Jocko Podcast - 372: Figure Out The Framework, The Rules, and The Objectives... Then Play THE GAME

Episode Date: February 8, 2023

The final episode of the "Life is a Game" series. The framework, the rules, the objectives. Answering more questions. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 372 with Echo Charles and me, Jocco Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. The fourth and final episode for now about the game. If you haven't listened to 369, 370, 371, go listen to those first. We're going to jump right into the remaining questions, feedback that we got off the first podcast that we did about this. So here we go. Talking about the game.

Question comes from Corey. There's a couple questions, actually. Can someone be so far along in a game, career relationship, for example, that it is not worth it to switch games in terms of return on investment? Love my career choice, but I've seen others who hate their job, but often stick it out to retirement. Yeah. That does.

That does happen. This is the sunk cost fallacy we talked about on one of the earlier on You've been doing that job for a long time, but here and and you've also got to remember that sometimes the sunk cost isn't a fallacy Like sometimes you've put you know guys in the military right to classic example You're in a military you've been in for eight years and you decide to get out. Okay, you know you're getting out you've invested some time You've gained some skills you're gonna get out ten years. You're like okay Still ten years you're you're you're you're you're You're still pretty young.

You're 28 years old. You can figure out another career. You haven't invested that much into it. And you've gotten some return on that investment already in terms of experience. Usually around 12 years is where people start saying, hmm, you put a lot in there. You put 12 years into this. You know your job well. So between 12, 13, 14 years, well, 13, between 12, 13 years, it definitely seems strange.

there's something going on that you really have to think about the decision 15 to 18 years is probably a bad move like if you put 15 or 18 years into the military and now you're going to get out you better have something awesome lined up you better or be in some terrible situation

that you absolutely despise because you're giving up a lot you're giving up the rest of your money for the rest of your life and you've already worked I mean look that's what makes it weird right If you've done a job for 15 years or 16 years, now you decide that you don't like it anymore.

Brough, that's why we got to do these assessments that are often and early, right? I see, yeah. And then you get people occasionally get out 18 years, 19 years, and you're like, that's not a, we don't think that's a good move. Because you can suck it up for another year and get paid for the rest of your life.

Even if you hate it for that last year. You're like, okay, cool. Start working on your exit strategy, and you'll figure it out. Um, then the military is a distinct sort of example because there is like that 20 year mark where you're going to get your retirement. You're going to get benefits after that. Uh, you know, all that being said, a lot of careers take a lot more than 20 years to get, you know, retirement out of it. So if you, if you absolutely hate your job, it's probably, you were thinking exit strategy.

How can you set something up to move on? So yes. that that can happen yes can you be so far along in a game that it's not worth the switch games yes but it can happen where you still need to make a decision that you need to move on so

it's just a tough choice yeah if there's a payoff at the end like a retirement scenario that's different than sunk cost fallacy like I said because sunk cost is kind of like hey I've just in it's like it's like it's It's driven mainly by the time, the investment in your head that you put into getting where you are.

Yeah. So it seems like, oh, yeah, I put this much into it. If I just quit and do something else, all that time was for nothing. That's what it is. But if you have a, like a retirement, like I said, or some light at the end of the time. All I got to do is stick it out for this much more. And then I get a very big benefit there. That's different because it's like you're not, it's not driven by your past investment.

It's driven by, okay, let me just like basically suck it up or try to handle it. It'll make the best of this until I get that one payoff. Yeah. So yeah, like, and yeah, that's weird. Because I know people, I know literally like friends of the family that are, that are in this conundrum. Because anytime, you know, like police have this, military, um, teachers have this, like where they have a retirement waiting for them. Yeah.

The thing, the big difference between military and police, police is also a little bit. Military is like 20 years. At 20 years, you're going to get a retirement. So if you enlisted when you're 18, like I did, you're 38, bro. I mean, you're, but most or a lot of jobs are you have to work until you're maybe 30 years. And also sometimes it's to work till 65. So if you got to work until you and you, a lot of those jobs, you have to graduate from college. So you're 22 when you get the job.

Now you work for 30 years in that job. You're 52. Yeah. That next career is not like jumping up and down at you, you know? People are looking at you like, well, do you really want to do this? And how to, how much do we want to invest in? you and you're 52 years old, how much longer are you going to work for? Yeah.

And you are also like, hey, I've been working for 30 freaking years. Now I've got to go do some other. So that's why I think. And now, now this dynamic has changed a lot in recent years. I mean, people change jobs a lot more than they used to. You know, when I was younger, the friends of my parents, they all had the same freaking job. They didn't sit their entire, like, lives.

They all got a job and then they stayed in that job. You know, whether it was working at a construction company, both my parents were school teachers. They were school teachers the whole time. 30 years. My dad worked at a school for 30 years. You know what I mean? Like that's it.

That's his job. My mom worked at a school for 20 years. Then she became a principal and a vice principal and all that. What grade did your dad teach? High school. High school. Yeah. But like I'm thinking of the friends of my parents.

They all basically had a job. One job. It's not like today where people are, oh, I worked this there for three years and there for two, more years and I did 18 months at this place people move around a lot more so there's probably less of this unless you happen to get in one of these jobs like you said but teachers are like that you know we're out here in California teachers I think teachers got to work for until there's 65 out here maybe or

maybe 30 years but it's you know you work for 20 years in a school you look up you're like 10 more years of this if you start to not like it and you've got 10 more years You're sort of like, hmm. Yeah. But you're also, like you said, there's a carrot at the end of it. Yeah. Plus 10 more years, that's 10 more. You've got 10 more summers off, right?

They like that job. They like that job because the summers are off. Not all bad, yeah. But I do look at it. Look, you get one shot. You get one trip through life. And if you're freaking totally miserable, then you start to look around it.

Like maybe you've been teaching for 20 years and you really don't like it anymore. Okay, well, instead of just, saying I quit no you start saying well what else could I do what other options do I have what kind of business could I start on the side during the summer you know maybe I start my crocheting business and I'm making what are they like hot pads to hold the whole the freaking dishes right we call them things oven mitts oven mitts yeah you start making oven mitts and maybe you turn that into a business yeah cool then you can leave your job but let's not do anything rash you

You might have to play the game for a while and decide what you're going to do. But we don't want to be on our deathbed thinking, yeah, that's what we don't want. We also don't want to be in the gutter, homeless, saying, you know, freaking jocco said, I should fall, chase my dream. You can chase you. Look, if you have a dream like that, it's strong enough to, that you can do it on the side to the side hustle, right? The side hustle.

The thing about the side hustle is the side hustle is not easy. That's what people think the side hustle. It sounds like something you're just doing on the side, but it's actually, if you're doing it right, it's taking as much time as your full-time job is just that you have to do it in addition to. Don't think the side hustle is something that you do on the side. It's something that you do in addition to

with the same amount of effort in most cases. But you can turn the side hustle into something real. If you put the effort into it, not going to be easy. All right. Question number two from Corey. You mentioned how we can exist in our own little worlds with titles and status. But when we step outside those worlds,

we aren't held in such high regard or recognized for those roles anymore. Obviously, it can be a difficult transition to a different career or lifestyle and feel as if the work you previously put in may be invalidated due to lack of recognition. While in the military, did you have any idea of what possible career path

you would have afterwards? Well, the answer is no. I didn't. I thought I would be teaching Jiu-Too. I thought I'd be surfing and hanging out with my family and then opportunities opened up. I did my first like quote unquote leadership talk about six months before I retired and and it grew from there leadership talks to book to podcasts to products to companies. It wasn't really pre-planned but I think you know I think one of the challenges that you can have here is when I got out

I didn't say to my I didn't say to the world I served 20 years I was a leader You should all respect what I have to say and you should listen to me and I don't have to pay my dues and I deserve X Y Z I didn't say that I was like oh damn I'm a civilian now Laif and I always joke about we did all kinds of leadership talks for nothing for free Go and talk go travel somewhere they might give you the the travel Pay to go and talk to a company for four hours in the middle of nowhere. I talked to him about leadership Do it for free. I wasn't like that's below me. Look, I've been in the I was in the shield teams Oh was an officer in the seal teams therefore I was in the military you home I'm not doing that no it's like be humble is basically what I'm getting at

Be humble and and if you that that part that makes it a different is what he calls a difficult transition to a entirely different career and If you try and think that you're going to deserve the respect, that's where you're going to run into problems. It's like, it's not going to be there. And look, the military, you actually do get like, in some cases, people do give you respect. Oh, you were in the military. You have discipline. You've been in leadership positions. A lot of times that kind of nice greeting that you get,

Isn't real. It's a little bit of lip service and well, it's not just lip. Let me rephrase that they look at it. They're like oh echo you're in the military. That's great. You've been in leadership positions. You've been you're disciplined. You've been training people. That's awesome. They mean it, but they're not ready to turn over a freaking department to you because they're like that's great. We're not we're building widgets over here. We're not we're not in machine gun fights. So even though they mean it, but they don't mean it. They have the respect, but they're not willing to bet on that. And so you got to earn it, man. You got to earn it. And that's one of the problems that vets run into is they think, like, I used to be in charge of, you know, a thousand guys in a battalion. I had 700 guys into my battalion,

and I had however many millions and millions of dollars worth of gear. You know, I was in charge of a billion dollar Navy ship. Okay. But, wow, that's awesome. I really respect the fact that you had a, you were in charge of a billion dollar. worship a billion dollar worship was completely under your command and that's awesome I really they do respect it but they're not going to give you command of this freaking

department over here that has a annual budget of 1.6 million dollars yeah so be ready for that yeah stay humble is what we what we're talking about you got to stay humble and you got to earn it you know you got to earn that respect and if you did a good job when you were commanding that worship or you were commanding that battalion or you're commanding that that platoon okay You should be able to quickly adapt to this new endeavor and do a good job from a leadership perspective and move up the chain of command It's like it's like that so there you go That's my answer to Corey next up we got David

Play to win but the game is a zero sum event why? Because we all die and take nothing with us to the next next life except our souls Fair enough You know zero sum the technical definition is one person wins in order for one person to win someone else has to lose that's what it is and I don't really think life is like that I don't think it's a zero-sum game I think I can actually play a good game and I can win and I actually think my wins can benefit other people so I'm not sure I really agree with David I don't think it's a zero-sum I think you can do a

good job and you can win and I think one of the best things that you can do as a person is as you win take other people along with you like hey I got a winning team over here going Come with me. You know, hook a carabiner into my vehicle here and we're going to roll. We're going to keep rolling. Come on. Come along. I got room.

You know, let's do this. So I think you can leave before. I think you can go through this life and die and actually, actually leave something very positive with other people that you've encountered in your life and you've helped along the path. Help them play the game. Bring them onto your team. Look, if you're good at playing the game, get some other people in the game with you. This is a beautiful thing.

That's what I think, David. Yeah, I don't know. What do they call that nihilism, right? Yeah. We all die or whatever, but it's kind of like. It's exhausting, as I say in the big Lobowski. Don't you kind of feel like life is kind of like this big balancing act where it's like, hey, you got some time to make things happen? And then when you're done, you've got to pass it on to someone else.

and they better make things happen because everyone's time's going to eventually run out kind of a thing. So that's why like when you have kids or whatever, you want to pass knowledge, you want to pass values, you want to pass all this stuff back to them. But they're going to die anyway, right?

Okay, that's why it's their job to pass that same stuff and then their additions to it to other people. It doesn't have to be kids. I was going to say, that's what I was going to say. It doesn't just have to be your kids. Like you got a group of people.

If you're doing well, cool. Grab some people and bring them with you. Like that to me is a super positive thing that you can do. And if you and here's here's where I think Again when you start looking at the strategic game Like the game the overarching game of life

And you're on your deathbed I don't think there's anyone that will regret Helping other people out Giving people a better future with their own kids With the people that they affected in their live The people they impact with I think that's as good as it's gonna get You live the good You don't say oh that guy lived

lived a good life because he made a bunch of money and was selfish and kept it all to himself. No one says that. Yeah. No, they say, man, look at what this guy did with the people that he influenced and impacted and was, you know, whether they made money or not, oh, you know, the coach in school that helped everyone and pointed him in the right direction and like all those people have a huge impact. That is how you win the game. Yeah.

The more people you help. Yeah, because that game, I mean, technique in a way, the game never really. end until everybody dies. So you're it's a it's kind of like you know the you know the if you think of a chain maybe not a chain but just think about like how generations like progress right go on and on this guy dies their sons daughters people whatever they grow up they die but they pass it on you know in that chain of knowledge progress everything that gets passed through time or whatever it's kind of like you want to evaluate what was my role in that you know so if

you're just a selfish person you have you literally have no role in it If you're just selfish, no matter how rich, no matter how much weights you lift, no matter how much Jiu-Jitsu you did, if you're just doing it, even though Jiu-Jitsu, you have a lot of training partners. So that's in and of itself beneficial. But check it out. If you're a jihitsu guy and what you do is you come and train and you get better and you win competitions and you're the champion.

But you didn't really, you never coach anybody. You never helped anybody. Yeah. Who does everybody love? They love Henzzo. Yeah. Who's a Hensel got, you know, sure, Hensos got a great competition. in MMA and Jiu Jitsu,

but he spread the word. He helped as many people as he can. You know, everyone, and that's when you think about, like, what you want to do, well, help more people, train more people,

coach John Donaheher, right? What's he doing? He's really helping out a lot of people get better at Jiu-Jitsu. It has nothing to, you know if he's competed, before? Yeah, back in the day,

and actually, a lot of martial arts, from what I understand. But how about the Jiu-Zzer? A lot of, I don't know. So, that's before me time. But he's having a huge impact.

Yeah, and, you know, Gordon Ryan and his team is all like, oh, yeah, we, like Gordon Ryan said, I'm not competing if, if John's not coaching me. Yeah. Which is kind of a crazy thing to say, right? Yeah. But that's how much respect he has and how appreciative he is of John Donaheur. John Donahorse invested his life into these other guys on his team. Yep. That's what's made him, that's what's made him, uh, uh, uh, an icon of the sport.

Not because he's a champion himself, but because he's taking and passed it on. Right. Now, at some point, hopefully Gordon Ryan says, oh, I've done what I can do in the competition. Now I'm going to go and I'm going to help as many people get better at Jiu-Jitsu. He's already doing that, by the way. A lot of us, you know, like in Jiu-Jitsu or whatever, know that that's kind of part of the natural Jiu-Jitsu progression. And especially now that you can like sell your techniques and, you know, have a career of the, of passing on your techniques or whatever. that's like part of it.

