Jocko Podcast - 185: We Only Get One Shot, So Fight The Good Fight and Make it Count, with Mitch Aguiar

Episode Date: July 10, 2019

0:00:00 - Opening 0:02:16 - Mitch Aguiar. SEAL. MMA Fighter. 2:07:44 - Final thoughts and take-aways. 2:11:00 - Support: How to stay on THE PATH. 2:38:21 - Closing GratitudeSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 185 with Echo Charles and me Jocker Willick. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. You get one shot and that's it. And in the end, you're going into the ground. Regardless of what you believe the afterlife consists of or what it doesn't consist of, as far as what you get to hold on to, once you leave here is nothing. And I implore people all the time to make it count because this is it

This is the finals. There are no redos You can't hit the rewind button and even worse you can't even hit the pause button. There's no way you can stop the clock from ticking No possible way the countdown is on and the days are finite you only get so many then it's over so until them make them count make all of them count and on the podcast today I have a guest a fellow frogman whom to the best of my knowledge is doing his best to make his days count his name is Mitch Aggie are, and we just met each other. But like I said, he's a frog man.

He likes Jiu-Jitsu. He likes to get after it. So my guess is we should have some things to talk about. So Mitch, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me. Good to meet you. Yeah, good to meet you as well. 15 minutes ago.

Yep. Picked you up at the airport. I think we linked up some way on social media. Correct. And you are in the A.O. Doing some training. And so here you are. Cool.

Where'd you grow up? I grew up in Virginia Beach and then was there till about 11. Then moved to Maryland and live with my dad. Was there till about 16. So wait, grew up in Virginia Beach parents in the military? Yep. My mom and dad were both in the Navy. Both in the nav.

That's right. Check. And my mom was an OS and my dad was a combat camera. man with a dev group okay right on and and so then you were there until you said you were 11 yeah I was in Virginia Beach till I was 11 they were divorced and my dad had gotten out of the Navy and was living up in Maryland working at the Aberdeen proving ground okay sure and doing high-speed photography there and you know filming tank rounds and all kinds of cool explosives and stuff like that and he had like a wicked cool job he had a wicked cool job he had a wicked cool

job, yeah. And so I went up there and lived with him for a while, and then around 16, moved up to Ohio. My mom had moved up to Ohio. My stepdad was also in the Navy, and he had gotten out, and they started a business up in Ohio, and I went and lived with her up there and finished out high school in Ohio, 10th, or, yeah, 10th, 11, 12th grade, and then joined. the Navy from there. What was high school like? What sports were you playing? I was playing football, basketball, lacrosse, and yeah, that was it. Were you good? Were you a good athlete? I was a good athlete and I was also into some sports that weren't at our school. I was on a arm wrestling team and a dodge ball team like a traveling dodge ball team. A traveling dodge ball team. It was it was by

far my favorite. Like how many games would you play in dodgeball? In a day? No, in like a season. What's the season? The dodge ball season. Well, you know, there's practice, obviously. And if you take it serious like we did, we practice like three times a week.

And then we would travel on the weekends for tournaments. What balls do you use? Some leagues are different, but mainly it's those kickballs that you see. So like the red rubber ones? Yeah. How many people are on the team each side? There was, it was like six or seven people per team, and then we had like a couple substitutes, you know. In case there was injuries.

Injuries, you know, just like any other sport, man. You had your first string, starters. And then you, but you didn't wrestle. I did not wrestle. I didn't wrestle. And you, I didn't wrestle. I didn't run cross country. I didn't swim.

I didn't do anything in high school that would be useful in my ongoing adventures. Well, football, basketball. I mean, you're becoming an athlete. Yeah, I mean, yeah, for sure. Like, just in general, I would say that competition mindset, you know, that and just, Just, yeah, being an athlete overall, that was always something that was just ingrained in me. You know, both my mom and dad, they were really competitive, like, always had us in sports growing up my brother and I. And, yeah, I always loved the competition side of things, you know.

And I actually, like, hate working out still to this day. Like, I just don't really enjoy it. but if there's some sort of competition involved in it or, you know, competitiveness, that's what I really like. Sure. So you get done with high school. And you, what makes you join the Navy? Honestly, I was just bored.

I was living in Ohio and it sucked there. And there was just nothing there that I wanted. How long after you graduated high school did you join the Navy? A couple months. Did you go in the Dyefarer program to be in the teams or did you just want to be just in the Navy? No, I originally, I mean, it wasn't planned out at all. I was working three different jobs. I was a roofer, which I really, really loved.

That was a great job. And I worked at my parents, like they owned a deli slash convenience store kind of thing. I worked there, and I was a lifeguard at Calahari, and I was a surf instructor. You said Calahari? I don't even know what that. It's the world's largest indoor water park. Oh, okay. And they have waves there?

Yeah, I have a flow rider, like a couple of flow rider machines. Oh, the thing that shoots water up the plastic type thing? Yeah, it creates an artificial wave. So I was on the competition team, and I would, like, give people lessons on how to ride that thing. So between that and dodgeball, you were kind of dialed in for some action. That's right. That's a good setup. So you recommend if someone wants to get a career of special operations, they focus on dodgeball.

Arm wrestling and surfing. Awesome. Pretty much a formula for success. Formula for success. And so you're doing these jobs and you're not having a good time with whatever. I was, you know, not a very good studious student in high school. You know, high school was more of like a socialization for me. Like I really enjoyed going there to socialize.

I really enjoyed, you know, making friends. And I liked sports. And I was always, I always loved working and making money, you know, like school is just kind of in the way. I had kind of, you know, at the time I just had zero interest in any sort of classwork whatsoever. And I don't even understand how I somehow I had graduated. And then, you know, I was like, yeah, I'm definitely going to do something in life. I don't know what.

I'm assuming it'll be good, though. You know, I just don't know what it is. And my teachers were kind of in that same. mindset. Half of them were just like, man, you're hopeless. Like there's, you're just going to work at Burger King, whatever. And then the other halfs were just like, yeah, you're going to do something great. It's definitely not going to be in school. But, you know, who knows what it is. And I was just kind of in that, you know, glass half full. I was thinking the same thing. And I didn't know what it was, honestly. Like I said, I was roofing.

And I really loved roofing, but, you know, I was making minimal money. And I knew that that wasn't going to be it. So I was in the area. I knew that nothing around the area interested me. You know, there was nothing that I wanted to pursue around there. I was young. I was 18. You know, my mom and dad were both and my stepdad were all in the Navy at, at,

points in their life and, you know, had talked about the benefits of the military. My dad was always trying to get me to go in the military. And I just wasn't interested at all. And, yeah, that was never really even a consideration until quite literally like I was just bored. And the recruiter happened to walk in and catch me and was like, hey, you want to join the Navy? And I was like, sure, why not? And I was at first, I was going to do mastered arms. Like, I was like, oh, you know, I've always, I've always had, like, a kind of respect for police. My grandfather's a police officer.

My uncle is still a police officer. And that was something that I felt like, you know, it was a courageous job and a helpful, useful one or whatever, you know. And I figured that I could, I've always been real protective as well. So, like, I figured that job would kind of maybe be fitting for me. So he had asked me, you know, hey, yeah, you want to join the Navy? And I was like, okay. And then I thought, I'll go that route. And he was like, well, you look like you're in good shape.

Do you want to be a seal? And I was like, those sneaky guys, you know? The only thing I knew about seals was from that commercial where the, where the, they're on the beach or it's a scene and it's on the beach and the clouds roll over the moon and then they pass and there's footprints yeah whatever and so that's all I knew about Navy SEALs and I was like oh this guys what year is this this was 2007 jing so you're watching the wars are going on all through high school you're seeing all that stuff take place mm-hmm well 9-11 happened when I was in seventh grade yeah you were probably

boots on ground or something on there. Well, I mean, I was, I was, yeah, I had been in for like 11 years at that point. Because I joined in 90. I was born in 89. Yeah, yeah. So I'm a little bit older than you are, apparently. Yeah. So did you not, did you realize like, so this was your first kind of connection?

Because for me, when I was growing up, like every time some kind of, war event happened, I was all bummed out that I wasn't there because I was too young. And that's just the way I was, I was always thinking about that. I was always into the military, but you were kind of like not. I was the total opposite. Like I wanted nothing to do with, with the military. I wanted nothing to do with, like I'd never even thought about it. My dad was just, you know, he was in and he was a combat cameraman with dev group. So obviously he was, you know, really involved with with it. And anytime he would try and talk to me,

I'm just like, I'm not interested. I'm not going to join the fucking military. But you don't know what flip the switch? Just mega boredom? Yeah. Just, I just,

you know, I was like, well, worst case scenario, I know, I'm in for, in the Navy for four years. I'll go see the world a little bit.

I'll, you know, gain some life experience. And worst case, I get out and I'm fucking, 22. Yeah. Like, who cares?

I'm not going to college. I know that. You know, high school was, I barely made it through that. And just not because I was stupid, just because I just, man. Just wasn't your scene. Oh, my God. I'd rather do Hell Week 10 times in a row than write an essay, you know. So you get in the Navy and do you prepare at all, like for?

I had never run, like, further than a mile. and like all my sprint all my sports stuff was all sprinting I mean those dodge balls are only you know dodgeball courts are small yeah they're they're they're they're short so it's just I was always a really fast sprinter and uh that was kind of all I really cared about I didn't even I was also I also like now looking back how stupid I was and just how dumb you are at 18 like you think you really like no yeah when you're 18 you really like you're 18 you really like you're you're like, man, you know, you look back at when you're 10 and you're like, man, I know so much now. I just, compared to my seven-year-old self, I'm brilliant.

Compared to my eight-year-old self, like I didn't even know what I was doing. Now I'm a man, you know, I know what life's about. But at that point, obviously now I'm 30 looking back at that, I'm just like, man, you're so dumb. But I really was. And just really inexperienced with life, I never, like I said, run really further than a mile. I didn't even understand, like, that people did that. I'd heard about, like, marathons and stuff, but, you know, I remember when, you know, when I had heard that I had to run, like, a mile and a half for the PST, I was just like, what in the fuck? Like, why?

What? And then, like, I told my dad that I signed up for the SEAL teams, and I was like, yeah, I'm going to be a SEAL. And he's just, like, you have no idea what you just signed up for. I didn't even know I had to go to buds And then So he I was just like Yeah I'm gonna be a seal

What's wrong with that? And he He bought me the The 234 documentary And we sat down and watched that And I remember like Just watching the Four Mile time to run

And I was just thinking like Is that even possible? Like do people really do that? And I was just thinking like Jesus Christ like this is I'm going to have to do all of this shit Oh my God. I better start running. I better start training so did you start running and training? Yeah I mean I I went out and you know actually back up before I even saw that The first the first introduction I had to buds was I or Navy SEALs in general Once I signed the like I signed up I was like all right I'm going to be a Navy SEAL. I was like I'm going to be a Navy SEAL. I

I better do some research. So I went out and got Navy SEALs with Charlie Sheen, and I watched that. And that was my very first introduction to what Navy SEALs were. And I was just like, man, looks pretty intense. Pretty cool, though. And, you know, in the scene in that movie, they say it's buds, but it's obviously not, because it's, like, in the woods and there's, like, grenades going off. and they were like, they're like, Army crawling under barbed wire.

And he's like, this is buds, you know? Like, it was just like this crazy scene or whatever. And I was just thinking like, damn, I got to go through all that. All right. So I went out and bought some fucking camo pants. I bought some boots, like just leather boots. And I went for a run down my street. And I remember it was like a mile.

Or I did. I was like, I have to run a mile and a half. so I'm going to see how this goes. And I went and got those pants and got suited up. Fucking rain. And I was just thinking like, oh, man, this is going to be hard. And then my dad got the 234 documentary. And then that was just like, oh, okay, I really just have no fucking idea what I just signed up for.

And I was just thinking like, damn, that looks really hard. But I already told everyone that I was going to do this. And I was just kind of that, you know, that's one good thing about being 18 and you're just young and dumb and stubborn. And, you know, luckily I used the good of that to get through, I guess. So you get in the, I was going to say, you know, I was. My dive motivator was Mike Noss. Do you know him? Yes.

I know who it is. I don't know him personally. But, well, he's an old Vietnam Frogman. plank owner at Damnack and he came in and he's a tall guy and he walks with like a kind of a big limp because he had like a hip replacement. He still swims like a fish. And he actually taught me how to do the side stroke the day before my PST. So it was like pretty steep learning curve. Yeah, that's that is. I always tell people not to make decisions. when they're super emotional.

And so I'm going to start adding, don't make decisions when you're super just bored. Yeah. Yeah, you might end up at buds. So you show up there, you show up to buds, and you must have, you know, obviously you made it through. Was there any, what was it, what was tough for you in buds? Running.

Running was definitely, I mean, obviously that's like what you do the most of. And, man, it was just, I went from no running ever. to running my ass off just everywhere. And those timed runs, man, I was just fucking having a lot of conversations with Jesus on those runs and just, you know, giving it everything I fucking had just to make the cutoff on those runs. And then eventually I became like a pretty good runner just from doing it. And but yeah, I was for sure captain of the Goon Squad.

and but luckily all those fucking dodgeball sprints were paying off in the Goon Squad so it was it was nice in the Goon Squad I felt comfortable did you get rolled for anything in books yeah I got rolled for some I had real bad shin splints from from running from the lack of running previous and but other yeah got rolled dealt with that and like I said I picked up like from running so much I just kind of got good at it and I was like young so adapted well I guess yeah it's it pays to be young in buds in my opinion yeah from a physical perspective physical yeah for sure with like dealing with uh overuse injuries I mean because you're definitely gonna just they're obviously just gonna fucking ream your ass and then you have to get up and go yeah I was talking to uh one of the medical guys there who came from like a sports environment like the, I think the NFL. I think it was the NFL.

