Jocko Podcast - 166: Trust and Be Wise. Psychology for the Fighting Man. Part Three.

Episode Date: February 27, 2019

0:00:00 - Opening 0:00:28 - 3rd Part: Psychology for the Fighting Man. 2:39:08 - Final thoughts and take-aways. 2:42:000 - Support: How to stay on THE PATH. 3:03:24 - Closing Gratitude.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 166 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. And we are rolling straight into part three, podcast number three of the psychology for the fighting man. What you should know about yourself and others. So if you haven't listened to the previous two podcasts, they're about this same book. and there's so much information that we split it up because it was going long.

And this part, these couple sections here are really what I was originally going to cover, but then I figured I'd cover it all. And next thing you know, this turned into three podcast series. Cool. And this section is called The Soldier's Personal Adjustment.

And here we go. Back to the book. In a democratic civilian army, millions of men are suddenly abruptly thrown into a new way of life. It is in many ways a tough life. Men used to going their own ways, choosing their own jobs, associates, neckties, times for going to bed, now have to follow military orders about all these things. Men accustomed to a comfortable litter of belongings around them find the bare neatness of policed barracks hard to get used to. Those used to steam heat, warm shower baths, and breakfast eggs cooked just three and a half minutes

at home may be pretty uncomfortable when they have to put up with a bed on the ground and cold water for shaves. There is, moreover, no privacy in the army. If a man oversleeps and his corporal dumps him out of his bunk, the whole company knows about it. if he looks at his girls photograph a lot, they know that too. The business of living in a goldfish bowl and having to take razzing from his fellow soldiers is about the hardest thing for a sensitive recruit to get used to. That's a fact.

So here we go. These are all just welcome to the military. You're not going to get to eat what you want to eat. You're not going to get to sleep when you want to sleep. You're not going to get to keep what you want to keep. Think about those are personal freedoms that everybody. cherishes they're all gone even your privacy and you get to when I went to Navy boot camp you go in the bathrooms there's just stalls there's no I'm sorry there's just

toilets there's no stalls you just sit down next to everyone else and do your business yeah the privacy is gone yeah not every man of course meets hardships for the first time when he goes into the army some have known hunger and cold and hard work some never saw a flush toilet or a shower bath before they got to camp some never had a good square meal well cooked. For them, the army is providing luxuries. That's true too.

Not probably, it's definitely not as true now. Yeah. As it was in 1942. Because in 1942, some people were still living out in the bush here in America. And there's a lot less people still living in the bush in America now. There's still out there though. But farmer, lawyer, banker, section hand, college man or man of little schooling, they all must adjust themselves to an entirely new way of living, all must

learn new habits. Young men may find it easier to make the adjustment than older men because they are ordinarily a little more flexible with habits a little less fixed. That's for sure. If you think you're going to join the military at some point, join when you're as young as possible. No attachments. And I was so just dumb, I guess, for lack of a better word, I just didn't care about anything. When I came in, they're like, we're going to shave your head. We're going to take all your civilian stuff. I'm like, whatever. Take it away. I don't care. But most men can fit themselves into the new life and work without too much friction. Those who do not, those who do it most easily are the ones who accept the new life at once, throw off civilian habits with civilian

clothes and put themselves wholeheartedly into becoming soldiers. One of the hardest adjustments come with a loss of contact with family and friends. The soldier who misses friends at home is slow about making new friends at camp. So there you go. If you, are homesick, what you should do is make new friends. The army is liberal with furloughs as war permits for such homesick men when they first go into the service. But the real remedy is not in hurried trips home or long-distance telephone calls. It is in building up of new interests and new ties in and around the camp. Yeah, when I left home, I left home.

Like, I was gone and just that was that. one of the fears that many men have to overcome or adjust to when they first go into the army is the feeling that they may lose their identity, their freedom of individual expression. From revelry to taps, there is little, if any, opportunity for the new recruit to do anything he is not told to do. Whether he wants to or not, he must get up at the sound of the bugle, put on the prescribed uniform, march when he is commanded, stand at attention when he has ordered and do so, even with a mosquito biting him.

No longer does he eat when he is hungry or go to sleep when he is tired. All conduct seems to be according to order. Is this really a fight for freedom and democracy? Of course it is, but conformity and discipline are necessary for the efficient operation of an army. And I will say this. It's only that strict during boot camp. I mean, for the most part, during boot camp, that's when you really are, every movement that you make is based on what you're being told to do. Once you get into the fleet or out into the into a battalion somewhere, it's definitely, it's not easier, but you do have more individual freedom.

So you some people, when I talk to a kid that's 16 and they are, that's what they're worried about. We know I really like to, whatever. I like to surf and I don't want to give up surfing. You'll have time to surf if you're stationed somewhere. Join the Coast Guard because they're always stationed near the water. You know, there's an idea. Next, a soldier's worries. There is first the fear of death.

It is best met by accepting the possibility of death as a natural part of the job and by being careful not to lose a sense of proportion about it. Again, it's weird for me to read this book because that's, if you would ask me that before I read this book, that's what I would have told you. What you have to do is be like, yeah, there's a chance I'm going to die. And if you're scared of that, you should try and get over it. And I think the sense of proportion, that's saying, like, listen, okay, the world's not going to end if I die. No soldier is so important that he isn't justified in thinking the enemy is aiming every, oh, that's what they're talking about.

This is the sense of proportion is no soldier is so important that he's justified in thinking that the enemy is aiming every bullet bomb in shell at him. Besides, there are a great many men in the army and only a small proportion get hit in. battle and the greater part of those who get hit will live and get well-earned relief from the strain of combat after that there may be a purple heart decoration and some glory this is when we're starting to lean a little bit towards propaganda they're like listen you're probably not gonna die which that is true and the the amount of people that are in the military compared to the amount of people that go into combat compared to the people that actually make contact with the enemy compared to the people that actually get hit,

it's a very small percentage. And if you do get hit, guess what? You got some glory and a purple heart coming your way. Don't worry about it. Yeah, like I said, this sometimes is leaning a little bit towards propaganda in a positive and truthful way, but you got to take it with a grain of salt, as they say. Back to the book.

And soldiers who have been through the worst of warfare are inclined to say, that only a fool wants to live forever. They usually add the warning, but if you must die, make your death count for something. Don't throw your life away by taking needless chances.

So that's the old, again, some propaganda for you there. Hey, listen, man, only a fool wants to live forever. Let's go get some. And like I said, there is some truth to that. Back to the book.

sensitive men may also worry or feel guilty over killing enemy soldiers other men in action unless they understand this worry and face it squarely they may head into trouble because killing is the main job of a combat soldier this is something people tend to forget from time to time the job of a soldier is to kill people from the earliest childhood american boys are taught that it is wrong the greatest wrong to kill this principle is learned so early that it becomes part of them. As boys grow up, they forget most of what happened in infancy and early childhood. Few people, in fact, can remember much of what happened in their first three years. Yet they retain within themselves the attitudes formed during their earliest years. They don't

remember ever learning them. It seems as if they always felt that way. If a man did not learn that it was wrong to kill until he was grown, he would learn it then with his mind. and he would be easy to lay aside that rule when war or emergency makes it necessary for him to kill. But the don'ts learned in earliest childhood become the voice of the conscience in the adult. They seem to be absorbed rather than learned. And even though his mind tells a grown man that the execution of criminals is justified, his emotions may rebel. Then, if duty forces him to kill, he may go ahead and do it, but afterwards he'll feel a vague uneasiness and anxiety.

His conscience won't rest. Some men strictly brought up may even get sick at the stomach at the sight of a limp, pathetic body of a rabbit that has been shot. The cure for the anxiety that results from this kind of conflict between conscience and reason is to understand it. Once a man realizes that the feeling is natural in men brought up as an average American American to respect human life, this particular worry won't haunt him so much. He may have a few bad dreams, but that won't interfere with doing the job ahead,

disagreeable, though it may be. Again, this is when we're trying to let people know that, hey, what you feel, when you feel, oh, like, I don't feel like I want to go kill people, that's okay, we get it. Here's why you feel that way. You feel that way because you've been told it since you were a little kid, but you have to bring your reason into the problem and logically calculate that it's okay to kill people. Tough. This is trying to tell a generation of American kids that they're going to go and fight and

kill the enemy. That's what this is doing. And even letting them know, like, listen, you may have a few bad dreams. Right. And that is probably one of the most minor ways of explaining the fact that you are going to have freaking nightmares and cold sweats and they're they're downplaying that but they're letting them know that that's what's going to happen so this is this is definitely a book called the psychology psychology for the fighting man and they're trying to use some psychology here to get the guys

in the right mindset where they can kill next the healthy mind to be a healthy mind to be his best a soldier must keep his mind fit as well as his body he must be mentally alert and accurately aware of his surroundings he must shoulder responsibility willingly and accept the dictates of superior officers without resentment that's interesting they use the word resentment not without question but without resentment he must be able to get along with other men without undue friction and with mutual pleasure It's important.

Undue friction. There's going to be friction. You're working with other human beings. All other human beings are crazy. The marks of a man with healthy mind or personality are. And that's one thing this book continues to do well is it makes these little lists. So here's the marks of a man with a healthy mind or personality. One,

he uses his abilities with enthusiasm and satisfaction, although not always with happiness or full contentment. Okay. So, hey, I might not be totally into this, but I'm going to get it done in the best possible way. Two, he wants to do something worthwhile to pull his load and not be carried by others. It's interesting how a lot of this stuff is in full alignment with some Jordan Peterson activities, some Jordan Peterson statements, right?

Shoulder responsibility willingly. I think that's a, I think maybe Jordan read this book. It is a psychology book and he's a certain. Maybe he read this book and started snatching good material from it. We're on to you, JP. But yeah, and even this thing, man wants to do something worthwhile. Jordan Peterson talks about that all the time. He gets along with other persons, including his superiors and those with whom he has a difference of opinion.

Very important. How often is it we see people that I don't agree with your opinion? Therefore, I don't like you and I can't get along with you. So lame. So lame. I actually welcome people that have differing opinions than me because maybe they can teach me something. Maybe I can learn something from their viewpoint. Four, when he is disappointed or meets with deprivation or strain, he faces the situation with constructive ideas and a fighting spirit.

Not with fear, rage, hopelessness, or suspicion. So then he does not suffer from indigestion, headache, or pain, which, though not at all voluntary, may be produced by mental troubles. So that's how you meet, like problems with a good attitude, not with fear, rage, and hopelessness. Five, he perseveres in the effort to solve a problem or complete a task in spite of the difficulty and disappointment. Check. perseverance. Six, he likes to give as well as take. Check.

You ever known those kind of people that, what they say, they can give, but they can't take? Yes. Yeah. Those people aren't fun to hang around with. No,

they're not. They never recognize it either. Yeah. And then if you call someone on it, like that, of course, it's denial, denial in a defensive way,

which is exactly what you're talking about. You are proving my point right now. Yeah, yeah. Continuing on. Some break down mentally because they are just not fitted for army life. They never should have been inducted in the first place. Physicians at induction centers watch carefully for the signs of beginning mental illness, but nevertheless, some slip by.

And they actually go through a pretty good chunk explaining that. Just you're not going to catch every person that has a possibility of having some kind of a mental illness. So someone are going to end up and you've got to be ready to deal with them. And those are the people that they say are foredoomed to develop a mental illness. But then there's people beyond them. And here we go. In addition to those men who seem for doomed to develop a mental illness, there are other men who break in the army under battle conditions.

These are real battle casualties just as much as if they had lost a leg. So this is interesting because we hear all these people talking about PTSD and whatnot as if it's new and as if it was unrecognized. This book is written in 1942. Yeah. And they're saying, hey, somebody that suffers that kind of stress under battle conditions, that's a casualty, just like losing a leg. Yeah. So there you go. Yeah. And that's the part that's kind of, well, seems anyway, new is that it's just as traumatic as the physical damage. Yeah. And like you said, it seems new. Yeah. Right. It seems new. But this is World War II. Yeah. Yeah. and we just don't we always have to learn the same lessons over and over again why is that

why do we have to learn the same lessons over and over and over again it's it's a horrible reality back to the book a man in battle may receive a blow on the head that will cause injury to the brain that is serious particularly if he is a leader responsible for the direction and safety of his men this is an interesting point since the brain itself has no sense organs a man does not feel pain when his brain is injured and may think he has not been badly hurt. This is how we end up with guys with TBI with traumatic brain injuries because they don't, your brain gets rocked around, but it doesn't, it's not like a bruise. It's not, it's not aching.

I mean, you get a little bit of a headache. Once you experience a big blast, like the next day, I wonder why I got a little headache. There's a reason for that. But even what seems like a slight wound in the head must be looked after carefully. Usually the wounded man should be relieved from duty. If even a small part of his brain is hurt or if his head, has received a hard blow which does not even crack the skull nevertheless he's likely to be confused or to act in a peculiar way in battle so he's I think it's funny it look you got a blow that

didn't even crack your skull they're like that's their that's their assessment yeah it's it can't be that bad it didn't even crack your skull even a guy that didn't crack his skull needs to get checked out needs a little break back to the book a direct blow on the head is not the only way a man's brain can be injured blast of a shell nearby can cause harm to the brain. Modern helmets, however, protect a soldier's ears and his brain very well. That's kind of rubbish. How a helmet protects your ears and our helmets obviously are even more modern than the World War II.

Steel helmet that they wore, at least ours are made a Kevlar now, that's not going to protect your ears. What we do have that protect your ears, though, is we wear a lot of, a lot of, a lot of, of people wear headphones for your radio and they have noise canceling headphones. So that that does protect your ears. Is it the kind that like go over your ears or inside? They go over your ears. And there are ones that go inside your ears too depending on what you like. But yeah, most of most people are wearing noise cancelling headphones that go over both ears and they pick up noise from the outside and they they mute down. Yeah. Really loud noises. Now one thing that's, when you're wearing headphones those headphones on both ears you lose there's something

that you lose there's a couple things that you lose you lose the ability to tell distance how far away something is and where it's coming from and you lose the ability to tell where it's coming from so if you see pictures of like me of Leif of stoner most of the time we have one ear on and one ear off and and sometimes people would ask people see a picture like well don't you have your headphones on here's why you want to to be able to hear direction that someone's yelling for you and you want to be able to tell somewhat what the distance is and those things are just gone yeah when you have the noise

cancelling headphones on is there noise cancelling kind that go in your ears and there's still noise there are there are interesting yeah the ones the ones i have for shooting do that you know it has a little volume thing and and also i don't obviously i don't know exactly how they made them to work but the it's like when a gunshot goes off it actually mute everything. So if I'm talking to you and, you know, a gunshot goes off like that for that instant, you go off too, you know. That's the way it works. Yeah, and the deal, it's true, you don't know where it's coming from. So he could be over here, literally on the opposite side, you know, it's crazy. Yeah. So for guys that are in the military or in some kind of law

enforcement where you're, where you're wearing those headsets, just be advised. And I wouldn't go to the point where I'd cut that other headphone off, I would keep it. I'd just push it behind my ear and wear it that way all the time. That way, if I needed to, I could put both headphones on because you can also run, and this is another thing that's a challenge in a leadership position is you can run two different radio frequencies, one into each ear. And so when that's going on, then you've got two voices coming in at the same time talking about different things. And it takes a little bit of practice to get used to that. And actually, it's something that they say women are better at than men.

Yes, sir. They are. I've read a test. Have you read that? Yes. Yeah, I read some research about it. But women can listen to two conversations easier than men can listen to two conversations. But can they draw a bicycle?

Well, we've been through this before. It was a risky. That's a risky conversation. It was the same study that, or it wasn't the same study. It was a presentation. It was like a video with the article. It was the same one that said about the drawing the bike thing as the carry-on-tooth conversations or multitask in certain ways where.

it requires concentration, all this stuff. Yes. They are. Yeah, that's interesting. That's why, like, my wife can literally be on the phone and, like, watch a TV show that you have to follow. You know, like, do that kind of stuff. And I'm like, bro, you can't watch this show and be, like, shopping for curtains at the same time, you know? Like, either we're watching the show or we're shopping for curtains kind of thing.

Yeah. But they can do that. So they have a little advanced skill there. So the modern helmets, they don't protect, they don't protect your head from shell blast at all. Even our helmets today, they don't. Going back to the book, besides these direct injuries to the brain, men in battle can suffer shocks to the mind. Every man has his limit mentally as well as physically. There are strains which no man, however tough minded, can endure.

