Jocko Podcast - 371: We Are What We Pretend To Be.

Episode Date: February 1, 2023

Navigating and understanding the game of life... and the game within the game. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 371 with Echo Charles and me. Joccoe Willink. Good evening. Good evening. We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful of what we pretend to be. There's a little quote from Kerr Vonnegut. One of my favorite authors. Look, that's kind of a weird thing to say because I don't have like this big list of favorite authors.

But he's one of the authors that I actually do really like a lot. Kurt Vonnegut born and raised in Indianapolis, went to Cornell University, got kicked out of ROTC, because he had bad grades, and he was a little over the top with his satire in the school newspaper. So that kind of tells you what kind of a duty was.

But then he didn't want to get drafted, so he withdrew from college to go get enlist in the Army. 1943, got captured during the Battle of the Bulge, a prisoner of war in Dresden. Of course, I'm just giving you a basic background if you don't know this stuff. while he was a prisoner of war in Dresden Dresden got fire bombed

by the allied forces 25,000 civilians were killed and the place was just a wasteland and he had survived they were being held as prisoners of war in this slaughterhouse and he went into like the meat locker

of the slaughterhouse which is where the book Slaughterhouse 5 comes from anyways he survives the war becomes a reporter wrote a bunch of really good books very funny dark humor cat's cradle book welcome to the monkey house slaughterhouse five which I already talked about but this quote that he he gave which is we are what we pretend to be so we must be be careful of what we pretend to be it reminds me of this idea that we've been talking about for the last two podcasts and if you haven't listened to podcast 369 and 370 then just

stop and go listen to those first and then catch up here. But we've been talking about this idea of the game. And there's multiple games. And you can go get that information from those other two podcasts. Also kind of reminded me of this idea of Sam Harris and I were talking one time. And he said, you can't pretend to be brave. Because if you're scared and you're like, well, I'm really scared, but I'm going to pretend to be brave. And then you go and do brave stuff.

Well, you're not just pretending. You're actually brave. but we have so that's kind of along the same lines somewhat as be careful what you're pretending to be because that's what you are and that's reminded me of what we've been talking about you have to be careful of what game or what games you play because you can quite possibly become those games more importantly the game that you play can become your life So we did those last two podcasts about this 369, 370, and we were getting a bunch of feedback and questions and comments and whatnot.

And so I reached out on social media on the interwebs to get some of those questions, get some of that feedback on those two podcasts, and I want to go through those now, just because a bunch of people want, you know, we had had some stones, we didn't turn over yet, had some angles we hadn't seen. So first one out of the gate from Sarah Armstrong. What's up Sarah Armstrong? She said, observation. If your win involves the participation of other people, make sure you are not setting yourself up for disappointment by setting unrealistic expectations for others.

Yes, this is true. This is factual. We did a early podcast where I talked about the fact that I don't have a bunch of high expectations for for other people. Yeah. Because if you set other people with a bunch of high expectations, you're counting on them, there's a decent chance you're going to get let down.

Yeah. And why do that? Why not take ownership of what's going on yourself? So that's my recommendation. And Sarah Armstrong is right here. We can't. You can't count on others. Look,

they can be part of the plan, but you better have a backup. And you better not have a single point of failure be relying on some other human. because you're there's a decent chance you're setting yourself up as Sarah says for disappointment So don't expect too much if anything from others someone else next one This is from from Bizzle Fitness I don't know if I'm gonna cover all these weird handles

Yeah that people have different call signs Really enjoy these last two I'd like to hear your thoughts on two related aspects to this pitfalls and opportunity costs that's number one and two balancing multiple games easy example the folks that get old and either wish they had worked less or spent more time with their family or those on other extreme who wish they had done more with their lives yeah there you go so first for the pitfalls and opportunity costs and as i went through these we're going to come into we're going to start hitting into a common theme in a lot of these questions and that is investment and return on investment, right? So a pitfall and any game that you play is you can lose. So when you get on the field or you engage in a game, there's a chance you're going to lose. So what that means is you have to be careful with what you invest into that game and you have to hedge your bets and you have to have contingency plans. Now what's interesting about this is like the whole idea of like 100% commitment, which is sort of a, like, do you hear this about seal training? Like you have to have no backup plan or officer

and a gentleman, your officer, a gentleman. The movie. I got no place to go. I got nothing else. Hell yeah. That's kind of a positive thing. Like I have no backup plan. Oh, I'm gonna start a business and I'm just,

I'm putting everything, every out, every penny I have into it. And if it fails, I'm just done. I'm gonna be in the streets. Mm-hmm. Right. And therefore I'm going to go extra hard to make it work. If you have to do that to yourself psychologically, okay. If you don't have to do that to yourself psychologically,

and you can set yourself up to have a backup plan if through your primary plan, like seal training, there's a decent chance that you're not going to make it through it. Because you got hurt, because you got injured, because you got sick, because you didn't, you thought you were tougher than you are and you quit. All those things happen. They happen to 80% of people that go there. So having a backup plan, as long as you don't use that as you're out.

Now look, if you're going to use that as you're out, yeah, it's going to let you down. If you're going to work hard in your business, but at the end of the day, you're like, you know what? I can still just go back to my old job and I still have my house, so I'm just going to go back to my old job

and move back and just continue on. As opposed to being like, no, I'm going to gut through it because I have nowhere else to go. You can see the dichotomy there. I would hope that you have the internal fortitude to push on and not

just hit the escape hatch the minute it comes up, right? What did I heard some weird experiment? I forget where I heard it. Like they were drowning. Was this a Jordan Peterson the other night? They were drown. If you take a chicken

or a rabbit or something and they would drown it. And they would hold it, they would make it tread water. That's what it was. They would make a rabbit tread water. And I heard this on a podcast or something. I think it, I think, anyways, I heard it on a podcast.

You take the rabbit and you put it in the water or a rat. I think it was a rat. You put it in the rat in the water and it can tread water and it treads water trying to live, trying to live, trying to live. And then right as it goes under for the last time, you pull it out of the water. And that takes about 15 minutes. And then if you do it with those same rats again They'll tread water for like it was something like 60 hours Because they think at any minute

They're gonna get pulled out of the water But if you take a fresh rat it's still only gonna make it 15 minutes So if you if you have the type of personality where you're just gonna give up and go back to the easy way Then I get it You know like don't maybe you don't have a a backup plan because you want to trap yourself where you have to keep going forward. That's a real thing, man. That's a real thing.

Wait, so that rat experiment, what did that, what was that conclusion there that, like, if you got some hope, you're just going to hang on until, yeah. Hope will make you hang on. Hope will make you hang on. That's crazy. Yeah, it is. Yeah. But it totally makes sense, right?

Yeah. And almost at the same time, which is, like, equally, if not more significant, the lack of hope will make you just be like, hey, I'm kind of done. 10 minutes, bro. There ain't no getting out of this. Yeah, like you literally have plenty of energy left to stick it out for, you know, however long. But the lack of hope just pushes you right under. Yeah.

So to be honest with you, my lean is towards like, yeah, you should have contingency plans. You should have backup plans. You should have backup plans. You should head your bets. You should say, oh, yeah, I'm going to try this new business, but I'm not going to quit my old job until I've got it up and running. Now there's probably a subset of people that can't do that. And they're like the rat that just is going to give up after 15 minutes. You know what I mean? And they're just done.

Yeah. Don't you feel that like if you draw the parallel like where someone, I don't know, what were you talking about like starting a business? Starting a business. Okay. Oh yeah. I want to leave my job. I'm going to start a new business.

Yeah. So basically the equivalent kind of, I guess, in a way is, yeah, you start your new business. You buy the website. That's the first step. Get that URL. And then, you know, you start it in whatever way. But you hit a roadblock so hardcore that you don't have that hope. You literally don't see it going anywhere, like literally in your mind.

Regardless of how it would, you know, like that'll kind of do the same thing. It's like, oh, yeah, just drowned. I'm just going to drown myself because I lost the hope. You know, rather than, oh, this is just getting really hard or, you know, this obstacle is like it's big and I don't have the energy. You know, it's more about, oh, yeah, I don't see it going anywhere. But if you already quit your other job, then maybe that pushes you, right? Maybe you have you you have no other choice. It's a little bit different because it's like you have no other choice not about hope anymore.

It's like you have to hang on. Yeah, what else are you going to do? Yeah. So I get it that is a pitfall is the pitfall of all these different games if you play these games you can lose and that means you need to in my opinion Don't over invest. This is why we have the iterative decision making process This is why we make little steps. We don't just go you know what I want to start my own business quit my job give up my health insurance for my family can't pay the rent next month whatever but I'm gonna start my new I'm gonna sell in widgets we're gonna go for it and

you're gonna work hard to sell those widgets because you got a family of feed you want to pay your mortgage but guess what there's a chance that that thing it just was a bad plan and no one wants your stupid widgets and now you're out of a job you don't have health insurance for your kids so why not take iterative steps the other thing is the opportunity cost for sure how much can you invest in winning a game right how much can you actually afford what and then what's the ROI when you're playing this game instead of that game what's the ROI on the game that you choose yeah and is it worth it what if you win that game

what if you lose that game you have to track risk and you have to track ROI there this is stuff that you need to think about you need to think about the risk in the game and what the ROI is should you win and then what the'll Cost is should you lose. And this is to do with anything. Look, we're talking about the game. This is anything. Anything that you are planning on doing.

You plan on getting in a relationship? Okay, cool. What's the ROI? What's the risk? Oh, she comes from a great background. She's got a squared away education. She comes from a stable family. She's got a very even temperament.

