Jocko Podcast - 30: Overwhelmed Countering Mental Shut-Down, Losing Temper with your Wife, Loyalty to Co-workers vs Ambition

Episode Date: July 5, 2016

0:00:00 - Opening / Onnit.com/jocko 0:01:41 - The Aide-de-Camp Position, what it entails, and Jocko's experience. 0:17:14 - Martial Arts for a wheelchair user. 0:26:25 - Countering mental shut-down from being overwhelmed. 0:29:09 - Techniques for NOT losing your temper with your Wife. 0:46:51 - Balancing loyalty to co-workers/team-mates and career promotion 0:57:10 - Are there benefits to Team-building exercises and Retreats? 1:08:47 - Things Jocko regrets, would have done differently, or wishes he learned sooner.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 30 with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. And what we have this evening is straight Q&A, the last podcast that we did on the outstanding book called Platoon Leader, a memoir of combat, of command in combat. It just took me a long time to get through. It's just a good book. Yeah. And I just kept every, I swear, you know, like every time, every page I read it, I said, people got to hear that, people got to hear that, people got to hear that. And then the next thing you know, you're two and a half hours deep.

Yep. And since so much of it was pertained to leadership, there was commentary with each section. And it was like, oh, yeah, you know, this is what's going on here. And I recognize that. And I wish I would have known that. And that could have helped me here. So it went a little long And that

Made us decide to just go ahead and Turn that into one podcast And now here we are coming back at you With a podcast number 30 Which is straight Q&A Yeah there wasn't really one part of that book review That I was like, I could have left that out No

In the industry we call that getting after indeed so let's take into some Q&A here some questions that we've been asked you're going to kick this one off yes sir echo Charles yes sir question number one first question

Jocko as an aide de camp what were your duties what did you learn and why does that position still exist in the 21st century military what's the aid to camp Okay, so first of all, an aide-de-camp is something in the military that it's almost, I mean, to put it in a very simple way that people could understand it from, it's an assistant. It's like an executive assistant where, for me, I was, I was the admiral that's in charge of all the seals.

I was his assistant. You know, that's what an aide-de-camp is. now the question is why does that position still exist or what you know what did you learn well i learned a ton no doubt about that why does the position still exist i think it's absolutely necessary it's a good it's uh it's not fun it's not a fun job and i work for a great guy uh but it's but if you're working for somebody that's not a great guy it's miserable and even working for a great guy it's not exactly the dream job it wasn't for me so here's what you do the boss which is what we call This is what we called the Admiral.

We called him the boss, right? So what we did was, what I did was the boss is always traveling and going different places, going to the Pentagon, going to visit outstations, going overseas, going just constantly going on travel and visiting people and visiting troops. And so I was the guy that set up that travel. That's what I did. I set up the travel. And then, you know, communicating with wherever we were going to visit, like, hey, the Admiral's

coming in you know what do you want us to do is there anything we need to be heads up on so we'd take care of all that and set it up and make sure that the travel's smooth because he's a really busy guy it's like a CEO you know he's like the CEO of a big giant powerful worldwide company that's what he is and so you're trying to make the most of his time make sure not wasting his time during travel and so that's what I did so that's that's part of it and the other piece that's cool is you're you're kind of like a trusted advisor or you try and build the trust so that he trust you

and they usually in our case usually often tried to find guys that had come back from the front lines and use them as the aid and so I had when I became the aid it was actually my commanding officer he

who's a friend of mine and who's a great guy that always took care of me and and he told me he said hey my my final mission as the commanding officer of seal team seven is to make sure that you become the aid to the admiral and you know I wasn't happy about it because again you're it's it's an it's an it's an administrative job it's you have to wear a uniform every day which when was this 2005 and um but it way it was it was a good call that the that my commanding officer made me go do it because I did learn a ton you know you you I've been in in the micro world of being in a seal platoon for my whole life right so

that's all I did and so yeah I didn't know anything else I didn't understand anything else so you go all of a sudden you're you're dealing with not only with do you see the big picture of the seal team is what I saw the big picture of the army and a special operations command and big navy like the regular Navy we interacted with them a lot so I got to learn a ton. I learned a ton about what I learned it's sort of like seeing behind the curtain. You know, you get to see behind the curtain, the wizard and what's going on in the chambers. And basically, you know, like how they make the sausage. You've ever heard that term. You know, they say when they make sausage, like you'll eat the sausage. It tastes good, but you don't want to see how they

make it. So that's, I got to see how they make the sausage. I got to see behind the curtain. And I learned a ton of that. You know, I got to. to sit like there was meetings that I would sit in super high level meetings with very powerful people in the meetings and I would just be sitting there listening and seeing how these judgments were being made and assessing the leadership and seeing what type of leaders we had at the highest levels of the Pentagon and it was pretty it was pretty interesting and I definitely learned a lot um it it was not fun because like I said there was a ton of travel You're wearing a uniform all the time, which seals are pretty well known for not wanting to wear uniforms, real uniforms.

And I'd probably worn a uniform a very small number of times. I'm talking to my whole naval career, a dress uniform. I'd probably worn one 15 times. I don't know the number, but it's a tiny number. And all of a sudden I'm working for the admiral. I'm wearing a uniform every single day. And there were sometimes we'd go on a trip and I'd have to wear, there's multiple different dress uniforms in the Navy and in most of the services.

We'd go on some where I'd have to bring two or three different dress uniforms. So my uniforms were always ready. That was one thing that not too many people could claim as you get really good at your uniforms. But there's also some things that are pretty restrictive. Like, for instance, you're actually not allowed to do personal favors. for the boss. Like, I wasn't allowed because this idea,

because they're very cautious that the military senior people might abuse people in the military. Oh, yeah, yeah. And, like, I wasn't allowed. For instance, I wasn't allowed to go pick up his laundry. Like, if he got his uniforms

pressed and clean, I wasn't allowed to go and run to the store and pick it up if we were going on a trip or something. Like, he wasn't allowed to do it. We weren't allowed to fly first. class. There was only one time we flew first class. That was a, well, we get upgrades after a while because we were traveling so much, but, um, so both you guys couldn't, or just the, just the, the, the, the camp. No, neither one of us. We wouldn't fly first class. Yeah. It's,

it's, it's the military sort of, you know, we don't want, they don't want there to be fraud, waste, and abuse. Yeah, yeah. Which is actually ridiculous. This guy's the equivalent of a CEO of a big company. And they don't, they wouldn't get the guy. first class tickets to fly from San Diego to Washington, D.C. to go to the Pentagon and brief some senior governmental leadership. Yeah, fully. That's a good philosophy, though. There's no waste thing. Yeah, I know it's a good philosophy, but they should have, I think he'd earned at that point. Right, right. 30-something years in the Navy.

Yeah, for that. Serving his country and just to be, you know, hey, you know what, this guy should be well-rested when he shows up to brief Congress. Yeah, fully. You know? So that was that. And then the reason I think it's necessary, again, is because, you know, it's. Because you take a guy, you know, the admiral, they're not going to usually or often may not have been in recent combat situations. And so this aid that's coming in, he's coming off the battlefield.

So he can say, hey, sir, what this is going on here. Hey, sir, this is what this is like. Hey, sir, this is some gear that we need up on the front lines. Hey, sir, this is what the front line troopers think about this program that we're doing or this rule that's being imposed upon us. We need to change this or we need to get it fixed. So I had a great relationship with the boss when I was running that job. And it was very beneficial for me on my next appointment when I deployed Romani. And I knew the Admiral.

