Jocko Podcast - 32: Privileged People, Leading Women Teams, Discipline Equals Financial Freedom, Does Micromanaging Ever Work?

Episode Date: July 20, 2016

0:00:00 - Opening 0:01:04 - Loving and respecting privileged people who have less toughness and adversity in life. 0:09:41 - Thoughts on Enson Inoue BJJ Belt Demotion. 0:33:34 - Dealing with trainees saying they haven't been trained properly. 0:40:35 - Are there differences in leading women teams VS leading men teams? 0:46:15 - Using the "GOOD" philosophy while avoiding Pollyannaism. 1:00:15 - Favorite Podcasts and why. 1:28:01 - Discipline Equals Freedom in regards to financial life. 1:37:45 - Does micromanaging ever work? 1:43:16 - Keeping focus on the "long war."  Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko Podcast number 32 with Echo Charles and me, Jocco Willink. And since Jocko Podcast number 31 went long with the very heavy and dark book, we decided to end that one and not do any Q&A, which means that today we have 100% Q&A for the troops. And obviously this comes from, the questions come from you all that are listening. Mostly on Twitter and

on Facebook is where I get these questions from. So thanks to everyone for submitting these questions so that we can answer them for you. Echo, good evening. Good evening. All right. First question.

I want to say I like this first question a lot. It's a good question. Yeah. Anyway. Echo approves of the first question. I approve most questions for sure. Okay, first question. How does one who grew up in the ghetto, quote unquote,

involved with gangs, drugs, witnessing murders, and all that good stuff, overcome that mentality where your guard is always up. Come from a family of immigrants and growing up really poor. We had to make a lot of sacrifices and as I get older I feel that

that in some of these ways, in some ways this affects my daily life. I'm proud of my beginnings and I cherish my mistakes, but still, even in my senior year in college, I feel some resentment towards these privileged kids who seem like they have it all. I really find it hard to get along with them because in a way I see them as weak. Because they haven't suffered through hard times or have to struggle as a minority. What should I do to learn to love them and respect them as equals? Yeah, that is a good question. I definitely have seen people go through that mentality

where they're having that attitude. And I'll tell you, when I was a kid, I actually had a girlfriend when I was a kid, this girl. And she, you know, and her friend was my friend as well. So we were all kind of friends. And one of the girls, one of the things that she said, which I thought was brilliant, and she said,

uh, everybody has a hard luck story. Like, no matter, you go and talk to somebody, they had their struggle that they went to, went through. And,

you know, whether it was divorce, whether it was abuse, whether it was money struggles, whether there was fighting in the house, whether it was jail, whether there was drugs, whether it was alcoholic or workaholic

or whatever, whatever situation you've been in, everybody's got a hard luck story or something. and that challenged them. And it might not be really obvious on the surface. I mean, you know, for instance, this question here, the fact, the way that the question is phrased, you can hear he's talking about the things that we, you know, he said family

of immigrants growing up really poor, we had to make a lot of sacrifices, right? So right there, right there, you can see that he's got a certain amount of familial pride. and he's talking about his family as we and a group of being together. And, you know, that might not be money. That might not be expensive clothes, but that's an incredibly powerful thing. You're incredibly lucky to have that. Now, you tell me who's more, who has a tougher challenge? The person that grows up in a tight-knit family where everyone sticks together and

everyone makes sacrifices together, or the kid who grows up whose dad makes a ton of money, dad's never home. Dad chooses, literally chooses work over the family. And how does that affect the kid's personality? You know, I mean, the kids can come from any background and end up in really tough situations with drugs, alcohol, addiction, whatever, that came from really good circumstances or really bad circumstances. It doesn't even matter.

You can come from both. So that's part one. Part one is like, you know, you don't know what kind of struggles other people have been through. They might have been, they might be a 22 year old senior in college driving a BMW that has more demons in their life than you do. So it's, it's a little bit arrogant to walk around and think that your demons are worse than anybody else's demons. You just don't, you just don't know what their demons are. Now, on top of that, if you just want to look at like the privilege, the monetary side of it,

I promise you that despite the fact that you grew up in a ghetto and your family had to make sacrifices, there are people that you're the privileged kid. Because you get some kid that grew up in South America or some kid that grew up in Africa. That, you know, you think you had it tough? They didn't have a house. They got, you know, political strife in their city. They watched their parents get killed, whatever. So you're a privileged person. somebody else so let's keep that in mind as well and once again you don't know

what that looks like you don't know what kind of struggles people have been through so let's just try and I'll use the term judge let's try and judge people not on what they are but on who they are as a person and you know for me you you know you talked about the the minority thing it to me I don't care about race color creed know that stuff matters to me I don't care about socio-economic background None of that stuff matters to me. I don't judge you on that. You know why?

Because in the military, in the seal teams, the good seals came from every background. Every one of those backgrounds. The bad seals came from every one of those backgrounds. There was kids that grew up rich with a silver spoon in their mouth. They were awesome seals.

There were kids that grew up in the ghetto and their parents were gangbangers. Awesome seals. Same as reverse is true. There was kids that grew up with a silver spoon in their mouth and went to a private school, and they were horrible seals. And there was kids that grew up gangbangers, and they were horrible seals. So it doesn't matter.

What matters is not what you are. It's who you are as a person. So I, yeah, I'm not going to, I'm not going to judge. And in fact, if I always get to name some negative traits that do bother me, it's one of them would be judging people based on, you know, stereotypes, judging people judging the book by its cover. If you're doing that, that's a negative. You know, that is a weakness.

So just check yourself and realize that you don't know what people's backgrounds are. You don't know what goes on behind closed doors. You don't know what tough situation people have been through. And judge them, not based on that stuff, just judge them on who they are as a person. Yeah. Yeah, Philly. And I think this kind of helps. You know how let's say like, let's say you're in a boat, right?

like a rowboat, and you're all trying to get upstream, and you have all different kinds of people, and then you have weaker people, and you have stronger people. And the strong person, whether it's by his choice or not, he's strong, he can, you know, he's been working out, I don't know, he's in shape, he can roll a lot. So he went through all this sacrifice, but at the end, he's a stronger person. So you can look at it in a way where you now have the power. So be responsible with your power, like to help. So you have to, it's like you have a bigger burden,

but you have to embrace that, not burden, but you have a bigger workload because you're more prepared for it in life. Yeah, and actually speaking to that, so now that means that you have the power to give people knowledge and perspective on what you've been through. And that's important. Now there's two ways to do that. We talk about this all the time.

If I go up to you, Echo, and I say, hey, you don't know what you're doing, let me show you the correct way to film this. Let me show you the correct way to use this microphone. How would you feel about that? I don't know if I would like that. No, no, of course you wouldn't. If I came up to you and said, listen, you don't know what it's like to struggle.

Are you going to be open to hear what I'm about to say? No, you're not. No one is. No one is. But if I said, hey, man, it's really good to meet you. Oh, and then we start to develop a relationship. You know, it's one thing that we got to remember is what it's like for maybe some people. You know, when I was growing up, I had to deal with this.

Oh, okay. now your mind is open to it. You start learning. You start growing yourself. So by not being arrogant and by being humble and thinking that you have, you may have been through worse things than me or whatever the case may be, we're actually going to make each other better. And that's the goal here. So you just got to stay humble on these things. And it'll be, it'll work out better for you in the end.

It will absolutely work out better for you in the end. judge people by the content of their character, I believe, is a way of putting it that makes a lot of sense to me. Next question. Joko and Echo. How do you guys feel about the Ensign Inouye situation, demoting yourself after time off the mat? So this was a pretty interesting question, and there's a guy named Insin Anoy. And he's a, he's a old school jujitsu guy, old school MMA guy. And he's a black belt in jiu-jitsu, but he fought in UFC, he fought in pride. He was the Shudo champion.

He's just a really old school kind of OG. From Hawaii, by the way. From Hawaii. And just a really well-respected guy as a fighter. And a guy that, you know, his, he, he, he, he, he, he, he. He kind of had that warrior ethos that people talk about, you know, where he would say, look, I'm, I would rather die in this fight than lose. And he meant it.

And so he's been, but he moved to Japan. He's of Japanese heritage and he moved to Japan a long time ago. I mean, I want to say 10 or maybe 15, maybe even longer. Yeah, I think longer. Yeah. A long time ago, he moved back to Japan. He's, you know, that's where he's kind of built his life is in Japan. And along the way, I think his last fight was maybe, maybe eight to ten years ago, was his last fight.

And since then, you know, there was the horrible earthquake and the tsunami in Japan. And he did work as sort of a charity to raise money and help out those victims. So that's what he's been focused on. He's been focused on I guess his family and whatever else but in that time He he he he he strayed off the mats of justice He stopped the training and and so you know he had other things going on in his life and he stopped training I don't recommend anybody stop training and But for whatever reason he he he stopped training and he stopped training and I saw a little interview with him as he was talking about this

He stopped training for like 10 years 10 years of no and he he he he he he he he he said no training he just was stopped training and now oh you know he's because he's a jiu jitsu guy eventually jiu jitsu gets back in your brain and he started getting back on the mats and when he got back on the mats he felt that he didn't deserve to be a black belt anymore and it wasn't just because he was his timing was off or he was out of condition he felt like jiu jitsu had had changed and he's right in the last 10 years jiu jih Tzu has changed a lot. And you know what? Yesterday jiu jitsu changed a lot. And the day

before, I mean, jih Tjitsu changes every day. Every day it changes. I'm shocked. Dean will come up with some new thing. Dean's very, very good at coming up with new things. And he comes up with a new thing. Like something I

neither one of us had thought of. He probably does that once or twice a month. He comes up with this new thing. I might do it once every three to six months maybe or I go okay I found something new and I'm all excited and Dean goes well no just put your hips over there and then it'll be so it's it's just one of those things that it changes and so ensign got on the mat again and said oh I don't I don't think I deserve to be a black belt right now and so he demoted himself back to the purple belchi and so people so the question is

how do I feel about it oh and by the way since this question got asked He actually repromoted himself back to Black Belch. So, and how did that go down? That was John, he talked to his instructor that gave him the Black Belt, right, John Lewis? From what I understand, I didn't read as much into that part of it. I was mainly just reading other people's takes on it, you know, like their reaction. Which you didn't go to the source material? Always go to the source material.

About the concept more. Always go to the source material. Anyway, I'm not. But he had a conversation with John. Louis and John Lewis said what was the overall do you know what he said well whatever he said I I did go to the source material there you go and but I don't want to quote it exactly but John Lewis basically said look you deserve a black belt oh and you know what he said he said look someone that's a doctor that became a doctor and then that's not practicing but then they want to get back in the field

they don't not become a doctor right they just go and learn the new techniques and get refreshed They don't have to take their doctor tag off their door. And he said, you're a doctor of Jiu-Jitsu. You just got to get refreshed with the new techniques and get back into it. And Ensign said, okay. You know, he agreed with it, and he promoted himself back to Black Belt. So, you know, again, I think from my perspective, I say good for him. I think both those actions I agree with.

