Jocko Podcast - 132: How to Win in Battle, Business, and Life with The 36 "Strategems." The Spirit of Wu.

Episode Date: July 4, 2018

0:00:00 - Opening 0:03:55 - The 36 Strategems. 1:13:43 - Final thoughts and take-aways 1:15:28 - Support 1:36:50 - Closing Gratitude.  Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 132 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. The warriors are all dead. They lie on the moor field. They struggled, but shall not enter. They went, but shall not return. The planes are flat and wide.

The way home is long. Their swords lie beside them. their black bows in their hand though their limbs were torn their hearts could not be repressed they were more than brave they were inspired with the spirit of woo steadfast to the end they could not be daunted their bodies were stricken down but their souls have taken immortality captains among the ghosts heroes among the dead and that is an excerpt from an ancient chinese poem written by q one and there's not many details of his life he was a patriotic poet that lived around 300 BC and the poem refers to the spirit of Wu which I like because Wu means

Marshall as in martial arts as in things that are related to war and things that are related to fighting well that's what Wu means of war so we're talking about the spirit of war and of course China has an incredibly rich history of art and culture and and fought for thousands of years many dynasties that have carried on that rich culture but we also of course know that China has a long history of war the knowledge about war and we've already looked at one of the fundamental books about war and strategy from Sun Su right the art of war and and today we're gonna take a look at a

another important document that comes from China it's called the 36 strategums and this document has been around for a long time and its actual origin is debated where it came from there's some people that say Sun Su wrote it actually there's a another military strategist named Zujlang and some people think he wrote it But the current prevailing view is that it's a compilation of information that was compiled by different people, different authors over the years. And the actual version that I'm using was compiled by a guy named Peter Taylor. And if you remember, so 36 stratagems. That's what it's called the 36 strategums.

And if you remember from a recent podcast that we did, stratagem doesn't mean. strategy it doesn't mean that it's a trick that's what it means it's a subterfuge it's a it's a sneaky maneuver to get what you want that's what a strategy him is now this book is divided up into six sections the first three are for when you're winning and the second three are for when you're losing the winning stratagems are advantageous opportunistic and attacking and the other like losing type strategies when you're losing are confusion deception and desperation and you know what some of these we've heard before some are a new take on an old idea or an old take

that we think is a new idea and all of them reinforce kind of what we know and allow us to think about these things a little bit different way and see them from a different angle so here we go the 36 strategums number one sneak across the ocean in broad daylight and so after they give that's that's the actual that's the that's the strategy right there and so you got to give a little explanation around some of them and Peter Taylor does it in this book he he lines him out and I've actually seen there's a there's another copy of this same book where they all have the sort of general explanation

A lot of them have the same general explanation, almost as if it's part of the same book. But to hit that part, so it says, number one, sneak across the ocean in broad daylight. What does that mean? What you see, often you do not doubt. And what is familiar becomes uninteresting and a perfect cloak for the unusual and unexpected. This strategy means that you can mask your real purpose by using the ruse or a fake target that everyone takes for granted. Tactically, this is known as the open faint in front of everyone. You point west when your goal is actually in the east.

For example, a goalkeeper when facing a penalty shot will often stand to one side or the other, effectively inviting the opposing player to aim towards the open space when in fact the goalkeeper reacts and moves to this exact space to moment when the shot is taken, thus saving the goal. So pretty clear. Next one. Two, besiege way to rescue Zao. Besiege way to rescue Zau. When the enemy is too strong to be attacked directly, then attack something they hold close to them or value dearly. So this is a little bit different than just a flank, right?

A flank means I'm going to hit your weak point. This is, I'm going to attack something that you care about. Take the indirect approach and find their Achilles heel. So that is the weak point. But the first explanation is not just, just a weak point it's I'm gonna attack something that you are you care about think about how do you do this in a relationship like a well in a business relationship or something yep and insults and oh yeah there you go all kinds of

things back to the book the origin of this proverb is apparently from the warring states period when the state of way attacked Zhao and laid siege to its capital hand-on zao turned to key for help But the key general, Sun Bin, determined it would be unwise to meet the Army of Way head on. So instead, he attacked their capital. On hearing the news, the Army of Way retreated in haste, and the tired troops were then ambushed and defeated. The idea here is to avoid a head-on battle with a strong enemy and instead strike at his weakness elsewhere. So that part we've heard before.

We know that part. But I like the idea of attacking something that they care about more. Yeah, I mean, that's a classic, right, that's a classic. Like, classic is, oh, I can't get to you, but I'm going to get to your kids. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'll kill your kids. That's always the worst, right? In all your movies that you watch?

Sure. Oh, yeah, big thing. Yeah, they always do that. What, so that is as far as comparing it to a flank, like a flank is like, I mean, comparatively speaking, what? Just, I mean, obviously, to go to the side. Go to the side. Is it. Yeah, somewhere that's not shielded or bunk.

right right right yeah number three kill with a borrowed knife attack using the strength of another in a situation where using one's own strength is not favorable trick an ally into attacking him or bribe an official to turn traitor in your favor or use the enemy's own strength against him borrowing a knife to kill may seem rather too devious but fundamentally it's making use of others resources for your own gain and sometimes without your opponent knowing it there's some underhanded stuff with this for sure the idea here is a cause damage to your enemy by letting a third party by getting a third party to do the deed in fact it can be said that your enemy's enemy is your friend which we've heard

before kill with a borrowed knife that's a good one I keep thinking about when I read these I think about people interacting with other people and how someone will get someone all spun up Mm-hmm like oh can you believe echo did this you shouldn't say something too about you're right and like like do that way Number four wait at leisure while the enemy labors It is an advantage to choose the time and place for battle in this way you will know when and where the battle will take place While your enemy does not encourage your enemy to expend his energy in futile quests while you conserve your strength when he is exhausted and confused you attack with

energy and purpose What part of jujitsu did you not understand right there so he asked me that the other day is it isn't a tactic To let someone get tired Yeah a hundred percent yeah, it's like one of the foundational principles Yeah, yeah, I mean if you look at the early ufcs if you look at hoist gracy in the early ufcs That that was I would say he used that that tactic a majority of the time yeah, that's like what essentially jujitsu is like when they started it like Helio Grace who was you know a little guy whatever and that's yeah that's what he would say the whole

time you cook them they call it cooking the guy oh yeah it's part of the deal yeah cooking them that's good I like that I haven't heard that one in a while no number five loot a burning house when a country is beset by internal conflicts or when disease and famine ravages the population or when corruption and crime are rampant then it will be unable to deal with an outside threat this then is the best time to attack these are devious aren't they when you read them they're devious amen martial that's the martial way yeah you know what I've seen some companies some businesses that do that right there and they do it well yeah when they're really

when they're really hostile they sow the seeds of all that all the chaos all the ravages and all the famines and all the corruption and crime when a company's really devious they sow those seeds with the other company and then they watch them fall apart and then they go in and take them down Yeah Luda burning house means taking personal gain From bad situations that your enemies are facing while a house is ablaze or during any major Distermints there'll be enough confusion to make it easy and accessible to steal or take advantage of the situation When your enemy is in a state of confusion and chaos it prevents the perfect opportunity to wipe them out

Number six make a sound in the east, then strike in the west. In any battle, the element of surprise can provide an overwhelming advantage. Even when face-to-face with an enemy, surprise can still be employed by attacking where he least expects it. The idea here is to get the enemy to focus on one location and then attack a weakly defended spot. In boxing, fainting is a body movement or an incomplete attack

used primarily to create a certain reaction from the opponent. The idea is to create a human, opening or draw the opening into responding or draw the opponent into responding so that you may anticipate and counter with a prepared attack in order for faints to be successful they must make the opponent believe that a punch is a real thing coming so we've talked about that before you can't you can't do a weak attempt at a submission as well with Andy last night sure we've been having we've been having some wars lately and last and last night he and it's funny and this is there's a whole there's a whole thing going on because psychologically right if there's a timer I'm paying attention to it right psychologically and like I know how much time I can survive in certain situations so I might take a risk yeah that I know hey if I end up and I'll take

this risk right now there's there's there's a minute and 18 seconds left I'm gonna take a risk The risk is going to take me 18 seconds if I make it great if I if if the risk pays off great Right be in a good spot. Yeah, yeah if the risk doesn't pay off well then I've got it's gonna take him ten seconds to get now Got 50 seconds I know how long it's gonna take the sets and the timer's gonna go. We're gonna be okay I'll run that one Last night it was close Close close

I played the game or just took a risk didn't pay off and we were going off and and Yeah, we were going they took the risk didn't pay off ended up in a bad situation Sure and and he was straightening out my arm And and I got out of the arm lock and he slapped a triangle on me and I'm hard to triangle too because I'm just like large right? Yeah, yeah He slapped a triangle on me if you do get the triangle on me. It's going to be pretty deep now it's yeah, and I was like I literally that was thinking myself he he's he's slapped a triangle on me. I'm gonna be pretty deep now it's yeah, yeah, and I was like I was thinking myself he's he he's He doesn't have time to finish this. He does not, like, even, like, I don't even have to defend this right now

because he doesn't have time to finish this. So he slapped it on there. I didn't even defend. And then I was like, oh, no. This thing is tight, tight. And then the bell rang. And he laughed, because it's not, it happens all the time. Yeah.

