Jocko Podcast - 143: Make the World Better. Even Just a Little Bit. Lessons from "A Vietnam Diary" from Peter Nash Swisher.

Episode Date: September 19, 2018

0:00:00 - Opening 0:04:24 - "A Vietnam Diary" Peter Nash Swisher. 1:23:30 - Final thoughts and take-aways. 1:35:46 - Support. 2:20:36 - Closing Gratitude.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 143 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. War is never what we think it is. It is butchery, stupidity, and hate. It is 90% boredom. It can be horrible beyond anything you have ever imagined. It can also be ludicrous and absurd.

and technologically refined. Tragically, its lessons are always forgotten only to be re-fought on still another battlefield. The Vietnam War was our first real media war, spanning the globe in outraged unreality, bringing videotaped death and destruction into countless homes, fermenting protests and political justifications.

affecting the world's generation it shattered our dreams of abstract morality and in horrible reality re-educated our youth to a third world of suffering they had never known and had now felt deep within their own countries worldwide Vietnam was a symbol of the times

the best of hopes turned inside out a fear of no return but for me and many others the Vietnam War was much more it was in a moment our survival and death in primitive sophistication our destruction and rebirth it was in short a long imprisoned cry of what we all were not This is a diary I kept while I was in Vietnam. It is, for the most part, unstructured, as many of us were, but all of it is true. History, someone once said, is trying to tell the truth through the most acceptable lie.

But this book is not about history. It only tells the truth as far as one person felt it. A frozen spark of time embracing one. American soldier in a Southeast Asian war and that right there is the introduction of a book it's it's a diary and it's written by a guy by the name of Peter Nash Swisher a man that was born in Oxford England his dad was actually in the Second World War and was killed coming home after the war and his mom eventually moved to Canada and then remarried to an American.

And Peter was adopted by that American father and grew up in Fort Atkinson, Wisconsin, and Louisville, Kentucky. That's where he grew up. That's where he graduated high school. And then he got his degree in American history in 1966 from Amherst College. And then he got his master's from Stanford in 1967. and in 1968 he was drafted into the army he went to OCS November that same year and by 1969 he was doing his tour in Vietnam and he definitely has a gift for writing and luckily he left a little bit of that gift

to be shared with us in this book of his which is called a Vietnam diary he starts off with a little prologue he's got some quotes in there and I pulled out one of the quotes from the prologue it says the ultimate explanation of Vietnam must come from those involved there an observer even when blood splatters his clothes remains outside the basic experience of Vietnam is to be bound to stay in that war for a year or until wounded or killed. No reporter can impose this shackle on himself. He is like a doctor in an asylum.

He can report with compassion and empathy. He can understand a great deal. But the final truth remains with those who must exist in madness or in the combat of their war. And that's actually a quote that he pulled from a guy named Arthur T. Hadley, who was a war correspondent. And that's very accurate. There's a huge difference between someone that's reporting the war, even though they're there. And you've seen the war reporters that are right next to the infantrymen.

And sometimes they're even carrying weapons. But there's a key component. That is that those guys can leave if they want to. And those soldiers cannot. They're there. They're going to have to do their year. And that's the way it works. And that's a huge difference.

psychological huge difference and and a real difference of reality and so the the diary starts off November 20th 1967 he's going through basic training in Fort Dix New Jersey pulled a little couple a little section out of that what's the spirit of the bayonet to kill what's the spirit of the bayonet to kill sergeant H and he refers everyone here just by the the first letter of their last name sergeant H was our third instructor another airborne veteran and one of the two survivors in his Vietnam company who came back alive once when his weapon jammed in combat he had killed two Viet Cong with his bayonet and his rifle bet but sometimes we heard

him screaming in his sleep you see this poncho you see it smell it It's got the same musty odor of the jungle smell the fungus smell it I wrapped up a lot of bodies in these ponchos you god damn stupid trainees you'll see you'll all be over there Yeah, I mean this is 1967 So you're starting to get trained by guys that are coming back from the war and They're gonna have a little bit of different attitude than if they were at peacetime guys although this is You know, the Korean War was shortly before this and the World War II. So you have a lot of veterans in the war at this time.

When I came in, when I was going through seal training, there was not a lot of combat veterans. There were some Vietnam guys for sure. But, you know, I was going through in 1991. So most of the Vietnam guys were getting towards the end of their career. I mean, the Vietnam War for the teams, what is it, 72, maybe the last platoons went over there. So they were at the end of their 20-year mark, you know, some of the things. the guys that stuck around for 30 years yeah sure Roger Aiden yeah for sure there's some of those old master chiefs absolutely but those weren't your primary instructors your

primary instructors were guys that have been in for five years and never seen combat so that all changed now of course with the current wars going on back to the book February 13th 1969 orders it's not very pleasant to get orders overseas the initial shock honestly scares you a lot you think Maybe I'll die. But later the endless reams of paperwork show you dying is not that simple. Take your plague, flu, typhus, and cholera shots, for example. One medical sergeant is Mack the knife, especially if you're on orders.

Then there's RVN training, an M16 rifle qualification, and press orientation, and a multitude of sign-out sheets. Do you have any overdue books at the post library? You think, yes, I do have an overdue book. Will they still send me to Vietnam if I keep it hidden under my laundry bag? June 1st, 1969, the last night. Before the plane leaves from Travis, you are together for the last time, stoic and brave. At least that's how it is in the movies. In reality, you are sick at heart in the mind and belly.

You talk of the past, pretending, but knowing what each suffers silently. It isn't very pleasant or romantic at all Why are we such stupid people? She sobs tears on sweat body close You love her fiercely Your country is another question entirely As usual I am skipping through portions of this book To make it short enough To cover on the podcast and actually I don't even know if this book is in publication anymore

I had a PDF file from back in the day and I don't even know where I got it from I googled it there's some PDF files floating around but get it and read the whole thing June 3rd 1969 H hour war should be dramatic like the movies sweating and landing in a craft hitting the beach under fire who'd believe I went to war in a pink orange Braniff International airplane with a stewardess and purple leotards wishing us a good trip on behalf of the captain and the crew going to war for Christ's sake in a pink orange airplane I used to think war was somewhat serious then this is again this is a lot of people don't realize this they use contract air they still do that sometimes and you'll fly over in a civilian plane

July 6th 1969 airborne clouding dust betrays a lonely convoy dirt smothered embraced in jungle vines and barren hills sullen crags and silence a flash of light below two more exploding lines we see toy trucks crawling clawing spitting snake-like steel Too small for life-sized war too far away for death So his first visions of combat he's looking down at it doesn't really it's he's admitting he's like too far away. It's not real for him That changes July 17th 1969 my first body I saw my first body lying west of Ply Coo stretched out on a poncho waiting to be airlifted back to the coast

He was gray-white and very dead Even today I can see his gaping bloody mouth gasping for air A young kid who couldn't have been more than 20 years old and I thought Christ He's really really dead I remembered some James Bond and John Wayne's sequels and those TV melodramas where the American love for violence is only make-believe where the movie and TV casualties

can always get up and go home probably in time for supper but this kid would not he would make Walter Cronkite's CBS News report as just another figure changing 229 American battle deaths report this week to 230 instead and then everyone including the president would turn to watch the Monday night football game on channel 5 and here was my first body I should have been trained for this sort of thing a long time ago playing cops and robbers cowboys and Indians bang bang

you're dead and he was really was July 25th 1969 remembrance two this is how I was when I saw you last. I was stagnant, going no place, and searching desperately for something I had lost long ago in the barracks. And so we escaped to the gray New England coast and the Boston fog

and a warm downy bed to greet the night. And I began to live again and laugh. I love you still forgiving me that month and forgiving yourself without promise. August 11th, 1969 news item it was president nixon's first visit to vietnam as president he insisted on going to sagon rather than cameron bay

the huge supply base cameron bay doesn't count he said that isn't vietnam time magazine august 8th 1969 dear sir in light of a vietong sapper attack on cameron hospital i question the source of those people who believe Cameron Bay isn't Vietnam. I think the 98 men who were casualties and the parents of those who were killed would agree that Cam Ran Bay isn't exactly Disneyland. You bastard. September 1st, 1969. Rodriguez. Jim Rodriguez was killed last week. After only 12 days in country, I remember as an

upperclassman how we locked his heels together and taught him the OCS version of military discipline. It was double time, four times around the field, boony runs, attitude checks, harassment, and constant pressure. Physically and mentally, Rodriguez never broke. A matter of fact, he met our challenge won better and went on to airborne training, training briefly serving later as an airborne instructor. I wonder how much we really influenced Rodriguez.

We showed him how to play soldier. But no one ever taught him how to play war. It's hard to play games with dead men. Yeah, like I said, this, this, this style of writing, this just straightforward style of writing, it's, it's different. It's different. There's something, there's something very guttural about it. There's something very visceral about it. And it seems, I mean, it seems like he's writing this with, when he wrote this, he had no

Intention whatsoever of ever sharing it with anyone. That's kind of what it seems especially you know he's talking about the the woman that he loved back home and You can see his attitude it it It goes kind of all over the place sometimes and so there's there's there's a certain level of just reality in this that I don't know it's really It hits in a different way than many of the books Many of the books September 10th 1969 combat in Engineers bronze backs bent to bridges culverts picks and timber trestles sweat and grime and death by hidden minds and snipers

Construction repair and when will you fix my air conditioner ask headquarters Again, you know I know I've talked about the engineers that that worked with us in Ramadi and what that how how incredibly hard and dangerous that job was those guys were heroes like you couldn't even believe what these guys were doing and this is just the same exact sentiment there you know they call I just said engineers he's his combat engineers that's exactly right it's combat engineers 100% September 11th 1969 artillery cannon crashes eastward magnificent terrible thunder bright flash night bordered a surging mass explodes in thunder pageants

of fire again again in savage awe we celebrate the festival of death September 20th 1969 a heavy load on the way back from Queen non yesterday we stopped our Jeep to help an old man with a heavy load which had fallen by the side of the road the old man was carrying home the remains of his youngest son who had died during recent fighting along the Cambodian border The Saigon government, he said, had provided a free coffin and transportation back to his village, but the truck had lost an axle five kilometers down the road. This wasn't his first tragedy.