And do you remember the, I think it's Patelah Femoral Syndrome? Did you ever know anyone that got that there? Anyways, there's a bunch of people that get this, this, this, this, Patella Femoral Syndrome. You know, and he said, yeah, at Buds, I would see 10 cases

a week of Patella Femoral Syndrome. It's where your Patella like rubs against your, your femur or something. And he said, in the NFL, you'd see like one of these every year, maybe one a year. And so these guys that would come to Buds from a physical, what was an athletic trainer perspective would learn so much because they're just getting these

these bodies are just going through abuse like no other bodies. And so they see all those, all these common injuries that you get to your knees, your shoulders, your back, like that's what, you go to Bud's as an athletic trainer. You learn. And as a doctor, you learn so much about how to deal with these things because you see 10 times more than you would or more than you would anywhere else. Yeah, I believe it. But I've also talked to people who say, like I was young too going through buds. How old were you?

18. Okay. And so you get the mind of, hey, I just do whatever they tell them to do, you know. But there's some people that say, have told me they didn't think they were mature enough at 18 or 19 to go through buds. I for sure was not I don't want to say I wasn't mature enough to go through because obviously I did and I made it through however you say like what or ask like what my biggest struggle at buds was was definitely my maturity I mean physically like physically it was running like just I was never a long distance runner obviously sprinting I was fast as fuck sprinting and I was really strong on the law and like the boats, the boats on heads was extremely surprising to me.

I, like, I remember seeing it on the videos and thinking, like, okay, that's kind of weird. Like, why are they running around boats on their heads? And then I didn't think it was going to be painful because they're, like, inflatable, the rubber boats or whatever. And then when they put the thing on your head, I was just like, Jesus Christ, this thing is smashing my fucking neck. Did the instructors jump around in the boats

when you went through because they stopped doing it at some point. They would, like, some of the little guys would, like, jump and hang on the handles and shit like that when you're running. But, yeah, you definitely knew when they were on the boats because they got a lot heavier. They would what they would do when I went through, and they stopped doing this, which is a good thing.

They would be, like, the boats would be lined up and we'd have them in head carry, and the instructors would be in, like, boat one. And then they would just jump into boat two and then jump in about three. And I remember hearing when they would did that to me a couple of the times that they did it to me, I heard like this deep kind of inside my neck.

And I remember thinking, this is probably not good. And they stopped doing it, thankfully, because that's not healthy. So you actually used to be like six, too. I don't know if I got shorter, but I definitely took some damage, took some damage for sure. Yeah, the Boats on Heads was probably the most surprising thing to me of how, like, I just wasn't expecting it to be that bad. And, but like the LogPT, you know, I was always, I actually really enjoyed the LogPT. I think probably because from roofing, you know, I was always carrying those 80-pound bundles of shingles up the ladder.

And then, like, I was the young guy on the crew, so I was the shingle bitch for fucking three years. And, you know, everyone, everyone on my crew is in their. 40. So they, you know, I was the 15 year old when I came on the crew and just a young, strong kid, they took full advantage of it and just wherever they needed shingles on the roof, that's where I hauled them up. And so I was used to carrying, you know, that, the heavy load and stuff. Like I said, I felt strong. I felt really good on that stuff. And mentally I was like, I just was super competitive. And that's what really got me through, Buds,

was just that sheer competitiveness. Where did the maturity level, where could that have tripped you up? Were you like doing dumb stuff on the weekends? Were you? No, not really. Because, I mean, I wasn't even old enough to go drink or anything like that.

So it was more just kind of, not understanding well one like I was different I was different than most people there because like you said you wanted to be in the military your whole life and like you wanted to be a seal I'm assuming did you yeah I mean as soon as I kind of figured out what the seal teams were

yeah yeah so like like that and like just how you are you're very disciplined you're very you're very militant I would say and I would concur yeah I was like more of like a wild like free spirit kind of you know kid growing up and and I was not militant at all and so and I also like getting through boot camp was difficult for me

because of that as well you know just like I'm like why my my question was like why do we have to fold on a way like this or whatever we're literally spent all day undoing our bed and remaking it. I was like, what the fuck is the point of this? Like, it's such a waste of time. And, you know, obviously, it's all for a reason and design, but I just couldn't wrap my head around it. So that just lack of military bearing and lack of maturity

and understanding like why things are the way they are and, you know, the whole military structure, you just do it and you don't question stuff like that, you know. that was probably my biggest hang up, you know, just I was different than everyone. I was young. I was, I don't know, I didn't want to be a seal my whole life. You know, some of these people, like, this is like their dream and they've been training for it for whatever. And I'm just kind of here showing up. And guys are quitting and I'm not. And, you know, and like physically I was doing like a lot better than some guys who, like I said, it was kind of just like, well, I'm just here, whatever, doing this.

And other guys, it's like, this is everything to me. And, you know, so it's like, I. Check. So you get done with buds and you show up and where'd you go, Team 10? Team 10, yeah. Right on. And then, well, how was that checking into Team 10? It was cool.

By that point, you know, I kind of like, obviously I was like, all right, I'm a seal now and I had been in the in the pipeline for a while and kind of getting in the flow of things and the military and and stuff like that but yeah I was super excited to check in to team 10 and I originally I was going to go to team five and then my I told my family you know that I got orders to five and and they were all kind of bummed out because they wanted they're all in the East coast and They were like, oh, man, you know, we were hoping you'd come on the East Coast. And I was like, okay, I'll go to the East Coast.

And I thought it was, like, kind of cool, too, because it felt like a new, like a new chapter. Because, like, you know, the SEAL team won three and five and seven are right by the Buds compound. So it was like, you know, I'd been there and been in this scene for the last two years or whatever it was. and it was cool, felt cool to like go across the country and like check into a team. And, you know, I just felt like, like, this is it. This is a real deal. So it was super cool. I felt, felt good.

My troop was awesome. And what was your, what was your job in your first platoon? I was a heavy gunner for sure. A dub. A knuckle dragger. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's a classic new guy.

strong new guy guess what give him a pig you're a big strong new guy got something for you and i loved it yeah i i i embraced it i didn't think it was like a bad thing you know and what year is this now 2009 okay so you yeah you you went straight to the to the mark 48 no m60 for you that's that's that's that's nice yeah we shot 60s and stuff but no like like a fam shoot with 60s or something yeah and and there were 60s on like um v's and stuff like that and going through vehicle stuff.

So there was still a little bit of transition taking place. So you're a pig gunner, your first platoon. How was your first workup? It was awesome. It was definitely a good time.

What surprised you about like going through workup being in a seal platoon? What was different than what you thought it was? What was different from how it was for Charlie Sheen? You know,

it was it was a lot like the movie i'm just kidding it was it was it was great man i i i thought it was a lot of fun um we got to travel travel the travel the country that was the cool thing too about the east coast um the training sites were kind of all over all over versus the west coast it was kind of like the same song and dance like nile and and uh let's the other one you know what I'm saying. The training is like all the same sites. And so going to the East Coast, I got to see a bunch of new places.

And that was cool to me, just kind of seeing the world. And the brotherhood of like being in the troops and stuff and you're rolling around as a team, I thought that that was really cool. Was there anything that was more challenging? Like, you know, Some new guys, they have a hard time in their first platoon with whatever, with land warfare, they have a hard time with CQC.

They'll have a hard time with, you know, whatever. Sometimes it's like not easy. Sometimes, you know, you get a guy that can't dive very well or whatever. Was there anything that, was there any skill set that was hard for you or did you pretty much, which is, I would say most guys coming out of buds and SQT, like most of them are fine. Like most of them get, get, they can, they pick things up pretty quick. You know, they made it through all that crap. They made it through SQT where you're getting screened, right, again. So most of the time, but still, you'd still get guys showing up a platoon that, you know,

they wouldn't be comfortable with this or they wouldn't be great at that. Was there anything that was tough for you? I would say, like, everything was tough. I wasn't a master at anything other than my pig, you know. And so everything was somewhat challenging for me, but I also didn't really struggle with anything too much other than like my maturity. Like that, you know, I was, I checked into a SEAL team before I could even go into a bar, you know. And I didn't go to college or anything like that.

So I was, I was a 20 year old and a SEAL team, you know. So, yes, I had been through a lot as far as like Buds and SQT. you know, that kind of forces you to grow up to an extent. But seals like to party too. And I kind of, that was probably my biggest challenge was just my maturity and just kind of learning when to lock on and, you know, when it was time to like chill out. Did you ever get caught? Did you ever get in trouble?

Did you ever get arrested? I did get arrested. not in my new guy platoon. I got arrested in my, when I was in my second platoon, I got into a bar fight. These guys, it was actually three,

three dudes had just started mouthing off to one of my platoon members' wife. It was him and I and my girlfriend at the time and his girlfriend at the time, or wife, and we were coming out of the bar and they just, I had had a couple,

drinks and they had come over and said some disrespectful shit to them and you know i i just was feeling froggy a little bit and and uh didn't let it slide and ended up whooping their ass and beat up three people outside of a bar and got arrested but but your first platoon you you managed to keep your nose clean yeah or at least as far as the the actual law go the actual law enforcement goes yeah no trouble And then where was that? So you did your workup, where did you guys go on deployment to? Your first deployment. Afghanistan.

And when you were going to Afghanistan, did you go as a whole troop to Afghanistan? Yep. Yeah. All three of our platoons went. Yeah, it was kind of an interesting thing because it was in 2011. And I don't know if you're,

You said you got out in 2010. I did, yeah. Well, yeah, there was, I'm sure you heard about it. They wanted us to somehow get on the Army schedule. And so it was us and Team 7. And we ended up basically doing two deployments back to back and got synced up with the Army or something like that. I don't know all the, all the,

you know, mumbo-jumbo that actually took place, or why we did it. But they told us kind of right before, it was like two months before we left. They were like, hey, just kidding, you guys are going to go to Afghanistan, and we're going to need you stay there for basically a year. And we're like, oh, shit, okay. So we went there and it was an interesting deployment for sure because my platoon, we were the furthest outposts from any major base in Afghanistan. And, you know, we're basically roughing it the whole time we were out there.

Did you guys take over an outpost somewhere or did you guys establish one? We took one over that had just been established like literally a couple months ago, you know, So there was nothing there. We were sleeping in tents still. No running water. No, nothing like that. And then I think around month seven or eight of our deployment, we packed up and went 15 miles north

and set up a new site. So it was literally just fucking roughing it the whole time, you know, air dropping our food in. and no running water the whole time. And what type of ops were you doing? We were doing all kinds of stuff. And I was lucky enough to kind of, we got to, they shifted our guys around too.

So like we got to all kind of experience different things because we all had a different kind of mission set. And different, we were all three of our platoons were in different areas of Afghanistan. So I got to kind of do a lot of everything. So were you guys going out on patrol from your forward operating base? Was that? Yeah.

Yeah, pretty much daily. And you were interacting with the local populist type thing? Yep, yeah. Trying to establish relationships. Yeah, we did that for a little while. That was really dumb. It was dumb because you didn't feel like you made any progress, didn't make any connections.

Yeah, I mean, in my opinion, I just thought it was like kind of a waste of time. And I just felt like we could have been doing a lot more stuff or better stuff with our time and training and all that. And it was just like a super dangerous area to be in, you know. It was in Helman. And we basically just lived in a fucking minefield, you know. and it was just IEDs everywhere just as a constant threat.

So, you know, and we were going on these long patrols every day and, and all these, all these ops we were doing and hitting these villages that were just riddled with IEDs everywhere and, you know, getting contacted, you know, on, you're basically just stick out like a sore thumb there, you know, so. I mean, you know how it is overseas. I didn't feel real comfortable with that. Like, it sucked being in a minefield. Like, just every step, just please don't blow up, please don't blow, please don't blow, please don't blow up, please don't blow up, you know, for a year.

Yeah. Did you guys, did you guys hit any IEDs? Yeah. Yeah, we encountered a couple IEDs and so that was shitty. Yeah. and the enemy did you have a feel for who was bad and who was good when you'd go out? No, definitely not. There was, I mean, because like literally there was times where, you know,

we'd be in the village fucking shaking hands with people and then, you know, on the way out, get contacted, getting a firefight, and then fucking go back and look. and oh, it's the same guys that we were just shaking hands with that are fucking dead, you know. So it was hard to, it was really weird to like get ramped up and everything as these like, you get in this mindset, this warrior mindset, you know, that you're going to war and you're going to this fucking land where everyone is, you know, your enemy and blah, blah, blah. and then it's like, oh, just kidding, let's try to help some of these people or whatever. And the good in you is like, okay, yeah, I want to help people and stuff like that and do what I can to help these people out.

And then if they're getting bullied essentially by the Taliban or whatever, like that's not cool. but I just felt like it was it was really weird to be there and go there with that mindset and then have to fucking like try to help people and then when you try to help people they don't want your help and you know and they fucking shoot at you and shit like that so it's like and then you're expected to like go out and try and help these people again and it's I don't know it was just like a weird It's a weird dynamic And would you go

When you said you would move positions Were you going from like Would you like switch platoons And go to a different operating base? Yeah And then you'd spend some time there with them And then do operations with them And then after a little while

Go to a different one as well Yeah Yeah we rotated all of our guys Just to So we could all get You know Experience doing other things Like working with the command

or, you know, training the fit, training in FID or doing the VSO stuff. And yeah, it was cool. I enjoyed that just because it broke up the monotony of every day, you know, going on patrols, doing the same thing, seeing the same places or whatever, and dealing with the same threats. It just, it keeps you kind of from getting complacent, I felt like. Yeah, especially for the 11-monther. Yeah, so I was definitely happy to move and do new things and work.

