Jocko Podcast - 154: How to Effectively Communicate. Advanced Extreme Ownership Tactics, and Other Winning Tips for Life. Q and A.

Episode Date: December 5, 2018

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This is Jocko podcast number 154 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. And we are going to go into some Q&A today. Sure. We got a bunch of questions to go through. I asked if anyone on Twitter had questions and I got a ton of them. So we're going to try and answer some of them.

Some people, if you're listening and you asked a question like, what time do I go to bed? or what kind of workout do I do or something like that, then I'm not going to answer it now because I've answered it a bunch of other times. There's a lot of fundamental things, or it's in the Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. Or, you know, so these were some questions that had a, some of them, yeah, we've heard some of them before,

maybe there's a different spin, but some of them I tried to pull back or pull out the fresher type questions for this and ones that aren't entirely fresh I'll try and cover very briefly with whatever the new sort of angle is because there is a there is a fact that you know you go to a class and you learn two or three new moves in jiu jitsu and that's good but you also review just a just a arm lock sure and that is still beneficial especially if it's from a new angle or a new instructor they tell you hey you know you move your hand a little bit further out on their wrist

if you're going for that thing and it helps you sure so there's little little details yeah cool so let's rock and roll cool all right first question can you describe how difficult or no factor leaving your family was before deployment i hate leaving okay let me just answer that one yeah it's sucks leave your family before deployment that's the way it is one thing that i've always said is you know to guys that we're saying oh i got i'm going to leave my kids and it's horrible to leave and I'm like yep it is and they worry about it from the kids perspective I'm not gonna be around you know well here's the deal men have been leaving to go and fight wars and do what they got to do for thousands of years and so your kids are gonna be okay and what's good

is they will see what you're doing see your service and your sacrifice and you stepping up and holding the line for the nation and that will be a lesson that they will learn by observation and so even they'll be sad but inside they're learning they're learning that there's things more important than yourself and so it's a good lesson to be taught yes is it is it is horrible to leave your family it sure is but it is a lesson for your kids and it is a sacrifice you're making for your country and There is there are benefits to it you know your kids you get to come home and you'll see it and you'll see your kids You know be all excited and it's good. It's a good thing. So that's question one. Yes, it's harsh, but it's a worthy

It's a worthy cause. Yeah Kind of second part to the question Did you cry when you learn that your childhood friend committed suicide while while you were doing buds? Okay, yeah. So I mentioned that on a couple podcasts ago that my friend Jeff killed himself while I was going through bullets. He was a kid I'd grown up with. But I had grown apart from him in the later grades, 6th, 7th, 8th grade, and through high school, we kind of grew apart. So I did not, you know, I was, you know, I was sad by the situation, but I didn't, I wasn't

super emotional about it because I, we had kind of grown apart and it had been, you know, I was now in the Navy. So no, didn't. cry but was definitely sad about the situation. Isn't, I mean, kind of back to that first part about leaving, isn't like that like a healthy dose of that like good for the kids? For sure. Because it's like now they know how to make do, you know, like if dad's there for every

little thing kind of thing. For sure. And then, you know, the inevitable day comes that you're going to go, you know, leave or at least they got to leave, you know, they don't have to depend on kind of dad being there Kind of for the trials and tribulations and and those things adversity will make kids tougher That's just the bottom line. So this is a adversity and it's an adversity that kids, you know, they they it'll make them tougher make them stronger. Yes Agree next wish any good recommendations for cutting back on alcohol You know

Just straight up why would why would you cut back and not just stop? At this point in my life I don't I don't drink anymore and I know that some people have an alcohol problem and So I think trying to cut back if you have an alcohol problem isn't a realistic thing to do because you'll take that slippery slope and And just get drunk Yeah, so I think what you have to do is just stop and I know that and again, I I'm not I don't I don't have a good familiarization to know what it's like to be addicted to out Alcohol I didn't even I didn't even really like consciously. Oh, I'm gonna stop drinking now. I just stopped drinking because I was out of the Navy. I was working a bunch and carrying on and wasn't around those you know my bros anymore where we'd go out and have a beer and so if that's not happening then it's not happening and that's one thing I'll all say is I know that people that have alcohol issues addictions. They always say you got to change the people. places and things that you do so the people you hang around with that like to drink

you can't hang around with them the places that you go where everyone likes to drink you can't go to those places the things that you like to do that involve drinking you can't do those things so there you go I would say stop drinking and hey if you're an alcoholic you got to get medical supervision because that's actually you can die if you're an alcoholic and you stop drinking yeah so you have to you have to like go and get help but stop yeah a lot of those times those the people that far into alcoholism where they stop drinking and they die that's like usually they don't even want to stop drinking usually that's just how I'm drinking usually but I think I might have more

experience than this one than you but all those things and man that's like a really concise in in in it's that's a good way to put to put it like the people placing things right activities whatever but a big part of it, and I said this before, where a big part where I would stop drinking, it was way easier when I just understood what it was. You know, like understood, like, why am I just wanting to drink? And why is it that when I start drinking, like, it's kind of harder to stop, you know,

then maybe I don't know the next guy or whatever. And then when I, once I understood, like, what's happening physiologically or whatever, I came up with my own little strategy. And the big part of it was like, oh, yeah, like, my brain is like tricking me into thinking like yeah that you want this this thing or whatever that was like a major one and the other one was kind of has to do with the people placing things it was um where if i had a reason not to drink like if i had a workout that i really took seriously

the next day or if i was going to record or something to do something to do something where to be hung over or whatever would really mess me up um it'd be way easier you know so back like you know in high, not high school, but in college, like in athletics and stuff like that. You never really drink during the week because you have practiced the next day. You don't want to be hung over in practice, you know, so it'd be really easy. Oh, yeah, we're not drinking today kind of thing. So if you can kind of set up your life where you have like something important that you can kind of look forward to and really care about the outcome of something that's not necessarily mundane in your mind. Because a lot of times that all kind of, it's a slippery slope when you're like, yeah, it's important, but it's mundane in your life.

You'll be like let's see how I can endure it kind of hungover. It's kind of worth it. I'll pay the price now, you know, kind of thing. But yeah, if you can set up your life where you have something that you find, like, important to be functioning fully, that helps. Yeah, Jiu-Jitsu. Train J-Jitsu on Saturdays. Yeah. That affected me when I was in the teams and we'd go out and drinking on Friday.

And then when I started training J-J-Jitsu all the time, I didn't want to, I wanted to be good to go for J-Jitsu. So, yeah, I just, like, started to stop drinking on Friday nights. I would say this with Jiu-Jitsu. I would say compete in Jiu-Jitsu then. Because, and I don't know, people are different. You know, there's a spectrum, but to me, Jiu-Jitsu, I mean, I'll train hungover, Jiu-Jitsu, in fact, Jiu-Jitsu helps the hangover.

If you can drag yourself out of the house, Yeah. Which is actually isn't that hard once you do it once. If you go, if you're hung-up and you're like, oh man, I really don't feel like going to J-J-J-Zi right now. But you just do it. The first time you do it, that's the hardest time. Every other time you're like, yeah, I did this before.

This is easy. I'm not going to be suffering. You go, you know, depending on the level of hangover, you're going to suffer in jiu-jitsu, or maybe not after all you get used to it. I don't know, maybe I was training like at a higher level. And I mean like seriously, not trying to be like a jerk, but like I would, this is back when I was training with Fabio. And so Dean and I would show up when we trained for like three hours straight.

Yeah. And like hard. And so if you're going to come in and do four rounds, yeah, you're a little hungover. It's no big deal. But if you're going to come in and you're going to train for, you know, an hour worth of class, then you're going to roll hardcore for two hours, you're not going to, trust me, you're not going to want to be all hungover, dehydrated

and jacked up mentally. Yeah, I dig it. And if you're going to train fat hard, then, yeah, don't. It's going to be hard to drink and maintain that. Your typical person is not going to train that hard. I mean, yeah, if they're drinking too much. If you're a competitor, no, even people who don't drink, don't train that hard.

Typically, in my experience, I don't know. But if you're training for a tournament, it's going to take it way more seriously just kind of in the back of your mind, you know? It's not just like, oh, jihis the training. So again, I'm not saying, so that's not going to work if you're just practicing, so it won't work. I'm not saying that.

I'm saying people are different. And if I use myself as an example, like I could train, I could hang April. I was training with, like, when I'd go train like at autos or whatever with these crazy training sessions, yeah, I would go slightly hungover. Go Dean every Friday.

So, okay, look, Of course, I could probably train better if I didn't drink the night before, for sure. But I'm just saying as a catalyst for stopping drinking. That didn't help you. It didn't help me as much as maybe. Yeah. And it didn't even, it wasn't even like a catalyst to help me stop drinking. It was just the functionality of life.

Yes. Was, oh, I've got to do this in the morning. Cool. I'm not going to get all hammered tonight so I can do better. Yeah. As a human. Yeah. And that's really the format right there where you find something.

I mean, to me, you know, like it or not, like, Jiu-Jitsu, just the training, if I wasn't, if I was competing, oh, I'd easily stop drinking, easily. But just for the training, if I didn't have a competition or whatever, it wasn't, it wasn't, it didn't help as much as one might think. Sure. But if I had something like, you know, if we're recording or something, something who, who, that you would think, you might be able to even, it just depends on how important it is for you to be functioning at the best level you can, you know. If I get tapped out a few more times in J-Jitsu. It's kind of like, whatever. So it just depends on who you are, is what I'm saying. Either way.

Yeah, man, I think that helps. But that's going to be hard. Either way, if you don't have some kind of like format, scaffolding in your brain to kind of like a plan, you know, like a little strategy, to be like, yeah, I'm just going to drink less. Just kind of, I'm just going to drink less. Like it's pretty rare that that's going to, yeah, it's going to work. Yeah, that's why I cut back.

I say don't cut back. Just stop. Yeah. Jack. Next question. Communication is often used as an excuse, both under and over. Oh, under communication and over communication for why the direction isn't clear. Any suggestions on balancing comms communication up and down with the right level of detail?

Here's a jacked up answer. The answer to this question of how to balance comms is comms. You want to balance communications? You have to communicate. You have to understand, hey, do you guys know what's going on? You need to check and make sure that they know what's going on. If they know what's going on, great. If they don't know, then you didn't communicate with them enough.

If you spent too much time communicating and now they're looking at you with a blank stare like, hey, bro, we got this. Then you communicated too much. So, and ask them, hey, do you understand what's going on? Cool. And if not, do you understand why we're doing what we're doing? Cool. All right, good. I'm going to let you go do it now.

So the answer to making sure you're not communicating. Either too much or too little is communication. I hate to say that, but that's what it is There can be some of that can be nonverbal communication. You know, you can observe if you if you give your guys a task and then you go out and observe them and you see that they can execute it really well then you know that You've done a good job communicating it to them if you go out to observe them and they don't know what they're doing And they don't know what's going on then you realize how I didn't give them enough information. I need to communicate more So you don't have to necessarily ask them you can tell through observation and check on them and seeing where they're at and what they're doing if they actually understand what's going on so yeah

That's that's it pretty straightforward get your little feedback loop going Yeah, but it is kind of like and I'm gonna use the word again dance. It is kind of like a dance though it's a dichotomy Yes, you can do yes you can communicate too much and you can communicate too little and you have to find the balanced thing Because if you communicate too much people stop listening to right and then it's no longer communication at that point Because it's kind of like if you're sleeping and I'm like hey okay jaco telling you what's to do like you you can't hear me it's not going into your brain it kind of has to go in your brain what i'm saying you gotta catch it does you got to catch what i'm throwing and you know and vice versa if we're quote unquote communicating so yeah over to put quotes around communication it's just a word

all right well there you go but it and if if one of those even one of those things isn't happening we're technically we're not communicating so like the whole over communication thing that's like yeah someone talking too much and another guy stops listening are you over communicating so far in this I think you are. I'm just saying. Like how you say like feedback, you know, like that that's an important thing. Because if you're like blah blah blah blah and how you say the blank stare, communication is gone. Communication's not going on anymore.

You see this look on my face right now? Yeah, like the one that's a blank stare. No, no, you're giving me feedback, which is good. See what I'm saying? So now I'm clear, I'm clear that you want me to move it along. See what I'm saying? It's good communication on your part. Here's the thing with you and your blank stare in my experience, which I have a lot.

by the way your blank stare communicates way more than just like a blank stare for real Mike Sorelli would will tell you all about that like you'll you'll have a whole conversation with me and not even say one single word for real I know exactly what you're saying see like right now I know exactly what you're saying anyway next question that's exactly what I was saying actually like I said when taking ownership how can you prevent your boss thinking you're a complete screw up and stop it from escalating to a point where where he starts blaming you for things you're not actually at fault. So this is one of those catch 22 situations where you actually

don't think you're at fault. So when you actually don't think you're at fault, then you're thinking, oh, I'm just taking ownership so that that's like the cool thing to do. And that's what I'm trying to use this as to make, to improve my situation, right? I'm going to, quote, unquote, take ownership. And When you quote unquote take ownership, but you actually don't believe you're at fault, then you're not really taking ownership. So when you look around at your mission, at your task, at what you're being told to do and you say, oh, I've got to do this thing. Oh, it didn't go right. And I'm going to take ownership of it and get it fixed. If you're just saying that and you don't actually mean it, then your boss starts blaming you for it.

Well, you should feel that way. Because when your boss blames you for something, you know what you should be saying? Yeah, boss. I know I said that this was my responsibility and this is what I'm going to do to fix it You shouldn't when your boss starts blaming for you for things you shouldn't say well no actually that's not my area of responsibilities What you should say is oh yes boss like I just said this is my fault and here's what I'm gonna do to fix it That's what you do so you actually think about this When you're when you're the type of person that takes ownership of things

You actually can't get blamed for things you can't Blame me for things because I'm already volunteering and saying that this was my responsibility. I'm going to fix it So that's what you do. That's what you do you take ownership and you take real ownership, which means when there's a problem You look at it and say this is hey, this is my fault. Here's what I'm going to do to fix it. Yeah And when your boss says hey. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know boss. I know 100% and this is what I'm going to do to fix it and then you go fix it. Yeah, and the thing that I didn't know is I said this before to but I think it's easy to sort of forget when, especially if you're thinking like this, which is, which I dig, man, is the whole, what am I going to do to fix it? Because when you, when you like for real, take ownership, whatever, it's because, man, just like how you say, it's almost like what you just said where, where you say you can't blame me. You can't blame me.