He told us that his eldest son had died two years older, earlier, in the assault on way. But he never saw that son's body since he was a Viet Cong. He was an old man, he said, heartbroken and ignorant. He had lost two sons drafted to fight on different sides of the war and even now He didn't really know what they had died for Yeah, we hear that about the Civil War in America that you'd have brothers fighting against brothers and I mean clearly this happened in Vietnam, but You don't think of a guy that's given up one son to each side and they're both dead September 24th, 1969 a night

The heavens lie beyond us void yet filled with sons light and form infinity from nothing all exists as billions age our world not yet a grain of sand in mighty awe the universe endures mortal weak and woman born look beyond the sky some clear and cloven night by lands and meet the sea Embrace the stars in infinite conceit Deny from nothing all you feel and celebrate the overmind original primval force the birth of all that is October 2nd, 1969 the convoy two hours before the dawn our convoy groups quietly efficiently trailers tanks and armored trucks with plated steel alert rows of limitless inhuman war machines assembled in Detroit from America's great arsenal of doubt giant tinker toys of war the mission always comes before the welfare of the man the all-pervading mission that no one ever knows the men comes second

rows of tired army ants and dusty olive drab no longer young grim and grimy grimy keep their faith in faded photographs of home A virgin hope of things to come. Or some in beads, an albatross of peace medallions hanging from their tarnished neck. A human cry and muted rage to say, at war, I am, I am, the soon forgotten symbols of a never-caring world. It's time to move. A hundred muffled coughs and snarls of steel and iron trucks. The schedule must be met.

can't be late for war the dawn is rising as we rumble past our first awaking village here people move to fold and field a farmer even now to toil behind his beast and plow the sacred soil his father once endured his desecrated tomb of craters mines and shells across the ridge and down the dusty roads but it will pass it always has the land Endors all things Very true statement Very true statement Especially you can imagine

So what did I say? Is this 1969? Yeah, no, 1969 And he's looking at these farmers And this war is going on all around them And guess what they're doing They're doing what they've been doing for thousands of years They're plowing those fields

And this war is going to come and it's going to go And they're still going to be there doing what they do the soil is going to endure the land is going to endure October 9th 1969 the sporting life I met a Huey gunship pilot and Queen on who had just extended his tour of duty down in the may-ong delta most pilots did the job they had to do and then went home but not this one he actually enjoyed his work he bragged to a group of us one night that during a dull day where there was little action in the delta he kept in practice by shooting at numerous water buffalo in rice paddies and sniping at frightened farmers in one case he said he

played cat and mouse with an old papasson on a bicycle weaving frantically down the road I scared the hell out of him for a while he said then I got him good with a beautiful long burst no chance hell he was in a free fire zone probably VC anyways all the slopes down there are VC we looked at him incredulously and then left his table leaving him alone gloating to himself even at war he remained a leper within some strange unwritten code October 10th 1969 howell beach at night I wish you were here right now so I could hold you very close and tell you things there are no words for October 14th 1969 home one

We cling to something close at home a girl or shadow on the wall free sun a ragged hope so precious in return If lost we too are lost not finding hate as soldiers seldom hate but bitter stale in passion dead We lose our need to love home too I love you as gentle dawn spread out against the savage sky a part of life so very far away yeah it's um again important to point out as I always try to that these men that went to war were not just soldiers and not just marines and not just sailors not just airmen but they were they were men with hopes and dreams they were men in love with that girl back home and they couldn't stop

thinking about her were 23rd 19th May. I was talking to May today, a pretty Vietnamese girl who works in headquarters detachment as a secretary. May speaks English very well, and often we joke and talk about a lot of trivial things, but today the conversation was more serious. What would happen? I asked her if the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese take over the South one day. May's face remained impassive. I work for the Americans, so they would shoot me. Then they would kill my family.

And that is the reality. And that's the reality that, you know, when ISIS came into Ramadi after we had left, about seven years after we had left, and after Ramadi had been peaceful for about seven years, and ISIS came in and took it over, so one of the first things that they did was anyone that they knew had worked with coalition forces at all, they got murdered and their families got murdered. and from what I the information that I received from my contacts over there was about 500 families were murdered all of them so yeah when if you're going to go into a country and you're going to work there and you're going to support some of the people make sure you stay there until the job is done November 2nd 1969 slopes and dinks he was a young buck sergeant from Alabama proud of his artillery days at fort sill Oklahoma and proud to defend america

from worldwide communist aggression. The Vietnamese communists in his eyes were sub-humans. Anyway, slopes and dinks who felt no human emotion and therefore who could be eradicated as swiftly as possible without regret. He saw this enemy, he told me, for the first time during the Tet Offensive of 1969, when, for days and nights on end, his battery kept mowing down human wave enemy assaults by lowering the howitzers to tree trunk level and firing bumblebee canisters which sprayed thousands of anti-personnel darts into the enemy troops.

But still they kept on coming. One wave after another. On the night after the last attack, he went out with a small patrol to survey the damage and found hundreds and thousands of the enemy dead. But he also found frightened young boys and young men who had died clutching one another. in terror or who had died trying to bandage each other's wounds and the young sergeant told me that he knew then that they must also have mothers sisters and wives at home just like his men and that they had been terrified during the battle just like his men and that they bled and felt pain and cried just like his

men and he never called them slopes or dinks ever again November 21st 1969 Sydney Australia after six months at war a 10-day miracle a beautiful heavenly city on the bay the frontier spirit with a rise sense of Aussie humor drinking a schooner of swan lager with new friends invited everywhere a genuine Australian openness up front and honest the bay and and the opera house Bondi Beach riding the waves the restaurants and nightlife incredibly beautiful tall Australian girls disarming and very real not afraid to be themselves to disagree outgoing and direct deep and beautiful like their city Sydney Australia the reality of heaven treating us as people again and true friends making us feel

more at home than home itself our last night was spent in a seafood restaurant Mrs. Murphy the restaurant older told us if you'd come earlier boys We'd have had some fine dates for you tonight Unfortunately no wine was sold after 9 p.m. with dinner An older couple approached our table here boys take our bottle your father's really helped us during the last war And we know how you feel about this one God bless you and take care boys Take care Sydney Australia a beautiful lasting friendship a beautiful lasting friendship a

A love affair with life that back in Vietnam had all too soon the unfamiliar face that precious things take on when our heart is left behind. Yeah, I can't even know. I've been to Australia and it's awesome and I can't even imagine what it would be like going from the Vietnam War into Australia for 10 days to leave. And to have the Australian people just be awesome. So to the Aussies out there. Thanks for the support December 19th 1969 incoming

A dull thud muffled close Growing fearful Thud Followed twice Another crash Christ body feet Flailing hands and sweat

Waiting waiting Wading crash God oh Jesus Crash Receding thud Waiting still waiting Not you thank God

Move your head Not you Move your own arm not this time so there you go that's incoming that's that's that's that's waiting for that's when you hear when you hear it get launched and you know it's coming that's what it is when he's saying not you that's checking dang is that move your head no not you move your arm not this time we're good yeah yeah January 22nd 1970 dispatch at 19145 hours 10 kilometers northwest of hoy non a 6th year old youth from a nearby hamlet entered fan quit hamlet and threw two

fragmentation grenades into a group of children and Marines of the USMC combined civic action platoon two three seven there were four friendly killed in action Vietnamese children and 15 wounded in action 11 Vietnamese children and for United States Marine Corps the youth who threw the grenades escaped that's just I I mean, just that snapshot of what you're dealing with, there you are in a civic action platoon out there trying to help out, and a 16-year-old kid comes in hucks two grenades and wounds 11 of the little kids

you're trying to help and four of your men. And that's what your life is. February 4th, 1970. Small and pleading eyes are combat medic with all his tubes and bottles, never heal that gaping wound nor still your fearful cry Jesus God what a petty callous war when armies clash and hate to disembowl a child February 15th 1970 a green beret in Na Trang one can never generalize about individual divisions regiments or any particular unit it's hard enough generalizing about particular people but in Naatran I did meet a Green Beret who as one individual was at least honest about his motivation.

I was sharing his battle of Jack Daniels and ice. I joined the Green Berets for excitement, I guess. On one hand, we're living with the yards, raising crops, growing pigs, and hunting Charlie. On the other hand, you kill and drink, smoke, and whore. Every minute may be your last. You know what I mean? Man, if I were back in the States doing this sort of thing, I'd either be dead or sitting on death row by now. But over here, we've got a free license, you know what I mean? He said he was thinking of settling down after the war, getting into a business trainee program when he got back to the States or maybe into some branch of law enforcement. Yeah, war is suited to some people, for sure. March 1st, 1970, interlude.

I saw a movie tonight that made me think of you It's bad thinking you know Yesterday I thought of Lee who has killed last month in one core The movie was one of the few we saw together last year How different seeing it again alone sitting in the sand at war It made me think of our own interlude Why we could never accept less than we had and would never have again.

If you want to think about that sentence too much, it's a little bit heavy, why we could never accept less than we had and would never have again. March 4th, Remembrance 3. When you smiled at me, I knew you were different. You had no snide remark for my uniform

or unuttered a look of mock pity which seemed to say, look, everybody, it's one of them again. and you didn't approach me with a fashionable overriding concern or preached to me from a pre-assembled dreadnought of morality no and you didn't stare away from me or at me or through me all you said was hello but through that one simple word I was no longer alone observation flower petal pushing through the crusted earth embraces light and dies the ugly root endures but never booms March 14th 1970 the provost marshal jeep stealing in Vietnam was a national pastime the Vietnamese nationals had acquired chain cutters and became very adept at Western auto mechanics with special emphasis in jump-starting the engines and removing all serial or identification markings with lightning speed

even the shorebound Navy installations took great delight in their midnight requisitions of army material and the green berets from not trang had on one occasion brought in a CH 47 sling helicopter and airlifted away a brand new vehicle that was apparently impossible to obtain through ordinary supply channels the new provost marshal at Cameron Bay decided to do something about these thefts and implemented a stern directive from the military police to all personnel who had their vehicle stolen they would now have to write an extensive report and triplicate to the provost marshal explaining the surrounding circumstances and further appear before a

board of inquiry remaining liable to possible article 15 or cart marshal proceedings for negligently allowing these thefts to occur these orders were to have taken to take effect by the provost marshals directive on March 11th that would really take care of the problem the provost marshal promised the general by the sternest measures and prompt prosecution of any negligent offenders on the morning of March 13th the provost marshal was seen walking to work someone had stolen his jeep yeah like that good little story there's that stuff definitely happens my Cs we're quite good at that so in task unit bruiser we had

Cs the the the construction battalion their navy Guys that do construction, but they also have combat skills. So their motto is we build, we fight. And they should have another motto that's like we get things if you need them. So my guys were awesome at that. And they were also awesome at everything else they did. But it was nice that when I needed something, they would find a way to acquire it. Mm-hmm.

Thanks there to you, Bruser, CB's. All right. March 15th, 1970, graffiti. and he's just got a list of graffiti here Lifer 986 days in a wake-up Next Before I came into army This is all misspelled before I came in the army

I couldn't spell engineer Now our one Here's a good one The US Army 184 years of tradition Unhampered by progress The army's like a rubber It gives you that

false sense of security while you're getting screwed it's not a real war yet we're just 550,000 military advisors fighting for peace is like screwing for chastity share in the fright with freedom go home with a friend next give me your hearts and minds and I'll burn your fucking hut next war is hell but a year without a woman is a real bitch Next, how come we can get to the moon, but I can't get home. Next, those personnel with short stacks and low manifold pressure, please taxi closer to the urinal. Next, Yasserian lives. That's a little shout out to catch 22.

The book. Next, would the last American soldier leaving Vietnam, please turn out the light at the end of the tunnel? I think that's in reference to the fact that the higher-ups kept saying that they could see the light at the end of the tunnel. You know, we're coming. We're getting there. You're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel Mm-hmm. March 19th, 1970, love L-U-V. We once had a little puppy called Love. She was the company mascot and dug just about everyone. She was one of those beautiful little creatures who hadn't ever learned to hate or fear. She trusted everyone. Love trusted the sergeant, too, even though the sergeant wanted her wasted as a damn nuisance. So love never came home with us.

but neither did the sergeant better halves truck convoys and mechanized patrols often wed many men to their vehicles during most of their Vietnam tour the names of such better halves included here so this is just the names of a bunch of different vehicles battle in Bob psychedelic flower old faithful roadrunner acid rock hell for certain puzzle palace pusher man grim reaper iron butterfly grassbender artful dodger moratorium and malfunction junction and uh my first deployment to iraq are are you you might appreciate this yeah i think i've said this before but our vehicles my first deployment were named after after

the movie kingpin so big urn big urn was one of them for sure yeah that was all and then laif i think it was primarily laif's idea He wanted to name and did name They named all the vehicles after G.I. Joe characters Like Cobra Commander and stuff like that. Cobra Commander. So there you go. Get some.

You know, it's one of those things like, Is that just always going to happen? That's what I was thinking. In 300 years, if you have a war and there's some kind of vehicle, do you just name them? Whatever kind of cool names you can give them? I think it's because it's a little point of control that you have even as a front line guy.

