Jocko Podcast - 277: The War Continues at Home. Fighting Demons and Finding Peace. with Dakota Meyer.

Episode Date: April 14, 2021

0:00:00 - Opening0:17:53 - Dakota Meyer2:57:22 - How to stay on THE PATH.3:27:35 - Closing GratitudeSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 277 with Echo Charles and me Jocco Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. It is again impressed upon every officer and man of this command that ground once captured must under no circumstances be given up in the absence of direct, positive, and formal orders to do so, emanating from these headquarters. troops occupying ground must be supported against counterattack and all gains held it is a favorite trick of the germans to spread confusion by calling out retire or fall back if in action any such command is heard officers and men may be sure that it is given by the enemy whoever gives such a command is a traitor and it is the duty of any officer or man who is loyal to his country and who hears such an order given to shoot the offender upon the spot. We are not going back but forward. So came the order from Major General Robert Alexander on the morning of September 26th, 1918. At the beginning of the

muse argon offensive world war one a few days later october first major charles white whittlesey was given his orders he was to advance north up uh the argon ravine go across a brook and take charlevoe mill and the purpose was to get control of this mill from which a nearby road and a nearby rail line could be controlled. And once they had that completed, they were to push on to Hill 198 to be to complete a flanking maneuver on the enemy. This assault started on October 2nd. The men woke up ate breakfast and commenced to fighting by the evening of October 2nd.

Major Whittlesley got reports that his men had found a way up Hill 1191. So they attacked. Got control of the hill. Got control of the hill with men from battalions of the 307th and 308th infantry regiments of the 154th Infantry Brigade 77th Division. Now once he got control of this hill, didn't receive any communication from the French unit that was supposed to be protecting his left flank and no communication from an American unit that was supposed to be protecting his right flank. and it's World War I there's no radios or anything where the flanks had collapsed

he didn't know this but the Germans had taken the ground Wittlesley and his men dug in created a defensive position on that hill which became known as the pocket at about 2230 that night Wittlesley realized the Germans were on Hill 205

and they were in the ravine off to his right the morning of October October 3rd, Wittlesley sent out runners to his flanks to establish communications, find out where these American and French units were. That's what you did in World War. One, when you know what was happening, you didn't have radios to call, so you sent runners, or you sent carrier pigeons.

So he sends out the runners to the left and right flank. None of them come back. Sends carrier pigeons with various messages about their position and situations. receives no communication back. And he comes to the realization that they must be completely surrounded. On the afternoon of October 3rd, the Germans attacked from all sides. One of the American company commanders, a guy named Captain Holderman, led a breakout to try and connect with allied forces,

took massive casualties, and the breakout was stopped so they're surrounded. and stuck. And the Germans attacked with mortars to get the heads down and then got closer and attacked with grenades than the Americans held. And as evening approached, the Germans backed off because while the Germans were assaulting, not only did they cause massive casualties, they received massive casualties. The morning of 4 October, the major, Major Whittlesley was worried that no one knew what his situation was. There was massive casualties. and then they begin getting shelled. They begin getting shelled by their own artillery.

And he has one last carrier pigeon left, and he launches it, and this last carrier pigeon arrives at headquarters. It's been shot through the breast. It's been blinded in one eye, and it's got one leg hanging on by a tendon. And the message says, we are along the road parallel to 276.4. Our own artillery is dropping a barrage directly on us for heaven's sake. Stop it. So the artillery stops.

And then the Germans attack again. And they're driven back once again. And there's, again, mass casualties on both sides, except for that the Americans are running low on ammunition. They don't have any food. The one water source that they had close by exposed them to German fire. And so this continues on the 5th and the 6th of October attack after attack The wounded and the dead pile up and on the 7th of October the Germans send a Blindfolded American P.O.W forward carrying a white flag and he has a note with him

Note is directed to the commanding officer of the Americans and it says the suffering of your wounded men Can be heard over here in the German lines and we are appealing to your humane sentiments to stop. A white flag shown by one of your men will tell us that you agree with these conditions. Please treat Private Lowell R. Hollingshead, the bearer of this note as an honorable man. He's quite a soldier. We envy you. Signed the German commanding officer.

and Major Whittlesley allegedly replied, You go to hell. So they hunkered down and they braced for more attacks. And then that night a relief force arrived and the Germans finally retreated. And of the 554 troops that originally attacked that hill, 190 were wounded, 63 were missing, and 107 were killed, only 194 were able to walk out. They became known as the Lost Battalion.

There were seven medals of honor awarded for this action, including one to Major Charles Wittlesley, who was immediately promoted to Lieutenant Colonel. And if you are tracking the dates here, This was in October of 1918 and the war ended a little over a month later, November 11th, 1918. And this became in America one of the most publicized events of the war. So the war ends in November of 1918. In 1919, there's a movie came out.

The movie was called The Lost Battalion. Wittlesley himself was in the film. Playing himself and it's a silent film you can go watch you can see you can see him You can see him reenacting these events And he tried to go back to civilian life He's now out of the army and he's smart and he's educated and he's has a law degree from Harvard and he added his own Law partnership before the war, but obviously things had changed And the one thing that had changed was he was, you know, a movie star and a hero.

And there was this constant demand for speeches and there were parades for him and interviews and it started to wear on him. And in November of 1921, he served as a pallbearer at the burial of the unknown soldier at Arlington National Cemetery. And a few days later, he booked a trip on a ship from New York to Havana, a ship called the SS Toloah. And he set sail on November 26th, 1921. And that night, he had dinner. He chatted with some people, about 1130 that night. He left for his state room and in the morning the stewards

knocked on his door to go into his cabin and no one answered so they entered his cabin so they could clean and they found a note and the note said to the captain of the SS Toloa dear sir my name is Charles W.W. Wittlesee 14 Wall Street New York City I'm enclosing some money and my watch. Please give $10 to each of the deck stewards, the room stewards, and the table steward. Deduct what is necessary for sending the enclosed wireless messages and send my balance to my executor, John B. Pruin to Rector Street, New York City. Please throw my suitcases and close overboard.

I don't want anything returned. and I'm writing my father that I'm making this request of you. Here are the messages I would very much appreciate you sending. One, Frank R. Wittlesley, 38 Pomeroy Avenue, Pittsfield, Massachusetts. It's your son, Charles Wittlesley, jumped overboard and was drowned yesterday. He left letters for you, mailed from Havana and notifying Pruin and Elijah Wittlesley. to John B. Pruin to Rector Street, New York City.

Charles Willisley jumped overboard and was drowned yesterday. He left a letter for you that will be mailed from Havana. I am notifying his father, Frank Wittlesley and his brother, Elisha Wittlesley, Elisha Wittlesley, 136, East 44th Street, New York City. Your brother, Charles Wittlesley jumped overboard and was drowned yesterday. He left a letter for you that will be mailed from Havana. I am notifying your father and John B. Pruin. And number four, Robert F. Little 14 Wall Street, New York City.

Look in your upper left-hand drawer of my desk for memorandum of law matters that I've been attending to. I shall not return. Will you so kindly mail these letters? I am leaving. I am very sorry to bother you with these unpleasant details, signed Charles W. Wittlesley. His body was never recovered. And they put a stone for him in the military cemetery in Pittsfield, Massachusetts. That reads, in memory of Charles Wittlesley, Lieutenant Colonel U.S. Army World War I, 1884 to 1921, Medal of Honor.

A hero and a tragedy, and you can't help but ask yourself, how does this happen? How does a story of heroism and common? Maraudery and courage. How does that turn into a story of despair and loneliness and loss of hope? And what can we learn from that story? How can we learn to avoid that tragedy, move away from the darkness and move toward the light? Tonight to discuss that with us is one of the few people in the world that can have some semblance of understanding of that story, of what Colonel Whitlesley went through. His name is Dakota Meyer

And if you don't know who he is Then just stop listening right now And go listen to podcast number 115 Dakota Meyer is a Marine He's a sniper He's a father He's a recipient of the Medal of Honor He's one of my heroes

And most important He's one of my friends Dakota Thanks for coming down, man Thanks for having me Man That's a That you know that hits home

You know, I was listening to the last time you were on this podcast, and we basically kind of closed it out after you received the Medal of Honor. I mean, we went just a little bit past it, but, you know, since then, you know, you and I have talked about things that are going on and what it was like after that. And, you know, as I read through that story of Colonel Whittlesley, You can see there's, there's definite parallels. Oh, I mean, it's, yeah, I mean, like, I, like, why you were reading it, like, I,

I mean, like, I was, like, tearing up because, like, I, like, I could just, I could feel how lonely that guy was, you know, it's, uh, yeah, I mean, you know, how do you know, how do you, like, what do you do the rest of your life? You know, like, what do you do the rest of your life? You know, like, yeah, you can keep going and give them back, but it's also a lonely road because, you know, everybody's sitting here just, first off, you don't know why they're around you, you know,

and then you don't know, and everybody loves to just, like they just want to watch you fail. You know what I mean? So that they can, in their mind, make themselves feel better. And it's like everything you do is criticized. And I just, I mean, just with how that guy did it, it's just he did it on his terms. You know, it's like, it's a, yeah, I mean, it's a lonely road. I mean, it's a lonely road.

And it's not just, it's not just, yeah, I mean, I'm nothing special. I don't look at myself as anything, is anything special. I did what I trained to do. I did what I put hope in to people to do if they were in that situation. But, you know, it's just, and honestly, I think it's even worse today with everybody being able to watch how you live your life. Like more people have their eyes on you, right? Like, you know, you get a guy who goes out and deals with PTSD or whatever, he's struggling that day. I mean, I'm scared.

I won't even go, like, I remember when I call my doctors, if I need to go talk to somebody, a therapist or something, like I come up with a route of how I can go in the back door so nobody sees me so that they can't publicize, oh, look, look, there's Dakota going, like, there's something wrong with them. You know what I mean? Like, it's just a, the standards are not, they're not, the ground's not equal now. And it's just, yeah, I mean, but also like you, you get, you get a choice. Every day is a choice. And it's like, am I going to, take this and try to give back and continue using the things that made me successful in that moment and apply it somewhere else. You know, like the most fulfillment I get is my daughters

and whenever I'm trying to help people as a firefighter. Like, it's been the best thing for me. Like, I'll never forget. There was this guy, and I talk about it in the book, there was this was one of the first times I felt, if I felt real again almost. And, um, I'll, I'll never forget. And, um, I'd help this guy, and he didn't know who I was. He didn't know me for what I'd done. He didn't know my name. I was just a guy in a uniform and there when he needed help. And he, like, thanked me and was so appreciative.

And I was like, that feels good. That feels good. He didn't have any assumption of who I was or how I was, you know what I mean? Like, that guy just needed that moment, and I could be there for him. And it shows me that I still got it, that I still got it. You know? because, I mean, you get off and like, how long do you get out of the military? We've talked about this.

How long do you get out of the military and you can still walk around with this, I'm a warrior, but you haven't even had to get in the ring? How long does that credibility still give you, I'm a warrior today, not I was a warrior, but I am a warrior. How long do you get that credibility without getting in the ring? you know and it's always a struggle that's always a struggle is do i still have it could i still do it could i still perform at that level because at the day you can't you have to say i was a warrior you know and it's like i mean you have to be tested and that's the one thing you talk david

Goggins like that guy he test himself all the time he's always pushing it but but that's like yeah I mean that's the struggle is it's like could I steal like in like the further I get away from that day in Afghanistan you know like I question myself all the time of did I how could I have done that that day but like today I don't today I can't even you know get myself to have enough discipline to go work out what happened to me do you know so when you get when you get done like how long did it take for the for the damn ceremonies and the round of interview i remember i remember you and i were talking on the phone i forget when but you were talking about like you were on 60 minutes you were on all the like every what

freaking letterman you did everything yeah how long did that did that last for you know like i was i was like it was really crazy all the way up to i got it in september 15th of 2011 through december it was crazy i mean i was on the view 60 minutes cbs sunday morning fox all the time i was on um obviously letterman um j leno i mean you go down down the list and it was i mean it was crazy i mean it was crazy and um it's still like speeches kept going like i mean you you still walk out places and people recognize you and, you know, everybody's coming at you and wanting you and this and that. And, and it was, it took me, like, I hated it. I was, I mean, when I hear people say, hey, I met you back in, but anytime, I'm like, when did you meet me? If it was

between 2011 and 2014, I apologize. First thing I says, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I was drunk the whole time. I hated it. Like, I hated it. Like, there would be times that, like, so I had a whole team around me. The Marine Corps sent, like right after they announced I was getting the medal, the Marine Corps sent out like seven people to live with me 24-7. What were they doing? Like I had a, what were they doing? I had a security guy that stayed in my house. Like he stayed with, I never, like I wasn't anywhere by myself for probably 90 days at least, 120 days. And a guy lived with a guy I live with me. They sent in like there were PR people, PAO people. Like there was three of them. And you're 23 years old.

23 years old. I was tie and steel. There's there's there's interviews. You go on the internet and there's interviews. So they sent divids out, right? So like the DOD, the Marine Corps like combat camera people like capturing this. There are images of like I refuse. I'm like no, it's not changing my life and I'm literally on a skid steer like working under a skid steer and they're interviewing me because they had to get something and I would not stop. I'm like no you can follow me but that's it so they would get up and follow me to go work at yards and stuff all day long but yeah I mean so I had all that and I mean it was just like a you know my whole life changed and and then you know it like everything was good it's like they built me up like I was I couldn't do anything wrong

And it's like when they got you the top of the mountain, it was like the pinata they raise up. And then it was just like, here came the media just as soon as you said something wrong. Or, I mean, they were just, it's the gotchas. And it was like, it was like they just build you up to just try to smash you down, right? And there was always this one reporter who was there. They just always wanted to take me a task. So it's like you just got, you had to, you just start, you take these beatings, right? and like people are like, oh, who cares?

Who cares what they say about you? Well, there's only one thing I've got in this life, and that's my name and reputation. That's the only, like when I die on my tombstone, it's not going to have any of my awards. It's not going to have anything, but the day I was born and the day I died, and it's going to say mire at the top of it.

And that's what people are going to know. That's my brand. And so I took it serious. Like when I would come home and I remember I landed one night and I landed real late in Louisville and I was driving home. And the Courier Journal had released on the front page across the state because I remember I pulled into this gas station in my hometown and it was across the state and it was a medal of dishonor with my page on the front page of the state paper, right? And they were trying to discredit everything that I had done. and it was so bad that my friends got up, like they found out about it, and they got up and they went and bought all the papers out in town.

And it was just always something, man. And it's just like you just can't, there's no rhyme or reason to it, you know? And it's just a, yeah, I mean, you get isolated. So I get what that guy said, you know, what that guy did. Because, I mean, sometimes you just, you know, what, if I can't help people and make a difference, what am I doing? What are you doing? So you say the, like, the hype train lasted from September to December. I mean, at some point, does all of a sudden those seven Marines that were there watching every move, all of a sudden, like, their duty's over.

We got mired done with whatever he needed to get done. Yeah. And then, like, one day you wake up. like dear alone yeah so we were supposed to go to so we did east coast west coast and we're supposed to a hawaii tour so it's like a we were like a weekend in new york and then a week in california and then we were supposed to go to hawaii for like a week to do press and all this right see the bases and um do the press on each coast and uh we went to new york did that so like i got the medal came home and then the week after that I was this was when all this started and uh by the time I hit California I'm like I'm out

like I on the plane to California from New York to California I said I can't I'm out I can't keep doing this um and so that was it like what was it that made you feel you're like the people just constantly talking to you I mean was it just you feel like you're put up on a pedestal and we talked about this the first time you're on here I mean basically everyone's saying hey yeah Good job. I mean, you got to take this. Like, I am literally known for the biggest failure of my life. Like, you can't change the narrative to, like, that's where people get wrong.

Is they're like, well, they justify stuff in their head. The facts are this. Like, you can't change the facts. All my team is dead. Like, I didn't get them out. whether it was rational or not, somebody can say, I'm going to do 10,000 push-ups today, and they're trying to break a Guinness Book of World Record.

Nobody looks at them and says, well, you did 500 an hour. That's good enough. They failed. I failed. My teammates are dead. Their families has unanswered questions. There's four kids that don't ever see their dad, and I'm getting paraded.

around the nation as a hero. And it's like I look at all these other Medal of Honor guys, and I'm away from them because, you know, I get, look, Kyle Carpenter, I couldn't imagine what that kid gone through. Like, you talk about a guy that's a warrior, that kid's a warrior. I don't have anything like that. And, but I tell these guys that, like, you guys did some badass stuff. You guys did badass stuff.

And you got some guys to enjoy it with. I come home, I ain't got anybody. And it's literally the biggest failure of my life. Now, with that, I've learned a lot. But I can't change the narrative because it doesn't feel good. And you started feeling this way while you're flying from New York to California. Well, I mean, I told the president that I couldn't accept the medal. I wanted them to break it down to a Navy Cross.

I told him I couldn't accept the medal because, like, he said, you're a hero. I'll never forget. President Obama told me that I was a hero, and I said, if you think I'm such a hero, why don't you call my teammates up and get their opinion? Go let them know I'm a hero. And I'm not. And that's why, like, that's why when these people are, like, trying to discredit or they're trying to say, oh, you know, whatever. I mean, I can't argue with them.

You talk about getting my ass kicked. Like, I got a Medal of Honor for getting my ass kicked. And so I just couldn't keep living this in the media of like, it just, it was a hard thing. Like, I just wasn't there yet, right? Now, I don't do it about me. I do it about my teammates, right? Like, I do it to try to show these lessons if, hey, you know, I come to this point to where I wasn't going to change it. I wasn't going to be able to get away from it.

