Jocko Podcast - 125: How Can Discipline Fail You? Excuses, Playing The Game, Good Decision Making, Jiu Jitsu

Episode Date: May 16, 2018

0:00:00 - Opening 0:00:19 - A "Reason" VS an Excuse". 0:10:03 - Questioning your leadership. 0:16:11 - Arrogant Jerks in Jiu Jitsu. 0:28:04 - Do Leadership principles change with major growth of a company? 0:34:35 - "Playing the Game" for success, contrasted with "Agreeableness". 0:51:01 - Good decision making VS Good outcome. 1:03:44 - Getting better at Jiu jItsu 1:16:04 - Does Discipline ever fail you? 1:18:40 - Support. 1:43:05 - Closing Gratitude.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 125 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. And we are bringing a Q&A today. Sure. To the world. First quest. Dang right into it.

Okay. All right. What is the difference between an excuse and a reason? Kind of a good question, right? Sure. Okay. Okay. And the reason it's a good question

Because there's there can be legitimate reasons why things happen Yeah right and So for instance you're in a in a sailing race right in a sailboat And the mast snaps in half now you don't win the race But I mean you didn't you know the mast snapped What can you do about that or the weather's the horrible weather rolls in You can't launch your aircraft so you're you You can't go on your mission.

You can't control the weather so, you know, like, what's up? How can that? That's a reason. Or you get really sick so you can't compete in a competition. That's a reason. You know, you were sick. Oh, you do bad because you were sick and you, it's a reason could be called. Now, you could look at the situation and say, okay, if I'm going to take ownership of this,

did I properly test the mast? Sure. Did I? Yeah. Let me ask you this. Did we have a ground-based plan for the operation in case the weather came in? We were going to take vehicles instead. Right?

Yeah. That would work. If you get sick before the competition, maybe you ask yourself, were you resting properly? Were you eating properly going into the competition so you wouldn't get sick? You could address that, correct? Yes, sir. So you can still take ownership of things. Even if the initial reaction is like oh, there's you can't control that well there you can influence it you could mitigate it

Right now Can there still be legitimate reasons? Yes, there can and for me the the the difference the line Between an excuse and a reason is A reason you have zero control over Right you've you just have zero control over something happening well that's a reason Did I tell you I was almost late the other day for something? Uh, no, because this is borderline. This is borderline.

Uh-huh. I had an appointment at 10 o'clock. I left, it was a 20-minute drive. Mm-hmm. I left an hour. I left at, well, I left about 9, 10. I left 50 minutes to drive 20 minutes. Right.

Just so going to make it on time. Yeah, yeah. I get on the road, basically a couple roads out of my house and the one entry way to get on the freeway is lock down lockdown mm-hmm like incident like isolate some incident incident a guy trying to kill himself okay on a bridge shut the road down yeah so no one's going on the highway so what is it everyone's being channelized into marginal what they called back side streets yeah yeah retours rerouted yeah the clock is ticking and

and I made it, right? I made it. I was four minutes. I had four minutes to spare. So instead of it taking 20 minutes, it took whatever, 46 minutes, took more than twice as long. That could be, you know, a fairly legitimate reason. Now, luckily, I had always, you know, I had planned that there could be something out of my control

and it might take even longer. And that's why I leave early to go to, an appointment or a situation like that. So I could have also checked the traffic prior to leaving and taking a completely different route. That would have been, I blame myself. So even in that situation, I'm kind of, I was thinking the whole time, why did I, why didn't I check the traffic before I left? I knew this could have happened.

So anyways, in my opinion, an excuse is when you blame something that you could have controlled and a reason is something that you have absolutely no control over whatsoever. You know, you think like a legit disease. I mean, sometimes people have, they just don't, you can't control that. It happens. But I think, and I think this is the important part. I think that what you will find, especially when you approach the world with an attitude of extreme ownership, and that's that you're not going to make any excuses, you're not going to blame anyone else,

is that you actually have a lot more control over things. than you think you do we've talked about this before when I go to the airport I get there really early because it's something that you have no control over you're gonna stand in that TSA line and those people are gonna take forever and that's the way it is and if you want to get mad at them it doesn't matter you can't you can't control it in any way you can stand at the back and my flight's leaving in 30 minutes and they'll be like whatever you should have showed up earlier yeah you can't control it

So in those situations, how do you control it? You show up early. You take ownership of it, you show up early. You don't just, oh, I don't know what happened. The traffic was bad. I mean, there's a million excuses you can give. If you get that attitude where you're not going to make excuses, you'll actually take ownership of the things,

and then you'll actually solve problems before they even happen. If I'm going to an appointment and I have the excuse of my back of my head that, you know what, if I'm late, I'll just say it was the traffic. I have much more increased chance of being late. Yeah. All right. So what's what that's that's that's one of the things that makes extreme ownership hard is it hurt your ego. It hurts your ego.

It hurts your ego. It hurts your ego to admit that you have control over things that went wrong. That's that there it's your fault. That hurts your ego. Yeah. It's also effective because of that. It's effective because you solve problems. Like I said before they even happen, you solve them because you take ownership of them.

Yeah. But isn't this just a bunch of semantics? though like excuses and reasons because really when it comes down to it excuse is like an excuse like you're excused like the reason is a reason for sure but

it's like well that's with this whole conversation yes it is about semantics and the semantics are for me an excuse is something that you could have controlled and a reason is something that you could not control aren't they all reasons so it's up to I mean again you say tomato I get it

but come on hey you brought it up So you can, okay, so I remember when I was in elementary school, you get, you come late to school. You get in trouble unless you have an excuse. Now with it's, there's a difference between, and I'm saying in the, in the field, in class, right? You come, you come into class. If you have just your own excuse, like, oh, my, you know, dog ate it. I don't know. That's for homework, but whatever.

That's different than if you have an excuse. slip which is an official slip you know your parents or your whatever you went to the office I'll support your movement to get excuse slips change to reason slips right right because that's what is it's a legitimate reason exactly the kid had chicken pox can't come you can't come yeah you there's nothing you got chicken pox that's what that's what that's how yeah that's how so but now given that now aren't we just talking about a very like a standard from case to case so like let's go back to elementary school but bear with me you want to get to the bottom of this I'm telling you okay if you if your

parents had a thread if your parents had car trouble right yeah is that an excuse for a nine year old for a nine year old yeah it is it is a reason for a so that falls on the hierarchy of standards but within the standard of being a quote unquote legitimate excuse right because that's really what it is so a reason in your case or in Yeah, a reason is a language, a legitimate excuse. Yeah. That's a reason as far as this question goes. Absolutely.

In fact, I think I use the word legitimate in this. I was talking about it. Yeah, yeah. And so using the word reasons rather than excuse is just like, okay, let's make the language more simple rather than, because if you have an excuse, if you have an excuse, that's an ex- by its very nature, by its very definition, you're excused. It's an excuse. You're excused from being late or being late to your point.

Whatever. But if it's weird, because if someone else gives it to you, gives you the excuse, like, your excuse, hey, the guy was about to commit suicide, I get it, man. Your excused kind of thing. It's like, that's an excuse. In this case, a legitimate one. But if you give it to yourself, that's the excuse that nobody likes, right? Like, hey, man, traffic.

Oh, you should have prepared for that. Hey, man, my, you know, whatever was going on and this and that. Oh, man, you got to prepare for that. See what I'm saying? Yeah, I guess so. So there you go. So reasons and legitimate excuses, same thing. Yeah, I'll give you that.

You could have said that like four minutes ago, but we're going. I'm just saying you got to explain this thing because sometimes they're hard to understand. I'm telling you. No. See, the more you talked about it, the less I understood it until you said the last thing. I had to sum it up. Okay, the summary was great. I gave you a B plus on the summary.

All right, Pat, thanks. I'll take it. Thank you. Yeah. Next question. Jocko. Hindsight is 2020, but here's a crazy thought. North Korean soldiers would have ended up with a better life like South Korea if they did not fight as they did in the 50s.

When should a soldier question his leader's values? That is not a crazy question at all. And the answer is very straightforward. A soldier should always question their leaders, not just their leaders' values, but their leader's plans, their leader's strategies, their leader's vision, you should question everything that your leader is telling you. And if you see something is wrong, then you should raise your hand and call it out. And I would say not only is it something that you should do, it's actually your duty.

It's actually your duty is to raise your hand as a soldier. And I'll tell you, this doesn't only apply to the military. It applies to any organization. and it might sound like I'm encouraging mutiny or rebellion, but actually the opposite is true. If you have a team that questions the leader, the leader doesn't become weaker, the leader becomes stronger. If he's a good leader, if he's on the right path,

if he's doing the right thing, he becomes stronger because everyone starts to understand why things are happening. They understand the vision more fully. If the leader doesn't have a good vision, and he's getting questioned and he can't answer the questions. Yeah, he might have a mutiny on his hands, but it's not because the people are asking questions because he doesn't know what he's doing.

So the leader can't see everything and he can't solve every problem or have every idea, but the collective mind of an organization can make that happen. And that's why as a leader, if I'm in a leadership position, I want my subordinates to question me. I want them to question me. And like I said, if I don't have a good answer, I either need to find one and if I can't find one then maybe I'm actually doing something wrong that's entirely possible and now from a if we want to talk about like a moral or an ethical perspective then absolutely and

And there was a group of high-ranking soldiers in Nazi Germany that tried to kill Hitler. And unfortunately, they failed. But they did the right thing in trying to kill him. They did the right thing. Like, not only did they question him, they knew he was wrong. And they said, okay, we're going to kill him. Now, do you put yourself at risk when you ask these questions? Because I'm sitting here saying, yeah, I want my subordinates to ask questions.

There's people that don't want their subordinates to ask questions. not good leader, not good leadership. That's not a good way to lead. I'm sorry. I'm telling you the truth. I mean, so there's a risk, because if your leader doesn't want you to ask questions and you raise your hands and ask a question and you do it in an untaxful way and you do it in a way that offense your leader, well, then you might end up getting fired.