Yeah, like that you can do and it's cool. Yeah, it's like kind of... Gives your war a little character. Yeah, like it's a little fun thing. You can add like, you know, how the patches situation or, you know, just all that stuff. Or seal house BTF, you know, kind of thing. It's like to kind of deviate from the war

almost in your own like little group. It allows us for a little creativity. A little creativity, yes, yes. It's funny because, well, naming vehicles was good and I remember so we used to number to number the vehicles

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, or 1, 3, 4, 6, or whatever, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or whatever, 1, 2, 3, 4,000, there's a problem with it though because the vehicles aren't always where they're supposed to be when you get... Chronologically, right? So you'd go, oh, wait a second.

So you'd go out and get in the number 3 vehicle, which was number 3, but you weren't supposed to be in that vehicle. Number 3 vehicle is number 6 in position right now because they got scrambled up while they were maneuvering. Yeah. So that's why we ended up...

I told the guys, name the vehicles, no numbers. That's what they did? Named them and they named them after Kingpin. Yeah, yeah. I think there might be a picture of, there's definitely some pictures of, of my first deployment in the dichotomy of, in the dichotomy of leadership book,

but I want to see if you can see any of the vehicle names written on the side. Zev was one of the ones that I saw. Big Zev. Yeah, not in the book, but one of the pictures. That's, that's, yeah, that's from, that's from Ramadi. That was Big Zev.

I think that was actually our, Big giant war pick I was like there was a I think it was the Marine Corps had a big six-by truck That was they had war pig that was a war pig I was like that one I mean that's kind of a given that you're gonna have it There's no names on that vehicle check Next March 20th 1970 the two fronts The kid was caught out in the open by a stray mortar round They don't make coffee the way they used to the businessman said and those kids with long hair? Jesus The impact cut off his arm the lower half of his right leg and blew off half his head

oozing red black blood into the sand he was 19 years old and from Ohio Well the president must know what he's doing he has my full support where the hell is the waitress The kid only had two weeks left in Vietnam three days before he'd already framed a copy of his orders home April 2nd 1970 a bond of It was hot the ambush had been effective out there in the brush there was little protection from sight or hail of gunfire The soldier caught sight of his buddy seriously wounded sir please let me get him please The officer well aware of their deep friendship hesitated and then said go, but it's not worth it Your friend is probably dead and you may get killed trying but the soldier went

miraculously he hoisted his friend onto his shoulders and under heavy fire the two of them stumbled back into the trench the officer looked tenderly at the would-be rescuer I told you it wouldn't be worth it your buddy is dead and you are badly wounded I know sir the soldier replied but you're wrong it was worth it because just before he died he looked at me and said I knew you'd come it didn't matter that day that one man was white and the other black thank you god that out of a hellish war we can still learn the meaning of true brotherhood chaplain Donald J. Robinson from the hundred and first airborne division that's where he took that story from when you were kind

of jumping back and forth to like oh coffee isn't made what he used to is that was he like comparing he had what I should have described a little bit better he had one set of the the stuff that was taking place in the civilian world back in the states he had in parentheses Yeah, so while this kid is getting ripped apart by a mortar round back in American parentheses It just says, you know, oh hey, where's the waitress? Yeah, and and you can imagine how You know, that's what you know, I think even during World War II During World War II the guys were over fighting, but at home like everyone was focused on the war effort. Yeah, and they were rationing and they were rationing and They were building, I mean, they changed factories to start building planes instead of like civilian cars.

They built warplains. They built bombs. They built ammunition. They built guns. Like the whole country was focused on it. In Vietnam, that wasn't really happening. You know, it wasn't really that same situation. If you got drafted, your whole world freaking went upside down.

But if you didn't get drafted, you were going to live your normal life and go work your job and live normal and go to the restaurant and ask where the hell of waitress is. Yeah. That's similar to what it's like now. I mean, actually, that is what it's like now. And I've talked about that a bunch of times. Talked about it with Sam Harris. You know, like we, the war, the wars that we have right now, there's a vast majority of the population of America.

It doesn't affect them at all. It literally doesn't affect them at all. Because it has had no impact on the food that you eat, the gas that you use, zero impact. Even the way you travel, like, okay, you could say, well, you know, we used to be able to, and I don't know how much you traveled before 9-11. I traveled a lot before 9-11. And, you know, you know,

It was a lot easier to travel. It was a lot of quicker and there was flights always seem to be happening. It was just an easier deal. Yeah, but now TSA is dialed in enough when you get used to the program and you whatever. It's not that big of a deal. It's not like your freaking life is not a big deal. Yeah. So really the wars that we're going through right now for people that are detached from them So I mean obviously you got military you got the families of the military sure But once you step outside You know you step one or two degrees away from that you could be living your life and if you didn't see it on the news You would never ever know that there was a war going on Yeah and that's and what from I think the reason that he wrote that was because that's talking about now from the perspective of like when you're in the war

You're thinking about those people that they're not even this not even affecting them Occasionally they watch the news and go, oh, there was someone else killed. Okay, can I get, can you pass the mayonnaise? Yeah. And even how, like, if you're not engaged in it, it's like, you know, just how you say when you, only when you're watching the news, that's when you see it. And even now, like when you watch the news, you're like, oh, wow, you know, that's, that's too bad that that's happening.

Literally the moment the news goes off. And I'm not talking about the worst stuff. I'm talking about everything on the news, really. Because, you know, I don't know, car accident or something good or whatever. Well, the news cycle's getting so ridiculous right now. The news cycle's completely ridiculous. right now and it's no big surprise that why people listen to this podcast why people are listening to all podcasts why people are watching YouTube videos that are two and three and four hours long

why is that because they want to have a little bit more depth to what they're hearing I was on the airplane I got done you know they make you put away your computer and so I turned on the news because it had streaming cable news and I turn it on and I mean I'm going you When do they turn on when do they make you put away your computer 20 minutes? I had 20 minutes left And in that 20 minutes there was like three or two sections of commercials actually there might have been three sections of commercials that are all like four minutes long I was getting so mad I'm thinking myself I'm thinking myself bro I just want to know what's happening and you got to show me another commercial about some mattress company or what I mean just just just just just just trying to sell me stuff and then it goes back to the coverage

Right it goes back to the coverage and the coverage is people yelling at each other there's No conversation's happening. It's, it's, it's, it's, and I've done, you know, I've done plenty of news, bits, bites, whatever it's called. And you, compared to a podcast, it's a joke. Yeah, it's like, it's literally nothing. That's why, that's why, you know, Elon Musk going on to Joe Rogan and talking for three hours. You know, that's a whole different story. That's a whole different thing.

And, you know, I kind of think that's the beginning. That's the, that's sort of, it's the beginning. of the end and the end of some stuff and the starting of some other stuff but that when you when you just can turn on the news and it's and it's over that quickly yeah and it doesn't bring you anything other than literally the headline yeah it's just the headline which a lot of times is misleading which is yeah which is is is is it is is is it often yeah right it's clickbaited yeah right it's clickbait is your cell phone killing you they're not saying the cell your cell phone is killing you but is it kind of thing but i don't know but now i

I got to know and I got a click on that thing. Exactly right. Yeah. So nowadays, that's even, you could say that's probably even worse because there's so many. And plus, not to mention back then, if you were going to watch, you know, my dad was telling me this the other day that back in the day, they, they had, you know, everyone watched. Like he just mentioned, he mentioned Walter Cronkite in this. And like my dad was like, yeah, everyone watched Walter Cronkite. So everyone had a base common theme of discussion.

So when you went to work on Thursday, everyone had watched the news on Wednesday. And everyone saw the same news. And nowadays, so if you wanted to watch TV, you were gonna watch that. I mean, I remember Walter Cronkite. You know, that was my dad, that's what was on night. You watched Walter Cronkite.

That was just how. And now you can go home and never watch them. the news so you can be completely you know not only you know it's one thing to say hey the news is over about the war in 30 seconds and I don't think about it anymore you can just never even watch it you can just watch Instagram videos of car crashes or or what other dumb stuff do you watch on on Instagram drunk girl feels drunk girl fails yeah let's watch 30 well I've got you know an extra half an hour I'll watch a half an hour worth of drunk girls fails and they're and they're funny and they're entertaining

And they What part of the mind do they stimulate? Because they must stimulate some part of your brain Yeah. Because they, when you watch car crashes, you know, and now I was going to throw street fights in there.

But when I watch street fights, I'm actually picking them apart, right? I'm actually trying to learn something. Yeah. And, but you know, drunk girls, drunk girl fails, those you don't learn a lot from. I've shown my daughter's drunk girl fails

like when they were 13, 14 years old and be like, Oh, this is what alcohol will get you. Yeah. And, and the other thing, for a while they were showing binge drinking in England. Oh, yeah. And, you know, it was actually in the news a little bit. And it would just be, you know, men and women, but I'd show my daughters the women of just

girls just completely passed out, drunk skirt hanging open. I mean, just puke all over themselves. And I'm like, hey, this is drinking. This is alcohol. This is what your little. friends are getting all excited about and think it's so cool this is it this is what it gets you could you so yeah good good tool so you can totally avoid you can basically customize your information flow into your brain to whatever you want yeah and I'll

go one step further and tell you that the algorithms that YouTube is putting ahead of you in front of you so when you get done watching one YouTube video of a drunk girl fail what pops up nine more drunk girl fails that are ready for you to watch so they've got an algorithm that's actually gonna just lead you to stupidity yeah right they should put instead of putting advertisements they should be like okay for every four really dumb YouTube video you watch you should have to watch at least one quarter of that compiled time into something that's gonna teach you something about being a better human being yeah well you know I don't know how good of a business model that would

be but you know it's it's a good idea kind of in theory I guess you got to get beyond just thinking about money echo Charles yeah no I dig it man I'm not saying they shouldn't I'm just saying that's why they won't but yeah yeah yeah it's like right now because right now in this so in the they're trying to put these limits on time or I think the social media people are saying hey we're gonna help you monitor your time that you spend on social media so there'll be like a little thing that pops some see you've spent 40 minutes on social media today yeah because you're

You're right. You know what they're not going to say? You reached your limit. You're done. Yeah. They're not going to say that. No, no. They're not going to say, hey, you watched nine stupid videos.

Now you're going to watch three educational ones that make you smarter. They're going to show you the time of your consumption right next to the next video that they made formulated on what you like to watch. You know, they're like, oh, you know. That's a thing that's completely irresistible to you. Yeah. That's what thing that you got to watch. A drunk girl failing. You can see her and she's like standing.

on the edge of whatever, and you know it's going to be a good one. Yeah, yeah, traced in like red with exclamation park, you know, or a point, you know how they do that, where it's like, oh, it's so exciting. So, I see what you're doing, can't fool me. But yeah, so you can be completely,

the point there is you can be completely disconnected, especially now, completely disconnected with the reality of the world. All right, April 4th, 1970, Colonel S. Many officers and NCOs in Vietnam know their business. Even though they hate the war a war not of their own making they really take care of their men and don't give a damn about front line formalities all they want is to get as many of their men back alive as they can The men deeply respect these officers and NCOs and justifiably so so there you go

A little bit a little bit of leadership here Taking care of your men other back to the book other officers are little people with rank and authority and little else cannot command respect by their actions, so they must command by their disrespect verbally. And for petty offenses, for haircuts, polished boots, and front-line salutes.

Colonel S was one of these men, a little puffy hamster man who would not hesitate to lick the general's boots on any occasion. And he had the audacity on numerous occasions to lambast various troops for their sloppy haircuts and uniforms

at the base PX. Such troops had just come in from the field or from a long exhausting convoy and had not seen the likes of a shower, much less a barber, in a number of weeks. They always looked at the colonel in total disbelief, and then comprehending in a long, imprisoned, raged for this antiseptic staff toadie. Colonel S's written directives were likewise incomprehensible, unnecessary, wasteful, and, in a word, unbelievably stupid. Many of us thought that Joseph Heller's catch-22 was an unreal parody about war until we met Colonel S.

