Jocko Podcast - 229: Pick a Plan and GET AFTER IT. Any Good Plan Executed Boldly is Better Than Indecision. General Omar Bradley

Episode Date: May 13, 2020

0:00: 00 - Opening 0:10:59 - General Omar Bradley's take on Leadership. 1:49:15 - Final thoughts and take-aways. 1:50:42 - How to stay on THE PATH. 2:06:14 - Closing GratitudeSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 229 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. Leadership means firmness, not harshness or bullying. Understanding, not weakness. Justice, not irresponsible freedom. Humanness, not intolerance. Generosity, not selfishness.

pride, not egotism. So, a little quote for you, kick things off. This is coming, I ran across it the other day. And as I ran across it, I saw some of, a little bit of the dichotomy of leadership in there. And it just caught my attention. And it's a quote from General Omar Bradley, a general with a good amount of name recognition.

But a general who, kind of flew under the radar sometimes because he was competing with some some big names you know he's competing with General Pat and he's competing with General Eisenhower he's competing with General Montgomery so he kind of flew under the radar sometimes

even though he does have the Bradley fighting vehicle named after him which is an awesome machine but he absolutely was a well-regarded general in his own right born in 1893 in Randolph County, Missouri, worked as a boiler maker, figured out he could get a free education by going to West Point. So he went to West Point, graduated in 1915, same year as Eisenhower, by the way. He was a really good athlete.

Baseball star could have played pro ball, but chose to be in the Army, chose to go and do his commitment to the Army. So 1915, you're probably thinking World War I, WWI. Well, he actually didn't go to World War I. He didn't go and fight in World War I. There were mining disputes in the unions in the mines up in Montana, and they had to activate some army units to send them up there to guard the mines. And that's what he did. He did that for a little while.

And then he did go to a unit that was getting. ready to deploy to World War I. The Spanish flu came, which everyone seems to know about the Spanish flu now. And then it was the armistice, and he didn't deploy. So he didn't get any combat action in World War I. Thought that that might hurt his career. But he stayed in anyways. Ended up teaching tactics at the infantry school.

Fast forward through the peace years, made general in 1942, assigned the 82. assigned the 82nd Division, then the 28th National Guard Division eventually worked under General Patton as the deputy in charge of Second Corps and then took it over himself, led the campaigns in Tunisia and Sicily. Ike Eisenhower selected Bradley to command the first army

during Operation Overlord D-Day. He commanded the most troops of any general, U.S. general in history when he took command of the 12th Army Group, 1.3 million troops. Little decentralized command. Better come into play right there. Continue with all those troops

to push through Europe until the fall of Germany. We covered Ernie Pyle on this podcast, podcast number 39. His book, Brave Men. It was the heavies. One of my favorite lines. Ernie Pyle nicknamed him the GI General because he was kind of

a layback, down-to-earth guy, didn't make a spectacle of himself. After the war, he ran the VA for a while, the Veterans Administration, first ever chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the Korean War, retired in 1953 after 38 years of service. I found a, the internet is amazing. Yes, sir, I agree. I found an evaluation. You know, we talk about the evaluations, the evaluation, the Marine Corps evaluation,

the Navy evaluation. I found an evaluation of Bradley written by General Patton. It's pretty cool because it shows what type of a person Patton was just in the way he wrote this thing. So it says subject efficiency report through commanding general NATO USA APO 534 to adjutant general war department, Washington, D.C. name and grade of general officer reported on Omar f bradley lieutenant general period covered one july 1943 to eight september 1943 two months and eight days duties performed commanding general two core one july 1943 to eight september 19 something unclear manner of performance superior physical activity superior physical endurance superior knowledge of

of his profession, superior. For what command or duty would you specifically recommend him? An army. And then what opportunities have you had for observing him during period covered? Intimate daily contact. Does he render a willing and generous support to plans of superiors regardless of personal views in the matter? Yes.

which is a very interesting topic to cover. I mean, you think about what they've got in there, physical duty, knowledge of his profession, what job would you recommend? And then does he give generous supports to plans of superiors,

regardless of his personal views in the matter? So this guy's going to back you up. The answer there is yes. And 10, of all general officers of his grade, personally known to you, what number would you give him on this list and how many comprise your list?

And Patton's answer is, number one, I know all of them. Further remarks deemed necessary? None. Signed G.S. Patton Jr., Lieutenant General, U.S. Army Commanding. So that's a pretty awesome review. The interesting thing is, if you know anything about the history of Bradley and Patton, there's some interesting dynamics there. First of all, they had very different personalities.

Patton was, you know, flashy and ego-driven in a lot of ways, and Bradley was not. And there's some quotes I pulled from Patton's journal, journals about Bradley. So it's interesting that he can have these, write him that glowing, like, evaluation about him to try and get him promoted. but at the same time, here are some things he said about him.

Bradley is too conservative. He wants to wait until we can all jump into the fight together, by which time half our men will be, we'll have the flu or trench foot. I wish he had a little more daring. Another one. Bradley is a good officer, but he utterly lacks it.

Too bad. The it factor. Echo Charles. Next one. Bradley is a man of great mediocrity. On the other hand, he has many attributes which are considered desirable in a general. He wears glasses, which I have no idea. I have no idea why that's cool to be a general.

He wears glasses. He has a strong jaw. He talks profoundly and says little. And he is a shooting companion of our present chief of staff, General Marshall. Also, he is a loyal man. I consider him to be among our better generals. Another quote. We had quite a long talk, and I told Bradley a lot of my best ideas to tell General Marshall.

I suppose I should have kept them to myself, but I am not built that way. The sooner they are put into effect, the better it will be for our army. So here we see a little planting the seed, you know, leading up the chain of command right there. And then he says, it was really a great plan, wholly my own. And I made Bradley believe that he thought of it. that's exactly what I talk about plant the seed let them think it's your own idea but because it's patting

because he's got a little bit of that ego that kicks in he also wrote this I do not wish any more of my ideas to be used without credit to me which is what happens when I give them orally to Bradley how's that for short-sighted that's sad to read

a little bit sad to read Yes, sir. Another one where ego gets the best of Patton. He says Courtney Hodges and Omar Bradley both received a distinguished service medal for their unsuccessful defense of the bulge. I did not receive one for successfully defending it. So clearly these guys had an interesting relationship. General Bradley also wrote a book, and it's from what I gather, his aide to camp did most of the writing,

which I'm not saying that's a horrible thing because writing is a mechanical thing that you have to do. And if you can get someone to catch your ideas and do it well, then it's fine. But the book was released in 1951. It's called a soldier's story. It's 600-page book.

Details his experience in the Army, obviously, especially in World War II. And I'm sure we're going to cover that book at some point. We're not doing it today. But, you know, when I, I, after I read that quote about him and, you know, just talking about leadership and kind of the dichotomies that are there, I remember this short piece that I have. And I got a bunch of these little short things in a certain file folder in my computer. And they're old, too.

I've been collecting them for a long time. What's the name of the file? It's books and PDFs. I have this thing, books and PDFs that I just download. I save them into books and PDFs. I got a lot of them. We've covered a bunch of them, too, on this podcast. So I remembered this one of his, and it is called Leadership.

General of the Army, Omar and Bradley, this article's first published in a winter 1972 issue of parameters, which is the magazine of the U.S. Army War College. An editor's note, General to the Army, Omar and Bradley visited Carlisle Barracks on 7 to 8, October 1971 to meet with members of the 12th Army Group Association. While he was at Carlisle, he addressed the Army War College faculty and students on the subject of leadership. His address contained observations that were gleaned during a long and significant career. A careful reading of his remarks gives us some insight to the qualities that made General

Bradley the great soldier and human being that he is. General Bradley's thesis is that leadership is an intangible that involves a constant interplay between the leader and the lead. When this interplay is successful, we have the ingredients for great accomplishment. So there you go. Kicking into it. All of you here this evening are leaders. I am pleased to meet you.

What you do may well dignify the past, explain today, and secure for all of us tomorrow. Perhaps I can touch upon a few factors that will underscore the value of good Leadership. Leadership is an intangible. No weapon, no impersonal piece of machinery ever designed can take its place. It's an interesting idea that leadership is intangible. Have you ever heard that expression that somebody asked for the definition of pornography and the Supreme Court Justice said, I can't give you a definition, but I know it when I see it, something like that. It's a weird thing, Right? Because leadership, if you're going to define it specifically, it's kind of the same answer, right? Look, I can't tell you exactly what it is, but I know it when I see it.

And you see different people do it differently. Yeah. And you can see two different people say or do the same thing, but be like, hey, this guy's leading and this guy's sort of not. You know, he's doing something else, you know? Yeah. Yeah. There's, in leadership strategy and tactics, I give someone talking about pride. And the same sentence about pride depending on who is saying it and what context it is can be negative or positive.

Yeah. For instance, that guy's full of pride, right? Yeah. Or that guy's full of pride. You know what I mean? Like, that's the same sentence. Yeah. But it means two completely different things.

Yeah. So, continuing on. This is the age of the computer. By the way, this is 1971. And if you know how to program the machine, you can get quick and accurate answers. But how can you include leadership and morale, which is affected by leadership, into your programming? Let us never forget the great importance of this element, leadership. And while we use computers for certain answers, let us not try to fight a whole war or even a single battle without giving proper consideration to the element.

of leadership. Leadership is the most important thing on the battlefield. Your little calculator over there. We're going to be covering a podcast shortly about the creation of Top Gun. And same thing. There's some people that would do the calculations of this aircraft versus that aircraft

and think, well, this aircraft is superior aircraft, it will win. How many times is that wrong? What are they not calculated? are not calculating the human element. How many times have you watched a UFC fight where on paper everyone thought person A was going to win and person B wins?

Because the human element. They don't calculate it. So how can we expect to calculate what's going to happen in combat without trying to figure out what implication leadership has on it? Continuing on, another element to be considered is the man to be led. and with whose morale we are concerned. I am constantly reminded of this point by a cartoon

which hangs over my desk at home, which depicts an infantryman with his rifle across his knees as he sits behind a parapet. Above him is the list of the newest weapons science has devised, the newest weapons science has devised, and the soldier behind the parapet is saying, but they still haven't found out the substitute for me. So there's a human beings.

Of course, with this particular group of service personnel, I am considering leadership as it applies to a military unit. However, having been associated with industry for some time now, I find it difficult to completely separate the principles of military and industrial leadership. They have much in common. And he retired in 1953. This is 1971. He worked with some companies. I know he was the like the chairman of Bolova. Bulova, how do you say Bulova watch company?

B-U-L-O-V-A? Bulova. Yeah, Bolova. He was the chairman of that. So that's a big company. So he understood the same thing that we now know to be true.

And that's a strong statement. Did I say it? Yes, I did. We know to be true. I couldn't have told you this 10 years. The day I retired from the Navy, I couldn't have told you that military and civilian leadership are the same. I couldn't have answered that question.

didn't know it. I didn't know the answer. It wasn't until I started working with civilian companies that I said, oh, these are the same, the same principles employed in both situations. And that's what Omar Bradley is saying here. He says they have much in common. They have more than much. They have a lot in common.

I'd go so far as to say they have everything in common. But there's differences. But I'll tell you, the differences between leading an army platoon, leading a Marine Corps platoon, there's little differences there. Are the same differences between leading a gas station and a construction site? So going from one construction site to another concern,

there's little differences. I used to say that about seal platoons. Because the difference between a seal platoon and another seal platoon are the same differences that you find. There's just going to be differences in those situations. The principles don't change. The principles don't change leading a construction site. that principles don't change leading a manufacturing line.

