Jocko Podcast - 209: The Crafty Rogues of the French Foreign Legion w/ Legionnaire, Joel Struthers

Episode Date: December 25, 2019

0:0:0:00 - Opening 0:03:39 - The Foreign French Legion w/ Joel Struthers. 3:36:58 - Final thoughts and take-aways. 3:47:14 - How to stay on THE PATH. 4:11:08 - Closing Gratitude.  Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 209 with Echo Charles and me, Jocco Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. We are crafty. We are rogues. We are no ordinary men. We've often got our black moods for we are legionaires. In Tonkin, the Immortal Legion honored our flag at Tinguan.

Heroes of Cameron and model brothers. sleep in peace in your tombs our ancestors knew to die for the glory of the legion we will know to perish according to tradition during our far-off campaigns facing fever and fire let us forget along with our hardships death which forgets us so little for we are the Legion and those right there are the verses to the famous song Laboudan which is I think the most famous of the songs of the French Foreign Legion and the French Foreign Legion and the French foreign Legion is a famous hallowed military organization with a hitch history steeped in traditions of bravery and courage. And there's a lot of mystique around it.

It's also a very unique organization because the men of the French Foreign Legion generally are not French. And one of their mottos, which kind of reflects that, is Legio Patria Nostra, which translates. to the Legion is our fatherland and when I was a kid growing up I was always kind of you'd hear I heard about the French foreign Legion and there was definitely a reputation of the kind of the reputation is that you could be just a a criminal somewhere and escape prison and get to France and you could join the French Foreign Legion and that's what that's what

the French Foreign Legion was filled with. So that always had that kind of mystique around it and aura around it. And I read a book a long time ago called Lesionaire by Simon Murray, which is a great book and gives an incredible account. And Simon Murray is a fascinating guy. And I read another book that was called Mouthful of Rocks, which was by a guy named Christian Jennings and that one was is actually from a guy that the main the main theme of that book was do not join the French foreign legion he was a deser who ended up leaving it but but those books

definitely left an impression on me about the French foreign legion but today we're actually going to review another book by a legionaire it's called a Pell a French a Canadian in the French foreign legion it's written by a guy named Joel Struthers And it just turns out that we are lucky enough to have Joel here with us to discuss his book and his experiences as a legionaire. So, Joel, welcome to the show, man. Thank you, sir. It's an honor, gentlemen. Yeah, thanks for coming down.

It's, uh, how did you end up, did you send me this book? How did this connect? I did. I've, uh, I've obviously watched your, uh, I'm familiar with your, your history, your name and the, at the podcast. And yeah, it was a Hail Mary. I thought maybe I'll send him a book. And maybe, yeah, you'd take interest in the subject matter.

Yeah, as you know, marketing books these days, it takes a lot of the efforts on the write of themselves, the author. So that was, yeah, my objective was it to get it to you. And hopefully this would happen. Here we are. And again, I appreciate the opportunity. Yeah, no, it's a great book. And, I mean, like I said, opening up, the French Foreign Legion has such a mystique about

it that the opportunity to sit. down with someone that did time and and served and fought with the French Foreign Legion seemed to me an awesome opportunity. So, um, so yeah, that's, that's where it starts. Uh, and speaking of where it starts, let's get to, let's get to it, man. Um, let's get to your start. Let's do it. Did I say the word right? Appel. Yep. Is that right? Yep. Is that right? Appel. Which basically means it's, well, we get in America, we call it quarters or like a, Stand to attention or roll call. Yeah, roll call, something like that.

But doesn't it literally mean stomp your foot or something like that? It could also be used as a call-out, you know, double word. But yeah. Meaning you just yell a pal and everyone fallout. And then everyone comes and yeah, you're accounted for. You count down the lot. And that's what it's predominantly used to go for. Yeah.

Check. All right. So let's get to the book here a little bit. You say my parents met as students at Canadian Forces Base, Petawawawaw. Petawawawawawaw. Petawawa in Ontario, Canada, and started dating in grade 11. As a son of a fighter pilot in the Canadian Air Force, I lived an iterant lifestyle, moving from one CFB to another.

In 1989, when my father retired as the commanding officer of 441 tactical fighter squadron, CFB, Cold Lake, Alberta, we settled down in British Columbia, Canada. So you grew up kind of military brat, is what we call it in America. Spent most of my time in Germany. My dad flew the 104, the Widowmaker. Oh, really? Yeah. And then retired as a full colonel, or a light colonel, sorry, the CO4-4-1 F-18s.

So, yeah, it was every three years we moved. Did you have any brothers or sisters? No, Siddler. Solo operations. Loan wolf. Probably explains a lot. From my earliest days, I remember being interested in everything in the military. At school, I spent most of my time in classes drawing castles, tanks, and airplanes.

Is there anyone that didn't do that? Echo, wait, you might be the one. I think doctors and lawyers were the ones. I think doctors and lawyers were the ones. Even I did that, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's just like tanks. Yeah. Airplanes, battleships. I can still draw a pretty good tank.

Just wars. Yeah. I hear you. I trust you can't. I visited countless museums and castles and played in old trenches and bunkers all over Europe. Once I found a key in a tower of the walled city of Rothenburg in Bavaria, I was certain it would open a dungeon. My fascination with the military deepened with age. So did my interest in sports.

My mother was very athletic. She enrolled me from an early age in soccer, basketball, judo swimming and hockey. How much judo? Not enough. Good answer. There can never be enough. But were you serious about judo? No.

Hockey took over pretty much early on. Oh, that's right. You're Canadian. It was just like hockey or nothing. She was also an avid animal lover, and I became one too. Aside from my mother, my role models were predominantly fighter pilots and soldiers. My dad and his friends as well as his dad, his friend. as well as my friends, dads, and my grandfathers.

Even my hockey coaches were soldiers. The military was in my blood. And you actually, I skipped over it, but you actually have deep military blood in your family. And so that would seem like, it seemed like you got those genes. Yeah, for sure. I'm definitely in the DNA somewhere. Yeah.

Yeah. After my first season playing AAA hockey, I was invited to the Western Hockey League's Regina Pats tryout camp. But my parents didn't let me attend because my school marks were too low. The fact that I had been expelled from high school for a week for fighting helped my cause. So you were, I'm taking it, you weren't exactly the model of behavior as a child. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I wasn't a bad kid, a bad seed.

But I think I hit an age, as we all do, where I started to try to push barriers and figure out what I was made of. And being a hockey fan, there were certain type of players that I respected or wanted to emulate. And I didn't necessarily have the size or the chin to do so. So my game kind of changed, unfortunately, for me. But, yeah, that's kind of the early onset to a pal is a young man trying to figure out what he's capable of and who he is. Now, it's weird, too, that, you know, you had your dad was a, would you say he was a full coloner? I like Colonel. Retirement.

Lieutenant Colonel retired. Like some kids that grow up in that atmosphere, they become kind of on the straight and narrow path. You know what I mean? And then some kids have a little bit of that rebellion in them. It sounds like you were a little bit more on the rebellion side. Yeah, possibly. But they checked that. And I think deep down I knew what was wrong.

Like I was raised properly, had, you know, good parents. But as you do, you check, you check yourself and you're trying to figure out what you're made of. And yeah, I figured out that that wasn't me. I wasn't, you know, a badass per se. Certainly wasn't going to make the NHL with my, my. size of my hands and chin. You go on a little bit about this. You know, you talk about getting ejected for fighting a lot from hockey games.

And then you say that the trouble started when I was fresh out of Langley Secondary School without hockey, experience a loss of direction, a mix of immaturity, trying to impress friends and girls and reacting to other idiots all took their toll. I was hanging out the wrong crowd and these so-called friends were leading me nowhere. The final twist in my downward spiral came when I was confronted by. Y-A-R-C-M-P, Royal Canadian Mountain Police, special investigation officer, revolver drawn. I was lucky I didn't end up in prison.

What happened? Check. I don't think the why matters. Or the what? It's more the why. It was nothing, you know, I'm sure imaginations will flow. There is no, it's not drug-related. It's not, you know, anything.

But it was dumb enough that the police took interest in my association with certain people. And, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't charged or anything, but it was a good kick in the ass. I experienced sitting down with my father who was visibly upset at the fact that potentially I'd be going to jail, ruin your life. And that, yeah, that's set me straight. Seeing that reaction was sobering, I guess would be the word. And from there, I took ownership. And there you go.

Good call. Yeah, this is a big point. You know, you say here, I realized that I needed to change and fast. So I contacted the Canadian Armed Forces Recruitment Center in Vancouver. Unfortunately, Canadian Armed Forces were no longer accepting applicants for regular force infantry positions. My only option was to join a Canadian Reserve Unit and hope to be at the front of the recruitment line when the regular forces started to expand. So, I mean, you get to this point, and this is, man, it's so, you're lucky, right? You're actually lucky that this guy drew down on you.

You're lucky that you did something bad enough to get you to a point where you said, all right, this is not going to end well. And not every kid gets that opportunity. And it'd be nice if a kid like listening to this right now can foresee that they're going to end up in that position and just go, okay, you know what, I need to change. I need to make a change right now. Because I know, man, the best thing that happened in my life was joining the military. I would have been a total loser. I would have just ended up doing, I was just doing dumb stuff

and I would have just continued down that path. And I don't know if I had a moment in time like you did where I said, okay, I got to stop this, but I definitely looked around at the people I was hanging around with and said, yeah, this isn't going to end up well. It'd be nice if kids that are 15, 16, 17, 17, 18, 19 years old

instead of waiting for that, moment to arrive where they realize that, A, they're not as smart as they think they are, and B, the direction that they're heading is not going to end up well that they go, you know what, I need to kind of change direction here. And boy, the military offers, especially, I mean, it's crazy, too. Like, in Canada, you can't even join regular force infantry. I mean, let's face it, America, I'm not saying you can be, they'll take anyone, but if you want to be a grunt in the Army or the Marine Corps, like, there's a decent chance that you can do it.

Yeah, fair one. And this, keep in mind, this is early 90s. So nothing was going on. The government at the time was, you know, checking their budgets. So it was cost cutting. So, yeah, there wasn't an opportunity to go reg for us. There's other positions, like a radar tech or Navy, whatever, but I wasn't, you know, unfortunately, I had a VHS tape of Hambre Hill, and I watched the shit out of that thing. And I was all about the infantry, you know. And my grandfather, who was my dad's dad, third wave, Juno Beach, he had given me, I didn't. put in the book, but he'd given me a jump smog from 1001st airborne soldier pre-D-day. So when they're in England training. And I wore, I wore that. And I think that was the jump in me that, you know what I mean? I was, but yeah, I agree to your point, the military and certainly the Legion, got my shit together. And that's a big reason for the book is I owe the Legion and France a lot for myself for how

it changed my life. And that was my effort was to give something back, albeit small, it certainly showed my appreciation. So when you sign up, you say, I signed up with the Royal Westminster Regiment, Westies based in New Westminster, British Columbia. The Westies were assigned to support Canadian airborne regiment, setting me on the path to become a paratroop or something I was interested in. So this is you're a reservist. That's correct. So you still go to boot camp. Yeah, you do the same battle school. Basic is different, but you go and do the same battle school. And from there, you'd support the PPCLI if they had any taskings over.

sees or whatever he would be that's the way the Canadian military was working that would be one third percent would be reservist militia in our case so that that was the objective and then if positions came available for a reg force you would be top of the list to get into the get in there and then they end up what they end up disbanding this regiment yeah so Somalia the Canadian Airborne Regiment they they had that incident in Somalia and it resulted in them being disbanded which incident yeah they there was a they caught a local trying to steal food and it's on their and he was I think there's four soldiers they tortured him and in the end he died and that got into the media and obviously as a result the government disbanded the complete Regiment

So while that was happening all jump courses were put on standby and us as a regiment we were retasked to be anti-tank Basically which was a hard moment for the regiment and wasn't obviously appealing and for me that was you know, I was I was gone I was that was had a full and something else. You mentally checked out. Yeah. And I called, actually, I called the Marine Corps recruiter. And, uh, yeah.

And the, what did they, can Canadians do? Well, at the time, no, you'd have to go through the whole process of applying for a green card.

So it'd take, he said like two years minimum. Uh, so I was like, you know, you're young and zero patience. Two years is like the rest of your entire life. You can never wait two years. Yeah.

But you could do it actually. So if there's a young Canadian right now, that's thinking Marine Corps. Well, I think now it's a lot easier. But again, at the time, there wasn't a lot going on, so they're a little more selective.

But yeah, that's where I was told. Two years, minimum. All right. So then you say during my time at PPCLI Battle School, one of our NCOs mentioned that a colleague of his had recently returned from France after serving in the French Foreign Legion's Parachute Regiment. I was intrigued. True, I had heard of the Legion before, but never really thought more of it or took it seriously,

to be honest. But more recently, the idea of being able to join an airborne regiment in a foreign country piqued my sense of adventure. something that was seriously lacking in my life. I eventually wrote to the French Foreign Legion's headquarters in France, expressing my interest in joining. This brought a quick reply from the Legion. So you write them a letter.

Yep. And then they write you back? So I actually went down to the French consulate in Vancouver and went to the front desk and asked the question. Kind of a strange look that I got back from the nice lady, but they gave me an address. And yeah, I wrote a letter. And a letter came back with all the,

information needed to join. So I read that a million times and yeah, I was like, I'm going. How's it? How do you say the Legion Entranger in French?

So it's Les Gents etrangers. Oh God, I'm not going to try that. I'm not going to try it. So the French War and Legion is known the world over and fixed in the popular minds are images of legionnaires wearing the characteristic white Kepi, is that right?

Kepi caps trudging across African deserts under merciless sun to defend an outpost. These men were petty thieves and criminals with dark pasts, as well as deserters from foreign armies who had found a new home and life in the ranks of the Legion. Some would call these men mercenaries. What caught my attention, though, were history books filled with black and white pictures of the Legion's first battalion,

Etranger de parachutists. Nicely done. Nailed it. So do you say BEP or do you say BEP? BEP, exactly. So the first BEP and the second battalion Etranger de parachutists, or second Bep, jumping in French, Indochina.

The Legion I was interested in joining had evolved into a modern elite fighting force. So I was restless and not willing to settle for average life. my mind was made up, I was going to join the French Foreign Legion. Dad looked at me sternly and shook my hand. He wished me luck saying, call us when you get the chance. I made my way to the train station to continue my journey to Stratzburg, France. Second thoughts, anxiety, and excitement were fighting in my mind, but there was no way I was turning back.

And I always have to say this. Obviously, I'm not reading this whole book right now. I'm skipping over big chunks where you have really interesting details. You kind of spell it out like your dad was airline. pilots you had the opportunity to get over there and this is when you get and the reason I think I highlighted this was because once again I think a lot of people that listen to this are well they're young individuals thinking about joining the military I was going to say young men but I just met a female in Australia that was like oh I joined the Air Force because your podcast I'm in

the Air Force right now she's like from listening to your podcast and I was like oh that's awesome So young people when they're thinking about joining the military and they have exactly what you have, second thoughts, anxiety and excitement. We're all fighting because you're excited to do it, but then you're scared. You're nervous. So I guess my point in saying this is that it's pretty normal to have those feelings. True. Albeit I'm in France.

I can't go home. So there's that difference. Yeah. All right. If I may interject, my grandfather, my mom's dad, who retired a three-star, before I left, he was my hero, as I mentioned in the end of the book, one of the DSO. He had said to me, are you sure?

And when I said, yes, I'm sure this is what I'm doing. He said, well, if you do, go there and represent your country well. So I always had that in the back of mind as, you know, as soon as I knocked on that door, I was representing Canada somewhat. And yeah, but I, as I mentioned the book, I sat there. across the street for a good chunk of time. Looking at that door thinking, damn, I've got myself.

Quit the situation here, but it's time to pull through. Yeah, you're at the Stroudsburg train station, waved down a taxi driver and rusty French. How good was your French? I took it, the Canadian military school system is French immersion, so I took, which is basically half English, half French. I took that to grade eight. So I had a good base, which I think was a huge factor in my decision.

and go, that's a challenge if you don't speak the language. In rusty French, he explained my destination to the driver of the Legion's recruitment depot. Looking surprised, he turned to me and asked, are you certain? La Lijon is a tough life. When I said, yes, he replied, you crazy?

Then he turned back around, put the car in gear, and accelerated into Strausburg's evening traffic. How proud were you to say, take me to the Legion? I mean, when I was a kid, I remember we got this, when we got done with the, dive phase of seal training they gave us this little US Navy qualified diver card and it and the

specification I think it said 5320 which meant we were in still in training because 5326 would be you're a seal but 5320 and then it said like in parentheses something like combat diver and so we got this card I mean I'm 19 years old and I pretty much thought I was the coolest guy like if somebody needed to see my ID maybe I'd have to use that out Hell yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But even just that right there of, yeah, feeling.

How did that feel? I think I was more thinking about what's coming next. Couldn't really give a shit about the taxi driver, you know. But, yeah. Yeah. Me, I wanted to impress that taxi driver. Take me to the Legion. Yeah, man, when you're 19, 18, you're dumb.

Well, maybe you sounds like you were smarter than I. Well, I was a bit older. 22. I was a little bit older. But I wasn't. I was still dumb. Yeah. There's no question.

The Strausburg Legion recruitment depot was a first World War era, whitewashed three-story building facing a large parade ground, a partially abandoned barracks. It's now used as a post-de-recruitment of La Légion Le Tranger. Am I saying that right? Yes, sir. With the Cold War over, there was no longer a need for large military units

and therefore sprawling military barracks. The entrance to the PRLE was a metal door set into a three meter high wall topped with razor wire. A solitary light glared down from above. Inscribed on the door were three words. Legio Patriot Nostra. How do you say that? Legion Patria Nostra.

Okay. The Legion is our fatherland. Which is a bold statement. You know, it's their way of saying, you're going to be from all these different countries. But those aren't your fatherland anymore. Your father land is now in the Legion. So yeah, then you talked about your stalling, sitting across the street,

looking at the door, knowing that after you go in there. Suck it up, man. Just go for it. You came all this way. But yeah, I definitely. How long did you sit there for? I think it was more than an hour. Enough time to get bored of sitting there.

Yeah. Last moments of freedom. How much Intel did you? you have? Not much because that was the issue of this pre-internet, really. There was Legion era that you mentioned the book, which I had read. And that was definitely a big part of my joining. I read the mouthful of rocks, but again, as you mentioned, deserter didn't take into account. I thought it was just, you know, someone writing their own narrative. And then the history books, you know, seeing the, the BEPS jumping in Indochina and then Algeria.

That for me was the main, I guess, history and knowledge that I could gain. Um, And from there, it was just mostly visually. You know, that looked cool. I'm going. Yeah. There wasn't a ton of more. What about Intel as far as what the indoctrination phases were going to be like? I didn't know much.

Whatever the books talked about. And all that being said, Legionnaire was the 60s. That was the French Indochina or the French Algerian War. So time had passed. But I didn't know much. That was the big question mark is what comes next. Same for me going to seal training. Nowadays, obviously, you can pretty much observe seal training

on YouTube. You can see what's going on. I had no, zero idea. There was one like 15 minute video that the recruiter would show, but it didn't show you very much. And I don't know whether that's better or worse

because you don't even know. You just, like you said, you get ready to suck it up and just whatever they throw at me is fine. You have, you can't even look at the long term suffering because you don't even know what's going to come.

And at that age, we don't think much far ahead, do we? It's just more action. Yeah, no. And as I was saying, before we started recording, like, I didn't care what they were going to do to me. It didn't matter.

Even if they were going to kill me, it was like, okay, well, bring it. Yeah. And at that point, I did know, too, that this wasn't a given. You don't just show up and join. They take everybody. There was a selection process. I think the big one for me was, you know, get in because I didn't want to go back with the tail between my legs saying I didn't even get in.

You know what I mean? That would be a huge. Yeah. Yeah. Issue for me. Yeah, you don't want to go back and see your grandfather. Yeah, I didn't even get in. The French foreign legion, like that hell.

Yeah. So here we go. I stood up enough stalling. I told myself, I crossed the street, walked to the door, rang the doorbell. It didn't make any noise. After what seemed like minutes, a large man taller than me and a lot more imposing, dressed in khaki, green, army combat uniform, finally opened the door. He asked to see my passport.

I handed it to him. You joined Legion. He asked in broken English. We, I replied. He glanced at my passport again. Canadian, we. And so then you roll in and they put in a video cassette. That was giving you basically the outline of the Legion's history.

Yeah. They had a cassette for every language in the old VHS machine and old TV, and you sit there for whatever. It took 25 minutes and you just watch their presentation on what you're about to join. So that was actually my first real bit of lessons on the totality of what the Legion was. But in it there was shots of the rep jumping. And so I was just like, yeah, we're good. I don't need to watch this tape.

But you got to. You're not going to say shit to the gentleman that put it in. Cary's on a bit. Why do you want to join the Legion? I want a soldier. I replied, no one can do a poker face like a Foreign Legion recruitment NCO. Without speaking, he placed a document in front of me that stated my acceptance into the pre-volunteer phase of the Legion's initial five-year contract.

He motioned for me to sign it, marking my first major step into the ranks of the Legion. I was aware of the initial five-year commitment. The letter I received from the Legion prior to the Legion, prior to flying to France clearly outlined what was expected. Without hesitation, I leaned forward and signed the document. It was September 8th, 1994. So there you go. You're in.

Ish. Well, you're in for if you make it through the selection phase. Yeah, correct. Is that just the initial? Yeah. And the weird thing is you're in, I mean, we'll talk more about it, but there's people deserting all the time. like just like just leaving escaping basically which is kind of funny yeah yeah because and you know

you we'll cover it but you don't want a guy that that wants to leave you don't want a guy that's not doesn't want to be there to be there no and they've been doing this for a long time they know what it takes and the right type of candidate to choose so that's the first step they look at the basic information that they have and they go from there and they've been fairly successful at what they do So now you go to Obagna. Obying, correct. Obying. Obying.

So they do a pre-medical exam prior to that. So they really checked the sound of body and all that kind of stuff to make sure that you physically fit. And then off you go to Obying. Did you say, did you say, like, if you had broken bones you couldn't join? Yeah, bad teeth was a big one too. Yeah, they look for the basics. Any scars showing, you know, previous injuries. What do you mean bad teeth?

Like crooked teeth? Yeah, I don't know what exactly they looked for it, but they spent a lot of time. We sit in a dentist chair and they go at it and guys were cut because they had bad teeth. Now, I don't know if that shows bad bone structure, bad DNA, or it's going to cause them problems down the road where they have to do dental work. Especially overseas, I think that's, they take teeth into consideration. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So now you end up in Obagna.

Correct. Am I getting that right? That's correct, yeah. We joined groups of volunteers from other recruitment centers, numbering well over 100 and lined up. in single file on the parade square opposite the basement entrance of a single story building. Our wallets, money, and watches were taken away and sealed inside individually labeled manila envelopes. Clothes and shoes were also taken from us and stored either in military duffel bags or

if deemed adequate our civilian bags. We were then issued personal toiletries, t-shirts, a pair of white sports shorts, socks, underwear, a single towel, and a small padlock for our personal locker in the barracks rooms. Those without proper running shoes were handed hard-sold Adidas runners. Around us, men were speaking in a variety of languages unfamiliar to me. All orders were and other information were given in French and quickly translated to the others by those who understood. So this is your kind of standard boot camp scenario. We're going to get rid of your get rid of your individuality somewhat. Still at the recruiting phase. So we're not

Even when you do get chosen, you go off and do your basic, which is four months at another regiment. This is just screening, really. So still screening. Yeah. So all the different recruitment sites that they have in France, they all ship the volunteers to O'Bying. And then they start doing their triage, basically, would be the right word. And from there, they'll do their selection, background checks, more medical stuff, physical fitness reviews. And from there, they'll pick their legionnaires, yeah, or to be.

Yeah. to be attempted. Correct, yeah. The final phase of the evaluation referred to as the Gestapo was the most discussed among potential recruits. The officer and NCOs

conducting that this phase were from the Legionaire's internal security. This immediately dispelled one of the Legion's greatest myths, no questions asked. In fact, the Gestapo asked plenty of questions and dug deep,

clearing our names through Interpol. So that, what I was saying earlier about how you could be this random criminal and just go join the French Foreign Legion in your past is raised. It's not like that, apparently. Not anymore. Originally back when it was initially designed, it was to have soldiers to go do France's dirty work that weren't French.