Okay, cool. That sounds pretty positive. When you start seeing red flags in there, now you start saying, okay, well, there's some risk here. There's some risk there. So think about those things and make logical decisions, but when you make logical decisions, you still have to put emotions into the calculus because if you're doing if you're if

you're going to start this new business and you're totally passionate about it and you love it and you might make less money but you're you love doing it that might be better than you you're making more money. you hate your freaking life you hate your job 12 hours a day you hate so you have to take emotions and put them into the calculus so there you go that the other question there was how to balance multiple games that we're all playing we'll prioritize next year right and again what's the ROI and the risk per game in all these different games there's some games that you really have to pay attention to what do you want what do you what do you

you actually want what is actually going to give you fulfillment and you can't lie to yourself because there's people that lie to themselves about what's going to make them happy about what is going to give them fulfillment and if you lie to yourself for throughout your life that's when you end up on your deathbed to again going back to bizle fitnesses question that's when you go to your deathbed and you're like man I didn't care about all this money or man I didn't care about what you know this going up the chain of command in some in the military or in some company or getting you know I invested all my time into Jiu Jitsu and like I knew I wasn't gonna be a champion I wasted all whatever I don't know what it is seems like

like a hard one that you know what I'm saying yeah it's true there's people that there's people that reach a point in Jitza where they're like oh you know I I I don't want to do this anymore yeah that happens yeah yeah fully and I guess it With Jiu-Jitsu, I felt like, and I went through mental stuff like that too, where I felt like the whole reason that I liked Jiu-Jitsu is like to be able to get into a competition, like in almost like a combat sport and win. It made me feel good about myself kind of a thing. And then after like a few, you know, like years of competing. I go Charles with a psychological reveal. But after years of competing, and then when I got into like my.

career and then eventually kind of got married or whatever. I was like, wait. You kind of got married? I'm going to give you a chance to say that correctly so that we don't get any grief from I was going to say. The person that you kind of got married to. I was going to say I kind of got other responsibilities, so to speak, even though like jujitsu is a responsibility. That's why I say kind of. Anyway, you get married, start having like kids and stuff. It puts it into perspective like, hey, sure, I'm always going to go to jiu jihitsu, but why don't I feel the same way and I'm like oh wait it puts into perspective they're more important things than winning jiu-jitsu tournaments so you looked at the ROI of you

know training seven days a week three hours a day and you and the and the ROI of investing time and effort into your family and the ROI of investing time and effort into your career and this is exactly what we're talking about you had to prioritize and execute you know what seven days a week three hours a day and my My ROI on that is I'll feel good about a competition. Yeah. But the ROI of investing in my career is I can get money, I can get stability, I can take care of my family.

And by the way, that's the other thing, my family. There's the ROI of, you know, raising my kids and the smile on my wife's face, all those things. And you weigh those out and you're honest with yourself and you prioritize those things in the correct way so that when you're on your deathbed, you're not like, man, I really wish I would to train Jiu-Jitsu more or you're like boy I'm glad I won that tournament yeah you know even though my wife left me and my kids don't know me I'm really happy I won that tournament and I got a coral belt in Jiu-jitsu when I was 68 yeah that was that was kind of the thought really where

it went through this you went through this with your uh with with these things in your life you actually did this protocol and we talked about this we talked about that being honest with yourself that was sort of the underlying theme of I think 370 the the last one was like you have to be honest with yourself about these games and in this podcast as I read through these questions the specific thing is you need to be honest yourself about the investment you're willing to make and what the return is and is it worth it and is it what you really want yeah because if it's not you know I've seen this happen with fighters too like fighters reach a certain point where they say you know what I mean like I just

I'm I don't want to do eight week camps where I can't see my family and got to whatever happens with people in the military they're like you know what I've done my 10 years I'm not committed to the job anymore I don't want to do it anymore and they get out and they move on to something else the ROI they have to be honest with themselves I've also seen people lie to themselves yeah about these types of things and by the time they get out of the military, they realized that they were pursuing something because they were basically

caught in that ecosystem. We talked about that on one of the other podcasts. Man, that's so true. The other thing that weighs into this, like, just to kind of get precise on what you just said, you knew you actually weren't going to be better than everyone at Jiu-Jitsu.

You weren't going to be the world champion. You were going to be good. You're going to be good at a particular, you'd be in the top three or five in a gym. You weren't going to be the number one. even in that particular gym, and you definitely weren't going to be number one

in the state of California or certainly not in the world. If you would have had that maybe potential, now all of a sudden the ROI becomes, oh, it's a little better ROI. I can actually be a champion. I can actually start a school. I can have a whatever.

You can make a living from it. Now there's other things that come out of it. You weren't in that situation. Oh, yeah. So, and that's a good point because you don't really, well, then again, I don't know. I can only speak for myself, but I didn't really think about that

until I got my eyes kind of opened where I'm like, oh, wait, there's all this other stuff that I can be like, kind of, I could see a path to legitimate success over here. But then in jihitsu, if I even like think about it like that, which I never really did. I just was like I liked training and winning and then doing the tournament or whatever. But then if I look at like a more long-term path, you're right. I was like, yeah, I'm not going to prove. I'm not even close to these, like the real dudes, you know. So I'm like, oh, why would I do this?

Nice thing about having Dean Lister in the gym. We were like, bro, this guy. And Dean Lister, you know, he was number one in the world at certain times. a lot of times he's getting beat by the guys. So you're thinking, well, this guy's destroying me. So where am I? I'm gonna be like third or fourth or fifth in my gym. And keep in mind, I'm in my 30s at this time.

So let's face it, you know, but the point is I was, I didn't, my eyes weren't even open to that. It was just like, it was part habit, part payoff going to the gym and learning cool stuff or whatever, but will you, just like how you said, that ecosystem, you get blinded by just that ecosystem because you're just in it, you know? And then so other things open. in my eyes or whatever and then you can see you know and for me the jih Tzu is just an R.O. The R.O.I. in Jiuitsu is the personal like the good feeling when I get done training.

Yeah. And especially when I kind of go to war like when I'm having wars on the mat. It feels good. Get done. Like you just know you pushed. Yeah. You got tapped. You tapped. Whatever. Doesn't matter. But you, you, you, you struggled. You went to war in, in, in that. arena which is fun. That makes sense. BJ Penn actually said on this podcast it's called mind pump he was on this podcast he's a he was like I I train for my mental health and I was like oh that's so true because really that's essentially what you said it's like you go in it's like it's therapy in so many different ways you it's the kind it's so good where like just the activity and I found that even when I go and I don't have hard training or I do have hard training to me

it's all the same at the end I mean look if you have a bunch of super duper easy trainings in a row and you're like, freak I wish I, okay, there's that. But you go to Jiu-Jitsu, unless you get injured, which I have before, but unless you get injured, you go home,

you can feel better. 100%. Even if you really didn't feel like going, which is a lot of the time. But if you get yourself, it's like any workout, you know, but Jiu-Jitsu has those extra elements of like, I don't know,

something that like fulfills you or whatever. Yeah. No, they made that, uh, they made that video at origin of my daughter talking about it. And she was just like, once she realized,

how good it made her feel, but mentally. That's when she was like, oh, I can, I should do this all the time. Yeah. And it happens when you withdraw from it. And you're like, well, I don't know I feel that good. And all of a sudden you do it, you're like, oh. Yeah. So that's what I feel like.

Yeah. So the ROI on that level for me, Jiu-Jitsu, this just, this just, this just, this just devolved into just a pure jujitsu discussion. But it applies to everything. Yeah. It applies to checking the ROI on the game. Whether that game is you're going to get focused on getting involved in, your your thing at work like where's it go that someone people get caught up in they get

caught up in like oh I'm in this job I'm in this corporation and I'm gonna make it I'm gonna make it to the next level make it the next up okay that's cool as long as that R-O-I is real as long as you're like oh if you're like hey I'm just doing this because the pay's great and I can take care of my family and I'm gonna get promoted and get more money okay cool cool work hard and that all works out. If you're thinking, oh, I want to, I want people to call them. I want to be the VP, right? I want to be the EVP.

And then you think that's going to make you feel better. And if it does, cool. That's fine. That's awesome. Like, hey, you rose up. You were in a big company. You were running a big department. You had a lot of responsibility.

You're taking care of people. That is totally legit. As long as you're telling yourself the truth. If you're lying to yourself, that's when it becomes problematic. It's one thing that's so cool about Eschlam Front is I work with so many different people. Like, there's people. that do you can name it and they're totally into it man and it's awesome like I want I love to work with people that whatever they're doing whether they're digging ditches but they're doing

safely and they're doing you know doing huge contracts and it's awesome they're running big companies and it's cool they love doing that stuff or they're you know making a product or they're providing a service but they're into it they're in the right game and I hope that if you're listening, you can do an honest assessment of yourself and make sure that that game that you're in is the right game for you. And if you're doing something that you say, I don't care about my clients,

if you don't care about the people that you're serving or you're providing service from, that's not a good indicator. If you're working with people you don't really like or you don't really wanna take care of, that's not a good indicator. So be honest with yourself and make sure that the game that you're in

from a work perspective is the right game. That's a lot more common problem then I'm into a, you know, Jiu-Jitsu is an example, but any hobby that you're into. Like you invest a bunch of money into archery. You wouldn't invest a bunch of money unless you liked it, unless the ROI was good.

So the hobbies are a little bit easier to just, I'm not going to do that. Actually, the hobbies are the opposite where you should be doing it, but you're not. You know you should be training Jiu-Sat, you know you should be lifting weights, you know you should be running

or doing whatever thing it is because you know it makes you feel good, but you say, you know, right? You forget about the ROI. You forget about the return. You only think about the investment. Well, you know, I've got to get up early and do this before I go to work and that's kind of a pain.

You only focus on the investment. You don't focus on the return. The return is your health. And that's what you should focus. That's why measuring the investment and measuring the return on investment of what you do in the game, whatever game it is, that's why I'm trying to get you to pay attention to that. All right. Next one Carter Royce I guess Carter Hoyce maybe if he's from Brazil

If everyone on a team has a different overall life game slash goal How do you work to align these different perspectives into one that benefits the overall team and this is work? Relationships community Let here's the here's the cool thing about this Living well doing good and helping each other Generally speaking helps helps ourselves as well Well, it generally, so when you're talking about interacting with other people, whether it's at work, whether it's in your family, whether it's in your community. If you help other people, it's going to help you.

