Jocko Podcast - 314: Making Your Part Of The World Better. W/ Carlos Mendez, Navy SEAL (Ret.)

Episode Date: December 29, 2021

0:00:00 - Opening0:02:50 - Carlos Mendez2:39:11 - How to stay on THE PATH.3:17:23 - Closing Gratitude.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocco podcast number 314 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. The machine rolls on. That's what happens. When your time is up and you leave, the machine is going to roll on. And that can be hard on your brain. It can be hard on your ego.

It can also just be hard. because you love the teams, you care about the boys, and when you leave, you worry about the void that is there. And you think, who's gonna fill that void? And you wonder if you did a good enough job passing on what you learned. And that's rough.

That was one of the hardest things for me when I left, when I got out of the Navy. because my whole life, my whole adult life had been in the SEAL teams, I was full on institutionalized by the SEAL teams. I didn't know anything else in the world. And I couldn't help but feel that I was leaving them hanging, leaving my friends hanging, that I was letting them down. But the reality is that the machine rolls on.

And there are guys that are ready to step up and take your place, and takes things to the next level and do a better job and carry the torch and take the fight to the enemy and uphold the traditions and uphold the reputation of the teams and elevate it. And so because this next generation of frogmen step up, the machine rolls on. And I am lucky enough to have one of those frogmen here with me tonight, Carlos Mendez, Los who I figured out checked into SEAL Team 1 about a decade or so after I did

I think but who upheld and uplifted the reputation of the teams while he was in Carlos, thanks for joining us man pleasure to be here what year did you check in a team one 2005

January okay so it was like I checked into team one in 1991. No fun one. It was still no fun when I got there. There you go. Well, we'll get there. Let's go back.

Let's go back to where you came from. Because, damn, I mean, it's a weird ride, right? It's a, you got an interesting background story. So you're not even born. You're not born in America. No. I was born in Guatemala. So, you know, I'll, you know, I'll,

even start before that. So my father passed away when my mom was pregnant with me. Oh, dang. So, yeah, actually she got the news on the day of her baby shower. What did he die from? A car accident. Yeah. So I was born in Guatemala to a single mom, obviously.

And, you know, my grandparents, my dad was their favorite son. So when my mom had me, I was the favorite grandchild. And they had a lot of, they wanted a lot of control over the way she raised me. And it was this conflict back and forth. And, you know, when I talked to my mom, she said, ultimately, that's what drove her to the decision to immigrate to the U.S. She's like, I need to get you away from here because I was spoiled rock. From what I hear, I was an absolute terror. and I can get away with it because grandma was there to protect me.

And yeah, she used to babysit me. My mom would drop me off in the mornings. And it was funny because the things that you remember, just so weird. I remember we would go get gas. And in Guatemala, you know, people don't have a lot of money. So if you filled up a full gas tank, you got a baby chick. Okay. Yeah.

So my mom, you know, filled the gas tank up and we would get a baby chick. So I remember I would drive back to my grandma's house. I would have that baby chick and we had all kinds of them, you know, from all times we filled up the gas thing. So it was me chasing, chasing a bunch of chickens and chicks in the backyard. It's interesting that your mom, she's got to be a pretty interesting human because you would figure here she is single mom and she actually has this kid, you, that is getting swooned over by the grandparents. It seems like a single mom would be like, thank God these grandparents are here to help me through this and I'm totally I'm kind of set now right I got like backup as opposed to no backup

which you know your dad was dead I mean that's but she but she just thought oh he's being spoiled we're out of here oh yeah my mom's a gangster she is a very old school Hispanic um just very you know disciplined uh screw your feelings kind of thing it's always your fault kind of thing Like I remember anytime I got in trouble, she's like, what'd you do? It was your fault. I'm like, everybody else's parents stand up for them. Not my mom. My mom's like, what'd you do?

I know it was your fault. Some way or another, it was your fault. So that's why I was kind of joke around with JP that I had extreme ownership. At birth. Yeah, basically. But yeah, that's what drove her decision to leave Guatemala and come to the U.S. So how old were you when you came to the U.S.? Do you remember?

I guess you must remember because you remember the checks. Yeah, I mean, there's, you know, things here and there that you remember. I was like four or five, but I do remember. I was in school, and I remember showing up to school not being able to speak English. And my mom set me up for total success. And I say that sarcastically because she would dress me up in like a colored shirt. Everything had to be like a color. Because, you know, in Guatemala you dress nice to go to school.

You have uniform. And now we were in San Francisco. Not a nice area either. You know. And so I'm wearing this, you know, button-up shirt with some Docker-type pants. that we got at the Goodwill, shirt had to be tucked in, and like these alligator skin shoes, because in Guatemala, they're cheap, you know, like alligator skin shoes. So that was like the thing. And she's like, you know, Guatemala, these are like a luxury. I'm like, well, over here, it's getting

my ass kicked. Wearing these alligator shoes and dockers and tucked in shirt. So, yeah, I needless to say, I ran into a lot of issues when I first showed up, didn't speak English, and dressing like a complete dork. And, and, you know, the kids that I'm with are a little rough around the edges. What would your mom do for work when she got her? So I remember she worked at, she worked at the school that I was at so she can keep an eye on me as a teacher's assistant. And then after school, I remember she worked as, she would clean houses. And I remember going after school, we would go to, you know, whoever's house and she would clean it and I would do my homework while she cleaned.

and if I didn't have homework, like I would help her out. And then I think like twice a week or so, she would go to English school to learn how to speak English. And I'll go with her there. And are you, but you're getting, what's it, immersion training at school because you're just showing up and they're speaking all English. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's kind of funny because when, so my mom's side of the family

was already in San Francisco, Oakland, Bay Area. So that's why we moved there. She had her. She had her side of the family there. My dad's side of the family was the one that stayed in Guatemala because they're actually pretty well off there. So she had that support system and I thought it was interesting how my family was like, oh, the kids need to learn how to speak English so the kids won't make fun of them.

And my mom was just like, I don't care about his feelings. Like, okay, they make fun of him. So what? He's not allowed to speak English at home because he's going to forget Spanish. He's going to learn English regardless. but I want him to remember how to speak Spanish. So at home I wasn't allowed to speak any English. Your mom is a gangster, huh?

Oh, dude, she's heartless. And then, so then you ended up, she ended up meeting someone else or getting married to someone else, right? Like stepdad showed up, basically. Yep. So she actually met my stepdad in San Francisco in English school. So he was from Czechoslovakia when it was still Czechoslovakia.

Oh, dang. Yeah, and his story is pretty amazing. You know, when he was in high school. So he was there when it was still under communist rule. So when he tells a story, you know, he was in high school and he drew a cartoon criticizing communism. And I guess like a week later, some men showed up. They dragged him out of school. they beat him up and then they told him hey when you graduate we're going to send you to the

minds and you're going to die there you're going to work there for the rest of your life till you die so he was just like nope not happening um he started planning his escape and um didn't tell anybody not a soul packed this stuff in like this green bag that he actually still had when i met him packed everything he had in there and and ran away and um he just recently told me this story to like maybe two, three months ago, like the actual details of how he crawled for days across the border and somehow made it into Yugoslavia. And yeah, it's a pretty crazy story. Yeah, the, when you're in those communist countries, the amount of government informant, like it's some crazy number, like 50% of people are government informants. It's a crazy number.

It's a crazy number. So your stepdad couldn't have told anybody because if you tell one person, you might as well just tell everybody. And you're going to get ratted out. And he's already got the threats of being in the minds for the rest of his life and dying there. Good Lord. Yeah. Freaking savages. Um, so they end up getting married? I mean, is that, that the next phase? Yeah. They, they started dating and, um, in my head, I'm thinking like, oh, sweet, I'm finally going to have a dad, you know, little did I know. He was meaner than my mom. You know, I mean, he's, He's a hard, hard man. I mean, he's, you know, communist block.

They grew up very, very hard up there. Life is hard. So he was hard on me. So what were you doing growing up? What was a day in the life of Carlos? Let's say age 11. Oh, age 11. Oh, by that time we had, I'm not sure.

I don't remember if we had already moved out to Sacramento. At one point, you know, they were like, hey, you know, the barrier is just too expensive. it's not a great place to raise a family. And we moved out to Sacramento. And I remember we started renting this house out that had this huge yard. Well, for me, it was huge because I hadn't seen a backyard, you know, in the San Francisco or Oakland. And he just gave me a ton of chores.

Like, that's what my life. So my life was I come home from school. I do chores. I do homework. And then after we eat dinner, you know, I wash all the dishes. I take everything off the counter, wipe them all down, sweep, mop. Like, that was something that I did. did every single day. And in the backyard, I always had all kinds of chores that he had for me.

And I think a lot of it, too, had to do with, he worked a ton. Like, he is probably the hardest working man I've ever met my life. Like, yeah, he was mean. And probably growing up, I wasn't, you know, I hated him growing up. But now that I'm all grown up and I look back, like, man, that guy worked his ass off. Like, he did anything and everything he could do. Like, I remember he used to sell like vacuums for Electrolux. He used to deliver pizzas for Domino's Pizza. He finally got into ITT Tech to become a drafter. So he became a drafter eventually designing like elevators or something like that. And then I remember he would do that all day. He would come home. He would take a nap and then he would go back and deliver pizzas all night long. Get maybe like two, three hours of

sleep and do it all over again. So, you know, looking back now, I'm like, oh, okay, that's why I had to do so much stuff around the house because he just wasn't around. He was providing for the family. And when you get to, like, what kind of kids are you hanging out with? You playing any sports or anything? No. My mom and, like I said, my mom and dad were both really strict on me.

And the only two things that I was really allowed to do growing up, I remember were Legos and reading. So I would devour any book I can get my hands on because we weren't allowed to watch like TV. Actually, I don't think we owned a TV for a big portion. And then finally, when we did, we weren't allowed to watch a whole lot of it. They had a subscription to Reader's Digest, so I would read Reader's Digest cover to cover. As soon as they came in, I was actually the one that would rip the wrapper open and I would just start reading.

And it's funny because it was actually the first time that I was exposed to the teams. Even though I didn't know it, there was an article in Reader's Digest when I was a kid. And it was something like the hardest school, you know, I don't remember exactly what the time. But it talked about this gentleman who was in the Army, saw some team guys, and went to Buds, and he talked about his experience going through Buds. But at the time, I didn't know what it was. I was just like, oh, cool story. But yeah, Legos, reading.

I wasn't allowed to really play with other kids because my life was like chores and homework. And my parents were both perfectionist. So, you know, I would turn in my homework and if the handwriting was sloppy, they'd do it over. Or like the dishes. Like if I do the dishes and, like, one of them was wrong with myself, I'd be like, do them all over. Dang it. So that's kind of how I remember my childhood. It was a lot of chores, homework,

and then kind of just reading a lot and playing with Legos a lot. Yes, sir. Right. Did you end up, yeah, I think you've mentioned me you had some kind of like little farm or something at some point. Yeah. Or like at least some little animals running around the house. Yeah, so at one point, you know,

we got accepted for this program that was like for low-income families where they allowed you to build your house and it would offset some of the costs. but it would allow, you know, it was like a path to ownership. Yeah, that's legit. And so my parents both applied for it. We got accepted. So for a long time, that was actually a big part of my childhood, too.

For a long time, I remember like going to school and then going to help at the construction site. My weekends, same thing. They were spent at the construction site helping build our house. And when it was completed, you know, my stepdad had all kinds of stuff in the backyard. Like, we had this little farm. So we had he built like when I say he built I mean mostly I built because my weekends were like I remember my weekends like oh I'm going to get to sleep in and I would just hear a bang on my window like at 530 in the morning and it's him like hey get up it's time to work I'm like dang you know so I go out there and we built a greenhouse we had all kinds of fruits and vegetables we had a compost pile so I remember digging that hole he made he wanted it so big and I spent forever I did all our irrigation so I dug all the holes for that. And then he got this idea for, so we had all our fruits and vegetables, but he's like, now we need our meat. So he's like, we're going to, you know, in check, we used to rabbits.

So I remember going to the state farm, like looking at all these different rabbits. And then he's like, oh, these are the kind that you can eat. So we bought like a male rabbit and like two or three females and we started breeding rabbits. Little did I know that was going to be. So that's another chore now that I had like taking care of these rabbits, feeding them, you know, cleaning up their poop. And then when I got the poop, I put it in the compost pile and everything, like all the clippings from the grass and everything we grew with throwing the compost pile. Now I had to get in there and like mix it up and it was miserable. But then the baby rabbits got to age. And he's like, hey, your chore from now on, another chore is going to be like, hey, you're going to kill the rabbits. You're going to skin them and you're going to put them in the freezer. And I'm like, well, I don't know how to kill a rabbit. He's like, you're going to learn today. And he's like, well, let me know. He's like, let me know. He's like, let me know when you. kill that first rabbit, let me know, and I'll show you how to skin it. So I remember being a kid because I'm looking at, I'm like, how old are you at this point? I'm going to say junior high.

Okay. So what's that like 12 or 13, something like this? I'm more around 11 or 12. Okay. Because I remember being young. Because I remember the first one, I'm like, okay, I think I'm going to drown the rabbit, right? So I grab a bucket, I fill it up with water, and I grab this rabbit, and I put it in the bucket, and it freaking won't die. And then I, I, I think I'm going to drown the rabbit. And now I'm crying. I remember crying because I'm like, oh my God, please die. Just die, damn it. And I'm just holding it and just like, finally, you know, the rabbit dies.

And I'm just like, oh my God, that was the most miserable experience ever. I'm like, I'm crying. I'm a kid. And so finally I go back in. I'm like, okay, I killed the rabbit. You know, and he's like, stop crying Fifina. That was his nickname for me. Which Fafina is freaking Czechoslovakian for what?

It's Czechoslovakian for pussy. So, you know, he shows me how to skin the rabbit. And I'm like, okay. And I'm not really paying attention because I feel traumatized. You're traumatized, bro. You freaking raise these rabbits. So now he's like, okay, it's time to kill the second one. And now I'm like, I'm going to do it a different way.

So I'm like, I grab a two by four. I'm like, all right, I'm going to hit this rabbit on the head. So I grab the rabbit. I'm like petting it, you know. And then I hit it, but I kind of half-ass hit it. So now he's just like twirling. in my hands. And now again, I got snot running down my nose, tears. And I'm just like, eating this rabbit again. Like, please damn it, just die. And finally after whacking it,

like a million times died, same thing comes out, teaches me how to, how to skin it. And then on the third rabbit, something happened, you know, something already happened. But something happened that actually stuck with me until today, actually. All right. So I remember I got this rabbit and I'm petting it. And now I'm talking to myself. And I'm like, all right, motherfucker. By the way, this is how serial killers get created. Just that far. I fall on to talk to yourself. So when I told my wife the story, she's like, I get it.

But I'm looking at this rabbit and I'm like, you know, talking myself up. I'm like pumping myself up. I'm like, you know what? I got to commit. Like 100% commit. So I remember I grabbed that rabbit. I grabbed that two by four and I hit it as hard as I could and it was out. And from that point on, it's crazy because even in the teams when I did something that I was a little bit scared of,

of or even in like, you know, anything, I'm like, commit. That thought has always come in my head. Like, if you're scared of doing something, you've got a 100% commit or it's not going to work. And in that moment, I had that epiphany. That's an 11, 12 year old kid. So, yeah, that's my rabbit story. So I, you know, a lot of times people ask me questions about, because I got kids and

parenting and all that stuff. And one thing I warn parents of, you know, if you push hard against your kids, they're going to push back. And by the way, this isn't just with kids. This is with a seal platoon. This is with a company. This is with a business. You start imposing stuff on people. They're going to start to push back because they're humans.

And humans don't like to have things imposed on them. And you can, by the way, you can impose things on people permanently. But you have to like crush them. And you have to continuously crush them forever. And you have to be willing to go to that distance where you crush them, which is not going to produce. the type of humans that you want. So was there any pushback? Or let me rephrase that.

At what age did you start to say I'm pushing back against this stuff? I'm going to say around my sophomore year. You know, I'm 15. And, you know, like I said, my stepdad ruled with an iron fist. And at that point, I'm like, you know what? I'm not scared to you anymore.

Because his punishments were so extreme. Like his punishments were like, oh, you're grinding for the weekend. It was like, you're grounded for the next two months. And if I messed up, it was like another month. And I'm like, dude, there's like no light at the end of this tunnel. Two months when you're a kid. It's a lot.

It's a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, they didn't let me play sports. So I wasn't hanging around the jog. So guess what I hung out with? Hung out with thugs. Hung out with people that, you know, weren't the best influence on me. And I got into some trouble.

You know, and I got, I got locked away. in juvenile hall and and and so how old are you uh 15 16 years old and um i remember when that happened because my my stepdad at this point he had actually just graduated the CHP academy so now he's law enforcement damn yeah he's law enforcement and i'm running around you know little little mini gang banger yeah breaking the law and at one point i got caught i got arrested and i remember the cop bringing me in and interviewing me and I'm just like I don't want to talk because you know I got that stupid mentality I'm not I'm no snitch no I'm a gangster so I don't snitch I don't say anything and he's like hey it's not going to go little day I know everybody else was singing like a

bird so um so it's crazy because I remember going to court so they put me away they called my parents and my parents like leave them there like you don't want to come get your kids like nope leave them there. And I knew. And I even told the cop, I'm like, don't bother calling my parents. They're going to leave me here. He's like, oh, you were right. So anyways, I'm in court.

And, you know, the judge is like, hey, do you want an attorney? And I was like, no, I don't. And he's like, are you sure? Do you know what you're doing? I'm like, yep, I don't need an attorney. I was like. 15 years old are to represent myself in the court of law. Well, I was like, hey, I'm guilty.

I did it. Okay, Chuck. And then he's like, so you plead. I was like, I plead guilty. Like, I'm not even going to fight it. And he's like, check. And I remember seeing my parents and no expression on their face, but I could tell, like, my mom was, was disappointed for me.

Yeah. As they took me away in cuffs and had to do my time in juvenile. How long were you in juvie before? I think a couple months, and that's because they were full. And honestly, like, I was a good respectful. I was a respectful. I was a respectful kid because of the way I was raised. So when I was in juvie, like, you know, the correctional officers were like, you're

like the politest criminal I've ever met. Did you start to see the path that you were going down at that point and realize like maybe this is the way it's going to end up? Yeah, so, you know, having different roommates in juvenile hall kind of opened my eyes. I'm like, man, I don't belong here. Like some of the kids that were in there, like one of my roommates was in there because, you know, he tried to murder this girl with his friends and they were so high off drugs that when they tried to dig the hole to bury the body, they were so high that they buried the whole. like not even a foot deep and they put her in there and just put some dirt. I didn't realize she was still alive. You know, I mean, those are the kind of roommates that I had.

I think at one point they put me in with like a kid who was in there for a hate crime, like a skinhead. It's in there for a hate crime. And, you know, just being there, I'm like, dang, I don't belong here. And I felt terrible that my parents, because I knew my parents had raised me the right way. And I'm like, man, I really let them down here. So that's when I knew. I was like, this is not what I was.

want to do. So. So was that a good? A lot of times people think that, but then, you know, as soon as they get out and they get back around their friends, you know, was that a good enough, like, scared straight situation that you actually were scared straight? I wouldn't say scared straight because now I'm like, okay, I did it. It was fine. In my head, I'm like, I'm hard, you know, like, I go back into juvie.

Now I'm on probation and any little thing is like an automatic 10 days you go back. So when I got out, same thing. It was actually even worse now, you know, and it got to the point where I'm like, hey, you know what? I'm going to do whatever I want, whenever I want, whatever I want, whenever I want. And I would wait for my parents to go to bed and I would just sneak out of the house. So you kind of got emboldened. Oh, because you went in there, you, because it wasn't really a scared straight thing.

It was more like you got emboldened because now you think, hey, dude, I could, juvie wasn't that bad. Yep, exactly. No factor. I'll get out. And so you actually got, you actually. got worse. So I stopped committing crimes, but I was going out.

I just wanted to hang out with my friends, honestly, because it was just so strict. And where I made my mistake is this is around the time where cell phones started coming out. So I would, you know, my parents went to bed early too, and they would put me to bed like at 8 o'clock. I'm a teenager put me to bed at 8 o'clock. But at the time, I'm like, cool.

Put me to bed early, you know, because the earlier you put me in, the earlier I'm leaving. So I would wait for them to go to bed. I would go to the living room. I would grab my dad's cell phone. And then I would roll out. And now I'm the only kid, like, rolling around, like, with a cell phone. I'm like, yeah, let's call so.

And so, let's call so. And so, like, you know, until the cell phone bill came out. I didn't know that because I didn't know how cell phones weren't. Yeah, because back then, this is in the 90s. Oh, yeah. So you get charged per call. Oh, yeah. It wasn't cheap either.

No, it was not. It was like a dollar a minute. Yeah. Or something crazy like that. Yeah. So my dad blew a casket when he saw that bill. And long story short, it was just this. constant back and forth between him and I.

