Jocko Podcast - 127: Hell Yes, I'd Do It Again. Leadership Lessons From Iwo, with T. Fred Harvey.

Episode Date: May 30, 2018

0:00:00 - Opening 0:03:16 - T. Fred Harvey. 3:14:08 - Final Thoughts and take-aways. 3:19:14 - Support. 3:58:18 - Closing Gratitude.  Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 127 with Echo Charles and me Jock Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. Iwo Jima is to me, hallowed, blessed, spiritual, sacred, pure ground. If the spirits of the dead could speak, what would they be saying to me? Count off Marines and sailors, you of the vanquished dead. When your number reaches 7,000, we will know that you are present and accounted for in this your eternal duty station. Serve well.

Your ranks are growing each passing day as some of us, your mates in war, are coming to join you. Those endless hours of terrifying nights, the carnage, devastation, and pain turned hope into despair. The remnants of formerly dynamic human bodies that carried hearts filled with dreams of peace, home, and loved ones. After the rush of battle, my eyes became heavy with tears. My body trembled with rage as I looked upon the broken bodies, the searing invasion of human flesh. Aftermath of war, an elemental suffocating fear through and through my very soul. The intensely surging immediacy of the action was aggravated, no place to hide. There was not only an incompatibility between the Marines and the defending Japs, but the very nature of this morbid little island.

The sounds of battle, which were intensified by the human voice with all its emotions, are absent today. The moral revulsion that took place here, so many years. years ago has been forgotten except by those who fought here and survived and those who lost loved ones here and that is an excerpt from a book called hell yes I do it again written by a man actually written by a Marine named T. Fred Harvey, who fought in World War II in the Pacific Theater, including in the Battle of Iwo Jima, where he was severely wounded for a second time. But he survived the war and has lived an amazing life, and it is an incredible honor to have this hero here with us to share some of the lessons that he learned.

Mr. Harvey, welcome to the show. I'm glad to be here. I've heard a lot about this show, and I'm really pleased that you've invited me to come here and speak to you. Well, maybe you can just keep coming back, because we'll just sit and listen to you. We got no problem with that, sir. So I guess we always try and go back to the beginning a little bit

and learn a little bit about you, and I know you're growing up and your book has a bunch of incredible anecdotal stories about what it was like growing up in Texas during the Depression. So, you know, I was talking to you earlier and I said people don't know what the depression was really like.

And you described it in one word. You said hungry. So that's a real thing, huh? During the Depression. Yeah, that was a real thing. I vividly remember all the good times while eating and the hungry times when I was really hungry. I joined the Marine Corps. That's the first time I had adequate food to satisfy the hunger within me.

So, and you grew up with a single mom for the most part, so I know your dad was doing good in construction, but then the depression hit. Yeah, depression hit, and it really hit the heart. Harvey family. At one time, the Harvey family consisted of 11 people. Nine girls, two boys, a father and mother. And my mother was the center of my universe. When I went to the Marine Corps and then last night that I spent in Odessa before I got to boot camp, the train stopped in my hometown of Odessa and they had the back. band, high school band, and a lot of people from town were there to greet us. The conductor said we're going to stop for 20 minutes because the people of O'DS won,

a C.E. off. There was three of us going to the Marine Corps at that time. When we got there, there were girls there that were throwing kisses on me that I never dreamed to be unable to even touch. And I was about ready to quit the Marine Corps and stay there. Well, during all this, somebody grabbed my ear and jerked me around behind the depot, and it was my mom, Jesse Lee. My mom was a Comanche Indian, and she was a warrior.

She pulled me around in the dark of the night behind the, outside of the crowd, so nobody could hear what she had to say. And she called me Sonny because I was so bright. She put this hand up in front of me like this right there, so I can see it. She said, Sonny, you listen and you listen good. Yes, ma'am. She said, number one, when this war is over, you come home to us.

spam and don't you come home no drunkard and you don't come home no coward you know what that fourth one was and you don't come home with no tattoos

and I sure don't have any tattoos and that was when she sent me off to San Diego and I'll tell you a little bit Later in this session, she came out to see me, and you'll see the reason why she came out to see me.

So you actually at one point, and I thought that was a real interesting thing because it seemed like you got a lot of weight on your shoulders as a youngster, and I'm going to go to the book here for a minute. I greeted my mom cheerfully. She avoided my eyes, and this is just you coming home from school. I greeted my mom cheerfully as usual.

She avoided my eyes and wiped her own with her apron. I noted with concern a puffy redness about them. She got up and went to the oven and brought out a baked potato and a big bowl of pinto beans. Thanking her I dug in. In silence, she entered that same bedroom. My thoughts centered wholly on the food. Without preamble, I heard a loud, beseechingly desperate cry come through the closed door. No, Jesse, not that.

And that was your dad. With a gasp, I spewed a mouthful of food, knocked over the small table. and went through the door without benefit of the knob. In the dimly lit bedroom, I viewed a scene of heart-choking horror, a picture forever etched in my memory. My father desperately grappled for the pistol my mother tried to bring down on herself or him.

Without wavering or hesitation, I lunged at her with all the force I could muster. I caught her with a fist to the side of her head. She sagged at the knees, dropped the pistol, and fell forward. Inert she laid down on the floor. I was horrified by what I had done. My father staggered back and slumped whimpering into a corner. I headed to the bathroom and came out with a bath towel sopping wet with cold water.

I applied it to her suffering face until she came around. Unsteadily, I helped her to her feet and then seated her on the side of the bed. All the while, Dad remained in the corner too, shaking to get up or offer any assistance. shaking to get up or offer any assistance sobbing I cried why mother why why with a clear steady voice she said your daddy does not love us anymore he has another woman that's a lot of a lot of for a young kid to deal with yeah was the saddest moment my whole life I'll never forget that and my mom was a great mom she held the family together after he left us

He applied for divorce, and I went to the judge's chamber with my mother, and the judge called me and my father to come to him, and my mom was too weak to get up to go to the judge. The judge said, Mr. Harvey, I'm granted you a divorce. the six remaining children in their family will remain with their mother, and you will pay in the sum of $42 for child care a month for six children and herself. And that was the last penny my dad ever spent on us, We just divorce him completely from our minds and so forth. I had nothing to do with him after that.

And that was the saddest moment of my whole life when that happened. And it was interesting, too. You mentioned later in the book that you could have gotten, because now you were like the sole supporter of the family, you could have actually gotten a deferment from going to the war. Yes, uh-huh. And your mom didn't give it to you, or she knew that you wanted to go in the Marine Corps.

Yeah. Well, for a while, she held off, wouldn't sign the papers for me to go. See, I was just a sophomore in high school, and I was failing all my subjects because I was trying to hold down two jobs to help my mom and my sisters and

it was it was hard times it was really bad for us all but my mom held the rest of us together and and I lived through it and then so your mom knew that you wanted to join the

Marine Corps? Yeah and she fought me on it and one day my cousin came home and I went to the recruiting office with him and he signed up because he was old enough to sign and I took the papers home to my mom and she was at the clothes line hanging up with clothes to be dried you know and I put that paper in front of her I said this is for you to sign I want you to sign it now

because I'm going into the Marine Corps she laid that wet towel on the basket, walked down there to the end of the line. I built her a line for drying clothes, and there was some excess wire, six-strand wire. She took that thing and twisted it into a long whip-like thing. Came back to me, took my left hand, her left hand, and whacked me across the rear,

and I made a complete circle around it. and I stopped and glared at her and I could see that she was shedding tears. The first tears I'd ever seen her said, and that broke my heart. And I stood there for a while and she turned and walked and went to the house. And then I cried, I cried hard. and so about a week later I came home from school and she handed me a paper that she had signed for me to go into the Marine Corps

and so that was the birth of my Marine Corps. How old were you? I was 17. Okay. I was 17 and and I couldn't pass English. And so I quit school and joined the Marine Corps. Where were you when Pearl Harbor happened?

So that was, what, a year prior? No, I was in school, but it was a Sunday day. And Jake Rhodes, my buddy, had a little coop right there. and we had dates and we called her big berthers. The little coop was too small for all of us to sit abreast of each other. So I sat on her lap. I just weighed 118 pounds and she probably outweighed me by five or six pounds. And we heard that Pearl Harbor had been attacked.

And that was a day that I learned. that I was going to be involved in a war because of that age, you know. And so... How did you heard about the Marine Corps as opposed to the Army or the Navy? Well, I wanted to be a paratrooper. And then I thought I'd go into the Army and be a paratrooper. Then I found out that the Marines had paratroopers. So I joined the Marine Corps instead, and I found me a home.

Yeah. So you leave on that train. Your mom tells you, you know, don't be a coward. Don't get any tattoos. Don't be a drunkard. Yeah. And come home to us. These are good basic fundamental rules for a lot of people, I think, to follow.

And you head off on that train to boot camp. which is right here in San Diego, California. Yes, uh-huh. So I got through boot camp okay. But a big problem, when they lined us up, we fitted out with shoes and clothing and everything. When it came to the shoes right there, they made it with me. And they said, son, you can't join the Marine Corps

because your feet are too small. And I thought, well, gosh, he's not going to send me home, is you? I wore a size five and a half shoe, and he said, we just don't make shoes that small. And so I had an old pair of shoes that had worn out. Should have been thrown away. And I play a lot of poker.

I knew how to play poker before I knew my ABCs. Well, anyway, I carried deck cards around all the time. So when I went to Marine Corps, I had to use the whole deck putting about three into, my shoes that had holes in them, my civilian shoes, that had holes in them. And they finally, one night, I'd always take the top bunk in wherever I went, what barracks I was in, you know. So I put my shoes on the deck under the bunk. The next morning I woke up, And there was, look, somebody had taken a car tire and cut out sold for me.

It was about that thick, you know. So I had a pair of shoes that I could march in. Anyway. And then when I had to cut down my dungeries cut down, you know, because it's too big and so forth. And I had a lot of trouble because I was so small. And at one time I was small enough that Ralph Halled my captain or my platoon leader. He was the first lieutenant at that time.

And out for various picked me as a runner. And so one night we were sitting around a campfire. And I said, why did y'all pick me as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, runner. And they said, well, you were so small, so you made a small target, and he was so fast to foot that you could outrun any job in the world. So that was the reason I was made a company runner. So you were saying that your mom, it's in the book, too, it's a great story about your mom bringing you something to boot camp, visiting you and bringing you something to boot camp. Oh, yeah. Well, it wasn't exactly.

actually the boot camp is when I came back from overseas and found out that there's going to be a demolition man in the assault squad. An assault squad was composed of five men with specials, and I was going to be a demolition man. I was supposed to carry so many pounds of demolition on my back and on front I would carry my regular pack, you know, and so forth. So I couldn't handle a rifle. So at first I said, well, we'll try to get you a pistol because I couldn't handle a rifle with all that weight and so forth. And he said, we're going to get you a pistol. I waited around a week for a pistol and finally came out and said, the Marine Corps doesn't have any pistols, any left. And so I was desperate.

So I called my mom. I said, Mom, find me a pistol. I'd like to have a colt, 1911 colt. And my mom went out and looked all over. Well, I looked all over San Diego here for a pistol myself, and there just wasn't one that we had, you know. And so I called my mom and told her what I needed, and she, I sent her the money. I sent her $75 that I'd won in a poker game. I sent that to her, and she went around all over town looking for a pistol.

couldn't find one until she came to a trailer house down close to the railroad tracks with a guy that had a gun shop there. So she went at the house trailer and knocked on the door and Mr. Armstrong came out and said, What do you need, ma'am? She said, I need a pistol. What kind of pistol do you need? She said she took out the piece of paper that I had written it on a cold 45 1911 and he said I just happened to have one of those and she said how much is it and he said two hundred dollars and she said oh I can't afford that he said well that's all the God why do you need such a big pistol she said well my son is in the Marine Corps and he needs a pistol and so he said well this is the only

one I have but two hundred dollars and and so she backed it out of the door and went down wrong mr. Armstrong came down and tapped her so she said he said you say his son was in the Marine Corps and and needs a pistol said surely they can give him a pistol there. She said, no, they don't have any. And she said, well, come on my back. We'll work up a deal. So she walked out with that pistol,

cleaned of Cosmaline, and he had his $75, and she needed to get there as soon as she could, you know. So she went down to the bus station, got on a bus, with a paper grocery bag in it with extra clothes, you know, and got on the bus, and 36 hours later, she got to San Diego.

Now, she criss-crossed the cross. In those days, you know, military guys had priority, and she'd be in one place. They would bump her off, let a guy come in and take her place, and she'd criss-crossed, you may have to go. and theirs is for 36 hours. Well, we were loading up to go overseas, and Cobber Darts and I were up on the truck

with a bunch of sea bags, and Fisher, my sergeant at that time, I was sitting in the cab with the driver and everything. So we went through the gate over here, Camp Pendleton, and the gate guard said, is there any Marine up our named Harvey, Fred Harvey? And Carver woke me up. I was asleep, woke me up and said, hey, they're calling for your names. So I looked over, and I saw my mom look up at me.

And I slid off that thing real fast. I came off real fast. Well, after a while, Fisher said, we gotta go. I want to let your mom sit in the seat, and I'll get up right with y'all. And so we drove down town and was looking for a place for her to stay.

We couldn't find the place anywhere. I mean, we tried every hotel and so forth. So finally, this is around 12 o'clock at night. And so I went to a policeman and I said, Sir, can you tell me where we might find a place for my mom to stay, a hotel or hotel or something, you know. And he said, well, I just don't know of any place and so forth.

I'll tell you what, I'll call my wife If your mother will stay with her, I'll call her and we'll go out there. And so the wife said, yes, bring her, bring her out. So he called the office, the police car came out and drove into the house. And his wife welcomed us with open arms, you know. she stayed there three different nights and then I was able to, Fisher would let me off quite a bit of the time. There were three days that she was here. And then finally had to put her on the bus, and he wrote a note making the priority she wouldn't be bumped in anything when she got home.

Well, that was a story of how I got my pistol. And it was shortly there after that you went on, you headed overseas. Yes, uh-huh. And that was on a former cattle ship. Is that right? That was the first time I went overseas. Oh, okay. So you came back in between, in between, so that, you got the pistol after your first time going overseas.

Yeah, it was the second time. I went overseas. Okay. But the first time I went over it was on the Bloom Fantine. Okay. You want to hear about the Bloom Fontaine? Well, I read about it,

and it's a pretty nasty story in many ways. Oh, that was a nasty ship. It really was. But I thought that's the way it was. You know, I hadn't seen the ocean until I had gotten in the Marine Corps. And so they put us on the Bloom Fontaine. and it was in a cattle ship at a Dutch captain and he was he shipped I mean he transferred cattle from Australia over to

to the Dutch holdings in the South Pacific well when the war broke out he had just dumped out a load of cattle and when he found out that it was at war well he headed for San Francisco. You got to San Francisco. He offered it to the Navy, and the Navy took it, made it into a troop ship. Now, they didn't clean that stuff up very good, you know. They shoveled it out, and they left a lot of stuff,

and they just painted over it. Of course, when they started sailing, that ship would buckle and everything, and that cow drop in just everything, before you know and the bunk were stacked up eight high and I was lucky I was small enough to get in there without any trouble a lot of those old guys couldn't get in and the head you know in the Navy and the Marine Corps the bathroom is called the head you know the head was just a long shed from the bow of the ship by through the holdings that you know where the captain stood and so forth and what

it happened they'd made a train what would be a latrine yeah right there for water would flow down the thing right there then they had a pipe for you to sit on well you just sit on that pipe and then do your thing and get up and leave you know Well, that thing broke down. And so here we were out at sea with no way to dispose of, you know, the drop-ins. Well, anyway, so the Dutch captain signed this crew to set, make things on the front of the ship, and kind of like saddles on the side of a horse, you know. You just go up there and drop your pants and sit down on that thing and drop them to feed the fish, you know.

Well, I was too vascular to go out there and use that because there were 13 naval nurses on that same ship and they sit up there. And I held off as, I was trying to hold off to the dark because I was too embarrassed to go. But finally, I had to go, so I just went up there and dropped my pants like the rest of them did. And well, you know, when you're floating along there, you're going up and down. First thing, you know your butt is in the water and it comes back out. And you didn't really need toilet paper because you didn't need them because there wasn't in there. That was a problem. The whole time I was in the Marine Corps overseas was toilet paper.

Oh, that was something. But that's the way we traveled there. and when you go through the, I was seasick. I was seasick all the time. They put me in the sick bay, and for some reason there was a box of high hole crackers in there. I don't know what it was doing on a troop ship, but there was someone on there.

And so I'd eat a couple of those every hour, and they'd hide them, or nobody else could get them. and we was on that ship for 29 days to get the new Caledonia. And one day the ship broke down. Here we are drifting out there and we drifted for, oh, probably 30 or 40 hours, you know.

And we was taking bets that's where we would drift to in South America. And they passed the word out that we were supposed to keep our life belts on at all times and keep your eyes looking out for submarines because we didn't have any escort we're just out there by ourselves and a slow cattle ship and we was in real trouble and and we drifted for 72 hours and they finally got the engine going again so here we are going to overseas we didn't know where we were going

you know and then we got a scare that there was possibly a japan submarine in the area so we pulled into the nearest island we were close to you know we pulled in there and i fell in love with that that island it was tanga to poo and it was went in there one of these things you see in the movies you know and we pulled in that bay and dropped anchor. And here the natives came out paddling canoes, and they had coconut, pineapple, a lot of fruit and stuff. They'd throw them up to us, and then we fight for those things. Well, anyway, they came back that night and entertained us.