And sure, of course, you get paid for it and everything. But think about the in the big picture where now all this knowledge came from, let's say it came from whoever, you know, even starting at the beginning with the graces or whatever, coming all the way down. Then Dean Lister had his thing who affected John Donaheur. And they're like, hey, let's pass it on. Passing Gordon Ryan.

Gordon Ryan influences people with his performances and his not, he's spreading the same knowledge to other people. BJJ Fanatics.com. I think so. Yeah, fully. And so now when you look at the, the big picture that chain, like let's say you can grab any individual, take Gordon Ryan, right? What role did he play in this proliferation of this new knowledge, improvement of the whole

jiu jihitsu community? What role did he play? Huge role, huge role. But yeah, you're right. If he just competed and kept it and just like every one of his actions was solely to benefit himself and not to like the zero sum game, like for me to benefit, no one else can benefit. So no one else benefited from his knowledge, whatever. then you ask that same question.

Then you'd be like, I don't know. But the correlation is perfect for life. Yes. Because if you take someone, like in the SEAL teams, if you had someone that was quote, a great operator in the SEAL teams, everyone that's known as a great operator, they took their skill.

Like there's somebody, oh yeah, that guy was a great this, great that at this individual skill. But someone that took that individual skill and then they taught it to as many people as they can, that person gets sort of elevated in people's minds. in the business world. Okay, cool. You were successful in business,

but if you were successful in business and you didn't help share and start other businesses to help people grow, then people don't really appreciate what you're doing. So this is, you know,

this is one of those questions that I got asked at one of the Jockal Live events a few years ago. That was 2020. Actually, I will always remember because it was right before COVID kicked in.

But you know, it's like, oh, what do you, what's the meaning of life? Like the basic question. It's like, oh, help other people out. And this is what it boils down to. So when you're playing the game, you need to put into your calculus at some point, what you need to do is help other people.

Because if you're not helping other people and you're keeping it for yourself, you're going to lose the game in the end. Yeah. You're going to lose the game. Yeah. So put that into your schedule that when you get the opportunity to help someone out, you can help them out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So that, yeah, the old. And I know they probably mean it. to mean more than just this, but how it can come off when they're like, hey, you can't take it all with you, right? True. That's like, bro, that goes beyond, like, the intention even of having it.

And if that is the intention, like, that's like a bad, a bad intention just to think in that way, where it's like, yeah, because the whole, the whole reason of, like, that's not the whole reason of life, but part of, like, the massive reason of life is to get what you can, learn what you can,

everything. And then it's like if you had a blender, right? Here's the thing. You've got a blender. You're blending smoothies. You're blending molding milkshakes. You're blending like all this stuff. And this blender is freaking awesome.

And you're, you know, maybe you're making stuff for your kids, your neighbors or whatever. But you're going to die now. Take that blender. You say, hey, you, young kid, you get this blender now. Here's all the recipes. I'm done. You take it from here kind of a thing. And I'm done.

I die. They do the same thing. So now that blender, it's like, oh, yeah. If I took that blender with me to the grave, it's kind of like that blender doesn't help nobody. But now you pass it on until they die. They pass it. And that blender keeps on blending. You see what I'm saying?

And hopefully you're teaching people how to build a blender and then they can give away four blenders. So when you die, you don't just have one, you give it to four people. Now you're talking like, yeah, big time stuff. You know, and there's levels to it. You know, not everyone's gonna do all that, but as far as the, you know, the essence of it all,

you know, yeah, you don't take it with you, you pass it on to the next guy. Pass it on, man. And man, you gotta be a, you gotta be a real kind of sad person when you're trying to hoard that information. Yeah. You're trying to keep it all.

Yeah. And real, that's going to hurt you. Yeah. It's going to hurt you. It kind of goes for everything when you think about it. And obviously this isn't a like super cut and dry, but like when you're one of those people who don't want to share info, you don't want to,

you don't want to share, even like people who hoard like resources, you know, just to hoard it, just to have it all, you know? And I don't, it's like just that way of being. It's kind of like, ooh, doesn't that? It kind of goes against the whole thing. Yep, and there's got to be a way to work through that. You know, if you grow up where you're living in life of scarcity,

when whatever it is, whether it's knowledge or, you know, you had to fight and scrap that figured out and you finally figured out, or you had to fight and scrap to make money and you finally got money or you had to fight and scrap to get skill and now you finally got skill, that would happen with Jiu-Jitsu, right? The Jiu-Jitsu person that like came up and had to figure it out and got treated like crap by his instructor. That person, there's a decent chance that that person now treats other people like

crap and doesn't share anything and doesn't show how you did that arm lock. There's also a decent chance to go, I'm not going to be like that guy. Yeah. So, and that's the same thing with business. It's the same thing with life. Like you had to, man, I had to freaking earn it. And therefore, echo, I'm not going to show you my little tricks of the trade. I'm not going to show you this the way I did this marketing campaign because you got to figure it on.

But if I go, hey, you know, it was hard for me. I'm actually going to hook out. echo up yeah that's what we're doing that's how you win the game all right next question from Walter how do you think Sun Su viewed the game in parentheses long game and played it and how's that different from the way you slash replayed I you know I think that he was I mean obviously a strategic thinker so yes he was thinking about the long game he saw the game and he made basic much I hate using the word basic I actually changed when we would teach in land

warfare we had like something like basic basic maneuvers and I changed it to fundamental because people think basic is not good but they actually think fundamental is good yeah so he Sun Tsu pointed out fundamental theories of the game and principles of the game that you know well you got to understand yourself you've got to understand your opponent you've got to retreat when you need to retreat you've got to re-attack when you're able to don't attack this enemy strong points like all these things he understood the game and I think there's just alignment I don't think there's any major you in major outliers that he had some big different thought it's all universal

if you know the way Broadway broadly you see it in all things Michael Michael asks is the game the path or is the journey as we venture or is it the journey as we venture down the path I as much as my kind of instinct was like yes you know kind of like wanting to get but I would say actually not really because there's a lot of different games being played I think that's the main thing like there's a lot of different games being played you're playing a game at work you're playing a game with your relationships you're playing a game with your health you're playing a game like all there's just all this ain't

a bunch of it and then you got the big overarching game of life now I you know When I think of the path, you know, capital T, capital P, right? True. This to me is the focus on ourselves of getting better, right? Getting better. Health, stronger, faster, smarter, creating stability, taking responsibility. To me, those things in life are the path doing, the path is doing the right thing. for the right reasons, right?

To make sure that you are doing the right things. And I would say that doing the right thing, one of doing the right things is helping other people is trying to teach, trying to pass on what you've learned. So I guess you could stretch it a little bit. But now, you know, when I, but that being said, generally when I refer to the path, I'm talking about the path of discipline equals freedom.

The path of having discipline in your life to do the right things do what you're supposed to do and move forward Be better be faster be stronger here's the thing unless you or unless you Unless you do that for yourself you're gonna have a lot harder time helping other people if your life is falling apart It's gonna be hard for you to help other people out So I don't really equate the game as the path I don't really think of the same thing. Yeah, it doesn't feel like it. I feel like the path is like this dynamic framework that you can kind of follow

and utilize to put yourself in a position to perform better in the game. Right. Oh, yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah, and that's one of those things too is like, sure. There's sort of a universal path that we can all kind of nod our heads and say, yeah, but your path might be a little bit different than mine. Yeah. So there you go.

There's my answer. Yeah. As you kind of like there are some fundamentals in the past. There's like, you know, there's just a handful of them though. You know, the health thing, but health can look different. So if you just keep going a little bit more advanced on the health part of it, then that can look different for a lot of people. But the health thing is a factor.

And you know, the relationship, the learning, the education part of it and all this stuff. The discipline part of it, just that idea of discipline. This one's going to look different for everybody. But the fact that you can be like, hey, I'm going to do what's right now so I can have that pay off later in many ways. That's really, you know, the dynamics of discipline. It's the path of discipline. Ultimately, the path is the path of discipline and where it leads is to freedom. That's what the path is.

The path is the path of discipline and where it leads is to freedom. And that applies to everything that is going on in your life. health, fitness, business, finances, relationships. It's all, all of those to reach a point of freedom in any category, you have to be on the path of discipline. So there you go. Next up, Forrest, is it better to play this game solo multiplayer? Or does that matter season to season?

Cool. There's some games that are solo. There's some games that are multiplayer. There's some games that are played against other people. There's some games that you play against yourself. So, again, the whole reason for this series of podcasts was for people to gain the perspective that what you're doing in life, in many different aspects of life, can be looked at as a game. And the failure to look at it as a game means you're not exactly sure what the rules are.

You're not exactly sure how to advance. You're not exactly sure what the goals are. And without goals and without knowing how to advance and without knowing what the parameters are, not knowing what the rules are, it's hard to, it's hard to know what's happening. So this idea of looking at a relationship, looking at a job, looking at an education, looking at your college class, looking at life, looking at real estate, looking at any of these things as a game, gives you a professional. perspective to move and do better in that arena, whatever that arena is. So some of them are solo. You know, fitness is kind of a solo thing. Now, can you play it as a team?

Yeah, you can get a couple more people that want to work out with you that want to train with you that are going to help you. You know, have you ever echo Charles had a work? Have you ever had like a legit workout partner? Yes. Almost. Yeah. I mean, aside from most, I would say most of my life, but I'm trying to think now I've been working out alone. But yes.

100%. And who would you more easily let down and not show up for the workout? Your workout partner or yourself? Okay. My workout part. The short answer is I would let down myself 1,000 million percent. And I would never, in fact, I don't even know if I ever had. I mean, unless I was sick. So I mentioned my, okay, so one of my main workout partners in life was a guy named Squatty Lewis.

Scotty Lewis, aka police, he's a policeman in the big island. Right. You're not getting the nickname Squatty for no reason. For no reason. Exactly, right. So then we had another guy named Rinda Brooks. It was three of us. So Rinda Brooks could bench more.

Squatty Lewis could squawk more than everybody. And then I was more than more balanced guy who was like, you know, we're all pretty close. But, oh, about 100%. So I would even say the multiplayer scenario is if you can pull that off, you want to do that more often than not. If you can pull it off. Totally.

And even with that, like you got to kind of choose the right people. because you get, you know, things can arise that might work against you sometimes. But I'm saying if you can pull it off, multiplayer and fitness, that's a good one, right? Where it makes it not only more enjoyable, the hard parts, it makes it more enjoyable, but yes, you're way more accountable.

There's like so many dynamics that are there with multi-player with more people than it is by yourself. In fact, you can find yourself, and actually this might even be a skill to develop, but if you're not looking at it that way, you'll have additional strength. struggles by yourself like additional challenges that you might not need you know if you're trying to reach a certain goal but with like other people if you guys are on the same page it you can

just blow through stuff yeah having that team aspect so maybe to amend my initial answer it's like yeah there's solo games there's multiplayer you're probably going to be better off in most scenarios you're getting a couple people getting a team being multiplayer yeah yeah it's pretty you're going to find some stuff and of course you could drill down and go really deep and be like technically that's by yourself but you're going to be hard for us to find a scenario where you'd be better off alone rather than with a guy who's down the down for the cause as much as you aligned and not to mention three guys or four guys or a whole team you know like multiple people will get it done better than one person most of the time that's just that's just the way it is so there you go

if you can get that multiplayer game going uh next one From Ray, what advice do you have for entering the game later in life? Starting a business at 41, feeling like I lost some key years to make hay while the sun shines. Thanks, Shalko. Huge part of the reason I got it together is your podcast. Well, that's awesome. But it didn't have anything to do with me. That's you.

You got it together. I didn't do it. So here's the thing. You're 41 years old. Guess what? You have some experience in life. So utilize that experience. and be smart.

Also, you have to pay attention because you're 41. You've got limited time for reboots, right? You've got limited games. You've got limited number of games you're going to play from here on out. Like you probably lost the opportunity

to play two, three games. Now, what cool is, you learned a lot. You may not feel, what happens now? You look back and you're like, man, I missed out on that game. I missed out. But now you know. You know what you missed out on.

So, you know, do a little bit of risk mitigation, a little bit extra risk mitigation. Lean a little bit more conservative than you would if you were 22. You're 22, you're like, I don't care. I'll live in my car, right? Well, you're 41. I don't know, you got a wife, kids. Like, you're not living in your car. So you got to mitigate risk a little bit.

What the good thing is when you're 21, you're spending money on freaking booze and clubs. You're not doing that when you're 41. You can be smarter. So you keep that in mind. Know what the minimum standard is? You know, I joke or don't joke. I often tell people that, you know, when I was starting businesses and whatnot,

I told my wife, I was like, hey, you know, if this doesn't go well, we might be just like living in our RV traveling up and down the coast of California surfing and just hanging out. And we won't have a house or anything. And she was like, that sounds kind of fun. I was like, okay, cool.

So know what the minimum standard for your family is and what the minimum standard for you is and then don't you know put that money take that money off the table take that lifestyle money off the table to make sure that you're good to go You know there's a temptation when you're 31 You're like oh I got this business going. It's going well. I'm gonna I'm gonna mortgage the house Well when you're 31 and you mortgage the house and you lose it cool your bankruptcy clears by your time you're By the time you're, what, seven years. So you clear that BK and now you can come back. You've got a steady job. You can get another house, right?

But if you're 41 and you mortgage the house and then you lose it, now you're like 50, bro. We don't want to be doing that. So that's why I'm saying risk mitigation. That would be the advice for entering the game a little later on. Pay attention. Next question from Mike. Cool cart.

The cool part about life as a game is that there are no three strikes and now as hard as life can be made or it is easier. It is the easier fact known as hard as life can be or made. It is the easier fact known not quite sure 100% there. There's always something else you can do. Yep. Just don't quit. Yep. That's true for the most part. We can screw things up permanently. And look, you can you can screw things up permanently and you can try to recover from them and you can move your life in a better direction. But like you get a DUI where you kill a freaking kid on a bicycle and you go to prison and you come out with no license and guilt. Like you can do better. But, you know, you're going to have a hard time. Life is going to be hard.

