Jocko Podcast - 370: THE GAME Is Going On All Around You.

Episode Date: January 25, 2023

Make sure you know you are in a game.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocco podcast number 370 with Echo Charles and me, Jocco Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. So if you are listening and you didn't listen to the last podcast, number 369, go back and listen to it. This is a continuation of that podcast. We are talking about the games we are playing. The subordinate games that make up various aspects of life and then ultimately the game of life itself. And just to say this, and we kind of talked about this on the last one, recognition of the game is a huge part of the battle.

Just recognizing that there's a game going on is a huge part of the battle. It's like when people are alcoholics and sort of the beginning of solving the problem is admitting, oh, I'm an alcoholic. That's what they say. or realizing that you've been hustled in a in pool right sure like like if you don't know that you're getting hustled yeah they're playing a game with you you you you'll you literally stop getting hustled as soon as you recognize what's happening uh three card the three card shuffle you ever seen that yeah you think you're going to win that game they're playing a game they're playing a different game than you are yeah you're trying to watch that card like you idiot

you realize someone's playing you in a relationship, right? That's a common term. We don't talk about the game, but we talk about getting played. Getting played, yeah. Once you know you're getting played, hopefully you go, oh, okay, now I understand the game that's happening. I'm losing the game. I'm going to get out of the game. If you don't know there's a game going on, you're just going to lose the game.

So that's kind of the primary piece of information from the last podcast was to make sure you know you are in a game. game. I'm going to go back to David Foster Wallace's commencement speech, which I talked a little bit about on the last podcast. Here's another excerpt. He says this. By way of example, let's say it's an average adult day and you get up in the morning, go to your challenging white collar college graduate job and you work hard for eight or 10 hours. And at the end of the day, you're tired and somewhat stressed and all you want to do is go home and have a good supper and maybe unwind for an hour and then hit the sack early because, of course, you have to get up the next day and do it all again.

But then you remember there's no food at home. You haven't had time to shop this week because of your challenging jobs. So now after work, you have to get in your car and drive to the supermarket. It's the end of the work day and the traffic is apt to be very bad. So getting to the store takes way longer than it should. And when you finally get there, the supermarket is very crowded because, of course, it's the time of day when all the other people with jobs also try and squeeze in some grocery shopping and the store is hideously lit and also infused with soul-killing muzac or corporate pop

and it's pretty much the last place you want to be but you can't just get in and out quickly you have to wander all over the huge overlit stores confusing aisles to find the stuff you want and you have to maneuver your junkie cart through all these other tired hurried people with carts etc etc cutting stuff out because of the long ceremony here and eventually you You get all your supper supplies, except now it turns out that there aren't enough checkout lanes open, even though it's the end of the day rush. So the checkout line is incredibly long, which is stupid and infuriating. But you can't take your frustration out on the lady, on the frantic lady working the register

who's overworked at a job whose daily tedium and meaninglessness surpasses the imagination of any of us here at a prestigious college. But anyway, you finally get to the checkout lines front and you pay you pay you. for your food and you get told to have a nice day in a voice that is absolutely the voice of death. Then you have to take your creepy, flimsy plastic bags of groceries in your cart with the one crazy wheel that pulls Matting Lee to the left all the way through the crowded, bumpy, literary parking lot. And then you have to drive all the way home through slow, heavy SUV intensive rush hour traffic, etc, etc. Everyone has done this, of course, but it hasn't been part of your

graduate's actual life routine day after day week after week month after month year after year But it will be and many more dreary annoying seemingly meaningless routines Besides but that is not the point the point is that petty frustrating crap like this is exactly where the work of choosing is gonna come in Because the traffic jams and crowded aisles and long checkout lines give me time to think and if I don't make a conscious decision about how to think and what to pay attention to I'm going to be pissed and miserable every time I have to shop because my natural default setting is the certainty that situations like this are really all about me about my hungriness and my fatigue and my desire to just get home and it's going to seem for all the world like everybody else is just in my way and who are all these people in my way and look at how repulsive most of them are and how stupid and cowlike and dead-eyed and non-human they seem in the checkout line or at how annoying and rude it is that

people are talking loudly on cell phones in the middle of the line and look at how deeply and personally unfair this is or of course if I'm in a more socially conscious liberal arts form of my default setting I can spend in the end of the day traffic being disgusted by all the huge stupid lane blocking SUVs and hummers and v12 pickup trucks burning their wasteful selfish 40 gallon tanks of gas and I can dwell on the fact that the patriotic or religious bumper stickers always seem to be on the biggest most disgustingly selfish vehicles driven by the ugliest. This is an example of how not to think.

Most disgustingly selfish vehicles driven by the ugliest, most inconsiderate aggressive drivers. And I can think about how our children's children will despise us for wasting all the future's fuel and probably screwing up the climate and how spoiled and stupid and selfish and disgusting we all are and how modern consumer society just sucks. And so forth and so on, you get the idea.

If I choose to think this way, in a store and on the freeway fine lots of us do except thinking this way tends to be so easy and automatic that it doesn't have a choice it is my natural default setting it's the automatic way that I experience boring frustrating crowded parts of adult life when I'm operating on all the automatic unconscious belief that I am the center of the world and that my immediate needs and feelings are What should determine the world's priorities? The thing is, of course, there are totally different ways to think about these kind of situations.

In this traffic, all these vehicles stopped and idling in my way. It's not impossible that some of these people in these SUVs have been in horrible auto accidents in the past and now find driving so terrifying that their therapist has all but ordered them to get huge heavy SUV so they can feel safe enough to drive. or that the hummer that just cut me off is maybe being driven by a father whose little child is hurt or sick in the seat next to him and he's trying to get his kid to a hospital and he's in a bigger more legitimate hurry than I am. It is actually I who am in his way or I can choose to force myself to consider the likelihood that everyone else in the supermarket checkout line is just as bored and frustrated as I am. And that some of these people probably have harder, more tedious, and more painful lives than I do. Again, please don't think that I am giving you moral advice or that I'm saying you are supposed to think this way or that anybody expects you to just automatically do it because it's hard. It takes will and effort.

And if you are like me, some days you won't be able to do it or you just flat out won't want to. But most days, if you're aware enough to give yourself a choice, you can choose to. look differently at this fat, dead-eyed over made-up lady who just screamed at her kid in the checkout line. Maybe she's not unusually like this. Maybe she's not usually like this. Maybe she's been up three straight nights holding the hand of a husband who is dying of bone cancer.

Or maybe this very lady is the low-wage clerk at the motor vehicle department who just yesterday helped your spouse resolve a horrific infuriating red tape problem through some small act of bureaucratic kindness. Of course, none of this is likely, but it's also not impossible. It just depends on what you want to consider. If you're automatically sure that you know what reality is and you are operating on your default setting, then you, like me, probably won't consider possibilities that aren't annoying and miserable.

But if you really learn how to pay attention, then you will know there are a lot of, other options. It will actually be within your power to experience a crowded, hot, slow, consumer hell type situation as not only meaningful, but sacred, on fire with the same force that made the stars, love, fellowship, the mystical oneness of all things deep down. Not that that mystical stuff is necessarily true. The only thing that's capital T true. is that you get to decide how you're going to try to see it.

So the reason that I wanted to go back to this speech is because it points out the fact that it's very easy. It's extremely easy to go through life on autopilot, right? To actually go through life, seeing things through miserable colored road. Lenses, right? You know you get the rose colored lenses. It's really easy to go through life with just seeing everything is miserable Just like it's that that's easy We actually get to choose the way we look at things sometimes we don't even realize that we have a choice We get numb down and we get dumbed down and I think that's why oftentimes

People don't realize that they're in a game They don't see it So they end up just simply following along and just existing in the game without noticing that it's being played now There's a couple things to think about as we continue this discussion about the games and playing games and the game that we're in With games in any game Oh, most games there's chances there's there's a level of luck involved Good luck bad luck right I mean it happens on a football field to get a bad bounce get a good bounce that can be win or lose

the game that in wrestling they literally toss a coin in wrestling who you're going to get top position who's going to get bottom position if you're a great top player you could and you're bad at the bottom player you can literally win or lose the game on a ton on a coin toss so there's there's a certain aspect a certain element of luck in any game and there's a certain aspect of luck in life, right? Oh, it's really nice to be born into a good family with health and money and connections and stability. That's great, right?

And there's a certain amount of skill that you can be lucky enough to have. You want to be a basketball player? It's really nice when you're six, nine, right? Or if you want to go into academics and you have a, photographic memory that's you're pretty lucky and not everyone gets that gift you're in a business world and you have a good knack for numbers those are those are nice things to have so there's luck and there's some skill that you are that you you might just have through that luck but and this is sort of lends to what we talked

about in the last podcast it's your play that has the most impact in dictating success or failure. It's the way, it's how you play the game that counts. Now, we need to think about this. Because if you were six, nine, probably would be a pretty good decision to get into basketball. There's no guarantee, but you at least, you're kind of going to be on the map a little bit.

