, for years, I didn't get it. Yeah. And then, you know, go up to SOI to Pendleton and, and, um, I. I loved every minute of that, too.

Here's what made it awesome for me. And this is something that a lot of the listeners will relate to is that, no matter how gnarly it got in boot or how gnarly it got an SOI or how tired or hungry or just beat down you were mentally, physically, emotionally, all you had to do was look to your left or right. Because guess what? So are they. Yeah.

But you go to fall down. They're right. to pick you up no matter how tired you are who doesn't want that yeah no you can't buy it you can't buy you have to pay for that with sweat blood and tears period and i learned also early on you're going to find your great leaders by following the blood trail literally and figuratively it's not hard to find take off your first war blinders you'll find them follow the blood trail you'll find them. And I knew the ones that were, and I knew the ones that weren't. And now, so does everyone else. Comes out in the wash, right? But we, you know, SOI was awesome. I mean, I remember

the first, the first weekend that we had Libbo. What's the first thing that you think that they tell us, young stupid Marines at SOI, Pendleton? Oh, you're getting your first liberty? The one place not to go. TJ? The one place. I mean, where do you think? Like a van full of us go. Yeah.

Do you take a Marine Corps van? No, but we should have. That would have been impressive. I can't, I still, to this day, you know, we left Friday evening. To this day, I can't believe they let me back in the United States. Like, I was, I was throwed, hard. And at the time, my brother, I don't know if it was his girlfriend at the time. time she was for some reason here in uh in southern cow and she was like hey come you know see me and

i saw her somewhere by the border or whatever i'm sure i smelled amazing yeah and like the look on her face was like how are you breathing right now because you know my idea was when they said turn two on liberty oh yeah like that's exactly i was i was seeking liberty yeah no matter and i wanted to find what liberty look like i've told this story before i was We pulled into port one time I was on a ship I was in a seal platoon. We pulled into port and what we used to do There's be a line to get off the ship like checking Liberty cars So when the when the ship pulled in the port we'd work out that take an hour then we take a shower and then the line be gone We'd go out so we do that

We've been in port for like an hour and 15 minutes we go up to leave and they're carrying a marine back on the ship He's completely covered a pew passed out drunk he did that in like 48 minutes bro That's impressive That's getting after it Chesty would have loved those Yeah I'd listen How do you not respect that?

Yeah No Because back in the day I would have been like I want to hang out with that dude But it's I mean that's just what You know

It's just what we do That's what that is What that is Is an 18 year old Human being That's been in boot camp S-O-I Hasn't

Let loose at all and has become a man, by the way, or at least has been told in some way that he's become a man, his head. And that's where. Still has the boot stripe. You know? And it's like, bro, you're not fooling anybody. Yeah. Yeah.

I get it, though. I get it, man, because it's, you get there and it's like, okay, did boot, did that. That was, you know, way more mental than physical. And it's, they're good at what they do. Yeah, for sure. They're good at what they do. I remember my grandmother telling me just remember they have a job to do. They're doing their job.

Not one thing you go through is going to be personal. She was wrong, however, with that one D.I. Grandma was wrong on that guy. Yeah. This is the same one. She was a hard woman, man. She was one of those. She used to always say I suffer from what comes up, comes out syndrome, because there was no filter.

Yeah, yeah. And I love that about her because it was. It was true. Like, if she didn't like you, you knew. Yeah. You know, and she would always say, as far as I'm concerned, I have one grandbaby. Talking about me right in front of my siblings. Her give an F tank was bone dry.

Dead. Give none. This is the same woman, the first time she sees me in the hospital, and I'm all banged up. And she says, well, baby, I guess God didn't want you and the devil won't have you. And I was like, you know what, I'll take it, me, me. Yeah. I mean, I had an old World War II Marine, I was flying to Vegas. for some event or something

maybe I had to speak at or whatever and he said just remember young man bad breathed better than no breath I said Roger that sir right on but um man it was you know boot was was one of those things where

you're part of the club but not like yeah you know you're so when you're at SOI how do they figure out what position you're going to be in a platoon so So I, it's more of a numbers thing. So I school training as 0311 riflemen, right? And then so I go through all the 0311 riflemen training.

And, you know, you get to, you get to finger most of the weapons throughout the infantry. And then it was, I never understood the hamps, man. I never liked them. Always hated them. Because it was like, hey, let's go put on a stupid amount of weight. Let's go warm up walking around motor tea three or four times and look at all the vehicles that we're never going to use. I always felt like we were screwing the taxpayer. You know, actually, I can honestly say I have never, ever in my life done what you just said, which is warm up for a hump.

I've never done that. I was always just like, hey, I'll warm up for the first eight hours of this deal. Well, you know, some Marine Corps, dude. You're going to warm up walking around motor tea. I like that, taking it to the next level. It's just, you know, more mind games is Milton. Bradley, bro. But it was, it was the, the humps that were like, I was just thinking to myself, like,

why don't we utilize all the stuff with motors and rotors? I like that you're walking around the motor transport, which is where all the vehicles are that could carry you. Knowing you're not going to use them. No, no. But that was the, you know, that, you know, we finished SOI and we did, you know, a lot of the training was, um, there were so many times. where you would hear the guys

God, we did this 10,000 times yesterday and we're doing it another 10,000 times today. Because as you well know, we're all really good. No matter the caliber of warrior and the amount of training you have, we are all class A bitchers.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%. You guys complain about everything. Everything. Everything. You know, then we go off to these foreign places and these gnarly situations and we get home and we're like, I want to go back.

without a miss it. I know why that is the way it is now. Yeah. I know now. That's just because as crazy as it is, it's easier. Oh, yeah, well, you got to have some fun with it. Yeah, well, you come back here and it's like, it's just freaking Jerry Springer and the Kardashians.

Like, just, and it's like, when can we just utilize an ounce of common sense? You know, just please for the love of God and all it's holy. could we just call a dog a dog and a cat a cat and a man be a man and a woman be a woman and not worry about everything in between and all the judgment that's going to follow being what god made you like could we just focus on toughening up and teaching our children who will one day lead this country that believe it or not the planet doesn't give a shit about your feelings you're not always always you're not always going to win. And mommy and daddy are not always going to be there deafening you with the rotor wash from their helicopter parenting. Like that's going to go away.

Yeah. Jack. Because this world will punch you in the mouth and then laugh. What do we teach in our kids? One of the, my son knows, because I tell him, it is my job as your parent to make sure you were prepared to take

said punch and punch back. because at some point it's going to happen. And I would rather you lose, whether you're in an MMA competition or baseball or whatever it is, I would rather you lose doing everything properly at 100% than win not doing the fundamentals the way you're supposed to and going 50%. And he looked at me like, well, Dad, didn't it?

No, believe it or not, it's not always about winning because you're going to lose a lot. Yeah, that's life. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, it's something that's just start young. Start young, letting them know that it's not all rainbows, roses, and lollipops. That there's no such thing as waking up on your unicorn ranch and picking which unicorn you're going to ride on what rainbow to wherever you go. It doesn't exist.

Can you do me favor? Can you just, the last part about no unicorns? Can you not tell my daughter that, my eight-year-old daughter? Because she's like actually, she's waiting kind of. Setting traps. and stuff. Imagine that. Yeah.

Hey, so you get done with SOI. Yeah. And now where do you go? Because are you in the reserves at this point? Yeah, so I get done with the SOI and I go check in and I was late. Oh, that's a good call. Checking in. Yeah, so I didn't, it was a communication breakdown, right?

Sure. So I didn't, it wasn't my fault. No, nothing's, you know, this recruit just don't know, sir. But it was a situation the guy I checked in with was... Where were you checking in? What were you checking in to... To my unit. It was in Basier.

Okay. Also known as Bojure. Okay. So I was supposed to check in with the dude that I was in a boot or S-O-I with. I can't remember we went to boot together or not. But he goes and checks in. I believe it was a Friday. And so he goes checks on Friday with First Started.

And then he calls me. He's like, Jake. first son I want to know where the hell you are and I was like dude I thought you're he's like no bro he won't see you like now

so I'm there Monday morning first thing and he looks at me and he was like where the hell are you double dog and I was like sorry for Sharon you know so so didn't tell me that and he was like

is he a keeper and I was like there's no easy way out of this you know I look around his office and all of his awards and the accolades and I'm just like I just asked him like do you can we just go to the gym and you beat the show me and just get

let's get this over with you know some of those things where where when your dad asks you like now do you want to be grounded for a month or do you want the bell 10 times out of 10 I'm like you want me go get the belt for you because that's easier right let's just let's just get through the the temporary pain and then

move forward and with i was the same with first art which i think in the beginning he liked yeah you know little in the beginning yeah yeah because it was i developed a bit of repetition over time but it was um again liberty liberty but he was um little did i know that i was checking in with now Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps Oh damn And I didn't I had

Of course You know you can't Yeah You can't Pritch out of that Yeah And so it was But he was the one

One of the guys He was just a Marine's Marine man He's like You know It's like he fell off a poster And there he was You know Like three red strike

Big Mac black belt And I mean Drill Master All You name it He did it and so he uh we got pretty tight and you know he he disciplined me when he had to but it was one of those things where at the time my unit when i checked in was actually in gitmo and they were

doing base security and all that stuff and then they uh he tells me hey stay close to your phone you're going to go meet up with your unit in getmo i'm like yeah roger that first aren't good to go are we in 2002 yet yet? This is, yeah, so this is, uh, ex-alzing boot during Marine Corps birthday and Christmas. Yeah, and so this was, uh, there's a flashback to being in boot camp for Marine Corps birthday and Christmas. Marine Corps birthday, I don't know if they still do it. I'm sure they do.

Oh, yeah. But they give you steak and shrimp and, like, cake in the chow-hall. And so we got back to the barracks and that one deal I was telling you about. who I pray to God hears this because he'll know exactly who I am. Come find me, bro. But we line up, we get online in the squad bay, and he makes this, we just finish this epic mill. We had more than like a minute and a half to eat. Got to sit there for a good five or six minutes, which is an eternity at the time.

We get back online and start pounding canteens, hold them up to our head, run back to the head. refill them get back online pound the canteens hold them over your head empty do it again and again and again and you said we're doing this until every one of you pukes up that meal that you don't deserve and so and we did and then the first of course yeah chain reaction the first the few pukes and then it just starts like with me I would rather seriously be having like cruel and unusual punishment done to me then puke so I'm fighting it like like a mo like I'm fighting it hard and then the company CO walks in the back door and it was hilarious because the said the eye like goes white like uh-oh yeah because he's hazing you know and that's when daddy

walks in and sees it just walk by all of us and he's like he had to go back behind the racks because he didn't want to get puke on his Us guys were just puking on the deck Right in the middle of squad Yeah it was all yeah Because we were just gonna deck towel it after the fact anyway But then that was that was Marine Corps boot

That was I'm sorry Marine Corps birthday Yeah So then Christmas rolls around same DIY And it's Christmas Eve You know we do our lights out Night Chesty wherever you are He opens the door

We'll just say it was like Rudolph Red Nosed Reindeer Everyone knows the song, right? So he opens the door to the duty hut, and all you hear is Rudolph the Red, bam, the door slam. And you just hear him go, that's all you get, bitches.

So you hear a lot of these one-liners that, I stayed in trouble in the Marine Corps for laughing when you're not supposed to laugh. Like, if I have to laugh, it's coming. I can't hold it. I immediately lose it, but one of the guys who was already in the targets of the D.I.

started laughing and it was i think he was gone like a day and a half later like it was yeah but it's some of these one-liners man it's like you hear them it's like where do these dudes come up with this stuff but then you see him yelling at trees on the on the base and you're like oh like they're graded on yelling at a tree yeah yeah who wakes up like i want to do that wasn't wasn't me but i i checked in the dudes were in getmo and um i stayed by my phone phone never rang so i got i was i lucked So what were you doing in the civilian? So were you living as a civilian doing drill one weekend a month or whatever? I started school.

Yeah, I mean, and I was training, you know, getting ready because I knew we were going to go. Iraq and Afghanistan just didn't know which one. You know, being in a line unit, you knew we were going to go. And so it was the guys got home and we started training and I'm in school, which went about like high school went, minus the football. and then So it was funny Because I realized early on

Like I can do this I can do this school thing The only downfall to that was Is it was like Okay I've been after this for A year Like I've already proved myself I can do this

I don't need to see it through But it's Now I'm just wasting my time You know there's a lot of you're here to drink and you know typical mindset but the but my unit gets home and

and I go and meet the guys which is like every other you show up to the first time it's like going to jail the first time like you're immediately being sized up and it's like but I was one of those guys who like I was not I just wasn't going to take

a shit and so it went well for me because I was able to use dumb strength and humor to kind of get in with the guys who outranked me but they also knew that I loved it. I love what I did. And so the guys get back

and this one guy who's a freaking mortarman, go figure, and he's like, hey, shit, you're a big dude. You should be a gunner. You're going to be a gunner. What do you think about being a gunner? What doesn't matter? You're going to be a gunner.

So I was like, all right, whatever, sorry. Like 31, okay, go be a gunner. and then we did our first hump with that system. How you like that? I was like, I'm going to beat that dude within an inch of his life because I knew I could. And I was like, that son of a bitch should not tell me that came with like a tripod. And it was like, oh, it sucked. But it was, you know, I mean, you're earning your stripes, you know.

But it was one of those things where we were just waiting. But we were a tight unit. We were a tight-knit group. And I think that probably had a lot to do with us knowing that it's a matter of time. Right. Right. And most of us weren't prior combat guys. We were a young unit.

And it was interesting, man, because it was an eclectic group, a group from all walks of life, which is something that I always really admired about the military, regardless of what branch or special, whatever, is that you are, forced to communicate and to adapt with other people. Because if you don't, you're, you're screwed. Yeah. And that's something that I always appreciated. And at the same time, it wore me the hell out because there were some guys, you know, there's some guys that you're just like, you know, if I never saw that guy again,

it'd be too soon. And it's usually just because, you know, it's. Well, I always have to explain to civilians that I'm working with, because, A lot of people have the impression of civilians that, you know, the civilians have the impression that everyone in the military is just like a machine that just is going to do what they're told. And if you're the sergeant, the corporal's going to solicit you. And it's like, mm, well, it really doesn't work like that. Like, it'll work like that for a little while. It'll work for, you know, a little while.

But over time, those young guys will or the junior people, if you're not leading them correctly, you're not going to be able to get things done. Oh, you can turn into a shit show real quick. Real quick. Real quick. because you're also dealing with a bunch of dudes that feel like that are of the mindset. I can take on this world with one hand tied behind my back by myself. You're dealing with that. You know exactly what I'm talking about.

Those alpha personalities are abundant. Yeah, yeah. And then you mix in a lot of testosterone and stupidity and you have a very dangerous situation. Low IQ high T count. We like it. That's basically what it is. It is. Now, did you guys do like the, so you're doing one week and a month of drill and then you do two weeks in the summertime, but then in what, 2003 you guys get called up or 2004?

I think we got the call in 2003, I believe, if I'm not mistaken. I've been blown up since then and hitting the head a lot. So I don't know. I think we got the call in 2003 saying that we were going to be called at a certain time. They gave you like a warning order like, okay, it's coming. Pretty much. And then they said, okay, you're going to go do your work up in 29 Palms, California. And so we, you know, we get to 29 Palms.

And I was like, I remember, man, getting off that bird. And I was just like, this place sucks. I thought you were going to have something really profound to say. And you said it with 29 Palms. This place sucks. It was, I was like, why? Why do, of course the Marines would have this base. Yeah.

Of course. It made total sense. You know, it was just like, let the bitching begin. Yeah. And it was abundant, bro. It was abundant. Because unless you had money to go to Palm Springs, I'll see you at 29 stops. Yeah.

Right out the gate. And you're inevitably going to be fighting. This is the amazing thing. This is the amazing thing is. I got asked on the podcast, you know, how do you, how do I, you know, my, I checked into a battalion or I think a guy was a company commander. The morale's not good. How do we get the morale good? Like, do hard things.

You want to improve morale, do hard things. Yeah. And one of the things, like, what are you going to do at 29 stumps? What are you going to do there? Well, you're going to hang out with each other. That's what you're going to do. It's going to suck. You're going to go to the field.

You're going to sweat. It's going to be hot. And you're going to do hard things and you're going to become tighter as a unit. That's what happens. Yeah. Imagine that. Yeah. Imagine that.

Weird. Weird. It's just weird how that works. Now, who was running the training? Did they have a training cadre out there? So we, I'm trying to remember. It was. Or are you guys training yourselves?

Is your officer leading the training? We had. Gunny sergeant. Yeah, I mean, we had Gunny. There was kind of both, right? We had, like, we would go to Mounttown or whatever, and we would have some mountain truckers out there. Got it.

But it wasn't because, I mean, a lot of guys were forward deployed. Yeah. I mean, we were gone. And, but we literally, we trained, we trained hard. I mean, it was, you talk about training for the sake of muscle memory. Yeah. We, it was gnarly what we did. And it was, like you said, we did a lot of hard things too.

And we only got tighter and tight. tighter. Yeah. And tighter as a unit. But we, it was, I mean, I remember the first time we went out to do our first training evolution out at American Mines. And we humped out there, of course, because, you know, don't want to use the vehicles. And I remember we staged, we staged our gear.

And my patunist started drops us back. And there was like a little rattlesnaked in by where he dropped his pack. and so we had to go move and then he goes to put his pack on to move and there's a black scorpion on his pack and I was like this is awesome like this is

and then we had a ton of bees that were after the the water buffalo the trailer the big water trailers and it was like we can't yeah it's just it's inevitable

Marine Corps shit like it's the suck factor is going to be pegged the entire time. Yeah. And it was, it's like this guy was just looking down on us,

man, like, hey, you're going to earn it. Yeah. One day I'm going to have this team guy buddy on mine on, he's got a lot of rattlesnakes stories from the desert because rattlesnakes are very amusing,

you know, once you start catching them and putting them in people's vehicles and putting them in their, their backpack. Sure. Just stuff like that. Like, yeah,

that's cool. I'm telling you right now, that's good stuff right there. Someone would have to stay. I'm not kidding. Yeah, no, it's... You want to see someone jump, though. Yeah.