I mean, he was, you know, he's the guy that's in charge of all seals. And there I was in Ramadi. And, you know, there was times where we talked directly, you know. He'd call me up and say, hey, what's going on? or, you know, after my guys got killed, he called me up directly. And that really meant a lot to me. And I think it meant a lot to him, too, because he had a connection with the guys that were out there because he knew me and knew, you know, knew me well. So I think that was, I think that was very important.

And I think it's a good job. I'm not going to say you're going to like it. If there's troopers out there that are up for that job, you're not going to like it. If you're a hardcore getting after it kind of guy, you're not going to like the job. The people that actually, the scary thing is, the people that volunteer and want to have that job are usually the guys the admirals don't want because that's a guy that's like focused on advancing his career and, hey, if I can be an aide, then I'll know the admiral. And so you're not going to, those are the guys, the admiral is actually, at least the admiral I work for, he didn't want any guys like that. He wanted guys that are going to say, oh, I want a guy that's going to come kicking and screaming to this job. Yeah, yeah.

Because he doesn't want to wear a uniform. He wants to be in the field. I want to be in the field. Yeah. So that's kind of the aid to camp. So if there's a trooper out there that's going to get pushed in that position, you know, you might have to do it. And when you do it, you do the best that you can.

When the guy that took over for me, he said, because I was, you know, I was, I've always been early to work. Well, when I was working for the boss, I was even earlier because this is, you know, I felt this, this responsibility that, you know, I got to take care of this guy. He's taking care of all the seals. I got to take care of him, right? This guy, the more, the easier I make his job,

the easier I make his life, the more he can focus on taking care of all the guys that are in the field and all the seals. And so when I was show up even earlier than I would normally show up, and I was double and triple and quadruple check everything that was going on. And when the guy came to relieve me

and take my place, and he said, he said, you know, hey, how does the, how does the boss react if you drop the ball on something? And I said, I don't know. I don't know. I didn't drop the ball. I mean, that's, that was, you know, a lot of luck involved. And I had some, some other guys that were with me that really helped me out. You know, one guy in particular is a civilian guy that is steady, has always worked there and worked there for a long time. And he was always covering my tracks and helped me. me not drop the ball, but I never dropped the ball. It's kind of a good answer, though, to that question. Because, you know, if you were like, oh, hey, well, he doesn't take it so hard,

almost like that might plant something in his mind where it may not be as important every single time or something like that. Yeah, no, it's important. Every time you can't drop the ball. Yeah, yeah. You got to keep it going. Is it ever viewed by people or whatever that that job's, like, kind of emasculating or something because you're like an assistant more so than the, you know?

I don't know. Maybe somebody views it that way. But, you know, I'm a military guy that got tasked with a job to take care of the senior seal officer and keep his day moving so that he can take care of the troops. I don't, I think that's beneficial. Right. I didn't feel that way. And the other thing is you're not, like I said, you're not allowed to do certain things. Well.

You're not allowed to do personal things for him. Right. And even, and the guy that I worked for was very laid back. And, I mean, and part of the reason he was laid back was because I never dropped the ball for him. I wouldn't want to drop the ball because I'm sure he would be angry. Yeah. But, yeah, it wasn't a bad job. Yeah, I would think if you understand the value of the job, really understand the value of a job.

You probably will never really feel emasculate or anything. No. But I think, you know, sometimes some of us can go into jobs and be like, you know, I'm a leader. I'm not a helper. You know, kind of attitude. Yeah.

Well, it's interesting too, because when you're working for the admiral, then when you speak, you kind of, kind of, you kind of speak for the admiral.

So in other words, when I'd go in to talk to some senior captains and I said, hey, can I get a copy of X, Y, Z? They knew it wasn't me that wanted it.

They knew it was the boss that wanted it. So people are snapping, too. So it was pretty, it was interesting from that perspective, Even though I was a young lieutenant at the time, I'd go in and say, hey, can we get this, we need this report.

And the guys would be like jumping to, like full captains would be jumping too, because they knew that it wasn't for me. And they respected the boss and they wanted to help them out. So it was you do, you get a little bit of added weight because people know, especially because people kind of knew we had a good relationship. And so they knew that if I was asking for something or I needed something or I was suggesting something, they knew where it was coming from. They knew it was coming from the big boss, man. So it's kind of like the executive assistant to like Oprah or something. Well, look. No.

All right, there you go. We're not going to talk about the person that you just talked about on this podcast. It's not happening. All right. Gotcha. Error. Error. I'm just saying, you know, if you go around and you're like, hey, I need.

I would say it would be the equipment. of being the executive assistant to a very powerful CEO that has a lot of, that has a lot of stress and decisions to make and has a large global corporation. Yeah. In their, under their command. Actually, that kind of reminds me of the whole flying first class thing. And I thought about this, where there was a big part of me that thought, oh, yeah, a lot of guys, they'll just fly first class just because that's like a saddest thing.

and like, oh yeah, I'm this high, so I get to kind of live in this luxury. But flying first class eliminates a lot of stress and a lot of, like, decision-making and headaches. You know, we're contending with certain things. So when you arrive, you have way less on your mind. And that's a lot. You ever had to do something or convey some important message, but you have a lot on your mind and some other stuff? It makes it way harder. Yeah, then I just prioritize and execute.

Right. I know, but it has its function, is what I'm saying. It does. It does. And there was a, the time that, literally the one time we were authorized and executed a first-class travel was when we flew to Europe. And when we arrived at 6 o'clock in the morning, the boss, or 7 o'clock in the morning, the boss was talking to the troops a half an hour later. And then the whole day was scheduled out talking to the local senior leadership. he needed to be rested when he showed up there.

Now, me on the other hand, if I remember correctly, I was in the cheap seats. But you don't really need that much rest. Yeah, young lieutenant can just suck it up. Because it is pretty pathetic. We're sitting here talking about first class. You know what? Let's just talk about Bob Hoffman. You know what I mean?

World War I, trench warfare. Yeah. I don't think he was too worried about flying first class. Yeah. And he had a lot of decisions to make. Yeah. So let's just suck it up. Let's look it out.

All right. Next question. Jocko, do you have a suggestion for martial art for a wheelchair user? I'm considering FMA, just Filipino martial arts, or Krav Maga. I want exercise and self-defense. Well, again, this is, as usual, my first suggestion for true self-defense to protect yourself from the world and the evils of the world concealed carry

you know get a weapon learn how to shoot a weapon spend time at the range train train with it is a more shooting a weapon is a martial art carrying a weapon as a martial art knowing how to use that weapon in various situations it is a martial art so shooting is a martial art and so that's the most effective martial art to know and to have the possession of

is concealed carry, carry weapons. So again, I'm not saying that just because this individual's in a wheelchair. Because, I mean, obviously being in a wheelchair does put you at a disadvantage. But it doesn't matter wheelchair or not, there's always going to be somebody that's bigger and better than you. and if there's not somebody that's bigger and badder than you, then there's three or four people combined together that make a person that's better than you. That's called a gang.

And I will tell you right now, any three people in the world can beat anyone in the world in a fight. Like three on one, you're going to lose. Now, can you get a guy that knocks somebody out, turns around? I mean, it does happen. But if the people that are attacking know anything, you have a really bad chance, really bad chance of winning.

