Jocko Podcast - 299: Sometimes You Need a Little Laugh. Sometimes You Need a Big One. With Theo Von.

Episode Date: September 15, 2021

0:00:00 - Opening0:04:31 - Theo Von1:26:36 - How to stay on THE PATH1:50:08 - Closing Gratitude.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 299 with Echo Charles and me Jocker Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. So there is a video and it's out there in the world on YouTube or whatever. You can find it and it's a video of the Battle of Ramadi in 2006 in the summertime. And there's this big firefight going on. and you can tell it's pretty intense there's machine gun fire a bunch of people putting rounds downrange people are yelling and barking out orders and passing information and you can kind of put together that they're working to get a bomb dropped from air support on a vehicle that the insurgents had been utilizing and fighting from and they they get the bomb run and right as the right as the bomb is about to hit there's a lull in the

gunfire because guys are taking cover you know as that bomb is going to hit and then so there's a lull in the fire and then the bomb hits and there is a massive explosion and you hear like a couple hoots and then you hear this you hear this bellowing laughter from one person and you can tell the laughter is sort of it's some surprise it's some excitement it's some level of relief and some it's also just some twisted dark military humor that's making this person bellow out with this laughter and i watch that video sometimes and i listen to that video sometimes not for the firefighter, not for the bomb drop, but to hear that laugh.

That laugh is coming from Seth Stone, and you don't see him on camera, but if you knew Seth, then that laugh is unmistakable. And that's what I like to hear. And that's reflective of life. Because Seth was, he was tough, and he was brave, and he was smart, and he was creative,

and he was a combat leader but above all those characteristics what I like to remember most about him now now that he's gone is his laugh humor is a blessing and laughter is an antidote to pain and suffering and anguish and sometimes it's the only relief for those things I have another friend who once told me everybody's got there Vietnam. And in this particular case, he was talking about the fact that his first girlfriend, when he was a kid, was older than him and was bigger than him, and she would just pick him up and kiss him against his will. And there wasn't anything he could do about it. And so he just had to deal with it. He just had to get through it. Everybody's got their Vietnam. He wasn't in Vietnam, nor was even a veteran, but he was just adding humor.

to life. But there is some truth to that statement. Everybody struggles in life. And those struggles vary. Some struggles we face are imposed on us by the world. Some struggles we face are imposed on us by ourselves. They also vary in intensity and consequence. And depending on who you are, when it's your problem, when it's your struggle, that's the world. And as was with Seth, one of the best ways to overcome struggle is humor. comedy and that same friend of mine certainly has used humor to get through his life is get through some of his struggles and some of those struggles more severe than just getting kissed by a seventh grader his name is theo vaughan and he's here with us tonight to share

some of his struggles and some of the lessons he's learned in making everyone laugh as a comedian in order to overcome those struggles that we all face theo theo vaugh thanks for coming by, man. Good to be here, man. Thank you guys for having me. What's going on? Yeah, I'm sorry to hear about Mr. Stone, man. I didn't know that guy, but definitely, I never been through anything like Bosmati, you know.

I mean, I've had their rice, I guess. I don't even know what I've had. I think. I don't know. I mean, yes, I have had it, and I think I'm going to say I have. And that's actually one of my favorite. I like a long. So Basmati is a good.

kind of rice? I think it is. Echo, confirm? I can neither. Come on, bro. Nor did Jasmine. If anybody at this table has had more experience of rice, I'm going to say it's you, brother, to be honest, man. No offense, dude.

That's an advanced rice. Yeah, okay. Yeah, sorry. But, yeah, man, I never had anything like that. But, yeah, I think, yeah, I don't know. I'm just happy to be here, man. I think, yeah, everybody does have their own Vietnam, you know, in some ways. Sometimes they're small and sometimes they're big.

you know, sometimes they're on the inside of us and sometimes they're on the outside. Yeah, I was, one of my kids came home, and this was, I was still in the Navy at the time, and I came home and there was like wars going on and there was something happening overseas and I was trying to contend with how we're going to get guys prepared for this combat situation,

and I came home one time and, you know, one of my kids complained about something. And it was some kind of real struggle, I forget what it was. But I remember at first I was kind of like, what are you getting me? We're out. I didn't say those words.

I was able to keep myself in check, but what I realized was whatever you're doing in life, that's your world, right? And so when that world gets tough and you don't know anything else, man, that struggle, that is your Vietnam. Yeah. And that's where people end up,

whether it's, you know, some girl kissing on you when you're whatever. Susanna, dude. Well, the tough part was other people were walked like the bigger boy, like my brother and his friends, the bus would pick them up first and so then it would come and get me and so that's when she would pick me up and it was like my first girlfriend so I was also like excited kind of to have her but I was

kind of embarrassed honestly to have her like in front of I didn't want every I was just kind of she was just tougher than me you know she played I think baseball you know and she could have played softball right right so she just opted yeah dude I mean she was doing that you know so yeah they didn't even have that back then So let's get, let's get into, for the people, a lot of people don't know who you are, I guess, that might listen to this podcast. I know you're really famous as a comedian, right? Yeah. That's the deal?

Yeah, I've done with Deweil as a comedian, man. And so I'm grateful to have that. I'm happy to be here today with you guys, man. You know, I really am. Thanks for having me. So you grew up. Where were you born? I was born in Louisiana.

I was born in Louisiana in Covington, Louisiana. So not a real, I mean, it's a good place. tall a statue of Ronald Reagan. That's cool. And he's never seen it, but we got it. So if there's ever like, what's the connection with Ronald Reagan? I think he's made out of copper too. So like homeless dudes are always trying to like get in there and ship his thumbs off and, you know, get the reimbursement.

But why Reagan? Is he connected to that town at all? They just somebody dug him. Somebody that had enough copper enjoyed him and I think donated it to the city to be honest. No, your dad was like an older gentle. men when you were born. Oh yeah. Yeah, my dad was 70 years old. My dad was born in 1910 and um and he was from Nicaragua and he was, uh, so he was a senior citizen when I met him, you know? So. And he was from Nicaragua. Yeah. Now I, I saw that he was from Bluefield,

Nicaragua. Yeah, he's from Bluefield. I've never been there, but I heard a lot of, I've heard it's a tough place to be sometimes because of their politics, but I heard it's really nice. I heard that And I don't know, what's, so what's your dad's, like, background? Was he from there? Because I guess this place was kind of settled by European pirates. Oh, dang. Have you heard this? Yeah, I don't know what my dad was doing his younger.

I don't even seen younger pictures of him, so I don't know. No eye patches. Yeah, I never seen him, you know, hanging out with a parrot. I've never seen any of his, you know, past work. When I knew him, you know, it was just a lot of stories. And there was more like the stories by the time I met him. And stories, you know, they get barnacles on them over time. They gain traction.

They get tread. They get, they take different avenues. And so by the time I knew them, it was more, I was kind of left with the, you know, just the stories. You know, the refined stories, you know. How do you end up in America? I don't know, man. I really don't know. And those are things I wish that I had been able to know better.

And I think those are things where sometimes like, for me, you know, you know, anyway where I feel disconnection sometimes is not having had that you know that some of those types of conversations when I was old enough to kind of care you know um yeah when I was like 12 once I got like 12 or 13 I kind of I was like I mean it was kind of embarrassing you know having such an older day my dad would fall he'd be asleep at like a vent he would fall asleep at the um carpool when he'd come pick us up he'd fall asleep and so the lady had to go wake him up it was always like so much extra stuff that you don't think you have to deal as a kid just a lot of like you know yeah but yeah he was cool though man it was also interesting you know he knew a lot of people

that were about to die everybody introduced me he was about to die so what was the deal with your mom i mean he must have been some kind of a you know he must have had some cool characteristics because how old was your mom my mom was 32 when i was born and he didn't have any money So I don't know who would bang an old dude with no money, bro. That's insane. That is Pioneer woman, dude. I know one woman that would. You're related to her.

That's a good point. I mean, that is a pioneer woman. You want to talk about a pioneer woman? Was he super swab or something? Was he super like? He had a comb, I remember, that he kept in his pocket. Maybe he was. Pretty dope.

He had a nice, one of those small combs men used to keep. They still keep them in Cuba a lot of time. a lot of Cuban men still got that small comb on them. And you think that might have been the critical factor for your mom, looking at him thinking, damn, look at that comb. I think in a small town, you know, it's something like that can stand out. Was your mom from Covington, Louisiana, too?

She was from Illinois, so she's just real hardworking lady. You know, my mother really likes to work hard, and she's delivering newspapers and stuff when I was a kid and delivered all type of stuff. Oh, she used to deliver cookies for a little while for some, And I go laying her car at night and just lay on the box and just eat them bitches right just Just imagine being the almost as big as the box and you're just laying on and you're opening it up and that's my Vietnam You're in the dark. You're trying to be quiet dude and sometimes they would tape them extra you know and you're like I'm gonna be all right

And you just far you get in and you just as many cookies as you could have You're laying on your mouth's laying open on them like chocolate chip cookies No these are I remember the ones they had were kind of a hard kind of yellow cookie with a bit of a kind of this granulated sugar kind of square. It looked like glitter on the time. Oh, yeah, yeah, that shortbread on. I don't know. I was excited about your story.

Like I could picture that, but I just don't feel like chocolate. I'd feel like cookies. There's chocolate chip cookies and then everything else is kind of just not in the same ballpark. I don't know if I'd agree with that, sir. I mean, we don't have to agree on everything. I'm just giving you my perspective. Yeah, no, and I appreciate you giving it to me, man. And I would probably, I'd watch you eat a chocolate chip cookie, I think, you know.

I'd watch it. I wonder what it would be fun to watch you eat, you know. I don't know. A mango, I bet it'd be pretty fun. I don't even like mango, oddly enough. Then that would make it better for us. No, in fact, I don't really, like I grew up my, we didn't have a lot of money when I was growing up. And so we ate a lot of hamburgers, right?

like in the morning I would have hamburger on an English muffin and then for lunch I would have hamburger on bread and then for dinner I'd have a hamburger on a bun so you get no all meals could be burgers but I didn't really I didn't even like steak until I was maybe like 22 or 23

oh yeah yeah because it just it didn't taste good to me I mean I would think why not just grind this thing up and put it on it put it into a patty yeah so I don't know maybe it's funny to watch me eat a burger on a muffin for breakfast. Yeah, I could see. I think that would be a unique show watching strong men eat stuff.

That's a little bit more dainty. You know, maybe have a petty for some kind of a unique, a delectable, you know, kind of a cookie from another country or something. I can see that. You can't even manage it with your fingers, you know? It's almost like a grenade almost to a regular guy, you know. Did your mom and dad stay together? They stayed together for a while, man.