You, you know, get caught with, you know, drugs doing. something stupid coming across the border right i mean you can do some dumb stuff you you can get oh you're drunk you hit some punch some guy in the face he falls down hits his head on a curb he's dies and it's on video and everybody sees that you started it and now you're going to jail for manslaughter like this so so just just keep that in mind just keep that in mind there are things that you can do that's kind of like strike three and look you're you can you can still get your life together you can still it in the most positive direction like you can definitely move things in a positive direction but you're going to be in a tough spot and it's going to take a long time to recover so that's why

let's be smart how many of those things that i just mentioned were just alcohol involved man alcohol like just you know it's a big one you got rid of that if you took that out of your life or if you took that out of society there'd be so many less people doing dumb stuff yeah I mean, you go watch whatever kind of fights, you know, the fights on YouTube. Yeah. Well, yeah. Best street fights or whatever. It's like a Twitter account, I think.

But occasionally you'll see two guys that are like sober and squaring off, like a road rage incident. Like they're both sober. But man, a lot of them, they're drunk in the streets. Yep. Yeah, that one where that freaking guy got his throat cut. No. I was like in Australia. And, you know, guys just out.

They're drunk. Obviously, everyone's not. Totally drunk, but you can tell they're drunk and they're talking shit to each other and you know the guy kind of gets in another guy's face and the guy has a knife He's like what are you gonna do cut me and then they kind of walk away and you're like okay and then they Confrontation comes back. They start yelling each other and the dude just like in a split second Cuts the dude's throat and the guy kind of grabs his neck He doesn't really react but other than grabbing his neck and you can see blood just pouring out Yeah, and he grabs his neck. He grabs his neck. He's he grabs his neck. He's he

He holds his neck while standing for two seconds. Then he slumps to the ground and he's dead. You know, you take alcohol out of that. Neither one of these people would have done this dumb shit. Yeah. And you think, and it's all on video. So the guy that did the knifing is now in jail for the rest of his life. It's just terrible.

So, yes, I agree with you, Mike. There's no three strikes. Like, you can, hey, you can fail this business. You can do you can break up with this relationship. You can start a career that didn't go very, Well, all those things can happen. All those are recoverable. Just don't, just, just, just don't do anything really stupid.

Yeah. Yeah, a lot of those, uh, a lot of mistakes that we make in life are very avoidable. Like, you know, I understand like, hey, man, you made the best decision. It turned out to be wrong and all this stuff or whatever, you know, little lapses of judgment like here. But yeah, like a lot. There's some big ones. Like how you said that like the DUI one and because that's super common, man. DUI?

Super common. So it's like that's a completely 100% avoidable thing. Even a fight, a street fight, isn't 100% avoidable all the time. But the DUI, straight up is. So the alcohol element of it makes those avoidable problems harder to avoid. Yep. Freaking influence. Be careful.

It's like this powerful bad influence. That's what it is. Yeah. Just like kind of puts your judgment to sleep for a little while. Yeah. It's like in bed. Your judgment wakes up later when you're in prison and you're like, Or you're in like the jail cell.

Yeah. And your, your judgment wakes up and it's like, bro. What did you do? And you're like, it's kind of like, I hope you didn't do anything that stupid. You know,

I hope you just got into a little scuffle with a bouncer and you got locked up. I hope we're not in here for a manslaughter. Your judgment wakes up. Right? Like more like it was asleep the whole time. Yeah. It wakes up. What I miss?

Yeah, what I miss? Like, where are we right now? Yeah, that's true. I will say like, I always had a little. in the back of my head even when I used to drink I'd be like it's good time to leave like hey grab the guys and get out of here yeah like this is this isn't going in a good direction time to get hey guys let's roll yeah I always had that little little something in the back of my

head yeah thankfully yep some people that judgment man he's going to sleep real quick get a watch out get that sauce in there all right Matt says how do you manage multiple games that are going on yep prioritize next year and listen here The thing with prioritizing execute is as you're doing it, you have to be, you have to have to have an open mind and pay attention to the feedback that you're going to get, right? Multiple games, you got your job, you got your family, you got your fitness. There's three of them, right? We're playing all these games.

Job, family fitness. And so at some point in your life, your job is going to be more important. You got a big project that's due and like it's with a huge client or it's, you're building something and you've got a big concrete port that's going on and you got to get everything where you're working from some 16 hour days getting ready for that. and your family is going to get put on the back burner. Your fitness gets put on the back burner a little bit. But listen, you got to pay attention when you come home after that concrete

poor happens and you did it and successful. And now, okay, it's time to be home on time. It's time to cut the boys loose for a little while and like, hey, let everyone go have dinner with your family. Oh, you've got to go to the wrestling match tonight. Go to the wrestling practice. Just check in with the kids. See how they're doing.

Maybe your fitness fell off a little bit for four or five days So you got to pay attention to that you're going to be attuned to the feedback that you're going to get the feedback from you're getting get from your in this particular case your fitness you're like yeah I feel like crap I was I went up and visited my daughter Hell yeah and you know we went out to some like nice restaurants and whatnot and Then we came home I told my wife I was like I might be getting sick I don't feel good And I was like oh no I ate like french fries yesterday and like pizza or pasta something like that before and I was like oh that's like two days Of kind of junk. Yeah, and sure enough came home and I did like a little fast and then just ate clean for a day. I was like oh, I'm actually fine. I just felt like junk because I ate like junk

So I also had some German chocolate cake. Are you aware of this? I'm aware of German we got one and we kind of passed it around the fam But it was really good, you know, but that's another thing that you don't feel good. You feel good while you're eating it. Yeah But then when you're done eating it well actually it's about like maybe the next day You feel I don't know we pass it around I probably had seven bites of it Yeah, a lot of frosting. I kind of went deep on the frosty. Yeah, yeah, is that the cuz there's coconut in now? Yes, there's coconut. Yeah, yeah Yeah, but it's one of these you ever get been to a place where they go oh you got to try this thing whatever, they're like their specialty.

It was one of those places. Yeah, I dig it, man. And seven bites, you know, it's not too bad. If you eat like two whole ones or something, then you might be in trouble. But then, you know, I had the, forget about it. No, those bread came out and I was like, eh, because look, bread, let's face it.

You get like that hot bread from a restaurant. Yeah. And it's got like the, you know, they put butter with the flavor in it of some kind? Oh, big time. Yeah. So when that shows up, Sometimes that can be sometimes you go

Discipline equals freedom here's the freedom part. I'm gonna get me some of that Yeah, yeah but it's got to be good yeah for me like I want it to be really I don't if it's okay Yeah, you're passing passing that's so funny I'm the exact same thing okay well there exactly yeah Brother's a place called Kiyokies Paradise on Kauai Southside if you ever go oh hell yeah So instead of bread they have muffins and they're like kind of sweeter but I think they're like a I don't know they have some maybe some carrot shards I don't know. They have something in there, and they're sweet muffins.

And then they bust out. Carrots. You know, you shart. What do you call? You grate the carrot. I hear you. I'm tracking. I'm tracking those carrot charms.

These muffins are like really good. And just like you were, it's like, yeah, if they bust out bread and I look at it and the crust of the bread is kind of hard and like it's just normal bread, but I'm passing on every day, every time. But sometimes, and it depends. There's different kinds of, where like, oh, yeah. There's some good bread scenarios that you're like, okay, here's a freedom part. Well, that's like pizza.

Yeah. I mean, the range of taste of a good pizza versus a not good pizza, that's a huge range. So true. And pizza, let's face it, is kind of not good for you. And but there's some, and there's some pizzas you could eat it and it's just, it's just tastes like crap. It's just junk. Why would you be eating this? Then sometimes you get, there's a couple places where that pizza, you know, let's roll.

Give me a piece of that You know what pizza I freaking love And you're probably not even gonna be happy about this Is Papa Johns Okay It's like a full on chain It's probably like a lot of artificial This and that in it

I don't know I don't know the recipe So I don't want to make like that But you ever been to Felipe's pizza grotto Yeah Or yeah In San Diego Yeah What do you mean?

I dig it I dig it I dig it But I don't know That place is next level It's next level Yeah I dig it.

I always thought Lucadia was the best place in San Diego. Good. You know, good. But I'm just saying. Brother, there's a place called brick oven pizza on Klai. Yeah, we're going back to Klai. Yeah, really. That's the level, what do you call it in the top tier?

Have you ever seen Dave Portnoy does like the pizza review thing? No. Oh, yeah. He just like tries pizza wherever he goes. Yeah. Seems like a good idea. Yep. Yep.

You know? That is a good idea. It's like a good excuse to just eat all kinds. Yeah. And the other cool thing is like he basically just has. a few bites of it. You know? And then maybe you go,

oh, it's not bad. And he rates it. Yeah. And then he goes, oh, this one's a 6.2. But if it's 6.2, to me, is not worth eating.

Yeah. You know, you get something that's a, you know. It's basically 9, 10. Yeah. I'm with you. I'm with you.

So you got to pay attention to the feedback that you're getting and make sure that you make adjustments in your priorities. Because if you come home from work after you've been pouring concrete and it's been a big part of the job and you've been working 18 hour days

for six straight days getting ready for the poor and the poor all this stuff now you get done with that you got to pay attention to your family who you've been blowing off and you've got to say oh this weekend guess what we're going to do

I'm not going to take my cell phone with me and we're just going to go on this camping trip and we're going to chill so pay attention be attuned to the feedback that you're going to get that's how you manage these multiple games that are going on in life I like the idea of subtracting

useless stuff and sometimes it can be hard especially if you really like doing it or whatever I was talking to Keenan Cornelius our friend Jiu-Jitsu guy and we were talking about how like you know we're catching up a little bit and he mentioned this how he would

he subtracted some stuff out of his life like what? Video games was a big one so if you like video games face it I don't know where you're going with

it's crazy how video games are so probably you know even when I was young I played video games or whatever but I guess it's kind of like in a way in a way kind of like alcohol where it's like man it's surprising how successful that is as a product yeah and it gets you literally nowhere but it's like dang but but there is something to it for sure but anyway the point is when you when you subtract these things that are conducive to especially when you talk about managing multiple games probably managing multiple games what the what are you doing over here with a video game

or whatever whatever that thing is that's jamming you up except Lose, the video games. Did you ever get addicted to video games? Did you ever play more than like an hour, two hours a day? Yeah, yeah. No, I would not say I was addicted. It was just, I was a kid. I was a kid and freaking, yeah, the game, Tekken.

You ever heard of that? Tekken. I think I've seen like the graphics of it, but I don't think I ever played it. Yeah, the original PlayStation 1 and PlayStation 2. That was my era of video game involvement. We were so, you know my dad's like cheap, right? I do now. Yeah.

Yeah, but, but he was also kind of into computers early on. Yeah. And so he had a Commodore 64. Hell, yeah. Back in the day. But he had this game. So the games were all like kind of cheap imitations of real games. Oh, yeah.

And we had one that was called a muck, a mok. Okay. A mock. That's probably the only video game I played. What is it? I don't know. I kind of, you ran around in some underworld, tried to stay away from the monsters or something. Yeah, yeah.

But the opening thing, it talked. The opening, it said, another visitor, stay a while, stay forever. And then you, and it started the game. But it was kind of, back in the day, having the thing that was talking was kind of legit. Yeah. You were like, this thing might be kind of my friend.

It actually sounds like a kind of crazy game. Commodore 64. Commodore 64. Remember Atari? Yep. Like, did you ever have an Atari? No, and that was the thing. like normal people got Atari's but we didn't know well I don't think games were as

addicting back then oh no I think they're just more they're fun little recreational kind of real basic you know they have an Atari thing where you just get like the Atari joystick and all the games are in yeah I have that not Atari though the Nintendo I'm the Nintendo one and yeah I play that Dr. Mari because there's some games that it's like oh this takes some actual like math like geometry like skill like Tetris Dr. Mari like these kinds of games, rather than they can be pretty fun.

But you can tell it takes like a different type of skill than like a tech in. But I would say the most addicted person to Tetris was still not. Like they started to hone how you get the dopamine. The dopamine distribution in those games. We're now, I mean, guys,

I mean, we had a guy come to the monster, great dude who had been addicted to video games. And he was like embarrassed to tell me about it. You know, he's like, I'm embarrassed to tell you this. I was addicted to video games.

He goes, you're not going to understand this. He's like, I'm embarrassed to tell you this. You're not going to understand it at all. But I was addicted to video games. And I was like, well, what do you mean? He goes, I played whatever it was, 13 hours, 14 hours, 15 hours a day, wouldn't sleep so I could play, had spent all my money on it, like all that stuff. And he realized it was an addiction.

He listened to the podcast and realized it was addiction and said, okay, I got to stop this shit. And he sold all of his games, sold his console, use the money to buy a ticket to the Cumbra Monster. And he told me that story. But perfect. To your point. When you got, when you're trying to get these multiple games going on, and you got something that's encroaching on your time that isn't giving you any benefit. That's when we talk about on one of the last podcasts about this subject.

You're doing something that doesn't help your long term strategic goal. Get it out. Get it out. It's not worth it. Yeah. So get it out of there. And you hear that too where it's like, oh yeah, if you're binge watching a Netflix series. It's like, that's kind of a version of that where it's like, yeah, you know, you know.

So you got to, yeah, you got to take action on that kind of stuff. The video game thing, the new video games, and I'm sure this is their gig as far as video game creators, they make you care about what's going on in the game. So when you're not playing it, you still kind of care about that game, you know? It's like that kind of level stuff. Like even the graph, probably you see the graphics nowadays? Yeah, the graphics are insane. Yeah, they're like, I remember when we used to have Nintendo, right, the regular Nintendo and then we'd go to this place called the Fun Factory, basically a video arcade. And those big games, you know, the stand-up ones, the graphics like were so good, so good compared to the Nintendo.

Nowadays, like you can have that. In fact, my brother has one of those big consoles and just like other Nintendo, all the games are in it. But you look at those, you look at those old school games like Rastan. It's like a Conan guy. That was my favorite game. Just super basic. Jump and strike. You can get different weapons, but it was awesome.