You know, it was like, and so how do I use it to make a difference? How do I try to turn something so terrible into something good? And that's what I ended up having to do. But yeah, I got off like on the plane to, it was on the plane to L.A. It was on the plane from New York to L.A. And I remember looking at the girl who was running all my stuff, she's a rock star. You talk about a girl who, she is a rock star. and I said, we're done.

We're done. We'll finish these interviews here, but we're not going to Hawaii, and I'm going home. And landed. We did the stuff we had doing in L.A. I flew home from there, and then, I mean, I was still doing events and still doing what people wanted me to. I had a scholarship fund with the Marine Corps Scholarship Foundation.

I had this challenge to America where we would raise a million dollars to put kids through college. So, like, I was going out speaking at events for that to, like, going to private dinners to where somebody would write a huge check to the Scholarship Foundation. So I was doing that. And then, yeah, no, I didn't have any, nobody taught me what I should do, what I shouldn't do. You know, they, it was like a 23 years old just thrown to this machine that, I mean, I didn't even have an Instagram at the time, right?

Like, I didn't, I didn't know what to do. and so yeah i mean i did that i was on the speaking like i did speaking with leading authorities um broke my book with being west in 2012 and you know like speeches kept going and like events and things like that and um but just kind of just kind of going with the flow of what's next right and yeah i did some well was the marine corps when you said hey look i'm not going to hawai we're i'm done i'm done was it was a marine corps when you said hey look i'm not going to hawai we're i'm done i'm done was the Marine Corps thinking or did anybody say okay, hey, maybe we need to give Dakota some like help to get through this because he's got a massive amount of guilt over what happened.

Did anybody talk to you along those lines at all? So the Marine Corps didn't know what to do either, right? Like I was the first living Marine since Vietnam to receive the Medal of Honor. So they weren't really schooled up on it either. and there was one mistake that they made and from the beginning is and they tried to put it together

but when they put the narrative together this is what opened us up to the media to the the guy who actually was the reporter that was actually the one that just was trying to discredit everything and this was his heart this was a piece he honed on but like

in the first initial write-up they had to do, right? They put numbers in of how many people were rescued or say, whatever you want to call it, and how many people I killed, which opened it up to numbers. Which A doesn't matter and B opens it up, right? Because it doesn't really matter.

Did you kill 28 people or 72 people or 172 people? It's like it doesn't really matter. It doesn't really matter. It doesn't. Did you save? Because you can get a medal of honor for saving one person. You can get a medal of honor for killing one person. You can get a medal of honor for saving 100 or killing 100.

That's not what it's about. But if they open it up for that, all of a sudden they make it matter. And that's, and that was where it messed up. And I think like the negative stuff started coming out. And that was where. But like the reporter even says in his article, there's an article out there about it. Like, well, there's quite a few. But he even states he goes.

He was, he was, he states all these things, these discrepancies, but he goes, I'm not saying he doesn't deserve it. I actually read that article yesterday. Yeah. He said something along the lines of not that these actions alone don't fully warrant the Medal of Honor. So what the hell are you doing? Yeah. God. So it's those things that like, you know, a guy like me and like you, you have, you've had to talk me down.

A guy like me, all I've known my whole life, like there's only one thing I'm good at, and it's fighting. It's all I know. Like I have been, it's all I know. You know what I mean? Like, it's the only thing that's made me successful at anything is that I was willing to fight and I was willing to work. And you put those things in a spot where there's people who are poking.

It's not a good. It's not a good thing, right? And so, like, I had to back up, you know, get myself together. I was drinking too much. Like, I was just trying to deal with all of it. I mean, imagine walking into a room and everybody wants to talk to you about the worst day of your life. Like, over and over and over. And it's like, you don't have to.

It's not about going home and not dreaming about it. It's about I'm walking into rooms and I'm sitting here literally. reliving it over and over and over, which is okay. But I just think that like sometimes the worst day of my life is somebody else's entertainment. I wish I would have pulled this quote, Major Whittlesley, he was at like a dinner and spoke at the dinner. He sits down with his friends and the friends were talking and they said something along the lines of he said exactly what you just said exactly what you just said he said something along the lines of every time i talk about this i go right back there and i can't get away from it yeah yeah like yeah yeah i mean i just i mean look i'm i

still today i miss my guys i mean you know i i i just seen that one of my like one of my teammates It's his daughter, she's about to have a baby. And, you know, you just, it's just crazy. You know what I mean? It's like I get to sit here and enjoy my two beautiful daughters who are more than I ever deserve. I get to hang around such amazing people and I get to live a beautiful life and all these things.

And, you know, it's just, it's not a fair world, you know. it's not and that's that was always the thing you know struggle for me to deal with and you know how do you give back how do you continue to give back right like what look I mean yeah how do you get back right so yeah so like the Marine Corps left they went on their own way honestly they kind of separated from me I didn't hear much from them again uh probably two and a half two two and a half years I didn't hear much from them it was like mission complete for them it was like hey let's separate from this because I don't know if this thing's going to be a hang grenade or you know what's going to happen. Isn't it weird? You know you said earlier like for this guy you said it's

worse today right because everyone there's you know word travel so fast and all this stuff but you would think man like at least people understand the concept of survivor guilt and post-traumatic stress like at least we understand those things. And yet, it seems like, you know, if I, when someone goes through something like this, you got to, like, give them some support, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, like, how do you do that when everybody looks at you like a hero?

Do you know, how many times have you been in a situation with a group of people knowing damn well that you all, you are all as scared as it gets? and but it's like as long as you keep your poker face on you could literally be the thing that breaks them where everybody's going to be like no you just confirmed their fears or you you are the thing that keeps them going and and you know I I just always took it as this is my I got the medal, and that's my punishment for letting my teammates get killed. This is my punishment to be paraded in front of all the people as a hero, the exact opposite of what I am. And that was my punishment. That was what the universe or God, whoever you want to think about it, this was what I got for failing that day.

And that was kind of how it was, you know. And so like anytime I got to give a speech or talk to people and tell them the realities of it, you know, I just wanted them to know that, hey, look, you can get your ass kicked and get back up from it. And that's what the story is. My story is not a story of a guy who is some high speed, low drag. You know, my story is a story of a guy who got his ass kicked and has had his ass kicked his whole life and has who lives a life of success. he has found a way to make success out of a shit ton of failures. And that's kind of what it is, you know.

But yeah, the Marine Corps went away and then I started hiring my own people. When you say hiring your own people, what kind of people? So, like, I had agents, right? So I had a book agent, a book and movie agent with ICM. Sloan, Sloan Harris was a great guy. I had, you know, obviously with the speaking agency, I had security people that I would keep on me and not really for anything other than to protect me from myself, right?

Like, because you know, I walked in, I mean, I would walk in somewhere and like we'd be drinking and somebody would say something, I would hit them. And you know what? That's a lawsuit now. You know what I mean? I had, you know, assistance. I mean, you know, people who would kind of handle me to get me to where I need to be. I mean, it was a crazy, it was a crazy time.

I mean, it was crazy. And that was all the way up until probably 2014. And then it just, I kind of just, I was like, I just want to get away from it. And I started backing off. And, you know, I was so fortunate that I've been with Toyota since 2011. And, you know, you talk about Ed Lauchess, and you talk about Don Esmond, and you talk about, like, all these incredible people inside of Toyota. Like, these people, like, met me.

And they've mentored me the whole way. Like you talk about sticking with me through thick and thin and believing in a cause of, of, you know, of helping veterans and just, like, you take them out of, you know, if I hadn't met them in 2012, you know, 2012, there's no telling where I'd be. So those guys were kind of helping you guide you through all this. Yeah.

And former Marines? So Don Esmond was a Marine. He was in Vietnam, a pilot. in Vietnam. He was a Medevac pilot. So he's got over 900 missions shot down Silver Star recipient. I mean, but he was he was the I think it was the C.O. of Toyota and we, you know, I got in contact with them and they brought me on as they were they got with this program called hiring our heroes that I work with and helping veterans get back to work. and but it was more personal for them.

It wasn't a business thing for them. Like they took me in and then, you know, Ed Laoccus, his mom and dad both were in World War II and Marines. And so it was just like it was crazy how I got there to them. And they, you know, gosh, you talk about 2011, 2012, Dakota. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that when you were the hand grenade that the Marine Corps was scared you were? Listen, you take those people out of my life, you know, John Liscoe, and they didn't have to do it. And, you know, you just find these people.

Yeah, you know, when you say these people like helped you out, there's always people that ask me, hey, how can we help veterans? And, you know, it's really easy to say, like, give two charity, which is awesome for sure. but in terms of what is helpful and what you're talking about is like actually form relationships with people so that you can see where you can help them and you can provide them the help and support that they need. Yeah. There's a big difference between me writing a check and saying, okay, I feel better about myself because I wrote a check to whatever foundation, which again, that's good. But if you want to go next level, form some relationships with some people.

And look, veterans have. Especially like you, like me when I was young, right? You have no, I didn't really have any experience in the world, right? I was institutionalized. It was just, I just knew the military, that's me, that's my life. So if I would have gotten out when I was 23, 24 years old, I wouldn't know what to do. So someone that's a civilian, that's a little older, if you form a relationship with someone, and look, I can tell you, it's not going to be easy.

Oh, no. I can almost guarantee that being. trying to mentor and guide 23-year-old Dakota. There's going to be challenging. It's like having a freaking teenage boy. Yeah. That's old enough to drink and has money. Yeah.

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And that was it, right? Like, you know, you talk about Ed. I mean, I keep talking about Ed Lauchess. And, like, you talk about a guy who just, I mean, he was like, I mean, he was like a second dad. You know what I mean?

Like he, you know, his wife, Karen, just, I mean, I actually, I just call her mom, you know? And you talk about anything. I mean, just, they went out of their way and I was so lucky. But, you know, that's the one thing that I have to say, if I've ever been good at, you know, all the way growing up, I've always been able to find great, like, I've always had this way of finding great people and knowing who good people were, who I should try to be like. I was really good at figuring those out and in making them believe in me, right? Like I was, that's the only, that's the only power I really have is, is that I can, I know who I, who's, who's, who's, who's, who I should be like. And I find a way to get them to help get me there. And then always having great mentors. I've had that from day one. I've been, I've been so fortunate to have that, right? And that's what's got me, I mean, even still today, even still today, that's the pieces that keep me. going and keep getting me better and keep helping me grow and learn and develop you know and that's that's been my key to to success or whatever you call it to still being here right um is those people

you know i'm just a i'm just a product of the people who who are around me they should get the credit for any successes i have you know and that's how it is so when when you uh in the book in into the fire you you I mean you had the lowest of low points right you're in your freaking truck and and you're you basically try and kill yourself but luckily someone uh pulled around out of the pulled around out of the chamber so your your weapon wasn't chambered round wasn't chambered then you get the metal then you're on like a there's a little lift you're getting the metal you're getting all this attention do you go back down to a low point at some point at some point yeah yeah I mean I mean I think like if yeah yeah I mean it's it's always like a

it's like a roller coaster I mean I don't know what it causes it you know I mean like there's some days I wake up and I'm just like me I don't even want to get out of bed like I don't even want to get out of bed and why I don't know but yeah I mean after I got the metal I was in the lowest of lows I mean it was the lowest of lows I mean it was just I would literally like I'll never forget this one time. He was actually going to my speaking agency. Well, you talk about the day the president called me to come have a beer with him. Like, I was standing, I can remember I was standing speaking to some Marines.

I won't say where, but I was speaking to some Marines at an event. And I was hammered. Like, it was probably 9, 10 a.m. in the morning. And I'm not talking about, like, buzzed. I'm talking about like Dakota was drunk. I would get up in the morning before interviews, like the five, six a.m. interviews, and I'd be taking shots on the way to the studio. And, like, I was standing there, and I'll never forget, like, whenever they said for me to come over and have a drink.

So the girl who used to take care of me, her name was Jeanette. Jeanette looked at me, and, like, her face, like, melted. She's like, I hope they don't give you sobriety test before you go in. Like, we have to sober you up. She literally started making me pound waters to try to get me sober enough to go into the White House. And, I mean, that was how I lived. Like, I just, I couldn't, like, I hated it. I couldn't take it, you know.

I mean, I could, but I just hated what it was about. It wasn't about the work or about the workload. It was just, I was literally just living this, this nightmare. And, you know, they were rock stars. And, but yeah, I mean, how was the shit show? So how long did you stay in that mode for? Probably until like 2014. And then what happened in 2014?

Did you realize something? What happened? I just stayed like I kind of seen that like I needed to get my shit together. You know, I was going out and I kind of had a turn of like I, look, I wasn't going to be able to change it. Like I wasn't going to be able, I realized I wasn't going to be able to outdrink it. and how do I turn into something positive, right? And I just, I had this dream to be able to, somebody asked me one time, they're like,

what do you want to do? And I'm like, honestly, I just want to change the world. And I know it sounds crazy, right? It sounds so crazy, but when I looked real deep into why have I done, like the stuff I did in Afghanistan, you know, like I didn't do it for me. I didn't do it. Everything I did was ultimately down

of trying to make the world that I was part of just a little bit better. Like anytime I handed out soccer balls to the kids or I went out in front of the gate, you know, I was just trying to make their day a little bit better. Show them a different perspective. When I was taking a shot

and I was trying to take a guy out or I was going in and they were asking for help and, hey, we need security in this village to help us out. the Taliban's doing this or that, I literally just wanted to make the world just a little bit better. And if that's truly my core purpose, why I can do that here? It's no different. One of the things that I've been talking about in a bunch of different ways lately is this idea of being caught in like an echo chamber in a feedback loop.

And you hear it in the social media world because if you're a super liberal person, you just see a bunch of super liberal stuff. If you're a super conservative person, you just see a bunch of conservative stuff. It happens in a leadership position because if you're in a leadership position and you have an idea and everyone just is a yes man and says, yep, yep, yeah, you're great boss. That sounds like a great idea and you go forward. You're only hearing, you don't get any other input. And it happens to people's mentalities too where, you know, they have a bad day and then they think, well, today was so bad and tonight's going to be bad too. And then tomorrow's going to be bad. And I don't, they, they get caught in this echo chamber of, of reinforcing the same thoughts over and over again.

And that's fine if they're good thoughts. But when it's a negative thought and just like, you know, when you do feedback with a microphone into an amplifier, right? It just turns into a freaking squeal and you can't get out of it until you either shut that thing off or you get that microphone away. So, you know, you were, it sounds like you were in that mode. but then you thought to yourself, you know, it's a pretty, what you just said of like realizing, hey,

I can't change it. Why did I do it? What can I do to move forward? Like that's a huge step away from, it takes a lot of strength to break out of this negative attitude. And what sucks is you meet people and they're freaking trapped in there.

And it's, it's I don't know I don't know if you can actually manually I don't know if I can manually go to you and say hey you're in an echo chamber right now and get you out of it yeah I think sometimes I think it may be that the person has to do that for themselves well I always say like you you can either like sometimes sometimes you find yourself in the middle of nowhere in the middle of nowhere and sometimes times in the middle of nowhere you find yourself. And, yeah, I mean, I think what's even, what's even more dangerous is when you start drinking your own Kool-Aid, right? Like, when you're not looking at everybody else and kind of getting a feeling off of it, and then you surround yourself with a bunch of yes people, like, like, and then you only get, that you start drinking your own Kool-Aid, I mean, what happens like, yeah, you can live off of in a survival situation, drinking your own urine, but what happens if you drink it five times over? It's dead. You're dead.

It's all, you know, and I think that's dangerous. Yeah. Well, actually, it's the same. It's the same mechanism. It's just a different one's positive, one's negative. If you go and just positive, positive, positive, you'll spin out and you'll think you can't be stopped and you think you can do nothing wrong. If it's negative, negative, negative, you don't think you can do anything right. And the reality is for everybody, we do some right, we do some wrong. We make some mistakes. We have some wins. We have some losses. We move forward. We take a couple steps back. We move. We move. forward again but people that think oh every step I take is going to move me forward and everyone's you know everyone's following me because I'm awesome or nothing I

can do can move me forward it's not the way life is it's not one or the other it's both and people get stuck there in one or the other you know I think though the negative one is the one that look the positive one it seems like you what happens with the positive one is when you follow off that train, you at least you fall onto, you have a little distance to fall and you're going to be okay. You have like enough room to pull your reserve.

Yeah. When you're at the bottom, you're already on your reserve. You're on your reserve. And you burn in. And that's what I was on, right? Like I just, it was just everything was negative around me, the alcohol. I mean, it was just, everything was negative, right? I mean, I'm waking up literally only talking about my teammates' death. And, I mean,

it was just, everything was negative. I mean, it was. And I, I, you know, I just had to pull myself out of it. I don't know of one situation that just like, boom, smacked me out of it. I will say this, like, ultimately, one of the biggest changing points in my life was when I had my daughter. That was whenever the drinking quit. Like, that was whenever I took it and I said, I said, you know what, it's not about me. I know I'm not the best person in the world and, you know, I, I, but I tell you this, my daughter

didn't choose to come in this world. She didn't choose to come in in the circumstances that she came in under. And it is my obligation to ultimately give her and wake up every day and strive to be the father that that young girl deserves. And that's it. It really is that simple. And so that was whenever the drinking just went to a halt. But then there was a whole slew of problems after that, right?

