Jocko Podcast - 159: Machiavellian Rules for Warfare, and Life."The Art of War", Niccolo Machiavelli.

Episode Date: January 9, 2019

0:00:00 - Opening. 0:16:00 - "The Art of War", Niccolo Machiavelli. 1:23:15 - Final thoughts and take-aways. 1:32:00 - Support: How to stay on THE PATH. 2:03:44 - Closing Gratitude.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 159 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. There's a terrible feeling in the gut. I was overseas and it's it's this deeply distressed kind of sick feeling and literally feel it in your gut. literally feel it in your stomach, in my stomach. And it's not, it's not the fear, it's not fear. It's not, it's not the fear of death.

Because when you get to a point, when you kind of accept that death is a possibility and you're okay with it, then that fear kind of goes away. And it's not the fear of one of your guys being wounded to kill. It's not that either. Because even that fear, even that fear, you kind of get a control of that fear. Because you know you can't dwell on it. Because you know if you dwell on the fear of one of your guys getting wounded or getting killed, then that's going to detract from the very thing that you're supposed to be doing

that will most likely prevent your guys from being wounded or killed. If you're dwelling on that fear, you won't be doing the thing. things you should be doing like planning and training and preparing and inspecting and reviewing and leading so even that fear while it's persistent and heavy and potent it's you have some level of control over it but when something goes wrong when something happens settles down with its monstrous weight on top of your shoulders because there's no one else to blame that's what I'm talking about and actually I felt it for the first time really a little bit during my first deployment that I did to Iraq and my platoon we we did what we were supposed to do some things

didn't go right nothing crazy but mistakes were made and there was actually back to back to back missions with related targets that we were going after. I was the assault force commander. And I think one of them might have even been the ground force commander. So I was clearly responsible for these missions and there were some mistakes made. And my commanding officer came and spoke to me about it, you know, pulled me aside to point out the mistakes and the resulting impacts that these mistakes were going to have. and he wasn't happy.

I mean, he wasn't, he wasn't mad because we had a good relationship and he was talking to me just straight. But he wasn't happy. And, you know, I kept a calm face and I took ownership and said, hey, my fault, this is the things we're going to do to fix it, you know. But even though I kind of kept a calm face in front of him when he left, I, again, I felt like this retching in my stomach that I had made some kind of mistake. and one of the worst things about it is there's nothing you can do. Like the mistake happened. You can't go back. You can't fix it.

And I can't compare that feeling to anything else really that I've felt. Because I've never felt anything else that feels like that. And I've talked about it with my friends and leadership positions overseas. And like actually the first time is actually Stoner that talked to me about this gut feeling and he had something going on and he's like he's like you know that feeling and I was like oh yeah I know that feeling and like I said I've never I've never felt this feeling this gnawing feeling in your gut that's eating you from the inside I think you see it sometimes if you watch you know some movies try and capture this feeling of where

It's basically where someone's life is falling apart, but they're trying to keep a facade up that everything's going okay. Have you ever seen the movie Fargo? No. Okay, I got you on this one. This movie Fargo, there's a guy, and he's a car salesman, and he's been fudging the numbers, and then he's trying to kill someone.

There's all these things are happening, and it's all. And he's a very, I would say, a very naive person, and he's married and he's got kids and he's trying to do this stuff that's not right and he knows it and it's starting to come apart and that's the kind of thing where you can see it's just eating him from the inside so I think it's that that type of gnawing deep feeling

where everything is going wrong and there's nothing you can do about it that's the closest I think I can come is just when things are going so wrong and there's nothing you can do about it And I think that that feeling That feeling for me I think that's why number one

That's why I always say combat is humbling It's because of that feeling right there Where you something went wrong You couldn't stop it you couldn't control it You can't fix it It is what it is And That makes it humbling

Extremely humbling And because of that It made me I want to make sure that I did everything humanly possible to prevent from that, to prevent that feeling from grabbing hold of me again, if I could help it. It opened up my mind. It made me, it made me always want to listen

to other people's input. Because I always said to myself, wait, if I didn't see what was going on over here, how do I ever know where my blind spots are? I always think I must have blind spots somewhere. There must be something I don't know to see, something I don't understand. How can I listen? I need to make sure I listen to other people's viewpoints and perspective so that I don't,

so I can cover and, yeah, cover as many blind spots as possible. Review other methods and other ideas and other principles to see what I could learn from them. And when people raise opposing points to me, I don't object to them. I don't bristle up and it's It doesn't offend me When somebody says something that that isn't that I don't agree with It doesn't offend me at all In fact I want to know more about it

And as I as I go through my life I try and continue to listen I try to absorb opposing opinions and process them And I want to just understand them I want to understand the context of them I want to understand the perspective of them. It's how I think I'm going to eliminate as many blind spots as possible.

So when someone would tell me like a new tactic, right? A new tactic when I was in the teams and someone would say, hey, we're doing this now. And there's, of course, when somebody tells you something new, there's always a part of you that says, that bristles up to it. And I, again, those humbling situations,

that feeling in my gut, that I didn't want to feel, it pushed that ego down. Because I actually want to hear what your idea is. I want to hear if this is a blind spot I haven't noticed. I want that idea to work. I want to see how it works. I want to see if it works. And sometimes they would work.

And I would learn something. Sometimes they wouldn't. You know, sometimes it would reconfirm the reason. And then that person would learn, hey, the reason we don't do what you're wanting to do is because of this. And so now I'm helping them with a blind spot that they might have. But either way, my goal was always to learn, to hear other people's viewpoints. And that's the way I remain today.

Those other viewpoints are going to make me sharper. I'm going to read things so that I can see them from other angles, understand things from other angles. They can strike, when you understand something from another angle, you can strengthen your position. or you can leave your position if you realize that your position is wrong. And it's going to make me better. And it's making me better not for me, not because I want to be better, but for the people that around me, the people up and down the chain of command, that I'm trying to support them.

So I can do my job better as a leader, as a follower, and as a person. And also, so that I can as much as humanly possible. Avoid that wretched seething, miserable feeling in my guts. So I was thinking a lot about that. And tonight we're going to explore some principles of war, actually called general rules by this individual, Machiavelli. This is the Machiavelli, Niccolo Machiavelli,

this is the guy that wrote the prince. He's got, all kinds of great quotes out there. It's better to be feared than loved if you cannot be both. He's got never, never was anything great achieved without danger. Here's one. If an injury has been done, if an injury has to be done to a man, it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared.

That's pretty ruthless. Here's another one. Hence, it comes about that all armed prophets have been victorious and all unarmed prophets have been destroyed. And one more quick quote. You can just Google Machiavelli in quotes and you'll find a bunch of great ones. Men rise from one ambition to another. First they seek to secure themselves against attack, then they attack others.

And that's actually from the prince, which is his most famous book. And if you think about the process of being a human, human being that right there is very accurate and you can really see that with accuracy if you overlay that on jiu jitsu first you seek to secure yourself from attack and then you attack others right when you're rolling at first when you first start you're just trying to defend just trying not to get choked and then eventually you can stop from getting choked and you can stop from getting arm locked and you start trying to attack those people in armlocked them so that's mackie ovelli and if you don't know anything about him he was an italian

really a politician and a diplomat and but on top of that this was during the renaissance period and he's an actual renaissance man so he was a poet he was a philosopher he was a playwright he was an author of books born in 1469 died in 1527 from 1503 to 1506 he was in charge of the florentine militia and when he was in charge of that militia he didn't like mercenaries because he realized the weakness of mercenaries is that they they're getting paid that's why they're fighting they're not fighting from their true belief system so he raised and recruited a citizen army and they were well respected on the battlefield and they fought in some pretty good battles and won

but it didn't last forever for one 14 was eventually defeated and dissolved and Machiavelli was accused of conspiracy and tortuous And I of course whenever I I go down a lot of rabbit holes, but I went down that torture rabbit hole for a little while yesterday and they pretty brutal about it But he they thought he was a conspirator or whatever he did he even after torture they couldn't get it out of them They eventually just exiled him and that's when he wrote his book the prince which I'm sure we'll cover on here at some point This is where you hear this is where the word Machiavellian yeah You know, that's kind of, it usually refers to his book, The Prince. And usually that word nowadays is used to describe someone that's kind of scheming and unscrupulous.

If like if you look it up in the dictionary, it'll give you a definition along those lines. Like someone that's trying to snake and make things happen. But, and like I said, I'm sure we'll cover that book at some point. But after that, he wrote another book, which is called The Art of War. And it's definitely a really good book. And we will probably parse through the entire thing at some point. But one thing that's good about it is in the end of the book, part seven of the book, and there's, yeah, that's the last part of the book, he basically breaks out the most important

principles from the book which makes it pretty easy and straightforward to to uh to talking to explain them and and then you can get the details and like I said I'm sure we'll get granular at some point on it but here's what he says in this book he's and it's bear with me a little bit only because the the translation is old I know that I've told you many things which by yourself you might have understood and considered. Notwithstanding, I have done it. As today also I have told you for to be able to show you better meaning thereof the quality of this army and also to satisfy those, if there be any, whom have not had the same commodity

to understand them as you. Normie thinks that there are other to tell you than certain general rules, the which you shall have most familiar, which be these. which is his way of saying, listen, I wrote a lot of stuff. I'm glad you understood it, or at least you say you did, but just in case some other people can't understand it, I'm going to break it down for you very simply in these general rules. And like I said, the translation, the translation that I read of this book is called the Tudor translations.

And it's translated by a guy named Peter Whitehorn in 1560. So we're talking like somewhat archaic language and it's a little bit tricky. know to get through but I'll talk through and we'll get into an understandable format and there we go so like I said he says hey look I wrote a lot of stuff here's the general rules that you should be most familiar worth here we go number one the same that helpeth the enemy hurteth thee and the same that helpeth thee hurteth the enemy hurteth the enemy That one's pretty straightforward, right? What benefits the enemy harms you and what benefits you harms the enemy.

Straightforward. I think, you know, that's one of those common principles that across the ages, everyone says, and the reason they say that is because people forget it. People forget that if we're, if we can hurt the enemy in any way, it's helping us. And anything we do that benefits us is going to hurt the enemy. Yeah. So sometimes we forget that. Mm-hmm.

That's why many of these various canons of principles on war remind us of that. Yeah. Because it's an important fact. Number two, he that shall be in war most vigilant to observe the devices of the enemy and shall take most pain to exercise his army, shall ener least paramed. and may hope most of victory. So what does that mean? That means pay attention.

That means be vigilant in observing the methods and plans of the enemy when you're in war. Number one, pay attention to who you're fighting against. Understand who they are. Andy Burke. He was going to do an EBI. I think it was an EBI match. you know who he was going against Craig Jones

You know anything about Craig Jones Yeah Craig Jones is a savage Andy You know he's he's Awesome But we know we're up We're training we're training hard

He goes and competes against him And loses fast Yeah Why do you lose? He lost because Well number one Because Craig Jones is awesome And you know what

Andy's real good at He was good at all of Jiu-Jitsu but he's got real good footlocks got real good heel hooks he likes to play that game you know it's training with me training with D. Lisch Yep, and so he's rolling in didn't know much about Craig Jones in fact he didn't know anything about Craig Jones Oh dang he just oh yeah he's good whatever. Yeah not not not in a disrespectful way right, but you ever heard somebody say Like when they say hey, what do you think about your opponent's left hook or whatever right? Where they say what do you think about your opponent's ground and pound and they say I'm I'm not worried about my opponent.