So they would take whoever they could or they would give criminals the opportunity to not serve their time in prison and join the Legion. But, you know, as the Legion grew and became a little more professional and a part of the French military, then it was a different system. They basically selected what they could, the best of what showed up. So this is the process they start doing there. through background checks and make sure that you need a valid passport obviously no major criminal offenses and then have the physical attributes to make a good soldier and they take one in one in twelve i think when i was there one and twelve applicants get through now it's more one in fifteen wow yeah so that's one and twelve that actually show up yeah correct yeah the biggest groups hailed from the former eastern block countries russia poland ukraine romania hung hung hungers Slovakia and Czech Republic. We commonly refer to them as

Les communists, the communists, which I got a kick out of them. And this is when it's the 90s, so the walls come down. There's a lot of guys coming down to join just to get a meal ticket and to get out of tough times up across the old wall. Yeah. When they get done, when you get done,

do you become a French citizen when you're done? You can apply. I didn't, for example. But yeah, you can apply. It's not a given. If you're injured in battle, you are giving friends citizenship. But yeah, most of the people will apply after five years, and they're pretty good at issuing. Three weeks in, it was a great relief that I was called out of the ranks with several others

and issued secondhand combat pants, jacket, a belt, and boots. Our heads were shaved and we moved to a cramped, smelly building in the volunteer compound, which we spent our time trying to clean. A few days later, several of us from the group were issued. a red plastic epaulet. We were now rouge, signifying that we had passed the Legion recruitment process, and we were bound for basic training. Now known as Les Ruges,

we passed individually before a colonel in the Regiments HQ to sign our initial five-year contract with the Legion. We also received our Legion service numbers. Mine was 185-689. Yeah, so we're through. So I'm in. And that was probably the worst part of my experience in the least not that it was a bad experience, but that was definitely the least enjoyable. What just the whole?

Yeah, the atmosphere processing. I don't know what prison's like, but that was kind of my my go-to experience. Yeah. You know, there's just a bunch of meatheads around. Everyone's kind of, you don't know what's happening. Yeah. And it wasn't. And they're only taking one out of every 12.

Yeah. Yeah. And then every day, there'll be a roll call. They'll yell out a whole bunch of names and those guys, you're out. You just go off to the side to go back and get your kit, and they'll send you back to your original. spot that you applied and that's it you're done. So every day you'd be in roll call and you'd be just hoping your name didn't get called.

And how long was this time period? It took about a month for this to happen now. It varies. And then there's another, you say at this point a Legion myth was dispelled for a short administrative period of time. We were alms-s-s-n-nom, men without names. And those who needed an alias would be

provided with one. And so it used to be that you could just go in there and change your name. And it sounds like you still could if you wanted to. Yeah. But it's not mandatory. Exactly. So for the eastern countries, it's illegal for them to serve in a foreign military. So for that reason

the leads will issue them a false name. Typically a Swiss, based on a Swiss passport, Canadian passport. And they use that for a duration of their career before they can go through an administrative process to get their name back. In my case, I was Canadian. It's not an issue, so I kept my name.

So, but if the country finds out what that name is, and they call and ask the Legion is, you know, Simon Murray, in your ranks, they'll have to say yes. So it's up to you to maintain the anonymity, I guess, would be the word. It was alarming how quickly I'd become detached from my previous life and tethered to a new one that was still being shaped, while cleaning the center, two guys in our group were caught speaking Polish to each other. Although talking in any language besides French had been,

accepted over the past few weeks we soon learned that it was no longer tolerated to demonstrate his displeasure our corporal need one of the poles in his midsection and then ordered him to do push-ups while he was doing push-ups the corporal kicked him in his ribs demanding that he pick up the pace this was our first taste of the legions discipline and a revelation indeed so yeah our corporal's a sergeant and our corporal showed up from the catchgram alir which is the training regiment that we'll be going to and this is them taking us for a run and or taking us out. And that's where we see the first sign of what's to come. It was interesting. I thought it was actually kind of cool. I don't know that sounds right, but it's more like, yeah, this is, you know. Yeah.

My experience in the cannon military was good, but it wasn't tough, if that's the right word. And this seemed to me like the right attitude. And plus you just spent like, whatever, three or four weeks in this kind of jail scenario and not doing any real training. And then all of a sudden, it's starting. It's starting.

So you got momentum. It's, you're going, you're in the right direction. So it's all good. Isn't it interesting that that's just in your mind, you're thinking right on? Because that's what I'm thinking. I'm like, yeah. Or especially if they deserve it. Yeah, yeah, well, for sure.

Yeah. And it's, as I said, they know what they're doing. This is how they weed out the week or those that aren't meant to be there. If you can't handle the need of the gut and some kicks of the side, you know, look good are you in the trenches. shit goes wrong you know we're good of you in life exactly own it yeah awesome now let's see I think this is when you get to a Castel correct saying that right yep so the Castell is this is where sort of we're starting that is the real treatment yeah correct basic

training our first lesson in how life would be as a recruit in Castel came via a ritual known as a Pell all 25 of us lined up in the hallway along the wall shoulders touching we then counted off in French each yelling the number the next number in succession to ensure all section members were present and accounted for the corporal prowled up and down the ranks inflicting immediate punishment in the form of a slap to the face or a knee to the stomach if there was a miscount at one point Alistair after receiving a verbal lashing and a hard open-handed slap across the face for getting his number wrong said to the corporal but I don't speak French

corporal I couldn't help but laugh just a little it's the French foreign legion after all I was damn lucky to have basic French knowledge on my side. Appel would become a routine in our lives. Its intent was to quickly identify anyone who might have decided to desert. It was also a fast and effective way to gather a section together to issue orders. Our first morning appell, Alistair and a Norwegian were missing. Deserted. Apparently they had jumped the regiment wall just hours prior. This seems strange to me. Like what had they been expecting with basic training? They hadn't even lasted 24 hours in Castell. morning, noon, and night, our section, now 23 men, would form up and march from the company barracks to the mess hall.

A corporal would set the pace calling out the slow Legion pace at 88 steps per minute. During the first few days, our attempt to maintain the timing, as well as the proper intervals between our rows were ragged. In hindsight, it was comical. The other corporals positioned at our size attempted to instill order by yelling at us and hitting anyone who fell out of step. whether being struck and shouted at helped anyone improve was debatable. So this is where it kicks off

and if you see the French Foreign Legion marching, you guys march at 88 beats per minute which is like a third maybe or a quarter slower than a normal march. Is that harder? Is that out of sync with normal walking pace? It is, yeah, I think that's the challenge is you got to slow yourself down.

And then they introduce it music will get there. Yeah. When it wasn't possible for us to do a single more push-up, again, I'm fast-forwarding, but when it wasn't possible for us to do a single more push-up, we were made to assume stress positions in push-up stance, knees off the ground with our asses in the air. Anyone who faltered and dropped was kicked until he managed to regain his stance. Yes.

Yeah, so there's not, I mean, there's nothing mean about it. They're just trying to figure out whether or not you want to be there. And if you don't, well, you know. Well, that being said, you got to do your four months of basic. You can decide to leave at the end of basic. But they're definitely putting the pressure on early. Yeah. And if people desert, they know, but they don't.

You've done them a favor, really. Yeah, you made it easy for them. Exactly. The punishments varied and largely came down to the corporal's imagination, which I can only imagine what that ends up looking like. So then when did you go to the farm? When does that happen? Once we had 50, the next group showed up.

So I think it was there for a couple weeks before we were a complete section. And then off you go. So then you go to a place called the farm. And here you say the next four weeks would be our first real challenge and basic training. It's supposed to weed out anyone deemed unfit for the Legion. We would be presented with our white kepis only when we completed the farm. And that was super foreign to me coming from the Canadian system. be a short. You know, they had said, we're, you guys, we'd be going to the farm for a month.

I was like, you know, what? And, uh, yeah, it was, it was definitely an eye opener, but effective. Well, what, what part was, was strange to you? Well, just the term farm, like I was, well, you know, we're going to go farming. Um, and then we show up and it actually looks like a French farming building and landscape around it. But, um, it's an effective tool. You're there for a month and you just get beasted on. And they show you the way of, of the Legionaire. And if you can hack it, Good for you if not. Off you go. How often are people quitting?

We had a handful, probably every week one or two, would desert. Yeah. And it was kind of, as I mentioned, kind of an understood thing. If it's not for you and you dessert, off you go.

If the gendarmes pick you up, they would be sent back to the Legion, they'd do their time in the jail and then they'd release them. It's not like there's any criminal aspect to it. But yeah, it's just part of the system. You weed out the week. And they start to build that,

teamwork here based on this kind of thing back to the book any error collective or individual resulted in shared punishment we were only as good as our weakest member so those who were stronger had best helped the less capable but those of us who were stronger and more capable soon lost patience when the guys making our days a lot harder it wasn't long before a clear hierarchy of ability became evident within our group yeah same they're really trying to figure out who's who's supposed to be there. The tough routine brought the expected result during our first week and other Brit and Australian and a New Zealander from the latest group to join were missing at morning appell. Once again, the realization that they had deserted struck me as odd. The corporal's reactions were

minimal. Ultimately, no one wants a deserer in the ranks. And then you could get to this. We were broken down into binombs. Am I saying that right? B. Bnomes. or groups of two. This is a tradition that dates back to the Roman legions whereby two soldiers were designated to guard each other's backs and battles.

And in seal training, we have swim buddies, which is the same thing. Like in the Marine Corps in the Army, I think they call them battle buddies, but... Yep. So that's another word for you need a...

You need a swim buddy, you need a partner at all the time. You had another partner at all time, and that was hunger. Hunger was a constant companion. The combination of physical fitness, long hours in the classroom, and seemingly endless pushups took its toll on everyone. How much did you guys eat?

Enough. We definitely weren't eating enough to compensate for the calories you were burning, but that was also part of it trying to turn us down and get us into the right shape. In reference the deserters, I think I mentioned that it seemed like it was more that the Brits, the Kiwis, the Aussies, the Western era, you know, the non-eastern blockers that were deserting. And I think that's because they had something to go home too. They have it easier at home. Where's Eastern block is where are they going to go?

You know, they got no choice. So it's an effective system, but it's not perfect because, you know, potentially losing good soldiers, but they're just not ready to put up with certain bullshit. Early on. And now we get to, I think, what, well, marching songs. Marching songs are an important Legion tradition. And throughout its history, regiments have marched into battle singing. Most songs tell the stories of former campaigns in battles,

Although I respected the legions history, I disliked singing as it was completely alien to my concept of what soldiering should be. My previous exposure to army life had been an entirely different experience. So you guys are singing these songs. Here's an example. I won't do the French version. I'll read the English, the English translation, against the vets, against the enemy, wherever duty calls. Soldiers of France, soldiers of the country. We march toward the front.

Legionnaires, the battle that begins. places enthusiasm and courage in our souls. It may rain grenades and gravel. Our victory will be sweeter. But if death strikes us down, if our bloody fingers stiffen on the ground, one last raid, farewell, and tomorrow, we will wish to train. Despite the bullets and the shells under fire and bombs, we will advance toward the same goal, ignoring the call of the grave.

Roger. No, I should talk it, but I respect it, and it has its place and its purpose. And it's effective. And that's, you know, that's the history of the legion. So it's, it's what they, what they do and what they use. They, I mean, there's, what do they call that? There's some, there's some thing where you say the same thing over and over again. Start to believe it.

Yeah, you start to believe it. I believe it's just called straight up brainwashing. Yeah, I think you're right. Right. And it's effective. Yeah, there's some, but yeah, that's what they're doing, right? You're singing these songs. The cadences that we used to sing.

We sang some cadences that were completely not okay, meaning they were just over the top with just wrong. And they don't do them anymore. It's been interesting. I went back and I talked to guys like, oh, do you guys still sing that cadence? Kind of thinking to myself, they probably don't and they don't. There's cadences that they banished because they were so bad.

But there's still cadences that you sing in like things like this. Hey, this is what we do. But it builds cohesion. There's the teamwork. It's learning, figuring it out together, you know, pulling along the weakest link. But when you do finally get it, you start marching together collectively as a group, there is that pride. Like, yeah, we nailed us, we got it. And it's effective. And as I mentioned, you know, we march into the regiment. Four weeks later as a cohesive group in step, singing in the right tune. And it's impressive that they can do that in a short amount of time with, you know, all these different nationalities. and people who don't speak French, they have different alphabets.

Like, it's an effective system. Yeah, yeah, no, the learning French part has got to be huge. Yeah, especially for the Russians. I mean, they had different alphabet. We had Koreans. I mean, I had it easy. And I say that. Having that base made it hell of a lot easier for me.

I don't have to worry, but I could just focus on the soldiering and the not getting beasted on. How good does someone's French get in four weeks? Or I guess now it's been what? Eight weeks that they've been here. Depends on the individual. Obviously, there's some that pick it. up quicker than others. If you're cleaning toilets all the time and working in the kitchen,

you might want to put a little more effort into it. There's certain nationalities like the Romanians that have that Latin base that pick it up quite well. And yeah, it's down to each individual to put in the time and effort. What about just fast forward real quick three years down the line. Does everyone fluent in French? Yeah, quicker than that. By the time you're done basic you have and that's part of the system within those four months, you have a basic level of French before you can go to the next step to your regiments. And that be said, about a third of the men in the ranks are also French. So what they'll do, as I mentioned in the book, is they'll put those who speak French,

you'll be a B-in-home with a non-French speaker, and you have to assist. And if they're not pulling out. So what did they class you as? Yeah, I was given that. So I was given a couple of anglophones, a Brit, to help out. And if they're not pulling their weight, I'm cleaning toilets and working in the kitchen with them. So the onus is there to get them along with that.

Even with the Brit, you guys have a common language because you can transfer to English. Yeah. Right. But you could be with a Korean that speaks no English. And then it's just. And we would be in the classroom with Sergeant Schmidt that we mentioned there or others. And they would just teach you him, fork, fork. Fucking figure it out.

Fork. If you don't, you know, the old open hand would come and you would learn fork. Yeah. Foch. There you go. Or kuto knife, I guess. Wrong choice. Yeah, you say it seemed like we spent more time singing than soldiering each song or songs

So the tune matches the slow pace of the Legion's march in some cases secondary singers are assigned specific tenor choruses filling in the background Most of the recruits agreed that Legion training was far from what we had expected the emphasis on singing and the constant hunger that nodded our guts didn't help We were blissfully ignorant of the fact that this was all part of the training Things improved somewhat when we started concentrating on elementary combat skills. We also started marching for several hours a night as a complete section with our FAM. How do you, what do you say there? Fumas. Fumas.

So you say Fumas, which is your weapon, webbing and backpacks. With each passing march, the duration extended until we spent most of a night marching, passing through local villages, forests, and fields. I enjoyed the marches and didn't find them too difficult, but some of the guys developed large blisters from the friction of our stiff leather boots. Nobody showed them much sympathy. Suffer in silence, that was the attitude.

Cumulative fatigue meant we were usually in a state of semi-sleep simply following the man in front of us. So you guys are humping. Yeah. How many clicks were you doing tonight? I can't, you know, I don't, to be honest, I don't remember the exact number. enough to

it would progressively increase you know once we get our legs and behind us and we'd be marching all night get back early and the next NCO will be there saying glad you had a good night's sleep let's get to it yeah oldest trick in the

oh no yeah exactly we all fall for it what what do you do? In the Marine Corps like the drill instructors they change shirts so you never see them sweating So it doesn't matter what they're doing.

They'll come in looking totally fresh. Good to go. Smart. Continuing on our time. Again, skipping through a bunch of stuff here. Our time at the farm was finished. In the final three days, involved a forced march,

meaning a march of longer duration than we had been used to. It was called La March Kepi, because it was after this that you earned the right to wear the coveted white Kepi and be promoted to the rank of Legionaire Duzimir. What's that? Second class.

exactly. Did I say that right? Do you say that? Dozym. Duzium. Yeah. Class, second class, legionaire. Then you guys are sort of in a graduation and someone steps forward and reads the

first line of the Legionnaire's Code of Honor. Benny. And then the rest of you. What is that? Benny, the Scott. Oh, he was the guy that. Yeah. Was that mean he was the honor grad or something?

Yeah. Yeah. Eventually quit, but. Yeah. So you guys step. forward and here's the Legionnaires code Legionaire you are a volunteer serving France with honor and loyalty every Legionaire is your brother in arms irrespective of his nationality race or religion you will show him the same solidarity as that

which bonds a family respectful of traditions loyalty or commanders discipline and camaraderie are your force courage and loyalty your virtues proud of your status You express this through your uniform always smart your behavior dignified but modest and your quarters always clean As an elite soldier you train rigorously You maintain your weapon as your most precious possession and you're always mindful of your physical condition The mission is sacred you will execute to the end at all costs In combat you act without emotion or hatred you respect the defeated enemy

And you never abandon your dead, you're wounded, or your weapons. After completing the code, we were ordered to place our Kepi's on our heads, and the order was given to present arms to the commanding officer. We were now legionaires. A pretty awesome code there. Yeah. Has its place in history? Definitely.

It's interesting. They got that last line in there in combat. You act without emotion or hate. You respect the defeated enemy and you never abandon your dead. You're wounded. It's interesting that respecting the defeated enemy. I wonder when that was added. Do you know?

I don't. Definitely you're representing France, the flag. So your actions, well, they speak for themselves. I don't know exactly. Historically, when that was added. Yeah. So now it's time to check in. Right?

Check in with third company, third section. With your regiment. So basic continues. We basically have three months left. Oh, really? Yeah. So it's, yeah, you finish the farm and then you go back to Kustel for three months. And then you start your training as a Legionaire, as an infantryman.

And they basically set you up. So depending on what regiment you go to, you have the base skills needed for them to work with you. So when you go to third company, third section, are you still in basic training? Yeah, that's still basic training. Yeah. So you're still not, you're still not done yet. No. No.

What's the total training time? it's going to take? Four months. Okay. I think that's, yeah, it's about the same time as maybe the Marine Corps boot camp.

Marine Corps boot camp's 13 weeks. So that, and that just completes more of your kind of basic military training. Yeah, you're getting more into the infantry's type of stuff. Okay, so you are doing combat skills. Yeah.

And then... Yeah, the farm was just the beastie, to show you what a legionaire should deal with and take. there's not a lot of, as you know, there's the basics, but it's not, it's just more about the discipline. Right.

Learning the tools of the trade. And then when you get back to the regiment for the last three months, then it's more focused on the soldiering. Actually becoming learning the tactical skills. Exactly. And then you're assigned to the sports monitor course and the military driver course. And then you're going to get sent to a second rep.

So explain that to me. So I finished first. And hats off, I mentioned Benny. He was an ex-British soldier served in, over in Ireland. A good guy, and he was my, you know, go-to during training. You know, he had his history and stories, and he had a bad knee, so he decided. At the end of your basic training, you can decide to call her quits. And he did.

And we had a, you know, I think about 17 that did. I don't remember the exact figure I mentioned. But there was a chunk that decided it wasn't for them. I finished first. and generally how it works is depending on where you finish, you can pick and decide where you want to go, the different regiments. In the Legion, there's one airborne regiment, the rep,

and that was my choice, my only choice. However, because I had finished first and I had the French, the language ability, they wanted me to stay on as a foot foot. Now, it's in the book. We have these acting corporals that aren't corporals, but they've been given that grade or ability based on their language.

language or language skills and they could be fox I'm not allowed to say that some them took advantage of their their authority and dealt out punishment which was unfair because they haven't done shit so they had a bad name for themselves and we all picked up on that and we had one in particular that I had no time for and never ran into again which is probably a good thing but they wanted me to stay as a foot foot and I think my head NCO could tell based on my reaction that wasn't I didn't want that. I didn't come all this way to be a foot foot.

I wanted to go to the rep. So they came up with the solution was if I went and did my sports monitor course, I could go to the rep after. What's the sports monitor course? It's basically in the regiment, you'll have your sports bureau. And they dictate, you know, just the athleticism of all the Legionnaires.

They do all the planning for sports events. Yeah, basically just run the sports bureau. So that would be a course that gave you that qualification to be a part of the regiment sports bureaus. Got it. So you're learning more about the physical training. So when you get to a regiment you can go hey Joel you got this you know set up our physical training make sure we're good to go So I was able you know I had the the athleticism and I was able to you know do well enough that they I guess saw the

That part of of me as a soldier and that was the option I was given and I took it And then we graduated number one what's that baby that's based on just a every I think it looks that you're great general I just uh just across the board they at the end they have an evaluation. What were you good at? I could run. It started to come on. I was heavier when I joined, you know, being Canadian Hawkins, I had a bit of muscle. I mean, they told me down pretty good. So I picked up the running I did well. And the big staple physical side for the Legion is the eight-kilometer run with rucksack and weapon. You actually do a 1,500 meter sprint. There's a thing, a five-minute break, and then you do eight kilometers.

There's that. There's the rope. Then there's the obstacle. course and you know I was able to to do well on those so with that on the range I was consistent obviously I had the the language my kit was in gear you know I wasn't a problem was there anything that you were not good at anything you struggled with singing I could but yeah it was not my forte but as far as the actual soldiering stuff there was nothing that really gave you a problem no not Obviously, I mean, there's room for improvement and everything. But overall, no, I was enjoying it.

You know, I wanted a soldier and that's what we were doing. I could see the progression and where I wanted to go was coming. I was getting to that spot. So I think I had the right attitude. Obviously, like in anything, attitude is a huge factor. I think I just put my head down and soldiered on, and that was looked upon positively. Yeah, people were surprised when, you know, for seal training anyways,

you know, I would say, like, if you're a little bit of, a okay high school athlete, you'll be fine. Like, you don't need to be some superhuman because you just need to be able to do the stuff. And then obviously if you've got an aptitude towards running, you're going to be better at that or aptitude towards the obstacle course, you're going to be better at that. But

you don't need to be some super stud to make it through. Exactly. And consistent's always better than excellent. One thing and the week and others, like if you got that, you can build on those. But if you're I think most NCOs and stuff, I appreciate that. You're always there in that. You're always there in

that top group kind of pulling your weight. Yeah, no, for sure, I think better to be well-rounded than a special, specialty at swimming or specialty at running, because if you're not good at one of those things or if you're bad at one of those things, you're not going to make it. I mean, it's much better to be average than I was average. I was a strong average. Hand-to-hand combat instructors demonstrations were full on. Despite his name, Sergeant Chief La Gros, the big, was a small, white,

Frenchman. He was aggressive. During his demonstrations, he kicked a corporal in the groin while we all watched it all. The sergeant chef chief then asked for the next volunteer. All our hands shot up immediately. We knew full well that if we didn't volunteer, we would be chosen. The next guy was thrown to the ground hard or something just as fun to watch. So you guys were getting some actual hand-to-hand training. Yeah, the French have that they call it core to core, which is somewhat based off of the Israeli Krav America, but it's just your basic hand-to-hand. Things get tight, close, whatever you have that ability to look after yourself. But yeah, there was a bit. Yeah, and there would be an evaluation at the end. And part of the sports course, you had to have a minimum level so that you could teach it.

Did you remember enough judo to, like, make it help? Some of the basics, but no, not really. I mean, my white belt and judo wasn't really. Impressive very much. Old Sergeant Chief, the big. He didn't care about your judo white belt. No, not at all. This is another situation.

You're in an older man and his family approached us from the side of the chateau. We introduced ourselves, and Mack explained to me that the man was what the French referred to as a Pied noir. Was that mean Blackfoot? Yeah, exactly. A French national born in Algeria, North Africa.

This was history I knew little about, aside from reading Legionaire, but it was important in understanding the Legion and the second rep in particular. Mac asked if we could go if we could camp on the chateau's grounds that night and the gentlemen agreed that evening we sat around the campfire with the gentleman and his family drinking wine and listening to his stories like one in which he vividly described a battle where his regiment was saved by the legion which had apparently marched into battle singing he was emotional telling it he had been a french officer in the Algerian war 1954 to 1962 what i didn't fully understand at the time was that in 1961, dissident French regiments, including the Legion's one rep,

had aligned with anti-Gallists and seized power in Algiers during a coup d'etat. In part, the one-reps' objective was to jump into and seize Paris to remove President Charles de Gauls from power. The push, a German term for a coup d'etat,

but used by the Legion, failed before it began, and the one rep was later disbanded. Correct. That's a crazy story. Yeah, it is. And prior to that, the Legion had its own Air Force or its own airplanes. After that, they were, that control was taken away.

Now, Matt, you mentioned MacMunera. So after my sports monitor course, I go back to O'Bying, which is the headquarters for the Legion. And I'm there for the summer as lifeguard. I called it Operation Lifeguard. But the promise was, once I did the summer, I could go to the rep. Mac Manero was a Canadian soldier that had left, and he was actually the guy that did my B2 interview. And I saw him at the pool with his wife and child, and I introduced myself, and he kind of took me under his wing.

And during our time off, we'd go on hikes, and that's one of the hikes. So we go to this chateau, and the gentleman living there was an old French officer that had been in jail for numerous years as a result of the poach. And what happened is that peignoires were French citizens, French blood, that were born and raised in Algeria. part of the French military, but that was their home. And after their time in prison in France, they couldn't go back to Algeria because the Civil War was over and they wouldn't necessarily welcome. They didn't have any family or place to be in France. So what a lot of them did was take over these chateaus that were owned by the Algerian government and just decided, okay, these are now our homes and they would live there with their families. And they didn't have the money, so they're all broken down old chateaus, but no one wanted to take responsibility.

So this was an old poochist, and yeah, he told us some of his stories. And this for me, and why it's mentioned in the book, because it's a history lesson on the Legion. And certainly the rep, the history behind it. One thing that I've, that I've, the way I always kind of perceived that, that coup d'etara to push was that France had decided, you know what, we're not going to fight for Algeria anymore. We're going to get it back.

