Jocko Podcast - 375: There Will Be Ups and Downs, Wins and Losses. Do Your Best. With Force Recon Marine, Chad Robichaux

Episode Date: March 1, 2023

Mighty Oaks President & Founder, USMC Force Recon Veteran, Best Selling Author, Pro MMA Champion.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko Podcast number 375 with Echo Charles and me, Jocco Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. When Aziz and I reached the hill's peak, kids playing on the ladders and diving platforms scattered. As we neared the pool, the only sound other than our footsteps came from the gusting wind. Amid the eerie quiet, I noticed a cable suspended from one of the middle diving platforms, about seven and a half meters above the pool. the cable made of steel barely swayed in the wind it ended in a slip-knock noose i've witnessed many public executions here aziz said some were hanged some were thrown off the towers like

garbage and died on the concrete floor and not always immediately after the Soviets left Afghanistan following nine years of war the difficulty of pumping water up to the top of the hill to fill the pool wasn't worth the effort for a nation with little interest in training athletes for international competition when the Taliban seized control of Afghanistan they found a use for the empty pool aziz and i descended the ladder into the pool's deep end the width spanned 25 meters the wall was riddled with bullet holes the size of 7662 bullets they were head high of a person on their knees and there had to be thousands of holes I crossed to the shallow end, stepping around puddles left by the latest rain and observed the same pattern of bullet holes in that wall.

They were the height of the head of a kneeling child. I pulled my leatherman tool from my pants pocket. With the pointed pliers, I dug into a few of the holes. I removed two bullet jacket remains and looked down at them in my hand. Two symbols of the Taliban's hatred of innocent people Of unimaginable evil I slid the jacket remains into my pocket I didn't want to forget the anger I felt standing next to those bullet holes

Aziz knew this place would show me why his family was so caught up in our presidential election My home country was the land of the free Theirs was now becoming one They needed us to help bring that free to completion for them and for future generations of Afghans. I returned to that pool, the killing pool, I came to call it, numerous times during my deployments. I would sit in the breeze and the quiet and the eerieness and stare at that steel cable and the bullet holes. I imagined the faces of innocent people, of the women and kids especially killed there only because they tasted freedom.

and discovered a joy so rewarding that they didn't want to go back to their old lives of oppression. They couldn't go back no matter the cost. And that right there is an excerpt from the opening of a book. The book is called Saving Aziz. And it's written by Chad Robichot. And Chad is a former Force Recon Marine who also served as a military contractor. and in those roles he deployed to Afghanistan eight times. He was eventually diagnosed with PTSD,

which ended his deployments overseas until years later during the American withdrawal from Afghanistan. His former interpreter, Aziz, who you just heard about, his friend, his brother in arms, needed to be saved from the Taliban. And when that happened, Chad had to go again into an unstable environment to do the right thing to save his friend and save many others. And it's an honor to have Chad with us here tonight to share his story. Chad, thanks for coming down, man.

Man, thanks so much for having me on. Let's need to read that. I felt chills. I mean, I wrote it, but just hearing you read it, just like, I'm picturing myself, like, with the leatherman tool digging in that wall. Yeah. I remember. I know we've been trying to do this podcast for a long time. You know, you're a jiu-git-suy guy.

I'm a jihitsu guy. I know actually you run an organization called The Mighty Oaks, and there's been a few times I'm friends with Matt. There's been a couple times where I've had to utilize you guys. I've called you guys when I got, people would reach out to me that were having serious issues, and I've reached out to Matt a few times to get support. So appreciate that, and we'll get into that later. Yeah.

But I'm glad I finally got you down here, man. I'm glad to fly and be here. We were talking earlier. It's always, you know, you wait until the right time, and I feel like right now is the right time anyway, so I'm super happy to be here today. Right on, man. Let's, before we jump into the book,

let's start at the beginning, how you became, how you became Chad Robes Show. Am I saying that right? Robes Show? Yeah, you are. Yeah, you got it. Cool, cool. Good guess.

Got to come out. Got to come all the way to San Diego to get somebody to say Robes Show right. So where are you born? I was born in Southern Louisiana. A good Robo show. So there's a Robo Show name, right? Yeah, I'm going to say Southern Louisiana, I mean, like mud between your toes, swamps,

bayous. If you've seen swamp people, that's my family. So, yeah, that's... And is that where you grew up to? That's where I grew up. I grew up in a town called Raceland, Louisiana, really small town. And runs on... The whole town's built in this one bayou called Bayouche, which runs down to the golf.

And what are people doing there for a living? Mostly fishing, forming, farming, and fishing. shrimping. So my grandfather on one side bailed hay and just mowed mowed pastures and bailed hay. My grandfather on the other side was a commercial catfisherman since he was a boy. And so all of my family's first jobs were skinning catfish in a catfish market. My first job was skinning catfish. I remember being, you know, going out and trying to, me and my cousins doubling up on a, on a bale of a 50-pound bale of hay on one side of the family. And then the other side was a was kidding catfish so so what did your mom and dad do for a living so my dad uh so my mom

was a florist and my dad was uh he was a he was a marine and but he ended up being in working in oil field so my uh my family actually has 84 years of service and right now i guess there's a book out that i hadn't tracked down yet of fred robeasho who is my uh uncle my my grandfather's brother who served in World War II as infantrymen in the Army and as this book out that I'm trying to track down. So if anybody knows it, let me know. But yeah, so my grand, so World War II, Korea, my father was the first Marine in our family, served as infantrymen in Vietnam.

And then myself and both my sons and Marines. So long history of military in our family. So when you were growing up, was your dad around when you were growing up? Yeah. Well, they got divorced when I was seven. And then he was in and out of my life. I lived back and forth with my mom and my dad and my grandparents. So I lived a pretty dysfunctional kind of childhood bouncing back and forth.

My father never got help after Vietnam. In fact, my father joined the Marine Corps. If people look at the Vietnam draft, like the Marine Corps didn't draft people. You had to volunteer for the Marine Corps. So my father was driving to high school and goofing off with his best friend in a passenger seat and hit the back of a garbage truck on the way to school, kills his best friend, and then goes to the Marine Corps recruiting office

and joins the Marine Corps to go to Vietnam. And so that's how my dad went into the Marine Corps, probably already a pretty broken person, had those experiences of Vietnam, never got help. And so a lot of alcohol, women, a lot of physical violence, me and my brother that were the kind of subjects of that physical abuse. I remember him beating my mom,

watching him beat my stepmom eventually, but it was always targeted on me and my brother. He was a year older than me. And so part of joining the military was kind of weird, this paradox of wanting to follow my dad's footsteps, but also wanting to use that as a way to escape from the childhood that I lived in. And I remember I grew up in martial arts, so lifelong athlete started when I was five years old in judo and traditional jih Tjitsu. So my brother and I were like really close through that. We bonded through that.

And I remember we were about 13 and 14 years old and we were always playing into swamps and bayous. and playing military and we were like, we could join the military one day and escape, like get a fresh star, escape this lifestyle. And we were watching them. You probably remember this. This was like,

so I would have been, this would have been like 19, like, late 80s. There was this Navy SEAL video of these guys down on the Strand, and they were like, they like rated the Strand. Oh yeah, the recruiting video.

It's a recruiting video called Be Someone Special. Yeah, that's it. Have you seen it in the last 20 years? No, but I bet it's looks really, It's so absolutely terrible. It captured me. It's 100%. Yeah, I was like, we've seen that video and we were like,

and then I remember there was this picture of this Navy seal. He's coming out of the water. He's got a booty hat on, seaweed hanging off him, 2080s on his back and M16. And I'm like, I want to do that, but I don't want to join the Navy. And, you know, it was the one thing was, I think it was my dad.

The one thing, my dad was always just like, angry, dysfunctional human being, but the one thing that always made him proud and happy was the fact that he's the United States Marine. And I was like, if that can make that guy happy, I want a piece of that. And so I started, there was these books like a man with green faces. I started reading these Vietnam books.

And then I had found these books from a third recon and third force recond of Vietnam. And I was reading those books. And just became infatuated, becoming a recon Marine. So 13, my brother's 14. We start training. And about a year into that, my brother was shot and killed. And it was devastating. How was he shot and killed?

He was, so we had a broken family. So he had another brother that was 11 from the other side of the family. They got an argument. My brother had a fire poker and was trying to knock a gun out of his hand. He had a, the other kid, he's 11 years old, had a 20 gauge pointed at him. And when he, either intentionally or unintentionally, I don't know, but point blank range with 20 gauge shotgun to chest. And he died instantly. So he was on the phone.

So someone heard it all on the phone. He was holding the phone and had a fire poker. And this is when you're 13 years old? Oh, it was 14 when this happened. Okay. Yeah, so we were, you know, when we were all, you know, that 13 to 14 years old, that's when we started running and we were swimming, uh, watching those videos. And, uh, and we, uh, you know, for me, that was like, closest person in my life at that time. So I went into a real deep isolation. My father, my stepmother, who was the biological mother, my brother couldn't handle the loss of her son. She went moved back with her parents. My father moved to Africa and oil fuel job. He didn't want to deal with her. And, uh, I had a 20-year-old sister. And so the two of us, By the time I was right about 15 years old, I found myself living alone with my sister trying to work. I was working on roofing.

I was putting shingles on houses and I was trying to go to high school at the same time. And when I was 17 years old, I knew I probably wasn't a graduate high school. And I went to a Marine Corps recruiter named Staff Sergeant Ronald Brown. I still remember his name almost 30 years later. I mean, most people remember their recruiter's name because they hate them. I'm just thankful to this dude. I mean, he, he, he, I told him my situation. I was just remember being real transparent with him about what my life was like

and how I wanted to go to Marine Corps. And he helped me get into Marine Corps without even a high school diploma. I wasn't going to graduate high school. What year was this? And how old are you? I'm 17 at the time. Did you, so you said you had, you been doing judo and traditional, did you wrestle too? to the rest of because we didn't have enough people for our team. And it was mostly people from our judo club

that was trying to put a wrestling team together at a high school. We just couldn't get South Louisiana, couldn't get enough people together. But this, okay, I just wanted to catch that little detail because I know, you know, like I said, you're a jiu-gizs guy, I'm a jih Tjitigai, you end up fighting all this stuff. So I just wanted to catch where that started. So you go to the Marine Corps recruiter. God bless the Marine Corps.

And for every, you know, like you said, man, for all these guys that get, you know, screwed over by the recruiter, Occasionally that recruiter is a lifesaver for somebody. Yeah. And the Marine Corps is a lifesaver for you. Who knows where my life would be right now? I mean, I mean, I wasn't heading the right good trajectory.

I wasn't like doing drugs or anything like that. I was still like very disciplined and training in martial arts. I was running like 50, 60 miles a week, a week. So I was running a lot and I'd go swim. I was swimming. So I was still, I was doing the right things, but like academically in school, I was like failing. I was, you know, I was, I was not going to graduate high school. So this guy put me on an infantry contract.

There wasn't recon contracts back then. And, and I made them promise that I get my GED when I finished infantry school. And I went through boot camp, went through infantry school. How was it? So you show up to boot camp. Yeah. You're 17 years old. Are you 17 when you go to boot camp?

17 when I go to boot camp. That's freaking. My 18th birthday was right here, right here down across the street, whatever. Yeah. So is it a shock to your system? Or you just totally pumped for it. I was totally pumped for it. I mean, it was something I had thought about, obviously, for a long time.

And I remember just being like, it's weird how you could remember certain things. But I remember like standing, like literally standing on his yellow footprints thinking that like everything that's behind me, like this is a chance for me to to do something. Because I was, I had my childhood was so, my stepfather, like lots of 50s. physical abuse in my life, I felt free. I felt like a sense of freedom that I wasn't held back by like my stepfather, my dad, like it was just like, this is for me, I could do what I want to with this. And I don't know how at the young naive age of 17 years old, I made a decision to embrace it. And I just put everything I could, you know, graduated squad leader at boot camp,

got honor grad out of infantry school. I get to 29 Palms, California. And I'm like, I made this guy promise. The Marine Corps is not, I have no contractual obligation to get my GED, but I'm like, I made this guy a promise. I went to Compromont in College in 20-9 poems, got my GED. All these years later, I have the NBA, and I always joke when I'm speaking. I'm like, I can't spell NBA, but I got one.

But, you know, like the Marine Corps really gave, and I'll go speak at Marine Corps boot camp for eight years now. I'll go every quarter right here in San Diego, and now I'm going to Parrish Island. I've spoke to about a half million troops over the last 12 years, a lot of them at Marine Corps boot camp. And I tell them about the experience, like when you stand them to Yellowfoot prints in Marine Corps boot camp, wherever, you know, a young service, members and find themselves and they raised their hand and make that commitment. It doesn't matter

like what color you are. If you're black, white, Asian, Hispanic, it doesn't matter if your dad was rich or poor. You lived in a project or a trailer park. None of that matters. Like it's on you to change your trajectory of your life for better or for worse. And you had that opportunity when you go there. And man, none of your past matters anymore. And I like really had recognized that. I had that drive to want to take advantage of the opportunity. And I also had this like like lingering like commitment that me and my brother were going to be recon Marines and and so I went while I was in for infringe school I tried out for recon I don't know why they let us try out because they let us try out and then the guys

who passed are like yeah we're not taking anybody that's non-NCOs and it sent us away and so it was just maybe and then I went back again passed the second time same thing happened and I went then I went to and twin-in-pooms went to what's called regimental state platoon which is a surveillance target acquisition platoon it's a sniper Patoon and that was right after I got to 20 on poems and then I tried out a third time and got picked up and so my first year in the Marine Corps got a chance to go to become a recon Marine so that was your first year in the Marine Corps first year in the Marine Corps which back then it was you know really hard to do you didn't have a contract usually had to be around a while

and so I got yeah I got picked up and how come you got picked up were you like physically just kicking ass I was I was I was in really good shape I mean I was my like I'm super small now but I was like 120 pounds I was running like I was only like 60 minutes at three miles. I was, you know, I was really good in the water. I was, you know, I grew up in the bayous and water. I never competitively swam, but I was just really comfortable in the water. And, uh, web feet, man. Yeah. And, uh, you know, I think I was just, I just wanted it so bad. And, uh, and so myself and a guy who went to boot camp with named Mark Terrell, who's actually still in ring core. He's a gunner now, which is not a gunny, a gunner, uh, which is like

combat advisor. He's, you know, recon morsock. And he's, uh, but we went through it together, uh, me. him and a guy named Foster Harrington who was uh foster was killed on our on our first deployment but uh yeah so uh we all went through that together and they were young guys too so this was what year is this 1994 so went in in 93 94 and then the recons school is that the one that's down in coronado yeah well it's not they're still running in coronado but part of it's in coronado that it used to be when i went it was a w tg pack and uh and i went right across and buds but now it's a headquartered in camp pen on under the school of infantry but you still do the amphit package down in coronado but how long is that how long is the recon

school well it's a it's a whole pipeline it's a year long uh so they go they go to what's called they'll go to four weeks of infantry school and then they go to uh they go to what's called uh mart Marines awaiting recon training and it's just like a holding platoon that they just weed people out through physical fitness uh and then they have then they do BRPC which is basic recon prep which is three weeks and then they do a basic recon course which is 10 weeks and what do you learn it in the basic recon course uh shooting shooting movement communication amphib uh all the amphib stuff it's basically like uh you doing all the core functional like things of reconnoonsonsons missions route reps fording reps um hilo

Helo zone, surf reps, confirmatory beach reports. Get some. All those kind of, with no equipment, like just the, you know, the 550 core getting tangled up in the surf zone. So all that stuff. And then a lot of fitness, you could, when you walk up, when these guys, kids leave recon school, they can communicate as good as any communicator, probably better because they get more equipment.

They should be able to do all their basic, like, you know, call fire stuff and nine lines. And then they, they're patrolling, a small unit patrolling. and they're going to rotate through kind of like at Ranger School where they'll go through like being a point man to all the way to being a team leader. So they're going to get fragged during that patrolling phase and now you're the team leader and they'll do 10-day patrolling phase.

Land navigation is extremely difficult, both water and land. Where do you do the land now? In Campillon? Yeah. So it's extremely difficult because it doesn't allow you to dead wrecking. You have to pick up a mapping compass terrain, associate and run with gear or you're not going to make the times.

Ken Pendleton's a national treasure. It is. It really is. That place is freaking awesome. It's awesome. I wish it was even bigger. So when you graduate at BRC, you go to, then you go, you graduate on Friday, and then on Monday, you're in pre-scuba. You do two weeks of pre-scuba, and then you go down the Florida for 10 weeks or nine weeks of combat dive.

Who teaches that? Is it Marine Corps? Is that the Navy course? It's the Marine Corps one. So you do enclosed and open circuit. Oh, okay. So, yeah, the Navy course is the Open Circuit course. Back in my day, I did Navy Open Circuit, then I did a LAR5 transition course.

but now they do the whole combat dive course from sort of learning the, you know, insertion, really more than insertion, being able to navigate on a LAR5, that's basically what they're doing. And then you do Sierra school, then free fall school, and then you go to a unit.

So when the guys go to unit now, they're 19, 20 years old, then you're schooled out there ready to deploy. And is that what you did too? You went through all those schools? I did, but it didn't do them all consecutive in a pipeline like that. So I went through and then,

you know, Wait around. Wait around. You get jump school. Yeah. Probably like kind of your in your day. Yeah. Well, no,

you guys come out diving. We would come out dive, but we didn't go to jump school until after. And we only went to static line down in Fort Benning with the U.S. Army. Yeah. And then we got done with that. Eventually,

I didn't get, I didn't get free fall until after my first platoon. And now guys get it. They just get it in the pipeline before they even get their, get their bird. They get the free fall school. Yeah, same thing with me. In the meantime,

what's your part? Didn't you get married when you were young as well? Oh, yeah. Me and Kathy met when I was right before Recon School. So we met 17 and 18. Our first dates was like on Coronado Beach. Like her coming down to see me on there like, because you don't get any days off there.