The principles don't change leading a Girl Scout troop. Leadership is leadership. Moving on. In selecting a company in which to invest our savings, we often give primary consideration to the company with good leadership. In similar manner, a military unit is often judged by its leadership. Good leadership is essential to organized action where any group is involved. Now, if you were to dig down into this right here, I'm here to tell you, if you're going to invest in a company, the number one thing you should look at is what's the leadership like.

Because if they have a great product, groundbreaking product, but they have horrible leadership, it doesn't matter. Leadership should be the number one component you look at. When we work with investment groups, sometimes they're wanting us just to tell them, do an assessment. Make an assessment. What is this leadership pod like? What are these humans like? Are they good leaders? Do they have capabilities?

Do they have potential? Are they bad? Those are the questions. Continue on. The one who commands, be he a military officer or captain of industry, must project power, an energizing power which coordinates and marshals

the best efforts of his followers by supplying that certain something for which they look to him. Be it guidance, support, encouragement, example, or even new ideas and imagination. Projecting power. That's an interesting concept. And look, I'd love to tell you, well, you know, that's, you don't need to project it.

But if you dig a little bit deeper on that statement, it's fairly accurate. Projection of power. Yeah. Appear powerful. Just saying, hey, I got this. We can do this. You know what I mean? Yeah.

I guess it's a form of confidence. Yeah. Which he talks about later. but I think that that projection of power and an energizing power. Yes. That's what he's talking about, which coordinates and marshals the best efforts. You've seen this before, right?

Let's just look at a kind of a generic situation. You see a group. They're not really focused. They're not really making anything happened. And all of a sudden, the leader steps up, takes control, exhibits that power, and marshals those people to move in this.

same direction. That's what leadership is. Yeah. You watch American Beauty? You ever watch that movie? I have seen it, but I don't really remember it. It's actually pretty good. But there's a part, this guy, his name, what was his name? I forget his name, but he called himself the king of real estate. It's kind of an one-off character.

And he said to the lady, I forget her name, something, Burnham. Anyway, he says to the lady, call me crazy, but it's my philosophy that in order to be successful, one must project an image of success at all times.

Interesting. Super cheesy. Okay, man. I think... And let's think about that, right? If you project an image of success at all time, when are you projecting your vulnerability? When are you projecting your humility?

Yeah. Right? If you're just walking around by the... The Merck. Sure. Right? And you're rolling... Sure.

with the Rolex Mercedes Yes sir Okay I understand Rolling with the Merk and the Rolex The roll-in-s projecting success Yeah But I don't

I don't know I don't necessarily As a matter of fact I don't agree with that When I heard it I was like Probably you're just a poser That's all you're doing It was like basically it was because like He just broke up with his girl

And then the lady was like Oh I thought you guys were doing so well or whatever And then he was admitting that it was a lie. Essentially, yeah, he was like, basically I put on an image of success to be successful in my business. I don't know, whatever. I got a better idea. If you want to be successful, why don't you be humble? Why don't you step up and work hard?

There's a bunch of other better ways to be successful than pretending to be successful. I'm going to throw that out there right now. I'm going to agree. Continuing on. The test of a leader lies. in the reaction and response of his followers. That's straightforward. The reaction and response.

Look, if you're a leader and people don't react correctly, you're failing. He should not have to impose authority. Say it again. He should not have to impose authority. Bossiness in itself never made a leader. He must make his influence felt by existence. and the instilling of confidence in his followers.

The greatness of a leader is measured by the achievements of the lead. This is the ultimate test of his effectiveness. You know, I think he brushes up against a lot of stuff. And this is like my third time reading through this today. And I keep seeing little connections, right? I keep seeing little where he's brushing up against really important things and kind of talking about him, talking about him,

kind of passes through him, like mentions them. And some of them are perfect, you know? He should not have to be imposed authority, right? That's obvious. It's almost like he's uncomfortable saying it because he continues on by saying, he must make his influence felt by the example in instilling confidence in others.

See, the thing that I have a problem, well, I guess, I don't know, maybe you can help me. Insilling confidence is other, what does that mean, right? There's a little bit of a lack of explanation behind that. We know what it means.

Maybe this is why he says leadership is intangible. Because look, we say, hey, you want to instill confidence in your people. Great. Thank you. That goes without saying. How do we actually do it? Right? How do we actually do it?

How do you instill confidence in people? Oh, how about you give them something that they can handle? Okay, that's a good thing. How about we take our team and we go out and we accomplish a pretty simple straightforward objective and our confidence goes up a little bit and then we handle a more complicated one and we keep doing that and then we give subordinate leaders think right you see what I'm saying this idea of just you know making people confident in selling confidence in your followers great how do I do it and by the way that's leadership

strategy and tactics that is that is why I wrote leadership strategy and tactics because those questions right there I realized there was a gap between Hey, build a relationship with your boss. That's great, Jocko. How do I do it? How am I supposed to do that? I was on EF online the other day. And I said, I said, Jamie?

Because I was talking through someone. I said, I got the name. I got my next book. And she was like, oh, great. Because she's always mad because I'm doing too much. Yes. And I said, because we were talking to somebody about ego. I thought, oh, yeah, I'd give that personal little ego massage,

maneuver around, plant the seeds, all this. And I said, my next book is going to be called. what was it ancient techniques of ego massage therapy right because you could actually do that you could say hey here's the person that you're dealing with here's how you want to massage that ego here's another person here's another ancient technique of ego massage yeah dang that'd be actually a really good book I know good no I'm not even kidding because they you know you could tell someone even now like if they don't have the guidelines like a for real comprehensive you know instructional.

It's so easy to take that kind of stuff too far. You know, like, oh, just massage his ego. And you go massage ego, do it too much. And the guy's like, bro, this guy's kissing my ass right now. We're just trying to massage my ego. Because it's kind of part of ego massage, effective ego massage, them not really knowing, like, that you're doing it for the sake of you. For sure.

Yeah. For sure. If they know you're doing it, that doesn't really work as well. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Cool. I'm waiting for that book, too.

Yeah. Yeah. So I'll get working on it Get cracking Maybe it'll just be a little Maybe it'll just be a little short Little handbook A couple techniques

For the troops out there You know what I'll think of I'll think of other ancient techniques That need explanations And I'll put them all in Let's say there's four sections What do you mean ancient techniques I'm just saying that sounds cool

Yeah sounds cool Yes sir Yeah I probably could write a little book on that Just by watching you do certain stuff. Well, you know what you can do to help me is you go, I saw you do this, and then I can go into that exactly what I was doing.

And that would be helpful. Because you get to see that what's interesting for you is you see maneuvering happening. Yeah. On multiple different fronts. Yes. And I sit here and tell you, hey, this is what's happening over here with this company. This is what the move's going to be. Watch how it unfolds.

And you're like, okay. And then you watch and you go, okay. Makes sense. Yes. Yes. All right. continuing on. Too frequently we use the words leader and commander synonymously.

We should not forget that there are far more staff officers, staff officer assignments than there are command billets. And a good staff officer can and should display the same leadership as a commander. While it takes a good staff officer to initiate an effective plan, it requires a leader to ensure that the plan is properly executed. This is good stuff that we're about to dive into. That is why you and I have been taught that the work of collecting information, studying it, drawing a plan, and making a decision is 10% of the job.

Seeing the plan through is the other 90%. A well-trained officer is one who can serve effectively either as a staff officer or as a commander. So by a staff officer, they mean the guy that's coming up and helping coming up, put together the plan and going through the logistics of it all. that's the staff officer and then there's a person that makes it happen that executes it. That's the commander.

It's interesting to think this goes back to what we were talking about on the last podcast where I was saying look, you're your commander and you're your troops, right? You're both of those things. So you can come up with great ideas in your little head. Beautiful plans.

Amazing plans. Can you imagine how many people come up with plans? that are actually freaking awesome, but they never execute them. Think about that. That is a graveyard. A massive, infinite graveyard of incredibly good plans that never got to execute on.

The staff guy in their head, there's a nutsy. See, this is where the metaphor continues. Because you've got a staff guy in your head that's in there coming up with these little plans, right? Coming up with these great plans. Hey, if I start this workout, hey, if I start this business,

Hey, if I can produce this thing, they come up with the staff officers coming up with great plans. Super, good job. Unless that commander can get the troops in your head to execute it as no value whatsoever. And by the way, and we've talked about this, that idea by itself is zero value. Yeah.

Zero value. You come up with this great idea. Hey, Jocko, I thought of this new app. Right? Because everyone thinks of a new app every day. Yes, me do. Hey, Jack, go, I think of this new app. It's game changer.

Okay. Cool. How many of those things get executed? Yeah. Not many. So let me ask you this. What's your opinion on this? So let's say me and another person, right?

Let's say, okay, let's say somebody says, hey, I have this great idea and tells you, you know. And it's a good idea, actually. And he said, this is how I'm going to execute, you know. Whatever. Actually, there's so many different scenarios. But okay, this one, okay, here's it. Here's my plan. And in, it's a, I'm starting to worry about the execution of this very idea itself.

We watch this unfold. Let's see what's happening. And, okay, and then I don't have the capability to execute this plan at all. You know, there are other people who do, but it's just my idea. It's my idea. I don't know. I don't know anything about, you know, but let's say I have that idea. I tell you.

And then you're like, oh, yeah, good. Good idea. And then years go by and I never execute. I never call somebody up to help execute. You know, I'm just done. That was just my idea that I intended. It went into the graveyard. Then you say, that is a good idea.

I, unlike you, have the capability to actually execute most of this. And I know the other guy who can execute the rest. Meanwhile, me, I don't. I don't have any capability. And I don't know anyone. I'd have to go shopping for my and I simply didn't do it right let's say you say okay and you execute the plan and be successful in your new thing Right? Is that like a violation or how do you feel about that? Because you know that happens a lot right? Yeah, it definitely happens a lot and it paints the reality and and what's interesting you ever heard the term idea guy. Oh yes sir like oh that person's a good idea guy one ahead but it's kind of it's kind of a pejorative right? Oh that guy well That guy's an idea guy meaning like hey that guy that guy

I can't really make anything happening. You can sit around here and spout off good ideas. That's great. So funny. That's great. But you don't actually execute on any of them. Yeah. Which is just, what do I think should happen?

Quite honestly, I guess in a perfect world, that person that came up with the idea and didn't execute it, he's paying the price for not making it happen. And the price is you watch somebody else, you know, go and do well with your idea because you didn't execute it. Right. So he's going to think, let's. Let's say I'm the idea guy in this particular scenario and you're the guy who can actually make it happen. Usually the idea guy is going to be kind of salty because he's like, hey, I told you that the whole idea. You know, not how to do it, but just the idea like that was my idea, you know, like on Seinfeld. It was my idea for the cologne that smells like the beach.

Anyway, it's a thing. But usually that's why that guy's salty, right? Yeah, he's mad. Yeah, yeah, he's mad. But the reality is like, bro, not only did you not execute, like, I don't even know if you could. Really. Yeah. And there's a weird thing there because if you don't have, you said two things.

You don't have the capability of executing, which is a little bit different than not having the will to execute. Yeah. So this, what I meant was, you don't like, okay, so I get this. This whole scenario is actually like a real scenario that happens all the time. Back when I used to make websites, like I'd hear it all the time. Orra and my brother, Jade, he makes apps. So when you say, oh, got this cool idea for new app, oh, that's a real thing. Everybody's calling him like, hey, I got this idea for this app, right?