And the legionnaires who had fought and died and lost their friends to, to keep Algiers said, you know what? No, we're hanging on to this. Exactly. And by the way, oh, you don't want to do it fine. We're going to literally fly to France. We're going to do a parachute drop into France. We're going to take Paris.

Yep. And we're going to get rid of Charles de Gaul, the president. Exactly, 100%. And there's some history from Indo-China that played its part, too, because a lot of families were left behind local national families, and they paid the price. And Algeria were to send a lot of them. We're married to Algerian women had families.

They wouldn't have the ability to bring them. them back to so yeah there was a lot of history there and they definitely didn't agree with de gall's decision so and it wasn't just the rep there was several other regiments and uh yeah the gall figured out beforehand and got to the right people and said stand down and they did and yeah a lot of a lot of people went to uh jail and there are some stories of of worse but uh again there's no yeah it's hard to even fathom that it's hard to fathom that i mean it's hard to fathom that like in America, right, thinking that the 101st Airborne Division was going to say, okay, you know what, we're going to do a parachute drop into Washington, D.C.,

we're going to take the White House and we're going to get rid of the President. I mean, that's what that's what this is. This is exactly what this is doing, what we're saying here. It's crazy to think that. And this was only when, 1960 something? Yeah. This isn't like the Revolutionary War. Yeah.

That's a crazy story. I'm going to have to dive into that story on the podcast. And that's Simon-Marie's period. That's ongoing, yeah, in the age and area. All right. How were the guys from the, how were they viewed? In other words, when you would meet these guys that were like part of the push or when you would talk about these guys, would people say, oh, they were wrong or would people

say we understand? I think they understand. Certainly now. With time, people kind of see the reasoning and the history and the reason for, and the reason for why things occurred. And I would also say probably at the time a lot of information wasn't being shared so they probably just thought they wanted to replace

the goal. They didn't necessarily know the history of the reasoning. But I think as soldiers we all, certainly I, I respect that. The reason behind or what they're doing isn't really a factor. It's more just that they were there, they experienced it and I don't judge. But for me, it was, you know, I didn't know a lot about the Legion's history, certainly France's history.

So that was all something new to me. And as I learned, I kind of, it helped me understand what I was a part of and what I was joining, which is important. But the, but the, as you would hear these stories, it was it, was it, was there a level of respect when you would talk about the 100% rep? Yeah. Oh. And those were the pictures that I'd seen and then the encyclopedias and stuff was them jumping in into China, Dim Fu and then Algeria during the war. And that is what became the BEPS turned into what the rep is today. Oh, 100% I thought it was coolest. And they disbanded completely one rep. Gone forever. Like that history is dead. They were, yeah.

They said no more. Done. I mean, it's actually kind of crazy that they kept the anything. I mean, you can't, can you imagine to Gall? He must have said that that's, I mean, he must. I guess they must have done a good job of isolating saying, no, that was these guys over here. You can keep the rest of us. We're cool.

Definitely. Yeah. Because if I was him, I'd be thinking, wait a second. These guys are a unified. And they were kidded up waiting at the airport. The planes didn't show up. He got to the Air Force General and said, stand down. I know what's, yeah, they were, they were close.

It would have been exciting. But yeah. Yeah. It's interesting part of history for sure. And not talked about a lot, to be honest with you. Yeah. It's a lot of stuff that I learned being there and being surrounded by it and asking questions, but it's not sure. Yeah.

And I'm sure I'll go into it at some point in Legioneer, but that war in Algeria was vicious. Yep. And it was a true, like, counterinsurgency going on. and there was a lot of, you know, there was, there was, there was the insurgent tactics of, you know, booby traps and IEDs and things like that. It was brutal. Yeah. It was brutal. Great movie about it, too.

It's quite a bit of, yeah, a handful, yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's interesting. I worked in Algeria for years after the military. And again, you know, just seeing some of the spots he talked about when I camp was right next to his camp in Philadelphia. And, yeah, for me, history is, is something I'm always so fascinated with. So it's interesting to see in here and then be in spots and put them all together. Little battlefield walks.

Yeah, that's awesome. 100%. All right, back to the book here. My summer passed quickly enough, even though, and I was given three weeks and told that I could return. On my return, I would be departing for the parachute regiment. Home wasn't quite what I expected because you ended up going home. Seeing family was great. Ultimately, things changed with time and people move on.

Janelle, which was the female you were involved. with had a new boyfriend. Yeah, as they do. And my friends were either working or going to school, not a lot of common interest or experiences, trying to explain how I'd spent the last year was difficult, if not pointless, really. People just didn't get it.

My time at home only reinforced my original goal to jump from a military airplane. Yeah, so it was like a reset. You miss home, as you do. I mean, at that point had been well over a year, but you go home and it's the same shit. There's a reason why you left. I hadn't achieved, obviously, what I'd gone there to do.

So that check wasn't in the box. But it kind of gave me that reset, New Vigar, and off I went. Yeah. And Janelle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. See you later, Janelle. Have fun with Fred over there. Exactly. Yeah. You saw the GCP for the first time. So, yeah, I joined the Airborne Regiment. Deusee Margement Tranger de Parchites, which are,

Not even trying. Based on the island of Korska and Calvi, which is a Mediterranean island off the coast of, it's actually closer to Italy, but it's part of France. So I joined the rep. I do my jump course, which is about three weeks,

and I joined the first company, which specializes in night ops, urban combat. And, you know, every week you're, typically every week here, you're jumping. And when we're at the airport getting kidded up, this truck pulls up and all these guys jump out.

And it's a mix of corporal sergeants, senior NCO, and a lieutenant and a captain. And they're the equivalency of the pathfinders in the British or Canadian system. In the French system, they're considered pathfinders for the regiment. But in the French military, there's nine airborne regiments in total. One of them is the legions rep. So they're part of the battalion.

Each regiment has a GCP team, and they create the GCP group. So they can work together and support the French Special Operations Command. They can either be working for the regiment as Pathfinders or separately as the group supporting French special operations. So I didn't obviously know this at the time. I see them jump out. They seem more relaxed. Like the Legion Way is certainly the rep and a common company. It's very, you know, these guys jump out slack, you know, kind of they got their jumpsuits on.

They grab their rigs and they're just kind of hanging out. And it seemed to me that the NCOs, the officers and the junior ranks were all kind of mingling, which doesn't happen typically or ever. in a combat company. And so I asked our corporal, you know, who is, who is that? And he said, yeah, that was the gc. So that was the first time I saw something. I was like, something I didn't know about, but I was like, damn, that that looks like I need to get some if I can.

Yeah. As you do, right? Yeah, that's what happens. Yeah. So you get done with that jump school. I presented myself to, now you're back. I think this is when you're checking into your duties, your section. I presented myself to the first section duty NCO in the section hallway and the

and the duty corporal corporal, corporal, Raik, who was formerly in the British Parachute Regiment. Correct. Yep. So I've just joined the first company. Done basic training. We're all going to the first company. This is me showing up, Mr. Rookie.

With beer case in hand, he provided me with some quick advice. To the line, work hard. This simple insight into section life was pretty much the norm for all legionnaires. There was no room for discussion. Yeah. So we have to show up with a case of Kronenberg, which they sell at the... In fact, the Legion is stake owner in Kronerberg, which is interesting. But that's you got to show up with your case of beer and hand it over if you don't you'll just be going straight back to get your beer

But we all know this. So yeah, that's and Rick yeah Rick was good shit Yeah, work hard. Yeah pretty simple straightforward Shut up really good advice shut up and just do as you're told that's really good advice for all of life Life in the company didn't differ much from basic training a Pell was done at section and company levels in the company Parade Squares and section hallways in the mornings the company would parade at 0, 7, 20 hours. Section duty corporals would present to duty section sergeants who would present

the section head NCOs, who in turn would present to the section commanding officer, usually a lieutenant. So you guys are still rigid. Oh, yeah. It's, yeah. I mean, because checking into a SEAL team, like those days are, like, even, I was a new guy checking into a SEAL team.

We're not reporting anything like that. Yeah. Well, at this point, I mean, it's infantry. It's a typical Army regiment. It's just regimented, controlled. And then, yeah, making sure that their legionnaires don't do dumb things. And you're living in barracks? 100%.

Yep, there's the regiment there. Open bay barracks? Meaning, do you have your own room or like four to a room or something? No, there was typically about six. No, it wasn't. Yeah, it wasn't a ton, but, yeah. And could you bring females back on base? No.

Good one, John. No, no, no. So would you get hotel rooms on the weekends when you get hotel out? Well, what you get into, if you want to go out, you have to go through a procedure where you apply for permission. So every day in the morning, if you want to go out at the end of the day, if you're allowed, you fill out a form. And it's a little square piece of paper. You got to use a ruler to write it straight, if not they'll just rip it up in front of you. You hand that to your corporal.

That goes to your sergeant. Then it goes to the lieutenant. If he approves, he signs it. It goes to the captain. He signs it. And it comes back. And then at the end of the day, when the work day is over, they give you your teat de parmichon. you have to get your uniform on

because as a Legionaire for the first five years you can't wear civies so you're in uniform so you get on your uniform you go down to the the NCO on duty in your company and he'll check your Tito Per Michel

he'll check your uniform to make sure that it's squared away I don't want to go out already Yeah exactly I'm done And then if he says it's good Then you go to the front gate And the duty NCO and sergeant there do the same thing

They look at your and then when you're in town There's the military police that are patrolling and yeah if they if they catch you out of sorts or you know it's jail so yeah it's it's seriously controlled now as I said you know it's things have lightened up a bit now but during the time it's yeah you didn't want to go for that so weekends sure but my first deployment in the seal teams I deployed in what we used to call a spec ops platoon which sounds a lot cooler than it actually was just meant that we were deployed to Guam and so when we get there I mean I'm 20 or 21 years old and it was pretty much like, hey, you do your job

and then do whatever you want, which in Guam meant we were going to go. I mean, we're young male human beings. We were going to go and get after it. And if you had to meet at 8 o'clock the next morning, you could show back up. You could leave as soon as Dwarke was done. You could go do whatever you wanted

as long as it was borderline legal. And then when you got done, if you were meeting at 8 o'clock in the morning, you'd come roll back in at 7. 59 and no one cared what you did it was total mayhem there was total mayhem and then was it was interesting my next deployment I went on board a ship with a seal platoon and if you were an E4 below which I was You had to be back on the ship by it was either nine or ten o'clock at night somebody took your running gear Yeah yeah that is when he took the running but but it was it was like completely crazy to me that a year prior I had been literally doing whatever I could imagine doing for and by the way it wasn't like

you know we'd have entire weekends or we'd to get a three day or a four day weekend and just go do I mean just get crazy just go and just do whatever you want and then here I was a year later now I'm like 22 or 23 years old and they're saying well this is with my workup and deployment that's why it's fast forward in 18 months two years but it now All of a sudden, hey, no, you got to be back by by 10 o'clock at night. I mean, I was in Thailand on rogue solo missions in the middle of nowhere, you know, and then fast forward, I'm on a ship and they're like, hey, you've got to be back by 10 o'clock. And it was great, it seemed crazy to me.

And that's why, you know, earlier you and I were talking about like when you joined the military and how much it, how much, how it is for you mentally. And just to have experienced the kind of freedom that I experienced early on. and then get that tightened back up was a lot harder. That's why I think when you're 18 years old like I was when I joined the military, I wasn't fully, I didn't fully understand freedom anyways. So it was like, okay, cool. You want me to do whatever?

You want me to fill out 19 forms before I can go have a beer with a female out in town? Cool, bring me the forms. I'll do it. Yeah, no, it's, and I, you know, that's why I tried to get into that when I mentioned, because as we say, you know, we're young men, you join. There are certain things that you don't necessarily think about. when you go there like oh you know i want to join legion be a soldier but your young man you got other objectives too at the end of the day and it's not the greatest environment for other objectives

which is a result of probably the high turnover you know when you do meet a girl you're like i'm not going back to that and that's why they they lost a lot of guys um that's as i said that's changed but i try to get that into the book to show that there's other aspects of the mental game that are there it's you know sure push-ups you get beasted on and whatever but there's also there's other parts to a human being. Yeah. It's tough sometimes to deal or get to that, you know. So that's the idea behind some of the stuff.

Now, as you get, that's your first five years. You can't go out without your uniform on. Garrison, no. Now, if you're on leave and you get a three-week leave period, you can go off. Theoretically, you can't leave France. How much leave do you get a year? Typically about three weeks. Yeah.

It's the life, man. Yeah. Now, if you go on operation, you'll get additional. I think you're guaranteed three weeks, but if you go overseas on tour, when you come you'll get another three. So it depends if you're busy, you get, you know, more. But yeah, it's not, that's not their objective is to give you leave. It's to use your services.

Per se. Then, and that's a challenge of writing, telling the stories. I got to, you got to cover all the things that people don't think about. So it's, you know, it's figuring out. Yeah, well, what's interesting is I always tell people, hey, you know, look, the military is not like boot camp. meaning, hey, when you get done with boot camp, which yeah, boot camp is,

you're going to be all regimented and all that. But I always say, you know, military is not really like boot camp. Well, that's also coming from my perspective as a seal, which really is not very much like boot camp at all when you get to a seal team. But, and then you get to, you know, the regular Navy or the regular army or the Marine Corps.

There's more aspects to it that are more similar to boot camp. Like you've got to fill out a chit to go to, to go on liberate. or something like that. But this is leaning towards boot camp. I mean, this is like, you know,

this is definitely, and like a Ranger Regiment, Ranger Regiment, they're freaking hardcore too. And they, you know, you're still dropping down and doing push-ups for people

when you're at Ranger Battalion. Whereas in the SEAL team, it's like people don't drop you down to do push-ups. There's no punishment like that. I mean, you can get in trouble, but your trouble's just going to be

like a normal, like you get written up or something like that. if you do something really egregious, but you've got to do something pretty egregious to get written up. I don't think I ever got written up. And that's the environment too, right? Because when I get to the GCP,

which is considered as, it's a team thing. And the onus is on you to, you got to show up. If you don't show up, well, you get kicked out of the team. And so they're not quite as. Yeah, that's part of it too, is even in, this is another thing

that comes to a big surprise for people is during seal training, there's a majority of the weekends. You have the weekends off. Yeah. Like, you can, once again, if you wanted to, You could go like when I went through

Guys some guys would go down to Mexico go down to Tijuana and party the whole weekend long and come now I wouldn't do that A because I was like younger and B because I was paranoid about not making it through So I would sit there and sharpen my knife all weekend long and polish my boots and And press my uniforms because I was super paranoid about not making it But some guys they just they would be gone the whole weekend and there's here's the deal Some guys would get in trouble and then they wouldn't make it to the seal teams so there was a test I of your maturity and of your own personal discipline, whether you could make that Monday morning, 0, 430 timed run on the beach,

hey, if you're late, that's it, you fail, you're out. Or you spend the weekend doing something stupid and you can't perform, you're out, or you suck it up and you stay there and you polish your boots and you get ready for Monday, which is what you really should be doing. But, yeah, the individual freedom that you get in seal training is a test. It's a test to see if you can handle it or not Because once you get to a SEAL team And you're in a SEAL platoon

You've got all kinds of freedom It's kind of crazy when you think about it You've got all kinds of freedom You're in a foreign country You've got all you've got money You've got access to gear And if you do if you wanted to be stupid You could get really stupid really quick

And you could cause some real problems Testosterone has its effects 100% Yeah Yeah But these guys are keeping you all tight Yeah. Yeah. And that's the system. You know, as you mentioned, obviously, the seal system is effective, and that's the way it is. It weeds out. The Legion system has that history where they probably initially had the type of people where you had to be. Right. them all the time. And that's,

it's where it is and that's, you know, as I mentioned, they're kind of lighting up on it now. The things have changed and they're busy. They don't have to be quite as stringent

on the guys because of the turnover. But yeah, it's definitely controlled. And that's something you got to keep in mind if you're going to go there. Like, it's not. Yeah.

Yeah. There's that prison factor. You get that idea of iron discipline. And you, when you go back in history, and I've talked about this before, well, one of the reasons that you needed

iron discipline back in the day because you're literally dealing with conscripts. that don't want to be there at all. Like you've taken them. They're basically slaves that are going to fight for you. So you have to impose some kind of discipline.

Now, you can also find many examples where past leaders that were even leading conscripts, but they led that they cared about their men. It was more positive. It was a better outcome. But unless you're that charismatic leader that can pull that off, well,

you're left with one choice. And it's like, okay, these guys are going to do what I tell them or I'm going to beat them. I'm going to lead with fear. It's always better to leave with caring for your guys, but when people don't have that capability, what do they do? They default to, I'm just going to lead by fear.

Or if it stings you, if you give them that latitude or options or it. Oh, I see. They come back and they'll go over. Yeah, then you drop the hammer again and no one's allowed to do anything. And I think in the system, too, you see the NCOs as you rise and rank, your freedoms increase. Right. So then the onus is on you to get there. And obviously that's what the reason I was looking for is, you know, these NCOs and leaders.

So they're hard on you the beginning, but there's a reason for that. If you want to get to the top, we'll then put in the time and effort and tell us, show us that you're capable and you'll get those freedoms. Yeah. And what about like the, like you mentioned earlier, that less of the Eastern Bloc guys would desert because they're just used to a harsher lifestyle. It seems like if I was an Eastern Bloc guy and now I'm getting, I think you say the pay is like $1,200 a month or something like that. Good money. I'm sitting here. You want me to fill out a thing?

Cool, I'll fill out a thing all day long. I don't care. Yeah. And a big part of the, you know, the size of the rapper, a lot of the Legion regiments during that phase were Eastern Bloc, Polacks and Romanians, Czechs, Slavs, everything. They took up a big part of the rank. And yeah, exactly as you say.

It was a good option for them considering the time. Man, I had a guy from a dairy farm in Minnesota. Bro, this kid was basically slave labor growing up. Yeah. He told me literally I will do whatever you want me to do as long as it doesn't have to do with cows. And he was right. He hated cows, but he would do, he was just a hard worker. Yeah.

Like he would live this lifestyle like it was a joke. He was ready 100% because he grew up just harsh. But if you grew up kind of pampered about a little bit rough. Yeah, and that's the thing too with these remarks. They grew up hard. So they were some tough, tough guys. Yeah, you get some Polish corporals and some of the combat companies. They're, yeah, you don't fuck around.

Excuse me. They're French. Yeah. And they have the freedom to ruin your day, you know. So, yeah, you learn that pretty quick. Yeah, I had a Polish national, awesome guy named Drago. I did a platoon with him, and he was just so legit. But he's the same way.

Like, oh, what do you want me to do? He will do it, man. He will make it happen. So, yeah, there we go. All right. You end up doing some cool stuff, though. Here's part of it. Over the next three weeks, we learned how to both telemark and downhill ski with winter survival and alpine battle drills culminating in a final exercise with live fire Our French instructors who wore oversized white berets got to work introducing us to telemark skiing in the forest

Surround surrounding the fort so you're doing some winter warfare training Correct. Since I could already ski everything came easily enough to me but one day I made the soldiers mistake a serious one While inside my shelter after patrol I had removed the magazine from my FAMAS But I forgot to clear it and check prior to releasing its action and bang an accidental discharge AD, albeit with a blank round regardless Lieutenant de mesme wasn't impressed I explained my mistake and he gave me a look of parental disappointment to my surprise nothing more was said about the incident yeah you had the mighty AD I did lesson learned and I always

remember because Benny during basic training it told me where one of his buddies had been shot and is lying in his bed after patrol in Ireland. One of the teams came back, and the guy had an ND and basically shot his friend through the head. And it stuck with me, and that was, you know, a story that sunk. And so when I had that indie, I thought, man, fuck, I just, you know, didn't do the same thing, but that's exactly how it happens. And at that point, I had been pulling my weight,

having the, being blessed and raised as a, you know, an officer's son, whatever. In Europe, we were skiing in the Alps every winter. So I could, I was a good skier. And so I was pulling my weight, not causing demes me any problems. So at that part, I think he could tell that I was hard enough on myself. He didn't really say much. What are you going to say? But yeah, it was definitely a good lesson for me.

100%. And every time after that, when I, you know, took my bag off, I'm thinking right away, fucking clear. Like, it just sunk. And that's how you learn, right? You make the mistakes. Yeah. Clear your weapon. Yeah.

Young soldiers, young troopers out there. don't have the AD it's really bad 100% Here's another situation where you You tried to You try to get to Like a to leave to ski early And some NCO stopped you

And then we go here This guy So now you can't leave to go skiing early You gotta go with everyone else He kind of quashed your plans And you say back in our barracks room It was I was mid-complaint About this rude disruption to my life

when the NCO walked past with an earshot. He marched into our barracks room, and I paid for my belly aching with a head butt to the mouth. Not a word was said. In reaction, I automatically brought up my guard to which the NCO responded by grabbing a metal stool from the corner, strongly suggesting I don't bother taking it any further. Check.

So my fault, I borrowed it on myself. I was trying to leave early. There was a bus scheduled for everyone to leave it. I think it was two or something. And I had this great idea, you know. that I was going to go out at skip lunch and just go out. And, yeah, he put a kibosh to that and walked by the hall when I was bitching about it to my other friends. And, yeah, came up and just basically, you know, it was quite a bit bigger.

But it's off to him. He just head butt to the mouth, which shocked me. And my initial reaction was just, you know, guard, right? And, yeah, that's what he looked to the side and took that, you know, those old 1940s French Army stools, you know, it's a metal. The way, he just took that. And he was like, yeah, I'm good, man. We're understood And that was just like no factor

That's just day in the life Yeah, who knows maybe he had it out for me I don't know I don't recall but yeah He checked my my attitude and noted All right back in Calvie we squared away our kit Went straight back into the company routine An entry level company sniper course was scheduled And I was informed

But I was one of the two legionnaires chosen From our section to attend joining nine other legionnaires and corporals So you go to sniper school you learn about the sniper weapons, then you also do everything else that we do, which is sniping, infiltrating, building observation posts, shooting from them, technical training, crawling into our OPs, looking downrange

and designated for arc of fire. This is standard. Yeah, it was technically the first phase of sniper qualification. It was tiered elite, so it was more learning, it was more of the shooting side of things, the basics, but you would follow up on that and go to the actual sniper course after, So it was a second part of the qualification.

So it's split in two. And yeah, that was the first part. Then you continue on with section training. And you say here section training continued for nearly 10 months during which I notched 36 jumps. Sold your well, hold your own physically and you're left alone by the corporals, NCOs and officers. This wasn't overly complicated. One morning during a run, our head NCO said that in light of my general performance, I should consider volunteering for the GCP selection process.

I wasn't aware that one could just volunteer, but I took his advice and passed before Lieutenant Dismesmey. Dmesme. Correct him. And asked for his approval to volunteer for GCP pre-selection, which he duly approved. Cool. You're getting that going.

Corporal Nagasi, Nagasa? Nagasa. Nagasa, yeah. Nagasa. Nagasa. Nagasa, yeah. Was our duty corporal that week. This is just another story.

Transfer and fast forwarding. He was Japanese and his French was less than. Stellar. I approached him in the hallway and asked why I was supposed to be cleaning toilets. This is, again, a little fast forward jump. He took exception to me questioning his directive. And after a short back and forth, he gave me a push, saying, that's an order. Nagasa was shorter than me, but stocky. I was pissed off at being told to clean toilets after 10 months in the section. Fucked that, I thought. This push pissed me off too. An unwritten rule exist within the lower ranks that in a confrontation that's perhaps more personal, you can

suggest the higher rank, higher rank, remove his rank, which I did. Nagasa removed his rank and pushed me again, this time harder. I responded with a left to the side of his face. He dropped to the floor and then curled up into the fetal position holding his right cheek. I immediately felt bad and concerned. What had just happened was a huge mistake on my part. Roger that. And then you fast forward, you see him kind of all bandaged up. And you say, Nagasaw wasn't a bad guy, really. My emotions had gotten the better of me. And over something that wasn't a big deal at all.

The captain was right. Who did I think I was? This was the type of thing that had got me into trouble before the Legion, and I needed to stop making these kind of stupid mistakes. So there you go. Yeah. Another good lesson learned. Man, I wish these lessons learned that you put in this book about,

just growing up. I wish there was some way that a young man could actually heed these warnings. Or they could buy the book? Yeah, definitely. You can buy the book and I hope they do.

But, you know, like... And in my defense, if I may, you know, I'm not a psychopath. I'm not just punching people. There were some history there. Uh-huh. And new legionnaires joined the section

every week or second week. So we had ample new guys that would be cleaning toilets. That was, I could tell that was... Why did he make you do it? It was personal. I was probably, who knows, I don't recall, but he obviously had an issue with me.

And that's what I noted. And then so when I questioned it, typically his response was clearly, you know, pushments in order. I could tell that it's personal. And then, yeah, the rest is history. But yeah, I certainly regret it. And, yeah, and the captain,

it was actually the company captain that, it basically told me, like, who the fuck do you think you are? But saving grace was, and the corporal had the same story. or he agreed that we both removed our ranks, or he had removed his ranks. So I was, you know, typically not at fault, but still my attitude was in question.