Of now I'm not dealing with my anxiety or my issues with drinking. Now they're coming to light. So, you know, now it was kind of having to face the true reality of this, not taking the Band-Aid. I mean, drinking is no different than taking pills. I mean, it's just another form of it, right? and so that was a whole other problem but but I got to look at that little girl and like that was that is you know Sailor and Attlee are by far I need them way more than they could ever need me you know what I mean like and and they changed my life for the better and they still do every day

because ultimately that's what the man that I am I have to be a good man because I want my daughters to find good man, and I want them to know what a good man looks like. And I want, if they start dating shitty guys someday, it's probably because I'm a shitty guy. I want to set the example to them of hopefully what they strive to go find and marry someday. And I have to wake up and be that.

Yeah, it's weird from being in the military. the perspective for me because I was, you know, a young, enlisted guy. I was going to say young dumb. And yes, I was a young dumb, enlisted guy. And the more I moved up in the ranks, all of a sudden you're like responsible for people. And there was no overnight like transition for me, you know,

because I was enlisted. And then I became an officer and I was a junior officer. But it wasn't like I, I'm an officer now and now I need to or, you know, I'm in charge of this training. event and so I need to know it wasn't like an overnight thing but I realized that hey all these guys are counting on me to do do my job to make good decisions to give them the support that they need like that's all on me all on me 100% and so slowly over time I started acting more and more like a freaking responsible human instead of like a complete freaking savage when I was a freaking younger team guy

Yeah. And so I just got, you know, I just, you know, grew. And then obviously, yeah, when I had kids, it's like, oh, now there's people that also rely on me 100% for everything. For everything. And they're looking at me as an example of how they should be acting and what they should be looking for. Yeah. Yeah.

It's big. So you, did you stop drinking like cold turkey? I did. When Sailor was born, I pretty much cut it out to cold turkey. Yeah, I mean, I was like, yeah. I mean, I was, I was in a custody battle first off. So out of the gate. I mean, I wasn't even, I mean, yeah, I mean, yeah, I wasn't there when Sailor was born.

And I got to meet her like three months later. And so, you know, with the custody battle, it was, look, I'll take 90% of it my fault. Me and Bristol didn't get along. She went back to Alaska what didn't work out, right? And so I wasn't there for the birth. And so finally after three months of fighting and all the stuff that people do, right? And look, I'm sure I calls my amount of it. me to say that up front. I'm definitely not an easy person to live with. You know, I finally got to

meet her and I mean, I'll never forget. Like I flew up. I flew up on an airplane. So first off, after I realized that sailor was born, I went, it was on the 23rd, or she was born on the 23rd. And so Christmas that year was 20, Christmas Eve was on a Thursday and Christmas was on Friday that year. I went up that Saturday as soon as the stores opened back up, and I went ahead and bought all of her stuff to have in my house. I didn't know when I'd get to see her or anything like that if she'd ever even get to come to Kentucky, but, like, I was a dad, so I was going to be a dad,

and I had no clue of how to change a diaper or anything. And then I went to this month-long, it's like an online nanny school, and I became a certified nanny and infant care specialist. So I was, like, doing these classes. I was doing these classes, right, of how to swaddle, like learning about all these things that kids do, right? And, I mean, I just never wanted to, it wasn't my daughter's fault. So, like, I never wanted to not be what she needed if she needed it.

And so, like, I needed to spend my mindset was, is I needed to, you know, I'm a dad and I need to try to, even if I'm not with her, I need to be training to do something to be able to, to, to, to, to, to give her the life that she deserves. And, man, three months into it, I got to meet her. And so I fly up there. And what I would do is I would fly to Alaska. You're like, I'm going to put this training to the test. Yeah, to the test. Like I had all this stuff.

Like, man, like, I knew like the five S's of like, you know, how to get a child to like, you know, to calm down, like all this stuff. I was a master. I had this like little baby doll that I used to swat him practicing, right? Crazy. I know. I know it's nuts. So I fly up there

And so I would fly to Alaska every other weekend And I would raise her for four days out of a hotel room A three-month-old and from Kentucky And so I would go up there and I got her man The first time I laid eyes on her That was it Like I got on the plane coming home after those four days And I just said hey I'm getting rid of everything in Kentucky

And even if I just have to work at McDonald's, I'm going to Alaska and I'm going to raise this kid. I don't want anything else. I don't want another life. I don't want anything else. I don't care if I just have to live in a car or a box on the side of the road, I'm going to raise this kid. And I'm going to be the best dad that I can be. And so I started figuring out, right?

I went home and literally started looking at assets of how to close everything down and leave. And yeah, so that was kind of that. and I just go up there. And then after that, you know, like a little ways into it, we stopped fighting. And me and Bristol decided to get married, and we got married and, you know, had another kid. And then it went to shit. And all this stuff, you were, this is like tabloid, tabloid material. Yeah, all tabloid.

This is just tabloid material, too. Yeah. So you. Yeah, like if you look at the tabloids now, like they don't refer to me as a middle of honor, They refer to me as Bristol Palin's ex. So you guys get married, which, you know, you're doing the best you can. You know, people do what they're going to do. You're trying to figure things out.

Yeah, I mean, we tried. Look, I mean, Bristol's not a bad person. You know, she's the mother of my children. She gave me the most beautiful things in the world. Like, my kids are healthy. They're beautiful. They are the best thing that I have. and I owe her for that

I owe her for all that you know I'm not an easy person to live with like let me tell you I'm I'm not so yeah so we got we got our beautiful kids so where did you move once you got once you guys got married so I I we got married and I literally packed up two

suitcases and left for Alaska and I never came home I just moved in with her and I would fly to the States just as I was on going to give speeches across Canada. I lived up there for a year and then we moved to Austin. And how are you doing, like at that point, are you starting to sort of process everything that happened? Are you starting to be like, okay, these people are calling me a hero,

but I have an opportunity to be able to explain to them my perspective of it? When you're starting to kind of put this together in a way that was more manageable for you, No, I mean, it's still not, right? Because everybody wants to argue with me. You know, it's like, no, no, like understand I'm a failure. Oh, no, you did everything you could. Like, shut up. You know what I mean?

Like, no, it's still that way. And, you know, and it's just, no, it's still not. It's still not back. You know, people still, they hold me in this regard that I'm like, that I'm something that I'm, like, that I'm something that I'm, I'm no different than anybody else. You know, I was listening to something you said. I was listening to your podcast, actually.

And you were saying something along lines of, hey, you know, I received the Medal of Honor, but I don't want to let that define me. I don't want that to be like the thing that I'm known for. And I started thinking to myself, you and me know how freaking completely random war is. Like, you don't know what the hell is going to happen. There's nothing way to predict anything.

you could have done that deployment. That mission could have got scrubbed for 10,000 reasons that night. It could have gone and the Taliban could have not been there. There's like a million things. And so really there's a role of the dice that you were in this situation. The way it went down, you didn't get killed, you know, like it's just, it's so random that if you did hang your hat on that one thing, it's like, that's like saying, hey, that's like, that's like I won the lotto. Yeah. So you should, you know, that means I'm smart or whatever.

Like, you know, it's, you can't really. Or you should let me pick your numbers for all your lottery tickets. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. So I was thinking about that, like you can't let it define you because if you do let it define you, then you're, you're defining yourself on the fact. It's like, it's like defining yourself on, you know, how tall you are.

Yeah. It's like, hey, you know, that's just how tall you are. Nothing you can do about that. Now look, obviously you took actions that that were conscious decisions to go do what you had to do, but you're right in the fact that if you let that one thing to find you, you're hanging your hat on something that's kind of random. Well, exactly, right? But it's also, I mean, it's also like, like, what if, what if, like, a fighter gets in

the ring and he gets a win? I mean, whether, like, he got a knockout and it was one hit and it was a, I mean, are those hits lucky, right? I mean, you know what I mean? Like, like, could you, can you really walk into a ring and say you're going to, like, and knock people? You know what I mean? Like, some of that is the same, right? Some of it is this guy, just, he, if he didn't break this, you know what I mean?

Like, that's why the games are played, right? It's why football teams are not fantasy. You know what I mean? Like, that's why the game is played. And so, like, for me, it was like, yeah, that day, that day if it comes down to fighting I fought my ass off

I'll say that I fought as hard as I could but that was one day of my life what about the rest of them you know like that day's done that's behind me well what's next right like I mean I was in a gun fight

four days later that I felt like was worse than that one you know what I mean obviously I like lost my teammates, which sucked. But as far as like, I mean, the next one was a harder one for me to pick out than the first one, right? And nobody knows about that. I mean, I still kept fighting. We've gotten a ton of fights after that. And so, like, you just can't be defined by that. You know, you're only as good as your next tip bad. And it's like you can't, you can't let your

failures define you and you can't let your successes define you. Both of them are are nothing more than moments in time. Yeah, that's, that was kind of my, I don't want to call it a setup, but like, it's one thing. It's one thing. And even though you feel like, oh, I failed that night, it's like, yeah, that was one, that was one thing. I did.

And so to say you don't want to define yourself by receiving this one award, it's also you can't define yourself by the fact that that day, you didn't win. exactly but it still doesn't change the results of the day right like and at the end of the day those have all taught me valuable lessons you know there you can't like and hear me out on this but like life is nothing more than like a uh you're going to laugh when i define it when i say this life is nothing more than... I'm looking forward to this.

You know like at Halloween, they have those... We're off to a good start. Okay. Scary houses, right? Or those, those, those whatever, those houses that...

Haunted houses. Haunted houses, right? You can call them scary houses. Whatever. So, life is like, that's life. After you've walked through

that haunted house once, does it get you again? No. So that's life, right? Like, life is full of these things that are not real that scare us because we've never seen them or we've never seen them in that place or whatever, right?

We wasn't expecting it coming there. So it kind of shakes us for a second. But you got one or two options. After you've seen it, you can either, okay, I got it. You're there. You got me on that one. But if I walk through this house again, you don't have me, right? And in that life?

Like, that's life, right? And, you know, so like that day, I got, the cool part is, is like, that day is my kryptonite. I'm not going to say that I could never see anything worse because, you know, obviously, it could always be worse. But, man, at 21, 21, I got to walk through one of the scariest damn houses that life could throw at me. I'm going to tell you right now, I got to sit here and look death right in the eyes.

I never thought I never thought I would make it out I got to look at that so I don't have to worry about it. Every day is a bonus day for me I didn't think I was going to live past September 8th, 2009 I got to sit here and see the very best of human beings I got to see the very worst

I got to see what I would do if somebody had a gun to my head I got all these things out of the way in one day that most people go through their whole life wondering what they would do you know, I got that out at 21. What do I have to worry about going into the next house? You know what I mean?

I got my ass beat, all of it. You're not going to beat my ass worse than that. So I don't have to worry about it. You know, the most dangerous guy in the room is the guy that doesn't care to lose. And I can tell you, I don't care to lose. You know, and that's my kryptonite. that's like my power or whatever right like that's my and i'm so fortunate to have gotten that out of the way at 21 years old because it's allowed me to go live the life that i've lived right

i get to man i jump out of airplanes i fly airplanes i fly helicopters i i do it and it's like i get to do it because and i get to go talk to people about what it's like i get to go tell people it's all good you can do this right and so it's kind of a it's good it's a good thing so where does like um i know a while ago you know you had like anxiety yeah what even is that what does that feel like what happens where's it come from what do you know about it so i didn't even know i didn't even know what I didn't even know I had anxiety. I guess like you just kind of get used to feeling this way. And I, it got so bad, like, after I moved to Alaska when the drinking stopped, that, like,

I would wake up throwing up. I would grind my teeth so hard, like, my teeth on the back are caps. And, like, I would, I have veneers, and I would knock my teeth off with veneers. Like, I'd knock them off by grinding my teeth. I mean, I'd wake up and I'd be throwing up. I would be sweating in bed, crying my eyes out, like, just can't sit down, can't, like, I would try to run it off. I can't run it off, can't lay down.

Like, it just, it was like, I'm like, what's wrong with me? You know what I mean? What is wrong? I don't even know what's going on. And I find out this is an anxiety attack. And, you know, I just, I started dealing with it. I had a real bad anxiety attack. But I didn't want to go to the hospital because, like, the VA gave me the option of, the VA gave me an option of, I call them up, okay?

I call them up and I'm like, hey, I need to, like, I just need to see somebody. And they're like, what do you have a case manager? I said, I don't. Like, I live in Alaska. I don't. And they're like, okay. Now, I'm a metal of honor recipient. I mean, I've got pretty high status in the VA.

as far as the statuses they have, right? Like they have these little levels or whatever. I imagine you've got to be pretty high up there, yeah. So like I ask them, I'm like, I just need to see somebody, like maybe to give me like some blood pressure medicine or something to help me get this. Just get through this. I just need to get something to get through it. I don't want any, like, I'm not asking for Xanax's or whatever, right?

And they go, well, if you don't have a case manager, then we'll have to get you one of those. And then after you get seen with the case managers, then what we'll do is that case manager will get you a doctor. and then after you meet with a doctor, then they'll get you to a psychiatrist, and then you'll be able to get some help for it. I said, well, how long is that going to be? Probably four to six weeks.

And I said, I don't have four to six weeks. And the woman on the phone, she said, well, you can always come check yourself into the psych ward. And I was like, I don't need that. There's no way. These are my options. And so I called one of my buddies, and he knew a doctor. And the doctor was like, they gave me like some blood pressure medicine that usually some people take for anxiety. Started taking it.

And then fortunately they sent me this thing called the alpha stem. And it clips on your ears. And when they sent it to me, I wouldn't even open it. I was so mad that somebody sent this to me because I was like, you really think, you really, this is what you think my level of anxiety. is you think it's a joke I'm picturing the thing that um the time travel machine that kit puts on his head in Napoleon dynamite something like that so finally one day I'm sitting there and I've got anxiety and um and it's like it feels like your chest is just like something sitting on your chest does it come from like thoughts no I don't know like is it a physical thing is it a

mental thing physical it's a fit like it's all physical Like, you'll feel like you're having a heart attack. And you could be watching the freaking cartoons with your kids. I mean, I could be just sitting in my truck. Sitting your truck, nothing just. And all of a sudden, you feel this. Yeah, you can, I can feel it coming. Is it the same as a panic attack?

Same thing. But do you feel like you're, like, worried about something consciously or? I think it lives in your subconscious. Yeah. You know, like, you can't, no, I mean, I would be, I mean, I would be, I mean, I mean, I would be fine. And then like it just all of a sudden hit. And it's like, it's like, oh gosh.

Like you can feel it coming and you just, how do I get rid of this? And I think it's a subconscious piece, right? Like, that's why like it comes out mostly when I'm sleeping. Because I can't consciously control what I'm thinking about. And when I go to sleep, whatever in your brain needs to come out is coming out. Are you dreaming? Are you having nightmares? Yeah.

And the nightmares like trigger this and usually when the cure for it because you said the case advisor would send you to a doctor, the doctor would send you to a psychiatrist. Yeah. So ultimately is that what they're looking to do to you is give you some kind of psychiatric medicine. You know, X is clotopin. And these are things that like mellow you out. Yeah. Or something allegedly. Del zombie you.

and get you addicted to them. Yeah, that was zombie you. Because they're going to numb the pain. They're going to numb the thoughts that are causing this stuff. Yeah. Yeah, and, yeah, I mean, it's just, it's like you get on that. It's a slope, right? It's a slope of, you know, well, after you start taking that, then, you know, you start getting depressed, right?

Because, I mean, imagine, you know, and that was always my problem. Like, if I took, if I took colotopin or anything like that, well, you have a hangover the next day. and then I didn't feel like working out so then I don't feel like working out so then it's like a depressed it's like this slope of just then you know when you get depressed and you start you know you can't work out

or you don't feel your normal self then you're like well I'm broken and it's just like this downward slope of just it's like hey you know what like I don't I'm not scared to look at it I'm not scared to look my demons in the eyes but like when it turns into something like mentally I can deal with it.

It's when it starts coming out physically as it starts getting you, right? So back to the earlobe freaking machine. So the alpha stem, I finally put it on and it would like melt it away. It would like melt it away. So you start feeling it, go hook it up. I'd hook it up 20 minutes at night before I went to bed.

I'd sleep better. Yeah, it was awesome. And then I met this person. She worked with the guys out at Fort Bragg. I met her one, and she's like, hey, you need to try this. It's called a Stella Ganglion Block. Actually, a seal, Sean Mulvaney, Dr. Mulvaney.

I'm like, come on, everybody's promised me the world with this stuff. She's like, go do it. SGB. SGB. And so I fly out. I was at rock bottom again. Like, it was just, you're just just frustrating that I can't operate. How often are you having these anxiety attacks?

Twice a week. And they're freaking crippling. I'm talking about throwing up in the floor. Like I'm talking about. How long they last for? An hour, 45 minutes an hour. And you have no idea when they're going to hit. No.

And there's no going back to sleep after them. right like there's no yeah um and i'll never forget my daughter my daughter looked at me one time we were actually on the road me and her traveling and um so like i would be scared like i never liked the kids to sleep in the bed with me because i never wanted my daughters to see me like that and um and there were there were a lot of nights that i would sleep in my car in the best by parking lot um probably about three years ago four years ago three years ago i was sleep in the best by parking lot because I didn't want anybody to see me see me like that if I felt like I was getting anxiety. And are you still married at this time?

