Jocko Podcast - 169: The Slippery Slope, Half-Truths, and Getting Back on The Path, with Jody Mitic.

Episode Date: March 20, 2019

0:00:00 – Opening 0:01:51 – Jody Mitic: Slippery slope, half-truths, but back On The Path 1:33:22 – Final Thoughts 1:39:08 – Support: How To Stay On The Path 2:24:04 – Closing Gratitude.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 169 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. And tonight we have a return guest by the name of Jody Minnick. So before listening to this podcast, if you have not listened to podcast 24, 25, and 111, then go back and listen to those podcasts first so that you can hear about Jody's life. growing up, joining the Canadian Army, his trials and tribulations in the Canadian Army, his successes and his failures, how he eventually became a sniper, served overseas, eventually in Afghanistan,

where he was wounded, badly, lost both of his legs, but drove on, became a successful politician in the city of Ottawa and was carrying on with his life, but things were not as pretty on the inside as they might have appeared on the outside. And when Jody came back on for podcast 111, I had a suspicion that things might not be going that great. There seemed to be something lurking just beneath the surface and for whatever reason. and there is no good reason that I can give. I didn't say anything. And I actually talked to a couple of my buddies who thought the same thing,

who said, man, Jody didn't quite sound right on that. And it was the same thing that I thought. It was the same thing that I could sense in my gut. And my gut was right. There was more going on behind the scenes. and Jody is back today to explain where he's been what happened, how he slipped off the path, and how he has gotten back on it. So Jody.

Jago. Welcome back. Thank you, brother. And I guess I mean that in more ways than one. Yeah, man. So talk to me, bro. Getting wounded sucked. and and you know you when when was I here last?

Probably about a year ago. January, 2018, I think. Kelly and I rolled through Kelly. I wasn't there, but I don't know if anybody can see her here, but Kelly is my fiancee and my best friend. She's present.

And she's present. If you're not watching on YouTube. Yeah, and so is our dog, Athena. But anyway, yeah, man, I spent 2007 to 2000. 17 pretending I had prosthetic feet that did I get pretty didn't matter I guess that I'd had my feet blown off and Kelly saw what had like at some point After I was elected

What was the position you were like to city council? City councillors so I think I don't know you called them aldermen down here maybe Yeah something like and because I had just come off the amazing race Canada And I was second place on that so I was popular in Canada And so that helped me win the election, but also raised my profile in Canada. And so they made me the sports commissioner for the city. And I was the veterans liaison and things like that. And my personal relationship wasn't going that well.

And, you know, things like that. So things in the background, like you said, of life. You know, everyone says, oh, you look like the perfect family. But, you know, like it's, what else are you going to put on Facebook? Right. I mean, that's what it's for. and, you know, we were just going in different directions, and that's fine. So I actually, we actually split up and moved out in fall of 16.

And I found the politics job, frankly, as eager and as I was to serve. Because politics, despite what most people think, is service to your country. Most politicians could probably make twice as much money doing other things. and just like when my book came out on flinching, I had that deal in place before I started campaigning. And I was like, well, well, and also the amazing race, right? So I was like, one of these things will work out. Turned out, I got, you know, what do you call it in craps where you throw and you get,

the dice are good, seven? I got seven with every roll. So the show worked and then the book worked and then the election I wanted. So I had all these things to juggle, you know, and when I got elected and I was like happy about it because I was like medically retiring that in 2014. I medically retired and didn't want to, of course, like all soldiers, right? We want to carry on. I wanted to train more snipers and more troops. But anyway, I'm in service to my country.

Awesome. And, you know, people tell you something like, you know, going out for the seals. It's not what you see on TV. and it's this and that. And you go, yeah, okay. And of course you know that. But until you're there, there's really no way. No one can prepare you for it, right?

You have to experience. Yeah, like sniper school, you have to go. Like there's no way to prepare unless you do it. So politics is the same. And I'm a straight guy. And, you know, we are honorable men for the most part. And we do our best to stick to our word. And politics, I'm not saying that it's not that,

but there's a whole lot of pretending. And by pretending, I mean, you have to say one thing and mean another. And, you know, it's not necessarily lying, but it's not necessarily the truth. And the political brinkmanship that is with that job means always holding your cards very tight. And, you know, and I know, I'm a combat guy. You know, I'm action. I'm about getting things done. And although that worked in a lot of ways for politics and in a lot of other ways, it wasn't meshing.

So I had no, I had a couple of colleagues. on council that I liked and I hung out with, but for the most part, I didn't have any friends. Does that make sense? Yeah, definitely. And my soldier brothers and sisters, they were around, but now I'm this guy who's a politician and a best-selling author, and I was on Amazing Race. So whenever I hung out, it was like, hey, let's talk about what you're doing, me. And I'm like, can we just talk about the last UFC?

Or, hey, what's going on at the unit? Or what's the latest equipment acquired that's cool? Um, people are inviting me places. I'm the guest of honor here and this. And I'm, I'm like, I'm missing just being Jody. Um,

you know, and, and it got to a point where I was, uh, and then on top of it, my legs were not cooperating. Like, they just didn't want to take the beating of everyday life anymore.

And, uh, and so I started drinking again. And, and it was drinking to mask the pain mostly, but also. So what was that? look like when you first of all how how long had you stopped drinking for or did you

completely stop i never stopped drinking but i was because i got addicted to the opioids pardon me because i got addicted to my oxy cotton i didn't want to take pain meds so at the end of a day long day so i'd show up at the office usually between six and eight um you know if depending on what was going on of what committees i was sitting on or of council what meetings and and then politics is all about being places to shake hands as well and that's i love that part meeting people talking to people it's awesome i have no you know uh me and the mayor go along and i you know i get along with the other two levels of government and it was fun and and you go places and you represent veterans and that's the important thing for me and you know the whole point to get into politics is to be a better

representative for my brothers and sisters that that are now veterans yeah because i got to throw this out there where you talked about how when you're a politician you're serving your country. And unfortunately, there's a lot of politicians that, when they're politicians, they're serving themselves. And I'm sure you must have seen that. And I know that's what makes people get that stereotypical negative attitude towards politicians because oftentimes politicians are just looking out for their best interests. And whether that means they're doing things inside their district because they just want to get something for themselves, like more money. But, but often Sometimes they're just doing what they need to do to get reelected, which is still self-serving.

Well, that's the funny thing with politics is if you're self-serving, it's a catch-22, right? And you just pointed it out, right? Like, if I get re-elected, I can still continue to do this for my community, but I have to get re-elected. So I do this to get re-elected, and then I can do this for my community. It's kind of like that. You got to play the game. Yeah, it's your favorite word, the dichotomy of politics. So quite often.

Often, though, I found myself, like there was one thing where my staff, and it was, and it's, you know, the stupidest things I can get you at, especially at city level. The hardest level of politics and I, in Canada, anyway, I don't know about here, but is the city level, the municipal level, because you are, you are plugged into 90% of most people's daily life, flushing water, are toilets flushing, water running, 911 working, the dog park, you know, being cleaned up, the grass. you know, snow plowed, if you're in Canada. Here, I guess, I don't know, what do you guys have? Storm drains that maybe get plugged now and then. Potholes. Potholes is a huge issue in Ottawa, actually. So, you know, it's, you're always on. So you go around, you meet people.

And so, you know, I love that part, but my legs started to just go. And so I didn't want to take the pills. And what causes that? Is it just the friction beat down on your legs all day long every day? Well, it's like, you know, you're, you're, you're, elbows are designed for you know certain amount of weight bearing right and the skin there and can handle it but now try weight bearing on your forearm you know unless you really work at it you know and even then the skin there will never take weight

like your elbows will and that's what happens with with prosthetics and with amputations and and so I was also wearing my legs in a what's called a suction with a suction system and so what that is is the the liner around my that I put over my leg before I put them into the socket has like a gasket and it pushes the air out and it's a one-way valve and so then it's like and so it's a vacuum right and so that vacuum was constantly pulling on the leg and for most people have no issue but for whatever reason and I looked around and I realized that most double below knee amputees use a sleeve so now I use a sleeve but at the time

because every layer is that much more dexterity loss in the movement of your knee. God. Right? And I'm like, I was telling Echo before the show, like, I've done things with prosthetics that most of the guys that make them are like, I've never seen anybody break it this way. Like, or I've never seen this type of damage or like, you did what? Like, you're not supposed to do these things as a double amputee.

And so I just wanted the most mobility possible. But I was actually losing mobility because of the pain that I was putting myself through. So my skin just couldn't handle that constant suction. And so I was drinking You know I tough it out grit my teeth And at the end of the day we go to the pub next to City Hall I'll have a few drinks talk some politics And usually I'm the last one there

And and then like you know Did it escalate to that Where you're like oh yeah we're gonna have a couple drinks And then it's like oh yeah a couple drinks And most people are gone I'm still fine And then eventually you look around and you're like Oh I'm the last person here

And oh it's been three weeks So I've been the last person here It was like three months, yeah, it was six months. And then, like, and I was known now, you know, and then in city count, like the inside politics of city hall was Jody, you know, if you want a party called Jody. You know, or for where's Jody at, that's where the fun is. And, you know, and I'm not saying like it was like crazy things that you see on House of Cards or anything like that. But if there was an event, I was there, you know. And, you know, and again, like for a bit of it was avoiding going home and dealing with that situation properly.

and then the more pain I was in, and then the more pain I'm in, the more I'm drinking, and then the more I'm drinking, and then you're just putting yourself through more damage, right? Like you're out later, but because you're not feeling it, you're out later, then you're causing more damage, right? So I move out fall of 16, and then in spring of 17, my legs are just, they're done.

They're just like, I came back, I did this thing in Canada called Canada Reeds, and it's a national thing where, like, You read a book and then you try to get it to win the contest. And it's a week in Toronto. And I did that and I gritted my way through it. And then I got home and I was at my old house with my ex and my kids. And I took my legs off after because I just,

I went there straight from the flight because I want to see the girls. And I took my legs off. And like she would like my ex, she was there the night I was wounded. And she said that she'd never heard me in the 10 years. She's known me make those types of paint sounds for. pain and because I took my legs off and it was it was just like torture like because while you have the pressure on and and you're using them like it kind of you know then you spray in an ankle maybe

you know when you go around on it numbs it for yeah and that but at the end of the day when you get off take the weight off that's when it really hurts um that's basically what happened and she was like wow I've never heard you make those noises you must be in real pain so after that I just couldn't wear my legs anymore and that's like I mean I saw you almost a year later I was still in my wheelchair yeah how much of that is I know you were going hard working hard how much of that is because you're spending an extra three four hours a day standing around at the bar drinking how much of that is because the damage that alcohol is due into your system yeah yeah how much of it is self-imposed a good 50% I'd say yeah yeah I mean just getting out of bed and putting the legs on hurt and

And then, you know, it's like, again, when you, I always go to the ankle because I used to sprain them a lot when I had them. And that sucks as an infantry guy, but I learned how to tape them and I did some exercises. But, you know, like, once getting into your boot, once you're in there, though, and you're usually good to go then, right? So that's what I was doing every single morning for like a year. And then, like, and then, you know, I'm just going to say it now. I started abusing cocaine.

and then to go because, you know, when you have a few drinks, you start to wobble. And unfortunately, I picked up the habit after my first rotation in Afghanistan. It was kind of like seeking that thrill again. I don't know. I'm sure you've had a lot of troops tell you this type of thing. But, and it goes out of your system in a couple days. Whereas weed is there for months at a time, you know. And I don't know.

I hadn't touched anything since, like, high school when my buddy's hot mom sold hash. And me and my other buddy would hang out and buy it. I'd buy it. I only spoke to like three times. But anyway, then you're out even longer. And you're still wearing your legs even longer. And, you know, and any. What was the, what was the, how did you just, that's a, you kind of just said, oh, yeah, I was drinking and then I was doing some cocaine.

Yeah. For me, that's a big step. Like, I mean, we need to, because here's the thing. I want people to understand what opened that door up. What made you say to yourself? you know what? I'm a politician or I'm a wounded vet. I can do kind of whatever I want.

Well, that was part of it. Yeah. I, because I had so much success and I was so much, you know, it was my name on the, on the door. You know, and at first, like, I went in with full intentions of doing the honorable thing and this and being, and being a stand-up guy. And I think I was for a lot of part, but where I started going down is when it was the booze and the Coke started to fill in the gaps where I should have been at home or in the gym or things. Like I was seeking immediate reward, you know. Like I would like say a power through a week of pain and like getting up early and going because I was, you know, right up until I moved out of the house. Like I was training for a bodybuilding show.

I was looking good. I was feeling good. I was going here. I was going there. I kind of started feeling arrogant, you know. Like I'm Jody Middick and I work my ass off and I'm going to party my ass off this weekend because I can't. And then it went from the weekend to, okay, it's Thursday. You know, and we got no meetings tomorrow at City Hall.

So I'm going to sleep in tomorrow because tonight I'm going. And there's always events. There's always events where you can go and eat and drink and meet people and look cool. And I was the guy who did amazing race, wrote a book, or got wounded in Afghanistan, Dan, powered his way back, that did that got elected, you know, like I was always on display,

I felt, you know. So when I was allowed to be myself, I kind of just let loose. You know, I'd like light the fuse on the rocket. Was anyone advising you? Was anyone pulling you aside going, hey, bro,

you got to tighten this up? No, because I was the man in my world. I was in charge. Like, like my assistant, he tried his best. But, you know, it's not something.

Something like, like even, even Kel, like she was around for a little bit. Like, it's not something you just walk up and go, hey, Jocco, you do a fucking, sorry. Hey, Jago, are you doing Coke? You know, unless you have that relationship with someone, you can't just open that door, right? Like, it seems like, are you, are you jacking needles up your arm? Like, are you doing heroin? Like, you know what I mean? Like, you can't just.

So, and like I said, I was the man in my life. My whole world was like, I was so in charge. Yeah. I kind of drank my own Kool-Aid for a while. You know, I talk about ego obviously all the time. And one of the things I say when I talk about ego is when you start believing your own hype, right? Oh, bro, it's the worst. And if you put yourself in a position where no one even has the balls to come up to you and say, hey, I think you could do this a little bit differently.

And even if they do or they try and hint at it, you kind of steamroll them because you're the man. and this is what that situation is where you aren't looking at yourself thinking, okay, what am I really doing right now? How is this working out? Well, in my view, for a long time, it had all worked out fine. Yeah.