You know. Yeah, that timer thing is like, that's a real thing. You can almost physically feel the time. Yeah, if it's, but here's the thing is, if there's no timer, if we don't have a clock running, my game is different. Yeah. I don't, I won't take. that risk I'm super patient super just I you know Sarge used to joke about it

Sarge will be like oh Jockel is gonna hang on to your arm and work that arm with not moving for like seven minutes yeah he's gonna say he's hanging out this all good with me I'm over here just I'm just I'm just cruising I got your arm I'm not letting go of it that's not happening yeah let sit here I know that you have a little bit you're using some strength you're using a little bit to just maintain yep I'm gonna let that happen yeah I'm gonna let you cook You're gonna cook me a little bit. But you see, you can't cook stuff in five minutes, right?

No. You know, it's hard to cook something in five minutes. Yeah, it's true. Well, yeah, that is true, generally speaking. That time, like, you know, it's a different, the difference between, you know, like, some roles you'll go against the wall or something. You know, you just, and you go against the wall. And then sometimes you're like, hey, we're by the wall, you know, all in the corner or whatever. So let's go to the middle.

Or sometimes, you know, depending on who you roll with, what the tempo, what the mood is. You just, no, walls fair. All good. The wall's part of the game. So that's what the timer kind of is too, you know? Or that's what it feels like you can almost feel it where it's like, okay, when the time goes off, the time is game. This is all part of the game now, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But if there's no time, it's kind of like it doesn't have that. So you can have a time. I have more fun rolling with Andy when we have the timer because that means every three minutes I'm taking a risk. Yeah. And I'm trying to make something happen. Or if he's in a dominant position, which he, you know,

he gets in really dominant positions. and he's really good at maintaining him and he tries to get it done in that time you know Otherwise he'd be cooking me for a long time. I guess yeah, which would not be fun no so I could see how that could be All right next section stratagems for opportunistic situations Create something from nothing make somebody believe there was something when there was in fact nothing or simply put lie One method of using this strategy is to create an illusion of something's existence when in fact it does not exist and others to create an illusion that something does not exist when it in fact does Pretty obvious. You know, it's a good thing to think about it like even if you're of the attitude that you don't want a lie It's good to know these strategies that other people can use them on you

Yeah fully and the lie. I mean that seems like a conceptual lie like you know the guy who gets fired up puts it puts on this huge display isn't that sort of a lie you know yeah like i'm being ferocious and crazy and then it's kind of usually just to cover up something else yeah that's true or if you get like if you're what if at this moment in time sam harris and jordan peterson just dropped in here and started having a discussion about what was the line what was well i'm sure that would just take this whole thing yeah to another just to a different place well i'm sure the first thing they would do is determine what is considered a lie. Like, where is the, because conceptually, it's like any, any deception, really.

Yeah, yeah, that's true. So, like, look, if me and you are in a, I don't know, MMA fight or something and my ankle is straight up sprained, I'm not going to show it, you know? Like, my natural inclination is, like, to limp on that thing, but I'm going to go out of my way to just show that I'm not, you know, it's no factor. Is that a lie?

Yeah. Yeah. It is, right? It's deception. Deception, yeah. Yeah, I'm in fact injured. I bet there, I bet we're going to get people that are like, no, a lie is technically, no, there's probably some technical definition that puts it beyond just a deception. Yeah.

That's my guess. I don't have a dictionaire. I think it's intentional deception. It's weird because here's the deal. We know what a lie is. Yeah. We know what a lie is. We know what it is.

We know what is the line. What is it? I don't know, man. There's that gray area. I'm telling you there's that gray area. Check. It's small. But yeah.

All right. We will not have a discussion about that day further Next openly repair the gallery roads But sneak through the passage of Chen Kang Deceive the enemy with an obvious approach That will take a very long time While surprising him by taking a shortcut And sneaking upon him

The just classic fundamental strategy Next I like this one Watch the fires burning across the river Delay the delay entering the field of battle until all the players have become exhausted fighting amongst themselves At that point go in at full strength and pick up the pieces When this is exactly remember that the person that just asked on the last podcast about How to stop getting interrupted This is what we're talking about do that right there let other people like have their conversation and fire their ammunition and then

When they're done fighting amongst themselves and they're exhausted going at full strength and pick up the pieces When a serious conflict breaks out within the enemy alliance, all you have to do is be patient and wait quietly for the chaos to build up because once this internal conflict intensifies, then self-destruction will be the outcome besides the patient, besides being patient, make preparations for any advantage that might come out of the chaos. So sometimes you just got to sit across the river and watch the fires burn for a little while. That's interesting because that's exactly what that is. That's exactly what that is.

Yeah. And because you're compelled to interrupt back, you know, and all this stuff. But, yeah, man, it's good. Just sit back and listen. Let the fires burn. Let the fires burn. Number 10. Hide a knife behind a smile.

Charm and ingratiate yourself with your enemy. And then when you have gained his trust, move against him in secret. Sun Tzu's most often quoted advice was to keep your friends close and your enemies closer but here the stratagem is far more duplicitous in that it advises that the sole purpose of keeping your enemy close is not just to understand them and be prepared for any aggression from them but is to deceive them with a treasonable act that would see their downfall hide behind a knife with a smile so I was having a conversation with a guy the other day and the question

is if you've run something up the chain of command to the absolute top you can't bring it up anymore and actually this was a person in the fire services if you've brought something so fire departments if you've brought something up the chain of command to the absolute top and you still haven't gotten what you wanted what would you do then they were asking me and I was like well there's a lot of things you could do then in that situation you know you've gone like because The topic was basically if training should be harder, right? If people aren't training harder and I'm bringing up the chain of command and people say, no, it's fine, no, it's fine, no, it's fine.

And you believe that this is wrong and people should be training hard so we're more prepared to do our job. What would you do then? Jocko? And I was like, well, you know what you could do. You could say, okay, you know what? You don't want to listen to me? Fine. I'm going public.

I'm going to write an article in the newspaper about how our department is not. prepared to handle emergencies that's what I'm gonna do okay and then they're gonna listen now let's think about that let's think about that outcome right the outcome is there's a decent chance you get fired yeah you definitely aren't getting promoted you and and so whether you get fired you don't get promoted you get stuck in this position where you have no influence and by the way did you get any training change no now could there is there a possibility that the public takes note and goes, oh, wow, this is wrong, and we're going to have another election and we're

going to replace this fire chief or whatever. Is there a chance that could happen? There's a chance. How'd that fire chief end up in that position? He's a political guy. He knows how to make things happen. He knows how to take care of himself. And if you think he's going to let some little article out in a newspaper get him deposed from his position, you're wrong. You're underestimating your enemy at this point. So don't do that. So I said, What if instead of doing that? You wrote, let's say same idea, you wrote a positive article about the fire department

and it made everyone look good and the chief looked at you like you were spreading the good word. And he says, oh, you know what? I appreciate you putting out that article. That was really good. It made us look good. He might not say that part, but he said, I liked your article.

Well, you know, Chief, I just wanna let people know what we're doing over here. And now you're building trust. Now you're building trust with him. And now he says, oh, you know what? You know what, you should run this thing over here. Once you run that little thing and you take that thing and you run it. You keep it in the box that you know he would like it in and he goes, hey, you know, you did a good job with that.

I'm going to get you up a little bit higher. And eventually you get to a position of influence where you actually can make the change that you want to make. Now again, the thing is when I say things like this, people are always, they don't want to hear it. Like when someone, they think they know me and they're like, oh, you know what? And I'm saying this the other day at a different company that everybody wants me to say, you know what you go to? Do in a situation like that you come in with a battle action and you start swinging and you take out everyone that's in your way That's how you win and I wish that that was true, but it's actually not true. It's not true You don't win when you do that. You have to think you have to play the game. What you have to do is

Hide a knife behind a smile now That's that's very treasonous he calls it but if your goal if your goal let's take the fire department if you're a goal if you're going Your goal is to actually do a better job and and save more people's lives because you've trained more and that's the knife that you're trying to get out in the end is that a bad thing? No, it's actually a good thing you're not hiding a knife behind a smile You're hiding save lives behind a smile. That's what you're doing This takes tactical patience Tactical patience That's a word people used to throw around because they thought it sounded cool it does it does uncle right? It does uncle, right? It's a real thing though And if you don't have

tactical patience to play the to win the long war it's a long war years it can take years this situation that they're talking this fire guy the other situation could take years to to unfold years but and we've talked about if you just make a stink and cause problems and run up the run your mouth and cause all this all this focus and bring the spotlight to the bad areas guess what you're not even gonna get You're not going to get moved up and put in a better position. Yeah. So don't do that.

