Jocko Podcast - 140: "If", by Rudyard Kipling: Analyzed. Not Liking to Fight. Personal Intelligence. Giving Tactful Feedback.

Episode Date: August 29, 2018

0:00:00 - Opening: "If", by Rudyard Kipling.  1:06:26 - Are you less of a man if you don't like to fight? 1:15:37 - Personal intelligence VS Physical Prowess.  1:19:33 - How to give tactful criticism. 1:28:06 - Best way to combine striking and grappling. 1:40:51 - How to deal when someone is fired and you disagree with that decision. 1:48:16 - Is it always bad to be a little unapproachable? 1:50:34 - What to do if you're ever BROKEN. 1:54:50 - Support. 2:27:18 - Closing Gratitude.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 140 with Echo Charles and me, Jocco Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you. If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, but make allowance for their doubting too. If you can wait and not be tired by waiting or being lied about, don't deal in or being hated, don't give way to hating, and yet don't look nor talk too wise. If you can dream and not make dreams your master, if you can think and not make thoughts your aim,

if you can meet triumph and disaster and treat those two impostors just the same, if you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools or watch the things you gave your life to broken and stoop and build them up with worn out tools if you can make one heap of all your winnings and risk it on one turn of pitch and toss and lose and start again at your beginnings and never breathe a word about your loss. If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew to serve your turn long after they are gone. And so hold on when there is nothing in you except the will which says to them, hold on. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue or walk with crowds.

kings nor lose the common touch if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you if all men count with you but none too much if you can fill the unforgiving minute with 60 seconds worth of distance run yours is the earth and everything that's in it and which is more you'll be a man my son and that of course is the classic poem which is called if and it's by Redyard Kipling

and of course we have covered some of his less I guess famous has less famous poems on this podcast we covered infantry columns which a lot of people

don't know the name infantry columns but that's the poem that talks about boots, boots. Boots. Moving up and done. Yeah, that one. We read the Young British Soldier,

which is about Afghanistan. We read a bit of Tommy. And, of course, Kipling was an incredible writer. And he talked a lot about war, talked a lot about being a man and his own son, his one son, John,

was killed in World War I. at the Battle of Luz, and these are great poems. And I recently read a poem called Mental Cases by Wilford Owen, and when we got done with that podcast, I actually said I should have read it again. And I didn't, I said, hey, go back to the beginning and listen to it again, but I should have actually picked it apart a little bit. Because it's kind of like what I said about Shakespeare

when we did Henry V. And I said, you can't get frustrated with Shakespeare, you can't think that you're just going to read Shakespeare and just get it. It doesn't work that way. There's more to it than that. There's more depth there. There's words you might not know. There's references that might not be obvious.

There's, and it's the same thing when you look at poems like this. There's more to them than you can get with just like reading it, right? There's layers. It's what we're talking about. So the poem that I just read. red if is like I said it's a classic it's read often it should be read but there's and and that's part of the reason why I didn't cover it for a long time because I kind of thought everyone just knew it but everyone oh yeah everyone knows that everyone knows that poem everyone's read that poem

but it's actually not true talk to a lot of people and I say oh yeah it's like if and they say oh what's that so in order to sort of solve that problem we cover on the podcast and now people will hear this poem and learn from it. And I want to spend a little bit of time breaking it down because there's all kinds of important lessons in it that are really solid, really solid guidance. And then when we understand it, then I'll go back and read it again.

The way it's supposed to hit you when you know what's going on. So breaking it down a little bit. And there's themes in this that we've heard. I've talked about. And they're just consistent through time. So here it starts off. If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you. This one's pretty self-explanatory.

Keep your head. Don't lose your temper. Stifle your emotions, as I once said on this podcast. And it's saying, especially when everyone else around you is not only losing their temper, but on top of that they're blaming you. This is a little bit of ownership here. This is a little bit of extreme ownership. And I've talked about that.

When someone blames you for something, you know what you do? You say, yeah, you're right, it is my fault. This is what I'm going to do to fix it. You pathetic. You don't say that part. You keep that to yourself. When there's a problem and people are blaming it on you,

own it. Own it. And don't lose your temper. Stifle your emotions. Next line. If you can trust yourself when all men, doubt you, but make allowance for their doubting too. There's a little dichotomy here, right? So,

you got to be confident, of course, right? Trust yourself. That's what it means. Believe in yourself. Even when other people are doubting you, you got to trust that you're doing the right thing. You got to trust that you're capable. You got to trust that you can make this happen. That's what it means to trust yourself when all men doubt you. But there's a dichotomy here. And this is so important because that, because what that means, what that one line alone could lead to is, hey, I'm just going to be overconfident, right? I'm confident. Hey, I'm right. Everyone else is wrong. You don't get it. That's not what's being said here because there's a but. That's the dichotomy part. The but is a dichotomy part. Because while you got to believe in yourself, yes. And at the same time,

you also have to make allowance for their doubts. That means you have to understand that you might have some issues. You might not be perfect. You might be wrong. You might not be as smart or as talented or as squared away as you think you are. And your idea that you came up with might not be the best one. So yes, you've got to have confidence. Even when people are downing you, but you got to remember that they could be downing you for a good reason. You could be wrong.

You should always have that in the back of your head. That's the dichotomy. Humble, confident, but humble. That's what we're talking about. Next line. If you can wait. and not be tired by waiting. Patience.

That's about patience. I think I've told this. Have I told the story about being on a ship and waiting for Chow? Not that I can remember. Okay, so I was on my first deployment as a seal on a ship in the Navy. We're overseas. We're spending a lot of time at sea. And to eat food, which was, I'm not going to say it was scarce.

But they'd feed you three. times a day and and all the type of ship I was on an amphibious ship there's a several hundred marines on board obviously there's the sailors that run the ship there's seals we're you know an 18 man seal platoon on there but everyone's got to be fed when it's chow time and so everyone will go line up for chow you get in line and the line would be long and depending on a hungry you are maybe you want to get up there a little early anyways to make a long story short so we get in line and whatever reason they got this rule that you're not allowed to lean

on the bulkhead. You know what a bulkhead is? In a plane I do. In a plane, what is it? That front part. Yeah, that's a front part. You know, it's a wall. Basically on a ship or an aircraft,

it's a wall. It's a bulkhead. So for whatever reason, in the Navy standing in the Chow line, you're not supposed to lean on the bulkhead. So imagine this. You're going to be standing there for, you're standing three inches from a wall, but you're not supposed to lean on it.

Yeah. Now, this isn't a three-minute stand. This is half an hour. This is 40 minutes waiting for the child to open up and then serve everybody. And I remember I learned something about patience because then you get these guys that, you know, the people that they have a little bit of authority and they're going to use it. And if given the opportunity, they will abuse it. They're going to take it to the next level. So there'd be some guys, not all of them.

I was always my goal to make friends with anybody that had anything to do with feeding us on a ship, I wanted to be their bro because then you get a couple extra chicken nuggets, maybe you get an extra scoop

full of ravioli, which is, which is important, big time, especially when you're trying to pack on the mask, right? So I try to be friends with all those people, but some of those guys,

they didn't care about friends, right? They had that authority. And one of, this one guy, I remember he had the authority. It was, he was in charge of making, making sure that line was, you know, maintained discipline in the line.

That was his deal. He had a badge of some kind. I want to say he was a mastered arms, which is a job in the Navy. I think this guy was actually a master at arms. So he had some kind of badge, right? So that takes that authority attitude up one, maybe two notches. He's coming at you. Yeah, yeah.

So I'm standing in line one day. and I'm leaning on the bulkhead. Am I being a little bit lazy? Sure. I'm telling you it's a long deployment, right? I'm leaning on the bulkhead. He comes over. Hey, no leaning on the bulkhead.

You know what I did? What? Got off the bulkhead. I just stood up straight. Didn't get mad, didn't get angry. He's doing his job. Not supposed to lean on the bulkhead. Just normal face.

Yeah. Was I a broken man? Was I a broken man? Did my will break? I don't think so. What I did was I accepted. I was able to wait and not be tired by waiting. So be patient.

This is the moral of that line. Well, technically, you weren't able to wait without getting tired because you leaned on the bulk kit. You got corrected. I got corrected. And then I got untired. Gotcha. Yeah, yeah. All right.

Next line. Or being lied about, don't deal in lies. People are going to lie about you. Tell the truth. Tell the truth about what's going on. Getting caught in the web of lies, not fun. No.

Not fun. And you see it happen with people. I'm trying to think, you remember when you're a little kid and you'd think you'd get away with some little web of lies? Oh, yeah, like, yeah, yeah. Or you see your kids do it.

Yeah. They tell a little lie about something and the web just encapsulates them. But adults do that too. You see that happen in politics. Yeah. You know, I never did this, you know what I mean? And then they have video, they have audio.

And it's just, if that person would have said, hey, this is what I did, this is what I did, I'm sorry, it's a bad mistake. I throw myself to the judgment of the people, right? Okay, fair enough. But instead they make up some lie about, I'm not, I've never seen that woman before in my life. Yeah. Oh, really? We have a video of you apparently quite acquainted with as a woman. Yeah.

Or whatever. So yeah, don't get in the web of lies. It's not going to help you. Next line, or being hated, don't give way to hating. Now, what's interesting about this is we actually have a name for these people now, right? Haters. Right? That's a, that's a new word.

I don't think there was such a thing as haters. When I was a kid, there was no such thing as haters. Yeah. If someone that didn't like you, you wouldn't say that's a person's a hater. Yeah. No, it wasn't a thing. Well, there's an added, like, sprinkled in element when you say hater. Hater typically is like...

Someone that hates everybody. No, someone who hates everything. No, it's when there's an element of jealousy in there. That's what a hater is. Okay, so I actually nailed this then. Actually, so as I was thinking about this, that's kind of what I thought. Some people aren't going to like you for whatever reason, but oftentimes the reason isn't you. Yeah.

It's actually them, right? Yeah, that's a hater. It's them. It's their... They hate your success. They hate your happiness. They hate their, they hate the fact that you got

whatever it is that they want, right? That's jealousy. So, yeah, some people are going to get, you know, they're going to be haters. Yeah. And so the recommendation here is don't, don't, don't, don't give it back to them.

Yeah. There's a, you ever heard that the opposite of love isn't hate? The opposite of love is indifference. Yeah. So the opposite of hate, is indifference too, right? Just yeah, whatever. Right, right.

That's sort of my recommended course of action. Someone that hates the fact that you're winning. I kind of feel sorry for him, right? But you got to move past that, I guess. Yeah, if you get by the emotional part when someone's hating on you. Yeah, you do kind of feel, I mean, you can, depends on who you are, I guess.

but you can kind of feel sorry for him because it's like it's kind of a lonely like I think I think when I say I feel sorry for him I think that's almost like a little bit of a that's a little bit of ego of mine too of like a little dig like I feel sorry for that person right right it's a defense mechanism of my own I think you know what I mean to it's kind of a back

it's a backhanded insult right you know oh you know echo said this about you you know I actually feel sorry for him yeah it's almost like that guy's so low So I think there's a little bit of ego there from my point when I say something like that. So that's why I think indifference is maybe the better step. Like, hey, whatever, man. Hey, some people are going to like me, some people are going to like me.

Some people are going to good with it. We're moving on over here. There's a culture of embracing that too. You know how people will be like, hey, if you don't have haters, you're doing something wrong or something like that. Like, they'll say that kind of stuff. To me, you know how you talk about how someone says, hey, that's just the way I am. That's my personality. Yeah.

To me, that is brushing up against it, right? Yeah, hey, you know, some people could, some people gonna hate me. That's the way it is. It's like, no, actually. Yeah. Let's think about at least let's account for it a little bit. Let's figure out, you know, maybe why. Yeah.

Yeah. Actually, sometimes, I mean, this is kind of a smaller deal than even warrants me talking about it. Something tells me you're going to do it anyways. I'm going to do it anyway. I mean, in the spirit of trying to understand the nature of haters and. We're actually talking on a podcast right now about. the nature of haters. That's true.

Well, some would say, hey, if you don't have haters, you're doing something wrong, meaning you're not doing something big enough for the jealous people in the world to be jealous of. This is like a whole, this is a whole area

that we just don't want to deal with, right? I mean, seriously. Right? This is like, it's true, man. This is like the area that we're just not. That's why I think that's what's good, what the statement here,

being hated, don't give way to hating. Yeah. Indifferent. Move on. Let's not worry about it. Yeah. And next line.

That's where I'm going. Or analyze it. Yeah. All right. Next. And yet don't look too good nor talk too wise. Don't look too good nor talk too wise. So this is important because this is a little bit of dichotomy too of, hey, don't give way to hating.

Don't deal in lies. But at the same time, saying don't look too good or talk too wise. So you got to keep it real, basically. And you don't want to be a know-it-all. You don't want to talk down to people. You don't want to be the person that comes across like, oh, I would, I'm virtuous. I'm more virtuous than you.