One night some Viet Cong sappers blew up our petroleum storage dump, and it was an incredible blaze for three days and nights. Anyway, after the immediate attack, Colonel S jumped out of his Jeep, grabbed his 45-cali-pistol, and went chasing after the VC hell-bent for musty leather, stumbling over the sand dunes like a long, retired prop man in a John Wayne war movie attempting a futile and embarrassing comeback. We all sort of hope that the Viet Cong would follow the logical rules of guerrilla warfare and leave one sniper back to cover their escape, waiting for the much-beloved staff colonel to come panting over the hill. But no such luck. Apparently the VC knew all about the colonel and wanted to leave him right where he was and who could blame them.

So there you go. There's those type of people. They exist now. They're going to exist in the future. If you're one of those people that started listening to the podcast and joined the military, and I don't know there's a lot of you. Get some. That's awesome.

Don't think that every officer you meet is going to be one of these guys that takes care of their men and doesn't give a damn about frontline formalities and is deeply respect. That's not a majority Now this other knucklehead, the guy that's licking the boots of the general That's not a majority either But they exist They're there April 9th 1970 waiting

Waiting is 90% of the game in Vietnam You keep busy you do your job 24 hours a day seven days a week Occasionally there's a half day off a stand down or 10 days of R&R outside of Vietnam but the rest of the time you wait seven days a week 24 hours a day until things happen you wait and then when it happens you're right in the middle of it when you're not working or sleeping you're still waiting and time can play some horrible tricks on you Vietnam may be a one-year tour for most soldiers but they have actually spent many more years there than they care to talk about time in Vietnam slows down almost to a stop

every minute of every day the Vietnamese have lived with this phenomenon for century but the Western soldier cannot your last two weeks in Vietnam like your first two weeks are measured in months and you're especially paranoid about getting hit during these last two weeks and you wait your off-duty time is short-lived and very precious with a 24-hour day and a seven-day a week is the only time you have to blow off your stress and anxiety your loneliness fear and frustration sometimes you can almost but only almost forget the war During this time we grew together with our friends we shared each other's hurt and pain our love and hate for home and war

We got to know each other in a very deep sense maybe better than our wives or girlfriends ever would We talked philosophy and we talked nonsense we laughed and we cried we cried we learned to live and grow we looked back and we looked ahead we talked about changes gain us and in America we committed ourselves to both without these friends Vietnam would have been much worse than it already was our friends made this waiting bearable April 11th 1970 medicine men Many doctors assigned to the medical corps in Vietnam devote much of their very limited and precious off-time duty working with Vietnamese civilians. Most medical assistance from the other side is gratefully appreciated, but there are exceptions.

My brother Charles, who was assigned to the Sixth Convalescent Center in Southern Two Corps, worked with the many Vietnamese civilians in Camron Village and Myca Village, among others. But three weeks after he ended his tour of duty in Vietnam, a small group of Viet Cong sappers blew up his hospital, killing and wounded 98 bed-ridden patients. Another army doctor working in a small village not far from Cameron Bay successfully saved the life of a young girl, 12 years old, who had both of her hands blown off by a grenade. The little girl's grandmother was also injured in the blast. A short while later, the doctor learned that the young woman was a young girl's grandmother. girl's injuries occurred while she and her grandmother had been attempting to

booby trap the doctor's own Jeep with this same grenade hoping to kill him when he started his engine a third unarmed American medic spent much of his free time in a similar village attempting to fight an outbreak of cholera and typhoid one young Vietnamese boy was too sick to be saved when the medic arrived in the village but rumors circulated throughout the hamlet that the American medic was responsible for killing the boy with his poisonous medicine. Consequently, the village allowed two Viet Cong snipers to ambush and kill the young medic when he drove back into the village a few days later with another shipment of life-saving drugs.

Few medical personnel dared to enter this village after the episode, and half the villagers later died as a result of cholera epidemic. Yeah. This is You know, I was reading Last night I was actually reading An interview with David Hackworth

That I've read it before But I was reading it again And one of the things he said Was that The goal, because we dropped He's going through the numbers And I'll do this We'll do this interview on the podcast

I'll bring it in And but he was saying He was talking about how much bombs We dropped on Vietnam So Vietnam's about the size of California And we dropped more bombs in Vietnam then got dropped

in all of Europe during World War II on both sides so both the allies and the Axis all bombs put together during all of World War II in all that area

there was more dropped into just Vietnam and what what someone said was he's quoting a general that said hey we're going to bomb them back into the Stone Age and What he didn't realize is that they were already worn in the Stone Age.

These people are living, they're farmers. They're working. They're basically in the Stone Age. And so that's, that's my point is that they're not going to understand this medical treatment. And if someone comes in and starts manipulating their brains and saying, oh, that, that you're, that kid was killed by this poisonous medicine. April 15th, 1970, a short, short story. Once upon a time, there was a politician who all by himself blustered and, stormed and committed half a million young men to risk their lives in war. Some fat-assed power-hungry politician who in all his potato face ugliness had the gall to consider himself a statesman and a man of decision. The American sheep went bah, bah, and the young boys died, and bulb-nose lived happily ever after. Kirkmeier, Lee, Cothran, Daly, Rodriguez just names just figures April 19th 1970 officers and men American soldiers in

Vietnam came from all walks of life and so did the officers most of the officers I worked with in Vietnam in Saigon Cam Ran Nautrang were citizen soldiers like I was graduates of ROTC or OCS Only Colonel S, Major T, and Captain D were West Point graduates. Colonel S is discussed elsewhere in this book. Captain D didn't like going along with anyone, and Major T was a good officer, well-liked, and much respected. One out of three ain't bad. For six months, my superior officer was Major P from the 173rd Airborne, and I couldn't have worked for a better man in route of the Army.

me he treated us all like human beings no matter what our rank was and we were all fiercely loyal in return hey there's a novel idea that's a novel idea all these people that asked me like oh I'm taking over a leadership position what should I do here's step one treat your people like human beings no matter what the rank are and look he says that people were fiercely loyal in return when major P left however we became expendable to the greater glories of someone else The army like any civilian counterpart has its equal share of the good the bad and the ugly One of my closest friends in Vietnam was none of the above he was a stevedore officer a

Pentecostal minister's son and Zorba the Greek He treated his men as individuals rankless and unique They did their job with a minimum of hassle and they loved him He was their counselor their friend and they're equal. When he was about to leave Vietnam, his men gave him a symbolic christening in beer and threw him in the ocean. He told them to treat each other just like you'd want the other dude to treat you. The golden rule in a tub full of beer.

An inner light forever branching outward. In Vietnam, when most of us were plotting through the absurd inhuman procedures of the war he alone remained a man of substance so again it's like treat your people well April 27th 1970 a highway accident yesterday we saw the results of what happens when a small lambrata scooter bus filled with 12 Vietnamese civilians hits a Viet Cong mine buried along the side of the main highway the mine was primarily an anti-personnel device used as the military abstractly explains it, the harass the civilian population.

There were a lot of mangled bodies lying there until they were policed up, primarily older people, women, and children. The elder sons and husbands had already been conscripted to take their chances on the conventional battlefield. In America, a big highway accident or related disaster usually draws a huge morbid crowd to stare and gawk. Yesterday in Vietnam, no one seemed to notice. April 30th, 1970, the Koreans. The Koreans fielded in excess of two crack divisions during the Vietnam War. The Rock, that's Republic of Korea, the Rock troops were greatly feared and respected by the

Viet Cong and North Vietnamese alike. They asked for and gave little quarter to the communists. Once, when one of their troops was ambushed outside a small village in northern two corps, the Koreans hunted the sniper down, brought him back to the village, strung him up on a tree, and skinned him alive. The Koreans' bravery, devotion, and ferocity as a fighting force was legendary in Vietnam. During the TED Offensive of 1968, every major Allied headquarters and military compound in all of Vietnam Was attacked by the communists except one the VC and the North Vietnamese gave wide birth to the Koreans

I did not know that but that's that's legit They said, uh, yeah, we're not gonna attack the Korean compound We're gonna leave it alone So there is That speaks volumes That speaks volumes that speaks volumes that's why yeah you gotta carry a big stick got to carry a big stick props to the Koreans here's a little poem in memory of a friend killed an action is it

weakness for a strong man to be moved by inner touch must he spurn a lonely blade of grass and damn the oceans roar or must he look at sentimental beauty as a crutch and choose to play the game of pride by calling life a whore no I have seen the strongest man defend a withered rose and fall from grace because the people didn't understand they thought it was his weakness they exploited I suppose and killing him in ignorance they trembled in his hand May 25th 1970 Kent State in the futility and rage over President Nixon's Cambodian invasion, the killing of four student demonstrators at Kent State University by the Ohio National Guard mystified many GIs in Vietnam.

We felt this outrage too, but we had a hard time comprehending how the press and the nation could make so much of an issue out of these four student deaths when we were losing friends and comrades and an average of 250 men killed each and every week it made us feel as unwilling participants that we were a subhuman species neglected and alone forgotten pawns in a confused and god-forsaken war and we were on both sides of the ocean yeah i mean obviously growing up you you actually study like when I went to history class in high school like we specifically learned about the Kent State Massacre which obviously is horrible but can you imagine so for the students get killed these student protesters obviously never should have happened but can you imagine being a

Vietnam and the whole country of America is up in arms about these four students being killed but every week there's 250 your friends getting killed. May 26th, 1970, the real heroes. The medics and medevac personnel in Vietnam, almost to a man, were beautiful and very dedicated people, braving the fiercest fire and most horroying odds to comfort and evacuate the wounded and dying, military and civilian alike, often from both sides from the heat of battle. In any war, the real heroes are those who try to maintain. basic humanity time and time again risking their own lives so that others might live in Vietnam the medics and medevac people were such men May 28th 1970 anti-war protesters there were various reactions by Vietnam GIs to the anti-war protesters back home the bulk of

the infantry were high school graduates who knew that college deferments kept most of the more affluent anti-war protesters out of the draft and thus out of the war to these GIs Vietnam was viewed in terms of a deep gut deep gut reaction a sort of misery loves company affair I wish those goddamn protesters could be over here for one week and see what the VC did to my buddy It changed their goddamn minds real quick that was he had that in quotes that wasn't him that he was him that was him explaining what the thoughts of the average infantry

GI was back to the book some of our contemporaries had chosen jail or Canada and Sweden we had chosen Vietnam at least the anti-war protesters could show the world that we were all not supporting the president's actions even at war

on the other hand we had to survive this war since the VC and the North Vietnamese had designed for killing us and we had designs on them, we were both de facto enemies. Nevertheless, most Vietnam GIs and the anti-war protesters back home had something in common. I love this. This right here is awesome.