It's very tough to win a fight three-on-one. So train with firearms, get a gun. And you know also, and you mentioned the Filipino martial arts, and I sometimes fail to mention this to carry a knife. But yeah, you should absolutely have a knife. You should know how to use it. So that is your Filipino martial arts generally learning to use a knife and carry a knife.

And then what am I going to do after that? I'm going to do the same thing I always talk about. Jiu-Jitsu, boxing, wrestling, and boy tie. Kind of in that order. Now, Jiu-Jitsu boxing, wrestling, Maitai, we start with Jiu-Jitsu, we move on to boxing, we learn wrestling, and we learn Maitai. Sometimes Maitai and wrestling, you can flip back and forth,

which one you want to focus on. But the deal is with all three of those, you have to adapt them to the situation that you're in, whatever that situation is. Now, if you're in a wheelchair, I don't know what this is going to look like for you. I don't know what that looks like. You've got to learn it.

You've got to understand it. Then you've got to make things work. You've got to figure it out. You've got to test it. You've got to see what's effective. And you've got to see what isn't effective. And you have to adapt. You have to adapt.

And I've trained with all kinds of different people that have their own obstacles to overcome. I've trained with guys that have amputees. missing one leg, two legs, missing arms. I've trained with people that are blind. I've trained with people that are paralyzed. I've trained with people with traumatic brain injuries. And they all work and try and figure away. And they do figure ways.

Too dapp. I mean, you've got guys like Kyle Maynard. Do you know who that is? Yes, I do. Yeah. He's got no arms and no legs. And he trains Jiu-Jitsu and he wrestled. and he wrestled in high school.

Like he competed, and he's competed in Jiu-Jitsu. He's actually competed in the MMA as well, which is crazy. But you know what? He adapts to the situation that he's in. Man, there's Anthony Robles. He's NCAA 125-pound champion. Champion.

And by the way, he has a, one leg. I mean one leg. His other leg is gone like from the hip down. One leg. And he won the NCAA championship. That's incredible. And he just adapted. I mean, you got Jean-Jacques Machado. He's got one hand. Jeffriyal. He's trains with us. He's got one hand. His other hand's gone. He was born with no hand. Oh, guess what? Now all you jih Tjitsu players out there that you think about when you're doing jiu-jitsu with the ghee and think of how much you grab when you're training with jeff you don't even know that he doesn't have a hand you just don't even know he just does other stuff he's adapted to it as a matter of fact he uses that stump to choke you and attack you

he gets in there yeah he he sneaks that thing in there um what about max maximilian yeah yeah yeah max right wheelchair max he's he's paralyzed but and that's recent too so yeah yeah you know it's You know, he got paralyzed, what? Three years, four years ago, five years ago? Something like that. Yeah. He was like maybe a white belt. Maybe a blue belt.

He's a blue belt. I think he's purple now. Yeah, I think he's a purple now. But, I mean, he's got basically, I think it's about sternum down. He's completely paralyzed, sternum down. Yeah. And so he's figured out. He actually has to move his legs.

You know, like when you're rolling with him, he's got to grab his legs and move them into different positions. Yep. Which is, which is crazy. But he's still training. He's advancing in his and he's learning to adapt. He knows how to choke you. He's figured things out.

So whether you're short or tall, big or small, older, young, strong, or weak, wheelchair, no wheelchair, leg, no leg, learn it. Learn it all. And start with jiu-jitsu, learn some boxing, some more time than wrestling. And then once you get that base built up, start looking at Krav Magas, start looking at Krav Magas, start looking at collie so you can learn you know if you want to learn weapons and obviously from the beginning um the the firearm trumps everything yeah yeah especially when when you're training with um like any kind of disadvantage or whatever i think it's important to understand what your potential goal will be in a self-defense situation so if you're you know like if you don't have

legs like max for example like you can learn a lot of stuff that is just just defensive. And if you know Jiu Jitsu, and I'm going to sound like a Jiu Jitsu advocate, which I am. But if you learn Jiu Jitsu,

you'll learn how to be defensive, how you can shut down another guy's attacks. And so like I said, like if your disadvantage is pretty big, just understand what your goals will be in a potential self-defense situation.

You know, so you're not going to be like, okay, I'm going to learn these martial arts so I can kick as much, much ass as I possibly can. That's the point. The point of this is that you have to adapt.

You have to adapt. You have to say, okay, this is what I'm able to do. I can't do that move, but I can do this move. Right. And by the way, you can't do this, but I can do that. Yes. And, you know, like, we were just talking about Jeffrey Al. Jeffrey Al is a guy I trained with him most regularly out of these folks.

And he has adapted and does things that you, that is totally unique to him. And he makes an advantage. He takes a disadvantage, turns it. into an advantage. Yeah, there's an MMA guy who was the champ in one of these shows. I forget. It might have been Bellator, maybe. I don't know.

I forget. But he had one hand, too. He was the champ, though. I think one arm... How do I not know who that is? I forget his name, too. But it was like maybe a year ago or something or more. A while ago, a year?

MMA's been around for 20 plus years in America. You know, the current champ has always seemed so new. Yeah, that's a... That's awesome. That is definitely an outstanding to see people overcome that and what you can do. You just got to have that, that, the creative mind to get in there and adapt to the situation. Yeah, and it goes along with kind of what, I think it was, I forget to move, but how they say, you know, a little exercise is better than no exercise, you know? So sometimes, like if you find yourself in a wheelchair,

or something like this where he'll be like, oh yeah, that's not for me, but this obviously is for him, you know? So get out there and like how you say, like learn something or learn it all, whatever, that's better than not knowing nothing. Yeah, way better too. Yeah, it is. Especially if it's toochut too. Good.

Get after it. That's it. Next question. Jocko. Mr. Jocco. Whenever I get mentally overwhelmed, I shut down completely. How do I counter that? Well, the first thing and the first good step that you've already made is you've identified

this is an issue. You recognize the fact that you shut down. That's step number one in solving your problem is identifying your problem. So excellent work there. The next step is actually pretty easy as well. You've identified the fact that you shut down. The next step that you're going to do is not shut down. Not mentally shut down.

That's what you want to do. If you start to shut down and you feel yourself freezing up and say, I'm not going to shut down right now. I'm going to attack this issue. Now, the reason that you're getting overrearmed, most likely, is because there's a lot of different things flying at you at the same time, and they're all happening at once, and it's problematic for you. We have a very simple solution for that. It's prioritized and execute. So what is the biggest problem that you've got going on?

Let's identify what that biggest problem is. Then let's attack that problem and get it solved. Once we got that one solved, we can move on to the next one. Once we get care of that one, we can move on to the next one. We go right on down the line. And that's what we do. That's very simple. You know that you're going to get overwhelmed.

First of all, tell yourself you're not going to go overwhelmed. Then you actually don't get overwhelmed. And how do you not get overwhelmed? You prioritize and execute. If you start feeling yourself getting overwhelmed, do what I did to the platoon commander that I had that was getting all freaked out during, during Humvee I ad drills

to immediate action drills where you're patrolling through the desert and we have little electrical targets that pop up and then you everyone starts shooting

at the targets and this guy was locking up and not making any decisions even though he's the leader and this is the one where I took a magic marker and I wrote on

with a Sharpie right in front of his face on the Humvee window I said next time the shooting starts here's what I want you want you do number one Relax. Number two, look around. Number three, make a call.