And it got to the point where I told him, I'm like, hey, I'm not scared of you. I'm going to do whatever I want whenever I want. Like, what are you going to do? Beat me. You ground me. I'm already grounded for life. And so at this time, I'm still getting in trouble for smaller things. And my probation officer was like, hey, listen, you're like at the point where we're just

going to put you away to your 18. I was just like, oh, dang. And I had a teacher at the time that I had built a great relationship with. He was like my, it was like a. life skills class. I teach you had like write checks, pay your bills, you know, stuff like that. And him and I had built a good relationship. And I don't know how he got wind of it.

But he knew the judge or whatever. And he was like, hey, you know, he's a good kid. He just, he's got a situation at home where he doesn't get along with his stepdad. And the judge is like, well, if you think he's such a good kid, then you adopt him. And he said, okay. And he adopted me. And at that point, like, I think my stepdad was like at the end of his, you know, His way, he's just like, I can't, I can't handle this kid.

He's like, go. And he signed, he signed away. So are you 16, 17 at this point? 17. Yeah, 17. So you're going to basically, your senior year of high school, you're going to go live with my teacher. Yeah.

So I lived with him and it was a- What was the deal with this teacher? Dude, it's like the coolest teacher ever? I don't know. So he was very religious. Like him and his wife were very religious. They had five kids. They had raised them all to be very like,

successful people, like they were just good people. But in my head, I'm like, what is this guy thinking? Because I wouldn't let some little thug move in with me. But honestly, when I moved in with him, I was so grateful that I told them, I'm like, hey, this is your house, your rules, and I'll follow them. And I didn't give him like a heap of trouble because I was so grateful for what he had done. And he treated me, he treated me like an adult for the first time. You know, he was just like, hey, if you're going to go out, just let me know who you're with, what time you'll be back. And for me, that was like, what? You know, let me go out with my friend.

It was something that I wasn't allowed to do before. So I was so grateful for that. I'm like, dude, this is a great thing. I don't want to mess it up. And you didn't hear a peep from me for the rest of the year. Like, I was on my best behavior with him. Are you getting good grades in school? Yeah.

So actually, that's the funny thing, because I actually did really well in school. Even this whole time. Mm-hmm. And it was funny because I had my professional. probation officer required like a progress report. So that's how he got a wind of it because the teachers would look at me and be like, dude, you're a good kid. You get good grades.

What are you filling this out for? And I'm like, my probation officer. Yeah. They would look at me like, what? Yeah. And so there were a couple teachers actually during that time that had a big influence on me. And one of them's names Bobby Pryor. He's prior Navy vet.

And he talked about Navy Seals too. And he had a big influence on me as well. And I remember him like telling stories about, you know, when he was in the Navy. And he told me this story that stuck with me for a long time about these two seals. They were on the beach and they got in a fight with some biker dudes. And they just got back to back and got after it. And he's like, these bikers were laid out. And he just talked about how badass Navy SEALs were.

But I still didn't make that connection. You know what I mean? The connection being that this is something you could actually do with your life. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. I was just like, oh, that's cool. You know.

So between him and the other teacher that I lived with, they were a big influence on me in a different way. Like my stepdad taught me a lot of things that I'm super grateful, how to be tough, how to be, you know, work ethic. But they,

they had like a softer, more empathetic, uh, mentoring. I think that's a better way. They were more mentoring me. Yeah, I know the,

um, well, here's your dad saying, hey, you can't go out with your friends or sorry, your stepdad saying you can't go out with your friends, et cetera. Your mom's super strict.

And it makes you want to not do what they're telling you to do. Oh, 100%. impose things on you, makes you not want to do it. This other dude says, hey, you do what you want.

Just let me know what you're doing. And you all of a sudden want to follow the rules. It's like such simple psychology on human beings. When you impose things on people, they don't like it. When you give them freedom, they're going to take advantage of it in a positive way. I don't,

here's something interesting. Like I have grown kids now. I have one that's not grown. But my other kids are, you know, uh, how old, 22,

20, 20 and 18 they didn't have curfews like like they I'd just be like oh yep cool oh you know go out this is when they were 13 years old 15 years old I'd say okay you know let me know where you're going sometimes hey you know what when are you gonna be back are you coming back tonight and I just let them do what they want to do and they all turned out they all are fine you know which what I mean you're like stuttering you then they all they all they Well, you know, they're fine.

I mean, they're all good kids. I mean, they're all, actually, they're all good kids. They all, like, you know, are on really good paths in life. And I never, now, if you were to step, there was some incidents that took place along the way, some things that need, some corrective measures need to be imposed from time to time if things got a little bit too far out of line. And that happened a few times.

But then it was like, oh, they'd get back in line and realize. And then I would just give them, kind of give them their freedom back. But you know what one of key things is that you, said is and I tell this to people all the time treat them like adults especially when they're in that age this is this is a trick to there's a little trick to this there's an age where oh you're 14 years old oh you think you can you want to be you want to be an adult okay cool guess what adults have jobs guess what adults do pay bills they pay rent they pay for their cell phone they pay for their food so you want to

be treated like an adult you want to do whatever you're cool I can treat you like an adult you owe rent or you know you need to pay for food and all that stuff and they realize really quick that's a real good appreciation tool they want to make somebody appreciate what they've got make treat them like an adult and and they kind of they're thinking they want to get treated like an adult and then when they start getting treated like adult they go hey I'm cool with being a kid for a little bit longer so what did you do when you graduated from high school then was it straight to the Navy no no I actually no intentions of joining the military so after high school I

I started working construction full-time. And then on the weekends, I worked at Long's Drugs on Saturdays and Sundays. And this was the summer after I graduated. I really didn't know what I wanted to do. And then, you know, those two teachers I told me about, they're like, oh, so, you know, you got to start college. I was like, no one had ever talked to me about college. And I was like, oh, I don't, you know, I wasn't excited about it. So they signed me up for college.

They helped me out. And I started going to community college. And I didn't like it. I was there. and I'm just like, I feel like this is high school all over again. Because you know, you're taking the prerex. You're taking the same stuff. So in my head, I'm like, I'm not learning anything right now that's going to help me in life.

So I dropped out very quickly. I think I was there for like two minutes. And I went back to work in construction because I was making, you know, for an 18 or seven. Actually, I was still 17 because I graduated on 17. I was making good money for, you know, 17, 18 year old. And I would work seven days a week because I loved the fact that the more I worked, the more money I would make. So I'm like, dude, you mean I can work seven days?

week so I did it and it was around that time at Long's drugs they used to have VHS you and still have VHS and we rented out movies and so every Friday night I would go and pick a movie out for myself and that would be my Friday night and one day I picked up the movie Navy Seals with Charlie Sheen and I went home and I watched it and I was just like whoa this is badass and then that's when I this is these are the guys that Mr. Pryor talked to me about and that's where I made that connection and I'm like I'm gonna go be a Navy SEAL and I didn't even know how to swim that well damn yeah I went into the recruiters office I think the next day and you know I told him I was like hey I'm here sign up for the Navy I want to

be a Navy SEAL and of course they'll laugh god you was stoked that recruiter goes oh yeah I was a recruiter's outstanding yeah you look like you'd make a great Navy SEAL exactly oh yeah this guy totally set me up for failure like you know Yeah, so he, you know, I went through the process very quickly because I'm like, hey, I'm committed. Let's do it. You know, and so I take the ASVAP, whatever, and then he gives me the Corman rating. He's like, what do you think about being a Corman? I was like, what's that?

He's like, oh, it's like a medic. When you get out, you're like a registered nurse and you can have a job. I was like, oh, okay, cool. So when I get out, I'll have a skill. So I'll be the medic on the team. So I'm like, yeah, let's do it. So. Were you in the dot?

Did you get some kind of a seal contract? Like how did it? They didn't have that back then. But here's the thing. I didn't know anything. So this recruiter totally me screwed me over. One, I wasn't a citizen.

So you can't be in the teams without being, but you know, this part of it will come into play. Yeah. So, you know, I go off to boot camp. He ships me off under a corpsman contract. So I go to boot camp. Yeah.

So you're, so just so everyone knows, you join the Navy as a regular Navy dude as a corpsman. And that, that gives you no. leverage whatsoever to try and get to buds. I mean, very little leverage. What year is this, you figure?

1999. And by the way, I barely got into the Navy because I had felonies on my record. So I had to get like multiple waivers. And back then, you know, being the military wasn't cool. So they were like, all right. You know, because I tell my son now, I'm like, listen, he knows I got in trouble with the kid. I'm like, listen, you can't do that nowadays.

No. I mean, you got to have secret clearances. You got to do this. I mean, you do. Yeah. It's totally. They're way more. collective now. Oh yeah. In every branch and for seals for sure it's because there's so many kids

that want to go into it. Yeah. They can pick and choose. Exactly. Yeah. So, so I go to boot camp and they have the video, you know, with all the cool stuff and then I'm like, this is it. And like, who wants to try out? And I raise my hand. I'm like, heck yeah, this is it. But the problem is I didn't know how to swim very much. So we take the screener. Dude. We take the screen. And I can get from one end of the pool to the other.

But I am not what you would call a good swim. Like I never took, you know, swimming classes. Like I could do this. Right. Like kind of doggie my way over. And I wasn't scared of the water. It just, I just wasn't good. And I failed it the first time around.

I was like, dang, dude, what am I going to do? You know, now I'm really stressing because now I'm like, damn, I'm going to go to the regular Navy. And I was really, really scared of the regular. I was like, I don't want to get stuck on a ship. And so. they're like, my RDC really, really liked me. You know, I was her yeoman.

So I had a lot of freedom. You know, the yeoman, like, takes all the paper. So you have actually a lot of freedom in boot camp to walk around because I would deliver all the, all the stuff. Where'd you go to boot camp? Great Lakes. Yeah. So she was like, hey, I'll let you try out one more time.

I was like, oh, no. So I go. And by the way, everyone in their mother's trying out. So there's like 50 people in the pool. So I'm swimming and I'm listening to the times. And I'm like, oh, my God. I'm not going to make it again. Again.

So I just stood up at one point. I was like, I'm done. And they're like, okay, get out and get ready for pushups and pull ups. I was like, oh, shit, that worked. So I got out. So you just cut a lap off your time. Oh, I'm going to say, cut like two. I'm going to say it was like at least two.

I was nowhere near finishing. And but there's so many kids in the pool. Did you do any work? Like, had you worked out at all? So I was very athletic. Yeah. But you didn't play sports. So I played sports in high school.

Oh, okay. Yeah. We didn't cover that. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. The coaches. So I played, you know, in PE, I would play football, basketball, anything. And I would catch on to it very quickly.

Like, coaches were always hitting my mom up. Did you play any sports for the school? No, I wasn't allowed to. So it was just PE. Yeah. And that's why the coaches, because the coaches are usually the PE teachers. So they call my mom and they're like, hey, like, your son really needs to play football. I really needs to that.

Because I was really athletic. I was fast. And I was functionally strong because I did so many chores that I was a pretty strong kid. you know, for my age. So I was athletic. I could do push-ups all day, pull-ups all day. You know, I could run. I just couldn't swim.

So when I got out, you know, I crushed the pull-ups and push-ups and everything else. And so I'm going through the process. And then the dive motivator is like, hey, just so you know, cormant are not, it's not a seal rating. It was the only year that they did it where for whatever reason, they were like, if you want to be a corpsman with the teams, you've got to go to the Marines first. So I was like, I don't want to do that.

So I went to the office and I changed my rating to like a boatsman's mate. Damn. And then I go back and I'm like, hey, you know, I'm a seal rating now. He's like, cool, now we can get you in. And then as he's doing my paperwork, he's like, you're not a citizen. You can't go. I'm like, dang it. So I go back.

I change it back to a corpsman because I know what a boatsman's mate is. So I go back. I change it back to a corpsman. And, you know, they're like, hey, sorry, man. We really liked you. but you've got to get your citizenship first. So from there, I went to core school. And then from core school,

you ended up with the Marines, right? Yeah, yep. So about the majority of the corpsmen, especially if you're male, you're going to go to the Marines. So they sent me to a school called FMSS, where they basically teach you how to be a Marine. You know, they teach you like Marine Corps, like ranks, etiquette, whatever. And then at one point, they asked you if you want to go Marine Corps regs,

which is basically you've got to cut your hair like them. do you get like to wear their their green uniform I forget what they're called and they're and like everybody was like supermodo and they're like yeah I want to be Marine Corps regs and then they're like what about you Mendez do you want to be Marine Corps regs and I was like no and like but you get a uniform you get to wear the Marine Corps uniform I'm like I got enough uniforms because before you had to always carry them around in your C bag and you had inspections all the time I'm like I don't want another uniform and it was right around that time where I met the recon corpsman that was there. I mean, you just looked at him. He just looked like a stud. So I immediately gravitated

towards him. And then he's like, hey, just so you know, we're going to have tryouts if you want to be a reconcorman. At the time, they were like 40% manned. They're like, we're really hurting. We could really use people. So I go and I try out. And I fail to swim again. But, you know, he's like, hey, man, get out, do the rest of it. And that screener was actually legit. Like, it was tough. Like it was a ruck run. It was like poolups, pushups. It was like the Marine Corps PFT. And then it was like all these different calisthenics with with no number. You just did it for time. And they had a number that they wouldn't tell you. So like, hey, you got to do this amount of mountain climbers. And they wouldn't tell you what it is. It was like a day long screener. And I passed everything else.

Like I crushed everything else. And he was like, hey, I'll tell you what. He's like, you have until the end of FMSS to pass a swim. He's like, you're obviously, you know, athletic. You have the physical abilities to do, you just can't swim. So I'm like, okay, perfect. And at one point, I remember going in his office and doing like the dive physical and getting my chest x-string and whatnot. Somehow through conversation, I was like, yeah, I want to go to buds. He's like, you want to do what?

He's like, I was like, I want to go to buds eventually. Like, I'm just kind of doing this, you know, my time with the Marines until I could get the buds. And he grabs my paperwork. He like, crumbles it up. He's like, you will never be a reconcormon. And he chucked my stuff in the garbage. he's like, get out of my office.

That was it. And I was like, oh, snap. Yeah. So then I got orders to 2-4, which is a grunt battalion there in Camp Pendleton. And as soon as I get there, I'm like really regretting it. I'm like, dang, what did I do? You know, maybe I should have just kept my mouth shut and just gone with it. And as soon as I get there.

That's usually good advice. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, right. And so as soon as I get to 2-4, they're already like, hey, we're getting ready. I didn't deploy. So I basically, I didn't do a workup or anything. I basically just, I think I was home for maybe a month. And then we deployed to Japan, my first deployment.

And what are you doing? What did you do on deployment? Would you exercise this and stuff? So I was like the coverage corpsman and, you know, my chief knew that I wanted to go to Bud, so he would attach me to like the amphibious assault platoon or whatever, like where they did all the boat stuff and OTB stuff. So I did that. It was like their corpsman, basically, if anybody got hurt.

I was the Corman coverage for that. But during that deployment, that's where I, like, got really serious about learning how to swim. And I was in the pool every chance I could get. Like, if I had the time, I would go in the mornings, I would go at lunch. And that's why I – oh, because there was a guy that I met that had dropped out of buds. And I told them, I was like, do you know how to do the combat side stroke? He's like, yeah, I was like, teach me. So he taught me, and that's where I got proficient at swimming was during that deployment.

This is still pre-9-11. Oh, yeah. So it's just all kind of, yeah, just going on training missions and big exercises. And so that's a normal six-month deployment you go on with the Marines? Yeah, pretty uneventful. Get done with that. And what happens to come home from that? So I come home and then we get a new chief and we start talking.

And then he's like, hey, have you ever thought about going recon? I was like, uh, I was like, yeah, I've thought about it, you know, but I want to go to buds or whatever. He's like, hey, why don't you have the conversation with this recon chief? And so the recon chief and I start talking. And then he's like, he's like, hey, we have a guy here who's not really working out. And we want to see if you want to come over here. And I told him, I'm like, hey, I want to be honest with you. Like, my goal is to go to Buds.

He's like, hey, listen, no problem. He's like, why don't you come over here? See if you like it. If you like it, stay. If not, I'll send you to Buds. And I was like, okay. And then he's like, he's like, if you come over here, I'll give you BAH. which has an

damn what's B.H basic allowance for housing but it's legit money no it could be like 1,200 bucks a month and when you're what were you for you? You're in E4

you're sort of like maybe almost doubling your paycheck not quite maybe like 50% of your pay you're gonna make extra it's a big deal getting that BAH that's why dudes get married by the way

that's why you see 18 year old Marines are like yep getting married. Why are you getting married? Oh, you met the woman of your dreams? No, but I'm going to get BAAB, BAA, son. They want that BAH. Yeah. So it's a big deal, especially in the Marines, because in the Marines, the barracks had to be like 95% man and you had to be like an E5 or above. And so I'm an E4 and he's like B.H and some magic words. I'm like, let's do it. So I headed over there and I see the guy that I'm supposed to replace and the guy looks like Superman. I mean, he's super tall, just jacked.

And I'm like, I'm replacing this guy. And then, you know, I kind of, like, I could tell that the LPO there kind of saw, I was like, oh, dang, you know, this guy. And then he's like, yeah, he looks like Superman, right? And I was like, yeah, he does. He's like, you know what's his kryptonite? Water. Ooh.

And I guess he would freak out during the water evolution. Because they had him like tread water with, but they do a lot of stuff over there with water. And I guess he would just like freak out. So I'm like, okay, cool. So that's how I ended up there They put me right into My first introduction to them

Was an SR So they were like Hey you're going to do an OTPSR At Pendleton? Yeah, Pendleton I'd just been there I'd just gotten there And there was a Corman there

Who had at the Recombatine Who had orders to go to Buds So they were like Hey can you take Carlos under your wing Kind of show them how to pack out for an OTBSR And by the way I've never swam in the ocean before So now I'm about to, you know, at night, get dropped off, swim through the surf zone.

Yeah. With a recon load out. Oh, yeah. Which is no joke. Enormous. So he's like teaching me how to like load my stuff out. And then I'm like, hey, what about like warm weather stuff? He's like, this is recon, bro.

And then by the way, this is wintertime. And then he's like, this is recon, bro. Like we don't take that stuff. And I'm like, okay, you know, it's like, check. He's like, we take batteries and this. And he's like, I'm like, okay, got it. And then I'm like, hey, question, how am I getting this rug through the surf? Because it's Abby, he's like, oh, you can put flotation on it.

I put a ton of flotation on it because I'm like, do I'm going to drown. So we go and we do the SR. I make it through the surf zone, just sheer will. But I mean, I must have swallowed like a gallon of water going through the service. That was my first time ever. But, you know, I'm trying not to be the weak link. Fifi. What is it?

Fifina. Yeah. I'm trying not to be a Fifina. So we make it through. And, you know, we change out. We start patrolling. And then we get to the place where we're going to set up camp. And then everybody starts busting out their warmies.

Yeah, they were. And I look around. And I'm like, damn it. And they're like, hey, what's up, Doc? Like, where's your stuff? And I'm like, where are we gone? I was like, I thought that we didn't bring warmies out. And they're like, no way, bro.

Like, we bring a ton of warmies out. And I'm just like, oh. And I'm freezing. cold. Yeah, yeah. Because it's wintertime out in Camp Pendleton. We just went through the surf, so I'm still wet. And finally, I'm just like, you know what?

I'm going to volunteer to just watch the radio all night. I was like, there's no way I'm sleeping tonight. And so I did. I just jackhammered all night long, watched the radio, and we'd get up and walk around just to try to keep myself warm. And the Marines loved it, you know, because I volunteered to do watch all night long for the rest of this. But that was my introduction.

I was, when I got to the teams, I was a new guy, didn't have my bird yet. And I got sent to a conference. school out on the East Coast that was run by by the teams and I was a new guy and my but my swim buddy was a new guy two of us and we we there was a like a six day five or six day FtX that you went on at the end of this com school's a two-month comm school is freaking legit it was a great course and the chief that was running it you know I was like asking him questions because I was wanting to know what would be a good thing to bring when we're in the field and I said hey you know you know

know, or guy, you know, should I bring like a sleeping bag? Should I? And he goes, if you're hardcore willing, because, you know, I was always trying to be hardcore. He's like, if you're hardcore willing, he was bringing a poncho on a poncho liner. And I was like, well, check, I am fucking hardcore. Yeah. And I'm just bringing on a poncho on a poncho liner.