Meanwhile, they know nothing about what they're doing at all. Like, they're like, oh, wouldn't it be cool to have an app that can read people's minds? That's not a real one, but I'm just saying. Meanwhile, they have no idea about making apps, first off. They have no idea about mind reading, second off. And they have no idea about like anything else, you know? But they're like, that's a cool idea. Let me call the app guy, you know.

And then so most of the time it's like even if that were a good idea, which it's not. But even if it was, I don't need you for that to do it. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. And there's a weird thing there because there's also people that don't have any good ideas, but that are really good at execution. Yeah. So what I recommend you do is you form up your team where you have people that have ideas

and people that can execute those ideas. Yeah. So you compliment each other. You work with someone that can actually make things happen. I couldn't make this podcast. I didn't know how to press record. You know, I didn't know how to. I didn't know what piece of equipment we're going to need.

I couldn't execute it. I have an idea. Hey, I think we should do it. That's the exact same thing you're talking about right now. Now, I could have sat in my closet by myself going, I'm going to do a cool podcast about war and human nature and it'll be so good. I could sat there for five years with this idea And someone else would come out

Maybe I would have told somebody They would be like, I'm gonna execute on that What did I do? I actually said, oh, I don't have the capability To execute this by myself. Fine. Echo Charles, do you know how to make a podcast? Yes, I can figure it out. Cool, we're making a podcast. That's an example, right? I can't execute it by myself And it doesn't matter to me. I'm not caught up on the fact that

Because there's people that sit on ideas They won't tell me you better sign this NDA, right? I've signed so many NDAs for people to tell me their brilliant ideas. And I go, so you won't steal it. Yeah, so I won't steal it. And it's like, okay, cool.

Very few of them. I feel bad. People listening to this go, you signed an NDA. There's some good ideas out there, right? But a lot of them are, number one, they're real obvious. You know, I've had people hit me, well, hey, man, I'm already doing that.

Hey, that's in the works or whatever because it's just sorry. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know, but that's a classic example. Look, I know I can't execute? I'm not going to sit. You know how long I sat on the idea of having a podcast? Not very long. I want to have one who can help me execute this.

Echo Charles. Boom. Yeah. Yeah, man, I always, I kind of feel it's weird because when you think about it, let's say, I don't know, you're a lot more mature than most of us. Dude, I'm 48 years old. I'm not saying, I'm not saying, I'm saying your attitude, not your physical being. You know how I'm saying, even at 48 years old, you don't think of like, oh, this guy's mature.

He actually is just old. You know what I mean? You say someone that's 21. You go, oh, he's pretty, or actually like 17. Oh, he's a pretty mature kid, right? Oh, okay. Okay. I understand.

But the reason I'm saying is you understand because this, this immaturity versus maturity applies to it no matter what age. So let's say, all right, I'm going to use me. I'm not saying I'm like this. I'm not saying I'm not like this, but I'm going to use me as the example. Putting yourself on the report. I like it. Let's say that I'm like, hey, you know what it would be a great idea just in passing to like, I don't know, my friend or whatever. Let's say he's a surfer, surfboard shaper or something.

And maybe an engineer too, you know. And I'm like, oh, you're going to be a great idea for a surfboard, a little motor on there. I don't know, whatever. We'll just say a motor on there that does this and that. you know like just in passing like that's my cool idea first off not only do I not know anything about surfboard making

it's like I didn't really even mean like you should really do that and let's go into business I didn't mean anything like Tid just said it meanwhile it's stuck in the guy's head where he's like yeah I could totally do that and no one's doing that and he does it becomes massively successful right most of us

will have at least one percent of our little brain saying like, oh man, like that's my idea. Like I deserve part of it. And you know what? If you, if I was the surfboard shaper, mechanical engineer guy, and you gave me that idea and I was successful, I would give you reward. I would take care of you.

I'd be like, cool. I think that's, I think that's the right thing to do, actually. Yeah, I think so. But it would probably be out a different proportion than you think. Because people with ideas always think that they, they think that the idea is the hard part. Yeah, that's everything. The idea without an idea, there's nothing, right? Right.

Without an idea, there's nothing. However, they're both equally important. But the idea usually gets less in the investment world. Your good idea gets you like 10%. It doesn't get you 90%. A lot of people think their ideas should get them 90%. It doesn't get you 90%. It gets you 10%.

Get you 15%. Yeah, and under certain circumstances. Of course. I'm throwing it out there as kind of a generality. I agree with you. even 110%. You think I couldn't agree with you 10010%. I do.

I think the idea part of it is worth less. Because everyone, it's like, okay, okay, here's my idea. I'm saying it publicly, straight up. Here's my idea. A pill that cures cancer. Just cures it. Just saying, that's a good idea, right? See, you'll kind of blame that that is.

Like, okay. So now when freaking, look, and not only did a million trillion people, already have that idea as far as an idea goes like I have no capability of executing this maybe I could get like yeah well I think that's kind of a bad example well it's an extreme example no it's an extreme example it's so extreme that it doesn't make it doesn't make the point you need to think of something a little bit better well all these app ideas right are like kind of like that it's like you don't even most of us don't know even how apps work as far as making them Yeah, you know what else is interesting is a lot of times the first company that has an idea and invest in it and pushes it.

A lot of times they aren't the ones that are actually successful with that idea. It takes another someone to take it to the next level. The MP3 players, Apple didn't invent those. There was other companies that made MP3 players and then Apple came and made it into the iPod and it was super successful. So there's a lot of times where the idea phased just to get that thing launched. And then someone else looks over and goes, yeah, that's a pretty good idea. We're jumping on it. We're jumping in the game.

Yeah. Yeah. And that kind of goes back to what in a way. So you know back to what you said where it's like, okay, if you got an idea from somebody and then you actually executed the idea and made successful when they had no capability or intention, by the way. And you became massively successful when you would pay them or whatever. Reward them.

Reward them. I would be cool. But what if you didn't know the person? What if you heard the idea on like you're watching, I don't know, project runway or something? And you heard like one of the people say an idea just in passing to their friend on the show. You don't know them or nothing. I don't know. Do you contact them and be like, hey.

It depends on how successful I was. Massively. One billion dollars. Yeah, I'd try and contact that person. And be like, hey, I got this idea from you. Yeah, I think I would. Yeah. I think I would.

I'm pretty. That's what I'm saying. about that maturity, Brad. You're very mature. You're a very mature person. Trying to take care of people if, you know, if they deserve it and if you come up with a great idea, even though you did nothing to execute it. What if the idea. That kind of does bother me. Oh, yeah. Especially when they do it all the time. What if someone had the idea and forgive me for stringing this out, but I'm trying to see, I'm trying to identify your threshold. You see what if the idea was said by someone that you don't know in past.

and it was a joke. It wasn't even like a real idea like it was a joke like you're like Oh, let's we should invent a parachute that like can spring a motor and take you. I don't know something kind of ridiculous But when you thought about you're like wait wait wait wait that's not really I could actually do that and you did it Meanwhile they're totally joking in fact they were kind of mocking it then would you reward them you got the idea from them? I don't know I need more specifics on the scenario All right. But if people hit me with good ideas I will take care of them you know pretty straightforward all right all right going back to the book that was a rough I can recall a former vice president of one of the companies with which I am associated he would formulate

some good plans but never followed up to see that his plans got the expected results I knew he had served in World War II so out of curiosity I looked into the nature of his service and found that his entire period of service was was a staff officer. He had never had the advantage of a command job so his training was incomplete. Maybe if he had remained in the service longer, he would have developed his leadership qualities as well

and this man would still be with the company. So if you're not able to execute things, your idea, this is now, see now I'm starting to get mad because it does bother me when people just wanna throw out ideas and they don't push them to completion, that's unsat, that's unsat. See, and yeah, you, And Dave were talking about that.

Good deal, Dave. We're talking about that, too. It's like a sin, right? If you don't follow through and all this. So, and that is true, which kind of takes me back to what, like, what about the idea guy who's like, you stole my idea, right? It's like, it kind of makes that thing a little bit more angry, like, like, it makes you mad a little bit more when a person is like, hey, that was my idea. I was like, you're like a, you're a low utility person. You don't execute on anything ever.

And now this was your idea and you somehow deserve like something for the success of the idea. Meanwhile, you provided in my opinion less than 1% of the idea's success. Yeah. Yeah. When you get into these hypothetical scenarios where the person is basically not really creating the idea for the purpose of being executed, maybe that's the line. But if you're creating an idea and you're actively trying to get people to execute on it, I'll probably, I will take care of you. If you're not even intentionally trying to create something, first of all, you're used no factor in the world like how would I even know who you are? You're not you don't even step up. You don't leave a trail of Hey, that connects you to this idea. Yeah. So it's no factor. Yeah. Actually, it's a zero factor. The person's just unsat You may have heard heard this story about general Pershing in World War I while inspecting a certain area. He found a project that was not going too well. I, you may have heard a heard this story about general Pershing in World War I. While inspecting a certain area, he found a project that was not going too well.

even though a second lieutenant in charge seemed to have a pretty good plan. General Persing asked the lieutenant how much pay he received, and when the lieutenant replied $141.67 per month, sir, General Persing said, just remember that you get $1.67 for making your plan and issuing the order and $140 for seeing that it's carried out. Yeah, you need people like that. And I'll tell you, this is another thing that will go in the next book.

Well, maybe not the next book. It'll go into the next ancient technique book. Ancient technique will be getting things, getting the troops to execute the plan. How do you do that? Because this is again, he brushes up against these things. Like, hey, we all know that it sucks that if your team isn't doing what they're supposed to do.

How do we actually get them to do it? Right? What are the leadership strategy and tactics, which some of which I do talk about in leadership strategy and tactics, how you get the people to actually get the job done that you want them to do. And part of it has to do with, you know, this guy seemed to have come up with a pretty good plan. Well, if you let your troops come up the plan, there's going to be a better chance to execute it, as we know. So that might go into the ancient procedures, ancient techniques.

Yeah. You remember that video that I was in where I was talking about the ancient master's. Yes, the ancient masters. And I said something where you said to me, I could tell you were reaching for a word. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I said something like, let me summon the power of the,

and I didn't know what to say. I paid myself in a corner of them. Then I said, The ancients, which, by the way, may have been brewed in my head from Tenacious D. Because he's got a, one of their,

one of their, well, the HBO special, they talk about the ancients. And that's exactly. What am I talking about? Maybe. That's exactly where it came from.

I had to summon up the D. They came through at the moment of truth. Yeah. Because those videos, that particular video, I, for some reason I'm a little bit more, I have a little bit more fun when I'm annoyed. A little bit, just a little bit annoyed. Mocking in or something.

So what happened was the female who was prompting me with different questions, she says, you know, so tell me what you do to get up in the morning. And I said, well, what I do is I set my alarm clock and when it goes off, I get out of bed, which is my standard answer. I give him a thousand times. And then she says, no, no, no, no, but she said something along the lines

and she was super cool. She says something along the lines of, no, but I mean, I think my producers, can you give my producer more than that? And that's when I went into this whole thing. But it was just off the top of my head. but I got stuck for a word and the D delivered for me. Came through. Yes.