And it was cool too because on the base that we were at in Afghanistan, it was literally like 100 yards by 100 yards. That was like our camp. It was like being in prison, you know, but worse. Because we're getting shot at too. and like if you when you go outside to go get your fucking food that they air drop in you know you're you're worried about stepping on iEDs like we found iEDs literally right outside of our compound you know so it was a constant threat always and uh and like i said like going to get our air drop it was just a lot of work too because not only it was like we were seal bees you know we had to like build our

We had to like build our camp and also like all the stuff that came with that like going and getting our our supplies that would air drop in and and being out there, you know, you only get ring routes and stuff. You only get air drops every once in a while. And so when when shit would come in, it was like all hands go work on this. And then also you got to prep your shit and get ready for the op tonight or tomorrow or whatever. and I remember just I have a video of one of our big airdrops coming in and you just see like three or four pallets just burn in and just explode. And you know it's like always like all the water bottle pallets are fine, but it's that one with like the goodies. You know, it's like, oh man, you know that's the one that burned in and it just fucking hits the ground explodes. You see like all the rippets or something, you know,

something that people were looking forward to just explode. And you're just like, fuck. I don't know. I just accepted that this was my life. So whatever. I wasn't thinking about the time too much. And then I just, you get into a rhythm, you know, and we got to go home for R&R.

That was cool. Took a little break. It was like bittersweet, you know. Go home for fucking two weeks. And like, oh, I've just been playing. in this minefield where everyone's trying to kill me for the last six months and come home for two weeks and like to normalcy and you're just like you know literally just fly straight from there no decompression or anything and then now you're back in normal society with your family and

and by the way you're leaving in 11 days to go back yeah and then don't get comfortable because we're going right back over there so that was like kind of like it was bittersweet and uh got back over there but that was cool too because it was like all right i'm fucking halfway through like it's downhill now you know so that it kind of definitely fired me up to to finish out but then uh towards the end we were there for all four seasons so we saw literally all four seasons is interesting and um by the end of it by the end of it uh i remember when the ring route came to pick me up to go out. I remember flying away from the base that we were at

and just thinking like I felt kind of sad. Like almost like when you move away from somewhere and like I've moved my whole life. I've moved around a lot. So I was like, damn, like this has been my home for the last year. You know, I'm kind of bummed to leave. But fuck this place.

I can't wait to go home. Yeah, I got kind of lucky because I had been in the Navy for a while. when I deployed to Iraq, and especially my second deployment to Iraq, where I was in Ramadi, and, like, I, you know, sometimes people will say, oh, I look back,

and I wish I would have appreciated it more. You know, people say that about certain parts of their life. I don't have that at all. Like, I 100% appreciated. Every single day I was there, I was like, this is, this is the best part of my whole life is right, is what's happening today right now, you know?

So I got kind of lucky in this, the fact that, you know, even talking to the guys that were new guys on, on that deployment to Robadi, they just kind of, they were like, from then on, they'd be saying, damn, you know, I thought that's what every deployment was going to be like. And it was, they just didn't have that same perspective of, hey, man, this is like this target-rich environment where we're getting to do what everyone's dreamed of doing their whole life and you're going to do it all the time that doesn't happen you know it doesn't happen like that usually you know it's hard and so I was pretty lucky in the fact that I I was I could appreciate it

yeah I know as far as the work went like I was as far as like being a seal and working there like that that was awesome you know and I was uh you know one of the biggest like I say concerns I had or or not even a concern was just like a question to myself was, you know, what, what, how am I actually going to react in combat? You know what I mean? Because everyone, everyone likes to think that they're ideally, you know, in a situation of shit popped off, you know, I'll be the, I'll be the guy who will, you know, hold, have my shit together and, and be that, you know, the rock or whatever, you know what I mean? And, uh, some people crumble, you know, and, I saw that as a seal.

Like that was kind of my, I was always a realist, you know. It was like, I've never been shot at. I've never been in a gunfight or whatever. So I definitely, you know, I feel like I'm not a coward. And I feel like I would step up and do what I got to do and perform. I feel like that, but I don't know it for sure. You know what I mean? And so that was definitely when it had.

happened and I, you know, and I did. I stepped up and felt very pleased with, with how that all went down and all the combat and everything that I had been involved with. Like, that was definitely rewarding to me, you know, like as a seal and as a man, just, and as a warrior, just like, okay, like, I felt legit, you know, I felt like fulfilled in that sense. So the work, The work was really good, but just as far as being in that environment, like, the IEDs was really like, the IEDs and the fucking, like, invisible enemy was kind of discouraging, you know. It was like it felt like we just had so much risk, you know, for not a whole lot of reward. and like which is different like I would say or I feel like in like Ramadi was like a different

just way different environment um but yeah yeah no that's that's the that's the way insurgents are supposed to fight right you're not supposed to see them they're just supposed to pick away at you the death of a thousand cuts you know indirect fire iEDs and snipers and they don't want you to ever see them and and that's what they want and just to slowly pick away because they don't care about human life they don't value human life and here we are you know every time we lose someone it's a it's a tragedy and they don't care if they lose guys or not they don't they don't care they don't care if the civilians get killed don't care about any of that and so that's why they have that's why they have an advantage in those situations a psychological

advantage is hey we we don't care if you kill us and by the way we know you care about your people and so we're going to pick away and hopefully you're never going to see us and we don't care we're going to blow you up and we don't care yeah that was pretty apparent I mean because a lot of the IEDs that went off were you know

local villagers stepping on you're triggered by civilians you know and then that just happened all the all of the damn time and and we would we would help them you know

we would aid the wounded and stuff like that and they'd like get pissed at us and we're like we didn't plant that shit you know like get mad at them not us yeah that's that that insurgency thing is but yeah and like you know it was it was just super frustrating to me like uh it was super frustrating to me dealing with like the politics involved with war and um you know i felt like we absolutely could have done things things to give us more of an advantage, but it seemed like they were more concerned with politics and shit like that, you know, as more than more than like the safety of us. And I just felt like we could, you know, there's no reason why we should be going out in the

daylight, period. You know, we train, like, why not fight like we train? Oh, because you guys got locked down from doing stuff at night. right? Is that right? We got to do night shit, but we also did a lot of day shit. And I, you know,

to me it was just like, why the fuck are we doing this? Like, we have night vision. Why are we going out during the day? Did you have Afghan forces with you? Sometimes. A lot of times we did. Yeah.

We had to work a lot in Ramadi in the daytime. And the main reason why we worked, well, there's a couple big reasons why we worked in the daytime in Ramadi, which as you just pointed out was a huge tactical disadvantage compared to being out at night where we can literally see and the enemy can't.

I mean, it's, but in Ramadi, you know, we had to work with Iraqi soldiers who didn't have night vision. So they didn't even have flashlights. They would have like one flashlight for every four people. And we'd eventually got them flashlights and stuff. But anyways, it was a problem because to go out at night with them, it was they were blind. And so now you're like at a, you're at the same disadvantage.

because you're trying to, you got people that can't see, mixed with people that can see, and they're not getting anything out of it. They're not improving their skills at all. And they're just horrible. Yeah, and they were not good, not good. And so that was one reason was to take them out in the daytime. To get them to operate, we had to go out with them in the daytime.

And the other big one was the enemy knew that we owned the night. And so the enemy in Ramadi, they didn't come out at night. They came out in the daytime. So if you wanted to kill them, you had to go out when they were. when they were moving. And so that's when we went out. And, you know, we did both. And we did a ton at the night as well.

And also, you know, we'd take advantage of the night to get in good positions, you know, when, and then during the daytime, they would come out to fight and, you know, they'd get it. Yeah, we had, we had, we were working with the commandos and they had night vision. But, like I said, they were just terrible. And, like, one of them almost shot me.

on an op, we were actually in a helicopter flying to target, and it was one of their heavy gunners. And it was around midnight, and we were flying in a Chinook to the target. And I was just kind of nodding off, just trying to catch a little nap on the ride to the op, and it's pitch black in the helo obviously and all of a sudden it's just, you know, like four or five rounds crack off and it was the guy next to me and thank God he had his barrel down

and like literally just shot like four or five rounds like less than six inches from my feet and there's just holes in the bottom of the bird and shot the comms out of the helo and everything. and at that point I was just like you know I was just kind of used to shit being shitty and just reached over and took the rounds out of his gun and just that was it

safe as weapon yeah and just like come over comms like yeah fucking commandos AD you know and everyone's just like whatever but so then we changed like all right no more commandos rolling hot in the birds you know on the way to target target And so we had changed that. So then the next one we did, we fucking got to, we got to our target, bird landed, get out and do our formation.

And all of a sudden, and it's like a total brownout, you know, because Afghanistan is super dusty and everything there. And the helo lands, we're all getting out. We're in our formation. And it's total brown out. all of a sudden we hear fucking rounds going off because the dudes loading their pigs, like all of a sudden had a runaway gun or whatever. We don't know if we're getting contact. Like you can hear it's outgoing, but like why?

Why is there outgoing fire when we're infilling? You know, are we getting contact or what's going on? And it's just these guys are fucking stupid with their weapons. And yeah, so it's always always something fun. Always good. So you wrap up that deployment and come back to come back and roll into your next platoon. Yeah. Come back and roll into the next platoon.

And I always wanted to. How was that coming home? Now you're home. You did the two weeks in the middle. How was the transition when you got home? It was, it was rough. I was definitely dealing with some PTSD. I would say.

And I was definitely kind of angry. I was angry. It was weird, weird emotions. Because I kind of was kind of pissed off at like America. Like, not America as a whole, but like I felt like the politics, you know, like I said earlier. I felt like they really cared more about, or they just didn't really give a shit about our safety. I felt like, you know, it's one thing, like, obviously we're doing a dangerous job,

but why on earth are we not giving ourselves every advantage that we are capable of? You know, like the night vision and stuff like that. And a lot of times we would capture people, who we knew were bad, you know, talking to our Intel guys, and they're like 100% like this dude is a fucking terrorist. Like he's a bad dude. Like everyone in his phone, you know, they rip apart their shit. And like every one of his contacts are bad, you know, like this guy's definitely an IED maker, you know, whatever.

And so we've got these guys captured, but then we have to try. turn him into the Afghan government, which we also know is corrupt. And then all of a sudden these dudes are out on the streets again in a couple months' time and making IEDs that, you know, me or my brothers could step on and fucking, that's a wrap. And, you know, Caleb Nelson was a seal that died on our deployment from our team. And it's just kind of, you know, life and death and war, it just puts things in a perspective. And it really made me angry that, you know, like Caleb couldn't come home because of an IED. And, like, we're letting these people go.

And I just felt like we weren't being utilized fully and like it was costing us. And so I was like really angry about that. And then also just kind of being in that environment for a long time, just different, you know, different mentality. And then coming home to America and like people just don't understand how good it is here. And it's like a fucking fairy tale, you know, and trying and listening to people talk and complain about, about shit here and I'm just like

you don't even have to you don't even you just walk down that sidewalk and didn't even give a fuck where you stepped like you didn't even care because you're not worried about anything you're not worried if there's an IED there like you have running water you took a shower today you fucking I had to burn my own shit you know

so I was just like a lot of anger dealing with that and I was drinking a lot like and I also felt like I felt like seals were the only ones that kind of understood and got it and then also being over there in Afghanistan I saw you know Kandahar the main base in Kandahar was like a fucking it was like a little town you know there's like flag football leagues and shopping and TGI Fridays, people having birthday parties and shit like that. And, you know, that's where, that's where, like, Tim McGrough flies in to do the

concert for the troops and shit like that, you know. And it's like, oh, is this where we're staying? Eating like kings, you know? And they're like, no, no, no. You're going out there. So then, you know, that's where I was. And that's where me and my boys were, you know, living in the suck. living, doing some serious fucking shitty living, you know, and working a job that was dangerous

as fuck every day. And then just seeing that kind of shit, like, I don't know, I just, I felt like before I had gone overseas, I was like real, like, thank you for your service to everyone I saw, you know, and afterwards I was just kind of the opposite. it. And I was like, fuck all these motherfuckers, man. So I was just disgruntled and whatever. And, and, you know, I'd hear people talk about PTSD or this or that. And I'm like, what the fuck are you, what are you afraid of? You know, you were on a main base that, like, it's not even a thing. Like, you didn't experience war. But that was, like, just kind of immature. at the time and like like I said me being just kind of disgruntled and um dealing with that and I

was drinking like heavily uh and I was just a super aggressive person and it wasn't like a good it wasn't good for my friends and family like people I cared about or whatever and like I said I felt like seals were kind of the only ones that understood and then even amongst seals I felt like only the ones who who had to live so shitty like we did like our platoon you know no running water for a year and like like just living in that environment was super rough and I felt like they were the only ones who understood but then again it's like I just spent a year with these assholes in a hundred by a hundred foot you know place I don't want to see them you know

And so I just kind of felt alone a little bit, you know, and whatever, dealt with that. Got through that and doing better now. And I was like kind of disgruntled towards people claiming PTSD and all this kind of shit for years after that. And then actually some random, this random chick at a dinner I was at, she was in the army or something like that. And she was talking about PTSD and I was just thinking like, Jesus Christ, what the fuck are you? What is it?

You know, and I kind of said my viewpoints on it. And she was like, well, you know, fear is relative. and, you know, like, you were, you were seriously trained and stuff for war and to be in that environment and, you know, some people weren't and, like, fears relative, like this, like being in a gunfight to you, you know, and versus, like, just being in that country, like, could be the same amount of fear or more for that person. And I was just kind of like, you know, hmm, I never really thought about it. way. Okay, I'll change my mind. Yeah, well, war is different for everybody. And it's, I remember my first

deployment to Iraq, we, we, we travel a lot and we went to a lot of different places. And so we'd go from, like, the incredible palaces that had been taken over that had subways and Starbucks. And then we, you know, the next day we'd be out at some outstation somewhere. There'd be an ODA team, just living in, you know, the most horrible living conditions. And then the next day, you'd be with some random Marine Corps company out in some other forward operating base and again they're just living like in hell and then you come back to another another like main fob and it's all luxurious and nice and I mean it just it kind of is what it is for sure you know it just kind of is what it is and that actually makes sense what that female said about you know hey it's different people are there they're there for different

reasons you know like we joined the seal teams because what we want to do is go out and go on patrol with a machine gun, that's like 100% of why you join the SEAL teams. Someone that goes- You're hoping for a gunfight. You're praying for war. Yeah. And so- I remember like being out there, man. I remember my very first op when I, we flew into this, to this village.

