Jocko Podcast - 369: YOUR LIFE IS A GAME. Will You Win? Or Will You Lose?

Episode Date: January 18, 2023

Life is a game. And then there are games within the game. How are you playing?Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Janko podcast number 369 with Echo Charles and me Jocker Willink. Good evening. There's a famous speech. I think Tim Ferriss might be the first person that I heard talk about this speech. The speech is called This is Water. It's by a guy named David Foster Wallace. And it's a graduation speech. You know, when people are graduating from college.

I'm not going to go into David Foster Wallace's whole life. He was a professor. He was a writer. He was an author of books, and he battled with depression his whole life, and he eventually killed himself, which is awful, horrible. But at some point, maybe we'll get into that. But I want to talk about his speech a little bit because it opens up an idea that I've been engaged with for a while now. So his speech starts off like this. Greetings, parents, and congratulations to Kenyans graduating class of 2005.

There are these two young fish swimming along, and they happen to meet an older fish swimming the other way, who nods at them and says, Morning, boys, how's the water? And the two young fish swim on for a bit, and then eventually one of them looks over at the other and goes, what the hell is water? And so the point of this story is that, you know, we're in water and we're so used to the water. We're so encompassing the water that we don't even know that we don't notice it. Now, what does this have to do with anything? Well, how does this apply? I mean, there's clearly there's a topic that we can get into about appreciating life.

And that's the water that you're in and you can just be not appreciative of it. But I was thinking about it from a different perspective and we've talked about before on this podcast and you probably heard me say this before the best way to beat someone in a game is if they don't even know that they're playing the game. It was the best way to beat someone. They don't even know that it's happening and you're out maneuvering them because they don't know what's happening and then you beat them. I mean, it'd be like imagine you're pre-jiu-jitsu. like you didn't know anything about jiu-jitsu and you got into a fight with someone and they were doing things so you don't even know what they're doing they're getting the mountain you don't even know what that is so it's not you're just beating them they don't even know what's happening so the best way to win a competition is for the opponent to not know that there is a competition

Sun Su's we've had we haven't had Sun Su on this podcast he's been dead for a while but you know he he talked about the goal is to win without fighting right the win without fighting we want to fight this is also the indirect approach right I don't want to get go head to head so several months ago I was talking one of my friends and someone that I spend time with and and talk to not all the time but fairly regularly and we were talking through some of his trials and tribulations and I started talking about the game and and maybe it was the way that I was referencing it or the way I said it.

And I talked about it. Look, in leadership strategy and tactics, I talk about playing the game, which is a very specific reference to playing the game in a work environment, interacting with other people. But when I was talking to this friend of mine, I was talking about the game.

You know, he was going through some stuff. And I was talking about the game. And as I'm watching, his face as I'm talking about the game that he's engaged in, I realized he didn't know he was in a game, just like the fish, not realizing they're in the water. So there's things going on in his life, there's things going on with his work, there's things going on with his marriage, and there's maneuvers being made, and I can see him because he's telling me what they are. He's telling him, but he doesn't realize that it's, that those are moves. And I looked at him, I said,

like, hey, you realize that this is a game, right? And he just gave me that blank stare and I realized no, he didn't know this was a game and over the last several months I've had a bunch of conversations not a bunch but I've had several we'll say conversations like this and I realize that a lot of people Don't get This idea of the game that they're in and I know so I want to spend some time talking about this because I think a lot of people don't realize I think a lot of people don't realize that they're in a game and that there is a game in fact there's multiple games going on and they're in them you're in them I'm in them so if you don't realize that you're in a game

you're not going to win you you things are happening and and you're not going to win you have to recognize that you're in a game and and you actually have to recognize that you're in multiple games well remember a long time ago we had a conversation about ecosystems right that there's different ecosystems in the world actually had this conversation with Andrew Huberman recently you know talking about the ecosystem he's in the ecosystem of academia yeah he's a he's a professor at Stanford he's got a lab like really impressive to some people there's some people that literally do not know where Stanford is. There are some people that don't care what kind of schooling you went to.

There's Jiu-Jitsu ecosystem. Oh, I'm a purple belt. I'm a brown belt. There's people that there's people that don't understand that to them a black belt in Jiu-Jitsu is the same as a black belt and karate, they just like, whatever, right? There's ecosystems at work. The SEAL teams is an ecosystem. Different guys in there.

They're trying to maneuver, trying to get to the top of that pyramid. of the ecosystem. And so there's all these ecosystems. And in those, there's games, right? There's games that are being played. There's work games. There's relationships. There's financial games.

You're in a financial game. There's fitness. There's a status game. There's a materialistic game. There's all these games are going in and all those are going on. And all those are like subordinate games that are going on in your life. Possibly. You might not care about them.

You know you might not be playing one of those games. That's okay. You might not be playing the jih Tzu game. You don't care about Jiu Jitsu. You might not be playing the financial game. That's okay. But you might be. You might be playing some of those subordinate games.

And then there's the supreme game that you are playing, which is life. Which is life viewed as a game. Now, there's sort of a diminishing tone. Right? To say that something's a game, right? There's a diminishing tone because guess what else is a game? Tick-Tac-Towel. Right? Tick-Tac-Tel is a game. Shoots and ladders is a game.

Yeah, right? So sometimes I've said this before. This isn't a game, right? I've said that before in certain contexts. Okay, this isn't a game. So now I'm sitting here saying everything's a game. But what we're talking, I'm not trying to devalue, I'm not trying to diminish or I'm not trying to depreciate

life and I'm not trying to devalue, depreciate or diminish some of these like relationship games. Like, oh, it's a game to you. You see what I'm saying? There's a negative connotation. But it depends on the definition that you're going to use. And I actually looked around and see if there was another better word, but there actually isn't.

There's just multiple definitions. Yes, a game can be tic-tac-tow. Yes, game can be shoots in ladders. Yes, game can be football game. And to compare, you know, people get mad, compare football to, like, combat. What are you doing? That's not combat. And it's true.

So you can't say, and I'm not trying to take everything and compare it to shoots and ladders. No. Or what's the candy game? Maybe that was shoots and ladders. Candy crush. No, Candy Land.

Candy Land. I forget. There's another game. It's Candy Land. That was like up there with shoots and ladders when I was a kid. Okay.

So you could take that definition, this sort of frivolous game that you play for fun. But there's some definition of game that means you've got a competition based on rules where you're trying to score points or earn value in order to beat an opponent. That's a game, which again, that's what combat. Combat is the most serious of games, and that's what it is. It's a game.

There's rules. We're trying to maneuver. We're trying to follow the rules while we beat the opponent. It's competition. And if you think about life, it's similar. Because in life, guess what? There's rules. And you can break some of the rules of life.