Which all that does is solidify your beliefs. Like you're on the show, you come in second, but you came in second with no legs. That's pretty much like first place, right? I sprinted past a sprinter. Like that girl, Selena, she was a sprinter in high school,

And I sprinted past her, you know. And I'm getting older. And, you know, my kid, you know, I'm just, I was, what, yeah, it just, but it started being, like, it was a Saturday night and then it was a weekend thing. And then it was like a four-day weekend. And then next thing I knew, I was out because, you know, I didn't need to go home. And I saw the kids on the weekends and stuff. So I just, I was able to manipulate my, and I'm the boss on my own schedule even.

You're manipulating everything, including yourself. because you're rationalizing. It's so funny because it's not like you don't see this play out over and over and over again with famous people, right? Famous people that all of a sudden they get a role in a movie or they do something. They get recruited to a professional sports team. And next thing you know, no one can tell them anything. And they're going to go and they're going to go hard. And the other thing that happens is you get surrounded with yes men, people that are.

are just telling you, oh yeah, yeah, you do whatever you want. And in my opinion, a lot of times those yes men, they're actually digging. They're actually impossibly. Well, they're either trying to hook onto you and get what they can out of you and ride your coattails. 100%. Or there's someone that's just looking to make you fall down because they're jealous. 100%. I was surrounded by both.

And I'm not, hey, if you were around me and you're listening to this, I'm not saying that was you. But there are some people that might be listening that know exactly what they were in my life at the time. and looking back on it, it's like, you know, it's like doing a map reckey after the, after the mission or something. And then you go, oh, how did I not see that right there, that object or that obstacle right there? How did I miss that when it's so obvious? So, you know, I spent.

So I think it's important to like just pause for a second, though, because people go into these situations all the time. And what you have to do is you have to be, you have to do a, you have to do a, App Study, like you're saying, you have to do a reconnaissance. You have to look around and say, hey, maybe I don't know exactly where I am. Maybe I need to look for some of these obstacles. Maybe I need to look for some of these obvious pitfalls that I'm going to look back in five years and I'm going to say, oh, that person was a leech or, oh, I was being an idiot.

Or oh, everyone was fueling the fire so they could get more out of me. And when that's the way it is, if you're aware that you're going to get yourself in that situation. The problem is, the problem is you get in that situation, you're supposed to be self-aware, but you can't because you're in that situation. Right? It's a catch-22. And I got to tell you, man, when you're doing the amount of drinking and then the amount of drugs I was doing, it's impossible. Your ability to think objectively and self, like your self-awareness dissolves. And guys like you and me and we're supposed, you know, we're warriors, we're elite. this and that, we're supposed to have it all together.

But it's actually, it's super common in our, in our, in our, uh, in our, uh, in our, uh, community. And it's because we're so used to being on point. I think for me, what happened was I was so used to being on point that it just never occurred to me. I was. And it took her, my kids even, my mom, my dad, my brother, my sister, my assistants, um, my, a couple of good friends, um, to kind of just start to turn the ship.

And when I was here last time, the ship had just barely started to turn. I had just, before we drove down here, I had just quit drinking at New Year's, which was actually pretty easy. And, you know, I just, I hadn't used since we tired of the road trip. And we saw you, like, I think, in the last half of it. So, and I felt like, oh, I don't, obviously I'm not addicted. I can go three weeks or whatever it was. and so 2017 was the down and then 2018 was a bit of a leveling out

and then I had a hard crash right before New Year's this year or yeah I guess whatever a couple months ago and that's when her Kelly and everyone said if you don't go to rehab you're gonna lose it all so I have to back up because I know sorry man you jump like you're like oh then it leveled then crash and all of a sudden we're good because I because for me what I want to see is I want to be able to recognize the morning signs better, right?

Yeah, I know. And I'm trying, I'm, I'm glossing because it's me. Did you get in trouble with your governmental job, with your political position? Yeah. Did people eventually say, because I remember at one point, you missed a meeting. You missed several meetings, yeah. And all of a sudden it turned into, hey, what's this guy's problem? Yeah, so in politics, you know, as much as you're your own boss and, you know, for, for municipal level.

in Canada, in Ontario, because we don't have a party system at that level. Apparently you had your own party system. Oh, bro, I was partying. I was the party. The time when you're earning is when it's budget time. And that's where you're fighting for your community, get the dollars that it deserves, or the programs. Pardon me. Sorry.

The programs that you believe in, you're there to say, I think that this needs more money or this, you know, shift. That's when you really make your money or earn your pay as a politician, so to speak. And I just stopped showing up. You can mess up the whole year. But if you're not there for budget, that's when people start going, hey, man, what's going on? And a really good friend of mine who's one of the bigger... So these are the biggest meetings of the year, the most important things that you have to do, the most important things you have to do to represent the community that elected you, and you're just not showing up.

I just, yeah, just tell him I won't be there today. And my assistance is like, dude, I can't keep covering for you. You know, and a good friend of mine who's also a big political reporter in Canada, called me one day and he said, you need to meet me for lunch or you just, like, you've got to say something or else you're going down. And I was like, what? And so I met him for lunch and I didn't, you know, and I really didn't want to. And he's like, this is what's going to be said if you don't say anything.

And he's like, I'm telling you this as a friend. I've known you since way before you. You were Jody Middick. I've known you for, and I respect you. And you're, you've always been straight and you've stopped. You're not being straight anymore. And you're not being honest.

And you're not answering questions. And he's like, this is the world you're in now, dude. Like, this is how you have to handle it. And so coming down and doing your show last time was kind of part of that come to Jesus moment. Once you did that, did you do like a story with that reporter and say, hey, I've been, you did sort of. of I'm guilty. But I only just told half the story.

Kind of like I was telling you. You took half extreme ownership. I took half of the ownership. Yeah. I admitted to drinking. But I couldn't, I still didn't have it in me to admit to the drugs. And then what was the reaction of the public on that?

Support. Mostly, a lot of them. I mean, the best part about politics is no matter how awesome you think you are, there's always someone, even if you are as awesome as you think you are, someone out there is going to say, no, you're not. And so I had 90% of the public say, you know, we understand and you've been through a lot and this and that.

And we support you. We're here for you and fight on and you're a fighter. And it was love. And I took it in. And it fueled me, honestly, for a long time through 2018. I really was trying. And, you know, when I went back and did a few updates. Did you stop drinking?

Yeah. After that interview? Yeah. I quit drinking. We quit drinking, both of us quit drinking New Year's Eve. So the interview is December, I want to say 18th-ish, 2017. So New Year's Eve, we stopped drinking. And then I spent the rest of the year trying to, the rest of 2018, especially after the, I stopped wearing your shirts.

Oh, dang. Good, right? The good with the face. Those are the shirts I have of yours. I couldn't. Like, in my mind, I didn't deserve it. I couldn't even, like, your books are up on the shelf. I couldn't even look at it.

My book is up on a shelf. I couldn't look at it. 2018, like, yeah, I stopped drinking and I admitted to my problem, but then I had to deal with the emotional and psychological effects of realizing I'm a complete loser in my mind, right? Because as a kid, when you grew up,

what was someone who did drugs, a loser? What was someone that couldn't control themselves? Were you still doing cocaine at this time? Oh, yeah. Well, I had a break. I managed to stop for a bit. but you know my relationship with my with my former partner wasn't was anything but but awesome and you know and it's not saying bad or good about me or her but it's just like that's what happens in a

relationship breaks up i'm under massive scrutiny by the public and the media now in ottawa i'm under i'm under a lot of just a lot of different stressors are coming in you know my um i just I just couldn't get anything together, dude. I managed to stop drinking, and that was about my only success. So does the Coke make you feel like a momentary, like, okay, I've got this? Or does it just cover it up?

It's funny how it makes you think of other things. At first, you just, everything is awesome. But eventually it stops working, and it starts being like it's an opposite. And it's just like they say it is. Eventually, it starts to try to rewire your brain. I remember coming off oxy cotton, and it was harder than getting wounded. And coming off Coke isn't harder than getting wounded, but it's easier to get back on.

Does that make sense? I probably quit three times a week for a while there. Like I'd go two or three days, and I'd be like, oh, I'm doing good today. I didn't get it. And then the slightest, like, push like that. I don't know if they can see that on the camera. I'm pushing a water bottle. See it right?

Oh, there it is. I'm pushing it. The slightest push. one half a degree off my axis on the compass and that was it that was it eight ball and a ball well i didn't get i didn't get i didn't drink uh but it was like well i need it the slightest stressor and i would and i'd go off and i just i stopped having the ability to deal with life's my life's problems you know and on top of it for a lot of that year uh oh no well 20 after i got back from the road trip where i saw you guys last

I did put my legs back on, but just like, like, just every time I felt like I was like, I'd go up a couple rungs in the ladder, I'd fall back a couple. And I was making a progress, but not the kind of progress someone like me is used to. Like, I'm used to like being in control. And if I don't want to do something, I don't do it. And if I want to do something, I do it. And this is one of those ones. And I remember when I admitted to my psychologist,

just 2000, I swooned to 2009-ish. Because like I said, I picked up, I tried cocaine back in 2003, four after my first road to Afghanistan. And, you know, and it was like, oh, okay, that's like, cool, whatever. I didn't really do it, think about it for a long time after. But she said, that one, that one can get you. Just be careful. Oh, dude, she actually said, watch.

out. But this is in 2009 after I'm wounded. She said, well, what do you do to stress to relieve stress? I'm like, well, you know, on the weekends, my girlfriend and I will drink and do a little. And she's like, what? Coke. Ooh, she's like, yeah, you have a real casual way of saying this whole thing. Well, sorry, man. It's my life, but it's, because I admitted to her, because I, like, no matter what, you need someone you can talk to. I have always believed that. You know what, to sometimes people develop personalities that they manage to figure out

how to make things happen, right? So, for instance, some people, they just have a way of talking to you. You ever known someone that can like say something really horrible, but they, but then they say something else they kind of like can recover from it. You don't feel all that bad or you get

so it sounds like maybe you developed a technique of being like just talking about this in such a way that people go, oh you know, if he's talking about this is such a control way and it's not that big of a deal. You know what? It's probably not that big of a deal. Because that's how you're talking about it to me.

That's how I talked about it to myself. Yeah. Because I even had a military doctor and I don't even know if this is a real thing. Tell me I have an anti-addictive personality. Right? Just you're getting the most. And this is what is it called? You're getting the biggest reinforcements for your bad behavior.

Bro. Everything you do, you win and succeed even though you're doing stuff wrong. Imagine if I had done everything sober. Yeah. You know, like, But yeah, anyway, she said that and that echoed. And then, you know what, I didn't even realize the, I don't even know what word to use. Like the fact that I almost lost my career in the 90s because I was with a friend who bought cocaine.

And you can read that in the book. And I think we talked about it. Yeah, we talked about it in the podcast. And I didn't, I'd never done it at that point. And I didn't want to do it, but I didn't want my friend to go alone into some sleazy bar. Anyway, and here I am. Which is just all rationalization, by the way. It's 100% rationalization.

That was a 97. Here I am in 2017 losing everything to cocaine. Losing everything. And I thought OxyContin was my problem, right? Or the booze. And it turns out like I just, I couldn't slay this dragon, you know? So, you know, 2018 was a lot of up and down, up and down, up and down. And yeah, I gloss over it because it's, there's too much.

talk about on a podcast, but you and I would message back every now and then and even the last show. You said, yeah, oh yeah, I went through my texts and, and I saw you said the enemy who flanked me and this and that. 29, 18 was me figuring out how to regroup and reorganize. And I'm still, and I realize too, dude, like anyone who's been wounded in action or hurt in life, recovery is, it takes, it's taken me 12 years and I'm not even recovered from getting blown up yet. You know, right before the show we were talking about, and I think

we probably talked about the first time I was here, because I recognized this a long time ago. I was prepared to die or get that awesome wound I can brag about at the barbecue when I'm old. We sent a lot of bandages and body bags to Afghanistan as a force, and I think you guys did too at first. We didn't even think about all the career-ending injuries that are possible, you know, because we aren't draftees. They aren't the greatest generation. and work professional soldiers. I saw myself retiring at, I don't know what the age is here, but probably 55 grizzled old sergeant or warrant officer,

you know, go and then teach shooting at the Canadian Army sniper school, you know, as a contractor or something. I don't know. I just never saw myself not being a soldier. And you know what? I realized this the other day. The politics was a Band-Aid. the TV shows, the books, the podcast,

these are all part of me finding a way. But I'm back. You know, I'm instructing shooting again, you know, with some of my friends. I'm back to advocating for veterans again, you know, which I can have time for. I'm trying to work. I quit.

I could have run again for politics and won easily, even with all my troubles. I didn't want to. I want to be like Jocko. I want to work for myself. No, dude, listen. Well, I don't know if you remember this, But when you were, I think even the first or definitely the second time you came down and you're telling me about all the stuff that you have to put up with every day, all these people that you're dealing with.

And I just said, bro, why don't you just not do that job again? Because the job satisfaction that you're getting out of it is none. I mean, maybe you're getting a little bit, but basically you're not getting any real job satisfaction. You're having to say things that you don't really feel like saying. You're having to talk to people that you really don't feel like talking to. And meanwhile, you're dealing with the fact that you're not getting to. that you lost your legs in Afghanistan, every freaking day is a, is,

presents challenges anyways. And then you're presenting yourself with challenges that you don't enjoy. Because it's one thing to say, oh, I'm going to go do jiu-jitsu today, and it's a challenge, but it's a challenge I enjoy. Or, oh,

I'm going to go for a run today, but it's a challenge I enjoy. It's another thing to say, I'm going to go do this challenge that I do not like and I don't get anything out of. Yeah. That to me was, was the first time we met.

It was the first time we met and we were at Echo's brothers. company where the podcast was and you your advice rang you know Kelly and I had a long talk before I announced I wouldn't run again and she said the same thing she says remember what Jocko said the squeeze isn't worth the juice or like that's the way she put it but that's what she was because when I got home I told her what we talked about and Kelly and I were just friends back then and stuff but um you know it that was a big my sister my baby sister actually she she said uh you you know, I knew you wouldn't last in politics. Not because, and it wasn't an insult.

She said, you're just, you're not, you're not the right person. Like, your personality isn't, isn't for the political side of things. Yeah. And I want to work for myself. And I love, my podcast is back up. We've done a couple episodes. You know, we're still figuring it out. Kelly and I want to do online coaching now for people.

Like, we've got some hard miles between us. So we want to try and help people avoid some of the things we've gone through. And I'm, and we're starting. And I'm just starting to like wander. I'm becoming like the guy and we, we, I should say, because we're a team. We're like the guy in Kung Fu. We just wander. We're just going to wander.