You get like, I think two weekends off. And then you got a write up, you got an 80-page patrol that are right on those. So like she came down and see me on those weekends. And I remember we actually fell asleep together on the beach out there. Right. But that's, you know, that was, that was how we started dating and then a year after we started dating we got married so when she was 18

and you're 19 yeah that's what you all got married yeah and so she's been through all of it she's been doing way worse than recomb school yeah she's been through all of it yeah that's uh that's awesome that you guys are still together um so so now you're you're doing this and then what's what are you are you going on deployment what are your deployments like no it's 93 i mean uh i went in 93 to and so this is like you know, I finished this training in 94. There's no deployment. Actually, did you go on an ARG deployment or something?

No, we do. We're, my, my unit was doing, uh, was mainly doing the, uh,

JTF6 missions down on, uh, across border here, you know, right across the border from where we're at. And in Mexico, we were doing a JTF6 counter narcotics missions.

Uh, that's primarily what my unit was doing when I was in active duty. And then after that first four years, I'm like, man, we're not doing anything right now. I want to go, be officer.

So I went to the reserves. I went to third force recond in the reserves. So you do your first hitch. You get done with all this schooling. Were they pissed when you said you were going to go reserves? Or were they downsizing at this time? Yeah, I don't think they really care. It didn't seem like they really care.

Yeah, they offered me a school and an eye and I billet at Reno, which was an inspector instructor billet at fourth, fourth force recon. It was not really, that wasn't really pushing guys to stay in. So you make a decision you're going to get out or go to the reserves, go to school, be coming off. And then you can come back in as an officer. Yeah, that was my plan. And that way you'll be able to financially take care of your family.

Did you have a kid yet? Yeah, I had Hunter. Hunter was born. My oldest, he was born in 20 homes. You're just knocking it out, bro. You're just kidding and done. I'm from Louisiana. Like, we started early in Louisiana.

They thought you were old when you had a kid at 19. They're like, what's wrong with you? What are you waiting for? Oh, yeah, that was the pressure from, I remember my mom saying, you get married, like, okay, she's pregnant? Like, yeah. So when you get out, what are you going to do now? So now you're out. You got a kid. You're in the reserves. And this is when you become a,

a police officer, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was trying to find work, like, to go to, through college. I mean, uh, and this, this may sound stupid. It was. I didn't sign up for the, uh, the, uh, the I bill. You have to sign up for all. That's right. So I mean, I'm in, I'm in boot camp. I'm the one idiot that said no. Right. And I'm like, I didn't even graduate high school. Like, a hundred bucks a month was like, that's a 10th of your paycheck. Like, Yeah, so what happens is the GI Bill that you pay, well, probably the same as when you went through and I went through. It's different now, I think, but it was a hundred, you pay $100 a month for a year. Yep.

And then after that year, when you get out, whenever that is, they give you something like $40,000 for school if you're in college. And Chad looked at that and says, no deal, but I want my $100 bucks. That's exactly right. Yeah, I'm the idiot that did it. Dang. And you couldn't get it back. I tried. Yeah.

The other thing is even if you don't use it, you can give it to your kids. So you were a stubborn bastard for you to be like, no, I'm not doing it. I actually had a drill instructor told me it like, like, had talked, told me and like two other, two or three other guys not to do it. And I don't know why. I can't remember why, but I didn't. And now I'm like, that is the stupidest decision, especially for me because I ended up getting, getting, get the NBA, which was expensive.

which was expensive. Yeah. Okay, so you get out. Now you got to go to college, but you also need a job. You got a kid. You got a wife. So how hard is it become a cop?

Is it a, because right now there's recruiting for cops. It's a lot easier to become a cop than it used to be because the cops are having a hard time recruiting people to beat cops because there's so much negative press. What was it like when you tried to become a cop? It was pretty easy. I mean,

you know, I'm going back to, you know, backwoods, Louisiana. and I'm coming out of military, so I'm coming off of active duty, special operations, so like not a lot of competition in the recruiting pool. And I was, I mean, I was,

I thought I was able to pull it off doing this. I was teaching swimming lessons and water survival for the oil field at YMCA, so using some of the skills I have to teach in little kids swimming lessons, and my kids were the best. And then there was like this water survival, everybody goes in the oil over,

they have the underwater egress for like, when helicopter rollovers and stuff like that. So I got a position at the YMCA to teach that for the guys traveling in the oil field. But I just wasn't making enough money. So I was like, man, I got to do something else. So I went to the jail and I was working at the jail and corrections facility like four nights a week,

four nights a week, trying to do all this. And then they offer me a position to go to the police academy. How long is the police academy? Like three months, something like that wasn't long. How was it? I mean, I was in such good shape at the time. It was pretty easy. Actually, I do remember studying a lot, though, and he had to take what's called the post,

which is the state exam. And so I remember studying a lot. I remember Kathy, like helping me study. She was already, like, tuned to that because, you know, all the military schools and doing flashcards with me. She's helping her rock cuts get through this stuff, for sure. When, is this, are you back in your hometown where you grew up when you're doing this? Yeah, I went back to my hometown.

And so I graduated to police academy and in this department, which is called, it's called, St. Charles Parish, which is where the New Orleans airport is. Just like New Orleans is like this kind of mesh of, you have Jefferson, Jefferson Parish, and they don't have counties that parishes. So they have Jefferson Parish, St. Charles Parish, Orleans Parish, just like in New Orleans area. And so they, I graduated like, I got the like physical fitness and a high shooter award at the academy. And so I had, so the sheriff there offered me a job to come. I looked really young still. And so they offered me a job to come to St. Charles Parish and work undercover in the high school there. Damn, 21 jumps to you. Fresh out of

from Marine Corps and go back to high school. And, and, uh, you know, I did it? I did it. Yeah. And so what did you do? What did you roll in there? You're carrying a freaking book bag and I'm in algebra book. I remember walking through the hall and a, and a teacher like put his hand out and I'm like, and I had gum in my mouth and I'm like, you know, like last year I was doing counter drug missions and in Mexico as a for as a recont team leader and now I'm having to spit my gum out for this teacher. That's, you know, but I was, I went, the whole plan was for me to go to school for like two weeks and then leave the school and have those relationships. And I wasn't trying to, I wasn't, my job wasn't to go bust kids.

It was the, just adults that were selling the kids. And so getting that network and I did that for like four months and we, at the end of it, We had like over 40, like a felony warrants that we were able to pull off. So it was pretty, yeah, it was pretty, cool opportunity to do that. So was that, did you, was that like an undercover gig? Do you have a fake name and all that stuff?

Yeah, I did. I had a fake name and a fake driver's license in Louisiana that you get, you know, through the governor's office. And how old were you supposed to be? I was high school age, I can't remember exactly, but like, like 17, yeah, yeah, 17. And I wish I would love,

They had another kid in our task force that played in a, in a, in a, they went to a high school called a Bell Chase High School and he played for the, and he was like, he played college baseball and then he went, played baseball at the high school. And like, he was like, he had this story like, my parents died and, and so the team came together and bought him a glove and he's like, he's like, he's like ripping leather off a balls. What do you do like on a, I was hoping there was a wrestling team, like I could have like been smashing kids in their face. State champ. So like on a.

Friday night when the kids are having a party. That's where it would be. Yeah. You'd go. Yeah. And I don't know. What book did I write it in? I think I wrote it in my book in Unfair Vantage.

We were at this party and I think I passed the period to where I get in trouble for this. But we had this party in these guys. It was these, you know, all these high school girls were like, I'm like the new guy, right? So there's high school girls. So it wasn't anything to do with drugs or anything like that. These guys wanted to beat me up because there were. girlfriends were like after me right right so I'm at this high school party and I got these guys want to beat me up there were they were not kids they were adults and and

and so I'm trying to leave and this guy takes a swing at me and and I pushed the car door and he hits this girl and and when that happens I like grab the guy and then someone shoots the back of the truck because these are all you know pretty bad people somebody shoots the back of our truck and our the guy I was with who was not an undercover guy he was just like kind of making my cover off or from another town. He like stands up out of the top of a, of a, we were in a four runner, there's a sunroof.

He stands up and starts laying like a base of cover fire at a high school party like with a Glock, just empties a magazine. Everybody's running and then he peels out of there. And like, like, dude. Like I'm like, dude, how was your rep as a high school kid after that? Well, they were like, dude, don't mess with.

What was your fake name? Do you remember your fake name? Well, my first name, I kept my first name. Okay. And then I changed my last name to my son's name. name Hunter. So Chad Hunter. So Chad Hunter, they're like, dude, don't mess with Chad Hunter. His buddies, he's buddies crazy. So this guy, the guy who, uh, uh, his last name was McKinney was his first day. But he, so he comes, they come after me and they have like,

they come after me. They had between a group of them, they had an AK-47 and they were coming after me. So I'm picking up this girl from school, from high school and these guys come, I didn't have my gun with me because there's in a car. So these guys try to jump me and I go in my car and we and they and I grab my gun and they come over the top and we're getting this like a little altercation for my gun and after that the whole thing was over we ended up doing a massive arrest so this guy uh thank god bro you're freaking AK 47's in high school yeah you were in freaking recon for four years that you didn't see an AK 47 no I get to high school so this guy this guy comes is they're looking for me now so they pull me out of being undercover we do this thing so

Benjamin McKinney's his name. And so last year, I'm teaching a jihitsu seminar and this guy comes out to me and he goes, you know who I am? And it's this guy, Benjamin McKinney. He's like, I hope you don't hate me. And he like makes this big apology to me. And he's like his life's like in a good place right now.

He's like, he went to jail for this. And, you know, spent some time in jail. And he's like, been following me for years now. And he like, now he's like, man, I really look up to what you're doing. What you're doing is amazing. He's like, yeah, when I got my ass beat, Don't worry.

It was a force recomb Marine and I was only 14. Yeah. Yes. When you were, so this is like stuff. He was an adult though. Yeah, yeah. Okay. He was like 1819 or something like that.

When, how did you like being undercover? Did you like that? Yeah, I did. It like right away like I gravitated to that. I don't like that stuff. Yeah. I don't like it. I don't like, I don't like pretend.

Yep. And I just don't like that kind of thing. And I always wanted to have like an American flag on my chest. Like this is me. I'm American. Yeah. That's what we're doing. I was never suited for the other side of things.

You know, I just, just not part of my personality. And even as I think about like under, even I guess the, at least in high school, it doesn't seem like there'd be a huge threat level, although apparently there was. But it doesn't seem like you'd have to get too kind of complicated with your stories and your web of lies. that you're telling it's not it's not super deep right it's pretty shallow I had apartment my dad like this old guy I worked at the sheriff's office and he came in and would pretend to be my dad every now and then but oh another thing you know Lou Rivera yeah so he's a he he lived like he went to the same high school and we found

this out later he went to the same high school and you knew about it and he like lived in the street that he used to buy crack off of so I'm like dude I think I've bought some crack from you before I uh I don't know why like I never thought about doing And I'd never aspired to do that. But when I did it, I kind of liked it because I felt I felt like I could always adapt to any environment that was in, like blend in with any group of people. Like I could go with rich people, poor people. Like I just blend everywhere I go.

And it's kind of my personality. So I felt like it really worked in that world. Like really, I felt super comfortable doing that. So you got a good taste for that type of thing, you know, which is cool. Now you had an officer involved shooting too. I did. you were a cop what happened with that so I had just got off of the undercover thing they put me on patrol and and I went through the I still had to go through the whole like

FTO field training officer thing and this guy Miss Marine named uh Steve Stephen Kentelli trained me and a guy named him and a guy named Paul train me and then so I'm I'm done with field FTO and I'm working my beat which is like they have these in the east bank of New Orleans side they had like these four beats and so I was like the center one and the guy like one over from me was the guy to train me, Steve Kentelli. And I was just eating. And I remember hearing a call come over radio. And Steve was like a really composed, like kind of very like solid guy and heard his voice.

Like something was wrong in the radio system cut off. We had just got a brand new radio system for the whole department, you know, kind of Murphy's Law. It shuts off. And so I'm like, man, something just inside me was like, he needs help. So I like, I remember speeding there and got my lights in my car and people were like stopping in the road instead of like pulling over and it was like having to like I remember just being panicked to get to him because I just felt this eminence to get to him when I got to where he was it was just like a it wasn't like a trailer park but he's like modular homes and and it was elevated and there was about 30 people outside

the front like looking at the porch and Steve was on the porch elevated porch with this woman and he's yelling with her she I could see her trying to get in the house and he's trying to hold her back but he's still looking inside and I come up on the porch and Steve's like this is a It's nighttime. It's nighttime. Okay. Yeah, about,

maybe about 30 people out front. And, uh, and, Steve's like, hey, her husband, you're alone in your car. Yeah.

So you're single person. Yeah. Single person. Yeah. So it's just me and him there. And, uh, and so Steve says,

hey, this, this, her husband just barricaded himself in the back. His name was Russell Stebbins that we had been there before. He's, he's, he's barriced himself in the back.

He's got a gun. Get her off the porch. So I, I like try to talk to her. She was arguing. I just grabbed her and a bunch of men down to the bottom. I just pushed over the rail and a bunch of men grabbed her and pulled her off. Her kids were down there, like, I wouldn't say toddler, but like, you know, maybe six, seven-year-old kids down on the ground looking up.

And you could tell they were like scared, trying to figure out what's going on. And so I came back and when I turned back around, Steve put me in the doorway. He's like, hey, stand right here. I'm going to cover the window. And so he went to the window where, which is the, the back room of this modular home so he couldn't shoot out the window and I stood in the doorway of this uh of the main of the like right in front of his living room to the rights of kitchen and the cat a corner across from me as a hallway and in a cat a corner at the end of the hallway

is a mirror and so I kind of see down the hallway and I'm standing in there and I have a have my my Glock I have a 40 caliber pistol and uh and I have it have it out and when I seen him coming to the window, that mirror, he had his rifle kind of against him, and he was, like, barricaded himself. And I could see him manipulating the, like, press checking. And I'm like, I just start, you know, yelling at him. I'm like, hey, put the gun down, come out, let's talk about it. He's like, I want to see my wife.

And you guys need to leave. And I'm like, we're not leaving. You need to put the gun down. I'm kind of talking like a cop wood like you're trained to do. And then he, I don't know what provoked him to do this, but he came around the corner and he had the gun over his shoulder. Not like shoulder like to fire, but he had it over his shoulder with the barrel pointed towards me. But I could see his hand was by the trigger, but not on the trigger, which is kind of weird that he would do it like that.

And he was pointing it to me. But, you know, in a lethal force continuum, like, you could, I could have shot him right there. But for some reason, I felt like I still had control of the situation. And like, there's a guy that's arguing with his wife. He obviously been drinking. There's still dinner on the table. There's kids' toys are on the floor. his family pictures like you know you don't want to kill someone unless you have to like

I mean at that morning if somebody would ask me like somebody points a gun at you I'm like yeah freaking gonna light him up but now in that moment like the reality of it like man I don't I don't have to kill this guy right now I can still control the situation and so I but I start yelling and I'm like not like a cop anymore I'm like I'm gonna fucking kill you like put your gun down I'm gonna kill you and he's like you put down your gun and he gets in this like verbal altercation back and forth to me and he's he was six three two hundred thirty pounds I know his height and weight. So he's, I'm like 125 pounds.

And, and I had been training a lot. I was training a lot of the time in Muay Thai and jitzu. And I saw my confidence level was probably like, you know, I'm getting fights all the time as a cop. And so I decided to try to disarm him. So I walked, I kind of closed the distance on him with my gun retained in tight. And I grabbed the barrel of his gun and pushed it away from me. And I kicked them in the nuts.

Like, not like a football like kick, but like a push kick. They'd like try to pull the gun out of his hand. And man, like nothing. And the second time I kicked him, I must have like pulled my arm away from me and he grabbed my wrist. So now we're like fighting over. So you have his rifle in your hand,

but he has your pistol in his hand. Or your wrist. Your wrist in his hand. So neither one of you has control, full control over your firearms. That's right. And so at that point, I knew like he was not giving up.

And so I just, I turn my wrist over like to break the grip. And I'm like, I seen like center mass and I shot once. And then I pulled my gun in I shot five more times, so I shot like six rounds, like pretty quickly. And then I didn't even realize Steve was behind me, but he was right over my shoulder. He shot six times.

We hit him 11 times. I didn't drop the round, by the way. Always a good point to make. Shark. But it was so close, so center mat. And he turned, hit his knees, and he looked back at me like conversationally. Like he's like, you killed me. And then he like fell over.

I pushed him down and pulled the rifle from underneath him. and I was trying to get his arms to handcuff him. And one of his wrists, I think when I shot in one of his wrists, probably when I broke the wrist grip, it went in front of his body. And so it blew out his wrist. So when I went to grab his wrist to handcuff him, it was just like jello. Like I remember just like getting, I had like short sleeves on. I had like blood all over me.