Or if you try and kill Hitler, you might get killed yourself because that's what Hitler did. After his assassination attempt, he went and killed a bunch of people, including Rommel, his best general. Because he thought he was involved in it. So you're definitely taking a risk, but then you have to ask yourself, what is the alternative? So in a moral or ethical situation, what's the alternative? And I'm not saying there's no alternative because sometimes maybe you'd be better not trying to kill Hitler, but rise in the ranks and get to a situation where you can have more control and mitigate the damage that he's doing to the country, right? That's a possible consideration to take. Maybe you say, okay, you know what, Hitler, I'm going to be your guy and I'm going to, you know, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to,

do things so that way you can rise up in the ranks and be in a position where you can stop his bad decisions as opposed to if you try and kill him and you fail you you you know obviously once you're dead you don't have any influence over the organization same thing if you're in a business where there's something going on and you want to raise your hand and yet if you raise your hand you know that there's a risk that you might either a get fired or you might get demoted or you might get put out of your leadership position and now you're letting down now now you can't have an influence over the scenario anymore So that's that's something to consider as well Takes a significant level of moral courage to stand up in those situations and

You have to be tactful I think that's important to say you have to be tactful You have to have you don't walk in and just start questioning your leadership immediately you have to build a relationship for us First you have to grow your trust between each other and then once you have to have that you can then tactfully bring up questions and try and get to the bottom of why things are happening or why things are being done a certain way or another way question your leadership and if your leader don't get offended when you get questioned be happy be happy even when your kids do it even when your kids do it especially when your kids do it yeah because you always want to take that easy out

just do what I told you to do yeah do what I'm the dad Yeah, it's different than it's not what I say. Yeah, that's true. You caught yourself. Yeah, I like that. Oh, dang. Self policing over there. Outstanding.

What about when they always add the kids, when they always say why? And then, you're just thinking, you gotta be careful of, I'm speaking from experience. You know how, you know, this is old school, like, oh, why, oh, because of this, why, why, why, and then it gets fun to them just to say why. They don't even wanna know why,

now it just becomes a game. Then what, just shut it right down. Well, no. That's when you should. You just keep, oh, it's me against you now. Oh, no. Just go jih Tito on them. You, they ask why, you ask them a question back.

Why do you think it goes that way? And then they'll say, well, I don't know. Well, why? Why don't you know? Just one sweep. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to do that. Yeah, it's a good word.

Yeah, that's a real good actually. Speaking from experience, I got four kids. All right, good. Thank you for that. Next question. Jock. You say jiu jitsu makes you humble. Why do some jiu-jitsu instructors and many jiu-jitsu practitioners act like complete arrogant jerks?

Oh, yeah. That's a good one. That's a great question. And we haven't really talked about, have we talked about, I don't think we've talked about that. Now, I've talked about how some, like, there's bad apples in the jiu-jitsu community for sure. But the way that, the way that I talk about the jih Tijuana and the way we talk about it, like everybody that does jiu-jitsu. should be some Buddha-like enlightened being at one with the universe and totally free of any ego right because that's what we talk about jih Tutsu but like I said I've talked about the fact that

there's definitely bad people in jiu jit too and that's why you need to be careful when you're you know jih Tjitsu should not be a cult you you you should not be worshipping your instructor your instructor is a human being there's been jih Tijitsu people that have been wrapped up in all kinds of terrible stuff that every kind of crime you can imagine so again just like a person the military just like a seal just like being in the seal teams doesn't make you a good person it applies to everything else jiu jitsu just because you do jih Tjitsu just because you're a black belt and jih Tia doesn't make you a good person yeah like here's a good one just because you're a priest doesn't mean you're a good person

there's plenty of malevolent people out there that wear the cloth of God but actually practice the work of Satan so you have to apply that rule to everything and it's definitely the same with jih Tijuana and jiu jih Tzu is a power it's a position of power right when you're good at it you have some power over other people and some people are going to abuse that power if you have the right mindset jih Tzu is extremely humbling because you realize that what you realize when you do jiu-jitsu is that you can be beat by other people that's what you

realize and and it for the most part as a broad generalization if another human has been training longer than you they can beat you and this is especially in the beginning of jiu-jitsu right once you have once you get further along it's it that that gap closes up but in general if someone's been training six months and you've been training one you're gonna get beat there's very few exceptions to that if you've been training for a year And someone's been training for one month, you're going to beat that person that's been training for one month. That's just, and that covers a huge,

that covers all kinds of weight classes and athletic ability and all that stuff. The great athlete, total stud, have you been training for one month? And you've got someone, someone that's been training for a year, year and a half, it's going to be a problem. So if you realize that, when you start, that makes you humble. And if you remember that as you get better, It will keep you humble if you don't forget that But what happens is sometimes people

Forget that it's Jiu Jitsu that gives them the power to submit other people and it's not their power Right? It's not their power They believe that they are the power of Jiu Jitsu They think it's them and so they think they're better than anyone else and that what that is is that's arrogance That's what it is and it's ugly and I think really if I was to drill down I would say it's caused by people that are number one insecure right they're insecure so they just they get this thing that they're that they can dominate other people and they they relish it or you know also people that are just like

not that smart right yeah they don't realize they don't they don't put two and two together that like, oh, the reason I'm better, the reason I can choke this person is because I've been training longer than them. Right. That doesn't make me a better human being. Yeah. It just means I'm better at this one aspect

of being a human being. So I would say those are, yeah, those are some of the reasons. And if you end up at a school where people are arrogant, just don't train there. Go to a different school. Yeah.

Unless it's like the only school option you have. Yeah. And if it's getting in your way, I mean, because there's a difference, let's face it, like being arrogant is kind of strong, but, you know, being not humble in these teeny tiny little ways, you know, you run into that all the time, just these small ways. Still within the jiu jitsa community, though. You know, so, you know, this guy may always talk about how good his triangle joke is or something like this, you know, this kind of stuff.

And that's not to mention, like, that's not offensive, though. Yeah, exactly. Is it? Oh, okay. No. Yeah, I'm not offended by that. Like, I probably say, yeah, you do have a good. Yeah.

But you know how guys will brag and, you know, be. Like, oh, it's kick you this in that tournament or I don't know, something like that. It doesn't scream humble. You know, it doesn't necessarily. So maybe like that expectation or whatever. Okay, I think you kind of got to make a concession for those sorts of things. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Like, you know, this is something I talk about. It's a dichotomy of leadership. It's a dichotomy of the ego, right? You don't want to go to a school where no one cares if they win or loses. You want to go to scare. Like, where, hey, when we train here, we're training to beat each other. Like, we're training to win. Yeah. When you win, you're happy. There's ego on the map. For sure my ego's on the mat. I don't like to lose it. Don't like to tap. I don't leave it. It looks like great Yeah, but I mean at the same time I love to tap because that means I'm learning But you don't so that's that's acceptable like that's of course. Yeah, you want to train a place where there's competitiveness in the school Yeah, but this is totally different this is you know when you get people that are just arrogant jerks and they're definitely out there Yeah, but most I don't know. I don't want to say most that's the way it should be They haven't learned jihitsu correctly. Yeah, and that's not what jihitsu is meant to be I think you're in

my opinion. 100% right when you say it's like an insecure person and not the kind of like broken insecure. It's just, you know, like someone who's just a little bit insecure. You know, someone comes in like, especially if you're an, like a certain type of instructor. And you're used to like everyone just listening to every word you say. And then I don't know, a student or someone comes with something different than what you said or the opposite of what you said or something that kind of indicates that what you said isn't

100% correct. It's like, boom, you're going to defend that little position that you've kind of grown accustomed. to you know especially if you're even a little bit insecure you can at least have those feelings so and it's interesting how that even that this jiu jitzu once again reflects leadership in life if you get a guy if you get an instructor that gets shown a move but it's not his move and he gets mad about it yeah like your respect for the instructor goes down it doesn't go up if you get a guy that goes wow that's awesome let me see that again let me learn that let me incorporate that in my game that's a great

thing thanks for showing me yeah your respect for that teacher goes up yeah because you recognize that they're humble that they're evolving that they want to learn that they have an open mind, which is what you want to see in your leaders and in your jihitsu instructors. Boom. Yeah, so funny, Adam, Mason. A. Mason. Coach Adam.

Coach Adam, yeah. So he, I came in one time, he's teaching this move. And he, you know, he teaches really good. I was like, yeah, it's a good move, you know? And he's teaching it. And when he explained what this move was, it was a move that he just got beat with in a tournament that someone else did and obviously was really good.

and to me that really do you remember the move yeah yeah it was like um it was similar to the okay remember back in the day frank mir got this guy named pete Pete big tall guy Pete this is old school UFC oh yeah yeah Pete yeah was his maniac maniac maniac wasn't it the maniac he twisted his right is like an americana in an arm lock yeah overhook you know from the car yeah it was kind of like that but it was a straight arm lock yeah and the guy's name was philippe oh really wasn't it's him sylvia no it oh in the u.c was it was um frank meir did it to pete i think the name is pete he was a san diego guy actually oh okay he was old school i thought it was tim sylvia's he broke his arm in its shallow armbar that you might be thinking about that but um nonetheless when adam got hit

with it in the tournament it was against a guy named philippe gracie pao okay anyway so to me when Adam decides to teach that move that was like the opposite of what this arrogance is it's not like oh make a bunch of excuses and dismiss it because I'm dope you know and that was just so you know once in a lifetime situation he was like man this is a legitimate move it worked yeah it worked on me by the way and that's not to mention getting over the fact that you lost in a tournament and then now you're going to kind of revisit the whole situation by glorifying the move kind of thing so that's like the ultimate in humility my opinion there you go but it makes sense

I mean, not to say it's good or it's like an excuse or it's fine or not or even acceptable, whatever, but it does make sense though. Even like competitors, you know, like, oh, he said practitioners, but maybe competitors or whatever where, you know, you have the competitive aspect of it. And so you're going to talk a high game about your jiu jiu jitsu, you know, that's kind of how it is or whatever. To be an arrogant jerk, though, that, uh, yeah, I think that's like something that the human being brought into jujitsu, you know, and then the jiu jiu jutsu kind of just mixed it, you know, mixed in. That's what I think. That's what I think. That's what it seems like anyway. But I think for the most part, when you start jiu-jitsu,

it makes you more humble than you were before. 100% because of that reason. It really should. And if it doesn't, you're wrong. Yeah. Man, it's hard to imagine how it wouldn't, even like in an exceptional situation. No, it's because when people start to get good at it. And then they forget what it was like.