Wander the earth. And make our own schedule. And but we, you know what? We do more work in a day now. Like it doesn't seem like work. But we get more accomplished in a day or two now than we used to in two weeks because it's for ourselves. And it's just, and it's fun now. But I mean, we're just starting, but I mean, you know, back to the story, I just, I lost myself and I finally have come, I think, close to full circle back to who I was, except, you know, I'm 42, and I accept that I lost my legs, and I accept that my career ended, and I accept that I'm a complete mess up if I let myself be, and I accept that I'm a human being because of it.

because I don't know anyone who doesn't have any flaws, but your extreme ownership and the way I've always, even before I had a term, extreme ownership, ask anyone who knows me, I might not tell you all the things about me or about my life, but I'm not going to bullshit you, and I'm not going to lie about things that don't matter. And I know everything matters.

Something can matter if you're not lying about something because it doesn't matter. But there's some things that aren't under your business. But I even, you know, anyone who knows me knows that I don't bullshit for the most part, you know, because, you know, sometimes I'll mess with it with you, just for fun. But and, and that's just the way I want to live my life. And, and I was bullshitting myself, you, you, her, my kids, the public. All the people that supported me supported me for half truth. This is why I told you.

Your listeners deserve to have Jody Middick come back and say, hey, guys, because a lot of your listeners, bro, like, dude, I don't want to tear up or anything because I'm a man or, you know, whatever. But I get a message minimum, one a week since the last show, minimum. Often it's 4, 5, 10. Hey, man, heard you on Jocko. Thanks for being so truthful about your problems. And it helped me quit drinking.

here it helped me get back into the gym. And I'm like, fuck, I had to come back and just say, hey, guys. Like, you're back in the gym? I haven't even been to the gym since October 2016. You know, I know you can't believe it. But good genetics. Good genetics. But, I mean, I'm just saying, like, I felt like a fraud, dude.

And I hated it. And, like, she would watch me, like, just, I would get a message and I'd be like, you know, I'd, like, throw the phone. And she'd be like, you'd get another message for. from someone who heard you on Jocko, and I'm like, yeah, and my podcast is nowhere to be found. And the book,

I could have made twice as much money on that book if I had been put together enough up here to tour with it more, to go out with it. And I still could have done my job. But I was compromising myself so much on the front end that on the back end, that on the back end, I couldn't keep it up.

You know, so I had to, it was like, do politics well or do the book well. Can't do both well. I stopped being able to multitask. and everything and I just wanted to come on the show and say sorry to you guys and all the listeners and just say and I know a lot of them will say you don't know what I say I owe you and for me treat please you know I owe you guys you guys supported me but you deserve the truth and the truth is I was doing a lot more than drinking and I did 30 days in rehab at the end of the last when did I

go in right after Christmas and I am back on a path of righteousness if you want to call it that I'm trying to atone. I'm trying to rebuild some bridges I burned. And I've had people not return my call and I don't blame them. I was a bit I was I was I was that guy you see in the movies for a good solid three three months there at the end of the year. I went full I don't want to say that word but I went I just I went full full dummy. And I and I realized it and you know so that's anyway why I'm here. Was there a point what what? What? led you to say that you were going to go to rehab? I mean, for the cliche is, you know, what was rock bottom? At what point did you look at yourself and say, damn, I got to get my

shit together now? My girls needed me. Kelly needed me. My mom needed me. My dad. If everyone in your life is telling you there's a problem, there's a problem. And they managed to get through the static that was in my head. And Kelly has had some serious health issues that weren't being helped by my behavior, to say the least. She suffered, do you mind if I tell them? So she had a hysterectomy, right,

in February 2017, which is all part of the story. And she then got sepsis and then almost died. She then got sepsis and then almost died. and at the time our relationship wasn't an open thing and I couldn't be there for her and then my legs stopped working and we couldn't be there for each other even in private and and then so that was 2017 so she's trying to look after me and herself and her and her own relationship changing but anyway so she had she had a cardiac moment from the stress of watching me

destroy myself. So Kelly had a cardiac moment. My daughters were crying, you know, where's daddy, where are you always, and then you're always late to get us or, and then when we're with you, you sleep. And, and my mom, for my mom and my dad to agree on something, which is Jody needs help was another light bulb. And I was still in here somewhere. Like Jody was still there and trying his best and being so self-reflective. And if you ever have to go through anything like this, again, this is something you can't, no one can describe. And everybody's is different.

And you're looking for the rock bottom. I had a couple. And every one of them was in my, and from my point of view, my relationship with the people I love was on thin ice. You know, if my best friend, my soulmate, and my future wife, the person I want to marry, is saying my health cannot sustain this.

So I will have to leave you because for my own health. Never mind you. My health. That's when I was like, okay, well, obviously, obviously I got to, this isn't working. What does it look like day to day when you're doing so much cocaine that it's causing all these issues? Because I actually don't know.

You're good. And I probably never will know, hopefully. Yeah. And if you do, I'll fly down here and we'll figure it out. But the thing is you honestly believe everyone's against you. You honestly believe there's no right move you can make except calling that guy who has the stuff. And even though I got to a point where I knew exactly where doing the Coke would lead. And I didn't care.

I didn't care. I'd waste another day or another. Usually it was three days. We're completely wasted. Because what? What does that look like when you waste three days? You buy a bunch of cocaine. You do a bunch and then, you know, you can only do so much, right?

Before you just feel like you physically just can't do more than you can or you could. And, you know, and because of who I am and the way my mind works, I'm always aware of, okay, there's ODing as possible. There's just your body can physically give out. But if you, like, your body needs sleep, right? We're trained for that. Like, we're trained. And so I didn't have all this information. And also, you know, I knew a guy who is Canadian Special Operations Regiment.

I didn't really know him that well. But in his mind, and he would break. He would say, I know what? I'm going to die in a room full of cocaine and hookers. And he did. He did it to him. But he wanted to. I didn't want to die.

I have no interest in dying. So, you know, I have all these factors. And then it's weird, but at the near the end, I was, oh, sorry, and here's another rock bottom moment. I started buying booze again. Because booze and Coke, like one brings you up and then the other one brings you down. And they kind of, that's why they go together so well. If that's what you're looking for, but don't, kids, okay? So when you do a bunch of Coke, what do you, when you say you waste three days, what do you,

doing? Nothing. It's not like hyper-productive, hey, I'm going to go write another book. Not when you're in the state of mind. I was, at first yeah, a little bit would take you through the weekend and you'd get your email inbox will be empty. It might not make

some of your replies might not make a lot of sense, but you get through them. You might read that book you've been wanting to do and you might binge watch like friends or something. You know, I binge watched a lot of mindless TV on Coke, like friends, how I met your mother,

the show house, scrubs, things that didn't matter. Because I couldn't watch, I love documentaries, but I couldn't watch them because they made me too sad. And then I couldn't watch ones that were about people like success stories because then I'd feel like a failure. So I watched all this meaningless TV. And that's what I would do.

She'd come by and I'd be watching like episode 300 of how I met your mother. I have a pizza box there with one slice, with one bite out of it. And maybe I was drinking like a protein shake or something. You know? Because I had to hide. You got to hydrate, bro. You got to hydrate.

And so I, and she'd show up with a six pack of Gatorade and alpha brain or like another generic neutropic because that was the thing. I was like, oh, as long as I got my neutropics. Yeah. And so that's three days. And because I wasn't wearing my legs,

I literally sat on the couch. Like, look at my posture right now. This is from sitting on the couch for like a year straight. like I got to like work now you know and I and yeah man you just some of your behavior is inexplainable and I'll tell you right now I did some some behavior that I'm just like you know I don't know it's it's I don't know if I wasn't evil or anything but I was not a good guy I was not a good guy I'm lucky to have her next to me I'm lucky to that my kids still talk to me I'm lucky my mom didn't disown me you know um I know at the end of the day

they all came together and I sucked it up, I manned up, I took ownership and I went to rehab and I threw my, I did what I did in my book, you know that line where I say I went back to training like I got sent to as punishment I got sent back to battle school

and I had a choice. I could be the asshole that I was the first time or I could show up in shape with my boots polished and my uniform ironed and be the best candidate soldier that I could be. And I did that.

And I went to rehab and I did that. And within 30 days, they were offering me a job. I got one more question about the bottom. So you basically, this happens for three days. You buy enough cocaine for three days. And then you're watching TV, you're eating pizza, you're sitting around, you're just in a bad place. Then you run out of cocaine.

And then when you are not high anymore, from the cocaine, are you like, okay, I just want to get more cocaine. Is that basically what happens? Usually you go through a period of self-loathing. Okay, I was going to say, is there any point when you, when you sober up and you go, dang, why, why am I doing this? Like, well, yeah, a lot, but also it's a joke in the community, or those that partake because it's called the cocaine blues. because your system has been hijacked and hardwired and been, it's kind of like when you nitrous your engine, right?

And you just nitrous it till it red lines. Eventually, there's nothing left. So that's what happens. As soon as you let the nitrous out, the engine kind of like goes, it has no power for a while until it cools off. And that's basically what you go through. And the only way to remedy it,

unless you power through the three to three, two, three days or the week, depending on how long your binge was, till your serotonin levels come back, and it can take, and at this point I was abusing for a year, right? Like steady. Well, actually, by the end of last year, it was two years, steady.

2017, 2018 are basically a write-off for me. As much as I got certain things done, a lot of it was a write-off, but you go through, as soon as it's done, you're like, I'm never doing this again. Oh, my God, I can't call her, and I'd be like, I'm sorry. I can't believe I did it.

She'd be like, all right, well, like, I've heard that before, you know. At first it was optimism. Okay, good, yeah, we'll work on this together. And then, but then, like I said, you know what? And then, like I said, you know, remember when I said an inch off your azimuth or whatever? Now it's like a millimeter. And you're like, all right. And unfortunately, the guy delivers, you know.

So you don't even have to get, you don't even have to get dressed. He just comes to the door and, like, you know, and then put it on my tab. And, you know, and yeah. And even when, and when that guy says, are you sure, that's another indication. Like, when the guy who makes money off you being an idiot thinks you're an idiot, you got to start thinking about life choices. And, you know, I did it. I went through it, man.

Again, I'm here to tell the truth to you and the listeners because they're watchers, if they're on YouTube, like, I can't hide it. And to pretend I just had some issues. like a lot of people you hear in the media, right? Oh, they're having some issues. Just say what it is, man. It's just as soon as I went on a show in Ottawa, the same guy who came to me and I did the,

and I went on a show and I said it, I said, I did cocaine. I felt like a thousand pounds, man, off my shoulders. And he's like, I did not expect that. I said, I know, man. And that's how much of a bullshit artist I became. And I hate it. I hate it. My ex even said once.

She said, you weren't a sneaky bullshitter before, you know, like, you got to stop this. And, you know, it's, you know, the extreme ownership comes in here because even when I, you know, when I first, back 20 years ago, when I first got sent back to training as punishment for being an idiot, I owned it. And he said, hey, you're the guy who got arrested for Coke. I'd be like, well, I didn't have it, but, but yeah, yeah, that was me. Because what are you going to do? Say, no. like, you know, and I always tried to live that way and I lost myself to this stuff. And I stopped being honest with everyone, especially myself.

And that's saying that you got to look after yourself before you can look after anybody else is a, is 150% true. You know, even, and Kelly even learned some lessons here because she didn't take enough time to recover from her surgery. And it almost killed her again, you know, and because she was worried about at work and her kids and this. You got to worry about yourself. And again, man, I'm on like a redemption tour almost, I feel like. And I love it. I love it. Like we were, where were we?

I figure where we were, but, you know, somebody said something. I went, oh, yeah, I just got a rehab for cocaine. And they went, oh, okay. So coffee, because I think they wanted to get a drink. And I'm like, yeah, I just got to rehab. You know, it's a great conversation starter or ender. So talk to me about rehab. What goes on there?

You know, it's a, it's a whole lot of just being told to think about how you're living your life. I did, usually for cocaine, they want 90 days. I was only willing to commit to 30 because I still had a little bit of like that ego going and stuff. And I did the 30 and I did okay. And like I said, they were offering me a job or like, you know, we were in talks about maybe working there. but you know it's funny how like once you open your mind to possibilities

the way forward is obvious I have no business being in this town called Brockville where the rehab place was but if I wasn't there Kelly and I wouldn't have found this building that one I was sending you which inspired us to remind

us that two years ago when we first moved out of our house or three years ago now, holy crap, almost three years ago now when we first moved out from our old relationships and we're trying to establish her own. My goal before I got elected was I wanted to open a gym and I wanted to build a community of positive people and I wanted to like wake up every morning, have a coffee, like I don't know why, but in my mind I have an image of me in shorts with a long sleeve t-shirt opening up like a garage door and having like people come in with gym bags like hey jody how's it going good morning sir you know like and not sir like hey sir but like because i'm like i'm like the leader or like i'm the i'm the i'm the papa bear of this group that's what we

kelly and i call ourselves mama and papa bear and even in rehab they started calling me papa bear because i'd be like i was almost twice as old as most of the people there most them were like late teens early 20s maybe 30 some of them were 30 but you know even the old older people. Like there was like one woman there in her 60s and she'd be like, hey, Papa Bear, because that's just who we are. Like I, like, you're the same. You're like me, but like, and Kelly's the same. We just, we, we want to look after people. We can't help it, right? You know, and the rehab people would look after yourself. But anyway, Kelly comes and picks me up and where I'm allowed, I'm given a day pass. You know, Echo, they let you go out for the day if you're

good. If you're good boy, Echo, they let you go out on rehab. And so we're driving around. That's when I saw that building. I think I sent you picture too, didn't I? I think so. five, this thing was a wood mill, beautiful, big wooden beams, like a beautiful building. Unfortunately, it would have been more to repair it than it would have been to buy it, but it put our minds on this path to what a great area that is, the fact that we want to go back on this path of building this community. And so we want to build, so we're still doing it. And we, you should, you should, Kelly and I drive a lot because we have our best meetings.

Our business meetings are when we're driving. And so we want to open, it's called HQ, and it's going to be a fitness, wellness center. And it's going to be more of a community than anything. Kind of like if you want to just come chill, you can come chill. I want to have a library. I want to have a podcast studio. I want to have classrooms. And we're going to just like be there to help you live a better life.

And the best way for me to live a good life is to help you live a good life. And I've realized that now. Like even when I was in my military unit, like, even if I wasn't hungry, I'd grab extra food and bring it back to the boys. You know, if I realize like there was something shiny around to be had, I'd like find a way to get my hands on it for the team and stuff, you know. I'm my happiest when I'm looking out for others. And I know, and at the same time, though, you know they're looking out for you. And it feels good to have friends and family and, you know, a tribe around you, right? You know, we're tribal animal.