So now there's going to be a whole book connected to that. See that? Levels. Yes, sir. Yeah. All right. Continuing on. He's,

so he's talking about the purging thing. You get paid $140. You get paid $1.67 for making the plan. You get paid $140 for seeing it is carried out. He says, I'm not sure that I would go to that extreme. Certainly in these days, problems are complex.

and good staff work plays a large part about resolving them. I have known commanders who were not too smart, but they were very knowledgeable about personnel and who knew enough to select the very best for their staffs. Remember, a good leader is one who causes or inspires others, staff or subordinate commanders to do the job. Boy, I've known commanders who are not too smart, but they were very knowledgeable.

There's I know there's all kinds of like literature about this kind of thing, but there's different kinds of intelligence, right? Absolutely different kinds of intelligence. And one of the least most important types of intelligence is book smart. When it comes to operating in the real world, one of the least important types of intelligence is, hey, I can memorize this for a test or I can understand these comments. If you can't read people, if you don't have the emotional intelligence, if you aren't able to react, if you aren't able to control your own emotion, there's about a million things. Yeah.

So you can be not too smart. Yeah. And still do outstanding, especially if you're smart enough to go, you know what? I'm not that smart, but I got, I got Fred over here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's got some brain horsepower. I'm going to bring him on the team. Yeah.

I'm not going to put him up in front of the troops because he fumbles around with his words. But I'm going to have him going through my plan line by line, checking the numbers, making sure we're good to go. Build the right team. Furthermore, no leader knows it all, although sometimes you find one who seems to think he does. A leader should encourage the members of his staff to speak up if they think their commander is wrong. He should invite constructive criticism. it is a grave error for the leader to surround himself with a yes staff. Hence, no yes, men, leadership strategy and tactics.

Do not surround yourself with yes, men. Speaking of ideas that have been stolen, Omar Bradley, I stole that idea, I guess, and put it in a book. General George C. Marshall was an excellent exponent of the principle of having his support and speak up. When he first came to chief staff, when he first became chief of staff of the Army, the secretariat of that office consisted of three officers who presented orally to General Marshall, the staff papers or studies coming from the divisions of the general staff. I was a member of that secretariat. We presented in abbreviated form the contents of the staff studies,

citing the highlights of the problem involved, the various possible courses of actions considered, and the action recommended. At the end of his first week as chief of staff, Marshall called us into his office and opened the discussion by saying, I am disappointed in all of you. When we inquired, if we might ask why, he said, you haven't disagreed with a single thing I've done all week. We told him it just so happened that we were in full agreement with every paper that had been presented,

that we knew he wanted and that we would add our comments to anything that we considered should be questioned. The very next day, we presented a paper as written and then expressed some thoughts, which, in our own opinion, made the recommendation, recommended action questionable. General Marshall said, now that is what I want. Unless I hear all the arguments against an action, I am not sure whether I am right or not. You don't want to surround yourself with those people that are just going to tell you that you're right. And you know what you feel that or you see that with the celebrities, right, that surround themselves with people that just tell them, Hey, you're the greatest.

You're super. You can do whatever you want. And then you watch them on the downward spiral of destruction. They need someone going, hey, bro, stop. That's dumb. You might be able to get away with it, but you're not going to get away with it for long. And it's going to be hanging over. Like, that doesn't happen.

They get surrounded by people that just blindly support them. Yeah. Do you feel that it's like, I guess when you think about it, it seems like a two-way street, right? Like the person, okay, so you don't want to surround yourself with yes, man, right? And let's say you happen, for lack of a better way of putting it, you happened to not surround yourself with yes, yes, man. It's not like you actively were like, hey, you're a yes man and I don't really hang out with you that much. Yeah, you just grew up with Fred and he's like, we'll push back and say with Dave.

Yeah, and you trust him because that's your friend or whatever, right? versus the person who's like actively surrounding themselves with people who are not yes men right but the two-east street kind of goes where if i'm not saying celebrities are like this but some people in the world are like this where it's like hey and maybe they don't consciously think of it this way they just go by their feeling and they're like hey this person doesn't agree with me like all the time like this person does and when this person agrees with me all the time it really really makes me feel good. And this is just a feeling.

They're not consciously analyzing it. So you're saying, you're saying that someone may just by small decision after small decision after small division decision over time, they just end up getting rid of everyone that gives them any objections. Yes. I think that's exactly what happens. Yeah. I think that's why you have to proactively make sure you've got people on your team that

are going to push back. You know, and I just was on the EF online today, I was talking. about the fact that I was hyper paranoid about making sure I took input from other people. There was the when the seals went into Panama they went into Pitea Airfield was a rough operation lost four seals and I worked for a guy that was there he was he was on the boats that put the seals in. And so he had been through the whole planning process and everything. And I asked him, I said, you know, what happened?

He explained to me that what happened tactically on the ground. And I was kind of, okay, I get that. I said, but how did you, how did that plan? Because the plan seemed like it had some violations of sort of fundamental, like, normal tactics that seals use and he just said that there was a couple guys that kind of were no this is what we're doing this is what's going to work and there wasn't a lot of pushback against it so I always felt that it was really critical that you want pushback and that you listen to it because if you know all those seals and and you know those heroic guys that died on

that airfield if if a plan can get through all those guys all those guys all those seals, then we need to make sure our minds are open and we're listening and take an input. Because otherwise, if you come up with a plan that you think is great, man, when you hear a question about it, you got to listen to the question. You got to listen to the question. So it's... That's so hard. Like, you know, when you come up with a plan or an idea or whatever, a video, whatever,

and you show it to someone or you present it. And here's the thing, when you come up with a comprehensive plan that you're happy about, you're fired up, you know? I know where you're going with us and you're like saying how hard it is. I am so conditioned at this point to be paranoid. And I was trying to figure out where that came from in my head. And it came from that situation from hearing that guy who ended up, I ended up working for hearing him explain to me, hey, there wasn't enough pushback. and we went forward with a plan that not everyone agreed with. And you think, I thought to myself, I'm never going to let it.

So at this point, I come up with a plan for anything, which normally, as you know, I try not to. I try to let everybody else come up with the plan. But sometimes I do come up with the plan. And I'm so comfortable with someone saying, hey, I don't like that. It doesn't have any impact on me whatsoever. It's so easy for me to say. Actually, great point. Didn't think of that.

Yeah, man. That's so good. Because you, and you know, you put it. you're the one who put it like this where it's like you don't emotionally attach yourself to the plan. But I guess that's really the part that's hard. I watched Seal Platoon after Seal Patoon after Seal Patoon after Seal Platoon get so wrapped around the axle. That plan is dope. Yeah.

My plan. So cool. And you know, normally at the end of the day, and this is when I was running training, I would watch, because I'd sit there and watch them plan and you're, I'm de facto detached because I'm sitting back watching them plan. but you would see them just go down the road of arguing with each other about my plan versus your plan. Both the plans will work fine. I'll tell you what won't work is trying to do the plan in 20 minutes because you've wasted four hours arguing about which plan is better. And I would see that all the time. Yeah.

You know, I feel I'm not going to say I've gone through this. I'm not going to say I've not gone through this. But, you know, you show someone a video that you might have made or whatever. And you're like you say, hey, you know, tell me what you think of this video before you release it or something like that. And really, when you really be honest, this is what it is. Half of your brain is like, hey, I need some feedback to make it the best I can. And let me give you a look just so I can get some good feedback, you know, on improving it. That's half.

The other half of your brain is kind of like, hey, this is kind of the premiere a little bit. And I want to get rewarded for my work, you know, with, you know, praise and hopefully applause. or something you know kind of like that so it's like your two sides of your brain so one when it when you do have get feedback where it's like hey I would improve this I would do this or at that beginning got to change it or whatever that that second part of your brain is kind of why did I even show it to you like you're not even fucking being cool about it you know kind of kind of an attitude you know that's the part once again this is where humility is so important

because otherwise you just don't improve anything I know hey if I show someone a piece of writing and they go, yeah, you know, I like this, but you could do this different. I'm like, okay, cool. And sometimes I just wrote a piece and I sent it to one of my editors. And let's say they wrote 100 things. Well, let's say they wrote 50 things. Of the 50 things that they wrote, I accepted, I don't know, 93% of them. There was one major change. The only, the most significant change in the piece and I said hey I appreciate the feedback I'm not changing that thing and it wasn't because of ego it's like okay I read it five times and said you know what that's absolutely needs to be in there and I saw her perspective and said you know what I get

where where she's coming from but this ties everything together and I think that's what I didn't do a good job explaining to her but yes. You have to at least be open to it. You have to at least be open to it. Yeah. Yeah. Admitting to yourself that you're like.

And go into it with the attitude of, hey, I have to actually strongly be able to defend my position. And if I can't defend my position, then you're probably right. Right. Like on a logical level almost. Yeah. Not like, hey, that wasn't cool. You put down my writing. You know, like not that attitude, you know.

My, just like I say, well, my. My goal is to listen to, if you and I are working together and I'm in charge and we're going to attack a target, my goal is to have you come up with the plan. That's my absolute goal. When you come to me with a plan, I'm not looking at what's wrong with it. I'm saying what's right with it. I like it. I like your plan better than what I thought I was going to think.

When you bring me a piece of, when I bring you a piece of writing and you give me feedback, my goal is to go, okay, your feedback is correct and I'm wrong. And unless it just pains me to change something, then I'm going to lean towards your recommendation. Yeah. That's such a good way to look at it. It's like you're writing or whatever, you're completed work that you need feedback on.

It's like you just, if you go in automatically regarding it as this, there's a problem with this. There's holes in this. It's missing stuff and it has too much of some other stuff. Yeah. I know that for a fact. And that upset.

me I'm gonna go to this person and they can identify him these things that's it Yeah not how awesome it is it's like there's a problem with this and I need this problem to be solved and this person can solve it I was listening to Brian Copleman on Tim Ferriss's podcast Brian Copleman and David Levine are the writers of the show Billions yes sir have you heard of this show I have I hear good things But it was interesting because Brian Copleman I wish I could remember exactly what he said well There's two things that he said. Number one, if he's going to give somebody something for feedback on something that he's written, you don't give someone their completed project and say,

hey, can you give me some feedback on this? Because I already finished it. What you're really asking, if I say, hey, Echo, I wrote this book. Can you give me some feedback on it? Yeah. That's sort of, it's sort of a bad thing. I have to say, hey, Echo, this is just a draft. Yeah.

And then he had some response of saying something like, do you want, do you want me to read it or do you want feedback? He had some way of saying, hey, do you want me to really go to town on this thing or do you just want me to read it? You just want me to watch this video that you made or do you want feedback? I wish I could think it would say something,

something, you know, do you want professional feedback or something like that? Something that was, hey, look, if I give this to you straight, it's going to sting.

Yeah, that's, man, that's so good. Because it's almost like they're, because they're two different people. They're two different roles you're asking this person to be. Are you, do you want this person to be an audience member? Exactly. A fan or do you want to be a critic?

And critic or editor or assistant, you know, you want, yeah. So it's like just two different attitudes. And that's, yeah, that's like the emotional ego part versus the, you know, the technician or whatever the other guy is. Yeah. So those are, you got to get that humble brain going if you want to ask people. for feedback in anything and it stings every single time. It's the way it works. Going back to the book.