And I remember being like super nervous and like, holy shit, I'm a fucking Navy SEAL and I'm actually going on my first mission. Like, holy shit. And I'm just thinking like when we land, we landed at like 3 a.m. or something. And we offset way far away. But I was thinking like it's going to be guns blazing as soon as this helo lands. So I jump out the helo and I'm just like full-blown ready for war. Like whatever.

Bring it on. Let's go. Where's bin Laden? And it was just pitch black, quiet. And it sat there for fucking hours. you know, until the sun came up, nothing happened. I was like, God damn it. I was so disappointed, you know.

Like I was looking forward to like war. And then, you know, obviously we got, we got plenty. But I, yeah, I remember just being real antsy to get in a firefight and, you know, to do what I've been trained to do and put my training to the test, you know. And, yeah, it's different for other people who are not. Experiences may vary. there's no doubt about that so did when you went to

when you got home and you got put into a new platoon did you guys keep a core group of guys from your from your previous platoon together or was it like a brand new yeah no we we had guys that stayed and some went you know to trade it and some screened and

standard turnover deal standard shit few core guys stayed together four or five or whatever yeah and then you guys got a new chief and a new OIC yeah assistant platoon commander yeah yeah that was man god thank god i i am so i so do not miss having fucking 20 bosses

you know in the military and then every you know at the drop of a hat it can change and then all the sudden it's like nope new flavor we're uh now we're you know it's like oh jaco's now our fucking commander so we're all waking up at 4 30 and going to pt it's like what the fuck when did this happened this is bullshit Check. And so you get, you do another workup. Yep. And I, I'd always wanted to be a dog handler.

Oh, sweet. Yeah, and I tried to volunteer to be a dog handler as a new guy. And they said no, because, you know, they want you to. You're a new guy. Yeah, they want you to, here's your dog. His name's 48. And make it bark. So, yeah, now I got to do the dog handling thing.

and I was super, super excited about that. And it was, it was honestly such a great time. I had a badass dog, and I was his first handler. And, yeah, it was, it was super cool because, you know, well, one, I was a one platoon wonder, so I'd already kind of gotten that Afghanistan, gotten some combat under my belt. And, you know, I was the classic.

worst the worst guy in the teams is a one platoon wonder and uh so i was full blown just one cruise wonder you knew everything 100% and uh and i got a fucking dog so watch out my dog was super cool and um they like uh there the

there was six of us that went over to work with the dogs and we all got along really well and uh and And that was super cool because now you're not a new guy, finally, you know. And I mean, even on our deployment in Afghanistan, we were still fucking doing new guy shit. Oh, yeah. You're a new guy. You're a new guy. I couldn't fucking believe it.

I'm like, we literally, they made us shovel rocks one time. Like a whole like dumpster or a dump truck full of rocks. And they just, we just move. it from one pile and just 10, over like 10, 15 feet to the right and we just moved the pile of rocks to this make a new pile, 15 feet to the right. And it was a disciplinary thing. It wasn't, you know, all the new guys, your attitude's not good. And we're just like, are you fucking serious?

Like, we were just in a firefight with you. Like, you know, we're not like, we're expecting to like be boys now. And they're like, shut up new guys. Yeah. shovel rocks. And we're just like, God damn it. And we were like literally having to burn shit, you know, burn our own shit. We had we had barrels that we had wrapped debt cordon around and cut in half and filled with diesel fuel.

Those were our shitters, but they needed burned. So when the new guys, you know, when we didn't have the best attitude. Our attitudes weren't up to par. We shoveled rocks and burned shit. So I was definitely happy to not be a new guy anymore. But anyway, yeah. So I was a one-between wonder, had a dog, and got to go through another workup with the dog. So that was super cool.

And got to go through dog training school and learn about the dogs. and unfortunately like right right before it was we were on like pre-deployment leave and they had told us like hey change of plans we're going now we're going to youcom so we don't need the dog anymore and I was like fuck man this isn't like a piece of equipment I mean that's essentially how the navy looks at them they are they are equipment but you know obviously it's a dog and you you form this like super strong bond and attachment with them just like they're your pet and uh my dog was super awesome and i'd worked with him so much that you know it was like a robot it was like a it was so cool and um i was fucking so pissed off when they just dropped that on us and it's just like yeah

they hand the leash over to someone else and yeah so did that and uh then went to you you come and and you know a lot of guys were fucking super pissed off that we were going to you come and you know I was definitely looking forward to using my dog and and you know doing that in Afghanistan but you know that is what it is you you know I definitely knew that there wasn't I didn't see any value in just bitching about it and it seemed like that was like the common thing was just, it seemed almost like if you weren't bitching about it, then you were looked at as a turd. And like if you, you know, if you weren't bitching louder

than the guy next to you, then you're, you're, you know, oh man, I'm so disappointed. We're not going to Afghanistan. Yeah, me too. I'm super disappointed. Like, yeah, well, I can't even sleep at night. Well, I don't even want to fucking go, you know, like, you know, it's just. Yeah, I just realized just shed some light to everyone.

So when you deploy in a seal platoon or a seal troop, you can deploy different parts of the world. Sometimes you deploy to places like Iraq and Afghanistan, which as we just kind of discuss, that's where everybody wants to go. Well, 95%. Well, you never know what the real number is because there's some people who don't want to go. But there's the attitude most guys want to go and they want to go to fight. But there's also you have to deploy to other parts of the world where there's no war going on. You might just deploy to the Pacific or you might deploy. In this case, U-COM is for European command, so that's going over to Germany and doing things out of Germany in different parts of Europe.

And it's definitely not a high-threat environment. And so, yeah, and that's the way it goes sometimes. There's a mission that has to be done, and it's a different kind of mission. You're going to build relationships with other countries, and you do these exercises and do training events, but it's not generally what guys are excited to do in the SEAL teams. So there's always, you know, I always get asked that question when I go and talk to SEALs is, hey, my guys are going here. How do I keep them on? You know, how do I keep them engaged when no one wants to do it or they don't care about it? And it's like, yeah, you got to work through that.

It's definitely, it's definitely a challenge because, you know, I would imagine, especially if you know, like, that you're going to Ucom and then starting that workup. because you still have to go through the workup and train as if, you know, your fucking life depends on it and that you're going to war and, you know, that you're the elite, you know, warrior and you have to be ready for anything. So, like, obviously our training is developed around that. Yeah.

But then having to keep up that motivation, like, it's one thing when you're like, fuck, dude, this training sucks. And it's tired. It's hot. I'm, you know, I'm like fucking covered in shit or whatever. And I've got to hike 12 miles carrying this thing. And it's like, well, we got to do it, though, because we're going to fucking war.

Like, this is serious, you know? But then it's like, I'm going to Yukon, man. Why the fuck are we even training today? You know what I mean? But I don't know. So I didn't really have that attitude, though. I was kind of excited to, you know, I had just gotten, we had just done that. that year deployment to Afghanistan and it was, you know,

my platoon was the one that was really, really shitty, shitty living. The other two platoons were in nice bases that they were like had awesome gyms, like good food and stuff like that. And, you know, so I wasn't too terribly upset about it. Obviously, like everyone wants to go work and kill bad guys like a champion. But, you know, when you got to do that, and it is what it is, you might as well fucking enjoy it. That's why I feel. Might as well make the most of it.

At what point did you start Jiu-Jitsu? I started Jiu-Jitsu actually in Buds. That was my introduction to Buds. One of our Buds instructors was he was interested in Jiu-Jitsu and liked it or whatever. So as a punishment one day, we had to do wet and sandy jiu-jitsu, like introduction to jiu-jitsu. And like a lot of guys were not enjoying it because, one, if you've never done jiu-jitsu, you're 100% going to get fucked up by anyone who has done it. And we were wet and sandy, so it was like just cold and wet and miserable and sandpaper,

like grinding on each other, you know. But I actually really enjoyed it. I was like, holy shit, this is pretty cool. And one of the guys, there was two guys in our class that were both really high level wrestlers, like in high school. And they were probably like on a blue belt level, you know. They were probably like 135, 145 pounds. And at the time, I was around 185, 190 pounds. I had never done jiu-jitsu ever or wrestled or anything like that.

And I always punched, you know, I knew I punched hard because, been in a lot of fights, like street fights and shit and bar fights, but, or at that point, sorry, I wasn't bar fights, it was like high school fights. Dodgeball fights. Right? I did get in a dodgeball fight once. No bullshit. And so anyway, these little guys just tied me in a fucking knot.

And I was just so impressed, like, because looking at these dudes, I would be like 100% I will fuck this guy up in a fucking knot. fight. And we, you know, they were like, all right, no striking, no, no punching, but we're going to grapple. And I'm like, okay. And we're grappling and they're just completely fucking me up. And I was like thinking, oh my God, if these little itty bitty men can tie me in a knot like this and just make me helpless, like imagine what I could do if I learned this. So I started rolling with one of my friends who was like six, six. to 240 pounds at the time and just super aggressive.

And he was probably around a blue belt level of knowledge. Maybe not quite a blue belt, you know, but he knew definitely more than I did. And we, you know, he was really aggressive too. And, and he was like all about rolling. So we would roll no-gi and he would just constant. This was where? This is in buds or? And Buds and then SQT, you know, Buds was the introduction to it.

And I was like, whoa, I fucking love this as cool. And then I started talking to one of my classmates who was also into it. And, you know, he had done, he had done some training before the Navy. And like I said, he was around a blue belt level. So when you got to Team 10, did you start training immediately at one of the academies? No. I didn't start training at one of the academies until after Afghanistan. I came back.

And because one of the guys, one of my, like my C daddy, he was, he was a purple belt at the time. And we would roll on occasion, you know, and he would be like, and he would tell me like, man, you have like great, you know, aggression and ability and all this shit. But you got to go to an academy and learn, you know. And I had only learned just from that guy that dude beat my ass over and over. and he would literally like just just fucking get on top pressure grind arm triangle you know and he'd be like all right man you know i got on top you know i fucking arm triangle i squeezed like that don't let me do that again i'm like all right got it yeah try harder try harder you know you you know you you got to do something you're not doing anything you know what i mean so it was one of those so uh i had gotten

pretty good at just getting my ass kicked and dealing with a big large human or whatever. So then when I actually showed up to an academy, I had been doing that for a couple of years, you know, with him and never put on a ghee or anything like that. But then afterwards, yeah, he was like, you got to join gym. So I joined a gym, put on the ghee. And then really like, that's when my jiu-jitsu, I would say, really started my journey.

And that was in 2012. And did you have someone to train with on your U-com deployment? Yeah, I trained with my C-Dady. He was there. And I trained in U-COM like we were obviously going to different countries. So I would go and hit up different gyms and the different countries. And then all the other countries, seal teams, you know, that we worked with. There's always someone who's into combatives, you know.

So I would basically just find out who that guy was. Who wants to get some. Yeah, who wants to get some. And then we'd roll the mats out and find out. fucking train and and I was trying to get guys into jiu jitsu back then and I was telling you know it's a great workout and people are just look at me like that's not a fucking workout and you know you're not lifting weights you're not running you're not I'm like dude it is a workout for sure and it's you know one that that I thought the reason I liked jiu jitsu specifically was because it was like

a deadly martial art you know I could fucking choke you and like you're tapping, you're asking me like, please don't kill me. You know? And that's what I thought was fucking cool about it. That is definitely one of the cool things about it. You know, like there's times where, I don't know, yeah, like we're gunfighters. I get it. But your first line should be you.

Like my body, what can I do with my fucking vessel that I was brought into? this universe with like versus you if I don't have a weapon if I don't you know it's just me and you yeah one-on-one like let's yeah and I mean I got to see like over and over again just guys that didn't know how to didn't know anything and they'd get in a simple prisoner handling situation and wouldn't be able to handle someone and the only thing that they would know to do is like bludgeon them in the head which is cool that's fine I get it but when you bring that person into the detainment facility and they're freaking all jacked up and then it turns out that they're not the person you were looking for or whatever and and that just doesn't that's just not that's just not cool and it's not

it's not tactically the best thing to do because you don't have the control I mean you can't count on punching someone or hitting them in the head you can't count on that solving the problem whereas jiu jihitsu it's like yeah no I have this human under control whereas you can you know You've punched people before that you've nailed them and they shook it off like it didn't even happen You know the whole thing with like muzzle strikes I've seen I've had guys I mean I've muzzle struck plenty of people but like I've had guys that I've seen put the craziest Most aggressive muscle strike on a dude and have the dude bleeding yeah but like still fighting Yeah, and you think adrenaline's a fucking hell of thing and so so yeah from

Especially when people are in fear for their life. Oh, yeah, definitely. And they hate you, and they hate your society. And they're a jihadist. It's like, yeah, that muzzle strike, if it doesn't knock them out, which, sure, it is possible. But the idea that that was just going to stop someone in their tracks 100% of the time was completely ludicrous. Now, with Jiu-Jitsu, at least you're going to have some control, more control. And even that's not 100%, you know, because you've got someone that's really small,

get someone that's really big and depending on your skill level, there could be issues there. But yeah, so you finally started training at a school. Yeah. 2012 and then you just dove in all the way. Yeah, I started training at a school in 2012 and started competing in Jiu-Jitsu. You know, I really, once I joined a school, I learned more in six months than I did in four years of Nogi rolling with my buddies. I mean, that it was just the blind leading the blind, essentially, like, who knows the most today? And it's like, you guys are all fucking wrong. We're all teaching each other wrong shit,

you know what I mean? So I learned more than six months than I did that whole time. And so at that point, I'd really like fallen in love with Jiu-Jitsu. And I started competing all the time and was doing really well because I was competing as a white belt, you know, but I'd already had a shitload of grappling experience, you know, with fucking big, strong dudes who are just fucking me up. But now, like, now I'm the big strong guy and I know a little bit. And I've been in, like, hard situations on the mat. You know what I mean?