There could be consequences. You can actually choose different. You can have different rules in your life that I have in my life. We can have different rules. So you actually have some say in the set of rules that you're going to go by. Right? You get somebody with no morals. These people that rip off billions of dollars from other people.

That guy's operating by a different set of rules than a normal person. It should be punished severely for those actions. But that's what he was following the rules that he thought, or maybe he was breaking him. But there's rules. That's what's happening in life. You've got rules that you're falling. You have goals that you're trying to achieve. So you're trying to score goals or earn points.

That's happening. Most likely you're going to have to compete with others to achieve your goal. most likely whether you're a caveman and we're trying to survive and you're trying to eat we just killed a damn woolly mammoth

and now we got to fight over who gets more meat there's limited resources or where you know you're running a business I'm running a business you're making widgets I'm making widgets

we got to compete so when when I'm talking about the game of life or really these subgames these subordinate games in life don't think of the lowest definition. So if you're already mad, someone's mad at me, you're like, life isn't a game.

They deleted the podcast, right? Life is not a game. Oh, but it is. But don't think of that low kind of base definition. Think of the straightforward definition, a competition executed according to rules where the goal is to achieve some kind of victory. And by the way, the victory is also defined by rules. Right? Because for some reason they make a field goal worth this many points and a touchdown worth that many points. Those are just, they just made that up. So depending on what rules you put in your life, you, winning might look different for you and to me. And that's okay.

That's the thing. We're not disparaging the set of rules you're playing or the goals that you have or the goals that I'm playing or the rules that I'm playing or the goals that I have. I'm not disparaging those things. They just might be different. What we have to watch out for is you have to make sure that you do know the rules that you're going to play by You have to make sure you know what you're trying to achieve what does victory look like for you So that's that's what's happening now

During this conversation that I had this friend of mine he eventually got that look on his face that he understood that Okay, I get it I'm playing the game I'm in a game He understood it but he don't he just kind of like realized it And then he started asking me questions like what are the rules of the game How do you win the game? Where do you focus? Do you ever walk away?

Can you surrender? Is it a marathon? Is it a sprint? Like he started asking me detailed questions About the game and I've been thinking For a while about these things. I want to spend some time addressing these on maybe a podcast or two maybe seven podcasts maybe 12 podcasts I don't know but let's start with this how do you know you're in a game how do you know well the short answer is you are you you actually are in a game and in order to see that you have to take a step back and look at this and to get here what I recommend I recommend this often as a tool for detachment and that is to take a step back and

actually write things down Actually put pen to paper if you don't know that you're in a game right now take a step back sit down and and write down ask yourself some good questions What are my objectives? But if you're looking at your life or you're looking at your relationship or you're looking at your job You need to take a step back and say wait a second what are my objectives because if you don't know what your objectives are You definitely don't know you're in a game. I mean imagine you're walking around a piece of grass and all of a sudden people go running by you and one of them's holding a ball like you know what they're doing right maybe you should grab that dude and put him to the ground but but you don't even know what he's doing you don't know what direction he's going you there's big there's lines on the grass there's numbers around 10 20 30 40 right you don't know what they mean so write down okay what are okay I get it I'm trying to get this ball into that Area of grass that's painted red. Okay. Think of think of how your whole world

Improves if you're standing on a piece of grass you have no idea what's going on people running around they're kicking things they're throwing things and you know what's happening But as soon as you go oh I got a I'm trying to these guys with the red shirts on are are going against the guys with the white shirts on and we're trying to get this ball into that red area. Okay. Think of how much more productive you can be in that scenario. Yeah. Just knowing that. Just knowing that. So how many people are sitting there on the field of life and they don't even know what direction they're going in?

They don't know what the objective is. They don't know what their objective is. So the first step you take is you actually write down, okay, here's what I'm trying, here's where I'm trying to go. Here's what I'm trying to do. This is my objective. And then you try and figure out, okay, what are the rules here? Like, what are some of the rules you have to obey?

Because there's rules. There's societal rules. There's religious rules. There's family rules. There's rules that are in place. That you can't just, if the goal is to get money, well, you can't just steal it. You can try, but you get caught. There's going to be consequences.

You can't, you know, you have relationships with your family. You need to protect those relationships with your family, in most cases. Those are rules that you write down. Then you start figuring out, okay. Okay, what strategies can I use? What tactics can I use? Now that I know what my objective is, what should I actually be doing tactically on a day-to-day week-to-week basis

to try and progress towards this goal that I just figured out I had and then write those things down? And I think what you will see as you start to write down these objectives and these rules and these strategies and these tactics, I think what you'll start to realize is that you'll start to see, oh, there's a couple different games going on here. There's a couple different games going on here. Probably a real obvious one is work.

It's also an obvious one because a lot of times you can see what your objective is. Oh, I want to get paid. I want to get promoted. I want to move into a leadership position or I want to grow this, you know, whatever, something like that. So generally speaking, work is a little bit more identifiable. Not always because you talk to some people, you know, we go into companies national front front front.

Oh, what are your goal? You know, talk to a frontline manager. Oh, what are your goals here? Make good money this quarter? They don't have any long-term goals. There are many strategic goals. Oh, what's the goal of the company? Oh, make money this quarter.

So that means they're not thinking strategic. They're thinking tactical. But they at least will have some idea in most cases. I mean, imagine you are a bouncer. Sure. Right? Back in the day. Yeah.

Did you ever think to yourself, all right, what am I trying to do here? Yeah. I mean, there was a point where it hit me really hard and I started thinking that I was con soon after that. Yeah, because you start thinking, wait a second, what, like, if I win this game, what do I get? Yeah. What do I put into it and what do I get? That's another thing to think about is like what is not just what's the objective and what's the victory, but what do I get for that victory? Yeah.

Because a paycheck on Sunday and a wasted Friday, a wasted Saturday, you know, the hanging around scene, you shouldn't really, it's not really progressing your life. You start realizing, no, this is, what, what am I doing here? So you actually had that revelation. Yes. How long did it take you to make the decision to bail? Well, actually, it's funny because even right when you just said, Bouncer, it hit me so clearly, remembering that experience.

I was like, damn. But it did hit me. So at first, yeah, you're like just floating. You're like the game, if you even recognized, which I did it because I just needed a job. I had experience, so it's easy to get. So I got it. And then it was just good fun.

So it was literally just moment to moment day to day. It's a short term. Oh, yeah. Gratification. Daily basis. Like literally. Nightly basis. Nightly, literally nightly.

And that went on, you know, early 20s, who cares? You know, kind of a thing. As far as how it went for me anyway. And then, yeah, once I hit mid-20s, that's when it started to hit me, whoa, like, I've been here like two years, years. And what do you have to show for it? Nothing.