And I did. And that's what I went out in the field with. And as we inserted the first night, it was raining as we inserted. It turned to sleet, like as the vehicles pulled up to drop us off. And then it turned into snow. It was balls cold, balls cold. and on this course you had like a comms window every every two to four hours you'd have to make comms to some different part of the country and most guys would like miss com windows and that would be

you're getting graded the whole time and if you had the best grade at the end then you'd get extracted early and so we meet my swim buddy same thing like we were we were trying to be hardcore so we didn't have warmies for shit we freezing and we never missed a calm window and the reason we never missed a combo note is because we couldn't we can sleep it was just just like freezing but yeah that's um always bring a ground pad and always bring a bivisack because that's what i learned eventually the bivisack is the deal if you got a bivisack you can climb in there and you can pretty much just gut through some serious shit yeah yeah but um yeah that's good that's the way that's what that's what happens to the new guys yeah don't believe when your chief says you we don't bring warmies he's full

shit. Yeah. Well, actually, the recon corpsmen that were there, they were cool about it because they were like, hey, we heard what happened. Like, dude, I'm not going to say the guy's name. He's like, he totally hooked you up. I'm like, yeah, he did. So at that point, they put me into Rip, which is the reconnoctrination platoon. So basically it's you competing for a slot at their, at BRC, which is like their selection process. And that's the one that's, is it still in Coronado? It's in Camp Pendleton. So Rip is in Camp Pendleton. What's the one that used there used to be something in Corrano? That's BRC. Got it. So in RIP, they put everybody in there who just showed up to the talent and you're, because there's only 30 slots. So you're competing. So the top 30 guys go to BRC. If you didn't make that cut, you go through it again.

And hopefully you make it through the, you know, you're in the top 30. How long is RIP? So there's no like real timeline to it. I think it was just like, hey, you're just doing it until the next class of BRC shows up. And then they start ranking you and then you get your, your slot. And so, you know, the Cormon were like, Like, hey, just so you know, like, you know, Marines are always harder on the corpsmen. Don't let us down.

And so I go to Rip and I'm doing well on everything except for Landnav. I can't freaking Landnav to save my life, dude. I was just getting lost and I was really getting down on myself. And then one day it just clicked. Like I looked at the map and I'm just like, oh. It came to life. I get it. Yeah, I don't know.

It was just like this moment, like a light bulb moment. And from that point on, like I was like, landnav got it. So I was able to secure a spot to BRC. So I go to BRC, which is in Coronado, and that's where I start seeing like the Buds guys. And I'm like, dang, you know, I was here. But I'm here now. And, you know, I did pretty well in BRC. There was a guy there named Mendoza.

And he was not good at all. And the instructors would get us confused. And so I would be running by and like, hey, you drop. And I was like, okay? And I heard you lost your map and this and that. And I was like, that wasn't me. That was Mendoza. And they're like, oh.

Like, we'll push him out anyways, you know. And then finally this guy, I don't remember if he quit or if he got dropped, but thank goodness. Because then once he got dropped, I'm just like, cool. Because he was just messing up left and right and they would get us confused. Mendez and Mendoza. So I had to pay the man a few times for his stuff. And then sometimes they were like, you know what, both of you. Just pay the man.

How long is BRC? If I remember correctly back then, I think it was like two months long. And so obviously you finished it? I did not. I actually got a stress fracture about two weeks from graduating. And, you know, they, they sent me back to the BAS with the Corman. I got x-ray and everything. Like, yeah. And at the time, you know, they were like, hey, how was he doing? And I like, actually, he ranked number one in the class before he got dropped. So he's like, he's welcome to come back. And then at that point, they're like, hey, do you want to go back? And I said, no. I was like, I want to go to Buds. I made my decision.

And I was like, hey, I want to do this. Like, because here's the thing. Like, if you finish, now you owe them time. Because after that, they send you to-B-R-C-you-O-them. Yeah, if you finish, then they send you to jump school, dive school. And now you belong to them because they've invested money into you. And it was kind of funny, too, because when I went, they were like, somehow it came up that I wasn't a citizen. And they were like, oh, shit, you're not a citizen.

Like, you actually weren't supposed to go to BRC if you weren't. So they were like, let's get you some citizenship. So they kind of fast-tracked me and I was able to get my citizenship. And so they're like, hey, for the rest of the time here, you know, we're just going to attach you to a platoon. So they improved you going to Buds. They were like, all right, if that's what you want to do. Yeah, they were awesome about it. I had great leadership there.

They were great, great, like super professional guys. I still keep in touch with some of them. So, hey, I'll tell you what we're going to do to you get orders and you go, we're just going to put you in a platoon. And you're going to do a workup deployment and you just be the Corman. And then when you get your orders to go to Buds, You go. So that's what I did. So I got orders to go to buds.

Were you worried about this stress fracture scenario? Because like that's all kinds of people get stress fractures in buds. Um, I wasn't because I, I never, you know, I was like, oh,

I'll heal up. I'm young. No factor. Yeah. So I got orders to go to buds in November of 2003. Right? Or 2002. Sorry,

2002. November of 2002. So where were you when, 9-11 happened? I was at the recon battalion, but they were like, hey, I don't think we got deployed or anybody from that battalion got deployed to Afghanistan at that time. But I was still there. But, you know, at that time, I already had my path. So they were like, hey, even if you go there, you're not going to go with the platoon.

So then when did you get the buds finally? November of 2002. What you expected? I mean, you must have been pretty freaking kind of ready for it. point. Oh, yeah. I had I had run with a ruck. I had done OTPs, countless OTPs. I was really good at Lanav. I mean, like I got attached to a platoon to workup deployment with them. So I was, I was ready. And so when I showed it like, oh, here's the thing, too. They sent me to like a combat engineer battalion. They're like, hey, we're going to send you, like you can't be in the platoon anymore because they're about to deploy. And, you know, obviously it's going to overlap. You're going to start buds before. We're not going to bring you. We're not going to bring you. We're going to send you. We're going to send you. Like, you're going to be in the platoon anymore. And you're not going to. You're going to bring home halfway through deployment so they're like go to this combat engineering battalion and you can work out all day and that's where I met this guy named cap'n gwin um who had like a master's degree in kinesiology and was all about in the fitness and when he learned that I was going to buds he's like

let me train you I was like are you serious he's like yeah so he got me even more prepared like we worked out three times a day in the morning at lunch and afterwards and then he started teaching me how to eat properly so when I got to buds I was I was ready like I could do 30 or more pull-ups, 120 push-up, 127. Like, I was a machine when I got there. And your water had obviously improved? Oh, yeah. At that point, I'd done countless O-TBs, and, yeah, that was good to go.

And then did you get what you expected there in Buds? Any issues or anything? So when I got there, I'm like, you know, everybody tells you, oh, you got to be the gray man. So I'm like, okay, cool, I'm going to be the gray man. And by gray man, people that don't know, this is just a term to explain. If you can go to Buds and you can kind of not stand out, that's a good thing. Because there's very few people that stand.

There's only might be one or two, maybe three people in a class that stand out because they're good. But the people that stand out because they're bad. And then once you've got someone watching you, then they're going to start seeing all kinds of things that you're doing that are jacked up. So one of the strategies of going to Buds is to try to be the quote, gray man meaning just be in the middle finish the stuff don't stand out don't draw any attention to yourself and that's a good strategy for getting through and you would heard i don't think we had that i don't think that was a term when i went through uh but i kind of instinctively well everyone instinctively knew you did want the freaking instructors to know your name or your face or you just wanted

them to ignore you as much as possible so you know you just try to do what you're told and try and you know yeah try not to stand out yeah that was the plan i'm like all right i'm not going to shine. You know, I'm just going to stay in like the top 25%. But that was not possible because when I first got to Buzz, you know, you're standing watch when you're waiting to class up. And, you know, a buddy of mine there and Buzz was like, hey, let's go out one night. You know, before we go out. So we go out and we party and... How old are you? I'm 22. Yeah, 2002. I'm 22.

I was like, I was young. So I couldn't. Going out wasn't a thing. I could go to the bar the E club on base you could drink when you're 18. But I wouldn't even want to do that. I just want to make it through buds. So it's weird to me, it would have been, it's weird to me like having a guy like, hey, let's go out to a bar because I can't fathom what it would be like to go to a bar when I was in buds.

Yeah. So we go out and he starts talking to this girl. And then he's like, hey, bro, like I need you to, you know, her friend really likes you. Like, I need you to entertain her while I'm with this girl and blah, blah. And I'm like, dude, I got a girlfriend. He's like, come on, man. we're going to be in the teams like you're supposed to have my back you don't want to be known as that

guy and I'm like really like you're going to play that card with me so I'm like dude I'm not digging you know what I'll talk to her I'll keep her busy for you but I could tell she she's into me like she wants she wants more and he's like dude we're going to go back to their place and I'm like dude I really don't want to he's like bro come on you got to do this for me I'm like listen I think she wants more than what I'm willing to give because one I wasn't attracted or two you know I had a girlfriend at the time. And so I'm like, all right, dude, like, I'll go, I'll go back to their house with you. And when we get there, I see her car and he has a first Recon Battalion sticker on it. And I recognize that sticker because it's a sticker for different parking lots.

You had different stickers. And that was like an operator sticker. Like, if you got the park in the operator parking lot. And so I was like, hey, where did you get that sticker from? She's like, oh, I could tell she's getting flustered. She's like, my husband. And in my head, I'm just like, yotsie. This is my out. And I'm like, bro, we cannot do this. We got to go. I was like, I am not doing it.

Now I have a legit reason to not go through with this. So we take off. We go back to Buds. And now I'm standing watch on Monday morning and I get a phone call. I'm standing watch at the quarter deck with another guy. And I get a phone call from the 618 quarter deck. So 618 is where the barracks are at. So you have the Bud's quarterdeck and you have the barracks quarterdeck.

And it's one of the guys in my class. And he's like, hey, Lose, there's some Marine here to see you. And it didn't even cross, honestly, dude, it didn't even cross my mind. Because you were in the Marines. Yeah, and I was like, oh, cool. One of my buddies is coming here to visit me. I was like, that's awesome. I was like, cool, man.

What's his name? And he's like, hey, bro, what's your name? He's like, he doesn't need to know my name. He slept with my wife. And I was like, what? I was like, I didn't sleep with his wife. And I'm like, bro, tell him. I could explain, like nothing happened.

Like, I didn't know she was married, blah, blah. So I'm trying to explain. And all I hear is this guy in the background saying, like, I'm going to kill this guy. Like, I want to talk to him right now. And I'm like, dude, I'm on watch. Tell him I'm on watch. And when I get off at noon, I can talk to him. He's like, no, I want to talk to him right now.

And then I'm like, fine. Tell him to come up to the Bud's quarterdeck. And I can talk to him here. And I guess tell him nothing happened. Like, dude, I don't know what's going on in your marriage, but nothing happens. happened. So then my buddy's like, dude, he's headed over there. And he's, he's big. He's a huge dude. I'm like, oh my God. So I'm sitting there. And then the other guy that I'm with, he's like, bro, you have to tell the instructor. Dick, you have to tell the OOD. He's like, there's no way.

You get in a fight here on the quarterdeck. You're done. And the OOD happens to be a first phase instructor that day. So I'm just like, oh my goodness. So I'm like, all right. I, I, So I go to the first phase office. You know, I ring the bell. I'm like, you know, HM3 Mendez, here to see instructor so-and-so. And the whole first-face staff is in there. Because this is in the daytime. Yeah, it's in the daytime.

Yeah, this is morning. So I go in there and at that time, all the instructors of buds were like enormous. They're all like six to and up, just jacked out of their minds. Like I swear they do it on purpose for intimidation factor. But at the time, they were all enormous. So I go in there and they're like dropped her. So I'm in the push up position. in my dress blues, you know, and they're like, what do you want?

I'm just like, some Marines coming over to kick my ass. And they're like, would you screw his old lady or something? I was like, nobody thinks I did. And they're like, like, who's this Marine coming over here to start some shit? Like, let's go over there and beat his ass. So the entire first-face staff is like, yeah, let's go over there. So they all head over there to the quarterdeck. God.

And at the time, there's like some guys from like Team 5 that were waiting there to screen for another team. And some of them knew each other. So like, hey, you know, what's up, what's up? And they're like, oh, you know, some brain coming over here, start some shit. Like, hell yeah, let's beat his ass. So now I'm like, yeah, come on over here, you know? And so we're waiting and nothing happens. And I'm like, dude, where is this guy?

And then the phone rings. And it's my buddy from 618. And he's like, hey, bro, I heard what happened. I was totally messing with you. Oh. And I could literally feel the blood just like drained, from my face and then the instructor's like, is it him? And I was just like, I just, I didn't, I couldn't speak.

So I just handed him the phone. And then he's like, this instructor so and so, who is this? He's like, oh, this is airmen, so and so. Like, where's the Marine? He's like, it was a joke. He's like, oh, you got jokes? I got jokes too. He's like, you and Mendez, in your wetsuits, two canteens on the grinder.

get some. Oh yeah. We got beat. He ended up quitting shortly thereafter. But there was no being the gray man. They all knew my name. You were the man. Oh yeah.

And it was just like from that point on, I'd be like, where's Mandez? It doesn't matter. Hit the surf. Oh, you passed your uniform inspection. That's great. Hit the surf. So, yeah.

So I was like, all right, well, if I'm not going to be the gray man, just go balls out, I guess. Might as well. Freaking legit. So you're not the gray man anymore and you're going just going hard. Is there was there any, did she have any issues in Buds?

Yeah, I did. No, not with the answer. Buds finds the issues, man. Yeah. Find your issues. Yeah, you know, during one of the surf passage, um, evolution,

I had one of the paddles come across and like break across my shin. And so I had this huge bruise on my shin for a while and I was like, you know, whatever. And I just kept going through training. And at one point, I realized that when I would press down on my muscle, it would just stay. And my knee got really swollen. I could barely move it.

And I'm a corman, so I know, I'm like, dude, these are like symptoms of compartment syndrome. But I didn't want to say anything. So I made it to the weekend. And I went back up to the Recom Battalion. And I'm like, hey, guys, like, is this what I think it is? And I think it is, like, do you need to go to the hospital? So I was like, well, I don't want to go to butts because I don't want to get dropped or rolled or whatever. So I check myself into Camp Pendleton Hospital

And then they're like Dude you got to get this drained You either have to have surgery You have to get this drained And I was like Well can we try draining at first And they're like yeah sure So they got this enormous needle

I mean it was thick too And they just started like draining the blood From there and they're like Dude you're not going to be able to finish buds And whatever I was like no I'll be fine So I go back to buds And then the instructors got word that I had checked into

medical up there and they're like, dude, we have a medical here. They were cool about it. Like, I thought they were going to be pissed but they were like,

hey, you know, they liked me at that point. What phase was that? First phase. Oh, this was before hell week. Damn.

Yeah, before hell week. So it was like the week before hell week. And then they were like, hey, no big deal. We'll just roll you to the next class. And I was like,

you know, it was extremely disappointing. So I got rolled and then I got rolled into two four, five and then the run before like the the last day before we started hell week on a run I stepped in a pot hole or I stepped in like a hole in the sand and I twisted my ankle really bad like this thing was enormously swollen and then I was like no it's fine like I'll go through hell week and you know I'll be

fine and they're like dude you're not going to be able to go through that and in my head I'm like this is twice now there's no way they're keeping me and um The proctor at the time, he's looking through my record. And he's like, dude, you haven't failed a single evolution here? Like, not a uniform inspection, not a room inspection. And you know how they are over there. He's like, not one. I was like, no.

So, you know, I had attention in detail from A, my childhood. And B, you know, my time with the Marines. Like, I had attention to detail and I could follow directions. That was like, that was the one thing I could really do. So they were like, you know, you haven't failed anything at all. Like, you know what? We're going to roll you one last time. And then, you know, last time I made it all the way through no issues.

And then where'd you end up going from there? So, you know, you got jump school, SQT, Alaska. And then I was a corpsman. So they sent me to 18 Delta to go through the special operations medic course. Which is freaking long too. Yeah, it's a little over six months. If you go through the full course, it's like a year long. Did you go through the short course or the long course?

Yeah, so I went through the short course. They asked me if I wanted to do the long course, and I said no, I didn't want to do that. But before I headed out there, you know, I'd been dating the girl I was telling me about Buds, and we actually ended up getting married before I went out there. And I did it because when I was going, so I had just bought a house too. So I bought a house around that time in San Diego, or not in San Diego. Tomecula because I'm an idiot, you know, and I was like, oh, look at this big ass house I could buy out here for cheap. You know, back then it was really cheap out there. I didn't realize like how long that drive was.

So, um, so I got married because I'm like, hey, I really need the San Diego B.H. Because I spoke to the admin lady at Bud's and she's like, yeah, if you have a house and you're married and you have, you're here, you're going to get San Diego B.A.H. And not North Carolina B.H. It's pennies. Yeah. Compared to San Diego. So once again, why did you get married? Want that B.A.A. I did love her. I'm sure there's other reasons. But yeah, so the reason I bring that up is because that was actually a sticking point when I was there.

It was an issue because as I was going through the training, I wasn't getting paid at all. I was getting zero. Like no money? No BAH. No B.H, okay. Which is a big deal because now I got a mortgage. And so I'm digging into my savings and I had been going, you know, to the to the cadre that were there. They have some seal cadre there as well.

It's not like all army guys. Obviously they have the liaisons for NSW. And I kept going up to them and telling them like, hey, I still haven't gotten paid. Still haven't gotten paid. And they were just like, oh, don't worry about it. And like it will happen. Like, I just felt like they weren't concerned about it at all. And for being honest, I wasn't a fan of theirs.

Like, I just didn't get a good feeling from them. And I'm really digging into my savings. And now I'm running out of money. And I don't know if you knew what Captain Smithers is. So he was the CEO at Bud's when we were there. And obviously, like, they knew who I was because of what happened. So, you know, him and I had chatted every now and then. And he actually came out and did some jumps with us.

And at one point during one of the jumps, like he was sitting next to me. And he was like, hey, you know, just so you know, if you ever need anything, reach out. You see where this is going. So I call Bud's quarterdeck. And I'm like, like, you know, Bud's quarterdeck. And I'm like, yeah, can please transfer me to Captain Smith's office? So I told them the story. I'm like, hey, I haven't gotten paid.

Like, these guys have totally blown me off. They haven't been helpful at all, blah, blah, blah. And he's pissed. And he's like, check. So he has Commander Zinky call me. And Commander Zinky calls me. And then he's like, that's unsat that you've gone that long without getting paid. So he calls over to the school.

I get paid like two weeks later. But I get brought in and just chewed out by this senior chief and chief that are over there. And they're like, you know, do not understand how the chain of command works and blah, blah. I mean, they were furious. and they're like, you know, we're going to take you to a Trident review board. We're going to drive you down to Virginia Beach and have a Trident review board. I'm like, dude, these guys are serious? So I go back home and I start calling like my recon buddies.

I'm like, hey, is it cool if I come back? Like, I think they're going to pull my Trident. And then they're like, dude, heck yeah. If you get dropped, come on back. So, you know, I go in there and then during one of the ass chewings that I'm getting, And I'm like, you know what? I'm like, if you guys really take me to a try and review board, this is like, what, you know, what consumed you call Camp Smithers?

I was like, we're friends. And I was like, and if you take me this giant review board, I'll call them again. And they were like, now they're like lost their mind. And then they're like, you'll be hearing from us when it's time for your Trident Review Board. And then I just never heard from them. They left it alone. And I got paid like two weeks later. Damn.

Check. Anything else from 18 Delta? Well, that's where I met, you know, I met Johnny Kim. Oh, right on. That little genius. Yeah, so he was in the class behind me. I met Johnny Kim. I was also roommates with the, with the Dauber.

Oh, right on. He was my roommate at 18 Delta. So it was pretty cool going through with him. Yeah. And then those guys ended up coming to team three and you ended up going to team one? Yeah. So I actually was initially supposed to. to go to team three.

And then the corpsman that went to team one for whatever reason, he couldn't get a security clearance. So they're like, hey, you're going to go to team one now, who's already started their workup? And then, you know, Dauber was the first one to get orders to team three. So, yeah, that's how I showed up team one, I think, 2005. Are you just fully amped to be at team one? Just like beyond.

And the war's going on. Exactly. Going on deployment. Yeah. You get thrown right into a platoon. Yeah. So I get thrown into the platoon. We start, they've already started their workup.

And it was everything that I thought was going to be. It was awesome. Best, best job ever. I mean, it really was. I mean, we would go to, you know, Mississippi for training and do CQC. And then we would go to Kentucky for South. And then we, you know, around that time, the PSD mission was going on. So, hey, we got to go to driving schools.

So we would go to driving schools And it was just awesome Like I loved being around the guys Like it was It was everything I thought it would be It was pretty cool We had some We had some issues in the platoon though

We went through three different chiefs Dang Yeah So the leadership was a little bit of a Dang Of a problem And then I think the last chief That they brought in there

Like I don't think he was really into it He was just like, yeah, I'll do it, you know. The crazy thing, one of the crazy things I learned to trade at when I was working at trade at was, look, you're going to have some weak chiefs. You're going to have some weak officers. But if you have some good dudes in there, you'll just overcome all that. You just overcome all of it. And you'll fit you guys are, the guys are going to figure out.

