Jocko Podcast - 137: If You Know The Way Broadly, You Will See It in All Things. With Jiu Jitsu World Champion, Dean Lister.

Episode Date: August 8, 2018

0:00:00 - Opening 0:09:16 - Dean Lister: San Diego, South America, Jiu Jitsu, and "The Way" 2:05:20 - Support. 2:34:28 - Closing Gratitude.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 137 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. If you know the way broadly, you will see it in all things. And that is a simplified quote from Musashi's Book of Five Rings. And it's a solid quote. Makes sense. I believe it to be true.

but at the same time while I agree with Musashi that if you know the way broadly you'll see it in all things there's a little bit of a problem with that concept and the problem is how do you get to know the way broadly I mean the way is no easy thing to grasp that you aren't born with it you don't just wake up with it it's something that you have to learn And it's something that you are always still learning. But even though you have to learn the way, at the same time, learning the way is hard because the way is something that's hard to teach. And recently I've been asked by a couple different people and a couple different scenarios, how I learned what I learned. How have I learned what I learned?

And this is, believe me, no claim that I know. a ton of stuff I don't as I just said I am still learning but I will say that I do know the way broadly enough that I now see it everywhere and in everything so how did I learn the way well it's kind of interesting because it's a combination of actually it's it's more of a collision of a bunch of different things of course my time in the seal teams and I do trace a lot of it back to the seal platoon where we had a little mutiny we had a bad boss and we ended up turning against him and he got fired and replaced by the best boss and and the just a position

and the contrast between really good leadership and really bad leadership made it very clear but it wasn't just that of course i had other great guys that i worked with in the seal teams that taught me a ton a great instructor cadre that put me through training It taught me a ton and you know, I realized I always paid close attention to leadership and tactics and I think that's probably because I saw it something that I might be able to get good at since there was a lot of things that I wasn't naturally good. I wasn't naturally the strongest. I wasn't naturally the fastest. I wasn't naturally the best shot. So I kind of paid attention to leadership and I paid attention to who did it well and who didn't and I paid attention to tactics and And I paid attention to what worked and what didn't from a tactical perspective and I read Now, I will tell you right now I did not read a lot by any stretch especially compared to how much I read right now But I read some important books That had a big impact on me and of course they were only books about war and

In those books about war the things that I actually paid attention to It wasn't like the It wasn't the the political situation that was going on I paid attention to the leadership I paid attention to the tactics I paid attention to the human nature Of how men Reacted to war And so some of those books and again it wasn't a lot

About face with the old breed battle leadership the last hundred yards some very straightforward books and books and books that I covered early on this podcast. And then, of course, on top of that, I got lucky with my deployments overseas and I got to experience war from a leadership perspective. And I started to see how things overlapped and intertwined. And one of the things that really helped me see the connections between leadership and tactics

and human nature and life in general was Jiu Jitsu. I talk about Jiu Jitsu a lot. Obviously, we talk about Jiu Jitsu a lot. Jiu Jitsu is a simple, straightforward, practical representation of the way. If you think about what Jih Tzu has in it, right? It has offense. It has defense.

It has flanking. It has conservation of energy. It has deception. It has attack. It has concentration of effort. It has position improving your position. It has maneuvering. It has placing baits and using faints and always keeping your base and keeping your balance while at the same time trying to upset your opponents.

Now, everything I just said, you could use that for combat, for tactical situations. You could also use it in business. You could use it in interactions with other human beings as you maneuver through human nature. and how you interact with it and there's psychological elements inside of jiu jitsu as well that are reflected humility you're gonna get humbled by jiu jitzer and at the same time dichotomy you're gonna gain confidence you're gonna know the truth you're gonna know where you actually stand you know it's not you're gonna get a belt But that belt it only represents it only it doesn't fully represent the reality of the situation The reality of the situation is the truth and in jiu jitzu you know the truth you can be vulnerable

You're gonna you're psychologically you're gonna learn about tenacity you're gonna you're gonna have to have grit You're gonna have to have durability you're gonna have to have stability and as I trained jiu jitsu and I garnered a better understanding of jiu jiu jitsu I started to have a better understanding of the way. And as I learned the way on the mats, the way revealed itself in combat, it revealed itself in leadership, in human nature, and in life. Because as you, and I talk about this as well,

as you understand things from different angles, right? So when you learn the way in different disciplines, you start to see it from different angles and eventually I came to understand the way broadly. And now I do see it in everything. And this is another thing. The more I see it in everything, the more I see it in everything. So understanding the way, like I said, a lot of it had to do with this thread. And I talked about it when we when we talked about judo. I talked about how Jiu-Jitsu is the thing that started I started to see a connective thread between these

between these different disciplines and a lot of it my understanding of Jiu-Jitsu helped me in every other aspect and a lot of my in fact the vast majority of my understanding of Jiu-Jitsu comes from one person and the person I was lucky enough to learn from is a pioneer of the sport considered by many people to be one of the greatest grapplers ever he's a practitioner that actually revolutionized the sport of jiu jitzu and grappling and his influence is still evident today world champion multiple times over also a mixed martial arts fighter who has faced some of the best in the world in some of the biggest arenas in that sport and someone who I have trained on the mats of justice with for over 20 years

and who's been a close friend of mine that whole time through many ups and downs through victories and defeats through struggles of life on and off the mat master of jiu-jitsu and a friend of mine my brother dean lister who is now finally coming on the show show Dean welcome to the show jaccao great to be your brother thank you for the invite yeah man

let's start at the beginning and I was thinking about I know a little bit about your beginning and but I actually didn't realize that I know that you were raised somewhat in Panama but where were you actually born born in Camp Pendleton Oceanside here in San Diego so your dad was in the Marines right that's right that's right So I'm a native with San Diego, but two years I grew up in Venezuela, two years in Panama. And my whole life had been all around the world, traveling, learning the world. It was very important to study. How old were you when you moved to Venezuela?

I was in third grade, so eight, nine years old. Did you go right into Spanish-speaking school? Well, they had English and Spanish at the same time. I didn't speak Spanish. That was actually a problem for me. And I actually learned Spanish fluently when I lived in Panama. was in junior high. And that was, of course, during the...

Did you go to a Spanish school, Spanish speaking school, or did you just learn it out in the streets? I learned best from, let's say, free rolling. Let's say something. Saying something, you do it wrong. You actually learn how to speak better. So I've actually been dropped off in countries and learn languages that way.

It's the best way, actually. So you have no choice. Immersion. Immersion, exactly. In Panama, it was DOD, a part of defense school. And, matter of fact, they used my junior high is a hospital, field hospital, during the Panama invasion.

And that's where I actually learned Spanish. I had survival Spanish when I was a little kid, but Panama. What years did you live in Panama? 89, 88. So I was the 7th and 8th grade around that time. 7th and 8th grade, you lived in Panama. The invasion went down in 89, I think, December of 89. December 18th or 20, I forget.

And you were like in it. It was happening around you. What happened was Fort Amador, which actually means Fort Lover in Spanish. It's a Navy base. It's not a very big base, but it's the only base in Panama that were trying to make a joint effort

to have half Panamanian. Well, imagine. I was in the middle of about maybe 80 yards from where my house was down a hill. About 40 guys got massacred there. The front gate to the base. Some PDF, the Pentagon Defense Force, police, military, same thing down there.

They tried to run a Marine roadblock in a bus. That's not going to work out. Good for that. And the Marines said, 50 cowl just... And the bus grinded to a halt,

basically. It just didn't make it. So, yeah, what did they do with the families during that time? Well, so, like, what did you... I mean, your dad,

did he have to work? He was at Corey Heights, which was the main, you know, headquarters. So he was basically underground this big rock. And he could not tell us. So he knew,

but there's no way it was like top secret whatever, compartmentalize, whatever you would say as far as he couldn't let us know. And they didn't, he didn't send you out of the country? It happened real fast. Yeah. Because they killed the Marine lieutenant, I believe it was Lieutenant Paz.

And that was maybe, yeah, that was not the reason. That was the straw that, not the straw, the boulder that broke the camel's back. For sure. And sending all our forces. That caused me some problems, though, in school because most of the kids were Panamanian kids. They called them Zonis. Their parents worked on the Panama Canal. And so they were pretty well off.

I went to the school down there. And because of that, everyone from Panama had an uncle or a cousin who died. And so they see me. By the way, I was a goofy little kid. I'm not saying I wasn't tough. I was just goofy. So didn't speak Spanish. I was goofy.

My social skills were a little bit awkward. Maybe they are to this day, actually. And that's a recipe. for disaster, right? So that's actually... Were you scrawny? I was always... I was always tough scrawny,

but I didn't get big until it was like 16, 17. Started growing real fast. Yeah. And so you were getting scraps down there, basically? Because you were to Gringo. Oh, caningo.

You called us Yankee down there. Gringo didn't exist. Oh, okay. Yonkey. Everywhere is Yankee go home. It was graffiti everywhere. Yonkey, and then they spelled wrong. H-O-M.

And Yankee was Y-N-Q-Q-U-I-U-I. I spelled like Spanish. So the school was on base? No. No, it was out of town. You'd take a bus. Matter of fact, it was really stupid. They actually had a failed coup, about I think two weeks before the invasion.

One of Noriega, Manuel Noriega's top guys, generals successfully took him down. And the loyalist to Noriega came to his rescue and the general surrendered. But that day, the country was on high alert. and we're going home on the bus back to get dropped off to my base and other bases. And the Panamanian PDF, Pan Amadian Defense Force guys

were in a machine gun nest just, and I'm telling you, all these high school kids, I knew enough to just shut up. They opened the window and started taunting these guys and these guys had, what are the, PKK?

Yeah, some kind of PKK. It was pointed right ass, and they were like looking at us and I'm, man, they didn't shoot us, but that was one of those things When you're young, you do stupid things, apparently. Yeah, so I was right there. It was a crazy time.

It was good, though. I'm actually glad. And this is, oh, I was to tease Jocko, which is, I don't think he appreciates it, but I was like, Jocko, I saw war before you. Technically, it's true. Jock was like, yeah, whatever. So I've seen one tenth of one percent or whatever. But you were what, 10 years old?

I was 13, 12. Okay, that's actually. You actually had more of an understanding. If you were a little bit younger, you know, you might not really get it. But you had enough understanding to realize that you were in danger and stuff. Yeah, so for 24 hours, we were all alone, pitch dark. Basically, I was just on the ground for three days. And my mom filled up the bathtub with water.

And I thought I was going to die. Really, you know, you're 12 years old. I could think a lot. But that changed my life, actually just to have that experience. It was actually a good thing. You were on base that was secured by U.S. forces. It was becoming secured. It was the only base in Panama that was half Panamanian.

Across the street down the hill was the Panaman officers. So it was a joint effort in my situation. Most of the U.S. kids were like Howard. They were in Rodman. They were over these hills. They heard gunshots and, you know, concussions, whatever. But they didn't see anything. It might have seen a few tracers.

But, yeah, I was right in the middle. Being around to hit your house? Like we are on top of the hill. So a few things chipped atop of our roof And for sure If you walk by a window Someone could shoot you So we didn't do that of course

And we just drank out of a bathtub And it was just you and your mom And your sister? My mom And your dad was at work My dad was he was working He must have been freaked out Our neighbor We had giant yards between these houses

Nice houses actually And the neighbor She was all by herself So it was just okay She ran over Across this I'd say 100 yards, the yards were really wide, and she's knocking on our door, she came in.

So, actually, we had a fourth. It was a young lady. To me, it was an old lady. Yeah, about 25. Yeah. To me, that was an old lady. The oldest person you've ever seen in your life. She came.

Did your dad leave any weapons at the house? Dang. I'd been like, dad, come on. I would have strapped up and. Yeah, go get some. Not really, but yeah, my dad was, yeah, it was just a sudden thing. It was short notice, and he was, yeah.

But it happened around, I don't know, 11, before midnight. 1135 or something. I thought it was firecrackers first. And then just shaking and flashes everywhere. Just chaotic. And then did you finish out that school year? So that goes down in December.

It got quelled pretty quickly. Yeah. I'd say three days of, two days of intense. First day was the most. Second was serious. Third was okay. And the next week was just like a mop-up operations. So still for 10 days it was dangerous.

But the first one of my teachers from my junior high got killed and was just out in the street the wrong time. And he was living in town, actually. That's why he was in the wrong place, wrong time. And I don't know how, yeah, he got shot. I'm not sure by who, but the wrong place, wrong time. So, yeah, right in the middle of it. Yeah. We used to go down to Panama to do jungle training.

It was awesome. But it was after, I mean, this is in the 90s. So, but we went in and we'd love. Look around try and find you know where some of these battles took place and and it was interesting So then when you you see did you finish out that school year halfway through? We moved to San Diego okay I go to high school down here and then you went down now when you were down there Did you start did you start getting interested in martial arts when you were getting picked on? I was doing karate Karate now I did wrestling for one year when I was eight years old my dad made me do it

And I didn't like it at the time But I'm really glad he made me You do it because that helped me a lot in fights. It's a weird thing with kids. Like, you know that it's good that he made you do it. But if he made you do it even more, maybe you would just have hated it. High school, I'd be like, I'm not good to wrestle. High school, I wanted to wrestle.

So it's good. So then we got to San Diego, and now, and you also played football. Yes. Were you better at football or were you better at wrestling? Wrestling. I was a good tackler. I was one of the top one or two best tacklers, not the fastest guy. I had faster than average, but.

Yeah, yeah. Really my body's not made for sprinting as made for grabbing people did you start did you you you are a mutant Did you start did you was that so you what grade was it that you wrestled in for one year? Was that like sixth grade or something? Oh you said you were eight years old. Okay, so third year and nine years old maybe so now your freshman year in high school is the first year that you actually started wrestling Freshman I skipped 10th grade because I wanted to focus on weights and football mistake, but it's okay and then 11th and 12th and I was varsity 11 and 12 and I was the regional did that well

Without that much experience. I don't know why, but for me... Well, I do know why because you're you know you just joked about being like You know a mutant grappler, but you actually literally have like you were designed to grapple I'm serious man So yeah, so and that's proof right there is that you is that you you wrestled you know once when you were eight years old and then you wrestled in freshman year and then I mean, there's kids that wrestle their whole lives that you're wrestling against. Yes.

And how did you do? I was, say, South Bay Regional Champion. I took third in county. I wasn't that good until 1920. For some reason, the submission art, Samba and Jiu-Jitsu. Those guys who would beat me in high school. Wait, you said 1920? 19-20 or 20.

Around that time, I got athletic and coordinated. I was kind of clumsy when I was 17. So there was kids that beat me. One guy beat me almost tech followed me, which means almost got 15 to 2 army or whatever. He was from my local high school. And I faced him in a tournament after high school, and I pinned him in 30 seconds.

So I don't know why I just took off. So you were like a late bloomer. And also you have this natural gift that you hadn't started to hone yet. And once you started to hone it, it just started to make sense. It was the submission that got me really interested. And just the rules.

And I don't know why that made sense. It was Samba. right so on was your introduction to submission i did jiu jih Tzu yes sambo is for those who don't know it's it's a Russian grappling style I would roughly compare it maybe in the middle of judo and jiu-s-s because they

stress a little more wrestling than judo and a little more submissions it's in the middle let's say yeah so I'd say it's it's sort of like in the middle of wrestling judo and jihitsu like you gotta put all three of them together it's like a collage because you wear a jacket

jacket shorts but you wear shorts and shoes and Jews. Yeah. Which is literally a combination of everything. You can go for footlocks, whereas in judo you can't go for foot logs. You can go for a single leg, double leg, where in judo you can't do that. So, yeah. Where did you hear about Samba?

Was my off-season coach named Jerry Matsumoto down in my high school, Hilltop High School in Chula Vista here in San Diego. And the off-season he was teaching this thing called Sambo. This is right before UFC won. So, and what's that stuff with the jacket? And what's this? And they said, oh, this is a submission. What is this submission? It was like 17.