The frontline troops hated the war, and they hated the safer combat support personnel. The combat support personnel hated the war, and they hated the organizational general staff. The staff personnel hated the war, and they hated the troops back in Europe and the troops back home. The troops back home hated the war, and they hated the placid, non-carrying American civilians. The American civilians supported the war at the time, and they hated the anti-war protesters. And the anti-war protesters hated the war, and they hated the government. Therefore the protesters and the soldiers that like a like had one important thing in common We both hated the war that's a that's a crazy thing to think about that whole thing is just like it's

It's it's you could you could play those kind of circular games with our political system all day long right now Ridiculous this overall feeling perhaps can only be described by a related story as the American troop withdrawals in Vietnam began and armored outfit the 2-1 calf pulled into Cam Ran Bay for its long-awaited departure home Over four years the 2-1 Cav had performed a combat and combat support role in and around Fan rang and fan chet They had eaten dust and mud been shot at mortared and booby trapped throughout their tour and now they were going home To honor these brave and gallant men general D of the Camron support command decided to give them a fitting welcome home and amid banners bands and flags general D himself was on the reviewing stand and just as the

overly tired men of the two-one cab rumbled by in their tanks and armored personnel carriers the general proudly saluted them the first man in the lead tank not knowing it was a general saluting him or just not carrying returned the general snappy salute in the only way possible he gave him the finger June 6 970 coming home coming home we had to go through American customs sort of like weary tourists back from a year long overseas jump to the enchanted east did we have anything to declare not much most of our prized PX positions possessions were shipped home some having been ripped off by certain civilians stevedores but

along the coast so now he is he's home June 7th 1970 Fort Lewis Washington A big monster idiot tube welcomed us back to the world. A third-rate TV comedy in the sweaty lounge with grotesque absurd commercials screaming and clawing at their dazed viewers with a never-ending by-me fervor. I'm sorry, I said as I turned the monster off. I'm just not ready for all this yet. I know what you mean, another voice said, spending a whole year overseas, fighting to defend.

all this crap so there you go the TV the TV the monster clawing at its viewers by me but May 5th 1971 a March in San Francisco there was a huge anti-war protest march in San Francisco this week over 700,000 people walked down Geary Street and in memory of some friends we found ourselves in front of a long large contingent of old-timers from the Lincoln Brigade and directly behind a large group of businessmen against the war There were students and veterans housewives with baby prams Burley stevedores and electricians Grandmothers and grandchildren

Policemen and hippies minorities and majorities all Americans peacefully asserting their constitutional right of free speech and assembly after the speeches in Golden Gate Park One badly crippled veteran in a week Heald chair had just enough strength to hurl some hardware one combat medals into the field a bronze star medal and two purple hearts Nobody cared about us when they sent us over there. He said and nobody cares about us now and That kind of closes out the the the portion of the book That I want to cover although I do want to actually finish it with what he finishes or how he finishes the book and he and he finishes the book Peter and Swisher finishes the book with a with a

quote from someone else and that's how he finishes the book so I want to read that and it says to close out the book it's called another time another place this morning January 21st another of war was the worst I have ever seen it is just east of where the engineers have established a ferry crossing across the river at a point where the river first bends toward the road until there were they were buried there lay what was left of eight or ten British soldiers perhaps one of their mortars was hit as some were burned and there had been a heavy explosion but no shell crater was seen nearby. Of two men, only the lower halves remained.

Another two were each lacking a head, and another had a leg off at the hip. All had been horribly injured. A Christmas card lay on the ground, bearing the words in a child's handwriting to the best daddy in the world. And those words, were written by somebody by the name of Captain George Nash Royal Artillery, Italy, 1944.

And if you put this together, Peter N. Swisher, the N. in his name stands for Nash, because Captain George Nash was Peter Swisher's biological father, who I talked about in the beginning. who was killed after the war as he came home from Italy. Another place, another time. You know, life in many ways, in so many different ways, we are not going to understand it. It's incomprehensible. I mean, when you get this Christmas card laying on the ground amongst these savagely wounded soldiers

and this Christmas card says, in little kids writing to the best daddy in the world. Why that is, I don't know why the world can be such a horrific place and how life can be so tragic, but that is the way it is in some of the things that happen in the world. They just happen and we cannot control them. But at the same time, there are so many things in the world that we do control.

And all of us, all of us, all of us we all can somehow in some way relieve or we can attenuate some of that tragedy we don't need to spurn a lonely blade of grass or damn the oceans roar

we don't need to do that we can make someone's life a little bit better we can make ourselves a little bit better and in doing so we can make the world even just a small part of the world a little bit better And Peter Swisher he actually did survive Vietnam and he went on to become a lawyer and then he became a professor of law at the University of Richmond and

He was married for 37 years and raised a daughter and And he died June 15th 2016 of a cancer Cancer called multiple myeloma Which if you don't know what that is that's one of the forms of cancer that's connected to to Agent Orange which is the chemical that we use and we use and that is in Vietnam to kill the foliage so the enemy couldn't hide in it the cancer that killed Peter Nash swisher but but luckily his voice and his memories live on with us through

his writing and through his stories and I think through these stories so echo compress a little bit and maybe tell us how we can help us make the world a better place make the world a better place that sounds like a big deal it sounds like a big deal but yeah is it really that big of the deal well I'm not talking about you personally got to individually go out and change the whole world right in a way that everyone can see right now I had a conversation with who was I talking to someone was asking me it might have been Pete it might have been Pete up at origin might have been Peter Roberts it might have been him but somebody was asking me you know about

You know coming up in the seal teams and when I decided to become an officer and I might have said this before on here. I don't know, but you know, I had a platoon commander that was a prior list of guy and he was awesome and we all loved him and When you're in a seal platoon, that's the whole world. Yes, that's the whole world is a seal platoon. That's the whole world And we had this awesome officer and this is the time we had a mutiny and all that and so we got rid of our bad officer and we got this good officer came in and it just made our our lives off Our lives were awesome. And so I said to myself the back of my mind It's subconsciously kind of remotely conscious. I don't know But I realized that this guy made our lives awesome. He made our world awesome

And I said to myself somewhere in the back little Barely formed human brain of mine I said to myself you know what? Someday this guy has made the our lives for us 16 guys in this hill tune our lives our lives our lives are awesome now and someday I'm gonna try and make life good for 16 guys in a seal put two that was my goal and for that world so so when I say hey make the world a better place what can you who can you make the world a better place for because you actually can't yeah whether it's some kid down the street whether it's somebody that needs help out there whether it's your own kid how

can you make the world a better place because you can't What can you do to make it a little bit better? You know what it starts with making yourself a little bit better? Get yourself stable. I'll tell you that. It's like the oxygen mask that dropped down in the aircraft. You got to get yourself squared away first Once you got yourself squared away I had somebody asked me the other day like I'm bored What should I do? I was like oh if you're bored that means you got room you got capacity Yeah, you can go help people

Mm-hmm and you know how they say like helping or Others is like the ultimate like reward you know people they say that I think even before you square yourself away eat it's harder to make that connection I think yes because you're still struggling yourself yeah it's kind of like us when you plant the seed it's like the seed got to grow into a thing above ground first and yeah sort of sort of kind of way but the more squared away like you get not only the more capable you are of helping others more effectively But the more you can make that connection, like, oh, this reward is, like, way better

than when I achieved my thing, you know? That's why a lot of people, like, if they really love what they do, I'm not saying everybody, but a lot of people, they love what they do, but they're kind of like out of the game, they'll teach others how to do it. It's just like a natural progression.

That is a natural possession. That's true. Look at Jiu-Jitsu. You become a world champion in Jiu-Jitsu. That's great. But then eventually a lot of those guys become instructors and they have teens and that's what they want to do is spread the word. Oh yeah and like you you'd see these guys who had like big big time careers and stuff on a high

level and they're teaching you see how happy they are teaching others like like Babaloo. I don't seem like a random example but he popped in my my head because I've been to his class when he's teaching the kids, he's fired up. Everything man I'm like this guy's like really engaged with this you know I I'll tell you right now my last and I knew I was like my last Few years in the Navy where I was running the training and I was really teaching all the time Like that was so good for me I mean It was so gratifying

Yeah, that's it because I get to see the light I get to see people learn I get to see people I got to make the world good for someone Yeah, you know these these three guys that figured something out. It's like yeah man, you're you're a leader And that's that's good stuff so So yeah when I talk about that sounds so Trite You make the world a better place yeah so how could I say that better hey man fix something helps just

fix something around you make your world a better place that's what I should say make your world or make someone else's world just make it a little bit better yeah you have that capability believe it or not and regardless of that who that someone is that someone that someone is you too by the way actually you first or it could just be you you yeah because if you make your it's like if you have a neighborhood right and the neighborhood you know how they you cut your lawn and you clean up your thing and you yeah that's squaring away it's helping everyone let's say there's 10 houses in a neighborhood small neighborhood whatever 10 houses you cut your lawn you do your hedges you paint your house make sure there's no

trash in the yard or whatever you've improved that whole neighborhood by one 10th you alone let alone everybody else don't even think about anybody else one 10th it's a lot you're saying so apply that concept there you go that's what you do boom there you go And I like it. So staying on the path, that is. Help us, help us. That's what I said, actually. Help us.

Can you tell us how to, can you help us? Help us. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? Yes, I do. Yeah, yeah. So, yes, be happy to. So first thing, obviously, we're going to talk about jujitsu.

Not obviously, but we're going to talk about jujitsu. Yeah, I think it is actually obvious at this point. Yes, it is. You know many people tweet me a day or message me that they took their first jujitsu class? How many? A lot. And you know how for you people means like three? Sometimes, yeah.

Sometimes. We're like, well, people have been asking for whatever. Sure. But sometimes that really means three people. No, I'm talking on a daily people, daily basis. Sure. I would say, I don't know, I don't know, maybe three to five people a day. A day, daily, that's a lot.

Yeah. That is a lot. Yeah. Maybe it's over exaggerated in my head, though. You know what? I don't think so because every single time I go on Twitter, which is pretty much every day, pretty much, there's at least one person in, you know, the alerts, right, section, right?

That I'm, like, copied in or whatever, and it'll say got my first jujitsu class or got beat up in the jujitsu class. And this is every single time. Like, I literally cannot remember. See, so it's a lot. People are getting on the jih Trey train. Yeah.

For sure. Yes. So it's kind of obvious that we're going to talk about Jiu-Tit-a little bit. You know what else is good? Very few people say I tried Jiu-Jitsu. I just don't like it. Yeah, it's not for me. That's very, I've actually, I can only think of off the top of my head one individual out of all those people that like went back and forth with me and it was just like, look, I do not like this.

I think this is the guy that I said, look, you need to train until you submit someone. Yeah, yeah. Then you can stop. If you can submit someone and you're like, okay, I don't like this. Yeah. Which is pretty hard to understand. Then it's truly not for you. It's truly not for you.

But if you actually tap someone out, then, yeah, yeah, then it's not for you. But I bet you even that person once they got that arm lock, they were like, you know what? Stick with this a little bit. Maybe this is for me. Yeah, I would, that, my money would be on that scenario. So you felt a little bit of claustrophobia, right?

In the past, I know you're over it, but could, could, could that alone stop someone from wanting to train jiu jit-to? Because I had one guy in a seal platoon with me that, He would get so because I train with everyone and when I would train with him he would get so freaked out like he would start like like getting actually mad at me You know you know that yeah and of course what did I do Pull the jaco yeah I would just side control just smash close as I could Yeah squeeze just smash try and you know what though trying to help us trying to make his world a better place right by getting him over that thing. Exposure therapy.

Exposure therapy. Situation. Yes, though. The answer is yes. I think that because claustrophobia is like for real claustrophobia, not just like, oh, I'm uncomfortable, whatever. But like if you have a for real claustrophobia, and it's a spectrum, I get it. Some people have it worse than others.

But yeah, if they have it bad enough. So maybe somebody on the hardcore claustrophobia spectrum. And then they got introduced to it early on. And someone that was like a smasher, right? Yeah. Because you wouldn't feel claustrophic. I guess you, you wouldn't feel, if you were going with. someone that's got like an open butterfly slash lasso guard yeah like well yes you're

not feeling very claustrophobic you might so it's caught that triangle then all sudden you freaking out but that but then you tap and you're out the place where you really feel claustrophobic is cross side or mount or yeah so and it's not even necessarily a smasher per se because jiu jitza you can be mounted just normal mount not smashing pressure whatever just normal mount because it's not like it's because claustrophobia is psychological it's not like a physical thing primary. I mean, there's physical elements for sure, it has to be, but

if you just feel like you can't get out or you can't breathe or, you know, it's like, that's the feeling. But so like, a lot of times even when I was working through mine and you'd be like smashing me all hard and be like, right, you're wasting your energy. The smashing doesn't do it. When we're rolling and it's

quiet, especially when you're like, oh, when I know you're doing it on purpose, it helps. It helps me because it seems like a game. Like you're just messing with me now. So it's like, but if it's serious, if we're just rolling, we're not saying anything. And it's like, now I'm faced with either staying in this position right now forever, because I can't get out. I can't get out of your side control right now.

