Jocko Podcast - 212: 4 Years Sitting in a Little Room, Across The Table from Jocko Willink. What I Learned. With Echo Charles

Episode Date: January 15, 2020

0:00:00 - Opening 0:04:42 - History, Jiu Jitsu, Extreme Ownership and how it applies EVERYWHERE. 2:16:00 - Final thoughts and take-aways. 2:20:00 - How to stay on THE PATH. 2:47:28 - Closing Gratitude.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 212 with me, Jocco Willink. The path of Jiu-Jitsu is hard. It is a hard path. You have ups and downs. And there are times when you've got to work, and there are times when you get injured, and there are times when you get mentally defeated, and you feel like you don't want to do it anymore.

And those days go on and on. And on. But if you do the right thing and you stay on the path over time, you will move forward on that path. You will move forward on that path if you keep your nose to the grindstone. You move forward on that path. If you have the humility to say, you know what? I still have more to learn. And that's the same way it works with life. You're going to have ups and downs in life. Things are going to go wrong. You're going to lose businesses.

You're going to lose jobs. You're going to break up. Things are going to go wrong. And what you need to do is to keep moving forward. No matter what happens, keep moving forward. And jiu-jitsu is representative of life. if you stay humble and you stay on that path, you will end up achieving your goal that will happen.

And it did happen. It happened to my friend here, Echo Charles, and those are the words that I said in August when he received the black belt. The black belt. He always refer to the black belt as if there's only one in the world, the black belt. He received the black belt in Jiu-Jitsu. And it was not an easy path. And there was much learned along the way, not just about Jiu-Jitsu, but about life. And so I told Echo at that time,

at some point, we would discuss that journey on the podcast. So here we are. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. So we did I did immediately say well probably not immediately but a few hours after you got your black belt and there was a lot we were a lot of people talking You know we're at origin camp we were all talking about everyone getting their black belts you get your black belt what it's like to get your black belt all the things that you had been through And I said you know what we just got to just we'll do we need to do a podcast about this because it's a journey And you know what's interesting too I was thinking about this last guest Joel Struthers when he came in and before we started recording he was he was very humbled to be here you know he's like man it's like I kind of feel I you know

you here we are we're having these guys that were from SOG that were in Vietnam Medal of Honor recipients I mean just really just esteemed guests on the podcast and Joel's kind of like you know he's a humble guy And What I realize is I said well you know I'm thinking I'm still going to learn from you You know looking at Joel

I mean he did some really cool stuff Had a good six years in the French foreign legion Learned some cool lessons I want to learn those lessons too So When I talk to you Like I want to learn what you learned I want to learn from you And that's part of what makes

Makes me try and get better. That's what makes me get better is I'm gonna learn from everyone. You know, you hear someone say, you even learn something from a white belt. Yeah. You know, that's like a saying.

It's actually true. You hear a seal say it. Oh, you can still learn something from a new guy. It's not just a saying. It's true. So with that, also some people have asked, you know, over the years like,

how did you and I meet? So I think that's probably a good place to start because we did meet from Jiu-Jitsu. So how do we meet? Go. Well, met in Jiu-Jitsu. Actually, I remember it probably earlier than you do, but

when you say like how you can learn something from anyone, right? Like how this I think, I mean, you learning something from me or whatever and I'll see it in your face every once in a while when I'll say something. It's almost like you're kind of computing and calculating like my interpretation of a certain

event or incident. versus your interpretation of it. So it's kind of like, oh, it's almost like something's clicking in your eye, like, think, okay, so that's what you saw during this, you know? Totally. So you can almost kind of kind of formulate how you come off a little bit more accurately, you know, how you impress onto like the world. Absolutely.

Getting feedback from someone on how they interpret what you're saying is absolutely important. Yeah, because you could be like, oh, yeah, like I'm, I said that so well, you know, like I was so clear. It was so like it even sounded. it dope the way I said it, you know. And then they're like, yeah, you know, you sounded kind of arrogant when you said, and you're like, dang, you know, like, it's more accurate. A little miss. Yeah.

Had a little one that was off. You know. Overshot the target, undershot the target. If you don't communicate with the target, you don't know. Yes. Yeah. So, all right. So, anyway, yeah.

So we met, when I first met you was, I was a white belt at the boxing club. He was like. I remember this zero. Yeah, no, no, no, I don't remember meeting you at all too. I'm literally thinking of like the look in your eye thinking like you will not remember this at all. But I knew of you. I seen you before over at, uh, remember Kate. So Dean Lister opened a little spot.

It was half of a marshal of a karate gym. So he kind of, I don't know if you saw that was an East Lake. Yes. Yeah. And he had half of it. He put this big curtain. Yeah. It separated like the karate class and our class.

So I was, I went down there. That's where I joined. and I saw you there and I had heard about you from like Dean and some interviews that he did or whatever and then that's when I seen you but I didn't talk to you or nothing like that and it was literally like a weekend

or something and then you know how we would go there to the boxing club which is a different gym, it's more of a gym, a boxing gym with Jiu-Jitsu and M-M-A so we'd go from there to the boxing club there and we'd kind of be training at boat Yeah you were I only trained at the place in East Lake like

probably 10 times because it was a Far away. Yeah. You know, by far away, I mean like 35 minutes or something like that. Which is pretty far. Well, yeah, compared to. Yeah. The boxing club was pretty close.

Yeah. Victory is the closest. But nonetheless, when I first rolled with you was at the boxing club when we were done with the south of the Chula Vista place or East Lake place. And then, yeah, so I rolled with you and you, you know, I'm a white belt at this time. I remember you did this move that you still you'll still try to do this move to me. Interesting. I don't remember it working

anytime recently, but it's where you kind of You've been me down inside, mount side, side control, and then you basically do a forearm across the neck kind of scenario. And if your head is facing a certain way, it's really hard to get out of it. You're right. So you did that to me, I think,

maybe two times or something. It's a real surprise move because no one thinks they can get choked there, but you actually can't get choked there. You can tap out. I tap out people with that move, yes. Yeah, and me as a white belt, I didn't know, or I didn't have that preconceived notion that you can't get tapped. I didn't even have that.

I was brand new. And so you did it. And I was like, oh, cool. And at that point, I was like, I was one of these guys who asked a lot of questions, like a lot of questions. Like, anything I saw for the first time, I'm like, hey, how'd you do that? How'd you do it? So I asked you, but you got that way.

You're still kind of like this where like when you meet someone, like you don't, you don't, how should I say, exchange pleasantries that much. Yeah, that's true. You know, actually I'm more conscious of it now when I meet people, like, let's say, if I meet someone that's sort of like listens to the podcast, obviously like I'm cool to them because there's some kind of connection there. But for sure, never in my life have I been a person where I meet someone and I'm, you know, having some big open conversation with.

That's not really it's weird because because you know kind of what I do for a living now is basically talk And and I not a big talker In if I don't know people yeah, I don't know people if I go to a party like I would go to like let's say some kind of a Whatever party with my wife and just not talk to anybody not not no look I'm not like standing a quarter brooding at people being a jerk but I'm not gonna make a big connection with a lot of people Right. Now if someone's got cauliflower here or something. You might open up a little discord. Yeah, but. Yeah, yeah, fully. Like, you're not the guy who's, you know, in the corner telling all the stories.

Not looking to make friends or whatever. Yeah, fully. And, and back then, you were, you were like that as well. So even like, even like when you make small talk nowadays, if you, if you kind of see someone and you're like, hey, you're whatever, even your small talk is like, and I'm comparing this to knowing you now for however long. you can there's a huge disconnect like a huge and I don't mean in a bad way it's just more like you're you're doing it kind of in this almost like in an official way you know where it's like you're not open kind of thing and maybe me even talking about it makes it seem like a bigger deal than it is but it's there big time so back then oh it was there huge time so you're like over there you're like yeah like this is blank look kind of like yeah man like good you know whatever strong You know, giving, doing the saying the correct stuff, that's cool.

But like a, like a shark with black eyes. There's no fault there. Just black. That's funny because that's exactly how I feel. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I heard too. So that was like, and I had, I kind of just admit Sarge, you know, at that point.

And he was sort of the same way. But it was, you're kind of different level in that regard. And so I was like, hey, how do you? Oh, what did you do there? And you were like, well, it's like, it's just what you saw, you know, side mouth, boom. Put your arm right there and just choke you. There was no big revelation. It was like, all right.

So I'm like, cool, man. Like this. All right. And I didn't get the impression that you like disliked me or nothing, which I probably would have if you were anybody else. But I knew that you were sort of like that. So whatever. Junk was like, apparently, you know, what I thought he was. And that was sort of it.

And I didn't like train with you or nothing like that. Not that I remember anyway. And then so that was probably like 2005, 2006. Check. And then, yeah, I don't know if you were gone, you know, overseas or whatever. I guess you were, right? Yeah, well, I went overseas probably after I met you because I deployed in the summer of 2006. So I left in like April for Ramadi.

Yeah. And then when did you come back? And then I came back. And start training and stuff like that again. October. November. of 2006. Six, yeah.

So when I remit, the first, like, early memory of actually, like, seeing you again after that was, like, well after Purple Belt. So I got ProBelt in 2007, and I was, like, competing and stuff. And then you were there, and I was, like, kind of training with you or whatever. Not that much, but, yeah, I was, compete. I remember you being at the competition. Yeah, yeah. I remember coaching you sometimes.

Yeah, yeah. And then, well, when you were actually coaching me, like, right before I got injured and stuff, like we were training a lot. I was training with you a lot. And then it was funny because you're like the same way. And this actually helped me at first. I was like, fuck, Chaka doesn't care about me that much, you know? But this is what I realized, like, pretty quick.

It's like, it's not that you don't care about me. It's like certain things are not a big deal, which we all think are a big deal. Like, to you, they're just not a big deal. So like that time when I, it was the same tournament as I hurt my arm the first time. And I got go-go-plotid, remember? And here's the thing. When I was competing before that, like I'd never, ever since I went. Okay, so no ghee, it's not by belt.

Back then it was not by belt. It was like, if it was a big tournament, it was a novice, beginner, intermediate advanced. That's how it went. And then if it was a smallest tournament, there's just beginner intermediate advance. So when I started competing in advanced, that's when I was sort of training with you. And at that point, like, I was doing really good. I was training, like, a lot, a lot, and I never lost, never lost,

up until that day, right, that I hurt myself. So, like, a few matches before I hurt myself when he gets in. Sean Roberts, by the way. So you know who Sean Roberts is, right? He's like, he ended up being a famous jiu-timore. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Sean Roberts. That's a lot of it. So he, I go against him.

and he he finishes me with a go go goopla my wife's there my family's there everything you know they kind of expected me to win yeah because it's been a champion echo

champion of the family just got and they can't tell what that was because a gogo plata too is like a I'm not going to say it's a it's a move of humiliation to have done to you but there is a level of

it's a highlight real move on the humiliation scale it's not in the middle. It's leaning towards humiliating. Yeah, yeah. Because there's a lot of things that have to happen and it. Yeah.

Wait, you said a go-go-plotter, right? Go-go-plotter. Yeah. So I would say this, to evaluate a go-go-plata if it's done to you, you are the butt end

of a highlight real. Yes, you are. Like pretty much under all circumstances, you know, once a while. And meanwhile, Sean Roberts is a thinner, like, more thin guy.

So when we, when we face off, it's like, oh, this guy's going to, get smashed and Sean, oh man, yeah, and he totally got me with it, like probably textbook. Like, it was at no point in that match that I was like, getting him or nothing. He ran through me and tapped me out, right?

And then so I'm like, devastated, never lost in advance competition. I'm like, devastated. You know, my family's there or whatever. My wife's like, well, we weren't married at the time, but she's like, oh, like, oh, man, are you like, okay, like worried about how I'd handle it. But so I'm like, whatever. Like, I wasn't that, like, broken up about it, but it was something. It was like a little shock.

and then you're like across the arena or whatever later and you text me you goes oh you got caught with the go-go that's got a sting I was like my coach my coach telling me this you know not like hey hey shake it off you know like get back in there nothing like that but strangely it that made me feel so much better when you did it like when you said that you know Because I was like, man, it's not a big deal, man. There's not a bit, you know, like we're in this arena. You know, it's like we're in a jihad. Everyone's competing.

And it's like, you know, it's so not a big deal at the end of the day. But it feels like a huge deal, you know? So when I got that text, I was like, and meanwhile, I see you across the thing, like on your phone or whatever. I was like, oh, this guy. But I'm like, whatever. So, yeah, that was kind of like how the whole deal was. I ended up getting hurt my first bicep. Yeah, or whatever.

And so I was out for a little bit. But yeah, when I came back, we'd train some more too. But before you tour your bicep, because there was a time period where we were training hard all time. That was this time period, right? Yes. Yeah. Like I always need an alternate training partner for Dean because Dean's traveling or Dean's hurt or whatever has always have someone else. There's some up and comer that's hungry that doesn't mind training hard and wants to train a lot.

Yeah. So, you know, you and then Andy after. Andy's who it is right now. Yeah, Andy was way after, though. Oh, yeah, yeah, Andy is way after. But I'm just saying, like, at that time, you were training with me. Like, I remember we would go to other mats. We would train, you know, other mats in our gym, be like, oh, they're over there.

Let's get. There's more room. We'll go over here. Yeah. I remember actually when victory first, it was called Throwdown Elite. And we went, it wasn't even done yet. Yeah, oh, yeah. Everyone was training, and we were like, hey, let's go downstairs.

Like, no one had ever touched these mats before. And we rolled it whatever, and the mats were still, like, weird. slippery because they still had the little, you know, layer of whatever, the new juice on them or something. Yeah. And, you know,

whatever. And, but I remember that's when you were like, you know what a good, I forget your exact words, but it was something like this. You know what feeling is really, really good to have your own gym to train at whenever you want?

I was like, oh, yeah. I remember that specifically. But yes, yeah, that was when I was competing in, yeah, training as much as possible so then you hurt your arm whatever now what at what

point did you start because at this point you were a bouncer whatever at what point did you start making videos because it was pretty early on you that you decided that you were gonna become a videographer video maker yeah yeah so we I stopped being a bouncer and I started getting to web with my brother from scratch. I didn't know anything. So it's, you know,

it's kind of like multimedia, you know, web development, graphic design, that kind of stuff. I always was sort of into that in one way and others growing up since a little kid

where me and Jade, my brother, were kind of standouts in that regard, like drawing. And in fact, I remember one time Jade, he was in,

in sixth grade, we did, you know how they used to have poster contests? Yeah. I'm sure they still have it in some time. Yeah, I'm sure they do.

But you basically, they give you a theme and then, you draw in color a big poster that follows that theme. And Jade ended up winning it a national. Like it goes in by love. So you win. And then it's like, yeah, apparently it was about drunk driving, mad mothers against

drunk driving. Yep. So, you know, you win the school. It was actually kind of dope. It was a car for the time. This is like, you know, literally sixth grade. A car crashing into a big camp. of beer that was it cool but the way he did it was good and he's you know we're

real good at drawing to at that time so he wins the school he wins the island of Kauai that and then it wins like the state you know then all the winners of the state go to the national which one and he freaking wins it thousand dollars six great yeah there's a lot of money oh yeah a trip to like New York and like all this stuff so it's kind of a big deal just for drawing so anyway the point is like we do we we we were always into artistic taking drawing stuff. So web design and graphic design was kind of like, okay, that was good. And then kind of through that, I don't know. So you know the idea, you watch a movie, right,

or a movie's going to come out, and you watch the trailer. And you're like, dang, the trailer, look, I can't wait to watch that movie. Then you watch the movie and you're like, okay, cool, good movie, but man, the trailer was like way better, you know, got me way more fired up than like the movie, the movie kind of was a let down kind of. So that whole idea, that whole phenomenon, I really was interested in where like who made that trailer where he got the movie and chopped it up and got the cool parts and told almost like a little alternate story you know like and not necessarily alternate but just remember what was there a specific trailer that kind of what was it a bunch of them so one of the ones that I always watch was Terminator salvation and it has I think whenever you say a movie and then you give me this look of you're waiting for me to give you the nod of like oh yeah I know that and I'm just giving you a straight blank shirt or because I'm just giving you a straight blank shirt or I've seen Terminator 1 and 2. And I don't know what comes after that, but apparently salvation is one of them.

Yeah, yeah, one of them. So Terminator 1, which, okay. So Terminator 1, Terminator 2 are the best by far. Like, pretty much factually the best one. Pretty much. Like, it's not very much out for DB. But that's back in the day before trailers really kind of hit their stride

as far as movie trailers go. So there's Terminator 3, which is a complete flop. By the way, side note. So anyway, Terminator of Force, Terminator Salvation. Christian Bail was in now. Anyway, the trailer was like really well done, in my opinion. And it had, I forget the group.

I'm just drawing a blank, but I think it might have been like nine-inch nails or something like that. Okay. Where they have the song called The Day the Whole World went away. Because the day the whole world ran. You don't need to sing it for us, but we'll take your word for it. Anyway, they use that song in the trailer. And then the way they did it, I was like, man, this.

