Jocko Podcast - 151: How to Really Implement Change. Different Leadership Styles. Balancing Discipline. Different Jiu Jitsu Styles.

Episode Date: November 14, 2018

0:00:00 - Opening. The decisions we make matter. 0:20:13 - Is it better to work a mindless job and make good money?  Or a fulfilling job for less money? 0:32:15 - How to establish and implement Standard operating procedures. 0:35:20 - Balancing THE GRIND and LIFE. 0:47:28 - Too much discipline.  Is that possible?  How? 0:56:15 - What's the best Jiu Jitsu Style/Game? 1:02:34 - Different Leadership styles.  Effective and ineffective.  1:13:37 - Making the most of life after massive failure or mistakes. 1:19:48 - How to get the team "on board" when they are massively resistant and defensive.  1:26:58 - How to actually implement change when you know it is needed.  1:30:26 - Mikey and the Dragons book. 1:36:05 - How to stay on the PATH. 2:06:21 - Closing Gratitude.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 151 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. And we haven't done a Q&A for a while and we're going to roll into a Q&A. And normally, quite frankly, normally the Q&A is when we show up for the Q&A's, there's a little bit of a different atmosphere, we'll say, right? Sure. A little bit of levity in the room.

Everything's like, you know, hey, we're... We're not going to talk about war. We're not going to be reading about men being wounded or killed. We're not going to be reading about some atrocity and hearing what people go through. We're going to be answering questions and there's a little bit more just lightheartedness to the whole thing, usually. Sometimes it goes a little bit, you know, one way or the other. But this is, there's just a little bit of a different situation in the recording room right now because we just did a, and this is kind of surprising. because we just did a warrior kid podcast and in the warrior kid podcast I answer questions from kids

for uncle Jake and those are all you know kind of just little neat little kid questions hey are cheese burgers good for you and what do I do and I'm nervous at a jihisi tournament and what do I do and I can't remember how to spell Mississippi you know just like these nice little kid questions and they're fun and yet you know I treat him seriously because kids have serious questions and when you're a little kid those are real problems Those aren't we laugh at him now. You're laughing at them No, well the Mississippi one right you're over there laughing at the kids issues But then what I started doing a little while ago is I started telling these stories

From the perspective of Uncle Jake when Uncle Jake was a kid And some of those are a little bit more they're a little bit more serious, but there's always a very big lesson to be learned because my goal with the stories from Uncle Jake is that kids can end up understanding how Uncle Jake kind of formulated his values as a man. And we've talked about a bunch of different ones of those. But anyways, the one that I did today. And what's interesting is all these stories are kind of based on, they're based loosely around things that I've experienced. And this is very, some of them very loosely, some of them not so loose on things that I've

actually experienced things that I went through. Because I'm not Uncle Jake, but I have some similar experiences that Uncle Jake has had along the way And anyways, today, I wanted to make the point to kids that the decisions that they make in their life are they have a big impact, right? And if you make little decisions when you're a kid, you start making bad decisions when you're a little kid Those bad decisions eventually add up and if you make good decisions those decisions will add up and you'll in the one case you'll end up with good things if you make good decisions If you make bad decisions, you'll end up in a bad situation. And I told this story from Uncle Jake's perspective about Uncle Jake's best friend when he was growing up. And it was a kid named Jeff.

And they were best friends. They did everything together. And they played and they did practical jokes. And they laughed and had a great time. And eventually, Jeff starts making some bad decisions. He gets in trouble in class and he gets in more trouble. Then he gets suspended from recess. And then the next thing, you know, he starts really going down a bad path.

and starts using drugs and alcohol and eventually and again I this is a long this is not a long story but it probably takes about 10 minutes to tell on the podcast on the warrior kid podcast and then eventually I leave high school we graduate from high school and I kind of talk about seeing him and and this is what's true like so this is true so this is based on true story I had a best friend when I was a kid his name was Jeff he was an awesome kid he was funny and what he's one of those kids I've talked about this before like some of kids they have a little spark to them and it's not a lot is very few kids they have this little spark they've got this little thing about them that you go okay that person has something now that spark doesn't guarantee anything in fact that spark can be a problem because it that spark can catch fire and it can be an uncontrollable fire or it can be a fire that can be used to fuel and grow and create awesome things and you don't really know it certainly can't really control it that person has to have control of that spark well Jeff was one of those kids that had like this spark to him he

was charismatic he was funny he was smart he was witty he was courageous but he just for whatever reason had like a little spin to him that didn't mind getting in trouble it's almost like an attitude like hey these guys can't hold me down and so you know when we were in fifth grade it was actually in fifth grade where we sat next to each other every day and we would start you know we we would just Hang out all the time and laugh and eventually He started getting in trouble and I didn't right and I would get in some trouble But he would cross the line and he crossed the line to where all of a sudden you know he would get It sent to the principal's office and be that kind of trouble one level above the kind of trouble I would get in which is like hey

Get yelled that you got to be quiet. Hey, you know you go sit in the corner of those things I got but I didn't cross the line Which is hey I'm not I'm out of control in the class I'm So disruptive that you got to get me out of class. I never crossed that line. He started crossing that line and Eventually, you know like a and I told him the story, you know, he started using drugs and alcohol and I thought about it. Do I want to put talk about drugs and alcohol in the warrior kid podcast? And then I thought to myself, yes, I do because if you don't think kids hear about drugs and alcohol right now when they're seven years old eight years old nine years old you're wrong. Drugs are out there. It's a different world and you might as well tell them when they're young that the These things are problematic. Well with Jeff, you know, Jeff went down the path of starting to, you know, smoke and drink and and all that stuff doing drugs. And I didn't.

I, you know, he started getting into that kind of thing. I started getting into like hardcore music and being like disciplined and all that stuff, which, again, I call it what you want, call it a trend, call it me conforming to something or whatever you want to call it. But that's what I did. That's what I got into. I related to it. Let me put it you that way.

So eventually, Jeff. Becomes like a burnout. You know what I mean? He becomes Yeah, like a burnout. You know, he's cut classes and he you know Just kind of went down that spiral and the weird thing is we were such good friends when we were kids that we didn't not like each other anymore You know I didn't like have a falling out with him. We just we just went our separate ways and so when I would see him In school or I'd seen him in the hallway or I'd see him in town You know we would talk and And you could see I could see in his eyes like in his eyes like he knew he was going in the wrong direction

And we would still laugh and we would still have a good time we would joke about things and then We'd we'd walk away from each other and he'd keep kept going down the path he was going down and I kept going down the Path I was going on and as time went by You know he just was a complete burnout if I don't even remember if he graduated high school or not I graduated high school and I joined the Navy and you know I was a complete burnout I thought I don't even remember if he graduated high school and I joined the Navy and And you know I was gonna go try and be a seal that was my big big goal right and he was gonna do whatever he was gonna do And the last time I saw him Again like I remember I saw him and it was like in my mind and I wasn't quite mature enough to really recognize what I

What I what I saw right at the time But as I look back on it was like there was like this element of sadness for him Seeing that I was I was like for lack of a better word like getting away right I was gonna go I was gonna go do something right and he was gonna not and you could see that and at this point like I don't even know if he could have gotten the military he'd been on quite a bit of trouble and had used a lot of drugs and I don't even know if he

could have gotten in the military at this point so and and and but when we were little kids mind you we were running around playing BB gun wars and you know setting up forts and run around in camouflage outfits you know that's what we were doing So it's like I was going to do that for real and he was gonna keep doing what he was doing Which was not good stuff and so when I saw him for the for the last time You know like we shook hands and again like I could see in his eyes this this this element of sadness That He was doing what he his life had gone in this direction and my life had gone in this other direction and he was I don't even want to use the term jealous because I don't think he was jealous

He wasn't jealous at all he was absolutely he was actually like Like kind of proud you could see in his eyes like man that's awesome And he said like good luck you know and we shook hands and bro hugged and then I then I just you know I left I joined the Navy and went to boot camp and and I remember I was in seal training And I was probably a month or two into seal training and I talked to my mom and She told me that this guy this guy Jeff who'd been my best friends from probably first grade through like fifth grade and And then, like I said, it's separated, but he killed himself. And 19 years old, he killed himself. And so in the story that Uncle Jake tells, I don't tell that,

I don't talk about suicide, but I just say that he died. And he died from drugs and alcohol, which indirectly is true. You know, that's what killed him, is that he was doing drugs and drinking and he wasn't making clear decisions and went down that path of depression and ended up killing himself. And I remember, you know, I was going through seal training. So I was, you know, definitely shocked and saddened by it. And I had to do work.

And it was one of those things. But as I looked back on it, like these are just little tiny decisions. Like I made a decision, he made a decision. I made a decision. He made a decision. I made a positive decision about something. He made a negative decision. I made a good decision.

He made a bad decision. These aren't huge decisions that I'm talking about. Yeah. But it was these little tiny decisions that added up over time and I think a lot of times kids They don't recognize that they don't recognize that these little I mean sure if you make a one big bad decision You go drinking and driving yep. You're right you can you can kill yourself you can kill someone else You can ruin your whole life and one bad decision But where did that one bad decision came from it came from a bunch of bad decisions it came from hanging around with the bad people

It came with starting to drink in the first place it came with even having the attitude that I can get away with stuff like there's a lot of little bad decisions that led up to this one bad, big, bad decision that actually ends up putting you in a bad way. So that's the story that I just told on the Warrior Kid podcast. And again, I know it's kind of a heavy story. In fact, it's a very heavy story. And that's another thing with, like, as I said to myself, well, should I talk about, should I say that he ended up in jail

or something like that? And I said to myself, no, like, this is the reality. of life and if kids are are not taught the reality of life again you I'm not trying to smack them in the face with it I'm not trying to to make them paranoid you know and that's kind of why I thought the suicide part was a step too far yeah but you know it's like in Mikey and the dragons I talk about how there's dragons that are ready to kill and luckily you know I'm publishing I own the publishing company that's making this book because a lot of my editors probably wouldn't like to hear that.

A normal children's editor doesn't want to hear killing, right? And also in the book, the king dies, right? The king is dead. And he's, there's a funeral for him. And that's another thing, like, well, do you really want to talk about that with little kids? And as I asked myself, that question for the first time,

I answered it in like a millisecond with, there's kids out there whose dad dies when they're five years old whose mom dies when they're seven years old whose grandma dies whose dog dies like death is part of life and to pretend that it doesn't exist and hope that your kids are just gonna one day figure it out that's not the right thing to do they should understand it and so the the last part about this thing about Jeff was you know again he had this spark he was funny and he was just a really good awesome guy

And when I got done, you know what I did? I did like the typical, whatever, 11 o'clock at night sitting at the computer thing when I got done writing this thing. And I just Googled him. I just Googled him and just Googled his name, his full name. And it was the weirdest thing because when I googled him, there was nothing. There was nothing. No, nothing.

Not a name. His name, no obituary, no nothing, just nothing. and that kind of shook me up a little bit and the way it shakes me up is it shakes me up in the fact that that guy had more intelligence than me he had more talent than me he was more charismatic than me he had all these things that were better than me and yet Google which I don't know if you ever Google like because I Google a lot of stuff all the time because I I Google please know people that were in the military I Google old authors poets

people that wrote some random like I'll find online some letter from some Lance corporal in World War II I'll Google that person and guess what that person will there'll be article about him they'll be they'll be his obituary about what he did with his life and that's that's what about his wife and his wife died in nineteen you know sixty eight and she had done and so you can get so much information about just anyone anyone and so I Google my friend Jeff and there's nothing nothing and that's a person that Jeff had he gone down the right path he would have left a giant mark on the world and would have done a lot of positive things

and done beautiful things in the world and to think that it's all gone and it's all lost it's lost and there's not a damn thing about him so teach your kids to make the right decisions is what I'm saying. Yeah. So so much for the, like I said, so much for the levity. Yeah. Of the, of the situation or of the podcast. Yeah.