That's what happens. Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's what happens. And then it comes biting you one day, you know? No, you know what, but these guys, and here's the thing, when you've been in the game long enough, you see this super clear too, right? So let's say you get this, I don't know, this is a straw man, by the way.

So you get this guy, he gets humbled, right? He starts Jiu-Jitsu, he gets humbled, he gets good at Jiu-Jitsu, good at moves, he's tapping everybody out. Now he's an arrogant jerk. Now, when these other big dogs start coming in, he avoids rolling with him. Yeah, for sure.

He doesn't roll with, like, the higher belt, he doesn't compete, nothing like that. He only rolls with the lower belts. You know what I'm saying? You can do that. But here's the thing when people do that. It's so obvious. Yeah.

So obvious. Man, I remember when I started Jiu-N and this was like a few, like a year or two years in, I remember being like kind of apprehensive, not apprehensive, not apprehends, kind of scared, actually. And I was working at the club where you kind of walk around and, you know, in the nightclub situation, it's, you can't help but be like. You don't know if this guy knows J-J-Zu-Zu-ex. Exactly, man. I'm worried where it's like, man, I got to just.

Yes, 100%. And, man, if there's not even a little bit of that in your head, it's like, man, Something must be weird. Because even me, I walk around like, hey, I'm pretty good at Jit-Too, but there may be somebody out there that's better. Yeah. And then what are you going to do? So be careful who you run your mouth to.

How's that? How about you treat people with respect? How's that? Sounds like a good idea to me. And that's the result of being humbled and humility in general. Man, think about it, though, in the nightclub. Like, everyone's criticizing each other up, and it's kind of this thing that's the climate. You know, that's what it feels like.

Man, I remember thinking like this skinny guy right here, especially a tall skinny guy, Who in if you didn't know about you just a tall skinny guy You know non-factor kind of thing But now it's like man if you get caught in an arm bar a choke in on the you know on the streets so to speak Right here in big trouble big trouble huge trouble stay humble stay humble But yes that's the explanation I agree with you hundred percent Next wish unless you want to talk about you some more some more cuz I could if you want We could you could you could you could

I'd listen. Next question. When you grow in size in an organization, do you have to change the principles of combat leadership from extreme ownership or adopt new ones?

No. Oh, wait, but I ask this kind of weird tone. You asked it a little bit too. Do you have to do either of these, right? That's kind of the question. Do you have to change the principles

or adopt new ones? Do you have to do that? No. The answer is no. As a matter of fact, when your organization gets bigger, the only change you have to make is to get better at the laws of combat. That's what you have to do. So as you grow, you have to work harder to build relationships with other divisions so that you can cover and move for each other, right? That's that's a given. You have to get better at keeping things simple because the message has to be spread to more people. So word has to be spread that is simple, clear, and concise. That makes sense. You have to learn how to prioritize and execute better because there's a larger group of people that have to shift their focus on whatever priorities coming out it's that you have a bigger ship to turn and you have to do this accurately and quickly and there's less room for error in shifting priorities when you have a bigger organization and of course for decentralized command you have to get better to that because in a small organization it's it's pretty easy right you don't really

You don't really have to do these in decentralized command if you got five people working for you you can actually just control You don't really have to use decentralized command it's a place to begin it and and Instill that Culture but you can get away without it because you can actually you can actually watch everyone you can direct everyone you can influence Everyone you can actually lead them directly when you're in a small organization So you don't have to be all that great at decentralized command But as you get bigger you just can't do that anymore So the only way to

watch everyone and direct everyone and influence everyone and lead everyone the only way to do that is through your subordinate leadership is through decentralized command so you have to be better at that now I will say that the the one thing that you maybe have to adjust it's not really a principle but you you are going to have to look at your communication methods you're going to look at your communication methods you just aren't going to be able to meet with everyone face-to-face anymore you don't have time when you your organization when your organization gets big enough you won't there'll be employees there and subordinate leaders that you'll never see maybe some you know some that you've

never been on a call with so how do you get the message how do you get the mission all the way through the organization we have to do with decentralized command but how do you communicate it and my thing is always like you have to communicate in every available method and the bigger you get the more the larger your organization is you got to take advantage of everything you got to take advantage of calls of emails of meetings of of physical documents that you know you put out and say everyone read this and and you make videos I'm making that recommendation a lot now to big larger organizations that I work with is why aren't

you know I'll ask them how often are you having an all-hands type meeting well it's really hard because you can't really get face-to-face with everyone because we've got multiple different not only multiple different areas but we got multiple different time zones so if we want you know you got someone on the other side of the ocean hey we want to have a meeting at a reasonable time it's impossible to have everyone at a reasonable time so what do you do okay eventually it's okay well why don't you make videos make it make it make a make a four-minute video that everyone can see and understand and see where the vision's going so all

these every different communication methods that you can hit all the different types of people because there's some people that like to read emails there's some people that won't watch a video but they'll they'll read an email they'll read a document there's some people that will not sit in a conference call but they'll go through the notes that gets sent out abridged notes it's so there's all kinds of ways to communicate and my advice is to use them all but the fundamental principles of leadership itself don't change so don't just stick to them actually get better and pay more attention to them check decentralized command that seems like the one but actually now what now that

you kind of explain it they all seem pretty important well they are all important and there and they are it's interesting They're actually in order What they're actually in order? Well, they're in order The way we wrote them in the book The way I originally talked about them

It was like number one cover move If you're not doing that's teamwork If you're not doing that You're not gonna do anything Number two is you gotta keep things simple Like you have to do that Because you can't cover move for someone else If you don't even understand what's going on

So it's got to be simple And then prioritize and execute Well there's gonna be things that are changed And things that are dynamic And so the next thing you gotta worry about It's like when things change how are you gonna prioritize? What's changing how you can handle these problems? But then the last one is

Decentralized command which is now that you've got those other four kind of stable now you can start really leading properly But for your to your credit if you flip those upside down in order of sort of broad organizational importance decentralized command is the most important one now you're not gonna have it without the other three Yeah, yeah, yeah Prioritize and execute is the next important one from an organizational perspective Keeping things simple is then the next one and so if you flip them upside down as an organization the level of importance inside the organization Is is is reversed but the way that you have to implement them And the and you the bottom lines you'll never get to decentralized command if you can't keep things simple

You don't come so you can't get there But in order to build them So in order to build them you have to kind of use them in order but then when you look at them When you look at them from the importance of of how well they make a team function. Right, yeah. Again, if you can't cover and move at all or you can't keep things simple,

you'll never get to decentralized command. But when you have someone that's working them all and they're all doing well, well, then the most important one is decentralized command. Decentralized command is the one that takes you the highest level, right? It'll have the most impact on your organization. You'll never get there without the other three,

but once you have those three and you implement decentralized command, you'll be absolutely, that'll be the most powerful thing in your organization. You can't do without the other three. It's the strongest, but it doesn't matter without the other three. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Check.

Next question. Jocco, how does your quote unquote play the games? Play the games in terms of completing the goal fit in with Jordan Peterson's agreeableness in terms of career advancement. Is it a case of right time right agreeableness? So this comes from Jordan Peterson talking about how people that are more agreeable. Have less success in promotion and salary than someone that is more assertive So it's a really good question because this person is taking what I talk about which is play the game right and and Thinking that that means agreeableness and it does to some extent it absolutely does to some extent and

So so that's this a really good question and the answer is that there's a dichotomy to this that they're like like like All of life and like all of business and like all of leadership there's a dichotomy because While while while someone that is agreeable like like very agreeable certainly has less of a chance of Career advancement than someone that is assertive Right that makes sense like if you never say hey, I'll do that or hey, let me let me handle that project if you don't ever do that And someone says hey no, I'll do this and you go okay. That's fine and you we're gonna promote this guy. Okay. That's fine. You know if you're that agreeable. Well yeah, it's gonna be problematic but also when When assertiveness turns into overly aggressive, the chances of advancement start to go back down again. And when you take someone that's, when you get to someone that is ultra aggressive and rubs people the wrong way and won't do any compromising, that person's going to be at the same person, same level of advancement as someone that's super agreeable.

Or at least in the same ballpark, they'll be close if they still have a job at all, by the way. Because someone that's, you know, overly aggressive and won't compromise with anyone and calls everyone out. the if they're the complete far end of the spectrum opposite to agreeableness that's going to be a problem so so when I talk about playing the game I'm I'm definitely talking about being agreeable because I'm telling you to be more agreeable right when you don't play the game it's like hey we're going to think this we're going to run this new project that's project is stupid mm-hmm well an agreeable person say okay well that sounds good where we're going with this now an agreeable person that's too agreeable might go down the road of something that's not a good plan

But if you're overly aggressive, if you're not playing the great game at all, you're not going to get past go. Right? So when I say play the game, I am talking about being a girl. Now I was talking to someone the other day who's pretty hardcore and he was feeling some heat from his boss in a company that I was working with. And he wanted to fight back. I wanted to fight back. Hashtag resist. And he wanted to fight back.

We want to go beyond that. He wanted to go beyond resist. He wanted to go like into the aggressive mode. And I told him don't fight back. I said play the game and he sort of got aggressive because like I said he's pretty hardcore guy He started getting aggressive with me and started saying like oh that's what I should do now bow down It kissed the ring. I'm not gonna do that. I'm a man right? It came at me with that with that angle And then he said this which was interesting He goes you know he said something along once book you would take this kind of crap. Why should I?