I think it's actually pretty cool that he demoted himself. and said, you know what, I don't, I haven't been in the game. I got out of the game and I don't deserve to be a black belt right now. So I'm not going to put it on. I'm disgracing the black belt. But I also see the mind flip of, hey, you know what? I fought and trained for a giant portion of my life.

And I have innate knowledge that got me the black belt. And now I need to get back in the game, but I'm still a black belt. I really respect Ensign. I think he's a guy with a lot of heart and pride. And I respect his decision. I think it's pretty simple from my perspective. Yeah. Yeah.

Man, it's one of those things where when you hear someone make a good point about one side of the whole deal, you're like, oh, yeah, that's true. And then you see someone else making, when I saw it, I was like, dang, that is good. he that is so humble and he and he's really keeping it real he's like i'm not a black belt i'm going i think i'm a purple belt there here's where i am and then um chris hauter who's um he's you know one of the original ogy guys and brother that guy is smart um he he said essentially kind of the same thing as john lewis where what do you say it's kind of the same thing where you you know jiu jizzo

changes juzzi doesn't be changing whether you're doing it or not yeah and you earned it you're the black belt you know your instructors um you know recognize you as a black belt you are a black belt regardless. And just because you jump back on the wave of jujitsu and maybe weren't as good at surfing, you know, you're still, you're still that black belt. You just got to, like how you said, you just got to get refreshed with all the new techniques if you want to, you know, be up to this. And he said it way more eloquently than that, obviously.

But, man, reading now is like, dang, he's right, man. But he did say that it's like, it's kind of like false humility, which I dig pretty much everything Chris Hutter has to say about you to, but I couldn't really get there as far as me feeling that it was false in any way. No, yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't think so either. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't feel that, you know, whether or not I understood exactly what Chris was saying. Yeah, I guess I could see what he's saying, where he could come to that conclusion a little

bit, but I don't, I don't agree with that piece of it. I don't, because to me, it's actually, hey, look, guys, I don't think there's anything false about saying, hey, I am not. good enough to be a black belt right now. So therefore I'm putting on, I think I'm about purple belt level. I know what it feels like to be a black belt and I don't feel like one right now. Yeah.

I think that makes sense. Yeah. I mean, it does to me too. But ultimately, I think it's it's however you, and I think your instructors have a lot to do with it as well, however you want to see it.

You know what I mean? Because there is a lot to be said for someone who will do that because a lot of guys they get their black belt and they're gone. They'll be like, hey, and some guys do it if they get their brown belt. Yeah. I'm gone. I'm a brown belt. It does happen sometimes, but it shouldn't happen at all.

What? Guys get their black belt and then stop training. Right. I know a few guys like that. But, you know, so it's like, hey, I got my black belt. And I'm not saying they chose to do that all the time. Yeah, the thing that's weird about that. The thing that makes that surprising is that it takes a lot of dedication to get your black belt.

And the only way you can have that much dedication is if you actually enjoy training jujitsu. And if you don't enjoy. training jihitsu then you go get your black belt why would you stop training that doesn't make sense to me it's kind of like the the fact that people talk about going through seal training and they say oh do you really if some if you just if you if you if you think if you can make it through if you don't want to make it through if you don't truly want to make it through then guess what you're you're probably not going to make it through and it's the same thing with jih Tzu if you don't really enjoy it if you're doing it just for the black belt it's kind of it's kind of hard to do it

just for the black belt. That's my point. Just like if you're going to go through seal training just to get your seal trident and just to claim, hey, I'm a Navy SEAL. If that's the only reason that you're doing it, it's going to be hard for you to get through. Right. So I would imagine anywhere, I would guess that it wasn't their only reason, but let's just say either that was a big reason to begin with or just over time that started to be the reason.

You know, I mean, people can fall in and out of that mindset and that trap, you know, where it's like I just want that belt. I want to walk around and be known as a, black belt or whatever and then that mindset starts to just creep in their mind and it becomes like a major part of their thinking so it's like dang this works especially when frustration comes in and life that's that's one of the kind of cool things about no ghee and the idea that and and everyone gives belts now with no ghee I mean Dean gives belts with no ghee I mean I support giving belts with no gey even though guy never wears a guy and he doesn't need a belt but you know say oh this guy's a black

belt but one thing that is cool about no ghee and kind of especially during the during the rogue years of no-gee where it wasn't a thing yet and we were just doing it and there were guys at the time that were only Didn't you start off training only no-gey? Yeah, there were guys that only trained no-gee. So it was really a real thing of the belts literally didn't matter because they didn't exist and then it was just how good are you? Where do you fall out on the totem pole of? I can tap you. You can't tap me, but this guy can tap me and I you know what I mean? There was something pretty cool about that because belts for me have never been a goal or anything um really to me to me i just wanted to be better at that the jiu jitsu yeah i mean but regardless that is a part of it for a lot yeah a lot yeah for some people's thinking so i think with that way of thinking i think i think he can be like that they'll get a black belt and be like oh finally now i get to focus on my career yeah i'm a black belt and i would the other important

thing about this is like don't stop training jiu jitsu like don't just stop cold turkey man that's not good. Even if you can only train a couple times a week or once, even if you train once a week, man, train once a week. You know, just to keep your head in the game, keep your, at least you can see the new moves, you can see where things are developing. Maybe that'll ignite your desire to get

back on the map more, but don't stop training, you know? And even on the days when you don't want to, there's one day when you don't want to train, go train that day. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Go train that day. What it does too, a big part of it is, it keeps your body in tune with the jiu-jitsu movement.

This is the general movement because that's what one of the things that Ensign said where he was like, my body wasn't moving the same. It wasn't moving. And it's one thing to be like, okay, I'm getting older. I'm less mobile. Negative. Jiu Jitsu movement. Yeah, we don't know anything about that. But Jiu Jitsu movement, there's a certain kind of movement that develops just kind of naturally, you know, when you're rolling all the time.

And if you lose that, 10 years, I could see you lose that. So it's like, dang, my hip escape is really labored right now. And it's hard to do when it's so easy to do normally, you know. So, you know, I can understand. I see that, you know. But, yeah, that's what you do is. Anything that you're doing. Like any, you know where you find this also is people that are in business that whatever,

whatever level they advanced out of, they, they then, let's say it's a, they move out of a technical position and they move up to a management position. Don't just walk away completely from the technical side. Like, just go, go do it once a week. Go get in the game. make sure that you still understand so that you stay so that you stay in the game. Yeah. And you don't lose. You don't wake up because you were a black belt.

That's why you got promoted above into a management position. You were a black belt on that technical side and they saw potential for you. So when you walk away from it or when you move up, don't just walk away completely, stay in the game. Go do, you know, if you're in the military, just because you got promoted to whatever a company commander or a staff guy on the battalion, don't you say, well, I'm never going to go in the killhouse again. No, no, no, no. Go in the killhouse. Even if you can only do it once every week or maybe once a month, you just get to go and keep your head in the game.

You've got to do that. So you stay fresh. You stay. Like you said, you keep that mental game there. Whereas if you just walk away, and when I would have guys that were senior to me come out and go through little blocks of training with us, maybe they come out and go to the killhouse with us for a day. They didn't know what they were doing. They didn't know what they were doing. part of it was because they walked away for too long

but even when they didn't know what they were doing you were still like hey man good for him for coming out you know it wasn't like you said oh look at him he doesn't know I don't respect him no you're actually actually the opposite is true you'd say oh man props props to the boss here for coming out and getting after it with the boys for a day yeah he doesn't know what he's doing but maybe we can help him and if they had that mentality the whole time

because it's pretty it's a lot easier to maintain a skill than it is to learn it yeah so all you have to do you're a black belt man get on the mat once a week you know just just get in there and roll with some people, roll them up. Yeah, but back to Ensign, I dig it either way. I even dig it that he did it and then really took some peer review.

And it was like, hey, I maybe didn't look at it this way. It was an open-minded decision-making process for him. Yeah, he went back in, went to the source to his instructor. Yeah, we support that one big time. We went back to the instructor and he was like, hey, and he was like, yes, sir, you know, that's kind of where it all came from and he went back to Black Belt.

Even that, I can't help, but respect you know whole situation and what if this is like a whole side note what if what if you go like who gave you your black

Fabio right no Dean Lister Dean okay so let's say you took 10 years off you came back and rolled with Dean and Dean was like bro I am your instructor I'm taking your belt

I'm giving you a purple belt that would be awesome but like is that is that cool like you know as far as like can you do that or what I do how do you feel about that I don't know, but that would be very cool to see that happen. Even just, even just, oh, you want to hear an old school story?

An old school jih Tzu story? Of course. Okay. This is awesome. So back in the day, back in the day, I was a blue belt. Dean was, I think Dean was a blue belt too. He might have been a purple belt. And there was another person that was a blue belt at the time.

My wife. Your wife was a blue belt. It was a blue belt. And she was good. She's a really good athlete. Is that how you met your wife? No. No.

She was, I imposed jiu-jitsu upon her once we were married. So, you know, it was all good. And we were training with Fabio and Fabio's, you know, Fabio's great instructor.

And we were at the academy one day. And there's a guy from out of town in, right? And he's a purple belt. So, you know, purple belt, you know, you figure the guy's good. This is back in the day, too. This is in the mid-night. So probably like 90, I'll see 96.

And so this guy comes in from out of town. And, you know, there wasn't that many jih Tzu schools. In San Diego, there was like two, right? It was that. It was Fabio. There was Rodrigo. I think that was it at the time. So anyways, this guy comes in.

He's probably 35 years old, probably 150 pounds, purple belt. So, you know, we're rolling. And we're a little bit like, okay, the guy's a purple boat. Um, but there's that attitude of the guys know the guy knows what he's doing. So I didn't roll with them, but I'm watching him. I'm rolling with Dean. We're doing our thing and it's kind of the open mat period. And, and Fabio has him roll with my wife.

And so my wife, you know, she's good. She's, but she's a, they're rolling. And he gets her in a choke. He gets her in a rear naked choke. And she buries her chin like a white belt, of like a defense, you know, I'm gonna bury my chin so he's not gonna choke me. He chokes her face.