I mean, yeah, it's crazy how, like, you know, obviously on it. I didn't know, Jeff, but like how you say, you, like, you're talking earlier, how, you know, if you would have made maybe even three, three good decisions, you know, because, like, these. problem like drugs and alcohol and stuff like that as an individual problem that's not the maker or the breaker right there it's like everything put together you know there's people who are successful that may struggle with drugs and alcohol even for a little bit for a long time ongoing like you know yeah you don't have to die you know if you make the decision to do the mistake in my opinion but to do drugs and drink alcohol you know or have that kind of hold you back or whatever you don't have to die from that

It's like everything, you know. And he could have been, potentially, like massively successful. Totally. Just because of decisions. That's the horrible thing about it is you just see the waste of human potential. I guess that, to me, is the horrible thing. And I got these great memories. Like, I got them right now.

I can remember doing things with him. And when you're with someone like that and you're almost like a spectator, To their life like you get to watch him you get to go like wow look at what he's doing this is crazy Wow look at that look how funny he is you get to be a spectator and you appreciate it I did I appreciate it and right now I look back and I think about how funny and you know I think about any random You know stand up comedian or someone on a Saturday Night Live or something like that and it's like yeah, I know he would have been awesome on that show Yeah, he would have been hilarious on that show yeah, but never gonna happen

It's not doesn't exist and Yeah, so so those little decisions that people make and that kids make especially Yeah, you know what's weird too is when you're 19 years old think about think about how much you thought you knew when you were 19 And how much you actually know you knew when you were 19 Yeah, it's it's it's it's a pathetic Yeah, it's it's you know so little when you're 19 yeah you know so little when you're 19 Yeah Man, I feel like you kind of know it.

Well, I don't know. People are different. But, man, even 29, for sure. I feel like I didn't really know. No, I, every five years that you look back, you realize that you didn't know anything five years ago. Yeah, yeah. And maybe someone will chime in and tell me that when you're 72,

you feel pretty good about what you know. But I don't think so. I don't think so. I think it's just always constantly looking back five years and think to yourself. And, you know, what I've said before. I think when you get to be at some point it's some some some decade along there 35 40 you at least say I know I don't know everything and that is like the beginning of Yeah, knowing something because when you're like you like you said when you're 19 you know you know you think you know everything

When you're 23 you think you know everything when you're 26 you know everything when you're 31 you still think you know everything It's not until you actually look up maybe that's 35 maybe that's 37 maybe some people People get it younger where they realize you know what I don't know everything and I need to learn more So there you go in a learning more yeah Q and a people have some questions Let's see if Jocko Mm-hmm as the answers I don't I don't necessarily have the answers No, but I have I will be able to give my assessment sure I will say this and I just got done telling Pete this

Sure yesterday and I probably have told you that before if I ever tell you I know something a hundred percent then it's factually true but I do that so rarely it's very rare that I say hey here's the here's the answer I probably do that I do that very very seldomly if you hear me say that go with it go it's correct you don't barely hear me you probably you may have never heard me say that up until this point not that I can remember yeah I very rarely will say, hey, look, I know this 100%. I used to say it once every, maybe twice every six months.

Like when I was in the SEAL teams, I would, every once in a while, I'd have to say, listen, man, I'm telling you, this is how you want to do this. You, this is how you should do this. I'm telling you. You do it this way. Very seldom. Most of the time I'd say, look, this is what I think you should do, but it's your decision. You can do what you want. All right.

Well. So I will give my assessment. I'll give my best possible and the other thing is these questions are There's not a lot of detail to them often or there's a ton of detail, but even a ton of detail isn't like Let like let me talk. Oh, you got a problem with your boss. I need to meet your boss. I need to talk to him You interact with them every day. I don't. Yeah, so you need to kind of you need to kind of Modulate and and hone the answers to your particular scenario Yeah, so what do you think about this particular scenario? Okay, Jocco. Is it better to work in?

a mindless job and make money or is it better to follow your passion and possibly make less money? Hmm. I definitely think the best thing to do is work at a job that you're passionate about and make a lot of money. That's that's the best thing to do. I do know that one. That's not always possible. And here's something you got to be careful of. If you ever heard people talk about making your hobby, your job, right? And generally that's like, oh, I, if you're not always possible, and If I make my hobby my job, then I'll enjoy my job. Right. There's another way of looking at it.

If you make your hobby your job, you won't like your hobby anymore. That's another way of looking at that. So it depends on what kind of like a jiu-jitsu instructor. Right? Hey, I'll just open my own school and then I'll just get to do what I love all day long. You talk to a lot of jih Tijitsu instructors after six years. They don't even like going to the academy. They don't want to go to the academy anymore because it's all as a lot.

Yeah, I don't want to teach you one other white belt how to do an arm lock. They're over it So it's not necessarily the best thing to make what you're passionate about in and there's some people that teach you to do you to every single day and they love it and that's awesome and so they've they've won right because they're making money they're doing they're having good livelihood and they enjoy doing it So yeah, but my goal would be to do something that I'm passionate about at the same time you've got to set yourself up so that you're not stuck without any money right because passion doesn't pay the rent i'll tell you an example of this Greg train sure years ago Greg train said to me hey here's my options i can like kind of scrape by teach wrestling teach some jiu jitsu and train to fight or i can i got accepted into this program to be an x-ray technician. And he asked me, he's like, what do you, what do you think I should do?

This is a long time ago. It's probably like 10 or 12 years ago, maybe even longer. Anyways, he asked me and I said, listen, how many hours a day do you want to train? And I said, how many hours day can you train? And he's like, I don't know, maybe three or four hours a day, okay. So if you want to do this three or four hours a day and you're not going to make any money, what are you going to do with the other whatever, 20 hours a day? Yeah.

You could actually build a career and make real money doing the X-ray thing. And then you could still easily. Because you work eight hours a day. I was like, I was like Greg. I work 12 hours a day. I work 14 hours a day. I'm still here training. You can work an eight-hour day and still train.

And you can train four hours a day and you can be fine. And you'll have money. You won't have to worry about paying the rent. You won't have to be able to buy, you know, nice things. You'll have medical insurance, all those things. And he made the decision to go to X-ray school. And he ended up doing great in Jiu-Jitsu and doing great in fighting. And he ended up getting some injuries that were like, if he would have just been a fighter,

they would have been really problematic because, you know, he couldn't fight for a long time. So that's the kind of judgment call, right, you can make. Now what this question is saying, though, is can you, Do something where you make a little bit less, but you're passionate about it. That's pretty easy call as far as I'm concerned. If you just make a little bit less, but you love doing it, well, that's kind of a no-brainer. Yeah. Right?

Isn't it? Now, you've got to ask yourself, where does that put you in the future? And then you've got to ask yourself on the other side is, could you do this job that you don't really like for long enough that you could make a difference? Like, you could do this job that you don't really like, and all of a sudden you've got a down payment for a house. And then you go buy a house you see what I'm saying yeah so that's that's not a bad movie A bad move either But you could also this is where people trap themselves They have the job that they don't like they're making a little bit more money and instead of investing towards

Getting out of that job and setting themselves up so where they can do something that they are passionate What they do is they expand their lifestyle Yeah, that's the big mistake. They expand their lifestyle and all of a sudden You know, they're making $100,000 a year at this job that they don't really like. The other job, they were going to get $75,000 a year. And that's not bad, right? I would probably go for the thing that I really like doing. If it's a difference of $25,000, that's kind of a no-brainer to me.

What does the person do? They say, okay, well, I'll just stay in this job so I can make enough money to get a down payment on a house. And then what do they do? They buy a new car. Yeah. They go out to dinner every night. They spend that extra $25,000 that they could be put. into saving up for down payment they spend it on stuff that they don't need to end up with a hundred and ten thousand dollar lifestyle

While they're making a hundred thousand dollars a year and they actually go into debt and now they're further away from the job that they wanted Yeah, so I guess the answer here is and I've said this before come up with an exit strategy with contingencies if things go wrong and then plan save prepare and then execute Yeah Yeah, man. Sounds like a good plan. Good take on it.

That's what it sounds like. I found that when you make your hobby, your career, a lot of times, like when you have fantasies about doing your hobby as a career, let's say I'm a photographer, right? That's a big one. That's a common one that I've heard. They'll be like, okay, because I like taking pictures. I like, you know, I don't know, maybe traveling or, I don't know, whatever.

Whatever I like taking pictures of, I like that kind of subject, too. But so a lot of things when you're, you know, A creative person or you're into Let's say you make baskets You make the awesome baskets But to make it your career A lot of the times it comes with like Yeah 50% if that 100%

Additional chores and tasks By running that business Yeah I was gonna say Yeah you like making baskets Oh yeah cool and what you end up doing Is making thousands of the same baskets They're gonna put their green with the Easter Bunny In it and that's what your job is

to weave that basket over and over again. Everything that you're doing it for is now gone. Yeah, and guess what? You have to do it now. And you have to do it. You have to. Like, as a hobby that's kind of, in my opinion, pretty much the one of the two things that make a hobby so great is because it's fun to do and you do it whenever you want.

As long as you have the time, as long as you do it whenever you want. If you don't feel like, you don't do it. Like if you don't feel like golfing tomorrow, you. Yeah. I don't feel like golfing tomorrow. Are you going to go? No, I'm not. Oh, no.

Yeah, of course not. You don't have to. but if you love making baskets and you don't feel like it and you're like, hey, guess what? You got to make a thousand of those. I know you don't feel like even making one. You got to make a thousand now or make sure they're done or something. Then you're like, man, I used to love this thing.

Now I don't really like it because all this pressure, which had nothing to do with my hobby, by the way. Nothing. Now it has everything to do with my hobby. Now I have people calling me saying, hey, where's my basket? Hey, I'm the basket maker. I say when the basket gets made kind of thing.

That's gone. So yeah, so you don't really like it. And so, yeah, you got the repetitiveness. the like we call lack of control lack of control the pressure and then that's not to mention like the day to day chores that allow your hobby activity to be a business or career or whatever man it's a lot like freaking taxes oh man taxes doing all yeah man you know how like when you're you work at like a job and the taxes are just taken out the taxes are taking out and all this stuff but man you're weaving baskets you know in your in your new garage or whatever man

you got to do taxes all this I don't know man there's just a lot more to it no switch over from hobby to career yeah that's true so that's my my shout out to my tax guy Brandon he rocks so hard he's the best guy ever yeah I can dig it but yeah so there's that and then but yeah if you're prepared for that though if you're totally prepared for that or if you kind of like business you know that part of it because there's a lot of chores in business. And if you like that stuff, oh man, that can be good. But yeah.

Oh, and here's the thing too about when you get a good job, or not a good job, but a high paying job, but you don't like it. This is what I think anyway. I don't think I've ever had a junk job that paid a lot. You just had junk low paying jobs. Yes, yes. I had a few of those, yes, for sure.

So, okay, I wake up, I go to my job, drag myself to my job. Drag myself to my job. And then I can't wait to get home. I get home. I get that paycheck after a week, two weeks or whatever. I get that huge paycheck. And then I got to drag myself to my job again. Then I go home and I can let me really.

So basically your day-to-day for that junk job is so junk. I need something. I need pleasure. I need some kind of pleasure in my life. Let me buy that cool new car. So now, sure, I'll drag myself to my job, but at least I'm rolling in that nice new car. Yeah.

Or. But eventually you trap yourself with that car. That car is a trap. Because that becomes the focus a lot of the times. Yeah. You know, like it. And I believe, so this is an interesting thing I've thought about. People like to make things.

