Jocko Podcast - 136: War and Madness. "He Was No Coward."

Episode Date: August 1, 2018

0:00:00 – Opening 0:16:54 - “He Was No Coward”, by Janet Booth and James White. 1:25:28 – Final Thoughts and Take-aways. 1:34:28 – Support. 2:09:59 – Closing Gratitude.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 136 with Echo Charles and me Jocco Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. Who are these? Why sit they hear in twilight? Wherefore rock they, purgatorial shadows drooping tongues from jaws that slob their relish, bearing teeth that leer like skull's teeth wicked. stroke on stroke of pain. What slow panic gouged these chasms round their fretted sockets

ever from their hair and through their hands, palms, misery swelters? Surely we have perished sleeping and walk in hell. He's hellish. These are men whose minds the dead have ravished. Memory Fingers in their hair of murders, multitudinous murders they once witnessed, wading slews of flesh, these helpless wander, treading blood from lungs that had loved laughter. Always they must see these things and hear them, batter of guns and shatter of flying muscles, carnage incomparable, and human squander rucked too thick. for these men's extrication. Therefore, still, their eyeballs shrink tormented back into their brains.

Because on their sense, sunlight seems a blood smear. Night comes blood black. Dawn breaks open like a wound that bleeds afresh. Thus, their heads wear this hilarious, hideous, awful falseness of set smiling corpses. Thus their hands are plucking at each other picking out rope counts of their scourging Snatching after us who smote them pawing us who dealt them war and madness That is a poem all the mental cases and it's a poem that was written by Wilfred Owen He wrote it in 1918 he was a British poet

but he was also a British soldier and he was wounded in the First World War he was blown up by a trench mortar and then he spent several days unconscious lying with the shredded remains of one of his fellow officers and with those wounds he was also diagnosed with shell shock and he was sent to a place called Craig Lockhart Hospital, which is where they sent these soldiers to be treated. And there he recovered to some extent, and then he went back to the front. And on October 1st in 1918,

he led a unit from the second Manchester's as they assaulted enemy positions in John Court. and he was awarded the military cross for that action on the 4th of November in 1918 seven days prior to November 11th which was the end of the war Wilford Owen was killed in action he was shot by a German machine gunner and that poem is obviously about the psychological damage that he saw when he was in Craig Lockhart recovering from shell shock and I've talked about World War I on this podcast before and I've talked

about the the shell shock and if you go to YouTube and you Google World War I shell shock and you watch some of the videos you can see the horror of the shell shock which reflects the horror of the war itself the trenches the wounds the gas the death the madness of the thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of deaths over and over and over again and that poem mental cases it reflects the nightmare of the shell shock inside the nightmare of this war and I wanted to hear a little bit about what shell shock looked like from the outside and I found an article called Shell Shock Revisited, an examination of the case records of the National Hospital in London

by Stephanie Lyndon and Edgar Jones. And they had some good excerpts coming directly from doctors, nurses, that worked in these wards. And here's one, this is a case from the case of a 27-year-old rifleman known as Frank D, who is diagnosed with functional tremor and neurosis like dark. Korea and if you don't know what that is it's a disease that gives dogs seizures and tremors and fits and if you again go to YouTube you can see these dogs suffering like that and this is the what the doctors wrote about Frank D patient is a territorial which is a reservist who served heavily in World War

one patient is the territorial and went out to France in January he has been quite well up to a week ago when on April 26 he was buried under a bomb explosion in the trench he was not unconscious but dazed and all in a tremble all his limbs were shaking he was conscious being carried by his comrades out of the trenches to a dugout a few hours afterwards he had to cry and he was crying for two days at the same time his arms began to twitch very frequently at first he was transferred to the 12th general hospital and from there to here another case another entry about a 23-year-old Scottish private known as Henry N Henry M from the 18th Cusars who is diagnosed with

functional facial spasm on May 13th and this is 1915 patient was struck by several pieces of shrapnel on the right hand forearm shoulder and on the right side of the nose at its base. He was very dazed, but did not lose consciousness. The wounds healed in a month. About a week after being wounded, he was operated on in order that a piece of shrapnel might be removed from his face.

On recovering from the anesthesia, he found himself unable to move the right side of his face or opened his mouth. This condition, which is quite painless, has persisted since, and he has not eaten solid food or been able to take out his false teeth. He has been fed through a rubber tube

inserted between his teeth in all other respects he feels well patient sits up in bed gasping in a highly alarming manner with his left face in a strong tonic spasm and his jaws tightly set all efforts to open his mouth are unavailing so strong as the contraction of his massators he declares himself unable to breathe unless sitting up and when made to lie down his neck is strongly retracted and set and he breathes violently through his clenched teeth and holds his breath for as long as he can assuming a purple tinge which is apt to be disconcerting until one is accustomed to it by the moral aid given by strong ferrodism which is an

electric current applied by the physician and force applied to the jaw it is it was possible to remove a filthy set of false teeth during this performance he uttered piercing shrieks and foamed and his rigidly held arms shook violently tears ran from his eyes and he sweated profusely from his muscular exertion in resisting the attentions well-intended though they were of the physician when asked to close his eyes he was able to do in fact the left eye is half closed in spasm all tests reveal good power in both sides of the face the facial and jaw spasm would seem to be voluntary and due to Frank malingering in the

intervals of this grotesque performance he lies back on the pillow without any dysponia but he induces an apparent difficulty in breathing at will examinations reveal no organic or injury in either nervous or other systems so just to recap they're they're stating that the facial and jaw spasms would seem to be from voluntary and from malingering, basically saying that he's doing this so that he can avoid the war. Here's another different type of symptom of shell shock. This is a 23-year-old private named Albert R. And it's reported that he had marked twitching of the face and the whole body at times trembles.

He looks ill and regurgitates wind. He complains of a peculiar feeling of worms growing in the lower part of the abdomen. He coughs considerably and said that his stomach swells up. A lump appears in his throat which chokes him. And he is continually expectorating. The nights are particularly hard on him. He sits up in bed and has great difficulty breathing. Cannot lie down properly, but lies over to one side, either left or right, puts his hand up to hold his head still from shaking.

He has a depressed and sullen look. there are involuntary movements characterized by a very fine tremor manifested when his hands are spread out and his fingers are separated there is a slight tremor in his legs of the same nature as appears in the other part of the body so those are some examples of this this horrible affliction of shell shock and as you noticed in some of these in that one right up in particular There was people that were saying, oh, they're just faking this. They could overcome this if they would be braver. Some people did recognize that this was a serious issue and that this was a new kind of wound in a new kind of war in November of 1914. So this is pretty early on.

November 1914, Lord Nutsford, chairman of the London Hospital House Committee, wrote an appeal that was published in London newspapers. And here's what he wrote. There are a certain number of our gallant soldiers for whom no proper provision is at present obtainable but is sorely needed. They are suffering from very severe mental and nervous shock due to exposure, excessive strain, and tension. They can be cured if only they receive proper attention from the physicians who have made a specialty of treating such conditions. These men are quite unsuitable patients for general hospitals as their chance of recovery. depends on absolute quiet and on the individual and prolonged attention of the physician if not cured These men will drift back to the world as wrecks and miserable wrecks for the rest of their lives

So there were some people that recognized this was a a factor that went well beyond the bravery of the individual But unfortunately that was probably less percentage of people most people Most people thought that these individuals that suffered this affliction of shell shock Thought that they were just they were they weren't brave and You know we've we've talked about it with a bunch of podcasts Dick Winters talks about it hackworth talks about it that there's a cup that gets filled and if it gets filled too much people can't take anymore It's not because they're not good people It's not because they they aren't brave or they weren't

Braves is that they're done they're done and there's ways you can treat him we've talked about it before you see a guy that's looks like he's gonna be done you need to get him rest and if they get rest they can recover if they don't get rest they just get continually put into it you're gonna burn that engine out you're gonna burn out their brain well they didn't quite understand that yet and again this type of warfare was totally new there wasn't this kind of just continual slaughter ever before And if it was, it was like an incident. Oh, there was a huge battle and there was a bunch of people killed it.

It wasn't like we're going to go do that again tomorrow. Well, guess what? These guys were going to go and do that same thing tomorrow and the next day and the next day and the day after that. So I want to talk about something that is as horrible as World War I was. This might be the most horrible part of World War I. And I know that's a bold statement. But I want to start by telling you the story of, one individual soldier his name was Harry far and I'm gonna go to a book about his life the book is called he was no coward

it was written by Janet Booth and James White and it tells the story of Harry Far the Harry Far story now it starts off by giving a little background on Harry Far and He grew up young man and it kind of starts off with him meeting who he would eventually marry a woman by the name of Gertrude and we'll go to the book Gertrude and Harry started walking out together They both loved visiting the Gady theater and many a happy evening was spent at the Hammersmith Empire watching the variety shows the pair soon became girlfriend and boyfriend and for the next four years they became inseparable but not without some bumps in the road at the age of 20 Harry was four years Gertrude's senior something her family was not happy about But what did she say? She said I love him. I'm going with him and that's that So they're young they're in love and Harry was earning good money working as a scaffolder on the building sites across London And it came as quite a shock in April 1913 when Gertrude realized she was pregnant

A child born out of wedlock would bring shame and disgrace on the immediate family. Owing to the pending arrival of the baby, they had to bring their wedding forward and were married as soon as possible. By the time of the wedding, they had been together for three years, and they were married in Kensington Registry Office in the summer of 1913. A baby who was to be their only child was born on October 29th of that year. They named her Gertrude Nelly, her middle named after Harry's sisterhood, who had emigrated. to America, but the new baby would be known affectionately as little Gertie. Now, prior to meeting Gertie, Harry had, well, I'll go to the book, Harry had chosen adventurous path in in 2008, so this is previous.

When he had just turned 18, he had decided to join the army. He enlisted as a regular soldier in the first battalion of the West Yorkshire Regiment, known as the Prince of Wales own little is known of his two years as a regular soldier but later records record show he was considered to be a reliable and trustworthy soldier with an exemplary record of good behavior now this happens in America as well when you're on active duty which is what he was those first two years when you get done with active duty they put you on some sort of reserve status there's I think It's called IRR and maybe it stands for immediate regular reserve.