And they had four children and then I don't know what happened. I don't know what happened. And that's kind of when I started to become like mentally, you know, aware of my world. And yeah, at that point, my dad was older. He didn't live with us. And then, yeah, we just had four children. And my mom was working a lot and that's where we were. So your mom basically ended up as a single mom?

Yes, she ended up as a single mom. And yeah, and I don't know. I don't know what you would almost have, I don't know what you would expect kind of having a child or children with the older man, you know, what kind of expectations you might have. But I don't know, you know, I don't know what kind of comfort she needed in her world. Maybe she needed to have a family. I don't know what she needed at that time. But, yeah, and so they had children.

And then my dad was kind of gone. And then I got a little ashamed to my dad. I got embarrassed a little bit. I was just at that age. I think where children get where they're, if they're not like other children, if anything's out of the norm,

then they feel like something's wrong with them or they feel just embarrassed. I'm sure you've seen it with your children was there a time where they get embarrassed? Yeah, yeah, it doesn't, I don't think it matters if you're, you know, like Tom Brady, your kids are going to be embarrassed of you.

Or like Dwayne the Rock Johnson, your kids will be like, oh, here comes the big idiot again. I don't think it matters who you are. There's going to be, your kids are going to go through an age period where they're embarrassed by you. Yeah.

And then you got to kind of like just work through it, I guess. And hopefully you come out the other side and they realize, oh, you know, dad's not too bad. But I guess the weird thing you said, like your mom's expectations. I mean, the fact of the matter is he's 70 when you're born. I mean, expectations are, they're not even expectations. Facts are he ain't going to be around all that much longer. Right. You know, so she can't have a time offer.

Yeah. That's limited time. That's got an expiration date on it. So she signed up for, because she kind of signed up for that activity. Yeah. Yeah, and I think when sometimes it's hard to not hold that angst when I look at my life in places that were uncomfortable for me as a child.

Like, and I'm not complaining. I'm just trying to share some of, you know, share what some of that was like for me. But yeah, I think there was times where it's like, you felt like you weren't part of a plan, like nobody planned. Or if you were, it was a plan that was destined to fail. You know what I'm saying? And so then that almost makes you feel like, well, what's going on if my commander in chief here, my mother or something set me up in this plan that doesn't seem like it has

statistically just doesn't seem super smart. Now, now how old were you when you started having thoughts like that? I was, you know, those are kind of thoughts. When I was a kid, like I was just thinking, you know, machine gun, throwing rocks, you know, taking apart pieces of furniture. Yeah. I mean, just talking ignorant stuff. And it seems like you're sitting here thinking about the grand scheme and all these plans.

Like how old were you when you started going down that road? I don't think I was old. I think I was older when I started realizing that stuff. Okay. So this is like looking back. Yeah, a lot of that's looking back. but I think at the time I'm dealing with the ramifications

of some of that without knowing it without always wondering well what why do I feel certain ways or why do I behave certain ways so like a subconscious that's probably just that probably just a subconscious feeling of man this doesn't seem like this is gonna

even as a little kid you're like man we're eating ramen again right who came up with this plan right yeah there's just no plan like mom's working there's no dad so old so you start to get concerned for your dad's health. Then you have this weird uncomfortable thing where you're supposed to be kind of a child

and be free to just not have any worries, but you have these weird extra worries of like, you know, your dad is getting older, you know? And so I remember being like eight years old and walking a church with my dad, we had a church a few blocks away. And he would ask me where he could walk and stuff because of the sidewalks in Louisville.

Louisiana, the roots come up through them, just like kneecaps, just like, you know, you got a thousand long-legged men buried right there under the sidewalk, you know. And some of them's, you know, they just, it's just real femory along those, you know, the sidewalks will do a damn, they'll be in a damn trapezoid or something, half of it. Dude, if you take the sidewalk, honestly, it can take you more time to get where you're going, you know what I'm saying? The street is much, the sidewalks like the Oregon Trail, bro. There's natives under part of it. I mean, it gets real dicey. So I remember walking with my dad, and he's like, can I walk here and stuff like that?

So then I remember getting in this weird space of like just hyper concern and awareness. That's what I think it was awareness. So then I had a lot of awareness. So did that lead to, you said behaviors. What kind of behaviors do you think that this is a situation where you, were you getting in trouble in school, where you, you know, turn it into the delinquent kid, were you trying to work real hard to make sure you always had money? I mean, how did you react to this situation?

Well, I think looking back on it, and it's interesting because in my life right now, I've been doing a lot of work on this kind of stuff specifically, like trying to just get enough comfort in the sediment, or those sedimentary layers, those real, like, just those deep layers. It's hard for me to plant roots, I notice in my adult life. And I think it's because something is the soil is just,

it's just not enough room in that soil from when I was younger. And I wouldn't care if I was able to plant things in my life that would be able to grow effectively, but I've had trouble doing that, like relationships, commitment to things, wanting to start like a family or have a relationship, but struggle with it. So, and sorry this isn't very funny, dude, I feel bad guys. You know, the one day, I mean, everybody on y'all's show,

somebody dying or you know somebody got knated out bro and then I'm supposed to come in and add some relief and I'm sitting here I don't think there's there's no one really that tuned into my podcast that's expecting or anticipating or it's going to be let down if they're not you know if there's not levity in the situation it's okay you don't have to be funny here you can just talk about just mayhem and and death as far as I'm concerned it will still be good to go okay okay Good. Yeah, I think so. One of the things that I would know, that I noticed now looking back is that I didn't, whenever I realized that that was my life situation, that my dad was real older and that my mom was working all the time. I didn't believe that the world was a comfortable place for me. So as a real young kid, I just, there was enough elements in the atmosphere where I just made that choice as a, my spirit made the choice, whatever it is, something inside of me. It wasn't a choice I made like I would make a choice now. It's like I don't trust the world to be a safe place for me.

So whatever brought me into this world, whatever the elements are, these are not trustworthy elements. And not that I would treat them untrust, not that I'd be mean to them, but just in my spirit knows that you have to take care of yourself. So then you start to try and manage everything yourself. So I was always really concerned with the only thing I had left then, like people would look at me, you know, the bus dropped me off like in the poor neighborhood. And my dad was so old and my mom was always gone working.

She wasn't like a mom some of the other kids had. So the only thing I could control was me, how you saw me. That was it. The only piece of my image I had was what you saw of me. So I would like bike to school so I didn't have to get off the poor bus. I would like befriend certain kids so you thought I was in a certain group. I just I was hyper concerned with kind of image management because it's all I had left. You know, I wouldn't, I try not to be seen around my family.

I kind of, because I just didn't want, I don't know, I was just hyper concerned with the only thing that I had that I still had control over was my own image, really. Does that make any sense? Yeah, it makes sense, but it's like, this is something that you're realizing, reflectively looking back. Like, at the time, you were like, you weren't constantly saying,

oh, I'm embarrassed, so I'm going to do this. You were just like, man, I don't really want to get on that bus or get off that bus, so I'm just going to bike to school. That seems like a smart thing to do. Right, I think, but I start to, I had so much awareness, I think.

I just so aware always. And so then, You know, I just, I think I was making choices that I didn't want people to see me a certain way. How am I going to be? So then I got stuck in this. How can I manage what people think of me? So was the image that you wanted to project? Because you could see there's plenty of people that they're in those kind of rough situations and there, you know, some people go, all right, I'm going to get straight A's and I'm going to go to a good college.

I'm going to do all this other stuff. Or some people are, well, I'm going to become a. you know, I'm going to become the toughest delinquent that there can be, and people are going to be scared of me. So, you know, you get someone going towards like the gang life or whatever. What was it that you were kind of moving towards? Were you an athlete? Were you playing sports?

Yeah, we played some decent sports in our neighborhood, dude. And it was real dicey, bro. We had a lot of people, man. We had one dude who would sneak, man. We'd play football and he'd bring matches with him and burn you while he was doing defense. And that's crazy when you're thinking, okay, who's guard me? You know, Thomas, this kid Thomas, dude, and he's just matching you down. where you're, you know, if you're not making cuts real hard.

So just some shit like that, man. We played in this one field that had a big hole right in the middle of it, dude, or not to the middle, but off to the side. We had this church football field, man. And damn, people would go missing in that bitch, son. You know? I mean, there's a couple. They had a family of 11 that I swear to God,

after a long game was a family of 10. They lost somebody in their little Jennifer or somebody. But I remember they would, dude, I remember. They would make girls They would put them on the football field Playing football just in the neighborhood Spray painting a number on this one kid's back Just all kind of shit man

Fun stuff though looking back What about organized sports in high school Did you play basketball? I got into that when I was 11 I got into that when I was 11 So yeah I think one thing We just were around our neighborhood a lot We'd get home from school

And we would just be up to our own devices You know But one thing I started to notice was like I didn't, I had a real untrustworthy relationship with the world. So I was always worried about, I think, what people were thinking of me. And I felt like people didn't like me. I felt like I think because sometimes I don't know if I was just such an uncomfortable kid sometimes. I needed laughter. So I always felt like if you were laughing, you couldn't disqualify.

like me and laugh at the same moment. Like at that moment, like it was down to that moment. Like, when you were done laughing, I didn't know what you thought of me, you know, and it was kind of scary because I think I didn't think much of myself. And so the only way I had to feel about myself from moment to moment was how other people felt about me, you know, if I'm real honest. And so I think that's why I needed laugh. because it was like, oh man, if I can get, it was the only thing I trusted is that there's

no way somebody could be laughing and I can see them laughing and having joy and and hate me at the same time, you know, it was just, so that was like, that was the only equation that made, that to me was undeniable. And I think that's, and I was a hypersensitive kid. You know, other people aren't as sensitive, and so they're able, you know, they can manage things better. I was hypersensitive, you know. So I'm really grateful that God gave me whatever I needed to be able to find humor, you know, because there was other kids in my neighborhood and the environment that, that in my family didn't get that.

And so it's, and I'm not trying to get any self-fitty. I'm just trying to share what I'm thinking. and feeling at the same time, you know. And a lot of this is stuff I've been working through recently, like in the past few weeks pretty heavily. And so a lot of it's real fresh on my brain as well, you know. Yeah, well, it's scary about, well, not scary. From your perspective is the minute someone stops laughing,

you just want to try and make them laugh again so you can get that, get that good feeling back. Yeah, well, it's that safe feeling. I just need to, it's like, man, this is a place where I feel okay if they're laughing, you know. So yeah, so I think, and I wasn't like a goofy dude. I wasn't like farting into pudding or anything like that, you know what I'm saying? I wasn't some, you know, booty creep or something.