Like, I'm talking, legit, gets after it on her face. And she starts crying. And a little bit of blood. Oh, dang. And she, oh, okay. So I'm just like, and so I hear her scream or whatever,

and then, and then, you know, she gets up and he lets go and he's kind of like, oh, sorry, blah, blah, blah. and Fabio looks at me, he goes, and the guy didn't know this my wife. Fabio goes, Fabio goes,

Jaco, you roll with him now. And I go, okay. So even I, I was like, okay, I'm going to smash him, but I didn't intentionally, like, assault him. I just smashed him. I mean, I crushed him and submitted him,

but I didn't, like, break his arm. and but I smashed him and I was doing a lot of knee and stomach at the time so I was just driving you know it was like an early version of the park bench I had knee in his neck and we're smashing him and and then I get done and I wore him out pretty good and Fabio was like now I will roll with you and Fabio tore him up and was like cracking arm bars on him and choking him and choking him and smashing him. And then the guy's like, the guy's like broken down. And Fabio is, Fabio said, you're not a purple belt.

And I can't remember if he took his purple belt, but he kicked him out. And he said, don't ever come back here. And you're not a purple belt. And I think he took his purple belt and said, you're not a purple belt. No. You know, he also said, one thing I remember him saying is like, this girl's been training here for two and a half years. She's never been hurt.

She's never had a problem. You come in here and hurt this girl. you're not a purple belt you don't know what you're doing give me a purple belt yeah so that was a cool demotion yeah courtesy of fabio santos old school jiu jutsu right there son yeah dang yeah that's um yeah that's um yeah different situation though yes it is a different situation but but i think i i don't know maybe we need to see more demotions in jiu jitsu that's that's a possibility maybe maybe i need to get started on that demote myself right now so all right that's awesome but yeah yeah man old school Jitsu Fabio. Yeah, but it's kind of interesting though, right? Because that kind of falls in the same way,

like in the same line is, is that acceptable for a professor to demote their student if they lost a step? Or once you earn that, that black belt or whatever the belt is, once you earn it, it's like you paid those dues. Yeah. That's, you know, it's a hard. It's a tough one, is it? Yeah, yeah. Interesting. I don't know. I think, I think I might be wrong in terms of the way people view it. But I, I think demotion is kind of cool. I think more demotions need to happen. Like, oh, you haven't been coming to the gym for two years? Cool, give me your brown belt.

You know what I mean? Hey, man, sorry, you know? Yeah. No one's ever going to come to my academy. Yeah, I know. I would say that that could be the case if the reason, like, if you're, if you're this highly competitive philosophy type team where you, if you go out in a tournament, you have to represent and that was the culture real rigid like that then yeah but you know jiu jitzu for life

you know you can take 10 years off jiu jitsu is kind of part of you or whatever you were awarded this belt through your time and efforts and stuff like that then it's like now i got to worry about all my time and effort yeah that would scare people off that they go like i don't want to go back because i don't want to get demoted yeah exactly now i got a dude i got to earn it back yeah but like i said if there was a job that you had to do basically it's like if you have a job to do as a brown belt. You have to represent, you know, like in a company or something. You can't be the director of sales.

Get that job and then now your performance sucks. You know, you can't because you have a job to do. But like I said, Jiu Jitsu is not really a job where. I don't know. I mean, when you're a brown belt in a school, you have to go and help train the other people. That's part of your job, right? Yeah, yeah.

You have to show up and train with me. Right. Yeah, for sure. And, yeah, if you're violating some, you know, some ethics or something like that, And I mean, even then you don't really take away the belt. You take away their whole, like get out of here. But I think, so the bottom line is, although I think demotions would be cool, I don't think

it's probably going to happen. And I think that the, I think that's tradition. Because although I do believe, I think demotion is a good idea, I also do like some of the traditional aspects of jihitsu. And one of the traditional aspects is when you get a belt at your belt. Yeah, you did it. You put it all that time, all that effort, all that knowledge, you know. All right, you get to keep your belt, people.

Barely. But here's the thing I think that's interesting about it. You know what's funny is at the gym I will shout out things like, like, take that guy's, take his brown belt. Like if a purple belt is really doing good against a brown belt, I'd be like, take his brown belt from him, do it. Yeah, or, yeah, or you get it. I'm kind of an instigator sometimes. Yeah, and I like that. I like that that's part of our fun culture where you can say, or if you roll with it, let's say like, I'll do this with like my friends or whatever.

They're a brown belt and it's, you know, same belt as you and you get them. and you get them like kind of easy or with a new move or something that's real flashy or something, you take their belt and say like you don't deserve that right now. You know, we're going to roll in your camera or a belt, you know, but it's a joke, you know what I mean? But I think that that's kind of what's in our minds anyway. So let's say a guy rolls in, he's a brown belt and he's getting smashed or whatever by like purple belts. Yeah, that's one of the best things about Jiu-Jitsu is that the belt, it doesn't really mean anything.

Right. Because if you're a black belt and you come in there getting smashed by blue belts, no one's sitting there thinking, wow, he's a black belt. They're thinking, no, there's something wrong with him. Yep, exactly right. He's no black belt here. Yeah. So that's one of the best things about Jitsu is the truth is on the mat.

So I guess it doesn't, you don't need to get demoted. Right. Your mere existence is a demotion if you're not, if you're not training. Right. So like it goes back to what I was saying, where you put in all that time, because really the belt is based on specific things. And those things, if you've done those things, you've taken the time is one of them, the knowledge, the, you know, understanding of all this stuff. Basically all that the belt is based on, that doesn't really go away.

You put in that time. You have that knowledge, you know. All right. I think Echo's scared I'm going to take his belt away. Or maybe I'll take your belt away. Bring it. Hey, there's going to be about a 45-second break in the podcast right now. Pretty much seconds.

Anyway. All right. Next question. Dead horse. Go. Chaco. What do I say to someone? I've trained and later claims this person claims that a certain thing was not covered in the training

in addition to the question says obviously excuses. Obviously excuses. So this is a really pretty common question of how do you handle these situations? And I've actually been lucky enough in my life to have run a lot of training into a lot of different situations, mostly in the military. And I've absolutely had this happen. and there's one thing that I do when this happens, and you can probably guess what it is. I take ownership of it.

So check it out. If somebody comes to me and says, oh, you were supposed to train us on X, and you didn't. And I know that I did, and it was in the curriculum, and we covered it.

I say, I don't say, no, I trained you in it, and here it is. No, I say, okay, let's get it trained then.

What do I got to do? Here it is. Let me redo the curriculum. Let me show it to you again. Because here's the thing, as a trainer, It's not just your job. And this is what I used to tell my guys when I ran training.

The guys that were the instructor cadre, I'd say, listen, it isn't your job just to run the training, just to provide the training. It is your job to ensure that the training is absorbed. That's the difference. That's a big difference between philosophies of training. My goal when I'm training someone is to make sure that the training is absorbed into the mind. Otherwise, go watch a YouTube video because a YouTube video, you can see the same. instruction but no I need to seek you out and say okay where did you miss it where and also where did I fail in my training if I covered it why don't you

remember it yeah that means I didn't cover it well enough I didn't teach it well enough and I think that you you then you retrain them you get them up to speed at some point they're gonna realize that you did train them I mean if they truly forgot or even if they didn't forget but they're just placing the blame on you they're going to realize that you know. They're going to know that you know that you trained them when you reflect on the same information and do it again. So I think it's a pretty simple answer.

When someone is saying you haven't trained them, take responsibility for it, take ownership for it, and say, okay, let me get you trained on it. My apologies, I'm here to train you, let me make sure that I train you and make sure that you absorb it. Let's go. I think that your way of training

should be done or performed with kids as well, like parents with their kids. You know how, because you know how the kids, the kids misbehaving. And the parents are like, I don't know why he does that. I told him not to pitch a fit.

Well, yeah, I know you probably told him, or you went through the motions of telling them or whatever, but man, you got to train them and make sure that's absorbed, you know? Absolutely. So,

and I always kind of think of it this way, not kind of, I really think of it this way, where, If your kid is misbehaving, it's something you did or didn't do. Of course. So you can't really sit there and be like, oh, blaming the kid for misbehaving or whatever. Yeah.

You know, you're right. I wonder, isn't it weird that you can have families where one kid can go to, go to high school and do well and do great on their SATs and get to a great college and go to be a doctor and the other kid can become a heroin addict? Yep. Isn't that strange? It's interesting, but I, and I think a long time ago I would talk to you about this, like a long time ago. And how do we blame the parents? Well, that's the thing. That's not what I'm saying.

I'm not saying, blame the parents. I'm not saying that because if you're blaming them, that's like saying it's so easy. Why don't you do that? I blame me, you know, kind of thing. It's not easy. There's so many different dynamics to every kid's experience. So, you know how, and this is how the conversation kind of, if I remember correctly, kind of started when you were like, hey, I have, you know, four kids or whatever and they're just different.

They are. True. Then I said, this is before I had kids, by the way. So you weren't really feeling what I was. Yeah. You didn't, you didn't really care about that. Well, not to say you didn't care. So what you said?

Anyway, I said, okay. Yeah, it's kind of complicated. So, uh-oh. Kids are different. Yeah. But they're not just different. Like, that's not it. It's nature and nurture.

Yes. Yes. Yes. fully. So consider every kid's starting point is different. So you can't expect every kid's ending point to be the same, even though they go through the same experience. True. Just being the second born, you're starting out as a completely different human being.

Right. Just being two years, one year, five years, younger than your older brother. So those minor variables end up creating some major differences. Yes, of course. So at certain points in development, they're going to have kind of the, the same needs, but in a different environment. So the way that you fulfilled those same needs with the first kid are going to look different as far as them being translated with the second kid and the third kid and the fourth,

you know, however many kids you have. So you'd have to make slight adaptations to what you did to the second kid than the first. And to keep a handle of all those dynamics is, it's hard. So that's why it's like, it's not that easy. Not only that, it's not an exact science. Yeah. And the way kids react, way people, it's not just, we're not just, we're not just, we're not just talking about kids here. We're talking about people.

Because you get different people that you hire at different times or different people that join platoons at different times and they have a different attitude. So yeah, you got to adjust. But the, bottom line is the thing that remains constant through all this is that if you're trying to impart knowledge on people, you need to take responsibility not just for showing them the knowledge, but to making sure that they absorb the knowledge. And the primary methodology of doing that is by explaining to people why they're doing what they're doing and why you're telling them this and why this occurs. So if like you said,

you tell your kid don't have a temper tantrum and then you never explain to them, here's why you don't want to have a temper tantrum. When you're doing this, you could hurt yourself, you could hurt other people, you're going to do things that regret,

you're going to break something in the house. I can't control you. I can't bring you anywhere if you're going to act like this. That means we can't go out and have fun. So you've got to explain why. Right. And once you explain why,

then people have a better chance of absorbing the information. But yes, you as a trainer, parent, leader, teacher, has the responsibility not just to impart knowledge, but to ensure that the knowledge is absorbed. Yeah. Rant complete.

Well, and of course, like I said, it's for parenting, it's not, like, just that easy, you know? No, parenting is very difficult leadership situation. So it's really a lot like Plinko. Really? Consider it. You know what I mean? You start at a different point and all these variables.