Oftentimes the seal team succeeds because of the lower, because of the leadership from somewhere in the platoon. It doesn't have to come from the OIC. It doesn't have to come from the chief. Now, those guys can be bad enough that they actually squash the junior leadership, and that's when you have a platoon that just falls apart completely. But if the, you know, I've seen OICs that were just completely getting carried by some two E5s in the platoon. The OIC and the chief getting carried by two or three good E5s. I've seen that all day long.

I'm sure you did too. Yeah. But occasionally you'll get a chief or a OIC that, look, when they're great, that's great. We're all good. But occasionally they'll squash the junior leadership because their ego gets involved and they don't want the, you know, someone else making calls and it just turns into a total disaster. The OIC wasn't very well liked either.

So you guys are getting, do you guys know where you're going on deployment? No, because we're competing for where we're going at the time. And, you know, like I said, unfortunately, the leadership didn't build good relationships up the chain of command. So even though the platoon was awesome Like we had some really talented people in that platoon Really really talented people in that platoon And you know

It is what it is that it is to build really We were not the favorite platoon And it was around that time when they're you know The LPL came up to me He's like hey you know we're short snipers Do you know you were a Marine You were good at land nav blah blah do you want to go Do you want to go to sniper school

And I said yeah He's like he's like two caveats he's like one it's army sniper school and two you got to go to UAV school afterwards and I'm like yeah fine whatever just send me yeah it's so weird how your mentality can be so unaligned with other people and they're giving you these quote caveats yeah bro when when we ended up going to Ramadi we were supposed to go to Baghdad and tasking a bruiser and my commanding officer calls me in and he's like he's presenting this thing to me like it's the worst deal ever and I'm like

So happy and I'm trying I'm just poker face. You know like hey Roger that's rum should we can make some adjustments and then I was like oh I can negotiate And I said well we're gonna need this or I'm gonna need some more people and some more like support and he was like yeah we can take care of that totally hooked me up bro But I was like oh are you serious you gonna send us to Ramadi instead Let's do this. Yeah, he was throwing caveats at me. I'm like yep no problems. We got this school. You know we're gonna send you viz school. I'm like Okay, you know I'm trying to hold my excitement in it's yeah, let's do it. So yeah, so yeah, so yeah, so I'm I ended up going to Army sniper school, and that was cool going to Army school. And, you know, it's pretty funny dealing with the Army guy. So at one point, so they sent another guy with me.

So they sent two of us to sniper school. We go out to a bar one night and we see some of the guys from our class. And at that, you know, at that point, they were kind of standoffish because we were being quiet too. You know, we didn't really talking to people. They see us at the bar. And then like, hey, you guys are the seals in our class, right? And we're like, yeah. Like, you guys, you guys mind if we buy you a shot?

And I was like, yeah, let's do it. So I'm like, cool. So they buy us a shot. And I take this shot and it's the most disgusting thing I've ever tasted in my life. Like I want to throw up. And it's funny because I take the shot and they're like looking at us. And I'm like, thanks guys. Even though inside I'm like, what the hell was this?

So I set it down. I'm like, thanks, fellas. And they're like looking and like, dang. That's why they're Navy SEALs. They didn't even flinch. So I guess they gave us like some gag shot. that's supposed to like make you throw up. Yeah.

And both of us were just like normal face all day long. No expression. Like thanks fellas. But inside I'm like, what the fuck was that? It was disgusting. And then they're just like, dang, that's why they're Navy SEAL. Did you see that? They didn't even flinch.

They didn't even flinch. And then, yeah, and then we had another, you know, we were back in, back in training. And they were like, oh, you guys didn't load up in the truck fast enough or something like that and they're like oh this one guy was like freaking out like guys if we don't do this fast enough we're going to get beat I'm like so what if we get beat like okay and one of the instructors heard me but he didn't know who I was so he was just like oh we got we got a tough guy at the group he's like all right he's like come on out so he's like pushups you know I'm doing pushups I do pushups and he's like okay flutter kicks and by the way like I used to do so many

flutter kicks that I got tired of counting and I would literally set my timer for 10 minutes straight and we just do flutter kicks for 10 minutes straight because I didn't want to count anymore. So he's having me do these flutter kicks. And I can tell one of the other instructors is like giggling behind him. Because the guy doesn't know who I am. He's like, oh, you're kind of good at these. And then the instructor's like, bro, you know he's a seal, right? He's like, dude, why didn't you tell me?

I'm over here like an idiot trying to break this guy. He's not going to break. And then afterwards, like, he's like, you want to dip? I'm just like, no, I don't dip, but thank you. Yeah. So you end up going on deployment. You go to paycom deployment. That's where you guys went, right?

Yeah. So the majority of the platoon got sent to Guam. And then they were like, hey, if you're a UAV pilot, a sniper, or a corpsman, you're going to go to the PI. And that was all three. Three for three. Three for three. So that deployment was kind of weird for me because I wasn't with my platoon for the majority of time.

Like I was literally getting farmed out to whoever needed me. So I went to Taua Tali, Holo, Zambwanga. It was times where I got attached to like an ODA unit because they didn't have their 18 Delta with them. And, you know, I got attached to them. And there was a point there on the deployment where I got, I got sent on a ship, you know, because that's how I was getting transported

from one place to another. And at the time I had another OIC. Just the way you said that. You're like, I got sent on a ship. Yeah. Well, that was like the one thing that I dreaded, you know, as it was going on a ship. So this was like my first ship experience.

And I'm there with my, my, Joe, who is a prior force recon, gunny, you probably know who he is. Very tall dude looks mean, just tat it up. And so we're on this ship together, and we go to Chow and I was like, hey, sir, you know, this is where you and I part ways. I got to go eat with the enlisted. You got to go to officers. He's like, I'm not eating by myself.

He's like, you're coming with me. And we're wearing sterile cameys. So no name tapes, no rank, nothing. So we go into the Chow Hall with the officers. And I'm just like, oh, no. So I'm sitting there and you can tell like there's this, this surface warfare officer. He's looking at us because he sees my GAO. I mean, he's tatted up.

We both don't look like officers. So he's looking at us and finally he gets the courage to come sit next. He's like, so, who are you guys? And then he's like, oh, I'm lieutenant so and so. And this is Lieutenant Mendez. And I was like, oh, dang, I just got promoted from E5 to lieutenant. So for like the rest of the deployment or sorry the rest of the time on the ship he's like calling me sir and whatnot and at one point You know I'm getting off the helo with my with my sniper rifle because we were doing like some sniper stuff

I'm getting off the helo with my sniper rifle and the CEO knows who we are we're on his ship and he was standing next to CEO and he was like hey HM2 do you might have oh that can you might have I check out your your sniper rifle and you just see this guy's look He's just steaming inside that he'd been calling you me serve for like two weeks and he's like turns out I'm an HM2. HM2 man spot promoted that's like Andy Stumpf. Spot promotes himself to whatever rank is required. And then you come back from that just roll into another platoon. Yeah.

And how's that one go? It was awesome. I had a new OIC, new chief, new LPO. and this OIC was pretty awesome. I remember when he first got there, he set a meeting with me, and I'm thinking, oh, man, I'm in trouble. Like, what's, you know,

because up to that point, I had very little interaction with my OIC, like very minimal. And I'm thinking, dude, I'm in trouble. So I go in there and it kind of shocked me. He asked me, like, hey, so what, you know, what's your family situation like? Like, how are you doing?

Is there anything you need? Where do you want to go with your career? It was like the first time anybody had really asked me, I was like, I don't know, I was just having a great time being in a platoon. You know, and he's like, you know, I noticed you don't have a college degree. There's this program, you know, where you can get commission. We send you away to school for three years. You come back as an officer. Is that something you'd be interested in?

And I was like, actually, you know, I actually had never heard of that. But yeah, it's interesting. I'll keep it in mind. And, you know, I always say that this guy built a better relationship in the first two weeks with us than the prior OIC had built like in two years. So it was pretty cool. He tactically speaking, he probably wasn't the best. But strategically, he was great because he knew who his subject matter experts were. He was a very humble guy, leaned on them a lot.

And, you know, the same group was together again. And it was an awesome, awesome workup for me. Like, I had an even better time in the first time. Because I'll be honest, like, I was disappointed the first time around with leadership. because I had been exposed to really good leadership with the Marines. Right. I mean, they were like just absolute professionals. And then when I got to that first platoon, I was a little disappointed.

So I'm like, okay, cool. So that's when I started realizing like, okay, leadership is, you know, ebbs and flows. Sometimes you get good ones. Sometimes you get bad ones and anything in between. It's a bell curve just like anything else. Was that when I was running trade it when you were going through that workup? I don't think you were there yet. Yeah, I don't think you were there yet.

Yeah. Yeah, you know, one thing I've always said is the, the Marines have like a tighter shot group or like a tighter standard. So, like, if you have like the best, you know, the best seal platoon, they're going to be freaking off the charts awesome. Yeah. And but the worst seal platoon is going to be off the charts shitty. And the Marine Corps has like a tighter, more standardized group of like, hey, this is what this is where they're going to be. They're going to fit in there better, which is nice because you don't end up with those low points of leadership. And then where'd you end up going on on deployment?

So before deployment, actually they sent me to Central America for a while because they had, they had a mission going on down there, a J-SET type mission. They were like, hey, does anybody speak fluent Spanish? I was like, I speak fluent Spanish. So they sent me down there. And so I was there for a while. I'll say it was long because they switched other people out. So other guys would go there for two weeks or so.

but I was there the entire time just because I was teaching all the classes and going out with them and stuff. So I did that first. And then we ended up getting Ramadi. So like, okay, cool. We're going back to Ramadi for our deployment. So I'm like, finally, this is it. And when did you show up there? October.

Let's see. My son was born in July. So, yeah, September, October timeframe. Okay. I was home for like a couple months after my son was born. But it had mellowed out a lot by that time. Oh, yeah. A lot.

A lot. Yeah. Yeah. So what was it deployment like? So it started off. Fantastic. Like when we got there, we hadn't been in country that long. And I remember we got our first mission.

And it was pretty cool because they're like, hey, it's a little bit outside of Ramadi. So we guys are going to take helos there. So I'm the point, man. You know, I'm planning out the routes and stuff. And I remember getting in the helo. and looking around being like, whoa, this is legit. Like, this is finally here.

Like, I've got my, you know, I look around, everybody's got their nods on. Everybody's got their weapons. We're in the helo. And, you know, it was a DA mission. Like, it's basically everything that you want to do. And so, you know, we get dropped off. A few clicks away.

I patrol into the target. And I see some guards out there with AKs. And it's the first time, like, like literally first mission. and I get to shoot someone right off the back. And I'm like, this is awesome. So I'm thinking that's the way things are, you know, because I go back to the base and I'm like,

oh, I got to reload my mags. So I'm thinking this is going to be like a normal thing. I better go get some more ammo because, you know, if it's going to be like this all deployment long. And then we actually don't do anything for like a month. I'm just like, oh, we suck again. But then they're like, hey, listen, there's work to be done. But if you want to do it, you got to go to the outskirts.

So we actually ended up packing all our humbies and going out to Thar Tharthar. And then from there we were at some small base and we're like living out of our humbies. But we were working, which is what team guys want to do. So I thought it was a great deployment. You know, when I hear you talk about your first one, that's kind of how I see this one. You're doing DAs all the time. You know, no one really got hurt. You know, it was great.

And you get some good experience. It's good to do those reps, man. Oh, yeah. Like you just, the whole stuff. cycle from the planning to the to the transit to the execution and things aren't going quite right but you get them sorted out like you just get good reps man yeah yeah yep and and as a point man like it was it was a really good experience for me that's funny because like around that time you know my my o i see at one point we something changed in the plan and then he's like hey uh he's like hey we need we switch

course or whatever i'm like checks i was like let me let me get under my poncho and my red red lens he's like, what are you doing? I was like, I need to look at my map. He's like, how have you been navigating this whole time? I was like, map and compass because in the Marines, that's how we did it. He's like, you don't have a GPS? And I'm like, no.

He's like, if you're going to be my point man, you need to know how to use a GPS. Because I'm like, you know, under my poncho, my redlands, like looking at my map and trying to figure it all out. And then, and so I go back to camp and I'm, I bust out my GPS. It's still in the wrapper.

It's still in the wrapper. So I'm reading the directions. And when I, I'm reading the directions to this thing. And then I'm like, where has this thing been my whole life? Yeah. This is awesome. Damn, that's crazy. That was in 2007.

Yeah, yeah. I'd always done a map of compass. Yeah, because that's the way I had always done it. And the Marines, we did a ton of land nav. And that's actually how I became the point, man, because one of the more experienced guys was like, hey, bro, I don't know how to land nav. He's like, you know how to land a lot. And this was like my first, first up, platoon.

So he's like, hey, you're really good at land. I'm right. He's with the Marines. I'm like, yeah, I'm pretty good at it. He's like, want to be a point man? I was like, heck yeah. So that's how it became a point man. But no one knew that I was just going off my campus, my compass and mouth until then.

And then when I discovered that GPS, man, that was a game changer. Yeah. Especially by that time. Because by that time in 2007, it was like one of the, you'd have them on your wrist. Yeah. You'd have them on your wrist. I had the little garment one. I was like, man, it even goes on your wrist.

I'm like, this is amazing. It's freaking ridiculous. in here and went in my pocket just in case that one broke down because now I really liked it so I'm like I don't want this thing breaking down on me. Hey what up that story with the S vest? So there's a couple actually. So the one that you know we always talk about with complacency we had there was like a drone that had watched some guys like planning some IEDs in the road and followed them back to their house and they're like hey you guys are going to go hit this house. I'm like cool. So our platoon was tasked with hitting that house.

And when our, you know, my platoon gets there, they're like, oh, it was kind of odd because it's just like an old man, some women and children, like, it's kind of odd. And, you know, as we're on Target or whatever, we start finding some, like, propaganda. We start finding, like, some small stuff, but nothing huge. And we'd been on target for, I'm going to say, at least like three, four hours. So we were there for a while. Like, we got pictures of guys like sitting on a couch. And, and by the way, this is like a painful story. tell afterwards because you know you like to think that you're professionals and it was definitely a slap in the face like whoa it's it's really not over because because leading up this like how many ops did you run at

this point we'd been there for a while so you so you were kind of we were in a good rhythm you were getting the reps but the reps start becoming routine yep and we were in the outskirts too so like this this house was out in the middle nowhere it's not like in remoddy where it's like a very dynamic environment where everybody starts coming out and they know you're there um so anyways so we're doing so we're doing and SSE and one of our guys. So wait, so you hit this target. It's in the middle of vehicles. Yeah.

So you drive vehicles up. You hit the target. Now you've done this a bunch of times. You get the target cleared. No contact when you hit the target. The people that you find on target is sort of the typical sort of people that you're going to find. Old man,

a couple women, some kids. The houses looks like all the other houses look like. So in your mind, you're probably thinking this is probably probably nothing here. Yeah, absolutely. And we had to have targets like that as well.

And you're there for three hours doing SSE? Yeah, because we started finding stuff. So, like, guys actually had their helmet and they were like picks and shovels and stuff. Okay. Like, we were actually, like, breaking down some walls. We found some false walls and stuff. Okay.

So suspects, so as you're searching it, you're like, oh, this is some propaganda. We need to go a little harder. Yeah, yeah. Now we're going a little bit harder. We find more stuff. Yep. And so, but at the same time,

there's been no bad guys. No. So you're just really just doing an intel recovery at this point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which means your guys are kind of chilling out a little bit. Very much so. Yeah. I actually have a picture of that, but, so anyway, so one of our guys goes into one of the rooms and lifts a rug up and there's this, there's something on the floor that that's a little different color than the rest. And you could tell it's kind of like a door or something. So he

calls the EOD guy over. He's like, hey, come check this out, you know, make sure it's not booby trapped. And he's like, nope, we're good. And I think we're good. Let's open it up. So we open it up and there's there's a bunch of dudes down there i think it was like 13 to 15 dudes down there and the first couple had like suicide vass on guy chucks a grenade up it hits our eOD guy in the chest they dive like behind some furniture the the grenade went low older so you want to talk about someone looking out for you that it was old you know um so it didn't blow up to its full potential and um the avalanche call came out because they saw they saw the s vest on the dude so avalanche everybody he runs out of the house. And as the last dude runs out, you know, our humbys are already ready to

go. And as soon as the last dude, last man out, it was like 50 cows like boom, boom. And we don't know if like a 50 cow hit someone's vest or if the dude clacked himself off, but the house blew up. The house blew up. And some of the guys were still alive, I guess, that were still under even that, even after that explosion. So guys are coming up. Some guys, left their helmets and nods inside the house. So some guys got no nods. I think a couple weapons were left in there as well. Yeah, as a matter of fact, I'll tell you some of the stuff we recovered afterwards.

But anyway, so yeah, we're laying down fire. And at one point, a rocket is shot, and it hits like five feet from our Humvee. So we're like, hey, we need to back out, and we need to drop air on this thing. So we back out, we drop air on it. We actually dropped a couple bombs on it. And then, you know, afterwards when we go and recover stuff, you could tell that these guys that were there, they weren't, they were foreign fighters. They were different than some of the other guys that we would come across. But we recovered some of the nods that we left in there.

We recovered one of the weapons that we had left in there. And it's crazy because I guess one of them must have picked the weapon up, like our M4 and started shooting with that M4. and when we picked up that M4 at the front of the barrel you can tell that the 50 cow round had gone through the front of the barrel out the back blew this guy's head off

and then we found this guy's head like 50 yards down down the road but it was crazy so I mean you know we have a picture of the gun like with a 50 cow so doing that report

on all the lost stuff that stings were you the LPO of the Spatoon oh no no I was just a, just a door kicker. Yeah. Oh, that's right. You said you were the point, man, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. I love being a point, man. So that gets your, that, that snaps you back into reality. Yep, yep. So, yeah, it's complacency. You said there was a couple S-Vs stories? Yeah, so the other one was, I guess they were, they were smuggling some S-vests in. I forget from where it was, you know, when you're young, you don't pay attention to some of the details that are passed on.

But they were importing some S-Vs. And at one point, the Iraqi police pulled this guy over who they thought could be one of those guys that was smuggling S-Fest. So we take the vehicle and we rip it apart completely. And behind the glove compartment, we find an S-Vest. And so our EOD guys take it out. And then they're like, hey, let's make it inert and let's put it back and let's see where he goes. And then we'll catch him and his friend. So they do that.

They make the vest inner. We put it back. We give the car back to the Iraqi police. And at that point, you don't know who's who's who. They're all corrupt. There's people that have infiltrated all forms of government and police. So we didn't tell them what we found. We're just like, hey, we're good.

So they're like, okay, cool. So they let the guy go. And of course, he goes back to his house. And at this point, now we're being mandated to bring the Iraqis with us. Because for a while, from what I could remember, we were by ourselves, like just us. But at this point, like, okay, so anyway, so we end up hitting this house and old boy has his vest on and he's like trying to clack himself off, but it's inert. That's awesome. And he had actually two switches.

Like he had a primary and a secondary. So, you know, he's yelling out. You know, he's like, click. And he's like, oh, crap. And he's like, click, click trying to do the other one. And how's that working out for you, homie? Well, he's got no head now, you know. Good stuff, man.

And no one got hurt on that freaking though where the spider hole was, huh? No, damn. It's like I said, that's about as good a deployment as you could do a lot of work and no one got hurt. You get done with that. And then is that when you come to trade it? Yeah, so I come back and they're like, hey, you're going to have to go to trade it. And I'm like, I don't want to go to trade it, you know. Are you an E6 now?

I'm an E6. Yeah. Yeah, I just made E6 on that deployment, actually. So, you know, I come back home. I'm having some personal issues. with my wife at the time. And, you know, instead of trying to work things out and be a good husband, which, you know, I look back on, I could have done a much, much better job of, you know, I look back at that marriage.

I'm like, hey, you know, that's 100% my fault. I wasn't a very empathetic person. Marriage is tough thing, and it's even tougher when you're young. And, you know, it's even tougher when you married a team guy who's gone all the time. And I didn't think about that. You know, I'm just like, you know, she moved right from her parents' house to me. And I'm just like, I don't understand what you're complaining about. Anyways, this is a lot of tension between her and I, and she served me divorce papers.

And instead of, you know, trying to take a knee and work things out, what do I do? They're like, hey, there's Corman needed for this Afghanistan deployment. And I'm like, I'll go. So I end up volunteering for a very short augment before I go to trade. And they knew that I didn't want to go to trade it. So they were like, hey, you've got some time here, team one before you check in to trade it. Cool. That was kind of like, you know, my gimmie.

So they're like, cool, go do that. And so I come back from that deployment, and then that's when I check in to trade it. And that's where I meet JP Danil. And did you go straight into, straight into Salk, straight to CQC? Yeah. So back then, the senior enlisted. of the assault cell, he would like interview guys to go to assaults. Because he was like, hey, if you're going to come to assault, like, we're screening you.