People like to make things. Like it's a good feeling to make something, to create something. And I think a lot of the consumer attitude comes from the fact that, look, I don't have time to go and build a desk. And I wish I did have time to go build a desk, but I'll just go click on this button and the desk will show up my house. And it's kind of like I created something. Walla, there it is. Yeah, voila, there it is. And that gives you that but the thing is it's a it's a short-term gratification

Yeah, that's why it keeps going. Yeah, and that's why it keeps going because you go, okay, I'd really like to make a desk, but I'm just gonna buy this one or I'd really like to you know what I'd love to do is just is just completely refurbished an old car. Oh, I can't do that. But guess what I can I can just buy a new car and then I'm rolling it feels good for a minute, but you don't get the pure you don't get the deep satisfaction that you would have gotten had you refurbished the car. So you get you trap your yourself so keep your spending in check this is another part of this whole deal yeah spending in check but that spending feels so good and then you know like when you it depends because there's sometimes when you don't have a lot of money spending hurts you know it hurts when you're like I can't separate myself from this money yeah and you have you have a different mindset I think but I think like a your average person me included it's like the the spending hurts when you spend spend on stuff you need rather than what you like want you know

I'm saying so backwards saying oh yeah it's so bad time but it's a short-term thing for sure it's like the immediate like satisfaction is like when you got to pay let's say you don't really have dental insurance right or let's say you do but you still got to pay out of whatever you got to spend your money on that yeah say it's $1,000 and you have $1,500 in your bank account we'll say so it doesn't feel good to spend on dental but it would have felt good to buy a new plasma screen TV that you could watch the UFC on think about it Bro, when that plasma TV comes in, you're like, oh my gosh, you can't wait to hook this up. This thing is awesome.

I'll even put it on my credit card and pay for that thing over the next 12 months. Yeah, 50% interest on this thing. I'll do that, no problem because of that pleasure of getting it. But, oh, dental, you mean this toothache will go away? This toothache that's causing me a migraine will go away. And then I got, you know, then when it's time to pay that bill, you're like, it's hard, man. You don't really want it. It's weird.

Yeah, it is backwards. So all right. Well, like I said, come up with a plan come up with an exit strategy with contingencies and then Save your money and execute get some check next question How do you suggest setting SOPs standard operating procedures? Where none currently exist. Yeah, good question and this is a Not gonna spend a ton of time on this well the best way to do develop SOPs is to let them be developed organically Sort of from the people that are actually doing that task whatever it is and you kind of you you just turn what's actually

happening into an SOP and then if there's multiple methods happening for something you kind of consolidate the methods into the best way and then test them and then you'll have your SOP there one thing that you shouldn't do with an SOP is come up with a standard operating procedure inside of a vacuum and then push it down on the folks below you in the chain of command because they're gonna be they're to reject it they are going to they are going to know a better way of doing it because you made it up in a vacuum so so don't do that now there are sometimes where let's say you're going to do something brand new that's never been done before and you have to

kind of create an SOP then if you have to do that you you need to kind of explain to the team hey listen guys we've never done this type of mission before we've never done this type a project before here's my best guess at what a standard operating procedure is going to look like we're going to try and execute this but believe me it's not perfect i'm open to feedback and i realize that it's going to change but i want at least have a line for us to deviate from and actually this is in extreme ownership i talked about how we started organizing the sSE the sensitive slight sensitive site exploitation it's how we searched buildings and it's in the book but when you first Started searching built to me everyone just go in and ransack everything and just throw everything around and it was totally

Ridiculous and ineffective and eventually you know I said okay we need a standard operating procedure in my assistant platoon commander I said hey come up with a standard operating procedure of how we're going to do this he did that And when he did of course and it's in the book people like oh this is gonna take forever and it was like okay listen We're gonna try it if there's some adjustments we got to make we'll make them but let's at least give it a try it and that's what we did And one of the best things you can do if you have to come up with an SOP is not only let it come organically from the task itself, but let the people that are actually doing the task come up with the standard operating procedures.

So if you had some project that you did over and over again, I wouldn't come and say, hey, okay, here's how I want you to do this project from now on, Echo. I'd say, hey, Echo, since you're doing this all the time, can you capture what it is you do? And we can take those best practices, turn them into a standard operating procedure, and get them through the whole organization.

And you'd say, oh, that's cool. You would kind of feel some ownership And then you would put together a good plan. So that's pretty straightforward with standard operating procedures the main thing is Let them develop let the team develop them keep an open mind. Don't force them down people's throat Makes sense Next question. I'm a 17 year old I'm a blue belt and jiu jitsu which I received a few days after my 16th birthday and I have ambitions of pursuing Jiu Jitsu professionally and competitive to the highest level possible.

Of course, this requires discipline and commitment. So during the school term, I train jiu-jitsu Monday through Saturday, and I wait train on Friday and Sunday. And when I have time off school, I train jih Tjitsu three times a day. However, due to my commitment to this and my refusal to prioritize the other things over this, I feel I'm missing out on the social opportunities of this part of my life. I miss parties and social events in order to train jiu-jitsu and wait-train because I know that I should have the discipline to do so. However, I feel lonely and isolated because of it.

Is this just weakness or should I make the occasional exception for a social event? Once again, love the work you do, you and I go do. It's helped me immensely thanks from the UK. All right, the UK. First of all, I just, okay, the hardcore, here's a couple hardcore answers. hardcore answer number what's your schedule like right are you wasting any time have you have you max to maximize the hours you can get out of a day or are you spending time doing other things that you shouldn't be doing that being said it sounds like you're getting after it pretty hard

which means you're probably pretty efficient and if you're if you're not wasting a bunch of time and you're not doing a bunch of things that are nonproductive and you're feeling lonely and isolated, then guess what? You're going too far. You should not be feeling lonely and isolated. That's not good. You need to relax,

especially because if you're training that much, you're likely over-training. So broadly speaking, now, broadly speaking, training should be enjoyable. Okay? This doesn't mean that you're going to love it every day, and I talk about that all the time. This doesn't mean every day you wake up

and you're all, you know, smile from one ear to the other year because you're so happy You got to go do squats and deadlifts like no no that doesn't happen But broadly the way it makes you feel the way Jiu Jitsu makes you feel should make it the other times when you go on the Jitou mat and you get spanked And you get ground out and you get tapped out and you feel like junk yes that's gonna happen But again broadly how does Jiu Jitsu make you feel it makes you feel good you should enjoy it to some extent right and you should not be getting burnt out and I think that's the most important thing is that you shouldn't be getting burnt out on Jiu Jitsu on working out and and this is this is important especially for your 17 years old

there is more to life than Jiu Jitsu and physical fitness right there's more to there's more to there's more to doing well in life than just Jiu Jitsu and physical fitness So a couple things if you can't If you can't like communicate with people effectively that's a real problem in any environment Right and if you're isolating yourself from other people and you're not You're not learning how to interact with other human beings in a social environment That's not good and it's not only it's not only that it's it's not only that it's just not good for you because yes you as a person you need to be well-rounded you need to be yes, you you need to be strong you need to be capable from a fighting perspective but you also need to be

smart you need to be articulate you need to be quick-witted and those things are mandatory skills in life I mean if you're a black belt and jiu-jitsu and you're a white belt in communicating with other human beings that's not going to be a good situation for you and the other thing is the better you are the more well-rounded you are in all these other aspects of life those things will actually make you better at jiu-jitsu too because you'll be able to read people you'll be able to deal with confrontation, you'll be able to understand other people's motivations, and all those things come from interacting with other human beings. So I get it. I get the massive commitment. And that is what it takes. Like if you want to compete at the highest level, I'm telling you, yes, you have to live,

breathe, and eat jiu-jitsu. You have to live, breathe, and eat conditioning. And that being said, if that's all you live, breathe and eat, that's going to make you less. App to be a champion than if you make yourself a little bit more well-rounded in some of these other aspects So dude keep training hard 17 year old blue belt from UK keep training hard Go out occasionally hang out with some people have a good time and that by no means means get hammered every time you do it all Not at all. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that social aspect, man, that's like, that's, it seems like a lot of times,

especially when you're training or you're doing something that's kind of directly or can be viewed as like directly opposite of a social thing. You know, when you think socially, you think, all you guys are just slacking, hanging out, going to the bar, cruising at the beach, whatever. While we're over here training kind of thing, right? Just like people say, oh, you're sleeping on the couch, you know? What are you lazy, sleeping on the couch? Well, I don't know.

Maybe they need rest, you know, or maybe. There's there's use in sleeping. Seems like that was a little, maybe kind of a glimpse into the Echo Charles world right there. Maybe, maybe not. Why do you sleep on the couch? Maybe I need rest. Maybe I'm recovering from the workout.

You see what I'm saying? I'm saying there's two parts of it, you know, there's that. And so, and people give it a bad rap, I think, especially like, you know how like, you know, you hear these, you know, motivational gurus grind, all sleep when I'm dead, you know, that kind of thing. Right. Yeah, I say that. So you said it, not me, but hey, all right. So, and I'm not saying that, you know, that's dumb or nothing like that.

I'm saying that it produces a certain message that can be interpreted in a way that might not be the most beneficial. Well, I'm sure. I think this, just, I'm glad that he asked this question because he's taking the attitude of like, okay, I'm going to sleep when I'm dead. And I'm going to, I'm going to hang out with other human beings after. I'm a world champion. And again, do you need to be possessed to be a world champion? Yes, you do. But all I'm saying is part of the things that will make you be a better well-rounded person.

The more well-rounded you are, the better you're going to perform. You know, you're going to learn how to deal with anxiety. You're going to learn how to deal with people. You're going to learn how to look at someone else's situation, look in their eyes and be like, okay, this guy's stressed out or this guy's panicking or this guy. You know, you learn those things from interacting with the people. That's going to make you a better competitor. You're gonna learn more about yourself. That's gonna make you a better competitor

Yeah, and you're gonna be if you if you relax now what you don't want to do is go so far in the other direction Where you when you show up to a competition you don't feel like you've prepared as much as you could Yeah, but that what does that do you go too far in the other direction now you over trained Yeah, so you got to find a little bit of it sounds like you're a little bit off balance Especially because you're feeling like the words that kind of keyed me off the most in this was what was it? Lonely and isolated that that that's what kind of If you said everything else here and then you are like am I over training? I would have said no man you're getting after it good job

But then when you say look I feel lonely and isolated you don't want to feel lonely and isolated Like and that's another thing when I change jitsu that's kind of where I hang out like I don't interact with people normally It's a social thing we might not even talk we might not even say one word other than do you want a role and then we train that's sort of my social activity of hanging around with other people and I don't feel I leave the gym and I feel like I hung around with a lot of people I didn't say anything to him But if you feel lonely and isolated that's not good That's getting to you that means your mind is starting to be worn down from this don't let it get worn down It's gonna refuel you to go out it's gonna Watch this watch this if you're feeling lonely and isolated your workout that day is like a nine

If you feel like like hey I I'm having a good life. I'm filled with energy. I like hanging out. I just, you know, had a good time with this girl last night. And now I'm going to train. It's like, oh, okay, guess what that's workout?

It's 9.7. You get a better training because you had a good time. So, yeah, I don't like the fact that he says he's lonely and isolated. That's not good. And, again, this is just a dichotomy. Because then you'll get someone that says, okay, well, Jocococ said go out and, you know, have party, you know, party with the ladies. Sure.

And then, and the next. Yeah, it'll help my workout. And then, well, you know, maybe if I only work out three times a week and I spend most of my time partying, I'll be just, I'll get workouts level 11. No, you won't. So, yeah, man, make some exceptions to your discipline and go enjoy the company of some other people. Grow a little bit as a person, become a better human, compete, better, train harder. That's it. Agree.

So, man, this is a. concept that I think is if you can kind of incorporate or understand this concept in you know when you're working hard at something so when I was young when I first started lifting weights first started I don't know 15 or whatever however old is so you know you know how when you lift weights and you get that little pump right to me to me I thought that that's literally my muscles growing you know like I didn't know how it all worked I was like dang my muscle I can see the growth already so all I got to to do is lift every single day and watch out quick you know because most people they

won't work as hard as me because all just because I like doing it I like the pump whatever so I would do we remember the guy my friend I mentioned Eric Masters pilot in the Air Force yes so he he hit the one he always had the soda above the microwave anyway so I'd lift with him and his dad would invite me and my brother over will live when he started off with bench and you know this stuff so We go lift and I'm like, dang, I feel a pump. So now when we trend kind of went into, I want to say like varsity football, I don't know. Anyway, we started lifting in the weight room at the high school.