And I stayed quiet for a minute I heard him say that and I was like, oh, you just serve me a bull softball. And then, you know, I took a big breath and I'm like, you have no idea. You have no idea the things that I have done, the pride that I have swallowed, the dumb jokes I've laughed at, the idiotic plans I've supported, the insane lengths that I had to go through throughout my career, my entire career to win. To win in the end, that was my goal. order to win you gotta play the game you gotta massage some egos you have to accept some things that you normally might not accept you have to eat some humble pie some from time to time and what you're doing and why you do those things is so that

you can build so that you can build confidence with your boss that's what you're doing so you can build trust with your boss and you do that so that in the end if your boss is not a good guy you can actually beat the boss you can But you can't win if you don't play the game. You'll lose before you even start so play the game. That's what I told this guy, right? Now can you do you have to balance this? Yes, you absolutely do because if you become a sycophant and you just become a brown noser Am I talking about becoming a brown noser? No Because if you do that you're losing clout and influence with your with your team or with your subordinates or with your peers because you're brown nosing the boss and you're losing clout there So you have to you and you won't win because those guys are gonna get pissed at you

They're not gonna support you so I'm not saying you go overboard You have to have balance you have to know when to say yes when to appease When you know I built so much Clout I built clout by doing things that people wanted me to do that like maybe I was kind of a weird project or they want me to try some Piece of equipment out's like cool. Yeah, I'll try it. We'll write you a good report about it. You know what I mean like? Like Oh yeah, you want me to try some new tactic? Cool, we'll give me a try. In my mind, I'm thinking this is dumb.

But you know what? Hey, let's give it a try. Oh, you know what? It didn't work as well as I was hoping it would, but you know, here's some points we took away from it. Okay. The guy at least as opposed to saying that new tactic is stupid. Your plan is dumb. Okay.

I'm disagreeable. What's that going to get me? It's not going to get. I'm being too assertive. I'm being too aggressive. So you have to balance it. You have to know when to tactfully stand up and disagree with someone instead of being totally agreeable all the time and I'm not talking about being agreeable all the time I'm talking about

And that's playing the game Yeah, so playing the game is not Being a A submissive agreeable Baby, right? That's not that's not playing the game Yeah Playing the game is playing balance is knowing when is building trust it's

it's doing some dumb things, showing respect. It's just playing the game. And you're playing the game to win. That's what you're playing the game for. Yeah. Yeah, and I get it. You know, like playing the game,

you know, maybe got viewed as like being agreeable. But when Jordan Peterson talks about agreeableness, he's talking about a personality trait. He's not talking about like some action you took to do something, you know? Well, yeah, but agreeableness has resulting actions. If you're an agreeable person, Yeah, yeah, fully. But when it comes, when it stems from a personality trait,

that means just like how you said, like you're going to be agreeable for the most part regardless. Like I forget what the other trait is called about, you know, success when he was talking about that. But nonetheless, like if you're talking about playing the game, meaning sure, you might have to display some agreeableness every once in a while to kind of size it when you have to or when you, you know, when it's useful.

That does not mean you're an agreeable person as a personality trait. It's a way too, two different, completely different things. I'm definitely not saying that you're gonna be able to train your change your personality Yeah, because I'm not a very agreeable person. I agree with people all day long Right. Why? Because I'm trying to win. That's the point exactly right. I actually disagree with 89% of the things that I hear on a daily basis You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, I'm literally trying to figure out right now as I'm thinking about this So many things I disagree with there's two things that are going on number one

This is this is straight up number one if you give me an idea Mm-hmm and I go that's dumb and Mm-hmm. Number one, I'm arrogant. I'm not listening. I'm shutting the idea out when your idea might have some good traits to it. Number two, you're pissed. Yeah.

Right? I didn't gather any clout with you. I didn't build our relationship at all. I just said like, hey, that's a dumb idea. No, so instead I'm gonna be like, okay, well, tell me about it. Yeah. Tell me, like, how would you, how would you implement this idea of yours? Because maybe it could have some good benefit.

I could see where you're coming from on this. Yeah. Well, now I'm, I'm building our relationship and you're thinking that, hey, Hey, this guy listens to me and that's what I like and someone I work with. Someone that listen to me. So those are the kind of things that we're talking about. I'm not talking about changing your personality I'm a disagreeable I'm a disagreeable human being, but I don't show that very often I don't there's something I was talking about I was talking about this

Who's I talking to? I forget who I was talking to but I was talking about how I never ever like there's some things that really bother me Sure in the world and I never tell anyone what they are. I will not. I'll go to the group maybe I'll put like In my last will and testament things that bothered me But I will but but but but I don't tell anyone Yeah why well the main reason is because when you're in the teams and people know what bothers you They're gonna get it They're gonna tear you up with that thing so you will never I'll never say it won't tell my kids won't tell my wife nothing

When something happens that really really bothers me Because I'm disagreeable I don't like that kind of stuff is it like pet peevekin stuff or is All right personality traits I don't like the way people communicate sometimes I don't like little pet peeves that I have of things that people do that I don't like I don't know knows any of them No one knows that they're all deep undercover and I will never tell anyone what they are You want to I feel like you should kind of tell me just so I avoid these things because I'm very agreeable in that way Yeah, where I don't want to do that stuff like if I'm saying you know people say I don't know I'm saying know what I'm saying or like if I say like I say like a lot do you not like that is that one of the things

I'll never tell anyone I'll never tell anyone all right what these things are all right all right Cool. You're you're the target list for you it's not that big I'm at low risk All right I'm still on the radar though all right. I'm so yeah hey everyone play the game Play the game I know it's everyone wants it that's the funny thing is everyone thinks like Jocco's all hardcore no take no crap from nobody it looks like no actually I'm gonna play the game Because you know why I'm gonna win that's the difference I'm gonna win yeah that was kind of part of your story too

When when the guy was was that a face-to-face thing when you're talking you're talking you're talking about the guy who said it was so there was like a built-in assumption right there when he said you wouldn't take that grab oh wait wait oh actually let me tell you what my life has been like yeah and you and of course they're looking at me now and they're think well he just he just uh aggressively crushed everyone on his rise to the top right it's like no not true at all yeah maneuvered yeah like played the game yeah yeah nothing wrong with playing the game yeah now again this We're not talking about like you just become a kiss ass. That's not what I'm talking about. Yeah. Being a kiss ass is equally bad. Yeah. It's equally bad. You lose just as much respect not only from your peers, not only from your subordinates, but also from the person that you're working with. Yeah. They even know you're a kiss ass and they'll run rough shot all over you. And when it comes time to promotion, they're like, you know what? I want to promote the other guy because it doesn't really matter. This guy was going to get to kiss my ass regardless. Yeah. Because you're too, you're too agreeable. Yeah. So I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm going to promote the other guy. Because I'm not. You're too agreeable. Yeah. So I'm. So I'm. So I'm. So I'm not talking about this this is a dichotomy yeah yeah yeah that yeah man so you again the point

that I was making that I think there might have been a misunderstanding given the question like play the game isn't the same as this agreeableness that Jordan Peterson is talking about it's different they're not the same thing well you know yeah it seems like the question that he thought he it was the same thing yeah he exactly he thinks that playing the game is being agreeable yeah it's not yeah it might sometimes right right Agting agreeable. It might be agreeing to some things that make you a little bit frustrated Yeah, but you roll with it You're rolling with it. You're playing to win. You're playing the long game

This is a joke this conversation we're having with my with my boss with my support of it It's a joke that thing doesn't matter to me yeah, I don't care if I win this argument I'm playing this long game over here like a win you ever watch survivor? No come on bro. You ever watch Survivor? No, I mean I've seen shows yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, so I don't watch the right? Well, I do. I mean my wife does so Is this so on? I didn't know so a show I think I've ever watched a show I think I've I've seen I think it's still on yeah okay so survivor playing the game and that's a term that is all up all up in survivor playing the game so okay once around take too long on survivor but it's it's totally in line with what you're talking about so survivor you know they throw and here's what the

basis just the prime raw basis of survivor you throw a bunch of people on i know everyone knows the basis yeah you do some challenges vote each other off you vote each other off with certain you know, advantages, you can win, and whatnot, right? Rewards, whatever you mean. So, and how it turned itself, like, what it morphed kind of into, just by nature is like this little political game within the game, right? And now it's just a huge overt part of Survivor, the political game. I'm playing the game.

I'm building alliances. I'm doing all this stuff or whatever. It's the exact same thing, man. Exact same thing. I'm building relationships or whatever. Yeah. Let me tell you what the huge difference. Is this is a huge difference in that game you're playing the game to win for yourself

Yeah, and what I'm talking about and this is a this is a such a huge part of the way I think That I didn't even talk about it because it's just embedded in the way I think if you're playing the game to Further yourself and further your own career you're it's not gonna work for you Yeah because when you play the game like that it's the same thing as like kissing ass It's the same thing as you're you're doing things because you want the advantage and people will identify that if you're making If you're playing the game so that your team can win so that you can accomplish the mission That's when this works that's when playing the game works otherwise if you're doing it to promote yourself It's not gonna work and it might work once or twice and it might get you one promotion

But everyone that saw you get promoted after you kissed ass they're all pissed at you They're gonna undermine you and you're gonna go down But you know what's so it's so interesting about what you just said there is that you're absolutely right Survivor is like the one guy right so playing the game I'm playing the game right anytime someone says that like hey I'm playing the game they They do it in this context where it's like so and that's okay. We're here. It's a game. So it's acceptable.

I'm playing the game. But they'll always say it as an excuse for like lying to someone or backstabbing someone. And it's so weird how that you're exactly right. That's the nature of the game. So when you play the game in this content, you know, at work or the way you're talking about, it's always a good thing. As long as you're doing it for the team. Yes, exactly right. So it's not always a good thing because there's people that play the game and they play the game so that they are

going to, you know, I just said this 10 times. It's like, I play to win. But yeah, I play for my team to win. I play for us to be able to accomplish the mission. Yeah. That's why I'm playing the game. Yeah. If you're playing the game so that you can get the promotion or that's not going to,

and like I said, it might work once or twice, but it's not a long-term solution. Yeah. Yeah. Guarantee it's not a long-term solution. Yeah. That's a strong statement. I guarantee it's not a long-term solution. Yeah.

