Jocko Podcast - 147: How to Build a Relationship with Your boss. Politics. How to Disagree Up the Chain.

Episode Date: October 17, 2018

0:00:00 - Opening 0:02:50 - Tips for good decision making 0:15:31 - How to practice "normal face" 0:33:50 - Dealing with people who don't deliver as promised. 0:31:09 - Feelings on covering Politics and Current Events. 0:46:11 - How to break past a Jiu Jitsu plateau. 0:54:13 - How to build a relationship with a boss who is distant. 1:00:53 - Dealing with a stubborn boss with a junk plan. 1:07:17 - How to disagree up the chain of command. 1:13:38 - Overbearing Extreme Ownership. 1:22:39 - Dealing with being gun-shy and hesitant after something goes wrong.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 147 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. And it's been a little while since we've done some Q&A, so we're going to do some Q&A. Cool. Thanks to everyone for the question that you have submitted to the podcast. Just a reminder, what's the best way to submit a question? The best way is Twitter or Facebook.

And, yeah, those are the best ways. Your Facebook. My Facebook or my Twitter I don't the Instagram messages are just out of control There's too many of them and I appreciate it, but I can't get a grip on them Yeah, so Twitter and and people what if it's a long question? Well Write three Twitter statements if it's longer than you know that many characters. It's probably Then go to Facebook if it's like really a long long thing

Then just go to Facebook and and send me the mess and what's that called? a Facebook message instant messenger direct message well I think DM is like a con just okay no messenger on Facebook is what I get I don't again I apologize I don't get to respond to all of them sometimes I just try and get somebody a little like hey I read it hey thanks you know you know what to do right a lot of people they're just asking me because they want to get confirmed yeah yeah you know hey do you think I'm having problems with this girl and she cheated on me but I don't know if I should leave her or not it's like you

You know what to do, bro. Yeah. You know what to do. Yeah. So, speaking of questions, thanks for everyone for the questions. And that being said, I still look at just about everything that comes in. Sometimes, sometimes they get a little bit lost, but I look at everything that comes in. Sometimes people, if you're listening, if you send me a question, some people ask me a question that I've literally been asked, and we've answered on the podcast three or four times.

So keep listening to the podcast because if I don't say anything most likely It's because I've answered that over I've answered it two or three times Or you can deduce what to do just from listening to the podcast. You'll figure out oh, I need to go get after it like yeah Yeah, when and I'll go get out. Yeah, I think that it might be a good idea to have like a what do you call frequently Yeah, I know I know We do need to do that. Yeah, so let's do it check first question we said that for like two years yeah yeah yeah I did right when I said that I was like yeah yeah no didn't Debbie put together like a whole thing on

that maybe yeah she did so we could probably dig that up and actually put it it to use which would be smart yes sir I believe I believe the same thing first question do you have any thoughts on what this disciplines someone can use to improve their decision-making skills as a leader not only in keeping clarity of thought during high-precedented situations and environments but also in making the correct decisions when it is vital okay so we talked about this last week you have to learn to detach and how do you learn to detach you learn to attach by putting yourself in stressful situations and then observing how you react so good stressful situations to put yourself in well what makes you stressed one thing that will make everyone stressed

especially when they first start is start with jiu jit-to that's gonna that's gonna put you in stressful environments look at sports what are you gonna do you know put yourself in stressful positions in sports what else makes you stress public speaking right public speaking makes some people really stressed out start doing it more what about competition shooting where you've got a or hunting where you've got to do something in a stressful environment or archery you know I started started archery recently you did oh yeah yeah yeah and so that's one of those things where you've got to learn to detach you got to learn to pay a

the things that are going on if you're all caught up in the moment then you're gonna miss it so that's number one if you want to learn to deal with stress put yourself in stressful situations that are under some kind of control you know even something like paintball you know we do gigs at Eschalon front where we put people through what we call Ft X's where you go out and you're gonna fire we usually use airsoft because it's a little bit more it's a little easier to work with but actually what we started using now is we've got these high-end laser tag guns and so that's that's what we use and they are super effective they're they're they're awesome

they're awesome training tools like if we would have had them if we would have if they would have existed when I was in the seal teams I would have used them then because they're that good so we use those and we put people in stressful situations go hit this target there's bad guys you know people are gonna get shot there's people yelling put yourself in stressful situations and learn to detach put yourself in stressful situations with the purpose of learning to detach and stepping back mentally to figure out what's going on okay that's first part next part is how do we make good decisions well number one

making correct decisions you got to study you got to know and understand you got to know the background you've got to know the historical outcomes of equivalent type decisions that have happened in the past similar situations and if you know the history and you know the background then you can use those to assess the current situation you're in and then once you assess the decisions that you can make assess the possible actions that you can take and then assess the outcomes that those decisions will have those actions will have and when you're doing that you also have to assess the possibilities

of inaction so a lot of times people forget that one they don't know they don't know if they should do a or B what they forget is there's also what I don't do either what's gonna happen sometimes not doing either is good most that or a lot of times not doing either is bad so you got a or B what should you do maybe sometimes you got to pick a or B sometimes occasionally it's better not to do anything and you wait and let the situation develop a little bit more What so the point of this is whatever you can know beforehand you know you learn you study you understand you know the standard operating procedures you know what variants variations have been made on the standard operating procedures and that's how you go forward and you execute now the thing that you have to remember is that you can't know everything beforehand which is why it goes back to study and practice detaching and making decisions so so now let me dig into detaching a little bit let's actually break that down maybe some mechanical steps that you can use

number one step back literally physically take a step back from the situation that you're in and move your head and So when we used to shoot they would teach us to scan like you would have to physically move your head And what that is is a mental reminder that you need to look around and assess what's happening So once you've taken a step off the line Whether that's taking a step back from the table when you're meeting if you're a if you're a firefighter and there's a fire happening Take a step back so you can see the bigger picture if you're in a cop and and there's a shootout happening Where can you go to step back get some cover and look around and see what's actually happening if you're a

You know if you're in a conversation with someone stop talking if there's an argument going on stop talking Take a step back and actually listen to all the other elements that are shouting and yelling at each other If there's a decision that needs needs to be made in a planning situation step back from the plan Don't just take a step back from it look at it more broadly So that's step number one is to step back Number two then you're gonna come up with hey what are the possible decisions that I can make I go this way I go a B D ABCD I could do any one of these things keep an open mind this is the problem some people

have is they they come up with two decisions three decisions and they don't think about anything else so you kind of have to like repeatedly detach you kind of have to stay detached that's why it's good you throw out an idea like if we're planning for something and I come up with three ideas I say echo what do you think of these I give them to you then I step back again I keep my mind open so that's why the more you can get your subordinates to plan the better off you're gonna be the more you can get the people below you in the chain of command to come up with an idea or come up with the ideas the better off you're gonna be because you're not embroiled in it

You're you're de facto detached because you're letting them run with it Then okay once you look at your decisions and you got to look at what the possible outcomes are What are the possible things that can happen? Is this could how bad could this go? Risk versus reward you got to weigh those things out and you got to do it fairly quickly and again you got to You got to figure out what's the result or possible outcome for inaction and then you just weigh out These various options that you've created and you figure which one which outcome has the most which one makes the most sense That's that's what's good and like I said inaction is some people like any action is better than no action not always true

Not always true sometimes you can learn more by letting things develop and letting things reveal What what the status is so that does make sense and sometimes you do hold off if if you if you can see that a problem is getting worse though well then we got to do something then generally okay let's make some kind of a decision very quickly now one of the most important things to remember and there's a little dichotomy to this is that you don't always have to make giant decisions you don't always have to make the all the the all powerful decision of might you know it's like do we go or do we not go You don't always have to say we go Right

Sometimes you can go well Let's push a little further Let's move a little bit further Before we make that decision Or hey let's stay where we are And see if it develops Or let's back up a little bit And keep watching

So instead of we go or we don't go There's actually a bunch of different decisions That you can make besides we can go or don't go There's a building there's a bad guy in it Let's go or let's not go No actually let's put eyes on the target for a little while Let's call and see if there's any other intelligence let's put an aircraft overhead there's all kinds of

decisions that you can make let's push a little bit closer let's stage let's monitor so there's all kinds of decisions that you can make that allow the the situation to develop further and maybe reveal the proper decision to you in the long run so my my fear of saying that is that people be get paralyzed what does it analyze the parallel parallel yeah analysis perhaps That's my fear about saying that because the dichotomy is you can sit around and analyze and figure out and look at something for over for forever while the situation changes and now you lose So yes, you don't have to make giant decisions, but at the same time you got to be decisive There's a dichotomy. I'm sorry. I'm sorry leadership is not easy

Wrote a whole book about it Dicotomy leadership. Why? Because that's what happens So there you go That's my assessment of how you can improve your decision-making skills. Experience goes a long way. Yes. Yeah, it's one of those deals kind of when you're talking about the results versus the method, right? Decision-making.

Sometimes like the result, actually both method and results kind of the value isn't even in the results. It's like you haven't getting that experience going through it, you know? It'll improve your decision-making. True, true. Yeah. Anytime you can be. in a situation where you're making decisions and getting experienced out it you're gonna get better at it yeah kind of the value in role playing that is a value

that's why we do a lot of role playing in that's kind of like a little thing and people might think like oh that how does that work come and get it I watch people all the time it totally improve as leaders because put them through a role play scenario as a leader yeah where they're going up against a combative subordinate or a subordinate that's lazy or a subordinate that's angry or a subordinate that that wants to leave. Like you put it you put a person role playing in those situations over and over again and they get so much better three iterations.

Three iterations. Yeah. And people are exponentially better at handling situations. Yeah. Cause it's like some of, I mean most of the time anyway, it's just a matter of them like never seen it before. And then when it's in the during game time, it's kind of like you got to make the decision super fast. So you can't analyze from the role playing situation.

You can analyze you can do whatever. And then learn it. No, that's a great point. I actually should have brought that up. That's a great point is another way that you can get better at making decisions by role playing. For sure. Give yourself the opposite. Put, set yourself up a pressure situation and have people role played out with you of what you're going to do.

Yeah, so it's kind of like mock experience. That's basically, well, it is mock experience. That's basically what seal training, well, not the basic seal training, but the seal training that I ran. That's basically what it was. We're going to have people act like bad guys and you're going to make decisions all day long. That's a role play. Yeah. Get some.

Yeah. Like remember, and again, going back to like just seen it once, right? Just seen it one time is way bigger difference than, then, I mean, compared with never seeing it all versus seen it once. The difference between that is way bigger than seeing it like twice versus once, you know? If you've seen it once, it's kind of like, okay, now. Yeah. Yeah, it's like night and day.