Modern battle has pushed closer and closer to these final limits. limits of man's endurance. Grueling hardships, great fatigue, prolonged loss of sleep, blistering heat, intense, cold, high altitudes, great pressures below the sea. These are all conditions that put a dangerous strain on the mind as well as body. When a man goes through these things and then in addition, suffered the strain of seeing his friends killed, of being in constant peril of his own life, of dealing with, out death with his own hands there may come a time when the strongest man's mind will

sicken such a sufferer from war shock is not a weakling he is not a coward he is a battle casualty if given psychiatric first aid promptly he will probably recover to take his place again in the battle unit if neglected however he may become permanently ill or may even seek relief of his mental wounds in death. So, again, this is 1942. And we still hear information about this nowadays, like it's a revelation. And it's not.

And, you know, people trying to seek relief by committing suicide. That's what they're saying here. You seek relief from mental wounds in death. What is that? That's suicide. And also, and, I think to me, it's always Dick Winners that always, I always get reminded that he's the guy that would say,

look, if you got a guy that's getting close, you pull him off the battle line, and you let him recover, and he'll be fine. If you don't pull him off the battle line, he's going to break, he's going to be no good. It's the engine, it's the engine, the car engine running in the red. If the car engine is running in the red,

you need to get it to a service station and get that thing serviced. Give it a little breather. And then it'll be fine. If you get an engine running in the red and you keep running it, guess what's going to happen? you're going to blow out the engine.

It's going to be done. It's going to be ruined. Yeah. So it's kind of like when you kind of go down that path, when you think about it, you know, people who commit suicide just in general, you know, it kind of is like kind of got to think about that. Like they were probably in one way or another injured, right, in their brain, whether it be, you know, for one, you know, by one way or another. I think you just, you can't just, when you say injured, we're not just talking about physical injury. We're talking about whatever, stress, massive amount of stress, death, seeing all this mayam and chaos. Yeah.

Yes. So, yeah, they have seen, you've got to assume that someone that gets there in these cases has seen something that's so bad or suffered through something that's so bad that they seek relief from these mental stresses in death. Yeah. So even like a non-military person where, you know, like it's common for people to be like, oh, you took these. way out the coward kind of thing right committed suicide kind of thing but if you do really hundred percent regard it as an injury just like your arm or your leg or something like that it's kind of like it seems like a little bit more understandable almost rather than calling them a coward outright yeah i'm not i'm not sure about that i think that i think that the most important thing

is to recognize that if someone hurts their arm and they keep going on it, their arm is not going to get better, right? If someone breaks their leg and they keep running on it, their leg is not going to get better. And if someone's got some massive amount of stress that causes a mental injury, physical mental injury or mental, psychological mental injury, either one of those, if they don't take a break and get some help and get some relief, then it's going to not work. It's going to break completely.

And then they get to a point where this is what we talk about. When we talk about being in a cloud and everywhere you look around, there's nothing but cloud. And you think you're stuck in this storm and there's no way out. That's where you end up. And, you know, I think Peter Tia posted an article about a young woman who killed herself. And I wrote something in response on social media,

Something like that's horrible to see, especially, I think I wrote something along the lines of, hey, that's horrible to see, especially with so many people that are fighting to live. You know, you think about people that have cancer or whatever. And someone wrote back to me, you don't understand mental illness. You know, you don't understand depression. And, like, I responded back and I said, and then he kind of said, you know, it's not like that. And I said, you're right. I don't.

Like, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I'm not a psychologist. I don't fully understand what it's like to have this going on. And it's the same thing when, when Chris Cornell from Soundgarden killed himself. And I happened to be on Joe Rogan's podcast the next day. And we started off the podcast. We were talking about it. And, you know, it's the same thing. Because what Joe Rogan and I are saying, and we're not psychologists.

We're saying, it's got to be hard to dig out of that, you know, go, go, go, go, swing a kettlebell, go do something active, which to somebody that's got massive depression, that just sounds idiotic. But to Joe Rogan and I who get a lot of satisfaction out of swinging kettlebells and doing Jiu-Jitsu, it's like, that sounds like a decent idea. Right. Sounds like relief. Yeah.

And so, hey, that's, you know, of course, should I caveat that statement with, hey, man, I'm not a psychologist. I don't really know. When I feel like I, when I feel like there's darkness in the world, I really, I really, really like to do something physical. Tim Ferriss said the same thing. Get out of your mind. Get into your body.

Like, okay, so you have those conversations and you think, this is what I think. I can't change what I think. You know, this is what I think. Someone could change my mind and someone could educate me, sure. But I'm just making a statement, hey, man, that's horrible to see. It's horrible to see, especially when there's people that have cancer or whatever, and they're fighting as hard as they can to stay alive. And someone else that doesn't have any diseases decides, you know what, I'm going to take my own life.

I'm going to kill myself. That's horrible to see. That's my statement. And someone, you don't understand this. I'm like, no, I don't. That's part of my point is no, I don't understand this. And so I will say this. I've seen how fragile the mind can be.

And really, I should, I should rephrase that how fragile the mind is. Because I've seen people that seem to be going down a good path. And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, that path is, they're gone. And that's, like, shocking. So one thing, I guess I, the part that I understand is that I don't understand it. And it's hard for me to relate to that. And it's hard for me to understand and say, well, I could have seen that coming. No, actually, I couldn't see that coming at all.

at all. So the most interesting thing about this to me is this book is from 1942. And they're talking about the same things that we're apparently still discovering right now. Like that sometimes you need to break from combat. Like that when you come home, you might be a little bit. You might have some nightmares. Like that if you break mentally, it doesn't mean that you're a weakling. And Band of Brothers does a great job of that.

the one character who's a total badass through, and all of a sudden he just can't take anymore. And they go, okay, no problem. And Dick Winters talks about it. And he says, yeah, no one lost any respect for that guy. The guy took his risks, he did a great job, and then he couldn't do it anymore. And David Hackworth describes it as, hey, people have a cup.

And the cup gets filled up. And when it's filled up, it's filled up. You can't put any more in there. He can't put any more combat in there. And it's not, some people have a bigger cup than other people. It's no disrespect. It's not a negative statement. It's just that's the way it is.

So if someone gets in these bad situations, what, in my opinion, you have to do is take a break, get someone to help, get someone to talk to about it. That can help you find your way out of the storm. That's what I realized from the times we've had, speaking of Jordan Peterson, the first time we had him on here, I had never really spent any time thinking about science.

Psychology as an actual possible thing in the world. You know what I mean? It just kind of seemed like voodoo to me, right? Sure. Yeah. And then when he was talking through some of the psychological protocols

that they use to overcome particular psychological issues, I was like, oh, okay. So this basically is like a car mechanic, right? You come in to me and you've got this problem with your car, cool, this is what we're going to do to fix that problem with your car. And so there's a certain amount of psychology that was revealed to me from Jordan as like,

oh yeah, this is when you have this situation, this is what you do to heal it. And so it's important. That was kind of a, that was a revelation to me. Not like a revelation that changed my world, but it was a, for me, psychology was just always kind of voodoo. That's what it seemed like to me looking at it from the outside. And I'm an ignorant person, right? Seriously, I'm kind of an ignorant person.

I graduated high school. I grew up in the military. I spent all my time around a bunch of other knuckleheads like me. It's like you're not talking this vast, with this vast experience of all these different data points of the world. It's like, no, I'm just a guy who never really dealt with psychology before. So for me, I just looked at, oh, it's just some weird people laying on a couch. You know, what I learned from the movies.

And so I didn't see the benefit of, hey, oh, they actually have. identifiable problems that they can see and then they have protocols to overcome those. So if someone is out there and they're caught in this storm, whatever that storm may be, if you go to one of these brain mechanics, if they would have called it brain mechanic, I would have understood it. Go to a brain mechanic. They're called a psychologist. Go to a brain mechanic and say, hey, this is the problem that I'm having right now.

Can you give me a tune up? the brain's the brain mechanic will say yep here's the protocol I want you to do this I want you to write down this I want you to talk about this and that's what they do yeah hmm mental danger signals back to the book mental first aid is just as important as physical first aid for preventing casualties and losses to the service if a in 1942 yeah if a man can be relieved of duty for a time given arrest when he needs it urgently he can usually be counted upon to come back to the combat presently with fresh zest and vigor. If, however, he's allowed to go on past his mental breaking point without letup,

if he is permitted to wait until he collapses or until the urgency of his needs makes him go on sick call voluntarily, the chances are much smaller for his rapid recovery. Check out World War I, Shell Shock, and that's what you end up with, guys that are mentally destroyed by the horror that they see and the, unremitting, nonstop presence of this horror. You have to give guys breaks if they need it. Next, the first thing to look for is anything that makes a man stand out in an awkward way from the others in his unit.

Anything that makes him look odd to the other men marks him as not belonging. Does he stay by himself too much? Does he go for long periods without speaking? Is he known to other men as having strange ideas? Does he find conditions intolerable that other men get along under all right? Is he a problem in the outfit, refusing certain foods, wetting the bed, following strange or peculiar practices? Does the sergeant regard him as peculiar? Another thing to look for is any sudden change in the soldier's own personality.

If he is a man who has been in the outfit for a while, it's easy to note a complete reversal of habits or attitudes. when the ordinarily cheerful man becomes moody and depressed, when the quiet, orderly soldier becomes boisterous and noisy, and a disciplinary problem, when the neat, well-groomed man becomes dirty and disheveled, lets his shoes go unshined, his uniform unbuttoned, his hair uncombed. When the dependable man goes AWOL and starts drinking hard, these are signs to look for mental trouble. They should be looked into.

The guardhouse may not be any help at all. Sometimes it makes things even worse. worse. So just because someone starts getting in trouble, hey, you know what we're going to do, throw them in the brig. It's not going to make things any better. In fact, it could make things worse. Back to the book, when a man has been through a particularly trying experiencing combat without relief for a long period under steady bombing or gunfire without protection, cut off from other troops or lost at sea, more acute signs of war nerves may show up. All men should know that these signs are the natural result of fear and war strain. They do not mean that a man has gone insane,

but they do mean that he needs care, rest, medical attention, and mental first aid. And here's some signs of that. Here's some signs of severe stress. Inability to sleep. Terrible nightmares in which the battle is repeated over and over. Inability to eat, buzzing or humming in his ears, shakiness, general weakness, weakness in certain parts of his body as the knees or the wrist, dizziness, peculiar feelings in the heart, fluttering, pounding, skipping a beat, difficult breathing, relentless, restlessness combined with a feeling of being penned in, an overwhelming desire to push people and walls out of the way. Rest is the principal cure for these indications of war nerves.

Rest and the care of a medical man who understands such cases and an understanding on the part of the soldier of what is wrong with you. him. These feelings are natural enough for anyone has gone through the difficult conditions of combat, but they are very frightening to a man who does not expect them, even more distressing than the shells or bombs or torpedoes themselves. This is when it's important to understand what's happening. If you don't know why you're shaking, if you don't know why you can't sleep at night, if you don't know why you can't eat or why you feel weak, like there's why there's ringing in your ears. If you don't understand why those things are happening, you

it's going to be worse for you. It's just unexpected. It's unknown and we're afraid of the unknown. Officers who understand these matters can do a great deal to relieve the men's fears of war nerves and to prevent them by their own calm recognition of the fact of nerves and their costs. So hey, officers like, hey, man, look, you just got you, you've been out here for a little too long. We're going to give you a little breather. How the mind protects itself.

The body has defense mechanisms. So has the mind. To touch a piece of hot metal and instantly. you have withdrawn your hand before you know what you are doing. If something flies towards your face, you shut your eyes without stopping to decide how to close them. These are natural means for self-protection. When the mind is attacked by unpleasant ideas, dangerous fears, it too has a way of withdrawing

or of turning away and shutting out what cannot be endured. When you see a man of ordinary good common sense become strangely blind to facts, refuse to believe that his lost brother has really been killed or refused to see that he himself is to blame for a disastrous failure. That man's mind is automatically protecting itself from a truth so bitter that he can't take it. A little bit delusional. It might be dangerous even were it possible to convince a man of the actual facts. He might, if compelled to face them, commit suicide.

That has happened more than once. An obstinate refusal to accept the truth on the part of a man of ordinary good judgment is a danger signal. Just as a fever of 103 degrees is a sense. signal of a serious physical danger. Don't try to argue with such a man. He should be given a rest or a furlough from the duty and the strain. It is apparent that the mind is hard hit. When he is fit again, he will be able to see clearly once more. He will rid himself and go back to normal, just as the fever patient does when his temperature goes back down. But it is only when the mind's natural protective mechanism are used to an excessive or unreasonable extent that they, that they

that they point to a sick or exhausted mind. Every normal man uses them daily to some extent. This is the way they work. And this goes through a bunch of things that we all do. On a daily basis, normal people, to deal with things. One, passing the buck. You see this every day. When a man fails or is humiliated, he can shrug it off or freely admit it is

his own fault if the failure is trivial and did not mean much to him or if he has strong character if the failure is a great personal tragedy all but the man of an extraordinary strength of character will try to put the blame on someone or someone else someone or something else the man who thus fails will seize upon any plausible excuse he blames the weather the man who gave him wrong advice or the man who got in his way. Sometimes he may even imagine a plot against himself and persuade him that everybody is down on him. Humiliation and defeat are hard to bear. Instinctively, every man wants to try at once to get out from under when blame hangs over him. Habits of good sportsmanship usually prevent him from doing so, but still in his own mind or

among friends, he will say, but it wasn't my fault. That's an amazing section, obviously, directly related to the idea of extreme ownership. The fact that it's only a man of extraordinary strength of character who will take the blame. That's the only person. Everyone else is going to. I think what's important about this is to recognize that, We all subconsciously know this. So when you screw something up and you go, well, you know, we didn't get the supplies we were supposed to get.

And that's why we failed. Everybody knows that that's a little character flaw you got right there just shined through. Yep. That's what's going on. Yeah. Right? It's a little character flaw. And you hear it all the time.

Yeah. It's so obvious to everyone when you're making an excuse. Yeah. No one believes your excuse. No one believes your excuse. Even if everyone's making an excuse. Yeah. It doesn't matter.

It's still the subconscious. It's like everyone, let's say me, you, I don't know. Leif, there's a bunch of people in a room and we're all making excuses. It almost seems like each individual guy would be like, oh, they're making excuses. Meanwhile, like they're not thinking, oh, I'm making excuses too, you know. It's a scary thing. what's cool is as soon as someone goes hey you know what this is actually my fault other people go oh man I need to say that too because I screwed some stuff up yeah it's all

it's kind of like you ever you ever been in like a big meeting and it kind of goes off the rails a little bit you have okay good wait have you ever been in a big meeting or is your big meeting with like your wife and your and your two kids believe me that's a huge meeting And then, you know, let's say it goes off the rails and people start like essentially raising their voice. Maybe not yelling. But, you know, and now everyone's talking. You can't hear what anyone's saying, right? But everyone's voicing their opinions essentially, just a little bit more passionately.

Right. But you can't hear anybody what anyone's saying, right? You know, that happens a lot. So it's kind of the same concept because even when you are not saying anything, everyone else is talking. You're compelled to be like, be quiet. But oh, what did you just do right there? You just added to the noise with the thing rather than like handling it kind of consciously and be like, okay, I'm not going to add to the noise. I'm going to be quiet.

Yes. Taking ownership is contagious and making excuses is contagious. They're both contagious. Yeah. And they'll both run rampant and wild until you put a check on them. The good thing, the good news about that is taking ownership is the stronger power. Yeah. So if you, if someone in that group starts to take ownership, that.

that that virus will spread stronger than the excuse-making virus. Okay, the next thing that people do is the false front. When a man is worried by the fear, perhaps only half consciously but deep in his heart, that he has a serious fault or weakness, what does he do? He puts up a great show of being just the opposite sort of person. If the man is stupid or ineffective, yet feels a need to be strong and sure he will overdo his efforts to impress people. He will be loud and boisterous and cocky. The timid person may do foolhardy stunts seeking to prove his bravery.

The man who is really courageous, strong and manly, seldom feels any need to demonstrate it. He just takes himself for granted. So there's a bunch of men. Obviously, we see this all time. People are insecure about. about the way they do something, they try and give the false front that they're great at it.

Yeah. I remember when I was young and I bleached my hair blonde. I did a few times, by the way. That's interesting. Yeah. So, it wasn't like super long or nothing like this, but it was just sure.