It does. But, hey, you know, they don't know that the fangs have been removed. Rip the fangs out with a leatherman. Ask me how much I care. You're completely missing the point. It's the principle. Yeah. Snake season.

Get some. Dude, it was some of the best... The dark greens do not... like the the little creatures and the creepy crawlies and seeing some of the reactions and some of the dark greens

was what's the dark greens they're there to be politically correct they're African American Marines dark green Marines got you call them dark greens and they know and they call them so it's accepted

right it doesn't bother them dark green they don't write their congressman it's it's unbelievable the way that works So they're, it's, you know, and I got to see one. I just spoke this deal a couple days ago. That was yesterday. And one of the Marines I served was there, it was a dark green.

And, man, it was all, it was, probably hadn't seen him in a decade. Didn't miss a beat. It was, it was like, seriously didn't miss a beat. And I'm like, man, that was, God, just imagine, imagine if mankind could have a taste of that. Just a taste. It would be, imagine how much better the spinnbawal chaos would be. But it's, it was awesome. It was just good to see him and to see the way that he changed.

You just see the maturity over time, you know, of how life can, it alters your course and alters your mindset because of the things you experience and you go through and how many times you're taught how human you are. You know, it was, it was cool. It was good for the soul, you know, and, uh, yeah, it was just cool to see him and be able to embrace that dude. And, I mean, that's my family. That is, I don't give a shit what color of skin is. That dude's my blood. And that's just the way it is. It's the way it always will be.

But we, um, and he used to, he used to annoy the shit out of me. Like, I used to think, like, his, his mouth is never going to shut. like one of these days man one of these days and uh but it was so epic because it was like that's my bro you know and it was it was just awesome man it just goes to show you like we get these little reminders in life if if you just shut your mouth and listen you get these little reminders of how worth it everything's been and what purpose everything is served and it was cool to see that I got one of those. And it gives me, it was a little fuel for the soul to keep going.

But I remember this, our first loss was in March Air Force Base. We were doing house-to-house fighting and abandoned housing unit in March Air Force Base. And it was a training loss because of a guy that they were practicing J-turns and a Humvee. And there was a young kid. He wasn't our company. He was a different company. Same battalion. And the Humvee flipped.

And he was, just the inertia of the Humvee flipping. He couldn't get out of the turret. And it was up armored. And so when it flips, it obviously kills the gunner. There's no way he's going to get out. And so mandatory 24-hour safety stand down to take our phones and all that stuff. And, you know, hey, don't run. right home, don't call anyone.

This is, you know, we got to abide by the SOPs. That was a, you know, that was one of, like, an eye-opening deal, man. That was like, okay, this is the real deal. Like, this, we're not, this is a life and death game we're playing. And I'll never forget when we got back to 29 Palms, which I don't know if it was a couple days later, three days later, day later, or whatever. But we wake up and we go to formation. And we walk out to go to formation and, man, everywhere you looked, you saw a piece of computer paper.

Just a regular piece of paper turn horizontally. They were taped all over the place. Everywhere you looked. And all he said on them was complacency kills. Everywhere you looked, you saw that complacency kills. Gunny had just printed out all these papers. And that, to this day, that sticks with me. and I think about it

not every all the time because we all get complacent but it could not be more true whether it's literal you know or figuratively speaking I mean of course in most of our lives nowadays

you get complacent yeah you might not die but something can be irreversibly damaged well yeah I mean I talk about that all the time just just the complacent even the complacency on the little things in life that's just putting you down the wrong path. That's just the way it is.

That's the reality. Hey, man, and let me tell you that I could be referred to as Captain Complaiso when it comes to that. I'll be the first to tell you that I'm much more sinner than saint. I always say, you know, that God gave his only son to suffer and down across because he knew there was going to be guys like me. The only difference is I'm willing to admit it. You know, I'm willing to own my flawed. us. And I say all the time that I've stood with everything from leaders of mankind, the

presidents, to the most savage individuals you'll ever meet and everything in between. The one common denominator is every one of them is equally fundamentally flawed. Every single one. Yeah, no doubt about that. They just have different clothes on. That's it. That's what I'm saying, man. If we could stop, if we could just stop with this political correctness and this false

manufactured protection. we could get I always say if you took out self-interest and self-gain in the fight for the greater good imagine where we would be right now imagine where we would be

because we would be leaps and bounds ahead of where we are we'd be light years ahead of where we are if there was nothing to be gained to help someone that you've never met and that can never repay you you just do it because we've been so

conditioned to be selfish. And it's unfortunate because it's what I love about this guy who's, for all intents of purposes, the godfather of the Marine Corps. People can say how he may have been arrogant or pompous or whatever, but I guarantee he was the last one to eat. Oh, yeah. He was definitely the last one to eat. Actually, that book's a great book, and there's a big difference between his reputation

of what people find. thought about him that never worked with him people that worked with him the so the the Marines that worked with them that served with them that he would go around their foxholes at night in negative 25 degree weather in and and and ask guys if they're okay and give him give him a shot of whiskey I mean he they they loved him because he cared about those be cared about them that's the the image as a matter fact like he had this driver that was with him for a long time Jones was his last name and Jones people would come up and say how did you stay with chest

He pulled it for so long. Didn't he chew you out and demote you? And he's like, no, the guy never yelled at me, ever. That's the difference. That's the difference between, that's the dichotomy between what his image was and what he was really like. The people who he would, the reason he had a reputation for being, you know, super, I guess, direct with people was the way he went up the chain of command. When he would tell an admiral out on a ship, like, you better put those bombs where we need him right now. You know, he'd up the chain of command or he'd come back to America and say, hey, the binoculars that you're building suck.

And they steam up and we can't see anything. What's wrong with you? So that's where he got the reputation. But down the chain of command, he was not like that. There's another great story in there that I cover on the podcast where he catches a guy sleeping on watch that are training. And he wakes the guy up. And he's the battalion commander. He wakes the guy up and says, hey, what are you doing sleeping?

What if your captain would have caught you? He would have had me come to court martial for you. It had been a disaster. You got to stay awake, old man. That's his nickname for everyone was old man. But that's the difference is he cared so much about his men. And, you know, that's the incredibly hard part that we were talking about earlier. It's like when his son comes home from Vietnam.

Oh, yeah. And, you know, he's like, his heart is broken. It's broken. And he can't even speak. And he can't, he's just convulsing with tears. And it's because, you know, he loved. his son, but his son was representative of every Marine. He said that.

You know, he said that. It was like the closing of that book. He tells his wife. His wife says, what do you want to do now that it's all over? And he's like, I want to see the face of every Marine I ever served with. Dude. You know? I mean, that right there, for anyone who's listening to this and questioning, what is my purpose?

Why am I alive? Why am I here? What's the point? two things and it's the same for every individual no matter what country no matter what little village doesn't matter we all have are here to do two things love and be loved that's it everything else is filler love and be loved that's it it's hard as shit because we make it hard as shit that's it when he saw his son

that all came crashing down on him that's it was reality yeah it was one of those like in whether it was in Lewis's situation where when you're severely wounded or you lose someone that you love

tremendously I mean with reckless abandonment you you love all the way and if you're of the right warrior mindset or first responder or law enforcement and you've been around that and you're the real deal you're probably just like me or you're you're incapable of loving halfway you're incapable of it because if we did that we're taking away from that in which we're supposed to be true to and to honor. And that's, that's the point. It's you get, you don't get a

piece of humble pie, you inhale the factory all at once. And that's just what it is. And some guys don't come out of that. You know, and if I'm, if I wasn't surrounded by people that were better than me and that refused to love me to death, I would be loose. And far be it for me to say, sit here and look at you and say, it's not an option. It's not an option. Because one thing I've learned in this fight, this fight of mental health and of this floating noodle in between our ears is that no one gets a pass. Nobody gets a pass. I don't care who you are, what you've been through, what you know, who you know, you don't get a pass. And I've learned that the hard way from having to bury friends over and over and over and over and over and to talk myself out of

you're not worth it. It would be easier for them if you weren't here and letting the demons get the better of me. Like it's a constant dance. Like when people say, oh, well, you know, Jake, you probably take a lot of pressure off. You just work on your work and life back. balance. Because it's, you just got to find your balance. Okay, here's some news. There is no balance. It's a constant dance. You're constantly trying to figure it out. It's just like our enemies in Iraq, Afghanistan, like it's, we change our taxes, they change theirs, we change ours, they change theirs,

we change ours, it's a constant dance. It's never finite, right? Nothing is. That's one of the things that makes life worth living. I don't want to wake up tomorrow and know what tomorrow has in store for me. What's the point? I just want to wake up and love and be loved all the way, not halfway. Be hot or be cold. If you're lukewarm, get the hell out of my foxhole. I don't want to fight with you.

Let's talk about when you went on deployment now. So it's 2004 is when you. deploy like the summer of 2004? Yeah. And where do you guys deploy to? So we, our primary A.O. Was the Sunni triangle of our rack. Beautiful, beautiful place.

Yeah. We landed in Kuwait. We were only in Kuwait. I think they called it Camp Victory, maybe. I can't remember the name of it. It was before the Pizza Hutts and Subways and all that. I know that for a fact. But we go, we landed Kuwait. We're only there for a couple of days. and we get on the bird and I'll never forget this. We were on the tarmac in Kuwait getting ready to fly over Al-Assad. And I think, if I'm not mistaken, it was, I think we were on the first three C-130s we got on, we had to get off of because they weren't mechanically sound or whatever.

Or just Gunny just felt like screwing with us. Who knows? But we had to get off of them, but it wasn't Gunny. Because I remember the fourth one, and we're all sweating our asses off. Yeah, it's August. It's miserable. Yeah. Miserable.

And I remember the fourth one, I don't know if it was the crew chief, the loadmaster, whoever, but Gunny took someone somewhere, and I'm pretty sure it was a conversation pretty much like if this bird doesn't take off. You're not going to go home alive anyway. Because it sucked. I mean, we were all, I mean, we have everything on. Yeah. You know, and we're frontline Marines, so we're geared out. And stuff we'll never use, ever.

But it was on the gear list. Yeah, yeah. Got to have it. Yeah. And so we, but we ended up landed in Alasad. And I remember when we got off the bird and I was thought, and I thought to myself, Man, 29 pounds wasn't that bad.

Wasn't that bad. Yeah. Alasada do that to you. I miss it already, you know? And so we get off and we go to our tent where we're sleeping with our bunk beds. And we start the brief the next day. And I remember we were... So is that where you guys were going to be working out of?

Were you guys actually going to be camp stationed at? Al-Assad primarily? Yeah, but I mean, rarely got to stay on Al-Azor. That's where your headquarters were? Yeah, it's where battalion was. Okay. So we start the 48-hour brief, and we're in the middle of that, and Captain walks in, we're in one of the hangers,

and you get a look on his face that something wasn't good, obviously. And it was because during the left-seat, right seat, of the unit we were placing and got hit. And they lost, I don't want to misquote it, but one of the guys I was just with this past weekend was there in that unit. We replaced 2-7. And it was, they had lost like an XO, a first sergeant, like it was bad. That's from one, like was an IED strike?

Yeah, it was IED with after action. And so, I mean, they, they, it was just a bad situation. What's after action? So they took fire, and it was not like, it wasn't an isolated event. Like IED goes and then they fight. Then they didn't hit with RPGs and something. Yeah. There's, it was, it was a gnarly situation they shouldn't have been in because it happened

in a place that was, you know, friendly. And at the time, actually, when we were over there, I don't even, I think we still call them roadside bomb. I don't even think we call them IEDs yet. I don't think we utilized that terminology yet. if I'm not mistaken. And again, I could be wrong. It's happened before.

But we, so we hear this and it, I mean, it hits us like, we're like, oh, shit, that's not good. That stuff's not supposed to happen. And so that was another big awakening moment, right? But we get ready to leave. And at this time, I'm a machine gun team leader. a little that I know I'd become leader of the React team same as QRF, quick reaction force. So we have like the 16 vehicle convoy or something, which would be a huge no-no nowadays. And I remember the surer walked by and he was like, hey, Shick, we need someone to man that pig on the lead vehicle.

And get behind the 240 on the lead vehicle. And I was like, who's going to jump on that pig? and we were just in brief hearing about guide wires. They'd put guide wires across the road trying to decapitate gunners. I had left my first deployment in, I want to say, April or May of 2004. This is right before. And I was just trying to think if we were using the term ID, and I'm almost positive we were because I remember.

No, but you guys are special. Yeah, no, I know. But I was trying to think I remember like I'm actually envisioning a slide we caught an IED maker and And and we had all this like he had wires and he had like clocks like multiple clocks from a From like a Timers like kitchen timers and So he had wires kitchen timers all this stuff and they're like hey this guy you caught he's an innocent guy and I was like well no And they say well no he's innocent what evidence do you have and I I I I I

brought these pictures and I'm like look at the stuff that we took off this target it's all iED stuff and they were like oh okay uh but it was the first it was kind of first starting to assemble the idea that people were building these improvised explosive devices so i think we were using it but you're right might not a spread to the marine corps yet at this point we're kind of slow but it's but we're deadly it's i mean i don't we might have you know it was a long time ago that's irrelevant but um you know because roadside bombs that's just that wasn't good enough yeah so it's call it Well, if it's not,

if you don't have an abbreviation for it. Don't church it up. But we, so we, but we're out there, we have our convoy, and,

um, so I asked the guys like, hey, who's gonna go man that pig? It's crickets. I was like, oh, very well.

I got it. I looked down. I was like, hey, sir, I got it. I'm going to do it. And then, of course, like, no, no, no, no.

I'm like, no. A few, a few, a few, a few. If you, when I die, yeah. Just remember what your letter needs to say.

It's because you were of a JJ. And it was a lot more colorful language. But I jumped up there, man, and it was, look, Bucker Factor pegged, you know, pegged. Because I'm like, how do you see a guide wire? Like, can you see the guide wire? Does the sun have to be hit in a certain way? Like, what is, what am I looking for?

You know? Did you have armored Humveys? No, most of them weren't. Yeah, and did the turret? Most of them were two-door soft tops. Yeah, get some. That's what we had. The turret was the turret?

So we were in a six-ton. Oh, okay. Oh, that's better. That's more comfortable. I mean, I'd rather be in that than a Humvee if I'm in the lead vehicle. I would rather be in a harrier. But it was, but we... That's why you signed up for infantry.

That's right, yeah. And we hate it. And, you know, the pilots, it was... like they're a bunch of prima donnas. And we'd see him come in and land and go to their air-conditioned cans. And they were like, you know, they're eating steak and shrimp. And, you know, they're all comfortable and they're on their sleep number bed. It's like, you know, you make all this stuff up in your head.

Dude, I'll tell you what, you made that up in your head. We had a World War II pilot on here, Jim Kunkle. And he was literally saying, like, hey, The war in Europe, for me, he was a P-38 pilot. He's like, my missions were like at like 45 minutes. He's like, then I was back and I was back at base. Now, of course, those 45 minutes were pretty sketchy. He ended up getting shot down.

But, you know, a lot of missions that he did is exactly what you said. That's the reality of being a pilot. That's the reality of it. Yeah, it's, you know, and then, but until you need them. Oh, God, yeah. Well, yeah, of course. And then the first time that happens, you're like, oh. I get it.

Yeah, we need those guys. Yeah, for sure. You know, but it's interesting because as a line guy, you know, there's a grunt. I mean, you're trained from day one. Every other job in the United States military is to support you. That's true. You know, you're trained that, which I'm not, I mean, I won't say if I agree or disagree

with it now, because it's like I tell civilians, like, look, think of the military as a giant will with a lot of spokes. Combat guys are like, a super small portion of one spoke. Yeah. It takes a lot of moving parts to make this machine turn. That's true. And so it's, rather it's in support, like, listen, I'm over that.

I don't need, I don't need that anymore. Like, I understand why guys think that, I understand the mindset. There's a, there's a great, I was listening to some Hackworth talking, Colonel David Hackworth and one of the things that he said, he was trying to explain how many people were in combat, in combat. in combat and it was like 10% of the troops so at the peak of Vietnam there was 560,000 people in country in Vietnam and like 50,000 of them were actually engaged in combat at that at any one time and that's you know probably a pretty good figure a lot of the World War I world two

World War II statistics are the same it's like 10 to one there's 10 support people for every one person that's gonna like close close with and destroy the enemy you know it is yeah and I mean it's, I would never look at a supply guy or, of course, when I was in, I did it all the time. I'm like, hey, poog, don't you have some pogue you bait or whatever. The stupid shit is that you say. But like, I see him now and it's like, hey, man, I appreciate your. It's like, oh, well, I couldn't, I didn't do anything like. And I'm like, hey, first of all, there is no Richter skill on pain and suffering.

You know, what makes it unique is that it's unique to the individual. You can't grade it So like you're You know You're sprained ankle When you were You roll your ankle Playing basketball during your lunch hour

How do you know that didn't hurt as bad Is my fibby and tibia coming out of my left leg It might have I'm going to question you a little bit on that one But The point of the big How the hell do we get talking about this? Hey

Support people in the military they do a great job, then we wouldn't, the front line troops wouldn't be able to do anything without them. That's what I'm saying. And vice versa.

If the frontline troops weren't there, the support people would have no job. That's the attitude I always had. And we were a team that had the cover and moved together. And if the intel people didn't supply the intel, and if the CBs didn't build the bases and keep the generators running,

and the combat engineers, we're not clearing, I mean, it's like, it takes a trap. Yeah, exactly. And so that's my point. You know, it's like, listen,

if you're still in and you're in, and you're in a non-combat role, be proud of what you're doing. Yeah, no doubt. You know, I have guys that I meet now, and they say, well, I was in from, you know, 84 to 90, and I never did anything.

I was like, hey, you did what your country asked you to do. Yeah. You know. Like, stop with that mindset, man. You've been conditioned, just to call it what it is, by guys like I used to be, to believe you didn't do anything.

Okay, well, the more mature me, still pretty dumb, mature me is here to tell you, thank you for carrying the flag before I did. Yeah. Yeah. That's another point is like, who is going to train you? Who's the D.I.'s that put you through boot camp and who's the guys that train them in 1984, right? You know what I mean?

It's like, yeah. It's a long chain. It's a gift that keeps on giving, you know? And it's, but he served. You're doing more than most. Yeah. You know, you're doing more than most. Be proud of that fact.