This is like, I want to live my life like this trailer feels or whatever as far as like, you know, the videos I want to make. So there was that. There was like Clash of the Titans. That was a good one I thought. Yeah, there's a bunch. Okay. So then you decided you're going to start making trailers. What was the first video that you got paid to make?

That I got paid to make. Yes. Was with you, bro? And what was it? Is the first, was it throwdown or was we victory? Nope. Not even that. It was before that.

What was it? So the first video I made ever was like on a cruise. Like, you know, now you can see them anywhere. Like you, you know, you basically take your camera and you do the, you just chop it up, put it with music. But the first video that I made for money was with you for like some teachers association. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I made like a thing about the laws of combat.

You filmed me. I sat there and talked about it. And then they instituted inside their organization for 18 months or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the one that the sound was off. It's so funny. So the reason that's funny, obviously, to use that. So just let me fill in the listeners.

Please. This is like probably a one hour video. Maybe, maybe, I don't know, 45 minute video. Yeah. Yeah. It's a 45 minute video. I'm talking. I'm explaining the laws of combat.

I'm talking about extreme ownership. I'm going through these things to this screen. And the audio is off by a half a second. So it looks like a weird old Chinese martial arts film with a voice dub over. And so I say to echo, you know, I'm like, hey, it seems like, you know, it seems like my voice doesn't match my mouth. And I'm saying it sort of as a question, but like the first two Terminators being the factually, this was a factual situation. There was no debating. I was watching my lips move with no words coming out.

And I'm like, this is not good. And you pushed back on me actually. That's what's really funny as that actually made me suspect of your whole existence Your whole because you were like you were trying to explain to me that that was Somehow like you were first of all you tell me like no no not really I'm like watch the lips move see how there's no words coming out Wait was that the time they where you came over and we were watching it or were you texting me I think if you came I started off texting you like hey can you think these things and your responses were like well it's not it's not really that off and I'm like what are you talking about and so I probably came to your house with a pistol and And was like, okay, we're going to fix this. But you had a serious, there was a problem.

So this is what happened. How did you think that was okay? Okay, this is, okay. So there's three little elements to this whole equation that'll make it make sense. Okay. So, okay. So first off, I wasn't necessarily acting like this. And I'm not saying I was trying to give the impression that I knew exactly what I was doing.

Because come on, let's face it. This is literally my first video that I've ever made that anyone's actually. depending on me, right? So I'm like, all right. So yeah, I sync up the audio or whatever. And I don't know how to sync up audio. I have no idea. So I'm just swinging it.

So I sync up the audio, what I thought was like synced up. Yeah. And so I'm going through it. A half a second to two. So editing it and just like I said, but I'm used to the video, the one or two videos that I've ever made was like two minutes long. So editing a two minute video is like, okay, click, click. click you edit yet it but man 45 minutes of editing your brain and just a

kind of off sync by a lot and your brain will kind of connect the dots it's weird like you ever watch a no I get it I get yeah so my brain essentially connected it and was interpreting it as sunk up good so you're over here saying hey it's off sync look at this and I'm like looking at I'm looking at it and then I'm doing all these weird mental experiments like to be like okay let me pause it right when he said and it's all checking out in my brain. I get it.

And that's when I was like, no, you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong. So finally you were like, bro, I'm like, I'm coming over and we're going to get to the bottom of this. So I'm like, yeah, come, whatever. So you come and we're doing it. And you're like, me and you're just seeing two different things at this point because my brain is all whacked, all jammed up. Because I remember like we were, I was trying to meet a deadline too. That's the thing. So I was staying up like super late, not getting much sleep.

So you come over. We're looking at it. We're seeing two different things until this one. little part where you're like you clap. Oh, I clap. You did this, yes. And then it was like, oh my gosh. So it's real clear when you clap and then the sound comes later and you were like, yeah,

look at that. And I'm like, it all like came crashing down like, man, I'm completely wrong. But that was good because I could be like, okay, now I'm going to sink the whole 45 minutes off of this one thing. You see what I'm saying? So that's what happened there. Okay. So that was your first video near failure.

But here's the thing about that first video too. That was like the beginning of echelon front essentially. Yeah, that was. Because when you think, okay, so I revisited that video like last year. Just going through. What year was that? Do you happen to remember? Yeah, 2010.

Yeah. Yeah. So, echelon front wasn't officially formed yet. I think that was like right after you retired. Yeah. Yeah. Man, I looked at it so a year ago, I bring up the video looking over hard drives or whatever. I bring it up on, let me check this out.

You're all young. So funny. It's like you're all young looking and you're saying all echelon front stuff. But super like early beginnings of it. It's like oh man it's really interesting to watch now that like I know like all the content or whatever It's funny, but yeah, that's what it was Eschalon front 1.0 Yes, that is it right there

And the second video was with you as well that was the victory the throwdown Was it victory? Yeah, it was victory at that time Yeah, it was victory. Yeah, you know and which video was it? The outtakes from some of those videos are awesome. Yeah, those those later on it was just like there's one where Dean Nester's like monkeys, giraffes, gorillas. Yeah, that was the outtake line. But that, I think that, those, the victory ones, that's how, like, people started to know around, like,

here and around San Diego that I did video. Because I did a series of them, and that just kind of were, like, I just tried to make them, like, kind of, like, movie trailer, kind of dramatic. And no one at that time was doing anything like that as far as, like, making videos for companies or whatever. And so you look at them now, and they're, like,

they're pretty cheesy now. But back then it's kind of like, oh, dang, you know. Yeah, no, those were like, those were really good videos for that time period. Yeah. And I'd sort of put my name on them. Not sort of. I straight up put my name on them. You know, when I'd upload them, whatever.

And that's how people are like, oh, you're Echo Charles. You're the one that does those videos. Like that, you know, I guess my name's kind of distinct or whatever. So that's how I kind of gained, like people started knowing. Some fame. No, no, not fame. But people started knowing I made video. Recognition.

Yeah. As far as video goes. Okay. So now there's a chunk of time now we're talking because we didn't start this podcast until 2015. And these are easy dates for me to remember because extreme ownership came out in October of 2015, but I was on Tim Ferriss podcast. That came out like September 25th, 2015.

And then I was on Rogan like December 8th or something. something 2015 and then we started this two weeks later this this podcast I remember I was like let's get it out before Christmas yeah and we did we got out like 22nd of December or something like that so there's five years between okay you made the first echelon front 1.0 video between that time period and 2015 what were you doing okay so you were making other videos you had some bit you actually had some pretty big pretty big videos right you did well let's just start with the Hennach show right not to show yeah so the Hennat show yeah so you well before like after the victory that was started this cascade of like

other people wanting me to do videos those were good videos so which was perfect because I kind of got thrown into the mix like and had to like you had to learn yeah like hard like fast there's no better way to learn than getting thrown in well there are better ways but Yeah, but it was a way as a way you're going to have to learn. Yeah. You get a sink or swim and you started swimming. Crawlstroke. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Breaststroke. Side stroke. Yeah. And like mistakes you make like you really learn the lesson because it's not like, oh, I made the mistake in my freaking. What was your next, after the, what was the next like big break after victory? Um, I, a big one.

I worked for a guy, Blake Malin. And that was like, as far as content goes, he was like, okay, it was kind of, you know, corporate and stuff like that. compared to the stuff I do now. When you would make early, which is what I noticed, when you make, when those early videos that I was in, when I watch them,

I'm like, this is the same thing we're doing right now almost. Oh, yeah. Like the same, especially you see the, well, like you said, like the things I'm saying then, it was like, oh yeah. If we would have known then,

we just said, okay, let's just start making more videos right now. And really, when you think about the whole thing as a big picture, it's, that's literally what happened. So like when you,

like when we're making the victory videos, right? There's so many outtakes, like, and most of them are me and you, because you're messing with me the way you always mess with me. Like, you're like, there's this one where you're like, because, okay, and you, you're kind of smart you. Like you, and I don't mean smart like smart. You're, uh, observant. You're more observant than the normal person. So I'm new to video.

And I figured out really early when I do shoots with people, I just press record. Because a lot of the good stuff you can get with people is one they don't know you're recording. Right. When I'm talking, them directing them, they're doing something else. They say something. They're trying to at least loosen up and they're doing whatever. And there's a lot of good stuff come from there, right? And you picked up on that pretty quick.

And you're like, you're recording, aren't you? And I'm like, I saw you pressed a button. Oh, man. But the way you said, it was like, wow, that's literally the same stuff you do now. You know what else is funny? You got that one video of our old CrossFit instructor. Yeah. And he's saying, he's saying, I'm going to try and summon my inner jaco.

Which is weird because how did he, had he even seen me before? Where did that come from? Hey man, everybody knew, man. That was random. Yeah, that was random. But yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I did some of that.

Then, yeah, working with Blake. Because it's like an ongoing thing, which that's what I really liked about, like, doing video or the type of videos I like to do is like ongoing ones. Stuff where I could like think of like cool little themes for the next one, you know, kind of thing. So I did that for a while. And then I tried to and then I want to make like movies and stuff like I think like anyone who does video You did you did some martial arts some grappling stuff too those were some pretty good videos and you're actually traveling to do those videos Which ones like metamorphous? Oh yeah, yeah yeah You did some good you did some really cool Meta Morris videos they were kind of

Pre-fight right yeah like kind of like a countdown Countdown type videos 30 for 30 or whatever Yeah kind of like little mini documentaries like about the person in the fight coming up yeah yeah and that actually doing those a lot that's how I met a lot of the big jiu jih T players and how even more how that spread like through the jiu jitsu community outside of san die like okay that guy makes like videos or whatever so I did that and at the same time I met Rassan who is henato la ranga I met him and I was like brother this guy needs like a show so we made a show with him and we're doing episodes I think

six six altogether those are hilarious oh yeah those are epic yeah and those are on flex point TV well they're on YouTube

yeah but I where on YouTube just just go ahead not to learn on the show or yeah flixpoint dot TV they're on there yeah yeah you're right

but we had that's a hard one that was hard to make given where I was in my career we'll say because it's like okay

I can do if I was just doing that full time which I kind of was at a little pocket I was just doing that full time, you could do it. But consider what you got to do as just, you know, I don't have this huge production studio with people like arranging everything. So we got to basically arrange my schedule

because I still got to work and stuff. Like I was, me and Jade were putting money into it. We were spending money to produce this show. So there's that. And then there's, I've got to work, right? I have other stuff to do. So I got to schedule with myself. And we filmed in L.A.,

which is two hours away. Um, where'd you, what space did you use? It's called the Dream Factory LA. Some place that you were paying to use their space. Yeah, you rent out the studio. Yeah, it's a little set there. It was pretty dope though. It was really cool.

Um, and then so my schedule, the Dream Factory schedule, which that one wasn't too bad because, you know, you can schedule it in advance or whatever, but Hanato schedule. And then the select, because the guests are celebrity types, Bass Routin, Frank Shamrock, like, Hanner, like all these. So you got to schedule with them as well. Like Kenny Florian was the first one. That was really fun show. But it was really hard to get together and put on.

So when I had a career and then towards the end of us filming that, my career started to go up and up even more. So it's like, man, I can't do it. I just couldn't do it. We couldn't do it. So, yeah, so it stopped. But that's a funny one. Everyone's all, like, watch them again, and it's freaking, it's funny.

Yeah. No, he's a hilarious guy. It's a good show, great show. And then Meanwhile, you and I are still training hard I mean, we're training hard this whole time You were one of my primary training partners This entire time

Yeah And then At, like I just kind of told part of the story But I go on Tim Ferriss's podcast And he tells me to start a podcast And you reminded me of this We actually had talked about it a little bit Wait, were you trying to

to convince me to do one? Yep. So you told me that we should do a podcast that you could figure it out or whatever. Yeah. And then I was on Rogan. And that's why at the end of the first time I was on Rogan's show, I said,

Echo, get it, you know, get ready. Because in the middle of Rogan show, he says, hey, you should have a podcast, which, come to find out, Joe Rogan tells everybody that. Everyone who should have one. Oh, yeah. And, but I listened, thankfully.

And it was, you know, both hearing it from 10, and Joe was was was a convincing and I mean I would have done it just off of Tim but the book it was like I was on Tim then the book came out then I was doing that thing and just barely got done doing kind of the the book promotions in New York City when I came home and that's when Rogan so it all happened pretty quick but yeah having both those guys say it so then but I do remember this conversation for sure I came back from Rogan and I said hey we're going to do a podcast.

Are you good? You know, can you make it? Can you make it? And you said, I'll tell you tomorrow. Because I remember you specifically said, I'll tell you tomorrow. You didn't have an answer for me right then. The next day, you come in a train. I come in a train.

And you said, hey, I know I can do the podcast. I figured it all out. I know what I got to do. And then you said, let me be on it too. And I said, what are you going to do? and you said, I'll be normal and you be you. And I thought that was a pretty good idea. And plus, more important, I didn't want to sit and talk to myself.

I'd rather talk to you. And because you and I would talk on the mat anyways. And oftentimes we're talking about subjects that we would, that we're interested in. So why not be able to sit there and talk to someone? and you're a super humble guy. I was like, yeah, I could, you know, we hang out all the time. So if there's one person that I can see that can sit there and listen and not feel like, hey, I got to throw my two cents in on every.

It's like, okay, cool. Like, let's do this. So that's how we ended up doing this. Yeah. Yeah. And the timeline a little bit. Okay. So you, and just from my perspective, how I remember it very, very.

clearly too by the way when you were on Tim Ferriss like okay so most of us you listen to me on Tim Ferriss yeah oh yeah right when it came out that was good even and I knew you for a long time but that was a really good one that was a really good that was a great podcast Tim was think about Tim Tim Tim I I mean you think about the caliber of people that Tim Ferriss has on this podcast and it was my buddy Kirk Parsley who introduced me to Peter Attia with the purpose like Kirk was trying to try to hook me up and And Peter, when I talk to Peter, who I'm now good friends with Peter too, but it was the same thing. Like they're trying to decipher if I would be a person that would be interesting to listen to.

So, awesome. You know, like I said, Kurt hooked me up with Peter. Peter called Tim and said, you should have this guy on your podcast. And that was the first interview I ever did in my life. Yeah. Sitting in Tim Ferriss's house in the San Francisco Bay Area, which he doesn't own anymore, because he moved to Austin, Texas. But just that, like I went up there on a, I flew up there.

That was a good call because he said, we can do it over remote. And I said, no, I'll come up. Yeah. You know, because I, I wanted communicating over the phone and there's gaps and there's pauses. You can't see the person. So thankfully I went up there and, you know, met with him. Actually stayed the night. It was awesome, man.

Tim's just was super cool. And then, so that podcast happened. So you listened to that one? Oh, yeah. That's interesting that you sort of figured that communication thing because that's a huge deal. Like if you can go, if you have the option to go in person or over Skype, of course you can choose in person.

That kind of seems obvious. But I feel like people don't understand how much of a difference that that makes. Like it's night and day. It's a night and day situation. I was working for the admiral. in charge of all the seals. And there was a meeting happening in D.C., like at the Pentagon.

And the admiral had a small decision was being made, and he had an opinion on it, and someone else had another opinion on it. And he talked to the guy that was making the decision. It was like, hey, you know, do you want me to come out here for this meeting? And the guy's like, well, you don't have to. And the admiral's like,

Okay, cool. Because for the Admiral and I, that meant us getting on a, you know, on a flight, flying six hours. Not like we have a jet. Like we're going to get on a commercial flight.

We're going to stay the night in some random hotel, blah, blah, blah, blah. So he goes, okay, well, you understand my perspective boss.

Sounds good. If you don't need me out there, I won't come. So we did a, it was a video teleconference. And I'm sitting in there and the decision goes the other way. And the Admiral goes,

as soon as we got off, he looked at me and he said, I should have gone to that meeting. Yeah. And I was like, Roger that boss. Yeah, make sense. You, you, face to face is a big deal. Yeah.

Especially if there's no relationship established. Yeah. If you don't have a relationship with someone, you need to go build it. You need to build it as much as you possibly can face to face. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a lot of, I mean, there's a lot of over-obvious stuff, you know, to figure that. When you figure that, it's like, okay, for these obvious reasons or whatever,

but the not-so-obvious reasons are just the little teeny tiny, almost sub-gris. conscious subtleties of being there with someone. Even like split seconds in a conversation can like can make a difference between like if it's like cohesive or feels cohesive. For sure. And that's not and that's of course from person to person but from people listening as well. So like that that's why like I think that was a good, good move for you to just make that, make that sacrifice and go up there and be there with them.