And he like, I heard him breathe out. And, you know, he kind of like exhaled and breathe his last breath. And I handcuffed him. And we searched the house and I heard all kind of police, you know, sirens and everything, but it's coming, like right then. And I remember looking back, like, right after when I was handcuffed him, I looked right back out. And for some reason, my eyes went, I want to, like, look back and I don't know what happened

first if I heard her scream or, or if I seen her first, but I just remember his wife, like, screaming, like, loudest, like, blood curdling scream. And then I seen the kids just like, just like, just stoic, like, just quiet. And then everybody got there, separate me and Steve. And I ended up getting a right red. to us, got the polygraph, the whole interview thing. And then the next day, police chief called me up and was like,

hey, don't read the newspaper, of course, I did, and say cold-blooded murder. And then underneath it, it's really small, police say justified. And I went through a long process of, I went before grand jury for secondary murder indictment, got cleared by the grand jury. We got an award from the governor,

Medal of Ballot Award. We went through a lawsuit, all the stuff that goes along with something like that. And then I was just like super bitter after that and uh, and uh, had me because of the way the department handled it. I mean, it's, you know, it was super political. No one wants to make a decision. Uh, the district attorney's office could have like not put us before grand jury. It was very clear what happened. But uh, we uh, that was, I had no interest in law enforcement after that. I was like pretty pretty jaded. And so then was it back in the Marine Corps? Well, I mean, I hung out. I actually went from

patrol and that incident because of that award the chief had promoted me to detective and so I'm like 23 years old I've been I've been on you know did my four years in Marine Corps did one seven eight months undercover did a year on patrol and now I'm putting the detective bureau because I just got this big award and and so I did that for a little bit until 9-11 happened and then uh when 9-11 happened you know it was I think everyone was rushing back everybody in reserves rushing back to their unit I thought I was gonna deploy right away and and we we didn't and so that I don't remember that it's time the air marshals went around recruiting at all the reserve units because you had special operations guys with top secret clearances and so I was on that first that wasn't that first wave of guys I went to the

air marshals and I did a little bit of time there and then how long how long did you do with the air marshals just under two years it was it was super cool at first then it became really lame really fast what was the number of air marshals there were before 9-11 and what was the number of air marshals there were before 9-11 and What was the number of air marshals that were after? Around 45 before, I think the number after, number now is I wouldn't know. But at the time, they spun up from about 40, a little bit over 40 and about 2000 pretty quick. And, you know, I got to give it to them. The training, like I went through the first training was, it was freaking good.

It was legit. Like, you know, we had to do the Flexi stuff, the Federal Law Enforcement Academy stuff, went down our Artesian Mexico, but the shooting package was the most competitive shooting package I'd ever pistol shooting package. We used to shoot that, whatever their qual is. TPC, tactical pistol course. I just remember some qual that we called the Air Marshal and I don't know, who knows if some team guy just saw it and whatever, talk to somebody about it, but we had some, and I forget

what it was, but it was a good, tough, you know, if you weren't on your game, you could blow some of the shots. Yeah. Which makes sense, obviously you're in an aircraft with a bunch of people. And you only have a pistol, you want to be a freaking good pistol shot. Yep. It was good. How long was that training for air marshal?

I think it was like three months, three months. And then I started flying. And it became the training officer for the Denver Field Office because of my jihitsu background. So that's right. This whole time, when did you start training jihitsu hardcore? So I started when I was five years old, I went to a taekwondo school, which, and obviously, I don't remember why, but somehow I gravitated to the traditional jitist school and judo did that my whole life.

And when I, when I was on 20-9 poems in 1995, I was a, I seen a sign for jihitsu on base and I went to take it and it ended up being these two blue belts out of torrents that were coming down. And I got, and I got mauled and I'm like, I wanna learn that. Two people, do you have two different reactions

when you get experienced jitsu? You either like, I never want anything to do with that again or I have to do this. And that was my reaction. And so in 95, I started Brazilian Jitsu. That's where black belts come from. But black belts go, dude, I want to whatever that person knows. I need to learn that guy.

I have to learn that. So that was a nice. So you started training pretty regularly back then. And then when you got out, where were you training in Louisiana? In Mediterranean, there was a guy named Hani Salas, who was a black belt, but we found out he wasn't really a black belt, but he was from Brazil. And he was really good at Jiu-Jitsu, way better than us. So he put on a black belt and he was probably, I think it was like a purple belt. We're like.

And so that we'll take it. Yeah. I learned a lot from him and a guy named Alfredo Ramirez, who was a jack. Japanese jitsu black belt, but he was really good at Brazilian Jitsu. He went belted in Brazilian Jitsu at all, but he was really good. He had fought in like the IFC. And then we had a guy named Josh Stewart that fought in the early day UFC. So we had some really, really good like MMA fighters.

And, and man, you know, but back then, I know you've been training that long. Back then it was, it was, it was a tough mat room. Yeah, yeah. And even, you know, back then if you had a blue belt, some, someone was a teacher, you could run a school as a blue belt 100%. Like there were schools all over the place that not all over the place, but there was a lot of schools

that just had a blue belt, some blue belt was teaching and that was that. I remember going to purple belt seminars. Yeah, for sure. Oh my gosh, like a purple belt. For sure. When you, but you, and you had your first amateur fight in 1999.

My first pro fight in 99. Oh, okay. My first amateur fight was in 97. Oh, dang, okay. Actually, I fought Dean Thomas. Oh yeah, yeah. We fought, we fought. How'd you do against Dean Thomas?

I lost. He, he's a good, freaking guy, we're gonna lose. They told me that it was his debut. He had just came back from Japan fighting Shuto. Oh, dude. Monty Cox was a matchmaker back then. And, yeah, but yeah, me and Dean became friends over the years.

But he's a, and then a 99-in-turned pro. And I did a couple of those fights where it was like the four-man brackets. Yeah. Like back then. And the rules were so, like, different back then. You could, like, stomp each other in the head. I did a few fights where there were like these, like, little, like, pads with with elastic under their fingers.

Not much for gloves. Not much for gloves at all. Yeah. So you're doing these fights. You have that officer involved shooting. You end up with the air marshals. And then how long are you doing, how long are you actually active working as an air marshal?

Just under two years. And that whole time you're a reservist. I'm a reservist, yeah. Yep, I'm a reservist. And that's why the job they ended up having in that J-Soc task force, I feel super privileged to have, because guys had like a lot more time,

more qualified than me, but I think what got me, I think what got me selected when I tried out for that task force eventually was that combination of experience, mainly my art and cover experience. They needed somebody to impersonate a teenager. Yeah, yeah.

That's weird. That's wild, man. I was starting to grow my beard a little bit by then, so. So then at what point you get, you get, again, you're fighting, you had a fight that was October 20th, 2001, like right after September 11th.

Yeah. What, what fight was that? Oh, gosh, I don't even remember. I think it was like reality. What was the atmosphere? The atmosphere must have been freaking heavy, dude. You know, yeah, because the atmosphere of the country was different, right? Yeah.

It had flags in it all over the streets and stuff like that. You know, for me like, so fighting back then, and you probably remember this, it wasn't as big of a deal as it is now. Like when I remember some of my first fights, like, we didn't. even like have a fight card we show up at a place and they like match you up like okay you're gonna go that guy looks the same height as you he's like 30 pounds heavier like that was kind of there's still fights like that there's still fights like that you go out on the res here in california you can see some scraps going down like hey how tall are you what way do you how tall of you what do you think you guys want a deal let's make it happen so but that was probably around

the time that i was starting to do some you know there were shows you know and uh but it wasn't as big I don't remember like towards end of my fighting, but fighting these bigger fights like Bellator and Strike Force, like you had a camp, you know, like, obviously like some of your guys here, but in those early days, like it wasn't a, hey, you want to go fight this weekend?

I'm going to go fight and make an extra 500 bucks. Yeah, I get it from that perspective for sure. Nowadays, like people have camps and all that stuff. Back then it was like, hey, you want to fight this day? Who am I going to fight? Well, I don't know. Whoever shows up? Let's roll.

And then at some point, you have an opportunity, or so you're in the Marine Corps reservists, and the Marine Corps, you have an opportunity to go to a Joint Special Operations Command selection because they need a certain skill set that kind of ties into the skill sets that you have. You know, you have done undercover work. You've been in law enforcement. You have experience, you know, obviously with fighting. So it's kind of like a good, you have a good combination for this type of work that they're looking for.

And I had a really good connection. So if you've seen the movie Black Hawk Down, the guy that was undercover like an AFO guy, he was like in a mountain bike, pretend to be a journalist. They called the guy Hout in the movie, which after Norm Houton, but Norm Houton was actually a squadron,

like senior list of guy. Rich Cacho, Q was the guy that was actually FO. So he and I were very good friends and he had kind of taken me in his wing to teach surveillance detection at their marshals when I was running the... Oh, so you had that experience as well. Yeah.

So yeah, I was teaching surveillance detection. I was teaching SD, SDR. I was even teaching at the state department for the state department aside, like going out and teaching SDA. So I had that background as well in that training. And so Rich Cacho. And on top of all that, you were in the Marine Corps. So you had the infantry experience.

You had the recon experience. So you're a really good candidate. Yeah. That's a really good candidate for someone that's going to be doing sort of undercover intel gathering, kind of clandestine logistics, which is what they needed. That's exactly right. And so I really didn't even know what I was trying out for.

You know, I just know Q, I trust him. I knew he was an AFO at CAG at Delta and really looked up to him. And he's like, I think you'd be a really good fit for this. I think you should try out. I'll put in a good word for you. And so I went and did this assessment and selection and got picked up and got the opportunity to do, you know, what I believe is probably one of the biggest privileges of my life to serve in that capacity. So how long is that, how long is that school that you go to, that's,

that assessment selection and training. So the assessment and selection was like a, it was like a week long of, you know, interviews and different skill, like different skill sets, proven different skill sets. And then after that, the training, I probably did, I probably did about eight months of training, just different school. It wasn't like one school. It was like different schools. A lot of them are, you've probably seen this before.

A lot of them were like contractor, government contractors that run specific. And some of the schools I went to were like specifically for like, Me like me and one other guy like hey these two guys are coming to this school and so now we have like six instructors at all former Kag and they're running a whole school for us. So it's very like high level training you know extremely privileged to get that kind of like mentorship from guys that had done this job for a long time before and they were really preparing us they were preparing us not just for like a lot of times you go to military school and they're preparing you for service they were preparing us for a specific mission and and so that really like when you do that it really really

really elevates the level of training, you know, because you're training for something specifically. They know what you're gonna be doing. They know who you're gonna be doing with. They know what your area of operations is gonna be. Everything, yeah. So you're getting totally detailed training customized for you. And this, at this time, you are back to active duty Marine Corps?

Yeah, I went, so I went to active reserve, which in the Marine Corps, I'm sure the same Navy, you have active duty, you have active reserves. So I went on an active reserve contract. So it put me back on active duty fastest way possible. Got it. And that's, that was the fast way. possible for you give a back on. But your paycheck was coming from the Marine Corps for this for this time period for this time period now there was a point to where I switched to have a direct contract with my command, you know, at the J-Soc command that I was at. Yeah, which they do a lot. They do that a lot in this particular command. They're just like, hey, want you to stay here. We like you. You're going to do the same job, but we're going to contract you directly. And that's that's how I ended up staying at the unit that was at. Got it.

So 2003, you do your first deployment here to Afghanistan. I'm actually going to go to the book here. This is the book. Once again, look, we're going to read a small portion of this book today. There's all kinds of details in here that I'm not going to go into. There's all kinds of stories that I'm not going to read because, well, get the book and you can read it. But this is one part, I think, ties this in pretty good. You see, I was conducting logistical support operations for my Assulter Teams task with

capturing or killing the highest value targets of Taliban leaders in the Afghanistan region, getting my guys out safely and everything else in between. Aziz was my interpreter from start to finish. He had been teaching English in that apartment building when my teammate Andy recruited him to our task force. Aziz spoke English extremely well, and as crazy as it sounds, teaching English under Taliban rule was a risky way to make a living. Aziz was 25 years old, married, and knew his country inside and out.

He was also street smart and capable a necessity for an interpreter in our task force's assignments As with all the Afghans hired as interpreters, we brought Aziz in at entry level to allow him To allow us time to see him at work and discern how much we could trust him Interpreter's job description varied depending on the units which they were attached an interpreter assigned to an administrative unit for example would be asked only to interpret But in an infantry unit and interpreter would also fight alongside our troops By signing up for special operations, Aziz knew he was taking on a dangerous assignment, but that fit his personality, courageous and passionate. Of the local nationals working with us, Aziz quickly worked his way into becoming our most capable and trusted. Although Aziz came to us with no former military background, his father had been part of the Afghan army in the late 1980s that the, or sorry, in the 1980s that the Soviet Union helped build up in support of its fight against insurgent groups.

Aziz had grown up around fighting from childhood and understood the military mindset. We fast-tracked Aziz's trainings. Our command's job was to hunt down the most wanted bad guys on the battlefield, and we made sure Aziz could shoot, communicate as needed, and facilitate everything necessary. At times, I worked alongside other task force team members, but mostly I was alone except for having Aziz with me. Aziz and I traveled into what we called non-conventional or non-permissive areas where combat support and support forces were not operating. In addition to working in Afghanistan, we worked in the federally administered tribal area that blurred the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Our purpose was to go into these areas to establish a presence and build soft missions support for kinetic action contingencies. escape. And by the way, it's funny. I'm looking at the book right now. There's a bunch of stuff that when you sent this book to the Pentagon, they redacted a bunch of a bunch of things. And, you know, with my background, I know what's redacted. I'm trying to read it in a way that we don't have to keep saying redacted. But there's a bunch of stuff in here that they've blacked out and that's fine. It doesn't, it doesn't impact understanding of what's going on. But you just gave sort of the background of what you guys were doing, you know, going in there. you've got, you know,

assault teams or tactical teams that are going to go and do missions, hit targets. Well, those guys need certain support. And that's what you guys were doing. I mean, a lot of people look, you know,

you look at like, how does, how does a, you know, assault force get on, get to a target in a non-premiseive area and get off target safely, like,

where there's no support. Like, and usually, you know, people don't realize is there's guys that go there before them. and set it all up. And in all the contingencies, right? You think of safe house, like what goes in a safe house, you know, ammo, guns, blood, a safe rum, money, clothes, vehicles with permits on this vehicle.

It's about to get through certain checkpoints and know what those checkpoints can be looking for. So those vehicles have to have all those things. Like somebody goes ahead, figures all that out and puts it all in place. That way when, you know, it's go time, everything's done flawlessly. Yeah, it's like when you go and watch like a documentary about a rock and roll, band sure right the rock and roll band they show up in Chicago bro there's there's a hotel room for them their drinks are the where they want them there's like security set everything's ready all they do is got to do is get there get on

stage and rock and roll right yeah but all the other stuff like even the flights coming in the people picked them up at the airport all that stuff is taken care of there's that you know depending on what who the rock band is maybe there's some substances there that they request that had to be acquired There's all this stuff going on. It has to be done in a clandestine way. Sounds like team. I like team guys.

They get no freaking, they get no, they get no glory, right? Right. It's like even not even the roadies, not even the roadies. We're not talking before the roadies show up. Right. So all those logistics have to take place before the band can rock and roll. And it's hard to do that in a non-permissive in a combat environment. And that's kind of what you have going on with your job.

And it takes an incredible amount of effort to make that happen. Yeah, one of the things you said earlier is that a lot of guys in special operations community, like that sounds like super sexy and everybody wanted to do that. But a lot of guys, special operations community, do not want to do that job when to learn about it. And there's certain guys that like that like are built to do it and love doing that thing. For me, that was like, I didn't even know this job existed. And then once I learned, I'm like, this is right up by alley. This is exactly like what I'm supposed to be doing.

And I enjoyed it. I liked it. Yeah, no, it's, uh, it's, like I said, I'm not suited for that job.

I mean, even just, I mean, look, I was doing work with a, with the OGA one time and the guy's like, dude,

you, you, you have no, you have no, you have no, you have no, you have no reason to be here. Like,

you, you stand out as a special operations guy from any angle. Like, yeah, he's like, you could not get this. He said,

you could not get the special operation stink off you if you tried. And I was like, yeah, Roger that. So that's the way it is. And it's funny too. It's not like I, you know, not like I ever thought about that.

That's just my whole life. I just grew up, you know, that in the teams. Like you're going to end up being that way. And I guess I ended up being that way a lot. So anyways. We had a team guy that was like putting in with us one time. I'll say his name off air if you want to do later, but I don't say it here. But he was that way.

They tried to put him in with us because he had this like specific skill set for this one like, like a feasibility study we were doing for a future operation. and he was like, check, like, Roger. I'm like, I'm like, dude, like, you know, he's freaking skinned alive. Like, yeah, that's me all day long. So he was just, you know, he just looked it too. And, you probably know him, but I was,

so we end up having him like, really just train me up and not come out. Like, he just really spun me up on something that I had no experience doing, but he really, he really trained me up. I'm not going undercover anywhere. It's basically what I'm getting at. We were one time, we were in Jalalba, uh, Jalalabad. It was me and Aziz in a in Dave Lamone and the three of us are in this in warehouse we had set it up we had to like vehicle stage and the so the team guys so

so team guys that came there they want to free fall in I don't think they really needed to free fall but they wanted it for that free fall jump in Afghanistan so they so they actually did a we were supposed I wanted in there right too so we thought we were getting to go on and we ended up not getting to going on it but they jumped in and and then patrolled over to where we're at and and their medicine in his warehouse and they get in there and they're like coming in and they're like you know, you know, got their quads on and they're like, you know, doing a, you know, their perimeter like doing their sales like stop look, look, listen, smell. They're like doing all this. And

we're just like, hey, what's up guys? Like coming out with our tea. Like, like, you guys are stupid. Like, you guys are nuts. Like, we live here. Jack. Right on. You go on to say here, I was assigned well over 100 missions. No one was beside me or more instrumental. in the success of these missions as much as Aziz. His skills, expertise, knowledge, and connections made our work successful. Aziz and I continuously operated in environments dangerous to us, not only because we were embedded in Afghanistan,

but by the nature of our assignments, because we were in areas where our command wanted to target operating Taliban. We went by ourselves to where the Taliban were without military support. immediately available to us. So that's what you're doing. And again, some people are going to have to use your imaginations a little bit because obviously a lot of what you're doing was and still is classified, but that's the type of missions that you're doing.