Well, but yeah, there you go. So, next question. In the SEAL teams, you led all male teams. Any leadership difference in the business world with mixed gender or female teams? So, first of all, in the military, I did work with women. There's no women in the SEAL teams, but there's women that are in Intel. There's women that are in logistics. There's women in some of the logistics support units that go out in the field sometimes.

So definitely worked with women in the military and in the civilian sector with with echelon front. I've worked with all kinds of women, all kinds of women in every level from CEOs on down to frontline troopers. And here's the deal for me. It's no factor. No factor to me. What's a factor to me is can they do their job? Do they have an open mind? Are they humble?

Do they treat people with respect? Those are the kind of things that I'm. judging. It's like what we talked about earlier. I'm judging, but I'm not judging based on what they are. I'm judging on who they are and who they are as a person. So that's, I see no real difference. The leadership, the way that you lead doesn't change. In my opinion, from the women I've seen in leadership positions to the men I've seen in leadership positions, the way they lead is successful because the way they lead, not because they're male or female.

And, you know, some of the stereotypes that you might see out there, like, for instance, men are tougher than women, or men or women are more emotional than men. That's just garbage. And if you see, I've seen, at least when you get to a leadership position, I've definitely seen women that were way tougher than guys were. in terms of, hey, we got to make this move for the company. Here's what I'm going to do.

Boom, they execute it. And I've seen men that were way too emotional attached to this scenario and ruin it because they're just way more emotional than the stereotypical woman might be. So that's why I just don't think you can trust them. I look at a person, not whether they're man or woman. I'm looking at the content of their character for the second time. I'll say that today, MLK. And now, when we start talking about combat,

There's some physical differences that make a definite impact and I talked about on Tim Kennedy if you want to hear me talk about that Because Yeah, when you get into some physical things men are stronger than women and so there's a there's some physical limitations there But in terms of leadership capabilities in this in the civilian sector There's yeah, I'm not I'm not I'm not worried about men and women Do yeah? Okay, are there some nuances there? There are? There are new, for instance, one you'll hear is, I'll get asked, you know, I'm a female and I'm in charge of these guys, you know, how should I act or what should I do?

Because they might not like working for a girl. And I say, that guy probably wouldn't like working for a guy either or for a younger guy or for a guy that got moved from another department. It's the same thing. It's the same thing. It's the same thing I always say, be humble, listen to what they have to say, keep an open mind. going to do regardless male female whatever it just older younger doesn't matter you want it the being

a good leader the principles don't change that's all there is to it yeah because yeah because in as an insecure guy getting getting led or or or a girl calling shots or

whatever will affect them but like how you said if they if their leadership principles are sound yeah doesn't matter they're making the right call it's going to be obvious that that that guy's messing up or you know like he's acting out of insecurity

or not acting out of insecurity it's going to be obvious the leadership part as long as that sound you're going to have success yeah yeah so yeah that's no factor to me

next question maybe I should bring some of the female leaders that I've worked with on the podcast You know, the problem with that is They're no different than the male leaders of work Because I'm sure that there's some women Listen to listen this and they go, oh, you don't know how hard it is when X

Oh, you don't know I have, but that's what I'm saying like the good Female leaders I've worked with have been like oh yeah, that can be sometimes a problem because I'm a woman and here's what I do to negate it Because guess what the next day I'll be working with a different client and it's a man and he goes well, you know I have to deal with X and this is how I mitigate it So everyone's dealing with X everyone's got some factor that they're trying to overcome. And it's just a good leader will find a way around that factor or find a way to mitigate that factor and a bad leader won't and will then use that factor as an excuse rather than just as an advantage.

You know, there's a huge difference between taking ownership of these problems and saying, oh, you know what, here's the issue. Okay, I'm going to own that and I'm going to take care of it. I'm going to find a way around it. Instead of saying, oh, I'm younger, I'm older, I'm a woman, I'm a man trying to lead these ones. It's like, no, you're a human leading another human being. And so step up and lead, figure out what the issues are, and overcome them.

Yeah. Jockel. I've taken a lot of inspiration from your philosophy of good. How do you apply this without succumbing to polyanism? Did I say that right? Yeah. So, Pollyannish is a term, and it actually comes from a, from a novel from I think he's like the early 1900s but it it uh the name of the novel is

Pollyanna and anyways Pollyanna in the book has this really super positive attitude and it's almost so positive that it overwhelms and it kind of changes people's attitudes in the town but there's a pejorative meaning of this word which is what this guy's asking about and it is that is when when someone is like so positive that they that they forget about reality of a situation, you know. And so that's, that's, that can be absolutely problematic. And that is not what I'm telling anybody to do. In fact, the, the, let's, let's not mistake the, the good philosophy as one that negates reality.

That is totally off. That's not what I'm telling anyone to do. In fact, the very first thing you have to. to do is accept reality. That's the first thing you got to do. You got to look at what's happening. You've got to assess it, assess the reality of it. And then you say, okay, good. Now, instead of dwelling on the negatives and what's going to go bad and what's wrong, you deal with them, but then you look at, okay, now what are we going to do positive out of this? What good's going to come out of this? And that's, that's all it is. It's definitely not denying or being delusional about the

situation by any stretch, but it is also not being woe is me. And oh, this happened. And now, oh my gosh, everything's going horrible. I'm doomed. No, that's not what I'm talking about. Obviously, I'm not talking about that. And it's also not like, it's okay. Everything's wonderful. No, that's why the term is good and not wonderful. Right. I'm not saying everything's wonderful, but good. Okay, now what are we going to find out of this? What are we going to figure out of this? What are we going to make happen now? Because I'm going to deal with reality. I'm going to accept reality. I'm going to accept reality. Then there's some people that, you know,

like the self-help gurus that are like, no, I'm just not going to accept that. It's not going to happen. You make your own reality. I'm going to be so positive that I'm going to get that million dollars tomorrow. No, no, actually you're not going to get that million dollars tomorrow. You're going to have to work. You're going to have to work for a long time. You're going to have to work hard. You're going to have to stay focused on your goals. And then you get you a million dollars.

You could feel strong you are after that. Yes. Yes. Yes. So that's it Deal with reality, accept reality, then find the good in it and move forward. That's a cool video, by the way, that you mean. You like that video? Yep.

I do. I think, is that, are you fishing for a compliment? That video is a lot of people watch that video. It's interesting too because you made that video and you made another video where does discipline come from? And I actually personally I like the awareness discipline come from video better But the good video it just strikes a chord with people right the ad because I think I think because it applies so

universally to negativity in the world like okay, yep these bad things are happening right now in fact I get so much feedback Of people that literally say You know thank you for introducing me to that idea that philosophy because it's changed my attitude and Now when things go wrong, I say good. Now what am I going to do about it? Right. So I think that's why that video is quite popular. That and the unbelievable editing that was done when it was put together.

Yeah, sure. Yeah. And it does seem like a real, like personal, like deeply personal thing. Like, because it's like, it's more, it's not this like sensationalization of it. It's just it's real kind of, kind of dark, whatever. And like how you said, like the negative. Part of it's like a, I said this last time, or it's a painkiller.

It's not a multivitamin. What do you mean by that? Meaning, I don't think I've heard you say that before. Meaning like if you have a problem, you know, just in nature, when you're going along, your brain is evolved to recognize problems.

And if something isn't a problem, it'll start to filter that out. That's just how your brain is. Okay. So in life, when you have problems, that's what's always on the radar. Now you have this little personal, like, tool that's talking to you of how to deal with those problems.

Nice. You know what I mean? So it's kind of that. Like the discipline, where does discipline come from? That's more, starts to go into the multivitamin thing where it's like, there's not a big problem. I'm going to try to recognize it as a problem. I need more discipline, you know? But it's not really this huge problem, but it does help, you know, kind of thing.

So it's like a multivitamin. Interesting. But I like the discipline one as well. Okay, next question. coach jaco what are your thoughts i wonder who is that mean a jih Tutsu guy wrote that uh i think so must be it must be but was it someone from like the gym you think i don't know to address me as coach and first of all if you come to my gym you don't have to call me coach i know kind of weird to me maybe that's why he's doing maybe he just knows him a black belt and thinks i should be

called coached boy yeah or it could be like one of like chief you know hey what's up chief what's up coach i've heard coach in fact i don't mind coach in that regard but you're only a brown belt How can you like coach? No, but I'm in life. You know, remember when I said a long time ago where I was like, yeah, I don't like chief.

No, I don't mind. Oh, you don't like boss. Yes. Or dude when a girl says dude. But I actually, I used to joke and I'd say,

look, guys, if you don't feel comfortable calling me Sensei or instructor or coach, you can just call me master, either one. But the reality is, just call me Jocko. Yeah.

Yeah, I heard someone call you coach. is, you know, how certain guys they like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And I don't like correct people. I don't say, don't call me coach. You know, I just, I'm okay.

I don't care what people call me, to be honest with you. Well, okay. But yeah, the other guy called you, it was weird. He kept calling you coach. There's definitely a handful of people that call me coach.

Maybe they don't know what my name is. All right, so go back to the question here, coach. I'm going to call you dude from now on. Dude. Coach Jocko, what are your thoughts on dealing with old age when getting physically stronger and faster? Ain't going to happen? Well, I don't know. I don't know the answer to that question about age because it's not happening to me.

I'm not getting any older. I mean, when is it that it ain't going to happen anymore? I don't know. Because I'm continuing to train. I'm continuing to do what I do. I've had people tell me that, well, when you hit 30, and then I had old when you hit 35. Then we get 40 now it's when you hit 45 now I'm hearing when it's 50 So yeah, I don't know

I just know that I'm just gonna keep getting after it I'm gonna keep getting stronger I'm gonna keep getting faster I'm gonna keep getting better and if I can't beat my record Well then how close can I get how close can I get to the record and I think I've talked about this before is like I always think about decay Right and how if you don't fight decay it starts to just, you won't notice it. It's slow. And it's like moving like the hour hand, like you don't see it happening.

And I think that's why, I think that's why a lot of aging happens because people don't notice that it's happening so they don't pay attention to it. So what happens is they don't hold the line. They don't hold the line. And like, I track my workouts.

I'm not OCD about it. I'm not like a psycho like, you know, A, I did it in 14 minutes and 32 seconds. And then I refer back to it. No, but I know the general trends, and I know where the numbers are, and I know where they should be, and I know that I need to always keep those in mind. You know, how many pull-ups can I do?

How much can I squat? How much, you know, just those numbers, so you keep them in line. And I think what that does, I do that so I can't hold the line, because like I said, I think age sneaks. I don't think age assaults you. Right. I think it sneaks up on you. And the way it sneaks up on you is a mist rep there and a slower lap over here and a missed workout over there. And you, you just, boom, there's just a little age is chipping away at you.