Yeah. No, it was awesome. And Tim was pretty in the groove at that time. Like he knew how to do it. And he and also the format of his podcast was like you knew kind of what I kind of knew what he was going to ask about and And and yet you could veer off and talk about other subjects so it was like a really Nice way to kick things off and now that I've done a bunch of television interviews Podcasts are just infinitely more comfortable for me. So some people they don't want to get trapped in

some long-term conversation and have to remember what they just said and formulate thoughts fresh on them on the spot on the moment whereas because the TV people that are doing TV interviews they're not formulating thoughts at that moment they go into that with a preconceived statement they got four sentences that they're going to say and that's what they're going to say it doesn't really matter what they get asked so some people would prefer to do that some people would prefer to do a long time I don't mind doing either but it's infinitely more fun yeah and thought-provoking and intellectually stimulating to actually go have a legitimate conversation with and with with Tim which was which was awesome so that was a very cool way for me to kick things off

very lucky yeah and and me I was just like probably millions of people who like knew about Joe Rogan listen to Joe Rogan's podcast which that's kind of like the standard you know that that top standard of podcast. But here's the thing about it. It's like since it's so conversational where he's like just talking in the early days of Joe Rogan podcast, he would just talk to like Red Band and like his friends and they're just talking about stuff, you know? Now it's like there's a lot more to it for sure.

But back then it was like, oh, these are just guys cruising down in their basement or some cool room that they're just basically what we all sort of do anyway and talk shit with each other with friends. And so I think me like millions of. of other people were like, man, that'd be so cool to be able to do that, do a podcast like that, you know, just talking with my friends or whatever. And then so being in Jiu-Jitsu, I think that a lot of people are in this same boat where they know the guy who like, when he's kind of talking, everyone sort of just listens and

likes to chime in and whatever, right? So like with us in Jiu-Jitsu is like you and even Dean when he'd talk about Jiu-Jitsu or stories or whatever, like there's a lot of cool conversations that go on on the mat mat afterward before J-Jitsu, whatever. And those things would always go on. Those are the things were going on way before Tim Ferriss interview, right? So before the whole podcast idea, we already had, I think I was like a lot of people, we already had kind of, for lack of better way of putting it, like dreams of doing some cool

podcasts. Like everyone had that thought, not that we were ever going to pursue it or nothing like that, but the thought, like, wouldn't that be so cool if we could have a podcast like Joe Rogan does? And have it be like a good, you know, a successful one, a lot of people. And even nowadays, people even on, like, all the time saying, like, oh, yeah, like, I want to start my own podcast. I want to start my own podcast, right? Because it's like, when you listen to two people talking, it's like, man, that's your job, man, that's the coolest thing in the world. So I already had that in my brain.

So when you went on Tim Ferriss, I was like, man, when he was like, hey, you should do a podcast. I was like, hell yeah, you should do it. To me, that was like, we should do a podcast when he said that. So that's actually, it was, I'm pretty sure it was before Joe Rogan. I was like, hey, we should do a podcast. And you were like, yeah, you were like, we, like, why would you be on? Like, it doesn't, I said, you should have me on it. And you were like, why?

And it wasn't like, it'd be pretty easy for me to be like, dang, bro, like, freaking why you got to say it like that? Why would you ever be on it? But I didn't take it like that. I don't feel like you're saying it like that. You're just sort of trying to figure it out. Like, why would you be on it? Yeah.

That didn't make sense to me. Yeah. And I had it in my brain, just like I said, where, bro, I'll just be the person you're talking to. I'll just be normal. I'll be a normal person, you know? And if I have questions, I ask questions, but that's not what I'm here for. I'm here to just you be talking to somebody rather than talking to the microphone or talking to the screen by yourself or whatever, which, you know, that's fine too. But it's just, and so I was essentially like thinking of Joe Rogan's podcast where he's like talking to somebody the whole time.

Someone's there listening and chiming in whenever. That's my, that was my little engineered perceived or conceived thing. Yeah. You know, what I was thinking about it. I've told you this before when it comes to have. multiple people on the same podcast like on our podcast we don't haven't had many episodes where we've had more than one person to interview yeah one of the reasons is like I already talked about and we already talked about if there's a bunch of

people talking I won't talk yeah and so what I was thinking myself well when I'm getting interviewed by Tim Ferriss he's asking me questions okay I answer them because I'm being you know I'm being asked a question so I'm gonna answer it Joe Rogan's asking me questions I'm gonna answer them but if you put me into a situation where there's multiple people and they want to talk I'll just let them talk I'll listen So in my mind I was like thinking well if I have someone else on there then I'll just sit there and listen to them talk And well if people if Tim Ferriss is telling me to have a podcast he's not telling me to have a podcast So I can sit there and listen to someone else I should be talking okay got it

So for me I had to get over the the idea of like oh well and then I thought you like I said earlier you're not a person that, you know, when we're having a normal conversation, you're not one of these people that's like, hold on, wait, listen to my viewpoint. You're a person that goes, oh, that's cool, interesting. You're, you will listen as much as I will. And so that's why I thought, okay, cool. Yeah, make sense. Good call, Echo Charles.

Yeah, fully. And keep in mind, too, yes, it was like a partially my selfish reason. It's like, I wanted to be on a podcast for sure. But not at any moment was I being like, hey, so I can be a star too. It was, but I didn't have that at all. Like, I knew what I was getting into it. I knew why I could do it. Not because I have all these cool things to say, because I don't.

Like, in my mind, like, that's not what I'm thinking, especially compared to you. I just listened to Tim for that interview with Tim Ferrith. I'm like, bro, I literally could never bring anything like this to the table. But if you're over here talking about, like, stuff, stuff, and I have just little detailed questions about that just to clarify what you're saying or whatever. Like, I think that I could facilitate in that way. And not to mention just technically, I could make the whole thing happen. And I have my own little creative ideas as well with that.

So I'm figuring, yeah, that's it. But yeah, it never even entered my mind that like it's my podcast. I'm going to talk, you know, if you're going to sort of listen to me sometimes. So you did have a vision for the podcast. A loose one. Because the podcast number one, I had a vision too. My vision was basically what the podcast is right now. That's what I had the vision of.

Hey, we're going to execute this thing. Like a military operation, boom. And the first podcast starts off with your vision, which is, you know, we're kind of talking and then we kind of drift into the beginning of the podcast and then we kind of drift. And actually, you know, as you know, me and my kind of leadership principles at this time, I wasn't 100% sure that I was right. I just thought to myself, this is what it'll be. And then you had a different idea.

And we didn't really talk about it until it. next podcast and then I came in and was like because I listened to it and I was like yeah that's not we shouldn't do it that way in my mind I was like well I don't think we should do it that way I think this thing should start and one thing that I wanted it to do was like start right like when you press play yeah when you press I wanted people when they put their headphones on and press play they were like okay here it comes and that means no intro music that means no advertisements rolling in it's like hey this is Jocco podcast number four, here we go, rock and roll.

And so that's what we started doing on podcast number two. Yeah. What's funny is like that, so there's two kind of thoughts. And I didn't think it out fully, but I just sort of felt like, you know, it was like a creative feeling, I guess. Maybe that drove that decision to make, to be like, oh, yeah, just sort of roll into it casually. Because, you know, like certain movies, like movies start in all kind of different ways, right?

Some movies start just the way how you were saying, like, you want to start, like, it begins. And then some movies just sort of start. Unfold. Yeah, they don't know credits, no nothing. But it just sort of like, people are just sort of doing something. And you're like, wait, what are they doing? Okay, let me see. You know, boom, man, it sort of slowly develops into this thing.

Then it maybe hits you with something and boom, blah, boom. So I remember, like, I vaguely remember editing it and being like, when should I start? Because we're talking a bunch before that, too. And then so when should I just roll into this? And then it was like. me talking actually it was like what is that pomegranate

pomegranate chai tea because you're drinking the white tea and you're like white tea yeah and then man I remember thinking that it was like yeah that one's cool but then yeah you shut it down real quick you're like that is whack but you I think

even thinking back on it the way you and given what you wound up talking about and stuff like that yours is way better like way better yeah and I just

did a bad job of out of the gate kind of explaining, hey, we didn't talk about it. Yeah, we didn't talk about it. But what's interesting too is, I think it was Brandon Pickworth. Yeah. Yeah, so he was talking, it was a while ago. He was like saying that out of the gate with this podcast, it's, you know when you hear people,

you go, oh, listen to Joe Rogan's first podcast or listen to Tim, even Tim Ferriss will say, listen to my first podcast, I don't know what I was doing, it's mono, it's this, it's that. And it takes a while for people to kind of figure out where they're going. I mean, it might take 20, 30, 100 episodes or whatever, at least 30, 40, 50 of people trying, where they kind of find their groove. And Brandon was like, out of the gate, your podcast hasn't even changed that much.

I mean, it's, we did make, you know, I mean, I think we've improved. We've improved our audio. We'd probably speak better now. But it wasn't like, it's not this drastic turnaround from, we were doing something radically different. The podcast is essentially the same now as it was. on episode one. It's essentially the same thing. And so I think that did,

that is based on what I thought the podcast was going to be like. And I should have done a better job of saying, hey, here's what we're doing. Yeah. But I didn't, you know, I didn't. If you remember, if you, and even think about it right now, you, we don't like, especially like creative stuff, like you don't, we don't really talk about you're just like,

you just do it. And then if I, if I go off the rails in one way or another, then you'll tighten me back up whatever but yeah we never did like it was like you said like one thing like hey we should do it in black and went actually did you even say that yes yes yeah yeah and that was sort of it and then we talked about like the inter like the ideal look would be like an interrogation room i mean i use the term interrogation room but just like super simple whatever but yeah other than that we're just you just sort of like let me do whatever with varying levels of success i guess and uh so then that that that can

came out of the gate was we got really lucky I mean at the time there wasn't a lot of pod there was there was a lot of podcasts but there wasn't even close to the number of podcasts that there are now and that went that went forward pretty quick and next thing you know we were like on it was it was happening yeah I mean it was happening meaning meaning this idea of of hey this is this will be cool to try they went from This will be cool to try to like we this is what we're doing. It went to that in two or three episodes. Yeah.

I mean, maybe it was even one episode. I mean, the first episode came out and it was like, okay, everyone said more. And had we, did we know? Yeah, we did know we were going to. I told you we were going to do one a week. I think, I think that was from the beginning. It was like, hey, we're going to do one a week. And there was a time when I wavered for a little while, probably 40 episodes in or something.

I was like, I don't know if I can keep, I don't know if I can prove. I don't know if I can get this much content read. I don't know if I can do this. So we might have to go to one every two weeks. And I got shut down by the people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The people shut me down. Yeah, I forget when that was.

But yes, I remember that happening. I told a couple people that Eschelon Front was working with. One guy named Mike, great guy. I was going to a job site with him. And I just, we were driving. And I said, yeah, you know, I'm thinking about going to like maybe put in the podcast once every two weeks and it was yeah it was like I told him that you know there was a disease you know it was like really bad and and he that seeing his reaction there was one

other person I told the same thing and got the same exact reaction which was like they were almost he was almost like lost for words you know because this was early so there was still it wasn't like you could go oh well just listen to one that I haven't listened to or one I haven't heard in a while this was hey there was only there's only only this many episodes and I'm waiting for the next one. Yeah. You know, I remember him being, you, you know, you, you, you should think about that. And I remember what he said, he said, uh, he said, cause there's people that are

waiting for these to come out. Yeah. And I said to myself, ooh. Yeah. I got to, I gotta get, I gotta work harder. Yeah. And I could, and I. Be more disciplined.

Yeah. Just work harder, dude. Um, it makes sense too because of how like, you know, you were pretty act like, like engaged with the people too. And I, and I was. to like where people would be like hey that was this and that was why and you'd be engaged like online on Twitter and stuff like that so it kind of like it really felt like in a lot of ways it still does feel like we were sort of all in this together like everyone like me and you doing it and then

everyone whoever was listening like they were kind of in it too you know so still feels like that yeah fully and what's crazy is you go to Australia where we just were and it's the same way we're literally the other side of the world and people are asking me about hey we're When you said this in episode 48, did you think? And I'm like, yes, I did think that. I could tell, you know, people are that into it. Yeah. Which is awesome.

But back in the day when it's when you first sort of start, that feeling is so on the front of your mind. Like it feels like we're just all doing it. People are giving me input because I'm trying to, look, I mean, I don't know about you, but I was trying to figure out a lot of stuff early on as well, like how to get certain things done or accomplish or whatever. And people were, you know, jumping out of the woodwork kind of like, hey, you should do this better. You know, you should compress the audio. You should do it. So I'm taking advice.

You know, so we're all sort of in it together. And there was one episode. I forget what episode it was when it sort of hit a point where there was so many downloads that it crashed our website and the podcast like the hosting. Right. And it, um, because, you know, when you start, I don't know about that. I don't know about that kind of stuff. Like where after a certain amount. It seemed crazy too to think that.

Yeah. It seemed crazy to think that we would have enough downloads that it would crash the. system yeah yeah so and so of course I mean whether that whether or not that came across my mind you know maybe maybe not but it wasn't like a worry I wasn't concerned about that at all I was like no this is a it's a computer like whatever so you know you have this host for this and the website and that um and the the moment that I was like okay there's a lot of people like depending on this for lack of better way of putting it is when it crashed on the day that I you release the podcast, it crashes.

It says like, you know, whatever. It says technically I got to do all this stuff. And just Twitter, Facebook, like emails, like through the website, my personal email, like, coming in, like, where's the podcast? And it was probably way less of a deal than it seemed like to me at the time. But still, when you get like, essentially, let's face it, strangers, people I don't know, like just by the hundreds, just saying, where's the podcast? Where's the podcast?

It's kind of like them saying, hey, where's our dinner? You know, like, where is our podcast? And I'm like, oh, my gosh. I'm, like, freaking, you know, worried then at the end of that. I'm, like, worried about you. Like, oh, man, if I'm feeling this and I'm not even the star of the podcast, what the hell is Jacquesville thinking? And he's going to kill me and all this stuff and regret even doing this with me.

You should have did it with some professional guy out and all this stuff. And then every once in a while, you'd text me, hey, so how's it going? So to me, the way that, the way I interpreted that, how is it going is like, what the hell? Like, do freaky the, but then you'd call. every once in a while. Because this was a matter of days. Like days are going on.

Still, no love. This is when the podcast crashed. And I would text you like, Hey. Yeah, like, how's it coming?

Yeah. Are we making any progress? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember I was on an op. I was in Iraq. I was on my first deployment. And we were traveling a far distance

to the south of Iraq. There was some mayhem going on. We're traveling through this city. There's eerie. There's people whistling. It's just, it's the, middle of the night and we get lost and we're driving around and I'm I'm tracking and so

finally we stop and I go up to the lead nav who's a great guy in the lead vehicle and I look at him and I and I could see the look in his eyes like we're lost just know where we are and I go I go how's it going bro and and like just that right there like Like his just his look of panic when I said, hey, how's it going, bro? His look of panic went down a little bit. And he goes, I don't know where we are. And I go, okay, cool. I literally said, I go, okay, cool.

We're going to set a perimeter. Take your time, figure out where we're at and how we can get back on track. Let me know when you're ready. And he goes, Roger that. And then it allowed him to actually Decompress for a second and figure out where we were And it took him a minute two minutes and then he you know we did it So that idea of instead of texting you

Where is this podcast people are waiting for it? Yeah Hey how's it going we making any progress? Yeah Yeah and so that became clear when you actually like would call and be like hey You'd be like same thing I think you even said the same thing hey How's it going? Legging that way. And you're right, man. Because, bro, I'm not used to that.

You know, like when something's going on. That was pressure. You're not used to. Pressure. No, no, no. I'm used to some pressure. I mean, let's face it, I'm from quite. Not that much pressure.

But we're, you know, working for people in the deadline and hurry up and, you know, like this. And, you know, where are we with it? Something going wrong and stuff like that. That, okay, I'm no stranger to that. But the reaction for the people who I'm working, quote, unquote, for. I'm not used to them being so cool about it. I'm usually them saying,

where are we? You know, their frustration is now, you know, kind of part of my world, my added frustration or stress or whatever. So when you came with that, with,

how's it going, bro? It was like, dang, this is like, it really helped. It really helped a lot. So meanwhile,

but still the problem's still there. Meanwhile, I'm not getting that level of coolness from the general public. Our people. And it morphed into jokes about Echo, how he's, I don't know, cruising too hard and like all this stuff, which is kind of cool, I guess is funny. But anyway, then our savior, Brady Lanter comes and is like, hey, I can help you with this and all that knows all this technical background stuff, which I knew like a little bit from web development. But he knew like the real tech side.

And man, he basically took my hand and held my hand and called some people and boom, boom, boom, you got to do this. hey we gotta spend a little bit more money to do this but we can patch it up and man he got it he got it rolling and like literally solved that problem forever so man but point is there where that's when

I knew that yeah like how you say like you can't really do it twice or once every two weeks because people are like hey we kind of need this thing that's when it was clear to me that yeah man it's we kind of have like we're all kind of in this together and you can't just bust out once every two

Yeah, and you also can't. I mean, I always feel this way about everything too, but you also can't be like, oh, you know what, we'll just throw something together and put it out there. Like that's not happening. Yeah. So it has to be a real effort 100% of the time. Yeah. Or it's a failure.