It's what I'm going to do. It's not what they're going to do. You know what I mean? And I don't mean that in a bad way. I'm not trying to say Andy was cocky. But Andy's thing was like, look, I do jiu-jitsu. Yeah, that was his approach. Yeah, like, I do jih Tijuana.

And also, there's a little bit of like, hey, well, you might go against this guy, but he might get her or you might have this or whatever. You know what I mean? And it was a tournament as well. So you can't really get focused on one guy. You're going to be fighting three or four guys in one night. You just got to get your jit-too game up. Yeah. So Andy rolls in.

and he went right into Craig Jones's game in seconds. And the other thing was, Andy's super relaxed. Like, I mean, he's relaxed anyways. So he's like, oh, okay, this is, you know, we're just going to do some jih Tzu. And it'll escalate over time and eventually, you know, we'll get to that point and whatever. And he goes in and boom. And goes right into, like, one of Craig James is like really good moves. It just goes right into it for him.

And, you know, I was bummed and obviously Andy's bummed, but didn't do any, you know, we, me, I should have been like, hey, man, let's look at your opponents. Let's check out their game. Because if you just know, you know how it is. If you're aware of someone's game, you can definitely mitigate it. You can't defeat it. I'm not saying he could defeat Craig Jones, but he wouldn't have fallen into that in a matter of seconds. He would have been, oh, this is his move there.

I know what to do to at least mitigate the first attack, the second attack, right? If you don't do that, you're going to have problems. And Andy got, and then he came back and he's like, he's like, yeah, that guy's good. So props to my boy, Craig Jones. You beat my, my boy. Hopefully you guys will meet again one day and he'll get another go and he'll know your game a little bit better. But bottom line is, study your opponents. Study your opponents now can you go too far with that? Yeah, you can because some people think oh

I wish that happened sometimes when the UFC someone will miss Wade or they'll get hurt and they'll throw a new opponent mad him. I wasn't ready for that guy had been training for a striker now you're putting me up against a grappler or whatever. Yeah. So you know, uh, sarge this is pretty cool. Sarge who was a really good who was and is a really good wrestler. He's also jiu-jitsu now but he was he said when he would train for wrestling you know because he was a high school wrestler at Poway Which if you know anything about wrestling in California or actually in America you know Poway high school has a like real dominant wrestling program And he was a wrestler there as was his brother But he said when he would train

He would he would picture someone with no face And it's because you know when you're in the high school wrestling scene out here in California you know the people that you're gonna come up against right in a tournament You're gonna come up against these six guys and you know that two of them are good or whatever and But he'd just say nope and when he would look at him he's like when I would look at him Before a match I wouldn't even I just see like a blur just fog in their face And then he said once he would knew he was gonna go against that guy then he'd look at him and a calculate their face and be like I'm gonna kill this guy But that's the why what his point in that was he didn't want to get Like his mind offset by oh it's not who I expected it to be

Right, right. So he wouldn't have any expectation on who it was going to be. He was just going to get in the murder mode. And then when he finally realized that they're walking out on the map, but then he'd look at their face and go, okay, this is the guy. I'm going against that. I'm going to kill him. Yeah.

Which for Sard, you know, that means he actually. So observe the methods and plans of your enemy. Absolutely. Next part of is you have to endure much hardship and training. and training, of course, you've got to train hard. So observe your enemy, know what they're doing, and then train really, really hard, and you're going to have a greater chance for victory, of course. Common sense.

Next one. Number three, never conduct thy men to fight the field. If first thou has not confirmed their minds and knowest them to be without fear and to be in good order. for though for thou oddest never to enterprise any dangerous thing with thy soldiers but when thou seest that they hope to overcome so again we're dealing with some middle english i think you english um linguists people can get at me if i'm wrong but we're pretty close to middle english maybe it's a little late middle english but we're in the ballpark so what is he talking about there Never lead your soldiers into an engagement unless you are assured of their courage. And then he actually says unless you know them to be without fear, which is a stretch in my mind,

because you're going to have people that are going to be afraid. In fact, people are going to be afraid when they're going into combat, 90-something percent, a high percentage of people are going to have some level of fear. But you do need to make sure that they're going to be able to overcome that fear. So if you've got people that are shaking in their shoes and they feel, you know, You think they're not they've not been tested at all. Well, then that could be a real problem. And then the question becomes, okay, well, how do you test

if someone's going to be afraid or not? What do you think they do in the military? With people. What do they do? What to make them not scared? Yeah. Yeah. How do you test their fear?

Put them in scary situations. They put them in scary situations in training. Make them repel off the high tower. Yeah. Make them send them to airborne school. Hey, airborne school? I would say, you know, of course there's there's some level of some things that you need to learn in airborne school. But you're basically, I mean, you can literally throw a sack of potatoes out of an airplane with a parachute on and it's going to land up pretty much okay most of the time.

And that's what you do. When you go to the school, you learn the proper exit procedures when I went to airborne school. It's like, hey, here's the exit procedures. Here's how you land. You're floating down. You don't have much control over your parachute. So there's not a lot to. learn technically. It's not like a major skill set. I mean, let me put it this way. It's a three

week school, right? It's not like it's not a long intensive school about learning how to pack parachutes or even how to maneuver yourself through the air because there's only so much you can do. So what is it that's important about airborne school? What's important about airborne school is you're going to overcome the fear of jumping out of a damn airplane. That's important. That's why an Airborne, you go talk to the 82nd Airborne Division or the 101st Airborne Division. Those guys are awesome. And they have that little thing that they've all done that has put them, they've been screened out a little bit because some people are going to be afraid.

So yes, that's what you do. You make people do hard, scary things. I mean, in the SEAL teams, it's the same thing. What do they do? You're going to learn how to parachute. Then you're going to parachute at night. They're going to parachute at night into the water. Then you're going to jump out of a helicopter at night at, you know, 20 feet.

into the darkness and with a boat and you're going to rig that thing up and you're going to dive at night and you're going to swim at night in the open ocean like you're oh you're just going to go that scares some people for some reason it's never really scared me yeah I have no fear of sharks let me rephrase that I have no fear that a shark is randomly going to bite me like if I was in the water and there were sharks I'd be scared yes and I know that there's sharks in the water so that you guys should be scared but I don't know I feel lucky yeah I feel like sharks don't really will want to eat me very much they'd rather eat like someone like you well I guess if you're on a surfboard I guess that increases the chances from what I understand yeah yeah because you look like a seal sure like a like a sea animal seal so that's what you do you put people in situations where they're going to be afraid you know and this is something that I think everyone should do if you have a job that's going to cause stress you want to put people in stressful situations so that's how you test that fear and again And you're not going to be able to remove the fear from people.

What you want to figure out is can they overcome the fear? That's what you want to figure out. What else you say? Know that they're organized. Never make an attempt unless you see they hope for victory. So you've got to convince, if you're telling your guys like, hey, we're probably going to lose. You don't want to say that. You say, look, it's going to be hard, but there's a chance we can take this.

You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. You've got to get them in that attitude, not the attitude. of like, oh, we're just going to lose. We're just going out here for no reason. Yeah. Don't let that happen. Yeah.

Number four. It is better to conquer the enemy with famine than with iron. In the victory of which fortune may do more than valiantness. That one's pretty self-explanatory. It's better to defeat the enemy by hunger than steal. You know, it's better to let him starve than have to go and fight them. And then he says, in such a victory, the fortune, like your luck counts more than valiantness,

which is cool, understandable. This is one of those things where you've heard me say before. The best victories are the victories where a person doesn't even know that you're fighting them. That's the best victory. And then if you can maintain your ego after you win and you don't gloat, then they never even, they didn't even register it.

Yeah, right? They didn't know they were in a fight. They didn't even know they were in a fight. That's what you want. this is very similar but but this part I'll throw a little back at it in such fortune victory counts more

than valiantness yeah good fortune's going to help but guess what we're going to make our own luck right we're going to make our own luck that's what we're going to do and we're going to make bad luck for the enemy we're going to dry up rivers we're going to damn rivers so they can't grow

food that's what we're going to do so we're going to cut off supply chains, that's what we're going to do. We're going to make fortune favor us. Number five, no purpose is better than that, which is hidden from the enemy until you have executed it. Boom, pretty straightforward. No plan is better than that,

which you have concealed from the enemy until the time you execute it. No doubt. True in life, true in business, true in jiu-in-jitsu. That's what, just essentially the element of surprise. A little surprise. If your enemy doesn't know what you're going to do. Yeah. And then you're done.

And they go, oh, that was a nice arm lock. Yeah. Or wow, you really took over that market share and I didn't see it coming. Yeah, yeah. If you don't see it coming, that's really it. They see it coming from a mile away. It's like, oh. Yeah.

You can still do that sometimes. Dean does that. Yeah, but we talked about that. But he does different things, though. Like, yeah, yeah. He'll like. Many, many steps. Yeah, yeah.

He'll tie up your defense. While it's on when you when you see the incoming he ties up all your defenses like as it gets close Number six to know in the war how to understand occasion and to take it helpeth more than any other thing To know in war how to understand occasion and take it helpeth more than any other thing What does that mean that means you one of the best skills you can have is knowing how to recognize a good opportunity in war or in life and take advantage of that opportunity. That is more beneficial than anything else. And you know what the biggest and most blatant example where you see this?

Well, your kids aren't old enough, but with kids, just kids. Kids have so much opportunity in life. Yeah. And they just don't take advantage of it like they should. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

I could see how that could be for. Sure. But I think that's because they have hard time connecting now and then the future, you know. I guess that's the thing. Yeah. There's no doubt that they have. There's no doubt that they have that athletes. Yeah.

Real good athletes, same thing. They have all this potential. Yeah. Anytime someone, well, not anytime, oftentimes somebody that are, some people that are given a gift. Yeah. It's just given to them. They don't have to work for it. They don't want to take advantage of it.

They don't see the opportunity. They don't take advantage of the opportunity. Yeah, whatever that skill set is. Yeah. Yeah, almost like, you know, when you give a kid a gift or money versus if they earn it. Yep. I think you covered that way of the warrior kid. Yeah, that's way covered on way of the warrior kid.

Yeah. So when you earn it, it's like you know the hard work sort of it takes and you kind of appreciate it and then whatever comes out of that. But yeah, if it's given to you, you just, you run the risk of squandering it for sure, especially when the going, kind of gets rough, you know. Yeah. No doubt. Next. Nature breedeth few strong men.

The industry and the exercise makeeth many. What does that mean? That means, you know, nature makes very few strong, brave men. But hard work and training makes many. Boom. You got to work for it. Yeah, you want people to be brave you want people to be have courage make them strong Make them work hard me that will absolutely increase their bravery remember that question we got asked a while ago about how do I make my unit

Guys in a military military unit how do I make them proud how do I increase their level of pride train hard? Yeah, they will get physically stronger they will get mentally stronger and from that They will start to take pride in themselves and pride in themselves as a unit Eight discipline may do more in war than fury Figured you'd like that one yeah kind of like that one discipline counts more than fury in war Discipline counts more than fury in life I'm not discounting emotions I'm not doing that because you can't because sometimes man And people's emotions, they get, they will carry them through a really tough time period. That's why in discipline equals freedom in the field manual, I talk about how you got to use them both.

You get to use logic and you've got to use emotions. And when sometimes when emotionally it doesn't make any sense or you're going to break emotionally, you've got to go with the logic of the situation like, I got to drive through this. And vice versa. Sometimes the logic is like this makes no sense whatsoever. You've got to turn to the emotional side. But discipline, he says may do more. And he's right.