I don't really remember. I was on it for some amount of time, but I don't remember. And it's basically when you're out, but they can recall you. And then you can say active reserve, which is when you're still getting paid. Maybe you should do some drills and whatnot. It sounds like he was in a combination. When he got out, he was in a combination of those two. We'll go to the book.

Most soldiers who had left the army were automatically placed in the Section B reserve. It meant that for five years they could be called upon in the event of general mobilization. and were paid three shillings and sixpence per week as a retainer, while also being obliged to undertake periodic training. So that's sort of like the reserves. I had to throw this in there in a pamphlet entitled a short history of the West Yorkshire Regiment. The excitable introduction to the unit nicknamed the Old and Bold claims no regiment in the British Army has a more glorious history than the West Yorkshire Regiment, the Prince of Wales-owned,

for its record and gallant and devoted service to king and country in many parts of the empire is equaled by few and surpassed by none. So proud history and can probably figure out where this is going. The war kicks off. World War I kicks off and he gets recalled to go and serve. Back to the book, he had previously served with the regiment's first battalion, but its soldiers were already in France when he returned to duty, so he joined the second battalion before his passage to France. Harry has granted a weekend past allowing him to return to London and spend

a precious last few days with his wife and young child. Gertie's first birthday was celebrated that weekend, and Gertrude promised to write her husband frequently, as well as sending him food and clothing parcels after what must have been an extremely difficult farewell. Harry returned to camp having slightly overstayed his pass, subsequently being forced to forfeit four days' pay. Like Harry, the majority of his fellow comrades had never boarded a boat before, let alone left England shores. Despite reasonably smooth crossing to France, many of the men suffered from seasickness.

Those not being sick were in good cheer and eager to face the enemy in battle, the general consensus of the men being that by Christmas this bloody war. We'll be over So it doesn't it turns around pretty quick even in the book that part turns around quick pretty quick and obviously I Skip some sections, but we get right into it On November 13th at 11 p.m. The West Yorkshire's relieved the Devon Regiment the very next day the soldiers came under fire for the first time and suffered their first casualties with three men wounded Indeed one account of the battalion's first taste of trench warfare described the soldiers Great discomfort in heavy mud

At times during this period the trenches occupied by the West Yorkshire regiment soldiers were two to six feet deep in water And cold mud baths were common so also was the inevitable accompaniment of sickness On November 19th the battalion lost its first man to sniper fire with another six wounded even when the men were resting in the barns and houses allocated behind to them behind the lines there was no respite from the shelling acting sergeant Walter Weston recorded the difficulty of fighting in the rapidly deteriorating conditions he wrote the continual rain where the whole terrain had turned into a quagmire of liquid mud making it difficult for the transport carrying supplies and weapons to continue along the muddy roads every so often they had to stop and push the vehicles over the

cloying mud even more harrowing was to try to pull comrades out of the mud many perished by slipping off the duck boards and disappearing into the slime the days spent in wet and muddy trenches left some soldiers incapacitated by trench foot and invariably resulted in many of the men having a foot or both feet amputated the pitiful sight of the horses and mules stuck in the rain sodden soil struggling to free themselves from the mud so yeah we think about trench foot You don't think your feet are uncomfortable or whatever. You don't think about having one or both of your feet amputated. December 18th, the West Yorkshire Regiment's colonel and captains were told that the second battalion Devin regiment would be attacking the German trench,

and two companies of Yorkshiremen would be sent in support to dig and make good any captured trenches. The official Battalion Diary records the Devon attack commenced from the left and was late in starting. the right company never advanced thus creating a block in the trenches the left company's attack was unsuccessful owing to the wire arrangements but the left center a company occupied 150 yards of the main German trench at midnight the entire second battalion of the West Yorkshire Regiment was ordered to take over the captured trench and improve it for defense while their comrades dug in alongside however at 8 a.m. the Germans responded with hand grenades thrown in

great quantities and very rapidly forcing the men occupying the trench to retreat to the British front line as a consequence of the sudden action the company of West Yorkshire soldiers attempting to dig on the right were left exposed and suffered withering on phallayed fire they also retreated and and the attack ended in failure and a battalion suffered two officers killed two wounded and a hundred and twenty other ranks killed or wounded almost all sustained in the retreat the new year and again I'm advancing through the book and to get the full details get the book and read it the new year of 1915 began as the old one finished for the Yorkshireman cold wet and in the trenches

January 6th one man was killed and a lieutenant was taken to the hospital despite the hostile nature of the enemy just a few hundred yards in front of them the battalion diary noted that the main cause of casualties was increasingly a result of sickness as well as via the ever-present water and mud disease and sickness was carried by living sources from the lice that infested every bit of clothing to the rats that feasted on the unburied dead paul fussel writes the stench of rotten flesh was over everything hardly replaced by Hardly repressed by the chloride of lime sprinkled on particularly offensive sites dead horses and dead men and parts of both were sometimes not buried for months and often simply became an element of parapets and trench walls You could smell the line miles before you could see it so if you've never smelled a dead body before it's it's an absolutely horrible horrible

horrible smell and when you think about the places where you're living are actually partially built from bodies and parts of bodies it's hard to even imagine what the stench was and how bad it was back to the book one man was killed and another wounded on January 12th on January 19th the trenches had dried out slightly and four men were injured in action on January 25th rifle fire was recorded as being heavier than usual but ultimately the expected attack never came though three men were killed in the course of the day the following day was off to the billets in La Flinque this time in the brigade reserve two men were killed and one wounded but a draft of 50 men arrived

on the last day of the month snow fell with water building in the trenches but the was quiet the whole month of January had been spent either in the trenches or in the nearby reserve with no time spent any distance away from the guns on February 4th the battalion relieved second battalion four men were killed and five were wounded on February 10th the battalion was back in the line losing one man and two wounded on February 11th March 6th five men were injured some severely when they hit they were hit by shrapnel in the morning two of the five died of their wounds later that day it's weird you think about this it's just pecking away it's just pecking away

day after day after day after day you know you got you got 250 guys or something in your company maybe 200 guys in your company and it's two here it's three there it's eight wounded there it's four wounded there and then you get you get drafts come in which is new fresh guys 50 of them coming in to replace the guys that you've lost officers were issued with a full set of orders on March 9th for the attack on Nouveau Chappelle March 10th at 730 a.m. the bombardment of enemy positions began with wire cutting shrapnel to aid any breakthroughs by the infantry the first shell to fall was fired by an impressive 15-inch howitzer and weighed an incredible 1,400 pounds however their

advance was blocked the battalion then with drew back to British trenches and held the line casualties had been severe as they had crossed as they had across the front on the murderous first day of the battle 23 members of the battalion were dead 51 men had been wounded three were missing but the savage fighting was to continue at 4 a.m the next day orders received to move 17 members of the regiment were killed outright 40 men and one officer were wounded Four men were missing. Shelling continued, inflicting heavy casualties on the severely depleted West Yorkshire men as they huddled in the trenches in cold and misty conditions. By this stage of the attack, the infantry soldiers were exhausted. Dead on their feet would have been an accurate description. The condition of the gallant fellows who had been fighting and marching to and from the trenches since the early hours of the 10th with practically no respite was now pitiable. Men fell asleep at every halt having to be roused by violent means among the ranks 14 men were killed 31 wounded six win is missing at 7 p.m. the soldiers moved off and occupied a line of trenches grimly the battalion diarist noted we found this trench unoccupied

and full of dead the deaths and injuries continued four were killed 28 wounded three went missing during the day November 5th general Haig who was to become the commander-in-chief of the British expeditionary force the following year wrote in his diary that why my one thought was how soon I could get my battle-worn troops relieved and given a few days rest out of the trenches and shell fire on July 30th 1915 he was even more explicit saying one lesson of this war was that troops could stand four days hard fighting and then must be relieved. So you take that right there.

You take four days. That's an average from this guy that's seen these folks on the front line. So that means there's people that are less than that. There's some people that are more. Some people can handle eight days, ten days. Some people can handle one day. Some people can't handle any. The average is four days.

And here are these guys on the line for 10, 20, 13, 17 days at a time. And there is times that I'm not mentioning where they're going back off the front line and they're getting a little bit of recovery. But then they're going right back in and it's not four days that they're going into it for they're going in for eight days for 12 days Back to the book there was a little action with two men killed and one wounded the battalion was relieved by the second battalion Lincoln Regiment and March to Billets just a mile away from the battleground The second battalion had lost more than a quarter of its strength Marching teeth dawned cold and wet and despite the battalion diarist noting that it was quiet

Three men were killed quiet day three men were killed April 6th the shell exploded in a company billet killing three and injuring 8 5 a.m. on May 9th the artillery bombardment of the enemy trenches began with the attack launched just 40 minutes later so here we are on another attacked on another attack during the shelling and small arms fire from the Germans there were three were killed 13 were wounded and three posted is missing and this results and the French attack on Vimy Ridge failed after a week costing the French a hundred thousand casualties

the British attack on Aubers Ridge which is what they were working on failed ignominiously so that's the life if you can call it that and here's where we start to hear a little bit about Harry by this time Harry had been withdrawn from the front line suffering from what was becoming known as shell shock he was taken off duty on May 9th However, rather than being viewed as a psychological condition, some doctors and researchers were viewing the symptoms more in line with a neurological disorder or the result of a concussion from shell blast. Treatment for the condition largely involved rest away from the front line and possibly

some talking therapies that we would now refer to as counseling. Some doctors utilized electric shock therapy and isolation therapy on sufferers, but both were unproven and experimental and there's a doctor Stevenson that says post-traumatic stress disorder this is looking back post-traumatic stress disorder was exacerbated by the special conditions of static warfare in which soldiers endured repeated bombardments in confined spaces with little control over their fate and live day by day in close proximity to their comrades decomposing remains so I've talked about this before we talked about it when Jordan was on with Jordan Peterson when you don't have any control when you're not on offense

it it's a lot harder to deal with psychologically and this is the ultimate defensive you're just gonna get bombed and there's nothing you can do about it and by the way you're gonna watch your friends and your comrades get wounded and killed every single day back to the book in the summer of 1915 Gertrude received a letter from France but she did not recognize the hand-wrecked on the envelope as Harry's. So his wife gets a letter. She doesn't recognize the handwriting.

