Jocko Podcast - 336: Your Superpower. How To Get It. How To Use It.

Episode Date: June 1, 2022

An time, any place, if you deal with people, use these powers to get what's best for everybody. With Echo Charles.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 336 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. So we've done a lot of reading and discussions and interviews on this podcast about the strategies and tactics from leadership, from human nature that I've seen or I've seen others use or I've used. or I've used myself and you know this is something that I've noticed lately is and this something I used to see in the SEAL teams and now I see it at Escalon front as well where I can sit there and discuss something with someone and think that they understand

how to utilize that lesson immediately so I explain something to someone and I think okay cool you know they get it now right and they'll nod in their head and they'll kind of even give me the of you know what the what the principal means and so I think they get it and it seems pretty obvious from my vantage point but but it isn't always that obvious to everybody and it can be very hard to see things when you're observing them for the first time so a lot of times I like to try and show a tactic or a technique or a strategy or a procedure from a different angle from a different perspective and that's you know in order to try and convey that message to someone

from a different vantage point where they maybe can understand it better and I think I have become biased toward giving someone else's perspective someone else's example and I think that bias comes from the fact that I already know my perspective right so I already know what I think so I I I enjoy or I want to give someone else's perspective of a strategy because I find it interesting because it's someone else's because I already know what's inside my own head, right? I already know what's in there. That being said, when I did the first interview I ever did in my life was with Tim Ferriss

and he asked me if there's anything that I was world class at. And of course I said world class is a very strong phrase to use, right? And he said it is a strong phrase. And I, so I told him I didn't think I was world class at anything, which I still believe I'm not world class at anything. But then I don't know if he reframe the question or if I just kind of reframed it in a way that I could appropriately answer it. And I said something along lines of if I had to say that I had some skill sets that helped me. me, I think that those skill sets would be, number one, being able to take complex things and make them simple and then being able to communicate those things in a simple way that other people

can understand. And then number two was the ability to detach myself mentally and emotionally from whatever situation I'm in. And I believe that allows me to see it more clearly. So those are the two things that I think helped me. throughout my career and that I might be decent at doing. So I wanted to talk through some principles that we reflect on a lot, but in a more pragmatic way, just to ensure,

or at least to help everyone put some of these principles to use in our current environment. And I've also been thinking about talking about how some of the principles that I talk about apply to what is going on today. This is not, what I don't want to do is do some kind of a current events thing. Oh, this is the latest news story. And this is because I don't,

to me, that's not, that's not going to last long, right? People need, if you use a current day example that takes some, you have to understand the backstory behind this news thing so you can apply.

I'm not really looking to do that because I want somebody to be able to listen to this in six years and say, oh, there's a good angle I didn't see before. And this is going to help me with my leadership. situation that I'm in right now. Or it's going to help me with my life the way I'm in right now.

It's going to help me get through, overcome this challenge that I'm facing right now. So to make it a little bit more, evergreen is the term, right? Am I using, what is it, industry terminology, evergreen? I learned evergreen from you. Oh, did you? Evergreen means you can listen to this podcast in 10 years and still makes sense. You're not referring to some random, you know, TMZ news story that, just came out and everybody's hype on it.

But I think we can remain or maintain the evergreen aspect of the podcast and still put in some some of the current events that are going on right now or at least some of the more outstanding current events. And some of this I've done on unraveling with Daryl Cooper. I know we did Afghanistan. We've talked about Ukraine. So there's things that he and I hit on that podcast to kind of discuss from my perspective what's going on with these situations. And even those are difficult because they change so rapidly. Things change so rapidly. And I was just having a conversation about this with JP this morning about, you know, he's heard me say a million times that the first report.

The first report's always wrong. And he was, you know, going through a situation. He's like, hey, is the first report always wrong? I said, yeah. Let me rephrase that. It might not be wrong, but it also might not be right. But you can't just trust. I might need to modify that a little bit where I say you can't trust the first report.

Because if you call me panicked saying, I think the house is on fire, right? Or the house is on fire. The house is on fire. I can't trust that. I have to put it into my calculus. But look, there could have been a smoke bomb. that the teenagers threw through the window and it looks like the house on fire but the house isn't on fire Yeah, right or the house could be on fire

So it could be right. It could be wrong. What I do know about the first report is I can't trust it 100% It's unreliable. It's unreliable so I might need to Gather additional information Makes sense. So speaking of these topics and speaking of something that comes up all the time and that I call a superpower is the ability to to detach. Some people automatically get uncomfortable with that. Because when I say detached, they think, oh, you told me I shouldn't have any emotions at all, right? And it is talking about detaching from your emotions.

It can also mean physically detaching from a situation. But detachment is a superpower. We'll get to the emotional thing and how much you should detach and how much is too much. I think one of the clearest displays of detachment and how powerful it is. Well, one of them I wrote about leadership strategy and tactics, my first platoon doing the clearing the oil platform, but I had that other situation Where I was with Seth and we were he was he had taken over his task unit commander And when he took over his task unit commander he broke his neck Thank God he wasn't paralyzed

So Seth Stone was my was one of the platoon commanders and tasking to bruiser now he's took over as the task unit commander and he's going through his pre-deployment work Workup and I'm in charge of training for all these seal platoons and task units getting ready to deploy and Seth doing a shipboarding where you climb up ladders on two ships from smaller boats The guy he was the last guy to be climbing the ladder because he's the the the task unit commander so he's not gonna be the first guy on deck right? Because he's sort of taking a step back. He's supposed to be detached so he's gonna be the last guy that goes up and as he's going up the person above right let me phrase that right as he was about to start climbing a lat the ladder One of the other guys fell off the ladder and landed square on top of Seth's head from a fall of about like 20 feet and it broke his broke his neck his spinal cord was intact thank God

So now he's in a big neck brace and he but he can still walk around and his his task unit is now going through our land warfare training and so he He's out there observing because he can't participate. And as he's participating or as he's observing and I'm standing there with him observing and it's one of these crazy training exercises. There's total mayhem going on. There's freaking explosions going off. We're using this high speed laser tag system. There's dead people everywhere.

Again, this is training. So they're not actually dead. But their laser tag system is saying that you're dead. So there's body strewn all over the place and no one's moving and no one's making any calls it's a total disaster and they're in in a ravine and the enemy in quotes is in an elevated position and they're just tearing up this Seth's tasking it and Seth he looks at me so can I tell him what to do and I said no I said just let him figure it out and another 30 seconds go by more guys get shot with laser tech it's cool let me use let me help

him and I go not yet another 30 seconds go by more guys get shot and mind you his guys are in this ravine we're actually in the ravine with them now they're kind of prone position or maybe on their knees and we're standing up but we're in the ravine with them and finally he says more guys get shot he goes can I let me help him and I go all right go ahead and he grabs a random dude not a leader just a random guy and he says I remembered exactly what he said the other night he said do I ads which is which is the most broad the most broad instruction to give someone because no one's making any decisions and an I ad is an immediate action drill

which means when you have a play in football what's a play in football tell me like a play right now play that you guys used to run that you were a part of 38 sweet okay so 38 sweep so now everybody knows what to do when you call that give me another one 41 sweep okay 41 sweep now everyone's doing something a little bit different but we're making adjustments so you literally have plays like that and you would say if you were going to tell your football team you'd say call the play right what Seth was saying was do I ads which is the same thing as saying call a play so he just grabs a random dude and it's like hey and some probably some new guy or one cruise

wonder like all freaked out because everyone's getting shot and you know Seth gets in his face like do I ads and the kid looks up at Seth and okay and he makes a call Whatever, whatever 38 sweep or 41 sweep or peel left, peel right, shift, left, shift right, whatever the call was. This kid actually makes a call and almost immediately the problem solved, right? Almost immediately they start executing this play and people start putting down cover fire. Other people start to move in it and it solves the problem. And as they get out of the area and get out of the kill zone, Seth looks at me and he says, it's so easy to see what to do from way up here.

And let me remind you, way up here and that situation was simply that we were standing up. I mean, it wasn't like we were in some elevated position. We weren't in an aircraft flying round over. No, we could just see a little bit more. And by the way, the position we were in where it was a tactically sound position. So just by looking around and not,

not getting tunnel vision and detaching whatever it is, probably 20 inches higher than the other people, because they're on their knees and you're standing up, so you got like what, maybe two feet of additional altitude and you could see everything. And I looked at him and I said, well, I said something along with him. I said, look, we're not, we're with them. We're not way up here.

We're 24 inches above them. And he's like, oh yeah. And I said, but you're looking around. You're detached. says oh yeah and then I said you remember when we went through this training and he says yeah and I said this is what it was like for me all the time and he had a look on his face of sort of recognition kind of like oh dang so all the confusion and chaos that was going on I was always looking at like okay peel left you know shift

right swift what it swing 32 what it was really easy to make the cause because you're looking at it and you can see it and that is the that is the that is the of being able to detach. And it is, you would think that, now this is why I'm talking about this stuff right now. Because you would think if I explain that to you, you go, okay, cool, thanks, Jockel. Now I'm going to detach.

Right? That's what we would hope for. There's a problem. It's not that easy. In fact, this can be very difficult to do. So here are some of the mechanics of being able to detach. And some of these are a little bit like training wheels,

a little bit like learning aids that once you get good at it, you won't need to do it anymore. But you should remember them anyways, because there might be some situations where shit really starts going sideways and you have to go back, put your training wheels on and kind of get it back together. So one of the first training wheels is take a step back.

A physical step back. A physical step back. This is going to change your perspective. It changes your perspective. And here's here's a little, like a little, a little extra advice. And it's weird to say this. Lift your chin up. And look around.