Same spot, but which was fine because it's still fun. I'm still young, all this stuff. But, you know, when you hit 25-ish, you're kind of like, oh, you see older people in that scene and you're like, whoa, that person's like kind of older. Cool, fine. but I didn't feel that that's where I wanted to be kind of a thing. All that stuff started to creep in my mind or whatever. And then, yeah, you start to realize like, okay, I should at least pay attention to the future,

like long, medium, whatever future. And then I, but I've been not paying attention for so long that I wasn't even looking outside of my, like, trajectory, you know? So I started making goals within that same trajectory. Maybe I'll be a manager. Maybe I'll gain some skills here. And, bro, they were all about it. The all the people you know my superiors they're all about it.

They're like oh yeah cool and then so I started to kind of pursue that a little bit and then after a while I was like with you about your career. Yeah yeah. Yeah. Like hey but because they got you there. They think oh yeah. Yep. It fully did. I'm like oh yeah. And just the kind of guy we need. Yeah. Yeah. Essentially you know, you know what that manager paycheck looks like. This is such a perfect thing. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah. This is exactly what I'm talking about. And you had a little moment. This happens to a lot of people. You know, you see, you see the person that's doing what you're doing, but they're 10 years older than you. And you think, wait a second.

And you have a moment of clarity where you go, wait a second. That, some people have a moment of clarity. Wait a second. That's going to be me. Some people say, oh, no, that'll never happen to me. Yeah. But in order for it to not happen, you've got to get, you got to make some adjustments. Yes.

So this is exactly what I'm talking about. Like, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah. From the work perspective, you're in a work job, you're doing your job, and you're looking and you start realizing, okay, what is this game that I'm playing? Because you are on the field, but there's plays happening. There's things going on. You don't even know what's, you don't know what's happening. So that's a good step to take.

Now, here's another one. Here's another game that you're in, whether you want to be in it or not, and you should know you're in. Health. Health is a game that you're in. And if you don't recognize that you're in this game, again, that's when you look at somebody that's 10 years older than you and they're not in good physical condition. They're having health problems. They look terrible. They feel terrible.

And did they 10 years prior say, you know what I really want to do? I really want to put on 48 pounds of, you know, fat. I want my heart rate to go catastrophic. I want to just look like crap and feel like crap. Just zero people say that And yet there they are Why? They didn't realize that they were in a game They didn't realize that there's rules to that game

Like here's the rules There's rules you gotta follow if you don't follow them You break those rules you're gonna look up And you won't be you won't have achieved your objective And if you don't know that there's an objective You better start paying attention to this podcast right now At this moment in time Relationships

Right And this is another one I was talking about this with my daughter because when you say oh it's a relationship it's a game total negative connotation right but what if I said hey you know I got a relationship with echo Charles he's a friend of mine it's a game here's what I'm trying to do trying to build a good relationship trying to build trust like all those things are positive and yet it's a game because you're you got maneuvers you got to make you got to follow certain rules in order to build that trust in order

to build that respect so all those things are going on and then you've got life and you've got, you know, legacy and whatnot. And I think, so we got these categories. And what are your pillars? You got your pillars. What are your pillars? There's eight of them? I thought there was five.

What are your pillars? Well, there's four. And they're both up two. They have sub-pillars. Okay. No, they have partners. Okay. Health and physical capability are two.

Okay. So, and then, so health physically, your income. And what you do with your time. So they can, they're kind of partners as well. Interesting. Interesting.

Oh, your spirituality and your worldview. That's another two. Okay. And then your relationships, friendly and romantic. Okay. These are,

you know, these are things that if you broke those down, health is a game, income is a game. Spirituality, I'm not sure how we pin that one down. I'm not sure what you mean by that. It's your place in the world.

Okay. So it's game. Understanding your place in the world. Yeah. Yeah. and where you're going in the world, to me, more importantly, like, hey, where am I going in the world? Yeah.

Well, I, I've always thought of it in this way where, you know, because a lot of times, spirituality, that's another, just, I mean, just you asking that, really, that's really indicative of how I think a lot of people kind of regard spiritual. It has different meanings for different people. So I thought about that. And I think just understanding your place in the world, you know how, like, if you look at the world, just all of existence that you understand as one big puzzle, like, where are you in that puzzle, you know, that little piece?

because you fit to the pieces next to you somehow. And so how do you fit and how does that puzzle kind of form as a whole, you know, compared to where you are in it? So it's just like that, like your place in the world. Yes. But that's sort of like saying I know what my place is on the field. Yeah. But you got to know what's happening on the field.

Like you've got to understand what's going on. What's the importance of it? Yeah, yeah, fully you're right. So when I say, when I was talking about right, take in a moment to write, these things down to me it's sort of like what happens when people say I'm going to write down my new year's resolution write down my goals like you know a lot of people they'll say oh if you got to write down your goals in order for them to come true there's that's that's a good tactic and what when you do that you're actually

writing down a goal you're sort of you're sort of clarifying the game you're clarifying the objective of the game so that's when you write down your new year's resolution you're you're saying okay I'm entering this game and for that alone can help you saying oh there's a game going on here I eat junk food every night and if I keep eating junk food I'm gonna lose this game of health yeah so writing it down and saying okay I want to lose weight I want to be more healthy here's the rules I got to follow and then all of a sudden you've defined the game and now you can start to make progress whereas if you don't do that

you know what the hell's going on in your life so what games are you in are we in Well as you mentioned like job work income what are the rules there well you're gonna have do you got to earn money right you want to get promoted possibly not everyone wants to get promoted get learn some kind of a skill right there's a there's a positive benefit to learning some kind of a skill that gives you some kind of job security and then what are the rules inside that game you got some rules like there's actual rules beyond time for work right these are actual rules but there's a uniform you got to wear Yeah. There's a treatment of others. You can't use this word or whatever. The HR will come and get you. Yes.

Right? And then you got the job itself and the tasks that you got to complete and the skills that you've got to learn and the projects that you've got to complete. And then you've got the game that's going on at work because if you build good relationships with people, the right people, you can support each other. And if you're, hey, is that make you an ass kisser? If you build a good relationship with your boss and you take care of your boss and make your boss look good? No, no, actually, you're doing a good job. And your boss will then most likely take care of you. Yeah.

Your relation and you brought that up really early where it's like, um, ass kisser, right? Like brown nose or whatever, like that just that idea when you say forming a good relationship up up the chain. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, wait a second. Like you got to, there's a difference between being a brown noser and building a good relationship. So don't think of it as, and this is like what I'm saying in my head, right, to gain a better understanding of what you're saying. So building a relationship with someone is just whether it's up the chain, down the chain, your neighbor, your wife, your kids, whatever.