I just liked saying things and I was real aware so I would see things kind of going on. I think I was real aware. And so it was fun to be able to get people to laugh at moments where you didn't think they were. And then you start managing laughter because laughter becomes your main, tool that you have to feel okay. And so then you start using laughter almost like you're calling plays and stuff and you have these little, those are my weapons, you know. That was my knives.

That was my fists even. You know, I wasn't, I didn't have a lot of physical confidence. So laughter was it really for me. That was my biceps, you know. It seems like too, there's an opportunity for someone that's in your position where you have this kind of like insecurity and kind of a little bit of a paranoia against the world to go down the path of like drug and alcohol abuse and we all know where that path ends up if we stay on it so how did that enter your life and what about there had to be drugs and alcohol

down there what was what was that like what was that influence how did you manage that part of the world yeah you know that's interesting you know I have family members in my own close family that have suffered with addiction and stuff like that. And I really love, and I also love thinking about this kind of stuff. Like this kind of stuff for me talking about feelings and stuff. Some people say, well, you know, feelings is the past and actions is what matters. And that's true. I believe that.

Like, I can think all day, and it's probably not going to help me act any different. And I know in my own life, if I do act a certain way, my thoughts will follow me. My thoughts really are your troops, really. You know, they say in a lot of recovery rooms that you can't think your way in the right action, but you can act your way in the right thinking. It's a common term, and it's easy for people that struggle with addiction or addictive personalities to understand that. It's real simple. So, sorry, what was the question?

I feel a little bit nervous. Just as far as what, you know, how old were you in alcohol got introduced? How old were you wearing? Oh, dude. I remember I found some liquor on a, some, uh, Al-Azay liquor or something. Peach mango, starburst, baby breath, watermelon, something, dude, on the top shelf, dude. It was nine different colors, bro. And I found some nudie mags up there, too, same time, Titty literature.

So next thing you know, dude, I'm ejaculating and just, just, I remember falling off the shelf. I never made it off the top shelf. I was there about four hours. I'd never been on the top shelf, you know. I don't come from a real balance and family. So I'm up there, dude, I'm drinking. I'm fucking masturbating, you know, and I remember just blacking out and falling off that shelf. And I probably fell, man. I bet six and a half feet, almost eight feet. So not far. How old are you at this time? Oh, it was probably about 13, you know. And so then, but I had other family members who were struggling with drugs and alcohol. So I had this really, I didn't see that

I didn't see that as like a way for me to get in a thing. Like I didn't see that as an escape really for me. So I never used that as an escape. But as I got a little bit older in my life, I started realizing that I was uncomfortable. And I was,

some of the survival techniques I'd used as a child weren't helping me anymore. You mean even the comedy piece, even making people laugh? Did that start to wear out? Well, or what survival? It was the only connection that I knew. So I had a tough time making real connections with people, especially women if I wanted to be in a relationship or even I think sometimes friends or knowing that a connection was safe. Like sometimes I'll overdo a connection.

Somebody will say, yeah, everything's fine, man, we'll be there. And I'll still be hyper worried about it. You know, when it's fine, it's somebody else that's totally normal, but because some connections with people are always feel real new and scary to me. I think I was just scared to make them. So anyway, I started realizing I was having trouble making real connections with people. People would say, man, I feel like I don't know you, but I feel like I would be sharing a lot of stuff.

And so then I got into, I started going to some recovery. meetings, 12-step. And I couldn't relate to the drugs and alcohol, but I could relate when people talk about how they felt, you know, just the feelings. And so I started learning about, oh, other people feel some of these ways and it's okay to have feelings or to struggle with them and whatever. And so that's when I really started to like being a part of recovery. And there's all types of it, you know.

I mean, there's stuff for everything. There's recovery for people that wear shirts that don't fit. or that fit too tightly. Yeah. I've struggled with that. It really drags me down, hanging around with Echo, because we both kind of fuel up, feed off each other, and it just turns into a bad.

I was going to say, I see who your dealer is, obviously, okay? You guys meeting up behind a freaking AutoZone to fucking pick up a couple extra smalls, dude. The sad part is there is a small boy out there somewhere right now. You don't have a shirt. You don't have a shirt on you. Have we talked about that before, Jock? We talk about that.

Talk about what? Some boy with a small shirt. I don't know if we talked about that. So, yeah, so I think that's where I found 12th step was interesting. That was later in life, right? Yeah, that was later in life. So for a long time, I think I just chose comedy because it, doing stand-up comedy, it's like a lifestyle of disconnection.

You're in town for four or five days and then you go. So if you have a relationship starting, you're like, oh, you know, got to go to Chuck Willie's ever in Tacoma. You know? And so it's like you're out of town. And then you're in a new place where you can have something. You know, it's like the moss of life never has a chance to grow on you, really. You keep outrunning the moss, really.

And the moss is things that are real, you know, or barnacles, anything. You just evade things enough. And comedy just offered me that. I don't even know if I wanted to be a comedian. I think I wanted to not have to be somewhere. So how old were you when you did your first, you know, got on stage and did your first stand-up gig? Let me think, man. It was Rwanda, dude.

I think it was 2001. It was midnight. And I was in a, I think I was in a foxhole or falcon nest or something. I don't know what was happening. We couldn't see. we got a bad batch of banana taffy from the local shit was dicey there were fire

fire ants there was a there was not yeah not firefight there was actual fire ants in the hole even worse yeah um no sorry I'm just trying to um trying to make you laugh a little bit um was it local oh yeah I went to a school

or whatever when I was oh I remember well the best thing was just at the line lunch table with your friends. And I think that's the thing you're always chasing as a comedian is just being in an environment where you're just making your friends laugh, you know. But I went to a class in Los Angeles. A lot of people don't even know that. I went to a class. Like a comedy class? Yeah, like when you see written, like just like put in those cheesy orange letters on the side of a strip mall. Yeah, yeah. I was always wondering who signed up for those things. There you go. Apparently they work. Dude, and it was so weird.

There was some guy that worked. Speaking of autosome. Yeah, totally. Your future employment homes. Oh, yeah, dude. I think the class was even sponsored by like a pet boy. There's some quick oil offering outlet. So, man, we were in the class.

And it was, but the interesting thing about the class was, it was not very, I don't know if it was helpful. It was an environment where you were joking around. But the thing was, at the end of the class, you got to perform on stage at a real comedy club. So that was the thing, and they taped it for you. And this, now everybody's got taped. This was back when they had limited amount of tape.

So you had a tape, baby. You had that cassette, though, you know? And so I remember, I got up there and you had to do three minutes, and you were so nervous, but then you had a tape, and so then you felt like, oh, I have a piece of proof, you know. And then after that, they had a comedy room near me. This gentleman had half a limb. And he was,

which limb? He was missing part of his leg, I think. Or he said he was. So he could have been faking it. CGI or something? I don't know what his name was. I mean, it was a CJI. No, it was a white dude.

Okay, yeah. But anyway, yeah, he opened up a comedy room about two blocks from where I was living in L.A. and I went over there on Wednesdays and there was a couple times where I quit. I moved back to New Orleans and they had a comedy room there. How are you making money when you're working at, I mean, this guy's, is he even paying you? Or are you paying to get to perform? Are you paying him? Oh, the most times. A lot of it was bringer show. You got to bring people. And if you don't bring enough, you have to pay. So that was part of it, man. That's a under, that's a dirty subculture business of a comedy. Did you say bring or show? What did you say? Yeah, they call bringer shows. And you got to bring people with you. And if you don't bring like five people and that,

you know, probably $10 to get in or something, then you have to pay that, the difference, but on the $50. Dang. So. So this is, that's where you start in comedy. That's where it's at.

Yeah, that's really where I start. And honestly, man, when I started, I knew, I knew that I was doing pretty good at it when I started. I knew that I could do it.

I knew that I could do it. And then once the lifestyle came along where you got to scoot around and be, any place that I didn't, have to make a real connection, which I didn't realize it wasn't a strong suit of mine, really. I didn't really realize it at that point. I didn't really realize I was evading something. I thought I was

going toward something. And I think it's probably like that for a lot of us in all types of jobs. You know, sometimes the field I'm chasing, it's not so much something that I'm going for as if I can figure out if there's something that I'm trying to be away from, you know? I mean, that's just for me. I don't know if that's really for everybody.

In the seal teams, we used to say like, well, you know, if I mean things get bad, you know, just go on a trip, get on that plane, everything's gone. No more problems. You're in some new place. Everything's great now. Yeah. That was the deal. You know, so whatever's happening, you know, you'd have some guy living out here in San Diego. He's having problems with his wife or his girlfriend or whatever.

Oh, going on a trip. Down a plane. No problems anymore. They're all gone. Similar thing. Yeah. Yeah, and I didn't, yeah, and I didn't know I was doing that. You know, I just didn't know.

And then also you're out there. You have you were able to establish brief relationships, you know, one night stands, you know, a little bit of sex here and there. A little bit of touch and jerking off next to someone, not even sex sometimes or even just jerking off by yourself and wishing somebody was there, you know, which is really one of, I mean, that was probably two out of three times. I was having a decent lady. Like only one of those sounded like a relationship. The other one sounded like perversion and the other one just sounded lovely. So I don't know. You know, you're kind of getting a taste for maybe what a relationship could be.

But if you got a good imagination, dude, you could have a real dime right there with you, you know? And I was strong, bro, in the freaking, in that middle, freaking cauldron. I was really running some strong suit. So you'd be out in L.A., how long are you out in L.A. for? I've been out there. You know, I'd be out there for months at a time. And then what would make you, would you just run out of money and be like, I'm going back to Louisiana? Yeah, something would be uncomfortable.

I'd have a long term. I had a long-term relationship for a little while, which is like the closest relationship I could get into was having one with, you know, thousands of miles of space in it. And, yeah, and so I, yeah, and then comedy, but comedy kept doing good. It was like this thing. And when I look back, I really think it was something God that just, you know, God just wanted to keep taking care of me. me, you know, even though I think when I was young, I always, when I didn't trust the world, I didn't trust God. I didn't trust that anybody had like was looking out for me.

What years is this? It's probably 2009, about 2016, I would say. 2007. So during this time, you're, like, what's the progression? Once you, wouldn't you do good with bring or show? once you get good at that, like, okay, now you're almost always going to have people coming in. At what point do you, at what point are you thinking to yourself, all right, I can live. I can make, I can pay my rent, I can get food from comedy.

Right. Well, I got a credit card. That's at what point. Okay. When I got that credit card, boy, that Delta Reserve, they hit me up in the mail, bro, you know. And I looked at some of the planes online. I said, these people are doing well. I'm open an account with them.