And it was a girl who said, hey, you just do that for attention. And I'm thinking to myself, like, I don't. Like, I don't do it for attention. You know. And then you thought to yourself more. Yeah.

Then, you know, it kind of sticks with you like, am I doing it for attention? I'm not realizing it kind of thing. And something, you know, you go around and around in your head. You know, then why did I do it, you know? Do it, did I like, like, how it specifically looked? Because it does stand out. I knew that from the beginning. Yeah.

What age is this? 20, 20. 20? Yeah. 21? Maybe. Yeah, like 20, I'd say. Okay.

So, so 90, yeah. 20 so anyway so after you think about it you're like yeah because you know I like how it looked at the time and yeah I wanted people to sort of look you know it was like and so then what did you do I don't know nothing you didn't you kept I admitted it to myself yeah yeah okay and then yeah there's a lot of uh there's a lot of wrestlers like the high school wrestlers mm-hmm they do that there's whole teams yeah whole teams everyone's got their hair bleach blonde yeah yeah Well, there's a level of arrogance with wrestling. Yeah, like, well, yeah, like self-confidence.

Like, hey, I'm going to make this happen. And it's a psychological game, right? Yeah, I'm not scared of you. Look at me. I actually bleached blonde my hair. Look at me. Yeah. Because I'm about to stick you on the mat.

Yeah. Okay, so other than semantics, is there a difference between the expression, I want attention or I'm doing it for attention versus I'm doing it to stand? out. I think those are the same thing. The same, right? Yeah. But one kind of sounds more like kind of superficial kind of. Yes. Yes. You just want attention. Yeah. No, I'm doing it to stand out. You know, I want to stand out. That's a good thing to stand up, you know. That's not a great argument. Well, yeah, that's what I'm saying. But I do see what you're saying, being, hey, I just want to stand out. That's the most positive possible way of saying, I just want

attention. Yeah. Which is what you want. Yeah. Because if you say, I want to stand out, Because you can try to stand out or pursue standing out as a good thing for a good reason. You know, like I want to stand out. I want my business to stand out. I want my XYZ thing to stand out. So, you know, so people, I don't know, sign on or whatever. But if you're like, I want to do it for attention, it just sounds like I just want the attention. Like, that's what I want.

That's the end goal, the attention. That's what it feels like when you say it, even though they're sort of the same thing. There are the same thing. I was playing soccer when I was a kid. Hell, yeah. And my dad, my parents were school teachers. Yeah. They're not a lot of money in school teaching.

And my dad, I needed a pair of cleats. So I'm probably eight years old. And my dad goes to the sporting goods store, digs into the bin of leftovers, secondhand, whatever. And he gets, And the pair of cleats that fit me is white. It's a pair white cleats. This is 19, whatever, 78.

There's no one with white cleats. This is not, everyone has black cleats. So I go to the soccer game. And like I said, I think I'm... With your white cleats. So that's the one you got. White cleats. That's what my dad.

They were in the bargain bin, right? It wasn't like my dad on the school teacher's salary was like, Hey, which pair do you want from the Adidas rack over here? No, you're getting the new buck. You know what that is? No. It's like fake leather. So you're just getting the fake leather, plastic cleats, they're white, whatever.

But I was out on the soccer pitch. And I think I want to say I scored a goal, I think. And as I was running back, like a dad from the other. team said something like you know you think you're the big star now with those white cleats I don't know if he was being nice possibly he might have been being nice it didn't sound like it to me at the time I think that right there was like the beginning of me thinking I don't want to be the guy that's dyeing their hair bright blonde at 21 years old 20 but yeah you said maybe one.

You're going to be the, you think you're going to be the big star now. He said something with those white cleats. It was something like that. Yeah. I can't remember very much from my childhood. Yeah. That I remember. You remember when you were playing like the, this is not some big soccer.

You know, they got kids playing soccer now. They got, they're looking like a professional soccer team. No, this is, you remember them things you had when you were a little kid, the yellow shirt that was like elastic around the bottom. Yeah. And you just put it on over your other shirts. It was like the yellow team. versus the other team. It was one of those things, right?

We're not talking high level. We're not talking high level soccer playing. We're talking yellow jersey. Yellows against the regular kids. Yeah, what they call intramural? Yeah. And so there I was with the white cleats on it. I remember thinking, that guy thinks that I'm trying to make a spectacle out of myself.

And he didn't say nice goal. Right. He said, oh, you think you got some nice cleats. Yeah. Were you celebrating all hard or something? No. running back I was running back yeah yeah he was hating I'm trying to think of when I celebrated hard because that's something that that's something I remember a couple times in my life celebrating hard and being like man that was a bad move and again it's probably the same age group you know like yeah

it's weird man that's that's that's that's kind of deep though where where that the because it's the opposing teams dad or you know somebody on their yeah I wonder right because there's two things that he could mean he was hating regardless He was like mad, you know, you still heard the goal, obviously. But was he like, oh, you think you're the big shot now, like, hating on, that's what I heard. You think you're cool? Or was he hating, like, on a deeper level where he was like, oh, you think you're a big shot? Oh, but look your cleats.

They suck. Kind of thing. Was he saying that? The way I interpreted it is it was he was saying you think you're special because you've got those white cleats on. Yeah, yeah. He didn't know that them were the only cleats that got afforded by it. Because my dad is a notoriously cheap guy.

My dad, we could tell stories about my dad, all 10, 15 podcasts worth of penny pinching coming from the old man. So you weren't getting these normal cleats. Yeah. These are bargain bin cleats. So that's what we're talking about. Yes, sir. Number three, taking it out on the dog. The man who suffers injury and is not strong enough to hit back may literally take it out on the dog or may go around looking for trouble with someone else.

he can talk back to a punch in the nose. Yeah, check. Here's one, borrowed virtue. A more constructive or helpful sort of mental protection mechanism is this action of a man who feels weak or inadequate by himself and who gains a feeling of strength and superiority by attaching himself to a stronger man or a strong group. It was this that sent so many men to the recruiting stations

on the morning after Pearl Harbor. As a man alone, you feel powerless in the face of threat. threatening dangers as a United States soldier you know you can go anywhere in the world avenge wrongs and protect your treasured way of life so that there's a positive way that we we roll number five is sick call when your mind is called upon to face something you dread terribly your body may come promptly to your rescue the aviation student who really dreads to go up for his first solo feeling sure he is going to crack up his plane

may develop a convenient but real headache on that day yeah you see that happen right oh feel good you see it happen with little kids too first jiu jitsu tournament I think I'm sick

first whatever you know first basketball game I don't feel good shut up you feel fine moving on the war within the man it might be much easier to defeat the enemy if men could only win in some way the conflicts that very often go on within themselves a man so this is this is where we go dichotomy the new level of dichotomy you're digging in right here a man so often wants to do two opposite things at the same time and he wants desperately to do both he wants to dominate other men and yet be liked by them.

He wants to give vent to his anger, but he doesn't want to get in hot water. He wants to gain promotion, but he doesn't want to do all the hard work. Above all, he wants to be a brave and true soldier to keep the soldier's faith, and yet he wants to live.

How to be brave and safe, that is the greatest psychological problem for the soldier. Most of the war, neurosis, mental illness in parentheses, Result from the failure of men to find any sort of satisfactory way out of that dilemma. Every man is equipped with two kinds of the deep-seated desires or instincts. Often these two conflict. One set has to do with his relations with other men.

He wants to be one of the gang, appreciated and admired by others. And he even likes to sacrifice himself for the good of the group to which he belongs, whether it is his family, church, army, or nation. But he also has another set of desires that cannot ever be entirely denied. Desires connected with himself, his life, his comfort, his personal freedom. No amount of patriotic fervor can wholly kill or drown out the calls of the more personal instincts. Only a few rush to enlist with no misgivings. For most men, there is some concern.

or distress in making the decision to leave home, family and job in order to join the service of the country. A move to a war theater and an advanced to close contact with the enemy usually brings a crisis in the battle within the soldier as well as in the battle against the enemy. When a man finds himself close indeed to death, then his instinct to self-preservation, one of the most powerful urges every normal man has, makes every fiber of his being protest against facing the danger. Yet his comrades, his officers, his country are all counting on him to do his bit, a pretty big

bit risking his own life, yet they are counting on him. If the personal instincts win the struggle, the man, when contact with the enemy forces is made, will run away or will surrender. If the social instincts prevail, then he is the stuff of which all good soldiers, all heroes are made. Most men who have traveled the hard path of army life up to the front lines put up a good fight once they get there. For a few, so there you go.

You either have guys that, okay, you know what? Of course, I want to stay alive, but I'm going to be loyal to my country, my army, my team that I'm with and the guy to my left and my right. And so guess what? I'm going forward into the fray. The other, that make the other decision are, well, you know what? I want to stay alive, so I'm going to run away. So there's two distinct types of behaviors.

Most of the time, it's, hey, we're going to put up the good fight. Occasionally, it's a coward. And then this is the interesting one. For a few, however, this struggle ends in a stalemate, a compromise. That is what a war neurosis is, a compromise of this internal conflict. If a man goes on being torn by his conflicting desires, if he cannot bring himself to go forward, yet is too conscientious to give up, he will suffer from the type of neurosis characterized by anxiety he finds he can no longer concentrate he becomes

confused the expression on his face his pulse rate his rapid breathing betray the fierce battle going on within him within him he himself may not be fully aware of the cause of this terrible sense of fear and horror that seems to hang over him yet he is in a way solving his problem he is making himself too inefficient to continue to fight yet giving himself so much suffering that his conscious cannot accuse him of taking the easy way out. Yet even so, he does not know that he is doing all this. His nervous system does it for him.

The man who suffers in any of these ways is not to be blamed. He is not a coward. If he were, he would have no conflict. That's an interesting point. So if you're just a coward, you're just like, screw it. I'm out of here. But the guy that freezes up and gets so nervous, he doesn't want to run, but he doesn't want to go fight.

He can't solve that conflict in his head. Back to the book. if he were, he would have no conflict. He would see to it that he was not at the front, but in a soft, safe job somewhere at a good distance. If necessary, he would desert, but he does not desert and still does not fight. He compromises with a difficult, unpleasant alternative, one which he does not choose, but which his nervous system chooses for him. He cannot control it. the leader who lectures him, balls him out or punishes him for neglect of duty is only to increase his trouble. On the other hand, coddling such men is a mistake too. So you can't go to, you got to balance

this. You can't go super hard on them, but you can't coddle them either. You need to balance this dichotomy. What they need is understanding help, the reassurance that comes from a firm but friendly attitude on the part of those who deal with them. They need the encouragement of assurance that such things happen to the best of men, but that men may get over such difficulties with aid. They need to be told that they will be helped by a good night's sleep, perhaps drug-induced by the medical officer, by a good meal, and by rest, and that then they will be expected to return to the fight and do their duty with the others. So that's a pretty interesting way of looking at it. And I would say, as I thought about that, think about how many

how much nervousness you feel. If you think about the nervousness is actually in, it's an internal war between two decisions that you could be making, right? What should I do? Should I buy this new car or save the money? Right. Like, which one should I do?

Well, I really want the car, but I know it should save money. Right. You get this little internal, internal conflict, and that's what the struggle is. You're not really actually nervous about buying the new car. You're not nervous about save money. You can't make a decision based on the two things that you want to make.

Yeah. So we get those little I think it's if you if you frame things up if you're feeling stressed about something if you frame up what is actually stressing you out There's a good chance that what's actually stressing you out is you're just trying to figure out which decision to make Yeah, yep, that is true and one thing that you can do is you can if you play your card if your brain plays the game out You can be so you can not make a decision. Oh yeah because hey, you're just not making a decision There's, bro, it's like that. It's crazy how they, I mean, that's the first I've heard anyone articulate that little bit, because, bro, I'll get that in the most, like, stupid mundane things.

So, okay, bear with me. Some of some, I'm unloading the dishwasher. So on this side of my kitchen, which is like, it's kind of a longer, like, kind of kitchen. So on this side, this is where pots go. But it's not just posse. It's pots and then certain kind of little, these little soy sauce dishes. And then on this side is like silverware and then there's like plates, right? So I'm unloading the dishwasher and I'm trying to be efficient.

I'm not rushing, but I'm trying to be efficient. So I'm grabbed. I have like, you know, I get like maybe four dishes of sorts at a time. And so, but I look at what I grabbed and I get this feeling like, shoot, where do I go? Do I go here first, you know? and put away the pots first that I have in my hand, or do I go over here? Because if I go over here,

I can do that kind of thing, and I'm at this little conundrum. But I'm like, you know what I should do? And this is all just going on my head. It takes maybe like four or five seconds. Dang, that seems kind of long, actually. No wonder you ain't making videos. You're in there debating yourself about pots and pans and glasses

and soy sauce dishes. Who has a soy sauce dish? Is that an actual thing? Come on, man. And it's bad because this is, I'm not exaggerating. This literally goes in my head. And it's this micro little almost anxiety. It's not anxiety, but it's like it's there.

It's something. It's not like, you know, I'm not just like, oh, just making taking action. I'm not doing that. I'm like literally standing there and not doing anything thinking about this stuff. So I'm like, okay. I'm glad you're not in a situation where you have to make actual decisions. Bro, me too. That would be a problem.

If this is any indicator, it will be a problem. So I'm looking and I'm like, shoot, where should I go? try this side. I said, no, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to put, put this whole side, the dishes that go on this side of the kitchen, I'm going to put those back. I'm going to grab stuff that all go on that side. Oh, wait, now I've got to take the time to put this back in search and grab other ones.

I'm losing time. That's less efficient, given the point that I'm at right now. So I'm like, man. And then, you know, and then, of course, I'll just be like, whatever. I'll just kind of go. But the point is, Brad, that happens. It literally happens. If it happening to you, Echo Charles.

with dishes. Yeah, I can imagine that other people feel it when there's actual decisions to be made. And just to wrap this whole thing up and I don't want to talk about that anymore, ever. But if you were smart, you would just organize your kitchen so that everything is located,

co-located, all things that go from the dishwasher go into this small area. So think about that one. Don't think about it for too long. No, bro, because I don't want you to freaking stress out on her. Get anxiety. But that a lot of those, like,

He puts it in terms of like in two time kinds of instincts, right? Yeah. Social and human survival. Yeah. It's like a big one, or a way to see it is like how you pointed out to me like the long game. You know, it's like either you're playing the short game or the long game. So it's kind of like that. Like there's like you, you had the example of the buying the car thing.

That's the short term versus long term payoff situation. Most things are when you have that little conundrum, you know, like a, you know, I'm going to eat this pot of brown or this pan of brown. But I want to eat those brownies because they're delicious, but I don't want to get, you know, you know, put on weight or whatever. You know, it's kind of the same thing. I want both kind of thing, but and they, most of the time, I think, anyway, it sorts itself out to be a short-term versus long-term struggle. And I think the important thing here is that you can actually take this concept and apply it to meaningful decisions that human beings have to make. Yeah. Not just soy sauce bowls and brownies. No diet is a big one. Diet is a big one. It's not a big one when you compare it to storm. the beaches of Iwo Jima. Just saying. I agree with that.

Yes, sir. And speaking of which, and this is where, this is, obviously, this part here is probably written more directed at you. Back to the book, men differ greatly their abilities to stand up under this internal personal conflict. Most men can come successfully through terrorizing experiences, revolting scenes and exposure to death. War is older than history in all nations and tribes.

have resorted to it. So even the terrorizing experience that you have with the soy sauce bowls, that one's got, that's rough. Continuing, the average soldier has conflicts, but settles them himself with no one else, the wiser. So he finds himself free to fight with his whole strength.

On him, the average free soldier, victory depends. Fortunately, the first contact with the enemy is the hardest. In seasoned troops, internal conflict diminishes. They have faced the worst and no, it is not intolerable. Even soldiers who have to retreat are not defeated if they have learned to conquer their own fears. That's a good one. Even soldiers who have to retreat are not defeated if they have learned to conquer their own fears.

They will advance another time, having once won the fight with the inner man and having faced the reality. of battle finding it finding in it less terror and more opportunity for success than the green recruit could ever have believed possible so now we get to this section in the book and like I said this is the section that I actually wanted to cover but we ended up covering this whole book over the course of three podcasts and this section is called leadership you can't boss a brick you can't even boss a unless the dog has been trained to obey and has formed habits of responding to commands. And before you can boss him, you must know what commands he will respond to.