I mean, in high school, you're going to be a dominant player. You're 6-9, you're going to be a dominant player. So you've got to kind of make a decision about what game you're going to play. And that starts to play a role in whether you're going to win or lose the game. Because if you're 6-9 and you decide to become a gymnast, you're going to have issues. Right? Sure. You're going to have issues.

if you're 5-2, 5-3 and you decide you're going to play basketball, you're probably going to have some issues. Now, it can be done, right? Mugsy Boggs, 5-3. I think he's 5-3. I think he's 5-3. You know what Mugsy-Bogs is?

Yeah. 5-3. Playing the NBA. It's crazy, too. And, like, playing in the NBA. He was sitting on a bench. Yeah. He's playing in the NBA.

You know, he didn't get that gift, but what matters is how he played. So we have to pay attention to that, that you have a choice as to what game you're going to play, what games you're going to play. You have a choice into how you're going to keep score. You have a choice in what means winning and what means losing. So when it comes to life, what games? Are we playing what rules and how do we win? We're talking about the broad the supreme game of life You could probably start with Maslow's hierarchy of needs right? So this guy is He this guy Maslow

Abraham Maslow born in Brooklyn 1908 died in 1970s of a psychologist and he made up this motivational hierarchy in psychology and and this was his biggest contribution and so the the base of the pyramid the lowest thing but the most important thing that you have to get out of the gate is your physiological needs obviously air water food shelter sleep clothing reproduction like these are the base needs that you have those are your physiological needs above that in his according to his hierarchy is safety So personal security like how can you make sure that you're safe and they include in this like employment and resources and health and property all those things are sort of wrapped up in safety the next one up is love and belonging you know I don't know like to say the L word on the podcast but love and belonging this is friendship this is intimacy this is family this is a sense of connection you got esteem is the next one which is respect and status and recognition and strength and freedom and then you get self actualization which is the desire for a human to maximize their potential so some of the characteristics of that are how you perceive reality that you can that someone that's self-actualized can perceive reality the way it is now we've talked about this before like everyone's perception

reality is different so we don't really how we judge in that one not really 100% sure these people that self have self-actualized actualized they can accept themselves for what they really are which again that's an interesting one because if you are mugsy Bouges and you're like well I just have to deal with the fact that I'm five three and I'll never know actually he didn't accept it Um Except other people for who they are they're not self-centered. They're creative they resistant to conformity They appreciate basic life experience. So That's this that's this hierarchy of needs

Right you got your physiological needs your safety I get it we got to start with that Food water shelter sure. We get that if you don't have that you're just not much else going on Safety sure we get that if you're under constant fear if you're the for the mouse trapped with the cat That's not good you got to figure out then you get to this one belonging not everyone has this deep desire to belong Like I get it's a pretty common but some people prefer to be alone. I mean there's such a thing as a hermit right? And I think different people would prioritize this differently.

I get that you could say for most people, we want to have some social belonging, but I think this varies a lot. That being said, I think it's a strong, I think in most people it is a pretty strong thing. You know, that's why we have tribes. That's why we have gangs. That's why we have freaking Democrats and Republicans.

That's why we have sports teams that people wear the, I mean, can you imagine how much, it's billions of dollars that sports teams makes from the sales of merchandise so you can wear your gang's insignia on your jersey? So that clearly indicates. You don't spend that kind of money if you don't want some kind of sense of belonging.

So this is, I'm just saying, not everyone feels this way, but it's definitely one of those things that I can understand. esteem now we get a healthy a healthy ideal like you're talking about oh I want to be esteemed I have good self-esteem and at what point does this start turning into ego right my status that's what my concern is yeah like why is that or recognition I really want to be recognized that's really that's ego man and I'm not saying it's there for sure if you can

I would recommend you break away from that ego anchor that's pulling you into status and pulling you into recognition. And then you get this idea of self-actualization. Again, to me, this is like an ideal. You've got someone that's focused on becoming who they are, right? Yeah. Am I being too much? Am I going too hard?

Yeah. Well, yes. And it kind of was the status, ego esteemed part. That's where you begun your journey into Too Hard in the Pain. So the status and ego recognition and stuff, then again, I don't know, I could be wrong. I can't read Maslow's mind. But this is what it seems like. It's like an inner need.

Now, if you need this above and beyond normal stuff, then it starts to mutate, right? Like just like how you say, like a healthy ego. There's a healthy idea of it. Yeah. Versus an inflated ego where the inflated ego is like bad. You start, you know, it's a decodatatat. as one might say. So like the like a step we'll say recognition for example, right? It's not to say that like someone's pining and yearning very, very hard for the

recognition is just that when you get recognition for something you did good, it's going to be hard to find somebody who just doesn't care and doesn't make them feel good. Right. So that isn't indicated. There is some need in there, you know, not to say they're going to break their back or throw their mom under the bus for that recognition. That's like mutated you know I was going to say not saying that they wouldn't do that because certain people have done that yes sir yes sir and I would imagine this kind of goes for everything where yeah I can kind of go too far or whatever but generally speaking we're talking about the normal level of hey I want to be I want to feel

belonging I want to feel esteemed I want to feel recognized and appreciated you know all these things that we normal people we like to feel so what I'm saying is you have to ask yourself if that's the game you're gonna play. Is that the game you're gonna play? You want recognition, okay. You want status, okay. So that's that you want this quote unquote self-actualization. What does that actually mean? That can mean a lot of different things to look. There's people that look self-actualization is becoming a Buddhist monk in Thailand, right? Yeah. Yeah. There's some people self-actualization is becoming, you know, the

jih Tzu champion. Right. There's some, even going down the line. Yeah, yeah. So that, that's a, that's a real vague term.

Yeah. I'm sure some psychologist is going to chime in from the cheap seats. It's very powerful. And if he does, he's probably going to say what I'm saying, where it's like, oh, don't think of it in terms of like,

speaking of ego. Extreme terms. Think of it in normal terms. You know, like you want food. Oh, well, just because centering his whole. life over pursuing food no no no no that's not what we're saying we're saying you know so it's an

ideal each one of these if we view them as an ideal they're somewhat more acceptable yeah but they are games and we the last podcast we talked about these some of these specific games we talked about work we talked about health and fitness we talked about relationships we talked about life you start talking about legacy a little bit the and those are sensible pursuits for most people after water shelter food and safety, in my opinion. Work, like good job occupation, health and fitness, yes, good relationships, yes. Maybe the relationships that's in belonging, right? Maybe the work goes into a steam of recognition and status. So I'm just trying to line these up and understand what I think with what some a little bit more, you know, academic version of this is. But when we

talk about these we talk about esteem we talk about job and we talk about life we talk about recognition you could put these into into various games with various reward systems with various ways of winning and a real obvious one is money a lot of people they're playing the game of trying to gather up money um and i think really money is a little bit of a substitute for freedom, right? It's supposed to be that if you have more money, you eventually get freedom. And there's the whole idea that, you know, someone is a ski bum. They don't have any money.

They work, you know, up on the mountain. They're a lifty up on the mountain. And they got to work four hours in the morning every day, but they're skiing every day. So they, even though they have money, they're kind of doing what they. And meanwhile, there's another guy that's working 80-hour weeks down in, you know, down in the city. Yeah. And he busts his ass so he can go up and ski for those six days vacation.

Right. So you're supposed to be getting freedom from money. Doesn't always work out that way. Pursuit of money can actually end up being sort of an addiction as well, where now that's where it becomes your master. And, and listen, I've known people that they love that game. They literally love making money, like deals, and they love it. And every time they make money, it's incredibly rewarding to them.

If they're lucky, they're good at that game. And I've got friends that are really good at making a lot of money. And they're good at it. And they're happy. And they, you know, you ever wonder, oh, how many millions of dollars do you need? Right. People are like, oh, more. but they are

Hey they got enough money to do whatever they want You know what they want to do? They want to get more money because that's the game that they're playing And they love that game. And some people want to play that game and they're not good at it.

They're not good at making money and they're not going to be happy. So that's terrible because you get someone that's not really good at making money and they play in that game and they don't win and they're not going to be happy.

So you got to be careful when it comes to the money-making game. Are you good at it? We talked about last time, are you in the, are you playing the game with money that's going to make you a lot of money? Because if you're working, you know, 80, 90, 100 hours a week, in the wrong game, you're not making any money. You know, you make $52,000 a year working an 80-hour week. You're hard work.

You're smart, but it's just not getting you there. You've got to be playing a different game. Now, the thing, the weird thing about, so this is one example, right? It's a common example. People are playing the game for money. There's all kinds. There's people that make all kinds of stuff into their game, like what they're into, right? And it's sort of ecosystem's right.

You could be into Jiu-Jitsu. You want that to be. That's what you're doing. To you or a basketball player or academia, right? People pursue a life in academia. They want to win that game. They want to get the most prestigious college. They want to get the most prestigious.