On the deck of the ship, we were sitting around there, and they were doing their dances, the hula dances, and it was a beautiful island. How many is beautiful? And I swore up right there. I said to myself, Fred Harvey, there's a lot more in this world

than Odessa, Texas. And I'm going to see some of it before I die. And so they put on a show, and at last they sung their island song. You know what it was? you are my sunshine and we pulled away from there and we got started then we stopped and went back well what's going on six guys had jumped ship they went to shore and brought them back but i didn't think about jumping the ship thought about it i might have joined them and so we pulled out and finally

got to New Caledonia. We'd been at sea for 29 days. And we was all tickled to finally get there. But that ship was a hell ship, you know.

And when we got there, they took us off the ship. And this is now in New Caledonia. New Caledonia. And so you're a couple months out of boot camp at this point? Yeah. Okay.

And so this is the first place you stop and you're going to basically, just for people that don't know, you're going to get to New Caledonia and you're going to kind of train and prepare for going out and taking down some islands. Yeah. Well, there was two reasons we went there. We were going to farm up with the rest of the troops, you know. the first parachute battalion was already there. In fact, they were involved in Guadalcanal.

And so we were going down there to replace the guys, so I went to the first parachute battalion. They were 60 miles from the base that we came in on. I can't remember the base that we landed at, or the port we landed at, but it was a capital of New Caledonia, and the parachute battalions were stationed out about 60 miles from New Mea. Yeah, Neumea was the capital of that place.

And then once you got, is that where you met? that were you joined up, you're saying, with your parachute company? Yeah, uh-huh. Yeah, I was assigned to the first parachute battalion. And did you, did you, if I remember, did you go to Guadalcanal? At this point?

No, we went later, when we went up to our first action together after Guadalcanal was, we were supposed to go to Vela La Vela and things. So on our way up there, we stopped off at Guadalcanal. Okay. And that's after Guadalcanals had been secured, you know. And so they let a scrimmage. We went up to find some of the old guys that had

escaped Japanese had escaped and we didn't see anything so we didn't get to shoot any Japs so we were there all a couple of days and

we got up for Chow one morning just about before sunup and everything I was up the front of the line I'd always manage to get the front of the line for Chow yeah for Chow Yeah, you mentioned throughout the book that you're a guy that liked your chow. Oh, I love chow.

I was trying to catch up with the hunger I had during the depression. Well, anyway, we was in line there waiting to go in to get chow, you know. And then I heard a lot of laughing and carrying on back to the line. I ran down to see what the action was, you know. And there's three to be drivet. Draggled Japanese had just come out of the jungle and got in the line. And an officer got, came down there and they could speak Japanese, and they said they were hungry and everything.

So they took them up there and fed them. And they kept them there, I guess, as long as they needed them, they was washing pots and pans and doing work there. when we left and so forth. They got off light. And so as you were preparing to go, now you're working, you had a couple of guys that you mentioned in the book. You know, I'll start with the first one.

I'm going to mention three of them. Major Fagan, Fagan. Is that how you say? Fagan, Fagan, Major Fagin. He sounds like one tough customer. He was tough. I mean, he was, I was scared. I'd see him coming down, you know, the trail or anything like that.

I'd jump in the jungle, because I was scared of him. Well, everybody was scared of him because he was tough. He just drove us. He found out that Japanese marched full packs in a 24-hour period marched 39 miles. He said, we're going to beat that. and we marched 50 miles with full packs out there on New Caledonia. And we would walk up the hills

and trot down the hills. It came down there. And we went 50 miles. And I don't know whether it's any kind of record book or anything, but we're proud of it and so forth. I don't know if it's a record book either, but I know it hurt. Yeah.

Now, you also, you tell a couple stories in the book about him, he had no problem putting people on bread and water. Oh, no problem, no problem. In fact, I was put on bread and water. I had a buddy there that went through the parachute platoon with me right there, and he nearly got us killed and everything. I won't give him his name, you know,

but he passed away several years ago, but I don't want to say anything. We don't want to incriminate his actions. Well, he, when we was going through parachute school, his name, well, I'll tell you his name, last name, his name was Harmon. So when we lined up alphabetically and everything we did, you know,

well, he was always right behind me. So when we went to parachute school, we wound up together, you know, because of her names being real close to one another. Well, anyway, now, when we jumped, the Marine Corps jumped from the plane, we dove out head first. Their theory was that when you jump out and that parachute opens right there, you kind of swang with it right there.

Well, the Army jumped them out feet first and came down and so forth. So we jumped out head first. We were training there out here in Camp Gillespie. That's where the parachute school was. And we lined up to make our first jump, Will Harmon was behind me. Well, in the plane we called it the Blue Goose. Now we had to borrow that from the Navy

because the Marine Corps didn't own any planes itself. So we used the Blue Goose. So they took us out there in a truck, you know, the guys that had volunteered to go into the parachute school. And that truck driver drove us out there. And the barracks and the office and everything was on top of this hill. And below was the runway, and that's where we jumped into that area. That truck driver drove up.

and stopped real fast. He said, they're fixing to jump you guys want to watch. And so we all jumped out of the truck. There's about 10 or 15 of us, you know, jumped out of the truck and watched them. He flew over. Man, here they come diving out. One of them was coming down fast.

He was flailing like this. His parachute didn't open. And so just before he hit the deck, that parachute opened, he had to pull out his reserves. shoot. Now the reserve shoot was on the front and it didn't have a pilot shoot on it. So when you pull a rip part, you're supposed to pull out that silk yourself. Well, it wasn't silk. It was nylon. Well, he was pulling that out and just he got it filled out that he hit the deck and a Jeep was on this way down there and they put him in that Jeep, put a parachute on him, got him on the plane.

The plane went up there and out. He came again. And that truck driver said, any of you guys were going to go back to boot camp and two guys got back on their truck and went back and I thought seriously by joining them you know and uh yeah that's not a good initiation into parachute jumping that's for sure yeah well we had to pack our own shoots we learned how to pack the shoots and we and every step you took at parachute school you had to be running if you weren't running and an offshore or an NCO you'd catch you you were in trouble you know so every step we took. We learned how to pack shoots, ran up and down. I got where I could pack a shoot in 12 minutes. One day they said, you're going to pack a shoot today and you're going

to jump tomorrow. And I said, I better take a little bit more time. So it took me 30 minutes to do that one. Well, that night, oh, what was that Indian's name? But Ira Hayes. Ira Hayes. He was in my platoon, you've heard of Ira. His hip raised the flag on the eagle. He was real quiet,

and there was another ending there with him. And that night before we jumped, that guy jumped off and hollered, gung-hoe, you know, and broke both of his ankles. So that ended his parachute. But Ira was, he was a good Marine.

He was quiet, you know. He never said much. And I'd talk to him, you know, because my mom was a Comanche Indian, and I had some Indian blood, you know, and I'd tell him that, you know. And we became close friends, but he was so quiet, you know. He's just a great guy, but he's just quiet. Well, you know the history of what he did, what happened to a boy guy.

Yeah. Well, anyway, we came out and, that first jump we made, we made a jump. And when I came out, I dove out. When my shoot opened, I was standing on another shoot below me. Well, it was Harmon. He should have been above me because he was coming out there. We didn't think much about it, you know.

I just thought that's where it's jumping was like. Well, the next day, we jumped again, and we came up. we were tangled together and their shoots you know when they're slanting up like that air was going up too fast when holding the sheep

and when we hit man it's like a ton of bricks hitting you know man it hurt and everything because that shoot hadn't wasn't able to those shoots weren't able to hold us up so we hit the ground pretty hard so the jump master

and the guy on the deck watched the thing they said what happened and I don't know they didn't ask anything of Harmon you know it's always me they're looking at you know well anyway well in fact they're looking at me because I didn't even have boots on there one time I'm saying where's your boots I said they all don't have any they'll fit me so they finally got me a pair of six size and told me to wear four pair of socks on me. That was the first boots ahead. Well, back to Harmon.

Well, the next time we jump, I came out and bruised up and everything. When we jumped, well, I was, my shoot, the shroud lines had tangled up in my boots, you know. So I whipped out the K-bar knife and cut those two strands of rope, you know, to. let me down just before I hit the ground well I got my feet down first you know they come running over to me and what is going on there what's happening I don't know and so what had happened when my parachute when I jumped out or dove out of the thing right there I was facing the plane and my satir climb was playing out between my legs and And so that's where my foot got tangled up in the shroud lines.

Man, they came up there and they decided I was too light to be in a parachute, you know. And so the sergeant over there at the loft where we packed our shoots, you know, he and the officer were talking and he said well he's just too light and I was standing there talking I said I said y'all can't keep me out I want to stay in this outfit I want to stay in it

and so that sergeant he said why don't we put him in a Army Navy canopy now the Army Navy canopy was only 26 feet diameter and the

The ones we used, the nylon, the ones used, was 28, you know, just a bigger canopy and everything. So this guy took an Army-Navy parachute, took it out, and put it on my, all the carriage, you know, I forget what they call it, you know, where you folded your shoot and put it on the, and so here I am with a parachute, you know, made out of silk instead of nylon. and silk reacts a lot faster than nylon does so so when that shoot opened I got a pretty good kick out of it well when we came out and that day we were going to jump with weapons and so they gave us all a rising gun you ever heard of a rising gun no it was about it's worth a grease gun so we called a grease gun. It was a terrible weapon. They outlawed them in the military right quick. Well, anyway, I had

one of those, and when I went out the door, Harmon hit me and knocked my rising gun down, and it went down and stuck in the garden, and they this is our fourth jump.

And the sergeant said they were considering just really dropped me, send me back to the boot camp to be assigned somewhere else, you know. With tears in my eye, begged them, let me stay, you know. Well, then the sergeant said, I'm going to go up tomorrow and watch and see what is happening. and so he went up there and found out what was happening. Here, we were coming down this white line in the fuselage of the plane, and then the white line was right there leading out the door. So we were supposed to come down and make a sharp turn and dive out.

Well, I was coming down there and going out the proper way. Harmon was coming down there, and he was cutting across, And he was going through the door the same time I was, and it was knocking me against the side over there. And he just knocked me out. He was a shoot was opening before mine was opening. And so we got that straightened out.

And that wasn't the only trouble I had with Harmon, but that's a different story. Maybe I shouldn't bring it up here. You actually talk about when you did find to get your first jump, everything went good. And you said, you know, I had never made first string in any sport because of my size. But when they pin those wings on my chest and shoved a rifle into my hands, I'd at last made first string. With that rifle in my hands, size no longer seemed relevant. I had made the team and found a home. The Marine Corps filled all my dreams and all my needs.

Harmon actually ended up getting you in trouble. Yeah. Right? While you were in New Caledonia. Yeah. Well, I won't go into the Pink House, but I do in the book, don't I? I don't know. Our day off was Wednesday.

First Battalion got Wednesday off, you know. They didn't let us all off at the same time because they didn't want another Pearl Harbor type thing because the Japs were still on the offensive at that time. So he got where he would go to. down there every Wednesday and he fell in love one of those girls and they fell in love or she fell in love with him but he went in there and he didn't get the bus but last truck going back to base and he didn't get back in time so he had to hitchhike I don't know how he got there but he got there about all about an hour after roll call and everything so when he showed up, well, Fagan just put him on five days bread and water.

Fagin don't play around. Yeah. Well, when you buy it, we'd buy something over there from the PX, you couldn't go in and buy one bar of candy or one can of beans or anything like. You had to buy a whole box. So on his third day, I went over and got me a Joe Boy. Now, Joe Boy was a non-chocolic. You couldn't have chocolate candy in the tropics because it'd melt, you know.

So they had this nugget covered with peanuts, and it's called Joe Boy. So I went by there one night, and I opened up, and I was eating one of them, and I hollered at him through the barbed wire thing. He was in a tent, and it was kind of been a clearing in the woods, you know. He said, throw me one of those things. I haven't had anything but bread and water for three days now. I said, no, I'm not going to throw you. I was against the rules.

Oh, come on, please. I would do it for you. Just come on. So I looked around, took two of them out and threw them in the old line. Corporal of the Guard. Fagan had seen me. Well, he came over and he said, put this guy in there. and

Ot Farris happened to be the Corporal of the Guard at that time and he said well we can't

we're all packed up you know we don't have there's just one bunk what thing

caught in there and the rest of them are all packed ready to go and said there's no place for him to sleep he said

well take that guy out and put the guy in there and so the next day I was sitting there and I'd already had a couple loaves of bread and water

he came by with a box of candy I said come on throw me one of those things I'd throw it on. He said no that's against the rules I don't want to get in trouble so he never did throw one over to me cold-blooded now you were going to get

sort of written up for that and Lieutenant Hall who you know you had a lot of respect for I'm going back to the book here so now you're checking in with Lieutenant Hall and he's supposed to write you up and put this in your permanent record yeah and he says Harvey he said with a document in hand I was ordered to write you up but I can't put it in your records as all our records have been stowed away to remain here I'll have to carry this paper with me and it will surely get lost in the jungle before we get

back to civilization again I got a knowing smile and a pat on the back now get out of here and forget what has happened get your gear in order I think we're taking a boat ride I gave him the smartest salute possible and said thank you sir I appreciate what you've done for me I think I might have skipped to my tent filled with the deep joy and the deliciousness of being a marine I left my troubles behind me and soon got to feel the thrill of combat I realized soon after in the heat of battle that the harsh demanding training of that major Richard Fagan sergeant ot Ferris and Lieutenant Ralph F. Hall put us through paid off. We performed well under fire. Ferris and Fagan received wounds in the Battle of Iwo Jima. Lieutenant Hall died in the Battle of Iwo Jima. I shed bitter tears when I heard the news of his death. He was a great Marine. At Iwo Fagan earned the Navy Cross. As we fought for Bougainville, Sergeant Ferris did some amazing things for which he received the coveted Silver Star. Later at the Battle of Ewo, he earned the Bronze Star and Purple Heart medals.

Then he went on to win his second silver star and Purple Heart during the Korean War. Heck, this guy hung around to fight in Vietnam in the 1960s. A Marines Marine, I found serving with him a great honor, one of the high points of my life. Even today, 70 plus years later, we get together from time to time. What do we talk about? Of course, the war and our buddies of that bygone era. So you had, I thought that was just a great leadership story about how Lieutenant Hall just said, hey, you know what, we're going to shred this document and it's not, it never happened. Yeah.

And then you move to your first, was it your first combat was being in Bougainville? No, Vela Lavella was. Okay. Yeah. And what was, what was going into Bella Lavella? Bella, what was it, Vela La Vela? Vela. Well, you know, we were island hopping.

And over there, what we would do would evade an island, put in an airstrip and everything, and to use to hop to the next island. Because it didn't, when it was through, it nearly vacated the old, the airfield that were you put in and everything. And so Vela the Vela was one of those stages and everything. And across the bay there, I think, is something like 13 miles or something, was Colum Bengara. Now, that was just an island just sticking up, volcanic island, just sticking up in the ocean. And it was all the Jap occupied it. But we took Vela to Vela and put in an air script.

We landed there, and that was when I had my first taste of action. We moved in to the jungle, and the C.B.s were supposed to follow us in, you know, and start building the... Well, the C.B.s were a tough outfit. They were getting ahead of us, and we'd had to show them back. So they made us, put snipers on their tractors, and that's what we did, another thing. But then when we were moving out of the beach, we were sitting out on patrol because when we invaded, we didn't run into any japs. But we found that there were some up there, so we were going to go up and attack them before they could get down. and work over the C-Bs that were building the airstrip, you know. And so it was so hot and the jungle was so thick,

we had to have guys using matchets, you know, to chop our way through there. Well, we'd last only about 10 minutes using those choppers to get through there. It's just big blades, you know, just to chop through the vines. Well, we were staggered. A guy was here, I was here, and another guy was here, and we were working our way through it. And the Jap, Nambu, opened up on us. And this Jap was up in a tree, and he shot, and it killed these two guys that were in

this line over here, and I was over here so he didn't get us, get it all three of us. Well, anyway, then he went after me, and I just jumped under the shreds and the brush and everything, and I just crawled from one place or another, and I don't think he could see me, but he was probably see the leaves and branches were working. He was firing at me and everything. And so a guy, a big guy, I had an A4 machine gun, you know, that's an air cold, 30 caliber weapon

and he had an abastas glove and he was big enough and strong enough that he could fire a short bus at a time with it and everything

so he said Harvey what tree is that guy in I said that big one over here on the left he said that doesn't mean a thing they're all big

and are on the left and right and so I said fire at one of them right time now I'll give you directions to where to go so

that guy fired at me and they saw where he was shooting out of time so this guy I wish I could think of his name this big guy I admired him because he was so big and strong but he just saturated that thing of that A4

machine gun and sure now here came a Jap hanging he had a rope around his foot and that Nambu machine gun, that's the first Jap weapon I'd seen. That's the first time I'd been shot at you know. So I remember the Nambu real well. Well, anyway, that was my first action, and man, I hated those Jap machine guns. But if I had to go to war right now, I would get me a Jap-Nambu machine gun.

and there's a picture of it right there. That weapon was something else. I had a magazine and hold 20 shells and boot. And I ran across another one at the Iwo Jima, and that's another story. And then you guys pretty much mopped up that first operation and there wasn't too much resistance? No, there wasn't too much resistance.