The famous seeing-eye dogs can do wonderful things to aid the blind, but both dog and master must first go through a period of training. So there you go. And now we get this. Authority is not power. That's an epic statement. Listen to this. No amount of legal authority.

over the grizzly bears of British Columbia would enable you to get yourself obeyed by them out in the woods. Men can be commanded only after they have acquired habits of obeying and after their leader has learned to give them commands that make these habits work. All successful leadership thus depends on the habits of those who are to be led. The officer standing before his men is limited in the direct exercise of his authority by what the troops are able to get through their eyes and ears. So this is interesting. You're going to see in this opening section here, it's really leaning towards that traditional military idea of leadership. It's like, look, if you're trained correctly and I give you an order, you're going to listen. And so that's where this thing kind of starts off with.

And as you probably can figure out, that's contrary to what I believe effective leadership to consist of. But it's talking about it. And even though I don't believe that's the most effective form of leadership, and a matter of I know it's not the most effective form of leadership. That being said, it is a form of leadership. And it is, it can be effective. It does work in many situations where it's like, look, I'm the boss. I'm the one that's right in the paychecks.

I'm the one that's got the rank. And when I tell you to do something, you know, you're going to get it done. And that is a normal sort of baseline, rudimentary form of leadership. So it does exist. Back to the book. when authority is not obeyed, the fault may lie in the manner of speech of the leader, or else it may be that the men are in need of basic training. So, say, look, if people aren't listening to you, it could be the way that you're talking to them.

And now it starts to, and the reason I said this is starting off talking about type of leadership that I don't really find to be optimum at all, but you're going to see that it start to lead towards the type of leadership that I do believe to be effective. and they actually believe it to be the most effective too. So continue on. It is often said that a good leader knows how to handle his men. Actually, however, it is not possible for any leader to handle his men. It is himself that he handles.

Then the men react to his deportment. And the way in which they react depends in turn on their habits of thought and action. So that's a great statement of being the little. leader, it's, it's, you don't handle your men, you handle yourself. You're the one that you need to handle. And then if you handle yourself correctly, the team will then react to the way that you handle yourself. So that, now we're starting to lean towards what I believe to be good leadership. That's leading by example. Next section, discipline. In an army, much of this training on which leadership depends is established by discipline. Discipline is training in the habits of attention and obedience.

Without such habits, we might have a crowd or a mob, but not an army. It is quite possible to lead a mob, yet such leadership is uncertain, depending largely on the accidents of personal appearance and unfortunate timing. In an army, however, there have been many leaders of many ranks, and they have been interchangeable. If a leader is killed, another must be ready to take his place and lead men. So it's talking about discipline and this is talking about the traditional form of military discipline. Hey, there's a rank structure. You must be obedient. And that is not the optimal type of discipline that I believe in, which is, hey, we are a discipline team. We have discipline standard operating procedures. We understand what the mission is. We understand what

the goals are. We are going to move in that direction with discipline. And the discipline is not imposed discipline that I impose on my team. It's discipline that they impose on themselves because they realize that it makes them more effective and more efficient and more likely to be able to accomplish the mission, which they believe in. Now it talks a little bit about learning obedience. And again, obedience to me is not something that I'm looking for for my team. It's not what I'm looking for. I'm not looking for obedience. I'm looking for people that know how to understand what the goal is and that are going to move towards the goal.

The first requisite of command is attention. So you got to get people to pay attention to you. That makes sense. What men do invariably and repeatedly is finally drilled into them, becomes for them second nature. They learn to perform acts or maneuvers in response to commands or orders because the command or order has always been accompanied by the act and the act by the command. Mere lecturing never trains men in action. At best, it makes them learn mere word sequences, except when the listeners already know enough about the required action to perform in imagination. Learning something new, in other words, requires participation.

You don't learn to swim by taking a correspondence course. So yes, you have to drill people. You have to make it second nature. That is true. And we do that in, we did that in the SEAL teams. They do that in the military. People know what they're going to do. When they get shot at, they know what from a certain direction.

Everyone knows what they're going to do. And we drill it over and over and over again until you don't have to think about it's second nature. Unfortunately, bad habits as well as good can be learned. If on spoken command, men do not respond, then they are learning not to respond. Whenever they are ordered to do something they cannot do, they are learning to disobey.

Military manuals embody this fact in a rule. Never give a command that you do not expect to be obeyed. Now, that's a brilliant statement. And I don't necessarily think it's a brilliant, statement for the same reasons. But actually pretty close. If you wait, if, if I'm looking at you and you're working for me and I say, hey, you need to get all this stuff moved by by noon today.

And I know there's no physical way for you to do it. I'm wasting it. And I'm, I'm diminishing my authority over you because you're thinking, no, there's no way I can do that. So now you're definitely not going to do it. And the next time I say to get something. You've got a you've got a you've got a preconceived notion that you don't really have to do it Yeah, so that's a great statement if you're in charge never give a command that you don't expect to be obeyed don't do it

Keep your mouth shut figure out something that can be done Thus a young leader when he finds himself so situated that his command might be disregarded must refrain from giving it He must first try to change the situation capture the attention or he must merely wait until he is reasonably certain that when he gives his order, it will indeed be obeyed. So, make sense. And now we get into the section called the leader. And this is now where we start to come towards the vision of leadership or the principles of leadership that I believe in. Back to the book. A good leader does not depend solely on the authority that discipline gives him as an officer or non-commission officer for good leadership goes far beyond discipline.

A good experienced leader inspires respect, confidence, and loyalty in his subordinates, all of which enable him to get from his men performance far above what a new leader could command. So there you go. All this stuff that we just talked about, you got to train him, you got to have discipline, you got to make sure they're going to obey your orders, you got to teach him obedience, all that stuff is nothing compared to the power. of respect of loyalty continuing on in this the leader can rely on the generous

cooperation of his men for men have a natural longing to respect and have affection for their leaders they want to be proud of their officers and non-commissioned officers just as they want to be proud of their unit and their branch of service when the when the new army was first being formed many of the officers had little experience in command. They had learned the words were capable of giving directions and instructions, but they had learned neither the action nor the manner that go with the command. A young officer would utter an order, but his manner would betray his lack of confidence. This uncertainty was, in effect, a signal for not carrying the order out promptly and effectively, as military orders must

be carried out. All our lives, we have depended on the manner and behavior of others as well as on their speech to know what is in their minds. Army discipline cannot change human nature. What did Sarah Armstrong say that 70% of conveyed message in a conversation is from nonverbal? Nonverbal cues. That's massive. I wonder if that includes like tone.

Yeah. Or not. I don't think it does. Technically wouldn't, right? Yeah. Because that's a verbal cue. Yeah. So we know that I'm whatever the number is.

it's a massive amount. It's a massive amount that is conveyed by what your posture is, what your delivery looks like, what your countenance reads, all those things. And then let's include tone in it, right? Which the tone should be in there somewhere.

If you're giving orders and you look like you don't know what you're doing and you sound like you don't know what you're doing and you're using a tone that sounds like you don't know what you're doing, you're not going to get a lot of people jumping in there to execute what you're telling them to do. Yeah. That is nuts.

Because when you think about it, I mean, even saying that, you start to think about what and what, like all the little things, all of them that you're doing while you're saying something or trying to say something. Like even blinking. Like even if you blinked one time versus 10 times, just blinking that teeny, teeny tiny thing. Yeah. When you said, you know, like, brad, it's like you're saying something completely different. Even if. Yeah. Even if.

No, like when I'm talking to people, I will not blink. Yeah, I noticed that very early early on in our relationship that you don't really blame when you're talking. But I will look. And the weird thing is, is I'm not consciously doing that kind of thing. Yeah. But I do know that it's happening. Yeah. And man, when I first started making videos, I noticed it a lot.

So, you know, because I noticed like villains and characters, certain types, quote unquote types of characters. So when a villain, when an actor is playing a villain and he's saying, something that's evil or whatever and he's blinking bro i don't buy it at all and to the fact you kind of can't really buy it but if they're saying something what if it's important in whatever way and they're not blinking it's almost like man that alone sells it so much just that alone of course there's other stuff but like yeah what blinking even like wrinkling your forehead kind of thing like all these little things so it goes so deep that you know you can take two people one guy does hand motions all the time just he moves his hands a lot when he talks and

And the other guy does the exact opposite. He moves his hands so little that it's noticeable. It's not that, oh, he lacks verbal communication. It's his in-it's that his inaction is his verbal communication. You know what I'm saying? So it's not like he has less verbal communication than the guy who uses his hands. He has just his watch. He's just saying something completely different because he's still, see what I'm saying?

So it's like just all these non-verbal things. That's how deep it goes, man. Yeah. And this is where self-awareness. This is where role playing and most important. Because look, you're not going to become an Academy Award winning actor. So what you actually need to do is believe in what you're saying. That's what you need to do.

Because if you don't believe in what you're saying, your troops are looking at you thinking, he doesn't even believe this. Why am I going to go charge this machine gun nest? This guy doesn't even believe that he should be charged in this machine gun nest. And yet, if you truly believe that this is what? should go down, people will see that you believe it and they're going to follow. Yeah. So how you feel about this?

This might be slightly separate. Okay. So, you know how people, they'll give you the advice. Like, you want to, you want to act confident. You want to be confident when you do this stuff, even if you're not confident or whatever. Okay. So it's kind of like people can smell when you're not confident and you're acting confidence.

The same way they can smell it when you're trying to act casual or act to relax. I can see, you know, everyone can see that. But if you do it enough, doesn't it start, don't you get kind of good at it? Well, that's the advice that I give people isn't go be confident when you talk to people. What I say is when you talk to people, make sure you know what you're talking about. Yeah. Because if you know what you're talking about, you will come across as confident. Why will you come across as confident?

Because you are confident. Now, sure, there's some people that have some natural ability to, Act confident even when they're not. Yes, and there's also some people that can be very convincing and Telling people to do something that they don't actually believe it. That's very rare. It's very rare and even I feel like those people and obviously I don't know because I don't know the people, but it seems like those are the people. They're just used to doing it. They're used to telling tall tales with complete confidence. Yeah, but you can see How people if they repeatedly talk about the same thing? Certainly they get better at it. Yeah, and can they take that too far where they're just turning? into a robot that's up there reciting something that they've heard and people go, oh, this guy just got this memorized. Because that's jacked up too, right?

Like if you just go, oh, this guy's just memorized this thing and he's not really into it. Right? That's not a good sign either. Yeah. People can see through that. Yeah. If it's like, yeah, man, you've manufactured enthusiasm or something like that. Yeah, if they can smell it for sure.

Yeah. But because some people like, they'll memorize it. Let's say if it's a speed, it obviously depends on that. context totally but you know if it's a speech or a lecture or presentation that somebody's giving that they always give and you know when they talk about this XYZ exciting part or you know important part they've done it literally 10,000 times so they're not going to convey natural excitement they have to sort of manufacture it for the crowd kind of thing and yeah if that you know manufactured

excitement comes off as manufactured to the crowd yeah that'll jam you jam your whole thing up yeah And I think that's why you have to be talking about something that you know about is part one. And part two, you have to be talking about something that you care about. Yeah. If you don't care about, you don't want to hear me stand up and talk about something, you know, some, whatever. You don't want to hear me talk about candle making. Sure.

Right? Because I don't care about candle making. In fact, I don't really like candles. All right. Cool. I'm just being honest here. I respect your opinion. I don't like candles.

Why would you have candles? It's 2019. You have a light, right? Well, there's many different reasons for candles, but yeah, mood lighting, you know, scented. My point is, I don't like candles. You don't hear me talk about candles. You don't hear me talk about the construction of candles because I don't care about it.

And I'm not going to give a very passionate talk about candles, even if I studied the subject matter. If you hear me talking about leadership, you can't harness the enthusiasm that I have for talking about leadership. You can't hold it back. It's coming out. It's unbridled. It's unbridled. It's coming out because I really care about this.

When I'm talking to a bunch of people that are leaders, I want them to win. I want them to learn. I want them to absorb what I'm saying because I know it can be helpful to them because I've seen it be helpful to thousands of people. So I want them to get the message. And so it's going to come out that way. So I know what I'm talking about. I believe what I'm talking about, what I am talking about, and I care about what I am talking about. And if you're talking to people, try and talk about things that you know about, that you care about, and that you believe in.

And if you do that as a leader, when you're giving direction and it's direction that you believe in, it's direction that you care about the outcome and it's direction that you know and understand, you are going to come across like a confident leader. and people are going to listen to you. If you're failing in those categories, it's going to be harder for you. This is interesting. Continuing on, and we just went on a little riff right there, but a leader is actually giving conflicting orders

if his uncertain manner hints that he does not expect obedience or that he thinks he may not be obeyed. So even if you stand up and you say it, you can be give conflicting orders if you just look like you're unsure of what you're doing. Well, yeah. Although it is possible for the new leader who has lacked experience to imitate the manner and tone of wiser leaders around him, only practice and command develops the appropriate manner and tone. And I would go further to say, it's not just about practice.

You're not going to become a good actor. What you want to do is you want to believe in what you're saying. You want to care about what you say. You know what you're saying. No, no much what you're saying. Next, lack of a confident manner inevitably interferes with command. so also may a manner that betrays indecision for men respond to the signs of indecision by withholding or delaying action. The rule is that a leader should make up his mind and arrive at that decision before he gives orders.

Very obvious, but not so obvious because people screw it up. When he confronts his men, he must be ready to commit himself to this course or that. Men will accept assurance for competence and they do not want competence. And they do want competence and leader. Now, this is, again, this is a situation where I, men will accept assurance for competence. That's not readily true. Because, just because if you're sure of yourself,

the only way you're going to be sure of yourself is if you are competent. Unless you're one of these small fractions of people that are con men, right? A con man that can be, this is what we're going to do, everyone. Like, that's, you're a con man. If you're really good at that, it can be lying to people and telling them something that you don't believe in, Fine, it'll work sometimes. If you're great at it, it might work more often than that. If you're a normal person and you want to be a really good leader,

you shouldn't be just using your confidence to overcome the fact that you don't believe in what you're doing. And it's going to be really hard to do that. It is really hard to do that. People have really good lie detectors in their minds. This is a great section. What soldiers think of leaders? For the first time in the history of armies, the Army of the United States has undertaken to find out what its enlisted personnel think about a large number of things important to the army.

Some thousands of soldiers have been interviewed at length, and one of the subjects about which they were questioned is army leadership. What the soldiers said makes it very clear that the quality of leadership in an army is the most important single determiner of morale and performance. Did everyone just hear that? What soldiers said makes it very clear that. the quality of leadership in an army is the most important single determiner of morale and performance. What do we say now? At Eschon Front, we say leadership is the most important thing on the battlefield. I luckily don't have to pay the writer of this book to say that because that's the same thing.

Leadership is the most important thing on the battlefield. is the single most important determiner of morale and performance. Continuing on, the relationship between men and officers commissioned and non-commissioned determines the fighting spirit of an army quite as much as the ability of the soldiers to take training does. In fact, it turns out that these human relations are much more important to morale than beefsteak, warm socks, ball games, and vaudeville shows or what the men believe about the war. What they think with the relationship that you have with your people is more important than all these other things.

It's more important than their actual belief in what they're doing. More important than their belief in the war. Continue on. Among the 150-so items covered in the interview, 77 proved to be definitely associated with morale and of the 20 most closely related to morale 16 have to do with man-to-officer relations. what the men think of their leaders is then of utmost importance to the army and to the successful prosecution of the war roughly in order of their association with good leadership in the minds of the enlisted men are the following points so here's what makes a good leader one ability competence comes first the good officer must know his stuff

For on this depends the confidence in his leadership. Boom. And interestingly, that is proof of what I just said. That if you don't believe in what you're doing and you don't know what you're doing, everyone's going to sense it. So competence number one. Number two, next to the ability, next to ability is interest in the welfare of the soldier. The officer who can be trusted to help the soldier in time of need.

or who would be accessible for personal advice is a good officer. So you got to be caring about your men. Number three, promptness in making decisions is next. Number four, good teacher or instructor follows. The leader who has the patience and the ability to make things clear to get men under him, to get to make things clear to the men under him is valued for that reason. So you've got to be a good teacher. Number five, judgment, common sense.

and the ability to get things done, follow in next. Judgment and common sense. Isn't it interesting? Common sense? You know what we want? We want you to have some common sense. And that horribly cliched saying of common sense sometimes isn't very common.