So I went probably about $30,000 in debt over probably about four years, which was a lot of debt when you never have had, you know, $3,000 in a bank account. So for all those years, are you paycheck to paycheck? Yeah.

Just paycheck to paycheck. Maybe you have $800 in your bank account. Maybe you got $1,000. Maybe you did a good show and you maybe got $1,400, but then you got to buy a new freaking whatever cars. Oh, okay. Was that next flight? flight. So this is a struggle. It's a struggle. It is a struggle, honestly. And I look, I know it's

it's my own struggle. It's the struggle in that sense. I'm not, other people have way bigger struggles. But it's, uh, but that's the struggle part of that job. At a minimum, it's a financial struggle. Yes. And you, are you looking at it thinking, well, I'll be doing this for the rest of my life. Like for the rest of my life, I'm going from town to town, making $480 one night. And you're Is that how much you make when you're one of these level comedians? No, I think at that point, if you do a feature weekend somewhere, you can get paid $600 for about five shows, but you have to buy your flight.

So that takes $300. If you eat on 80, and you're looking at $2.20. Do you know anything about mixed martial arts besides UFC? Like when you're young, these fighters, like I've trained a ton of fighters. That's what they're doing. They're going to fight in Nebraska.

They're going to get paid $200 to fight, $200 if they're. they win and the flight out there costs freaking 800 bucks and they got to pay medical for their checkup it's a freaking disaster yeah this is the same thing right it really is man i think it really is dude at the end they're guys they're carrying they have two of their teeth taped into their belly buttons that'll forget them yeah it's dicey uh yeah it's just that circuit it's that circuit it's the circuit of that thing and it's um the benefits are the things that keep that are kind of nice and especially if you don't know

if other people are settling down getting married, your friends, getting real jobs that seem more real on paper. And those things are, I didn't want to be like everybody else. That's the thing I always remember in my head. I just didn't want to be like a lot of people. I wanted to manage my image.

The only thing I had was everything else in my life since my birth felt like it was like a sentence. Like, this is who you are. You are somebody who, you know, you're not going to be in a home where you were really loved. You're not, you know, things like that. I'm not complaining. I'm just sharing what I felt like.

And some of this might not even be real. That's a crazy part of some of the stuff. It could be in your head. But to me, it was very real. So the only thing I could still control was what I, what you saw me, how I, what I was. You know, and I was just going to hold out to try and be something. I don't even know if I knew what it was, but I was just going to hold out.

So when you're a comedian making $600 for five shows in a weekend that you had to pay $740 for your ticket to get out to wherever you were, what is making it at that time? Because I think it's changed, and that's where I was trying to wonder what the time. Like nowadays, you know, there's different avenues since social media is out there and you can use that avenue, YouTube, you can use that avenue. There's a podcast, you can use that.

these different avenues, but you go rewind 10 years, like there's none of that. Oh, yeah. You can't make a living from YouTube wasn't even a thing. Yeah, there was no way. Yeah, there was no way. Nothing. So you're just, just freaking comedy club to comedy club. What was, quote, making it back then?

Okay. Did you get a, did you, did you see that as a possibility? I got 3,000. I remember they gave me 3,000. Did the Comedy Central like 10 minutes or something. and they give you $3,000. $3,000 for Comedy Central. Yeah.

You do 10 minutes. They give you $3,000. Yeah. The big ass network comedy central. That's like these fight organizations. Oh, it's the exact same thing, man. It's the exact same thing. It was the ultimate fighting.

It was the ultimate, yeah, it was comedy. It was just a different day. It was just a different Dana White or it's just a different organization, you know. But then also they had all the eyeballs then. They had the eyeballs. And so, yeah, so you got a little money. you start to get a little no riot no rioty from the deal from like you could show people oh I really am a comedian that was that's the scariest part as a comedian because you're a comedian

and then do you could tell people you're a comedian but it's a real weird thing to tell people until you have some proof that you are here dude because unless not you could be a just a just a I'm a comedian for all practical purposes right you know well I'm a comedian you can be a murder or a computer you could be a better suited to be a put a a murderer than a comedian, but it's all good. Dude, definitely, man. And I always love peeping timing, man. Since I was a kid, dude, I love peeping timing.

That's really not one of the best things to talk about on the podcast if you want to maintain, you know, yourself not being in prison. Yeah, that's true. Look, I'm a recovering freaking P-Tor, baby, you know? But that's one thing to need about recovery and being in the circles. I have friends that are flashers, dude. I have friends that have done. I mean, I have friends that have just gone and knocked on the devil's door.

Dude, didn't wait it there until. opened it. You know what I'm saying, bro? And the devil works over time, so rarely is he home? He's 24-7 opening that door up. So if you're milling out there just hanging on that freaking Velcom, Matt. So Comedy Central

you got that money. And now you're kind of I mean, other comedians are looking at a piece. But also other comedians, you're kind of like elevated, right? Yeah, you started to get elevated. You're sort of the man. Yeah, a little bit. You get enough that boost that then it tells you, okay, this path is starting to choose you. There's, I

I think there's a unique moment in different paths where you're putting yourself into the path and then the path is also saying, hey, you know, putting its handouts on it. And I do believe that for comedians, man. At a certain point, it kind of chooses you. So once you do Comedy Central now, when you're going to a comedy club, are you headlining now? You have a credit. You're getting close and you're starting to headline. And then you get like $1,500 a week.

So that's when you can start to save a little money. and you're not selling tickets though you were just most people are coming there's a few people come to see you maybe 10 15 people but also back then the clubs had all the email list they were to gatekeeper so they you know you don't have all that you can start to put it together we'd put the cards on the table fill it out and like but then you're coming before you have to do that

and I did it all man put the boxes with the cards do you have a manager or whatever like that thing is yeah you have a manager that helps you through the agencies to get booked. Got it. But you don't have. Are they taking their cut? Yeah, they take their cut.

So you're getting 1,500 bucks and they're taking $150, yeah. 150, yeah. And then the agent would take $1.50 and so then you're down to 12 there. But, but yeah, you're still grinding and I still didn't have any other in life. There's only so, you, I find you, I'm either doing something that I want to be doing or I'm attaching my life to other people and maybe starting a family kind of. There's not really a ton of different. things to do, you know?

Really. I mean, you just, so I didn't, and I didn't have anything on that other side of the coin. I didn't have any place where I felt like I could make a commitment or start a family. So I'm like, well, this is, this shoe just fits so well right now. How many days a year are you touring at this time? Oh, I did, man. I probably did 48 weeks a year. I toured, I toured hard, man.

I toured, I toured hard, man. I really did. And sometimes, and here's the crazy thing. This is one thing I noticed about a brain of somebody that has maybe issues with alcoholism, stuff like that. My brain forgets that. My brain forgets all that I did all that work. So my brain every day has this weird governor in it that's like, man, you got to do something, man.

You know, you haven't done anything. You know, I've got this weird. And sometimes I don't know where some of that comes from. and those are things I still want to figure out in my life, you know, where does that come from, you know, some of those things. So those are things I love kind of thinking about and talking with people about is like, yeah, where do these weird, like, this weird legal system that I built into my soul, where does that all come from?

And it's interesting, you can figure, some of the times you can figure some of that out by talking with other people about that sort of thing. Anyway, what do you feel like the prosecution and the defense are arguing over with the legal system that's in your head? The prosecution is always just a never, there was never like a base foundation that I'm okay. So when I don't have that, then anything else has a really good chance of infiltrate and getting really into me because there never was this. Like I had a friend one time who just texted me, he said, hey man, you're okay. just out of the blue. And because he knows, we talked about stuff he's in recovery and, man, that shit just hit me.

Like never in my life had I just heard that or, and it just came through it a certain way where I heard it. I was like, oh, man, and just, I'm just like, ball, I'm just like, so I think just when you don't have that weird, that foundation of that, anybody just telling you that or the world, or just like you feeling it, you know, then you feel. Sometimes you always will feel susceptible to any other. well then of course you have to build your own thing in your head that's like you got to get going you got to get you got to pull yourself up by the bootstraps so you do that but then after you doing well even that thing's still going on that's a childhood system you put in that bitch is loose dude and that bitch is out there's fucking party and it's got tits dude you know what I'm saying it's turning up and it's fucking dude and it just doesn't there's no control but that thing has been with you for so long that it's hard to get new systems in place to stop those survival things because something had to be in my head to tell me to keep going, you know. But as you get older, it's just still running on the same childhood system, the same original DOS or whatever Microsoft DOS. Did you ever have a point where you're like in freaking whatever upstate New York?

You just performed in front of seven people that were talking while you were up on stage. and then you had to pay that money and you were like, you know what, dude, I'm going to get a job at Mickey D's. Did you have that anytime? Oh, dude, yeah. I got to dive at doing tacos selling Mexican food to people.

And I'd sold all kind of food to people over a restaurant and stuff like that. I used to sell, I sold Mexican food to people when I was younger too. But did you ever have a point where you were like, you know what? Yeah, I gave up at that point. It was a point where I gave up.

Oh, you gave up on comedy at some point. Yeah, I had this girl. I was in this long-term relationship and I went back to New Orleans and worked at a bar and we was selling Mexican food to people above board. It was legal shit.

And they had a margarita machine in there and I was working that bad boy, you know, and just doing what I could. And then some guy came in who worked next door and he said like one thing to me and it just set me off. Like treated you like a chump or something?

Yeah, treating me like I was somebody that didn't. It was like some rich dude, some rich, you know, secondhand generation rich or thirdhand generation rich, you know. Somebody, look, I'll say this, somebody in their family probably had some cotton on them, okay? And I was more of a polyester bad boy, you know what I'm saying? I was one of those fucking, you know what I'm saying? Those synthetic fabrics dog, okay? Racism free, daddy, okay? So this dude, he said something, yeah.

It just, oh, and his family partially owned the place. It was a business next door. They sold wine, like Gary V or whatever that guy's name is Jerry V. Telling people to fucking sell their home and sleep in their yard. You know what I'm saying? And that dude was raised on a damn wine farm or something, dude. He's at a fucking, you know what I'm saying? Dude, hiding grapes in his ass at night.