And then you moved on after that. Was that when you headed to Bougainville? Was that the next place you hit? Yeah, we went to Bougainville after that. You got an interesting story about Bougainville that kind of, I think, is worth, might be worth talking about a little bit because it kind of shows how, you know, war is not always what it's made out to be in the movies. So here we're going.

You were actually speaking of toilet paper, and in this particular situation, you were just done get done you'd gone to relieve yourself by a little house and then you hear the order I heard the order move out on the double as I stood between the house and the banyan tree buckling my belt something in the vague misty light caused caught my eye I stood in a rapt amazement as a guy came diligently down the tree I could see that he had only a piece of cloth around his waist when he reached the bottom he bent forward as if to pick up a sandal I watched an utter one as this scene played out before me just a little guy when he straightened up I stepped up and brought my rifle stock across the back of his head with a glancing blow he turned as he crumpled and landed fully on his back I looked down and to my horror found myself looking at a female instead of a male stunned and shaken by my act I choked on a sob and trembled uncontrollably what had I done as I stood there bathed in pity and compassion

All hell broke loose. The shatter and clatter of small arms fire broke the silence. Trying hard to choke back the sobs, I raced to join the firefight, glad to leave that pitiful, pathetic scene and act. An outnumbering force pinned us down all day. Although desperately busy during this time, my thoughts kept going back to the base of that banyan tree. At midday, our ammunition ran low. The sergeant ordered me back to the rear to find more. I veered from a direct path to the beach to pass by that tree of infamy.

I found neither her nor her body. I quickly ran around the tree and under the house to no avail. I ventured up the steps to look inside the house. Inside it looked like an infirmary or aid station, but empty. I hoped that I had only stunned her and she had walked away from the area. After the incident, I gave a great deal of thought to that lady in the coconut grove, definitely of oriental heritage. I wondered her purpose there.

I thought of several possibilities. She could have served as a nurse in the Japanese military or a resident of the island brought there by the Lever Brothers soap company to work in the coconut groves. Also, she might come from Korea, one of the many Korean women kidnapped by the Japs to serve as prostitutes for their military. No matter the reason, I hope and pray

that she survived the blow to her head and the war. in my life span I've stored many many items in my arsenal of memories the memory of that day so very long ago rests among my most vivid the memorable events on that lonely beach on the far side of planet earth have not dimmed over time nor distance it all took place because I crawled beneath a house I think I lost the last vestige of the little boy within me that day yeah that was really tough on me, you know. I remembered my sisters, you know, and thought how terribly it would be if they were hit like that. It stuck with me all these years, you know. I remember that little lady in that jungle. That was another story. There, we were sent up our, what was the name of that beach? Corey Beach We'd heard that the Japs

were fixing to come up there so we sent the first battalion up there and a company of raiders up there and we went up there left our base at about 12 o'clock

and it was 12 miles up the island and when we invaded it during the night we waited until it began to get light Well, there was a Japanese officer came in, walked into the group. I didn't see him because I was out on the flank.

But it was a Japanese officer. He came down there hollering the instructions and everything. And he didn't know it was Marines that had come ashore. He thought it was saying, because they were building up to invade that area where we were building the airstrips, you know. And so they shot him dead right there, and then all hell broke loose, because we were out numbered 10 to 1. And when I finished with doing my job and hurting that little girl, well, I ran to catch up with a bunch, you know. Well, the first guy I caught up with was Whitey Mains, and he was in my company and everything.

So we went on up there, and we were on the very end, the flam. flanked there. And we both had Johnson rifles, and that's all we had to protect that flank with. And that's the weak part of the line, and Hall came up there. Oh, I'd say about 9 or 10 o'clock. He said, what are you doing down here? You're supposed to be up there with us. And they'd going on up there, and we worked B Company. We were with B Company. And that's a company. And it was a company and A company was in the middle of the group you know and so he just said well stay here and I'll get get a name four down here to protect this flank you know the flank is a weak point of the line said you all protect it well it was a coconut grove that

we hit into and they had a road behind that coconut grove and those Japs were using that whole material up there to invade that air strip. And so here, Wighty and I were on the flank there, and that's where we were detected. Well, they began to send planes down there, and they were straight from that road that that we were strug out along, you know. And those planes were coming hard and fast. If they hadn't come up or protect us, they'd have wiped us out because there was a whole regiment of Japsar,

fixing to invade that deal right there. And those planes were coming just one after another. And they didn't even bother to put up their landing gears. They just left them down and would come along straight, and they'd drop bombs along the way. And we were on the very end, we were afraid there was going start there shooting before they got the we'd get out there and wave at them right there and they'd go by us and wave at us and start strafing and we were there all day long and

and the commander down at the library told them to to uh they're sending it up uh crafts to take us off and fagin answered no we're not going to be the first man Marines to be pushed off of the beach. We were scheduled to be taken off at 7 o'clock, and that's when we will start boarding overboats. So we were out of all day long, and it was a long day. And Hall came up a few times, and we had Johnson rifles. We didn't have the N1 rifle.

We had Johnson Rifles was a 30-calibur, cylinder, They didn't even use clips in them. And I thought it was the best weapon that I had in the war beside the Nambu. And Hall would bring us ammunition up there, and then he finally come up there late in the afternoon and said, you guys make this last because we're nearly out of ammunition. And so here we were. And we couldn't do anything until 7 o'clock.

So ships, Higgins' boats were out there circling, waiting for 7 o'clock, I guess. Because then Ot Fares came up, and he said, now we're going to be taken off. We'll start at 7 o'clock, and that's about an hour and a half from now. And the guys next to you, they're in Company B now. because of the mix-up, you know, Whitey Mainz and I was involved in.

Well, anyway, Otferrish told us that when these guys over here, they're going to leave, and when they leave, they're going to holler and let you know that they're leaving. You count the 50 as fast as you can, and then get down to the beach. Okay, so we sit there.

We sit there. We hear these boats coming in and taking off, and shooting and everything on it right there. I said, Wadie, gosh, what time it is? We should be getting out of here and everything. And Whitey said, hollered over at those other guys right there, and they didn't answer us. So I walked over there. They'd already left and didn't call it out.

So here we were, only two guys left on the beach, I guess, and we started running. I mean, well, I was pretty fast, so I took, uh, why this, uh, Johnson Rifle and I carried both of them down there, and I still beat him down to the bus, I mean, through the, uh, Higgins. Higgins boat. Well, it wasn't a Higgins vote. It was a, it was a what? L-C-V-P. L-C-V-T. It's heavier than the Higgins boat, and it was all still right there.

So here we are running down there and hollering, don't leave, don't leave and everything. Well, Odd Ferris was on the deck, and the ramp on that L.S.V. was at about a 45-degree angle because that was taking shots from the Japs. And Odd Ferris was stayed down there. And,

Captain Hayes, he's a captain by this time, he was trying to hold us up and everything, and Fagan was on that boat. And this little coxswain on the thing right there and said, we're moving out, right there. Fagin said he fought his way through those guys down there and put that pistol in that kid's hand. I said, put this back on and blow your bleep head off.

So he put it back on there. And the guys that are round out of it, they was telling us about what happened. And so here we are running and so forth. And I got down there and Ot Farris took those two rifles, threw them up there into the boat. And Hall got them to lower it a little bit right there thing. And then Ot Farris took us by our foot, you know,

and heaved us up there and haul pulled us on the end and I got up around here old whitey manes finally got there and that's how we got off the island but you held the line until seven o'clock yeah as you were ordered yeah yeah the it took about 30 to 40 minutes I guess to get everybody off there and we we were the last two to get off the island and I'd been on the beach before at night, and I didn't want to be on the beach again in Japanese territory. Now, once you got back on the boat, or you got back out,

now the next thing to do is prepare for UO? Well, we got back, they took us out, we got back on a destroyer and was headed back in to Empress Augustus Bay that was on Volgaonville. That's where we invaded to set up an airstrip, you know, to attack New Guinea. But anyway, we got the word. I forget exactly when he got it, that breaking up the paratroopers,

who was coming back to the States. Okay. And so we got back to the States and was integrated into the 5th Division. Oh, okay. Well, that's interesting that you, so that this is, when you told the whole story about your mom coming to bring you 45, this is when this is now happening. Yeah, that one. And did you guys just sailed back to America? Yeah, we came on back to America.

It was on Liberty Ships. Okay. And they got us back to Pendleton. And we got a little leave. I don't know how long it was. It might have been 30 days leave, you know. And we started forming up in the 5th Division. And that's when I...

When we got back, I was... I had what do you call the crud, you know. I broke out all over the body. It's just like having athletes' foot on you. whole body and so they brought us back and another story that I might throw in here we were stationed over there at Camp Pendleton and we lined up one morning to go into Chow you know it was still about half dark you know and we were standing there and uh at fervis is out in front and there's a group come marching up there turned out to be women and

odd fair said well man this this this man's outfit is going to go into pot we have dogs in there and then we have this group in here and everything now we got women in here she's just shaking his head and we heard of heard a guy up here said fire too far effect another guy down here hollered back bam bam and those women nearly broke ranks you know going after those guys and I found out what bam meant that meant broad-ass Marines and they didn't go for that so they was going to break ranks and come out of them but uh that's when I first found out that there were women in the Marine Corps.

And so now you're preparing at this point, you're preparing to go back overseas with the Fifth Marines? Yeah, Fifth Division. Sorry, Fifth Division. He was in the 26 Marines. Got it, got it. And is this when you met Bazelon back here in California? Yeah,

group was over there at the Chaline one time and several of the guys said, that's Baselon, there's Baselon. Of course, he was my hero too, you know. So just as soon as we got there, the line up to go into the chowel, I snick over and I said, sir, can I shake your hand? He certainly not saying he shook my hand. They went back. And that was my experience with the Basil.

Now, Cobbred Arch had told me quite a bit about Barcelona because they were, He was about, how far did he say? 30 yards. 30 yards from Baselon, when Barcelona was earning his Congressional Medal of Honor. You know, he was the first enlisted man to be awarded Medal of Honor in the Marine Corps and World War II. And then, you know, he came back, he was in prairies and all bond drives. and so forth. And he had it made, but he wanted to get back to the Marine Corps

and work with the Marines groups again. So we joined up and came back, and he got killed at Iwo Jima. Now, wasn't, and we'll get to that for sure, wasn't, did I read that Cobber was actually Chesty Pullers Runner? Yeah, uh-huh. Was that Guadalcanal? Rolada Canal, yeah.

He was talking about Guadalcanal all the time, you know. And I'd never heard of Chester Puller until Cawber started telling him about it and everything. And Cobbri loved that. All the Marines loved old Chester Puddler. And I'd like to have served under him. But I served under some good guys. Fagan was one of them. He was, you know, he wasn't little like Chester Pillar was,

but he was an efficient leader of men right there. And then what did he, so you're back home in America for how long are you back home for getting ready to head back over? Well, let's see. It wasn't too long, you know. I had to go over there. I told you I had to go to the hospital. be treated for, we called it Japanese crud, no Chinese crud.

And it was just breaking out, you know, kind of like, I always thought it was kind of like athletes, footwear with their whole bodily. And the only treatment, they'd put some kind of blue medicine on us and that thing. And so I was over here in the Balboa Hospital for nearly a month for, for a month, for a I was released from there before I got rid. There was a lot of us in that same position, you know. And then back on another ship to head back overseas? Well, we trained over here for a couple of months,

and then we was trained up for to go overseas, and we made a practice invasion of one that is little islands off off of here and we invaded it you know practicing and

and when we got there we was lined up on the beach and we kept sitting there waiting to be told to move on the end or something like that we sat there

and sit there and everything finally the officers came on the toilet and said hey we're going back on the ships we're heading overseas again and so

we went back aboard ship up and went over here came over here to Camp Pendleton and started getting ready to go back overseas again and that's when I asked my mother to find me a pistol and that's when she came over and then what you do more training in Camp Tarterr that's the big island of Hawaii yeah okay so your camp was called Camp Taro so we trained there and I was that's when I was assigned to an assault squad and there's a demolition guy in that thing and that was

quite an experience and let's see then we trained and got ready to go to Ewo and while we were training there at Camp Torra well on the big island, you know. They'd line us up every Tuesday. No, I mean Wednesday, and give us two cans of Lucky Lager beer. Well, I didn't drink right there, but Carver loved that beer.

And so I would give my two to him, and he would take and hide those and drink his two with the boys, you know. And he swore me to secrecy. Don't you tell anybody that I got to. So when he hit the island of Iwo Jima, he was carrying 14 cans of beer. Well, anyway, on the way over there. Actually, there's a picture in your book, and you got him with a little demo satchel on,

but you say there's no demo in that satchel, it's all beer. Yeah, there's beer. And he threw away his gas mask and had four cans of beer in that gas mask. Oh, that's what it was, gas mask container. Bag, you know. Well, anyway, we heard on the ship, we listened to Tokyo Rose. You know, we like to listen to her because she played good music, you know, and she was supposed to be breaking our morale down, but she was helping our morale.

She said, well, I hear that the Marines, she always said, well, I heard that the little Marines are going to be hitting one of our islands soon. And she said, they better bring their gas mask. And we heard that, you know. And I said, Carper, what's you going to do? I'm going to shoot you. And so they didn't use gas on us, thank goodness. Did you, when do you find out back then,

when did you find out, hey, the target is Iwo Jima. That's where you're going. When did you start getting that briefing? and know where you're actually heading. Was that once you're on board the ships? Yeah, we were on the board ship. Well, we got aboard ship, and we sailed around, and we went over and made a couple of practice landings

in those islands in Hawaii, you know. And so we went ashore. We anchored out at Pearl Harbor, you know, and they gave us three or four hours. hours leave off the ships you know so there's a group of us together was down in town here in Hawaii this is not Hawaii though is it close anyway anyway we were all down there and and one of the guys in my group was walking around and galking it everything you know on the island and and I

this guy named Lucas that was in my group when we was walking around, he looked at, he said, there's my cousin over there. And so we went across the street, and it was Lucas, his cousin, you know. What was his name? Jack Lucas. Jacqueline Lucas, you know. And so he stayed with us and walking around there and everything. thing and we said we got to go back to the ship and so we went back to our ship and

Jack and Lucas was still with us and when he went aboard we got aboard he went in and checked in he was on there about three days out I said I was talking to the other Lucas you know so was he a civilian was Jack was the cousin a civilian or was he another Marine he was another Marine okay Lucas was a Marine. So he just went aboard with us. And he was there for about

three days and I said, you better take your cousin over there and tell him that he's not aboard this ship where he's supposed to be with his outfit. He was going to be a replacement in a first division. But he wound up

in the fifth division. What was it? In the 26 Marines? Yeah, he was 26 Marines with us. And he got hurt. He threw himself on a hand grenade and two hand grenades and saved him, his buddies, you know. And he got the Congress and the Medal of Honor. You've probably seen or heard of him because he, and he was from Mississippi.

Mississippi. I forget the name of the town. And I just thought I was going over to see this guy in Georgia. And I went through that town and I got past it. So I said, I'll just go back there and see old Lucas. And so I turned around as I turned around was going back. I was heard on the radio. He had passed away during the night.

And that was the last I seen or heard of him, you know. Then, so you finish up your training in Hawaii. Now, is your next stop going to be Iwo? Yeah, Iwo, yeah. Did you guys know, did the intelligence that you got paint the picture that EW was going to be a really, really hard fight? Did you guys know that going in? No, we didn't. We had no idea what was just another island.

But when it got light, and I looked around saw all those battleships and just... So you weren't any more nervous for that? You just thought, I'm going to go do what I've done the last few times? No, I was scared to death. Fair enough. Well, you know, Ot Farris and Captain Hall, I was there. runner and I was telling them before I'd ever seen any action I said I don't know how it'll be when we see action I'm afraid I'll be scared to death and everything and

Captain Hall said that's what you want to be you want to be scared to death said you should be scared half to death and you know there's no meaning that that being scared half to death because I was just scared half after death a lot of times, you know, and I'm still alive. But they said, when you're scared, when the air takes over, it dumps adrenaline into your brain into your muscles, and you react and everything. And I know that's what happened to me,

because when I got hurt, I knew what was going on and knew what I had to do, but still just scared it I could be. And that's what saved me, I think. Um, did we already, did you already get, had you already been wounded at this point before you, were you wounded in any of the other, uh, oh, no, huh? So you're still, you're still as lucky as they come, right this point? Yeah, I wasn't wounded at all. Now, Carberry had been wounded before we hit EWO. He had been wounded at Guadacanal. And he got that night that Baselone did his thing, and he was, oh, about 30 or 40 yards from Baselone on that line, you know, and the shell hit him, so they took him off.

And he had, a lot of those guys got malaria. And he had malaria real bad, and they took him to. Australia and there was a ship there going back and he was so with that that wound that they hadn't been able to treat it because the Navy took off with all the the medical gear and everything so he actually didn't see a doctor until he got back to Australia and so he went back got back to the States and he wouldn't take a discharge. And they sent a corpsman back with him, you know.

He just put on a merchant ship. It was going back. It wasn't a Navy ship at all. The merchant ship was going back. And that corpsman said, Cobb, they're sending you home to die. And they're going to discharge you. And so, Cobber, he said he didn't know whether to believe that corpsman or not, but they sent him up to Tillamock Argon. And there's, they had a balloon station up.