That's what that line is, right? Don't try and look too good like you would never do anything wrong. It's like, oh, that guy got in trouble. That guy got caught in a web of lies. Instead of, you know, jump. It's like, oh, hey, you know what? He made a mistake. Good luck to him.

I hope he can figure it out. Hope he finds the right path out of his situation. instead of talking like oh I'm that would never happen to me because I'm virtuous yeah

or talk to wise which is you know I know everything right yeah I think that's people that are trying to come across you know what remember

when we were on with Captain Charlie Plum and Jim Cuncle and they were trying to drag me into being like them they're like you know what were your warriors like you jocco and i was like no guys no yeah yeah you guys are totally like not just not just like more heroic than me but on top of

that better people like i'm like a rat running around compared to those guys and and so yeah i'm not ever trying to be you know a guy that's saying oh yeah well i'm i'm i'm virtuous and you're not No. Hey man, we're all struggling. Could this mean to, you know, it says don't look too good nor too what? Like, you know how, okay, this is the concept where, you know, when people make speeches or they'll have some sales pitch or something and they'll want every word to be perfect. But then when a sales pitch is like super perfect, it doesn't connect as well as if it's just a person talking normal to you. That's true. You know, saying, um, and all this.

Just that idea. You know, like, so if someone's focusing so hard and being, like, perfect in every way and, like, knowing every single possible thing and just not showing any flaws, like, focusing on it, maybe that's a mistake because they kind of create a disconnect. I actually, I don't think that's what this is talking about, but I think it is correct.

So I don't give you an example. From my perspective, one of the reasons that podcasts right now do really well is because they're normal people talking like normal people. And I think that if, if pod, and there are, podcasts out there that are way polished and everything. And I don't like to listen to those podcasts that are all polished, right?

I don't run. There's very few. Actually, I can't think of any, any of the podcast that I actually like are, are polished to that nth degree, right? Because that's when you're talking about, you know, a highly produced with the background music and all that stuff. Like those podcasts, I don't, I don't like those as much. Yeah.

I don't like those. But, and even when you talk about the produced podcast. like hardcore history he's still talking he's he's still talking I mean obviously Joe Rogan obviously Tim Ferriss even martyr made right marter made he's he's he's talking right he's not just making things happen so I think there's something to that there's something to the fact that we're not talking about doing everything perfect for sure yeah for sure yeah agree yeah I think if if this podcast what would this podcast would be sound like it'd be like Welcome to

Welcome to the Jocko podcast This is episode 140 We're here to talk to you today about A Ritkut Kipling He was born in And just one of those Who wants to listen to that? Yeah

Yeah I do yeah If it sounds like Well because because I think anyway And it has a lot to do with Like what you're used to You know

Where like if you're used to Like a polished presentation And then all of a sudden It's not polished It's like oh he kind of fumbled Through that one Well there's a difference screen not polished and I have also heard podcasts that are not prepared or not professional,

right? That's another, the other end of the spectrum and you can, there's a dichotomy because you can go too far. Sometimes I think people just, they think, well, Joe Rogan, he just presses record and talks. And they think that that's just what that is. Oh, I can do that. I'll just press record and I'll talk with this other guy. And then you, then you listen to them and you think there's a reason why Joe Rogan is so

popular. Yes, sir. The reason that Joe Rogan so popular is because even when he's just conversing, he's got a skill set that he was probably born with and then he honed it as a comedian and then he honed it as an actor then he honed it as an announcer for the UFC and then he started this podcast

and so he was already good at it and then he's done 1,500 podcasts that are two, three and four hours long so guess what? You get good at figuring out you listen to yourself and go oh that didn't sound good and so there's a big difference yes there's podcasts that people just think they're going to hit record and just talk

and it's going to be super cool dichotomy, not cool. Yeah, sure. Hard to listen to. Some of those are hard to listen to. Got a gut through them. So check. All right, next line.

If you can dream and not make dreams your master. That one's pretty, pretty, that's a pretty awesome line, right? That's a pretty awesome line. And it's a dichotomy. Yes, dream, but don't make them your master. Don't make dreams your master. Live in reality, right? Yeah, okay, got you.

Live in reality, not in the world of dreams. If your dreams are your master, what are you actually doing? Daydreaming all day. Daydreaming all day. You got to make something happen. Yeah, yeah. That's what's got to go down. Next, very similar, if you can think and not make thoughts your aim.

So, yes, of course, think. But don't make your goal to sit around and think. And I think in my mind, when I hear this, maybe I'm my own personal biases coming into it, This seems like a little shot at philosophers and academics, right, that sit around all day and what they're doing is their thinking. That's what they do. A little shot at those guys. Because don't make a thought your aim.

You want to actually go and do things. You want to make things happen. You want to live. There's a difference there. Yeah. And actually that's like a, because you know how like, I feel like you're kind of the example of,

that like when I start saying whether it be on this thing or or even in real life where I'll start explaining something because I'll be super interested in like how this thing works and hey did you see what happened there explained and then your attitude has always been like yeah okay like okay give me an example and what do you mean by real life the outside of recording so all like analyze like if someone's like if I were to talk about haters like I could analyze that like a lot you know yeah that's a separate podcast for echo Charles podcast this is Exactly Charles back down. Number one.

Just the dynamics of like, you know what people. The dynamics of haters, episode one. How people could see a whole series, bro. Yeah, maybe. You never know. But you'll be like, all right, you know, okay, we understand. You do it for more like, hey, we're going to understand so we can take action or, you know, whatever. All just explain the understanding because it's fun to explain the understanding.

You see what I'm saying. I'm looking for application of that knowledge into usually leadership situations. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Right. And then you'll, it seems like like you'll. You'll dig into like understanding it.

Like as deep as you have to take action and that's it. No deeper. Yeah, well, I'm not going to sit around and meditate on it. That's what it seems like you're trying to avoid. Yeah. And also I think that the understanding of the broad concept is more important than the minutia. Yeah.

You got to understand the details, yes, but you want to understand the broad concept and then you can move forward and you know what you're dealing with. Yeah. Pretty straightforward. Then an academic type as we, as the example, as your example kind of talks about. like their kind of goal is the thought is to analyze and oh see how this works and that's the whole goal their goal is never really to take action someone else can take action but their their goal is the thought of it that's what it seems I think that's one thing that Dan Carlin from hardcore history does

is he so he like a lot of times I'm comparing what I'm reading about in historical situations to what I've either been through myself or or other books that I've read, other situations I know about. Dan Carlin does one book to another book or one time to another time. But then the other thing that he does is he takes it to us. Like he'll say, imagine if you were, imagine if America right now elected a person. So he brings it into like real time.

Yeah. That's his, that's his, to me that's what makes, that's part of what makes. There's a lot of things that make his podcast excellent, but that's one of the things that makes it very engaging as he brings it to, imagine if this happened today. Imagine if the Germans attack.

He just brings it to today, so it makes you think about it. And he compares it to other time periods. So there's some similarities there. But his thoughts aren't his aims. I don't think. Yeah, and I wouldn't even say. Well, I think when I just said that,

I think he takes the thoughts and applies him to current times, right? That's what makes it interesting. or one of the things it makes interesting. Yeah. And I wouldn't even say the thoughts being your aims is necessarily a bad thing across the board. I think with, you know, obviously his approach it is. But, you know, the person who's just kind of gets a huge payoff in figuring out how things work and that's sort of it. You know, like it.

And it's kind of like, hey, if I'm, you know, I'm going to figure out how this, I don't know, this engine motor works. It's up to the engine builder to build more engines or to build a better engine or whatever. Just wants to know how it works? Yeah, they're just really interested in how things work, you know? Yeah. Is it possible to be super, you know, like people that want to understand Jiu-Jitsu, but they don't want to do it? You want to learn moves, but they don't want to roll? Well, there is that for sure.

Oh, yeah, there is that. And, I mean, depending on who you are, obviously, that philosophy won't kind of jive with your whole thing. But, yeah, I could see how that could be. If someone's like, yeah, like, I don't know, someone who's not into necessarily the physical part of it as much as the mental part and maybe like to watch it. Yeah. And I suppose some guys that can't train hard anymore because whatever, they got injured or whatever. And they still are into it. Oh, yeah.

Or these coaches that like maybe weren't that good or something, but they like they know. And they're like the best coach. You know, that kind of person. Yeah. John Donner. He doesn't have any world championships under his belt, I don't think. Yeah. I don't know.

But name with Greg Jackson. So I don't think Greg Jackson, you get Greg Jackson's name even fought MMA, I don't think. Not one time. Yeah. One of the best coaches out there. Coaches ever. So, yeah. So you get that kind of person.

But would it be saying that he made his thoughts, his aims? No, because he put those, he applied them. Yeah. Yeah. So, well, then again. Swing in a mess. Swing in a mess. But take those academics, though.

See what I'm saying? Like an academic type person, maybe they're a professor or something. They teach about business or sales. They don't own a business. They're a professor. But they teach about business, all this stuff. So that's kind of, it's kind of their thoughts are their aims. is kind of like that's their action.

That's, they're putting their thoughts into action as that's teaching knowledge. So I guess it's less of a shot than maybe I read it as originally against philosophers and academics. Or maybe it is. All right.

Well, no, I think you're right. I think you're right. All right. Next, if you can meet with triumph and disaster and treat those two impostors just the same. What a line that is. Triumph and disasters.

And he calls them both impostors. He calls both triumph and disaster, calls them both impostors. Why is that? Because they are. Because they are. Because neither triumph or disaster is an end-all or be-all. Neither of them.

They feel like it at the time when you raise your hands and you get the victory. You feel like that is a be-all-end-all. But as Patton said, all-glory is fleeting, right? That triumph is going to fade. Triumph isn't an eternal victory. It's an imposter of one. And this is what's important. And this is the one that's harder for people to overcome.

Is that disaster is the same way. Some things happen to us, and it seems like it's the end of the world. But it's not. Disaster is also an imposter. You know what this happens to? This happens to teenage kids in their little relationships, right? Sure. Right?

Yeah. Teenage kids and their little. relationships, they break up and they think it's the end of the world. And if they only knew that in three years, they wouldn't even remember that person's name. Yeah. They wouldn't even remember that person's name. You could never tell them that. No. You can't ever. You couldn't convince them in a million years. No. That in three years, they will not remember that person's name. No. Not even close. Not even close. You cannot. This is the mind a crazy thing. You know, both know this factually. The girlfriend that you had when you were 14 years old at that time, there was no way that you were ever going to think about another girl.

That was the one. Right now, you don't know what her name was. You barely remember what she looks like. Come on. But that's what he's saying. That when that girl breaks up with you or guy, if you're a girl and the guy that broke your heart, you're not even to remember his name. And you know what he's doing now? Not much.

Not much. Don't worry about that, dude. I don't know, maybe. Yeah, I guess that's a good point. Maybe it doesn't goof. Well, my point is, most likely. These disasters that you have. And then, you know, that's an easy one.

But, you know, your business has a big issue. Oh, it's going to, man, within six months of opening Victory MMA, the roof collapsed. Do you remember that? The the the drunk driver hit a fire hydrant out in front of the building the fire hydrant Actually broke off and the pipes just started squirting I mean how big around is a is a fire hydrant? It's a it's a 12 inch water or something a 12 inch water line started spraying up and on to the top roof the building which is no big deal because you know roofs are They're meant to take water. Well what happened was the little drains because it's a flat roof the little drains up there since it doesn't a lot in California. They had debris and they filled up. The drains filled up and then the next thing you know the roof just filled with water

Inside the parapet wall and the roof collapsed that was in six months of opening up We I think we had just started making money boom. We got no we got half the building is gone The air conditioners from the second from the roof are on the bottom floor of the building in the Mixed martial arts area It was bad, but you know what it seemed like a big disaster guess what? Get it taken care of It's like move on Guess what? The gym's still 10 years old

Still going strong So these bad things are gonna happen These disasters are going to happen But they're not permanent They're not the be all end all They're not the end of the world And the victories the triumphs are the same thing They're not gonna last

Don't rest on your laurels Stay centered So stay balanced So did you guys end up clearing out the drains Or what? The drain? Yeah, we cleared them out. Good idea.

Day late and a dollar short. Next, if you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken, twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools. So, you go out and you tell the truth, right? And then the truth that you tell gets twisted around by some knave, which is an unscrupulous person. It's a dishonest person, right? Let's bring that word back. Let's bring it back. They're going to twist your words

and you're going to have to bear it. And the reason that this is what I think is interesting, the reason that you have to bear it is because if you get drawn into it, it's a trap. It's a trap that you're going to get drawn into. If you start dealing with what, if you start going in and trying to

untwist this lies that have been told about you, it's a trap. That's what he's saying. It's a, almost like a battle you can't win and by entering the battlefield you're going to get wounded yeah so what is this like some you know how like someone will say something i don't know and it'll like involve race won't be racist but it'll like involve race because that's how the explanation pans out

you know on tv or something and then someone else will come in and be oh my gosh this person's racist because look what he said and maybe they'll play like you know the end part of the tape only or the beginning only or something like that and then they'll some Someone else will be like, hey, you know, this interview, you know, they'll ask this question, hey, did you say this? And they'll be like, well, yeah, I said that. Oh, and then someone else will come and be like, look, he even admitted he said this thing. But then, you know, and then so it just keeps getting twisted and twisted and twist it. It's like that.