And I, you know, do you know Tate Fletcher? He was Joe Rogan's buddy. Yeah, for sure. Well, I don't know him personally. Right. So I met Tate in 2013 when I did a piece for Vice at the University of Southern California about how they do virtual reality to treat PTSD. It's on motherboard if you want to Google it.

Go ahead. I mean, I look pretty cool in it. But anyway, so Tate, I was down here and I met Tate. When I was here, I did his podcast. And in this, you know, so this is going back six or seven years. And I've never met Rogan, but I mean, eventually I might. I mean, I know enough people that know him. But anyway, the point is I was driving around with Tate and we're here in California to do a course at Deuce Gym in L.A.,

which Tate introduced me to the owner of. And this guy is just such a cool dude, and he runs such a nice gym in the atmosphere. So we're going to take his seminar. And I said, man, I wish I had what you have here in California. And Tate, this was a life-changing moment, and I had to go through all this to get here. He said, build it. And I said, what? He said, if you want it, build it.

And I said, okay. And it's taken me since 2013 to get back to here and go through all these other things to realize, like, I got to build it. That's why not going into politics again means I can do whatever I want. Like you said, man, like you're right. Like, it's tough. Like, there's moments of great happening. in politics, but unless that's what you want to do, like, it's hard. It's very hard. And guys like us were self-motivated to do things. And waiting around for others to do their thing,

it's just easier to do your own thing, you know, especially, you know, like, what's, I know he was a German, but in World War II, his orders were find an objective and kill it. That was his orders at all times. Like, if you don't hear from me, find something and destroy it. That's the, they, basically the mission statement that Kelly and I have put before. So I was like, we want to build this place, build a community, and live a good life. And I never want to be the guy I was for the last two years. And, but I'm going to say glad, but it's an experience that I've learned a lot from. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does make sense. It does make sense. It's sort of like the thing I told to Sam Harris when he was telling me that it's hypocritical for me because I, I say war is horrible and awful, but I always say it's the best experience of my life. He said you're hypocritical for that? Yeah, and then, well, rightfully so. You can't say something's awesome and then say it's horrible.

And I said, well, it's like this. And I asked him if he had ever known anyone that had had cancer and survived. And he said, yes. And I said, a lot of those people say, I'm glad it happened because they get this different perspective of life and different perspective of the world and different value of life and different value of the world. And so even though you wouldn't wish it on somebody, you're happy that you had to go through it.

And so that sounds like a similar situation. Well, it's, I always tell people, I had a great time at war right up to the last step because it's a horrible thing to do. But it's what I trained. I volunteered to be there. You volunteered to be there. Like I always say, you know, people, because a lot of people say they're sorry for me losing my feet. And I say, you know, if I was a Russian draftee in Afghanistan, yeah, feel sorry for me. But I was exactly where I wanted to be.

You know, and the fact that one of my boys didn't die because I stepped on that, you know, like, if the, like I said, if the guy in front of me had stepped on it, I'd be dead. If the guy in front of him had stepped on it, he'd be dead and I'd be, like, we don't know. I'm glad I was the one that stepped on it. But, yeah, like, I loved doing my job. It was a great, it was an amazing job, you know. And the people that you're around are some of the greatest human beings you're ever going to know on the planet, you know. So that's what I want to rebuild. I want to rebuild this brotherhood and this sisterhood, this community of like-minded individuals

and the saying surround yourself with people that make you better. That's not what happens when you're on cocaine. So at some point you went from this mindset of you could see where the future was. You could see that cocaine is going to ruin your future and you didn't care. And at some point during this, you said to yourself, okay, I see the future with cocaine. It's terrible. and I'm not going to go there. Yeah.

Well, it was life without Kelly. It was life without the kids. It was life without real friends. You know, like, even people that love you to death can't be around you because, you're just not, it's just, it's hard. You know, and I've had a few buddies go down and on, and it mostly booze. Like, booze is the most common one because it's rarely available out there. You can go down to the store and get it for some reason. You know, like, listen, I, I, listen.

get a lot of flack, but I'm a fan of the, and I know safe injection site is like people don't agree with. There's no such thing as safe injection. Okay, I get it. But the point is, I'm forgiving the option of a place that's safer than a dumpster to shoot up with heroin. If it means we might save that life, right? And I'm also, like, we just in Canada federally, we legalize marijuana. If it was up to me, anything people want would be regulated taxed and taxed, right? Because if a bottle of Jack Daniels hurts, hurts echo if he drinks it, or if it hurts us, there's someone who can be held accountable

and we can trace that right down to the barrel that it was brewed in or made, I don't know how whiskey is fermented. Distilled. Distilled, there's the word. Whereas if a guy shoots up behind a dumpster and dies, I don't know who to go after and who to, like, whose fault is it was a bad product or a good product, which is usually what gives them an overdose.

But, you know, like, there's just, the path to, you know, like, A-A is there because we can get booze at every corner, you know. And so we have gambling sites. If you go into a casino, you're actually warned on the door. Like a pack of cigarette says, if you smoke this, it'll be addictive and it could hurt you. I just think we need to start talking more about things. And so for me, like, you know, I don't, like, I don't know, man. I just, I saw that I wouldn't have the good.

things in life because of this one thing that had taken over. And I, my cousin actually, uh, in 2017, in 2017, my cousin who I grew up with killed himself, not with, and I don't mean killed himself as in like committed suicide. He just drugged himself to death. And he was addicted to, if it was addictive, he was addicted to it. And we never, I never figured it out and I had to stop hanging out with them. And that was what was happening to me too. my, you know, we call her, you know, whether you think it's weird or foo-foo or whatever you want to call it, we do, Kelly and I do believe we're soulmates.

Yes, that's weird and foo-foo. Yes. But you can do it. Yeah. Well, thank you, right? And that's the thing. So if you're, if the person who you think you were put on the planet to be with says, I can't be with you the way you are, that's, hey, man, like, you got to take a serious look. And so it sounds like that really was the critical thought in your head.

that the person that you cared the most about at this moment in time is literally going to walk away. She had to. And I saw it. I saw it. I was like, I had to go to rehab to give her a break and to give my kids a break. When you went to rehab, did you say to yourself, I'm going there? Did you go in there with an attitude of polished your boots? Yeah.

No, no. Sorry. If I didn't finish that, sorry, I have ADHD if you can't tell. But I went in there, polished boots, pressed uniform. form. I had my books. I made my bed. It was all like the basics. Get back to the basics. Right. We even talked about this the first time I was on your show. I shaved my head. I started doing some, you know, started working out a little bit, trying to get back into a little bit of shape. I started caring about what I ate again. I started taking my vitamins. I started, you know, and I went in there

and I know exactly what I'm like when I want to portray that tough guy attitude. And that's what I did to keep people away at first because at first you ever been arrested yes were you happy about it no yeah so I kind of went in like I'd been arrested like I was the first time not the second time that is in the book but the first anyway like I said I don't put everything in the book but anyway you're not very happy and you don't need friends so I didn't go in there to make friends so I was I was like a wall for the first week right but that that's Let me concentrate on exactly what I was there to do if that makes sense and so as that as as as I was there to get better and do rehab got I don't want to say easier, but I got better at it because it's you know it's a skill that you are actually taught in rehab is how to be better That's what rehab is they're teaching you how to be better again

So like what what kind of skills are they teaching this? Wake up on time I know this sounds but like you know when you're addicted doesn't sound weird to me I believe so it's like basic training almost make get up make your bed you know come to breakfast on time so if you weren't at breakfast you lost your ability to make a phone call that night and then if you missed any classes during the day you know you'd have privileges you know given or taken as as the day or the week went by now you're you're you're at a place where you pay money to go so you'd think it'd be how do you take privileges from someone but they do they do I was like I'm a grown ass man if I want to make a phone call I will they're like no you won't I'm like god damn it you're right because I

sign that waiver. But I, I, I tried so hard that I got to, like, they were bringing me in, you know, I'm not, anyway, I should probably shouldn't say too much, but like within, you know, I was only there 30 days, but within about, I'd say 15, 20 days, I was someone that was turned to by the other clients and someone that some of the staff would turn to like for backup in a certain situation or, like I said, I went Papa Bear. And, but when I was, I was turned to, I first got there, some of the other clients told me, like, when I first got there, they were like, this guy is a murderer, he's going to kill us all, like, because I was just so focused and I had this look and I, you know, I know, we're, we, we get up in front of troops and try to, you know,

we got to be the toughest looking guy there, some of them, you know, and so I know how to do it, but I did that to for myself more than anything because I went, okay, I'm back in basic training. I have to learn how to be a decent human being and how to look after myself again. Man, and they took you through check, checklist. A lot of my personality flaws stem from childhood. You know, and I found that out. Like what? Like stuff I don't want to talk about, frankly.

And, you know, just things that once you read the literature, it's, oh, that is obvious. So you can, you can, and this is a conversation that we've been having. Sorry, and I didn't mean to be so abrupt. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, it's fine. But what I mean is, I now understand. And that's, for me, understand. Like most guys like us and girls, if I understand the cause, I can deal with the action, right? So, but if you don't understand, then it's just chaos.

But if there's an explanation as to why my mind goes there, which then causes me these actions, ah, now I can go back and deal with the cause of that behavior. Is that a better way of putting it? No, it does make sense. And this is something that I just talked about on another podcast, but. The first time I kind of recognized that there was these patterns and protocols for psychological issues is honestly when Jordan Peterson came on for the first time. And he was, I was explaining how in the Warrior Kid Book, how the kid gets over the fear of the water. And he goes, oh, yeah, that's a, that's a protocol.

It's called exposure therapy. And this is what it done. Psychological. This is how it works. And I just figured that out from just life, right? Yes. And then I realized that the that there's protocols for problems and people have psychological problems. There's a problem and it's just and I was using the term brain mechanic, but somebody on Twitter said something better, which is mind mechanic.

So if I would have been told, hey, oh, the psychologists and a psychologist, they're called a mind mechanic. And they go in there and when there's problems, they know how to fix those problems. I love that. Yeah. And but when you're, well, like me, you're just thinking, oh, that's just a bunch of what did you say earlier, foo, something? thing. Hippie, dippy.

Yeah, it's a bunch of hippy-dippy stuff that you don't really know what's going on. But then you talk to, or in talking to Jordan, I heard him say, oh, and this is a problem

that you would see. And this is how you'd fix that problem. And here's another problem over here. And here's how you'd fix that problem. And the really strange thing is, it all lined up with just my natural instincts when somebody had this kind of problem. I'd be like, okay,

here's what you need to do in that scenario. I would just know that from dealing with a bunch of guys over the past, you know, 30 years that were having issues, be like, hey, man, oh, you got this problem. here's what you need to do. Move, do this, do that.

And, but a psychologist, a mind mechanic can look at it and go, here's what's going on. Here's what this root ties into. And here's how you stop this, this cycle of negativity and how you move it in a positive direction. Yeah. And that's exactly what rehab is. It's let's find the, like,

you're not a bad person for having these thoughts and actions and reactions. Because you, You know, and that's, and then, oh, here's why. Oh, okay, here's where the pattern developed when you were like five or 10 or then this happened. And your buddy that we were talking about before the show. Oh, Jay Redmond. Yeah. Honestly, I'd love to talk to him because it sounds like him and I probably had very similar childhoods.

And then similar careers. You guys definitely had similar careers. The fact that you got sent back to whatever that battle school. And Jay Redmond got sent to Ranger school. you know and then it's it's very you guys definitely had some similar I think I was a little more humble than him from the sounds of it but I don't know but I but I was still oh like I almost got I almost got kicked out of snipers for being arrogant it's it's a close race and I said and it was because I didn't say I said sir to the sergeant major instead of calling him by his first name because he liked to be called by his first name by the snipers because then it showed he was bros with us yeah whatever now see am I showing my arrogance maybe right now yes Yeah. No, but it's... But that's the thing is Jay Redmond, you know, he went through all that.

And his book is phenomenal because he'd love to read it. He just comes right out and explains all these mistakes that he made. And he did a great job redeeming himself and turned into a great frogman. And that's what I wanted... And that's my job. My book on flinching, it wasn't a, let's make Jody look like a hero. It was like, let's be honest and clear about how, you know, you start in one's place and end up in another, but you have to, you know, you have to realize that mistakes happen.

And, you know, by 42 as a kid, I thought I'd have it all together. But, you know, I'm still learning. I'm still, you know, like I call myself a student, a student of the human condition because I feel like I'm always learning. And I will never, you know, no one's ever an expert on anything, I don't think. And if you think you are, it means you've stopped learning, in my opinion. I don't know. I know we're going a little off.

What are the withdrawal? How bad is the withdrawal from? Because I know, you know, I think the only thing that you're not supposed to withdraw on your own is alcohol because you can actually die. If you're an alcohol addict and you stop cold turkey, you can pretty, you can die. If you're deep into it, you can have, I quit OxyContin cold turkey. And when I told my doctor, he said I could have had seizures and stuff and could have died. but I wasn't on that high a dose then either

so it's what about when you quit drinking not that big of a deal yeah the alcohol you gotta drink a lot a lot yeah to be in that situation yeah like these guys who were like drinking the whole bottle of vodka every day oh okay they ever see that movie leaving Las Vegas

with Nick Cage no that guy like he would go grocery shopping every day and his cart was full of booze Like that's, which is actually more common than I thought. Oh, bro. It's crazy. Some guys get after it with the vodka. And the vodka for some reason because they think you can't smell it.

Yeah. But I mean, if you drink enough, you can smell it. Yeah. But the withdrawals were. Is it mostly psychological? Yeah. It's a big time psychological. There's some physical at first.

I went through a period where my body was like detoxing. so like I was getting these weird zits in like weird places and stuff like that and and um is this from the cocaine yeah I think it's from the impurities that they get mixed with right but then as far as detox you're talking about detoxing from cocaine yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah sorry um yeah but I mean it's more just like letting your brain re-level re-level itself so I went in there I stopped taking any Tylenol like I don't take I'm trying to And Kelly and I are working on this. We're trying to get like we're almost,

sugar's almost gone. I don't take any pills or I keep going away from the mic. Where were we, babe? We were in West Virginia doing some training, or not training, we were doing some familiarization at a place that's built for three-letter agencies. And my leg was just on fire because of the day we'd had.