And if everyone recognizes that, then we're all aligned. So if I help Echo, if you and I work together and if you work hard and so you provide a good service to our clients, I benefit. You benefit I benefit and we both know that at Eschelon Front. Okay, so take Eschlam Front. We got a bunch of instructors there The better each individual instructor does right the better JP does the better Laf does the better I do The better Dave does the better each individual instructor does Providing the service for the client the better that individual does and the better Eschlam front does Because people call back say we we we want JP to come again. Yeah, he's great. We want him to come and do a four day workshop like that's what happens. So guess what? JP makes more money. Aschalon Front makes more money. The client gets

taken care of. So that's the way it is with most in your family. Oh, your kid is, you get your kid to study. You know, you talk, you explain to them, but why, they study hard. They get better grades. They get better grades. That's beneficial. Not just for you, you'd be like, hey, Mike, it's a straight student right you get to brag cool but also your kid gets a better life they get into a better school they get a better job all that stuff happens the family's doing better because now I don't have to rely my kids not relying on me for that for that you know kicking down some some money because they don't have a good job how does alignment roll into that because like I was asking like everyone has a

different overall gaming goal well what I'm saying is if you're part of a team because he's talking about an individual team whether that team is a family a company if we you know at my family if I say hey listen we got to do a better job with not spending so much money we're wasting money on this we're wasting money on that people are going buying a cup of coffee that cost three dollars it's it's hurting us we need to tighten it up so when I say that to the whole family the whole family realize oh I need to spend less money guess what we end up with more financial security because we're not wasting a bunch of money and that means we can

You know get that new roof that we need because our roof is leaking yeah like this is what happens So when you're all working together it's very rare that something that helps the individual Doesn't help the team right because because then what why are you part of why is there a team? Yeah teams are meant to achieve a goal Whether that's a business whether that's a family Whether that's a sports team, you know, if Echo, if you and I are part of the same company and you and I are supposed to make widgets and you make 10 a day and I only make five a day, the fact that you made more than me is actually good for you because you're going to get your bonus, but it's also good for me.

I don't want to like undermine you because then all of a sudden we're not getting as many of our widgets made and now we don't have as many to sell and now some other. place can come in and get a market share from us and that's a problem. So for this, when you climb the ladder of alignment, which I talk about a lot at echelon front, you and I might be competing to make widgets, right? You and I are getting a bonus based on how many we make and whoever makes more gets a better bonus. We're competing. But as soon as we go up one level, up the ladder of alignment, And I say, hey, I don't want to actually like steal some of your parts for your widget so you can't make as many or so your widgets don't meet the quality.

And now someone out in the marketplace buys it and it doesn't work right. And now they complain to put it on Yelp and now our sales go down. Yeah. So when you go up and say, hey, look, even though we're competing against each other, see who can make more widgets and still maintain quality, even though we're competing against each other, if you go up one level, we're actually working together. because if we provide good widgets and we make a lot of them, there'll be more to sell. We can lower the price a little bit, which means we can sell even more.

We can drive some other people out of the market. Like, that's what's happening. Yeah. So climb the ladder of alignment a little bit, go to a higher place where it's like, oh, we are on the same team. Yeah. I always listen to that when you say,

climbing the ladder of alignment because, you know, people, that's like one of the main question that people ask you in my, I mean, in my experience, I'm like, hey, what do you do when we're not aligned? And this person has a little separate agendas, right? And so I'm thinking, wait a second. Yeah, that's obviously a common problem. So why is it always that's like, not that simple,

but why is it always, like you always have that same solution? And it makes perfect sense. So I'm still thinking, why the hell is it still a problem like that much? Because people mistake agendas for alignment. They mistake the fact that you and I are competing to who can make more widgets. they mistake that fact that we're competing and we're actually trying to go against each other with the fact that if you go up a few levels, we're actually both trying to do the same thing and move in the same direction.

Yeah. Yeah, I realized slowly, but surely the jam up comes when someone invokes their short-term agenda at the expense of the long-term agenda, even for themselves, by the way. And when that happens, so I steal some of your. parts yeah and I mess them up and I put them back in your bucket of the widgets you're assembling yeah so I can look better yeah so I look better yeah and all someone needs to do is pull me aside and say hey jaco we got you know we saw that we saw what you did let me ask you this jaco if you know someone buys one of the parts that echo made one of the

widgets that echo made it doesn't work what's that going to do to our reputation oh now they're gonna want but not gonna want to buy the ones that you made either oh now we're not selling as many of these things oh now in order to cover our margin we got to raise our prices oh now that we've raised our prices the competitor comes in and is looking even better with an even lower price oh we're getting driven see what I'm saying all you have to do is pull the thread on it and you realize that occasion it's so rare and usually this what I say it's so rare that people are actually not aligned yeah once you go high enough look we can be aligned even in a seal putins like you have you have Seth in

in Delta platoon and Laif and Charlie Patoon they're competitive against each other. You know, they both want, we only got, you know, seven of the new weapon sites, the new high speed weapon sites. Laif wants them all. Seth wants them all. And if they're going to steal them from each other,

that's bad. But if I say, hey, guys, who's got a mission that more requires these sites? And Leif's like, well, you know, Seth's doing this, these patrols over in this area, that's further ranges, they could probably use them. Oh, okay.

As soon as you go up a level, the problem gets solved. Occasionally, very rarely, Echo actually wants to start his own widget business. So he's doing things that legitimately are not aligned. He's making parts that are not, he's making widgets that suck. And they're going to go out in the market.

We're going to have a bad reputation. He's going to go, I started Echo's widgets and we make the highest quality. So occasionally you can have people that are truly not aligned. At the top of the alignment, ladder of alignment they're not aligned this is what I always ask people I ask companies like okay who here doesn't want the company to be profitable no one raises their hands who here doesn't want to take care of the people on your team no one raise your

hand who here doesn't want to take care of your customer no one raises their hand so there all of a sudden everyone's aligned everybody wants to make money everybody wants to take care of their team and everyone wants to take care of the customers everyone's aligned no one goes like well I'd actually like to screw over the customers Or like, hey, I actually want my team to be in a bad position. Or I want the company to lose money. That's not happening. Same thing in war.

What do we want to do? Kill bad guys, keep our guys safe and win the war. Okay. Who here wants to get their guys killed? No one. Who here doesn't want to kill the bad guys? No one. Who here wants us to lose?

No one. So we're aligned. You might be thinking we should attack from this direction. I'm thinking we should attack from a different direction. But one of us is right. One of us is wrong. It's not that we disagree on what we're trying to. achieve. So we're aligned. We just have different ideas. And that's all there is to it. And it's the same

thing here when it comes to these various games that we're playing. Yeah, that, and JP tells a good story about this. But that, that's a good point where it's like, yeah, you might have two different ideas. But once you kind of realize how aligned you really are, you start to be like, wait a second, let's really hash out who has the better idea, whether it's you or me or whatever. But it puts it into perspective that much more. So, and that's what happened to JP, according to his story about you guys you know when he came back you know he has all these like important missions and all this like big huge impact he's made he comes back and then he has to be like an instructor which he thought was like not the it was like a misuse of his his value or whatever it was a danger to society it was a danger

to bud students i can guarantee you that i mean i can take jp in romadi as the lead sniper and then whatever two weeks later he's like standing in front of bud students that's not a good transition for JPM Nell at 22 years old you realize that's literally when I met JP oh really like right when he got back yeah so I met him for the first time with where did you meet him oh with cake nuts at sushi yeah he was like yeah but but he makes a great point where he's like he was so many he even admits like I was so mad I should be over there doing this you know killing back and he talks to you one time and you're like hey that was your mission then this is your mission now and we're

fighting we're doing this you're gonna train these guys so we the best you possibly possibly possibly can so they can be good enough to go over and we never have to go to free in Oregon boom just like that put back into perspective alignment revealed alignment revealed so there you go um there you go Carter hope that helps next one easy money dude hell yeah check how do you identify what games are worth playing or games to avoid again this is this is a study in return on investment. And it's not just return, it's return on investment. So it's what are you going to have to put into this thing and what can we possibly get out of it and what are the risks involved? And then you just have to be honest with yourself. Just be honest with you're looking at some game.

Want to get involved with a girl. Want to start a new business. Want to get involved in a club. You know, there's like a, you know, rotary club or whatever. Want to get involved in that thing. Want to get involved in some volunteer organization, whatever it is. What are you going to have to put into it? What's the return going to be? And what are the risks involved? And be honest with yourself. Did you know that Seinfeld had nine episodes

and they were like at the top of the charts and then he just stopped? What do you mean? He had nine episodes. Or not episodes, sorry, nine seasons. Yeah. And it was number one. And he just stopped.

And they were like, what the hell? They wanted him. They were going to pay him crazy amounts of money for a 10th season. So why didn't you do it? Because of this. He identified the game worth playing Because he looked back, he said, I'm not married, I have no kids, nothing. All I'm doing is this show, no matter how successful.

It was like, that's not worth it anymore. As far as my life, the games I'm playing. There you go. Perfect example. He had to look at it. He's got this game. He knows what the investment is. It's his time.

It's his effort. And he's putting everything into it. And he's already achieved. He's gotten what he, the return that he's gotten. And he's like, you know what? I got enough money. I got enough fame. I got enough credit.

You know, street. creed from who gives street cred comedian's cred or something i don't know yeah well it was it's literally one of the if not the most successful sitcom of all time sure so that's like that's a big deal to be like oh i'm done did you watch that show a lot yes like all of it yes okay pretty good i think so yes but it relates to like all the little everyday things in life and it like point it's yeah it's pretty good it's very i've watched i've watched probably i've watched some of them probably like 20 of them or something like that. But if there's nine seasons,

I really not even scratching the surface. But that's a great example. He looked at it, measured the ROI, and said, okay, cool, I'm done. And there you go. Good, good metaphor there. Next one is from that Jake Denham. Denham, something like that.

How did you learn about real estate investing? A guy told me, a guy in the SEAL teams, that I worked for was like, yeah, you know, I bought houses and they increased in value over time. I mean, I don't know how he said it specifically, but that, but that's basically what he said to me. He probably said something like, you know, I bought this house eight years ago. He's older than me. I bought this house eight years ago for 150 grand.