It's not 100% it's like discipline because if you have people that are just disciplined but they have no heart They have no emotion. How good are they? They're not that good. They're not they're not as good as the person that has both There's not as good as a person that has discipline and a little bit of fury They can kind of get crazy when they need to but in MMA you see this You'll see someone when they're young and they'll lose some fights because they'll they'll sit someone down Or whatever and then they'll just go crazy trying to catch me. They'll get caught a triangle Yeah

you have to maintain your discipline. Even during the the actual battle, you have to maintain your discipline. You can't let the fury get a hold of you. Yeah, too much. Disciplined fury. Disciplined fury, yeah. You watch the cyborg fight, right?

The recent one is sure of Amanda Nunes. Yes. So this is what it seemed like is fast, but this is what it looked like, where cyborg landed like a solid one. And Amanda Nunes as a response, unleashed fury like some legit fury fury but it was disciplined fury because when she started landing hard ones she didn't like over commit it was like really

balance you know she looked great but there was some there was a lot of fury there was some fury like it wasn't like all just boom calculated like punches it was there was fury and Tim Kennedy someone's like the UFC tweeted out like she's throwing haymakers and Tim He's like those aren't haymakers because every single one of them hit. Yeah. They were full punches from Amanda that were nailing cyborg right in the head. Yeah.

And most of the time like five times in a row. You don't normally see five punches land. Yeah. Especially not punches that are thrown with that much fury. Yeah. You can kind of tell when like you see like their feet when they're, you know, throwing punches like you get. there's like a huge forward lean if they're haymakers.

There's like these huge forward leans and they're usually pressing forward like fully. But when they're like disciplined, there's like that you can see the balance. Like they'll back up just a little bit. So good. Yeah, it's good. So good. Yeah. That's crazy.

Discipline may do more than fury. So you know what? Make sure you have some discipline in life. All right. Next one. Number nine. When any depart from the enemy's side for to come. to serve thee when they be faithful they shall be unto thee always great gains for that power

of the adversaries are more diminished with the loss of them that run away than those that be slain although that the name of a fugitive be to new friends suspected and old to odious too old odious so what is he's talking about traitors there. That's what he's talking about. So when you say, when they need depart from the enemy side to come serve you, so when people leave the enemy and they come to serve with you, they're going to be more loyal. And they're a great acquisition. And actually, he's saying that people that leave the enemy and come to your side are more

powerful for you than people that you've killed. And they have more value. the when they come aboard your team they're going to be suspected you know that the old the your team is going to look at him with like a cautious eye and the team that they left are going to hate them yeah they're going to hate them that was weird when solsonitzin was saying that when they would capture the russian turncoat soldiers that were now fighting for the nazis as soon as they spoke any russian they'd kill them that was that was a pretty scary thought. So this is very accurate

from that perspective. Yeah. Like if you're a traitor, we're not even going to give you a chance. We're just going to kill you. Yeah. Wait, so who, wait, who, so the Russians the Russians didn't kill him. No, so there was a whole group of Russian

soldiers that turned against Stalin and turned against Russia and started fighting for the Nazis. Yeah. And so when the Russians would capture those what they considered to be traitors. As soon as they heard a

soldier speaking Russian, they'd kill them. The Nazis, you mean? They were Russian soldiers fighting for the Nazis. Was it Vossel? That was the guy's name. So there was a German, or sorry, a Russian general that was the leader of that whole group.

The Vossal Army, I think, was the name. Yeah. And so when the Russian, Stalin's Russian actual red soldiers would capture these traitors that were fighting against them now Yeah

Yeah They would If they heard them speaking Russian They'd kill him Hmm So this is From that perspective It's accurate

Hmm Yeah I wonder why they're more valuable you think Because what Because Or loyal You said loyal Right too

Well the The Russian soldiers That were now Fighting for the Nazis They would fight to the death because they knew that they were dead anyways and they got captured.

Yeah, like if they got, yeah. So yeah, they were, they would fight even harder. The thing that I'm not sure about this is, well, I guess I agree with it. I do agree with it. When someone's a traitor, you're suspect of them, right?

Yes. You know, you're just, you're just like, hey, if you're a cheater, you're a traitor, I'm suspect to you. So it's going to take a little time for me to actually trust that you really came to my side. Yeah.

But I guess like when you think, about just like how you said you know they know they're dead anyway kind of thing where it's like okay let's say mean you were enemies whatever and one of my guys goes to you and says hey i give up i'll help you i give up you're like okay he gives up i get it yeah and let's see what he has to offer kind of thing yeah but i'm suspect yeah but you're suspect but let's say a guy in your team used to be on my team and i know that i'm pissed at that guy yeah and then he gives up now to me to my guys like my guys see him or whatever And he's like, hey, I give up.

I'll help you. Oh, no, no, no. You don't give up. You're dead. Yeah. So it's like that. Like how you say they know they're dead anyway. That's exactly what the Russians did to the vossal soldiers.

Yeah. Oh, you traded? Okay, cool. You're dead. And that makes sense, right? So that's probably why they have to be loyal because it's either loyal to your death. You know, they can't give up anymore. If I am not a trader, I can give up and be P-O-W, be whatever.

I can give up. I have that option. Trader, who already made the trade, he doesn't have that option. And that's why he's loyal. He has to be like that. At a minimum, he's going to fight to the death. Yeah. And it's interesting, too, that traders are, you know, in the business world.

Because in the business world, you know, there's everyone's always recruiting. There's a limited number of the human capital limits in the world. And we can only get so many people that can do this job. And if you have skills in that job, you're getting recruited all the time. And so that's. that hurts when they leave. And that's why, and just to kind of close the loop on this, when they leave almost all the time,

the reason that they're leaving is because of leadership. Or I should say lack of leadership inside their organization. So if you have a problem hanging on to people in your organization, it's most likely a leadership problem, not a comp problem, not a midlife crisis problem for the employee, it's a leadership problem. Because good people will stay with good leaders.

And if there's not good leaders, they're looking for another job, they're looking for another way, they're looking for another opportunity. Makes sense. Leadership, leadership, leadership. Get some. Number 10.

Better it is in pitching the field to reserve behind the first front aid enough than to make the front. bigger to disperse the soldiers, what that's saying is it's better to keep your reserves just behind them. Keep some reserves just behind the front lines rather than spread out your reserves and take on a bigger front, try and hold more areas. It's better to, you know, this is prioritized next year, right? Keep your, keep your focus of effort. Even with your reserves, keep focus of effort. Keep them consolidated so you can utilize them well.

Next up number 11. He is difficultly overcome which can know his own power and the same of the enemy. Okay. That was almost like a Yoda type. He is difficultly overcome. So what we're saying there is it's hard to overcome someone who knows how to recognize or knows and understands his own power. and the power of the enemy so does that mean know your strengths and weaknesses that's what it means yes Sun Tzu says that right yes something about yes deal definitely number

12 the valiantness of the soldiers availeth more than the multitude sometimes the situation helpeth more than the valiantness okay so what we're talking about there is that the bravery of the soldiers is worth more than the number of soldiers you have. Makes sense. If you have brave, courageous soldiers, they can take a lot more, and they can do a lot more than people or soldiers that are afraid. So you want brave soldiers. And then it says, the site, what does it say?

That sometimes the situation helpeth more than the valiantess. So even that what trumps, they're courageous and what Trumps, the bravery is what's the what's the terrain situation you know what's the environment that you're in what are the rules of the game what are the rules the game that you're playing because if you if you know the rules you're going to be in a a much better situation the uh this happens in jiu jitsu right yes because the rules are always a little bit different there's no unified set of rules in jiu jitsu yeah there's some close but there's no unified set of rules And sometimes someone will lose simply because they don't know the rules.

Yeah. And then once you know the rules, you got to train to the rules. Yes. Like EBI. Yes. EBI, you have those positions that you start in. If you're in overtime, you start in SpiderWeb, you start on the back, right? Right.

If you don't, if once you know those rules, then you got to practice those positions. So you can finish the arm lock. So you can finish from the back or you can escape from either one of those two. Yeah. If you don't know that and you don't practice it. Because like, for instance, I'm pretty good at finishing on arm lock. pretty good at finishing an arm lock sure on the back I normally transition from the back to another position so I would if I was going to an EBI tournament I'd have to go and

focus on what that rule set is and make sure I know how to win from that position yeah yeah fully yeah big one is the submission only versus points so if people like let's say they spend ten years competing with points in the tournaments, you know. Then they go to submission only with a guy who's only trained in submission only. He's going to have an advantage. Yeah.

In all these different, yeah, different ways because certain rules don't apply. Some do. Yeah. And the terrain part, man, this is, this is, it took me a while to understand this in my Navy career,

how important terrain is. And now it's so obvious. But when you're, maneuvering on the battlefield if you know how to read terrain well you have a complete advantage over the enemy Complete advantage over the enemy you should be paying attention to that terrain studying maps Looking at it now they have all these You can you can simulate the earth right? It's a Google Maps like a high speed where you can get down at I level and you can walk the terrain and really understand what the visibility is like that's the kind of that's that's

That's you should you got to take advantage of those tools You got to understand the terrain you got to understand the terrain you got to understand the terrain that you're going into in the business world you go got to go into a company understanding what the situation is there when you get hired into a new company you want to know the terrain you want to know who's got the clout yep you want to know who the movers and shakers are you want to know what things are off limits and whatever yeah I don't know who's buying like you know how they you know people always say this was a billion dollar industry right like

that kind of stuff like oh is you know how's the what's the need for your product I'm remembering because I watch shark tank this is what they always ask what was the was this a particular product no no everyone like pretty much that's one of the things like they ask or they say they'll be like oh yeah this is like a million how you know a million people own pets you know and all these pets need this you know so you see you see I'm saying so they kind of they got another terrain in that way yeah that's true they don't know how many people have pets then they don't know how many people gonna buy that shampoo you know so you gotta know that one dude shark tank we maybe we should just do a leadership show about

shark tank what you've learned from shark tank sure next up new and sudden thing make armies afraid slow and accustomed things be little regarded of them therefore make thy army practice and to know with small fights new enemy before thou come to fight the field with him. Middle English coming at you. So what is that? Basically what we're saying here is number one, new and surprising things frighten armies. New and surprising things frighten people. So on the opposing to that, customary and expected things they can handle. So what do you do? How do you do? How do? How do you how do you properly mitigate that therefore you practice and you fight small engagements to get

them experienced before you go to battle on the big battlefield with them with the enemy that's what you do train hard don't dive right in get them used to the new technology that that's what you do this is good another good one with kids right you'll throw your kid into this scenario that they haven't been into before you give them a little taste of it. Oh yeah, this is exposure therapy once again. I get asked on the Warrior Kid Podcasts. I get asked every, like every day I get at least one question from a kid that's I'm afraid of, what do I do? And I, I'm usually wait two or three podcasts before I answer the same question again.

Because it's kids, they got to get the repetition. They've got to get the reps in. Yeah. But it's exposure therapy. You're afraid of something? Cool do a little bit of it then do a little bit more and that's unknowingly what I did in a way the warrior kid won With him overcoming his fear of the water I didn't know that that was a real thing not until Jordan Peterson's like this is called exposure's therapy

Yeah, yeah, I guess I need to talk like Kermit to frog to imitate Jordan but but he's like yeah, that's exposure therapy Yeah, oh okay Next number 13 I'm not on to number 14 He that with disorder follow with the enemy after that he is broken will do no other than to become of a conqueror, a loser. If you pursue a routed enemy in a disorganized manner, victory will be lost and you'll become a loser. Keep it under control, a la Amanda Nunez. Right? She had the victory.