The letter stated that Harry was ill and in the hospital. He had been evacuated from the hoop lanes area in May as he had been suffering from what was known as shell shock. Stricken by nervous exhaustion, his hands had been shaking too much to hold a pencil so a nurse at the hospital had ridden. the letter for him again uncontrollable shaking is what these guys are experiencing so bad he can't write his letter a letter to his wife after the

extended period behind the lines Harry was assessed and certified fit he was sent back to the West Yorkshire regiment this time joining the first battalion part of the 18th Infantry Brigade sixth division in October of 1915 on October 21st 89 men, including Harry, joined the battalion while it was camped behind the line. Shortly after, the Germans launched a huge barrage against Allied rest areas along all the front in retaliation for royal artillery shelling of their own billets. Although little damage was done, the sound of the guns which had caused Harry to fall ill before had begun all over again for him. At the end of the month the battalion began an 11-day spell in the trenches characterized by heavy rain collapsing fortifications and mud by November 3rd an officer had been killed and almost all dugouts had collapsed leaving men with little respite from the appalling weather

on December 5th the battalion marched to Everling spending the next 10 days forming working parties to carry out tasks such as repairing paths despite not being in the line casualties were sustained when the parties were sustained when the parties were shelled and fired upon by riflemen. So even when you go back to the rear, you're still getting shot and killed. December 19th, when the area came under artillery bombardment and that frightening phenomenon of battle, the use of gas.

The action began at 5.30 a.m. when the British held trenches came under heavy rifle fire. Then at 6.45 a.m., when troops were stood to, in anticipation for an attack, shells containing gas were fired by the Germans. The effect of the gas was instantaneous and horrifying during the day 11 men died and 23 were wounded to suffering the effects of gas. Total allied losses on the day as a direct result of gas were 1,069 casualties and 69 deaths. The battalion was back in the trenches for the end of the year and the start of the new one on December 30th.

The battalion's headquarters was shelled, suffering two men killed and four injured. On February 14th, German artillery shells fell again in the battalion, killing five and injuring 15. By the time the First Battalion left the trenches the next evening, it had suffered the losses of nine killed and 51 injured. It underscores the losses suffered by the British Army during the First World War when 7,000 soldiers were killed and wounded every day as a matter of course. 7,000 a day. March 17th as they marched the four miles to begin a period of rest that was to last a month two men were killed and three men were wounded How the soldiers were afflicted is not recorded and its first spell back in the trenches so they go get some rest now it's coming back and the first spell back in the trenches after a month away from the line five were wounded and five killed During April Harry reported sick with nerves and was treated at a dressing station for two weeks before returning to frontline duty

his problems were worsening. Yet the fact he was not sent far behind the lines suggest medical officers did not deem him sick enough to be evacuated. June 3rd, another operation. Losses during the operation were heavy, with one officer and five sergeants killed

as well as five other ranks. Two sergeants and 24 other ranks were wounded at total casualty rate of about 17%. On July 1st, less than 100 months, south of their position following a week in which 1.6 million shells were fired British forces attacked on mass on a 15 mile long front the slaughter that ensued on the first day of the Battle of the Somme was prodigious with almost 60,000 British casualties a third of them dead news of the slaughter took days to filter

back to Britain and thanks to heavy censorship of the press the horrors of the battle were not truly expressed, but the casualty lists gave no lie to the situation. On July 15th, the West Yorkshire's left camp and moved by train to Ipres, where they relieved the 11th Battalion. Harry again reported sick with nerves on July 22nd and was detained by medical corps soldiers for the day, but this time he was returned as fit for duty the next day. So this guy's fallen apart. He keeps asking for help, and they keep sending him back to the front.

And mind you, he's in a state, I mean, not all the time, but he's at least reaching a state where he can't even write a letter to his wife. Can't even steady his hand for that and they're putting him back to the front over and over again. On August 6th, camp was broken and the battalion march. The battalion had joined the Battle of the Somme, infamous for the unprecedented British losses and intensity of the shelling operation. The next four days were spent in the brigade reserve as before, with hundreds of men sent digging and carrying duties. This work proved more hazardous than the previous week with four killed nine wounded one man missing believed to have blown up On September 11th the battalion proceeded with brigade to an area known as Sand pits the following day was spent with the brigade in reserve in

Six men were killed and four more were wounded among amid a general British offensive across the sector involving the use of the latest weapon tanks on September 18th the battalion joined other furses of six different in attacking opposing trenches at 5.50 a.m. whistle sounded along the line as soldiers poured up over the front trenches through previously cut barbed wire and between breastworks. Companies were met with very heavy machine gun and rifle fire and more forced to retreat back from the trenches where the attack started from. The cost was shockingly high with more than a hundred casualties across the battalion and attrition rate of more than 10% among the 13 dead were three officers almost a hundred officers

almost 100 soldiers were wounded including four officers later on September 19th the exhausted soldiers made their way to billets eight miles away where they remained overnight and the following day the attack was considered a success but private far had not taken part in the operation his final nervous collapse took place on September 17th Harry had fallen out sick on September 16th yet when he made his way to a dressing station the following day he was not seen because he was not wounded on September 17th he was ordered to the front in the company of a rations party but was found at 11 p.m. that night at the same place behind the lines having

disobeyed the order when he was subsequently sent to the front under escort he struggled with his guards and was released after refusing to see a medical officer further forward here we ran back towards the transport lines in the rear and was held under guard before being placed under arrest on September 18th and charged with cowardice The timing of his collapse ahead of the impending attack may have helped along the decision to charge him The battle of the soam resulted in the greatest loss of life in military history at the time for negligible gains Across the whole offensive during that awful summer and autumn between July 1st and November 19th the British army suffered four hundred and twenty thousand casualties the French hundred ninety five thousand and the German losses stood between five hundred and

six hundred and fifty thousand so the massive fighting that was going on at the Battle of Somme is also reflected in the fact that they're being super hostile towards him on October 2nd 1916 private Harry Farr stood trial by field general court-martial which was convened at Vil Serranc in France since his nervous collapse and arrest his battalion had again been in action following their part in the success in the capture of the quadrilateral this time they had helped attack and take the village of Le Buffs on September 25th's part of the wider battle of Morval it was against this backdrop of missing two significant actions that Harry was tried a field general court martial was a wartime disciplinary tribunal with the power to try all military offenses so obviously you know these guys are are they're not looking

to hear about your excuses of why you can't get after it with the rest of the troops and the rest of the troops are going forward the rest of the troops are going forward and they're fighting and they're fighting hard and they're making incredible sacrifices something that he Wasn't physically able to do at this point. He was he had lost it He had seen too much. He had done too much and he was done So they're sending him to court martial Harry was charged with an offense contrary to section four seven of the army Act of 1881 the exact charge was it misbehaving before the enemy in such a manner as to show cowardice

To which he pleaded not guilty Harry appeared without a prisoner's friend So there was there wasn't no there was no like lawyer to defend him it was just him just him Assessing the overall situation Captain Whitlow said I cannot say what has destroyed this man's nerves But he has proved himself on many occasions incapable of keeping his head in action and likely to cause a panic however the officer made a point of differentiating between these problems and the unfortunate soldiers nature saying apart from his behavior his conduct and character are very good so he's got one person that comes forward and says hey he's not a bad guy he's just he's just lost it right now

because he did a fair amount of fighting the next piece of evidence was signed by w. William the battalion's medical officer he wrote I hereby certify that I examined private Harry Farr first battalion Yorks on October 2nd 1916 and that in my opinion both the general physical and mental condition or satisfactory interestingly the word good appears before the word satisfactory but is struck out by the same hand indicating some doubts in the officer's mind the trial began formally with a prosecution witness regimental sergeant major h laking who said on 17th september 1916 about 9 a.m the accused reported himself to me at a line transport

He states that he was sick and had fallen out from the company the night previous on the march up to the trenches He states he could not find his company commander for permission to fall out I order him to report to the dressing station When he returns he states that he they would not see him and as he was not wounded I then order him to proceed the battalion with the ration party which was going in the evening The ration party paraded about 8 p.m. The accused was present and marched off with it on the arrival at the ration dump company quartermaster sergeant booth reported to me that the accused was missing on returning to the first line for about 11 p.m. I saw the accused standing near a brazier. I asked him why he was there. He replies, I cannot stand it. I asked him what he meant. He again

replies, I cannot stand it. I told him he would have to go to the trenches that night. He replies I cannot go I order company quartermaster sergeant booth to take him up to the trenches under escort after going 500 yards the accused commences to scream and struggle with his escort I again warned him that he would have to go to the trenches or be tried for cowardice he replied I am not fit to go to the trenches I then said I would take him to see a medical officer he refused to go saying I will not go any further that way I ordered the escort to take him on the accused started again struggling and screaming so they actually want to take him to a medical officer that's further forward and he's not

going he's done the second witness to be called was company quarter master sergeant j w booth of the first battalion West Yorkshire regiment and he says on September 17th 1916 about 3 p.m. I ordered the accused to parade with the carrying party at 6 p.m. to go up to join his company in the trenches the accused paraded and marched off with the ration party on arrival at the ration dump the accused was absent having fallen out on the way without permission about 9 p.m. I saw the accused near the first line transport the regimental sergeant major ordered me to take the accused with the

escort to the trenches about 500 yards from the first line transport the accused became violent threatened the escort and eventually broke away returning to the first-line transport the regimental sergeant major ordered me to place the accused in charge of a guard those stories kind of line up the third witness was private d ferrar who also appears to have survived the war he said on september 17th 1916 about 1130 p.m i was ordered by company quartermaster sergeant booth to form part of an escort to take the accused up to his company in the trenches After going about 500 yards the accused started struggling and saying he wanted to see a doctor the sergeant major said he would See one when he got a bit further up the accused refused to go any further