Because I already took responsibility kind of thing. Because, and in a big way, it's not necessarily about blame. It's more about fixing problems that are going to come. Come up nothing's perfect, you know? So now it's like it's more of like a way of dealing with problems less than a whole blaming taking blame thing in culture in business in teams People blame each other. Yeah, that's what happens and if you're the person that says hey, you know what? This is actually my fault and this is what I'm gonna do to fix it. There you go. Yeah Then that blame you can say yeah blame me I'm yeah I'm the guy because that's the guy that made this mistake Yeah, yeah, yeah and then you can just focus on fixing the problem and you meant

The thing is the reason I bring it up is because it is easy to forget that part because that blame is so In the problem part yeah with extreme ownership I mean apparently obviously because it's like hey I took extreme ownership like why didn't he do now why are you saying it's my fault? Yeah, yeah That's not the main part the main part is like that's not the main part is like Like you got to fix it. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. All right, next question. I have two warrior kid daughters who are very much on the path with pretty much everything but snacking.

They're starting to put some weight on as a result despite tons of physical activity and good eating at meal time. How can I coach them in this area without being overbearing? I would say don't have snack food in your house. That's junk, which you probably do. Don't and yeah that's that's real simple what are they gonna do if there's no snack food in the house how are they gonna snack? Yeah, the answer is they're not because there's they can go out and eat grass From the yard if they're still hungry, but so that's that's one thing the other thing is you gotta be careful with with with kids and I'll say this with girls Especially you start throwing that like hey you need to watch your weight you can really mess with their body image so you got to be really careful about what you're doing with a kid with a with a little girl guess what

little girls little boys guess what they are when they're when they're little the little pudgy little creatures you know and sure there'll be some genetic kids that have 2% body fat and a 12 pack of abs when they're six years old but most kids are like little a little bit pudgy that's part of their prepping for their growth spurt yeah and if you're all freaked out about it you know just what you're gonna do is you're gonna put that in their head they're gonna start looking in the mirror and you don't want to do that to your kids So don't have any junk food snacks in the house.

Give them some milk, right? Give them some Warrior Kid milk because it tastes delicious. It is like a snack and it's good for them. And it'll be satiating. I know you don't like that word echo, but it'll satiate them and it'll make them feel full. So that's a good kind of snack food to have in the house. And if you're gonna have other snack food,

then make it beef jerky, make it some healthy, you know, some carrots, some celery, you know, make it some good healthy stuff. But yeah, like, worrying about your kids starting to put on some weight when they're, I don't know how old they are in this particular case, but just be careful. You don't want to freak your kids out

and get them with a really paranoid body image, especially girls. They're getting it from million different directions and you've got to be careful with it because that's a real, that can be turned into a real problem. And the thing that actually you clarified really good to me one day

where when you kind of implement change, you know, in a routine, Especially if snacking is kind of like a routine or whatever when you implement change like it's good there's gonna be some hiccups there You know like whether it be I don't know in this case like complaining like hey well you know you're you're saying hey don't keep snacks in the house So now there's no chocolate cover pretzels anymore you know like hey I remember the chocolate cover pretzels there right there in a little pantry right there now they're gone like what up I haven't seen them in days yeah you're like hey we're not doing the chocolate covered pretzels anymore yeah or whatever There's gonna be some blowback there especially from the little kids you know they can be like well dad you know there might be some complaining so I think if we go in or when we go in knowing those things that

helps a lot so you're kind of prepared for it you know you can kind of plan what you're gonna say right you're gonna handle it way too intense with this but there's no chocolate covered pretzels guess what they didn't have them at the store I'm not getting them right for us yeah I dig it but a lot of times when you have you know two girls or whoever you know it's good get a pull-up bar yeah but they're not get your kids on the pull-up bar train yeah but they're not gonna be like hey oh well no chocolate pretzels all all Just do pull-ups. It doesn't work like that with the little kids. You got it's not that big of a deal to take to pull a snack out of your house. Yes, I don't think it's especially if you get some beef jerky and you're like, oh, you know what? That's just bad for us and I don't want to eat it anymore. So I got some beef jerky here. It's really good. Yes, but to be ready. Seafood. Yes, but to be ready here. Yes, but to be ready. Yes, I was pounding some of that the other day with both my kids. They like it salty delicious. Anyway, what I'm saying is, what I'm saying is, they're saying. I'm

I'm not saying necessarily make it a huge deal. I'm just saying if you're ready for the blowback, you know? Because what if you're not ready you think that okay? I'll agree with you just to do we can move this conversation along in order to prep for if you stop the chocolate covered pretzels in your compound you don't really agree you can come up with a a plan of action a little plan of a plan of action and immediate action drill when that six year old goes dad where are the chocolate covered pretzels you have a very well rehearsed response you can do some role playing with your wife and you can go Yeah, see. I see what you're doing. Cool, man. I'm telling you this helps. This will help. Okay.

Because, you know, the poor kids, you care, you know, you care about the short term a little bit too, you know? Of course, the long term, you know, that's why you're doing the whole thing. But all you got to do is explain, hey, you know what? Hey, we're not doing that anymore because it's not good for us. Okay. Straight up. Cool.

There it is. That's a good point. Not a huge. Well, rehearsing. Anyway. Roll play with you. Your wife. Next question.

Why isn't MMA or Jiu-Jitsu a bigger component of law enforcement training? This seems to be a huge missed opportunity. Yeah, it certainly is a huge missed opportunity. I plead with all law enforcement personnel to train Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, MMA, wrestling, boxing, Muay Thai, as much as you possibly can. and I plead with law enforcement agencies of all types that I talk to to get these types of programs in your departments because there is no doubt that it will help you help your officers be better and more prepared to handle situations on the street. Just had a police officer coming here the other day that was just signing up and, you know, she just got done to the police academy. And I'm so thankful that she's here because I'm like yes go and start training

immediately and it will be so beneficial for you in your career in your life and one thing about all these things and any form of martial arts for like self-defense or self-defense situations or you know because that's sometimes what it turns into for a police officer they're no longer you know once you things things cross over from where they're on offense to where they're on defense and for a police officer this is a great example like this was a female and Hey, could a female 118 pound female police officer Take a guy that was drunk slightly drunk a wrestler Who's 240 pounds the answer is no

She's not gonna fare well in that situation, but if she knows a If whatever she knows if she knows if she's trained she might be able to prolong that conflict long enough for her backup to arrive She might be able to stay alive keep control of her gun whatever you know keep control of the situation long enough That she that she that she will get her back up there So that right there that's the same thing I tell Females that want self-defense it's like hey look I'm not saying you can't because you look at some of our female Jiu jitsu players they will choke I

out a dude that like straight up they will arm lock them like for real and 200 pound wrestler they'll put a guillotine on him and choke him put him sleep so that's that that can happen that's what someone that's really skilled to make up for their lack of strength and lack of size being a female but what if even if you're not that good but you can postpone you can prolong someone trying to grab you and take you somewhere someone's trying to do something to you you can prolong you can prolong it The longer you can delay the offense from taking place, the better chance you have of somebody else coming along or somebody noticing or that person just giving up because most, most criminals are, you know, weak-minded and they don't want that kind of resistance. Yeah.

So, yes, totally. You're asking why isn't it? There's a bunch of reasons why it isn't. And one of them, and I've talked about this before, but there was, there's been cases where people that were. not trained enough They were trained enough to be dangerous Where they've choked guys to death And that has happened

You crush someone's windpipe You can be screwing around And or you just Not screwing around But you can be you can be screwing around You could you and I could start wrestling around If you and I were white belts And we started going out at it really hard

There's a chance one of us could get The other one in a chokehold Had a couple drinks in us And next thing you know I put you to sleep Which is oh yeah I'm gonna put you to sleep Because sometimes you choke your friend. You're like, I'm going to put you to sleep.

Yeah. Well, if I'm drunk and you're drunk and I put you to sleep and I don't really know that you're asleep yet and I'm squeezing extra hard because I'm drunk, next thing you know, I look up and all of a sudden your hyoid bone has crushed your windpipe and you're now going to die. So that's happened in law enforcement. They've banned chokes, which is a horrible thing because choking is one of the best and most minimal forces to use to subdue someone. is to choke them even an arm lock is gonna break their arm it's gonna ruin their tendons It's gonna hurt them a choke doesn't even hurt someone it just puts them to sleep Yeah, it incapacities so but that's one of the reasons why they don't teach it as much The other reason is they don't give enough training to law enforcement officers and they need to

They train an absolutely Pathetic amount of time in what they call defensive tactics generally the police officers called defensive tactics which is them fighting and maintaining weapon retention and all that they train up a very small number of hours a year they measure the time that they train in in in a year in hours that's how little they train so my my my campaign I'd like to go forward with is I think that police officers should spend one fifth of their active duty time training one fifth of their time should be training that's the way should work and I don't know how I'm gonna start that ground wave but there's that's such a

solid idea that no one can argue against it there's not one single argument against every police officer spending one-fifth of their time training and and if you want to argue with me about that and the argument is well we won't have enough police officers out on the beat then and here's the question back at that would you rather have eight Highly qualified highly trained officers out on the beat or 10 Officers that were barely trained at all and the answer is so easy to that question So that's a bunch of things. I'll continue to push that as much as I can and I know a ton of law enforcement people listen to this and just you know I think that's a great idea to start pushing from the ground from the grassroots We want one fifth of our time training. It's gonna make us all better. It's gonna prevent think of all the time that's hours that are wasted in legal

actions after there's a bad shooting or an injury or something like that think of all the stuff that gets wasted there take the officers and train them properly that's what that's what needs to happen so hopefully it will and then what would you suggest that I mean I kind of obvious what you can say but suggest like you know police officers going and getting training on their own so like you know yes if you have to go get training on your own go get training on your own because most jiu jihitsu places they'll have a law enforcement like this kind of Yeah, some kind of deal. Yeah, actually this guy, you know, Craig, right, Hanami? Yeah. The guy from Hawaii. Okay, police officer up in Oregon, if I'm not mistaken, always doing jujitsu. Like, with his uniform on and you can look him up on Instagram. You can see all the stuff he does with jiu-jitsu, and he applies it to law enforcement.

Yeah, yeah. And it's like, man, it's such a clear demonstration of the benefits. And you know, whatever, everyone who trains, like, you know, it's like, man, it becomes really, after you train for a while, all this dealing with. other people in chaotic situations bro it's easy it's literally easy so man yeah watch Craig and his stuff and I don't and here's the thing

though I don't know how that works with like work and you know hey you're at risk of injury I don't know I don't know I don't know what the whole deal is but man the way I say it man trains or Craig's over there training all the time train and so man just yeah just train on your own until your situation arises with it Law enforcement. Yeah, well, hopefully they'll implement that sometime in the future, man.

Next question. Bow or not? Okay, in judici. He's three months in, professor, not bowing. I don't. Other practitioners bow. No one told me when in Rome versus I'm not in a herd. Respect to professor, mats, and practitioners. This is pretty simple question. Some people bow when they go on the mat. Some people bow to the professor. Some people don't. Don't I don't I just kind of do whatever and it doesn't really matter to me and there's a little bit of paranoia in the question Which I understand which is like hey Hey, when in Rome do is Romans do? But at the same time, you know, I'm gonna hold the line kind of on my personal value So it's like I'm not bowing right. That's not my gig or I it's respect you got about like there's both those extremes Yeah, and both of them can be articulated in a way that's fine and to me I'm just like whatever oh It looks like everyone's bound cool him about Not that big of a deal

I don't I don't freak out about it Yeah, it's not that big of a deal I think It to me to me the overall Arching principle of my actions Bowing or not bowing is more based on my overall Principle of not making a spectacle out of myself one way or the other Yeah, like I'm not here to like draw attention and be like Hey, I don't bow or hey this is jiu jiu jitzu you need to respect them out

I'm like over here just trying to train Yeah Yeah Not trying to make a big deal out of myself. Yeah. So if everyone's bowing, it's like, cool. No big deal, I get it. Or if no one's bowing and it's like, hey, no big deal.

Yeah. I guess people might be disappointed. They don't have some hard stance, right? Yeah. But I don't. Yeah. There's some things I don't worry about. That's one of them.

Yes. I believe that. Yeah. How about we just train? Yeah. Agree. And that'll sort itself out anyway because if you're at a school, because some schools sort of require it.

That's the protocol here. at the school. No big deal. But you can have that exact attitude. Be like, cool. That's what we're doing. That's what we're doing. Because some people, you bow on the mat, you bought off the mat.

At the beginning of class to the, you know, to the picture or whatever. At the end, like the whole deal. But same deal. It's like, bowing's not hard to do. It doesn't like, you know, affect your family life at home or nothing like that. It's just, just bowing. Same thing with not bowing doesn't affect your, you know, it's not hard to not bow. Now, I guess there's a line in either direction, right?

There, you know, where you could, you know, you could be telling me like okay when we bow you need to bow and you need to praise well yeah praise the praise instructor whoever it's like okay probably not I'm probably not gonna do that you know like we're not we're not we're not worshiping right yeah we're not bowing it's like okay a little sign of respect cool I got that but we're not going to turn a respect into a worship there's a line that that will not be crossed the other direction is like oh you know someone's teaching a class and I'm just gonna you know run my mouth and walk on the mat like it's

No big deal. No, like you're going to be respectful to the instructor, of course. So, I'm just going to find out a little balance there, balance those two dichotomies. So what if you go as a guest or whatever at another place and their, their protocol is, in your opinion, like, sort of crossed over to worship? I haven't really been to an academy where it crossed over to worship. But let's say it did, just a little bit. Or like, would you go, as a guest, do you just go through the motions out of respect for, you know? What I would probably do is, go through the motions but then do other actions that would indicate to everyone that I have a free mind and that I'm not down with what they just did type of

scenario like I wouldn't be obnoxious about it right but I'd be like oh you know what I'm gonna do is take off my ghee and sit on the mat right now like oh oh that's not a lot okay sorry cool oh my bad oh yeah yeah no big did they put it on like I you know cool whatever just kind of like we just indicate would you say at my academy like we don't care about these small things yeah maybe like I don't know if I do that because then you're just trying to do you trying to begin make a spectacle I'm not trying to make a spectacle man I'm just trying to go just trying to try to be you know just trying to get some

training in man to be honest with you I just want to train yeah so don't make a spectacle and get in the way in let that spectacle get in the way of your training yeah how often are we making I mean how often do people try and make spectacles out of themselves it's like people do that yeah and that's not cool like don't that don't be a spectacle just be you know I told a story before about the the when I went to a University of San Diego and there was a professor there that was like well she was an American but she was a Buddhist monk right you know so she had at some point converted to Buddhism and and she would shave her head and walk around in

the robes and stuff like that and I was like we know one of the tenets of you know being Buddhist is to like not make a spectacle of yourself and And yet here you are walking around a Western campus in a, you know, in a, in a, in a uniform with a shaved head that's not, that's not that you are making a spectacle of yourself. So I was just like, I would, I would think it would be more like the Buddha to just wear, you know, a pair of jeans and a t-shirt. Right. And just have like, whatever normal, just be a normal, just look as normal as possible. Yeah. There's a whole, like, there's a whole thing.