Like history has proven to me kind of thing in my brain. So either I suck it up indefinitely or I tap out. Both of those to me are death. Like to tap out because you're tired or claustrophobia, like that's worse than tapping out from a submission. So that's why a lot of the times you would claustrophobia me into giving me, Giving you my arm or something like that and then I'd have to tap it. That's how it went, man. So which is I think you I think you tap two times from just straight Costerphobic yeah, because you didn't freaking take the submission I was giving you and that's terrible and I remember like I was about to be let down at myself as you were saying all this I was kind of disappointed myself that I didn't identify that

That there was a further torture I could have been doing to you but it looks like sometimes I did figure it out. Yeah, so you know You did. So I remember here, I'll remember one time not to go too deep into this because I want to tell you a lot about origin. So there's this one time where I forget if I rolled with you like that day or the David's here. It was really recently I rolled with you. And I was feeling claustophobia. And, you know, I gave you my arm. And then you took it.

And I was like, yes. Like I was happy that you tap me out and let me out of there. Because it's like, it's really bad when you feel that. So the next day I see you rolling with Dean. And Dean gets you in double snow angel, right? And you guys were rolling hard for a long time. And I'm like, dang, these guys are going hard. I would be, and I'm kind of empathizing,

you know, when you put yourself in the other person's situation. So I'm like, hey, thinking to myself, man, these guys are going hard for a long time. I would be gassing right now. And then Dean was like, he was kind of getting the better. You got Mount. I'd be like, I'm feeling for jocca right now, because I've been in that scenario where it's like we're going hard,

and then I wind up in Mount. I'd be like, man, I'm feeling like, like, breaths in my just by watching and then he gets you in double snow angel i'm like i i was getting like micro anxiety from the double snow angel that dean is doing on you because that's claustrophobia right there oh yeah that's a good one you can't do it you can't move what was my reaction he just powered through it yeah like you didn't even i don't think he even tapped you but he was he was like he was like that for like a long time and i was like this guy's a different another level savage and i'm not saying necessarily with the grappling i mean that was sort of like a

You know, that was a side thing. Just the fact that you can endure what I just witnessed you endure compared to my own shit. I was like, man. Nonetheless. The answer is yes. So then what happened the next day? What do you mean? Was there a follow-on where I rolled with you again, or is that the story?

No, no, no. So what I was comparing it to what was helping me really get into your shoes is because I was remember, it could have been that same day that we rolled and I just gave into the claustophobia. Like, it was like, I had an issue. I was, like, in terrible shape. I would go train, like, twice a. week maybe, you know, and not, it was just a bad scenario. But nonetheless, yes, the answer is yes. If someone gets into Jiu-Jitsu and they have a claustrophobic

pre-existing condition. Yeah, thing. And then they get in the claustrophobia situation early on, like the first or second day or something. Yeah, I could see how they wouldn't want to go back. But I don't know. But here's a good thing about that. If you do Jiu-Jitsu and reap the payoffs of Jiu-Jitsu and then you,

you then you get into claustrophobia situation you're more worried about like how can I overcome the claustrophobia more so than hey jiu jiu jih Tzu produces too much claustrophobia you know because you know the benefits and you feel like the yeah the payoff of the jiu jih Tzu way more than you care about or fear claustrophobia that's my that's my analysis anyway so speaking of jiu jitsu yeah you're gonna need a ghee so you get it origin gie that's it straight up there it is answered your question because plenty people plenty people still ask me what Ghee to get. Yeah. Or did you know why it's because people start at podcast one. Yeah. Yeah. And I dig it. And so

they're they, well, they get them by podcast, you know, I was asking people at, at the camp, I was asking people what broke you? Like, because, because people get, meaning they're listening to the podcast and they're like, well, they're talking about you and they're, oh, well, they're talking about it. But then they'll be like, yeah, you, when you were talking on podcast 23, you were like, there's nothing else like. And I was like, okay, I got to try this. So there's certain Podcast that people go all right screw it I'm just gonna do this yeah, huh and I think you posted something on social media the other day That said that you're if you're a white belt you already have achieved more than 99% of people in the world Yeah, because how many people actually less than one percent of the people in the world do Jiu jitzu for sure

Yeah for sure yeah, fully and Yeah, I reposted I retweeted it from Joey Sylvester He and I think he even retweeted it from me somebody because so true like and the reason I reposted it is of course for new new people you know coming in but that's a good reminder it was a good reminder for me for every because I think it's a good reminder for everybody because you know that feeling like you know when people are like man I get for everybody in everything not just jiu jitza yeah because there's other stuff that you should be

doing that you might not be doing yeah because you're like oh well I don't want to cross the line or I don't want to take the first step yeah you know I don't want to take the first step taking the first step is always big yeah I wrote about that. But even like taking, so yeah, again, there's two elements to that. Taking the first step, meaning if you're not in Jujits, then you take that first step to go to Jiujitsu, right? There's that.

And then to me, it was like when you get your ass kicked, you know, like even you, even you say, like sometimes I'll just get my ass kicked someday. For sure. And people, no matter what level they are, they'll be like, oh, man, you know, they'll say, oh, man, I got my ass kick, but I'm ready, you know, and I'm coming back and I liked it and all this stuff. And then they'll ask when, when do. When do I not feel so awkward?

And when do I not feel like, I don't know what I'm doing? I'm like, well, you always feel like that. You just feel like that a little bit less every year or whatever. And so, and sometimes you can be at a high level and feel like that more often than not still, you know, because it just did depend on training partners, all that stuff. So I thought that that was a really good reminder is like being there. It's like super important. Yeah.

And it's like really beneficial. It is. And also is the, to take the first step. If you're out there, let this be. the podcast number one forty three that you said you know what man I've heard enough talk about this I'm gonna go get some yeah today's the day today's the day there's plenty of jiu jitzy schools out there yeah and most of them are good you know which one makes or not which one but when this is what makes me like want to just go train right now is anytime you go into one of your

spills about how it's a superpower it's absolutely true that's yeah I was telling call like when we're we're waiting earlier today my cousin call he um how when you start jujitsu like you could do jiu jitsu for one year and right then at that point you can you can beat up everyone else who doesn't play and doesn't do jiu jiu jitz like in a just in a general way in a general you know like that you're roughly speaking yeah roughly speaking there are there are exceptions for sure but you know like there's not many things in the world that are like that are like that are like that are like that are like that's yeah no it's it's it's a superpower yeah so every time i listen to you say that kind of thing and do your little explanation oh that's like yeah man That's true because it kind of puts it into yeah when people bring their kids in here I tell them I was telling this family this the other day I said I said I truly believe that Jiu Jitsu is the best thing you can give your kid including love That's it they'll figure that part out I go about the Jiu Jitsu so yeah, I think it's very important All right so you can get your geese from origin main.com

Made in Maine that's why it's origin maine main And they're made there and they're made specifically for jiu jitzu. The weave is for jiu jitsu. The fabric is for jiu jutsu. The cut is for jiu jitsu. Made by people that do jiu jiu jitsu by black belts in jiu jitsu designed by people that trained. Yeah. People that are black belts de deco.

Yep. Peter Roberts. Yep. In there with scissors. Cutting geese Yeah, sure, scissors Well, now it's lasers Yeah, I haven't really seen any scissors

But, you know, I've seen those little What do you call them the little saw things Yeah, you know, but when you make the original patterns You gotta use scissors, bra I don't know that kinds of stuff Well, hey, I know now though, I know no and that's good So yeah, scissors saw all that stuff All made in America

If you're training no ghee You can get the rash guards Rash cards 100% And they're also made here In America Which is a big deal And if you're doing other exercise outside of Jiu-Jitsu, we've got joggers if you're jogging or if you're just cruising, whatever, and hoodies and, you know, shirts and whatnot.

Apparel. Apparel. Orjidmain.com. All made in America, by the way. Also supplements. Jocko supplements. Yeah. Joint warfare. Now, people have been asking me joint warfare or krill oil.

Good question, by the way. It's a good question. I think Brian, I ask. Asked him the same question because I have a hard time answering it the reason I have a hard time answering is because I do both all the time and I'm not stopping any one of them as an experiment I'm not doing that It's not worth it to be there's no logical reason. There's no logical reason but what he said and I kind of agree with this It makes sense if you are doing preventative Krill oil

Mm-hmm if you're doing heal Joint Warfare yeah good way to put I you know my recommendation kind of is like do both yeah take them both But that sounds like a good idea. So if your joints just started bothering you, or you got the elbows bothering you, or your shoulders bothering you, I think shoulders for me is the one that I always notice. Yeah, then if it's hurt, get on some joint warfare.

Yeah, yeah, that's good. And I say both because it's the way I would see it and put it. And this is just kind of the way I see it, where it's like an 80-20. You know, it's not like, oh, joint warfare 100% for healing up in recovery and then then I actually don't think that at all But yeah, I just and the other thing how well I don't know yeah that's what my I said I'm putting it out there I'm not I would yeah I I I obviously recommend both

But you know sometimes speak that costs a lot of money and some of some people like you know what I can only afford one cool I dig take take krill oil because that's all encompassing health right? Yeah, whereas joints like yeah when your joints start getting jacked up a little bit yeah which by the way if you're doing jiu jih Tzu you're gonna feel it you're gonna feel Jiu Jitsu is not a sport that you don't feel yeah you you will feel you feel it yeah you feel it yeah's true but they're both good 100% and then you got um mulk mulk so i'm i'm i'm envisioning a world one day because i was in a traveling yesterday horrible and man i got like a chocolate milk like a regular chocolate milk, which is just awful crap.

And it doesn't even taste as good. It doesn't taste as good. You got used to the milk. That's what it was. But still, objectively, it does not taste as good. And it's unhealthy. Yeah. So one day, one day in this world, you'll be able to go to the little shop in the airport, the 7-Eleven,

and you'll just be able to walk in. They'll have a little mink situation going on. They will. Because how can they not do that? I mean, eventually, right? No, I mean, eventually you fast forward. I don't know if it's going to take two years or four years, but eventually so many people are going to demand it.

Yep. There's going to be, oh, yeah. There's going to be milk restaurants. There's just going to be different flavors. You're just going to go under. Like little milk bars. Little milk bars. But they won't even have food.

They'll just have milk. Just have milk. Yeah, you know how they have tequila bars, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Same thing. But milk. But different.

Mulk on tap. Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. You know I have that dream too, you know and until then yeah you can get it at originate.com Also discipline too if you want to get your mind right You know that expression get your mind right yeah yeah not to say your mind's not right. I'm saying no The most fired up I've ever heard a guy tell me about getting his mind right I was up at Yosemite And this guy I was coming out from a hike from a pretty good hike couple days out in the And there was a guy and he was he was in the middle of the river like

Sitting on the rock just a calm river not like you know he's sitting on the rock and We stopped there I think we jumped in and you know he saw me and he was all Immediately you know I could tell he was in the game yeah yeah and he comes over and he was like I said hey man you know he said oh man I listen to all the way he was with a one of his boys we were listening to all the way up here We just throw six hours to get up here to we just listen to whatever it was Oh 48 and 49 back to back and I was like oh man that's awesome I said what do you You're going up here you climbing you guys gonna go hiking he goes no man I just came up here to get my mind right and I was like Yeah, I don't even know what that means did it get it yeah well I guess I do know what it means

Yeah I kind of yeah go up there get your mind right yeah dig it and if you want supplementation for doing that discipline boom Premission mind your mind literally will get your right right yeah pre-mission get your that's a positive Yeah that's the origin main dot com yeah that's where you get it Also You want to support yourself You want to represent Jocko as a store It's called Jocko store

So you go to jocco store.com So you can represent Huge time Huge time represent A lot of people representing And this is one of those things So basically this is where you can You get shirts and hoodies

And hats Rash guards Yeah trucker hats by the way You don't have to get the flex If you don't want to If you don't want to If you don't have to If you prefer

Keeping it old school Like we used to do a Buh Sure I'm trying I think I've worn trucker hats before on a regular basis. I never saw you into a hat until like three minutes ago when you put one on momentarily and I looked up and I just got disturbed. Yeah, well, it's been literally like 15 years before it since I've...