I tried to pull him along the sergeant major told me to let him go and the accused went back to the first line transport So there's the perspective of the folks that were with Private Farr and here is Private Farr's defense this is what he had to say about the situation on 16th September 1916 when going up to the trenches with my company I fell out sick I could not find the company officer to obtain permission the sergeant I asked has now been wounded I went back to the first line transport arriving there about 2 a.m. on 17 September 1916 I would have reported at once the regimental sergeant major only I was told he was asleep I reported about 9 a.m. on 17 September the sergeant major told me to go to the advanced dressing

station. They, however, would not see me as I was not wounded. The sergeant major told me to go up with the ration party at night. I started with this party and had to fall out sick. I could not get permission as I was in the rear and the sergeant major was in the front, but left word with a private soldier. I returned to the first-line transport, hoping to report sick to some medical officer there. on the sergeant major's return I reported to him and said I was sick and I could not stand it He then said you are a fucking coward and you will go to the trenches I give fuck all for my life and I give fuck all for yours and you'll get fucking well shot The sergeant major company quartermaster booth and private Ferrar then took me toward the trenches

We went about a mile when we met a carrying party returning from returning under Lance corporal and Form the sergeant major asked Lance corporal form where I was and he replied runaway same as last night I said to sergeant major you've got this all made up for me the sergeant major then told Lance corporal form to fall out two men and take me to the trenches they commenced to shove me I told them not to as I was sick enough as it was the sergeant major then grabbed my rifle and said I I'll blow your fucking brains out if you don't go. I then called out for an officer, but there was none. I was then tripped up and commenced to struggle.

After this, I do not know what happened until I found myself back in the first-line transport under a guard. If the escort had not started to shove me about, I would have gone up to the trenches. It was on account of their doing this that I commenced to struggle. after the statement Harry was cross-examined by the court's prosecutor who asked if he had had the opportunity of reporting six since September 16th Harry replied yes after I was put a under arrest on 18 September a member of the court martial then asked why he had not reported sick since his first arrest to which he replied fatefully because being away from the shell fire I felt better evidence to as to the character of private far was presented to the court the battalion's adjutant lieutenant W. Paul stated that he knew Harry for six weeks he said on working

parties he has three times asked for leave to fall out and returned to camp as he could not stand the noise of the artillery he was trembling and did not appear to be in a fit state so Harry had spent four years in the service of his country two years before the war and two years during it the private soldier took part in a number of actions with his infantry battalion most notably the battle of Nueve de chappelle it was one of the most intense and attritional chapters of the entire conflict on the western front one of the first examples of the wholesale slaughter of British troops for which the first world war has become renowned within months he was in the hospital his nerve

shattered with a diagnosis of shell shock yet he returned to the front in october of 1915 and fought on for another 11 months with two more spells of sickness because of his shell shock according to chris walsh in cowardice a brief history as world war one dragged on captain charles wilson of the Royal Army Medical Corps observed fear was no longer an occasional and exotic visitor but a settler in our midst its cumulative effect led Wilson later Lord Moran which was Sir Winston Churchill's personal doctor to think that a man's ability to hold up against it his courage was not absolute quality of his character but something he had a certain amount of like money in a bank account and which could be depleted slowly or suddenly by the hardships and horrors of war

Harry Farr had reached the limit of his endurance and could go no further and so the trial was over there was no lawyer no soldier's friend no support and there was no mercy back to the book the wording on the charge sheet was stark under a column entitled finding and if convicted sentence two words were handwritten in pencil guilty death there was no right to an appeal late 1916 a telegram arrived for Gertrude Farr from the war office opening the envelope with trembling hands and a thumping heart she read the bold typewritten message that realized her worst fears Harry Farr had died in France but not in battle or of wounds sustained under fire rereading it in disbelief Gertrude learned that her husband had been executed by firing squad message read we regret to inform you that Harry Thomas Farr of the first West Yorkshire regiment has been

been shot for showing cowardice in the face of the enemy shot for showing cowardice in the face of the enemy unfortunately he was not the only one for 351 men executed by the British army during World War one and more than 300 of those just over 300 of those were for their supposed cowardice and there is a book called shot at dawn by Julian Pekowski and Julian Sykes and it's called shot at dawn because that was generally when these executions were carried out they were carried out in the early morning and it details some of those men it actually details all the men and their deaths and provide some insight from some of the people that were there

during these horrible times. So I'm going to go to that book. The first sentence of death imposed on a soldier of the BEF, which is the British Expeditionary Forces, was carried out in the fifth week of the war. And the condemned soldier was private Thomas Highgate from Kent. He had been born in the little village of Shoreham

near Sovan Oaks, Seven Oaks, and I joined the army in February 1913. like many who enlisted for regular army service, the lad had joined up at the age of 17. After less than two weeks in action, the private had deserted on the day that he went missing. His battalion had started to move northwards, advancing. Highgate, who was wearing civilian clothing,

was discovered by a gamekeeper hiding in a barn. His uniform was concealed nearby. When questioned, he said, I want to get out of it, and this is how I'm going to do it. Not surprisingly, Private Highgate was found guilty. The sentence imposed was that he would suffer death by being shot. 17-year-old kid in March 1915, two soldiers from one West Yorkshire regiment were convicted of desertion and then were shot within a few days of each other.

The first, Lance Corporal Alfred Atkinson deserted whilst in rest, the battalion being under orders to proceed to the front. In January of that year, Atkinson had won a sum of money gambling, and after a bout of drinking, subsequently deserted. After three weeks, he was then arrested by the military police. At his trial, the court was told that Atkinson was a good soldier and previously of excellent character. As a result, his sentence bore a recommendation to mercy. A soldier serving with the battalion at the time later confirmed his opinion, saying that Atkinson was a clean, smart, brave soldier represented by all a responsible. by all his comrades when general sir Horace Smith Dorian reviewed the proceedings

he was of the opinion that an example was required and the sentence was confirmed and here's an eyewitness of an account the two men and this is Labor MP Ernst thirdel the two men I selected for the firing party went with the adjutant when they came back tough characters though they were to be they were sick they screamed in their sleep they vomited immediately after eating all they could say was the sight was horrible made more so by the fact that we had shot one of our own men private Abraham Beversstein was the only son of an East End family because it was considered dishonorable in certain Jewish circles to be a soldier Beaverstein had signed up

under the false name of Harris 1915 Christmas Eve private Beaverstein was wounded in the back he had he was admitted to the hospital suffering from these wounds and also from shock in his letters home private Beaverstein told of his progress in the hospital and that he'd been detained there since 19 January 1916 because he had developed a pressure sore on his heel 1st January 1916 dear mother I'm very sorry that I did not write before now but we were in the trenches on Christmas day and we had a lot to do also I was taken ill and was sent to the hospital I am feeling a little better so don't get upset also don't send any letters to the company because I won't get them also you cannot send any letters to the hospital as I won't get them dear mother do not worry I will be all right hoping all of you are getting on well I was

only hurt in the back I will try to send you letters every few days if I can to let you know how I am getting on we get plenty of food in the hospital Dear mother, I know it will break your heart this, but don't be upset about it. I will be all right, but I would very much like to see you. I will try my very best. And he did recover. And he went back to the front. On 13 February, the soldier had left his position in the front line trenches and made his way

to one of the company headquarters in the rear. He reported to his company quartermaster sergeant and stated that grenade had burst very close to him and that he was suffering from shock believing him to be a nervous condition this NCO told Harris to report the medical officer. Beverstein reported to the medical officer who examined him but found nothing wrong. As a result, the private was ordered to return to the trenches. Beversstein, however, did not obey, but made his way to a farmhouse in the rear where he took refuge. Shortly thereafter, whilst warming himself by a fire, an officer from another regiment came into the farmhouse and suspecting that

Beverstein was a deserterter placed the lad under arrest the letter sent home indicated that Beverstein was in trouble but did not disclose the serious nature of his predicament clearly as a soldier did not realize that his life was at stake but the letters relate that at the time of his desertion the private had been feeling unwell 23 February 1916 dear mother we were in the trenches and I was ill so I went out and they took me to prison and I'm in bit of trouble now and I won't get any money for a long time I will have to go to the front go in front of a court I will try my best to get out of it so don't worry but dear mother try to send some money not very much but try your best I will let you

know in my next how I got on give my best love to mother father and Kate your loving son Abby on March 4th when he was court-martialed private Beverstein explained that on the day of his absence a grenade had exploded beside him and this had been more than his nerves could stand He added that he had then lost control. The court was unimpressed by this story, and in spite of an unblemished record, the soldier was sentenced to death, and the finding was confirmed by the commander-in-chief.

Private Beaverstein's parents were left unaware of their son's predicament. The next communication which they received came from the army. It was an official army form, which carried a blunt message. Sir, I am directed to inform you that a report has been received

from the war office to the effect that private Harris a 11th battalion middle sex regiment g s was signed was sentenced after trial by court martial to suffer death by being shot for desertion and the sentence was duly executed on 20 March 1916 one and again this book is is details every single soldier you know picking out some of the some of the ones that stood out a bit to me the next soldier concerned was rifle been Albert Park serving with seven kings royal rifle core his crime was typical example of desertion committed with the intention of avoiding service in the line 35-year-old

Parker admitted drunkenness at his trial but this did not mitigate his offense and eyewitness later recalled the promulgation of sentence and the execution that followed then the prisoner's cap was taken off and he was told to take one pace forward which he did the AP M commenced to read the papers the man was then told to take a pace back again which he did without a quiver a braver man at that moment wasn't to be found in France he was then marched away to the place where he was to be shot we were then ordered to about turn and the brigade transport officer threatened us that any man who turned around would be

put on a crime so we stood in silence for what seemed hours although only minutes Then the shots rang out and one of the Yorkshire's fainted the strain was that great still we stood in silence until we heard another shot which I afterwards ascertained was the doctor's shot to make sure He was dead private Phillips of one cold stream guards was executed for desertion the clergyman who attended private Phillips was captain T guy Rogers chaplain to the second guards brigade the clergyman documented his feelings in what he clearly regarded as a most harrowing ordeal 31 May 1916 shall I tell you of it the terrible experience I've just gone through if so it must not go beyond the family circle of yourself and the Haslam's it has just fallen to my lot to prepare a deserter for his death

That meant breaking the news to him, helping him with his last letters, passing the night with him on the straw in his cell, and trying to prepare his soul for meeting God, the execution, and burying him immediately. The shadow was just hanging over me when I wrote the last letter, but I tried to keep it out. Monday night I was with him. Tuesday morning at 3.30, he was shot. He lay beside me for hours with his hand in mind. Poor fellow.