So I would do the same thing every single day, every single day, every single day. And my friend was like, this other guy I know, he goes, hey, are you benching every single day? And I was like, yeah. And he was like, bro, your muscles aren't going to grow. I was like, what are you talking about? Of course they do. They grow every single day. Like, I feel it even.

And he's like, bro, you don't know how it works. It's like, you don't, when you lift, they don't grow. They actually get torn. They get, like, almost like a little micro injury. That's how it works. And then when you rest and when you sleep and when you eat, then they grow. And it's like, and it still didn't make sense. So I was like, okay, I guess, you know?

He's like, you know, the soreness? You know when you get the soreness or whatever? I was like, yeah. He's like, like, that's like it, like hurt, like kind of injured or whatever. And then it has to heal up. And when it heals up, it heals up bigger. And I'm like, oh, okay. It's like, so you can't.

every day otherwise it'll just like it'll just won't grow it'll always be damaged i was like oh it makes sense so that rest in between workouts it's kind of important given my goal grow some muscles you see i'm saying where this kind of thing where it's like all go all go no rest right you need that rest to grow literally and that goes for anything truth and this is kind of the next question is very closely related to this. That's why I put it kind of like right next to it. Yeah. And that is, Jocko.

I should have asked in muster zeros or six, is there a dichotomy in the unmitigated daily discipline in all things? Yeah, and like I said, this is why I put this question here because it's related to the question, the answer that I just gave, which is yes, you can.

You can overdo it. And there is a dichotomy. You can put so much focus on working Um You can put so much working So much focus on working That you lose track of your family Yeah

And everything goes down Tail with your family Or you can do the opposite Put so much focus on your family That you lose track of That you don't do what you're supposed to do at work So you need to back off a little And you get people that waste

Time on things that don't matter This goes back Remember the podcast we did Where I was talking about how Like a black belt when a white belt's grabbing a black belt sleeve and it just doesn't matter there's people that think that it's important that I do this thing this certain way and the reality is it's useless it doesn't matter you're being OCD right you're being

OCD so or you maybe not being full OCD but you're being borderline you got to think about what's important and what's not important and if you're just if you generally or oftentimes people that are hyper disciplined about little things a lot of times they're missing their discipline in other areas of their life and one of them and you we've talked about this before too which is Somebody that just because someone is hyper disciplined in their physical fitness doesn't mean that they're disciplined in their rest of their life in many other ways whether it's financial Whether it's their relationships whatever like everything they can be screwing every they're super disciplined in weighing their food and doing macro calorie counting and all that that stuff right and yet they haven't paid their phone bill or whatever and they've got

financial issues or they've got health like other health issues and so you need to you need to back off enough on the little things that don't matter that so that the things that matter you can actually take care of now the weird dichotomy in this is again it always comes up the Russian soldiers in the Chesh and war not shaving is it really important that they shave not really but what's really important is that they have discipline overall and when they stop shaving they they let go of their discipline and that was the problem now so you there there is about that's what I'm saying there's a balance and I guess well let me let me make that a little more clearly if we

were in a war and what I was focused on was echo you better shave tomorrow that was my big focus echo your uniform better be squared away tomorrow Like that that is not what the most important the most important thing is like echo do you understand where the fallback positions are? Echo do you understand what your field of fire is? Echo do you know what you're supposed to do when we start getting overrun? Those are what's important and but if I focus on this little thing that doesn't really matter That can that can be a problem. So I need to make sure that I'm focused on the correct things and in life. Yes, you can unmitigated daily discipline if you try to apply it to absolutely everything in your life Just like prioritize and execute

If you try and solve all your problems at the same time You won't be able to solve any If you try and implement Perfect discipline in every single thing that you do You won't be able to Apply discipline To the things that are most important My

Garage gym Floor is dirty I sweep it Sure I sweep it every third day I just sweep it out But I don't get it there with a bucket and a mop and try and clean the chalk off so it's perfect black

sure why because it doesn't matter yeah man so some things in life are like your gym floor yeah it just it doesn't matter if there's chalk on it i'm gonna put more chalk on it later the chalk doesn't make me slip it doesn't make me sick it doesn't it doesn't but i don't care how it looks so don't worry about the chalk on the gym floor in fact there's gyms in the world where you're not allowed to have chalk because they don't want chalk on the gym floor Those places shouldn't exist in the world They should be illegal There should be chalk everywhere

Yeah, you're right So don't focus on things that don't matter There you go It seems like the whole discipline Equals freedom thing And whether you agree with it or not Actually, you know, I think you will agree with this It's a dance, you know

It's a dance with discipline and freedom You mean a balance of an economy? Yes, it is. In fact, I wrote a book about it Yeah, thank you. I appreciate you point that out So and it's gonna just take ownership too. It's just it just depends on who you are like you the discipline is gonna be taking the lead big time, you know and when you exercise your freedom with I don't know I don't know diet wise is like what mint chocolate chip ice cream or something like this when you exercise that freedom it's not gonna be very often but when you do boom Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's gonna have benefits. Yeah and that's when you see somebody that's let's just talk about this well when you see somebody that's out of shape You could say you could say one of two things you could say not enough discipline right or you could say too much freedom

We know it's one of those two things yes if you see someone that's having financial issues Yeah it's one of two things not enough discipline or or too much freedom they're getting out that credit card when they shouldn't be Right yeah, yeah that goes without saying that it's a balance its dichotomy That's correct yeah so even and also on top of that the the discipline in all things because that's a question right And in all things. Maybe you could write a book called the dance. The dance, sure. Of leadership.

I'll just copy the dichotomy leader. It'll be all good. But the, in all things, like discipline in diet, discipline in, you know, workouts and not slacking and whatever. And that looks way different than discipline in, like, relationships, for example. Like, if you're, like, you know, the discipline not to lose your temper or the discipline to respond to a. Maybe not disciplined person or some let's say someone you love who's who's maybe emotionally different than you or whatever

That looks and feels way different, you know if you really think about it. So if you're like hey, I'm not gonna I don't know I'm not gonna go to the park with my wife because I'm working out. That's my discipline I'm no slack you know kind of thing. Yeah, so you're lacking the discipline to organize around your relationship properly right with your relationship or whatever you're lacking the discipline to make sure that your wife understands that you're going to train yeah because I'm going to train yeah but as far as we're like and now that's back on the training again but like with like your relationships unless your relationships aren't important to you which is I mean I would I would argue most times there's some relationships in your life that that are going to be important I would argue

that well yeah there should be I think so too yes so that's what you have a seal up for maintaining discipline in those relationships looks different So it might not be as obvious. So when someone says, admit it, when you say unmitigated discipline in all things, I don't think automatically right off the top of my head like, oh, you know, my relationship with my wife, you know, or even the relationship with your kids, like when I think unmitigated daily discipline in all things, including my kids. So I'm going to, I'm going to make sure their discipline, oh, but the discipline of your of yourself dealing with the kids, that's a whole different thing. Is you know what I'm saying? True. So you got to kind of keep those in my, well, I've found, I've found, I've found. I've found. I've found. Yeah, I found when I, when I keep that in mind, it'll help. And then, yeah, and do the dance with freedom. You designate how much freedom you're going to exercise. And then you do the dance. You balance the dichotomy is what you do.

Yeah, yeah. I don't dance, bro. Right, you dance. Come on, man. Here's the wrong thing what I made a mistake of at one point, long time ago. I looked at you and I was like, shoot, I need to do that. I need to wake up. I need to like do all this stuff or whatever but if if I were to do that I jam myself up

So I can't like you can't use like the next person as the standard as far as the balance goes like you have to designate your own balance Yeah, because you have to modulate for your life. Yeah Whatever bro people don't just automatically know that I know I didn't check figured it I didn't see you getting up at 430 at any point though Yeah I tried you know that too Check anyway Next question. Is there one form or type of jujitsu that is better than other forms? Not Japanese versus small circle jujitsu, but pressure versus movement, bottom versus top, different types of quote unquote games.

Got it. Yeah. So if you don't know this, there's different types of jujitsu in the world. There's things like he mentioned here. There's Japanese jiu jihitsu and there's something called small circle jih Tzu. And then there's just a million different kind of. random sort of Names that people will put on Jiu Jitsu right?

The one that we do is Generally referred to as Brazilian Jiu Jitsu I just generally refer to it as Jitsu because that's what I'm talking about So there are different types of all the different types of Jiu Jitsu The one that you should be doing is Brazilian Jiu Jitsu the other types are not what you want to be doing We'll see they're less proven yeah, oh Generally and yeah, so that's just the that's just the reality of it so now but then he's asking a different question Which is the inside of inside of even Brazilian jiu jitsu there's different types of styles that people will have and these are People end up calling them games like what kind of game does this person have? Yeah, what kind of game does that person have?

And different people have different games and it depends on their body the different body the different body types have different styles different games different even different like cardio levels can have different games different thoughts different flexibility levels different games different styles even different personalities yeah if you have different personalities you'll end up with a different style so the question is are there some games or some styles that are better than other games or other styles inside of jiu-jitsu and my answer to that I think is no there's not games that are better than other games not styles of jiu-jitsu that are better than other styles of jiu-jitsu

it's just different people gravitate towards different ones and they use them successfully and that's why they continue to use them I would say this though if you can then develop more than one game Right? Yeah more than one game like if all you know how to do is Pressure pass that's the only kind of pass you know and you come up against someone that's really good of get at defending the pressure pass Yeah, you won't be able to pass the guard Yeah, if you're if you have a really good top game But you go against a wrestler that's a better wrestler than you and put you on your back

Then that's gonna be a problem Yeah, so you're gonna about another thing people ask is how do I develop my style the answer is you just train and your style is gonna come You don't know occasionally someone might tell you like hey you're long and lanky you should use Triangley should set up good triangle games or good dars chokes or someone says hey you're you got good base you should you know use a lot of pressure So there can be someone giving you some indication but you're gonna self-select as you train what works and as you can continue to do what works for you You'll get better and better at it yeah. Yeah, that's funny It makes sense like just training it'll sort of sort itself out you know your game your style like in the the reason

this might seem kind of obvious but the reason why like these tall lanky guys they'll do like triangles and stuff because when they first start training though the triangle is going to come way easier than the guy who's not as lanky you know early on so they'd be like oh shoot that's successful so it's kind of like check

that that's good so there again boom that becomes part of their game super early so that kind of is a dominant part of their whole game and then you know the more the more they train the more things are going to start falling into place in their game, you know? And so if you have a lanky person,

all those lanky moves are going to register way quicker than, you know, a shorter guy or stockier guy. Yeah, it's funny. How you put that, just train. You know, they all sort of just... They reveal themselves.

They reveal themselves. Yeah, they totally do. Check. Yeah, this question also ties into the next question, so I kind of coupled it up with the next question as well. Do you feel,

well, you know how your answer to the, is there a better game or whatever? I feel like, you know, like when you watch ADCC or something like this, And then you have a guy like Hodger who's six four, you know, and then you have Marcelo Garcia. Guys who are arguably like just as good. The two best guys ever to do it. And they're just completely opposite.

Radically different body styles. Yeah. Body types. Man, it's kind of like when I watched those, it's kind of like, you ever heard of the game, Mortal Kombat? I have heard of it, yes. Yeah. So it's like this real violent game at 2000 because it's like they have weapons and stuff that they can sort of bust out randomly. Like this guy named Scorpion, his weapon.

It's a spear with a rope or chain or whatever. and he pulls you and he does this thing and the guy who can freeze people you know and the guy who can I don't know throw his hat and just cut people I don't know you know so people have all these different weapons but then you would think hey if a guy can freeze a person

wouldn't he be the best guy you just freeze people that's all you got to do you know but it doesn't work itself out it's whoever's good at using the little ice ray or whatever whatever it's called who's better at using that spear with the rope okay we'll go with it man

but that's that's the way it works in Jiu Jiu Jitsu too I'm just saying. Well, anyways, that question relates to the next question. Oh, okay. Yes, next question, sure. Yes. Hi, Jock. Mortal Kombat.