And she gave me two Tylenol and two a leave. And I passed out like, Like that I could I didn't I know that was in the morning. Yeah sorry I fell back to sleep because I woke up with the pain Anyway, that's what I want I remember the first time I took a Tylenol and I was in after I joined the army And we're on exercise maybe a year later and I was in the woods my back was a little sore so the medic gave me two extra strength Tylenol I just never had Tylenol before because I just I you know I was 17 18 and I took it and my body felt like it was on unicorns and sunshine for like three days and that was from two extra strength Tylenol. When you're doing blow and drinking a lot, like you're, that's breakfast, you know, to get over it. And, and I like that if I take one Tylenol

now, my body's okay, you know, because I'm a big guy. So I need, you know, I usually go extra strength. I want to take, I want to be able to take regular strength. Remember that? Remember when you took regular strength, anything? You know, I have a coffee and I feel it. It's not just like a whatever anymore. So that's kind of what I'm on. on a bit of a mission to get back to really basic food and and liquid intake. You know, like the cold brew that I was drinking when we got here, like there's nothing else in it. It's just coffee that had the nitrogen in it, right? But there's no sugar, no, you know, I'll put a little cream in my coffee now.

Instead of extra larges, right, we're trying to, I'm buying mediums and small. So we're trying to just get back down to a baseline of minimum. And it's working okay. But, you know, it's a daily, I talk to my rehab guy at least once a week still. You know, I send him pictures of our travels and stuff. You know, we got the dog. I got the service dog now. It's just like, you know, they're so busy.

Like, she's such a German Shepherd Malinua mix. They're such busy dogs that, like, you just, you don't have time to be hungover or anything. And, like, you quit drinking on your own anyway, right? Like, a long time ago. Well, yeah. So what happened with me is I just retired from the Navy and while I was in the Navy was pretty normal to drink. Yeah, we've died with it. Yeah.

So, but when I retired, I just looked up a month later and I hadn't had anything to drink. Then I looked up three months later and I hadn't had anything to drink. Then I looked up six months later and I was like, well, I have no desire. And I must say, you know, you talked about not having an addictive personality. And I think I truly do not have an addictive personality. I think that other than maybe like something like jujitsu or something like that, which I definitely got pretty fanatic about and I still have a hard time with withdrawals if I don't get to train for a certain amount of time.

What did Dean say you're addicted? Oh yeah. And Dean Lister one time said I was addicted to power. So domination. Yeah. You know, I was. I am joking. I was giving him a hard time about not training and hassling him and telling me, you know,

you're just addicted to that. And he said, you're an addict, too. And I said, what am I addicted to? And he says, you're, you're addicted to power. But hey, if you can do it on the, on the mats, better than becoming like a dictator or something. Yeah. But the point is for me is when I, I never even, like, I would say maybe in my mid-20s, I would get fired up like, hey, like we,

my platoon. It would be the end. It would be a Friday and we just got done with some hard training and we were some random city and it'd be like, oh yeah, we're going to go out and have a good time tonight. And it was more about like, hey, I know we're not going to go out and have a good time tonight than it was like, I really need a beer. Yeah, me too. Yeah. And so as I did that, that was just kind of normal. And there was definitely the problem with that attitude is there are people that have addictive personalities and alcohol has ruined all kinds of guys in the serial teams and all kinds of guys in the military because it's really, it's, It's just a slippery slope to go from, oh, this is just normal to, hey, it's Tuesday night.

I'm at home. I'm alone, and I'm going to drink a 12-pack. That's a pretty slippery slope that people get through. Actually, just having Jason Gardner on, and he was, he quit drinking just like maybe, I don't know, a couple months ago. But, you know, I said, well, how much were you drinking? He goes, you know, I'd come home and I'd crack one open, and then I'd crack one open before dinner and then I have one during dinner and then I have one after dinner and then maybe I'd

have one before I go to bed well there's six beers and he's not a big guy so six beers is like you know he's good and he's even said like oh I would feel it you know not feel it like you know he's still doing everything he has to do but he's not doing it optimally and now he said he's like I feel just amazing that that and that's pretty much how Jason talks so he says I feel amazing now so but he's one of those guys that yeah you know you know you you could go down that slippery slope. And he wasn't far down it, but he would look up every night and call.

You know, because when you wake up, let's face it, you have six beers, you don't feel as good as if you had no beers. And that's something you talked about, Echo.

Yeah, I remember that you were talking about drinking too much vodka or something? Yeah, yeah, fully. Yeah, the next day you feel like the breaks are on. And that's the thing.

Like, you wake up and you feel foggy. And like, you know, like three days are wasted if you do too much of anything, you know, like you could,

who knows, but to put, you know, I knew guys that woke up and drank whiskey with breakfast, you know, but it was so accepted in our world as well. Yeah. That it was, you know, if you showed up for PT and you were hung over, it was a joke. Oh, yeah. Oh, what's up, Jody?

You're feeling last night still? It was a badge of honor. It was a badge of honor. Like, oh, yeah, this guy's drunk. Wow, look at how well this guy can run, even though he's hammered. Look at Middick running, even though he's, like, throwing up on the move. That's soldier right there. Yeah.

There's an old seal master chief at SEAL Team 1 before I got there. old Vietnam guy and when you went in to talk to him he would pour shots of tequila that's how it was going to be like oh it's nine o'clock in the morning cool you want to talk to me roger that we're doing shots yeah old school and that's again there's people that can handle that and there's people that can't and broadly speaking let's face it and this is what i eventually thought to myself broadly speaking it made no it makes no sense whatsoever to me now as i look back i'm like this makes no sense to me this does absolutely nothing positive for me doesn't make me stronger doesn't make me smarter in fact it does the opposite

makes you weaker and makes you dumber but it took me a long time to figure that out and the weird thing for me is when I was a kid growing up I was into hardcore music and like the straight edge scene of people not the X's on your hand I didn't actually have that but uh but I definitely listened to that music and it was

it had an influence on me without a doubt had an influence on me because it was it was it was a rebellion and a counter to the kids that I knew that were getting drunk and acting stupid and smoking pot. And I'm over here going literally thinking, you're weak and I'm strong. That's an arrogant thing to say.

But that's as a 14, 15, 16 year old kid, when you're looking at someone else that's smoking pot and getting drunk and you're thinking, they're weak and I'm strong, that's kind of a positive thing as far as I'm concerned. Yeah. Yeah, I remember getting called weak when I didn't drink in the platoon. Oh, 100%. But I grew up, both sides of the family have their fair share of alcoholics. even as a kid

I was someone who you know even though I'm Canadian Nancy Reagan say no to drugs worked like I said I smoked hash a handful of times because my buddy's mom was hot

and she sold it and you know and then I didn't I didn't touch anything except booze and even then it was like I was like you I could go three months

and not drink and just be like I haven't had a drink for like three months you know I quit cigarettes when we're on deployment because I couldn't run up the hill next to our camp I was like, fuck, if I can't run up the hill, obviously, these things are, you know, it's just something I picked up as a, because I watched lethal weapon too much, right?

Yeah, Mel Gibson. Oh, and then, and then Bruce Willis, Bruce Willis and Mel Gibson, all they did with smoke in their movies. Do people still smoking movies right now, Echo Charles? A couple. Way less, yeah. I was watching that movie Constantine with Keanu Reeves last night. It's one of my favorite movies. I don't know why.

The demons and devil's it. Yeah, I don't know. I just like that one. But he smokes a lot, but that's the character. He dies a lung cancer in that, too. Right. Like, that's part of the plot. He actually has lung cancer.

Yeah, he actually has lung cancer in the movie. But anyway, yeah, I just, I, but I, and I, and the guy who told me about this anti-addictive personality, like in my 20s. So I kind of skated on that. Yeah, yeah, you felt like that was more reinforcement for your personality. I just, but also, like, I quit smoking and drinking, honestly, dude, like it, I said it was a problem because at the time it was, but it was because I was doing all the Coke. Because, and it levels you out.

And I quit drinking New Year's Eve with Kel. Like she was like, I don't want to drink anymore. It helps you not do coke. And I was like, all right, awesome. So we quit drinking. But that the cocaine just wouldn't let go. And again, I'd go through like a week where I wouldn't do it. And then a week where I did it.

And then, you know, but eventually my, like you said, your buddy didn't hit like his bottom wasn't like your bottom. You know what? I was thinking about, your bottom is whatever you wanted to be. And, and so I, I saw the bottom coming. for the whole time, pretty much. 2017, I didn't for a lot of it, but near the end it was clear that there was a problem. Like I still didn't really see the problem

until I was doing those interviews and then right before I saw you. But then 2018, it was trying to level out and figure out which way it was up, which way it was down again, you know? And, you know, don't be afraid to call in reinforcements like we talked about last time. Like, no one is a rock.

an island right like you don't like rambo it isn't real right as as cool as a movie character he is um he has air support he has you know he has a fire team he has a he has a machine gun team on the flank he's got you know he's got uh indirect on standby like no one is a one man army and you know and i i talked about this last time and i talked about it the first time i was on the show and i keep relearning these things but in different contexts and you know i'm i hope i'm done learning these these lessons um you know uh and i want to get back to just live in positive clean um you know i i've i'm repeating myself now but dude like it was rough and i honestly i questioned whether or not like you know like people like you or people uh in canada there's some of my friends like

are they going to accept when i'm this honest but i was prepared for the consequences too because that's i felt like what i deserve with my actions. Does that make sense? Okay. And for the most part, like I said, everyone's been understanding. Like, and it makes it easier for me to talk about, you know, one of the reasons I've talked about with my psychologist, why I didn't get PTSD from my injuries is because I talked about

it so much. So I'm hoping that talking about this openly and if more listeners to the show and, you know, if you go to my show, the Jody Mideck podcast, episode 39, I believe, is full disclosure, where I tried to lay it all out, even more than we have here.

And it feels better every time I tell the story, you know. And it's a lot to get into like an hour or two. It is, really. But, you know, with us, it's almost like an evolution, right? The first show, we did good. But, you know, even back then,

like if things were getting to be a little dicey, with the politics and with the home life and stuff. But, and man, I just, and, you know, I did go through a period where losing my legs became a real problem there. And Kelly's nodding her head because she saw it, you know, like, when I couldn't wear my legs, I couldn't drive my car. I know I drove here last time, but I had with the hand controls. When I first took the legs off, that I didn't have that. I was in an apartment by myself, you know, anyway, I just, you know, Here I am.

Do you, do you? You know, the dog's coming up because you can feel I'm getting a little worked up right now. How hard day-to-day are you thinking to yourself, like what's the temptation level daily where you have your friend that delivers? Right now? Yeah. None. So how hard is it on like a day-to-day basis? what's the temptation like?

At first it was massive. Like I would, you know that show Narcos? I can't. I haven't, you know the show Narcos. It's about Pablo Escobar. Okay.

So they just came out with season two, which is now the Mexican cartels. I haven't watched a single episode. We were watching Pulp Fiction, and I had to turn it off when the, what's her name, did a line of Coke. when John Travolter was picking her up.

Like that is like I could, even now I avoid anything that has drugs in it for the most part. And at first it was, and even when I was using, like if I was on a roll where I was like two or three or four days where I hadn't used, if I put on a show like Scarface, I was like, oh, you can't watch Scarface sober,

you know, deliver an eight ball or, you know, in a case of whiskey. But, you know, know as time has gone by and Kelly and I are finding more positive things like HQ is happening like we call it HQ because it's headquarters for everything that we're going to do for the future and we just started to you know we're trying to start a home business called fire team alpha where we're fire team alpha I don't know how you guys designate in the seals but for us in a section you have fire team alpha bravo charlie delta so we're fire team alpha within the section and we

want to help other couples and individuals, right? And our life coaching is going to involve some tactical flavor, you know, some shooting if you want, to think of that. But so, so, you know, like, we're doing it. And the closer we do it, and the more steps we take, the, the, like, it's, you know, we were, last night, we were driving here from L.A. and we were like, we were both just kind of like, remember, like three months ago? It feels like forever ago, you know, like, Remember I used to be addicted to cocaine? And she's like, what I mean used to be, right? Like it's a bit of a reminder, but for me, I don't even know that guy anymore.

You know, but that was just me back in December. And I like that. I like that. I was in rehab with people that have, this is their fifth time. And that scared the shit out of me. Yeah. I was like, what do you mean your fifth time? And then this other guy, you know, and they're all in their 20s.

And they've been to rehab three, four, five, six times. I'm like, damn. I need to figure out a way to A, never be here again, and B, help you guys never come here again. You know, so we're even setting up a system with the rehab place because it's a good place. Actually, and it takes people from America and Canada. It's called Thousand Islands Rehab. It's right on the border where they're there with the St. Lawrence. We are working on a system where as people, because transitional housing from rehab to normal life is a bit of a problem.

so we are setting up once we have the headquarters built and everything by the end of the year by next year we're hoping to have like three or four bunks set up where we can bring in like-minded people from rehab do you already have a building for HQ are you working on it we're close we think we have

something I am moving to Stittsville from Orleans in Ottawa that means going from the far east end to the far west end we're very close I don't want to let the cat of the bag and case like but the guys that are helping me are really guys I met in politics actually and they're really great guys and they see you know they they've never held anything against me for what I've

done and if anything they're at 42 it kind of sucks to be starting over again and it's better than the alternative but it's better than the alternative and you know I could have stayed in politics and and you know it's a hundred and ten thousand dollars a year job which is great and stuff but I quit a job in the 90s where I was making like 65 grand a year in the 90s as a 19 year old putting things together for Ford making way too much money stupid money for a 19 year old because I wanted to join the army and I went from 850 bucks a week to 520 every two weeks and I loved it and that's what Kelly and I are doing now we are spiritually rich and we are I know we want more we're getting greedy we want more in fulfillment and enrichment in our lives and we just want to surround ourselves with good people yeah you know and you said earlier and I held on to the thought you said hey you know you got to take care of yourself first but you also and that's that there is definite truth to that because

if you don't take care of yourself you're not going to be able to help anyone else but I'm telling you and you already know because this is what you're talking about you can take care of yourself once you got yourself under control there's no better reward in life than helping other people and moving people in the right direction and helping people find the path so well i mean even through all these troubles i we talked about right before the show the recruiting depot for the canadian armed forces called me and i don't even think i was at a rehab yet was i babe no and i and like i said i wasn't shy about what was going on and and uh the top of the top of Top shot from every platoon now going through our recruitment depot is going to get the Mass Corporal Jody Midek

Middick Top Shot Award. There's no greater honor. And I get to go and give a speech now to these troopers, these young troops, as they leave recruit, they're now soldiers. They've finished basic training. And I get to go and tell them like, hey, look at me. Look at what I did. And I'm a complete fuck up.