It was a bad case. but he met his end bravely and drank in all I could teach him about God his father Jesus, his savior and the reality of the forgiveness of sins I feel shaken by it all but my nerves thank God

have not troubled me everyone has been so kind who knew of the ordeal I will tell you some more some other time I want to get it off and away from the thought of it as much as I can here's a few guys that deserted together in a group Lance Sergeant Joseph's

Stones Lance Corporal Peter Gagins and Lance Corporal John McDonald in the new year when Sir Douglas Haig came to review the sentences he commuted the those imposed on the four privates so there's four privates with these guys these guys were the leaders of this group that deserted which were suspended But an eyewitness account recorded the final moments of the three condemned NCOs shot on 18 January Come out you ordered the corporal of the guard to me I crawled forth it was snowing heavily stand here he said pushing me between two centuries quick march and away we went not as I dreaded to my first taste of pack drill but out and up a lot the long street to an r e dump there the police corporal handed in a chit whereupon three posts three ropes and a spade were given to me to carry back our return journey took us past the guard room up a short hill until we reached the secluded spot surrounded by trees

Certain measurements were made in the snow after which I was ordered to dig three holes as stipulated Distances apart. I began to wonder could it be? No, perhaps spies perhaps oh perhaps only my fancy The next scene a piercingly cold dawn a crowd of brass hats the medical officer and three firing parties Three stakes a few yards apart and a ring of centuries around the woodland to keep the curious away The motor ambulance arrives conveying the doomed men, manacled and blindfolded. They are helped out and tied up to the stakes. Over each man's heart is placed an envelope. At the sign of command, the firing parties, 12 each align their rifles on the envelopes.

The officer in charge holds his stick aloft, and as it falls, 36 bullets usher the soul of three of Kishner's men to the great unknown as a military prisoner I helped clear the traces of the triple murder I took the post down I helped carried those bodies toward their last resting place I collected all the blood soaked straw and burnt it acting upon instructions I took their belongings from the dead men's tunics discarded before being shot a few letters a pipe some fags a photo a photo I could tell you of the silence of the military police after reading one letter from a little girl to dear daddy Private David Stevenson when sensing danger the soldier had run off when questioned the private had lied saying that he was working for another town mayor Unfortunately for Stevenson he was already under suspected suspended sentence for previous offense of desertion The recollections of an ex-sargent who had been in charge of the firing squad who shot Private Stevenson were published after the war. It was a terrible scene.

Being that I knew him made it worse for me, the ten men were selected for the firing squad from a few details left out of the line. They were nervous wrecks themselves, and two of them had not the nerve to fire. Of course, they were tried by court-martial, but they were found to be medically unfit. Their nerves had gone.

The last words the lad said were, what will my mother say you have one more and this was an interesting writing there was a private name private Frederick butcher and the report that comes out was actually published in a newspaper years after the execution but and and he calls the private Frederick butcher he calls him Jim but this eyewitness to his execution wrote about it in a paper I shall call him Jim he had been out three years he had been wounded but he was wounded at a time when wounded were cared for in France and were back in the line in six weeks there was nothing about Jim which

attracted special attention he was the average happy go lucky sort of lad who did the day's work on an average in the average way war had become normal to him and he had settled down to that fatalism which characterized so many of our men when they said if it is to be It will and if it ain't it won't as if he had suddenly been hit in the mind He stood stock still still one night and point blank refused to go over with a rating party In an instant he became a marked man his comrades could not quite determine whether it was bravery or idiocy Perhaps some string had snapped some Something somewhere had gone wrong, but Jim just refused he was exceedingly nervous, but such a breach of discipline was in itself

Sufficient to account for that by the time he stood on the mat before the court He had partly regained his normal composure, but the seriousness of the situation had washed away the color from his face, and there was a dull, leaden look in his blue eyes. His record saved him. It was good, and his judge's tempered judgment with mercy and consideration. He had been many platoon, he had had many platoon commanders, many captains, and with all he had done his bit. The court gave him a chance. He made no excuse whatsoever, but when questioned, he had had been. but when asked the question, he promised that it would not occur again. A week later, it did occur again. And the next court sentenced him to death. Blindfolded, with his hands tied behind him, he was to be shot at dawn the following day.

From the death century, Jim learned the names of the officer and men who were to send him west next morning. They were all his friends. two or three officers who had known him for years went into the death hut and said goodbye somehow none of them could quite catalog Jim as a coward terrible things happen in war but nothing perhaps is more terrible than to send one of your own out of life when you are not quite sure whether he is a coward or a martyr the world will never know the real truth there was no psychologist there to give an opinion even if there had then it might not have altered the course of events.

Discipline even then might have won an unfair victory over science. In the mechanism of Jim's mentality, a cog slipped and the wheels revolved irregularly. From what the CEO and Jim's pals told me, I am fully persuaded that Jim died as a martyr to discipline. Jim was blindfolded. his hands were bound together behind him as he stood there calm and steady as a rock the orders were given goodbye sir goodbye boys he said just as if you were off on a 10-day furlough there was no reply the subaltern was choked with a motion and the firing squad as heart rent as he dared not

reply the sharp crack of a volley smothered sighs of relief from the squad and all was over all save laying been him beneath the soil of France and there where Jim lies there shall remain forever a little bit of England as I said this is a awful thing And I'm sorry to have to bring it up and I'm sorry to have to talk about it. I'm sorry that we human beings are capable of this. And at the same time, what we are capable of so that we can prevent it. And eventually, in 2006, after way too long and after a lot of effort and hard work by a lot of compassionate people, the British government admitted that it was wrong.

And the story of that effort is retraced in the first book I read from, He Was No Coward, and it resulted in the pardon of Harry Far. And of 306 of the other soldiers who were executed, were shot at dawn for the crime of having a psychological breakdown under the immense mental and physical trauma of World War I and in 2006 Harry Farr's daughter Gertie who he started this story off with Gertie was presented with a letter from the Secretary of Defense Desmond Brown which included the official pardon for Harry far and it reads this document records that private Harry Farr of the

First Battalion of the West Yorkshire Regiment, who is executed for cowardice on 18 October 1916, is pardoned under Section 359 of the Armed Forces Act of 2006. The pardon stands as recognition that he was one of many victims of the First World War and that execution was not a fate he deserved. signed Des Brown, Secretary of State for defense. And so he was pardoned, and I would say that Private Harry, we beg your pardon. And I would say, let us learn something from this,

something about leadership and something about our behavior as human beings, our nature as human beings. let us learn something from the fate of Harry Far. And that is that we as human beings are not infallible. We are not perfect. And we will fall short of the ideals that we aspire to. We'll fall short of those. And we may not always be as bold and we may not always be as heroic

and we may not always be as brave as we want. But while we may fall short on those traits, let us never fall short in compassion, in sympathy, and in understanding. And let us, when we look to judge others, let us remember and let us know that our judgment is as imperfect as we are. It is us. The words of Wilfred Owens, we are the ones that dealt them war and madness. And so let us also be the ones who deal them mercy and forgiveness. Got four tonight. So echo Charles.

Kind of a rough one. Yeah. Odd. It's like an odd feeling. Right? Just that even that final. part of that last book. How, you know, you got to essentially

kill or witness both your friend. And even until that, it's not like you guys are friends. He betrays you, you know, and you're mad at him and then you kill him. It's not that. It's like, yeah, some other thing kind of happened. Meanwhile, you're still friends. And then you got to be a part of in whatever way. Like right in front of his face too. Yeah Like him dying and the kind where you're literally saying bye. Hey, bye and then next one dead. Yeah, and yeah, just kind of you know when you think you read these books. You have this picture in your mind, you know, and it's just it's so off putting just all the different facets that just come to play with a scenario like that and there's there's I mean obviously there's a huge dichotomy in this. There's the huge dichotomy in this. There's the huge dichotomy

and this is that there's all these millions of brave soldiers that went that went over the top and they were killed and so how can you have any sympathy for the people that are like no I can't do it and and the answer is you've got to recognize that different people are different yeah and and you know it's interesting that that last guy calls him a margar and the perspective that even someone that stood by him and someone that fought and took the same risks and could have been killed himself and happened to live He recognizes like hey. Yeah, this this happens and You know there's one part that kind of when you when I hear about this guy the one guy gets rolled up or gets caught by some guy that's patrolling around the rear Looking for deserters. It's like when I hear about that guy can picture that guy can picture that guy He's in the rear saying oh you need to more brief get get up to the front

Yeah, like you can picture that guy Yeah, and that that kind of makes me angry yeah, because you got somebody that's in the rear Policing up people sending them to the front why aren't you up on the front? Yeah Get up there yourself, but yeah, so there's a dichotomy to it in that You know you you you I mean obviously you uphold and and have the utmost respect for the bravery of the people that step up and and they're on put them on the I put them on the highest pedestal and then you've got these people that contradict that that I think that the line gets drawn in the fact

that these guys lose control they can't do it yeah they can't do it anymore they they mentally can't take it and again you know this is the same thing that Dick Winner said the same thing that Where it said that the guys reach a limit and they're done. And only people that have been in extensive combat recognize that people reach a point. And there's that whole section in Band of Brothers where some of those guys that are total studs, they can't go anymore. They break down. And Dick Winters is like, okay, as a leader, this is what I'm going to do.