It's just chipping away. It actually doesn't want you to notice. It doesn't want, that's why it doesn't hit you all at once. It just wants to chip away. And then you fast forward 15 years and you're not the same guy you work. because those chips have taken all your strength away, they've taken your flexibility way, they've

done work on you. So that's why, like I said, I don't know what, okay, am I going to be able to hold the same records when I'm 59? And we've got some older guys, like, you know, Gordon? Yep.

Gordon's 54? Man, I train with Gordon. Yeah. I train with Gordon. I mean, Gordon's legit black belt. And he's not just a legit black belt with knowledge, like you can train with him. He trains hard. So,

I'm just very, I try and stay self-aware, and I think I try and prevent the cutting of corners. And I try and maintain the daily discipline in all things. That's what I try and do. Because when you start cutting those corners,

is when I think it adds up over 15 years and you wake up and you're not the person that you remembered that you were and you're not the person you want to be. So, you got to maintain and hold that line as long as you can. And I'm always actually trying to do new things too. Like trying to figure out something else that's new,

some other technique I've never done before, some exercise I haven't got to buy some weird piece of exercise gear because I'll see something cool on the interwebs and I'll go, dang, I can't do that. How's that 14-year-old girl doing that? I can't do that. I want to learn how to do that. And so that's, I think you've got to fight it.

Yeah. Yeah, and that's a good analogy, the hour hand, you know, where you can't see a move. You watch it all day. You can't see a move. Nope. But look away for one second, not one second, but, you know, look away for a little while. You look back and boom, that thing snuck right up on you. And that's, I mean, that's how you really slit.

That's how it'll assault you as far as age and decay goes, where if you, if you stop for a while and you try to come back, if you stop for 10 years, you know, and you try to come back, that hour hand moved a lot. It moved a lot. Yeah, man. Because you weren't fighting it. Yeah. Because you can hold that hour line.

I mean, you can hold it. Maybe you can't stop it. Yep. You can slow that son bitch down. You just got to keep your eye right on that thing. You know what I mean? It's not moving at all. And sure, you know, like I said, when you're 90 and you've been looking at that hour

hand since you were 25, then yeah, you're going to be like, oh, I remember back when I was 25, it was way over here. Now I'm way over here, fitness wise or whatever. Or I can squat less or whatever. Of course. You know, maybe. And that's the, you know. It's the inevitability.

But just like how you said, yeah, if you just stay on that, that discipline in all things, man, you're going to hold that. You're going to hold it good. Do not go gentle into that good light. Yeah. And with that, the, you know, there's kind of balanced to all things. Don't get crazy. You know how guys will just be redlining their workout because they're trying to maintain that.

No, no, no. You got to be careful about that. Yeah, man. It's just like a race car. You can't keep the race car in the red. You got to bring it back to the shop sometimes. They've got to be part of the routine. Yeah.

And I can always, I'm pretty good. That's another thing is the more you work out, the more you train, the more the, the better you know your own body. Yeah. And you know, you walk up to the gym sometimes. Like, what was it, yesterday? Yeah, yesterday? Man, I felt like Superman. Like I was just super strong.

I was doing one of my workouts. I was strong. I was just technical. I just felt great. You know? And I would say there's some days that I go in the gym and I'm like, oh, what,

you know, I got to stretch. I got to like take an easy day. And then there's some days where I say, I got to take an easy day, but anyways, I'm just going to get crushed. I'm just going to crush this thing.

But, and part of that, again, because I see that, you got to make sure that you're not cutting corners. You got to make sure that you're not taking your eye off the hour and sometimes letting that thing get up, get one up.

on you because you're being lazy right so that's why going this is sometimes a lot of workouts i have you know i have some days some days where i feel like superman i have some days where i feel like a like horrible and i have a lot of more like lowest lowest lane or something yeah some days where i feel like uh i'm just going through the motions but going through the motions is okay yeah it's okay to go in there and go through the motions it's okay to go in there and not break any records going in there and going through the motions is generally a thousand times better than then not doing anything Yeah. Yeah.

And that's actually, I mean, redlining it all the time is a easy way to get knocked right out of the game. Yeah, well, you'll get injured after a while. Yeah, that's what I mean. Especially when you start getting older, you know? Maybe. I knew you're going to say that.

Next question. What do you got? What are your favorite podcasts and why? Hashtag name dropping. Is okay. So anybody that listens to me, there's a couple podcasts that I listen to. And they're really obvious,

and they're like the big, the big podcasts. You got, well, Tim Ferriss, boom, right? You got Joe Rogan, boom. You got Sam Harris, boom. And you got hardcore history with Dan Carlin. and he's got another one that's called Common Sense. And I those those, all those

are really really good podcasts. And I'm, I've been listening to a podcast for many, many years now. Before listening to podcasts was cool. I was listening to podcasts. I actually grew up listening to radio shows. I've talked about that

before. But I have and I forget, I actually, I cannot remember how I got into podcasts. I do not remember how I got into podcasts. Um, but anyways, whenever I got into podcasts, those are the kind of the ones that I listen to. And I've, I sample a lot of other podcasts and sometimes I'll search for certain topics and I'll just listen to a random podcast. Um, one of the, but there's one more, the only one that I have that's like not on the main, uh, sites and in people's view is a podcast called Martyr Made and it's by a guy named Daryl Cooper and I can't recommend that that podcast strongly enough it's outstanding it is an outstanding podcast and Daryl

Cooper I don't even know like he's just this underground guy I think he's a I think he was in the Navy but he that's not he's not anymore he's he doesn't do it it's not like a profession for him, but it should be. He should be, it's a great podcast. So check out Martyr Made. It's also, he's on Twitter under Marter Made is his call sign, but he's got

like 142 followers. Like, no one knows about him. No one knows about him. And actually, you know what? It was somebody on Twitter, and I don't forget who it was, it was. It was somebody on Twitter that told me about Martyr Made and just said, check it out.

And when people tell me to check some out, man, I check it out. And as soon as you open it, you know, you're going to realize why it's so good. Really detailed, really very good historical research. And it's a great podcast. And those are the, and you know what? I'm a really picky podcast guy too. Like I'm really, I need somebody to get, somebody needs to bring it on their podcast for me to like it. I try new podcasts all the time.

and I don't get a lot of repeat customers myself. Like I don't repeat a lot because I just, I just, yeah, it needs to be really, really solid. That's for me to invest hours worth of my time. Yeah. That's got to be a heavy investment. Yeah. And it's got to be something that's worth my while. And that's why those that I mentioned, let me grab a, I'm just seeing if on my phone,

if there's any others that I might have missed. But I don't think as far as like massively good ones that I can recommend across the board, those are them. And you know, there's other ones that I'll occasionally listen to, but and those are all

kind of like the popular ones that come out. Donko Jones has got a good podcast that he interviews, talks about rock and roll. I dig that one. Only because I really dig Donko Jones, the band as well. the martyr made one is that like what's kind of the format

with Alan it does he have guess it's no it's similar to hardcore history it's him it's Daryl Cooper just talking about and that one I think it's going to be his it's about the the Israeli Palestinian conflict it goes all the way back to the beginning

and talks to you about what it is and what it's about and it's really good so those are the main podcast that I listen to again And you've got to, and it's just a big investment of time. Yeah. And especially because I don't have a commute so I don't drive anywhere.

So, and I'm in, and I can't, I can't do anything mentally and do a podcast at the same time. Right. And listen to a podcast. So I can't read and listen to a podcast. It doesn't work. The only thing I can do is drive and do yard work. Like anything that's, like actually when I have a big project to do with the house, I love it because I can get it all caught up on podcasts and whatever.

Yeah. But yeah, you know what that is? You know, girls can do that. You know that? I was not aware of that. Yeah, so this is. This is how it works. Girls can, they say they, they, they, I don't want to be dismissive and call it multitasking

because it's, it goes, it's more deep than multitasking. Girls can do things that require, like, attention. They can do more than one. And then guys can't. I would be impressed by a girl that could listen to a legit podcast and read a book and get like the full value out of both of them. Yeah. So how girls' brains are wired, they can do that a lot better than guys and guys can. But how's this, though?

This is kind of interesting. And I used to do this all the time to mess with girls. Guys have a different spatial awareness than girls do. So one of the tests that was done, it was like, I want to say 16. I don't know the numbers, but it was a classroom just full of guys. classroom full of girls and they'd run all these tests. There's different tests. But one of them was you have to draw a bicycle.

That's it. So a bicycle is this kind of, in a way, kind of is this unique thing when you draw it. Because you have to know where this goes because that affects, you know, the pedals got to affect the chain. That affects, it proved or it indicated spatial awareness, right? So of the experiment, all the guys could do it. You don't have to be an artist. Some bikes didn't look amazing, but they were working. You don't have to be an artist.

And it doesn't matter if you're a lot. bike rider too. So all the guys could do it. You know how many of the girls could do it? No. None. Really? None.

None. Yes. So, and I've done this experiment, and if you're going to do this experiment, do it correctly. Don't be like, hey, here's a bike copy this, but don't cheat on it. Really, if you really want to get to the bottom, tell, ask a girl, any girl. Woman, no matter what age, draw a working bicycle. They can't do it. I have yet to come across a girl. I can do it.

I'll be trying that tonight when I get home to my... But as a guy, daughters and with. As a guy, it's pretty, most guys will do it. Hmm. Yeah,

it's weird. But anyway, it's just how the brains are different. Well, there's other fun stuff, too. For me, it is very difficult

to actually engage in a book and reading or writing while I'm listening to someone else talk about something intellectual. It's very challenging for me. Yeah. Yeah,

fully. To get the full value. I mean, I can do it, but both efforts are half-ass and I won't get anything. out of them. Yeah.

Is there any podcasts you listened to that I didn't mention? Strangely, it's the same thing, except for the martyr-made one. How could you know that's a martyr-made? I've told you about that a bunch of times. Like, you said, scarcity of resources, man, that resource being time.

But nonetheless, actually, even though the ones I do listen to, I don't listen to as much because I don't drive as much, and I don't do as much you are to work anymore. Except for that London Reel one, the one that you run, I've actually, like, he's on my... Yeah, he's not a podcast, though.

It is. Really? Yeah, I'm subscribed to it, yeah. I didn't know as an actual podcast. I thought it was on the YouTube. I think it's like he takes the audio and puts down. Oh, okay. Okay, well, there's another one.

Yeah, he does it. And that's the thing, like, a lot of times people will, like... That's Brian Rose with London Real. Yeah. Oh, okay. That's a good suggestion. He gets some cool people on this, on his show. Yeah, and really, really, I mean, put real simply, it's an interview.

Yeah. Right. Yeah, he's doing straight-up interview. Like, even Tim Ferriss is mostly like, just interview. Oh, Tim Ferriss is actually, absolutely an interview.