It's worth like 400 grand now. And I must have been like, hmm, like the slow turning things coming together. And the other thing in this one I did remember, he was like, because he rented these houses out. He's like someone else is paying my mortgage and that seemed very smart and I realized that I was one of those people that was paying someone else's mortgage and I didn't like that So started buying houses you know one at a time buy a house Yeah as soon as I had that house was kind of settled in and then bought another one and just tried to hold on to him And that's what I did Yeah, that's how I that's how I learned about real estate investing I took some really simplistic phrases from

But dude that was telling me what was up and just saw the game. I saw the game. That's, let's bring it back to this, right? I saw that this guy had bought a house for $100,000 and now it was worth $300,000 in like a seven-year period. But more, that seemed cool, more important. I realized that someone else was paying for that house. Yeah. And I realized where I was on the board, on the game board, right?

I was paying rent, bro. I was paying for someone else. house how would you feel if you're like at a bar and like you're sitting there drinking your beer and then the bill comes over and you're signing it and you're signing there's some other go dude he's having like hors d'oeuvres he's having bottle service bottle service and they're like yeah you're here's his bill you'd be pissed you wouldn't stand for it but we stand for that with when it comes to where we live we basically stand for it so once I realize we're out that's a good

example of oh there's a game. I didn't even know I was part of the game. I didn't know it's what was happening. You gave me the bill. I signed it. I didn't know this guy was over here with bottle service. You know, I'm paying for his bottle service. That's what you're doing. You're buying someone to house when you're paying rent. Look, are there times when you got a rent? Sure, you go to, you take a job. You're in a job for a short period of time. You're only going to be in this city for a year. And you don't know what's going to happen in the market. I'm not saying go run out and buy a house tomorrow. You need to understand what's happening. But if you know you're going to be somewhere for a longer period of time. Yeah. And you can afford to buy. house go buy house so I realize that that's what realized that's what made me realize it's one of the earlier games that I checked into another question from him is how to know when you're playing the wrong game and it's time to quit or switch games okay ROI right measure the ROI what are you getting out of this if you're gonna get a lot out of it but it's a lot of effort okay well is it worth the effort is it worth the investment time money leadership capital whatever the thing is

family is it going to be worth it or is it not and so you when you figure out the risks and you figure out the investment and you figure out the return you may or may not get based on those risks okay then you can make a decision we also now what's interesting about this question is we're in the game he's saying you're playing the wrong game so now what we have to do is we have to do an honest assessment of our in this game right how well am I doing am I making progress you know how now in the UFC when you watch the UFC they have the odds they show the odds after each round yeah yeah so now that's a new thing I don't know how new it is but it's a few years old but

like oh echo really did great in that last round against jaco his odds of winning now just went up oh jaco just came back and had a great round and plus echo was like stunned at the end of the round. It looks like he was going to get knocked out. He got saved by the bell. Oh, Jocco's odds just went up for the last round a lot. You have to do an assessment and see where you're at, right? And see what is your trajectory of what's happening? It's kind of like what you said you did with your jiu jitsu career. You're like, okay, I'm 30, whatever, you're 34 years old. I'm the seventh best guy in my gym, which is not bad, but let's face it, we're one gym. Okay. And, and, you're, you know,

I'm making progress, but so is everybody else. Okay, where am I at? Where am I going with this? Same thing with a job. You know, okay, I've been at this same job. I've been in this position for four years. I haven't been promoted in the last three years. I don't have a good relationship with my boss.

This does not seem like it's a good fit for me. So you've got to do an honest assessment of your trajectory. and make a decision. One thing that you can do is you can kind of mitigate risk, right? This is a story I've told a few times, but Greg McIntyre. Sure. Great train. Yeah, Greg train.

At a certain point, Greg's a badass. He's a freaking great wrestler. His jiu-jitsu is a great athlete. He's a good boxer. And he was kind of, he was starting in the MMA scene. and he had like he had real legit potential in MMA because he's a great wrestler tough as nails strong for I mean he's freaking 50 555 pounder he's strong as hell so Greg Train actually asked me and this was like probably 15 or 20 years ago this is a long

time ago yeah this is probably 20 years ago he was like what do you think I should do should I just dedicate my whole life right now to MMA or should I keep training but also he wanted to get a degree he wanted to become an X-ray technician that's what he is right and I was like listen bro how many hours a day can you train legitimately and I said can you train 16 hours a day and he said no I said no one can train 16 hours day how many if you really train hard how many hours a day can you train including recovery like the whole nine yards he's like I don't know maybe four or five right That's like training, conditioning, recovery.

Maybe you do six. Maybe you do six. Okay, you're going to work eight hours a day. You sleep eight hours a day. That's 16 hours, right? You got plenty of time to train and you can still have a backup to MMA in case you go to wrestling practice tomorrow and blow your knee out, which can happen on any given day. And so he played both games. You know and and he you know he had a good run at MMA. He also ran into some problems that were tough to deal with and so

He mitigated the risk played more than one game at the same time and when the MMA thing dried up Guess what he still had a cool career making good money beautiful family taking care of them house like the whole nine yards So that's a situation where he didn't necessarily quit the other game but he he mitigated the risk by playing multiple games at the same time. So there's this thing called the sunk cost fallacy. It's like, I got it in one of these questions for sure. Yeah, because that's a factor.

And I'm thinking back to my bouncer days where, you know, I had, you know, kind of, you know, I spent a few years there and like, and I remember one time my brother, Jade. He goes, he goes, hey, you ever thought about getting another job and I was offended? I was like, bro, all the stuff I learned, all the friends that I made, all this stuff, like basically all these commitments that I've made over the years and accumulated all these little, you know, results or whatever kind of kept me in there. Kind of like, hey, if I get it, if I start all over, it's kind of like, what about all that, what I put into? Yeah. That given the circumstances. And I'll tell you, you probably just gave the most shallow example of sunk cost of fallacy. Yep.

Yeah, because if you think about it, I mean, what is that really? Like you didn't look, you made some friends. You had moved up the chain where you were now like the shift lead or something like that. Yep. Which probably took you six months or something. When you get to people that are in legit sunk, oh, it's like, oh, I went to, I went to undergrad. I got my pre-law. I went to law school.

I did my freaking time as a clerk and went up through the chain of command. And now I'm a lawyer. It's been eight years. I've invested $450,000 and I freaking hate it. I hate this job. Yeah. That's sunk cost. Yeah.

Where they go, dude, do I really walk away from this right now? Yeah. That's where people have to, that's where the sunk cost makes people stick with the same crappy job that they don't like for a long period of time. Yeah. Which I recommend definitely watching out for. Well, you know, the common example of sunk cost is the movie theater one, which is more shallow than mine even. Do you, you already paid for the movie? Yeah.

You go in the movie. You go through halfway three, three, four. And you're like I might as well finish it. You know, I'm here. You know what I'm gonna do walk out of the movie. I already paid, you know that, you know? But no, bro, walk out. I, what I do in a movie sucks, I just go to sleep, bro.

I feel so like comfortable sleeping in theaters. Have you? When my kids were little, we'd go to see like one of those kids movies. Oh, yeah, yeah. And look, there's some really good kids' movies, but a lot of times they just, they're just not good. Like what? Moana.

Incredibles? Yeah, it's good. The Incredibles? I like Moana. That was a good. I don't know. Moana. I don't think I made it through that.

Bro, come on. I don't know if I made it. There's a lot of a lot of them. There's some coins for sure. So, but most of them going to sleep. I haven't walked out of a lot of movies. Well,

that's different. So, like, you walked out of a lot of movies? I walked out on the one with Angelina Julie and Ethan Hawk. Back at the day. I don't even.

Yeah, I even forget what it was. I remember he there was seen. I don't think I've. It didn't seem like your kind of movie, you know, but. But keep in mind, I think when you walk out of the, like you can't just tell the kids, hey, I'm bored with this kid's movie. So, you know, self-course falling asleep. That's like, hey, that's a good photo. It's kind of a joke in my family that if like when we, they would know. Yeah, yeah. I'm just going to sleep. They're hoping I'm not going to snore and embarrass them. Yes, sir. So again, this boils back to we have to pay attention to risk investment and return on investment. And we have to do an honest assessment. If you're in the game, you got to check your.

trajectory honestly and look you echo looked at his trajectory and said you know what I'm kind of a shift lead now I got these friends I could I can get I can get beer you know whenever I want I'm head of the line privileges at these other clubs I kind of right yeah but he had to look at a longer term trajectory like okay where am I going to be in five years and all you have to do is meet that one person that's like been a been in some position that you're in but they've been there for 17 years. Yeah. And you're like, oh. So there's like one more element involved in that exact thing right there. So, you know, when I started over there at the club, that was 23, just turned 23. So, you know, you see a guy who's like 40. You're like, oh, well, I'm only 20.

That's like two decades from now. You know, like, bro, I'll be, you know, whatever. You don't even think it's so far ahead. But then when you, after a while you get old, actually, it's not like 40. It's like you see a guy who's 30. You're like, I'm not going to meet that. That's like seven years, it's forever. It's like a third of my life, right? Yeah. What's he doing here? Yeah. And to be honest, you don't even apply it to yourself because that's just him and too bad. I mean, I guess, cool, up to you. That's your life. You know, whatever. And then you start reaching 28, 29 and remember back, wait a second. I was looking at that 130 and that's next year. So you're like, dang, that's when it hits you. Yeah, for sure. That's not hit me. It's real. That's real. That's when you realized

you were stationary. You were running on a treadmill that wasn't getting you anywhere. in a certain lane for sure. You were in the wrong game. I was in the wrong game. But here's the thing though. Like I don't want to paint this picture like it was all shit because to be honest, like I learned so much, which I didn't even realize by the way. I learned so much just dealing with people under certain types of circumstances. You're like, ah, you know, like, but yes. Like after a while you kind of hit the wall in that regard where you're like, well, as far as a career, because really when you reach 30s, that's like, if you're not in it, you're kind of like looking out for one, you know? And I didn't think.

Did you ever think about opening your own club? Yeah. And then what happened with that? It was just thought, you know? It just didn't even, it didn't formulate. Well, me and Sarah started dating. You know, when you have like a girlfriend who has a, well, I don't know. In my case, I had a girlfriend who had like a for real job.