And then obviously just the team guy just will to fight, you know, that's always a different level. You can tell when you roll with a team guy. Even when a team guy is brand new at Juj. Jitsu, they're still going to be, you can just tell that they're different because their will to fight is, is generally higher. Yeah. So anyway, I started competing a lot and doing really well and then started fighting and

doing really well in that as well. And then, you know, that led me to what I'm doing now. And then you actually took over, when you came home from your Ucombe deployment, you took over the combatives program? Yeah. Yep. I took over the combatives program. that was something that, you know, I felt like kind of lacked in the SEAL teams.

You know, I was very shocked at that. I was surprised at that. You know, obviously, we're the SEALs are the best in the world, you know, at what we do. And, you know, we're gunfighters and all that shit. but I imagined that our hand-to-hand combat, you know, like everyone thinks like, oh, fucking seal, he must, you know, tap me on the shoulder and I'll die, you know? And it's true, just for everyone who's listening. It's definitely true.

But I hadn't gone to that school yet, so I was, like, confused as to why that wasn't a school or whatever. So anyway, I felt like with, at this point, I was, I was, uh, competing quite a bit and having having some pretty good success in the fight MMA Jiu Jitsu world. And I'd also had, you know, real world experience, you know, a lot of real world experience dealing with prisoner handling and stuff like that. And, and I just felt like I felt like I could bring, I felt like I could do a good job at leading the combative. So, um, I took that on board and they gave me a shot. And I rewrote the curriculum for combatives that we used on the East Coast.

And it was really good, you know. And I went into it with the operationally focused mindset. You know, not if you're doing it, I'm all about jujitsu. I love jiu jitsu. However, if you're doing a triangle choke on target, something's probably gone terribly wrong. Way wrong. You know, but it's definitely.

not a bad thing to know jujitsu you know what i mean especially as as an operator you're dealing with human beings and you're not just you know you're not just going to go in and fucking kill everyone on target you know there could that happen yeah absolutely but is that going to happen probably not and you're going to have to deal with human beings and you know anything from just marshalling them to a full-on fight for your life is combatives related, you know. So I covered all of that in my program and, and I really focused on um, basic simple things that you could remember during a time of stress, you know, like, you're not going to remember 12 steps to an arm bar or something like that when you're in a

situation and you need it. You know what I mean? Especially in a combative situation overseas. Like, Like, that's, your adrenaline is going to be going like crazy. It's going to be fast. You need something simple, effective, and that, you know, that you can remember easily. And it's also, you know, how it is, like, in a workup, you're getting fed through a fire hose, essentially. There's so much shit you're learning and you're expected to be proficient and, like, perfect at all of it before you go out the door. So our combatives, we didn't get a whole lot of time. You know, it was like a two-week thing.

And so I really focused on developing techniques and things that, you know, and would also be effective, effective towards your enemy or your person that you're dealing with, but also mitigate risk to the operator, you know. Like, muzzle strikes are great because you can muzzle strike 100 people in a row in your hands, feel fine, you know? You're not worried about breaking your hands. And your weapons in control the whole time, you know. So, you know, that was kind of my focus,

was operationally focused mindset. And, you know, and on the West Coast, I felt like, from what I had seen going out there and working with those guys, it was a lot of, I felt like more guys were interested in combatives, but it was more of like a sporty kind of thing. Like they were up in the fight room doing jiu-jitsu

and stuff like, that and which which I thought was great like I said it's better it's definitely better to to you know have it not need it then need it not have it and so I think that it was good that guys were doing that but I didn't think that it was operationally focused enough you know like I don't think that you should be training combatives and PT gear you know like I had my I like the program that I set up was all scenario driven and it was all like trained like you fight you you know. You know, so in your, in your camis, in your boots, with your gear, you know, because handling someone in PT gear versus handling someone in, you know,

full kit is totally different as well. Yeah, yeah. Well, there's, it's, you know, I was, the, the discussion that used to happen a lot with all this stuff, because believe me, I was in this discussion for a long, long, long time. You reach or you get a ton of fucking pushback. People are super, people are super emotional about combatives. About combatives. And, you know, I would always, like, I wasn't, I wasn't as emotional as I, I wasn't very emotional about it.

But for me, it was just like, hey, guys need to know how to do this. This is, this isn't about emotion. This is about just the facts of being ready to be prepared, being prepared on the battlefield. That's what you need to be. And, you know, one of the things that people would say was, you know, the, like the speed shooting contests, you shouldn't do that because it'll take away from your operational capability. Okay, I get it. However, who does better on the range? The guy that's like a hobby shooter too and then goes out to whatever CQC, he's drilling nails all day long.

Same thing with parachuting. Like, oh, okay, so I skydive, whatever. I'm a skydiver on the weekends and I like to go down and have a ton of jumps. I have 2,000 jumps with my slick rig. How do I do when I put a combat equipment on? I do awesome. I'm way better than like a guy like me because I wasn't like a recreational skydiver. Whenever I put equipment on, it was like, it was a, yeah, I had to pay attention.

Whereas the guys that were good skydivers in the civilian side, they were good. Same thing with like, oh, who's going to do better in a grappling match? a guy that wrestled in high school with his gear on or a guy that didn't you know has his gear on it's like it doesn't matter you get certain skill level and you're going to do great and that's just the way it is now what you can't do is just say oh well we're never going to train with gear on because there are certain you know it's like saying hey we're never going to train with the ghee if you if someone never trained with a ghee before and they go against someone with a ghee it depends on how long that person's been training with a ghee for because you know Hey, no gey and ghee have all kinds of similarities. They have all kinds of similarities. They also have some differences. And depending on how much you do of each is where you're going to kind of shake out, which one you're better at. But there are so much crossover between ghee and no gey, between skydiving on the weekends and skydiving in the teams and shooting on the weekends and shooting in the teams.

The way I always looked at it was train more. train train all the time with everything you know as much as you can and that's how you get better at things but yeah that combatives thing was

and still is it still is I know it's it's it's hard it's hard to change it's a it's a taboo thing for some reason and and it totally depends

on who's who's at the head of the table yeah you know what their flavor is what their take is on it and if the guy you know is like you

or me and then it's like hey we're all gonna fucking we all need to know this we all need to do it and then other guys come in they're like ah that shit's stupid we don't need that yeah and i was i was when someone would say guys should be working on shooting i'd say you i totally agree absolutely you know give us a range you know in the building and we'll do that in the building because that's without question our primary weapon system and you know no doubt i you want to be a great shot for sure guess what how many hours are you going to shoot today I mean are you going to shoot 22 hours a day because you're gonna have some time at some point we go you know what let's get some other skills in here you know we might as well know

know and like you said earlier you can't just go you don't just go on target and shoot everyone there's a there's a female you know Dave Burke who's one of the guys at Ashland Front good deal yeah he he has a he has a story that he tells about the first time he came face-to-face with this like Iraqi one woman that did not want him in the house. And he's, you know, whatever, a 18-year Marine at this point. And he didn't know what to do. Yeah.

And it's like, yeah, you need to train. You need to train to handle those situations. And a lot of people, you know, people are unpredictable. They are just totally unpredictable. And especially in a situation where they don't know, like a bunch of people with guns and body armor just busted up in their fucking house. Like, you think that person's going to be, like, just cool as a cucumber or calm? Like, I don't know.

And then when you put hands on people, too, people freak the fuck out. And, you know, and you don't need to just muzzle strike everyone. Like you said, like, if you do that, you're going to get shut down real quick. You know what I mean? And you should be, as an elite warrior, you should be expected, or at least I expect, people to handle themselves. Like, and you shouldn't let this fucking Iraqi woman just walk all over you or fucking flail around because, like, you don't know what to do.

I can't muzzle striker. I can't shoot her. So what do I got to do? You know what I mean? And if you've never, and that's just like a woman, but if let a, now you have like a fighting age male or something. And, you know, oh, if he resists, I'll just kill him. No, that's not the case always, you know?

It's definitely not. like and uh you know it's you definitely don't want the first time that you're handling a human being like that to be overseas when it's real and they can you know very easily get to your shit on your kit and you know it can be a bad day and especially like I tell people you know just think of like muzzle muscle discipline and awareness you know like when you have your gun even at high ready and then you're marshalling someone and they freak the fuck out now all all of a sudden you've got a hot weapon like going around the room. It's just shit that there's so much things that you need to think about.

And the more you do it, the more comfortable you're going to be with it. And that was kind of my mindset towards it. At what point did you realize you were going to get out? I wasn't sure. I was fighting and stuff and I was just kind of doing that as for fun, as a hobby on the weekends. and competing and stuff like that. And then I had gone out and trained at Blackhouse with some UFC fighters.

And I had always looked at the UFC. You know, I was always a fan. And I enjoyed fighting and stuff. But I'd always looked at those guys like they were kind of superhuman or like it was like the NFL of fighting. Like those guys are genetic freaks or whatever, you know what I mean? When you think of someone in the NFL, you're just like, man, must be nice to be born like that, you know, or whatever. But fighting is kind of a unique thing where, I don't know, anyone can do it.

And as long as you just put in the work, you know what I mean? So, and being a genetic freak helps too. But I had gotten there, I had gotten to Black House and I trained with some of the people in the UFC. I was just like, holy shit, like, I'm actually, like, doing fine. Like, I'm hanging with these guys and, and, you know, talking to them and, and just kind of getting to know some of these guys and it just made it a little more human, you know, and it's like, well, what did you do before you were a fighter? Like, oh, I fucking worked at a restaurant, you know, I was a busboy or whatever.

I was, you know, this, that third. And I was just thinking, you know, and they're all looking at me like, dude, you're a fucking Navy SEAL. like and I'm just like yeah but that's all I've ever known that's all I've ever done I did right out of high school you know and and I'm just me you know and I know like I'm not special you know what I mean and it just kind of made it had like a shift or like a realization like these are just people just like you and and they just fucking stuck with fighting and practiced it until they were good enough to beat, you know, the competition, and now they're here.

And I was like, fuck, I could do that. Like, I'm pretty good, you know? And, yeah, and I've been through some shit. Like, I could push myself hard. Like, fuck, I could do this. And at the time, like, I had already been a seal for a while. And, you know, I got to experience a ton and life and just in war and just that whole lifestyle and that whole thing and and uh i was just at a crossroads you know and i was like well

i can stay in and make a career out of this like i was planning on doing i was planning on staying in for 20 years um and you know i can screen and you know try and make it over there and or i can get out and and kind of pursue this and and at the time i was 29 or or yeah, I was 27 when I was, like, making this decision. And I was like, you know, fighting is kind of a young man's game. And like you read earlier in the beginning of this, like you can't even pause time, you know, waits for no one. And I was like, well, if I just keep down this road, I don't want to think, like, what if,

or like regret you know and i was like i've already i've already been on this path for a while and and it's cool and all that but i want to see what else i can do so i and i was really fucking struggling with with that decision for a long time it was stressing me out and uh then once i just said fuck it and this decided you know which way i was going then the like all that stress like relief this it was a big reliever and uh And yeah, decided to get out. And what year was that? I got out in 2018.

And how many amateur fights did you have when you were in? Like 17 or something. And then did you go pro while you were still in? No, they wouldn't let me. And that was like it was so frustrating to me because in Virginia, the amateur rule set is the exact same as pro. So it's day before weigh-ins. you know, all strikes, like, no shin pads.

You know, it's four ounce gloves, no headgear. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's fucking pro. Five minute rounds? No, there were three, three minute rounds. Three minute rounds, yeah. Three minute rounds. But some, some of them had five minute rounds, like I fought in North Carolina. So, yeah, it was no different, you know.

And trying to explain that to like my command and shit. and I'm like there is literally no difference and a guess what like a punch from punch in the face from an amateur feels the same from a pro that's what I'll tell you what like those that bruise that came from an amateur it would have came from a pro too do when I talk to tim Kennedy about this like it's so crazy the army gave that guy and gives him so much he's a great guy and obviously a credible fighter but yeah I mean he was just full on just getting after it man well and he's He still is. Yeah, and they support him. Yeah, he's all. It's awesome. It's awesome.

They, man, I ran into total fucking roadblocks left and right with my fighting. And, you know, and I use the argument all the time. Like, guys, you don't. Brian Stan, same way. Brian Stan. Yeah. He was in the Marine Corps. Yeah.

I talked. I talked to Brian. He was the damn officer of the Marine Corps just out there fighting in the WEC. But the, uh, the, uh, no trading. Tim Kennedy, they, they sponsored him. Yeah. Yeah. You know what it was a, like Ranger up or whatever?

Yeah. Well, Rangers Up is actually Tim's company. No, Tim, but for a while, Tim, Tim was like, he, I forget the exact story, but he, he was sponsored by, like, the army. Yeah. For a while. They were using it as like a recruiting tool. And then he said, listen, you can either keep paying me a sponsorship or you can just let me come back on active duty. And they were like, uh, that sounds like a good financial deal for us. So yeah, Tim, Tim's.

Yeah. And that's why I kind of was forced to, to choose. because I was running into so much fucking bullshit. Yeah. And, you know, like, glory had come to town, and they were doing a fight at the Hampton Coliseum. And, you know, at this point, I had already had quite a few fights under my belt

and had some popularity, I guess, as a fighter, and they had heard about me. And they invited me to fight on the show. and Mike Tyson was going to be there and shit. And I was like, man, this is going to be a fucking huge opportunity. It's on Spike TV too. And I was, you know, I was like, can I fight on this? And they were like, yeah, you know, we'll see what we can do, blah, blah, blah.

And then last, you know, last minute they told me no, you know. And I was just like, fuck, man. If I would have been your boss, you would have been fighting. I know. And that's the shitty part is like, You know, it depends on who's at the table at the moment. And you know, now that I think about it, because I'm just sitting here thinking, like, there's probably a, in fact, I remember seeing some kind of policy that they put in place at some point. And I forget even if it was yes or no.