You're in areas where you're not going to get support. Your best methodology for survival is being able to blend in and keep that stuff as tight as you possibly can. So you're going you're you're doing these missions. How often are you going on deployment? How long do you coming home for? What are they? These are shorter deployments.

Shorter deployments. Yeah. I think a lot of people like eight deployments. And in fairness, my deployments were like like four months long. I think the longest one was six. And then I come, but I come home for like three months. We back out again. Sometimes even 60 days, I'd be home just enough to go to some.

And it's not really like going home and relaxing. I'm going home and going to school. Going to school. He's getting trained up for the next. do a every time out we do a we do a pre-deployment called loan it was called loan operator course we go to Las Vegas got him JT Jim Jim Mitchell train or JMT Jim Mitchell training or JPM METT Jim Mitchell training where he's former PJ guy has a bunch of cat guys on his staff they would do all a pre-deployment stuff and so I get so yeah there's always training between

and he back out again how's your wife like all this uh actually at the time uh our kids are small. So she's just like so busy. And she's a I say that's not insulting to her at all. It's actually a price of a blessing for us. She was like extremely naive to what I was doing. And she didn't care. Like I could have been out there as a Halliburton cook. Like she didn't know the difference or care. Like you're going to work. That sounds a lot like my wife. Yeah. Going to work. Yeah. When you get me home, I'm pretty sure I'll be home in six months. Okay. Bye. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You even pack your lunch. Like she, I mean, if I went home and said, I want to be a bank robber tomorrow she'd actually go in a lunch but you know like she just said does none of that matters

to her she's never been impressed by the recon bang or all this thing she just did not face by it at all so she was just really she's a mom and she's housewife and that's what she loves to do and that's nothing you know that's just who she is and so she just really thrived and just taking care of our kids and making sure she always felt like her part was to make sure that i would didn't have a heavy burden of what was going on back home that's also very similar to my wife my wife was like she got you know she's taking care of the home front so i could go and do my job In the meantime, you're also coming here. You're still fighting.

Yeah. You know, I was like looking at your record on Sherdog or whatever, one of those, and you, you, 2004, February 7th, you had a fight. A pro fight, you won. April 19th, you had a pro fight, you won. November 16th, you had a pro fight, you won. This is like, you're an active, those are normal, those are normal intervals for a professional fighter in this day and age.

I was fighting, I was fighting guys that were training full time too while I was doing. So like I'd be over, I always carried a jump rope with me in bands. Because you can't go out jogging in, in Jalalabad. Yeah. So I always had a jump rope. I always had bands with me everywhere I went. And, and I ran into some, I had this guy. I ended up hiring him.

He was a wrestler from Afghanistan. And we'd carry mats with us and wrestle with him. And he was actually pretty good. Yeah. And so I was teaching him jiu-jitsu. He was a really good wrestler. and I train with him out there. But I mean, I come back and as part of,

you'll probably relate to this, it was part of my, you could get really out of shape really quick in this job because I'm not, I'm not, I'm at, I don't have the gym, I don't have, you know, I'm not on base. I'm going out and I'm like three months out in the mountains. And so you get really out of shape really fast. So when I come home, like, I would crush myself,

like I have to get myself back in. And so putting a fight on the calendar for me was like a, mental like target to push myself. And I've always kind of been that way. I always want something on the calendar because I'm like, when you talk about discipline a lot, like I'm probably the hardest working lazy person.

I know like, because like I'll finish a fight and then the next morning, I'm like, I'm too lazy to take vitamins. Like so like having it. So having like something on the calendar always pushes me to be prepared. I never like doing something and not prepared for.

So if I had that date in the calendar, so it's doing these fights where there's something that would like force me back and I come home and like, can I compete? A jitzy tournament, the MMA fight, can I compete while I'm home? And that would push me to get back in shape. Now, it seemed like there's a chunk of time a few years

where, you know, you didn't fight. You were probably just absorbed in work. That's what my assumption is. You're just working, going on deployment, and you don't feel like you're ready to fight. Yeah. And these deployments just continue. That being said, 2009, you know,

You know, January 31st, you fight, you win. April 17th, 2009, you fight, you win. November 7th, 2009, you fight, you win. You got a freaking good record at this point. Like, you were undefeated, actually. Yeah. That's freaking outstanding. I think Sherdog's missing like five fights too.

Oh, are they? Yeah. I think your record ended up being like 13. When Sherdog has 13, Mixmore Shorts.com has 18 and 2. Okay. Well, there you go. a bunch of fights. You're living this life.

And it sounds cool when we're talking about it right now. But it started to take its toll. Yeah. And I'm going to go to the book here for a chunk. You say this. During my eighth and last deployment, I was conducting a feasibility study for an operation targeting a high-level Taliban leader in the mountains.

Aziz flew into help. While we were there, we got caught up in the middle of a tribal rivalry. We were inside a building when we heard shooting break out from both sides of the street. I looked out to see cars blocking the road, wagons flipped over, and tires on fire for hasty cover as the tribal members fired each other.

It was a rather typical day for such a hostile area, but Aziz and I wanted no part of the action. We scrambled through the back of the building and escaped the area. We completed the study, and one of our special operations teams came in and killed the Taliban leader. I was called back to the Persian Gulf

to meet with our leadership, and they informed me the Taliban, Taliban had captured and killed a group of 10 Afghan team members who had worked for me. This was a special group to me. I had eaten in their homes with their families and played with their kids. These guys knew my location and possessed the ability to compromise me. The Taliban held them for a week and then hanged them except for two who flipped to the Taliban side and then turned the others over causing their deaths. I love these men.

They were my friends. I would have died for them and they would have died for me. In fact, I believe they did die for me. Despite being compromised, I returned and continued on with our operation because I believed its importance was worth the personal risk. A few days after I arrived, I was abducted by Taliban sympathizers. At 5 a.m., I heard a knock on the door and through the window. I could see Jack, a guy who had spent time with in his home,

and an older man Jack claimed to be Canadian, but he was clearly Pakistani. Both were dressed in suits and ties. When I opened the door, two more guys came out of hiding. The four men forced me out of my doorway and into the back of a car. They drove me to the hills outside of town. I thought for certain they were going to kill me, but I was going to put up a hell of a fight when the first gun came out. The men heavily interrogated me for an hour or two, but I held up.

And for some reason, they chose to release me. I attempted one more operation after that, but my mind was not in a good place. I was experiencing severe physiological reactions, panic attacks, and mental disassociation, sometimes feeling as if I had awakened from a dream state. That's sketchy. Yeah. I know some of that was redacted and I changed the wording, but, you know, it won't say which one, but it was a foreign intelligence agency that grabbed me.

And I knew, I knew it was when they grabbed me. And, you know, once fear sets in, if you don't, deal with it. It becomes just erode you. And I remember flying back in after we had found learned us, our guys were killed and making a decision because it was like, hey, you guys still in? And I was like in disease too. We were like, yeah, we have to. We put in put in three years into this operation. And, and that flight over. I remember I landed in Beijing. And on it in Laior in Beijing was the first time I ever had a panic attack in my life. I didn't know what it was. I thought they sprayed like for the bird flu thing and I was like man like I had a

religious reaction I tried to get off the plane they would lay me off the plane and I was having a panic attack and then and then when I landed in the country I went to that when I landed there I was I was in bad shape and I was by myself and so I started dealing with these panic attacks and I knew that that intelligence agency was out to get me and I pushed me I think it was just too much to push forward through and and then I don't know if I mentioned it there but in another spot we had a house in Afghanistan They drove a B-Bid, a vehicle bomb into our house, leveled our house. It was a bad time, and that was in bad shape.

You say this here, fast forward a little bit. And again, there's a lot of details in here that I'm skipping over, but that's why people get the book. You say the execution of our Afghan teammates, the interrogation, and the attempt to kill me, and my teammates shook me up pretty good. My panic attacks and physiological symptoms were progressing rapidly. Or sorry, yeah, physiological symptoms were progressing. rapidly in a moment of clarity I concluded my declining mental condition had placed me and others in danger I needed medical help I communicated to my leadership over an open phone line that

I wasn't feeling well and instead of visiting a local doctor I needed to see one in the gulf that was a signal that something serious was wrong with me I booked a round trip flight to avoid raising suspicions and left behind all my personal belongings other than what I stuffed into an overnight backpack. At the airport, leaving, I was paranoid about everyone around me. I noticed more police inside the airport than normal. I believe they were looking for me. I passed through customs with the feeling that I was rolling the dice for my life

in a game of roulette, only to make it through and then learn my flight was delayed. I was convinced they were holding up the flight until they caught me. I remember staring at the hands on the clock and feeling like time was frozen. Finally, we were called to board the plane. To this day, I can't clearly, I can clearly remember. every moment of going through the gate and jetway to walk onto the plane. I don't know if I ever felt more relieved than when the wheels lifted from the runway and we cleared the mountains. My leadership held me in the Gulf for four days, I guess to ensure no one was following me. They prohibited me

from calling anyone, but I called my grandmother, Granny, who was like a mother to me. My panic attacks had convinced me I was dying and I wanted to tell her goodbye. Then I called my wife Kathy for the first time since we met. She heard weakness and fear in my voice. Kathy, to fly there to be with me but my command sent some of our team members to our home and shut down her plans of coming over for her safety and to prevent further compromise I spent four days in the Persian Gulf alone I ventured out to a pharmacy and purchased Valium to calm me down and get me through the flight to the states even at home I wasn't mentally right I was non-stop anxious my hands and arms

would go numb then my face my throat would feel like it was swelling shut and I struggled to breathe. I would feel like I had a thousand pound weight on my chest. I met with a psychologist and was diagnosed with severe chronic post-traumatic stress disorder. Subsequently, I was removed from the task force, along with the operations I was participating in. By that point in my career, I had direct contract with my command, meaning I was no longer on active duty. I essentially was out of a job and home for good. I brought all the anxiety, guilt, frustration, anger, and shame home with me.

Being pulled out of the game without finishing the business of stopping the Taliban and making Afghanistan safer, which I had come to dedicate my life to, made things worse. Nobody understood me, I believed. Everyone was against me. And the toxic mix of thoughts and fears raging inside me was their fault, not mine. I closed myself off to others. All I knew to do was what I had trained to do. Fight. But now I was fighting for myself and by myself, and I was losing. I trained in martial arts since age 5 and in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu since age 19. I'd also competed as an amateur and professional mixed martial arts fighter with an unbeaten record. Kathy suggests we open a jiu-jitsu school and I went full bore into training and running the school. I also returned to fighting professionally in M.MA. Within three years, our school grew to two locations in a thousand students and I still had not lost a fight, had won a world title, and climbed to number six in the world rankings in the flyweight division. I looked like I was winning at everything, but my life was a complete failure. Kathy and I separated and filed for divorce.

I convinced myself the best thing I could do for our three children was commit suicide. In September 2010, while pressing a pistol to my head, I heard someone outside my apartment door. I hid the gun. When I opened the door, Kathy was standing there. We engaged in a heated argument that led her to ask me a life-altering question. Chad, how can you do all the things you've done in the military, Afghanistan, be willing to die for your buddies, train so hard for your MMA fights, and show such discipline to cut weight for competitions, but when it comes to your family, you quit. There's no more soul-cutting word to me than being called to quit her, but she was absolutely correct. I had found professional success, but when it came to the most important things like being a husband and father and having the will to get,

well, I had quit. Yeah. Yeah, it was a very, looking back, it's, it was, that spiral happened like, like so quickly. I mean, it was three years, that spiral was three years, but it was, it was, it would just, it happened so quickly and it was so out of control. And I just kept trying to find ways to get control of my life. And, man, I just couldn't. And I was, I think more than anything, like, like, it was.

like the panic attacks and the level of panic attacks were like debilitating. Like I felt like literally like the best description. I felt like I was going to die. But on top of all that, where it was worse for me is I was embarrassed. I was just, I was just, I was just, I was just embarrassed. So what were you embarrassed about? Because, you know, I worked my whole life to get, you know, my whole, like, we talked about my story, like everything at worked to get to a place like that.

That didn't even feel like I was qualified to be at because there's so many people that had so much more military experience than me. about to be at a unit like that to be on that mission and I was like when I was doing a cross-border stuff like I was given like the keys to the kingdom to do this operation like so I felt so privileged to be there and then I was entrusted with all of this and then I felt like I failed you know I felt like I failed at it like I was like if I played NFL you know made it little league all at the D1 college and then an NFL and the Super Bowl and then you fumbled the ball that's what I felt like I did I was entrusted with us and I failed and I was embarrassed and you know you've been in that

environment some people kind of alluded to that and you know those people that I that I trusted and looked up to and would have would have died for them and they were like you know looked at me that way and and even said things to you know hey man you like let us down like you know you were fine last month you were fine last month like and man it you know it was things like you don't you don't like brush those things off when there people you respect and uh and it hurt and I was just like embarrassed and uh and uh and So I just wanted to hide from it. Like I talk like right now, everything about my life's like military, you know, my Instagram.

But in that time when I came back, I didn't want any, I didn't want to mention anything about the military to anyone. That three years was like, Jiu-Jitsu. People asked me about the military. I just like pretty much ignore it. I didn't want to talk about. What years was this? I came home in April of 2007. And so from April of 07 to pretty much 2010.

Where was your jihitsu schools? In the Woodlands, Texas. Oh, okay. So if you follow a guy named Alex Marano, he's a UFC fighter right now. He was one of my students back then. He runs the same school now. What's the name of the school?

Now it's Gracie Baha'uiland's. Got it. And that school's still there? That school's still there, yeah. That's a pretty thriving school. They just put out, put out the last ultimate fighter. Ricky Tersie else came out. He was a kid in my school back then, so he just,

but they put out some good guys. That's awesome. It's just so bizarre, right? Like, to read this and you got your school. I mean a thousand students at a jiu jitza school or even two jiu jitza schools, but that means you're financially doing I was doing well totally comfortable. I mean that's a great job you're impacting people you're around people all the time right like so it's not like you're isolated from an external perspective, right? You got students, you've got other instructors But you know what I was isolated from was accountability. I had systematically pushed everybody out of my life that would say anything hard to me and I had made my life to wear people right just lifted me up and no one told me the things i needed to hear

people just told me what i wanted to hear i did that like uh and i and i was i felt like i was pretty pretty good at that like i could just manipulate relationships to to have people around me that just like lifted me up and enabled me and no fault any of them i was i was i was doing that and like you said the jihitsu school like the success of it we opened the doors like i came home in april by the by summer like i'm like i'm going to be out of money like i need to figure out how to take care of my family so i like just got back and just started grind to make this work. And I opened the doors with like 180 students, which, you know, back then and day one, you were making good money.

Yeah, I was able to take care of my family right away. So coming out, so anybody on the outside looking at this would have thought, you know, I was being successful. But, I mean, I was still dealing with panic, like, debilitating panic attacks. I was a tyrant to my family. Like I'm not a, I'm like a pretty like kind person, like especially, like, love my, love my family. tremendously and but at that time I was like yelling at my wife like a Marine Corps drill instructor punching holes in the wall slamming doors breaking things uh it was one time I came home like from

my little girl's birthday and she's having a birthday party and she didn't like the icing on her cake like something super simple and like picked up my little girl's cake and threw it against the wall and destroyed my little girl's birthday and I remember like what kind of person what kind of dad behaves that way and I was just so out of control that I just started isolate myself more because I I just felt like it was a behavior that I couldn't get hold of. So really this manifested, all this bad behavior from you manifested in your wife filing for divorce. Yeah, because. I'm done with this shit.

Well, really, I think she was trying so hard. Like, she's like a really strong one of faith. She was like, she was like trying so hard. And, uh, but our marriage just kind of me, isolating myself and marriage just like drifted apart. So I'd sleep in friends house at the gym. I had like a place to sleep at the gym. I would sleep my kids room. My wife and I talk now a lot about it.

Like the loneliest place we've ever been is not me away in deployment, but in our own beds like our backs turned to each other and just like a dead marriage. And so we were just like really separating our own home, staying together for the kids. And, you know, there's a lot of girls around jiu-jitsu's and jihitsu gyms. And so it didn't take long for me to end up in relationships with other women. So I ended up in a full-blown affair and didn't really give me care. Like that was so little empathy that I didn't even care. So when my wife found out, the solution was, let's just get divorced.

This isn't working anyway. And so we filed for divorce. Moved in two separate apartments, signed 12-month leases. So we were pretty committed, you know, sold our home that we worked too hard to buy. And my wife and I had two really different reactions. She went into a church. She changed churches. She went into a church to be around people that she thought would be, like, really supportive, like a good positive group.

Not people that would be like, oh, your husband's a jerk anyway. Like it was people that would like give her good support. And, uh, and she said, you know, she would go in there, not just on Sundays, but like, every like couple of days a week and just pray for me. And, you know, she's people would wonder, you know, what could a woman pray for you? And when you'd be in them behaving that way. And she said you would pray like, God, let me see Chad the way you see Chad. Let me love Chad the way you love Chad.

Let me forgive Chad the way you forgave Chad. Like that's what she was like doing this for me while I'm like running around with women. And I'm like, my reaction was I got this apartment, bachelor pad set up in like two days. family pictures outside. I had all my family pictures. It's kind of grotesque for me to say, but had all my family pictures on a shelf in my closet. So like when girls come over, they wouldn't see that stuff. And it's like totally being a degenerate. I signed up for a fight on strike force. There's like one of the last big strike force cards. UFC had owned strike force at the time. And so I just like dove into that. I'm like, I can stay busy. I don't have to

deal with this woman anymore. And I fought a kid named my Bertha de Leon. And we were like, it was like a highly touted fight because he was like, we're both in the area and he was like, I forget what his professional record was, but he was like really known for amateur because he went like 18 and O as an amateur. And he's like a really good striker. And they were talking smack about me being a ground guy

had submitted all my opponents, but I wouldn't strike. So ego got the best of me. I was feeling pretty good in the boxing. I stood in the middle of that cage with him. And it was like my rocky fight, like back and forth. I had submitted everyone before,

but now I go to a dissentage in every round like he punched me and knocked me down and I kicked him in the face and knocked him down. Even knocked his mouthpiece out like, a good teak kick to the face. It was like a pretty good fight. And at the end, I remember they're like, they're like gonna announce a decision.