Oh, was it Street Fighter? No, no. There was Street Fighter too, yes. Actually, there's Street Fighter, which really kind of went unnoticed, I think, by the general public. Then there's Street Fighter 2. That's when it sort of became like this big. That was like the main combat game, I think, with fighting Street Fighter 2. What years was that?

I don't know. I was in high school, though, so I don't know, 90s. It was good. I was doing Jiu-Jitsu. Yeah, no. Well, yeah, man. Well, you missed out a little bit because there's a lot of concepts. No, I didn't miss out on anything, dude.

Street Fighter 2 with it. There was this guy named Gile. His name was Gile. Dude. No. I'm telling you, I'm telling you, revisit that, or in your case, visit that. Gile, he threw this thing called a Sonic. It's, it's long.

Just look at it. Anyway, next question, Jocko. There's an army cliche that I'm sure you've heard of. Or you've heard that goes, everyone's leadership. style is different. I've heard it used many times as a cover-up for a failed mission or with someone who just isn't getting it done. What's your opinion on this? For all the advice that you give, there seems to be a continuous method to your madness and some basic principles for being a good leader. Does everyone have a different leadership style or is there an optimal optimal method

with personality tweaks? That's just amazing how well this jujitsu comparison to this is, this is just an incredible translation and if you know the way broadly you see it in all things because what this question is is exactly the same as the question above and and the fact of the matter is if you know jiu jitsu Brazilian jiu jitsu you know the fundamental principles of it you can do these tweaks if you don't know the fundamental principles of it you're just going to get destroyed yeah now okay if you're a catch wrestler that those have the same sort of fundamental things going on you know what I mean if you know samba so if you know judo so I'm saying if you understand I don't know what to call them but if you understand like

the fundamental principles of submission grappling of any kind if you know what those are then you can make some tweaks to them you can make some some adjustments to them to debate based on your style and your body type and your personality and your strengths and weaknesses yes it is the same thing with leadership so people are gonna have different styles they're gonna have different styles of leadership some people are super charismatic right and that person could take advantage their their charisma some people like connect with other people really easily some people don't you're gonna have just different little nuances to your personality and your

brain that are going to that you're gonna make little adaptations in your leadership style that's okay where it gets not okay is if you leave the fundamental principles that's where you have a problem because there was a there's an example that I thought of when I've read this question there was a guy that was coming through my training when I was running the the advanced training for the seals and he was making and actually Leif's told story you remember Leif he's told the story I think it's in the book too I don't remember but it's it's a podcast book we've talked about it a bunch we

talk about it when we go talk to clients Laif tells this story about how he was trying to give commands over the radio and no one's doing anything Because it's ineffective to give commands in a radio in a when there's a lot of machine gun firing all the stuff going on So I said hey Laif use verbal commands and he kind of like looked at me like I was crazy and I said him and just give it a try He did it it worked a couple years later I'm running training and there's a guy that's given a bunch of commands on the radio And I go to him. I go hey man use verbal commands and he's like He's like what do you mean and I'm like yell at everyone so they know what it is you want them to do They can't hear you on the radio there's a lot of stuff going on and he goes I don't lead that way

That's what he said to me. I don't lead that way and You know they just got destroyed because you know in his I don't know if he thought like hey look. I'm not gonna yeah I wasn't telling him to yell at his people I was telling him like yell the verbal commands And he wouldn't do it and they just got annihilated all the time and he ended up not Doing well as a leader because he was breaking the fundamental principles of combat leadership like simple clear concise commands that everyone understands it if they don't understand it it's yours and if you're talking on the radio Given these complex orders people aren't gonna understand what to do but if you give them the the the standard operating procedure maneuver command Peel right that's gonna get passed and everyone

It's gonna do it So he strayed away from the fundamental principles. It's like it's like saying well You know with me if I give you if I use a pressure point on your neck Yeah, then I'll win it's like no actually that's not gonna be effective Yeah you the pressure point thing is a fantasy Oh no it's real. Oh okay it is real you know what and there's a there's certain parts of your body that hurt a little bit more when you press into them I understand that that doesn't change You don't change you from getting choked doesn't change you from getting double-leg take down

You try to hit some of the pressure point while they're doing a double-leg take down on you? You're not gonna make it No it's not gonna happen so You you you have and I've told this story too about the guy that Wasn't very loud and I told him like hey you gotta get louder and eventually he got the guys that were loud in his platoon to start giving the verbal commands because he wasn't loud enough to do it and that was an effective way Still using the same principle just using a little bit of a different technique that's fine so yes different leaders are going to lead differently but the principles are going to remain the same that the principles of ownership cover move simple prioritize next you decentralized command and balancing

the dichotomies and then there's plenty of them in leadership the good leaders out there they will follow those principles and they'll make little tweaks to them based on their personality and that's fine but a tweak doesn't require an excuse And also effective or ineffective like if you make a change if you do something a certain way and it's not effective Then whatever you change doesn't working It's not working So use the fundamental principles make little apt to adaptations. It's okay, but if a leader is ineffective and they're failing Guess what their little adaptations like hey, I could make up a new move right for Jiujitsu

And I and I call it the the whiz bang sure and I say hey I made up this cool move It's called the whiz bang and let me show it to you and so I show it to you and you're like well I don't know if that'll work or not and I like no it'll definitely work The cool thing about Jiu jitsu is when I try it we find out if it works Now something doesn't work immediately Right, but let's say I keep drilling it on you and drilling it on you and I can never get you in the whiz bank Okay and then I go in a tournament and I try the whiz bang and I get smashed and defeated and then I I go through the constellation bracket I try the whiz bang and it gets smashed and defeated Then I go in the next tournament and I try the whiz bang and I get smashed and defeated and then I go in the next tournament and I try the whiz bang and I'm

I try the whiz bang and it gets smashed and defeated. Then I get in the constellation bracket. I try the whizbang, I get smashed and defeated. And I do this for six months. And the whizbang never works. Effective or ineffective. Currently ineffective. It's ineffective.

It's ineffective. If you're in a leadership position or someone's in a leadership position and they're failing and they're failing to execute the mission over and over and over again, their little tweak, their little leadership thing that they think is good to go, it's not. it's not good to go and it probably in fact I'll tell you

it violates one of the fundamental principles of combat leadership and if you can identify which one of those things it's violating you can get them to clean it up and fix it so there you go

whizbang don't try it don't try the whiz bang I don't know though I mean these jiu jitsu moves you know how like guys will like bust out moves man I don't know it's this endless thing Yes, you know new moves come out. Yeah and you won't hit a move a hundred percent of the time and you definitely won't hit it when you first start doing it

It's gonna be hard. How many arm locks do you think you put on someone before you made someone tap? In the beginning you probably did 50 arm locks before you got someone to tap Yeah, probably more yeah yeah maybe even more So that doesn't mean what the after the first 49 out's ineffective I'm not gonna do it. Yeah, the big differences The big differences on arm lock is a proven known entity and Cover and move is a proven known entity Simple is a proven known entity Prioritize and execute is a proven known entity yeah extreme ownership is a proven known and decentralized command is a proven it's like an arm lock It's like a choke that's why when some people say to me oh well

My boss doesn't like extreme ownership You know I know what's happening like it's there the boss's ego is offended because there's some other Some somebody telling them a different way to leave No, it's like what do you believe in? I don't believe in extreme ownership. Oh, I blame and I believe in placing the blame on other people That's how I lead. That's complete really completely ridiculous everybody knows that's ridiculous It's completely ridiculous cover and move I don't believe in cover and move. Oh, so you just like your other team members to go and take care of themselves and you take care of yourself How does that work don't work? It doesn't work Keep the oh, I don't like to keep things simple. No, I like to make things so complicated

complicated that people don't understand what I'm talking about. Does that make any sense whatsoever? No, it doesn't. Prioritize and execute. No, don't do that. What I'm going to do is spread myself so thin that I don't have the assets or resources to actually accomplish anything. That's what I'm going to do because that makes sense because I don't believe in extreme ownership or those fundamental laws of combat leadership. That's where you're at.

Decentralized command. Oh, I don't believe in that. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to make every single decision myself from the headquarters position. When you guys want to make a decision out there on the battlefield or out there on the manufacturing floor, I want you to run every single decision up through me because that's going to be effective. So if you violate one of these principles, you're going to have problems as a leader. If you tweak these principles, that's fine. If you look at decentralized command and you're like, you know what?

I know that the normal kind of span of control is five people. I can handle more than that. I can handle nine. And you step it up. That's tweak. That's okay. Right? That's fine.

If you prior, when you prioritize and execute, hey, the way I prioritize and execute, and this is the truth. The way I prioritize and execute isn't I look at my number one problem and I only focus on that one. I assign somebody to my number one problem. And I say, hey, Bill, go handle that room over there. It's a problem. And then I look at Mike and say, hey, Mike, get the rest of this hallway cleared. So I'm actually handling two. things but I give build a priority so that's a tweak I'm using assets that's fine

So sometimes yes you got to make these little adjustments everyone's got a different leadership style But you don't violate the principles of leadership just like you don't violate the The principles of submission grappling I'll call it yeah dig it next question I'm a huge fan of the podcast, and I'd like your advice. When I was younger, I joined the National Guard in an attempt to do something with my life and get out of depression. I lost my discipline and goals after basic training and continued in depression and disorganization. I had the opportunity to go to fight to flight school, but instead tested positive on a drug test, and I was given a general discharge.

I, of course, take full responsibility and feel like an idiot. How would you recommend moving past this failure? What would you have done if your seal career ended with a mistake? Well, if my seal career had ended with a mistake, I would have figured out what my next mission was going to be. That's what I would have done. I mean, I would have said, okay, I like that job. I failed at it.

What can I learn from that and what can I do next differently to make sure I don't make that mistake again I'm gonna learn from the past, but I'm not gonna dwell on it There's no point in dwelling on it the only point in dwelling on just to learn from it So that's what I would do here and then I would take what I Learned from my experiences of where I failed and I would also take the positive things that I learned because you even that failure is a positive even that failure is a positive even that failure is a positive because you realize you realize the value of the opportunity that you had and you blew it and you're like okay I'm never going to let that happen again lesson learned I'm actually stoked they get to learn that lesson because there's going to be more opportunities that come up in life and you got to make sure that you don't disregard those opportunities when they come up and so I would have taken those lessons learned take that take that failure and turn it into something positive and made good things happen when I figured out what my new mission a new career was going to be

Pretty straightforward. You can do so much good. And now that's going back to the story that I told about Jeff in the beginning of this podcast. One of the wording, some of the wording that I struggled with in the kid's story. And again, it's the warrior kid podcast. One of the things that I struggled with in telling the story was I ended up saying Jeff had gone too far and he couldn't correct himself. Yeah. He had gone too far and he couldn't come back.

And that's a real hard thing to tell a person. And it's a real hard thing to tell a kid. And the reason why I left it that way, the reason why I kept it like, listen, you can make mistakes that you can't come back from, especially as a kid. You can make mistakes that you can't come back from. They're pretty rare, right? There's not too many mistakes that are so grievous that you can't recover from them like this guy Hey man he made a mistake failed a drug test given a general discharge that sucks

Guess what he can do all kinds of good in the world He can make up for that tenfold He can start a business make money he can create a family He can raise great kids and there's so many things that he can make sure his kids Understand that and know that and learn from it and he can make sure some other neighborhood kids and high school kids and grade school kids and grade school kids He can make such an impact on the world by learning from that mistake. So it's very it's a harsh thing to say like hey, there's some things you can't now what this guy can't recover from and this is what this is the fact that you have to face and this is why I told it this way in the kid's story.