Yeah. And is there any like, how's that going? Is it just like you guys are just trying to figure it out? Yeah, and it doesn't help. You know, she can't. I mean, she doesn't, you know, she's, look, we got three kids and, you know, she's watching. I mean, how could you be married to somebody like that? How could you be married to somebody who, you know, you.

look at and like you don't understand their anxiety so like you're kind of like what's wrong with this person you know what I mean like this guy's just this week you know what I mean it's like it's not a it's not something it's hard to understand you know and and I'll never forget like me and sailor were traveling we're actually at a marine base and I'd been speaking to a bunch of Marines and she was with me and she was having to sleep in the bed with me at you know on the road and I will that night I woke up and I was throwing up and I was sitting on the side of the bed crying and like my I knocked two of my teeth off my and they came off and like she I honestly forgot she was in the bed and um man she got up and like she like patted me on the back and she said uh uh it's okay daddy like I know you're a good

daddy and uh man it was that was that was a tough one right you know like it was just uh and so i then i was like i got to do something different you know like i was getting the stella gangling blocks quite a bit so you i cut you off or whatever but so how was that first one that you went got the needle went in so i was laying on this hot this bed so the process is that they stick a needle into some part of your neck brain? So your neck. So like they do it under ultrasound and like they stick this needle on

and it's like it's a block and it goes on your it goes on one of your nerves and it's like a reset. And man, as soon as before the needle was even out, I remember I was looking at, I was like literally looking at the ceiling and I didn't want anybody to talk

because I got, I couldn't believe that I could feel this way. Like there was like the world, the weight of the world was off my shoulders. Like the anxiety was gone. Like it was, like I didn't know you could feel like that. And I was just the next morning, like I was taking a shower. And I was, I caught myself like laughing and singing in the shower.

And I was like, this is like amazing. And so I did that and that worked for a while. What's it blocking? So I guess what it does is is you have, you have, this is how I was explained to me was, is you have your automated, basically like where you automatically do things like breathing, things. You don't have to think about blinking. And then you have your where you have to, like your manual side of your nervous system.

Right? Like we're, okay, I want to pick this cup up. I have to think about that and do it. So fight or flight is supposed to be, I recognize you as a threat. You're a threat now. so I recognize that. Now I go into fight or flight. And what happens is

when we've been in that mode for so long, your mind just starts to adapt and it puts it over into the automated side. And so that's where you get these guys who are automatically back in that fight or flight. They automatically go back there because their brain has shoved it in that system. So you're kind of like a,

imagine with your cell phone, If it's running wrong or an app's running wrong, what do you do? You reboot it. Shut her down, yeah. Well, that's what this block does, is it doesn't really shut it down, but it kind of helps you reboot your system. And that's Dr. Mulvaney was one of the first guys to ever give this for PTSD. And what he did was, is he went, he was, I guess he was at this clinic. And he was seeing all these symptoms that pregnant women were having when they were going through pregnancies.

and they were giving this, I guess, for some piece of it. And he's like, well, this is kind of, these symptoms are kind of, let me try it for this. And like, it's been huge. I'm saved so. I mean, it's saving lives. Like, a lot of the guys get it, you know, and it helped me for a long time. Yeah, I got some people that have been reaching out to me to talk about it and maybe have some of the experts on here to kind of explain it so more people can understand it.

Yeah. And actually when they approached me, I said, well, I got a friend that had it. And I actually asked you. And I said, hey, did you get that thing? You said, how was it? And I said, how was it? You said, it's freaking awesome. Awesome.

So that kind of opened my mind up and said, all right, you know, if I can help spread the word on this, then let's do it. Yeah. And, you know, like all these things are, like, let me say this. Like, the alpha stem, it was great. It was great. It was great. The Stella gangling block, like all these things, they work.

It's just a matter of how long they work, right? Like the alpha stem, I'd have to use it pretty much every day, right? The stella gangling block, I mean, sometimes I would go six months without getting one. Sometimes I'd have to go three months. You know, it just, it's about the longevity of how long they worked, you know? And honestly, none of it's going to fix it. You have to fix it yourself. Like these are all, I call them, they're kind of like flashbangs.

They're the flashbangs of life. It's going to, you're going to throw that flashbang in there, and it's going to give you some time to get on the offense and where they're on the defense, right? So you better make, you better fix it of whatever's causing it. You better get in there and start doing work as soon as it, as soon as you get it, right? It's not a, you're not going to sit here and take it and, you know, you'd not have to go home and work on your life and work on the way you think about things.

You know, you got work to do when you. So, yeah, so what's that work look like? Because when you, I know what I do and I throw off. flashbang in the room, I know what to do next. I know what that work is. What's the work that you're talking about? I mean, look, some people want to go do some counseling, right? Going to talking to people.

What I say when people go to counseling, I say, I tell people, if you don't have goals, don't go to counseling. Like, don't go into counseling and think that it's going to be somebody else fixing it for you. It's kind of like calling up a trainer and thinking that you, you know, you can go the best gym, you can have the best trainer and the best nutritionist, but you still got to put in the work, you still got to eat the right food, and you still got to show up and do it, right? And it's kind of the same thing with counselors. Know what you want changed. You know, really look at a, take a hard look in the mirror and it starts with accountability. And like a lot of people want to avoid

accountability because as soon as you recognize, as soon as you say and look in the mirror and say, hey, I'm fat, well, then you've made a conscious choice not to do something about it. And, So for me, like, I know that I have to get, like, usually I look in the mirror and I start seeing who I'm surrounded by. Like when I start going down that road, the first thing I look at, where am I spending my time? And that usually tells me the most of it, right? So I'll back off of that. And then I just start, I start, you know, if I need to go to counseling, if I want to talk to people, I'll talk to people. But most time for me, like, I want to talk to, I'll talk to.

I'll call you or I'll call I call people and they don't even know why I'm calling them but I'll call them I'll call them just to get it out whenever your freaking name pops up on my phone I'm like here we go I'm like do I have an hour yes I do we're ready to rock and roll I don't know where we're going by I know it's going to be good sometimes I get off the phone with you I would sit on my front porch talking to you one day I called you for like five minutes and we were on the phone for an hour and I got off the phone and I'm like I promise you I walk back and I'm like I don't even know why this guy answers the phone for me I remember one time we were talking and when I got off my wife was like who was that and I was like it was Dakota she goes I have never heard you laugh so freaking hard for so long I I one time I remember I was in my kitchen and I had tears Literally tears were coming out of my eyes. I was laughing so freaking hard at what you were telling me.

And man, and that's happened a few times. It's happened a few times. I mean, Oh, yeah. So, yeah, I know when I see that, when I see Dakota pop up on my phone, I'm like, all right. Yeah. I should freaking record those things.

And I could record them for counseling. I could record them for podcasts or I could record them for comic freaking relief. Yeah. You know, because, like, you, you don't help it, though. Like, let me say this. You are like the fuel of it because I'll say something. And you'll say like a few little words just like, you know, like, I'll be coming down and he'll just like say something else. Engage and it's like, here we go again.

No, I remember one time you called me too and you were like, man, you were ready to go hot. Oh, I was. And I was like, all right, man. And actually, I remember what I said. I said, okay, let's think about this. strategically. Let's think about this strategically. If you execute what you're talking about executing, I said, I said, where are you going to be in six months? Where are you going to be in three years? Where are you going to be five years? Like, that was pretty much all I had to say.

Did you edit there? Oh, yeah. I remember, I remember that conversation. Yeah. All Jacco told me was And he didn't say not to do it. I understand this. He didn't say not to do it. He said, hey, he said, if you're going to do it, I only do it if it's worth losing everything. That's exactly what he told me. That's a big statement.

And that's what I left with. And I was walking around Lowe's and I was like, yeah, I don't think we're there yet. All right. So what is it? So what are you going to do? We're not talking about that. We're not talking about that, but we will say it was not legal. In no way.

It was no way legal. But I'd already thought it. He had a freaking course of action brief for him. He was called me like, I was the freaking battlefield commander. He's like, hey boss, I got a course of action. I want to run by you. See if I can get mission execute on this thing. I'm like, okay, go ahead.

I'm all ears, bro. What you got? Seven minutes later, you know, he's running through timeline. Execution checklist. I'm like, okay. Already had the cover-up story ready to go. Yeah, man. But like that to me is like that, like that, like, but you know what, like, but I know who to call, right? Like, I know in that situation, I'm not going to call some idiot. You know what I mean? Because next thing you know, they're like, we're going to meet you. We're going to do it, right? Like, I know, I know, like, I'm so fortunate. I got, I've got all, like, I've got quite a few just people that I just look up to so much. much and I trust, I trust like, like you, like if you tell me something, like I know, I know it's

what you would do. And so I trust that, right? Like, I know it's exactly what you believe in what you would do. And so, like, that's why that's why I would call you with something like that, or I would call you. And that's, for me, that's, that's my, that's how I fix myself. You know what mean yeah no it's it's uh believe it or not if you have people around you that can are are on the same wavelength as you it's a method of actually detaching from the situation because you're all wrapped up in it right you're with the emotions and all this stuff you're all wrapped it up in it i'm not just saying you but any human echo could be all wrapped up in some emotional thing and call me up and be like hey this what's going on this is what i want to do because we're bros i i'm

thinking in your best interest i'm thinking in your best interest so i'm but i'm not wrapped up in it. So I can say, hey, man, let's think through what you want to do right now. Let's see what the long term. In that why, like in fights, I mean, their coaches are in the corner. The coaches are there, right? The coach is in the corner, right? Like, the coach isn't out there necessarily, you know, engaging or necessarily having to put in the physical piece of it.

But the coach is making sure the guy doesn't get too emotional, making sure to stick to the plan. Exactly. And that's why it's so important in life, you know, like, you. Even back when all this media stuff used to go on and I would get hammered. Like, I have a few people who are very, one of some of the best in the media world. And I'll back up and call them. And you know what? I make a rule.

I make a rule that as soon as I pick up the phone, like, I'm not calling you for advice. Like, when I call you about that, like, if you say don't do this or, hey, do this, why listen to that? Because I picked up the phone and I called and asked it, like, I'm not. I'm not going to sit here and ask you and then go do something stupid because like, why would I even waste your time? You know, and that's, I think that's so important to have those people in your life to be that logic side when you get into the emotional side too much, you know? Yeah, for sure.

All right, so we're getting the stellet ganglion block and that's sort of giving you the opportunity to work some of these things out. You know, the weird thing is, I was thinking about, so one of the things that I know for a fact, right? So, you know, for me, I'll, I'll go and talk to a company or I'll go and talk to people or I'll talk on this podcast about the worst days of my life, right? When I lost guys. And it's, I believe it's helpful because I've like, okay, I've talked about, I've written this down. I've explained what this situation is even, even, you know, giving like eulogies for my friends at their, at their memorial services.

Like you have to kind of think through things and you have to process them and then you write down and then you like even that. For me, it sucks and it's freaking horrible. But at the same time, I know that it allows me to sort of gather together my thoughts and put them in some kind of perspective. and when you write something down, you're actually detaching from it. You're actually detaching from it.

It's on the paper. It's actually on the paper. And then when you talk to some people about it, it's like, oh, you get to see their perspective. They get to give you some of their perspective about it. And so it's a way of, I guess, just working through the problem. It's almost like stretching when you're sore, you know, you stretch out, right? It's almost like that.

Hey, I'm going to get some blood back in there. I'm going to think through. this and the difference for you like in those early days is people are just putting their perspective on you it's like just layering it on you all the time yeah and like let me ask you so like when you like what how old like where were you at in your life like when you lost your guys 35 okay were you married yes okay so like so like check so like how old are you right now I'm 32. Yeah.

So, so my, my, my, my, my, my, my,

what would have happened if, you know, you, you, you, you had, that had happened

10 years before. For sure. You know, you know, you know what I mean? So, like, I think that's what's,

I think that's where you, like, that, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's,

that's, that's, you're kind of like, for me, I'll talk about for me, like, you're the, ,

you're the well I can like you're the you're the better side of this like I can like you give hope to a guy like me that man I'm I can get there I can I can be okay like this ain't this ain't like the realities that are in my mind sometimes like I understand like I can look at somebody and say look no no this isn't realities like I'm not I will figure this out

if I if I hang around people if I hang around Jocko and I I take that and I take that mentorship. I can be that someday. I can get there someday. I can literally look at it. It's not an idea. You're reality. And for a guy like me, that's reality.

And I think that's, but on the backside of it, you're not giving me, you're not giving me advice. The guys, if I talk to my buddies, like I'm taking advice from a guy who's seen it at 23, 21, their selves, right? you got to see it from a perspective at an older age with a different life. 100%. My whole, in fact, my whole experience of like being in combat was the most, the most gentle, like, the first operations I did were like, not. There was like nothing. Like, cool, we're going outside the wall. It was like this really nice kind of ramp, slow ramp.

It wasn't just like, oh, welcome to combat. You know, everything's freaking crazy. So I, you know, even like the, the. just the nervousness about of being like, oh, this is real. Like that was, I was very lucky. Yeah. I got that out of my system. The first five ops I went on and nothing happened, right?

I was like, oh, okay, cool. I kind of got this, right? And then it was just a slow kind of ramp from there. And, and yes, I was old. I mean, I can't believe I was three years older than you are right. Freaking now. I mean, that's pretty crazy. And I'd spent my whole life in the military.

And that's what, you know, so, yeah, I was. a huge, I was very, very lucky in the way things unfolded for me. And when things, if they got, when they got not good for you, you had a person in your life that you trusted with everything, that you knew if you were starting to get off the path, you knew you could look at her and you could have a good gauge. You had a very good gauge of the man that you were. Yeah, and I think more than that, in my own mind, I realized that I needed to.

And I'll tell you what, I talked about this with JP when JP was on here. And so when Mikey got killed, we were sending him home. And he was, so we're going into like a ConEx box to like say goodbye to him one at a time. And like I walk. So basically you can walk into the Conax Box. You see Mike, you know, freaking give him a kiss and, and, and, and, and, you know, and, say goodbye and then turn around and walk back out and um i remember just looking at at j p and because jp was like right ahead of me walking in and as he's walking back out like i i see j p and jp was

22 or 23 years old yeah and this was his bro and i look at his face and he is just fucking just absolute torment in his face. And I said to myself like, hey, Jocko, you better keep your shit together right now. Because like you said earlier, like it's like a breaking point. And people, if one person breaks and I'm the guy that's allegedly in charge. And if I break down right now, man, it's going to be a nightmare. And I remember seeing him, he turned around, he looked at me in the eyes and his face was just tormented and JP's such a passionate guy and he's so emotional.

And he was young, you know? And I just remember, I said, I better, you got to keep your shit together right now. Because they, you know, they need you, right? They need you to act like a fucking man right now. And that's what I had to do. And I kind of felt like, you know, with my wife, with my family, it's the same type of thing.

Like, hey, you got to hold the line. Like, you got to do this. And look, my wife's a freaking badass, you know. She's the one that was, you know, I didn't go to Mikey's funeral. I was still in Iraq. I didn't go to Mark's funeral. I was still in Iraq. Like this is my wife going to those things, you know?

And she's, by the way, she's got three kids. You know, she's getting a babysitter so she can go to my friend's funerals. So I'm not trying to sit here and say like, oh, I had to be all strong. She had to be strong. But that's what, I guess, to your point, I was older. I had a little bit more life experience. And, you know, as you get older, you're more able to handle things and put them in perspective.

Yeah, I mean, so like at 33, that would be 12 years older than what I was when it happened to me. You know, and by no means, I'm not saying that it's either way or the other. I'm just saying that like the world's a little bit different then, right? And, you know, like the maturity levels of how I handled a lot of it is not the right way. You know what I mean? Like was drinking and going out and, you know, punching people in the face. Like, you know, and in the new book we have coming out, right? Like, I talk about, like, you know, I've just, I mean, man, I was evil.

Like, I don't want to tell you, like, I came back and, I mean, I was mean. I was mean. And the problem was, is, like, when you take mean and you take a guy who doesn't care and a guy who felt like he's already lost everything, like, that is a dangerous dude. Like, I would, it was nasty. I would say stuff. Like, I hurt my family. I mean, I would say do stuff.

And it's just, you know, and I'm not saying, like, I just didn't handle it right. And I didn't have anybody there to hold the line with me. You know, like, I mean, everybody, I, you know. I mean, my whole team was gone. Like everybody, like my, the leaders on my team were gone. And, yeah, I mean, you know, do I regret? I regret a ton of it. And maybe if I had dealt with it better and maybe I had, you know, you just never know, right?

And, but yeah, it's just, it's different. It's different. You know, this brings me back to something you were talking about earlier. And I just want to, so you're talking earlier about, like, having a mentor and having people. And I just want to say like, you know, if you're in a position where you can help somebody out that maybe you've already been through the haunted house and you can give them a heads up. And I think people when they hear being a mentor, this isn't like this has to be some official thing. Like, hello, Dakota. What do you like me to mentor you?

This is not what I'm talking about. But just being someone that can indirectly say, hey, man, how's it going? Like, hey, what are you doing with that? Hey, what do you think is going to happen next? Just those kind of comments. To be a mentor, you don't have to sign up and you don't have to, you don't have to freaking go through a course. You know, there's no eight week.

What would you, what would your baby care course go? There's no course for how to handle a 22-year-old or whatever. It doesn't exist. But just giving, sharing your experience. And the other thing is you don't have to be perfect. I'm damn far from, I'm not even the same ballpark, right? You don't have to be perfect to be. able to say hey listen Dakota when this happened to me here's what I did here's the

actual mistakes that I made yeah right there's the things that I freaking completely screwed up watch out for these things so it's not hey Dakota here's what I'm doing and I was perfect no not even close so maybe you might be thinking listen this like well oh you know I'm not good enough to be someone's mentor bullshit or maybe you think I don't want to be someone's meant or bullshit. Be someone's friend, build a relationship with them

and show them the freaking path through the haunted house. Tell them what they can expect. Even if you screwed it up, it's better than letting them just, you know, get in a bad situation. But don't try to mentor them on something

you have not gone through. Don't. Say it up front. That's got to be your disclosure. Yeah. Of, you know, and like I'm so fortunate because like,

I mean, I'm surrounded by people I don't deserve. Like I've got, I mean, I'm just so fortunate to have just great people I can pick up the phone and call. Hey, hey, what do you think about this, right? And, you know, I'll tell you the one thing that I cut out whenever I start going, you know, when I tell you I have to do that self-reflection and look around, the people who are feeding into my bullshit are the people that have to go. Like the people who hype me up on my bullshit, like when I call up and I'm like, hey, yeah, what do you think about this? oh, you know, like, no, that's bullshit or whatever, right? Like, that's the first people that have to go.