Yeah. So crazy. That's like a lot of times the advice you give is literally the exact opposite of what it feels like we should do. It's like you feel like, hey, I need to do this. I just need to know how. Can you tell me how? And you don't tell how.

You say, hey, wait, you need to do this. No, you don't need to do that. You need to do the exact opposite of that. You're like, oh, man. It's not what you think and you're supposed to do. You jam me up. But I will say, it's. Through experience that your answers tend to be right 100% of the time

Yeah people a lot of times you don't want to hear man when I was younger I didn't want to hear me either Yes that part is true yeah for sure when I was young was I go you know screw that guy Yeah what I'm gonna do a cultivate a relationship with this this guy yeah he's weak No he's unsat you know there's a there's a military term unsat yeah yeah and I used to that used to be my That used to be that used to be as bad as that was the worst adjective I I could use yeah I'd be like that guy's unsat or you know whatever a piece of gear people like oh how's that gear unsat yeah because you'd get marked like on an inspection unsatat which meant unsatisfactor right I need to bring that back yeah I

man it's been a while but yeah German cake nuts you so always say that sat or unsat because you could have sat too you'd be like that was if you were to say to me like oh how was that dinner last night sat meaning it was it was it was you know yeah it was good it was fun they never said that they never said that it was that it was that Was it unsat you you have to put sat and unsat kind of together for sat to make any sense whatsoever Naturally check all right number 11 preserve the plum tree Or sorry sacrifice the plum tree to preserve the peach tree There are circumstances in which you must sacrifice short term objectives in order to gain the desired long-term goal

This is the scapegoat stratagem whereby someone else suffers the consequences of And so the rest do not pretty pretty straightforward that one I think some of these strategies that are straightforward what's good about hearing them is that you recognize them yeah because it might seem obvious but then you when you're doing it you do you're like well I don't know we could you say oh wait you know what we're actually doing we're we're sacrificing the plum tree to spare the peach tree that's what we're gonna do right now once you commit to that or you understand it fully then you can execute it with more authority yeah especially in the in the

wild too because like if you have that that framework to stick to you know like oh this is what we're going to do kind of thing and all these other variables happen on actually you know on plan stuff but you're you have that to stick to it yeah it makes it way more clear that's the commander's intent the commander's intent is very clear and so we know what we're going to do that's what's going to happen number 12 take the opportunity to pill for a goat while carrying out your plans you need to be flexible enough to take advantage of any opportunity that presents itself however small and avail yourself of any profit however slight That's a good one I think it's I think it's important to keep in mind though that

You don't want to get pulled off track, right? You want to keep focused on your mission and all of a sudden you can be Running around gathering up goats while your real target escapes yeah, yeah, so let's not get too crazy with that one Well, but again let's keep it in mind next section stratagems for attacking situations number 13 Stomp the grass to scare the snake Do something unarmed but spectacular To provoke a response of the enemy

Thereby giving away his plans or position Or just taunt him Do something unusual, strange and unexpected As this will arouse the enemy's suspicion And disrupt his thinking This is recon by fire Just fire some rounds And maybe the enemy shoots back of you

Now you know where they are Next borrow a corpse to resurrect the soul take an institution a method or even an ideology that has been forgotten or discarded and appropriate it for your own purpose revive something from the past by giving it a new purpose or bring to life old ideas customs or traditions and reinterpret them for your to fit your purposes here's here's an example is like Hitler he brought back he would bring back like old Viking symbols and root that root the Viking tradition like hey you're a bike we're Vikings and they have like little symbols that's that's exactly what it is and use that so then people have a deeper connection yeah yeah with with this thing

Yeah Makes sense Next 15 entice the tiger To leave its mountain lair Never directly attack an opponent whose advantage is derived from its position Instead lower him away from his position Thus separating him from his source of strength The strategy is based on the idea that the tiger is powerful only when it's in its natural environment

But if removed from that environment becomes weaker and more vulnerable I don't know if a tiger's a word Weak in a not a good environment I think a tiger could still kill me pretty quickly even in a city street Maybe in the water he couldn't no that's not true Yeah, come into a person. No in Sri Lanka the tigers would swim like they would swim and pull fish get in the boats and pull fishermen to their death Yeah, how's that for a nightmare? That's rough

That's again pretty clear You know what this is in jiu jitsu? You get someone to play that not their game. Yeah. Oh, you got a good guard. Cool. I'm a pole guard on you. Or really why Jiu Jitsu is founded yet again.

It's you take a guy who's, you know, what's the traditional method of fighting? I'm a stand up with their punches and kicks at him. Yeah. So Jiu Jitsu is like, oh, you take him out of the punching and kicking situation. Yeah. To the ground. No punches, no kicks. And effective.

Boom. That's the Jujits. Yeah. You're not in your special place anymore. Sure. This is an interesting one. Number 16. In order to capture, one must let loose.

Cornered prey will often mount a final desperate attack. To prevent this, you let the enemy believe he still has a chance for freedom. His will to fight thus dampened by his desire to escape. When in the end, the freedom is proven a falsehood, and the enemy's morale will be defeated, and he will surrender without a fight. So we've heard that one. That's the golden bridge. We just heard it from Frederick the Great.

I think we also heard it from Vagedius. They're saying Give the people a little out They see that they see that chance to escape I remember I think it was Vagetius was saying they would just leave their weapons because they want to get away so bad They just leave their weapons and then you're just waiting for them Slaughter If an enemy has no way to retreat

Then desperation will increase their bravery and ferocity of their fight So you always offer them room for retreat and in such a retreat Their morale will be low next tossing out a brick to get a jade gem bait someone by making him believe he gained something or just make him react to it and obtain something valuable from him in return pretty straightforward the real meaning is to attempt is to attempt through the offering of something useless in order to gain something valuable it is a tactic that utilizes baiting the enemy the point of this tactic is to throw out bait the

does not seem like bait on the other hand it's important to have a keen sense of judgment to ensure you do not take the enemy's bait in return the ability to look past the immediate gain and see the long-term cost is a valuable skill so if you're in a leadership situation sometimes you hold the line you appear to hold the line on something and then you then you've let you let it go right like like you you want to do something a certain way and I'm like well echo I don't know it's something I don't care about yeah but I hold the line I'm gonna give you a nice victory with the end of it I already know that but yes I feel like yeah yeah you feel like oh yes yeah I was right yeah you're happy I made it happen yeah I was able to convince chocolate yeah yeah I didn't care I'm not gonna tell you that no I was like no you know what yeah seems like a good design for that t-shirt let's go with it next defeat the enemy by capturing their chief if the enemy's army is strong but it's but his but is allies

to the commander only by money superstition or threats then take aim at the leader If the commander falls the rest of the army will disperse or come over to your side if however they are allied to the leader through loyalty then beware the army can continue to fight on after his death out of vengeance That one's straightforward but that is something that's very important to recognize is is what kind of loyalty the people that you're going against to what kind of loyalty do they have? I I work with businesses all the time. There's businesses that establish a massively loyal employee base. And the people are there way, they are loyal.

They're not there for the money. The money is like part of it, but they're there because they want to be there. Those companies and somebody comes in and starts trying to mess with those companies, it's a bloodbath. It is a bloodbath. Okay, now that's the, now we're getting into stratagems when you are losing. So things change a little bit now we're on the losing side number one is stratagem stratagems for confused situations this is a good one remove the firewood from under the pot if something must be destroyed destroy the source the strength of the fire determines

whether the water will boil and the strength of the fire comes from the burning wood it may not be wise to confront the boiling water directly but by taking the wood from under a cooking pot the boiling water will soon be cool. In other words, do not confront your opponent's strong points, but instead remove the source of his strength. Yeah, I don't know that I necessarily agree with the last part there, not attacking the strong points. I think, I would say,

watch out for the volatile points, and you don't attack the things that can do you damage, like boiling water. You attack something that's a little bit detached, and you go after the source. I think what he's talking about is like, what they call it? It's like it's a problem solving method, if I'm not mistaken.

This two, there's direct and the systemic. Oh, yeah, for sure. Yes, you're correct. Yeah, so like you attack the source, you know, of these problems. It's like, you know, like your plant at home, right? You got a tree growing in the yard. The leaves are they're turning brown. You know, it's not even fall.

The leaves turning brown. You know what? Paint those leaves green. That's the worst. Yeah, exactly. That's attacking the boiling water. That's a direct, yeah, that's a direct problem solving approach. Or I always say water the leaves.

Don't water the leaves. You don't water the leaves. You water the roots. And then over time, that's a systemic approach. That's the one. Like how you roll. Deep. Sure.

Next. Number 20. Disturb the water and catch a fish. Create confusion and use this confusion to further your own goals. So originally it means to stir the water the sentiments in order to cloud the vision of the fish and therefore catch the fish Here it means to create confusion so that the enemy does not know what is real and what is not a confused enemy is more vulnerable to any attack I was I was wrong with Taylor the other day sure and we were doing take we were standing up you know we were getting after it and Taylor's if you know it those you that don't know Taylor's a beast he's like barely human he's a beast and he's a beast and he's a beast and he's

He wrestled and he does Jiu-Jitsu and he's just a sick Rappler and fighter. By the way, no one will fight him, which really makes me mad. He's like, he will fight anyone and no one will fight him. He just keeps destroying people. No one wants to fight him because you get nothing out of it because he's not, he isn't, his record is, I think he's 3 and 0 right now. So if you beat a 3-0 fighter, that means nothing. If you lose to a 3-0 fighter, that's not good for you. Yeah.