They want to write the prestigious paper that gets published in the prestigious, when they call that journal. Yeah. Hell yeah. There's people that, the game that they're playing is cars. Getting cool cars. Or being in the military. I always got to bring that one up.

I was in the military. I was playing that game. I was in that game. You're trying to get, you know, get the right. job work in the right place you know I want to be a seal uh people are into chess for people into whim like you name it and there's someone that's gonna make that a huge part of the game that they're playing can do this with anything actually you know in the book final spin sure that's sort of the character of ardy the cleaner who's totally into washing machines and dryers and

folding laundry and stuff like that, that's sort of a statement about people that are just into random things. And that's the main game that they're playing in their life. Here's what's kind of good about some of those games is that they're defined. Right?

So you want to be a jih Tjitsu champion? Okay. Here's what you do. Here's, you train, you compete. If you want to get to the pinnacle, You learn these moves. You cut weight. You get to this championship.

You win. That's defined. What you do, academia, right? Same thing. Like, oh, you want to be a respected academic. Go to this school. Go to this school. Go to this school.

Get this degree. Get this degree. Get this degree. Write your paper for the journal. Right? Do those things. And eventually you're at the apex or you're at least in the top percent of this academic group. Military is really defined.

Oh, you're going to go in, you're going to get this job, you're going to do this job, you're going to promote. So they tell you what the game is. They tell you how to compete and they tell you what winning is. So in some respects, those games kind of have something cool to them. They're defined. What's bad about some of those games is they're not as all-encompassing as people think. so people get wrapped around being the best jiu-jitsu player, the best basketball player,

the best in academia, the best in the military. Happens a lot with the military, right? We see that, the person's doing the military thing, and then all of a sudden their career's over. Like, hey, you're a general or an admiral in the military. Let's say you're a four-star admiral or a three-star general. Bro, you are kind of a king.

Right? You're kind of a king. You have a chauffeur, your people vehicles driving you around you get off the plane. There's people waiting for you. They set their whole schedule around you. You've got you got billions of dollars at play like with fuel for ships and planes and oh, hey, I want to take this plane over here. You can do it. You're you're sort of this incredibly empowered person and then one day you retire and all of a sudden all that stuff. is gone. Now look, you're probably going to go get a job at some military company and fuel that military industrial complex. But even then, even then, you're just another at that point, you're another admiral. You're another general. They got, they got

28 admirals. They got 47 generals. So all of a sudden, you're just a person again. Or you're in the SEAL teams, or you're in force recon, or you're in Marsok, or you're a green bray. And that's, oh, you, hey man, you walk in, You're an army dude. You're a green beret and you walk into a, you know, a conventional army battalion.

All of a sudden, people are giving you respect. Yeah. Once you get out, whatever. You're jiu-jitsu or you're a fighter, UFC fighter. You know, what happens when you're done? What are you doing? You are a champion or you were a contender. Now all of a sudden you look around, what do you have?

people are doing better now in the UFC but 10 years ago even five years ago I guess go 10 years ago if you were the champion of the world and then you couldn't fight anymore for whatever reason you got too old or you got beat up too much or you know you were just done you got injured what do you have

those guys literally don't have any money there's nothing so all of a sudden you look up from one of those games those types of games that we're talking about You look up from that game and all of a sudden you don't have anything You don't have anything you won the game You won the game yeah You know I was talking

With a very senior Flag officer I'm not gonna narrow it down Between the services but a Admiral General type with multiple stars on their collar is that would flag Yeah, because they have to own flag that flies again that's like a You show up, you're a flag officer. They fly a flag for you. One star, two star, three star, flag gets flown. Damn.

Okay. But he was telling me about another flag officer that he had spoken to. And the other flag officer was even more senior to him. And that senior flag officer retired. And the junior flag officer was like, oh, you know, how's retirement going? You know, do you miss the Navy? And he was, well, I guess I just said it was the Navy. But yeah, it was the Navy.

He goes, do you miss the, do you miss the Navy? And he's like, yeah, it's all bullshit. I was like, damn. A very senior person. Not he wasn't in the SEAL teams, but a very senior person saying that his career where he'd spent, you know, what is 25, 30, maybe even over 30 years. That's all bullshit. But when he, this is, he was in the game, knew he was in the game,

but thought that that was the supreme game and it wasn't. And when he got out, he looked around and said, damn, I was playing this game over here. I was like the most dominant freaking kickball player on the school field. Yeah. And I was the champion and people had to give me their cookies at lunch because I beat them. And then all of a sudden he looks like gets like leaves the school field and realize there's major league baseball. Yeah.

Right. Or he just wasn't. It's just a little tiny. game so we as people need to be cognizant of the fact and recognize the game that were that were focused on and make sure that that game is what we want it to be make sure that it's equivalent for the effort that we're putting into it and look there's some people they get out of the army they get out of the Navy they get out of the Marine Corps and they're they're totally stoked they're like oh yeah I

played that game it was awesome I loved it I'm retired now I'm good with it I'm glad I invested all that time and effort into that game because I loved it I feel that way yeah like I don't feel I got out of the SEAL teams I was like damn that was freaking awesome that was awesome loved every second of it if you don't pay attention you might be putting your time and effort into a game that's not as important as you think it is. So be careful of that. Can see this with social media as well.

Right? Like people think that social media matters in a big way. And it's like, oh, actually, you know, well, actually you could go off social media and okay, sure, someone might be like, oh my gosh, oh, what happened? Actually, they wouldn't say, oh my gosh. No, they'd be like, oh, I noticed you remember about social media. Oh yeah, I canceled my account. I left.

I was taking too much time. Yeah. It wouldn't be like, oh my gosh, are you? Oh, is every, you know, people like, oh, probably just aren't around. Yeah. There's probably only a handful of people that would notice, to be honest with you, for most of us. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Be like, oh, whatever.

And the same thing. The likes and the follows and the comments and the subscribers and all that stuff. It's like, oh, whatever. Yeah. Well, it doesn't really matter. Not that big of a deal. But if you think that's a big deal. and something happens with it,

that's a problem, bro. That's a problem. So, when you're investing a lot into a game, make sure that it's the right game. And if this game really matters. And then figure out if you should be actually playing this game or not. Or how long are you going to play it for?

What are you going to invest in it? You can play a different game. Maybe you can pursue what you truly want to pursue. And what we have to be careful of when you start asking these questions, you can't lie to yourself. Because this is where this is where real problems begin. So I got I was in a few years ago, it was 2020 because it was a Jocko Live event. It was in New York. And a guy asked a question, you know, he's, hey, you guys fired up.

He says, hey, you know, I got a good job. I make really good money. I have a happy family. I got a wife and two kids, two point five kids, whatever it was. You know, so you had a good life. He's explaining. He said, you know, I just can't find the motivation to get up in the morning and do more. And as I thought through this, I told him he is very, well, the reason he's asking this question is because he's lying to himself.

And he's lying to himself. He's lying to himself in one of two ways. The first way that he could be lying to himself is he's lying to himself that he wants to do more. That's a lie. Like I really want to get up and I want to do more. There's a chance that that's a lie. Because if it's really there, when you feel that lack of achievement, when you feel that you could do more, when you know you're not reaching your potential, that eats you up. You don't need to find a motivation motivation.

Motivation finds you. You can't sleep because you want to do more. So there's a chance that this guy's lying to himself about the fact that he wants to do more. And he's actually content. The other lie that he could tell could be telling is that when he says he's happy and he has a good job and he has great money and he has a happy family,

there's a chance that that doesn't really exist. There's a chance that that if all that stuff was good to go, he wouldn't really feel the need to want to do more. So he's looking at it probably, oh, hey, I'm totally good to go. No, you're not. So tell the truth about that. Be like, you know what?

I'm making good money, but I want to make more money. I'll set my kids up for life. I want to take better care of my wife. I want to be able to spend, I want to be able to get a vacation. Whatever those things are, tell the truth. And if you tell the truth about those things, you go, you know what? If I want to get another home, if I want to get a vacation home, I need to work. I need to bust my ass.

I need to break out. I need to get up early. I need to do more stuff. And listen, there's some people that are totally happy and content with the rents covered, the car payments handled, the Netflix account is paid off, right?

We're good. That's not supposed to elicit a hell yeah from you. But there's people like this. Then there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with that. If that's where you're at and you're like, Hey, look, I got a rent, got a cool place. I got, you know, I got my Netflix covered.

I got, you know, I got a cool car. We're all good. Got a nice girlfriend. We're all good. There's people that legitimately are content with that. There's also people that say, we're all good and they're not. They're lying to themselves. So don't lie to yourself.