You know, they put big balloons up in the area with on cables, you know, to protect areas, you know, military areas. the Japanese would probably see if they tried to invade us. So he got in with Cross, Bill Cross up at that time, and a guy named Hoss Fly. He's a horse fly, I can't think of his name, but he's from Wichita Falls, and we nicknamed him Hoss Fly. He was always talking about horses. Well, anyway, they were up our garden a naval base at Tillamook, Oregon. And they was trying to get back to the fleet Marines, you know.

And they wouldn't send them. So they was doing things that they shouldn't be doing. They wrecked a Jeep. And that brought it to a head. And they said, you're going back to fire after a rifle company. So that's the way he got back in. to a rifle. Yeah, that's where you want those guys

that are out wrecking Jeeps. Put them right back at a rifle company. Well, I was when I was put in the hospital over the Chinese crud and lost contact with my outfit and so forth. And I wind up with Nails Copeland and the barracks over the barcks over. there that was nearly empty and so I went over there and checked in and Copeland was

the sergeant in charge and he was the only guy in the whole barracks and I said where is everybody said well it is emptied out we were waiting to fill up again he said just go down there and find a bunk anywhere in the end I said well what room do you want me to be in well the lower floor they said There's not three or four guys down there anyway, just take any bunk you won't, you know. So I fooled around there and ate supper and everything and got in the bunk, hung my uniform on the end of the bunk on a hanger, and I was sound asleep. And about 10 o'clock, lights went on, and all these guys were hollering and singing and everything.

right there. I said, you guys knock it off and turn out that light. Who said that, big boy? Who said that? Well, I said, I get those lights turned off. And here he comes over, where are you? Where are you? Where are you? So he comes down there, he was going to fight me. So I jumped off that bunk I was mad enough to find anybody so here he come he was not much bigger than I was you know because he's been hurt you know and everything and he saw my uniform and I had my ribbons on there and everything hey you're a combat Marine welcome aboard so he said come on over here we got some uh some sandwiches and some beer and so forth come on over here and I said I'll eat a sandwich so I don't drink beer and so that's how I met Cobber Darts

and we'd go on Liberty together and they liked their booze and and Hossfly liked his booze too and he drank pretty heavily so it wound up I didn't drink so I happened to take care of Hossfly and they were at a day and he and cross, covering cross would go off somewhere and I had to take care of a horse fly. Well we were out in Olive Grove or someplace here in close to San Diego I guess well it's closer to LA I guess and we couldn't find a taxi or anything and I didn't know what to do we couldn't find a place to stay with him and everything.

So there was an all-night movie going on, showing porno films. So we went in there, and we both went to sleep, woke up the next morning, films were still showing, so I got him out, we finally got home,

or back to camp, and that was my experience with horsefly. Hossfly was killed at Ewo, and Cobber and and cross were wounded too. Let's see, in the book I told how a cobra was winded, didn't I? Yeah, you did.

You want to hear that now? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you hit the beach at, I mean, let's just take it from you, you hit the beach at EW. Yeah. And, I mean, you weren't, the landing at EWO, relative to some of the other landings

that the Marine Corps done at this point was I mean what was your well before Ewo the Japanese always tried to stop us before we got to the beach at Ewo they let us get on the beach and that's when they really opened up

with everything they had you know and and it was more effective than trying to stop us before we got to the beach Well, we were on the beach, and a lot of officers and NCOs were killed, you know, off the beach. So here we are laying on the beach, and it sloped, and guys were laying down on that thing.

And when those martyrs were coming in like rain drops, when they'd hit and it explodes, it goes out and up, you know. Well, we was all laying on the ground and that was just inviting those shells to come in close to us, you know. And so, Cobbys said, we got to get off this beach. So we started trying to hollering, getting off the beach, run. So we ran, man, I ran and the first thing on the beach on the other side. That's when I realized we were on a little island. And so we got over there. and I heard that Hall had been killed on the boat and I cried because I loved that man.

I mean, he treated him like a son and Ot Ferris had been wounded too. But Hot Farrick had got off right on the beach and one of those shells that got him. And I was, we got over there and it wasn't, they weren't firing in that area so we spread out waiting for somebody to come or take over, you know. We didn't know what to do. So I was laying there propped up against a deal and I heard a shot real close to us and everything. I looked around and I couldn't see anybody shooting, you know. and then looked over about 20 or 30 yards at a piece of tin raised up and a rifle would come out

shot some made another shot so I told the guy and over next to me and he had a riot gun we called him it was a 12-gauge shotgun with just a few balls in a cartridge you know I said come on follow me he said where are we going I said we're going to go over and have some fun so I said there's a sniper in this hole under this piece of tin I'm gonna raise that up and you just shoot just shoot in there and so I raised that up and a Jap looked up and that guy cut loose with that shotgun about that far what a mess that was that guy had never seen action before with that had a shotgun he threw up and but that's That's the first real thing I did on the EW.

You know, a couple of things that I wanted to just real quick ask about. One of them was you described in the book how the ground was literally hot from like the lava, and it was uncomfortable to lie down on. Oh, you couldn't lay on it. It's the steam heat coming from up to that volcanic ash. You know, they keep talking about the sands of Iwo Jim. That wasn't sand. That was ash, volcanic ash.

And it was like BB size deal. And it's not sand. Yeah, and it was literally too hot to lay down on in a lot of places. But it was too cold with you. I was going to say, you know, in the military, we always get the worst of both worlds. Yeah. And it was too cold at night. Yeah, it was cold at night

You needed something over you So we'd lay something on the deck You know, box or cardboard Or extra blankets Or something just to get off the And then you put a punch over And that would hold the heat to keep you warm But it wouldn't scald you in it

No Yes And then what about the razor grass? I've heard about that Cutting people up Let me tell you when I heard about it. We heard about the razor grass. MacArthur decided he wanted to use paratroopers in the jungles of New Guinea.

And so they decided to send in a regiment. I forget how many are sent in. And they took pictures of where they wanted to land in the jungles, you know, and they found this place that grass in the area. No trees in that part there and so forth. Ideal place to land. So they jumped in there, and it was that razor grass, 12 feet high. And they had guys all cut up on it, run all the parachutes, and just, that grass was terrible.

And two of them were killed in the jump, and a couple of them landed in the jungle, you know, and were hurt bad, badly. and then they told us two guys were never heard of or seen again. They never, they had to march out because they couldn't land a plane in the jungle to take them out. And it took them six weeks to get back to their base, and they had to be, you know, fed along the way. They had to parachute stuff into them and so forth. So that's when the Marine Corps said, hey, we're not just. using the firetroopers in the jungle, so that's when they brought us back to the States

and put us in the place. Now, how long was it after you guys landed that John Bazelon was killed? Well, as well as I can remember, I guess it's a first day. Yeah, that's... Because I had to go back and get some TNT and the guy was with me,

he had to get some napalm, you know, He was a flamethrower. And we saw this group of guys over there, and a guy giving the last rites to someone. I said, what's going on here? And this guy said, Bashalone was just killed. And he was a sad moment for me because he, like all the other Marines, he was a hero to us all, you know. and that was bad and then I heard that Hall had been killed and I cried again I cried

unashamedly you know because they meant a lot to me you know and I just found out where Hall was buried you know he didn't evidently didn't have a family I mean a wife or any like that and I couldn't find out where he was you know where he'd been buried or anything and this girl that found this thing for me she was her name was Liberty Phillips and I'd been trying for 20 years to find this guy you know and what happened to him and everything and I told her my problem And three days she had this magazine on the way. She found out the computer, you know, what it was all about.

And I was amazed at that. And then she found out that Hall had been buried in... Well, at first, at Ewell, they got so many dead that the hospital ships couldn't take them and so forth. So they had to do something with the body, so they began to bury them there. And they stayed there temporarily for several years and brought them back to the states.

And he was buried. And nobody had cleaned his body. He was buried here in, I mean, in Hawaii at the Punch Bowl, I think it was. And I'm going to go over there someday to visit his grave because possibility, you know, I found a second cousin to him. He works with the Symphony Orchestra in Cincinnati. And he never met Ralph, but he just heard his second cousin. and he didn't know anything about kin folks or anything to him.

You know, as we progress through the battle here, you wrote about it obviously here in the book. And I think this description here is worth reading. So I'm going to go, you're out on patrol. you're trying to get back to friendly lines daylight's coming and here we go I brought up the rear when we took off in a low moving dog trot because lights coming so you're you're trying to make some movement here yeah we had not gone far when from within five yards of my five o'clock position I heard the bolt action on a machine gun declaring the operator had braced it for firing I'd heard this harbinger of death before it's

stood as one of the hard lessons I'd learned in the jungles during the Solomon Islands campaigns. I recognized this telling sound of a Nambu, a Japanese light machine gun. This deadly weapon could spit out a clip of 20 cartridges in less than two heartbeats. Damn, I hated that nasty little 25 caliber weapon. At that first metallic sound, I shouted, hit the deck. I landed on the ground at the same instant that a short burst of gunfire ripped through the air just inches above my, head I lay so flat on the deck that I could have crawled under a snake's belly for Joe the guy in front of me luck had played out he had taken luck had played out he had taken one or more slugs in the back the other man ran helter squelter toward our lines his headlong dash grabbed the attention of the nambu and it continued to spit short bursts at this hustling marine

while this happened the adrenaline and sense of reasoning within me worked in tandem each feeding off each other My situation was critical I lay in the Japs backyard my position exposed with only my pistol to defend myself I took a quick peek at the inner body seven or eight yards ahead of me Seeing no movement I reckon Joe had bought the farm He carried an M1 rifle to survive this untenable fix I needed that rifle and a position of concealment I knew that the Nambu's clip held 20 cartridges and the gunner fired in short bursts of three to four bullets I figured he had only a burst or two left He had one when the clip played out it ejected the sharp tinny sound singled me to signaled me to move and move I did

I came out of that prone position like a bolt of lightning man in that span of eight yards. I could have beaten Jesse Owens My plan was simple I'd race by I'd race by Pick up on a dead run and try and make it to the line of boulders about 20 yards beyond Damn about a third about on about the third step I saw Joe move slightly The plan had changed I opted to take him instead when I got there. I grabbed the back of his collar Utter panic poured raw adrenaline into my engines I could never have dragged him that far fast otherwise The rocks as a safe haven no longer stood as an option We couldn't make it that far out

Out of gut-wrenching terror I reacted on impulse Not rooted in thought or reasoning With Joe now in tow we moved into a slight depression in the volcanic ash No more than a shallow dip it had to do as duty it had to do duty as shelter for the time being What a poor place to defend and it offered very little in way of protection, but nothing else showed any more promise By instinct, I hit the deck. My timing proved perfect. The rattling peel of gunfire passed within inches of our heads.

Well, I figured we were safe for the time being. Then problems began to escalate faster than I could resolve them. So this is a bad situation you're in right now. Man. And then you look down and you see there's a thermite grenade that he's got on his gear, that Joe has on his gear. And it looks like it's been shot or it's been hit with a glancing bullet and it looks like that thing could go off at any time as well Not only that you got the nambu being reloaded

So from there you I think you stick Joe with some Some morphine and you kind of hold station how long were you in that Little depression in volcanic ash waiting Well, we estimated it was about six and a half hours that we were in that little deflation in the volcanic ash. And it was kind of a slope and then a depression, and that bullets were hit at that above us, you know. That was as though as he could get, you know, and we were safe at that as long as we stayed down. And on top of all that, you start receiving friendly fire from mortars.

Mortars start going off. Oh, yeah, they were. That was just normal, you know. They were throwing a lot of mortar shells in there. And the ships were firing heavy stuff, but not right in that air where we were. Yeah. What do you think, what prevented the Japanese from maneuvering on you? Were you just holding that position of the best of your ability, throwing grenades?

and whatnot. Yeah, that's the only thing we could do. I couldn't move, so I just had to hope that they didn't come. And then when they gave out hope, well, I was prepared. I had the pistol. I was going to make sure that we didn't take, wouldn't take a prisoner, you know. Because at Vela-la-Lavella-Vella, we were on a patrol. and a platoon of us.

And we met some Japs, and one guy was hurt, and we didn't know he was hurt, and we fell back a little bit. And then we realized that this guy, his name was Joe, something I can't think, for his last name now. And the Japs had captured him,

and we dug in for the night and they began to torture him. And he would, you know, screaming and everything. And our officers said, don't move, don't move. We can't help him. They're just trying to get you in position. Don't move, don't move and everything. We sit there and listen to him into the night.

And in the morning, when it got lights, you know, we went, and after him. And he was tied to the base of a tree with his penis cut off and it was in his mouth. And they'd taken strips of skin and pulled it off that long. I just really tortured him something terrible. And we found out that they were royal mansurial. Marine, you know, Japanese had in Manchuria had a colony up there and they were bigger

than the regular Japanese. They might have been Chinese, but they were big guys. And we got back at them, everyone about 10 of them, I guess, in that group. And we finally caught up with them. But that poor guy suffered, and it was hard not to jump up and go, but that's what they wanted us to do, you know, to come out of those holes. Because once we got in a foxhole at night, we were not supposed to move for any reason. If you had to use the toilet where you dug a hole in your hole. and those holes in the jungles

water would seep in them overnight and you're constantly using your 10 cup to take water out and throw it out fighting in the jungle was terrible it was really terrible the conditions were bad the mosquitoes were bad just jungle fighting

I hated that. And he didn't get that at Iwo Jima, you know. I don't remember seeing a mosquito or having a mosquito bite in the Ywo Jima. And with that in your mind, there's no way that you were going to get captured. You were going to fight to your dad. I wasn't going to be captured. I was ready to take Joe out and myself because. I didn't want him to suffer like that either.

And, of course, I didn't tell him that I was going to shoot him, but I was ready to do it. You spend the whole day there, and I'm going back to the book, as the long, lonely hours ticked away, thoughts ran the gauntlet of my mind. Early in the weight, I resolved to go down fighting. I considered surrender out of the question and never an option. I had heard and seen the results of the enemy's treatment of prisoners. No words can describe the pain and suffering the Japs laid on a person before permitting him to die While the political correctness might these days might frown on calling them Japs I'll call them anything I please my buddies and I have that right

We have earned it Yes when a showdown came I intended to see that the enemy didn't take me or the Marine lying next to me alive As my longest day neared the halfway point I through the din of battle I heard my name called damn the voice of Bullfisher my platoon sergeant boomed over the other noise he had brought in a combat patrol to find us now you you kind of link up and he's trying to figure out where the Nambu is Nambu is located we see you now throw I did and the Nambu answered giving away its position the platoon laid down a withering barrage of small arms fire

putting the Nambu company out of business. Peter Adam got to me first, along with several other guys. He directed them to put Joe on the stretcher and sent them on their way. He said, let's get you out of here. I'll cover you. I got set to make a run for it, but as an afterthought, I told Pete that I wanted to pick up Joe's rifle. I took one last look at the shallow defilade in the sands of Iwo Jima. What a lifesaver, the dearest plot of ground that I ever occupied.

Joe and I owed our lives to it. In a state of rage, Pete said, we would have found you sooner, but Ski came back a blithering idiot. He refused to go back to show us the way to you guys. He reported you dead. Some of the guys wanted to shoot him. The bull sent him under guard to be taken off the island.

And now I'm going to read an award citation. The President of the United States takes pleasure in presenting the Silver Star Medal to private first class Thiel F. Harvey Jr., United States Marine Corps for services set forth in this following citation, for conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity while serving with Company C, 1st Battalion, 26 Marines, 5th Marine Division, in action against enemy Japanese forces on Iwo Jima Volcano Islands, 20 February 1945. When his three-man patrol, which was sent out to establish contact with the adjoining company was ambushed by heavy fire from an enemy machine gun and one of the men was seriously wounded,

private first-class Harvey dragged the fallen Marine under heavy fire to the shelter of a nearby hole. Remaining with the wounded man, while his companion went for aid, he held off the hostile forces with his rifle and hand grenades until the arrival of the rescue party. then exposing himself to enemy fire and directing accurate heavy fire on the Japanese position he successfully covered the evacuation of the casualty by his initiative courage and unselfish devotion to duty he undoubtedly saved the life of his comrade and upheld the highest traditions of United States Naval Service for the president John Sullivan secretary of the Navy

They know what to say after reading that, sir. Well, that was a long day for me, but I didn't think I needed a reward. I was just doing what Marines are taught to do, you know. And I was surprised when they pinned a medal on me. You talked a little bit earlier about what it was like at night, and I thought this was a really good section. of the book here's the way we handled the knights on the front line once darkness set in

everyone went to his foxhole orders said no one left the hole for any reason as i pointed out we seated the night to the enemy from caves and tunnels within our lines and units these adversaries infiltrated our positions they sought to come into our holes and kill with knives bayonets bayonets or guns some simply moved in close enough to toss in a hand grenade if they found the occupants on the alert for them. So he declared open season on anyone moving around above ground. To combat this type of warfare, each foxhole comprised more or less a mini fortress within itself.

The man on watch with weapon ready sat near the top of the hole so he had a panoramic view of his surroundings. This proved vital as the deadly nocturnal infiltrators came in from all directions. While on watch, you had to stay mentally alert, clear-headed, and responsive to any movement near your position. A moving shadow in the night presented a target to challenge with gunfire. I had the first two-hour watch.