Oh, you can get your arm broken. I'm like, and I told myself, and this is one of the, not few, several things, Jock and myself share we have in common. I told myself at age 17, even though I was uncoordinated, I said, that's scary. And now I have to do it. I got to do it now. If I don't do it now, I'll feel ashamed of myself. So I did it for some reason that guys that could beat me in Greco or freestyle I could submit them I don't know why I have no idea why

But it was making sense for me and then I went to Jitsu at Fabio Santos And and you were you you say like you were naturally good at Samba and you were and you you were like the national champion two time national champion in Samba right? Yeah, it's amateur at that time It wasn't really super popular but that that prepared me and the American rules of SOMbo because the athletic commission and the union was no twisting submissions no chokes so straight footlock

straight in lock and straight arm lock so you get good those three submissions That's the only three submissions Back then yes Because those were the days Where they thought Oh like Steven Sagall

grabs your neck and breaks it You'll die Oh you get choked you die Yeah like by the way That ruins war movies When I see the guy sneak it behind The guy with the machine gun Chokes him and the guy's like done for the movie

I'm like he's gonna wake up in 10 seconds You So kind of, I have to kind of separate myself at that moment. But, but yeah, at that time, right at the time, you'll see one to PLO. So it's important for people to know that there's a key element here in SOMBO is that the foot lock, the straight foot lock, and the straight knee lock was one, was the two of the three submissions you were allowed to do. Roger. And you were good at him. The, the, when I studied, Higgs would tell you this.

Oh, and our good friends, Jeff Higgs. I came in there and I actually was submitting guys but they didn't like that because I was the Samba kid Oh, that's right, that's right you're the Samba kid for a while Yeah, for a while I used to get people in bear hugs from the guard and make them tap I was a mean little bastard I just cry

I made a well I don't think he's listening But if he is forgive me but his name was John He was this isn't coach for Fabio and He was blue belt four stripes I came in I got him and full guard bear hug He tapped he screamed And then he went he was crying He didn't pop my back from the guard

That's all I knew So well I learned to pass again you have some you have some mutated structure that is meant more for Grappling than anything It's very odd and and and and I remember you told me you would like arm lock people In their guard you'd be in their guard and you would arm lock them Yeah they'd reach for under hook I'd lock my arms

And posture They'd say I didn't know you can arm lock someone from the guard. And I'm like, well, the arm's there. And they're like, well, I was taught that's wrong. And, well, eventually I learned that that's not the best way to do it. Yeah. And so then was it UFC one where you said, oh, Jiu-Jitsu?

What's going on with that? Yeah, because that was the time when chokeholds were, like, lethal. Like, you're going to die. Well, you realize, not really. You know, the second USC, no one died, third U.S. And chokeholds actually work. And nowadays, people will, you know, can sometimes say, oh, Jitsu is

not the most, it's really, it's a base, it's a prerequisite you have to have to even be competitive. Right. So, yeah, very effective, very effective. And of course, the sport has evolved technically over the years. If you look at

technology and technique are kind of similar because they develop over time. The technique of boxing now is different in the 80s, and that's different from the 50s. Football looks different now. Then back then jitza is the same thing Yeah, right? All kinds of things happening right now that

No one even envisioned back in 1995 and it compounds Faster right like if you watch how fast technology's gotten Has improved if you watch the jihitsu curve it's like the new moves You know back when we when we started there'd be like a new move It would be like oh my god, this is a crazy that this could someone came up with something and now there's you know Some Blue Belt tonight came up with like a sick variation of a move and and that's just the way it works So it's like everyone's better. I started eight months people I don't know maybe one yet maybe six months before you and So you for sure had already joined this time

But the umapata was a brand new move and if someone did that a tournament I was like oh look he's doing a brand new move yeah and then would look at take the VHS Yeah, cam quarters and look at it was like that was a highlight that was like the Barambolo or you know Now it's leg locks, of course. So was it, so was it the UFC that when you watch the UFC, you're like, I got to find a jihitsu gym and you open up the yellow pages or whatever? No one knows about yellow pages. What's that?

Yeah, no. I remember Fabio used to have, Fabio had an ad in the San Diego theater. That's like, he was like this. That's where I remember. The Fabio Santos ad and the San Diego reader, I remember seeing that. But it was Higgs that brought me down. Yeah. Because Higgs had been trained in there for a while.

So, you, you, you. I mean, you were good, fast. Right? Sometimes, like, I'll think, man, I'm really faltering here. Nothing's happening. And then next month, I realize I'm twice as good as I was. Yeah. And I'll go, what happened?

And then I feel like I'm losing ground. I think that's because you're learning. Sometimes you learn a little bit, but because there's something new, might be better. You actually go down in performance. Yeah. Because you don't have that down yet. Yeah.

And then, of course, you get it. down and the higher level of technique now you're up to hear I explain that the business a lot like businesses want to implement a new process and I'm like you have to tell the people that out of the gate you're gonna get less efficient with you implement a new process you're gonna get less efficient then once you master the new process you'll get more efficient it's the same thing what you did to you start implementing a new move you're gonna get worse and then once you master the move where you get good at the move then you'll start

getting better again did we go real fast yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna lend to you an analogy for that. That's very simple. I heard nowadays kids don't even learn cursive now. I heard that. I don't know. But you learn printing. And a few years you're writing your name. They put glitter on it. You give it to your mom. She puts another fridge. It's a little kid writing. But after a few years, you're writing your name and you could write. And say, we're going to learn cursive now. Well, your cursive looks way more jacked up than you're printing, but it's a more advanced form of writing. So you get that down. And then back then, by the way, there's no typing in high school. That was junior or it was college.

So in college, you learn typing. Initially, you're just like, you're slower than you would write. But eventually we learn typing. So your performance declines until you get a more advanced thing down in your head. All of a sudden, you can type 50 words, 60 words a minute. That's a more advanced, more efficient way of typing or writing. So that's a good way I express that idea to people who may not be in business. That's simple way like that.

Makes sense. That does make sense. I'm trying to think. An analogy. So you and I, I don't know why, but you and I immediately started training together like super hard all the time. You were one of the guys, like I mentioned,

if I say that's kind of scary, oh, I gotta do it. Also if I say it would suck to be mounted, all on purpose start mounted, and if we were out of bounds, most people, Jocko is one of the few guys, that if we were out of bounds and I have a good position on him, he will insist we start in the, and I'll argue to actually like, no, put your arm back where it was

because I actually want to have it reset to what's harder for me. So if I go to bounds, I think that's why. And the first time I saw you, Higgs, he's like, I have a friend named Jocko, man, he gets involved. He's just kind of like, man, you'll know. You'll see him, you'll know.

And I'm like, okay. So I knew you were coming in, and you walked in and you were like, Roger, yeah. And the first day, you got arm locked and no emotion just sit like that turn, and just walk and just... So I was like, hey, it's pretty hardcore, you know. Yeah, yeah.

But you were training hard. You were training hard. I was training hard too. That's why. Yeah, I remember, I just remember, like, almost immediately I was training with you a lot. Maybe it's because we were, I don't know. We would spend three hours after Saturday

talking on the mat about things and techniques. Like, literally, two hours of open mat, Three hours of just more technique every sat that's Saturday of course times were different back then yeah, but I was going crazy Thinking about the fact and there's and so I don't know if this is how you guys can tell me If this is insecurity or what But I like Higgs came to my house and Higgs was now Higgs had just got his purple belt and he came to my house and he well he called me and he's like hey, you want to train He's okay, you want to trade and I said yeah, you want to trade and I said yeah I said yeah, come on over, man.

And you know, I was bigger than Higgs, and he was long, and his legs go up to, like, his sternum. So his legs, he's like, he's a mutant too. And triangle. Yeah, and so he came over, and we went in the grass across the street from the house. And he just worked me over. And I was like, and so, again, you tell me if this is insecurity,

but I was like, I never want to have another man be able to impose his will on me like that. That is not the way I want to go through. way to look at things so by the time so I literally went down to Fabio's the next day and and signed up and he's like you want to try a class and I was like no I just want to sign up unlimited classes 165 bucks a month here take my money train and I remember oh I remember you couldn't go immediately into the advanced class you had to just take the beginners class and I don't know if I talked to him or I told him like hey I can't get here

until later sometimes can I just there you go and he and he and he was was pretty cool you know he just said yeah and then and so those times where you know I just wanted to learn as much as I possibly possibly possibly could because I didn't want to be at the disposal of some other human beings will yeah it's an awful feeling there's some people that don't like that feeling until they avoid it completely yeah that's actually the more common that's the more common reaction the more common reaction is oh I don't like that situation because I I get dominated and I have to submit to another man or woman, by the way. I have to submit to this other man or woman and I hate that.

So I'm just never going to get in this situation. The problem is, as we know in life, you can't always avoid those situations and those situations can present themselves and you can't do anything about it. So you and I just started training like maniacs. Yeah. And the thing I was thinking about. For some reason, even in the beginning, we did no ghee. We would take our geese off sometimes. Which we would get you all that sometimes.

Yeah. And for me, luckily, I would teach guys in the teams, and I would always wear no ghee. I would just always wear a t-shirt and cammy pants. That was like the standard. I was like, if you want to train, yeah, t-shirt, cammy pants, barefoot. And so I was almost immediately training no ghee because I was training at the team and I would be training guys, even though we weren't highly skilled. But I was at least understanding that there were some nuanced differences because I didn't have the wrestling background that you had.

Yeah. That's good because, you know, if you rely upon the uniform only, and that's only how you train, no uniform, how are you going to be? Yeah. Yeah. So then the other big thing here is, I mean, we were competing a lot back then. Yeah.

We were competing a lot. And those old school jiu jih T tournaments were freaking awesome back in the day. They were super, they were crazy. They were crazy. My match, that Armenian guy, and there was a riot. Oh, it was, it was crazy. It was crazy. It was 500 Brazilians and like 20 Armenian guys.

And by the way, my coach, he had a thing with that coach, and I'm not going to say what he said, but it wasn't very nice. The guy actually took me down to zero and hide me in the foot, almost broke my foot. But I escaped and I want 18 to do. The guy was tough, but I beat him. And Fabia's coaching me. Oh, sorry. He's coaching me.

And, of course, the other coach is in Armenian. I don't speak Armenian. But for some reason, that guy is not an official jiu-jitsu guy, more like a judo, sombo, whatever, variant. And right afterwards. Yeah. And because of that, there was a riot. Jiu-Jitsu.

Jiu-Jitsu. And it was because my man. Hundreds of hundreds of people chanting jiu-jitsu and the judeau the the the Armenian guys were but they were actually they were great dudes Yeah, they were hard friends and like it was like the caro Parisian crew There's all those guys they were wicked hard fighters they were tough as hell and they were and they were Connected to judo Jean LaBelle yes that's right yeah so it was like total respect but I had respect yeah there was respect I think there the disrespect came More from the Brazilian side and Well, I mean, we were certainly associated with the Brazilians because we had a Brazilian coach and we were doing Brazilian jihitsu.

But, yeah, there was some, there was some mayhem. But that guy, he's on Caro. Yeah. And actually, he's like a mathematician now. Yeah. Like, I'm not going to fight anymore. I'm a doctorate. You know, just, you find some strange people on the sport.

I mean, in a good way. That guy, he broke two people's feet. This is back in the day when it was a little more hardcore. It was, it was, it was. it was it was disrespectful to to tap to a footlock like you know like oh you can't tap to that you know those don't work almost

that's not technically you shouldn't tap to that so guys would just get their foot broken by these you know because again look at judo Gene LeBelle I mean his his repertoire of super strong of submissions is freaking crazy and brutal and so all those guys were coming in with that whole game plus they're

whatever sombo background they had and there were some good good competitions and it was total mayhem but so I was thinking like the Machado Invitational which I think you won that like four or five times you were the champion the Gracie National you won that a bunch of times yeah you were there that's right yeah the grappler's quest back in the day that's still going to yes grappler's quest the group remember the grappling games remember neutral grounds that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's the last one I had. The last one I had was neutral grounds. Neutral grounds. That was in the hood. It was in a cage. It was in the cage. Someone didn't finish the fence where, uh, correctly. It cut you. It was, I mean, it was straight.

Caged masks like WWE style. It was in the back in the hood, in this backyard. And there's like 200 guys who are just like, yeah, yowing. No one's throwing anything, but almost. I'm sorry, it may like like environment. But not punches that day and those Rico Rodriguez was there he's I I I did you could be yeah yeah I went against Rico Rodriguez Yeah I lost um you didn't you go against well him as well yeah yeah well let's see though Oh my good yeah I had two matches higgs also we both won he beat a hickson's guy

Oh yeah he was he was like a beast he was he was one of the that that was an incredible match because higgs was kind of getting you know higgs was was a lot smaller than him well maybe a lot but he was 30 or 40 pounds smaller than him Higgs has a little bit he's he's very confident but he's the more reserved yeah and Bo is a more physically intimidating looking yeah is a co-tee just yeah and Higgs just and they went at it and then Higgs got him in a triangle triangle yeah that was nice and who yeah you would didn't you have a guy that like wouldn't give up was that you oh no that was caro the same guy

against Rico and he was out unconscious but not just unconscious where you wake up like 30 seconds later unconscious unconscious from a grappling match his coach is like oh he's fine he's okay he's like oh he's fine he's like he's not moving he's not moving and I'm like I think I see his chest moving also like he's not dead I'm like are you sure he's I don't know he's fine he's trying to pick him the guy's like limp they got so tough didn't tap to that head arm but match was over yeah he had him head arm for like two minutes oh that Armenian guy was savage and that was when we were Rodriguez weighed 300 pounds yes 300 pounds I was 171 yeah I used to be 170 I faced him I got to his back four times and he finally got me and the head and arm

and 300 pounds is no joke he didn't get me in the head and arm you and I remember you and I on this on this like random piece of carpet rolled out in an alley before the fight and we're and you and me are just drilling because we knew the head and arm was his move and so you're just going head and arm and I'm getting out of it getting out of it getting out of it but he got me in a um was it gie yes it was he had spandex on though yeah he had he had spandex bottoms at a ghee top and he he got me in a in an Ezekiel from my half card yeah yeah which you never you know you know the learning phases of Jiu jitsu when you go I didn't know that would

work that was one of those for me I was like I didn't know that would work I didn't think it would work like you can't put an Ezekiel on me my half card and then it worked Yeah. By the way, just aside, there's a tangent, we're walking to the venue. We parked two blocks down, and Jocco had these sunglasses on. And there was these two ghetto dogs, like, whirr, and these were pissed off dogs. They were barking, and Jocco went like this, and he stared the dog, and the dogs went,

like that. It's funny because I'm like 19, you're probably like 25. And the dogs, they were real confident, and you gave them that devil stare, and they kind of backed up. They were still barking, but they needed to. There was a fence between us, but yeah, first time I'd seen a man just punked two dogs with his eyeballs. It was awesome. Kind of motivating me for the match.

Actually, you know what was pretty cool? So this is one of my favorite Dean Lester stories. You were going against, again, it was one of these crazy tournaments, total mayhem. And so we're talking, this is like 90, I don't know, 97, 98, something like that. Total mayhem. And you would always get, well, you'd always be in the finals

or the semifinals, you know, on your way to the finals, because you would win every tournament. It was freaking ridiculous. Well, not everyone, but yeah. Okay, not everyone, but most of them. I would do the absolute, too, so I usually win my division and the absolute. Yeah, no, it was awesome.

And I would do my best, which wouldn't be as good as Dean. And so anyways, Dean's in this match, and he's going against this Brazilian kid, and they're going at it, and the Brazilian guy's real super fiery, right? Super fiery. Yeah, Brazilian guy. Slaping the mat.

And he's going crazy. And, you know, it's really, it's head touching, but it's like a head slap. You can hear the slaps happen. And you can see this guy's going all crazy. And he goes after Dean, like super hard trying to get a takedown. And they fly across the mat and he's pushing. And Dean's sprawling boom, and they go way out into the stands. And I'm the side, like in his corner.