Yeah. And it's a cliche because it's true. Yes. You know how many times I've been sitting in a big meeting? I'm planning. You know what I mean? And said something that was so, obvious to such common sense and had people kind of jaw drop at this amazing statement,

which was completely obvious. Because sometimes common sense isn't too common. Yeah. It's only common to you. It's like relative. You know, like that's why it's never like a, I shouldn't say never, but it's not that good of an idea generally seem to be like, it's common. And be like mad at someone for not knowing, quote unquote, common sense.

Yes. No. It's not good and it's not good when you make a statement that is common sense to say it condescendingly. Like, this is just common sense. Everyone, you need to do this.

Yeah. And then everyone already is mad at you. Yeah. They're resentful of you. Yeah, just from the tone alone. Just from the tone alone. And then on top of that,

it's like, you got your arms crossed and you're shaking your head. Non-verbals. Sarah Armstrong verbal cue cues. Yeah. Yeah, man. Because common sense in California is different than common sense.

sense in Texas. Some of it. Possibly. Oh, yeah. Well, common sense in Texas is different than California. I'll tell you that. That's true. That's a good point. Yes, you are correct. So you can, yeah, the number's going to be on you when you start doing that stuff, the condescending deal. Here we go. Number six,

the good leader does not boss you around when there is no good reason for it. Soldiers dislike an officer who throws his rank around, who tests his own authority continually. They sense that he is not sure of himself. Let that one sink in. If you're bossing people around, using your rank to make things happen,

your people don't like you. Yeah. And there's someone that says, I'm not here for my people to like me. You're wrong. If your people don't like you, they will not perform as well as people that do like you and you're their leader.

Number seven, the man who tells you when you have done a good job rates well as a good leader. Failure and commendation is a common. and complaint among Meng in the ranks. The best incentive to good work is the prospect that it will be noticed and remembered by the leader.

Solid. Next. And that's something I don't do a lot of. I'm not like a okay, good job, buddy. But I will say that when I do tell someone they did a good job, they know that I mean it. They're usually pretty fired up that I said it to him. Yeah, I would agree with that.

Number eight, physical strength and good build come next. You're nodding your head over there, Echo Charles. Well, I agree. Jack. I mean, okay, so at risk of sounding like maybe disparaging anyone in particular or any type person in particular.

But I'm just saying this is like factually. So you ever watch it like a self-defense video? Yes. And no matter what they're teaching. Yes, because I'm, I follow McDojo life. Yeah So Dean Lister And Joe Rogan reposts those

McDojo life things But yeah They show all kinds of weird Self-defense things And I know where you're going with this Yes So physical You know

The self-defense guy Who doesn't look like He could make it up a flight of stairs Yes And you're thinking Bro I'm not going to listen To anything that you say Right

Which technically His physique does not prove The effectiveness of his technique That is true It doesn't But What about when he's got the sign Hanging up in the background

That says Honor strength the discipline and the only discipline he has is putting away the quarter pounders with cheese daily and that's that's the point you know so yeah it's like brad is something and i again i don't want to disparage anyone's system or whatever but yeah man if i'm a soldier or a listener or a follower and i'm gonna first impression right i come up to you and you're gonna teach me something and you're like sloppy you're a sloppy person i'll tell you that's at the very least that's a struck against Well, there's no doubt about it.

And they're just, just even me and Ramadi and telling all my guys, hey, you will wear a square or a uniform because first impressions mean something. Yes. And so if somebody shows up to be in charge of you and they can't take charge of their own health, it's an indicator that maybe they got some other issues, especially. I mean, then this is clearly directed at people that are in the military because military is a physical job. Pretty much regardless of what you're doing in the military, you have to have some physical capability to. put on a rucksack and go and walk for a long period of time you got to be able to do these certain physical activities and if it's apparent from looking at you that you can't do that respect is going down and by the way this isn't this isn't me talking this isn't you talking this is what these

thousands of soldiers that filled out this survey said hey physical strength and good build come next that's what's respected and it's definitely not mandatory because i mean napoleon was like a tiny guy, right? So it's not a mandatory thing, but don't be out of shape. Yeah. I can tell you that. Yeah. Get in shape. Hey, get in shape.

How's that? If you're not in shape, get in shape. It'll be better for you as a leader. It'll be better for you as a human being. It'll help everything that you're doing. So do it. Number nine, good education, sense of humor, and guts or courage. Number 10, impartiality is next.

Leaders who do not save the dirty jobs for fellows they don't like are valued. The good leader is fair to all in his command. So be fair. It's common sense, which I guess isn't too common. Allegedly. Next and importance is industry. Leaders who do as little work as they can get away with are not respected by the enlisted men. Yeah.

Don't be standing around with your hands in your pockets. Don't do that. 12. When an officer gives orders in such a way that you clearly know what to do is a mark of merit as a leader. Soldiers also like an officer with a clear, strong voice. There you go. That makes sense. The remaining qualities which the soldiers mentioned came toward the bottom of the list. They are undoubtedly related to good leadership, but they are less important.

not hot-tempered do not drive you too hard keep promises the kind of fellows you could have a good time with not too proud of their rank are all characteristics which some men want in their leaders but there is no general agreement about them many leaders are considered good in spite of failures on these parts The chief things a man wants from a leader are thus competence and interest in his welfare. The orders of a man who does not know his stuff cannot be dependent on. They are subject to change and countermand. An incompetent leader teaches caution and hesitation in following his lead. He becomes a signal for lack of action on the part of the soldier.

Indecision in a leader has the same effect on a soldier as ignorance has. No soldier can follow a soldier. leader who's uncertain which way to turn the essential quality of any leader is to take lead and show the direction quickly clearly emphatically and with enthusiasm without these qualities a man is not even a good leader for his hunting dog now the interesting thing about that is there's a there's a little dichotomy that reveals itself it's like okay you got to be decisive and give direction quickly clearly and emphatically that's great that sounds good what happens if you're not sure what happens if you're truly not sure which direction to go then what

you do is you say hold up it's a former perimeter where we got to get a resection on the map that is so much better than saying all right well we're gonna push a little further you know what I mean like I'm not really sure where we are and hold on and wait if you you just go hey look we're a little turned around right now we're gonna get a couple resections we're to check the GPS whatever we're gonna do we're to find out exactly where we're on there we're gonna move forward take five yeah it ever goes oh cool jocco's got this under wraps we're good I guess technically that is being decisive it is being decisive yes you can be decisive in trying to uncover what the next move is going to be because you're not sure but

sometimes people try and you know BS their way through a scenario like that and that again you're you're you're you don't know what you're doing and you're proving that so it's best to be truthful and say hey look we're turned around right now we're going to form a perimeter we're going to cut a resection we're going to find out where we are and then we're going to move you got 10 minutes boom everyone goes okay cool yeah good times so those that is a great list of what what people look for from leaders and sure it's directed at the military but almost every single one of those is equally applicable to any leadership position next the role of the soldier part of what makes a man a good soldier his own is his own adoption of the soldier's role he comes to think and speak of

himself as a soldier what a man thinks of himself affects his behavior the rail straightener which is the skilled worker who runs the machine that straightens railroad rails is one man when he thinks of himself with pride as a rail straightener he becomes another when he begins as he may to regard himself as a mere wage slave the rail straightener takes pride in his work does a good job is happy the wage slave, let's crooked rails get by because he doesn't care.

In the same way, the soldier who thinks proudly of himself as a soldier is doing a service to both himself and the army. How smart is that? That is very good. Yeah. It's like you're kind of introducing

a sense of identity, right? And they're like their job. Like this is what you do. And people will do that, you know, for themselves. Oh, yeah. You know, I'm a whatever, you know. Yeah.

I remember sometime, It was actually quite a while ago. Somebody posted a picture of a very intricate plumbing job. And it was like 8 million copper pipes all perfectly spaced coming in. I was like, this dude is proud to be a plumber. And it's let's shows. It's legit. So, yes, if you are in a job, get into the job.

Right? And let me tell you this. If you're not into the job and you want to get out of the job, the best way for you to get out of the job, is by getting into the job. You're doing something that you don't care about, care about it. Because otherwise people look at you,

why would I promote you? You can't even dig this ditch correctly. If you're out there digging that ditch like you mean it, like you try to make a perfect ditch in the world, do it. Yeah. Certain forms of punishment, public disgrace,

ridicule, all disturb the role of the soldier and may lessen or destroy his usefulness to the army and his amenability to leadership. The non-commissioned or commission officer who rides one of his men in such a manner as to make him doubt his own value as a soldier is shattering the man's best motive for good performance. The senior leader who reprimands a junior in the presence of his men reduces that junior's value to the army. Almost never good to belittle someone in front of the team. Good leadership, on the other hand, causes men to build up each for himself, a particular role, a specialty. It means a great deal to a man to take pride in being a soldier.

into being a sharpshooter, an aviation mechanic, a truck driver, a cook, or a radio operator. Competent leaders criticize a poor piece of work, condemn a mistake, but take care to never make a soldier feel he is a failure at his job. So you can criticize the mistake that they made, but don't criticize their ability in that job. When a soldier begins to regard himself as being part of his unit and when his job has become part of his role, then teamwork is enormously improved. The soldier who thinks of himself as only a private, temporarily on this or that assignment, is a different man from the soldier who thinks of himself as a necessary member of his outfit. Good information. And here's how we get selection of leaders. Rank is no

guarantee of the ability to judge leadership in others, nor are good leaders necessarily competent to assess good leadership in others. The test of competent judge is his successful predictions in the past. So you might be the highest ranking guy, but that doesn't mean you can necessarily figure out who's going to be a good leader, unless you show repetitively that you can select good leaders. The interview itself is not a fair or accurate test of the soldier. The man who would make a good leader may be a modest man who fails in an interview to exhibit those qualities that would make his men believe in him, trust him, and admire him. And the man who could never secure the loyalty of subordinates may nevertheless be by assurance and poise by voice and

manner, mislead inexperienced judges as to his capacity. So all the time I get asked, how should I interview? What should I ask? You can only figure out so much fruit. When I get asked that, I always say, okay, who in here thought they were hiring the best guy that they've ever hired, and he turned out to be a loser, and everyone raises their hand. And how many times have you taken a chance on someone that you weren't sure if they're going to work out, and they turned out to be a stud?

Everyone raises their hand. It's really hard to judge who's going to work well and who's not. And that kind of goes for, like, friends, too. You know how, like, I mean, man, that happens all the time where you meet someone and you're just, you don't really feel them that much, but they end up being your best friend or something like that, like that years later or something like that.

It's weird, like that. like certain situations, even certain first impressions, you know, that are like, they don't indicate the long haul, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It takes a little bit of time to uncover what people are real about,

really about in many cases. I can tell you, like, I feel pretty good about judging people. Yeah. And I'm probably like 70% accurate. You know, so that's not a great. Like, I feel pretty good about it, but I know that I'm only batten 70%.

Yeah. Which is like a, but the it I wonder if and do you think this do you think that there's certain things that are maybe even subconscious about people that you can sort of tell after just talking to them for a second whether it be like certain thing for sure if they react to I got asked this just popped up my mind I got asked I was at a event and it wasn't it was an interesting event it wasn't with a specific company which normally I'm working with a company and I was just at an event where I was speaking to multiple different companies And this woman stood up to ask a question.

And as soon as she stood up, I was like, this is going to be, she does not want to hear my answer no matter what I say. Yeah. She just stood up with just arrogance dripping off her. And just, I was like, no, she's not going to, she's not going to like this answer. Whatever the answer I give, whatever question she asks, she is not, she's not listening. So that, that thought that you had right there, when did that come? It was correct.

Yeah. It was basically when she stood up and then three words out of her mouth. Yeah, we're just like confirm. I was like, oh, yeah. I was like, yeah. And it's also interesting because, you know, she just, when you're working with a single company, they're all kind of on board and they're all kind of like they're, maybe they're not on board with what you're saying, but they're unified as a group trying to move in a certain direction.

So we have a random group of people. and the woman stands up and I can tell right away, yep, she's got it. She does, there's no answer I'm going to give her that's going to make her happy. Yeah. But did it feel like it was like subconscious? Like, was it like, or were you like, see the way she's standing? It was visual cues.

And then, you know, the opening of the question. I can't remember what it was, but it was like, oh, yes, confirmed. Yeah. Let me tell you something. It was one of those. It was one of those, you know. And so what I did was I preempted my answer. And I said, you're, you know, because then she asked the question.

And I said, you're actually not going to like my answer to this question, but I'm just going to tell you what I've seen and I appreciate the question. And then I answered the question. Of course, she didn't like the answer. You know why she didn't like the answer? Because the answer was the leadership question and the problem with the people that you're having is not a problem with the people that you have. It's a problem with you,

which is the way it is with all leadership problems. When you have a problem with your team, your team isn't performing the way you want them to do. It's it's is it because oh they're lazy. Oh, they don't do the mission correctly. Who's fault is that? You're the leader. You're the leader in charge of the people. So if they're not doing the mission that you want them to execute it or how you want them to execute it, you can't blame them. They literally work for you. You are the boss of them. So let's list. Do you want to explain to me how you give them the direction? You want to talk to me about like what what sort of direction you give them, how you communicate with them. And we want to. went down that road, you know, but at the end of the day, she sat down with no, she took nothing

I said on board, zero. And this is a fairly rare occasion. You know, that's why I remember. This was a couple of years ago. But I remember it because I thought, yep, she didn't. When she stood up, I said, oh, she's not listening to me. And then she's not going to like my answer. And then when she sat down, I said, yep, she's going to walk out of here and go, that guy

didn't know what he was talking about. Yeah. It's not my problem. It's not my problem that my team is all jacked up. It's not my fault that my team is lazy. One of her key components of her statement was that her team was lazy. And they weren't meeting the standards. And the answer to that question isn't, you know, beat them harder because that doesn't work.

The answer to that question is you as a leader are not doing a good job of leading them. Or there is a chance that your team is completely incompetent and you need to train them or get rid of them. Guess what both of those things are? Your responsibility. You're the leader. You need to train them or you need to get rid of them. Worst answer in the world.

Yeah. And the best. It's the worst answer in the world. It hurts. You know, Leif talks about this. Leif talks about like when he was, like when he's writing no bad teams only bad leaders. He's literally thinking about things that he did where he was blaming his team, you know?

And he's just looking, he's looking back going, here I was. Blaming my team and none of it was my fault. And that's the revelation that you have. Yeah. I've seen literally witness this like a bunch of times too where people would stand up with what I thought was sort of that sort of feel, that tone like, oh, like they're just going to stump you, Mr. No, it all, you know, kind of attitude. And then you tell them that answer.

Like it's like, hey, it's your responsibility, you know. And then I can see their mind just totally changing. Yeah. And they accept it. And actually going back to this woman when I was talking to this woman, I immediately tried to like frame it in the most humble way to not offend her ego. You know, when I told her, when I told her, you know, you're not going to like the answer I give you. I didn't say it like that. I'm going to give you an answer that I got a feeling you're probably not even going to like this answer.

But I just going to tell you kind of what I've seen, you know. So I tried to do my best. to not hit her ego in the face. The problem was her ego was big and strong and dug in. And leading the way. And it was leading out front. And so it was, you know, and that always bums me out. It doesn't happen very often.

Like I said, I mean, this is two years ago or something like that. And I'm remembering this person asking this question. I remember thinking myself, that she doesn't want to hear what I'm going to do. What she wanted me to say is, yeah, you're right. Your team is so horrible and, you know, the exception, you know, They probably just hate, you know, the world and they don't want to do a good. Like, like, you know what it is? They probably don't want to do a good job.

They probably don't want to get promoted. They probably don't want to make any extra money. They probably want to go home unsatisfied with your job. That's their deal, right? And I'm sorry that you've been burdened with this horrible team that feels that way. Yeah. Right? Because that's absolutely true.