When tired, sleepy, hungry, scared, lonesome, and homesick, a two-hour watch seems like an eternity. The constant booming of incoming and outgoing cannon blast filled the night air. Intermingled with the ear-splitting blasts came the prevailing rattle of machine gun and rifle fire. Interwoven with the blare and the clamor of these machines of war you heard desperate human utterances filled with all the emotions that life allows

When your watch ends the night calls on you to sleep Shear debilitating exhaustion will put you to sleep usually a restless troubled slumber I'm gonna continue on in the deep of the night after my second round of sentinel duty a staccato of pistol fire at point-blank range Startled me awake I leaped to my feet at full alert I could see massia crouched up beyond the dividing ridge and a hoarse whisper I asked what's up he answered we have a visitor

did you get him I don't think so where on your side then I heard it the dreaded sound of metal striking the wooden stock of a rifle a Japanese grenade activates by whacking its firing pin against a solid object this whack ignites a fuse

that burns for seven seconds before detonation beyond the rim of my hole hidden in the darkness an enemy soldier had the drop on me I had no options or defense for the inevitable Then I saw it coming in a looping arc toward me a harbinger of death The burning fuse gave off a radiant sparkling light like a kid's sparkler on the 4th of July I had to get it out of the hole before it exploded with a sense of urgency enhanced by stark terror I cupped both hands together I caught it in

mid-air and shoveled it over the rim of the hole out of harm's way. Sadly, the rapidly burning fuse did not give me time to scoop the missile back in the direction from whence it came. Mascia had my pistol, else I could have scrambled to the top of the hole and possibly got some shots off at the adversary, but I could only crouch and wait. The interval didn't last long as out of the darkness came a notifying sound telling us they had armed another grenade. and sent it on its way. However, this grenadier showed some smarts. He held the grenade for about two seconds before tossing it. This delay gave me only five seconds to do my thing.

Out of anxiety, I reacted too quickly and bobbled it. As I hit the deck, I kicked it at the same time throwing up my arms instinctively to protect my chest and head. The kick and the explosion occurred simultaneously. My feet and legs took most of the shrapnel and volcanic ash hatched by the blast. I fell to my butt to a sitting position on the slanting side of the hole. I felt very little pain in my lower limbs, but my head throbbed with the mother of all headaches. I had a deafening ringing in my ears accompanied by excruciating pain.

I couldn't feel or move my legs. I sat there stunned deaf and trying to recollect my notions. another grenade landed within inches beside me. Without thought or reason, I hoisted my hips to come down on the glittering missile. This witless act placed the right cheek of my buttocks on the device. My weight pushed the grenade into the loose volcanic ash, which absorbed a great deal of the energy generated by the blast. Now, this one really laid some hurt on me.

I knew that I had to get some help quick like or I might never leave that pit alive Help, I realized sat about 25 yards away I couldn't stand or even feel my legs so walking or even crawling exceeded my options Dragging myself with my elbows and hands appeared my only option getting to the top and out of the hole took just about all my strength Kind of like swimming upstream in the waters of a flood of a river at flood stage at the top of the hole I lost it I either fainted or out of futility acceded to death I know not which lying in that state of oblivion and ethereal entity began to take form in my mind's vision out of this ghostly apparition I came face to face with the voice of my

mother she commanded sunny you wake up and get to those who can help you don't you dare give up we all love you and need and you need to return to us and then my former football coach jo coleman appeared and he said harvey you sorry little shit get off your dead ass and move out there's hell to pay and you got to pay it i ain't i ain't a having none of your quitting Now hustle else I'm kicking your skinny butt When the old coach spoke it came out as demanding commands you listened and you reacted You know I reached deep inside myself and find the strength and power to drag my failing body the last few yards to help and safety Thanks coach Joe

At the brink of the hole I came to a halt to alert those inside of my presence before exposing myself to possible friendly fire. I called out Sam. This is Harvey and I'm hurt bad. I'm coming in Now don't shoot. So three grenades thrown at you in your hole. Fear saved me. You were able to throw the first one back? Well, I just kind of shoveled it back. I didn't actually catch it. I just shoveled it out. It just struck my hand. I got it out the whole. completely but not where I should have I wanted to go took back toward the guy that's done it but that didn't happen and then the second one you bobble it a little bit lands at your feet yes it landed at my feet I kicked it they kicked

back took me out of the game how many days this was six or seven days into the battle that this happened the ninth night okay it was the same night by buddy Lee Darch was wounded and so forth and you were gonna tell that story about how he got wounded yeah which is I mean it's in the book it's it's crazy yeah you want to tell us how he how he explained that situation to you yeah I'll tell you he I'll tell you he he was a good Marine. I mean, when the chips were down, he played the game. He was put out front, he was a scout sniper.

That was his designation. And he had in the hole with him a young guy that had never been in action before, Danny Cruel. And Danny was a B-A-R man, B-R-R-R-A-R, after Brown. automatic rifle. So there in the whole, Carver's in his poncho, getting a rest,

and Danny was supposed to be on watch. Well, Carver was sound asleep, and he was wakened by a kind of a gas cry out, you know, and he rose the poncho edge real slow-like look, and he saw that a Jap had straddled Danny Cruel, and they'd cut his throat.

Well, Cabre had his cable knife right there about beside him, stuck in the thing, so he took the knife and was able to get the Jap in the back and took him out of the picture. But there were two other Japs in the hole, and they didn't know that Carver was under that poncho, and he didn't know that there was in the... So he got to his knees

turned and those Japs began to ban-edding. So they got him in the chest, got one lung. They got him in the chest three times. And he had his arms up to protect himself. And one Japs stuck his bandette through his forearm here, came out here, went through the muscle here, out here. And the other Japs put the same hurt on his left side.

So here he is, flexing his muscle. They can't drag the, their band-ins out, because when he flexed the muscle, it tied them up. And so he's struggling there. Well, a guy back up on the side of the hill figure,

he saw this action figure that Cobber and Danikrull had had it. So he throws a hand grenade down there, and it didn't go in the hole, but it must have done some damage to the guys at the bandette, Japanese, you know. Well, the Japanese were scared off, so they left, scrambled out of the hole, and the copper was able to get his arms divorced from the bayonets, and he took Danny Cruel's

B-A-R and shot those two jobs as he ran down the hill and he was awarded this silver star for that he deserved it well as I told you before Carver loved his beer and when he hit the aisle he had 14 cans of beer

well on that ninth night left of the ninth night when both of us were hurt. He had only eight cans of beer left. Well, they finally get to cover and get him on a stretcher and is carrying him back. Now, this isn't the dark of the night. And they get him on the stretchers and they take him to the rear for help and everything. And he's having trouble because blood is forming in his mouth, his nose and so forth. But he's able to tell the guys

I forget the sergeant was carrying him right there. But he said, when you guys get back, there's beer in my backpack. Plop, they drop him. They run back there, got the beer, and drank it while they're still in the hole. Come back, they can't find darch. It's dark, and he's calling out to them. and he can't be heard because he had so much blood in his mouth and everything. So he laid there until dawn until it got light enough to find him.

Well he loves to tell this story when he gets around a bunch of guys at the U.S.O. and the American Legion and the veterans are foreign wires. And I'll take him over those from the hospital. I'll take him over and he tells that story. story. He said, this is my buddy. He nearly got me killed. Then I tell the true story, you know. He nearly got himself killed. And he was a character, and I loved that guy. He was really a guy. And I guess the lesson to be learned there is Marines love their beer. Oh, yeah. They loved their beer.

Now, you get, and you already seen the flag been raised? Well, I think that was raised about the third day there, I guess. It was somewhere like that. But I was on the far side of the island on the other beach. I think I alluded to that earlier tonight. Well, anyway, let's see, that's how that was happening. Oh, I was working, there was a big cliff there, and there was a pillbox on the side of that other beach. You know, we ran to that other beach over there.

Well, there's a pill box there, and it was, they had, Nambu, I guess, was firing at those ships that were sitting out there, a small boat. and everything. Well, we're sitting up there and this pillbox is on the side of this sloping hill down to the beach, you know. And so

they load me on a rope to put a shape charge on the top of that pillbox, you know, is concrete. So they're going to me down there and I put a shape charge on that And that didn't phase that. So they pulled me back up. And then a guy was with us radioed that,

oh, that little ship out there, let's see, is a landing craft infantry, LCI. And they had a twin barrel, 40-millimeter deal up there. and they began to fire in the right there, and they just pumping things. They were bringing these clips with four of those shells on it, putting them up there, and this guy would fire, and then another guy would pull him off there, and they'd get it, and they were laughing and then whooping it up, and they finally just drilled a hole in that thing, that pillbox just exploded.

We used it up there, and every chairing on the thing, just like. And later on that day, we've come up to a cliff, a hill thing, and there was a big door over a cave on the side of that cliff, and it was heavy with wood and metal and so forth. So I had to use, I was going to use TNT to blast it in. So I put the T&T, I put a whole pack on the pole and I was carrying it. And I was going to come up the side there and the guys were protecting me, you know, around. And the Japs that came out to meet me or anything. So I'm slipping up there And I have my pistol that my mom had sent me

I had that in my right hand And I had this Charge of T&T on a pole And I was slipping up on that thing From that side And I was going to put that on there And put a short fuse on it And let it blow it out

Well as I was walking up there A Japcom runner from around a rock right there and he had a band and come charging out of him and I took a pistol and shot him about three times in the belly and that's the only time

I had ever knew that I'd killed. That was my kill right there and nobody fired because other times when we'd see a job there may be four or five of us firing at the same time you know so you couldn't claim but that was my kill. They all

cheered me back over here And so I sit off that TNT and it didn't phase that door at all. And so as I was coming back and we were looking at that guy's rifle and he was out of bullets, the one that I'd shot, you know. And so about that time, I heard a cheer. Man that cheered just like somebody made a touchdown, you know. And I stepped back, look up there, that flag had just been raised. And I was about, oh, about 50 yards, I guess, from the base of that volcanic,

of that cerebrachi. And I thought, man, the war is over right there. We've won right there, but it went on for another 30 days, you know. but Ira Hayes was one of the guys that lifted that thing and I knew him

and of course at one time I thought I was the only guy on the island that didn't help raise that flag because everybody was saying I was one of those guys that raised a flag and that was one of the last things you saw before you got evacuated out

I know you talk about in the book, you had them turn your stretcher so you could see the flag before you left. Yeah, uh-huh. Before you're medically evacuated. Yeah. Well, I was hurt. Lee Archer and I were both hurt the same night, the night, the night. But there was some discussion about we were hurt the third night or something. Was it the third night?

That's just poor reporting. Yeah. Well, anyway, he was hurt the same night I was, and I was taken out to put on. Well, I wound up in a long ditch that they just used a bulldozer and in the volcanic ice, just dug a hole there, and it was about 100 yards long.

just lined with guys on stretcher and the guys were working on them and I woke up and I'd been doped up you know and I woke up and I knew somebody was working over me and they got to my boots and I wanted my boots I was proud of those boots my paratrooper boots you know and he said oh one of them's no good and I said I want to to make him be fixed and I was I was nearly in tears you know because I was hurt and that was on the influence of morphine and stuff like that so I said I know I want my boots I want my boots and so he took them off and I was laying on my stomach and I hugged those boots right here pulled them up to me because I wasn't going to lose my boots I was so proud of

and then I went out and the next thing I know I'm being put on a board. I was in a L-S-T below an LST and they were going to take me off that board with four other guys with a platform on cables. They started pulling up and one of those stretches. fell off. It was metal, farmed, and chicken wire on the bottom of it because it was a metal stretcher and that went to the thing. And there were about 12 sailors on the Higgins boat and on the LST. Man, they dove in there trying to get to that guy but he just went down so fast and he wasn't able to save him.

And so they pulled me around to the front or the rest of us around. There was about four or five of us still on there. So they pulled us around and they opened those doors on the LST and let the ramp down. And that boat just went up. Higgins boat just went up there

and they took us off, took us up on the top deck, pull alongside the USS Ozark. Now, that's a mountain. So the supply ships and troop ports were named after mountains. So the USS, the USS Ozark, that's where I was taken up there, and I was on the deck. It was raining.

and a doctor was going through and picking them out. They got to me and said, he said, take this guy in first, take him right on the end. And I said, I wanted to see the flag. He said, well, he's up front right there. And just like a miracle, that ship slid around on anchor because the seas was really rough that day and it was raining and everything. all of a sudden there was shafts of light coming through the clouds and you could see that flag up right there and I cried.

And then they took me down there and I still had my boots and the doctor, Dr. Anderson, he said take him on in there right quick right there. And so went in there and they put me up on the table and still had my boots and I still had my boots and Corman tried to take my boots. And I wouldn't give them, oh, you don't take my boots. You're not, don't take my boots. And Dr. Anderson said, let him keep his boots.

Well, the next thing I know, I'm in a room about this big, and it's in the room where the ship's crew lived. That's where they had their bunks in there. So I'm on the bunk. is about four or five feet high here and then another bunk below. But up there above, I could reach. There's pipes going through there, through the bookhead up here. So I reach up there.

Now, I'm under an influence of something that should never have been given to me. It wound up that I was allergic to it. So I know what I'm doing, but I can't keep from doing it. So I grabbed that pipe and pulled myself off at the bunk. I was going hand over hand to my boots. I was going for my boots. I was desperate, you know. I was crying out.

I was calling for my boots and everything. I looked back on it, I thought I was crazy. Should have been crazy or something. Well, anyway, I get to a door, and above that door, the pipes went through the bulkhead up there. And so I reached up in there and I was going to the other room, and I lost it. I fell on the deck. And I don't know what happened, but I was on the deck.

But I wound up in a big room. There was a big area on this ship. It was lit up, and there was all kinds of cots all around here, and the guys laying on it and everything. thing. Well, I wake up and I'm thirsty. I've got to use, I've got to do a bowel movement, and I was real merely. So I hollered real loud, corman. There was no cormon, and I didn't have any needles in me, you know, feeding me, you know, all that stuff. And so I hollered, And all these guys, they had head wounds and bandages on their head, you know, and they all hollered and everything.

And what's going on? So, lay there, and there's a guy next to me. And, of course, his head is here, my head is over here. And I could see, he was looking up at the ceiling. I said, hey, mate, where are the corpsmen's here? And he didn't answer me. And I got real mad about him. I said, let me know what's going on here.

So I hollered real loud again. And all these guys began holler and screaming to everything. And I was shaking my head and mad and everything, hungry, and it's miserable. And so I gave up and I laid there for a while. Well, I heard the door open. I looked up. It over here is about 30 yards, I guess, from me. And this big room, well, there was a truck or something over there, a park, and they used

those hull tanks and trucks and things, those ships, I tell you. But this room was well lit, and all these guys were just laying on, cots, you know. Well, I heard this door slam and I look up, and it's Dr. Anderson got it to operate on me. So I holler real loud, Dr. Anderson, and all these guys began to hollering and scream at me and everything. And he walked on down there, and he just kind of shook his head and kept walking, you know. And then, man, I knew I was in trouble.

I needed help, you know. I said, I'm going to watch that door. If he comes through again, I'm going to walk, went out of the door on the left side. So I waited, and sure enough, about 30 minutes or something like that, I don't know, I heard this door open and here Dr. Anderson comes in. So I'm smart. I'm not going to holler and let these other guys fade me out. So I began waving. I began to waving. He used to walking, kept walking right there. Then I said, and I had to holler. So I hollered again, Dr. Anderson. And all these guys began to holler.

And then he stopped and kind of shook his head. And I was waving at this time. And so he comes over there. He said, with Harvey, what are you doing down here? I said, I don't know. He said, I've been looking two days for you. And I just presumed you'd been buried at sea. And he said, you don't know how you got down here?

I said, no, I don't know how I got down here. So he said, I'll go get help. I don't go anywhere. And I said, I'm not going to wait for you. While I was waiting for him, there was a group of about 12 guys came in. And I could tell they were doctors and corpsmen and everything. They started over here and they'd come to a thing. There would be two guys that had put their, they had stethoscopes.

They'd put on these guys that were laying there, and sometimes they'd just shake their head, and those Corbyn would take him off and put him on a stretcher and take him away. And they'd work along there, and I was hoping that Dr. Anderson would get back, and these guys would come to one guy right there, and then they'd shake him off and leave him there. going around so dr. Anderson came back down there while these guys going I said doctor what are these guys doing they're taking some of these guys out he said Harvey these guys we there's nothing we can do to help them they have head injuries brain injuries and they're brain dead right now he said there's no

hope for them we can't do anything for them so we're bearing most of them at sea and I said what was I doing down here and he said I don't know how in the world they got you down here and I told them that I'd what I'd done you know and they didn't know what to do with me so they just put me down there with those guys and so he said you wait here and I said I'll wait here so he went up and came back with with four Corman with him and they put me on a on the stretcher and take me over to the door and that doctor he got down on a drop down on one knee and these guys were

working together I said doctor you can't help these guys in here she said no we can't help them there's nothing we can do they're in God's hands and I said well I guess I was in God's hands too for a while he said I guess so so said we're gonna pull into Guam and we would be taking you off you'll be taken back to Hawaii and so forth and so sure enough in about an hour they took me off the ship and dr. Anderson came down and and I thanked him and I guess he saved my life and then They took me to IAida Heights at Pearl Harbor, and that's where I was in a full body cast up to here.