And the reason I say lift your chin up is because when you lift your chin up, you're, you're changing your perspective a little bit, right? Even if it's only by a half an inch when you lift your chin up. up you're kind of opening up your you're opening up yourself you're opening up to new ideas it's the opposite of a fight what are you doing your fight if you're gonna get in a fight yeah yeah you put your chin down you put your hands up so in this situation and again this is a this is like a non-threatening situation so if I if you're coming at me if you're like some kind of hostile or unknown and you're coming at me and you're confronting me obviously I'm not going to lift my chin up and put my hands down that's totally different what I will do

is keep my chin down, lift my hands up. I will step back. I will create space so that I can see more of what's happening. Because I don't know, you got buddies. You know, I don't know if there's what my surroundings have. I don't know if there's weapons available to me. So I'm going to get my hands up, but I am going to broaden my perspective.

Broaden my perspective. And this is something that we talked about when Andrew Huberman was on here. Broadening your perspective, opening up your field of vision, truly calms you. it calms you down. So that's one of the steps of detachment. So take a step back, lift your chin,

look around, and then take a breath. A nice, slow breath. Because this is another thing that's going to calm you down. It's another thing that's going to let you get control

over your emotions. And this is something that people intuitive, you remember when you were a little kid and you'd be having a temper tantrum? I've seen it done, yeah. Okay, when your kids are having a temper tantrum,

have you ever said, like, hey, just take a breath. And this is something even, okay, let me give you a better example. You get hurt or your kid gets hurt and they're, right? Yep. What do you tell them? Hey, take a breath. Calm down, like take a breath.

That's what we tell people to do. That's crazy how you said that example because I was watching old videos of my son, like, did some thing. He tripped over. It was a funny video. But anyway, at the end of the video, he trips over something, falls down. I was like, what kind of, he does near or whatever. Same deal.

And literally played out on the video, but I was just watching that video. So I was like, and so did you tell him take a breath? Yeah. On the video, I was like, oh, I said breathe. Yeah, I was like, breathe. Breathe. And he's trying to be. Yeah.

It's very, very appropriate. When Hickson was on here, Hickson wrote a book called breathe. Right. So there's a reason for this. Yeah. And it's, it's proven by experience of people that have been in pressure situations. And it's proven through doctors who can tell you about the physiological impact of taking a nice slow breath.

So that's what we're doing. This is going to help you detach in these pressure situations. Now listen, here's another little like a note. Let's say you're, let's say you and I work together and you're pissed off. This is a lot different than you and I don't know each other and you're confronting me. Right. That's a self-defense situation. Hands are coming up.

I'm still going to de-escalate. I'm going to step back. I'm going to create space all those things. I'm trying to de-escalate. And by the way, I'm trying to get detached as well. Because let's say, you know, you bumped into, or I bumped into your girlfriend and spilled drinks on you and now you're all mad. Yeah. Right.

I don't know you, but now you're all mad. You're coming at me. Should I escalate my anger because you're coming at me or because you yell, a swear at me and you, you push me? Should I let my anger get me? No, I should not because then bad things are going to happen. Instead, I should be stepping back, creating distance, looking around, getting my hands into a, into a defensive yet non-threatening open aspect towards you. That's what I need to do.

Now, if you and I, but that's in a life threat or a self-defense situation, but in just a normal, you and I are talking and you start getting pissed, but you and I work together, what I'm probably going to do as I step back, as I take a breath, as I broad my field, I'm probably going to just nod my head and let you know that I'm listening to what you're saying.

And we're going to talk more about listening. But that's what I'm, going to do. That's what I'm going to do. And, and as I wrote about in extreme ownership, I'm going to relax, look around, make a call. That's a, that was the earliest way of me trying to teach Seth how to detach was me saying, me writing on his Humvee window, hey, things are going wild. Step one, relax. Step two, look around. Step three, make a call. That's the earliest sort of version of me trying to convey this message to someone I didn't know how to say detach yet didn't it didn't compute I was just trying to tell him the physical act of what to do freaking relax

bro look around see what else is going on okay now make a call now here's the deal on the stuff you can't see anything when you're in the thing you can't see anything when you're in the thing And the solution to the problem isn't in the problem. And look, there's a mass shooting that just happened in a school, horrible. People keep saying, oh, what are you going to say about it? I need to see some afteractions reports. I need to find out what happened. I don't know what happened.

There's one of the things that I could tell you as you train people to handle horrible situations like that, you need to teach people to detach. Because if they're not detached, they can't. see the solution to the problem. All they see is what's right in front of them. So if you've got a shooter, an active shooter in a building and you go into that building and you haven't been trained properly, you're going to get focused on that active shooter. Then if you think, oh, the active shooter isn't an active shooter anymore. It's a barricaded shooter. You're going to, oh, that's a barricaded shooter. Now I'm going to follow this other tactic, technique, or procedure.

Because you're focused on what's right in front of you. You're focused on that piece of information that you have and you're not going to take a step back and go, hey, what's really happening right now? Who can give me a report? Who has accountability for the students? How many students are there? How many are missing? Where are they located? Who's assembling that big picture? You know who's assembling that big picture? Someone that's detached from the situation. And it is not easy to train people to do that. It used to take me a while to get a seal. Sometimes a seal that'd been in for five years, seven years, ten years, to get them to be able to, oh, there's mayhem going on in this building. I need to be the one that takes a step back, looks at the big picture, and figures out what's actually happening.

Putting people through that advanced seal tactical training, the primary purpose with the leaders was for me to get them to learn how to detach. And again, at the time, I didn't say it with these exact words. You know, I'd say, you need to step back, look at the big picture. You know, like I would, I was trying to convey it the best I could at the time. I might have used the word detached. But I know, I would say things like, hey, take a step back, look around. You need to see this stuff. You need to look at the big picture.

That was me trying to get these young seal leaders like Seth Stone. Hey, dude, relax and look around. That's what you need to do. do. Because once we could get those young seal leaders to actually do that, all of a sudden they could solve these complex problems that we would throw up. If they couldn't attach, no, if no one in a platoon detached, no one would solve the problem and they would get slaughtered. If one person could take a step back and say, oh wait, we shouldn't keep going down this hallway or we shouldn't keep moving up this street or we shouldn't keep going up this ravine or we should

We should go backwards right now or we should flank them. If one person can see that, they win. If nobody sees it, they get slaughtered. So my primary goal with the leaders teaching them how to lead, the first thing they had to do is be able to detach. Now, once you detach, then you can see. Then you teach them, okay, here's how you want to use the terrain. Here's the effective way to maneuver.

Here's where you want to concentrate your forces. Like all those things are great. If you can't detach, you can't do any of those things. It's a lot harder than it looks. It's a lot harder than it seems and the hype and the emotion and the energy it tends to make us not want to detach and The natural tendency that we have as human beings is to focus on what's right in front of us This is the natural tendency that's how we survived as hunter-gatherers As a hunter-gatherer you either okay if you're a hunter guess what you got to be focused on you see movement and it's a freaking

in pig that you're going to slaughter, kill with a bone arrow or spear or whatever, you need to hyper focus on that thing. As an individual human, you need to hyper focus on that thing. If you're walking around and you see movement and it's a tiger, you need to focus on that thing. It needs to become your number one priority. In order to survive, you need to focus. You need to get hyper focused.

And that's what we're programmed for. And there's sometimes, as an individual, you've got to do that sometimes. It's actually a great thing to have. you know you're walking down the street and all of a sudden the car's coming up on the sidewalk you focus on that thing so you can avoid it you've think of you ever seen that uh like when they're trying to get a robot to like catch a ball it's it has to do eight billion calculations in point two seconds to catch a ball i don't even know if a i don't know if there's a there's a robot that can catch like a fastball from a from a pitcher yeah like a humanoid robot yeah like a humanoid robot

even one with the size, like with a glove the size of a catcher's mitt or like a, I can almost guarantee you that they can't make one that could hit a baseball bat. I don't know.

I've never seen one if that's, there's a billion little calculations that have to get made. And I've also heard like baseball players when that, when the ball leaves the pitcher's hand, like they're already predicting where it's going to be. I mean,

obviously they are because they can hit it with a freaking skinny little back. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So there's times where this is fully beneficial. And that's what our natural tendency is, is to get focused on this thing. That's right in front of us.

But as leaders, and honestly in some situations, as individuals, you're gonna have a problem if you do that. And I think, I was thinking about this, I don't know if I'm 100% right, but it mostly has to do when you're dealing with humans, when you're dealing with a human threat. Because humans, because humans do coordinated attacks.

Yeah, right? Sure. Like, oh, a wolf, you might get attacked by a pack of wolves. You'll lose just because they all attack you at the same time. Yeah. You might get eaten by a pack of sharks,

but it's not because one distracted you and the other one snuck up. You know what I'm saying? There's a difference between mob attacks, which I think is what most animals do. And what humans do, do, which is humans are setting you up like a sucker and flanking you, right? That's what humans do.

That's what a, that's what like a sucker punch is, right? Oh, sucker punch is like, oh, you're there talking to me and I'm like, oh, I'll beat you. And boom, my buddy punches you in the side of the head or hit you with a bottle from behind. That's what humans do. Humans are savages. And so even as individuals, sometimes if you get target fixation, you're going to have a problem. So when we're in complex situations, there could be an emergency, right? Emergency, a fire, a vehicle accident.

There's a lot of stuff going on. Combat situations, obviously. And you know what else? This is where you make that mental transition. An argument with someone. Maybe not even argument, but a debate with someone. You ever seen someone get lured in in an argument and just flanked? Yeah.