And in this case that I was talking to this guy from New York, most likely the lie is, contentment. Most likely he's not as happy as he wants to be. Most likely he has unreached potential. That's a serious issue for a lot of people. And the older you get, the stronger that grows. Right? When you look at yourself in the mirror and you know time has passed that you wasted,

that starts to eat at you. That can start to eat at you. And so here's what I told this guy. I said, listen, discipline that you're looking for, that motivation, that discipline that you're looking for, Discipline is rooted in the truth we tell ourselves. Discipline is rooted in the truth that we tell ourselves. And this is a couple weeks later, I was doing a gig with JP, J.P.

Danel, and I told, you know, we were having a discussion about where he was at, and I told him the same thing. Discipline is rooted in the truth we tell ourselves. If you tell yourself the truth, you'll find discipline. And actually, if you tell yourself the truth, most likely discipline will find you. So do not lie to yourself. Do not lie to yourself. And believe it or not, we tend to do that.

We tend to just say, I'm actually pretty happy. I'm actually pretty happy. We tend to tell ourselves a lie. Either that and your lie could be I want more and I want to do more. That could be a lie. You could be content with where you're at. Or your lie is that I'm happy. And by the way, if you want more, go freaking get it.

And if you're happy, cool, enjoy it. If you get, if you pull that truth out of yourself and you know what, I'm freaking stoked. I got a, I got a house, I got a girlfriend, I got Netflix, I'm good. If that's where you get, cool, enjoy it. But don't lie to yourself. And here's what you got to watch out for. People lie about the hard games. People lie about the hard games.

People lie about you know I don't really care about money It's freaking hard to make money And so people lie about it Or you know I don't really I don't want to I don't want to spend my old life working I don't care how big I'm don't care how strong I am It's a lie yeah Not in all cases But in a lot of cases

I don't really care about having it I don't want some big house then you just got to take care of it Okay that could be a lie Put your lie detector on If the goal that you're you're talking about you don't care about is big and takes hard work put your lie detector on it and make sure you're not lying to yourself if you don't care if you truly don't care that's cool that's fine but if you do care don't lie to yourself now you might have to put some realistic

goals on yourself right you might have to be like okay I'm not happy with where I'm at this is what I want you know I want a freaking mansion or I want I want a I want a I want a house on beach front Malibu 20 mil by the way that might not be a realistic goal for you but if you're like well you know I yeah I don't really care about that so I'm good with my apartment over here good renting my apartment over here if that's really if you really like look at your life and you look at your game and you look at your plan and you look at your where you're going to be and you're like I like renting an apartment and this is where I'm truly happy okay but I'm asking you please don't lie to yourself

this happens with with people going through seal train They say they want to be a seal They sign up for six years of their lives They tell all their friends that they're going to be a seal They tell their girlfriend they're going to be a seal They tell their parents and their grandparents They're going to be a seal And then it gets cold

And they decide I don't really care about being a seal It's not really Not really for me It's not true It's a lie and they quit and then two days later

or two hours later they're like damn I know I actually do I do want to do that yeah but at the moment of truth you lied to yourself so that's what we end up doing a lot we end up doing a lot of lying to ourselves

about the game that we're playing about the game that we want to play about the game that we should play and we don't tell ourselves the truth about it This is also why it's very important to be able to take a step back and detach. Because your little conniving mind will outsmart you. It will outsmart you.

And it'll agree with the fact that you really don't care about, you know, having a good relationship with this girl or this guy. Or it'll say, you know what, I don't really care about getting advanced at work because I'm good with where I'm at. Your mind will tell you that. And you've got to watch out because your mind is smart. It knows how to manipulate you. Knows what to say. So pay attention to the game that you're playing. Select the right game and make sure that you don't lie to yourself.

So the lying to yourself, like, that goes super deep. Like lying to yourself about like... Did I hit a nerve over there? Yeah, you did. It actually kind of, but you know, and you make this joke sometimes where you're talking about 20 reps squat. And you're like, I don't know if it's even, I don't even know if I care about being strong. No, no, you're giving me, like you're giving me a little bit too much like niceness.

I'm really like doing a 20 rep squat. Like I don't even care about it. This is stupid. Like I get, I get a great. That weak part of my brain gets aggressive. Oh yeah. Like dude, this is, you're going to get hurt. Yeah.

I'm saying that kind of. I'll be saying you're going to get hurt, you know. You're not going to be able to roll. You're not going to be able to surf. Like you should just. Being what what what how big do you want to how strong do you need to be yeah Yeah, it's it's just take it easy yeah and the thing is that like that and that's why I was kind of laughing because I thought about that and but and I have some some pretty bad ones as well where You know you and the lie is that like you don't really care that much about being strong

And things like being strong is important always has been important you just don't want to fucking suffer yeah Hey check this out if if if if you went into the gym and someone one's like at that moment and they're like if they break and they go you know what I don't really care about being strong and then you're like hey here's a pill you can take it'll make you freaking super strong 100% of people are taking it there's no one that says I don't want that pill yeah there's people that are willing to make the sacrifice yes and because let's face it dude you do those 20 reps squats bro brother yeah that's a that's like a that's like a psyched it can be like a psychedelic experience like you know when you get to like the I

I thought you're gonna say psychotramatic experience no yeah well I don't know, I guess, depends on who you are. Depends on how much weight you're doing. Depends on how you feel. But, yes, psychedelic. But what you just said there was like they don't want to make the sacrifice, right? And that sacrifice looks like that's a bunch of different things depending on what you're doing. But really, that's the truth.

But that's a hard truth to say. Like, it seems way more comforting to be like, it's not really that worth it. Because when something's not worth it and it's like clear, it's like, yeah, yeah. It's like, yeah, I could go to the store, but it's not worth it for whatever I'm trying to get or whatever. Like that's easy. That's an easy one to accept. But if you're like, yeah, it is worth it. And but right now, I don't want to endure that suffering.

I'm too, like, mentally weak or whatever you want to, you know, whatever this situation is. Like, I'm too mentally weak to go through that suffering for this 25 seconds. That's hard. What's funny is you never say I'm too mentally weak to go through this. Because if you say that, you don't, you actually, you actually wrecked. What you'll say is like, I don't, you know, I don't think I should get injured. I don't think I should push myself. You got all these other excuses that you'll make.

And what's what we have to watch out for is we can propel ourselves down the path in life of getting on the easiest game. Exactly. Right. You can say, hey, here's the easiest path to take. That's a good enough game for me. And listen, this is what you got to watch out for. You got to watch out for unutilized potential that you have as a human being. If you have unutilized potential as a human being, that's what ends up, in my opinion, becoming regret.

Yeah. I see that. That becomes resentment towards other people as well. You ever, you know, we talked about this on the last podcast of like, oh, your friends don't want you to succeed. There's some friends that don't want you to succeed. That's because they know that they didn't do what they were supposed to do. You ever see someone like doing something that's hardcore? you're like a little bit jealous and mad and like frustrated?

I feel like I probably have yes but I can't think of anything off him but I understand what you're saying. When I'm when you see like oh uh jaco like I post oh I just got done training in jiu jitsu and you didn't are you a little bit mad right sometimes a little bit mad because it's a reflection of you you decided not to train yeah that was your choice yeah shit's getting personal you know what's real funny about that is like that you're right in you're right in probably more ways than you think because sometimes I'll be like I'll be like ah he didn't call me to go train you know how sometimes you'll like

text and be like training news time or whatever and then like then I'll see whatever someone posts a picture of themselves with you training and I'm like oh it's like it's almost like a justification you know I'm like I didn't call me but whatever you know kind of but really the real pain is like that I just didn't go through you know that you did and I didn't so imagine that over a lifetime like we're talking about one training session makes you feel a little bit but when but imagine you look up and you know that someone else who's pretty much the same level human as you like look look at some people like damn that person's doing I don't have the capability of doing what they're doing in that arena yeah like whatever that arena is freaking

Tom Brady, right? What's this dude doing? Like, there's, this is a human that was built for that game. Gordon Ryan, right? This is a human

that's built for that game. And both those guys, massive work ethic, dedication, just, that's what they're good, that's the game that they're playing. And they've committed to that game

and they're born for that game. So I'm over here. I'm not looking at Gordon Ryan, like, frustrated about him. I might be like, damn, bro. I might be like that that dude is

I actually, it's just, actually I know, I'm trying to think of what my emotions are when I look at Tom Brady or I look at Michael Jordan or I look at Gordon Ryan. It's like, oh, that's a human that got the blessing of having a level of natural ability

that then took it to the end's degree. Good for them, bro. Yeah. Respect. I don't even feel frustrated about that. Here's where people get frustrated. They look at Joe Schmoe and they go, dude, Joe Schmo did this and I'm sitting over here and that person did better than me. I know I have more talent than them. That's where people get pissed. That's where people get resentful. Yeah, that's what it feels like where they, yeah, you mentioned these like elite level, you know,

Gordon Ryan and Michael Jordan and Tom Brady. It's almost like they're so good and so like they They connected all their dots in their whole life potential gifts and work ethic. Like, you don't even compare yourself with them because of all these elements that are different. So, like, you know, when someone's, like, in the same lane as you, that's when you're going to be paying attention, you know? Where certain people, even if someone's, like, just playing a whole different game, like, someone who's, like, won the Nobel Prize. There are other people in their, in their little environment. And their ecosystem. Yeah, their ecosystem.