If you happen to be a detailed, detailed to a staff, try and be a good staff officer and, if possible, avoid being a yes man. I would suggest to all commanders that they inform the members of their staffs that anyone who does not agree once in a while

with what is about to be done is of limited value and perhaps should be shifted to some other place where he might occasionally have an idea. So if you're just an agreement all the time, I don't need you. I don't need you. Of course, I'm thinking about the decision-making process. After a decision is made, everyone must be 100% behind it.

I thought the British were admirable in this respect during World War II, no matter how much discussion there had been on a subject. As soon as a decision was made, you never heard any doubts expressed. You had to believe that everyone involved in making that decision had never entertained any ideas except those expressed in this decision. You know how I used to explain this to the young junior officers? Because I used to say once a decision is made, you execute it as if it was your own. Now here's where people will freak out about that, right?

They freak out about that because they think, but what if I don't really agree with it? If you don't really agree with it, check a couple things. Number one, if Echo comes up with a plan and you're my boss and you're telling me how we're going to do something and I'm like, no, we need to do it this way, the first thing I need to check and finally you're like no we're doing it this way that's a decision we're going forward the first thing I need to check is what do you think it is take a guess?

Your ego. Yes, I need to check my ego because I would say upwards of 90% 90% of the time the only reason I disagree is because of my ego because I got some little idea and I think my way would be better

and even if my way is better it's not drastically better because we're both fighting for the same cause Yeah. Right? How often is it a boss is like, hey, we want to execute this way. And someone says, hey, that's a really horrible way to do.

It's going to be unsafe for the team members and it's going to not, it's going to lose money. And the boss goes, I don't care. No, we're doing it my way. No. He goes, wait a second. What are you talking about? Explain this to me. How is it unsafe and how are we going to lose money?

So the idea is, first thing you check is, is it my ego that's preventing me from accepting this new idea? what are the degrees of variance between my idea and the way it's actually happening? Because if the degrees of variance are minimal, then shut up and go and execute the plan as if it was your own. Now, if there are significant degrees of variance where it's going to be a really bad situation, and I hate to use the word catastrophic, but certainly if you see a catastrophic problem, then you go, hey, we cannot do this. This is not good.

and you don't go forward if it's going to be catastrophic. Or again, going back to leadership strategy and tactics and you've got to make it, then you've got to figure out, is it better for me to go ahead with it, but now I can go mitigate the damage, mitigate the risk as much as possible. That might be what you have to do. So that idea of executing as if you believe it, as if it's your own, which is what you should do, you need to have those conversations, listen, put your ego in check. and then if it's close enough, you go,

Roger that, boss, I'm on board with the plan. Let's go execute it. And you do execute it as if it's your own. No factor. Continuing on, I don't want to overemphasize leadership of senior officers. So he doesn't want to just talk about senior officers. My interest extends to leaders of all ranks.

I would caution you to remember that an essential qualification of a good leader is the ability to recognize, select, and train junior officers. I would like to quote from a book entitled Born at Revelry. written by Colonel Red Reeder. Colonel Reader was on a trip for General Marshall and one of his assignments was to inquire into junior leadership. This is an account of his conversation with Colonel Bryant Moore on Guadalcanal. Quote, Colonel Moore, I said, tell me something about leadership.

I had hit a sensitive spot. Colonel Moore forged ahead. Leadership! The greatest problem here is the leaders. and you have to find some way to weed out the weak ones. It is tough to do this when you're in combat. The platoon leaders who cannot command, who cannot foresee things,

and who cannot act on the spur of the moment in an emergency are a distinct detriment. So this is clear, right? We know this. But there you have it, reinforced for the one millionth time. If you've got weak leaders, you're going to have problems. If you can't command, if you can't foresee things, And if you can't act on spur of the moment, you're going to have problems.

When's the last time you heard that's a negative thing, right? Oh, he acts on the spur of the moment. Actually, there's sometimes where you need to do that. He continues on. It's hot here, as you can see. Men struggle. They get heat exhaustion. They come out vomiting and throwing away equipment.

The leaders must be leaders. And they must be alert enough to establish straggler lines and stop this thing. And I need to do I try to research this and order the book The book is actually for sale It's called Born at Revely It got some interesting reviews Seems like a good book where they say I guess it's I guess it's written in some offensive language in modern era

So but I did because I wasn't really a hundred percent The leaders must be leaders and that they must be alert enough to establish straggler lines and stop this thing I guess he's talking about heat exhaustion, right? He must be. Stragler lines are lines of people that aren't ready to fight and stop this thing. I'm assuming he's talking about the heat exhaustion. So it goes on, and this is why I think that's what it means. The men have been taught to take salt tablets, but leaders don't see to this.

Result, heat exhaustion. The good leaders seem to get killed. The poor leaders get the men killed. The big problem is leadership. and getting the shoulder straps on the right people. And then the book continues, 60 millimeter mortars, mortar shells fell about 30 yards away

and attacked a number of coconut trees. I lost interest in taking dictation and the colonel stopped talking. When the salvo was over and things were quiet again, Bryant Moore said, where was I? You saw that patrol. I tell you this,

not one man in 50 can lead a patrol in this jungle. If you can find out who the good patrol leaders are before you hit the comment, zone you have found out something now what's interesting about that is first of all one man in 50 50 can lead a patrol in this jungle that's a that's a significant statement if you and and i will tell he says if you can find out who the good patrol leaders are before you hit the combat zone you found out something how do you do that you do that by putting them in these pressure situations we had such a benefit our guys were so ready we put these guys we put i put my i put the seals going on to

through training like that where you could see them break you could see them not be able to handle it or what's more important they wouldn't be able to handle it day one day two they'd be a little better day three they'd be a little bit better day four they'd be a little bit better by the end of a six month to work up they're actually one of the people that can make these make these things happen so it's not just about finding the good patrol leaders it's about training them you He says, I have to get rid of about 25 officers because they just, I've had to get rid of about 25 officers because they just weren't leaders. I had to make the battalion commander weed out the poor leaders.

This process is continuous. Other junior leaders are finding out that they must know more than their men, more about their men. The good leaders know their men. Of everything he talks about, he says the thing that he gives is that you must know your men. That's the thing. That's the one thing.

He doesn't say they need to navigation, they need to work under fire. He said, they need to know their men. very interesting thing to focus on for for this guy talking for general more talking about this or colonel more but i will tell you that having to get rid of about 25 officers i'm going to go ahead out on a limb here and i don't know how many officers he went through but some of those officers could have been trained could have been trained could have been prepared could have been molded It could have been educated, could have been tested prior to going into combat. He probably would have done better than having to get rid of 25 of them.

Continuing on, what then are the characteristic, what then are the distinguishing qualities of a leader? There are many essential characteristics that he must possess, but I will mention a few that come to mind as perhaps the most important. First, he must know his job without necessarily being a specialist in every phase of it. A few years ago was suggested that all engineers, all engineering subjects be eliminated from the required studies at West Point. I objected. For example, bridge building is a specialty for engineers. Yet, I think every senior officer should have some idea of what is involved. When we reached the Rhine in World War II, it was not necessary that I know how to build a bridge,

but it was very helpful that I knew what was involved so that I could see the bridge engineers receive proper support in tonnage, allowed, and an idea of the time involved. So first, know your job. You have to know everything about it. I didn't know the sniper weapons as good as the snipers did. I didn't know the radio as good as the radio man did. I didn't know the route as good as the point man did, but I knew enough about them.

Continuing on, specialties dominate almost every problem faced by the military today. But faced today by the military leader or the business manager. This individual must get deeply enough. into his problem that he can understand it and intelligently manage it without going so far as to become a specialist himself in every phase of the problem. You don't have to be a tank expert in order to effectively use a tank unit of your command. Thomas J. Watson of IBM once said that the genius of an executive is the ability to deal successfully with matters he does not understand.

This leads to another principle of leadership which I have often found neglected both in the military and in business. While you need to be a specialist in all phases of your job, you should have a proportionate degree of interest in every aspect of it. And those concerned your subordinates should be aware of your interest. So you should be interested in what is happening. You must get around and show interest in what your subordinates are doing, even if you don't know much about the technique of their work.

And when you make these, when you are making these visits, try to pass out, praise, when do, as well as corrections or criticism. That's an interesting one. It's very interesting what Omar Bradley points out here. That, hey, not only should you know what's happening, but you should show interest in what your support is doing. You know how I would translate that? I would call it building relationships. Building relationships.

That's what he's talking about. He's talking about building relationships, showing interest, being out there. Yes. Building relationships with your troops. Again, I think a lot of times in this speech, he's either brushing up or he's using his own verbiage to cover, to talk about the same things that we talk about all the time. The same things that I write about all the time. Continuing on, we tend to speak up only when things go wrong. This is such a well-recognized fact that a complaint department is an essential part of many business firms.

To my knowledge, no comparable facility exists anywhere to expedite the handling of praise for a job well done. It need not be extravagant. We all get enough criticism and we learn to take it. Even Sir Winston Churchill, despite his matchless accomplishment, found occasion to say, I have benefited enormously from criticism. And at no point did I suffer from any perceptible lack thereof. But let us remember that praise also has a role to play. Napoleon was probably the finest exponent of this principle of recognition through his use of a quarter inch of ribbon to improve the morale and get results.

So interesting that Bradley is very focused on praise. Very interesting that he's focused on praise. You can see what kind of a different guy is than Patton. And by the way, I forgot to say this. His book, much of the movie Patton, the famous movie, Oscar award winning movie Patton. Sure. It was, a lot of it was based on, on, on that book that he wrote, a soldier story. It's because it's two different philosophies, right, with the praise thing.

Yeah, you know, you just, you just get the feeling that Omar Bradley was a little bit, well, a lot more, a lot more humble, a lot more, you know, open and, and, and probably, hey, good job, buddy, where you don't expect Patton to say, hey, good job, buddy. Unless it's some crazy situation. That's hell of the job, soldier. Right. But you picture Omar Bradley going, hey, nice work on that. That was good. You don't really, so I'm just saying it's an interesting thing for him to keen in on. Yeah, it feels like there's, I mean, maybe it goes with different personalities or whatever.

But okay, so on one hand, you have the guy who's always saying good job, one's a good job. And offering corrections when necessary too. Dicomedy can get out of balance for sure. So they're essentially, it's almost like you're constantly in touch with how they're. feeling about you kind of thing as a as a worker or as whatever yeah um so it's like they'll be like good job every every little thing is either a good job or hey you could do this a little bit better every single little thing right so it's like you kind of know where you stand and it's kind of comforting i guess in that way but at the same time it's kind of like when do you know when you really did a good

job you don't really know as much you're not totally touch but the opposite the other guy who did he doesn't say anything you do a little good job you won't hear nothing ever You'll know about the corrections for sure, but they tend, and I'm speaking from experience more than anything, they tend to be like big corrections if you have to make a, you know, because it's no factor corrections or it's like, eh, you know, whatever, like, fine, it's an 80% solution and it's cool, whatever. Meanwhile, they don't say much is what I'm saying, until something's a big deal, good or bad. So really it kind of makes you want to strive to get that big compliment, you know, more so than, And so it's less comforting, I guess, day to day.

But at the same time, it's almost like this intangible, like, motivation to do a good job for this guy, you know? Yeah. It kind of seems like that. Yeah. It's a dichotomy that's got to be balanced. You don't want to go overboard. You don't want to be complimenting every little thing. You don't want to harp on every little thing either.

I would say you are correct. It's better to back off a little bit and have your compliments or your criticisms be worthy. of either one of those things. Smaller corrections more often are easier to give than big corrections when people aren't used to. You can kind of condition someone, right? You can condition someone and it's good to do this.