And basic, or the graphics. are really good but now you look at those graphics compared to like the graphic the graphics now look like straight on movies oh yeah actual motion pictures oh yeah for sure no i've seen him i've seen freaking impressive get those things out of your out of your don't play those games play the real games um next oh wait that's what keenan said right there he was like this is how i shifted it with the video games he was like instead of like improving the status of my character in my video games I am now the video game in my own or I'm now the character in my own video game. So now I'm trying to improve the rabbit holes of like there are so many things you can learn like you let's say you have you know you you're very robust skill set right jaco

let's say you have six definite skill sets like of course there's a little micro skill sets within the let's say you have six marketable skills we'll say like black belt level brown black competitive we'll just say I don't think that's a big number. I don't think that's a big number. I don't I don't know anybody that has six black belt level skills in their life. And that's part of the point where, okay, let's say you got four, right? That's a lot. Four is a lot. I think two would be pretty legit. So marketable skills, you're exactly right. One is, I would think anyway.

I don't know. I'm not the nowhere of all things, but it seems like one is about the standard. If you have two, right, you're in excellence level. Now you have three. Okay, so of course it takes a while to get a blackout level. This is like the classic like Renaissance man, right? That's it, right? Someone that's got multiple black belts and multiple skill arenas.

Now, the reality is you don't have to be a black belt and everything. And that's how the conversation started. He said, I was a polymath. Polymath. That's what? And I was like, what does that mean? He was like, you have like usable skills in a bunch of different arenas and they all can play. And that's how we got on the video game.

But it's like, man. Wait, he said he was a polymath? No, he said I was a polymath. You echo Charles? Micro trolls, yeah. We're a polymath. Yeah, because he had multiple skills. That I had, okay, so me and Keenan, I know Keenan from back when I used to make videos for Metamorph's, the thing.

But I really hit off with that guy when I met him where he'd like be talking about something, but like, oh, yeah. And I kept in touch with him. And, you know, then we start training to become friends or whatever, just over the years. But he was one of these main guys that I would like randomly have thoughts and ideas with. And then I'd like call him and like we'd just talk. Like I'd go to like drop something off at his gym or something or see somebody or whatever and wind up talking in for like two. hours in his office, just all kind of stuff, you know. So he's like one of these guys. And then I hadn't seen for a long time until today, like in person. So he was like,

oh, yeah. So we're catching up is what I'm saying. And then it's like, oh, you've been doing. And it's, and you know, like obviously there's obvious stuff that he knows that I'm doing because he's online or whatever. Then there's like the additional stuff. And so we're just kind of catching up. That's when he was like, oh, you're like a polymath. You do this, this, this, this. God. Like literally is part of your job, you know. Right. So anyway. So the point there is in life, like there are so many opportunities and ways to learn new stuff where here's one. I went down this rabbit. Hold on.

I'm not a, this isn't one of my marketable skills, obviously, but being a plumber. So the idea of being a plumber, you know, like some people are like, oh yeah, that's so neat. That's basic stuff or whatever. But I never got into plumbing. I don't know how that stuff works. So like you can go to like on YouTube and there's so many resources just to learn so many things in life where you can get. all those skills whatever skill you want yeah now if you can shift your mindset to be like hey that's my game that's what I'm doing I don't want to improve the um speed of my

character on this video game I want to improve the speed of my character in real life or this not or like this oh now my my video game character can cast spells you know which is freaking say oh I can actually join copper pipe because I learned some skills exactly right I got really lucky when it can I worked construction for a little while when I was a kid. And like the guy I worked for, he did everything. And so that means I did everything, right? Like we built whole houses from nothing to built.

You know, that means you're doing, you have a little hand and everything. And man, what a good experience. Because I did, you know, like I did plumbing. I did electrical. I did framing. I did finish. And look, and I'm not, bro, I'm not good at any of these things. You're not black belt carpet.

Especially finish work. Like I don't like finish work. That's where you're like, I don't have the mindset for it. Framing I like. Oh, I'm going to, oh,

this two by four has got to move another half an inch to the left. Cool. Boom. Boom. Ah, you know, it's like monkey. It's like ape activities.

Yeah. Whereas trim works like, hey, you got to put this thing in the perfect meat. It's a, you know, one 16th of an inch off. Got to redo it.

I don't like that. You can't just hit it. Yeah. But I got very lucky in having the opportunity to do a lot of those different skills Right and you reminded me of that when you were like when you told the story like actually was a long time ago, but you recently kind of mentioned as well where you like You did your whole kitchen or electrical or whatever over the weekend and I'm like this one of I wish because my dad was covering there too like literally my dad and two other guys built our whole house Yeah, where like and I watched him in here's a thing I would help like he'd help I knew like all about but I mean I wasn't like like how you got the opportunity to do

it with them yeah I was just like oh go clean up and my dad would and I was interested in like the artistic part of stuff anyway so I didn't but it just it blew right by me unfortunately and now as an adult semi full grown adult I'm like realizing the value of it and but man if you pay attention especially early on actually whenever man just pay attention but you can just what do you call level right in the video game you can level up your whole shit so let's do that let's follow a little Keenan Cornelius I'm he gave We were training today.

He's good, give me some good, some goods, you know? Some goods. You know, just like, hey, he's like, how I noticed you were doing this, boom, here's a solution. I'm like, and that's the thing with the jih Tjitsu, just like life. You know, it's like he's seeing something that I'm not seeing.

Why? Because I'm in the game. And he's watching me roll with Maha, and he's like, hey, you're doing this. And he goes, oh, you also did this with me and it doesn't work. And I was like, okay, cool. Can he's like, yeah, here's the solution.

Oh, okay, thank you. You know what I mean? Like that's that's why opening your mind up, trying to put yourself into receive mode and and putting yourself out there. Like you got to do it. Yeah. That's the same thing. That's one thing that I what's a bummer is even though YouTube's cool for like plumbing.

Nothing better than doing a project. Yeah. I agree. Nothing better than doing a project because that's how you're actually going to do it. When you do it, you learn it. Now listen, you like a drywaller. Man, respect. Good drywallers, they'll drywall this room in like an hour.

No kidding. The rock is, the rock is up and they mud it and tape it and it's done in an hour. This would take me, this would take me like a day and a half. You know, so I'm saying they could do it in an hour. Think about that. They could do it in an hour. It would take me a day and a half. Now over time, you can get better at it.

But you got to do it. Yeah. You got to do it. Yeah. But the YouTube or whatever, whatever resource or whatever, it's like it's literally a free like guide. Yeah. And a free kind of in a way coach. You know what's interesting is when you were that story about me redoing my kitchen.

So I did my kitchen in my old house and like I had a three day weekend. And I got the whole I stripped it down to the studs. Reded the plumbing, redid the electrical and got the dry wall hung. I didn't get it mudded. Got the drywall hung in 72 hours including putting in a new electrical subpanel for the for the kitchen itself But what's interesting this is pre- YouTube I want to say this was like Let's see what year was that I got that house

It might have been like I don't know if YouTube was out, but it was like 2001 2002 something like that But you know what I had to do it because I took electricity in high school, but there's like you know you get like the I faded memories but I went to Home Depot and I bought like an actual book like electrical work or whatever and I was able to oh yeah no I remember that plumbing I kind of remembered plumbing is a little bit easier to remember yeah the thing that sucks about plumbing is when you screwed up you know right where it is because there's water coming out of it the thing that sucks about electrical is when you

screwed up you don't know what you don't know where you messed up it's somewhere in the system yeah you know seldom do you get like a spark it's just like oh this doesn't work yeah got to figure it out so there you go all right next question Kimberly says could you touch more on deciding what new games to start when coming to the end of the first big game I may be coming to the end of my big game and while I feel like the world is my oyster I also don't really know where to start I've been grinding at the same game for so long I've never really thought about my values or made any other goals for myself outside of it I

I want to make sure I'm honest with myself and not just throwing out random ideas that sound cool in the moment. Well, that's, that's, oh, hey, good for you, first of all. It sounds like probably this is a career situation. Does that sound like a career situation? You've been in a career, you've done good, you're exiting or you, whatever, time to move on.

First of all, I'd say there's lots of opportunities, you know, and I would not jump into any one of these opportunities at once. I wouldn't just overcommit to any, opportunity that comes up. I would, you know, do various reconnaissance and try, see what you like this and, you know, talk to these people and see what this game is like and, you know, go try, you know, go try tennis, go try jujitsu, go try boxing, go try croquet, go try, uh, what's the new one, pickle ball, like give them a try.

Now here's the, here's what's kind of challenging about this. When you're trying sports like that, There's a decent chance that you're not good enough at it to make it fun. When you go surfing for the first time, it's not fun. When you go to jitza for the first time, it's not fun. I was thinking about it. When you go to tennis for the first time, it's not fun. When you go to pickle ball for the first time, it's not fun.

You're just getting smashed. You miss the ball. You get choked. You fall off the surfboard. You can't. So with those kind of activities, you have to do them long enough that you start to feel the return on investment from the, from the effort that you're putting into it.

So it's a little bit, you know, you have to pay attention to that when you're talking about what new career opportunity do you want to get into. Because some of it, you might go, I tried this and I don't like that industry. Okay, well, let's make sure

that you actually understood it well enough. I think it's a little bit easier to understand an industry than a new physical sport. But I always talk about the fact that I like to try, from a business perspective, I like to try a lot of different things.

Oh, we'll try this. We'll try that. You know, let's do this thing over here. Let's make this and see how they do. And don't over commit to something that we're not sure how well it's going to do. So I would, when it comes to trying to figure out what game to play next, I would dabble a bit. Go, go try, go experiment, go see what's going on. Go volunteer at some, you know, financial firm.

Go volunteer at some construction firm. Go, go, you know, just, hey, I want to see what you guys do. And that's what I would do in that. I think the good, what I liked about this question was when you talked about the values. And I think you said, I've never really thought about my values or made any other goals for myself outside of the work that you were in. You said it, but outside the work that you were in. I think this is a great opportunity. And I think this should really drive the first part of the question.

I think you need to write down. I think you need to do a little soul searching and write down like, what a, are your values what what do you what do you enjoy what do you like what do you want what gives you gratification and then figure out why those things give you gratification and I think a good way to do this is play out some some hypothetical scenarios right like you're oh you're gonna go for this industry what does it look like when you win what kind of you know oh oh I make a bunch of money well make sure that that's really what you value because if you make a bunch of

but you're working 80 hour days and you're stressed out all the time now if you there's some people that love that environment you know there's some people that love that environment there's some people that really like that I'll be honest with you I kind of like it I like when things are a little bit chaotic I enjoy it when there's tough decisions make I really I like that not everyone's like that some people they start to break down when that happens so I would try and and yet there's like a push like a social push to be like on the grind right the grind is not good for everybody some people like it some people don't it's not if but if it's not for you then don't get into

some game because everyone's on the grind and the grind and this and that oh yeah toxic productivity right sure grind culture grind culture thank you so we got to watch out for that but figure out what you actually value so you see there's a little difference between values and what you value You know what I'm saying? Values is a thing like I value my values are integrity My values are treating people with respect those those are good, but then you also have to figure out the other thing which is with what you actually value Not just your values as a person, but what you actually value and

Then take that list then go and start to do your reconnaissance of the world and see what you really want to do Don't commit don't over commit to anything Take small steps and you're going to end up in a good spot. Good luck, Kimberly. Next question is from Anthony. When you got into the game concerning the military, it really made me think about some of the struggles I've seen friends struggle with. Similar to the NFL, many people just give it everything and don't think about the broader game outside. Yes.

You see people struggle with demons post service because they feel dejecture cast out. Military just like sports isn't an end game. And if more young people understood that when joining it would probably help curb some of the issues that's face later on. Yep, this is true. You got to recognize that whatever your job is, whether you're an NFL player, a special operations commando, a hedge fund manager, whatever that thing is, it's not you. It's not you. and there's more to life than that thing. So keep that in mind all the time.

Keep that in mind all the time. That's one game. And there's a bigger game to pay attention to. And that I agree with Anthony that that will help. Jessica says, first I want to say, I love these two episodes. And the quote, discipline is rooted in the truth we tell ourselves. Well, it's so good. My question is, would you please speak on the topic of playing the game you don't want to be

For reference, my daughter is severely disabled by a rare genetic disorder. The game I play is not one I wanted to play. And yet, as you say, all you can do is say good and move on with it. But this game is played with neither talent nor passion for the game. Only the wee player you're playing it with. It comes with a lot of stress and regret for a path you don't get to get on. Well, yeah, Jessica, definitely there are games in. life that we're going to get forced to play and yours is an especially tough one and look you're

right but what can you do about that can you curl up into a ball on the couch and cry and wish it would go a different way you can do that but that's not going to help you so as you said the best thing you can do is say okay good let's move forward and then I think you know if you want to the threat on that it's hold on a second what is good about the situation that I'm in right now I have to you know you you have regret for the paths that you can't get on so maybe you were gonna do a career you're gonna have more kids or you're gonna you know travel whatever it is and all of a sudden you're looking around going up no I'm not gonna be able to play those games I'm stuck in this game so what do we

take away from that for me you know um the appreciation for what you do have is so powerful to think about the fact that you've got this daughter who needs help and you are capable of giving her that help and where would she be without you and then the appreciation for other members of your family that have their health and you know I've I've had some hard conversations with kids over the years you know little warrior kids that are eight years old or 10 years old or whatever and they're and they're sick they're facing legitimate debilitating diseases like whether they've got cancer or they've got whatever whatever debilitating disease they've got and you know when I

talk to those kids I always tell them I give them a smile and I say hey listen what you're going through right now it's going to make you so tough you're going to be able to do anything and I feel Jessica that that's what you are going to experience is the effort that you put forth to play a game that you didn't didn't want to play to get thrown into a game that you didn't want to play but you give that game everything you got I think that will give you massive mental strength in life and something that I believe will probably benefit you and if you have the ability I think it'll actually help a lot of other people as you can pass on some of these lessons learned as we started off talking on this podcast about the fact that

one of the most rewarding things and one of the best things that you can do as a human being is take your experiences and what you learn and pass them on other people so I think that this experience that you're going through that's so challenging so brutal every single day and yet you're playing that game to the best of your ability I think there's you're going to take so much away from that it's going to give you an incredible opportunity to help others so stay strong jessica stay strong You got an awesome attitude next question is from Jonathan Hey Jocko could you explain how to compete within your own team in order to benefit the organization

I work in construction heavy equipment to be exact I would like to figure out how to generate friendly competition amongst my coworkers in order to progress all of our skills and coherence yeah this is exactly what you said you know setting up friendly competitions to progress skills is a thing and it's a good thing And in the SEAL teams, we did that with everything. Shooting, you did competitions, running, you're doing competition, diving, you're doing competitions, parachute, everything you're doing is a competition. I'm going to land closer to the T.