All the way down, they had split. Each leg had a cast over it, too, on one piece. And they put me in the room with this guy here. Now, when you, before we talk about that, I know you brought a photograph today, a big photograph of, you know, very kind of typical picture that you see of a bunch of military guys. This is a picture of Marines clearly. And this picture right here is a picture of the First Battalion Sea Company, 26th. Marines fifth division. And this is your, in this photograph, this is your company that you went into Iwo Jima.

How many people are in this picture? 243. Two, at the end of the battle after 36 days, I think, 14 of these guys walked off the island. The rest of them were wounded and carried off or died. A lot of them were buried at sea. sea because they had six hospital ships and they filled up real fast and they had to go to Guam and Saipan to be taken off flown back to Hawaii. 243 started and 14 walked off the island.

Yeah, uh-huh. And I've had this picture for years and one of them hanging in. I used to hang over my bed and every night I would look at these guys. guys, you know. And then I moved in into my living room right there and I could watch it. I looked at it every day because I don't want to forget these guys. I don't want to forget. And I can remember their faces, but it's hard for me to still put names to a lot of them. I like Darts, I remember him, Peter Adam, remember him. My officers, I remember him.

And just 14 guys walked off that island. And war is really costly in lives and everything. And I'm not going to ever forget these guys. We won't either, sir. Yeah. When you're in Guam now, you're basically in a medical ward, right? Yeah. Aida Heist was the name of the hospital there.

It overlooked Pearl Harbor. It was built there after the war started, you know. And so I'm in this... And you get reunited with Cobber at this point, right? Yeah. You guys couldn't get away from each other. Let me digress here. I was put into a room in that hospital.

of Heights in Hawaii. I was put in this room with another bed and a guy in that bed and he had a head bandage over him right there and I was laying next to him and I couldn't see him and he couldn't talk to me and everything so I didn't say anything to him and everything and and the nurse could come in there and they'd take him off and bring him back after a while and he never talked and I never say anything I gave up trying to talk to him and so forth well I'm laying there feeling sorry for myself and I hear somebody Fred Harvey are you in this war just loud you know not recognized Carver's voice he has a voice

to carry for a mile and everything. So I'm raised up. I'm in this room. It's about this big here, you know. I'm in the bed here, and there's other guys in the bed over here. And I raised up enough, and I could see Carver down there,

and he's hollering, kept hollering Fred Horace. This little nurse ran down there and got in his face, and he said, you just keep your mouth shut down. I mean, she really read him off. Well, I'm looking for my buddy. She said, he said, he's in this ward, but he's in a room on the end down here.

And so she pointed out and let him down there. And he came in there and there was covered man. I was glad. Now he's in a, he's bandaged up like this, you know, his arms and everything, you know, that had taken those bandings. nets and he was pushing Bill Cross who's in a wheelchair with one of his legs missing. And Carver was pushing him like this and Bill was sitting there directing him and everything.

So Cobbri was standing there standing in the door and he said, what did he got, what did Harvey this guy standing here in this little room by themselves. They said, well, because of their injuries, you know, and everything. Why aren't you out here with the other Marines? Well, she went over and closed the door, but she didn't close at all. I could hear them talk right to her. She said, well, your buddy over here, we don't know what to do with him. He's got injuries and his legs are blood clotting.

and so forth, so we don't know what to do for him. And this guy over here, he's lost his face. He can't communicate and he wants to die. And so, God, that kind of scared me, you know, and everything. So coverage said, put them out here with the other Marines right there. and so we went up there in the nurse's area right here is about halfway down the hall

that hall that ward must have been 70 yards long anywhere and beds are on each side and the nurse's bed is right here in the middle well they put me over here and put this guy over here on the right side and cover said well take those bandages off of his face and the nurse said well he doesn't want them taking off

they said take them off right there people are going to have to see him he's going to have to learn to live with it and so well I'd seen it when they doctored him and I looked over there and they took it this was all gone you could see the back of his neck back there his backbone and everything. Only thing on his face was his eyes and he had his ears. And no way they could feed him, you know, there's no way he could eat anything.

And they just fed him like they were feeding me too, you know, just intravenously right there. And they put him over on that guy, Cobby would talk to him, you know, and he would talk to him, you know and said take out of bandages off you're gonna have to live without rotters so you're with Marines and we all understand and love you and everything and so he took off the bandages and left them off and lay there and all these Marines come by and glance at him and then pat him you know and so forth and he he spirits rose you know and of course it didn't tell us that, you know, but you could tell about his actions and everything.

So, Cobber, this is a plastic surgery award that we're on. And the guy that headed up was named, I can't think of his name right now. But he was an All-American football player in Wisconsin. And he was a big, massive guy with big hands and broad shoulders. He was doing delicate operations on guys, you know, plastic surgery. And so they didn't know what they could do with me because of blood clots. They couldn't start operating on me because both my legs had blood clots all up into my stomach and so forth.

Cobber told me later that that nurse had told him that there was no way that I'd live through it. And I'd been in there about a week, and Cobber talked to this doctor. What was his name? He was an all-American football player. Well, anyway, he said, how are you going to fix it? He said, well, we're just going to have to build him a new face. but we can't start on him until he gets strong enough to take it you know and so forth and and so Cobbri said well do you have something that thing she said yeah

we got a little booklet over here that has six facial features on it the Cobber said let me see it so he looked at six pages with six facial features on it so Carber gave it to Harold here, and he took him to each bed and had a note on their written, pick out the best-looking face in this book, so they all voted on which face he wanted, you know. And this guy, you know, he was, of course, he was happy to be out with the other guys and everything, and he would stay in the wheelchair lot and go from place to place. Guys would come over and talk to him and if he had anything to say, you know, he'd write it out and so forth.

And then they started operating on him, and they didn't know what to do with me. I'm still laying there in my cash. And then one day the little nurse came up. She's from Austin, Texas, and I can't recall her name right now. But she was 65 years old at that time, and they were trying to discharge her, and she wouldn't let them discharge. She said, I'm going to stay in here until this war is completely over.

And she did. Well, she came out and told me, we think we might have found a way to help you. And she told me, said, there's a guy had an item in the New England, England Medical Journal or something like that. And he was in New Orleans, his name was Faust. And I remember the word Sauss because there's an opera written about Dr.

Faust, you know. So I've remembered that name all along. And so she told the commander of that hospital, you know, that She wanted that guy to come over and look at me. So they put him on, got a plane, flew him over there, and they looked at me. He said, well, we can't do anything until we operate on him. And he said, I have a way. I think I might be able to help you.

Well, they came in there and they took a machine or vibrate or something and cut the top of that cast off of me and said, to decide, and then they put me on a table on my stomach. And Dr. Fausch put six needles along my spine. And you know what a football or basketball needle looks like? Needle about that long and a little head on it, you know, screw into a pump. Well, anyway, that's the way those things looked, you know.

There's needles. built like that they weren't weren't the real thing but that's what they were well they stuck those along my spine and then they put some kind of fluid in there and I thought they'd put gasoline on me and set me a fire God I it burned I thought I was on fire I was hey but I thought they started to kill me really they said no Oh, that's just a symptom there. They're not burning it up and everything. And so they gave me about six of those treatments.

And the legs began to clear up, dissolved in the blood clots. And then the doctor started operating on me, plastic surgery and they took skin off my legs and put it on my butt and everything and then they took a picture of me and it looked like my legs and my buttocks had been worked over by a guy that made tattoos on guys looked like a doctor had a doctor had tattoo artists had fouled up and this thing.

My whole backside was just black. And it was that volcanic ash. And so they got me up, got me fixed, my legs began to thaw out, you know, the thing. And it was going to take me, they came in and asked me where I wanted to be taken to hospital. and the closest one to my hometown was Corpus Christian. That was nearly 900 miles.

And so this doctor said, hey, Harvey, how about coming to New Orleans? We have a hospital there, naval hospital there, and I can look after you more. And I said, well, that's great. So I was in the hospital, sent down there. and Carver had been sent before he had left and gone to the East Coast and so they put me on a plane and flew me to California well that plane was a constellation and that's what it was used for was a hospital thing and we got nearly halfway home and the plane

developed problems and so here I am with a bunch of other guys that were a walk. I was only one that was on a stretcher. And so the nurse came in there and put things around me and gave instructions that all these other guys wanted to play. Because they was expecting that plane to go down. And so they decided that it wasn't through the point of no return. So they turned around took us back to Honolulu.

And all these hula girls met us on there, thought we'd do it in that coming in for a vacation and they put on a show for us and then they fixed the plane and finally got me over to oh what's that town across the bay they have a football team there uh San Francisco what is the name of that Alameda Alameda yeah and that's where they landed me right there and they put me out on the tarmac and I had my house hands over my eyes like that the sun was shining in right there and somebody kicked me said your little bastard word in the hell have you been I look up in this copper well he had been taken to another hospital further down the coast about 20 30 miles from there and he had been

hitchhiking for the last three weeks hitchhiking over every day to be meeting these planes that were bringing guys in and he finally found me and so they took me over there and I can bring up the name of that hospital he was in well I can't so that's not important so the doctor wanted me to be brought be brought back to New Orleans well and Cobber was still there in California when I left. Well, I was, I got in pretty good shape. You know, I could walk around with a cane and crutches at time.

And I heard that there was a farm out outside, over, across the river in Algear's, Louisiana. And the Navy had an ammunition dump over there on the river across the river. And they let Marines go over there and rehabit, you know, get better and they'd take care of things on the farm. And so I heard about it and I begged to let me go over there. So they let me go over there with a stipulation that I would take care of check. chickens because I couldn't take care of anything else. And so here I went over and I was taking care of chickens. And they had these white-legged chickens and great facilities for them to live on them.

They never got on the ground. There was on wire, chicken wire, you know. And they had oats or something that are planted, seeds, thrown in there and these chickens would walk around and eat that green is it going up high enough well I would gather up the eggs and take a man and doing that you know well the guy that was taken care that got real mad because that was a cushy job but this is the only job I could do you know and so I was taking care of the chickens you know and feeling sorry for myself and everything well I had a

bucket full of eggs and I'd take them over there and they'd take them up the naval base eating place you know and they took care of all their eggs and so forth. Well anyway I was out there and had a bunch of that and I had a walking on using a cane and I heard the horn sound right there and guys screaming and And I look up and it was Lee Darch. He's sitting up on the cab of the truck, and they were hauling slop from the cafeteria, you know. And it was covered.

He had found me. And then he told this story. Well, he was shipped to an area up on the East Coast. Do you remember what that place was? I don't. Well, anyway, he was taken up there. And he was discharged, so he tried to buy a motorcycle. And he called my mother and found out where I was, Thaisen.

And he said, don't tell Harvey where I'm at and everything. And so he couldn't buy a motorcycle because he didn't have enough money. So he hitchhacked down there. So he hitchhiked down there and it took him three days to get down there. and he got his uniform was soiled you know and he'd been in it for about six days and so and he's one of these guys that man had to be dressed completely well in that picture we tell him that he was the only marine that ever invaded with pressed denderees and all that yeah a picture in the book where it shows him from behind you can see the beer in his gas mask thing and you can also see

that his uniform is pressed and starched oh yeah and they had his initials I mean he's named stenciled on his spade you know entrenching to well he hit it took him six dry six days to no six trips arise to get down there and that was about three or four days it took him to get from the east coast down to New Orleans well it gets in New Orleans and he doesn't know where um out of it he just knew I was on a naval base down there so he has no idea what to do and everything so he goes to a tailor shop cleaning place you know and that guy cleaned his uniformed him, you know, and pressed it and everything for him because he needed to look good all the time.

So he was walking around having no idea what to do. So he saw a Red Cross car parked in front of a building right there, and it was a Red Cross office right there. So he walked over and looked, and there was a lady sitting at the desk. So he has his discharge papers and everything in there, and he left his sea bag outside, so he walked in there. He looked around, you know, like he was being following. Got up close this way and said, I've got to find a man now on a special mission, and I've got to find him. You know, it's a real critical thing. She said, I'll help you.

She got fired up. Yep, and she found out that I was over there at Iada Heights at that naval ammunition base over there. And so she said, I'll take you over there. So she closes up his office, her office, and covers holding his discharges papers on there and looks around, you know, gets a seabog and put it on there. And she goes down through town, you know, running stop lights because she was in that thing that big red crosses on it you know and she gets him down there to the ferry boat that's where they had a bridge built across so and

and she had called over at the base and they had a van over to meet him you know and everything and so he pulls the car up around that that ferry boat was waiting on him. And so, Cobber got out and he hugged that lady and she had tears in her eyes. She did her part for the country, the top secret mission.

So he gets over there and this guy, then this thing, he looks around and he thought should be an admiral or something, you know, and he'll do PFC. and so this car had a siren on it so he turned on his sireen to run him down to the town of the little town across and got him to the base and the he's going to that guy was going to take him to the headquarters

office. He said, oh, no, I can't stop by I've got to go. And he said, I'll get down there some way. So he's standing there, and you see this truck coming around the corner, and it's just coming out, and it had two barrels of slop from the mess hall on it. And they tell him, said, hang on there. And he said, I'm not getting up our thing, million flies around and everything. and so there's two guys in the truck so they put him they take the sea bag and put it up there between them and then he gets up on the hood and sits on the cab right there and when they get close to that farm where I was they begin to honk their horn and hollered and how I was stomping the hood of that truck hollered my name and everything and I was so happy to see him I cried he came

he came up right and I was really glad to see him you know it was just like losing your best friend you know and finding him in the end and so here I am and I take him over there to the sergeants was in charge of us on that farm that That owner of that farm, when the war started, donated his farm lands to be used to build ammunition dumps, you know, where the dump or mounds where they dig in the ground and had their thing. There's about 50 those mounds along there. And so this sergeant, God can't thank for the name, is in charge of the farm, you know.

because that guy wanted his farm back just like it was after the war was over. And they had to take care of the horses on there and the pigs and the hogs and take care of the house and everything. Well, they had, they was using the house and there were six other Marines in there beside this sergeant that was in charge of them. So when Cobby got, I took him over there, the sergeant was working on a wheel on a tractor. And I said, hey, Sargent, this is Lee Dorch. He's my buddy.

And he just got into town. Can he stay here? He said, yeah, he can stay here. So he took us in to his desk right there and gave us him a card, you know, get to him in and out of the guy that had already left. So here, Carvercellar, another name, and he's on base, not even in the Marine Corps anymore. And so,

he was gonna help me with the chickens. And so we take over the chickens, and this guy, big old red-headed guy, he was the guy that had the chicken job, which is the best job on the farm. He had to give it up. He was mad at me. He wouldn't even speak to me.

So here, Cobbett was on base with a card, you know, to let him get in and off on the base. And he was just another Marine. He just didn't draw any pay, you know. And so we stayed down there for quite a while. And we decided that the chickens, some of those chickens weren't during their job, and Cobber said, we need to cull out the non-layers. So he called a vet, veterinarian, and asked him how you decided which one was layered.

He said, well, put two fingers at this point and everything. we got the wrong information and we took it wrong and we killed a bunch of those layers and it cut the production of eggs out we got in trouble they brought us

they brought me in because copper couldn't go before the man you know and they were going to send me back to the hospital and and really mad and this sergeant was out there

he said well let them stay and I'll put them on the hogs And so they put us on the hogs. That's the worst job on the deal. And how long were you down there at the hospital in total, or at the farm in total? All probably three months. And then that was the end of your career.

You got discharged at the end of that. Yeah, from the hospital. Yeah, I was discharged from the hospital. And so I was free to go. Why don't you read that out loud because that introduces Cobber and what we meant to each other. Yeah, it's a picture of you too, and I guess this is the day you were discharged. Yeah, they took us out, this lieutenant and this sergeant drove us out to the edge of town, and I drank a Coca-Cola, and Cobber had a beer, and both these guys slewned us.

And that sergeant had been in charge. He was interneering tears. He had to see us go. And so... It says, our faces are bathed in sadness. We had just been medically discharged from the Marine Corps. The Corps, which had been our home, was now just a memory. We loved the Marines and thought we'd always serve the flag.

But circumstances intervened and left us homeless. We now faced an uncertain future. However, it didn't mark the end of the friendship that had been forged and nurtured by war Like brothers, we have remained close ever since Well, that's it. Yeah, and there's great detail in the book that you've got to tell even more stories, and it's great to hear those, and I definitely, anybody should get this book, and it's available right now. And I got to say there's two versions of the book, and the version that you want to order,

we'll have it on our website so that people will get the right one. It's called Hell Yes, I Do It Again by T. Fred Harvey, and it's got a blue cover. And the other version of it has a similar title. Just get this one that's in blue. What made you decide to write the book? Well, people wanted to hear the story right there, and I'd take it a lot of it. of notes and so I decided to write a book but it's kind of hard for me because I had I quit high school because it couldn't pass English well you did a great job because the book and you know

reading the book it's a it's a great read and then you know you spent you spent once you retired you said you coach football for 45 years and work with kids and you still were telling me you still work out every day yeah you still get out after it every day. Yeah. Yeah, I have weights in my apartment and I work on on the weights and I want to run the machines where you pump and pedal and I stay in shape and eat the right kind of food. And I want to die happy.