It's night and day. The difference between knowledge and, like, no knowledge is crazy. Yeah. And we see that over and over and over again like on Indiana Jones in the last crusade you ever seen that one I'm pretty sure wait how old is that one? I saw the all like that series when it came out I was a kid I think I see that so at the end they go through I had to see the things right they're like these booby traps right they get the Holy Grail that's what they're doing Oh then I've seen this one because everyone the guy's face melts right? No that's

Raiders the lost arc okay when they open the arc oh yeah shut your eyes Yeah, it's old school anyway, no this one they have to go through these like these tests or whatever They're their booby traps to get to the Holy Grail and one of them was you have to kneel Only the penitent man will pass. That's what it says in the Grail diary Which is Indiana Jones dad's diary that took all the notes in and So he's like oh you got to interpret that right so they had all these people there were bad guys there too so they just send us someone in there and then the guy go in and his head gets chopped off. So you go in there, you know, hey, that blade is going to come chop off my head

because I've seen that one guy get his head chopped off. I'm just going to duck. It's one time that's all you've got to know. The blade's going to come out. I'll duck. Good point. Thanks, Indy. Granted, there was more booby traps.

You kind of got to refer to the Grail diary for the answers. Subject to interpretation, by the way. But same deal. You see the point, though, right? If you walk through a hallway. I get it. You see the guy get his head chopped off. You know, okay, I better duck now.

You best duck. Yeah. Yep, I get it. Thank you. One time. One time, that's all it takes. Anyway, next question. How do you practice normal face?

So same, and the reason I group these two questions together is because there's a little, there's some similarities there. You know, how do you practice normal face, which is a legitimate skill, by the way. Yes, sir, it is. It's, oh, it's a funny little game. If you haven't heard it, what you do is I used to do some of my kids, I put line them up. And if they made any expression whatsoever besides just a normal playing face. I'd hit him in the head with the inside cardboard roll-up of a wrapping paper.

So there's the game and it's a lot of fun and we'd have fun doing it and everyone would laugh. Well, it's also useful as adult to be able to not show your emotions. So how do you do it? Same thing. Put yourself in stressful situations and you know a good one is jiu-jitsu. If you can just act normal even when someone's just crushing you Then that's a positive thing. Like you know sometimes you and I are rolling Yes, and you'll be like, oh, I felt a sense of urgency. Yes. That's when I lose normal face. It's failure to keep normal face.

So I get a little bit scramble because you're going to pass or something like that. And then you feel all good because you made me react. You broke my normal face. So yes, that's good. I would say the thing about normal face is practice it all time. You know where you practice it? You practice it like when you're driving. I mean, I can't do this anymore because when we started this podcast, I would get questions all

time about road rage yeah how do you prevent road rage how do you prevent road I think everyone's so in the game now that they're they figured it out but that's a good you know anytime where there's something bad happening like something annoying something like the line yes the line the line at the DMV the line wherever and you just just just just keep normal face and just act like whatever detach and just act normal easy money in jiu jitsu when you're in between rounds don't act tired Yeah, that's like one of my I try and maintain that rule all the time. You taught me that. Oh you I don't even know if you meant to teach me and I told the story before, but Yeah, uh, I roll like we're gonna hear it again

I just You we'd roll and I'd be tired of whatever after rolling with you and then you know and people do this all the time and it sticks it's like a red flag to me not a red flag warning of it. It just sticks out a lot when people do this after the round. They'll just flop on their back Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like breathing all hard, kind of just, you know, indicating that, oh, that was a tiring round, right? You think, yeah, you're going to have tiring rounds. I get it kind of thing. This is the message that you conveyed to me through your actions. You didn't tell me this, but through you.

So I wrote with you and I do that or something along those lines, right? Oh. And you like stand up, not breathing through your mouth. I remember that. You're just like, you know, like mouth close. And then you were looking at me almost like you're disappointed in me. I was. Yeah, I know you were.

Not thinking back. Yes, I realize you probably were. And you said, you look a little tired. And then you just walked away. Like, man, almost like that was the bad part. The part that I looked tired, that was like the bad part you didn't like. And I was like, literally from then on, I'd act like I wasn't tired in between. Even if I was tired, I'd try to act like I'm not tired actively.

That's so important. It's important in life. Yeah. You know, it's important as a leader. It's way more important as a leader than anything else when you start to break Think well I don't know if you have any examples but like I think a times in my life where I would see my leader start to break And just think how horrible that is for the rest of the team and I'd be looking at a leader that was breaking I'd be like man you are letting everyone down and I you're not going to do it to me

I'm gonna you know what actually this is an opportunity for me if you're looking weak I'm not gonna get all aggressive, but I'm gonna make sure that people aren't gonna follow that attitude Because that attitude's gonna hurt us all Yeah, so as a leader normal face is even more important Yeah, I'm not saying you never show emotions at this dichotomy I'm not saying never show emotions as a leader Because you absolutely do show emotions as a leader, but you make sure that they're controlled you make sure they're not emotion negative emotions Yeah, so am I saying to not be yourself? Yes, I am I am because if yourself is being a weak a weak loser and you're in charge of a team and you show everyone that

You're wrong. No, you need to stifle those emotions, which we've talked about before You just stifle those you need to act you need to act like hey, we're gonna make this happen Yeah, this doesn't mean lie to them this isn't like hey the boat sinking but don't worry we're it's gonna be okay No, hey guess what? Boat sinking know what we're gonna do we're gonna break out a lifejackets we're gonna form into a pool we're gonna grab whatever we can't off this fast we're gonna make sure we get some you know what I mean yeah as opposed to the boat's sinking right yeah it's true so you lead check so if um what like when your kid falls down right yeah yeah totally totally like yeah you know my gosh are you okay yeah no negative over there yeah yeah wait oh how's it i was at the park my son too climbs up high on this thing it's like a slanted uh jungle gym

kind of thing it's just slanted it's like pretty high where it's not like so high that he shouldn't be up there It's not that. But it's high where you've got to keep an eye on that thing right there. And sure enough, he takes a step or whatever and it just straight up falls to the ground. And the ground is, ah, the ground was like a bunch of this weird hay kind of stuff. So it's, it wasn't like concrete, put it that way. But he fell down, full on. And the kind of, you know the kind of other parents are looking.

And my wife is sitting right next to me kind of far away maybe. Yeah, to grab her. I literally grabbed her, like, don't run over there. And my daughter, my daughter. was there she's super caring too so I'm like I should have grabbed her too but she's far away anyway so he falls down of course doesn't cry he's more like surprised and stunned and looking around almost with a look on his face like how should I react yeah totally is that's exactly what he's doing yeah and then tell him yeah it's all good yeah I mean I'm telling how to react yeah so I didn't

I'm sure I mean when my kids would take a digger I'd start laughing you know that was awesome yeah yeah makes sense and then they're like really yeah yeah Yeah, that was awesome. You got a little skinner? Nice. Oh, look, you're bleeding. That's going to leave a cool scar. Yeah.

You're awesome. Welcome to the club. Yeah, that's a good one. Like, so, like, that's awesome kind of thing. I'll be like, oh, I stand up strong. Hurry up, hurry up. Like, kind of like, you got to beat it and, like, show me how strong you are kind of thing. Oh, I did that the other day.

Nonetheless, yeah, so he got up and he didn't cry. Of course he did. That was a high-ass fall, too. How many feet? He landed correctly. How many feet? Like, it was taller. and I stand so so we're talking seven feet like seven six six six yeah okay over over

a good digger yeah it was it was solid yeah but he landed good like if he would have landed on his head that's an injury straight up but yeah he he felt like good which is lucky but yeah nonetheless so yeah the point is if I were to oh my gosh oh it like ran over there or something like this it would have jammed him up oh yeah isn't that why the airline pilots when you get turbulence are like hey everybody just go ahead And buckle your seat belts for we might feel a little bit more that you know instead of hey guys I know we'll go yeah I very much appreciate that when we do that by the way All right so next question next question I tell the team we need this done by 3 p.m. They say got it

We'll have it done by 3 p.m. But they don't deliver on time and tell me well we didn't know we needed it done by 3 p.m. How do I take ownership of this? Mm-hmm. Yeah, this is this seems like a tough question, right? But it's actually not that tough of a question Because what you think is like well, they they said they were gonna get it done then they didn't get it done then how can that be my fault And maybe that's not how the question is meant, but that's the way I'm interpreting it for the purpose of this answer True Because maybe he just meant like hey, how do I take ownership of this and if that's the way he meant it fine the answer's the same actually So what happens is if you if that happens with you

What happens is if that happens with your team, then you take ownership of it by recognizing that you did not communicate effectively Because if your team isn't doing what it is you need them to do that is actually your fault as the team leader They either didn't understand how important it was or they didn't understand how solid that deadline was Or they didn't understand that when you said this thing needs to be completed by three o'clock that you meant Completed by three o'clock maybe it's because you usually say hey we need this done tomorrow at two and you get them slack and they just kind of take advantage of it blah blah blah then you know if you want to take ownership of it maybe you didn't follow up enough right maybe you trusted them too much whose fault is it if you trusted them so much that you

just let them you showed up at 259 is it done well no we didn't think it was due like we didn't know you needed it actually so whose fault is that it's your fault you trusted him too much maybe you gave them too much leeway right maybe you give them too much decentralized command dichotomy leadership maybe you went too far with decentralized command You said, hey, get this done by three o'clock, figure out however you want to do it. I'll be back at 259. And you roll out and it's not done.

So what do you do? You come back at three o'clock. It's not done. It is your fault. Do you take ownership of it? You say to your team, look, hey, okay, so now how do you take ownership of it? Cool. You fix the problem.

How do you fix the problem in this case? Well, guess what? Next time I tell you something's done at three o'clock, I'm going to check in with you. I'm going to check with you a few times. Here's the progress that we want to make. I want you to be here by this point. I want you to be here by this point. I want you to be here by this point.

And that puts us on track to finish well ahead of three o'clock. So let's make it happen. Are you going to micromanage a little bit more? Yes, you are. They missed a deadline. You're not allowed to miss deadlines. Yeah. Not allowed to miss deadlines.

Do I micromanage you, Echo Charles? No. Have you ever missed a deadline? No. Well, there's been some podcasts that didn't come out on time. Oh, yeah. Right? Yeah, I guess it depends on what you mean.

I guess, but, yeah, I guess. But yeah, yeah, there's been some podcasts that didn't come out on time. Yes. And I would send you a text like, hey, just wondering if you knew about a podcast that was, you know, supposed to come out five hours ago. That happened one time. Well, no, two times. I think it's happened two times. Yeah.

Yeah. One of them. Yeah. So you don't warrant micromanagement. Yeah. Because you, we've done 147 podcasts and you've had two that weren't out on time. Do I need to micromanage you? No, I don't.

Don't need to. Because we're all good. The podcast. Hey, occasionally, the times that they didn't come out, one of them was like straight up operator error where you were like, I didn't press the button publish or something really lame like that. Yeah. The other time was like major technical difficulty. We got a problem. It's going to be a couple days.

Yeah, then there was another time. What was the other time? When we went to Maine the first last year. And what happened? We just got there on the night that I was supposed to publish and my mind was just distracted by the new. I had lost my camera. It was a crazy time for everybody. And, you know, the next morning, you so, you know,

graciously posted a picture of me sleeping on the plane, by the way, and said, maybe someone can tell I could publish a podcast publicly, which is a complete violation, by the way. Take a picture of me sleeping, but hey, nonetheless. If we weren't having a fun. Yeah, yeah, it was actually completely warranted because it really captured, like, what it felt like. I just totally spaced it out.