That's sort of my, that's sort of, I fall into a, I've followed. back on that you know like a lot yeah so because you'd think that she might argue well this is how us Buddhists like minimalize our whole efforts you have individuality or whatever right but at the end of the day you are yeah like when you're in Thailand which is awesome like the Buddhist monks like they're everywhere and that they're that's what they do you know and so they're they're not making a spectacle of themselves at all and they come around and get rice in the morning it's very cool it's a very cool culture But if you're in a culture of a Southern California university, there's no other Buddhist monks that are walking around.

So you're kind of, hey, maybe I'm wrong, you know. I'm not trying to disparage, you know, this individual. I'm just saying from my perspective, I was like, hmm, if you really want to have the, the low profile and not bring attention to yourself and give up, you know, give up the trappings of ego. Right? You want to give up the trappings of ego then you don't want people to notice you If you don't want people to notice you you dress like a gray man you just like kind of normal Yeah, you know forgettable yeah, yeah So anyways not trying to get like deep into the religious aspect of Jiu Jitsu and

Robs sure, but that's just kind of my opinion I dig it Alright next wish Did you ever have CCT Did you ever have a CCT attached to your unit? And if yes, I was having them alongside and what advantages did they bring to the battlefield? So CCT is an Air Force Combat Controller and they're special operations guys. They're awesome guys. They go through really hardcore training.

And I didn't really, I worked with them occasionally not very directly on a couple occasions. They were great guys. but I never worked with them enough to be talking about them all the time because I just didn't have that experience. You know, I don't talk about bull riders either because I don't know many of them. You know, so it's just that, but they're great guys. I know they have an awesome reputation,

and my friends that have worked with them loved to work with them. If there was a guy that was, I've had a couple guys kind of heard names of. So as far as coming on the podcast, yeah, of course I've won on the podcast of without question, no problem. And what we did what we had was we had Anglico which was Dave Burke and his guys they were the guys that were doing the CCT type mission for us when we were in Ramadi So that's one of the reasons why we didn't work with them very much on that deployment the previous deployment We had my own I had my own JTAC and that's who we work with so just just a just didn't have that opportunity So they're awesome guys though Next question

Jocko currently in a busy and stressed place in life And keep looking back at what could have been. How do you bounce back to doing you and not getting in your own head? Appreciate what you and I could do. Thank you both. And God bless. All right. You know, we can look back all day long at what could have been and it doesn't matter.

Well, the only thing that matters from the past is what you learn from it. So let's learn from it and look at the future. And one thing I'll say is, it's like this saying about when's a good time to plant a tree. Do you know when the best time to plant a tree? the best time to plant a tree is right now either 22 years ago or right now right like that's look you didn't do it then so guess what you can do you do it now when's the best time to start a savings account same deal yeah it's the same thing like i you know 20 years ago or right now so if you sit there and say oh well i could have done if i wish i would have done this years ago i wish it

well guess what you look up at a year and you don't have that little sapling now you could have a little Saffling right you have nothing so it's not that big of a deal day hey you you went through life you made some you wasted some time good you didn't waste it completely first of all you learned from it you got experience you had fun you did other things you you learned about you learned about relationships because some girl dumped you and you realize that you can't over commit to a to a liar you know you like you learn these things right so the just because things were negative experiences in the past and they didn't feel good to go through doesn't mean that they were

were all bad because you still took something away from it and you learned from it so that's part one part two is what are you gonna do plan a tree today that's what you're gonna do plan a tree today and start to nourish that tree and take the lessons that you learned to sprinkle on that tree and feed that tree so it can grow fast that tree that you plant today should be able to grow faster than the one you would have planted 20 years ago because you have the knowledge on how to on how to nourish that tree and feed that tree so can grow quicker so just get on the path.

Don't play around with what's going on in the past. Learn from it. Move on. Yeah, man, that goes along with how, like, that little speech. It wasn't a speech, but a little talk you had with me about, you know, you're going to play the long game or whatever. And kind of in this case, same deal where it's going to, more so than even play that. You are playing the long game, but keep the long game in mind because that's what, you know,

those thoughts like, dang, I should have went to college or I should have, shouldn't have went to college or I don't know, whatever. This whole what could have been kind of deal. that's like your mind saying like right now if I would have done that back then right now I would have this and that's the part that kind of messes like jams you up mentally right where you're like man I could have this right now so when you think so you know you so as a result typically in my experience anyway which is almost none but typically I think like wait I because what I think of what could have been because of this thing that I kind of want right now I don't want a seed right now I want what I could Could a hat. That's what I want. You can't have that. So plant the seed. Yeah. So, but mentally, like, kind of emotionally or mentally, that's not where your mind is. Your mind isn't like, hey, I can't have that. I accept that.

And so let's think of the future now. Your mind doesn't do that. It's more like hung up on that, right? What you don't have right now, that empty void that you have. You don't want to fill that void with a seed. A seed doesn't do nothing for me. Not even a sapling. That doesn't. A full grown tree. That's what I want right now. what I could have had. Mm-hmm. So how is a seed the problem or the solution to my problem? But if you're looking at the big picture, the long game, as you so eloquently put it that day,

brother, the seed is nothing but a tree at a different time. That's really what it is, you see what I'm saying? So that is a solution. See what I'm saying? And then- That might be the most philosophically bold and unbounded statement you've made on this. The seed is nothing but a tree at a different time. Thanks, man.

I like how you did that. Good job. It's all been worth it. The pain and suffering with listening has finally paid off. Good. Cool, man. Thank you. Anyway, so yeah, I think if, like, you can't keep that long game in mind, that's helped

me, like, a lot with just even, like, small little things. You know, stuff is like, I'm uncomfortable. I don't want to do this right now. But, you know, this exact thought, like, man, I'm looking for. forward to the day that I'm not I'm thinking the opposite of what could have been I'm think now I'm thinking sure I'm so glad I planted that seed last year or whatever you know so you can look at the long game and kind of fulfill all that stuff sure anyway next question hi jaco and echo my name's spelled wrong by the way here but hi jaco

and echo quick question I really get I get really bad anxiety doing almost everything for example when talking to people I always feel like as if I'm going to say something stupid and this makes me start to stutter and lose my train of thought and I just go blank It's sound that one first of all you got to condition yourself. You know you got to practice you got to rehearse Actually first of all I would say Gil get some speech therapy for someone to help you out because that will that will be beneficial to you Getting someone that's a professional to to to come in and say like okay here's the drills that we're gonna do My buddy that drums in my band he there's drumming drills that you can do so you can get your left hand to do something different

than your left foot and your right hand to do something. There's drills that you can do to overcome. Because if you're like me, you're not a drummer, my right hand and right foot are gonna do the same thing at the same time. My left hand and my left foot are gonna do the same thing at the same time. But there's drills that you can do to overcome that.

And there's drills that you can do with speech so you can practice and you rehearse and you think about it, then you'll get better at it. And the cool thing is like once you start to build some confidence, then you get more and more confident and you'll get better and better it. The other thing I would say is talk about things that you know, right? Don't try and explain things that you don't know. Don't try and try and come up with some theory that you don't understand and try and just roll it out off the tip of your tongue because you don't know it. So just when that's happening, just sit back and kind of formulate your thoughts and think, okay, of all the things I'm thinking right now, what do I actually kind of have a grip on?

Maybe it's a question sometimes forming something in a question will make it easier for you to state it because you're saying hey I got a question and now you're not putting pressure on yourself to come up with this perfect yarn of why this theory that you have instead you pose something as a question that'll take some pressure off you and talk about things that you know and if you don't know it then ask a question about it and that'll get you more comfortable and you keep talking and keep trying and over time you'll get better and better at it but you have to you have to not jump in like you're Don't go and volunteer to give the speech at the local club, right? Yeah, no volunteer to when people are having a conversation say hey, can I ask a question about this? Start with that. That's like the easiest entry point. No one's expecting you to say anything brilliant when you ask a question They're just expecting you to ask a question. Yeah, so it's not that big of a deal and then just build on that man. It's exposure therapy Yeah, exposure therapy. That's good Next question when you transitioned from E to an O

how did your approach working with with men you previously served with as enlisted now that you were an officer this is such an easy question because the bottom line is when I transferred from being an enlisted guy to being an officer I didn't change anything in the way that I treated everyone I treated people the same and when I was a young enlisted guy or a senior

enlisted guy or more senior I was never like a I would I only made it to E5 before I went officer but when I was in my third platoon with other guys that were not in their third platoon I treat people like hey man with you know hey this is what we're gonna do this is how we're gonna make it happen now I got a caveat that for the guys that were in platoons with me when I was in the E5 mafia hey I was a little crazy with the hazing and like it sucked to be a new guy in one of my platoons and I get that but as you guys told me you appreciated it once you got a little you know once you saw the big picture there was appreciation but no from a from an actual working relationship

hey you know what are you gonna do you're gonna stay humble you're treat people with respect regardless if you're above them or a blow them in the chain of command there's this saying that I didn't talk about when we had Derek Herrera on and it's it's pulled from that speech by Jacqueline by gunnery sergeant Jacqueline He says at the end of the speech he says not above you not below you always beside you So think about that from a leadership perspective not above you not below you always beside you So that's if you have that attitude look I'm not above when I'm not above you and I'm not below you Like we're equals and we're trying to figure out how to best solve this problem

And if you treat people like that regardless if you're above them or below them in the chain of command You'll treat them with respect and humility you'll be fine And that's what I did. I didn't treat anybody any different and I mean I had I had guys that worked for that worked for me that had been my Peers or that I had worked for before when I when I went through that transition and it was like no factor It was literally no factor because these guys were you know when we were friends we worked together We focused on getting the job done when they were above me in the chain of command? What did I do? I worked hard and focused on getting the job done when they were below me in the chain of command Oh no. It's like hey they're working hard Did they become less of a person? Did I become more of a person? No

No I put a different rank on my sleeve What does that mean? Nothing. It doesn't mean it but it means yeah, what does it mean? It means that I'm gonna be given this brief instead of some other guy cool no big deal you know what? Why don't you give the brief? I'm fine with that So yeah Respect humility and Never above you never below you always beside you. It's a good little thing to think about there again Did you ever have the situations where you're throwing darts at the guys back at the bar you know for your hazing situation? No No sure

We did some pretty we did some pretty rough hazing though For sure you know lots of uh, yeah, it was it was not fun it wasn't fun It wasn't fun you know and It was part of the ritual back in the day. It's not as much as it any as it is not as much as that anymore But you know guess what guys are fighting a war now. Yeah, so I'm not like oh those guys don't have it or it's hard Guess what when I got when I was in the teams when I first got to the teams it was like oh cool Oh you're in the teams. Yeah you're gonna get hazed ooh guess what these guys are gonna get nowadays They're gonna get shot at. They're gonna get you know hit with IEDs

So Not that big of a deal. It's just a little bit of a culture change and that's the way it is Next question Dichotomy of leadership has some great principles What is an appropriate philosophy concerning time to train versus manage out a direct report? when they have been in the role for over a year. Yeah, this changes from industry to industry to spend depending on the situation that you're in.

And sometimes you don't have, you have a really tight timeline to get people up to speed. And if they don't get up to speed, you gotta get rid of them or otherwise it's gonna cost the team or it's gonna cost the company money. So how long are you gonna give them? You're gonna give them as much time as you think you can give them

before they start detracting from the team. You're also gonna make sure that you're not investing so much time into one person to try and get them up to speed that you're ignoring everyone else and now it's having a negative impact on the team. So you just got to look at the timing. Again, I worked with construction companies

where if they don't get a job done on time, it'll cost them $60,000 a day. They don't play around. Like they need someone that's going to be able to get the job done. You get some sales organization that's commission only, and there's somebody that's taking a while

to get up to speed. They don't really care. It's not costing the company anything. So you've got to figure out in your industry how much time that looks like and then you've got to set the expectations clearly. And once you've done that, you say,

Okay, listen, bud, I've been working with you for this amount of time. Here's where I want you to be at this date if you don't get there We're gonna move you out man. That's the way it is pretty straightforward Next question I have to coexist at times with an individual who knows I'm ex-army He purposely makes Pro Taliban quips to piss me off as I'm in a position I can't do much about it His intent to anger works but I don't show it. What's some advice?

Yeah, I mean, this guy's just, uh, just, I would just completely ignore him, you know, and I actually, you know, hey, that's funny, man, cool. He's obviously trying to get under your skin and just don't let him get under your skin. That's just all there is to it. Um, this person is worthless and just ignore him. I mean, you could go to the extreme of taking, like, in Mark's mission where Mark actually gets in on the joke. Yeah. You know and if you want it you know but then

You might be crossing again. I don't know the specifics of the situation Yeah, because there's times where that's not like I wouldn't do that in certain situations like I got like no I'll ignore you, but I'm not gonna play along with this joke the way you're saying it But there's times where I'd be like oh yeah guess what? You know I might play along with a joke just to defuse it Yeah again if this might be a this might be a a guy that doesn't deserve that But yeah ignore it man go don't even worry about this idiot that's that's my advice yeah that ignore thing you do that super good where it's literally like you feel like you don't you got no feedback from my little joke like if I make a

joke to you or something and it's almost like did he not hear my joke because he just sort of moved on you know kind of thing and it's really compelling me to like not tell that joke anymore you know kind of thing and I'm assuming it works really good actually And he actually did have an example like the guy would say hey you're aiding the Taliban with this with the check this week like I don't know if the check is junk or this week's check Anyway yeah so it seems like he's trying to be funny you know like now he's not trying to be a dick to the guy well he says he's purposely Trying to piss him off and so for me if you're purposely trying to piss me off pit me getting pissed off is you running that's the payoff I'm not gonna let that happen yeah I'm gonna win how am I gonna win by not getting pissed off yeah and you're little and you're and you're Ignore tactic that you do in real life by the way. Yeah and I'm not saying like the ignore where you like

Like a little kid ignores like a little kid just ignore them and they like to turn their back? No, it's like Oh yeah, you know just like just like meaningless like your your little quips Literally mean nothing to me whatsoever. Yeah, and that's a skill too which apparently you've honed over the years because it is and you got to you can't oversell it. You can't oversell ignoring somebody. Otherwise, you're like, uh, you're not ignoring. I got the payoff. So you can't oversell it. And, you know, underselling ignoring means like you're not really ignoring, I guess. But if you can nail it, if you can nail it like literally your joke or your comments or whatever are falling on deaf ears, you know, and they don't like affect me at all. If you can nail that, yeah, I would say that that would compel a normal person

or this kind of person, whatever, to stop. It were. I think that works with everybody even little kids once again you don't make a spectacle out of yourself Yeah, yeah yeah let it roll like you're not making a spectacle of like I'm ignoring you Right don't make a spectacle of like hey shut up yeah, you just play in the metal and you just go through The because because there's things in life that don't matter yeah I'm not saying that you that there's that there's things that you don't react to because there certainly are And I'm not saying that you want to be this neutral person through for all things but there's things that just don't matter yeah there's things that just they just don't matter and this is one of them this guy doesn't matter what is who is this guy

he doesn't matter so don't put any effort into him just stay neutral oh give him a smile and a nod and keep doing what you're doing another tip two for this don't tell other people like oh that guy's pissing me off with that man you forgot about that never totally just forgot about it yeah never tell anyone when something pisses you off yeah never You know that way because if you do and then you're you're nailing the ignore tactic You're nailing oh yeah delivering it perfectly and then and then you told you told your fran or whatever like Hey so that guy knows that oh he's just ignoring me but I really pisses him off you know so he'll just keep doing it And and here's the thing too about playing the game like um or or going along with the joke like oh yeah that's funny