Freezing grapes and fucking hide them in his ass. And he's telling people how to struggle. Dude, that guy's out of his mind. He's like, oh, damn, dude. Oh, you still have silverware in your house? can sell it and then he shows up and he'll like hug the dude the guy can't even he has no way to get food in his mouth you know the guy's fucking just knuckling through some chowder knuckling through some boule your base and he's like no worries made $76 last night and he hugs him you know what I'm

saying it's like what the fuck and then he drives off and the family's just standing there and apart another winner that guy's out of his fucking mind dude And he hugs. Oh, you sold two extra Christmas sweaters you didn't need from last year and they're crying together. Like,

what is going on, dude? Um, but anyway, I don't, and look, man. I got to give some loves

with my boy Gary. I'm sorry. The videos. I'm not saying the guy's not a smart guy. The videos, though, and the guy grew up well off. Well,

no, I think he actually didn't grow up well off. That's part of his, that's part of his deal. No, you partially lying, really lying if you don't know but he was he grew up you know his dad owned like a corner liquor store or something and he did you know he got after and created the uh but in my neighborhood a corner

liquor store is the same was a winery yeah so if you're looking at it from maybe from theo Vaughn's perspective hell yeah he grew up like big time oh yeah look at these dudes over here huh slanging that re-sling so this rich dude comes in he says something to you he said something And that night I broke the margarita machine. I set that bitch on and broke it. And I knew that cost I'm probably about 600. And that was it and I didn't go back there, man. And then I went back to L.A.

And I was kind of, yeah, I didn't want to be. Yeah, I couldn't commit to the relationship I was in and I just went back to L.A. And so, and then things like I started, I don't know what happened then, but I started picking up some steam. And that's when some podcasting started. and I just was really fortunate, man. You know, my producer Nick Davis, who's a great guy, is a huge fan of yours. And so you were gracious enough to come on

and Rogan had me on his podcast at the same time. And a couple of other little things happened where suddenly I kind of had a fan base. I don't know if there was much space in between. Oh, I did a Netflix special that didn't do anything. Wait, what came out first? The Netflix special? Okay, so that thing came out,

but it doesn't really matter. No one really notices whatever. It did nothing, man. I was so excited. I remember I went to Chattanooga. I'm all fired up. And I'm thinking it's going to be packed, man. And it was a small, it wasn't even a big club,

and there was nine people in there. Damn. So when stuff like that happens, that's got to be tough to power through. I mean, when you're, especially with everything you've said so far tonight about wanting people's laughter and approval and all this stuff,

then you'd release a Netflix be special. There's nine. And this is, Echo, what do you think, man? Bro, I'll say that for somebody named Echo, you don't even repeat much, dog. Oh, dude. I hate, I'm glad to be good laugh at this.

Oh, yeah. That's painful. Oh, it's painful, bro. But when painful, here's the crazy thing about painful, man. When most of what you know when your life feels like painful, then I think shit like that just kind of fucking fits on the ship. So how are you? How are you, so for other people, right?

Because other people are having their Chattanooga experience where nine people show up. They're having, you know, whatever that happened in their life. What did you do? Because here's another thing. When you, you know, we're talking about Gary V. And I, people will assess this about me too because it's like, hard work, hard work. Hard work. And I just had this conversation with someone the other day.

They're like, you know, at my company, hard work doesn't necessarily mean you get promoted. I'm like, that's true everywhere. Hard work doesn't necessarily. Like you can't just expect, oh, I'm just going to work hard, work, hard work. and then things are just going to happen. If it was, I hate to say it, if it was that easy, a lot more people would do it. Not everyone would do hard work,

but a lot of people would do it. A lot of people would start working hard. But you've got to have, like, I'm sure you've seen comedians along the way that were really hard working. They're sitting there, they're doing, hey, I wrote another 19 jokes tonight, and you read them, and they all suck, right?

So when you get done with this Netflix special, you're all amped, your expectations are so high, you show up, there's no one there. How do you power through that? How do you get through that? What do you do? I don't know. I made up with this big, thick girl.

I remember that. Okay, bro. Can we get something a little bit more than thick girls making out? Okay. I mean, that's how I, you know. I'm sure you've been there, dude, being from the islands or whatever. So, yeah, man. I mean, it's like, I freaking did it, you know?

I remember, yeah, well, that was an interesting thing about comedy clubs. Comedy Club's just a bar. It's a bar hook to a stage. So it's like, then there was always a couple, you could always get a couple drinks at the end of the, the night to kind of satiate yourself. And I was never a big drink. I'd have maybe two drinks, you know.

But after that, I don't know. I started to get, you know, I don't know really what happened. I just knew that that wasn't it. Oh, somebody wrote an article, I remember, right when my special came out. And it said like, oh, this would be Donald Trump's favorite comedian or something. It was like a negative. I think it was right around the time maybe when somebody was. of that campaigning was started or something.

And it was, and a lot of my stuff is sarcasm, like a character also. It's me, but it's also this, it's a... A caricature of, like, where you're from. Right, right, right. It's a mix, really. Right. And that made me really not trust any of, like, Hollywood, tabloids, any of that kind of shit. So, and it just was so debilitating.

You work so hard, and then somebody just does something just completely. errands and aimless, you know. When you watched your own Netflix special, were you like, oh, yeah, oh, were you kind of like, damn? Or were you neutral? I felt okay about it. I felt like I went too fast during the material.

I felt like I was probably a little nervous. It went too fast. So I never really looked back on it super fondly. But then at that point, things started to evolve in some podcasts and started going. From my perspective, so I didn't know who, I didn't,

and this is, it's funny because as I was like reading about your background and trying to figure out, because I thought you just, like everybody thinks, I thought, oh, he just made it famous overnight or whatever, that's kind of, and I didn't, as I researched, I was like, oh, this dude's been doing comedy

for like, whatever, two decades or a long time. Yeah, about 17 years. And there was a video, it was Free Connor. That little video that you made, You know what I'm talking about? Free Connor? Oh, yeah, dude, with that bus?

Yeah, yeah. That Greyhound, dude, yeah. We just had a Greyhound driver on the podcast, man, because I used to go hound all the time, dude, I'd go on there. Somebody's like, you want to see something, and it's always their dick on there. You know what I'm saying? Bro, it's like, come on, bro.

So, so. Somebody pulled his dick out of a hat, you know? Like, how do you even get your dick in a hat? You know? That's supposed to be a rabbit. Just a lot of freaking shit magicians, man, out there, bro. So I saw that thing and it just I was dying laughing. I kind of shared it with all my friends because everyone kind of likes MMA and here you

were talking about, you know, bust and every and kind of my generation did win on greyhounds, right? So we kind of knew. I don't think a lot. And in California, like no one takes public transit. So it's different. But across the country, man, you've been to a greyhound station or you've seen some, you know, you've seen some shit, man, in your life.

have you been to a great. If you've been to a gray house. Dude, I saw a lady drinking a can of a baby formula, dude. Simulac. Yeah. You said that on that video. I didn't even know what Simulac was.

I thought it was some kind of drug. I had to Google it. That's making me think of it. I had to Google it, man. So you did that. You go on Rogan for the first time. And this is what I wanted to say is that when I think you had like a, or you have and still have like a like a vulnerability and honesty about yourself that I think is really different.

And I think that that is what makes people make me the first time I heard you. I was like, oh yeah, he's not, he's exposing himself, you know, not in the way that your friends do, whatever the flashes are that you're hanging out with, but exposing yourself. Not hanging. We're on a, we're on a text, like a, you know, support chat. Yes. So I think that was a huge thing that I think a lot of people connected as soon as they kind of heard you and heard you talking to Joe and freaking Joe.

I mean, obviously his podcast is so massive and he's such a good guy and, you know, was telling everyone, oh, yeah, this guy's hilarious. I mean, I remember he told, I think he told me. Yeah, he did. He was like, oh, that guy's freaking hilarious. You know, I was like, hey, dude, have you seen this Simulac thing or whatever? Whatever brought it up. He was like, oh, that guy's hilarious.

So then you, when did you start your podcast? I started, I did a podcast with a friend for about probably two years that was about more like interviewing people that was in Hollywood. My friend worked at TMZ and we tried a podcast together. And it was fun, but I didn't get to be myself. I had to like, it was more interviewing, you know, and I didn't really like that as much. And so then once, one day I walked out of Rogans and I said, I needed to do something more like that. I didn't know that that's, I don't think I knew until I was there and hands on in the environment that that's the way you could do it. Even by listening, I didn't get the concept 100%.

And then I walked out or I said, I need to do something more like that. And so I just started then, I started one in my kitchen and just started kind of talking about stuff and things that I was thinking about. And yeah, and it's been, yeah, it's been a, it's been a, it's been a, it's, been a place sometimes where I share maybe more than I should sometimes and I don't realize it. It's been a lot of different things, man. Sometimes it's been a blessing because it's the, it's like the thing that keeps me going each week. It's like a guaranteed thing. You know, the longest relationship I've had in my life sometimes is with my podcast in a lot of ways.

It's the one thing that I'll show up for every week, even on times I notice like where I don't feel good. The past maybe two years I haven't felt really good. something I think physically kind of I don't know what it is I'm doing like a lot of blood work and doing all these different therapies and like trying to kind of figure out why I don't feel as good as I used to I physically don't feel good so the hardest thing sometimes is when you don't feel good to go into an environment and put yourself out it's like you almost want to hide from people you don't feel you want to wait until you feel okay to get out there and like you know so that's been one of the most challenging things is on weeks where I don't really feel that great

to put myself out, put myself right there. It's like, you just sometimes you're like, man, I don't want to see people to see me not at my best, especially when the only thing I've always had is my own image, how you see me. It's like it's, it makes it real dicey sometimes. But at the same time, man, I've learned a lot about people through podcasting, you know. I'm just enamored sometimes the people that come out and the sweet,

the really nice stories that they share, you know. And then people will share stuff with me that means something to them sometimes. Like some guy came up to me this morning at the cafe and said, hey, man, I got five years sober, you know. And you're just so excited when you see how somebody's life gets different or better. And not that I have anything to do with that. I don't feel like I do. But just that he wants to share that with me and that he feels okay sharing it, you know.

Things like that, man. That's one thing I've learned. through podcasts and is really a power in connect of even though it's not real human connection it's not the hand-to-hand combat of of human connection because we're through microphones and stuff it's been surprising to me how many people connect you know and how many people feel and how much feelings you can get through stuff it's it's pretty remarkable sometimes so anyway i don't really know what i'm talking about but yeah yeah you It's interesting because you were made it, you know,

you were joking around earlier about how, you know, you're sorry and not being funny right now on this podcast. And that's, what's interesting about that is you have some pretty serious stuff that you do on your podcast. You have some, you know, you kind of, sometimes you open up about stuff and how you're feeling and maybe it's not feeling that good.