So no one smart is going to take a fight with him. I'm probably not helping by saying this right now. Yeah, no, anybody that's hearing this is like, okay, well, that's one person I'm not gonna fight My point in this was we were we were doing takedowns or we had gotten to a point we were doing take downs and He must have thrown 87 fakes at me in like three seconds where I was I had no idea what was happening It's like pop kai pop like over here. I'm so he definitely disturbed the water Yeah, yeah, caught the fish

that used to happen with Sarge too Sarge who's an awesome wrestler and and Jiu-Jitsu and if he hadn't been doing much wrestling he would he would I could read that he's gonna come because he's just got a sick blast double like Sarge's blast double is just sick

and and he just comes in full power and it's just hard to stop but if he hasn't been wrestling he really he knows he can just he just goes into like okay I'm gonna hit a blast double Like I'm tired of playing around and I hit a blast double. And so he gets that look on his face.

And I could read it because I've known him for 25 years. And he'd get the blast double look on his face. And I remember one time, you know, I must have sprawled on him like two or three times in a day. And it was kind of, I could see he was a little bit surprised that he wasn't, that he didn't take me down. And I was like, so I told him, I said, hey, you know, when you haven't wrestled for a while, you don't set it up. You just do it. And then we wrestled again and he'd set up again Just 47 little touches in my face

To pull my arm, I'm trying to get this here Push me there, drag this, slap here, boom, And all of a sudden, here comes the blast level Which I didn't know was coming. So that makes a big difference. Yeah Get them waters blurred up. All right

Sluff off the cicadas golden shell Cicada's like a cricket Or like a grasshopper Mm. This stratagem is mainly used to escape from an enemy of superior force. Mask yourself by either leaving your flamboyant traits behind, thus going incognito, or just masquerade yourself and create an illusion to fit your goals and distract others. So the grasshoppers and crickets at some point in their, what's it called a life cycle? Lifespan?

Life cycle? Sure. Yeah. They basically their skin, whatever it is, their shell. Yeah. They have to get rid of it. They molt. Yeah, a lot of bucks do that.

Yeah. Well, you can do that too. Yeah. You can leave some stuff behind and make people think that's still going on, but really, you're escaping. Yeah. When a cricket has grown to a certain stage, it sheds its outer shell and leaves the empty shell behind. This empty shell is often mistaken for a real cricket. Yeah.

It's kind of like on Total Recall. Remember Total Recall the movie Arnold Schwarzenegger? I do remember that, but I don't fully remember it. Yeah, so. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He comes in as that woman. Yeah, well, yes. Okay, oh, dang, yeah, there's that part too.

Yeah, the lady, yeah, two weeks, right? Then it malfunctions. Oh, yeah. He throws the head and it's an explosion. I was thinking more like the hologram. They always, they had this hologram thing where it's like, oh, you know, it's him. But it's just the hologram. Meanwhile, he's, I think, escaping or something like this.

I went and saw when I was in college, I had to go see a Shakespeare play, which was cool. I'm down with that. I would bring my Shakespeare play. Shakespeare book to the place. I had my notes when I was there. Okay. And it was funny because after the play was over, they went, they like brought out the cast

and was, you know, kind of introducing them with some details about their career. And the woman that played that woman, that head came apart and Arnold Schwarzenegger was inside her. Yeah, yeah. She was in the Shakespeare play. And here she was just getting off stage from crushing some Shakespeare and I think it was Richard the third and the

highlight that they pointed out of her whole career was that she was like the woman in the Arnold Schwarzenegger movie whose head came apart in total recall that was actually and then then it was in in the pamphlet that they give you when you go to the play yeah it was telling this guy did this and this guy was it has been in this and this guy was in the royal list and You know and then it's got her and it says she played the woman in a total recall. Yeah, but here's the thing about that like on paper literally on paper that doesn't that sounds like all this little thing But bro, that was a huge part of the movie. Let's face it two weeks How long are you gonna be on Mars two weeks? It's like whatever do you have any vegetables or something like that? And she goes two weeks

Oh, oh dang the thing starts malfunctioning boom boom they identify him. Yeah, man, it's a big part of the movie Bigger than Shakespeare. Arguably, yeah. No, they're not arguing. All right. This is one is a little bit of a contradiction. Listen to this one. Number 22, shut the door to catch the thief.

To capture the enemy, you must plan prudently if you want to succeed. Do not rush into action before you move in for the kill. First, cut off your enemy's escape routes and cut off any routes through which outside help can reach them. So that is the opposite of having... a golden bridge having an escape route that your people can get out of so you got a you got a note does that mean that they're both invalid no actually to mean it means they're both valid yeah but you need to recognize because for instance let's say you're in a situation where you surround the enemy and all of a sudden they start fighting really hard because you're like yeah yeah i'm gonna fall 22

i'm gonna surround everyone they're gonna keep them locked in there you do that and they start fighting really hard and you're losing a lot of guys then you know hey open up a little spot for him to escape yeah and let him run away and we'll be waiting for him over here Yeah. So just because things are opposites, do not, does not mean they negate each other. Yeah. It's one of those deals where, you know, it's circumstantial.

Right. Like in jiu-jitsu. It's like, oh, yeah. Does this scenario, you know, going against this guy, does this, should I use strength and power and should I hustle a lot? Will that strategy work with this guy? Or is it like, okay, I should play more passive

or something like that? Yeah, no, that's true. And actually to get even more, tactical in Jiu-jitsu you could you could let's say you mount someone and they start just getting crazy because they don't want to they're good getting completely nuts and you're trying to choke him trying to choke because you got every and they're getting nuts and you can't do it if you open a little spot from where they think they can sneak out but you're waiting for them there with the arm lock yeah yeah get the w

yeah actually yeah that is really how it kind of works where yeah when you get mount you on a whole position I mean, as far as traditional jiu-jitsu, for lack of better term, you get mount, you want to hold the position, right? You don't want to lose position, you get flipped over. But if you can hold the mount, good. But if he's big, strong, he starts, you know,

that last desperation attempt, boom, you got to kind of let him, hopefully it turns over. Really, that's usually what they do if they don't have experience. And then, boom, so you essentially give up the mount, but it is kind of position. Like, if you talk about a big strong guy, that's you're more experienced,

even just, you could prevent, them from pushing you up and away right you could lock that door down where there's no escape Or you could let him do it a little bit right in that little thing and then boom yeah arm lock just whatever is better for the that situation sure next Befriend a distant state while attacking a neighbor It is known that nations that border each other become enemies while nations separated by distance Next number 23 befriend a distant state while attacking a neighbor It is known that nations that border each other become enemies while nations separated by distance and obstacles make better allies

When you are the strongest in one field your greatest threat is from the second strongest in your field not the strongest From another field That's a that's a good thing to think about That's a good thing to think about when you're the strongest in one field your greatest threat threat is from the strong a second strongest in your field that makes sense see that business all the time right the the the the company that makes pizzas isn't worried about the company that makes cars yeah that's true right they're worried about the other companies that make pizzas you know next 24 obtain safe passage to conquer the state of geo

geo is a state borrow the resources of an ally to attack a common enemy Once the enemy is defeated, use those resources to turn on the ally that lent you them in the first place. That's underhanded situation right there. It's an underhanded situation right there. Isn't it? Yeah, it's bad. Be careful with that one. But you can see, now it's something you got to watch out for.

Well, if that's your enemy to begin with, I'm assuming. Yeah, if it's your enemy to begin with. But if how much of your enemy is gonna help you and now they help you and then you just turn and stab them in the back Be careful about that I think that's the definition of backstabby Yeah. Yeah, that might be the death that is the actual definition All right next one stratagems for deception situations Number 25 replace the beams with rotten timbers Disrupt the enemy's formations interfere with their methods of operations change the rules which they are used

used to following and go contrary to their standard training that's all really good stuff in this way you remove the supporting pillar the common link that makes a group of men and effective fighting force this goes back to what you just said I mean it's clearly go away from what they're used to right that's what we do that's what jiu jitsu is supposed to be everyone's going to like you said they're going to stand and try and punch you we're not going to do that we're going to take them down to the ground next 26 point at the mulberry tree while cursing the locust tree to discipline control or warn others whose status position or status or position excludes them from direct conversation or confrontation use analogy and innuendo when names are not used directly those accused cannot retaliate without revealing their complicity

all that's sneaky You know that's like when you're in the meeting And there's the person up the chain of command They haven't been showing up on time And you start saying you know we got people You know Bill hasn't been on time And you're really talking about them I have to use this sometimes

Have to use this sometimes Because we will go work with companies And the company let's say Let's say the CEO brings us into the company Sometimes we figure out that the CEO is the one That's the root of the problem. And one of the reasons that they're the root of the problem is because they don't think they need to change anything. And so they bring us in to change everyone else.