All right, so that's cool. You get some technical knowledge from just the function of being the guy that's putting this stuff together. What about just from sitting across the table for what are we almost four years? Yep. Yeah, almost four years. What are the lessons learned from a broader perspective life-wise? Well, yeah, it started quick too. So, okay, so remember, okay, well, the early episodes, like I would drink, I would have a drink going, you know. I wouldn't get hammered, nothing like that. And when you say drink you mean alcohol like beverage we're not talking a jaco discipline go or a jaco white tea or maybe a little hit discipline hitter yeah talking you're drinking what did you use to drink vodka

and soda water there you go yeah or sometimes a beer whatever but it was like that was one of those things and not that I was like nervous doing it but I was like kind of nervous going into it kind of thing and it was just yeah like a little comfort thing or whatever and it was one of those things where you didn't necessarily tell me like hey you don't need to do that You know, like you or that's weak or another you didn't tell me that but there was always like this feeling of it, you know And it can hit me where that's like ESP, right? What is that? Yeah, what is it? What is the ESP did?

Extra sensory perception. Yeah, that's like me just kind of willing like thoughts into your head. I guess, but there's I'd say one of the earlier things that you said and not necessarily to me, but just on the podcast that You know, like, you say a lot of stuff. And it's kind of like, and you are essentially talking to me, right? You're sitting across talking to me. But one of the things you said was, you already know the right thing to do. You just have to do it.

Then I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm thinking like, okay, I heard that before, but you start to think about it. Like, oh, man, that's true, huh? You just, you know already. It's not like a big, like, mystery like you know. So it's like, what are, because it's kind of lame to know the right thing to do and not do it. There has to be something too with the fact that you're not just hearing me say the words, but you are a person that actually sees what I'm doing on a daily basis in a way. Yeah.

You know what I'm doing. You see what I'm doing. So when I'm saying that, it's not like, oh, you, whatever, what's that word, drifted through, what's that called? Scrolled through your Instagram feed and someone said, you already know it. to do just do it you're actually watching me and saying oh yeah he's he knows what he's supposed to do and he's doing yes so and and here's here's when that part became clear where the first time okay so okay so i'm recording a podcast let's say five episodes in we'll just say i don't know maybe it's more maybe it's less but five episodes in it's like okay that's five weeks every week now you're

and we're recording in my house at this time and you'd come up and it was like at night yeah we have Dude, after Presley was asleep. Yeah, after everyone was going to sleep. And you'd come up. We'd record him like, cool. And then one time I'm like, shoot, this is like, again, again, again. And then you're coming in with your notes and all this stuff. Like, man, this guy is like, bro, this guy's no quit.

Because it was like, you can be doing the coolest, finest thing. But when it's like coming again and again and again, you're like, whoa, let me take a rest between sets here a little bit. You know? But nope, not you. You're just rolling in. and then after a while, when I started getting used to it, that's when I'd like sort of reflect. Like, man, if you weren't here doing this right now,

if I, let's say I had fulfilled my own little weird old dream of having a podcast and that's my job, I don't think I would have done it as often for sure. I would have started slowing down or whatever because there would be times where I'd be like, man, maybe we should just take this week off kind of thing. And it's not like it's this crazy hard work. I'm just, that's sort of how it is,

but it seemed like that didn't phase you at all. I remember one time I had a gig on the East Coast and I flew and then I had another gig on the East Coast and I had whatever, a day in between. And we owed a podcast and I flew back to San Diego. We went, recorded the podcast and I flew back out to the East Coast. Yeah, yeah. And I said, hmm, that's what we're doing here.

Yeah. We're getting this podcast done. Yeah, man. And that's like, that is so such a, for lack of a better term, like, I'm so lucky in that way because, like, that's not like a rare thing where you're hanging around with someone and they rub off on you, you know, where you knew all this stuff, but since the person right next to you was doing it, then you start to do it, you know. It's like, like, Jiu-Jitsu, you know, you hear about J-Jitsu, whatever, but it's like,

what if, like, your brother starts doing J-Jitsu or whatever, or the people at work start doing J-Jitsu? Then, you know, let me go check this out. It, like, it kind of influences you, you know, in that way. So it's lucky that like, and this is every week. Not to mention all the training jiu-jitsu. So I'm around you more. And we're talking about it.

And it's new and it. So we're always talking about it. So, oh, yeah, man. I was just primed for influence at that time. So at that point, I was like, yeah, man, he's really doing it. And going back to you already know the right thing to do. You just have to do it. So I'm like, okay.

And then I see you doing it. So that influenced me to like really take that into consideration as far as like daily conscious thought, you know? So then what did that actually turn into as far as action wise? Okay, first I stopped drinking and here's the thing. I didn't stop drinking, but I stopped drinking where that was like a habit. So I stopped that and so you went from used to drink every day every day. Yeah.

How often do you drink now? There's no like often like sometimes they'll drink sometimes. It won't but yeah. Once a month once a week. Yes, like sometimes none a month zero a month. but then sometimes like three times a week, whatever. And this is just how it shook itself out. Like now it's not a habitual thing every night, you know?

It's just, it's more of a, yeah, I can maneuver my way through any, like, drinking scenario, you know? And I don't even know if I was like addicted, like an alcoholic. I mean, maybe technically on paper or something, maybe. But it was the kind in, it was basically this. If I had three, and I think I told you this before, where there was three factors with me drinking a lot. And that was if I was undisturbed, meaning by like my family or any like obligations, you know, like I got to drive somewhere or take care of the kids or whatever. Undisturbed. Meaning if you had no responsibility at a certain time.

A certain time, yeah. So that's an opportunity to drink and a likelihood to drink. Yes. Okay. That was a factor. Got it. And then the other one was obviously alcohol present, right? And then the third one was being in front of my computer.

That was it. if any of those, if one or more of those three factors were not there, like I wouldn't drink. I'm not compelled to drink at all. You know, like, I'm not against drinking. Like, I'll go out and drink sake or something and EDC or whatever.

But it was a non-factor. But if you get those three, especially back then, if I had those three present, which was essentially every night, the kids go to bed, you know, I don't have to wake up early for something specific or whatever.

My computer, and it's weird because it wasn't my laptop when I'm traveling or something like that. It was like my, home computer. It's weird. But if those three things were present, like it was pretty much uncontrollable. So then what was it that broke that?

That thing. Like, you're a thing where it's like, you know the right thing to do. You just got to do. You know how like, and this is, I think, always going to be the case. I'm sure it's something that has to do with your brain. But like you can know the right thing to do. You can do, you know, but you over, it's almost like you over simplify it. You're like, hey, how do you wait?

up early wake up early you know but a real person will be like how do I wake up early okay yeah I wake up early yeah that's where I want to get how do I do that you're like yeah just do it's like you're skipping all these like mental hoot hoops and acrobatics that normal people do on like emotions and habits and like all this like stuff that we have to sort of go through to get there you know because we like certain comforts in fact not only do we like them it's like we can sort of need them in a in a little bit A little bit of a way. Tell yourself you later.

Right. Exactly, right. And you kind of oversimplify it. So coming from someone just telling you that, oh yeah, just wake up early. You're like, okay, like I shouldn't even have asked you because essentially in a way, it's not really what I'm asking. Like, I know that part. Like, how do I get there?

How do I make that part like more accessible or that ability more accessible to myself? That's kind of what they're asking. But meanwhile, like I'm watching you do all these things. And it's kind of like that's how you are. You just oversimplify it kind of thing. Like you just, all right, I'm just going to do it. Granted, there's more to it. But like, what I'm seeing, you just do it.

So I'm like, I guess I'm just going to do it then. And then you do it. Then it's kind of like, oh, bro, I should have done that like 10 years ago. That is literally how simple it is. Granted, it'll be just as simple or just as complex and hard and, you know, slippery of a situation as you make it. As you allow it to be. Yeah.

and allow it, yeah, but when you kind of, when I think back on it for myself, I'm like making it complicated, like putting effort into making it. And I still do it. That's one step further. It's one step further than allowing it to be. It's actually making it complicated.

I think that's how most of us are. That's the thing. So, okay, so here's another thing that I learned when you're like, and it does go back to just, you know the right thing, just do it, regardless of how you feel about, like, working out, right? So I worked out. I liked working out, weightlifting and stuff.

I sort of liked it, you know? Sort of one of those things to look for it. But, you know, as you get older, you have other responsibilities, all this stuff. You don't necessarily like it as much, but you know it's good for you and all this stuff. So there was a point where it was really easy to justify and skip workouts. Let's do it tomorrow, whatever.

Because they don't feel like it. I didn't get enough rest or I'm doing this other thing or whatever, right? But if you're just like, hey, you know it needs to be done, you just do it. Don't think about it. think about but that's not really how my brain work my brain worked where I was I was kind of dependent on that that that good feeling of looking forward to working out and getting fired up and working out I was kind of dependent on that feeling you don't realize it but it's there fully where

you're dependent on it so you're just like yeah you just don't think about just do it but I'm like wait but I but I really don't feel like it I don't feel like that's a given I don't feel like that's a given part of the equation so then what I would do is okay I'll just do it but not do it like I just do it as in workout I just do it as in try to get fired up and try to get myself motivated and get get fired up to do this stuff. But that's not how it works.

You just get you don't work harder to get that unnecessary part of it into the equation. I mean, you can if it worked for it, but that's not the point that I took from it. The point is you skip that. Like you can just go work out, just do it, you know, kind of thing. It's like, it's so simple when I'm like saying it out loud. It's like, yeah, it seems obvious.

That's a good connection to make. It's a good connection to make when it's like just go do the activity. It's not just it's not hey, just force yourself to get fired up. Just force yourself. No, because you can't even do that. I guess you could try, but why waste the energy on that? Just go do the activity that you're supposed to do. Yeah.

And then another thing is like you make a good point. It's like a lot of this stuff is just sort of there and you're just there to like grab my hand and like be like, here. See the thing you've been seen this whole. time here what's crazy okay so when you're learning jihs have you ever learned something in jiu jitsu we cannot believe that you couldn't figure that out that you didn't figure that out i'll give an example here's a real simple example um you're mounted on someone and they start to push your knee or with their hand or their elbow to start an elbow escape i remember like people would do this to me i mean i'm i'm a white belt maybe even i'm a blue belt and i think i asked

Dean. I'm like, hey, Dean, what do you do when they start pushing? And he goes, oh, so he does it to me, or he, you know, he mounts me and he goes, here, push my knee. So I start pushing his knee. He reaches it down with the sand and pulls it off. And, and the answer was so obvious. And this is one of hundreds of examples. And I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but I'm not that stupid either. And for me to not be able to figure out certain things, it shows you that, you that, that if you can't, it shows you that there's certain things that can be right in front of your face and you just don't see them. And I think that's what you're talking about.

Like, I'm not holding your hand, but I'm just going, hey, no, no, no, wait, let me show you exactly what to do here. You just do this. Yeah. And it's like, and there's a lot, you know, there's, I've heard many people have told me that that's what they got from the podcast or that that's what they got from extreme ownership or the economy leadership or the discipline equals freedom field manual. They're like, I always thought that. I always knew that. Yeah. I mean, I was just with an Australian,

when we were at the monster, you know, an Australian guy that was in the military for a long time. And he said, yeah, when I read, when I read your book, I was like, yes, you just put into words what I, the way I've been trying to lead. And the good thing about that is,

you have the idea in your head of what's good, but you don't necessarily codify it where you can now say, yes, this is the answer. So that's a, it's a big step. It's like occasionally you randomly pull the hand that's getting you in the mouth. You might do it occasionally,

but you don't actually know it and identify it as something you can do. Whereas once you go, oh, when someone's doing that, here's the reaction, boom, do. So there's a definite plus to that. Yeah. And that rabbit hole of like revelations like that

is endless. It keeps like going and going and going. And certain things you sort of forget to, you know, because, you know, a human being, we're all human beings with habits and stuff like that. So you forget certain ones or whatever, but man,

It's like they're everywhere, everywhere. So even like the whole, just the whole concept of if you don't feel like doing it, but you know that it needs to get done or whatever. Or even just that you want it to be done, but you don't feel like it. Just excluding the part that you don't feel like it, just doing that, seems super simple. Or it seems easy. It is very simple.

It seems like pretty easy when you say it. And then when you go through it, it seems so hard. But the weird thing, and this is nothing new, where once you get it done, like, okay, so an email, right? You may or may not go through this, but a lot of us go through this where it's like you have this nagging email of someone that you have to respond to someone. And to respond to them, you need certain information. And to get that information, you got to go reopen some files and stuff like that. It'll take two minutes, two minutes, probably not even two minutes. But you got to, your brain has to stop thinking this way and has to pivot and change these weird directions and do all this other stuff.

Right. So you just, man, I don't feel like doing that right now. I'm doing this other stuff. Or I'm just not doing that right now. I'll do it tomorrow. Do it later today, whatever. And then it winds up being like weeks. And meanwhile, it's still there.

The email's still there. Hanging over your head. Hanging over your head. Then you're like, I just have to talk about that on the Warrior Kid podcast. Letting your homework hang over your head. Actually, there's some kids that probably didn't know what hang over your head. I kind of explain what that means. Yes.

Because when something's hanging over your head, what are you waiting? You're waiting for that thing to hit you in the head. So you don't want that. When you get home from school, do your homework. Don't let it hang over you. It ruins your whole night. So that email is going to ruin your whole night. Your whole thing, your whole life.

Your whole life. So, I mean, not in this huge way, but it'll be nagging. It's like, you know, it's kind of like when you're sleeping and you've got to use bathroom. And you're like, oh, just go use the bathroom. You don't want to get stand up. Just go. Just do it. Anyway, so meanwhile, okay, then finally, you're like, you know what?

Finally, I feel like it. Or finally, I can't take it anymore. or finally it's irritating. It's irritating me enough, so I'll do it. You go on the email, you take care of the thing, you do it. It takes two minutes or whatever. You're done. And you're like, bro, why didn't I just do that a long time ago?

I wouldn't have felt any of that stress or whatever. And so, but habitually going into that mode where it's like, okay, this needs to get done. I don't care how I feel. I'm just going to do it real quick. Like that in and of itself is a habit, is a way, you know, is a way of thinking at the very least. So if that was something that I got better at. as well. The other thing that's been interesting, well, interesting from my perspective is that you

are de facto detached during this whole thing. So you get to be, I mean, first of all, even when, if I'm covering a book, I mean, you're listening, but you get to kind of observe me reading the book, thinking about the book, talking about the book. When we have guests on, a lot of times you don't say anything. And you're just completely getting to observe this whole thing unfold from the outside. So you can I know I've we've gotten done with some podcasts and and someone would ask me say like, well, how was that? Like one of our guests would say, how was it?

And I'll look at you and say, how was it? Because I'm in it. And you have a better perspective because you are literally detached and watching it. I mean, I'm somewhat detached, but I'm also reading, writing, uh, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, thinking, engaging, answering. So I'm doing all those things. And I'm detached from that enough. You know, I'm detached from it enough that I can guide the conversation.

I'm detached from enough that I'm not getting too emotional or too stuck on something. Or, I mean, let's face it, there's been some danger close calls where those emotions are creeping up, you know, sitting across from a, from a guy that's, you know, been through whatever. And you're bringing those emotions back out of them. And, I mean, it can get danger close for sure. And sometimes I got to do a little detachment to keep. it real but you all and sometimes I do a better job of attaching it most than you do because because you'll be over in the court or you'll be sitting in your chair you know

and I got to I got to try and keep it together yeah because you're not so but that's sometimes sometimes you get wrapped up in the emotions of the story yourself especially if it has to do with kids you kind of lose the bubble and but other than those moments a lot of times you're sitting there just listening and and you're So you kind of get to you kind of get a great perspective of it, which is nice. Yes, sir. Yeah, I'd say I'm like maybe 60%, maybe 50% detached because I'm like I'm the audience member just like everybody else. Really like when you're talking about stuff and or when you're interviewing someone like, man,

I'm enjoying the show like everybody else. But I'm like in the show as well, you know, so as an audience member, we'll say. that's how I can evaluate hey that was a good show or like bro what are you guys to even talking about right now kind of thing I'm not saying that it's ever happened I'm not saying it has you know

but and that's why it is you know so yeah I will be affected by these things and but then I'll be affected even more because yes I am part of it like I'm in it you know I'm sitting here across from you guys but yes yeah because when you're talking

whether you or even like let's say what I'm talking to you even right now. Like there's a few things sort of rolling in my brain like okay sure I say what I'm gonna say my little idea and it comes out. But then there's like a post talk thought as well like dang yeah exactly like a little assessment like shit or am I saying the right thing you know or did that sound dumb. It's like it's just a constant like small like humming evaluation kind of process that's going on. And then it's like okay like do I want to interrupt at this point because I have a thought but no I couldn't so I'm sort of minding my peas and cues as well. You know so there's all

these little things that hold you in and not it won't it'll kind of keep you from being detached but I don't have that when I'm not saying anything you know but yeah even you I mean I would imagine you're you kind of have the same thing you know you have to run this you have to you yeah I got to think about what I'm saying at the same time this is this is the dichotomy of that if you think about what you're saying too much it's not going to be good just like jihitsu right if you're thinking about a move it's too late if you if you're analyzing what you're going to say before it comes out of your mouth to make sure that's the right thing. Well, you're you're not not the right thing to do. At the same time, you can't just go verbal diarrhea and just start spewing stuff out because now you

now you may say some stuff that you shouldn't say. So there's a little a little game that you have to play. You have to you have to kind of assess that stuff. You have to be detached when you're doing it to make sure that you don't say something stupid. And you can say stupid stuff. I mean, I, I think about the amount of interviews I've done and just like you you never know when it's going to come. I'm sure at some point I'm going to say something go, ooh, I wish I wouldn't have said that. I should have never said that. It is what it is. Yeah.