It's all essentially the same. You do it in different ways. I mean, different people, different ways, but it's essentially the same approach where it's like you're, you want to build an actual relationship. 100%. You're not trying to make them. You're not trying to please them at every moment necessarily. You're trying to build a two-way street good relationship, like anything. So, yeah, no one, I don't even think brown-nosing is building a good relationship.

Yeah, well, there's some people that are, some people that are susceptible. They like to get brown-nosed, right? But what's funny is, like, let's say you're a big brown-nosed with me and I was the big boss man. I actually know you're a brown-nosed, and I go, okay, she's a brown-nosed. He's just trying to kiss my ass. Exactly right. And actually, you started to say that, and I went kind of deep one few days anyway. thinking about that because I know some brown nosers and some of them are like man that guy's so nice

he's so nice to everybody but at the same time like the you know because the purpose of building a relationship is to have a smell intent has a smell so brad you don't trust them that much you like them and then you know you'd go into stuff where um what's the expression that a good neighbor or a good barbecue i don't know in the seal teams yeah yeah like it's like that that like you like them totally like him you never do anything mean to this guy is so nice but is that or the we don't want him in the platoon you want him in the pool too yeah yeah Yeah, you know, and that's what I felt about like brown knows or whatever, no matter how nice they are. So I don't think that's an effective way to build a relationship.

Yeah. This one of the earlier, I think this was a couple years ago now, but it's worth reiterating. Is this the game you want to play? When it comes to work, is this the game you want to play? Because you spend a lot of time with your job. and if you hate it, that's not healthy. That's not healthy. You should be playing a game when it comes to work that you like to play.

Right? So if you like pouring concrete, then that's great. And you pour concrete for, I mean, think of how awesome that is. If you like software engineering and you're a software engineer, I mean, it's, hey, if you like being in the seal teams, I was in the seal teams. I love being the seal teams. What a freaking great job. I never went to work a day of my life. So do you want to actually play this game is something you should assess?

And by the way, we're going to get this on all aspects of this, right? Because you're going to be in relationship games. Do you want to be in that relationship game? You're going to be in life games that do you want to be playing that particular field? But for work, is what you're doing gratifying? Is it gratifying to you? Do you get done with a day and say, damn, that was a good day.

I really got a lot. I made progress. I made the world a little bit better today. I made my world a little bit better. I made my client's world a little bit better. I made the highway a little bit better pouring concrete. Like, what are you doing? Are you proud of it?

And then, and this is the thing that came up a couple years ago, does this game score the way you want it to score? And what came up with, I had two friends that were both working two extremely capable friends Meaning extremely smart Charismatic you know just good really good both of more men really good guys Both extremely hard workers these are 70 80 hour a week people hundred hour a week whatever's needed And they were both

Caped out from a from a financial in income perspective, meaning they were making as much money as they could make playing that game. All right. And the way I explained it to both of them, luckily I had the two conversations within a couple of weeks of each other. But it's like you could be the best soccer player in the world. And how many soccer goals could you score a game? Maybe one, maybe two.

Maybe. But if you're a basketball player, you might be scoring 30, 40, 50 points a game. Well, there's some jobs that you work an 80-hour week and you make $64,000 a year. Those jobs exist for real. There's jobs at work. You work 20 hours a week and you make $500,000 a year. So if you work 100 hours a week, you're going to make multiples more than that. So figure out if the game that you're in from a job perspective, write it down.

Is this the game I want to be in? What are the objectives? How many points can I score? Is it worth my time? Like Echo's sitting around as a bouncer at 23 years old. It's like, hey, this is fun. But as soon as you take a step back and say, wait, is this gratifying? Wait a second.

How much money can I make? And part of the way we're keeping score is money. So if I can't make a ton of money and I can't really progress, what am I doing on the field right now? Why am I playing this game? So when it comes to work, ask yourself that question. Ask yourself all these questions. Is this the game you want to play? From an employment, from a job, from an entrepreneurial perspective, is this the game

you want to play? Now we get, we're talking about health. Which is, what's interesting about health is you don't have to follow any of the rules. No one's going to enforce the rules on you. I mean, you can get addicted to heroin and you can literally do. do heroin until you die yeah that's that's you can do that yeah but there are rules that we know you can follow you know you can follow good healthy diet you can follow exercise you can do the proper amount of rest and recovery and if you don't know that you're playing a

game there you're gonna have problems relationships so at echelon front last couple years I've been talking a lot about relationships and what a relationship is and what a relationship is to me trust, listen, respect, and influence, meaning if you and I don't trust each other, there's no relationship. If you and I don't listen to each other, there's no relationship. If you and I don't respect each other, there's no relationship. If you and I have no influence over each other, there's no relationship. But if we do trust each other, if we do listen to each other, if we do respect each other, if we do influence each other, then we got a relationship. And obviously there's a whole bunch of shades of gray in there, different gradients of how strong our relationship is. But

That's what we're dealing with. So you got friends. You want to have, you want to build friendships. You want to build good relationship, friendships. You know, there's a, I think the movie is called the town where the dude comes in. He's like, hey, we're going to go somewhere. We're going to hurt some people. And we can never talk about it again.

And the dude looks back at him and says, whose car we're taking? You kind of want some friends like that, right? That's the kind of friends you want. You also want to have a friend that's like, hey, bro, is this a good move that we're about to make? Is it worth the risk? What are we doing it for? Is this your ego? Are you just emotional right?

You see what I'm saying? You want to have somebody that's going to push back against what you consider to be your good ideas. You want to make sure that your friends really want the best for you. They like it when you win. They love it when you win. They like it more when you win than when they win, right? That's always nice. It's always nice when you've got a friend that says,

oh, you're winning and they're happy. It's so bizarre that you can have friends that when you win, they don't like it. Bro, it's spooky, actually. It's not just friends, too, like, you know, if you come across a family scenario where, you know, it's revealed to you that, you know, maybe they're not as supportive, you know, Yeah, it's, uh, it's bizarre for sure, but it's like kind of spooky because you know, like someone's your friend and maybe, you know, in under a certain circumstance, like you've only been through so many things with them.

A lot for sure, but let's say there's certain circumstances you haven't been in with them. Then they get revealed to be, you know, like an easy one, an easy one. Like if something good happens to you, like big major life thing, you know. And then you could tell they're not happy. You're like damn this whole fucking time You've been feeling that way You know like bro It's bad man

Yeah I can jam you up Yeah that when I got my house And Stoner came over Like I had a couple friends come over When I first got my house And the house where I live now And it's it's in an optimal spot Let's say right

I would agree with it's an optimal position Geographically on earth And And like the first guy that came over was like, oh, I forget what the little criticism he made, but it was some devastating in his mind. You know, oh, this salt water is going to eat everything. You know, like that was like for him, bro, I'd be like, how could you even live here? The salt spray from the ocean is going to really damage your whole life. Yeah, your whole life.