And so I remember him coming up, talk to me. Well, I was still at team one. I just got back from deployment. So like, yeah, you're going to assaults. So I ended up going to salk. But, you know, being the team guy I was, I was like, can I go to CQC too? And they're like, yeah, sure. You can do it.

Yeah. So I was doing CQC trips, South trips. And it was pretty cool. And you were there. that's when you were there and then JP was the OPO at the time. Yep, yeah. What did you learn in sitting there teaching?

You know, so now looking back, I always tell people that trade it was actually the biggest learning experience that I ever had because it's like the ultimate leadership lab. Because you get to watch two different styles of leadership go through and you're completely detached.

You have zero emotion or invested into that whatsoever. So you can armchair quarterback that stuff all day long. And it was where, you know, I started realizing the difference in leadership. Because if you think about it, the talent is for the most part spread out pretty evenly. You're going to have some good guys. You're going to have a handful of new guys. You're going to have some E5 pipe hitters.

You're going to have some couple slugs. Like the boys are going to be pretty consistent most of the. the time. Yep. You're going to get that. So yeah, it all boils down to just how is the leadership. How good is the leadership? And if leadership's good, platoon's going to rock. And if the leadership sucks, we could have some problems. Yep. So that's when I started seeing that, you know, um, yeah, training is the same. And I was like, okay, it really depends on that leadership, how they're going to do. And it was really cool to see like the leadership that did well. It was simply because they were humble. Like you could just tell their attitude right off the bat. Like they're like,

they're like, you know, when you give them, you know, criticism or critiques or whatever, they're like, got it, got it. Whereas the platoons that did terrible, they were just like, you could just tell they had attitudes about hearing anything, any feedback that you had to give them. And it was very blatant, like the difference between the, the platoons that had humble leadership and the platoons that just did not. I would like take this to the nth degree in my own head because I always wanted to make sure that, hey, what am I doing?

Am I doing a good job of getting through to this individual leader, right? And if it seems like this leader, like maybe they have a big ego and they think they're a badass, but you know what? I don't care. I always wanted to make sure that it wasn't me, that it wasn't my end. I was like, okay, you know what? The guy's got a big eagle. It's okay.

We want guys with big egos. Like, hey, you've got to have a big ego. Let me rephrase that. There's nothing. You can't expect seals to not have some kind of ego. Like, hey, I know how to do this, some level of confidence, right? Like, so it's okay. I get it.

You know, you, you think. you're a badass cool I don't want to work for someone that doesn't think they're a badass right cool I'm good with it okay let's move forward that but man you'd get these guys that occasionally again most most of the most of the leaders are like cool like we're down occasionally I remember I remember once I we had this one leader coming through salk and I talked to our civilian that worked there who is a prior you know seal he was actually my my T U S-E-A when I was between commander and I said hey bro man just can you do me a favor just check me on this like just look at this guy's face when I'm putting out word and just give me

I go because it seems to me like he doesn't want to hear anything from anybody I just want to make sure I'm not totally off base but can you just check him out and so sure enough like as I as I'm talking you know the guy be sitting there with his arms crossed and and and again I'm just saying I'm not even like saying dude you're totally jacked up I'm not saying anything like that I'd say something like, hey man, do you ever think about maybe, you know, putting some vehicles over here on this target? And you can see the guys like arms crossed. I'm not, I'm just offering a suggestion, you know, and the dude, arm crossed. And yeah, we get done with that debrief and that civilian comes up to me.

And he's like, bro, this guy's freaking crazy. And I said, okay, I just wanted to make sure because it just, I guess the reason I'm saying this is because the guys in trade at, the guys in trade at the attitude of our guys in trade at was just to try and help out our friends that are in the teams like that are in a platoon that was the attitude the attitude there's no like hey I know how to do this you don't there was no matter of fact I wouldn't allow that kind of shit if we had instructors like that I would freaking pull them aside because our instructors realize like oh where these guys are our friends there are our teammates they're getting ready to deploy we need to do our best to help them out yeah and and and a lot of those guys

know as much as what we know right so you got a guy that's got a bunch of experience a bunch of deployments they know as much as we know so cool we're not attacking them we're not talking down to him so my point is if you have your friends that are trying to help you and you reject them it's really really bad it's really really bad it's it's horrible actually and it'd be such a bummer to see it'd be It'd be such a bummer to see because literally like every guy at trade at was just, hey, these are my friends that I'm trying to help. And if why aren't you open to us helping you please?

Like we don't want you to get hurt, man. So, uh, yeah, good times. This freaking, um, great place to learn. Yeah. And I was like, I did that luckily when I was at seal team one as of E5. I worked in our training cell, which is when the. The teams used to train themselves. And so I got to do the same thing when I was young,

and that's where I learned most of my stuff, was doing that. Again, sitting back, detached, watching guys go through platoons. We used to run the SQT classes at the team. So that was really eye-opening too, because now you had the young officers. And you'd watch them and think, this guy can't make any decisions. Why can't he make any decisions?

Oh, it's because he's shooting his weapon right now, and he shouldn't be. Give him a two-by-four, give him a stick, let him get off his gun, and he'll figure it out. And then you actually learn how to do that for yourself. So yeah, if you really want to learn something, it's really advantageous to have an opportunity to teach it as well.

Yeah. It was also where I learned how to like brief and not, I wouldn't say public speak, but you know, like when you're talking to team guys, you better be squared away. Yeah. Because they are chomping at the bit.

Oh, yeah. To like sense any weakness or anything that you say that's maybe not tactically correct. So it's where I learned to. be very deliberate about the way I spoke in public and debriefed. Yeah, and if you don't, if you don't have anything that's smart to say, don't say anything. And if you have a thought that you haven't thought through, either think through it or present it in such a way that it's not like an aggressive attack.

That's absolutely true. You know, you're no seal platoon. You don't have to be in traded. You're in a seal platoon and you disagree with someone else. what are the chances that you're 100% right? The chance that you're 100% right are almost zero. So eventually, probably two weeks into my first platoon, I realized, oh, I'm very seldom going to be 100% right.

Why don't I present ideas as if they're an idea, not some perfectly formulated, perfectly constructed notion that is 100% true? Because there's so few things that are like that. Yeah. Even the most, like I talk about in leadership strategy and tactics, the OIC that I had, that was awesome. He knew more than all of us combined. And he would present ideas as if they were suggestions and ideas.

And he was always open to changing those ideas if somebody said something smarter. So you get to see that stuff over and over again. That's what's crazy, though. When you're working at Trade Ed, as you see a platoon tonight, do three, four, five runs. Another platoon do three, four, five runs. And then a few weeks later, you're going to see two, other platoons with a bunch of different leadership, do the same runs, basically the same runs with the same people, and the variable is the leadership. And then a few weeks after that,

you get to do it again, and again, and again, and again, and you just start to see what works and what doesn't work, and it's real obvious after a certain point. Yeah, my learning curve was very steep there. How long did you do it trade out? So let's see, I got there in 2008. And I think around, what, 2010 or so, it was, it was like my time to rotate out, but we had gotten a new chief in. And so it was time for me to go do my LPO. But the new chief that came in, I really liked him a lot. Just, just an awesome, awesome guy. And then he was just like, hey, can you stay at trade it a little bit longer and then be my

OPO when it's my time to go? Because I'm not going to be here very long. He's like, I want you to be my OPO. I'm just like, dude, I want to deploy, man. Like, that's a long time. He's like, okay, how about I? I send you. on another augment, I'm like, I want the full one this time.

So we're like marketing here. I was like, I want a full deployment. And he's like, okay, you got it. So I went back to Afghanistan for another augment. It's part of the deal. Nice. Yep. And you're getting some good operational experience on your augments.

Oh, yeah. When you're going over there? Yeah, absolutely. Living the dream. Yeah. It was really cool. Just to see, you know, watch a different team. do different things.

And, yeah, I learned a lot. I learned a lot from, it was the first time, too, where I kind of heard the TL, like, during a gun fight, like just how calm and collected they were. It was just like as if nothing was happening. And then I remember that thinking about that in my head, like, I want to be like that. You know, like, okay, cool, that's how I'm supposed to be.

You know, so, yeah, it was a really good experience again. And because, you know, my skin tone, I was able to help them out in ways that, you know, maybe some of the guys couldn't. So some of the targets had to be done like during the daytime. So we had to like drive around and like milk trucks or something. And because, you know, I could fit in with the populace. I just get in like the passenger seat and be the navigation guy. So you're back to be an appointment, man. Yeah, yeah, but in a car.

Like a local populace and you're able to pull that off. Yeah. And that's also because, yeah, so halfway through the deployment, like, hey, we need, we need those back. like at assaults and then I was like hey they want me back and then the team leader there was like let me call them it's like actually we really need him over here so they let me stay the rest of the time freaking beautiful yeah uh but you end up did you end up did you end up then going with your chief in trade at to be his lPO no so around that time they they sent johnny kim over to assaults like just very temporarily because he was on his way to um go to school so he got picked up for this

this program where the Navy picks like two people at the entire Navy. And they send him to go get their underground. Somehow Johnny Kim slid through the cracks. Yeah, right. So he's like explaining this program to me where basically, you know, the Navy pays for you to go to med school afterwards.

And it sounded like a good deal. And at the time, you know, I was feeling really guilty. I'm like, I'm just been gone a lot. And I was like feeling like I wasn't like the best father to my son, even though I tried to spend as much time with him

as possible. I always had that guilt. And then there's a part of me. I was like, you know what? Maybe I should get like a normal job and be there for my son. So on a complete whim, like I put in my package for that exact same program. And I'm like, dude, if Johnny and Kim is getting accepted to this thing, the chances of me getting accepted are like slim to none.

And so I'm getting ready to go back to a team with that chief to go be his LPO. And then I'm flying back from an assault trip. And then he's like, hey, did you see the result? And I'm like, for what? Like I literally completely just, I applied and just forgot about it. I'm like, dude, you got picked up for that program. I'm like, are you serious? He's like, yeah.

So I was like, well, I guess I'm going to school. Freaking crazy. Go try to be a doctor. There was a time period. And it was this, this was the time period where I'm not kidding. Seals had a really good reputation in the world, you know, and certainly in the Navy. And I, man, guys were getting picked up left, right and center for this kind of. kind of stuff.

Yeah. So, I mean, that's freaking crazy and awesome. Yeah. So what's funny is, you know, like I said,

they picked two people a year out of the entire Navy and the other guy was a team guy too. Yeah. That's my point. That's my point. Like, that's crazy, right?

Yeah. But at that time, man, we, like the SEALs were just doing a lot of good work. And I mean, I'm sure that when they looked

at your record, like seriously, they looked at your record and compare that to the other applicants, I bet it wasn't even really that close just because of the nature of what the seals were doing at the time.

Yeah. So, but did you have any intention of like going to medical school for however long that is? So I thought I did. You know. So are you a year behind Johnny? Yeah. Okay.

So you're a year behind Johnny and Johnny went to USDA. So I went to USDA. Just because I'm like, hey, I'm just going to do what Johnny did. So, um, so first. We had to go to like that officer school up in Rhode Island. So in January of 2012, that's when I left Trade It and we went to Rhode Island. And it's where you learn how to be an officer.

Do you get commissioned up there? No. No, you just go to school. Yeah, you just go to the school. You don't get commissioned until you graduate from school. But that's actually where like, you know, they're like, oh, you got to have blue camis. I'm like, I don't own any blue camis.

And what's funny about that. So I didn't know. So they have the, you know, the big blue jackets. And those things are expensive. That's like 350 bucks. And I'm already buying all these uniforms that I didn't have. Right. Because I don't have any blue stuff.

And neither did my buddy. Because you're going to have to do. Yeah. Is that what you're going to have to do? Yeah. Afterwards. But you don't have to wear blue camis. Oh, but you had to get those blue camis for the knife and for school up in Rhode Island.

Correct. Got it. So the other team guy that's there with me, you know, we go there and he's cheap too. So he's like, I don't want to buy this jacket. I was like, I don't want to buy it either. I was like, screw it. I don't need no jacket.

You know, even though it's road isling in January. So we form up, yeah, we form up, and I'm in my blue camis, and he's not blue camis, and, you know, the chief who's like the RDC or whatever he's called, you know, he's like, oh, how come you guys don't have jackets? I was like, well, you know, we didn't want to buy them because we're literally going to have them here. We're never going to use them again. And they're really expensive. He's like, well, we're all uniformed around here.

So they make everybody take their jackets off. And it's freezing cold. and then he's like we'll keep doing this until you guys buy jackets and I told my buddy don't you dare buy a jacket and he's like okay cool and we were freezing cold but we would just sit there and be like we're not cold but we were we were dying it's not high school and got to the point where they're like you know people started crying in the class like literally like oh you know we're freezing cold so they're like all right change into your khakis I was like okay I'll buy the jacket for the khakis come probably I might use that later on so you get done with that and then you go to

you go to USDA. University of San Diego you're going to be doing the same whatever, the same thing Johnny did. Yeah. Trying to get your pre-med

knocked out. Yeah. How'd that go for you? Not well. I'm not Johnny Kim. I'm miserable. You know, I'm taking like 18 to 21 units a semester.

I really didn't enjoy the classes I was taking. It's like chemistry, biology, just stuff that was so boring to me. And then to top it all off, I'm doing parking services because, you know, USDA's a private school and the Navy only pays like, I think it was like, I don't, I shouldn't say only. They pay 10K. And the tuition at U.S. is like 40K a year, like 40-something K a year.

So they're like, hey, if you do parking services, it'll pay off the rest of your tuition. So it's a good deal. Like if you really break it down the amount of hours that you work, it's a really good deal. So I'm driving around this cart giving people tickets at USD and bad karma dude. Yeah. Well, I almost you know, almost got into this big altercation at one point. So, you know, so this other team guy. You're the worst ticket guy to mess with. Imagine that. You think you're getting into, you think you to argue with some random ticket dude and it's freaking loves, bro. Well, it's, you know, it's funny. It's like if I have to hear, you know,

do you know who my dad is one more time? I'm just like, bro, I don't know who you're dad is I'm really sorry but you know you're parking in a handicapped spot yeah but at one point um so the parking so it's me and another team guy so the the the other parking services kids you know they actually they're normal kids they won't going to school and they're like oh if you guys want to get a lot of tickets you got to go down to this area right here and it was like where the football field or the baseball field was you know by the gym you went to usd right i did yeah so you know what i'm talking about so my buddy i didn't do ticket parking i used to get i used to put my bike in my station wagon and I would park off campus and just bike wherever you need to bike home,

bike back to my car and drive home. So at one point, you know, we go down there and it's like, it's like the jackpot of all, like violations. Like we got, because we were having trouble meeting our quota. So this other team guy and I, you know, the other parking service kids are like, oh, if you go down in this area, you get lots of tickets. So we go down there and we're like, oh, heck yeah, dude, there's all kinds of violations down there.

Like we met our quota super quick. And at one point, I had come up to this car and, you know, you got to punch in the license plate to give them the ticket. and it was like, do not let, like, call the office immediately if you see, if you get this license play or whatever. No kidding. Yeah. So I call it.

I'm like, hey, this thing came up on my little gadget and they're like, do not let that person leave. They have like nine unpaid tickets or something like that. That was insane amount. I'm like, what do you want me to do? Like, well, park your cart behind his car until the tow truck gets there and do not let them leave. I'm like, is that legal? Are we allowed to do that? And they're like, yeah.

So I'm like, okay. So I parked my cart behind this car The other team guy, I don't know where he took off to He's gone He must have been finding like lots of tickets And so I'm sitting there I'm waiting for the tow truck And now I see everybody getting out of football practice

And the guy's car The car who's, you know I'm parked behind the owner comes And it's a really big dude You know, he's a football player He's pretty jacked dude, big dude And he's like Hey you need to move your cart

And I was like Hey bro there seems to be a problem like, you know, with your ticket stuff. I'm like, they called the tow truck, but I think if you call them, you know, and work something out, he's like, he's like, move your fucking car. I was like, I can't.

You know, they told me this. And now it's starting to be, and I'm really like, trying to be like, hey, bro, like, listen, I'm like the low man on the totem pole. And now the rest of the football team is coming out. And now they're getting fired up. And now I'm sitting there. And I'm like, where the hell is this other team guy at?

It doesn't matter how good of a fighter you are. There's a bunch of them. you're going to get your ass kicked. So, and then the guy's like, move your cart now. I'm going to beat your ass. I'm like, listen, bro, I really don't want that. Listen, if you put your hands on me, I'm telling you right now, I'm going to defend myself.

And at that point, I'm thinking, dang it, man, this is really going to happen. And some guy comes running through them all. And then he's like, hey, do you know who this guy is? And I'm like, who is this guy? Yeah, who am I? Like, who does this guy think I am? You know, and then he's like, he's a freaking Navy SEAL. And then you just see their attitude.

You completely, like, oh, I'm really sorry, sir. Like, I didn't know, you know, I was like, hey, bro, it's totally cool. Like, you know, I'm pretty sure if you just call you can work something out. Turns out this guy was the running back was a prior team guy. Oh, no shit. And he knew that the parking services guys were other team guys that were trying to, you know, pay for the rest of their tuition. So he saved me that day because that probably wasn't going to go down. Very pretty for me.

And then you eventually just changed to, you change your major and you get out of the medical program. Yeah, so at some point I'm just like, I took a finance class as one of my electives and I'm like, man, I really like this. And I really miss the teams. I don't think I want to do this medical thing. So I changed my major without telling anybody. And then when they're like, oh, so where are you going to go to med school? I was like, oh, about that. I'm actually, I want to go back to the teams if that's okay. So I want to finish my decree and go back to the teams. And they were livid. They were just like, no, you're going slow. You're going to go be a surface warfare officer. Oh, my God. So now. So now. I'm just like, I don't know what to do. So, you know, I make some phone calls and they're like, that's stupid. You're not going to go be a slow. You're coming back here. The only problem is you're going to have to go through the process, just like everyone else. So I have to take the screener, do an interview.

I'm like, yeah, that's totally fine. So I do the screener. I go do the interview and one of the interviewers is my old CEO from Team One. And he knows who I am, you know. So I'm thinking, oh, this is going to go great. you know and at one point he asks me he's like hey so what are you going to do if you don't get picked up for for special warfare and then um as an officer you know and then i sat i was like well i think i'm just going to give up my commission and go back to being enlisted and you just see everyone's head just go

and at that moment just seen the expression on their faces i was like oh man i said something i wasn't supposed to. And, you know, because you're supposed to say, hey, I want to be an officer no matter what. And he was really cool about it. He's like, listen, Lois, he knows who I am. He's like, I'm going to give you one more chance at this. Okay. I'm going to give you another crack at it. I wasn't the best answer. And then I sat there and I'm like, dang it, I might have messed this up. So I sat there for a minute and just thought about it. And I'm like, you know what, sir? I know that the correct answer that you want to hear is like, I, if I don't, get picked up for this. I'm going to go be the best SWO or the best

Submariner officer on the planet and then I'm going to make my way back but I'll be honest with you I don't want to do that I was like I just want to be in the teams and whether that's as an LPO a chief or as an officer I was like that's why I'm doing this I miss the teams I want to go back and he's like that's the answer you want to go with I'm like yes sir because it's the truth and then he's like it's a bold move don't know if it's going to work out for you I was like day but yeah eventually I got picked up so back to the teams so where'd you go what team so I was originally supposed to go to team five and that old chief that I was talking about the one wanted me to be his LPO and then

the master chief who was the SCA at assaults they're like hey because they came to my commissioning they're like where you going I was like oh I'm going team five they're like no you're not yeah you're coming to team three boom and I was like well you know and they're like trust me we'll make it work so some raids were made. Like, they gave up a couple of their JOs, send them to five. And whoever the J.O, one of the JOs was in the platoon, because they had already started workup. Damn. They sent this poor kid away.

He already started his workups. So now I go in there and I'm there with all my buddies. Like I knew the LPO. I was at assaults with the LPL, the chief. This is your platoon that you get put into? You're the AOC. The AOC. Yeah.

And you just, they're all your boys. All my friends. From LPO on up. I didn't know everybody else, you know, down. but and then cool good it was awesome yeah the oh i see um so they put me in that platoon because they were like hey the oh i see you know he's a really good dude he's just a little um they use the word timid he's just kind of shy he wasn't a very outspoken guy and then when i heard him brief and i heard him on the radio i'm like oh i see whereas like i have no problem getting on

the radio i have no problem briefing so we actually complimented each other very well because he was a good officer like he knew officer things that I did not. Right. So he showed me how to be, you know, like a ground force commander. He showed me like all the checklist, all the procedures. And, yeah, it was a good experience. And I got a lot of reps, you know, being the OIC because I was good on the radio.