Now, what if you, now, here's an example, just taking, well, this one step further, you could play the game. To get that one promotion and then you could go okay now I can play the game to help the team right But you had to do some maneuvering to get into a spot where you could help That's a tricky one because people still think you're a jerk right because of what you did Yeah, but then you get there and it's gonna take you a long time to build that trust back up because you maneuvered And you got collateral damage around there Yeah, it's not a good thing's not hard to clean up that collateral damage

Yeah man so you said you can't always do it actually Yeah, careful you know how you say you'll lose a battle to win the war kind of thing So now in your little example that right there you're like you you you lost a battle to win a little mini war to essentially lose a bigger battle to win even a bigger war These are things that could happen all this little it's just like in jiu jitza you sacrifice a position Because you know you're gonna end up with a area of the game that you're really good at yeah right? I mean what think about pulling guard what's pulling guard yeah, that's exactly what you're you're sacrificing being on the bottom because you're good at it yeah for a for a for a bigger victory yeah this game goes deep man this stuff goes deep indeed playing the game.

All right. Next question. Hey, Jocco. I'll be heading to Marines OCS soon, and I know how crucial leadership is for success at OCS, TBS, and as a Marine. My question is, what happens if you make a decision as a leader that you can rationalize as the best decision for the team, but the result is not a good one?

Well, my superiors want to see that I'm making quality decisions or producing the best results. I know good decisions usually lead to good results, but when it doesn't, what's the next best way to handle that situation, one under evaluation at OCS? Well, like you said, if you make good decisions,

generally the outcome's going to be good. But it is a correct statement that sometimes you make good decisions and they have bad outcomes. And in combat, that can definitely happen if you decide to go left instead of right. If you look to the left and you look to the right and the left has better cover than the right,

and so you go to the left, and then the the enemy happened to be happen to have mortars dialed in in that area and so as soon as you go to the left even though there's better cover you get overhead fire indirect fire and people get blown up

and people get killed that may have been a good decision but the result was bad and there's no way you could have known that so what do you do in those situations you made the best decision that you could with the information that you had at the time and it turned out

to be a bad result as a matter of fact in Ramadi when when they had a phrase to describe if someone took a shot at what they presumed was a bad guy but it turned out to be let's say a civilian they would say and they would investigate heavily to find out what happened and depending on the situation and what happened most of the time they would call good shot bad result meaning a soldier marine someone was looking down a street and they see something and they see something suspicious and then they see an actual individual out there carrying out enemy tactics techniques or procedures and they judge the situation to the best of their ability and and all of a sudden pressure

arises and he sees something else that also is enemy activity or enemy procedures and then sees a friendly force approaching and say okay these guys are in danger I got to do something takes a shot and it turns out that what the person was doing once they investigate you know someone goes and you know sees what the person was doing they were doing something that was not nefarious it just didn't happen a lot but it definitely it definitely happened and so the the term that they would use would be good shot bad result and as long as the as long as there was logic to the decision that was being made and the people that the person that took the shot

owned it and said here's what I saw this is the shot that I took I that's what happened I own it and you know the upper chain of command would then say okay well number one is there anything we can learn from this is there anything that we could learn to to prevent this from happening again and if we can then we spread that word and tell everyone what happened and why it happened and if there's any way improve the decision-making process. Now, the biggest mistake, so that's what you do.

You own it, you see what you can learn from it, and you move on. And your leadership or your instructors are going to see the same thing. They're going to see that you had a logic. If you can explain why you made a decision, now, your explanation might be bad. You know, your explanation might be bad.

You might have prioritized wrong. You might have read the terrain wrong. You might have assumed that the enemy was going to do something and they did something else. Those are bad, bad things that led to your decision. bad choices those are bad assessments those are mistakes that you made and so those what led to your your logic may be fault faulted would that be a like a ding

against you in a in a good yes it would so it wouldn't be a good shot yeah because if you said well I thought that the guy was I thought there was a curfew yeah in the area well there was no curfew why did you not know that you know what I mean like so not a good shot that's an excuse yeah right that's not a Good shot you you took a shot that your logic doesn't right right get you there Yeah, but the other big miss I'd say the biggest mistake of course that people make when they make a bad decision is or Things that don't make sense is that they defend them or they blame other people they blame other circumstances and that's what they say Well, no one told me no one told me that that or the the sergeant was pointing in that direction so that's where I told everyone to go like no don't do that don't don't don't don't

Make excuses right don't make excuses It's like saying well I did a perfect job but the but the enemy used mortars and that's out of my control Like no instead of saying so like the first case like if you if you went left instead of right and you ended up getting mortared And you know you instead of well the I didn't expect the enemy to use mortars That's that's not my fault instead you should say you know what I should have done a better job assessing the mortar threat And I should have had more space between my troops because that's another thing that I screwed up is my troops are too close together and so we had multiple get wounded with one mortar round that shouldn't happen and we could have moved quicker through that area which i failed to do so those are the things i'm going to fix next time and there you have it

there you have it don't make excuses if you own it and you explain what you can do better the instructor's going to agree and they're going to move on and if you make excuses the instructors are going to eat you live and by the way if you make bad decisions continually and you keep owning them well let's say you keep making bad decisions and so you start thinking yourself well I can't take ownership this anymore I'm gonna get kicked out of here well guess what so then you start making excuses for him you're really gonna get out of there then you're really gonna get out of there so that's something to keep in mind also keep in mind that the instructors know everything that's happening they can see so much more than you can and I know this because I was an instructor

for a law I was running the training for a long time you can see so much one a classic example when you go through officer candidates go you're not allowed to look at your food. And when I first, they say, don't look at your food. So I sat down the first meal. And I'm like, well, no one's going to know if I'm looking at my food. How can they tell? And so I just glanced down on my food. Instantly, there's drill instructors all over you, yelling at you and they're, and they're, and I'm thinking, how the hell did they know? 13 weeks later or 12 weeks later at Officer Candidate School, you're a candidate officer, which means you're now kind of in between the recruits and the drill instructors. And so you're allowed to walk around

And you're reinforcing and you go to the one of the tables where there's 30 recruits sitting there or officer candidates sitting there and you look down the line and when someone glances at their food for a millisecond it's completely obvious it's so completely obvious you can't hide it I'm talking just their eyes are moving it's so obvious And that's what it's like with everything when you're going through tactical training the instructors can really see a lot they can't see it that much because it's a little less control But they can see a lot and also they have things planned and part of the plan is that you're gonna fail sometimes They're gonna set it up that way and they want to see how you react to that They want to see how you handle the stress number one of an unwinnable situation and then when you fail how do you react to failure itself? Do you just blame or do you else? Do you not it wasn't my fault because that's what you're doing It's gonna be problematic and the last thing I would say to this guy here Do you relax a little bit? Right? Because you haven't even gone to OCS yet and yet you're

fearing judgment you're fearing not being considered to be perfect and you're not going to be perfect and you're going to be absolutely judged it's okay be humble do your best and have a great time it's awesome military training so fun interesting I've heard mixed opinions about that but hey I get it I'll tell you you know why you know why it's easy to see you looking at your food why tell you why it's an anatomical thing when you look down your eyelids and eyelashes all that stuff goes boom they just they shift down and it's super obvious physically to see yeah yeah notice that if you look side to side not much only your little eyeball or whatever but if you look down but

you can't look down without doing your eyelids you'm saying like you get I guess so like when you look down you your eyelids just and your eyelashes all I know is this it's real obvious yeah real obvious that's funny though yeah because I I thought the same thing I thought I was gonna get get oh no you can't and it's not like you can act like you're looking at something else and you can't do that because you know you got a straight ahead It was actually so funny how I got so busted and how cocky I was thinking how are they going to stop me from looking at my food I'll just glance down and they just are on you and like 50 other guys by the way yeah and you look down and they just jump on it's crazy it's funny I feel like this this kind of thing may be a good way to look at it and I'm only going on based on kind of what you said but like any any decision like situation where you got okay I got to make the right call or the right you know you know you know

tactics or what you know to get a certain result or whatever it's it really when you kind of think about it more what I do anyway it there's always an element of chance right remember how like okay so I'm going to the post office right I'm driving there there is like okay so me saying okay I'm gonna go to go the safest route to the post office I'm to get there but boom I'm gonna deliver or mail my thing I'm gonna come home the chance that I get killed in one way or another car accident you know whatever whatever is there very small but it's still there so and not to say you know not to say the the how big or small the chance these things are I'm just saying there is an

element of chance regardless how big how small of something getting in the way of your success even if you make all the right decisions oh yeah or if you make the wrong decisions there's chance just involved in general here you just maybe think of something that can that can jam people up as you like to say sure and this is something that guys used to say to me and so you need to try and avoid this people would say I was trying to make I was trying to do what what I thought you would want me to do Right? Like I thought that's what you would want to see. That's what they'd say I thought that's what you want me to do I thought that's what you want to see

So if you start playing that game like you start assessing what's going on and then you start adding a layer of like what do the instructors want me to do right here Yeah, the chances are that that's not going to turn out well because you're trying to predict what what you should do is look at what's happening and make the best decision possible from your from your from your perspective it with the minute you start thinking they you know they just taught a class on on breaking contact they probably want me to break contact right here so you call a break contact and then everyone runs away and they go why did you break contact there was one guy with a rifle and you had a 40 man platoon what's wrong with you and they go and then and then what you say is well I thought you wanted us to know we want you to run a good tactical situation

yeah don't do what people what you think will people People want you to do don't do that generally I'm not saying don't weigh it at all Because they're teaching you something yeah but don't be stupid yeah don't be stupid that's good advice But yeah but see see I'm saying though that that chance is always there yeah, there's always chance you gonna and it's weird how like when when you when you're successful in something I don't know whatever even even like in like life like if you're you're I don't know your career or something when you're successful in it you don't really talk about the chance element, you know, but if you're unsuccessful, that's when you'll be like, oh, just, hey, it's just bad luck, you know,

hey, these chance kind of situations or whatever. So it seems like, you know, like, given what you said, that his kind of objective or his kind of outlook or his way of being when he goes into the situation is, hey, man, sure, there's going to be these chance, there's going to be a chance that the result isn't going to be that good. There's a chance. And there's a chance that's going to be good or whatever,

but focus on the decision sounds. decision making and then if hey if the chance comes or the lock or the probability improbable situation or whatever that kind of negates your good decision making with its bad result then amen still focus on your decision making don't be like oh it's luck true someone else's thing that I had no control over kind of thing what you say it's true next question jocco in jujitsu I telegraph my moves when I fought my focus on whatever escape or submission I'm attempting and it's pretty obvious to who I'm training with

How do I learn to work on a particular move while actually setting up another move at the same time? Essence of the jiu-jitsu Dave Burke question by the way Interesting yeah Okay, so good question and actually reveals something pretty cool about Jiu-jitsu in many cases in jiu-jitsu especially in like the first three to five years of And that that's a pretty big span, but what's interesting about is is that the setups for moves are actually other moves, right? So and you actually have to attempt the other move Legitimately in order for it to work as a setup. So if you're mounted on someone and you want to arm lock somebody don't grab their arm. That's the telegraph. What you do is you go for the choke and you don't just face it. I'm gonna feel like somebody. Don't grab their arm.