What do you think made you, how do you think you were able to self-reflect and actually see that you were wrong? I mean, because I hear this story over and over and over and over again from people that they can't put their ego aside and just say, you know what, that I was actually a jackass here. Yeah, he was, at the end of the day,

he was the corporal. He put on the orders that I cleaned toilets. I just cleaned toilets. Who am I to question his, That's his role. When I'm in a corporal, I can, you know, choose and decide what I want to do. But in that situation, he was the higher ranking junior rank. And yeah, I was wrong to question it.

And I was certainly wrong to go beyond that. It doesn't, and the idea would be like if that's in an operation or things going on, you don't question orders. And that's, you know, the idea for ranks and orders is you told to do something you do it. There's no room for questioning that just gets people killed. gets people killed. So I was, you know, it was a red flag for me as a character thing. And certainly is a, you know, an up-and-coming soldier within the regiment is you don't,

it's just, there's a wrong choice at the end of the day. And I regret it and I could tell right away. And that was just old muscle memory. You know what I mean? Problem. And that's, I think that's, that's one thing that, you know, I mean, I talk about all the time on here is like, well, you actually do question orders. And you do say, hey, boss, why are we doing it this way?

And a good leader says, oh, well, what do you think? Why do you think that? And there's a time and a place for that. But with this one, this is a classic example, you don't have a relationship with this guy at all. He doesn't like you for whatever reason. And instead of trying to build that relationship, which would eventually, because what if you're on an operation

and this guy, you're working for this guy, and he makes a bad decision and says, hey, charge that machine gun nest, and you're like, okay. and now you all get killed because you charge machine gunness. We want to have a relationship to a point where I can say, hey, hey, Nagerson, hey, we need to, we need to flank this guy or we need to get better cover fire or something. As opposed to, hey, Roger that. I'm going to do what you told me to do.

If you had no relationship with him, even in a combat situation, he tells you to do something and you say, that's not a good call. He says, shut up and go do it. Like now we're in a really bad standoff situation. You're disobeying a direct order in a combat situation. This is horrible. Whereas if you do these little things like hey you want me to clean the because he's What he's really doing is testing you right whatever reason he didn't like you you were a good skier and he struggled skiing or whatever and he's jealous And he's like oh yeah you grow up bang on you probably ski you grew up skiing the French Alps and I grew up whatever

Not doing that and so he's jealous of that and so now he wants to get it got his opportunity to put it on you And if your character if you can show him that your character is hey Roger that boss got it I'll come clean those toilets. Hey, yep, don't worry about it. You can, yep, I'm humble, I'm good. I know I can ski good, but I can also clean toilets good. Watch this. Then you start to build that up where you can eventually say, now he probably will look at you and his respect for you goes up.

Yeah. Because he says, oh, he grew up kind of a rich kid skiing the Alps, but he doesn't mind cleaning toilets. Hey, not a bad guy. And then you can eventually build that into someone you can communicate with, whereas this doesn't turn out that way. No, exactly. And something to be said about,

Peace time army, wartime army is there's those different ways of figuring out who's what and where they should be in the hierarchy things. And yeah, as I said, I don't know what, like I say, was made of. He didn't know what I was necessarily made of. But in that situation, you know, I had pulled my weight for the duration that was there. And yeah, they came to that and result, wrong choice. But you learn from it and you move on. And that was the last time I made that type of error. And it's a classic, it's classic ego scenario.

Right? This is a classic show scenario And there's some There's a there right now I guarantee there's a 20 year old listening to this Going What are you talking about man? That guy's gonna make me clean toilets I'm gonna bow up to him and it's like that guy

In five years that guy's gonna go oh yeah I remember thinking that Yeah because you have to just mature through this That's why I'm saying hey I'm glad guys are gonna read this book But you have to really read it and think about it You have to really try and think about it Think about what you're saying Because man, we are genetically programmed a certain way and that certain way is not always the best way Yeah, no exactly and so it's what I'm in the French foreign legion. There's obviously a reason that I've gotten there in life

Maybe some of my choices weren't the wisest. So I need to start learning and you know Using this to my advantage not making the same mistakes all the time. Did you have like you said it was the captain that pulled your son and said who do you think you are? Did you have anyone that was like hey man? Hey man, what are you doing? You got a lot of potential. Why are you doing this? I had to, yeah, trust uniform, wait outside. He called me, and I go and present myself, and then he basically, you know, asked me what occurred.

At the end of that, all the corporals came to me while I was cleaning toilets and said, if you do that again, you know, you'll pay the price. So it was made quite clear that, you don't question corporals in the section. Fair enough. And I cleaned those toilets. So, you know, M results, I didn't win. I just, yes.

And I jeopardize my, potentially my chance to do selection for the GCP. So I was on all levels down to myself. Yeah, and you just said, you just said, I didn't win, which is, which is like you're not going to win that situation. And that takes a, that takes a little bit of insight to understand, hey, you can stand up, you can bow up, you can act like a tough guy. You could even beat the shit out of him, right?

You could have knocked him out and you're still going to lose. You're still going to be cleaning toilets for longer with a reduction in rank and possibly prison time, which that's another thing. You mentioned a couple of times, but you guys get sent to jail. You do, yeah. It doesn't take much. They utilize, you said it doesn't happen much? No, it doesn't take much.

Oh, it doesn't take much. Yeah, I was lucky. You know, I told the line pretty good. And I'm surprised I didn't go to jail there. But again, the fact that he took his rank off was my saving grace. But yeah, if you do anything that's deemed unacceptable, there's different amount of days they can give you, but they have a prison in the regiment,

and you're basically used as a groundskeep. So you'll do an eight kilometer run every morning. They shave your head. You're in combat. with your typical HSE vest and you're basically running around cleaning up the camp and you do that for a week, two weeks depending on your sentence. And it doesn't take much, right? Like missing like you're... Yeah. If you go out for the night with your teeth and you're late, boom, week and jail. Seven days. Yeah. So, you know the Navy does that? The Navy has, the Navy can put you on bread and water. Like right now, there's some, probably someone right now that's on bread and water for doing something stupid. And there's guys I would see that. were always in jail.

I remember thinking to myself, like, why do you come all this way, jointly and then spend your time at jail? Like, it just... You mean like repeat offenders? Yeah, like they're just always the same guy. You see him run by, you know? I was like, Jesus, then, anyway. Those are the people that are not introspective that don't...

They're not learning their lessons. Exactly. Check. All right. Next, you go to pre-selection. Is this pre-selection for GCP? Yeah, correct, yeah. So now it's pre-selection.

Starts off, you're doing weapons, assembly, you're working with all the different weapons, um, humps, 30 click comps. Yeah, so that's the big ones. You got to do a 30K run with rucksack gear, helmet. And yeah, that is...

And this is still just GCP selection. Yeah, correct. So each combat company in the regiment, there's five now. When I was there, there's four. But based on your performance within the section, you can request selection. If your lieutenant approves and then your captain approves,

then you can go and do selection and they'll get a, you know, 30-odd guys, and then the GCP was looking for two new recruits or two new operators, whatever, they'll take what they need based on. If it's, you know, medics, they need radio comms, whatever. They'll pick and choose. But you're there based on your performance.

So it's not an open selection. It's you pulled your weight and you've requested selection. And did you have a specialty at this point? Like you just mentioned comms, medic? No, I had, obviously, I was first company, so we were Urban Combat Night, and I had my, you know, the first part of the sniper course.

That was it. And you had driver qual, right? Yeah. Some kind of mill. Is that not a big deal? No, no, it's just basic driving qualification. I had my sports monitoring course, which doesn't, you know, help,

but it shows that there's a bit of, well, fitness behind. Yeah. But they take the pre-selection phase to put you through the, the test and then figure out, you know, what you're made of. And then they'll,

you will join the team on training and to see if you have that. the character and the personality to gel with the other guys. So they're not really questioning your ability. There is the physical aspect where they make you do the entry test and all the kind of stuff to see who's the better. But a lot of times the guys that were better at the push-ups, the rope and all the kind of stuff on the range,

they would not quite pull their weight. So it was, again, being consistent across the mark. And then when you start training with the teams, they pick up on, you know, whether or not you're able to pick up on the lessons are teaching you. And then if you gel with the other guys, And that's kind of, I think, their selection process. Yeah, you mentioned that quite a few times in the book.

And I know I've highlighted somewhere, but just this idea of like, hey, just because you can run fast, just because you can do the 30-click hump with the required time or even the fastest of the bunch doesn't necessarily mean we want you on this team. Because the most important thing is how do you interact with these other human beings that you're going to put your lives in the hands of. Yeah, agreed. What are the odds you're going to do 30 kilometers together is if you're there first, well, doesn't really help the last guy. You know, but it shows your, yeah, your willingness and you got, it's a mental thing to,

30 K's at the end, you're, you're slogging along. It says something, but it's not everything. It shows something, but it's not everything. Exactly.

Yeah, there's some guys that make it through basic seal training who are total studs, but they're kind of are duds as seals because they just couldn't work well with other people

or they were getting trouble. And, you know, I had a guy that was a great, great athlete and a good enough guy, but he just, like, get in trouble. like the guy that you said you'd seem going to jail over and over again. You're like, man,

just don't do that stuff, man. You've got all kinds of potential. But I don't know, I guess that's, you mentioned testosterone earlier. And I guess that could be hard to rain. Yeah, and people, they're hard to change. So, you know, they just, they do what they do. Yes, they do. So you pass the GCP class. I do. Yeah, I get in. And they send me off to do my, you have to be minimum rank in. You have to be minimum rank in team is corporal. So they, they actually pull me off of the, the selection early. And I thought I was getting the good news as in, yeah, you're not getting axed. Yeah, he said, yeah, they were actually just, yeah, they were sending me off the corpics course. Yeah, that was starting. I think it was a month for a remember, yeah, four weeks. And this is now where we're starting

to get in a little bit of leadership training? Uh, ish. Yeah. More beasting. How to, really, more beasting and how to beast others. There's a bit of leadership. Um, there's, you know, giving orders, drill, that kind of stuff. But yeah, so you go back. to Castel, which is the training regimen for four weeks. And, yeah, learn that the trade as a corporal. But it's, yeah, it's heavy on the, the beasting and the singing, unfortunately, which I get into. But our training NGO was a lunatic, qualified and good at what he did. What's the name in the book?

It was Mudiraira. He had done the commander course down in South America. I forget the name, but it's renowned. It's a tough command of course. Man House. Have you ever heard? Is it, what country is it? I think it's in Brazil.

Yeah. Man house. Yeah. Anyway, he, you know, I think Sarge did that. Yeah. It's,

yeah. There's a prisoner war phase where a lot of guys just lose it. Yeah. They got you in those, you know, Vietnam era cages in the water, you know,

with no rats swimming around. But still, anyway, some of the guys, it's renowned for its effect in this. But he had done that. Yeah, I think Sarge did that. My buddy Sarge, who's a blackbone

in Jiu-Jitsu and he's, he went through one of those courses. It might have been the Ranger School though, but anyways, he went through one of the renownly hard courses and he's a, he's a maniac anyways. Yeah. You know, he was probably in the Prisoner of War section, like, enjoying it. This is good shit, yeah. Exactly. But I think Miter Rairo had never left the course.

He was always there. We were just part of his course. But he was effective. He was, you know, he was a character and hence. And that was just for your corporal's course. Yeah. Yeah. Good times.

Now you're joining the GCP finally and here we go. I presented myself to the duty office and I was told I was going to the Central African Republic or car tomorrow to join the section. Bangui, is that right? Bungi, yeah. Bungi. Central Africa. The country's capital was in turmoil after a military rebellion. So this is, I'm coming back from court-war scores, they're already there.

I'm not part of the team. next thing would be my commander course and then my Halo course before you're an actual team member in the GCP. So this was a surprise because they're asking me to go to join them. So it's unusual, but it's a good opportunity, but I'm not a team member yet. What made them, they just needed a person? Yeah, correct. Yeah. So on November 21st, my singing was, you're singing was exemplary in the corporate course.

On November 21st, 1996, I joined a dozen legionnaires and NCOs from the second CIE, who are on their way to Chad. Now you get Captain Raul. Captain Raul pulled me aside and told me that I wasn't a qualified section member yet. I was to watch and learn from the others. He then quickly briefed me on the situation. The Army of Carr elected President Patas was divided. And the rebels who opposed him had taken the Petivo district on the southwestern edge of the city.

The rebels consisted of army officers as well as soldiers who are well armed and capable. What I didn't know was that the conflict wasn't new to the rebels and there were undesirables within the mix. Locals were being robbed and raped and there were rumors of summary executions. So this is it. You just went from. Yeah. From Castell to Bungi and within a week. and never really done any operations yet.

Had you deployed out of France yet at this point? No. This is your first deployment. This is a good one. Throwing right in there. Good way to kick it off. Yeah, agreed. And here's your first operation.

As we approach the expatriate neighborhood, there were shots had been reported. My new teammates flicked off their Fomass safeties. I did the same. This was my first time with a live weapon outside of a supervised shoot. The VLRA rolled to a stop, which is your vehicle. We jumped out and started searching the neighborhood's main road

and smaller adjoining alleyways. I was partnered with Lasco and followed his lead. As I walked down the road, weapon at the ready locals glared at me or ran away. With nothing to see, we got back in the VLRA and made our way to PK Zero, which is the road. This wide avenue was lined with large irrigation ditches and a mix of fields and homes, all of which were either abandoned or derelict. Everything seemed eerily quiet to me. We returned to camp, debriefed, and I got into my sleeping bag.

As I lay there, I reveled in my new surroundings before falling a small. sleep. Africa was clearly new, but also no one was barking orders at me and there was no appell or parade in the morning. The only requirement was to be ready for zero 900. So that's your first real mission that you rolled out on. A very nice culture shock. It's just kind of yeah more just head on a swivel like what you know everything's new but it's not it's a nice break in mission. Yeah, agreed it was simple and it's like you go out nothing happens you get some of those jitters, first mission jitters. And the guys don't know me either that well.

They might have seen me during the pre-selection, but as a person, they don't really, they don't know me. So I'm, consistent of that fact is I'm the new guy, you got to try not to stick out and not do anything dumb and just, yeah, that was my focus, really. And then trying to keep up with what was happening. Because they had been there a while,

so at that point they had some contacts and stuff. So they were in the game and I'm just not, obviously. Yeah, this is, this is, something again I was as I was reading this book I was like and we're going to go into this more but just these when I think about what it feels like like even this first time you rolled out I remember the first time I rolled out in Baghdad it was it was luckily it was the same type of operation we went out nothing happened rolled back but even just the the the amount of vision that I had the amount of awareness that I had wasn't as good as it should have

You know, I was like a little bit too amped. Yep. And it's like, okay, how can, talking about that, hopefully guys can take a step back and be like, all right, cool. Look, this is what's going on. You know, here's what it's going to be. And that's what you want. But it's hard, it's hard to, it's hard to train, even train for that.

I mean, you got to do it. Yeah, you got to do it. You got to do it. And that click, it's a whole different, boom, now you're at a different, it's no more fun in games. They're, you know, theoretically, it's, your life's on the line. It's on. Yeah. All right.

Going on, you get another tasking. An undisclosed number of rebels were pillaging the home of a high-ranking car official. We approached the target slowly and deliberately. An SUV was parked outside a white colonial house framed by large trees and thick elephant grass. We could see movement on the inside of the residence. Over the radio, Captain Raoul ordered two leads approach the target more closely while the rest of us formed a defensive semicircle. The stillness of the night was quickly shattered by a burst of AK-47. fire. At close range, it certainly had my undivided attention. The first rounds landed

at the feet of our two teammates approaching the target. Lasco and Corporal Chief Prejent of French Tahitian. They immediately returned fire. Tracer rounds cut through the darkness and some hit the ground and trees surrounding us. Instinctively, those of us within, with line of sight with the rebels, returned fire. But it was difficult to tell exactly where the rounds were coming from and who is who. Cease fire, Captain Raoul shouted. We were told to secure our perimeter. This was my first firefight. I kept my focus despite the chaotic atmosphere where everyone was trying to gauge the situation, do as they were told, and look out for the bad guy. The house was cleared and its external floodlights were turned on.

Unfortunately, our night vision then became useless. This, in turn, did wonders for my natural night vision. Although I could see the surrounding wooded area, my eyesight was off. Everything was out of focus. kneeling by a tree for cover with my Fumas shouldered at the ready watching my arc, I caught slight movement within my peripheral vision. The motion came from a dark area within the taller trees. What is it?

My blood was racing from the intensity of the firefight and my eyes were still adjusting. Was what I saw actually anything? Looking over the barrel of my weapon, I stood up and took three steps toward a more pronounced tree line. The only sound was the faint crunch of dead grass underfoot, and my heart was. Steady thumping in my ears then I saw it again a movement near a tree now was clear to me the silhouette of a man was crouching Taking up the slack on the trigger as I made my approach my concern was twofold Was this a rebel or a teammate if he was a rebel and I opened fire that would be my teammates response or what would be my teammates response? This close to my arc of fire I approached as I approached it became obvious that the silhouette was a rebel bent over his weapon with his head down at this range of

Approximately three meters I knew I had the upper hand. This all unfolded within a minute or two of our initial contact with the rebels All of which had been chaotic. I approached the rebel from the side at a faster pace pointing my weapon as midsection And spitting out the words bouchpa don't move Most Central African speak some French and he twitched his head slightly to the side as if to acknowledge my presence and the command He seemed stiff and afraid to move keeping my eyes and Fomass pointed at the rebel and I shouted to Captain Raoul asking him to come to my position. He was visibly shocked to see that I had captured a rebel. Captain Raul immediately kicked the AK-47 from the rebel's grip,

grabbed the man by his arm and threw him to the ground, and kicked him in the back of his head, driving his face hard into the dirt. We secured his arms and legs using tie straps attached to my webbing. The rebel wearing his car army uniform looked up at me. I could see fear in his eyes. The team searched the surrounding area. Once it was cleared, we loaded our captive into the VLRA.

Lasko and I followed behind in the SUV we recovered from the rebels. Since the rebels were treated as common criminals, we handed the guy over to the local police station, then made our way back to the section's tent and parked the SUV beside Colonel Puga's command tent. Colonel Puga thanked the section for a job well done. Captain Raul's debrief was shortened to the point. It was a close call and could have easily gone bad. It was a good lesson for all of us. As an aside, Captain Raoul told me that my reaction could have been a lot better.

He was right. I should have dealt with the rebel more aggressively. True, I had been in good position to engage the rebel, but the situation didn't necessarily require deadly force. Having to make a life or death decision was new to me. Shooting or killing a fellow human being isn't a natural act or a first reaction for a kid from Canada. It is a conscious and considered act.

After all, that's what separates professional soldiers from others. Our work would continue to provide me with opportunities to refine my new profession. The following day, two rebels were found. dead in the tall elephant grass. The rebel whose life I had spared, the police executed him. It was quick and brutal justice and one all too familiar

in this part of the world. Roger. Learning curves. Lascault, his grandfather was a Polish legionaire. Married a lady in Indochina, Vietnamese, and that's the history of his. So he looks he's French, he looks

Vietnamese with a Polish last name. He's like the all of it in one, the Legion era with the history. But yeah, that situation was definitely, you know, I'm thrown into the den. Learning curve, lack of training, lack of experience. Turned out well, but again,

lesson learned and took that with me to the next job. Yeah, this, again, for me, this is really good sort of escalation of your learning, right? Like even the first night where, like maybe it was the very first mission you did where like nothing really happened.

Luckily this didn't happen that night because you had just a little bit more experience, a little bit more ready for it. And you know, it's like we talk about with jihitsu sometimes, like, or any type of combatives training, you get used to it. So now when somebody grabs you in a street fight for real,

you're like, oh, okay, I know what to do. But even if you're on the mat all the time, even if you're a black belt and jiu-jitsu, if you haven't been in a real fight before, there's still that last little thing, that last little hurdle to overcome mentally where you need to act decisively and make things happen. Whereas that's not what's happening on the training mat.

It's just not. A real fight has, it's different. And so the only way to, overcome that is you've got to like overcome it. That's why you hope the first fight you get in is with a guy that was an NCAA collegiate wrestler or a Golden Gloves boxer. Because you won't learn much. You won't learn much.

You'll learn that you don't know anything. Whereas if the first fight you get in is against some drunk guy that's, you know, acting like an idiot who doesn't know how to fight, cool. You learn and you can move in the right direction. Add it to the logbook. Yeah. Yeah. You can improve your game without with very limited.

limited risk. So yeah, no, it was a yeah, different learning curve there. Everything's new. But soldiering. At least I'm learning the trade and that's part of, you know, becoming a soldier and growing as a young man is, you know, you think, okay, I want to be a soldier and you got these visions of things that you will be doing or want to do, but life will check that and show you what you're made of and what you're capable of. And that's what I'm seeing, what I'm made of, what I'm capable of. Some of it's good, some of it's bad,

but growing up is learning and taking with that, or from that what you can. And are you just completely stoked at this point, though? I mean, from a perspective of like... I think I'm more focused on not fucking up.

Got it. You know, I'm new to the team. I'm not theoretically a team member yet. I'm just this replacement. Fortunate to be there, but I know eyes are on me. Certainly the captain's watching me. As you have the other guys,

I mean, that's key as your peers, right? The guys are with you. So I'm just trying not to screw up. Yeah. And that worked in my favor, albeit, you know, maybe my reaction wasn't textbook, but whatever, M result was successful. And, you know, once you're part of a little something, then you gain that little bit of traction with the team. They start to know what you're made of and then continues on. Yeah. Yeah, it's good.

Yeah. You know, we trained so realistic. We were so lucky. The the capability that we had with training was just awesome. Like we'd be doing paintball and this multi-million dollar laser tag system and explosions going off, special effects. It was really, really good. And it would really mitigate this kind of opening shock that guys would get. And that was always my goal when I was running training was to mitigate that opening shock. And, you know, where you see this a lot is with, like, you know, with police officers that don't,

get great training. Their day-to-day job will escalate into a life or death. They'll go 300 days or two or three or five years without ever drawing their weapon. Without with that idea, you know, coming out of the academy and every day that that idea of drawing their weapon goes deeper and deeper, deeper, deeper, deeper into the negative possibilities of it happening. and then all of a sudden, it boom, it escalates. And you can see that once again, this opening shock of, wait a second, you know, there's

someone with a gun or there's a bad situation or there's a woman screaming or that whatever it is, they can't process it quickly enough and they don't have experience processing it. And that's a real problem. And that's why these, you know, what I've said before is like, I think police should train one one-fifth of the time. Like 20% of the time they should be training. So five days at work, cool. One of those days you're just going through eight hours of training.

And who would you rather have policing your neighborhood? Ten cops at the same time that are all, haven't trained in a year, or eight cops who have all trained a bunch. The answer is so clear. But man, it just doesn't happen. No, they can never train. And that's how you feel, too.

And I mentioned later on is, you know, you know, this is where you realize that shit, I should have maybe spent a little more time on certain things on the range on the job training isn't necessarily the best system. But that's their system. And that being said, too, is, you know, I've just come off. It's not like I just, I was on time off and they're throwing me into Bungi. I've been, you know, going full on for almost a year now. So it is what it is. And budget is obviously, we don't quite have the same budget or they don't have the same budget as a SEAL team, obviously.

And the technology. So they make it work And yeah It seems to Seems to come together It's not perfect But it's that's how their system works Yeah

The thing that really for a young For anyone Anyone going into these stressful situations The ability to take a step back And detach from what's happening Is like 97% of the battle In these situations To take a step back and go

Okay I see what's happening right now Oh I got we got enemy shooting inside this house. Okay, instead of me focusing on that, I'm just going to take a second. I'm going to take a step back. Everyone else is returning fire. That's awesome. I don't need to return fire. I'm going to take cover behind this tree and I'm going to take a look around. The ability to do that is so powerful compared to, oh, they're shooting going on. I'm going to return fire. Like that, what that does your brain. Same thing in the street fight. Like the ability to go, okay, wait a second. This guy is approaching me right now. He's clearly drunk. He's got friends. I see

that his friends over there. This is going to be a bad situation if I get into it. Like just the ability, and instead of looking, oh, this guy's coming at me. Really you want some? That's not the way to go. And then same thing with being a cop or law enforcement. When you see something unfolding instead of jumping into it, which is what your instinct is, take a step back instead and take a look around.

And that's a lesson that I was lucky enough to learn early on. And then I did get a nice gradual ramp up in combat operations where it was like, okay, yep, I came back going, okay, you know what, I need to take a step back, take a wrap off. Yep, you were cool. You saw what was going on, but you could do better. And I'm very thankful that that happened. But, you know, even like the first time we were ever getting shot at, I was like, okay, I see what's going on here. Take a step back. I wasn't freaking out.