And it's because they didn't detach. a few good men. Yes. Right? That whole thing is just a big flank, right? I'm going to get this guy so mad and so emotional that when I ask him this question, he's going to expose himself.

And that's what Tom Cruise does, right? You're goddamn right, I ordered the code read. That's exactly what he does. The colonel in that movie, Jack Nicholson? Nickleson, yes, sir. Jack Nicholson, he didn't detach. No.

He could have seen through the, that so easily he could have been like no that I absolutely would not order that you could if he was calm yeah he didn't that's a perfect example that is how we can let this idea bite us yeah so if perhaps what's the colonel's name in that movie Jessup if if Colonel Jessup maybe if he would have gone through my land warfare train back in the day you know I'm like oh I'm about to get flanked by homeboy by young Tom Cruise.

Colonel Jessup would have said, actually, no, negative. There's no way I'd give that order, but instead he got emotionally, he got flanked like a little punk. So imagine how much that happens to us or can happen to us. So that's what we have to learn how to do in everything. And here's a little connection I'm going to make for you. There's a connection between being humble and being able to detach. And the connection is, if you're not humble,

if you got a big ego, you think you're the center of the world, right? You think you're, you think you are the center of the world. And when you think you're the center of the world, you can't see anyone else's emotions. You can't see anyone else's moves. Their moves don't even mean anything to you. Because you're just looking at everything is jocococentric, echo centric.

It's all about me. So I don't see that you're getting mad. I don't see that you're getting frustrated. And that's what we have to be careful about. Because if you think you're the most important thing and you've got that gravity, it's pulling everything in and, and all like other ideas, they don't make it. Other, nothing else can survive this strong gravity that you go. You don't see anything else.

What's the difference between detaching and situate, you know, I say situational awareness, right? What's, I mean, is there a difference? They're, they're, they're, uh, if they're not the same thing, then they're damn close. Oh, yeah. I would say, actually, I would, I would say this. Detachment is senior to situational awareness. If you don't, if you're not detached, you're not going to have any situational awareness. Yeah.

If you are detached, you will have much more situational awareness. Detachment is senior because. Not only am I detached so I can see what's happening in the situation. I'm also aware of my emotions. I'm aware of your emotions. Does the situation include everything? Okay, then they're probably the same thing. If we're saying that situation overall includes your emotions, my emotions,

our physical space that we're in, everything that's occurring. If that's the situation, okay, then they're probably pretty close to the same thing. I generally think of situational awareness as to being what's our physical thing that's happening. but it's not too much different to say, oh, echo's a possible attacker. Yeah, yeah. Is he agitated? Yeah, exactly.

That would be situational awareness. Oh, I can see he's frustrated. I can see his fists are clenched. Okay, that's all situational awareness. So they're really similar things. But I think, I still think detachment is a senior element. Yeah. Because if you don't have detachment, it ain't happening.

You're not going to have situational awareness. at all. Yeah, it feels like most of the times anyway that you bring up detaching is when you're kind of in when the chaotic situation kind of already started, where it's almost like I guess you can constantly be detached though, right?

I mean, not completely. Like how you said, I mean, you know, every time I heard you explain it, you're like, don't go too far with this thing, right? You don't care about nothing or whatever, but it seems like detaching when I imagine it, I guess, is yeah, when something like happens to kind of escalate,

or whatever and then it's like okay then you should kind of detach or whatever and you know what there's a good point check this out the the black belt he's likely not even going to get the situation to a point where he has to attach because he's already attached and he sees it coming he doesn't have to worry about it because he already outflanked it that's the game that's the game that's what we're trying to do unless he's going up against another black belt unless he's going up against another black belt then thus begins the psychological game within the game. Yeah. And then you end up in straight Jiu-Jitsu where how many moves ahead, you know, am I to you? Am I five moves ahead and

you're only four? I'm gonna win. If I'm five moves ahead, but you're seven, you're gonna win. That's what's happening. So there is a connection between the more self-centered we are, the less the rest of the world matters, and therefore it's hard to step outside of your own world yeah maybe that's a better way of putting it yeah it seems accurate you know for instance a little kid that loses their temper yeah why is that because they're there the whole world in the store yeah in the store they don't care about anything else they want that freaking ice cream cone that's what's that's what's up so they don't care about anything else yeah and they're not gonna be able to detach at all yeah

and they don't care about anything else that's when so the the younger you are you're really important yeah so we have to be careful with that here's another little element detachment is what actually allows you to think strategic it's what actually allows you to think strategic because the the definition of of what I started with of saying hey I'm worried about the person that's shooting me right now that's a short-term thinking now do I have to focus on that right now because I'm getting shot at yes I do the minute I eliminate that threat I better take a step back and look around and get my platoon into position where

I don't have to worry about threats so I can see where we need to go next. So unless we are detached, unless you take a minute, you know, if you're in business and every day you show up to work, the phones ring and the emails are coming in, you're solving this problem for a client, you're dealing with operations, you're dealing with sales, you've got all these problems, you're just, that's what you're doing all day. Cool, but you're not detached and therefore you're thinking about tactical things that are right in front of you and you might win the day tactically, but you look up in six months and you've got some issues

because you didn't order enough material for the next project and you didn't hire enough. Like all these problems are happening. Strategic problems are happening. So unless you're able to detach, you're not able to think strategic. So think about how this impacts your life.

I mean, this is, this is, you know, from you, Echo Charles, you've said before to me that the most important thing that you've taken away from hanging out with me for the last however many years is thinking, strategic instead of tactical.

And the way that translates to the civilian world is you think long term instead of short term. And I agree with you. And we have a, you've heard me say before and you pulled a clip from one of the musters where a guy asked me, you know, how often should I think strategic? And I said you should think strategic all the time. Yeah. You said it different. Yeah, I was a little more amped at the time. But if you can't detach, if you don't detach, if you don't.

take a step back you are not thinking strategic yeah that's why this is like a superpower detachment allows you to not focus on the short term it avoids tactical thinking now it also avoids you getting emotional and making bad decisions because that's when you make bad decisions are you guaranteed to make a bad decision where you're emotional no but i mean there's a real good chance pretty reliable yeah it's pretty reliable that an emotional decision is not the best decision it's pretty reliable now Does this mean I'm sitting there saying and for everyone that's, you know, out there going, oh, you know, you're saying you shouldn't have any emotions. That's actually not what I'm saying at all.

What I'm saying is you shouldn't let your emotions run your decisions. Yeah. Control over your emotions does not mean not having emotions because emotions are important. We like to say. Yes, sir. Emotions are important. Um, my emotions are important. My team's emotions are important.

My boss's emotions are important. The competitor or the enemy emotions are important. And I, okay, how can they be important? Well, if I, if you're mad about something that you need to do, are you going to do a good job when you do it? If you work for me, are you going to do your best job? If on the contrary, if you're super excited about something, are you going to do a good job? Yeah. What if you're my enemy and you're a.

Morale is low and you're emotionally drained. Is it going to be an opportune time to fight you? Yes, it is. What if you're, what if I've done something to your people and now you're mad and you're going to fight with vengeance? You're angry. Is that a good time for me to attack you from what? You're my enemy?

No. What about my boss? My boss is super angry about something. Is now a good time to present a new solution to it? No. Is that like the old classic, don't tell your wife to come. down that is part of the classic don't tell your wife to calm down because like yeah she's not she's emotional whatever or and vice versa I this isn't you know

but the yeah when you say hey calm down that's not a good move does not a strategic so you can see how emotions play into each one of those elements that I just talked about yeah so I have oh by the way I have to know my emotions too right if I've got some massive task and I know I'm already drained or angry about it. If I've got some delicate, if I'm mad at you and yet I've got to go and discuss a project with you

and I'm already mad that you didn't do something, is that a good time for me to go in there and talk to you? No, it's not. So what I need to do and a way to think, the emotions, our own emotions and other people's emotions up down and across the chain of command need to be in the calculus of our decision making.

That's what I need to do. And a lot of times, in current times, this is 20, 22, we don't take other people's emotions into our calculus. So you have to measure. You have to measure if and how what you are going to say, how it's going to impact your family, if it's going to impact your family, your team, yourself. You have to measure that.

Is it going to make them angry? Is it going to make them upset? Is it going to make them lose motivation? Is it going to crush their morale? And if you don't put that, if you don't put all the emotional element into the calculus, you're going to get the wrong answer. And by the way, you won't be able to assess any of these emotions if you're not detached. You won't see your own emotions.

You won't see other people's emotions. You won't be like, oh, my wife is mad right now because you're mad. So you don't see them as being mad. And even if you do see them as being mad, you're mad, so you just get mad at them for being mad. What you have to do is be able to detach and get some level of control over your emotions. So when I talk about detaching from your emotions,

I'm not talking about having no emotions. And by the way, if you detach from your emotions too much and now you're interacting with your team, your team just thinks you're a jerk. That's what's happening. So yeah, like you don't care. Oh yeah, like you don't care. Oh, that's a huge deal.

Like when your boss doesn't care, is it distracted or just when you have that feeling is what I'm saying. Yep. Yeah. Or if you give that feeling to your wife. Oh yeah. You know, something that's, you're talking about to me is all you're talking about. It's like the, because that kind of is the deal, right? Where you like, you lit every single list item or everything, every topic you talked about literally has directly to do.

I mean, look, some people are not married. I get it. But if you are even girlfriend, boyfriend, boyfriend scenario, whatever, that applies. to you and your wife 100% oh yeah it's like the and your kids so the kids there's a you explain yeah you it's more like I don't know it's like it is the same thing it's the same format for sure but and you explain this too where it's like your kids are going to be different than like other people because when you have kids that's a very unique relationship it's very unique they're like you can't you can't just switch out one kid for another kid and make the connection

you're so close to me what's the connection The emotions. The emotions. Yeah. Connection. That's what makes it, you know, your emotional attachment to your kids is so strong. It's so strong that you have to be even more cautious in how you and how you calculate the emotions up and down the chain. So it's kind of like the difference between a muffin and a cupcake.