So my point is you get stuff done on time. You have a good track record. There's no need for micromanagement if you were if you were hitting a lower number You know if every you know once every once a month it wasn't on time Yeah, you'd be hearing about it all the time for me I'd be like hey we good tomorrow We good? I'd be checking in with you until you got so mad at me following up with you You would just be like hey I got this and you would never miss it again because you didn't want to be bothered So for this one again it's important to remember that with the idea of extreme ownership It's not just like oh well I'll say

this is my fault no when you're in charge of a team and something goes wrong it actually is your fault it actually is your fault and that's all there is to it maybe there's some people you need to fire because they are the they're at fault for this mistake happening and you've let it gone too long and you didn't get rid of them that's your fault yeah but it actually is your fault how do you take on how do you take ownership of it you fix the problem maybe you got to in this particular case maybe got to step up the micromanagement that's that's the way it works Yeah, it makes sense.

Also, too, and I'm speaking from a perspective of someone who could very well easily space out this project by 3 p.m. By the way, that's potentially me. But this is when it can't happen where let's say I get a list of like three things, whatever, I got to do. Right. Like, hey, we want this or whatever. And then let's say it's not necessarily by 3 p.m. Let's say it's like by next week Friday. So I got a week and a half to do these three things and then the next day there's like another list of two things

And the next day after that one thing says hey you know what this is the priority three days later after a list been established Hey this is the priority get this done first then you got one more thing right so this thing that I said yeah got it I'll have it done by Friday kind of thing sort of get shuffled and forgot you know like forgotten so maybe I didn't organize it what's your point in saying this Are you just putting yourself on report? Are you saying that you need to make a list? Are you saying you need to write things down? People that miss things, you know what you do? You write them down.

I used to make little boxes. I'll show you some of the checklists. You come to my house. I'll show you checklists I used to make. They were psycho-o-o-cd little checklist, little boxes next to, like I would be going on a trip. I would make a little box, socks, t-shirts. Oh, dang. Okay.

That deep-book. Yeah, everything. Every single thing I was taken, I would have on a list. I still got those lists. I got deployments from the 90s of what I took on a lot. That's pretty legit right there little boxes little boxes in the 90s they were written down on paper Then in the 2000s. I got the computer Cool and I print those things out no so hey yeah people have problems if you personally are telling me that you have a problem

You got to write something down. Yeah, so yeah and obviously you know mean you're different I don't have those kind of notes But what I'm saying is Yeah like that could be your methodology of your micro quote unquote micromanagement style for themes like this just make sure they got it kind of thing like if yeah for sure things I'm thinking about in fact there could you can you can give lists I normally wouldn't have to do this but sometimes there's been a couple times on my life and career where I'd have to give people a list like hey I make the boxes for them like hey here's what you got to get done today yeah make sure we understand each other I would only

do that if they dropped the ball a couple times yeah like oh they didn't get this done they didn't get that done okay guess what I need to write it down to make sure it happens yeah so yeah and again it's not like and I'm not saying it's not my fault because you give me too much. I'm not saying that. I'm saying like not everyone, me. I'm talking about me. Not everyone's as organized as maybe you, you know.

So they're going to need some micromanagement in this particular way, you know. Because maybe that's it. I mean, I think the tone here, the question could be me, totally could be me mystery. Yeah, yeah. But it kind of seems like, hey, they said they got it and they didn't get it. What more do you want for me kind of thing, you know? That's a good way of putting it. I just gave the list of what more you can do yeah exactly you can spell it out for them you can

micromanage you can check in do check-ins with them do all those things yeah and then there it next quest next question you must have strong feelings about current events and politics generally given your experience yet you remain silent on this issue why to appeal to a larger audience or the soldiers mentality of not criticizing the commander in chief is that why do I have strong feelings on current events and politics sure I do but they're more broad so I have very strong broad feelings on current events and politics I am a patriotic person I believe very strongly in individual freedoms of human beings I believe in having a very strong military I believe in having a small government so I have

strong feelings about those things however I don't have strong feelings about the nonsense and micro dramas that are on the 24 hour news cycle that are just cons and social media just constant things and we talked about this last podcast things that don't matter so much of the current events don't really matter in the big picture to me or even to the country and you know I was on Ben Shapiro show and you know he was I basically said look like the overall Americans have sort of the same goals and he said I don't know if I believe that and I said well I work with all kinds of companies with people all over the country and the people that a guy like Ben Shapiro hears from

He's just he's just bombarded by the extremes on both sides 24 hours a day I don't want to be in that position of getting bombarded by these extremes 24 hours a day I said Ben you're right there are some people in the country that believe the far left or the far right I said most people are concerned about their life and doing a good job and you know building their business or you know paying down their mortgage that's what they're concerned about and so they're not like freaking out about the little every little micro drama that gets unleashed into the press and social media every single day and so so why do I not join into that because I don't want to join

into that and also I don't want to make a podcast I don't want to spend all my time making a podcast that's that's out of date the day it comes out like I don't want to I don't want to invest my time in that I don't want to and guess what there's there's literally giant multi-billion dollar news media outlets and guess what they do that's what they do all day That's what they do all day they make a story about this thing and that thing and this thing I can't react fast enough it's just dumb So if we were to be talking about current events then that by the time the podcast comes out the current event has been over Some people are listening to this podcast and it's it's it's two thousand and 22 right now

Right now some someone is listening to this podcast right now and it's 2022 No, there's no topic of current events that we could talk about, or barely any, that actually impact what's happening four years from now. People, I meet people every day now. I meet people that are, that say, hey, oh man, I've been listening to podcasts. I'm on 28. That's, that's two years ago, right? That's two years ago. What was the, what was the current events two years ago?

They were totally different than they are now. So, so there's, So that's why little current events thing as far as appealing it to a larger audience that part of the question Well if my goal was to appeal to a large larger audience and I think I actually would talk about the trendy stories of the day and put out little little clips of Soundbites of all this stuff and instead of instead of doing what I do now which is to read a hundred year old out of print books Like that's a great way to build an audience or let's talk about the Rwandan genocide or let's talk about the Holocaust or let's talk about the Rape a Nanking or let's talk about the Mila massacre that ought to build a great audience So so the idea that oh I'm trying to build a larger audience

It's like no actually people that want to listen to this want to listen to it I'm not trying to I'm not trying to build an audience by Manipulating what what I'm thinking about no I'm actually I'm I'm talking about and I'm diving into what I find important And what I think I can learn from and I get more out of this podcast than anybody I mean I know a lot of people say oh I've gotten a lot from your podcast I get more out of it than anybody because I get to dive deep into this stuff and really look at it So no it's not the trying to appeal to a larger audience in fact if I want a larger your large audience. I do exactly what you're talking about As far as the soldiers mentality of not criticizing the commander in chief I actually don't agree I don't agree that that's a soldier's mentality and I don't believe that it should be a soldier's mentality the soldier's mentality the soldier's mentality the soldier

should question their leadership. Now, should they do it tactfully? Absolutely. Because I don't want to be surrounded by yes, man. That's wrong. Also, if you, what am I trying? This is just a general leadership principle. What have I said a thousand times on this podcast?

I'm trying to build a relationship with a person above me in the chain of command. So when I was in the military, if I wanted to have influence over my boss, over my commander and chief, would I outwardly criticize them and make them think, oh, this guy just doesn't like me. I'm going to take my first chance to get rid of them or not promote him. No, I'm actually going to play the game and I'm going to look and say, okay, boss, hey, I see what you're doing here. I want to support what you're doing, but does this make sense? Can we do it a different way? So I'm trying to build a relationship with my boss up the chain of command. I'm not trying to ostracize them by making them look bad or by openly criticizing my boss in, you know, in the open.

Because what have I done? Is my boss going to listen to me? No. Actually, my boss isn't going to listen to me at all so I don't want to be surrounded by yes men but at the same time if someone's making a bad decision if someone's doing something that's a moral or illegal I'll call them out on it all day long now the other thing that happens here is this is a new world and it's a and this is a binary world of sound bites that's what we've done we've created this by now binary world of sound bites when most answers that you want to give as a human being aren't one sentence or two sentence on the far left or far right or far light or far dark like there's going to be you have to explain things a little bit more and but

when you take these binary sound bites everyone's immediately thrown into an extreme category on the far left or the far right as and as soon and here's the bad part here's the really bad part as soon as you get thrown into one of those camps then the other camp stops listening to you completely. They stop listening to you anything you say. So you could make a great point, but if you're on the other side, it doesn't matter.

No one's listening. They don't want to hear it. Because you're on the other side, you're the enemy. It's a binary world. You're either with me or against me and there's no in between. So that's kind of what we've created.

And what I would rather do is have people actually listen to what I say broadly and make their own choices, rather than me trying to force an opinion down their throat. This is the way it is this is the way it should be and by the way just like leadership you can't force people You can't force an opinion down someone throat you doesn't work You can't sure it'll work for 30 seconds It'll work for five minutes to work for five days in a leadership position yeah you better do what I say

My way is right eventually you that kind of leadership does not work And it's the same thing with trying to force an opinion down someone's throat If you listen to what I'm saying you can form your own opinion and I would rather have you do that because that's gonna be stronger than Some opinion that I tried to force down your throat Which doesn't work by the way So I would rather people listen to me and not just sound bikes and see where I'm coming from holistically and see where they can agree and disagree and see what feedback they give me because by the way I could be wrong about something which I have no problem with But I would rather do that

I would rather have that approach Then join the pack whichever pack that is join the pack on the street and and And bark loudly like the rest of the dogs. I have no interest in doing that. So, there you go. Agree. Dang, bro. Yeah.

And it's funny, man, you're, you're like one of the few people who, I mean, you know, like that whole thing. I mean, to sum that up, I mean, I've heard that before where someone would be like, hey, I'm, you know, I'm like this way. But it's so very, it's so few people that actually do that the way, the way you do. even in real life, like in real life. Like you don't, even when political stuff will come up, it's real obvious that you didn't jump into any specific group. Yeah, well, this really ties back to last week's podcasts of getting involved in things that don't matter.

And there is just so much out there that doesn't matter. Now, where you have to be careful is that that there's so many things that don't matter. But what I am not saying that little things don't matter. You see what I'm saying? There's a huge disparity between those two things. There's a lot of things that don't matter. What I am not saying is that little things don't matter because there are little things that do matter.