And you ever seen that one real quick clip? and I forget who the fighter is that did it is in UFC. The guy takes a body shot and he keels over like he's about to like go down and the dude comes running in swinging the dude that's keeled over like he's hurt just crack. He wasn't hurt. He was just faking it.

Yeah, I think he was hurt. Talk about Scott. Yeah, maybe he was hurt but he wasn't hurt as bad as he came across. He's functional. Apparently. Apparently he's functional because he knocked the dude out. Yeah, it was the last thing His nickname is Drago, I know that. It's interesting that that stuff doesn't happen more often.

It's like trick football plays. Yeah. How come more trick football plays don't happen? Because they'd lose their trickery element of it. And sometimes there's a lot of risk involved. There's more risk than like a traditional play a lot of times. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's like the rope adope. Remember that? The rope adope. Oh, like, Muhammad Ali. Yeah, you essentially like act like you're kind of hurt or tired or whatever. And then they punch themselves out. and you get them. But yeah,

yeah, yeah, you got to be careful on that kind of stuff. So when you do have your enemy on the run, don't go after them crazy. Keep it under control.

Yeah, there is a play in football called the reverse, right? And I thought that because you just said, why don't they run? Because, you know,

I didn't play football. Yeah. And when you see the trick plays, then you think, well, that seemed to work, pretty good. Why don't they do that stuff more often? Yeah. Yeah, okay. So here's

a common trick play, right? The quarterback does a sweep, right? To the running back that runs the outside and then the running back, oh, he stops before he reaches the line of scrimmage, he stops and he throws the football not to a receiver but to the quarterback who ran a route on the other side of the field and because no one's going to

cover the quarterback. He's not a receiver, you know? And now he's wide open to pass. That he's wide open. What's that called? We called it pass back to the quarterback. So they're like 38th suite pass back to the quarterback. Okay. But I can see where there's risk in that one. Yes, because that's a running back.

He's not a quarterback. So he got to nail that throw, which is really hard for running back typically. But I'd say the one that would always work is in Pop Warner anyway. It would always work is the reverse. It's essentially like you do a sweep. Everyone's running this way to block for this running back. Everyone except for the one tight end or the wide receiver,

whatever who's coming this way and the running back hands it off to him going this way. So he's full speed running this way. So everyone has to change direction to chase them. And usually that side of field's wide open. It works way better in Pop Warner and younger teams because they don't know like these these situations. Like they don't know. They just see everyone running there and they just sort of go, you know, more than a professional. They're going to be like, wait, I shouldn't just be, you know.

But that was one. I was like, why don't we just always run the reverse? Because every time this is this team that we played against, they'd always run it and it always worked. I understand why if you ran it every time, well then the regular reverse or the regular play would become the surprise. But it seems like you could keep people guessing a little bit more.

Those trick plays always see, I always look at him and I was pretty creative and pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. I think you see it like kind of like I said, like when you go up in like skill, like you go into the pros or whatever trick plays don't work is good.

They have to be really advanced trick plays. That's when you... Have you ever seen like the trick play that like where they like almost walk off the field? Yeah. And then they like walk over like there's something wrong with the ball or something like stand up and they'll be like no, something's wrong and they want. And then they just start running.

Yeah. Yeah. So even that and then those can backfire too because they'll be like if all it takes is one defensive person to know that, hey, that ball is in play right now. So they can just sort of walk over and hit it out of the head. grab it from whatever they want because no one's blocking them you know no one's like everyone it's kind of it's just risky check you get more people doing that they're gonna be like oh they're hip to it anyway it would never work after a while um number 15 he that

prepareth not necessary victuals to live upon is overcome without iron so um whoever does not prepare food and provisions necessary to live is going to be overcome without any weapons at all. So what does that mean? Take care of your people. Make sure you take care of your logistics. Logistics wins wars and people need to survive. So do that. Number 16, he that trusteth more in horsemen than in footmen or more in footmen than in horsemen must accommodate himself with the situation. So in the ancient times you had cavalry on horses and you had the infantrymen on feet. And he's saying if you prefer one over the other, then you have to put yourself in the right situation

where it's advantageous. So that's why it's good to be well-balanced and not really prefer one over the other. But if you do, then put yourself in a situation that's most advantageous to your style or preference of fighting. But make sure you learn how to wrestle. Because if you don't know how to wrestle,

someone else is going to dictate to you where that fight's going to go. 17. When thou write, see if in the day there be coming any spy into the camp cause every man

to go into his lodge. Okay, so what we're saying is pretty straightforward. Basic headcount. If you want to see if there's a spy in the camp, I would send everyone to their place. You know, get a head count. No big deal.

18. Change purpose when thou perceives that the enemy hath foreseen it. What does that mean if you think the enemy or if you perceive that the enemy knows what you're doing, then change your plan. That's what that means. Pretty straightforward.

Now, where we don't do that, or the reason most of the time, we don't do that is because of our ego. We got our plan, and we're going to stick to it. Now, this is a total, this is why leadership is hard. Because there's a point where your plan,

you got your, plan and if you stick to your plan you can it's gonna work right and then there's a point where you stick in your plan you're sticking with the plan and it's gonna fail because it's not working so as a leader this is one of the hardest things to do as leaders to recognize like you know what the plan that I came up with it's not going to be perfect but it's still going to work and we're going to go with it because to try and change the plan halfway through is really hard to do even if you rehearse the contingencies now if you rehearse the contingencies properly you're probably going to be able to execute your new plan pretty easily.

But if you didn't, it's going to be a problem. So this is one of the hardest things for a leader to do is to pay enough attention and then weigh the risk versus reward. Because if you're coming up with, if you have your plan and you're executing the plan and all of a sudden something changes, it's not quite what you thought. You decide you're going to try and do something completely different. What your changes that you make on the fly are going to cause as much confusion as what the enemy is doing.

And it's going to be a real problem. However, like this says, if the enemy says, if the enemy, sees what you're doing and now they're reacting to it in a proper way and your plan is no longer effective. You have to be able to, you have to be able to comprehend that and discern whether you should change or not. And that's one of the hardest decisions for a leader to make as it's happening. What's worse than that is we have a long period of time. When you start talking about strategic plans, this is where ego gets more involved. Because when I have this plan and this is what we're going to do,

and I'm just going to stick with it. And if it's not working, I'm going to do it harder. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's what you want to watch out for. You know, there's like some of these companies being taken down by online companies, right? You've got to change your game plan. Yeah. You know, you got to adjust.

You got to look at them and say, okay, what are they doing? Where are they going? You know, Blockbuster. Like I've said this before, Blockbuster could have completely dominated Netflix. But what did they do? No, we're just over here. Hey, people are going to keep coming to our stores. You know, there's a certain feeling that you get when you come into a store

and you get to look at it on brows with the movies. It's almost like you get to pick up popcorn. Where are you going to get popcorn at your house? You know, people are going to want to keep coming into these stores. No, actually, they're not. They already have popcorn at their house. Amazon delivered it yesterday in an hour, by the way. Yeah.

And then you're terrain too on that one. And yet, they had all the relationships with the movie places. what are those movie companies called? What are the production companies? What's Warner Brothers? What is that? Yeah, production studio. Yeah.

Oh, they had a studio. They got the relationships with the studios. They could have been like, hey, we're going to start selling this stuff online. Yeah. And they would have said, well, that doesn't make any sense because it's going to be all jumbled up when it gets downloaded. Yeah, but it's going to get better. We're just playing the long game. Yeah, it's weird.

Instead, they were thinking, you know, it's too hard to download a movie on the internet. It's going to be jumbled up. There's going to be buffering. No one even knew what, did Netflix invent buffering? No, buffering is just an internet situation. Yeah, when it has to catch up. But do you remember five years ago? There was buffering on all kinds of stuff.

Now there's hardly any buffering. Barely any buffering. I bet my littlest daughter doesn't even know what buffering is. She's in there just streaming. I'm sure she knows what it is, but she has never witnessed it. Yeah. Well, then again, you know, you get bad service somewhere. Yeah.

Get some buffering. They weren't wrong. They were wrong, Blockbuster. But they just, the whole idea of like people like coming into Blockbuster and browsing the movies and buying the thing is that's true. Like we did like doing that. Yeah. But it's because we didn't have a better option. You know?

Like when you go, like even going to the store, sometimes it's kind of cool and fun, you know, sometimes. But most of the time at the end of the day, I'd rather press a button and then go to the store. I'd rather press a button too. Every single time. Yeah. And there's also that thing where you, you. It's a positive feedback loop, right? It's an echo chamber.

I like going to, you know, two of those people in the, in the C suite of Blockbuster, like, you know, my wife loves going down and picking out a new movie with the kids. They love doing that, you know? And someone's like, yeah, you know, my kids love that too.

And my teenage daughter likes doing it too with her friends. And like you said, that's because there's no other option. Yeah. Your teenage daughter would be rather being alone in a room clicking on the next Netflix movie.

Yep. Poppin air popcorn that got delivered earlier. Yeah. So, if you are on a strategy and it's not working, you've got to recognize that you need to change it. Note to self, everyone in the leadership position. Pay attention to that one.

Next up, number 20. Soldiers when they abide at home are maintained with fear and punishment after when they are led to the war with hope and with reward. What's it saying is when soldiers are confined to their quarters. They're kept there by fear and punishment. when they're led to war, they're led by hope and reward. You know, fear for me is just not a good tool for a leader to use, period.

I'm not saying you never, this is, I'm not saying you should never use it, right? There should be some element, a little element of fear, right? Just a little bit of fear. Sure. Right? Let me ask you this, do your kids have any fear of you at all? Because you seem real nice.

Yeah. They do, yeah. There's, there's at least enough. A healthy element. Yeah, I mean, I would say, yeah, healthy, but I don't know. I don't really know what the standard of healthy fear levels are, but yeah. We agree that there is a healthy level of fear. I agree with you.

Even with your kids. Yes. Your kids shouldn't just think that there's going to be no repercussions for anything that they do. Yeah. Your troops should also feel a healthy level of fear. Yeah. And it's hard to even use that word because the word is so negative. Yeah.

but there should at least be a level of like, you know what? Right. We want to do that. Yeah. No, there's a line with Jocko and you don't want to cross it.

Yeah. There's a line with dad, Echo. He seems real nice and all cruisy. I think I am a little bit too cruisy, though, for sure. So sometimes you do have to make sure people understand that if they cross the line, there's going to be a problem. And my kids definitely understand.

they cross the line, it's gonna be a problem. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, it's a real problem. That doesn't surprise me. And it keeps them in check. Yeah. Next up, 20, and I'm pretty lenient. I'm pretty cruisy.

You're actually surprisingly cruisy and lenient. Everyone thinks I want to be the great Santini. You've probably never seen that movie. Yeah. But you don't want to raise your kids like that. What's the great Santies? Well, you don't want to be all militant and impose discipline on your kids and make them number one, reliant on your discipline

instead of their discipline. I don't want to, you don't want anyone like that. You don't want your team to be like that where they're reliant on you barking at them to tell them what to do. You don't want that. Then they can't function for themselves. You don't want your kids to be that way either.