When you parachute, you land on a T. I'm going to, you know, shoot this course of fire faster than you are. Everything's just a little competition. And it does, as you said, progresses your skills. And it's the same thing. I see it all times with businesses, you know, the sales competition that's going on or the operational turn times or the cost to produce. And like all these things, little competitions. So I think, you know, when you ask how to compete within your own team, what you do is you just set up fun competitions.

And you make sure that the competitions are fun and you make sure that they don't undermine the team. Because that can happen where all of a sudden, you know, echo against me and I decide I'm going to cheat. or I decide I'm not going to give Echo the key piece of information. Oh, I had a sales call and I ran into this objection, but I'm not going to tell Echo how I handled this, so that way he won't surpass me. So make sure that your small competitions that you have are embedded and nested in a larger overall goal

that everyone is a part of. So if Echo is competing against me in sales, and we set up a competition between us too, we also want to set up a competition where our whole team is trying to sell X amount of whatever widgets. So even though we're competing, we also want to reach the overall goal. So that's what we're doing.

Friendly competition is good. You have to make sure as a leader it doesn't turn into unfriendly competition. He says, another question I have is, when do you know you're being overcompetitive and souring relationships and your family, friends, and work groups.

Again, the answer is in the question. You know you're being overcompetitive when you make people mad. And my guess is, Jonathan, that you like to compete, you like to get big, you like to get fuel off that, which probably if that's the way you roll, it's going to piss some people off. And so my assumption is that you like to compete, you like to win, you do this often.

And I would because you have, and if I'm, you know, I could be wrong. But if you have that, if that's your innate nature, then let's just lean towards building relationships instead of competing all the time. Okay. Because I can see just by now that I see both these questions, you're probably like the super like hype competitive. Like that W on the scoreboard. But if that's your nature, then be careful of it.

We always have to be careful of our own tendencies. I have a tendency to be very hands off from a leadership perspective, and I have to pay attention to that. Because otherwise, I'll just like, yeah, you guys do whatever you want. I have to pay enough attention to that. Hey, let me check it. Let me make sure we're going in the right direction. So you have to be aware of your tendency, which seems like your tendency is hypercompetitive. Be careful.

Ryan Dial. It says often in a game you can find yourself in a hopeless situation. Say fourth quarter down 56 points. I'm that situation. Oh, in that situation, how do you find the fortitude to keep fighting back, even with the acceptance of knowing and owning that your mistakes got you there? Well, what are my options? We're down fourth quarter, we're down by 56. What are my options?

Lay down and quit? No. I mean, well, okay, it is an option, but I would not take that option. I would fight. And in these situations where you're going to lose, fighting is winning. That's the best you're going to get. That's the best you're going to get. Is to go out on your shield.

Now, listen, that's what we're talking football. If you're in a situation where we're talking a big game, we're talking life, we're talking and you made some mistakes. Well, what adjustments can we make? How can we rebuild? How do we take ownership of whatever we did that was wrong and get it back together? and put together some semblance of forward positive motion. You know, like we brought up some pretty horrible examples earlier.

You freaking got a DUI, you crashed, you freaking killed somebody, killed a kid on a bicycle, right? You're losing. So what are you going to do? What you're going to do is the best you can. You know, that's what you're going to do. Obviously, you're never going to drink again. Obviously, you're going to spend a bunch of time donating your time and efforts to help solve the problem of drunk driving and going to talk to schools.

And you're going to do a bunch of things as repentance for this horrible thing that you did. That's the best you can do. But we're not giving up. See, that's the key point here. We're not giving up. We're not quitting. We're not saying I did this horrible thing and now I quit. No, we're never saying that.

It's unacceptable. It's unacceptable. It's unacceptable in any situation to say, you know what, I just give up on life. No, unacceptable. I put myself in a bad situation. I take ownership of it. I'm going to make forward progress. That's what we're doing.

So keep fighting, Ryan. We got Joe, life is a game should be a high school class. What would you include in such a class? I didn't learn that everything is a game until I was in my late, 20s when I realized how much I'd screwed up the beginning of my career managers were selected day 100 I started day 500 You know if I was gonna try and teach this to high school kids. I'd probably do something like what we did on these podcasts I'd clean it up obviously and and narrow it down but this isn't that complicated and if I was gonna be in a high school class I would teach it using things that people that they can relate to right so you talk about playing a game with your parents

You know I've had that conversation I had that conversation with my kids you know when they're interacting with their mom and things aren't going that great when they're going through that teenage whatever 13 14 years old I'm like this is a game and right now you're losing because you're grounded or right now you're losing because you're you've got animosity so you're losing this is a game you know what you have to do to win the game be nice show respect and then all of a sudden you won't you can pretty much do whatever you want sports school like oh my teacher sucks Okay, so what are you gonna do?

Misbehave in class? Get a get you know don't turn in your homework get a bad grade. How's that help? Or do you just hey, my teacher sucks? Okay, well form a good relationship with your teacher. Be nice to them. Try and help out. Do your homework assignments.

That's the way you create the minimum friction even though no one wants to hear that either by the way Teacher doesn't even care if we learn. Okay, so you're just gonna sit in the back and throw spit balls, shoot spitballs at the blackboard, right? Right? Yeah. Is that a thing anymore? Oh, I don't know. That was kind of like a thing.

Spitballs must still be a thing, right? I don't know, man. I don't hear much about spitballs nowadays. But I don't know. It's been a long time. There's probably like other things to do. Yeah. Where spitballs a thing in your high school?

Yeah, here and there. Wait, what's a spitball? Is that the straw? Yeah, yeah. I mean, you pretty much take a piece of paper, chew it in your mouth. It's covered with spit. You put in a straw or whatever. And like hits the chalkboard.

Yes. Where who did that? Oh, yeah. I don't think I'd ever do it in the class, but outside or whatever. So that's what you're going to do. Shoot spitballs at the blackboard, cause problems. Like, how is that helping? What does that do?

It's going to make your life worse. You're going to get in trouble, get detention, get a bad grade, all those other crafts are going to happen. Or so you can play the game. Teachers doesn't care if you pass, cool. Whatever. Yeah, that's a big one when you deal with, when you're dealing with other people.

like a teacher, whatever, especially when they're supposed to be nice in your mind or whatever. So I'm telling you a quick story. So in my kid's school, there's a crossing guard lady. She's not very nice. She's actually mean. That's why she's hired. So this is the kind of she's mean. She's dramatic.

She's like, and so she'll just yell at you in front of everybody if you don't like it. If you don't step perfectly on the cross, the crosswalk or, you know, like that kind of stuff. She's yelling at you? Oh, yeah. everybody she she said she's gonna call the police of me so here dang bro so you need to play the game this is my early wrong with you bro this is my early experience right so me bro i don't care about any cross-guard lady at all i don't care like you don't care who she's yelling at bro i don't care um so i'm like i'm playing i'm gonna drop off my kids for to school and i'm coming from

this opposite direction as like we would normally normally come and she's running the crosswalk she's got to her you know her helpers or whatever so i come i pull on the side of the road in an quote unquote unauthorized drop off the spot you're that guy the brown that guy I don't care drop them off of my kids I don't care what this lady says right okay so I hope you got I hope you got the cops called on she like looked at me right she seen me boom obviously it's like huge violation in her world and then so she starts yelling from where she is well charging over to me and and I'm in the car and I wish I couldn't see this this is and he's and he's

He just thing me had me. My wife is like early on me, my wife and the kids in the car. So she comes up, rolls up to my window and is like yelling at me. This is not the spot. Like it was a massive personal violation to her. It's not the spot. I'm going to call the cops and have them come over here and like arrest you for like parking here and doing all this stuff, right?

Like outlandish stuff. And again, Brad, I don't care about this. Lady. So ultimately it's kind of funny because it's like, bro, first off, you're not going to call it. We all know that. And even if you did call the cops, the cops would be like, what do you want me to come over there for? Who is this? The crossing guard lady from my throat? So anyway, so my kids are like, they don't know what to do. They're like getting out all quick and trying to run away. You know, my wife's like, oh man, shoot, that sucks, you know, kind of thing. And I'm kind of like, I'm not laughing, but I'm like, all right, lady, I get it. You know, we shouldn't do this. I get it, right?

But my natural instinct is be like, ah, screw that lady, right? Because she's yelling at everybody. Everyone doesn't like her. She's so mean, right? So later on, I kind of learn the protocol. I'm like, oh, I see what this lady's doing. Like, she's going about it all wrong for sure. But, you know, she's a salty old lady. So I'm thinking, huh? And my daughter is super nice to everybody. Like, she's super, she likes everyone.

So I'm thinking she's like, oh, my gosh, you know, the missus. And she has a name. I don't want to bust out her name. But crossing guard lady, like, she's so intimidating and all the stuff. I was like, hey, we should. I'm thinking this to myself, too, before I told it to her. we should be nice to that crossing guard lady just to see what to have because no one's nice to her and there's no reason for anyone ever to be nice because she's yelling at everybody so it's like why would someone get yelled then and be like oh and genuinely be nice to this person so you wait you told your daughter we should be nice to her yep so I thought about it for you know a week or whatever and then I came out with that I was like oh wait a second this is like no one's she's so mean that she made everyone else be mean back to her which fuels her meanness you know so it's like huh I was like hey we're gonna be nicer we're gonna follow all her rules too. I don't care how bad of a mood she's in like we're going to be nice.

Brough, like magic. The moment my daughter is like, oh hi, hi, hi, good morning or whatever. She'd be like, oh, hi. And so I've literally watched her and even, even I do it. I know she, or I don't know, maybe she doesn't remember me from the guy she's going to call the cops on. I'm sure she tells that to everybody, but whatever. She's super nice to me now. Like, when I walk or whatever. And again, like magic, I literally witness this all the time where she's like people are, you know, not stepping in the crosswalk correctly. or the car like you know didn't stop perfectly on the line or whatever she's literally yelling at everyone like she's in the worst mood and then we walk up and she's like she shifts smiling oh big oh hi good morning

thank you sir calls me sir calls me sir nobody calls me sir she calls me sir the meanest crossing guard lady i've ever witnessed in my whole life calls me sir only because all because we're just nice to yeah treat people with respect and be nice to them that goes a long way man it really does it's crazy And follow the little stupid rules, you know, like it's a big deal. And that was what really stood out too. I was like, bro, following these rules actually isn't even that hard. And quite frankly, I kind of severe point. Yeah, yeah.

Unless she's trying to protect these kids, bro. Yeah. What if everyone just followed the rules? Not attitude, no attitude, whatever. Just what if everyone just automatically follow us? You know how smooth this morning system wouldn't be? You know? She's like, bro, this lady has a point.

Just because she's yelling. It doesn't make her wrong, you know? So anyway, yeah. But again, like the instinct is like, oh, screw this, How dare her yell at me and all the parents of these children trying to get it. And we're like, why are you yelling at everyone? Kind of a thing. But no, yeah.

And her perspective, you know, she's like worried about the kids trying to get people and people just totally disrespecting her. Oh, yeah. I mean, like, kind of like you were. You're like, yeah. Well, you call the cops on me. Luckily you didn't say that. Laughing. Laughing at her.

Yeah. Exactly right. So you kind of like, she got to see her perspective a little bit. It's definitely a good move there. Echle Charles, you are commended. Although I would have liked to see you get arrested. Next question is from Noah. Is there an entrance exit strategy to enter and withdraw from one of life's games?

Or is it quite literally get in, get out? Example. I want to start a company. Should I do research and get all my data before starting or go in guns blazing? Hey, Noah, it isn't get all the data and research. and it isn't guns blazing. Those are extremes. And we don't recommend extremes.

We recommend iterative decision making. We recommend small steps and then pay attention to the feedback that you get. So there you go. No big deal. You want to get out of a game? Cool. You want to get into a different game?

All right. Just don't do it on a whim. Come up with a plan. Put it together. Make a first step. Assess what you got. make another step that's what we're doing next question is from David and it says work relationship etc as a game causes a shift in our chemistry we think of playing games as

fun so relating to work as a game creates a context for who we are being when we play the game fun excitement connection etc maybe playing the game is more powerful than winning oh yeah I like that And that's part of it. You know, we've answered some question on the other podcast is when something sucks, how do you make it into a game? So it's fun. You're exactly right.

Fun and connection and excitement are all good. That's one of the reasons you train that jujitsu, right? So playing is part of the game and part of the fun. And seeing things as a game can make things fun, even when they might not be fun. So I agree. Kyle here says, Any games of universal importance meaning not only to specific groups or circles when one walks away I think we'd have to go with health and fitness I think we'd have to go with teamwork and helping other people

I think we'd have to go with integrity Right is integrity game? Yeah, it is because it's something that you're trying to uphold your integrity as a person Telling the truth keeping your word Is integrity more important than winning? Yes, it is Um, well, at least, I guess for me it is. Some people, they'd rather win, you know, make more money or get a, get a reward or an award rather than, rather than keep their integrity. But I believe that the long game supports integrity.

So, and I think people that are out for themselves universally lose in the end. And we've kind of talked about that on this podcast. So yeah, those are some of the ones I can think of that are kind of, Universal games, helping other people, keeping your health in order, keeping your integrity. I think those are universal. Artie says, do you ever burn bridges when playing the game? And if you do, how do you act going forward if you see the person's involved or even need to work with them again? Well, now, that's why I don't burn bridges.

So I don't burn bridges. Because look, how is it going to help me to burn bridges? Or let me say I never burn bridges, but I very, Rarely burn a bridge. Very rarely burn a bridge. In fact, it's hard for me to, I don't think I've burned any bridges. I'm sure I could sit here for an half an hour

and think about somebody that did something at some point and I was like, yeah, you know what? That's not happening anymore. We had a company at Eschlam Front that wanted to work with me and they made a product that I did not think is a good product for humanity. And they, we didn't,

did a call with them or no I said no and then they said please do a call with us we really want to just we really want to talk to you and I said okay and so I was like finally relented and said okay I'll do a call with you and then they were pitching me and pitching me and pitching me and I finally said hey I do not think that your product will help people and in fact I think your product hurts people and therefore I will not be doing anything to help you share or spread your product to the world and they kind of got quiet and then they were like oh we appreciate you know your honest feedback and then Jamie we got her because Jamie was on the call and Jamie's like I've never seen you do that before and I was like yeah

because it was kind of also they weren't really getting the message I was like yeah I just know this is not you know something we want to get involved in and then they're like yeah blah blah blah blah blah blah and finally I just said hey I do not like what your product does in the world. Are you at liberty to say what the product is? I don't want to say it's not hard to figure out. You know, it's something that's not healthy and kind of addictive.