It's real easy. So step number one, when you're getting overwhelmed, relax. Relax. Breathe, take a step back. Just take a step back. The red flags start going off in your head and you're realizing that you're getting overwhelmed and you're going to get shut down. No.

Just take a step back, relax, and then prioritize and execute. Pretty simple. Make a call. Yeah. It's good. Simple. Next question. Let's do it.

What technique do you use to not lose your temper with your wife? Oh. When you know she's wrong and refuses to budge. Well, this is kind of a, this question is actually moot because my wife is never wrong. So number one, losing your temper. Losing your temper is weak. It's actually weak. It's actually weak to lose your temper.

It actually is a loss of control when you lose your temper and losing control is also weak. So we don't want to lose our temper. That's one of our goals. So again, just like prioritized and execute, what do you do when you start feeling yourself losing your temper? Stop. Take a step back, detach from it, breathe. And then you've got to think about the long-term victory.

And we've talked about this before. we've talked about this before proving that you're right to your wife is not necessarily the best goal to have what you want to do is you want to

you want to win the war not that one battle the one battle doesn't even matter I mean what is this stupid argument about anyways it's not about something that matters it isn't I can almost guarantee

it's not about something that matters It's about some random thing that doesn't matter in the big picture at all. So why are you getting upset about it? Why are you losing control? Why are you losing your type? You can't do that. You can't do that. So when you feel like you're coming up against the, this is Sun Su, you know, you're going against a heavily defended position.

Don't attack the heavily defended position. If your wife is not admitting that she's wrong, and she's refusing to budge, what if you're What are you doing when you're attacking her? You're actually attacking a heavily defended position. Sun Su told you not to do that 25, 100 years ago, and it holds true to this day. So what are you going to do when they're not budging? You're going to flank them.

You're going to flank them. You're going to move around to the outside and come in from another angle that they weren't expecting. You know, maybe that other angle looks like flowers. Maybe the other angle looks like dills. or maybe it looks like, maybe it just looks like changing the subject to something that they can be more flexible mentally on.

Because if you go against that hardened position, I can almost guarantee you it's not going to, they're not going to budge on it. And all you, what you're going to do to try and get them to budge is you're going to escalate yourself. Oh, you're not budging, I'm going to hit it harder.

Oh, you're still not budging. I'm going to go even harder. You're still not budging, and going even harder. That whole time, every time you're going harder, they're digging the defenses in deeper, deeper, deeper. You know, and they're remembering how,

how mean you were or whatever, especially if you're in a lost temper situation. Oh, yeah. Now you're taking serious detriment to your long-term war. Yeah. Because you've, now you've given them ammunition. You've given them ammunition for future use. Bad move.

It's a bad move. So, again, what isn't, what, who's right and who's wrong? is just not important. It's so hard to get through people's head. Who's right and who's wrong on some little tactical battle of today that really has no bearing on anything in the world?

This is not something to be concerned about. So it might be your own ego that wants to be right. Have we thought about that factor? Have we thought about that you, as a man, as a husband, you want to be right to? So guess who the person that isn't budge? Guess who the person that doesn't budging is It's you

It's you Now you might be quote unquote right But it doesn't matter You're the person that won't budge Now neither one of you will budge Neither one of you will budge We're not in a good situation We're just in an escalating

War of Destruction And we don't want that Because we want to win the long term Strategic War That's what we're looking at Just the long term strategic war the little stuff in between we just not concerned about.

Yeah. Yeah, fully. And the whole not budging thing, too, like that hurts. And I used to think about this early on in my relationship where I would get, we'd get in like, you know, little arguments or whatever,

varying levels. And sometimes she would like... Can you even come up with an example of something you'd argue about? Because as I was trying to think, as I was sitting here, as I was answering this question, I was trying to think of a good example.

I can't even think of a good example. Because they're all so stupid. Yeah, so, yeah, a good example, no. Yeah, that's hard. Not really. But, so she would be like, oh, I just don't want to talk about it anymore. But meanwhile, I'm still salty. Like, hey, we didn't resolve this.

You know, there's certain code words. Like a safe word? That girls, that women, that guys have it, too. but in particular, I've noticed it with some of my friends' wives. And one of my wives, she'll say, it doesn't matter. What do you mean buzzword, like a code word, like a safe word? It's a red flag. So I'll give an example.

It'll just be a, it'll be a giant red flag that she's angry. She doesn't, nothing I say is going to matter anymore. She's not going to change her mind. And she's just going to go forward. And she'll be like, oh, it doesn't matter. I'm like, oh, okay. Morning. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Big H is angry. That's what it means. So when I hear her say, it doesn't matter, I just realize, okay, now I just hit it in a heavily defended position. And I'm going to stop attacking it. I'm going to flank. I'm going to talk about something else.

I'm coming in from the side hatch. That's what I'm going to do. Yeah. Yeah, man, I wish I would have known that long time ago. I think that when... Wait, what did you just say that your wife said to you? Because you just said a code word. I don't want to talk about it.

There you go. That's another one. I don't want to talk about this. That's a red flag. Well, in my mind, it was like, yay, let's talk about it. I would try to do it in a conducive way, like a problem solving kind of way. But she just didn't feel the same way about the whole situation. You know, she handles it different.

And, you know, ultimately I still feel like if two people are willing to talk it out kind of without too much emotion, I think that's an effective way to do it. But nonetheless, what this would cause is, and this is going back to people not budging. So what that would cause is all this time that would go on that we're not on good terms, you know, because I want to talk about it. She doesn't want to talk about it. She just wants to, I don't know, go to bed, you know. Meanwhile, I am with the philosophy of don't go to bed in an argument or whatever, you know. But meanwhile, we're at odds, even just a little bit.

Even if we don't talk about it, she forgets about it, I'm still at odds. I'm not budging with my philosophy, you know. So at the end of the day When you look back at all the minutes All the hours all the days That you spent With each other And now you have that

That sum of Moments that you're at odds You look at your relationship You're like man this relationship isn't that good Because you spent that much time at odds with each other Yeah Just because you didn't want to budge Yes

So you got a budge You got a budge one of my buddies I was hanging around him and his wife and her little buzzword where I was like, oh, I picked up on it pretty quickly.

She would say, that's fine. And I was like, and at first couple times, I was like, oh, it's fine with her. And then I realized

it does not mean that's fine. I think, yeah, man, I think that's kind of a common knowledge one though with girls.

Like you could look that up. Doesn't matter. That's fine. It's fine. Whatever. Well, whatever's offensive, though. Oh,

They know if they say whatever, then that means that's fighting words. Because if you'll notice, that's fine, and it doesn't matter. They are all, they are all, like, sort of passive,

a way of saying, like, oh, let's just move on. Yeah. I don't want to talk about it. That one's a borderline. Yeah,

or it's like one of the, I don't know, I don't know if there's a word for it. So what's good is when you're, when you detach from these situations, you start to pick up on these things that your significant other. And also, when you're in a relationship,

you're in a team building, or a team environment, or you're in a business, you start to realize that guys or people you work with will have the same thing. Well, they'll say, you know what, it's your call. Okay.

I know it's my call, but I'm not trying to impose this plan on you. Let's figure it out. No, it's your call. We'll go ahead. So that means you clearly don't agree with it. Of course, you can't say this to them because they're already dug in

on the fact that you're wrong. Yep. So those are little red flags you got to look out for in the world. Yeah. So and even back and that, that's fine. And even that's a complex thing because you know when someone says, fine, you know, or what's wrong? What's wrong?