And so, but I remember to be. and we leave the wire for the first time in al-Assad. So we had guys driving the six-ton that were motor-tie guys that weren't our guys. So I didn't know him. And it was like a, I don't know if he was like a Lance Cooley. And then there was like a staff sergeant in the A-driver's seat. And I'm up on the turret, right? And so I'm just like, all right, you know, whatever.

And so we come out of the gate and we bang a left. and we're headed to our first checkpoint, which by the way, the Iraqi National Guard and Iraq police knew what our checkpoints were, when we were leaving, when we were going to get there. So that's awesome. Yeah, because, you know, there's some really, really smart people in D.C. that thought that was a good idea. And, yeah, so that, obviously that standard operating procedure didn't last real long

because we knew it was a bad idea. and but you know word had to get back to them like hey bombs and stuff like just follow us everywhere we go it's weird it's almost like they know we're going to be there imagine that

you know and so I remember like it took some type of contact right and I'm lead vehicle and the dude and the driver stops on in the middle of a bridge and I distinctly remember in training

Do not stop on a bridge And so I'm telling this dude Like get off the bridge And he's like looking at the staff sergeant German saluting like what I He's yelling at me And so I start kicking him in his helmet Like get off the bridge

And the staffsword didn't it Stafford's like dude just get off the bridge Sounds like a good idea Yeah And so it was I eye cap chick corpus yeah we got off the bridge and i'm like hey genius how do you know that that thing wasn't going to blow don't stop on a bridge ever you're motor tea i'm just shocked that someone

didn't tell you don't stop on a bridge because you're you're sitting duck yeah and it's like that was my like welcome to iraq moment when it was um And man, we just started everything after that pretty much just blurs together until the day that we got told that we were going to go to Dool-Lub, which was for all intents of purposes, an ammo dump was pretty much what Dool-Lab was. And that's where we were, you know, the insurgents were going to get unexploded ordinance. And, I mean, thousands and thousands of RPGs, you know, AKs, 7.60 rounds, mortars, I mean, thousands. We had the combat engineers out there all day, every day blowing stuff. I mean, they just couldn't blow it quick enough because we would find so many of these weapon caches everywhere. It was insane.

And so, but we go through, we get up to the point of, I guess it's a little after a month that we're there and we get the order that we're going to go to Doolab, which for most of us was like, okay, we can breathe. kickback time, relax. I had a bad feeling about it. Right my gut. As soon as they told us, I heard Doolob and I knew it was our turn to go and secure the perimeter Doolob. I had a, I got a bad feeling in my gut, didn't know what it was. And so my role was when I left, when I left the States, and I told my family, hey, listen, here's the deal. Don't send me anything. Don't write me. I'm not going to write you. Don't watch the news and no news is good news. I'll see you in seven months. Because in my mind, I had a job to do, and I didn't need them in my head with their

first world bullshit. And because my family puts the Jerry and Springer, and so definitely didn't need that. And so that was my mindset. But we were told we're going to do a lot, and so I get this weird feeling on my gut. And I'm like, damn, I don't know what that is. It's the night before we head out and, you know, I get a shower and a hot shower, and I'm walking back to our tent from the shower trailer, and I walk by Gunny.

And Gunny, he was a salty Gunny, man. I mean, he was like a 23-year gunny. He earned it. And I loved him, man. Everybody loved them. You know, and he was one of those guys where if you tell him good morning and he doesn't tell you, like, if you don't hear something back, like, go F your mom.

If you hear, like, good morning back, he's pissed about something and it's going to be a long day but if you're like go after mom you're like sweet he's in a good mood he's just he was that guy you know and

everybody loved him everybody respected him because he demanded it and he commanded it because he would be the first guy if it pops off he's going to be right there he's not ducking behind anything he's the dude

walking up and down the line smoking a cigar. That's that gunny. He's that guy and it was just an abundant amount of respect he had. Even if you hated him, you love to hate him. But I love the dude because it was, for me, he was what the Marine Corps meant as one individual. And I dug that about him. I was like, I need to be around him.

all the time. I want more of what's in his head and mine. I can learn a tremendous amount from this guy. And so I'm walking back into the tent. He's in front of the tent. And I said, good evening, Gunny. And I walked by and he didn't say anything. He grabs, like, the back of my skippy shirt and pulls me back towards him,

and he hugged me. And he said, I love you, Shick. And I was like, I don't know what do with my hands? Like, I'm, like, what do I do? Do I say it back? is this a trap? What do I do? And so I was like, screw it, man.

I mean, I've been dirty before. I love you, too, guns. I mean, I'll never forget. He just looked at me right in my face and just said, you're going to be all right. So rather that. So then I was like, okay, something's not right. At this point, I'm 100% convinced something's not right.

I didn't know what it was, but I knew it wasn't right. So I broke my cardinal role and went to the phone tent, called my family, and the last person I called was my dad. And you know, you have the two, three second delay. And I knew it was about 10.30 at night in Shreveport, Louisiana. And I knew he was home alone because my stepmom and my little brother were at the ranch of San Antonio. And he answers the phone. And I said, hey, pop. And he knew it was me because I'm the only kid that calls him pop.

first words out of his mouth were why am I talking to you it's almost like he knew that I knew something wasn't right and I said I just wanted to tell you how much I love you and what you you being my father means to me as your son because at this point in our life and our journey his father and son was that's pretty much where it ended he was my dad I was a son that was it because My older brother, he was born and God just touched his forehead and said athlete. And my dad was a baseball player. My brother's baseball player, I always hated it. I was like, that is the slowest sport known to mankind.

It's like watching paint dry. And so I always, growing up, felt like I was always chasing my brother. I was chasing this unbelievable athlete that I was never going to be better then. when it came to athleticism no matter what sport but I was chasing that and then I was like okay well I'm gonna go play baseball

to try and appease my dad to show them like hey I can do this too I can do and I sucked I was never any good at it you know football knowing now baseball is an art almost it's a calculated art

whereas with football if you can run into another human with 100% focus and a hundred percent will of breaking that man's will by making your body collide with his as hard as you can, you can play football. To a certain extent, you can play football. Well, I did, I loved it because for me, it was an outlet of the aggression that I had. It's a kid growing up in the antithesis of the cookie cutter childhood.

And so at this point that I'm leaving, you know, my father and I was, we weren't where I felt like we should be as father and son. You know, it was just, this is a conversation that I've had with my dad since, obviously, and so he, when I told them,

like, I just want you to know. It's important that you know how much I love and respect you. And how much I owe you for being there when you were dealt a shitty hand and you had us kids on your own. and you leaned in you leaned in and you bowed up

and I owe you till I die I'll owe you and I needed you to know that and so he said how long is this pension I said nine days and he knew not to ask

where are you going what are you doing because the people that listen to every phone call would your call would be over and he said I bet I want to hear from

you in nine days. He said, I better hear from you nine days. I said, you will pop. I love you, man. And he just said, I love you too. And ended with, you better be okay. And I hung up. And it was one of those moments where I was like, as a, at the time, I'm 21, 21 years old.

And I realize I have no control over anything. Nothing. I feel like I think I can I think I have control and protecting my team and making sure my team's okay I have no control over anything It was one of those human moments

where I realized I'm just as vulnerable as everyone else There's nothing special about me I can be the biggest, strongest, toughest It doesn't matter It does not matter because when it's your time, it's your time.

That's it. Doesn't matter what you know. It doesn't matter how well trained you are. If God pulls your card, you're done. And so it was a very, very sobering and humbling moment for me. And we left out the next morning to go to Dullab. We get out to Doolob and we start patrolling the perimeter. and if a React was called, of course, me and the React team,

which me and nine Marines would go to wherever the React is. But I always had that heavy feeling in my gut that it didn't affect my job. It didn't affect our day-to-day operations and what we were doing, but I knew something was coming. And then one night we had two guys come in the main gate, and they were in like a white opal. pulled in the main gate and pretty much just laid down on both sides of the car. Obviously not normal behavior.

Well, these guys were high-profile targets that once we find out who they are in Radio Battalion, they're like, hey, don't let them out of your sight. And so we ended up having, and for the React team, we had two-door soft-top on Vs. That's what we had to operate in. And the guy, we had one guy in the back of one vehicle, another guy in the back of the second vehicle. They both had empty MRI boxes duct taped on their head because we were out of hoods. And so improvised adapt and overcome. And, you know, had them hog, they weren't growing anywhere.

Well, so the Iraqi National Guard also got to be on the same net frequency as us, radio frequency. So they're hearing all the transmissions. Next thing you know, they show up. and there's a lot of them. And they pull in and circle us. Obviously, you show a force. And say, you know, these guys, same thing you went through about the IED maker, the bond maker. You know, these guys, they're no threat.

These guys are good. You need to let them go. Like, no, no. And I remember one of the guys that was like the colonel of the Iraqi National Guard. And he said, well, you need, the interpreter. there and I remember I'm saying something along the lines of we need to take a direct order from a superior officer and we were like hey bro I don't know if you've been working with the army or whatever well we don't give a shit who you are because we know that you're probably a bad guy

so no they're not leaving and that situation got super gnarly super quick and I was thinking to myself like I remember telling one of the guys that had a nine to one of the dudes's head, and I told him if he so much of sneezes, I'll push his brains on the side of his head. And I could hear that Beretta 9-mill. I could hear it rattling because it was, I'm sure it was from pre-Vietnam, as Marines, you know, and I could hear, but I could hear the slide rattling against the barrel. And I was like, dude, that dude is shaking hard.

But I knew if that dude so much just sneezed. I knew it would happen. And so we were, by the grace of God, we had, because we were part of weapons platoon, but weapons company, it just got done doing a cordon knock or whatever they were doing. And they're listening to this transmission over the net. And so we're talking with battalion saying like, hey,

this is escalating. and there's about 65 of them and 10 of us, so they were heavily outnumbered, obviously. But we need some serious shit is going to go down. And so weapons company pulls in, I don't even remember if it's an hour later, three hours, it seemed like a freaking eternity. But they pull in and make a circle around the I and G.

Good times. Bro. And, of course, the weapons company are the ones with, you know, the Mark 19s, 50 cows, AT4, we had AT4s too, but I mean they had all the big, you know when they pull in, you know like, okay, those guys have big stuff that obviously goes bang a lot. And so these guys pulled in and it was almost in unison, the Iraq National Guard guys dropping their AKs, hands in the air, no Mista, no Mista. And I was like, yep, those are our homies. you know like so let's and so those guys they take them and take them back to al-a-sad and you know and then they they popcorn fart disappear there's gone i mean i'm sure some

super secret squirrel agency came in and got them or whatever but we finally go to bed down and um i go up to the command post and doc was up at the command post it was his turn to sit in the vehicle that powers the command post and it was his turn to count the flares long euphrates and when was it shot what color was it and then we turned into intel and then they try and crack code decipher code and so we was talking to doc and telling them like you know like hey man this was not he's like I know I was listening to it on that that was crazy and so I I can barely keep my eyes open at this point drill and it's worn off and as you know No, series of high, high, series of low lows, no gray area.

That's what being a grunt is and being a warfighter is. And so I, doodak, I got to bed down and smoke. He said, go bed down, no worries, man. And so I go and take my boots off and I'm so tired. I take my boots off and lay on my cot. In Iraq being Iraq, especially in 2004. not even 20 minutes later. I mean, my dogs didn't even start to breathe.

React. And I'm like, hey, Murphy, you're a dick. You know, it was like if... That's the way Murphy works. Dude, not a fan. Not a fan of that Murphy. And so, you know, I wake up, and I'm like, all right, got to wake up team.

So I rub their backs and whisper sweet nothing's in their ear because that's how we do it. And we... these guys, they're all pissed. Like, you know, this is a bunch of bullshit. Like, hey, man, it's because it's, it's the paycheck. That's why we do it. What was the call that came in?

What was going down? It was, I think it was someone in our, someone had gotten in the AO wasn't supposed to be in the AO and, you know, neutralized threat type thing. And I, so I get up and I'm, I'm carrying, I think, I slide my boots on any time yet. And I walk out of the tent. As soon as I walk out of the tent, that feeling I had in my gut went right in my throat.

It rose right into my throat. And I knew we're about to get hit. I knew, as sure as I was that the sun was going to come up, I knew we were going to get hit. I didn't know how bad it was going to be. I didn't know by what. I didn't know to the extent, but I knew it was going to happen. and so I by the

I took measures and did things that I otherwise wouldn't have done and you can call it my grandfather talked to me from beyond the grave you can call it God and call it whatever you want

and good news is is that I can have my beliefs and you can have yours and odds are we're not going to get our heads cut off because we live in a free society and so I my commanding officer was out there

to do a report on what it went down the night before he's sleeping and but I knew he had a bomb blanket and so I took the bomb blanket out of the pasture seat of the one of the only up armored umbies we had at the time and I went to the lead vehicle and I told the driver scoot over the lead vehicles to this day a great friend of mine put the bomb blanket down and I told the guy's button up if they gave it to us for protection but put it on now which I usually wasn't real hardcore about just because when it's a hundred

20-something degrees and you have all that gear on. More gear is not optimal to the whole being comfortable thing. And I mean, I'm sure the guys knew something was up. And then I take the radio from the RO and everything's buttoned up. You know, Flag Jacket, Kevlar, Wiley X's Shatterproof. They should have said kind of. Shatterproof And then

It's the growing protector They gave it we had it on And so I I get on the horn with my right arm I'm driving on my left I gassed it And so you're driving I'm driving

I'm driving And Just because I And you put the bomb blanket Under the driver's seat And so I don't know It was just reaction

I mean it was something was guiding me to do all these things. You know, I'm not, I can't tell you what the lot of numbers are. Like, I can't tell, I don't have ESPE. ESPE, I'm not a fortune teller. Like, something was guiding me to do these things. And you just put that bomb blanket under there just because you did. Just because something told me put it in the driver's seat and get in the driver's seat.

Take the radio. I did all these things. I punch it. Three minutes later, we had a triple stack. Pressure plate ignited. So 3155 Mike's. And layman's terms, what that means is the big ass bomb. Yeah, that's about, what, 75 pounds of explosives?

It's a lot. It's a freaking big. Blew up directly beneath me. Blew me about 30 feet at the top of the Humvee. Stuck the landing with my head. Because, again, Marines, believe in good form. And I like to say because God's a comedian, I never lost conscience. I never went into shock.

I remember the whole thing. Took the Black Hawk, 42 minutes, come get me. So I love to look at people when they're like, it's such a long day at work today. Like, really? Hold on, let me throw some perspective your way. But that's only when I'm in a bad mood. But it was, I knew midair.

It was bad. I knew it was bad. I knew this was not good at all. And when I hit the deck, I couldn't breathe because the as you know the series of prevents an explosion

a million things happened in a nanosecond especially when it's that big of an explosion and so it was when the dashboard

disengaged and the steering will hit me in my chest and exploded all my mags hit me in my chest and temporary collapse

both my lungs before I was blown out a whole series of things happened before during this process causing injuries and and I hit the deck and I knew I'm hurt bad.

I can't breathe. Can't hear anything. It was just ringing. And first thing I do is talk to God. First thing I did, the poor I even did self-assessment. Is it talk to guys. I can't see out of my right eye thanks to this shatterproof while he exists. But because they shattered, both of them, by the way.

Yeah, there's... There's something called a triple stacked IED. I don't know what glass is going to hang with that. Well, I'm saying, hey, listen, man, false advertisement, right? Got it. You got it. But we, they're a great company. I'm just, you know, got to find light in every situation.

But we, but I talk to God right away. This is exactly what I said. Hey, big man. I know this is bad. All I'm asking is that you don't take me in front of my family. It's all I'm asking. don't let my brothers watch me die as soon as this kids leave the deck

I'm all yours just please don't let my brothers watch me die that's all I cared about and I started the self-assessment which starts with checking your junk the only thing that worked was my right arm everything else is shattered or broken

come to find out all my ribs are broken so that didn't help anything and so I go I moved my growing flap and check my junk and I was like, okay, that's there. Everything else is bandatable. Like we're... We'll work through. We will survive.

And, but then I looked at my right leg looked normal, but my right foot and ankle hurt really bad. So it's like, okay, it's probably broken. Well, I didn't know. It was crushed. It was the firewall and the Humvee folded up. crushed my right foot before I was blown out. My left, I looked at my left arm, and I remember seeing, like, daylight through my left arm. Part of my left hand was hanging down by my elbow.

So I was like, okay, that's, might not keep the left arm. And I looked down at my left leg, which was turned outward. Like, if you're sitting down with both legs, like you're going to touch your toes, my left leg was turned outward to the left. and my foot was inverted like with my toes pointing at me. And my boot was blown off. But my, but everything was there. It was all over the place,

but it was there. So I saw my fibia, my tibia, saw all the damage that was done to my left leg because my camis were shredded. And I thought two things when I saw that. First thing I thought was that's not supposed to be like that. Second thing I thought was

that that was confirmation that that was a very big explosion. To be able to blow a laced up combat boot off your leg and not take your leg with it is a massive explosion. It's crazy. And so at this point, I'm thinking, how was the guy in the guy in the passenger's? Blown eardrums was the other worst injury. Yeah, man. So it literally blew up straight up, directly beneath me. Yeah, straight and straight up. They must have it buried a little bit enough that it just projected right up into you. Yeah. And it was, so that standoff we had the night before, it's when they buried it.

So all that was was a diversion, because everyone was glued to the radios. You know, so it was, and it was in a perfect spot. It was the one spot around that entire area of operation that you couldn't have eyes directly on, the one spot. Yeah. And so at this point, the guys finally make it up to me. And really there's a lot of freaking out. Did the Humvee move? Oh, yeah, it was blown.

So did it get blown up? Yeah, but it was, I'll tell you this, if we were in an up-armored Humvee, everyone of this would be dead. From overpressure? Yeah, absolutely. That had been nowhere for it to go. Everyone would have died. It would have been, but it was blown.

up and over to the right. And second vehicle wasn't affected. But the guys run up to me. At this point, I'm back to telling God, like, hey man, just remember our deal. Just remember our deal. And the guys are like, hey, Shick, we got you, bro. We got you.

You know, we got you hanging tough And out of nowhere I was able to take a breath And the first thing I said was developed 360 And they were like, oh shit, yeah It's like, yeah No shit What's coming next?