So matter of fact, not kind of something that's not good for people and addictive for people. And at the, with really no benefits whatsoever. You know, um, so that was the type of product that it was.

So I'm not going to generally, I'm definitely trying not to burn bridges. And it's for the exact reason. Like you burn a bridge today, how do you know what's going to hold in the future? And what benefit do you get from it? You don't get any benefit from it. Burning bridges with people.

Try and treat people with respect. Try and be nice to them. It's just better for you. It's better for them. It's better for the world. So I'm trying not to burn bridges. Samuel says, what do you think sets the rules and manufactures the game?

What do you think about God of the Bible who ordains and decrees all things? Quote, the sum of your word is truth and every one of your righteous rules indoors forever. End quote. You know, this is something that we covered on, I think, of one of the first podcasts. And that look, the rules that we follow for the game or the rules of the game come from different places, depending on who you are and if you if you're following the the rules from the Bible look much of Judeo-Christian society gets its rules from the Bible so certainly that has a huge influence on

things but there's other parts of the world there's other there's other parts of this country where people get their rules for different games from different things so I think the question is actually not who do I think sets the rules of the game It's who do you think sets the rules for the game that you're playing and what rules do you choose to follow So Nate says we'd love to hear you outline the games ecosystems you're currently engaged and go deep on one or two We go deep on all the games I'm involved in all the time What games are we in jiu jitsu right trying to improve trying to get better trying to evolve that's a game man We need to bring back the grounded podcast just talking about jihitsu because we're

There's deep. There's so much going on in the Jitzy world. Jocco Fuel. We got Jocco Fuel. That's a game involved in, right? We've got, we're making product. We're distributing the product all over the country. We're going into retail.

We're doing direct to consumers. All those things happening. We're growing very rapidly. Very cool game to be in, but it's a game. There's mistakes you can make on the board. You can get, what is it, return to go. Do not pass go. No, do not go to jail.

Go to jail. Don't pass go. You know, there's like, there's like things you can land on on the board. Yeah, sure. The retail board. Like there's, right now, uh, one of the big companies, one of the just giant billion dollar companies is going into some retail places that we're in and buying out the shelf space for millions of dollars.

So that's the game where we're, so we're playing against, you know, players that are bigger and stronger than us. Players that are bigger and stronger than us. Jiu-jitsu. You're going to go against people that are bigger and stronger than you. Just like war, you might have to fight an enemy that's bigger and stronger than you. So we have to maneuver, and we might lose a battle here and there. We might lose a battle to a big, strong person that's going to put, they're going to expend millions of dollars to take some of our shelf space away. Okay. Okay. We'll, we'll make an adjustment. What are we going to do? So there's a game that's being played

Eshalant Front. We got, you know, Eshalom Front. We're doing a bunch of things in Eshlam Front. Origin. I mean, well, Eshalant front. What are we doing at Eshlam Front? We got online training, right? That's a huge part of what we're doing right now

because it's the most scalable way to share the lessons that we've learned about leadership and life. So Extreme Ownership.com. There you go. What are we doing? That's what we're doing. Are we still doing a bunch of other? You know things, yes, we are, but that's a part of the game that we're moving on right now.

We're making moves. So that's what's happening. We've made bad moves. Like we used a learning management system that was awkward to log into and had a weird pricing the way you had to check out. All the stuff. Those are bad moves. What do we do? Okay.

Yeah, that didn't work too well. There's a sunk cost. We spent a bunch of money on it and building it. Oh, but it didn't work the way we needed it to do. Should we continue going down that path? Or do we say, you know what, that's not the, that's not the way it should be. It's negatively impacting the ability for us to get this information to people. Nope.

Okay. We're going to reinv going to give away that money. That money's gone. Reinvest the money into a new platform. That's what we did. We just launched the new platform. That's what's going on, right? This is all part of the game.

Those are like, that's a classic example right there, right? We spent a bunch of money on a platform. The platform didn't do what we wanted. it to do the way we wanted it to do it we tried we failed we tried we failed eventually it's like hey this is not working but we spent so much money yep sunk cost so let's just keep going no cut our losses new platform now of a sudden we got a platform we can give parts of it away for free we can we can contact people we can scale it in a way that wasn't possible with the other system so this is all this all the game it's all happening origin

Man, the game at origin is crazy. What we got going on there. You know, you're buying, we're buying millions of dollars worth of material. We know material that we don't weave. We buy. We buy it from American manufacturers. How long does it take to make? Right?

If you want to sell a pair of jeans, you had to order that denim four or five months ago. So there's, just think about the logistics. of that. So we've got to fit and by the way you pay somebody for denim four or five months ago that cost you several million dollars. Well, you didn't make jeans for five months. You ordered it. You paid for it. Five months went by. Then you got the material. Then you had to sew the jeans. There's another whatever month. And now it's out to be in retail to be sold there's six months where'd you get a million where'd you get three point two million dollars worth of material what'd you do where'd you get that money from well

that's money it's not just sitting around so that's what we're doing this is all part of the game so those are some games that we are involved in at this time uh mike grason says you must know your opponent for our struggle is not against flesh and blood but against the rulers against the powers against the forces of this darkness against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places that's obviously a quote from the Bible Bible and yes 100% there's darkness in the world and we have to fight it you know I I fall victim sometimes to if I talk about something one time I feel like I said it you know okay don't I kind of say that again

but obviously the darkness in the world is something I've talked a lot about and maybe Mike hasn't been listening for that long but I've talked a lot about the evil in the world and and the fact that there is a war going on against evil so yes this is correct it feels again it feels a little bit inappropriate to call the evil of the world and fighting it a game but it is a essentially a game as well. Sometimes it wins a quarter, right? Sometimes it's up at the halftime.

Zach says, why not use the term sport instead of game? Then he says, hell, the Latin word iocus also spelled jokos means joke fun sport. Jocco's joccus series on treating life objectively and with discipline to win with the rules. Okay. Noted. Thank you, Zach. Going deep. Stephen says,

Victor Frankel said if you want success or fame, don't aim at it. They come naturally as a consequence of doing the right thing. How can we win without trying to win? This is actually something I totally agree with. If you focus on doing good, if you focus on supporting other people, if you focus on making a good product, if you focus on providing good service, if you focus on doing good work, If you focus on helping other people, the reward will come. The reward will come.

So I agree with Victor Frankel. I say the same thing in leadership strategy and tactics about getting promoted. You want to get promoted? Don't think about how to get promoted. Just go do awesome work. If you focus on getting promoted, everybody sees that you're focused on getting promoted. And when they see that you're focused on getting promoted, they don't like it. They're like, oh, Echo just wants to get promoted.

That's why he's doing this. Let's undermine him. No. just do the right thing if you do the right thing for the right reasons um as victor frankl said it will come it'll come naturally there's a doctor here dr benjamin says there's only two types of games finite and infinite finite games are played within rules and are played to be one infinite games the rules are played with and played to keep the game going paraphrine from james cars here so we we we

we've talked about this before. The only thing I would say to the doctor here is, I don't know if it's useful to say there's only two types of games, and we talked about this already, but I won't go into it again. There's different degrees between finite and infinite, right? There's different numbers of rules and pliability of rules. And I think it's more important to understand that,

yes, there are finite games at one end of the spectrum, and there's infinite games at the other end of the spectrum. And I think what matters most is that you understand that you're in a game. and the game that you're playing and what you have to play, how you have to either abide by the rules or leave the game or go to a bigger game. But yes, good point, Dr. Benjamin. Jeremy says, how do I express this effectively to middle and high school students? Again, I would paraphrase what Echo and I talked about on these podcasts.

You know, probably turn that into a one page or two page outline. And then, like I said earlier, use examples that they can relate to school, parents, sports, interaction between, you know, high school kids, that kind of stuff. Just use things that they can relate to. Little, you know, job at McDonald's or whatever. You got to play the game. You know, I worked at Wendy's. Got to play the game.

So use things that they can relate to. Someone named Action Ishi. So someone else kind of said it. But what do you do when you need someone else to play the game with you and they don't want to? And this is kind of the whole, this whole series started off with Sarah Armstrong saying, be careful of relying on other people in the game because you might be let down. So control your expectations.

But, you know, there's sometimes you need someone else to help you maneuver. Well, a good way to do this is how can you help them? If I want Echo to do something, how can I help them do it? How can I get Echo engaged? How can I minimize what I need from Echo? So I'm not counting on Echo in some huge way. And by the way, if I'm trying to get Echo to do something, am I doing it for the right reasons?

If I'm just trying to get Echo to do something to benefit me, well, I'm probably not, I shouldn't be doing that. How is it going to help him? And if I'm trying to get Echo to do something that's going to help Echo than Echo is much more likely to do it. So let's keep that in mind. Let's make sure that the game we're playing is beneficial to the people that we're trying to get to play with us

or find out a way to win without them. or find a game that you know you don't need to count on this person now like echo said earlier you know when it comes like a workout buddy if echo's my workout buddy but he's not showing up and he's lazy and he doesn't want to do this to work and I know it's going to be beneficial if he does it but he's not doing it I got to find someone else to play the game with me right I mean I'm going to put a certain amount of effort I'll send you the text in the morning hey bro we're here we're getting ready to hit it where you at but I can't can't can't make that horse drink So that's what I'd pay attention to there.

Jacob says, under what circumstances is a room dedicated to the enemy positions and terrain become invaluable? This was, you know, this is like a terrain model. You know what I'm talking about? The answer is when you almost all the time, but when you can't see the terrain, when you can't just stand on a look out and say, oh, the enemy's over there and we can move over there. When you have multiple friendly and enemy units, you've got multiple things going on,

it's oh it's you know there's just going to be people that vision that understand things visually better than through words so basically if you can anytime you can put things in a visual representation it's going to be helpful now you don't need this a room dedicated okay okay if you're in a massive big operational campaign maybe a room is needed if you have a battalion plus a battalion or more sized operation. Maybe you need some kind of room set up. I know when I did battalion operations with the Army or the Marine Corps, they would pretty much set up a room and we'd put a big map on the floor with tape

and put little building blocks to build, show buildings and all that. Very helpful. But as like a platoon commander, I always, when we were going in the field, I'd carry this little box with like a little ribbon, a couple pieces of ribbon in it, a blue one, a red one, a brown. round one and then some little little squares of wood these are like kind of just shapes little wood shapes paper thin not paper thin but very thin wooden shapes like the thickness of a credit card basically little shapes you're like oh here's a building here's a river here's and then I had a little

again little shapes that were labeled as the different people in a platoon or fire teams in a platoon so you could really quickly in the field break this thing out and I could do a quick terrain model so yes I don't know what this has to do with the game but there we go we answered the question Frank T tank Frank the tank says although I believe that life is a game it's not very popular idea for my wife she feels that make that makes her and the family pieces to be moved around a board how would you address that okay I would not call this she doesn't like it I wouldn't call it a game I would call it a life I would call it a journey I would call it a mission or a voyage or whatever

right hey this is our mission our mission Not I'm playing a game and you're on the no this is our mission we're working together We're a team and guess what on the chess board or on the team on the football field We all got a job we got to work together to win I wouldn't get caught up in the terminology of trying to call this game In fact, I say well what do you think life is and she said I think it's more like a Like a what would what would not be game what could we not turn into a game? I think it's a play Play I think it's a play well yeah Yeah, I agree.

And so let's, you know, we can shape the outcome of the play. And we all got all got roles in the play. And we got to listen to the director and we got to, you know what I'm saying? So whatever, just make it work, bro. Don't get stuck on terminology. Yeah. Because, well, that one's a, that's a, this sticks out to me a little bit because that's true where, you know, we get stuck on terminology. Where, like the game sounds like it's not serious.

Yeah. That's what, that's why it's like, hey, you think life is a game. There was immediate objections to the term game of life. Life is a game is immediate objections of, you know, it's not a game. Right. We addressed that on the first podcast, like out of the gate. Yeah.

And this is the same situation, but we don't want to make our wife mad, you know? Right. You're losing the game if you do that. Yeah. You got a step back. You got scored on for sure. And keep in mind too, though, where they were, even if I say the word triggered, that'll trigger due to terminology, but nonetheless, if your wife is triggered by the word game in reference to life, right?

Like, you know, keep in mind that don't be equally as stuck to your terms. Yeah. Because I made that mistake before where and this wasn't with my wife. It was with my friend that was a girl. Remember, remember Susanna? Yes. The paddler.

Yeah. So we'd hang out and stuff and we'd get into little debates. Whatever. And I don't know. We were talking about like payoffs, right? Where it's like, hey, you wouldn't like, you know the idea of being, uh, selfless. Yeah. is can always be circled around to having a payoff for yourself, right?

Yes. So we're talking about that, that concept, right? Where it's like, hey, can you really find something that's truly selfless, you know? Because you, and I said, you always are getting some sort of a payoff. And then she did not like the word payoff because it sounds like money, you know, like, she was like, no, there's no payoff. There's no payoff. And I was like, no, think about it.

And I kept using the word payoff, not realizing, oh, she didn't like the word payoff. payoff. But if I changed it to something else, which I didn't, by the way. Reward. Yeah, something, even a word. Benif, those all sounds selfish. Pay off, man. But some, or just say, and I didn't say this, by the way, but me being way old now, maybe say something along the lines of, um, we appreciate the greater good or something like that, you know, then, yeah, perfect. But it was saying the exact same thing, you know, but so let me not be a stuck on my word too. If they don't like that word, don't think that.

No, no, no, this is the best word for it. Don't think that. Be like, okay, let me think of it. Like how you said, think of a term or expression. That's a little bit more, more your speed. For sure. While still understanding what I'm talking about. Don't get caught up.

You don't watch out for that. What happens at Eshlam Front? You know, people are like covering moves like a war. Yeah. Well, cool. Just call it teamwork then. Gunfighting. Call it mutually support.