But I don't know the difference between those two. It's the same thing. One just has more sugar in it. Is that the truth? I don't know. Which one has more sugar? Cupcake. Okay.

See what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. I guess. The kids have more sugar. They have more emotions. More emotions. Are involved in the equation. But you handle them the same way.

Try not to eat them. Yeah. 80 to 90% of the time. See what I'm saying? Yep. Yep. So you can't see any of these emotions if you're not detached. So go back to the first topic of the day.

Take a step back. Relax. Look around. Take a breath. Get detached. and then put the emotions, comprehend the emotions, put them into your calculus as you're making decisions, as you're communicating with people, and that's going to put you in a different, put you in a better scenario. Now, here's another thing that you can utilize for detachment, which is

very powerful, not just for detachment, but for life and definitely for leadership. And that is actually listening to what other people are saying. And I've been saying for a couple years now, listening is the most underrated skill in leadership. And I think I have to take it a little bit further. And I was thinking about a good way to explain listening because listening doesn't just mean be quiet. Okay, Echo's talking now as soon as you're done.

I'm ready to present my ideas back at you. I don't know where we did this. I think we probably just did this on a Q&A a while ago, but people have often asked me, what is my process for reading a book? And I've talked through my process for reading a book, and reading a book for the podcast, really. So if I'm reading a book for the podcast,

I'm going to read it actively. It's an active reading. I'm not passively, the words aren't just coming into my head and there they are. No, I'm actively reading the words. That means I am putting the words into context in my own head in the story that it is and then how my mind understands that story and what the context in the story is and then how that context fits in my head. Because let's face it, if I'm reading with the old breed, there's context to that story, to that particular sentence, that particular paragraph, that particular word, there's context around it. And it's not just a word and it's not just a sentence.

It's not just a paragraph. There's a whole, there's a whole world there that you have to try and understand this context that you have to have. And then you have to put it into your own context. And look, you don't have to have been in combat to understand or to put your own context around it. You go, oh, these guys haven't eaten for six days. Hey, I remember yesterday I didn't have any lunch And by the end of the day

I was starving God Now these guys are at six days You see what I'm saying? You have to really try and engage your own brain And overlay your own experiences on it And try and understand And truly put yourself into other people's perspective What do they know that that I can try and understand?

So to me That's active. Really active reading. And that's what we need to do with listening. Actively listen. Actively try and understand what you're trying to say. Actively try and understand your perspective. What does Echo know that I don't know right now?

How can I actively try and understand what he's saying? And of course, one of the biggest obstacles to truly listening is how? listening is having a big giant ego and I think echo no he's not going to my you know what I mean like oh hey Jocko you know I always put my arm over I always put my hips over here on an arm I go oh echo's trying to give me instructions on jiu jitsu you know what I'm saying that's what our ego gets in the way because how could anybody possibly know anything more than me so we don't really listen and I think I think that as we look at society today,

there is a lot of talking and not a lot of listening. And it turns into mayhem. And here's the thing. Talking, no listening, and therefore no bridges, no common ground found, no changes of opinion.

People don't change opinion, right? I got my opinion, I'm right, I'm not going to change my opinion. That's where people are at. That's where the vast majority of people are at. Seems like, yeah. Well, I shouldn't even say the vast,

that's where the loudest people are at, I guess is worth saying. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's an issue. I think it's a huge issue. I think it's an issue for myself, even, like a lot of the time.

It's an issue for everybody, myself, everybody that's everybody that's in the world. Is, hey, I kind of know the deal here. Yeah. I know this. You're not going to tell me anything that I don't know. And what's horrible about that is, you know, if you were presenting a plan to me for an operation and I have a difference of opinion than you, but I don't listen to what you're saying,

are we going to come up with a better plan or a worse plan? It's going to be a worse plan. Whereas if I go, oh, Echo's presenting a plan to me, let me truly actively listen to what he's saying. Let me see how that fits into the idea that I have. And where's the common ground? Oh, and we got some contradictory ideas? Okay, cool. Who's right?

And you know what I actually say? How is echo right? That's the biggest trick right there. When it comes to leadership, one of the biggest tricks in leadership is how is echo right? I'm the leader, but how is echo right? How can I make echo right? How can I listen to him?

How can I give him the advantage here? Not how can I put it? I don't want you to be wrong. I want you to be right. So that's what we have to do. Now when we listen, just like reading, when we actively listen, we actively read, ask yourself or ask them and yourself earnest questions.

Put yourself in their shoes in real life, and this is hard to do. In real life, in real life, truly, how would I feel if I were that person? And you know, sometimes like, You know Echo Let's see echo Didn't pay for his phone. He got his phone caught off right? So I go

What a loser Like he he he's an idiot. He deserves it. Yeah, that's as far like oh well, okay if I was in Echo shoes and I didn't pay my phone bill and it got caught off I would think I was a loser that's like my Right perspective instead of saying all right, what's the situation he's in? How did he end up here? What doesn't he understand about the world that I understand? How come he doesn't understand those things? That's what it is. It's like it takes effort.

Yeah. It takes effort to get there. Instead of just writing it off and I put, I take my entire worldview and I take your little chunk of experience that you had by not paying your phone bill. And I go, oh, in my worldview, you're a loser. Yeah. That's true.

So true. And so then what, how can I help you? I can't. I can't help you. I can't help myself. I can't help anybody else. All I say is, oh, anyone that does that's a loser. It doesn't solve anything.

So that's what I think is a huge piece for us is as a leader and as a person. And look, those two terms for me are kind of interchangeable. I don't know. That sounds crazy. But as this is something that I started saying, I think, when leadership strategy and tactics came out, which is if you interact with other human beings, you're in a leadership position.

It doesn't matter if you're, it doesn't matter if you're the boss. Yeah. And I'm the subordinate and I'm the only subordinate you have. I'm still on a leadership position. It doesn't matter if I have one peer and we, and I don't see you even though you're the boss and I have one peer, I'm still in a leadership position.

If you interact with other people, you're in a leadership position. you're trying to lead them to do the right thing, to move in the right direction. And does this mean you're always like trying to influence? No, because I might be like, oh, Echo's giving me some direction. It seems like a good call. Cool. I'm going to go execute.

I don't need to like, well, hold on. Let me give you my perspective. No, no, I'm not talking about that at all. Am I trying to build a relationship with you? Yes, I am. Am I trying to build a relationship so that I can better support you in the future? If you happen to tell me something to do, that doesn't make sense? Sure.

Yeah, it's good that you differentiate pretty often, too, the difference between the and what you call the traditional leader and you know what and what but what's the other one you don't have a term for the other one well no I certainly do the silent leader silent leader yeah you're right now so okay so in even though you don't talk about that part we just we just mentioned like um but usually it's kind of like uh the silent leader is more of like sort of an maybe influencer type not influencer like how we know it today but uh like you know someone who just wants to influence people to do the right thing for every everybody essentially right and then the traditional leader is the guy who wants to be the boss

and wants everyone to listen to what they said everyone listen to me yeah which is the opposite of everything I just talked about which I'm saying if you're a leader you'd be listening yes exactly right but I think that even the word leader and I've said this before where the word leader feels like it the like the boss that because there are people like that yeah the Trish yeah and because there's people like that like we all know somebody at least one person probably you know, 20 people who are like that where it's like, yeah, you can tell they want to always take charge. They want, they always want people to listen to them. They always want to do it their way, you know, kind of thing.

And, you know, for better or worse or whatever. I'm just saying that that's when you think of the word leader. That's kind of what you think of automatically in one way or another. Absolutely. That's one of the, one of the, I guess, long-term campaigns for me as a human being on earth is to convince people and let them know that, Even if you're a brand new guy in a seal platoon, you're in a leadership position. A brand new guy with no experience,

you're in a leadership position. Even if you're a brand new construction worker with no experience, you're in a leadership position. Even if you're a lineman out there, you're an apprentice lineman. You have no skills. You're in a leadership position. So of the four laws of...

Here's the thing. There's no escaping. Unless you're a hermit, you're a leader. So there's no escaping it, unless you may be a newborn baby. I don't know. But, and this is, This is what I gathered, you know, listening to you guys.

So, you know, the fourth law of combat, right? Decentralized command, as we know as decentralized. And the, what is that, the tagline or whatever, everybody leads, right? So even if you are the leader designated across the, you're the boss either. You're the body at a company, whatever. You're the dad of the family, whatever, whatever. You were the straight up boss. But decentralized command, which laws of combat,

says everybody leads. So even the people who are subordinate to you, quote unquote, they have to lead and whose job is it for them to know how to lead, your job. So everyone's the leader, no matter if you're the boss or not. Like you can be the new guy, whatever, and most of us aren't the new guy in a seal platoon, I'll tell you that.

You may or may not know that, but most of us are not, but like if you're just the new guy at work, or you're the youngest brother, or you know, you're the, You know, I've heard and I have this scenario. I'm going to call it hypothetical, even though it might not be hypothetical. It's not me. That's true. But as someone of some people I know where the husband feels a little bit, what do you call it?