You know what? I need to make a good decision. I could slack off or I could do what I'm supposed to do. I'm going to do what I'm supposed to do because I know it's going to be beneficial in the end. As opposed to I'm going to do it only because I'm afraid that my dad's going to yell at me or ground me. or take away my computer or smash one of my favorite toys.

Yeah. Yeah, you don't, you, I mean, the assumption, I think, anyway, would be that you're, like, more drill sergeant-e. Yeah. I'm not even drill sergeant-e. I'm never. I know. You know, you're not.

But I think it's, like, when you look at you, or maybe if you just said, like, one or two sound bites, then you're like, oh, he's Joseph. There's recordings, many recordings of when I used to debrief seal platoons. Okay. And I'm going to try and get some of those. And what is it? They're just, well, it's definitely, I could see it's not drill, Sergeant E.

Yeah. But it's definitely direct and can be pretty harsh from time to time. So like that's what I understand people would probably, but that was usually, it would only be that way if somebody really did something egregious. Because most of the time, it'd be like, hey, what do you think? What were you thinking about over here? Debrief me on that. You know what I mean? So.

Yeah. And it's all contextual too. Like, you know, I guess it's kind of natural. Like, let's say I have. heard that right I didn't really know you're nothing and I heard that and be like okay he's real direct and real real strict and like all this stuff so it's just natural to be like oh because he's that kind of guy you know rather than kind of the understand the nuance like okay he's talking to these people at this time yeah and then versus but then again then that it opens it up who knows then how

you'd be so you just your mind just sort of wants to just attach yeah what they have witnessed you know to everything yeah well even drill instructors aren't Like drill instructors. Yeah. I mean, it's a it's a training methodology. Yeah. There's a purpose for them to act that way. See, and you know that because you've been around these people.

That type of leader doesn't function. That type of leader is not good. That type of person isn't going to function within a team. Yeah. So you can't you just can't be that way. Is there a level of intensity? Sure. Do I bring it a level of intensity sometimes?

Yes, absolutely. Yes, sir. but that's not the way to go through life imposing discipline and fear into your team you'll end up with either one of two things a broken team that relies on you for their discipline or a team that mutinies against you and comes up and kills you frags you in the as they did in the nom next number 21 good captains come never to fight the field except necessity strain them and occasion call them. So what that's saying is good,

you know, good captains, good leaders never enter into the engagement unless it's completely necessary. That's a great point. And this is one of those things where if you're in a leadership position, you shouldn't be doing the,

you shouldn't be shooting your gun at the enemy. You should be observing your team, shooting the gun and looking to see where the enemy is maneuvering to. Yeah. This is a, this is about detachment. right here.

Don't get in the mix. Stay detached. Decentralized command. Let the team maneuver. Let them understand what the commander's intent is and let them maneuver towards victory. You stay back a little bit and monitor. Go diving in there.

Does that apply to? Because you're the one who kind of said this example to me one time. I forget if it was on here or not, but you're like, it was about when your kids tying their shoes, you know? Yeah. Let's say like, I don't know. You're late for school. or we're running later, whatever,

and they're having a hard time tying the shoes. You're like, let them tie the shoes. Don't jump in and be like, oh, do it. I did say that, and I've said it a bunch of times. That's a real simple example. That's a little bit more towards the last question or towards the last discussion that we just got into. I mean, if you tie your shoes for your kids all the time,

they don't learn how to tie them. And furthermore, you literally are taking away their opportunity to learn some fine motor skills at that moment. This is not the same as that. This is on a broad, perspective your team is doing so your team is in a firefight and you pick up your gun you go on the front line and you start shooting at the enemy well now who's leading right who's looking around yeah this is the same as you know you're in a business

situation and your team is trying to come up with a plan and they're arguing amongst themselves and you jump in there and start arguing too now you don't have a good perception of you should be just standing back listening to the various arguments take place I'm not talking about arguments where people are yelling and screaming I'm talking about a discussion where they're arguing doing different possible courses of action. If you dive right into those and you start becoming involved at point blank range, you lose all your perspective.

So instead, you step back. You don't, you don't go into the field. Yeah. You don't dive into the argument. You step back and you watch the fight unfold. And then as the fight unfolds, you see the best options because you're at altitude and you're not at point blank range one foot from the enemy fire. Yeah.

This is just detached, decentralized command. Next up. 22. Cause that the enemies know not how thou right order thy army to fight. And in whatsoever manner that thou ordainedst it, make that the first band be received of the second and the third. Middle English, get some. What are we talking about here?

Well, cause your enemies, no, not. So that means you don't want your enemies to understand how you're going to organize your your army to fight. That's what this is. You want to confuse your enemy. You don't want them to know exactly what you're going to do. And then the second part, make it, make that the first band may be received the second and third.

I'm pretty sure. I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure that that's just talking about mutually supporting positions. So you want to set your team up so that they can support each other. So confuse the enemy, don't give up the plan and set your teams up so they can help each other. Once a team is alone and unsupportable, they're alone. Try not to let that happen. 23.

In the fight, never occupy a battle to any other thing than to the same for which thou hast appointed it if thou wilt make no disorder. It's a good day. It's modern English appreciation. What makes it hard to do is they spell even words that you know they spell them all different and just so you know you're looking at this I Actually tightened up some of the spelling and made some of the spelling more modern because I just could it was harder to track man Yeah, it's harder to track again this this thing was interpreted from Italian in 1560 By George was it George Whitehead was getting after the translation Yeah, so

It just it's it's interesting and this is the same thing you know I said that when we did Shakespeare I need to do more Shakespeare but people think oh I should just understand Shakespeare you're not gonna understand Shakespeare it's almost a different language so you need to actually break it down like we're doing with these various statements so what this one is saying is don't use a company don't use a don't use a unit for a purpose other than what you've assigned it unless you want to cause disorder unless you want to cause chaos so you've got your team they're assigned to do this let them do that now obviously that can be problematic

so we need to mitigate that because there's times when team is going to have to do something that you don't want it to do and so i'll give you a little example when you're doing an assault on a target you have two elements, the base element and the maneuver element. The base element is going to stay in position. They're going to sneak up on the target. And then the maneuver element's going to sneak over to the flank. And then the base element's going to start firing massive firepower out the target. And then the maneuver element after a little bit will stand up and start to go through the target.

They shift fire off the target. And then you clear the target. So when I was a young kid in the dorms, parking, so we would, we would, you know, like, let's do this. Yeah, so we're going to hit this target. We're going to do a fire and maneuver on this target, base and maneuver. So what we would do is say, okay, let's take all of our heavy machine guns and put them in the base element. And then the guys with the little P shooters, the little M-16 P-shooters,

all those guys will be on the assault because they're light and they'll be able to maneuver really quickly through the, get to the target and then go through the target. Makes perfect sense. And I remember the first time I presented this type of plan to one of the old guys from NOM. He's like, no, don't do that. Why not, Master Chief? This way we have more firepower in our base and our maneuver guys can maneuver more quickly.

Here's the problem. When that maneuver element is going towards the target, what happens if they get compromised and contacted? And now they're the ones that have to lay down. on their base. They can't get up and move because they're being shot at. So guess who has to move? The base element has to move.

And they can't move very well if they're only getting cover fire from little P-shooters. So you keep your integrity of your squads and you utilize them that way. And it's like, oh. So what you want to do in this situation is you want to make sure that your elements can are capable of doing each other's jobs. Maybe not to the fullest extent. but they at least need to be somewhat capable. So maybe you put one machine gun in the expected, one extra machine gun in the expected base element,

and now you only have a couple machine guns in the maneuver element, but you got them if you need them. So I don't 100% agree with that. That being said, you definitely want to let people do the job that they were assigned to do. Makes sense, right? You trained them.

You've assigned it. Let's try and keep the plan as it's supposed to be. Yeah. to the best of our ability, but we're thinking, we're not black and white here. Leadership is not easy. You know, another thing is,

when you establish your teams, you try and use those teams for everything, if you can't. And again, this is a dichotomy because as much as you want to keep your teams together, you also have to train them to be split up and broken up and combined and mismatched all together.

And I would always do this with, all my fire teams. So the fire teams would stick together as much as humanly possible. But guess what? I would also train them that if they were all scrambled up, someone would step up, take lead, and that'd be a new fire team.

And we'd start making stuff happen. Next up, 24. The sodean accidents with difficulty are remedied. Those that are thought upon with faculty. I had to look up so dean. Because I couldn't even get a clue on what that one was, but it's some sort of leader or a ruler. It's actually a ruler. And this is, this is a, this is, so he's saying the sodean accidents, the leadership accidents with difficulty are remedied are hard to fix.

When leadership screws up, it's hard to fix. Those that are thought of pound are, are, with difficulty are remedied if you usually, you usually, your head quickly. So yeah, there's going to be leadership problems and they're hard to fix unless you think and think quickly. How do you, how can you improve your speed of thinking? Do you know how you can do that? Practice.

Practice. So, let's say get experience too, right? Because experience gives you the practice. Yeah, yeah, it's experience. If I've seen something before, it's, I'm going to know. A thousand times faster how I'm going to react to it. Yeah. If I haven't seen it before, it takes me a while just to comprehend what's in front of my face.

Yeah. So that's why when we train, we train to throw things. Okay. So first of all, when we train, we want to throw things at people that different scenarios, different things happening where they start to get pattern recognition. Oh, I've seen this type of thing before. On top of that, you also want to train people. people what to do or how to react when they've never seen it before.

They've never seen anything like this before because if I show you, let's say I'm training you for, well, I guess we might as well just use a jih Tornament, right? We use jiu jih Tzu. I'm training you for jiu jitsu situations, right? And I teach you how to defend this and I teach you how to defend that and I teach you how to defend this and I teach you how to defend that, right? I teach you how to defend 10 different things and you get pretty good at it. I also have to teach you about.

broad concept of what to do when there's something that you don't recognize. So, hey, if the guy grabs your arm, I want you to pull your arm here. Hey, if the guy starts to go for your neck, I want you to swim your arm, your hand underneath, and tuck your chin. If the guy starts pulling towards your back, I want you to shift your leg up and so he can't maneuver around there. So I'm going to give you exact steps to execute if you see these things. And then I'm going to say this.

if he's doing something you don't recognize, here's what I want you to do. I want you to tuck your elbows in. I want you to posture. And I want you to control his hips. Oh, okay. And then you'll start to be able to recognize what's going on. At least you're going to survive.

I want you to detach and step back and say, what's he attacking? Same thing with combat. I'm going to train you like, hey, if he does this, you do that. If he does that, you do this. If you have no idea what's happening, here's what I want you to do. get into a 360 degree perimeter, listen, right?

I mean, whatever that situation is going to call for, if you don't know what's happening, like if I don't know where I'm getting flanked from or if I don't know where I'm getting shot at from, hey, everyone take a knee, get cover. Don't just start shooting because that's going to cause confusion. It's also going to give away our position. So what we're going to do,

we're going to go into a 360 degree perimeter. We're going to hold what we got. We're going to listen. that's our that's our that's our that's our if we don't recognize what's happening that's what we're new so we have standard operating procedures for things that we recognize and we actually also have something to do if we don't recognize we have a procedure for non-recognition yeah which is which is important it's kind of like I mean it's different I guess but it kind of maybe fits in with you know how people always say expect

the unexpected kind of thing so it kind of fits in there where you're essentially trained for unexpected stuff like I would say go one. Yes, that's the important part. It's not just expect the unexpected. It's have a protocol for when something unexpected happens. Here's what we're going to do. Yeah.