She was making like for real money, like adult money. You know, it's like. What was she doing? Property management. Oh, check. So you kind of compare it, you know. I was like, yeah, I'm going to open a nightclub and be up all night. night still, you know, and I got to wake up at like 11 noon. Meanwhile, you know, I'm like

35, 40 years old doing that all the time. Like as a routine, I'm like, eh, which is would be cool, but I just contrasted it to me. Again, this is very important that you were able to detach and do an assessment and look at the game of like nightclub ownership and what does that entail? It means I got to be there. Like you looked at the game and you had a good comparison to look at Sarah's game and be like oh look we're going to be playing two different wildly different games that's if the ven diagram doesn't overlap very much like we'll see each other for actually we'll even see each other at night because she comes home you're at the clubs yeah that's okay yeah like a couple nights on me yeah so you you measured the trajectory the r oi the possibilities and you saw it it

wasn't good yeah good job echo charles next question is from levi kmix i don't know levick mix he says how do you play the game and trust that you're able to make competent decisions that are congruent with your growth? For example, I've grown in almost unfathomable ways over the last year, but I still have mindsets from who I previously was when making incompetent choices. I think what you need to do is take a step back and a beautiful way, and I'm probably going to say this a bunch, is when you want to detach and you want to assess what's happening, take a step back right down what's happening right down like when you got to make a decision write down the pros and cons that's why pros and cons lists are good it's not good because you don't

know it it's good because it makes you look at it from a detached perspective you get to see you keep it all in your mind you're in it when you take when you write it down you're like hey here's what's good here's what's bad oh my gosh the bad really outweighs the good okay cool because you were able to take a step back so writing things down when you come up to a decision point Hey, wait a second. Let me just, let me just go over what are the outcomes that I could get from making this decision. How is this going to go?

And then try and answer those questions without letting your emotions get involved. Again, not void of emotions. Put the emotions in the calculus, but don't let that drive the entire decision. And then, of course, make iterative decisions and then listen to the feedback. So make a little small decision. and direction that you think is right

and then pay attention to what the feedback is and make sure that it was the right decision if it's not, then change it. Do you, and this is kind of a weird hypothetical question for you, do you, let's say your 30-year-old self still in the military, right? Yeah, the dirt. Yeah, hell yeah.

If that 30-year-old jaco saw your jaco right now and would like watch you and whatever, would the 30-year-old jaco be like, Oh shit, he's a different person or would he be like, okay, he's just like older and wiser? I think he'd be like, yeah, that, oh, I see the conclusion of that idea the way it developed. I see like it's kind of cool. Like when I look back at my career in the military. Yeah.

I don't say, you know, from a leadership perspective, here's this horrible thing that I did and it didn't work. Usually I'm like, hey, here's what I did. And this is why I did it. And it still makes sense. And that goes back to when I was 30 years old. Now, there's things where I go, you know what? Could have done that better,

but I can see that the trajectory of the way I was thinking was just not fully formulated yet. Yeah. But I wasn't doing anything that was like 180 out. Yeah. You know? Uh-huh. It was like, oh, yeah,

I really hadn't, I really hadn't quite gotten to this conclusion yet. Yeah. Or I hadn't evolved that thought pattern yet, but it was going in the right direction. So I think if my 30-year-old self, would go, oh yeah, I can see where that, where you got that from. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

Something along those lines. Because I'm kind of remand, and I'm sure it's like, you know, the slow burn of you changing in whatever way you changed since even before. You know, back in the day when we were like training, I was competing and you were, to me it feels like you're the same person, like literally the same talk trash person, except now you talk about leadership, too, you know, like a site. But. Yeah.

And what's funny is when you and I were training, I was talking about leadership, just not to you. Yeah. I mean, I was already, you know, that's what I was doing. Do you know, and I think I told you this. Actually, you already know this because you were part of it. The first video I made for money was with you. Actually, the first like five video. I mean, money was video.

But you were talking about leadership to some teachers. It was like we were making a DVD or something. I remember. And it was for teachers. And so I came across that, all those files. And I was listening to it. And it's all like underdeveloped echelon front stuff. Oh, for sure.

It's so funny. You're all young. But anyway, my point is, yeah, like you, it doesn't seem like you changed it at all. No. And like the principles that we talk about, like when you're talking about that, those principles are the same. Yeah. The same thing. There's not been there.

There might be like I have might have a better way of explaining something. Oh, yeah. Yeah. different angle for sure. Oh, yeah. But you're way, you are actually are a lot different. It just doesn't seem, it doesn't feel like it to me, like day to day. But yeah, if I were to, if you were to like rewind and even watching those videos, I'm like,

oh, this is like young jaco, but you're still the same jaco, but you change a lot. But it's not like, I'm comparing it to myself, like when I was like 25 or something. Bro. My 25 year old still would barely recognize me now. Well, yeah. Well, that's true, I think, with everybody. and if you used like my 25 year old self was definitely wild like was a little bit out of control and was uh kind of a maniac and i remember i remember when we were on with uh with jim kunkle and charlie plum and they were

like talk these guys are like just i don't want to use the word saintly but kind of saintly like heroic dudes yeah and they were kind of like throwing me in you know with this sort of uh elevated kind of virtue. And I was like, hey, guys, I just want to make sure I was a maniac when I was younger. And so let's not get too crazy with that stuff. Yeah, I remember that. But yeah, I mean, the principles and also,

you know, you explain something and then you explain it again and you see, oh, that was a little bit better. So you get better at explaining stuff over time, especially going from explaining stuff to guys in the teams where you're just using pure military examples and then as I worked with more and more companies like oh here's another civilian example there's another business example there's a family example and you start to be able to be able to tap into these other ways of explaining things that are that are easier for some people to understand makes sense yeah so there you go next one D

Digarmo 4. Thoughts on how your concept of the game matches and or contradicts Simon Senex finite or infinite game concept. And that's a good question. Obviously, using the term game. And there's going to be, let's see where that ends up. And one thing that's interesting about this is that idea of finite versus infinite games is actually from a guy named James Kars. who's an American philosopher, academic guy from NYU,

and he wrote a book in 1987. That's called Finite and Infinite Games. But as far as the concept goes, it's not so much that they match or they contradict what we've been talking about. It's not that they match or they contradict. So to give you the definition here, a finite game is like any game,

that has parameters around it so I always say chess like chest you have 64 squares you got 16 pieces per side they can only the pieces can only move in certain directions right that's a finite game basketball there's a court there's a ball there's a number of steps you can take when you're not dribbling there's a height of the basket there's a number of points that you get for a shot when you make it depending where you are so so all those things are those are finite games And one of the reasons like that I originally thought of this myself I'm not trying to say I thought of the idea was

Chess I heard I think Lex Friedman maybe it was Lex but someone talking about the fact that That a computer can win in chess because it's a finite game So you there's a number moves and if you can you can get that thing to run out the the eventualities of of each move and come to the best move. And it can beat a human. Infinite games that have no rules, a computer might not be able to win

because it's not going to be able to do something that's totally unexpected. It's not going to have the creativity that's needed. Now, look, we got AI common and chat GPG and all this stuff. So it's going to, but it's going to take some sort of really revolutionary technology for a machine to beat a, human in an infinite game.

An infinite game is like life, right? There's no rules. You can move. A total war. Total war. This is a war where you're like, this is for our survival, which means we're going to do whatever it takes.

There's no rules. For as long as it takes, no rules. Street fighting for survival. Like, that's sort of an infinite game because if you grab a bottle, you can smash it on the dude's head and cut his throat.

open. If you get a chance to slam them their face down, if you have a weapon, it's sort of just, hey, whatever you got. You can bring it into the game. And so you could have a computer that's like, oh, I'm going to, the first move I would do would be a throat punch.

And then cool, I put two bullets and said, because I was carrying a gun. Like, I win. Infinite game. So finite games, and here's the thing, finite games are generally the smaller games and infinite games are the bigger ones. So what you want to win, what you want to win at is the infinite game.

And by the way, this, for me, life is an infinite game. Obviously, you can go anywhere. But more important to me is there's degrees in between finite and infinite, right? That is that most games, most games have some level of rules. And where those rules are, you can have some games are very strict, some, games are very, very, very loose. There's very limited rules. Business has rules.

Business has laws. But you can actually go and you can change and you can disrupt. Like, that's the big thing, right? When I disrupt the industry. Yeah. It's because you were playing a finite game making your widget. And all of a sudden I realized that I could make my widget that does something radically different to yours and what yours does.

And all of a sudden, you're out of business, man. Yeah. So when you can recognize. that when you can recognize what the rules are and generally figure out okay those rules apply but do I have to follow them and the same thing with like families like there's a wide there's a wide variety of ways people live as families right just take a city versus hey this family lives in a city this family lives in a farm this family lives in a van and surfs up and down the California coast they don't

have jobs they have whatever they sell break bracelets on the seaw. That's a real thing. Like there's families that that's what they do. They surf and they sell bracelets on the seawall. Right? That's a that's right. Now the other person that's playing the game is like making a bunch of money,

working at a hedge fund trying to afford a place in Malibu. So the family can surf. He can only surf every once in a while. Who won the game? Who won the game? I don't know dude. No, this guy's he doesn't just. just surf at Malibu this other dude's in a van he's going he's going to Rincon he's going up to

Santa Cruz he's coming back down to Daigo he's all over the place this other dude he's actually working most of the time yeah and by the way when he's getting an opportunity surf he's kind of at Malibu because that's where he invested all this money into a house there so who won that game well if you take the infinite game well well what was the goal was the goal to make money or was the goal to surf? So I think the important thing here is, yeah, there's infinite games and yes, there's finite games. I think the important thing is to make sure you understand what the rules are.

And if possible, figure out if there's a way that you can disrupt those rules, overcome those rules, break those rules for lack of a better work. Look, if there's a legal rule that you're going to get arrested for, you're going to lose the game. That's not what I'm talking about. But if you can figure out a way to revolutionize the way something is being done, like, you know, you always hear that story about the freaking guy that figured out a better way to do the high jump, right? Fosbury. Fosbury flop.