If I condition someone where they expect like, hey, some pretty straightforward feedback, that's a totally positive thing. If you're not conditioned to it and all of a sudden I hammer you with something, it's a blow. Yeah. You know, it hurts.

and it might even make you defensive. But if I'm constantly, not constantly to the point of being annoying, but if I'm on a regular basis, I'm telling you, oh, Echo, you know, can you adjust this thing when you put these things out? Or, hey, Echo, when you get done with the project, the report needs to have more detail in it. Okay. Well, the more I correct you, and again, I've got to be careful.

Can't go overboard. But I got to get you conditioned where you understand that I am going to, give you some some feedback, some negative feedback about what you're doing. Don't want to harp on you. And it's really hard to tell, right? Because a lot of times people just sit there and take it and they go home and kick their dog because they're mad at their boss. The next little characteristic of a leader, he says, both mental and physical energy are essential to successful leadership. How many really good leaders have you known who are lazy or weak?

or who couldn't stand the strain. Sherman was a good example of a leader with outstanding mental and physical energy. I cite him with some trepidation because some of you may be from Georgia. However, during the advance from Chattanooga to Atlanta, he often went for days with only two hours of sleep per night and was constantly in the saddle doing reconnaissance

and he often knew the dispositions and terrain so well that he could maneuver the enemy out of position without a serious fight with minimal losses. So General Tocompson, who marched, who did his march to the sea, $100 million worth of damage in Georgia as he kind of destroyed things as he went. But showing that he had this high level of energy.

Continues, conversely, a sick commander is of limited value. It is not fair to the troops under him to have a leader who is not functioning 100%. I had to relieve several senior commanders during World War II because of illness. It is often pointed out that Napoleon didn't lose a major battle until Waterloo where he was a sick man. A leader should possess human understanding and consideration for others. Men are not robots and should not be treated as though they were machines. I do not by any means suggest coddling. There's another example of the dichotomy, right? Don't treat them as if machines, but don't coddle them.

but men are highly intelligent, complicated beings who will respond favorably to human understanding and consideration. By this means their leader will get maximum effort from each of them. He will also get loyalty. And in this connection, it is well to remember that loyalty goes down as well as up. The sincere leader will go to bat for his subordinates when such action is needed. Pretty straightforward dichotomy right there. A good leader must sometimes be stubborn. Here, I am reminded of the West Point cadet prayer, and part of that prayer says,

a leader must be able to choose the harder right instead of the easier wrong. Armed with the courage of his convictions, he must fight to defend them. Then he has to come to a decision after thorough analysis. And when he is sure he is right, he must stick to it even to the point of stubbornness. Grant furnaces a good illustration of this trait. He never knew when he was supposed to be licked. A less stubborn man might have lost at Shiloh. By the way, Shiloh, 24,000 dead in two days.

Total nightmare. Maybe you've heard the story of General Grant in the Richmond campaign. When, after being up all night, making his reconnaissance and formulating and issuing orders, he lay down and fell asleep under a tree. Sometime later, a courier rode up and informed the general that disaster and hit his right flank, and that his troops at the end of the line were in full retreat. General Grant sat up, shook his head to clear the cobwebs, and said, it can't be so, and went back to sleep.

And it wasn't so. He had confidence in himself and in his subordinate leaders. A little hard for me to accept that one. I may give a little bit more attention if someone tells me my flank is collapsing. But the point being, he had confidence, hey, we're going to be all right. Yeah I mean it's That seemed like a little tail

I mean I don't know Obviously I don't know if that's true or not I'm assuming it's true But it seemed like more of an exaggerated tail Like straight up sleeping Yeah straight up There's a picture of Dave Burke and I Good deal there

Yes Where I think we're putting in Combat Outpost Falcon in downtown Ramadi Yeah And the picture's probably I don't even know when the picture's taken But we're both asleep We're both of us sitting up against the wall

We're both asleep. We've probably been asleep awake for 24 hours at this point. He's the commander of salt, one six. Yeah, salt six. He was a lightning one six. And I was the commander of task unit bruiser. And we're both just racked out. Yeah, we're in the combat outpost.

The combat outpost was now secure. There's a bunch of guys from the 137 army just surrounding this thing and building it out. And we need to get some sleep. So apparently we did. Yeah. Yeah. Sleeping gets a bad rap, I guess, now that you kind of mention it. You know how sleeping on the job.

Sleeping on the job, that's not a good expression. Like, that expression is not a positive expression. Yes, you know. Like, hey, if you're sleeping on the job. You're not doing a good job. Yeah. But if you... Yeah, actually, Leif talks about this too.

Life, like, as soon as he would get into an Overwatch position, get it set up and get security set, you'd be like, cool, I'm going to sleep. Because the... planning cycle for for like us officers going into the field we would be planning basically the whole time getting ready to go in we would know that once we got in the field we could get some sleep yeah because there's no chain of command breathing down your neck for another con ops submission you're just out there you're like oh god yeah bro freak but if you're sleep deprived yeah a lot of times you're not you know good to nobody yeah i i i'm not 100% on board with that i'm just being straight up

Like, there's, there's, I mean, I read some things that say, you know, if you've, if you've missed, if you haven't slept for 24 hours, it's the equivalent of three, you're, you're legally drunk. I don't think so. Yeah. I'm sure there's. There's times, I'll tell you what's a good example, the early musters that we did when we were doing the musters. We were, we didn't, we didn't have a system down yet. And so we didn't know all the things that we were going to have to tackle. We were just we just didn't prepare correctly and so we Laif and I would be up all night long. I think the worst muster as far as sleep goes was New York City New York City one of the nights I think it was the first night we had to sign whatever 900 graduation

certificates it was 1.30 in the morning when we got started PT by the way for us starts at three So we sat there We signed him We went to bed for an hour We woke up and next day we're on stage The entire day No stopping people Riddling questions at me

Boom what about this what about that I'm crap pa pa pa Now could I have done that if I was Seven drinks drunk Some people can Well and I guess Let me rephrase that Let's not compare to alcohol

Because we know functionally You could pull that off But To say that I was up there cognitively impaired. I don't think you could say that. Yeah.

I don't think it's true. I think the reality of it is that different people are different and it's going to affect people in different ways and generally speaking, you know, getting adequate rest is better than not getting happy. There's no doubt. We'll take, we would love to get that big old sleep.

Sure, that's great. But what I'm saying is people don't always get to sleep a lot and you still have to make critical decisions and your mind, just like your body can adapt to certain situations, when I'm doing something, it doesn't matter how I'm tired. I don't know what's happening. I'm on it. Right?

Yeah. So, you know, it's interesting. The, okay, so there is, I'm not going to, I don't know the studies, but if you believe that you got enough sleep, it affects your capacity. So, like, that almost suggests, like, man, if you're just. just like, I'm going to beTF through this 100%. Oh, yeah. And that's your attitude.

That will help your cognitive capacity, even if you didn't get that much sleep. And I think I meant more than anything where it's like, I don't mean you're no good to nobody when you're, you know, sleep deprived. I'm saying it's a good attitude to have to make sure like your team or whatever isn't sleep deprived. That's a good attitude to have, you know. But as an individual or team member, whatever, it's good to be able to find. Which could sleep in without for sure. Yes, you do need to be able to sleep as preferred, but what I'm saying is

It's not gonna you can step up and rise the occasion look. I don't recommend it for sure you want to be able to sleep. Yes But I'm not Trastically cognitively impaired at the moment you know where all of a sudden wait a second, you know, I don't know what they answer that question is Hold on, you know. That doesn't happen. It doesn't happen. Your adrenaline flows. You're up there.

You're pulling the trigger on your gun. You're whatever. Things are happening. You get in the game. Yeah. You get in the game. You're not, you know, falling apart. No.

You're making things happen. Yes, sir. Even, hey, you come to the muster that you operate on very little sleep at the muster, especially the early ones. Yeah. I didn't see you, you know. Hey, I forgot to press record. Well, you know what I'm saying?

Maybe haven't been paying attention as much as you could have in that case. Check. All right. Continuing on. I do not mean to infer that there is always just one solution to a problem. Usually there is one best solution, but any good plan boldly executed is better than indecision. There's more. There's usually more than one way to obtain results.

And the most important thing about that little section right here, look, we know. That's the same thing Patton says Any good plan boldly executed is better than indecision Or a good, what does Patent say? A good plan executed now is better than a great plan executed next week. They're saying the same thing. There's usually more than one way to obtain results. I like that.

I want to focus on that because, again, I'm not arguing with you about six and one, half dozen the other. I'm not arguing with you about should we bring six vehicles or five vehicles. I'm not arguing with you if we should, if we should invest, you know, $800,000 in this market or $740,000 in this market. I'm not arguing those things. What's the outcome going to be? They're going to be pretty close.

There's more than one way is the skin of cat. Cool, let's go. Let's rock and roll. And by the way, when you come up with a plan and I go, you know what, Echo, let's do it. Let's do what you say. And we start going down that road. It's not like we're stuck there. And I go, hey, Echo, it looks like your plan might not be working.

working out that great. Let's make an adjustment. You go, cool. Sounds good. And by the way, you're more open to hearing my suggestions if I was originally open to your suggestions in the first place. I built a little relationship there. Working on multiple fronts. Continuing on, another quality of leadership that comes to mind is self-confidence. You must have confidence in yourself, your unit, and your subordinate commanders and in your plan. This recalls a couple of incidents just before the invasion of Normandy 1944 a story went around in some of the units that were making the assault on the beaches that they would suffer 100% casualties that none of

them would come back I found it necessary to visit these units and talk to all ranks I told them that of course we would suffer casualties but certainly our losses would be less would not be a hundred percent and that with our air and naval support we would succeed after our landing a correspondent told me that on his way across the channel in one of the leading LSTs, he had noticed a sergeant reading a novel. Struck by this seeming lack of concern by the sergeant, he said, he asked, Aren't you worried?

How can you be reading at a time like this? The sergeant replied, no, I'm not worried. General Bradley said everything would go all right. So why should I worry? I can't recall just what I had said, but it accomplished its purpose, at least where one man was concerned. I might relate another incident where there was a lack of confidence. I had to relieve a senior commander because I learned that his

men had lost confidence in him. This meant, of course, that we would not expect maximum performance by that division. After being relieved, the officer came back through my headquarters and showed me a file of statements given to him by request, I am sure, by the burglomaster of all the towns his division had passed through. If he had confidence in himself, he would not have felt the need for all those letters. That's a cool little story. So he fires this division commander, and the division commander comes out and says,

Listen, I haven't been doing a bad job. Here's the mayors of all the cities that we've been through. Here, they told me I did a good job. Here, look at the letters. And he's like, and he actually goes on. After seeing the letters, I told the officer that if I ever had any doubts as to whether to relieve him, those doubts were now removed. His letters proved beyond question that he had lost confidence in himself. So it was no wonder that the man had lost confidence in him.

So definitely confidence is important. The interesting thing is humility, which is chapter two in extreme ownership, check your ego, became an army value in 2019, which is awesome. But I also, he talks about confidence. that's what he talks about. He never really explores what happens when you get overconfident, right? And we all know that you can get overconfident

and you can lose. So that's why humility is important. He says here, next characteristic, a leader must possess imagination. Whether it be an administrative decision or one made in combat, the possible results of that decision must be plain to the one making it.