And I'm like, oh my gosh, like what happened? I don't even remember what happened. And my corner's like, it's gonna be close, man. And I'm like, and they call, the one judge calls for Hbertoil, the others for me. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I just lost my first fight. And then the third judge calls for me. My hands raised and 10,000 people screaming.

And I remember like having this moment, you know, you've been in that cage, like, people were screaming. And it's like loud and like deafening, but like everything got quiet. And I remember thinking like, man, all these people here and Kathy's not here. And I just fought so hard for this stupid, like,

which I love Jiu-Jitsu, right? But in context, right? I fought so hard for this stupid win on my record. But meanwhile, my family's, like, devastated. And that's when I went home that night with my head held. I just went, me and Tim Kennedy, because he fought in that card. We had an after-fight party, Ranger up through it for us at Buffalo Wild Wings. I stopped in, checked in, went home to my apartment.

And I was laying in bed just realizing, like, man, I'm like, what do I have, like, my life? Like, everything that I'm good at is over. my life's like I don't have any purpose moving forward my family's the only thing I have and I destroyed them and I'm in and a and a stall came over me like maybe my family would be sad without me but they'd be better off and you know that you know that same hopeless thought I find a home in the hearts of 20 something veterans every single day and I didn't want to take my life to escape my situation I thought it was the betterment for the betterment of my family and and uh and I really had believed that um and I made the decision to do that so you made the decision you're going to kill yourself yeah yeah yeah that night after you freaking one strike force yeah yeah well I was laid in my bed that night that's when I decided and I wasn't gonna tell anybody I didn't want anyone to intervene the one thing that would saw it sit in that closet I put my I literally put my family pictures on the floor around me and like and I had that Glock 22

pistol and when I put the gun to my head I would have this vision of like how it play out like somebody's gonna find you somebody's gonna hear a gunshot you're not gonna show up somewhere it's an apartment you can start smelling like someone's someone's gonna find you and the only other person had a key to my apartment at a time was my oldest son hunting who's 13 at the time. So, and I had heard a statistic that one in three children from a parent that commit suicide would do it as well.

And so that thought would come in my mind. I'm like, man, my son's going to find me. So that was enough to pump the brakes, but I'd be such a dark place. I'd be back at it. Like I was convinced that that was the right thing to do. I convinced myself of that. And then that's when Kathy came.

I was in that class. How long were you in that mindset for? About two weeks. And I'd snap out of it, but I was just like this looming. It was almost like this feeling like, like I'm driving. driving like there's a pole I could just turn my wheel or you know standing the edge of

building like I just I just have to jump like have bottle pills next to me like I just have to then it's done like I just had this like it was just like almost like this like almost like a spiritual like influence like just like and you know I'm not saying that's what it was but it was just like something just looming that was just like there for like and I had thought about it a lot before but in that two weeks I was like committed to do it and and but I just could not get past that how to how to get past not leaving that for my kids and and and then that's when Kathy came to my apartment I was literally a had that pistol and she knocked on the door I wasn't going to answer it because I didn't know who it was but when I heard her voice this is my apartment in my closet she would

never came in there but I panicked and I hid that gun under her blanket which was probably because of shame and I went to the door and I was so it sounds twisted to say but I was so mad that she was there interrupting me killing myself that I just started screaming at her and she's not a very calm arguer but but in that moment she was like she was like totally calm and she asked me that question you know how could you do all the stuff she'd like laid out all this stuff and weight cutting was always a big thing to her because she's like the amount of discipline like I could like having I love Doritos like I don't eat them now but I had but like just to lick I wouldn't even lick the nacho cheese off in a in a house by myself like that kind of

discipline she's like how could you do all of that because she had to see all that you know and how could you do all of that but when it comes to your family you'll quit what was it that brought her over that specific night. How does she explain that? She had talked to me that morning. I don't recall the conversation, but she had an intuition that I was going to hurt myself. And she had,

she just, she just said she just knew something was wrong, something was off, and she felt like I was going to hurt myself. And I didn't say anything to allude to that, but she just had that women's intuition. You say this in the book. Kathy was attending church

and praying for me, my recovery, and our family, I asked if she could find a man at her church to counsel me and provide accountability. That led to Steve Toth entering my life and leading me to become a Christian. Before then, I would say I was a Christian. I wore military dog tag that claimed I was one, but for the first time in my life, I surrendered my life to Jesus. After my recovery, I created a ministry called the Mighty Oaks Foundation to help combat veterans and those from the military communities suffering from PTSD and life issues to move beyond life's hardships and into the life God created us all to live. Over 20 veterans a day were committing suicide and I felt compelled to tell every struggling veteran I could

the lesson I had learned during my journey. In life, just like in combat, we aren't meant to fight alone with Mighty Oaks. They wouldn't have to. So that's when you started the Mighty Oaks Foundation. Yeah, you know, I tried everything. I had been on a medication. I'd been through all counseling at the VA and civilian counseling programs and financial success. Like you said, a jihitsu, professional success, I had to acclades.

Like some of those things are good. Some of those things are bad, but none of those things really changed my situation. And, you know, when Steve, you know, I had literally, like, wrote a five-paragraph order, an op order of how I was going to fix my life. I met him at a Starbucks. I wanted him to show it to my wife. So I, like, proudly and smuglessly. it over to him and he didn't even look at it and he just let it back over to me and told me I was

going to fail. I remember being like super offended, but then he tapped in a paper and he said if this plan doesn't have anything to do with your relationship with God, I'm not going to waste your time. I'm not going to let you waste mine. And like I said, I tried everything. And so it was one thing that I had never really been intentional about. And so I made a decision to surrender my life to Christ, become a Christian. But beyond that, Steve mentored me an entire year and what would be called discipleship, you know, biblical living and teaching me how to how to make better choices. And that's what I really discovered, like, as bad as, like, some things I've been in my life, like, you know, like the loss of friends, and you know the pain that comes with that and my childhood

and all these bad things had happened to me. As bad as those things were, those things didn't leave me to be in that closet of my hand. When it led me there were the choices that I made in response to those things. And so I had really inventory in my life through his mentorship that Steve has given me, like the reason I was going on the trajectory I was going was, I was just making bad choices. And so as Steve started mentoring me in his biblical living, I still had anxiety. I still had depression. I still dealt with anger and frustration, but now I had a blueprint for making better choices. And I was super intentional about that. I'm kind of that way. If I'm all in on something, I'm going to be all in. So it's very intentional, very disciplined

about it. And by being intentional about it, I started seeing restoration in my own brokenness and my own anxiety, depression. I started feeling like finding healing in it. And I started finding restoration of my family. Our family, now we've been married 27 years and three amazing kids. They're all married two of them went to bible college two of them went to marine corps i got two granddaughters one in the way like we have this amazing family and i found hope again and ultimately i found purpose uh through that and a purpose manifested in like a real deep burden i believe god put them a heart to share that lesson with others and that manifested in the founding of mighty oaks foundation you know and that was 12 years ago and over the last 12 years i've spoken to half million active duty troops of run that we run

our recovery program we do about five to six million dollars year in programming free for active duty veterans first responders or spouses at five ranches we have around the country do this recovery we're doing like 35 camps a year and about about thousand people for a year we put through it as a week loan camp and then we do we have a program with policy to fight and navigate for veterans faith-based veterans care in dc i was on the chair i was the chairman of white house's faith-based coalition in 2018 and 19 and then we have our international program we go around the world to their allied partners and give those same principles at mighty oaks that we help U.S. service members. We help people and our partners around the world. And I've been to

Ukraine like 10 times since February helping the Ukrainian troops out there. So that's kind of what this all manifested into. It's just paying it forward. Honestly, that's all it is for me. Mighty Oaks is just an opportunity to pay forward. You know, the second chance that Kathy gave me, the second chance that God gave me, the mentorship that Steve gave me. It's just, it's been to pay it forward. And we don't just help veterans. We teach them to do the same and really empower them to do the same for others and that's why it's become like it's grown so fast because you know the discipleship process is just replicating and replicating and not just helping people but equipping him to be part of the solution yeah I know uh we were talking about our mutual friend Matt who is a seal who

he's on the board I guess of yeah but he was he was he was even more engaged involved with mighty oaks and he was the guy that I would call if someone reached out to me that was really having issues uh and I remember one time you know we were talking and and like just to and I don't want to say the specifics because I don't know you don't want to break any privacy of anyone but a guy had checked in who was like severely wounded from self-inflicted um from a self-inflicted situation and you know he was able to take this guy who had tried very hard to kill himself and we're able to get this guy kind of back on track and that to me was a real test. him to what you guys are doing. And, you know, we already talked about Lou, like my buddy Lou, who I was at Team 3 with, just an awesome guy and how he had some significant struggles. And, you know, just to see his life turn around.

It's just awesome to see. So, yeah, the things that you guys are doing with Mighty Oaks is just outstanding. How long was it before your wife and you got back together? Like, when did you guys get back under the same roof? Yeah, so I'm like, yeah, I'm pretty. pretty radical personality. So I'm like, when they made this decision, I'm like, hey, I'll, like, you don't have to trust me.

Like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna fix this. The same character, that work ethic, the discipline you're talking about, like, I'm gonna fix this. Like, I'll cause the problems, we're gonna fix this. So I'll, I'll sleep on your back porch, but, but I'm coming home. And I mean, I had an apartment, she had an apartment, but I'm going to where you are. And she's like, you're not coming back. And I'm like, I'll sleep outside.

Like, I'll cause the damage to do this. She didn't make me sleep outside, but she let me in the couch and, and, uh, I'm Eventually I worked my way back in our bedroom, but it was probably a year of really like deliberate like work to put our put my marriage back together That first phase and then and then it probably took like five or six years to really heal from From what I'd done, but but that that first year was like me making decision Because I'm pretty prideful like so when I think like hey things are fixed now like like we should do you put this behind us That's kind of my mentality. I think most men

mentality but for me it was like realizing like I heard her like she's getting me entitled to being hurt lashing out throwing things back in my face like I had to make the decision that was allowed that to happen because otherwise we would have never been able to get through it because that was I would go I come home sometimes she was happy I was home sometimes she was like you disgust me like I don't want you in the same house as me like she was hurt and I hurt her I did you know betrayed her in a worst way a husband could betray a wife so I had to I had to really work through that and then luckily that mentorship with Steve was like

I'm like, man, like, why she's throwing this stuff in my face again, that she wants to sabotage us? And he's like, man, like, did you not betray her? Did you not break her trust? Did you not, like, you know, does she not have a reason to not trust you? Like, all those things were like, yeah, I got to, so I'm going to have to be the one that just bites the bullet on this and let her hurt, let her bent, let her, you know, throw things back in my face

until we, so she gets it out of her system and earn that trust back. So that's what I did. By the way, you got another book called Fight for a, which I didn't read the whole thing normally I didn't realize about this book until a little late But but but there's a bunch of really good sections in there so check that book out as well And that's basically about well it says win back the marriage God intends for you so this is about you know relationships But you've also got a bunch of cool stories in there actually you cover your time the police force This is really good book as well

Meantime well you got this going on 2011 April 16th you you lose your I think this is your first fight that you lose in Bellator. Fought Bellator champ. Zach McCoskey was the champ at the time. And so, you know, went right in to Belator, fighting the champ. No one wanted to fight Zach at that time. And I was like, heck yeah, you know.

Let's go. Let's go. Yeah, man, he's an awesome guy. At the time, I thought he was one of the best fighters in the world. And that opportunity to compete, you know, you always, if you're a real fighter, you like, you want to compete against the very best. And I had the chance to compete against him. Yeah.

You fought again, July 22nd. You lost in a guillotine, first round, quick. What happened, bro? I know, man. You know that one, did you listen to when I had Tim Kennedy on the podcast? Did you listen to that? It's funny. Like, people pointed out to me, I was, I'd be like, bro, you lost.

I was so hurt that he lost because I'd be rooting for Tim so hard, like when he was fighting. So when he'd lose, I'd be like, bro, what happened, man? What happened? You know, it was at Mokovsky, it was like, but people was like, that's your first loss. Like, how'd that hurt? I'm like, man, I was my best. I wasn't injured. Like, that was the best me and Zach was better.

Like that first loss, it didn't bother me. I was like, I mean, I'm a competitor, so I don't want to lose, but I was like, it's going to make me step up, right? The next one, the guillotine, that eats me. And it was still. Wasn't it quick? It was quick. So I went out kind of laxed.

I usually, like, come out pretty aggressive, and I went out kind of laxed. And he rushed me. And he's like 15 and 2. I mean, he's a good record, but I felt like I should have beat him like 10 out of 10. And he rushed me and I went back against the fence. fell and I and I like thought that I couldn't get need or anything so I reached for his legs and he need me but not with a knee with a quad so it was legal and uh and it and I woke up in a guillotine I got I guess I got up and I did two singles put him now with two singles and on a second

single the first when he came back up the second single I did I didn't remember doing it and it was like out but it's muscle memory man you just oh so you were on the ground and he need you but he luckily for him hit you with his thigh and not his knee and so they've declared it legal Yeah, and he probably meant to do it that way. I don't know, I don't know, but I woke up in a guilty. I remember waking up dreaming I was drowning. And that's, and I was like, what happened? Man, I couldn't believe I lost that fight.

And I had like all the Brooke Army Medical Center brought like the whole wounded war unit there. They had all these guys there, like in wheelchairs and the burn unit, they were all there. And I like, ah, it hurt, it stung. You did win, again, May 2012, you win Legacy FC, North South choke, round one. That was a UFC vet, Joe Sandoval.

No, it's a good win. What I think was your last pro fight was 2013, October 26th, World Series of fighting, and you won again with the North South choke. Yeah, that's my joke. That's your joke. We need to do a private, and you can give me your details. I tried to get Jeff with it, Jeff Riel. Oh, Jeff Rial.

You were coaching against that. I couldn't get it on him. It's messed my choke, and I was trying to get it on him, and I couldn't get it on him. Yeah, that's good. I get everyone with it and he, I get everyone with it and I was in a position for it and he escaped. Oh, Jeff's a, jeff's a freaking scrappy kid, man. Yeah. Yeah.

I did. Did you win by points or judge's decision or whatever? Judge's decision, yeah. Yeah, that's one of those ones where they hold up the flags at the end? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Was that fight to win? Something like that.

What year was that? Oh gosh, I don't know, like five, six years ago, seven years ago. Yeah. Now during this time, you know, you know, you know, yeah, yeah. You're doing Mighty Oaks. You're, you know, you're obviously still fighting. You, and with Aziz, you're kind of keeping intermittent calms with him. Yeah.

Because, you know, all the stuff's classified and you're just not wide open talking to him. Your son's going to Marine Corps. Yep. Which is awesome. How did you feel about that? Man, I was super pumped because, you know, my oldest son Hunter always wanted to be Marine. And then the family footsteps, you know, he wasn't. what's to work at Mighty Oaks one day.

So he's going to Bible College and then he's like, I want to go to Marine Corps. He wants to be a recon Marine and I talk to him because he's like also wanna be a husband and dad. I'm like, probably shouldn't pick being a recon Marine. And so I kind of like sat down with him and figured out what he liked the most. And he was super interested in aircraft.

So I showed him about Anglico, which is like a JTAC, a little small four-man teams that go in bed with foreign nationals and he loves working with other countries. So I thought, man, you could get to work with all the different foreign militaries, get to call fire, call in air support. So that's what he didn't. He ended up deploying the Afghanistan with the with the Georgians with the Georgians. He was embedded with the Georgian infantry. And so he got to actually, even in 2018, you got to actually go in and do kinetic, kinetic operations, call in fire support. And then what about your other son? He went in to be a, he went in to be crash fire rescue. So he had always wanted to be a firefighter. My wife's family's firefighters. There you go. And so he did a little merger of both. And he actually got out with the VACs. He did not want to get the VACs. And, uh, and, and, uh, and, uh, uh, and, uh,

And I supported him. He was, he was kind of worried that our family would end 84 years of service with that, you know? And I'm like, hey, man, like, if you're doing it for the right reasons and that's your convictions, like I'm going to, I got your back. And what about now? Are they going to let him back in or whatever? They're asking him to come back in now. So his was called other than honorable discharge. Oh, come on.

For a commission of a serious offense. And, but he, we had like some serious, like, consultation. You're down in Houston? We're in Houston, yeah. Is that Dan Crenshaw's freaking district? It is, yeah. to give Dan a call, man. That's totally ridiculous.

It is. Other than honorable? Other than honorable, yeah. Yeah, and he was like honor grad at a boot camp. Like, I mean, squad leader at boot camp, honor grad out of his M.S school. Like he, he, he, he did, he's like, he was, you know, and he was about to get meritorious promote corporal.

And they were like, then the backs came up. So he did, he did religious exemption. And then they did the appeal and then the appeal to the commandant. And then when he went to do the do the, appealed to the sect secretary of navy they wouldn't send it up and so he filed like the whistleblower thing and and reported a commission reported unlawful order because of some of the details about the VACs was you know a lot of people would agree as unlawful order and so that was kind of end it for him and they discharge him well but he'll probably go back in I think he's going to go back

into reserves good for him so you're doing all this stuff and like I said you're you're Communications with disease relatively, you know, intermittent at the time. And again, you got a bunch of details about all this lessons that you learned along the way, you know, in both these books. And you have another book too, which I got the Kindle version of I don't have. And that one's called Never Unfair Advantage. That's really, really cool. Kind of focused on your on your work in special operations. But I'm going to fast forward now.