You just basically you kind of involve yourself in the game. Yeah, yeah he's not getting the payoff necessarily but he'll just change his tactic because you're still in the game with him. You want to get out of the game. That's why in that particular situation, you know, Mark and Mark's mission was trying to befriend. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, you're right. So that's a different situation. He's not just trying to diffuse or he's trying to actually befriend him. And so then he needed to make a connection. So that's the clear difference. If this guy was like a coworker or a boss or a subordinate that he was trying to build a relationship

with, then I might take a little stuff. You know and again am I gonna joke about somebody being pro Taliban? I'm not Probably joking about the Taliban very much Probably not no, yeah Cool next question is it better to remain single if you have a dangerous or demanding career in order to protect your family from Unintended negative consequences or find a partner willing to embrace the risk and raise warrior kids together Hey man, it's hard to live the life and it's a lot harder on your family than it is on you because you'll be over getting after it and your family will be at home not knowing what's going on with you So it's hard, but I mean obviously

Having kids and raising a little warrior kids with a with a partner that's in the game is is awesome It's hard to find someone to get married to that's that good to go in the game especially if they're real young so I got real lucky I married a girl that kind of got it we'll say and and I said this when I was on Ben Shapiro's show that the quality that she had and still has that I think is is the most important is emotional independence and I don't even know if that's a thing I don't know if I just made that up but that's trying to describe that you know my wife doesn't need the the hey honey from me she doesn't need like a hey how's everything going she doesn't

need that for me she's fine she's emotionally independent and and of course she's independent in the way that she can take care of whatever the kids and the puking kids and the kids diapers and the kids with and the broken water heater and the flat tire on the cause you can handle all that stuff too when I was gone a lot but most important is she could she she she didn't need the constant like emotional recharge from me because she's a independent stable human being of her own so I think that's the kind of thing you've got to look for now unfortunately a lot of times dudes are attracted to the person that's emotionally dependent on them because it makes the

it's a little ego boost it makes them feel good like oh she needs me around and And it's like that's so you got to watch out for that you got to find someone that kind of has their own thing going on Which also has to be balanced because if you find a female that is true has too much independence Then guess what she's gonna be around you come home Yeah, yeah yeah, you're gonna find somebody else so you gotta find it that balance as well But if you can find that that right person don't rush into it take your time and and and and she's in the game then yeah man get after it I'm gonna say that's a good question. Yeah, it is.

And you know, a lot of times guys, guys, and here's another, like, this is just an, it's an answer that's not really an answer and yet it's fully an answer. Hey, I'm married and I'm thinking about going the SEAL teams. What will this do to my marriage? It's like, oh, there's a 50% chance your marriage is going to get destroyed because you're going to be gone all the time. Your wife is going to be jealous of the teams. She's going to be jealous of the travel. She's gonna be pissed that you're not home. She's gonna be pissed that when you get home you're going to the bar with your boys instead of going to the recital

For the daughter like that's that's a reality So yeah, I can't recommend it at the same time if you're squared away and you have a good relationship Yeah, it'll be awesome. It'll be awesome, but it's it's a really hard like when guys when I meet a guy that's 19 years old 20 years old and he says yeah, you know I'm I'm going to buds and I'm getting made This summer before I go straight up. That's a bad idea. That's a bad idea. Don't do that if you're in that situation Don't do that because if you are if you have a great relationship with that person say look. I'm gonna go through buds. I'm gonna be focused on that It's gonna take me some time. I'm gonna show up at a team. I'm gonna go on deployment. I'm gonna come home. It's gonna take about three years for all this to happen when we get done with all that We'll get married because we are so strong and so

that we can get through three years without, you know, being married. We cool? Let's see what kind of response you get from that. Yeah. Because it's noncommittal, right? Because it's showing the female, hey, I'm noncommittal. When actually you're saying, listen, it's not that I'm noncommittal. I don't even know what holds in the future.

I don't know what the future holds for me. It's going to be crazy. I don't know what's going to happen. I don't want to drag you through a bunch of crap. Let's just pause on moving forward with the marriage part. And once we get done with that, you know, give me, give me two years, give me three years and then you can see if you still want to be around you you think you want to be around right now. You haven't had a you haven't had a dude that's going on deployment for seven months after he gets done with a one year workup where I was gone in 12 months. I was gone nine months. That's a whole other thing. You you may not want to be in that situation. You know, ma'am. So if you're in that situation, yeah, don't get married. And do people pull it off sometimes?

Yeah. Flynn Cochran got married, I think, before Buds. Yeah, yeah. And so that's one guy. But it's a rare occasion. And most of the time it doesn't work out as well as Flynn. And it worked out for Flint. Why did it work out for Flynn?

One of the reasons, he married a girl that is emotionally independent and can do own thing and wasn't waiting on you know that that that that emotional boost yeah you know so there you go it's it and and here's the the final answer is like you know what the right answer is you actually know it so many questions you actually know the answer to yeah you want reinforcement of them and but but the only person that can answer these questions is you the person you got to listen to what I'm saying sure Yeah, but you got to look at your future spouse and be like or potential spouse You're the one that knows mm-hmm now what's hard is guys especially guys

They go head over heels for females yeah they go crazy They go nuts they don't even see straight yeah you can't I had guys in seal Paltunes where I was like listen Hey bro this girl that you're involved with right now Is going to ruin your life. I want to tell you that. Let me tell you what she's done so far You're not married yet. I know you want to get married in two weeks So far she stole your credit card She's called the command four times to request to talk to the master chief about your orders This girl's a nightmare. Please do not marry her and guys are like bro, you don't understand

And that's the way guys do it? And how do I know that? Because I was the same idiot when when you're 15 years years old oh my guys the only no it's like no that's not the only girl it's not there's more so just calm down if you can if you if the marriage is meant to be let it be in a year let it happen a year don't be getting married in three months don't be getting married in two months don't don't get married in six months get married in a year get married in a year and a half do me a favor yourself a favor do us do us all the favor you all the favor you that there you go sounds like sound advice thank you next question could you talk about how you read a book

to get so much out of it that you do oh yeah here's what I do when I read a book I read the book as I'm reading the book I highlight the important parts of the book then I go back through and reread what I highlight and pull out the pre the the the creme de la creme of the information another small thing if you're reading a book with lots of characters write down the characters and kind of like give me description so you can refer back to him when they show back up again because sometimes I'll lose track of characters if it's a complex book and you just don't you just don't know So that's what I do I read slowly actually it's horrible I wish I read faster I read at the speed that I talk just about I read a little bit faster but it's just about the speed that I talk And I read every single word and when I will say this when I do read a book slowly and like I do read I remember a lot from the book which is cool

but read it slowly highlight it take notes there you go makes sense next question what was plan B if you rang the bell there was no I wasn't gonna ring the bell it wasn't gonna happen it seriously wasn't gonna happen and but well here's what could have happened injury you can get injured in buds yeah and you some injuries are more preventative like shin splints if you train properly beforehand you probably beforehand you probably It's shin splints, but if you're doing a rock portage and you there's big waves and you're bringing a boat a Zodiac boat or a IBS boat up the rocks in big waves you can just get your knee broke like it can happen

So then what would happen if I would have gotten I would have you know gone to the fleet healed up come back So I would have done yeah try again. It's a that's a that's one of the scariest things about Buds from a guy that like the guys that I know that were like yeah, We're never gonna quit, but they there's a possibility you're gonna get injured. Yeah, can you get rolled, they call it rolled, right? Yeah, you get rolled back. What about, like even if you get sick, right? Like a doctor can be like, hey, you can't continue.

Yep, that can happen. That happens to guys in hell week, they'll get pneumonia. Oh yeah, man. And they're just, they can't, like they're not quitting. Yeah. But they're coughing up blood. They're spitting blood out of their mouth and they're like, and the doctor's like, hey, are you okay? But I'm fine

You know And so they just have to They just have to Get rolled back Yeah, it happens There's very few people That don't get rolled back Well, yeah, it's a pretty small number

That don't get rolled back at all Really? Yeah Like for medical Medical failure If you fail something You can get rolled back If you fail a run

I forget, I don't know what it is right now When I went through If you failed to run Okay, you got to write up If you failed another run You got rolled back Dang So you've got to do the whole thing

You gotta do the whole thing again. Yeah. For one run. Not just the run. You gotta do everything again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The whole thing. No, it's a nightmare.

So I failed. A run. Yeah. A swim. A obstacle course. Like, and then you just freaked out. I was so paranoid. I think you could actually, when I went through, you could fail one per phase.

So there was three phases. Yeah. First phase, second phase and third phase. You could fail. like one of each thing per phase which is it sounds really lenient yeah but dang you're doing because you're doing a timed run every week yeah a timed run every week yeah and then you're doing a million they just call them conditioning runs which is the most understated name for a run ever because what they really were is just the most grueling as fast as you could go through the soft sand runs

like for how for mouth no no No, dude. No. And not only that, you ran to, you ran to breakfast and back. Then you ran to lunch and back, and you ran to dinner and back. And each one of those runs was one mile. So there's six miles before you ran anywhere. Before you conditioning run and your timed run, you're doing a six-mile run every day. Just, that's awesome.

That's awesome. And that's not a sprint. Sometimes you have to run fast. Sometimes you run slow. But it's just like a lot of times just a little, you know, typical military shuffle. Yeah, yeah. I So yeah

But I wasn't I'm in No man Next question What actual strategy Should a Jiu-Jitsu white belt Employed during a role Other than relax

Tap early tap off and etc Well those are the key points But the other thing is I would say Try and do moves that you've actually learned Instead of Instead of doing something that you That you Just like you're spazzing out

Trying to do some random thing Actually do something that you know And if you get in a situation That you don't know what to do Remember the situation you were in said you can ask an instructor. Hey, here's where I was. I didn't know what do. Can you please help me? Yeah. Simple. Pretty straightforward. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Next question. If a coworker were attempting to bully, intimidate, or make you generally miserable, do you go with it?

Would you make a mention of your jiu-jitsu knowledge or keep it a surprise? I like that question. Yeah, I would keep it. I'm I keep everything a surprise. I'm, I keep everything a surprise. Right the mystique I just keep everything a surprise because I'm not here like Hey, you know are you you better back off you know like what is that instead you're just like hey man All good all good You know and then let that guy find out for himself that you know the hard way yeah either the hard way or someone will be like hey man you know that guy that you keep messing with That guy trains jihitsu every day. He's gonna choke you out and put you to sleep

And then guess what he's gonna do he's gonna get mouth because he's already been he's already been he's already been testing you and he's like oh he's kind of a wimp so yeah I mean there's no like is there even a cool way you can say I trained jiu jitsu no because even if you pull it off externally like internally you're like you know who said it cool gotta who john cloud van dam hoiler gracie oh yeah hoiler gracie I dig it was surfing yeah and I think kid Pallegro told me this story but it might have been hoiler that told me this he was surfing and somebody wanted to you know give him some beef get nuts you wanted somebody wanted like you know hey what are you doing out here type of thing and he was like you know he did what I would do it's you know he

just kept surfing kind of and then it's the person started talking more and then he started running his mouth and then Hoyler said something like um hey you like to surf I like to fight if you want to fight we can do that And I thought that was a pretty cool way of saying it. He told that story. I think I was, unless he told another time to you, at Brian Sargent's promotion to Black Belt.

Oh, really? I think Kid Polygar was here too. I forget. But yes, he told me that story. To like the group? He told it to me. And I thought you were there. Did I say it right?

Yeah. He was, yeah, I thought there was like kind of more. He actually said it cooler than that. Yeah, yeah. He said it cooler than that. He said it some way that was like, yeah, Listen, you like to fight you like to serve for your life. I fight for my life. Yeah, for my life. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you serve for a living. I fight for a living. It was something even more than what I said, but it was good. Yeah, we can fight or we can serve. Yeah, it was the kind of thing where you're like, if you were that guy, you think, you know, yeah, maybe I'll not do this whole thing right now. I remember thinking the same thing as you like, that was a really dope way to say it, you know? Yeah, yeah. Plus, like, you know that that guy obviously he didn't know who that was. I was.

I'm assuming which would be kind of crazy if he didn't or if he did know who he was but and then what if hypothetically later he found out like who that was and you'd be like occasionally I've had people say things like uh like they kind of know so they'll say like oh you know let's go you know something like that yeah and it's like yeah man cool that's always my answer's like oh awesome yeah cool but you want to go now and they're always like oh no no no just kidding yeah cool all right next question What do you typically wear when you meet the bosses of companies and why? Oh, hey man, if you're working with echelon front then Pretty much what we all wear is the the EF polo The echelon front a polo shirt and you know we we we we we called the what we wear business tactical

Yeah, yeah just polo shirt and a pair of pants and why the question is why well that's just because it's a it's a it's a it's a it's the same kind of thing I've been talking about just sort of a normal thing to wear right Don't really travel as much as I travel as little as possible I can with a full suit Yeah, and yeah, so just comfort and functionality Yeah, there's the answer yeah and of course you don't show up in your shorts yeah, no no We're professional and rash car yeah the remember he used to he used to wear a suit right like back in that Yeah, I mean and I still wear it will wear a suit sometimes but usually not man usually not you know even um usually people people know who we are now

yeah and so if we're going to show up they realize what they're getting which is like hey these guys are these guys are going to come in and talk to us and they know what the deal is yeah there's all the footage of us on on the videos and stuff we're wearing kind of the eF uniform so business tactical get some all right next question and I guess there is a there is a small bit of like hey were not we're not standard business people you know what I mean yeah that makes it's like hey like you're in a room with people with a bunch of suits on and they're like oh who's presenting oh it's that guy over there because he's wearing something different okay we get it you know what I mean yeah just a little identifier

echelon front yeah on the shirt yeah all good good how do you grow better faster stronger with your romantic partner over time without being a brute I just I don't even I just kind of had to put this question in here because it was I don't really understand I mean just because you're bigger and faster and stronger doesn't mean you're a brute right what what is that I don't how do you overcome that be nice to your You know your girlfriend whoa your wife um what's the your romantic part like what does that mean though like with if if you're working out with your romantic partner or like No no no I think you're just like you're getting bigger and faster and stronger and therefore you start treating your girlfriend like Crap though like no it's like no And actually you'll probably be nicer because you're bigger and faster and stronger so it's kind of a non-question I guess

But I just thought it was funny yeah it is because you think you think hey I'm gonna I'm gonna do squats today Then I'm just gonna go yell at my woman Being a bru well the being a brute that part I can I could see that you know because you know like let's say like you gained 20 pounds 30 pounds Let's just say And it's like all muscle You're super strong now

You know I don't know And you know you come home You're just more of a Like the stuff that you do You know You're vacuuming You know like you're just way more

Brutish you are Yeah so I don't know Vacuum a hardware You got a vacuum with more finesse You gotta focus on the finesse part of it No Otherwise you're gonna be all big fast and strong That

The And I I think I understand the question but here's a here's a tip that I haven't been married forever but significantly long here's what I found out like a lot of stuff like as a guy you think like hey I'm not really going to do that because like that's not important you know like you have a set of things that you think are important and they're based on certain ways of thinking and the girl's going to have things she thinks is important and in my experience which I from what I

understand is very common that the things that some girls think are important, they can't really put their finger on it or why they feel important or whatever, but they just do, you know? And the guy will be like, hey, that's not important. You can't even explain why it's important. Therefore, you know, I win the whole importance, significance argument, right? So at the end of the day, they're not going to do these things, just little things, you know. Show me that you care, like these sensitive things, things that go against. being faster, stronger, more brutish.