I'm going to do my best to take care of me. If we can get them recovered, cool. If not, respect. If not, hey, it's okay. You did what you could. Yeah. It's a, it's a strange dichotomy. Yeah.

And you can't help, but try to imagine, not necessarily the specific scenario, but like, what is it, how does it, how does it feel to literally, like, not be able to do something? You know, like you, you, you know, there's a lot of shame for these guys that, that came home, and there was shame that they weren't wounded,

they weren't physically wounded, and the government treated them very badly in many cases. Yeah. Like, oh, you're cowards. And so it's awful. It's absolutely awful. It's why I hate World War I. I hate World War I.

Yeah. And that's a shoot, that's the thing too. It's not like, you know, they're taking a spin class and they quit halfway through because they were too tired or something like that. This is no echo you are correct. They were not in the spin class. This is World War I, by the way. Like super treacherous, super, yeah.

And then you're like, oh, yeah, what? You don't have the guts or you don't you're not brave enough for this and people people back in the safety of Call in calling judgment on on guys that and that's the other thing is these guys Almost every one of those guys they had fought for some certain amount of time They fought for six months 12 months a year two years Whatever they had fought and fought and they broke So yeah man it's awful It's awful

I do But you know I think it's something that if we can keep in perspective because there's so much judging. Yeah. You know what I mean? People judge each other all the time. Yeah. It's like, you know what?

Take a wrap off your judgment. Yeah. That was my, that was sort of what I was thinking through the whole time. I was thinking about how often am I judging someone? Yeah. You know, it's like, well, yeah, you don't get to judge. You don't get to judge. You just, you just do, you worry about you.

Yeah. And, hey, instead of trying to judge, why don't you try to help someone? There's a novel idea Instead of placing judgment on someone That's having a hard time with something Why don't you try and help them? Why don't you try and figure out how you can support them? Why don't you figure out what they need? You just think of anyone had that attitude

One person would have stepped up and said hey look I know this guy He was a good guy Let me try and get him back in the game Let me try and figure out what's wrong Instead of everyone jumping on board the judgment bandwagon Yeah, it kind of seems like it's that feeling of like I'm over here you're over there like hey I don't need that kind of help so

why should you kind of thing don't judge don't judge all right well instead of judging help how's that that's your that's my motto yeah instead of placing judgment how would you help someone out support somebody support I like what you just did there speaking of which how about let's go To some support you know support yourself before you go to that that opening poem by Wilford Owen is Freaking legit yeah freaking legit and it's I should read it again I should have read it at the end or something But go back and listen to it because it's it's it's it's a it's incredible poem from a guy that went through all that Yeah he went into the the psychological ward if it was called that he went through the what would be would have been called a psychological Award at the time and then he went back to the front and then he was awarded for valor and then he got killed and he wrote that powerful powerful poem it's freaking awesome

So had to throw that out there go back and listen to it yeah fully well support if you will Back to support back to support back to support back to support All right here are some outstanding ways to support your yourself and podcast if you're down for that first origin okay origin is our company I feel like it's everybody's company so now are let's say maybe now we can't include our international listeners on that we can definitely include our American listeners if you're an American listener if you're here in the good old US of A origin is our company and you're including that yeah and but for sure but I have been you know I've been hearing things

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I think it's funny when you represent the full origin sweatsuit, leisure suit. Yes, sir. Max comfort. Max comfort. Experience it for yourself, but yes. All that stuff. Good stuff. You got your supplements, too.

We got supplements. origin and we got joint warfare for your joints we got krill oil which is for your joints and everything else and what else discipline the discipline gives you a little we'll say a little edge yeah edge on the mats of Jiu jitsu and on the mats of life of life yes very much so mental edge physical edge you know vitamins vitamins are specific but we'll say for lack of a term vitamins for your brain I like that whole situation actually and then you got milk which is which is glorious it's a protein dessert fortified here's the thing about okay so here's the thing about milk

which I found out if I keep finding these things out here I'm not the kind apparently evidently I'm not the kind person who's like doing all the research what are the benefits of this thing apparently I thought I was that kind of person you just started drinking it yeah you're like oh okay I'm like cool I'll taste it boom I taste and it tastes like super good. So I'm like, okay. And then you tend, you start to become in the mood for some milk shake. A milk shake, yeah.

Milk shake, milk shake. And so I'll be like, yeah, I'm kind of in the, here's what I did. Do. I did this a bunch of times in a row. So I guess I do this. I make a peanut butter jelly sandwich and a moat shake. Yeah. And I put some of the peanut butter in the mold.

Okay. And that's the chocolate mint one. Yeah. Okay. And that's a weird. It is well it still tastes good tastes really good wait wait what what's weird peanut jelly sandwich with peanut butter and mint oh yeah together now see and you'd think yeah sure that is kind of odd it's not odd okay it's well you won't have to do that

for much longer yeah because we got peanut butter mom coming out so you can you can just be cool just chill with all that peanut butter in the mint and to me it's all good put it all in there BB and Jay is coming at you strong huh you're just getting all up on the Your butter and jelly sandwiches like you're like you're nine years old I know but remember old school that's the way to gain weight I don't remember that I just remember oh what's for breakfast what P B B B and J what's for lunch B B and J Yeah, oh we're going remember the little plastic Ziploc bag actually we didn't even have zip lock bags back in the day they just had like a foldover flap There'd be jelly smeared all over that thing mom never put enough jelly on the peanut butter and jelly sandwich No never it was all oh oh the bitch a bunch of peanut butter in there why is it cheaper that cost the same thing

Put more jelly on the sandwich, mom. Come on. Where are you at? Get that sweetness going. What makes that funny is that that is 100% true. Oh, it's universal. Yeah, I think it's universal. I don't know what's up.

The moms get taught at mom school. Lay off. Hey, hold it back on the jelly. Nope, you know what it was? Not think about it. When you buy, I mean, I don't know how much peanut butter you buy at the store and jelly, but probably as adults. The peanut butter things are a little bit smaller. They're smaller and a little bit more expensive.

Yeah. Yeah. And that peanut butter thing is huge. Well, potentially, I mean, you know, you got some kids or whatever. Sure. Crunchy, creamy, whatever. But you get the huge peanut butter. You got the little jelly with the jelly is more expensive.

Mom's trying to, you know, she's trying to beat economic about the whole deal. She went to that Home Depot class. That Home Economics class. Do you have Home Economics in high school? Yeah. I had home economics in high school too. Yeah, bro. It's good.

Unofficial. I think my little sister got kicked out of home economics. Oh, yeah, that was funny. Yeah, I could see that. Yeah. You didn't get kicked out. I definitely got in trouble a couple times in home economics, but I didn't get kicked out, but my little sister got kicked out.

For what, putting the butter knife in the toaster or something like that? I forget what she did. I'll research that and get back with you. She's a character. So, you know, that home economics was a little tough on her. She's a character for some reason. That doesn't surprise me. I don't know her.

But, you know, I know other members of your family. Check. Moke. Yeah. Back to Moke. All right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Moke, protein.

Yeah. Added protein. Here's the thing. Okay. So back to my point. My point was I don't do all the research, you know? So I start just pounding Moke, get on the Moke train, hardcore. And meanwhile, I'm discovering all these new things.

All right? I knew about the probiotics. But now it's like, I find out it's keto-friendly. It's, I mean. Unless you mix it with milk. Yes. I'll mix it with milk. I should make that clear. I mix it with milk. Yeah. Yeah. But you go like what? Like what's if you go like I said if you mix it without milk if you mix it with water then you're talking ham sandwich level of goodness. Yeah, but there's like it's like it's good. It's like coconut like like. Yeah, you could get some coconut. Yeah. That's true. That's true. I haven't tried it actually. I will try it. And here's the thing too. And this is if you Jocko don't know that much about this part. It won't surprise me. There are so many milk like substitutes. Variants. Yeah. Yeah, and variance.

Almond. Lactose-free. All kinds of stuff. There's like a lot, yeah, there's a lot of options for that. And when you're talking keto, that's a whole, you know, that's a, that's a whole, like, dietary thing. Yeah. You know, so there are a lot of options. So, nonetheless, regardless of what you mix it with.

Have you mixed it with any other kind of milk? Yeah, that, that, that. Almond milk? Almond milk. Almond milk's not keto friendly, is it? I don't think. No, it's not. Well, I'm not on.

You got to go coconut milk. You can go coconut milk. Yeah. And you go. could get there yeah and actually you got to get the real coconut milk you can't get the fake coconut you can't get the you can't get the the the milk that's the coconut milk that they're trying to sell you as like a health thing well not yeah not and keeping my and they're dumbing a bunch of sugar and they're on the side well wait are you

talking about coconut water because there's a different water did no I'm not talking about talking about coconut milk and I know the difference okay bro in Hawaii we learned all about that in school the difference we know coconut milk and coconut water All right, well, there you go. None, but you were right, though. You were right about the coconut milk. If you get the, you know, the unsweetened or the one, the real kind. Yeah, yeah, the real kind.

Yeah, yeah, the real one. And that's keto you're saying. Yes. Okay. So that's the one I mixed it with. It's got like 10 billion grams of fat. It's so good. It's like 98 grams of fat in a can of coconut milk.

Get some. But as far as keto goes, that's dope. You're good? But we're talking about the milk itself, though. The milk is the powder. Yeah. So that's keto. So whatever you mix it with, that's going to be, you know, in extreme ownership situation.

You know, if you want to stick with the keto, stick with the keto. Moke is part of that deal. You can do that. Check. And the last good, good clean protein, probiotics, all these things. And it tastes good. And here's the thing. It's not like, oh, yeah, all these benefits.

And then, by the way, it tastes good. It's not that. To me, it tastes good. Oh, and by the way, it has all this good stuff. So you're now with me on the thing about the importance of things tasting good, or I should say the importance of things tasting good. You're with me that that is probably, possibly the most important thing. If you're going to bring something into your game, like fully, if this is going to become part of your life,

if it doesn't taste good, it's not going to become part of your life. And if you bring something that's part of your life that tastes like crap, like how long are you going to sustain that for? And why when you can have something that delish? Yeah. Yeah, you don't have to have that beef anymore. No, no for the skin stuff. But yeah, and that's the whole reason I, like I did, like I said, peanut butter jelly sandwich with the malk, right?