Yeah. So, and then you have Joe Rogan who's kind of like, it's kind of an interview, but it's more of like, they're just talking as a conversation. So there's like all these little different subtleties that are,

that makes them different. But it takes a lot of skill to interview people good. And this, the London real guy. Yeah, Brumless. Yeah. He's,

he's good down to like who he chooses. They're like pretty much across the board. Everybody's interesting. Even if the subject isn't your, thing okay but the guys he chooses for those subjects are pretty solid yeah yeah that's a good yeah and i i really do i i really like a podcast a lot and you can get so much information out of them and i love the audio format yeah you know i i just it's just great when you can when you can just sit down and listen and that's always what i've said for for for this podcast like i want

it to be something where people sit down and kind of put their headphones on and say, okay, I'm getting ready to press play. Three, two, one, here it comes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean, like we're doing a Q&A, and obviously Q&A doesn't have that same level of impact as if I'm going to read something either that I wrote or something that somebody else wrote,

that's a very important subject matter, that we're going to break down, then that's sort of, that's what I like. Yeah, these These Q&A ones are cool because It is like Of course, we're just having a conversation about This stuff, but there's a third person

In the room as well for every question Because it's their question Yeah, that's true And that's one thing that's interesting, like when you're listening to When you're listening to Any of these podcasts that I talked about You're basically a third person in the room sitting there listening to the conversation

And actually when I was on Sam Harris, you know Your brother drove up with me And he was in the room listening to the conversation You know, it's kind of interesting. But, you know, when you're listening to Joe Rogan, and actually one thing that's pretty cool is I've, you know, I've done an interview with Sam Harris. I've done an interview with Joe Rogan.

I've done an interview with Tim Ferriss. I've had some good conversations with, with Dan Carlin, and I might end up being on common sense at some point. But with the other three, with Darrell Cooper, I don't know him. But I know those guys. I know. I know them.

And so when I'm, when I'm, listening to their podcast, I do feel like I'm kind of in the room with them. Right, right. And sometimes I want to, like, answer and say something and whatever. So, yeah, it's, and I think everybody, I think even people that never met Joe Rogan, but they listen to all this podcast, they think they're in there with them. Yeah. So when I went, I did a thing with Joe Rogan, played pool with them. And I went up to that studio before. Mm-hmm. And what would you go up for? With Halleck or something? I went with, yeah, for Halleck. Okay. With, yeah, for some stuff.

Yeah, so that time when I went up, I asked them, hey, do you encounter people who basically feel like they know you, like personally? They'll just roll into a conversation with you like you know. And he said absolutely. Every single time. Yeah. No, that's the same. Even I'm experiencing that now. Yeah.

When I meet someone that goes, hey, man, I listen to the podcast. Hey. And they're like talking like, well, you, yeah, what's going on with echo and blah, blah, blah. And they're like talking about me like, like we're bros. Yeah. And it's pretty cool. Because in a way, you are. Yeah.

I've been talking to them for a long time. I know. I was thinking about this. So, like hardcore history, the one podcast that is called Blueprint for Armageddon. If you haven't listened to it, just stop and go listen to it. It's awesome. But that thing is, it's five episodes about four hours each. So that's 20 hours.

And when you get done with it, man, you feel like you're pretty tight with Dan Carlin. I mean, that's 20 hours. And then one day I was doing the math last week because we got to third. podcast and they're basically two hours each and I'm like my god that's 60 hours 60 hours worth of worth of conversation with you and me and so absolutely people start feeling like you know hey oh yeah I know I know what jocco's going to think about this or say about this and and and they're basically in the room here you know talking to us yeah and there's that added element which is going to make that even more so with us because these are their these are your questions yeah this is their

And and I do converse with them on the interwebs too. So people are like, oh, and they'll hit me with a question. And sometimes it's not enough to get on the podcast, but I'll just say, yeah, don't do that. You know, don't do that. That's not smart. Or yeah, no, that sounds like a good plan, execute, you know, stuff like that. Yep. It's just the nature of the deal.

But yeah, get your podcast on and spread the word. And by the way, thanks to, thanks Tim and Joe. those guys brought me on before I had a podcast. Tim brought me on when the book wasn't out I was basically no human being knew who I was if you weren't like in the direct like if you weren't in the SEAL teams with me

and then Joe heard that podcast and then we connected on Twitter and he goes come be on my podcast and I was like awesome so and then Sam Harris so anyways thanks to those guys for having me on and spread the word a little bit. Yeah, I like Sam Harris is one as well. That's actually one of the few that, that, remember how we were talking before you

did a podcast. We're like, oh, it'd be weird you just talking, which actually thinking about it wouldn't be that weird, really. Yeah. I mean, if you think about, like, even the last podcast that we did where I just read the book, uh, uh, four hours in my lay, uh, you didn't say much, right, you know? And you said enough to maybe get me through some, some spots where you had a question or maybe I didn't make something clear. But, you know, I think that's, I think I could do it. But, you know, I don't, I don't know why I would. Yeah.

I'd rather just be talking to you. Overall. Yeah, overall, especially with the Q&A, with, and I think sometimes you'll go into things that doesn't apply to everyone's common knowledge. You know, maybe only military guys will know it or only exacts might know it. So I don't, you know, there's a lot of stuff. I don't know. So I have the luxury of being here.

Wait, wait, wait. What is this? What are you talking about? What does ROTC mean? Just kidding. I don't want ROTC mean. Anyway, but yeah, Sam Harris is good, though, where he just does it solo. I've actually followed Sam Harris from the long time ago.

Yeah, yeah. He did the one with Scott Reitz from the LAPD. That's a good one. Yeah. And I like the Tim Ferriss one with Josh Waitskin. He's got a couple with him. Josh Waitskin's really, he's a jihitsu player. He's a world champion chess guy.

and just has an interesting attitude about stuff. Yeah. Makes me feel like, you know, there's a lot more to learn out there about things. He wrote a book called The Art of Learning. Anyways, that's a really good one. Joe Roach. Scott Reitz. So much of what Joe Rogan, Joe Rogan's always worth listening to.

Yeah. And it's weird. Like, I pretty much with Joe, I listen to the people, if I know the person that he's got on there. Right. And I don't listen to a lot of comedians, right? Because I don't know. The comedians don't make me laugh. That's the weird.

Not weird. That's the good thing about Joe Rogan's because he has so many different elements of interest. You know, is the comedians, the jiu jitzy guys, Mammah guys. What he does really well is he makes people talk and he, you know, I've heard him get some criticism for, you know, let's say he's got like a religious guy on there and he doesn't believe in religion. But he'll let that person talk about religion and won't like jump on him and get in their face and say, you know, but that's part of what makes it cool is like he's just trying to learn man he's not trying to confront people

you know he's just trying to learn and I think that's I think all those people do that for the most part there people that are interested in learning and they're trying to figure stuff out themselves and so I think it's cool

that that Jill Rogan's not getting in somebody's face about something they don't believe I mean not that he doesn't disagree with people sometimes yeah so that's that listen to some podcasts And, you know, the other thing about this is like, we're putting out one podcast a week.

And that, I don't even know if that's sustainable. Only because of time. I mean, the amount of time that it takes to prepare a podcast, in the beginning, it was pretty easy for me because I was doing a bunch of books that I already read. I already read them. I just crack them open. And most of those books, I went well read.

I mean, about face. I already had that thing outlined and highlighted. Last 100 yards, I mean, a bunch of those beginning books were already done. And it wasn't until like the, until everyone on Twitter started telling me, hey, check out this book. And now I'm also reading books I've never seen before. And I got to read the book. And what I do is I read it and I go through it and highlight it. And somebody asked me this question too, like, how do you prep?

So I read the book. I go through, I highlight the whole thing of what I think is impactful, what I think is important. But then once you read it, you can't just, it does, does. doesn't um it it you just don't pick it up and read the highlighted parts in order because that doesn't always make sense and it also doesn't always have the it doesn't make people think doesn't make me think about what I want to think about it doesn't have the impact that I want it to have so once I have it highlighted then I have to go through and plus I'll highlight you know let's say I highlight half the book well then you're not going to read half the book so then I got to go in

and figure out what really is important and then from there I got to organize it in the way that the timeline that I'm actually going to read it aloud and then make notes about whatever comments I have about it as I'm reading it because that's sort of that's sort of why I'm doing it because I want to comment about what I'm reading because otherwise people just go by the book and read the book yourself but I'm trying to give my perspective on some of it and so that's challenging and then the other weird thing is like I I meet people all time because I travel all time, I go to events and speak and companies that I'm working with.

And a lot of times the people that are there that are totally into the podcast, they're not even caught up. They're not caught up with the podcast. They're like, hey, I'm almost caught up. And I'm like, what do you mean? I fell behind because I, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm only on 26 right now.

And so sometimes I think, well, maybe people are just, we're just turning out at such a high rate. But then there's some people that I've talked to as I think about, like, well, maybe I need to slow down a little bit. I've talked to some of the people that I work with and people that listen to the podcast that are into it. And I say like, you know, we might go down to, you know,

once every two weeks. And it's like I just smacked them in the face. They're like, no, no, no, no, no. You know, I think it'd be, you know, you. But sometimes I also feel that if I had more time that I would be able to do a better job, like maybe that's something I need to weigh as well. And if you think about like hardcore history,

that guy, Dan Carlin is, he just makes people, he tortures people, making him wait. Yeah. And it make you wait and wait and wait. And so I don't know, maybe we need to go to once every two weeks. Maybe I just need to suck it up and just keep doing it. I don't know, maybe, I don't know yet. But, um, yeah.

The one thing that's good about all these other podcasts is that gives you an opportunity to go listen to something else. It's true. Or you go back and re-listen. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. I don't know. We will see. I'm sure we might get some feedback on that one.

Yeah. So, if people think, if you out there thinks you'd be okay with us going every two weeks. Yeah. Or if it's going to ruin your life. Yeah.

Yeah, because it probably takes 15 to 20 hours now. I'm a slow reader. I'm a slow reader. So when I'm reading a book, it's, it's, I read at the same pace that I talk.

Now, when I'm on the podcast, I'm talking a little bit slower than I normally talk. But when I'm reading, I'm reading about the pace I'm speaking right about now. This is just a normal. And what's good about it, and I learn this in college when I read, and I'm reading at this pace, I remember just about everything that I read. If I read fast la Tim Ferriss in speed reading, I don't retain the same amount.

And so I read slow. I absorb. I'm thinking about it. I'm making some notes. So to get through a book, it takes 10, 15 hours. So then you get through with that. Now you've got to go back through it again and decide what. the actual script timing that you're going to read it.

Right, right. So now I'm, like, marking up the book, and I'm going back, and I'm writing the page numbers, and I'm tabbing it out. That takes a few hours, three hours. And so by the, it's all said and done, you know, you're talking about 20 hours, 15 to 20 hours to prep. And every single week. Every single week.