It's summer of 2021. Biden has already announced that you know America's gonna leave on this date Regardless of what the circumstances are that's when we're leaving things are going things are going south they're going south quick I'm gonna go here to this is chapter five of the book and and it's it's the name of the chapters is Who surrendered to the Taliban so here we go based on reports I heard from contacts in Afghanistan the Taliban seemed emboldened following the United States Not the date not terms announcement the Taliban was starting to sweep its way across the country with Kabul its winner take-all target although we were still committed to the SIV process

and that's that's a special immigrant visa for Aziz family and again I fast forward through a bunch of stuff you've had stuff you've already done you're working to get him out you're you're making connections you're trying to make it happen I'm fast forwarding past that stuff the situation on the ground was more severe than we were hearing back in the states I called Congresswoman Vicki Hartsler a member of the US House of Representatives from Missouri and a wonderful woman and leader. We had worked together through Mighty Oaks Foundation on policy related to faith-based solutions for veteran care.

I informed Representative Hartzler of the incredible service Aziz had provided for our country and that although he had reapplied for the SIV status on July 1st, 2021, he could not get into the U.S. Embassy in Kabul because of the COVID-19 restrictions. We have to help this guy, she told me. Representative Hartzler committed to doing what she could to push along his application. Although I trusted her, I had no faith in the actual SIV process. I knew I needed to go into Afghanistan and bring Aziz and his family out. My teammate, Andy and I had already been discussing possible options for saving Aziz. At the end of one of our phone calls, I said I wanted to move forward. Andy immediately said he was on board.

And fast forward a little bit here. I pitched to the proposal to Richie McGinnis, a journalist with the Daily Caller who had interviewed me for many stories about Mighty Oaks and veteran issues. I'd enjoyed working with McGinnis. I respected him and like me. He loves a little adventure. I described for McGinnis how his organization would be our cover by saying they were working on a story out of Afghanistan regarding the withdrawal. They would hire me as their consultant, Andy, as head of security and Aziz as a local culture expert. after getting what we needed in Afghanistan for our piece, we would fly by private jet to Dubai for completion of the production work.

But we would need Aziz and his family to accompany us to be interviewed for their story. Then Aziz and his family would remain in Dubai and of course never return to Afghanistan. McGinnis was all in for both the story and to get Aziz out and his boss is at the daily caller granted our plan an enthusiastic green light. I crunch the numbers and estimated our operation will cost $65,000. I believe God has an impeccable timing on how he orchestrates events. That same day, I received a call from Wayne Hughes, Jr., a dependable friend, advisor, and longtime generous supporter of Mighty Oaks. Wayne had read an article about a Army Special Forces guy who wanted to get his interpreter

out of Afghanistan. Do you know this guy? Wayne asked, I want to help with this Afghanistan thing, and I'm thinking about giving to this. I don't know him, I told Wayne, but I'm actually wanting to do the same thing for my interpreter. I was literally planning as you called. Why didn't you tell me he asked? I explained how I appreciated everything he had done for our foundation over the years and didn't want to ask for anything more How much do you need? He asked about $65,000. I replied

Wayne responded without hesitating done So that's like your initial plan That's the initial plan. Yeah Pretty good plan. It was yeah I thought it was good and a man Richard McGuinness was a he was on all that stuff you seen up fox like undercover with Antifa and BLM that he was under He was a he was a a embed it with them and uh And he's like, a pretty cool guy. And I was like, man, he'd be down for this. And they talked to Tucker.

And everybody's like, yeah, that sounds like great. For us to get a story, whatever they do, they do, like whatever we did. But they're like, it's a great way for them to get a story. And then, I mean, things just start moving fast. You go here. On August 11th, the media reported that one U.S. official admitted Afghanistan could fall to the Taliban within 90 days. I'm going to fast forward a little bit on August 12th. So that's August 11th.

Then on August 12th, and I mean, obviously we all remember this happening, but it's interesting when you hear the dates. On August 12th, the Taliban was taking over so quickly. They now faced no resistance. The Pentagon announced the deployment of 3,000 U.S. troops immediately to evacuate diplomatic personnel from the U.S. embassy in Kabul. Not that a defeat would have been admitted, but sending troops in after declaring the withdrawal of our military had to be the last thing the White House wanted to do. The withdrawal wasn't transpiring as planned. Unfortunately, the mounting problems were so predictable. The following day, Kandahar.

Next, Mariza Sharif, the capture of Afghanistan, second, third largest cities on consecutive days revealed the Taliban's military strength because the ANA still maintained an operating base in Kandahar. The Taliban had to go into those places with a militant force intimidating enough to compel resistance fighters to surrender. So this was just a freaking disaster across the board. Fast forward a little bit more. And again, you give great detail. You have a very cool perspective that you put in the book because Aziz is there. You're talking to him. So you're getting his perspective.

It's a great way you did that in the book. You say the results of the White House not having a plan unfortunately manifested on the events of Sunday, August 15th, a sad day in the histories, both of Afghanistan and the United States. The Taliban took over the capital city of Kabul that day with no resistance. President Ashraf Ghani. I want to do like an entire series of podcast about this. this miserable human being. Fled the country. Hauling possibly close to $170 million with him.

We later learned. And the Afghan government collapsed. Afghan. And what's funny about Ghana, you know, Ghani was like a professor at Berkeley, I think, where he taught,

like, how to save failing countries. He taught this course. And, you know, just ridiculous. Where is he at now with all that money?

Yeah. Afghan government collapsed. Afghans flocked in the thousand, to Kabul airport looking to escape. Also that day, the American flag flying over the U.S. embassy in Kabul was lowered and the embassy evacuated. You go on to say in 1975, the U.S. military pulled out of the Vietnam War, but the diplomats, contractors, CIA employees, and Marine guards remained behind.

When the North Vietnamese took over South Vietnamese capital of Saigon, a hurried mass evacuation of Americans began. The final American, Saigon, were first forced to evacuate. via helicopters landing in the embassy's parking lot and on the roof. The word humiliating is often used to describe that moment in U.S. history. Five weeks before we evacuated our Kabul in embassy, President Biden had assured Americans there would be no such repeat of history. There's going to be no circumstance will you see people being lifted off the roof of the embassy of the United States from Afghanistan, he said.

Obviously, we all saw those pictures. Kabul was Saigon all over again. Contacts on the ground were telling me that the Taliban, surrounded our embassy and weren't allowing personnel out embassy workers could not get into a car and drive four miles to the airport they had to be flown out via helicopter how we left the embassy proved the Taliban was calling the shots and they knew it we did not hand over the embassy to the Taliban no diplomacy was involved helicopters flying off the roof is not a peaceful transition that's a retreat the Taliban took our embassy from us august 15th was a day of defeats the afghans lost their

country to the Taliban for Americans our military did not suffer defeat but the US government with blood on its hands lost to the Taliban yeah I think one of the biggest lies the American people were given with Afghanistan was that we were in this 20-year war this endless war that we had to leave and I think one of the things President Trump could have did in 2018 was declared the war over and shifted to it and announced to support an Abadjra role because that's what actually happened so in 2018 and most most Americans don't understand that this but we we were we moved to support and advisory rule of the Afghan National Army

Afghan National Police and the international community all participated and we're we did it at Boggham Air Force Base which is the most strategic place in the globe right now between Iraq Iran Russia and China and and it was working we were supporting and lifting up the Afghan National Army to keep the Taliban at bay and keep terrorism where it belongs in the mountains of Afghanistan and not here and out and not become a global threat or national security threat so like this push to withdraw from Afghanistan was just a lie. I mean, it's not even consistent with our traditional like military strategy. We have 80,000 troops still in Japan since World War II and 40,000 in Germany, 35,000

in South Korea. We had 2,500 troops at one point in Afghanistan. Why would we want to give up that base? And in doing so, we didn't even talk to NATO. We didn't talk to the Afghan government we put in place. We talked to the Taliban, our enemy of 20 years, that we did this Doha agreement, which The Doha Agreement basically says that they won't allow terrorism. They are terrorists. And we're seeing right away, they're starting to execute people day one as they're coming out of Pakistan. I mean, it was just insane to me.

Yeah. When you're going to support a country that's trying to change the way that they've lived, it takes generations to do that. And you pointed out to three examples, right? Korea, Germany, Japan. It takes generations. to get them to be stable on their own. And that's what it takes, but we weren't fighting a war

anymore in Afghanistan. The war that we had been fighting was over. Was over. You know, we hadn't taken casualties. I think we hadn't taken a casualty in 18 months, something like that. So those, the war was over. And 2,500 troops, we have that.

I can name 10 places right now, Djibouti, Africa, Syria, Iraq, they're all over the world. That's not a lot of troops. And, you know, so the eye, idea that we don't want to stay in sustained wars, these contingent forces prevent war. It brings stability in regions. And so for us to give up, I mean, now we're looking at potential war with China without even a strategic location like Boggham there. China, China actually is who's occupying the base now, not the Taliban. Ridiculous. Fast forward

a little bit in the book. As rapidly as the situation in Afghanistan was spiraling out of control, an effort to save his ease was coming together in equally stunning fashion so quickly that it could only described as God thing, orchestrated in a divine way that I could not explain. Andy, give us a brief on who Andy is. Yeah, well, Andy is like a long-time friend. He was on that first J-Soc Task Force with me, and there's a lot of experience,

and he's the one to actually recruited Aziz in the first place to bring him on with us. Got it. So you're working with him again, and you say Andy and I started connecting with our network of operators who might be interested in going into Afghanistan with us. We specifically wanted guys who had deployed to Afghanistan. We're from the special operators,

the community, off experience and most importantly had a heart to rescue vulnerable people instead of look to get in a fight with the Taliban to sow their war lust oats. We ended up quickly assembling a core group of operators who were highly experienced, trusted, and rightly motivated. Yeah, I think it was a big thing that we were looking for. I didn't want anyone to go there like to go get some. Right. That's like this isn't the place for that. You had 20 years to do that.

Like right now we're going not to be combatants. And that was very important to pick mature guys. and so we had some, we had a couple of SF guys, recon guys, some guys from ground branch that were able to be part of our team. And a very experienced group of guys

all had that same kind of passion and motivation that we had just to go do the right thing. And that's what I call it. We all have pretty strong people of faith, I think. Everybody, we called the Task Force 6-8 from diverse Isaiah 6-8 here,

my, send me. And that's what we called it. And, you know, it was originally all just to go get his ease and his wife and kids. but it changed, obviously. You talk about a key person and not just the operators, but you say God started bringing groups of like-minded people together,

and we began consolidating our efforts. One such person was Sarah Varardo, Sarah Varardo, whom I met through the Mighty Oaks. Sarah's husband, Michael, was catastrophically wounded by two separate IED attacks in Afghanistan in 2010. The blasts took Michael's left leg and much of his left arm. He has endured more than 100 surgeries plus years of speech, visual, physical, and occupational therapies for his body and traumatic brain injury.

Sarah became a champion for wounded veterans and their caregivers through volunteering with the Independence Fund. She eventually became the fund's first CEO. In addition to the direct help, the Independence Fund provides wounded veterans and their families. Sarah has become an effective influencer in Washington, D.C. of national policies related to military and veteran causes. As I worked parallel efforts in D.C. through Mighty Oaks, Sarah and I joined forces over the past four years to impact veterans' health care policy.

And so she plays a huge role in this. Huge. I mean, she's very sharp. She's very connected. And obviously, she has a very personal vested interest in Afghanistan. I mean, she pretty much lost her husband, you know, lost who he was when they got married. She's like his caretaker now. And so she was very, you know, it was very passionate about this.

And so she was one of the first people that I connected with in this because I knew she had the ability to move the needle on making things happen. Access is important, especially when you're in a DOD control, the evacuation. So access is important. So I knew she could help with that. Other guys, you know, Tim Kennedy, Nick Palmeschano, guys I can't mention their names. I mentioned Joe Roberts' name, but some really incredible group of guys. And, you know, as we're putting this together, uh, one of the guys picks up his phone and puts it down and just like, uh, hey, this, uh, there's these 3,500 orphans and they just got left.

I mean, because people are surviving. Like they're, the 35 provinces fall, people are surviving. So like these kids just got left. Like, uh, you know, Andy and this guy Sean were like, we need to go get these orphans. And that's kind of shifted from let's get as easy as wife and kids, but let's get as many Americans, interpreters, their families, women, children that'd be persecuted. Let's get as many people as we can. And we have like this incredible group of people.

We're all willing to do it. Let's just go all in. And that's what I said. We got a lot of credit. Like we got recognizing the house floor. We got, I got that Bonhofer Achievement Award. Like we got all these things with the truthfully. Like the only thing I feel like I could take credit for is that we were just,

we had that burden of the we got put in our heart and we said yes. And beyond that, like, I'm not smart enough capable enough to pull off what happened. Because it was like it was literally like some things happened. And like that's why I said the only way to describe it was like a divine miracle. because any one of those things that happened, the way they happened in a sequence of events, the whole thing would have been fall apart. The first was Sarah calling the Joint Chiefs

and getting permission for us to be able to go in a DOD-controlled H-Kaya Airport, how many Carter than in the offshore airport, has civilians to possibly land like commercial aircraft or foreign military aircraft and go outside the wire to rescue people. Like, that's like a, I mean, you were an officer. That's like a no.

That's a no. Yeah. But in a number of, miraculous turn of events. They said yes. And then we had to figure out how to get people. These are visa applicants now. Like so they said yes, but we have to be able to give our manifest to the joint chiefs. They have to approve. So we have to be very diligent on who we're getting, how we're getting them, have a bona fides process to prove rapidly who they are. And then we have to build to move people that are visa applicants across the border of another country. We can't

bring them to the United States because we're not the state department. So we have to find somewhere to take them because that's human trafficking. And the only place you could do that is like Laredo, Texas, I think. But outside of that, in the real world, you have to follow rules. And so we called the royal family. We had some people that need a royal family of the United Arab Emirates, and we asked for permission. We were on his phone call for like an hour, and I thought, man, he's, there's no one's saying

anything. I'm like, they were just rolling her eyes like these idiots. But at the end of that phone call, they were like, we'll roll out the right carpet. We bring them here. We have a humanitarian center. We have doctors, food, facilities. We're going to take care of. Just get them here.

And he said, if you need an aircraft, we'll give you a C-17 plane, the large military aircraft with pilots and if you fill that one up they'll give you a second one and then the third thing that happened was glen beck radio show host a friend of mine glenbeck called and he said chat i just got into radio to raise money i thought i could raise a few thousand dollars because i just wanted to do something so he got behind his microphone he said in three days i raised 21 million dollars overall he raised 46 million he's like what do i don't have an operation so i said start chartering planes and so mercury won's his non-profit they partnered with us at mighty oaks and they started chartering a guy named Rudy Atala, who's a veteran, amazing dude,

start chartering planes for us. And so all that came together in like three days to launch this operation. Yeah, it's freaking. It's crazy. I mean, like, it's a crazy amount of stuff. And you got great, you got stuff about the team in here. You know, you got Andy.

You got Tim Kennedy, you know. What did you say about Tim? A member of U.S. Army Special Forces, Greenbrae, sniper, top 10 UFC fighter, well-known TV personality from history channels, hunting history. A series and discovery is hard to kill and a guy just crazy enough to try anything once And then you say the main reason I reach out to him because he's a trust quote

A friend and a legit operator beyond Tim's celebrity profile is extensive training in real world experience and soft operations He's not a has been he is still that guy and currently serves the special forces Operation Sergeant with the 20th special force group Tim's like I don't know how Tim does what Tim does He gets a lot of heat for like being like people go after him. But man, and people don't realize he's like he's legit like operating. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

You know, like you said, you got Nick Palmishano. Palmishano. He's another guy that's a stud, you know. He's a Ranger, West Point guy. Super smart. Yeah. I mean, you just put together this guy, sea spray. Sea spray was the kingpin of a lot of this.

And what would some of the stuff in Ukraine, highly intelligent guy, Green Beret, you know. served with, you know, the premier, like special operations in the Intel side. He's, he lost 37 pounds in the 10 days we were on the ground doing everything. He did not stop. Like he didn't eat, didn't stop. He just like kept going out and getting people. It was a, he's an incredible human being.

Yeah. And then your son, Hunter. Yeah. What's deal with this? Well, he's like, dad, I'm going. I'm getting ready. And he's like, what are you talking? I'll go to your room.

Like he's like, he's like, you know, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a man now I've been to Afghanistan like I'd interpret it too like I want to be part of this and I'm like and so I just kind of thought for a second like man like how horrible would it be for me to like take that away from him you know and I mean obviously I don't want him involved in this because of his dad I want to protect him but how horrible would they be to take that away from him and me have to face that no I took away from him for the rest of his life so so you know he ended up in Abu Dhabi really just he's a he's a super smart you know kid and he's like he just really organizes things

really well so he was like in it kind of earned his place there in Abu Dhabi and then and ultimately he wanted to come on the river operation with me but we didn't let him do that but but now he's it like in Ukraine like he's leading operations in Ukraine he's he's pretty smart you got it going on yeah he's a black belt too he's definitely got it going on fast forward a little bit again get the book but I'm gonna fast forward a little bit here after Kabul fell the first part of our task force 6 8 which you already talked about That's from Isaiah 6-8. Here I am.

Send me team headed overseas to set up a jock in the UAE. And again, the UAE, they're fighting terrorists in the UAE. The UAE is staunch allies of America. So it doesn't actually surprise me that they were ready to support. I remain in the United States for a few more days to continue working on operations logistics for when the team arrived in Afghanistan and to work with Sarah setting up the system for the flood of requests coming at us. Because that's another thing that's going on. And you talk about it in the book like now all of a sudden,

everybody knows that you're going to get people out. Everyone's putting in a request to you. Sarah worked the DC angles taking responsibility for coordinating with government officials to ensure we did everything legally. We were carrying out a moral cause, rescuing our fellow man. And we knew we had to precisely follow the law. You go on here. As of Friday, August 20th, we estimated 100,000 Americans and allies needed to be brought out of Afghanistan.