Guess who needs change? The big man. The big man, the reason that they don't want to change is because they got the ego that prevents them from listening. So to go in and directly confront them on what they need to change is not going to be effective. So to go in and give I've given I've given a whole presentation I did this one time where I gave a whole presentation Maybe I've done it more times, but there's one time that I specifically remember I gave a whole presentation To you know the 15 people the senior executive leadership of a company The entire presentation was directed at one person the CEO

And I was going it was about ego. It was about you know keeping that in check and how you don't know everything and how you got to let your listen to your subordinates and all those things. He wasn't doing any of those things. Yeah, yeah. So. Isn't there like a basic tactic that I think people do all the time with instead of, you know, like I'm the boss and I'm holding a company meeting or whatever. And, and, you know, let's say there's one guy who always shows up late to work.

I don't know. And in the meeting, he'll be like, hey, guys, we got to show up on time. It's very important. But just the very, the use of the word we rather than pointing at one guy, you know, we got to show up at time. We got to do this. It's kind of like the person who he's talking about, kind of like he feels.

Yeah, that's a good way to start. There's some people that even, they're not part of that we. And so sometimes you have to escalate that into you. Yeah, but that defeats the purpose of that. That does defeat the purpose of that. You can, if this stratagem doesn't work, you might have to escalate into something a little bit more direct,

you know, break out the battle ax. Yeah. That's always the last option. Just to make sure everyone wants to break out the battle axe. That's what everybody wants to do. So next 27 Fain madness, but keep your balance hide behind the mask of a fool a drunk or a madman to create confusion about your intentions and motivations lure your opponent into underestimating your ability until overconfident he drops his guard Then you may attack yeah is that like the movie white men can't jump you ever see that

So he did it Woody Oh he made it like he couldn't play ball Yeah like he was just this dork What do you call a chump Whatever that's what they'd call him Yeah Chump like he's super dorky he goes

And everyone else is just so cool and boom flashy And all the stuff he comes in He's super nerdy And you know boom of course they pick him You know kind of thing And then he beats him Would he beat them with flashiness Or would he beat them with

With traditional Let's call it just Who's your style hardworking basketball. Well, no, he had legitimate skill. He was like this. So yeah, he'd come in. He'd be super dorky.

And then, at first he tricked them. So he came in the introduction to him. He was like acting all dorky. And then the guy's Wesley Snipes in them. They're all playing basketball and they're, you know, getting into little arguments or whatever. One guy gets hurt or his bunyan. I don't know, something.

And they're like, hey, we need another guy. And then the guy's like, you know, let's, you know, get him or whatever. So they're like ha ha ha you know yeah you got him whatever they play He ends up to be pretty good doesn't show a lot but he's like pretty solid and then they're like hey you guys lucked out you had this you know dorky guy you guys kind of lucked out and he's like oh yeah, you know maybe you did luck out or maybe I'm just better than you. I'm better than you. He's like all right well it's bet kind of thing they're already convinced It's a pool shark situation. Yeah, yeah exactly right same exactly Yeah, yeah that's Pretty obvious one and I think I think one thing that again to take away from this is if you know these things You're less likely to be

suckered in by them. Yeah, that's that's the most important thing. Yeah, that you say the pool shark thing I saw a guy who really clumsily tried to do that He'd come I worked in that club. We had a pool table in there and this guy came in and he like acts like he's like he comes in just a normal guy He comes in with his own cue by the way his own pool stick which is an indicator yeah like total giveaway and he comes in and then immediately one like he kind of enters the little scene you know the little area where he acts like he's just kind of drunk and just real oblivious you know he just total just switches to a different guy and here's the

thing we you can't let drunk people walk around in the bar so you know when waitresses or other or the manager would come by they'd like hey that guy's too drunk like why are you kind of like keep an eye on him and I'm like brain's not drunk he's like acting drunk so I go talk to him just to sort of make sure and he's just like all normal talking to me I'm like but yeah he tried no one I mean it wasn't like no one to get money from he he wouldn't get money from anyone well here's a thing no because it was like a night club it wasn't a competitive pool hall no one cared no I'm gonna take his no one's even gonna bet they're like bro we're just cruising like why are you you know wanting to bet kind of

I'm not saying that happened, but I'm saying that's the attitude. I guess in this day and age, you'd have to be pretty dumb to fall for this in a pool hall scenario. I'll just beat this guy. You got to really think you can beat him, right? Otherwise, you just be dumb. All right, next. Remove the ladder when the enemy has ascended to the roof. This is another one that kind of is a little bit contradictory.

With baits and deceptions, lure your enemy into treacherous terrain, then cut off his lines of communication and avenue of escape. To save himself, he must fight both your own forces and the elements of nature. Okay, I see what makes it a little bit different. It's the elements of nature part. Because otherwise, we're just doing something that we talked about wasn't good, which is, don't give them any escape.

Then they're gonna fight really hard. But if you put them in a situation where they gotta fight both the elements of nature and you, that makes sense. 29. Deck the tree with false blossoms. Tying silk blossoms on a dead tree gives the illusion that the tree is healthy through the use of

Artifice and disguise make something of no value appear valuable of no threat appear dangerous of no use appear useful Pretty straightforward new does a lot of that Stilts you roll with stilts He like bates He puts his arms he's super flexible. Yes, and he'll put his arm way over there and it'll be all obvious I've I've tried to tell him stilts when you hear this if you backed off and your your exposure a little bit it'd be more believable yeah right doesn't smell real it doesn't smell real he's he like taps the ground with his arm he sticks it all out

there like and he bends it enough so it's almost in a perfect Camera like all I got do is go for this but he's so flexible if you go for it he's gonna off balance he's gonna put his hooks in yeah because he's six foot something like six foot six you're and super flexible you ever think with him I don't know if this is the case or not but ever think because I think this every once in a while where he's overdoing it because he's trying you know it's like a like a charing right he that might be part of it yeah you know he's overdoing that so much so that you don't do it because and actually actually you're right we've had that conversation he's told me before

that sometimes he would stick something out because he knew I had it so good that if you just try to make it look so obvious I wouldn't go for it he was right he was actually correct there's a lot of times when I see him do something I I'm suspect with everything he does yeah everything he does I'm suspect yep any 200 like you think you're gonna pass guard he's gonna he's got some little scam go yeah he's trying to trick you yep so be careful number 30 some scam scam scam gonna stab you in the back make the host and the guest exchange roles usurp leadership in a situation where you are normally subordinate infiltrate your target initially pretend to be a guest to be accepted but develop from inside and become the owner later.

I like that. Well, that's the same thing I already talked about with the fire department scenario. Because that method is a lot better than the method of battle axe. Because you don't even make it through the front door if you're holding an axe, right? They don't want you in there.

Yeah, actually the more I kind of listen to you, kind of, is the battle axe approach, really, most of the time all that does is like create another war. For sure. Like you just basically took one war and made another war in there. Now you got two major wars, by the way. That seems to be the result.

You know, just to give everyone a little bit of relief, where the battle acts is appropriate, 100% appropriate, is with yourself and your own life. You know what I mean? That's the difference. That doesn't give anybody relief. Yeah, it does. Because you can use that. You want to use it.

You want to use it. But you got to use it on yourself. Not on yourself. Oh, you're saying people don't want to use it. We want to use it on others. How do you want to use it on yourself? How do you get to fix yourself? You fix it?

All right. Well, listen. I mean, well... You get that weakness. I know, bro. But see, that's the exact thing I'm talking about with you. Because the strange thing is that the other methodology doesn't work with yourself. If you're like negotiating with yourself, you know what?

I'm not really that weak. I'm going to play the long game with myself. Yeah, you know what? I thought it's just one donut. It's not that big of a deal. I mean, really, it's just one donut. Don't do that. Battleax.

Yeah, see. So that, yet again, goes along with your whole thing where bro I don't want to hear that when I say I want to bring out the battle axe right chuckle right you want it to be for everyone else yeah the other guy that got causing the problems for me but that's not the way it works I know you only can use the battle axe on yourself that's where you use it and when you do that what you do is you do solve the problem it's the actual so it's interesting there's a dichotomy here I tell people with with everything

Everyone else don't use the battle axe. That's where they want to use the battle axe. They don't want to use the battle axe on themselves. That's where I tell them to use the battle axe. Yeah. It's a strange world. So unfair. If you can figure that right there out.

Life gets a lot easier. Yeah. Well, it gets harder at first, but it ends up easier. Yeah. It's so 1,000 million percent. Can something be a thousand million percent? Not really actually. But if it could, this would be one of those things.