That's the telegraph. What you do is you go for the choke. And you don't just fake go for the choke. You go for the choke. You put those, you dig in, you grab some ghee, you start to attack their neck. And obviously, if they don't defend, then you choke them, which is awesome.

So you go for the choke for real. But if they lift up their arm to defend their neck, which they should do, then boom. The arm lock is exposed, and you take it. That's the way it works and the same thing goes with Cameras It's like the Camira sweep guillotine you know that combo from the guard? It's real like a basic one that you learn the beginning Yeah the bump sweep the Kamiura and the guillotine from the guard The the defense for each one of those is the setup for the other

And there's so many you know Jiu Jitsu like that's what Jiu Jitsu is right? I mean it's like trying alarm lock It's it's it just that's the way it is yeah you have to commit to the moves You can't just like if you do a half-hearted attempt to do a sit-up sweep on me I'm not going to give you the reaction that you need to Get a guiche on me right if you don't push me back hard enough. I'm not gonna lean forward enough and not gonna be able to grab my neck Yeah, so it's not gonna work Now as you progress in jiu-jitsu you you able to start attacking other things like for instance you can attack someone's balance As a setup you can attack their base you can attack their posture as a setup You can attack their arm position.

So you can attack, the better you get at Jiu-Jitza, you can attack some conceptual things. Dean said something like that the other day. I was like, dang, that's smart. What he was saying was, he's like, hey, he said the person on the bottom can't fall down. Dean said that. Yeah.

It sounds like, something. I know. It's one of those things that's profound. Yeah. Right? The person on the bottom can't fall down. Yeah. You can't mess with my balance at all.

But I can mess with you. If you're on top, I can mess with your balance. That's one of the key things that I try and mess with. Your balance. You can't mess with my balance, I'm on the ground. Yeah. Think about that one. Actually, you did say that, that Dean said that,

but I don't know if he said that you can't knock me down when I'm on the ground. Yeah, well, that may be just the way I put it, but that's the truth. Let's see. These principles, obviously, they apply not only to Jiu-Jitsu, but they apply to the battlefield and they apply to business because if you fake a frontal assault to expose the enemy's flank But you don't put enough firepower in the frontal assault

Then the enemy doesn't have to react to it So they just kind of keep their perimeter secure and then when you flank them their flank is defended Yeah, so it's the same exact thing Yeah, you have to commit enough to throw the persons to to make the person react Yeah, if you don't give them enough they're not gonna react in the business world If you come up with a if you put up a new product to contend with your competitor in some market But the product isn't strong enough that it becomes any kind of threat well then the competitors not to contend with it all And you've actually wasted effort

So if you're gonna go go go Go get the reaction that you need if you're gonna execute a move to set up your opponent it has to be strong enough to elicit a real real reaction That's what you have to do Yeah, you could do something that's like a little distraction. That's a little different than a setup. Yeah. Right? You can distract someone.

Usually the distraction is much more minor than a real setup. Yeah. I can get you thinking about something else while I go over here. Yeah. Not as effective. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. That's so interesting. I think Dave Burke mentioned that idea to me before. Wait, is this a question from Dave Burke straight up? Yeah. So, and here's another thing. kind of early in the in the in the in the game to and which is a good thing because he's thinking about this stuff already yeah but I think generally speaking like these

those types of tactics like where I'm gonna go for this and then when he reacts to that thing I went for then I'm gonna really do my real move kind of thing and and there can be chains too by the way I can do one thing yeah yeah because that's the advanced you just and the next thing yes and the more you advance two people get when they're rolling against each other the more that you'll see so but being early on or the more of it you won't see I remember when Dean and I were training like maniacs burking the days sure and people would watch us and it barely even like jih Tzu because the movements

were so subtle like you sometimes you wouldn't even like I would just feel his weight shift and I would immediately shift my weight and so there's three or four offensive and defensive moves that happened and there's barely any movement that's visual because it's all in the weight yeah yeah so when you mean when you don't see it's like it's just so subtle that you don't see it from the outside but it's yeah to but totally still there of course um so that's that's that's kind of good that he i think anyway that he's thinking that you know how to do that but i think what's more important given the stage and this is real generally speaking because people are different

but um learn the the the moves you know the crisp like move like how like how to do an arm lock where your hips should be and shouldn't be and what makes a arm lock a good arm lock and what makes arm lock for example a bad arm lock you know where it's like you know how you some guys can do an arm lock but it's like super easy to escape because you have these three details that you just didn't do even though you know what an arm lock is kind of thing so I think I think anyway that when when you start to get those things down you're like brown belt no yeah yeah yeah allie yeah yeah he's got a good yeah you got a good arm lock yeah you got to watch out for that thing but he's an example of like his arm lock is really good and everyone's got the really good moves yeah yeah that's a good example

And when you get a handful of those down or you just your general game down in in that particular way Then you can start like leaking into that kind of way of thinking where it's like okay. I'm gonna go for this arm lock You know and then I I'm not sure a hundred percent disagree with you because in my mind if you don't set things up They're not gonna work. Yeah, so you have to set them up and you have to start learning where that setup looks like Yeah, but as it I mean Dave Burke is at that position right now this this moves are not working because he's not setting him up because he's telegraphing him. Yeah. So that's why he's asking the question.

Yeah. So when you, this is the answer to when that question comes, which it will when you start training jiu-jitsu and you start training against people that know what you know, they're going to defend. Yeah. And it's proper that they defend because their defense is a setup for your next move. Yeah. That's the part you've got to realize.

Yeah. So considered, and when he asked me this before or when he was, talked about I forget exactly when it was I was considering it through his point of view right or in in with an experience okay so but this point of view and my point of view so if I'm rolling with a white belt and like a real new white belt and he's doing the move that they learn that day so he's doing it step by step by the way he learned and I'm like okay this is this that's the ultimate in telegraphing by the way when you're looking at the steps that you just watched

them learn kind of thing you might even have taught it to him I don't so when they do that it's I think that's appropriate it's far as the learning process early on it's like yeah get those down practice that part of it yeah it's not gonna work it in fact it might work on another super new new guy yeah and and yeah I know I've rolled with guys Dean is one of them where he you know what he's gonna do yeah you know what he's gonna do he might as well tell you yeah what he's gonna do and and he's gonna do it yeah now sometimes you give up like you give up an inch and all of a sudden you feel it and you go oh man I'm gonna my arm is exposed yeah and you and you spend

the next two minutes defending that arm and there's nothing you can do to stop it right but and i think we both know that that's so much different in this way because if dean's like okay man that's so multi-dimensional compared to like a white belt tell white belt telegraphing his moves because dean okay dean for example he's like i'm gonna get mount and i'm gonna do arm bar so him getting mount is going to be all these little micro like things in there yeah not to mention the psychological war that he just waged on you and he's ahead by the way so you got that and then you got all these little things when he goes for mount he's just going to he's just going to get mount so to get mount you got to do a certain you know thing in his case so when he does

those things that's going to be a bunch of those things that you're talking about all this thing I'm gonna fake this side but then I'm gonna go this side I'm gonna shift my weight so he shifts his weight that way so he so I go here so he does so there's little many things but he's just so good at it that he'll do he can just do it like that true so I think I mean again the the point there is like it's a lot different with a guy who Dean when he says, I'm going to get him out and I'm an arm bar you, he's not telegraphing anything. He's telling you, sure, but he's not technically telegraphing

like a whole white belt situation. But either way, I get it. Either way, I mean, everyone's different. I do think that learning those steps and learning what a good, I think getting that part down early on, early on is, is, I think more foundational. It's foundational. Once you start asking the question, why

won't anyone tap to my moves, I need to set them up better? Here you go. Yeah. Yes, I think you're right about that. That's where Dave's at. You know, to your point, how you can when you want to do so it's kind of like a faint right in boxing maybe a little bit more like how you say to I'm gonna when I go for a move as a as a setup move you got to really sell that move you got to really be going for that so it's like bait right yeah yeah yeah in fact you ever watch the movie bait no okay so bait is movie with Jamie Fox and you know some other

people anyway so one of the guys it's it's a long so I don't want to so they're trying to catch this did this gold thief right okay in bed so this gold thief but he's a real genius computer nerd gold thief dude and he's super good at hiding the way you the way you pronounce that you're like gold thief I was like okay this is a guy that's gold he's a criminal but he's like a computer guy you know he's but he's super genius easy like hides really well and super hard to find and all this stuff and so the guy the FBI guy whoever you know the the law enforcement dude he's like hey we got to set some bait so this guy comes out and gets the bait but But when you set bait, you can't be some fake thing.

This bait has to be real. Like a wolf, when you try to catch a wolf, the bait has to be real. It can't be just some bait you bought kind of idea. So, you know, so the idea of the movie is they get this guy, Jimmy Fox, and they make him the bait. But he doesn't know he's the bait because he has to be real. Has to be. He can't be tainted with the human scent. He got to be a real live piece of bait.

So that's essentially what your move's got to be. Absolutely. You got to be like, hey, look, if my bait is the arm lock, if I'm, if I'm, I'm gonna bait the Kimura to get the sit-up sweep. That Kimura gotta be a fresh, plucked out of the wild Kimura attempt. And then when he goes and reacts to it or bites it, when I get the sit-up suite, same exact thing. So yeah, they got to, the setup move, got to smell real.

Got to smell real. That's how I like to keep all my moves smelling super real. You see what I'm saying? Check. All right, next question. Does discipline ever fail you? Does discipline ever fail you? No.