Like emasculated sometimes. And not by any abuse or anything like that, but it's just, I think it's like a classic case of, you know what you hear? Like the husband's always trying to like happy wife, happy life, kind of a thing and maybe went too far with it. And maybe now he finds himself in a position where he's like, he's just responding and doing everything that the wife says the wife doesn't seem happy. Kind of a scenario. I feel like with this attitude that like if you understand 100%, 100%, not just like my situation, sure, I guess I could kind of, if you understand 100% that you are essentially you have the responsibility to be the leader,

and I'm not saying to be the boss, not same time. It always feels like that ends up being absolutely current. as far as solving any problems within any interpersonal relationship. So let me just restate your comment there. What you're saying is no matter where I am in a relationship, in a platoon, in a business, in a marriage, if my attitude is, I'm in a leadership position, I'm going to lead through this problem.

The silent leader way. That's going to be a positive thing. Yes, sir. Yeah, you are correct. Absolutely like it that's why at Eschlam front that's why we say leadership is the solution yes and it doesn't matter what the problem is Yeah, uh Wife's not happy leadership problem on on me by the way yeah on me now look could can you occasionally get A miserable scenario yeah where oh the wife is well there's probably and actually what you end up there is if you if you break that down from a leadership perspective

You're probably not aligned in your marriage yeah Because that's the one kind of killer. There's one, that's one killer. So when I say leadership is a solution, leadership is a solution to all your problems. There's one problem that leadership is the solution for, but you're not going to solve the problem. That is alignment.

That is we are not going to the same place. So if your business partner is going in one direction, like to a different place and you're going in another direction, And it's a different place. You're going to have a really, you won't be able to make decisions that are unified. If your wife, you know,

if your wife wants to, you know, have 20 kids and you don't want to have any, you're not going to be able, you're not going to be able to work it out. There's no working that out, right? You are heading to a different place. You're going to a different world.

Right? You're going to two totally different places. Vice versus true too. You want to, wait, what did I say? Your wife want to ask 20 kids. If it's the opposite, it's the same thing. You want to have 20 kids. Your wife doesn't have any.

You're going to have a problem. It's going to be a difficult situation. You're probably, you're not aligned. If one person wants to have a software company and I want to, you know, you and I start designing a little computer game thing. And then you say, hey, we should start building these in a factory. after we make three of them by ourselves. And I say, no, let's just contract and we do that.

We should just make the software. And you go, no, no, we should make the hardware. And I say, no, we should make the software. And if you and I can't agree, we're heading to do different places, we're going to have two different companies and you need to go do yours and I need to go do mine. So where leadership plays. Now that is I need to be able to identify where are we actually going? What is our goal?

And here's the thing. In most companies, you can find the alignment. That's why people say, we're not aligned. I go, hold on a minute. Oh, you got a company, you know, you got Acme freaking mouse traps, right? Yeah, Mouse traps. Echo's got Acme mouse traps. And he says, oh, people on my team aren't aligned.

Okay, what do they not want to be able to make money? No, of course they want to make money. Do they, does everyone on the team want to make money? Yes, everyone on the team wants to make money. Does everybody on the team want to make a good mousetrap? Yes, everybody on the team wants to make a good mousetrap. Does everyone want to serve the client? Yes.

Because if we serve the client, we'll sell them mousetraps. So you can usually find you take any company and most of the 99 this is a big percentage 99% of the time there's alignment and in a rare 1% we're not aligned and you actually don't want to make mouse traps or you don't want to manufacture mouse traps let's say I want to build a factory and manufacture mouse traps and all you want to do is market them and you don't want any of this factory stuff you don't want to hire a bunch of people you just want to get them shipped from overseas you're not going to have a problem yeah we're not aligned we're not aligned I want to build a manufacturing company you want to build a marketing company and we're adamant about it

now look we might be able to find alignment and say hey you know what if we build manufacture them and then you market them well we kind of aren't the same page yeah but if your true goal is not to manufacture anything and my true goal is we're going to have a problem so So alignment is one of the most critical things there are. In order to get there, guess what I gotta listen to what you have to say. Yeah. And if we're not aligned, we're gonna have a problem.

So we gotta pay attention to that. And this brings me to the last thing I wanted to talk about today. And this is something, you know, I've probably focused on it a little bit more a few years ago with a simple statement that you'll recognize I say this, free your mind. Right?

We did all kinds of things where I said, free your mind. I'm going to occasionally like post like free your mind. Sure. Because our minds tend have a tendency to be closed and not just to be closed but to be closing. So that's the way our human minds are. In general, they tend to be closed and closing. So they're already closed up and they're trying to close even more. Why is that?

Well, it's safer. It's easier. I'm not learning anything. There's no risk. There's nothing to misunderstand. It's just easier across the board. If I just close up my mind, I don't have to accept anything new. I'm safe here.

I'm used to it. We also have our ego involved. And our ego is keeping that mind shut because I don't want to have to admit that I'm wrong. I don't want to have to tell anybody else. that they're right. Yep. I don't want to look like I don't know all the answers. So I stay in my own little world.

You know, it's like, oh, I'm a boxer. So I'm not gonna do Jiu-Jitsu. Remember those days? Like, no, box, you know, oh, you try and take me out. I'm just gonna knock you out. Yeah. Remember those days? Yeah.

Like it's crazy talk now, but that was a real thing. Well, I don't have to learn Jiu-I'll just knock you out. Yeah. Okay. How'd that work out, bro? But that's a closed mind. And that's ego. Thinking oh, I don't need to learn anything new

I have all the answers. Oh, I got that upper cut son and no look. I love boxing Boxing is an awesome form of self-defense that everybody should learn how to box You should absolutely learn how to box. There's two you know your your fists are great weapons You should also learn moitai because your elbows and your knees are good weapons as well You should also learn wrestling because you got to build take so you see where I'm going with this But there was a time where strikers boxers kickboxers would say oh I don't need to learn Jiu-jitsu because I'll just knock you out and that was just arrogance and ego

and and part of it is also might have been just ignorance not just arrogance but ignorance yeah because could you think oh someone's gonna charge it me I'll just knock them out yeah man so much harder than you think yeah I'm sure there was a lot to that there was there's a thing called sunk cost fallacy oh for sure for sure so yeah and that's what Horan Gracie, one of the founders of Jiu-Jitza, that's what he would say, where it's like it's a painful realization when you realize that you spent 20, sometimes 30 years at this, in effortful, just hard work, you know, doing this heart.

Yeah. And then without it being proved to you, like, you're not going to admit that it was a mistake. You just can't do it. You have too much invested in it, you know? Yeah, that was a very, you want to talk about a very hard thing. to have happened to you. Yeah. Is you've been training whatever martial art, whatever,

and they use this, do they use the term traditional martial art? Yes. So you've been training a traditional martial art, take your pick for 24 years. And like you said, hard training. You've memorized the cada. Oh, yeah. You've done the drills. You've done the, the sparring even.

And then, so you're 20 years deep, 25 years deep. You've competed even, competed. And you've knocked people out and stuff. And you've won. You've been a champion, all these things. And then all of a sudden, someone comes in and says, none of that's going to work. Yeah.

And by the way, it's going to work. What I do is going to work 10 times out of 10. Like that's what my percentages are. So you're a boxer and I'm a jiu jitzyu guy. I'm going to take you down and choke you 10 times. in a row. It seems unbelievable, right? They go 100 times maybe someone gets a lot, gets a punch and someone gets knocked out, right? But I can, I can law of averages say you're a 100% boxer and I'm a jihitsu guy. 10 times out of 10. So if you, you and I go, okay, cool, let's go

again. You try and knock me out. You're getting taken down. You're getting choked. Let's go again. You're trying to knock me out. You're going to get takedown and choked out. That's what's happening. So that was a really. hard hard fact to face yeah and it happened it happened across the country as jiu jitzy blue belts yeah blue belts were dojo storming like walking into walking into traditional martial arts studio I'll take anybody in here yeah and then double leg double leg you know cross-side the people even know what the guard was it wasn't like they were getting in the guard they were just mounting and

choking yeah yeah and that and now it's kind of the especially I mean nowadays is different because different you know like and here's kind of in a way it's kind of more the same though right where we're okay so you look at the UFC right the pinnacle of like nowadays it's not you see one is different than UFC now oh so you see one was this art style versus style this style this style actually you know what you're right it wasn't just style versus art yeah because even in jiu jitzu we have different styles of jiu jih Tzu yeah that's true too so it was literally a jiu jiu jitsu practitioner

against a boxer Right. Or a wrestler against an Aikido guy. Yeah. Or whatever. You name it was art against art. Oh, yeah. And they didn't even really calculate the fact that there's a huge difference between somebody

that wrestled in high school, somebody that wrestled in college and somebody that wrestled in the Olympics. Or someone that did judo at the judo club, someone that did judo in college and someone that did judo on the Olympic stage. There's a huge difference between, but they didn't really calculate that. Yeah, not really. And I guess I'm just maybe speaking on what actually played itself out, right? So UFC 1 and before UFC 1, there was Gracie in action, the Gracian action tapes, right?

Which was essentially one-on-one challenges. By the way, I have James's. James, if you're out there listening right now, I have your Gracian action tapes. Sorry. Whereas I don't know what that is, what it is essentially guys would come in, doubting this new jiu-jitsu thing. They were like, oh, I would beat them. you know and the graces they would say yeah you can come and challenge any one of our guys or

whatever and then after so many people responded to that challenge they started taping it and they would just beat these guys up not bad it wasn't a bully situation it was literally like to prove to them that hey this way is better at fighting that's it's not like you know we're going to kill everyone or nothing like that so just time after time of time and then if you see it um you can see the guy and this is on a bunch of them too where the guy would be like oh um like almost like he's saying that didn't count. Yeah. Like he didn't get it.