Like today, or yesterday I got done prepping for this podcast, or actually I got done prepping for the four hours in my lay. As soon as I got done, I literally picked it up. I stood up at my bookshelf and I started looking, okay, what's going, what's coming next? Because I want to start reading it now. Yeah, yeah. Dang.

Yeah. But that's the, the jaco preparedness. Yeah. You know, hyper preparedness. Right. Hyper preparedness. And also, it's because when, like I said earlier, when somebody presses play on the podcast,

I want them to, I want them to be getting a piece of quality material. I'm not going to turn out something that's just, that's just crap. I would rather not do it at all. I'd rather shut down and take a six-month break or a lifelong break and never do it again than just start turning it out for no reason. You're escalated that real quick. Yeah, and I know what. You know why?

You know why I did that? Because I have to maintain that attitude of like, I'm not doing this. I'm doing this because I want to do it. You know what I mean? I'm doing this because I want to do it. And if I don't want to do it, then I'm not going to do it. Right. And it is

I mean like I said I like to hit I like to hit play on a podcast And be like okay. This is it just like sitting down to listen to great music or anything like that that the podcast for me is like that It's like reading a great book. It's like watching a great movie It's sitting down pressing playing going okay.

This is going to have impact on me And so I want to turn something out like that I don't want to turn out second rate stuff I want to turn out something legit And if I if I fail to do that then I'm not going to do it. At least, now, I'm saying if I was failed to do it, but I was trying my hardest, okay, I might continue because I'm trying and I'm making,

but if I was failing to do it because I wasn't putting the effort into it, then I'm not going to do it because that's, I think that my personal expectations and the expectations that people have when they press play, they want to get something good. Yeah. They want to get some quality. They want to learn something. they want to enter into the game.

Whereas if they start press and play and they hear garbage, man, I don't want them to hear that. And I don't want to be that. That's not my gig. My gig is going hard, putting out hard, and putting out something that people want to listen to because it helps them. Not doing it just to do it. That's not my thing. Yeah. And if you start slipping in that regard, right?

You can smell it from a mile away, man. Yeah. Yeah. I'll tell you what, the one thing I have realized when I first started, I thought, oh, well, I don't know. You know, there's only so many books, you know, that I could actually do. Because I'm thinking books that had impact on me, real legit impact. Yeah. There wasn't some huge list.

Right. Yeah. It wasn't some huge list. Right. But as soon as I started going down the path, now I realize that there's literally, I realize that there's sending me two or three books and saying, hey, check this out. My Amazon bill, click through to Jocko podcast, click through to Amazon. We got it going on because half that money is from me because I'm ordering books all the time.

When somebody says, hey, check this book out, I don't have time to play around. Do you know what I do? I just order it. I just click through it, order it on Amazon. I'm literally, literally getting a new bookshelf in my house because I've got so many books piling up. And, yeah, that to me, what's good about it, I love this. This is another thing. I told you this early on.

Because early on, you said, hey, you know, it was like three weeks into it. You're like, hey, I don't know if we're able to keep up this pace. And I said, you know what? I like this grind. I want to be maxed out. I want to have the pedal down. And you know what? I want to be going hard.

And I think the people that listen to the podcast are people that are going hard in their perspective lives. They're working hard. They're making things happen. They're being aggressive. And that's what I'm doing here. That's what we're doing here. And so I think that's why.

it resonates with some people. And there's some people that are listening to this that know that they've got to step it up a little bit. You know, and that also is a good thing. I don't think there's too many people that are like, Jocko, get it together. You need to get your game on. They know I'm bringing my A game, right?

I'm bringing my A game, and people know that. But the day that I can't bring my A game, then a couple things. Maybe it's time, okay, you know what? I need more time because I don't want to turn out crap or I don't do it anymore. or we do it whenever, but I like being driven. I like a deadline.

I learn a lot from the podcast, from getting ready for it, because you got to remember, I read a book. So you got a little bit by listening to an hour of me talking about a book. I read a book. I absorbed it. I highlighted it. I researched it. I looked up and I look up, oh, that general, he sounds like an interesting guy.

Let me just do a real quick fact check to see if there's anything behind the scenes I need to tell about him. Oh, you know what? There's a poem that's related to this. I'm digging out poems that I didn't know, didn't understand, and reviewing them. So all these little things that, you know, and who knows? I mean, should this be the full-time job? I don't know, you know?

And by the way, the whole time that I'm doing this, I got a business, you know, with Laf, that we're traveling and working with companies. I got other books in the hopper that I'm writing currently, and I have to spend time doing. that, which I'm super pumped about those as well, but like those, that takes time. So, yeah. Dang. But again, you know what? Bring it on. Bring it on.

Bring it on. Bring it on. I'm going to jump in there. I'm going to answer your Twitter questions. I'm going to deliver some podcast yet boy, and make it happen. Some people choose to get after. Red line. And we encourage that. Red line. That's what I'm talking about. Red line this bad boy.

Speaking of Redlining, next question. Please discuss how discipline equals freedom can and should apply to one's financial life. Thanks. From all of stupid. Obviously, if you want to be financially free, you got to have financial discipline. That's just the way it is. So here's, it's just simple, not easy.

Save your money. Boom. That's number one. Don't buy an expense. Here's one. don't buy an expensive car until you own a piece of property. That's just a basic rule.

Interesting. Yep. If you're driving a Mercedes S class from 2015, is that a good one? It's a very good one. It's a very good one. But it's also $120,000.

But if you're renting, the wrong move. Sell that thing and buy a piece of property. A car is a depreciating asset. A property is an appreciating asset. Try and put your money into your appreciating assets. Spend less than you earn. Boom.

Stay off the credit cards. Boom. Invest your money in something. I like to invest money in me. In things that I'm going to do. That's what I want to do. I want to invest money in things that I know and understand. And what better do I know and understand than things that I'm going to

I'm doing for people that I know or things that I'm involved with. So that's what you got to do. You want to get your money taken care of. You want to have financial freedom. You got to just have the financial discipline. That's all there is to it. And work hard. You know, work hard.

Make things happen. But your major gains, you know, most people don't become rich by their salary, right? They become, they earn their wealth. They gain their wealth through bigger things. like buying properties. You know, we got a jih Tzu player at the, at the academy, a girl. And, you know, a year ago, she was kind of talking to me about, oh, well, you know, she just got married and blah, blah, blah.

And we started talking. I said, you, you know, she said, what the thing about moving? I got this condo. And I was like, we started talking about buying properties. And boom, she disclosed on a like a four, four unit property in San Diego. And the day she got the keys, she was making $400 a month. She went from paying $1,900 a month in mortgage. The day she made, she got the keys.

All of a sudden, she rented that place out. She's got three units. She's living in the crappiest unit, and she's got those things rented out, and now she's making $400 a month. So that's a delta of what, $2,300 a month in the black? Yep. That's impressive. Yeah.

And it took her a year to get done. But she did it. And now I said, she's like, I'm so happy. I'm like, that's cool. Start saving for your next property. I'm like, the market's going to take a downturn. You've got to be ready if it doesn't, if it does, but you've got to be ready to make that next move.

So start saving your money. Start paying that thing down. Start saving your money. Start saving that next down payment. That's where your wealth gets established, is an easy long-term strategic moves that you make. And, you know, I'm no financial expert. But you don't have to be a financial expert to know to save your money,

to spend less than you earn. and property to me is a good thing to invest in. It does go up and down, you know, and there's a lot of people that got crushed in the market downturn in 2007 and 2008. And I was in the military, so I was buying houses and I didn't even know that the market downturned. It didn't matter to me because I had a steady job and I just bought those properties just to have properties. I wasn't buying them to flip them and sell them and all that. No, I was just like, okay, in some time in the future, somebody's going to be paying me rent and it's going to go in my pocket.

And that sounds like a good plan to me. Because they're not making any more real estate by the beach, right? So, yeah, I'm not a financial genius. Talk to somebody that is smart. Talk to somebody that understands finances. But save your money, spend less than you earn. Don't be renting a place if you're buying a out, buying a Mercedes S class or a seven series or a range rover.

Buy a little piece of property. Buy a little thing. Buy a little thing. Don't just go buy that little something. Get in there. Get it started. Yeah, man, I like this. Invest in yourself.

Yeah. Because, and invest in yourself, that's such a broad term, right? And actually, it's kind of started to become like a little, like a cliche catchphrase. Invest in yourself. But if you really think about that, yeah, you invest in yourself. You don't go buy, you know, I used to work in the nightclub industry. Right. And I'm now, I'm looking with my mindset now looking back at the people I used to deal with.

I used to see people come in there every weekend and spend a lot of money. I don't know. Maybe some of them are already a rich. But I know that if that's what you're spending your money on, you're going down and essentially just buying drinks, buying nightclub. Yes, there's no essential. That's what you're doing. Yeah. You're thinking back, like thinking back five years ago, you spent all your, you spent all,

your money, not all your money, but you spend a bunch of money on drinks and whatever, you have literally nothing to show for it. And in most cases, it's going to mess you up in one way. You can do something you regret or whatever, potentially. So think of that same five years and be like, dang, what if I started these two things that in my, you know, prediction is going to help me in five years. And let's say you did that five years ago. And you did it, I don't know, you even practice it like an hour a day, whatever it is. Even just improving your knowledge on the economy or something, I don't know, anything. Anything that improves your knowledge.

Five years later, you could be essentially an expert at it. Absolutely. So now, just consider now, what is it that you should have got into? Because you probably have a handful of interests that are pretty cool to you. Even if it's like playing guitar, I don't know, whatever. But if you can make it something that you can anticipate in five years, it's going to be, if you're talking about financial stuff, it's going to help you make money. didn't do that. Do that thing.

And I harp on reality TV a lot, but I think it kind of deserves it because you don't learn much reality TV, yet you lost like that hour. And if you spent that hour, and really you could kind of keep watching reality if you want, but just spend that one hour doing something that you anticipate, if you're really good at, it would help you financially, do that thing for one hour. And then one day's going to come. You're going to think back, oh, just the same way I'm thinking back of the five years ago. I mean, in my case, it's more than five years ago, but just the same way I'm thinking back of those people at the nightclub industry, the same way I'm thinking back about that, you're going to be thinking back at yourself.

And you'd be like, dang, I'm so happy I got into that, you know? Yeah. And there's all kinds of things you could have done. I mean, I look at the money I wasted over the years in the bars. It's ridiculous, you know, being a young seal out getting after. with the boys Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and the Sunday. That's how we used to roll. That's how we used to roll.

And it was just, hey, we'd show up. I'm the richest guy in the world. I have all the money that I ever need and I can buy whatever I want. That's what every night was like. So not wise. Don't do that. Yeah. And I'll even.