Yeah, how do we know we're not about to start taking fire? Which probably was unlikely Because there was no cover in that I mean there would have been nowhere for him to hide And it would have been a suicide mission on their part because we had one still very functional 240 and we knew how to employ that weapon but they get me back on the second vehicle

which was like I said still operational and get me back up to the command post and man and little did I know that that's that at that moment that's when my battle my personal war started right then that day and I get up there and

And doc, same doc that I was talking to that was in the, the umbia, counting the flares. It was working on me. And I was, I was, I was pissed. I was not happy. And I was yelling at Doc. And it was like, Doc, you got to hit me, you got to hit me. And he was like, I already did. And so I'm like, you're, I was like, you're a stingy bastard.

because he only would hit me with two sticks of morphine, and I knew he had more, and all I knew was I was in a lot of pain. He had the remedy, and he wasn't giving it to me. And I was like, that's kind of bullshit. I didn't understand that the muscles around my lungs could relax so much I suffocate. I didn't know, didn't care. I just knew I was in a lot of pain. He had drugs, and he was not giving him to me.

A little that I know, the guy was the tip of the spirit, saving my life. and while this whole situation was really gnarly and very painful and very very humbling I wouldn't trade it at all because I got to tell every one of those guys every single one of them how much I was talking to my dad but I was talking to my brothers just got to tell every one of them how much I loved them how much they meant to me how much I respected them and that this is real what we're doing is real look at me look at me and look at me and remember this and go fight your balls off because this is what they want to do to every one of us don't let it happen again just just learn from this you have to fight for me now and that was you know it was a situation where and they kept telling men they kept telling me uh you know he shik this is your bird home it's your bird home and it would piss me off every time they said it I was like, I don't want to go home.

Shut up. I don't want to go home. You get to go see your family. You are my family. I'll see them when it's time to see them. You know, it was that. So there was this whole series of thoughts and emotions. And, you know, I mean, it was everything from laughing and crying, everything in between to laughing again.

And they were scrambling to get the Medevac there. And the problem was. that we didn't have any fighter escorts, and it took forever because they were all dispatched so four. I mean, they were all scrambled. And so it was finally it was a Texas Army Air National Guard pilot that heard the transmission that, you know, this Marine out of Texas, category four, rapidly approaching category five. So category four's urgent surgery category five being expectant.

And he finally got his crew and said, screw the rule. were going to get this Marine. I mean, he loaded, he came and got me. And, um, I remember the guys were loaded me on the Black Hawk and my

Patoon Sergeant, it was the last one on. And, man, that was, that was, that was an emotional experience, dude,

because it was, anyway, the Ptune Sergeant son, and he kisses me on my forehead. And he says, we'll see you soon, Jack. London because he always called me Jack London

because my first generation Marines is Jack London and Chick, second generation is Jack London, Chick Jr. So he always called me Jack London because I guess Jake wasn't good enough. But when he said it, he was trying not to cry. And I could tell on his eyes he was lying. Which kind of motivated me. And I was like, well, I'll show you.

I'm going to prove you wrong. And you are going to see me again. Even though it wasn't my choice. right and so the the bird takes off man and um out of everything i've been through from day one to now that was the hardest moment hands down no questions asked was leaving those guys hands down that was the hardest moment because that's when i was taught just how human i am and just how irrelevant I am. And it was a very, very hard experience to leave my family in harm's way, and there wasn't a damn thing I could do about it.

You talk about being humbled. That will humble you. And we get up in the air, and I'm able to get the attention to one of the litter crew who's a young dude. I mean, again, I'm 21. He was probably 18, 19, but middle. the three years. That's eons. And he comes up and he gets right, he puts his left ear right

in front of my face. And I yelled as a lot as I could, because as you know, on the back of one of those birds, you don't have a headset on you can't hear shit. And I yell as far as I could, how long. And I remember when I did it, I felt life leave my body. I knew I was dying. Did they tourniquet you already? Did Doc

turnip? Yeah, over and over. Yeah. I mean, I was bleeding everywhere. Yeah. Did you have shrapnel wounds? Yeah. So it was not just your leg and your arm. You're bleeding down everywhere. I had a trap on my chin, side of my face, my neck, every, when your right arm, left arm, left leg.

It was bad. And had I not had that sappy plate in, my flak, I'd have been dead. There was a piece of, there was a piece sticking out that was bigger than this C-Bore, sticking out right out of the center. And my gunny took pictures of my... my gear. Damn. Showing guys like,

hey, no matter how uncomfortable you are, this is why you don't cut corners. Yeah. And, um, but this dude on the litter crew radio is up front of the captain and he comes back and he

yells in my right ear, 12 mics, as loud as he can, or 12 minutes. And so I was, I immediately talked to God again. Right away. Like,

a big man. I'm going to have to renege on that original verbal agreement because I'm pretty sure I can do 12 more minutes. And obviously he gave me that because I'm talking to you. But we go and we landed in Belaad, which is just a makeshift-filled hospital at the time. I'm sure you remember from seeing the 04, but it was, man, they pulled me off the bird and immediately, immediately start working on me. I mean, and it was, I was not happy about this situation because they kept.

saying name rank social name rank social name rank social because they wanted to be alert nowhere you know and i knew what they were doing and i was like but it's like if you slam your finger in the door right and your buddies right there and he's like hey are you okay are you okay are you okay and every time they say it the pain goes up like i would be golden if you would just shut your gapper you know and so i just yelled finally and pointed with my right arm was the only it worked It was that, hey, it's tattooed right there on my ribs. I'm done talking. Like, I'm going to show them, right?

And I didn't, and so I didn't talk again until they get me in the tent. And they loaded me up with some of the good shit because I felt it definitely helped the pain, but I was still a massive amount of pain. And I'll never forget one of the surgeons was slowing up my face, and he said, oops. And I looked at it, I was like, hey, what do you mean, oops, doc? And he was like, hey, sorry, Marine, I digged up on your stitches when I started again. And I said, hey, doc, at this point I have the sheet up to my neck. I said, hey, doc, I don't know if you've seen my body from the neck down, but I'm fairly certain the scratches on my face are the least of our worries.

And I think he had the, the Ns that's not me out at that moment because that's the last thing I remember until I was woken up by Nurse Jacks, who she had told me, she woke me up and you know i'm coming out of the or and um and that's still in the lab yeah and she says um hey marine i'm sorry to tell you this we had to take your right foot it was dead when you got here there's no blood flow and it was crushed and i remember thinking to myself like shit they took the wrong foot because it was my left one that was really messed up and so then i think like you know it's good enough for government work right whatever And I'm just, it's, it's, it's, I'm just like, you know, the long day just got longer. So you're completely contorted and twisted and backwards, left foot was, was the one that made it.

Yeah. And the one that looked pretty normal to you. It looked completely normal with my boot on, looked everything like normal. But then she described it to me. She said, when we, when you got here, imagine like a surgical glove, but in the shape of a, as opposed to a hand being filled with sand. That was your right foot. She said everything, it was everything and it was completely crushed.

It was to the point to where there was, it cut off the blood supply. And so somehow, none of my major arteries in my left arm or left leg got hit. And so there was still hope for my left leg and my left arm. but um she ended up we ended up loading up um on the bird to go to germany and she flew with me to germany because i was i was not out of the woods by any stretch it was going to be a this was going to be a long and arduous recovery process and i remember getting to um germany i don't know i'm sorry before we left this was four days after i talked to my my dad so i called my dad from the sat phone. They had given me and my dad entered the phone and um I said hey pop and he said why am I

talking to you I said they got me he said what do you mean they got me said they got me dad and I'm hurt he said how bad are you hurt so they'd take my right foot there's a pause and then he said are you going to make it and I said I don't know he said we're waiting for 30 Green and you know we'll meet you in Germany and at this point man I'm I'm not four-year-old kid again that just needs his dad and I'm the last thing I told him was I was I love him but right then I said please hurry and he said it's gonna be all right I love you love you too that was the hardest phone call I've ever made in my life because I just see him at my eyes old graduation saying why would you do that?

And I'm like, damn it. You know, damn it. You may have had something there. Like, and I'm still thinking like a young immature kid, but I knew one thing I wanted my dad. And so I get to Germany and one of my best friends from high school was a little brother who was like my little brother growing up, was in the army.

And he was a scout. And he was there in Germany and was able to get word that I was on my way and he was right there when the ambulance doors open and he put his head on my chest and he lost it started bawling and I just remember him telling him it's all right Josh it's all right man and you know he just kept saying not you not you not you and he wouldn't leave my side you know but he had a cell phone and I got to call other people and even when they're trying to take me to the OR to wash me out and reset my left leg and left arm

and redo the external fixators. He was like, he's walking right next to the bed like he's going into the OR with me. And I remember them saying like, so you can't and he was like, the hell I can't. What are you? And I was like, you can't, dude. Like, just come on, man.

They don't have no drugs for both of us. So that's, but he was, it was just, it goes to show you, man. Like, it's, there were so many experiences throughout this process that just reassured me. of how very real that something bigger than us out there is. You know, that there, you know, I was a believer growing up, man,

but this was, there was things that happened that no one could explain, that had to be from a higher power. And that was just one of them. One of those moments where I was, that was a part of me living, was Josh being there and me not having to be alone in that situation. So I ended up leaving Germany, and I was only there for, you know, I wouldn't even be there a full day before they send me to Bethesda. And I, I went, because my family was supposed to meet me in Germany,

but the turnaround was so fast that, you know, the Marines were like, no, we're just going to send you to Bethesda. And I got to Bethesda, and, man, those flights, both flights, from Iraq to Germany, Germany, to Bethesda. every little bit of turbulence every little bump every little movement

was like being blown up all over again it was gnarly because your your body was in so much pain it was just I'd never puked so much because of pain in my life

and it was one of those things where I was again every little jar every movement was just like you're as human as they come like there's nothing special about you. This is not going to get easier.

And I remember the getting there and they're waiting over by the entrance and the doors open and of course the liaison, I told my family like, hey, Jake's on the runway. They just touched down and my dad is there and I'm sure I looked amazing.

My head was probably the size of the watermelon and I was black and blue and purple and I'm sure I smelled amazing too. And my dad put his hand on my chest and he said, Bubba, is that you? And all I could get out was get your damn

hand off my chest because all my ribs were broken and it. It hurt like hell. And he looks at my family and goes, yep, that's Jake. It's Jake. And so they're rolling me on the gurney and this young sailor's pushing me and I remember every little, like in the grout that

separates tiles. Like every little bump it was like getting blown up again. And it would just make, it would take my pain from six to as much as you could think in the snap of, I mean, it was gnarly. And so I remember he's going to push me on the elevator to take me down at the ICU. And you know, the big gap that separates the floor in the elevator,

where he goes across that, and we're in the big elevator where they take the gurneys, take the patients on gurneys, and so my family's in there with us. And he goes across that bump. And this dude is so young and just, he was. the epitome of a boot. And so he goes across that gap and I knife, I knife hand with my right hand and I look up and I say, if you do that again, I'm going to take you out.

And my dad lasts and looks at the family like, he's going to be okay. You know, and like the dude's meaning to hit gaps, right? It's just, you know, the problem was is I was never trained to be a severely wounded Marine. It wasn't in the handbook. And so I didn't know what the hell to do. and let's just get this out of the way.

I was never a good patient, ever. Not one time. It was something that I just didn't have in me. All I knew to do was to be a dick and fight like hell. And when I fight like hell, I'm usually a dick. That was my survival mechanism. Now, were you just like angry? Were you angry that you were hurt and pissed off that your leg was gone?

and you're like just pissed. And so every nurse is, you're pissed at? I'm not mad. Listen, I'm not angry that my leg's gone. I'm not angry. I'm not angry. At that time. At that time, I'm not angry that my legs gone.

I'm not angry. I never did the why me. I never not, to this day, not have, I don't have, I don't believe in that. I'm angry because my family is back in a Godforsaken land fighting. And there, and here I am sucking up oxygen in a hospital bed. that's why I'm angry I'm pissed off at God because it's like

hey you had a perfectly good chance perfectly good chance then you what the hell you know what the hell that's I mean what am I supposed to do right from here

right now what am I doing I'm doing no good none that's why I was angry and I was angry because I could not contribute to what I was trained to contribute to with my brothers. Like that's, they were there

and I was back home in an air-conditioned room with a bunch of people waiting on me hand and foot. Pun totally intended. Like that, you know, that's why I was pissed. No, they couldn't understand that. Yeah. And I don't blame them for that to this day. I don't blame them

for that. But it was you know, before we were, We had a lot of guys getting hurt, a lot of guys getting wounded. And, I mean, the hospital was full of guys. I wasn't different. I wasn't special. I wasn't any better or worse or I was just a guy who had a bad day at work. So what are they doing?

What are you going through at this point? You know, obviously you're going through surgery upon surgery. Dude, it was gnarly. Yeah, I mean, it was every, for the first two and a half, I guess, months, I was home, I was in the OR every 40, 72 hours. And some of those operations were like 18, 19, 20 hour operations. And they're piecing you back together. Yeah, man, Robin for Peter, give the Paul to try and save my left leg and my left arm.

Skid and set and stuff. It was crazy. Crazy, crazy. How many surgeries do you have? Stateside had 46 and I had 23 blood transfusions. I've had a couple surgeries. I had a neck surgery and I had a hernia surgery. So when you get when I got those surgeries, right?

Like you just feel like complete crap. So you're just going through that every just like almost on a permanent level. Yeah. The anesthesia, the blood loss, all that stuff. It's just a just it's. Wake up, suck. Go to bed, repeat. It was nothing.

There was nothing fun about any of it. And, um, I mean, it was so bad that. it was like the nurses at the nurse station the night nurses i'll never forget and it happened every night they they would do paper rocks scissors to see who had to take my charge it was that bad and god forbid a psychologist walking my room god forbid it was because i was i had nothing to say to those so i'm kind of i just realized i laughed at this right and we're and you're telling it in a funny way because you're like hey I was a bad patient but the point I was getting at before like why you were angry but like we're laughing about it right now but you're not kidding like this like

you were fucking pissed right yeah and when someone come in you'd be like you know get that off me I don't want to you know what you that like just agro with people so I had this is the rule that I had as a patient you're not allowed my room unless we share DNA or are you You're your United States Marine. And that goes for the president on down. I don't give a shit. What your title is or who you are. Those are the rules.

If you don't have the same DNA as me and you're not United States Marine, don't come in my room because I'm going to let you know you're not allowed. And that was because I'm in survival mode. I'm in survival mode. And I didn't know what that looked like. I was making it up as I got as I went. And I mean, it was, it didn't matter what surgeon was talking to me,

what professional, with a bunch of letters after his or her name. I didn't care. I did not care. Because my mindset was, is like, I'm trying to figure out how to get to the next breath in the least painful way as possible. And it was something that it was, like I said, I went from being one of the most,

a part of one of the most elite fighting forces known to mankind, to not being able to use the bathroom on my own. I was in a hospital bed for months overnight I mean the drop of a hat that's not humble pie that's in hell in the factory knowing that my guys

I knew Fallujah we were already drawn the war plan for Fallujah and so it's like here I am and not broken I hate that terminology but here I am completely fractured

and these guys are hooking and jabbing and they're asking me what color jello I want. And it's like, I don't need to eat. I need to get through the next minute. And then the minute after that. Nothing else matters. Nothing.

I just need to survive second by second, minute my minute, breath by breath. And continue to believe I'm worth this thing. called life. I need to keep fighting. And a byproduct of that is that I was a giant dick, but I kept fighting. It wasn't pretty. But I kept fighting. And how long were you in Bethesda for? So I'm only in Bethesda a few months. And then they move me. As a matter of fact, my dad goes to Walter Reed. And then he comes back and he says, you know, Jake, this is your deal? And let me back up a bit. My dad and my brother are both pretty squeamish, like when it comes to blood and stuff like that. They just don't do well with it. My dad, who was an executive

bank, just retired last year, an executive banker started as a window teller to bank. He worked his way up. Did not leave my bedside for 62 days. Didn't leave my side. No matter how hard I was on him, or it did not leave my side. And I like to say that had it not been for this explosion, I would not be nearly as close to my, you can't, I don't think I could possibly be closer to my dad as I am now or my brother.

Same thing. Same relationship that before just didn't, we just didn't have it. And I think it was because there was always that alpha struggle. Whereas it had to take one of the alphas, having a thumb war with a grim reaper for everyone to say, what the hell are we doing? And why are we doing it? And that's why it's just one of the reasons.

I wouldn't trade it. Because that's beautiful, man. And I got to experience something that a lot of people don't get to experience. That they die wondering. Did I say everything I needed to say? Did I love as hard as I needed to love? I don't have to wonder about that now. Neither do they.

Love and be loved. Everything else is filler. So that's why I would not trade it. But I remember my dad telling me, with my left arm one night, they were telling me, okay, Jake, we have this, we have to reconstruct your left arm, and the bottom graft took the first time, but the top graph didn't take. And the second time, they tried doing it. I remember I woke up while they were cutting the graft off.

And that was a gnarly experience. But I was awake for like literally 0.5 seconds before they knocked me back out And did you hit anybody in that point five seconds? I tried to hit people all the time I think it was stupid I mean I messed up stitches and stables and stuff all the time And I took up I took my own out all the time I got trouble for a little How drugged up are you during this time? Dude I was on enough drugs to like kill a herd of elephants Because everybody's body reacts differently to drugs, right?

Either they accept them and you doesn't take it a lot. Well, mine fights everything. You know, I mean, which is not surprising. But if it takes you or you one pill, it's going to take me five. And so every operation I had because these were major, I mean, these were intrusive operations. These weren't like, hey, we're going to go and take the staples out of the, no, these were, we're going in, cutting you back open and we're going to power wash. this part of your body out and that mean they were intrusive operations or we're going to go and

take skin from this part of your body and put it on this other part of your body and so or we're going to take this bone out here and we're going to try and graft it over there and so it was one of those things where I knew like okay these are some serious things where for six months to a year like I didn't know if I was going to keep my left leg or my left arm because they they were I was going through all these operations to save these two appendages that were, and for all intents of purposes, I was a guinea pig for a lot of stuff, which I'm okay with. It was better me than my brothers. I'm all right with that.