They're like, eh, I should have won the Nobel Prize. or they'll be haterish or whatever, but you, if you're not pursuing the Nobel Prize, you're kind of like, oh, that's pretty impressive. You know,

you don't care at all. You're just not in that lane, you know? What's the deal with Tom Brady as far as, like, you know, you see these, the numbers that he did in the combine

when he was getting drafted and he was like, not, you know, horrible numbers. I think of, like the worst 40, and they show pictures of him. He had no vertical.

So was he just not like the best athlete? And then he got, he worked, to get that athletic or is he just not been on the right program wait is Tom Brady super athletic now or something I mean he's freaking won however any super bowls yeah so awesome shape at 45 years old yeah yeah fully so yeah there's an you know this like where there's different like types of athlete but more than that it's more what kind of player are you like how good of a player are so certain positions if you're more athletic that's going to add to how good of a player you're

got to have other elements for sure oh yeah 100 percent now quarterback is kind of the most cerebral one of the thing. So he's he got to be he has to be a good football player like quarterback so there's something in his mind and you can train all this stuff like in and of course physically like he's a tall guy you know that helps and you got physical attributes for sure but just because you don't have a vertical like that's more like basketball your verticals gonna matter more than being a quarterback. Do you think he do you think he was not on the right program and then once he started getting honed he was able to become more because let's face it, like he could have been a really good athlete that just didn't know how to train right.

Yeah. Is that possible? Yeah, yeah, very possible. I need to do some research. Yeah, but you tend to get like these really good. And I told you about my friend Tim Carey where he, he was a quarterback at UH. I actually talked to him briefly. He was, I think he played in Canada for a little bit too.

But, and I'm not saying he's not a Tom Brady level athlete, but he was so good. But he was one of those guys where you tell him run a 40, he's not very fast. He was pretty tall. But you tell him jump a vertical, he's not going to be one of the highest vertical guys. But his mind and his just way of connecting with the people around him on the team or whatever was like, you could tell he was really good at that. And I'm sure you can train that. A lot of his personality. But it's like the way you're in touch with the game and with your game, that's going to really tell the tail more so than how fast you run the 40 or do those combine exercises.

Fedor. Yeah. So one thing about Fedor, when people talk about the different talents that people have, right? And you got, you know, some fighter is super explosive, right? Yeah. You got Yowel Romero, right? Just explosive. He's like a superhero explosive.

You got some other guy that could, you know, Nate Diaz, just going to endurance, bro. He's going to keep going to nothing going to stop him. From an endurance perspective, BJ Penn, flexible, super flexible. You got guys that just cardio machines Frankie Edgar, right? So there's different people have different talents. What I always found about Fador Malianenko, who a lot of people say is the best heavyweight of all time in mixed martial arts,

what I thought like his talent was that he knew how to fight really good. You know, like he knew how to take his wrestling, his boxing, his striking, his grappling. He knew how to take all those things. His talent was being able to put them all into one package and utilize the right skill at the right time Yeah. Better than anyone else in his era.

Yeah. And you know, here's another one too, and you mentioned this every once in a while where he was unshakable. Like he wasn't the kind where like, you get him in trouble and it, that means something to that. You get him in trouble means nothing to me.

He means nothing to him. Yeah. Go look at Kevin Randleman just picking him up, smashing him on his spine. Yeah. Like where you look at air, airborne. Airborne.

And you think there, you think at least there's a decent chance this guy's, is going to be paralyzed. Yeah. Literally paralyzed from the neck down because he gets smashed on his head and he hits the ground and he looks like It looks like I just walked up to you and like said hi. That's the expression he just looks totally normal and he gets a guy in a Kimura Yeah, but that you see that and you go okay. That's what that guy's talent was Was taking all those things like he if there was no MMA and there was just boxing he wouldn't have been a world champion boxer if there was just wrestling he wouldn't have been a world champion wrestler

because there was people that would beat him in wrestling, there's people that beat him in boxing, there's people that beat him in sombo, but you take all those things and put them together, and that's the skill he had. So when we're cruising around life, if you can and you can identify what talent you have, that can help you identify what game you should get into.

And if you're lucky, the game that you're good at is the game that you all. like to play right because there's some people that have a natural skill but they don't like that that game right there's also some people that lack a skill but they love that game look I'm I'm okay with that to an extent right like hey I really love this game I suck at it but I'm gonna go for it I appreciate the heart man and you you that might be the right move for you because then you're doing something that you love and you get beat it doesn't really matter as long as

you accept that and you understand that and you understand what winning is going to look like for you in that particular game. But if you're not paying attention to that, you might be getting involved. You might be, it's the same thing you hear with, you know, oh, I just always did what my parents wanted me to do. And that's why I went to law school and now I'm a lawyer and I hate it. Yeah. Right. Like, watch out for that. If you don't like, if that's not the game you want to play at all and your parents are getting your law school and you want to be a welder because you, like fabricating stuff with your hands let me tell you what game you should pick you

should pick that fabrication you should become a welder because your passion and your love for welding will more than make up for the fact that it might start off with a lower income than being a lawyer which by the way probably isn't even true these days because being a lawyer there's so many lawyers out there takes a long time to build up your life you book business and it depends on what kind of lawyer you are Like I know a handful of lawyers and most of them are don't make that much money. That's very true. Very true.

And most welders, they make pretty good money. Yeah. I know, man. So that's what game you want to get in. Yeah. And you and you just, you just have to pay attention yourself. And what I would say about both those, your parents want you to be a lawyer. They've told you to be a lawyer.

If you lie to yourself, it ain't going to work out well. Bro, you made a really good point with the admirals and stuff where, and then UFC has that, where, you know, you put all your eggs in that basket playing that game, hardcore, and then once it's over, you're sort of done. So, I know, like, you know, professional sports, that can be the case. And, you know, you ever watch what's the show The Rock used to be in? And he was like a sports financial advisor. No idea. It was a show. I used to watch it for a while.

And I was like, I don't get what this guy is that when I first started watching. it and I was like oh what he does is he manages like the money and the financial future of athletes that come in because you know you come out of high school yeah yeah you squeaked out a degree a little bit you went to the draft or whatever and your whole your whole plan for your whole life all your eggs and that bastard football and then nothing else afterwards right in you're playing football that's all you're doing football party whatever whatever so the rock was like a advisor that he would help plan like hey you should you should take some of your money invested it here so when you're done playing football because when you play football you don't think about

after football you're saying forget football forever well unfortunately most people between the most men for sure between the ages of 1530 aren't thinking about anything you know you all think you're gonna not you're not worried about hey something will happen yeah which is by the way like yourself yes so true so he was he would do that and that like kind of man you can obviously we don't have A lot of us don't have financial advisors when we get our first great job, you know. But it's like that's the kind of mindset you kind of got to keep that's going to help you, you know, like what minds that, hey, this is going to end. This job is going to end.

And then what am I going to do? So some jobs are good where you can have that job and you get so much experience just by doing the job that like when you're done, you're like, oh, shit. To me, Admiral seems like one of those jobs. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. No, there's definitely, like I said, the military industrial complex is looking to hire you up and make you a freaking whatever. their thing and their board meeting and you're going to go to the big meeting and get more missiles bought by the Navy or whatever That's going on for sure but you see fight not guaranteed by the way

What I just said There's always a slot there's always some slots for that flag officer But also that flag officer's like well they're like yeah yeah we got a job for you just got to move to whatever this place is and the guys like well I want to retire to Tennessee I'm like well We don't need someone in Tennessee. We need someone in Washington DC Tennessee or DC? I We need you in D.C., not Tennessee. And so then they're like, oh, I guess I'll just not do that.

And look, you got an admiral's pay, Admiral's retirement or a General's retirement, which is good money. But it's not getting you anything close to the life that you had when you were an active duty general officer. Because you had a driver and you had a car and you had a freaking airplane. You weren't flying around in Delta. You're not flying around in America. You had a plane. And you're, hey, I'm going there now. I'm going there now.

There's a group of people waiting for you. And they're feeding you extravagant foods and treating you with respect. All of a sudden, next thing you know, you're on Delta Airlines in the cheap seats. You know? So that's where it sneaks up on people. Yeah. And there's people that do that in every industry. That happens in the academics.