Yeah, we don't care. The other day, you got, you got caught up in that. Just for a second. What was it? train when I said when you said your wife something and I said oh you trained her and you said oh she's not a dog and I was about to be like what object but we had a podcast but think about it train yeah you train your dog but you also train yourself in jiu jitsu you also train yourself in speaking or not yourself but you know that but what you said didn't work for that scenario

no it worked anytime you think of terms in and I don't know maybe it did maybe it didn't but anything well you can go tell my wife then that she's well trained by me and see how that works out for you. You tell me that's a good word for that context, bro. That's the exact thing we're talking. I didn't, I wasn't talking. You're hung up on this shit right now. And a big age about to get you unstuck. Right now you are doing the right thing. You're like, kind of, I mean, technically given the circumstances at this moment, you're doing the right thing. Like, you're like, 100%. And I'm doing the exact thing that I said not to do where it's like, you use, who used trained me? I say train. You said, well, no, not train, she's not a dog, right. Yeah.

I should have just been, okay, yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right. I should have, but I stuck with train. Because I'm like, no, no, no, no, technically it is straight. And train's not a bad, you see what I'm saying? Yeah. Train's not a bad word. Call them the terminology. Yep.

It's good to say, you shrug your shoulders and find a different word. Yep. You know, have that thesaurus at hand. Yeah, hell yeah. John says from the perspective of you and Echo, what do you think allows some people to identify the game at such a young age, late teens, early 20 compared to others. You know what's interesting on this question is I,

my immediate response was I thought to myself, okay, well, taking a step back and detaching, that allows you to see the game, and when you watch and when you observe, that allows you to see the game. Here's what I think is actually the most beneficial. I haven't somebody explained it to you. You know, the amount of comments that we got on this podcast

from people that were between the ages of, you know, 18 and 58, of saying like, damn, I wish I had known this. Yeah. So having somebody explain it to you, I think is the best way to learn it and what's interesting about this is You know how there's some things that get explained to you, but you really have to feel it for yourself Before you believe it This doesn't seem to be like that this is one of those things where people go yeah, you know that's actually right Yeah, that makes sense like they see it

It's almost like the answer is right there and then as soon as they it gets revealed they go oh yeah, that's correct So that's what I think I think yes detaching is a good way to see it taking a step back and and watching and observing us are all good, but having someone explain it to you when some, you know, salty old chief says, hey, this is just a game, boy. You're like, all right, cool. So those are my answers there. Tamir says two, great two podcasts, still not fully clear. Most people want the same games. Make good money via good job, be healthy, have a good family, have freedom. How does knowing the game help with this? Why do, why do most people struggle? Well, it's because even though people want to make good money, they want a good job, they want to be healthy.

When they don't, when they just see those things as places that they want to be, it's like if you pulled up a computer and said, you know, want to go to a good ski mountain. And it just showed you a picture of a good ski mountain. Everybody, if you ski, you want to go there. Okay, cool. I want to go there. But that doesn't help you at all. You don't know what the name of it is. You don't know.

So that's what happens. People, of course I want to go to a good ski area, but I don't know how to get there. I don't know how much it costs. I don't know what it takes to get there. I don't know where I'm going to stay when I'm there, all those things. So when you look at making money, look, you just see, if I showed you a bank account, hey, ECHO, here's a bank account with a million dollars in it. You're like, hell yeah, I want that.

Okay, cool. Later. I didn't help you at all. If I say, okay, here's what you got to do. Here's some things to become financially secure. You want to invest your money in this way. You want to save this type of money. You want to not waste your money on these things over here.

Like I start those are the rules. All of a sudden you see it as a game. Same thing with relationships. Oh, you want to marry someone that you have a good temperament that compliments each other. Like all those things. So there's rules to these games and when people don't see it as a game and they only see these goals. See people don't, he says people want the same game.

No, they want the same rewards. Everybody wants a lot of money. Everybody wants a good job. Everybody wants to be healthy. Everybody wants a good family. Everyone wants freedom. Those aren't the games. are the rewards of the games.

When you realize it's a game, that's when you start putting structure around it. That's when you start figuring out what the rules are and how you can move forward. So that's my answer, Tamir. And that's not to mention that these things that he listed look different for everybody. That is true. So yeah, if you shine a light on the whole game as it exists

and that you're a player in that game, you can make your specific moves based on what these things look like for you. We got a few more here. Benjamin Miller how have you used the game to further or begin your entrepreneurial endeavors again what we just answered you you have an entrepreneurial idea so you have an objective but then what are the rules what is the structure of that game right oh I want to sell tea okay well guess what do I just like sit there and think about it no you figure out okay what's the game here there's what are the there's different games you play there's an Amazon game right

There's direct-to-consumer. There's retail game. All those are different games, by the way. What are the rules on those games? What are the rules in retail? What are the rules on Amazon? What are the rules on direct-to-consumer? Those are all things you've got to figure out.

So when you start to say, okay, here's the game that we're going to play. We're going to sell T. Okay, cool. What do we have to do? How much do we need to produce? Okay. What are the avenues we can sell it? Okay.

So, yes, figuring out the rules, figuring out the objectives, figuring out what the competition is. is seeing them and understanding them, putting them into a game is going to make it easier for you. There's an anonymous question. Doesn't viewing life as a game devalue it make you miss the deeper meaning? Yes. And again, we address this out of the gate.

Depends on the definition of the game of game that you use. So go back and listen to those first couple podcasts. We specifically talked about the fact that if you just use the term game like Tick, Tacto and Monopoly and Candy Land. Yeah. And that's what life is. It's devaluing it. But that's not what we're talking about.

We're talking about the game as something with structure, something with rules, something with objectives, something that other people are playing. That's what we're talking about. Like the deepest meaning of game is when we use this. I bet that person just saw the little Twitter picture that I put up that said life is a game and said like, oh, you're deviant. Didn't actually listen to the podcast. So someone said the knickening. Life is life.

One way to look at it as if it were a game. Make no mistake. It's not there are consequences again. This is the same thing if you listen to the podcast You'll realize that this is just not what we were talking about Dean says choosing what games you play is a liberating thought But what about the games you don't have a choice to plan could failing to recognize you are playing certain games be a costly blind spot if failures in these areas are being ignored basic needs aside Example text skills yes this is 100% right anytime you're failing to recognize that you're in a game You're not going to be playing that game correctly and you stand to lose and in some cases you stand to lose a lot So so please be careful that Trent says how do you decide if you're in the wrong game and if you think you're in the wrong game? What do you do? I'm an attorney that's been practicing for one and a half years can't figure out if I actually hate it or I'm just getting used to it

All right. So let's detach Let's think about the return on investment. This is another one of those things where, like, you know, that first, I don't know much about being a lawyer. But I guarantee when you first start practicing, it takes you a lot longer to prepare for a case because you don't know what you're doing and you don't have any assistance yet. And so you're, you know, for you to prepare for court tomorrow, it takes you nine hours today. You get a little bit more experience. You're like, oh, yeah, I've done a case like this before.

My assistant's going to handle that. And all of a sudden it takes you two hours and you can go to Jiujitsu. Sure. which which is kind of what your boss is saying like you're just getting used to it now I could be wrong and the life of the lawyer is just you know 14 hour days every day no jiu jitza no working out sitting in an office which sucks so I would detach I would look at the return on investment right because that's another thing is used to be like a lawyer if you were a lawyer you were going to make a shit ton of money until there was 8 million until everyone thought that and

And then there's 8 million lawyers. I don't know how many lawyers there are, but there's a lot of lawyers. There's high supply, which means demand is lower, which means you can, it's harder to get those really good paying gigs if you're a lawyer. You can't and you can't get great gigs as a lawyer. One thing I know about lawyers that I know that are good lawyers, they love it. They love it. They love like looking at the case and figuring out and figure ways to maneuver and looking at a, contract where they love it they love doing it okay I got something for you okay we're

looking at this deal boom and they love it so if I'm a little nervous when you say that you've been doing this and you kind of hate it right like I was in the SEAL teams you were yeah yeah and you know if someone doesn't like humpin with a rock on if that if you don't like if in fact let me if if you hate that it's probably not a good job for you know what I'm saying I do know like I mean that is like part of your job is to put a freaking heavy rucksack on and hump yeah through the desert through the woods up the mountain whatever it sucks and if you hate it probably not a great job so when you're a lawyer and you got to look through documents and you got to pull up old precedences from the freaking

whatever and you You don't love doing that. You don't love that little good gratification that you get when you pull a maneuver on the, on the other council. Yeah. You know? Yeah. That can be, it's probably not a great job for you.

If you're one of those people that watched, like, law shows, right? Yeah. And you loved watching those cases come together and all that stuff. Sure. And then you get to do that. Seems like you'd be into it. Yeah. But if you're like a year and a half into you, like a freak.

can hate this I think I hate this yeah I'm just saying bro now listen I would still get good enough at it that that you start to get some momentum right we're like okay I can prepare these cases faster now and I got my assistant to help me out and you you can you you start going okay now that I have an of you know assistant helping me and I know what I'm doing I got a steady stream of clients I'm setting up my days better And I hate this. Then it's time to do some strategic thinking, figure out what, again, going back to figuring out what, not just what your values are, but what you actually value.

Because there's some people, you know what there's some people that, um, they want to be like leader of the law world, right? That's what they want to be. They want to be the justice of the Supreme court. Like they want to do that stuff. They're into it, man. They love being in that ecosystem. They love going to the country club and everyone knows it's freaking echo Charles.

You know, he's got a big case. You know, there's people that love that. Yeah, yeah. There's people that like, I'm a lawyer. Yeah. So if that's where you're at, cool. If you that's what you value, cool. If you're doing it for the money and you hate it, I'm going to say you might want to try

and figure out some kind of an exit strategy over the next few years. I won't rush anything. Don't get crazy, but start trying to figure something else out. You obviously got skills. You're a lawyer. You can write, you can read, you're good at interacting with people. You could do a lot of different things. But let's figure, let's, let's, um, what would be a good way of saying this?

I was going to say finish the meal before you decide if you don't like it or not. But maybe it's more like, let's get good enough at it and make sure we spend enough time in it to do a real assessment. Like driving a car, I guess. You know, you might get in a car and you're like, you know, you go to start the car and the key's not, It doesn't even have a key anymore, by the way. It's got like a button, and the button's not where you think it is. And so you're like, man, I don't like this car. Or you know, you turn to go to turn on the heat.

And it's like, where's the button? Right. Or when you switch from Apple to Mac or Mac to Apple. And you're like, oh, this freaking Apple sucks. Or this Microsoft sucks. In Apple, you just drag the file over. Well, here you just right click it. You know what I mean?

So you got to do it for long enough that you actually can do a real assessment. and you're not just frustrated about the thing. You mentioned the finishing the meal thing. So where in like I say this. That's a bad example because like for me, I can tell. I don't need to finish the meal bro.

I take one bite and I'm like this sucks. Yeah, I'm out. But I mean if you shift the analysis. Matter of fact, if I smell it. I'm kind of like. You just know. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, it makes it. Well, then again, I don't know, Parmesan cheese smells real bad, but tastes real good. Does it? small bad yeah it's a small palmage anyway so thing like this all I think anyway according to all the some of some not a lot of some of the lawyers that I've known and heard from people who don't like it thought they did or whatever it's like uh consider you know crab you

you don't eat seafood though no okay so crab right king crab or whatever colossal king crab's good if you like it it's really good so it's a good idea well let's have crab for dinner right bring home they serve the crab it's like the crab it's like the The crab has shells. For every crab leg, you got to take off the shell. And that's a pain in the ass. Unless you know the technique. And it's like, or you expected that and you know or whatever.

But if you're not expecting all that, you're like, probably, it's not even worth it. Like all I saw was the delicious crab on the commercial, you know. And then now the reality of it, there's all this freaking work involved in it that I wasn't ready for. I wasn't anticipating. And the lawyer thing is the same thing where it's like, bro, I wasn't anticipating 12 hours a day, seven days ago. I wasn't anticipating all this. And only I thought I was going to be freaking a few good men, Tom Cruise, freaking you can't handle the truth, all this stuff.

Meanwhile, like literally 99.9% of my time is spent in office reading stuff. Yeah. Going back to the books that I studied in law school or whatever, coming back to the case and the, it's all paperwork. Like the whole thing is this paperwork. I didn't sign up for this, just like the crab shells. Right. No, we had to crack every single shell and then meticulously get the crab meat out.

Then you can have a small little morsel of crab. But let's face it. There's some people that kind of get into that crab thing and they do it well. Exactly right. You know, up in Maine, people like showing you how to do the lobster right. Like, oh, you want to take the claw and break it over here. And they're fired up about that. Agree.

And that's why I use the crab because I'm into that, the technique to get the crab out where you can get it out without like breaking it apart. Like there's technique to that and there's a payoff to that too. And you kind of enjoy that little, that little game. It's kind of like a little fun game. Exactly right. And if you knew that that's involved in the whole process, it's like you're not surprised. are blindsided by it. So it's like, yeah, you're embracing.

Boom, I love crab. Hell yeah, crab for dinner tonight. Just like some people are like, hell yeah, lawyer all day. You can name this podcast, crab for dinner tonight. Maybe I will. All right, last question.

And this will close out the game for now. It says, it's from Nick. How do you handle losing the game? For example, didn't get promotion. Company didn't take off. Bad investment. Does your game change?

I think we all know they answer to this one didn't get the promotion company didn't go the way I wanted it to made a bad investment good what did I learn and what am I gonna do going forward I just got better at the game I just got better at the game didn't get promoted cool I just got better because now I can figure out why I didn't get promoted company didn't take off cool I learned some something about how and why this went down and I won't make that mistake again. Bad investment?

Great. Great. Now I know to be a little bit more methodical. So that's what I'm doing when I lose a game. And that's that. For now, on the game. Man, that went a lot.

There's four podcasts about the game. That's a lot. Went deep. It's important, though. I wouldn't look at these, like, I would look at them, what he's talking about anyway is setbacks more so than losing the game you know like not getting a promotion in the in the in the whole game of life yeah that's a that's a that's a second point you got

scored on yeah and actually even yeah maybe if you got fired and now you have to find a new career I think that's like getting scored on or whatever you got not just fired but you got fired and you like got disbarred from that industry yeah that's like you got scored on but you can come back and you can totally be a winner well it depends on one game too because in a basketball game you get scored on it's not that big a deal yeah and you're Yeah. Football, it's a little bit. Soccer, it's a big-ass deal.