I don't need a cheerleading squad. You know, I need people who are going to look at me, like Tim Kennedy, like Tim Kennedy looking at me and saying, like, you know, I'll never forget one of the, we were working out one time. And I said something. He could tell I was down. I was going through my divorce and stuff. And I looked at him and I said, man, I made like an offhanded comment.

I'm like, gosh, I'm fat. And he like, Tim stopped what he was doing. and he looked at me and he said hey check it out he said you when people hear your name they look at you as a warrior when you walk on stage they expect a warrior when you talk they expect a warrior when you wake up in the morning they expect a warrior so you know what you need to do you need to look in the mirror you need start acting like one and that was it turn around went back to work out right but that's what I need right like was that like a kick to me 100% but like I don't need people to feed in to my bullshit. I need people who are going to hold me accountable to standards that I can't even

hold myself to, to know what I can be and hold me to that standard. Hold the line when I don't even see it myself. Yeah, no doubt. And Tim Kennedy is one of those. Coming at you. Coming at you live, man. When he calls me, it's always going to, like, he calls me for like reasons. He's like, hey, this is what's going on. He's like ready to brief me. It's freaking legit. He's like, Hey, here's what's going. I got this. I'm like, hey, Roger that. Let me think about this.

Okay, here's a move, you know, or whatever. Here's a deal. Like, if I called Tim Kennedy up and I said, hey, man, like, if he thought I was feeling sorry for myself, I was like, hey, man, I think I'm just going to end it today. Like, I honestly think that Tim would be like, oh, hey, just make sure you leave all your cool. Like, hey, can I have your two guns? Like, he's not going to play the simple, like, if I needed something, though, like the dude would be like, like, hey, I killed this guy.

all right, well, I'll bring the shovel. You know what I mean? Like, but I know these guys are like that. Yeah. And that's where I'm so fortunate because I got that circle, right? Like that circle is everything. Yeah. And I guess what I'm saying is that's awesome.

And everybody that's listening, you can actually be part of that circle for somebody else. 100%. 100%. And if you do that, man, you make such a huge impact in people's lives by doing that. So how long was the Stellet ganglion block like the deal? Are you still getting that? I don't. Like I probably did it up until 2020.

And then my buddy, I was struggling real bad. Like I was, I don't know. I was just still struggling with it, right? He's like, you're going to Mexico. And I was like, for what? He said, don't worry about it. You're going to Mexico. He said, quite a few veterans are going down there.

Guys, I trusted, he named off a few people that I trusted had gone to this. And I said, all right. And so I booked a trip and flew into San Diego. And so I was going down to do it's a lot. a therapy with iwill gain and five amio dmt and something that i was the furthest thing that i could you could ever get me to be around i was like this is complete bullshit and honestly i was going to go and i told the doctor when i got there i said hey i'm coming to this just so i can walk away from this and tell people that this is all this is all bullshit

And I told him that. I said, as soon as this doesn't work, I'm going to go on every podcast I can. And I'm going to tell everybody that this is all. This is all. So what were you going for? What was it? It's called Ibo Gain. Okay.

And it comes from a root. What was the other thing that you said? 5MEO. It comes from a toad, DMT. So when Mike Tyson and Joe Rogan are talking about riding the toad, this is what they're talking about. Yeah. And you rode the toad. Yeah.

So I went down there. and I was in a bad, like, I was still, like, my anxiety just, you know, and I, and for me, like, the only thing that, like, when I look back at it, whatever, what always got me to the point of where I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to wake up tomorrow was anxiety. For, like, the best way to describe it for you is imagine when you're underwater and you, you can't breathe, you should know very well. I do. What will you do to get to the top to get a breath, whatever it takes, right? and that's what anxiety is. Like, if you can't get rid of it, you'll get to the point to where you're like,

if I have to end it for anxiety to get rid of this feeling, I will do that. And that was the only thing that got me there. And so I went down there. The other guy I'm talking about, I won't mention his name, but he was struggling to. And let me tell you something, he's one of the hardest dudes I know. My team leader, you know, and this was about a year after my team leader, who was a Marine sniper, took me through, got me to become Marine sniper, went to Iraq with him, deployed with him. Then he went over it, got out of the Marine Corps and said, forget it, I'm going to go

be a Navy SEAL, became a Navy SEAL, deployed with the Navy SEALs, the team out in Hawaii. And then one day he said, I'm done, put his gun to his mouth and killed himself. Another hard guy, though. And so, you know, when people call him. all these guys cowards, they're not cowards. They're not cowards. These are some of the hardest men that have ever walked to face the planet. And that's why, you know, you have to take it serious. And so anyways, this guy, he went down there, I get down there and you have to sign like paperwork that says you may experience that you're dying. I mean, it is one of the sky. It was scariest things I've ever done. And after you take it, there's no, you write it to it's gone. There's no off ramp.

There's no off ramp. And so I took this, so you go there and it was like, you didn't eat all day on a Friday. I took the Ibogaine at 8 p.m. on Friday. And now you're talking about, they were like doing this sage stuff, like hippie stuff. And I'm like, you guys are hippies. Like, I don't need any of that. Like, I'm nothing against hippies, but I'm just not one, right? I don't. I don't. know I can't get into this you know waving this stuff around or whatever and believe in whatever you want again but like I couldn't I couldn't get in the mood and so I'm like I take it and uh you have to write down your intentions on this piece of paper and I just wrote that um I just wanted some relief I wanted some I just wanted some relief like whatever so you

You go up and you lay down in this room. You lay on the bed. This bed's on the floor. And you put these blindfolds over. And I didn't feel anything for a minute. Wait, when you take it, what is that, like a drink? It's like a pill. It's measured out.

So you take it. Gotcha. You know, you and I talked a little bit before you came out here. And I knew about some of these things that you were trying. And I don't know about these things. Yeah. And one of my friends, Tim Ferriss, is like, just to say like when you're like oh this hippie stuff that's kind of the way i think too right

and and and i like want to understand it better because i know it help you look even even rogan he told me he's like i think it will help i think it will help dakota yeah and you and i went back and forth i was like hey man i'm going to ask joe and i said hey joe what do you think and at that point he'd met you and he'd been on his podcast and he was like I that was actually you actually texted me I did you were like hey this is what I'm coming to San Diego for what do you think and I was like dude I don't freaking know let me ask Rogan so I asked him and of course what is he's he no but he but he wasn't I mean as much as Rogan is is understands this stuff and he's for it he was also like he laid out reasons yeah I'll text him and ask him a question about something

and he'll be like, no, don't, no, that is not going to help. If you're trying it for this, he's like, nope, that won't help you. So that's one part of it. Like, Rogan has that level of understanding. And then on the other side, Tim Ferriss is like trying to get this stuff approved medically and trying to get support there. And so I just asked him to give me a rundown of like, hey, what is all this stuff? You know, it's not just hippie stuff. And he's like, no, it's not just hippie stuff.

And here's what it is. And like he said Ibogaine, because he was kind of talking me through this. Ibogains from some shrub in Africa. And he said it's like the most powerful. It's the most powerful there is. Right. He said a lot of seals do it because seals are like, you know, all right, I'm going hard. Yeah.

What do you got? And so that's what Ibogame is. Ibogaine is it's a lot of times they use it for opiate addiction. Yeah. Like it's so hardcore. that they put these people on it for opioid addiction, and it kicks their ass to where they don't do opioids again. All right.

So back to your story. So you take the thing, they're waving, they're waving hippie stuff around. No offense to hippies, but you ain't down. No, no offense. No, I mean, I just, I couldn't. And I, like, they laughed at me the whole time, right? They're like, I'm like, yeah, whatever.

I can't get into this. Are these Americans that are down there? Are they? So there was like, yeah. All of them were except for two. Okay. And so we're there in this house. And then there's a bunch of, there's a bunch of seals there as like that are making

sure we, nothing, nobody comes in that are there to help you if you need something. But like, all I'm going to tell you, all I'm going to say is, is like, I was surrounded by seals. And so that tells me, like, hey, like, seals. are no bullshit like you know what I mean like and that's yeah so I took it and um all the sudden like it's I feel it's starting to come like it's like it's like it's like it's like it was like the spinning and um and you were just like it was like all it's like I was watching my life on a TV screen and I didn't see anything for more and I was walking through this town and everything looked gloomy.

And I'll never forget I went into this one room. And I went in this room and I seen like all these people. It was like this huge crowd. And but I felt like just disappointment. And I got, I did my typical me of wanting to fix it. Like, well, what did I do wrong? Like, how can I fix this? And I kept running up to all of them.

And then it would be like flashing. of people that I knew and people that like I knew I hadn't done anything to but just did it from manipulation and like there were just flashing on and on and finally I'm just like well what did I do wrong and like I just remember feeling this like this feeling of just defeat and I was in there for probably four hours and then I came out and as I was walked down the town like I would look at every little gauge and it would be like the gauge would instant. it would fill up and instead of being at full, it would say finished and it would be like this far from finished and I never finished anything.

And then I would see this beautiful ball light and I would go to it and it would be my two daughters playing. And this went on until 3 p.m. on Saturday afternoon. And I'll never forget there was at one point of it. I just felt like I was such just trash that I was filing. just like, I just, I don't care anymore. Like my ego, it took my ego and just smashed it. And it's like, I don't care what anybody thinks.

I don't care. I know I wake up and I'm the best me and I know I give my best. I'm not perfect. I know that I know that I don't come off and say the right things. But I know what my intent is. I know there's, you couldn't look at me and make me question my intent. You can definitely question my delivery. You can criticize how I come off or how I do this.

But my intent is there and my intent is good. And I'll never forget like that. It broke everything. It's like got to the point to where I didn't care anymore. And like I'll never forget I was laying there and I was like, just, I'd like, if this is how I die, this is how I die. And I just didn't care anymore. I didn't care what my mom thought of me. I didn't care what, you know, all these people that I had invested in and I had gave them these titles, which when you give somebody titles, you give them authority.

I didn't care anymore. You're not going to tell me what my intent is. And so I come out of it, I was so pissed off. When I came out of it, like I literally looked at the doctor and I said, this is what you brought me here for. I said, I called up the guy who sent me there, who's a close friend. I said this is 100% bullshit. Like I was so down. Like I, because my biggest fear was opening Pandora's box.

And he's like, wait till the next day. So the next day you do this 5MEO DMT. And I'll never forget. Like I wanted to make sure I've seen the world the same. So I'm looking out this window in Mexico. And we're looking out, we're right by the ocean. And I look out and all I can see is, all I can think in my head is, man, this place is a shit hole. That's all I can think.

I go down, I do this DMT, and I lay down. And as soon as you go, like, it's almost like it was like feet first. Like I was like gone, like to a tube, right? And it feels real. Or do you know that you're like, you know you're tripping? You don't see anything. No, you know. I mean, it's not like it's a physical thing.

Like when you drink, you physically feel drunk. It's like your soul. Like it's not a, it's not a physical. reaction it's like your soul and I was it was gone and like you can't see anything it was pure white it was the most beautiful white that I've ever seen in my life it was there's no there's no word in the English dictionary to ever describe how beautiful the white was and all I could feel was love like I felt good I felt like you could feel what good is like if you took how I feel when my daughters give me a hug or that that that

unconditional love, like that's what the whole place felt like. It was like the perfect temperature. I didn't think about anything else. And all I heard were my teammates say that it was all right. And yeah, it was like everything bad was gone. It was like I got like a reset in my life. And when I came back too, I set up. and I just like I started crying

and I looked at these two women who were there, these two nurses and I just couldn't believe that like there were such they were like I had to like I'm in Mexico and there's two people who genuinely care about me

and I care about me enough to help me through this and I looked out the window and I was like gosh this is the most beautiful place I've ever been and I didn't have any anxiety after that

I went back home the stuff that like would send me over the edge man I was just happy to be alive how was just I woke up every like I still I mean still still I get up and do I have bad days yeah but

but like I'm just happy to be here you know like like like you know I it just it changed my whole life Like I came back in my anxiety was, I mean, I get normal, there is normal anxiety.

But like that, those anxiety attacks, I haven't had one since. How long has it been? It'll be two years this November. You know, the thing that you said about intent is something that I talk about a lot from a, from a leadership perspective and that bleeds over into life. because I think if you're doing the right things for the right reasons, if your intent is good, you're going to be okay, right? If you're not trying to screw somebody over, if you're not trying to maneuver, if you're not trying to sneak one by somebody, if you're not trying to look out for your own agenda,

like the military, it's a classic example. You get an officer or a senior enlisted leader that what their intent is to get themselves promoted or what their intent is to get themselves a freaking award or credit or accolades. If that's what their intent is, everybody can see it. And it doesn't work out good for them in the end. If their intent is good, that they want to get the mission done, that they want to take care of their team, that they want to, that they're putting themselves below their team and lifting their team up. Like that intent is what makes a good leader, what makes a good person. And I think when people have bad intent, it eats them apart. It eats them up. And they can, they can have bad intent. You can cover it up. You can try and drown it out. You can pretend that it's not there. But it's

there. And what I tell people is like, intent, you can smell people's intent. And the worst part about it is you can smell your own intent. And if you have bad intent, you have to sit in that rotten stink yourself and it will eat you apart. You can put perfume all over it. You can put deodorant all over it. It's still there and you know it. So that's like a realization that you had of my intent is good. Yeah, like, look, your intent is your foundation of your house. Your priorities are basically the shell of your house. They can change. You can move rooms. You can adjust on it, right? But if your intent, you know if your intent is is wrong that house is not going to stand you can't keep building on that house

you can't keep adding on to it you can't keep making it better the foundation is done it's done and the only difference between murder and self-defense is intent 100% and nobody can question that no it is it's it's black and white it's it's it's black and white it's it's it's It is, your intent is absolute. And that's ultimately, when you start digging down the root of this tree, that's ultimately what's going to decide if you're going to hold up in the bad times or not. Yeah, the thing is, I don't know if you, I don't know if I caught exactly what you said, but I've seen people change their intent in their life.

100%. Okay, so I thought you said like, oh, you can't change your intent. You can't change your intent of something that happened in the past. But if you've been running around, looking out for yourself and stepping on people's backs and that's the way you roll, you can change that. You can actually begin to act like a good person. Yeah. But here's what I'll tell you is, is you can't be both. That is true.

You cannot. You can't. You can't be selfish and selfless. You're either one or the other. And there is no, well, I'm selfish at these times, but I'm selfless at these times. No, no, no. Because then when you're selfless, you're only being selfless when you want to be selfless, and that's selfish.

Yep. Right. Like, there's no being both in this life. Like you don't get to skirt the line. You're either all in on one or the other, and it's obvious. And there's no, there's no, there's no, there's no excuse for that. It is what it is, and you know it, and you know it on everything you do. You ultimately know it.

Is it like a one-time thing? I just, I've done it once. And then, you know, the only, the only thing I'll do now is like a, like, I'll use psilocybin. If I start feeling anxiety, calm around, right? Like, I'll just do a dose of psilocybin. Okay, so psilocybin is mushrooms. Yeah. and and then when you say you feel it coming,

is it like, hey, tomorrow, like I feel like I'm nervous about tomorrow? Or is it like, hey, I'm starting to feel nervous right now? No, I start like, you know, like I came home from that I would gain experience and like I got to see the world in a place that I've never seen it. Like I got to see like with a relief that I had never felt. I didn't know that people could really walk around like this. and, you know, I mean, you got to take, I grew up in chaos. I mean, the only, a lot of times, you know, my biggest thing is, is not, like, people talk about being in, like, the dark places.

Well, I'm comfortable there. The problem I have is, is being in the light where there's not dark places. You know, I have the problem of being when there's no chaos. You want to talk about where I'm the best. is you put me in the most chaotic environment and it needs to get figured out. Like, and the stakes are high, well, that's, that's where I'm good. The problem I'm trying to learn is how to be okay when it's not chaotic. And that's what I have to have, that's what I have to work on.

How often do you feel like that anxiety is coming? And you go, like, like, how often do you feel like, oh, I better get a little bit of, a little bit of psilocybin to help me get through this? You know, once a quarter. So I'm, just me personally. Like I, I don't think, like, I don't, none of this stuff do I look at as a recreational type of thing. Like, I don't, I don't think, I think if, if you, if you're using it as a medicinal piece,

as a, not as a medicinal of I'm going to do it every night before I go to bed. You know what I mean? Like if you're using it to, because it's something you need, nobody questioned somebody who takes blood pressure medicine. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Like, so, you know, for me, about once a quarter, you know,

and I'll do like, I'll do a big dose, like, like, like a six or, six or seven grams of psilocybin. And then, like, how, I'm good. It's like five hours and then I'm good. So before we wrap up this little section on, this is, this is, like I said, I talked to Tim and he just gave me a bunch of really good information because I don't understand this stuff. I don't know about it.