And then the more you explain it, the more you're saying you didn't say this. Well, I did. Okay. Well, you did or you didn't kind of, you know, it's like that. I think that's definitely part of it. And probably that's it. I mean, that's it. When you go and try and unwind these things, you're probably going to dig yourself

a bigger hole. I think that's the overall. Yeah. Yeah, I could see that. Now, are there times where people say something that's so horrible against you that you have to defend yourself? Sure, that can happen. I think when you do that, you keep it simple, you keep it direct, and then you walk away. Right? Yeah. You say, look, I would never have done that or I would never have said that or whatever. And that's all I'm going to say. Walk away. Break the wrist. Walk away. All right. Next. or watch the things you gave your life to, broken, and stoop and build them up with worn out tools. So you gave your life to whatever.

Your life's works. You gave it all. And that thing is broken. It's destroyed. And what you do is you stoop. I like that word because what does that mean? It means you're bending down. That means you're bowing down, right?

You're having to get down. You have to stoop down. You go to the ground and begin to rebuild what has been destroyed. And you do it with worn out tools. Now, we're not just talking about worn out physical tools like a hammer and a saw. We're talking about you. We're talking about a worn out broken down, you. You are broken down and you're worn out.

But you go anyway and you start from the beginning and you really. rebuild again. That's legit. Yeah. Remember the game Contra? No. Okay. There's this game on Nintendo called Contra.

I never have Nintendo. Oh, dang, bro. That's too bad. But there's this game named Contra. And who play Nintendo knows this game because it's freaking awesome. It's this code is basically these two guys. If you go one player, you go one player. Two players play on the same screen and you just go.

It's like the basic side angle game. these Commando Rambo guys Side angle? Side angle, yeah it's not like you know instead of a first person Shooter, it's just a side angle and it's these Rambo guys. You go two players they both play on the same screen, boom. Against each other? No, with each other.

Okay. So boom they kill bad guys right? So through the game you can get different weapons. Okay. So and each weapon is like more and more effective, right? So you can get the basic shooter is what you start with and you have a machine gun, you just hold the button down and it goes and it's just machine gun.

Then there's like a laser that just, it can go and it can just kill like five people in a row. And then there's the spreader. It's a spread gun. So at a side angle game, multi-level kind of thing, the spreader, it just kills everybody. Boom, boom. So one, can you kill your own person by accident? No. No.

No, this game sucks. No, it's not realistic. This game is awful. You're right. There are some unrealistic elements of the game. If I had a game, there'd be some situations you get into. They'd teach you about combat. Yeah.

It wouldn't teach you about the spreader. Yeah. Well, teach you about blue on blue. Teach you about fratricide. All right. I dig it and that would probably be a heavy game, but contra. It's not like that. So when you get to the point is, the point is following me here.

The point is when you get the spreader, you can make it super far because you're just killing everybody. How do you die if you have this infinite weapon? Well, someone can still kill you if you mess, you know, someone shoots you, just like any other way you can die. But since you have the spreader that's just killing everyone so easily, you make it to high levels. You see what I'm saying? But here's the thing about Contro. When you get killed, you get like, you get three men, right? I know, unrealistic, but still, that's most video games.

Anyway, you get three men. If you get killed, you lose the spreader. You start again where you were, but you still get that P-shooter again, the one you first started with. So it's that same thing. So you go through all the levels, you work so hard to get the spreader. Is this, you have three men? You have three lives? Here's the thing.

Yeah, okay, which is another thing about Contra, which is so. awesome. You have three lives, but if you know the code in the beginning of the game, you can get 30 lives. And here's the code. Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A. Then press Start. That's the code it gives you 30 lives. If everyone knows that. I'll, I want 100% guarantee that every single person, every single person that has played Contra knows that code. Not even like 99%. 100%. Well, yeah, because you get 10 times the amount of effectiveness. Yeah. So. But it's a secret. code. It's not like it comes with a game.

I'm not very secret if 100% of people. Well, this was back in like 88 or 80, not whenever that game was out. Pre-interwebs. Pre-interweb. Yeah, whatever they know. It'd be interesting to track how that information spread. Back then, right? Back then, how did it spread? Up, up, down, down, left, left, A-B.

How did that spread? There was no internet. Yeah, it's true. No viable internet. Yeah, it's true. The kids for them sure weren't on it. I don't know. So your point.

is that this taught you that you will use those worn out tools and you'll still try and go back and rebuild contrast style. I'm so glad Kipling is dead to not hear this. I apologize. No, if he understood the concept, he'd be like, you are exactly right.

Because here's the thing, listen to the practicality of this whole. Because with the spread, okay, if you just had the P-shooter, right, we'll call it the P-shooter. That's the gun that you start with. If you start with that, it's really hard to make it to a high level.

Because it's like the levels get harder and hard and you just got that piece shooter, but those guys are going to kill you. But if you get the spreader, it's the exact opposite. You can smash through levels. Right. And some of the levels at the end, you got to have a powerful weapon to beat the boss. You see what I'm saying?

So if you have the spreader, you can get pretty far. I've heard people who use the term boss. Is there a term called king boss or main boss or end boss? And boss, yeah. And boss, yeah, for sure. And then this is a universal term Maybe with video games With video games, right?

And that's what my question? Boss is. But do we know where the term originated from? Who is the original end boss? I don't know. There's a video that someone made that's really, really funny. It's called, it's something about me. And it's a German guy.

And it's like, how did Jock-Wilink get so massive? Yeah. Have you seen that video? Well, what was it? He just makes a video where he breaks down how I got so massive. Yo, yeah, yeah, yeah, I did. It's hilarious. Yeah.

But one thing he goes, this is the ad. Chaco is the end boss to kill all the end bosses. And I didn't really know what an en boss was. So I googled it and I figured out that it's from the video game world. World. World. And boss. Do you remember the date of that?

Is it like an old school game like Atari? Oh, no, no, no, no. It's the video game world. No, no. The video game in the world. The world. The world of the video games. Yeah, yeah.

You were a little taking it back. What video game was this, man? World. I want to play that. Give me my spreader. I'll go get some levels. Because there's a game called Kung Fu. In original Nintendo, it's called Kung Fu, five levels.

But then they repeat and they get harder and hard. But there's five levels. And I think in the game, it called them the boss. Like the first level boss. That might be it. And the second level boss. But I'm sure, I'm sure there's, because there's other older game with bosses on them. Nonetheless, Kippling would say because, oh, the point is when you get the spreader,

Kipling. You'll in contra, when you get the spreader. If you go you'll make it to a high level you will but here's the thing that high level is super hard So you need that spreader and if you get hit and you die when you know when you come back to life or whatever You got the peace shooter you find yourself for like this with worn out tools That's what you find yourself and it's hard and if you put your mind to it you can get that spread again But it's really hard super hard anyone who play a contra will do will attest to that I think that right there is We'll leave it at that man. That's my recommendation

All right, next, if you can make one heap of all your winnings and risk it on a one turn of pitch and toss and lose and start again at your beginnings and never breathe a word about your loss, never breathe a word about your loss. Isn't it when you meet someone and you talk to them and you deal with them for a while and they don't tell you anything about their background

and then you find out later that they've been through some big struggle so much more impactful and impressive than when they're like, hey, I did this and I went through that night. I got a good idea, just be quiet. Don't breathe a word about your loss. Yeah.

Just move, just perform. Yeah. And this is also about being willing to take risk. Willing to take risk. This seems like an inappropriate risk to risk everything that you have on a single turn of pitch and toss. Doesn't seem like a smart risk.

Richard Kipling. I don't know about that one. Yeah, take it easy. I'm going to say, let's, let's dial the dichotomy back of the extreme betting situation. Yeah. All right. That being said, you absolutely have to take risks in life. Right.

Like you got to risk something. You got to risk something. You can't just risk like a teeny tiny thing. Got to be a risk, no reward. No risk. But let's not risk everything in one turn of pitch and toss. Let's not do that. Next, if you can force your heart and nerve and sinew to serve.

to serve your turn long after they are gone. That's just awesome, right? We're talking about forcing your heart and your nerve and your sinew. Sinu is a... Basically means your tendons and your ligaments and the things that hold your muscles and your bones together.

And you know who used... Shakespeare used sinew quite a bit. Because it's just like the core element. But this is like saying you will get... You will force your body and your mind to do what you need. them to do even when they're done they're done you're going to force them to do more when they have nothing left to give you're going to force them to give anyways and then it rolls right

into the next line the next line and so hold on when there is nothing in you except the will which says to them hold on good nothing left but will force of will to make make them make make your heart and make your nerve make them hold the line if you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue or walk with kings nor lose the common

touch so this is again this is staying balance this is the dichotomy no matter if you're involved with the masses right even if you're involved with the masses you don't lose your virtue or if you're rubbing elbows with the rich and powerful with the kings

you don't lose that common touch you stay grounded. You don't lose the ability to communicate with people up and down the chain of command from a leadership perspective. No matter what station someone is in life. You remember episode five of this podcast I read a counseling letter to a good guy and I was like hey treat everyone respect 01 or e1 to 010 like it doesn't matter what rank someone as you treat him with respect no matter what don't lose that next if neither friends nor loving if either if neither if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you this is what's interesting it isn't always your enemies that hurt you right in fact it's quite the opposite usually the people that hurt you the most are the people

that are closest to you those are the ones that really yeah put the dagger in and twist it so you got to be above that you got to insulate yourself from that you can't leave that last little bit of exposure in my opinion you got to you got to keep a little bit right you got to keep a little bit you got to keep up you got to put yourself in a situation where you're not going to get crushed by your foes or by the people that you're close to yeah it's hard to keep it's it is hard it is hard guys get jammed up right real jammed up right it has Echo Charles terminology that jams people up all the time. The enemy doesn't jam people up as bad as the friends, right?

Yeah, because the enemy, you expect that. You expect them trying to jam you off. Yeah. But this goes back to the original, what we talked about earlier, the person, and we've talked about this on the podcast, the person that hurts you really bad, that was your friend, they weren't your friend. Yeah.

They didn't exist. Yeah. You thought you knew them. You thought you understood them. You thought they were trustworthy. They weren't. So just we have to just look at it and say, look, that person that I was in love with or that person that I thought was going to be with me all the time.

Guess what? That person doesn't exist. So we got to move on. So you've got to keep, I think, a little bit. And this might sound cold-blooded, right? This sounds a little bit cold-blooded to be like, look, you got to keep some stuff. You got to keep perspective. You got to keep people in check.

And if you let them get in to the point where they can grip. you apart you're gonna be careful you gotta be careful you decide you're gonna do that with real careful yeah yeah or you or this is I think what I do was more like this if that happens I recognize it okay this this is what happened boom that person wasn't who I thought they were we're moving on yeah we're moving on yeah next quest you know what I mean we're moving on yeah so I guess it may be I have the ability I shouldn't say that I have the ability I think I learned along the way way, hey, once someone exposes themselves, reveals themselves as a, as a knave, right?

As a knave. Once they reveal themselves as a knave, I'm over it. I'm moving on because they've exposed, they've revealed great. I'm actually happy that now I don't have to invest any more time, effort into this person. That's a knave. A wretched knave. Yeah, and then you have this kind of, how should I say, overdeveloped control of your emotions, we'll call it. Where like the average person is like, it's kind of like if you built a house, right?

You built a house on Kauai. And it was a nice house. You lived there for 10 years, 15 years even, a lot of memories in that house. Maybe even had some kids, whatever, first dog, all that stuff. And then a hurricane comes, blows it down. Right. There's really nothing you could have done. You know, like if you had a girlfriend,

then she doesn't have the signs of being a knave. But then maybe she changed. Maybe she was out all along. I don't know. She'd be, as it turns out, knave. The house gets blown down. Okay, girlfriend's gone. You can easily say, hey, that wasn't the girl that I loved, all this stuff.

Okay, we're moving on. Obviously, you got to move on, right? She's a knave. Yeah. If you're squared away in your hand. Yeah. You got to move on. You know that already.

But you can't just be like, You're just move on. What about all those memories? Oh, you're talking about the hurricane. I'm talking about both. So, yeah, I'll go back to the hurricane situation. The memories relies.

The man. With the nave, the memories relies. Yeah, but yeah. But emotionally, it doesn't feel like that. And guess what? You're free. Okay. You're free.

You got away. That's, yeah. Escape. Okay. Escape the nave. That's good. That's good. But you're talking about like practically.

You got what you learned. You learned that you're getting to be careful. But see what I'm saying, though. Like your sense of like emotional control allows you to go, boom, right, do that. one right especially when is fresh like you can't just oh yeah look how much I learned yay let's get moving on that that's not the normal person the normal person is it has still has open wounds from because yesterday that house was intact yeah but now we get to rebuild that kitchen and that may be feel rude crooked floor right we're going to fix that one see you're doing

it again you're just going straight to the positive thing which is the good thing to do which is the right thing to do but by the capability wise the average person can't do that so no it's It might be a little bit tricky, but what are their options? It will be a little bit tricky. There's no option. The option is, oh, I'm going to be distressed and mourn the loss of my house. More than the loss of your house. Do it for, you know, four days.