And your head doesn't get a beat down by the sun? Well, I'm very brown. Yeah. And I'm from Kauai. So I think I'm used to that one. Yeah. But actually, no, to answer your question, yeah. Sometimes if I hang in the sun for a long time.

Then you want a hat. You don't put one on? Maybe. Straw hat. Sometimes. Coconut coconut leaf hat. Oh yeah,

that's what we used to do. Nonetheless, when you're representing Jocko shirts, when I see people representing in the wild, who made that up in the wild? Was that you said that?

I think someone else said that. I don't know, but I definitely, I think I might have said it because I think the first, no, I did say it because I remember I hadn't seen one in the wild. Right. And that's something,

yeah, I'd be like I never saw a trooper in the wild. And then eventually I did. And now, man, I was in the airport yesterday. I saw like seven people. They weren't wearing shirts, but they were all coming up and being like,

hey, what's up? So people were fired up. In the wild. Yeah. But yeah, good. Go there, get something. You know, if you want to represent and represent in the wild.

Boom. Discipline equals freedom. Where is that? Anyway, yeah, jocco store. You made a new Discipline equals freedom shirt. Yes. It's a little bit cooler, in my opinion. Well, you know, it's one of these deals.

And that might be biased because I sort of. You had some influence. I influenced that one. Yeah. Yeah, it was good. You're a good desire. You, when you, when I told you, hey, make equals smaller. Yeah.

And I could see in your mind, you were thinking is off balance, off balance. Physically. Physically, letters. And then I gave you the idea of, hey, no, you put two lines. It's an equal sign. There's layers. You got all, it was like a done deal. In your mind, Nirvana had been achieved with a new T-shirt, a new death.

It did click because and I saw why you wanted the equals smaller. Yeah, because that's not the main thing. Yeah, discipline is it. That's the main thing. Discipline. Nonetheless, anyway, jocco store.com, if you want to represent. Freedom's the main thing too. Represent, yeah, not the equals.

Well, equals is, it's all equal. How about that? Yeah, but it's not the main thing. Yeah. All right, there you go. So, Jocco solved that problem. Not that it was a problem, but he'd be influenced with his improvement. Yeah.

Somebody out there's like, no, I like the equals being bigger. Echo's shirt was better. Equality, boom. Yeah. They're in equality. They like the discipline. They like the freedom. They like the freedom as a discipline.

And vice versa. That equality was kind of the deal. That's the deal. And I dig it. They're going to have to keep in their old school shirt. Yeah. Dig it. Represent.

Get another way. Yeah. Whatever, man. All good. All good. Also, good way to stay on the path. The current path is to subscribe to this podcast if you have not already. that includes YouTube so that's the video version so yeah if you're on the podcast platforms

apps whatever wherever you listen to your podcast man subscribe leave review if you feel like and also don't forget about the warrior kid podcast which we just released 17 and 18 and 18 all at the same time and I apologize that those took a little while to get out and my when I came down from my garage gym this morning got done with the some. Bro, I squatted today and I haven't been able to squat. Heavy? Not, not like,

no, not heavy, actually. Straight up. Not heavy because I have, I had back to back tweak, knee, well, tweak back and then tweak knee. So I just haven't been able to get, and today I just went, man, I couldn't believe squatting is hard.

Yes. Like if you're not used to it, which I'm not right now. Yeah. And I, and believe me, during the Even when my back was tweaked and my knee was tweaked, I'm still doing pistols. I'm still doing box jumps. I'm still doing burpees and lunges and even little kettlebell-like type little, you know, movements. So it's not like my legs are just sitting there atrophying on a couch. No, they're still in the game over here. But, man, then I just racked up. You asked me if what heavy? No, I did $2.25. I did like a few sets of $2.25 and I was like, and I was doing some stuff in between. But still, I couldn't believe. Yeah. Yeah. So my point is if you can squat squat yeah if you can squat get squat get it on because that just makes you stronger Yeah tougher you do have that it might even make you smarter as far as I'm concerned Probably no I read actually I think about it I read something about the The neurotropic release that happens when you squat your whole body gets better Well that's exercise in general resistance exercise in general actually a lot of kind of exercise in general

Yeah but when you're squatting you're using like a lot of it does more it's True. It ups your testosterone too. There you go. And here's why, basically, because it's a huge muscle group. That's why. Oh, yeah. And it's not just one muscle group because when you're squatting, you're actually using, I think when you're squatting, you're using so many muscles.

Much, yeah. All kinds of core stabilizers and stuff like that. And that's not to mention the biggest muscles in your body. And with basically all your big muscles, all of them, not just one big one and then a bunch of small ones. Like, you know, most of your body, that's kind of how it is. You know, you're using your shoulders and then your triceps and you're, Little bit of your chest gonna think. I went to this hotel the other day and they had to hundos, dumbbells.

Yeah, that's pretty stoked. Yeah. I was like, okay. All right. Respect. Yeah. Get some. Everyone should have, if you have a hotel, if you're a hotel owner, get some hondo's in there.

Get some hundos. You don't even have to get, you can get, because normally they stop at 50s, if you get, let's just say 50s, if you just get a set of 70s and a set of hindo's, we'll be good. We'll be good worldwide. Yeah. The whole world will be. happy yeah you'll be especially happy because I know you like them dumbbells you were singing you were all fired up the other day talking about dumbbells yeah I do like dumbbell well because it's a fun exercise there's more to it than just getting under the

bench for example and pushing the bench you know it's I mean there's more a little bit more to bench than that when you get into it but dumbbells like you got to okay you got to pick those guys up one in each hand then you got to balance them on your knees and then you got to get them up there into position it's like a whole thing exactly right and that's not to mention the strength you got to have to push them So, you know, when you get kind of good at them and you do them a lot, it does become kind of fun. Jack. There you go.

Boom. Nonetheless, I don't know how we started talking about dumb bills. Well, Jocko was squatting. His legs are sore. All this stuff. Oh, yeah, and then Warrior Kid Podcast. How did that lead to it? I don't know.

But, you know, that's how you are. Oh, because when I came home. Oh, yeah. Because, oh, this is what I was going to say. My wife was listening to the Warrior Kid podcast this morning when I came down from the gym. And she was all smiles. And she's like, This story's very good, darling.

Does I tell the little Uncle Jake story? Sure. You know? And she starts naming the people. She's like, oh, is this, this person? Because the stories that Uncle Jake tells, there's, they're not, they're not, uh, what's, they're not nonfiction stories, right? Like, but there's the basis.

The story comes from somewhere. Inspired by a true story. Yeah, that's what is it? Based on a true story. Well, there's based and then there's inspired by true events. That's like a different novel. Well, which one is the less true? Inspired by true events.

Yeah, so I say they're inspired by. Yeah. Inspired by true events. But they're not based on. Although the one that just came out, me being out in a rowboat in the middle of a lake and the oars fall through the oarlocks, that happened. And guess what?

I had no life jacket. Is that smart? No. So kids got to learn about that. Got to learn about that. Be prepared. Yeah, be prepared. Don't take those shortcuts.

I agree. Anyways, that's a Warrior Kid podcast. Good. You can listen to those. And you talked about YouTube. Yeah. If you're on the YouTube channel, Echo has put, puts out, he puts out videos and they're enhanced, we'll say. Yeah, they're enhanced.

Also, just a regular video version of the podcast and little excerpts that are not enhanced. They're just chopped up for consumption. I think we should have more of those, too, by the way. Yeah, I put one up today. We'll put more. We'll do that every day, I think. Dang. That'd be good, right?

Appropriate. We'll say appropriate. Yeah, you might have to edit them more. The one I think, the one, it was the one you put up today like 10 minutes or minutes long I forget too long it was how to stay in shape when you travel yeah so it should be like this how to stay in shape when you travel do burpees in your hotel room get some yeah I think people need more information on now also hey warrior kids speaking of warrior kids get the uh go to irish oaks ranch dot com we got young aiden the warrior

kid and he's making soap he's got his own business yeah he's got his own business I think he just turned 13 and what a couple months ago and he's got his own business he's got income he's got expenses he's got production he's got a production line

and that how legit is that very legit and it's not like hey I dig it man when you sell lemonade we used to sell bananas when I was little we go in the back oh yeah

pick some bananas yeah yeah and we go on the side of the road we stop every car it's a small road it's not the freeware nothing we stop every car say we got bananas one dollar for one banana which I know it's kind of expensive But $1 for one banana or $5 for a banana, a bag of bananas for, I think there's like, I don't know, eight or ten bananas in there.

So, you know, the whole deal thing. Make some money. I dig it. But let's face it, you can get bananas literally on the side of the road in Hawaii. So they're like, all right, we'll buy them. Yeah, they're just being cool. Yeah, they're being cool. But my little daughter, she'd be out in front of my house selling a piece of rock selling whatever.

She'd just selling all kinds of people buy it. She's cute. Yeah. She's cute. And they go, oh, yeah, here you go. Good mark. He says, would you like to buy a rock? Where to come from over there in the dirt?

Oh, okay, yeah, we'll give you $3 for it, the young lady. Thank you. Exactly. So that's what you pulled with the bananas. Yeah, more or less. I mean, maybe a little bit more value than a rock. But it's still, yes, same deal. But you go over here, Irish Oaks Ranch, this soap is like legit soap.

Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. Like I say, it's not like a novelty soap for looks. It's like for real soap that you used. It's legit soap. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And it's a kid making it. Yeah, that's the impressive part. And he's making it from goat milk.

So it's not like he's making, he's pouring like some, he's milking a goat. Right. He's milking his goats to get the milk to make the soap. This is the whole thing. Yeah, it's not like he's going on the internet to the makeas soap.com. And then they send you the ingredients and then you pour them into a thing and you got soap. No.

He's milking a goat. By the way, he's raising the goat. The goat doesn't just, like, there's not a live. It's not a mechanical goat. It's a living goat that has to be kept alive. Made in America too. Yeah, absolutely made in America. So yeah, it goes deep, man.

Our so is ranch.com. Get some, stay clean. You also got psychological warfare. If you need a little get some, you can throw that. Well, you get it for your alarm clock. If you need it for your alarm clock, if you have a little trouble getting up out of the bed in the morning, use it for your alarm clock. But give your significant other, most likely your wife. Give her a heads up that there's going to be a random dude in the bedroom and the

morning talking to you so doesn't surprise her and scare her and make her hate you that's psychological warfare iTunes Google playing we're coming out with a second one we're gonna try I'm gonna try and get that done by Christmas can we get it done by Christmas you think I think so yeah okay cool we're doing shopping compulsive shopping somebody wants smoking but how many people we can do it yes and yeah smoking I'll try smoke I'll think about smoking I don't I've never smoked so it's a little hard for me to relate to right But I may do just straight up addiction.

Addiction, yeah. What are you addicted to? Because everybody is addicted to something. Yeah. You know, some people are addicted to cocaine. Some people are addicted to alcohol. Some people are addicted to sugar. Some people are addicted to drama.

That's what I was going to say, actually. Drama, yeah. Yeah, people are addicted to drama. Yeah. So maybe we'll do one about that. But yeah, that's psychological warfare. And you can get on iTunes and Google Play and all that stuff. What is psychological warfare?