But if you can keep in mind that little things, even if you don't think they're significant, actually do make your romantic partner happy. And if you can consistently maintain that regardless of how big, fast, or strong you get, that'll help. She's going to embrace your bigness, fastness, and strongness. Take it from me, I know.

Cool. next question in cooperation and negotiation is there a tell to know when you're breaking your personal code and compromising too much is is it a gut check or is it gut check or logical this is a weird one there's a kind of a confusing question so I just kind of kind of answer it to the best of my ability well the biggest thing I notice when I'm when I'm interacting with other people the biggest thing that I pay attention to is am I paying it am do I care about this particular thing because of me or because of it's going to help the team yeah and if you can get through that if you if you really just say to yourself hey am I doing this

because I'm going to help the team or am I am I doing this because it's about me if you pay attention of those things and I'm not saying that every time that you say hey you know what I need to take care of me a little bit because you have to remember that you have your strategic goals too right but most of the time the success of the team is going to help your strategic goals now so for me my constant thing is hey why am I why why why does this concern me does it concern me it's basically does this concern me because my ego or not yeah and if it doesn't concern me because my ego then it concerns me because it's not gonna benefit the team so let's help the team so that's that's what I that's what I look at the most when I'm negotiating when

I'm cooperating you know if if if you and I were negotiating a deal right and I was gonna buy a car from you and I was like you know you want to sell it for me to for 10 grand and I want to get it for nine how much of it and you're like okay you know what jaco I I got it on the lot for for 8800 can you give me four hundred dollars over the what I paid for it and give me 9200 or whatever and I'm like no I'll only how much of that is me just it's just my ego I just want to win the ego fight against you and how much of it is me like hey that's actually a pretty good deal and and why not take care of this guy because I don't know I don't really

know you but hey man maybe we'll buy it something else in the future maybe I'll you'll you'll You know what I mean? So am I trying, is it my ego? Or is it just a bad deal? If you're like, hey, nope, it's 11,000. And I'm like, okay, you know what? I'm not going to pay that. So it's not my ego.

That's just not a good deal. At 10 grand, it's not a great deal. At 9,200, it's a pretty damn good deal for me. And it's you're going to make some money. And I'm happy that you're going to make some money. Cool. You know what? Let's shake hands.

Let's make a deal. There's times where this is the point. There's times where my ego, I'll be like, no. I don't care I don't care if you're only gonna make 200 bucks that's that's your problem You shouldn't have paid so much when in my heart I know like hey that's actually a good deal I'm getting a really good deal but my ego is not letting me have closed closed it That can be a fact that can be a problem so when I'm negotiating with someone and it's not a good deal They're not gonna get me to do what they want me to do it's just not gonna happen if it's a fair deal

Hey we'll make it work if it's not a fair deal it's gonna be problematic. Yeah You don't want to present me with unfair deals because I will not be accepting them. Also, does it seem like, this is more of a question, I guess, to you, you kind of got to like be truthful to yourself, like consciously too, right? Because when you, because you give it like how you say you got to ask yourself, is this, is this good for me and my ego or is this good for the team? Like as far as me not compromising my, you know, not compromising or my personal code or whatever. Yeah. And there's values that I will not compromise. Yeah.

Right. There's values that I will not compromise. I would think that that'd be for a very specific reason, you know? You know how like some people they'll be like, I'm just not like that, but they don't really know why. Like, hey, well, I don't know, maybe because my dad told me that one time when we're fishing or whatever. So there's a difference is what I'm saying. So, but here's the thing here. And I say this because this is what I'll do sometimes. I'll be like, hey, you know, this is more important because of, you know, I don't know.

My hell. Oh, you'll rationalize. Yeah, you know. And yeah, I'll essentially like twist the truth to myself to to kind of Explain to myself again how important this is you know for the team. You know what it's like If that's important there's other ways to do that so so so to to your point that's what I'm saying when I'm thinking about decisions I'm asking myself. Hey, is this my ego or is this? Oh am I doing the right thing for the road for the team? Yeah, because there's that's what you should be checking on right? Right? If you're doing it for yourself,

most 99% of the time, if you're doing something for yourself, that hurts the team, the long term is not going to be beneficial to you. Okay. The long term is not going to be beneficial to you. Yeah. Because you're doing something for yourself.

Everybody sees that. You don't think they see it, but they see it. Yeah. So you try and do things that are going to benefit the team. Yeah. And sometimes, 99% of the time,

when you do something that benefits the team, you're going to benefit from it as well. But you have to see the long game because sometimes the short game it's like oh no if I do this for the team that means I'm going to miss this this weekend and that sucks Well guess what in the long term when you work this weekend and cover for the other guys that couldn't make it in for whatever reason You're gonna have a better relationship with them and they're gonna cover for you next time it's like it's long term it's gonna be good Yeah, but you're worried about you yeah and that's that's a problem playing the long game again Yeah, always got to play that long game next question Best way to get your team in

Okay best way to get your team to buy in To your vision let it be their vision Let the vision come from them right and the more the vision comes from them The more the plan comes from them the more they buy into it The more you force the vision and force the plan down their throat the less buy in that you're gonna get from it Now you if you're super persuasive you can do a better job of coming up with a vision but why do that? Why not say, hey, guys, you know what?

We're going to put together the direction that this team is going. Give me some feedback. Give me some bullet points. Hit me. Now they all come back with bullet points. You assemble them together and it's like, hey, this is what we're doing. Boom, everyone's on board. That easy.

Our plan. Yeah, so much easier with our plan. And if you're scared of that, and I think if I give the team the opportunity to come up with a plan, they're going to come up with a plan that sucks. Well, how well did you train them if they come up with a plan that sucks? You haven't trained them very well. Most of the time, if you train them decently, they're going to come up with a plan that's close enough to a decent plan that they can go and execute it. We can all execute it together.

That can be part of the vision. Let's go. Hey, Jocco, what would be better verbal communication with concept of prioritizing XU when talking to my wife? She oftentimes feels overwhelmed with how many decisions she has to make. She hates when I use the words of prioritize and execute. Well, the root problem there isn't that she hates the words prioritized and execute. The problem is that you're you're telling her what to do. That's, you know, instead of being like, hey, you know, hey, if you just prioritize an execute,

there's at least a at least a 50% chance that she doesn't even want to hear your suggestion. She's just telling you because it's vent, she's venting to you. So for you to be like, man, those are. are a lot of decisions to make that's hard if you were to say to her how do you how do you handle this because I know you're doing this every day girl I'm impressed how do do you do that and then she says well you know it's hard but here's what I do so if it was just a matter of renaming it it's like hey we'll call it hey you know what you need to do is grade and go or what you what you need to do is rank and roll what you

need to do is triage and check off what's what you need to do or Or designate and do. That's what you know, there's a bunch of different ways you could phrase it, but that's not what's making her respond in a negative way. She's responding in a negative way

because you're saying, hey, here's all you need to do is prioritize and exercise. Right. That's just no. What she needs is some sympathy, some listening,

allowing to vent, and then you can say, hey, if you've done that properly, you can say, well, you know, I did read that book, and they kind of say

There's a bunch of crazy things going on like you've got going on They say to do the same thing that I see you do Which is you pick the most important one and then you kind of focus on that That's pretty cool. You do that pretty well by the way. You do that well. Yeah, you do that really well So just take a little different approach man Yeah, it's not just the words the words are not put I hate to break the news to you, bro the words not pissing her off You are Listen to her

It seems like you ever notice some people they come in you a problem they don't want to want a solution oh yeah it happens all the time they just want you to sit there and listen to him yeah my wife does that for sure yes for sure you know hey there's this problem oh why don't you do this it's not that easy okay fine yeah yeah you just tell me more about the problem and I'll sit over here and listen don't say that by the way you gotta do that that part yeah yeah yeah yeah it's almost like what it is like it seems like that yeah that they don't mind so much the suffering of the problem suffering I'm over using that word I know but like they don't mind the

suffering they just want to they don't want to suffer alone so if like oh yeah I'm having like these issues or whatever first is like hey come suffer with me sympathize empathize or whatever we can suffer together that that's that's why I'm coming to you in the first place so I can get closer to you whatever whatever I don't know that I'm totally reflect and diminished do you remember when I talked about that yeah that's like a such a good tactic yeah in this situation reflect the emotions back to them yeah but diminish them a little bit so if they're all freaking mad about something you go I can't believe that but you don't be as mad as them but you don't be hey calm down you don't you don't say hey here's just

just prioritize next cute oh that's a rough one actually to be honest like I felt that before where I'd come to my brother's typically the one like I've come to him with like a problem and here's the thing I didn't want like simple Empathy or empathy primarily, but I want it a little bit, you know, so you can't just roll sit there with your Apple or whatever all casually like yeah, all you got to do is put this you know like kind of like you're so done It's you get this feeling I'm not saying by the way you want to know why Your brother or you or whoever can look at that problem and like come up with a solution It's because they're detached their de facto detached from the problem so when you're all wrapped up in the problem. You're like I don't know what to do because I got this this and this and your brother's like well just do that

Yeah, and you're like you get mad. He's able to see what to do because he's on the outside. Yeah. So if you can learn to to detach yourself, you won't have to rely on getting other people to help you. Yeah. If you can't detach and you're all wrapped up in the emotions of the situation, you're gonna have to go someone to help. Yeah. Then when you do, don't get mad at them when they just tell you the solution. Yeah. But when you reverse the roles and you take ownership of trying to provide solutions, you got to realize that it's your fault that your solution isn't being welcome. Yeah, and that's kind of the point where like, I'm trying to gain an understanding, you know, because it's easy when you're detached and this person is like, why are you complaining about it? Like, because this is how you feel. On the front of your mind, you're like, why are you complaining about this? Why don't you just solve that problem and never complain about it ever again, you know? That's the feeling the other person, that detached person, the, you know, in this case, the husband or whatever.

So what I did was, I imagine my situation that I'm on the other side where I kind of, like, I know what it feels like to kind of want something. sympathy. I don't want sympathy and that's it, you know, but of course, but I want some of it. So imagine that feeling that, or I imagine that feeling that I got from my brother at times when I come to him with a problem that I'm, that's bothering me or whatever. And the part and the fact that it's bothering me means nothing. All my and so the fact, the way he presents a solution with no empathy and sympathy almost says, actually it feels like it says, you're so dumb. Like you're dumb yeah you know like why are you wrapped up about this thing you're dumb kind of thing so from a leadership perspective from his perspective he should recognize that what he

needs to do is a massage your ego yeah yeah you feel good about it be like oh man that's a hell of a problem to have you know one thing maybe you could do I don't know if you'd be a I don't know if I could do it but you could probably do it because you're a little bit better at this kind of thing yeah yeah you just throw just do the little jiu jutsu people that's a good that's a good tactic right there when you say like what you what you kind of do kind kind of like you're like one of these individuals one of the rare people who knows how to deal with it and it's like empowering you know thing that you do that I can't really do is you do it though is you prioritize an exit yep wish I could do I just get all

scattered brains focus on all kinds of different things at the same time and that's a problem yeah so yeah there you go get some next question my warrior kids want to know is where your kid number three in the works yes warrior kid three is in the works I am on chapter 10 yeah but unfortunately I've been on chapter 10 for a couple days not because it's taking me a long time to write chapter 10 but I didn't write yesterday or the day before because we were doing multiple podcasts which is a bummer but be back on the path today as a matter of fact well technically you're on the path your path is just super wide you know you had to switch lanes for a little bit you know

miss you miss the exit but good you know boom you're back on on in that lane in on the same so yeah and we're looking at we're looking at spring publication for that once again getting it out there um really having fun right in this book that's the characters develop more complex yeah there's some complexities there's some complexities there's some situations that mark hasn't really had to deal with yet uh the primary being Danny reinhart so brace yourself for the impact of Danny reinhart please yourself all right next question your lifestyle is intense and intentional how do i even get started living like that let's just break this down real easy okay Okay, number one if you want to live like more focused in your life choose to

Decide that you're gonna actually live like that do that Write down whatever it is you want to do and then before you go to bed at night Write down some things that you can do tomorrow that are gonna help you move towards the goals that you have And then set your alarm clock for early in the morning wake up and do the things that you wrote down Stay on that path. That's it. Yeah, and do you think that you've just sort of go grown accustomed to just dealing with it that way because you know the more you do it. Yeah. So that's kind of the hard part right to get off the ground. I'm saying to break the gravitational pull of of laziness and apathy. Yes. Yeah. And of course that but I feel like that in this

kind of situation like when you live how intently intense, sure, but you've kind of always been intense. But that intentional situation because it's pretty easy. If you know a goal, it's pretty, I don't say easy but it's simple like to reach that goal is really clear you know like you're going to have to fight through obstacles all this other stuff but if you don't really have an intentional like goal it's hard to just kind of float there and be like i need to be i don't know vaguely successful it's like it's it makes the whole deal harder and so a lot of times like a normal person would they don't have specific goals for every aspect of their life you know they'll have one in maybe with their career or something like that or fitness or something like that but everything else is just sort of hey i'm

living day by day doing the best I can kind of thing. But if you can, whether be write it down or whatever, if you can have it in your brain consciously or remember essentially like what these goals are, it makes it a lot more clear. And then the more you kind of follow those goals, the more it becomes like habit like you. That's what I think. Check.