You don't have a whole, you might have one or two people on your team that aren't very enthusiastic, but you're not going to have a whole. team that no one wants to do a good job. No one wants to put in any extra effort. No one wants to work hard. You don't have a whole team like that. And by the way, if you do have a team like that, guess what? It is your responsibility to get rid of those members that don't want to do what they need to do to win. Yeah, a lot of times when it happens, when I lead people down that that question it'll be like hey you know I got this department and I'll say oh okay well you know I got this department and they got these these mid-level managers and they're all

horrible I'm like oh well that's that's terrible who's in charge the mid-level managers oh well it's this guy oh okay who's in charge of that guy oh this other guy who's in charge of that guy well I am mm-hmm okay so whose fault is this man yeah it's your fault yeah it's truly your fault. It's funny. You'll do this technique, which I always find pretty impressive, like, as far as a little chess, it's almost like a chess game, it's not a chess game, because it's not you against the asker of the question, but there's an element to it, just like that, like, how you'd like make them answer their own questions kind of thing, but you'll go, you'll say, oh, do you think that they just want to do a bad job? And they'll be like, oh, no, no, no, nothing like that. Oh,

do you think that, like, that they want your company to fail? You know, it's those questions. Yeah, And that goes up and down the chain of command too, because someone's like, well, my boss doesn't do this? I'm like, do you think your boss wants to lower your profitability? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you think your boss wants you to do things that are less safe? Do you think your boss wants you to have people leaving on a regular basis? Do you think your boss wants more turnover? Do you think your boss, you go right down the list?

Of course it's no, no, no, no. And eventually you realize, oh. Okay. So the problem here is me because I'm not communicating well enough to explain to my boss what I need. Yes. Yeah, that's a good one. But it's good, too, also not only as like something fun to kind of watch or whatever, but You know, so you watch them kind of gain understanding.

That is cool for sure. But it helps because it helps even me or people listening, like put it into perspective. You know, like, man, no one's against you, bro. Like, you just, hey, you know, make some right moves and say some right things. And, man, get on the same page. And by the way, most of the time when someone is against you, because there are times, you know, you got that person that's a, just wants to get promoted and they're looking to step. It's like, do a good job. do a great job keep working hard make them look good what are you talking about no you make them look good

it will come back it will come back back to the book the only proof of leadership is leadership and the best thing to do is give it a chance to emerge and then have competent men judge whether it has appeared. So this is another, it's just hard to know what people are like until you actually put them in the situation. Although young men can make excellent leaders, leadership develops with experience. No doubt about that. It is known, moreover, that the men of a platoon can size each other up effectively, can pick out men who deserve advancement more consistently than leaders can. The men know competence when they see it. Thus, it appears that the officer who fails to find out quietly the opinions of his subordinates when he is selecting a man for promotion is

overlooking a valid source of information one that is in the long run far more accurate than his own judgment so listen to your people lead next section very important or important leadership can be learned there are no born leaders all leadership is based on learning how to deal with men nearly all leaders improve after they have had some experience in command. Some improve faster than others and some continue to improve while others do not. So there are no born leaders. Okay, we know my debate on this.

I actually disagree with that. Well, I should say this. Okay, there might not be born leaders, but there are people that are born with certain aptitudes for a variety of leadership qualities. and somebody posted something on social media that said there's a gene. There is a gene that you have or don't have as a human being that relates to your ability to articulate.

So guess what? If you are born with that gene and you have a high-level ability to articulate and communicate with other human beings, you are born with more aptitude to become a leader. Could you end up still being terrible leader yes because there's some people that are very articulate that are horrible leaders but it is one attribute that you are born with doesn't necessarily

make you a leader right it gives you more aptitude to be a leader so maybe that is correct you're not born a leader but you're born with a little more aptitude to be a leader back to the book consider the qualities which enlisted men believe important in leaders the first is competency and ability competence is based on learning the good leader has learned his job thoroughly so there you go that makes sense his men can trust him to know what he's doing he knows not only what he learned in his training courses but he's kept it up to date if he is an artillery man he knows how the germans use artillery and what guns they have this the rule is a simple one know your stuff so that i

agree with you learn to be competent second to competence is the officer's interest in the soldier as a man a demonstrated interest that gives the soldier confidence that when he stands up to hardship or in trouble the hardship is a necessary part of the job and his troubles give his officer concern so you got to care about your people and actually what's interesting about this whole section if you remember this is this is saying there's no born leaders but there's a whole section in the first part of this book that talks about people men have different aptitudes and skills that they either have or they don't have and someone had to do with you know you were a truck driver in the civilian sector so you're going to make a good truck driver in the

the military. But it also talked about how some people don't have the aptitude for certain jobs. So they're being a little bit hypocritical here. Just a little bit. Okay, so we're talking about caring about people. And here it says, every man can by practice improve his skill in human understanding and increase his repertoire of actions that demonstrate interest in others. The rule here is less simple. It is know your men and show it. Know their names, their history, their weaknesses, their good points, their morale. Begin by studying their qualification cards. So that's another skill that you can get better at.

Decisiveness is a skill harder to acquire, but it can with attention be it cultivated. When you have a hard choice, remember you do not usually have to make a snap judgment. Careful consideration weighing the merits of alternate courses is not indecision. Your men will respect your judgment even more if you deserve, if you reserve decision until you are in possession of all the facts necessary for a wise choice. Do not set up a council of war to pass things by vote. You are the leader, but seek advice when you need it and do not hesitate to call on your subordinates for counsel if they are qualified to give it. But choose your course before you give the orders, which we already heard. So there's and this is also a little bit contrary or not contrary, but this is an addendum to what was being said earlier that you got to be decisive.

And here it's saying, look, you got to be decisive, but you can take your time. You want to measure everything out. Another suggestion to the leader is, remember when your men do not understand you that it is your fault. You must talk their language, plain language. if you cannot express yourself clearly it may be because you do not understand the subject yourself think things through carefully before you try to explain so there you go a little extreme ownership a little simplicity in there a leader then to be worthy in the eyes of his men would do well to follow these commands number one be competent number two be loyal to your men as well as to

your country and army number three 3. Know your men, understand them, love them, be proud of them. Number 4. Accept responsibility and give clear, decisive orders. Number 5. Teach your men by putting them through the necessary action. Number 6. Give only necessary orders, but number 7, get things done. Number 8, be fair. number nine work hard number 10 remember that a leader is a symbol men need to respect and trust you don't let them down so there you go they they wrap it all back into from everything we started

started this thing talking about when they're talking about discipline and obedience this whole thing about being a leader has nothing to do with obedience it has to do with being a good leader and that's how they wrap up that chapter. That's solid information in there. Now, this next section is about mobs and panic. And what's interesting about this is as a human being, in charge of other human beings, you have to understand how mobs and panic unfold.

Going back to the book, men in a mob act just as much in keeping with their past training and habits as they would if they were alone. But part of this trial, training which men get from earliest childhood is to follow the example of other individuals and also to respond to their gestures, facial expressions, and tones of voice as well as the spoken words of others. That's an interesting concept, isn't it? And it's a little trick statement because what it's saying is, hey, when you've got a mob of people, they are acting in

accordance with how they've been trained. But then you think yourself, well, in the Army, then they wouldn't act that way. But then it goes on to say they've been trained since day one. to imitate other people. So you're actually fighting against the rest of their training when you're trying to get them to not do something that everyone else is doing. And by the way, it's an important thing that usually is beneficial.

And it goes into some of that here. When a soldier misunderstands a command, he starts to execute it as he interpreted it. But suppose in the middle of a movement, he becomes suddenly aware that the other men in ranks are doing something very different. Immediately, he corrects his action, to do what others are doing.

So most of the time it's beneficial, that little mob mentality. In the same way, the sight of a leader running or galloping to the rear and a combat area may start a whole company heading after him on the double. His example can become as much a command or order as his words. Mostly, it is a good thing that men naturally follow the example of others. It makes the world run more smoothly. Yet the good principle has vicious results when mobs form or panic starts. why mobs form

mob's form because some one event or condition has brought people together and captured the attention of every person in the crowd usually the mob is angry about something and its angry excitement makes it ready for action

panic based on fear is something else so they differentiate between the mob that is angry and the mob that is afraid that's panicking besides a common focus of attention So that's one element is the common focus of attention.

Emotion is characteristic of all mobs. Since a mob is driven by powerful emotion, it is necessarily crazy to do something. It wants action, so it only takes a cry of lynch him or burn it to set the mob in motion. Mostly, when you get into a crowd, you join it. You do just what other people do.

The sight of others seizing stones or starting an attack so grips the men. watching them that they think of no other course of action. Mobs, therefore, are uncritical. Interesting statements about mobs. I'm trying to think. When have you been a part of a mob before? I mean, in that regard to now.

I've been at some shows, and by that I mean hardcore shows back in the day where the mob would start to get something, you know, like whether it was breaking down a barrier. And, yeah, you get swept up in that mob mentality. Yeah. It's group think. Yeah. This one's talking about panic.

Soldiers do not often form mobs. Mob action among soldiers usually occurs when they are away from the usual reminders and circumstances of discipline. When they are on leave and mingling with men from other organizations without leadership. But panic can occur in the best drilled thoroughly seasoned troops. It can occur in the midst of combat. Some of the greatest routes in history have been cases of panic. The panicked group is much like a mob, but it acts from fear. not anger. Its attention is focused on the object of fear. Its thought and its talk is of danger and

disaster. Its aim is escape. Action becomes definite and mob-like only when obstacles to escape are encountered. It doesn't take much to set off a panic among troops who are panic-ripe. Then a single cry of gas or run or we're cut off may start a mad flight. And here it talks about panic-ripenes. Anything that makes men tense, on edge, jittery, and oversensitive to slight noises, half-hidden sights or sudden movements will make them easy victims of panic. For this reason, prolonged anxiety makes men panic ripe. So does over-fatigue, too much beer or liquor or a hangover. So does lack of proper food, especially deficiency of B vitamins.

And so does exhaustion from lack of sleep, prolonged exposure to noise, and alarm of modern battle may produce the jumpy state of mind from which panic arises. One main cause of panic is lack of training. Training must cover practice and defense and retreat as well as in attack if panic is to be avoided if the retreat is not to turn into a route. The sight of one or several men running to the rear, the sight of others throwing away their gear weapons may cause a general scramble and discarding of arms. bad morale is another cause of panic.

Rumor sometimes plays an important part in readying men for panic. Poor leadership can make the ground ready for panic, impairing the confidence in command necessary to hold troops to the performance of duty. How to stop a panic. This is very important. Once a panic has begun, the only way to halt it is to capture attention and then provide positive, clear commands. Leaders must act with decision, firmness, and courage. If no officer is present, any self-possessed man can assume leadership and give the scared men what they need, clear, confident direction.

So I think there's two important parts. You've got to get their attention, and then you've got to give simple, clear, concise commands, positive commands. And then it goes on to say, but the best way to stop a panic is never to have it at all. Train all men thoroughly so that they have confidence in themselves their leaders their weapons Train their leaders and select the best of them let good leaders build up good morale avoid hunger thirst and boredom as much as possible to do in war And all the conditions that lead to nervous tension and complaint If you cannot avoid them and war is no bed of roses fight them with good morale fight the feeling of insecurity tell the men all they need to know let them know all possible information about the enemy where he is what he's like how he attacks what weapons he is

using last but not least build up faith be sure the men know why they are fighting why it is a good cause let them be sure that their officers are with them all the way faith in an ideal plus faith in your leaders plus faith in other fellows in your unit can win victory against superior forces so there you go you got to watch out for that Next section. Differences among races and peoples. Modern total war has placed a new responsibility on the shoulders of the soldier. Once, his only task was to destroy the enemy. But now, psychological warfare requires him to play a new role.

He must help win allies for Uncle Sam in many strange lands. And this is what's interesting. We always think of World War, well, we think of World War II for sure as, hey, this is total war, you're not worried about hearts and minds, which was, you know, the campaign, it really in Vietnam, it was hearts and minds. That's where that kind of originated. And certainly in Iraq and Afghanistan, we think, oh, those guys didn't have to deal with this back of the day. They have to deal with this. Now we have to worry about the civilian populace and all this. Guess what? We're wrong.

1942, they're talking about this. And it goes into, there are no infallible recipes for making friends the world around. But there are two basic rules for all soldiers in the manual of psychological arms. Number one, mind your manners. Number two, understand and respect the manners of strangers, especially strangers who might help both you and the cause for which you are fighting. Seems pretty obvious. And no one thinks that in World War II they had to watch their manners. But you do.

Next one talking about race. Color of the skin is often the basis for prejudice because it is so clearly a badge of difference between peoples, a mark that sets one people apart as different as not one of us. American whites have been prejudiced not only against black skins, but also against yellow and against copper skins of the American Indian. The United States excluded both Japs and Chinese from immigration when our well. Western states became afraid of their cheap labor. And the old German Kaiser invented the slogan, the yellow peril, when he wished to unite Europe against the Asiatics.

And what I find interesting about this whole thing is this is 1942. So this is pre-civil rights movement in America. And yet we find the military forward leaning on civil rights. And we'll get to that. Sometimes the prejudice against the Negroes flares up. in the army. It is not a problem, however, in a camp where it is well understood that a soldier in the United States uniform is a soldier.

Not a white or a Negro, Christian or Jew, rich man or poor, but a soldier and as such worthy of respect. And not everyone feels race prejudice. There are plenty of white men who are constantly meeting and working with black, brown, and yellow men of education, culture, brains, and abilities. These white men know that skin color is not a sign of inferiority or superiority or superiority and they tend to forget about it or at least to regard it is or at least regarded as unimportant. These white men are numerous in Europe, South America, Asia, and Africa where the races are mixed up in business and in politics. The American soldier will be on the right track when he realizes that the differences are superficial, that other races, while different from his own, are not.

necessarily inferior he will know that he cannot tell just from a man's color whether that man will bind up his wounds guide him to a hospital when he is lost feed him if he is hungry or help him repel enemy invaders it will help him to remember that skin color in itself means nothing about the intelligence wisdom honesty bravery or kindliness of a man if he studies carefully the people of other races whom he meets he can satisfy himself that this is true so again 1942 pre-civil rights and the military is saying hey guess what folks race doesn't matter and by the way it's still a segregated army

but they're moving in the right direction how to win friends in foreign lands every American soldier in a foreign land becomes an American diplomat he has his role to play in making strange people into America's friends. Here are some rules he will find helpful. Again, this is so interesting to read because I'm telling you, when you're in the military, you think, oh, these guys back in the 19, World War II,

they didn't have to worry about that. They just went over there, kicked ass. And it's like, here they were, getting the briefs. This is the brief. This is the big brief. And here's some things that will help you be a good diplomat. And this is applicable. Like this is when you go and work with a new company.

Guess what? You want to, you want, you do want to win the hearts and minds. Here's a couple tips. One, try first of all to understand strange customs, habits, and ways of thinking. Number two, respect these customs and habits of thought, even when you can't understand them and even when they seem unpleasant or effeminate or crazy. Three, when you cannot respect foreign countries, then suppress your disapproval. Stifle your emotions. When you can respect foreign customs, show it.

You can win many friends for America in this simple way. Five, when you associate with foreign people, try to adopt their manners. Do not ask them to adopt yours. Suppress your own peculiarities as far as possible when they are contrary to the customs of the land. Number seven, when foreign customs are none of your business, then mind. only your own business. Number eight, be friendly. After all, the only way to make other men like you is to like them.

And number nine, take people as they come. Like them for what they are, not for the way they happen to measure up to your own standards, what you expected of them. So really good guidance, just in general for humans. That was interesting there. What did you say if it's like, if their customs are effeminate.

Yeah. So I remember when I was learning Spanish in high school. And they were talking about this difference between Spanish and Spain and Mexico. You know, it's different. Castilian Spanish versus that's what they speak in Spain. Oh, for real. Yeah. And in Mexico, they speak.

I don't know if they call it Mexican Spanish, but it's fast. Yeah. So I remember, you know, part of the, you know, the course, they were talking about different customs and stuff like that. So I guess, you know, in Spain, they say the S is with the Lisp, like a T.H, you know, or the Zs. I don't know. It's just a little bit, yeah. But there was this one custom that I can remember that they're like, oh, yeah, it's not uncommon to see, like, men holding hands when they're friends.

You know how like, hey, you have your hand around. But guys are just holding hands. That's how, you know. And I remember thinking, hmm, that's interesting, you know, because that's something that's really far from custom here. Yeah, yeah. But we will have our hand, like our arm around. You know when you're a kid, you got your arms around your boys. Yeah, but you're not just walking around like that.

Sometimes I guess. I don't know. When you're you're doing it. Okay, you're a kid. Yeah. You're walking off the football field after a good play. Sure, you might have your arm around your buddy. You're not walking down the sidewalk heading to a movie with your arm around your buddy.