And the classic example that we brought up over and over and again on this podcast is like, oh, the Russian soldiers not shaving in Chechnya and how that led to their eventually, okay, not going to shave. Now we're not going to clean our weapons. Now we're not going to stay awake on our watch. Now we're not going to execute the missions we're being told to do. now we're getting beat there are little things that matter but if I'm barking all day long about things that don't matter then we have a problem we have a problem now I'll tell you something

else there's been some issues that have come up lately there was one issue that I was going to address on the podcast but and I still might address it because it's a small problem that I see as being a more significant problem and if it continues down the road but but luckily at this point there's there's a whole pack of dogs barking about it it wasn't like it wasn't like I noticed this problem and no one else saw it was like I noticed this problem so did millions of other people and they all those dogs start barking okay so now what am I gonna do bark with them yeah it's like okay now if there comes a time where all of a sudden I realize there's one of these small things

that matter or a big things that matter that I don't see getting the traction that it Needs well then I will absolutely say hey this is what I think about this situation Generally there's so many people barking and they're barking about the same thing They're barking about a lot of things that don't matter They're barking about some things that matter and right now unless I mean what do I say all the time? The less you the less you speak the more people listen So if I want to give my my opinion on the daily news every hour on the hour no listen to anything I've got to say and then it's a waste it's a waste it's a waste it's a waste of my time because there's more important there are more important things when we can

when we can when we can dive into human nature through the lens of war through the lens of leadership through the war of a trac if we can learn and teach people about the past so that we can prevent it from happening in the future that to me is infinitely more impactful than barking about some current event that's happening that's going to be gone in a week it's it's amazing how how fast stuff comes up on the radar it's It's all over the headlines and in a week it's gone in a week it's gone. Yeah. So I'm just not gonna play that game.

I have, I don't, there's no point in doing it. That's a really good way to put it. It's like these current events most of the time seem to be shaped in a way to just For dogs to bark about you know like that's what it is like here and then then they park and the next thing, you know? Yeah, okay bark about this now. The sound bite thing is really interesting. to that everything is a sound bite and it either puts you in one camp or the other camp and the fact of the matter is you can't put me in a camp You can't yeah, because I got beliefs that you don't understand On one side on the other side. Yeah, you know and so you can't talk to me about that kind of thing

You can't not that you can't talk about you can't put me in a camp But the instinct of the world right now is take that person and put him in a camp I'm not going in the camp that's what's happening If you want to figure out what I'm thinking listen to what I'm saying about listen to what I'm saying in hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours where I talk about Human nature. Right? If you want to figure that out and then you want to ask me a pointed question about something cool Ask it bring it if it's something that's gonna if it's if it's a bark if you want me to bark about something I'm probably not gonna bark about it So what throwing you in a camp all you'd have is a whole lot of unhappy campers? No, you throw me in a camp if you put me in one camp The other camp doesn't listen anymore

And that and that means their minds are close So they're not gonna and is The fact the matter is there's There's good people in both camps And and both people can be Can be can change and can accept new ideas If their mind is open if their mind isn't open They're just staying their camp and everyone else

I mean when you watch the extremes of either camp right now it's it's like it's like really it's it's bizarre a world yeah it's kind of odd yeah so you you just sit there and say okay what why am I gonna play that game yeah let's just become better people that understand people better and we'll make better make the place make the world better can't disagree okay yeah the whole unhappy camper that was me more making a joke I dig it yeah it no it was a good attempted humor well actually no it wasn't it was a failure but that's cool What was the other point you made? Sometimes it's better to just try, you know, and see what up.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. See what up? Now I know. Now you know, don't try that again. Yeah. No more jokes from Echo Charles. I've learned from my mistakes. Anyway, next question.

What is the best way to break through a plateau in jujitsu? I'm stuck doing the same moves against the same training partners that have the same moves done to me. Beating the same guys and getting beat by the same guys. What should I do? What should he do? Well, I'll tell you what I would do. Going a crazy training binge. Yeah.

Take a week off from work and train eight hours a day. Just get crazy. Make sure you're healthy and then take a week off and train eight hours a day like nuts. That's number one. Number two, you could also opposite take a short break. Take a little time. Don't take a long break. Take a little step back.

That's another option. Another option is only start working on certain moves like only utilize one like okay So every time you get arm lock from the bottom of you you got your guard player don't play guard anymore Yeah, don't play guard anymore Start just look I'm not gonna play guard every time I'm gonna come up and I'm gonna get us I'm gonna go for a single leg from the bottom like Dean does I'm gonna do that every time until I start making it work That's what I'm gonna do and if I get choked a thousand times that's fine because I'm gonna get better at it eventually And the other thing is training

Like you know you get your little click of training partners at your gym to start training with some of the other people that have different body styles and different body shapes so you get used to you have to bring out a new part of your game the first one that I talked about Training binge eight hours a day I know it's hard for people actually make that happen It's not for everybody The the the times that I've done that The first time I did it I actually do it was the time that I taught the the jocco the Jiu-Jitsu for offense the jiu-jitsu offense for combat killing operations the Jocco course and I trained these guys it was a small group it was like five of us and we trained all day and one of the guys was equivalent to me Dan he was like we were both like blue belts and so we not only we were teaching people but we were training long and like my jiu-jitsu visibly got better in a in a five-day period because I trained super hard for five straight days.

So that's a cool way. You could probably do it for a weekend. You know, probably just like a three, take a Friday off, train Friday, Saturday, Sunday, eight hours a day. Work on some stuff. Yeah. worse first you're gonna get you're gonna lose you're gonna lose some of these guys that you have been tapping you're trying something new yeah well yeah that is indicator for sure the i like the

do certain moves or omit certain moves because like it's a natural thing where like you when you're when you're ascending right when you're when you're training um you kind of settle into a certain type of game you know so maybe yeah you like to play guard a lot maybe you like to get the triangle from the guard a lot that's your kind of go-to you know where it almost it becomes sort of this almost like a muscle memory kind of thing where it's like, boom, you'll pull guard, your routine in a role, no matter who you're going against, it's real similar all the time, right? So yeah, if you start omitting that stuff where it's like, okay, I'm not, I won't go for that

triangle anymore. I'll play guard, but it cannot do the triangle. So it forces you to do other stuff. And then sometimes, depending on your experience, you might have two, three, four go-toes, right? So you still, you're still kind of trapped in that same plateau by if you just omit one move. So in that case, you think of a move that you might. notice other people getting a lot not necessarily on you but you know just in general and be like hey that's all i'm going to do i can't get any other submission i can't i can't only do i don't know

the guillotine for example right let's say you you just don't do guillotine that much or whatever i know you can't relate to that but you say okay i'm only going for guillotine if i'm like in my guard i can't really like i can't really get a guillotine from the guard or whatever it put it this way if you're not good of guillotine that'll force you to find ways to get the guillotine it'll just force you and then if you do that for one of the way I would say maybe even like three months maybe in six months Brian sergeant was like hey yeah like I what I did I because he like he likes to play on top smash from the top he's like I didn't just for six months I just didn't play on top well that might have been you who said that

I don't know one of you guys said that that definitely happened with me yeah it definitely happened with me I didn't like being on the bottom yeah and then I just just like okay yeah No sweeps allowed. No, like, starting from the top. If you're starting, you pull guard, that's it. Like, no, that's your rule. And that's the thing. It's hard to, like, it's hard to come to training.

Unless you have this plan in your mindset. It's hard to come to training and be like, you know what? I think I'm going to just only play guard today if, like, you don't like guard. Because it's like, I don't want to get, like, tapped out for everybody, you know, especially when you just got your purple belt, you know, or something like this. It's hard to do that. But yeah, if you just make up your mind, kind of think of it long term, like I'm playing the long game here, and just only go for that certain move that you want to get good at. That's all you're doing.

It'll, that'll bust past the plateau, easy. It'll, I don't know about easy. It's a good way to work through your plateau. But I think that's a very high probability that you'll get past it. Yeah, yeah. And also, uh, but it's not easy. No, no, it's all work. Because you just said bust through your plateau, easy.

It's not easy. Yeah, but it's actually hard. Yeah, yeah. Okay, and I dig it. I just want to make sure people aren't like, oh, you know, Echo said to just try one move and then it's going to be easy to break the... No, that's actually not true. Yeah, that's actually hard to... It's a, it's hard to not just resort back to what you're good at and B, when you don't resort to what you're good at, you get your ass kicked on a regular basis, which is not fun.

Yeah. So it ain't easy. Yeah. And that easily could be the two main challenges of going through Jiu-Jitsu journeys. Those two things. Yeah. arguably. Um,

yes, you were right, correct. That is absolutely correct. If that's what you mean by easy. What I kind of sort of meant was, you'll, there's the probability of breaking passes high.

There's this surf spot that I surf at. Yes. And one of the ways to get out of the water is dangerous, but fast. Yeah, gotcha. The other way to get out of the water is mellow, but it's a longer walk.

And I was surfing, with my buddy stoner he's like hey which way is it easier to get out and I said well bro depends on what you mean by easier yes sir because one of them's not more than a few steps once you're good yeah but getting good is getting to that point is is a challenge the other way is real easy but it's a long walk so it just depends what you mean by easy yeah yeah so I mean to me probability-wise. Let's say if you chose to break through your plateau

by going to another gym to train with all different guys, that would get past your plateau. But I think if you did this thing where you omit a certain move or you just add a move that you're not good and that's only what, if you did that and really committed to it correctly, which is hard, by the way, mentally.

But if you did that, I think, I think you, the probability of you breaking past your plateau and ending up at a further place in regards to progress is much higher if you did that. Yeah, yeah. That's what I think. And that's what I meant by easy which I guess yeah that shouldn't use the word easy Depends what you mean by easy also do tournaments plenty if you do a lot of tournaments

bro you'll you'll bust past the plateau yeah weaknesses will be exposed yeah and it's like You'll your mind will be way more at ease in training too it'll be like more okay It's weird for sure I think so anyway next question how do you apply the principle of building a relationship with your boss when your boss doesn't value relationships for example he consistently avoids interactions that don't lead directly to a deliverable on a current objective he avoids all other interactions such as those that are for the purpose of building relationships and chemistry within the team okay what would I do in that situation well then obviously what I would do is I would build a relationship based on deliverable

current objectives right if that's what he's into I'm gonna make that happen like I'm gonna be the guy that He thinks can get this to happen and that's what our relationship is gonna be based on and I'm fine with that when he wants to talk about work I'll talk about work I had bosses like that I had plenty of bosses like that And what do you do when you have bosses like that and play the game like okay, we're gonna Let's just make this happen. Let's do this Now let me say this Because he isn't personable

This means that you have to be more personable not so much with him but with the rest of the team because there's a lacking element within the team that you as a good team player and team member and leader whether you're in a positional leadership or just a human leader you can improve the team

by building some of that human connection that bonds the team more so even though my boss is impersonable and is just about the business and just about the current objective that's fine with me I'm gonna do my best to support him and make him realize that I'm gonna got the guy that's gonna make those Objectives work and I'm gonna build the human connection with the rest of the team which will make our team stronger now I am not going to Offend my boss by being the guy that is more popular than him

Some people have some some some people that have the attitude that this individual's talking about what would you call this person? Just like 100% work focused If I got a guy that's 100% work focused Sometimes that kind of boss Finds the person that wants to chat Annoying Right? Annoying Which is possible

So you don't want to be You don't want to annoy the boss And he thinks all this This guy joggle he just wants to build friends He's not here to work no you've got to be careful about that And the weird thing is honestly I'm very work focused I'm very work focused

And I have to like I don't really have to do anymore But I used to like I have to consciously think about Okay on top of actually I still do have to do it sometimes You know like I have to consciously think about like Okay I also need to like Be nice and build relationship with the person that I don't Normally interact with right

So you do have to do that So form the relationship with the rest of the team the good relationship and then form the best relationship that you can with the boss and that is going to help the whole team that's it it's as simple as that and I'll say one more thing about this you don't get to pick your leader generally you don't get to pick your leader but you can pick the relationship that you have with your leader yeah so what your leader's into let's get in the game let's build a good relationship once again if someone's out there thinking oh so you just want me to kiss ass what I'm saying is not that I want you to kiss ass I'm saying I want

you to win that's what I'm saying because the better relationship you build with your boss the more influence you have over them the better chance you have of getting promoted the better chance you have of accomplishing the mission and taking care of your team that's that's the way it works why do I want to get promoted so I can get more money for myself no I want to get promoted so I can do the mission so I can take care of my team that's why I want to get promoted if it was just about like taking care of myself I wouldn't go work for this guy I'd go find another job and pick a different boss because you do get to pick your boss You can quit your job quit your day job

So that's what you do you build that relationship Hard as it is get so yeah, that's a good point with the with the kind of the details of it where you can't just start Trying to chat the guy up no he's not he doesn't like that yeah no one does actually even if you're a social person but you're let's say you're just focused on something You know and I don't know You focus on it. And then your friend calls you. And you're like, oh, they called me. It might be important.