Yeah. There should be a limitation. Yeah, that's a good idea, huh? Be like, hey, one week right now, I'm going to just let my emotions just be my emotions. Try not to like a week too long. Yeah, for a house, for sure. No, that's, that's one of the things that. I'm thinking more for the girlfriend or wife for,

For a girlfriend? Yeah, that's a bit much. But people go months, bro. No, people go years. People talk about it for years. That's not good. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, you can't do that.

That's my point. See, instead of making me sound like I'm all cold-blooded over here, what you should say is like, hey, I wish that some of the people that I know that wrecked their lives over a girlfriend, boyfriend, boyfriend, husband, wife that broke up with them and they let it ruin their lives. I wish you'd say, hey, I wish that they would have had enough to emotional control to say, you know what? All right.

It's day three. They're not coming back. I have two choices. Dig a hole, climb in it, never come out, or step up, make things happen.

Move forward. The choice is obvious. And once you step up and you start moving forward, in three years, you don't remember that person's name anymore. There are no factor. Yeah.

You're no factor. Yeah, man. Yeah, so what's the, I mean, obviously it's going to be deep. and what kind of person it is. So I've talked about this.

Like we don't have a good, a good system. Yeah. When someone dies in America, we don't really know what to do. Because in other countries, in other cultures, they have a specific ritual that they go through. And in America, our rituals are kind of all jammed together. And then we don't really know what the right ritual is, right? We don't even know how to dispose the body.

Do we burn it? Do we bury it? Do we bury it? See, like there's all these options. Options, yeah. Do you donate your? organs do you not there's just like oh do you donate to your body to

science what are we what are you supposed to do what's the right thing to do we don't even know that yeah we even know what to do with someone's body so how are we supposed to know what we're supposed to do when someone dies what are we supposed to do we don't have a physical ritual to do so what now what do we do yeah and so that's the same thing like

there should be rules yeah like a protocol yes a protocol broke up with significant other here's the protocol yeah one day morning one pizza extra cheese pepperoni

sausage right mint chocolate chip milkshake sure cool next day vodka no no

no vodka ever I don't recommend it I don't either because it'll send you even more in the other direction yeah the next day I was like what I was going to say is like I was going to say eight mile run

eight mile run that's just what you got here yeah hey oh yeah what are you doing tomorrow yeah I would have my girlfriend two days ago I got ready miles tomorrow. That's part of the protocol. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, and there could be different levels. Oh, I was going out with her. For every, let's say for every three months that you were with her, that's one mile. One mile. Okay. Yeah. Good. And so then you do that.

And when you get done with that, guess what you got to do? You got to do a contrast baths. Ice hot. Ice hot. Yeah. You got to do that four times, right? Yeah. No, what you do is a good protocol for contrast baths.

Five minutes ice, five minutes heat. Four minutes ice. Four minutes. go back and forth. When you get done with that, boom, you come out, you're cleansed. And then guess what? 24 hour fast. Right? 24 hour fast. That actually kind of sounds weird like for a breakup. But bro, so many cultures do that. Oh yeah, you got a fast.

Yeah, yeah. You got a fast for this. So, and so then we could go on and on, but you make a protocol. It's a three-day protocol, generally. And then boom. Now we come out of that protocol. And then there's one last, the last thing on the protocol is like, go to work or, you know begin normal routine back to normal routine you go to bed back to oh I know the final protocols wake up whatever time it is you get up in the morning third fourth day now the protocol's been completed fourth day boom wake up get get busy get on with it get after it that's what I'm talking about so we don't have that so if you if you put in your mind I think for me

I recognize when something is dragging me this is dragging me in the wrong direction as soon as I see something dragging me in the wrong direction. I know like an internal protocol. It's like, okay, I'm emotionally attached to this situation. It's not beneficial to me. It's not beneficial to me. It's not going to help me understand the nature of the world. It's not going to help me move forward with my life. It's not going to help me in any way. Guess what I'm going to do? I'm going to detach. We're going to take a little step away from that thing. Because I'm not saying emotions are bad. Emotions are great. That's what makes us human beings, right? I get emotional on this podcast, right? That's not bad. No. That's actually good. It makes me

understand myself and other things in the world better. But that's a positive effect of emotions. But if I start having negative emotions and they start dragging me down, protocol. Yeah. Execute the protocol. Boom. That's what we need to do. Yeah.

Like what if part of the protocol was like to shave your head or something? Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Like that could be. Right. And then let's say like you you break up with your girlfriend or something. And then like, you know, a few days later you see her at the post office or something shit.

a shaved head. You're like, oh, man, she's getting over me quick. Yeah. But that would help, though.

That would. It totally would. Because it's like, it's like the process. And it gives you something else to focus on. So it's like, okay.

You're talking about the protocol in general. The protocol. Having a protocol, especially if it expands, like, you know, three, four days, boom, boom,

boom. It's like, you know, doesn't AA have something like that too where you do the steps and you, you know, protocols. Yeah, all kinds of things.

There's a reason protocols exist. Yeah. Because it gives you something to fall you don't have to think about it and it moves you in the right direction yeah yeah so think about that for your life pay attention to it because the scary part about this and we've talked about this too it's like the storm your head's in a storm and you can't get out and the only person everyone else can see that your head has a has a has a two-foot cloud around it yeah and everybody can see if

you just move in a direction you'll get away from that cloud but everywhere you look you just see storm and thunder and lightning so you don't think there's any way out but there is you got to execute the protocol. The protocol is you go due north. 1800 meters. You're going to be out. Right. That's what's going to happen. Shave your head. Run eight miles. Eat a pizza. Eat a mint chocolate chip milkshake. That's day one. That's a little comfort.

Yeah. Little luxury. Theo Vaughn luxury style. Yeah. I remember that. That was good. All right. Next. We went way off on that one. Brett, that was good. That was actually really good. That kind of gets you thinking because if you, you could even do this right now. If you're in even if you're in a relationship even if you're not even in a relationship yet because those are the ones right just yeah prepare a protocol Yeah like. Yeah like if this because it's kind of like a natural disaster you do that you know what? There's also there's also something you could do that would be helpful and I hate to use this word because it gets used in a different sense these days, but you can have trigger points right things that happen Where if you see if you identify things happening you go okay if I get involved in this situation and this happens that's a trigger that means I need to walk, right?

For instance, let's say you have someone that has, let's say you meet someone that was an addict of some kind, an alcoholic. And you're like, okay, if this person starts drinking, that's my trigger, I'm gonna walk because you don't wanna go down that spiral with them. Right? Or whatever the case may be, you have someone that used to date some other guy.

Like, hey, if I see that there's whatever, a Facebook connection again, I'm walking, whatever. Like you figure out these things, And that way you predetermine them when you're in a non-emotional state. Yeah. When you get to the emotional state, hopefully you can overcome your emotions

because there's people that are like, I don't care. I love him. I love her. I'm just going to keep going. There's only this one time. Right? Yeah, that's how.

She friended me. Right? And then they stick around. But if you have your protocol in place, if you have the triggers to execute upon, it's going to make it easier for you. It should make it easy for you. All right.

Next one, this is a good one. If all men count with you, but none too much. And think about this one. We actually got wrapped around this one a little bit in the podcast one time because this is a dichotomy of the fact that I personally, there's part of me that doesn't care what anyone thinks, and then there's part of me that completely cares about what people, specifically people that I have a lot of respect for.

I care what they think a lot. And people that I don't respect, I don't care what they think. So there's a dichotomy there, And that's similar to what is being said here. If all men count with you, so you take their opinions, you understand. But at the same time, none too much to sway you from the path. And here, next line, I think this is one of the greatest lines ever. If you can kill, if you can fill the unforgiving minute with 60 seconds worth of distance run.

So the unforgiving minute. That's a great. That's the way you should think of every minute. Every minute that exists for you is unforgiving because it does not stop. It does not forgive and you can't have it back. That's the unforgiving minute. Time has no mercy on anyone. And what he's saying here is if you can fill every one of those unforgiving minutes of your life,

every single one of them with a full 60 seconds of just. you running and moving forward and getting after it. If you can push that hard, if you can push that hard, then he closes out. Yours is the earth and everything that's in it. And which is more, you'll be a man, my son.

So there it is. If you can do all those things, and that's the name of the poem, if you can do those things, those things that are simple but not easy. Simple, but definitely not easy, then the world will be yours and you will be a man. Ment in the most positive, possible way.

So now we go back. This is what we do. Now that we understand it fully, we go through it fully. Here it goes. If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you if you can trust yourself when all men doubt you

but make allowance for their doubting too if you can wait and not be tired by waiting or being lied about don't deal lies or being hated don't give way to hating and yet don't look too good nor talk too wise if you can dream and not make dreams your master if you can think and not make thoughts your aim if you can meet with triumph and disaster and treat those two impostors just the same if you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools or

watch the things you gave your life to broken and stoop and build them up with worn out tools if you can make one heap of all your winnings and risk it on one turn of pitch and toss and lose and start again at your beginnings and never breathe a word about your loss if you can force your heart and nerve and sinew to serve your turn long after they are going to. gone. And so hold on when there is nothing in you except the will which says to them, hold on, crowds and keep your virtue. Or walk with kings, nor lose the common touch, if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you, if all men count with you, but none too much. if you can fill the unforgiving minute with 60 seconds worth of distance run yours is the earth and everything that's in it and which is more you'll be a man my son and there you have it some pretty straightforward instructions from kipling on how to live and i looked at it and

his son died in World War I. He wrote this poem just before the turn of the century. So he wrote this poem before his son was killed, before his son went to war, perhaps just after his son was born in that time frame. So I'm sure his son grew up with these thoughts. And I think it's thoughts that we can all use. So, Kipling. Thank you. And now we are going to go through some and a dig into a little bit of Q&A echo Charles mm-hmm first question first question okay Jocco many times he said that liking a fight or liking to fight should be a part of every man's personality could you expand on that I've always been interested in martial arts but I've always been reluctant to fight and I would do anything not to does that make me less of a man so obviously this is a pretty fitting question for the situation Yeah. We good?

We got to jocca white tea down. So this is obviously a good question and a fitting question talking about being a man. I don't know if I said liking to fight should be a part of everybody's

every man's personality or if I said that it is part of every man's personality. And I think I said is part of their personality and if I said that what I think I should have said is most right most men uh have in their personality some level of interest of fighting right we wrestle we box we we scrap as kids look at the UFC right why is the UFC so popular right now because it's fighting and we have that that's a I read the other that's a seven billion dollar organization that's a

There's a lot of people watching those fights. A lot of people want to watch those fights. We have boxing, we have wrestling, we have jiu-jitsu, we have Judo, we have Muay, we've got all kinds of martial arts schools. So while I don't think the desire to fight is inherent in all men, right? I'm sure there's men out there that are not into it at all. But I think it's definitely a pretty strong part of many men. Now, for this individual particular, do I think that being reluctant to fight makes you less of a man?

actually I think it's fine. You should be reluctant to fight. I think everyone should be reluctant to fight. There's a lot of bad things that can happen in a fight. A lot of bad things. You know, first of all, you can get hurt, right? That's bad. You can get seriously hurt.

You can get killed. You can get punched one time, fall down, hit a curb, and die. You can think you're going to get in a fair fight with someone. They can stab you in the neck and kill you, right? These things can happen. Even if it's not that bad, you can hurt someone else. Now you're getting lawsuit. Now you're getting put in prison.

Right. So there's all kinds of bad things. So being reluctant to fight is actually a good thing. And it's something that men should have. And actually, the more you know about fighting, the more reluctant you will be. I was way, the less I knew in my life about fighting, the more, sorry, the more I actually knew about fighting, the more reluctant I became to fight because I realized all the risks that are involved.

Part of that was maturity, sure. But the reality is you look at someone, you go, I don't know who that person is. A, they might be training. I'm over here thinking I've been training Jiu-Jitsu for eight months. I'm ready to kick this guy's ass. Meanwhile, you don't know that guy is a purple belt.

Guess what's going to happen to you? You're getting crushed. Or that guy wrestled in high school and he's about to double leg you and slam you on a curb. You're going to die. So you should be reluctant to fight. That's a good thing.

Now, that being said, I do recommend that you are prepared to fight. I definitely recommend that and there's gonna be a big dichotomy here I'm gonna get to but you should know some basics right you should understand threats you should know to contend with other people You should you should know some boxing you should know some wrestling you should know some oitie should know some jiu jitsu for sure Because here's the dichotomy this is this is a big dichotomy and think about it it's a hundred percent true This this individual says he would do anything not to fight Would do anything not to fight let me tell you that

The best thing you can do as a human so that you don't have to fight is actually learn how to fight. That is the best way to not have to fight is if you know how to fight. If you know how to fight, people aren't going to want to fight you. You don't even have to say anything. They can tell. You can tell when you meet somebody. You can tell if that person, oh, if you're ready to fight, people don't want to fight you. The more eager you are to fight, the less people want to fight you.