And you could, I mean, and it makes sense to where you can, you can have a certain thought. And then there's like, how do you say that thought, right? Like how do you, how do you articulate your thoughts, right? and to expect or to think that like if you have a thought, it'll be perfectly articulated or whatever. Those don't go hand in hand. Some people are super good at it. Like, in fact, you're like, you're one of the better people that I've witnessed anyway

at that. Probably, you know, probably because you keep things pretty simple most of the time. But at the same time, like you're not immune to that, you know? So sometimes, like your articulation of a certain thought will come off like different. You know, it'll come off like, it might even be accurate, but then the way it'll land on people will be like, okay, and I'm not saying this necessarily has happened. I'm saying this type of stuff can't happen.

So it'll be like, oh, yeah, you came off as like insensitive or you don't understand or you're racist or you're, you know, like all these interpretations that seem like reasonable interpretations given the words that you said. But it's like, man, that was just, I shouldn't have said it that way because it's not quite as accurate as what I think, you know. So yeah, you've got to constantly monitor that. So it'll jam you up as far as.

Yeah. What about in terms of relationships like your wife? What have you taken away? Just taking, man. Does your wife like you more now? Yeah. Or before? I think she likes me more now.

Put it this way. Like I like our relationship better now. And that's saying a lot because like we have a good, we already had a good relationship. You know, like, I was one of these, we were like these people who we knew each other before we started dating. Like, we knew it. So there was no like, you can, you can get in, you can jam yourself up. I think sometimes. Like, if you jump into a dating situation like super early and then a marriage situation super early and whatever, like you can jam yourself up.

I'm just saying it always happens, but you can. And I'm not saying if you know someone for a long time and take it slow. I'm not saying that's a perfect like solution. I'm not saying that. But in our case, we took it like super slow. So there was like we had a solid foundation, have a solid foundation. So the point there, we had a good relationship. But, you know, like in your relationship, there's like arguments and, you know,

I'm sorry. I shouldn't have acted like that, you know. There's like way less of that. Like, because I know like habitually how to how to act, you know. So, okay, so extreme ownership, right? Extreme ownership. That goes deep, bro. It's, that's a constant, like that rabbit hole right there is like you've, at first

when you first like get introduced to it like, oh yeah, everything. And you're like, yeah, okay, makes sense. Yeah, yeah, I got that. Yeah, yeah. I get the concept. Take ownership. Don't blame. I get it, right?

But there's like so many levels of blaming. So many. There's like the overt like, hey, you should have done this. Like blaming, right? The kind of I think it. I say it. I'm blaming 100%. Then there's like, oh, you know, it's not your fault.

But inside your head, you're like, it's your fault, you know? So that'll drive certain other like subsequent like behavior, you know. Then there's like, oh, okay, I know I'm supposed to take, you're thinking this near it. I'm supposed to take extreme ownership, so I'm not going to blame them. So it's not your,

it's my fault, you know, but meanwhile, your behavior doesn't like take full responsibility because kind of sort of quote unquote, deep down, you know, it's not fully here.

You know, it's kind of, and it just goes deeper and deeper, deeper, deeper, deeper. And then you find out all these little pockets of like non-extreme ownership, you know,

that you have. And to me, granted, you know, my life is very, specific, but with your wife, or I guess kids, but that's different, but with your wife, it's a good, it's a good battlefield to, to test that out and to learn about it because it can get so emotional, you know, like, and you don't really have a break from it. You know, it's like at work, it's like, cool. That didn't work. Even if I messed up, I can still go home to my lovely family or go out to the bar. I have a break from it, you know? With your wife, it's like you don't have a break from it. It's like you got to perform, you know, like you got to, it kind of means a lot. It matters. A lot. I have a break from it, you know, like you got to, it kind of means a lot. It matters. So I think it works good. But at the same time, you guys both have a commitment to be there.

So it's like you can get cut some slack most of the time. Obviously it depends on your wife. But in my case, that's how it was. So what I sort of discovered and continue to discover, like just how good it works. Just how good like extreme ownership just and everything that comes with it. You know, like not blaming all the little tips that you'll say like what is the one where like? what do you say absorb in something you know when they come at you with something that happened to them like can you believe reflect and diminish yeah yeah yeah like that oh man man gold golden ticket right there man so good even like and that reflect and diminish in fact you can even use it in like you can just reflect oh for sure you even have to diminish just jump on if it doesn't mean anything you know just jump on our side right now you know well yeah you can jump on the side the thing is the reason that diminish is important on reflect and diminish is because if you can fuel the fire even more, what you want to move towards is a solution.

You want to, you want to de-escalate the situation. Yeah. But the best way to do that is to reflect the emotions that they're showing and then diminish them a little bit so that they come, so that they're on your side. Yes, but then they start to calm down. Yeah. So you can like, you can ref-so that when I just said that, I'm thinking of like a few different scenarios where I'll just reflect. I won't even diminish until like the next day or something. You know, so essentially it's reflecting, but I'll just reflect.

Extended reflect. Oh, man, you know how much it does for your, you're, well, I'm speaking about myself. So I don't know. No, it's true. And by the way, you're talking about this from a marriage perspective. I'm talking about it from a leadership perspective, and they're the same thing. They're the same thing. But what's interesting is you just said, you know how good this is?

And you're right. And you know what you've got to be careful of that? Because it's an easy way to bond with someone is they coming and say, the boss, sucks and you go, yeah, the boss sucks. That's actually not the right thing to do, right? You don't want to disparage your boss. What you want to say is, you know, you want to, but you don't want to say, no, the boss is awesome because now you're at enemies, right? But when the person says, oh, the boss sucks and you say, you know, I'm not really sure where they're making this decision from.

Oh, okay. Well, now you're talking about a decision. So you're giving them a little bit of reflection, but you're diminishing a little bit so you can have a real conversation about what's going on. Yeah. Yeah, so there's a certain scenario that comes up a lot. This scenario literally means nothing at the end of the day. So, and you'll get these, well, in my life, I'll get these from time to time where. So, for example, my wife, like many wives, watch reality TV from time to time.

And, you know, it's the real housewives of this or married to medicine or whatever, right? These are TV shows. TV shows. And they're like the Depends on your opinion, but you know, they're in my opinion One of the most like the lamest type of show But whatever it's real. It's these girls they throw them together And they're all rich and super immature and doing dumb stuff

And yelling and blah blah blah Sounds like awesome It sounds like a great TV program So but here's the thing You know when there's like a sort of You know when we're just sort of cruising relaxing and whatever And it's on This is what I used to do back in the day

Where I'd be like Like, what is this show? This show is dumb. Like, this whole thing is dumb. You disparage her the thing that she likes. Right. And I didn't mean, that's not what I'm meaning to do. Which means you're disparaging her.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But I didn't mean to do that. I'm more like, I'm talking about the show, you know. You're just being truthful. You're being truthful. Exactly, right? You're just using radical candor.

Exactly. But meanwhile, she'd get, I mean, she wouldn't get mad, but every once in a while, she'd be like, hey, just leave me alone. You know, like, I don't, I don't, you know, talk trash about your shows. I don't give you, she was like, I don't insult you, you know, about your shows or whatever.

Meanwhile, I'm thinking like, keep in mind, sometimes we'll watch McGiver and these types of shows, right, so I don't really have much of a leg to stand on,

but in my head, I'm like, yeah, because my shows are awesome, kind of thing, you know? And the thing is, I'm not doing anything to her.

I'm talking about the show, you know, kind of thing. But just like how you said, it's like I'm disparaging her taste and show, her choices, like basically all this stuff,

her whole, her whole, whole thing, so I started to realize that or whatever so I did the whole reflect, no diminish. Because it's meaningless. The show is me, like, I can disparate your show and her all, but she's still going to like

the show, you know, it's not like she bases her life on it. This is literally meaningless. So now she'd be like, oh my gosh, I can't believe like this lady did that. I'm in the room, so of course, it could literally be a cat in the room. She'd probably say the same thing. Like, she's just saying it to someone, right? I can't believe, I can't believe she did this and she'll

like rewind it or whatever, but like, hell yeah. Yeah, she's so stupid, like kind of like I'm into the show, you know? And every once in all she'll catch it. She'd be like, you don't like this show or whatever. And the thing is I don't, but it's kind of fun to do. And at the same time, it's like consider the difference, you know, consider the difference to be saying, oh my gosh, don't, you don't rewind it. I don't care about that.

You know, so it's like that kind of stuff as well, man, where it's like you kind of look at in, you look at the whole situation as far as like the big picture, you know, where it's like, do I, do I make it a point to, make a point right now. You know? Answer that question for you. Nope. Man.

So when you look broadly, what's like your most valuable thing that you've kind of adopted into your life since we started recording

this podcast? At first there's one but there's two things and they might play off each other I guess but the main one is the long game versus the short game. And you said that to me early on that I was like,

I would have never thought of that given what you said it about back then. But the long game versus the short game. So I was like, man. So that stuck in my head. And since then, I realize every little move you make literally, like in life, I don't care if it's like you're going to the store to go buy some, I don't know, paper towels or something.

It's like there's always a long game and a short game in play right now. So anything, and if you think about it, anything that you're successful at, It's like you're at least playing the long game. Some things in life, people just aren't even playing the game. They're just going minute to minute, you know? And that's a, that's short playing. The short game.

Yeah, you know, you caught this at one of the musters, a guy asked, how often are you thinking strategically, which thinking strategically is thinking the long game. And you caught a clip of me getting a little bit fired up of saying, you know, I'm thinking strategic all the time. That's let, and that's the truth. Yeah. That is the way you should look at every decision that you make.

Why would you make a decision based on the short-term outcome being positive if it has a negative long-term effect? Yeah. You just shouldn't do that. You got to play the long game. And I'll tell you, like I am thinking strategic all the time. So good, man. And that is so beneficial. It's so beneficial.

in everything that you do. And yet it's easy to get suckered in to making short-term decisions based on short-term gratification based on the ease of movement, based on the path of least resistance, based on what's going to feel good right now, based on even what's going to produce good results right now.

Look, we hope that our immediate results are aligned with our long-term results and something that benefits us right now will benefit us in the long run. That's a great opportunity. That does happen sometimes. But sometimes, oftentimes short-term gains will result in long-term losses. So you've got to think through this in everything that you do.

Yeah. And I remember one when that guy asked that question. And I remember thinking to myself, hmm, that that's interesting. It kind of became clear why that's not so obvious. And there's obvious reasons why it's for sure. Because when he asked the, when he asked the question, he's like, how, because when even when you put it in those terms like strategic versus tactical, right? Tactical is the short term game.

Strategic is a long term game. Even so when you put, when you use those specific words, like, hey, so how often are you thinking strategic? It's almost like it gives this feeling. It's a feeling that you're like plotting,

you know? How often are you plotting? Meaning you have a certain plot in mind, you know? Like, but it doesn't mean that. Like that's one maybe possible way of seen it, but I don't,

I'm not talking about that. Like everything. is like a game like you're moving through life you know so what where's your aim going to kind of sort of be and those those aims those goals for lack of better term or are literally everything you do like otherwise why what are you even doing why would even move a muscle you know if you don't have like an aim to do it or whatever and that aim is going to be either long term or short term can be both can be both for sure and that's like the that's it's rare but that's really a good opportunity as you put it. But even if like you stand it like you're sitting there right not moving a muscle,

right? We'll say it's a good extreme example. And you're like, okay, I got to move a muscle, right? Maybe because I'm getting stiff or whatever. There's always some like goal that you got to sort of achieve. And if you look at everything like that and you consider, okay, what's the ultimate outcome that I want? You know, and you can just keep that in mind, man. That is like a life, life-changing thing when you can really understand that, I think. That is a good one. Another thing that I told a story one time on this podcast, and you mentioned it to me.

I was talking about how when I was young, I was in a seal platoon, and I was thinking I was all awesome. And all of a sudden, like other guys were getting promoted. Other guys were moving into better positions than me. And I've kind of looked at myself and I said, if you're so smart, then why aren't you winning?

And that was a big step for me to come to that realization. And what's good about it is that's another kind of early indicator of taking ownership. Because instead of me saying, look, I'm smart and I'm not winning because everyone else is against me because this guy's that and this guy's NASCAR and this guy, you know, all that. Could have done that. Instead, I looked at myself and said, wait a second, if you're so smart. And luckily for me, some of the guys around me were good guys. they were my friends. I knew that I couldn't blame anything on them.

Yeah. But if I was so smart, why wasn't I winning? Yeah. That's the other thing. Oh, that's the other. 100%. And, you know, you see it in people, and like a lot of these things, just like extreme ownership, like you can see it in other people super clear.

You know, like, this guy's talking a lot of trash for being a loser, you know, kind of thing, you know, like, you know, the old thing where it's like, oh, yeah, I'm getting, this guy's giving me relationship advice when he's like a single person, you know, he doesn't have a successful. relationship or whatever, you know, it's like that kind of stuff. It's super easy to see that in other people. But for yourself, it's like, yeah, man, I have this cool idea that you probably got from someone else or whatever. And you have this cool idea. You're so quick to be, to tell people about it and to correct this person, you know, because it's so obvious they're doing it wrong, right? So you're going to

correct them and boom, boom, and you have your arguments and debates all like formulated perfectly. You ain't any debate. Meanwhile, you're not doing anything, you know, if you're just like sort of, So that is a big deal. Like what I realize that that's a huge deal. And it's way better just to be quiet, man. And it's kind of like how you guys talk about at the Monster. You and Dave Burke, they'll, good deal, dude. You'll talk about like taking action, right?

So it's like the taking action part is like the hardest part of whatever, right? It's like the guy who goes to school so much, so much. And then he's like, but he can't really function in the real world because his whole focus is on going to school. Or the person watching like a bunch of motivational video. And he's just all he's motivated to do is watch more motivational videos. You know he doesn't take any action or whatever Do you get dopamine from a one motivational video? Do I? Just do people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's what that's what makes I'm gonna want to go watch another one? Watch more. Yeah, yeah, yeah, hell yeah. Yeah, they're like two things, you know, like two separate separate things

But nonetheless it It kind of brings all that into perspective, you know, like you you you you If you're not, or if you're so smart, why aren't you winning? So the why aren't you winning part, that's the most important part. You know, like, it's almost like, bro, who cares how smart that person is? You ever hear someone hate on someone like, oh, they're just dumb or whatever? Like, who's the one? The Kim Kardashian, right?

You know, people hate on her. They're like, I'm not even saying necessarily that I feel this way, but I'm saying this is what plays out a lot of the time. They'll hate on it. They're so dumb. And they're so dumb or whatever. And then it's like, all right. But if you're so not dumb, like, why is she like winning? You know, you're sort of not, you know, kind of thing.

It's like that whole idea is got put into perspective very much. So it's like that's always on my mind too. Like before I open my mouth or whatever, it's like, bro, before you open your mouth, you should really work on a bunch of stuff first. You see what I'm saying? So, yeah, that's a big one. And it helps a lot too because you start to focus on doing rather than blabbing, you know. And I don't mean just blabbing.

I mean, everywhere. Like on social media, all these people having their strong opinions. You know, it's crazy. I, you know, I, I see that happen, right? You know, like when I was on with Joe Rogan and Tulsi Gabbard. You know, obviously there was, she's a, she's literally running for president of the United States of America. Okay, cool. And there's obviously, we touched on, we didn't really like have a debate by any stretch.

I mean, we both. We both kind of talked about things and we all kind of talked about things as human beings that were whatever. You know, it's pretty straightforward, right? But the conversations that took place on Twitter after that, I mean, we're talking just, I was, I was like, man, is this the best place for this random person to have this major debate with some other random person? about whatever topic had come up that was either, you know, they didn't agree with or they agreed with. So it's a little crazy sometimes. Oh, yeah.

Huge. I hear people say, you know, that Twitter is just the most horrible thing to participate in, right? And I don't really think it's a horrible thing. In fact, I've gotten great interactions on Twitter. I've gotten incredible feedback. I've met people. I mean, the whole reason that I was on with Joe and Tulsi was because of Twitter. But books, I've linked up with people.