And I put a little bit of peanut butter in it, like I said. And I'm like, it is literally like a dessert. I'm like pounding it on the thing. It's really good. No less, yeah. Monk, very good. OriginMane.com. That's where you get these outstanding things.

also jujitsu immersion camp back to jujitsu and origin in and of itself in and of milk there at the origin camp a lot of it yes there's also jiu jitsu there strangely enough i know best way to learn jiu jutsu most of the i'm sure there are exceptions but if you immerse yourself in any activity that's a very very effective and good way to learn and there's an jiu jutsu immersion camp Yeah. August 26 through September 2nd this year. So that's coming out. Yeah.

A bunch of us are going. Including some people that have never trained before. Wait, okay. So did we find out whether or not it's sold out? Because we're all talking about it. I just check the website and it's not sold out. Okay. So it's not sold out.

I don't. It might be close, but go and sign up now. Yeah. And then we can go. And then, yeah, well, that's the best way to find out if it's sold out. Go sign up. Yeah. If it says, cool, you're signed up.

You're solid. That means not sold out. Worse case. Bring a tent. Yeah Echo Lake tent gets on as I say but yeah yeah lake tent mosquitoes Yeah mosquitoes there is there yes it's everywhere I guess well main it's a state bird up there

There's a state bird they used to get me through my like jeans at night oh yeah can you imagine a mosquito This is so psycho it just like comes up jeans no factor yeah right through those with a stinger Yeah that's a needle yeah that's the main ones Yeah, that's weird on Kauai. There's mosquitoes for sure. They're not, they're legit mosquitoes, but I don't think maybe if you go in the mountains or something like that. Well, they only have to bite through that lightweight hood. They don't have to be so hardcore.

No, that's true. That's true. Nonetheless, Emerging Camp, real good one. A lot of people going, man. A lot of people, legitimate people going, beginners, advanced everywhere. Dean Lisch. Dean List. That's an advanced guy, obviously.

Yeah. Advanced guy, to say the least. Nonetheless, that's going to be far second. Come again. Also, Jocco has a store. It's called jocco store. Dot com.

So jocco store.com. This is where you can get the shirts. If you want to represent, you're going to represent the path that we are all on, if you will. Discipline equals freedom. Discipline equals freedom is the path, really. Yes.

It's like freedom. It's like the path is discipline. No, actually, I don't know if that's right. Discipline equals freedom is. the sort of like the roadmap yeah but the path is like yeah the path is actually doing it yeah this one is the path yeah and then freedom is like the result the destination where you're continually trying to go yeah but you're the you're just existing in this fabric of freedom because of the discipline true hey however you

want to put it if you want to represent go to jocco store.com you can get shirts rash guards, hoodies, hats, and bea-neas and whatnot. T-shirts. Did you say T-shirts? T-shirts on there. Trucker hats. Tank tops even. It's getting warm, man.

It's been warm. Male tank tops? Male tank tops. Oh, I mean, it's an order. All right, there you go. Oh, that's good. Do it, but yeah, man, if you want to represent. Are they, are they, because you know I'm not super fashion aware?

Yes, I do know that. Yeah. Are tank tops out in or out of style? because tank tops are in style I asked this is because first of all I wear the same clothes forever yes I wear them until they're completely destroyed well I had when I met my wife I had a bunch of tank tops and that was sort of like my go-to I just wore them all time because it's hot right yeah yeah well I didn't wear them all time but anytime the temperature were anytime in the summertime anytime yeah yeah functional and then one day my wife because they were all old and ratty and they had

Guinness stains on them and they were just all jacked up but I didn't care of course because whatever and my wife through every single one of them away yeah every single one of them away like just and and the thing is in her mind it wasn't spiteful yeah she was actually like super stoked like oh yeah oh yeah you know those old uh ugly shirts yeah the dirty shirts I threw them all away so you just have clean shirts now you're welcome you know she's coming at me with You're welcome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And meanwhile, these were all like my favorite. They were all super you know a shirt that's like 14 years old is super comfy Yeah, I know the idea you're the you're the comfort dude for connoisseur Come on a t-shirt that's 20 years old is more comfortable in a t-shirt that's brand new correct? Yes, okay

So I had a whole series of tank tops like that all super comfortable My wife threw them all the way I've been complaining the one thing is my wife complains about me is that when something happens Yeah, like this I hold it against her forever yeah I still will bring it up like like you know it's been hot lately yes you know the them all like oh she's like I can't believe how hot it is I mean like yeah it'd be nice fat some tank tops yeah yeah so okay tank tops yeah I need to go order so you go yeah back in the game with the tank tops coming at you to answer your

question are tank tops what you say in fashion yeah because when I think tank tops I also think like 80s dude right which is pretty much what I was and probably still am, but I'm just throwing like a question out there to make sure I'm not out of line with the... You know what, though? I think tank tops... Remember them pants that...

I forget what they were called, but like the bodybuilders were those pants that were kind of like an elastic waist and they kind of like were printed. Yeah, all wacky. Yeah, yeah. Like, I don't want... If that's the equivalent right now,

I don't know who to roll out like that. You know what I mean? If those things were functional, I mean, if those... Pants were like fun but they were super not functional. I don't know I mean functional for what what I don't know what those pants were called What do you think they were actually called? I think they had a name Yeah, I think so I don't know what they're called I know and this is a different type of pants, but you remember the MC hammer pants Yeah, those are slightly different similar

Yeah, but yeah the bodybuilding ones with the print on them. Yeah, they're kind of white. They're kind of fluorescent Yeah, balloony, but tight at the ankles. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they're capered I actually never had a pair of those Thank God. Yeah, I can see that. Yeah, that's the kind of thing where it's like a picture that surfaces on the internet. You're all like, damn. Yeah, that's old school. Yeah.

It's retro, actually. You know how they bring it back? Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. I don't know. Tank tops, though, they're in. Okay.

They'll never go out because tank tops is too broad and the thing, too. They're functional. They're like cooler. They're like not as hot. Yes. So we're down with them. Agree. So when we got that, get on it.

If you want to represent jocco store. com. So we do it. Women's stuff on that. there too by the way if it actually said that already but can't overstate it something for everybody you actually can overstate a lot of things you're right yes cool we're down you're right that's sort of like part of your thing I guess mm-hmm like you know tank tops and overstating stuff all right there you go what about subscribe how about subscribe how about that let's let you

we'll shift gears here great way to support it's just simply to subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already and then leave a review so I can read your funny review oh you're smart and intellectual review but you might want to leave a funny one and also the warrior kid podcast yes good one regards to stuff who you if you're if you have any relationship to kids on any even semi-continual basis where a kid podcast very beneficial I press record and listen to it and I personally bring the lessons home I do too I'm digging on the and we're getting great feedback yeah people are digging it yeah and digging it you're digging it good

one for teachers too yeah which is you know obviously that fits the category of having a relationship of kids also YouTube you can get your your kid videos on YouTube and you can get the Jocko podcast videos on YouTube and Echo's actually been stepping up his game big time semi active yeah semi active I guess that's a step up you're semi active on and he makes not only the videos of this podcast but he also makes enhanced ones with lots of graphics you need to let him know sometimes maybe he's brushing up against going too crazy right yes it's we've been talking about it yeah if if too many things explode I mean let's face it there's a lot

of movies out there what are those movies what's like the most the what's the most the best one commander okay so there commando has just no you got to go with a more modern one where there's more CGI and just everything's blown up Oh, dang. I watched one the other day with my nine-year-old daughter. Everything blew up. Everything was on fire. Everything.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was starting to seem like it was one of your videos. All right. There you go. There you go. You've got that new tool. What tool? The only video that I think is truly brushed up against that you've made,

I don't think you're across the line, but the Warpath video. You were brushing up against everything that I did, exploded and turned to dust and caught on fire. You were on the Warpath? Yeah, that's a good point in the video. It was thematic. Yeah, yeah. And it happened to be Christmas time at the time for the original one. Yeah, well, that video I can't. No, God, still on there. So there's that. Nonetheless. Yeah, you can, those are all on YouTube. Yes. Yes. Also, when we're working out, just got rings. I told you that. Yeah. It just came in. Boom. Really nice ones, too. You can't do muscle ups though, because your arm. Not right now. No, but here's the thing, but I never got into

muscle ups. That's wrong. So I've attempted muscle ups and I've seen That there's a technique to muscle ups. Like it's not like, yeah. So I've never had the pleasure of doing a muscle up ever. Never done a muscle up. Rings, bar, nothing. So, on my arm heels, fully, when I'm capable, I'm doing muscle up.

That's my whole, gonna be one of my things. Also, a pistol squat. Okay, so I've done pistol squats before. Really hard, really clunky, really ugly even. But did I call you out on that one day? I know like while we were doing the podcast like after the podcast I was like Ooh pistol yeah, and then I was like well, that's good yeah, are you? You're not as flexible are you no no, no I am remember you're like you're like in my knees of ankle Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah we got a lot of room to move around in the knees

Yeah, you think you're so Just saying. Just say it. Yeah, yeah. Just so side-splittingly funny. Anyway, very flexible. I'm going to do pistol squats and muscle up. So watch and be really good at it.

Nonetheless, my point is I got my rings. Anyway, actually my point is we're talking about Onet. So you go to Onet.com slash jaco. This is where I have been getting outstanding workout gear that deviates from my normal dumbbells. You know? Whatever. So that's how I got turned on to kettlebells, all this good stuff. They have some good stuff.

The bag, you know, like the, I don't think it's a Bulgarian bag. You know what a Bulgarian bag is, right? I have a Bulgarian bag. Okay. And I have the big sandbag thing from on it. Okay, so how big is your sandbag? Bigger than yours. I don't have one.

Oh, okay. No, I don't know. No, the one, there's just one size, I think, from on it. Okay. Yeah. But then you can, you fill it up, right? Yeah, you can put different amounts of sand on it. Okay, how much is yours?