Actually, discipline does not fail me. I fail discipline. That's what happens. On days where I veer off the path and on to the slippery slope of weakness, it isn't discipline's fault. it's my fault I'm the one that's being weak I'm the one that's not holding the line

I'm the one that is deciding to take the short-term gratification instead of the long-term domination when laziness creeps in it's not it's not disciplined that opened the door it's me it's me rationalizing

and explaining and justifying that laziness. When I decide to take the easy path instead of the righteous path of discipline, that is my decision. That's all on me. It's me deciding to cave to my weaknesses

and become a slave to them. And when I make that error, when I let discipline down, there's only one thing to do. And that's get the error. back on the path get back on it and then step it up and go harder and push more and pay for your transgressions cleanse yourself in the fire and the suffering of the discipline and get back on the path the hard unrelenting path of discipline that path that leads to freedom and i think

that's all I've got for tonight so echo yes speaking of the path against weakness sure you know of any ways that maybe you could help us down that path yeah first I will talk about our company origin okay what origin does a lot of stuff actually impressive stuff. First thing they do, maybe not the first thing, but one of the many things they do is, I guess technically it's origin labs, right? Yeah.

So, Jocko has some supplements, Jocco's super krill oil, and joint warfare from origin labs. These supplements are for your joints. And of course, they're the best ones for your joints. Unless you made one that are not, is not the best for your joints.

No, we make the ones that are the best for your joints. Yeah. Yes, indeed. Yeah, someone tweeted at me. I think that's the, you tweet at someone, right? That's the thing. Anyway, they were like, hey, I ran out of joint warfare. Big mistake. Yeah, and it was kind of like just kind of expressing them.

And I dig it because I've done that too. That's why you get on the subscription deal. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think you did. Yeah, lots of, that's a, the joint warfare and the girl oil. Like, try it. If you, if you have any joint issues,

at all, try it. Seriously try it. It will help you. Yeah. It will absolutely help you, which is awesome. Yeah. And part of that, which I did mention, I think maybe last time, there's anti-inflammatory stuff in there too. Like natural stuff, not like ibuprofen or something like that, like anti-inflammatory stuff. So that helps a lot. And, you know, I'm rarely like super impressed with, I mean, not like my standards are so high. I'm just saying, like, I understand supplements are like there supplements. Cool. I dig it.

kind of thing but this is one that I was like this is this is an important one 100% don't run out just don't don't run out also discipline this one is a what we are calling officially a pre mission supplement so whatever your mission is physical mental emotional sure there's a thing called emotional intelligence I don't have emotions so I can't yeah you see talking about that one I don't know the effects Good point. Put it this way. I have never lost my temper.

I have never broke down and cried. Well, that's debatable, while I'm on the discipline. There you go. So the proof is in the pudding. So it is an emotional enhancing situation as well. But whatever your mission is, there's some neutropic stuff in there for cognitive enhancement and a little bit of caffeine. If you're into caffeine, a little bit.

Micro dose, as we call it. You know, that's a good one too. Don't run out. Also, milk. Moke is milk. I had some the other day, two scoops. What is one serving? One scoop.

Yeah, one serving is one scoop. Mulk, protein powder. You know, okay. We'll say protein, but you're just going with milk. Technically, it is, right? Then you realize that technically what it really is is mowk. Moke, yeah, you know what it is. I'll tell you.

What did you mix it with? Milk, of course, 100%. 100%. Yeah. What I'm going to do this? Mix it with water like a psycho. Have you tried it with water though? No.

It's actually not, like I said the other day, it's not bad with water. It's not bad. It's like satisfying. It's a ham sandwich. But it's not it's not mint chocolate chip milkshake style. Yeah, yeah. Like on Crocodile Dundee, right? When he was like, he was like, yeah, you could live off it or, you know.

I have no idea what you're talking about. He said like, sure, it's fine with water. He was talking about. No, he was talking about. I don't forget what he was talking about. I recommend. Yeah, the milk and you know what else if you're let's say you're lactose intolerant almond milk no no problem almond milk also awesome although they do make lactose free milk now

Which is very similar tasting to regular milk like surprisingly similar Because I accidentally bought some before and I was drinking I was like I was like cool but I was like Does this taste different like you know it's like a question it's not guaranteed it could have been me I maybe I brushed my teeth too soon before I drank the milk you know something like Oh, foul. No, but you see what I'm saying, right? You can do certain things that affects your little taste buds or whatever. It was like that.

It was like, it was a question mark. It wasn't like, dang, I bought the wrong milk. Like, if you think you're drinking, I don't know, regular milk, but then it's like soy milk. Ew. Or canned milk or powdered milk or something like this. Because it wouldn't be in my house. Seeing the rest of us. You know the difference.

That's the point. You know the different. Lactose-free milk and regular milk, like, the difference isn't that. I'm obvious in my opinion. So you give that one to try. Yeah, yeah, if you're lactose intolerant. But mulk nonetheless, technically is protein powder. You don't, this is why you don't like to say protein powder.

Yeah, and we have, right now we only have mint, but we have peanut butter coming. Yeah. And the peanut butter is gonna be the one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is what I'm... Chocolate peanut butter, by the way, yeah.

Okay. And the mint isn't mint. It's milk. It's milk. Mint chocolate, yeah. So yeah. It makes it sound, what I'm saying, before, the protein powder makes it sound like,

oh, it's just one of these many protein powders that are out there kind of thing. That's the feeling you get. That's not the feeling you get when you drink yet. Yeah, it's milk. Way different. Way different. If it would have not been mulk,

we would have called it protein powder. Yeah. But it wasn't, it was mulk powder. Umla. Yeah, yeah. I thought that was like some Viking thing. The way you're saying it. Okay.

Hardcore. Heavy metal. It's a heavy metal thing. Like when you go this, like, this yeah I know oyster cult there's one the first the first album that had it was blue oyster colt and then probably the most the most famous that has it is motorhead and that's because the two fingers that's you know like rock on I know I I Reese before I released this I researched it this how I know this and

and Lemmy from Motorhead's quote as to why he used the UMLOT was because he said it looks mean that's his quote that's all he said it yeah no big philosophical representation of like well they represent eyes that are layers no no no here's a layer there's layers now yeah yeah let me said it looks mean what yeah when you say to lemmy disagree with him yeah it doesn't look mean sounds cool to me lemmy yeah and then now it's on the mok those are layers that's layers so you provided another layer it has been turned into layers and also you know how you say rock and like I said well this is what I thought you know when say rock on and you have the two fingers right point index finger and the you know in the pinky boom rock on

If you were to, I don't know. By the way, people don't say rock on anymore. Well, I don't know, bro. I'm not in the scene. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, you do that motion and let's say you had some, I don't know, some chalk or something on your hand. Uh-huh. From doing dead lifts or something like this.

And then you touch the wall. Boom. You got your oomlot right there. That's what I thought it for real was. That's interesting. My name is Echo. You're way too creative or your mind is wandering a little too much. I think other people might have thought that too.

Think about this. Okay, my name is Echo, obviously. It's my real name, by the way. I have a twin brother named Jade. He's older by 15 minutes. I'm the second twin, right? Yeah. Follow?

So my first grade teacher was, she said, oh, yeah, your name's echo. That makes sense now because you're your brother's echo. Yeah. See what I'm saying? And I was like, dang, that is, man, my parents are smart. Yeah. No, I thought that too. And then you told me the truth.

Yeah, so I go home and I asked and my mom was like, wow, no, not at all. I just thought it was cool. Same thing as Lemmy. Yeah. Same exact thing. She just thought it was mean. Not mean just cool and I should say like euphoric My mom's a hippie

Anyway back to the malk it's dope Peanut butter chocolate not out yet but we'll be out soon Look forward to that one big time also strangely are you is peanut butter chocolate your second favorite flavor? I don't know It's Pete's by the way it's right up there yeah yeah and it's mine by way Pete sent me like a text when he first got the beach And I could tell that he was real fired up. Yeah, no kidding.

He was, he had a real strife. He's like, he's like, just mix this up. You know, it's like a little thing. He's like, just mix this up. And you, you know, you see the thing leave the screen, and then he slams it back down. Bro. See, that's a good sign, right?

Yeah, yeah. And it's kind of a pain, because then he has to take it, because they only give you one sample. So then you FedEx is, he's like, FedEx, I'm like, send me the rest. It's en route. to break it up like um like in little bags so good i'm saying yeah so be on the lookout for that if you care if you if you if you want some more be on the look up for that also geese and rash

guards is what origin has again origin main dot com this stuff is all made in america by the way side note or is that even a side note yeah that's the note straight up note note this all this made your parents so geese and rash cards geese okay why is that relevant because we talk about jiu jitza today everyone still not everyone people still ask me weekly maybe even biweekly what gie should I get point me in a direction of a good gee here is all do it I'll do it right now origin geese whichever one you want whichever two you want whichever three you want they're good people that missed the original deaf gee the discipline freedom gee yeah that says get after it on the on the on the tail sure it's called

the skirt I've heard it called the skirt the tail anyways the back of the the back of the Gie top on the bottom. It says get after it. But they originally made those, or we originally made those as a, like, you know, kind of like a... Like a tribute, signature, is. No, just, uh, what's that word?

Like special only. Yeah, yeah. Special edition. Yeah, special edition. Anyways, but everyone liked them. And so now they're part of the line. Dang, part of the lineup. They're good. Yeah, I noticed the white one is available now. And so is the black. Okay, they're both up. Boom, whatever color you want. Also, another question people ask about the geese. They're like, hey, what color should I get? Like, is it crazy to get a green ghee or something like this, right? You know, do people ask you that still? Yeah, yeah, sometimes. Yeah, so people seem to come to you more for ghee. It's probably more of a fashion-like thing. So they go to you. Maybe. And well, yeah, well, the origin geese looked dope, too, by the way. And that's not just because you mentioned fashion.

They do. That's like one of the, one of the... Well, Pete's got a little fashion streak in it. Yes, he does. You don't like that. Actually, no, that's good that he does because you don't. Yeah, no, I know. I have no fashion streak.

I have no fashion streak. Yeah, yeah. Give me a t-shirt. In other words, no fashion streak. Nonetheless, the colors of the geese are going to depend on your instructor or your academy. True. So these, you know, like if your academy allows whatever color ghee you want, like, victory does, then you, whatever color you want.