We've had people on the podcast that I never would have heard of or never would have been introduced to that are American heroes that have incredible stories. That's all through Twitter. I've gotten great feedback. I've gotten adjustments. I've gotten correct. So that's all good. But yeah, if you're going to go down the hole of like, hey, let's debate this hot, controversial topic. You know, it's hard for me to reflect on that in a positive way.

You know, it's hard for me to look at someone and go, man, this is what you, you know, you just sent out nine tweets like linked, you know, you can link tweets together. Sure. Yeah. And someone will send out nine tweets about some topic. And it just worries me because I think there's more productive things that people could do with their time. Like if you want to put those things together in an organized way and you want to make those statements. And almost always they're attacking like in a super aggressive personal attack as well. So anyways, it's just interesting.

Yeah. It says a lot. it says a lot like the words say what they say but like the fact that those words are there like says a whole other thing you know like you know the old nothing new where

it's like man you don't have anything better to do than to like express and it's not like a lot by any logical means they'd come to the conclusion that yeah what I say is going to like solve whatever problem it is that I'm addressing or whatever like there's no reason to think that

yeah I I guess I'm trying to think of a good metaphor for me this is like a metaphor if you saw someone that was having a that was shouting at a at a toilet at the top of their lungs and and they walk out of that stall kind of like yeah you know kind of like yeah and and I'm thinking man you just you just yelled because that's what that's what it is right you're Yelling at a toilet because whoever doesn't want to listen to you isn't even going to read the little things that you wrote So once again, that's why it's more what's more important is like

Why not find some common ground with someone from a leadership from just from a leadership perspective right from a leadership perspective? I want to find common ground with someone I want to figure out what it is that they think what their perspective is so that I can understand their perspective so that I can actually Give them a logical argument or at least show them what I believe to be valid points so that they can then give me feedback on those points and I can learn from them and either adjust my position or adjust their position. You can't get that done when you're yelling at a toilet, which is what a lot of people end up

doing. So. But yeah, and also that reminds me as well. Another is a little bit more of a detail than anything, but like how you. you do the whole at the musters you call it being a tactical genius where you just be quiet and let everyone else talk kind of thing and this like I find way more prevalent when I hear two people talk and they're talking and they're debating and there's little differences and differences and then you can kind of you know like you're detached from it right but you actively

because man before I was strongly compelled to like jump in and like correct you you you're wrong here and let me correct you right because I'm smart right I got to prove it to these people crew, I'm down, I'm down for this whole thing. I'm smart, right? So I was so quick to like jump in and be like, yeah, you know, that's wrong or that's correct. And let me expand on that kind of thing, you know, and it's fun to do, you know, it's all, you know, you're having conversations, whatever, I dig it. But there's a bigger picture, you know?

So if you don't say anything, you can see that bigger picture. You can be like, right, you know how annoying you're being right now? Like you're, I think you're saying like truthful stuff or whatever, but you're being, there's a bigger picture with what you're doing. So your tactics might be good. Your strategy is awful. It's way off. Your long game is weak.

You're going to win this argument and you're going to make this person dig in deeper. That's what's going to happen. Not to mention like you less after this. You think you're impressing them with the, and I'm thinking of like very specific conversations that I'm remembering right now with, whether it be friends or whatever, friend, family. But you kind of think to yourself, man, like, I used to talk to my brother about this idea where it's like, man, what you're saying is correct in your little debate, but brought what you're doing is wrong. You know, you can't do that. Or you can, but you're going to lose your war or whatever. So, yeah.

So one of the things I learned that's just with me right now. It's with me, hardcore, is just don't say anything. Just be the tactical genius. So when they ask you or when they look at you or when you do for whatever, like, strategic reason, want to chime in. Yeah. You're like, you're way more in a position of that you want to be in, you know, and you don't run the risk of being all.

sucked in and alienating people and doing all the things that you run the risk of doing when you're, you know, trying to impress them with how smart you are and how good your position is, you know. All right. So let's get to your black belt. Yes, sir. You were surprised. Yes. We did a good job of keeping it under wraps. Yeah.

But had you at this point just surrendered the fact that you made, we just were going to be a brown belt for a really long time? Yeah. And part of this part of it was like I'm glad I thought of it this way and part of it is like man I should You know you always think back on things like you should have handled things or whatever so so moving up in ranks and and I say this Kind of in a way as advice to maybe people who can fall into these psychological traps with the belt right they want a belt they want that stripe or the blue belt you know they want they want to get promoted right Because they want to wear part of it is because they want to wear that belt and it doesn't keep in mind it does not help Jiu Jiu Jitsu doesn't help

Jiu Jitsu does not get better currently does not help this particular situation where you know when in our school we don't really do so I thought you were saying it does not help like no no no I thought you're saying hey getting your black belt by the way it does not help your jiu jiu jitsu

which I was like that is true that's a great statement black belt does not make your jiu jiu jitsu any better nope it might even introduce the idea that it's not nearly as good as you thought it was. But yeah, I'll tell you about that too, by the way. But I'm saying the culture of jiu-tutu doesn't help your think, your mindset about this. Especially like our school doesn't do this a lot where you know how they line.

Everyone line up at the end or at the beginning of class. And they're like, hey, my belt. You white belts, you go in the back. Go in the back. Go suckers, you know. Losers. Yeah, man, subhuman. Bro, whatever you guys.

Savages. Oh, yeah. And, oh, the black belts, not even in the front row. in front of everybody facing them. You know, you guys bow down in front of us kind of thing, right? And then, okay, if you're a brown belt, you're almost here, so you can come close, right? Everyone else in the back, you know? So it's like, I dig it, man.

I do it. The jihitsu culture does not help. But if you can kind of get past that, this is how ideally I would have tried to think about it, where you, like, okay, so the belt doesn't matter. Okay. So when I was coming up, I didn't know there was belts. Like I didn't really know. I watched UFC 1, 2, 3, 4, you know, those ones.

And sure, Hoyst case we wearing a belt, but I joined no Giewuddin, so we don't wear belts, therefore no belts. I don't know. I'm thinking back. I didn't think about this, but I'm thinking that that's probably my subconscious thought. So one day, Brent, remember Brent? He was one of the trainers or whatever. He was like, you guys are about white belts here. And it was me in a group in.

I was like, white belts. It's like, hmm, I never thought of that, you know? So doing tournaments and competition and stuff like that after it was a year, like 12, 13 months, right? Jimmy, remember Jimmy Sanchez, right? He was like, hey, come to class tomorrow. And I was like, no, I can't come tomorrow. It was at 6 or whatever. I work.

I work at night. So I can't come. And he was like, no, no, no, come tomorrow, come tomorrow. You have to come tomorrow. And I'm like, I can't come tomorrow. I don't know how else to tell you. Like, I can't come tomorrow. I'm not trained tomorrow.

And he's like, no, no, no, bro, we're having promotions tomorrow. So I'm like, I'm thinking, I'm not thinking belt promotions. I don't know about that yet. So he's like, you still didn't realize? Nope, had no idea. And he goes, he's like, no, we're having promotions. But I'm thinking, you know how like promotions, like a tap out is coming in to promote their brand? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's like a show. Like a promotion. Promotion. That's what I'm thinking. So, and everyone comes in, it's a fun thing. I thought it was like a team thing or something. And I'm like, that's cool. And, man, if I didn't work, that'd be cool.

And I would have, and he said, pro. It's like, what? I got to. I was like, you're getting, he goes, you're getting promoted tomorrow to Blue Belt. And I was like, huh, blue belt. Because I never wore ghee before. I was all no ghee. So it just didn't dawn on me.

So I was like, okay. That was only after like 13 months or whatever. So I was just focused on training and learning cool new moves. And oh my gosh, I can do this now and all that, you know, getting better. And that's what I was focused on learning and stuff. Then I got a bluebell. I was like, cool, but still no ghee. I was competing.

So it's like the belt never really, I'm just, I just want to win. I just want to get better and win because if I don't win, I lose tournaments and that part sucks. It doesn't matter what belt. Plus, no ghee. Like I said, it's not belt driven. It's, you know, time. So, and then I got purple belt, like another year, like super fast. And it was like a surprise.

It was like, Elias was there. Joel Tudor was there. He was like, we're rolling. And I did a little bit of ghee at this time. And I was, we're doing ghee. And then Elias just bust out of purple belt. And he's like giving it to me or whatever. And I was like, huh, this is pretty kind of surprising and kind of crazy.

But I started to do more ghee and then I got hurt like at the end of purple belt. And, you know, people were starting to look at me like, hey, when are you getting to get your brown belt? And it started getting introduced to me. So then my mindset kind of started to shift. Then I stopped competing too. So now like just competing to win wasn't really part of it. It was all about walking in the training room or this corrupt into my mind. So I walk in the training room, you know, I'm a purple belt, but I've been a purple belt for a while.

So like, I want to be a brown belt. Well, I'm better than that guy. You know, like I tap that guy out. I should be, I should be wearing the brown belt standing up front a little bit more, you know. It's that starts to creep in. Meanwhile, all the stuff that got you there, you know, like focusing on like learning new moves, getting better at your moves and being effective, whatever. That is like sort of secondary. You know, you kind of focus like, oh, my instructor's here now.

let me, I better not get caught. I better not experiment. I better like, show them. I'm good. You know, it's like that. And it jams you up. So, and then that's not to mention the frustration when it doesn't happen day after day, week after week. And don't let there be a promotion and you not get promoted.

Harsh, man, harsh. Luckily, that never happened to me. But, like, I've seen people, like, behave in ways that you should never behave in Jiu-to after that happens to. You know, like, a promotion goes on. Everyone gets promoted and they don't. So anyway, so I can imagine the feeling, right? And then it jammed me up. I felt like my learning just didn't with like,

I plateaued like pretty hardcore. What year is this? This is like end of purple belt. Which, what year is that? I got my brown belt in 2012, 2012. Okay. So there was that. And then, you know, after you kind of get promoted,

then everything starts to come into perspective, you know, like, man, I shouldn't have wasted my time. like that all this up but you're kind of easy now that you have the brown belt that you wanted the whole time kind of thing right so you kind of let it go and then especially because brown belt's kind of legit yeah like I mean brown belt is lit is legit like you're a complete um you know yeah you're it's it's a real thing yeah it's like I think you're seriously in the game yes you have game yes like you can technically be a purple belt and really maybe not not have that great.

I mean, look, there's purple belts out there that are murderers for sure. Yeah. But you can be a purple belt and be like, eh, you know. And of course, there's cases where this is completely untrue, but usually a brown belt is legit.

Like 90. I guess for every belt, it goes up like a percentage of what the person, what the, how legit, what the chances are that this person is totally, is legit and has really good jiu jitsu. At Brown Belt, there's a really high probability that you're legit and you have really good Jiu-Jitsu. Yeah, that's a good way of putting it where it's like for every, because it always feels that way.

When you're a white belt and you get promoted to Blue Belt, you're like, man, that's like, that's legit. That's a big, huge deal. And then when you get promoted to Purple Belt, it's so much of a bigger deal that it's like, oh, my Blue Belt promotion was awesome, but like nothing compared to this Purple Belt. And then Purple Belt to Brown is almost like you're becoming an adult kind of thing. So it's like way bigger. It's like cool purple belt, but brown belt, you know, and then of course brown the belt The black belt's even bigger, you know, plus it's like an added little thing to the black belt. But so, you know, it's easier to have clear thoughts on that.

What added little thing to the black belt? To being a black belt. Yeah. Well, you get to stand up front and face the people now, you know, see them. So that's the thing? No, I, there's a lot more. One thing is when you're a black belt, now the percentage of people that are, that have, that don't, really have good jiu jitzu that are black belts is very very small it's very very small

having a black belt and jih Tutsu means there's a 99% chance that you are good at Jiu Jitsu yeah because there's some people that whatever I don't even know where they got their belts from or whatever because what I don't want to do is just blanket say everyone that's a black belt is awesome because that's not true right right yeah yeah but there's a really good chance that you got some good jiu jitsu if you're a black belt yeah fully and so anyway the so the point and then um I I never really ran into that at brown belt, even though I was a brown belt for a long time, like seven years.

I was a brown belt. That was more because I had like career and I let myself like not focused on jiu-jitsu, you know, for a while. Then, you know, I got hurt again, like all this, all this stuff. You know who was always campaigning for you to get your black belt? Who? Greg Train.

Yeah. Okay. My man. Yeah, no, he would. And he's, you're, you're the guy that he'd be like, hey, bro. I was feeling good and I go yeah yeah and he's the that's the classic that's where my joke came from is when do you think he should get his black belt and I go probably another six months and then he probably asked me that five times we know for two years for two years yeah maybe even longer he was like hey what do you think I go and then honestly part of it was you'd get hurt yeah you got you got hurt at some really bad timing to get hurt yeah meaning it was really close like okay we we you know it was like okay we're almost an eye person was always I was only I person was almost in the planning stages of like, okay, time to give him his black belt.

Yeah. And I probably reached that planning phase. I might have reached that planning phase. I don't know. Have you been hurt three times? Their bit, their, well, major injury was by, at Brown Belt, bicep. My knee I was out for a while. Just probably my bicep in my knee.

As far as her injuries go, yeah. Okay, so there's probably two times in there where it was, I was probably in the planning phase. Okay, we need to make this happen. Yeah. And when you get hurt, I'd be like, well, not happening now. Yeah, you know what's, I guess, could be frustrating, but I didn't feel it at the time when I was in.

That happened with Purple Belt as well. Because that day when I got hurt, Elias told me, hey, you got it. I was really into no-gi and no-gee competition. So I didn't want to do the ghee part of it. That was like an all-day competition. They had ghee in the day and then no-gi at night. And Elias was like, hey, do the ghee part of it.

And I was like, no, no, that's not. where my goals lie. You know, giving the speech. He was like, no, no, no, you should really do the ghee. It'll help your game. All this stuff. So like, I've been like, cool, man, I respect you. And you're the man.

But my goals don't, you know, giving him this sort of technical speech. And he's like, kind of like how Jimmy did it did me a long time ago. He was like, bro, do the ghee. Because this guy competition is your brown belt test. Straight up told me because he went to this. So I'm like, cool. One, I won the purple belt. Got hurt in the no ghee.

No purple belt. No purple belt. Years and years and years go by. No purple belt. So same deal, man. Like right before. Wait, that was he told you,

Brown belt or Purple Belt? I was a Purple Belt. That was that, that was the, that geek competition. Yeah, yeah. He didn't say if I won or not. He just said,

that's your test for, to get your Brown Belt. Yeah, you just changed it to Purple Belt when you retold the story. Oh, yeah. Got it. Yeah, so that was the test.

And yeah, passed the test, no promotion. Yeah, because they got hurt. So same deal. But it's, yeah,

it's part of the game. But in Brown, brown belt even though it was longer time and you know what now that i'm thinking of it and i had to stop before you the the the introduction i guess it wasn't an introduction but the introduction of you taking a little bit more like control over what belt i had like when we're um i don't know when exactly that was but there is a time where i'm where i'm thinking in fact someone even told me maybe told someone who eventually told me that like oh yeah they're going to proactively a brown belt but Jaco's standing in the way.

Like, Jacko won't let it happen. Like the kind of dean was said like, okay. And Jaco was like, no. That's what someone told me. That might be a little bit of a, that might be a little bit of, I mean, the bottom line is we have a pretty. Actually, someone did tell me that exact thing. And I know who it is.

It doesn't matter. Pretty, pretty democratic promotional system here. Because we have so many black belts. Everybody knows different sides of people's games. So generally there'll be like a hey, what do you think? I mean for the lower belts it's sort of you know the individual black belt Instruct to be like hey I promoted this guy this guy but when it comes to black belt There's going to be some consensus. Yeah now I will say I am probably the biggest hurdle Yeah when it comes to black belt right because it's a big deal

So I'm not over here throwing out black belts on people and going yep yep good to go So, yeah, I mean, there were some times, you know, whether I was the only guy standing in the way, and part of it is just the whole dynamics of the situation, which is, you know, someone throws it out there, not like, hey, I think, but someone being like, hey, you think Echo's ready? My standard answer is going to be like, no, not ready. Probably like six months. Right. Probably pretty standard answer, whether that was you or whoever.

So, yeah, there's probably some facts. to me be in the road roadblock. Yeah. But not because, not because I was like, I don't want to give Echo his black belt. That wasn't it at all. It's like, I want Echo to be, to deserve his black belt. Yeah. Right.

That's what I always felt too. And you weren't ready. Yeah. Well, put simply, you had a specific standard that was in a, that was not a flimsy standard. That was like for the real deal. And so I figured that. And with varying levels and mixed emotions about that, because, you know, the immature side of me is like, like, man, just let it go, bro, you know? Like, well, you got to be just a hard ass all the time kind of attitude.