What will the next step be and the one after that? That's all he gives to imagination. That's all he gives to creativity. Need a little bit more. While there are many other qualities which can contribute to effective leadership, I will mention just one more, but it is a very important one character. This word has many meanings. I am applying it in a broad sense to describe a person who has high ideals, who stands by them,

and who can be absolutely trusted. Such a person will be respected by all those with whom he is associated. And such a person will readily be recognized by his associates for what he is. Circumstances mold our character. These circumstances affect different people in different ways. From exactly the same set of circumstances, one man may theoretically build a palace, while another may have difficulty building a lean to. A lean to?

It's a little hut. A little lean, the roof leans up against a seat. Stick and put some leaves on top of it to keep you dry. That's called a lean to So from the same experiences one person builds a palace the other person builds a lean to That's a rough one to take it's a rough one to take because you might look around and say well You know, I have the right Circumstances in my life to be successful I promise you that there's someone with worse circumstances that's more circumstances that's more

successful than you promise you promise you I believe you it has been said that a man's character is the reality of himself I don't think a man's strength of character ever changes I remember a long time ago when somebody told me that a mountain mountain might be reported to have moved I could believe it or disbelieve it as I wished but if anyone told me that a man had changed his character I should not believe it I don't know look I think it's hard for people characters to change I don't think you can change someone's character very easily actively proactively make their character change but I think that through life and

through experience people's character does absolutely change yeah and you can meet someone now that you knew ten years ago and you'd say whoa that person's a whole new character and you would mean character yeah it's classic sense yeah I mean what and to kind of to kind of identify what is character do you think like he what just kind of moral like your fiber you know it's not because it's not like you can talk to pretty much anyone and they'd probably tell you yeah like I'm a different person than I was 15 years ago pretty much everyone would be like okay that wouldn't be a big surprise or whatever but they're not talking about that right like character is different well they are talking

about that what he's saying is that you know that slimy guy that you knew in high school that was trying to screw people over and whatever yeah he's saying like that guy that guy When you meet him 20 years later, guess what he's doing? Still a slimy guy. One way or another. I disagree with that. I actually have known people whose character has changed. And for me, I mean, we could do a whole show, I guess, about what is character.

But like, for me, character is doing what you know you're supposed to do. Like actually doing what you know you're supposed to do. Doing what you know is the right thing to do. Yeah. That's how you end up with character, right? You say you're going to do something, you do it. You know you're supposed to behave a certain way, regardless of anyone's watching, regardless of the outcome. You know you're supposed to do the right thing you do it.

That's character. Yeah. I agree with you. I think that you can, it's a rare thing. I do kind of agree with him. It is a rare thing, but it happens. Look, there's some people you go, I remember that greasy dude. Yeah.

Just being all trying to, you know, get, take care of himself. Right. And you look at that person 10 years later, it's the same dude. But occasionally. you'll get someone that changes. Yeah, like through maybe some big impactful event or maybe, or maybe even just like a new influence in life and maybe like a little revelation kind of thing. Like, bro, you can, oh, yeah, that can happen, I think.

And I think it kind of does happen on these teeny tiny ways, but nothing that would kind of collectively be considered character, you know? But I think, yeah, I think, well, yeah, people can. Yeah, I absolutely think they can. I think it, yeah, and I've seen it. Yeah, I've seen it. I know people where I, you know, used to look at him and go, and now I look at them totally solid.

Yeah. I mean, I don't know how much my character's changed, but it absolutely, it has changed. Yeah. I'm a different guy than I was when I was 22. Yeah. Yeah, maybe in the, on the battlefield, maybe it's more rare, you know, like to the point where he's writing straight up, it can't be changed. Yeah, it's, it's strange.

that he's so, I mean, saying it's, he'd more believe that a mountain moved than someone's character moved. That's a really bold thing. And look, I got plenty of examples where I know someone when they were, you know, 15 and then 20 and then 25 and 30, and it's the same guy.

Yeah. The whole time. Sometimes it's the person's just as upstanding in their character the whole time. And sometimes they go, sometimes they're just a scumbag from day one. And you're like, yeah, no, that's, didn't expect much, much less than that. And then there's some people that progress.

And there's some people that, that regress, right? Some people get treated bad, they go through, and their character goes down. Yeah. So I think we're in mutual disagreement with General Omar Bradley on this point. I think people's character can absolutely improve. And I think, I think it can get worse as well. You know, somebody gets, what's that burned? Yeah.

Right? You get burned by someone. You get burned by a girl. You get burned by one of your friends. That'll change your character. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of the same deal, right?

Some big, like, revelation, you know, or some big impactful event or the wrong influence over time. Like, just over time and time, time. You know, you start hanging around with wrong people. Get into drugs or something like this, you know? Or it's kind of like, man, my whole life is like, if you don't lie and cheat and steal, you kind of don't live. You know, you kind of don't survive.

kind of in this environment or something like that. Yeah, that wouldn't make sense, too, yeah. Check. He's wrapped out to the last characteristic he talks about. All leaders must possess these qualities, which I have been discussing. And the great leaders are those who possess one or more of them to an outstanding degree. Some leaders just miss being great because they are weak in one or more of these areas. There's still another ingredient in this formula for a great leader that I have left out.

And that is luck. All caps. He must have opportunity. Then, of course, when opportunity knocks, he must be able to rise and open the door. Cool. I mean, look. Yes, absolutely. I've been extremely lucky.

I've seen people be extremely lucky. I've seen people been unlucky. So luck absolutely plays a role. I will say you make your own luck to an extent. luck is a tough one. No one wants to it's a double-edged sword, right? It's a double-edged sword, because

you either, oh, that guy got lucky, right? You didn't see how hard that guy worked. Right? Or that guy got unlucky. You didn't see what that person did to end up in that unlucky spot. Yeah. And both those things can flip.

And they're both true, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It gets real complicated in the luck thing. Yeah. I mean, I talk about in leadership strategy and tactics,

I talk about the luck that I had in the seal themes. All kinds of luck. Yeah. All kinds of luck, for sure. Just the people I worked with the deployments that I did, the situations that I was in, there's a lot of luck there. Some of that luck I manufactured.

Some of it was just straight up all caps, love. But then it's like at the same. time you can be like well even in a great result like a scenario with a great result you could have been even more lucky there are possible you know so it's like especially when you want to point your finger you know and be like then not point your finger but when you want to put your finger on a certain result and be like oh this was lucky brother it's just way more to it than that like you can't there there are better results that are that were possible yes right so you just chose to point your finger at this very specific result and be like this was lucky and then

And then it's a spectrum. You could have been like one level less lucky and still had a great result kind of thing. And then it goes down from there and it can go up from there too. So it's like any time to label it luck as the thing. I mean, there are extreme scenarios for sure. Oh, yeah. Like you win the lottery. That's lucky.

Yeah. Technically in and of itself. Luck does play a role. Yeah. But it's not the whole deal. Yeah. Yeah. It's not the whole deal at all.

And it's just like, it's like if you. you got to let's say this luck is a factor but it is a smaller factor than most people give it credit for though like you said there are times where people just get lucky oh yeah massively lucky and then you have to evaluate like what specific result are you talking about because if it's like okay this person has a 20 million dollars in his bank in his bank account that in and of itself is the the result right of some something right now you can start evaluating okay was it hard work and then with that hard work it's like okay what luck is there luck in that hard work kind of thing or did they just win the lottery okay that's a big lucky thing kind of thing but you're just talking about the 20 million dollars in the account

you're not talking about his whole life you're not talking about any of that you're just talking about a very specific scenario so that's why I think sometimes people get jammed up and they'll evaluate this whole big resulting scenario not a specific element in it a big resulting scenario. Oh, this person's whatever, you know, successful in this way, right? And they're like, oh, yeah, it's, it's, he just got lucky. But, Brad, you're, you're talking about that success has so many different elements in it. Good and bad, by the way.

And then you just wrap up the whole thing and deliver a luck label. Luck is most likely a minor impact, but it is an impact. And there are times when it's a significant impact. Oh, yeah. But yeah, it's like it's, it's straight up. most of the time in you when you hear it. It's straight up negating every other factor. Oh, when people say, oh, that guy is lucky.

For sure. For sure. When someone's trying to make excuses for themselves on why this person got this promotion and I didn't know they were lucky. Yeah. Is there no luck involved? No, there's some luck involved, but let's not leave it to luck. Continuing on, some may ask, why do you talk about the quality?

of leadership. They maintain that you either have leadership or you don't that leaders are born not made. I suppose some are born with a certain amount of leadership. Frequently we see children who are who seem inclined to take charge and direct their playmates. The other youngsters follow these directions without protest but I am convinced nevertheless that leadership can be developed and improved by study and training. 100%. There is no better way to develop leadership than to give the youngster or other individual a job involving responsibility and let him try to work it out try to avoid telling him how to do it he's talking about youngsters as you've heard as i talk about leadership strategy and tactics this is a technique it's a technique

to make people better leaders put them in leadership situations give them responsibility give them a job give them a task something they can do make them lead it they lead it they're successful their confidence goes up. Then he says try avoiding how to telling them how to do it. Yeah, that's decentralized command. That, for example,

is the basis for a whole system of combat orders. Yes. Combat orders, they're actually talking about something very specific. It is a way of delivering orders using commander's intent as opposed to telling you, here's the mission,

here's the people, here's the weapons, here's everything. Here's exactly I want you to do it and said you just give them the mission, you let them figure it out. They call that combat orders. Well,

tell the subordinate, we tell the subordinate commander what we want him to do and leave him to the details. I think this system is largely responsible for the many fine leaders in our services today. We are constantly training and developing younger officers and teaching them how to accept responsibility. However, don't discount experience. Someone may remind you that Napoleon led armies before he was 30 and Alexander the great died at the age of 33.

Napoleon, as he grew older, commanded even larger armies. Alexander might have been even greater had he lived longer and had more experience. In this respect, I especially like General Buckner's theory that judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgment. And he wraps it up here. I've been asked to speak on leadership in the past. I have fairly well covered these same thoughts with other groups. somehow, however, at the moment, these thoughts take on added significance for me.

You see, my first great-grandson was born a year ago. We call him Fat Henry. What happens to his life and to the lives of his contemporaries may well be in your hands. Thank you. So, that's a poignant kind of way to wrap it up. the fact that the the leaders right now that are listening to this

the leaders that are learning the leaders that are reading they will end up running the world and they will end up running it well and making it better or running it bad and making it worse for Fat Henry

so interesting interesting I'm sure we'll get to his book at some point. But so much about leadership. So many things that we hit, we cover, we see it from a different angle. Makes you better.

Makes me better. Makes me better every time I get to the opportunity to think through these things. And, of course, the best way to train leaders. is to make sure that we are being good leaders ourselves, setting a good example.

The best example that we can, staying on the path, you might say. So since we are looking to stay on the path, anything you recommend, Echo Charles, for that conduct. Well, we do want to keep ourselves capable. Improve the skills, increase the skills, one skill being Jiu-Jitsu.

It's important skill to increase and maintain our capability. Jiu Jitsu is one of them. Keep working out. If you're not working out, work out. The weak body is an incapable body in a matter of speaking. That is true. You definitely want to be as strong as you can. Different for everybody.

Yes. Realistic. But be the best shape that you can be in. That's good advice. Can't really be denied. Can't be. So when we're doing Jiu-Jitsu, we need a ghee, we need rash guards, get an origin ghee because they're the best 100% factually.