Yeah, why are you talking? Yeah, and they're telling you about, you know, the episode of whatever last night. And you're like, Brad, I'm working right now. Brian, I don't watch TV. Don't call me again. Oh, yeah. Now you're going to step further than I had in mind. But I'm just saying that that's annoying no matter who you are.

So if you're thinking, you know, this boss is like he doesn't like to quote unquote build relationships and like all the stuff. He's only, then you're going to run that risk of annoying them. Yes, you got to be. So I said you got to be careful. That's a big step back. Dichotomy. Dichotomy.

But there's little, and usually it has to do with time too, you know. So if you go in and you just go, just little digs of like relationship building stuff, but not, don't take, don't go in there and be like, hey, did you catch the game last night? Don't do that stuff.

I don't want to talk about the game. I don't care. But, you know, I don't know. Nice tie. Boom, out, you know, kind of thing. I don't know. Don't say nice tie. I don't know.

No, don't. Yeah. Next question. The guy that's a high level worker, does not want to hear about his tie. He does not care about his tie. Yeah. But actually, you know, he's a lot of people. But, yeah, and I don't know, I haven't been in the corporate scenario.

I think my whole life, but, so I don't know, that just seemed like something on the movies, they might say. Once you gave a long thing about your shirt. That wasn't corporate. That was in a nightclub. Well, still. Leadership. Yeah, same kind of for sure. And the point is, there's things you can say that don't take up his time and necessarily his full attention to annoy him that you can say.

or do so I'm saying I don't know what that is because I don't I don't I don't I don't work with you guys But check next question hey Jocco my boss is trying to implement I say boss because it's highlighted my boss I don't know why it's highlighting all my bosses it works man somebody was talking about on social me about how you said peas you feel like I went to the grocery store I got some peas I mean hey you know so it's a you know variable yeah I don't know when I say that. Nonetheless, variable escalation.

Sure. My boss is trying to implement a process that I see the end result not being what is needed. And I have proposed an alternative that is proven and will add value to the company. Do I give up trying to position to get the outcome we need? Or do I commit to help implement his process and wait for the outcome then try again? It is a relatively small failure in the big piece. Picture outcome, but would like some input on how to get the results we need long term. Very cool question.

And so, yeah, you got a scenario where your boss wants to do something. You know you got a better idea that'll work better. What do you do? Well, first of all, any way that I can make my idea and his idea, that's what I'm going to try and do. So you have to be careful. And again, I don't know. Your boss might be an open-minded person. If you've got a good leader, you can go in there and say, hey, boss, this is what you're

trying to make happen. I think this will work better. And your boss makes, oh, wow, that's a great, that's a great idea. know what let's go with you that there's there's leaders like they're out there that make it happen you're probably not asking this question if you have that kind of boss you're probably talking about someone that has a little bit more ego thinks they thinks you know a little bit more not really open-minded to new ideas and that's why making your idea into his idea is gonna be a better option don't try

and force your idea and one thing you do is you could you could ask questions and I've talked about this before but like you say something like you know hey Hey boss I want to make sure that I'm supporting this in the best way possible so I really want to understand This fully so can you explain this here to me and why we're doing it like that and then you know you have a conversation with your boss and then you go oh and maybe your boss has some good points that you didn't understand or maybe that opens the door for you to say hey boss the way that this other group is doing it is like. I? Do you think we could try that? Or you say if you want to eagle him up a little bit it's like hey boss you know I don't I don't fully understand this you know as well as you do could you just help me understand why? I? I don't I don't fully understand why? I don't you do could you just help me understand why? We're doing it this way and then once again what you're doing is you're starting a conversation If you can't get the message across in that indirect manner

You can be a little bit more direct but be careful when you're direct with people They dig in man they dig in especially with anyone with any kind of Edo ego ego they dig in You tell them your idea and they just all of a sudden they they they come up with reasons not to do it And you have to be careful. That's why you have to use caution when you reveal your plan it's better to not even reveal it as your plan it's better to reveal it as like an idea and then let it become their plan don't reveal your emotions okay now if all that fails and this guy's just dead set in hey we're no we're doing it my way shut up echo we're not listening to your plan we're doing it my way then what

you do yeah you go all in you support it the best your ability you you you try and learn what they want you try and execute what they want you try to understand what They want better than anyone else including him. So that way you go out, you execute, you know where all the weaknesses are, now you learn, and now you can come back with a better argument or a better seed to plant in their head. Hey boss, I know your plan. It's working really, really well. One thing that we could do to make it even better, I think, what do you think of this? If we did XYZ instead of XYB, I think it might work a little bit better.

What do you think? and then you again you plant this you plant the team and maybe I mean you plant the seed and maybe you can incorporate you know there's times where there's times where I did this oh that's what you want to do boss cool got it yep that's what we're gonna do go and do something same result get the same result but do it a different way you know it's the ask for better to ask for forgiveness than

right permission yeah then then permission so sometimes it's like it's like they began we're going back to the idea of things that don't matter if my boss wants me to do it one way and I can do it just a little bit different and no one's going to know and it's going to be all good and our results going to be the better or the same. I'm probably just going to be like, hey boss, I got it. And then hey boss, yeah, on the fly, we made a little call here. We went with AYB or ZDA instead of ZDB.

I hope it's not bad, but here's the results. By the way, we did an even shorter time. And the boss goes, oh yeah, that's cool. It's no big deal because he sees the results and he wants to take a little bit credit for him. So again, what's this about? This is about building the relationship. So let me ask you this.

This is important. A good question to ask yourself. What will help the team more? What will help the team more? Will it help the team more to disrupt the relationship and undermine the boss? Will that help the team? No. Will it help the team if you create an antagonistic relationship with your boss?

No, that won't help your team. Will it help your team if you build a relationship with your boss if you unify the team if you strengthen the team and you bring everyone together Will that help the team? Yes, it'll help the team Will that build a relationship with your boss? Yes, it'll build a relationship with your boss If you have a better relationship with your boss is your boss more likely to Accept the influence that you're throwing at him? Yes, absolutely So I think that's something you can ask yourself a lot Is what I am trying to do going to help the team or hurt the team?

And you actually have to look at those two in the long term and the short term. Because sometimes you do something that hurts the team right now and it'll help the team later. Like for instance, hey, we're going to fire a guy. Everyone loves him, and it's going to disrupt the team,

but long term will be better off. Sometimes that works. Sometimes it's like, we're going to fire this guy. Everyone loves him. And it's going to be a long term down. It's going to be a long term detriment that you made this call.

So you have to check yourself and check what's going to help the long term, short term, Of the team is it gonna make it better is gonna make it worse in this case Try to make your plan your boss's plan if you can't then support build relationships and influence over the long term Especially because this guy very smart to mention that this is a relatively small failure Like this isn't a huge risk doesn't eat you can hey boss you know what we got it done didn't quite got come the same way Here's where we're going so very good question

Next question similar question yeah this is why I grouped this one together too we had a couple grouped question this is one of them jocco I was wondering what your advice is for disagreeing up the chain of command obviously this needs to be done with some tact I eat in private not in front of others but in those private conversations how should one respectfully disagree again that's again similar question a better technique than disagreeing is just to ask questions you know boss hey I want to make sure I get this right can you explain it to me again can you can you watch me do it right so your boss actually sees what the problem is

That way You're not being offensive Hey boss can you explain why you chose this course of action? I really want to learn from from what you do What you the way you do it I again Does that sound like a kiss ass? Yes because I'm exaggerating. You know what I mean? Hey boss, you're so incredibly smart No, I'm not talking about that because bosses don't like kiss kiss or at least good bosses

Good bosses don't and actually Even good bosses they might keep their kiss asses around but they don't respect them so you don't gain influence by being a kiss ass it's not a good situation so I'm not talking about kissing ass but you know hey boss I'm really want to understand this and make sure I understand it can you can you explain to me why this is the best way to make this to do this versus the other way you know that's the kind of question that's not kissing ass that's actually you know it is actually legitimately wanting to know well like I legitimately want to know maybe you

what if we instead of assuming that we know better than our boss what if we assume that my boss knows better than me let's make that assumption and if you communicate with that assumption Then you're probably going to communicate in a much better way than communicating with the assumption that my boss is an idiot and I know better than him. Yeah. Which is not a good way to communicate. Yeah. It's funny when you, now that you kind of said that about the kiss-ass guy, because that comes up a lot.

I don't want to be kiss-ass. And yeah, you don't. The kiss-ass guy is the same thing as being friend-zoned. You know what friend-zoned mean? Yeah, I do. It's the same thing. Yeah. So like the girl, right, typically it's a guy who gets friend-zoned, right?

Because he's like too nice. He's too nice. He's too whatever. He's essentially a... You're like a brother to me. An intimate, yes, man. That's what he is. So, of course the girl's going to keep him around for all this like good feeling superficially, by the way.