That's not happening. Yes. So you're right. And that that custom of holding hands is really common throughout, like dudes holding hands. It's real common throughout the rest of the world. Like lots of different. places do that. Yeah.

And it's definitely, we definitely get some funny situations where the, the seal that's, you know, super macho and he's, we're overworking with some, in some foreign country. And some guys,

you know, they're talking to them. They start to like him or whatever. They start getting along. Yeah. We're going to start holding hands on our walk over to the galley. And you see, you see a team guys,

you're like, not happening. Somebody needs to brief you on our customs. We don't do that. I don't know. Well, according to the book. That's what I'm saying. You know, you can't be like...

Occasionally you got to, you know, just go ahead and hold hands with your homeboy. Yeah. But yeah, that's the kind of thing that that is rough for Americans, especially American dudes to get over. Oh, yeah. We're just going to walk around holding hands. Or like, you know, how in Europe they'll like kiss. Not necessarily on the lips necessarily, right? But they'll kiss on the cheek, right?

Yeah. Bro, you tried to kiss me on the cheek. That would make me weird for the day. You jammed me up. It'd be weird for the day for me, too, if I suddenly random. Yeah. No, kissing is no factor in much of the world for a guy to kiss another guy. Like, hey, good to see you.

Plant one on me. Well, here you. In America, it's like, hey, good to see you. Keep out of my personal space, bro. But actually, you know what, to be honest, I don't care. Like people, actually, some of my friends, they, you know, some, you know, like the Italian mafia kind of thing. Like, they'll, you know, and they'll do that.

So my friends, they kind of, I don't know. You know what the thing broke down my personal space more than anything else? Yes, I do. Yes. Jiu Jitsu. Oh yeah. The whole thing of like hugging another dude when you see him. Yeah.

I think that stemmed from Jiu Jitsu. Oh, for all for you. I don't remember ever doing that before Jiu Jitsu. Yeah. I have to think more, but it just because Jitsu is so close anyways. Oh, yeah. That when you, you know, you're just like, that's the way it is. Yeah.

So Jiu Jitsu, once again, spreading. For the wind. spreading customs around the world. Yep. Breaking down boundaries. Breaking down boundaries. They broke down boundaries for me. In Hawaii, there's a lot of kissing that goes on,

mostly between, like, between, you know, like, girls and guys. Like, even like if it's like your friend's wife, you kiss them on the cheek, that's how. Like, it's, in fact, if you don't, it's kind of like, hmm, that was kind of standoffish kind of thing. Not a huge deal, but it's like, it's that normal in Hawaii. but guys and guys you know I don't think that that's an issue like if someone kissed me on my cheek when they saw me

and it was a guy I love you bro or whatever like that wouldn't that wouldn't move me either way that'd be like yeah fine cool but I'm saying if you did because you have like a specific type of personality you know I'd be like that's a new new thing for Jocko I guess

that would be a new exploration I guess there's a time I think we're doing like a Facebook live or something and we're talking about cauliflower ear. And I was like, oh, else I said something about Leah, your ears are like soft. And then I went and you were right next to me and I like flicked your ear or something. And when I watched the live later, the look on your face was like you were genuinely,

not in a big way, but genuinely slightly offended by it. Oh, that you flipped my ear. Like it's micro, but it was there. I was at my Jiu Jitsu Academy when I was in Virginia Beach and there was a butter. of mine another seal and I had gotten him into jihitsu and he was a small guy like 140 145 scenario and but you know he was like a white belt had been training and whatnot and um we were both so now we were training and one night I showed up at the academy and we both showed up at the same time like a similar time and in this academy it was gustavo machado and guga is his nickname

great dude and so we and Google's academy at the time was pretty small and it had one bathroom and the bathroom is where you would change so put your geon or whatever so my buddy goes in there and he starts changing and me being just like a team guy I'm like whatever I'm going in too so and he's a lot smaller than me and I'm a blue belt at this time so you know there's there's that level of of uh you know like he he knows that the situation unfolds, I can submit him. That's the way it is. And so I just bust into the bathroom and he's in there.

He's changing. So he's, you know, I don't know if he was completely naked, but he was pretty close. And I come in and just drop my, rip off my shirt, drop my shorts.

And I hear him go, uh-oh. And then he goes, and then he goes, think of a happy place. We both started laughing. But, um,

Yeah. Don't care about any of that stuff. So there you go. Try and accept other people's customs and don't try and impose your customs on them or you're not doing good for the diplomacy of the country. Yeah. Yeah, like even when you go to France,

not to keep the customs thing going too long, but whether it be France or wherever, right? Mm-hmm. It's a hard one. So let's say you go to the beach where they can go topless there at the beach, right? What if you're with your wife or whatever, and your wife's like, oh, we're in France. I want to go topless, you know? How do you feel about that?

Whatever. All good. I don't think we're going to a topless beach, actually. Okay. What if she wanted to go, though? She doesn't. All right, there you go. Answer.

The way I would see it is. Yeah, we're so conservative, right? Isn't that crazy? We're super conservative. Puritans. Yeah. Actually, Puritans are legit. Yeah, I like the Puritans.

Amen. That's in New England. There's a little thread of Puritanism up in New England, and I always like that. Yeah, I can dig it. At a topless speech, I would totally let my wife go. Totally. Except if there was anyone there that we knew. Interesting.

So like if my brother's friends or if my friend, unless it was her girlfriends, I wouldn't care. But yeah, if it was any of our friends that we knew that were guys, that would bother me, I think. Well, my wife would just be, she'd be wearing a swimsuit. This is no real big discussion, right? Yeah, no, I dig it. Would you wear, you know, how they wear like the more, what, like the trunks that are like speedo-type trunks? That's how, you know. It's a speedo, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Would that be all you or would you stick with this? No, I wear surf shorts. All right, bro, you got a dog. The book says, you got to. Brazil, you know that's called a sungao. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

And Dean Lister, the, I'm good friends with Dean. Sure. He went through a phase of wearing a sungao. Yeah. A lot to train in. I didn't like that at all. Dude's basically wearing a speedo and beating me up. Yeah.

Yeah. And he'd go with no shirt too. Oh, for sure. So, yeah, that's, yeah. Well, some people wear that. Conan used to do that stuff too. Oh, for those times. No, they used to be pretty common for.

It's definitely faded right now. Yeah, for sure. The idea of just wearing the tidy, witty, witty, sungau. Yeah. Wait, grappling? Yeah, for grappling. For sure. Yeah, yeah, fully.

But on the beach, though, you go to Brazil. Yeah, Brazil, that's normal. That's the custom. But not you. Yeah. You're not going to adopt that custom. I'm American, dude. I know, bro, but when you go to these foreign lands,

you know, foreign affairs. You're just saying the book said. I didn't say the book said, you know, and you're just going to disobey that. All right, bro, whatever you like. Bray the man. Yeah, I'm going to stick to the tradition. All right. That's what we do over here.

Yes, sir. You done? Yes, sir. Trying to frame me up. Rumor. Rumor is the most primitive way of spreading stories by passing on from mouth to mouth. It is just as inefficient, inaccurate, and unaccountable as it is primitive. Rumors are repeated by, even by those who do not believe the tales.

That's an interesting statement, and it's very true. This is an interesting statement when you look at it from the, the viewpoint of fake news right now and Russian bots. Rumors are repeated by even those who do not believe the tales. There is a fascination about them. The reason is that they cleverly designed, is that cleverly designed rumors give expression to something deep in the hearts of the victims. The fears, suspicions, forbidden hopes or daydreams,

which they hesitate to voice directly. So if a commanding officer can keep track of the rumors that are going around among his men, he will learn a great deal about their current fears and hopes. He will have a sort of barometer that registers the rises and falls of their morale. That's a good point. People are freaked out. We're going to get attacked. That means everyone's afraid that they're going to get attacked or we're not going to be, we're not going home on time. Okay, everyone's concerned about that. So pay attention to those rumors. A rumor is not always a lie, not always a malicious story. And there are,

Uses of rumor in war. You can use it for disruption. You can use it as a smokescreen. You can use it for discrediting news sources. This is a special technique. We're doing that all the time now. There's different kinds of rumors. There's the pipe dream rumor. I thought pipe dream was a modern turn. There's the pipe dream rumor, which depends on wishful thinking. There's pleasure in believing and repeating what you hope is true. The boogeyman rumor is the opposite of the pipe dream. It expresses fear not a The wedge driving rumor. Perhaps the most dangerous of all is the rumor that attempts to create hostility and distrust between allies or between particular groups within a country. So you have to watch out for that.

What makes rumor work? And I think this is probably the most important part of this section. Rumors thrive on fertile soil. What soil is fertile? Lack of information about important things favor rumor. is encouraged by discontent, frustration, boredom, and idleness. Expectation fosters rumors. Censorship, since it blocks important news, favors rumor.

And from those, you can get to how to control rumor. One, ensure good faith in official communications. If the public loses confidence in the reliability of the communications of the armed forces and of the press and radio, then rumors begin to spread fast. So you've got to tell the truth. Two, develop faith in leaders. People can stand censorship and lack of news when they feel they are sure that they are not being told falsehoods and that what is being held back is being held back for good reason.

That applies to all leaders from the president to the humblest schoolteacher, from the general to the corporal. Three, present as many facts as possible. Let the press and radio give as full. and circumstantial news as they can without giving too much aid to the enemy. Let the armed forces do the same. Men want facts. When they can't get facts, they take rumors.

This is something that all the time in Eschonfront will go into a company and they're having problems with the rumors. And the reason that they're having problems with rumors is because the leadership is not explaining what is happening. So there's, for whatever reason, they decide they're going to close down a location. You know, maybe it's because the rent was too high

and they're going to look for a different space. Maybe it's because the market had dropped down there so much that it was losing money. But what's the rumor? If you don't tell people that, the rumor is, we're going out of business. So they already shut down Pleasanton or whatever. We're going down.

Find a new job. So when you don't explain to people what's going on, I just had a guy leader who had to get rid of somebody. and then it turned into a big email craziness where the guy that got fired sent his closing email to everyone I'm gonna miss you guys I'm sorry that it didn't work out

I hope this doesn't bode bad for everyone else like one of those right mass email so and the guy's going what you know what do you think I should do I mean this I I shouldn't have to like respond and I said you don't have to respond. But if you don't respond, these people are going to create,

they're going to run with everything he said. So craft an email and say, hey, everyone, sorry to see Billy go. Billy, we wish you luck. Or maybe you don't include Billy on the email. In fact, I probably wouldn't. But sorry to see Billy go. Here's what happened.

Here's what unfolded. Here was our financial situation. We were actually losing money in his division. Not for one month, not for three months, but for 14 straight months. I had asked him repeatedly to conduct or to make these changes, and he hadn't made any of the changes. And although I like Billy as a person, I couldn't sacrifice everyone at this company for one person. What we need is to be profitable. And with Billy in charge of that division, we're losing money.

and as the leader, I can't allow my loyalty to one person to trump my loyalty to everyone here. Therefore, I had to let him go. Now we've gotten that rumor under control. Next, keep men and women busy. Was it what's funny is that leader was telling me, I never had to do this before.

Tell everyone in an email what's going on. Well, you never had an email, right? Email is relatively new, you know? And so it's not like somebody who's sending out her in mass email throwing darts and spears at everyone from their email. Four, keep men and women busy. Prevent idleness and monotony. Empty minds are easily filled with untruths and worries. Idle hands make busy tongues. Fight rumor mongering. Campaign against rumor. Expose it as enemy propaganda, discredit specific rumors as inaccurate and false caricature rumor mongers. and this section is called psychological warfare interestingly enough death can be inflicted upon the bodies of an enemy destruction upon property but defeat is a conquest of the mind legit in total war economic military

and psychological action are all used to bring about submission in the enemy economic action deprives the enemy of vital materials military action destroys his armies by killing capturing scattering the soldiers smashing or capturing the guns, tanks, planes, trucks, and supplies. But it is successful psychological action that in the end deprives the enemy of his will to resist and can spoil the individual soldier as a fighting machine by removing the one thing that makes him fight. The hope of success. The soldier without hope is like a tank without gas. When you come right down to it, all warfare, military and economic,

two is psychological warfare since willingness to surrender is a state of mind all these different means are used to bring about a change of mind to convert determination to resist into willingness to accept defeat the chief tool of psychological warfare the one that is most peculiar particularly psychological is propaganda since propaganda tries to change opinion the people who plan propaganda have to know all about the opinions of those they are trying to change. You can't be intelligent about changing anything unless you know what it is you're trying to change. Good point. And then it talks about how you figure out what people's opinions are.

You have to gather that information and how to poll for that information. Then it talks about a little bit about propaganda. The truth is the best propaganda. Propaganda does not have to be dishonest or lying. Hitler said that a lie will be believed if it is big enough and it may be at first but the big lies don't stand up eventually the truth catches them and unmasks them the goal of propaganda is always a change in the state of mind good propaganda always starts from a fact there is a formula for victory in psychological warfare one the enemy must be weary he must be sick and tired and discouraged Two, the second step in psychological warfare is to turn disillusionment into despair to convince

the weary enemy that victory is impossible. The third step is to promise something better. Show him a way out. The cornered beast fights to the death unless he sees a way of escape. Four, after the creation of despair, after the promise of something better, there is left still one further step for psychological warfare. the enemy must be led to fix the blame on his own leaders. The soldier who surrenders when he could have fought on must have some excuse,

and he will find it if his discipline is broken down by his conviction that his own leaders are responsible for his unnecessary predicament. That last step may come of itself, but propaganda can help it. So those are some really important steps. and if you think about them, if you think about them from a leadership perspective, they're very, very powerful. If you think about them from a business perspective,

they are very, very powerful. And when you know the offense, you also have to understand the defense against psychological warfare. Number one, don't trust the enemy. Remember that broadcasts and leaflets don't necessarily come from the sources from which they claim to come from.

And by the way, that also applies to emails, articles, tweets, Social media posts, Russian bots. Be critical. Even though a story starts off with what you know to be true, don't trust the interpretation that is tacked onto the truth. And so don't accept first interpretation you hear about the reason of battle is won or lost or the reason there isn't any more coffee.

Wait. The first story is the best propaganda because it has no other story to overcome, but it is not necessarily the best for you to believe. But in general, don't trust the enemy. Don't trust the enemy. If he turns friendly, fear him or better understand that he's up to no good. If you are captured, tell him just your name, rank, and serial number, and nothing else. Just because he seems friendly and well-meaning, don't spill things you think are unimportant.

And it wraps up with this. Trust only your own leaders there for you. trust them and be wise. And that's kind of an interesting way to finish up that book is that statement, trust them, but be wise. Trust your leaders, but at the same time be wise. And you've got to pay attention to that because it's a little counter to trust, right? It's saying trust, but be wise.

And I actually agree with that. Question everything. Be wise. Question everything. Question your leaders. Don't follow people blindly. You can put your trust in them, sure, but at the same time, you have to be wise. Be wise to try and understand their decisions.

Be wise enough to disobey them. Should they choose to lead in a manner that is detrimental to the mission, to the strategic objectives, and to common sense? You've got to be wise. not just about your leaders but about everyone seek to understand seek to understand people which you do by watching them and by observing them and by listening them and you know one thing that we do people do is we spend a lot of time on output we are sending all the time we are talking all the time we are putting information out all the time learn to be on receive mode a little bit more, learn to listen a little bit more, learn to capture and

absorb and utilize what other people reveal. And when you do that, you'll garner a better understanding of them, of yourself, of your team, of your enemy, the nature of the battle itself and the nature of humans themselves. So listen and learn and understand so that you can Become wise because if you become wise Then you can win. Raps up this incredible book Psychology for the Fighting Man What You Should Know About Yourself and Others.

So, Echo, I know you've got some, Hopefully, some information to tell us how to become a little bit wiser Yeah. In our movement down the path, and our movement towards winning in all aspects of life in this total war that we are fighting on a daily basis in all directions?

Yes, sir, I do. What do you got? We got, okay, Jiu-Jitsu is one of the many ways. And now, what kind of ghee are we going to get when we do Jiu-Jitsu? Origin ghee. That's the answer. People have not been asking me that recently.

That's good. Well, hopefully it's good. Hopefully that signifies that they already, No. They know. Yeah. Hopefully it doesn't signify that people are slowing down starting jiu jitsu. Actually, which, you know what?