The next day, Sean, Sea Spray, and Dave flew from Abu Dhabi into Kabul as our first boots on the ground. Tim and Nick would fly later into the UAE with Hunter and me, and then Tim and Nick would travel on to Afghanistan. Once we had everyone in place, Andy, Joe, Hunter, and I, along with others would work operations and coordinate rescues from the jock in Abu Dhabi. Sean Seespray and Tim would be our three-man rescue team working outside the airport while Dave remained inside H. Kyah in to coordinate with the military. Nick would spend one day helping Dave and then return to UAE to work with us. So dude, this is like an incredible logistic freaking effort. It's like it was like insane.

So fast and it was like yeah, yeah, all and like I said, if any one of those things. If you were to say, hey, listen, I want you to evacuate 50,000 people from a country, how long do you need to plan and execute this? You'd be like, I need six months. Adam, that's if you are good. You make a look, I need six months. So the fact that you're doing this shit in three, whatever it is, four days, something like this, six days is absolutely freaking awesome. Yeah, it's just everybody just coming together. It was one of those moments.

There's always a little bit of ego everywhere. It was one of those moments that everybody had put all that aside and just work together to do the right thing. And everyone knew there was no time for that. There was no time to like, for posturing and position. I was just like, let's just lock arms and do it. That was rad when we had Tim on talking about this. Like, you know, Tim is just such a good, such a good dude. But he's like, yeah, I'm glad this happened when he, you know, he's glad it happened when he was, however old he is now, 30, 7 or 41 or whatever he is.

He's like, because he just was like, okay, what do we need to get done? Whereas if he, you know, if he was young, if he was being young Tim, which young Tim had to be a handful. We laughed a bunch about what a handful Tim, young Tim was. but yeah just the the fact that it wasn't just him but everyone on the team have all these badass experience people and they're all like what do we need to get done no egos let's rock and roll that's that's that's what made it happen yeah absolutely it was it was cool to see tim that way you know i've been knowing tim for a long time and tim was just like like what do you need carry like what do you need like he he was like where do you need me and uh and and honestly

it was like we need you on a ground team and he was like he wasn't going like seeking and everybody was giving a hard time for that like he was just like where do you need me and and he was just there to help. And by the way, like, he didn't need to do any of that. He's, like, he's pretty successful to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He didn't need to prove anything. He's got the profile.

He's got the bio. Like, he's got a successful. He didn't need to do any of that. He just wanted, he just wanted to help. Just trying to help out. Yeah. And for me, like, one of the other benefits for me is that, I know when I was putting this together, like, this is going to cost a lot of money and I have to raise it fast.

And, you know, I already have, like, mighty Oaks. I have to raise $6 million a year. Like, for Mighty Oaks, like, I need somebody else that can. could help be in the PR side. And so Tim wore that that too. And damn, Glenn Beck raised, what, 26 million? 46 total, 21 in like three days. And those, but those flights, like,

a lot of people don't realize those flights were like $800,000 a piece. You know, props to, obviously, to Glenn Beck, that's awesome. Also to the American people that are like, oh, I can afford to give a little bit to help these citizens out, to help these allies out.

That's why, like, I keep saying as I talk about this, like, so there was a time we were in Abu Dhabi, And it was a real perplexed by this because they had helped us rescue, get some Americans out, right? And so I was in this room and we were a couple of us were in there. There was the Minister of Interior. There was five generals. There was 20-something lawyers and a couple of royal family members. And I had to thank them rightfully for helping us get these Americans out when our government wouldn't.

And then I also had to apologize for our government, which I'm going. pretty proud patriotic dude so for me to apologize for our government was like something hard but uh but as i walked out i remember walking out just feeling ashamed and uh and then i thought for a second like you know what i'm ashamed of our of our government but i probably never have been more proud of being an american because when the government when our government did not do the right thing good people stood up and just did it and i don't mean just the 12 of us that went to do the rescues i mean like the thousands of people who donate it uh the people who just there was people that that don't like me that follow me on social media

because they don't like me, my conservative patriotic views. And so there were people that were following me that were writing me like, hey, I don't like you, but what you're doing is awesome. Where can I support? Like, you know, people like that. And there was a Jewish organization

that went to donate, write it about in the book. They went to donate $1.5 million for two flights. So $700,000 flight, $800,000 flight. And they were going to donate, and Mighty Oaks, you know, we're a Christian organization.

So they went to make the donation and they called me up and they said, hey, we can't make the donation? I was like, did I give you the routing number wrong? Like, like, no, you're a Christian organization. We're a Jewish organization. We can't make that transaction.

And I said, man, you, okay, but you realize we were rescuing Muslims, right? And he was like, the guy, like, laughed. And he was like, okay, let's do it. And it made a donation. It was like a really cool moment to see just people from all walks of life just come together and do the right thing for the fellow human. And it was pretty cool. And, you know, and again, the government didn't do the right thing, but people did.

Yeah. It was cool. Man. Get a little picture on the ground here. I'm going to fast forward a little bit. You got the at this point where I'm fast forwarding to the Taliban basically has External perimeter of H-Kaya so they're there they're around the airport they definitely control the outer perimeter They control the outer perimeter. We barely control the inner perimeter and you say I've flown in and out of H-Kaya many times the international airport is on the northeast edge of Kabul and densely populated residential areas are to its southwest and northwest but there are

also a bit of a buffer of open terrain around much of the airport the Taliban could not stand shoulder to shoulder to secure the airport perimeter because it was far too large of a land mass Imagine the major airport where you live you could cover access points and observe open areas but the perimeter would be porous The best way to locate the checkpoints was good old-fashioned walking and looking with the Taliban Executing people trying to escape the worst scenario would be for our rescue team to start smuggling people through an airport gate believe to be secure and then have the group compromised by the Taliban. So you've got people trying to recon, trying to figure out what's going on. I got to fast forward again,

but here we go. I had to do, so you're communicating with Aziz, and you say I had to do a lot of convincing for Aziz to make his eighth, and he said final attempt to reach the airport. So he's tried a bunch of times to get through. There's checkpoints everywhere. He's getting shot at.

He's got a much course seven years old or six years old at the time, His wife has a wound, infected appendix wound from surgery. Like it's... So he's got all that going on. You say because of the Taliban checkpoints, the Zero Zero's presence, massive crowds, the first seven attempts had failed.

Aziz had lost hope on the seventh. At night, I coordinated with Sean, who was waiting for the family at a gate when Aziz called and said they were turning around. He was covering seven-year-old Mashkarala's ears while talking to me and I heard shooting in the background. I'd heard shooting on the previous call too. I just need you to go for it. I pleaded with Aziz. With Bashir and his Taliban thugs looking

for Aziz and his family. And again, the backstory on a lot of this stuff is in the book. Bashir, obviously a bad guy. I believed it was more dangerous for them to turn back. But Aziz also knew the accounts of what the Taliban were doing around the airport. They were beating people. They were shooting them to death. They were cutting off heads and arms. They were tying a rope around people's necks and dragging them behind cars through the streets i can't brother he said mosh kraal is scared i've got to go back aziz didn't believe his children especially the youngest ones could take hearing more of the gunshots the Taliban were firing into the air to scare people or worse they'd witness the Taliban strike people to ground with the stocks of their guns they'd been pushed

and shoved within thousands of people outside the airport afghans had heard on the news as he said that the United States said it would accept anyone who worked for its government and also anyone who not worked for them as a ziz put it the people thought the door to paradise was open and being the closest to the airport gates was the only chance to get in man what a disaster aziz made attempts during the night and day by different routes and entrances but nothing he had he had tried worked after the seventh attempt he said the airport was too dangerous to try again so he would try and come up with a way to leave by foot into a bordering country. I didn't think Aziz could make it out of Kabul alive.

He had already been turned back at two Taliban checkpoints, and I didn't like his chances of avoiding being recognized a third time or being found by Bashir. I asked him to go to H. Kaya one more time. I trust you, brother, he said, I'll try one more time. So you're just, like, begging him to try and get there. Yeah, I remember telling him, like, bro, I've seen you do. harder stuff than this.

You, you, you, you, like, even if not for you, for your family, like, you have to get them out. I was, like, pulling that, like, do it for your family, like, like, muster it up, man, like, like, you got to keep going. And he was, like, he said his, like, legs were so weak that he could barely even stand up. He was, you know, he talks about a lot. It's like, if it was just him, you know, he threw guns in the back of his truck, went to the mountains and resist it. But he's got his kids, he's got his wife. And, I mean, there's one moment. Some of the stuff's not in the book, but he was like, he was like, he was,

like at his house, like putting guns and grenades and places and saying, okay, if they come from this way, he's got his wife here, he's got his daughter here, he's got his son here, like covering all their access. His family left, everyone left him. So like his family like wanted to disassociate with him. So he's like by himself and, and, you know, so he's like pretty desperate body. He's draining every day, you know, that the energy is draining out of him. He just, just kept having to, you know, to try to keep him motivated. Try it one more time. Yeah, and it's one thing to risk your own life, which you can do pretty easily, but when you're risking not just your life, but your life of your wife and children, that's a different...

And he's got this stuff playing through his head. He knows what's going to happen. They're going to, like, rape his daughters and, you know, and he's going to, you know, torture his family in front of him. Like, he's, you know, he knows what he's facing. It's not just like being killed. That's that kind of, that's that weight I fell back, you know, back in 2007 with when I was dealing with the stuff I was dealing with. I wouldn't worry about getting killed. I was worried about being in the bottom of basement that my feet smashed him. Chambers like those are the kind of things that really you know get you and that's what he was worried about yeah and it's real easy to sit here and um you know be distant from this stuff

look you saw it on the TV you saw someone getting you know they're getting shot getting executed you're on you're watching on TV you know or you read about it like they this is a real thing that they are watching they've seen it they know what's happening well they're seeing this bodies everywhere were trampled, people shot. They were taking babies. The level of desperation wasn't just people climbing airplanes. Imagine a mom like taking their baby and knowing that this baby is going to either become a sexual slave because it's a girl or it's going to become pushing to madrasas and become a Taliban, you know, evil terrorist because of the Taliban takeover. So now

your baby's only chance is to get it over that wall at the airport. So these moms are kissing their baby goodbye, putting it on top of a crowd of thousands of people to be crowd surfed to that wall. And whoever at the end of that it got to, somebody would grab that baby and throw it as hard and high as they could to get over that wall and a chance for survival. That's like the level of desperation. What they didn't know was another side. That wall was six feet high and 20 feet deep of Constantine wire. My buddy Joe counted six babies that had bled out in that wire because, you know, when Constantine wire is crimped, you can't really uncrimp it. So babies are in there.

That's the level of desperation. So he's trying to get his family through that. And, you know, people with Taliban shooting. He got shot at by the Taliban. He got shot at by the double zero units, the Marines shot at him because he's like, you know Chad Roby Show? Like he's, look him up on Google

and you're like, get the hell out of here, man. Like we don't know Chad Robes Show, like, and the Marines are shooting at him. Yeah, going back to the book here, you say, I messaged Sean and got on a call with him to tell him Aziz was in a different location and that Aziz would not be able to stay there long enough for Sean to get him.

Sean called inside H-Kaya to the senior enlisted leader of a US special operations team master sergeant H.Y Who had been helping us Sean briefed him on Aziz and H. Y agreed to go to the Northgate and meet Aziz and bring him inside We linked everyone up through WhatsApp and H. Y told Aziz that he and his team were on their way to meet them outside the airport The area was relatively calm allowing Aziz to wait there. He spotted a small pararescue team exit the north gate across the road from where he was standing about 50 yards away, but they were wearing body armor and in helmets and Aziz couldn't recognize if it was HY's group. Aziz climbed onto a large, shaky rock, and while trying not to shift his weight too much and flip the rock over, he yelled, HY, H.Y, this is Aziz.

But H.Y didn't hear Aziz. Then Aziz saw a teammate next to H.Y get his attention and point toward Aziz. By now, Aziz had raised the awareness of zero-zero's and Marines securing the gate. The zero-zero's pushed Aziz to trying to get him to back away from the area. A few Marines came over and shoot Aziz away. Aziz tried to show them his documents. I'm your ally, he told me. I worked for you guys.

I put my life on the line. I work for Chad. Do you know Chad Robes Show? I don't know. I'm one of the Marines said, get away. Someone from one of the groups fired a warning shot in Aziz's direction. Then H. Y yelled across the street. That's my guy.

Don't shoot him. Come over here, H. Y, shouted to Aziz. Aziz sprinting across the road and embraced H.Y. My family's over there, Aziz said, pointing to the open area in the distance. I was not able to bring them. It's very difficult to get here. I need your help. Please tell the Marines and the other guys

to let me bring them. My family. The warning shot had brought attention to that area. More zero zeros came rushing in. And zero zero is a security force from the Afghan government. And both them and the Marines are trying to keep things secured.

Which you think, well, won't they try to help them? No, they're actually trying to keep people away from the airport because there's so many people flooding the airport because of this was such a disaster. Some were firing into the air Spread out the crowd that had been stirred up by the first shot Some were striking people with their guns to try and control them Amid the growing commotion, H.Y got the attention of a zero-zero-zero commander

H. Y and his team had already gone against orders by coming outside the airport gate Look, this is my guy, H. Y told him. He needs to bring his family here Walk with him and escort him all the way through your guys He and his family are very important. Okay, their commander responded I'll walk with him to that area where our guys are, but I'm not going to walk him over to where the Taliban are. The commander and Aziz started walking toward his friend's car. Please don't leave Aziz, told the commander.

These other guys do not know me. They won't let me come back. The commander accompanied Aziz as far as he said he would, which was about 20 yards from where Aziz's family waited. Aziz feared that if he walked away to get his family, the commander would leave. Aziz called his friend and asked him to drive the car to a spot across from the street from Aziz and the commander. The friend followed Aziz's instructions, the friend followed Aziz's instructions, and Aziz was able to walk to the car while nervously keeping an eye on the commander to make sure he didn't leave.

Aziz realized that bringing his family together across the street would get the Taliban's attention. A family moving together obviously would be trying to get to the airport. Instead, one by one, attempting to blend in with the surroundings so he could not be recognized. Aziz slowly walked all seven members of his family from the car to the commander. The commander then returned with Aziz and his family to where Aziz had met up with H.Y. H.Y and the team came back outside the gate in an armored high luxe pickup truck, and they hurriedly loaded the family and the two bags they carried with them, containing all the possessions they were hoping to leave their home country with inside the pickup and sped inside the gate.

When the highlux had cleared the last of the various checkpoints maintained by Allied militaries, H.Y snapped the selfie with Aziz and sent the photo up to us. That's when I learned that my brother and his family had finally, finally made it safely into H. Kaya. It is a part that is not in the book that we could say now, about two hours after Aziz got in there, got his family situated. We got worded as a 16-year-old American University student

was trapped just outside in a house just outside. the Taliban was trying to find her. She was hiding. She tried to climb the wall and fell so she was injured, couldn't move. And we asked disease to go back out. I didn't ask him, but some of our guys asked disease to go back out and go get her. And he did. Dang, dude.

Yeah. I was actually upset when I found that he did. Yeah, I'd be pissed too. But that's just who he is. You know, he was like, and his wife's like, you're going back out. He's like, no, no, I'm going back out. And he went back out and got this girl. It's wild, too, like the modern.

technology that you get us you get a freaking selfie like as soon as it happens yeah I guess I was like I remember seeing that I was like oh my gosh like just like it was just such a relief because I you know as optimistic as I was it was like it was really hard to keep hope like it was it was it was crazy I mean the whole situation were just so crazy um fast forward a little bit coordinating rescues from home in real time made me want to be part of the rescues on the ground from 150 rescues the first day we jumped to 800 the second day and said daily goal of a thousand on the third day month Monday August 23rd Tim Nick

Hunter and I departed for the UAE so you guys had you done that all that from the ground in America yeah where I was putting I was just burning the keyboard man like getting everything together orchestrating everything and you know it's weird what I remember like this stuff happened so fast so I'm I like go on social media but I don't like go on it yeah I like post my stuff or whatever but I By the time I realized what you guys were doing, it was actually over. It was like literally over.

By the time I was like, hey, you know, I saw, you know, Save our allies, like somebody tagged me in something or whatever. And it was,

I'm pretty sure it was actually over by the time I caught wind of what was going on. That's how quickly happened. The 10 days first thing, it just like happened so quick. Yeah. Yeah, I did that, you know,

so I was the first like few days was, you're doing it from my house. And then I, then I flew over to Abadabadi. And, ran everything from Abu Dhabi and then and then you know that whole 10 day period at airport and then two two months of Maja Sharif and then the then Tajikistan river operation in Afghanistan Tajikistan so it's just like yeah that whole thing was about three months I don't know if you

tagged me in social media or Tim did or somebody did and I like reposted it or something but you guys were already like working and at least I can't remember it all but I just remember going Damn, this is, because I also remember sorting through there was a bunch of people that were Kind of like your buddy that said, hey, this special forces guy is trying to get some of his friends out like So many people. Yeah, so many people were asking for money. Yeah, and I I was like trying to figure it all out and then when I found it was you guys when I found it was you and Tim I was like, oh, okay, cool. That's at least a known good group of freaking humans But yeah, this shit happened quick

Fast forward a little bit more We traveled to Abu Dombie and by the way your job was done too, You know, like you got your friend out. Your job was done, but you were just getting warmed up. We traveled to Abu Dombie where we were able to grab about an hour of sleep. We woke up and met with Tim, Nick, and Joe to plan out our initial integration in operations there. A flight was bound to, about to return to H. Kai in about an hour or two. And since Joe and Andy needed me in the jock, it was just going to be Tim and Nick on that flight to join.