Yeah, it's huge deal, bro. Huge, yeah, it's true. So look at it as in terms of like, you know, man, this is a life in jujuts is a really good one like that. Weightlifting is a really good example of that where it's like, probably you're going to take these little small Ls like in the whole, in the whole grand scheme of things, probably every single day you're losing. But then for every step back, it's like, man, if you can, and you got to actively do this,

where you got to, if you can make, take that one step back into like a step and a half forward. Now you know. You know what that took. to lose. You know what you did right, wrong, hopefully, if you're pursuing it. And boom, now you can make that step forward next time you get challenged with whatever challenges that devastated you before or whatever. Now you're ready for that. You don't fall into that little pitfall and keep moving forward. But yeah, I wouldn't look at it as like, I lost. Yeah. A lot,

like losing the game of life is like if you'd be considered by your general community as a loser. So that's a good little test there. Yeah. Which are not. If you didn't get promoted or you didn't do great on a freaking investment no factor all right with that um for everybody if you want to want to get the physical game going let's go jaco fuel joccofuel dot com uh you know we got the the ready to drink moak which i had one got done training which you did not participate in by the way no not that was why not what's funny is like i knew you can ask me this funny about it what it's interesting did you get a little bit disappointed when you saw that it was kind of some good, real good training that you missed? Yeah. So here, yeah, in the moment. So a lot of the time,

you're like, oh, let's go training. I'm like, the chance of me really going, because I'm already, like, I'm on this path. Like, I have hard time. And you know this about me. We have hard time shifting my mental, like, momentum, you know? So it's like, bro, why you're asking me about training right now? I'm really focused on this thing. So it's not like I'm not going to go, but right now I'm not going to make the decision to go or not. So now when tomorrow comes to train, it's kind of like it's up in the air. And don't let me get started on something. that day so whatever but this time i was like you're like oh training before and i was like oh yeah freak yeah because i missed a lot of training i see you guys take pictures you know the

phone mo you ever get that pictures of dean and guys they trained all good and they're like all right didn't make it anyway and i seen keene and guys were starting to come too i was like oh man okay so tomorrow i'm gonna go i'm gonna go like that's the plan and then i oh i got caught up late at night last night because i tried to let you know early enough you did the right thing He totally did the right thing. And then, yeah, I got caught up late at night doing some stuff. And I made the decision last night. Like, oh, man, I don't know if I'm going to go train.

If I'm going to continue on this bath last night, I mean, which I did. When I woke up, I was like, I'm not training at all. But I did feel it when I came in and seen you guys, you know, the post-training scene. Yeah. Everyone's all sweaty, sweat on the ground. He's talking one or two guys might be. They're not breathing hard, but you can tell they were just breathing hard. You know, it's like a vibe, you know.

And then I walk out there on the mat just say hi to everybody and I'm wearing my regular clothes You know like you know that feeling right everyone trained except for me yeah yeah I felt it I kind of felt it more than I usually do today So Dave was there Greg train Sloan was there meha's there yeah wait Dave Dave Dave Dave yeah yeah that's Youngworth yeah oh for real oh I didn't even see him okay Greg train was here too Greg train was oh man yeah yeah that's brutal who else yeah Meeha, Keenan, Sloan, Salon, Victor, Andy Burke.

Andy Burke. See, we had a crew, bro. Where were you at? It hurt. It hurt. So yeah, well, actually, the good news, that might be, that is probably a good catalyst to,

boom, kind of nudge me back into the scene, you know? Because like I said before, well, press, now all, like, for a few times, like the past, my training has been all, like day of, like, oh, shoot, training's going on right now.

If I leave right now, I can get it, and then I'll go. It won't be like, okay, tomorrow my schedule is this, this, I'm a train. It's never been that. I mean, it hasn't been that for a while. Maybe it'll change.

So, when I got done training. Sure. Yes. And by the way, I have not eaten today other than I had some almonds. So what time is it right now? I don't know. But it's in the, it's, we're closer to dinner than we are to lunch. Yeah.

We'll say that. And I haven't eaten today. So I got done. You know, I lifted this morning. And then he came here, trained. And I haven't eaten. So I, as soon as I was done. And I was like I got to get that little mulk the thing that's great too you get 30 grams of just good clean protein that's going straight to your

Recovery 30 it's 30 grams of just luscious It is you can kind of feel it you know I know it's like placebo effect Yeah, but I kind of feel it when I drink and I'm like yeah You can come back your body is not going catabolic yeah I would think that if you're if you're working out then training and still not eating yet and when you do eat I would think you could feel it there I'm sure there's all kinds of biological

indicators remember I was talking earlier about like there was a company that wanted me to work with them and they made something that was like addictive and bad for you yeah but we made something it's a little bit the same it's addictive but it's good for you because that's the thing with the RTD it's good to have them you just get them and have them because it's such a nice thing to be able to satisfy your hunger and provide good fuel for rebuilding and have something that tastes freaking delicious. Yep.

Well, you know, the- Shouldn't this be a Nobel Prize scenario? Honestly? Honestly, shouldn't that be a Nobel Prize? Is there a Nobel Prize for food? Well, you know, I don't know. And I don't know the criteria. Or just mankind. Just for mankind.

Yeah, yeah. Hey, I don't know. You might have something. The Mulk. Yeah. The Mold, Nobel Prize. A Nobel Prize for Molk. Yeah.

Yeah. Makes sense. So check it out, joccofuel.com. You can get that. You get the joint war. Look, you're going to need the joint warfare. Yeah. At a certain point in your life, you're going to need the joint warfare.

We got a lot. Well, it's cool. The way you know joint warfare is good is the number of subscribers to joint warfare. Yeah. Like, if you subscribe. People are like, yeah, I need that. Yeah. I need that.

Same thing with Supercryl. You're going to need that. So jocofuel.com, you can get it there. You can also get the drinks at Wawa. By the way, you might have to look a little bit harder at Wawa for the drinks because there's, you know, that shelf is filled up a little bit. So get in there. Have a look. Don't go.

Don't get something that they put right in front of your face and then they want like they want you to drink something that's bad for you. Yeah. Don't do that. You got to work a little bit. Look around. Find the go and drink something that's freaking good for you. Something that's not going to give you type two diabetes. But you know what that reminds me of right there that thing you just said you're doing Google search

It's a regular Google search up on whatever yes I've done a Google search before yes sir yes I understand and then but the first one to sometimes three results have a little little teeny tiny word next to it says sponsored or ad or whatever right it's like that's the first ones you see right You kind of got to skip those because the interests aren't in a line with you Yeah, I'm saying they paid money for they paid money to get in front of your eyes or whatever it's not that's not that's that it's the most relevant so technically you got to skip that the conflict of interest ones and go to the most relevant from what or with what you're looking for yeah that's the go right there at the shelves on the shelf that's the go on the shelves uh that's you know when you go on a while you've got to just just just look around a little bit

uh vitamin shop by the way greens greens jaco greens you know we sell a lot of product right of all kinds our number one thing There's greens. Really? Yes, Jocko Greens. Because people realized as soon as you try and be like, oh, greens can taste good. Yeah. They don't have to taste like dirt and mud.

Yeah, yeah. And they can actually have better ingredients and can be cheaper. What's funny. How is that? Right, man. I'll tell you how. When you do it right. You do it right.

That's literally what my mom told me. The part was like, oh, greens don't have to taste like. Like these actually tastes good. And she's a green percent. Like she's down for the greens. Yeah, yeah. Like she knows. She already accept the whole thing that, hey, greens taste like ground.

That's all. That's cool. We'll mix it in a nice smoothie or something like this. So we'll just power through it. Yeah, nope. Not anymore. And she was like, oh, I was impressed. I was like, yeah.

So check out the greens. They actually taste good. Obviously, they're good for you. Like, you can, let's face it. We're not rolling back to the house after training being like, oh, I really want to get some broccoli. No, typically, don't. Where's that wheat grass?

Like, you're not doing that, right? It's not happening. I'm sorry, it's not. And what's cool about these greens are, you know what I've been doing lately? Lately I've been taking the greens and having it as like, do you know what?

This is coming from my wife. Do you know what a port is? It's a kind of wine. Wine, yeah, port. Yeah, it's a port way. You know, my wife, like, I'm from America, bro. I'm uncultured.

She's from England. She's like, you know, she's way more cultured than me. But, you know, she would be like, oh, maybe after a dinner, I'll get to port. Right? I'm like, well, this is when I was, you know,

25 my owing you like to pull it's a civil wine that you have after dinner and I was like okay so for me greens is like a port like you have you eat dinner and you want that little nice something just to kind of put you in the mo in the in the zone you get you green it's like a port wine right taste good if you say so and I can wait wait what are you going to say it like that why you're going to say it like I'm I'm not right you know what I'm right you know what's really in your own way Bray, you are right, Jocco. Do you not agree with me? I can't put it this way.

It's more so than I agree or disagree. I can't not agree with you. Okay. There's a, I think the reason I thought, if you were seeing a port wine, they look like they're thicker. Yeah, yeah. Am I right?

Yeah, it's like a good thing. So that's what the greens are like. Yeah. The greens are like a, like, and port is sweeter. Yeah. Our greens are sweeter. They're sweeting with monk fruit.

Like, it's a real thing, bro. Yeah, you might have something there. So let me just give you some advice. And by the way, then you go to sleep. and that all that goodness is just rolling through your body as we're sleeping at night just rebuilding you into a freaking monster You might have a point you might be on to something. I will tell you that Dude. So yeah do you drink it in like the port the glass

I might do that to that never done that yet I'm gonna get a port glass there you go all right We're gonna make jaco pork glasses for greens all right there you go report I'm making them America Boom You can get this stuff military commissaries vitamin shop hannah firds dash stores and Mary In Maryland, Wakefern, Shoprite, Circle K, H.E.B. Thank you. Texas, my people. Freaking H.E.B. is stoked.

Meyer up there in the Midwest, good to go. So check all those out. Joccofuel.com. We got you. Origin USA. I just posted a little thing today because we made 12,000 pieces last week in the various factories. Damn. When Pete and I show hands, like, let's work together.

Yeah. We were, I think we had 12 employees. We might have even had eight employees when we originally shook hands. And we were making like 120 or 150, like, Jiu-Jitsu geese. Right, right. A week. Yeah. Damn.

Think about 12,000. And by the way, this is like, this is the ramp up. This is the ramp up. So origin, USA.com. All the stuff is made in America. the best quality we got hunkier jiu jitsu gear geese rash guard jeans delta 68's all day all day uh boots joggers we got short we got everything course in usa.com you're gonna need a ghee you need a rash guard we got the the the comfort fit rash guards yeah which are like a little bit more

chill more loose like a dry finish a little bit more like a dry finish so i normally don't like I was just a little bit tight. You know what I mean? You know when I used to compete a lot in that Jiu-Jitsu? Sure. I had a the shirt that I wore a Guinness shirt. That's what I would compete in. That was my most low pro.

Yeah. Like people would just be like, who is it? Because everyone else be wearing some shirt. Hell yeah. The gear. I'd be wearing a Guinness shirt. Yeah, that is a low-brose. He'd compete in like a bear vans, like a vans t-shirt.

Yeah, like a bigger one too. Yeah, like all loose. Just a t-shirt. Yeah, just a t-shirt and a pair of vans shorts. Yeah. That's what he was doing. Because people are unsuspect. Like, who's this guy?

Well, he thinks he's going to come out here and do something to me. Yeah. And then they get triangled. Yeah. Or they get footlocked. Yeah. So there you go. OriginUSA.com.

Yep. Also, jocko store.com. Jock was the store. Oh, okay. It's called Jock store. Anyway, hey, look, we're playing this game. We're in this game. We're on the path on this game.

That's how you're going to improve and increase the chances of you being successful in this game. If you're on the path. path. You're going to represent while you're on that path. That's where you can get your discipline equals freedom. Shirts, hats, hoodies, that kind of stuff. Better than merch, by the way. Merch is just, you know, here throw this on this shirt.

No, it's not. It's like very wearable. A lot of people report back and say, hey, this, this not only has good, good stuff on it or whatever, but it's the best fitting clothes that I have. True. Jocco.com. We also have the shirt locker, which is subscription service. This is where you get a new shirt every month.

Different, different designs, but still on the path. And you're representing big time. So a lot of people have been on that one and report good feedback on that one. So check it out if you like Jocco store. Subscribe to the podcast. Subscribe to jocco underground.com. Subscribe to the YouTube channel. Subscribe to or go get psychological warfare.

Check out Flipside Canvas. My brother, Dakota Meyer, got making cool stuff to hang on your wall. Flipside Canvas.com. Got a bunch of books. You know what the books are. Go and check those books out. We're renting a bunch of them Eschlon Front

Leadership Consultancy We solve problems through leadership Go to Eshlonfront.com If you want to come to any of our events We got Orlando, Florida the muster You just made a video today Came out Yes, sir

April 3rd through the 5th And then we're doing Dallas, Texas October 18th through the 20th We also got a bunch of other things We do FTX, we got council We got Battlefield Next battlefield is March 21st and the 23rd, but it's sold out.

So look for the next thing we're going to do after that. That's all of that. Eschlonfront.com. We also have our online training program. I talked about that today. Extreme Ownership Academy. Go to Extreme Ownership.com. Take courses.

Ask questions. Get coached. Get advice. Learn how to take ownership of your freaking life there. Extreme Ownership.com. If you want to help service members active and retired, you want to help their families, you want help Gold Star families.

Check out Mark Lee's. mom mama lee she's got a charity organization and if you want to donate or you want to get involved go to america's mighty warriors dot org and also we got heroes and horses dot org micah fink taken right where's he doing right now oh he just shot a bear with a bone arrow and he's skinning it as he's riding his horse through the wilderness by himself or no he's not by himself oh no he's got some veterans with him and they're all out there finding the path So there you go. Heroes and Horses.org. And if you want to connect with us on the interwebs, we're on there.

Echoes at Echo Charles. I'm at Jocco Willink. Obviously, please just watch out for the algorithm. And thanks to the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines that are out there playing the game, the big game to keep us safe. Thank you for your continued service. And the same thing for our police and law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service, and all first responders. Thank you for protecting us here at home.

And to everyone else out there, just remember to take a step back. Take a step back. Look at what's happening. And you're going to see there's a framework. There's a framework to a game that is being played. And you're probably going to be able to see three, four, five, five. them figure out what those that framework is figure out what the rules are figure out what the objectives are and then play the game and until next time Zekko and jocco