He didn't understand when he made that mistake. He didn't understand that there's some mistakes you cannot recover from. He can't be a pilot now. It's not going to happen zero chance. of him being a military pilot that's the way it works so if I would have had the opportunity to tell him when he was 13 years old hey listen bro I get it you're gonna step outside the box sometimes but there's some mistakes that you can make that you'll never be able to recover from so think about what you're doing

before you do them you need to think about what you're doing before you do them and if I would have had the opportunity to tell him that when he was 13 years old he might have had a better decision-making process when he got older that's why I left it that way for those kids so that they recognize that there are some things that you do as a person as a kid that you cannot recover from you cannot recover from now that being said when you take this and you put it in perspective as an adult see and as an adult you have much broader world to be a part of and just because he's not gonna be a pilot a military

pilot by the way just because he's not gonna be a military pilot there's all kinds of other opportunities out there and you can explain that to an adult but it's hard to explain that to a kid so what other opportunities I mean you even if especially like oh you want to be a pilot cool you can become a civilian pilot and you can you know you can fly you can make things happen that way but what we're not gonna do and what I would not do is dwell on the past and dwell on what the big missed opportunity is because guess what that's an that's a missed opportunity that there's all kinds of people in the world would love for that to be their biggest mistake

that they've made that's it they would love there's someone's sitting in prison right now that's like man I wish all I did was get a fail a drug test and I could have learned my lesson instead I'm sitting here in prison or I got injured really bad because I did something that I shouldn't have done or I made a bad decision or I got someone that I'd care about hurt or injured because I took him in a car when I was drunk like those are the kind of mistake this mistake sure it's a bummer guess what there are infinitely infinitely worse mistakes that he could have made infinitely worse So you're all right, man.

You're okay. Learn from it. Don't dwell on it. Move on and go do something really positive in the world. Next question. Hey, Jocco, what can we do with a coworker who isn't on board? When someone brings up something to him, he gets defensive and turns it into being everyone else's problem. Mm-hmm.

This was a Twitter question. by the way and and I answered it and I answered it really simply really straightforward take ownership of the problem solve it take ownership of the problem and fix it yeah right because think about what's happening here right the what the person is saying like oh this is me saying oh echo won't take ownership of the problem and every time I tell him he does something wrong he just gets defensive right so I mean obviously I'm not communicating with you well enough if all I'm doing is blaming you and you're getting defensive and by the way if I'm the type of person that takes ownership of things why am I blaming you in the first place I should be

looking at myself I should be looking at myself and by the way if echo if you point your fingers at me and you say hey this is my fault you know what I say yeah I agree it is my fault and here's what I'm gonna do to fix it now I'm not gonna rub it in your face I'm not gonna I'm not gonna do it so I prove a point that's not what I'm doing I'm actually doing it because I want to win I'm actually doing it because I want to accomplish the mission that's why I'm gonna fix the problem now if we have a Weak member of the team that doesn't take ownership then guess what? It's my responsibility to take ownership of the problem and fix it and eventually The good thing about this is if you make an excuse about something and I fix that excuse

And then you make an excuse about something else I fix that one and then you make a excuse about something else and I fix that one Eventually there's no more excuses for you and now you're left with what you can actually handle as echo With no more excuses to make and then either you're capable or you're not and by the way Guess what as the leader then it becomes my job to get rid of you if you can't if you cannot do the thing that I asked you to do or that you're supposed to do for the team So yeah, because I mean eventually if you if if I keep stepping up and taking things away from you there's not gonna be any more excuses and You'll either end up with no responsibility and therefore no value and then you have no job That's the way it works now. Let me ask you this when is there a time that? That's there a time that?

a subordinate does something and it's not the leader's fault so so think about this what and when something goes wrong with a team member when is it not the leader's fault so if you got a machine gunner and the machine gunner shoots outside of his field of fire clearly he didn't pay attention during brief that's the problem if I have a machine gunner that engages non hostile targets it's the machine gunners fault because he didn't do improper he he did improper positive identification of his targets and engaged a friendlies or or at least non-hostiles so that's the machine gunners fault or the machine gunner's

weapon goes down because the machine gunner didn't click it's his fault because he didn't clean his weapon properly the machine gunner fault so all those things the machine gunner shoots out of his field of fire the machine gunner engages non-hustle targets the machine gunners weapon goes down all those are the machine gunners fault clearly or maybe not so clearly because here's how I would look at those things because by the way when I point if you're my machine gunner I put my finger at you and start yelling at you and telling you that you did something wrong obviously we know what happens you start making excuses and blaming other people

and and you don't accepting responsibility because you get defensive and that's what people do So for me, and what a good leader does is a good leader when the machine gunner shoots out of his field of fire, the leader says, oh, you know what? I didn't explain the fields of fire clearly enough for you. I'm sorry, I'll fix it. Machine gunner engages a non-hostile target. Then the leader says, hey, I should have given you better training on target identification. We will go back and fix that.

or the machine gunner's weapon goes down. It means that, hey, as the leader, you know what, I should have done a better job inspecting weapons. I should have explained how important the maintenance was. That's my fault. I won't let it happen again. So even in these instances where it's real easy to blame the individual, a good leader instead of blaming the individual will take ownership of the problem.

That's what you do. And that's what's going on in this case. You got a co-worker that's not on board and just gets defensive and turns it into everyone else's problem. That's right. Grab ownership of those problems. And by the way, the subordinate that's not taking ownership, that's your fault as a leader. And the way that you get someone to take ownership isn't by saying, hey, don't get defensive. You need to take ownership of this problem.

It's your problem. That doesn't make people take ownership. Here's the tricky part. Here's the black belt situation. The black belt situation is. If I want you to take ownership instead of blaming you, I'm going to take ownership of the problem. I'm going to relieve you of that. And now you're going to go, no, no, no, no, no, no, that, no, I should be able to fix that.

I'm sorry, boss. I'm sorry, Jocko. I shouldn't have shot my, I shouldn't have shot outside the field of fire. I need to pay better attention during the brief. If I don't know what it was, I'm going to ask questions next time. Are you sure? Yes, I'm sure. Please let me get it fixed.

And that is how you get someone to take ownership. You don't get people to take ownership by telling them to take ownership of things. And there's a little dichotomy here too because if it's a plan Then the way I get you to take ownership of it is by saying hey echo come up with the plan Like we talked about standard operating procedures earlier if I come up with the standard operating procedures myself and then I force them on to you you don't take ownership of those Those are mine So I have to give you ownership but when it's a negative it's a positive thing I give it to you when it's a negative thing I take it

I take it Positive thing give it Because people want that positive thing When it's a negative thing they don't want it you take it from them And by the way when it's a positive thing and you give it to them guess what they want to do with it They want to share it they want to do it When it's a negative thing and you forced on them they want to get rid of it So there you go

I'm glad that this person's in the game and now they know how to handle this co-worker and make it into a good situation I think we got time for one more Last question Jocko hey Jocko How do you implement change When you know it is needed How do you implement change when you know it is needed Well when I know I need to change something

What I do is I change it That's what I do I change it And I've had People that listen to the podcast and they've reached out to me over the past few years. And one of the main messages that they took and put into action was actually putting things into action, whatever that was.

They stopped eating sugar. They stopped sleeping in. They started waking up early. They quit playing video games for 10 or 12 or 14 hours a day. They sold that. Xbox thing there was a guy that bit his nails for his whole life and he's in his like 30s Well, whatever no big deals right you know he bit his nails. Oh, you know what his nails are all chewed up and they're bloody and they're gross looking and he's self-conscious when he's meeting people and shaking hands and he can't keep his hands away from his mouth while he's in meetings or in in interacting with people But he couldn't stop and then he stopped

he just stopped and the list goes on there's people that are quit drinking and quit doing drugs and quit losing their temper and i've heard from so many different people that have implemented change in their lives so so many letters and messages and notes and i want you to know that these people aren't a bunch of of elite special operations warriors That's not who they are. They aren't a bunch of high-level athletes or highly screened and highly trained individuals. These are just normal people, really.

But they're normal people that knew they needed to make a change. And they decided they were going to make a change and then they made it. And is what I do. And that is what you can do too if you have something to change if you want to change something change it change it now. I think that's all I've got for tonight so Echo speaking of implementing change and change in our lives to become a little bit better maybe you could have

help us with some things that can make us a little bit better. Sure. First, what's up with Mikey and the Dragons? Mikey and the Dragons. Yes. So, Mikey and the Dragons is released into the world. Now, okay, so speaking of ownership, and I know one of the earlier questions was about ownership,

and I have to take ownership myself at this time, because I made a mistake. I made a mistake. And just as I as you pointed out as I've talked about my publisher not ordering enough books and how hey They don't order enough books. They don't get it. Well guess what? I didn't order enough books So I am getting them printed right now I'm getting them printed as fast as humanly possible We have multiple printers working and if you order early you're likely gonna get yours

on the release date and I know some people have been posting their Amazon images that their Mikey the Dragons is shipping so some people are gonna get it soon but even that's not a guarantee at this point even if you ordered early I apologize don't blame Amazon it's not their fault don't blame FedEx and don't blame the post office and don't blame UPS is not their fault if you don't get the book on time it is one person's fault and that is mine I should have done a much better job estimating how many books you all were gonna buy and I guess as soon as I saw people that were ordering 12 books 12 Mikey and the Dragons that should have been a real indicator that I

that I should have gotten more printed but I didn't do that I apologize um you guys have ordered a ton and so at this point I have a ton more being printed my goal is to get them to you by Christmas it should be possible if you order now we've got enough coming in they should be there to get in the stockings for Christmas if if you've already ordered so if you've ordered though be patient if you haven't ordered yet order like right now so that I can print more and like I said right now we should have enough if you order right now you should be able to get it by Christmas And if you want it, yeah, just order it and I'll just get as many printed as we need. I apologize.

It's definitely my fault. I was weak. I was, you weren't weak. No, what was I used to call it weak? And then you'd be like, they're just being conservative. So I was too conservative. I balanced it too much in the wrong direction. And so order the book.

And I appreciate the few people that I've sent a copy to. The feedback has been awesome. The book in the words of John Bozak, who did the drawing and did the art. And you're going to see, he's the same guy that did the art for Way the Warrior Kid. This art is a totally different deal because it's beautiful. It's color. It's vibrant. Yeah, he did an amazing job.

And you know what? He says, like, he's, you know, he said to me, he's like, you know, people say things and they say it in a certain way. Yeah, he did that. He just goes This book is special and I was like you know the way he said it was like I was like and and I feel that way but you know of course I'm biased because I wrote it Right, right but when when he drew it so he's biased too but he didn't say it like hey this book is awesome normal voice right he was like he was like hey this book is this book is really special Yeah, and I was like okay so I think this book is gonna be on every kid's bookshelf. I think it's gonna be right next to their copy of where the wild things are That's what I think which was you know one of all of our favorite book when you're a kid and I know that's a bold statement

But anyways I think it's gonna have a great impact on kids so if you want a copy for your kids for your neighbor kids for your library your school Whatever classrooms For yourself for yourself yes if you're 38 years old Yeah sure and you want to to learn a little something about the world about overcoming fear about how to face thing you want to have it put in a in such a clear way then get yourself a copy so right echo agree and you've read it I mean obviously yes sir and you've read it to your youngsters yes I have and they're approved approved yeah she wants me to

read it again well this one this is a book that takes 20 minutes Yeah, maybe 20 maybe yeah but around 20 minutes to read yeah so it rhymes. Yeah, which is is fun Yes and impactful in little kids. They love it when those things are yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah, they follow it. So there you go if you want one again. I apologize if you're not if you don't get it on the 15th of November My goal is to at a minimum some of you are gonna get it on the 50 if you ordered early hopefully you'll get it by then But my goal let's get it to you By Christmas, I've got publishers all over, or printers all over printing it. So thank you.

And that's that. Mikey and the Dragons. Cool. Quick. What else, what else we need? Well. How else can we implement change in our life? Sure.