Go out. Have some fun. It's cool. You can still kind of do it. I'm just saying think of that. Yeah. Think of what you're doing right now. Because for these people and for these people I was talking about back when I used to work in the nightclub industry, they are really, technically they are committed to spending their money.

Committed to it. If you're doing something to every single week for years, you're committed to it. So just take one of those hours. Or take maybe 10% of that money that you're spending or 25% all of it, whatever, and put it in something that you anticipate. Yeah. And the other thing is, I mean, invest in yourself as like actually. build something, actually build a little company, you know, make something. That's what

I was meant. You've got another perspective, which is also very viable and makes just as much sense. I was literally talking about, you know, from your perspective, oh, you like guitars, cool. Figure out how to make a cool guitar stand at your house, you know, and then see if you can get that thing produced. And then, oh, it's really good. Maybe we start running a production. Let's do that. That is infly,

Not only where you possibly end up with some kind of a product that sells, but you'll have learned something. You've had fun. You've created something for the world. You've learned the lessons that you learned about building it and getting back after it. That's all going to be worthwhile as well. So there's no this, this, I'm not saying this with regards to that you're going to come up with this product and you're going to get rich. It's not going to happen.

It's not going to happen. but can you use that to build knowledge can you use that to gain experience that will then compound with other things in your life and eventually make you financially free because you had that discipline absolutely yes yes yeah next question does micromanaging ever work well yes and and more importantly does it work yes sometimes it works and more importantly sometimes you have to micromanage um so you get somebody that isn't good at their job doesn't do a good job doesn't show up doesn't run things right of course you know how you fix them you got to get in their micromanage well first of all you can't do mission failure so you got to get in there

micromanage once you're done micromanaging or or once you've got them up to speed then you can stop micromanaging. This is, this is totally good to go. And even if you ask Laif or, you know, the other platoon commanders at work for me or assistant platoon commanders

that work for me, if, when they got to know me, when they met me, I was micromanaged master. Because I'm in their grill. Hey, you got to do this.

No, come over here a little bit. No. And wouldn't give me any slack. But then as soon as I see that they get it, of course, then it's like, okay,

you got this. You got this. And I'm going to, I'm going to, macro manage and barely manage and let them run with it. And so that's absolutely micromanagement is sometimes it's a necessity. And by the way, if you're getting micromanaged, that's a little bit of a red flag. Sure, you might have somebody that's a control freak that is a compulsive micromanager,

and that sucks. But you also might have somebody that doesn't trust you yet. And so how do you build up their trust? Is it by hiding from them? No, it's by being open and being like, hey, boss, here's what I'm going to do. You actually send them more information than they could even want. You show them how responsible you are. You show them what a handle you have on the situation.

And that's how you can help overcome the micromanager. But if someone's not doing what they're supposed to do or they're failing or they're letting you down, then yeah, you've got to get in their grill and micromanage them. The other time, and I sort of said this, is when you're mentoring someone, that can also be viewed as micromanagement. Because now I'm sitting side by side. I might be breathing down your neck a little bit. and that might be viewed as micromanagement, but again, sometimes it's necessary. If you don't know the ropes yet,

I got to show you the ropes, that means I got to sit by you and make sure you know it. Teaching. So if you're teaching somebody something in a work environment, that can also be viewed as micromanagement. It actually is because you're saying, hey, put this over here, put that over here. Wait, back off.

Let me do this. No, no, you don't know how to do it. I've got to show you how to do it. I'm teaching how to do it. So there's that. And then that's teaching. And then sometimes you've got to show people how to do it. And I told that long story in here one time where I just said,

hey, you sit and watch how I'm going to run this squad. And I ran the squad and got fired up and told people where to go and moved on the line. And the platoon commander looked at me and said, okay, I can do that. And as soon as you saw it one time, he got it. So that's sometimes micromanagement is okay. The thing is you don't want to get stuck in the rut of micromanagement. So if I mentor you, if I teach you, if I instruct you, if I show you the way, doesn't mean stay there and keep micromanaging because you're not doing your job.

You shouldn't have the capability or the capacity to micromanagement, to micromanage everybody that works for you. If you have that ability, you're not doing your job. You're not looking up the chain of command. You're not looking out. Your troopers, your subordinate leadership should be stepping up and leading, and you should expect that of them. And if you have to micromanagement,

it should be a chore that you don't like doing. And when you get in there and you micromanage for a certain amount of time, then you say, okay, you got this. You know, I'm stepping back. and then you've got to step back because no one likes to be micromanaged. So once you get people up to speed, step back, let them run, let your leaders lead.

Yeah, sometimes those people who like to micromanage or they feel compelled to, they can fall in that trap where, let's say they do need to micromanage, and they'll get that payoff of, oh, yeah, I see this guy kind of getting it. But instead of understanding the full scope of things where, oh, he's getting it now, I don't need to manage as much.

They'll be like, they'll still start chasing that payoff of them getting it with their little micromanagement, you know, so they'll like constantly need that payoff. Some people, now that you mentioned, some people micromanage because their ego, though they want to, they want to exercise, they want to do two things, exercise their power over the person or show off their knowledge to the person. So those two are just such a pain. there's such a pain. But you know what?

What do you do? Okay, cool. I'm going to work harder. I'm going to be ahead of you. I'm going to get better at this and we're going to move on. Yeah, that showing off knowledge thing. That, that, it's in a micromanagement situation, it seems like, okay, it's obvious you shouldn't do that. And you could probably see it from a mile away.

But just in everyday life, that's a compelling thing to want to show people. You ever hear someone telling you something that you already know and you just want to tell them, I already know. I know. I know. You know, like you don't have to explain it to me. When really, when you really kind of search your own feelings, it's not that they're wasting your time. It's kind of that you just want to let them know that I have that knowledge.

Don't worry about, you know what I mean? But I see that all the time. I feel that all the time. Just got to like, like, light your tongue green there. But I think that's a real compelling, like, desire, you know, to show, hey, I already know that. Or look how much I know, you know. Yeah, people definitely like that. It makes them feel good.

Look at what I know. Yep. Last question. Jocco, focus in a battle is easy. How do you keep focus in a long war, i.e. long-term goals. That can definitely be true. It can be pretty easy to focus

on the battle that's right in front of your face. And when you're doing that, Sometimes you can lose track of the long-term goal. But I want to have that long-term goal so embedded in my mind that I never lose sight of it, ever. And those little tasks and projects and short-term goals that you tackle, they need to lead toward that strategic. victory winning the long war and we get very caught up in instant gratification we want results now we want the shortcut to the winner's podium and sometimes you know when we don't get that short-term glory that we want we lose track of those long-term goals and you look up

in six weeks or in six months or in six years and you've made no progress none you never moved you might even be further from your goal than you were why why did you let that happen it's because you lost sight of that long-term goal and at some point After you lose sight of that goal and years have gone by, you think to yourself, maybe I can't. Maybe I can't do it. And so you give up. You let it fade. And you settle.

You settle for mediocrity. You settle for average. You settle for, oh well, but no. No. In bed, that long-term goal in your mind. Burn it into your soul. Think about it and write about it and talk about it and hang it up on your wall. But most important, do something about it.

Do something about it. Every day, every day. Do something that moves you toward that goal that keeps the goal alive and in sight and in focus. However small or insignificant that step might seem, take it, do it. do that little piece. Make it happen. Because that goal isn't going to achieve itself. It's all on you.

And I think that's all I've got for tonight, which means it's time to wrap it up. Echo, what else do we have? We have the important fact that if you're into supplements, these are supplements that we, I'm going to speak for you for a second. We recommend it's on it supplements.

Specifically, creel oil for your joints. And Shroom Tech for, what does it do? Metcon performance, I would say. Yeah, in a nutshell, kind of boiled down, it helps you utilize oxygen consumption. which is a good thing. Yes, performance site, very much so.

And yes, it does work. Ask anyone who's ever taking it. And what? Where are you bar? That's a good one. Yeah. And by the way, if you do get these items that are going to help you, you'll also be helping us here on the podcast,

your boy. Yep. And you'll get helped discount-wise. If you go onet.com slash jaco, 10% off. Nice. If you didn't already know, that's a good one. Anyway, there's a lot of good stuff on there. supplements. You can read about them.

You can read about the quality. Some gear and equipment on there as well. Yeah. Get yourself some zombie bells. Yeah, if you want. Onet.com slash jaco, 10% off all supplements. Or before you do Amazon shopping, if you shop at Amazon, which I think we all do,

before that, before you go to Amazon.com, go to jacopodcast.com and then click on the Amazon link. It's like a little affiliate thing. Beautiful way. that you can support uh jaco podcast that's a beautiful thing easy easy too really easy trust me i've done it before and then um jocco store dot com that's where if you if you like you know shirts and apparel in regards to this podcast is good some good ones i think speaking of which if you didn't already know we have the trooper one just kind of new it's the new stuff if you're on youtube anyway that's just like

the jaco podcast t-shirt Yeah, you know, and there's No doubt what that t-shirt is. Yeah, no doubt. Because it says Jocko podcast. Yeah, it does. Yep, it's true. And, you know, there's, I put layers.

I try to put these different layers on the apparel. It's not just, ooh, Jocka podcast, you know. So there's a little something more to it. Right, right. So I'm not going to say what it is for this one, but there's another layer to it. So if you want, yeah, jocco store.com, if you want to look at it and just, just evaluate it. You like it. Go ahead and get it.

That's a good way to support the podcast. Yes, very much so. Or if you like to disobey. Discipline equals freedom, that one, which we talked about today. What is the, what is sort of the most popular of the T-shirts? It goes in waves. So I'd say generally speaking, discipline equals freedom. Is the solid seller?

Yeah, and that makes sense because, again, like, that's the mantra. Yeah, and that's not, it seems like, oh, it's kind of intriguing as of a thing. Like, discipline equals freedom is kind of counterintuitive, but when you really think about it, I don't know. It's kind of impactful, I think. I think it's a good thing to live by. Anyway. I agree with you. Nonetheless, so maybe that's why, I don't know.

And then the good one is kind of cool. I think that one's more festive, you know. But yeah, there's a few on there, some stickers and some mugs as well. But yeah, if you go on there at jococcaldore.com, like I said. And, you know, whichever one you like, get that one. Yeah, go with it. Appreciate the support. Yep.

well you can also support the podcast by by hitting us up on the interwebs echo is at echo charles and i am at jocco willink that's on twitter on the facebook and even on instagram i primarily respond on the twitter if you have a question but i do look at the other ones as well uh so thanks for supporting that way Thanks for downloading. Thanks for subscribing. Thanks for spreading the word. But most of all, thanks for staying focused on those long-term goals that you have, those dreams that you got.

And for keeping those in mind as you go out there and get after it. And so until next time, this is Echo. And Jocko. Out.