It happens in the financial industry. It happens in any industry. Yeah. Any job that you can have. If you don't recognize. the ecosystem that that job actually encompasses and think that it encompasses more if you think that the ecosystem encompasses the whole world like there's like being a seal right no one like there's an admiral seal there's me there's some other guy that was did four years

to necessarily world that's just a seal they're all the same dude right well this guy was an admiral sure some people might say well admiral sounds pretty important well this guy over here says yeah I was a master chief. He goes, oh, master chief, admiral, those guys both sound pretty awesome to me, right? It's like the same thing. So you think that that ecosystem expands to encompass the whole universe

and you think it expands to encompass life, it doesn't. So if you're not paying attention, you will be invested in a game where when you walk off the court, no one cares what the score was. People do that with academia, like you're going to college

and they're trying to get good grades and all this stuff, no one cares, No one wants to see your report card. Actually, a lot of times they don't even care what university you went to. Sure, if you went to the big, whatever, big Ivy League, there's people that care about that. But then there's also people like,

I don't care where you went to school, whatever. You went to Harvard, you went to Princeton, you went to Berkeley, you went to Yale, you went to wherever. It's like, okay, cool, whatever. We don't care. Can you perform in this job? And that's the question. So if we're not thinking about that,

we end up with issues. That's why, you know, I've told vets for all these years, you need to find a new mission. Find a new mission because that once you're out of the military no one calls you Master Chief anymore no one calls you commander anymore doesn't happen sure you can go to the country club and someone calls you Admiral if you tell them all about it but they're just kind of like whatever it's no big deal so we have to be careful with this you know the the UFC thing for sure is the you know guys that fought in the UFC and then

that's over you know even jiu jiu jitsu guys like oh that's over like you just said football guys like you're on you're on an NFL football team nowadays cool you're gonna get a good retirement you're gonna take care of but back in the day back in the 70s like you got done no one knows no one you don't have any money yeah no one cares got to go get a job yeah you got to go get an actual job that's weird that's a strange thing yeah actually yeah my uncle he died but he uh he played in the NFL for like six years or whatever what team um kind of he played for cleveland And he's old school. He's like eight he would have been like 80. Oh, damn. He was old school. He was

He was hardcore leather helmet. Well, too, no, not quite, but nonetheless, when I first, I heard about him whenever, but when I first met him when he came to visit or whatever, he was like, yeah, he was like just a normal dude. I thought, you know, he's huge, but he was like, I thought he was going to be some big time rich dude. Because he got that NFL money, you know, but no, like when you're done, you sort of got, I mean, unless, you're, he's going to be some big time rich dude. Um, he's got, um, I mean, Unless you're focused right when you get that you focus on retirement and invests and all that stuff, most people don't do that So he just came as just a normal dude I think he'd worked in like I don't know some actually I think he owned like a shop or so I don't know

Yeah, but what's interesting is if you were in the NFL back then or you in the UFC Five years ago ten years ago and you recognized the limitations of the game you were investing in And you pulled chips off the table in that game and it into the bigger game yeah that's how you win that's how you look up and go yeah you know I didn't you know I didn't do great in the UFC I fought for the belt twice didn't win it but I you know bought these three apartment buildings yeah you know over a five-year period yeah two of them were paid for you know what I mean and then all a sudden you go oh so the only way you get to see that is by following the advice we

gave on the last podcast take a step back and write down the game that you're in and the multiple games that you're in and then what are the strategies to win these games. And by the way, you can be playing a game, a short-term game, a subordinate game that is going to cost you

in the strategic victory of the Supreme game. So you're doing dumb things. Hey, oh, I'm going to deal some drugs right now. Right? I want to deal some drugs

and I want to make some money right now, blah, blah, then you get caught. And now you're screwed. So you can do, you can make mistakes in the short-term games.

You can get involved in games that don't matter you get involved in games that take away your resources and if you do that you're gonna you're gonna sacrifice the supreme game again please go and write down take a step back detach and write down the various games and subordinate games that you're involved in what look we're all playing at least one big game together yeah all of us yeah and you know for you winning the game of life might be hey i've got a big family I've got a bunch of kids I got a bunch of grand kids that's a W you might be hey I'm not

really into a big family but I got a bunch of properties and I got a I know I can spend my final years doing whatever I want and that's your W if that's your W fine maybe it's hey look I don't really care about money but I want to live by the beach or I want to live in the mountains and I want to be left alone and not have to worry about anything and that's the W okay cool figure out what that win looks like. Figure out what that W is and then figure out how you're going to play that game to win.

Do you, you know, you heard the whole thing where, you know, people do this where they'll interview people who are like really old. And sometimes they interview like the super successful people who are really old

and kind of retired or whatever. And they say like, what are your regrets or whatever? And it's usually stuff that they didn't do. Or maybe I should have, okay. And so I have two questions.

A, do you ever like do that? Is that ever like a motive, not a motivator, but like a tool you use to be like, hey, I should do more or whatever by thinking like, oh, I don't want to be old and regret not doing certain things? Yeah. I think when I talked earlier about the knowing that you have a certain level of potential. Yeah. Knowing that you have a certain amount of time, knowing that I have opportunities that some of my friends don't have anymore. Yeah. It's like, oh, if you don't think I'm.

I'm gonna try and do my best to fulfill the potential that I have to squeeze what I can out of life. Well yeah, no, of course I think that way. You know, I think about all my friends that don't have that opportunity. Yeah. So do you think of now, do you ever think of like things in the past like that you kind of can't do anymore

because you're not in that position anymore? You know, like sometimes when you're like, hey, I should I enjoyed myself more in my 20s or whatever. Do you ever think that? I enjoyed myself a lot. So you don't have any like, I go in the other direction.

I'm like, I enjoy myself a little bit too much in my thorns. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I was playing that game pretty hard. Yeah. Right? And I played it a little too hard.

You know, I probably should have been a little bit smarter. But I think also, you know, I think that the years that I was like, you know, blowing money on partying and chicks and just all that crap, I think in those years,

I also, those were years that were, a little bit for lack of a better word a little bit expendable meaning like that's what I was doing I knew I had a longer future you know and knew I'd be able to kind of have some time to put that together but that being said I've told my kids I've been like oh if I would have been smarter the whole the whole world would be different you know so I guess I do have when I if I think about it kind of bifurcate the two thoughts one of them is like well Yeah, I had a good time and it was fun.

But also, if I look at it from a more mature aspect, it's like, yeah, you know, I would have been in a much better position now than I am. Now, listen, I will say that I'm in a really good position right now in my life. Like, I mean, I've got good stuff going on. I kind of have what I want. But, you know, if I wouldn't have gotten a lot. onto this path that we're on right now. You know, if I, if I would have retired from the military and run the gym and taught

Jiu-Jitsu and I had to look around right now and look at the time and money that I wasted as a 20 to, as an 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24 year old, I'd be like, damn, I should, I wasted. I blew a lot of stuff. Luckily, like I said, I think of made maneuvers. once I identified the game that I was playing, which I didn't really do until I was like 25 years old, it's like, okay, I see this game.

Okay, now I'm in a game. Here's the moves that I have to make. Here's the things that I have to do to set myself up for the long run. And once I did that, then I was able to sort it out. But if I, and then continued to identify, oh, this is the game that's going on right now. Okay, here's how I can make. moves. So I think if I wouldn't have identified that, I would be totally regretful.

Yeah. But as of right now, you're kind of sorry. No, I feel good. And then the other question that I got to ask yourself, well, if I didn't have those other experiences, would I be who I am right now? And the answer is probably no. Probably not. Yeah. You know, so I, I was doing things and learning about life and going through experiences that I learned a lot from. And I think that was beneficial. Yeah. And it makes me who I am. So. Yeah, I feel like you're, you know, in your position and a lot of people in the position where you had such a like action, for lack of better term, like young life, you know, that it's hard to be like, man, I wish it. Because, you know, you bring up people who follow their parents' dreams, you know, and then they get, and even one, they're for real successful.

They'll be like, dang, I wish I would have paid attention more to my friends or my whatever, my family, whatever. Or even if they just say, I wish I would have followed my dreams instead of my parents' dreams. Yeah, yeah. So this is to your case and point, I followed my dreams. From day one. I was like, hey, I want to go be a frog man. I'm going to go get after it. Like, that's what I'm doing and I did it.

And so that's, to me, very, very satisfying, gratifying and regret removal, right? Yeah, fully. Like, I think if I had not done what I had wanted to do, Like, well, you know, you played football. Is there a part of you that goes, man, if I would have pushed a little bit harder, if I would have trained a little bit harder, if I would have been a little bit more dedicated, I probably could have, you know, maybe I could have gone, whatever. Maybe I could have gone to the NFL, maybe I could have done, or you didn't have those thoughts.

No. You're shaking your head like that. Yeah, not even close. So I think like, do you didn't have the capability of going to the NFL? I don't know. I mean, put it this way. The guys that on my team that I know that went to the NFL were like way more gifted than me. So way more gifted or way all across the board.

Or did they work harder though? Yeah. Yeah, both. And here's what I realized like within two years. It was actually after I got injured. I had to work my way back into the depth chart. It was like I don't like football enough to like have to play this game as hard as everyone. I'm looking around and guys are like they're down for the grind of football and that's football.