Small price to pay. It would be one of the world's finest, right? And so they, I remember the night before I had this major operation on my left arm, and this was when the graph didn't take, the second one, and they were doing a bonger. graft and they amputated my right leg again to take some of the tibia from my right leg to try and graft it in my left arm because five inches of my olina and my left arm was blown out and uh my dad asked the doc on there forget it he said hey doc how'd you sleep the next morning and he said i didn't my dad said well why didn't you sleep said because i did jake's operation about a thousand

times in my head and my dad was like okay i think i'm okay with that and then I remember him asking me hey Shick do you mind if we amputate your fourth digit

on your left hand because I don't think it's going to be of any use to you and because my metacarbral was blown out from my ring finger I said if I wake up and there's anything else

cut off my body don't be on the right side of my bed because I will choke you out in front of God and everybody and he being knowing me all too well

at the time said all right I'm going to take that as a no. And everybody got a good laugh, and then they knocked me out again. So that graph didn't take. And they knocked me back out. Then they called a specialist. And so what they had to do was put me in an induced coma and cut my abdomen open and then put my left arm in my abdomen and then sewed my abdomen shut to grow skin over my left arm.

so much interestingly same Lou Polar Jr. had the same because he had severely got his hands jacked up and they did the same thing multiple times to him. Yeah and it's you know

who would have thought that's a thing you know? And then they so my dad and I had this thing where I would wake up every morning because he was always there during the day then someone else would come at night

and so I would say you know hey dad it's you know Monday April 16 whatever. And just to make sure I still had somewhat reliable cognitive function, functions going on, you know, and I'm trying to exercise my frontal lobes as much as I can, making sure these executive functions are still working the way they are because I was already told, you've got post-traumatic stress, traumatic brain injury, which I was like,

whatever, you know, that's made up stuff by people in white coats with too much time on their hands that will not affect me. I'm a marine. No. And so I'm coming out of this, this coma. That was the first time that I, my brother came in for the first time. And I remember he came in and I could see because what sucked was as early on in the induced coma. Like I could be alert, but I couldn't, obviously, couldn't say anything because I was inundated. So I had a machine breathing for me. I was completely paralyzed

from the neck down, couldn't move anything. And it only lasted for, they only did it for a day or so because it was so gnarly that my BP and everything would freak out. My blood pressure would go up and I would see someone in my family because I felt like I was trapped in my own, I'm a prisoner

in my body, somebody get me the hell out of wherever this is. So you're an induced coma, you can't move, you can't talk. Nothing. And, yeah, yet you're conscious. Yeah. Isn't the purpose of being an induced coma to be unconscious? Right. So they,

this is just prior to them inducing the coma. Oh, okay. And so it was just before it, but then my brother came in, and it was the first time that my brother had been able to see me. He was in college at the time and playing ball. And my brother came in and sat down in the chair.

So, well, first when he goes to walk in and I see him, come in the door in the ICU, and he leaves. he like took a half step in he turned around he bolted and this is the queasiness factor no I think this was

no I think it for him it was an emotion he didn't want to be emotional and me know he was emotional which I knew exactly why he had to leave the room so it's like it's absolutely you might as well just come all the way in I know what you're doing

and so but then he comes back in and he sits down in the chair on the right side of my bed and he grabs him my right hand and he puts his forehead on my hand and he just starts crying he just starts repeating over and over again thank you for not dying thank you for not dying and i was like dude anytime you want to shut up about that like it would be awesome because it was getting i mean it was getting to me right so my bp started going up and they're like hey you got to leave like you can't stay in here so then they

realized like okay we got we got to we got to knock them out yeah and because they try tap in the window so I couldn't see but then it just was too much and so they that's when they completely put me in the coma and that was for it was like 30 days or something and I remember coming out of it and telling

my dad like induced coma was for 30 days yeah oh shit to grow that around my arm and so they cut it out and then it took thankfully that was the last resort for my left arm because if that didn't take they were going to have to amputate below my elbow.

But then my dad or I wake up coming out and look at my dad my dad, it's Monday, April 16th he was like, well, no, it's, uh, what would happen was. And then I'm like,

did no one want to run this by me? It was like, no, they figured you'd be against it. So it's like, whatever, shit.

Just, uh, put it on my tab. You know, it's like, but I remember my dad going over to Walter Reed's. It was time.

My dad told them, like, hey, listen, I can afford to fly up here and see my son every week. Most of his family, because I'm still not out of the woods, most of his family can't afford to come to Maryland from Louisiana, Texas, to come, you know, see him often. And so he goes to Walter Reed and came back and he told me, he said,

Bob, this is your deal. This is, but no son of mine is going to go to that hospital. I mean, obviously, I'm going to have to take your word for it. It's not like I can skip over there and go check it out. And they said, okay, well, we had a friend that worked to the Pentagon who was a one star, and my dad, my stepmom contacted him and just said, hey, listen, we got to get Jay closer to home. And so I actually went to, they sent me to BAMC in San Antonio. And I like to say that accounts for 50% of my post from NITRES because I was the only Marine at Army facility.

And I'm sorry, I'm not sorry about that. but it was a great hospital that, you know, they did just a good work as Bethesda. But when they ship me, they moved me way too soon. I mean, my body wasn't ready for it. And we had to stop in, I believe it was called Scott Air Force Base in Illinois. Were you flying? Yeah, I'm a bird. So he's stopping Scott.

And I guess we didn't know that we were stopping. and I had only had enough medications in my nerve blockers for a set amount of time to get to San Antonio well that stuff was they wanted to do a little layover yeah so I'm pissed

I wake up when we were there and this gunny walks up to me and he was like hey hey corporate shirko welcome with Scott Air Force Base I'm Gunny Schmucketelli and I was I'm like where the hell of Scott Air Force Base and who the hell are you

because my my tact at this point has gone way out the window did not matter your rank like did not matter and because I'm at the point where I'm like what are they going to do shave my head and send me in Iraq like please you'd be doing me a favor but so I'm pissed and I call my dad and I'm like I don't know

who fucked this up but I need you to unfuck it right now and he got pissed and I was pissed at him something was out of his control you know and he was like Jake I'll fine go back to go back to Bethesda I don't care

but you know and it was you know I I was owed that and a lot more and so they get me in the hospital and my buddy just starts to shut down and so next thing I this is in the hospital it's Scott and this is not like a major hospital

They did like a legit, they stopped. Stopped. So then it's a delay for me to even go to San Antonio because. They got to get you to recover kind of. Yeah. And so that series of events happens there, which was crazy. So I go into this shock effect where I'm unconscious. And this is another one of those moments where the higher power thing, I'm coming out of it.

And my left head, my turns, my heads turned to my left. And the door to my room opens. I knew whoever was about to walk in the door. Like, I just felt like a spiritual presence. Like, I just felt, I knew whoever that was, was a person of faith. Like, person of God knew it, knew, no doubt about it, felt it when the door opened. The dude comes around the corner, introduce himself, and it's the base chaplain.

And I was like, okay, well, that's that's that. And he said, hey, I'm chaplain. And I said, I knew, I knew before I saw you, as soon as the door opened, like I felt the presence of a higher being, like I felt it. I knew it. And like this really, like he, you could tell he was moved by it. You know, I wasn't saying to blow smoke up his ass.

I just knew the dude was a man of God. And, I mean, it would, again, can't explain it. It's the whole thing, the whole word faith comes in. Look it up sometime. You got to utilize it. But the, so then he walks in and starts talking to me. So we have this long conversation of which I can't remember most of. The next day is when I'm leaving.

And he brings his whole family. He had like four or five kids and his. He brought his wife and all the nurses and, I mean, the airmen and the reserve Marines and Army guys like made this line on either side of the back doors of the bird. And it was like, like, I don't rate what you guys are doing, but appreciate it. Like, I can dig it, right? But I didn't. I was just thinking, like, it's a little much, but thank you, you know? And it was, but it was like, you know, who the hell am I to take away from their right to honor their brother?

Like, you know, who am I to do that? They're just showing love all the way, not halfway. And so, of course, me being me at the time, I didn't look at it that way. I was just like, I'm naked in front of everyone type feeling. I'm just uncomfortable right now. and so they load me up and we fly from Scott to we're going to Bamsie and we stop over and oh it was El Paso

and on the way I can see the loadmaster mouth to one of the other crewmen we're about to fly around a tornado I read his lips and I'm like hey God like come on man throw a dude a bone Like, we're about, I'm going to survive all the stuff I've survived.

And if you let me get taken out by a tornado, like, we're going to be fighting. This is bullshit. I'm just thinking, like, Murphy, back off, bro. Just back off. But it's just these little moments where you find light in these heavy situations. And I didn't know that we were stopping in El Paso. So we stopped in El Paso, and I'm pissed. Why are we stopping?

Why aren't we in San Antonio? You know, well, because we had to drop off someone who was KIA, and there's return in the body. And I was like, okay, I'm a major dick, I get it. You know, it was like, well, shit, because you had told me that, and they probably did tell me. But I'm on so many drugs. I'm going to remember about 0.2 seconds of an hour conversation I had with you. So we get to San Antonio again, my body, it was bad. I mean, my body does the same thing.

It did at Scott. and then the next thing I know I'm in the ICU again and now the OR. And I end up doing 15 months in BAMC. And, man, every operation, it was just more drugs, more drugs, more drugs, more drugs. A series of events happens at BAMPSI. I'm the only Marine there, which I stated. It was bad because, I mean, you can only call a Marine a soldier so many times before I'm going to let you know that that bothers me.

And if I wanted to be a soldier, I would have joined the freaking army. Stop calling me a soldier. It's just a Marine thing. It's a pride thing. Absolutely a freaking pride thing. If you don't like it, would you call Chesty Pillar a soldier? Because if you would, you're ignorant. And my thing was, is like, just utilize some tact.

And so they ended up putting the EGA, the Marine Corps, seal. on my door. And just to let people know. A little heads up. Yeah. Same rules, though. You don't share my DNA? And you're not United States Marine.

Don't come in my room. Still. So I didn't meet. I missed out on meeting a lot of quote, unquote, famous people and and politicians that I'm sure they're because they care and a bunch of other people. And it was because of that rule. and then the secretary of the army or the the surgeon in general i'm sorry surgeon general's coming and they were like corporal shake we really you know we need you to wake up and shave and you're

going to come see the sergeant general and i was like okay yeah yeah i'm going to do that obviously i didn't and so i have people coming out to my room and they're like corporal sheck the surgeon general is downstairs you were supposed to be in your electric wheelchair down there meeting him and I'm like, what part of my face says I give a shit that they're here? I don't even know if it's a man or woman and I don't care. If they want to see me, you know where my room is. Do I go to his or her office and say, hey, I'm going to need you downstairs because I'm coming. No.

No, I don't. They're a person just like me. Except they probably, something tells you that pain level is probably not where mine is right now. And no, I'm not going to shave either. So you can just eat a whole bag of dicks because I don't care. And so, again, great patient. A really, really good patient. So you're, the drugs at this point that they're putting you on,

it's all kind of painkillers. Massive. And is there any point where you start realizing like, oh, I'm not going to be okay without these things? I want them all the time. Not once. No, at this point, no. So you're just thinking.

thinking that's just the way it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, look, I'm badly wounded. I need painkillers. Part of the game, right? Part of the game. And so at this point, I'm thinking, I have, this is probably operation like 35, 36,

and it's so bad that they have me, now I'm having to recover in the ICU after every operation because they're having to monitor my breathing and my heart rate because I'm on so many drugs. And so at this point, they've given me what they, feel like okay we cannot just give them more of any we can't give them more dilatidemoral or fentanyl or etc etc and so they give me uh this was the first time that i had experienced after one of these operations ketamine and i was such a it's just bad because the guy comes in to start administering

the ketamine and uh i'll never forget this and he goes he starts to administer it through my one of my IV that comes into my pick line. And he says, you feel it yet? Like, nope. Keep pushing. Fill it yet? Nope.

I started to fill it the second time he asked. But I was like, nope. It's like, oh, all right. Feel it yet? Nope. Nothing. This time, I definitely fill it. But I'm lying because, again, if one pill's good,

I bet you 10's awesome. My mindset, right? So the fourth time you asked me, I'm like, oh yeah, all right, I fill it. And he was like, okay, because I don't think I've ever given anyone that much. But they say your tolerance is really, really high, so, you know, it is what it is. Well, I mean, I started, I mean, the door didn't even shut all the way, and I started hallucinating my balls off.

I am on so much catamine. And on the street, apparently the street terminology for a special K. And I didn't even know, like, that was a thing. and it was it was gnarly I mean I was seeing things that weren't there it was bad

and I and I came out of that and I told my lead physician that came I said don't ever I don't want that stuff anymore like that was not like that was not a cool high like it was bad

I don't like it and they're like well we're going to have to put you back in the ICU I was like I do not care I'll live in the ICU it's not like I'm in the bits, okay? If I'm in the ICU or I'm in this room with four other dudes,

like it doesn't matter, whatever, right? And obviously I develop a bit of a reputation at BAMC, and I'm attached to fourth recon that was there at the time, and it's right out, right by BAMC, and

there's one Marine there that the day I got there, he was right there. It was a staff sergeant at the time, and he told me when I got there he was like, hey, brother, I'm going to come see you every day. I'm in this with you. Well, so did the, I don't remember if he was the first Arnold Sartner Major at the time,

said the same thing. Well, there was a lot of cameras there, you know, CNN and Fox and crap because I'm, you know, the only Marine or an facility, got some attention. And so that guy says the same thing. Well, I didn't see him again, but the first guy, the staff sergeant,

every day man every day and he he started like he would walk in and like tickle where my right foot should be and it would tick it was crazy because it would tickle

and it would like Vic come on bro and he would just laugh and laugh he thought it was the best thing ever and it was just those little moments though those little nuances of time that would light make me forget that I was who I was and I was in the situation I was in

that would make me realize, you know, if I think it's that bad, I would get, when I was able to get mobile, I remember actually I was in isolation when Ty showed up. It was the second Marine at Bansy. And they told me, hey, there's another Marine on deck. He's getting, he just got here, but they don't think he's going to make it. And I said, I need to go see them right now.

Like, well, you're in isolation. I do not give a shit. I'm going to go see them right now, or you're going to have to kill me. It's the only way I'm not seeing them. So they were like, okay. And they get the little human crane and crane me up and put me in my black electrical wheelchair. I called it my black Cadillac thing. It was legit.

They took it from me, though. I put one too many holes in the walls of the... Don't drive your electric wheelchair. It's heavily, heavily medicated, folks. It's not safe. But I go see Ty. D-U-I.

Right? I have one of those, too. Yeah. Believe it or not, I got one of those. And, but I go see Ty. Mind you, this time, at this point, I still haven't gotten, like, emotional one time.

Like, it's, since I left, do love. Like I haven't gotten emotion from my family or otherwise. Still pretty squared away with the whole emotion thing. I go see Ty and I go into his room and he's completely wrapped up. I mean, the front half of his cranium was blown off. I mean, he was blind in one eye, severely burned.

I mean, bad. He looked like a mummy when I saw him. No ears were burned off, eyelids, nose, lips. and I remember I had to yell at his nurse who was this giant black dude this giant black army guy and I had to yell at him who had to then lean down and yell in the side of Ty's head so he could know what was going on and I just told him I told the nurse my guy and there was like hey brother I just

want to come see my family because I heard another Marine was on deck and I was like right on and now we can take over this hospital and uh so he leaned down he said hey he tied another mariner and tie like put up his his knob like hell yeah marines and and tie whispered to the nurse and he said he wants to know like what are your injuries and i told him you know told him my injuries and uh started of course with you know i lost my right leg didn't lose it I mean, obviously, I know where it went, but it started with that. And he was whispering, he was telling Ties, I'm telling the injuries. And as soon as I said, lost my leg, like, Ty holds up his right leg, like, still got mine.

Fuss it down. And the left leg got baneed up, blah, blah, and tie holds up his left leg. And it was like, dude, this typical, typical Marine banter right there. considering the conditions we're in yet we're just going to smoke and joke because that's what family does to get through the hard times you've got to find light and regardless of how dark

the situation is because if you don't it will kill you but I remember having this interaction with Thai and I left the room and I'm facing the nurse's station when I come out and the door shuts and I just completely and utterly broke down to the point of anger. Like I was, I was sobbing and angry. I was so angry seeing him that way.

And I just, like, just yell like those bastards. Like, what, you know, what, why? What are we doing? What are we doing? What are we going to do about that? and it pissed me off not only because here I see my brother that is never ever ever

going to be remotely the same as he ever was before but then it reminded me in a very abrupt manner who the hell are you to be acting the way you're acting because they're telling his family

you better call anyone who wants to tell him goodbye because he's probably not going to make it the next 48 hours. And here I was acting like a complete ass hat. Very much alive. Not having, they weren't having to call anyone of my family or any of my friends. Because I was going to make it. At this point, I'm going to make it.

And that reminded me of, it's not about you. You just thought it was about you. It's not about you. And then that, that one interaction taught me right then, okay, I need to go see every wounded person in this hospital as often as I can. Because that's where I found healing. So that's what I did. I saw every wounded person talk to all their families.

And that is when I realized that, God, there is really something of this service above self. Because not only does it feed my soul, it feeds theirs. it's mutually beneficial. And I learn if you're not willing to use whatever platform you find yourself in and to make yourself 100% vulnerable for whatever may come, you will never make a difference. You're waking up and choosing to be status quo and choosing to be average. And I learned right then,

the great the great ones the ones that the history books are going to rave about and that do rave about were consistently uncomfortable and consistently vulnerable and that was a great lesson for me to learn it didn't make me any better than anyone else it just made me more susceptible to judgment

which already had a ton of so I didn't care I remember being and thinking about this pride of being a United States Marine and representing what that means and thinking about gunny you know the salty gunny back in Iraq and thinking

how would he behave how would he react how would what would he do same thing about first sergeant and I'm actually let's back up back to I'm going to give an example of what being tribal truly means that you can't buy so I'm back in Bethesda and my dad tells me

hey Jake first Sergeant Green's gonna come see you and I just remember thinking shit he's I'm sure he's pissed because I got hit and like he's probably just gonna finish the job and so I was terrified

right I'm terrified because I not only do I respect this man to the nth degree but I love this man and I was like I don't want to experience what I'm about to have to experience I'd rather take the cowards way out so I was like I'm just going to act like I'm passed out

when he walks in I'm on a lot of drugs that'll work so I hear a knock on the door and I'm like hear the door open my dad say you get even first son how are you first walks in so I'm like all right I passed out

as soon as he bust the hatch and walks in My freaking heart monitor dimes me out. Because it goes from like the slow, steady beep to the boo, to the rapid beep. I'm like, son of a bitch. Obviously, this isn't going to work, and there is no plan B. I'm awake. And he looks at my family.