So I'm staying in good health. That's awesome. You know, I wanted to close out. out by reading one one last little piece of the book and yeah I'll just do it and and this is um this is you we went to visit Iwo Jima you went back to the island in the early 80s and this is something that you wrote as you were leaving the island after you went and visited the place where you had fought and where you lost so many friends and the book says for each and every wave that has crashed upon these shores since those days so long ago a mother has shed a tear for a son who fought

and died here many of those mothers at this time have gone to be with their sons here pride took over you screamed loudly and ran straight ahead Its notoriety was written in blood and courage. Absent are the sounds of battle that emphasized the human voice in all its emotions against a backdrop of roaring cannons and small arms fire. The engines of war are silent now. Uo Jima today offers an innocuous view in stark contrast to what took place here in the winter of 1945. The hurtful and injurious qualities that it supported those days so long ago no longer are in evidence. Yes, the engines of war are silent here, but man has cranked them up many times since in other lands.

EWO today still offers a landscape that features a rugged coarseness. Everything that took place on this spot emphasized strength, power, and courage. Time and its helpmates, wind and rain, have erased the scars of war on the landscape, but still it presents a paradox with a rugged beauty about it. Time, on the contrary, has not healed the scars left on the hearts and bodies of those who fought here. There's nothing so brutal as when men point their brutality toward each other. My plane is rising to take me back to Japan. I look down on Iwo as a new day is having its beginning.

Loneliness and sadness have crept aboard. My heart holds many unsaid words, as I can't put into words the fragments of my thoughts and feelings. Thoughts and feelings that I can't ignore, a pain of unreasoning desolation. I'm engulfed by a gray veil of sea. I leave with mixed emotions. I'm glad that I came while I regretting the return. Though great distances separate me from this island, the thought of it is always just a heartbeat away. I'm determined not to ever forget the men I marched among All my tears will not ever wash away the memories now in the twilight of my years

all I've got are my yesterdays and a whole arsenal of memories and hell yes I do it again once a Marine always a Marine and that wraps up

the books sir I don't know if you have any thing else you want to say before we wrap this up uh thank you just said it for me that's I loved the Marines and I know that at some time and in the future I will join those Marines and we will march through eternity with each other would be a homecoming thank you thank you sir and obviously thanks for coming on

more important thanks for your service and your sacrifice for our great nation well it was an honor to serve the you in this great country of ours and god bless us all thank you sir thanks for coming on my pleasure and mr t fred harvey has left the building and that was pretty pretty incredible And thanks to everyone of you listeners for giving us the opportunity to speak to these incredible heroes and share their stories and None of this would be possible without your support So if you do want to support this podcast and actually at the same time you can support yourself of course that's kind of the way we've set things up that's how echo perhaps you could show us the way to properly support sure of course be happy to all right first way is origin main dot com okay so origin that's a company our company

pete roberts company in main so it's called origin main dot com anyway this is where okay first first thing you want to do to support yourself very important by the way joint supplements krill oil that's to me and every day Supply actually both all of these are most of these everyday supplements I think yeah There's some that might not necessarily be classified as everyday supplements yeah like the mok May not be every day so well I beg to differ so yeah yeah that's like maybe could Maybe couldn't yeah I guess it's not I would say the one that I would say discipline you don't Need that every day yeah straight up krill and joint yeah joint warfarin curl oil yeah

yeah yeah that's daily so crill oil to be not to split hairs but But Jocko, super cruel oil is a krill oil supplement. And when people ask me still now, hey, there's fish oil, there's krill oil. What's better? Crile oil is better, not just because I like it better. It's factually better. This is why. Has more antioxidants.

Boom. Better absorption. Better meaning like numbers wise. And I can go into why. You want me to? I will. I'm not really sure. So the omega-3s, the omega-3s get attached to your phospholipids.

as opposed to in fish oil, omega-3s get attached to the triglycerides. So that method of delivery delivers a higher percentage of the omega-3s. Boom. Into your situation. The science just stopped right there. You had limited science.

But I still think it, you know? You understand how it works now. See, if you know that as a fact, unless I'm lying, which I'm not, you know how it works as a fact. You see what I'm saying? There's a difference between me saying that. Let me tell you what I know.

No, all right. You take it, you feel better. That's what I know. All right. See, that's a very unscientific. You'd be like, okay, I feel better. Wait a second. Honestly, if I came to you with a book and explain this to you technically,

what would have more weight? Me being like, hey, here's how this works with the phosphogenic materials moving through your membranes. Or if I was like, bro, you've got to try this because it works. Yeah. Which one would carry more weight? With me, you, well, no, with me, I think the book. Oh, the book Trump's jocco. Only because the reason that you were making actually a really good point, in my opinion.

The one, you know, the whole, it's like social proof, right? Social proof. That's like a real thing. But you started taking pro-loyal because I told you to. Because you, yeah. Despite everything that the book says, so I think you're just, speaking of not telling the truth, I think it's lied. I'm saying now. Well, you know what?

You're absolutely right. And actually, I'll do you one better. Actually, you'll do yourself one better. You told me to take krill oil. I took grill oil. My father-in-law's been telling me to take cruel oil for a decade. Literally one decade. No, curl oil.

Not even one. Does he listen to the podcast? I hope not. I hope not, too. Because otherwise, you're in trouble. Highly disappointed. Nonetheless, I'll tell you what it does. It keeps your joints healthy.

Healthy joints are happy joints. As far as joints being happy goes. Listen to you with a little jingle. I'm just saying it's true, man. It's true. Anyway, it's what yeah, this is one of those things where it's like it's like it's a marked When I say it's not the kind like hey, I just feel better. It's it's not that that's real ambiguous in my opinion when you're like hey, I just feel better You know, I just feel better. You know like there's a lot of things that can make you feel better

Like you get a good TV show on that'll make you feel better No technically no technically for most people That are not you bro. No, nonetheless you see what I'm saying when you watch a good let's say a good TV show white five five Okay, you watch Hawaii 5O. Yes. You're saying you, if I, I mean, I'm not going to speak for you. If I watch a TV program, the whole time I'm watching a good TV program, there's something nagging in the back of my mind that's saying like, you could be doing something else.

You could be improving yourself. Yeah, you're right. You could be making progress somewhere. You could be prepping for a pot. You could be doing another workout. You'd be swinging a kettlebell. Yeah. I'm not sitting there going, oh, this show is so awesome.

I feel so good about it. Am I right or wrong? You are right for yourself. I can see how you could think that. So there's times where you're watching a TV and you're pumped up like saying you're, okay, that's cool. If I was one of the thing. Well, here's the thing, though.

Do you still watch that TV program? Yeah. I mean, it wasn't on this week, this past week because the season finale was last week. So, you know, we're off for a few weeks. I don't know if you still watch it after the incident. Bro. The incident.

Anyway, my point is, if someone says it makes me feel better in the way they say it is a real general way, it's less compelling than them saying, like me in my situation I'm like hey when I woke up freaking I did like practice perfect form in getting up

out of my bed for my back not to bother me super bad to the point of it I'm me actually admitting that it's painful sometimes actually it's not painful it's just like you know you just kind of can't do it and my daughter would jump on my back all this stuff sometimes you're back I think it makes you talk right this

sometimes yeah anyway take krill oil boom six days a week Later boom my dog jumping on my back no problem I fly out of bed like I just warmed now what about Joint Warfare same deal see and here's the thing I didn't look as much into the scientific part of joint warfare Speaking of science why don't you explain your arm injury before? Yeah joint warfare Yeah, so he's this is pretty compelling in my opinion Very compelling in my opinion too so so same deal is the anecdotal situation where okay all right

Some of us may know I tore my bicep tendon off the bone again again the other side now yeah amen says that bicep life you know it happens anyway so yeah this was what a few weeks ago you're slightly proud no the way i made i made a joke i thought i was proud of the joke but you the way you explained to me that because your biceps are so massive it puts extra tension on the tendons and that's why they got torn even though you're explaining it Like it's you're hard done by, but the reality is you kind of get a big smile in your face all proud of the guns Anyway, bro, no I'm proud of the joke

Okay, okay Anyway, is that real though? I think here's a more accurate way of putting it So yeah, so okay, when you train biceps, right? Typically, typically, typically, and some people, people train biceps here But typically you don't go all the way down to straight Like no elbow mobility and then all the way up with a super heavy weight you just can't do that heavy weight unless you train that way the whole time so the cutting corners

and training in a way you know you can you can call it that and and I dig it you know yeah so is there cheating is there cheating not really cheat sets with Arnold back in the tree yes total 90 sweat body building I was all that's real though so when you develop strength in your biceps with size and all that stuff when you do develop the strength the strength exists mainly on a certain part of the curve of the brain of motion, right? So, but that strength is still there big time. Your biceps muscle or super strong, but when you extend it to this flight, you still kind of have that strength in the

muscle, but down there, it's like, I don't know, it's like the stability of the structure just isn't as much. I don't know, this is me. Was your arm fully extended both times? Both times, fully extended and me just, just little flex. Flexing hard. Yeah, just going too hard, you know, At the time, one was in a tournament, which obviously makes sense because you're gruten after it. And the other time, I was just got too excited, training with the training partner I haven't trained with for a long time. Training, you know. Escalation. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A little fired up. We'll see. Escalation, yeah. But anyway, nonetheless, tore off the bones. Bad deal. It's not one of those deals where it's like, oh, I pulled my muscle or whatever. This is so you got to go in, they cut it open, whatever they stretch it back down. They staple it or whatever, back to the bone.

actually they drill in your bone he told me that this one they drill in your bone make little holes and they staple it inside the hole they and they staple it up stitch you up so I got that less than a week ago by the way less than a week literally and so I'm like all right I gotta

I'm out of the game for a little bit I gotta get back in as quick as I can I up my dosage of joint warfare crude oil stay the same joint warfare uh doubled actually didn't double it almost double I was taking two a day now I take three

and in the morning and then two at night. It's almost double. So I do have a basic comparison because like you said, like we know, I had the exact same injury, exact same injury on the other side. Same surgery, same everything. Nine years ago, by the way,

I wasn't, like, I'm older now. So that's something too. So this recovery, like given right now is like way quicker. Like this morning while I'm putting on pants, or gin pants, by the way, I literally forgot I had the injury. Just for a second. You know you're just like doing it or whatever and we're not even a week out

Not even a week yeah because you were laid up for a while for the other one Yeah nine years ago and you were young buck you know Yeah same exact injury during warfare boom yeah and nothing that nothing nothing nothing to me that is more compelling than you Explaining the science behind it I am not saying I don't believe the science I'm saying I'm talking to you right now and I've seen this with my own eyes So that's like to me makes more sense. It doesn't make more sense I yeah yeah this is yeah it's it's to me I'm more surprised like my wife gets mad at me it's like you're injured you're injured you're gonna this and that because I'm just like cruising tick off the sling or whatever who's around lifting weights not with his arm I'm not getting

nuts actually I'm kind of doing push-ups like push-ups on it um but yeah it's like there's no pain nothing no inflammation well very little inflammation nonetheless um you I think the like what do you call it the scientific kind of information versus the peer the approval you know what do you call it's called something I said it earlier nonetheless like if I tell you like oh this works for me and like legitimately if you're a skeptic of the whole deal like if you're like I don't know if this works then the scientific like well for some reason yeah if there's some reason for me to be telling you like to do something yeah like go to a psychic yeah then it's then yeah yeah and then I'm

Like no, bro, you're dumb for doing that and then you see some scientific literature Then you're more compelled if it's solid. No, I read the scientific literature and obviously as we're putting it all together It was like all right. Let's get the right stuff in there which is stuff that I had used from other Supplements in the past but combine it all into one there you go boom all right jaco supplements also speaking of which Discipline is that the one you mentioned that you don't take every day see I who does take it every day Dave burriff so which is kind of something all about it Which is kind of something because Dave is one of those smart guys. Like Dave is kind of one of these guys who's like, he's an achiever.

He mad at his brother, by the way. Yeah. So if he's doing it every day, there could be something to do that. That's what I think. Another one of those. The way he talked to me about it, he like got all crazy. Like big smile and was like, I got it on it. He's like, I take it at this time at night.

That way I can wind down. It gets me all blah blah. I was like, dang, Dave. Dang, even the microdose of caffeine. Yeah, little microdose before you go to bed. Well, he's probably used to the caffeine. That's why I said like that. Yeah, well, no, he doesn't.

He takes it far enough ahead of when his family goes to bed. He's like taking it and then he gets a couple hours worth a good, solid output. Yeah, yeah. And then bring out of that out put it. Yeah. Bro, I've drank a coffee before and went to sleep. It's almost like the coffee put me to sleep. I'm not like that.

No, because you don't drink caffeine. Because I don't drink a lot of caffeine. Yeah. Bro, if you drank like a big coffee, like the one I drink, bro, you'd be. Like during the muster because we're getting limited sleep during the muster even limited for my standards Yeah, I take caffeine. I mean, I take I take this right here. I take this right here I take jaco white tea and I take the discipline But you just keep drinking in the eye drink a lot of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah Because you know busy but a coffee you figure what 15 per serving

milligrams and then so like one of those things I was drinking I don't know not today but the other day is 300 milligrams of caffeine That's that's just don't so that if you sipped on that like over you know a two three hour period and just drink the whole thing ultimately you will be fired up no there's times where I've drank like tons of Red Bull and just been like yeah which is why I try to taper off the heavy caffeine yeah you know taper off the heavy caffeine like that's why I don't make beverages that have 900 milligrams caffeine because it does it doesn't and you don't need that you don't want that you start getting it starts it starts

it starts having other effects you start getting like you talk too much right you talk too much actually speaking of talking too much I just met someone that came to roll and they were like oh yeah you know it's really good to meet you because I listen to the podcast you know he's like cool then we rolled and we talked a little bit he's like you're just like on the podcast and I said well I mean yeah I mean it's like just we're hitting record as we discuss things and then I said probably the biggest difference between me on the podcast and me and real life is that in real life I don't in the podcast I talk the whole time

And in real life, I actually don't talk very much. I talk a lot less, I should say. Yeah, especially with people I don't know. With people I don't know, I'm not very conversational. When I know someone, I'm cool to talk, but... So if you put 200 milligrams of caffeine rather than 15, you'd be talking a lot. It's against your whole thing.

Yeah. Well, it would be making me act out of character. Out of character. It'd be influencing me in a negative way, in a negative way, I believe. Yeah. But if you can just get in the zone, Yeah, it sharpens the mind. I mean, caffeine's proven. Yeah.

Proven to sharpen you up. Yeah. So, anyways. Yeah, to each his own, you know, I think most people who like caffeine, they're like coffee and stuff. Like, they like that. And that's what, that's one thing. If you, you know, you might need more discipline, you might need more caffeine to feel it if you're not, if you're used to it. If you have a, what's that tolerance?

Yeah. Low tolerance or something like that. Or if high tolerance. But yeah, and let's face it, discipline, jock-o-o-a-tie. That's not why you drink it. You don't drink it because of a caffeine. That's not why that's you know though you'll include the caffeine yeah the caffeine definitely it's a little Microdose get you get you rock and roll it but yeah that's good discipline cognitive enhancement That's what you drink it for before you do some stuff

Stuff that needs brain output that's that's when you take it that's what I take it that's what good that's when good deal Dave takes it That's when Jocko takes it also Mokk this is Protein powder but to call it protein powder is kind of dessert A disservice. For sure. Because we just go with mok. Moke.

Here's the thing, though. I don't, we don't want someone. I personally, I know. I'm going to speak for myself. I don't want someone to hear, hey, mulk, hey, what is that? Okay, tastes good, all this stuff. But, like, you know, there's a lot of stuff that tastes good.

You will get good protein from milk. Yes, you will. Very important to know that. No, no, because in there's probiotics. Oh, no kidding. See, I didn't know that. Yeah. And see, what's good, what doesn't probiotics,

okay, maybe for you, it's not like this. When I hear probiotics, I always think, like, oh, that's something that, you know, someone's like, oh, you got to take your probiotics, right? It's not something, you know, for me, it's like, oh, I'm going to take protein, good. Probiotics, I'm not worried about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But so I never, I've taken them like couple times before, but there's probiotics in it. And so now I realize, like, I feel good. Like my gut feels good. So maybe there's something to that probiotic activity. Okay, brobriot. Okay, so when you say maybe I'm not like that, you're correct.

I'm not like that. Probiotics are good. Just like antibiotics. Well, antibiotics are good, but for what they're for. I got it, yeah. So probiotics are like, they're probiotic. Well said. Well said.

Well said. Nicely done. No, basically like your gut biome, right? It promotes healthy, healthy bacteria, all this stuff. And you're thinking, it's a huge deal, actually. I know, I know. I know. Now I'm starting to realize that.

I started to realize I've been wrong for 46 years. Yeah. It's kind of like if I have like the metaphor right now. If I have the key to life, right? The whole, the answer to life, right? What is the meaning of life? I have it. I have it in my, I'm about to tell you, right?

But you have earplugs in so you can't hear me. I still told you. But you can't get it in your brain because you have earplug. Well, you put that probiotics, boom, takes the earplugs out. Boom, you got it in your brain. Same thing. Same exact thing, except it's a new gut biome. You should turn that whole thing into an advertisement.

I think that's just incredible. Maybe I will. Anyway, I will. Anyway, it's called Moke and it is mint chocolate flavor. And peanut butter's coming. Peanut butter chocolate's coming. See, that's not. And then it's just gonna be.

And I think we're good on chocolate, just straight chocolate. You're good, like, that's a go. I've got this sample and I had it this weekend and yes, it is G O D. D. Well, I think the chocolate is kind of the staple, right? It is, it is. And that's why it turns a little while because it's hard to nail it. No one to nail it. Right.