I'm like, you know, I'll rotate some gear out. I think I'll be right. But that and I saw I had several people hit me with that Yeah Stoner came over like he showed up he's like bro We are set He's so stung he's calling it we right? As if we got this out right?

We kind of did actually But but what a crazy thing to think about So when we talk about these relationships As being a game well if you got a friend that doesn't want you to win You're not winning the game Yeah if you got friends that are supportive of you are doing everything they're going to help you, you got, you're winning the game. Same thing with your, you know, your relationship, whether it's a spouse, whether it's a

girlfriend, boyfriend type scenario. This is sort of your business partner in life, in, in a lot of aspects of your life. Yeah. So what kind of trust, what kind of, you know, respect do you have for each other? How much do you influence other? How much do you listen to each other? Where are you at? Because if you got a spouse that you don't respect, you're not winning the game. If they don't respect you, you're not winning. If they don't listen to you, they're not winning the game. If you don't listen to them, like those are all things.

So if you don't understand that, if you don't understand that that's part of the game that you're playing, you're going to lose the game. You're going to lose the game. We got kids, right? You start having kids. That's part of the scenario too. And so then there's influences that you have on your kids. and what influences are you having on them? And are they negative or are they positive?

And if you don't understand, if you're not paying attention to that, if you're not watching it, all of a sudden you look up and you've made some major mistakes. And you've got a kid running off the rails over here. Yeah. So when it comes to this relational aspect thing of friends, of spouses, of girlfriends, of boyfriends, of kids,

by the way, kids, same thing. You want them to listen to you? Listen to them. You want them to trust you? You have to trust them. You want them to treat you with respect. You better treat them with respect. To cast all this away by saying like, you know, the classic expression, I'm sure you've said it to a bunch of young ladies in your day.

Stop playing games with me. No, whatever. But you know the, that's like a common phrase, you know, like a really negative, like, stop playing games with me. Yeah, yeah. And if you view this idea of playing a game with relationships, just from the fact that you're like playing a game and manipulating, of course it's a negative connotation. But if you look at the game is to build bonds,

if you look at the game as to build trust, if you look at the game to build a true partner in life, then it's a positive thing. Yeah. Yeah, that's funny. You bring that up where the courting phase in a relationship, right, dating in that part. the courting part of it.

It's like there's that big game that you're talking about, but then there's a couple of maybe two levels of psychological game within the game. So, and there are rules just, and there are like ways to score and all this other stuff. Like, and it kind of is like an actual game in that way. But it is for the good.

It's for the greater good. And that's what you have to look at. Is your end goal to manipulate some of the person? Right. Then, then it's, then you're playing the wrong game. Yeah.

Hey, I can say that that ultimately you may get a short-term gratification, but ultimately you're playing the wrong game. If your goal is to manipulate someone, take advantage of them. Listen, you might win a short-term game. Oh, I got this girl to do this for me. Where are you going to be long-term? That's why you have to take a step back and write down what it is you're trying to achieve. Because you go through a bunch of hollow relationships like that, you haven't progressed in life. And you end up with a bunch of baggage.

that's not going to help you. We're playing a game, not of manipulation. That's not what we're talking. There's like a famous book that's called The Game, right? Yeah, it's like a pickup artist book. And it's called The Game. And it's like one of those things. It's like, oh, if you say this, you act this way.

It's like giving pointers to guys so they can go and manipulate girls into basically, you know, sleeping with them. Yeah, yeah. I'm pretty sure. I haven't read it, but I'm pretty sure that's like, That's what it is. So that's not what we're talking about. And look, that could be a game that you're playing when you're 23 years old, right? You could be playing that game.

But if you're playing that game right now at 23 years old, take a step back and figure out where that's going to put you in the long run. That's what you need to figure out because there's a bigger, more superior game that you should be playing. And think about that. The other game that we're dealing with is is everyone's dealing with is your mental health Which in my opinion. It's kind of rooted in everything we just talked about like physical health, right? If you have if you're if you're if you're not physically healthy It's going to be harder for you to keep your mental health on peak right on point your job gratification right if you're miserable at work, right? If you're miserable at work, What does that do you for mental health? If you're miserable all day long, that's not beneficial to your mental health.

If you are in bad relationships, that's not beneficial for your mental health. So all these things are impacting your mental health. One thing that I've noticed is that a big part from what I've seen, a big part of mental health and being a good place from a mental health perspective is taking ownership and I've found that people who take ownership of their actions have better mental health and obviously this falls into right in line with the book extreme ownership but when I look how many people have I met over the last ten years or I guess when extreme ownership came out in 2015.

It's 2022 right now. So in the past seven years, how many people have I met that have, for lack of a better phrase, turned their lives around from a mental health perspective by taking ownership of what's going on in their world? By saying, oh, because guess what? How do you get bad physical health?

You don't take ownership of your health. You blame the work, you blame the time, you blame the this, you blame you so you don't. How do you take ownership? of your or how do you have bad satisfaction at work well you blame other people and you don't get promoted because you don't think that anyone likes you because it's all their fault how do you end up in a bad relationship well you go oh i ended up here and now i can't get out it's like no people that take ownership of what's going on and by the way when you say oh yeah you know

i got a DUI and i lost my license and that made me lose my job and my life sucks now man okay the person that goes yep you know what i really screwed up here's what i did I went, you know, I got a DUI and I lost my job. Here's what I'm doing now. That's my fault. Obviously, I stopped drinking. I'm never drinking again. Here's my new job.

It's low paying, but I know that there's a path for you to, you know, promote over time. Here's the way I'm getting around. I went and got an e-bike, you know, and now I can get to this new job I have. So people that take ownership of what's going on in their world are absolutely going to have, in my opinion, better mental health. and this is something that I've seen a lot of. And I've seen it help so many people. I've seen it help so many people to say, oh, yeah, well, I had this, you know, my mom got sick, my dad got sick, my kid got sick, my job got lost, like all those problems, and going, okay, here's what I can do about it. Here's how I can fix it.

Here's how I can move forward. and you know that that one about the mom getting sick about the dad getting sick about the kid getting sick when you take that oh well now there's i'm you know woe is me and believe me look i've talked to countless people that have been in that situation my kid got sick i mean i'm talking like bad diseases cancer like serious diseases the ones that say oh yeah this is what this is what hit me This is what hit my family. Here's how I went on offense. Here's what I did.