Next question. How do the finest civilian leaders differ from the finest military leaders? Or in other words, what character traits do military leaders develop that are more difficult or rare for for civilian leaders to develop they're really the leadership is leadership and the good civilian leaders have the same good qualities that the good military leaders have and vice versa

and Leif Leif was talking about this the other day that you know he tells people like hey man I wish you were in the military wish you would have been good you know you would have been a good infantry officer you would be good sealed platoon leader that would have been cool if you were in teams because you're a good leader in the civilian sector you're a good leader in the You'd be a good leader in the military. So there's no, and now there are strengths and weaknesses for leaders in both of those situations. And there's military leaders.

You take 10 military leaders. There's all kinds of strength and weaknesses different between each one of those 10. And there's all kinds. You take 10 civilian leaders and there's all kinds of different strength and weaknesses amongst those 10. And if you put them, if you flip them back and forth, it doesn't matter. There's still going to be random strengths and weaknesses. Some guys are good at presenting things. Some guys are good at simplifying things.

Some guys are good at articulating things and and those groups wash out regardless. There's great military leaders that aren't very articulate, but they figure out a way to get done. There's great civilian leaders that aren't very articulate, but they figure out a way. There's great military leaders that are really good at simplifying things. There's great civilian leaders that are good at simple. There's people that are not good at that. So they find the correct solution, the people that will compliment them as leaders and move forward. But no huge difference.

Actually, there's no, there's no difference. There's there's just there's good leadership and there's bad leadership. Oh yeah that's it. Hey Jocco love your books and podcasts. When it comes down to the wire and you need to make a quick and tactical decision amid amidst chaos How do you keep your head straight? This is just everyone knows the answer to this by now Detach take a step back take a step back off the line take a step back from the tactical The situation that's going on turn your head look around see what's going on assess it properly unemotionally and then make it a decision that's it you got to learn to detach easy money next question

Joe it's not easy it was easy people wouldn't ask me that question 12 times a day simple not easy it is simple it is simple but it's definitely not easy no it's not and I'll tell you it's not only not easy it's almost so hard that you don't even like see it happening it's like you're blind to it most people are blind to it that's why it's such a huge advantage from a leadership perspective you can be one inch above everyone else you can see infinitely further than they can because because let's face it They have a limited when when you're when you're at one level when you're at six feet You can see what you can see you go to eight feet you can see things that they can't see

They literally can't see them So therefore you know things that they don't know Yeah and all of a sudden you seem brilliant because you can literally see things that they literally can't see Yeah, so take a step back turn your head look around Detach from your emotions you detach from the chaos that's it and the emotions that's like One of the major things that's making you blind for sure Yeah whether it's emotions whether it's anger whether it's frustration whether it's panic whether it's Stress all those emotions will do have the same result on you and your decision-making which is you

won't see what's actually happening yeah jocco how do you build a relationship with a boss that consistently loses his temper on a regular basis stay calm don't overreact let them vent to you and don't make a big deal out of them losing their temper to just be just be like oh just absorb it and be like hey it's all good boss yep you know let them vent and then when they calm down a little bit you know just don't even don't go like man I'm glad you calm down no just you know say okay hey you know here's where with this decision you know I'm gonna bring this to the troops or whatever you know just just be calm and then eventually hopefully you get a relationship that's strong enough that you can

actually say something to him like hey man you know I know you I know things drive you crazy but you know it's you it's always a lot better when you're just kind of calm and everyone kind of has a lot of respect for that you know Yeah, yeah. But again, that's when you gotta be careful with, because they might just go, what are you talking about? You don't know about respect? They might lose their temper right there. Yeah, yeah.

So yeah, I'm just gonna be calm, not overreact, absorb, that kind of thing. Yeah. Next question. I'm struggling to be an effective leader because I'm told that I don't have the right tone. I'm to direct in course. And I'm not too sure how to fix it. I'd appreciate any help. Thanks in advance.

If you can record yourself while you're talking to people, like when you're on the phone with someone just record to take out your your your your cell phone and record and see what you sound like because you might be surprised at what you sound like a lot of times people don't realize what they sound like you might have to overcompensate for a little while and be like overly pleasant and nice to people which which to them might sound like normal but you'll sound like you're being just totally over the top nice because you're like how are you today and they're thinking oh That's nice. He's actually having a conversation with me and in your mind you're like these are just pleasantries. I don't think I should be doing you know. It's like no

Just calm down. It's actually great feedback. It's awesome that people have actually told you that you are Too direct and two course. So what does that mean? You're offending people if you're offending people do they listen to you? The answer is no So how do you not offend people and in your mind? You're thinking, hey, this is the way I am. You know, I'm just one of these people that's direct. You don't you know, you just I just put the word out. It's like no actually all you do is piss people all Off offend them and now they don't listen to you. So don't be that person. Let's try and build relationships make that your key goal make your goal not to get the point across to them but to build a relationship with them Yeah, make that your goal and then the rest of it will start to come together get you moving in the right direction Yeah, and and sometimes not saying this person is like this but sometimes people who are Direct and course like they sort of take pride in it. Yeah, yeah sure so me if you can search you your mind and be like hey am I taking pride in this a little bit know that like

you're you're you're going full speed in the wrong direction there with that you know if that's the case that makes it a lot of easier you go yeah affirmative next question I serve in the Coast Guard and operate in high risk surf operations where not only do I have victims in the water who gave a high risk who have a high risk of dying but also my people and myself have a high probabilities of being injured or killed I enjoy my job thoroughly and perform on the job but it's the waiting that's brutal how do you manage stress stress in the off time so it's not overwhelming look you got to train hard you got to be prepared you got to rehearse

you got to drill worst-case scenarios you got to be an awesome physical condition you got to do all those things you prepare as much as you can you can't worry about things that you can't control so the things that you can't control What can you control? You can be in good physical shape. You can prepare for your equipment make sure you know how to operate your equipment You can drill worst-case scenarios to make sure your team understands the procedures that you're supposed to do So you take control of all the things that you can control You do those to the endth degree the things that you can't control You just got to not worry about them because that's what's you're actually you're actually less prepared because you're worrying about other things

You can't sleep because there's a storm coming and you know that there's gonna be some rescues. It's like hey, you You've prepared you've trained you've got your equipment already you've you've rehearsed with your teammates like that's what we do and there's some things that I can't control and I'm okay with that and not to get too crazy but like worst case scenario and not to get too like dark worst case scenario what happens Worst case scenario what happens you die that's the worst case scenario that happens Um, okay. Okay. So you've got your insurance taken care of. You got your SGLI set up. You know, you've written letters to your family to tell them what to do and that you've had a great job and that you loved what you're doing what you're doing. And, and that that's the way it goes. You know, part of life is death. A hundred percent. Think about that. A hundred percent. So if you can compartmentalize the things that you can control and say, okay, these are the things I've got control of. And then you look at the worst case scenario, which is the worst case scenario. I mean, I guess the worst case scenario is like, hey, if you could one of your teammates, you know, dies, that seems to me to always be the worst thing. Or you die.

Well, what are you going to do? So to prevent my teammate from dying, I'm going to train, prepare, do everything I can in my power. and one of the things in my power to do is to not be scared of things that I can't control or not worry about things that I can't control and then like hey I could die doing this job that could happen what do you do about that you prepare for it you you write your will you make sure that your w two or page two i believe it's called your page two in the military service records so that they know what to do with your finances you fill out your SGL form you write a you write a letter to your friends and family that's what you do and then you go

out and you do your job the fear the fear of death that you have in your mind is more likely to cause a problem it's more you have more if you're afraid of death you're more likely to die than if you say you know what if this happens God forbid guess what I'm living the life I want to live and I'm gonna die doing this it's like that if you can get over that hurdle right there that's a huge thing and the the more comfortable you are with that the less chance of you actually dying there is because you won't be scared of it you won't be hesitant you won't be paranoid you won't lose sleep you'll be like okay so so just truly think about it like man you're you're doing an important job you're gonna try and save people's lives

There's inherent risk in that, but it's what you want to do is what you chose to do There's you deal with that and if you can get through that That's a huge step does this mean you want to die? No, it doesn't mean that at all doesn't mean that at all It doesn't mean that at all But if you're like you know what I could die That's one of the possible outcomes here. It's highly unlikely, but it is a possible outcome If it happens I've lived the best possible way I can I've prepared for my family

friends to be taken care of to understand what happened and I'm I'm okay with that That's that's my recommendation Jocko I'm very goal-oriented I'm very goal-oriented my friends say that they want me to achieve this and that yet they still are vaping Partying being lazy and overall don't walk the talk I want to be an a F special tactics Air Force Air Force special tactics officer and I don't have time for those districts How do I get them on track? Well, this is a pretty straightforward one for me

What I do is I walk the walk and keep walking and if these guys want to walk to walk with me Cool, but if they want to vape and party and be lazy Those aren't the kind of guys you want around in with your team anyways, you know? So unless they get on the path That leads to the right place. I mean you You can tell them hey man doesn't gonna get you there but don't spend a bunch of time trying to pick up and drag people that don't want to drag themselves Not that you go into an organization like special tactics in the Air Force You don't want to be carrying other people you don't have to motivate other people you want people that want to do the job themselves

So don't spend a bunch of time With these people that don't want to get after it Makes sense Jocco when things start moving fast and feel out of control because you're really getting after it work family Jiu-jitsu and countless other things How do you slow it down and get the feeling back of being in control? What you do in this situation is go harder You go harder what you do is and this is think of it like this think of it as a sprint You're getting bogged down. There's a bunch of stuff going on grab a hold of a bunch of them and sprint and get caught up

That's what you do you sprint you get caught up I do that kind of right now and I didn't start doing that. I really started having to do these little sprints that I do sometimes now like maybe a year ago where I just have to just just buckle down for three days and do nothing but work just that's it. Nothing but work. I'm in the middle of one right now like just what what I did over the last few days is like work work work work and more work. So it's a sprint, but then you get caught up, you get things under control, and then you can go back to a more sustainable pace because you can't sprint forever. You cannot sprint forever factually, right? That doesn't work. Yeah. So if you think you're going to run alongside a vehicle because you can sprint, that's not going to work. Eventually the vehicle is going to outpace you and you're going to be left behind. So you have to, you have to choose a race that you can win. But sometimes just like in a running race, you got a sprint to get ahead and then once you get ahead

You can you know you can fall you can you can you can go back to a sustainable pace But that's that's what I do I go into like a little period of mass production I prefer slow and steady absolutely I prefer just to keep on the disciplined path every day doing what needs to be done You know that we talked about plant a tree earlier like writing a book nothing feels better writing a book then when you look up after after a month of writing and you got 30,000 words because you wrote a thousand words a day to sit down and write 30,000 words is a gut check it's a gut check for me it is because I don't enjoy doing that for long periods of time I don't enjoy sitting

there typing because the words are already pretty much in my head so it's just a manual labor Yeah, yeah. But it's not manual labor where you get to move rocks. It's a manual later of pecking it into a keyboard. Yeah. That's not fun for me. There's no, there's zero physical benefit. But to look up after a month and say, I've got 30,000 words, that's almost a book, right?

Yeah. So I prefer to do that. But sometimes because I've saddled myself with many different things going on right now, Sometimes I get behind and I have to sprint. I have to just say okay, you know what? This is going to suck for three days, but I'm going to get back on track. And here we go. So that's what I do when I start feeling like other things are kind of getting the hang of me. Like hey man, maybe you have to for work, you have to sacrifice jiu-jitsu for whatever, two days. You're like, yep, I'm not going to train. But that's going to save me a total of five hours in the next couple days and I can get a lot of work done in five hours. I didn't do jiu-jitsu yesterday. Did I want to? Yes, I did. But I said, okay, I'm in a sprint right now. I got to get this other stuff done.

And I had to prioritize. So that's what you have to do. And guess what? You know, then you get through that sprint. Now you can go back to your sustainable thing, which is jujitsu every day, which is work out every day, which is, you know, write your right every day. Do your work every day. So try that. Try just buckling out.

Tell your family. Tell your jiu-jitsu instructor. Be like, hey, listen, I'm going to be gone for 30. Three days I got I got to get caught up So stand by and boom tell your family look hey, I'm sorry for the next three days You're not gonna hear much for me I'm gonna stay at work late. I'm gonna get a bunch of stuff done and just sprint hard and give them a little reward at the end Hey when I get back on Tuesday or when I get back on the Friday we're gonna go out for dinner. We're gonna have a good time

But I got a sprint got to get caught up so there you go That's my procedure good little tactic right there is a good tactic. Oh a little reward. Do you like that? Well, the whole deal both of them like basically to make sure that you communicate with all these people that might be affected by your thing even like in small ways like how you say hey i'm gonna sprint right now you'd you'd be oh i'm sometimes surprised and how that just that little thing is so effective like you know like i don't know i'm i'm gonna go to j jitzzi at you know a weird different time that maybe my family's sort of depending on me not in a big way but just a little bit depending on me being there right and i'm gonna go to jiu juts instead if i say a one week before

I do that if I say hey on this day you know like yeah I understand hey usually I'm here I dig it but hey I'm gonna go this day this day this training just kind of means a lot to me this day and time whatever a week before heads up they love it love night and day try do it the the hour before versus the week before night and day one situation it's like yes oh we got your back we'll do it and the other one is like yeah disdain guess what my wife thinks what she thinks I'm going to jih Tih Tzu every day and I am. Yeah. But she's just like so, I'm sure at some point.

It's surprising to her if I'm ever like, oh, you know, she'll be like, oh, you didn't leave yet? Yeah, yeah. I'm like, no, I'm actually working. You're like, oh, okay. That's what she realized I got some work to do. Yeah. Man, but that's a good, that's good to remember it, you know?

Yeah. Because it's easy to get caught up in like, hey, this is me and my sprint. I'm the one going to have to buckle down, you know, sort of thing. So it kind of maybe gets in the way of you thinking like, hey, it's, it's for other people too, you know what I'm saying? And then that additional one where it's like, yeah, when I'm done, you got another reward. Because then if you communicate, they don't need the reward.

I mean, you know, it depends on who it is. But typically it would make sense for them not to need the reward because we're all good. Mediating up the reward scenario. Don't do it too much. They expect it. But that's a good to, I think. That's good. I'm going to put that one into rotation.

Next question. Hey, Jocco, a lot of respect for you and your work. I have a question. How do you draw? the line between doing things you're uncomfortable with to develop and just torturing yourself unnecessarily who's pretty it's pretty straightforward question actually in a pretty straightforward answer does it benefit you or not does it benefit you and and there is some level of torture that benefits you because it just keeps you mentally and physically tougher so there is benefit to to some

level of torture, right? There's also a level of torture that is not beneficial for you. Actually, it takes you backwards and it's going to injure you. It's going to break you down. It's going to break you down mentally. It's going to break you down physically. There's times, like I've talked about this. Like, there's times when I've gotten on a plane where I get on a plane. This is when I know I'm just done training, which is I get on a plane and I, because normally on a plane, I can like really hammer out some work. I can get a podcast. I can read a book. I can just really go hard. because there's no I don't sign up for Wi-Fi on the planes I just do work and When I get on a plane and I'm just like I'm gonna watch him I'm gonna go into this thing and watch and I remember the last time I did I watched Zoolander Yeah, man, which is a funny movie, but there's no zero positive benefit to my humanity by watching Zoolander Yeah, but that's that's it so So I just like

like okay mentally just need to damn break you know and same thing with physical like there's times where you're physically like there's times this is an interesting one when you're training jiu jit-to if I have an injury that's recovering and let's say normally I do eight rounds 10 rounds when I have an injury that's recovering I have to have the discipline to say you know what I'm only doing four rounds today because when you get to the fifth, sixth round, I'm tired, I'm making mistakes. Seventh, eighth round, now I'm actually going to get injured again.