I forget. I don't even remember. But my argument to the, it was like all the time was like, like just same one with the skydiving. You know, I'm like, guys fucking skydive all the time. There's leapfrogs, you know. Why don't, why don't the Navy, why doesn't the Navy use me as a, a. recruiting tool you know like I would I don't want to get out of the teams I want to stay in the teams but I also want to fight and like I can do this like I was ranked number one on the east

coast and two weight classes you know and I was like I'm pretty good at this shit like you know and it I don't understand why we don't utilize this uh utilize me as a recruiting tool you know go to the fights set up a fucking pull it bar hand out t-shirts and try and hand you know or go or the, like, they had me go to the national high school wrestling contest or tournament. And they had me do like a combative's demonstration and, and had me go out there and wrestle with all the high school students and stuff. And yeah, I fucking brought it. Yeah.

I'll tell you what, man. Smash and frog, baby. The, you know, I was up at the California State Championships last year. Or no, it was 2019. Yeah. It was like a bunch of hyenaes. Well, yeah, I mean, my, my daughter was competing, and but, you know, we're up there at the boys.

They're just animals. They're animals. It's awesome to see. Yeah. Yeah. It's outstanding. Those kids were fucking tough. Oh, yeah.

And they fucking, they all wanted some. Oh, sure they did. They were like, and because I was there in like cammy pants, you know, and the fucking blue UDT seal shirts. And we brought the pull-it bar and, you know, because the, I think, But buds likes, they try to get wrestlers. For sure they do. Because wrestlers, you know, wrestlers, I don't even want to say wrestlers have a good chance of making it through buds because.

No, that's not true. It's definitely not true. They have a slightly better chance than a normal person. Right. However, wrestlers are used to a fucking grind. And that's probably why they're a little bit more comfortable and used to the grind factor of buds. That does not mean they're used to getting cold and wet. dealing with all that shit, but they're used to dealing with the grind, so whatever.

And they're competitive. So we went there and, yeah, all these fucking high school wrestlers are looking at me, like, I got something to prove, you know, or whatever. And I'm out there representing the fucking SEAL team. So I'm like, hey, I got something approved too. Let's go, young buck. So we, no, it was a good time. But I was like, why don't they fucking, they're cool with this, but not, like, fighting.

Like what's the difference? Like I don't know So I just ran into tons of frustrating headaches like that And that's what ultimately decided to You know I was just decided to go Go this way and I'm glad I did but Yeah and that's what you know

I got to say like the SEAL teams I never tried to fight pro But like the SEAL teams was totally support Like I would go and train at places They'd give me well the West Coast was A lot different in the East Coast You guys were definitely more supported on that kind of stuff.

Extra-curricular things. So you get out and then when did you go pro? Right after I got out. So you've been pro for a year and a half, two years right now? Yeah, a year and a half. And how many pro fights do you have? I've only done two pro fights so far. I won my first one by TKO in the third round.

It was a really good fight against another pro who, he was a pro boxer as well and he had called me out and kind of campaigned for the fight or whatever and so I bludged and then and then I did my LFA debut um I fight in a sunga I don't know if you've seen any pictures of videos I have unfortunately seen that you can't unsee it you're welcome no so that's actually my buddy um Jeff gum he owns that company yeah I know Jeff Yeah, so obviously, like I try to support other team guys and their ventures and stuff like that. And, you know, that was right up my alley with the, I thought it was funny. I'll pretty much do anything if I think it's funny.

And so I fought in the Sunga, which is, for those you don't know, it kind of looks like an American flag diaper sort of thing. But it's sexy. Yeah. Well, it's from Brazil. in Brazil there's a sunga and there's a sungao and I think the sunga is like the smaller one and the sungal is like a little bit but they're they're speedos yeah essentially speedos so they're speedos and dean lister because he has so much Brazilian influence in his brain he went through his phase of training with a sungal and and uh those were some of the worst years in my life

to be honest with you. No, north-south. We can't do that today. Yeah, so I'm not, I'm very anti-sunga and sung-gal. But you, you know, you go for it. Well, I'd actually, hey, if I wouldn't, I would make me want to fight you less if you were wearing that. So you got that little psychological led to your point.

Or it was like confusing to them, you know? Which is, I mean, did you remember, were you watching like UFC when everyone was, when all the Brazilians were still wearing them in UFC? And they still do something. times. Yeah. Yeah, I've seen some of them. Yeah. But anyways. But I thought it was funny. So I got a little cup patch sewn into it so I could put my cup in it and that was my new fighting attire.

And yeah, I went out. It couldn't have, I don't know, it was awesome. We'll say that. I went out. I fought on LFA, on national TV. And it was during a military appreciation fight. And so they hosted the fight at an army base, and it was in a hangar with helicopters, and we've got all these people, all these active duty army people in their uniforms and stuff in the crowd. And, you know, here I am the Navy SEAL and the American Flag Speedo and come out to fight and got knocked out in 30 seconds. So it was like, I can't get really that much worse from here, so that's cool. Dang.

But now it was actually, they called it the craziest 31 seconds in LFA history. Yeah, I watched it. Yeah. It was, normally I don't have a lot of time to watch fights. Yeah. I had time for a lot for that one. But yeah, I saw. I think you posted it somewhere or somebody that sent it to me.

I posted the whole video. I mean, which so many people were so, like, they were like, wow, I can't believe you posted this. And like, you sat him down first, right? Didn't you sit him down? No. So he had a. 14 inch reach on me. He was 6-3 and fucking big ass dude. And honestly, like, I didn't even know, like we were, we were real cordial with each other, like at weigh-ins and stuff like that.

So I wasn't sure if, like, we were going to touch gloves or not, you know, because it's always kind of a, I feel like they should just, like, make that a rule like you are or you, you either do or you don't. It's a rule with me now. But I wasn't sure if we were going to touch gloves or not and like kind of coming out, dude, he honestly, he hit me, like, I didn't even know he could reach me from where he was. And it was just like, I think from that big weight cut, I do a big weight cut, and I think it just, you know,

just fucking, just put me on Queer Street right away. And so right out of the gates, I was rocked and was kind of fell down and was just, he'd swarm me, and I was just getting punches. thrown at me left and right and I'm just kind of like seeing stars trying to gain my composure and then I finally like got backed up in against the cage and and gained my composure for a second landed a one clean one two and and dropped him and then ran over like

got excited when I dropped him down kind of went over towards him and and fucking just I think probably my coordination was just kind of off still from just getting rocked. And I literally just tripped right over head over him over his body and then as we're both standing up he fucking threw another punch and that was it So and I was just like god damn it. I'm a fucking Navy SEAL on a army base like fighting in an American flight speedo a national TV and just got knocked the fuck out. Yeah Yeah. Good times. But, you know, whatever. I don't know what to tell you.

Yeah. No, that's, hey, man, you're getting out there. Hey, yeah. That's what you're going to do. That's what it is. There's going to be a winner and a loser. That's right. And if you, the real losers are the ones that are actually not getting in the ring.

Hey, you know, a lot more times than not, I've come out victorious. So it is what it is. I don't, it doesn't slow me down, doesn't bum me out or, or, whatever, just part of it. And I understand that going into it. It's the risk I'm willing to take. And what's your next fight? We're setting up one looking at August 25th in Riverside, hopefully, with the LFA. So hopefully that goes through, and I'll be all set to go. Any idea on an opponent yet? No. I don't care who it is. I just want someone. I don't care. I never really care who my opponent.

it is honestly I don't I don't look at really their skill set or I never have really I don't care because I've dealt with people just so much and like combatives and and jiu-jitsu and fighting it's just like people are unpredictable and that's what I stick with like you may think you have a game plan figured out and then all of a sudden they do something different and I don't even want to be thinking about oh well I thought he was going to do this and I had this setup for this and you know what I mean like I know what you mean I will say this When you find out who your opponent is you got to watch them you got to watch some you got to at least figure out because There's people that have things they have their game and if they have that game and you and you know about it as you know like if if you know I'm good at

Whatever you'll defend that thing right and if you don't know it well then I'll get you in that situation right if you really let's like um What will anybody anybody if you everyone's got that thing at their game that they're good at right and like in Jiu jit too hey this guy's got a good guilletine this guy's got a good heel hooks or whatever everyone's got their little thing and if they're good at it then that's what they'll kind of steer you towards but yeah so I always and I always say look I get it we don't care of the opponent is but when you find out who your opponent has take a look you know Send it to me. Let me look at it. You know what I mean?

Because I've been watching these things forever to say, hey, looks like this guy's got this. And you also have to watch more than, you know, to watch like three or four fights and see if they have any grappling tournaments that are posted on Naga or whatever on YouTube. You know, and you find out what kind of game they have. And if you can do that, then you can learn from it and you can take it into the cage with you. Yeah, no, I'm definitely not opposed to doing that at all. I just don't put all my eggs in the basket. You know what I mean?

And that way I don't, if shit doesn't go according to plan, like, that's cool. Because they're going to evolve too. Yeah, for sure. They're going to evolve, but guess what they'll go back to? They'll go back to what they're good at. You know what I mean? So that's another thing to think about. Well, cool.

So that glory, that actual story, when I had gotten told no, that I wasn't able to do that fucking event in Hampton Road. So I was really bummed out. And so I ended up actually just calling the guy. I already had decided at that point. I was like, you know what? Fuck this. I'm getting out of the Navy.

Like I don't want to be told what I can and can't do or whatever. You know what I mean? Like. And so I called the guy back and said, well, when's it the next one? And he was like, oh, we got another one coming up in San Diego. And I said, put me on that one. And so I just took leave and was like, yeah, I'm just going to San Diego. And I ended up fighting on the glory card in San Diego.

I just took leave and went out there and did it anyway. And ended up knocking the guy out in the second round. Right on. Yeah, that's pretty good outcome. Well, this is a pretty good spot since we're up to current events. What else? I know you got your supplement company. You got T-shirts.

What else? How can people support what you got going on? I would say the biggest way is probably on Instagram. That's really my only platform. I put out a lot of content on Instagram. I do my live streams from there. I thought about doing a podcast as well, but I think I'm just going to stick to my Instagram lives

and just kind of treat them as podcasts or whatever. Because I like talking and interacting with my supporters a lot. And, you know, so I figure people, people get bored just talking to me for a long time in a room like this. I don't know. But yeah, I would say follow me on Instagram at Mitch Agjar. And yeah, we've got a supplement company. Our main product is a thing called the Smashing Greens. That's what I gave you today. Yeah. And that actually is a blend of different organic superfoods. So I watched this documentary called Fat Sick and Nearly Dead.

I don't know if you've seen it or not. I have not. It's on Netflix. And this guy, he was really overweight and had this some sort of skin disease. And he ended up getting a juicer and ended up doing 60 days of just vegetable juice. And he ended up losing a ton of weight and his skin disease cleared up. And just like the doctors were just like blown away. at how healthy he had become, you know, just from doing all this and learned about micronutrients

and all this stuff. So I was like, man, that seems like a cool, cool thing. Like, I want to try it, you know. I've never fasted before or anything like that. And I went out and bought a juicer, and it was a fucking pain in the ass to clean that thing, like three times a day. And I was having, I had to buy like $30 worth of vegetables every day to make enough juice to, you know, put into a glass that would somewhat keep me full. And I was just like, there's got to be a better way than this shit. And so ended up going to a vitamin shop and saw like organic, freeze-dried wheatgrass. And you just add water to it.

And I was like, oh, my God, that's so much better, you know. So I went and basically picked out a bunch of ingredients that, I did research on that, you know, things that I wanted and put them all into like a shaker cup and added water and drank it and did a fast that way. And it was obviously much cheaper, much better, like just more convenient, way more convenient and everything like that. And I just didn't have anything to post on Instagram one day. And so I just shared it. I was just like, hey, this is kind of a concoction that I came up with. And I do a five-day fast like this.

And just kind of makes me feel good, helps me lose weight. And then I started doing that, like, cutting weight for my fights. And then people, it just fucking caught on, like, wildfire. Like, everyone was like, what is that? What is that? And then I was like, look, I'm not associated with these companies at all. You know, like, these aren't, I don't get it paid for this. Like, this is just here,

This is what I do and like, laid it all out there. And it was like, you can get all these products on Amazon or your local vitamin shop or whatever. And just made it as idiot proof as I could. And I was just getting bombarded with questions nonstop. But it was like a lot of people were having like a ton of success fasting with that and losing weight. So I was like, well, that's pretty cool. You know, like I'm really, I'm down to help people, you know, better themselves. and I enjoy like pushing people and pushing myself and trying to be better and everything.

So I stuck with it and just kept answering all the questions or whatever. And then after like a year and a half or so, I ended up making my own. You know, it's just like, well, I might as well if I can make this my own product. And so I found a way to kind of make that come to life and took all those products basically and just put them into one, removed all the fillers and all the fillers. the bullshit in there and just was like, you know, I didn't know anything about the supplement industry or anything like that. I just never intended on doing that, but it just kind of came about and, you know, delivered a product that was way more convenient and everyone was already

using and buying all these other things. And now, now it's like my product and they're able to support me. And now it's like, I don't, you know, I don't have an issue answering these questions. now that you're buying my product, you know what I mean? So now it's been super awesome because we've had just a ton of people lose so much weight. And like my brother lost 110 pounds, you know, using it. So it really works, which is cool, you know, and it's really helpful for people and it's changing their lives and, like, I'm all about that. And now, like, it's supporting me financially now that I'm not out, you know,

in the Navy anymore because I didn't I didn't get a retirement or anything like that I just got out so um so yeah it's super cool and and uh the supplement in uh company like now that I've been in it for a little while like I'm starting to get more understanding of it and and uh we're we're doing pre-workout protein BCAAs all that stuff like kind of expanding it and and um you know now I'm like really involved with it and and I'm just treating it like everything else like I always tried to you know under promise and over deliver and like I always want to make sure that like people are getting like a something good you know I don't want to ever feel like I jipped someone or got one over something like that like when people come to use my products like I want them to be like a

fucking satisfied yeah for sure I mean that's a the best policy to have, make the best stuff you can make. Yeah, so just don't skimp, you know, like my, my, my, my, my, my, my end game is not to make the most profit. Like, I want an actual good fucking product, like that my name's behind, you know, and I'm proud of. What's the, what's the website? You can either go to smash and frog.com or massive supplements.com, M-A-S-F supplements.com. Either one, they go to the same place, but, yeah. And we got T-shirts and stuff, but I'm basically streamlining my T-shirts because I had massive apparel.