I was like, okay, cool, we can, here's what I need to be doing because I'm in a leadership position. Why don't you actually look around? And it was like, okay. But that ability to take a step back, detach, and look at what's going on is so important. And you know, you're a free fall guy. It's like your first free fall jump where what do you see on your first free fall jump? You see your altimeter and your altimeter and your altimeter and your rip cord and you don't see much. And then as you get better.

Hopefully if you're not tumbling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good thing if you can see altimeter. Yeah. But as you get better, you can see everything. And all of a sudden, these one minute freefalls from 13,000 feet seem like a really nice long time and you get to observe all this stuff. Enjoy it. But yeah.

But that's what you need to do is take that step back and train yourself to do that. You have to train yourself to do that. You have to train yourself to take a step back off the firing line. Quit staring down your gun. Look at the situation that's unfolding. Don't jump into the situation. Take a step back. And I think in the training, the pre-selection, obviously we spent time, you know, clearing houses on the range, shoots, all the

that type of stuff. So I think they're able to see the demeanor of the guys and see that you're not a, you know, a twitchy character that you're, you know, you're thinking about things, which, you know, would get you into the team. So I was, I wasn't prone to just, you know, going full auto and, well, no, you know, I was, you know, I was, you know, I was, you know, I was, you know, I was, more concerned about, obviously, not fucking up more than. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was my. Yeah. I mean, your instincts are, you know, you're like, you didn't freak out in the situation. You, you, you, you made a decision now, whether, or Capner, I will agree with exactly what you did.

It's like, okay. Maybe he was pissed because he still had his weapon, or maybe he thought you should have just killed him, which, you know, is six and one, half dozen the other, what you could have done there, what you should have done there. If you killed the guy and it ended up he was carrying a stick or whatever, then you're all of a sudden you're the bad guy for killing some civilian that was hiding in the woods, carrying his baby or whatever, right?

I mean, you were... Or worst case, a teammate in that way. Yeah, or worst case, you know, blue-on-blue situation, which is, Yeah. So, you know, you were, you were cognizant of what was going on. Like, just the simple fact that you recognized it could be a teammate, man, there's some people that don't, they go straight from zero to 100 miles an hour and they're just thinking, oh, that's a bad guy.

They're shooting going on, and they're pulling that trigger before they think about it. So you were thinking through it, and it shows that the training that you did go through, even though it might not have been this simulated combat that we did, you know, when you're jumping out of airplanes, when you're clearing room, all time. You have to learn to do that somewhat. And obviously you had at this point. And I was putting, you know, on that patrol, I was in the rear, a position that was less, you know, well, with responsibility. But, but yeah. Yeah, for sure. Great call, right? If I'm the leader of that, you're a new guy, you just

showed up here. Absolutely. And kept the rear security. It was no fool. Yeah. He's obviously there for reason. So he was, yeah, yeah, I was learning my trade, my craft. Welcome to the combat arms. Good way to learn. Yeah, it was easy. Yeah, everyone would do it, I guess. Now the situation starts to intensify. Embassy and foreign national neighborhoods were placed under permanent guard. French military checkpoints were established along the city's main arteries and roads leading to international airport. The airport terminal was secured by French Foreign Legion and the French Marines. Rebels had been firing RPG rockets and mortar rounds from their side of PK Zero into pro-government neighborhoods and locals were being killed.

Our new task was to deter this behavior. So here's another operation. Our objective was to find a good vantage point and neutralize anyone with a weapon either on PK0 or on the other side. So this is, you're going into a sniper overwatch type position. We found a suitable site behind a small but sufficient retaining wall and agreed on arcs of fire.

Within minutes, bullets cracked overhead. The shots were off target, but they clearly aimed at our position. seconds later I saw a figure standing in a small opening between buildings he let out a short reckless burst of fire in our general direction before disappearing the distance and lack of light made it hard to see but the AK sound was definitive I waited sure enough the stupid fucker fired at us again my response was quick I fired a succession of single action shots at the target did I hit my mark I wouldn't have been far off I knew that he didn't step out again we then moved a short distance away

and sought better cover the plan was to cross Pk zero and start clearing buildings and general area from where we had been targeted we put down effective covering fire shooting through gaps in the wall directly at our target two well-placed AC 58 anti-personnel grenades flew straight hitting their mark the enemy ceased half of our section then made a short sprint across PK0 under the other half's covering fire then the remainder crossed we waited in the dark No shots no rebel scene nothing putting on our night vision goggles we made our way down a dark embankment into taller elephant grass leading into a large open field without warning a high-pitched scream stopped us in our tracks Our lead had surprised a local with his pants down relieving himself Daylight was approaching and we checked the area to make sure he hadn't thrown a weapon into the grass Then we called it a night returned to our sleeping bags Yes, so we called after the initial I guess he called a contact we radioed for the rest of the team to come, and they came, and then we crossed the avenue.

But yeah, it was another, I guess, experience in soldiering, you know, the chance to use my weapon for the first time. And learning from, I guess, the time before, you know, there's no second-guessing. I knew what I was looking at. And, yeah, did my job. And, of course, I love this section, because guess what you guys are doing?

Covered and moving. fundamental fundamental combat tactic and that's exactly what you guys are doing putting down covering fire maneuvering

and that's what you have to do and that's the way it works it doesn't matter if you're in the French Ford Legion if you're in the Marine Corps if you're in the SEAL teams that's what you do and I think with a cross-training

we learned from others the best method of getting the job done and yeah we'd been training on fire movement and stuff for for a while yeah which is good Got to do it. Yep.

You guys get back on base and while lying in bed and you're writing, you're right, actually writing a letter, you're back on base, lying in bed, writing, and sweating in the central African heat, increased radio chatter from the command tent got my attention. It wasn't long before an NCO stuck his head into our tent and said, let's go. With the VLRA loaded, we drove at speed to where third company section had ventured too close to Camp Cassie and came under heavy caliber fire. Passing thirds VAB, we disembarked and made our way through the bush to the high ground where the rebel fire had originated. I heard the distinct double tap of a Femmas.

Am I saying that right? Yep, Femmas. Femas up ahead. Because it's an FAM, right? It's the rifle where like the magazine is out or sorry, behind. Is it behind your trigger group? Yeah, exactly. It's kind of a funky setup.

Yeah. They've replaced it since. But it's a good weapon. As I arrived on scene, Brooke and Prigant were standing next to a four-by-four pickup truck with a 50-calibre machine gun mouted in its bed. A rebel fighter was lying face down in a ditch. He was alive but suffering the effects of Brooks double tap. A few days later, our third company came under fire in the same place. Once again, we deployed.

The third cut down a rebel with their VAB mounted 50 caliber. He was lying on the road clearly dead. The 50 caliber round had done serious damage ripping half his chest away. It wasn't a pretty sight. And then you're proceeding another situation. After clearing the hut, I stepped out to the sound of an RPG rocket flying directly over our position, exploding well behind us. We took cover at the same time trying to pinpoint the origin. Quickly regrouping, we continue to our advance using fire and movement drills.

One covering the other in short bounds. This is classic cover move. But as we progressed, the shout grenade sent everyone diving. I threw myself on the ground covering my head in a natural and time-honored fashion. A friendly, high-explosive AC-58 anti-personnel grenade detonated on the ground, sending dirt and shrapnel flying in all directions. In the heat of battle, the AC-58 had mistakenly been fired vertically by one of our team. I lay still for a few seconds, and after everyone confirmed the okay, we resumed our advance. So there you go.

somebody had an AD with the human error it always creeps up at least they had the uh sense to call it out huh yeah yeah yeah that's a that's a decision making like hey do i tell everyone what that ruins momentum yeah exactly yeah because you that you because you think yourself well what are the chances if you if you had any kind of angle on that thing you'd be fine but if you fired that thing straight up yeah that thing's coming back down nightmare scenario yeah luckily you know I found out. No one was injured. Lesson,

lesson learned. Yeah, for everybody. For those of you that we just kind of skip past understanding what happened, the guy had a

a grenade launcher. It's actually, it's an antipersonal grenade that goes on the end of you from us and you can shoot it. So it's like a rifle fired grenade. Exactly, yeah. So it's a rifle fired grenade

that can, that way you can get, and you don't have to throw a grenade. You can use your rifle to shoot it, basically. And the guy had an accidental discharge had it pointed at high port up of the sky and shot it straight up in the air well

what goes up must come down must come down and so luckily he called out grenade because if he wouldn't have done that then you're standing up when that thing hits oh yeah the the frag pattern of a grenade is up and out do exactly what's designed for you i'm sure that debrief was fun yeah captain roe had his handful uh this is where things start to get even more intense a french military delegation had met with rebel commanders at the gas station to discuss certain terms and it didn't go well as the French staff car left the rebels opened fire Some R PIM snipers positioned in an apartment complex covering the meeting had it reacted appropriately the dead rebels at our feet were the result of their effective marksmanship It wasn't long before two rebel commanders and their subordinates returned to the scene apparently under under an agreed truce our photo Opsil NCO

Sergeant Chief Testanoree Testanier Testinier was instructed to take pictures for future reference So as you guys got called out to see what had gone down Later that evening We gathered in our OPE

And we could sense that things had changed Captain Raoul gave his orders A COS Super Puma Armed with 20 millimeter cannon Would engage the city's main power station In the early hours of the morning It was our signal to assault the Pont Jackson bunker site and adjacent buildings.

Once that objective was achieved, we would venture deeper into rebel-held territory. My initial responsibility in all this was to drive the P4 behind the team's VAB and use it as cover. Once the VAB had smashed through the makeshift barricade of burned out cars on the bridge, I was to break left and assault the building adjacent to the rebel bunker. The second P4 following behind us would stop short of the bridge. bunker my second responsibility once I brought the P4 to a stop was to dismount and fire an AC 58 anti-personnel grenade into the building's left window another teammate El Wahidi would do the same to the right window and then we would clear

the building the VAB would stop and unload its personnel to clear the second target building to the right of the main road and then if needed provide close fire support for the team with its 50 Cal we discussed our fallback positions dealing with trauma and other details or scenarios once the briefing was completed we were told to go kid up with the with the P4 position behind the VAB I dropped the hinged windshield forward flat onto the hood the call to prayer rang out reverberating off in the distance I found myself considering my current situation having joined the French foreign legion only two years ago I was

about to assault a rebel held position in Central Africa with the regiments GCP I was full of emotions nervousness uncertainty and excitement at what lay ahead Fear was a factor too I wasn't afraid of dying per se but I didn't want to screw up we were all being counted on we were after all a team This is a legit operation right here. Yeah, yeah, it's it's good shit for you know a young young soldier that's out there to test himself and apply to a little bit to his trade, this is, this is getting there. Yeah, no, this is, this is a legit operation. And I'm honored, you know, a lot of the guys are, like LYD would tell me, he was a senior insular, and he was like, this doesn't happen all the time, man.

You're, you're fortunate to be here. So consider yourself lucky, which I did. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you got. Then again, all the more owners to pull your weight. Yeah, you got the air support. They're actually going to start with 20 millimeter cannon taking out this.

I mean, this is a, this is a nice op. Yeah. It's a quality operation. The, yeah, 20 million can. That's on another position, but it's, signal to go. Yeah, yeah, but I'm saying it's a big coordinated operation and you guys are doing a fall on assault that's commencing with grenades.

Yeah, you don't shoot French officers in the back. Yeah. Time to pay. Fair enough. And a little nervousness, a little uncertainty and then the standard and I'm not trying to take anything away from that, but everybody says myself included like what you're afraid of is letting someone down. Yeah, that's definitely.

Letting down the team. Yeah. So also what was the planning like? Like did you did you guys participate in the plan? No. So early in the day, French Jaguars had gone over and they had photos of the of the site, which Captain Rule had.

And he basically briefed us there with the pictures. We went through. So there was minimal time spent really going over it, but it wasn't complicated. Yeah, this is straightforward. Yeah. Boom. We're coming in.

We all knew our responsibilities. and there we go. Yeah. Continuing on, as I sat there visualizing a walk-through, the plan I detected a sound. I listened again carefully to make sure my adrenaline kicked in and I was certain I could hear the quiet thud of Apuma helicopter's rotor blades

in the distance. Here we go. There we go. Word came over the radio to start our engines. We looked at one another and smiled. The OP gates were open and the VAB pulled out with its distinctive turbo diesel engine whistling as it kicked in and accelerated down PKZ.

The VAB then made its right turn onto the dirt road that led to Pont Jackson. Its 50 caliber opened up. The sound of the initial burst drowning out everything else. Shell casing bounced off the road, hitting the hood of the P4, and the pungent smell of gunpowder flooded our nostrils. The VAB then hit the bridge's barricade, sending the wrecked cars flying. Driving over the bridge, I felt a blow to our right side. The impact hit hard enough that I had to fight to keep the vehicle straight.

I managed to make the hard left turn, then slammed on the brakes. A yawning second of silence followed as the P4 came to a complete stop in a whirlwind of red dust. We were now at our most vulnerable, no longer covered by the VAB and right on top of the target. Testanier on our P4's rear-mounted 762 machine gun laid down covering fire, and El Wahidi jumped out of the P4. I picked up my Famas in the heat of the... But in the heat of the moment, I took the wrong one. A spare carried up front. Everything seemed to be happening in slow motion.

Noticing my error, I grabbed the correct Famos with the AC 58 loaded on the muzzle. Taking a step forward as El Wahidi's AC 58 left his weapon, I located my target and fired. Then I reconfigured the Famas. I was farther away than planned, but the AC 58 flew straight and hit the windows lower corner exploding and sending shards of cinderblock, concrete, wood, and glass onto the road. I quickly rechecked my magazine, nodded to El Wahidi, that we were good to go, and we advanced to the building's main entrance using fire and movement. We reached the door, and I kicked in as hard as I could three or four times until it finally gave way. This wasn't ideal, but it was reality, not a Hollywood movie.

We then cleared the building room by room. That's a wicked, good assault kickoff right there. A sledgehammer would have been helpful. Yeah, sledgehammer would have been good. Because standing in front of a door kicking is not a day off. you know a good place to be whatever we're running yeah I've had that feeling before of standing there kicking a door on this target waiting for an AK 47 to enter my back but um you know what it makes you do kick harder

there you go afterwards we joined our two teammates outside they had detained three adolescent boys who were kneeling on the ground hands on their heads visibly scared children were used by rebels as errand boys or whatever was needed these kids smartly had hidden when we launched the assaults and the rebels fled. After being searched, they were told to clear out. The boys ran off

and disappeared into the darkness. Theirs was a childhood of worlds apart from what I had experienced growing up. Our team regrouped, however. I noticed my P4 had a nice little flat tire. As the section,

what did that? I think it was just one of the vehicles that we'd smash by, you know, a piece or whatever, something out. Yeah. Slipped there. As the section continued up the road,

I was left behind with Sicorlan. Cirocalan to cover as I changed the tire. The Puma flew a loose orbit overhead, hammering rebel positions in the distance with its 20-millimeter cannon. With the tire replaced, we drove up the road to rejoin the section, waiting some 500 meters away. Driving through a smaller crossroads, we came under fire from a heavy caliber-type round. Thank God their aim was off. I watched a red tracer round cut past our front. A Marine VAB 20 millimeter at another intersection

Had mistaken us for a rebel vehicle This potentially fatal error didn't really sink in right away And we both laughed nervously once we were clear of danger Yeah, I don't know how close it was It was close enough to get our attention obviously And I accelerated But yeah, they definitely had us coined for someone else And it got our attention

Yeah, and it's crazy you know I've told this story before there was a blue on blue and when I was in the battle Romani there was a nothing happened but there was a a Humvee that engaged another Humvee like shot at another Humvee I don't think they hit it yeah but that shows you I mean a Humvee is one of the most distinctive vehicles there is you know especially with the 50 caliber and the turd I mean it's really obvious what it is and in Ramadi they didn't have any technical vehicles. Like you guys were going against some people with tech.

There weren't, the enemy didn't have to, they had vehicle born IEDs, but they didn't have weapons mounted on them. And they damn sure didn't look anything like a Humvee. And so think about what the mental state of a young soldier is that he's out in a Humvee in the city. He sees another Humvee and shoots at it. Yeah. Like that's how amped up people get that.

And this is. In all fairness to the French, the, the rebels had, Piquats, the same. same type of vehicle because they're obviously supplied for the French military. You know, these things happen. Luckily, you know, but it would. It, uh, it fared well. But yeah, it certainly got our attention. And something you don't think about as, you know, when you're, you're on this off,

whatever you're thinking the bad guy, you're not thinking the good guy. And wham, you know, shit, I got to be thinking about the good guy too. Yes, you do. That's things that we realized being in combat was you had to do at least as much planning to de-conflict with the friendly forces that, as you did, worried about what the enemy was going to do. And by the way. Defensive soldiering. I don't know if that term even exists,

but you got to think about, you know, the mistakes that others are going to make, not just the enemy. Yeah. And by the way, I'd rather get shot at all day by the enemy. Yeah. Than friendly who actually hit their target more often.

True. So here we are. Back to the book. Regrouped with our section. We waited at the intersection and it wasn't long before the early morning light brought with it civilian casualties, caught in the crossfire

and family members asking for help. We radioed for assistance and a French military ambulance. arrived as the evening adrenaline wore off and we sat idly watching it hit home that these people some seriously injured were innocent victims we were soon replaced by a section from the fourth company and made our way back to the jackson bunker site where we put where we were put on standby for a few hours on a further search of the bunker and building several weapons in small ammunition caches were recovered afterward i sat in the driver's seat of my p4 drinking coffee as two teammates used to

Use the Peugeot rear hold to clear the recovered weapons. Suddenly a loud shot rang out. An old French bolt action rifle had accidentally been discharged. Captain Raoul had a lot to say about that error. Personally, I was also unimpressed. I had coffee all over my combat vest, pants, and webbing. It was a good fresh brew, too. We eventually returned to our own beds, and I slept like the dead.

Adrenaline affects people in different ways, but this adrenaline does. took it took it to a whole new level after we had time to rest we were debriefed the operation had achieved its objective the rebels had fled bangu How do you say it? Mungi Bungi With their commanders retreating to their native villages The first R P I M a The Marines and the rep didn't suffer any losses although two crew members in a Sanghi armored vehicle were injured due to a friendly final incident with the Pruma overhead. The rebels suffered losses.

So again, we get a blue-on-blue scenario. Yeah, and hopefully I'm not focusing too much on the human error on our side, but that is a part of soldier, especially when you're doing it for real. People screw up, and it's learning from it. And it, you know, it was there. And I was also aware of my surroundings. You know, I wasn't dumb enough to not see that the locals were suffering, that they have a tough life.

I'm a fortunate kid from, you know, Western Canada, privileged upbringing, and I was there supporting obviously the French efforts, but at the same time I could see that there's other people in this world that don't have it quite as well, and they suffer the consequences of bullshit. Yeah, so that was always part of my time there. I'm not just cute up soldiering time, but I'm also looking around at my surroundings, thinking, you know, I'm a lucky guy.

This is, you know, some people have it tough in life. Yeah, no, traveling the world has definitely left an impact on me in terms of how awesome it is to grow up, well, for me in America. And the thing about human error, like, I don't think you're focused too much on human error. I think you're focusing enough on human error that hopefully people that listen to this go, oh, we better not assume that someone in a helicopter that's flying around at night looking at the ground is going to be able to discriminate which one of these vehicles is good guys and which one is bad guys. Even though it might seem real obvious, it's not.

Or when you get lazy on the range in your training, think to yourself, when it's really, real you don't want to be the one screwing up because the consequences are high so take your your training seriously i was uh out in the desert just on a training operation it was daytime and i'm trying to signal i was a radio man was a young enlisted seal i was trying to signal a helicopter to come pick us up the helicopter is probably at an altitude of like no more than a thousand feet it's low yeah i have a smoke out i've got like a red smoke out on the ground and i'm waving an aircraft panel around and there's two helicopters, a section of helicopters, and they can't see me. And I just, I couldn't believe it.

Good helicopter pilots. You just can't. Yeah. Yeah. And what I realized is like, oh, to me, it's real obvious because I'm looking at the sky and there's only one thing to look at these two helicopters. For them, I mean, they got, I'm like, well, I'm by the knoll. How many knolls do they see?

You know, past the ravine. How many ravines do they see? They see literally miles and miles and miles of square. And, I mean, eventually they did, but it queued. me in that man it thing you got to understand other people's perspective what are they seeing and same thing from a leadership perspective like what is my grunt think what are they seeing out of this situation does it make any sense to them have I explained it clearly enough like actually probably no you haven't so getting to know other people's perspective or looking at things from other people's

perspective is an important tool and what you're saying here you know focusing on human errors It's like people are going to make mistakes. I mean, people are going to make mistakes. Whether it's a negligent discharge with some recovered weapon or it's shooting friendly forces, I mean, like, that's going to happen. And you have to do everything you can to plan to mitigate that as much as possible.

It's hard. It's a hard job. Roger that. And by the way, I mean, when I was before the war started, I didn't think that that blue-on-blue was a possible thing to really. happen and you know Jason Gardner who's an awesome guy who's been on this podcast and he's telling he's

talking about having a blue on blue during training I was running training and he's he's kind of telling the story about how this blue on blue unfolded and he was the same way when I said look you know people are going to have blue on blues and he kind of was rolling his eyes thinking everyone else must suck so bad you know that's ridiculous and sure enough you put that pressure on him and man Things get complicated and people make mistakes and the world looks different through night vision and the world looks different from different angles That's why you got to keep things simple By the way long combat Train hard fight easy. Yeah

Continuing on being left alone for a few days with ample time for sports sleep general recovery and a beer or two at the camps Fourier was a much needed reprieve but it wasn't long before we were briefed on our next task So here comes another one approaching our A home built better than others. We waited outside its entrance until signal to enter. As we broke through the door, it was obvious that our target wasn't there. But his family was, and they were terrified. The younger children were shaken to the bone, and the mom and an older sister were trying to comfort the kids to no effect. Who could blame them?

Here we were a bunch of foreign soldiers with weird equipment on our heads bursting into their simple life. We left the family with bottles of water and some wise advice for the woman's husband. our efforts continued and we set ambushes on remote trails leading to rebel villages hiding in the bush through the night cradling my weapon and wearing NVGs my eyes started to play tricks

shadows on the trail began to look like rebels slowly sneaking up on me not to mention the bugs relentlessly buzzing around and crawling on me these were long nights and all in vain our stay in the car was coming to an end and the rep was going to be relieved by another French regiment

Ammunition that would soon expire needed to be spent so we just dedicated an entire day to working on our contact drills firing as many rounds as we could Captain Raoul arrived later in the day and I was duly summoned with an order to stand detention I was promoted to corporal he removed the Velcro premier class patched from my combat vest and replaced it with corporal rank a company with a solid punch to the chest So it stuck properly So there you go get your uh Get your promotion. And then it was back home. Well, back to CalVee.

Back to CalVee. Back in CalVee, everyone was given leave except Mois. Salac, Garcia, both fresh off leave and I were going to the Center National de Trainment Commando. So, Commando Training. Correct, yeah. CNEC. We passed the pre-entrance exam consisting of a timed relay with sprint.

push-ups, sit-ups, chin-ups, and the obligatory rope climb at the regiment gym. We then left for Marseilles by overnight ferry on towards Toulouse. So what's this course all about? So this is the French commandant course. They have three levels, one, two, and three. In order to be a GCP team member, you have to be level two commando qualified. And then obviously your Halo qualification. So is this is this level one?

Two. Okay. I had done my level one with the first company. Got it. Yeah. So this is level two. But it's done for the cost, which is the French special operations command. So everything from their Jijsien, which is their French anti-terrorist team to Air Force, Fort Air Controllers, regular army.

And then their command of Marines, which is based off similar to the SEALs. Is that commander of Hubert? Yeah, Hubert. There's a couple. There's four. But yeah, so we'd all come together and do the course. Oh, that's pretty good to have a unified course like that. And my first, you know, time to see other soldiers.

Because I'm still junior at this point, and I haven't done any courses except with other legionnaires. So this is the first time I kind of get thrown into the mesh with other French, actual French soldiers. Now, are you looking at their lifestyle, seeing a difference between? It's starting. I've been busy. Yeah.

I can't complain, but, yeah, you start to fatigue and starts to kick in. And here I am, you know, starting a course. And you must be feeling good, too. Like, I mean, just from that one deployment to the car, right? That's got to, that's pretty, that's an awesome deployment for 19, whatever, what was this? 1995? Six. 19906.

That's a freaking good deployment for 1996. It is. Agreed, yeah. And I'm fortunate that I, as I said, got to partake and it wasn't the, I mean, that wasn't a normal deployment, I'm assuming. No, no. And then the fact that I'm not a qualified team member. So I'm fortunate that I've gotten thrown into the team that way. But I don't think I'm there mentally.

I'm thinking I need my command of course. I need to get to the jump course. I need to be a proper team member and pull my weight. So I'm thinking we're just, I got to cover these courses, these checks in the boxes. I'm not really looking back. I think, oh, this is great. This will be chapter seven. Not at all.