If you don't know how to fight and bullies, because that's what we're talking about. about, bullies see that you don't want to fight? Guess who they're coming after? You. Now guess what? Now you have to fight. But if you know how to fight and you have that confidence and you have that understanding and you learn simple things like avoidance and you learn, you have better situational awareness,

you become a threat to the people that want to fight you. You become a threat to them just by your knowledge alone. So, no, you're not less of a man because you're reluctant to fight. You actually should be reluctant to fight. But you should learn how to fight because the best way to avoid fighting the more equipped and prepared to fight you are, the less you will have to fight. The less you will be put in positions where you have to fight and the better the outcome will be if it does happen to occur. Yeah. Yeah.

Interestingly, like a lot of the people that you meet in jiu-jitsu are just like this. Yeah. I'm interested in martial arts, but I'm not interested in fighting nobody. you know for sure and then they learn and then they get all there's a strong uh component of nerds in jiu jitzu right strong component oh yeah really strong of of you know people i'm saying it jokingly but there's just this studious type people yeah studious type people that aren't super physical they're more cerebral than they are physical yeah there's a ton of people like that and you know what they'll do choke you out yeah they wind up being real good yeah they wind up being real good

because they're like oh i i understand this there's a this is a game that i I can learn and then I can crush. Yeah. And that's good. And now I have more confidence and I don't have to worry about it anymore. Yeah. And it's interesting how that third or that additional element that they're not really used to. Like how you say nerds and, you know, we'll just say like people who are more cerebral

than physical. You know, it's that. Maybe they didn't play high school sports, right? Yeah. Yeah. Because they were studying because they were working on a computer, right? Yeah. Cool.

Right on. Yeah. They were playing music, right? Yeah. Whatever. Yeah. And then now they get into this highly physical situation. Because Jitsu, let's face it, it's physical.

That's your whole body. It is physical as physical can be. And, but you get in it and you're just finding success just by learning it. It's not like football where it's like, sure, I know how to catch. I can't run fast though. And I'm not big and strong or whatever. So I'm just getting smashed. You know, I can, but this, it's kind of like the more you know, the better you are kind of thing.

And sure, physical attributes help you for sure, but not as much. Yeah. There's, there's, being stronger is great. Yeah. You know, Dean was talking about this today. the mat, the stronger guy's not always gonna win. The more athletic guy's not always gonna win. Sometimes they do.

There's various categories that will bring you a victory. One of the strongest categories that you can have. Well, the strongest category is your technique. It's knowing what to do. Is knowing what to do. And so you're smart people, your cerebral people that come in and go, oh, I can apply, this knowledge the same way I apply my skills

in accounting. James Nielsen, world's toughest accountant, right? He's an accountant. He's a badass. Yes. So that's just the reality. And yeah, and that's why. So now they're in, that's why people get addicted too, because it's like this element

of physical, like a physical fighting, fighting sport, by the way, combat sport. Yeah. And now they're in it and they're good at it. They're good at something physical for the first time. And they're still smart as smart can be, you know, like they always were. So now they got that additional like payoff, you know. That's where they get it. Additional power.

Yeah. I recognize that with kids. that come to jiu-jitsu, oftentimes, and it's not an always, oftentimes the kids that get really into jiu-jitsu are kids that are smart and but they haven't done a lot of other sports yet, and it's exactly what you're saying.

It's very noticeable with kids. The kid that played baseball his whole life and he comes in there, he actually doesn't like it at first and maybe doesn't even want to do it because he's getting choked by someone that seems all nerdy to him. And he knows I could throw baseball farther than this guy, than this guy. And so it makes him mad and he doesn't want to train.

Yeah. But oftentimes it's the kids that come in that really haven't done too much athletically. And, you know, they got picked on. We've, I've had a lot of bullies come to my jih Tzu kids program. The reason they're there is because they got bullied. And once they start training, six months, they're not getting bullied anymore. And a year later, they're a different person.

Yeah. They're a different kid. Confident, assure themselves, not backing down, not being jerks, not being bullies themselves, but just confident. Yeah. So, yeah. Train some jiu-jitsu. Oh, yeah.

Big time. All right. Next question. Jocko. And echo question. How important is personal intelligence in the military? Particularly in more dangerous roles as compared to physical strength. I'm a college student who will probably go to OCS.

Officer candidate's school. Yeah. So this has been on my mind. Well, okay. So intelligence is paramount, right? Of course. if you aren't smart, you're going to do dumb things, and dumb things can definitely get you killed.

This is not to say that if you do dumb things, you will get killed, because I did some really dumb things in combat, and I didn't get killed. And it certainly isn't to say that if you get killed, you did something dumb, because to combat, it has no mercy, and you can be the best trained,

the smartest, the most tackling sound person in the world, and those people can still get killed. Combat doesn't care about any of that. That bullet has no one's name on it. The bomb has no one's name on it. It's going to go off and it's going to take out who it takes out. And that's that. But as far as weighing, you know, intelligence and cognitive power versus strength,

I mean, you have to be, I would rather be smart. And being smart is very important. because if you're smart, if you aren't smart, I should say you increase your chance of doing something that isn't smart and then you're going to make some kind of mistake that will negatively impact you. So yes, being smart is very important. Now, there are some cases without question where physical strength and stamina is at least as important and sometimes more important. That's just the way it is. you might have to climb a cliff to escape the enemy. That's just the way it is.

You might have to swim. Mike Thornton. Mike Thornton swam for what five hours dragging two people. Now, he could be the smartest guy in the world, and which he did a damn good job of getting the life jackets and getting himself organizing a situation where it would be the easiest possible way for him to swim. Even with that, you still got to swim for five hours dragging two people

while you're wounded, by the way. So if he didn't have that physical strength at that point, that brain wouldn't matter. It wouldn't matter. So what's interesting about this is, guess what? A really smart person will get himself or herself the physical capabilities. That's what you'll do. The smart person, the really smart person,

will work their ass off to get in shape and to stay in shape. Because you can be smart to come up with the most brilliant plan in the world, but if you don't have the physical wherewithal to execute that plan, then that brilliant plan doesn't matter. So yes, you want to be smart, and yes, you want to be physically strong. You want to exercise your brain and your body as much as possible and get them both as mentally strong, get yourself as mentally strong, as physically strong as you possibly can.

And that's not just in the military. That's in life. in life. Somebody quoted on Twitter the other day. You don't know two plus two if you're dead. Like you can't add two plus two. So if you're investing all your time in being smart or you're investing all your time in that intellectual aspect of your life and then you let your physical aspect go.

Well, guess what? Now you're unhealthy. Now you die because you didn't take care of it. Now, what good is your brain now? Zero. Zero good. So good. Check.

Next wish. Jocco, how do you give feedback to someone without everyone taking it personal? I try to give criticism regarding their work or actions while not attacking their character. But unfortunately, many feel that it's personal. Yeah. Welcome to the world. Criticism. And I almost put a...

Okay. So there might be 0.000-0-1%. of the world that's really like open and ready for feedback, right? But most people, even when they say, even when they tell you, they want feedback, they don't want it. They don't want it. Like, let me give an example. If you, Echo Charles, were like, you made a video and it took you hours.

Brad, don't even. Right? You know what I'm saying? Like, you could come to me and say, hey, what do you think? And I was like, well, you know, I think you framed this up wrong. How? What's your reaction to that? I mean, there's no possible way that you're stoked on that.

They're just don't. Now, luckily, you know, we know each other. You can detach and be like, all right, I need to, he's, he doesn't, he's not pointing this out to me for no reason, whatever. But what I'm saying is, even when you're saying, hey, what do you think of this? And I criticize something that you work so hard on. There's no one in the world that's happy about that. Even when they ask for it.

So you have to flank people. That's what you have to do. Now, he's asking specifically, how do you do this? So here's some things. What one of the things that I do when I want to give some. one criticism, I don't give them criticism. What I do is I ask them questions about whatever it is. Now, this is interesting.

I'm not even talking about pointed questions. I'm not even talking about like hard questions. I'm not saying like, why did you do that? I'm talking about, hey, why did you do it that way? Like there's a big difference between like, hey, why did you do it that way? Like instead of saying, hey, echo, that frame doesn't look good. Hey, why did you frame that up like that? Right?

So now I'm getting you to think about it. right but I'm not going to say do how are you going to make that work you know I'm going to say well hey do you think you're going to be able to make that work if if you did something and it doesn't go well I'm not going to say you know did you actually think that was a good idea instead I'm going to say it's again it's not point of question I'm going to say well did hey did that unfold the way you thought it was going to unfold and now you're going to get to answer the question. Now you're going to be the, you're going to be the person that uncovers the fault. It's going to be you, not me. And that makes it so much more palatable to everyone when they're

able to say, oh yeah, you know, I saw this over here. And most of the time, the person knows the truth. Most of the time, the person knows that that thing's not framed up right. They know that their idea wasn't that great. So you don't need to punch them in the face with it, because that's actually going to make them get defensive. So you flank them, you ask them the questions, you talk about it, you discuss the subject. And what you do is you guide them. You guide them to a mirror. You guide them to a mirror and then and then you just have to look in that mirror You set them up so they have to look in that mirror

So that they can see the problems themselves and once they see the problems themselves They can start to correct them now sometimes you sometimes it's your ego That once even once they see the problem themselves The people want them to take credit for showing that this leads and so you got to check your ego You got to make sure that your ego isn't saying I want to prove to this person that I I know how to frame this up better then you got to put that all in check you got to just let you got to let them have it so now are there situations where you can give really good frank feedback yes there is but you have to have a good relationship with that person a really good really good relationship with that person and then usually

one of the best ways to to to make this happen is that the feedback the negative feedback is going both ways meaning I want to get negative feedback about my performance from that person so that there's some equanimity in what's being said amongst us, right? So I might be, you know, I might say, hey, echo. Hey, man, I, you know, I did this, I answered this question on Q&A. Did you think that was a good answer? Because I think, you know, I think could have been better. And then you say, yeah, you know, you dragged on, you talked too long and whatever.

You give me some critique. And then I go, oh, yeah. Hey, and by the way, the lighting on that didn't look good. Right. And so now we have a little mutual criticism and it's all good. It makes a little bit more palatable to you because I made the thing.

And so that sometimes works. But what's interesting is even when you do that, some people just don't even freaking care. And they, even after they just tear you apart and then you throw a little, little, like a little nick

on their shoulder, on their arm. You give them a little nick about something that wasn't right. They still get, you know, so you have to be really, you have to have a really great relationship with that person to be able to have just that straight

straight feedback but build relationships ask them questions let them find their own faults if you can and be their guide let them to guide them to that mirror guide them to their faults now of course there are some people that won't even find their own faults no matter how you guide them and how hard you try and twist them to look in the mirror you have to let you have to let you Let them know. You actually have to come out and say what's going on. You have to be more direct. Now, luckily, if a person is the type of person that fails to see their own faults,

they begin to fail, right? Because they're making mistakes. That's why they're faults, right? They're making mistakes. And when they see that, when you see that and you see that their project is failing or you see that their people are revolting against them or you see that they're missing deadline after deadline, they know that too. And then what you're doing is you're coming to them.

basically as like a concerned friend that really wants to help them win and and pointing out some of these obvious failures that they might not be you know aware of and you still got to be gentle about this but when you come to them you can come to them as a friend as a as a person that really wants them to win and you can come out out of there looking like the good guy trying to help them get their their self back on track. So those are some of the

some of the basic strategies that I used to help people do a little course correction if people need a little criticism so that they can improve their game for themselves, for the team, etc. Good.

Tough business, man. That's my input. People aren't, people aren't, people don't like criticism. Yeah. You're to tell you. Yeah, they like praise. You know how And, you know, the other side of this coin, if you're a person, which you are, and you don't like criticism, which you don't, if you can open your mind to the criticism, man, you're going to be so, you're going to get so much better about everything that you do.

If you can just listen to people without getting ego crazy and thinking, what do you know about this? Yep. Just listen. It's true. Just listen. Just listen. You know what they have to say. They're trying to help you.

Yeah. Right? We assume that they're trying to help us. Yeah. Listen to him. I don't know. Yeah. Are there times when they're not?

Absolutely. Yeah, because if you go in with the assumption that this person's just trying to cut me down, well, then that's not going to get you anywhere. Yeah. But if you make the assumption, you know what? I'm going to listen to what this person has to say. What's wrong with that? Even if it's an assumption, and we're not supposed to assume.

If I assume, you know what, I'm going to assume that Echo is giving me criticism right now because he wants me to do better. And I'm going to take them as as face value as I can. Yeah. That he is trying to help me get better. Boom. Yeah. Yeah.

And yeah, that's actually really correct. If you start at that point, that's your default, right? Hey, this criticism is to help. Now, I might look at your criticism and I analyze it from a detached perspective. And I go, I think actually Echo is just trying to drag me in the wrong direction because he's jealous. And I might get to that point. Yeah. And it'll be way more obvious.