And, and again, I think that people tune into that because, look, man, if, I guess, I guess, I guess you could try and like fake being funny or fake being funny

or fake being in a good mood, but I don't think you can really fake it 100% where people really believe it. And I think it's better that you just be who you are. And, you know, if you've got something, if you feel like freaking depressed or whatever, then you're like, hey, this is what I feel like right now. And it makes people comfortable

that there's someone like you who's usually funny and seems to have a pretty good life. And all of a sudden they're like, hey, man, this is freaking hard right now for whatever reason, whatever that reason might be. and you know I think when people just knowing that someone else is kind of like there with them it's reassuring yeah and the other thing that's interesting about this is you've been saying this whole time you know that you have a hard time with relationships and long term and all this

but how long you've been doing your podcast for for maybe five years so five years and this is the thing about podcast and I have the same thing where I meet people that listen to the podcast and they feel like we have a relationship. Yeah. And they're right. Right. Because you don't get, you don't, you don't, I mean, my podcast is three, four, five hours long. Jesus Christ, dude.

Now I see what happened to you. Yeah. You said things probably years ago. And there's just not much in there. I bet if we tickle you, we'll get them out of your creep. Yeah. How often do you sit down and talk to anyone? for three hours or two hours.

I walked out of Euro and I remember telling me, I said, hey, that's the longest conversation I've ever had in my life with anybody, especially with a man. I didn't have any male figure. There was no male figures in my neighbor. One guy shot up a ready med 24-hour clinic and that was like the toughest dude we knew.

And he was on pills so he wasn't even really doing it out of his own heart. So, you know, we didn't have a lot of So I think, yes, I've found more probably male influences through podcasting than anywhere else in my life, really, which is kind of interesting. You know, and sometimes, yeah, I don't know, podcast is powerful. And here's one thing that's neat, too, Jocko is I mostly meet people who I would like to meet anyway. It's like the guy that came with me this morning I would like to meet him in

You know like he was some people Like I did some reality television when I was younger You know for a couple years on TV And I would meet people that I didn't know They didn't know anything about me It's just people that see you And that was just there was nothing to it That meant anything really

So to meet people where you You, they know you somewhat And so you would have some common ground you know, it's really nice almost. That's one thing that's interesting, man. I feel like God has given me this weird way where it's like he always is trying to show me that people care about me, you know, because I think for so long I didn't feel like anybody did, you know, when I was real, real young.

And I'm not complaining, you know, I'm not complaining about it. I'm not, I don't need any self-pity. I don't need anything like that. But I do think it's fascinating how. you know, he'll send people in every now and then somebody say something. Just something, it's like, it's just slow healing of this space inside of me that just has been uncomfortable for a long time, you know. And so there's powerful stuff like that going on, you know.

So, and sometimes I can do that for other people. You know, I know a friend of mine, he's in the military. I think his dad had some, well, I probably shouldn't talk about. I might be talking out of shop, but yeah, it's just, I don't know. I don't know, man. I'm enjoying being alive these days a lot more because I want to see what else can unfold, you know. And I don't know if I always felt like that as a kid. I felt like more like every day was a battle, you know.

Whereas now I'm like, man, there's a lot of good stuff out there, you know, and I can be a part of it, whether it's for me or somebody else, if I can just do my best to take care of myself and keep myself. I don't even have to win every day but dude if I can just show up and get a strong tie dog you know what I'm saying if I can even fucking tip a judge fam you know what I'm saying dog

and pull out that dirty W dog you know then it's possible and I wish Darren Till wouldn't have lost honestly no homo bro speaking of fighting what about jihitsu where are you at I haven't gone in probably about two and a half months

I just kept getting hurt so bad who are you training with man you got to find somebody that's going to be a little bit more relax when they train with you. Oh, dude. I'm training with locals, bro, dude. And I was one-stripe white belt, man. And last time I even left because I couldn't find parking, dude.

So that's kind of where I'm at right now. That's not a good side. That is not a good side. I've been taking a lot of yoga because some of it was my flexibility. And I kept getting hurt so bad, like for me anywhere. I couldn't, like, I needed to do comedy. I was getting ready. We just taped a Netflix special.

It's coming out in October. This one I'm proud about. I felt excited. excited. This one is more of a reflection. I feel like of just more of a confident me as a comedian, you know. So what goes into, what goes into that? How long does it take to get ready? Who contacts you? Like, what's happening? If I, if, if Echo Charles was going to do a Netflix special, what would it look like? How long would it take? What would be the Caribbean? I would bet, you know? No offense, dude. You could be from New York. But, yeah, I would probably, I would probably

Do, yeah, something, maybe tropical, you know, maybe some ocean sounds in the back. You know, maybe get that Vietnamese got to go by drinking that cranberry on a skateboard. You know, I would get it kind of, you know, maybe slightly urban, you know, maybe somebody playing, you know, maybe a dog up near a chain link fence in the back. And then if you can't tell jokes, I would sing, dude. I think people would enjoy that, dude. There's something about watching a strong man sing, dude, it's pretty powerful. It's kind of like jewel, but for people on steroids, you know. stood in the rain

you're always crazy like that what you ask you man Netflix special so you got a Netflix special coming out so this is what happened the last one maybe you say you didn't feel 100% on

this one you feel 100% this one I feel a lot better what made you feel but what how'd you prepare for it well one thing I'd stop doing was judicious because I kept my ribs kept getting cracked so I

it was just I mean dude you couldn't do any yoga so when I don't do physical things to take care of myself I start mentally feeling bad. By the way, key point for everybody. You just heard it from Theo. If you can't do physical stuff,

you're going to start feeling bad mentally. Facts. So go do physical stuff. Yeah, I have to. And it's not even fair for me anymore to evaluate myself sometimes if I haven't been physically active because I'm not giving myself a fair chance, really.

You know, I have to be able to take care of myself. I have to be able to be thinking with a brain that's, you know, healthy. So, yeah, so I noticed that. But anyway, they gave us a budget and we made. And I wanted to do one where I felt like this one is going to, I'm going to do right. And I got to hire a production company. And I've gotten to go through the editing more and it's been tedious.

But the months before it, I had a yoga instructor coming to my home every couple of days. I was doing, I had a weight trainer. I had a weight trainer. I was doing a lot of stuff to take care of myself, you know. And then where'd you dig for the material? The material, well, I'd had about six years to get some good material. The hard part was COVID. It was so fresh.

At 2019, the material was ready to go. You know, it was just like a damn, I mean, it was really just like a damn newborn. Like a strong newborn, you know what I'm saying? One that fucking elbow crawls out, you know, with a can of freaking go in his arm, you know? I know. You know what I'm saying? The kind of baby that beats mom home. Okay, like this thing was ready to go.

This thing was 10 months in the, this thing was zygote, baby. And then COVID hits. And then COVID hits. So then you have all this downtime. So I did move to Nashville and bought a home in Nashville. And because the stage was still open. So I could still go and keep this material fresh enough. And then I did a couple weeks in L.A.

because there's a lot of stage time there about six weeks ago. I went there for a few weeks and got it ready and then put it down and put it down in Nashville and it was great man we had like 6,000 people came out

and that's massive for comedy, isn't it? It's pretty good. We did three shows of 2000. Oh, okay, yeah, right on. Yeah, otherwise it would be too big. This venue was just kind of real perfect enough to rhyme and over there and yeah, so it was good, man.

And it was good. And I involved myself more in the editing. You know, I've seen a lot of the ropes now I know when I can assert myself. And sometimes I don't do it that well. Sometimes I'm too aggressive. Do they record all the shows? The first one was so bad. It was like people were heckling.

We built a set that literally looked like a pedophiles, like a pedophile that opened a candy shop. Dude, that's how it was. Okay. Was this on purpose? No. Great question. And you still don't say anything, huh? I'm just listening to me, you know.

You could listen at home, man. You're making people uncomfortable. I'm just joking, bro. You seem like a nice guy. I'm just joking because I want to do anything else. So you make this set. And it looked bad, bro. I got there.

I was so angry when I saw the set. Because I didn't make it somebody. I paid somebody to make it. What was the goal of the set? It was supposed to, the back of the rhyme and has these beautiful windows. and we wanted to make the windows on stage. He's colorful kind of church, churchy, churchy kind of windows. And man, we didn't do it, dude.

So did they change it that night? It looked like a gingerbread house dude for John Wayne Gacey. It was like as if he had entered a sweet G.B. House contest for he freaking got busted if he did it. You know what I'm saying? A lot of if he did it. But it was so bad. But even the next day the guy came, we call him,

we were like, get these fucking things out of here. And I took one of the widows and threw it out of the foot over the railing outside. Piece of shit. I mean, a kid could have made it. It looked like a kid's school thing. So the next night, we just went with a flat curtain, red curtain. And we carpeted the stage, which was a little interesting. I'd never done that.

Because it kind of slows you. To take the reflection off of the stage so it would give us a better lighting, some better lighting opportunities. And then they record them all? And they recorded them all, yeah. And then you, depending on which night you did the best, you might take a chunk from here and a chunk from there. That's pretty much how you put it together.

Pretty much about it. And we just did like two-thirds from one show and one-third from another. The crowd was much better the second nights. We had to get to tell the people to have security, you know, or just have some control over the audience. And people wanted to be helpful, you know. And also the, Netflix hit us a couple days before and said everybody has to have a test or a PCR, you know,

or whatever. PPCR, yeah. So that was, and I'm just grateful to everybody that came out, whether they got a test or made a fake car, whatever the hell they did do. And a lot of people went and got the test, man. And it just, it's just so nice, you know. It just, it just was, it's just so nice to go spend an extra half hour the day before you're going to go to a show. could go and do something because you care enough, man.

Yeah. Well, that's awesome. When does that come out? It'll come out in October, man. And I want to say, before I forget, man, my friend Josh Colp, he's in the 527th Engineer Battalion, is that the term? It could be. Okay.

Go with it. Okay. He's a commander. They're in Kuwait, and they're working in different bases and stuff right now. And I know he's got a family. He's not around. And I just want to tell them I'm proud of them, man, and thank that whole group for their service. And thank all you guys who just can't, who can't be with your loved ones, you know, because I know they miss you.

And thank you. Right on the podcast is called This Past Weekend. This past weekend, yeah, we got, it's always nice, man. It's been a blessing. And this whole little universe is a blessing. And thanks for coming through with those dimes you brought in last night, huh? That's my wife and daughter, bro. Take it easy.

Look, dude, I wasn't going to call him Nichols. Because you mentioned you were afraid you've always had a paranoia about getting murdered. Oh, yeah. It could go down right now. Well, look, man, if anything ever happens to you, dude, I will stay far away from them even then. I'll promise you that. No, beautiful ladies, it was nice to see. Obviously, they love you and it was just nice to see a little part of your life, man.