But, you know, it's who you are. the inside. It's how you redeem yourself and it's how you look after those around you that makes you who you are. At least that's what I think. And here I am giving you a speech less than three months after finishing rehab or just like three months after. And you know what? Hey, as awesome as the Congressional Medal of Honor or the Victoria Cross for me is having something named after me that all the new troops see and some will point out and go, I fucking want that. I want to, I want I want that award. That's the best greatest honor the military probably could have bestowed on me, you know,

to say you are someone, we want our troops, our youngest, newest members to aspire to be like, man, I got a job. I got a job. My job is to be that guy. And if it means you screw up, it means you own it and you dust yourself off and you carry on. And you find a way and you, and you know what? And that's all I'm going to keep doing. That's why, like, friends like you and things like this,

podcasting in our generation is how we do that. And, like, again, talking about it, I'm trying not to get emotional because there's a Master Corporal Jody Minick Top Shot Award. And it's not just at, like, some unit mess hall, you know, like the, every new recruit going through the depot is going to see this thing. And it's anyway, I don't know what else to say. I'm speechless about it, frankly. Well, that's awesome.

And I mean, that is. That's just an awesome honor that these young recruits are going to come in. Every single recruit in the Canadian Army is going to know who you are and what you represent. And part of what they're going to see of what you represent once they know your story is they're going to realize that you're not perfect. And they're going to realize that no one's perfect. And they're going to realize that they can. get control over the things that have gotten out of control and they can move forward in a positive way and make the absolute best out of what they're doing with their life like I don't know about you but like something like that puts you in a position puts me in a position to be a mentor to these people oh for sure it's and like same with like my my podcast your pot people come to you I'm sure out of the blue with lots of things and and it's you know sometimes I you know I stopped responding for a while because of where I was, but now I'm getting back.

Like, I wear your T-shirts again, bro. Like, I don't know. Did we say that? Do we say that on the air? Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to, I want one of those before I leave. You know, because discipline does equal freedom.

And it doesn't mean you govern every moment of your day, but it means that more discipline you are with yourself, the more free you are to be yourself. Does that make more, that's how I've always seen it. That's what discipline equals freedom is, man. That's what it is. You know, I feel like we're coming to a natural concordial. conclusion here. Maybe I'm wrong, but thanks, man. Like, both of you. Like, I just, I, I, I need people like you that, like, as I look up to you, man, like, I know, I know it's weird.

It's weird. It should be the other way around. I know, but I do, man. I want that top shot award. I do. And, you know, you really, you really help me a lot, you know, and, uh, and I hope I can repay the favor one day. And I know you say I don't owe you, but I, I couldn't do, I couldn't achieve what I'm doing now without the support of people like you in my life. And echo, of course. Well, you're right. You don't owe me anything. And the only thing that I would like is for you to stay on the path. Roger that. And keep moving forward and keep kicking ass and stay clean and keep doing what you know you're capable of doing and what you're destined to do. Good copy. Check. All right. I think that is a natural. Can I just,

A quick shout out to Wardoll. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the War doll t-shirt. I think it's called The Dreamcatcher. He's a veteran in Canada. Go ahead, look him up and order some of his t-shirts, help him out. A full, is it 20? I think 20% of his proceeds go to charity for veterans.

That's awesome. War doll? War doll. The War doll. You got like a blog and he has some cool, cool swag. It's a good dude. Yeah, that's a pretty cool looking T-shirt. Yeah, I noticed it on the way in.

Yeah, I'll have them send you some. Check. Echo? Yes. You know, speaking of the path and whatnot, we see it's easy to slip off the path from time to time. It is. We want to get back on the path.

If we want to stay on the path, recommendations. Sure. From Echo Charles. Cool. I recommend Jiu-Jitsu. So, J-J-T-T, so you were talking about,

what? I'm starting to J-J-T, by the way. I like that. Good. Yeah. So relieving stress. You will have a good time with J-J-T. Yeah.

I'm finally comfortable enough with my, my leg stumps that I feel like I can roll with people without feeling inadequate. I've rolled with quite a few people with various stumps. Yeah. Stumps. Leg stumps. Inability. Arm stumps.

Yeah. Hell, we got Jeffrey Al here. He's got no hand and he chokes you with that stump. He's got a stump and he chokes you with it. Sticks it right into your Adams apple. Oh, yeah. In that certain position.

Part of the game. Yeah. He's going to use it. Yeah, there's people no hands, no legs. Both. Yeah, I'm finally able to deal with it. And you're below the knee too, so you can do some good stuff. All kinds of things can go down.

Oh, yeah. So, yeah, that's a good way. Stress relief, that's one of those ones that it's probably one of the biggest stress relievers there is. Yeah. That I've had in a way. My life is very, you know, simple. Even right when you begin. He gets super stressed out.

As we know, sometimes you've got the dishwasher. You know, if you want to go soy sauce bowls to their spot or silverware. That's a tough decision. We get stressed out. Luckily, you can do the jiu-jitsu to relieve that. Anyway. I'd be stressed about the state of this table. I did two a day yesterday.

I did two. I did morning jih Tijuana, afternoon. Just morning, gee. Morning, no-gee. Dang. My stress level was slow. It was so low.

I was so stoked. But that's, yeah, I did one yesterday. And I had thought noon. Dang. Okay. Check. Avoidance. Well, you know, my evenings are less,

how should I say, available? Yeah, yeah. As far as that can stuff. Because you're working. Yeah. Doing various things. Unless, stress relief, jiu-situ, right?

Where that's like a double, maybe even a triple, actually maybe even like an endless benefit situation. Jiu-tzu. Yeah. But as far as the stress relief. Physical, mental stress relief, yes. Yeah. And it's so prevalent.

You're going to like it. And you actually, you were going to hate it at first because you can get choked. Yeah. You're going to be unlocked by people. People, little 120-pound people are going to, choke you, they're going to arm lock you, and you're going to think this is not fair. Yeah. But it's not fair.

They know, I've been, like, a spectator of the community for so long. Yeah. Like, before I got wounded, I want, my plan was to come home and actually, like, trained and try and get a one MMA fight. Yeah. Because in Canada, like, it wasn't that big a thing before 2006. And then, you know, the whole getting blown up thing. Yeah.

But, but, like, I'm fully prepared for the, uh, humility that. that's very jitsu brings because I need it, frankly. Yeah, we all do. If you look at it and since you're who you are and how you are, you're going to have trouble avoiding the part that it's like, yes, this person is like beating me up and can beat me up even though this is. So you're probably not going to be able to avoid that element of regarding it. It's a reaction.

It's a common reaction to what's happening. Yes. So as long as I train to prepare for that. Yes. Like if I train my mind, right? Yes. But it doesn't change that if Kelly chokes me out, I will feel inadequate for a while. Yes.

And that's, so there's that part. Or will I? You might feel a little bit more. Yeah. But there's another part of it. He's blushing. No, no, no, no, I don't turn red, boy, I don't plus. Anyway, there's the other part of it is if you look at it as a problem solving situation.

You know, like, it's like, okay, he's not beating me up. He is, by the way. But you don't think of it like that. You think, okay, this is an issue. This is a problem. A puzzle to solve. Yes, I got to learn how to do that. It'll take a while, but in any puzzle situation, you know, okay, I'm not going to learn this thing overnight.

It's a huge 5,000-piece puzzle. Right. In Jitsu, it's infinite. But, you know, you still look at it in that sort of way. And then you start to accept, okay. The thing I really appeals to it, what appeals about it to me is that even practitioners, like of your guys' level, like Jocco's level, or even, what's his name? The guy who... You notice how he separated us?

Yes. Well, Jocco's... You've been at it since you're like, what, 12 or something? Like, what's the guy Gracie? Even he says he learns every day. Yeah, that's what I appeal. Like, you know, it appeals to me because there's no true experts. I mean, there are people that will kick your ass every day,

but even they have someone that could kick their ass. Always learning. Yes. So when you do Jiuji, Jodi, Middick and Chaco, you're going to need a ghee. Because you got to do ghee and no ghee. You got to do both. I think.

The way to fully stay on the past. half. 100% do both. So you need a ghee. You get an origin geet. You don't got to ask what kind of ghee do I get. Now you know origin geet. You saw the one I just got.

You got one for me? Yeah. We will. We'll get one for you. We'll get one for you for sure. Okay. Roger that. Her size too?

Yeah. Okay. We'll rock origin. All day. He's in the world straight up factually. Made in America. I know you're from Canada, but made in America actually means a lot. Yeah.

Hey, bro. North America. We're a team. North America. Yeah. 100%. You can say Made in. You can say Made in.

North America, which is also true. America means quality to me. It does. Except for 80s cars. That's it. 80s cars. But even then, you put them back together yourself, and it's just a piece of pride that you can have in the driveway.

You're good. Indeed. And these geese are no exception, by the way. So yeah, you go to origin, mane.com. That's where you can get them. They got a lot of other stuff. Jiu-Jitsu and just regular stuff. Regular life stuff.

Life stuff. Like jeans. Yes. That's what I got to get you. I got to get some origin jeans. I'm a big fan of jeans that fit right. Yeah. They're legit.

And you get your supplements there. Which will keep you in the game on the path, 100%. Oh yeah. 100%. 100%. 100%. 100%. Yeah.

And I don't really use 100%. I do. Do you want to say 99 just in case? No, negative. No, wow. That's committing. Normally, normally I would say 90% you know the 1% wiggle room.

I get it. Not in this case. Actually, they've proven to be the most important supplements I've ever taken. Better than Joccos? They are Jocos actually Now that you mention it So Jocko Cruel, Super Creel oil

Jocko Joint Warfare Made in Origin Labs Roger that So you get them at origin So you know I see I see where you You know I can see okay now

Now I see But nonetheless they are Straight up They'll keep you in the game See what I'm saying Okay so discipline go Which is a little bit of a Neutropic

Yeah Boom But Jason Gardner Did his first Eschelon Front gig Nice Dang in the game right in the game and he sent me a text and he was like I took this I said I took

three discipline go 42 minutes out from the commencement he goes I was for and even tech it sounded like that's in the text yeah yeah that's how Jason is oh yeah he was so he was so fired up but the funny thing is he texted me earlier and he says hey it's seven o'clock in the morning and I was at another gig and he says hey can you hook me up with some discipline go and I said I'm not at my house my wife can get you the supply

I understand so this is sort of like the supply thing yeah in a good way you deliver we deliver oh okay he went to my house picked up a couple picked up enough discipline for his gig discipline go and then he hit it so yeah if you feel like you might need

a little something to clarify your thoughts to ignite a little bit of extra brain power. Yes. Get yourself some discipline go. You can just get the regular discipline, powdered drink. Yeah.

The thing is, if you're going to be doing something where, let's just, let me just call it what it is, if you're going to have to go to the bathroom and you don't want to, like if you're going to go on stage and talk to people for two hours

and in the middle of it, you're going to go, hey, one, hold on a second. With Bruce, by the way, I've never done. And hopefully I never will do. So that's that. You don't know anyone that's done that.

I don't know. I mean, if you ever just had to, like, go to the bathroom so bad. With the middle of a presentation, yeah. But you don't. No, you don't. No, you don't.

But you don't. But you don't. Wait, let me put it to, let me put it to, okay, I used to, before going in the field, hydrate like crazy. Yeah. And then, so you hydrate like crazy.

And then you get on the helicopter. And you got a piss. And then you got like a 48 minute. And as soon, you're getting on the helicopter. You're like, okay, I just need, you should go right now. And you don't because someone's like,

hey, come on. Willink, here. So you get in and then you're flying and you have to go to the bathroom so bad. The whole time. The whole time. It like hurts. I've run off the hirk.

It's hard right and just pissed. Yeah. Like because the whole flight you just rate you just ready to bust. So there are sometimes where that is really a problem. So discipline go can help you out with that. Also, Moke. Some additional protein going back in the gym or if you're already in the gym, whatever, mold, boom.

To another two-pronged effect with the Mulk as well. additional protein and dessert. Yep. Desert. Taste delicious. Don't forget about the warrior kid milk, which kids everywhere

are basically, if you want your kid to be just a complete destroyer on the mats in school, in everything that they do,

get a warrior kid milk. Yep. And they'll be happy about it. I went off and I had to tell who was it? Tyler You know Tyler the kid from origin He was doing like the

The jaco in New York City Little video And I said I was going crazy Kind of like I just did And I was saying that If you don't give your kids Warrior Kid Mulk

That's child abuse Yeah Boy yeah It kind of is Yeah That's neglect If you think about this though And now I'm being real

If you have a kid And you give your kid Strawberry Quick which is literally filled with sugar and crap, or you could give them strawberry milk, which tastes just as good, if not better, and it's 100% good for the kid? How is that not child abuse?

It is not not. So there you go. You got to think about your choices. We're going to call the Child Protective Services when we're watching. We're seeing Quick getting bought. You're going down. You're going to get in trouble.

So, quick might have something to say about that. Chocolate and strawberry. Yeah, of course they do. They're going to pay someone and put more money into some politician's pocket to come after me because we're trying to make kids stronger. Bring it on. World. Bring it on.

So that's that. Yes, it is. Also, Jocka's store. It's called Jocko Store. And this is where we get our apparel. You want to represent while you're on the path. It's good. We've got some new stuff on there.

Lightweight hoodies. What do you say? Do you see Brady's vote? And Brady just said Brady didn't even say heavyweight hoodies. He said standard hoodies, which I don't even want a standard hoodie. I want a heavyweight. I want a Canadian level hoodie. You don't even like the word standard.

No, I don't like standard. It's too easy to be average. Standard. Well, okay, Brady, I respect it. I respect his opinion. That wasn't just his opinion. That was the opinion of a vote. A Twitter vote.

Oh, like one of those polls? Yeah. I get it. And it was 6040 in favor of standard. If he would have had. had heavy weight on there. It could have been a whole scenario. Could have. Well, good news is we already have standard hoodies. Okay. And that's a good thing. We have lightweight hoodies. Jody Minick. What about you? Lightweight

huddies. Just in general, don't it? I'm not saying it says lightweight though. She doesn't even like that. I want a hoodie. I want just a hoodie. Why are you getting a hoodie? What does you're not? Because people in the world exist with different, how should I say, opinions, different thresholds, different takes on the hoodie situation. situation rather than you and apparently Jani-mitic. No, I rock a thin, a thin material hoodie. Oh, okay. That's what it is underneath my vest.

Yeah. Okay. So you're in support. You're over with echo then. Yeah. No, no. But I have a, no, I have thicker. That's cool.

Wait, he just said, you're with me and you just said, no, no. So you're not with me. I'm with myself here. This is, I got, evidently, I have several layers of hoodie. Okay. Good. Is what I'm saying. I have very thick for cold, extreme weather.