Because a lot of times when something unexpected, I'm thinking Jiu Jets to too right now, it's because that's on purpose. You know, like these guys with these weird games, these weird, tall, flexible guys or something like that. They have these weird games. And they'll do stuff that they know or they kind of rely upon you not have seen it before,

like you didn't see it before. So they can capitalize when you start to panic, you know, or when you can, you know, if let's say your arm is out here, like, like there's some leg locks that, that require you to kind of try to spin out of it, then they'll catch it with something else, right? It's kind of that. So if you have a protocol that's just like, I don't know, whatever the protocol is, safety protocol, you know, it not only keeps you safe, just statistically speaking, you know, chances are it'll keep you safe, but it'll generally. I'm up their game overall, you know, especially these people that, that they, they capitalize on you panicking and not knowing what to do. You know, and you want to have some kind of a reset position. And I used to use this with fighters like, hey, here's your reset position.

Like, just get to here because you're comfortable there. Get them under control, control their hips, whatever. Combat, same thing. Oh, you're, you're, everyone's confused. Everyone's mixed up. Guys are all over the place. Let's get to a reset position in a building. Yeah, yeah.

Now everyone knows where we are. we get control of ourselves. Business. Same thing. We got scenario that we don't know what's happening. You know what? General corridors. Like, hey, we're all going to go to our normal positions.

We're going to stand by because we don't know what's happening right now. So you've got to have not just to expect the unexpected. You've got to have a protocol to follow when something is occurring that you don't understand yet. Some kind of a reset position. Put that in your world. next up number 25 men iron money and bread be the strength of the war but of these four the first two be most necessary because men and iron find money and bread but money and bread find not men and iron yeah that one's pretty cool pretty self-explanatory now let me let's go to a business

perspective here a business perspective here because this is a this can help people make decisions in the business world when you're going to make expenditures when you are going to invest in something in your company it is important to assess whether or not you are investing in something that is going to help you build is going to help you grow or if you're investing in something that is not. So for instance, let's say, let's say, hey, our, are, we could either take, you know, $50,000 and remodel our current office or we can take $50,000 and we can rent this new sub office in an area that we don't have any, um, presence in.

So which one is a better investment? Like we don't really need that remodel of our office This other thing is gonna help us actually grow So make sure that the investments that you're making The first thing you want to invest in is men and iron Right? You don't want to invest in money and bread Money and bread's gonna be gone. Yeah And it doesn't reproduce it doesn't reproduce itself

Whereas men and steel is gonna get you more of that bread and iron in the long run Or sorry bread and money all right number 26 the unarmed rich man is a booty to the poor soldier what does that mean it means that the unarmed rich man is the prize of the poor soldier that's what it means it means it means be armed and this is the last one number 27 accustom thy soldiers to despise Delicate living and luxurious apparel like that one. What does that mean? Get your people get your soldiers to despise Delicate living despise comfort despise luxurious clothing. That's what I'm talking about. They'll be better soldiers. They'll be better people You feel like I'm talking to you right now? What the connoisseur of comfort? The connoisseur of comfort is in my firing line right now. I understand. I feel like I'm talking to you right now. I understand. I feel like I'm talking to you right now. I'm talking to you right now. I'm just in my

firing line right now. Yeah, I dig it, man. Obviously, I can't disagree with that because, dang, I mean, yeah. When you've been uncomfortable for an extended period of time, does it not make you a better person on it? A little bit. Yeah, it does. There we go.

Yeah. You know, the whole idea, be comfortable with discomfort. You've told me the story of you, because I know it doesn't rain a lot here, but you used your kettlebells in the rain in the other day. You've told me that story two times, two days in a row now. Sure. Right? Yes.

Today you told me that even Jade your brother came out was impressed by your determination. So what is it? What is it about that that made you feel compelled to tell me about it and be, you know, for lack of a better word, pretty damn proud that you went out in the rain and did a kettlebell workout? In the cold. Yes. Well, yeah, it's strong.

And how did you feel inside? Well, it felt strong when it was over. Feel better, yeah. This is it. Well, yeah, it makes you stronger. I'm asking you real questions right now. It might seem like I'm joking, but it's actually real. You know why?

Because this is a little step for you. And there's other people that are listening that would benefit from hearing how taking this little step away from comfort really, truly made you mentally and physically better. Go. Echo Charles. All right. Well, where can I start on that one? Okay. So, okay, yes.

I go outside. at a workout planned. It's raining. Raining. Kind of hard, too, by the way. And it's kind of cold. The kind you got to wear like a lot of clothes, you know. So yes, I go ahead do the whole workout hard too.

And yes, my brother was like, dang, that's some dedication or whatever. But yes, so the feeling is, yeah, that I'm actually strong now. You know, it's like basically when you break it down, it's like now you're strong. You're not weak. So weak would be like just the littlest thing will throw you off your plan, you know? The little thing because you can't, because you're so used to comfort where you're so used to like the clothing thing. I mean, yeah, that's kind of weird too. Like if you always got to be wearing like nice clothes, otherwise like you're kind of, you don't go out or something.

I don't know. But it's kind of the same. It seems like the same concept. But yeah, if you can endure that stuff. And then how do you feel when you're done? Better, yeah. Did you feel better after a workout in the cold rain where you went and got after it than you would have had it been just normal 70. degrees in sunny SoCal.

Yeah, a little bit, but I feel like it was just more of a psychological thing, which does help big time because now you know that rain, you just prove to yourself that rain, cold, whatever is not an excuse. How old are you? 40 years, rain and cold was an excuse. No more. No more. No more.

Well, here's the thing. You're going to battle. You know what's funny? Here's a good expression. We used to say in the day, it was raining and cold, you know, we'd say good operating weather. But it was like, it was kind of, it's true. It's definitely true because when it's raining and when it's cold, guess what? The people that are, you know, on watch your enemy, guess what they're doing?

They're hiding. They're all bundled up and warm, so that makes it easy for you. Plus there's noise from the rain, which camouflages the noise that you're making, walking through the J. or the woods or whatever. But that's always a good one. Whenever it's, whenever it's crappy weather, I always say to myself,

good operating weather. Yeah. Kind of smile. But we used to say to each other as it's like, you can't complain about it. You just look at your buddy as like when the door of the,

of the helo truck, you know what a helo truck is? No, back in the day, we didn't have a lot of money for budget. And so we'd pretend that we were in helicopters

and we'd be in the back of big trucks and they just drive out in the middle of the desert open up the helo truck and open it up open up the door and we jump out like we just got out of a helicopter little did we know that when the war actually came we would be using vehicles we used vehicles all the time I rarely

rarely used helicopters in Iraq in Afghanistan they used helicopters a lot more but for me in Iraq Foot Patrol and helo trucks but we didn't have to call them helo trucks anymore Now we just call them trucks. Sure. Trunks.

But when you're in a helo truck in 1994 and you get driven up into wherever and the door of the helo truck opens up and it's raining and it's cold. And as you're getting out of the truck, your last moment to communicate out loud to everyone, you hear someone go, good operating weather. And you're like, yeah, it is. This is going to suck. Yeah. Yeah.

And it makes sense. So, like, yeah, if you're used to being uncomfortable, right? Or if you, like, despise comfort, however you put it. Yeah. It's not me. It's Machiavelli said it. Despise comfort. Despising comfort.

Essentially, you're getting comfortable with being uncomfortable. You know how they say that, right? They do. They do, man. So, yeah, that's what they're doing. So that's why, yeah, yeah. Just improve, basically at the end of the day, improves your chance of success, you know, May roadblocks of discomfort come about in the future.

That's what happens. Indeed. And I think that not only will the rejection of comfort make better, soldiers, it'll make better people. So, yes, as you said, get out of your comfort zone. Impose discipline and discomfort on yourself, and you will become a better person. And that wraps up, Machiavelli. For now, but,

Echo, speaking of, um, getting out of our comfort zone, and this is going to be a little dichotomy here. Uh-huh. But getting out of our comfort zone to become better. What recommendations?

Do you have for us to make that happen? Like I said, there's going to be a dichotomy here. Okay. Because what do we have? Well, well, there's a lot of things you have,

but, but, yeah, so as being the connoisseur of comfort, and, so you're kind of the connoisseur of discomfort really in a way I don't know about that

here's the thing though I don't think about it much though yeah you know what I mean I'd have to be like actively thinking about it about what discomfort just about anything I'm just over here doing what I'm doing yeah you know what I mean

discomfort I don't care I don't care there's that old Viking saying it's like the rain is cold and the old Viking says how can the rain be cold, right? The rain's not cold.

Yeah, but I don't know. I don't get it. How can the rain be cold? If it's cold, Ben, it's cold. No, it's cold to you when it hits you. The rain itself isn't cold. Okay, I understand. It's a play on words.

Gotcha. A little play on words. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's another good thing to think to yourself. Another good thing to think to yourself, you only get wet once. Yeah. I've talked about that before. Yeah, makes sense.

You're waiting to go across a river. You're looking for the best spot. You're like, oh, no, you just get wet. You're only going to get wet one time. Once you're wet, you're wet. It doesn't matter anymore. It's true. So the comfort thing is it's all, it's like context has a huge, has a lot to do with it.

Remember how I told you that time where it's like, you know, sometimes you can just fall asleep on the floor. I know. Or in the beach. I don't know. But then sometimes you get in your couch or on your wherever and you just can't fall. So you can't get comfortable enough, you know. Interesting. Because you expect the comfort is what I'm saying.

But if you don't have any comfortable expectations, it's like you just be, you're just comfortable. It's almost like you're just appreciative for any kind of comfort. But if you expect mass comfort, it's like you can't get enough comfort, you know, because you just expect more. It's weird. So like, okay, so you, you know, you have experience with cold water, right? Getting in and hit the surf, whatever. So when you're there, how hard is that? It's not not right. You're just like we're just doing it. Yeah, this is what we're doing. This is we're whatever. It's cold. It sucks. Whatever even if it's but here's any, this is me keep in mind, but still I think it holds true. So I'm getting in the shower the other day. It's cold here. California weather is cool. Tell that to Pete.

Well, Pete's going to understand because this probably happened to him too. So listen, you know how you're cold. You know, like it's just sort of cold. Right. So I'm about to take a shower. and you know the kind when you turn on the shower it doesn't come out all warm it takes a few seconds or whatever so I turn it on and hits me oh because you take warm showers that day I took a warm shower

anyway the cold water like kind of hit me and I was oh there's no way I could bear going underneath that shower like before it gets warm no way man no way but then and then whatever it heats up

but I'm thinking like no like Jocko guys go in that cold surf, like for a long time and so then I'm thinking, no, it's totally in context, you know? Like if I, let's say a minute before I walked in the shower, I was like, I'm going to take a cold shower right now. Doing it. Literally the same exact time. I could do it. You see what I'm saying? So it's like a mindset kind of thing.

Check. Even aside from the training, of course. I would say this. And the reason that I can't, I mean, it's just like blank. No, bro, it's not here. Maybe it is, bro, but no, I don't know. Think about this. When you get out of bed, right?

Well, then again, your routine's different. But yeah, let's say you're just sort of cold. You know, I have an actual ice bath. Yeah, but that's different, too. Bray, I used to take ice bath all the time. Oh, okay. But that's different, too. I'm saying, like, what if you get, I don't know, out of bed, or you're just cruising

at home, which you probably don't do. But let's say you were, and it was just cold. The kind of like, oh, I'm pretty cold right now. I should put on a jacket right now. A hoodie, whatever. That's how cold it is right here. Not freezing, but just I'm cold right now. Uncomfortably cold.