And I just made a bunch of T-shirts that I wanted to make, you know, that were, like, personal to me. Like, the mindset is everything. Attitude is contagious. Don't be a pussy. Be humble. You know, these are shirts that, like, I've kind of made all the shirts that I want to make, and I made them. I was kind of a T-shirt snob before I had my company. And once I made my company and got into the apparel industry,

like I just wanted like really comfortable, nice fitting, good quality t-shirts and printed my own shit on them. And that's all I wear now. But I'm just streamlining it down to a couple that I like. And I'm actually launching a new brand pretty soon that I'm very excited about. Cool. Cool. Right on, man.

So if you follow me on Instagram, you'll, you can keep up with. all that stuff I got going on and and watch my future fights and hopefully I don't get knocked out. Echo, you got anything? What happened with that dodge ball fight you're talking about? Oh, man. It was oddly enough, it was in a church also. So I got into a dodge ball church fight.

Dodge ball church ball. Did you win that one? I did. And knocked the guy's tooth out. we were there to practice our dodgeball and we were taking it very seriously, you know, because there was a tournament coming up that I think had like a $500 prize, which when you're like $16, $500 is a million. Yeah, that'll go a long way.

Might as well be. Go a long way. So, you know, the stakes were high, and we were there, and there was some local jokers that we're just, you know, not taking it seriously and like just fucking with our practice and stuff. Dude, if there's one thing that makes me angry, legitimately angry is when people aren't taking dodgeball serious. You know, it just, oh, fucking, it was, there was a time for joking around. There was a time for seriousness and, you know, that wasn't the time.

And ended up, you know, I ended up saying something to this dude and just, you just kind of fucking mouthed off and, you know, my temper is, temper is, layered and escalated. Yeah, things escalated and ended up getting into like a full on brawl. Like on dodge ball. Dodge ball. It was a Dodge brawl. Dodge brawl.

There you go. So, thank you. That's a good time. Well, awesome. Hey, speaking of fighting. Sure. And smashing things. Sure.

I mean, Echo. Yes. We want to be better at fighting. We want to be better at living. What do you got? What do you got for us? I got a few things. So we'll start with jujitsu, right?

Jiu-sutu. You like ghee or no-gi better? I'm starting to like no-gi better, I would say, just because I feel like it's more applicable to the cage. However, you know, like Jocko was saying earlier, I agree wholeheartedly. I think that everyone who trains Jiu-Jitsu should train in a ghee as well because, you know, there are a lot of similarities.

And I feel like if you only train no-gee and then you go against someone with a, put a guy on with any sort of decent skill level, you're going to get fucking choked for sure. Yeah. And it just, the geese slows everything down. And it's a totally different animal. And the thing is, like, you can train in a ghee all the time and take the gey off and roll with someone no-gee. and you're going to do fine. You're still doing jiu-jitsu.

You know what I mean? It's a different game, but it's not that much different. But going from no-gi to ghee, very different. So that's why I think people should definitely train in a ghee still. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, both is best for sure. Yeah, the gey adds these elements that if you only train no-gi, you're not used to those elements. And if someone else is used to those elements, all the no-gee, well, most of the no-ge elements are in the geet.

You know, like those elements are there for the most part. Of course, and clothes, you know, like using, like if you were getting a street fight, like you can use clothes like a ghee. Right. So it gives you even that many more options, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I agree. Well, speaking of geese, what ghee we're going to get? Everyone's doing jiu-jitsu now.

I feel like it's growing, essentially. So what kind of ghee are we getting, origin geese? You know why are we getting origin geese? Because they're made in America. And they are factually the best geese in the world. Rush guards as well. Okay. So where do we get and we get them at origin main.com.

That's also where we're getting genes, by the way. And I got mine, by the way. Approval level? 100. You know, I'm always reluctant to saying, you know, 101% approval. But here, I'm going to say it, 101% approval because they exceeded, literally exceeded my expectation. And your expectations were high. Were, yeah, 100%.

I was like, yeah, the way you're talking, the way they, you know, PD does a good job in building these things up. You know, he's taking close up pictures of the buttons coming. out of the factory that it's really good. So I'm like, all right, expectation, expectation level is high. 100%. These have to be five-star jeans, essentially. They're like five-star plus, some added things that I was impressed with. So, yes, 101% approval.

Yes. So jeans, you can get them, t-shirts. Rash cards. Supplements. Yes. So what kind of supplements? Joint warfare, which I'm happy. Man, I've been on the joint warfare.

I think it's been one year consistent joint warfare. Crill oil. So approved. 100% approved. Actually, adding value, providing value, even beyond what you might think in the beginning. Because, you know, when we're young, you know, we're all young guys or whatever, you don't care. You know, you have muscle soreness. You have all this stuff or whatever.

The joint soreness is one of those things that just kind of creeps up on you. But if you're on top of that, that doesn't take it. It'll take you out of the game if you're not ready. Preventative. Yeah. And when it comes about, I get like elbow stuff from lifting and stuff. Um, but if, if I was on like joint warfare, glucose being conjoint any, any one of these things that they did recommend when I started grappling by the way. If I was on that, I would have never got out of the game at any point.

The last point is get your joint warfare, get your cruel oil and stay on that. Get your discipline to. Yeah, fully. Get your discipline. Discipline is like all day now. Yes, sir. That's kind of where it's going. It's like, yeah, guess what I'm just drinking?

Oh, I'm just going. to have some discipline. Right. It's kind of... I saw you poured this. Is this what you're talking about? Yeah, yeah. It's just tastiness and goodness.

Pre-mission? Is this a pre-workout? Yeah. It's not like a super... There's not like a super caffeinated deal because I don't drink a lot of caffeine and I don't want to drink a lot of caffeine. So, yeah. A little cognitive, a little physical.

Okay. And you just sip this all day? Yeah, I don't have like some in the... I won't drink it like. After dinner, you know, because there's a little bit of caffeine in it and I don't drink a lot of caffeine So not even in the mornings when you when you're waking up? No 4.30. Just a little bit of caffeine in it too. So I guess I do drink caffeine But I don't drink high doses like like a like a monster energy drink or whatever

Yeah, yeah, it makes sense. Speaking of energy drink we got an energy drink coming out But it's it's actually good for you which is is completely it's like we it's hard to call it an energy drink because energy drink puts it in a in a category with things that are actually horrible for you yeah right like the normal energy drinks that are just horrible for you this is something that you can legitimately just drink and it's good for you yeah so that's coming out oh yeah you'll see some cans of that in the near future oh yeah that's a good one also milk if you want a dessert

If you want extra protein in the form of a dessert, that's it. Monk. All flavors. I like that just say. If you want a dessert. You have a mint chocolate protein, right? I have a mint chocolate protein as well. And I was, my, my protein, or, my supplements took a long time to come out.

Like, way, I'm sure you've encountered whenever you're dealing with any kind of putting out something. It never goes according to plan and it's always longer than you're expecting or whatever. and I had done mint chocolate. That was just, I've been a huge fan of mint, my whole life, mint chocolate, whatever. Me too. Deliciousness. And I saw that you put out of mint chocolate and I was like,

God damn it, everyone is going to think I copy Jock. I don't have the pat-you-in-chlor mint chocolate. Or they'll probably think like, dang, I thought I was the only one who loved mint chocolate better than everything else. I was like, you know what? No, wait, we all kind of do. Me and Jaco, we're both seals, both like jiu-jitsu, both like mint chocolate. Yeah. Well, same thing with Pete, right?

I mean, not the Neme Seale thing, but wait, was he into mint or peanut butter? He was into mint, but I think peanut butter. See, the peanut butter was kind of like the came out of nowhere and started smashing. Well, yeah, and that makes sense because in my opinion, you know, I'm not disgust, like, my favorite dessert is this or that. I'm not that, you know. But I will say that when you came out, it's almost like, you know, you're going public with your mint chocolate love admiration. And I was like, hey, hey, hey, me too. But peanut butter, chocolate has always been my close, close second.

Easy money. But the one that really, the strawberry, because it's just so good. Oh, yeah. And strawberry is a staple anyway. It's a staple everything, but so is vanilla. But I'm not over here jumping up and down about vanilla. Yeah, but some people. I know some people are.

I've got a cinnamon toast crunch. There's a coming out. And I've got to think of a name for it because. I don't think I can legally call it cinnamon toast crunch. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what the rules are. I thought about thinking of, you know, growing up, I always had, we were kind of not so financially gifted.

Yeah. I want to call it that, whatever, living in a trailer. And my mom would always get fruity dino bites, you know. There you go. And cinnamon toast squares. So I used to eat those out of the bag. Close. That's not what the other kids eat.

Yeah. You know what? Once I, this is the special kind. Once I joined the Navy and started getting, you know, a good paycheck, I just, I never, you know,

I never again. I always appreciated my cereal game. It was always the good, the real stuff. Fruity pebbles. There's no fruity dynobites in this house. Get out of here with that. It comes in the bag.

Speaking of that, little kids need food. That's where we got Warrior Kid Mulk. Strawberry. Boom. Chocolate. Yeah. Let them eat and be healthy. And you got that jaco white tea.

Yeah. It's pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, my wife gets like she hits a point in the day where she's like, man, I'm considering just to go to bed right now or to bust out of jaco white tea and just get after it. It literally says that. Decision point. Yeah.

And I know the feeling, but man, she's really committed to it. That's her go to. You got to take something or create a supplement of some kind for a little power nap. Because working on it, you know, I did start a rumor that you take naps. No, I freely admit that. He's very open about it. I wrote about it. I wrote about it in the Dispignac Freedom Field Manual.

Yeah, I mean, if I'm really tired, I elevate my feet above my heart, and I sat in alarm and I'll sleep for eight minutes. Eight minutes? Eight minutes. Power nap? Yep. And if you go, I mean, sometimes I'll go 10, but if you start going 15, 20, then you're like legitimately, you'll feel groggy. But you know the deal, man, from. Like you were talking about sleeping in a helicopter.

Like you wake up from those things and you're totally on fire. You know, I was asleep for 10 minutes, 8 minutes, whatever. So, yeah, I have no problem with this. The problem with me is, I don't know, I tend to nap better than I sleep. And like when I wake up, my brain just starts going. And it just, once that happens, it's just, that's it. I'm up. So when you say a supplement for power nap, it like helps you get into like power nap state, like that kind?

I don't know. I'm working on it. Hey, we'll look into it. Yeah. Yeah. We'll work in it. It could be your, your cinnamon dose crunch,

uh, flavored situation. Have you taken hypnosis? Uh-uh. Yeah. So origin. So we have, we have this thing called hypnosis,

which is like a sleep. Yeah, but that's not for now. I know. That's not for a lot. Yeah. You need something. You need something that's just good for eight minutes.

It's usually, you take a rail of it and you're out for eight minutes, just fully recharge. I'm working on it. Well, but technically, and I don't, I don't know.

This just seems like this is true. Power nap. Okay, you know, you have like, what the five phases, right, of sleep?

Yeah. I don't know what they are. Yeah. I don't either. I actually have insomnia. Yeah. So, yeah.

So you can have some, you probably get jammed up somewhere in one of those stages. Right. Power nap is stage one, I think. I'm pretty sure it's only stage one, power nap.

It depends on how tired you are. Well, then it won't be considered a power nap. If you're like super tired and you go, boom, all the way phase, stage five, sleep,

right? You went to bed. Do you have sleep apnea or anything? Nope. No? Yeah, I don't have, I did a sleep study and I don't have sleep apnea, but I have insomnia. And it's like I wake up enough not to actually wake me up, but like it's like I wake up, no, I don't even know I'm awake.

Oh. You know what I mean? So I wake up. When I do wake up, I'm fucking still exhausted. Yeah. It's great. It's great. I'm actually, so one of the, I actually have a CBD line as well, which I don't know if you

get into the CBD at all. Not really, no. No. But one of the products that, that we're launching is a thing called Green Dreams. And it's a rapid dissolve. It's a rapid dissolve tablet that you put on your tongue and dissolves in like 10 seconds. And it's 25 milligrams of CBD and 10 milligrams of melatonin. So, but that's not for an eight minute.

Yeah, that doesn't sound like an eight-minute power nap. That's the going to bed situation. Yeah, that's a go-to-bed. to bed situation. Nighty night. Right on? Well, the opposite

of that is Jock White T because you don't take that before you go to bed maybe after you wake up in the middle of the day like my wife or whatever. Also,

if you're into deadlifting, which we all are, of course, it'll increase it to 8,000 pounds. Proven, by the way. Double blind, triple placebo situation.

No joke. Also, we have our own store. Jocko has a store. It's called Jocko store. We got rash guards. T-shirts. Yeah. T-shirts.

You want a represent while on the path. Truckers hats. Yeah. For those of us that like truckers. Like truckers hats, which apparently we do. They're nice. One size fits all.

There you go. What about FlexFit? I did the FlexFit for a while, but, you know, I got a small head. Wait, FlexFit has two sizes, though. I know. Yeah, so you're right. You got to get the small medium or the large X-L. I don't know nothing about the.

You're not even about that at all. Don't know anything about it. Turn you back to it. Hoodies. Hats knob over here. Yeah, hoodies, lightweight. Do you find use for a lightweight hoodie? Definitely.

All the time. You're around. Yes, sir. I agree. Not everyone agreed with that one. Do they have the zippers? Yes. Well, yes.