Yeah. Because it's yet again one of your things where it's like, hey, Jocco, I'm trying to do this. I need to do this tell me the best way to do it and your and your answer isn't okay this is how you do this better It's hey you don't want to do that you want to do this. Oh by the way that's the exact opposite of what you think you need to do That's your whole thing same exact thing with your battle axe analogy You're like I'm like hey I need to take a battle axe to my boss man. He just doesn't get it all this stuff and you're like oh yeah Oh no you don't you actually have to take the battle axe to yourself. That's your whole thing Yes, it is yeah

Because if you take the battle axe to your boss you're gonna get yeah yeah You create another war. You take it to yourself and you cut off the the hostility. You smash the the hostility that you have towards your boss. If you use the battle axe on that hostility and you start treating him with respect and trying to build a relationship, guess what? You're going to win. If you use the battle ox on him, he's going to break out a bigger battle axe and guess what?

He has one because he's the boss. You've got a much bigger battle axe. Yes, he does. And technically isn't that the whole watering the roots thing, you know? know the systemic problem solving start with yourself you know well that's that's definitely part of it yeah kind of it that's part of it in there next strategims for desperate situations number 31 the beauty trap send your enemy beautiful women to cause discord within his camp the strategy him can work on three levels

first the ruler becomes so enamored with the beauty that he neglects his duty and allows his vigilance to wane. Second, other males at court will begin to display aggressive behavior that inflames minor differences, hindering cooperation, and destroying morale. Third, other females at court, motivated by jealousy and envy,

begin to plot intrigues further exacerbating the situation. This is also known as the honey trap. The honey trap. Did they do that on Rambo? First Blood Part 2. he had that remember that cohort he had the check

he he had a girl a Vietnamese girl if I'm not mistaken and he meets her her name's Coe yeah so they go and they got to take down you know they gotta save the POWs and the girl disguises herself as I think

a Vietnamese prostitute if I'm not mistaken on a moped honey trap yeah so they're like oh neglecting their duties all this stuff boom they come in but to add to the whole scenario she's like actual warrior though though so it's like double-air you know she's getting after it getting totally getting after it check number 32 the empty fort strategy when the enemy is superior numbers in your situation is

such that you expect to be overrun at any moment then drop all pretense of military preparedness and act calmly so that the enemy will think you're setting an ambush this stratagem is to be used sparingly and only after one has first developed a reputation for military prowess. This also depends on having a clever opponent who in perceiving the trap may overthink his reaction. That one takes guts. But I guess it not only takes guts, but you might not have any other choice, right?

Like your chance is like, okay, we're just going to act like this is no big deal. Just going to act like this is no big deal. Who is telling me a story about that? Maybe it was you or maybe it was Jade. about being in Australia. Were you telling me about that? Was that Jade? Possibly.

What was the story? Oh, like. Oh, yeah, I was telling you, going in through the alley. Yeah, through the alley. I was telling you about Jade's story. Okay, yeah, yeah. Was that on the podcast that you did that? I don't think so.

But the point is, Jade had a choice. Act, like, okay, so he sees a situation could be hostile. And his choice was like, okay, I don't really even have a choice here. I can either act scared, in which case I'm going to, to become a victim. That's that's or I can act nonchalant and there's a possibility I don't become a victim because they see that I'm like whatever. Right.

And so that's what he did. And guess what? The guy was like, good a man. How are you? Oh, good. Yeah. Luckily he's in Australia. Next.

33. Let the enemy's own spy sow discord in the enemy camp. Undermine your enemy's ability to fight by secretly causing discord between him and his friends, allies, advisors. families commanders soldiers and population while he is preoccupied in settling internal disputes his ability to attack or defend is compromised some reason I have the word truth written here and I think the reason oh I this is what I have that this is why I have that there I was thinking to myself how do you do this and the

one of the best ways to sow discord amongst people is to tell them the truth about what's happening how so well you've got some Camp and you start you start saying hey look Say look how look how the boss is living Let's just pay attention to how the boss living I'm just telling you the truth the truth is the boss eating crab legs every night Yeah, you guess what you're eating chicken patties? I know So I was on the ship I think it was the I think it was the USS Cleveland and There was an underground newspaper on the ship but

There was basically leakers Mm-hmm that were telling the troops the sailors on the ship what they were eating in the wardroom where the officers were yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, that word started getting around We're eating chicken patties try eating chicken patties for 48 days straight You know what? Hey, that's a lot of chicken patties you're not you're not gonna want any more chicken patties No, but then you get worried that they're eating crab legs That was the big one I don't even like crab legs, but everyone else seemed to like crab legs

They were mad when they found out that's what the wardroom is even So what they did was just telling the truth cause discord just telling the truth yeah makes sense now of course you could weave in some lies right but just

exaggeration what I'm saying is oftentimes the truth is the most powerful weapon yeah to cause discord now I'll always tell you

that truth is the most powerful weapon definitely truth is the most powerful weapon that you have like just in general just in general just in general the truth is the most powerful weapon you have for yourself. You can be truthful yourself. You can be truthful with people around you.

Now, does this mean you tell the truth every single time? No, because sometimes the chicken is dry and you just need to keep that to yourself, right? That's a legit one. We talked about that before. But truth, truth is definitely

the most powerful tool that you have. And even when it comes to creating Discord, the best, let me put it to you this way. Let me just, I don't want to go through this whole tangent, but the best, if you're going to create Discord, It's more powerful to create discord using the truth than it is trying to create discord using lies because the lie can be unwound Yeah figured out the truth when they go well no that's not true and then you go oh wait that is true

That's a problem as a real problem 34 inflict injury on oneself to win the enemy's trust Pretending to be injured has two possible applications in the first the enemy is lulled into relaxing his guard since he no longer considers you an immediate threat and The second is a way of ingratiating yourself to your enemy by pretending the energy the injury was caused by a mutual enemy Build that little bit of trust remember when I talked about I when I talked about when you if you come to me and you're emotional You're all mad about something and I have to to tamper down the emotion, but I can't I have to show you some of the same emotion I reflect it but I diminish it a little bit Yeah, that's a way of building trust between us, right?

Well, it's the same thing. If I'm like, oh, look what, you come and look what they did to me. And I go, look what they did to me too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, that's the same thing. They wounded me too, look at this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm also mad at them.

We're a team now. Yeah, I do that with my daughter, by the way. What's up? When she had a hang nail. This is last night even, hangnail. And she didn't know what a hang nail is. I think it's our first hangnail. She's five.

Sad. It's sad. It's sad, because you got all those hang nails coming your way. Yeah, a very rich hangnail future. So I'm like, yeah, I say just little things. Yeah, that used to happen to me when I was little too. So it's kind of like, oh, we both kind of have that same scenario.

Same thing, bro. Dude, mutual hangnail hatred. You know, let's bring the team together. Unite against hangnails. I'm telling you, it's real. It's real. Hey, ma'am. I'm 100% on board.

Hangnails are real. I didn't know you had hangnails, man. I have them, too. Yeah, yeah. We're tight. A little bit of bond. 35. Chain stratagems.

In important matters, one should use several strategisms applied simultaneously after another as in a chain of stratagems. Keep different plans operating in an overall scheme. However, in this manner, if any one stratagem fails, then the chain breaks and the whole scheme fails. Now, I completely agree with the first part of this, which is, yeah, you should train these things together. Which is obviously what we do in jihits. You use one move and that's setting up another move which is setting up another move

And the defense that one sets up another move But I don't agree with the fact that if one of them breaks They all the whole thing falls apart that that shouldn't be necessarily true You should set up your stratage jims your stratagems that You expect that some of them are not are gonna fail a little bit and that's okay because that's why you got the backup ones right? Yeah Seems like it. Am I wrong? I don't think you're wrong no and chaining things together that's you have to Do that you have to hit from multiple angles and you have to have that's that the utal loop right that's okay. I'm gonna do this and then you're gonna react and I'm gonna do this I'm gonna be there and with the next one there with the next one there with the next one there with the next one having a head up on things makes such a big Difference in other words

Just so much of winning in Jiu jitsu is that I know what you're gonna do before you do it So much of winning in combat is I know what you're gonna do before you do it Setting these things up properly chaining them together so that the enemy doesn't know the opponent doesn't know the next thing in the chain but you do yeah yeah I think he that's powerful yeah I agree that it seems like you're looking at it like the the chain of stratagems is like a totem pole where it should be like a tree or like a web or something yes you can kind of go and this can break off and it can get back but yeah his one is like like a straight up like actual chain you know

yeah yeah one link breaks it's like oh yes but True. Last one, number 36. If all else fails, retreat. Important one. If it becomes obvious that your current course of action will lead to defeat, then retreat and regroup. When your side is losing, there are only three choices remaining.

Surrender, compromise, or escape. Surrender is complete defeat. We don't want that. Compromise is half defeat. Might be an okay outcome, especially when compared to the alternative, which is just surrender, which is total defeat.