No. I know everybody knows. All right. If you hit a moment of weakness, boom, listen to psychological warfare and get you past it. That's what it is. Boom. Also, speaking of weakness and your workouts, workout weakness, real weakness, physical weakness, whatever. Anyway, you get a plateau in your workout, get some new equipment.

That's what I did. I got rings. Get it from Onet.onit.com slash jocco. I got rings and kettlebells. Actually, that was a long time ago got the kettlebells, but I'm glad I did. Again, the rings, battle ropes, like stuff you can vary it up and create little challenges for yourself within the workout. I know that's what kind of what a workout is, but you know when it gets mundane. No. You just BTF through it. Actually, I think you do know when it gets mundane

because for you, it is mundane. I think that's part of your challenge. I think that's your challenge. Yeah, yeah, you exercise that. I mix up my workouts a lot more than you think I do. Yeah. Sometimes I do squats and then sometimes I do front squats. Well, there you go. You heard it here first, folks. Anyway, like I said, on it.com slash jocco. And then you get some tea. A lot of people have been asking where to get the cans, the ready to drink. RTD, that's a thing, that you start learning when you, like, get into this kind of thing. What?

Like the industry. Yeah. The industry. Yeah. It's R.T.D. Ready to drink. So if you want jocco white tea in a can, this is another thing. One day in the world, it's going to be like, hey, I'm driving out a long drive.

I'm going to stop at this 7-Eleven here. I'm going to go in there and they're going to have a job. Instead of having to get. a horrible chemical filled crappy sugar psycho drink I'm gonna get something that is literally good for me jockle white tea and then that's what's gonna happen but until then it's on Amazon it's on Amazon Prime why is that because freaking it weighs a lot so to save money for you on the shipping you can get the Amazon Prime and it just comes to your house and it's awesome and the obvious Benefit and everyone you know knows already is that once you drink jocco white tea you can deadlift a minimum of eight thousand pounds

Including Jordan Peterson who Overcame his plateau of seven thousand pounds That's good himself right up there to eight thousand pounds Got some books too yeah books with a worry kid came marks mission mark's mission? Mark's mission? Yes, I The worry kid and then way the worry kid Mark's mission I told you I read this to my daughter every night, right? Yes, now well every Here's thing when I said I every night, it's like pretty much every night.

So you're saying. We do other quizzes and stuff. So this is something. But now she's in kindergarten now. And now there's a thing where they require, they don't require, but they recommend, yeah, per night. So I just do one chapter night, boom, boom, boom. And she got so into, she's into this second one a lot, a lot more.

Because, I mean, not that she wasn't, because the first one is kind of the ethos now, because I read it more than once to her. So maybe that has a lot to do. Yeah, you might go back. Yeah, she's into the new one because it's new. Yeah at some point you're gonna go back to the original one and she's gonna start Maybe even like me when I read like I was reading about face the other night for the 47,000th time

And you're like you just get more stuff out of it. Yeah, and I think those books those warrior kid books That's what's gonna happen like when she turns six she's gonna read it again when she turned seven She's gonna go like oh yeah I'm gonna get discipline equals freedom. I just know what that means right now Right yeah when she's eight she's gonna figure that out yeah Nathan James. Yeah. This makes it extra funny because I know who Nathan James is. You know what I'm saying?

Like I know the thing. So it makes it extra funny where she really like anytime he comes up because you know how like kind of each chapter goes back and forth. One is like him at camp and what happened. Then the other one is like him starting business and when back to camp and doing this. So it's like that. Right. So every time we go back to Nathan James, she perks up like what's up again?

So we're at the part where, you know how he's doing recon, right? It's finding out. Oh, yeah. Finding out about Nathan James. Yeah. And she's finding out that part. And then like she's really, because we tell her that. We used to tell her that all the time.

Not everybody has a TV in their room. Not everybody has like all this XYZ good stuff or whatever. So she really like it was like she was familiar with the concept. So she really just attached to it. Yeah. But yeah, for some reason, I don't know, because I make my voice like how you make your voice all. When I make Nathan James voice. I think that's part of it too.

Do I do Nathan James in the audio? No, but no, no, no. No. No, when you, you know how you make your voice when you imitate somebody. Some dork or whatever, you know. But Nathan James isn't a dork? No, I know, but I make my voice like Nathan James. Because I try to make him sound annoying because he's annoying.

Oh, got it. Okay. But yeah, anyway, it's a very dope way. We're the real Nathan James on the podcast. I know, brother. Can't wait. Fired up. He was down here, but I was like, hey, are we going to do this?

He was just busy. And he goes, let's wait until I get this thing taken care of. And then we'll do it. And I said, cool. So we're going to do it. Yeah. The real Nathan James. Also, discipline equals freedom, field manual.

Best kind of manual there is, by the way. A field manual. That's my opinion. This is how to, you know how you have a basic structure slash backbone and just how to be? You know what? You know what word you're looking for? What? Operating system. Operating system.

There you go. Yep. There's your operating system. Perfect word, actually. That's your, so it's like, boom, you read it. Cool. I got a general thing, but you can kind of have it to refer to every once in a while. It's pretty cool to get feedback on that book and have people that get completely on the path from that book and then more important they stay on the path from that book. Is it possible that a book has that much of an impact? The answer is yes. Yeah, and it seems weird to say that. I mean, it does. It seems weird for me to say that, but that is 100% true. It's 100% true. Yeah, and I'll tell you what, I mean, do you read it?

Yeah, I mean, I know you. Yes. So, I mean, so I was going to say, it may not make sense for you, but it will make a perfect sense to you where, you know, like, there's a lot of good books out there. You totally, like good books. And they're, you know, but you read them and they're kind of long and they have the, you know, they're laid out very well. And there's like, they go into detail, which is good.

That's kind of what a good book kind of does. Right. This one kind of violates that rule in a way because it's super basic. But that's why, in my opinion, like, when I go back to it, I can just go back to it. And boom, it's all like in there. I don't have to read. like 10 or 20 or 30 pages necessarily yeah you know so it's like fundamental principles are just wrong in your face yeah good reminder and then you got extreme ownership for combat leadership

principles that you can use in your business and life written my Bede and my brother laf babin and we have a follow up to that book coming out it's called the dichotomy of leadership you need if you want to get first edition which which you do hey somebody at Camp gave me a first edition of Ernie Pyle's book Brave Men first edition yeah how awesome is that so that feeling that that feeling right there of like I got the first edition of this book yeah brave men that's the one where he's talking about the rumbling coming the noise is building and he just know what it is and he looks up in the sky and he's like it was the heavies yeah probably one of my

favorite quotes yeah and I have the first a dish of that book now so dichotomy of leadership of course what's the publisher doing cut in corners hey we can get away oh yeah they're being conservative of course they're gonna do that they're gonna do that because that's just what they do that's what their their gamble is they they they make their little predictions and that's what they get that's what they're doing they'd rather they'd rather they'd rather actually underestimate have a little demand for the book and have a little spike and a little buzz about that So they they would rather there be less first edition or rather have more people walking around with the fourth edition

Right that's all lame So anyways yeah dichotomy leadership coming out September 25th if you want to get on that thing You can pre-order it wherever you pre-order books you can pre-order it and then got a leadership Consulting company called Echelon Front Where we solve problems through leadership. What kind of problems? All of them. Because every problem that you have inside your organization is a leadership problem.

I'm here to tell you straight up factually. No matter what the problem is, it's a leadership problem. And I know that might hurt because guess who the leader is? You're the leader. Or you're subordinate leaders. They're not doing what they're supposed to do. You need to get them on board with the program. You're not making the bottom line.

Guess what kind of problem that is? It's not a money problem. It's a leadership problem. Production's not meeting its quota. Is that a production problem? It's a leadership problem. So no matter what problems you're having and your organization, they get solved through leadership.

It's me. It's Laif. It's JP, Dave, Flynn, and Mike. And if you want us to come and work with your company, don't call a speaking agency, just go to Eschalonfront.com. And we will show up. and crush.

Muster 006 might be sold out by the time this gets released but if you want to come we talk leadership intensely and granularly for two days it's in San Francisco October 17th and 18th you can register for that at Extreme Ownership.com same with

the roll call I think we're done talking about the roll call let me ask you this roll call is when this podcast comes out I don't think there'll be any more seats so with the muster and the role this is the first roll call so I don't know but for the muster what percentage of let's say your typical group of people that come or whatever what's the percentage of appeal wise what's a percentage of just so there's information perfect you know good guidance and then there's just to hang like let's you know like if you look at the days

the days we go from eight in the morning until four o'clock in the afternoon and on the first day and and then the second day we go eight in the morning until three o'clock in the afternoon or maybe two 30 and to answer your question we start we we muster with everyone at 445 in the morning so we that whole time the eat and then when we get done at five we hang out until nine or ten that night and then the next day same thing 445 in the morning and then we go to jitzoo at night and so yeah i mean we're there the whole time yeah you will 100% hang out yeah that's what i mean with all of us like you're like yeah that's your question yeah percentage of you hanging out and is 100% yeah that's part of the

appeal right because you see yeah we muster at 445 but you one could think from the outside hey that's a workout but here's the thing yeah it's a workout but it's kind of fun you know jakey's talking trash and you know afterwards we kind of you know and it's kind of a hang until it starts at eight and then beat you know the the the breaks that you take or whatever it's like oh yeah you're kind of hanged else takes a break yeah you guys we don't take breaks no we just answer questions we talk to people we take pictures sign books whatever yeah yeah and that kind of happens throughout the whole time and then after it's sort of wraps i painted myself into i painted the whole team into a corner of that one totally did because at the beginning i was like look they're not

gonna be any green room we're not going backstage we're gonna be out there the whole time so guess what we do there's no green room there's no backstage we're out there the whole time it's like two 20 hour days is what it is yeah because four hours we get some sleep you're like yeah oh yeah you don't want a green room okay now you can't have a yeah exactly that's how it goes down on top of that like I said roll call we're pretty much done with number one you can check and see if there's any openings but it's probably not looking great right now Maybe we can open up a couple more seats.

Anyways, for that as well, register at Extreme Ownership.com. And now, of course, we have EF Overwatch. We're connecting spec ops and combat aviation leaders to companies that need leaders. People are asking, you know, what about guys from conventional forces, which the reason we started with combat aviation and spec ops

because that's where we came from, and so that's where we have community ties. Now that we actually have We actually have some people coming on the team right now From conventional forces that we work alongside Awesome leaders and so We're looking at how we're going to open this up to the rest of the military And get everyone else engaged

Because guess what? We work with the civilian sector all the time I just said problems get solved by leadership Civilian companies guess what they need? They need leaders And the military has them So that's what we're working if you want to Enroll in that from either side from either a person that wants a job or a person that's looking for leaders go to efoverwatch.com and until we do see you at one of these events or see you in the airport or see you on the jih Tjitsu mat or see you wherever if you want to interact or give us

answers or give us questions you can do that on the interwebs we are on Twitter we're on the Instagram and we're also on Facebook people echo is at echo Charles and I am at Jocka Willink and Finally to those of you who like Peter Nash Swisher who served in the military or you are serving in the military at this time Thank you for your service and for those that protect us here at home and the police and law enforcement and correctional officers and Firefighters and Border Patrol and paramedics and all other first responders Thank you for what you do day in and day out and to everyone else making your way through the world working and grinding and building and creating

that's awesome and keep doing those things and do those things with some intent some good intent the intent to make yourself better and when you've got yourself on a good path then show someone else the path help them off that slippery slope help because in another time in another place it could be you that needs help so take the world or that little part of the world that you can take it into your trembling hand and help help yourself become better help others become better and in doing so help this strange and often hostile world that we live in make it just a little bit better by getting out there and getting after it.

And until next time, this is Echo and Jocko. Out.