I don't mention lunch. All that stuff. All the superficial stuff. He's not going to get anywhere of legitimacy with her. Actual decision makings if you translate that into the, you know, work environment or whatever. Where, yeah, the boss, I mean, a certain kind of boss, just like a certain girl's going to keep a guy around for that reason. Certain boss.

is going to be like yeah I'll keep him around I feel a little bit bad even firing the guy like that a little bit because he's just so nice to me gives me all these compliments and even in a in a weird way I think the kiss house guy kind of knows that too you know like how why would he ever fire me even though he's not that good of his job or whatever right because you know he can't fire me I'm just too nice to me you know there's that feeling is floating around is what I'm saying but it's the same deal right like it's too many compliments just too much of a yes man I'll keep you around for very very superficial reasons but that's it brother you you don't get past yeah that's and that's not a good no place to be in no it's not sir that's why I'm not saying kiss-ass and the way I just explained that of actually assuming that your boss knows more than you isn't is a good way to approach the situation as opposed to approaching the situation like you know more than your boss yeah why act like that the outcome isn't going to be inferior the outcome is inferior the outcome of of acting like your boss or assuming that your boss knows more than you the outcome is you treat them with respect

Because the other way you could try and treat them with respect Respect but inadvertently you sound like you know some people I just we we talk about normal face right Some people they cannot even ask a question In an in a respectful way, right? They can't even what was I saying over here? They can't even say you know, hey boss Can you explain this to me because I? I really want to under they can't even say that you know hey boss can you explain this to me because this doesn't make any sense you know what I mean like they can't even got it yeah can't even ask a question in a respectful way yeah that's a skill you should master as a leader and as a

follower as a leader and as a follower how to ask questions in a respectful way layf pointed this out layf pointed out we were talking about the fact of of I would say with it's a story he's told a bunch of times of going through the kill house and he's in the back of the train and you shouldn't be in the back of the train you should be somewhere where you can lead everyone because when you're in the back of the train you don't know what's happened in the front of the train of assaulters a big group of people moving through kill house and I didn't and he goes you know jarko didn't say hey stop doing that and do it this other way he's like he asked me questions and he's like they were real questions

I wasn't like hey leif why the hell are you in the back of the train yeah yeah is that a respectful question no it's not a respectful question but it's like hey laif what are you doing in the back of the train yeah this is a respect I'm actually assuming that maybe Laif who doesn't have the experience that I have who's my subordinate as a platoon commander to me the big task unit commander My assumption is not that I know more than him my assumption is that he's got a reason for that my assumption is that he knows more than me Which this is one of the one of Jordan Peterson's 12 rules for life It's like I think it's assume the person that you're talking to knows more than you what I'm saying is the same thing up and down the chain of command You assume that your boss or your subordinate knows something that you don't know and if you can if you can ask questions in that way

Instead of asking questions boss. What are we doing this for? Or Leif why are you doing that? Leif why are you in the back of the train? That's stupid. No It's like hey Leif. Why are you in the back of the train? What do you what is what is your purpose of being back there? I genuinely Want to know and and this isn't like I'm not even saying I'm acting like that I truly genuinely want to know What the deal is. So make the assumption up and down the chain of command that your boss, your subordinate, knows more than you, and then ask good questions with true genuine curiosity that you want to know the answers to.

It's a good way to go about it. I agree. Next question. I'm a young warehouse manager that takes ownership for anything and everything that goes wrong. This seems to offend my co-workers How can I fix it? Okay, classic dichotomy leadership quest right there. You've gone too far.

That's what's happened. You've gone too far. So what you have to be, what you have to do is don't be offensive when you take ownership. When you take ownership, you can't be offensive. When you take ownership, some people get a,

offended by that so when you say hey know what this is mine I got this that bothers some people when you say you know what this is my fault I'm gonna fix it that even that offend some people what the tone just the tone yeah I'm like no this is hey my fault I got this and you do that three to three times four times five times and also because oh what everything's his fault nice he's got to fix everything they he doesn't think I can fix it right you can offend people with with with all kinds of stuff you don't have to very hard to offend people I mean there's people get offended when you say something nice to him You know what I mean yes you know what I mean? Oh yeah I was watching

I met I met the ever seen the yoga dude that does like yoga videos he's got red hair His name is spears. Yeah, yeah I met him just randomly getting off a plane But he's he what I it spears or seers Sears Sears? I think it's Sears maybe what I say spears? I mean What I say spears? Yeah, I don't know because he's I know the guy though Yeah, he's a spiritual A-F on his show Yeah, yeah

Yeah, very funny guy Very cool guy And I was once I met him I was laughing I was checking out a couple of his videos But one of them was, you know, How to be offended Yeah, at all things And it's hilarious

Because that's exactly what people People, some people Can get offended by anything Yeah So That's what you gotta watch out for it Even when you're taking ownership people can actually be offended by that if you go too far.

So instead of overtly stepping up and taking ownership in this particular case, then you can tell what's going on here. My brother here, young warehouse manager, he's fired up, he wants to make things happen, he wants to get after it. And so what does he do?

He's like, oh, I read extreme ownership. I'm going to take ownership of everything. And that's a great attitude to have, except for you can offend people when you go too far. Because you got to read the second book that I got into leadership so that you can,

You can balance that out a little bit. So instead of saying like, hey, this is mine, I'm going to take ownership of this and make it happen. Instead, you know, you look at someone, you say, hey, you know what? Do you want me to take care of this? Hey, you know what? That's probably in my department.

You want me to take care of that? So that way, or like, hey, it seems like this should be something I should take care of you want me to handle that. Instead of me, me, me, me. I got asked a question the other day at a Q&A. And the question started off with the person started the question with I've got the most I've got the question that everyone in here needs answered So so out of the gate I was like okay, so we have a situation here, right? Because that immediately tells you that in that person's head they've got they've got the question that everyone needs answered

So there's already an ego scenario happening like out of the gate So same thing here you don't know if you're gonna touch someone's egos right so when you say look this is my deal and I'm gonna fix it like some people will take offense that so again you soften those a little bit Try and give credit up the chain of command right try and give credit down the chain of command Instead of all take ownership of it's like hey we got what if you say we when when credit gets dulled out Get past that credit on pass it to your peers pass it your subordinates pass it to your board it's pass it to your boss so that's it take ownership what you need to do at this point young man is take ownership of being offensive yeah and when you do that you're gonna be less offensive you're gonna be more covert hey guess remember I said earlier like you don't get to

pick the boss you you don't get to pick your boss you but you get to pick the relationship you have you don't get to pick your your peers you don't get to pick your You get your team. Hey, can you pick them? Yes, you can quit your job. Can you hire the right people? Yes, you can. But look, what you got is what you got. You got to work with it. You don't everyone, man, I wish everyone is more fired up like I am like that. That's not gonna go well. It's great that you wish that. That's not gonna go well. What you have to do is you gotta you got a you got to you got to here's another one. This is similar, right? Millennials. Well, hey, one of the things that what are the things this is this is a you got to do this is a a very simple you know I've done the millennium questions a thousand times and you know the Vietnam veterans the Vietnam draftees compared to the like hey we can talk about that again we don't need to but if you've got a if you're in charge of millennials and you think to yourself millennials thinks everything's they think everything centers around them well what do you do as a leader you know what I do as a leader I make everything

centered around them and they perform and then they get after it and as they grow up they learn that everything doesn't center around them but I bring them there why Because I form a relationship why because I listen to him why because I understand them So you don't get the team that you want you don't get the boss that you want what you do is you play the game up and down the chain of command and form relationships up and down the chain of command that you want What relationships do you want from up the chain of command you want them to listen to you you want them to give you what you need to you want them to get out of your way and let you do the mission What about down the chain of command you want them to support what's happening you want them to support what's happening you want them to To get after their job. You want them to step up and lead. That's what you want. Mm-hmm. If you have an antagonistic relationship because your millennials think everything's about them

Well, then guess what you're not gonna be able to have any influence on them any real influence you can have the imposed will on them Mm-hmm, but the imposed will is a is a paper tiger, right? It's not real It only lasts when you're there and guess what they're doing they're looking for another job So take ownership of being offensive and be less offensive and more covert and you know what bro? Young warehouse manager keep getting after it and it will pay off and the fact that you're Fired up and you're crushing it crush it with a little bit more tact and you're gonna one day you're gonna be making it happen Yeah we got time for uh one more question yeah to add though a little tip I think that I think that I think you taught this to actually I realized this one I embraced extreme ownership you can't say

hey I'm gonna take extreme ownership of this like it's it's one of those things it's like just like taking the high ground right you get in like a thing with somebody yeah you can't say I'm gonna take the high ground and then it doesn't work like that like it just gave up the high ground when you announced that you were taking the high ground gave it up exactly right same thing with extreme ownership like in this situation so if you're a very good point echo and the thing is I get it man when you're like you know I'm taking and he even said I take oh of anything and everything that goes wrong anything like straight up he's your guy

Right so it might indicate I'm not saying he's doing this but he could be going hey guys No worries I'm taking extreme ownership of this situation you know like if you say that kind of stuff Yeah, I could see that would rub somebody what's odd and this is a very good thing to understand about human nature Everyone's jealous of you everyone's jealous of each other everyone's jealous of everyone else No one wants you to win right? It's just like so when this guy is stepping up the crowd starts to pick at him they start to pick at them and they want to pick that's generally what the crowd wants to do to you When you step up when you elevate yourself generally the crowd wants to pick at you and pull you down Does he think he yeah exactly exactly so if you're aware of that then you can combat it by when instead of

Elevating yourself in a overt manner where everyone can see you saying I'm gonna take ownership this right now and get it solved No you see back and say hey you know what this is probably my fault do you do you want me to let me let me try and take some time and get it fixed Everyone goes they're actually kind of happy they're like yeah it was your fault They kind of they're kind of like it's okay with them Whereas opposed to I'm gonna take ownership there's this is dichotomy leadership You read extreme ownership awesome you got to read dichotomy too When something goes wrong I freeze up opposite of the other guy freeze up I get stagnant I don't want to move I just ask myself why me I've tried saying good but it's not getting me moving forward any advice you ask yourself why me so saying good that should fix your attitude but that alone that will that alone will not fix your problems if you're

having problems sure say good that's perfect but then don't ask yourself why me instead ask yourself now what am I going to do about it what are you going to do about ask yourself that question and then figure it out figure out what you're going to do say to yourself I am going to detach I am going to assess the situation I am going to come up with a plan and I am going to execute and then start moving It's it's not going to be a perfect plan but take action action that moved you in a positive direction and if it ends up being the wrong direction That's fine at least you've learned where not to go now Where this gets tough is if it is

Something that seems like it's completely out of your control. And you know what? Some things are completely out of your control, and that's fine. And when that happens, you ask yourself, what can I control? What can I control that will make this situation a little bit better? You go crushed by things going wrong. Ask yourself, what am I going? to do and then go do it and I think that's all I've got for tonight so echo Charles

speaking of moving in the right direction yes I know you've got some things that can help us move in the right direction what do you got for us yeah okay so do Jiu Jitsu that's it's that one so so the path has what many directions but it's all in the the same general direction. It's improvement. It's improvement. There's different roads on the path. Yes.

Which is a really weird thing to say. Yeah. It's more of a general thing. Anyway, but Jiu-Jitsu is universal in my opinion. I'm assuming in your opinion too were if you're not doing Jiu-Jitsu, more so than I would say like, that's terrible. I'm not going to say that. But I'm saying if you go through life and not do Jiu-Jitsu and you're on the path,

you might be left maybe missing out. You know what's really cool about this podcast? Yes. And about people listening this podcast and about people starting Jiu-Jitsu. This is the coolest thing. Two years ago, I would have been like, hey, you know, you should try J-Jitsu. It's really good.

But I couldn't, like, confirm how universal. So many people, I just, so many people after they take their first class or the first nine classes or their first three classes, They're like I'm addicted. Yeah. Why is that? Because there's something special about Jiu-Jitsu.