Yeah. I have personally experienced that. Oh, yeah. That's a common thing. Yeah. I was lucky because I was doing jujitsu, kind of like legitimately doing jujitsu before it was popular at all. Yeah.

So I kind of had some of those Gracie inaction experiences where guys were just confused. Yeah. Like just legitimately. And I found that usually three or four submissions before they even start to comprehend what's happening. The first one, they're just baffled. You know, you're going against a wrestler. You're going against a boxer.

Wrestlers would get especially confused because it just didn't make sense of what just happened. Like a boxer, I guess a boxer would be so confused. They're like, wait, what are we doing on the ground? What, why am I down there? Is this fighting? This isn't fighting. How can you knock me out when we're, oh, they just, you just got your arm broke or you just got tapped out. Wrestlers would be, it would be confusing to them because they don't even understand.

how these body positions that they've learned and that they've won and that they seem to have so much control all of a sudden they're not working and they're getting tapped out but yeah so like the first submission is total disbelief they're like it's confusion and disbelief and then okay let's go again because they think oh i i will keep my i won't let them grab my arm yeah exactly exactly and they don't let you grab their arm and then you choke them yeah and that's how how horian describes it um in a lot of those videos is it's like you can't they can't accept it right so they're so they'll be like oh wait I just need to go harder like I maybe was taking it easy thing on him maybe I got to focus a little bit more you know go faster go harder yeah exactly right um but just like how you said if you don't know

the positions you're just sort of on the ground like you don't know like even like the difference between garden and half guard if you don't know what any of that even is there's no difference Guard mount nothing there's no difference you will not remember you have no do you remember if you're on the bottom you'll remember versus if you're not on the bottom okay there is that but in jiu-jitsu that part doesn't matter as much you see I'm saying so it's backwards almost if you know jiu-jitsu versus if you if you if you don't so these guys would be just confused the whole time and then all of a sudden they're getting choked and then if you don't know how it happens you

just like oh we just sort of wound up like that so it seems kind of like a lucky position we fell on the ground it was a scramble and you just you know ended up that way meanwhile since they know they need new jiu-jitsu, they're methodically, specifically placing these guys in this position, then this position, then this position, then they can joke. And then they do it every, like, one time after another, after another, and then finally the guy accepts it. Now, and this is back in the Gracie inaction days.

So UFC 1, you don't have that luxury to be like, hey, let's do it again. Yeah. But still nobody knew what was going on. No, I know what's happening. Now, keep in mind the difference between back then and today is back then no new jiu-jitsu at all. They only knew their karate. They only knew their, you know, yeah. you know kickboxing they only knew their art now everyone knows everything yeah it's

totally in one way or another like if you say hey show me mount product of course mount that's basic everyone knows everyone knows i don't get this can be literally a karate guy yeah like remember leota machida right when it was like oh see karate does work and all the karate guys were like yeah we were saying this for years we always knew karate or yeah bro leota machida's black belt thing he's a black belt yeah and he's probably black belt level in a bunch of other things you know so it's just a different landscape that's not the proving ground from for art versus art anymore. Yeah.

It's different. Well, even I just made people mad just now, three minutes ago when I said, well, a boxer against the, there's still some people out there that are like, bro, just knock this dude out when he came in on me. There's still people like that right now. Even having the incredible vast sources of knowledge. And again, I love boxing. Everyone should train boxing 100%.

Boxing is a brutal martial art. and it's an incredible martial art. But if you're a pure boxer and you're going up against a jujitsu guy, you're going to get choked out. I regret to inform you. So here's the thing. This is why I talk about opening up your mind. Because even when you choke someone, their mind doesn't want to open up.

Then you arm lock them, their mind doesn't want to open up. Then you footlock them. Their mind still. They're still thinking like what you're saying. They're still like, no. Their mind, this is such a good example of how people's minds, how all of our minds wants to be closed because our ego is keeping it shut. We want to be in that safe area.

We've got the sunk cost into what we've already done and what we already believe. And that is a problem. It's a problem for the world. So what we have to do, and I've been explaining this to people, for at Eschelon front I've been explaining this to people we actually have to pry open our minds we have to pry open our minds you have to be you have to force yourself to listen you have to force yourself not just to listen but to actually hear what other people are saying you have to force yourself to consider other ideas and honestly the way that I force myself to consider other

ideas is I want to use your idea that's my goal my goal is I want echo to be right when echo says hey I've got a plan for how to do this my goal is to say that sounds good let's use your plan how can I help you make this work when my subordinate comes to me with a plan and says hey Jockle this is what I think we should do my goal is to use it when you present an idea to me about politics or music or a video my goal is to say okay how can I be on board with what you just said how can I how can I support you and that's what I do to try and pry my brain open because our minds are naturally closed and they are closing so even when your mind gets open up a little bit it's

still trying to close back up that's what it's trying to do it's pride open and it closes back up that's what it's trying to do we have to work very hard to pry it open and then keep it open to new ideas you know how like we in regards to like using the other person's plan or you know like pursuing that is like a as a way how does that how does that justify you know because you know how sometimes and again I'm thinking about maybe with your friends when you're young or you know with your wife or something and it's like hey what are we doing for dinner or where are we going to go and then it's like I don't know where do you want to go I don't know where you want to go right you get

That scenario happens sometimes, right? So how do you reconcile using the other person's plan in general versus making the decision yourself kind of a scenario? No, I mean, look, just like anything, there's a dichotomy. And if I say to my wife, where do you want to go for dinner? And she says, I don't care where do you want to go. And I say, oh, I'm actually open for anything. I had a late lunch, so I'm not that hungry. And I know you haven't eaten today.

So whatever you want is good with me. And then she says, no, I, you make the call. Right. I mean, how long am I going to do that for? Before I say, cool, sounds like we're going to raglins, right? Right? And then she's going to go, I didn't want that. Okay, cool. What did you want then? I actually wanted whatever. So would it be, based off that hypothetical scenario,

would it be actually even wiser to have not just maybe like three to four different options, maybe pre-contemplated that kind of follow her interests a little bit too? Yeah. Yeah. You know, you can, you can, she's wanting to make you feel like it was your call. So then you just say, hey, how about we go to whatever? The place that you know she likes and she goes, oh, okay, that'd be great. Cool.

We're good. Yes. No big deal. So moving on. Because I feel like, I don't even want to read that much into this. We don't want to make this into that big of a deal. Well, I feel like it kind of can be sometimes. That's the thing.

It definitely can be. And not so much the restaurant thing. I'm saying in general. So like, you know how, okay, so here's the common thing in my household where, you know, it becomes 4.30, 5 o'clock, right? So here comes Mrs. Charles saying, hey, what are you thinking for dinner? Now, usually that's her jam. Usually she kind of, hey, I'm thinking this for dinner. I'm always pretty much always going to be like, good.

You know why? Because I don't have any preference. I don't want to make that decision. I'm thinking about other stuff, to be honest. Is it a big deal? No, it's not a big deal. But I am thinking about this stuff. It makes it a lot easier for my brain as Feebo as it may be to not have to make that decision.

Right. Now, I do understand that sometimes she's in that same boat too because she was thinking about a lot of stuff. And sometimes, not all the time, actually not most of the time, but sometimes she doesn't want to make that decision as well. Okay. She'll make the dinner. Yeah. But she doesn't have to think something up that everyone's going to like. And I understand, right?

So that's a thing. It can be a thing. So sometimes people do just want you to make the decision. Cool. Make one. No big deal. Yeah. That's not crazy.

But I'm just saying, you got a balance. I hate to go this hard and spend this much time, but like if my wife says to me, know where do you want to go? And I say where I actually want to go. And she doesn't want to go there. I can just look at her face and be like, oh, well, that's a bad call. So I'm probably going to say, actually, I feel like going to name one of her three favorite restaurants and then we're good to go.

There you go. See, but that takes some pre-contemplation. You gotta know her favorite restaurant. I don't have like a bunch of different restaurants. No, on her. Either one of us doesn't have some big list. Oh, so you got the love. The funny thing about my wife is, she'll be like, she'll stray from the, from the lesson learned, which the lesson learned to me is, the lesson learned to me is I'm going to a restaurant that I already know, that I already know what I'm going to get and I'm going to get what I already know.

Like that's my, that's what I'm doing. Yeah. I'm going to the restaurant. that I know and I'm gonna get what I already know my wife will sometimes well she needs a relearn the lesson which is oh she want to try this new place so I'll go to a new place where there yeah and then as soon as she takes her first bite of the main course she's looking at me like lesson learned again right so let's face it now occasionally do you find a winner of like a new restaurant

to put in the mix sure you could find that new restaurant to put in the mix but it's not very what do you mean what do you mean I okay okay I'm not saying whatever like that's not true because it's probably true but I'm saying what do you mean it's probably true is how often do you go to a restaurant you're like oh wow put this one in the mix me I don't I don't know but that is that was true you just be going to hundreds of restaurants you'd have a list of hundreds of restaurants that you'd be going to all the time because every restaurant you go to just in the mix now yeah to me all sushi restaurants with the exception of

two are in the mix yeah but my point is it but hold on hold on there is there a hierarchy yes see so why if there Why would you not go on the top three to five at the most? Oh, there's, there's, the hierarchy isn't based on like how good it is. Oh, then it's based on other stuff. It's based on close to my house. Exactly. If I'm getting delivery, maybe some price scenarios and, you know, all this stuff.

That's how the hierarchy is based. Okay. So the hierarchy's there. So why are you playing around online? Because that's not the point. The point isn't what I do specifically necessarily, what you do specifically, because we're both in unique situations, I think. I'm saying generally like it.