Man, my dad's in there. My mom, my stepmom, my aunt, my cousins, my brother, my sister. And he says, hey, Mr. Shick, how you doing? He's got that raspy voice. I'd imagine being on the drill field as long as he was, didn't help. And he said, we're doing all right. We're hanging in there, first sonar. He said, good to go, good to go.

Hey, you might have to have a minute with my brother? My dad was like, sure, go ahead, first order. Like, he was going to turn around, come talk to me thereby in the room. He looks right at my father and says, yeah, I'm going to need y'all get the hell out. And I was just thinking he's about to kill me right now. It's over. And he comes up to the side of my bed, and remember, the only thing it works, my right arm. At first, I leans down, he puts his right arm out as if to, like, pick me up.

And so I grab, like, I claps hands with him as if he's going to pick me up, right? And he puts the back of his hand on my heart and the back of my hand on his. and he leans down further and puts his forehead on my forehead. And he sits there for about three minutes. He stands up, he pats me on my face, and he walks out. To this day, it was one of the most powerful conversations I've ever had in my life, and not one word was spoken. That's being tribal.

That's tribal. That goes much deeper than team. You can't train that. And he walks out of the room and obviously gets emotional when he walks out because my dad walks in and I get emotional as soon as he walks out because God forbid we're crying for one another. Can't do that. My dad walks in and sees me emotional and he went, hey, first sonner, and he looks at me and like with a puzzled look on his face and he just goes, you Marines are freaking weird. I was like, get out, banker. You're a banker.

And it was one of those moments, man, that only people who have bear the burden of a purpose much greater than themselves, willingly and openly, knowing what the odds could be, what the odds are, what the outcomes could be. Only the people that are willing to love all the way, regardless of the amount of pain, could understand and appreciate that moment. I mean, and I'm proud to say that that man's now the sergeant major of the United States Marine Corps. There's not a more deserving individual I can think of because that guy, that guy is one of the guys I found following the blood trail that taught me, if you're going to love, do it all the way. Don't waste anyone's time doing the halfway thing. that was an amazing moment that I will take to my grave cherishing knowing that that guy just told me

without telling me it's okay to not be okay it's okay at what point did you realize that the drugs were a legit problem the day I was leaving San Antonio the

the command general of the hospital I ended up getting pretty close to at my time during my time there said came out and uh he's we're walking out or well he's walking I'm rolling I'm still not walking well at this point and he says uh I'm going to check out over at 4 3 con and he says you know you know Jake I feel like we should name a hall or something after you after all the shit you put I was like, hey, sir, let me do the infamy thing. I can just let me handle. I got it, all my lonesome.

I don't need your help, you know? And he was like, you know, it's sad to see you go. It's, and I said, well, I'm scared to death to leave. And I remember I basically got a giant bag of drugs. before I went over to 4 3Con the last thing I did with him was signed on page 11 and um

because I the higher up that told me I'm gonna be here every day I told him when I thought about that when what I thought about him and so and he showed me by making me sign on page 11 and I was like

put it on my tab bro what's a page 11 slap on the rest pretty much but you can't be promoted for I think it's 12 months with page 11th And so I was just like, he was in D.C. at the time when I checked out. And the Gunny there was like, you know, hey, he said he wanted to talk to you. I was like, get him on speakerphone.

Let's talk. And I said, I told him what I thought about him. It was inappropriate. And I'm not sorry. But he's like, give him a page 11. And Gunny was like, you know, do you want to contest this? It's like, hell no, put it on my tab, bro. On my way out.

and man I had this bag of drugs and my brother met up there with me and my brother was going to drive me to Florida where I was going to check in a Massick 21 and I knew right then because I was like okay at this point I'd already started like if I was eating one if I had a family member or friend give me a fentanyl pop out of my bag of goodies like I would chew it I'd bite it off the stick chew it up and swallow it and just lay on the stick. And I'd be like, hey, who's going to grab me a fentanyl pop? Like, yeah, Jake, we just gave him.

No, you didn't. You thought you did, but you didn't. I knew, like, because I was like, hey, listen, if I just can't fill, nothing matters. If I'm completely numb, nothing matters. And then when they gave me that giant bag, I was like, oh, shit. I knew how it was going to end.

I was like, yeah. well this is a I don't remember they told me like a three month supply and I was like no this is like a three weeks supply and um man I started that's how I integrated back into civilian society was high as a kite knowing that if I don't have to fill and I can do go through this thing numb nothing matters because if you can't fill it Who cares? You know? I mean, who cares? And it was something that really was, it just got worse and worse. I mean,

essentially what I did for a year and a half was chased my first high. That's what I did. And I was finally, for about a year there, I slept with an over and under 12-gay shotgun was conditioned one next to my bed every night. And every day,

I talk myself out of utilizing it to end my own life. To where I was almost to the point where I had decided why it was okay to do it. And I had justified it in my head and why it would be better for everyone in my life. and around my circle if I was gone. And so I, but then I was told by family that, you know, Jake, the difference is between, and at this point I'm taking about 55 pills three times a day. And I was eating between 8 and 12, 400 milligram fentanyl pops a day. I was on enough medication to kill a village in Africa.

It was gnarly. And the fact that I never OD'd, I mean, there's no medical explanation for that. and so where were all the drugs coming from you get them make a phone call and get them yeah and so it was that was the least of my worries on how to get the drugs I mean because but and to be fair because I was on so much

as I came out of the hospital it took a lot to keep me where I was I mean if I if I'm even 10 minutes late 10 minutes late on one dose I'm starting to withdraw I mean, it was bad. And so finally, I get told, you know, the difference between you living the way you're living

and eating a bullet is time, but the outcome's the same. You're just slowly killing yourself. You owe it to your brothers that didn't come home and those that did and still love and respect you to not only live, but live well. Because that's the only way you can truly honor them is by living well. I mean, that hit me hard And I realized I'm being a selfish bastard

That's what I'm doing I'm carrying out every day Like a victim And I'm not a victim I'm a victor I need to start acting like it And so I called my lead physician The next morning

I said hey good news doc I'm getting off all the drugs She said how are you going to do that So I'm just not taking the first dose I'm just stopping She said I'd hide it advise against that so why's that so because you'll probably have a massive heart attack and die i said roger that plan a's no go what's plant b look like and she's like well you're gonna have to

come back to bmc we're gonna have to wean you off the drugs which is not what i wanted to hear because it was like when i left mcr d san diego i was like no need to ever come back here i'm done d un done and i was like oh shit all right and I went back there and started that process, man, and let me tell you something. I can sit here and tell you a conviction. I know why addicts stay addicts. Because that slow withdrawal process of getting clean, I mean this wholeheartedly. I don't know what was harder being blown up or getting clean.

I honestly don't know what was harder. because I mean hell coming off the drugs they gave you drugs to help you come off the drugs and it's like what I just you know what the frick isn't there a shot or something you can give me and I can get the hell out of here and but there's not how long was the process supposed to be six months so I did two and a half I was clean because I was like I'm not I can't continue to be this sick that hardcore about face though I mean that that comment about look which I've said on this podcast many times like look we got to live to honor our brothers that didn't come home that's the way it is live well and you get you got to live the best possible life you can

they don't have that opportunity that thought right there is what did it um no because again it was a myriad of things man because again you That was the tipping point, but again, it's like the people that come over and you say, hey, you know what the problem is? Yeah. It's like, hey, I bet you there's more than one. So that tipping point, what are some other contributing factors? And the reason I'm asking you this is because people are listening this right now. Yeah.

And they're feeling the way you were feeling. Yep. I got a phone call about our first loss from our unit by his own hand. And I was like, that stung more than I thought that would sting. and I can't do that to the tribe on top of that I can't I need to get my shit together

and it's going to be ugly and it's going to be sloppy and it's not going to be it's going to be the antithesis of what it should look like but I owe that to them I owe that to him that is when I decided

that you know what I'm going to I'm going to to try really hard to do this life thing the way that I'm supposed to do it I mean I'm going to go out of my way to be to where when my brothers hear my name

they can smile on their chest and swell with pride and they can say Yeah, that's my brother That right there is that thing That I was talking about earlier Like I don't care what anybody thinks When it comes to my brothers and what they think Yeah, that means a lot man

Yeah, that carries a shit ton of weight Yeah, that's the stuff It's the stuff that'll change the world So you So you go through the two and a half months And you get clean What's the temptation like once you're clean? Are you feeling like I mean is it always there? What is it?

For a while bro For a while it's all day every day Every time I leave my room Or I have to talk to someone whether I'm related to them or not Or God forbid I have to go to like the mall or some shit It's all I thought about for a while Was man this would be so much easier if I was out right now All the time

That's all I thought about for a while for a while while what about booze yeah right so that's easy that's a that's a that's a pretty that's a pretty pretty good safety net isn't it go from one bad habit to another and you know my family doesn't need help in that arena either and so yeah i was like hey listen you know i mean i'm not on enough drugs to kill her elephants anymore so i can i could probably just start drinking now Yeah. So little did I realize how awesome food was when I got off all the drugs and I was like, oh my God, food is amazing. And I love it because I was emaciated.

When I went to Iraq, I easily weighed. I was probably like 220 pounds solid. I was in some of the best shape of I was ever in my life. When I love BAMC, I weighed 162. And then, because all I did was no shit, it was drink, Gatorade and cappuccane. she knows. I didn't eat ever. Because you would feel like you're starving, like you're really hungry. That's why you,

is the saying good, like you'll never meet a fat drug addict. It's true. Because your mind's going to tell you like, oh my God, I'm starving. Then you eat one bite of something, and it's like you ate an entire cow by yourself. And it's just full. And so I immediately, because we need to remember, too, there are a myriad of forms of self-medicating. Not just drugs and alcohol.

I mean, it can go on and on and on. Well, that's something we need to remember. Because there's going to be some people out there that hear this and they're like, oh, well, you know, I don't drink excessively or I'm not on drugs. Well, there's a lot of other avenues. What else? Food? I mean, porn, I mean, exercise.

I mean, there's a million things that you could do in excess that you think is going to save you from your own head. Yeah, it's like an escape, right? Like an escape. And it brings like that pleasure for that moment. Exactly. Yeah, you get the same, you get the same endorphins release the same, that same dopamine and get that same feeling of, oh, this, okay, this. All right. Because, and all it is, all it is, is a protection mechanism to keep you from having to look inward and go deep into the thing underneath the thing, underneath the thing.

It's all it is. It's all it is. And it's very, very easy to do. I mean, because just being humans alone, we are all addictive by nature. I mean, we are all, to whatever it could be. And so we have to be cognizant of the fact that, you know, there's, we have to consistently remember that we are all always going to be human, always going to be uncomfortable change. Most people like regimented schedules. They like to get up a certain time.

like drink certain thing, eat a certain thing, work out a certain time, go to lunch a certain time. By nature, all of us hate change. Anyone who's in a company that goes through a big transition or a big change, you know what I'm talking about. But we always have to remember that, just like in the Marines, we always say Semper Gumby. The more comfortable you get being uncomfortable, the happier you're going to be. So at what point in this

You get clean What point do you decide You're going to do something significant To try and help other people And you start Yeah, true To kill Great question

Well, I didn't decide it It was my grandmother told me Hey, I want you to come speak to my rotary club And You know Being a man From the South You don't tell your grandmother no

so I was like okay I'm gonna reluctantly do this and hate it the entire time and I did and I showed up and I was easily 40 years by at least 40 years the junior in the room so I started telling my story

and I'm sweating grenades so uncomfortable all I could think about was like I would love to just crush like 10 fentanyl pops right now and it was it was horrific

I mean, it was a freight train, screwing an abortion. It was bad. But so it was one of those things that like, but you can't look away type thing. It was one of those. But I remember walking out of there and I walked out of the building. I'll never forget the side of the building. And I took a deep breath.

Like, okay, you know, I mean, you made it. And then when I took that deep breath, I was like, huh, I feel lighter. not physically that my soul felt lighter and I was like oh then it clicked that's what she was doing

it's tactical therapy I get it that freaking broad she got me because I was I refused to talk to I talked to a psychiatrist once when I got to the hospital and then when I left

and then when I was getting it getting out of the Marine Corps for the VA process, and that was it. So two or three times. Because I had nothing to say to them. Because that PTSD and TBI thing? It's not whatever. It's not a real thing. When I got clean and started to drink and I was like, oh shit.

This PTSD and TBI thing are very, very real. Like very real. and I moved, came back to Texas and I was introduced to a couple guys who started a foundation down there and there were a couple sills. They're to this day great friends of mine, mentors of mine, are brothers for sure. And I call them Flipper 1 and Flipper 2. And that's when I was kind of introduced to the, the nonprofit world and working with warriors and their families and first responders and

law enforcement officers and their families. You know, it was like, it clicked with me. Like, I like this. I'm never going to get rich or wealthy doing this. That's not the point. It was, that gave me more, that put more in my, salt tank than any pill or any bottle ever did. And it made me realize like, oh, all right, this is the same reason I went and visited all

the wounded every time I could. Even when we lost guys in the hospital, like, this is why I'm doing this. It's greater than me. It reminds me daily how insignificant I am. that I'm just another guy that's just using to do stuff that's out of the norm it's hard stuff

anything worth doing should be should be hard that's not worth doing alone and when I was working with this organization I was surrounded by people better than me by default I was better and consistently pushed harder and harder

because I wanted to be held to a different standard. Again, because even then I wasn't waking up, like I'm going to go out of my way to be average today. No, because I had two freaking Navy sills that, you know, were worried they had to have really good tans and their hair had to be great. And they had to have this one type of really cool sunglasses. And I was like, hey, what I'm going to do

It's just, I'm just going to outwork these dudes. You know, I can't use a weapon anymore. I'm not going to outrun them. God knows I'm not going to out swim them. I probably can't out shoot them. My body's completely dicked up, but I could probably hone. I could probably work with the most important tool we all have, most important weapon we all have.

I could probably get to where I could outthink them. And so I started to, to this day, it's a toss up. But, well, with one of them. One of them, I passed them a long time ago. But they know who they are too. That's what makes it even more beautiful. But that's when I realized, like, all right, I need to be, this is what I got to do. This is what I'm going to be called to do.

is to talk to other members of society who've been dealt whatever hand or been dealt a blow to let them know like, hey, yeah, right now it sucks, but you can come out the other side. Because don't get in that deep dark rabbit hole. Don't do that.

There's very few people come out of that. I know because I tried it over and over again. and I never got out of it on my own. Always took help. And so at the time, in 2012, that's when the study came out from the VA. On average, 22 veterans a day die by suicide. And so another Marine and a couple Marines, a business guy, got together in Dallas, and they're like, hey, man, we got to do something.

This is, you know, this is, this is our family. No one even knows this is a thing. What the hell are we doing? And at the time, I'm working at a place that focuses completely on the brain. I mean, I'm surrounded by neuroscientists, PhDs, MDs, and I'm learning a lot of things that, Just reiterated the fact that post-traumatic stress, traumatic brain injury, these are very, very real things. And I worked there for three years while 22 kills started.

And it basically started as an awareness movement. And that's where the push-up challenge was born, the 22 push-up challenge. That was started by 22-kill in 2012. Just for those things, that went viral in 2016. So, you know, overnight success is not a real thing. And so I'm working at this center the whole time, and then there's some change up in leadership at 22 Kill, and I kind of found myself drifting away from the work I was doing at the center

because it just wasn't, it wasn't getting to the part of the soul that I wanted to be in. And it wasn't getting to that. Like people, I've been asked, like, how long are you going to speak? because you give the travel schedule you know it's brutal right and I thought about it for a second and I thought okay well when I walk off a stage the first time I walk off a stage and I feel like I didn't leave a piece of my shoulder that's the last time I'll do it because again it's mutually beneficial and if it's not then in your presenter you're only going to fake it for so long People don't realize.

I feel like I ran a marathon when I'm done presenting for an hour. I'm mentally, physically, and emotionally exhausted. And if you're not, you're faking it. And so that's when I, I left there.

And you know what I learned after three years of working at that place? That's completely centered around the brain and the mind. And it's unfortunate, but essentially I learned after three years at that place, we don't know shit about the brain. I mean, again I mean I'm not going to candy coat it it just is what it is why do you think we're still spending billions and billions of dollars on all this research and all these studies and trying

to figure it out because we just don't understand it that's why we you know we talk about Alzheimer's and CTE we don't even have the technology and the imaging to recognize these things in a living human we put a man on the moon in 1969. Can't tell you if you have CTE while you're alive. For me, it's like, hey, let's step back and look at our priorities. Because one thing everyone's got is a brain. Everyone.

And the problem with the brain is there's no prosthetic for that. You get the one you got and that's it. Why are we not hyper-focused on honing this weapon? that makes us who we are. And so the 22 kill approached me and said, hey, we would love for you to come run 22 kill. We can keep the lights on for about another month and a half. And you don't get health insurance.

And you're going to have to take a pay cut. And I was like, let me think about it. Absolutely, lute, yes. Because I want to be able to talk and share what I've been through with warriors and first responders and law enforcement officers and their families

and say, hey, listen, you see that scar? Like, that one's worth it. This one over here? Don't do that. That one's not worth it. You're going to have to fight these demons. There's no way around it.

But you can win. You just have to keep fighting. because no matter what, no matter where you find yourself in life, you're going to have to fight. Because none of us are getting up and picking out our unicorn. We're just not.

You wake up every day and it's you versus you. And so that's why I was drawn to that. And we had a really big first couple years I was there. And not all because of me, it had to do with a myriad of people, the people that support us, the people that say,

one of my biggest regrets was never serving and I'm like hey who told you who lied to you and said that you have to wear a uniform to be of service to your nation because you don't you don't that's a that's a misnomer I don't wear a uniform anymore neither do you neither do you it doesn't mean we're not serving I don't do what I do because it's easy I do it because it's hard and the The employees that work for 20sukil do it because it's hard. And in the face of tremendous loss, they fight on. That's character. They're doing their dash justice.