And they're watching the games on the weekends. I don't care. I kind of to be honest, I kind of care more about the party. after the game, then, you know, like practice and like all this stuff. I liked lifting weights. I like that part of it. And certain like running drills, I like that part of it. But I think the reality of what it takes to play football, like, wasn't worth it at all.

To me, after, like, about two years in college. In high school, it's like you're just into working out and you run faster than everybody. So you can catch good. So you make touchdowns. If you're good at football in high school, like, you're just. gonna live a good life you know kind of a thing and then so it wasn't it didn't take the kind of work it did in college so it really brings to light like what it takes and you're like oh brother this isn't like i don't even like football that much i like it but not that much what if you were still a bouncer

right now no so yeah would you kind of be like damn i was that no i would have if this is the if if i was i'm just trying to see if you lied to yours did you lie to yourself at all when you were like you know what i don't care about that much about football were you just saying that because it was a bunch of hard work and you're like oh I don't really care about football it's like what I talked about earlier today yeah um no because it doesn't feel like in any way because I don't even now I don't watch football and not because like I saw our grades are not being but like I'll try to watch football because I want my son to kind of be into and think and it is fun to watch but I'm like not into it really I'm not into it so there's truly zero regret for your football

career. You know what I think? I think what drew me to football was my dad's like he was so proud that because Jay joined football first when you're like when he was 10 when we were 10 and my dad was so proud of him and I'd watch him playing and how everyone just loved it and all this stuff so I was like and then the next year I went and we were good you know coming up or whatever so it's like you just get the payoff of being good more so I really liked football I think I did it for my dad to be honest like not fully but so you truly have no regret the football thing no Um, that's good. Yeah.

That's good because there's some people that, you know, would have been, uh, invested. And, and from what you're saying, you weren't actually that, that had, you know, uh, let's say a 80% natural talent. If 100 gets you to the NFL, you had 80%. Yeah. And you could have made it up to 87 because you would have, if you would have worked really super hard, but you still wouldn't have been. Yeah. So consider who went to the NFL from my team that. I mean, I'm, there's some other guys kind of later on, but Ashley Leli.

6-3, run a 4-2 something, 40. He went to the NFL. My friend Jeff Oberg, who I met, he ran a 4-5. He weighs 255, he's 6-1. And good at football. That's the thing too. And actually has all these touchdowns and like just good at football. My friend Adrian Klam, who went, he was a lineman, he was 6-5, 300 pounds.

And good at football, long arms. He was all right. Really, these are elite athletes in Division 1 college football. So you don't just go to the NFL. You see what I'm saying? You had that realization. Was there anybody that surprised you? Anybody that like, you know, little Freddie?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. There are a handful of those guys. They usually make it to like the combine stuff and the practice squad and they do some work there, but they don't go and play in the NFL, you know. No surprises. Yeah, there was, I totally forget his name. Oh, man, I forget his name. Local guys.

I went to the NFL, played on some squads, didn't play in games or nothing, but played on some school. There's a few guys. If you just playing the squad, are you getting paid? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you get paid. Practice better than like a normal job for sure. Yeah, better than your average job. Oh, yeah.

Like you can get. And that could that have been of you? Could that have been you? Yeah. Like if I would, if I was gung-ho about football, like these, yeah, yeah, I think so. Because I, I ran. But you assess that the game was not for you. The game was not for me.

the game I chose one I didn't have a I didn't have a contingency I just like I didn't have really like goals I was just trying to do whatever I'll be a personal trainer or something like this and then you know work in the clubs you know when you're 20 it's like whatever 21 22 years old no it was it was well into the club where I was like hey I got to do something like creative you know with with people that I like that has a real future not just the manager of a nightclub you know like that's not a I didn't see that as who I was kind of a thing so I yeah I joined with my brother and started your stuff I'm glad you were able to assess actually you

taught me something passively what's that you know how you're like a Navy seal or were whatever whatever but then you're also a black belt in jiu jitsu and this is what I found out about you were like early on to where you like dabbled in like real estate. And then I didn't find out you were this leadership dude or had that until Tim Ferriss podcast. I literally didn't even know that. Dang.

So the point there is you have like five. That's like what, four or five different viable games to play. Five. Yeah. Like very viable. Just alone. But you have five of them going on at the same time. Yes.

And that is something that is a strategy. And of and it the weird thing is and I'd say that this is probably you know we talked about fadour talent being able to put it all together I would say the little bit of talent that I have because you know me I'm not that talented in anything really But what I was pretty talented at was being able to like work hard in a bunch of different things Kind of simultaneously yeah kind of like I'm gonna do these things and they're all our time suckers and they all take a lot of effort and time, but I'm going to go ahead and do them all at the same time. And I think that's, it's hard to do that. And in some, in a lot of cases, it's not even smart to do that. Because in a lot of cases, you know, if you're doing one thing and then you're doing something else and you're doing

something else and you're doing something else, you're not prioritizing and executing. You're not focusing your resources properly to actually make anything happen. So that, In many cases is negative to try and do a bunch of things at the same time. You know, I would say like how much more dedicated. I was very dedicated to Jiu-Jitsu and I still train all the time. But and there was a time maybe where I was pretty good. But like, when I'm training with Dean Lister and I'm training with Dean and he's like a world champion, I recognize kind of like what you're.

you're saying there was a gap in natural ability that would not be would not be closed by any amount of work yeah you know there's a there's a certain level that he is and then I'd train with other world champions I'm like okay yep that person's better than me now look I could have got to close that gap more you know if I'd have been like all right you know what I'm just getting out of the navy and I'm gonna just do jiu jitsu all the time sure I could close that gap more for sure 100% obviously Um, but yeah, I think that's, that's me working hard. And not only that, uh, when it does come to prioritize and execute, when I'm, when I was doing one thing, like I would do that thing. Yeah. And then two hours later, I'm doing something else. I'm focused on that thing. And then two hours later, I'm doing the other thing.

I'm doing it. So I think the amount of focus that I would bring to the table when it came to pursuing goals was strong. Yeah. And I never like I never sacrificed to one second of work in the SEAL teams for anything else for nothing else like there was no way that I was going to ever be like oh I got to go be no I never left work never never never never was like no I got to go that's why you know for many many years dean and I trained it eight o'clock at night because that's when I could safely know You know, you get to work at 6 o'clock in the morning. I know by 8 o'clock I can get to the mats.

Right, right. Because I was never going to prioritize anything above the primary job, which is being in a leadership role in the SEAL teams, which is going to trump all other things. So you, some of it, though, and maybe you're like, yeah, some of your stuff where, you know, especially now, it's clear, that maybe maybe early on it wasn't, but you know, like a lot of your stuff,

all the things that you're good at, like certifiably good at, you've produced results in, they, like, kind of can play off each other. True. You know, so, like, it's not like you're like, hey, I'm going to pursue being a rock star and then run echelon front.

It's like they're two, they're so different. I mean, unless you're playing songs for them on the weekends or whatever, but you, they don't like, which I have done. Yes, sir. They don't play off each other as much, you know?

Right, right. The Venn diagram overlap of Jiu-Jitsu, of SEAL teams, of leadership. And, you know, like, then you got like the real estate thing. And that was always just a matter of me. It was like, there's a game going on here. Yeah. And as soon as I realized that, oh, hey, man, like, I realized when I was pretty young, I'm paying someone else's mortgage.

Yeah. When I'm paying rent, I'm paying someone else's mortgage. How do you win that game? The answer is you do not win that game. You do not win that game. You do not win that game. You have to get in a position where you're putting money and equity into your future, not someone else's future. So that's the kind of thing where it's like, yes, that's a move I'm going to make.

And I'm going to sacrifice to be able to do it. I was house poor my entire Navy career, completely house poor, driving a 1997 Dodge Grand Caravan for 13 years. That's a piece of shit car, man. That's like there's no, that's an ego, you know, you see guys, their big trucks is the other end of the spectrum the deflater this is the deflater like hey I'm rolling up in a 1997 the freaking window on the driver's side didn't work so it's taped up yeah but uh that's what that's when I read when I realize that these games were in play that's when I started to be able to play the game whether that game is like oh real estate paying someone else's

paying rent is paying else someone else's mortgage that's not a winning game that's not How you win that game. Am I always gonna need a house? Kind of. I'm always gonna need a place to live. I got a family And believe me out there was times where I looked at all I can live in a you know, I was gonna do the boat live a board thing a lot of people got a team guys do that like I'll just live aboard a boat whatever save that money Cool, but again, you all you have to do is study that for 15 minutes and you realize that a boat is a depreciating asset It doesn't get it it loses value over time all of them like okay you can get a car that's a that's a classic or whatever. That's very rare. Cars, boats, planes,

they're all depreciating assets. So when I realized that, it's like, well, I'll move on a boat. Okay, that's a depreciating asset. Over time, I'm going to end up in a worse spot. The only way to do this is I got to buy a house. Okay. Then once I bought a house,

it was like, okay, well, how long do I need to hold on to this house before I can buy another one? How long for another one? How long for another one? And again, when you look at all these different things that are happening, you can start to say, oh, I can at least see the game that's being played and I can get in the game.