Made in America. Made in America. You know, okay. Are we blowing that off now? Made America is not a big deal anymore. Oh, no, no. Or is Made to America a bigger deal than ever. I think it's a bigger deal.

Is that what's going on? Oh, yeah. Just making sure. It seemed to me like you were just getting ready to move on without saying made to America. Okay. I understand your feedback. Thank you for that.

Maine America is a big deal. Huge deal. It was a big deal prior to the virus. Now it's an even bigger deal. American supply chain. We're not begging and pleading for stuff to get shipped overseas. We have it. It's made in America.

All of it. Yes, sir. So. And by the way, it's not just Jiu-Jitsu either. Jeans. You probably need jeans. Yes, sir. Oh, does everyone in the world,

the entire world wear jeans, yes. Every single person in the entire world needs jeans, has jeans. Why not get jeans that are made in America? Why not get the best and most comfortable jeans ever made? That's my question. Yeah, no reason why not. So, go to Origin, Maine, the state main. Origin, main.com.

This is where you can get all this stuff. Okay. So all this stuff that I'm talking about like Jocco, so eloquently put it, is made in America. from the beginnings of the of the materials because one thing to be like hey yeah I you know switch to the tag out here up in

Long Beach and so it's made here technically you know and hey look no one's mad at that that's cool but some people are mad at it well some people are yes sir you're right I'm wrong all right stand corrected for sure but on the fiber the cotton is grown in America that is made in America so these things wrong

Made it America. So like we said, geese, rascards, jeans, American denim, other things, joggers, sweat suits, various apparel clothing items. Boots. So origin boots have like a more of like a, I don't want to say mystique, but you know, when you're like, when you kind of see the origin boots, they kind of have a gravitas to them more so than. There's a little something about them. Yeah. You know how Omar Bradley said that some people don't have it? Yeah.

Well, we could say that certain items in the world also have it. I would say that origin boots have it. That is the perfect way to put it. Yes, sir. So get some boots with it. Yes. Also, Jaco Fuel. Okay, so I was talking about staying healthy, staying capable, all this stuff.

Like, hey man, supplementation is part of that, that whole deal. So. Very important. You won't know how important it is until your joints start giving up. Your joints start quitting workouts, you know, when your elbows are all sore when you're trying to, you know, get under the bench and stuff. Yeah. Trust me, it's no good. Joint warfare, krill oil, super krill oil, discipline and discipline go.

We got the ready to drink. You were drinking lemon lime today. Yeah, you know, I did. Citrus psycho. Yeah. I had the Tropic Thunder one earlier. You were too deep. Huh?

Yes, sir. Check. Mulk, by the way. If you're a human, and let's say you are doing any kind of activity, you need protein. Yes. Might as well get protein that is clean and that just straight up tastes like dessert. Yeah. Dave Burke.

Good deal. Yeah. Worried that maybe it was a weakness. Yes. At night to have a strawberry milk. Man, that was a very. technical scenario he was talking about so I could see it's a weak you know what I evaluated it later back into the whole thing where you used to be like hey Jocko if

you're so into the way your supplements taste maybe that's a weakness right it's kind of the same concept yes I thought I still think you're wrong well at the end of the day if your results driven oh yeah it's like weakness well no I you won't be able to recognize any weakness in the scenario so let's it go because at the end of the day you win 100% you are correct about that sure but if we want to go technical your intention is something you see what I'm saying yeah I want the supplement that you taste good yeah Dave look this is a thing that we need to just continue to try and clarify for everyone if you have a mulk late at night you're not that hungry but you want to taste something delicious so you you mix one up. It's 11 o'clock at night.

Let's face it. That's a questionable activity. But at the same time, you're literally providing your body with the fuel that it needs to be strong. So it's a real thing. This is a real win. It's a real win. So I'm calling it a win.

Yes, sir. I agree. So, yeah, get on that. Get on that. Do I need to make a milk that taste like crap? Right. Just for. the mental discipline.

Just to get a double dose of discipline, you'll get strong and you'll get mentally tougher because you'll be drinking something that tastes like caracine. Yeah, no, don't do that. Don't do that, please. Check.

So anyway, yes, milk, protein in the form of a dessert, all for it, 100%. Jocko white tea. Also, you want something a little bit lighter, organic, refreshing if you drink it as iced tea.

The thing that people really like about Jocka white tea is that it allows you to deadlift 8,000 pounds. And by the way, that's double blind placebo tested with a 94-person control group. Yeah. So get that. And all these supplement items can be found at the vitamin shop.

So you don't have to order it by mail. You can go and get it from the vitamin shop. If you need it, if you have an emergency situation. Yeah, you need it right now for sure. milk now yeah I dig it also we have a store jaco has a store is called jaco store where you can get your apparel apparel's cool right yeah i mean the word apparel yeah merch that was the one i think the kids are saying that nowadays merch which is cool i dig it anyway merch if you want to buy a t-shirt says discipline equals freedom boom get it there jocco store dot com you want to see or you want to get a shirt

that says good written across the front good that's a you gotta know what that's for you know it's not just saying good if you want a trucker's hat yeah or a regular hat or a beanie for your head flex fit yeah all that stuff hoodies

lightweight and heavy tank tops all this stuff yes jocco store dot com that's where you can get this cool stuff and if you are seen in the wild by me representing yeah I will give you a head nod Yes, the bona fides, as it were. Oh, yeah.

What is the bona fides? Do you know what the technical bonafetes was in the military? It's like the cheesy thing where someone says, it's a nice night for a walk. And the other person says, but it's cold in Nebraska. So it's a little, like I would say to you, it's a nice night for a walk. And you would say, but it's cold in Nebraska.

Then I go, okay, cool. Hey, here's what's going on. You know what I thought it was? I thought it was nice night for a walk, eh? Then the other person says, nice night for a walk. Then you say, wash day tomorrow. Nothing clean, right? Then the other person says, nothing clean right.

What is that from? Terminator. Oh, okay. Anyway, so yes, bonapides all day. If I see you, I'm going to give you the same deal. I may say nice thing for a walk. Isn't it weird that my knowledge comes from 20 years of serving the nation in the military? Your knowledge comes from Terminator 2.

Well, that was Terminator 1, but yes, Terminator. too as well that is interesting so I guess basically we both have the same knowledge yeah same thing I like it uh yes and also subscribe if you haven't already on all the podcasting places where if you listen to podcast subscribe you know it's a thing it's cool yeah speaking of you know this podcast we also have other podcasts one of them we're having some technical difficulties right now sure we had a podcast that was previously called the thread there's already an existing podcast called The Thread, which I didn't know about because I just didn't really pay attention to it.

And so we're changing the name of ours. Just don't know what it's going to be called yet. We'll put it up there shortly. So if you're missing the thread, that's where it's at. It's gone for now. It'll be back. We'll put up all the episodes. We'll change whatever we've got to change so that it's differentiated from that.

My bust. Oops. Yeah. The weird thing is there's all kinds of podcasts called The Thread or some variant of that. I mean, but ours, I think I would say ours was more popular, so they didn't like that. And I don't want people to be confused. No, it'll eliminate confusion for sure. We also have the grounded podcast, the Warrior Kid podcast.

And speaking of Warrior Kids, we got Warrior Kid Soap from Irishoach Ranch.com. Is that stuff, is killer soap live on the Jocko store yet? Yes. You keep giving weird answers. Well, you know, there's a thing. There's the, no. Be on the lookout for that. I'll put that.

All right. So, if not, go to Irish Oaks Ranch.com and get some soap, some killer soap, so that you and your family can stay clean. You can stay clean. Also, we have a YouTube channel for the video of this podcast, plus excerpts, which is a big deal. So, you know, you want to listen to a cool concept that may have been. You know, in one of the episodes that you kind of remember, it'll be as an excerpt so you can, you know, you can watch that, maybe share it with somebody if you want.

But nonetheless, YouTube channel, yes, we do have a YouTube channel. So subscribe it out if you want. Totally official. Got the checkmark and everything. Did they send you something? Did they contact you to tell you you're official now? Well, we had some help by some very capable people. And yeah, they let us know that, yeah, we're official.

Did you feel kind of good about that? Were you kind of like, you're the man? Yes, sir. I still do. I feel like we have an official YouTube channel. That's good. Well, we do factually. Better than being unofficial.

I'm just saying that. Also psychological warfare. iTunes, Google Play, MP3 platforms. Get yourself some psychological header to get you through moments of weakness. Flipside canvas, Dakota Meyer, Flipsidecanvus.com. Very cool graphic designs to hang on your wall. Hang it in your gym. Hang it in your room.

Keep you on the path. Some books. We got a book called The Code, the Evaluation, the Protocols. We got leadership strategy and tactics. I referenced that a bunch today. We got the Way the Warrior Kid series. There's three of them. Way of the Warrior Kid, Mark's Mission, and Where There's a Will.

We got Mikey and the Dragons. Best Children's book ever for the Youngens. Factually. Factually. We have extreme ownership in the dichotomy of leadership, which I wrote with my brother Laif Babin. And we have Discipline equals Freedom Field Manual. So check those books out.

We have Eschelonfront. My leadership consultancy and what we do is solve problems through leadership. If you have issues and your team and your organization and your company, go to Escalonfront.com and we will help you out. We have EF online, which is interacting with all the EF instructors, all the Escalonfront instructors, including me, Laif, J.P., Mike, Dave. Jason Steve all of us we're on there

I should have written those out make sure I don't miss anybody but yes that's what we're doing we're there we are we have shifted to this online platform for a lot of our consulting right now due to COVID-19 it turns out that this platform is just awesome we're utilizing

it we are ramping it up so if you want to check that out if you want to talk to me go to eFonline.com get enrolled in that. We also have the muster coming up. It's our leadership conference. The first one of the year was canceled due to COVID-19.

That was in Orlando. That one's canceled. Right now, we're shifting to Phoenix, September 16th and 17th, and then Dallas, December 3rd and 4th. Go to Extreme Ownership.com. We moved a bunch of people from Orlando to Phoenix and Dallas. Those are going to sell out even quicker than normal. Everything we've ever done sold out.

So get there early if you want to. go get registered if you want to get there. And of course, we have EF Overwatch, executive leadership. If you need someone in an executive position at your team, go to EF Overwatch. We have military members that have leadership experience to plug in senior positions to plug into your organization. If you need frontline leaders or frontline troops, go to EFlegin.com. And if you're a vet, go to EFlegin.com and sign yourself up.

so we can get you employed out there in the world at companies where they cherish the military experience that you have. Also, America's mighty warriors.org, Mark Lee's mom, helping service members around the world, helping their families, and helping Gold Star families. If you want to donate or you want to get involved, go to America's mighty warriors.org. And if you want to hear more of my,

tedious explanations or you want to hear more of Echo's disjointed prattle then you can find us both on the interwebs Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at Jocko Willink and thanks to all the service members out there who are protecting us from evil and the same to police and law enforcement

and firefighters and paramedics and EMTs and dispatchers and correctional officers and Border Patrol and Secret Service Thank you for protecting us here at home. And on top of them, thanks to the doctors, nurses, and medical personnel who are risking their health to protect ours. And to everyone else out there, remember what General Omar Bradley, commander of the most American troops ever. Remember what he taught us. He taught us a lot.

And let's think about this. He taught us that there are many solutions to a problem. But any good plan executed boldly is better than indecision. So don't hesitate. Instead, pick a plan and get after it. Until next time, this is Echo and Jocko. Out.