This guy changed the game. Yeah. Right? He didn't. He didn't, he changed. He viewed the sport and figured out a way to do that. That's within the rule, the tech. But it's way outside the the physical standards of the way the game was played

Totally different that's a good example So don't be limited by the rules see if you can see I don't know the thing is see if there's a bigger game you can play Kind of what we just talked about like oh you're a bartender or you're a A bouncer and you're the head bouncer is there a bigger game you can play? Yeah, you can you can open your own bar Okay, well, that's kind of cool. Now you're not worried about the hierarchy of the bouncers. Now you're in the next level game. But then the next level game is your new franchises.

Well, now you got a bunch of these. You see what I'm saying? So I'm always looking and you should always look for if that's what you want. Is there a bigger game that you can play? And don't get stuck in a game that you could possibly be losing. Well, you could just be playing a bigger game. Yeah, if you're trying to, you know, you're trying to be the best restaurant in the best, the best cook in your restaurant, why not just open your own restaurant?

Try to be the best electrician so you can get promoted and manage a crew. Well, why not just start your own company? That being said, what if you are an electrician, but what you really want to do is focus on your family. Cool. Then you stay working at a bigger company because no one call. You know who they call when something goes wrong and you own a business? They call you. It's your business.

I own a lot of business. Man, the calls come in 24-7. The calls come in 24-7. I realize that when we opened Victory MMA and Fitness. I was like, oh, there's something wrong at the, oh, an instructor didn't show up. Cool. I'm on my way.

You know, like, that's the way it's going. So that's the way that I think that works with the fine. So my point is I don't think it matches or contradicts. what James Kars said about finite and infinite and what what Simon Seneca he talks about it as well simonc does he talks about the finite infinite game concept but this stuff what we're saying doesn't match or contradict is just part of it it's just part of it um next question this is also from Levick mix how do you with intention periodically check your progress within the game you're playing look you got to detach you got to take a step back you've got to track what's

happening you got to write down your goals and see where you're at in order to do that you better schedule it because time slips by and next thing you know you look up and you've been in the same game for nine years and you realize you haven't been making progress so you need to schedule those reviews periodically once every quarter where am I at in the military they in a military they have a position called future operations which is someone that focuses on the future you have to put someone there because if you don't put someone focusing on the future then everyone's just focused on what's going on right now. So pay attention to that.

The same thing that we have to do with our lives. You have to become, you have to set aside time and make yourself the reviewing officer of your progress. Otherwise, you'll look up in four years and you'll realize you haven't moved and you hadn't made progress. Next one. How do you know which games are important,

and which ones you can ignore again real quick you got to okay you've got to understand what you value this is important because we talked about return an investment we talked about what you need to put in we talk about what you're gonna get out you actually have to be honest with yourself about what you value and you should probably write down what you value because if you value money or you value property or you value family or you value friends or you value free time or you value surf trips to to Baja and that's what you value.

You better write that down. Because otherwise, you might be playing a game where what you're getting rewarded with isn't something that you value. Hey, we're going to give you a promotion, a new title. I don't give a shit. Right? Hey, we're going to give you a new freaking BMW company car. I don't care.

I want a BMW company car. I want to surf or I want to do jiu-jitsu. So make sure you know, so if you want to know which games are important ones and which ones you should ignore need to figure out what you value and then run the ROI and the risk to see if you're getting what you value from this game Kobe Sab next question he says I stopped lying to myself about my past my regrets and my failures what then do I need to try to make up for lost time or is it just about mindset going forward uh well we should all should try and make up for lost time.

The problem is we can't. It's already gone. It's already gone. Well, lost time is gone. It doesn't matter. So, no, we're not going to focus on that. We are going to go forward doing as much as we possibly can. If you focus on the past and you focus on the lost time and you focus on the regrets,

you're wasting time and energy on things that don't help you and don't help you. move you forward so we're not doing that good thing you stop lying yourself good job you know you made some mistakes you made some adjustments move forward that's what we're doing next one Rui D Rha J if games are about winning what is the best way to set metrics for winning the game and how important would that be games are about winning what is the best way to set metrics for winning the game and how important would that be well look the biggest problem here that we're talking about is that people don't know that there's a game being played once you recognize that

there's a game being played then yeah you got to define what winning is gonna look like then you do that by detaching and looking at it and again going back to understanding what you actually value and once you know what you value and once you see what winning looks like then you write down the objectives of what that winning is and then you figure out what the strategy and tactics are to achieve those objectives and victory Just like land navigation one of the earlier podcast we did you have to know where you're going You have to know where you're going if you don't know where you're going you got issues and then you got to track your progress and see where you are and then see where you are in relation to Where you're trying to get to again you have to define winning

You have to set the metrics because for X winning might be getting to ski 100 days a year, getting to snowboard, sorry, bro, 100 days a year. For me,

winning might be making a ton of money. So we're doing two different things. So you have to figure out what winning is. In order to figure out that out, you have to know what you value. Next one.

This is from Zach. headly possible to address being taken advantage of by those who know the game better It's a tough lesson, but it happens often especially to young people Can you get taken advantage of by people who know that the game better a hundred percent a hundred percent that's why we're talking about this because there's nothing worse than being in a game With someone that knows the game and you don't you know or they know the game better than you Or you don't recognize that you're in a game. So when you get no fight with someone that knows Jiu-Jitsu and you don't, you get smashed,

we came home from deployment. And there was, you know, discussions and debates about what we were doing and the types of mission we were doing. And there was one particular senior officer. And I told Stoner and Lief, I said, hey, do not get into a debate with this guy. about our deployment and they were like why not and I was like because he'll beat you he'll beat you in a debate he'll beat me like I'm not gonna debate this stuff with him he he this what he does he's one of those people that goes around and would you step into the arena with someone that debates all the time you're not gonna do well

it's like when you see the college kid getting a debate with ben Shapiro and he's got 74 facts that he rattles off yeah because Because he had this argument at nine other places in the past two weeks. So they're getting in the ring with him. It's not, you know, like they're not, it doesn't end well. So that's why you have to do an honest assessment of yourself. And you have to recognize that if someone is beating you in the game and you can't contend with them, you better find an exit strategy to get out of that game.

unless you go, okay, you know, I'm going to take some hits here, but I'm going to learn. That's okay. As long as you recognize that. And you don't get taken advantage to the point where you get left, you know, left for dead. Next one's from Logan Buell, B-U-H-L. How often should you be assessing if you're winning the long game? How should you view the small games that seem meaningless that involve or impact? Look, we should be thinking strategic all the time, all the time.

We should be thinking about the long game all the time. And we should not be playing games that don't move you towards. It's a strategic goal. Does this mean don't, don't ever watch a TV show because it's not helping your strategic goal? Well, no. If you need a little downtime and the TV show helps you relax, cool, go ahead. Watch your freaking show.

But that's not a game, right? That's a break. And it's a strategic, it's a tactical break that's going to actually give you, you know, allow you to refresh your mindset and be ready for work and blah, blah, blah. Now look, if you're watching. freaking Netflix six hours a day you got issues yeah we're not doing that no so you should be thinking all the time this is very this is a really good question of course we address this question a lot think about the games that you're playing and if you're playing games that don't help your big

game your strategic game you should not be wasting time with them that's it that's it that's it all of your games that you're playing should help your long-term strategic goals. And look, if you got time and you happen to love freaking backgammon and you get some satisfaction by playing backgammon and you want to go play that literal game and you do it you know, once and two hours on Sundays with your little friends, cool. That's nothing wrong with that. That's cool. Have fun with that.

That's fine. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about your doing things you're going out Thursday, Friday, Saturday night going out looking for a girl going out looking for a dude

right and that's what you're doing Thursday, Friday you're drinking but you're in that game you're wasting money you're hurting your health and by the way if you think you're going to meet the love of your life there's better ways

than in the pub now I did happen to meet my wife so I guess there's a little except maybe we're not going to dedicate we're going to be careful about this one we're going to be careful about that one yeah we're going to be careful hey at a certain point the ROI right

okay so this is what'll happen you do you've been doing this Thursday Friday Saturday night drinking spending money year two years two years you're looking around going hold on a second here man three years you're like wait

second. I haven't made any progress. Then it's time to assess what the hell you're doing. So those tactical games that you're playing, they've got to support your long-term strategic goals. That's it. A long game.

I like the idea of like little, like you mentioned backgammon right where, which is funny. I don't know. That's a total jocco example. I don't even like, I don't even understand backgammon. Yeah. It's a weird board with like a little long triangle.

on it right yeah yeah yeah they're fun but no a lot of those best especially the old school like board games they're actually good little micro like exercises for your mind so like you know you you subscribe to dr. Luke right yeah Luke on Instagram on his thing so he he he taught man he'll put out some really good stuff little tidbits right so one of them was this thing about balance where he's like yeah just work on your balance and they think he's like on a curb or something I don't know I forget what he was doing but he was like just talking about balance physical physical balance appropriate reception just but yeah so it's like yeah if you improve that

that decreases all cause mortality oh yeah maintaining you know that that man has a lot to do with like you know your your neurotransmitters and your neurons and stuff like that and your brain I don't know above my whole thing but nonetheless he explains it real simple and it's like man you if you think about it especially those old school games like that's kind of what they do if you if that's your downtime like backgammon it's like that's kind of a Oh, because you're like running numbers in your head or something. Yeah, there's strategy.

There's bath. There's like all these little things that give your brain this good exercise, this good essentially exercise for your brain. Again, all those things. All those things are important. You know, learning new things. They say that's really important, you know, just for keeping your mind fresh. Yeah. No, if you're, if you're stressed out and you need to know, you know, the current champ of batgammon, you know, and you're following his life.

and maybe that could go into toxic, you know, the toxic zone for sure. As far as. Bro, if there's someone that's wrecked their life, like backgammon, I want to meet them. If there's someone that went too hard in baggammon. Yeah. So I think, like, in a way, it's kind of, it's a lot like surfing is, you know, when you take a break from the grind, you know, stuff that you need a break from. And then you go, like, do something like surfing, where it's obvious.

Oh, well, surfing is conducive to your life. It's not like sitting on the couch, watching reality. It's healthy. You're working on your balance. Exactly right. But playing games, searching games, are the same exact thing. Just more for your brain. What about video games?

Well, it depends on what video games. That's what they say. You can go deep. You can go deep looking into that. You'll find all kinds of benefits with certain kinds of games. What kind of games are good for you? Video games. I don't know.