I've never done it before. And, but I've talked to so many of my friends that have had, that it's helped them so much you included that I want you know I have an open mind I want to understand it better um you know a couple of things that he said actually there's a few things that he said number one like because the veteran community has gone through such traumatic experiences that's the main group to to need this type of treatment the other one is is survivors or victims of traumatic assaults whether that sexual assaults or physical assaults but people that have been through that so it's

But but there's no federal funding for it. So there's no federal funding for it, which means there's no There's not enough money. It's just people that are donating donating Donating money to try and try and help get funding for more research The thing about specifically he said about mushrooms is they've been used for thousands of years, right? So mushrooms have been used for thousands of years and he also said, and this was interesting to me, like there's no, you don't need, you don't want to do more. No. He said you do some and you're like, okay, I don't want to do more.

It's not, it's not like heroin or cocaine where when you do cocaine, apparently, because I've never done it. But apparently when you do it, you just want to do more. When you do, I had a neighbor that had gotten out of prison and moved in with his uncle. and he was out of prison after seven years and he um he was on meth and he said the first he said hey the first time i did crystal meth it was the only thing i ever wanted to do for the rest of my life yeah so and he went right down that path and stole from everybody that he knew and freaking wrecked his life and ended up in jail uh but you know what tim was saying is like there's there's like an anti-addictive

like because you can't you don't want to do it every day no I mean like I couldn't imagine if you thought you were going to go out and party and somebody gave you a thing of Ibegain you know what I mean like like like I couldn't imagine

if you thought you were going to go out and party and you took you know six to eight grams of psilocybin like for me personally maybe I'm weak but I just I couldn't imagine and like there's nothing about it. Like,

it's like work. Like, if I'm taking this, like, I know I'm going in to do some work. The way he was describing it to me, and he's heard me talk about detaching, you know,

wrote about leadership strategy, and he's talking about detachment. He's like, oh, yeah, here's what it is. He goes, mushrooms, psilocybin is like, it is your brain can detach

and look at what is going on. And then you can find a solution for it. And you just made a face like, Yes. It's clarity. I get off, like I come off of it and I can think clearer than I've ever been able to think. He said, you know, Ibegain definitely got to be careful. He said there's cardiac risk.

Like you can have some significant problems from that. Whereas mushrooms, he said basically, I don't think there's any like reported ODs on mushrooms. You would have to do pounds of it. And there's no way you could do pounds of mushrooms. He also said. that he said look there's a whole warning thing right there's a whole like warning thing that you need to watch out for specifically if you've had schizophrenia in your family it's like a big red flag it's probably no-go they don't when when they're testing it

they don't test it on people that that have had those types of problems before but um it like you said like it's like these these things are one to two maybe three recessions and you don't need it anymore. So some of the other warnings, look, there's legal. Like there's, it's illegal. It's illegal. Yes, it's illegal. It's illegal. So you can't do it. You're not allowed to do it. You're not allowed to do it. And if you get caught with it, you'll go jail. You go to jail. So that's number one, right?

the other thing that Tim said is like you've got to for him he's like if somebody asked me about it he says here's the protocol you know a month of preparation and the preparation that he's putting on people is like hey you got to meditate every day you got he's got some books to read you got to do that he said you got to look at it like if you're getting knee surgery if you're an athlete and getting knee surgery what do you go out you research you find the best doctor, you do the, there's prep work to get ready to have surgery. You got to like work out a certain way and do certain exercise to get ready. Then once you get the surgery done, you got to go into re, you got to rehab. And you, and it's what you said earlier. Like, you got to do the work.

You got to do the work. And like, if you're not willing to put in that work on the front end, you don't respect it enough to do it. You don't have, you don't want to get better. You don't want to use it for the intent that it needs to be used for, right? Like all these things, I take it very serious. Like I don't, let me tell you something. Like, I mean, it's even hard for me to talk about. Like, honestly, like, just up front. Like, it's hard for me to even talk about in this room

because it's like this is something that I in this room a year ago, two years ago, would have looked at like, what are you doing? Right? And it's hard to bring that up around people that I know and trust because if they haven't, it's one of those things if you haven't done it.

But then I start thinking to myself, why can I drink alcohol? You know what I mean? Why can I do all these other things that somebody has allowed me to do? I could go to the VA right now and get prescribed colotopin. I could get Xanaxes.

I could be out of my mind on all these pharmaceuticals, and that's acceptable in our society. And addictive. And addictive. And bad for you. but this this is even if I have to think about this

even if I have to go through my life let's say I'd do this once a quarter the rest of my life for five hours once a quarter really people go to bars they spend more than that in a bar drinking alcohol

on the weekends yeah well what for me like I said I've got you and when you got I text you like how was it man How was it? And you were like, I feel freaking awesome now.

And I was like, okay. I mean, like if my friend can escape this pain and this suffering that you're in, like I want at least other people to know about it. And listen, there's like there's all kinds of things you need to think about. It's preparation. It's making sure you understand it. It's finding the best doctor the right place. It's also having a safety net in place before you do it because because it's,

because it can uncover things that you didn't think we're going to come. You didn't think this was coming and guess what? You get hit with it. And it will. You get ambushed. So you better have some backup.

You better have some safety net. You have to assume that you're going to need help when you're done with it. Get in the right environment. Tim said take less than you think you can handle. Everyone's like, oh, I'm just going in hard. Like dumb move.

Yeah, dumb move. He did also mention a couple places where there look there's there's John John Hopkins University John Hopkins University is is doing all kinds of experimentation to try and figure out how to use it properly there's a bunch of other places that are doing it as well there's something called maps.org M-A-P-S dot org which is the multidisciplinary association for psychedelic studies that's that's this is if you want to support what we're talking about if you want to try and get it so it's not underground right because if you can go get prescribed Xanax and whatever

are these other things that you're talking about or you can just go down to the freaking corner store and buy a bottle of whiskey and inebriate yourself which all it does is cover up the problems numbs the problems if you would like to say hey maybe we should take a different approach you can go to maps.org you can go to usona institute dot org does it's just another it's US O N A-I-N-S-T-I-T-I-T-E-S-T-E-E. U-T-E-D-O-G to try, you know, to donate or whatever you can support there. And then just universities that are out there that are doing this, he told me a couple documentaries that will help you have better understanding.

One of them is called Trip of Compassion. And apparently it's super intense. Apparently they show this therapy taking place and it's like really intense. And the other one is called fantastic fungi. Am I saying that right? Fungi. Fungi. Fungi.

Which is kind of, I was kind of like, oh, that's kind of, it sounds like a, whatever, almost a comedic, right name. And then he told me what it's about. And what it's about is they've got people that are, have some kind of terminal disease. In many cases of older people, but people that are, people like you, what we're talking about where people that would never think about doing. anything like this in their lives and they haven't for 40, 60, 80 years. And they're doing these drugs in order to overcome or be comfortable as they face death.

And something like he says that there's like grandmas on there that, you know, never drank in their life and they're on there saying this is the best thing that I've ever done. So definitely some, um, look, this, again, I'm no pro do research, but it's something that we need to start talking about because if it can help us out, if it's been helping people for a long time anyways, you know,

with the case of mushrooms, been helping for thousands of years, if there's something, if there's a way to help people, let's freaking research it, let's find out how to do it right and let's get people to a situation where they can do it legally.

But again, doing it with the right intent. Yeah. With the right intent. And I'm telling you, drinking is way easier than going in and facing and working through what you see with this. Drinking is easier. Going and running away from your problems is way easier. This is a, this is a, this is where it's going to look you in the eyes and you're going to, if you want to work on it, you'll work on it. I mean, and it's so hard.

It sounds like even me talking. about it. It sounds so crazy just to even talk about it like that. But it's really, like, for example, the last time I did, I mean, I sit there and looked at my teammates dead. But you know what? I looked at it in a way that I was okay with it. I came out of it and I was okay with it. Yeah, did I still feel the hurt? Yeah. Was I sad? I got to see my grandparents, which I loved more than anything. But I was okay with it. it's okay to it's a normal reaction to to hurt from it to miss them but it's not normal to let these actions dictate the rest of your life and that was where it did it gave me the perspective of

seeing it again on my terms and it and hopefully what that did is it processed it now it's out check proceed with caution with caution with caution um let's talk about something that's a little less controversial but also provides a massive amount of healing in my humble opinion a little something called jujitsu how's the jiu jitsu coming along man you know i haven't i haven't rolled much lately um you know i was rolling quite a bit whenever all the the covid hit right and everything got shut down um i feel like i'll probably be a white belt for life um you know um We're all white belts for life. I, yeah, I mean, I haven't got to roll a ton lately.

I think I rolled maybe like a month ago. But I just, I hadn't been able to get back around to, I mean, there's plenty of Jiu-Jitsu to go on in Austin. Roger that. Tim Kennedy, just FYI, your brother here has not been rolling lately. I'm sure you will help remedy that situation. One of the things that, you know, for me, Jiu-Jitsu is so important for so many. reasons and it's aligned with the reasons of like being in shape working out

working out every day to me that's that's therapy that's therapy right that's therapy for me and I know it's therapy for a lot of people and I know hey give me one day for where for whatever reason I literally can't work out like whatever it is like I woke up at three o'clock in the morning to travel and then when I got home the water he could was broken and I had three clients call me and then my kid was sick and whatever the thing is, it just didn't happen. I can feel it, right? It's like a mental negative emotion that's going on.

Yeah. If it's like seven o'clock at night, my wife's about to serve dinner and I didn't get to work on, I go, hey, give me 30 minutes. I'm going to go hammer one out. Man, it's like a whole, the whole world changes. The whole world changes. The whole world changes. Name a time that you've worked out and you left and you left and you're

You were not happy that you worked out. Boy, am I bummed I did that. Oh, man. So fitness, huge thing. And I know that speaking of fitness, what's up with this new freaking like application you got out? Yeah. Talk to me about this.

I just launched this new. So like I've always wanted, look, I don't want to be a bodybuilder. Like I have no credibility. I have no idea how to even do it, right? I don't want to be a trainer. I don't want to be any of those, right? But like, I do enjoy the therapy side of working out. of staying in shape, of being able to, you know, know that if we get a fire, I can go perform

or knowing that I can get us out, you know, like, I mean, I still get on a truck to go get after it, right? Like, I have to be a dad to my, you know, to my daughters. And look, at some point, in a few years when I'm older, they'll be dating boys and I still have to be able to kick their ass, right? So I take that very serious. You know, so, I still have this, I know how to train. And to me, you know, I feel like the closest I became, look at what all my friends have in common. They all train.

You know why? Because you know where we got close to our closest friends? Suffering and training together, right? Yeah. I mean, that's it. 100%. And so, you know. I launched this new app.

It's on own the dash training.com. And you can get on there. We got workouts on there. You can work out, same stuff I do, right? It's not about, are you going to get on there with a program to come out as a bodybuilder? No, I don't want to be that. But if you want to get on there and get after it and have a program you can follow to get after it and to be able to leave and know you did something, it's like, I call it practical fitness.

It's like you don't, it's not complicated. I'm a simple guy. I get it done where I can. I like to think it's efficient, you know, it's efficient. I just get in what I can with what I got. And that's what it is. So you real quickly just mentioned, oh, when I'm out getting on the truck. Because you're a firefighter.

Yeah, firefighter EMT. I did that last year. I got knocked that out last year because, you know, during COVID. And I was like, man, I really want to give back. I really want to, I really want to, I feel like I just, I have more to give. Like, this country has given me so much. People have given me so much. And I just, I feel like I have an obligation to give.

and I want to do it by being able to put my hands on people and being able to be there in their worst moments. And so, yeah, I went got my certification, became an EMT, became a firefighter. I got my commission in Texas. And, yeah, so I was paid for probably six months, five, four, five, six months. And then just my speeches and stuff started coming back. So I had to get off the truck, you know, me and you talked about it. I mean, it wasn't a forever thing. It was more about getting experience and trying to just sharpen that craft.

And then, you know, now I still volunteer. And then I'm, hopefully I'll start doing some part-time stuff, start picking up some shifts at this, this one of my, one of my closest mentors. And in the fire service, Sam Stacks has just been there for me the whole time and just kind of led me through. Like he's like the, we call him the, you know, you know, the white beards, right? Like he's like the white beard of the fire service, you know, him and, and, you know, She's been their close friends. So anyways, I did that.

And, you know, I just get out there and try to help people when they need it. And it's awesome, man. I've talked to a lot of fire departments in the country. And a lot of fire departments use the principles from extreme ownership, from dichotomy leadership, from leadership strategy and tactics. We work with these guys a lot. And I always feel like, hey, I appreciate what you guys do. I know it's a hard job.

I know it's like a rough job. I know that you see a lot of stuff that sucks. And I know that a lot of it is like no, like you, you think of a firefighter. You think of like a movie like backdraft where it's like all kind of dangerous but heroic. Yeah.

It ain't that. And the other part of it that I know exists is the part that's like heroic, yes, but a different kind of heroic. And man, you and I have had some conversations about that, that even up to my appreciation for firefighters and EMTs even more when you're talking about just the day to day life. I mean, it is. Yeah, let me tell you. First off, let's let's talk about police and like EMS side of it. Police,

paramedics, EMTs, let me tell you, they are the unsung heroes of this nation. The strain that is put on them, this system that we have, the demand from them, they're overworked, they're treated like shit.

On deployment 365 days a year old. On deployment, 365 days a year old. On deployment, 365. five days a year. And I'm telling you, they are dealing with the piece of the world that we want to pretend does not exist. And it is here. The respect for them is if you see a cop or you see any of them, a first responder, you should thank them and you should thank from the bottom of your heart for what they do that you don't have to see. I had no clue.

As much as I pretended like I thought I did, I had no clue. The stuff that I see have seen just since I've been doing it is worse than anything I've seen in Afghanistan. On an almost daily basis. Yeah, I mean, look, you have shifts that nothing goes on, but you have days where it sucks. Yeah, what they go through is just you can't, what I went through in Afghanistan, which I'm not going to say is for everybody, is what everybody's gone through, but it can't touch what I've seen here in the United States. And, you know, I'll tell you where it really hit me one time is whenever I was working on an ambulance,

me and one of my closest friends when we pull up and took a call where a kid hung himself and I'll never forget it was like a hanging and I'll never forget he looked at me he's way I mean this dude is you talk about solid real he's he's awesome he looked at me and goes hey make sure when we get out grab the bolt cutters

he's like you never know like if they hung themselves with something other like I've never even thought about that right like this guy just and you know you just you walk in and you just see you know it's you can't this is not war this isn't somebody shooting at you because they hate you i mean this is a kid who was so lonely that he hung himself and this is what happens this is happening in our world every day has anybody ever thought about who comes and takes care of this you know and it's the car wrecks you know the the you know it's just it's something that we try to pretend that doesn't exist and you got these people who are just going out and doing this every day i have no clue as

what they've gone through i've seen just about this much of it just a smidge of it but they go out and they get up in the middle of night to go and be there for when you dial 9-1-1 and it's like these people um not me but these people people that I have got to work with, that I've got to see who have done this for years. Like, they really are the real life, Batman's, Superman. You look at it. Like, you know, they, when you call them, they go and answer whatever needs you need in the worst moments of your life

and they go back and they live theirs and they walk the streets among us and they don't ask for anything and it is crazy they are they are really God sent and it's incredible and like you know the appreciation I have for them

just getting to work next to them I just I'm honored to just be able to be around them but it's you talk about the world the world right around us I mean, the houses that you walk into, you're just so sad. I mean, it's the people you see, the overdoses. And, you know, you're just like, I'm telling you right now, the one thing that I have been able to see is that people are hurting.

People are hurting. And, yeah, but I'll tell you this, it's a, it's been the most fulfilling thing I've done. You know, how cool is it to be somebody? to be the person that can show up when somebody calls 911 because they don't know how to figure it out. How cool is that to be able to come up on a scene to where everything's chaotic and they just need somebody to help them get through that moment

and you get to be that person, right? And that's where I think, like, my perspective has changed on all this, like with my teammates or with all the people I've seen die and all this, like, you know, what's kind of cool is, man, is I, for some reason, I keep getting put in these positions, and it's an honor. Because I get to be the person that's there with them as their soul leaves their body. And how cool is that to be able to share that moment with somebody?

There are last moments on this earth. Sometimes I get to share that with these people. And it's an honor. Like, I walk away, and does it bother me? Of course, it bothers me. But now I get to say, hey, you know what? It was an honor. It was an honor that you shared that moment with me.

Obviously, you didn't choose to, but obviously we're here for a reason. And I get to do this. And it is like, it's awesome. It is awesome. It's awesome. I've been lucky enough to work with police departments around the country. And what's interesting about what you were saying is that, like you said, it's underneath the surface, right? And I think when you see something on the news, you know, you see a shooting on the news or a suicide or an overdose.

We have a tendency to think that it's somewhere else. Yeah. It's someone else. And I'm telling you, small towns, big towns, cities, country, rural, north, south, east, west. You don't have to go very far, quote, beneath the... surface because by the way socio-economic class doesn't matter does it you go to rich people's houses you go to poor people's houses you go to the projects and there's there's people that are in their worst moments in their worst moments and um like you said it's it's these uh first responders

that are out there that they they answer that call every time every single time every single time every single time and they do it for years they do it for years end on end and it is like watching them you know just like literally they prepare for the unknown they never know what the call is going to be like they literally wake up every day to be whatever you need them to be when they need to be it and I'm telling you. And they do it, and they do it. It's such a, like, police especially, like police, such a thankless job, obviously right now, right?