Then you kind of go. into this game within the game which actually doesn't really exist really and that's like if you're a new guy and you show up with a pink ghee or or a crazy like you know those weird geese and a gold belt or something you know how jeff glover used to wear that gold belt or was it friend you did that they both did anyway bill cooper even if you do that then it's like hey you know but this more that's more of like social fabric kind of thing but if it comes down to the the school so some rigid school only white yeah some rigid schools and then the more traditional is like white or blue that's it don't do a green don't do a black which are cool in my opinion

and then you get the schools where like and whatever yeah and maybe there's in between I never heard of any but maybe there's in between so point there astronaut or what color then boom get that color origin main dot com that's the deal also rash guards on there good rash guards by the way all made in America the Sweets, I always say, are the most comfortable sweats I've ever had and used. Still on that. Still is. Held up.

I did a little competition. Trying to impromp, too. Yeah, the joggers. This past week and still, yeah, holds up. And I have some comfortable sweats. I know about comfort. I do. I'm not a stranger to comfort.

Anyway, go there. Origin mane.com. Good spot. Also, if you want to vary up your workout and get new workout, equipment go to on it dot com slash jaco get yourself some kettlebells the artistic kettlebells they call them artistic kettlebells but i don't think there's the word artistic on the whole website by the way so it's like primal bells that's like the you know the monkey groups gorillas orangutan you know those things they're artistic kettle balls and there's like zombie

bells and werewolves and whatnot anyway i say get those they're the dopest um but there's some other stuff maces and battle ropes and whatnot if you want to vary up the work out you know good not a good info too on there so you know if you ask me about what to do with kettlebells when you're first starting out like well how much you should use or how much weight you should use and what movements i'm not the resource i'm not that versed in it i know two movements three maybe four altogether but there's a bunch going on it dot com slash chocolate that's a spot good spot get something also when you are purchasing any of the books that jocco reviews or even extreme ownership or way of the worry kid or whatever whatever book i organized them all on jocco podcast dot com books from the episodes actually jacco's books

are on the front page but for the books they review review on the podcast books from episodes boom they're all right there click through there when you buy those books good way to support and uh you know on do you shopping it'll take you to amazon by the way but yeah get your books through there that's a good way to support also subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already on stitch your iTunes google play now there's a lot of podcast apps out there whatever app you're using for your podcast subscribe good way to support leave review if you're in the mood that's what i say jaco says you know if you're not in the mood do it anyway you know because you're not always going to be in the mood you know that whole thing true but whatever to me that's up to you leave review that's

cool they're funny to read thank you for yes they're for a lot of layers in a lot of those so that's yeah I like seeing creative later's layers in the reviews yeah I feel like the people have gotten a very strong hold and understanding of the concept of layers that I think so yeah and they've been demonstrated same with Amazon reviews for stuff yeah yeah yes salute to that one big time also on YouTube subscribe if you haven't already the video version of this podcast along with excerpts. Little, I don't know, anywhere from two to eight minutes, excerpts.

And some enhanced excerpts on there as well. Put some music on there. Make them fun, or we'll say, to watch on YouTube. Maybe some outtakes every once in a great while. Anyway, if you're interested in the video situation, subscribe to YouTube. It's a good way to support. Also, Jocko is a store.

It's called Jocko store. This is where you can get all your Jocko gear, like Discipline equals Freedom shirts and hoodies, rash guards, some women's stuff on there. Tank tops, how do we feel about tank tops? I feel great. In general. Good, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Are you to make some? I think so. Cool, do it. Yeah. Have them for summertime. Yeah.

Let's go. Rock and roll. I feel like I haven't worn a tank top for like probably since like, college time. Oh, well. But, I mean, yeah, that's not a fair. I mean, work. But I'm just saying as far as, like, what I day-to-day think about.

Man, when it gets hot, it's so nice to have a tank top on. Yeah. Yeah, I dig it. So, yeah, so tank tops. Yeah. Be on the, I always find it. Not strange, but I always don't want to say, be on the lookout for that. Like, it's this big thing.

You got to be on the lookout. But, you know, if you're down for the tank tops, hey, be on the lookout for it, I guess, right? Check. Unless jocco store.com, you can get some patches. I got some warrior kid. patches. Nice. So those should be on there right now, actually.

For the warrior kids and the geese and the geese, the backpack, wherever you want to put that one. You don't represent where your kids. Also, other patches on there two disciplines, freedom and whatnot. Also, psychological warfare. If you don't know what that is, it's an album with tracks,

jaco tracks, that help you through every moment of weakness that you might come across. Because apparently not all of us go through moments of weakness. it's rare but some people they just power through for those types of people psychological warfare not for them I think I think they just power through and continue powering through maybe even teach us how to just power through but for the rest of us hit moments of weakness we listen to psychological warfare given

what the weakness is so if my weakness is hitting the snoo's and not getting up early there's a track for that it's Jocko on that track talking to you telling you why you should get up not yelling He's playing the game, quote unquote. Actually, it's not technically playing the game on a track. He's just flanking. I don't know. Yeah, just explaining.

Pragmatically, like, why, the value. You could say that it is a little bit of a flank going on because it's getting, everyone that listens to it, like, it hits the spot, right? Yes. It nails the target of why, because I know where the weakness comes from. It happens to me. And so I just talk about how you just overcome that thing. Yeah, because technically the very reason.

or by the very nature of you wanting to stay in bed, that's by its very nature a reinforced position because you're rationalizing in your head. You're defending your actions or your potential actions. You're defending that already in your own head. Here comes Jocko on the Jocko track. You don't attack those things. You just come around and say, hey, I dig it.

You know, the bed is, I dig it. You know, all this stuff. You flank, it's good. And there's a track for all these little weaknesses. Good. 100% effectiveness, by the way. Get it on iTunes or wherever you can buy mp3. It's on like Amazon music or whatnot as well. Yeah, well, speaking of Amazon, if you want to get something called Jocko White Tea, you can get that on Amazon.

You should only get it if you want to have an 8,000 pound deadlift because that's what it results in. Otherwise, drink some other tea. Yep. Now, this is cool. We have Jocko White Tea in a can coming out in June on Amazon. Get some Obviously the goal is to eventually get him out at retail so you can have that option everywhere you go Instead of drinking the junk energy drinks that are bad for you

So yeah, I'll let it I'll let you all know when it hits Amazon It's been made by the way if you're wondering A ton of it a bunch of it way more than a ton actually a lot of it has been made Yeah, because I think well, I know I want it so it worst case scenario I have a lifetime supply of of jocco white tea in a can and you know I don't know what us well there's a little debate you know what should we call it you know wait what you call what the jacca white tea because I was kind of thinking well there's another name we could give it we could call it 8,000 pound deadlift in a can sure yeah but no we're still calling it jocco

white tea hey books weigh the warrior kid tons the series right there's two books out right now and so much awesome feedback on that it's awesome thanks for posting pictures of your kids studying reading doing book reports training jiu jitsu working out it's awesome to see thank you and if you have kids or you know kids get them on that same path if you want to support a warrior kid go to irishoaks ranch dot com and get some soap made by the warrior kid aden because you know you need to see soap if you are going to Stay clean. Don't forget about the discipline equals freedom field manual same thing awesome feedback You ever heard the saying an apple a day keeps the doctor away? Yes not really

Read one section of the field manual day. I know it doesn't rhyme but it actually works It'll keep you on track physically and mentally and if you want to speaking of tracks if you want to listen to it There's no audio audible version of it because we wanted to have a album with tracks you can get it on Amazon music Google Play iTunes other mp3 platforms the discipline equals field the discipline equals freedom field manual meditate on that all right also for leadership extreme ownership combat leadership how is this book still a best seller after two and a half years that's the question And Leif was telling a guy the other day on Twitter.

He's like, it's the same thing as when we first started working together. And I talked to him about something and how to do something. And he'd be like, yeah, it works. And that's why the book is still selling because it works. And right now, speaking of it works, you can order the follow-on book to extreme ownership. It's called the dichotomy of leadership. The manuscript is done. It is now going through the Pentagon review process.

And I'm telling you, Laif and I are both super stoked on the information that's in it, the stories that are in it, the word that's in it. You can pre-order it now from anywhere. Amazon, Barnes & Noble, your local bookstore. And if you do that, it lets our publisher know how many to print. Because otherwise they don't know. And you know what they're trying to do? Save it money. So I'm not going to print enough.

And then you'll be all bummed because you didn't get a copy when it comes out September 25th. And if you need close air support for the leadership at your team contact echelon front It's my leadership and consulting company me Leif Babin J P. Denele Dave Burke The website is echelonfront.com We solve problems through leadership There you go just that's what we do just I've been working with a lot of different companies the last The last well for a while but I just went through a bunch of meetings and it's like yeah you look at all these problems that they have have they're all leadership problems and that's how we solve problems through leadership of course if you want to come to the muster then it's our leadership seminar the one in dc sold out

sorry i'm telling you they sell out they've all sold out so far so if you want the opportunity to come to a muster there's only one more in 2018 it is the muster zero zero six in san francisco california october 17 and 18th register at extreme ownership dot com before it's sells out and we have to say no that does not feel good but there's fire codes and we have firefighters there so we can't just pack people in also for current military law enforcement firefighters paramedics and other first responders we're holding the roll call number one September 21st in Dallas Texas it's a one day leadership training seminar specific to dynamic and hostile environments that military law enforcement

firefighters, paramedics, first responders have to work in. You can also register for that at extreme ownership.com. And until the muster or roll call or the immersion camp up in Maine, we'll see it one of those. But until then, if you want to ask us questions or you want to give us answers, you can find us on the interwebs. Echo is at Echo Charles. And I am at Jocko Willink into all the military personnel in uniform out there worldwide, keeping evil on lock.

down thank you for what you do thanks to the police law enforcement firefighters paramedics and all first responders for staying prepared and staying vigilant and staying ready to answer the call to keep us safe here on the home front and to everyone else out there with us trying to stay on the path of discipline instead of walking down the slippery slope of despair. Stay focused, stay strong, stay disciplined, and keep getting after it. Until next time, this is Echo and Jocko.

Out.