And then let's say your son comes with a cup of ice water and dumps it on you. Right? How would he sneak up on me? So you're saying, okay, maybe he didn't sneak up on you. Maybe he was, I don't know. But let's say he poured an ice water on you. Okay. You're telling me that you're like, whatever.

That wouldn't. You'd be Viking-like and be like, oh, like, I don't know. It's not cold. Well, I tell you, if he was looking for a reaction from me, I wouldn't get him the satisfaction. Okay, which I dig it. There would be a grappling match happening real quick, though. Yeah, so, yeah, and I understand. Because that was an attack.

Okay, so that aside, I'm talking about the actual physical experience. Yeah, of course, there's cold water hitting you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's not nothing, but. Oh, it's something. It's something. But that, compare that experience to if he came up to, hey, dad, I have this cup of cold water. It's kind of cold water.

right now do you think you can like endure this right and you're like oh yeah i can endure it do it and he did it i'm not saying that would be nothing or something i'm saying that those two experiences are different okay yeah so i'm saying so this is the uh this is an element of surprise is all we're talking about one you was a surprise one you're not if you're surprised it's gonna throw you off a little bit yeah if you're not surprised you're braced for it you're good to go yeah i mean it's surprise that's just one element of a different context where you don't necessarily expect so it's Surprise and mental preparation. Mental preparation is, I think, the overarching

because surprise would fall under the mental preparation umbrella. There's stuff going on in your head, bro. I'm telling you that shower experience kind of enlightened being a little bit anyway. Okay. Be comfortable with being uncomfortable. That's a jiu-jitsu saying, too, by the way. Is that where you heard it mainly?

I don't, maybe that's where I first heard it. Yeah. Because that's a good thing to have. Oh, yeah. That's the backhanded compliment that Hicks and Gracie told me when I rolled with him back in the day. What? That you were comfortable with you? He goes, he said, you're very, you're very comfortable when you're in really bad positions.

And I was all happy. Yeah, there you go. He was good at Jiu Jitsu. Yes. So. Yeah, that's what I heard too. But yeah, so that's what Jiu Jitsu saying. So that means do Jiu Jitsu, kind of, really.

That last stratagem? or what do you call it, rules, general rule? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is. Dispise delicate living. Yeah. Is Jiu Jitsu delicate living?

No, it is not. It's not delicate. But it's not brutal. Depends who you roll with. Yeah, that's true. That's very true, actually. There was some blood on the mat last night, boy. I believe.

Anyway, do Jiu Jitsu. If we're not in Jiu Jitsu already. We might not agree on the different mindsets for cold and all that, but we do agree. agree, do some jujitsu. Do you just some jiu-tzu. And when you do it, you're going to need a ghee. And what ghee do you get?

None other than the geese that are made 100% in America from top to bottom, from origin. Origin, main.com. That's where you get them. You can get whatever ghee you want on there. And you can get a rash card so you can do no geese as well. And then you can get t-shirts and hoodies. Which are comfortable. Which are the antithesis of what we're talking about.

Yes. Because you have claimed, and now this claim has been supported on social media sites around the world that the origin jogger pants, which I don't wear, are universally the most comfortable pants of all time. Yes. Still. I mean, and I went on searches. My son got a pair for Christmas because you know when you're in my family, guess what you're getting for Christmas? Product. Yeah, yeah.

Origin stuff. So he got a pair And I tried him on And he was like You gotta take them off Because how they look Because they just don't look right They don't match

They just not They're not me Yeah because joggers As functional as they are Because they're super functional As far as jogging and running Goes As functional as they are

They're that's a style thing Like they're in style right now But They're somehow related Yeah To skinny jeans Are they not They're at least related

That's the look Yeah related So you Yeah, bro, you can't wear that kind of stuff. They used to issue, and when I was at SEAL Team 2, Seal Team 1, we didn't have it. Seal Team 2, they issued us joggers, but this is back in the day. They were basically like, they were basically like the same thing.

Because it was cold in the wintertime and guys would want to run with those things on. Yeah. But I didn't wear those either. But everybody else wore. Yeah, yeah. Wait, and their outer, they weren't underwear. You'd wear them like over your running shorts. Oh.

Yeah, cool. There you go. Yeah. But these are, these are probably going to be way more comfortable. The ones from origin. And they're made in America.

By the way, I don't know if I mentioned that. But yeah, those are good. Here's the thing. You despise comfort. Well, I don't think you despise comfort. Not as much as I should. Yeah.

Okay, that makes sense to me. I don't despise comfort. Just like I don't despise the rest between sets. Because comfort is there for reason. When you're kind of cold. I guess that's what I was going to say earlier. You enjoy. Boy comfort more when you have discomfort.

Yes. Right? You don't want to be the person that's constantly in a feather pillow temperature controlled scenario. Yes. You want to be in like the tough environment and then you're like, oh, this feels good now. Yeah. Like when you get out of the one, you've been surfing and it's cold. I went surfing the other day with no wetsuit on.

And it's wintertime here, by the way. But one of my, two actually of my toes were numb, straight up white. How so how cold is that maybe like what 55? Yeah, something like that. Yeah. I mean, I only went for like 45 minutes. Mm-hmm. But yeah, I was cold when I got done.

Yeah. And then I went in the jacuzzi. That was nice. And it felt good. Yeah. See. So really it's more about- I did not despise that comfort.

Yeah. But it felt even better than if it was just a normal day and I wasn't, didn't have a numb two toes. Yeah. So really it's more about the ability to endure discomfort. That's really what it is. So the less time you spend uncomfortable, the less used to it you'll be. So the more like, you know, the less capable you'll be of enduring it.

Yeah. Kind of. That's kind of the thing. Yeah. Jack. What they're going for. Anyway. Geese, rash guards, t-shirts, joggers, supplements.

Supplements, of course. Joint supplements, which have shaken out to be the most important supplements there are. It's true. Indeed. For a semi to moderate to highly active person, that's it. Yeah. I know this firsthand. Definitely.

So joint warfare, krill oil, those are for your joints and for your whole life. Like the stuff that's in joint warfare, turmeric, it has all kinds. It's not just like, yeah, it's good for your joints, but it's good for a lot. It's good for everything. Yeah. Which is, as I was, you know, reading more about. it or no there was an article that sprang up that's what it was and I was like wow I didn't know did all this no wonder I feel so good yeah anyways joint wear for curle oil

discipline there's also so discipline comes in lemon lime which is tasty there's also the new tropic thunder because we couldn't call it we couldn't call it pinia calada because that just not happening no no that was just a big negative and it is mulk of course additional protein additional protein additional protein That tastes delicious. That tastes like a dessert. For real dessert, though. Yeah.

And if you have kids or if you just, well, if you have kids, you get them more your kid milk, which is the best possible thing you can buy a child for food, in my opinion. Yeah. Well, I guess if you get steak. Sure. I think vegetables are good too. I didn't even like steak when I was a little kid. Yeah, you like burgers.

Yeah, I liked burgers. But. Yeah. You're more refined now. Luxurious now. Yeah. It took a little while, though. There's an acquired taste getting into the steak thing.

Huh. Yeah. Interesting. Plus I had to learn how to cook it better. Yeah. So yeah, Warrior Kid Mulk and all that stuff from origin. You can get it origin, main.com. Dot com.

Also, Jocko is the store. It's called Jocco store. So you go to jocco store.com, and this is where you can get shirts that represent the path. I want to represent discipline equals freedom. Discipline equals freedom shirt here. This is what I realized this. Cyclot, I know, I know. I think maybe a little bit too much into it.

But this happened, though. When you wear a discipline equals freedom shirt to workout, you, like, won't skip the workout. You'll be more into the workout. I noticed that. Yeah. Because you look at it and says, discipline equals freedom. You know, it's like you're representing what it's actually saying. It's not one of these deals where it's like, ooh, a cool star on your shirt or something, which is cool.

There's people that have taken that idea to the next level. and gotten the Discipline Equals Freedom tattoos. See, same exact concept. And yeah, man, I've seen it. Like one dude has the Discipline equals freedom. I think it's basically on the inside of his wrist. Try eating a donut with that hand. I know.

It's not happening. Exactly. There's no way. That's the exact yes. If that happened, you'd be in serious violation. Yeah. Like, you couldn't do it. You'd feel it.

Like you'd be doing burpees for like 45 minutes after that. Yeah. Yeah. You see, I posted a picture of the guy with it on the inside of business. arm yeah those no there's one guy that has inside of his arm you're talking about the one guy

there's a guy that has his wrist yeah that's the one recently stamp yeah it was that roll call yeah that's when I took the picture but yeah I saw that it was good see same exact concept man yeah because yeah you can't not represent now you know you got the shirt on

boom you got the tattoo now you can never not represent or you're gonna pay the price yeah to yourself by the way you know so it's like a thing I dig it man I dig it respect also we get that tattoo I think you should only get that tattoo if you if you're

you need to commit first right? You need to commit first and then get the tattoo don't think that just the tattoo is going to push you over the edge even though I probably will but maybe that's not the best approach for tattoo decision making is that that's what you're saying

either way yeah anyway it's called jocco store com you can get your uh you know the shirts and and before you get the tattoo get the t-shirt gets a shirt first yes get a hat get a hat it says it first yeah there's a lot of cool if you're in the game cool then you can step it up a little bit more hoodies yes women's stuff I'm gonna have some new stuff on there too you keep saying that I know but you know I'm gonna do it meanwhile is there patches right now or we out of patches um well no let me

let me double check and let me check with the guy that's in charge of in this way that's you Well, rest assured, hey, if you see something cool, get something. If something sold out or something like that, I don't know, let me know, I guess. Don't. You know what? It won't be, or it'll be on the way. Either way, it's called jocco store.com. A lot of cool stuff on there.

If you want something, you want to represent in the wild, in the wild, by the way, get something. Also, Jocko white tea on the store that we sell that on the store too, by the way, chocolate. But you can get this. Right now. Yeah, it's good And get it from Amazon as well Where else? Guess what I'm drinking right now?

Hot tea Yeah You know why? Comfortable Because it's a little bit cold I'm getting the comfort zone See, busted Hey, no man

It makes it makes it Yeah, it makes sense You're no stranger to discomfort So I think you're kind of You know, whatever But yeah, Joggleweight tea It's one of those deals where Even if you don't like tea that much

You'll probably like this one It doesn't It tastes like tea but it doesn't taste like tea. Can I say that? Does that make any sense? You know, if you drink it, that makes sense. There's a dichotomy.

There's a dichotomy. There's a jacca white tea. But there's no dichotomy in the fact that you need deadly tea. We were there when Dean was teaching the jih T-Gytoe class at the muster, and he used the word dichotomy and then everyone started laughing. Yeah, because the way he says it is like directly teasing me. Directly mocking me from using the word dichotomy. Yeah.

So yeah. So, yeah, Jock, white, tea. Outstanding stuff. Makes you deadlift. 8,000 pounds, but we already knew that. Yeah, everyone knows that. Yeah, yeah. Worldwide deadlift has increased a lot.

Yep. Also, it's in cans, which is good for me, because the whole brewing tea sequence is very uncomfortable for me, yes. So, you know, cans seems more cool, but whatever, whatever you like. Also, subscribe to this podcast if you haven't already on, you know, wherever you listen to a podcast. There it is. I know. I don't think we even need to say that anymore.