Because they're moving a mountain that our own government looks at and says, hey, pick up the corner of that rug and start sweeping and look the other way. And maybe it'll go away. It's not going away. What can people that are listening do to help the cause? You know, I got this from a buddy of mine who was actually an officer in the Army who was severely wounded years ago. And I'm going to echo it just because he's right. It's, you hear all the time, like, I want to help.

I want to help. right? I mean, you hear it a lot from whether it's, you know, I want to, I want to help save the puppies that don't have a home. I tell people all the time, if we were trying to raise money for dogs that died by suicide, we'd be sitting on a billion dollars. It's true. I mean, it's just true. I mean, how many dogs have screwed over a person? Very few, right? But it is what it is. but if you want to wake up and you want to serve or you want to help, we all have three things of value. Every human on this entire spinning ball of shit has three things of value. Time, talent, and treasure.

And if you're not willing to sacrifice some of one of those three things, you're just talking. That's it. You're talking. if you want to help start sacrificing one of those three things. I don't care if it's the 22 kill. I don't care if it's to the humane society. I don't care.

Sacrifice. Because every time we put on that uniform and our firefighters and our paramedics and our EMTs and our law enforcement officers, I mean, tell me if you would feel as confident as you did, going to a foreign country, going to hook and jab, find the bad guys and kill them. Tell me if you would have felt us confident doing that, knowing that there are people back here whom you've never met willing to kick in the door to your house while it is a blaze and save your family. Yeah, I mean, I thank all those people every single time I do this podcast, and that's exactly what I say,

If we're taking care of our home while we were gone. That's it. That's absolutely. And so that's why it's, for me, if you're not willing to sacrifice, just like these men and women do on a daily basis, you're talking. You're talking. If there's people out there that can write a check and that's enough, and that's okay. That's okay. You're doing your part.

You're doing your part. that's all right there are people that want to share talents there are people that say hey I want to volunteer I'm a body use me I'm here that's service that's sacrificing and we have a myriad of ways

to do it and it's a beautiful thing because we're getting better and better at what we're doing because we're not doing research and studies we're implementing the things that work and we're able to tell these men and women

because it's notorious in the warrior community, and you're going to know right when I say it, when you see a brother, you know, okay, bro, you good? How are you? I'm good. Okay. How do we get you great?

Because I want you great. Because greatness, but gets greatness. That's the living well piece. And we have to do it as a tribe together. I don't give a sure. shit if you ever put a uniform on a day in your life. If you're willing to stand shoulder to shoulder with people that experience trauma before the trauma, and they know they've got a thing underneath a thing underneath the thing.

And you're willing to say, hey, let's go start picking up pebbles and moving them because we'll move this mountain and it's going to be long and an arduous and a painstaking process. But look to your left and right. That's what makes it worth it. and we're doing that and we're just getting better at it and yeah it's stressful and yeah I hate fundraising and yeah I hate it but it all comes with it it comes with the territory so some people are going to want to so what 22 kill.com is that the best place to go look yeah go to 22 kill dot com read about learn about what we're doing learn about the things that we've decided

to really engage our focus on and why we're and we're not just helping and treating the warrior or the first responder or the law enforcement or the law enforcement. It's the, we want the entire family. Because when you have, when you pull up to the tire shop and you have four bad tires, you can't, you're not going to change just one tire, right? you got to change it all four we got to treat the family as a unit

because I'm speaking from experience when I say we leave a big wake in our path and I would not be surprised if my family has post-traumatic stress just from dealing with me and the sad thing is is I'm not joking

you know I was thinking about the nurses and doctors you left in the hospital as well as you mentioned earlier if they are better people because of dealing with me So it's, but I mean, listen, man, we're, and just so people note, 22killed.com, they're like, well, don't you have to be dot org, uh, aren't you? No, no. That's you listening to the media.

God forbid, do your own homework and figure it out. It's, you can have dot org.com. And that doesn't matter. That does not denote if you're a 501c3 or not, just for the record. And we have, our. saying at 22 kill. When I came on, I changed it to one tribe, one fight, because you hear all the time in the military especially, one team one fight, one team one fight. And I was around some guys who use the word tribe, and I thought about it, and the more and more I thought

about it. I was speaking one time, I don't remember where I was, but I went to say one team, one fight, but I said one tribe, one fight. because it's too easy to be a team. If you have the same letterhead on your business cards, or you have the same insignia on your shirt, that makes you a team. A tribe goes way deeper than that. The tribe is when my first artist putting his forehead against mine

and doesn't say a word. Yet, I learn a life lesson. and I get the acceptance that I was longing for without even speaking. A tribe is driven by the same ideals, the same conviction, the same passion. I get asked all the time,

like, why are we still at war in Iraq and Afghanistan and Osir? Because you can't kill your way out of an idea. That's why. That's what it is. God forbid we call it that. But just with us, us, we, so we have programs like Camp Bahala, which is a program where we can, we take up

words, first responders, law enforcement officers. The most gnarly side of it is we'll take him up in a helicopter and take them to go kill hogs out of helicopter, because if you don't like that, then you don't like freedom. But we, you know, we also, you, we can take them fishing. We can take them to the range. We can, but it's always followed up by a fireside chat. That's where the money's made. That's where you've got to be vulnerable.

You'll get your adrenaline kick and then be willing to lower your wall and talk about the real shit. You know, then we have stay the course, which is, that's a traditional therapy. This is the, you know, Camp Bahalad be non-traditional. Stay the course is very traditional. It's the one-on-one therapy with the warrior first responder, his or her family. And listen, the reason that that was an attractive approach was because if you look back on what is the most successful outcome measures as far as therapy goes and as far as treating matters of the mind, that has the best track record, the one-on-one. I think everyone on the

spin and ball of chaos to talk to a professional, at least once a month, every single person. and I'm saying that as the guy that I would launch my piss bottle in the hospital at one if they came in my room. I'm telling you right now, I wish I'd have started that a long time ago because it would have saved me from a lot of shit I've had to deal with because I let my pride win. That's it. I mean, don't be afraid to say what it is. We started a thing called the Brave program, which is women specific. because believe it or not, neither sex knows everything. They just don't.

There's power in numbers, but women, when you break it down, you break the numbers down to the bare bones, they're leading the charge in everything in a negative light. And that's, I think, has a lot to do, but they're a much smaller population when it comes to the service community. So they're more apt to be, to deal in self-medication, isolation, you know, and they don't have nearly as big as of an immediate tribe to depend on as we do. Because there's just way less of them.

And so that's our brave program and they can go do all the things that all the guys do, but it's women-specific because they need to be empowered too. And it's our job to help them do that without judgment. And we also have the White Star Families program that we're building out, which is basically you have the Gold Star families which started by the DoD. Well, unfortunately, the White Star families don't have a seat at that table.

White Star families, they are family members who have fallen victim to suicide. And we want to give them a table. They deserve a damn table. As you talk to those kids, they don't give a crap out of their mom or dad died. They just know they don't have a mom or dad.

That's enough for me. Far be it from us to not honor someone like Lewis Puller. who the hell are we I don't give a crap what society says how I should feel about that is let me tell you something this is something to everyone needs to know

unfortunately I bet a lot of your listeners do know already suicide's just a word until it affects you personally it's just a word and I hear a lot where there's some corporations or owners of a mom and pop shop well Jake you know we would love to support you

But 22 kills a pretty strong name. So is cancer and AIDS. It's supposed to get your attention. That's the point. Start the conversation. Because we hear all the time knowledge is power. No, it's not. Knowledge is power when it's shared.

Then it becomes powerful. And I tell people, just like I'll tell you, if you can't support us because of a name, if you can't look past a name to get to the root cause of an issue, consider yourself part of the problem. It's it. All you're doing is feeding a stigma that's killing the best men and women this nation's got to offer. Well, I'll tell you what.

I think that's probably a pretty good place to wrap. We've been going for a while and especially because you just made very clear the reason why I wanted to have you come on this podcast now because, you know, again, this time. everything together that I've been talking about for the past three podcasts you know you got a guy like Lewis Polar Jr. And we got to do something. Yeah.

Because it's still going on. And you're out there and your people are on the front lines fighting it. And, you know, I was watching a video that you had on your YouTube channel. And it's just pictures. Pictures of soldiers, pictures of Marines.

pictures of service men and women and they're just coming up on the screen and it's all them you know in their uniforms and overseas and back home and I know what each one of those pictures is and so I thank you for coming on obviously

thanks for your service and thanks for everything you've done and thanks for your sacrifice and thanks for what you're doing right now well let me tell you I learned a long time ago you hear guys like us you know the meat ads and the knuckle draggers that I'm sick of here

and thank you for your service you know it was impossible for me for a long time to go in a public place because if I'm wearing shorts and a t-shirt it's abundantly apparent I had a shitty day at the office somewhere along the line it was impossible for me to get anything done go buy bread and go home without

someone stopping me I hate that that happened over there Yeah, thank you for your service. I was like, man, it's so annoying. I don't know. I just want to get bread and go home. It never dawned on me until a few years ago. Maybe they're doing that for them.

Maybe that's as much for them as it is for me. And then I thought about why I signed up. It's because I thought they were worth it. I thought their families were worth it. So I was told one time, hey, thank you. And I said, you're worth it. Two things happened. The conversation ended there.

And secondly, they probably walked out of there a little taller than they walked in. And I was like, oh, thanks God, I get it now. It's not about me. I'll tell you, just like I tell all of them, you're worth it. Your family's worth it. All your listeners, I feel the same way. even though I guarantee you I'm going to have a million differences with a million

different of them you're worth it I'm going to do it all again tomorrow just had a bad day at the office and you know I just want to leave your listeners with this is that there's power just trust me when I tell you there's so much power

we're about to start this thing called the tribal council which I think is going to it's a peer to peer support And I think I'm praying to God that it has the power behind it that I think it does. And I'm going to lead the charge. I'll be the first one to stand up on the soapbox. I'm just going to open up my chest cavity, pour my soul out in front of a group of people I've never met and say, here's the shit I deal with.

Here's what I've been through. This is what I'm doing to address it. And this is how you can hold me accountable. Who's next? There's a lot of power in that. Because we have to remember in our community you hear all the time. Be accountable to yourself. Be accountable to your brothers.

Be accountable to your sisters. Well, unless you have brutal honesty first, you have manufactured accountability. So when I ask you, how you doing? Don't tell me good to appease me because I'm going to call you on your shit. Be great. So thank you. I'm going to turn it back on you. Thank you.

for doing what you're doing. Because, dude, your tip of the spirit, just like anyone else, like you are leading the charge. This wasn't easy for you to do. What you had me come here and do when you talked about Chessie, when you talked about Lewis Jr., when you had me, this is not the popular thing to do. But you said, I've never been okay with the status quo. Why start now? So thank you for everything you've done and continue.

to do well I'll tell you this is a it's literally an honor to be able to do this people throw that word around all the time it is an honor for me to sit here it's an honor for me to sit here with you all the guests I've had on here to be able to tell these stories that I I'm sick sometimes that they're they're not carried on and it's an honor for me able to be able to pass on these stories so that people know and people can learn and It's a humbling experience to do it as well because being in the shadow of people like these guys, people like yourself, it's a humbling experience to be around warriors like that from all phases of history and we're going to keep doing it. And when you get that program rolling, get your ass back on here.

We'll talk about it. We'll talk about how it's going and we'll get the word out on that thing too. Right on. Awesome. Don't threaten me with a good time. Echo Charles. Yes. You got to quickly.

Quickly. If anybody wants to support themselves. I have a question first. Oh, man, I knew that was coming. Hey, is that a common stereotype about Navy SEALs? They got to go tanning. They need the cool sunglasses. They need nice hair.

Not really Jocko, though. You don't go tanning. No, no. The stereotypical seal thing was something that I didn't like, you know, I didn't like it. And the older I got, the more I disliked it. And it's, you know, but it's a reality of, you know, especially during the 80s and 90s, bro, during the 80s and 90s, which is where that reputation, but, you know, the guys in Vietnam too, man,

those guys, like in Vietnam, they wore blue jeans in the field, you know, because they kept off leeches and they were tougher. But then, you know, guess what? That turns into, like, something where guys, some guy in 1992 is wearing blue jeans with his camis. And it's like, oh, no way, you have no reason to do that, bro. Now when I showed up at the teams, it was like, hey, we, you know, I wanted to have long hair and be, like, a cool guy.

Wait, you did. Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. There's, somebody just put a picture out on the interwebs of me with long hair, like, circa 1990, whatever. Yeah, that was a good. Long sideburns and everything, because I wanted to be Joe. cool and but what happened was well number one the war started number two I I started working really closely with conventional forces on my first deployment a little bit on

my second deployment a ton also I did multiple shipboard deployments where I worked with Marines very closely even when I was young and yeah so I just it was one of those things that like when I would hear it at first I would be like oh that's no big deal but then what I realized was it was a real When you heard the stereotype as I moved into leadership positions and I He would hear that steer stereotype I realized it was a real thing and that that real thing wasn't it wasn't funny It wasn't funny because when you when you meet a Marine Corps Battalion commander Yeah, and you have long hair your uniform doesn't look right or you meet an

Army Battalion commander or an Army Brigade commander or a senior or a gunny sergeant Or a company first sergeant or a Company first sergeant when you meet one of them Somebody that's been in the Marine Corps for 23 years and you can't put on and blouse your your pants and your boots It doesn't matter how good you are in the field. They're looking at you and thinking Oh, this guy can't even blouse the boots. I don't want him around me Yeah, that's that's so that stereotype Even though it had definitely was rooted in truth like hey man when we got to Ramadi

Everyone had shaved heads everyone had squared away uniforms didn't allow patches we talked about them before You know we we had guys like if we could we put our whole element in army camouflage uniforms so ACUs they just look like army soldiers yeah remember you said that yeah so I was against it but I get the humor of it and I you know I don't take anything that personally so okay so it's a stereotype like in at work kind I thought he meant maybe like out at the club or whatever like you know Nade Seals tend to be more into it yeah you know what's funny is you know who made a joke about this Tim Kennedy we

were here we were recording the podcast Tim Kennedy we were was literally doing a photo shoot. Yeah, yeah. And he was like, and he's got long hair. And he was like, oh, you know, I'm not like a Hollywood seal. And I was like, dang, dude. I don't even have hair. I'll tell you why.

Let me give you the Barney version of everything he just said. This is one of the things I dig about Jocko and it has nothing to do with his following or what he did. It's because he, he's authentic. And he's intentional and everything that he does. And we should long to be around that a lot more. Yep, I'm going to have to go ahead and agree with you on that one. So that's when you sort of learned, hey, hairs just to look good. This is after you shave your head, by the way.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. Doesn't mean anything else. I'm here to win. Yeah. But that's, that was me growing up in the teams. Yeah, yeah. You know?

That's why Tim, Tim Kennedy, he's going to hear this. I was making fun of my, well, he was making fun of my people. Yeah, yeah, your people. About my people having long hair, but he had long hair.

And doing a photo shoot. Yeah. You know who said that, you know Matt Best, right, Matt Best? Yeah. On one of his videos, he alluded to that.

Oh, it's, no, it's real. Yeah, that's a thing. No, and it's a real thing. And Tim Kennedy's 100% right, too. Because, because, yeah, there's some seals. you're like oh come on i know a hundred percent let me tell you one thing i i i i just

object to in it in a in a real strong way somebody using some kind of hair product right like that's no that's a no more than tanny that's a no oh take no one actually tans oh that's not a real thing oh my god hey i was on a oh bro i was on i was on i was on a argue in the 90s and there was the there was the marine recon guys and they straight up

had the foil like reflectors under their chins out when they were sun tanning I got a kick out of that but it doesn't matter it doesn't matter if they that there was a dozen

recon Marines out in in Speedos straight up tanning with baby oil it doesn't matter the reality was the seals were the Hollywood tanning guys that's the way it is

that's what you got to do with at the same time bro too though let's be very clear that It's Mead's saying it Or Tim Kennedy Or Matt

Or That's one thing Okay But if like If Joe Public Civilian says something It's like hey bro Yeah

Yeah I don't know that I don't know that Joe public Would actually know that Yeah that's why They watch movies If we rolled out Oh if we rolled out

All the stereotypes For the services Like Marines dumb, jarhead Crayan Oh the Crayan thing That's the big Marine Corps one

What crayon creon heater Yeah they eat crans That's like Legit thing The the army's got there You know Whoa things and you know We don't have that kind of time

All that kind of thing going on Green Berets You know Smoking cigarettes You know that's what the seals Would say like oh yeah They're over there smoking cigarettes And eating donuts

You know so It's just little Stereotypes that have some some basis of reality But you know you can't put a stairs So that's why stereotypes are stereotypes There's some levels of reality to it in them But they're the realities that you can't blanket

A whole organization with any of those So that's the way it goes Right bro next time you go tanning Let me know, you're mad You're solid there Jack who's gonna tanning All right Well there it is we cleared that up

Thank you for that of course Here to help And you know I can talk about about some ways to support the podcast as well do you know do you know what this is I'm gonna teach you something right now yeah yeah when the train no right no no the big the big boom boom in the field means don't pick it up pick up the pace gotcha all right let's do it all right cool well if you want support this podcast and yourself of course we're doing a

double thing go to origin main dot com okay origin main dot com this is where you can get jaco supplements for your joints first of all That's a big one. You know what you're starting to sound like? What? Just so you know. What? Not the radio guy.

Yes. No, not the radio guy. That was 100%. Brad, do I sound like a radio guy? That was 100%. No, nothing. Thanks, Jake. Redo it, dude.

You were like, you were like, uh, I can't even say it. No, no, no, no, I wasn't. All right. All right. I believe you. Okay. Origin, main. Maine.

The state main. Origin, Maine. This is where you can get Jaco supplements, super cruel oil for your joints. Important. Super important. Yeah, that was good. Solid.

Approved. And it's true, by the way. Also, another supplement called discipline. That's what this one. This one is right here. It's like a cognitive enhancer and, you know, some caffeine in there. Some good stuff. Is there, there's some vitamins in here?