And said, oh, I can't believe this happened to me. When people take ownership and how they respond to things, it helps their mental health so much. Just like taking action. Being on offense instead of being on defense is so much better for your mindset. And if you go through life,

not taking ownership, being a victim of what's happening to you, it's much harder on your mental health than saying, okay, got dealt with. a bad hand here's what I'm gonna do do you feel like it's like a control thing like you know and you say this where it's like the the most the big motivator if not the biggest motivator for people is controlling their own destiny so is on them like for lack of better term on a fundamental

level isn't that kind of what it comes down to like control like if something if life is happening to someone they feel they're not in control all these bad things and they're not in control. If they were, they wouldn't happen, you know. But they're just essentially like missing the idea that you are in control of a bunch of things. You're kind of not in control of a bunch of things. For sure. There's things you can't control. Yeah. And then using the things you can't control to control the situation kind of thing. And usually they're, we're just blind. And I'm trying to think of any situation where I was like unhappy or whatever. It's like you're just more blind to it. It's not that they're not there like the elements you can control you just blind to the idea that

hey you can control this whole thing and then when you kind of go from there and this is kind of what I'm kind of hopefully kind of figuring out where that's where the ownership comes in yeah where it's like hey this mistake because you start if you start blaming other people you automatically kind of relinquish control of everything yes where it's like hey this thing messed up it's not my you know like it's too bad it's that you know out of my control but now everything looking forward is not your control you either. But if you look at it like the opposite way, you're kind of like, oh, wait, I can control the outcome, you know? Take ownership of how you respond to things. For sure. So you get horrible

news and you take ownership of how you respond to it. There are absolutely things in the world that you cannot control. There's absolutely things in the world that you cannot control. Absolutely. Of course. And then it's like, okay, what can I control? Let me focus on the things I can control. And then move forward to the best of my ability and respond to whatever thing I can't control in the best possible way. And if you don't do that, then you're just on defense. And being on defense is like, you know, imagine you're a, imagine you're a mouse in a cage in a, let's say in a room. And there's a cat in there. Well, let's say there's three of you mice and there's a cat in there.

How do you feel? Like you're constantly scared. You're constantly reacting. You have no control. If you're the cat, you're kind of like good to go, right? He's walking around, you know, like looking for food, looking for dinner. And so what are you going to do? You're going to be the cat?

You're going to be the mouse. You're going to be the predator. You're going to be the prey. And if you're a mouse and you're in that room, instead of going, well, this is horrible, why couldn't I be a big, you know, 12-pound animal with claws and teeth? Instead, you're like, hey, you know what? I can't be a big animal, but you know what I can't do is dig a little hole through this part of the wall, and I can have a place to hide, and that way, this guy can't get me.

And then good, I got control now. And by the way, inside this wall, we got some insulation in there. We're going to build some nice beds, and we're going to make a little life for us. You know what I'm saying? So there's a different attitude. Yeah. When you take on, what can you control? Oh, I can burrow into this wall a little bit, and I can actually get control inside behind this thing,

and I won't let this cat in here and we're good to go. Yeah. Man, that's, that hits me a lot when I get injured where, you know, when you first get injured, you're like, never did you jiu-jitsu. It sucks this whole thing. I can't go train for a high in you. I said to how long? He's like, oh, freaking, you know, it's six, eight months or you're like, oh, my gosh.

It's the end of the world. It's six, eight months a long time. Yeah. Especially when it's not like you literally do not have the option to go train six, eight months. I've never been through that, actually. Yeah. So, but I also think, too, lifting like, bro, I can't lift. like how look if I have a torn bicep toward ACL turn whatever it's like I can never I can't do squats

anymore or bicep I can not only can I not do curls end of the world by the way I can't do shoulder right I can't do bit there's a lot that your biceps do you know so in your mind you're like I can't do any like I can't lift why even like what I'm going to do half jumping jacket like it doesn't make sense but if you for real think like hey no anything regarding my bicep in any kind of intensity or whatever, sure, we can't control that right now. It'll come back, but we can't control that right now. We're going to do literally everything else as ours as we can. Bro, you'd be surprised how much good stuff you can get.

In fact, you mentioned this. You probably don't know the impact it had on me. It made me feel real good. But remember last time I tore my by step, the second one. I was like, I forget exactly how I phrase it, but I was like, hey, can you even tell that this has been torn? Because the first one, my whole arm was like a noodle. because I kind of I didn't approach it the same way I approached this last one.

But I was like, can you even tell? You're like, oh, yeah, I just figured you're, you know, whatever. Like you made a joke first, but then you're like, no, actually, I can't really tell at all. Aside from the bandage that I were from the first week, like, you're like, oh, I can't get surgery. This is after you had surgery? After I had surgery, yeah. Did you think you? I could tell.

I thought my arm was a noodle again. But then I would see, you know, I'd see myself on video and stuff. I don't know, bro, I can't even tell. And when you can't use the bicep at all for like six months, bro, it does a lot of like, it shrinks a lot. But if you do like everything you can genuinely, everything you can, bro, it's like, probably minimal. Minimal.

See what I'm saying? And that's like a good like, what are you called metaphor, whatever for how it can be. You know, you'd just be surprised how much you can still control. Yeah, that's like the book super squats, you know, otherwise known as the Bible of lifting. But the funny thing is like, oh, how do you? do you get how do you get big arms squats how do you get a big neck squats how do you get big for arms squats like that's kind of the right the response and sure yeah but yes it is a huge thing to think about how you can respond and also we do

have there are obviously things we can't control but we can usually control a lot more than we think yeah then those control a lot more that's going on in your world You control a lot more than you think you can. Yeah. And so keeping that in mind, this is part of the game of mental health. And what's scariest about mental health, I think, of all these is that I think it's the hardest one to track for yourself, right? It's the hardest one to go, oh, I don't feel good about myself.

I don't feel like I'm in a good spot. I think it's hard for people to track that. So it's worth once again taking a step back and writing down like okay I got all these I got my physical health I got my job how how satisfying is my job how satisfying are my relationships Where am I at? How do I feel at the end of the day? What's my stress levels? So these are things to think about and when you start talking about when you start taking all these things when you start taking a job and your work and your health and your fitness and your relationships that you're in with including friends including family then you add mental health and that you take all

those things together and you get life right you get life and that's the supreme game right that's the big game the big game that we're playing and obviously there are rules in life and as I started off by saying we have a lot of say over the rules of the game that we're going to play where where they come from what set of rules are you going to follow what rules are going to bring you the most gratification how wait how do you even pick those rules and then once we figured out game the game that we are going to play how do we win and I think we'll talk about on the next the next podcast so I realize you kind of were in this mode early on and that's when it hit me it dawned upon me how there's this long-term and short-term game going on

and there's also I don't know maybe if this is more just a different take on the same thing but there's like a small picture and big picture game going on as well yeah so it's like short-term long term, big picture, small picture. And once you realize that's going on, then you can begin kind of the journey of discovery of how many of that, how many elements in life that applies to. It applies everything, by the way.