For sure. I have no idea. No, no, no, go away, tell me. Okay. Just so I can fill up more. Put an extra pound in there. Cool. But I've been doing that, the Farmers Carry thing.

I mean, my arm can't sustain too much weight, but, bro, it's solid. Yeah. It's a solid. I go around the block the other day with my 106s. Two of them. Yeah. One in each hand. Yeah.

And like, I just like, okay, you know, it's definitely challenging. Yeah. And I have to set them down a couple times during that lap. But what I noticed was the next day, like my entire. My entire like traps, neck shoulders everything and forearms. We're all sore Yeah, yeah. So I knew I had that in the routine. I was doing it pretty regular because I like to see how far I can get each time But anyways it's it's really good just for your body like strength how far is your block? I don't know More than well a block is about what you can't say that because the blocks are yeah

I'm thinking like city block downtown town's San Diego specific. It's different. Way different. Nonetheless. Anyway, onet.com slash jocco. Really cool stuff on there. Cool info as well.

You can get stuck on that website because there's a lot of cool stuff on there. Also, psychological warfare. It's an album with tracks. A lot of people ask for an alarm system. This is kind of an alarm that you can put in your phone, and it's me talking about times that you might want to slack off.

This will not allow any slack. Psychological warfare. It's on iTunes, Google Play, etc. Check. It's a good one. Dang. It was pretty concise. Yeah.

And effective because that that is what it is. Also, jaco white tea. Yeah. I got, so the tea, I'm into the cans, not into the brewing one. J.P. I think J.P. might have a problem. J.P. is all about it. Actually, okay, so let me ask you this.

It has a little bit of caffeine. And what's good is that J.P., JP, my brother, that boy can drink some day. Dang, energy drinks, like crazy. Yeah. Like, where I should have as a friend been like, hey, JP, I need to talk to you. I need to send you to rehab. We need to get you off these things. Because he would pound that stuff, you know, because he's going hard, man.

He's, you know, JP's getting after it. And so it's like, oh, okay, cool. I'll just drink nine energy drinks. And also now he's on, he's drinking joccal white tea. And so that's a real positive. It's a good replacement for that crap. pounding them yeah yeah I let's call me like a crackhead like hey man's gonna yeah I just got another two cases by the way can't can you give it to little kid like

but not babies there's caffeine in it bro that yeah that's what I don't think you can give it to little kids yeah because my son grabs grab what's his dead lift he does lift though or he tries to do anyway little kid nonetheless yes very good ooh another thing that happens to taste really really good from jocke Jocco, jocco's into the whole tasting good thing. Nonetheless, Jock white tea, really good on. Organics certified, by the way. So get down with it.

Yeah. It's a good way to support. You know what, right now it's on Amazon. And we're going to expand that. We got it in Canada. It's on Jocko store, too, by the way. I want to say Australia. We're getting some jaco tea in Australia.

We're going to go England. So anyways. Well, the store ships everywhere. Look, I, are the shipping from the store is... I hate when people, I hate when people say like, Hey, man. What's a store? with your shipping.

Yeah, I know. I'd rather you just don't buy it, you know? Your bike, whatever, wait till we get it

to your country. Yeah. Well, we have it in your country. We got in Canada. We got it in England. We got on Australia. Yeah.

Jock-O-T. Well, here's the thing. Shipping from the store can get challenging because we're paying what they're kind of charging us for the

it's like a whole thing. And we're working on just slowly and slowly shipping more, you know. And plus the the bigger We get then we get the economy of scales.

Yes. And so that's, you can make stuff cheaper too. So I appreciate that support. While we're on our way, because one day you're going to be able to buy jocco white tea everywhere you go. Yeah. It might just be coming out of your drinking fountain, too. Just like, oh, yeah, just jockey white tea. Yeah, yeah.

That way everyone's getting stronger. Sink. Yeah, I wrote some books. One of them is called The Way of the Warrior Kid. One of them is a follow-up of that book series called Way of the Warrior Kid. Way the Warrior Kid marks mission. Those books will help your kid, I promise. How's that?

Yeah. Should I do that? Yeah, I think I should. I think you should do that, yes. I've got, I've not had anyone. Say, hey, my kid read that book and didn't like it and has now said that they want to get weaker. Yeah. That has not happened yet.

Hey, this does not help. Yeah. So Way of the Warrior Kid books, get them for whoever. Whatever kid you know, whatever family, get them for your library, get them for whoever. It's good it's like it's like a good way to help man It's a good way to help Also got a book called discipline equals freedom field mail I saw someone just wrote on Twitter that that's the best book they've ever read

Now I didn't know frame of reference might be the only book he's ever read But unless I will say this the field manual If you crack that thing open and you take a little look it'll it'll reset your You're your compass a little bit It really will. It resets my I wrote the book and I still get my compass reset when I look at it So it's a good book too to get for people that are sort of like Maybe they're a little bit They're there's somewhere right. Yeah, they're not really going in the right direction

Or they're not going the right direction as hard as they should be Boom. Yeah, it doesn't matter you're someone that's like completely off the path like on the slippery slope You're in the in the what was that place you called one time like the The weeds? Yeah, not No, no, it wasn't the weeds. You used someone from a movie that you saw, which is a lot of movies. Some place of misery. Swamps of Sadness.

You're in the swamps. Maybe someone in the song. Get him the book. But you get someone that's like not in the swamp, but that's actually on the path. They would get further on the path. Get him that book right there. I really like how you swamps of sadness. Yeah.

That makes me feel very good. Using references via you. So that's discipline equals freedom. The field manual. It's not a normal book. No. It's good. It's not a normal book.

Extreme ownership that's the first book I wrote with my brother Leif Babin and that book is about leadership It's about the combat leadership principles. We learned on the battlefield and how you can apply them to everything that you do now. We got a follow-up book to that called the dichotomy of leadership The follow-up book to that is actually chapter 12 of extreme ownership talks about the dichotomy of leadership And that's balancing these opposing forces and we realized through Eschalonfront our consulting company that the biggest problem people People have is that they have a hard time staying balanced as a leader. So we wrote a whole book about it So that people can dial in and get granular and that's the dichotomy of leadership We're getting awesome feedback on it We're better writers now than we were then I mean seriously it's been three years I've been reading and writing of

Non-stop and so we're better and so yeah, that's that that comes out September 20th If you want the first a dish You got to order it now Someone said that they're ordering it now So that they get the first a dish so that when they meet me and I sign it They're not like holding your head down in shame Someone else said hey, oh, I guess I'm a bad guy because I gave away my first a dish of Extreme ownership. You're not a bad guy. You just made a mistake

Get somebody else the third a dish the fifth of dish You don't care about that. There's only one a dish. You only get one crack at the title. Or they're very noble. You have me copies of Extreme about face I have? I'm going to count them. I don't know, but I got a lot.

No kidding. Always in the hunt for that first a dish. Got a couple of them. Got you. Gotcha. So, anyways, that's that. Also, I just mentioned echelon front. That is our leadership and management consulting company.

It's me. Laif Babin, J.P. Dennell, Dave Burke. Flynn, Cochran. And also Mike Sorrelli, who is just on the podcast, 134. Awesome podcast. Awesome to talk to Mike. Awesome to be working with Mike again. And what we do is we solve problems through leadership, period.

That's what we do. Muster 006 in San Francisco, California, October 17th and 18th. It's going to sell out. We're getting close, but, yeah, register at Extreme Ownership.com. Every muster we've done has sold out. This is the sixth one. Also, this is an important one for current military law enforcement, border patrol, firefighters, paramedics, everywhere, all you first responders out there. We got a one-day leadership seminar in Texas, Dallas, Texas, September 21st.

We did this because we want to do something shorter and focused so that more people in uniform could get to it. And it's a cheaper price point than the muster. So if you're in one of those types of organizations, come to the roll call. But it is a muster a sense it's a mini muster would you say that it's not really a mini muster It's it's they're both leadership training right but this one is completely focused on these dynamic environments Whereas the muster's talking about talks about a broader leadership a little bit broader not so focused I shouldn't say not so focused it's this one is specific it's the dynamic environments Yeah fully and we can focus a little bit more on it the challenges are we can address the challenges that those leaders have in those dynamic environment

As opposed to the muster where we address that one is is definitely the muster is more focused on business leadership Even though we get all types of leaders and we do get military law enforcement there It's focused on Business leadership more this one we focus and like and I just got back. I mean it's worked with a The Arizona Highway Patrol and just being out there You know you just you you hear that it's leadership and the better you are as a leader the better your team's gonna be the more prepared you're gonna be for bad situations and we you know Echonfront does this we work with fire departments we work with police departments And we know that not every department can bring us in so that's why we do this that's why we decided to do this roll call so people could come to it and get the training concentrated one day

So they were better prepared to do their jobs on the beat on the battlefield wherever they are All right and and lastly we have the Overwatch EF Overwatch which is where we are connecting special operations vets combat aviation vets with companies that need solid leaders you can go to eFoverwatch.com to get in the game on that and if you want to spend some time with us virtually virtually in the virtual world until we see each other live at the muster in san francisco or we see each other live at the roll call in texas or live at the immersion camp in main then you can find us on the inner webs on Twitter, on Instagram, and of course, on that phase-up.

Echo is at Echo Charles, and I am at Jocko Willink. And as always, to those you out there in uniform that are protecting us here and abroad, that's the military law enforcement, firefighters, Border Patrol, paramedics, other first responders without you, the world falls apart. So thank you for what you do. And thanks to everyone for listening. Thanks to everyone for supporting. that this podcast is not always the most uplifting thing to listen to I know it gets heavy

I know it gets dark just like life does but I definitely don't want you to dwell in the darkness I don't dwell there but as I've said before I do think that we need to know the darkness so that we can steer our lives in the right direction away from toward the good and toward the light so go out there don't be judgmental go out there and fight against the darkness by doing what you should be doing what you know you should be doing by doing good by being good and of course by getting after it until next time this is Echo and Jocko. Out.