It'll be way more obvious. If you started at that other point where it's like, okay, it's here. But if you're just default, oh, he just wants to try to look like he knows everything or he just wants to, you know, make, if you start that. place to be. Yeah, you can't even kind of discern, you know, if that really is happening or not. Not the place to be. Not the place to be. Next question.

Jocko. What's the best way to combine striking and grappling with self-defense in mind? Never heard you mention MMA in this context. Only Jiu-Jitsu with gloves on. Consequently, how the teams adapt MMA-based training to real situations. What's your take on Army's modern Army combatives? So a few questions there. How do you best learn to combine striking and grappling?

Well, what you do is you combine striking and grappling. That's how you get good at it. You put on the big gloves. We used to call it shoot boxing. That was like a block of training that we doing with guys that were fighting MMA. You put on the relatively big boxing gloves, and then you mix in takedowns with them. So that's great. You should do that.

You can do that with kids, too. You can do that with kids where you put the big boxing gloves on kids and you have them shoot those double legs all day long. So when somebody takes a swing on them, they know how to set up, they know the timing, they start to get familiar with it. Because in a way, well, takedowns are easier in MMA because the person is not solely defending against a takedown. They're defending against punches. They're defending against kicks. So they have to be in a different stance.

And so that's the way it works. If you want to train to get combined striking grappling, you have to combine them together. better. And, you know, if I've only mentioned it with Jiu-Jitsu with gloves on, man, I've done a ton of MMA sparring with fighters, like a ton with gloves, with big gloves, shoot boxing, little gloves, everything. And I don't know why I haven't talked about it much, but yeah, I've done a ton of it. And that's how I know, like, taking someone down with, that's trying to punch you is easier. Now, it sucks when you get punched. But it is easier than going against someone that's just trying to wrestle you and has a different stance, a lower stance and all that. So yeah, that's how

you do it. You put, you put big gloves on and then also you can do, you can drill with big gloves on where someone's trying to punch you while they're in your guard or while you're punching while someone's trying to punch you while they're mounted. You can do that with slaps too, right? Like I mount you and I'm just start slapping you because then you realize if these were punches, you'd be in serious trouble. So yeah, you can mix those things in and mix them together. Don't get hurt, be careful, but yeah, you can definitely mix them. So now the next question was how do the teams adapt MMA-based training? Well, the big concepts are the same. The big concepts are exactly the same. You're going to have to close the distance. Like, you've got someone that's unarmed that you're

going to need control of. Well, you've got to close the distance. You've got to take them down. You've got to get control of them. You've got to submit them or subdue them somehow. That can happen. You've got to be able to break away. If somebody grabs you, you've got to be able to break away. You've got to be able to get up off the ground. There's some large muscle movements that are exactly the same. The striking parts are exactly the same. Someone's, you know, you want to clear someone or, or you want to punch someone to get them, you know, a little bit disoriented before you get control of them. Yeah, that's, that's what you're doing. That's what, that's what boxing is, you know.

And so those things aren't, there's so much of it that overlaps that the adaption doesn't have to be barely anything. The adaption comes in and we have to do some additional training, some additional concepts that you're moving with gear on, that you have to be able to. protect your weapons and your weapon systems. So you want to be aware of where your rifle is, where your pistol is, where your knife is, so that people can't get a hold of it. Weapons retention, so that becomes part of it. The fact that you're working with another person,

usually a partner, a shooting buddy, that's gonna cover and move for you. So if I go to take a guy down, I gotta be aware of where my partner is in case that person that I'm trying to take down gets the upper hand or has a weapon that I didn't see so that my partner can get a clear shot. So there are tactical things that you do have to add in, but the fundamental concepts,

there's, they're, they're so transferable. They're so transferable that it's, it's, it's like, you know, I, it's like, you know, it's a gea and no-gi, right? It's a gea-no-y. If someone is awesome at ghee, they're going to be good at no-gey. And will, are there some concepts that you need to learn? Yeah, there's some little things. But there's an overlap is huge, baseball and softball, right? If someone played college, baseball and now they're playing on their local restaurant softball team they're going to crush it right it's not the exact same sport longboard surfing versus shortboard surfing right if someone's a great surfer on a shortboard they're going to be decent on a longboard they might they're not

good they might not win the world champ like if someone's awesome no gee and they don't really train ghee they're not going to win the worlds but they'll be they'll be damn good one of the things that I used to, well, okay, shooting, shooting. You got combat shooting, but then you just have competitive target shooting, right? Is competitive target shooting the same as combat shooting? No, there's no explosions, there's no movement, or oftentimes, no, there's competition where they do have movement too. And the more close it is, the better it's going to be.

But if you're a competitive rifle shooter and you, and then you do combat shooting, it is definitely, there's a ton of crossover. One of the things that I used to talk about a lot when people, would question, hey, well, MMA fighting isn't, it's not good for the seal teams because you don't have any gear on. One of the examples that I used a lot was guys that were really into parachuting.

And, you know, when you jump in the civilian world, you don't have a rucksack, you don't have a weapon, you don't have night vision goggles, you don't have any of that stuff. And yet, if you have a thousand jumps as a civilian with a slick rig on, you're going to be infinitely better at the military skydive

with the weapon and the rucksack and the night vision and all that you're going to be infinitely better it's the same exact thing are there some little things that you're going to have to figure out some details where that where they don't completely overlap yes absolutely um so there you go so i guess when you train jihitsu wrestling boxing moitai there if you're in the military you know you also have to make sure that you carve out time where you think about the other components right about being gear on what that what changes when you have your gear on how to protect your weapons all that stuff that i talked about about working with other people about the tactical situations that you're in because there's going to be some tactical situations that you're in if you're not thinking straight

you're going to have a problem you ever you ever had somebody that goes well jihitsu's not good for self-defense because what are you going to do pull guard in the street it's like no you're never going to pull guard in the street yeah or you shouldn't as if pulling guard is like the only thing jitza has to offer yeah but here's the well the fact is if someone takes you down in the street and you don't know the guard, what are you going to do? You're going to get your face smashed. Yes, sir, he will. So you've got to cover both angles, but there's so much overlap that if you get good at the fundamentals of MMA, you will be really good at the, what you need to know with the additional concepts on military tactical types type situations. As far as modern Army combatives, it's a great

solid foundational program and created by some great martial artists that were in ground floor. I think Matt Larson is the guy that kind of is the grandfather of or father of. I don't know if he's old enough to be grandfather. He might even be my age, so I don't know. Sorry, Matt. But yeah, I mean, he put together a great system. And it's a great fundamental system. Could someone pick apart some aspect of the Army?

Sure, you could. You look at the whole system. It's a great solid system to get people started out on. So props. I mean, any system you can kind of say that for. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can. You can.

You can. And that's why it's important. That's why I said foundational system, right? Because it's a great foundational system because once you learn it, you don't learn the army combatants and then say, okay, well, good now. You don't need to train anymore. That's not the right answer. The right answer is you have a good foundation.

Now keep building on it. Yeah. That's the answer. Yeah, I remember I used to train for MMA and Pank. creation. Remember that? And it's trained for a while. And the sparring element of it, you know, there's three faith because there's, you know,

even if you're training MMA, you're going to train striking one day and maybe even specialized striking stuff one day and then, you know, wrestling and grappling and jiu-tzeing one day. But you have MMA sparring, which is a full MMA fight with big gloves. And, you know, may or may not have shimpaz or whatever, but it's essentially an MMA fight. And that is 100% incorporating grappling and striking. and take that it's everything you know so it's kind of like one of those things where you get to train to fill in those gaps between okay one moment i'm striking one moment i'm grappling and the

strikes while you're grappling you know and there's and there's some there's some inconsistencies because if you were striking with big gloves then you can't grab someone's hands the way you would with the little gloves on but like you said what it does is it fills in the gaps yeah so yeah and that's what the training is for so like um you know if you're you know you know you know if you like to play guard or you have a slick game from guard or whatever, if you train, like an MMA training or training with strikes and stuff like that, it'll really expose where you're in danger in a real fight because that guy's going to, you know, that guy's going to punch you in the face down there.

So it's a faster-paced thing. So it just builds your awareness of it. So I remember that even when I just go back to regular jiu-jitsu or whatever, it's like, man, I feel super aware of it. Like, almost like you're anticipating, okay, I can get punched from here. I actually think about that all the time. I always think, like, I'll be rolling with Taylor. Yeah, and because Taylor is an, like Andy, I don't think about it as much because Andy's more of a jitoo fighter.

But, you know, Taylor, he's an MMA fighter. And so if he's on top of me for around, like he's in the top half guard. Yeah. And when we get done, I'll be like, I'm glad that wasn't MMA because you would have pulverized my head. Yeah. You know? And now, do some gaps open up when people start punching? Yeah, they do.

Is there an opportunity? Yeah, there is. But you're going to take some shots. Yeah. Well, and then at the end of the day, all. All that is part of it. You know, so it's like if you're, okay, so here's a scenario I'd find myself in where the guy I'm going to get. This is a way better striker than me, like way more experience and just better.

But my jihits is way better. So it's like, dang, I got to get this guy to the ground. So if we don't, when we train this, I get that practice to be, okay, I'm going to use this guy striking to like get around them or something like that. I'm not going to like stand here and try to strike with him. You beat up this training. But you do have to stand there long enough to get them to think. to get them to forget about you taking them down. Yeah, fully.

That's what I always, and you see that in MMA fights too. Right. You can't just go in there and start shooting on the guy because they know that you're going to try and take him down because they know their ground game is worse. And so they're going to defend that takedown. Exactly right. You got to get them thinking about that knock out.

Right. They're going to knock you out. Sometimes it takes two minutes. Sometimes it takes three minutes. Sometimes it takes a round and a half before you take your first shot. Yeah. And really, to be real with you, it's, that's what this training is for. So in the beginning, you might not even be able to take that guy down

because you're like, oh, I know, this guy, he's that jujitsu guy. Now he's come training with us. He's going to try to take me down. And he's just going to beat you up from the outside. And actually, yeah, what he'll do is he won't even beat you up. He won't even commit to his punches because he doesn't want to overstep and give you any advantage on your takedown.

Yeah. So he'll just stand it. Like you said, standing the outside, just tacking you in the face. And I say that because that's kind of what happened to me. So I'd go in and then, of course, they'd just stay away or sprawl because they know it's coming kind of thing. And then, you know, as you reset from the straw, sprawl, he bit, put, but one, two, kind of on the separation.

I don't know. stuff yet. Yeah, no. Just all around, no. You know, I got zero takedowns. I'm saying it's funny because when you say, you know, you take a one, two as you're getting away. But that punch is thing, boy.

They stick boy. Yeah. But after a while, that's what I'm saying. You get that training. Just through the training. You're like, okay, I know how this is now. It's not like jihitsu where I can kind of, you know, just go and lock up. And if I don't get the take down a pole guard kind of thing, these guys, they're not

trying to grapple with you. They're trying to stand back up. You get that training, you know? So when you want you. up, you know, being able to take them down and all this stuff, you can, like, you'll have just way more of an advantage because you're aware of all these different elements that you might not get in just jujitsu class. You might get them, but you probably, probably don't. You get a guy who always wants to stand up.

Right, in jujitsu class. Try, well, roll with a guy in jujitsu, just straight jihitsu, who only wants to stand up, who just would rather die than be in the bottom, it's so annoying. It's annoying. It's challenging. It's something you need to learn to contend with because there are tactics that you can use as the guy on top to keep them down there. Exactly right and you get MMA guys, especially if you're better than them at like the jiu jitza element of it, that's what they're going to do. So that's the training you're going to get.

Yep. Check. Boom. Next question. Jocco, as a leader of a team or business has decided to, okay, as a leader of a team, our business has decided to terminate one of my people. I disagree with their logic, but I'm not in a position to change the decision. What should I do to retain my influence to support the rest of my team, yet not compromise my values? That's a good question.

That's a solid question. That's a tough question. It's a little bit tricky without the details of the situation. But, you know, I wonder what kind of relationship that, the person that asked the question, I wonder what kind of relationship you have with the senior leadership that makes those decisions because you got to remember that our goal is to always have the relationships up the chain of command so that you can influence those decisions. And if you have that kind of relationship,

then you can find out why that decision got made. And there might be things that you didn't know about, some kind of strategic outcome that the decision, you know, has had an impact on, right? So if you didn't know it, but this guy had some kind of criminal situation going on and you didn't know it, then they can't talk about it because it's in legal case.

Okay, if you don't know, don't speculate, just go and ask. and then you can take whatever those reasons are and you can articulate them, you know, down the chain of command. And again, you want to ask this question in a smart way. You don't want to say,

why did Bill get fired? Hey, why did Bill get fired? No, you said, hey, you know, from my perspective, it seemed like Bill was doing a good job. I want to kind of understand what you were seeing so that I can lead people better. If there's anything that I can make up for, I want to make sure I'm leading people,

you know, like all those things. You want to help their ego and make them feel good and make them feel like you're on board of the program and not make them feel like you're going and they're questioning their call because that's just an attack on their ego. So this is all these things. It's the basic things, right?