Nothing. Right. Oh. Even though you know or you have reason to believe that it's not fine, especially the fine or that's fine, you have good reason to believe that it's not fine. Right. So in your mind, it's logical to think, hey, you shouldn't say, you're fine when you're not fine.

You actively chose to say you're fine when you're not fine factually. So it's easy to come to that logical conclusion. Well, there's your problem. Right, but I'm just, I know, it's just, it's not that simple, it's not that black and white. So, and I'm saying this because

I kind of, up until really recently, I thought that, hey, look, I'm not really wrong with this thing. I ask you a very specific question. If you're saying you're fine, it's like it doesn't even matter what you say I have to read like your mind

or your body language and like everything you know and disregard your words and only under these circumstances not when I say hey do you need I don't know milk from the store you say no I know you mean yeah you know it doesn't work like that

it's only under this circumstance so it's like I'm thinking hey man that's kind of that's not very good that's a bad thing and a habit to get in So if you're not fine, you should say you're not fine. That's my logic is what I'm saying. But here's the thing. When you're in a relationship with someone and I understand it starts at the beginning

where you're trying to figure all this stuff out. That's what the beginning of relationship for. But after a while, you start to know, okay, I know that tone. I know when you say fine, it's not fine. The thing that's jacked up is when people don't realize that. What? That means something else. That's a code word that means something else.

Right, right. And what it's signifying is you are coming up against a heavily defended area. I'm not changing my mind, but I'm not going to sit here and argue about it. So you know what? Doesn't matter is what my wife would say. Yeah. Oh, it doesn't matter. Bro, man.

It matters. When Sarah would say, I don't want to argue, I don't want to argue about this, it's fine. Let's not talk about it. That would enrage me further. Not like, I'm not a lose temper kind of, whatever, but. It would frustrate you. It would make me, like, no, we have to go to, it's like, you know, if you have like, fucking like a

like a splinter like if you have a splinter in your hand or something not talking about it is like I just leave it let the skin grow over it and you'll be fine and the thing is you probably will be fine but he still got that splinter in there

me I'm like okay let's talk about it let's open it up and get the splinter out but she's like no you know I can't always recommend ripping that splinter out yeah and yeah I know sometimes again you're going up against a hardened

defensive area. And that's what we're talking about here. That's what the question is. The question is, how do you not lose your temper with your wife when you know she's wrong and she refused to put you know how you, you know how you don't do it? You know how you maintain your temper? You realize that you're in a, you're in a strategic situation

where you're just going to win strategically. You're going to outsmart. You're going to outmaneuver. You're going to out manipulate. I'm sorry. You're going to manipulate the situation. That's what you're going to do. And you're going to make her think, you know what? Man, I was kind of a jerk last night to my wonderful husband.

Yeah. That's what we want to happen. Yeah, you got to do it in this genuine way. Of course you got to be genuine. You come off real genuine and open and warm. No one wants to attack you when you're in that state, you know? So that's what you do. You need to meet my wife, boy.

No, I'm telling you, maybe if you switch all of a sudden and she's like, it is the trick. But if you're like, if you put it on, you know, and you're like, you're just disarming them. Right.

Yes, exactly. You disarm them. But man, it's hard to do when you lose your temper. I answered a question the other day. I was out of an event

and I answered a question. I was like, listen, do not take marriage advice from me. Because the question will, it's a long story, but the question was about, you know,

how do you do your job when you have all this pressure and how do you maintain your family? And I kind of went through the story of like, hey, you know, my family came

second. And that's really hard for people to understand. And I went through the whole thing. And I got to the end and I said, listen, don't take marriage advice for me. And everyone kind of laughed. But in a situation like this, actually take marriage advice for me. Right. Yeah.

Don't attack defended positions. I've said that 47 times right now. Yeah. And it's not to say that you've never attacked defended position. I don't know if you ever have it with your wife. But I'm just saying that sounds like. good objective advice. Yeah.

I don't, I probably haven't done that in so long. It's like, it's like when we got asked on the podcast, when was the, we got asked this on the podcast, when is the last time that you were dug in on a, on a position and how did you admit that you were wrong?

And I was like, oh man, I haven't been dug in on a position in years. I don't even remember. Yeah. So it's the same thing here. When do I attack my wife in a defended position, something that she's super crazy and passionate about?

I'm not going near that thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the losing your temper thing too, man. I mentioned this before, where I'd learned about just getting mad in general from this book called Mind Games. It was a teeny tiny little book.

One chapter was not even one page. That could be your first review on the podcast. You can be the reviewer. We can do mind games. Some of them were like puzzles, you know, to see how your mind works. Anyway, but what it did was indicate that... Was there Plinko involved in these puzzles?

No, right. That's prices right. anyway, what it indicated was that losing your temper or having anger issues, anger management issues, was, it was a result of low self-esteem. So,

and you're like, I don't have those. Exactly, right. And that's how I always felt when, you know, in like elementary school, intermediate school, when they talk about self-esteem or whatever,

and low self-esteem, high self-esteem, I'd be like, man, that's so embarrassing to have low self-esteem. It was almost like a pride thing, you know, where I would, even if I really felt like doing something or whatever,

if it indicated overtly that I had a low self-esteem if I did I wouldn't do it It was like really Do you think that paranoia was caused by a low self-esteem In a way it probably goes So it's like the you know Let's be old switcheroo there

But so now I took that like Times 2 Where it said look Everyone gets angry It's a natural part of life But if you have anger management issues It is most likely from Low Self-esteem

So I took that as if I ever get angry That's low self-esteem So man, now I'd be on my mind every single time Where any time I felt myself getting mad to be like nope And I don't low self-esteem So what that did though is train me endeavor to lose my temper Even if I felt like that way back I think I was always laid back but but anyway it's

I think that's kind of a thing to check though You know where yeah you're losing your temper all the time It's like man what's what's up with you for sure Don't lose your temper that's yeah for sure Hey you know that splinter analogy I gave Oh, man. Bro, I'm telling you. Okay, so this one time, and it wasn't me, it was Jake.

He had a splinter. We were young. He had a splinter in his hand. We were like young, young, like five. I know this because we're living in the specific house that I remember. Anyway. You need to tell us about the house. Anyway, he had a splinter and it was deep.

So my mom was like, hey, we got to get it out. We got to use like a tweezers or something. He's like, no, no, no. And he put up this full on, what do you call it? Like a pardon defense. We're not getting that splinter out because, he's crying, he's scared, you know, all this stuff. So what my mom did was, all right, you know, let's, don't take out the splinter.

What he did, what she did was wait for him to go to sleep. She knew you just take out the splinter, it may or may not hurt for like a second, but it's out. Waited for him to go sleep, like a little nap. She goes in there gently and just takes it out. Boom, problem solved. Splinter out. So basically Mama Charles. Flanked him.

She flanked him. Totally flanked him, man. Good job, mom. props to props to Mama Charles next question yes please good Lord

how do you balance loyalty to your workmates and a personal sense of honor with self interest when it comes to a career progression so this question is is

has is giving the impression that that being loyal to your bros and being loyal to your workmates and and having pride is the opposite of career progression, which is actually, I understand where that is coming from, but it actually does not have to be true. It does not have to be the way you think.