So I want to recover from the injury, so I take some, I take, I have to have the discipline to say no. Because the lack of discipline says, I'm just going to train more, I'm just going to train harder. And sometimes you have to take a little bit of a breather. And so if you're doing something that's uncomfortable, but it's making you stronger or smarter or faster. or faster yeah that's good if you're doing something that's uncomfortable and it's not

beneficial to you then that's not smart to do except for the occasional gut check which is hey this is just going to suck yeah this is just going to suck and I'm going to do it anyways and that's fine you're kind of different than people in the concept that you're talking about I think yeah that's universal which is good like you know you talk about like going on the plane right even like the way you're like that has no good for humanity. You know, I know that was like a joking way of putting it. But the thing is, that is good for you.

And it's... What is? Zoolander. Zoolander, whatever you watch or something that's like not work. Because it's like, you know, compare it to a workout. Rob Jones does this a lot. He'll compare it to like lifting weights or workout, which is good. I think a near perfect analogy, the working out thing. It's essentially just your rest between sets.

That's all it is. So if it's like, yeah, you don't get rest between sets. Oh yeah, see how much weight so you can live then? Probably not that much but there's a difference between resting for like two minutes between your sets and then resting one day Yeah, I agree sometimes though Sometimes you can say oh, I need a rest, but you don't really need that's what I mean yeah and so you gotta be careful of that Yeah, sometimes you got to go oh, this is just torture store. I don't want to do it, but you're really just being mentally weak right So you have to be aware you have to do things that suck sometimes

Yeah, so for sure some workouts just suck Yeah and they're awful and they're torture but they make you stronger they make you better and they make you tougher Yeah, so you do them yeah so it perfect and then if you want to do the workout analogy right where you're like Okay, so this those those two dichotomies if you will so it's like okay rest between sets cool I dig it you do work and then you rest you between sets That's the whole thing right format, but you're like okay I if I need two minutes of rest in between my sets for this specific workout for this specific outcome or results from the workout then boom that's what I'm going to do I'm going to rest for two minutes

so there's difference in that case there's a difference between resting two minutes and then resting resting 15 minutes you don't need all that rest now you're just cruising now you're just avoiding the next set or putting it off or doing whatever there's a difference but on the other side the more extremist side of the spectrum the workout can be like not two minutes rest

the workout the whole workout could last two hours long no rest between sets that's the workout but when the workout's done you still got a rest recover from that workout so just because you don't have a set amount of sets in in your work day-to-day still doesn't mean you you need that rest between sets or at the very least rest between work one thing that I got used to in the military and I see it in companies all time like I could work 24 hours a day seven days a week never stop and never get everything done yeah that's something to think about

so then you have to say yourself well how productive am I gonna be and what's important and what's not important and you gotta make sure that you yeah you're right if you take no rest you won't be able to function properly. And for me, like, I could write 24 hours a day and not write all the books I want to write. I could do jihitsu 24 hours a day and not get as good as I want to get. I could work out 24 hours a day and not get as strong as I want to get.

So you have to figure out how to balance all those different items together to figure out, like, okay, what is an acceptable level at each one of these components? Yeah. And it's going to take kind of identifying the results that you want that are acceptable to you, you know? So, yeah, like a, what do you call this, you know, like NASCAR. car right right you've watched streets of thunder i don't know the one with tom cruise that he's a nascar something of thunder days of thunder okay anyway he's like racing and he's like hey you got to do a

pit stop everybody got to do a pit stop but it seems weird you know when you're like racing and you're like hey i'm ahead of everybody i'm not gonna stop right now i'm proof of word you know but bro your wheels are gonna fall off bro so you got a pit stop sometimes sure watch some zoolander whatever And then when you're done you can be way more productive because those tires are new now But they can fly around the track grip everything see what I'm saying concur so it's part of the game That's what I'm saying next question how does the introduction you gave to Mike in the equipment room square with extreme ownership? No judgment Just trying to oh yeah so Mike So Reilly when Mike's really came into task unit bruiser because his other his other tasking had had some leadership issues and Mike was sort of the collateral damage in that whole thing

and so they moved him from that task unit which was task unit Charlie into task unit bruiser and when he came in I brought him into the equipment room at Seal Team 3 which is where I would counsel my junior officers because there was the there was construction going on at Seal Team 3 at the time and there was no ceiling so everyone could hear you in your office and so I would go into this equipment room and brief guys if if need be And I just brought Mike Sorley in there and I had a A counseling letter for him to sign and it said there's no drama in task unit bruiser

Don't bring any into it and That's it was like really straightforward. I'm not to ask him if he still has it But I don't know why this person thinks that that doesn't square with extreme ownership as far as I'm concerned that is I had a guy that was coming into a unit that had been together for seven or eight months gone through workup and ready getting ready for deployment and I just had to take ownership of the fact that I had a guy that was showing up that I didn't know I did get feedback I got feedback from multiple people multiple sources and my bro source was like hey soirelli he's fucking good to go and I was like okay cool so I knew he was good to go but still I wanted to set the the expectation right for him so that he knew like look like Man, he might think that that was his first task unit he was with, you know? He might think this is the way it is.

It's like, no, that's not the way it is. So for me, it was just, hey, we're just taking ownership. For me, it was, hey, I'm just going to take ownership of this. Make sure he knows what's going on. Make sure he understands the expectations. Make sure that we're not going to have any drama in here because we don't have any drama. There's no drama. Like we have problems, we solve them.

We don't backstab each other and tell on each other and stab each other in the back. No, we have a problem. We get together, we solve the problem. That's how it is. And so that's all. You know, no, I don't even think that's a, I'm not even quite sure I'd have to get more details on this question to figure out why that didn't seem like the right thing to do.

From my perspective, it was, you know, it's great when you, when you have somebody come on board and they go, hey man, here's the expectations that are going on. Yeah. Boom. Yeah, maybe, because that was before he did anything. It's not like he did something and then you were like, hey, you're bringing drama.

Don't do that here. It wasn't that. It was like, hey, man, we don't have drama here. Right. Don't bring it in here. Yeah. You good with that? Yeah.

And Mike Sorelli said, Roger that, sir. Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah, of course. So. And you know how much drama you brought in? Zero. Yeah.

Yeah. So in a way, I mean, I don't know, looking at it from the outside, it seems like that was, you know, the essence of extreme ownership. Yeah. I'm going to use some anticipated problems. I'm going to do everything to mitigate, you know, whatever, all these things. And I'm going to go a preempted problem solving. mode tactfully yeah you know in your way you know in the locker room or whatever yeah it wasn't even like I was like you better not it didn't even accuse him or anything you know

I actually literally said there's no drama here yeah don't bring any I didn't say like you know you know I didn't like a point my finger no I was like hey man hey because in my mind I'm thinking you know what I'm thinking in my mind hey got a prior enlisted marine that's gonna be in my task unit I got another body and he's an experienced guy With you know Yeah, I was I was totally stoked yeah, I was totally stoked man Yeah So yeah, dang it

No factor All right I think we got time for one more man One more question sure How do you stay on the war path When everything seems to be going wrong Good question You think that's a good question Well here's what I think is strange

About that question It's sort of like the question I just answered About like sprinting Yeah It's easy to when things are going right. It's easy to stay on the warpath Right you don't even need to be on the war path when things are going great Because everything's happy. There's no war going on you're at peace people are you know delivering food to you And you're getting a massage. There's no there's no there's no you're not like oh I need to be on the war path right now

While I'm getting a back massage while I'm getting food delivered to me that's not happening when you the actual time that you you need to go on the war path and you need to go harder on the war path is when things are going wrong wrong That's when you need to dig deeper. That's when you need to that's when the whole like idea of saying good That's when it happens when things are actually when you're getting tested by the world That's when you want to do it so when you get tested by the world that's when you get the opportunity to show the world what's you're made of That's when you get to say Bring it on bring it on oh things are going wrong bring it on I actually look forward to that Because this is when I get to exercise my discipline this is when I get to show the discipline I get to put the discipline to work

It's the moment I have been waiting for because let's face it If things were easy then then I could just sit around and slack off right that's what that's what could happen But when things are easy, when things are going right, that's when you actually can slack off a little bit because things are going right. I don't recommend it. I recommend actually when things are going right, you go hard. But when things are going wrong, you need to go even harder. So if everything's going wrong, it doesn't matter to me because I'm on the path. I'm going to stay on the path, on the war path.

And I'm going to get my situation rectified. stat get some all right that's like two hours or something right now so let's um I don't know speaking of the war path

the path yes how could we get people to you know how could we assist with people being on the warpath step one jujitsu that's it maybe that's step yeah man that's step one straight up it depends on where you are to begin

So let's face it anyway you just so you need your your gie right no need to ask any more get a origin gie origin main dot com hundred percent 100 percent made in america yes that 200 percent good gita get the ghee to get and also 100 percent made in america made in america from the dirt to the geetop straight up yeah because let's face it from the top soil to the ghee top Top soil to the top of the ghee. Yeah, fully. And for those who care about the aesthetics of the ghee, these aesthetics are, how should I say, made specifically for Jiu Jitsu for sure.

By Jiu Jitsu people. By Jiu Jitsu, yes. But they're like, they're cut. You know how they're cut like for Jiu Jitsu? You see what I'm saying? And they look dope too, by the way. If you care about that kind of stuff. Yeah, also they got up.

You want to make like you don't care, but you care. No, I am and always have been impressed by specifically Dragon Weave. There you get. Come on. Yeah. You see a Dragon Weave Geree or you're not like a, like, I still am impressed with it. You know, when you see, yeah. Have you seen the machine that they, that they figure out how to weave that thing?

It's like an old, it's in Pete's office and it's like a, it's, I'll have Pete post a picture of it, but it looks like a mechanical thing from 1898. I bet you it's from 1930. I bet you the thing is actually from 1930. We'll have to ask Pete what year it is, but that's the actual thing. It's the old school thing that you figure out.

You program is the word, but it's nothing, there's nothing digital about this. You program what the fabric is going to look like from this machine. It's freaking, it's cool. Anyways, yeah, so that's the Dragon Weave. Also, rash cards, also 100% made in America. T-shirts, other things.

Some cool stuff on that for sure. Supplements as well. Yeah, yeah, and supplements for your joints, A, for your being as a human, and for your operational capabilities. Yes. So, joint warfare, for your... joints krill oil for your being and joints and joints discipline for your

operational capability lift yeah lift your cognitive and your physical capabilities and then of course we got that milk some additional protein for that one I had a big milk shake put dark chocolate in it by the way you said that on the last podcast yeah but this time I put it again yes and I put dark oh dark chocolate I How was it? Outstanding. With what flavor milk? Peanut butter chocolate.

Is that your go-to? Currently it is. It was the mint. Currently it is for me too. Yeah, so it's in a rotation and it's all based on like how I feel. I'm gonna tell you I'm, I probably have had peanut butter six times in a row. Yeah. Which it used to be not happening.

It would be mint six times in a row. And then right now I'm just so down with that peanut butter. Just down the, yeah, on the peanut butter. Yeah, on the peanut butter train situation. But yeah, so the, and these supplements overall, especially the joint ones, like milk, it's easy. It's like a kind of, and it's just me alone with my thoughts. I'm like, this is kind of a glamorous one. The protein, hell yeah, my muscles.

Right? But the joint warfare, they don't get like the glamour. Here's what, here's what one of my buddies was telling me yesterday. One of my brethren seals was, is using vanilla gorilla. And he's like, I'm, he's like, I'm putting it in everything. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Coffee? Boom. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've done that. Tea, boom. Yeah, I don't know about tea, but his main thing was coffee. He's a psycho. Yeah.

He's putting in his coffee. Yeah. And he said it's like a sweetener, but obviously it's like not, right? It's not bad for you. Yeah, it is sweetener because it makes it more sweet. He was, he was, you know when you talk to people and they get like the, the like little, the little kid look in their eyes. Yeah.

He had that. He's like, I put the vanilla grill in there. I could say he was getting fired up when he said he hit it with the blender stick I was like that oh man it's the blender stick the wand one yeah yeah yeah so technically I do the same thing but I put the coffee in it's like a lower an espresso or whatever in the mok oh so it's like a milk shake like the same deal but I'm sure the ratios are different I don't even like coffee it is and that's the thing it is so if you if you like like coffee ice cream you know like that kind stuff where coffee ice cream and like black coffee those are two different experiences for sure

so coffee ice cream that's a delicious flavor one it's like nice delicious so it's kind of the same deal with a milk speaking of delicious strawberry and chocolate wore your kid milk for your children I this this could get some kind of a you know I'm not gonna put myself in for a Nobel Peace Prize sure yeah yeah but like hey we We are helping the children of the world in a big way. Yeah. With strawberry and chocolate warrior kid, Mulk. Big time.

Because there's no other thing that you're just as a kid, as a kid, you're about that little Snickers bar hitter, right? Yeah, or these bad snacks in the case maybe. Yeah, or bad snack hitters, right? Sure. You're right? Yes. Well, I'll check with Theo Vaughn on that one. Yeah.

Because he understands hitters better than me. But if you can give your kid a strawberry or chocolate mulk hitter They're just gonna be so stoked And they're gonna get stronger Yeah literally Healthy, yeah I told Pete I said on the warrior kid podcast that warrior kid milk will make you stronger He's like I don't know if you can legally make that

Claim I'm like well It's already been said and it's straight up true How can you wait how can you not how can that not be legally made because does protein rebuild your muscles answer yes does warrior kid mulk have protein in it yes I guess we got to get the kids to jack steel to or just grow up as a kid healthy yeah you'll get stronger as a kid growing up you don't have to jack any so we are technically and legally authorized to say to the children of the world warrior kid milk will make you stronger if I get the Nobel Prize

for that you get a Nobel Prize for helping children around the world yes okay then I deserve it yeah right there you go and not to go too deep into the whole thing about getting stronger like if you make the claim that something's gonna make you stronger I think that is fine like legally because legally you can't like diagnose it wasn't with there's certain there's a list of things you can do you can't diagnose you can't oh treat do you know do see if they're specific kind of they're more medically based yeah But I don't know well the only thing that we really the only claim that we make which is scientifically proven is the is the

Deadlift capabilities if you drink jocco white tea is eight thousand pounds. Yeah, which I mean obviously Triple blind no one's gonna argue with that one No, because that's just facts. So if you want some of the if you want some Jocko white tea because you need a bigger deadlift which you probably do Yeah, then you can get that from Amazon Well, the cans from Amazon. The cans from Amazon. The tea, you can get everywhere. Everywhere, meaning?