I didn't go that deep, but every once in a while. You'll see little articles of like how it gets it all. That was the least depth ever. Yes, that's true. But no, you know, you can like find articles or whatever that will say, oh, benefits of playing video games. They don't have like, you know, hand, eye, this and that. And then, you know, then you find out, yes, it's certain kinds of games. And then you have all these secondary benefits as well.

Like, you know, especially the, like the shooter games that you're connected to your friends or whatever in other, like, you know, towns or whatever over the internet. You ever play that stuff? No. Yeah, I guess there's a little secondary benefits of that. Social connection. Yeah, yeah, like that. Yeah, that was weird during. COVID when kids were like the parents were saying hey don't play video games all day and

they're like but this is the only way I have friends right yeah that was the thing yeah we I don't have video game like console at my house so that wasn't happening at my house yeah because we don't have that stuff but I saw other parents were saying that to their their kids were like they were talking me about it like well they feel bad with your kids not with your kids playing video games like my kids don't play video games yeah because we don't have the thing yeah yeah but and not to say that that's ideal I'm you know not necessarily no maybe it was bad maybe I should have given them more social connection but you know come on well yeah I don't think you can send again I don't

no bro I'm not a psychologist you know this about that where I but I do think that social connection is gonna be most optimized person to person I would think that's why more so than through a screen that's why that jiu jitsu is good I think that's one of the many many many benefits of it is weird man jiu jiu jitsu is connected yeah like it's you're like you're like like connected. You ever and you're different, so I don't know, but. You're smashing someone.

And they're smashing you. Yeah. It's a radical thing. So you know when you meet someone and like you shake their hand or whatever and then let's say you're just standing somewhere, it's like, you don't know them that good. So you're kind of trying to keep your boundaries, you know, the bubble, you know, the physical, right? You're what do you call it? Personal space. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I know. But, you know, when you meet someone new, you want to respect personal space a little bit. You're more sensitive to that, I guess. you know, bro, when you roll with a guy in Jiu-Jitsu, like it kind of just dis-it. It's like they don't even, you don't even have a bubble anymore.

You don't have personal space. Even like when you're not rolling, it's funny. So like you or like the guys who I always roll with you, Greg, Noah, like these guys, like, I remember one time I was talking to Noah and I was like, I'm really close to Noah right now. It's almost like I couldn't gauge it because I'm so used to rolling with them, you know? So like the personal space is like completely gone. And I think it's in a good way.

But I guess that could depend on who you are. Yeah. Check. All right. So yes, long game all the time. Caleb Smith 5, 4, 7. How do I, how do, how do I know when it's time to quit the game? What are the symptoms of a game played that will ultimately lead to the inevitable loss of time money?

Go, goes back to what we talk about. ROI. Be honest. Honest assessments. This is the sunk cost fallacy, right? This is exactly what you brought up earlier. Okay. Okay, so again, some of these questions are a little bit repetitive, but I want to add some items to them.

This one here, if you want to know when it's time to quit the game and what are the symptoms, it can be good in some scenarios to set up triggers for action. And this is the example of this is like, you know when guys are climbing a mountain like Mount Everest or whatever? And they say, hey, if we haven't gotten to this point by 10 o'clock in the morning, we're turning around and going back. There's no we're not debating it. There's no, there's no emotion around it. 10 o'clock, if we're not here, we're turning around, we're going back down. You can do that with the game that you're going to get involved in. You can, hey, I'm going to only spend this amount of money.

I'm only going to spend this amount of time. I'm going to, at least if I'm not making this kind of return on an investment, like, hey, I'm going to start driving, you know, Uber at night. And that way I can get some more money, you know, for my down payment on my, house well then you realize that your ROI driving around your Uber is not as much you thought it was going to be hey I'm not even meeting the minimums this isn't working I'm not going to do it so figure out what the minimum required return is figure out how much time you're going to invest and put a cap on that figure out how

much money you're going to invest and put a cap on that and then you and then you have the actions in places you're going to take so when that happens that event gets triggered, hey, I'm going to, you know, invest in trying to start up this little company. If I haven't, you know, if I don't have 20 clients by the first three months, obviously there's not a market for it. And I'm going to stop. Okay, cool. And then you stick with it.

Look, if you get to 19, you're like, well, I'm close. Okay, cool. You know, you can make a little adjustment. But if you're 13, it's been three months and you thought you're going to have 20, and you've made a bunch of adjustments trying to figure out the market and you're not there. Okay. You need to walk away. So that would be the thing to set up so that you recognize the symptoms prior to.

Because otherwise, if you don't have triggers in place, that's how you end up at the top of Everest. You're out of oxygen and it's freaking dark and you're going to die. That's how you end up without any money left in your bank account and you don't have a successful business and now you've got to sell your house. This is how it happens. you don't put triggers in place and it causes problems. Next one, Chadida, or maybe it's Chaddia. What direction you go if you realize the games you are playing are unwinnable, but you don't have the ability to leave.

And if you did, you don't know the game to take on next asking for a friend. Listen, when we get into a game that's unwinnable, we don't have the ability to leave. Okay, we'll figure out an exit strategy. You can leave a game, right? You can figure out, okay, this job I've been here forever. They pay me good money, but it's absolutely awful. I'm never getting promoted and I don't want to do it anymore.

Okay. You can't leave tomorrow. You can't leave next week. You can't leave in a month, but you can over time a year, two years, three years, figure out an exit strategy and make a move. We're not doing brash moves, right? We're not making emotional decisions. decisions we're gonna take our time how to get out of this game and then also take our time

figuring out what game to play next to do a class on knitting and you're like dude this is awesome I love the way this feels to make the scarf and like I want to do sweaters and okay well go do some more of that maybe you're gonna end up selling sweaters on Etsy sure cool or you take a knitting class you like this is monotonous and nice I hate it. Okay, cool. Well, let's take some time to figure out the new game. Little iterative decisions and also multiple reconnaissance probes. There's so many opportunities out there in the world. There's so many of them and not all of them are good opportunities by the way. Some of them might seem cool, but they're a lot harder than they look like some of them are harder than they look like, but they're not that bad and you can make some good money and you can be gratified by doing it.

So do multiple reconnaissance like oh you like knitting cool try a little bit of knitting you also like making candles cool make some candles you also like pouring concrete okay Let's see what's going on with that Maybe on the weekends you start pouring a little concrete doing some little projects for people for real cheap and you realize you're good at it Maybe you realize you suck at it which is also possible So do reconnaissance of multiple opportunities that are out there then you make your decision and then you have that extra strategy to execute next one is from Renee Christine maybe you can talk about the thought process you go through in order to turn something hard into a game well yeah when I'm doing something really hard if I'm gonna find

some little achievable goals little achievable goals that lean towards a strategic victory maybe set up some rewards for me for my team and then execute on those little things. I think that mindset of like, I'm literally going to have fun with this thing that sucks goes a long way. So I don't have, that's my process. Like, oh yeah, this sucks. You know another thing is this sucks and I'm never going to let everybody know that I think it sucks.

I'm doing something horrible, but I'm never going to tell anybody. And I'm actually going to make them think I love it. to think I'm crazy I can't have fun with that that's fun for me I just turn it into a game yeah that's such a good game so um so when I swim in the pool my kids and nowadays it's kind of colder than normal okay look cold that means a lot of different things for people I understand and I am from so I understand that going into the story for you it's like under 70 so I would say it's about 55 degrees okay that's cold that's cold yeah legit cold so I jump in My daughter can stand cold like she don't care.

Yeah. Cold does not bother her. Here's the thing, my son, he don't like that. He doesn't like cold. So we'll jump in and I'll jump in first and she'll be like, is it cold? I'll be like, oh, it's so warm. Meanwhile, I'm like, bro, this one, fuck, it's cold. And I'm like, oh, it's so warm.

It's almost too warm, you know, like that kind, right? And they're like, I'll believe, and the more convincing I can be, meanwhile, I'm trying not to shiver, you know? Yeah. And it's like, it almost like physically feels warmer. For sure. You know, like, it's like the game kind of filters in the,

the bad stimulus, turns it into like, like a difference to me like brother that's a good one right there to act like oh this isn't even a fat like what I didn't even notice they would say false motivation is better than no motivation because it's kind of true right it's absolutely true there's a girl a lady named jane mcgonical she talks about gamification it's an actual process where you take hard stuff you turn them into little games and you get through them like you know you thrive whatever and she did it because she had a illness i forget the illness and she was like hey i'm gonna turn this whole thing this is my whole recovery which was super arduous process I'm gonna turn this recovery process into a series of games and that's how she started on the path of like understanding gamification

But there's an actual process to it and it's like apparently it's super super effective Let's do one more and then we're we'll go and do another one because I got a bunch more of these things to cover But let's do one more this is kind of a little bit of a chunky one this is from Santos Carlos the third when solid honorable hardworking men refuse to play the game because quote there shouldn't be a game how to navigate the dichotomy and dogma around progression as tenure versus progression through experience this is a little bit tricky of a of a question to understand but I'm going to do my best with it and there's he says context some of the

most knowledgeable talented and experienced people I've worked with were both years and decades younger in tenure however they spent so much time consistently exposing themselves to challenging problems they progressed well beyond the 99 percentile anyone their age so that's the that's the dogma around progression is tenure versus progression through experience. So it's time versus it's really about effort because experience is sort of wrapped around time. So to answer that, people that engage and train and practice and challenge themselves will get better than people that don't. And so there's a dogma. He's like the dogma around that.

And I think what he's trying to ask is like the negative. the negative impression of people that work really hard, don't have much time, but they're excelling. That's what I'm getting from this question. I hope I've got it. The reason that that sometimes hurts people that are, like let's say echo checked on board, he hasn't been here for very long,

but he's really kind of kicking ass, and yet I kind of hold it against him. Why is that? There's a decent chance that echoed, Echo has the he's exposing himself. He's training hard. He's putting himself in challenging position so he's learning a lot and he's doing really well But echo doesn't have the maturity and tact to remain humble So you end up creating an antagonistic relationship with me because I'm looking at you like all these just one of these people that's tried so hard And I'm gonna look for every little opportunity to hurt your progress

So if you want to overcome the way that works Or you want to help someone, you know, you get some new guy on your team that checks in that is really doing a good job, but it's rubbing people the wrong way. Just talk to him about staying humble. And it's talking about the importance of building good relationships. And that will be helpful. So I hope that answers the first question. Again, these are a little bit, a little bit, I didn't quite fully understand them. The second question is an observation more than a question, but it's interesting.