The way you get around this is, number one, you work hard. That's what you do you work hard, and you do a good job, not for promotion, not for self-interest, but to help the team accomplish the goal. That's what you should be working hard for. That's what you should be doing a good job for. And this is something I've said a bunch of times over the years. I don't know if I've ever said it on the podcast before, but I should tell my guys,

because we'd be in some long-term administrative psychological warfare in our community, in the SEAL teams or in our organization. And I'd say, look, if we're doing the right thing for the right reason, we're going to win in the end. And I totally believe that to be true. Now, for instance, I never really cared about rank or being promoted. Now, that being said, I actually did put in an officer package so that I could become an officer. Now, why did I do that?

I didn't do that out of greed or out of hunger for power. I did it because I had worked for a prior enlisted officer, and he made our lives really good because he was a really good leader. And I said, you know what, I'd like to make a bunch of the guys that I know, make 16 guys in a seal platoon, make their lives better. Maybe I can do that. So that's sort of what led me to do it.

I didn't do it out of self-interest and greed. I did it to help my bros. Now, then once I got promoted, once I became an officer, then I just busted my ass to do the best job I could. And again, I was never concerned with being promoted, but in order to do a good job, guess what I did? I built relationships.

I took some hard jobs. I followed the rules. I supported the chain of command. I told the party line. Why did I do those things? It wasn't because I was trying to get promoted. It was because I was trying to do a good job. And the more relationships I had and the more respect I had from the chain of command,

the more power I had to help my guys. It wasn't about power for me. It was about power for the good of the platoon so I could accomplish it. And I knew that I believed in the broad mission that we were doing. I knew that good order and discipline actually makes troops perform better. I knew that. And I knew that by following the rules, by supporting the chain of command, I knew that towing the party, I knew that those things would build trust.

in the chain of command. And I knew that building trust in the chain of command and being viewed positively from up the chain of command meant that I would get more support from the chain of command, which once again would make it easier for my guys to do their job. Because I could get them more gear. I could get them the assets that they needed. I could actually legitimately protest

if something came down the pipe that I didn't agree with. If I didn't have trust and had build a relationship with my senior officers, how could I go back to them and say, hey, I don't think we should be doing this? They don't know me.

They don't trust me. But when you build that trust, then you can have a more open and honest conversations, which again is only done so that my platoon can have an easier life so that they can do their job better

because I believed in the mission. So everything that I was doing, that I was doing to make my platoon have a better go at things. Make my platoon more efficient. Make my platoon more effective on the battlefield. All those things that I was doing, I was doing to make that. And lo and behold, when you're doing those things, when you're busting your ass, when you're trying to make life good for your platoon so that your platoon can more effectively

and efficiently accomplish its mission on the battlefield, well, guess what? those are aligned with a guy that's working hard and is supporting the chain of command. So I would get ranked number one. Why? Not because I was trying to get promoted, not for self-interest. It's because I was trying to do a good job for my boys. So the bottom line is if you care about doing a good job and you're doing things that will help you do a good job. and you're doing things that will help you do a good job, again, not for promotion and not for

recognition, but to truly do a good job, the end result is most likely going to be positive. Now, the caveat to this is, does that mean that you'll be the first person to get promoted? No. Does it mean that you are guaranteed to get promoted? No. Some other guy that Brown knows and took all the credit he didn't deserve and stepped on people's backs to get to the top, he's probably going to get promoted ahead of you. He probably is.

It's okay. It's okay. I will tell you that that will come back to haunt him eventually. Maybe not this year. Maybe not next year. Maybe in five years people are going to see through that eventually. And you, who's doing the right things. for the right reasons,

you will win in the end. Yeah, and we talk about this a lot where if you're doing it just to get the promotion, they're going to see that, man. They're going to smell it on you. Yeah, and not only is the boss going to smell it on you. I talked about that earlier tonight because if you were going to be, if you volunteer,

like if you volunteered to be the Admiral's aide, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then that was a total red flag. Watch out for this guy. Yeah, I see what you're doing. Yeah, you don't want to be that guy. You want to be doing the right things for the right reasons. Yeah.

And that is how, in the long run, you will get the recognition and the promotions and the credit that you deserve. Because why wouldn't you? You're busting your ass to do a great job. You're going to shine eventually. Yeah, man. And if you're focused on doing the best job you can do, that's really the dynamics of promotions anyway.

Or should be ideally, you know, from an ideal standpoint. And over time, it will be. Because there is somebody that Brown knows is the boss. That maneuvers to take these little missions or to do things to get the recognition that he's. There's a guy that's doing that. And they can't get promoted. And you've got to accept that and not succumb to it, not submit to it. Because you don't want to be that guy.

In the long run, the guy that bust his ass that takes cares of his troops, that toes the party line, that does the right things for the right reasons is going to win in the end yeah you got to believe in yeah man you know guys do that in jiu jitzy right sometimes oh we talk about that too where they have they have the wrong mindset they just want that purple belt or that brown belt whatever yeah they want the next belt um or i want to tap that guy or i want to tap this guy yeah those are the wrong reasons yeah folks yeah and if you notice the guys who who are just in it to be the best that they can be you see them asking questions or going over some stuff you know on their own kind of thing where they just want to learn as much as they can and get good at as much as they can

and in the long run those are going to be the guys that shine yeah and man i and i think man i think that's it's such a huge deal and it goes for jiu jitsu or even at work or whatever if man if you're the guy who they can see what you're doing and you're kissing ass or or like the guy okay this is one of the most embarrassing things you can do in my opinion in jiu jutsu is after a promotion, you didn't get promoted and then you're overtly unhappy about it. And don't go one step further

and say something about oh, I tap that guy all the time and he got his belt. Ooh, don't ever do it. Don't do it. Yeah. Don't say it. Don't do it. Yeah. That doesn't bode well. I don't think you could ever really live that down. It's just unnecessary. It just shows, hey guys, look at me. I'm focused on the wrong thing. I'm focused on like wearing a belt

rather than my skill, you know? I'd rather get a belt and maybe not have the skill. I'd rather that than have the skill and maybe not have the belt right now. That's what you're saying. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The reality is any good Jiu-Jitsu guy would rather have the skill and not have the belt.

Right now, by the way. Not have the belt right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you have the skill, you'll get the belt. You know, that's just part of the system. And you know what? It could be a long time. Yeah.

And you know what? That's okay. Oh, unless you quit, then you won't have the belt. Oh, yeah, then you won't have the belt. But you've got to also accept the fact that some guy's going to get promoted ahead of you. Good. Good. Good thing you, good, you tapped them before. Yeah, good.

That's perfect. Keep that up. Yeah. We're going to get you that belt. Yeah, stop whining. I heard of a guy who left the gym. Yeah. Our gym.

Because he didn't get a belt. He was like, oh, I'm just going to go somewhere else. That's too bad. I just heard it. It was a story. I wasn't there enough. Anyway, next question.

Unless we have more on that one. No, we're good. Good. Dead horse has been beaten. Yeah, don't be that guy, man. Chaco, on team building, when leading a team, do you feel that there's any benefit

to team building exercises or retreats? Well, this is a interesting question. that actually I feel I'm fairly qualified to answer because we, Laif and I, we have a little business called Ashlawn Front

where that's, we work with a lot of different companies on a different, a wide range of different categories. Sometimes we go in and work with a business. Sometimes we're going and we'll do a keynote speech for a business. Like they'll be having a big meeting

and we'll go in and do one keynote speech for an hour and we leave and we're done. But most of the time, we're doing more long-range stuff where we spend time with the company we go in. But oftentimes we do do some kind of situation where their company has decided to do some kind of a leadership off-site or a team-building exercise or a leadership retreat. And we mostly get involved with the leadership, although that does sometimes trickle down to where we'll do some work with all the frontline troops. So we constantly see these leadership offsights and we speak and or lead them. Sometimes we run the whole thing.