The fundamental, I hate calling it basic. These are the fundamental things, right? This is the way it is. Standard, I should just say standard. That's what I should say. It's standard stuff. You're trying to build a relationship.

You don't want to go in, butt your head up against their ego. Then they get more defensive. And next thing you know, they're going to fire another one of your guys on your team just to prove a point. You can get yourself, you can dig yourself that whole.

But if you make your goal, hey, I'm going to build a relationship with my boss. That's what you are trying to do. Now, if you find out why, then you can articulate that to the rest of the team. And the way that you maintain your values is by maintaining your values. Okay. So just because there's a situation that a decision that gets made that you don't agree with

doesn't mean that you compromised your values. Like your boss can make a decision and that does that that you don't agree with. That doesn't mean that your values are compromised unless it's like an illegal or it's an, immoral or it's an unethical situation which by the way a firing could be one of those things right the guy could be firing because he wasn't you know what wouldn't hey he wouldn't give me the keys to the vehicle for the weekend so I could use it on my private time and I'm going to fire him now like that's unethical right there's a problem there so now your values definitely if you just remain silently you're kind of compromising your values so there are times when you may have to stand up

But bosses make decisions. That's what they do. And we do our best to influence them. Now, if they decide something we don't like, then yes, we ask why. And if we don't like their explanation, then we try and explain our case. We try and explain why we thought Bill should have not been fired. Now, you're not always going to be right. You're not always going to be right.

And let me tell you something else. Don't argue about six and one, half dozen the other. Bill might have been on the fence and they decided, you know what, we've had enough trouble with Bill. we're getting rid of them. And maybe there's valid reasons why Bill should have said, but it's like it could have gone. It's 60-40. Are you going to put your reputation and your relationship with your boss on the line over

that little thing? Now, again, I understand firing people is a big deal. It's not small. It's not a little thing. Especially you have a good relationship. He's on your team. He's got kids. You know, like all these things are there.

So what are you going to do about it? Are you going to break down and negatively impact your relationship? with your boss over this so that in the future you have even less influence, what happens when they go to fire Mike? And you haven't, and all you did was go, hey, why did you do this? This was stupid.

They're going to fire Mike and they're not going to listen to a damn thing you said. You want to build a relationship with him. You can explain what your viewpoint is and what you would have done. Now, this is like down, this is talking to your team. You can explain what your viewpoint was

and what you would have done. But you also, you don't want to, you want to be just. As long as you explain, if you explain that, hey, I would have done something different, and you also explain that the boss, it was a tough decision, and the boss made the call, and that the best thing that we can do as a team is support the boss so we can garner more influence over these situations in the future, that's good. And you know what?

One of the best things you could do here with your team is you can even explain that it's your fault. The decision got made, right? You say, look, I haven't built a good enough relationship with the boss. That's why he fired Bill. I'm working on it. I'm going to do it better. We're going to give him the support that he needs so we can stop this type of thing from

this type of thing from happening in the future. So you don't want to throw your boss under the bus. It's much, much better to take ownership of it all day, all day. If you throw your boss under the bus and you create an antagonistic relationship, it's bad for you, it's bad for your boss and it's bad for your team and it's bad for your whole organization. I get it. And there's a dichotomy here because if your boss totally fired someone with not good reason

and it was a great guy, and if you just jump on board of the boss, you're going to look weak. So do you have to balance that? Yes, you have to be honest with your people. You have to explain what's going on. That's why I think taking ownership is one of the best things to do.

Your boss does something that's totally out of line. Hey, look, here's what the boss did. This is my fault. And here's what I'm going to do to fix it. I'm going to build a better relationship. I'm going to get more influence. That's what I need to do. I obviously let you guys down.

I'm not going to let it happen again. That brings your team closer to you. Rather than saying, hey the boss was boss an idiot he doesn't get it you guys your people don't actually even respect that by the way they don't actually even respect that yeah I'm not saying they say hey that's a boss's decision and that's you know what we just support the boss I'm not saying that it's a dichotomy it's a balance that you have to you have to carefully walk compromise compromise on decisions and directions and plans doesn't hurt you know he's talking about compromising it's like

Compromise is okay. That's what it is. Compromise is okay. Again, as long as you're not compromising your personal values, your ethics, but compromising about a decision, that's the way the world works. Don't let your ego get into it. Don't let your ego. So keep building relationships, take ownership of the decisions,

and support the team, keep building relationships, not just up the chain of command, but down so that you can bring it all together. Next question. question frogman do you think it's always a bad thing to be thought of as slightly unapproachable as a leader yeah so this is another question about the dichotomy of leadership it's another question about balance and it's a strangely worded question by the way from this this uh scotsman who i know it's because he uses the question all he uses the word always and usually always is always a never right when you use those, they usually don't hold up.

Is it always a bad thing? Yeah, yeah. But then he kind of, he kind of softens the always by saying slightly unapproachional. So we give him a fairly low grade on his question. But luckily, the concept of the question, we give him a high grade, which is, is it, is it, should you be unapproachable, slightly unapproachable? Should you be? That's the real question. you be slightly unapproachable as a leader well there's this is this is a question about dichotomy

the question is about balance do you want to have people approach you about every little problem issue as a boss do you want to have that happen no you don't know right do you want to be the easy button where you have to answer every single question and make every decision no if you're too approachable that's where you're going to find yourself now at the same time at the other end of the spectrum do you want your team to never approach you ever because you're unapproach Yeah. No, you don't want that. Do you want them to be scared or intimidated from giving you good honest feedback or good suggestions about the way you're doing things? Do you not want that to happen because you're too unapproachable? Of course not. So those are the dichotomies. You can be too approachable and be the easy button or you can be too aloof and too distant and too unapproachable that you don't even know what's happening on the front lines and you don't get any input from them. The extremes are bad. So what? What you want to do is you want to balance those two dichotomies.

Be in the middle. Be approachable, but not overly approachable. And you'll be good. Pretty straightforward. I think we've got time for one more. Sure. And Jocco. What do you do when you're broken?

What do I do when I'm broken? I relish it. That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to use it. Because if I'm broken, And then I just found my limitations. And until I know what my limitations are, how can I push them?

What can I get better? But once I see it, once I feel it, once I see where I was broken, then I can attack that weakness. I can fill in that gap. If you break, it means it's time to fortify your will. to make it stronger. And look, there's,

there's all kinds of different ways to break. You can break physically. You can break mentally. You can break your heart. You can break your spirit. And none of those are fun. And all of those are going to leave a mark that they leave.

Victory, every time you break. And in every way that you break, while it's a chance, it's definitely a chance for you to give up and for you to just to fall apart but there's also opportunity to get stronger and get smarter and get faster and get tougher and get more stable and get more resilient and get show the world the whole world what you are really made of so so if you break if if you break the fight isn't over break the fight is just beginning and as you crawl up and out of that dismal and wretched place

covered and you're covered in blood and sweat and dirt and filth as you rise above what you were and as you take the form of of who you are supposed to be you will see that in the very act of standing up, in the very act of fighting on, you will become and you will remain unbroken. For tonight, so echo Charles, speaking of getting stronger and faster and tougher and better. Sure, better. Maybe you've got some ways we could, you know, support ourselves with those goals. Yeah, facilitate getting better and strong. I like it push the breaking point I'll tell you that that'll push your breaking point

especially the the joint warfare part you like that one coming right in coming in hot no less okay so start with the origin right origin American made yeah we're at the origin immersion camp right now you're sorry that you're not here actually we're up here in Maine or we're happy that you are here or yeah if you're here we're here yeah definitely there's a lot of people in the game there's a lot of people in the game. A lot of people heard us say on the podcast come to the origin camp and they're here. And guess what? In force. Yeah.

In force. It's awesome. Every level. How many black belts are here? Dang, I don't know. A lot. Yeah. How many white belts are here? A lot. Yeah. How many people have never trained jiu-jitsu? A lot. A decent number. Okay. To get to put into context, this is, I think we had to do this, right? Or we just do. Nonetheless, this is what we did. We're breaking up. Yeah. So everyone convenes in the

morning, right? We're on the big mats. And they're like, who hasn't had any experience at all or, you know, under however a month or something like that, go with Jocko guys over here to this other mat. The other mat was full. It was full. Yeah, yeah. So it's like, it's late. The point is it's not just like people who want to just, you know, get after their jiu-jitsu game and they've been in it for, you know, years and years.

And they want to camp out and do jitza. It's not that. Yeah. And it's cool. There's a lot of different instructions. Like, like yesterday. the Deco and I taught the new jiu jitsu people

today I think it was Deco and Haifa and I stayed down with the the colored belts right? I think there's I think there's probably the same number of black belts here as people that their first day

ever on the mats was here. Yeah, yeah I think it's about the same number what? Like 20 20 of each 20 people that have never trained jiu jihitsu before and 20 people have their black belts in jiu-jitsu. There's like those two. And then there's everyone in between.

This guy, I was talking to this guy. He's like, he goes, yeah, today's my second day. I was like, oh, yeah, right on where, where, when was your first day? Where was? He goes, oh, yeah, here yesterday. I was like, oh, yeah, I forgot. I came one day after you guys got. It's like sweet.

Crazy. So that's where we are right now. Yep. Took everyone to the factory. Yeah. The origin factory in Farmington, Maine. Saw where everything is made. Yeah, big time.

So what do we have? Gis. Rashgar, there's a new guy. You guys were extra fired up about. Extra, extra fired. Oh, is that a DL thing? It's definitely, well, we can't show anybody, but we do have a new ghee coming. Yeah.

And we'll say it's very awesome. Legit. Yeah. Nonetheless, speaking of geese, origin, the best geese, the best geese hands down. Everyone knows already. It's like, what do you call it? It's common knowledge. Anyway, made in America.

100% made in America. Also, Rashgarts. All kinds of jihis-s stuff. Those shorts those new shorts they came out with approved big time Yeah, but yeah they got some some sweatsuits too joggers shirts and whatnot all good stuff Supplements yeah you know the supplements these are supplements that How do I pick what supplements I'm gonna make it's supplements that I've taken yeah and dial them in the protein the milk Tastes good is good no sugar

What's it got one carb two carbs something like that? Yeah Something like that Just a little Tasty Dessert Dess But it was really what I did

Yeah You were talking about joint warfare We got joint warfare We got Criol Oil all good We got discipline You pre I saw a lot of people

drinking discipline Like heading to the maths A lot of people drinking that discipline Yeah man Someone said it was in that big cooler I didn't go over there In check That would make sense

Yeah It's So that's we got that that's origin main orgen main dot com you get all that that's our company we're making all this stuff and we're going to keep making stuff until until we make everything that we use that's the goal yeah yeah and these are especially the joint stuff man that the joint stuff one is the one that's like it every day go to in my case that's milk too where i'm every day i'm pounding milk on the mulch yeah and and you you surprised me earlier because i asked you because you always say you're on

the milk train fully or you say you're fully on the milk train. Usually you say you're on the milk train fully. Is it sir? I am. And I asked you, could someone be partially on the milk train? And you said that that was in fact possible. I don't know how that's possible. But how many milk a day certifies you as being on the milk train?

At least one a day. Okay. That's pretty, that's doable. That's not crazy. But if you're pounding milk every day, That's the Monk Train, regardless. But when you're fully on the Moatray. Oh, okay. That's like...

Howie Mokade is fully on the Mok trade. That's like two, sometimes three. Yeah. Yeah. Imagine. So basically with every meal... Two scoops? No, no.

Two situations. To me, two scoops is minimum for one. That's one drink. Minimum. See, that's the thing is I've got this new thing where I do these little hitters. Yeah. I'm not on the hitters. Me and Theo Vaughn.

We're hanging out. We were talking about hitters. But he doesn't even know about Mokkadeers. I gotta send him some milk. Yeah. So he can have a hitter. A hitter is one scoop. One scoop, it doesn't, that's a thing is it doesn't make,

because when I have a double shot of milk, I'm full, right? There's no, there's no room. Yeah. You know, I'm not, and I'm going to take some time to digest, right? That's a meal. Basically, you just ate a steak, a big one. That's how I feel. Yeah.

Well, now, if I have a one scoop, hitter, right? Just get one of those hitters. Sure. Hitter. Then you can go. Yeah, you can keep moving. You can work out like 45 minutes later. You can be in the gym.

Yeah, okay. Be on the mat. That makes sense. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I don't take it. Like, I'll do it for it. Every time, like, if I work out, that's, I'll eat after I work out. Yeah. Well, most of the time.