Okay, I've said that for like a year or maybe even three years that we don't need to say to subscribe to the podcast, but we do need to say subscribe to the Warrior Kid podcast. Yes. Check it out. Check it out. Check it out. Even if you aren't a kid, check it out. I use a different voice in that podcast. Dave Burke was talking about it.

Yeah. He's like, I even like that different. I use this voice right here. It's a little bit more aimed at kids. Yeah. This is just the way I normally talk. what I do. Because I'm kind of Uncle Jake in that.

Uncle Jake is a little bit more. He's not, he, well, not dorky, but he just doesn't have his little bit of a dark side. Like I do.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good way of putting it. Uncle Jake is just good across the board.

You never know what I might have a little, I might have a little issue with something and get kind of crazy on it. Yeah. Uncle Jake's not going to let that happen. So check out the Warrior Kid podcast. If you want to get a little bit. get some more information to your kids about being on the path. And you can hear me talk and tell stories in this voice from Uncle Jake.

Yeah. Actually, something actually exactly like how you sound on it, which is good. Anyway, also, yes, YouTube as well. So we do have a YouTube channel if you didn't know that. It does have the video version of this podcast and also little excerpts. And enhanced excerpts. By the way, I was noticing some of your recent. excerpts. You can't make excerpts that are 12 minutes long. That's not an excerpts. That's just like a video.

Well, technically, that's not correct because an excerpt is just a part. There's no time limit. What I'm saying is, here's the thing with the 12 minutes is long, man. I know. And sometimes they're going to be 12 minutes. There's no way that everything in that 12 minutes is important. Kind. Yeah, that's true. Okay. But it depends on your editing scissors and cut. Depends on how you look at it, though. Bro, these things are supposed to be. An excerpt should be like, oh, you know what? Boom. Two minutes and 28 seconds later, you're like, yeah, I got this.

Oh, I dig it. I agree. But not a lot of time. You want people to pull up a couch and heave in for the night. Well, some of us are on the computer doing other stuff. And then boom, the excerpt comes up, you know, about maybe. Or maybe it's like you saying something and me disagreeing and then you saying, well, this is this. And I'm saying, well, that's true.

but what about this? And you're like, okay, or whatever. You know, it's like a little, it's like a little conversation. That's not two hours, see what I'm saying? Cool. So, you know, it's presentable. It's good. It's doable.

Okay, so there's, there's on the YouTube channel, there's long and short excerpts. Yes. That's a good way to put it. There's digestible. And there's a little bit more like, you know, meal time. Conversational, you know, because it's less about like the shortness and shareability. Necessarily, it's more about like, hey, Remember this shareability. Oh, like I can you watch. Yeah, like it's a minute. Yeah, they're more likely to watch the minute video than the 12 minute video. But the 12 minutes is like the kind of like if you just want to hear about like this specific like topic that happen to take 12. They're not all 12 minutes. No, I know. There's like one. This may be like eight minutes though. Maybe six. Either way. It's the way. Psychological warfare too. Speaking of little excerpts, those are just short short. Short one to two minutes.

of how to overcome some type of momentary weakness that you might have if you don't have a discipline equals freedom tattoo on your wrist that's going to keep you in check This is another thing you can do prior to getting that tattoo You can just load up your psychological warfare on iTunes Google play mp3 platforms whatever and listen to those Yes, which is Jocco telling you how to overcome the weakness That is that that tattoo on your wrist discipline equals freedom is like the ultimate psychological It is a weapon. It is a good weapon.

Like, boom, discipline. Oh, what if you put discipline on one wrist and freedom on the other wrist? I actually might do that. That's pretty good. That's pretty good. Discipline freedom. Boom. At origin, I've been talking to Pete.

We're trying to buy a machine that can make sweatbands, wristbands, right? And then once we have that power, two things. Number one, I'm going to make the best wristbands because I wear wristbands every time I work out. Yeah. And, but there's no good wristbands in the world. There's none of them that meet the standards that I would like them to meet. Why do you wear wristbands? A sweat, primarily.

Oh, so it doesn't go on your hand and get all slippery. It will run right down my arms and my hands and I'm just dropping everything and it sucks. Yeah. So, uh, I'm going to make wristbands that are super long. Right, right. And really like just. But I told Pee, I'm like, we can put discipline on one and freedom on the other one. Right.

You can buy a little set. Yeah. So anyways, Pete's shopping for the machine right now. Good. Can you make socks too? Yes, it can make socks. Pete sent me a picture of a machine. And he goes, what do you think this makes?

And I looked at it. And I don't know. I just kind of like logically, it was sort of like a, you could see stuff 360 degrees around something else. And I was like, I bet you, I said socks. And he goes, damn. Because I'm not in the industry. Right.

But you can recognize that. Pete was impressed with my logic. Yeah. You're deducing. Deductive skills. Yeah, yeah. It's good. I'm impressed too.

Speaking of being impressed, go to Onit. So On It, the company I'm impressed with always have been, by the way. So go to on it.com slash jocco. This is where you can get kettlebells, all kinds of cool workout equipment that you can just slowly add to your arsenal at home. If you've got a home gym, whatever. Really good stuff on there. Also good info on there. So, you know, if you want to educate yourself.

a little bit more boom that's the place to go on it dot com slash jock a really good stuff on there really good we got some books we got Mikey and the dragons which is fully in stock fully yeah it ran a little low we almost didn't make Christmas but we made it thank God cool thanks to everyone on the team that helped us and all the printers around that that printed us copies and we got a bunch of copies and everyone got them by Christmas that I know of everyone that's reached out on Twitter that It's not here yet on December 19th or 13th was like, we still don't have it. I ordered October.

I was like, it's coming. Please come. And, but as far as I know, everyone got them when they, they got them in time for Christmas. So now we have a lot. So if you want to get Mikey in the Dragons, best children's book ever. Ever. Yeah. Yeah.

Disagree with me. No, I, no. Well, I think just by nature, I'm like, well, you used to made a claim. Let me, like, refute it. So I'm all thinking, but, hey, man, because obviously I would be like, hey, what about this way of the word kid?

Because I thought that was a best kid's book ever. What age group? For which? Okay. Best, young, best, was it a toddler that reads Mikey and the Dragons? Todd. What's a toddler? Someone who can walk.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, some toddlers can't understand. So best children's book, picture book, with for ages five and under. Seven and six and under. Sure. Mikey and the Dragons there.

Okay, we broke that down. Order that. Way the Warrior Kid, when the kids get a little bit older, order Way of the Warrior Kid and Mark's mission. Book three has been written. I got pictures from John Bozak today via text. You saw them, right? Witnessed, yes.

Yeah. How do you like them? We like them a lot. I showed, I showed Danny Reinhart to my youngest daughter. And I've been telling her about Danny Reinhart. for a long time because Danny Reinhart does everything perfect and Danny Reinhardt does everything good and Mark's kind of jealous of him and I sure and she was she's been she got all into the name. Danny Reinhardt. Yeah she's annoyed with him. Yeah she's already doesn't like him. Yeah. But the

the interesting twist on the story is Danny Reinhart's actually a good kid. Yeah. And he just happens to be talented and he happens to work hard and he's actually nice. But Mark's jealous. So Warrior Kid three coming out in the spring and right now we got to be talented. Warrior Kid 1 and Warrior Kid 2, Mark's Mission. Also got Discipline equals Freedom Field Manual. The manual for getting after it in life. In life, yeah. Super stoked on everyone that's posting pictures.

And I'm actually most stoked when somebody posts a picture that they've lost 162 pounds in 14 months or whatever. Completely changed their lives. Yeah. Why discipline equals freedom? So you can get that book for yourself. That's also pre-tattoo. Maybe before you get the tattoo,

you just leave this out on your coffee table. Yeah. You just have it there because it's looking at you. That book is looking at you. Yeah. I got a stack of them in my room. I feel them. Oh, yeah, yeah.

They keep me in line. Keep you right on there. So if you want the audio version, it's on iTunes, Amazon Music, Google Play, other MP3 platforms. Obviously, Extreme Ownership, the first book that I wrote with my brother, Laif Babin taking the lessons that we learned on the battlefield and explaining how they can be applied to your business and to your life. And that was the followed up. That was followed up by the book that we just had come out called the dichotomy of leadership. And this is getting granular in how to apply those leadership principles into your world. Also, we have echelon front, which is my leadership consultancy. And what we do is solve problems through leadership. If you,

have any kind of problem in your organization it is a leadership problem it is a leadership problem we will help get your leadership fixed get them aligned and get them working and get the team functioning properly we also have a leadership conference that we do it's called the muster in 2019 there are three musters May 23rd and 24th in Chicago September 9th and 20th in Denver and December 4th and 5th in Sydney Australia Check out extreme ownership.com for the details and to register all of them that we have done have sold out This is and when I'm saying they sold out this is when people call me up and say or like people that I know

Yeah say hey Hey, I know we're a little late just want to can you just um can you just reserve three seats for me and you know these two other people that I work with and I'm like Actually no I can't you can't you can't you can't Not come. Well, we'll just stand in the back. No, there's fire code. Like, you can't come. Yeah. Everyone thinks you all just, you know, no.

Yeah, just like, it's sold out. Yeah. So you can't come. The, the, um, the live podcast we're doing. January 9th. Sold out. Immediately. It's like, sorry.

Gotta be quick on those, I guess. So there's that. Now we do have this. EF online. This is, this is the interactive. Training leadership training that we put together and okay, so there's several places where this stem from One of them is the muster itself because guess what the muster is great foundational information. It's a great foundational

leadership Instruction that you're gonna get when you go not everyone can make it to the muster So what we did is we took the content from the first like two musters that we did and this is the fundamental principles from extreme ownership from the dichotomy leadership we took those and put them into Interactive online training so that people that couldn't make it to the muster could still get that training We also did it because companies that we work with sometimes they have 10,000 employees 20,000 employees a hundred thousand employees And all the employees are not all in one place. They're all over the place. They're all over the country and they're all over the world

How are we going to train all those people? What we needed to do is figure out a way to scale the training that we did. There was many requests from the larger companies we work with to get the training to all their employees. How do we do that? We had to scale it. So we put it online. And then once we put it online for companies, we figured, okay, let's get it out there for direct consumers that want to take the training. They can't come to the muster, what have you, or they want to get reminded what they learned at the muster.

Same thing. So that's online training. It's available now at eFonline.com. Also, we've got EF Overwatch where we are taking leadership gaps in the civilian sector, and we are filling those leadership gaps with trained and experienced and tested leaders from combat aviation and from the spec ops community. Go to EFoverwatch.com, regardless of which side of that equation you're on, whether you're a company that needs leaders, or whether you're a vet that's seeking a leadership position in a company. Go to EFoverwatch.com and fill out the information that applies to you.

And if you want to continue this conversation with us, we can be found all up in the interwebs on Instagram, on Twitter, and on the Facebook. Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at Jocko Willink and finally to all our military personnel out there Thank you for protecting freedom around the world and to our folks in uniform here at home Police and law enforcement and firefighters paramedics EMTs correctional officers border patrol All first responders thanks for protecting us and our families and to everyone else out there Remember that discipline is stronger than fury. You need a little bit of fury. You need a little bit of discipline.

You need to combine those things. But you take that discipline and you impose discipline upon yourself and reject and refuse delicate living and the luxuries that are available to you in life and instead and make yourself better, faster, smarter, and stronger by going out there day after day, after day, and getting after it. And until next time, this is Echo and Jocko. Out.