And there are definitely some outstanding events. And we've been participated in and led some outstanding events with companies. And I think one of the most important things about these off sites is it forces the leadership team to detach from the day-to-day firefights of what the business is. No matter what the, there's no businesses where the CEO and the C-suite are like sitting around not doing anything. Those, those companies don't exist, at least that I've seen. Those, you know, you're trying to expand. You're trying to grow. You've got competitors making moves.

So you're in the fight. And then you've got operational things that are happening. So you're in the fight. So when you do these leadership off-sites, it's good that you get them to focus on some other development and some whatever issues they're having in areas where they can improve. So it gives them the opportunity to focus on those things. It also gives them the opportunity to self-assess as a team, how they're doing, and themselves, as leaders, how they're doing. And when I talk to people about leadership and teamwork and the shortfalls and the pitfalls that exist, and then when they hear me talk about it, they recognize their own weaknesses.

Every time I get done, they go, man, when you're... you were talking about you know when you were talking about ego sometimes I think I let my ego get away or when you were talking about cover and move man I don't think I or when you're talking about ownership they they see areas of their own weaknesses and they see where they can improve and then when you get the whole team that's all learning that same information they're all doing that same self-assessment and then the whole leadership team gets aligned behind the same leadership principles of ownership and humility and cover and move and simple decentralized command and all those things that I talk about that is extremely powerful it is extremely powerful and we see

really drastic turnarounds with the companies that we work with and it's awesome it's awesome to see and then one one thing that we do when we work more in depth with a company we do our own leadership off-sites where we do simulated combat. And I know it sounds, it sounds, if I wouldn't have done it so many times, I would be surprised that it's possible. But we take either paint guns, paintball guns, or airsoft guns, and we teach them the basic shooting principles, and we teach them some basic small unit tactics. And then we go and perform missions, we have them perform missions.

And every time they got eight guys, they got 10 guys, they got 12 guys, girls, whatever in their group, and they go an assault a target. They come up with a plan, they go out, we put one person in charge, and that person has to lead a mission. And what they theorized in the classroom, they now get to put to the test. And they learn those lessons very, very clearly. You know, we'd see a guy that would be a really strong leader,

and he would say, okay, I'm in charge this run, here's what I'm going to do. Here's the way the plants are going to go down. You're going to do this, you're going to do this, you're going to do this. You see that micromanagement start? And then as soon as they start the operation, everyone is expecting to get micromanaged. So no one's thinking on their own. So now you get a decentralized, a lack of decentralized command, and everything goes sideways,

and nobody does anything because it's all being waiting to be told what to do. So that's an example of the kind of things that people learn. So with all that, yes, absolutely. We, you know, I've been to and we run some some pretty awesome team building exercises and retreats and leadership off-sites that are, that are great. And we've seen awesome results from them all. I've also sat through some off-sites that are not that effective. You know, you get situations where people don't open up or there's no exchange.

Or you get these team-building exercises that some people set up, and there's some kind of physical or mental challenge. And while they might be hard and they might take some teamwork to perform, they don't break the paradigm that the company is in. So they'll end up leading through that challenge, whatever it is, whether it's some kind of a physical training or some kind of a boat race or something like that, they'll lead through that challenge,

the way they always lead, the way they currently lead. So nothing has learned and nothing is gained. and no leadership advancement has been made. And all they've done is actually, all they've actually done is reinforce the bad leadership situation that they already have. So that's one of the things that I've seen that can be problematic.

And that's why we've gone in the direction that we go where we really focus on let's do, let's look at leadership and the team working together, what the leadership dynamics are, what our weaknesses are, what we see, where we uncover the friction, where we see the team not working well together, where we see the leaders not stepping up and leading,

where we see the leader's egos get in the way. I mean, there's so many things that we uncover and find. It's phenomenal, and it really does make it fun for us. Yeah. You know, because every time you see a new leadership team, it's like diagnosing a patient. And you look at the problems that they're having. They say, oh, well, you know what?

Try this over here. take this off a little bit and the next thing you know you've got that patient up and running and they're winning or like a mechanic he grabs the car right

yeah some of those leadership or not leadership necessarily but these team building retreats too sometimes it seems like whoever organized them really wasn't focusing on results

they were just focusing on our annual you know retreat so they make it in like the Bahamas and all these you know these activities are like kind of fun You know, then every once in a while have an administrative thing or something.

Yeah, and fun can be part of it. You know, there's bonding that happens. There's getting to know each other, and that's always positive. But if you're, I'm all about having fun. I'm all about bonding, but I'm even more about learning. Right.

I'm even more about improving the guys, the people we work with, the guys and girls that we work with, I want them to be better leaders. Right. That's what I want. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And so, yeah, sure, do I want them to get some team challenges?

Yes, but like I said, I don't want that just reinforce the paradigm that they're already in, the leadership paradigm that they're already in. I want them to improve. So let's actually break down and look and analyze and diagnose what the issues are, and then let's solve them. And, you know, it's not always, it's not always that these teams go in, And they're, you know, we don't get hired by companies that are failing. In fact, most of the time, we get hired by companies that are doing well that want to do better.

So when I say we diagnose, diagnose what the problem is, it's not a problem where it's causing the company to failure. But it's a friction point where it is holding the company back from really reaching the best next level and going from being a really good company or even an outstanding company to. to the best in class company. Gotcha. So it's like a multivitamin, not a painkiller. Yes. There you go. That's not mine.

I read that somewhere. You know the micromanaging thing? Yes. And that's, it's funny because you're the first person that I've heard say that this, where you said they'll start micromanaging, and then all of a sudden the people getting micromanaged expect to get micromanage, so they stop thinking, right?

100%. So, yeah. Man, that happens all that. And it goes the other way, too. If you come to me and you say, hey, Jocco, how do you want me to do this? And I go, figure it out. And you say, hey, boss, can you show me how to do this? And I say, figure it out.

When we get in the field, you're going to know that I expect you to figure it out. Right. Yeah, man. Like when I drive with my wife, she'll start micromanaging, like, how I drive, like, get in this lane. Or, you know, just, you're going too slow or too fast, too fast, whatever. Too slow typically. Yeah. But here's the thing.

I'm not going to lose my temper. You know, I don't think. Yeah, front seat in her case. But yeah, man, for sure. And I'm not going to lose my temper. I'd be like, okay, but that's what I do. I shut down my brain. And then so one time Jade was writing with us and he was,

no, he was actually, I was micromanaging Jade. And he put it in these good terms, which I thought were good. He said either be the navigator 100% because he stopped thinking, you know, or don't be it at all. You can't just start chiming in when you think I'm going too slow. Otherwise, yeah, I don't want to, if Sarah's yelling at me, hey, you're going too slow, I'm going to be like, okay, how fast you want me to go? I'll go that fast.

So if you're navigating on the map, you're going to have to tell me every turn to make. Don't say, hey, you're going to make this right, and then I make the right, then you just sign off, you know? Because you're anticipating the micromanagement. Exactly, right, man. And I think it kind of goes automatically, you know. You got to put in a lot of mental work. If you knew that Sarah never said anything to you when you got in the car? All me.