But escape is not defeat. As long as you are not defeated, you will still have a chance. And I think that's a fitting end To this and again this is something that people get wrapped around all the time They don't want to give up they don't want to give up they don't want to give up in skydiving You have a malfunction if you have a malfunction you you you try and fix it for a little while At 2,000 feet I think it is was what I learned in the military

Free fall at 2,000 feet you make the decision I'm not gonna get that parachute open I'm gonna cut that one away and I'm gonna bring out my secondary But guys would You know in the parachute world And right now the parachutes are getting so good that it's it's a lot more rare But guys would get Target fixation on trying to fix the bad parachute that was up there And they'd look at it and look at it and look at it and try and fix it and try and fix it and try and fix it and try and fix it and then they did hit So

Sometimes you got a retreat It's okay It's okay Surrender is complete defeat compromise is half defeat but escape is not defeat and as long as you are not defeated you still have a chance so retreating is smart sometimes

it's okay and I think that's a good lesson it's okay to retreat but never never surrender and that's that book which definitely some good lessons in there learn some new ones

reinforce some other ones hoping that everyone out there listening, learned something from that too. And if you did, and you want to give the podcast some support, chiboha, then here's how you can do it. And support yourself, by the way. Actually, could be the more important thing. I think so, yes.

I think it's the more important thing. Yeah, man. Because, yeah, like on the plane, right? You know, the oxygen mask? Oxygen's coming down. Bro. You can't just start putting the mask on your kid. No.

What if you suffocate? Yep. Can't help nobody. So you can't help yourself first. You can't support what we're doing here if you're not on the path. Exactly, right. Yeah, exactly. That's the primary thing.

That's what we're talking about. So, to begin a good way. Let's start with origin. Fitting name for the way to begin the support. Get it? Origin, layers. In the industry, we call those layers. In origin, this is what origin is.

is a American-made company that delivers American-made products. Starting with geese, jujitsu geese, for jujitsu, not just generic geese with a name on it. Yeah, not that. No. Not generic geese. I'm telling you, that's something. These aren't the kind of geese where you'd be like, hey, you know what? I think I'm going to go down to the market right now.

I'm going to put on my ghee. You don't, if you're doing that, you maybe don't need an origin geese. You get whatever geese if you go down to the market. Yeah, yeah, yes. But if you're doing jiu-jitsu with your ghee, yeah, we recommend you go with the origin ghee, yeah, which is made in America, which is awesome. The cotton is grown in America. Yes, grown here. American hands. People are working. People are working in Maine. We're

bringing that back. So yeah, get those and rash cards as well. Yeah, woven, woven material here. Yeah, they kind of got everything. They got, you know, regular clothes as well. Joggers. sweatsuits I was having a discussion Which I'm not gonna go into But I will go into this part of the discussion I was in discussion with someone that was like Basically telling me like

Well you know This business This business is hard What we do is hard in this business They're trying to tell me that what they were doing In this business was hard I was like Hey it's not that hard

What you're doing And trust me what they're doing is not that hard Trust me there's some businesses I work with a lot of different businesses There's some complex businesses out there in the world, really complex. The business particular that I was talking to that was having this discussion with that was telling me how hard their business was, which what does that sound like to you?

When someone's like, oh, you know, it's really hard. That's an excuse. Of course, hey, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it, right? Yeah. So, you know, it's really hard. This business is really hard. And I was like, you want to talk about hard? I'm like, try getting an ancient loom up and running

and weaving material that hasn't been done in 40 years here in America. Weaving, there's eight million little threads going in this thing. Try sorting that out. Don't tell me your business is hard. Yeah, that seems hard. That's hard. But it's being done right here in America. Yeah, big good.

At origin. Yeah, really good stuff on there. Also, supplements. Jaco supplements. Okay, joint warfare, krill oil, and discipline and mulk so consider these four they all kind of play into each other

joint warfare obviously warfare against degeneration of joints not against your joints it's for the joints it's your joints wage war on degeneration anyway however you want to spin it nonetheless it's for your joints krill oil same thing omega-3s really good for general health as well

if you like protein supplements milk see what I did there I didn't call it protein powder that's good That's good. It's very understated too, which I'm down with you can understate it Yeah, because the bottom line is if you like delicious things in the world You're gonna like milk. Yeah, so milk is peanut or not peanut butter. It's gonna be peanut butter chocolate Yeah, and those are those are inbound. Yeah, someone sent me a picture Tweet I think it's on Twitter one hand chocolate milk

Jug other hand milk he said I'm gonna take it for the to the experiment remember I said mix the milk with chocolate milk see what up okay might be too chocolatey might be what was the deal what was I don't know he just said he's gonna do it he didn't report back yet not yet that's kind of just indicated he was commencing with the experiment that's kind of jacked up we will have mulk at the emerging camp jiu jitzu emerging camp August 26 through September second up in Maine on Echo Lake layers so come up and hang out with me with Leif with Echo with Dave Burke

still not 100% on JP but yeah we're gonna be up there in Maine doing jiu-jitsu and hanging out oh and Dean Lister oh yeah no big deal Dean Lister and Andy's going to it looks like Andy's going Andy Burke yeah Andy Burke's gonna be going so we'll be all just training and getting after it and hanging out here's the thing it doesn't sound as dealt when we're hanging out but here's the thing it is ultimately well yeah because you can only you can only do jiu jit-sue how many hours a day can you do jit-s well you know depends on who you are obviously

Call it eight. We'll call it eight. So eight and eight. So eight hours. Then you sleep for eight hours. Right. What does that leave you? Eight more so. Eight more hours.

You got to fill those eight hours of hanging out, man. That's eight hours of cruising. Can we cruising? Cruising? Is that a cruising scenario? Big time. Yeah, I'll be cruising. Big time if I'm not doing the jiu-shitz.

Actually, so I'll be halfway in jiu-out. You got the injury. Limited. Limited. Not too limited, but we'll just say limited. Anyway, yes. Yes, August 26 to September 2nd, is it? Yep.

Cool. Also, good way to support is go to jaco store.com. That's right. Jocko is a store. It's called Jocko store. Anyway, it's where you can get t-shirts, rash guards, hoodies, hats, you know, all these stuff products, we'll say that we put out, Discipline equals freedom shirts. What's the new one? What did I put on there that's new? Oh. Is there a new Discipline equals freedom shirt? Is that up yet? Yes. Oh, that's cool. It's not up yet. It will be up in a couple weeks. It'll be up in a couple, maybe even one week, so it could be up technically by the time.

So it's up. So it's up. It's up. All right, cool. The new shirt is up. Yeah, discipline, you go there, jocco store. But yeah, if you want to represent, go there, jocco store.com. Use the word represent.

I like that. Okay. Good, there it is. Boom. I think it's the new one is take the high ground or the high ground will take you. That's a fact. Something like that. Check.

If you actually have an email list right and don't really talk about this to offer it I didn't want it to be an annoying thing you know sometimes you go to website it'll pop up in your face and you can't like move forward sign up sign up sign up sign up yeah you know you know I try not to do that they actually use the word they want to capture capture you want to capture your email yeah technically yeah I don't want to capture we're so out of the game actually when you think about it well it's not in the game well I consider like you you just said like how, I mean, even your tone indicated

how you feel when a pop up with a form, you know, comes, it's kind of like when you, like, let's say you go on a first date with someone and they give you like a contract or something. It's kind of like, hey, sign this before we can take any steps forward with what we already plan we were doing, by the way. Anyway,

we do have an email like you can put your email and sign up for the email list if you want. And it's there. It's accessible. I think it's on the bottom. If I'm not on the other website, on the side anyway it's there it will not be a pop-up in here I'm ever and for ever no ever ever ever and furthermore if you sign up for that you won't get the

daily oh you know this and that and this and that and this every day because let's face it I signed up for I think it was Bud K it's called it's like knives and stuff they're just cool nice so I signed up for that one and every single day man I'm getting the thing I'm like cool the first day I'm like cool that's cool second day I'm like cool that's cool kind of the same thing as you sent me yesterday whatever daily man daily so that feeling I got I don't want other people to have that feeling about Jocco store so anyway you can sign up for the email list if you want and what I will send you every four months if ever I'll send you an email that says like okay if there's a new shirt that everyone was requite you know how like take the high road

or the hire rule to take you. Like people, so many people were emailing me saying, hey, we should do this one, do this, should do it. So it's kind of that, you know, it's like everyone's input. Okay, new shirt, boom, I'll email everybody. Okay, this is a new shirt. It's like that kind of stuff. And it's very rare.

Check. And you've got an input through it before, too. I remember one time you asked for colors. Right, right, yes. So, yeah, that kind of stuff. It won't be annoying stuff. Like, hey, three things that you don't care about. Click, you know, I won't do that stuff.

Ever, ever, ever. Check. Nonetheless, that's what's going on jocco store.com if you want to represent get some stuff Get some stuff good way to support also subscribe to the podcast of this podcast iTunes wherever Google play stitcher leave reviews and all that stuff and also if you didn't know we got the warrior kid podcast Which yeah you might not think that you would listen to it but if you got kids definitely they'll dig it and Good podcast to listen to Lately I've been telling stories from Uncle Jake,

from when Uncle Jake was a kid. Uncle Jake is sharing stories of his childhood that have little lessons in them. Big lessons. Yeah, even big lessons, but they're not, they're stories. Yep. And that's been kind of the direction, the last couple podcasts have had a story from Uncle Jake.