It made me feel, it's just inspiring, you know. When I see other people doing the things that are like, seem like the hardest thing for me to do to build for my own future. It's like every time you see it, like, it just makes things feel a little bit more feasible or that I know if I need help, I can ask you or I can ask other people that I know care. So it was nice.

I appreciate you coming out. Well, it's definitely feasible. It was a great show. I appreciate you being out there. Appreciate you making everyone laugh. I can already see we're going to have to do this again where we have a little bit more time. Yeah, I would love to.

I'm sorry I have to go, man. I'm thinking five hours next time, but whatever. Dude, I don't know. I don't know, man. But we got, I would love to talk more about the stuff and talk more about other things. Hopefully I have some more BJJ training when I come back. So that would be something nice to talk about.

Awesome, man. Let's get you out of here, brother. Echo, thank you. Nice to meet you, brother. Yeah, you too. Oh, you said it, huh? The, you know how you mentioned how like you'll run into people and you'll actually have like a little bit of a connection with them?

Is, do you think that, like, you know how you share stuff openly more than a lot of people, I think. Do you think that that is an indicator that you're doing the right thing? Because sometimes like, okay, so let's say if you're in the public light and people will approach you or whatever, I think sometimes they can like misrepresent who you are. They're like, oh yeah, maybe like they feel like they know you, you got to podcast all this stuff. And then when they, the things they say or they try to like relate to you or whatever, like they're just way off a lot of the time, I think. Not necessarily in my experience.

Sometimes it can be. You know, but the fact that like a random quote unquote random stranger can come up to you and then you guys can relate like on a significant like kind of deep level or whatever. And so quickly get there. That's one thing that's fascinating. I mean, you could have a moment where you're having a real moment with somebody.

Yeah. Like a moment that makes you feel something inside of yourself. Yeah. You know, and that's real. That to me comes from somewhere else. Yeah. It always like you always.

like you always struck me as someone who's like so authentic and I think that that is a big indicator that you're doing the right thing if you can really like relate to people who you've never met before that quickly yeah thanks man yeah I just I think for feeling so disc it's a lot of it's so new to me feeling connection and so it's fucking like being on a bridge that shakes you know I don't know what you guys call that in you know we usually call it a bridge the shades. I'm sorry. Yeah, but when you say it, it sounds way more technical, okay?

It sounds like people believe it, okay? But yeah, for me, a lot of that stuff is just I'm a late, I'm a late bloomer in a lot of like kind of, like, kind of, I think, emotional kind of ways, honestly. And I'm not ashamed of it or anything like that, you know. But sometimes in a world where you want to be tougher, you know, it feels it feels tough to sometimes learn later in life. But yeah, I think it's nice.

And sometimes I don't know what role God is using me for, you know. And I just want to try and keep myself the best in the best way that I can't so he can use me for the best, you know. And I really believe that, you know. And I don't mean it in a way like I'm some kind of hero or anything. I just, you know, if I can take care of myself well, I believe, and I believe this for anybody, that he, that, or your higher power, it doesn't, it can be whatever your higher power is, can use you for good, you know.

And we need more good out there, and we need each other, you know. Anyway, I sound like a fucking weirdo, dog. Do I sound like a weird? Kind of, but it's all weird. Okay, sorry. Keep being you, though. No, man, I think echo is spot on. It's kind of, it kind of mimics or reinforces what I was saying earlier.

I think the reason that you're popular right now is because you reveal yourself, because you're open, and I think people, you're a real person. And I think people connect to that. And I think it's awesome because I think it allows people to connect to themselves. So I say, keep doing what you're doing, Theo Vaughn.

I appreciate it, man. And I appreciate you guys having me, man. I really do. It's good. It's made me feel excited like I'm doing the right thing. Right on, brother. Gang, maybe. And with that, Mr. Theo Vaughn has left.

the building he had to go bad planning on my part he had a tight window I should have got him in here earlier didn't didn't make that adjustment so he had to bail but we're gonna back he's fired up to come back seemed like we were just kind of getting into some good stuff you know so with that it is good that Theo is you know he's on the path he's working trying to get better trying to be better stay on the path, sober, clean, fitness. What was he talking about? Yoga, like the whole nine yards.

Some self-assessment going on. Self-assessment happening. There was some good stuff in there, actually, that he just sort of like mentioned. Yeah. And I was like, wait, wait, wait, we could talk about, I didn't want to interrupt, obviously. But there's, when he mentioned, the thing about your behavior and your thoughts, like your, like, thoughts and actions. Yeah. So your actions.

lead your thoughts needs your thoughts yeah yeah the other way around doesn't I would say if I was to assess that statement I agree your actions can lead to your thoughts I would say more often than your thoughts lead to actions because let's face it got to have some thoughts to come up with what you're going to do yeah but there's a huge huge space between having a thought and taking action you can close up that space you made a lot better position. Yeah, and it felt like he was talking about something very specific. Like, like, basically, it's essentially like take action, you know?

Yeah, yeah. Rather than just going around in your head. And Tim Ferriss, I think, yeah, Tim Ferriss said that too, where essentially the different way to say it, but the exact same thing is like get out of your head and into your body. Yeah, and he meant, and Tim mentioned that specifically around like getting out of depression. But then what Theo was saying is if he's not physically moving and doing work physically, he's going to be in a bad place mentally. So yeah, you're right. It's the same thing.

Same gig, it's for sure. Unless there's a lot of stuff. Yes. You can follow up on the we can follow up on with you. And I will be looking forward to that. Unless in the meantime, bro, we're all on this path together. I think I feel like it. I feel like we're all sort of when we look up.

We see other people on the path with us. Good feeling. It's a good feeling. So I was doing some thinking about the path. These, okay, so you, when you created Jocko Fuel, you essentially made the path pretty luxurious. Because when you think about how it was versus how it is now, right? Yeah. Okay.

I mean, yes, you are right. Maybe luxurious is not my favorite word. I know you maybe have that lingering in your brain from Theo Vaughn being on here because he and I had had a conversation on his podcast about luxury days, right? Yeah. Okay, so the way to put it as far as how you called it one time, a couple times, it is. Efficiency. Efficiency.

Yes, exactly right. Like, it's kind of like the logistics part of a battle or a war or something, right? Where it's like, oh, yeah, you want these cool new shoes that comfort your feet or whatever. I don't know. That's the first example I think of. But you're like, no, it's not that I need to be coddled. My feet, like if my feet are in good shape, but I can do a lot more running, a lot more rucking, you know, a lot more marching. Yep.

So you're, you kind of took that approach. Yeah. To the path. You'll be more efficient. Even though technically speaking to support your perspective, if you have good boots for rucking, they are technically will make you more efficient. And in some way, that is, some. What luxurious compared to a piece of junk boots that are or bare feet or bare feet even damn But one could think of it in terms of all this is gonna these bare feet is gonna make my feet tougher

When you say one could think of it Yeah is that cuz in high school they're they're telling you you shouldn't use you the proverbial you in a sentence Sure yeah I think I got it from fight club actually to be honest what are they saying I think you said on the plane he said one could make all types of explosives using ordinary household items and then the other guy said really he's like if one were so inclined so it's like I'm not saying me okay I'm saying me but I'm not saying me well it's interesting that's where you got because I went to college and I studied English in college and you you aren't supposed you aren't supposed to say this is

is you should do this or you should do that. You are supposed to say one should say one is supposed to this or one. So, right, right. I don't know. To me, it's the language evolves. Yes. English evolves. And I think we're evolving to a point and I think I evolved to a point where I say you.

Right. And I mean you, you, you, I love you. Yes. And that's actually, okay, that's kind of a good point in general. Because, Ben, and I said this before where it's, it's, it's. baffling how good we can communicate. But when you think about it, there's all kinds, there's the words you say, the tone, you buy language,

all, like, all this stuff is all convey in a certain message. So if you're like, hey, he goes, I'll tell you what you should do is do this. And then there's all kinds of, like, things that you imply when you say you. You don't really mean you should do this. You mean a person should do this or whatever. And I know that. But if I don't know that, I'll be like, tell me what I should.

You don't know what I should and shouldn't do. So there's a, I'm. You have you specifically Equit Charles have a really good point and that's why the English language Technically in the highest level you should be I should be saying one should be saying one instead of you So if one I don't even know if I use that right right there for out of the gate Jamming it up anyway if you're on the path with you know whether you with somebody on the path or by yourself or you feel like you by yourself It's not always going to be easy.

And to make you more efficient, we're going to decrease the beatings, increase the recovery, so we can maximize gains. Best way I can put it at this point. Gains with Z. Sure. Modern English. Okay, so in muscle building, right? You have the catabolic state. You just mean gains?

You have the anabolic state, right? Caterbolic, essentially, there's a lot to. it but is the breakdown of the muscle rest nutrition induces an anabolic state right we want to upside we want to maximize anabolic state on this path catabolic state is part of the process as well but that trans transition from catabolic to anabolic we want that to be the luxury we want that to be the efficient part of it am i right catabolic no bro anabolic Catapolic is bad There's either way.

Okay. There was a funny guy in one of my platoons where when he would get hungry, he'd be, you know, he'd be walking. Dude, we need to go get some food. I'm going catapolic right now.

One of those. That's why I said it. That's real. Leaked back out. All right. Well, either way, we got some stuff for you. All right.

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Pure upside. Kind of like salmon sashimi. Pure upside. Pure upside. It tastes good, good for you. You're better off, good freebie. Yeah. It's the whole deal.

Pure upside. So, yes. in the can mango okay this is just my opinion okay I'll admit mango is the best one straight out

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more efficient mental physical booth and as you normally point out these are things you don't want to have to worry about correct right you don't want to be thinking about your joints you don't want to be thinking about getting sick you just do you want that stuff to be handled handle handle it just handle it that's what we're saying yep it's true also speaking of anabolic protein it's part of the nutrition profile of gains as it were so milk additional protein in the form of a dessert another one of these up win win scenarios. Upside, upside.

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Exactly right. Don't forget about Jocko white tea. If you're into tea, the OG, the original. Deadlifting as well, yes, for sure. So yes, you can get all these things at the vitamin shop. Energy drinks you can get at Wawa, of course. And also everything is on joccofuel.com.

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it just happened yeah what a miracle what an amazing thing subscribe yep and life is full of these little miracles from time to time speaking of miracles origin USA America made stuff I want to say stuff because there's a lot of stuff

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In this day and age, it is a miracle. In this day and age, it is a miracle to put something on your body that is 100% without compromise made in America and it's the best thing you could possibly buy anyways. Talk about upside. Get the best gear. Support America. Support American workers. This is upside across the board.