And so I just see the both of them disappear into the crowd. And if a crowd's going crazy and it gets quiet And the guy comes out and he's all going crazy He's all on fire And he's all, ah He's like, come on, let's go And he goes the middle of the mat He smacks the mat like drunk

He gets down his knees and starts slamming the mat Like he's just so crazy And then I look at and then I look back at the crowd Where the hole was where they came And Dean comes walking out He looks totally completely Literally he looks like the Terminator He comes walking out

No expression on his face comes walking out to the middle of mat and then the arm locked the guy like 20 seconds later and just the guy was Ii yeah that was pretty awesome that was good and then uh in in that time period right is when you do the ADCC trials actually we both did ADCC trials in 2003 well 2002 I won the trials and then I went up in Brazil 2001 I went to Abu Dhabi I went to Abu Dhabi it competed I didn't win that year oh okay I was a purple belt oh we we did uh we did several big trial tournaments some that didn't materialize into actual events we did several of these things I'll be the ballifiers that I think that was the first

one 2001 2002 yeah it was here in San Diego right yeah and that like nice health club yeah the hotel and and and and uh Kenny Flea Florian was there. Kenny Florian was there, and he was super cool. And I went against Big Country. Roy Big Country Nelson.

And I think he would beat me like four to two or something. Yeah. And that you had just be wars. I had this All-American wrestler, I don't know, good wrestling, Nate Ducharmé, and he slammed my knee. I found out later that he does it on purpose.

He lets you get the back, and he dives. and spears your knee in the ground and it damages your knee actually. So I finished the choke. I registered impact, I registered like that. That kind of hurt,

but I didn't let go to the choke and he tapped. And I was like, my knee doesn't feel correct. And my knee just rolled up like this like double the size. And I put two knee sleeves over it. And I'm like,

I don't know why. That somehow focused me. I didn't go, oh, I'm hurt. Oh, this is my excuse to quit. I went, you know, it would be really cool. This is something I did 2003. Psychologically, you like being the underdog kind of.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have less pressure. I think most people like to be the favorite. I like to be the one that's like, I can't win. And so I had the guy from, what's his name, from Hensel Graces, from New York, and he attacked my leg. Yeah, I went after it. And he had me straight in the in the lock,

and the ref is about to stop. I looked at the ref and I went like this. And he's shaking his legs. He played like college ball. The guy was a real athletic. Patterson, Jamal Patterson. He was tough. And I got to his back, choked him.

And I see you in the court, like, You're like, this evil grin just like shines through the crowd. And then the layman was in the finals, and I won by points. That one, went to Abu Dhabi. It went to Brazil. That's also when, that's also when Eddie Bravo was at the same trials. He won the trials too. Yeah.

So that was, that was kind of a big deal. And Dave Terrell won his. And Dave Terrell won his. Yeah. And the one who won the heavyweight was some country boy. I don't know. I forget his name. Yeah.

So we went out of Brazil. and Eddie Eddie took third but he beat a Horde of Grace. Yeah. That was a, that,

that got more attention than me winning the absolute yeah. That was a big thing. Not for some reason. Yeah, the reason is a Twitter.

And, but yeah, you went and won the absolutes, which is, you know, it's freaking insane that you won the absolute. Jocko trained me so hard.

Remember the seven ups on the stairs? Seven ups? These, damn seven, I'm like, oh, seven ups. But seven ups is not like what it sounds. Like,

Popping. That's seven times up the stairs and under what 20 seconds. If you don't get 20 seconds, you do it again. And I'm like That's my invitation of Jocko Jocko would do this evil need be seal tactic on me where Dean jump up hit the bar. I'm like okay keep going keep going one two of it. I'm like when are we gonna stop? I don't know Jocko has some fictitious number in his head I have no idea, but if I slow down it'd be like 99, 100 101. I'd slow down 100 99. I'm like, I'm losing my ground. I can't stop now.

And the stairs was like, yeah, up and down seven times. It wasn't a long stairway, no, maybe 30, but it was like, you have to be up and down in less than 30 seconds, or you have to do it X amount of times. And I got in good shape for that. Yeah, then there was beams up in the top floor. This one we were at city boxing in downtown San Diego. There was beams and pipes. And like the beams were 14 inches taller than the pipes up that you had to jump. I'd be like on the beam beam beam beam pipe pipe you when he was getting exhausted I'd be like pipe because there's a little bit lower

But yeah you were in sick shape and we were just grab that that time So at that time I was going to college Yeah, so I all I had to do I I wasn't I was detached from the seal teams yeah from 2000 2003 and all I was doing was going to college and All we did was train jiu jitsu actually and we would just train and just train more and then just train after that. Jocko's such a maniac. He's one of the few guys I'd say hey, want to train six in the morning tomorrow. He'll be there at 5.30 because why not? Why be late? You know, about 9 o'clock of night? Yeah, sure. I don't know. He'll do it, no problem.

Jocko helped me cut weight one time. Remember this? I was fighting at 185 for the belt the king of the cage and two weeks before the fight. This is, of course, a fight now. Chaco was like, Dean, you look kind of muscular, like are you know, say muscular, you said, you're looking a little beefy, heavy? Like, what's up? And I go, well, you know, fat. Yeah, probably you did. You look a little heavy, buddy. And I went,

you go, how much do you weigh? I go, I'm 218. And you went, Dean, what weight are you fighting in in two weeks? I went 185. And a jockey went, really. Don't you understand that 33 pounds is like an issue? And I oh, well, my friend, this is

me. I was 24, 25. My friend Tony's like, oh yeah, you lie down in the bathtub a full of Ebson salt and you lose 20 pounds like in an hour. No problem. I'm like, okay. Jock was like, did you try it yet? I'm like, no. Dean, you mother lazy. Get some Epsom salt.

Try it tonight. Let me know. I'm like, oh, I'm all confident. I go get Ebson salt. I get this alcohol like rubbing alcohol. You pour on the bath. 30 minutes later, I get out. I lost like half a pound.

I'm like not 20 half a pound I go I call jaco drugs like what happened and I'm like or input or something something like some military like report yes reconsant whatever field report so so I'm like Chaco how much did you lose you mother you know like I think I was like three quarters of I think I I think I exaggerated three quarters yeah it was like Like, you can weather, maybe at the beach by my house, is where you still both, I don't know, or Long Branch. Yeah.

And I'm at six in the morning and I go there and Jock was like, you know, next two weeks you could have like a can of tuna per day and we're going to run. And three hours, Jocker ran it with me, by the way. Most people don't do that. Like, they'll watch you run. He ran me. We ran all around Point Loma. By the way, we're going to the beach and I'm like, oh, we're going to run on the beach.

Jocker just over there'll see a wall. So run to the beach. getting kind of close to water. And in the water, I'm like, okay. So I go in the water. Jocco swimming on these cliffs. And I'm like, I'm trying to catch up with them. I'm not as sealed.

I can swim. I'm a strong swim, but I'm not. He had like flippers. You didn't have flippers. I thought he did it though. He's out on the surf going around on these cliffs. I'm like, I've done that before. But he's ahead of me.

I'm like tired. I'm like, this sucks because I'm already not eating. And whatever. Plus, I was younger. So, you know, when you're younger, things suck more. Then when you get older, you realize it didn't. suck that bad because you're older you have this experience so from a fair hour all the

the way the mission beach across the bridge we swam through that well not a very clean river just through the san Diego river we've found through there a three hour run not every day but maybe for two weeks all the time and i i lost 18 pounds and then of course i lost 15 pounds of water and i made the weight that was terrible that was hard but uh that was hard and i fought a tough guy too so yeah it was anyone yeah yeah it was a good day you know you know you know it was a good day you know you know You know what? I gotta go back to the, uh, when you won ADCC in Brazil, because that was freaking amazing. Uh, so there's a couple things. Number one, one of the guys that you faced was a guy named Pada Pano.

Padoano, yeah. Yeah. And, and I was reading. So I couldn't go down because I was in college at the time, and it was right in final exams. I could, I literally could not go down with you. And so you were down there by yourself in Brazil, in enemy territory. Yeah. And you're down there.

And so I'm reading. There's something called the. It's the underground. It's the it's the MM is the mixed martial arts.com. It's the u.g which also has the OG So it's an old forum which still exists to this day. It used to be called submission fighting and actually You and I when I was on deployment like way back then you and I would communicate we didn't have email So you and I would communicate on submission fighting.com in the threads and The struggle. Yeah, yeah and so I'm reading so what they're doing is someone is translating like some kind of automatic translation and they're posting what it's saying and so it was like a literal the Americans in trouble yeah no it was a literal it was a literal translation and so paid apano means cloth foot is that right yeah but it's actually it's a cartoon character yeah yeah well this guy paid apano was a guy that our instructor Fabio he's unbeatable he he he's because paid apano was this massive guy and he was a sick blackbell in jih Tudu and he's like yeah this guy will never be beaten because he's so massive and he's so massive and he's so he's

Good at J-Jit-2. No one could score a point on him, actually. He was just a dominator and how is anyone going to beat somebody that's that big and that skilled and so Dean so I'm reading I'm sitting in the parking lot of of Home Depot for some reason and the match is going on and I'm reading and I'm refreshing it on my phone and It's popping up and it's slow. It's like back in the day, right? Reception is bad and I'm reading it and I remember this thing. It says that it says the cloth foot has a choke in deep the American must have a tube to his lungs because he is not tapping and I was like yes Dean and then you beat him and man you beat and and then you went on a one that was a that was a big deal man yeah he beat I mean he beat Vardum that day and then well in their own division and but he cheated in that match oh by way Peta Pado is the only guy he wouldn't shake my hand you not talking smack he just wasn't a very gracious you know

By the way, you can tell a lot about a person how they conduct themselves when they win and also how they lose. By the way, he was smashing me when the points didn't count. But he was 40 pounds heavier than me. So the big guy, 6 foot 6, 6, 7. He's 6 foot 6? Yeah, big guy. Dang. It's 260, 70 pounds, yeah.

And, but he won against Redoom, but he cheated. I saw the tape and he put his arm on the, he was in a submission out of bounds. He cheated whenever he started. So the crowd was angry. He was in a submission about to get tapped. He wasn't in. He was on the verge of it being locked in. But he kind of moved his arms, so he started in a more favorable position.

So that was the one match where the Brazilians were kind of cheering for me. Otherwise, no, they were cheering for the other Brazilian. So when I won, people were kind of like happy. So who was the first match against him? The first match was Nate Markport. Nate Markort. And I got a bit. Tough guy.

Yeah, awesome. God, that was brutal. Yeah. And then. Salo Hibero. And then Salo. And Salo was already five times. world champion at the time. I was a brown belt.

So it was kind of, for me, it was weird. I had less pressure in the harder division where I was the last guy. I was number 16 of the world. I don't know why it just... Like I said, you like to be the underdog. Yeah, I don't know. I wish I could describe

what happened that day because if I could replicate that, I don't know what happened. Eric Paulson said, he said Dean had a golden ore around him I saw it I don't see oras yet but I'm working there one day I want to see

like that gift And so these guys I mean Salos like you said Five time war I mean he's just one of the best In his brother Gianji In history both of them Unbelievable jiu jitsu players

And then you And then it was paid a Pano And then in the finals It was Kakareo It was Kakareko Alej de Fehera and he He's a beast Yeah he's

known for, he actually was a good sport, but he had the reputation that Tokino has today. He hurt people. He actually footlocked Jeanji that day. He guilty in Comptito that day, and he beat Fabrice Verduim, also, just by coincidence, the same guy, 8-0-50. And then Fabrizo beat Pedipano in the third, fourth match. So that was kind of like, you know,

it's payback, you know, so he won. So it was a good day. And the finals, I was told this guy has the best guilty in the world and the best footlocks in Brazil for sure and he's the best wrestler in Brazil so I'm like I thought about like who is guilt oh be careful is guilty I thought to myself I'm not trying to act courageous nothing like that but I said to myself that would really suck and I go I that kind of maybe I could feel how his guilty is you know and so I grabbed his legs and he went for it and I was like let me see how it is yeah not that I wanted yeah kind of I wanted to escape it it it's kind of weird and he went to play with the fire and I was yeah I was in it and he

really I hear the crowd yelling and I I hear the crowd get silent because he has me so tight, not over my ears, but I'm getting choked, really. Somehow, I guess I'm slightly resistant to submissions I heard. And I, and I'm not saying, I can see the light of the tunnel. And he started getting a little tired. And as soon as... And you had your elbow on his knee.

Yeah, yeah, that was technically, that was the reason, but I have maybe a resistant neck or something. So he eventually got tired to let go and I saw his eyes and he was just, I got him. I knew at that moment. And then we started in the middle. and I went for a footlock and he was real calm. Footlock. And that 50-50, we didn't call it 50-50.

I just said, let's try it. And I did it. And his eyes, you can see, he doesn't know what's going on. And he went, aye, tap. Well, more of a macho. Aye. I got him.

And then, of course, I actually couldn't believe it at the moment because Abu Dhabi is, well, it's the equivalent of the Olympics for our sport. And there are Olympic wrestlers in Abu Dhabi. There's Samba guys. There's Olympic judo. guys the best jitza guys are in this and it's a whole world's invited and the winner gets 40 gs baby

so there's no other turn of that pays that much i was 27 day that was a lot of money man you're like oh yeah yeah it is geez yeah and uh it's funny uh so i'm i'm number 16 but i have no margarita came down you keep saying you're number 16 you were the number 16 seed yeah exactly and and that's how you ended up being one But so I'm warming up. I have no coach until Margarita came down for the last three matches. I'm shadow boxing. Everyone's wrestling with their coach.

I'm just like shadow boxing. It looks like a weirder. By the way, I didn't think I was going to begin the tournament, so I wore my Brazilian tidies. Because I don't usually fight in or compete in those. I usually wear surf trunks. But I'm like, in case I'm invited, I put my sweatpants over these. So I'm in my speed, basically speedos,

wore me up, shadow boxing all by myself. And I look up and there's just, only Brazilian girls looking down at me. Like, and I'm like, oh damn. And one girl goes, hey, come here and I should have done it, but you know, this girl could have been on the cover of magazine. And I want to, she said, hey, how are you doing? And Portuguese was not that good back then.

I was like, oh, I'm good, how are you? And she said, in Portuguese, oh, you're not Brazilian, are you? And I said, no. And she went, and she turned her back and walked. She called me over and then turned me away, it's jacked up. So I'm like, all right, let's turn. Stop, stop, focus, focus. And then I got through this.

And then at this moment, I don't know why this is, but the champion gets like 95% of the attention. The guy that took second is equal level of me. Maybe he could beat me a different day. I must admit, I'm not going to say, I can never lose to that guy. He's really good. But I have a line.

A thousand people are waiting to meet me and take pictures with me. So I'm still in my Brazilian tides, you know? Hot pants. You know, guys, hey, what's up? Hey, girls, I'm, hey. kids and you know and take a picture and as after half hour I see this girl like eight people down going like hi remember me hi and I'm like I'm like mental note like so she she waited like an hour to meet me and she finally with an ear shot she's like in Portuguese

remember me hi I knew you could do it she's saying this Portuguese and I'm like yeah whatever so she gets up to me and I'm sure the average guy would have would have caved into this but I skipped her just like that and uh she had this little puppy dog look at this hurt eyes on her That was like you were the true champion Your moral victory of that day. It was awesome So the uh when when you were doing that I remember and when you getting ready for that first of all we trained Freaking hard like just crazy and I remember Sarge since to push you as hard as we

possibly could such a better wrestler than me he would do the takedowns with you and then as soon as you guys would hit the mat I would jump on top of you that way and get you just as tired as we get you But also, I didn't think about it this way, but man, a lot of times when you and I would be training, like, we would just sit there and try and footlock each other for half an hour. I mean, it would be like, which is weird because now that's very common to see. No one was really doing that actually. Yeah, no one was doing it back then. And now you see tournaments, and that's what the tournament is. It's just a bunch of people trying to footlock each other.