Story from Uncle Jake that we can all learn from. So that is the Warrior Kid podcast. I answer some questions from Warrior Kids. And then they're short too. They're like 20 minutes because kids should not be sitting around, listen to a four-hour podcast. We only do that because we got to like work to do, commute, all that stuff. Yeah, yeah.

Yard work. Yeah, it's good for the parents, actually really good for the parents and teachers, by the way. No, I've gotten great feedback from parents and teachers. Absolutely. Because it's like these questions, I mean, a lot of their questions, the Q&A, kids questions, you know. They send in and you answer them eloquently, I might add. Uncle Jake's pretty eloquent.

Yeah, I like to think so for sure. But, you know, in real life, these kids ask their parents these questions or the teacher, you know. And sometimes, you know, maybe the teacher on the spot, maybe it's busy or maybe they don't know or something like that. So, like, you know, I see it. I know that I do it for myself when I listen to it. I'm like, okay, boom. Because I've heard that question before. Yeah.

And these answers a little bit better than mine, you know. Check. Also, the YouTube channel. We got a YouTube channel. It's called Jocko Podcast. And that's where Echo puts the videos and the video excerpts and enhanced video excerpts. So you can check that out too, which is cool. And yeah, do that.

It's a good way to support for sure. Subscribe to you already said iTunes and stuff, Google Play. Yeah, so that's a good way to support. that seemingly in easy obvious thing but it is a good way of support legitimately check also on it dot com slash jaco by the way okay what is on it we all know what on it is but if you don't know it's where you can get the best fitness gear it's where you get all mine just i was going to get a bag oh like the sandbag things yeah i got one okay Yeah, yeah.

They're good. They're good. Yeah, like, so, you know, it was, I forget it was, if it was you're good for the big functional strike. Yeah, like, you know how, um. You know what I got to figure out though? Remember that bag that they had up in Maine, the 200 pound bag? I got to figure out what the deal is with that so I can rehearse. Actually, it's pretty simple.

Yeah. If you got to make a game time adjustment to do it, you'd be like, okay, this is hard. Do you have to press it? No. Just clean it. Yeah. Put it over your shoulder. You have the shoulder in.

Yeah, yeah, okay. So the thing is, and tell me if this is cheating. Okay, so to lay out the scenario, there's a 200 pound bag of gravel. So that's what it is. Yeah, 200 pounds, which is heavy. No handles. No handles, it's a sack of gravel. Not a canvas, like, made out of the ghee either.

It's like. Nylon. Yeah. So it's real flowy. 200 pounds, dead. You see dead weight, it's extra dead weight. Anyway. So and you got to just put it on your shoulder.

That's it. Pick it off, pick it up off the ground, put it in your shoulder. So tell me if this is cheating. So I did it and I succeeded. But I tried, not the first time. I tried it once and I was like, oh, and it falls down. I'm like, man. But Mike, one of the guys there, he said, hey, when you lift it up first, you got to keep the weight on the forward part.

Because even when you lift it up, it kind of divides the bag. kind of into because it flows you know the gravel kind of flows to the ends or whatever you got to divide it up but when you do divide it up you got to keep more the weight more on the on the on the front part not on the the part closer to you because it'll just flow down and it just doesn't work his his explanation way more short than that but so is that cheating so it's like all right I did it and then I and then it was easy no it's not easy okay so it's yeah it's hard like if you practice or something it'll be easy course I mean you're strong enough

to do it for sure but the technique there's some technique to get it up there yeah it's it's hard but nonetheless the my point was with the bag is you know how okay you know you lift a bunch of weights in this guy or me or whatever we can bench a lot squat a lot but then you know when you're doing like yard work and you got to I don't know shovel a bunch of dirt in a wheelbarrow and you're picking it up and you're trying to lift it up this little hill and you're like well it's like when you roll with guys at construction they have yeah they have legit strength that comes to the other side exactly right so I'm like man I'll buy one of these bags and just sort of like have it part of

the workout you know do some hills or something with it you know do it with a one man I don't know but anyway on it dot com slash there's a lot of cool stuff on there dices and kettlebells whatnot all kinds of good stuff uh psychological warfare album you can get on iTunes Google play mp3 we're working on the second one if you got something you want to me to address Psychologically let me know now and I'll start putting together a little list and we'll get it into your brain Psychologically yep and speaking of which speaking of psychological how's this for psychological right here? Hold on here. Here we go with this You know what that is that right there that's jocco white tea in a can you can get it you can get it at Amazon right now

It's available in Canada too and it tastes delicious It's fine. You want things that taste good. That's good. It's good for you. Replace the crap that you drink the energy drinks that you drink Get rid of them. Yeah, get this instead. You will absolutely feel better. You'll be more healthy and bonus. You'll be able to deadlift 100% guaranteed 8,000 pounds. So that right there is good enough While you're on Amazon as well. You can get some books We got the way of the warrior kid books just check them out just check them out. That's my statement. Check them out Out warrior kid books feedback's unbelievable kids getting after it once they read those books The discipline equals freedom field manual

How to get after it's a manual on how to get after it Yeah and kind of stay after it and stay after it. Yes Because if you get after it for a couple hours and then that's all the getting after you're doing Yeah, that's not gonna help you if you crack that book open though you'll see just crack it open If you want to listen to it you can get it as an Album with tracks iTunes Google play all that's not on audible Extreme ownership's the other book been out for a while Still people still buying it and it's about leadership it's about combat leadership in how to

Use combat leadership principles in your business in your life and Obviously in combat as well and then on top of that late from I have a new book that we are I keep saying that we just finished it I think it was timetion Ferris I heard say like oh he was writing a book and he was yeah I'm done with my book and one of his friends that was a writer was like okay cool you're 50% there and that's the truth when you get done writing it you're 50% there because there's a ton of work that you still have to do I finished us a round of edits yesterday and what's cool is reading the book I'm super stoked on the book and people are going to get a lot out of it it's called the dichotomy of leadership it comes out September 25th my publisher who listens to this podcast Who hears me say these things doesn't get it. They're not going to order enough books. They're like, well, you know, you never know. And we don't want to take too much risk. Order the book now so that you get a book when it comes out.

First a dish. You don't want second a dish, third a dish. That's lifetime evidence that you weren't in the game. Don't let it happen. And then when you meet me and you're like, hey, can you sign your book? Sign my book? And I was like, cool, yeah, I'll sign your second edition book. Sadness.

The first edition, I'll be like, We go back. We go back. So like the second edition, you'll just sort of sign your name and then with a line or something. But the first edition, you'll sign your name. And you're in the game

and you were to support that whole one and we're here. We're together. Oh, second edition. How you doing? Poser. Are you a poser if you get the second edition? No, man.

Well, anyways, all kidding aside. That's coming out, September 25th. If you want to get that dichotomy leadership, how to balance all those little things you got to balance as a leader that's what you got to do Speaking of leadership if you need leadership Training inside your organization echelon front Eschonfront.com we solve problems through leadership. It's me. It's Leif. J.P. Dave got Mike Sorrelli on board Oh, got Flynn Cochran on board

We're expanding we're growing Yeah, we're getting after it and we got the muffled The muster's coming up in October, San Francisco, 17th and 18th. All the other musters have sold out. I think we're dropping a video. Probably already, the video will be dropped. Yeah, it's already.

Yeah, I know, but it hasn't been circulated. Right. So we're going to circulate little... What do you call that? Advertisement video? Yeah, technically. Informational video? Informational.

Informational. It's more kind of like as if to say, it's a little to say is put it as accurately as possible it's to say hey look the countdown for this thing because we're all news coming it's number six there's number five before that over hey we knew it's coming hey the countdown to this event is official it's official we're counting the days down right now cool it's months but San Francisco October 17th and 18th all the other ones have sold out if you want to come better get registered extreme ownership.com and also we got the the

the roll call September 21st in Dallas Texas that is for uniform personnel police firefighters law enforcement military border patrol paramedics first responders all them we put that together so that we can get out there one day real quick leadership seminar for you all so same thing registered extreme ownership com com and get some and if you want to continue this conversation with us virtually until you see us live at the muster or you see us live at the roll call or you see us live in August at the immersion camp up in Maine then during the time where you're waiting to see us live guess what we can still kind of carry on this conversation virtually via the interwebs Twitter Instagram and the Facebook key echo I was at Echo Charles and I am at Jocka Willink and speaking of those in the military for those of you in the military that hold the line against evil and also to those that are in police and law enforcement firefighters paramedics border patrol first responders thanks to all of you for being ready to respond anytime any place thanks to your families as well for supporting you while you support us And everyone else out there, thanks for listening, thanks for supporting.

Thanks for fighting. Fighting to be smarter and stronger and faster and better. Thanks for putting forth the effort every second of every day. And thanks for remembering what the ancient spirit of Wu taught us. As long as you are not defeated, you still have a chance. so keep getting up and keep getting after it and until next time this is echo and jocco out