It sounds like you did some more maritime stuff with this. I'll go to the book here. Navy Whaler and six-man zodiacs were introduced into the training. We sat in the crafts, a lower deck and guys got seasick from surging swells. At times, this made vomiting contagious. Finally, never soon enough, the boat's alarm would sound and we would make our way onto the deck of in teams of six. Zodiacs were thrown overboard at speed and we followed jumping to the sea wearing our wetsuits. Zodiacs were deliberately flipped upside down and we waded beneath them.

Our body's shaking in the chest and teeth chattering uncontrollably from the cold. If we were too slow, the instructors would keep us in the water for longer periods of time. My least favorite training experience by far was swerve on my fucking nerve. This is this is that what you guys called this no I just came up. No, I just came up. Okay, jammed inside the tarp covered trucks with our backpacks, the vehicle would speed off and then we were ordered to put on our wetsuits in the dark, cramped moving space. The driver purposely swerved violently back and forth, sending us crashing into the sides or piling up to the front as he braked hard. The tactic that the tactic was that half the group would make themselves as small as possible in the corners or sides of the truck.

so the guys in on the inside could change then we'd switch out tempers flared but we got it done yeah that's just a typical freaking just fuck with you yeah absolutely but yeah tempers would flare right I mean you get a an elbow across the side of the head you know things got yeah and you have to figure that out for yourselves a way to get it done uh first thing money is again I'm skipping broad swaths of this book but I'm just hitting some of the highlights first thing on Monday morning we took part in hand-to-hand combat drills to get us back on track, then we went straight on to an obstacle course. Rock climbing was on the curriculum with a fascinating lesson on knots, which we immediately forgot, but would be tested on later. In the classroom, we worked on explosive charge calculations and reviewed the explosives range safety rules. Continuing on a bit, that evening we were awoken by stun grenades and German shepherds barking in the barracks doorway. Instructors in Bala-Klavas dragged us outside and covered our heads with potato sacks. The trucks had their high beams directed at us, and we are put in stress positions with dogs barking on our faces.

Our personal belongings, such as compass, knife, and flashlight or lighter, were taken. This was the prisoner of war phase of training. Stress positions were quite annoying, which is the idea. And if an instructor noticed you slacking off, you'd slap you upside the head and make you either correct the position or change to another one. The exaggerated push-up position with your rear end as high as you could get it was effective. The slaps were not overly hard. I certainly don't think any of us were close to quitting. We knew this was coming.

So you're just getting your... Yeah, they're just playing with us. We saw you. Nothing. They didn't slap you hard, huh? Yeah. The first slap that I got at Sears School, which was our... I got slapped so hard.

I was not expecting it. You know, I kind of had... I think I had, like, because I was 19, I think I had a good cocky look on my face. Like, whatever, dude, I got you. Keep in mind, these... The training in COs are Reg Force. It's not Legion anymore, right?

So they're not quite as... apt at smacking yeah good one and getting me with it this was a regular Navy guy this guy the guy that slapped me in the face was a regular Navy guy

and I'm sure he had read my dossier and said oh here comes Rambo let's check some of that yeah and so I was given some cocky answer you know he's like what's your name because it was an Eastern Block simulation so they're all speaking with fake Russian accents so he's like what is your name

and I'm like what are you worried about quack I mean full I don't think I think he honestly slapped me as hard as he could. Like, I mean, it was that hard. But was it the kind of with his palm or like... He slapped me as hard as he could. You know how like...

But there's a difference though. You ever watch those slapping competitions, right? You get the good guys and they get you with this part. Yeah. But if you get this part, it's just that's superficial. He slapped me, I'm not sure which part of the hand. But good enough that you know. But let me put this way.

It kind of rang my bell a little bit. Yeah, yeah. He probably got you with the professional part. There was a little bit of professionalism. Yeah. I think so. Effective. Check.

Two of our larger coursemates were, this is, again, fast forward, two of our larger coursemates were told to retrieve Jerry cans of water stashed roadside. A detonation of white powder followed, simulating two casualties. Using our combat vests and metal poles provided for stretchers,

we extracted for what I assumed was several kilometers. At some point, I could see headlights in the dark down the road. As we arrived, I realized it was a military transport. The instructors then casually told us that we were done.

Confused, I asked the, instructor if he was sure we were exhausted and then completing the commando brevet is that what you say brevet yeah brevet exactly was physically challenging and that was something I liked having the feeling of being pushed to my limits so you get done with this that's phase two that's phase two yeah so that's my commandal qualification now would be the jump course to be a qualified GCP team member now you're back on base in Calvi I was summoned to the CEA company building and presented myself to the duty NCO sitting behind his desk. He ordered me to get gills. Is that how you say? Jil. He ordered me to get Gilles dressed uniform in Kepi from his locker. It was an unusual request. I asked why what's going on without even looking up from his paperwork. The NCO replied casually. He's dead. I was stunned. That shock was compounded by the cavalier, even callous way the NCO had broken the news. I was angry but controlled my feelings and went to Gilles' room.

I recovered his uniform and Kepi from his locker. Inside were photos of his fiancée, Stephanie. I quickly networked with others to find out what the hell had happened. News eventually trickled back to the regiment. The CEA first company and section had been deployed to Brazzaville in the Republic of Congo, fighting between government troops and militia men, loyalty the former leader had escalated, requiring evacuation of some 6,000 expats

caught up in the civil war. Gilles had been killed during expatriation efforts. His body was due to arrive in Calvi from Africa the next evening, and corporals from the CEA's rearguard would man his honor guard while he lay at rest in the regimental chapel. Six of us were desisted.

designated to carry his coffin onto the parade square for the regimental ceremony scheduled for the following day. I was excused from course to get my uniform ready and assist in the preparations. A small private ceremony for Gilles' family and Stephanie was held before the regimental parade, where all the companies not on tour were present in full parade uniform. Jil's coffin was removed from the chapel to the center of the parade square. French Minister of Defense awardes Gilles, the posthumous Croix de Valour Militaire, the military medal. The cross of valor. Then the regiment sang a regimental song.

You could have heard a pin drop when it was over. It was a moving moment. Captain Raoul indicated that I was to attend dinner that evening in Calvi for Gilles and Stephanie's Stephanie seemed to be taking everything in stride, but I'm sure she was doing her best to put up a strong front. I could see that Gilles' family was hurting. Everyone was. I wasn't really sure what to say or how to act. Gilles, who was a good man, a good soldier, and like many other legionnaires before him, had made the ultimate sacrifice. Yeah, so Gilles, I had befriended. When I got to Bunga, he was new on the team, but it had completed all his prerequisite courses. So he kind of took me, not under swing, but we'd run together. You kind of briefing on what to expect on the command of course, the jump course, some of the personalities within the team. Like, be careful of this guy.

He doesn't like, you know. And so, yeah, he was a good guy. And when we got back to France, Stephanie and met us at one of the French Air Force bases and brought sandwiches for us to eat. And so I got to meet her. So when I came back from command of course, I was doing my medics course that they were running on. the in Calvi and that's when I was summoned to the front desk and controlled my my temper which is mentioned because sometimes the Legion can be that way cold

and callous is what it is and yeah Jill's was a good man he was actually former French airborne quit the French military to join the Legion because he wanted to give her to go and it paid the ultimate sacrifice so was I thought an important story to share because a lot of people don't think or see that when they think of the Legion, that there's good men out there risking their lives and some of them pay for it. Yeah, and I didn't read it,

but you go through pretty good detail of what it happened. And so that's another reason for people to get the book so you can get that story. Yeah, and they're out there supporting valid efforts. It's not this misconception that the Legion is out there doing. They're supporting humanity and helping where they can. Yeah, absolutely. Did that, I mean, now is your viewpoint of what you're doing changed at all at this point?

In which way? In other words, did you have any feelings of, hey, I'm a legionaire, we deploy, I've been in firefights, I can't be killed, nothing can happen to me. Did you have any thoughts like, well, actually? 100%. That was definitely an eye opener word. This is, yeah, serious outcomes. Um, yeah, it was sobering, I guess, to a certain point. And you realize that, yeah, there's a risk out there.

Something you take for granted. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Especially in a peacetime army. Because really things hadn't ramped up at that point, Afghanistan hadn't kicked off Iraq. So, you know, it was not a common occurrence for a soldier from the rep to be killed in action. Do you know when the last one that was killed in action? Uh, prior to his, um, um, I don't.

I couldn't list it off. Had there been any others while you were there? No. So it had been like two, at least two or three years. Yeah. Yeah. So it wasn't common occurrence by any means. Yeah, well, you don't expect it, right?

No. Because there's no active full wars going on. And the reception was good to see, you know, how he was treated the efforts of the, the government, the French military and the regiment itself. You know, it was nice to see that he was thought about after and given the proper honor. deserved, which is nice. Yeah. How many people leave the French military to join the Legion?

There's a chunk. As I said, in the ranks, about a third are French nationals. Obviously, all the officers are. And what was his reason behind it? I would assume that when you're in a French regiment, the rep is kind of the level to attain and the Legion. It has a different history and discipline. So I'm guessing, based on what he told me,

he just wanted to come and give it a run for himself. Yeah. because we'll work together, right? So they'll see it. And they'll march by it. I don't know how many steps a minute and high pitch voices in their songs. And then the legions turn and it's slow and deep.

It's impressive, to be honest with it. So I think that, you know, not necessarily that, but just the whole vision is tempting. They're appealing. He wanted what the young man was. Yeah, to go try it. Awesome. Salute.

At this point, you're told that the sections qualified medics were headed to Marseille to spend a week with the city's military firefighters as paramedics and this is something that we do in America too we'll take our well at least the SEAL teams do it we take our young SEAL medics and send them out to Compton, California or Detroit or Baltimore

to be in really bad neighborhoods to get to work on on. Yeah to get to use their craft live Marseilles' firefighters were renowned for their professionalism, and you got some good, well, not good, you got some pretty heavy stories in here. Our next call was to assist a young boy who hadn't been able to reach his grandfather. We met the nine-year-old outside his grandfather's large apartment building, which was in one of the city's tougher housing projects, where his parents were. I had no idea, but it wasn't my place to ask, really. We took the elevator to one of the upper floors and knocked on the grandfather's door.

Nothing. We knocked again several times. Still nothing. The NCO checked the handle. The door was unlocked. Calling inside, he took two steps through the doorway and then turned around ordering one of the paramedics to take the boy back to the elevators and wait with him there. The NCO indicated that I entered the apartment saying, don't touch anything. I immediately recognized the smell.

As I was walking inside, I noticed a plastic shotgun casing on the floor. then two legs partially obscured behind a corner. When I looked around the corner, the grandfather's body was lying there. The upper part of his skull was missing. Blood and brain matter covered the walls and the balconies glass sliding door. A shotgun lay next to him. I then realized I was standing on some of his teeth. It was a graphic and sickening sight and the last thing I had expected when riding up the elevator.

Another incident made an even bigger impression. A young girl, maybe seven or eight years of age, couldn't wake up her mother. The doctor pronounced the mother deceased as the girl stood in the doorway watching. An empty bottle of pills was recovered from her mother's bedside. Then you continue on another. Dealing with the city street people is also something new to me. Quite often these were the same individuals day after day, night after night. The homeless, drug addicts, drunks, or people suffering from mental illness, most likely all four.

It was an eye-opener. I watched a male patient in his late four. He's unravel as we tried to administer first aid to his self-inflicted knife wound. The paramedics' actions and attitudes were always professional. Here was a guy who had just urinated, defecated, and cut himself, yet the paramedics remained polite and firm with him while trying to help. The NCO was tougher, more direct. I guess you had to be in that type of role.

And that's, you know, I always say thanks to the firefighters and paramedics on this show, but, you know, and I know this, because when our guys would go out and work with, you know, the paramedics and firefighters in big cities or even in small cities, like this is what you deal with. And you deal with it all day long. Yeah.

And it's a freaking hard job. Depressing, too. That's what I think, you know, why I kind of mention is, you're in a regiment, you're amongst your peers that everyone's kind of, you know, physically fit, type A, possibly. And then you get thrown into the real world and you see kind of the sad side side.

of humanity and the suffering of certain people. And you kind of forget about that. And then you see the realities. You're like, shit, man. You know, there's more out there than I'm aware of. So it was a good learning experience, empathy, but also, you know, also recheck me as I'm, you know, do I want to be a civvy or am I happy doing what I'm doing? What did that experience lean you towards? Definitely happy with my choice of direction at that point.

Um, I'm not a big fan of big cities and crowds anyway. It was a good experience. Um, not something I certainly wanted to get out and become a paramedic myself. But it's nice to see other people doing their trades learning from them. As a medic, you know,

mentioned the book. That's not something that I wanted to do, but I thought it was, it was definitely a good skill to have as a soldier just for yourself, but also for your teammates. But, uh, you know, hospitals,

all that kind of just people with, you know, mental, it's sad and I'm not a huge fan. So it was a good eye-opener for me to see what's out there. Yeah. And count myself lucky, you know, albeit I'm in the French Foreign Legion, I'm still a healthy individual. Yeah, could be worse.

Yeah, surrounded by a bunch of healthy individuals. It's like a good life. Yep, people you can trust. Comparatively. After that, you get sent to the S-O-G-H, which is basically HALO school, right? Yeah, so it's a free fall school, yeah. In fact, the S-A-S used to go there for their training. until they started doing their own.

Okay. Yeah. And it sounds like it's kind of a gentleman's course. And what I mean by that in America means it's not like boot camp at all. It's the other end of the spectrum. Like, hey, you do what you're supposed to do. Everyone's cool. The instructors are there to help you.

And they're not talking down to you or anything like that. Exactly. So that's the atop. This course is for the cost. So everyone from, as I mentioned, same as a commander course. It's a French base reg force done for the training for the French airborne. So yeah, it's super laid back. bit of a change for me going from the rep.

That was like a shock to your system too. Yeah. This is a military. As you're finishing up that school, he will go to the book. Parachutes were returned and I thank the course commanding officer and instructors for how well they had treated me. I left a brand new Legionnaires Kepi with a Canadian flag inside it at the instructor's bar.

It's cool. I said my goodbyes to my coursemates and then caught a ride back to Commander Ubert. base at Toulon Naval Shipyard where France's new aircraft carrier was docked. Hubert's base was off on its own in a wooden area hidden away from the rest of the naval yard. I looked at its miniature submarines and high-speed zodiacs, all of the impressive state-of-the-art equipment. What really caught my attention was a U.S. nuclear attack submarine docked at a long jetty below Ubers' main training building. A U.S. seal team was in town to cross-train with them. I was envious to say the least, but I had no time for envy.

I needed to mentally prepare for returning to the Legion way of doing things. It's a fact that in a bid to set itself apart from the rest, the Legion maintains iron discipline and places heavy restrictions on personal freedoms. Although this works as a short-term solution, it results in a high turnover. I also needed to get a proper haircut before making my way back to Calvi. Yeah, I had gotten in trouble for that during the course. I'd let it go and the officer in charge was like, you keep in mind your sole legionaire struthers. Yeah, fine.

Yeah. That's what you know what we were talking about earlier. I mean, this is how so many people, for instance, so many seals, stay in the seals for 20 years. Because there is a lot of personal freedom. Now, look, the standard is high. And if you drop below that standard, it's not going to be good for you. It's not going to work out well.

but if you're doing your job and you're doing it well, you get a lot of personal freedom, and it's awesome. But, I mean, and like we already talked about it, I mean, you kind of select for it because you give a certain amount of freedom along the way. But yeah, the Legion doesn't do that. No, and I'm starting to pick up on that.

You know, during this course, I was there for a chunk a couple months. So working with, you know, the guys from Hubeaer and other regiments, you see what a normal military life is like. You know, they go home and stuff. And that's the thing you mentioned, I didn't, you didn't mention, but like on the commandant course and during the free fall courses, on the weekends, all the guys go home to the girlfriend's families or whatever.

I don't. So that's something for, you know, a Legionaire that has to be taken into consideration. It's full on. You're not going home on the weekends. And that has its effects. So I'm starting to see what a real life. When you're going to the commander course or even this free fall course, you're not going home on the weekends just because you have nowhere to go.

Are you still restrict? You're not restricted. No, we were free. I would go down to, we would go into Spain and take advantage of our freedom. And that was another aspect of an eye opener. You meet people of the other, you know, you make friends. And you do things that now, you know, young men do.

And I know I'm going back to Calvi, which is no longer going to be that way. So I'm starting to look around thinking, hmm, you know, long term, is this what I want to be doing? Albeit I'm somewhat fresh to the team, but it's still that. I had to sign for next year. So I was going to be doing six years. But I'm starting to think already, is this something I want to do as a career? become an NCO and do in the French system you need 15 years to get a retirement. You got a little taste of Spain and freedom and just.

Yes, exactly. Not. Yeah, I'm starting to think. Yeah, yeah. Which is tough on the mental side of things, right? If you're not in, you're not in. Yeah. So it's starting there.

Yeah. Yeah. It's almost better not to see. And as mentioned, the Legion has changed since they're not quite as aggressive and stringent on the thing. For that reason, the turnover is to give them. the guys a little more leeway to keep the guys around especially now that they're active and busy yeah there's yeah there's no real need you have any idea what percentage of people go past their first I don't to be honest yeah I'm not sure check all right um back again the second and fourth

companies were headed to Chad Africa for a four-month torn supportive operation epivier a perviere yeah its objective was to prevent Libya from destabilizing Chadd Chad and threatening France's interests. So back in the game again. We boarded an Airbus a 300 on September 12th 1998 and on the on the east coast of Corsica flew over the mountains of North Africa and across the rusty dunes of the Algerian Sahara into northern Chad. You get to Chad. You're on the ground here we go next on the agenda was a three-day section training exercise We loaded the VLRAs and started a three-hour drive east to a shooting range. The paved road soon turned into a dirt track with large sun-baked ruts that had been carved out by larger transport trucks during the rainy season.

It was a nightmare to drive on, and every bump reverberated in my back. We drove through flat and arid country, passing through small villages where smiling locals waved at us. Their lifestyle, with the most basic of amenities, was practically primitive compared to what I had seen before, even in Central Africa. But they looked happy. These images stuck with me. I knew I had opportunities in life well beyond what these people could even dream of.

So you say that in there, and I kind of highlighted it thinking, these are all things that are starting to kind of assemble in your head that you're thinking maybe that there could be a life outside the Legion. Yeah, 100%. Something I found different and interesting. Now we're back in this camp

that you were in Chad. Something I found. different and interesting was the camp's employment program where local men, women, and teenagers or boys as they were referred to were hired to wash our clothing and clean our barracks rooms. They were paid a set rate wage controlled by the camps administration. It was a good service and injected some much needed money into the local economy. So we hired abo. He worked hard and we gave him any extras we had or things we didn't really need that he could use.

On weekends, legionnaires could frequent the city's authorized bars and restaurants, all of which were within a small city block. On weeknights, we were confined to camp or the Rose de Vents. Rose de Vons. Rose de Vons. A local restaurant and bar with a dance floor. And working girls. This was new to me, too.

CFB. Wainwright didn't have a Rose Naveau. In the age of AIDS awareness, the women were subject to medical checks by the French military hospital if they wanted to frequent the Rose. Sexual encounters were not advised, but it was. It was a reality so the French military exercised precautions. The women were ostensibly self-employed. Private contractors, I guess you can say. And the military's only involvement was providing free medical visits.

A lot of women were from Somalia and Ethiopia. Some were tall, elegant, and attractive, and they put in a lot of effort to dress the part. Inevitably, it wasn't long before legionnaires were getting into trouble at the Rose de Valle. So that's another thing that's just. Different yeah. Yeah, yeah. Not really not really seen much of the Ethiopian prostitutes in Western Canada. No, no How but trouble follows. Here's another scenario that unfolded while you're down there. I was awoken by a P4 approaching at a at speed honking it towards shouts for a medic soon followed I jumped out of bed through on my combat pants and runners and sprinted outside a panic regular force corporal chief asked me to follow him Dimitri and I grabbed our webbing and jumped into our P4 with Smithy at the wheel

We followed the corporal chief to the Garrison's medical building where we found several people standing around another P4 Dmitri approached the casualty who was lying in the back of the vehicle I could see his legs hanging out the rear door clad in blood Torn blood-soaked pants my assumption was that he had been hit and dragged by a vehicle in town Dimitri yelled for an IV which I prepared and handed him I was unable to see what we were dealing with the victim's right arm was severed at the elbow His bare chest was pockmarked with impacts and his face was missing from the chin up The foot well of the P4 was filled with blood a quick assessment revealed that his jugular had been severed and his circulatory system had collapsed due to massive blood loss The military doctor arrived soon after us pronouncing the victim deceased almost immediately his body was quickly covered with a sheet

And we moved him from the P4 to the medical building and that was that Apparently during a live fire exercise that morning an AC-fifficed 58 anti-tank grenade hadn't detonated on impact. The range procedure is to wait 30 minutes and then destroy the grenade in a controlled explosion. But you don't touch it. For some unknown reason, the victim had picked up the grenade and it exploded. When I heard his name, it rang a bell. He had been an NCO in the first company and left behind a wife and two daughters.

This tragedy was a timely reminder to all of us that if you get complacent, It can kill you. Yeah, dumb. But at this point in the story in my career, I'm kind of tired of the training. I don't know if I was spoiled because of Bungi. But yeah, I'm sorry to not get lazy, but there's a bit of complacency coming.

I'm just like, oh, we're going through the motions here. You know, let's soldier not pretend. And yeah, Chad wasn't necessarily a highlight experience. There was some, I don't. get into too much, but within the section, there was some negative stuff going on, which is hard on any team. More about just, I think, the lack of stuff that was going on. We had a new CEO that wanted us to march and sing more. I don't get into it because it's not really my place to mention or to comment on, but Chad was kind of a pivotal tour where it was like I was starting to slide on the downward trend.

towards leaving. It was a good experience. We did jump out of the back of the helicopters a lot, and that's where I started watching them, thinking that's pretty, and that will come towards the end. And the Rose Devon story, it's in the book,

because we become the military police for the Rose de Val, not personal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you mentioned that. And that's why I try to leave it like, hey, they caused trouble, And then eventually you guys have to become military police there.

But at least I think of me, you send legionnaires 20 to 25 year old into an African country for four months. You need an outlet. It's just a fact of, if not, they'll find it elsewhere, and they get problems right? You mentioned the one legionaire who was, his dad was a Polish legionaire and his mom was a Vietnamese. Well, think of all the American, you know,

the American service members that have, got wives over the past however many years, wives from Japan, wives from the Philippines, wives from Germany. You know, the SEAL teams used to be up in Scotland. There was a bunch of guys that had wives from Scotland. Like you put guys in the Middle East places, well, they're going to meet the girls.

That's what's going to happen. Roger. So at least they had the fort, you know, forward thinking, to think, listen, we got to protect our guys. They're going to go out there and find it if we don't. So, yeah, it's smart. Yeah, the American military does not do that.

Yeah. The American military does not do medical checks and brothels. Nope, you're not getting that. No, it's not happening. All right, so now you're at another military ski school, and you're actually seeing saving private Ryan, and you get a recall. One of the other guys gets a phone call,

and here we go. When we arrived, Captain Martin briefed us on the situation. A French gendarme, how do you say that? Gendarme. Gendarme. I swear I looked at, I listened to that word, getting played like 19. 19 times.

And it's exactly how it looks like it says, but I keep screwing up. Gendarme at the French ambassador's residence in Brazzaville, Republic of Congo, had been shot dead by our military rebel. The cause first R-P-I-M-A had been sent to secure the ambassador's residence and the GCP would relieve them.

Captain Martin designated those of us who needed to return to Calvi the following day to prepare. I was chosen. We were dismissed and told to be ready in the morning. I handed in my issued kit, collected my Famos from the armory and packed my gear. Dimitri wasn't chosen. He looked like he might jump from the barracks second story window. I felt his pain.

The final BSM exercise, which ran the entire following week, didn't inspire anyone. So this is another thing I just got to point out. Like I'm throwing in these names like Dimitri, and you talk about these guys throughout the book. And I'm not doing justice of the other characters that are in here. So I apologize. That's why people need to get the book to learn about all these different guys. And that's just that situation where here you are getting called into a critical combat scenario, where, you know, there's going to be risk. And, of course, what's Demetri?

He's not going and he's pissed. It sucks. Yeah. Then you have one more little thing in here. You tell the story about these military issue sunglasses that sucked. And you are constantly wearing your. civilian sunglasses which work. Yep.

And there's a, one of the NCO's instructors is kind of like giving you a hard time. It's the captain from the second company. So the lead, okay, so he's actually the officer.

Yeah. He's given you a hard time about it. And then, and finally what you do is you just kind of do what you're supposed to do. And you carry two sunglasses. Whenever he's around,

you put on the correct military issued once. But you have a little quote here. It says, cooperate, graduate. Roger. And, you know, I just wrote next to that, play the game.