Make it taste like chocolate and not diet chocolate or something like this I'm wondering if it tastes diet anything You see what I'm saying Cool well nonetheless be on the look up for that and that is if you're taking protein powder and are like hey I want some good quality protein powder Forget about the term protein powder Yeah because that that gives you the idea that this is gonna taste like crap and this is This is the miracle it tastes delicious

And it tastes delicious and it tastes delicious and it's got no sugar in it Yeah Yeah Yeah, that's a miracle. Also. Whatever, wait. Does I have a gram? It's got, I might have like a gram.

We'll put it this way. It's not full with sugar. Like the old school Mega Mass 5 million in the big dog. Food bag. Remember that shit? Not that. Oh, yeah. That was good.

That tastes it kind of good, but still has it. It's sweetened with monk fruit. Yeah. That's what that. So if you're wondering like, well, how does it taste not like the artificial sweeteners that people serve up, which tastes nasty? Like no matter what, it tastes like crap. Is monk fruit creamy?

I mean, that's a weird question, but like monk fruit. Because it doesn't taste like, you know how you use like a, I guess, you know, like a sweetener. It has a fruity sweetened thing. Like the chocolate mint doesn't have any good of fruity. I don't know what it looks like in its raw form, but I know that it tastes freaking delicious. I'm going to look into that one and I will report back. Speaking of reporting back, if in fact you want to look at it this way, I am reporting back to the three people this week that asked me, what geese should I get when I start jiu-jitsu?

So I know to most of us this is obvious right now, but I will answer this question anyway. It is an origin ghee. And Rashgard, if you're doing no ghee, by the way. But you get an origin gee. You'd get the origin ghee for many reasons, not only because it's the best key, but because it's made in America as well. And there's plenty options on there. So me saying get an origin geese, it's not just one origin gee.

I guess technically in a way you just get if it's an origin, it's good, but you have many different options within the brand of origin geese. Gies. So go there. Like I said, origin main.com. That's where you get everything. Made in America.

Made in America from the dirt to the shirt. Meaning, because if you don't really know what that means, it might not make as much sense, but when you do know what it means, it will make sense.

This is what it means. The cotton is grown from America or in America from the dirt. Get it now. And then the shirt at the end where technically it's a ghee or whatever,

whatever you get. Boom. Anyway, Maine, everything. Origin, main. com also. There's an immersion camp, Jiu-Jitsu immersion camp.

Filling up, by the way. Yeah. Filling up quick. So get on that. Will the space is big? So which is good. Yeah. Yeah.

The Jiu-Jitsu at the muster was. How big that was? Yeah, yeah. That was good, man. And it was still not big enough, I think. Well, we'll double up if we have to. Yeah. We're ready to order more mats.

But, yeah, it's going to be awesome. Yeah. I sort of have an announcement to make on that, too. All right. You know he's coming up to that camp? Lay it on me. A guy by the name of Dean Lister. No, okay.

The knowledge, okay, good. The knowledge, exactly. Just straight knowledge. And if you come up, you get a chance to learn from Dean Lister. And, yeah, that's as good as it's going to get. Yeah. Yeah, Dean is one of those guys, like kind of those wizard types. Yeah.

You know, he's a, I remember, and granted, I was a white belt. He's not even a kind of like thing. Yeah, straight up. He's got, he's got a, he's got a, a gift. Yeah. like a legit gift that people do not have. Yeah. You ever, and I'm not even asking,

do you have you ever? Because I know you have probably many times, but you're asked Dean a question about like this problem that you're having. And you're having it because the guy who's doing it to you, this move to you is just super good. But you're having this problem. And you're kind of halfway thinking,

actually more than halfway thinking, this is not really an answerable question, but whatever the more info I have. And you ask him, and then he solves your problem. And you're like, wow, have you been thinking about this the whole time? You know, all this. Jujitsu stuff or whatever.

All of us have been living life kind of thing. That's what it seems like. He taught something the other day. And it's from, oh, you know, I use the crucifix a lot. Sure. So he taught something from the crucifix that I never saw before, never thought of. And he did it like it was just like, you know, like taking a breath. He's like, oh, yeah, when you get this, you do this.

Yeah. I'm like, are you serious? I've been training with you for 23 years and you never, maybe gave me a heads up on that. Yeah. Brah and the reason is There's so much in his brain There's so much judicious in his brain He can't even like figure out what to tell you

Unless you come to him with the problem That's why it's great to If you're coming to the immersion camp Come with problems for Dean Yeah come with come with questions for Dean Because that's what you want and then you can draw the answers out that you need from him Because there's too much you can't download everything from his brain you can't Yeah, yeah

It's not like hey he's gonna teach you like you learn this one thing No you're gonna have to bring questions to him That then he'll solve problems for you. Yeah. That's what I recommend. Jiu-Jitsu camp, emerging camp. Yes.

26th, September through May 2nd. Did you say that already? August. Oh, sorry. I guess I said it wrong. End of August. Oh, good. You know, I remember that

because that is my son's birthday. August 26 through September 2nd, two sessions? Or you can save for the whole time. Or the whole deal. Yeah, man. Good deal. Good fun.

Register at origin, Maine.com. Yep. Laif is going. Leif Babin. Dave Burke. Good deal, Dave. Yep. I'm going.

JP's going. I think's going. How's this Dean when I got my surgery last week? I'm going in for my surgery. Dean is there just coming out of his surgery. So how is he going to be as far as rolling? He won't be able to go roll hard. But yesterday, I trained yesterday, just a little in-house, little core group of guys we came and trained.

And Dean came and coached, and he was showing moves. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, this is. Yeah, yeah, he was putting fresh. Yeah. Yeah. I'll be kind of on the on the on the you'll be on the cusp yeah on the fence there like I rolled with Pete like you know at oh yeah where before I got my surgery but my bicep

was detached and I just put my hand like this I couldn't you can't you just basically can't pull yeah I can't anyway this is my injury but I said I can't pull you just have to be careful yeah so I could do a lot of that kind of rolling but I got it's it's hard I can't roll probably with like you know like level 12 yeah less experience or something like that I'll just roll with you. No, you can't roll with me. I'll roll with Pete. That's all.

I basically just trust Pete. That's it, pretty one. But yeah, go to that. That'll be fun. Don't worry what level jiu-sia you're at. Even if you're at literally level zero. We had level zero people came last year. Yeah.

Like a big group of them too. For sure. It's good. Come and get it. So yeah, come and get it. Also, for fitness gear. The best fitness gear, some of the best fitness gear.

All the fitness gear I have pretty much on it. com slash jucco. That's where you get it. Also, I got on it, socks, by the way. Freaking awesome. Got them on right now. Yeah, get the primal bells, the kettle bells. See what I'm saying?

And when you're looking for the information, before you start the kettlebells, this can be dangerous, bro. Swoon around big cannon balls. Yeah, sure. Can have a mishap. Yeah, look at the big time. They got some good information on technique and all that stuff. It's good.

A lot of cool stuff on that. all right dot com slash jaco also when you get the books that jaco reviews on this podcast i got them organized on the website joccopodcast.com books from the episode this little tab on the top click on there boom i got them all organized by episode uh click through there ticket at amazon and you know do your shopping get the book get whatever else keep shopping whatever or not whatever you like nonetheless is a good way to support if you do. Also, subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already on Stitcher and iTunes and Google Play and wherever you, or

wherever you listen to the podcast, because there's a lot of podcast apps out there and I get it. It's good. It's a good thing. Vast marketplace of podcast apps. Get in there. Nonetheless, subscribe when you do and that's a good way to support. Also on YouTube, video version of this podcast, if you're interested in that video version. Also, we'll got excerpts on there.

It's a good reason to subscribe, in my opinion. So when I put out an excerpt, maybe that's the one that really you're waiting for. Rather than sifting through all the episodes and then sifting through the episode, which is three, four hours long sometimes. And then, oh, there it is. And then listening to it kind of thing. And, you know, I don't know how practical that is sometimes. So boom, I try to put all the excerpts, all the points, all the significant points.

And there's a lot, by the way, that Jocco makes. Try to put them in excerpts on the YouTube channel. Maybe that's the one you were looking for. It's a good reason to subscribe in my opinion. So yeah, do that. Good way to support as well. Also, Jocko has a store. It's called Jock's store.

So let me ask you this. Not you, Jock. Ask the people. Have you ever looked at Jock's shirt and been like, you know what? I wish I had that shirt. Or have you ever looked at a shirt that I wear that says, Discipline equals Freedom? Have you ever looked at that and said,

dang, I want that shirt. Guess what? This place you can get up. It's called Jock Store. That's where you can get it. Discipline equals freedom. Get after it shirt. The actual shirt that Jocco is wearing

right now, literally the one that Jockel's wearing right now, you can get that shirt. Represent, big time. Good way to support and support yourself. There's also rash cards and stuff on there. Patches. Huts. New hats, by the way. Trucker hats.

Well, I like the trucker hats. Yeah, the flex fit. I thought you'd like the flex fit. Yeah, I don't like flex fit, actually. But I know that's probably the preferred hat in the population of the world is the flex fit yeah i think so like truck rats old school berk the day have you ever worn a flex fit hat yes yes yes yeah all straight up all right and

you don't like that one you don't like the convenience of this the flex fit i guess if you have the snapback you just put it on one size now like your head gets bigger my head does not get bigger your head gets bigger or smaller on a daily case really because after we roll sometimes i feel like your head's kind of bigger no i think that just me might be the way you feel I get it. Nonetheless, both types of hats on there. Women's stuff on there as well. I'm putting tank tops on there.

So be on the lookout for that. Like for dudes? Tanks tops? Yeah, there's already women's tank tops on there. So we're going to get dudes going on school. Yeah, dude. Yeah, exactly right. Boom, summer.

Summertime. Yeah. Right? Boom. Show off the guns. Beanie. Suns out, guns out. Beans out.

Beans out. Beanies are in for just in time for summer. All good. But, you know, some places like Alaska, summertime's cold too. So boom, get the beanie. Also, psychological warfare. If you don't know what that is.

It's an album, Jocko's album on iTunes with tracks, Jocko tracks. And here's what it is. Not Jock was singing. It's Jock talking to you. Every track is Jock talking to you. And what he's telling you is reasons why you shouldn't give in to the weakness that you will be given into sometimes,

if you don't have this. You will be giving into this weakness on your path, on your campaign against weakness, on the path on the war path we're all on the path by the way are we not so yeah well here's the thing I think you're kind of a leader on this path I kind of evaluated this over here doing what I'm doing okay no and and I'm I was into working out before I get it you know but it's the kind where like if I didn't feel like working out it's like I just kind of won't work out I'll do it tomorrow because I will and I would usually you know

kind of thing but when you kind of quantify it as this path and when when when the the term campaign against weakness the weakness kind of got introduced that's a really good thing too because generally speaking that's really what jams you up in in my opinion in my experience where yeah if I don't feel like doing it right I don't feel like that's weakness right if I say oh I'm not going to do because I don't feel like it then you go through life not feeling like doing stuff and not doing it and most of the time we don't feel like it especially as you get older especially as you take on other responsibilities but if you make it a point to understand that I'm gonna consciously not feel like doing something, understand that it needs to be done,

then kind of fight that kind of weakness there, that's a bath I'm talking about. And this will help you with that path. Yeah, okay, sorry, yeah, back to the psychological work. I think you wrapped it up nicely. No, no, no, I think you need to go to any more detail. To me, it's more to understand that. Because the more that, in my opinion, or in my experience,

the more I understood that, the more like kind of effective, you are in staying on this path. So anyway, when you reach like a little small point a week, You listen to this album. Specific track that is designated for that weakness. 100%, 100%, you will not give in to that weakness. That's good.

Psychological Warfare. We need to make a second album. People need to ask what they want to hear. What moments of weakness need to be overcome? I know I had some for like smoking. Yeah. Some for drinking. Drinking would be a good one.

Check. Yeah. The way it was born was because of a weakness that I specifically specifically had. Like something that it kind of got to me late, you know, like later on. Like during, at the time, I'm like, hey, whatever. Why should I put this much pressure on my self? Is that, you know, is that healthy?

You ever do that? No, I know you don't do that. Come on, let's face it. It's kind of like one of those things where it's like, it's a justification, but it's like, oh, like, hey, you shouldn't put so much pressure on yourself. You know, don't add this stress. Hey, life is stressful. Don't add more stress like this.

You know when it's like It's just an excuse Add more stress Cool It's true All right I'm gonna do a sound effect thing Are you ready?

So Jock White Tea Obviously for A long time we've had Tea bags that you can get What's that called dry tea is what it's called Yeah And Jock White Tea Available on Amazon

Real tasty And good for you And we just got it Made and put it Cairns so here we go sound effects are you ready here we go this is a jocco white tea opening There you go so now you can get jocco white tea in a can it is Delicious and it's good for you and you know even if even if you don't like to taste even if you don't like that it's good for you

You will like the fact that after you drink one can You'll be able to deadlift 8,000 pounds minimum minimum. That's the minimum yeah and it's been proven scientifically Typically backwards and forwards double blind placebo Whatever you want to call it. Yeah jocco. YT it's it's available on Amazon Eventually we'll get it everywhere. That's the goal but right now it's available on Amazon Because that's the quickest way to get it out to everyone so there you go get it It victory in a can organic. Did I tell you that? No, but I saw it on the deal on the deal on the deal on the in the beginning I'm impressed no GMOs no no reason to go and drink a drink that's gonna have been filled with a bunch of stuff that you don't want your body agree

just drink jockey white tea all right books got the way the warrior kid series and I got here's just a little note a kid a guy wrote my eight-year-old who read your back way of the warrior kid in January 2018 since then he has gone beast mode Runs 1.3 kilometers most mornings before school and 2.6 kilometers on the weekend. He trains, plays, and enjoys life since reading your book. His room is immaculately tidy. Your book switched something in him. He is self-motivated and strives to achieve.

We talk about 1% in life and doing the small things well in school and sports. Thanks for your service and the book. So there you go. No big deal, right? Can you imagine that? That's freaking awesome. His room is immaculate He's on the path

You know? Yeah The path Big time So pick up Way the Warrior Kid and Mark's mission Get your kid on the path If you want to support a warrior kid Named Aden

That's making things happen Go to Irish OaksRanch.com And get some of the soap that he makes on his farm From goat Milk He makes jaco soap So you can stay clean Don't forget about

The Discipline equals freedom field manual of course um this was awesome I was at the muster and we're doing PT it's for whatever 435 in the morning or something and this woman comes up to me and she's a little older and she just looks at me and she's like can I tell you something though that look was on her face and so I gave her the nod of like go ahead and tell me and she's like it was November 7th 2017 and I was at Sam's club and I saw this book this black book and I never saw a book like that and I picked it up and looked at it and said this I've never seen anything like this she bought it and since that

time she's lost 23 pounds and she said she's got her life back boom that's awesome so you know who you are out there so thank you for letting me know that that was a very cool story to hear and I appreciate that feedback that's the Discipline equals freedom field manual thoughts and actions both inside if you want the audio version of that which people still ask me every single day you can't get it on audible it's not on audible it's on Amazon music iTunes Google play and other MP3 platforms as an album with tracks also for leadership of course there's the first book extreme ownership the leadership book for the battlefield, business and life.

And actually somebody else at the muster said, hey, you never talk about the audible version of extreme ownership, because that is available on Audible. And guess who reads it? Laif Babin and me. And this guy was saying, everyone should be listened to that. It's better to listen to it than to read it, which depends on who you are.

But for this individual, he was like, you need to tell people about that. That's awesome that you guys. Anyone else is on that audiobook? Sound effects. We put sound effects in there, machine gun fire, explosions. Things like that.

You know why? Because. Emergent. We have the follow-on book to Extreme Ownership. It's called The Dichotomy of Leadership. It's available for pre-order wherever you want to pre-order Amazon, Barnes & Noble, local bookstore. It's going to be out September 25th.

If you want one of the first edition copies. Which you do. If you want to be a book person like me. You want to get that first edition. Because that's cool. And if you don't order it, then you won't get it in time. Because the publisher won't make enough because they have no idea. They don't understand how many people are out there waiting for this book.

So if you want it, order it. That'd be cool. If you want to work with us in person, call Eschlon Front. It's me, Laif Babin, J.P. Denele, Dave Burke. Our website is Escalonfront.com. And we solve problems through leadership. That's it. Of course, the muster leadership seminar, 05, 005 was in Washington, D.C.

It was awesome, and it sold out, yes. And there's only one more muster in 2018. It's muster 0.06 in San Francisco, California, October 17th and 18th. Register at Extreme Ownership.com. If you want to come, it will sell out. And that's all there is to it. And also for current law enforcement, military, firefighters, paramedics, and other first responders, Roll call, zero one, September 21st in Dallas, Texas.

One day leadership training seminar focused on people in uniform. You can register for that also at Extreme Ownership.com. And until the muster or the roll call or the immersion camp in Maine, if you want to communicate with us, you know that you can find us on the interwebs. Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at Jock Willink. and to the men of the greatest generation like Mr. T. Fred Harvey, thank you for your service and to the rest of the men and women out there

continuing to hold the line. Thanks to you and to your families for what you do every day and what they do to support you. Of course, thanks to all the first responders, police, law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics and those who stand the watch. 24-7 to keep us safe and to the rest of you life can be hard and life can be challenging and life can

contain a fair amount of suffering but you know what it's the one life you've got so go and live a life that in the end allows you to look back and say hell yes i do it all again until next time this is echo and jaco out