And then the other side is like, man, it's almost like logical where, man, who would you rather be like a medium or not so good black belt or like the best brown belt? Like who would you? As far as that kind of thinking goes in, it's like, man. I'd rather be the good brown belt, really, you know, because you're rolling around with your, like, everyone knows the black belt is not that good, you know, and you don't want to be that guy. It's fair if you think, if you're thinking like that, you know, so it's like, you know, I get it. I make sense. And then, of course, if you can get to the maturity level to think, well, when it, if it does happen, I'm going to be so happy that it happened this way. If you can get there, then it's like, okay, that'll make you feel better too. And that's again, if you're even focusing on that belt, that belt situation. So when I even thought about it and when I'd hear all this stuff that like, yeah, like these people want to like promote you, but then Jocko like doesn't, you know, kind of thing.

Then I'd be, then that when I think about it, it'd be like, I'd think to myself, yeah, I'd basically have to tap Jocko out. Like not even wants to like the kind like I'd have to I'd have to tap him out a few times for him to like consider giving. That's what I just figured. You just kind of got to that place in your mind. Yeah. Yeah. So that was it. And then so it's in a way, it's easy to get or it made it easier for me to not even focus on it anymore.

It's kind of like, did you tap out jocco? No, okay. Then let's move on kind of thing in your own mind, you know. But let's say, let's say I did tap you out, though. That would throw me right back into the downward spiral focusing on belts. So that's kind of the bad news. You're thinking like that. So eventually I came to the conclusion.

This is probably like leading up like the months or the year maybe leading up to it is like Jocco might give me a black belt. when he's on his deathbed and we're done with this life or he's done with this life. Hopefully I don't dive you for him and he'll be like, oh, by the way, and boom, I have a black ball and

I for real had that thought. Like, whatever. And I was like, so you went from like, okay, he's holding up for a little while to, okay, I got to tap him out before he's going to give it to me. Okay, so he's just I'm never going to get it. Never. Yeah. And keep in mind, I'm not thinking this every single day. I'm saying when I did

Think about that or when people would be like hey when you're getting your bro or your black belt or whatever Those are the thoughts that was going my mind. You know I this was years ago I had a conversation with James Nielsen About this because I forget who we were looking at promoting to black belt But I was like yeah, you know maybe in like six months and then they were like you know James was like bro He's good or she's good And I was like yeah, I think I said like hey that person's never even passed my guard before right you know You know, it might have even been about you, but I don't think it was. I think it was an earlier black belt. I think it was maybe like Craig or someone in that group and James is like, hey, we're much better than we were when we got our black belts, which is so, you know, I got my black belt a long time ago, right? 2005.

Right. Right. So that's like, what, 14 years ago? So 14 years ago. So 14 years ago. go I've had my black belt for 14 years so how much better I've done so much training I've done more training as a black belt than I did without a black belt for sure and high-level training so you can't think oh I can't compare you because I don't I mean the same thing right if I held the standard of you of like well echoes never tap me out so I'm never giving I'm giving this black belt when he taps him up that's an unfair standard because I'm way better than I was 14 years ago when I got my black belt.

So that's not a fair standard. So yeah, that's, that's not a good way to do it. But it's not apples to apples though in that way because like there are certain people where it's like, like Andy for example, his skill rose so fast that, wait,

wait, I mean, did he, has he ever tapped you out before he got his black belt? I think he did. I think he got me, I think he got me like one time. But I think it was like as a purple belt and it had no influence on a black belt

Oh, okay It just seemed like with Andy and whether this was the case right It just seems like this could be a possibility in this type of equation where They rise so fast and they get so good so fast That it's like bro like I have no choice but to give this guy a black belt Sure, he's straight up he's tapping me out and I've been a black belt for 15 years You know it's kind of like that kind of attitude but Yeah, so it's not like an apples to apples to a street in that way, I guess.

But it's true, though. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. So I couldn't, I couldn't be like, oh, well, I'm just going to have to wait until Echo taps me out to get his buckpull. Because when is that going to happen, right? Could it happen today? Sure. It could happen today.

But you might not tap me out for another two years, right? I mean, like, that's the reality of the situation. You might tap me out tonight, right? I make a mistake, you get a good move, it can happen. But it might take a long time. I mean, there's people that have never tapped me out. And, you know, it just happens. Right.

Like, it doesn't mean that they're not worthy of, you know. Exactly. Doesn't matter. It doesn't mean that. So it's one of those things where I had to kind of recognize that, you know, we're better now than we were then. But to counter that argument, everyone's better now than we were then. So probably a good purple belt right now Would be able to beat me as a black belt

14 years ago Right a modern purple belt A modern purple like do you watch the worlds? Did you I mean you watch the kids at the worlds? The the purple belts at the worlds are savages Yes, right? When you compare them especially to a A black belt from 14 years ago 14 years ago.

The game has evolved a lot Yeah But so you were not expecting it all When we were able to do that You know I so what I did was I ran it Ran it because you were ready And I was like okay You know that goes

That goes good to go You should be having his black pot I will watch you roll That's another thing I would evaluate Is how you roll with other people Not just with me Because that's not fair either Right

Because how does your game match up with me Not very well Not the best way You know And I would watch you roll With someone that's good With me and I'm like you're doing better against that person. So I got you know, it's the same thing with everyone like you watch them rolling you got ah

You know you should you're killing this person or you're killing that person And even though you're not killing me that person's given me a hard time. So therefore it's just your game doesn't match well with with me Which doesn't mean that you're not Ready just means it's a bad matchup. Yeah, that's yeah. It's not linear like that for sure So yeah, so yeah, so It was awesome to have that go down. I know it was a long haul. We're not into making stuff easy.

No, sir, you're not. Okay, so what's the future hold for Echo Charles at this time? Oh, man, for what? For Jiu-Jitsu, the same? I feel like it's like, so jit, and thinking back on it, and I kind of had these feelings even kind of coming up for 14 years, where White Belt, you're just like a toddler, kindergarten. you know, kind of, you know, and then you get through blue belt and purple belt, you're like, you know, elementary, junior high, high school. And then, uh, brown belt is kind of like college. You know, you sort of feel like you're an adult and you're in there. You can do some good things, you know, have an impact on the world in college. Talk about in college. And then, but you're just learning. It's, you should be learning in there. And then, um, then you get black belt is like you graduated from college. Now you got to go function in the world.

real world now, you know? So it's like, man, in a way, people say, oh, jujitsu just begins at Black Belt. And yeah, in that way, it totally does. And that's not to mention all the little superficial things that kind of come good and bad, by the way, that come with it. Like, when you, when you're a Black Belt, okay, so if you're not a Black Belt and you tap out a black belt, that's a good feeling. You know, it's like one of those little things in your mind that you're like, I tapped out a black belt before, you know, kind of thing. So now you have that kind of target on your back if you want to put it that way. You're going to give other people that good feeling.

Yes, you're a target for that. So people, you can tell people's attitude when they roll with you is a little bit different. Well, it might be an illusion, but I feel like it's different, like physically. And then that's not to mention, like, you know, the stuff that maybe the other black belts might have. Like, ooh, that could black belt. Like, I don't know if it's them expecting me to like, I'm a black belt now, so I'm going to put it on you or what. But every once in a while I'll feel a little something like. Oh, you seem like this role means a little bit more now than it does before.

It's like I get that feeling sometimes. I'm not all the time, but there's that. But yeah, like how we were talking yesterday or whatever, it's like it doesn't really change anything. You know, like just because my belt happens to be a different color. It's like you're as good as you are. That doesn't make your jitza game. No, sir, it does not. But the future, yeah, no, I just keep training, you know, I guess.

I mean, in most ways, I feel like the pressure is sort of off. And more so than it's off, it's more like I don't, I'm not susceptible to that, that wacky way of thinking like, oh, when am I going to get promoted? Oh, did I, did, did I perform well? So Dean and Jocco saw, you know. The pressure that I feel, which is a good pressure is like, when you're a black belt, man, you got to maintain. Yeah.

You got to maintain. You got to maintain. You don't want to be wrong. You don't want to put a black belt on. And not represent. And not have the skills, man. 100%. Now, look, you're not going to win every time.

Like, there's people that are training more than you and you're doing stuff. And it's like, yeah. But you should have black belt level skills. Yeah. Period. End the story. Yeah.

Period. End of story. And I think that that makes it in, I guess it depends on what you mean, but I, I think that makes it easier for you. Like how you say it's good pressure. It's like, it's not even, it's more of like a, it's like, it's like, it's like a cool little push, you know, like, it's almost like, you know, these celebrities or whatever, like an actor or something, right?

When he has to play Wolverine, so he has to work out, you know? It's like, right, you got to be Wolverine on this movie, so work out. He's like, okay, of course, you know, kind of thing. Rather than, let's say you didn't have the movie, but you still got to work out. You know, it's kind of different. So, yeah, like training more and maintaining kind of the, you know, the standard or whatever. I feel like it's, like, easier. Akbar.

Yes, Akbar? For those you that don't know Akbar, he's his awesome fighter and crazy Jiu-Jitsu. He was in, he was, you know, he fought in the UFC. Never really, you know, he never performed to the level of his capability, unfortunately. You know, he's just incredibly skilled and he just didn't put it together right. You know, circumstances, things happened, you know, his opponents did things that were good. You know, it's like that's the way it is. But he did pretty good.

Oh, yeah, he did great. He did great. He did great. He had some good stuff. Oh, yeah. He's, but anyways, he's awesome to train with. But, like, I always had a rule with him. We had a rule with each other.

If you want, if you want to train, we're going to train. Like, so there's no, because both of us kind of know it's going to be a, it's going to be a crushing role. It's going to be, it's going to be gnarly. And, you know, we had the, we had the rule. At first it was an unwritten rule. And then one day I just said it. I was like, hey, no matter what, do you want to roll, we're rolling. And he's like, hey, if you want to roll, we're rolling.

So he, but he just, he just like came, started training again. Yeah, yeah. He's so savage. Yeah. Freaking hard worker. Hey, when he rolls, he rolls. Oh yeah, he's going for it. He's going to bring it.

Yep. Yeah. He's going to bring it. And videos, you're going to start making some more videos? Yeah. You know, videos hard because like, especially now that videos are, I don't even know if I told you this fully, but like videos are so common now.

Yeah. That like back when I made the victory videos, it was like, yeah. You were ahead of your time. Way ahead. That's the thing. And looking at them now, you're like,

oh, that's part kind of cheesy, kind of funny, not fun, they're like cool, but it's like, you should post those on the, uh,

jocco podcast channel so people can watch them. Yeah. Okay. Um, but watching those videos now, like those videos would not make a mark right now. No, not to say,

because they're good or not, good or nothing like that. I'm just saying like videos are they're just so much everywhere. So it starts to become like a wash of just many, many millions of videos. So granted, sure, like there's you and all our people. They, they watch our videos regardless of what they are, whatever. No, I mean, not regardless, but like we do have an advantage as far as eyeballs as far as videos or people caring about the videos. To me, the ocean of videos, like it's hard to get people to care about videos so you kind of got to be selective I think so if I put like a bunch of videos out I don't want people to are people to be like oh cool and sort of get bored with them you know

so it's like you want to leave a mark yeah so I mean it causes me to be a little bit apprehensive with like just flooding you know the place with videos the cool thing is there's people making all kinds of videos anyways with us and them yeah so yeah they're out there Yeah, but yeah, I don't know, it's weird. But keep in mind, too, though, I'm like the opposite of you in this way where I'm like, like, way more like hesitant. Like I'm most worried about that, you know, probably to the point where I shouldn't be worried about that quite yet. I don't know. We'll make some videos about that.

Cool. Right on. Def course. Awesome. Anything else, man? That's it. Thank you. Thank you for giving us your history.

Yeah, man. It's actually seems like a good place to. To wrap it up, people have been asking for a while for some more echo channels. They got it. They kind of get it on the grounded podcast too, the other podcast that we have. Yeah, yeah, a little bit. It's, yeah, you, yeah, it's a little bit more rep, and then again, I don't know, sometimes in the support part, it's kind of. This podcast?

Yeah, yeah, it's like representative of kind of back, like, you know, okay, if we're done training or something, right? And, well, I don't know, me or Greg or somebody brings something up, like some subject, some topic, some question for you or each other, whatever. And you start talking about it. And then I start talking about it. And you're talking trash to me, like, you know, like all, just that whole thing or whatever. It's a little more casual conversation. Yeah. The grounded kind of is more skewed, like, in that regard.

Well, check. Well, speaking of conversations, I'm going to be having some live conversations with people. Now, you're going to come to some of the shows. not sure which ones but we're even though um as people have pointed out i told everyone that you know echelon front is not a rock band and we're not going on tour yeah well i am going on it's not echelon front it's just me and i am going to multiple cities so i guess that does make it a tour live gigs january 6th in dc january 11th in austin which was the first one that sold out January 16th in New York January 20th in LA January 27th in Seattle and January 28th in

SF so at those gigs if you're wondering what I am going to do I am going to talk I'm going to dive into some subjects I am going to do some Q&A from the crowd live which is enjoy for me and I'm just going to go on some subjects. The only, I've only done one live event from that that would be closest and that was the live podcast that we did in New York City number 160 and this isn't gonna be a podcast and I'm not gonna, well we might turn these into podcasts. We might take a compilation of some of the questions or take a compilation of some of the things that I cover and make them into a podcast and But not all of it will be in a podcast and I'm don't the reason that I didn't want to do a podcast is I don't want to put any framework around this I want to be able to really just go and get after it with no no framework and just be able to get after it hard and I I know that's I have no real other way of saying it that's that's what I want to do is I want to go hard on these on these events and

with no framework and make it happen. So that's what I'm doing. Go to joccolive.com if you want to come to those. And echo, so you've been talking today about kind of some of the things that you've done to improve your life, get yourself, we'll say on a tighter,

a tighter sort of spance of the path. Sure. And there's good ways to do. do this in life? Yes. And not to mention, you can do that while you're supporting this podcast.

Yeah. If you want to. It's true. You can support yourself for sure. We're highly recommended. Yes. You can support the podcast too if you want to. Up to you. All good. Yeah. Because this podcast doesn't start off with 12 minutes of advertisements.

No, it does not. And we're not beholden to all Sponsors. But you get to say it like that, well. Because. That's just how I dig it.

Because we're not, we don't, we don't actually have sponsors. And you can press stop right now because you know what we're going to talk about. We're talking about staying on the path, representing while we're on the path, tips and I don't say tricks, because there's no trick. Yeah. No trick. We'll say guidelines to maybe help you along the way. Help everyone along the way.

Check. Help you, your husband or wife. Kids. everything the whole gig I like it first thing you can do jiu jiu jitzu talked about it a little bit today a little bit life-changing activity by the way you ever think about who you'd be without if you didn't do jiu jih T I would I've told you this I've told everyone this because I've done been in on this podcast and the thread that connected things for me was jiu jitsu now what's interesting is you did jiu jihitsu you didn't have the other pieces jih Tudu had you didn't have the other

pieces but jih Tijitsu allowed once you saw the other pieces it's like oh there's the thread there's how these things connect. For me, I had the other pieces, no jiu-jitsu, no connection. Got jiu-git-sue, got connection. You were the opposite. Had jih-jitsu, no other pieces? Oh, cool. Got the other pieces.

Now I see the connection. Interesting. So we want to do jiu-jitsu. We do. Without jiu-jitsu jocco ceases to exist. Ceases to exist. As we know it. Do you know that in a seal platoon, there is a pecking order?

That makes sense, too. That pecking order. straight up it's based on like hey who's going to win in a fight that's the way it is that makes sense that's the way it is

and you know what that is not only in a seal platoon there's just like that underlying current so what's nice is if you know jihitsu you're gonna move up

in that pecking order a little bit that is true that's interesting how you put that into words that way I agree with that that's true and it applies to a lot of situations that in a way I almost don't even want to say them but we kind of already know you know that it that

pecking order structure hierarchy whatever that let's just say it exists all right and yes jiu jitza helps you in that I'm not saying that's the main benefit what's cool about a seal platoon the reason I can start by saying a seal ptoon is because in a seal ptoon that pecking order is not always theoretical so there's times you get some van fights right that's going to happen right there's gonna be a van brawl and and all of a sudden the pecking order is revealed yeah yeah and so you feel it but then when you get to see it you go yeah I was right there's a little those little pecking order here yeah it has nothing to do with your rank yeah it's like here's what it is and so when you see it when you see it in the in the under current in the under beneath the surface when you kind of think it's

there in a seal-patoon and then it gets revealed and you're like oh yeah it was there then you see it everywhere and you go oh yeah it's over there too oh yeah it's over there too you can just see it and it's a real thing so why not elevate yourself elevate yourself yeah on that little hierarchy a little bit with some jih Tzu doesn't mean you're running around choking people out nope but you can you can if you want to yeah well you know yeah so when you're doing jit too you need a gig get an origin this is the thing people are going to hear that right there they'll replay that and say you know someone's going to go oh yeah I see what this is this is like a macho bully thing right it's like Hey, I'm sorry to break the news to you.

This is a reality. Yeah. This is a reality. Yeah. And that's a good point where like, yeah, I think that when you think about it, yeah, I think that someone could come to, could get, I don't want to say triggered. I'm not going to use the word triggered, but someone could get moved into thinking that. Yeah.