What do you mean? You don't think there's other dudes out there that go out for? or with their wives sometimes, that makes us unique? Oh, that part isn't unique. Okay, what's unique? The part that you freaking, you got your one restaurant and your wife is that certain, like, way that's, I think the typical person is more to it than that. That's what I think. You know, I know that I'm not normal, right?

I know that too, sir. I know. So I know that it's not normal to just be like, oh, I want to go to the same three restaurants over and over again and get the same exact food, by the way. Yeah, I do the same thing. There's so rare that I have the, I can't even. And remember the last time I thought to myself, oh, it'd be great to go out and try something new. Okay. So there's probably some psychologist doing an assessment right now as I'm talking and figuring out like, oh, he's got fear of whatever.

And I don't think so. I think I just, when I'm going to go out and I'm going to invest like I already don't want to get in a car. I don't want to drive somewhere. I don't want to go wait. I don't want to put on shoes or whatever. Yeah, I'd rather just be barefoot, right? So why are we doing this? Well, we're doing this because whatever.

It's a good night. You know, my wife doesn't feel like whatever. We didn't, whatever. She doesn't feel like whatever. Okay. So we're going to go out somewhere. So I'm going to go somewhere that I know. Yeah.

That's cool. I'm going to get something that I already know. Pratt, good for you, for real. It's unusable for the typical person is what I'm saying. Hey, let me ask you this, because I don't eat sushi. How much variance is there in? In sushi restaurants. Yeah.

Quality. Yeah. Big variance. So, bro. How can you say that you're not like you got your top. three because the variance I don't care that much about okay how often are you like oh cool there's there's another one over here let's go let's go order from that one we've never been to before not for the purpose of that it's new so I agree with you in that scenario but so this is what

i am saying though where let's say okay have you ever heard of the concept the idea i know you have by the way of someone's say hey let's try something new hey we always go there that's my wife all day. That's a lot of people's wives and that's my point. So sometimes they want to try something new, but they don't want, but sometimes they don't want that beef of that decision. They want you to make the decision. Oh yeah. So, and so sometimes just for the, just for the sake of it, just to get some leadership capital going. Yes. Hey, let's try something new. We went to a joint the other day that was new. I know what? It was all my wife was all excited. Like we got in a car. We drove somewhere. Okay. And she was a EA. Man. E.A.E.

What is EAE again? Everybody's all excited. So she was EAE on this, right? And I'm like, okay. So we went up there and we got in there. It was like it was, uh, and it was fine. And now we're driving back after finding parking. After driving up there, finding parking, getting sat down, you know, figuring out the menu.

And you were driving now we're now we drive home. And I'm like, do you ever want to go back there? She's like, no. Yeah. So think about that, bro. But that doesn't mean that it was, it's a bad way to think. It was great adventure, right? Okay.

So basically you're hitting me. What you're hitting me with is I need to open my mind. No, no, no, no. No, no. That's true. You should use that as a flank. You can flank me right now. Tell me, Jocko, you know what?

You just need to open your mind. You need to pry your brain open and get some more different food. Okay. Well, I, at this point in my life, I'm very uncomfortable telling you what you should do. I need help. However, I'm actually with you. With the same restaurant, same exact thing. brother sushi restaurant that I call pretty much every time I get sushi unless it's the days that they're not open

literally and this is literally all call they know my phone number oh for sure call our ID doesn't even say echo it just says my number yeah oh I say I want this I want this one this and they're like yeah like they know like oh no key per cumbron this they know the thing in fact there was a new girl there she's not knew anymore shout out to jocelyn by the way um and she'd be like oh uh she took my order got it wrong the sushi chef got it right on his own. That's how insane stuff. You feel like you made it in the world because of that right there. You said that with a lot of pride, bro.

You're like, a lot of pride. That is not the point. The point is I'm with you on the whole. I go the same spot and get the exact same thing every single time. 100%. My question was, which you answered, by the way, with your, your anecdote is sometimes, sure, as a tradition, not traditional, as a silent leader, you want to go with the other person's plan. But sometimes they don't want that beef

of even coming up with a plan. So you better have a plan. No factor. And it better not be the same exact plan sometimes. But here's the thing. My wife knows that if she asked me for a plan, she knows where we're going. We're just going to, you know,

we're going to raglan. What up? But, hey, here's the other thing. We already talked about this. I have to calculate the emotions in the situation. Yes, sir. So if my wife's like, oh, you know, it's been a long week.

I really just want to do something. Nice tonight. You know what that means? That means she wants to like go to somewhere. Maybe we haven't been for big risk for me. Yes, sir. I know what I got to calculate my my emotions, which can be controlled her emotions, which I can't control, but also, but also, but also I'm going to look at it and say, oh, my wife. Mm-hmm. Is probably going to be excited if we go to a new venue that we haven't been before. So she's going to be it's going to be a positive emotion for I put that in the calculus. I also have to put in the calculus. Like I had a, hey, my week was good. I'm not that busy. Whatever. Okay, cool. I got some time tonight.

I'm not going to be mad. It's so cool. Oh, yeah, it's a good night to roll down there. And also, if the calculus is, my wife's going to be super happy and I'm going to be super angry. That's no factor because I can just be like, cool. I'm just going to force myself to have a good time and no factor. So I'm not going to, I'm not going to let it dictate. But I have to calculate the emotions on both sides.

My emotions in the calculus barely count. I'm going to say that again. My emotions in the calculus barely count. And I don't hold the grudge. I don't mope around that night. I don't go to the restaurant and say, see, I told you. No. My emotions barely count.

What counts is my wife's emotions or my employee's emotions or my boss's emotions. I have control over my emotions. Therefore, they have very little, little say in the calculus. I think I get it now. For real. Okay. Like, okay, correct me if I'm wrong. Because it's pretty, if I got this correctly, I'm talking out and make sure I got it.

It's pretty, that was pretty genius, I think, what you just kind of demonstrated. Okay, so in my scenario, hypothetical, by the way, where my, let's say, I have to think, my wife wants to go somewhere new, but she doesn't want to think about where to go. She doesn't want to make the decision. She doesn't want to figure it out. She wants me to go, even though I might not even want to go somewhere new. Or maybe I do, but I, for sure. Now, don't they just go one level?

deeper that's two conflicting plans right there isn't it because her plan is do something new right without having to make the decision that's the plan great so it's like hey let's go with that plan as opposed to my plan would be like no we'll go to the same spot or no I don't want to go that would be my plan okay right so essentially just went one level deeper where the decision to make the decision is part of the plan it's the decision yeah exactly right so you go with by making a decision on a new place I'm executing her plan yeah so it's a win-win That's what we're doing over here

Yeah, yeah You see how nice that works? That's why I come to you for these things The stuff all works out in the end That's the way it all is It's all a unified theory It's a unified, do you know what a unified theory is? It's like the theory of everything

All the stuff that I'm talking about It's a unified theory And if you pull the threat on it You'll be like, oh So you are executing her plan And her plan was to have you come up with the plan Okay, so let me just Add a new rest of it.

This is just me echo telling you jaco this. Remember how I said like the number one most valuable thing? Not the only real. The number one most valuable thing that I learned from you is essentially the long game versus the short game and how that's in play. Okay. So the updated version of that, which happened a while ago as well, which it might be just more of the same really. But basically it goes like this. A more unified expression.

Let's see. in life, in everything you do, whatever, pretty much, there's going to be a short game being played and a long game being played. Most people are the default to the short game, for sure. But there's going to be a short game, there's going to be a long game. There's also with everyday interactions, with everything you do, there's going to be a small picture, and then there's going to be a big picture. And I think that bigger picture, like that was an example of, like,

just look at it one level bigger, bigger picture, where it's like we're not going with her plan to what restaurant it is. the decision for the restaurant is part of her plan. Yeah. And just kind of FYI, saying the big picture and saying long term and saying strategy versus tactics, all those are interchangeable. Not completely interchangeable, but essentially interchangeable. They're different ways of saying the same thing.

I mean, when I would talk to one of my guys, I might not say, hey, think about this from a strategic perspective. I might say, hey, you've got to think about the big picture. And I'm not saying a bigger map, right? I'm saying over the longer term. So you're right that it's a different way of expressing the same thing. And maybe we could find some nuance. Maybe we will find some nuances on the big picture versus the long term versus the strategy.

But essentially, they're all meaning the same thing. And they're all a good place to focus. And, you know, with that, These are things that we're talking about to apply to really everything that you do in your life, from picking restaurants to picking employees, to picking plans, to figure out where you're going to go in six months and a year and two years, to figure out what you're doing with your own personal health, to figure not everything.

And in order to do that, you have to detach. That is the first step that you've got to take. Don't get emotional listen to what people have to say keep your damn ego in check It's there We the hardest thing about the ego is you don't know it It's like the air that you breathe. It's there and you don't recognize it until you go oh hold on a second If you start to inhale something that stinks then you notice it other than that you don't really notice it That's what's going on with your ego

So you got to be careful of it and then I Keep that mind opened because that's that's where you get the new ideas and that's where you figure things out and if you do that when you detach then your ability to see will increase exponentially. You can't it's like if you didn't have if you had bad vision and one day you put on classes and you could see like that is or or you know, One day you're you're walking around and you put some dirty chipped up sunglasses on that were old and crappy And you have sunglasses like that yeah I got some sunglasses like that and and you're just wearing them because it's sunny out or whatever but there's nothing really that you do you're just cruising but then all of a sudden something happens where you need to see yeah and you lift up those glasses and everything comes real clear That's like what detachment does it's it's an amazing it's a superpower and it gives you an amazing and it's amazing advantage in everything that you do. So, detach everybody.