And it's like, you know, Some people, they want to let their ego get in the way And sometimes you've got to put your ego in check And just play the game Just cooperate, play the little stoopy You want to wear it, sunglasses, cool And the thing was during the pre-training,

I had worn the issued ones And I had sunburned my eyes, Which is painful if you have that experience. So the first thing I did not sunburned my eyes. Oh, it's brutal. They close up. This happened when you were skiing? Yeah, the pre-trained up to the course,

we went up to the mountains in Korska And Virgio, they have a, like a, the rep has a chalet there for training And I had done exactly that. It had rained, so all the snow on the mountain was ice. So it reflected the sun the next day. And it would go right through the glasses or underneath the ice. So you're some learning the flesh, the skin, or the eyes?

No, the actual eye, the eye, the iris. And it basically just closes up. It's painful. It's not much fun. Hence, my acquisition of the best glass is possible right away. Which were what? Just your civilian. Just some nice UV blocking, blah, blah, blah, blah.

They weren't from leftovers from DMM Fu, you know. As military issue type stuff is. And yeah, so I had those on and he was like, yeah, those aren't military issues. So I just play the game. When he was around, I would, yeah, throw them on. Anyway, play the game. It wasn't vain, it was, yeah, it was more effectiveness of the glasses.

Yeah, yeah, well, after you have to. And they look better too, that's true. Of course. But just when you give me sunburned eyes, like I'm not wanting none of that. No. Snow blind. So here we go.

We're rolling now into into the DRock, right? the Republic of Congo Is that where we're going? Yep, correct. Brazbo. Yeah, we called that the D-Roc. As I stepped off the ramp, I noticed that the airport tower and terminal

were stippled with impacts of different calibers from recent fighting. President President Dennis Sasu Nguesso His paramilitary group referred to as the Cobra's control

certain neighborhoods within the city as well as the airport. Other areas were controlled by groups with similarly absurd names like the ninjas or the rambos. But they were no joke. Life here was cheap and these groups had been all been involved in combat and numerous atrocities. As we approached the city center, Smithy pointed out the buildings used by the Congolese army as firing positions during the ambush. He showed us the exact area where Gilles had been killed. I could feel the weight of that section's history among my teammates, many of whom had been there that day. We entered the Empoko neighborhood where the presidential palace and government buildings were located in the area most heavily affected by the recent fighting. Empoko was a ghost town.

We wove our way between scorched and abandoned vehicles alongside burned out houses. my first so now you guys are doing like um some duty my first guard shift was that evening armed with my famas NVG's webbing a small ops pack i made the short walk by my observation bunker on the perimeters or to my observation bunker on the perimeter's wall i was already sweating from the humidity days prior we had been freezing in the alps tonight we were roasting in the Congo gunfire within a couple hundred meters of me caught my full attention i heard a crack and a thump of the bullet there was some shouting then silence nothing came of it this was additional background noise you got used to I watched the shadows listening and trying to get

a feeling for my some surroundings then came another sudden explosion of noise something had hit the op roof above me hard immediately my heart rate went well past the red line into transient I instinctively ducked down and took off took my FAMOS off safety what the fuck was that As I tried to figure out what had just happened, I heard something heavy rolling on the tin roof above me. The softball size object dropped off the ledge with a dull thud. I immediately realized what it was. A ripe mango that had fallen from the tree above.

Many more mango alerts followed, but I kept my cool. And actually, you actually mentioned on there that when the next guy came to turn over, you didn't tell them anything about the back. Yeah, let him enjoy that experience. Our captain was, talking about your leadership here, our captain was more flight than fight. That's how I felt anyway.

It was his attitude. This is a new, sorry, this is a new officer. Yep, yep. If we thought of ourselves as elite, we should act it. I looked at soldiering as a combination of aptitude and the access to the right training, but most importantly, one's attitude.

When getting thrown into the shit, reaction comes down to a, fight or flight instinct i believe we're born with that it's not taught but it is refined with training just because i can run 30 kilometers with a backpack doesn't mean him a better soldier than the next guy or vice versa a soldier prepares for the fight and it doesn't stop um continuing this guard duty i was partnered with sergeant chief de la chapelle whom i found to be smart and very easygoing his father in fact had spent time in a military prison for his part in the Algerian push. Pooch.

Poach. I turned 28. There's no cake or celebration, just more guard duty. And maybe the runs. Oh, yeah. When our three months in Brazzaville were up, a replacement team arrived. But several months later, we returned. Same job.

This time, though, the rains had transformed the city into a lush mix of vegetation. The neighborhood around the Casa de Gaul had been cleaned of rubble and garbage as we drove down the road. I saw that shops and bars had sprung up alongside. Brazzaville was alive once more. People were drinking and listening to loud music.

Soccer fields were full of kids and adults playing. What a difference, a few months of relative calm in the city make. These were happier times. With the monotony, so now you're on this deployment, there's much more peaceful.

With the monotony, physical activity was the only way for us to keep sane and burn off plenty of negative energy. Ursa, who had become a good friend, boxed prior to joining the Legion, and he was my coach and sparring partner for the duration of the tour, so you're getting your boxing on.

Brazzaville stabilized, and we were free to visit the city when we weren't on duty. Ersa, Smitty, Smithy, and I took that opportunity one evening, as everyone did. And again, you talk about what young men do.

As with most short-term remedies, alcohol and these nighttime diversions led to problems. Sergeant Prezent while returning from town late one evening made a condescending comment to Salick, to Salak, who was on guard duty at breakfast the following morning. Prejent's Black Eye was a topic of a great discussion. It wasn't long before Captain Martin warned all of us that if something like this happened again, both participants would be flown back to CalVee and charged regardless of who is at fault.

This made me start to consider my life long term. 30 years of age was just around the corner. Did I want to be a legionaire for the better part of it? I wasn't convinced that I did. Two Russian-made Mill 24 hind gun ships hired by the local government and flown by foreign pilots appeared over the Casad de Gaul every few days.

I always made an effort to get out onto the grass field and watch them fly over. The upper portions of the fuselage were painted in jungle camo. The underbelly was light blue, and they made a hell of a racket. One afternoon as I stood looking up at one fly over to low level, I thought to myself, I want to fly helicopters. Our last month passed without further fisticuffs, and we were eventually replaced.

For me, it couldn't have happened soon enough. And then you're on leave, you're snowboarding, and now you start planning my Legion exit strategy. I completed the administrative application process for the Vancouver Island Helicopters flight training program in Victoria, British Columbia. So that last trip down there, you're feeling like you're done. Yeah, I think I can see the repetitive type. You start looking at your peers at the job. I could see that it was become repetitive. The lack of actual is obviously having its effects and other guys are getting on each other's case.

Do I want to be an NCO? Is that something that I want to do with the rest of my life? Because you can see your peers, what they're going to go through. And basically you can see your career in front of you, just watching the other guys. And I figured that at that age, it was time to make a choice. I was still young enough to make a change, but, you know, getting on that I need to do so sooner than later. So I made the call. What was that term you told me earlier about someone that's unfit for return to civilian life?

Yeah, en up civil. So what does that translate to directly? It would be incapable of civilian life. So if you say, yeah, you basically spend too much time in the system, you just won't survive. out in the civilian world. Institutionalized. Yeah, your institutionalized, exactly. So, you know, at that point, I'm coming up on six years.

I have options. That's, I'm lucky, you know, I'm Canadian. I can go home. There's lots of, lots of stuff. What's the retirement for? It was 15 years. It's not a huge chunk of money. I mean, you still have to work after that.

And that's definitely, that was definitely not a factor. Even after eight years, I think you recover all your taxes that you paid into the system. So you get a chunk of change. They had offered me to go down to, to Djibouti to be an instructor on their Artipalaj commandal course, which was tempting. But, um, your booty was tempting.

Well, I mean, bro. Yeah, no, fair one. But, you know, it was, but that would have got me to the eight years. So I would have had a chunk of money, which would have helped with a flight training. It's instructor duty, which I'm sure is a little bit. Exactly. But at that point, I had made my mind up and off, I was, I was out, which was tough. You feel like, you know, you're, they've put the time and effort.

As I mentioned, you know, they obviously get you trained up, put time. and effort and you got friends you got friends yeah and you feel like you're bumming out on guys that are counting on you but there's life too more to more to life than that um yeah there is kind of crazy it's kind of hard to see that when you're in uh you are doing a demonstration jump on cameroom day and your parents were actually there and uh i wanted to bring this point up because that evening you you go for like a dinner and There's a lot of veterans there. And you say this, the veteran legionnaires of the Indochina and Algeria campaigns.

In post-second World War, France, German POWs were given the option of joining the Legion. And this influx had far-reaching influences on the organization. To this day, Rep's second company song is the former Vermark marching song, Adelweiss. It was sung several times during the night and brought up emotions for our veteran guests. during the evening some of them shared their experiences recounting past exploits in vivid detail others just listened content to sit among fellow legionnaires paratroopers again as german paratrooper major rudolph bulmer said the secret of a paratrooper success can be summed up in three words comradeship espri decor and efficiency yeah those were the real legionnaires into china Algeria previously obviously yeah like tough tough guys so yeah and yeah some of them We're just happy to be amongst peers again and not say much and enjoy their wine or whatever and others would share stories, but I definitely respected the history. Yeah, and that's just the fact that post-second World War II German POWs, so these are men that fought to the death or almost to the death against France. And now they're getting told, yep, if you want to join the Legion, come on over.

Exactly. And there's a lot of wordage, for example, Akhtung has used all the time. Yeah, there's tons of German words that are in the... Legion vernacular you know that they use and that's from them you know that's neat and they had you know obviously good soldiers so they brought them with them a lot of good tools and yeah for sure you go on here I pass before captain Desmuley not long afterwards and was asked if I was resigning I needed to confirm yes or no I duly informed Captain Desmoulet that I wasn't extending past the six year mark I had given a lot of thought and I told him that I had applied to be a

Canadian helicopter I had applied to a Canadian helicopter flight training program and that I'd been accepted which was true. Six years in the Legion wasn't something you just walk away from easily. Nevertheless I felt I needed to move on. And then you told the company captain the same thing and he's the one that

offered you the commando course. Correct. Which you didn't expect but standing in that office my Kepi at my side. My pull to move on was stronger. I was almost 29 and at a crossroads. I respect declined the captain accepted my choice the demul he went on to lead the regiment when they jumped into molly oh wow Timbuktu and go and wrote the

forward on the book which gives it its legitimacy he'll be a general here he's doing that's on the right track yeah we have to have them on the podcast at some point there you go continuing on again jumping forward a little bit it was time to close this chapter on my life in the legion the following morning this is after you kind of got back and you're getting cycled out the following morning as for my orders i passed before captain des muley so am i saying that right uh demur de m de m and i thought i was nailing it too close i threw it like a little something on it and thought i was doing all right not even close demue and he gave me a gp section plaque and wish me good luck i said goodbye to

my teammates and wish them a safe but operational future that's a freaking great line i wish them a safe but operational future. It felt like I was betraying them somewhat, but everyone has to make choices, and I made mine. I boarded the ferry in Bostia on August 31st, 2000, leaving behind Corsica. It had been my home for five years. I'd miss it in the days I spent swimming along its beaches,

hiking and running in the wooded trails, skiing the carved mountains, driving the narrow roads, and embracing Corsica's unique approach to life. It was a place I wouldn't forget anytime soon, arriving where my journey had started six years ago as a younger man with a less with a less worldly outlook and experience i joined a group of 25 other legionnaires from various regiments they were also going seville in a few days we were subjected to final medical and more administrative protocols before presenting ourselves in the offices of a colonel he asked if i was certain about my decision to leave the legion it felt like a lifetime ago that i stood in front of that whitewashed three-story building staring at the words legio patria nostra on that September day in 1994 almost six years ago my hand hovered over the push button doorbell as I hesitated unsure if I could commit to what lay ahead

today however my resolve was firm and then you go forward that day finally arrived one by one we entered the office of the legions commanding on commanding general and presented ourselves his office was quite large so most of the time was spent walking to and from the spot where we were to present ourselves. It was a quick, yes, sir, no sir, a fair. The commanding general wished me. Good luck, and that was it. Our group was taken to the Legion Museum

to see Captain Dan Hughes. Saying that right? Donjuu. Donju's wooden hand. And you tell that story, it's a great story about Captain Danju and his wooden hand and its historical significance.

And we finished up by joining the general for a group photo in front of the monument for the dead. when I got back to the barracks I took off my uniform for the very last time and changed into my civilian clothes with my bags packed I walked to the regiment's front gate

perhaps a little faster than normal I had a train to catch I presented my authorization slip to the duty sergeant at the front gate looked down at my new light blue Nikes and walked outside I was a civilian once again boom

Boom. That's a wrap. That's a wrap. I thought that was a rap when I read. I was like, okay, that's a good place to end the podcast. But I actually, I got to go a little bit more. I mean, there's more. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, but that is, that is a wrap. I mean, obviously that's a wrap on a huge part of your life and something that's left a huge impact on you. I always remember cleaning out the final bits of my operational gear from my locker, loading it into my van. Yeah. And driving off base for the last time and thinking, well, that was a stuff. And I spent, well, kind of like you spent six years based out of Corsica.

I spent 18 out of 20 years based in Coronado, California. And really probably most of those years in like a span of like three or four buildings that were all right next to each other. So a vast majority of my career was in these three or four buildings and that's where I checked out of and left. Not easy to do. No. And thank you for your service. by the way. You mentioned that on the card. No, that was an honor.

Here you say before I return to Canada, I needed to pay my respects. After several hours on the train and a short taxi ride, I arrived in the village of Riviers. Approved? Approved. Here I walked the length of 2,049 headstones at the Canadian War Cemetery, where Canadian soldiers who fell at Normandy had been laid to rest. On its rolling hills, I looked at the soldiers' names and ages and was humbled by their sacrifice. I then walked along Juno Beach where my paternal grandfather landed on June 6, 1944 D-Day.

Not far away was Sword Beach, where my maternal grandfather drove his Sherman tank off the boat only a few days later. On that day, more than a half a century later, I was prouder than ever of my family's military heritage and Canadian history. On my flight back to Canada, I wasn't celebrating my return home. my future was uncertain, but the legions system D. And that's, that stands for it, demerd. Demerd, exactly. Which means shit, right? Merid is shit.

Demerd is more like figured out. Yeah, that's, okay, so merd means shit. And demerd means it's basically work shit out. Correct. Within weeks, I started flight training in Victoria, British Columbia, adjusting civilian life took time. There were no more whistles or night jumps over them at, over a Mediterranean island.

The uncertainty of employment and novelty of paying bills were my new reality. Roger that. You must save a lot of money in the Legion since you don't have to pay for anything. No, I think you probably take advantage of your time off and spend more than you should. You're just the richest man in the bar.

I did. I had enough. I sent money home. My dad was wise enough to help me and he invested and it paid for my helicopter training, which was a chunk. So, yeah, I was able to finance the exit strategy. Another good section here.

Talking about your grandfather, I didn't ask my grandfather enough about his experience. At the time, I felt that he would share more if you really wanted to discuss these things. Sadly, he passed and my hero was lost. In his memoir, entitled, an amateur soldier, my grandfather doesn't say much about Den Bien Pugh. However, he wrote, any kind of flying in 1954 was a novel to me, but first class on Air France was something else again. I was served a hot toddy of brandy and milk by a super stewardess and delicious meals are things I long remember. I guess that after years of war, your immediate priorities change. Why focus on the negatives?

My grandfather also wrote, People often ask veterans what feelings they have when they know that they survive the horrors of a dreadful war. Surprisingly enough, a good many answer, a sense of guilt. Roger. Yeah. Can I comment on? Absolutely. So before going to Legion, obviously I'd seen pictures of the rep jumping into

Daim Bufu, which is where the regiment, the rep was decimated or the precursor to the rep. And those, you know, that history, those pictures were something that were definitely a big part of me joining. When I was going to flight school and I would go and have lunch or dinner with my grandparents, he mentioned that he had flown into Dambeamfu. but a week after the capitulation of the French and he was there as a two IC for the precursor to the UN so that blew me away that I don't if there's a connection there but just the fact that

you know I was taken by the M.M. Fu I go and serve in the Frenchborn Legion and my grandfather had actually been there you know a week after the war had ended or that particular battle had ended and that just for whatever reason that just really hit home I don't know if that was it meant anything but it was just it was a big part of of this book.

Think about what he thought with you going to join the rat. And he knew that they had been decimated. So at the beginning, he was, you know, a wise man. He didn't say much. He just said, if you go there, make sure you're going for the right reasons and represent your country

well, but he didn't go into. Because he did have some ideas on what the Legion was based on his experience at him, M. Fu. And then when I was, you mentioned that I was writing letters, those letters were going to him when I was in Central Africa. At the end, he, as I did, learn more about the Legion

and respected a little more and got a better picture of what I was doing. So as a result, he was more open about some of his experiences during the war, because he felt that I think is my small taste, albeit nowhere near what my grandfather experienced, but I had that small taste of, as a soldier can, you can talk to another soldier when you've been similar scenarios. So did he tell you more about World War II once you came back?

He did? Not in much detail. And how about his book? His book, yeah. So he was doing his, he was actually doing his degree in history and writing his memoirs. And as I mentioned there, he had. Can you get me a copy? By all means?

Yeah. 100% yeah. I'm also. I have, you know. I'll ship it to if you want. And if you promised to, I'm sure he will send it back. Oh, there's that few copies of it? Yeah.

Unless I could probably figure something else. But if you want, I can ship you my. Yeah. Anyway. We'll get it figured out. Yeah, figured out. He, um, he hadn't kept a diary with him war. And when he was writing his memoirs, he said,

I made you all if any advice, just write down your memories now. Because if you don't, you'll regret it. So I took him up on that. And that's when I wrote everything down. Yeah, that's how you get dates. Yeah. You get dates throughout this book and accurate. Exactly.

And there was obviously more after the fact, you know, the research and friends helping and then getting all the information I needed. But he was the precursor to me putting this story to paper. And it sat for a decade. Like it was 150,000 words on a word document. No respect for the English language or punctuation or anything. It was just bra. Verbal diarrhea.

and over, you know, the decade with age and experience and, you know, things came up. My perspective changed and nothing came out that was representative of a Legionaire yet since Legion era. And I kept them waiting and then I thought, hey, maybe it's on me. So I started putting in the time and effort to work on the story. And it took a chunk of time, but I'm proud of the end result. And the fact that the Legion approved its narrative. Yeah.

I have a forward from obviously my former commanding officer, which is a first for a book of its type. It gives it its legitimacy, and then the fact that Wilford-Lory was able to, or willing to publish it. That was two factors I needed. I needed the Legion's background or the backing, and then a respectable publisher to give it that.

Because then I knew that it was a good story. If Wilford-Lory was willing to put their name on it, I knew that it was sound. And I had help. I'm a soldier, not a writer. Well, it came out great. I mean, it's fantastic. book.

Yeah, you continue on a little bit here. Flying helicopters commercially meant that initially limited opportunities were afforded to low-time pilots, along with low wages. So in slower winter seasons, I worked as a security contractor for a British forum based in London, England, supporting exploration efforts in North Africa and later government contracts in Iraq and Afghanistan. So you went on the contractor circuit for a while, too. I did, yeah.

Yeah. That had to be interesting as well. Many legionnaires? Not a ton. The Algeria stuff, yeah, armor group, they no longer exist. They were bought out by G4S. But they would hire a lot of ex-legionnaires

because of obviously the French, the English supporting Halliburton Oil had quite a few rigs in Algeria. So you'd be there as an operation liaison coordinator, basically just the rigs because of the terrorism issue in Algeria, they would be secured by the Algerian army. So you'd just be the liaison between the army and the client. So that was about it.

But when Iraq kicked off, It was more an interest in seeing what else, how else things were done. Um, that was the, the interest going there. And what years were you there? Uh, it was late or really early 2004. So it was fresh just when. So initially it was. Yeah.

Yeah. So initially it was Kellogg Brown and Root had gotten the, because we looked after KBR in Algeria. They're, they're a, they're a part of Halliburna. In fact, Dick Cheney, I think that was a CRI right. They got the log cap contract to build all the bases for the American military. in Iraq, the defects, supply all the fuel. So we went over there initially.

We had three floors at the Sheraton and we hired a whole bunch of local nationals and the idea was to train them up on close protection. And then when the executives from KBR came in and went to all these different spots, we would take them. So that was my initial introduction to. And at that point, 2004, things were really that busy for people on the ground. There was no IED issue. And then I came back the next year and things were.

We're a little busier in Baghdad and we were doing low profile PSD. So at that point, there was quite a few companies that were a little bit aggressive in their approach or their rules of engagement and as you know better than I the Bathurst or the Terrace, whatever they were they decided to go after the PSD teams. So what we were doing is we were doing the low profile PSD. So we had just buy local Mercedes BMWs and we tried to blend in so it would be helpful. Yeah, exactly. Just just try to blend in and it would be two expats and Iraqis and uh we we had our DoD badges like we're all and uh we'd have a nice Union Jack classified in the front with us and if when your patrols pulled up beside us or god forbid blackwater or another PST team like that we'd

be on the windows too right away because if they look down and see an Iraqi with an AK on their left they're not going to ask questions so yeah I did that and then I was up into Crete for a while and then Afghanistan kicked off and I did that for a full year down in Helmand And what were you doing there? There they had again Armour Group got the The contract for the British Embassy FCO

Foreign Commonwealth Office And the Brits had the Helmand province So this they sent down an advisor To the governor helmet So we were embedded with the Initially it was the the Perge And then the Royal Marines And we just basically

We had a small compound within their PRT Which is a little base they had in the center of town and then we had a house attached to the governor's compound. And we just, our client's name was Tom. We'd just take him. He had a floor underneath the governor's floor office. And basically he was just back and forth, take him where he had to go.

We'd fly out to some of the areas sometimes with the Brits. At that point, Greshk was going off, Sangan. So there was a lot of, you know, efforts going on, just figure that out. So I did that for a year. and I started to yeah I missed the flying I had been there seen it it was interesting good experience but kind of felt mad enough and went back to flying full time in Canada so actually I did want to when I read the closing this book I wanted to at least bring it home because I think it's I think

it's awesome and so here's what's going on you're in France you're with your kids you meet with some of your old Legion friends and again I'm not gonna cover every the detail that you give is great in the book But you know you they the old Legion friends kind of invite you to Yeah the CEO invites you to see the regiment in in Calvi and so you're gonna drive there with your children and you're thinking you're gonna show them the regiment and it says this driving the final stretch of course goes coastal road we descended into Calvi Bay on the same road I had taken all those years ago as a young legionaire. After several, Are we there yet? I told my kids,

shut your mouth and put on your Kepi's. Approaching the regiment's front gate, I slowed right down, looking into its parade square and passing. The emotions I felt at that exact moment are difficult to explain. We drove past, checked into our Calvi Hotel,

and spent the rest of the day swimming at the beach. The next morning, after some delicious croissants, orange juice, and two strong cafe crems for me at one of the citadel cafes we drove to the regiment. Parked outside the regiment's gates, noting the new rep insignia painted on its water tower, I asked my kids what they wanted to do. Visit the regiment or go snorkeling at the beach.

Perhaps they could sense the answer I was looking for. The rep was in my past, and the regiment was busy, doing real work. My focus now was on my son, Carter, and daughter, Kyle, and snorkeling. Shout out to Carter and Kyle. Long live the Legion. And that's how you wrap it up. And I thought that that was that idea of, yeah, long live the Legion.

But at the same time, you got your new focus now, which is your son and your daughter. And I thought that that's a lot of people have a hard time doing that. shifting their focus from their past to their present and then to their future. So I thought that that was an awesome way to tie it together and put things in perspective. I appreciate that. So what, look, we've been going for a long time. But before we do wrap it up completely, let's talk a little bit about what you're up to now. Sure.

So I know you've got, you've got a risk mitigation firm. Yeah, so I flight helicopters commercially for a couple of companies. for a company called Mustang out of Alberta. So that's my full-time job. And what kind of helicopter flights are those? We do firefighting in the summer. Okay. This summer I did repel.

So the Alberta government has a repel program where they initial attack, they repel into the fires. In fact, they just canceled the, but we do that. And then winters, we heli ski. So when I go back. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Whereabouts is this?

Revelstoke. Yeah, Revelstoke. Yeah. We got four 205s and four A stars busy, and we do that. all year and actually the season started yesterday. So I did my, my training last week and when I get home, be back into it. And then yeah, as you mentioned, I'm a partner in a risk mitigation company. Two of the names in the book, they're partners in the company, but we're just, you know, a small, it's Ravenhill risk control.

Um, the name is the VC that's in the family and, uh, George A Raven. George, Ray, Raymond. George, a Raven Hill. One of eight recipients to have the medal taken back. It's a sad story. It's, uh, definitely he went on, you know, that's the board. War War, where he won the VC, went on the fight in the First World War. So he's completely awarded the VC.

Awarded the VC shot through the arm. And back then, as I mentioned, he went of eight. He was, came back from the, where he obviously suffered and he was in like a penal regiment for some of his transgressions or whatever. I think he was on the sauce drinking. And they weren't paying him his monthly wage that he felt they were supposed to be. And he went and he stole two pence, I think it was 12 pence worth of steel in Birmingham. And it was basically to sell to pay for it.

food for his family and he was caught and for that they took the metal back um he went on to they had to send four of his kids to orphanages and u.s and Canada and he died at my age um destitute sad story but you know a brave brave soldier did his did his thing for his country and paid the paid the price so i used yeah raven hill is the name out of respect you said there's eight people that have had their vCs revoked taken back was that all the same they changed no different over time but the government There's been eight people have had their victorious crosses revoked. Correct.