But it doesn't land on you until you really realize, okay, this is going on. And then everything you do, everything you're interested in, everything you say in a way is like that applies to it, short term, long term, game. Big picture, small picture game. Yeah.

I think it's, it's, I had a similar conversation with Dave Burke. Good deal, too. Yeah. And it's about oudaloups, right? Observe, orient, decide, and act. And you got one, you got an ootloop that you're running like on right now about a business decision that you're making with a client that you're going to, you know, talk to you later today. Yeah.

You're running, but you're running a oudaloop about that whole division in the company. And you're running an oudaloupe about the whole company. And you're running an ootloop about your whole. It's the same thing. You're running an oot loop on your life. Like what, observe, where I'm in life right now. It's a similar thing. Where am I at life?

Observe what's going on. Orient yourself where you sit in that big picture. Yeah. But you've got all these different oot loops and you're running them at the same time. Yeah. So it's the same thing. That's why having this idea,

recognizing, I was actually explaining this to my daughter. And like you could see as I was explaining it to her, you could see the light bulb come on right like yes that like oh this is a game oh that's a game oh this other thing's a game and what she said to me is she said oh she said that's why you're detached that's why you're able to detach that's why you don't get mad because this is just a game yeah and you're observing what's happening in the game and so you're not going to get emotional because like oh well when you lose a point do you run off the field and break No, you're like, okay, lost the point, make some adjustments.

Like that's the way it is. And by the way, there's very, all these little subordinate games that are being played, ultimately compared to the Supreme game, they don't really matter that much. So you can kind of shrug them off. Now listen, we all know that there's people that get wrapped up in a game, right? They get wrapped up, they're 17 years old, they got the girlfriend, they get wrapped up in that one relationship game. And when she dumps him, that guy's freaking done, wants to kill himself or does kill himself, right?

everybody that's watching that goes hey man that was just one little game that you were playing what are you doing don't don't don't give it up over one little game that's like you're playing you know heist pop warner football yeah you lose a game end of the world no it's not the end of the world it's one game what has another thing my daughter pointed i was like oh she goes oh and you learn from these games and i yes yes you do learn i do learn from the game part of the game is oh i made a mistake in the game cool i just learned and i won't make it that mistake again yeah so there's a detachment that comes from this view that's very powerful to utilize just to say oh didn't get the job oh that's okay

that's part of the game and I didn't win in this particular game at that particular moment I learned from it here's what we're gonna do relationship didn't work out oh okay what kind of learned from that yeah not not the end of the world not the last game I'm ever gonna play no there's gonna be actually a lot more games. And it's so crazy how if you put things into perspective, it's like, oh, man, things become so clear. You know what?

We're tricking, distracted. That's a thing. Because, like, you know, okay, you know when you're young, you save money, right? Like, I don't know. You want to buy a slingshot or something like this. And you're like, okay, I got to save up $12 to buy that slingshot. Boom, you're already aware of the game that you're playing. Short term, long term, you know.

Like, oh, the Jolly Rancher for sale over there? Bro, I'm not going to buy that Jolly Ranch because I'm saving that $1 for this. Disapp. But it is part of it because that's part of the game too, right? Discipline just understanding the long term is more important than the short term and being able to follow through. It's all it is in a nutshell. So you kind of know.

That's an example of like knowing the game. But you get distracted, like the Jolly Rancher is like super delicious or something, you know, something like this. That's part of the opponent kind of jamming you up. So like, you know how entertainment in general, social media, whatever. TV, Netflix, all this stuff. These are all like distractions, trying to distract you from your whatever,

your goals, you're winning your game or whatever in whatever capacity. But at the same time, it's part of someone else's game to win their game. Seems same. Yeah. And I think the biggest, and this was kind of the opening discussion

we had here, the worst thing to have happened is you're in the water and you don't know that you're in the water. You're in the game. You don't know that you're in the game. So this should be a, For some people, this will be hearing what we're talking about,

should be a perspective shift for their life, realizing that they're in a game, that there's rules, that there's objectives, that you're going to have opponents, you're going to have allies. All these things are going on. They're all going on. And if you don't recognize it, you're going to come up short. This is what entertainment is.

In football, there's a lot of, in boxing, there's feints, you know, and all this stuff. So in football, there's like, it's a bunch of different places, obviously, but there's a play where the quarterback will fake to the fullback and then he'll kind of roll out and do some stuff. So social media, Netflix, all that stuff. What that is is the fake. They make you like pay attention to that thing while they, and they use you.

They totally use you to pay attention to this one thing. Maybe your people on your team are going to pay attention to you a little bit, plus that fake, so they're going to all do what I want them to do while we go do this other thing. Meanwhile, you're losing your game. We're winning our game. We're using you as a pawn. That's what social media is. Oh, yeah, you're definitely getting played.

You're definitely getting, they're playing a game. And if you're sitting there and it's eating up your brain, they're winning the game. You probably don't even know you're in the game. You don't realize that they're taking your information and selling it and all that stuff. That's what's going on. Oh, yeah. The whole game, like, yeah, all around, all around. So pay attention to it.

We will continue this on the next podcast. In the meantime, you know what you're going to need? On the health side, you're going to need. Yep. You need to be healthy. You need some healthy fuel. Get yourself some jacofuil. Joccofuel.com drinking some energy drinks right now.

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Yeah, there's a difference. It's true. It's a difference. It's true. Yeah. Banana cream's always good, in my opinion. Pretty much everything.

I've never tasted a banana cream, anything that wasn't good. This is no exception. So tasty. Teasty. You know what's nice about the milk? Like I got done training yesterday. And I got done training. the day before and I got done training the day before.

And every day when I got done training on the way out, I just went ahead and just grabbed the bulk. You're good. Just on the road on the drive home. Yeah. Seven minute drive home. Here's 30 grams of protein. Yeah.

Right. How good is that? And by the way, as you know on the weekends. So Friday, Saturday, well, I guess Friday, I happened to get some training in this Friday, but Friday, Saturday, Sunday, I'm waking up, lifting. Hell yeah. Running coming to Jiu-Jitsu, no food. Yeah.