I know from different input that I'm receiving mode, because I'm kind of on receiving more right now. Good. That people are starting to jiu jih Tzu Jitsu still. Just finished my first jiu-s-s-o class got rolled out. Oh, yeah, yeah. Just finished my jih-su-class. I'm tired. Just finished my first stripe on that white belt.

Oh, yeah. So people are getting on the path for sure. Yeah. And staying because I'm hearing about blue belts now. Yes. And we're in that mode. We've been in that mode for, for like maybe a year almost

where people are starting to get blue belts we're starting to see blue belts emerge stripes so we are the yeah we're seeing blue belts we're three years a little over three years deep in the podcast we should have our first hopefully potential jaco podcast black belt

within seven years is my prediction yeah yeah right average 10 years how long did it take maybe it took a few months before people started going, okay, I'm going to start this jiu-jitsu stuff because these guys won't stop talking about it. Yeah, yeah. But I was going at wrestling tournaments. This is, this was awesome going to wrestling tournaments and having kids that are freshmen in high school.

So they're 13, 14 years old. Guess what started him grappling? A little book called Way of the Warrior Kid. Oh, way of the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Way of the Warrior Kid got them on the path. And so they started that when they were 11 years old, two, three years ago, and they read Way of the Warrior kid.

I want to learn how to wrestle. And then the kids come up to me, hey, sir, are you, Uncle Jim? My name's Freddy, and I started wrestling because I got into Jiu-Jitsu. So, thank you. So that's one of the best things that's happened to me in a long time. Why? Because I know that that kid is going to have a legitimately better life

because they know how to do J-Jitsu and wrestle. Their life will be better. So if you're doing jiu-jitsu, you get an origin-gee. Get an origin-gis made in America and designed specifically for Ikeedo, no. For judo, no. For Hop-kito, nope. Designed for one thing, Brazilian jiu-jitsu. That's what it's made for.

Yeah, and not in a generic way. Sown for. By black belt. By, by Jujitsu. Jitsu black belt people made it. That's legit. So also got some other clothes up there. T-shirts,

sweatshirts. We're working on boots. I can't talk about that yet because then people will be on me for the next whatever. As we try and get, we have the machinery in place. We got models being built. I have a pair. I know you don't have a pair because you're not quite,

you know, on the inner, inner circle. Yeah. You look really despondent when I said that. That's okay. Look at that. I broke.

I broke his heart. Anyway. No kiss for you later. Anyway. You get all these things at origin, main.com. Other stuff on there like supplements. Most important supplements. Okay, I'd lift weights, whatever.

And I've always had probably like maybe 15 years, I would say. I've always had like this elbow. Like, I wouldn't call it tendonitis, although I have had tendonitis in my elbow. So it's just an elbow thing. Yeah. And so when I first got on joint warfare and the creole oil, it went away completely, right? Went away completely.

So recently I got like heavy back into living. Like, man, you can go, right? So it sort of starts to come back. But now it's like at this phase where I'll feel like right now, if I try to do like a close grip push up or something like right now in this cold room, I'll feel it. But the amount of sets that I have to do to warm it up are now reduced to one. One, usually it was every single set of war.

It was like three, four sets of warm up. That my first set I could feel it, but I could over it. It was like that. So it's like a, and I'm getting older. I'm not getting younger. And it seems obvious, but given the way my elbow feels, you know, it's not that obvious. You know, but reviews on people for joint warfare are awesome. Yeah.

People are, they get that where something's been bothered than them for so long. And they get on the joint warfare, throw on the krill oil, and you feel good. It's Yeah. That's what makes it, in my opinion, the most important supplement or kind of supplements. Then it allows you to work harder. Yeah,

exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So true. So yeah, joint warfare. Boom, get that one.

Super krill oil. Some added antioxidants in there. And then discipline, which is, it's a combination of two things. It's a little physical energy boost and a mental cognitive increase in capacity to think. So that's discipline,

the drink. discipline go is that but it's in the form of a pill so or wait they call it a capsule capsule yeah it's a capsule i told brian at origin i was like hey man discipline i'm addicted to the drink which i love it thank you um for for helping me get this to the world however if i'm going to go up on stage and talk for two hours, I can't pound two bottles of discipline. You know why? It's a real simple reason. It is what it is. It's a biological reason. Drink two liters of water and you're going to have to go to the bathroom. Yes, sir. I don't want to have to stop. Hey, hold on a minute, a crowd of 700 people. I'm just going to go hit the head real quick. That's not happening. So took

the discipline formula. We made it into a capsule. Now I can just pop three. Three. discipline when I'm going to need when I'm going to need that little edge a little edge you don't as Jason Gardner put it to me the word searching gets reduced to zero like you don't word search anymore in your head you know and you're saying stuff the so is there okay then there's that energy drink one version right the energy drink is coming

is not out yet well the video with J.P yes origin boom but clearly the energy drink is made. It is made, but it's not in production yet. And I'm going to go into why, well, the reason why it's not in production is because of the way we are producing it, which is a way that no one else is doing. Because the bottom line is there's all kinds of, what do you call it energy? There's all kinds of energy drinks out there right now.

They're not good for you. The closest thing you can get to an energy drink that's good for you is actually jockle white tea. That's the closest thing you can get because it tastes good. It's got some caffeine, some antioxidants. we're taking that to the next level with the discipline go ready to drink in a can taste delicious and it's actually good for you yeah this is the difference so that'll be out i'm guessing we're probably not looking for another two months so no reason to get all excited yet i'll let you know when it's all out there in the meantime the discipline powder is a good variant for

now but yeah the discipline going to can it's really it's nailed it yeah I got four samples yeah they were gone I like I mean I'm down I don't drink energy drinks but if there's like one there that like I know is gonna taste good I'm kind of I'm kind of I like those you know so that one was like oh yeah they were gone and that's the thing is it it it tastes good which is awesome it's actually good for you you know there's no different it's just yeah so good to go also got mulk if you want to get on the mulk train yeah for some additional protein. Yeah.

In addition to your rib-eye steaks. Yeah. And here's the thing. In addition to your tomahawk rib-eye steak. Oh, yeah. You're the thing, you need additional protein. If you're working out, you do straight up? Otherwise, your body, what?

Eats itself. You want that to happen else. And I'll tell you what? Even if you don't need additional protein, you know what you need? Dessert. Yeah. So luckily, milk is its own, why, what is moll?

What does this mean? It means really tasty. nectar that is going to make you stronger and you can have it for dessert and we get done having for dessert you won't get done with it and think oh i still want some ice cream no you'll be like oh i'm done with it and i'm done and i feel great we're good okay so i made this here's a new little dish in my little i don't know whatever yeah so i go egg white omelet with like you know i'll take like leftovers you put molking an omelet no no no no negative. So, you know, for example, my wife made pot roast, right? So it's like pot roast. There's little carrots in there. You know, there's potatoes in there. Yes. So I'll take some leftover pot roast and I'll make an egg white omelet with the pot roast. Right? It seems kind of whatever. But whatever the leftovers is for the most part, I'll make an omelet with it. So I made it and it's good. That's like good nutrients right there. That's a solid like post workout, whatever. Oh, yeah. It tastes good too. And then, you know, no sugar. No, you know, it's like legit and taste really good. So I, so. So I.

I pound that. This was not last night the night before. I pound that. I'm like, man, so not only did I get a good, healthy,

delicious little meal that I made. I'm like, you know how you have, so you're kind of in the mood for some dessert. Yeah, no, that's what I'm saying.

And in a way, in a weak mind, in a matter of speaking, in a week, you can be like, hey, I had such a healthy dinner. Yeah.

I can kind of, you know, exercise some freedom on the dessert a little bit. But I mixed up the milk. Double win win, boom, stay on the discipline path. And when you're, when you're kind of full like that, sometimes you eat a giant steak, but you're still, even though you're pretty full, you want to have a little dessert. Yeah.

Get that little one scoop hitter. Yeah. My little one scoop hitter. My most two scoops. Yeah. And lately I will say, I've been mixing less milk and more milk. Okay. Yes.

It's thicker like that. Oh, yeah. And it's so good. Yeah. It's like a little. It's a straight up milkshake. Get that hitter as my brother, Theo, Von. would say.

It's true. Also, Warrior Kid Mok. That's for the kids. You'd think it's for kids until you try that strawberry. They'd be getting some of that too. Yeah, yeah. But that's a good on this, what, strawberry chocolate?

Is it? That's the only two right now, right? Yes, right now. Yeah, yeah. And then the strawberry, that's going to go to the regular mok pretty soon. Yeah, it's coming. We're working on it. Very soon.

Also, Jocco has a store. You don't stay on the path. Good. Of course. Stay on the path. But if you want to represent while you're on the path, we've got some shirts. for you if you want. Discipline equals freedom. It's a good one. It gets two versions of that, by the way.

Old one and new one. Old one, new one, you know, yes. And they're both in the game. Good ways to represent. Some hoodies on there. Also, more rash guards. So you want to represent. And people have been representing tournaments, competitions,

you know, with get after it, you know, on the rash guard. These are all, yeah. So really good ones. When you see people straight representing in the competition. Oh, yeah. Big time. A lot of cool. Again, hats, flex-fit hats.

You know, I think we might discontinue the trucker hats, but, you know, we're just, see what I did. Look at that. Look at that. All right. We have trucker's hats. You got zero credit for selling that. That was so bad. Well, we have both truckers hat and flex-fit hat.

Also, hoodies. Oh, wait, I already said hoodies. Anyway, go on there at jocco store.com. If you like something, get something. Represent. Man in the wild. Support. Porch.

It's true. Also. Also. Jocka white tea. Okay. In a can, yes. Okay. A little bit of caffeine in there.

Antoxidants. Deadlift 8,000 pounds. That's good. It's good. Like my wife, dead lifts 8,000 pounds. More of a mild taste compared to the energy drink. I know.

You mean energy drink in general? No. Your discipline. Go. Should we not call that an energy drink? I would. Wouldn't. Yeah.

I would call it something else. I would call it discipline. Go. Yeah. I don't know. I think, yeah, well, the jury's still out of now because it's kind of an energy drink. The problem is energy drinks are not good for you. Yeah, you don't want the stigma.

Yeah. Energy drinks are literally bad for you. Yeah. All right. Well, we'll think about that one. Nonetheless, Jocko white tea, not an energy drink. It's actual tea. Certified organic.

Yeah, it is. D. A. A. You know. certified organic. So yeah, you can get that one in a can or what do you call it?

Loose. No, that's not loose leaf. Dry. Just dry. In the bags or whatever. Yeah, that's a good one. Also subscribe to the podcast. If you don't subscribe to the podcast,

then Echo's going to keep telling you, if I don't tell you as quickly as possible, just subscribe to the podcast. So do that. And don't forget about the Warrior Kid podcast because your kids need to be shown the path

and I hate to say this not by you well no in addition to you telling him in addition to you trying to convince him because if you remember when you were a kid you didn't want to listen to your dad you didn't want to listen to your mom you kind of always thought well you maybe just

I might look I might only be 11 years old but I think I know a little bit better than my dad right for sure at the very least he don't understand so Uncle Jake can talk to your kid get him on the path let him know what's up also you get the warrior kids soap at the Irish Oaks Ranch.com young Aiden young Aiden making soap having his own business

buying the material growing the material get some of that so that you can stay clean you got YouTube subscribe to the YouTube channel so that you can see echoes legit videos technically you don't have to subscribe well just check it out then but yeah if you want subscribe it's a good one subscribe like and comment Anyway For those that don't know We do have a YouTube channel If you're interested in the video version

If you want to see what Echo Charles looks like Yeah If you want to comment that Echo looks jacked Or is jacked or is yoked Sure Then you can do that there Don't forget about psychological warfare It's an album

To help you get through moments of weakness By hearing pragmatic information About why you should stay on the path That is at iTunes, Google Play MP3 platforms It's true Also, your home gym when you're expanding, because we're always expanding. I know I'm expanding.

Get your stuff. Go to Onet. So onet.com slash jaco. Good spot. Good equipment of all kinds for gym. Also information on there. So yeah, when you get into kettlebells, because you got to do kettlebells. Cettlebells are good.

Yes. So you want some info on there. Boom. That's where you can get a lot of good stuff on there. Go to on it.com slash jaco. I wrote a bunch of books. If you want to get the books, go to joccopodcast.com and then click on the various books. Mikey and the Dragon is a book that I wrote.

It's for little kids, but everyone gets something out of it. And it's a cool story that rhymes. And it's delivered very eloquently if, I don't know if eloquent the word eloquent is even compatible with you as a full concept or whatever, but I will all use it very eloquent. Check. So, Mikey and the Dragons for kids, also for kids, weigh the warrior kid and way the warrior kid too, which is called Mark's Mission, and also wave the warrior kid three, which is called Where There's a Will. And that book is coming out in the spring. Get your kid these books because they will point them in the right direction on so many things, I wish I had these books when I was a kid so badly.

And I hope that the kids, you know, read these books and get themselves on the path. And if an adult you know needs to get on the path, get them the discipline equals freedom field manual, which tells people how to get after it. Everybody needs to know how to get after it. In my opinion, it's a good little daily read. It's not a normal book. It's different. Yes. Very different.

So check that one out. And then, of course, there is extreme ownership, the first book that I wrote with my brother Laif Babin. And also, we just released last year, Dichotomy of Leadership. And I'm starting to think, there's people starting to comment that Dichotomy of Leadership

is now starting to emerge from the shadow of his older brother. And we're starting to think that Dikotomy of Leadership is going to be a little bit more yoked. A little bit more jacked and may usurp the older brother. May end up being the one that people really dial into. So check them out.

Also speaking of books, if you want this book, psychology for the fighting man or any of the books that Jocko covers, got them on a page on jocco podcast.com on the top books from episodes. That's what it says on top menu. Books from episodes. Boom, I got them by episode. Boom. Available.

right there get them if you want to know my reading my reading list my recommended reading list that's my recommended reading list yes that's it it's jocco podcast.com go to the little tab that says books from the episodes sure yeah and then you can get them so that's that that's a bunch of books books that I've written other books that you can be educated by books that have educated me excellent front leadership consultancy we solve problems through leadership that's what we do me Laifab and JPM didn't know Dave Burke, Flynn, Cochran, Mike Zurelli, Mike Baima, and we are at Eschalonfront.com.

Also, we have the muster coming up. 2019, May 23 and 24 in Chicago, September 19th and 20 in Denver, December 4th and 5th in Sydney. Go to Extreme Ownership.com to register every event that we have done has sold out. These are absolutely going to sell out to. And I thought, I just talked to our ops director, Jamie. And she's like, yeah, we're ahead on sales.

And I was like, cool, I'm glad we got so many more seats. And she's like, what? And I go, well, don't we have, didn't we have, you know, 1,200 seats or something? She's like, no, the biggest we could get. It's basically the same size of San Francisco. So it's $750 or something like that. So it's going to sell out very quickly. So if you want to come, please just go and get on it.

If online, online interactive training, leadership training. We did this because echelon front is not big enough and cannot grow quickly enough to train everyone that requests training. So what we did to scale what we do is put it what we do into an online platform, interactive, re-engaging. It's what we do with companies and now we can do it through the computer screen. So EF online, go and check that out. And finally, EF Overwatch is where we take proven leaders from the battlefield from special operations and combat aviation and we embed them into companies where they can then help that company lead and win.

That's at eFoverwatch.com. If you're one of those veterans looking for a follow-on career or you're one of those companies that needs people that understand the mindset that we talk about in the books and on this podcast, go to eFoverwatch.com. And thank you for listening. And if you haven't had enough of us in three hours, straight and you want to communicate with us some more that's fine we are available on

the interwebs on Twitter on Instagram and on FASA boge ball Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at Jocka Willink and of course thanks to all our military personnel for standing watch around the world you protect our freedom and we are indebted to you we are also indebted to our police and law enforcement firefighters paramedics and EMTs, correctional officers, border patrol, all first responders, you keep us safe. And we thank you for your service and sacrifice as well. And to everyone out there listening, remember how many lessons this book gives about the way we

think, about the way we act, about the way we follow, and about the way we lead. And remember that a good leader doesn't handle his men. A good leader handles his men. Some of the best advice for leadership and life I have heard in a long time. So follow it. Handle yourself. Keep yourself in check. Keep yourself on the path. Lead yourself so that you become a person that others will follow and they will follow you on the path the path of discipline, the path of righteousness and the path that leads to peace. So until next time, This is Echo and Jocko.

Out.