So I got a lot of reps. And our chief was a complete stud who I went to Buds with. So I learned a ton from him, too. He was a J-TAC, so he taught me a lot about being ground force commander. Where'd you guys go on deployment? We ended up going to Alta-Qatom. Yeah. So we were there for the AA, just advise and assist. So there was no a company at that time. So we were just behind the flock, just calling in, helping them, the Iraqis call in air to try to retake Al-Anbar, which had been retaken by ISIL, or, you know, whatever the name of the week was for them. Yeah. And that's, how's the platoon? What's the platoon doing as you're doing that?

I mean, so really the only ones that are working are the J-Tax. Yeah, they're really the only ones that are working. But I mean, at least you're freaking killing bad guys. Yeah, absolutely. But we're also eating mortars a lot because we can't go forward. So we're just sitting back there eating mortars. And at one point, the mortars got really, really close to us, blew one of our Humvees up. as I was running towards it, this home V gets hit and just blows me on my ass.

So there's definitely a TBI. So they put me on TBI protocol for a little bit. But right around that time, I get an email telling me like, hey, from this chief of mine, now he's the SCA now. He's the SCE at this point. He's like, hey, Lose, you know, we're going to actually send you to Baghdad. And you're going to replace this. J.O. as the strike cell commander.

And I'm thinking like, why? Like, I don't know anything about JTAC stuff. And the jail that was there, he'd actually gone to like a JTAC school. Really, really intelligent guy. Like super intelligent, way smarter than me. And I'm like, what am I going to do over there? I don't know anything about, you know. And he's like, and so it's funny because as I'm getting on the helo to leave, he's getting there.

And we're crossing paths. And I'm like, bro, why am I getting sent there? Like, I don't know what I'm doing. He's like, don't worry about it, dude. people like you. I'm just like, okay. He's like, you're going to be fine. So, you know, I get to Baghdad and I'm getting the turnover from this J.O. And I could immediately see that these gen, the general there is just not a fan of ours. And then through conversation, we had, we had, we had burned some relationships there. And backtracking, though, when I checked into team three,

guess who my CEO is. It's my first OIC. Right on, man. And you want to talk about like a lack of relationship building. When I show up, he was just like, hey, you're that guy that got in trouble for such and such thing. Right on. And I'm like, freaking awesome. No.

I'm like, that wasn't me. That was someone else who doesn't even look like me. Like, he's a white dude. Like, there's nothing like me. So I'm like, way to go, man. We spent two years together and you don't even know who I am. God, that's crazy. But anyway, so back to the story.

The relationship had definitely been strained. I could just tell, by the way, this general was talking to this GO. It was just like, he did not like us. And, you know, like I said, this jail was very brilliant, really knew his J-TAC stuff. And so now I'm left there. And I'm thinking, like, man, we got to repair this relationship. So that's actually the first thing I started doing. The general was a Marine Corps general.

And so I was just chatting him up. He's like, hey, you know, where were you stationed? Where are you stationed? He's like, oh, Camp Pendleton. And I'm like, oh, that was my first duty station. He's like, what are you doing there? I was like, oh, he used to be an FMF corpsman. Boom.

Yeah, his eyes just light up. And from that point on, you know, him and I just start chatting. And then I, you know, start asking him like, hey, you know, what is it that you guys are looking for when you're looking for these strikes to be approved? What can we do to help out what you guys are doing? And he's like, as a matter of fact, you know, we need this, this and that. And I'm like, check, let me see what we can do about it. And so what my job was was I would get all these air strikes. for the next day that my platoon wanted to carry out strategically strategic air strikes and i had to

brief them to to him to him to another general to one in a two-star general get him approved in a room full of kernels that were all jags and super risk adverse like they were denying a lot of the airstrikes and that's the reason why i sent me over there like hey a lot of our stuff's getting denied go see if maybe you can change that up so so i go in there and and i grab one of my j-tacks you know this is actually where I had like another epiphany where I'm like you know what as a leader I don't have to know everything I'm like I have someone who went to JTAC school so I'm just going to lean on them because at the time I'm like I don't know what I'm doing I was really like insecure about it like I'm going to go in there and just not know what to brief so I told them I'm like hey listen I'm in a brief strategic picture like

why we're doing theseirstrikes anything technical you can answer them and he's like check so that's how I would do my briefs and like I said I built that relationship with that general so every time I briefed, you know, and they went around the corner taking, taking the vote, he would always take my side. And once he was in, the two star was going to be in as well, no matter what the JAG said. So from that point on, from where I could remember, we got all our airstrikes approved from that point on. It was just a simple relationship building. What had the J.O., the smart J.O. Was it something he did or was it just? It was not. It was something our CO did. Yeah. So it's just a bad relationship out of the gate. Yeah. Yeah. And then he had a bad taste in

his mouth, I think team guys on that particular deployment. He made some, some comments here and there that I caught on very quickly, like, Chuck. God. Freaking horrible. Are you married again at this point? Yeah. So, yeah, so when I was in Traded, I actually met my wife. She was my waitress, a very classy establishment. Jack. Called Hooters. But I went in there with a team guy, and I remember seeing her, and I'm thinking, like, oh, my God, she's gorgeous. Like, there's absolutely no way someone like that would, you know, go for someone like me. And it turns out that I had gone a couple dates with one of her friends.

So she had told, so she told her friend, she's like, oh, you know, I saw that guy, he sat at my table that you were dating. She's like, oh, we're not dating anymore. She was like, do you care if I get his number? She's like, no. So that's how he ended up a meeting. And so at this point, you know, we've been together for a while. since trade at and now I was already you know at my OIC and she was just like hey you need to marry me if you don't marry me before this deployment I'm not going to be here when you get back so ultimatum

delivered check and and you know it was a hard decision for me because I was like man I love this woman but we you know fought a lot and during that deployment that one to Tyrak our relationship was very very stressed during that time Just got married before you went on a appointment. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm thinking to myself, like, you know, I'm going to fail at this marriage thing again. Like, what am I doing wrong here? And what's crazy is, like, when I was at Trade Act, you know, you talked about the four laws of combat a lot.

And we talked about, like, find what your red flags are. And in the teams, my red flag when I got overwhelmed was, you know, when that thought came in my head, like, I don't know what to do right now. That was my cue to detach, prioritize and execute. And for the longest time, I thought that these four laws of combat, this ocean was only combat related. And it was the first time in my life where I realized that it's for your personal life too. Because at that point, you know, I got back from deployment. We're still fighting a lot. But I'm like, man, I love this woman.

I don't want to fail at this marriage thing again. And in my head, I thought, I don't know what to do right now. And that's when it clicked for me. Like, wait a minute. I've had this thought like literally hundreds of times when I'm on training mission. where I'm like, oh, I'm a little overwhelmed. I don't know what to do right now. Detach, prioritize, execute.

And so at that point, I'm like, I need to detach, prioritize, and execute in my personal life. And it was at that point in my life where I decided to start taking ownership of my mistakes and realize that, you know what, I'm an imperfect human being too, and I stopped concentrating on everything that I thought was a flaw on her part

and just started concentrating on how I could become a better husband. So I'm like, you know what, this is what I do wrong, and this is how I can fix it. I have no control over her attitude. The things that I don't have control over, I stopped worrying about them, and I started concentrating on the things that I could control. And at first, it was a little bit of a campaign because you could tell it she was like, what are you doing? And then it got to the point where she started doing the same thing. Like we just started taking ownership of our parts of the marriage, and I stopped worrying about what she did wrong and only worried about what I was doing

wrong and eventually she started to do the same and her marriage is completely turned around since then and you know it's all marriage you got peaks and valleys but it's it's been amazing kind of like when you're in a platoon like where everybody's taking ownership of stuff for no one's blaming anybody else we're just trying to solve problems and that's how that environment finally was in my marriage so yeah it's it's funny when you talk about like when you're in a platoon and everyone starts taking ownership stuff you know problems get solved What's crazy is the opposite of that? It's not one level of badness when people aren't taking ownership.

Because when they're not taking ownership, they're blaming each other. So it's not just, oh, we're going to blame each other. And that's not good. That's not good. But guess what else is coming? Now we're fighting. We're yelling at each other. Like it causes exponential problems beyond just, it's not just, oh, if I take ownership,

the problems get solved. If I don't take ownership, the problems don't get solved. If it was that simple, it'd be like, you'd probably deal with it. But now we actually are fighting. We're undermining each other. We're yelling at each other. We turn into freaking idiots. And so, yeah.

And that can happen in people's personal lives too. You know, it's not just that, oh, well, we've got this problem in our marriage. And it's not my fault. It's your fault. If that's where it stopped, you might be able to muddle your way through it. But that's not where it stops. It stops. And you say, it's your fault.

What do you mean? It's my fault. Actually, here's some of nine things that are, You're fault, but all of a sudden we have not just one little problem that's not getting solved. You have exponential problems across the board. It's a freaking disaster. Yeah. It's a game changer.

Now, you came back from that deployment, and you actually did a couple years where you were doing some classified stuff overseas. And obviously, we can't talk about things that are classified. but maybe some unclassified lessons learned from what you were doing? Yeah. I think the biggest thing that I learned while I was over there is how to build relationships. And honestly, I got really into it and I started trying to perfect that craft by reading books. So I started reading books like How to Win Friends and Influence People, the like switch, like anything I could help get my hands on because I knew that when I was over there,

it was just going to be me and one other operator. That's it. We didn't have like a support system. We didn't have a platoon. That was us. So we had to build a good relationship with like the local populace in a very short amount of time. We had to build a good relationship with our interpreter. And that's really honestly when it boils down to it, our lives depended on these relationships.

Because at times you're asking some of these people to risk their lives for you. And so that's where I really started delving into how do I get people to trust? and like me to the point where I can influence them in the shortest amount of time. That's really the biggest lesson I got out of those two years from doing that mission set. Yeah. Well, and that's something that applies across the board. You know, it's funny when you were talking about the switch going off in your head of like, oh, I can use this stuff. That's the same thing that happened.

That's what started all this stuff. I went and talked to these freaking executives about leadership. They started asking me questions, and I was just applying the principles, the forelaws of combat, take ownership. Like that's when I started and it was 30 it was the first question I got asked I was like oh Oh you have this problem. Okay here's how you solve it just based on the principles that we already know Yeah it's like a freaking Such a nice moment in my life where I was like oh because I didn't again I didn't I was totally institutional institutionalized I didn't understand I didn't know anything about civilian companies I didn't know anything up at all about them and all of a sudden I realized in an instant that oh all this stuff applies

to all these leadership situations, man. And that's the same thing. Going back to building relationships, it's like, oh, yeah, guess what? Have you ever had a moment in your life where having an antagonistic relationship with someone you've got to work with helps? It's like, that has never happened to anybody ever.

It's never happened. Where, oh, I don't get along with this person and I have to work with, and it's beneficial to me. It doesn't happen. So why are you not focused on getting to build relationships with people? It's freaking crazy.

But good lessons. You come back from that and you go back to trade it again, right? Yep. I go back to trade it as the XO this time. Damn, XO, a trade it. Yeah. What are you? Are you a lieutenant now?

I'm a J.O. Still. A J.G. A J.G. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because I did my, so I, because I didn't have to go through buds and everything else, I did my first deployment as an ensign.

Yeah. And so, you know, I'm a J.G now. And because I'm prior enlisted. And I knew the CEO there at the time who was also a prior enlisted guy because actually him and I had. done a deployment. We'd done that Iraq deployment together at team one. And he was like, yeah, come on over.

I was like, you know, I need to do a disassociated tour. Because they were like, you need to. Because I was like, hey, can I go back and do my platoon commander? Yeah. And they were like, no. They're like, you need to get away from it for a little bit. Because, you know, they have like a limit on how much time you could be deployed. And they're like, dude, you're like right there.

You need to go somewhere and take a knee. So I'm like, trade it sounds good. I really like, I really enjoyed my time there. And so I decided to go back. And then you're doing the exo billet, which is not quite as fun as doing the- It's not. Definitely not as fun as being a- It's not what I thought it was going to be.

So the CEO actually gets the funner job. For sure. Because he's actually going to the training trips and debriefing. As the X-O, you're dealing with everything else. The admin stuff, the disciplinary problems, getting all the meetings at group. Yeah. Yeah, you were, I, man. My career was such a,

freaking, I was just so lucky and everything. Like when I went there, I was just the, just the OIC, you know. So just getting, just going out and training trips and freaking awesomeness. At what point, so how many years do you haven't at this point? This is like 2018, so you're coming up on 20. Yeah. Is this when you start thinking about maybe doing something else? Yeah, so I mean, I figured I had the time.

So I'm like, hey, I'm going to go knock out my MBA. I always really enjoyed business. And then through conversations, they were like, after this, they were like, you can't do your, your, um, OIC until like 20, 24 or something like that. And I'm like, what am I going to do until then? Like, you do more disassociated tours. And I'm like, you know what? That doesn't sound interesting to me. So I think I'm just going to retire. I mean, at that point, I was going to hit 20. So I'm like, you know what? I'm going to go get my MBA and and punch out retire. So that's at that point where I started looking into NBA program.

and trying to see where I was going to go. Then you end up going back to USDA? No. Is that right? No, I went to UCLA. Oh, you went to UCLA? Yeah. Yeah, it was a point about that is I was really set on like getting an M7 school.

You know, like the magnificent seven. So I'm like, I'm only going to go to like Wharton or booth or MIT or one of those. And so those are the only ones I applied to. And I realized that the GI Bill doesn't cover those because they're private schools. even though like some of them actually had lower tuition than UCLA and at that point I had a really good friend of mine one of my best friends if you look at his resume it looks almost exactly like mine like FMF Corman uh you know teams USD finance degree and then he's like hey bro I'm actually going to go to UCLA and I'm like why is that and then he's like dude do GI Bill pays for it because it's a public school and I struggled with that for a little bit doesn't cover private schools it only covers like a small portion. I was still going to have to take out like a six figure, a six figure student loan. And I've always been pretty frugal about my money. I'm like, dang, I don't want to take out this huge loan. And then I kind of went into thought, I'm like, why do I want to go to one

of these schools? Like, why do I really want to go? And at some point I realized, I just want people to think I'm smart. I mean, we really, like, you know, pulling it down on this most simple point. I just want people to think I'm smart. And I'm like, you know what? I think I have enough to get to where I want to go if I go to UCLA. So I would drive up to L.A. every weekend to go to school there and knock out my MBA. And then from there, you wanted to investment banking, right? Yeah, yeah. So I knew that I, you know, like, wait, what do you do after an MBA?

Like, oh, everybody does investment banking or consulting. And I always really liked finance. And then my buddy, I was talking about Kyle Roy, when I tell you, we got exact same resume, he's like, dude, I'm going to go be an investment banker. I'm like, cool, I'm going to go be an investment banker too. So. Is he like a year ahead of you or something? No, we're in the same class, but he actually knew how to do it.

So he actually got in. So there's a cycle to it. And I didn't know that. So when you first get to your MBA program, literally the second you step on campus, you're already recruiting for it. You're already recruiting for the internship for that summer. And then you go to your second year. And after you graduate your second year, you start full time.

However, by the time I figured it all out, I was already on my second. year. So I was a year behind. And so nobody really wanted to deal with me because it wasn't the traditional path. So I just started reaching out to people on LinkedIn, like sending them my resume and I would put in like whatever bank U.S. like I would put Air Force veteran, Marine Corps veteran. I'm like, dude, if anybody's going to answer me, it's going to be a veteran. And that's how I started getting in was like a veteran from these banks. They would start reaching out. You know, they saw my resume and like, I think they were intrigued. Obviously the Navy Seal Park kind of stands out. I'm not going to lie. I tell you, that's definitely what got my foot in

the door because some of these other people, it's an extremely competitive job. And some of these people, A, way smarter than me. And B, had like a legitimate pedigree in the finance world. And so. Meanwhile, you were ex-Overtrain. Yeah. So I told my wife, you're a good point, man, Jack. Yeah, I told my wife, I'm like, dude, when I go to these meet and greets, because it's like a million meet and greets because it's extremely competitive. I'm telling you, it's so competitive. And especially in LA because in LA, there's a lot less slot. Like if you go to New York, there's a ton of slots in New York. But everybody wants to be warm weather.

So everybody's like trying to apply to go to L.A. And I told my wife, I'm like, when I go to these meet and greets, like all these people, they're just ridiculously smart. I was like, it's pretty intimidating. And then we had this one interview process where they actually take you in with your other competitors. So it's like you and two other people that you're competing with. And then you go and you interview with these bankers. And these interviews were like three hours long.

Like you would do half an hour with this banker and then half an hour with this banker. And that's when I realized that I belong there, that I had a shot. Because the very first, that interview process wasn't technical at all. It was all about leadership. So when they start coming up with these questions,

like, tell me about a time where this happened. I'm like, cool. I have a story for that. I have a story for everything. and it was cool because I would tell my story and then the guy next to me would tell his story and it literally got to the point where I'm not kidding you in the interview the guy next to me was like

I really hate going after him what am I supposed to say after that so that's what I'm like oh I got a shot and you ended up getting hired yeah I ended up getting the internship so the internships like you know nine weeks long It's basically like a nine week interview. And it was legit.

Like you're, you're working your ass off. Grind. Yeah. It's a grind. And then you had another year of school to complete? No, because I had actually started my second year.

Got it. So I. So you got, so your internship went right into job. Yeah. And that was actually one of the, the things were I used to pick a bank. Did you finish school when you were in?

Did you finish school when you were in still in? Yeah. Uh-huh. And then when did you do that nine week internship? Did you leave? Damn. Yeah, I was already on my way out. Yeah.

It was like, it was like getting close to terminal leave or whatever. Exactly. I said saved all my leave specifically for, for, you know, me getting out. Got it.

And so I used it all up then. And I got hired and they let me start right away because, you know, I didn't have another year of school. So, and then I retired. And then how'd you like, how'd you like the investment banking world?

Uh, I liked a lot of it and I didn't like other parts of it. I really liked the mergers and acquisitions. So that's what we did. We did mergers acquisitions and then leverage buyouts. And we were dealing with big, because I got hired at a big bulge bracket banks. We were working on like some big deals.

And it was exciting. It was cool. It was interesting. It just wasn't cool for 18 to 20 hours a day. Like I worked long days. It was like an early night was midnight. But most of the times I'm, you know, I'm building PowerPoints and Excel models till three, four in the morning. Those times where I didn't sleep at all.

Like our presentation was due at like 5 a.m. And I turned it in at 5 a.m. Where were you working out of? So home because it was during COVID. Yeah. So I didn't have to move up to L.A., which is good because my wife didn't want to move up there. But we were set on moving up there. But it was every time we drove up there to look at places, the drive home would be very quiet.

because we could just tell that neither of us wanted to move up there but it worked out for me because like I said it was COVID so they're like hey we're going to be virtual you know for the time being and and I think when I realized like I don't want to do this long term is when I saw the managing directors I've been there for a while like I would finish a presentation you know and it's like four in the morning like hey you need to call them I'm like it's four in the morning like you need to call a managing director to make he has to look over that PowerPoint before we turn it in and I'm like dang so I guess this never stops And I had had a couple TBIs throughout my career

So my migraine Because I wasn't, there was literally nights Where I wouldn't go to sleep at all I'd roll right into the next day And then my migraines were starting to get more frequent And staring at a screen like all day long And I'm like, this isn't gonna be a long-term play for me But I'm gonna tough it out

You know for the two or three years or whatever You gotta be to make VP and then move on something else And I didn't realize that the job offers we're going to start rolling in so quickly. So like once the job offers, like recruiters started reaching out to me, I'm like, I'm going to start looking elsewhere. And around that time is, you know, JP had been talking to me about echelon front now for about a year.

Like even when I was in Tray Day, he's like, hey, you thought about coming over here? And I was, I was interested, but I just never materialized, you know. And I just went down my path. And I told him, hey, JP, this is actually what I'm doing now. And I'm kind of all in on it. And so it's around that time. I'm already looking at moving to different firms. I've already got a couple that I'm pretty close to signing with.

And then JP calls me one day and he's like, hey, bro, we have a client who, you know, about 50% of his employees speak Spanish. And I told him we could deliver. I was like, you did. He's like, well, yeah, I got you. Because he knew I was fluent in Spanish. And I was like, bro, you ever seen office space? I was like, that's my life.

I have seven bosses, Bob. You know, so I'm on seven different deals. And for each deal, I have to get approved. Granted, some of them are, you know, have some spillover. So there's, I'm working with, you know, managing director for two or three different deals. So I'm like, dude, it's going to be so hard for me to get a day off. Like, it's going to be near impossible. And he's like, bro, I really need this.

And I'm like, all right. You know, and JP's one of my brothers. Like, I love JP to death. So I'm like, let me see what I can do. So I put in the time for two personal days. And by the way, a personal day, it's funny when you get the email that says, this is what a personal date looks like. You will check your email, you know, like six times during that day.