So you should train it. Yeah. Yeah. When you can draw the parallels, the meta. It's the metaphor for life. Literally, Dean Lister told me that early on actually. Oh, interesting. Dean Lister.

Philosopher. It is. And And And Jundra Valle illustrated some points. And a big one that Ander Gavile said that I will never forget. It's like, Jiu-Jitsu is like is life. So consider Jiu-Jitsu. Like if you turn your back on your problems in Jiu-Jitsu. They're going to get worse.

Let's face it, that's in, especially early on, that's how you get a guy to turn. That's how you get a choke, right? When you're mounted on somebody, you slap him in the face. Why? If you get slapped in the face, what do you want to do? Turn your back, right? Like, oh, don't slap my face. That's how you get the choke.

So, under Godvaal said in judithu, you turn your back and you give your back to your opponent. That's the worst thing you can do. But it's hard to face them usually. You got to work, you know? Same thing in life, man. Turn you back on your problems. Those problems are going to get you. Yeah.

And you've heard me say that at the muster. Yes, sir. your back on your problems they don't go away they actually get worse and it's the same exact thing in jiu jiu jiu jose you yes getting bigger so it's cool now to get feedback from thousands of people that have now gotten in the jiu jitsu game and the feedback I've got probably I think three people out of many many and this isn't one of years where you say like a lot of people and it's like four I'm talking thousands of people I've gotten three that don't like jiu-jitsu that does they just don't like it

yeah and that's why I came up with the rule okay if you don't like it that's fine train at least until you've submitted someone that's kind of equivalent and then you can stop yeah and the reason I think I think that's actually once you do that you'll you'll understand you because sometimes you just don't even understand it yeah sometimes people just can't comprehend it they can't comprehend what's happening and it's just too much yeah I get this too much yeah And so they don't want to do it. Yeah.

But if you do it long enough that you submit someone, then you get that little like wow the power It's incredible like at the muster when you when you show the connection of two moves Yeah, it's like it's like amazing. Oh, yeah, and then when you try to explain that every move is connected that way Because that's a big So network of connections, but but people don't understand that Jiu-jitsu is not just moves. Yeah, and That it's all this grouped thing together, this symphony of movement. Language, that was good. Yeah, that's your one's the same language.

Anyway, when you do it, you're going to need a ghee because you're going to do ghee and no ghee. So, ghee and Rashgard. That's the uniform. We'll call it a uniform. Sure. So you go to origin because you're going to get an origin ghee. It's the best one.

Origin main.com. So much we forget to say that, which is not good. I feel like I forget to say that the name is origin. I say origin main. Oh, okay. So cool, but you'll, yeah, you'll come to realize that it's very obvious that origin is the only kind of key that you'll want slash need. On Maine America, by the way, the threads are made of America. You throw that out there just like, oh, by the way, like it's Maine America.

No, it's not just something you throw out there. It's a big deal. We're talking about a loom. Multiple looms, actually. I actually had this. So I was talking to, is actually my literary agent. And I was like, well, you know, I said it turns out, you know, they're not, they can't put out Mikey and the Dragons before November. So I'm just going to, you know, make this book myself.

I'm starting a publishing company. Yeah. And she's like, well, you know, a lot of people try that. But, you know, there's a lot more to it. You know, it's really hard. Yeah. And I was like, okay, cool. Do you know what a loom is?

I go, my friends up in Maine brought a loom back from the grave and weave. and weave material from cotton and nylon to sew together the loom weighs 9,000 pounds the loom weighs 9,000 pounds that has 5 million threads

in going into it it's got millions of parts inside of it it was rusted you're gonna tell me we can't get photocopy some stuff and put it out in a book

I got this I got this don't and it's funny because I told that to Brian and Pete I was laughing so hard because really what's What I don't even know if I could think of something harder

Than saying oh, we're gonna drag a loom out of a damn Abandoned factory in Lewiston, Maine Yeah, one loom left the rest of them have been sent overseas during the economic downturn Oh, we'll just we'll just outsource not remind outsource. We're just gonna send our bread and butter our American hardware Overseas and let someone else make it. There was one loom left and guess what? We got it Origin, but yeah So you're telling me that we can take this old loom that's 30 years old that hasn't been run that's rusted and Dirty and abandoned and bring that thing back to life

You're telling me we can't print some books and get them out to my people you're wrong Watch me straight up wrong get some jocco publishing Yep and that loom does not only make geese and rash cards by the way multiple looms by the way It wasn't just that one loom they know it was one loom Oh, to be in with, yes. And now there's three looms. Rock and and rolling. Yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah, you can get shirts and joggers and sweats. Swets, uh, uh, named, named. I don't know about named. We'll say named the most comfortable sweat and sweats in the world. Straight up. The joggers I proclaim straight up most comfortable fancy world. Nonetheless, find out for yourself.

Anyway, origin, maiden.com. They make a lot of cool, good stuff. All Made in America, by the way. Yeah. And that includes made, America supplements jaco supplements jocko supplements you know the jaco thing is just a complete a lack of originality that's what it is yeah because you think about it from a broader perspective and you know me well enough to be like the last thing I would do is

like oh I'm just gonna call everything jaco it's like bizarre oh it's like bazaar oh it started with jaco podcast you're right with jocco podcast and that I've said this before but I was on Tim Ferriss's podcast and he was he said like are you hungry and I was like jaco hungry and for some reason that just made me chuckle and then when we were naming this podcast I was like well you're like what are you can call him like jaco podcast as if it's the same Neanderthal thing and so then then it was like okay we're gonna make tea well what do you call pomegranate white tea what do we call it like the Vedic solution I mean what are you gonna call it like it's like okay well just it's gonna be the tea

that I drink so it's just called jaco white tea okay cool well then hey when I when I when I started saying you know what I need to make some good supplements Pete and Brian in the game like I'm like hey go you make this and they're like yeah and I said okay well then what are we going to call it well just call it you know chocolate chocolate chocolate and there you go so that's how we end up with the least creative name of any products that have existed I apologize to everyone actually it seemed like well early on anyway it seemed like it wasn't creative because you're like hey this create like if I create this super creative name like is that important really right now I'm too busy making it good kind of thing we talked about in the last podcast that sometimes I'm so into functionality yeah that I'm not in in synchronicity with the rest of the world sometimes for instance if you allowed me to design a house No human being would live in the house except for me and like three other seals that I know that would be like oh yeah This house is perfect man

Everyone else be like bro. What is wrong with you and I so you you know you have to keep that same with vehicles like if I could design my own vehicle No one would want to drive it but me Maybe that's but that one might be a little bit broader because you get people that'd be like year So I have to be careful because sometimes I'm just so into function That it just doesn't make sense to anyone else but me. Yeah, but it does have its value big time when it comes to these supplements because what? Joint warfare function. Try lose function of your joint.

See what happens. Same thing with cruel oil. Same thing with discipline, brain function. And then of course, Moch, that's muscle function. Muscle building function, recovery. Yeah. Look, all of them together. Brain function, joint function, muscle function.

Boom, you're good to go. Yeah. Yeah. And speaking of functionality, and this is one of the things where, You kind of attacked me You attacked me because for you in my see this is this is a perfect example in your mind I'm all about function right yes then when I started making supplements I wanted them to taste good yes and that was actually

It was actually side by side with functionality is taste why is that because if you If it doesn't taste good then it's not gonna function because you're not gonna use it Yeah so these taste Dlish especially Mulk let's face the facts there's this is a whole new thing. Yeah, it's a it's literally a new thing in the world we had to create I created a name for it Mulk why did I create that name what else you're gonna call it doesn't make sense to call it anything else because it's not anything else right it just is Mulk that's what it is Yeah now. Okay, I got four kids. We know I have four kids. I spend time with kids. I see kids all time. We got kids jihitschits programs at my gym What do kids need kids need fuel what do kids get fed they get fed crap why because there's there's sugar and everything There's high fructose currants or corn syrup and everything there's it's just garbage

So with my own kids what do I want to feed him? I want to feed him something that's good We made warrior kid milk why? Because kids need good food eat we're we're putting kids on the warrior path I get letters every single day from kids all over the world New Zealand Australia Europe America for sure kids that are seven years old that are nine years old that are 11 years old that are 14 years old and they're on the path they're doing pull-ups they're doing jiu-jitsu they're sending pictures of their jiu jitzu they're drawing pictures of their metal that they got for jiu jitsu there's kids that are on the warrior kid path what are they eating are they eating junk sometimes they're eating junk not because they want to but that's because what's that's what's

in their fridge So had to solve that problem So we made warrior kid milk again. What was Equivalent to functionality the function was they need protein they need vitamins. They need probiotics functional Part side by side with that had to taste good Had to taste good and what do we end up with? War your kid milk chocolate and strawberry It's freaking delicious Both of them. They're so good and

They're so tasty. It's ridiculous. So that's Warrior Kid Mulk. That's available from origin, main.com. We're going to try and get that one out to the masses. Every kid needs Warrior Kid Mulk. Instead of drinking some sugar-full crap of fillers, we're going to give you real food going to make you stronger.

Or soda. Yeah, oh, man. Bro, I used to, we never had soda growing up in my house, but I used to go to my friend's house. Name is Eric Masters. He's a pilot for the Air Force, by the way. So I'd go to his house and they'd have, so he wasn't pounding soda all the time. He's a superior athlete, all this is this guy.

But they had soda kind of above the thing. Wait, so when I was a kid, we didn't even relate. Like, soda wasn't bad for you. We just were like, oh, this is just how. Like, oh, I'm thirsty. I'm going to drink a Coke. Yeah. And me and Tony, Friday used to joke about that.

Like, when you were a kid, like, oh, I haven't drinking anything all day. I'm really thirsty. Give me a Coke. Yeah. You just drink it. Exactly right. That's the point you know that there was 36 grams of corn syrup in there yeah it's a yeah Good job thinking back I'm like dang that is a crazy violation crazy what could you

Imagine like a and you only weighed 48 pounds yeah this wasn't like it wasn't like It wasn't like you're a 225 pound grown man like I am right now I can probably put down a coke and it wouldn't But you're you're nine years old here get some of that wrong some grape crush Yeah so anyways I Cut you off into mr. Masters no yeah, but no that was that that's the point where you go It's just that's just how oh yeah grab a soda after school Whatever they'd sell sodas for 50 cents after our school you go in the thing you buy the soda whatever soda What if it was mokto?

Way better way better because it tastes just as good if actually tastes better than soda Tastes better yeah, it's like a sure yeah undeniable yeah and you're yeah, that'd be just be way better So there you go warrior kid mulk Mulk for the adults and then the other funny thing was I had all the people send in pictures of their kids drinking Before we had warrior kid milk kids were just straight up going down the milk train themselves Little kids two years old three years old four years old Yeah, little kids drinking milk. Oh yeah, I got the warrior kid milk a little less protein Tasty as can be vitamins

Probiotics Yeah, good to go the way to go 100% Yeah totally good to go You're gonna change the world with that one Make it strong again. Also, if you want to represent, we got some shirts for you, go to jocco store.com. That's where you can get. Discipline equals freedom.