So, oh, damn, no food after the, okay. No, I might have some, I might have, like a handful of nuts or whatever. Yeah. Like a handful,

but I don't want to go, I don't want to go train with the big, like, gut full of food. How long between end of the running, lifting scenario, and the jiu-jitsu, how long,

in between? Hour and a half, two hours, something like this. Okay. That's why I have, like, a little, maybe a handful of nuts. Maybe I'll have,

you know, I've been having a lot lately is, uh, just moth. Cotechrella cheese with some olive oil and balsamic vinegar on oh yeah, bro. I love those My things now yeah yeah that Sarah made these yesterday and the day before and But she doesn't always make that did you put the basal on there? Yes

Yeah, that's a tomato but the oh for a man, but but even that I don't really want to have that I want to come to jiu jihitsu and I want to have like a pretty empty stomach So you know what I will on the way I'll have a go yeah and you know Wes But first of all Wes is just like already too strong and too flexible and too good at Jiu-Jitsu and he rolls in and he's pounding a go Like he's doing it in my face So like trying to get it

Trying to get in my head right He's like oh he's pounding that thing I'm like dude so then I started getting after it You know so now I have a go on the drive here And I have a I have a go on the drive here I have a mulk on the way home Yeah this is a great combo This is a great combo

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Yeah. So get it. It'll help you in all aspects of your life. Yeah. Talk about that health and capability game. It was Peter, yeah, it was Peter Tia where he was like saying,

he was making a broader point, but he was like, hey, if you want to, like, kick ass at 80, you can't be like slacking at 70 or whatever the numbers were. They might have been different. But it's basically like, hey, this is a long-term play.

You can't just jam yourself up and ignore it and whatever and then once you start getting older then try to jump on the trail it's like right doesn't you can still be jammed up now so I'm saying yeah you know and you got to pay attention because it's a little bit you lose a little bit at a time you know I was talking to bert soren sure and we were just talking about lifting and you know he's a he's a he's a beast but basically I was saying hey if there's like an exercise you know when you get injured and you can't do a particular exercise like for instance when my arm was hurt I couldn't do overhead squats for like a long period of time yeah after Dean Lister freaking crashed crushed my arm

showing a move by the way Dean Lister anyways I couldn't like lock my arms out for an overhead squat and for months I couldn't do an overhead squat and so then when I eventually could do me it was really humbling it was like PVC pipe you know you're like thinking God but what was talking to Burt like hey don't don't submit don't surrender that movement because it's really easy to just say I that's something I can no longer do yeah and it and it happens a little bit at a time right it does not it's like one day I don't know if I can really do them today and then the next time you maybe you can't really do them so just pay attention to that man you got that physical part that we're

talking this physical game that we're talking about it's a it's a it's a long-term strategic game that's that's the death of a thousand cuts And look, you know what? You're eventually going to lose. Yeah. Like 100% you're going to lose, right? Yeah. Like I'm going to...

At this point, it actually looks like I might get old and die. I usually think I wouldn't get old and die. But at this point it kind of looks like I might get old and die. So, you know, you're going to go death of a thousand cuts, but you can postpone one cut today. Yeah. Push one cut off today. It's another day you went.

You know, it's another day without that little razor cut into your tendons and whatnot. So that's what we're doing. Joccofuel.com. Check it out. Yep. Best supplements in the world, factually. Actually. Everyone knows it.

Also, origin, USA. Gies for jujitsu. Rashgards. All American made stuff. It's a big deal. Jeans, boots, t-shirts, just everything that you need, you can get.

OriginUSA.com. And we're building it all in America. We got factories here. We got an awesome workforce. So that's what we're doing. We're not enslaving people. No. Like they are doing overseas,

working a 13-year-old girl in a sweatshop for a dollar a month. That's what's going on if you buy those other brands. It's true. I'm going to go ahead and say, don't do that. I'm going to say support America. Support freedom. So there you go. OriginUSA.com.

Get some. Also, Jocco stores called Jocco stores where you can represent while we are on this path. That's a thing too. Oh, yeah. Discipline equals freedom. Good, this attitude of moving on, you know, in the face of adversity, knowing what you can control and what you can't.

Guess what the good mantra kind of stands for. Nonetheless, you want to represent, that's where you do it. Also, we have a shirt locker, which is a subscription scenario. You want a new shirt every month, different designs. Good, though. Kind of like nice when you know other people are out there, we're all kind of wearing the same. Yes.

Unique shirt. On the same team. So there you go. It's true. Subscribe to the podcast. Don't forget about Jockle Underground, $8.18 a month. That's our own platform. You might be listening to it on it right now.

We appreciate it. That's how we're going to stay alive if we ever get banned. Who knows? Some wild shit going on right now. So we've got a YouTube channel. Origin USA has a YouTube channel. We've got Psychological Warfare. We've got Flipside Canvas.

Got a bunch of books that I've written. So if you want to check those out. Also, we have Jocco publishing. We got Holly McKay's book. Eschlamfront, leadership consultancy. We solve problems through leadership. Go to eschlamfront.com if you need help in any organization. If you want to come to our live events, check those out.

We also have Extreme Ownership Academy so you can take the lessons that we learned and you can apply them to your life. That's what that's about. You're not going to get good at leadership. You're not going to understand decision making. You're not going to understand how to overcome adversity. by going to the gym one time. You need that rep, those reps.

So go to Extremeownership.com. I'm on there, answering questions, live. Extremeownership.com. Also, if you want to help service members, you want to help active and retire. We just had Mama Leon. You know her great organization, America's mighty warriors.org.

She's continuing Mark Lee's legacy. Mark is still helping his teammates through that organization. And also don't forget about heroes and horses. Micah Fink up there in the wilderness right now who knows what he's doing he's probably on a freaking horse somewhere Chasing a grisly down with a with a with a stick Getting ready to get some so if you want to find yourself. He can help you out heroes and horses. Dot org. He's helping a lot of veterans up there you can connect with us on the interwebs Echoes at echo Charles. He's back on Twitter by the way after you got

It's a long story. He made mistakes You know made mistakes. Yes dumb mistakes honestly I'm normally not critical maybe I'm a little bit oh yeah you're critical so some dumb mistakes got made price was paid paid and we're moving forward you and your 13 Twitter followers now all right there you go and I'm at Jocco Willink watch out for the algorithm right yes they're playing a game on you yeah don't be part of that game thanks to all the folks out there in uniform around the world fighting to protect freedom you allow us to be doing what we're

doing right now we humbly thank you for your service and also thanks to our police law enforcement firefighters paramedics EMTs dispatchers correctional officers border patrol secret service all the first responders out there you keep us safe here at home we thank you for your service as well and everyone else out there pay attention to the water that you're in there's games going on you're in them some of them are important some of them are just for fun and the big one life this is not a frolicing game of amusement but it's a game with rules and goals and winners and losers so make sure you know what games you are playing so you can

win and we will continue that conversation next time and until then this is echo and jocco out