And if you need something, you will answer it. So it's really like a personal day. You're still freaking working. So I'm like, I took two personal days to come out and help them out with this FTX. And so I would literally, you know, teach all day long. And then I pulled an all-nighter trying to catch up on all the work that I missed throughout the day. So I didn't sleep for like those three days that I was there. But it was cool because I showed up and it was this construction company.

And when I showed up, I could tell that some of the guys weren't happy to be there. And not because they were, you know, lazy or anything. They just wanted to go to work. They're hardworking people, you know? So they're like they want to be working instead of being in this leadership course. And so let's see. I think it was a Thursday. Yeah, it was a Thursday where the first day of class started. And we split the class in two because they had so many people that we were going to teach one class one day. And then the other group that's next day. And on Saturday, we did like a debrief tying it all back into their business. So day one, I'm teaching. I could see that, you know, they'd rather be working than be there. One of their foremen who, you know, it's like one of their rock star foreman shows up late. Like same thing. He's like, man, I'd rather be working right now. He don't want to be there. And then at the end of the day, I noticed the switch. Like they,

I could tell that they were enjoying themselves and they were learning stuff and it was clicking. The light bulbs were coming on. And at the end of the day, this foreman, he comes up to me. He's like, hey, man, I'm really sorry that I showed up late. Can I come back tomorrow and do it all over again? I was like, it's fine with us as long as your boss is cool with it. And he's like, okay. So he comes back the next day, you know, and does the full day of training with Eshielan front.

And on the third day when I heard. heard their debrief points and the impact that it made. I mean, some of these debrief points, it was like emotional. Like it was like legit. And I was like, wow, like you guys are doing something really great here. And I felt good about it. You know, their CEO was just, just cared so much. He's super, super intelligent guy, very caring, very humble. And it was just a pleasure talking to him and seeing how much he cared about his team and his people and then seeing how these, other people appreciated now really started to appreciate the fact that he did this for them like was trying to develop them as leaders because he cared about them he cared about the company and i told jp

i'm like man that felt good i haven't felt good about what i was doing for work for for a for a while since i left the teams and um and that's when i was like okay let's have a serious conversation of what this could possibly look like for me joining eF so so here you are You know that little obstacle that you get over with, and obviously I've been doing this for a long time now, there's a little obstacle with some people when they show up for training. And the obstacle is, well, there can be several of them, but one of the biggest obstacles is they don't yet understand

that leadership is a skill and that it's something that they use and it's something that they can actually learn and get good at. And it doesn't take very long in those sessions where people go, oh, wait, that's me. Oh, wait, I could use that. And all of a sudden they realize this is going to make my life so much better. And it's going to make my team's life so much better. And that is so gratifying to see that.

And what's really awesome is when you look up in three months, six months, or a year, and now you see where that company is and their trajectory that changes for a company and how they elevate and move forward man it's freaking it's very very rewarding to say the least

yeah every time I do another job I'm just just solidifies that decision for sure it's weird were you thinking because the first gigs that you did was teaching FTX which is like our field training exercise which is

You know, J.P. And I've talked about this where I'm like, hey, JP, people don't, they don't need to really, like, know how to clear a room. Yeah. It's just, it's funny. Almost the human instincts that you have of how you would clear a room are good enough to do the FTCs. It's not about teaching people how, you know, the tactics of combat. It's just a, it's about teaching them leadership. But it's funny, like, even the plans they come up with.

Like, we give them a target. They're plans. are like perfectly fine. They're perfectly fine. Sometimes they're not that great. Sometimes they make mistakes. But a lot of times it's like, yeah,

you know what? That would work. That would work on this target for real. And these are people that are civilians. Because let's face it, hitting a target of bad guys, it's not rocket science. It's not rocket science to figure out what you're going to do.

And we give them enough basics that they can figure it out. But for me, you know, the leadership laboratory that we got to work in when we were actually in and actually at trade-ed and actually seeing platoons go through,

that is such a powerful thing. Because, man, when you are in those situations, you feel it. And when you, like you think, oh, I'm good at detaching. And then you go on a run where you're freaking yelling and screaming. And you know, and you say, oh, how was that detachment on the last run?

As you were yelling and screaming at everybody and shooting your weapon a bunch and not, and no one took charge of anything. So obvious when you actually experience it. And you learn that lesson so much more thoroughly. when you actually experience it's freaking awesome to watch yeah absolutely i've had messages like on on instagram or linked in where people have gone through our training it's like hey i had this situation at work and i thought about that time where you took the gun away from me and told me to lead

you know because when they're not detached and they're just getting after it with their gun but they're actually in charge like every now and then i'll take their gun away and i'm like hey lead now you can lead because you don't have a gun and and so you know they'll write back like i remember the time you did this to me or you said this to me. And I say that at the FTXs. I'm like, hey, you know, going through that pain actually solidifies that lesson way more. It's like Bruce Lee says, the pain will leave you when it's done teaching you. It's one of my favorite quotes. And I tell people that too, like in my brief in the morning, I'm like, hey, we're not here to teach you leadership. I mean, we're not here to teach you tactics. We're here to teach you leadership. And in the absence of knowledge, because you don't have

any knowledge doing this, what do you have to lean back on your leadership, which is simply you, trying to influence another 25 people towards a common goal. So you're going to have to use all those tools that we've, you know, talked about. And the groups that do the best are the ones that are able to apply it immediately. Like they make that connection. And the ones that struggle are the ones that, you know, can't seem to do that. You know what's interesting? I was just thinking about this from a jiu-jitsu perspective.

How long have you been training jiu-tzee for? Since 2012. 2012. Lots of off. So what's interesting is, thing is you know people like you take a normal dude yeah and you say hey what did that doesn't train and you think hey if you get in a fight what would you do they kind of like they kind of think what is it that the hey I just see red bro you know I go off bro like that's kind of what

they think they think that that is how they're going to fight and that's how they would win in a fight like hey I'll just freaking make it happen and that's totally ignorant that's one of the most ignorant things you could say and if you go against someone that's trained then you're absolutely gonna lose but there's also a really good chance you'll lose anyways Imagine this there's people that go that are in leadership positions that their mentality is that exact same thing Hey oh if I'm in charge tell people to do I'll handle it and and they could literally learn Jiu Jiu Jitsu for leadership we have Jiu Jitsu for leadership it's like an amazing Untapped knowledge that like the Gracies the Gracies brought Jiu Jitsu to the world and all of a sudden people like

Oh, I can joke people. I can defeat someone that's bigger than me. I can avoid getting hit. Like, there's all these amazing things that we literally did not know as humans. We did not know. And if you would have gotten a fight, if I would have gotten to a fight in 1990 or 1991, I would do what my instincts are. Throw haymakers, whatever.

Like, whatever it is a human is going to do is what I would do. And then all of a sudden, as soon as I learned, oh, the joke. Like all of a sudden you know what to do and now you can handle all these situations and it's the same thing with what we teach It's like oh this isn't some this isn't some mysterious thing like here's oh this is an arm lock It's called cover and move here's taking the back this is keeping things simple you can actually learn Maneuvers for leadership and that's what hits people when they're going through our programs You can see it in their face they're like oh oh I remember when a guy was doing this to me And all I had to do back was, was diminish, you know, reflect and diminish.

I could have taken that angry person and reflected some of those emotions, but diminished them. And then I could reflect it in such a way that they would realize that I'm on their side. And then we'd be able to have a real conversation to move this important. That's one move. There's all these moves you can learn. And man, it's just like this, you know what? It's actually the same look when somebody does Jiu-Jitsu in whatever moment. Because different people get it at a different time.

That moment where they go, oh, this is amazing. Like, oh, it all makes sense. I think it's sometimes when people realize that, you know, oh, and then you sweep them and you're in the mount. And they go, oh, it all's connected. You see that look in their eyes. And I see that look in the eyes. That's what you're talking about.

Like the guy that you're talking about that came back at the end of the day, like, hey, can I come tomorrow? Because he realized that it's all connected. That leadership is a skill that he could actually utilize these tools. to go out there and lead his team with, with skills and with techniques and with procedures, moves. Man, it's freaking empowering.

Legit. And that's where you're at right now. Yeah. We just went through your whole damn life, bro. Yep. That's pretty impressive. We'll have to, uh, I know there's,

I know you had some, uh, some stuff that you wrote down for me that we didn't cover today that we'll probably cover on, cover on the next time as, you know, get a little bit more granular on some of these things that you experience for sure, but probably a pretty good place to wrap it up. Of course,

Echo probably has some questions at this point. I'll keep it. Got questions. I'll keep it simple. Have you ever heard that you look like Oscar Delahoya? Every day of my life since I was 16. I understand completely. As a matter of fact,

in my platoons, they already knew it was coming. And so when we would go out, like, you know, people would be like, hey, is that? And they would be like, yep, Yeah, but where's security.

That's what they would say. And just not too long ago, I was in New York and I was with my wife and this guy comes out to me. He's like, hey man, I still think pound for pound, you're the best. And then she's like, are you going to correct him? And I'm like, I'm tired of correcting people. But then it's like more people started coming. I'm like, hey, guys, I'm not Oscar.

The buff version of Oscar Deloio. The jacked version. The jacked version. I've gotten that forever. Yeah, that is an uncanny resound. I yeah who do you look like echo Charles jade too easy though you even asked that one before that was too easy got that twin brother uh yeah man like I said we'll dig into some more of the stuff in the future probably good place to wrap it today um sounds good good

echo Charles yes sir sounds like it kind of seems like Carlos has gotten a lot done yes he has I'm thinking maybe we should all uh do more what do you think we should What do we start? Well, you mentioned Jiu-Jitsu. What a good place to start. Yes, sir. Yeah, we wanted to do J-J-T. Yeah.

Purple Belt. 2012, it's 21, it's nine years. When did you get a purple belt? Just recently. Yeah, but off and on that cell. Yeah, I was on deployment a lot, and then I bounced around a couple of schools, and I'm training actually with your buddy, Aaron Hernandez. Oh, right on.

Dude, he's awesome. Freaking awesome. His, yeah, he's awesome. You know, like, I started, he started training that when we were, at Fabio Santos. He was like 10 years old, man. He showed me pictures. I want to see those pictures, bro.

That's freaking rad. Yeah. He's awesome, man. His dad, like, would just come. A lot of times nowadays you see, like, the dad's all into Jiu-Jitsu, and that's why the kids are there, almost against their will. It didn't seem like Aaron's dad was into it, but he's like, oh, this is what my kid wants to?

Cool. I'm going to sit here every day, you know, for two hours on the bench, waiting for my kid to get done with this, whatever this weird stuff is that he's doing. Yeah. Freaking legit. So what's that? 2012. So you're almost 10 years deep.

Yeah. Got that purple belt. That's how the underachieving purple belt. Yeah. So, yeah, even life was like that too, right? Dude, Leif was a white belt. Bro, I started training those guys in 2005, but actually he had trained before that. Leif had trained at Fabios.

Oh, no kidding. Before 2005. Yeah. So Leif was. like white belt for I mean long time yeah long time as we used to say in oh long time yes too long time I was perfectly happy at blue belt yeah Aaron was like bro I got he got it he got to you yeah blue belt is the own blue belt is the last chance you have to be under the radar yeah because once you're a

purple belt but people expect you there's a yeah you you can get tapped you can literally get tapped by a white belt as a blue belt and isn't not that big of a deal Right? You're kind of like, well, you know, I'm just a blue belt. Just a blue belt. It covers a lot of ground. I was a blue belt for a long time, too. I was a blue belt because I was a blue belt.

I got my blue belt in San Diego, but then I moved to Virginia Beach. And I mean, dude, and I was training. When I was in San Diego, I was training all the time. And then when I got to Virginia Beach, I did a couple deployments, so I wasn't training as much. But even when I was on deployment, I would train with the boys. But I was still a blue belt. So it was years. I think I was a blue belt for like, I want to.

And then when I got back to San Diego, Fabio, you know, I had to like re-earn my wrist. It was like I, it was like when I wasn't at Fabio's, he's, I wasn't training. He was like, whatever. Hey, I don't know where you were. You might have gotten better, but it doesn't count. We're starting where you left off.

Yeah, we started where I left off with him. So it took me another, another probably, I think I was a blue belt for like five years. Yeah. Blue belt. And I never buy my wife anything. Like hard. effort, a poor woman.

But when I got my purple belt, when I got my purple belt, I went to a flower store. I got a purple flower of some kind or like five purple flowers and brought them up. I was so stoked that I wanted my wife to be kind of stoked to

to get that purple belt. And I was ready for it too. Like I mean, when I got my purple belt, I was ready for that purple belt. I had somebody, so I got their black belt the other day. A friend of my got a black belt the other day. He's like, I'm not ready for it.

I was like, no one feels like they're ready for the black belt. No one almost no one right maybe you just won worlds or whatever Yeah, but you're not just like oh yeah I forget who it was I think might have been Clark Gracie I think I could be wrong so whatever But it was the kind of where he was winning everything as a brown belt everything and in and I think he was like I don't know if it was a coach or whatever Someone was kind of like oh wait is he doing that just so he can win a bunch and someone was like bro like he he can't compete as a Broner belt anymore it's like someone has to give me his black belt like that's that's the only

exception I could ever think of yeah well Dean List won ADCC as a brown belt yeah yeah yeah via submission by the way absolute by the way so so we're thinking jihitsu is good yes it's good fitness is good Carlos in great shape you know and always good to see so we got some healthy how should I say healthy we want to go in a healthy direction mentally physically You know what I'm saying? So I'm going to talk about energy drinks first because that's, you know, kind of what we do from time to time. So we got Jocko, discipline go, energy drink, healthy energy drink.

By the way, if you didn't know, Carlos. I do. Those things power the FTXs. I know. I was like a softball, what do you call, rhetorical kind of question, right? Because I know, I know you know about the discipline go scenarios. So, yeah, so yeah, we will drink energy drinks now as long as it's this kind. Yeah.

Yeah. For sure, because the other kind is bad. It's a dichotomy. Well, this kind completely bad for you, legitimately bad for you. And this isn't like, oh, well, Jocco's trying to sell his energy drink. No, I'm telling you, those other energies are factually bad for you. We have one that is factually good for you. Yes, sir.

Factually. You know that there's a, I don't know the service, but you can do it online. I was going to do it for a video. I was going to make a long time ago before all this. where you can make your own energy drink, like if you want, oh, you know, Carlos, extra thunder, energy drink or whatever, and you can kind of pick a flavor and then, like, they'll design the thing or you can design the thing and then you just get it.

But it's all like the similar, like if you want cherry blast or whatever, I don't know what you'd call it, but if you get like a cherry flavored one, it's like the same cherry flavored as like, you know, Jocko cherry blast. I would do lemon lime lose. You know what's interesting is you might think to yourself and this is good because you did the investment banking thing for a while and did you guys take any companies public? So actually during my internship, I worked on an IPO. It's interesting because we work with a bunch of public companies, obviously, but you might think to yourself like, hey, well, why doesn't everyone just make, you know, a energy drink that's good for you? Do you think that, right?

Like, hey, well, that just seems like that seems like a good idea. And here's the deal. it's more expensive. It's more expensive and it's going to cut into your profit. And as soon as you get into a point in a company where you're like, oh, we want to do the right thing and make the best product and we are not going to make as much money. There's like armies of people that tear you apart and say,

no, just freaking make more money. It's the same thing with our hard goods, with our clothing. As soon as you get to a point, where you can make jeans, oh, we're making jeans. As soon as someone goes, hey,

we could shave 48 cents off the price per pair of those jeans. There's an army of people that say, do it. They say sell your soul. That's what they say. And it works. Of course. It makes sense.

Think about it too, especially the more you sell, right? Where, okay, I'm going to do this. Oh, we're going to shave 48 cents. When you're selling like 10 pair or 10 whatever, it's like 40 cents. It's like what, $4?

I'd rather keep my integrity. But once the numbers start going way up there and 48 cents means like another like, I don't know, half a million dollars for you or whatever. You're like, oh, I think that 48 cents, you know. So it's a literal selling of the soul. Literal selling of the soul, man. Because like this is pasteurized, right? Which means we don't have to put chemicals in it. Which, by the way, this is chemicals that everybody uses.

They all throw them in there. Hey, there's not that bad. Right, right. It's not that bad. Yeah, yeah, sell your soul. We'll say industry standard. Yeah, it's the industry standards. You kind of shrug your shoulders and be like, well, you know, that's the way everyone's doing it.

Well, there's certain like toxins, right, where like the FDA is like, well, you just keep them below this level. And technically it's like it's legal or whatever. It's like considered not harmful or whatever. We pound like three of those every day. It's crazy. Big trouble. Big trouble. Nonetheless, not with these.

Obviously, it's good. So yeah, get on some of that. That'll help you. That'll help us. You know move you in the right direction yes sir staying fit and mentally because the cognitive stuff in there as well Also keep your joints in in the game as well you know if you still if you want to work out as you get older Do you lift you lift today? No Do you lift today? I did yeah

What time you lift what time do you usually work out? It's not 430 if I saw today I got up at six What'd you do? Just like don't not do but like roughly what'd you do? Yeah, well You pull up to you. What'd you do? Today's leg day. Me too. I mean, he just happened to be. This is a Sunday.

Yeah. But here's what's cool. I got done. I was just, my son opened the door to my garage and I could, you know, feel his presence there. And normally he's wanting to jack steel himself. Mm-hmm. And I racked the weight, squats, racked the weight, turned around. And he goes, how many more you got?

And I go, I'm done because I was literally done. And he goes, waves are good at the pier. And I go, let's hit it. Is it cold right now? Kind of cold. It's California. It's California meaning it's not going to freeze, but it's not going to be warm either. Are we using a wetsuit right now?

I used a wetsuit today. There you go, boom. Weakness, weakness. No, no, no, no. Efficiency, look, do you want to enjoy surfing? You don't want to enjoy surfing. You know what the weird thing is? Frankly, if you go surfing without a wetsuit, it's only cold for the first, most days.

I mean, if sure, it's freezing. But most days, it's only cold for three minutes. And then it's just normal and you feel fine. Those three minutes, though, that's what puts people, that's what has people squeezing into that damn wet suit. Yeah. And also, when you're in the cold water, they, like, you'll handle. And maybe for like an hour,

and it depends who you are, obviously. But after like an hour, it's almost like the coldness. Like you get hit with that initial coldness and your body's like, ah, it's not that cold actually. So we're cool. Plus you're generating heat from all the stuff. But then the coldness kind of on a strategic level starts to just seep in. Yeah.

And it kind of hits you like, bro, I'm kind of, this, it's kind of, Here's a big factor. Do you serve, Carlos? No, I don't. Here's a big factor. If you're going to be catching a lot of waves and there's good waves coming in, you're going to be fine. But if it's one of those days we're going to be waiting and there's a little brisk breeze at your back,

you're going to get chilly woo. Oh, yeah. There's two factors with that because one, you're not having fun, you know, like, you can endure it. Like, you actually don't even notice a lot of stuff when you're having, like, fun. You don't notice how tired you're getting. You don't notice a lot of stuff. Cole's probably one of those when you're, you know, hitting. And then you're moving way less.

Yeah. And then you're just sitting there just being cold. Just sitting there being cold, man. Now there's a, let's face it, that's kind of legit. You know, when I see someone skinning it, like props. You get into, I'm giving you props. If you're skinning it, you're getting props. Maybe if it's the dead of summer.

But any other time, if it's not, if it's not August and you're skinning it, I give you a little bit of, a little bit of, and sometimes myself too. I'll be like, you know what, we're going to do it. Yeah, yeah. A little skin. It's funny too, because when you go through buds, did you have wetsuits that had like legs connected to them when you went through buds? No, I don't think so.

We just had shorties. Oh, no, I had like beaver tail. Oh, so that's what we had at first recombatatat. Okay. So when I got the buds, I'm like, dang, they give these students better wetsuits and we got it. What's beaver tail? It's like the back of the wetsuit has like a long tail on it, and it comes up underneath your crows.

And like snaps into position in front of you. It does nothing to hold in any water at all. It's the dumbest invention ever. Whoever invented the beaver tail is an idiot. You would never come up with that plan, right? So because but now they have where the the shirt of the wetsuit is connected to the trunks, which is a whole different ballgame. This is a whole different ballgame. This is a totally different situation. And they get that in buds by the way. You got that in buds. I don't think I've ever worn a wetsuit ever. I can't remember one single time. Interesting. That's the way it is in Hawaii, right? There we down here. Shredding. Anyway, back to our joints.

We don't want to have joint problems. That's another thing, cold water is good for your joints, by the way. That's where you've got to get in that bath. Yeah. In the ice bath. But if you're not going to jump in the ice bath as often as maybe you could, you just keep the what's called joint warfare, super crude oil. Supplement.

Just take the supplement. So you know easy waste. So you don't got to freeze yourself. Vitamin D. Take vitamin D 100%. Take that every day. Yep, I agree. Cold War.

Keep the immunity strong. You can get all this stuff from joccofuel.com. Get some milk too. Yeah. Because let's face it, man. Let's face it. That's a tough one. It's a tough one to not.