And they're out there doing their best, and they're out there just trying to, just trying to be what people need them to be. And at the end of the day, they're no different than you are. They're a mother. They're a sister. They're a father. They're a son. They're no different than you are.

are, the only difference is that they chose to put a badge on to go serve other people. That's it. They're not some trained robot. They're not some person who is, you know, was born with all these mind reading activities or can read the future to know if someone's going to kill them tonight. They are just like you are. They are as scared as you are. they don't want to do like they got their own problems at home and guess what they do they choose to

set theirs aside and they don't let me tell you up front they don't do it for the pay they do not do it for the pay they they don't do that no they do it because they care about people i don't care their intent they don't stay in that job without good intent it's not possible it is not possible. It ain't worth it. It is not worth it. But it's awesome, man. It's awesome. It's just awesome. Like, I would get on a truck with these guys and I would just look at them in all of just like, no matter how chaotic it got, they had it. And it was like, this is awesome. I want to be one of them. How often do you walk around and say that? I want to be one of them. It's badass. They're badass. Absolutely. You mentioned a couple of times today, the new book. Yeah.

The new book coming out. Tell us about the new book. The Way Forward. Yeah, so I wrote a book, you know, me and Rob O'Neill, we speak for the same speaking agency. Me and Rob connected on, not necessarily about, like, combat stuff, but just more about the, just life, right? We both come from small towns. We both are somewhere that neither one of us, you know, ever thought we would be, right?

You know, and we both have stuff that haunts us. And that was kind of where we connected of like, how do we put a book together, kind of talking about giving some perspective that we're no different than anybody else. And that's the one thing that I always felt like a lot of these war books came back, right after these war books came out. And I feel like all the way up until Chris Kyle's movie, there wasn't really that humanization piece. In Chris Kyle's movie, they showed more of the, when he was coming back home between deployments, the struggle sometimes, right? And I think that was the first time in any of the movies that it ever really hit. and you know I always felt like in our books that we wrote we we built ourselves up to be something great

but we never showed that we never humanized the factors of war and you know that was a piece that always got me and uh we kind of like when I came home and so like you know in the way forward it's just about it's about life like a lot of stories I told today you know the Ibu gain story is in there right like the, you know, the story I talk about my grandpa, you know, just about, you know, the circle. I talk about my circle and why I talk about Tim Kennedy, the story I told you. I put that in there about how like between Tim, Shane and Brandon, my friends about how like, you know, you got the sword, the shield, and the armor, right? And those are like that, how each of them fit.

And, you know, I talk about, you know, my struggles in Alaska. I talk about, you know, about, like, my divorce. You know, I talk about all this. I talk about more of the human side of it to humanize about who we are. And, you know, and I think it's going to be great. It comes out in July. And I think it's going to be great because, you know, I think it's coming at probably a good time in the country of where people are looking for a way forward, right?

And that's kind of where it comes around. So what's the layout? What's the land? Normally, as you know, I read books before people come on here, but in this case, you handed it to me today and said, got a new book coming out. So what's the format of it? So basically in each chapter, Rob tells a story and I tell a story. For each chapter?

For each chapter. Is there a common theme between? Yeah. Yeah. So like if you look at, like if you, you know, when you read it. I haven't looked at it because you know what? You didn't give it to me until today. So that's your tricky way of getting back here again.

Yeah, you know, you like that, right? So, you know, you talk about, like, American boys, like, that's the first chapter, taking aim, find your heroes, you know, drilling to open your eyes. Like, you know, I talk about, I kind of, you know, like one of the stories I talk about in here that I felt like, you know, my cousin Stephen was, I mean, you talk about a guy who was always there for me, right? and especially one of my biggest cheerleaders when I went to the Marine Corps. And, man, when I came back and I was just in that, this dark mode, you know, he had had a kid and married and all this. And, like, he got busy, right? And, you know, he just wasn't answering the phone. And I took it as, well, he's, like, leaving me, leaving me hanging, right?

But really, now that I'm a father, I get it. So me and him got into it pretty bad. And like, I'll tell you, I over it just because of ego and resentment, I invited everybody in my family except him to the Medal of Honor ceremony. And, you know, man, I, that's one of the dudes that stood by me the whole time, you know? And just stuff like that, like lessons of, hopefully if I can't meet somebody that they can read this book and maybe it touches their life to say hey you know what maybe I'm doing this in my life right now before I go and

mess it up even worse you know maybe I can look at this as a little bit of perspective that maybe maybe some mentorship you know but yeah it's just all stories about that you should be able you know everybody could relate to whether you served in combat or you didn't and Rob's is the same way. You know, Rob's is talking about basketball about growing up in, you know, Butte, Montana. I mean, Rob has got some funny stories. I'm laughing because Rob and I were on deployment.

It was like 99 or 2000. And I don't even think we had aimed. We went to the gym to work out. And there were some dudes playing basketball. And I played basketball. I sucked. But, like, I played basketball in high school, you know, and I was a point guard. So I could.

like dribble, I had some ball handling skills. I could pass and whatnot. But I would like get more steals in a game than I would points, right? Partially because of my position, but partially because I, and I was a hostler, right? I would be, every game I'd leave with like skin knees and skin elbows. I'd dive on every ball. Well, Rob's like, he played a little bit of college ball. And being from Montana, most of the time you find with people that are from the north,

they're really good at shooting because, you know, you can't dribble in the wintertime. So you just sit out there and shoot, shoot hoops. So he could, he could shoot. And we're like walking across, you know, in our running shoes, ready to go work out. And there's some guys, you know, playing some ball. And we had one, I think we had one or two other guys with us. And, you know, Rob, you know, constantly talking shit to everybody.

You know, he said something like, oh, nice shot, you know. And the dudes were like, oh, you guys want some? And Rob's like, yeah. And, you know, these kids were wearing, you know, Air Jordans. Yeah. Like, they were, like, they were ready to run some game on us. Nike shocks. Yeah, Nike shocks and stuff.

And Rob, I mean, I get, no, you, he's a little taller, right? What's he, six one? Probably, yeah, six foot, six one. Yeah, maybe six ones. But you're not looking at him thinking he's a baller, especially he's like, you know, a pale white dude with red hair. With red hair. And, you know, so they're looking at us like, oh, these nerds.

And sure enough, man, like, it's a great combo because I could, I had good ball handling. And I was just feeding him and he's just hitting jump shot, jump shot, outside shot, jumped down we just destroyed them and we walked off and with Rob still talking shit. Yeah you know like yeah I mean you know I um I love Rob death uh great guy um you know he's he's always been I'll tell you what he's been one of my biggest cheerleaders um yeah and it was just it was we wrote this book together I think it's you know it's gonna be good you know hopefully it gets out there and helps people and yeah you know it's gonna be awesome right on well I look forward to reading it now that I have a copy.

What else? What's the future? What else you got coming up? You know, I, you know, getting, you know, we're going to do this book tour start in July. We're out there. We're pushing the discipline go, right? The best flavor there is, Dax Savage.

Oh, that's right. Just so you know, Dax Savage. So you got your own energy drink is what I'm hearing. Well, I have my own flavor, yes. Okay, well, it's kind of amazing yours, right? Dax Savage, you know. When's the tour taking place? July?

July. And then what do you go? You guys are going to different cities? Yeah, so, you know, we're, I guess we'll see, right? I mean, we're waiting for- Oh, because of Ms. Rona? Well, yeah. I mean, you know, I guess they're doing virtual book signing, so we're going to have those

going. But, you know, me and Rob both have talked that. We want to get on the road. Like, we want to go out and see people. I want to, honestly, man, I just want to go and get around people and be able to fire people up get them excited about life again you know get them excited it look it's it's it's going to be all right like we're gonna we're gonna get through this you know get out get out of the tv get get out of get turn turn the news off get off get off social media and um stop believing what

people tell you and just look around and believe what you see right and um yeah so that that's that's that's that's that's that's kind of it's kind of what we're doing crushing it well before we jump into this support i kind of wanted to wrap this up bringing it back to to Colonel Charles Whittlesley Wittlese so at his memorial service there was a a friend of his family this is in Pittsfield Massachusetts they had a memorial service and this family friend who is also a judge a guy by the name of Charles Hibbard he he delivered the eulogy and And this is what he said, quote, we can sit here and say he had so much to live for. Family, friends, and all that makes life sweet.

But no, my friends. Life span for him was measured those days in that distant forest. He had plumbed the depth of tragic suffering. He had heard the world's applause. He had seen and touched the great realities of life and what remained was of little consequence. He craved rest, peace, and sweet forgetfulness. He thought it out quietly, serenely, confidently, minutely. He came to a decision not lightly or unadvisedly.

and in the end did what he thought was best and in the comfort of that we too must rest and quote I disagree I don't think we can rest

I don't think we should rest I think we must not rest what I think we should do is help I think we need to help veterans that are suffering and not just veterans but people from all walks of life because life is hard.

No matter who you are, you either are facing or you will be facing disappointment and despondency and loss. Don't give up. You got to keep fighting. You got to get out of that echo chamber that your head is trapped in. You've got to build relationships with people.

Then you've got to move forward, not just for yourself but for the people around you. So let's not rest. Thanks for having me. And, you know, like with what you're saying on, you know, that end quote, I agree. I tell people all the time, you do matter. You do. Like the biggest lies you, biggest lies that are told are the ones you tell yourself.

And you know what? Just as the good times, they don't all last forever. neither to the bad. And you do matter. You do matter. Somebody somewhere is relying on you. Somebody somewhere. Whether you've met them yet or not,

they will be relying on you and you do matter. And I'm with you. Look, there's nothing weak about it. There's nothing. Struggle is struggle. You know, a lot of times people, they see us as, that, you know, we don't struggle or we don't have hard days because we don't necessarily walk around and talk about

all the time, but like the hardest, even the hardest people on earth, they got hard, not because easy times, they got hard because of hard days, and they got through it. And it's a choice. And you just have to continue to choose to get through it. And it's worth it. Indeed. Thanks for having me. Yeah, man.

It's a freaking honor to have you on here. Echo Charles. Yes, sir. I'm not quite 100% sure that it's an honor for me to have you on here, but it's pretty cool. Okay. It's an honor for me. Oh, thanks. Thank you, Dakota Meyer.

It's always an honor for me to be in your presence. Yes, very, very big pleasure for you. We want to help ourselves. We want to help others. What do you recommend? Select. What do you meant? Hey, do you still fly your helicopter?

I sold it, but I'm getting another one. Are you getting like a better one? I don't know what I'm going to get. Just a different one. Why was that no good? He's like a better one. Like they only have like, they only have like so many hours. Was that one getting close to the end?

Yeah. What do you mean like like a projector light bulb kind of thing? Well like after like so many hours they have to be rebuilt. Yeah. What model was that one that you had? R44 Raven 2. And those are like very common. Yeah.

They're like the Toyota Corolla of. Helicopters. Yeah. Yeah. What's funny is I thought of this video idea a while ago, like last year. So I, let's do it. Now he's in the execution phase now.

So he likes to, he likes to. Well, it's too bad. You sold it. No, no, I got,

I got, my buddies, we got like four or five of them out there. So, okay. Let's do it. Well, I gained access to a 3D model of your helicopter.

And I, and I saw little videos of it. So I'm like, and so I made it look like yours. So I was going to do something. But I didn't do it yet. But, you know,

He's been incubating the idea for a year. That's what kind of, you know, activity we got going on over there. I'm still doing my research. Hey, the last podcast that just came out, it's two, I think it's 275. Yeah, 275 helicopter pilot from Vietnam. And they're the best. You usually check it out for sure because he's just flying that Huey. And we kind of got more into the, like, just questions about.

like flying that thing and how hard it is to fly a helicopter and there was one quote in there his dad was a master chief in the Navy so this guy's a freaking warrant officer whatever warrant officer two yeah and his dad is a master chief in the Nate was a master chief became like lieutenant commander in the Navy and then goes to see him or no he's stationed in Saigon the dad's in Saigon like we're doing some bureaucratic whatever logistics thing and the son's up freaking flying ops every day He goes and picks up his dad and brings him up to wherever they were out in the bush and starts flying missions with his dad. His dad's on the 50 cow. His dad's like 45 years old like a lieutenant commander up there just get. They get into firefights, bro. His dad's on the 50 cow. Anyways, his dad says to him like after a couple days, he goes, you know, I work with a lot of Air Force guys and those Air Force, those jet fighter pilots, you know, they're always so positive. They're always having such a good time.

And you guys are all miserable and walking around like everything's horrible. What's up with that? And he says, well, dad, Air Force fighter pilot is flying an aircraft that wants to fly. That if you don't do anything, it's kind of going to just keep flying. He goes, we're flying something that doesn't want to fly. It wants to crash. It's not made to fly. And if we don't balance these four different things, it's going to go down.

And we're close enough to ground that people are shooting at us with machine guns and RPGs and everything else. On top of it. So you want to know why we're freaking. stress, that's why. Next question. Next question, dad. You talk about a father-son relationship after that? Yeah, dude.

Freaking crazy, right? It's crazy. Hey, dad, I'm going to come pick you up and I'm going to take you on to run some. They did three days of operations. That's crazy. His dad shot and, look, his dad shot a 50 cow. He was shooting a 50 cow out of the, out of the Huey. That's got to move a Huey a little bit, don't you think?

Like, you're moving a little bit. I don't know. No, they got so much power. Yeah. I know those things are. Yeah. Damn, but the thing is, like, they do, but it's weird talking to him. It's the first time that I really got the feeling of, like, man, how in touch with those aircraft those guys were.

Yeah, like you can't be reactive. Like, it's like balancing yourself on a beach ball. Yeah, and it's part of them. Yeah. They flew to the point where it's part of them. And so that's why I say, like, when the, like, there'd be like a, a, you know, a, little thing like, uh, they could tell like how much weight they had on. They're like, oh, we're 100 pounds heavy.

Like, how do you tell you're 100 pounds heavy on a freaking hellercop? The way it's, yeah. They could, they were just, they just knew everything and they were so in touch with those birds. It's freaking nuts, man. Yeah, it's the power load. Yeah, how much power it takes to come all. Oh, yeah. Freaking crazy.

Yeah. Um, yeah, awesome. So, Echo Charles. Yeah. Trying to get better. Yes. Trying to be better. What do you recommend?

Well, let's start with these illustrious, healthy energy drinks. You know, we don't all have our own flavor. Maybe some of us do, some of us don't. Maybe some of us have one. Come and get control. Some of us. Some of us don't.

But either way, flavor, whichever flavor, these are good things. Tell us about, it was kind of interesting. How did you end up with this? Who'd you talk to? You. Oh, it was me? Since you're still in touch, man.

I don't remember, man. What did you call me up and say, hey, should have my own flavor? No, no, you said it after I got rabdo on the other energy drink. Right. And you're like, I was like, oh, that's right. I remember saying, bro, you can't be drinking that stuff. What's in it?

It's this, this, this. I went through everything. Like, bro, let me send you some. Yeah, and then you're like we'll make your own flavor. Yeah, then I said what flavor do you want? What flavor do you like? Do you see how did he forget what how are you gonna ask me? He's got a lot on this plate. I remember that now I remember that now, but I remember saying like what flavor do you like and you're like I like Dr. Pepper? I was like okay. All right. We can work with that because that's a cult following Dr. Pepper. It is. People is a cult following. But who wants to drink high fructose corn syrup. Who wants to drink that?

Well, probably nobody if they knew the reality. Nobody wants to drink that. So what we're talking about is this drink right here. Well, his drink is called Dak Savage. Dax Savage. It is black cherry vanilla.

It's totally healthy for you. How many did you drink? You just drank three? I drink three, too. You guys are fired up, man. Hey, that's cool. We have to drink three to stay on your level. I don't know, man. I don't know.

I can't even remember that. I had conversation with you about this. All right. So we got these awesome drinks. If you want to get one, go to get some. Go to jacofuel.com and you can order them. You can also get them from Wawa out on the East Coast. By the Wawa, by the way, Wawa put like, put the brakes on me a little bit.

They're like, hey, well, because people were, like, going in there and buying all of them. And we had to get our supply chain caught back up. Supply chain is caught back up. So roll on. Roll. Go get some. Clear those shelves. Yeah.

Jack Savage. Jack Savage is your flavor. Yeah. So there you go. What else? Interesting. These drinks is like one of those things where it's like, oh yeah, I'm trying to improve.

Let me do a, I don't know, a pre-workout. We'll call it a traditional pre-workout energy drink scenario. Technically, I mean, that's like a short term. Oh, very short term. On the path thing with long-term detriments. Yeah, I was going to say, it's not just short-term like, oh, but I feel good for a minute. No, and now I legitimately am going backwards. I'm less healthy, literally less healthy.

Yeah. Don't do that, man. This is not like that. This is short-term and long-term, straight up. Straight up. Tactical and strategic victory. Yeah. It's like, you know, those combination, ancient combination locks on those old-school movies.

I don't know, Indiana Jones. I don't know. One of these deals here. I've seen Indiana Jones. But it's impossible to do. It's actually not on Indiana Jones. I don't think. Maybe it is.

Either way, it's like that. You figured out the combination. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. That's a short term and the long term. And it's healthy. And it tastes good.

Damn. Interesting. Yeah. Incredible metaphor. Also, speaking of tasting good, we've got some additional protein supplementation called milk. I've been on that. I've been on the train this past week.

I have been too, actually. Hey, is it a violation? And I always am actually. Well, you know how I'll go. Because I got a sweet. I got a sweet tooth. Okay. Is this a violation?

Let me put it you that way. You, I don't think you've done this, but this may have been done from other people other than just me. Put dark chocolate chips in the milk. Come on. No, I haven't done that. But I've done probably something equally. What is it? Is this a violation you think?

Yeah, that's the question. Yeah. I don't think it's a violation. But I have put ice cream. Yeah, straight up into my mulk. Yeah. We'll say it's not a violation, but you're pushing it. Here's the thing.