That's my recommendation. With that, we will continue this thread. We'll see. Perhaps on the next podcast, I don't know. We'll review this one and see if there's a little bit more to add to it. If anyone has questions about this one, hit us up. Yeah. This one's helpful, man.

Even for me just listening, it's like, man, that's so helpful. Well, that's what I realized with these past couple podcasts. If I've got friends that I communicate with regularly and they don't realize this stuff, I know there's a lot of people that I haven't done a good job of communicating this too. I know that, you know, look, I cover a lot of military stuff, cover a lot of leadership stuff. But it's interesting when I talk about military and leadership things, I always think that the correlations to life are so obvious. but they're not as obvious as you think they are.

Not as obvious as I think they are. So this is one of those where hopefully people can see through pretty direct communication the concepts that we're talking about. And everyone is susceptible to the problems that can occur if you don't know about the game. So speaking of that, We got chocolate fuel. We both have been drinking a lot.

You drink a mulk during this? Yes. How was it? Good. That's handing banana cream all day. Okay. Not as obvious as my normal chocolate. But bro, I seriously drink two of those a day.

Yeah. Because I got the freaking stock pile at home. Yeah. So get yourself some protein. It's really easy. You know, you first alerted me to the fact that if you're trying to get the amount of protein that you need, 30 grams of protein. is a legitimate nudge.

Yep. It's a legitimate, like, oh, this is a legitimate boost to the protein intake. I think that's more than a normal, like, what do you call? Like the your FD, like a normal meal,

like a normal one-serving meal or whatever, 30 grams is more than in a normal meal. There you go. So Mulk, we got these beautiful drinks. We didn't call them energy drinks. I mean, they are called energy drinks, technically speaking, drinks are bad for you and this one's good for you so we're in a totally different level

we're not in the game that they're in no they're in the game of poisoning you yeah we're in the game of making you better yeah smarter faster stronger jacofuel dot com get some of that you can get it at wah-wah you can get it at vitamin shop the military commissaries look if you're i got word the other day that there's a military commissary that was lacking so hey also check in the uh in like the health and wellness section of stores. Sometimes you're looking in the energy drink section. Some stores put them in there.

Sometimes they put them over in the health and wellness. So check that out. Military Commerce Series, Hanifer, dash stores in Maryland, Wake Fern and ShopRite, Circle K and Florida, H.E.B.

Shout out to all my people in Texas that are rolling into HEB and clearing shelves. Freaking outstanding. Thank you. Murphy's, Meyer, up in the Midwest. So there you go. Jock Fuel.

Get some. Get some is what we like to say around here. Yep. It's true. Also, origin USA. American made apparel. We're going to start with jujitsu stuff. Gis.

When you're doing jihitsu, you need a good ghee. So why not get the best ghee? And plenty options. So don't even worry about like, oh, I got to get the one. No, you can get whichever one you want. Why would you run out and buy a Model T Ford that was rusty when you could go out and legitimately buy a Cadillac?

Because that's the difference between a normal ghee and an origin geese. It's like that. And that's not even. dimension where it's made. You know what's the whole other thing huge. Actually, probably even huger when you really think about the big game, if you will. So you'm saying? But yes, best of both worlds.

Guis rash guards, got some shirts, some hoodies. Okay, so I have four, well, actually I have like eight origin hoodies. A hundred percent the past month and a half, hundred percent every single day, even weekends, I wear the hoodies. Yeah, well, it's a little chilly out here in California for the California's, especially for the Hawaiians be thinking it's, you are a little, though, heavy hoodie. Well, you and I were doing it. doing some filming today.

Hell yeah. And I had like, I wear my origin hoodie every day and it's just covered in food. I was like, dude, I gotta, I gotta give me a second, you know. I got like scraps of steak on here. There's meatball on there. I just had to clean that thing off because, you know, I guess I'm not one of those people that's super into like, you know, uh, whatever fashion. Hey man, you look great.

So we get the hunt gear too. Got the jeans. Delta jeans. Delta 68's. Yeah, come on. Multiple levels of wash too. Oh, yeah, that's right. That's right.

We got a wash house. Yep. That's a thing. Do you know the dynamics between the, the, what? Like, do you know under what circumstances you wear the dark, the medium, and the light? Under what circumstances? Yeah, like, you know, when you wear light jeans, that's like a daytime, spring. It's more casual, dark jeans, more like dressy.

Is you know, and then it's a spectrum. Bray, you got to know that kind of stuff. When you in Big H are going out on dates, just saying, I'm here to help. You got another game you're playing. Also, Jocco has a store. It's called Jocco store. That's where you can represent

with discipline equals freedom, deaf core, to the core on this path. Shirt locker. While we're playing this game. I've seen the last shirt locker. Shirt.

No free dopamine. No free dopamine. Just throwing that out there as a flag. Yeah. Like, hey, I'm here. No free dopamine. Yeah. If you're wearing that shirt

and you're looking at Instagram and you're scrolling, Yeah and it's sucking. It's giving you free dopamine, dopamine, dopamine, dopamine, dopamine. Nope, violating the whole. Fill let it happen. Come on. It's true.

Clear your brain. Clear your brain. Shirt locker. Yeah. Shirt locker, new shirt every month. Check that one out. It's all in jocco store.com. Subscribe to the podcast.

Go to Jocko Underground. Check that out. Jocco Underground.com. Go to YouTube. Jocko podcast on YouTube. Origin USA on YouTube. Psychological Warfare. Flipside Canvas to Codemire.

I talked to him. him the other day he's just getting after it just getting after it no matter what Dakota Meyer he's got his own gym down there in Texas if you're in Texas if you're in the Austin area go to check out his gym it's called own the dash yeah gym yeah I saw a guy with one of his shirts on outside oh Dakota Meyer represent dig it there you go books got a bunch of books jocco publishing Holly McKay's book get one of those we we did another print of those so pick one of those up awesome book and I've written a bunch of books.

Final Spin, novel. There's novel things happening with Final Spin. There's also some novel things happening with Warrior Kid. Look, we'll talk about this more in the future. But let's just say we like the way things are going. Written a bunch of books. So check those out. We also have Eschleon Front.

We solve problems through leadership. All your problems are leadership problems, and we will get them solved. Go to Escalonfront.com. If you need help there, if you want to come to one of our live events, We also have the Extreme Ownership Academy. We just redid this whole thing, revamped it. Actually, it's not even just a revamp. It's like a totally new, totally new, what is it, website?

Is that what it's called? Totally new website. We got free courses on there to take. We got Dave Burke and I did a course. Good deal. Yeah, a free course. Jamie Cochran and I did a course. So take those free courses.

Go to Extreme Ownership.com. You can check out some of the other content that we have. Because look, this is what we're talking about, all these games that we're talking about, you need to win in these games. The way you win in these games by having the right skills. Extremeownership.com will give you those skills. And if you want to help service members active and retired, you want to help their families, gold star families, check out. Mark Lee's mom, Mama Lee. She's got a charity organization.

You heard her on the podcast. You heard about her son. If you want to donate, you want to get involved, go to America's Mighty Warriors. org and also don't forget about Micah Fink who at present time is up there in the wilderness somewhere he's got a small mountain line in one hand and he's got a bow and arrow on the other hand and he's in the pursuit of a grizzly bear that's what he's doing right now so go to heroes and horses.org if you want to help him help our veterans and also if you want to connect with us we're on the interwebs echo charles is on Twitter

He's back on Twitter. Mistakes were made. They've been amended. Growth is re-respawning his life on Twitter. Sure. Yep. So check him out. He's at Echo Charles.

He's on the gram. He's on the Facebook. Yeah, it's true. At Echo Charles. I'm at Jocka. Listen, if you're going to go on there, though, just be careful. Because there's free dopamine on there. They might as well be giving you cocaine or methamphetamines.

And it's getting better too, by the way. Just let me throw that out. You mean they're getting better at manipulating your brain? With the algorithm, yes. The algorithm is just honed. Honed. Yeah. Like if you,

if you are into Jiu-Jitsu, but you're really into umapata's, it's like showing you more umapata's. If you really into surfing, but you're a, you really like single fin 70s guns. Sure. Which I do.

Hell yeah. That's, guess what just miraculously pops? up so they're tracking on you yeah that's the algorithm watch out and thanks to our members of the Army Navy Air Force Marines who are playing the ultimate game around the world preserving freedom thank you for your service and thanks also to our police and law enforcement firefighters paramedics EMTs dispatchers correctional officers Border Patrol Secret Service and all first responders thank you for preserving our way of life here at home and to everyone else out there

Don't lie to yourself. And until next time, this is Echo and Jocko.