Yeah. And they'll sit there, heel, hook, footlock. And when we were doing it, that's why, like, let's, like, let's. Like when I look back on I was like no one was doing that you would never see anyone sit there and trade footlocks and heel hooks for 20 minutes as we're we're actually rolling trying to submit each other, but we're just trading and trading and trading and And that gave you such an advantage when you know you knew moves you had techniques that were just no one even understood the position and Now you hear John Donahar talking about it, you know and I heard John Donaheher talking about the fact that you know, he teaches his guys to get people in a position that the other person isn't comfortable with right and that's a that's what you were doing

Way way back then was hey, I'm gonna take you to somewhere that you do not understand what's happening and you will be confused and I'm gonna crush you and On top of that, you know, your natural like I said a mutant skills and all that and it just turns into Well, I guess it turns into world championship is what it turns into. That was a good day You know, you know the fifth it became what I won with the 50-50. I didn't have a name for that position. I was reading Portuguese from some respectable

older guys, I won't say their names, but people I looked up to were saying basically, this is a disaster, this Greengo means foreigner. It's not a slur. It just means foreign. The damn foreigner is coming down here. This is not jujitsu. What the hell?

Repeated by different people. And I'm like, okay, well, you know, I looked at my gold medal and my trophy and I'm like, I don't feel so bad. actually you know but that three months later I hear about a position called the 50 50 I'm like I want to see it and I go oh now it's accepted it's a Brazilian move now yeah also the move I got Saloan no one was doing that knee lock now now it's commonplace crowbar I forget if it was you or me that came up with the idea but you

for sure came with the name crowbar I heard in Russia and they're doing crowbar in with a cage I'm like man they're spit around so like and the Man, all these kind of things. You know what? Maybe someone's done it before me, but you brought a legit actual military gas mask on the treadmill. You're like, Dean put this on. Like, what the hell?

And I just, I just, I look like from a damn horror movie. Like, what they're going? And so now everyone's wearing gas masks. But these aren't real gas masks. This is an actual, I'm running. I was like, if you slow down, we're hiding in another 20 minutes. I'm like, okay. I did it.

I didn't complain. But yeah. We were like doing stuff before most people. It was good times. Yeah, that was pretty awesome. And also at this whole time period, you were also fighting MMA. And you were King of the Cage. You fought a bunch of fights in King of the Cage.

You were the Middleweight champion in King of the Cage. And then that's when King of the Cage was sort of the feeder organization for Pride, which was when Pride was the equivalent of the UFC. Until UFC bottom. Yeah. You know, it was very, very powerful. popular the fights were awesome they had the best fighters Well, I can't say they had the best fighters because they had they had equivalent fighters of

I think they were one notch at that time I think there were one notch above you some of them but some of them came to the UFC and didn't do as well as well Yeah, but some guys went to pride yeah, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, they work both ways different rules. I'll say it's equivalent. I won't say it's better It was definitely it was definitely so you were in the feeder organization for pride and then and then you went to pride but King of the Cage was third was considered the third heart In the world. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't even think, yeah, underneath that was just completely unknown things. And you and I got lucky because, uh, well, I got lucky because I was hanging out with you

and we would go to Japan and we saw some pretty, pretty crazy fights in Japan too. We, my goodness, the stories we have. Remember that, remember that time, uh, we were at this pool hall, like, it's late night, like, 1.30, I don't know, whatever it was, midnight maybe. We're playing pool and there's this, uh, there's this, uh, this, uh, this one, you know, it's a, VIP area. It's an actual pool lounge. And there's this big Japanese

bodyguard there. It's on the music and stuff. And let's try to get in there. He's like, I guess that means no, you can't come in. And we're just saying hoist. That's when he lost to Yoshita. He's come by with a bunch of let's say connected

Japanese friends. And he sees us, he goes, hey, Dean Chagga gets us in there. And it's like a karaoke lounge. And it was Lionel Richie's voice coach was seeming there do you really yeah it was just nuts and and um dude i met Lionel richie's voice coach what's up hell yeah well at that time was that we saw so seeing those big fights in japan when we saw no gira fight bob sap so no gira was no gear is 100 or sorry 230 pounds maybe 200 50 yeah bob sap's 350 pounds he beat the living crying

out of no Gira for however long seven minutes yeah and then no Gira got him in an arm lock that was gonna be the arms it was in the national stadium there's like 120,000 people on the crowd had kettle drums do you know what those are echo you know the kettle drum is just big giant drums and there was a troop of Japanese drum players so when this thing kicked off these guys are surrounding the top of the stadium with kettle drums do do do To do do it was on fire and Dean and I were there, you know and we flew actually flew over with with hoists for those things And Bergam was there, I think yeah, that's right man, it was just I think Bergen was in in the walkout

Entourage or something you know he was somewhere else, but guys were or parachuting in like remember that? Oh, yeah It was a in nookie. He's like he has a camera. He's like I'm at 20,000 feet and he's like I'm falling and he's like and They come down and they land like in the ring. It was pretty crazy. It was crazy. It was crazy And then you ended up for you know Obviously since you were the King of the K champion you ended up going to pride you had some sick fights in pride You fought well you beat Soji Yeah and he was a he was like a warrior Yeah, and then you had a beast of a fight against Arona

I also faced the this and then I well I didn't get to fight Paula Filo because he got his he got his leg broken But I also fought a Mars Sula from Russia sounds like some of the things sound like I'm making them up but he legitimately became a hitman for the Russian something, the syndicate in Russia. He killed a couple politicians and they arrested him because apparently you can't do that. And is that confirmed? He died in prison of cancer and in Russia if you kill a few politicians, they just go, we're not going to take care of your cancer too much.

He just let him rot away. He died like two years ago. So he was in prison. That guy, you've seen him before, his nose was just probably broken. That guy became a hitman. And so I fought that guy. And Arona was, that was a hard match. That wasn't, I'll take ownership with the situation.

I'm not making excuses, but explanation-wise, it was not, I was not my normal self for that fight. But it was a hard fight. I lost by decision. It was good. It was good. 100,000 people in the crowd. It was awesome.

You walked out. And San Diego, my friend Tim, Tim Comas. Tim Ford. The guy in the mall. Different ones. Tim Comas. Tim Comas now. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Back then, it was different. Yeah, yeah, it's true. He made, I walked into ones of songs. Yeah, San Diego. And Hans was there. It was good. It was good times. Brent was there.

And then, and then eventually you get picked up by UFC. Yeah. I transferred at the right time. Yeah. 2005, six, I just transferred. It was a perfect time to transfer, actually. Had some good scraps. I was actually in overseas now because I was back at a team for a while.

So I was kind of out of the, uh, out of the fight game for a little bit. It was still training. I trained when I was with you, but you had a bunch of fights in UFC. By the way, make sure that I don't forget to tell the Kill Jocko story. I've got to tell that story later.

We'll just tell it right now. Well, I'll see it. But, okay, so I was not, maybe I was in pride at the time. Jocko went to, I don't know, Afghan. You were somewhere. I think it was my first deployment to Iraq. For a couple months.

And... Well, then it was, maybe I was just doing a workup or something. Maybe if you... I'm not sure. But you were gone and, um, you come back and my mom had this,

uh, medication. I had acne and I don't take this. It was some kind of antibiotic. Helped it, but I didn't know. It made me really weak and, uh, took my endurance away. This is actually true. This is not an excuse.

This is an excuse. That's fine. Sure. So Jocco comes back and I'm not really feeling like, and Chaco's like, and Jock was like, okay. Jock was like, literally he's angry is like you're lazy mother

I'm in the desert I'm doing this and you're you're sitting on your ass here and standing you're doing nothing and I kick your ass and I'm like uh and I'm just like I'm just like I'm like ashamed of myself because because and then you go away for like a month somewhere you're gone and I'm like and I but that medication we're at 10 days and I stopped day I feel strong again I'm like oh I understand now so I'm training I'm like mother man the guy comes back I can't wait for this I made a CD

and it's kill Jock And it was had like corn and metallic he's like and so jock came and I'm like hey jog go and I put this he in and we train and That was my day. I guess I think I was like talking shit dude like you My feelings were hurt And here's what sucks for me is so if if both of us are on point I'm getting I'm catching a beat down if both of us are bringing our A game. I'm catching a beat down If Dean's bringing his A game and I'm bringing my wheat game I'm catching a can beat down. If I'm bringing my

full A game and Dean's having a horrible day, I can do like barely okay. So it's like, you have your days, brother. You have your days. The day, the really good days that I have are very few. I have to, I have to earn them. I'll put it to you that way. I have to earn them. And then, so you do UFC. You do decent UFC. You have some tough fights.

I was, I was top three, four ranked in my division. My only two losses by decision was Nate Mark Quar and Yushinokami. they both after that fight, fought Ennis and Silver. So I was two times right there fighting for the belt. I was top five, top four. No, I don't care.

Top five. But I fought to fight in Silver and I lost both those matches. But the four I won. And my first fight was Elisa Sakara, who was from Italy. He's really tough fighter. He's probably the fastest hands.

And actually, I figured this out later. I was the underdog, but they were actually trying to feed me to him. He was going to fight Chuck Lid after you beat me. Oh, you were a stepping stone? Well, supposedly. Yeah, supposed to be. And they were already planning, like, he's going to fight Chuck Lidale

because he has probably, he has faster hands. Probably Chuck has a really good chin, better wrestling. But Sakara has faster hands, better boxing. So they're going to have them fight after. That's what I heard. But that day, I got in the same triangle, I got Shogia Kiran. But he topped, Shoggi Akira went to sleep. So both my debuts won by the same move.

And against tough guys. So then I fought another Japanese opponent. I fought a Bulgarian Olympic race. I fought Nate Marquart, Yusina Kami, and I fought Jeremy Horn. So six fights in USC. So my career has been focused on jiu-jitsu. More no-gi is because when you do M-M-A, you don't have a ghee or a kimono. So it's kind of wasting your time if you're training in that aspect and you don't have a

guy on, how to grab the belt, how to do this, you're kind of wasting your time. So, yeah, I've distributed my time between mixed martial arts and grappling, jiu-jitsu. And you weren't done either because you went back in, 2011 you went back and well 2009 was that 2009 was in spain we were in Barcelona Spain Barcelona and yeah I was just well I'm coming out by so surgery wasn't my year yeah yeah and those were some close matches I mean I was thinking about it double overtime yeah yeah and we next year we both won our divisions yeah gold medal so it was a first match in the absolute and he won it was

double overtime zero zero and well yeah the judges we were looking at sure like I don't And they raised his hands. Wait, who, did he have an Ouma Pot on you? Yeah, I think that's why he won, because I had him in two footlocks. Oh, that's right. You had him in two footlocks. Oh, that's right. But the Ombuds are more jih Tzu-ish.

I think that's why. Yeah. And then, yeah, 2011, I don't know why. Probably was a harder tournament, but I'm not saying, it wasn't easy. The golden aura came back. I don't know why. I don't know why. I don't, I have no idea why, but I, yeah, I just showed up and,

First match, it was hard match, actually. My friend Augusto Ferrari from Sao Paulo, Brazil, very tough guy. I thought that I'm top three or four-seated, right? I was wrong. He was, he was like three, and I was number 14. Because now I'm 35, and he's like 25. Get this old guy out of here. Knock him out of this thing.

I won, I'm like, that was one of the lowest rink guys. That was a hard match by points. The second guy was the European champion. I followed him like two minutes. And then we have one day to rest, and I'm facing Rodolfo Favier, who's... Total beast. No one could beat this guy, and he's like 21, and I'm 35. And this...

It was in Nautingham, England. I can't do that accent, damn it. But Nautingham, England, we were there. And at the hotel, I popped my rib. I didn't want to even know my ribs popped. During the match? During the match with a Polish guy, Erotic, Turk, the European champion. He tried to follow me.

And I turned out of it, I popped my rib, and I got his heel. And I'm like, my rib is unsat. It's not up to standards, you know. So I'm like, it hurts right now and I'm warm. So I sat down, I waited for everyone to leave the arena, so they wouldn't see me like limping home to the hotel. So I didn't want to see, you know, appear strong when you're weak. I didn't appear weak when you're strong.

So I was, let's say, weak at that moment. I don't want people to see that. So I got kind of walked real slow back to hotel. And there's guys downstairs. Hey, Dean, you're facing Ronald Fierre tomorrow. I'm like, yeah. Do you know how good that guy is? And I'm like, yeah, I heard, no, do you actually understand

what you're getting yourself into? I'm like, okay, just stop it, man. Just get the fuck, get away from you. And I'm like, trying to get in my head. Kind of motivated me, actually. I like that feeling like, oh, they think I'm losing. Like I said, you like to be an underdog, man. Next day, I showed up.

Oh, and I saw Rodolf Vierre, he was competing with spandex on. I'm like, oh, yeah, because it's harder to slip out of leg locks. Next day, no shirt and no spaniards. So someone told him something. So I faced him. And, yeah, he's, you know, he's like the future. this boy awesome great sport as well but I got him in about I think four minutes I got his heel in the 411 which no one was doing at that moment so my 50 50 and 411 was two of my

nine lives of innovation that after I did that people I started doing it yeah yeah of course but when I did it no one understood what was going on so it was like a it was like a secret weapon just a secret weapon yeah and then jean cease also he beat jeanji I took him not and mounted him so beat someone like jean jean jean So he says also super high level. And, but see, mental, mental games, I'm older, I'm 10 years older than Joao. So I went to, now at the time I speak good Portuguese.

So, and in his corner was Leo Zino Vieira. And Leo knows, Mike, he knows a full lock guy. So, so I'm like, and I heard that Joviot has good foot locks and whatever. So I'm kind of talking like to him. I'm like, hey, but I put my pe, that key. I'm saying, my foot's right here, come on. And I'm wiggling in my feet, like in his armpit, like, go for it and he's like as he goes i don't think so man and then lee was like no no but i can see before

the match like he's not he's not cocky but i can see he has a little pride i can just tell him he's younger than me so i'm like i'm playing that that game i'm like let him play on my game you know he has good full locks but that's my forte let's say so eventually i'm like hey man it's right here i heard you have good foot i was too much he went for my foot and then so you goaded him into Doing that? It's like sciops, right? See, the thing is like, right? When you get older, you got to use those little tricks, you know, sometimes.

Wait, so you did that thing where when they go for your foot, that opens up your foot. It's like, you don't punch me. I'll punch you back, but you get the first punch. But I have to be confident I can take a punch, right? Well, I'm somewhat confident that I can resist a leg lock or counter in time and it all worked. It's funny because I'm sitting here laughing at that, but you do that to me. Yeah, me. And after like.

No, you don't fall for it, though. Yeah, but then like, I don't, I don't, you don't fall for it, though. Yeah. Yeah. but then like I will. Yeah, eventually. Like, I'll be like, I can get this and I'll just go for it. And then you'll get you'll get greed.

Yeah, exactly. I get greed. That's Jacques' sin. Greed. Went back again in 2013. 13. That took silver to Jean-A. He won that year.

He won that year. How did he win? I went for, and I talked to referees afterwards, it wasn't their fault. I went for a leg of lock and he was that exact moment to sweep me. I did it wrong, though. I got greedy that time. He had the arm position. I went for the wrong move.

Technically, if the referee's new, I was going for leg lock, it's not a sweep. But when I was up, I'm down by points. By one point, I haven't been a triangle, and he's really strong. He's flexing his lad. I'm like, I have 30 seconds. I haven't been locked in triangle.

But as long as I was on the opposite side, I'm like, you know what? He's going to muscle this out, win by one point. So I open up my full guard from the bottom, turn to my stomach, he got my back. So he actually won fours, fours. So you're trying to create something? Yeah, because otherwise I can,

mentally be like, you know what? A little thought raised through your mind. You know, I know I'm going to lose, but I can always say I would have submitted them. Like, you know, but I'm going to lose. The only chance I have, really, unless I have another two minutes, then it's different. So I had to take a chance. It's a one and ten chance, and it didn't pay off. It took silver.