Bro, did you see that? Did you, I posted some stakes I had the other day? Yes, I saw that. That looked amazing. Yeah. People people send me steaks Which is like the only like Yeah people send mistakes those were from

They were you know Jack Arnold Jack? Yeah, he's he's a barbecue Yeah yeah he sent those Is that the ones that he always could I think it's maybe I don't know They're cow K-O-W but damn they were good they were good Yeah they're so good even when I got done eating those even when When I got done eating a freaking full on tomahawk steak, I was like, cool, guess what I wanted? A little bit of sweetness.

A little bit of goodness. A little bit, what's that other word? It's like savory. Savory is like steak, right? Yeah, like salty or whatever. Right. And then sweet. What's milk?

It's got both. Well, if you think about it, the real good desserts, the flavors have like a little bit of like savour, like a little bit of. A little bit. Yeah. And then if you think about it, like the good, like, savory has a little bit of sweet, too. And you think about it. So we're talking about milk, basically.

It's hot milk season, by the way. It's, like, there's, having a hot milk in the morning, oh, man. I'm not talking early morning, like, pre-workout. I'm talking nine o'clock in the morning, starting to feel a little bit of hunger. It's a little bit cool outside, hot milk coming at you live. Yeah. And do I throw whipped cream on top of it? that I do

that's still paleo well yeah actually a lot of whipped cream well I don't know about a lot but the one that my wife buys it's actually not that bad for it's actually pretty solid I'm surprised by that keeping it real with that keto I'm very happy with no check did you sell some mold too that's clean protein though by the way we don't really mention that because like sometimes from back in the day or whenever you didn't take milk you take protein shake you got the let's face it

like you get some secondary effects You know, from that, not this one. Negative. No, sir. No, sir. But, no, sir. But, no, sir. But, no, it's not like that anymore.

But yeah, there's that. And then also Jocko White Tea, the old school. If you like tea, hot tea now, obviously. Yep. And if you like deadlifting, by the way. Yes, sir. You don't want that Jock White Tea. That's the one.

But, yep. Yeah, get it all at joccofuel.com. Also, uh, the energy drinks, you already said, right? At Wawa. At Wawa. By the way, I don't know if I'm supposed to talk about this or not yet, but we got, we got some ready to drink milk coming. Oh, yeah, yeah.

And let's just say, I'm not saying that the creators, that the creators deserve a Nobel Prize. I'm not saying that it's definite, but they should be in the contention. They should be mentioned. There should be a mention. When you try these things, yeah. Yeah.

So you're going to be able to, in the future, go into a wall, walk, boom, go straight and just get more on tap, bro. And actually, that makes sense when you think about it because it's not like, when you think about if you spend any time thinking about it, maybe I do, maybe I don't, I don't know, but either way, it's like you can't just, because moke is the powder, right? And then you have your mix.

Like, you know, we'll put in the banana, we'll put in the whatever, right? And it's like this variations of mixes and variations of results. And it makes sense. So it's like, hey, if you're going to drink, they're ready to drink one, you've got to commit to a very specific mix across the board per flavor. You see what I'm saying? So now you got to rely on whoever, expert, I know they're an expert. I'll tell you that.

You ever had something coming to your life that you just, you just came out of nowhere? Like you couldn't have predicted it? Uh, yeah. Let me tell you something. Salted Carmel. I didn't even know what this,

this was not in my world. Never in my world. This idea. Salted Carmel. What is this? Like, what is this? We have a salted caramel version.

I'm actually familiar with a salted caramel. So that one to me. That makes sense. That sounds delicious. All right. So there we go. There you go. Also, origin USA.

This is American-made stuff. Not just any stuff. It's like for real American-made products, jeans, boots, small that's on there. The accessories, I've been going kind of deep on the accessories recently on that website. Pretty impressive. Just getting in there.

Oh, yeah. So, yes, everything from the material all the way to the product, all made in America. Quality stuff, too. If you care about the people and the process. If you care about humanity. Yes, sir. How's that?

Yes, sir. If you care about humanity, go to originusa.com. Because you know what you were talking about? You know what you were talking about earlier, Carlos? You know, seeing people, these people are hard workers. And the first time you work with an echelon front client, you're like, man, these people are working hard. They want to do a good job.

And that's awesome. That's so awesome that we get to experience all these people across the country. But then there's industries. And there's corporations that say, you know what? To hell with those people. To hell with those hardworking people. We're going to offshore this stuff. We're going to put it in slave labor camps.

We're going to give money to communists. That's what we're doing. That's what we're doing. That's what we're doing. We're going to have slave people build this stuff and we're going to give money to communist regimes. That's what we'll do. How does that sound?

And that kind of goes along with that 48 cents like, like, that's what drives you That's what drives it. Yeah. Don't let that, don't let that happen. Go to origin U.S.A. Get your boots, get your jeans. Get your ghee for sure. You have origin gear?

You don't. Roodle. Actually, in a way. No, it's 100% my fault. Yeah. It's 100% my fault. I feel like it's 100% your fault too. But I actually feel bad too because like what we were just,

what I was just talking about something coming into your life, when you put on an origin glee, for real, when you put on an origin ghee, it is for real. you got some other thing coming in your life that you did not expect was a thing. Yeah. There's that. I will take you as soon as we get done recording,

I'll take you can, you can touch one of mine. They're too big for you. I thought he's going to say, I'm going to get you one. We'll get you sorted. No, no, no, no, no.

We can do that too. You can touch my. You can do that too. You can touch one of my origin geese, and you'll be like, what is this? What sort of unicorn fur is this that's been used to create this thing? Because it's a different level, man.

It's a different level. That's what's going to say. I was going to say that's kind of good news in a way for me. So, like, you know, I can kind of like, you know how someone's about to do something really like, whether it be fun or cool or it's going to be real beneficial? And then you get to like experience it with them. You know? You get to share that experience. You get to see that's wild.

It's kind of good news. Can't wait for you. You got origin rash guards. Those are awesome. Yeah. So I do use those. Yeah. Made in America.

Yeah. Just imagine that. Made in America. It's true. Beautiful thing. Go. Also, Jocko's store. It's called Jocko Store.

That's where you can get your discipline equals freedom shirts. The jiu jih Tzu shirt that I noticed that you are representing hardcore, by the way. That freaking thing was legit. Oh, yeah. So there's it, there's kind of a jiu jih Tsu section. Yes. How many shirts are in the jih Tzu section?

Right now, just that one in the team. Limited section, but a section of less. Does it have its own breakout area? Uh, when Dean's shirt comes out, it will.

And he's going to say foot, right? But just like yours is good. It says foot. Actually, that's his technically that's his design right I just saw a sticker someone put a sticker on the gym out here and it's got it's got like an old nom picture of a dude with like a steel pot helmet on in nom American but it's Dean Lister's face and it says foot soldier see we might have to have a Dean Mr. Sex you can go deep with the feet and Dean and that whole thing it's true so there you go but yeah good spot to get this stuff Taco Store where the like I said, Discipline Inc. Freedom, Jiu-Jitsu stuff, good.

That's a good one. You watch the Army Navy game. Yeah. Just face it. Good goes deep. We'll say that. We did appreciate that. And it kind of worked for Navy.

Yeah, apparently. In the assessment fully. Yes, sir. It seemed like it worked out good. The results speak for themselves. But yeah. Also, we have the shirt locker, which is a new shirt every month.

They're separate from the regular store. But it's a new shirt. They're a little bit more creative, I would say. Good. feedback on that one. We got things squared away too by the way. We got one coming out too right there should be a new one coming out pretty soon. Yeah so if I'm not sure what so right now like now if you join you'll get that shirt for that month you know before it was like okay I joined then the next

month your shirt kind of comes but it's all squared and right away all that kind of stuff it's good squared so yeah we got December still going and then yeah January there's another one that's how it works that's what that's what monthly shirt means subscribe to that if you also subscribe to this podcast We got this podcast. We got Jocko Unravelling. We got the grounded podcast. We got the Warrior Kid podcast. We also have Jocko Underground.

Jocco underground.com. We're on there answering questions. Life advice. Life advice. Alternative topics that apply to everything. If you know the way broadly you see it in all things. It also protects us because, listen, we don't know what's going to happen in the world. But we do know that sometimes people,

want to control what you say. They want to control what we say. We haven't run any major issues yet. A couple. We brushed up against a couple. We'd have a couple scenarios unfold. And just in case, just to protect us from that,

we got to have a contingency plan. That's jocco underground.com. Go there if you want to support. It costs $8.18 a month. And we give you this extra podcast. But look, if you can't afford that, it's okay. Email assistance at jocco underground.com.

We just got to have somewhere as an alternative place. to be in case. So that's where we're at. YouTube channel. Yep, we have a YouTube channel. You want to see Oscar Delahoya, Carlos Mendes, how he's handsome.

You're more Jack, though. Thank you. So that would be the telltale sign, I think. If someone runs into you in the street, you're going to be like, dang, that's Oscar Delahua. He's like, yeah, I've been lifting. Yeah, yeah, that's true.

That's true. But, yes, if you want to see what, you know, what he looks like, YouTube channel, video version of this podcast, and excerpt. which is important. Yeah. Also,

check out Origins YouTube channel. Yeah. It's good to know what's happening. For instance, COVID outbreak in Maine. Do you know about that?

I did not know that. Yeah, see? So if you would, you would know about that. COVID outbreak in Maine, we had like 40 people. Oh, yeah, yeah. I did.

Yeah. Okay, yeah. But, which is a bummer. We got people coming back in now, but Black Friday, do you know what that is? Yes, sir.

After Thanksgiving, people go shopping. Yeah, I heard. Yeah. And we saw. We sold a bunch of stuff, which is awesome. And then everyone got sick with COVID or a bunch of people got sick with COVID. So now we're trying to play catch up.

And Pete making moves, trying to make it happen. Yeah. That's a big, like, learning channel, too, when you think about it. Because you can see, like, of course, how the inner workings of American business is. But, like, how they, just like this, just like, and they've done it many times before where it's like an issue will come up and you can see, like, how they'll solve the issue. And it's unique to that specific thing. So it's like, oh, okay, you can kind of, it's like a demonstration. Yep.

Check. Psychological warfare. If you got any moments of weakness, you can overcome them. Press play on your phone. Hit play. Got an MP3 out there. How many tracks? Do you remember?

I think it's seven or nine. I forget. Nine tracks, I'm thinking. Yeah. So nine, give or take, moments or types of moments of weakness. You got coverage for that. Also Dakota Meyer has a company called Flipside Canvas Flipside Canvas.com. Go there, get cool stuff to hang on your wall if you don't have a, if you don't have an elk head to hang on your wall.

Then you can get one of these things as an alternate, alternate thing to hang on your wall. Books, we got some books. Final spin, that just came out. getting freaking awesome reviews, which is crazy. It's crazy to think of something weird and then write it and then people give you cool reviews. Right. Very cool. It's not what you expect.

I have to say that. That's a lot of people that. I wasn't expecting this. In fact, some people go, I wasn't expecting the story to go this way. Again, we're less predictable possibly than, you know, some people might think. Leadership strategy and tactics field manual. the code the evaluation protocol discipline because freedom field manual

weigh the warrior kid one two three and four this is the book to get for all the kids that you know and by the way sometimes people like oh I does it is it appropriate for girls yes girls boys kids get these freaking books for the kids

this is the Christmas season get there's no better gift you can get a kid than these books that's a that's a bold statement Carlos do you think that's a bold statement No better gift. No better gift. I would have to agree.

I grew up with books and loved books. I don't think there's... I don't think there's a better gift you can give a kid than the way the Warrior Kid books. And I got many, many, many kids and parents that will back that up. That aren't me.

Mikey and the Dragons, you can also get that for the little kids. Warning. Little warning. When you read that, to your kids, you might start crying. It's happened before, Echo Charles. No, that was way the worry kid won. Oh, really?

Uncle Jake. Oh, no, okay, when I was making the video, yeah, a little bit. From Mikey the Dragons. Yeah. Getting a little teared up over there. Well, that was you, go ahead. Way of the worry kid, when Uncle Jake, spoiler alert, by the way, when Uncle Jake had to win home.

Yeah. I was kind of sad. Dude, I was laughing. When I read that one story and you were crying, like, really? hard on the podcast. I was crying. That's the thing. He was crying so hard. And he edited it down. People go, do you edit the podcast? I'm like, no, we never edit.

He edited it down. I didn't realize it until later because he was crying and couldn't put a sentence together. It's not true. And then I started laughing so hard and I'm like, bro, you can't break down like this. He's talking about Hawaii 5-0 and he's breaking down.

It was a sad scene is what I was saying. Or a happy scenes. So, warning Mike and the Dragons. Mike catch you off Gaur, If you're feeling emotionally vulnerable, then you might catch you a little bit. So just, you know, stay strong. Stay strong. Stay focused. Don't let yourself break down about face by Hackworth.

Extreme ownership and the dichotomy of leadership. That actually helped your marriage, that attitude. Taking ownership of things. I went back and read the book again, but in a different way. Because the first time I read it, I was like, okay, I want to be a better leader in combat. So that's kind of like the vision I had when I was reading it. And then the second time I'm like, wait a minute, I'm going to read it. from my life, my personal life.

Yeah, that's a good switch. It's such a useful switch where like, because that's a big thing, right, where it's like, oh yeah, these big bad Navy seals, they're going to tell me how to run my daycare center. Like, bro, no way. In real life, no way.

But it's like just like, yes way. Yes, exactly right. Where it's like the Navy C, like all the combat stuff, that's just the example essentially. It's just an example of these principles, like being used in these like situations or whatever. But, and since they, they are useful in everything, if you look at it in the sense of word, this is, they're talking to me for my specific situation and using the battlefield as a metaphor for sure. But they're talking to me for me for my specific situation.

It's like, oh, shoot, everything checks out. Yeah. And as you read things from different perspectives, like, yeah, you can read it from a professional perspective like you did the first time, Carlos. Then you read it from a personal perspective the next time. But then guess what happens? You get promoted. Read it again. You see it from another perspective again.

Then you have a problem where you get moved to a new team and everything's the dynamics are different. Read it again. It's a, you will have a different perspective and you will pick up more things from those books. Also, we have a leadership consultancy. We were just talking about, echelonfront.com. If you want to do any of the things that we talk about on this podcast, if you want to learn to the information, go to eshlamfront.com. It's what we do. We do, look, we do the FTX.

That's one part of it. We also do leadership training that's not experiential. So you're going to sit down, learn with us, but we'll still make it dynamic through role playing and other other methodologies that we have. So if you want to check some of that out, go to Ashlandfront.com. You having fun there, Carlos?

Oh, yeah. It's awesome. I mean, the people that you meet are just amazing as well because, I mean, people that call for extreme ownership are not lazy people. They're people who just want to take it to the next level. So I honestly haven't met a client yet that I just didn't really like.

And it's awesome because you keep in touch with them. Like they hit you up every now and then and they kind of become your friends. Oh, for sure. For sure. I get texts all the times. I get texts from that are like, hey, we just did this.

It's awesome. I'll also get texts like, hey, can I talk to you? And they'll have some situation going on. It's like, all right, what do you got? What do you got? Let's work through this. Hey, we also have an online training academy.

And there's a bunch of reasons why we started that. The biggest reason why we started is because like I was saying earlier about Jiu-jitsu and actually having a skill and getting good at this thing called leadership, well, just like Jiu-Jitsu, you can't go to one class and be like, okay, cool, I'm good now, I know it.

No, it takes repetition, it takes understanding the various angles, it takes expanded knowledge, it takes confronting different scenarios multiple times so you understand how to understand them. You learn to understand how to understand how to understand, understand them. Imagine that. You're looking at a situation. You don't know what to do. You can actually understand how to understand that. So this doesn't happen overnight. That's why we,

that's why we made Extreme Ownership.com and the online training academy. We're on there all the time. There's courses that you can take. You can go live sessions. I'm on there two or three times a week answering questions face-to-face like on a Zoom call it's a Zoom call you want to ask me a question come on there extremeownership.com if you want to check that out if you want to help service members active and retired you want to help their families you want to help gold star families check out Mark Lee's mom mama Lee she's got a charity organization does a ton of incredible stuff for our veterans if you want to donate or you want to get involved go to America's mighty warriors dot orgic actually just heard Joe Rogan talking about hyperbaric chambers

mm-hmm so that's one of the big things that Mama Lee does is she takes service members and gets them hyperbaric chamber treatments for like 30 straight days so good for you so helpful so check that out if you want and if you want more of my just continued droning talking or you need more of echoes just unknown randomness um yeah you can find us on the internet webs on twitter on instagram on facebook i'm at echo charles and i am at joccoquellink echoes at echo charles carlos was was is now on the gram i am carlos underscore mendes underscore 246 that was that was your entry into the social media world, right?

Yeah, I didn't have one in the teams. And when I came on to Eschelon Front, JP told me open one up. So, recommended. It's a whole new world out there. I could watch so many Jitsu videos. That is true. Yeah.

It's funny how they know what you like. It's like, how am I already getting this? Yeah. The whole algorithm thing? Yeah. Like, the algorithm thing, I wrote the other day, fight the algorithm. But the problem is when the jihitsu video start rolling

and it's hard to fight that algorithm. Wait a second. Let me watch that again? Real, kind of embrace. the algorithm in a way in a way it oh look and LinkedIn you're on LinkedIn yeah I am on LinkedIn yeah is that do you do you like participate in LinkedIn because you mentioned it a few times today uh so I had it when I when I was getting ready to transition out of the Navy because that's how I started reaching out to people so yeah I have one of those too yeah I have LinkedIn

too yeah me too so we're on there echo you got any final questions that's it oh actually um so do you think, and I think this may seem like an obvious answer, but so, okay, so when you were growing up, you know, you had it so many chores, like it was like hard, right? Like, so you got used to hard work really quickly, yeah, thoroughly, essentially. Could you feel that like as, you know, you go through like, you know, hard things in combat buds, like all these hard things or whatever, and because you said, you said something kind of interesting where you're like, okay, on the third time, after you got rolled or whatever, the third time, you passed with no, no issues, you said. A lot of people, like buds is like real hard for them.

Did you feel that your work ethic that was established like was the factor that made it like a non-issue? Like could you feel that at the time? Yeah, absolutely. You know, it was crazy. I thought about my stepdad a lot during Hill Week because I thought about how hard he worked. I mean, the man worked nonstop, seven days a week, two jobs.

And when I was going through Hell Week, I thought about him. I was like, you know what? If he can do that, I can do this. Right. This is how I want to provide for myself and my family. Like, yeah. Yeah, that's what I was thinking when you're saying that. Also, it kind of makes you reflect.

Like, you reflect on like someone like your childhood. Then I think, man, I should give my kids more chores. You know what's so weird about Buds is you just never know who's going to make it through. You really don't. And there's some silver spoon people that go through there and crush it. And there's some silver spoon people that wash out day two. And there's some freaking kids that grew up wherever. in a shitty situation working their ass off

and they quit. And there's some kids like that that are awesome. It's so bizarre. It's very bizarre. It's very hard to predict. There is some, like some, oh, if the guy, like they say, if someone wrestled, it's a really good thing

because you have to work really hard in wrestling. That's like an indicator, but it's by no means, oh, he wrestled, he's going to make it. Not at all. Not at all. Not even close. Yeah, it's one of the many factors. One of the many factors.

it might be a little nudge in the direction of, but it's no guarantee. That's that. No, good to see you again. Yeah, likewise. Thank you for having me. Any closing thoughts, Carlos? No, not really.

Just super grateful to be here. I'm grateful to be part of the EF team. It's awesome being around team guys again. Always good, man. Yeah. Awesome. All right, well, hey, man, thanks for coming out today. obviously thanks for your service and the teams

and thanks for what you're doing right now to continue to share the lessons that we learned to help people which is what we're doing just doing our best to help people you have a great way of imparting the messages obviously it's great that you can open up us to open up the tactics and the strategies

and the principles to a whole new audience because you're a fluent Spanish speaker which is awesome it's been awesome to I love watching those videos I'm like because I can understand a little bit of Spanish, you know, and because I took three semesters of it when I was at University of San Diego. And so I can understand it.

I kind of get the vibe, you know? But man, it's freaking cool to watch. So, yeah, man, it's great. I appreciate it. And thanks for holding down the tradition of the teams. And thanks to all the other frogmen out there still in the teams, still keeping the machine rolling on and upholding the standard set by our forefathers. and thanks to all the military personnel out there in every service

for protecting freedom around the world and to our police law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, Border Patrol Secret Service, all of their first responders, including your wife, Carlos. Thanks for protecting us here at home. And everybody else out there,

the machine will roll on. The world's going to carry on without us that's the reality it would be arrogant to think otherwise but at the same time we can make a difference you can help someone you can teach someone you can inspire someone you can make your part of the world a little bit better and you do that by going out there every day and getting after it and until next time this is carlos and echo and jocco Out.