Online. Just go online, man. Okay. Jocko IT. It's on the store. Okay. There you go. On what store?

Jocko store. It's called Jocco store. And the website is jocco store.com. It's online. Did you say the website for origin? Origen. For the tea. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. For all those, the Jocko, Joint Warfare, Molk, the Gies, the Raskar, the Origin stuff is all that origin. in Maine.com. I did say it, but, you know, that's a little reminder. Yeah. But Jocco White Tea is everywhere, including jocco store.com. Also on jockelstore.com is where you can get your shirts when you're representing on the path. See, and that's a big part of being on the path.

Actually, that's a good psychological and physical in my experience. I don't even know what you're going to say, but I know what you're going to say. What helps you stay on the path is what I'm saying? Well, you're not going to eat a donut while you're wearing a Dispical Freedom T-shirt. Exactly right. That's that's it's physically impossible. I think so, yes. You'll be like you'll you'll be like the exorcist.

You just won't be able to stop yourself from throwing the donut box in the garbage can. You know what's weird and I'm being serious? It's like now. Get behind me, Satan. No. Like I can't eat a donut even if I'm by myself like I can't. Like it's embedded already because of like the ethos of the path. Yeah.

It prevents me physically from eating. The only donut I could eat is one that is an actual piece of steak cut into a circle with a piece missing from the middle. Yeah. I might do that. Maybe. I might make a steak donut just to get some. Well, here's the thing, though. There's such thing as like little protein donuts.

Yeah, but if you look at the ingredients. I don't think it's really like a paleo pro. You know, when people make paleo stuff, it's like kind of solid sometimes. Okay, why not just shape it like a stick? Yeah, I know. Really? I think you have a point, though. to get into a donut scenario that's just because I think that's it I think that's the thing

it's like the fact that it's a donut kind of is that's what kind of creates the little thing in my in my brain anyway anyway back to the store jocco store hoodies on there shirts on there hats on there a lot of cool stuff on there if you want to represent if you're to represent in the wild jocco store dot com grab something keep you on the deaf core also okay we talk about Jock, Y, T, obviously. Also, you want to subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already. That'll kind of keep you in tune, so to speak. Seems obvious, I guess, but it seems like a small thing.

But hey, it's good to subscribe. Stay in tune, stay in touch on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play. You know, anywhere where you listen to your podcast, go ahead, subscribe. Also, the Warrior Kid podcast. Is the Warrior Kid podcast better than Jocko podcast? I personally don't think so at the end. End of the day. What do you say net? Oh, you say net net net. You ever heard that expression? Net net My brother says that all the time anyway net net net. I like the jockel podcast better

Here's the thing though it's not like just cut and dry you know what there's there's like legit competition. Yeah, and here's the thing if you were to observe them from a completely unbiased You probably don't like the warrior kid podcast because you're not in it I can't freaking rebuttal my stuff Maybe here's a thing maybe but Like hearing yourself here's the no There's the here's the here's the part that kind of kind of what is so like is like a rebuttal to my own opinion Worried kid podcast every single one of those was was like 90 like I would say 85 to 100% impactful like every little thing like that felt like applied to me where I can like you're not talking about your daughter no

I'm applied to you to me directly and here's the thing some things yes Six years old or whatever you are. Yeah, yes. But, and I'm not saying it doesn't apply to my daughter. I'm not saying that. I'm saying it applies to me directly, whether it be me in my own life or me, how I'm going to deal with my daughter now or my son or whatever. Like all of the things, pretty much. Like, that's kind of the.

So net, net, yeah, Jocko podcast, sure, I like better. Maybe because there's kind of more thing. I don't know why, but that's my answer. But I will say this. Maybe there. Maybe you might be right But maybe because there's so There's not as many warrior kid

Maybe yeah Maybe I need more I need more to shift over to For that to be better I don't know Maybe either way that's on iTunes Stitcher Oh yeah that's on that's a podcast as well That you subscribe to also YouTube

Is a worry kid YouTube Well there's war yeah speaking of YouTube There's the Jocko podcast channel on YouTube There's Warrior Kid podcast on YouTube, which we separated so that your child won't be watching Warrior Kid podcast, and then all of a sudden have the Rape of Dan King podcasts creep into their zone, right? So we separated them, but they're both up there. They're both available.

And also on the Jocco podcast, that's where Echo puts up videos with enhancements to them that make the message more impactful, in his opinion. Well Hopefully we'll say hopefully Yeah like I said though The Mikey and the Dragons video Which has moved to the top slot In my opinion

For your videos Which is a bold statement Cool Yeah It's a bold statement People have got tears in their eyes From a two minute video about a kid's book That's pretty impressive

Yeah Well I do have to say I even had tears in my eyes here's the thing that's I for real and I'm not going to be like all humble or whatever I don't think it's necessarily because of me making the video because like well I don't know

I'm only speaking for myself where okay so the the king died this is a story within a story it's a story of a story in a story so there's like three layers there but so the idea of the king dying and then the kid being like young and having this big responsibility heaped on his shoulder

and shoulders in him being scared for some reason I don't know I just get like all whatever about that or emotions I don't know sensitive about that kind of stuff so when it's like you explaining it and you say it like you're not being all tough jocco you know see what I'm saying like you're doing it like appropriately you see what I'm saying and then so it's like that that's really what kind of affected me and I think sure I laid it out in a way where it's like kind of delivered in the appropriate way but is it is it oh I was going to ask if it was more impactful because you and I know the whole story but people that don't know the whole story that

didn't have the book yet we're like oh my god yeah it was because because you know the whole story it's like oh that's cool but then people that didn't know the whole story were just like oh you know actually no another thing because jade said the same thing and he didn't read the whole story and he and he actually had little tears in his eyes he's like yeah i have tears in my eyes i don't know why i like trying to act like it's just so confusing you know but meanwhile he's all like being all emotional yeah i saw what went on so that's the that's the youtube channel you can subscribe to that That'd be cool. We'd appreciate it and all that stuff.

Plus you can leave the big thing about if you subscribe to the YouTube channel, you need to comment about Echo because the only compensation that Echo receives for participation in this podcast is being able to read YouTube comments that say, Echo is so jacked. So go on YouTube, subscribe, and then write Echo is yoked. Echo is jacked, echo is looking massive, all that kind of stuff. Because that way he'll be happy. I can just pay him with that.

That's what he gets paid with. Yeah, that's the worst idea I've ever heard. It's not that bad. Nonetheless. But you do like it. Nonetheless. You pointed it out to me before. Yes, he did.

You did. When? You were like, you were like, oh, there's always someone that says I look jacked. I never said that. Yes, you did. Anyway, anyway, psychological warfare. Okay. If you don't know what that is, is what it is.

It's an album with tracks. It's on iTunes and Amazon music and stuff. It's an album with tracks. Jocko sang, helping you, us. He's helping us. That's what he's doing. Jocko is helping us through moments of weakness when they arise. And they'll arise.

You can't sprint forever. Good point. And you might, instead of taking appropriate action, when you realize you can't sprint forever, sometimes you might want to take a little bit more rest between sets. you don't have to but sometimes you might want to take too much rest you might want to yes exactly right

and you will not ever look jacked if you're taking too much rest between sets so get psychological warfare on iTunes Google Play MP3 yes yes and you'll get past those moments of weakness because Jock will just help you through it just by telling you that's the thing it's like a little spot

you know when you're slacking a little spot in reference to weightlifting Yeah, if that's the analogy. Right, because you someone's trying to lift and they can't quite get it and so they help you lift it a little bit. They give you a little spot. But in this case, yes, but in this case is that how you get jacked. In this case, instead of weights, it's your slacker weakness that might come. I'm not saying we're all weak, but sometimes some of us, a lot of us are sometimes. Anyway, jaku's there for you. Boom, psychological warfare. Also, if your workout's boring, even if it's not boring, even if it's not boring, get more fitness gear so I incorporated okay get it from on it right onet dot com slash jocko fitness gear rope battle ropes rings kettle bells of course to me if you don't have the kettlebells I feel like there's like one little element big small I don't know depends on who you are but there's one

little element of life that's missing that's my opinion but when I got the rings that changed my whole workout so what I do what I you know the like you do a bunch of cool stuff stuff on rings. I only do a handful of things. Actually, not even a handful, like two, three things. One of the main ones are like, you know, when you, I make them go super low, like maybe waist, maybe... Pan sand push subs in them? No, bro. I'm still a beginner at the rings, but so I'll hold them in front of me and then I'll do it. It's kind of like an ab roller kind of thing. Do you use one arm at a time or both arms? Both arms. And then sometimes I'll go like wide and narrow whatever. So I'll do those. I'll do like sets of ten. And you can adjust like how high. So how high is.

So how hard and easier it is, whatever. One millimeter off the ground. You've got to go full extension. You can't get there. I'm going to get there. Unless between every exercise, actually no, between every set, you do a set of 10.

That's like the workout. Because it's not super exhausting to do it, you know, so it's like an active rest. It's good, man. I think it'll take your like workout to the next level. To the thing. People say that, take it to the next level.

That doesn't even mean anything to the next level. Let me ask you this. Even if it doesn't take it. If it takes this, will it help you get jacked? Anyway, let me briefly explain what that means to the next level. So like when you do, I don't know, dead lifts or I don't know, shoulder press or something. Like when you're, as you guys, curls, oh big time, curls and tricep extension. When you do these things, you're like, since you're like core or whatever is stronger,

and this is just what I'm like when you feel when your core is strong, it feels like you have way better balance. You have like way better control of of the weight so you get stronger overall Boom just just from rings Yeah anyway yeah anyway on it.com. That's that's where you get all this cool stuff If you want to get your mind Smarter and tougher and get your brain more jacked If you want to get your brain more jacked We got some books Mike in the Dragons

That is out there are more being printed at this time I'm printing as many as humanly possible order it immediately so that I know and I can get it to you it's coming so it's we've we've shipped out some we got some more coming in right now so yeah if you haven't ordered it ordered it yet then order it now the feedback is awesome right now and thank you for posting the reviews on Amazon that's so cool to read and see little pictures of kids reading the book and I'm just super stoked on that book so thank you for that and weigh the warrior kid for the kids that Maybe just a little bit older. That's a book about getting on the path for kids.

And it's going to help them in every possible element of their life that I can think of right now. It will help them. I think so too. It will make them smarter. It'll make them work harder. It'll make them understand discipline. It'll make them stronger. It'll just help them across the board.

That's the way the warrior kid. And the follow-on book to that is where the warrior kid marks mission. The next is the discipline equals field the discipline equals freedom field manual Which is a book about how to get after it Yeah the book. It's the book about how to get after it It is it is not a throwaway book by any stretch no it is How would you describe it? It's a manual, but I mean

It's an instrument no what's the word you used earlier? Aesthetically aesthetically aesthetically could you possibly look just look the external part just the cover of the field manual and think maybe I'll do a little extra work today yes that is entirely possible yeah fully any because you know what's in it yeah get after it material the um oh and I was thinking about this too not extensive thought but there's an audio version of this true which is cool which is good

But it's kind of like one of those things where you kind of like, man, I kind of want the physical book. Even if I'm more of an audio book person, I want that physical book because of its aesthetics. Heavy. It's heavy. It has black pages. Let's just put it to you that. Let's just start with that. Have you ever seen a book with black pages? No, you haven't. Get the field manual right there. If you do want the audio version, then it's on iTunes, Amazon Music, Google Play. It's not on Audible because I wanted you to be able to use it as. a alarm. Sure. Some of those things, little warnings. Yeah.

Tracks, ready to be played at a moment's notice. Yeah. And that's the thing too, where... Like, if you timed, if you set up a timer where when you were going to lunch, yeah. Sugar-coated Lies plate, it would keep in check. For real. Man, perfect example.

And because the thing is like some of these like chapters or whatever, you're going to identify with more than, let's say, the next chapter, you know, especially like if you like donuts or pastries of sorts. You know the sugar-coded lies one you're gonna be referencing down a little bit more right so it's like okay, you know So you have that option now that's good I'm put it on the timer. That's good Check. Yeah The the next book is well that I'll talk about two books together extreme ownership and dichotomy and leadership These are two books about the lessons learned on the battlefield

Myself and Leif Babin wrote the books he was in task unit bruiser as the Charlie platoon commander and And we took the lessons that we learned over there. We brought them back. We started teaching them to the seals that were getting ready to deploy. And we wrote extreme ownership when we got out and started working with companies and saw that all the lessons that we learned transferred to the civilian sector. And then we wrote the dichotomy of leadership as a follow-on book, which some people are saying is better. I don't know which one is better, but I do know that they will make you better. they will make you a better leader.

So check those out. Extreme ownership, dichotomy leadership, Mikey and the Dragons, way of the warrior kid, Mark's mission, and discipline equals freedom, field manual. You can get your brain jacked, which is the word of the day.

Echo, echelon front, that's a leadership consultancy. We solve problems through leadership. So if you have a team, if you have a company, if you have a business, and you want to get your leadership aligned, and you want to get them functioning at the highest level, you can go to echelonfront.com.

We solve problems through leadership. That's what we do. We got the muster coming in 2019, Chicago and Denver, and we're also doing Sydney. So check out Extreme Ownership.com for details on that. All of the past musters have sold out. These musters will sell out as well. So try and get in on it early so that you can come. We actually turned people away.

We turned a pretty good number of people away from muster zero seven in San Francisco and that that doesn't feel good. You feel kind of bad. So try and register early for that. And then of course, EF Overwatch. This is where we are taking people from our old community, the spec ops, special operations community, and the combat aviation community, folks that were leaders and tested as leaders on the battlefield. And now we are taking those tried and tested leaders and placing them into civilian organizations to help the leadership in those companies and teams. You can go to eFoverwatch.com. If you're either a vet that is looking for your next mission or you are a company looking for your next high-level leader.

And if you have more questions or you have answers for us, we are our. available on the interwebs on Twitter on Instagram and on Facebook Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at Jocko Willink and thanks to all the military folks out there that are protecting us from evil around the globe and thanks to police law enforcement firefighters paramedics EMTs correctional officers Border Patrol and all first responders thanks for holding the line 24 hours a day here on the home front and to everyone else out there thank you for your questions but as I said earlier most of these questions you already know the answers to you already

know the right thing to do you already know what you're supposed to do you already know how to get on the warpath and stay on the warpath it's by getting out there every single day and getting after it And until next time, this is Echo and Jocko. Out.