And I have very thin. for you know like California yeah see Jody is with me but I did never call it lightweight yeah okay you're at you know what I think I just call it a hoodie it's like a shirt material maybe yeah yeah yeah but you know what lightweight is a classification for warmth okay so maybe call it temperate temperate temperate it's it's a working title you know right they are erred weather yeah like yes for sure used to say this thing one like in the piper incoming. That's what you'd say.

Incoming. So lightweight, temperate, hoodies, whichever incoming, too little, anyway, some other new stuff on there. Anyway, it's on jocco store.com. Also, you can get more rash guards. You really want to represent. So just to help about like a layman, a grass guard is to avoid getting

like dragged across the mats and other people's skin, right, and getting your skin. That's part of it. Part of it is also you're just wearing it because if you and I are grappling, my fingers and toes and hand and get caught in your clothes. and it's a little bit of a pain. Roger that.

And it's better with the sweat situation. Like if you're wearing this shirt, which is cool, by the way. If you're wearing that shirt and you sweat all in it, you did 10 rounds, you know, and you're sweating all. That's like splashing everywhere. You know, it's everything.

The rash guard is like, it's the best uniform. Because like it can become a very abrasive when it's wet as we knew. Yeah. Or some people wear it underneath the ghee. Some people. Roger. So, you know, say if you're training ghee twice a day for weeks or weeks.

So rash guards are. a must for training jiu-jitsu. Maybe once I get to know what I'm doing. Yeah, they're not a must, but they're a nice to have. They're cool. Yeah, very good. I prefer big time. Unless we have them, we have some.

Represent the path big-time in your jiu-suitzoo or whatever else you're doing. Cycling, running, whatever. Some women's stuff on there, some hats on there, both flex-fit and trucker hats. Jody, flex-hinder trucker hat. Oh, I'm a big fan of the trucker hat. There you go. Because it gives me the ventilation. Yeah.

See, you like that, Echo? Yeah, I like that. And we offer that, by the way. But a flex fit in the winter. I say, we have winter in Canada. So flex fit keeps the heat in. Yeah, trucker cap. Because it's very humid in Ontario.

Well, we have beanies too. Speaking of winter. Oh, okay. There you go. The be a beanie. We call it a touque. Took. We call it a Took in Canada.

Is that the one with the, with the, well, yeah, yeah. Or just anything that goes on your head that looks like a knitted cap. Yeah, and it's called in the, Army Field manual. A duke. Yeah, we have that. And you get your duke, eh?

I'm impartial. I don't wear nothing. I don't wear hats anymore. Yeah, I know. As much. You don't have to. You have a beautiful, perfectly round head. I'm always hiding my hair.

Like, when I have hair. When I have hair. Easy money. It gets curly and then it gets like really hard to manage. Yeah, very unmanageable. Actually, there's a picture up on my Instagram. If, you know, if you followed Jody on Instagram. Sure.

Sure. Of me at 16, looking all kinds of rough neck with my hair. I'm about this thick, and my hair is just a goddamn disaster. And it's beautiful. It's beautiful to see. A wild mane of Jody Medicare. My favorite actor was Mel Gibson at the time. I'm just going to say that.

I respect that big time. Nonetheless, good stuff on there. If you jocco store.com, that's where you get it. If you like something, get something. Also, jocco white tea. Jocco white tea. I've yet to try Jocko White Tee. That's really too bad because I got some right here and I've been trying it all day.

Yeah. Oh, Jock reaches. You can hook you up after the show. One of the many benefits, if you don't know already, which I know you already do. You can deadlift 8,000 pounds. There was a guy he just deadlifted a bunch of weight recently, right, in the rogue situation. Yeah. Yeah.

A lot of people are worried if they're competing in powerlifting. Right, right. And they, yeah, will you get tested for Jocko White T if you? And they're already automatically going to know you're taking jargo white tea. Yeah, that's kind of the test. So you've got to be careful. Keep it at 7,500 in the tournament. Got to send back a little bit.

In the competition. But other benefits are certified USDA organic. Think about that. You could drink a normal energy drink and become less healthy. Yeah. Or you could drink jockey white tea and you could become more healthy. Yes. Is that a hard choice to make?

I don't think so, no. It's not even a hard choice to make. Drink what's going to make you more healthy. Also, subscribe to the podcast. If you haven't subscribed to the podcast yet, first of all, you have issues because there's been, this is 169, and I used to think that everyone had subscribed at this point, but it was actually Echo Charles that proved me wrong because somebody tweeted like,

no, I just subscribed for the first time. So if you haven't subscribed, subscribe, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play Stitch, or whatever. Leave some reviews. I was reading reviews. I always review the reviews is what I do. It's healthy. It's healthy to review your reviews. Yeah, okay.

All right. And then don't forget about the Warrior Kid podcast as well. Yeah, let's not. The best kids podcast that has ever been. Does anyone disagree with that? I don't even know there was a kid's qualification or category. Warrior Kid podcast. Family and children and family or something that's like is the category that it's under.

I'm sorry. I did not know you had that. Yeah, the Warrior Kid podcast. That's how unplugged I became from the world. The Warrior Kid podcast, which I haven't put out as many as I should, but there's a reason for that. It's like there's a lot that goes into. I know it might not seem like it, but there's a lot that I put into those. A thought.

Yeah, it's kind of my fault. I feel like I haven't done what all that I could have been doing to help make it happen. I got to work harder. That's what needs to happen. So there's that and don't forget about the warrior kid soap, which we have some good new samples. You can get the jocco soap. You can get the trooper soap or soap. It's nice.

Has the rope you can hang it on, soap on a rope. Irish Irish OaksRance. Soap on a rope is super useful. Yeah. It has a real purpose. You know that, right? Well, here's the thing. We used to make it in school.

Well, I never knew about that. I'm quiet here. You know, soap on a rope and like all this I'd be like, oh, that sounds cute. You know, and then when I say, oh, soap is actually on a rope. Yeah. For a reason. It's super useful having a rope. It's just kind of cool.

You never drop a bar of soap again. You're good to go. So that's Aiden. It's a big problem. I'm always like, Kid, bar of soap, so he's making it.

And that way you can stay clean. Don't forget about YouTube. If you want to see, if you want to see echoes what he considers to be his legit videos. I never considered using that word. Then you can see him there because he thinks his videos are worth using. I actually kind of agree with that. Kind of.

Echo's got some, he's good at the. Yeah, stuff like that. Either that or he just really does a lot of editing and makes it so you notice it. Because wouldn't it be a better editor that would make it so like seamless that you would just not even realize? You just feel it. You wouldn't notice it. Yes.

You're actually right. Okay. No, yeah, you're right. When I do make those videos, if they're good, not good, whatever, when I do make them, I make them for myself. For sure. Yeah. So there you go. I shouldn't put sound effects while you're talking.

When you think about it, I can see music because music kind of enhances. What about explosions? Yeah, what about crackling? Like, how does that enhance the message? You know what it enhances? My effects that I put on, you see what I'm saying? It keeps you interested in what you're doing. It makes it interesting in the video.

So, yes, you are correct. Psychological warfare, that's an album that you can listen to. If you need a little help in a moment of weakness. It actually, I've been listened to it a lot in the last three months. I like to hear that. Hey, back to your. thing where you were saying earlier where you couldn't look at the shirt I couldn't wear it I couldn't look at Brad that was I mentioned this before where I mentioned the opposite though it's like when you

put it on you can't skip a workout now you can't slack it's the same concept you walk straighter yeah you have a little bit more purpose in the look in your eye yeah but like I didn't wear joccos I didn't wear any of the veteran t-shirt companies like I just I yeah when you put it on you got like I got them I walked out of rehab wearing your shirt I like that. Yeah. And it's just, you know, and this is going to sound a little corny, but it's kind of just weird having one of your friends pep talk you out of bed.

I've got to go ahead and say that. Like, you know, putting on your psychological warfare album on repeat, and it's like somebody you hang with. It's just kind of like, I get it, Jocko. I need to work harder, okay? I texted you yesterday, like, I get up at six. It's not Jock timing, but it's the best I can do right now. You know what's really weird is when I have to listen to psychological warfare.

That would be the most weird, I think. That is the weirdest thing. Or the most normal. Or it's the most amazing thing ever. Maybe it would be the spouse situation. Actually, that's a good idea. If you are a person that's trying to do something, it'd be good to cut yourself a couple tracks to explain to yourself why you're trying to do this thing.

So when the moment of weakness comes, you could listen to me, sure, but you could actually listen to yourself. Actually, that's a great idea. I've heard of people doing that with like, like, this is my presence. or this is my future self. It's like, I've heard of people doing that. They'll be like, okay, I know that I'm going to be slacking on whatever, and I forget exactly what it's for, but they'll be like,

they'll put an audio note and they'll say, this is your past self or whatever, saying to you. Future echo, listen closely. Yes, exactly right, saying, hey, this is what you're thinking right now. This is what you're feeling right now. Don't do it. You know, it's like you're talking to yourself. I've heard of that.

Yeah, Kelly and I have a thing where we go. That sounds like a problem for future Jody and Kelly to do it. Yeah, yeah, exactly. We're going to do the opposite. You can communicate. We got to do the opposite. Yeah. You got to be like, you dealt with that future Jody Kelly, didn't you?

I like that. We're going to try that. We'll let you know how it works. I'll tell you right now, it sounds good in theory, but I'm all like disobey myself way quicker than I'll disobey you. Well, that's a good point. And I think a lot of people like that's why they get so effective. There's probably people on both sides of the coin. Yeah.

Because eventually you'd be like, I'm not listening to Jocco. Yeah, I don't have to. He's just some guy. You know, he's crazy. Right? But then if it's yourself telling you, that. that. No escape.

If it's a goal that you set for yourself, it's not my goal. It's a goal you set for yourself. It's true. I'm my own worst critic, so I don't know. I think, you're right. Breaking a promise to yourself is way easier. Yeah, because you kind of might be used to that. It's weird.

I think you'd use both. Also, check out flipside canvas.com. This is Dakota Meyer from podcast 115. and he's selling basically badass prince. Is that what you call him? Prince. Prince of what? Really cool stuff.

Various artwork. You know, like movie scenes, things like that? No, like there's a couple of them sitting over there. Good. You can get one.

He made. You can get in all of this. He's making that stuff. Yeah. Discipline equals freedom. So yeah, if you want to support. What is it?

What's the website? It's called Flipsidecanvist.com. And actually the reason it's called Flipside is because of one of the last things one of his bros said to him before they went into that battle was i'll see you on the flip side that's what the story is behind that's awesome so support dakota he's the man and check it out you can also get these uh these well they're kind of reminders to you that you can just hang up yeah and get reminded oh yeah because we need to get reminded whether it's psychological warfare whether it's a a print keep yourself on the path whether it's a t-shirt keep yourself on the

path. Yeah. These things have an impact. Yeah. And those rebinders are actually way more like powerful, but they're more powerful than you might think because think about like even like with drinking or something like this where if you have like a planned day tomorrow where it has no room for drinking that day, no room, no room for drinking the night before or that day. If you have it all planned out, you're probably, you'll drink your likelihood to drink way less. But if you do, but if you Don't you. It's almost like you sort of forget to stay focused on what you have to do. You know, it's almost like a way of forgetting. Discipline equals freedom.

That's why if you have a plan day, like you get more done rather than, because you fall susceptible to like, what do I feel like doing? You know, you're led more with what you feel. The weird thing is when you're dealing with addiction, that's when you screw up the most. The day that you have the big presentation or the big meeting, that night before is when you will. Is that like self-sabotage or something? It's 100% self-sabotage. Dang. Because you want to get caught because you know you're doing the wrong things.

You know what? A lot of my behavior over the last two for the last two years was like I hope someone, I think, psych a lot or subconscious was like, yeah, somebody like. Because it became my actions became almost arrogant, like in my boldness. Anyway, we're done with all that. Let's finish the commercials. These are more like announcements, tips to stay on the past. This is the Jock-Willink podcast. He can do whatever he wants.

True. It's true. So home gym, right? We're doing home gym. You go to Onit.com. This is where you get your kettle bells. I have all the monkey bells that they put out. Like five years ago.

Remember those? Oh, yeah. All I got them too. Primal bells. And I got the, I got the mace. The quad mace. The quad mace.

That thing is awesome. Yeah. Do you have like a regular routine with the mace? I had one. Yeah. So I, did you do that one time? I actually jacked my elbows because of all,

like all the shooting I did as a sniper. Oh, yeah. So I had to build up my inner, like, because what's in the inside, it's the golfer's elbow, right? This is tennis. This is golf. Anyway, I had to build up the tendons and then I could swing the mace.

Yes, yeah, and that's what I'm saying. You try to do it a little routine if you're not used to that, bro. You'll feel all those little weirdo muscles that you know. One of my buddies sold the house here in San Diego. And he sends me a text. He's out of town. You know, he's in the dames. And he goes, hey, man, sold the house.

Escrow closes tomorrow. It's done. I got a tire there and some other like bumper plates, whatever. If you want to go grab it, I'm not taking it. So if you want to get it, otherwise, I got to get it moved by someone. So it was a little bit of a, you know, good deal for him, good deal for me. And it's been raining here in Southern California. Anyways, I show up to the house.

And, you know, I was pretty psyched to get a tire, you know? We're talking about a big tractor tire. Yeah, big tractor tire. But I was thinking like a big tractor tire that, you know, you could, you know, easily throw in a vehicle or something like that. This thing was like freaking massive. So like some, like the big foot would be. It's huge.

It's huge. It's absolutely huge. I barely got it. And you know my giant van, I barely, literally barely got into the most, the biggest van you, a human can buy.

I barely got it in there. And it was all filled with water. I had to get a cup and scoop all the water up. And I'm wearing my flip flops. It was a nightmare. So to my buddy that, then you know who you are,

I got your tire into my backyard. I'm psyched now, of course, because now I got a cool tire. Dang, yeah. I also was like one of those things. I go, oh, you know, I've got a call in like 30 minutes. I'll just drive over there, grab it real quick.

No, no. I was out there, barely making it back. But you made it. Yeah, I made it. So don't underestimate the tire. That's the deal. You know, clarify the tire. Oh, you got a tire?

Yes, you need a moving truck to move it. Oh, okay. Give me a heads up next time. Yeah, you figure tractor tire. Tractor tire. Yeah. So that there's a little. It's as tall, it's not as tall as me.

It's not as tall as me, but it's big. Yeah, like the one here. No. No. That's what I was expecting. At our gym here, you know, Victory Gym, we know, we got some tires. We got three or four of them. This thing is bigger than all of them, but a lot bigger.