We're working on big. time upside that's what we're doing no downside yeah speaking of upside so I do have my first pair of delta 68 genes finally realize yeah so here's what that did with it you know you know how like what do you call when you build something up in your mind finding when it comes you have this you know it didn't measure up or did it not you have the high expectations yep okay so did it measure up here's the thing it did they do measure up in fact they more than measure up because you know how like you'll say okay they kind of a stretch tool Cool.

They have a stretch to them. But since I don't really have any stretchy jeans or any jeans with a stretch to them, I don't really know what that even means when I put them on, you know? But it's nice. It's good. It's like, in fact, it's hard to go back now.

Oh, there's no going back. I'm saying, yeah. So yeah, dang, impressive. I didn't know so much could go into jeans. I knew stuff goes into jeans. I understand. What's weird is it's hard to understand how much better something could be.

Yes. It's hard to imagine. If you don't know, you just don't know. You just hard to imagine how much better they can be than a normal pair of jeans. Yeah. And again, to be made in America with American cotton. Yep.

And American buttons. Yep. American hands as it were. American hands. Exactly right. So yes, origin USA.com. That's the spot right there. Also, Jocko's store.

It's called Jocco Store. So you go to jocco store.com, and this is where you can get. I'm trying to think of a more interesting way. to properly convey the cool stuff you can get. But at the end of the day, you can just get your t-shirts, hats, hoodies that represent the path. I think that's the best way to put it. Just plain equals freedom.

Good. Take the high ground or the high ground will take you some good stuff on that. That's a t-shirt, by the way. That's what you're saying. Yes, sir. Hey, subscribe to this podcast. And we also have some other podcasts. Got Jock Unravelling with Daryl Cooper.

We've got the grounded podcast. We've got the Warrior Kid podcast. Theo Vaughn has a podcast. Check it out. It's called this past weekend. And he talks about stuff. And it's both funny and revealing and could help you. I like listening to it.

So check that one out. We're, me and Kerry, we're talking during the break where Theo has this, it's pretty unique quality about him, where he's like funny, but he's so authentic and open about the even not so funny parts of, you know.

And I think some, people, they'll try to do this and they'll try to like, quote unquote, pull it off, but they lack the full authenticity. So they try and pull off the authenticity? Yes. And which is kind of a, what do you call it, like catch 22. Like if you're trying to pull off authenticity, that's not in and of itself makes it not authentic. Yeah, exactly right. But Theo is like a naturally, well, it seems like he's a naturally authentic person. It sounds like from what you're saying, though, he wasn't always like that. And he had to sort of open up about it over time. Okay. So, and, And this is what we were talking about, where a lot of times where if you have the, being funny to people legitimately is, it's kind of like a superpower.

Like, you can essentially bestow one of the best feelings onto a person and make them laugh, right? That's one of the best feelings you can ever have is like laughing legitimately. And you have that as a superpower, you're just a funny person, right? So a lot of people, whether they have like internal issues or not, that starts to become the, the front running quality where they're always pushing that forward. You know, they're always leading with that, leading with that. And it's always successful. Meanwhile, the other stuff on the inside gets protected.

You know, so anytime someone feels awkward or any time someone feels vulnerable, even scared or whatever, anything that they don't like, they can just, boom, they can bust out the comedy and they'll be protected. In fact, they'll get a payoff from it. They won't just be protected, you know. But after a while, the stuff, on the inside becomes more and more sensitive, you know? Where if it's exposed this much, it's like, whoa, the reaction is a little bit, a lot stronger,

you know? But Theo does a good job in, like, opening up and exposing that a little bit. And at the end of the day, as an audience, well, if I'm speaking for myself, it's kind of like, like you just like him more. Yeah, no, he's a very likable guy. And part of the reason that he's likable is because he is like that, like what you're saying. And I even, last night, I went and saw him do his, do a, do a, a, comedy stand-up routine is that what it's called well I saw him do it and and what's cool is like

you could see he's not um like he's he's real up there like he's saying something he'd be like I don't know why I'm saying you know what I'm saying he's like I don't know why I'm saying this he did it a couple times today he didn't even know what I'm talking about right now he did that a couple times you're like okay well at least we know that we're getting the real a real person yeah it's not just a big memorized script that you know where it's all a big front yeah right we don't want the front yeah like a lot of times if you're just talking with your friend and you go off on some tangent or something that's the kind of stuff you're going to say to your friend you know or your friends behind closed doors you know just like in your own little environment but yeah shoot sometimes

i don't know what i'm talking about you know but he's like so open with that and i don't mean open like he's like making this huge effort to be open no no no no just naturally it's like yeah it's just He's a good guy, man. I've spent some time with him and definitely a really good, authentic, nice, funny guy, man. I really like him a lot. I'm glad he was able to come on. You know, another podcast that there is out there is out there? It's called jocco underground.com.

This is the one where in the event of contingencies happening where the world goes crazy er. Because that's face it, the world's getting a little crazy right now. Let's say it gets crazy er, and they either start, I don't know, maybe they start injecting advertisements into the middle of this podcast or they start, maybe they start banning parts of this podcast. I don't know what they're going to do. I do know this. Right now everyone's being pretty cool to us, but there might come a time where they say,

hey, we don't want you to do that or you're going to follow our rules. So we have a contingency. In the event that happens, we have a place to go, jocco underground.com. We're building it If you want to join it You can go to jocco underground.com It costs $8.18 a month And for that price

You give us all a little bit of security In case the contingencies come It's like an insurance policy Against podcast Apocalypse And if that comes, a lot of podcasts We're like, well, I guess you're just going to have to listen to an advertisement about a freaking mattress Seven minutes

We're not going to put you into that podcast apocalypticopo. We're going to be there. Just doing what we're doing. So we appreciate that. If you can't afford that and you still want to be a supporter, you can email assistance at jocco underground.com. That way you can get into the underground,

which is where you want to be. We got a YouTube channel too, by the way. It's true. Verified, by the way. For the video version of this podcast, you want to see what Theo looks like, if you don't know? I think a lot of us already know. But if you don't know, boom, you can see that.

video podcast is increasingly becoming kind of the way to you know to watch listen to the podcast so yeah we have a YouTube channel for that it's called Jocko podcast this is the name of the YouTube channel correct correct and Origin USA also has one if you want to see what's going on behind the scenes up there I also have an album believe it or not it's almost like I made an album you made it yep we we made it collectively made it though I just talked yeah anyway If you want to get through maybe a temporary moment of weakness, you can press play on your MP3 player of choice. You can listen to psychological warfare.

It's good on. Give you a little boost. Give you a little help getting through that thing. It's true. It's also a good way to support you. Flipside canvas, you want to hang something on your wall? A graphic image that says good. By the way, you can go and buy a fake one.

From, you know, one of these various places. Very fake places that are just jacking. Yeah. They have the whole good thing written out. They sell it on a T-shirt. They sell it on a print. And I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about them,

plural, because there's a lot of people. Yeah, it is weird. Super whack. A lot of times those, though, you can, all you got to do is think for one second. Just think for one second. Like, would they really sell this, you know? And then call it this.

It makes very little sense. Oh, so you're saying it's easy to see through the fakeness. All you got to do is pause for one second and you can see it real quick. It'll say, a Navy seal Jocko Willink motivational shirt Okay, yeah, that's pretty often Bro.

I never thought of it that way. Yeah, and that's what they, and so it's like, man, and they're on these like, you know, if you're going to whatever freaking dot net thing that you never heard of

but there's some that you've heard of too. There's some that you've heard of like that sell these various t-shirts and posters and whatnot. Yeah, the only Jocco shirts, official. the only place you can get him is jocco store.com. I can't think of one single other place you can get them.

Oh, if you come into Victory, I'm at Man Fitness, you can get one here too. That's true. So check that out. And if you want something to hang on your wall, like a picture, poster, Dakota Meyer, this is his company, man. Flipsidecanvas.com. Go check that out. Hang some cool stuff on your wall. Books, got a bunch of books.

Final spin. I don't know what to tell you. We're not even sure. I'm not even sure. You know, you put something out there in the world. You don't know what their reaction. The reaction of the world is going to be. It might be good.

Might be bad. So far, we're doing pretty good. Deb. Sure. Deb. Deb. She was moved. Let's put it to you that way.

Final spin. I got that book coming out. Leadership strategy and tactics field manual. The code, the evaluation of protocol. Discipline equals freedom field manual. Way of the Warrior Kid 1, 2, 3, and 4. Get the book for the kids that you know. Just get them on the path.

Mike and the Dragons. If there's a little kid you need. know get them that book about face by hackworth I wrote the forward on the new version and extreme ownership and the economy of leadership that I wrote with my brother laf babin we also have echelon front it's a leadership consultancy and we solve problems through leadership go to eschlanfront dot com for details on that you can also come into one of our live events we have the muster we have field training exercise we have eF battlefield the next muster is in las Vegas it's october 28th and 29th.

So if you want to come check that out, we will see you there. We also have an online training situation. Extreme Ownership Academy, online leadership course. We just recorded a bunch of new leadership courses. So check that out. It's like going to the gym. Man, you don't get in shape one day in the gym. You don't become a good leader one book that you read.

You got to go to the gym. Extreme ownership. Come check out the leadership gym. And if you want to help service members active and retired, their families, gold star families, check out Mark Lee's mom. Mama Lee, she's got a charity organization. And if you want to donate or you want to get involved to what she is doing to help out, then go to America's mighty warriors.org.

And if you want more of my dreary divulging, or you need more of echoes, extraneous assertions, you can find us on the interwebs on Twitter on the gram on Facebook Echoes out echo Charles I am at Chocco Willink and Theo Vaughan well he is at Theo Vaughan and thanks to Theo Vaughan for coming on the show thanks for making us all laugh

there's plenty of darkness in the world and I know sometimes he shares some of that darkness but in doing so he brings some light and laughter as well so thank you Theo Vaughan and to all the folks out there in the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines that are right now, right now, while we're sitting in this air-conditioned podcast thing, there are folks right now out protecting our way of life and we thank you for it. We could not do what we do without you doing what you do. And the same goes for police and law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, Border Patrol Secret Service and all first responders,

you protect us here at home. And again, we couldn't do what we do without you doing your jobs every day. So thanks to you all as well. And thanks to everyone else that's listening. And listen, we got struggles in life. We got them. And it can be a scrap.

It can be a fight. It can be painful. And it can be a battle. But the battle will be. little easier if you have some fun so when you can don't take it all too seriously crack a joke have a laugh and then go out and do what you need to do which is of course continue to get after it and until next time the Zekko and Jocko out