I was really upset about taking silver, but in the end, Abu Dhabi, silver's not too bad, right? No. No. You're second best in the entire world. That's pretty good. Three time gold, one time silver. And then you did the absolute that year, too. did right yeah that's right yeah so that's one of my favorite matches that you've ever done

us against buchccecha you've lost buchessa it was tied up zero zero for nine minutes and he he's like 22 i'm 35 and no i'm 37 now and man it was how it was this weird because everyone's intimidated he's a very humble he's a beast but but people are he's really strong and athletic a very technical so i was like okay be careful this i'm like be careful i'm gonna give him my leg you know i just walk out Hopping after my leg and he's like what the hell and he grabbed my leg took me now. There's no points He had me in his two submissions I had three submissions. It was awesome at the end I took him down got mounted but my foot was stuck so it didn't count any upa which means shoulder roll in Portuguese over That's two points in Abu Dhabi

Opa means it actually it actually means shoulder roll or is that just I thought it's just a noise that That's Opa. Oh, okay Upa is is shoulder roll but if you talk to someone doesn't do Jitsu upa doesn't mean Shoulder roll. It means a jit to turn. Okay. So Upa means shoulder roll, yeah. Escape them out. So he did that, and he's the one

Dan Brazilian who has a wrestler bridge. Like, he bridged up, and it took me over, and I'm like, God damn, I know that move for like when it was 14 years old, but he took me over, and now he was in my full guard. He's up to zero, and he won like that. So it was a good match. That's a good match.

That's on YouTube. Go watch that match. If you want to just see... We were exhausted. Yeah, that is just a beast of a match. It's a beast of a match. I could not, I'm not saying, couldn't move my shoulders afterwards. And I'm like, this is going to suck. Yeah, it's weird because you had injuries along the way, obviously.

But like, you had, how many knee surgeries have you had? Two. And but those were when you were pretty young, right? Yeah. But I got older, it's like my shoulder or my bicep. You were there in the gym when my biceps snapped. Yeah. That was terrible.

Sparring. Yeah. Those two, by the way. What I go, this is done. Undisputed. Yeah. I disputed. Yeah, the guy was blocking with his elbow.

He's trying to knock me out. So I was like, oh, I'll knock you out. And I was going too out. I wasn't really warm yet. And I hit his elbow with my bicep and snapped. It's terrible. I'm like, I didn't know you could snap your bicep, but you can. Yes, you can.

Confirmed. Yeah. Double confirmed. Yeah. What do you do when you, when, like, when you got an injury, what's your philosophy around trying to get it to heal? Because people get injured during jihitsu, you know? Yeah.

It's difficult for me because, but I can try to make it as simple as possible. See, Jiu-Jitsu boxing, any kind of a confrontational thing, which you are an expert in in the military, but also in Jiu-Jitsu, I mean, even if it's not fun because you're getting smashed, you're not bored. You're not bored. So if you can't train J-Jitsu, me, now I know we're different. I personally don't like looking, well, myself in the mirror, I don't like that.

at all, but with weights, I get bored personally. I want to have someone trying to hurt, not hurt, and I won't get hurt, but that, at least I can be mentally immersed in the issue. So that makes it hard for me. So personally, I focus on other things like learning languages or traveling or doing seminars, things like that. How many languages do you speak? Everyone says, oh, do you speak seven languages? No, I speak three in the way that I can make jokes, I can argue, and I can spell,

I can write and I can read, Portuguese, Spanish, and English. French, I can have a conversation, but I'm not smooth. I have a big accent. I couldn't make jokes, and I couldn't effectively argue unless I want to sound like Borat.

Nice. I could do that. Maybe I would sound like, Croatian was Miracle Khorop's coach for like seven years, like survival, like, I want to go there. How are you?

Like, you know. So, three or four or five. Depends on your definition. Even German, I can kind of get around a little bit, but it's just on the street, asking for directions and stuff like that. But it's not good. So three, I guess three. I'll say three. Three solid.

Let's talk some jiu-jitsu philosophies. Giusez. Gee or no-gee? That's like saying, what do you like doing better? Long distance running versus sprinting or judo versus wrestling. Kickboxing and boxing. There's different sports. They're related.

They're similar. There's a lot of mechanical similarities. So O-Ghi is better for It does help you to get a tighter style But if you're wasting, not wasting, listen, yeah, yeah If you're going to be doing no-gi And I know some, I don't know if anyone watching knows The significance of this

A wrestler knows right away this is wrong This is a this is the gable grip This is the S grip, they're fine This is the BS grip It doesn't work A lot of world champions that only train They're all over a sleeve and belt They grab like this

because they're taught to rely upon the uniform. So if you rely upon the uniform and you don't have the uniform, now 80% of your tools are gone. So I think it's good to do both. It's normal to prefer one over the other. But don't discount. No ghee is more technical and faster in the transitions. Absolutely.

And the fact that you can slip out of something easier means that transition to the next move faster. But ghee has more options. I have many chokes I can do. can grab my own belt wrap it around your wrist you can't do that without gie so that's only so some people say some people say gie is more technical but i don't believe that it's more technical there might be i guess no i was going to say maybe there's more techniques but there's not there's it's equal i just think they're equal yeah and they're equal and technical because to hold someone

down with the gie is a lot easier you get someone to cross side with the gie like you're going to hold them down you get across side with someone with no gie it's a lot harder to hold them down because there's nothing to hold on to. Yeah. And so it makes it harder. That's why I think no ghee makes your offense better. Gee makes your defense because it's harder to slip out of things. If you're in submission with GE, it's hard to slip out of the, you know, you can get lucky.

It's really hard. You're not really going to slip out of things. Also, if you train with wrestling shoes, it's different. If you, hey, with the fatigues, it's different. Yeah. Train with the Marines or the team guys or I train the police, whatever. down in Brazil as well. I mean, they train, like, how they are on duty, you know?

So having someone with, you know, fatigues on, you still call them fatigues? No. Yeah, I used to just call them camis. Camys, that's cute. Sorry, dude, that's what I called them. Camys. Get your camis on, yeah. BDUs.

There we go, yeah. ACUs, BDUs. I don't know, we all, everyone I know, we just call them camis. Fatigues. Maybe it's cute to you. Polar, should a human being, pole guard in a fight no oh unless it's a controlled like u.c i pull guard and won but that's because there's one person right there and their forte is striking and um to the end of my towards the end of my

career people wouldn't fall for that they just get get the hell away from me but i've won a few fights where even one the guy was across side on top and he could have just got away from me but he proceeded to attack me and then i reversed and triangle armlocked it was uh change lees my friend now uh very tough guy, but he engaged my strength. So you could, same thing like Crocop, probably the most notorious high kick in history of MMA.

You know, he broke a lot of grounds with that. Average guy, you wouldn't say, just sort of left high kick the head. Yeah, it's not going to work that well. But it works, you do it really well. I wouldn't say it's a good strategy in a fight, but it's good to do because you get to a situation

where you're familiar, you have a hold, you have your legs and your arms engaging in the opponent, and you can work from there, but you have to have a good guard. You can't just, oh, I'm gonna sit on the bottom and be good. Oh, I'm gonna cross my feet and I'm fine. No, you get beat up in a fight.

So if you're good there, you can do it. It's not a generally thing I would recommend, though. Yeah. You know, I was just remembering that when you fought Nate Marquart in the UFC, that was what bummed me out about that is. I can hear Jackson going, do not throw a punch. So I pull guard and he's just like, stick to the game plan. So Greg Jackson, who is a really smart strategist.

Really smart. And I'm kind of like, you know, strategists. So it was like my strategy. I'm supposed to be cornering you and telling you what to do strategy-wise. And Greg Jackson is on the other side telling Nate what to do strategy-wise. And after the fight, I was even during the, well, that's what pissed me off was that during the fight, I didn't recognize quickly enough what was happening. And what was happening was was just not moving. So all he was doing was waiting for the referee stand-up. Yeah, that came. Exposed nothing because, you know, Nate was better on the feet.

He's also a blockbillard. He's good. He's awesome at Jitsu, but he didn't want to play around. Yeah, yeah. Why take the chance, right? The chance is there's a much higher percentage of him getting submitted than it is of him getting knocked out by you. Yeah. So he would just literally hold Dean and wait.

And I got strategically beat by Greg Jackson. Now, I love Greg Jackson. I think he's an awesome guy. I've hung out with him. He's a super guy. And, like, it bummed me out that he tactically, he strategically. beat me with that plan, which was, hey, we're just going to hold and we're going to wait for the referee stand up.

And it was something that we didn't train for. Yeah. We didn't train for it until later. Then we started training for like, okay, the other thing we had to start training for is someone that runs away from you, right? Because a lot of guys, they would just try and get away from you. That's all they wanted. Yeah.

And so that's very difficult to contend with. I wish that we could like have a fight like in an elevator or something. Yeah, yeah. In an old school, funny championships, D-List or champion. because you can't get away from me. Or like in a movie theater, like I'm sitting next to you, ready, go.

That's a, that's a, you know, I like that range. It's my style, you know what I'm saying? You were meant for that. You were meant for that. Do you,

what do you think about when you see all the footlocks? That's become such a huge focus of the game right now. I'm kind of like, I told you so. Because I, you know, you were in the middle of us.

Oh, yeah, for sure. I had about 10 years of, yeah, you're doing good with that somehow, but we don't, you know, that's wrong. Yeah. And, oh, by the way, Jerry Costa, who's Kid Peligro. Yeah.

He actually told me when I was blue, he goes, you know, Dean, this philoxic, it's kind of like tacky, basically. And when I won, he was there in Brazil when I won, he went, in English, he's Brazilian, but he was Lister, thank God you didn't listen to me in my bullshit, right?

He's awesome. He's a great guy. He is, he's awesome. But he, at the time, it was just, that was the way. and yeah, I do use some cliches, but some cliches make sense. When you know the rules, now you can break the rules. If you don't know the rules,

so I knew the rules, and you can get that way of doing that because no one else is doing that. And sometimes I break rules because I don't want to react in a way my opponent will predict so easily. So I'll do something wrong because it's unexpected. I'll do something that, well, those who don't do jiu-jitsu may not understand this, but I'm in your guard. I'll reach my arm down,

inside like I'm a white belt knowing you'll go for a triangle yeah and then you do I'm around your guard yeah no no I know you I wouldn't teach that to white belt they'll get caught in triangle see so I do things like that just because it's weird and maybe I'm weird too but yeah so that's my style a little bit but yeah leg locks yeah what do you think about some people talk about the self-defense techniques of jiu jit-to and or the lack of self-defense techniques for jih Tijuana now what I will say is this I've been in some self-defense classes that you're teaching and you don't focus it on a lot but occasionally you'll do yourself and I act almost every time you teach one of

those self-defense classes I pick something up I learn something okay well I I I it is true when we were young starting it was from born from the UFC the same way it was like oh hoist Gracie that was the main thing I'm Hickson Gracie you know valetudo and back then at least your coach could fire or been in fights and I'm not criticizing anyone but it's a martial art martial being what war confrontation I'm not saying you want to be in confrontational or be in fights but if you can't use jiu jitsu to defend yourself when it counts most and I don't know if it's not really a martial art anymore so yeah

on the other hand if you think that I've had people tell me this oh yeah I saw you're a good fight in you'll see But, you know, if you try to me, I poke your eyes. And I go, okay, thanks for letting me know, warning me, because that's kind of scary. I could poke their eyes, too. I don't tell them because a challenge argument. See, if you do one class one time, you know,

that's why you have to roll and do it. You know, for boxing, you need someone actually throwing punches at you and learn how to stop those and move away from the punches, just hitting a bag or brick not hit back, you know? So if anyone here listening is under 25, No one's going to understand what that means. So having this, putting yourself in hard situations, Jiu-Jitsu is all about problem-solving.

You know, you get to a situation, and you learn how to solve the problem, you get relaxed, and you learn to deal with this. I think that's really important to know how to relax, how to conserve your energy, as you said, knowing when to attack. There's sciops, there's mental tactics. There's, you know, you can tell a lot about a person how they fight.

You can see if they're dirty, if they take shortcuts, if they have a temper. You can see if they're patient. You can see if they're explosive. You can see if they lack sedesical. You can see a lot of things about somebody. If they're greedy. That's why I'm laughing.

Dean accuses me of being greedy. And he's right. I will get greedy with a move and I'll hang on to something that I shouldn't hang on to and I'll end up in a position that I shouldn't be in and then Dean will immediately start going greed.

Greed. You know, you know, well, you know, you can tell a lot about a person by how they fight and also how they handle the defeat and how they handle the victory. That's why I don't do it as an outward display, but every time I win against someone, I never run around and yelling, I check on them. And if I was lose, I shake my opponent's hand. I'm not, I'm not saying anything admiral about that, but that's something I always strive to be as someone that's respectful. And you can see, as you said, humility is taught.

And if people don't like to be humbled, they're probably not going to, It lasts very long doing a martial art, especially jiu-jitsu, because it's such a close and personal, like, you got owned. Like that arm, that arm belongs to jocco down. There's no debate. There's no debate. You just got tapped out. You can't lie in a fight.

You just got tapped out. Now with some other martial arts, it's like, well, you know, if this was a real fight, I would have done this or that, or if I would have punched him harder, I would have done something else. I would have done something different. It's like, you just got put in a position where this dude could have ripped your shoulder apart yeah or put you to sleep and killed you so so there's there's truth in jiu jitzu and that's why it's so humbling so I said you could tell a lot by

how someone is okay if we have a sport like okay golf or sprinting okay these are all sports and they're good but I don't know you can't how someone's swings at golf club I can't tell too much about the personality but if someone takes a punch and they look right back at you and they punch you back that person's there's something about that guy that's different than the average guy It turns away and runs away, okay? If someone tries to arm lock me and I relax and I escape, I time it correctly, okay, there's timing and there's technique. Of course, it makes some kind of sense.

I don't know. Back to the salt offense aspect. Yeah, I think you should be prepared for a worst-kiss scenario. And actually, for some weird reason, now that I can fight, I don't, no one even messes with me. I don't I'm not going on trying to pick pick fights with anyone but for some reason like no one even tries to fight me right now. I wonder why.

But you know what? You look like a mutant bro. You know, you know, in Japan, Russia, Brazil, whatever, Croatia, any country you can imagine I've been to, for some reason, and I'm by far like not a criminal or something like that, but for some reason you get a lot of these gangster,

mafia type guys that are fans and you end up hanging out with these guys happen to Russia I'm not glorifying anything but these guys you wouldn't even know they're gangsters these guys are powerful these are powerful guys you don't want to anger and also jaco himself navy city hey jaco what do you do i'm an investor um jaco were you in the navy yes i was in the navy jaco what did you do in the navy well i okay i was a seal you know whereas maybe a 19 year old kid who wants to be a seal will be like i'm gonna be you know he's gonna say it and a young fighter or someone who wants to be a fighter is going to be like yeah you i'm a u s i'm a u.sie fighter you get a really established fighter is not going to usually say i'm a fighter i i break people's arms and it's

not it's not used it that way also some of the richest people i know you wouldn't know the rich because but i've met girls i did a girls who they have one nice dress they're poor as hell but they look they look like the rich when they're going out they're trying really hard to look Rich, right? So it's interesting how when you understand things more, it's like, I don't think you have to, that sounds corny, prove it. I think you just, you have a higher understanding about that, the confrontational of human beings. I've talked about how when you roll with someone you've never rolled with before, you meet someone. And as soon as you make contact with them, as soon as you clinch up with them, you can tell what's up. You can kind of tell like, okay, this is going to be,

This guy knows what he's doing this person doesn't really know or they're okay or wait a second I'm not a hundred percent sure but I'm gonna find out pretty quickly remember Sasha Dude his aura was strong yeah Sasha was way strong Sasha is he looked like Shrek funny yeah yeah no he's a creation He's a beast bro if if you got Shrek and like took away his green skin but like a pale Polar bear white skin on it yeah it looks like a Shrek and he actually he wouldn't mind me saying this because no one really knows this name. He was Krokoop's main training partner and he didn't speak English. He speaks Spanish. He served us some prison time in Spain for a felony, let's say, okay? And so we were talking to

Spanish the whole time. And he came to San Diego visit. That's how you met him. And that guy, you know, the first time I trained with him at KroKopp's gym, Kroop's gym, Kroop has a gym under his house. It's a full gym with a cage. What do you think Sasha weighs? At 2.30, probably. Dude, he's got away more than that. His head. neck on the size of this table but he's five foot nine and ten you know and he has really good hands that guy's hardcore he was what's up with his head and his neck dude come on he's just he's like yeah he's a mute he's a great guy i don't think he and croakop or or in touch anymore and i'm not really for some reason me and co-hop don't talk so much anymore but uh he was the resident grappling guy slash

coach training partner so i arrive and i'm like i'm kind of like the new guy like he looked at me and there was that little bit of like okay this is the new guy and we trained and he got me in and well an arm lock behind the head and I'm like I'm not tapping this and I got it and I got him and I'm like I should have tapped that

because it was the first time you know I'm not gonna I don't want to and he's probably doing the same thing ended up being real good friends he's a better wrestler than me and a better boxer than me and he has good submissions but and his head

man yeah you hit it as part of me you hit his head can actually hurt your hand. I can actually. He won't even blink his eye. He's really confident guy. He's solid.