That's what we got for you. Echo, it's a good way for us to get our minds right. What else are we, what else we need to think about here? Our bodies. Oh, check. I broke my foot. I don't know if it's broken, but it seems broke. You're wearing a funny shoe.

Yes, called a post-op shoe. But you didn't get op? No op. Just the shoe. Okay. I think it was like a turf, toe gone wild, morphed into more injuries, I've been doing a barefoot kind of scenario.

You know, when you work out like squatting just a barefoot and stuff. I hear good things. And it was working out for me. Until. Well, I was, yeah, until I was doing burpees on the cement going hard. So, you know, when you drop down, you know, burpees, you can do them different ways. But I do the kind of where, like, they're almost like sprawls, but don't sprawl on my hip or not they had spoil. It's just on my hand, hands and feet.

That's it. Nothing else touches. So it's like, there's some pressure. The pressure. Barefoot, cement. Boom. It hurts. No problem.

Was it one impact? You're like, Ouch. So it was the whole. The next day I was like, oh, yeah. So the next day I was jammed up,

but I could still do barefoot squats. And then the next, and actually it wasn't right. The next day was like maybe a day or two later. And bro, the next day after that, I couldn't walk. And my foot ballooned up.

And it wouldn't go away, bro. Anyway, I'm jammed up a little bit. But it does focus your brain on alternative stuff. You know, what's what you've been focused on? The nutrition element.

I'm not not trash. It's a big deal. It helps with healing way night and day, by the way, and sleep. But yeah, so yeah, boom. That's what's going on with me. Mm-hmm. Because I know you're wondering about that. Anyway, so there is such thing as exploring just nutrition,

but supplementation can be just as important. What's that percentage that people throw out, like on? on on nutrition versus exercise like you can't outwork a bad diet yes i believe that that's a good except for when you're 18 or 19 or 20 years old and you're going through buds you're gonna outwork a horrible diet you can't uh out eat everything uh freaking buds yeah scenario you can't out eat a bud scenario it's not happen you just need to get your grub on Yeah, that makes sense. That's what you need to do.

Yeah, so if you want to help yourself out, get some mulk, get some, which is a protein dessert, really. Yeah. If all the things being considered. In my case, it was additional joint warfare, additional super current oil. That was my protocol. Mulk, I have been going heavy on the milk.

It does, actually, it jammed me up only with cardio stuff. Oh, the foot injury. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm still going hard on the milk is the point. Did you Did you see the little video I posted of the new factory down in North Carolina? Yeah.

What was your thoughts? What on the video or about the new factor? The new factory. Well, I know that the video was, you know, freaking amazing. Yeah.

That's your assessment of your video. Yeah, yeah, I know. I don't want you to sit here and be like, well, you know, your angle on this shot of rea.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, no, no, I don't want your professional assessment of the video there freaking. So I watch...

E.C. So I think... So there's this guy named Jake Tran. He's a guy he makes these really cool little mini, like, documentaries almost on YouTube. And he talks about, like, conspiracies and money and corruption and stuff. It's really interesting. Jake Tran. And so I go into rabbit holes every once in a while with his videos.

So a lot of times he'll talk about things like foreign corruption or, like, that's where I got the... Actually, it might have been from one of his videos. I'm not sure. forget but where I got the expression a uniquely priced labor okay so you get like you know like and I get it man you want to you know buy something kind of cheaper and bring it you know and sell it for more right and a lot of times part of that discounted price is slave labor the cost of making it slave labor exactly right you know do we do they say that when you're making your

order from China or whatever do they say hey you know like here's all you the list items, oh, labor, 10 cents a day. You know, like, it doesn't say that kind of stuff. So it's kind of out of sight, out of mind. Let's face it. But yeah, so when I watch your video on a lot of videos, actually the origin HD stuff, it kind of like goes to show like, oh, okay, it creates this bigger picture in your mind about what's really going on. Like you don't, that guilt, and I'm not saying everyone feels guilty about slave labor in other countries, but when you think about it, man, it does warrant some guilt as far as feelings go. Yeah, for sure. So yeah, when you see like, yeah, how you guys, you know, Or Jen and in that video and a lot of other videos, it kind of,

it does make me think about that a lot more. Yeah. And, and you know what else is an interesting thing to think about is the environment. I was watching something. Oh, I was watching Rogan the other day. And I forget who we had on, but they were talking about seeing the rivers, like a river in China. And it's dyed blue. It's like blue from making denim.

And they just dump the chemicals right to the, right? right to the river and you can't live there because it's so awful and polluted and so yeah that's why that's why we're doing this man that's why we're doing this uh so and it was cool the thing i liked about showing that factory and that was my first time getting to that factory and the thing i i liked about shown is i think it's a good opportunity for people to go oh oh i people are starting to understand what we're doing why we're doing it knowing that it's good for the workers good for America, good for the environment, good for you as a human. So origin USA.com, get yourself some gear there and you'll be stoked. Oh yeah. So also speak of the gear, Jocko's store.

It's called Jocko store. Some new stuff on there. Discipline equals freedom. Good. We got the end. Don't forget about the shirt locker. I talk about this all the time, but it is, there's some cool, if you're on YouTube, this is a newer. Yeah. Well, you know what this is? That's G.I. Joe, right? Yes. But yeah. So they're a little bit different kind of designs, but you get one every month. Yeah.

And if you can see the layers, I think that adds to the, to the experience. Add to the hype. Oh, yeah. Yeah. What's our jocco store.com get some of that. Also, we have the jaco underground. We have to have that. We have to have the jaco underground because, look, we don't control whatever platform you're listening to this.

Unless you're listening to it on jocco underground, which you can do, then we don't control the platform. We don't know what they're going to censor. We don't know if they're going to insert it. We don't know if they're going to insert it. insert ads and force you to listen to an advertisement so that they can make money. Involuntarily. They make money off of us and you.

And that's not good. You don't need to do that. Don't let them make money off of you. Come on. So yeah, we don't, and we don't know if they're ever going to just pull us off because they don't like us because we said something bad about whoever. We said that we don't like slave labor. Well, they want to protect slave labor.

So they pull us off the platform. So jocco underground.com, $8.18 a month, and you get this. Plus, we do it like additional podcast on there talking about things that are, let's say, Jocco podcast adjacent. Adjacent. Life advice and tips. You know what? Would you consider this?

This is what I kind of thought. You know, like you'll talk about like a topic, a thought. You ever heard of the, it's like a book called Deep Thoughts? It's more of a comedy book. A joke. Yeah. It's like a thing from Saturday Night Live, right?

Yeah. And then there's a book. There's an actual book. And it's just, it's that, but it's a bunch of them. And they're pretty like, some of them are like, okay, that's funny.

But some of them are like, oh, yeah, huh. And you know, you kind of, but these, a lot of times, the beginning of the underground podcast is Jocko's deep thoughts. That's interesting. I didn't really thought of that.

I don't think it is at all. I think that's, what I think they are is like topics that I come across where I think, ah, you know, that'd be cool to talk about for, for half an hour

or I learned something that I go oh this applies to a lot of different situations It's not really Jocko podcast But it's a little underground activity So there you go That's jocco underground.com if you want to check that out We have a YouTube channel Origin USA has a

A YouTube channel as well if you want to check what's happening And Dakota Meyer He's got his thing flipsidecanvas.com If you want to get something cool to hang on your wall I've written a bunch of books you can buy, you can read them, you can ask questions. You can ask questions about anything on Extreme Ownership.com. We have a place to learn leadership and a place to learn about life, really. I'm on there one, two, three times a week live, like a Zoom call.

Well, it's not like a Zoom call. If you want to ask me a question directly and you want to have a full interaction, like, hey, explain the situation and explain what you've already tried and explain what this one Fred is doing and saying to you. You can work through all that stuff with me. Go to extremeownership.com for that. And also we have a leadership consultancy. Go to ashlamfront.com for that. And also, if you want to help service members who are active and retired, you want to help their families, you want to help Gold Star families.

Mark Lee's mom, she's got an awesome organization. and if you want to help that, you can go to America's mighty warriors.org. Also our friend Micah, he has an incredible organization taken vets out of the wilderness to kind of reawaken their soul. Heroes and Horses.com.

Don't forget, you can find us both on Twitter, on the Graham, on Facebook. Echoes at Echo Charles. I'm at Jocko Willink. You gotta watch out for that algorithm though. It's gonna try and grab you. You know another thing, if you wanna come and meet up with us,

come to the muster. We have an event. The next one's in Denver. So if you wanna come to the muster, you wanna hang out, you wanna meet, you wanna go through some leadership training. Once again, go to eslawnfront.com, check out events and come to one of those live events.

People ask me like, oh, are you speaking live? And those are those are the events kind of where I speak live the muster the battlefield FTXs I go to some of those so check any of that stuff out and of course thanks to the military troops around the world we just went through Memorial Day and on that day we remember and memorialize those that made the ultimate sacrifice And we know that all those who signed the dotted line and swore the oath made a commitment to make that sacrifice. So thanks to all of you out there who made that oath. And also thanks to our police and law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service, all first responders. You also sign the dotted line and swear to protect us.

And we are grateful for your commitment as well. And everybody else that's listening, you can't see what you're doing if you're actually watching yourself do it. If that's the only thing you're watching is what you're doing, you can't see what you're doing. You can't see where you're going. You can't see the impact that you're going to have. You can only see a few inches in front of yourself.

And you can't make good decisions when you can't see anything. And you can't make good decisions when you're wound up and you're emotional. And you can't be a good leader or a good person if you're allowing any of those things to happen. And a lot of times what's driving that is your ego. so don't let your ego get out of control take a step back relax look around and then go get after it and until next time this is echo and jaco out