So the ones we have, yes, they have zipper. I'm a fan of the zipper. The zipper light hoodie with the pockets. Agreed. Honestly, I don't even have any of my own in my apparel line at the moment. But I'm a fan of those. Yeah. I'm not.

I'm not. Yeah, well, dang. Dang, you know, I mean, you know, I'm just either a t-shirt or heavy hoodie. That's where it's all functional and I get it, you know, but that's like a gie man, a zip a zipped up a non or a zipping lightweight. Yeah, a fucking guy. Yeah. Play some warm guard with Allen for sure. And, you know, hopefully it looks good.

Hopefully you like the design, but you will be representing while you're on the path. A lot of good stuff on there. Jocco store.com. Some patches on there too. I reordered some more patches. They're coming in. Thank you. I made a mistake.

Yay. I made a mistake. I don't want to go too deep into it, but it resulted in the patches not being available for a little while. They're going to be available. You know, you can't buy what's not available. Yeah. Yeah, that's what they're telling me too. And I was like, dang, okay, all right.

So, you know, you learn something new every day. And, you know, speaking of which. Right on top of things. Trying to be. Check. Trying to be back. Trying to be. Anyway, smash the like button.

Oh my daughter, I keep saying that to me. Oh, she doesn't even know what that means. I think she halfway knows what that means. She's like, smash the like button. I was like, brother, the video that you're pretending to make doesn't even have a like button. No, no, but you need to just. I got to cut it out. No, no, no, no, I got to stop her from saying that.

That's what I'm going to say. But if you're in the mood to smash the white button, if you want to subscribe to this podcast, you can. So do that if you want on where you listen to podcasts. And don't forget about the Warrior Kid podcast, which there are now three new Warrior Kid Podcasts live at this time. Yeah, good ones. Stories from Uncle Jake. Yeah.

Stories that teach lessons. An interview with John Bozak, the Warrior Kid artist that drew Mikey the Dragons, talking about how to get better at art, how to use art as a tool. Tool, yeah. Get better at other things. Yeah, that was good, man.

That was good. That was like, do you do any art? I didn't draw in my books, no. But I mean, yeah, I can draw. Yeah. He sent me, and I'm going to post this online. I do oil paintings.

Oh, for real? Yeah, like Bob Ross. Have you been into that for like a long time? Is that like a new situation? I did my first painting in 2000, Easter of 2016.

Yeah. So kind of new. It's not like, oh, when I was three, I did my, you know, definitely not.

Jocko has the original logo where I have the original logo of Echelon Front is Jocco's design. Actually designed some, other stuff too. Yeah, that's on to question. So he drew it, right? But so. The disconnect was that I drew it. I didn't draw on with my hand. I drew it on the computer. Like I drew it on PowerPoint. It's so bad. It's so funny because when he first sent it to me, I'm like, of course you drew it on PowerPoint.

You know, it's not like you have one of those pads and stuff. Your jockey, you don't have that kind stuff. So, but it's not as obvious when you get it. You just get the finished process. You just get the finished And it literally looks like my daughter drew it with her left hand. She's right-handed, by the way. But the concept was legitimate. It was sound. The concept is what the echelon front logo is at this time. So you're pushing and men received.

But the comedic part of it. I tried to explain it to you nine different times. And you kept sending me back junk. Yeah. And finally I said, okay, picture's worth a thousand words. Yes, sir, it is. I don't feel like explaining us a thousand times. Let's just send him a rudimentary sketch of,

the concept, which you then chiseled out into, you know, glory. Yeah. Emphasis on rudimentary, by the way, but the comedic part of it is how it looked. It looked like a child drew it. So now anytime, like, if you ask him, oh, yeah, have you been into art? Boom, that flashes in my head and he says, yes, boom, makes it more funny. I'm going to post it online so we all can have a good laugh. Check.

Nonetheless, yes, Warwick Kid podcast is out. That interview with John Bozac is very good, like, especially like, because it is He talks about getting, like, frustrated with stuff and though that's how drawing in. It was good. Don't forget about Warrior Kids soap from Irish Oaks Ranch.com that young Aden is making on his farm.

If you get soap, you can stay clean. Sure, of course. Also, we have a YouTube channel if you're interested in the video version. We're going to see what Mitch looks like. Hell yeah. I'm handsome. You might be the buffest guess we've ever had, right?

I don't know. Buffest guess? Yeah, like, out of 185? Yeah. We've only had like probably 10 or 15 gaps. Don't get excited.

Oh, yeah, Tim Kennedy. Tim Kennedy. Do you know how many fucking times people, you and Tim Kennedy need to fight? And I'm like,

have you seen Tim Kennedy? He's way bigger than me, first of all. Yeah. Fights at 85. I know. Yeah. And what do you fight at?

70. Yeah. And what do you walk around? I have fought at 185 as well. I was a champion at 185 too. I walk around close to 200 Yeah Yeah

That was No team is like 215 to 20 He's a big dude I've met him Just in passing I shook his hand one time But yeah

He's a big dude And But I was always I always tell me like That's not We have like Kind of like similar stories Like there's

It wouldn't make sense For us stuff like Yeah They just want to see Yeah Psychological warfare is an album with tracks. Wait, wait, no, back to YouTube.

We have a YouTube channel. I'm going to, what I call, explain the value of YouTube. You just did. You can see what Mitch looks like. That's just part of the value. That's just like a big part. I mean, I was going to say, don't undersell that. Yeah, yeah, it's huge.

But, you know, we have some excerpts on there is what I was going to say. You know, if you don't want to watch the whole podcast, there's excerpts on there. Anyway, a lot of good stuff. Some of them are enhanced by Echo. Yeah. Who puts his art work onto the video. And they might be slightly better than my original echelon front logo. Maybe a little bit better.

Some of them are over-enhanced. Some people think. Some people think they're under-enhanced. Yes, I would agree with both. Regardless. Nonetheless, we have a YouTube channel. That's the point. Yeah.

And if you want to, you can smash the like button, sure. Comment, subscribe, whatever the three things they always say. Anyway, yeah, psychological warfare is an album with tracks. If you're running into moments of weakness, put in psychological warfare, it'll solve your problem. No weakness, weakness overcome. If you want the visual version of that, go to flipsidecanvas.com.

My brother, Dakota Meyer, has a little company where he's making things that you hang on your wall. Artistic things. Some people call them artistic things. And you can get those. If you want him to make a special one. Yeah. Hit him up on Twitter.

Do some custom. If it seems to get some traction, he can put it out. Yeah, he's good. He's doing good stuff on there. Yeah, I check him out from time to time. Flipside canvas.com. Dig it.

Also, on it. So you go to onet.com slash joccoo. You get a lot of good stuff on there, including kettlebells, other workout stuff. And bring my room. I'm going to Hawaii, by the way, for one month. I know. People really.

don't, they undersell Hawaii, I feel like. I feel that was the same way. When I went there for the first time, I was blown away. Where'd you go? Maui and Oahu. I'm going to Kauai. Yeah, one month. I heard that's beautiful.

Yes, sir. It is. So, I'm bringing the rings. Your request, by the way. That was one of the selling points of rings, is that you can bring them places, too. That wasn't really my request. It was a statement.

Yeah, statement. Recommendation. Recommendation. Maybe. Maybe reluctant recommendation. You sure did. It was a legitimate recommendation. Nonetheless, I'm taking it.

I'm taking them to Hawaii. Anyway, the point is, the rings I have are from on it. You can get those. You can get kettlebells. You can get, I have this, okay, they have this mineral electrolyte, like, mix, right? And I think I might have just enhanced what I call the mega mix. It's the pre-workout mega-mix.

There's two. There's one for jih Tis-to, one for lifting. The one for jih Tzitsu is one scoop of discipline, a little bit of gatorade. So it's a half-gayor-a-a-half-a-migit. Gatorade half water mixed optional Gatorade some people they don't like Gatorade some people yeah and that's cool At all you can put lemon juice in there if you want sure Like I said the discipline the electrolytes from on it and then I want to add your greens

I'll hook you up yeah that'll be the mega mega mix that's pre-jiu jiu jitsu is there a certain time where you got to take those greens No just whenever right get them all day all day, boom so that's gonna be the pre-jjjitsu the pre lifting is essentially the same thing except you put a like a caffeinated pre-workout in it if you're into it anyway anyway back to on it that's where you get it there's a lot of cool stuff on on there you're quite a large a large human being yourself man looking good yeah but I don't sound big though thank you I respect that I'm sorry does my voice not match how I look you know I can't say because because you saw me I saw you and you started talking yeah it's kind of engraving yeah there you go maybe it's

not though had it had you not spoke i'd been like damn yeah this dude's probably fucking got a jacked voice yeah yeah like jockin or something yeah but it's melodious it's not jacked that's right i have i have a high pitch voice melodious yeah very melodious yes interesting anyway yeah got some books way the warrior kid three it's out it's called where there's a will teaching kids about how to go harder that's a little lesson in this book. You got to push harder and also teaching them about their ego and how their ego will get them in trouble. Everyone wishes they would have learned about ego earlier because it makes your life better. Of course, there's a way the warrior kid one and way the warrior kid to Mark's mission. Those books are for kids to learn to get on the path. If they're a little bit younger than that,

you can get a Mikey in the Dragons. They can learn about how to overcome their fear. There's actual pragmatic protocols that you can take as a human being to overcome what you're afraid of. Why not learn that when you're five years old? That's my question. Why not? Because you didn't know about the book, Mikey and the Dragons. Now you know about it. Your kids are just out there conquering fears, which is a positive thing.

Yeah, and that's a good one too because you can like, you know, if you have a bedtime routine and you read to your, you know, four or five year old before they can read. It's one where you can read it. Not only can you read the whole thing. If you want, because it's like a 15, 16 minute, you know, but they'll want to hear it again. So it's like a, you know, so when you're real, while you're reading it over and over again, that lesson will be, you know, ingrained and instilled in them. Deeper and deeper and deeper rather than just one of the many books.

Repetition. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Then we got the discipline equals freedom field manual. Mm-hmm. If you go, hey, Jocco, can you post your workouts? Yes, they're in the discipline equals freedom field manual.

Hey, Joccoe, what do you think you should do in a situation like this? Oh, it's in the discipline equals freedom field manual. Jockel, what do you eat? It's in the manual. What's your sleep routine? It's in the manual. Do you take naps? It's in the manual. It's all in there. So the Discipline equals Freedom Field manual, the guide to getting after it. If you want the audio version of that, it's on iTunes and Amazon music and all the MP3 things. And then of course we got extreme ownership and the dichotomy of leadership written by me and my brother, Laif Babin. Those are going to help you become a better leader in your business with your family and in your life.

Watch it happen. Of course, we have Eschelon Front, which is my leadership consultancy and what we do is solve problems through leadership. Because all the problems that you're having in your life right now in an organization are leadership problems. I don't care what they are. And if you want to solve those problems, you have to fix your leadership. And that's what we do. It's me, Laif Babin, J.P. Denele, Dave Burke. Good deal, Dave.

Yes. Flynn Cochran, Mike Sorrelli, Mike Baima, and Jason Gardner, go to Ashlonfront.com for details. We also have EF online, which is online leadership training, which is something that's hard to comprehend. How are you going to take leadership and teach people leadership from an online thing, an online training program? Well, you read about it, you take tests on it, and then you get put in scenarios, interactive, scenarios on the computer where you have to make decisions. So that's EF online. Then we

have the muster which is a leadership conference to leadership event. Gathering gathering. It's all it's all in the above. It's actually the muster is what it is. Yeah. It's a muster. It is but it's the muster. So look the muster leadership they've all sold out and they're all going to sell out the Next one is September 19th and 20th in Denver. After that, December 4th and 5th in Sydney, Australia, check out Extremeownership.com for details if you want to come. Don't wait to register because then you won't be able to go and you'll be mad at me.

And you'll send me a, like let's say you're my friend. Let's say you're someone I actually know. Sure. Hypothetically. And we're doing a muster up in San Francisco. And you send me a text that says, hey, sorry for letting you know late. You said you were going to hook me up with some tickets. It's cool. I can make it and I'm bringing two friends. Yeah, yeah. Hmm and I'm like well first of all

No because it's literally sold out. It's not like hey it's sold out but we can still let people in That's not sold out. Yeah, it's sold out. Yeah, so don't wait and then of course we have EF over watch where we take Proven combat leaders from special operations from combat aviation and put them into companies in the civilian sector That need leadership leadership is the most important thing on the battlefield. Why not get battle?? tested leaders to help out you inside your business go to eF overwatch.com and if you want to ask me a question us a question you want to give me an answer did I mess something up today probably you want to let me know about that please bring it Mitch as he said he is on Instagram Mitch underscore Agiar a G you I A-A-R a-G-U-I-A-R an echo

and I are, well, we're on Twitter and Instagram, and on dash faish bookin. Cool. Echo is at Echo Charles. And I am at Jocko Willink. Echo. Anything else? Nothing else. Thank you.

Thank you guys for having me very much. I really appreciate the hospitality and opportunity. At home. Awesome. Well, Mitch, thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. And thanks for your work in the teams. And I'm sure you're going to keep putting forth maximum effort to,

to smash people in the cage. Look forward to seeing that. And to all the other vets out there and to those that are still in uniform, thank you for standing watch over freedom for our great nation and to our police and law enforcement and firefighters and paramedics and EMTs

and dispatchers and correctional officers and Border Patrol, Secret Service, and all the first responders, I travel around the country and I run into you all the time, and I see what you're doing out there working, working hard, and the reason that we live safely here in our country is you. So thank you for holding the line here at home.

And everyone else out there, remember that you can't hit the pause button. And it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter at all if you get knocked down or you get tripped up or you think that something isn't fair. It doesn't matter. You still don't get to stop. So get back up.

Bite down on your mouthpiece and go get after it. And until next time, this is Mitch Aguier and Echo and Jocko. Out.