So you get some freaks like that, like a bowling ball, a fury. Yeah. What should beginners focus on in jiu-jitsu? Finding a good coach is imperative. Because you need some kind of direction. And in the end, or hopefully sooner than later, you start developing your own way,

even if it's a little variation of what your coach is saying. Maybe it doesn't have to be some champion. Someone you connect with and you can hear, not listen, you can hear what they're saying. Because someone, I might say something and Andra Geramao would say the same thing and a slight variation.

It will make sense. Maybe he says, over me and vice versa. I've had people both ways tell me, you know, something that you will say made more sense or something that someone else said, the same exact thing but said in a different way. So finding a coach is really important. Also, well, humility will be taught by itself.

So that goes without saying. I always tell people relax. There we go. Yeah, of course. Relax, of course. But that's difficult for a beginner because you don't want to relax. You want to win. That's why I try and make it so evident that that's the most important thing you should do.

You know, a lot of people also ask me like what schools? I live in Cleveland. I live in Toledo. What school should I go to? And I think one thing. that people should realize these days the days of like hey there's some shyster that's running around saying he's a black belt there's not a lot of those guys left anymore because the internet has just overtaken them and they just get called out so so I think if

you go to a place that has a website that lists the instructors names the instructors maybe show some of their competitive history they show their lineage of where They got their black belt from it's all good you can't put that stuff on the internet You can't say I got my my black belt from Hoyler Gracie and and not if you didn't and expect to have like expect to get away with that so do you know who Raphael Tori was he was a yeah yeah So that's back to the day they were like they were like yeah So he said I can he drive me out to the forest I have a kumitay to go to and they drove him out there and he got out with All the stuff went the forest and came back like three hours later with like a Trophy. It was like the next day. Yeah, or next in the like yeah, there were one that was Joe Rogan that was a Joe were Eddie Bravo and he's like yeah, I beat ten guys. I'm paraphrasing by the way. That guy was yeah, and he had fixed fights. It's like he fought a student. It was work. It was a work. It was about 15 years ago. He's in prison now. Yeah, so that guy this is an example of what it used to be like a guy could show up somewhere

Put a black belt on. Yeah, put a black belt on and be like yeah, I'm a black belt. I got my black belt in Brazil. I trained down there for four. A guy could show up somewhere. I put a black belt on. I got my black belt in Brazil. I trained down there for four years and I'm a black belt and I won this and I won that. He didn't win anything and he was just a liar But these days, I'm telling you if you find a if you find a place online It lists the instructors the instructors names are there you can Google the instructor's names you can see if they've every instructor has competed at some point right? I mean if someone's I would say 95% of instructors have done some competition at some point there may be a few very small percentage of instructors that have never competed. Yeah. I don't even know if that's possible. If you Google your instructor,

if your instructor is never competed, I would definitely be suspect. It's possible, but yeah. It's not likely. Competition, like I said, you can see how someone is and the truth, as you would say. One piece of advice I will give to people is, okay, I'm in Cleveland, whatever.

Or there's eight school, whatever, five. Go to each. school, don't say you live there. Say I'm visiting from, yeah, it's a, you're lying, but it's a white lie. Yeah, it's okay. God will forgive you. You say, hey, listen, I'm a white belt. I'm from Florida. I'm just passing through. I have no experience.

So, you're not getting the sales pitch. You know, the instructor's representative, not as real self as they're trying to press you, so you sign a contract. Sign that contract is okay, but if you believe in the instructor, you like what you're saying, you like the environment. Because then as a visitor, you're going to see, like, this person's not trying to sell me

something you can see how it actually are and if you hear what they're saying it's making sense to you and you you vibe with the energy or let's say the style or the personality of the of the instructor go to all five gyms and pay the day fee 20 30 bucks and just try it and then come back which one did you like best and then try it out and yes jesus is awesome because also you're not getting hit in the head yeah you know i love boxing boxing kit it's awesome i've done it at a high level I've fought world chat. I sparred Bonjowski. I've sparred Kowokop,

a sparred Jerome LeBanner, who's also one the best in history from France. That's why I lived in France for one month. That's how I learned so French. You do get hit, you get hurt, and you only have one brain. And it's not wrong, it's not bad. It's good to know everything,

a little bit of something. But you can actually spar in Jiu-Jitsu without getting... You can spar every day, basically, unless you're injured. Yeah. So the damage, if you do get, Unfortunately, like any sport is distributed around your body. Whereas in boxing, it's mostly your brain.

So it's okay. It's good to do all of this stuff. I mean, I like it all. Also, grappling in a self-defense scenario, I mean, even if it's more than one person, the fact that someone cannot easily put me on the ground, if two guys grab me, actually, like average guys, I could actually probably just win the fight, but punch it. But they're not going to take me down that easy.

Okay. If someone grabs me from the side, I can throw them. I can escape and I can leave. That's something you said. You know that sense. If I decide I don't want to fight and you can't restrain me, I can leave. Yeah. And nowadays, with all the lawsuits and stuff like that, I mean, just making a fist is ammunition

for a lawyer. That's a sign. Okay. Matter of fact, if you hit someone with an open palm, it's not, in many jurisdictions, it's not the same. If you restrain someone, if you had to, and I call it as a seminar, I say this is a drunk uncle technique. Because if you're at a wedding and your uncle's had too much drink and every family has one of these uncles usually.

So they're like, I understand what I'm saying. But you have to stop him. He's doing something that's really, let's say, not cool. He's hurting someone. You could hold him without hurting him. You can't do that with boxing. Boxing is awesome, but you're going to hurt someone or maybe not. And I know people who have hit people and fights.

The guy falls, hits his head and dies. I know people and they're in trouble and imagine your conscience how do you feel about that right so it's all good to know San Diego those surfers kids uh they knocked some kid out I heard about this and

the guy just not knocked him out it's exactly that knocked him in the head fell down hit his head and the crib died and and the dude you know went to prison that's that's whatever manslaughter or murder so whereas if he would have just done a double leg and choke the dude out which is more kind of more humiliating, I think, in a way.

Yeah. It's a... Where am I? Yeah. I'm on the beach somewhere. Yeah. That's a good way to do it. So you find a good school.

I always think that proximity is important, too. Of course. You know, get something close to your... If you pick a school that's an hour away, you're not going to go as often. Unless you're going to raise your time. Yeah. Well, I always, you know, we always picked schools that were... Back then, there were only two.

There were two in San Diego County. Yeah. There was like 80 or something. Yeah, there's a ton in San Diego. They're all over the place though. There's jujitsu schools everywhere. You know, I think we've done a pretty good job of being apolitical at our gym.

Of just, look, man, guess what? We love jujitsu. We love to train jiu-jitsu. We love to teach jiu-jitsu. We love to roll jiu-jitsu. If you fall into any of those categories, come and train, come and get it. And we don't, you know, that's just kind of our attitude.

Here's a quick story. Chaco, you would appreciate it. And I'm not going to say, his name because you know uh been training here for a few years nice nice guy actually came to me and said hey dean um i want you to know i really like training with you you're my coach um but i was i was invited by andra gavon for two months to come training with them for free you know said okay if i and i'm like yeah man it first of all most men wouldn't ask me of that they would just go and do it the fact you asked me i've had he's a friend of mine i'm like and he was like he was

very surprised he thought i was going to be mad or something But if he actually went and didn't say anything, it would be a little awkward, which has happened to us in the past. Like someone does something weird and it's a little bit, let's say not polite or not correct. But that was, would that be taking ownership of the problem in his mind? He actually told me up front or asked me. And I was like, yeah, right on.

It was good. And I wasn't lying either. It wasn't me being like fake jealous. I was like, hey, he's a friend. He's awesome. He's a champion. Go. I said, I don't want to lose you with a student.

And a friend, I don't want you come back. He's like, I'm coming back for sure. And so yeah, we're not political at all. Yeah, I always found that just like it's capitalistic system, in my opinion. It's like go train where you're going to get the best training. Evil capitalists. Yeah, evil capitalism. Like, oh, you, you, it's not, you train where you get the best training.

And now there's a level of loyalty, right? I mean, you don't just bail on people that you've trained with for a long time. And there's a level of loyalty. And that, that's not like some level that you hold. holding a gun to someone's head. It's like, man, you're been training with someone for a long time, you keep training with them and you have a relationship with them, you know?

And you don't just throw that out the window because you think someone else is gonna teach you a different move or something. It's not, that's not what I'm talking about. But it is a capitalistic system. So you go train where you're gonna get good training and that's the way I feel about it. Yeah, and I think if you're somewhat confident

in your ability, let's say the environment you create that you're a part of, it's not so much about threat for someone to go to go to. train someone else every once in a big deal that's why I'm like cool yeah go like it's fine because we know what we do here and other gyms it's like yeah right on let's let's let's change jih Tzu is my overall philosophy of all this stuff I had a female friend we're a pretty girl and we're about the same age maybe she was like one year old than me and her first real

way for I knew him too it wasn't real close to him he was very jealous and she I'm going to go out my girl new kid and she would She's a while with girlfriends. And he'd be mad and they'd make up, you know, fights. They broke up eventually a few years later. She actually dated a guy, and he was a cop. But he was like 28. So she was 22, 28-year-old guy.

A little more mature than the guy. She tried to pull the business with this guy. She said, I'm going to go up my girlfriends. He went, okay, sure, have a good time. And she's, okay. She's trying to play this game with him, actually. So it was equal back and four game with a previous relationship. And I know inside information that she was playing.

It was a game. Childage game. And she'd get ready and about to leave. And I said, hey, listen, you know, I like you. I like spending time with you. But I'm just saying I have my own expectations. And, you know, I don't really want to be with a girl who goes out all the time with her girlfriends.

I mean, have a good time. Go have a good time. She's like, wait. No, I don't want to go out. She didn't go out. So it's funny how he actually let her go out and she didn't go out. The guy said, no, I don't want you going out. She went out.

Of course. And I'm not saying how to manipulate it. But that's some psychology there. Yeah. Would there be a dichotomy there by chance? A dichotomy? I don't know. I felt like saying that word one time today.

I don't know why. You have to say dichotomy. I know. I say dichotomy a little too much. But there you go. He asked me and I said, by the way, I wasn't playing a game with him. He wasn't playing together. I was actually sincere.

I said, right on, man. Have a good time and do it. It's a great training partner, great camp. And I could see in his eyes, he was very happy about the response. So, yeah, I think that's taking owner. Of the situation was awesome. It was good for sure right on I think we've been going two hours man anything else Back when you were saying when you used to train with jaco at

Flavius and you said he was the kind where if you guys were would roll out of bounds and when you come back Inbound what are you saying he would want to reset like what I mean is What I mean is if I have let's say ex person, so and so and I have their arm on the ground, I have a Kimora halfway locked up, we were all out of bounds, and okay, you let go of it. Average person wants to start where you don't have the Kimor at all. Jago's like, you had two arms on my arm.

And I'm like, well, no, I'm like, no, it's okay, but no, I had my arm on the ground, you had two arms, and I'm like, okay, God damn it. We'll argue to have the worst situation. Most guys want to cheat kind of. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. So I was wondering, was Jock with that?

Because if you're super competitive in training, you'll pull that kind of stuff. Like, Chaco now will pull, he won't cheat like that, but Jocko is a little more stingy, selfish, greedy. Yeah. I don't think I ever had that experience where you'd want to stay. Or like if you'd be in an inferior position, we go out of bounds, you go against the cage or something. We restart and then you want to start like even Steve. I've never had the, but the thing is people do that all the time. All the time.

So I was wondering, oh, maybe Jocco was like that. Someone did it to me the other day. And I was like, oh, okay. Yeah. You know, I like, we got close to one. We got close to another people that were rolling. And I was in like a good position. I think I was actually a cross-sight.

And if I get a cross-line, you, you know, you're in trouble. It's going to suck, yeah. And so we, you know, got a little close to these other people. And, you know, like, their foot hit him or something. He's like, hold on. So we, like, we get a move. And then he, like, kneels down. Right.

And I was like, okay. Yeah, but here's the thing. Okay, so here's the thing. Let's say someone does that to you. What's the rule in your, I'm sure this is. You know you're actually mentally in their head now. Are you allowed to say, hey, no, I had the, no, I'm out. You can say that.

But that's the equivalent. They need to cheat. Yeah, that's the equivalent of trying to be like, no, you didn't have my arm all the way there. You're like, oh, you know, sir? That's cool. That's fine. We'll do it. We'll do it.

And by the way, stuff just escalated a little bit. So it's only mental notes. You can't say it. I don't know how many, you know these themes I have like, like, I had this Venezuela. I'm like, it's a goal for Venezuela. Like, I was just, I don't know, he's just crazy themes with Jocko. And we have this one, we have this cop. He has smack-talking themes as we have.

Oh, yeah. He does like characters where he'll be a Venezuelan soccer player. I'll be a Russian spitzner. Yeah. Russian here, better than American, man. I'll talk to shit with an accent. But he was like, I'll man on Jock, would be like, Chaco, if you want,

I'll just get up and you can, it's okay. It's all right, just tell me, Dean, and Jock will be like, you know, I did it other guys before. If you want me, like, yeah, thanks. I'm like, what? I said it, and now I'm like, I lost my mouth, bro.

I'm like, actually, they don't know I'm joking. Right. One of the best psychological ones. For you did on me was like when you acted like you didn't want to train, but you were actually fired up because I had I'd kind of gotten the best of you the day before I think it was a morning or something. Yeah, it was the morning and you're all like yeah, I don't know if well and you're like and I got to go soon and I was like and I'm thinking okay cool. I'll just get a quick round you know five minute round. No big deal and then he was all in the game. So he mount. Were you there that day? He mounted me for like 30 minutes and was torturing me double snow angel. Double snow angel the whole nine yards

Was it water torture? Chinese water torture with the drips of sweat in my ear That left to mark that one It's really jacked up though It's really jacked up that I'm a grown man I train jiu-jitsu on a regular basis I work out I eat good food

And yet you Dean Lister Can get a position on me that I can't get out of That's not cool, man. I don't like that. Hey, you have your days, too. By the way, you smack talk sometimes, too. You do the arresting, you do that to me sometimes, but that's a retaliation.

It's retaliatory. Look at the wall. There are, you have, you have three positions you can get on me and crush me. I have two. Cross side and mouth. Yes, and I have two. It's funny. I used to get the back, I could hold on you.

Now I really can't hold it. Yeah. Like you got out of that. But the, but I only have two. So I can only talk smack in two positions. Oh, and sprawl. Yeah, and sprawl, yeah. So.

Yeah, interesting element of your smack talking as well. Sometimes it'll transcend the mats. Like, you can go home and get, like, voicemails for you. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Chocco loves voice-mails. Yeah. So it's real interesting.

Very, yeah. Jocko, I'm sure sick of, I used to just spam his phone up with this. I send, like, videos or pictures or, pictures and oh man one of the funniest ones you're saying used to like he didn't do this like two days ago yeah yeah you mean he used to earlier today one of the funniest and this is just kind of unique i don't know why i'm like i'm just something weird today and i was feeling good though i'm like i'm gonna fuck with chaco's head and i'm like i gave a position and i would go 22.5 and chaka's like what the fuck and i'd take you down like 18 and just ran and jacca's like what the fuck are you doing

I'm like no comment I'm like 99.3 and it's gotta be something in your head like what's he doing right yeah yeah I I completely turned your your volume off and I put you on mute my head but that was what what accent is the most annoying for you um man I don't know I don't know what action is this way the Russian is pretty good the Russians Good mountain you come out of ski. Or Arnold. Damn it. Whatever. It's just, yeah, but yeah, he gets used to it.