This is a good one. This is a really good on. I mean, take before you do something that you got to use your brain and your body, which is cool. Also, mok. Moke is out. It's protein powder. Jocco. The Oomla?

Believe it or not, I did too. two and two I got it put it together wasn't that crafty all right well there it is boom and mok tasty yeah mint chocolate chip and wait wait you're coming out with a new uh yeah yeah but we're working those won't be out for a little bit okay so there's new there's new discipline coming out it's new flavor one of the flavors yeah yeah one of the flavors is it's i don't know if This is okay, right? We might have to rebrand it something else because it can't be Jocko if it is Coconut pineapple.

Yeah, it's tasty. Okay, so here's so good, man. I can't believe it. So anyway. So Jocco's hardcore, right? Authentic, authentic, hardcore, right? Okay, so one of the main important issues with developing these supplements, which are good supplements,

by the way, is taste. Is that hardcore? Does that seem hardcore to you? He thinks that I would like when I originally was making supplements He thought that my I would have no priority on taste like if it tastes bad doesn't matter Right doesn't matter it's actually better if it tastes worse I was all steak out of Okay I wasn't thinking but you could think that Yeah, you know what in order to drink this you just got to get like you just got to grit your teeth and get some potentially

Like hey if that happens it happens kind of like if it's cold But I don't feel that way because the reality is when when supplements taste like crap you don't don't take them so then what's the point yeah so there you know the flank that's what he did that's what that is the flank with the taste nonetheless tastes good and I think peanut collada pineapple coconut whatever I think that's a good idea pay homage to our Hawaii roots yes all my people in Hawaii yes and Moch by the way is a mint chocolate chip yep mint chocolate there's no chips there's no chips good point same same kind of feel I've never heard it without the chips kind of

I'm a gerbil for a loop It's gonna be a little bit tough to deal with Yeah, yeah It will taste good though We can we can come on that Yeah reports are in Good very good also Oh I hear good things about the mixability too

Side note oh just that's a big deal By the way Yeah it's a pain in ass Also geese and rash cards We're still on origin main by the way Doorscom origin main dot com Giz and rash cards if you're into Jiu Jitsu When you get into Jiu Jitsu you can have the question

And I still, we still get that cord. What ghee should I get? Get origin ghee. Boom. There you go. Also, Rashgarts, compression gear and sweatsuits and whatnot. Most comfortable sweatsuits in the world. Proven, 100%.

Also, the immersion camp, Jiu-Jitsu immersion camp. Boom. In Maine, Lake Echo layers. One week, two sessions starts August 26th and September 2nd. Laif will be there Dave Burke will be there I will be there JEP is JPM gonna be it he's Scheduling trying to schedule it at this time wait so Leif is going Mief is going and of course I can't say like full confirmed right because flights aren't booked yet or whatever but right right when I talked to Laif the other day he was let's just call it real

Fired up yeah that's so that's the plan boom lay in the game um Dave of course me yeah and and Jocco's going no injury no injury rib this time you want to with jockey general jocco it would be good um go to origin main dot com to see all of these things and you know you see something you like get something also on it dot com slash jaco you can get fitness gear kettle bells steel bells jump ropes a lot of good stuff on there I got some soap from them interesting interesting yeah just to see what it was you know they have some good stuff approve or disapprove I didn't use it yet oh Just cue him in.

I'll report back. I promise. Remind silent. Good spot. Onet.com slash jaco. Also, when you buy these books, Fortunate Sun, Marine,

life of chesty puller, or any of the books that Jocko reviews on this podcast, what he did, one to Jock podcast, or jocoppodcast.com little section called

Books from the Episodes. Got them all listed there by episode. Click through there. Boom, take it to Amazon shop. Buy those books. Or a leaf blower.

Or whatever. isn't gonna buy just carry on shopping that's you know do your thing good way to support very good very good also the alternative is we do like 40 minutes of advertisements in the beginning I don't have a problem with that that's not happening well yeah you're kind of anti advertisements as far as advertisements go yeah even like on you you know how when you watch YouTube video in the ads in the beginning of the video I have YouTube red do you have YouTube red too is that what's going on I don't YouTube red is that

the best $9.99 a month you can spend. You press click and it just starts playing the video, no advertisement. Here's the thing. I don't mind the advertisements. That's how I find out about a bunch of the new movies that come out, a lot of like, like, you know, intermittent fasting. Weird. I had a guy the other day, he was like, I was watching, he was watching one of the podcasts.

And it was one of the heavy podcasts, which I guess doesn't really narrow it down too much, but he goes, he's walking a podcast and all of a sudden there's a big advertisement on that. You know what? This is what YouTube will do sometimes with longer videos. They'll just put that in wherever. This guy was angry. Yeah.

And you know what? I can date. It was in the YouTube comments, which we know we don't respond to, but we do read. But I almost responded, bro. 999. 99 month. That thing's gone. Yeah.

I was watching videos. That's some serious first world shit right there. It is, bro. It is. It is. Yeah. It is. Effie.

But it was going great. And then the commercial. She'll pop that. It was 30 seconds in my life. I'll never get back. Again, man. I dig the ads. I get it, though.

You know, because sometimes you're listening to his deal, his thing, whatever it is. He's talking about. It takes you mentally and kind of emotionally, let's face it, emotionally into a certain spot. And then it fades out into some, hey, do you want to, I don't know, whatever the ad is. You know, you want to get more, it kind of puts the breaks on that. There's been some emotional moments in the podcast, especially for Echo. I'll say Echo's been very, and we didn't talk about it because it was actually not the right time to talk about it. But on the last podcast 122, there was an emotional moment for Echo.

And, uh, you got through it. I know, I know I'm like super hardcore and everyone knows that, you know, but hey, man, you know, even the strongest other moments of fatigue. No one. And I was maybe just fatigued that time. Anyway, good ways to support is subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already on. on iTunes stitcher Google play in any other place or wherever you listen to your podcast new podcast apps all over now so boom subscribe no shame can't keep up on yeah and when I say no shame that's not a in Hawaii or actually here's

something little interesting things that's super interesting it's kind of interesting you know the expression no shame right it usually means like by this guy has no shame like he's kind of low like he his moral standards may be kind of low something like that right in Hawaii no shame means don't be shy. I like in South Africa when I was in South Africa. They say shame. It's just a word that they use for all kinds of different things.

I'm like shame. No kidding. Yeah. It's, I like the way they used it. Interesting. Yeah. I'll try and bring it back. I'm telling you right now with those two pieces of information, right?

I'm prepared to change the word. It'll help. It'll help communication. You get a guy from Hawaii and he says, no shame. He doesn't mean it in a bad way because they're very subtle differences, but one is kind of on the bad side like oh this guy no shame you know this guy no shame if a guy from Hawaii says no shame is he's just saying don't be shy or if he's telling the story he say hey this person wasn't shy at that point like like if he says and here it is

here's the example okay I'm telling the story about a guy who went and talked to a girl and said by this guy no shame he just went and talked to her on the mainland or you know outside of Hawaii whatever they'd be like wait what was wrong with it was that his friend's girlfriend or something or was that his cousin or something you know I mean So it sounds like a whole different story. So you can't do that in text message there. If it's a Hawaii guy, you can. More personal problems.

Yeah, well, come in. What you may not know is the, if he could probably do it because he is very proactive and aggressive in his use of emojis. This guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Reimbo's, shockers, lightbulz, he brings it. Yeah, I incorporated the palm tree too very recently, so watch out. for that one yes nonetheless back to support YouTube channel also along with the podcast platforms and apps YouTube we do have a YouTube channel where kid podcast is

YouTube channel too now boom just released warrior kid YouTube channel yeah podcast for the podcast yes same kind of deal but just work it's posted yet it's up and running life so I get you on the lookout for that one but yeah YouTube the we have the video version of this podcast want to see what Jake looks like and some good looking guy He talked about that money maker during the podcast. You might want to come check it out. Yeah, guys got curious. I'm telling you.

You don't deny. One of the first things I did was ask somebody in my family. I was like, I need a mirror. But I didn't see my face. I was like, how bad is it? I saw it. I was like, ah, I'm not bad. We're good.

Yeah, you can still work. Boom. Right on. Solid. Yeah. So if you guys curious, curious about that, boom, we got the YouTube channel. Perfect. Also got excerpts on there and enhanced excerpts.

I take little excerpts. music on it's nice I think it's nice chocolate it's nice yeah yeah good some of hell yeah also jaco has a store it's called jaco store creatively enough jocco store.com is where you can get t-shirts and whatnot what not what not meaning rash cards as well hoodies hats all kinds of cool stuff I think they're cool I love it yeah it's good it's good jocco store dot com I'm telling you it's jaco gear it's jaco gear it's jaco gear On Jocco store. Yeah, yeah, fully.

Nonetheless, look, with this one, I'm not saying, hey, go to Jocco store and buy something. I'm not saying that. I'm saying just go there. Check it out. You like something? Get something.

That's a good way to support. That's all I'm saying about Jocka store. Also, it's good. Yeah. Also, psychological warfare. Okay, you're going to know what that is, this is what it is. It's an album with tracks.

Jocko tracks. Not a song. They're not songs. Not Jaku singing. You don't want none of that. No. No, we don't. Playing guitar maybe that's kind of quiet thing you play guitar nonetheless it's not that it's jaco talking and here's what he's saying

Okay We call it our campaign against weakness right just you know you're on the program you're on the path You getting in shape you're staying in shape you're whatever you're doing right you're reading more I don't know Waking up early Right impose the discipline first thing in the morning whatever whatever you do you can do that every day Those days where you're feeling weak you might skip the workout I'm gonna sleep in whatever whatever the weakness is there's a track for it and it's jocco telling you why you shouldn't give in to that weakness just for that time it's not him yelling

nothing like that just kind of explaining to you why you shouldn't shouldn't give in it's real effective too by the way 100% effective if I'm not mistaken that was the last numerical report percentage was check well you know you just mentioned very quickly the warrior kid podcast yeah and that has a YouTube channel yes and in order to have a YouTube channel for the warrior kid podcast there has to be a warrior kid podcast which there is now. Warrior Kid podcast is out. And in it,

it is questions for Uncle Jake, by the way. Not this Uncle Jake, but a different Uncle Jake. I'll tell you. Similar. And it's on a separate channel. The reason I put it on a separate channel

is so that your kids aren't sitting there streaming podcasts Warrior Kid podcast, and all of a sudden they jump into machete season. Yeah. Or the Mila Masker. So it's a totally separate channel.

Uncle Jake's got some lessons learned for kids. Yes, definitely. For parents, very true. 100% coming from Echo Charles. For teachers, yes, coaches, yes. Human beings, I'm going to go ahead and say yes. Real quick about what I was thinking to while I was listening to it where it's, okay, this is why it's for like a parent because these kids like that ask you the questions,

their questions, they probably ask their parents. You see what I'm saying? Maybe the parents would be like, oh, I'm not sure. Yeah, maybe or okay, I'll just kind of spontaneously answer the question. Meanwhile, it's like kind of your vert is good, man. It's good. It's getting a lot. It's number one.

Did you know that happens to be, yeah. Number one, number one, uh, kids podcast, kids and family podcasts. So that's cool. All right. Speaking of Way of the Warrior Kid, there's the book, Way of the Warrior Kid. And there's also the new book. Boom. There it is, hardcover.

Way of the Warrior Kid, two, Mark's mission. Uncle Jake continues to help Mark with some of his problems, losing his temper, how to handle being made fun of. Don't you wish somebody told you how to handle being made fun of when you were a kid? I know I would have liked that. Fear of failure. How do you overcome that? Also learns about the value of money. A lot of people don't know that these days.

A lot of kids don't know that for sure. Mark in the book actually gets a job, makes money, refurbishes a bike, basically gets after it. So give the children that you know the ultimate gift and that is the gift of discipline Show them the way the warrior kid and you will be stoked speaking of warrior kids and soap which you mentioned earlier Yeah you could get from on it you could also get soap from Aden he's a warrior kid yeah very very good on now Yeah Irish Oaks ranch dot com stay clean that's the motto sure don't forget about discipline equals freedom field manual and you know I'm actually glad I wrote this book. Yeah.

You want to know why? Because I actually have to refer to it. Oh, dang. Okay. Okay. That's kind of the reaction. I thought you're going to say, like, dang,

like you didn't think I had to refer to it. Did you think I didn't have to refer to it? I think I never thought about whether or not you had to think, refer to it. But now that you mentioned it's kind of like, oh, I get it. It's like, you know how you got to write your to do list? Like, why, you can remember that?

It's kind of like that. I have to refer to the manual. Yeah. It's a good book, man. It's good. You open it up, read a page. It's good. Read two pages.

That's the way I wrote it. I wasn't even thinking about the effectiveness of it. Yeah. It's pretty cool. If you want the audio version, Discipline equals Freedom, field manual.

It's not on Audible. Because Audible wouldn't work for a book like this. It needs to be an album with tracks. So it's available on iTunes, Amazon music, Google Play, other MP3 platforms. Then there's extreme ownership. Of course, combat leadership

applied to the battlefield, field applied to business applied to life do you know over the one million copies sold right now that's pretty cool impressive yeah we're stoked on that and it's been it's the best selling I forget there's some kind of a cool best selling leadership book since its release or something right right I forget the actual thing but it sounded pretty cool yeah man they sent me a stat thing today that's why I know this stuff get it for your business in life and also you can now order the follow-on book to extreme ownership that I wrote with my brother

Lafabin it's called the dichotomy of leadership it is finding the balance as a leader and I talk about this all the time on the podcast I actually said I actually talked about the this in the first public interview I ever did with Tim Ferriss he asked me about the qualities of leaders I said balance so well that's what I'm talking about right as we continue to work with companies and businesses people like the hardest thing people have hardest challenge people have is balance I talked a ton about that with the talking about chesty puller so much balance he balanced perfectly between being hard and being gentle he found that perfect balance

because you know if you're gentle too gentle as a leader you're a push over no one respects you you're too hard as a leader you drive people too hard you're a slave driver no one likes you no one respects you you got to find that balance that's what this book is about and if you need QRF at your company quick reaction force right if you need some support some help with your leadership well Contact the quick reaction force for your team. It's called Eschalon Front. It's my leadership consulting company.

It's me. It's Laifabin, J.P. Danelle, Dave Burke. Website is Eschalonfront.com. We solve problems through leadership. Boom. If you got a problem, it's leadership. Of course, the muster leadership seminar, 005 is in Washington, D.C., May 17th and 18th, and 006th.

It's in San Francisco, October 17th and 18th. D.C. is close to being sold. out right now. It might be sold out. There might be a few tickets left. But if you want to register Extremeownership.com, get in the game with us. I will not be in the presidential suite eating chocolate covered strawberries and drinking fizzy water. I will not be doing that. I will be with you. If you come to the monster, I'll be with you hanging out, eating lunch, working out, talking, answering questions the whole time. No green room. Lief same way

J.P. Same way. Dave, same way. Echo Charles? Same way. You can come to any one of those if you want to. They're fun. They're fun. Yeah. We got something in Dallas, too, if you want to come to that.

It's called the Roll Call. It's for police, law enforcement, military. You want to come, hang out, do whatever you want to do. You can just come BTF around, get after it. That's cool with us.

And that one is September 21st. in Dallas, Texas. That's also register on Extreme Ownership.com. And until... Dude. It's perfect. It's perfect. You got something going on?

Yeah. So I got hit September 20th. Oh. Our gala is September 22nd in Dallas. We're good. We'll see you there. Right on. You're locked.

You're all coming. Oh, dang. We'll come do your thing. You come do it. Oh, nice. We'll crash your party. You crash mine. Hey, again, with a good time.

That'd be awesome. And until we see you at the muster or the roll car call or at the immersion camp in Maine, if you want to cruise with us kind of hard, you can find us on the interwebs on Twitter, on Instagram, and on that Facebook hockey. Jake, listen to this one. Jake is at Jacob underscore. Shick Which is spelled like S

Chick I always say I say Shick like the razor No relation I got screwed on that deal Oh yeah you got left out The cold on that one

Yeah The dude that started Its name Jacob Shick I googled your name Like a couple weeks ago And I was reading about Jacob Shick

Hmm One of these days I'm gonna overtake him That's what I'm talking about Echo is at Echo Charles And I am at Jocko Willink. Echo, you got anything else? No, man.

Fuck, my man. Thank you. So cool to meet you, too. Bro. Right on. Feeling is mutual, brother. Right on. Jake.

Any closing thoughts? Yeah, I forgot to say, by the way, and I will get scolded if I don't, that if you buy our merch, I need you to know that that's how we pay our over-ed. Our merchandise sells. And the merch is available at? 22-killed.com. 22 kill.com. And we're starting a wind therapy program through a partnership with J&P cycles.

Did you say what kind of therapy? Wind. What is that all about? The breeze between the knees, bro. Oh. Motorcycles. Oh, okay. Got it.

See, you took it. You were going to take it to a weird place. No, I was taking it free fall. Oh, yeah. No. I was taking it free fall. I always had a problem. You always used to say knees in the breeze.

With jumping out of things that didn't need jumping out of. I was just like, no, no, because, you know, gravity. Yep. No, man, listen, no, I don't, I would just leave people with this. Like, hey, listen, it just keep grinding. That's what it's all about. I've learned this in my well-versed and experienced 36 years of life. Three things.

This life's absolutely worth living. What makes it beautiful is you get to share it with people that you love all the way, your successes and your failures. And three, it's not about you. live well check well Jake as I said before thank you for coming on the show but more importantly thanks for your service in the Marine Corps right thanks for your sacrifice thanks for fighting so hard and thanks for what you are doing now to help veterans continue to live the lives they deserve to live and to everyone out there whether you're a veteran or not

I said at the beginning of this series that this was a story of war and love and pain and death. Life is hard. It is tragic and merciless. And when you are caught in that storm, you might not see anything else beyond the darkness. There is light beyond the darkness. But you have to hang on you have to hang on and you have to move forward and you have to fight You have to fight fight through all that pain and fear and darkness and get to the other side Where the darkness subsides and where you can once again live

Thanks for listening Thanks for living and thanks for getting out there and getting after it. So until next time, this is Jake Schick and Echo and Jocko. Out.