Well, let Jiu-Jitsu talk today. Once you know the way broadly, you will. In fact, see it in all things. So when you are. Exploring the road of Jiu-Jitsu, you're going to need a ghee. Even if you do just no-ghi, well, if you only do no-gi, then I guess you don't need a ghee. But when you are searching for a ghee, get an origin gea. That's it, 100%.

Yeah. Go to origin-main.com. That's where you get it. Rash cards on there is well. All made in America. Woveen. In America. In America. Cotton.

All the cotton. Grown. Grown in America. In America. Wovein in America. By the way, it's not just cotton. It's a special blend. Yeah, and a special weave by the way. And a special weave. How cool is that weave? Like no kidding when you see dragon weave for the first time

Are you not like a little bit? A little bit what impressed? I'm a lot of bit impressed. So and here's the thing too when you when you kind of been in the game for a long time Let's say you're not easily impressed by geese Yeah. No. No not not generally speaking. No, but you do pay attention like you know when you grab a geet your own gie you're really used to your own If you have two geese, three geese, four geese, and they're all kind of different weeds, you know those, right? So when you see someone else with a ghee, you grab it, you're like, okay, you know, I'm familiar, whatever, cool.

But when you grab the dragon weed for the first time, especially when you've been in the game for a while, you're like, ooh, this one is different. Like, like that. Yeah, well, I've definitely had a couple people that only got into Jiu-Jitza, like they've only, Dave Burke. Good deal, dude.

Yeah, he's only had origin geese. That's it. He's spoiled. He doesn't even know what all these other stories about bad geese, he doesn't even understand them. Stories. Like, oh, oh, they just, they're stink and they're heavy and all they writ and all that stuff. He doesn't know any of that.

He's just like, oh, everything is awesome. Yeah. So in a way, I mean, I kind of want to say, hey, dang, that's good for him. He's lucky in that way. But, you know, hey, that's part of the game. It's part of the journey. Yeah. You know, nonetheless, whether you used to it or not used to it, Dragon Weave is legit.

Are we allowed to talk about that new weave that we were exploring the other day at your house? Not yet. Okay. We're gonna keep our beaks buttoned on that one. Yeah, don't forget about rash guards though. Yes, of course. So when you're doing no geese, some people they use the t-shirt, I dig it. Some people they use the dry fit.

I dig it. To me, rash guard is the way to go. This is why. Because other people's toes, sometimes, not all the time, could get caught in that shirt when it's flapping around in the wind. True. And you know, hey, you know, it's a rash guard. It's cool.

It looks more uniformy. What about the scientific? compression increased vascularity oh I'm just kidding yeah no hey man I'm sure there is that there is that yeah oh when you when you wear the rash card yeah when you wear the compression clothing

yeah like health with endurance or something like and that's cool I'm not over here making those claims yeah I am making this claim 19% improvement when you wear the rash card based on your whole mental state yes agree get some yeah and

Not to mention speaking of mental state on those days that you don't want to train get a new rash guard those days They don't exist anymore at least for four months Yeah yeah yeah another new rash guard She'll give or take it's true so yeah cool the compression cool cool Yeah Pete was actually starting to go into it with me hey man I could tell you I'm like well cool man Let me go good call you back we just go 19% and it's based on mental state Yeah, based on getting after it harder yes agree so yes good rash guards on there also some uh how should I say lounge gear that's

that violates your whole thing that violates everything lounge anyway that's Theo luxury you call them luxury items get Leo Vaughan here to talk about luxury oh just the concept of luxury yeah luxury days well the sweats that they have are luxury and here's the thing unprompted I go on Twitter and you know you get like people when they get their stuff they're like hey you know you take a picture of your stuff normal so I'll have a hoodie and it'll be he'll say this is the softest hoodie I ever had that's that's the that is the fact yeah yeah that is a fact and then there's I didn't understand this joggers yes I didn't understand

why they're called joggers and what their purpose is old school sweat pants they're just there's like an elastic they're like straight cut then there's an elastic thing around the bottom and You're just all baggy. Sure. The purpose, apparently, did you tell me this, that joggers are cut tighter, and then they have, like, a tighter ankle so you can actually jog in them. That's the purpose.

Yeah, so the... I didn't know that. I had no idea. Yeah. So when you jog, they don't flap around in the wind. It's not just the ankle, the whole leg. So the whole leg kind of adheres to your... It's more, like, fitted to your leg.

And then they're more roomy in the hips, so you can have a... You know, you can sprint, you can jog, you can run. You see what I'm saying? They just so happen. And that mobility... that it allows for running translates 110% to just cruising

when you're laying down on the I'm telling me 100%. Take it from me, I know. Check. There's some supplements on there too. We got some we got some supplements as a matter of fact. Good subpoena. Joint warfare.

Number one bestseller. Joint warfare. I see why. Yeah. Crel oil. Yeah. What? Okay. So a lot of people ask this too. And you told, okay, the difference, you know how the people, so a guy would be like, hey, I work a physical job. Eight hours, ten hours a day.

I want to do a workout or whatever my joints take kind of a beating. What should I take? Joint warfare or krill oil. So people, they will wonder about that, which one should I take? Because they're both for your joint. Yeah. And the straight-up answer is, yes, take both of them. You should absolutely take both of them.

If you can only get one. If you, I would say if you're just, if you're just feeling. What's the word like if you have like legitimate Soreness real legit soreness I would go with joint warfare But I like krill oil and I've the thing is I've taken the these things for so long together that I just I don't know it's hard for me to answer that Yeah, yeah well Brian would tell me that

Crill oil is for just general you know Maintance you know you get let's face it you're getting older and you know you're gonna maintain gonna maintain that's why I'm not getting older yeah probably not and yeah like how you were saying you know you your joints take a beating like an actual beating where they kind of hurt now then yeah joint warfare because it help inflammation well actually the cruel oil take I got fire I got fired up today I did my workout I threw on the weight vest oh yeah and I just did I just pretended like I didn't have it on but I had it on from my workouts you probably you know that helps you know like that's mental

state to be like sure so it's a difference between like like this you can lift in these different ways too but yeah when you put weights on you just like you know some people they'll swing a baseball bat or something they'll put a weight on there something like that and mentally if you basically you're training your functionality with that and that resistance sort of just happens to be there so your brain just kind of accommodates you know so when you function without the weights you're just flying around it's like easy it's like i weigh less now you know rather than oh i'm gonna just eke out 10 reps of this very specific thing then you're training your body yeah kind of

I did this I kind of did this little like a mental debate like oh well I you know I feel like I should I should do something a little bit more oh maybe I'll do some rounds with this and then I'll take it and I was like no I'm just gonna do the whole thing like I just and I did every exercise even just completely unrelated exercises with with a weight vest on yeah man that's good I was doing box jumps the other day which I actually don't do that much but like I did and I was like now I think here's the warning on box jumps pay attention during box jumps oh yeah it's real easy especially when you get when you get smoked and you start just kind of kind of You're just going through the motions and that's when you miss. Yeah. And when you miss the box jump, you get that shinner. No fun. Yeah. You don't want none of that. Yeah.

And yes. And that's what I was thinking too. I was like, man, when I, because I, you know, it's part of the MECON. I was going back and forth. Yeah. It's a long thing. But box jump was part of it. And yes, towards those later rounds, I was like, okay, I better focus.

Good. Yeah. And I was doing it. I was adding a little something. You know, when you, when you jump down, I went down into like a little squat. Man did the jump. Oh, okay. So it's not just the box.

It's like down squat, but yes, and made me think like, I could get a weight vest and really maximize these box jumps. Yeah, pay attention. Pay attention, though. Take some discipline beforehand, too, by the way, which is a little pre-mission get some. And then if you need food, if you need nutrients for your body and for your mind, didn't take milk.

Yeah. Mulk, taste delicious. What I did yesterday? Sure. What? I took whipping cream. Heavy whipping cream. Heavy whipping that you turn into whipped cream.

Yeah. But normally what do you put in it? You know how to make whipped cream? Yes. What do you do? What else do you have to do? Add an egg white in it? No.

You got to add sugar. Oh, okay. So recently I read this thing that one of the whip cream companies came out with like Reese's peanut. Reese's peanut butter whip cream Okay, and some other kind of whipped cream. So you get it in the spray can. You press the little nozzle Boom. Yeah, you got Reese's peanut butter flavored whipped cream and I thought to myself, yep, that sounds good Boy, that's the freedom part. So guess what I did? I took heavy whipping cream that you make whipped cream with and I put

peanut butter milk in it. I And I whipped it and guess what? Walla. It is good to go. People like creating things, I guess. Tastiness. Yeah.

Tastiness. So, yeah. And all of them taste great. All of them are awesome for you. And we got mint, peanut butter. We got mint chocolate, peanut butter chocolate, vanilla gorilla. And of course, the darkness chocolate. And then Warrior Kid.

Warrior Kid Mulk. Of which, look, they both taste delicious. As a matter of fact, my son today, because it was getting cold, and I hate saying that. Because we're in California. And cold is not cold. So everyone in Michigan, Pete, the crew up in Maine, I apologize because it was getting cold this morning, which meant it was probably like 54. Yeah. Right?

Which out here in California, in Southern California, it's like, oh, it was cold this morning. So anyways, it was a little chilly this more, a little nip in the air. Of course, we're only wearing shorts and a T-shirt. So in Maine, I know Pete's up there wearing a parka. But my son he was jumping on his bike to go check the waves and He had a little he had a little like a coffee tumbler one of our tumblers and he doesn't drink coffee and I was kind of like what what are you doing? He goes I made some hot cocoa And I said let me try it with the warrior kid the warrior kid chocolate That makes sense

It's just delicious. It's just amazing it's like hot cocoa it's hot cocoa except for guess what it's good for you and makes you strong Yeah. What's up with that? It's good. What's up with that? So, yeah, so that's the mulk. Anyways, strawberries is delicious. It's, get it for your kids.

It's in my house. It seems to be the only thing anyone in my house is eating right now. So give that a shot and enjoy it. You're gonna be mad. I think you might be, what's a parka? A parker's just a coat. It's a big winter coat. Yeah.

Yeah, you ever seen the coat that has like a fur around the hood? Yes. That's sort of like the quintessential parka. Dang, I think those things. are kind of dope. The word parka is kind of, kind of ify. What are you talking about? I don't know.

I've never heard the word I'm saying, coming in fresh, you're used to it. Bro, you're from Hawaii. How are you to know what a parka is? I understand that. Didn't you not even see snow until like three weeks ago or something?

No, for real, you didn't see snow until you were 30, right? Or something like that? Well, technically I saw snow on the big island when I was a little kid one time. Yeah. And you go to the big island, you go up in Moniquea and you can see snow.

We went up there with shorts and a tech top, by the way. We just drove up. But since then, yes, I had not seen snow until I was 30. Yes. Yeah. So there's no possible way you're gonna know what a park is, bro. So yeah, so which kind of is part of my point where if you've never really, I mean, I've heard the word parka, but I'm not used to what a parka kind of entails and what the goodness of that.

So I'm just left with the word parka. And a parka is, as far as just the word, doesn't seem like, I don't know, seems like a funny word. Huh. Well, put some context around it. Yeah freezing cold people give them a parka nice solid warm functional Parka be able to live yeah yep I man I dig it see growing you know growth we call that grow I'm growing here trying to speaking of growth you're gonna stay on the path and represent at the same time grow in that way go to jocco store.com that's right jacco is a store So we can get your discipline equals freedom shirts women tank tops by the way

men tank tops men's tank tops men's tank tops I know the temperature is dropping. I'm not going to say it's cold here in California. I'm not going to say that. The temperature is lowering, you know? So I dig it if you're not going to wear the tank top all the time. I dig it. But they're on there nonetheless.

Some hoodies. Either they're out now or they will be within one week from right now. T-shirts? T-shirts. How about that Def-Core T-shirt? Oh, day. See, you're representing the Def-Core T-T-shirt right now. That's good because it's, hey.