Yeah, you got jammed up then. Yeah. But, you know, hey, he hooked me up, apparently. Nonetheless, he was probably vague on purpose. Yeah. No, he knows I'm fired up, right? Most people think Jock won't ask. It was an estimation.

Jocko won't ask. I know he won't ask. I can't wait for him to go get that tire. Yeah. Nonetheless, so tires or otherwise. home gym, boom, like I say, kettlebells, rings, jump rope. That's a big one, too.

Don't forget the jump rope. Don't forget the jump rope. A lot of cool stuff on there. If you have feet. If you can jump rope. Have you jumped rope? Can you jump rope? No, I've tried.

There's a guy, though, on Instagram. Is that so much like foot, ankles and calf, right? Yeah, I think his name is Mad Matt on Instagram. He's a double-below knee. I believe he's American Army. Anyway, he jumps rope, but he has like some prosthetic I haven't seen before so I'm going to try and get my hands on some of those. I like it. Jumping rope is awesome.

Yeah, unless you get them at onet.com slash jock. We got some books. Jody's got two books. The first book, which I covered on podcast 24, it's called Unflinching. You can read it. You should definitely read it. It's an awesome book.

Thanks, man. Yeah, it shows the path, the journey that Jody's been on and now you know the rest of the journey. You can hear the rest of the journey. And he also wrote another book called Everyday Heroes. Yeah. Which is.

So that's about, because in Canada, the military book genre is not as well received, let's say. So my publisher realized there was an audience when my book hit the bestseller list. In Canada, though. I mean, there's less people in Canada, all of Canada than there are in California. So it's like my kids aren't going to Ivy League schools or anything. But so they want, so I wanted to do a book that would let other soldiers tell their story. And I'm hoping to make a series out of it. Like it's a book that I think I could do every year and never run out of material.

So pick it up, everyday heroes. It's available. Every Amazon and anywhere. But some good old boys from World War II in Korea right up to Afghanistan. One of my favorite stories is this guy Bruno. He disarms a suicide bomber while the guy has his fingers on the trigger. Yeah. Like balls the size of like kettlebells.

Yeah. So anyway, and he's a pretty cool dude. He's out there somewhere doing the, during doing the good fight but that's awesome yeah so pick those books up you can also get mike and the dragons best children's book in the world yeah mikey and the dragons well you know mike in the dragons you can pick that one up you can pick up way the warrior kid way the warrior kid too which is called mark's mission jody how does your daughter like weigh the warrior kid uh in her words it's the greatest book she's ever read and she's 10 yeah and she's a girl and she's

Canadian and she's my daughter and I can't get her to do like even jiu-jitsu is an argument. I'm like, you're doing jiu-jitsu and I start. She's like, no, I don't want to. But for some reason, that book and it sat on her shelf for a couple months. But man, when she read it, she said this is, I didn't, she didn't tell me she was reading it. But she said your friend wrote the greatest book I've ever read. She did a book report on it for school and everything. That is awesome. Yeah, I think it's one of those things you don't want to force your kid to read it. You just put it there. You just kind of put it out there and let them read it just like any leadership position. You don't want to force things down someone's throat.

You just make available to them the path. And when they see it, they get on it. And there's going to be a new Warrior Kid book coming out in the spring. I'll let you know when it's available for pre-order. The big pre-order. The name of that, the subtitle that book is where there's a will. So you got that one coming. You got the discipline equals freedom field manual.

If you need to. It's another little reminder for life. It's another thing that'll keep you on the path. It keeps me on the path. Just have that book sitting on one of my friends that is at a hedge fund. And in their, in their, you know, it's like a really cool looking, you know, hedge funds, they're New York City, all cool, all. Wolf of Wall Street type stuff. What's the, yeah, sleek.

That's the modern thing. They're very sleek. And he shows me a picture of like they're, when you walk in. And when you walk into a hedge fund, you want to, they want to leave an impression that they know what's up. Yep. There's this big white table. What's on the white table? The field man.

The field man. One book just sitting there. And he says everyone that comes in picks it up and goes, what is this thing? This is awesome. It's perfect to be the only book to aesthetically, especially if it's a white table or a black table. It goes with everything. Or a gray table.

Yeah. It goes with everything. So get that book for yourself or anyone that wants to get after it more or can Continually extreme ownership we talked about that a bit today The lessons we learned in combat and how you can apply them to your business to your team to your family To your life also the dichotomy of leadership which is now starting to creep out from its older brothers Shadow hmm because extreme ownership everyone knows it everyone loves it sure, but they're like oh Dicotomy oh we don't know about your little brother. It's kind of like you echo

You're your jade's little brother. All right. Yep, sure yep and you know it was kind of like oh jade was kind of the guy right I don't know came first came you're just the echo right and Jade was Jade was bigger than you right yeah he was who's bigger than echo you see what I'm saying so dichotomy of leadership is like the echo Charles of the Jade Charles family you know what's funny on that on that thread like before my Jody Middick podcast episode one when we were coming to meet you when I was coming we debated Luke and I debated if Echo Like I say I can't wait to find out what Echo Charles's real name is and Luke says I hope it's Echo Charles because I just thought it was remember we talked about this alpha bravo Charlie

Right and then when I asked you know like no my name my name's echo and why what's Charles mean? And you're like it's my last name. It's last name I just re-listening to the shows by shows the other day and I was like I was like oh yeah I can't wait to talk to Echo about like how I thought for sure your real name was like was like like Ernie or something. He called you Echo because it's cooler. It starts with an E. We didn't want no Ernie on the podcast here. Well, kind of like how you did with Tuskegee and a bruiser.

You did that exact thing. And maybe if your name was like Ernie, I would have to change. I'm just saying instead of Ernie, it's Echo. Echo just sounds cooler. And then Charles was like because like maybe your real name was Charlie or something. I don't know. Yeah.

I dig it. Well, with these books, good news. By the way, books, speaking of books, all these you can you can get everyday heroes. all these books on joccopodcast.com. Yeah. I got them organized even.

There's a list of books. All of them. And you can get the dichotomy of leadership there as well and extreme. All these books. Yeah. I got them list on a page. Every book we've covered. You haven't got every dee heroes on there.

You do now. No, I think I did for that original. Oh, okay. My book was on your website? I think when. Not the original. That one wasn't. Yeah.

Unflinching is for sure. It is. Oh, thanks, man. I didn't realize that. Yeah. Every book that we've done is on, is on jococoppodcast.com. Bye episode.

That's probably why it's still selling. It's still selling. It's still selling. That's what I mean. Well, the weird thing you got to remember is that the lag time on the podcast is there's some, there's, there's many,

many people that start with episode one today. No, bro. That's what I mean. When I say, I get a message like weekly minimum one a week. It's, I just heard you on Jocco. Yeah.

And then I go, like I resist the urge to say, oh, if you heard me on episode, what was it 24? 24 25. Wait till 1-11 or and then you know because I want them to discover it on their own. Yeah.

Yeah. No, that's one of the coolest things is people and people ask me where should I start on the podcast? And I say one. And they definitely build on each other. But they're also timeless. So it's not like you go, oh, well, they're talking about some political thing that happened in 2014. And I don't want to listen to that right now. No, it's like we're talking about something that happened 480 years ago and you do one.

want to hear about it. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, but I saw the dichotomy leadership, someone the other day had wrote on Twitter, this is the best leadership book I've ever read, which is normally what I hear about extreme ownership. So now I see a little replacement there. Jade Charles is being usurped by his younger brother.

That's what's going on. So Jade better start to keep rooting for extreme ownership year. You represent the dichotomy of leadership. Thanks, brother. We got Eschonfront Leadership Consultancy. What we do is we solve problems through leadership. It's me, Lafabe Babin, J.P. Denele, Dave Burke, Flynn Cochran, Mike Sorrelli, Mike Baima,

and Jason Gardner. Someone put up like, dang, everyone at this company is a pipe hitter. No one can compete. I was like, hmm? Hey, I'm not going to say no one can compete, but we definitely have awesome guys on the team. That's echelonfront.com for details there.

We got the muster coming in 2019, May 23rd and 24th, in Chicago, September 19th, 20th, and Denver, December 4th and 5th in Sydney, Australia. That's right. Go to Extreme Ownership.com. Every one of these events is sold out, and all of these are going to sell out. They're actually selling faster than they've ever sold before when we look at our data analytics. Sure. The meta data data.

Yeah. The meta data. I think it's meta. No, we're going to say meta. Not a meta. We made it data. How do you guys? call it. We'll work on the Canadian one after this. Yeah. The Canadian dates. Yeah. EF online.

One of the reasons that we did this is because not everyone can come to the muster. And every time I post about the muster, there's someone that says, when are you coming to Milwaukee? When are you coming to Detroit? When are you coming to Ottawa? And the bottom lines, we can't go everywhere to do musters. That was one of the things that made us make this thing, EF online. The other reason is we work with companies that have tens or hundreds of thousands of employees. and they say, oh, can you just train all of your employees? And I say, well, yeah, sure. And then they say, I have 138,000 employees.

No, actually, that's going to be a problem. So how to solve that problem? We made EF Online. It is interactive training online that you can take. EFonline.com. We have also EF Overwatch, if you want a combat proven special operations leader or combat aviation leader to come and work inside your company

to make things happen then go to eFoverwatch.com fell out the information whether you're a vet that wants a position or you're a talent seeker that needs people at your company that can lead and understand the principles that we talk about in extreme ownership

then check that out and if you want to keep cruising with us all of us can be found on the interwebs on Twitter and on Instagram and on the face. Are you off? Are you off Facebook? No, he's on Facebook. Echo is at Echo,

Charles. I am at Jocka Willink and Jody is at Jody Middick. Echo, anything else? I have nothing else. Thank you. Thank you for having nothing else. All right. See you, man.

He's good. Jody, anything else, brother. Thank you, Jock. Thank you, ECHO. Thank you to the listeners. and, you know, I'm working on being the best Jody I can be. And thanks for being there for me and with Kelly and I. It's good that you have like a new mission, remember?

That was one of the best ways I've ever heard it put. Like you need a mission. So, man, if you don't have like an important mission, like you don't really care. I mean, sure, I got, I know what I got to do tomorrow in the next month and all this stuff. But if it's not like that important to you, right, you're going to be like, all right, I need something. Well, that's what happened, bro. The politics getting into politics winning was a great mission. Yeah.

And then I won. And then I was like the dog that caught the car. Yeah. I was like, okay, what do I do now? And I tried to learn. And I, you know, I had the deputy mayor and the mayor and they were all on my side. And I had lots of, like they all, we still talk, but my, my, they could say, like, they could see it. My heart just wasn't in it, you know, like Kelly would always say, she would always say, man, you know, when you get excited when you talk about like going here to see the truth.

groups are going there and shooting and going there and like planning that business you vote. I wanted to open a gym since before I got blown up. You know, and now I'm back on and I thought I could do both. I thought being the counselor would let me like, you know, have a spot, open it, like be there for meetings. But it's just like it's not, it doesn't work. Not for me anyway. Maybe if I go like, I might get political again in my 50s after I make a few bucks and it's a little less more to pay the bills. and it's a little less about paying the bills

and more about getting things done. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, but right now I need to be myself for a while. And so that's it. Like 10 year plan is to be Jody.

Boom. Check. And as Echo said, that's a new mission, the new mission with the place that you're developing. And you know, that's awesome. to go or anything. But, you know, a guy like me thinking you're awesome. But my point is everything you're doing is for the community. And I had to sit down, actually shot show 2017, one of the guys I taught on his basic sniper sat. He's one of the best snipers in Canada, one of our soft commanders. He said, you need to stop. He was another guy who told me, you can do more for the community as Jody Middick working for yourself than for working for

Colt or Damako or any of these other companies that I was looking at. And, you know, and it's being able to take the reins of leadership that you have and start doing the things. Listening to you talk, I'm like, because Kelly and I, like, we have a five and 10 year plan where we hope we can have an employment website, where we hope we can have a speaking bureau that can take guys of a similar mindset and have a presence and put them out there, delivering a good message. And you're doing all that. And you're being an example for my kids, dude. and like because and you know it takes a village to raise a kid and I and I want my daughters to know

all the best people in the world and you know you're one of them and and you're just everything you're doing with the people around you like I'm I have I have someone that's leading the way for me and I and I'm glad it's not just me doing it either is that makes like I'm way I'm 10 years behind you but but now I know it's it's possible too yeah no it's um there's there's plenty of room There's all kinds of people in the world that are down to move forward and move on. And there's plenty of pie for everybody. That's the one thing. Right now in Canada, we're dealing with a little bit of like too much competition,

not enough collaboration as far as the tactical after Army world. But, you know, and the reason I kept throwing in Ottawa and Canada there is because they're hungry for Jocko in Canada. And we should talk. And we have a little bit. Yeah, yeah. We have a little bit. But I'm telling you, it's probably bigger than you realize.

Okay, so anyway, I just wanted to throw that in. You said anything else, and I, just listening to you talk gives me hope that everything I want to do is achievable. There's no doubt about it. I mean, I'm an average dude that I'm hard worker. I will say that, but nothing special in any other way. And I just, just work hard to get after it. And good people attract good people.

And you, you know, if you were hard to work with, people wouldn't work with you. And that's one thing I've learned. Like, you know, if you want good people around, you have to be a good person. person. Yeah. No, it's, it's awesome to work with all the guys that I work with before and we're all working together again as actually with Jason Gardner. We were just laughing because he got back from his gig. I got back from my gig and he was just laughing and saying, this is so awesome, man. This is so awesome. You're around all the people you were around in uniform and now you can help each other again. That's what it's all about, man. That's what it's all about. And speaking of those people in uniform

that allow us to do this podcast, people like you, Jody, all of our military. personnel and also the police and law enforcement and firefighters and paramedics and EMTs and correctional officers and border patrol and all the first responders that are out there in uniform all of you allow us the freedom and security that we have and that we relish every single day that allow us these opportunities so thanks to every single one of you for providing it and to everyone else that is listening we talk about the path And we talk about discipline and we talk about living clean, but it is not an easy path. It is filled with temptations and pitfalls and hazards and traps.

And it's hard to stay on the path. And if you fall off, it can seem even harder to get back on. But you can do it. You got to be honest with yourself. Do not be a slave. Don't be a slave to drugs or booze or emotion or whatever weakness is trying to be your master. Don't allow it. Tell the truth.

Call out your own weaknesses. Then impose discipline. Impose your will and climb back up onto the path and set yourself free. And until next time, Jody Middick and Echo and Jocko. Out.