Interesting how many miss the opportunity of chasing forward looking asymmetrical opportunities, opportunities with limited risk, but potential huge upsides and a relative solid likelihood of success. Why is that? So why do people miss opportunities that have low risk? And I think there's a couple reasons. Number one is failure to recognize. Like they just don't see them because they don't detach. And so the opportunities right in front of them, they don't see it.

You know, that's the old experiment where the freaking gorilla goes walking through the people that are throwing the basketball and like no one sees it. Because they're in, they're watching the count in the numbers and they don't see this obvious thing. So there's a failure to recognize because people don't detach enough. And then on top of that, sometimes they see the opportunity, but they don't want to, even a limited risk, they don't want to take. Even a small risk with a big reward, they don't want to take it. We see that all the time. Humans don't like Humans tend to not want to take action

and humans tend not to want to take risk. Not all humans. Let me rephrase it. There are many humans that don't like to take action and there are many humans that don't like to take risk. And so when they're presented an opportunity but they're going to have to do something a little bit different and they're going to have to take risk,

they're just like, I'm always keeping doing what I'm doing. So I think that is why that. happens. So there you go Santos. I hope I was able to kind of get those for you. And with that, it's a game for this time. I guess we're going to have to do one more podcast about the game. The game, the games. Here we are in the meantime. If you want to play the health game, the fitness game, the being better game, the stronger, faster, better game, better get the JoccoFuel game. JoccoFuel.com. We got Mokke, which is we got R. Ready to drink milk right now, which is fire.

Different level. Yeah, fire. Slaps big time. Oh, it slaps big time. You open your fridge, maybe you could, you know, have a piece of steak. Maybe you could have some, uh, mozzarella. Sure. Right?

Hell yeah. Mozilla. Mozilla with the virgin olive oil on it. Oh, what? Those little things. Yeah, yeah. Put a little basil on it. Yeah.

That's the kind of like thing. Sarah made those the other day. It's good. Like two days in a row. Yeah, those are good. But. There's a look I'm gonna put myself on report for being lazy

Yes sir But there's like you know you're cutting basil leaves whatever You're getting the oil out you're making a plate That mulk is just sitting there ready Yeah 30 grams of protein Ready to go down the hatch taste he tastes better than mozzarella Yeah I mean this is a given So we got the ready to drink milk

We got the powder milk we got joint warfare Super krill Cold War got it all And we're got the energy drinks yeah we got the energy drinks so the but these aren't the normal energy drinks that make you sick and make you diabetic and are poison no these are not those in the store are these in the health department bro this is a good point the you when you go into a store when you go to vitamin shop well vitamin shop they're there and pretty easy to find

but when you go into like a military commiss or you're going to hanaford you go into hibb or murfies or Meyer in some of these stores they're in like the health and wellness section they're not in the energy drink section so just be advised yeah that's kind of interesting right what's the conundrum right from a store standpoint or from a what do you call customer standpoint well from a customer standpoint they're like oh well this energy drink will put over in the energy drink section because it's it's all these are the same right but we also have a health and wellness things that make you better yeah and we know where this belongs yeah it's so they're kind of right they're right either way they're right but it would be nice if they could give the

consumer the visibility on like oh I have a healthy option that I can go to here yeah well I guess it kind of depends right well ideally both but you know then logistically right kind of kind of but yes look if I go in I don't know I don't know about the goes yet I go in I just want an energy drink you know I want the sugar free I'm just going to go you know I go and then I see the new go sugar free all the good stuff it's good for you it's like bro I'm choosing now I'm all day. All day. Energy drink.

But at the same time, if I'm like, bro, I'm, I'm not down for energy drinks. I'm down for the healthy one. Healthy stuff, the kombucha or whatever. I don't know. What are the healthy things? But anyway, and then they're going to see that. Boom, they're going to grab that one as well. See what I'm saying?

So they got to be there. Yeah, the hard thing is, is like, you get into this business. All that shelf space is like accounted for. It means something. It's like every little slot that they have in any of these stores has. value there's a value that slot so they're like hey love we can't put you in both the way you want the whole so you want this be what a one we put it in the meat section too yeah you know what I was saying oh we put in the produce yeah it's yeah it's so it should be in

the produce section yeah kind of kind of so I'm looking for orange juice right but the stuff uh what we got the freshly squeezed that's what I'm looking for if you go in the juice section the ones with the pulp I don't my wife does I don't But you go in the juice section. There's three juice sections, by the way, in the supermarket. Huh. Yeah. You don't know that because you don't want to smoke.

No, I don't. But so you go in the juice section with a grit, like in the refrigerator-ish section. So there's your, what do you call? I don't know, I forget the brands offhand, but welches. There's some welches in there. Tropicana? Tropicana. Yeah.

Simply orange, simply grapefruit, all these juices, right? There's that section. It's a refrigerator. Or you can go to the cranberry juice, the cranberry juice, the cran grate. the cram, cran apple, the lemon juice, that's in a whole,

that's in the aisle. It's a different section. And then if you want the freshly squeezed. Oh, you're over in like the organic area. Yeah, like,

it's like in the fruit and vegetable section, kind of. It's weird, right? So it's like, it's kind of one of those things. You kind of got to know what you're there for

and know who you're providing for at the same time. And we got to do a better job of letting you know to take a look around, maybe ask the clerk, the stock person. Ask somebody,

say, hey, where's this, where's the, where's the go at? Where's the Jaco Fuel at? So there you go. You can get it at joccofuel.com.

You can get a wah-wah. You can get all these places. You know you can get it. Go get it. Make yourself better. OriginUSA.com. Geese, boots,

jeans, rash guards, all made in America. Not made by slaves. There's actual slavery in the world right now. It's happening. Literally.

Literally. So Pete, our boy Pete, was on Andy Frissella, Real A-F, the podcast. Really good. That was a good podcast, by the way. He put it a really good way. I don't think I've ever heard this before.

He was like, hey, yeah, you know, like America, yeah, we ended slavery. But slavery didn't end. We just shipped it offshore. Is it what I'm saying? So, like, we're letting the out-of-country slaves do a lot of the work now. I'm like, dang, when you think about it, brother, it's true. Oh, it's 100% true. Damn.

It's 100% true. We don't want that. Yeah. We don't want that. OriginUSA.com and slavery. That's what we're doing. Get on board. Jeans, boots, hunt gear.

The hunt gear, let's face it. You can't not wear that hunt gear. Every time I see your dumb ass. Yeah, we're just wearing it. Yeah, that's what we're doing. The hunk gear, so check that out also. Apparently I have a store. It's called Jocco store.

Check. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's when you want to represent this whole path, the source. That's what it's called now, the source. Interesting. Yeah, discipline equals freedom, you know, good. All these things, they represent certain mindset, I guess you could say. I don't know, check it out, Jocco store.

That's where you can get some. So we have a shirt locker as well, subscription service, different designs, a little bit funner from time to time. Sometimes they're darker. But it's a new design every month. A little bit more emotional, one direction to the other, apparently. Yeah, from time. Yeah, we switch it up for sure. Do you feel good when you nail it?

Sure. And you get the good feedback. Even for me when I go, yep. That's a good one. The answer is yes. I do like that a lot. For sure. Jocco store.com.

Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. Don't forget about jocco underground.com. There's censorship. There's control of the platforms. There's drama out there. We're not in the drama. Look, we're doing our job. But if somebody wants to ban us, they could do it.

Tomorrow we don't control their platforms, but we control ours. at jocco underground.com. If you want to go check that out, you can listen to this podcast, some other podcasts that we do on there. It costs $8.18 a month. If you can't afford it, it's okay.

We still want you in the game. Email assistance at jocco underground.com. We got a YouTube channel. Origin USA has a YouTube channel. We've got psychological warfare. Flipside canvas. Got a bunch of books. You know what they are.

Eschalam front. It's our leadership consultancy. And don't forget that we have online training. We have online leadership training, online life training, Extreme Ownership Academy, take ownership of your life. Go to Extreme Ownership.com. I'm on there Mondays doing live Q&A.

You want to ask me a question about your business, about your life, about Jiu-Jitsu, about your boss, about your employee, about your husband, your wife. Come and ask me. Extreme Ownership.com. There you go. There's a bunch of courses to take as well. And also, if you want to help service members active and retired,

you want to help their families, Gold Star families. Check out Mark Lee's mom, Mama Lee. She's got a charity organization, which is awesome. And if you want to donate her, you want to get involved, go to America's mighty warriors.org. And don't forget about another.org, heroes and horses. Micah Fink up there. Where is he right now?

Oh, he's horseback in the mountains, in the wilderness, with some veterans helping find their souls. So go to heroes and horses.org if you want to help that out. We're on the inner webs. Echoes at Echo Charles. he's back on Twitter after he freaking made a rookie mistake it was a hard time for everybody

yeah rookie mistake yeah for a computer guy yeah brutal it can happen to anybody I guess even the strongest have their moments of fatigue and you just got mentally distracted it's a metaphor but is that what happened that was fatigued you were tired

legit hey man the best of us get caught slipping would you rather admit would you rather admit admit being tired or dumb? I don't know. All right. Well, Echo Charles is back on Twitter.

He feels like maybe he's lost some of his clout in the social media world because he has 19 followers now. I'm at Jockle. Hey, listen, when you go on there, just watch out for the algorithm. That's not a game that's going to help you. That's not a game that's going to help you. The algorithm game is going to win. Don't let it. And thanks to all the military members out there worldwide, protecting our way of life.

Thank you for your continued service. And thanks also to our police and law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service, all first responders. Thank you for protecting us here at home. And to everyone else out there, remember, there's a lot of games being played. You are playing them. So pick the right games to focus on. Don't waste time on games that don't matter and when it comes to the games that do matter Play to win.

Until next time, Zekko and Jock out