But whether that's the case or not, it's like you can say that about anything. This is the thing. I'm not sitting here saying, I'm not sitting here saying, oh, well, this is what it should be like or this is what,

this is how things have turned out or this is good or this is bad. I'm not saying any of those things. I'm just telling you what it is. Factually. Factually. This is just what it is. Well,

factually, that applies to everything in life. Like, okay, you know, you, and hey, check this out. Just by the way,

you can be the best fighter in a seal platoon. And everyone can hate you. Like you can, that doesn't mean your good operator, doesn't mean anything. Well, I'm just saying it's there.

And it's one of the many little, it's one of the many things that are being judged. Yes. One of the, it's one of the many things that are being judged. It's one of the many games that are being played. It's one of the many little hierarchies that are existing. So why not elevate yourself in that game?

That's my question. The reason to not elevate, there are no good reasons to not elevate. Because when you elevate yourself in that game, it actually will elevate you in other games in your life. So train jiu-jitsu people. This isn't, by the way, this isn't 1995. When I started jih-tzu, and you had to,

you were lucky if there was a jih Tzu school somewhere around you. This is America in 2020, and there are jih Tijuana everywhere. Or you can go online and you can go to YouTube for free and watch J-Jitsu and get some of your friends to roll around on the carpet. And you can learn some jih Tzu. Learn some jih Tzu. Get yourself.

an orange and ghee. Yep. Because you're going to need one for the jitter. Yeah. Yeah, it was funny because, you know, I don't train ghee as much, right? So it's been a while when we're involved in the promotion of Andy Burke to get his first degree. First degree. Degree on his black belt.

On the black belt. The black belt. Yes. You know, I put back on the rift. Gee, let's face it. When I grabbed, I came out with my Rift on and I said, this is the nicest thing. When you put it on, it's a completely different scenario that's just going on. So good.

I kind of felt, and I'm admitting this to you and whoever's listening because we're real close like that. And I trust you guys a lot. But I'm going to admit this, I felt a little bit like elevated, like kind of better than everyone. You know what I'm saying? Just in a small way because of that. I mean, yeah. You know what you have to do? Pete

The folks That made this gie You have to give like legitimately say yes, you elevated the game This is a game changer This is not normal This isn't like this isn't like hey we took a sports car and we put racing stripes on it Yeah, yeah This isn't like hey we took a sports car and we put rims on it

This is you're driving a sports car I'm flying by you in a raptor in an F-22 Raptor. Yeah. So. Yeah. Very, very good.

So yeah, get them. OriginMane. com, that's where you get them. It's where you get them. Multitude of options, by the way,

including rash guards when you do no ghee, which I think is important. They're both important. Right now I'm prefering no ghee. Well, then again, I don't know. After last night,

like, I kind of want Gina. I saw you, wait, did you sweep Greg Train? Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I saw that. Yeah. I saw the roll sweep. I was like, Oh, Because Greg Jane's hard to sweep. Yes.

You got that rassling background. Yeah. But you tied up that hand a little bit. Over he went. Yeah. Oh, with that ghee. You go in phases, right? No ghee.

But yeah, so if you're doing no geese, boom, rash guards as well, all available. OriginMaine.com. They also have jeans. Speaking of elevating the game. Yes, sir. I'm going to tell you right now, get some origin genes. And I will say this. The lightweight jeans, which are called Delta 68.

Those are possibly the best leg coverings that exist. And I have to call them leg covering because you can include all kinds of things. Right. We could be a kilt that covers your legs, right? We could be a wetsuit bottom that could cover your legs. You know, we could be over. There's all kinds of things that can cover your legs. So I'm putting all leg covering, all leg covering in the world.

And I'm saying Delta 68 origin genes are the best things you can cover your legs with the world is ever known straight up all right that's bold I know because technically and not to go too deep into it but whatever so technically you know when you talk about wet suit bottoms kilts all these other things those are like circumstantial like you know there's for certain scenarios right like especially well when you talk about wetsuits or spats or something like this so you're saying at the end of the day net net as they say I don't I don't really like the expression net net net but whatever net net net meaning under the circumstances that you wear a wet suit bottom versus jeans under the circumstances you'd ever wear jeans or the like.

Jeans best 100% across the board. What I just said is what I meant. Overall in the world, which this is 2020. And I'm saying of everything that's been invented to put on your legs, this is the best thing that's been invented. Delta 68. Now the heavyweight jeans awesome too and they're running that close second But my legs don't get cold So I don't need that little extra plus I live in Southern California

Yeah, but that's true though but Delta 68 That's the one yeah, but heavyweight the red they're not heavy weight they're just normal genes They're normal genes and they're awesome too But they're in second place Yeah man so I don't you know for Pete they're in first place what the heavy ones yeah he's up in Maine so yeah he's up in Maine he gets that little bit if he's in Southern California you might have a different opinion yeah I'm gonna I'll be it doesn't matter to me because my legs don't get cold

so it's not a factor so there you go there you also have supplements there by the way if you knew that oh wait all the stuff's made in America did I mention that the it's like the little tiniest little tagline made in America actually the huge factor huge yeah all the building the materials are made in America. That's how made in America this made in America stuff is. Oh wait. We're going to bring stuff in from other countries. No, no, no, no, no. We're going to grow it here. American hands. Yeah. American hands. American economy. Everything made in America. So yeah, also, yeah, joggers, you know, sweat stuff, good stuff. Supplements, though, yes. Like I said, important supplements,

joint supplements. Right. You can have all the creatine, uh, mega mass, whatever in the world. If your joints are working, right? You might, you're just spinning your wheels. You're going to Not even spinning your wheels. Your wheels are locked up. Your wheels are locked up like your elbow or like your shoulder. No, don't allow that to happen. Get on the joint warfare, krill oil. Get yourself some discipline, go.

Multiple choices. You got a pill, right? A little go pill. You need that little, you're going into a meeting, you're getting ready to roll, whatever. You're doing something that needs a little extra cognitive boost. Boom, take one of those hitters. Yep

Get the go in a can Why? Because it's 244 in the afternoon You're been up early It was leg day You were up late You're feeling a little bit of a drag

Cool Crack that open And you're on fire Ready to destroy the world Dig it Also, milk protein Additional protein In the form of a

Lovely dessert Said it Yeah, good. There's some chocolate. Chocolate peanut butter. Is that heavily in the rotation? Heavily in the rotation. Somebody told me to mix strawberry and peanut butter.

Have you done that? Was that you that told me to do that? I have not done strawberry. Is that I can remember? Peanut butter and jelly sandwich? Yeah. I'm going to try it at some point. No.

Well, I think what I did was I had chocolate with. Yeah, I don't know. I don't remember. If I did, that was a long time ago. And my mind's not even on that right now. I remember mixing a banana with a strawberry. strawberry and that was something. Yeah, that's going to be good.

Yeah. Either way, it's all good. And, you know, some people, they prefer just the vanilla. My middle daughter is in college right now. And she, she sends me little videos or pictures. Sure. And she's, and what, you know, she sends me one that says,

literally a strawberry milkshake. There you go. So anyways, that's my daughter. Yeah. And that's, and she's, she's, in college. studying nutrition so she's studying yeah yeah stem so the world makes sense yeah wait stem yeah that's right tech science and you know that thing yeah yeah man cool's in there studying that nutrition so she's given me feedback it's good and

and you know feedback she gives me she's like surprised that the ingredients are good oh okay so you really get good and I'm like all telling you yeah yeah As if I didn't make it. Yeah, I know. She's surprised. That's what your kids, your kids think you're an idiot. I'm like, well, thank you, darling. So, very nice of you.

Also, Jock White Tea. If you like deadlifting, or if you don't like deadlifting, you probably don't like deadlifting because you can deadlift that much. Yeah. As soon as you can deadlift 8,000 pounds, you like it more. Oh, yeah, big time. Take it from me. But yeah, certified organic, too, by the way.

So, yeah, get that, all that. Orjumain.com. Also, jaco is a store. It's called Jokka. store. You can get jockey white tea at this store too, by the way. But, or should I say, and their shirts, if you want to represent discipline equals freedom, good. Good.

Good is a good one. That one is one that one that one's one that won't ever go away. You need that concept good for the rest of your life. Some people have gotten tattoos that just say good. And I understand. 100% understand. I dig it. It was a good move.

It was a good move. We also have hats, truckers hats. Beanie Beanie Hoodies Good stuff there Yeah very good So yeah

If you want to represent While you're on the path Jocco store.com Also subscribe If you haven't already On Stitcher in iTunes Google Play You know

Is it important to subscribe Hey you know what You be the judge Whatever you like But I think it's conducive To remaining on the path I think so Just subscribe

Boom click subscribe Boom You're in the game That's a good question. Is it a good idea? Is it important to subscribe? Subscribe to the podcast so you know that it's out. Don't forget that we also have the grounded podcast.

And we also have the Warrior Kid podcast, which there's four new episodes right before Christmas were uploaded. So check out the Warrior Kid podcast. And you can also get some Warrior Kid soap from Young Aden, who's making soap on his farm so that you can stay. clean. Very nice. Actually, that's good soap too, which I haven't mentioned in a while. It's not this decorative table piece. No, it's functional.

It's actual for real soap that you use. You know, it's funny. I watch my boy with it. Pretty good branding. From Aiden, right? We're not mad at the branding here. Like he wraps him in these little burlap things. Oh, yeah.

Let's go. It's legit. He's like, oh, yeah, this came from a farm. A kid made this, a kid that's super squared away. Yeah. It looks kind of rustic. You know how many, like, that's the reason I said branding in a funny way is because people talk about, hey, we need to work on our branding.

Yeah. You know what his branding is? Doing his job. Yeah, yeah. Making the stuff that works and functionally is able, he's able to produce. Yeah. That's what it is. And he gets it to you.

Boom. One shows up. Boom. Good job. Aiden. Keep it up. Yes, it is true. Yeah, I use that.

That's heavy. the rotation to both kinds jocco and trooper so what's the new the one that is coming out or the antibacterial yeah there's one that's coming out uh anti bacterial anti macrobreal microbial yeah microbial yeah microbial yeah it's anti that yeah and and it's got a really good uh name did i'm drawn to blank hit me with it again killer soap Hell yeah, killer. You know? Wait, killer, that's it.

Killer soap. All right. Yeah, yeah. Book it. Yeah. We're killing microbes. Yeah. We're killing fungus.

Yep. Good idea. We're at least making a hard environment for them to survive it. Yeah, yeah. It'd get difficult. Because killing it would take like chemicals that I'm not sure young Aiden could put into a soap. Yeah, yeah. We're not down with that.

We're putting this on our skin. So, yes. Makes sense. Also, YouTube. We do have a YouTube channel official. It's a good one. Video version. some excerpts on there varying lengths.

We'll just leave it at that. And, you know, some enhanced excerpts every once in a while too. It's good. It's cool YouTube if you want to, you know, if that's how you listen to the podcast or should I say watch it, we do have a YouTube channel. So, yeah. I would say subscribe now, but, man, YouTube, actually, yeah, you want to subscribe.

That seems like a good place to subscribe because then you have it in your, what it does, then YouTube's kind of telling you, A, when a new podcast comes out or a new video comes out, And B, it kind of involves that whole algorithm. So it's showing you like, oh, this video, here, you'll like this one. Right, right. Which seems smart. Yeah.

Because if you like the podcast, maybe you like some other thing that they figured out that other people are listening to. Right. Yeah. Not to mention ease of access as well. If you're like, hey, you know, if you want to revisit one or someone told you about like a video excerpt, it's like easy. You can kind of click on your little subscriptions or whatever rather than going through YouTube search. Let me see. Is that the one?

Is that the one? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Just subscribe. to YouTube. But if you really want to be in the game and get alerted, there's that bell thing. You can click on, click on the little bell, get alerted every time. Boom, you really want to be alerted.

Do that, man. Psychological warfare, another, another opportunity to stay on the path. Because sometimes you're going to slip off the path a little bit. You're going to think about slipping off the path. You're going to think that those donuts are looking good. No, press play on your MP3 phone. Player. Player.

Whichever. Whichever. And listen. to me telling you why you do not want that donut, why you want to go to the gym, why you want to get up in the morning, why you want to complete that problem, just a bunch of things that you can let slide.

Don't let it happen. Get psychological warfare for yourself. And if you need a visual representation, check out flipsidecanvas.com for art. There you go. To hang on your wall. Run by my brother Dakota Meyer. Also have some books,

leadership strategy, and tactics. it's coming out January 14th. So if you haven't ordered it, you best order it now. Otherwise, you're going to be stained for life. Stigmatized with a second a dish. And I'll meet you and I'll thank you.

But deep inside, we'll both know. Not just me. If it was just me, don't worry about it, right? But you're going to feel it too. You're going to know that you got yourself that second edition.

You're going to know that when you should have ordered, you hesitated at the moment of truth. Don't do it. Way the Warrior Kid Series. There's three of them, one, two, and three. Just awesome feedback from around the world on those books. So if you know a kid, you're around kids, you have kids, get your kids, get those kids, get these kids, get all kids, this book.

Donate it to your library. I wish I had this kiss. I wish I could gift this book to every kid in the world right now. I need your help. Make it happen. This book is just, look, it's not even my, it's not even my book. It's just everything I've learned from people throughout my whole life captured into this book. So kids need it.

Mikey and the Dragons, for the little little kids that are, that are, let's face it, When you're a kid, you're scared. The world is an imposing place. You need to learn how to overcome those fears. Mikey and the Dragons will teach you how to do that. But basically, I teach you how to do it too. Pay attention. The field manual, Displeakry Freedom Field Manual.

It's a new year. This is the book you want to get someone for the new year. January. They already fell off their new year's resolution. Get them the field manual. Discipline equals freedom field manual. Get some audio for yourself on iTunes, Amazon, music, Google Play, other MP3 platforms.

Get it there. And then, of course, extreme ownership and the dichotomy of leadership that I wrote with my brother Laif Babin, where you will learn the fundamental principles of leadership. And then we also have echelon front, which is our leadership consulting company where we solve problems through leadership.

If you want me or someone from the Eschelon Front team to come and talk to your company, to come and work with your company, go to echelonfront.com. We also have EF online, which is, look, leadership is a really complex. There is a thing. And yet it's simple. So how do you get information to people? Look, some people can read. I get it.

Some people can grasp information from reading, but not everyone does. Sure, you can get everyone on your team. Get them extreme ownership. Get them the leadership strategy and tactics. Get them the dichotomy of leadership. That's awesome. Some people aren't going to absorb it that way. And even if they do absorb it that way, they need repetition.

They need to see it again from a different angle. They need to actually practice it. Go to eFonline.com. Where you get repetition, you get to see different angles, and you get to practice leadership situations. Interactive. EFonline.com. If you want to come to a leadership event with us, go to. extreme ownership.com. This is a leadership event we do. We are doing it in 2020. We're doing it in

Orlando. We're doing it in Dallas and we're doing it in Phoenix. So if you want to come, keep checking extreme ownership.com for details there. All of these events have sold out and these are going to sell out too. So get in on it early. And last, we have EF overall. watch an EF Legion where we are taking leaders from every level of the military and placing them into civilian companies so that they can use those leadership skills that they have. They can learn that industry specifics when they show up. That's no factor. Military people are trainable, but these are folks that understand the principles of extreme

ownership and the dichotomy leadership and the laws of combat and they will help you and your company go to EF overwatch. or eF legion.com and then if you still want to hear more from echo Charles and me well we are available on the interwebs on Twitter on Instagram and on love us she echo is at echo Charles and I am at Jaco Wilkins once again Thank you to Echo Charles for pressing record. But more important, thank you for being humble and for having my back and supporting this podcast. You do everything for the podcast except for the little part that I do.

So everything on the backside is awesome. And I appreciate you covering all that so I can do my little piece up front. And on top of that, the podcast would not be possible without everyone that is listening, supporting it. So everyone that's listening and spreading the words, spreading the word about the podcast and telling your friends to listen and getting a DefCore t-shirt or an origin ghee or a pair of Delta 68 jeans. It's all of you that make this podcast possible. So thank you for your support. And of course this podcast is also possibly because of the sacred freedom that we enjoy, which is provided by the soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marine who sacrifice their freedom

and sometimes their lives for our freedom and our lives. So thanks to all of you and to our police and law enforcement and firefighters and paramedics and EMTs and dispatchers and correctional officers and Border Patrol and Secret Service and all first responders. We are also here and able to do this podcast because of what you do. So thanks to all of you for your service and to everyone else out there. Just remember that it is a hard path in Jiu-Jitsu and in life. And there are ups and downs and you will get injured and you will get beat down and you will get tested.

And those hard days will go on and on and on. But if you impose discipline in your life, if you play the long game and think strategic, and if you stay on the path and keep moving forward, you will end up achieving what you want to achieve. That will happen. So put on that ghee. Step on to the mats of justice in jujitsu and in life and keep getting after it.

And until next time, this is Echo Charles and Jocco. Out.