You'd know that you had to have the route prepped before you got in the vehicle. Well, we might go a little bit too slow, but still, man, it's all me as far as thinking goes. Yeah, man, don't micromanage. Or when you micromanage, don't expect them to just all of a sudden start making, you know, creative decisions. It's just hard. It's hard for it to work that way, man. All right. Next question.

This is the last one. Jocco. could you tell us any possible regrets or things you'd done differently something you'd wished you'd learn sooner? Regrets

things I could have done differently things I wish I learned sooner. Of course there are things I wish I learned sooner. There's there's so much knowledge out there, so much information so many ways to get

better and we make we make so many mistakes we're the we're the product of our mistakes and oftentimes the lesson is sitting there right in front of our face it's there to be learned but we miss it or we don't pay attention to it or we think we know better until it punches us in the face and the most important thing to learn is that we have so much to learn. We all do. And we can learn from school and from people and from experience and we learn from life. But you have to process the information. You have to absorb it.

You have to accept it. You have to open your mind. You've got to free your mind so that you can learn. and make real progress. And as far as regrets and things I wish I would have done differently, of course. Hindsight is 2020. And looking back, of course, who wouldn't want to take another go at something and improve on the first try by doing it again?

and then why not do it again and again and again and why not just do it over and over again until you have it perfect but the fact is you don't get that chance you get one shot one shot at this gig right here life one life that's all you've got and regret in and of itself it's worthless it does nothing for you in fact the only valuable thing in regret is the lesson you learned the knowledge that you gained but walking around filled with regret gets you nothing so learn and move on don't let regret be changed you down don't be a slave to regret no let it teach you let it make you better let the fear of regret fuel you to take action today now to take action now to become a better person not filled

with regret but filled with knowledge filled with knowledge and strength and power and filled with life. And I think that's all I've got for tonight. No regrets, only knowledge. And that's what we are striving for on this podcast to gain knowledge so we can improve ourselves and live better lives. Echo, can you just go ahead and drop some knowledge on us right now about how we can support this podcast, Chiboha?

And or improve your life. Have a better life. One way is to supplement your workouts and your brain with On It supplements. Alpha Brain. Shroom Tech is a good one. Warrior bars. Krill oil. Krill oil. Big fan right here. Yeah, it's a big one. On it.

dot com slash jaco you get 10% off boom improve your budget as well um and if you want to support the podcast uh before shopping on amazon dot com before you do that shopping um go to jaco podcast.com or jocco store dot com click on the amazon link that's pretty cool yes you're buying it anyways i know you love amazon because i love amazon because it is a squared away system it is that delivers things to your home in hours or days. Yeah. And all you got to do if you want to help us out is you just got to go there, go there. Just go to our site first, click on it, and then boom, they're not taking more money from you.

They're taking their money and giving it. They're taking their money and giving it to support the Jocko podcast, which is pretty impressive. So that's much appreciated. Yeah. So if you're buying some duct tape or some, the key, the challenge is remembering to go. Oh, right to jaco podcast.com. Why do you always say duct tape? Do you get a lot of duct tape from Amazon?

No, I've gotten, yeah. You always say if you need duct tape, man, go to Amazon. Well, I said it once and it kind of stuck. Duck tape. Get it? Anyway, no, I used to watch McGiver. Actually, I still watch Montgomery all the time. That was his thing, man.

Duck tape. Yeah. Don't go anywhere without it. In the military, we call it rigors tape. Yeah. And some people call it 120 mile one. hour tape, but I never called it that one time. Yeah. But we called a rigors tape.

Yeah. Yeah. I got some black rigors tape. Nonetheless, if you're getting some or anything on Amazon.com, just try. If you can, just remember to go to jocco podcast.com first. Click on the Amazon link and boom, automatic supporting podcasts. And we thank you for that. I thank you for that. Jocko thanks for that. And while you're at Jocco store, if you like any of the shirts, go ahead, grab one. or a coffee mug or a sticker. That's a good way to support. This shirt that you're wearing tonight is a little bit new, isn't it?

It's a little new, yes, the newest one. It's all it looks, right there. If you're watching on YouTube. If you're not watching on YouTube, the front of the shirt, it's a black on black shirt. And in black on the front, it says, know the darkness. Actually, ironically, if you're watching on YouTube,

you might not even be able to see know the darkness. and let's say and I mentioned this before this when we made this one there's that added layer where it's dark the shirt is for you it's not to show everyone

oh look at me look at my cool shirt the shirt is for you you know it's there and on the back it's got some madness some darkness it's got some dark

dark dark picture yeah man yeah so but you see you do the shirts right I mean so this must

what did that like we've talked about a lot of stuff why did you why did you go with the darkness. Why did you, why was that important to you? Because that was the main theme. Remember like when you, when you started or when I remember, yeah. Well, okay, when Chaco started,

the main theme and still is the main theme where he goes into all these dark books and concepts. And then every time, like even Tim Kennedy when we asked him, oh, or one of the questions was like, hey, how do you, you know, reconcile, you know, being happy or anything that when you've seen so much darkness and it actually intensifies your happiness because you can recognize the good stuff. So know the darkness so you can see the light. That's kind of the phrase there, right? So you can appreciate good things way more when you know bad things. And that goes for everything, really.

So you didn't make a shirt that said be happy. The light is with us? Because you could have made that, I guess. Yeah, kind of inconsistent though with the. whole feel, I think. And the bottom line is, if you're surrounded by all the happiness, it starts to fade. Right. Right.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, let's not make a happy shirt. Let's make a dark shirt. Yeah, maybe we can make a happy shirt in the future. But I'm saying, for right now, the darkness. That's what you were feeling. That's what I was feeling.

Yeah. I thought it was appropriate. I thought it was good. I think it came out good, man. I dig it. There you go. Or if you like any other ones, discipline equals freedom. That was a cool one, too, I think.

Or the one with your head on it. Anyway, you can see them whatever. I still haven't seen a live one in the wild. Like, I haven't seen travel. I travel all the time. I haven't seen it. A trooper yet, just representing. Yeah.

I'm so looking forward to it. Yeah, I've seen them here. I never, I've never have taken a selfie, but I think I might do a selfie if I, if I see a person in the wild, a trooper out there, just represent. hardcore in an airport somewhere. Yeah. Coming straight up, we can do some burpees and then you know,

yeah, but you kind of, yeah, I've seen them here. Yeah, in San Diego? Yeah, yeah. But those are our people. We know everybody. Yeah, but I've seen one where I didn't know. Oh, okay. I didn't know that, you know, that, um, like you didn't know that person. No, I knew

him, I know him, but I didn't know like he got a shirt and stuff. I want to be in Indianapolis or I want to be in Philadelphia and walking down the street and see some guy just representing hardcore right there in the street. That'll be awesome. Well, I can attest

that with the online stuff I've seen, the people representing, they are representing hardcore. Yeah. Anything else? No, that's it. If you like it, just grab one if you want. Right on. Well, as always, if you

want to continue this conversation with us, all these questions we answered tonight, They're from you guys. They're from the troopers. They're from you all. So thank you for doing that. We are on the interwebs on Twitter.

Echo Charles is at Echo Charles. And I am at Jocka Willink. We're also on the Facebook and Instagram. If you care. That's where we are. And we're trying to get better. And you can join us there as we seek knowledge together. and get after it.

So until next time, this is Echo and Jocko. Out.