It doesn't impact him too much sciops. Well, that's my siops is I try not to show any reaction whatsoever. That's actually funny. Dave Burke was watching. Good deal, Dave. Was watching Andy and I roll. And he afterwards, he was like, you know, it was cool to watch you roll because, first of all, like, it didn't even look like. anything I've been training, right?

Because you guys are just getting crazy. And he goes, and I saw, I saw, like, emotion, or I saw facial emotions on you. And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, you normally just look like the same all the time.

And then when you're training, when I was training, I was trained with Andy, and you always like, get some, you know, some faces, and trying to move and all that. And so, yeah, That's one of those things. That's your thing.

That's why I know that whatever I'm doing is micro successful when you increase your sense of urgency. Yeah. Because you're all normal face the whole time. Yeah. Normal face, normal face. Yeah, yeah. And then occasionally you make me scramble a little bit.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because you can't, that's the thing, you know, you're getting to a point where I can't just allow some little, some little situation to occur. Yeah. Because I can go to. It's like the event horizon on a black hole. Like, oh, if I let this.

It's done. Yeah, if I let this go, it's going to go. And the better you get, the more I got to pay attention to where that event arises to make sure I don't get myself in a situation where, you know, we got a problem on our hands. You want to hear Echo Charles story? So, yeah, I'd smack talk to you a little bit. Not the same extreme as Jocko, but last time we actually, I wasn't the last time maybe.

And I'm like, I didn't let you pass, but I was kind of like, waxed a day ago, like, oh, he's cross-sight. And I went, hey, Echo, here's my arm. And usually he's like, there's something wrong. Like, there's a trap. And usually there is a trap. I was just talking smack.

And Echo's like, oh, okay. I'll take that arm. And I'm like, God damn. He called my bullshit. You know? Because you know what I know. That's it. Because most guys go, there's something,

There's some reason he's giving me the arm, you know, and you were like, yeah, you're not just going to give me an arm. Like, there's a trap here. You're like, yeah, but I knew that. You know why? Because you were talking smack the whole time we were rolling, the whole time. Yeah. It's funny, too. It's funny that for anyone that's listening that thinks that Dean might be this big smack talker, the funny thing is that you only talk to your friends.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, a lot of times when you teach moves, you're like, this is a move that you would only do to someone that's a very good. friend of yours or someone that you hate. Yeah. Which is really kind of jacked up if you think about it. Like, oh, he doesn't mind grinding his elbow into my

temple or my ribs. Yeah, yeah. Because I'm his bro, allegedly. So, but he won't do it to someone he doesn't really know that well because that wouldn't be, you know, that's not cool. But if you, if he hated me or if he was friends with me, then he, then I'm going to get elbows to the ribs while he's trying to come here to me. That's awesome.

Yeah. But it, and really, when you really think about it, you're smack talking. It's never, ever, like, serious. Oh, yeah, yeah. And it's never, like, I'm the greatest, you show it's not that. It's all your Arnold impressions or your policeman or, you know, all these things. It's all, like, literally jokes, but the jokes are new kind of thing. They're not always that funny when it's occurring to you.

That's the genius of it, though. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. I love. When the tables turn, when the tables turn. You did the cop to me, too. If you're talking smack and I can get the tables to turn, oh, man, that's when I have no mercy. It's got to be shocking to some people

Either one of us when you and I are training You're going Roe! Look at the wall Don't look at the wall! And I'm like, oh, this is awesome The two you do it in like In reprisal to me

Are the cop You'll do that But in like revenge If you get it like All right sir I'm like God damn it He's like you're in the wrong neighborhood today I'm like God damn it I am

You know I want to get out of this neighborhood. It's not cool. And I also do the, I'll do it to, I'll start. I'll light the fire. I'll be like, oh, that's your guy here. I'll do like a bad Brazilian accent. And when you're on top, you're like, oh, oh, you do it back to me. I'm like, God damn it.

I don't like, you're right. I don't like how it feels like I want to reverse to where I was, not where I not right now. It's horrible. Those are your two. Yeah. Right on, man. Well, like I said, we've been going for a little over two hours. So, Dean, anything else?

Not just, hey, my bro's here, and everyone here, victory in me. You know, like Jocko said, I mean, there's been some rough times, and there's some unique things that I've been through. And, you know, that's how you know, you have real pros, a real team, stick by my side and, you know, help me, actually, you know, if I can help them as well, I know they know that. You know, my dad, he actually, you know, did not bring him easy. I'm not saying he was a real good dad, but he, you know,

I know it's not popular to say this nowadays, but it may be tough. I mean, you know, hey, you got to fight? Did you fight hard? Did you fight hard? Not, oh, poor, you know, we're going to make a complaint, you know. I'm not making some statement. I'm saying my dad was awesome. Oh, Marine.

Didn't you say that if you weren't a SEAL, you were a Marine that we were saying? Someone said that. I'd say there's a really good percentage that if I didn't join the SEAL teams, I would have gone in the Marine Corps. Yeah. I'd say that's a pretty good, pretty good assessment. Yeah, so my dad was kind of like how you raise Thor. Like, you know, you're going to do this. And yeah, you don't force Thor, but you kind of encourage him to do certain things.

And that's how my dad was. That's another little torture that you do with Thor with my son. What does that come from? I go, I don't know why I just go, hey, Thor, what's your favorite food? And he'll go like, oh, steak, I'll be, no. And then he attacks. I'll throw him down and I'll be like, it's pigies and a black. He's like, no, it's not.

Yes, it is. Say no, it's like, all right, think it's picking. No, say it, hey, hey, say it, hey, hey, he's on a blanket. And he'll go, pick it's on the wrong, say it's on a blanket. And he'll be like, no, okay, peg is something, say it right, and I'll, just torture him. Where did you, where does that come from? I have no idea. It's just something I thought of first.

I don't, I have no idea why. Just, hey, hey, like, I just think of themes, you know. Yeah, so, and then the vikers. Oh, he's like, all right, peg it? Oh, you said it correctly. So you earned the privilege of letting me let go of you right now. That's, you know, old brothers got to do that, you know? It's just the way it is.

That's how it is, man. That's how it is. One day, the pecking order will be reversed, though. Yeah, I know. The voice taller me now. I know. Well, I saw you, you went to take him down, whatever it was. Well, the first time he actually defended crap.

I'm like, God, day he's defending him the same. I went to double lake. I'm like, dude, he actually said it. I hit the hip, and I was like, oh, you had to turn it up the heat. Awesome, man. Well, Echo, it looks like I think everyone's going to. be training jiu-jitsu no jiu-jitsu everyone is gonna get on that path how can we get on that path stay on that path you know yeah whatever i'll let you like that yeah so jihs too if you do

gee which we recommend we recommend fully no gie right fully fully okay so geese absolutely get an origin gee get origin a hundred percent no you don't even have to drop around there's some ones that don't rip at all or something like that uh i don't know that they rip i've never seen witness one rip ever I've never witnessed one even come close to ripping or even having the sound of ripping sounds By the way, that's an investment because Jocko, how many geese have we gone through like a lot of keys? Yeah So I've ripped someone's ghee in a match by the way A lot of geese. Hey, awesome I think you taught me that anyway get origin gey that's the made all made in America from the thread from the cotton

All the way to the actual gey all made in America assemble up in America and also if you're gonna train no gey Yeah Which we also recommend, right? Yes, we do. You can get a rash guard Which is very good for training Jiu-Jitza with because it's compression And it doesn't get caught up toes, fingers

So you can get that Yeah, it's true The rash cards and they are also made 100% in America Yeah, so where we go is Where you go is online origin, mane.com It's in Maine. And yeah, you can get sweats, shirts, you know, lifestyle stuff.

A pair of real cool stuff. Did you say lifestyle stuff? I said it. Okay, we'll leave that one with you. It is lifestyle. Brad, Jiu-Jitsu transcends the mats once you find the way broadly. You see it in all things. You see what I'm saying?

I don't think I see the way in joggers. I'm just saying if you do Jiu-Jitsu, it's going to be your lifestyle is what I'm saying. You see what I'm saying. You see what I'm saying. Oh, yeah. There you go. Boom. Also supplements.

Okay. Jocco has supplements. It's good news, Jocka supplements. Oh, yeah. You had surgery on your shoulder. Same day I had surgery, by the way. Actually, thanks for, he gave me, he'll go with some gear. Oh, not gear.

What, joint warfare? Nutrition. Yes. Yeah, so that's going to help. You see, like, mine is way, remember, Kay, I did my other side too. My bite side. Yeah, yeah.

This one's healing way faster. Like, night and day, way crazy faster. Anyway, joint warfare. So supplements, Jocco has, thankfully. Joint warfare, glucoseamine conjoint. And, you know, grappling, we always kind of knew about that curcumin and then also jaco super krill oil which is good for your joints lubrication of the joints lubrication omega-3s whatnot other good benefits for that too

organs and you can get discipline yeah not just regular discipline but a supplement called discipline which is good for the pre-mission situation Dave Burke good deal to Dave he's on the discipline yeah A lot. So here's the thing about discipline. Okay, so I'm like, all right, that's not an everyday deal for me, discipline. Oh. So I'm like, oh, no, I'll take it.

You know, cool, I'm down. So I'm like, all right, so let me do the three scoops. Oh, you did. I hear, I heard some good things about the three scoops. So I did the three scoops. And here's the thing. I wasn't like tired or nothing like that. I wasn't like, oh, I need this specifically.

Let me just do the three scoops. Good for your brain. You decided to get on the program a little bit. Let me just do it. So I get them three scoops, boom. I go. And here's one thing that like I I wasn't necessarily trying to pay attention to him. I remember.

Am I sharp? I wasn't trying to really paying attention to that. I was just going to take it and be like, okay, what happens? This is what I noticed what stuck out to me, my patients. Like you know what? Patients increased in life. So like that's interesting. You might think that your patients would go down because you're all antipaterated.

But you don't get that way. But it's not, I mean, it's slightly caffeinated, microdosa caffeine. But it's not. No, like maybe, maybe caffeine might make you like that, maybe, but, because it's not that. I don't know what the mechanism is that made me patient, but I really, you know how like through the day you'll get, you know, it'll get tested. Things won't go your way or whatever. I felt like, oh, man, it's all good.

Like, man, I'm a problem solving. So there's something in there that's giving you emotional discipline. Yeah, like it's like making my mind, like solve problems rather than like be all. You know, you have little microreactions. I mean I'm not a bad behavior Whatever it felt like I could manage that like really good. It was like really easy to manage that. It's what it felt like on the three scoops. That's my three scoops. That's what happened Boom either way discipline this one this one mulk Oh, I'm on the milk is that biking or something like it's actually a word that I literally created

So we were testing to make something and I was like hey man this has to taste really good and And it has to have a great profile nutritionally. And when I finally got the sample where I wanted it and Pete and probably like, oh, yeah, it's so good. And they sent me my, it's like, oh, it's so good. And I'm thinking, well, it's not even a protein drink. It's something else. It's milk. It is, but it is.

So it's just a word. So it's not a protein drink, but it happens to have 22 grams of protein in one scoop. And taste like a for a fruit. As probiotics or something, too. Has probiotics. You know what I'm saying. It does have probiotics. You saw that.

And peanut butter chocolate is now also available. It's a big hit in my household. Brow mine, too. I'm like, Brad, it's fun. That's all I had to eat today, by the way. I had milk, triple milkshake, milk. I put some heavy cream in there, too. Not a lot.

It's a little bit. I know, Brad, it's super hardcore. And then, oh, I know, I had a worry bar too. But that's all I had today. I'm on a milk train. The milk train is deep. Oh, yeah. It's like a protein supplement and a dessert.

So if you're like, hey, I'm lifting, I'm rolling, I'm working out hard. You eat dinner, you can have a dessert. Boom, that's a protein supplement right there, too. Yeah. The peanut butter, not, okay, the mint is delicious. But let's face it, I've been drinking nothing but mint, mulk for whatever, however long it's been released for. So now all of a sudden I've got a little option.

Yeah, the new. Yeah. And it's new, you know how the new exciting one. It is new, but it's also just too. When you open, here's what, I'll tell you what, when you open up either one of those two and you smell them, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know things are about to get real good. Yeah. Yeah, either one of them. Can you help you some vanilla next time?

We're working vanilla. We're working. Yeah, I have some vanilla. You like vanilla for a real? Yeah. No kidding. Yeah, I made the vanilla. I gave him to my son.

He's two. by the way and I think he thought it was like a for real milk like a dessert and he's like oh he's all like crying for it I have a video I sent it to Pete for real it's funny by the way and that was vanilla it's not just going to be vanilla though gotta be vanilla something it's vanilla gorilla it is for real I there you go poop Pete was like are you serious and I was like yeah I mean he goes he was what do you mean I said put a white gorilla on there the vanilla gorilla it's come out watch I was I was would expect so much from John Corolla.

Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah, so we took a picture of you, Dean, and put you on your vanilla gorilla. Put the white. Boom. That makes sense. Hey, the immersion camp, by the way, that Dean will be at.

And I would say come, but if you didn't already sign up, you're not going to be there because it's sold out. No kidding. Official sold out. Official sold out. We're doing it next year. We'll try and get, you know,

come next year. We'll try and expand it a little bit, but it's sold out. Sorry. Next time. Yeah, but those are fun, man. I was probably talk about that with people very often because they want to go anyway it's good also good way to support and support yourself and represent boom three things

boom boom boom jock was a store called jaco store so you go to jocco store.com right makes right anyway this is where you can get the shirts the hoodies more rash guards more jaco representative you know kind of a little bit more direct message on that one but some good stuff if you want to represent uh yeah go there jocco store dot com truckers hats yeah that's good whatever flex fit hats flex fit the newvo snap back newvo chic that's what flex fit are newvo chic yeah uh hoodies legit hoodies and lightweight hoodies yeah the lightweight hoodies here's the thing bray you made me like stutter step on the lightweight hoodies so like i have them and but they're not like in the pipe yet oh okay but well good keep them out of the pipe

I want the I know they're going in the pipe I know there's people that there is people there are people A lot of support for the light wait Yeah everyone in Hawaii Sure Everyone in a bunch of people in Florida

Sure Yeah Texas sometimes too But yeah that's a good way to support And represent like I said Dracostor.com also good way to support Is to subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already Seems obvious I know But on iTunes and Stitcher

Seems real obvious since Google play Saying this for a hundred to three 37 episodes and I think I even say it seems obvious every single time Every time you say it seems obvious which makes it even more obvious Which makes yeah exactly right My point even more seems obvious because I say it all the time and That's just kind of how with podcasts you subscribe to the podcast That's how everyone knows that. Do you think that you when you say things a certain way and then didn't you just think that's the best way to say it? You're just gonna keep saying it

Yeah, yeah Don't fix it kind of thing Even though it kind of is broke because you look at me like it's broke every single time either way When you're signing up for podcasts don't forget that there's also the warrior kid podcast And you can subscribe to that one too. You can play it for your kids. There's some stories on there. There's some Q&A for Uncle Jake, which, you know, it's good.

Yeah, I like the stories. So, okay, those stories, I shorten it sometimes. But all those stories I tell my daughter before me. You know, you have bedtime stories. You know, now you have a story now. Yeah. You know how like, right? Do you make yourself the first person character?

Or do you say this app and Uncle Jake? No, I don't need. I actually don't even say Uncle Jake. So how do you? I make up different names. I make up different names. Yeah, yeah. You think she's buying that?

Yes. She's like, you rip this off from jockham, dude. She's like, Dad, come on. Where are you at? No, no, no, no. She knows. And here's the thing. Oh, you were running a race?

Oh, okay. No, I don't say me. No, I don't say me. I say, look, there's this girl. You owe me money. Yeah, kind of like a royalties, like scenario. But you say someone else who's running the race. You say it's a story about somebody.