But, okay, so here's a situation. Got home the other day, woke up in a crappy hotel somewhere early in the morning, early morning flight. Woke up, didn't work out at the hotel early morning because I knew I was heading back to my house where I could be in my home gym. So wait, it got home, was hungry. Did a hitter. did it okay yeah because i was hung because the neck the night before guess what didn't eat

yeah why didn't eat was working so got home it was i don't know it was like 10 got home wanted to want to eat something but still wanted to work out before lunch hitter okay yeah makes sense yeah and then boom still got work to do yeah and then guess what lunchtime came it wasn't that hungry yeah that hit her sure yeah man so you just sort of fit it in your whole thing yeah but you Yeah, and then consider the joint warfare and the krill oil. Boom, every day, joints squared away. Yeah. I didn't mean for that to rhyme, but it does.

It's all good. Skills. Also, good way to support. We have a store. Technically, Jocco has a store. I help make it so we have a store. Affirmative. Either way, it's called Jocka store.

Anyway. Rash guards are available. Rash guards under a ghee. Yes or no. What's your opinion? Well, yeah, whatever you like. First of all, some people, mandate it. There's some schools that

it is mandatory. You will wear a rash guard under your ghee. There's some schools where you're not allowed to are you allowed, can you wear them in a turn, some tournaments you're allowed to, some tournaments you're not allowed to. There's some rules out there. So find that out and then you can get one of these rash guards that say something on. I'm like, get after it or something like that.

Yeah. And yeah. Rashguards, T-shirts, you can get hats. Yeah. Some good hats on there. Yeah. FlexFit. If you're into it, okay, Jocco's not into Flex Fit. Yeah. Okay, I dig it.

Did we figure out the numbers yet? Figure out which more popular? No. Which one do people like more? We don't know yet. We don't know yet. I don't know. I remember the flex fit phase,

but I think we're out of it, man. I think we're back to, I think everyone in America's back to truckers. Oh, like that's kind of what we're doing now? I think that's what America. I think America's on board with trucker hats. I could be wrong though, because we know my fashion sense is completely in the dark.

Non-existent. Yeah, yeah, you're right. You're right about that. So yeah, I don't know. I'll find out and report back. But if you want a shirt, you know, these shirts, the ones that say discipline equals freedom, boom. That's where you can get them, Jocko store.

Also the one with Jocko's head on it. This is good. More than a few people have said, hey, man, I really like, you know, your stuff, but I'm not wearing a shirt with your giant head on it. Yeah, it's not for everybody. It's not for everybody. Somebody said, hey, is there a shirt with your head on it to me?

Oh. and it reminded me, well, yes, it is. One jaco designed. The dang shirt. Actually, yeah, so that's one little factoid. What's a factoid? Small fact. That many people don't know.

A lot of the designs that we're part of, like, you know, echelon front and, you know, some of these designs, you made the designs. You didn't make the official one, but you, like, with your left hand or whatever, like, drew the design. The concept is mine. Yeah. The concept is mine.

But you physically drew it though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not like you said, hey, I wanted to do this and say that. You like drew it out. A picture's worth a thousand words.

I'm not writing you a thousand word paragraph and what that echelon front signal or what the Jocko podcast thing is going to look like or what the Jocka white tea, whatever. It's going to draw it. But here it is. Do it. Yeah,

so you're technically a designer. You're the idea guy. Yeah, yeah. People don't know that. Now they do. Nonetheless, it's called jococococor.com. Yeah, man. get something represent big time.

Big time. Also, subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already on iTunes and Stitcher if you have Android. That's the big one for Android. Okay. I think they have iTunes for Android. I don't know. Either way, whatever you use to stream podcast, subscribe if you haven't already. Don't forget about the Warrior Kid podcast working on.

We've got 16 out right now, I think. Maybe 17 out right now. But anyway, it's more common on that. and a lot of the good feedback I'm getting is that the kids want to listen to them over and over and over again, which is kind of cool. So I'll make more so kids can listen to more of them. And there's stuff in there. It's Uncle Jake answering questions. You might think it's like questions up for little tiny kids that you don't get anything out of.

I think that's just talking to some people at camp. I was talking to this one girl and she was saying, yeah, she's like, I'm totally into the Warrior Kid podcast. Come on, I'm on number 10 right now. It's really good. She's like, those questions are for everybody. I'm like, hey, right on. So, yeah. Uncle Jake has a little something to teach everybody.

You know, that's the way it is. Also, YouTube, we got YouTube. YouTube channel, if you want to see Echoes, legit videos. We also owe the videos we spoke of, so we need to get those done. Maybe we get back to San Diego. Yeah. Life changing. Yeah, I want to say life changing, but they're two instructional life videos.

Yeah, tips. Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah, that's much more appropriate. That's good. you can also see Echoes legit videos enhanced

enhanced videos too sure yeah yeah YouTube's a good on good way to support also on it on it dot com slash jaco by the way it's where you can get good workout gear

legit workout gear want to vary up your workouts also they have a lot of cool other stuff there's this tri-blend peanut butter it's but it's not peanut butter it's peanut butter almond butter and I think cashew

so it's like an enhanced peanut butter scenario that's what you use it for it's good anyway they got a lot of cool stuff on there like that like warrior bars and whatnot warrior bars can be it's like a beef jerky but not jerky it's like a anyway look at it's good super um hot dense

in like protein and nutrient scenario anyway on it dot com slash jockle good spot don't forget we got the psychological psychological warfare album them that you can get that has discussions, tracks, if you will, about how to overcome some moments of weakness that you might hit. And we are working on the next one.

We're not quite there yet. So we're working on it. But yeah, psychological warfare, you can get that anywhere, iTunes, Google Play, whatever MP3 platforms are out there. Yeah, you get them. Also, Jock White T. Yes. The phenomenon.

It's funny. Like I know, and people know already, I know, I never really was into tea. Actually, even when the, what do you call it,

the dry tea came out, I was like, cool, because I was, you know, I'm on the buzz. You were just, you were just playing,

you were just going along with it. But you weren't in the game. Here's the thing, though. I was going along with it. I was giving, I was like, what do you call?

I'm going to go back and listen to those podcasts and see if you are trying to act like you in the game, even though we now know you weren't. Well, that's going to make you whole,

your whole deal suspect. Put it this way. I was in the game, but it was like because I was like on the hype train. You know how like when I was like, hey man, everyone's doing this new thing and you're like, oh,

you just, that just made you sound worse. Well, hey man, that's the truth. Everyone's going to be suspect. How do we even know what you're saying right now?

It's true about it. Well, maybe it's all hype. Maybe, maybe not you got to find out for yourself. That's the thing. Eckler, are you on a mold train or in the hype train?

That's the question. Maybe this is just the thing. So I take, I'm like, hey, cool. cool but it kind of you know kind of wore off I don't drink tea that much but the cans came out and what am I doing pounding freaking tea all day is that hype no because I wouldn't be pounding it in every day that's true you're saying you wouldn't be texting me for more boxes to be delivered

to your home yeah if you weren't yeah the actual tea train yeah we wouldn't be running out I'll tell you that yeah that wouldn't be the case jp jp sends me pictures of just jockey white tees he asked me today how much how much how much how much much, is there any amount of Jocka white tea that's not healthy? Yeah, you gotta see you. He's like fully on the train. He might be one level over the train and into like the zone of whatever addiction. Yeah, so Jocko books, got some out there, Way the Warrior Kid, Mark's Mission, those two books.

Man, that's one thing. Being up here, how many, how many people have come up to me and said, my kids doing Jiu-Jitsu, my kids doing awesome school, my kids doing Pulps? Thank you so much for writing the Warrior Kid books. So if you want your kid to work out to train hard to eat right to study to do good in school Hey, those sounds like they might be good things. Yes, get your book get the way of the warrior kid Your kid is not going to listen to you as much as they're going to listen to an outside source Make the outside source something that you agree with something that's tell them to work hard

Study hard train hard way the warrior kid in Mark's mission Also got the Discipline equals freedom field manual I like seeing how many people give this as a gift to people. You know, just got this as a gift. I'll see that on social media. And then they get all stoked on it. So that's a little instruction manual

on how to get after it, period. If you want the audio version, it is not on Audible. It is on iTunes, Amazon, music, Google Play as an album. Extreme Ownership, that's the book that Laif and I wrote. Combat leadership lessons that you can apply to your business,

to your life dichotomy of leadership. Listen to podcast 138. We read a couple excerpts from it. That's coming out September 25th. If you want to get a copy of first a dish, order it now. If you want third a dish, fourth a dish, if you want to be walking around with a big flag that says, hey, I procrastinated, I'm a procrastinator.

I waited. I didn't execute. I didn't prioritize and execute I didn't keep things simple If you want to have that flag You want to sport that flag Hold off don't order it Get the fourth a dish

Those dishes are gonna go out quick Because here's the deal The the publishers They're conservative I know you know your first books Your first few books have sold well But you know that's no guarantee For the next one

We might just you know We probably should only run this many And we don't know Just to see We can run more Takes them a little bit more time for people to get them. It's okay. I'll live.

Like, no, actually, they won't. They'll actually die if they'll get any time. So get that first edition going. Now, this is cool. If we as a group order enough now, everyone in that first group will get first a dish. Because they'll print more first editions, which is the goal.

That way more people don't have to bear the shame. Yeah. And some people say, oh, I had first a dish, but I gave it away, and now I have a new one. Don't do that. Keep the first a dish. That's kind of like when you. Somebody sent me the British a dish of About Face.

First a dish, British a dish. It's a different cover of About Face. So somebody sent me from England, About Face, the book, England copy, British One. So I got that in my bookshelf. That's different. One day I want to take pictures. So I like have things that are the same.

Like when I have like I have flip flops. I wear flip flops around. Sure. I have nine pairs all the same. I have about face. I got 10, 12 copies of it just racked up. Cool. I got my same watch.

You know how many of these watches I got? I think I got six. One of them might be broken. No, a couple of them are broken, but I keep them for spare parts. Just in case you can fix your watch. What kind of running shoes do I have? It's all the same. Workout shoes.

My workout shoes, my running shoes are all the same. Boom. the what about my workout clothing were all the same never think about it what about that shirt that victory shirt is the same I don't need these I got I got a lot of them so I we could go in my house and just like take a picture of watches

flip flops sneakers shorts even my shorts I wear the same damn shorts all the time so we're just we're just doing it but for sending me and I'm I'm gonna send the person that sent me the British a dish I'm gonna send him some kind of coffee

of some books of mine. On top of that, we got a leadership consulting company. Me, Leif Babin, J.P. Denele, Dave Burke, Flynn Cochran, Mike Sorrelli. We solve problems through leadership. That's what we do. Now, if you want us to come in as consultants

and look at what your situation is and help you align your leadership, go to echelonfront.com. If you want one of us to come and speak to your company, go to echelonfront.com. That's what you don't call a speaking agency. Just go to echelonfront.com. We have the muster real close to sold out. I'm not sure if it's sold out yet.

But muster, zero zero six, San Francisco, October 17th and 18th, registered extreme ownership.com. That's the premier leadership conference in the world. Sure. I think so. Actually know in the universe. Sure. Because I don't think they have any good leadership conferences on Mars.

I think ours is better. Yeah. If they do have one. Yeah. It's probably all hot. Cold, so yeah. Muster zero six.

Occasion you still get questions like, hey, I'm 58 years old and I have a bad knee. Would I be able to do the muster? The answer is yes. The muster is anyone can do. The physical demands at the muster are very, very little.

If any, If you don't have to come and do the morning PTs, the morning physical training. You can completely not come to that. You're more than welcome to come. And if you come, you can just watch or you could come or you could do the minimum that you can do. And that's fine. So there's no minimum physical standards for participation at the muster. If you feel like you need to come, come.

And also on top of the muster, we have another event that we're doing for uniform personnel. So military law enforcement, border patrol, firefighters. Corrections officers. I've been adding that one in. Paramedics, other first responders. Roll call 0-0-01, September 21st in Dallas, Texas. It's a one-day leadership seminar for those folks in those dynamic leadership environments. Registration is going to close.

So you can also register for that and the muster at extreme ownership.com. And of course, we also now have EF Overwatch. We are connecting spec ops. veterans and the companies that want to hire spec ops veterans and combat aviation combat aviation and spec ops companies need leaders out there and we are we have leaders that we're connected with so we're trying to place them that's eFoverwatch.com and right now we've got an awesome response from all of our other brothers and sisters in the military so we're working on something right now to open up this to everyone

and until we see you at the muster or at the roll call or maybe we won't even see you until another year from now at the immersion camp next time in Maine but until then if you want to continue hanging out with us virtually we are all up on the interwebs on instagram twitter and on echo is at echo charles and i am at jocco willink and finally thanks to the military people around the world holding the worldwide. Thank you for your service and in America police law enforcement correctional officers, firefighters, border patrol, paramedics, other first responders. Thank you for holding the line here at home and to everyone else. Remember that life is not easy and it's not supposed to be easy life is a test and it's a hard test and sometimes you might do great on that test and that's Super but sometimes that test doesn't go so well then sometimes you might falter and sometimes you might fail and sometimes you might even break in when that happens use it

Use it to make yourself Faster and stronger and smarter and better and take a look at how and why you broke so that it does not happen again Identify your weaknesses come up with a plan of attack and and get after it. And until next time, this is Echo and Jocko.