A shirt with Jocco's head on it that I made with the word good. You can also get a shirt with Echo's head on it. That Jocko made. Yeah. Which have been now captured in the wild people representing. Yes. With those. That made me feel really, really good.

Really? Oh, so you kind of got off on that. That was like really cool. We're like, oh, I got fans. No, it was, I, of course, well, there's that. Put it this way. For someone to represent that hardcore, to wear that shirt, because it's a cool design.

I like it. And then, you know, for them, everyone seemed really happy. That was a little subliminal compliment in my direction because I designed it. Yeah, everyone seemed real happy with them, saying the whole group. Yeah. You know.

There's some layers on that shirt. Yeah, massive, multiple layers. Yeah. Nonetheless, some cool stuff on there. We got some hoodies on there. Yeah, if you want to represent go to jockelstore.com some good stuff on there for everybody by the way Yeah, and also subscribe to the podcast this podcast for sure iTunes wherever you get podcast you know that also the warrior kid podcast

Take a listen to it all ages take a listen to it definitely kids Dave Burke he's saying he just got that the warrior kid podcast on repeat For his kids dude dude yeah good deal Dave But he's got the he's got the warrior kid podcast on repeat for his kids I talked to so many people when we're at roll call muster they're like yeah we're we're going we just got it 24 7 kids in the car we'll listen to warrior kid podcast the lessons that you want to teach your kid that your kid doesn't really want to hear from you because you're their mom you're their dad they don't want to hear it from

uncle Jake yeah they want to hear it from uncle Jake and I would go so far as to say don't even one of the you know you said you can't just say oh we to take extreme ownership of that what you can't do with your kids is turn around when you're in the car and say you see uncle Jake saying the same thing i told you yeah yeah don't do that don't don't don't discredit uncle Jake and you're not really discrediting him but what you're doing is you're bringing you're you're forming a team right yeah you're forming a team it's us against you and when uncle Jake's talking the kid they're on the same team yeah uncle Jake is in the game with the kids the kids you have a natural

friction with your parents If you take Uncle Jake's side strongly Now you're on Uncle Janow it's you against your kids against you don't want that You should almost play reverse psychology Yeah and be like well you know it's a little extreme for Uncle Jake to want to work out that much And your kid be like well I think we should probably listen to Uncle Jake dad

Yeah yeah maybe maybe we should get a pull up bar Yeah by the way get a pull up bar for your kids Just get a pull up bar for him It doesn't cost much Cost 12 bucks you just need a piece of pipe Yeah, and you just put it hang it somewhere for your kids they can do pull-ups pull-ups are important for children Yeah straight up There's some fact about no kid that can do a pull-up is obese in the whole world

You can't be obese and do a pull-up as a kid Think it's good so let's do some pull-ups Do you yeah, yeah, I feel like a good way too for the don't don't be like I'm gonna put this on in you're gonna listen Oh yeah don't do that like it yeah, yeah, I feel like it yeah, yeah, I feel like a good way too for the don't be like it yeah You want the kids you want it's like when you go through military boot camp The drill instructors are real mean because they want you to form a gang against them. That's part of the psychologists They want it to be us against them so we form up into a platoon and we're against this guy and then in the end it all comes together It's the same thing we're going here. We you don't you want to let Uncle Jake be part of their team

And you just man A lot of this stuff Uncle Jake says man He seems like a pretty intense guy Mm-hmm, oh and actually Uncle Jake isn't that intense on the warrior kid podcast? No He's telling stories about being a kid Yeah, he's answering questions about being a kid Yeah, podcast is soft or not softer, but like he's not as it he's more intense in the book for sure He's more intense in the book yeah, yeah, yeah, waking up yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah, there you go also

The also get you a warrior kid soap which Irish Oaks rants aiden's up there making soap on his farm so that you can stay clean 13 year old businessman getting after it YouTube we are stepping up YouTube videos confirmed confirmed confirmed you may have seen some of them a little shorter a little bit more tight yeah right and tight yeah we like that so go to YouTube subscribe to that and you can see echoes legit longer videos too has skills this is a known fact psychological warfare little album with tracks to help you get through those moments of weakness There's a new one being made we're working on it if you got any recommendations or any suggestions or anything you need from psychological warfare

Some moment of weakness that you have We got a request for shopping an impulsive shopper we're gonna put a damper on that straight up You shut that down curve that other things smoking We're gonna shut that down yeah so If you got any suggestions for that, then you can make that happen. That's available anywhere you can buy MP3s. Yeah, very helpful. 100% success rate.

Also, speaking of moments of weakness, like if you don't want to go to the gym, get stuff, gym stuff, workout equipment for your house. This is where you get them on it.com. Get kettlebells, rings, battle ropes. You can get a mace in a club. Do that. Bro, you get a good workout. Anyway, it makes it way easier to stay on the path, one, because let's face it. Face it, driving to the gym is not that cool.

And if you're feeling lazy or your time is pressuring, like time constraints, but just stay home, get a workout, hard one too. That's where I get mine from. You know, yeah, on it.com slash jaco. That's a spot to go, 100%. Also, Jocko white tea. That sounds like almost like it was going to have some music kicking. Joko White T, dune, dune, d'un, d'o.

Well, there's a decad of me in that, too. sure it tastes good we know that it's tasting good as part of the functionality I get in but like white tea kind of sounds kind of light and like dainty oh I see what I'm saying and then you it's not like black coffee you know and they get no no no no black coffee get some I was telling life I've never had a sip of coffee in my whole life I thought you said you didn't like the taste okay well I should have clarified that you don't like the smell I didn't even like the smell so I didn't even put it to my lips. All right. Hey man, fair enough. I dig it.

Jocko white tea, my wife's mom, a Brit. Sure. Like my wife's a Brit. My wife's mom is even more British, right? Because she's old school Brit. Guess what she drinks? Because you know British people, they don't even play around with tea. They don't even play around with tea. That's part of the deal. Part of the life. Guess what kind of tea she drinks? Jocker white. Yeah, boy. So obviously she does... Now we're sending shipments of Jocka White Tea to England.

So she bruises it hot. The damn world global home of tea. Yeah. We're having to ship it. But your thing was always the cold, the iced tea. No, I have the warm tea. So you... I mean, as far as like before you made Jocka white tea,

I'd always see you drinking the cold one. Most of the time. Most of the time I prefer cold, because most of the time I'm in a situation where I am Hot and I need to cool down. Yes. Sometimes I'm in a situation where I'm cool and I need to warm up when I want to sell them. Yeah, when you're cold, you want to be cozy No, you know, I didn't say that with a nice thing better back off

But I'm saying Brits they don't dig the cold iced tea. That's why. Well, you know what's nice is like before you have to talk a lot? Sure, you can drink white tea for the throat Just like relax the throat and yet at the same time you're getting a little caffeine hitter Yeah. Getting a little caffeine hitter with some antioxidants. And not to mention if there's any vehicles you need to pick up, you got an 8,000 pound deadlift, so you're good to go, guaranteed. Whatever you need. Yeah, it's good.

I saw Theo Vaughn the other day, and he posted something on Instagram. He had a Chick-fil-A hitter. So those of you that are wondering about my hitter reference, yes, Theo Vaughan, thank you. You have brought that word into my vocabulary, and I had a little jocco white tea. hitter I also have been using the term to describe one scoop of milk Just that's just a one is a one scoop hitter Good because because two scoops legitimately fills you up you don't want to eat a meal Yeah, no you don't want it or you you ate like a little decent meal, but you still want something a dessert

Two two scoops in you're just that's too much too much you have that little one scoop hitter Easy money and you're good to go good to go and if you try the strawberry gets milk Strawberry Kids' milk is ridiculously tasty. Yeah, you're on to something on that one for sure. Check. And some books, I think, right? Got some books. I got quite a few books, actually.

Way the Warrior Kid, Mark's Mission, already talked about that a little bit. You want your kids on the path doing pull-ups, studying, memorizing, getting smarter, getting better. This is not, this is not, hey, I think this will happen. This is at this point same thing I know this will happen I know this will happen Your kids will want a pull-up bar Your kids will want to do jiu jit-sue

Your kids will want to study for school Study for school what kid wants to study for school Warrior kids Yeah Warrior kid the first book is called Way the Warrior Kid The second book is called Mark's Mission Learn about life Next book

Discipline equals Freedom Field Manual I forgot to say this recently If you want the audio version of that It's on iTunes, MP3s, whatever, Amazon, play, Google, music, whatever. It's on all those. And that will, that's where you get the audio version. I recommend the book is not normal.

It's not a normal book. So get that book. Read a page a day. Read a page a day for a year. See what that does to your life. I'm going to, I'll make an assessment. Your life will get better. Is that a bold statement?

Maybe. But let me tell you give it a try. Give it a try extreme ownership Interestingly extreme ownership number five on the Wall Street Journal Bestseller list it was a number one New York Times bestseller that list rotates or whatever Wall Street Journal number five on that number 13 on Amazon most read books of all books on Amazon There's millions of books on the world It's number 13. We got so extreme ownership leadership book experiences from combat applied to your business and your life today the follow-up to that book that Icodomy leadership also a New York Times bestseller number 19 on Amazon of all books read that's crazy number one Wall Street Journal bestseller in business right now Why is this?

Because of you all supporting. So thank you for supporting those books and the feedback has been awesome on both books and definitely appreciate that feedback and then coming soon. Mikey and the Dragons it's coming out on Jocko publishing like I said if we can make looms if we can make looms if we We can weave material. We can print some books. And that's what we're doing. It means it's us against the big dogs, against the big publishing companies.

So need a little bit of get some for this one. Gonna try and crush him. Why? Because that's what we do over here. Hey, story of a little boy that's scared of everything. And learns through the reading of a story inside that story of how another little boy, a little prince, overcomes his fears. how to face his dragons because of course

We all have dragons to fight Miking the dragons. It's available for pre-order right now on Amazon comes out middle of November Eschon Front Leadership Consultancy We will help your team solve whatever problems that they have Through leadership no matter what that problem is it's a leadership problem It's me Laf Babin JP Dale Dave Burke Flynn Cochran Mike Sorelli and Mike Bahama email us info at echelonfront.com or check out the website if you need that kind of help at your business I already talked about the muster it's been sold out the next musters 0708

We're looking at Denver and Chicago so you're on notice to set that up and of course EF overwatch connecting a special operation leaders and combat aviation leaders experienced leaders tested leaders combat proven leaders with companies in the civilian sector that need experienced proven leaders go to eFoverwatch.com to get in that game and if you want to roll with us virtually you can find us on the inner webs on Twitter on Instagram And on badge, fish, yeah, Echo is at Echo Charles, and I am at Jocko Willink.

And thanks to everyone for listening, especially our military, police, law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, border patrol, correctional officers, and all first responders. Thanks for making this podcast and our way of life possible by keeping us safe. from evil and misfortune of the world and to every one else when you face those hardships and challenges that are coming your way and they are coming your way don't get pushed back on your heels don't ask yourself why me ask yourself what am i going to do about it and then go get after it until next time this is echo And Jocko. Out.