Yeah. Take him back. Have they changed that back and given it back to him now? It's in the museum in Birmingham, the regiment museum that he was part of. They have it. But is he recognized now as a recipient? He's a VC winner. 100%.

Yeah, he did the DEW. Yeah, of course. Obviously. Yeah. Okay. And then also you've started off a PTSD organization? Yeah, well, it's, yeah, Legion engineered. It's early days.

Within the next couple months here, it'll be a foundation. The idea is just to sell apparel online to support veteran affairs PTSD-type efforts, regardless of where the soldiers come from. The idea being if there's more sales from the U.S., we would send it to Veteran Affairs program in the U.S. If it was more from the U.K., kind of whatever. But, yeah, the efforts more just to get awareness out there.

I was recently invited to be the guest speaker at my old regiment, the Royal Westminster Regiments, their senior NCO dinner. And, yeah, it seemed like PTSD is just rampant. I don't know what the reason for. They had a couple of young guys that came back from Afghanistan and decided they couldn't take it anymore and shot themselves.

And I was like, you know, I was looking for something to do that wasn't just all about, you know, we have the business, but that's about making money. It's just selfish at the end of the day. And this idea of Legion engineer had been there for a while and I was like, you know what, why don't I just put those two together? So that's the objective is to build

it and hopefully you know if it's just a small amount of money but at least it's something that I can do to to give back and certainly in all of CPSD has it's history in the family so yeah that's the objective and that's legion engineered dot com that is correct and then the other one is Ravenhill Risk Control right now and we're a licensed security company in BC yeah is that is that only in British Columbia is that well Canada Canada but we're mostly domestic we support a couple projects there's a company that has a a gold mine and we facilitate the movement of gold ready to be.

There's an NHL team that uses us. When the owners fly over to France, for example, to go to the Cannes Film Festival, they'll use us for our networking because we can reach out from guys that we had met during our courses and say, hey, you know, you're interested in working for the couple weeks. And so, yeah, we have that ability to reach on network with the people that we've met from our time in, which is our success. Nice. Yeah.

And then on Instagram, is that your main? social media? You know, I'm new. That was a learning curve for the book. I didn't have a Facebook before Appel. Yeah, Joel Struthers for I guess Facebook and Instagram and then there's at or Legion Engineer for you. At Legion Engineer. Yeah, correct. At Joel Struth. Correct. And what's at Appel WLU Press? Yeah, so that's just for the book itself. Correct, yeah. Yeah. Let's focus on at Joel Struthers. That would be my recommendation. I appreciate that, Jones.

Thank you. Just because you'll write another book or you'll do something else. Just for the book, I'll just focus on Joel Struthers, at Joel Struthers. Eckher, you got anything else? You still play hockey?

I don't. No, no. I went to, I had a midlife and I went back and played rugby. Yeah. Did you get hurt? You got hurt. Even my kids say, why are you doing this?

I blew up my lateral. See? Okay, yeah. So I did both. mind, by the way. Not doing that, though, but my little brother plays this football game. We used to play football. He plays this football game.

He's like, you know, 30-something, which I guess now doesn't seem that old. But compared to high school. Yeah, different times. But he thinks he's back in the game, right? Territ's his peck also. Yeah, man, don't know. No, it's rugby too. That's bold.

It was, yeah, not a wise decision. Yeah, man. It taught me pretty quick that you're no longer there. As life does. He'll check you. Yeah, yeah. Right on. Joe, you got any other final thoughts?

No, sir. Maybe a final thing. Just I'm humbled for the opportunity. Obviously, I've watched your podcast. I've seen the guests on here. And just to be among some of the names and stories and medals that have been in this chair, I'm more than humbled. So I appreciate the opportunity.

And the objective of the book was to educate. If people are interested in the subject matter and they want to know the truth, it certainly tries to do that for them and that is yeah all thank you yeah well thanks coming on the book is fantastic i really i really loved reading it um and thanks for writing that book thanks for coming on here obviously sharing your story thanks for your uh thanks for your sacrifice you know and you mentioned that what the legion does around the world is like it's real stuff and it is protecting freedom and it is protecting innocent people and it is protecting democracy. And so thanks for your service there. Thanks for your service as a contractor as well because that's an unsung position. And look,

there's all kinds of crazy things that happen with contractors and there's bad views of them and good views of them. But I know this. It's a hard job. It's a job that people don't want to do. It's a huge risk when you do it. And what you're doing is trying to help forward the positive things in the world, America's goals, the freedom's goals around the world. So thanks for what you did there. So thanks for supporting America and our allies, both as a contractor. And of course, I guess I'll close with Long Live the Legion. Thanks, sir. Appreciate it. Thanks for coming on, man. My pleasure. And with that, Joel Struthers has left the building. Some great insight on the Legion from someone who lived it and we are definitely lucky to hear from these men in

person live and speaking of live I'm doing some live gigs January 6th in D.C. I'm going to be January 11th in Austin I'm going to be January 16th in New York I'm going to be January 20th in LA. I'm going to be January 27th in Seattle, Washington, and I'm going to January 28th in SF. Decisive engagement. I am going to talk words and thoughts. Some of these gigs are already sold out. I have seen that there are tickets available on the secondary market. Do you know what that is? Echo channels. More like a scalping scenario? Yes. So there are tickets available on the secondary market. The prices are getting jacked. on the secondary market so if you're in one of the cities you want to come go check it out

because otherwise you might get shifted onto the secondary market and you're going to pay a higher price point so check it out now today awesome to have Joel on talk about the legion many times today I used the term long live the legion I made that statement And that's good. I'm supporter. Long live the Legion. What about us? How do we make our lives longer and better?

Let me ask you that. Echo Charles, what do you got? Well, the easy, the quick, short answer is health. Health. What does that mean, though? Health. Stress, that's a good one. Stress management.

A guy just asked me on Twitter. Can you give me an example that's not physical where stress will help? you. Not physical. Like not physical. Like, okay, I get it. If I work out, I'm going to get stronger. If I run hard, I'm going to get healthier or whatever. And he said, can you give me an example where it's not physical, but stress helps you? Yeah. All kinds of stress helps you in the same way. You can overload it. I mean, I used a very simple example of speaking in front of people, which is stressful for some people. And if it's stressful for you and you do it, it'll become less stressful over time. So stress is good. Yeah,

Basically, the basic formula is stress and then recovery from stress with healthy recovery. Sleep. Physically, yes, nutrition, sleep. Exactly right. We'll just call it recovery effect or correct recovery from the stress equals strength. Yes. And that goes for non-physical as well. Yeah, 100%.

And the same goes inversely. If you don't have any stress at all, it's like if you don't have any exercise. So sure, you're more comfortable. You're more, you know, these things. Less stressed. But when life, so unless you live, unless you're living in a bunker when the stress of life comes. You just pated yourself with you a quarter on that one. No, no, no.

You see what I'm saying. Less of these things. These things, all that stuff. Yeah. All those things. Can't think of any right now, but all of them. You understand what I'm saying? I do.

Speaking of speaking in public. And then when they come into your life, you're not going to be able to deal with them. You can be weak. They're going to crumble you potentially. Same goes for. you don't effectively recover from stress. That's why people like non-physical stress, people always regard it. It's like, oh, my gosh, my life is stress.

Because most times when you have too much stress or chronic stress, it's the same thing as like chronic exercise. Bray, you can't exercise all day, every day. You've got to rest from this stuff. You've got to recover from it. Rest between sets, all that stuff. So the same kind of deal, except for when people say, oh, it's just stressful. It's like they look at it as a different kind of stress,

even though at the end of the day, it's essentially the same. thing. We need stress. Yeah. In order to get better. Stress. One good form of stress that you can participate in, and it's very rewarding, is Jiu-Jitsu.

See, and Jiu-Sit-Sin-a-way is kind of the opposite of what we regard, like, stress. Like, people go to J-J-J-Zer to relieve stress, but technically, that's not what stress is. Like, stress is just basically a sort of like a challenge, right? Yeah, like a resistance. Yeah. And there's certainly resistance in J-J-J-Zer. And it is really. resistance that will make you stronger, better, smarter, faster, just better.

Better in every single capacity. Oh, yeah, man. So you and you, you'll do this every once in a while. You'll just have this emotional outburst. This is me? You. In this way. On the mats of justice.

No, no, no, no, no. Here's the thing. Me saying emotional outburst is like, it's kind of misleading. Like, you know, when you think of emotional outbursts, it's like a bad thing almost. But you'll just break out of nowhere and be like, I list love jujitsu. That's an emotional help. So like, yeah, like in New York, you said that, but, bro, I feel that. I think that in my head so much, even though like, even not even necessarily when I'm doing it.

A lot of times when I'm done doing it, man, so crazy how this exists. Just for everybody. It is out there. The craziest, funnest thing. Yeah. It's weird. Like, certain times you can go to Jiu-Jitsu and be in such a good mood. You can see yourself behaving in almost like a weird childish way because you're so happy.

A little excited child. Yes. Yeah. That is a literally statement. Yeah. Anyway. So if you're not doing Jiu Jit,

just do some Jiu Jit. just try, man. Bring a friend. Bring a friend. That's actually a good way to maximize bring your friend. True. Or your husband and wife or whatever.

True. It's a good way. Anyway, when you do it, you're going to need a ghee. Best Gie in the world. Factually is an origin geat. You get these at origin, Mane.com.

So why is it the best in the world? Well, one, because it's made in America. You know. It's weird that you put that number one. Because there's some people, that say number one it's the best functionality strength performance it's the best for some people that's number one sure and that's a strong case you can build a strong case for that all day long I actually support that case if you wanted to pick one

reason and say hey here's why you should get an orange and gee look I don't care about anything else I care about Jitza I want the best possible I can get okay I'm getting an origin key yeah there happens to be a bonus on top of that that is made in America yeah that's kind of like the roots to the whole scenario. You see what I'm saying? Because all the things about my selfish like benefits of having this game wearing this gear or whatever, sure there's some front end stuff. Front end benefits are huge, huge. But when you talk about Maine in America, the American economy, American industry, all this stuff, this is all going on, you know, as roots of this scenario.

So I'm saying. So yeah, man, I dig it. Whatever way you want to look at it. I'll even, I'll go one further as far as the selfish benefits of. of these origin geese. So I'm cleaning out my closet. Literally yesterday, yesterday, day before yesterday. I don't know. It doesn't matter.

Really recently. And I have my old geese in there. Where I put it out. I was like, man, look at it. You know, I was like, oh, I remember this gear. I put it on. I was like, oh, damn. I would never wear this thing.

It was borderline torturous to wear it. It was bad. All right. So get an origin geese for the performance. And by the way, yes, when you get one, you are supporting this podcast. Most important when you get a gift. from a support perspective, you're supporting yourself and you're supporting the United States of

America and its economy. We're rebuilding a community. It's true. Plus, if you don't necessarily want to wear a guy to the supermarket, to the club, as far as clubs go, yeah, you don't want to wear a guy there. You can wear origin t-shirts. You can wear origin sweatshirts. You can wear origin jeans. By the way, Pete's mad at me. Okay. Okay, because I announced Delta 68 lightweight jeans with a little bit of stretch in them now the all origin genes have a little bit of stretch in them but the are super comfortable little lightweight because I'm not a person that gets cold legs I know it's weird and I know it's a dichotomy that I want heavyweight shirt heavyweight sweatshirt heavyweight hoodie lightweight jeans but that's how I am sure here I am

so check out the jeans and also we got supplements up there which are important Big time, especially for longevity, long list, right? True. Supplements, big time. But keep you in the game. So, man, I'm not going to tell you how old I am, even though we already know. But I'm older than I was before. And I continue, I don't want to say, I surprised myself.

I'm not saying that. But I'm very happy with where I am physically capability wise, like able to, you know, Maintainment with yourself. Well, let's say we're not mad. How about that? We're not mad at it. You're content. Where capability-wise, you know, I can do essentially the same things, as far as I can

remember, that I was doing back in the day. When? Back in the day. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. So, and of course, because of joint warfare, krill oil. And actually, you know what I take almost not every day, but like really often, even though

I don't quote, unquote, need it is Cold War. Yeah. They mean. It's nice to have that little kicker. Yeah. That little Cold War kicker. Well, the ingredients are beneficial.

Yeah. Just generally speaking. General benefits. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Good. Also discipline and discipline go in the can, by the way.

Which you can just crack open at almost any moment. Pretty much any moment. Pretty much any moment. And then there's discipline go, the powder, which is a good little pre-jjjitsu. scenario oh wait it's not discipline goes just discipline just discipline and and my personal favorite flavor of any drink by the way is jaco Palmer just tasty

and then of course you got extra let's call it protein let me ask you this if you were gonna have protein would you want it to taste like cardboard a B salt water or C a dessert which one would you want Yeah, okay. We're real self-explanet to me on that one. So get milk. Get yourself some milk and get some warrior kid milk for your children. Don't give them poison.

Yeah. Actual poison. Don't. No, no, give them something tasty. Yes, agree.

Anyway, OriginMane.com is where you can get all these. White tea. Did you mention white tea? No, not yet. It is winter time. Sometimes you need that little warm hitter.

Yes. Get yourself some jocco white tea. Yes, very good. All right. Yeah, sir, just today was like, well, this jaco white tea is good.

And it's like, and I didn't really know what she meant because, you know, she's been in the jocco. My lovely wife. Because we've been drinking this stuff for a long time. So it's almost like she had an emotional output. Kind of right. She's like, this chaco white tea is so good. Actually, it just so happens that I got the new shipment in. So she might have been out of the game for a little bit.

You see what I'm saying? And then she got she revisited it. And then was like, you know, had that out. I got to say it is refreshing. Yeah. The cans? Refreshing. Yeah.

100% yes. More refreshing. Remember when you were a kid and you would drink Gatorade? Yes. And it kind of left that syrupy taste in your mouth and it's not refreshing. Sure. Was it refreshed to you? It depends on the circumstances.

But yeah. Well, you're not going to need any circumstantial issues going on. Got it. Crack open the joccal white tea. 100% refreshed. Yeah. under all circumstances. All circumstances covered.

I dig it. Also, if you or when you pick up a Pell, how do you? Appel, yeah, AP, E. Take it from me. Oh, my French speaker. Yeah, yeah, by Al Francais. La Franca. Anyway, we got it on our website, joccal store.com.

Click through books from episodes. You know, I'll have it listed there. Click through there. Take you to Amazon. Boom, there. And you can get it there. a good way to give a little bit of support to the podcast if you want to. Also, if you want to do that in a real simple way, kind of, for lack of better term, ongoing,

what you do is you save the landing page there on Amazon. Just save it to your bookmarks. And then when you go shop Amazon, boom, you click through there. That seems like it's not a big deal. It's not a big deal at all. To do, no, not at all. But then what about on the backside? Is it a big deal as far as support goes?

Huge deal. Provides big support. Massive support. Does it cost anyone anything? Negative. Cost them two clicks. Two clicks at first. Yeah, total.

That's it. Done after that. Yeah, man, that's a good, good, great way to support this whole, what do you call? Scenario. This is a scenario. A lack of a better term. Also, Jocko has a store, and it's called Jocco Store. We're sticking with Jocco Store, I think.

Very creative name. Jocco store.com. This is where you can get more rash guards, more represent, representative of the path specifically also you know shirts hoodies discipline equals freedom stuff if you want to represent while you're on this path it's never-ending perpetual path you can get official deathcore oh yeah big done anyway jococco.com check it out yeah man if you want something get something you get some work it stuff on there as well yeah good way support yourself

represent all that also subscribe to this podcast which if you haven't by now then you may want to actually just check yourself into some sort of rehabilitation program to make sure that you're okay mentally because if you haven't, if you've listened to 7,000 hours or whatever it is of this podcast, and you haven't hit subscribe yet, you're really avoiding commitment. Yeah, that's interesting. You're not really committed.

You need to get committed. So anyways, yeah, subscribe to the podcast on whatever medium you listen to podcasts on. Yeah. Also, This isn't the only podcast in this whole scenario. Okay. Grounded podcast. If you're interested in something a little bit more loose, free flowing, I was going to say magical, but that doesn't make sense.

But, you know, a little, little less structured, less heavy for sure. Definitely less heavy. Yeah. We have not, you have not cried on the grounded podcast yet. Which isn't saying much, but it is saying something. All right. Thank you, Jocco, for that. Although technically it is true.

So I haven't cried on the Worried Kid podcast either. I don't think I've been on the Warrior Kid. No, you haven't been on it, but you've been listening, and I've seen you get close. Well, on the Warrior Kid podcast? Have you been close? That's classified, but nonetheless, Worry Kid Podcast does exist,

and that's a good one too for the kids and for yourself. And by the way, there are four new Warrior Kid podcasts out at this time. Good. Yes, four new Warrior Kid Podcasts. at this time so sorry it took so long but there they are and you can get this and also speaking of warrior kids don't forget forget to get yourself some warrior kids soap from Irish Oaks ranch.com where young Aiden a warrior kid is making soap on his farm in Central California because that's what you do you get to work and you make

something that will help everyone in the world stay clean very true also we have a YouTube channel if you're interested in the video version of what we're doing here you're gonna see what Joel looks like you're gonna see what Jocko looks like if you want to see what echo looks like and apparently echo

doesn't look like what he sounds like in the unlikely event that you want to see what it looks like yes we have YouTube channel also some excerpts on there if maybe you're not at the mood to watch the whole 12 hour podcast We do sometimes. Yeah.

You know, you can see. So we have really short excerpts at Echo Banks that are only like 27 minutes. Yeah, sure. Just, you know, shirn them up a little bit. Cool. In my opinion, please let us know via social media. If you think an excerpt should be four minutes or 14. I'll tell you what I think.

And we all know what Echo thinks. Well, my opinion has been refined recently. What is it now focused on? There is no time constraint. or recommended guideline. It's however long it takes to get an effective message across. What I would like to see,

just a suggestion from my, I don't want to interfere with your business over there with what you do, really taking so much time and effort to cut out a 19-minute section and just put it up there. What if you just edited it down? So it was like, here's the point,

here's the question, here's the point. What if it was three minutes on? Well, you know, I don't know. Wouldn't that be more like an excerpt? I think it's all excerpt. Well, technically, what does excerpt mean? It just means like a part of something.

So it can be a 19 minute part. Fine. If the close, if the point takes 19 minutes to talk about it. I don't think the point takes 19 minutes in most cases. So I'm just saying reassess is all I'm saying. Let's not let our ego get in the way of making good decisions. Put it this way.

The jury's still out on that one. So we're going to keep moving forward. And we'll try to figure out the best way of it. So subscribe to the YouTube channel so you can watch 19 minute excerpts. Thank you. There's more stuff on there. I know. I know.

Anyway, yeah, if you want, we do. If you want something shorter to listen to, go to psychological warfare. It's an MP3 album. It has tracks where whatever moment of weakness you are experiencing, I will personally come through your headphones and help you overcome that moment of weakness by speaking words into your ears

and telling you to stay on the path. And don't forget if you need a visual representation of the path and a reminder to stay on it, check out flipsidecanvas.com, which is run by my brother, Dakota Meyer, where he makes things that are sometimes referred to as graphic art. And you can hang them on your walls,

and they say things like good, or get after it, or discipline equals freedom. Or you can tell Dakota what you want. As far as books go, first of all, the book that we covered today, Appel, a Canadian in the French Foreign Legion

by Joel Struthers, awesome book. Very cool. left out so many good stories, obviously, but it's a great book. So you can pick that up, click through the Amazon link. Also, we got leadership strategy and tactics field manual, which you can actually order now. And you should order now because if you don't, when it finally gets released, you go, oh, cool, now I'm going to order it. And then Amazon or Barnes & Noble's will say, oh, cool, yeah, we'll get it to you as soon as we get it, which is going to be in four weeks.

because of you, actually because of me. I did a bad job of explaining to you how important it was. It's my fault. It's my fault. So right now, what I'm trying to do is explain to you that if you don't order it, you won't get it. And then if you do order it, life will be good. Leadership strategies and tactics, field manual. We got the way the warrior kid books, three, two, and one, all out.

Teach your kids how to stay on the path. We got the Mikey and the dragons, if you want. want your kids to learn the most basic foundational thing that they need to know as a kid how to overcome fear they can learn it right there mikey and the dragons incredible feedback on that book all the time it is not rare that a grown human male or female cries while reading that book you you had an emotional outburst it wasn't it wasn't an outburst but wait your brother jade charles something was it your brother jade charles well Well, same kind of deal.

Emotional outburst? There was an emotional, what do you call it? When the needle moves or, you know, one of those situations, yeah. Well, I think that when you have kids, well, when I say I think, I believe so far that when you have kids, like certain things will affect you differently, you know. So anytime it makes you think of your kids in a certain context or whatever, like, yeah, that's what it sort of induces. So that's what it did. Simply put. Check.

And we got discipline equals freedom. Manual this is the book the get you know the you know the person you're not sure what to get them yeah for Christmas mm-hmm this is the book you get them for new years even better you just go hey here you go I got you this little book yeah you a little reminder of what it's like to be on the path staying on the path so that's discipline equals freedom field manual the audio version of that is actually an mp3 so you got to go to iTunes or Amazon music to get that and of course we have extreme ownership and the Dijkersault

Economy Leadership, the two books that I wrote with my brother, Leif Babin. They are leadership books, how to take the lessons that we learned on the battlefield and apply them to your business and your life. We also have a leadership consulting company. It's called Eschalonfront. Go to echelonfront.com. If your company, your business, your team needs to improve and dominate, they're going to do it through leadership.

That's what we do. So we will help you lead better, which will in turn lead. Victory on all fronts. We have EF Online, which is a leadership training program. I used to be able to tell people, oh, you want some little advanced help with your leadership? Cool, listen to my podcast. Because there's seven of them. It'll take you 14 hours.

Sure. You know, you got 14 hours to spare people. Oh, yeah, I can squeeze that in. Right now, it's like, oh, you want some leadership help? Cool, listen to my podcast. It's 700 hours or whatever. It's not specific enough. Now, there's lessons in all of them.

So, EF online, let's take the lessons, condense them down, distill them down so people can go through them in a timely fashion, eight hours, ten hours of online training where you're actually, the other thing is that the podcast, I know it feels like it might be interactive. You might feel like you're sitting in between me and Echo right now, listening. Maybe you want to chime in and tell Echo like make those excerpts a little bit shorter. you probably are thinking that. Sure. But you can't really interact with us, except for on the interwebs, I guess. But with the EF online,

you're actually putting leadership positions. You've got to make decisions. You've got to figure out what the best call is. If you make a bad call, you're going to hear about it. Things are going to go sideways. If you make a good call, you're going to progress. So EF Online, check that out. EFonline.com.

And then we have the muster dates coming soon. Leadership Training event, Leadership Training Conference. Where are we going next year? I believe locations are Dallas, Phoenix, and Orlando, Florida. Dates to come.

Check Extreme Ownership.com. And then, of course, we have EF. Overwatch and EF Legion. These are platforms to take military personnel with leadership experience that understand the principles that we talk about and place them into the civilian sector, civilian companies,

civilian businesses. Go to EF Overwatch or EF Legion to make that happen. And if you want to communicate with us some more, Joel. Joel is actually new to social media. Joel Struthers. You can find him on Instagram and Facebook,

Joel Struthers, at Joel Struthers. And then his nonprofit is at Legion Engineered. And his website for that is at Legion. is legion engineered.com and then he's got ravenhill risk control.com and of course

the two of us are on the interwebs as well we're on joccopodcast.com so if you want to check out that site and then on Twitter, Instagram and on Le Livre de Vessage which is French

for Book of Face See? No big deal. No, that's good. You want to check that out? Echo is at Equitralse, and I am at Jocco Willink. And thanks once again to Joel Struthers for joining us.

And thanks to him for his service as a contractor for his service in the French foreign liegeer. And to all the legionnaires out there past and present, and especially those that sleep at peace in their tombs. We salute all of you. and to the rest of the men and women around the world in uniform that protect the freedoms we all hold sacred. Thanks to you and to our police, law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics and EMTs talked about y'all today. Dispatchers, corrections officers, Border Patrol Secret Service, all first responders out there. Thank you for the sacrifices you make to serve mankind. to keep us safe and keep us protected.

And to everyone else out there, let's remember the power of the Legionnaires code and the parts of that code that apply to all of us, that discipline is our strength, that courage and loyalty are our virtues, that we have to display dignified but modest behavior. We've got to balance that dichotomy, that we have to take constant care of our,

physical form. That means we have to train rigorously. We have to remember that our mission is sacred. Your mission is sacred. You carry it out until the end and you know you have a mission. You know you do. And whatever that mission is, go out there and get after it. And until next time,

This is Echo and Jocko. Out.