I talked about like for me to make a statement with what you're wearing is kind of just a little bit I don't like that's too much I'm not dressing to make a statement is my is my point yeah I don't think I'm not dressing to make a statement I wear the functionality is primary so I don't know I thought this shirt is functional right it is functional and it makes a subtle statement I must admit well even not making a statement is making a statement it's kind of Like Bruce Lee. Well, no. If you try too hard to not make a statement, then that's just, then you're a bigger statement.

You're defeating it. Yeah, you're defeating the purpose. That's why this shirt, subtle statement made mostly to yourself. There's not a statement to the world because people just look at this, would not even think twice about it. Maybe they'd think one more time about it and think what is that. Yeah. Well, if you're watching this on YouTube, they're going to notice that you're not wearing the victory. And that's going to be a huge statement.

And that's going to actually maybe even throw some people for a little loop. And, you know, nonetheless, yes, all on jocco store.com. Some cool rashcards on there as well. Some get out a little bit more, how should I say, geared towards the specific path of getting after. There's technically one that literally says get after it. So I guess that's point on point. Hey, subscribe to the podcast. If you don't, iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, leave reviews so that we can read them and get a good laugh from the

crazy things that you say thank you also the warrior kid podcast we just put out a new one I apologize that they come a little bit further apart than these I've gotten many people that have said they have been listening to the first 18 warrior kid podcast over and over and over again so I'm glad they're learning lessons and I appreciate the feedback on those also don't forget your warrior kid soap from Irish oaks ranch dot com young by made by young warrior kid Aiden who's making jaco soap and his advice which I totally agree with is get some soap so you can stay clean dig it YouTube don't forget about YouTube subscribe to the YouTube channel so you can see echoes legit videos you can see

if we have guests on you can see who they are what they look like how they react all that stuff you can get a feel for you can get to see what if you don't know what echo looks like he doesn't look like what he sounds like so we've been told yeah so you can see what echo looks like and then you can put a comment that says it can say for instance echo lookin jacked sure or damn echoes yoaked or whatever so there's a lot of those comments that make it on there and I know that that that's basically the form of compensation that echo gets for his work is people telling people in YouTube comments saying echoes got jacked guns.

So if you want to pay Echo Charles, if you want to pay Echo Charles, there's no Patreon account, there's no GoFund me, you just go on to YouTube comments and you write Echo looking jacked boy. So there you go. Clever, clever, clever. Also, psychological warfare. That's an album. with tracks that we made jocco talking by the way telling you how to get past through get through power through those moments of weakness when they arise which they do sometimes by the way i know you don't know this actually you do know this but they do arise but if jocco's there telling you how to

get through it pragmatically by the way you'll get through it i found that to be a fact 100% of the time also while you're doing your workout and it gets boring go to on it dot com slash jacobos by that and get new kettlebells so what I did totally revives your whole workout in fact do this do your normal workout if in fact it doesn't have kettlebells in the workout do your normal workout into a kettlebell workout like maybe like a five or ten minute one yeah my son was asking me about working out and he was kind of like oh I just want to get like like what big muscles just just get strong and so I and he can do the or has done the kettlebell snatch,

but I was like, up the weight a little bit and throw that thing up there. And I go, every time you have to stop that thing in the top position, it's like, your whole body has to kind of put some effort into it. You will have, if you haven't done it before, and you go a little bit heavier than like what you, which I don't, you know, if we could be careful, blah, blah, whatever.

Okay, so if you go a little bit heavier, you will have like sore abs the next day. Your abs will be sore. So your posterior chain will be. That's a real thing get some work I know it's a poster your posterior chain because there's people like what you want to do I get you know so your poster interior chain will be Get work but believe it or not Your front anterior your anterior chain will get work too because it has to arrest Yes that weight which is flying up there and then it has to stop otherwise it rips your shoulder out which is why you should be careful

Don't go too heavy but it's and so my you know my bicep is this is healing It's almost there, man. We're almost there. But one of the things I could straight up not even start doing until very recently is kettlebells on that side. You know, because it flaps around. Yeah, yeah. Like it twists your wrist in this way that it really puts. So I even when I go out on a light one and it's weird because the pain is less there more so than just kind of the raw newness of my arm going through that whole kettlebell procedure.

So I'm saying? So like, you know when the thing comes up to a rest right here on your wrist, Just it's sitting there on your wrist. It has to rest there on your wrist. Your wrist is twisted in a certain way, you know? It's cool. It's normal if you don't. But man, it's weird the difference of my right hand, my good hand, and my bad hand.

Just the thing resting on the thing is like, oh, you know, like you having. So you lack the conditioning. Yeah, but. The conditioning is faded. Just in your little bone. Yeah, yeah. The toughness. The toughness of my whole thing.

I felt that the other day when we were rolling. Oh, that my toughness. Yeah, just like a. a dissension of toughness. Yeah, yeah, no, no, no, I didn't. See, I was just, I was taking it light, you know, see what I'm saying? You're really happy with that, actually.

I'm just saying, hey, don't forget about chocolate white tea. It is certified as the only beverage, whether you get it in the can or you get it in the bag and you steep it yourself. Either way, it is the only beverage in the world that comes with a 100%

money-back guarantee of an thousand pound deadlift good which is really good and it's organic by the way it's organic on top of that something so tasty and as the winter arrives and it gets really cold out here in California sorry yeah yeah my people of the north get that warm tea going just put a couple bags now some people worry about how long you should steep do you know what steep the tea means I do know yeah okay yeah so how long should you steep the tea In my opinion when I put a tea bag in it's not coming out

Oh straight out I just leave it in there I'm gonna leave it in there it's it's good to go to drink and you know like a couple like a minute Or maybe two minutes But then I'm not taking that tea bag I'm gonna get all that all that joccal white tea all that pomegranate goodness all that all all those antioxidants are coming right into my system Solid and it tastes delicious and it does have caffeine in it I will say So the cans have sick mm-hmm depending on how long you steep and I think when you steep it like I do there's probably a little bit extra a little bit of extra get some sure inside there steep it forever also got some books okay way of the warrior kid and

Mark's mission those are two kids books but I promise you that uncle Jake has lessons for everyone yeah agree and I'm one of those people and so I think when you read that to your kids oh well In my case, because my daughter's five, can't quite read a book yet. So I'll read it, but I feel like I'm reading to myself too. Like these are all things that I, some that you forget. I think as an adult you forget a lot of these lessons.

You know, because now you have a routine. As an adult, you have a routine. Some of these lessons, it feels like they don't apply at first, you know? So you kind of forget them and you got, man, I wish I could just incorporate that little thing. One of the fundamental laws of combat is simple. And weigh the warrior kid. Is the it's life rules put forth in a very simple way that a young child could

Understand them but what's surprising is in that simplicity it hits anyone Solidly right between the eyes So that's way the warrior kid and Mark's mission you can get those also got the discipline equals freedom field manual That's another one that if you if you read or if you refer to too it'll like remind you because like okay so man I don't meditate I don't like like you know like okay it's arguable who jiu jitza meditation it's not it's not it's not meditation you know what they're talking about when you say do meditate so from what I understand if you meditate on certain things they help like incorporate it into your

you know your whole normal thought process or whatever he'll hook over that's what I start with by the way but and then you would need and this is just my thought about meditation you would need less reminders of certain things you know like yes how to like detaches to for whatever reason when I understood the the concept of detach and the importance of it that's a that's to me just kind of established itself as like pretty one of the most important things that you can roll into your life that'll improve it right away it definitely will right then and there but Here's the thing just like how you said

You got to notice when you got to detach you know it's not detaching into the hard part It's to notice you know like when it's time to go and so for lack of better term you're forgetting to detach right now Because you're so distracted by how you feel or whatever so it's one of the so the feel manual is like a really good one So like man if you can refer to that boom and this goes for all the subjects in there by the way Like so like every day even every other day two three days whatever just refer back to it man it helps it keeps it on your mind all these things Yeah, totally does people post pictures of the field manual Yeah, like one page or two pages of it yeah and when I whenever I when someone posts a picture that I actually read I wrote the book but I still read this section and say like and it and I don't read it and go

Oh, I remember writing that I actually go I can do that better. Yeah, I want to do that. I need to focus. You know what I mean? So and here's a good thing about that were Overwhelmed right. That was one that I don't even know who posted it first But it was like I don't know Posted it and like JP maybe J.P. Yeah. Andy Reposted it. Yes. So that was one where it's like You know why people are posting that? Because when they read it When they go they refer it to it they're like oh it clicked again. Let me you know because that's kind of the whole nature of posting things

So the boom that's exactly what's happening. So it's like boom I need to remember that one. It's not like that's the first time they read it Maybe it is maybe it's not but most of the time it's like okay. I referred back to that and they got to repost it. So it's doing exactly what I'm saying. It's reminding You like overwhelmed overrun and you know certain ones apply to you at certain times too, you know So it's like good man just to refer back to that so I do it will keep you on the path if you want the audio version It's not available on audible.com. It's available on iTunes Amazon music Google play and other mp3 Platforms also extreme ownership I already talked about extreme ownership and the leadership principles that are in that and I talk about them all the time And explain them to people in every different

type of organization that's what everyone at echelon front does which is our leadership consulting business which is me and laif babin and j p dennell and d'all and dave burke and flin cochran and mike sirelli and mike bima that's what we do we talk about the fundamental principles that are in that book that we brought home from the battlefield and that book extreme ownership after we got done writing that book and taught that stuff we wrote another book it's called the Dicotomy of leadership which we also talked about a bunch of that because you can't talk about you can't talk about leading human beings Without talking about extreme ownership the fundamental principles of the laws of combat And and then when you start talking about that you got to talk about the dichotomy of leadership

So those two books are also Available and what I like seeing is when I just saw one today guy had probably posted a picture of 30 copies of the dichotomy of leadership. He's like, this is going to the whole team. Because that's how you get everyone aligned. You make everyone see, oh, you know what? I'm gonna think of this way. Now, some people go, oh, well, I don't wanna share the secrets.

They wanna keep it for themselves. That doesn't help you. You don't do better. You do better if everyone understands the principles. That's gonna make you do better as the leader. And by the way, if you're out there trying to do better for yourself, don't read the book, go and do something else, because I don't even want you.

you around oh just for yourself if you're just trying to look out for you the principles aren't for you yeah you won't understand them properly so and yet if you want to win the best possible way to win by the way isn't by looking out for yourself it's by looking out for the good of the team it's by looking out for the mission that's how you win and that's what these books will help you do so there's those echelon front already talked about it leadership consultancy if you want us to come and work with your company or come and speak to your company go to echelonfront dot com don't contact a speakers bureau don't Google jocco

speaking because it'll be a random speaking agent that you'll then have to work through just contact us our company echelonfront dot com the muster we have muster seven and eight in 2019 Check extreme ownership.com. Those are our leadership conferences. And all of them have sold out. Did I say some of them are sold out? Nope.

All of them have sold out. And they are all going to continue to sell out. So look for the details. When the opportunity, when we put the details out and you want to come, sign up, that's extreme ownership.com. And then Overwatch is our business where we are taking. special operations leaders combat aviation leaders and placing them into civilian organizations that need leadership experience and trained leadership so if you want to get involved with that

whichever side you're on eFoverwatch.com go there and you'll figure out which way to go whether you're someone from our communities or you're someone that needs leaders from our communities go and make that happen and if you want to stay on the path with us we are available on the interwebs on Twitter on Instagram and on that fishie ball keep ha echo is at echo Charles and I am at Jocko Willink and thanks to all the military personnel worldwide worldwide out there in harm's way holding the line and here at home thanks to police and law enforcement and paramedics and EMTs and correctional officers and border patrol and first responders and at this moment actually especially the firefighters out here fighting these

crazy and powerful fires in California thanks to you all and there's a lot of police and EMTs and paramedics supporting them as well just all of you thanks for risking your lives to make us safer and to the rest of you that are out there carrying on your mission whatever that may be but if you're listening i know you're in the game and trying to get better just like we are and if there's a change that you need to make in your life you know what you need to do get after it and make that change and until next time. This is Echo and Jocko. Out.