Yeah. And here's the important thing. And hasn't she heard the word? your kid podcast? No. Oh, you, you evil. You holding out on her and you're taking my stories and now you're making it of your own. And one day she's going to listen to be like, oh, she stole the story from you, Daddy. What's bad is I didn't realize that was doing that, but technically that is what happened. That's cold-blooded. But either way, if they don't hear those stories on the podcast, for whatever reason, because you're holding out on them, you want to take credit,

or what have you, you have stories to tell. And you know they're going to come with that lesson. That's what I think is yet another element of value immense value of Warwicky Podcasts. We threw some of those stories on the on the YouTube channel. Yes. The Jockle podcast YouTube panel and there's a Warrior Kid podcast or a YouTube channel. So go to YouTube. Subscribe to that if you want to see Echoes legit videos, which apparently he has some in the hopper that he's going to be releasing. So we're looking forward to that as well, which should be good.

Yeah. Get him out there. I think so. So on it. Okay, on it.com slash jaco. This is where you can get your kettlebells. I got some heat for calling them artistic kettlebell. Actually, it wasn't heat. You called them that for seven months. What are you talking about? It wasn't heat. It was like an intrody or an offering. What's an artistic kettle? You know, like primal bells, the ones that look like. They have like faces on them. Oh, they have. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about from on it. Cycops is on them. Yeah, they're the gorilla. Here's the thing. Brad, they're, bro. Don't even teeth. Brother, they're the best. No, that's huge is canvas. Do you do. Do you do. You do. You do. You do. You do. You can't. I used to.

Yeah, okay. What, the boring round one? Yeah. So you get the, the werewolf one is way better. Anyway, they're cool and you get it from on it, so there's that. I got rings and there's a bunch of other cool workout stuff. Legit, catapose are awesome, yeah, good. Yeah.

But if they look awesome, that's even more awesome. Well, they saw the regular ones too, by the way, but that's a lot of information too on the website on it.com. Plus psychological warfare, psychological warfare, and we're working on the second album, but that's all the album but that's on iTunes if you want to hear me talking about when to get after it instead of being a little baby and succumbing to your own pathetic horrible laziness yeah cool yeah there's that yeah there's there's white tea yeah jock white tea in cans too by the way if you like tea in a can or if you just like the whole idea of holding the candy you know like you do with energy drinks or whatever jp.

told me today he's like god can you just pay me in jaco white tea because you know he's an esplan front and i'm like brother we can make it happen yeah he's ordering jocco white tea which is awesome like i said it's awesome because as i said last time jp he used to get on those energy drinks yeah yeah yeah and now he's just getting on a little joccal white tea dean's been hammering the jacca white tea and you're also an energy drink guy i'm Yeah, those were the days where it wasn't regulated, you know, speech. Oh, yeah, the FEDRA tea. Yeah, yeah.

It's not good for you. Not good for you. Hey, do you drink tea like in normal, like everyday life? Are you a tea drinker? Yeah, that's weird, right? Me too, but I pound these. I pound these all the time. How's this?

No, I stopped using like the Red Bull type stuff. That's not really, you know. And this is like a transition. Yes. I had, I had like an energy type drink the other day. and because I was driving and I needed a little bit of energy and it was like one of those ones and it said you know like all the all the little buzzwords on it healthy Natural blah blah blah blah so I drink this thing and all of a sudden 30 minutes later I feel like I'm gonna start stabbing like the road with a battle axe and attacking people

And I go what do it had 200 milligrams of caffeine 200 milligrams of caffeine. Yeah, that's gonna get you Bro you're not what are you doing? Don't give me all that. Are you psycho? Yeah, yeah, you're right. You're right. You're right.

It's all their fault. Not your fault at all. No, no, no, no. All good. How's this? So my wife, she's on the path, my wife, big time. Actually now, just like, boom, on the path. So I look.

She even listened to that podcast. Bro, I looked on her phone, and it has the podcast on. And she's the kind of where it's like, she's in the game. And that's the kind of where it's like, hey, I'm listening to the podcast. It's not that. She's like, on her own, clandestine. On her own kind thing.

And I'm like, oh, man. So I'm like, okay, the other day. Okay, this was just, this was made, this made to start maybe three, four weeks ago, right? In the game. So the other day, I hear, I'm like in the side, not in the next room, but kind of like to the side. Like I'm not in her visual like thing. So her, you know how people, though. I'm not saying my wife talks to herself.

I'm not saying that. But you know how you say something. You say, oh, oops, you made a mistake. Just kind of under your breath kind of stuff. She's like, no. She goes. She pops another one of these cans. She's like, I love this stuff.

Oh, my God. Yeah. Not to me. She was like on her own, like popping them. And yeah, she's pounding this stuff. So it's interesting. I ask, here's the thing. She is kind of a tea drinker.

She likes tea and stuff. Okay, if it was a blind, double blind test and you just came into a room and you'd never drank this before and you picked up a cup, somebody put it in your hand and put it in your mouth, would you say it was tea? I would, but I'm not like a, hey, that's, that's tea. You know, I'm not a tea drinker. That's why I was asking if you were a tea drinker. Because I know it tastes like tea if you drink tea, but if it was just like you in a store and grabbed a can and you open,

you'd be like, oh, this is interesting. You wouldn't maybe necessarily know it was tea. Maybe. Yeah, well, it don't say that in England. Cold tea is like really weird. Yeah, it's evil over there. Yeah. I think it's evil.

Oh, it's bad. Hang, okay. No, well, they just don't drink it. They drink their tea warm or hot and with milk in it. Do you put milk in that? No. Right. Seems like a psycho thing to do with this one.

Don't do that. Nonetheless, it's good. Hey, I got some books. Way of the Warrior Kid books for your kid. There's one of them that's called Way of the Warrior Kid. The second one in that series is called Mark's Mission. Got the Discipline equals Freedom Field Manual. If you need to know how to get after it, that's where you find out how to get after it.

The audio version of that book, you get it on iTunes as an MP3 or Amazon music or Google Play or whatever. Also got extreme ownership. That's about combat. Leadership written by me and my brother Laif Babin and on September 25th the dichotomy of leadership Comes out the dichotomy of leadership it's a follow-up Leif and I wrote it follow-up to extreme Ownership dives in and gets granular on how to balance the opposing forces of leadership So that you and your team can win dichotomy you like that word yeah Things are smiling no I was waiting for you to say it actually I said it once I only said it once this

podcast which is weird because I should have said it a bunch because in Jiu-jitsu you've got to be aggressive but there's a dichotomy because you can't be do aggressive yeah you got to be offensive but at the same time you've got to also there's a dichotomy because you got to be defensive right you got to train with the Ghee but there's a dichotomy because you've also got to train without that G-g right yeah so there's a dichotomy there G-Gi and no-gee both are very important yeah so you've got to do it leadership consulting company echelon front we solved Problems through leadership whatever problem you have at your company your team it's a leadership problem

I'm telling you that right now it's a leadership problem On some level it's a leadership problem if you want help with that you got me Leif Babin JPML Dave Burke Flynn Cochran and now Mike Sorrelli as well and that's what we do we come work with your company and get those leadership problems solved Which will solve whatever inherent problems are within your team your company your business muster zero zero six in San Francisco California October 17th and 18th All the other ones have sold out This one is apparently on track to sell out

Even faster than all the other ones so if you want to come to that go to extreme Ownership.com get registered. We'll see you up there Leadership seminar two days of granular practical Leadership it's not it's not a motivational You can And I'm not saying you won't be motivated because I get motivated, but we're not there going like, how can we motivate these people? That's not even, that's not even said at any point at all. Neither is you can do it. Yeah, neither is you can do it. Yeah, neither is you can do it. You ever say that ever. No, no, but you have the strength today. You are a strong person. You believe in yourself. You are great. For sure he doesn't say that is not what is happening. That is not what is happening. We, we talk about leadership and leadership is the most. important thing on the battlefield it's the most important thing in your business and it's the most

important thing in your life so if you want to come and learn some pragmatic leadership skills then come to the muster also for current law enforcement military border patrol firefighters paramedics first responders all of you out there in uniform we got roll call number zero zero one it's our first roll call we're having the roll call because the muster's two days it's pricey and we wanted to offer something to military law enforcement to the folks out there in uniform to come and get a condensed version focused on the dynamic leadership situations

that you all face. That's September 21st in Dallas, Texas. You also register for that at extreme ownership.com. And also, we now have EF Overwatch, EF Overwatch.com. Okay, so this is it. We've been working with companies for all these years. All these years, we've been working with

all these various different companies and all these companies we work with them and help their leadership well they want to hire leaders they want to bring leaders on board we are also in the military all of us a Deschalon front were in the military and we have connections with a lot of people that were in the military that that want to go work at jobs with great companies so in order to connect those two groups people that want jobs and people that need leaders in their business go to eFoverwatch.com to get in the game and you can either register as someone that's looking for a job it's focused on special ops folks and combat aviation those types of what we're looking at right now we're gonna broaden that out

and put together another company in the very near for another arm of this company and But that's where we're starting because that's that basically the reason we're starting there is because that's the element that we have connections with and so as we expand and we're working this right now to get the lines of communication open in the other branches of the military so that we can bring on board You know other folks but again this is we started with the groups that we know so if you're in those groups go register if you're getting ready to retire if you're looking at getting out and you don't know what you're going to do next we need leaders America needs leaders these businesses need experienced leaders that understand the principles we talk about the principles that are in extreme ownership the things that you learned in combat the things you learned leading troops on the battlefield your skills are needed so hit us up EF overwatch dot com get registered get in the game and we'll get you get your next mission talk

about having your next mission all the time we will get your next mission we got a bunch of companies that are they need you and if you want to spend some time with us virtually until we're rolling until we're rolling at the muster or rolling in Texas or rolling at the immersion camp until then we're all up on the interwebs dean dean lister Dean is at on Instagram Dean is at Dean Lister That's right on Twitter you might not even remember this on Twitter your Dean underscore Lister I looked up to see if you had Twitter you had a post you your your last post was in 2010 oh okay

Did Twitter exist in 2010 I'm not even kidding it did Twitter was like three years old No that's has it been around that long when was it invented? Obviously before 2010 Yeah makes sense I didn't ask, I knew that. Yeah, well, because you just kind of said you did it. No. But, you know, all good.

Yeah. Or three years ago. Factually. And Facebook, you do Facebook. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. You do Instagram? Yeah, Instagram more now.

Facebook, there's one as like a fan. You know, they make the audit generate one for you. If you find a U.S. or whatever. Or if you have a certain amount of friends, I have that personal one. It's me and my mom, my sister in the cage. And there was another one. I don't know who it is. Me.

Remember you made me. Not you didn't make me, but you asked me to set you up one like 10 years ago. Yeah, but there's another one. Oh, another one on top of that. That someone, it's actually post things about me, but... What's the real one? It's just Dean Lister.

Dean Lister? Yeah, it's just, that's me in a cage with my mom, my sister. Yeah. Right on. Yeah. Right on. And that's where you can find us. Of course, Echo is at Echo Charles in all mediums.

Yes. I am at Jocco Willing. Echo, you got anything else? Pretty cool to hang with Dean in this capacity. You know, like, what, but I see, literally every time I come here pretty much. Yeah. Literally pretty much, I see, you know, whatever, right? By the way, your, my first, actually, your class was my third judicist class.

Really? Was it out in Chula Vista? Yeah, Chiluilisda, in that half deal. Yeah, yeah, you were strong back then, too. Have you heard him tell that? Like, he thought he could take you, kind of. Yeah, yeah. I told him that story.

Couple time. He got me and cake nuts. No, no, no, no. Okay. So the mean cake nuts story is different. So it was like, when I, for the first time I ever rolled with you, you were like, yeah, yeah, come roll. Like, you know, yeah. And I was like, yeah, what I like, how, how this is literally what I thought.

How embarrassing is it going to be? And how awkward is it going to be if like I get Dean today. Like, that's what I was thinking. I was literally not to sit. It wasn't like this fantasy. I was literally worried about the awkwardness. So that's how real it was to me. I didn't.

I'm not saying I was going to get you, but to me there was a chance. But I was like yeah, it's okay, you know, he'll respect that if that happens. I'm not saying it will, but it might kind of thing Right when you you know how you're saying right when you locked up and this is This is maybe like a week or something Yeah, 05 yeah so this may be like a week or two into jiu jiu jitzu Right even then right when we locked up I knew okay that there is zero chance of me beating Dean right now Yeah, that's maybe when Dave Burke came on and we were talking about top gun and how like He he set it up really nicely and he's like oh, yeah

If he had a guy that was really good and blah, blah, and this whole thing, he's like, then his chance of beating, you know, me as a top gun instructor would be zero. Yeah. Zero percent. There's no. And that's kind of the situation. Yes.

There's literally, I'm saying there's actually no possible way. No possible way that you could have submitted Dean Lister. No possible way. And I knew that like literally right when we locked up. And I was like, okay. And it was, um, uh, and even at that point, even before, this was like when you were in pride, this was like right after you won. or maybe right before no no it's right before you won ADCC or right after I don't know I

remember one day you came in and everyone cheered for you because it's the first you know it was like maybe maybe was when I faced G. Jacques Machado in the super fight maybe yes that's what it was actually yep no that's exactly what it was when you face Jean-Sachmashano in the super fight so we had comprito who's an awesome guy came up to help train you and so we were all training you and we were all training with you and and when we got to the fight this is this is the difference in Attitudes right so we got to the match. I won't call to fight because it's not a fight it's a match Yeah, and you were going against John Jacques Machado who's a You know legendary legendary jih Tzu player and

When you got to like a dominant position and you were up by like like Oh, you're up by like three or four points like go for the The judge yeah Confrito's like no hold right there hold you got this you know like that type of thing strategical Brazilians yeah stick by their and I'm going figure Jim. That day was a good day.

It was funny right before the match, because Caprito trained for like three weeks, you know, and Caprito right before the match, he goes, hey, Dean, I want to talk to you. He said in English section. He went, just so you know, I came down here to help you. And if you don't win today, I've let you down.

And I feel like, I'm a, like, whatever. I was like, he's like, so if you lose, I lose also. And, you know, I really hope you win. And I'm like, damn, the pressure, you know. Was that ownership? I'm like, I don't want to let you get down. It's like, I'd let you down. I don't want to let you down.

You've planned some siops on you. It's pretty good, and it worked. But yeah, that was, yeah, that was it. That was good. Well, it's because my point is cool to hang with you in this capacity. You know, slightly different, but. It was more simple.

None of the less. Dean, any closing thoughts? No, just, you mentioned the first responders. I think for them, most importantly, get on the mat. If you, any kind of first responder, you deal with erratic people. I think it's really good. It does take some measure to put yourself in the situation where you are,

you will be weaker than people to get stronger. But I think it's very important. I think that's, I see more seals on the mat that I do cops. And I think cops need more than a seal, you know. So I hope to see more of this first responders on the mat, learning this kind of stuff. It's really valuable, definitely. And I look forward to the immersion camp. Looking forward to Matt

Looking forward Awesome man Well Obviously thanks for coming on Dean I know we've been Putting this off for a while And I'm sure you'll be back on again And we'll talk more

Jujits Stories etc And And thanks to everyone else out there For listening And especially those of you That wear the uniform So yeah

You know Military, police Firefighters Border Patrol Paramedics other first responders we know that all of you make sacrifices every day to protect us and we absolutely thank you for that and like Dean I also hope that all of you in all those jobs find some time to train some Jiu-jitsu because it'll make you better at your job

it'll make you better at life and if you can't find Jiu-Jitsu I'll find some boxing or some judo or some wrestling or some Muay Thai or some way to train so that you can fight when the time comes and and really that goes to everyone that is listening to this if you can get out there and fight get out there fight fight literally and fight metaphorically in your everyday life fight against the enemy fight against the criminals fight against fire and catastrophe fight against your training partners fight against your weakness fight against sloth fight against laziness and stagnation and fight to stay on the path and live in accordance with the way by getting out there and getting after it until next time this is dean and echo and jaco out