I did it and I was like, okay, it wasn't worth it. Yeah, it kind of, yeah, the enhancement. I was like, oh, you know, it's going to be, no. No. The reason for milk is because it already tastes like dessert. It's like, can you have something, can dessert taste more like dessert? Not really, in my opinion. Yeah, it's like, I don't know if you like Rocky Road ice cream, but let's say you're going to be like, hey.

No, they're not like marshmallows. I'm going to, okay, all right, cool. I dig it, man. But what if, let's say you did it. Morse, no. Marshallows, no. However, Lucky Charms, back in the Baroque, the D. See, Jock, just eating the freaking mushrooms out of the Lucky Charms.

You're that guy, bro. You know, I take the milk, and what I do is I mix water with it, and I put in a bowl in the morning, and I'll mix water with it, and then I'll, like, make a pudding out of it, and I'll put it in the – so I do it first thing in the morning, and then I'll put it in the refrigerator, and then when I come home in the evening, I eat it like that. It's like pudding? That's interesting. Hey.

And you're just telling me this right now. So basically you just like, you can't put too much water. So you just put like a little bit of water in there and then see if it mixes it up. And if you need just a little bit more, you put it in there until it's basically like, like mud. Like mud. And then you stick it in the refrigerator and it is, listen. What flavor do you?

What flavor do you do? Well, so I like, I mean, I love the pumpkin. Interesting. The pumpkin is like, it's like pumpkin pie. He just looked like an absolute. When he said that, he's like, I like the pumpkin. We talk about the TOTE, the D&T toad earlier. You look more excited about the pumpkin.

Oh, yeah. You got to get on the pumpkin, man. You got to get on the pumpkin. That does make sense, though, because if I don't add enough, whether it be milk, you know, when you make it in the blender the normal way, if I put a little bit of peanut butter in it, though sometimes. So I've, even in the peanut butter flavor? Yes, sir.

Okay. Sometimes. You're going to OD on peanut butter, but it's all good. It's very possible. But there had been times. where I didn't put enough milk or I put too many scoops in there. And yeah, after I blended up, I was like,

oh, this is kind of like almost like a pudding. Now you know to throw it in the fridge. Throw it in the fridge. Throw it in the fridge. Oh, good. Oh, it's, listen, you'll call me after you do that. And we'll say thank you. Your welcome.

Praise be to Dakota. So boom, again, another, another short term, long term payoff situation right there, man. Tastical and strategic victory. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, so yes, go to Jocofield.

That's where you can get all this stuff. Jocofield. Vitamin shop. You can get it vitamin shop too. Oh, yes, sir. If you need to get it. Boom. Local.

Yeah, also there's some other cool supplements on there, vitamin D3. Joint Warfare, super cruel oil for your joints. We don't want to worry about that kind of stuff. We don't want to worry about getting sick. No. Let your immune system worry about that and you just worry about your immune system. Give it vitamin D3. You don't worry about that stuff anymore.

That's my point. You feel me? You see what I'm saying. Anyway, you can get this stuff also at origin USA.com. Yeah. There's a lot of stuff on origin, USA.com, by the way, aside from Chaco Fuel Supplements, which is American made

geese. Geese. Geese. Jiu-Jitsu geese. Rash cards. J-J-Zs cards or other purposes. What do you use a rash card for? So, I mean, I don't usually wear a rash card, but I wear those shorts as underwear. Oh, dang. Let me tell you something. Which ones? Well, either. Which ones?

Yeah, the, I mean, the ones. Because there's like the actual underwear. Oh, like, Dike. Not those? No. The ones like have the the constitution on them. Oh yeah,

yeah, American flag? Yeah. Yeah. Those are, well, yeah, those are,

those are supposed to be underwear, bro. Oh. So you're actually using them in the correct manner. Yeah, where underwear is underwear? What happens when you roll it?

What happens when you roll in them without underwear? Oh. So let me stretch. Really? Yeah. Okay. Hey,

Dakota, Mike, I don't know the answer to that, bro. I'm going to come, I'm going to come roll with you in mind where like I say, bro Dean Lester, no, Dick Lester is right?

Yeah, he's the man. So yeah, that's great. I'm glad he's the man. Here's the deal. Like in early Jiu-Jitsu days, there was like this thing in Brazil where they would wear like, it's called a sunga.

And then there's a longer one is called a sunga. But a shorter one's called like a sunga. It's basically a freaking pair of speedos. And Dean had something like that's sort of like, in between the two. Like, but they're freaking basically, hot pants yeah I mean it's basically a speedo

and he'd roll with me you know and like you know I'm gonna see if I can get a pair and it's just a freaking nightmare and I'm glad that those things went out of style how was it passing the guard dude it's just awful

it's tell you what it's not as bad as north south I'll tell you that it's a freaking nightmare like you want to talk about PTSD bro I got freaking a damn animal male animal in a pair of white, tidy whitties freaking all up on me. North-south with him on top. Either way, bro. But at least if I'm on top, I can maneuver.

Like, we're not doing, I'm going cross-side, neon belly. I might even just run away. Nightmares. I need Ibogaine to freaking recover from that. Mentally smart. Well, I think you're right about that, by the way. Also, at Origin Main, we got some American-made denim jeans, boots. Boom.

Anyway, check that out. It's a good spot. Also, Jocko has a store. It's called Jocko store. So you can get shirts, hats, hoodies, lightweight, and regular heavy-ish weight. Hoodies. This one equals freedom, good, all this stuff. When you want to represent while you're on this path, boom, that's the place to get your

stuff. We also have a subscription scenario going on. It's called the shirt locker. It's a good one. New shirt every month, different designs. Very interesting. I saw someone was hyped on social media about that. Yeah. Oh yeah. Best thing ever. They had the all your

exclusives of a t-shirt. That's a good one. You came up with that. I respect you for it. Deeply. But yeah, that's a good one. Look at that one. Look at that one. A valance for you. Hey, check get that. It's good. Chaco store.com. We also have some podcasts. What's your status with your podcast?

So I'm doing, so me and Dan Holloway do the American Party podcast. The American Party podcast. So what happened to front toward enemy? So when COVID hit, I just couldn't get guest in. That kind of like. Okay, so you're back in the game with Dan. What's it called? The American Party podcast.

So basically we just kind of talk about like what's going on in the world. and we, you know, put common sense logic. Sometimes those things are good. With the situations that are going on right now. Right on. Right on. Awesome. So check that out.

How long have you been doing that for? Since like November. Okay. So that's right around when you stop. I think your last episode of Front Tour and came out. And then we... And you just rolled right into that. Yeah.

Because it's just, like, I couldn't get into, like, interviewing people over, Zoom. Zoom. And I was like, I'm out. Yeah, that's different. It's hard to connect with them. I've done a couple of them.

Not for this one. We're trying to maintain the live situations. I've done a bunch Zoom. And look, it's Zoom is, Zoom is real close. Depending on what you're going to talk about. If people are just going to talk about, you know, whatever, some, whatever, like, not totally surface topics, but if you're not going deep, you know, we're good. Yeah.

I'll do Zoom. If you're, if you're doing an interview. like maybe a standard for lack of better term interview like hey this is going on what do you feel about this Dakota Meyer then then we wait for Dakota Meyer's answer oh yeah but it's hard to have a conversation exactly right so check out that podcast from Dakota also we you can subscribe to this podcast if you want and echo used to seem to think that there was a lot of people that were like purposely not subscribing The look on your face when I when I ask right when I put thoughts into your head and words into your mouth. I'm trying to remember.

Because you look like you trust me. And so you're going to look on your face like, wait, did I really do that? No. Okay. Anyways. That's me trying to recall when I gave you that impression. You trust me. You trust me that I'm that I'm not sitting here just making things up, which I just did.

Yeah. So I, yeah. All right. So Echo never said that. Trust is broken. If you want to subscribe to this podcast, go ahead and leave a review or whatever. I also have a Jocko Unravelling Podcast with Daryl Cooper. New one just came out.

They're freaking, it's a good place to learn grounded podcast about Jiu-Git's a Warrior Kid podcast. Some new episodes just dropped. So you can check that out if you want. We also have the jocco underground.com. Sure. Which is another, it's, it's, look, what it is, it's a way for us to, build a network that we don't have to rely on anybody else.

We don't have to rely on platforms. We don't have to rely on any advertising, nothing like that. So if you want to help out, you want to support. You can go to jocco underground.com. You can join that. And as a thank you, we do another freaking podcast and answer questions. And now I'm starting to cover little topics. Yeah.

Little topics to give people some perspective. Because not everything is a jockech. podcast right there's a certain you first of all you can't have a jaco podcast really that's like 18 minutes long yeah you could but it wouldn't be what people are expecting and normally we don't like to do that so we made this other podcast talking about different topics educational topics life topics it's not all about to do with war and all that stuff it's not all all the leadership it's but but it of course it does include those things as well so anyways if you want to check that out how's this for a topic you

So you can see your opinion. It's my preliminary thought. I think I might have sent it to you. I might not have the fights you used to get into. Not like as an adult, but you know, like as a kid, you know, like you get into like your first fight. Like what was that? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

And then go up through high school. I mean, I don't know. I'm not going to put. I don't know what your actual experience is. But I thought of it because I was talking with my wife and she like reminded me of something. Then I said it. And then she was like, oh, you're this bad kid. And then I'm like, yeah.

Well, when you condense all the. fights I ever got in in my life kind of seemed like I was this bad kid but it was kind of interesting to kind of go through those and like debrief yeah it's like you compare your mindset like as a kid and then versus as an adult yeah I got some yeah that's literally the next thought I had was like I wonder if like because you know how you you went through like some stuff yeah you know with the especially in the hardcore scene and all this stuff and then it's like it's a different that's a different community we'll say Yeah.

Yeah, it's weird to look back at those days. It's very strange to look back at those days now. Yeah. Very strange. So it's like, yeah, that'd be really interesting. Because it's just a different, like what you were saying earlier, Dakota, about being just younger. Yeah. I mean, when I was like 15, like my whole partially developed brain just filled with testosterone and rage.

Yeah. Yeah. We got some interesting topics on there. Sir, if you want to, it costs money $8.18 a month. Again, this is how we're building a contingency plan in case things go sideways. We'll still have a way to get this information out. If you can't afford that, it's all good. We got you.

Just email assistance at underground at jaco underground.com. And we'll hook it up. It's true. We got a YouTube channel. It's official. Official. It's called Jocko podcast. Is that what it's called?

It's called Jocco podcast. And the good video. is on there, I am the assistant director of. So you can check those out. Also, Origin has a little has a channel. A little HD that they put out. If you want to know what's happening up at Origin

as we rebuild America. And I'll say what, pretty soon, it looks like it could be also if you want to see what's going on down there with Origin. Because we want to be expanding in some other states. Some other opportunities are out there so we continue to bring back manufacturing, not just to Maine, not just to New England,

but to America at large, which is what we're looking to do. It's true. Also, psychological warfare is an album that we put out a few years ago, by the way. Still doing well. What it does is what you do is you listen to these tracks of Jocko,

letting you know how to get past these moments of weakness if they come about. Which they probably will. They will from time to time for sure. And if you might want a visual representation of maybe how to overcome some weakness, you can go to flipside canvas.com. That's right.

Flipside canvas where you can get all your motivation you need to hang up anywhere. You can do canvas prints. We have infused metal. We have, or you can just get a, you know, like a poster. Like a, it's all the motivation you need. Who owns that company? I know them. Hey, Dakota has a company.

You hear me talk about it. every episode, flipside canvas.com. Where did you come up with the name Flipside? You know, the last thing that Kenneth said to me, when he kicked off that morning, he said, Meyer, I'll see you on the flip side. And that's where the name came from. Flipside Canvas, just trying to do another little part

of changing the world, the same thing that he stepped off to do that day. And, yeah, that's where it comes from, to motivate to be able to inspire. inspire people, you know. You know, I figured out, like, when we look at something, you know, when we view something, it makes us feel a certain way. It's connected.

You know, our eyes are connected right to our soul. And then, you know, so that's where the art came from of like, how do we put things out to where people see this and feel something that inspires them? And that's where flipside comes from. And also, on top of all that, once again, bringing manufacturing back to America because it's all made. All made in America. It's Austin, Texas.

Made in Austin, Texas. Go to Flipside Canvas.com. Check out all the cool designs and stuff that you can hang on your wall. Got a bunch of books, obviously Into the Fire, which was Dakota's first book. His new book, along with Rob O'Neill, it's called The Way Forward. So you can pre-order that thing right now. That way you can get your first a dish. A dish.

You can get my novel. What Jock will write a novel about? Oh, you write about some war thing? No. He wrote it about a whole. Laundry mat. He wrote it about a 1982 Buick century wagon.

He wrote it about a big box store and he wrote it about brotherhood. Brotherhood. So if you want to check that out, check that out. It's coming out in November. And by the way, if you pre-order

it, you'll get a first-a-dish. If you don't, you're not getting first-a-d-dish. Because there's no way that my publisher thinks that people are going to buy this. They're like, oh, you know, he's a Who's this guy? He wrote a, hey, right? Who's going to buy a novel? He's a knuckle dragger.

Cool. You keep thinking that if you want to get that first a dish, order up. Otherwise, when you approach me with your second, third a dish, it is brutal. Guess what? It's not getting signed. Approach me with a bowed head. I'll sign it.

But bow your head. Bow your head in shame. Don't watch me while I sign this. Yeah, bow your head in shame because you didn't get in the game. early enough the book is called final spin laundry mats station wagons and brotherhood sacrifice it's a poem possibly I just had to I just did the final edits oh damn I got to start reading little chunks of that thing on here get it good people all right um leadership strategy and tactics field manual code

evaluations protocol discipline equals freedom field manual weigh the warrior kid one two three and four and the Dragons about face by Colonel David Hackworth. I wrote the forward on the new edition. Extreme ownership, dichotomy leadership, the OG of Jocko Books that I wrote with my brother Lafabin. We got Eshlan Front, leadership consultancy,

where we solve problems through leadership. Go to Eshlamfront.com for details. We got EF Online. Just coming at you. Got a bunch of new courses that we just put up that get granular on the leadership principles. We talk about all. the time. We got the musters. We are executing the muster. Orlando, May 25th and 26. Phoenix,

August 17th and 18th, Las Vegas, October 28th and 29th. Everything that we've ever done has sold out. So if you want to come, you got to register early, Extreme Ownership.com to check those out. We got EF Battlefield coming up. If you want to walk the hallowed grounds at the Battle of Gettysburg and learn the lessons from history that came from that battle, go to Eshalonfront.com slash events and register. It's like 30 people or 35 people. We sold out the first one. We opened up another one.

It's battlefield. Walk the battlefield. We have dinner. We have lunch. We have Q&A. face to face, it's like you want to come and, and you want to come and squeeze my brain for info, come to that thing. And then if you want to help service members active and retired, their families, gold star

families, you can check out Mark Lee's mom, Mama Lee. She's got a charity organization. If you want to donate or you want to get involved, go to America's mighty warriors.org. If you want more of my bona fide blathering or you need more of. Echo's cumbersome communications You can find us on the Interwebs on Twitter, Instagram Which Echo only refers to as the gram

And Facebooky Echoes at Echo Charles I'm at a Jocco Willink Dakota First of all you have a website Which is Dakota mire.com How do we get the app? Go to own the dash training.com

Can you search for it on an Apple store or whatever? You had to go through own the dash training. Okay, so send you an email. You'll get all of it. Go to on the dash, own the dash training.com. Also, you are on Facebook at Dakota Meyer. You're on the gram. The gram.

At Dakota Meyer. O317. And you're on Twitter at Dakota underscore Meyer. Echo, anything else? That's it. Good to see you again. It's always so good to see you. that was

damn that even hurt me over here well you know he's a genuine guy I like it good energy the intent of that was really as he holds that knife there yeah kind of odd decode anything else any closing closing thoughts

thank you for having me on it's always good to see you yeah man for sure thanks for coming back and thanks for coming back and thanks for continuing to try and help make all of us a little bit better I know every time I hear you

every time I talk to you I feel like you're making me a little bit better and, you know, more important, thanks for your service. And thanks for setting the example for the next generation, the next generation. I appreciate it. I appreciate you. I appreciate you answering the calls. I appreciate you answering the phone.

Yeah, I appreciate it. It's an honor. It makes me nervous, but it's an honor. You know, but the next generation of sailors, soldiers, airmen, Marines, They need to have people to look to, and you're that guy. And to those that are out there right now that are protecting us on the front lines around the world, protecting our most sacred gift, which is freedom itself, thanks for holding the line. And to our people in uniform here at home.

And we know who those are. That's police and law enforcement. That's firefighters and paramedics and EMTs and dispatchers and correctional officers and Border Patrol and Secret Service, all the first responders. Thank you for being there when we call 911. And everyone else out there, remember that life is hard,

and no matter who you are, you're going to face challenges, you're going to face vicious challenges. At some point, you're going to be let down, and you're going to let people down. You're going to have failures, and then you're going to have more failures. You're going to be uncomfortable and you're going to be alone and every one of you out there.

All of us. We're going to lose somebody that we love. That's the way life is. That's what life is. And through all of that, just remember that you have to get up. Remember to give thanks for what you do have. Remember to give thanks for what you can do. And remember that your worst day is someone else's dream.

And like Dakota says, Our last living legacy is a tombstone. And that tombstone has your name and it states the day you were born and it states the day you died. But what really matters is that little dash in between. That's your life. That is your life. So go out there and live it. Until next time, this is Dakota Meyer and Echo and Jocko.