Sean Cispray and Dave saying goodbye to Tim and Nick as they departed, brought back an old feeling I had to experience in years. the last look you give someone before they go and you know there's a real chance you'll never see them again I couldn't help but consider they were getting on that plane because I'd asked them to and they trusted me yet I had no control of the environment they were stepping into Tim usually loud joking and always having fun but his tone was serious this was real and our lives would all be in danger along with those we were about to save Aziz and many others whom we didn't even know I looked at Tim and Nick one more time as we walked in opposite directions and prayed to myself, God be with them, blind the enemy, miraculously protect them, and give us success to save these people.

When Tim and Neck arrived, Sean and Seespray were on their way outside the wire. Within 15 minutes of stepping off the plane, Tim had changed clothes, and our three-man team was leaving the airport for the first time together. That night they set up eight rat lines, including ones that passed through the sewage ditches that received attention on the news reports. gate the UN accessed had been sealed shut when the UN left the country. Tim cut off a couple of locks and bent and cut some rebar so the gate could be pried open just enough to move people through.

The team also made cutouts and fences to pass people through. So there you go, man. The boys on the ground making happen 15 minutes after they get on the ground. They're rolling out. Everything was so fast the whole time. I remember my first deployment to Iraq, there was like a QRF was needed. It was far away. And one of my buddies, who was my senior enlisted advisor, who's for our task unit,

who's just like one of my freaking awesome bros. And we were launching this QRF. There was a bad situation. And what I told my guys was like, hey, load out, full load out, everything, just ammo. There was like a CPA was getting overrun down south. So when a position is being overrun and you're going as a QR, like you know it's on but I remember my buddy my buddy had that like look like I'm like like I brought him out of here and he like hugged me and I was like oh shit it was like this is worse than

I thought that's that look I was like you you probably know what I'm talking about like when you just got to look you like man you might this might be the last goodbye yeah fast forward a little again you go through such good detail in the book most of our operations occurred under cover darkness although we were able to move larger groups during the day by bringing them to the airport on buses as with everyone we brought into the airport we made triple certain anyone we allowed onto a bus was properly vetted the US government has been accused of evacuating lucky souls who were in H-Kaya regardless of status while that may ring true our efforts were handled with military precision our government

was adamant that we weren't sticking just anyone on a plane and flying him out of the country most NGOs working alongside us did due diligence in vetting people as well we knew exactly who we were getting out because of the triage process that oversaw in the states. So you guys ran this you know, like a military operation. Yeah. I mean, those, I mean, as you could suspect on the ground, you know,

of course, the near four recognition symbols and then the bona fides process to make sure they are who they are before we move them. And then, of course, they're going to bring, they're going to have 10, if you have 10 people, you have another 10 people that shouldn't be there. And so you've got to sort through that. Fast forward a little bit more.

Late afternoon on Thursday, August 26 at 1750 local time of the bid suicide bombing outside Abbey Gate Killed 13 U.S. service members and approximately 170 Afghans hoping to be allowed inside the airport 18 other U.S. military members along with well over another 200 Afghan civilians were severely wounded When I received word in Abu Dhabi the attack my first thought was our are guys okay. We immediately got in touch with Tim. At the time of the explosion, our ground team had just completed loading evacuees

onto a C-17 about a mile away. They had been at Abbey Gate minutes earlier. The cargo ramp was still down on the plane when they heard the blast and a dust plume rose from that area. They could not tell what had happened, but they knew it was bad. They closed the ramp right away and sent off the flight.

As the reports came in detailing the number of U.S. service members killed, I got angry. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, anybody that made it in and out of the airport was because the Taliban allowed them to, and for the White House to immediately say, oh, is ISIS, not the Taliban, it's like, how could you defend the enemy that way to the American public? You know, we allowed that to happen.

And we know, the biggest, and I talk about it in the book, the biggest thing is that Neo operation. You take the White House took the non-combatant evacuation operation away from the DOD and gave it to the State Department who has no business in doing that. They don't know how to do it. It's not their job to do it. That's what's the difference between military force and diplomacy. And they treated that airport like an embassy. And it allowed a military to do their job. They just made them embassy guards. Yeah. And that's that allowed this to happen. A Lance Corporal in the Marine Corps would have been able to plan this better than the way it went down and it's just it's horrible to see and no and then I mean no offense to Lance

corporals in the Marine Corps right this time because you guys are squared away and you had done a better job 100% fast forward a little bit more the bombings aftermath created more challenges for us with a week remaining until the United States self-imposed deadline two more gates were welded shut further restricting entry points we also receive word from inside the airport that military leadership that started pulling back troops from security responsibilities, which was one way we were able to bring people inside. The new challenges met a mix of overt and covert operations was no longer an option for us at H. Kaya. The additional security threat forced us to work covertly and avoid all

major gates. For whatever motivation the statement department had, I think it figured out that the only way to shut down NGO evacuations was to allow the lily pad countries to max out on refugees they could handle the vetting processes to move refugees out of those countries came to a virtual halt. Our last flight of evacuees left three days before the deadline. For that time, the rescues were over. Tim, Sean Sea Spray and Dave returned to Abu Dhabi, and we reunited to share a meal, hold a debrief, and address what was next for us.

I had badly wanted to fly back into Afghanistan one more time, even if just to help load evacuees onto one more plane I'd wanted to put my feet on Afghanistan dirt one more time But over 10 days when the dust settled we had rescued more than 12,000 people out of Afghanistan With the best I can estimate over 50 recovery operations only the Department of Defense evacuated more people and we saved disease so yeah um So when that piece happened, we knew like the military had to leave, but we kind of remember I was talking. We're like, well, we don't have to.

You know, we knew everybody I moved to Mazda Sharif. Also the White House was saying there's 100 Americans left, which, you know, the state Secretary of Blanken had said there was 16,000 and they said they moved that 6,000, but now there's 100. I'm not that great at math, but I'm better than that, right? And, you know, we knew for a fact that there were thousands of Americans still there. And the truth is, you know, it doesn't matter if there's a hundred or a thousand. Like, you don't leave one American behind.

That was even a promise that President Biden had said himself, you know, and we're, you know, from where we came from, you know, you've scorched to earth to go get an American. Like, that's just what we do. Even in some idiot like Bo Burtall, a traitor, like they knew they were going to lose people to go get him, but he was an American. They were going to go get him. And so we chose to stay and because of that. And, you know, we worked a coalition in Mazda Sharif and got another.

We got another 5,000 people out through that. And then when that was over, after two months of that, basically all the ability to build to fly people out, like you said, the State Department would pretty much close those doors. So we knew that it still had to be something we could do. Everyone had moved to the Pansier Valley. And Ahmad Massoud, if anybody has followed the history of Afghanistan, 9-11. Ahmad Masoud was the leader of the Northern Alliance, and bin Laden brilliantly assassinated him the day before 9-11. because he knew he would be our ally. So they cut off our allies before he did not execute at 9-11,

which was pretty smart strategy. And then that was kind of his race, that movie 12 strong, that was a race to get control of the ally force, like build ally forces against the Taliban, taking them because of the assassination of Ma'Asood. Well, his son, his son started the resistance in the Pansier Valley. So all the commandos that we trained moved women and children to Pansier Valley, and we had heard they were planning to cross them into Tajikistan for refuge.

And so when I heard this, I'm like, this is what we could do because I knew I've been in the area plenty times before. The mountains there are like 25,000 foot peaks. Even if you make it to the border, there's like a lot of places like a thousand foot cliff off the border because the border of Tajikistan and Afghanistan is the Pangea River. So there's like a lot of cliffs there. And in addition to that, the Pansier River is Category 5 Rapids. It's ice melt water.

If it stops anywhere, it's freezing, even in the summertime. So it's like this really treacherous terrain. In addition to that, the Taliban was protecting that border. The Tajik border guard was protecting there. The Russian military moved in and had mechanized convoys up to like 45 BMPs on the border to keep people from going into Tajikistan. And then the Chinese military had deployed their like Chinese infantry. They had special operations units to make sure that no one crossed.

So they were going to try to move women at children. through all that with no kind of visual and other of how to do it and so that's kind of bread and butter for you know for recon guys and like we need to go across and do route recons and do some fording reps and provide that information we had some contacts in our government agencies government intelligence agencies that couldn't collect that information but they wanted it and so so we decided to launch a two-man operation and uh and that's what another miracle happened i called uh there was a marine named staff star and dennis price and he He just came from J-Sockeye Gond Team the later year, scout sniper, younger than me, so he can carry my stuff. Like, you know, he's just like a really good dude and he really wanted to participate. And so, but he, the problem was he was using the reserves and they weren't allowed to participate in anything like this.

So I called his commander, Lieutenant Colonel Tommy Waller, who left knew, and I said, hey, you got this Marine there, Staff Sherman Price. What are the chances you could cut him loose to allow me to come with this humanitarian mission? That's what I called it. And he said, I put it in writing. I don't know. And so we put it in writing in another miracle. He got approved. And he got cut loose to come with me. And so he and I went and did this operation, spent 10 days. We traveled, you know, we landed, did 12 hours drive through mountains, spent 10 days on that border. No, it's, again, all this is in the book. You know, you, you have updates in there from Afghanistan that you talk about, which are very powerful to read. Like, the one that I remember was, you know, you. You have updates in there from Afghanistan that you talk about, which are very powerful to read. Like, the one that I remember was, you.

you know, like 11 year old girl that's being forced to marry a 55 year old man. This is what's now they're suffering under there. And then like you, you know, you go into the details around this, this, you know, this Tajikistan mission where you got like Nikita, this tour guide. Like it's wild border security encounters. You got all that stuff, the assessments that you guys do. So there's a whole other story. Like, you know, I stopped when when you save disease, but that's not.

the end of the book you got discussions about the meaning of the war in Afghanistan you got a ziz back in America with his family so there's so much more that I covered now or that we covered today but you know you close the book by explaining that there's still 40 million people in Afghanistan living under this oppressive tyrannical regime the Taliban and then what you say is that despite the people that we were able to get out because there's millions of these people still there. What you say in the book, you say, we cannot claim victory. There is no victory in all of this. There's only doing the

best we can as the mission continues. And that's for sure. I mean, the reason I want to bring that up is not only is it true in this situation, but it's true in so many situations that we all face in life yeah which is you face dire situations you face incredible odds and sometimes the best you can do is the best you can do you're never going to be able to raise your hand and victory and say i'm the champ but the best you can do is the best you can do it applies to war applies to health it implies to business and applies to life yeah so i i thought that was a a really pertinent part of the book to to bring up because you know It's not just about this.

It's about everything. Yeah, I mean, like, a lot of people have given us a lot of credit. You know, like 17,000 people out. That sounds like a lot, but that's a speck of sand on the beach compared to the 40 million there. The 20 million women and little girls are sexually enslaved the rest of their life. They don't even have women's rights. They don't have human rights now because of this. And so, like 17,000 sounds like a lot, but to me it's like, man, what if we could have done more?

You know, and I vividly remember, like, pulling, as we're in that operation center, like, we're planning operations, pulling white papers off of the board and, like, this white paper, we're pulling off and throwing away because that mission didn't happen because we couldn't get another, we couldn't get our guys another 500 yards closer to these people. And now there's 300 kids that were just tossing that and moving it on. Like, there was so much more we could have done. And, I mean, in the river operations, you know, Dennis and I, swimming there across that river every night into Afghanistan. stand and and then there was one night where we're trying to rescue this family this pregnant woman and a commando and their kids and it's like that didn't happen there was so many like parts of that book the book that wrote about in the book and plenty of that aren't in the book that were just like not victories but it was just the best we could we were just trying to do

best we could and we keep back we keep getting asked a lot like we've done a lot of media stuff and me and C-spray were on an interview recently and this lady was asking us like why we know why we do it I mean obviously why we get diseases you know that's that's that's I think most people could conclude why would it go get a seize, but why do we stay? Why are we in Ukraine right now helping in Ukraine? You know, we don't know these people. And, you know, I think the simple answer is because it's the right thing to do, and there's never a wrong time to do the right thing.

If you can help someone, if you have the ability to help someone, and you should. But Seaspray was asked another question, and it kind of took me back when he was asked, luckily it asked him because he answered it perfectly. That lady said, was it worth it? And he said, it doesn't have to be. It doesn't always have to be worth it to do the right thing. And I think oftentimes our life, we look at everything like with the ROI. Like I'll invest my time, my energy, my money, my resources.

What am I getting out of it? What's the risk? You know, what's the risk analysis? You know, it doesn't always have to be worth it to do the right thing. We think a risk. Me and Tim specifically were getting insulted a lot like on social media. I tried to have to read a lot of stuff, but people were like, you got like basically like champ, like hoping for us to die so we learn a lesson because we shouldn't have been out there. Getting away of the military.

First of all, like for a family to think we've gotten to the way of the military. way of the military like who is stupid enough to believe that we had a bunch of veterans had the ability to land on a doD control and do that on our own like cowboy thing is that's impossible right we clearly had coronation and secondly like you don't think we know the risk we all been around one time we knew exactly the risk uh we were taking i mean i mean i remember like me and dennis flying over to jika's dan like we're about to swim across this river in afghanistan like my wife that we're on the way to airport she's like why are you doing this like and i mean she was you know She was worried, obviously scared, and she's like, why are you doing this?

And I'm like, what if it was us? What if this was our daughter that was going to be sexually enslaved the rest of her life? What was it? Our sons that would be put in this position. We'd be praying someone would come help us. And, you know, I know I would. And so, you know, sometimes I think in life, outside of combat, outside of stuff like this, Afghan, just everyday life, this, you know, we have the opportunity to do the right thing we should. And, you know, I think really this was a lesson that I learned in that.

And it doesn't always have to be worth it. The ROI didn't have to always be there. We measure that a lot, you know, what will we do? But sometimes, you know, like C-SPARE said, it doesn't have to be worth it to do the right thing. Yeah, well, I would say that the ROI on doing the right thing is the most valuable thing that there is. It's just that right. Compared to have a look at yourself in the mirror when you know you didn't do the right thing, that's to me that the ROI on doing the right thing is the most valuable possible ROI there is. That's true.

You might not be able to measure it out in, you know, something. kind of monetary value or whatever. Right. But, I mean, if everyone was just driven by what their ROI was in terms of material things, I mean, life would be totally different and it wouldn't be good. Yeah. So let's talk about, like, okay, what do you got going on right now? So save our allies, that's up and running.

How's that going? Is that who you're in Ukraine with right now? No. So, you know, Mighty Oaks Foundation, my foundation. We stood up Save Our Allies as the effort for Afghanistan. I was, when I was over, I stepped off of the board with Save Our Allies because I'm too focused on Mighty Oaks. I have to be. So it's still up and running, Sarah, Nick, Tim, still doing Save Our Allies.

And that's Save Our Allies.org. That's where they're at. Okay. And so for me, Mighty Oaks is, we have an international division. We're in Ukraine doing what we call it a medical mission. So we go out and bring the troops like IFACs and go, we'll teach them like T-T-T-TCCC, combat casualty care, and use that as a rapport builder with them to be there for them in a mental, spiritual program side that Mighty Oaks does.

And so we take our Mighty Oaks instructors, U.S. combat veterans who have been trained to do Mighty Oaks and push them forward in small teams to do that. We've also been involved in a lot of rescue operations. Some would save our allies and then others without. We've just rescued Benjamin Hall. If you remember the Fox News report, it was catastrophic. It was myself, Sea Spray, and a couple other guys went and took it. Benjamin Hall out.

Then the following days after that, we went back. And I actually drove the Hearst out to get Pierre, the 25-year cameraman out of Kiev, when it was under attack. And went out to the front lines, Carqueve, all that areas, is Zoom. I've been like two hours past the Russian line doing some of the programs we've been doing so we've been out there doing some pretty incredible work in Ukraine When's the last time you were out there?

Two months, two and a half months ago. How was the morale for the Ukrainian troops? Man, you know, it's pretty crazy because they're like so optimistically motivated and they feel like they're in such a righteous position to defend their homes. You've got to take the politics out of it because everything we see here in America is like Swinsky

and billions of dollars. all that's corruption and stuff like that. I don't care about any of that stuff. I care about helping people. And most of these troops in Ukraine, they're not tied to the Ukrainian government. They're there like to protect their homes and their families and their wives and kids. So when you look at it from that perspective,

these people are like they're righteously feel like they're defending their way of life. What's the, were you able to get a feel for the morale of the Russian troops? The only Russian troops I've seen firsthand. And I was dead or dying. We were in the Zoom. we were in a Zoom and they pushed

Zoom had been taken for six months so the Ukrainian unit that we were with pushed forward myself and C-spray just two of us and we were with them when they pushed forward and the Russian line collapsed behind us so that's the first time I've ever seen air over us like they were like two like were those migs and I was like

I never seen that before in C-spray's like yeah me neither and they came back and did a gun run in front of us and then they were IDF hitting I think with 100 yards of us who were stuck there but as they pushed forward I probably counted like 60 Russian troops that were dead or dying. So how did you get out of the envelopment?

Well, once it settled, we were able to move out. We were, you know, a single vehicle. We were just us in a single vehicle, so we just had to wait for it to calm down. We stay with the main unit as they moved forward. We were with us was the chief of all the Ukrainian police. So he had his detail with him. That's who we were with. But I had to wait until, I mean, because like said, the line closed behind us.

There was probably the most kinetic fighting I've ever seen. You know, I'm, you know, especially considered the type of work I did in Afghanistan. I never seen that level of kinetic fighting firsthand before. But, you know, I mean, like we were walking by, like, and they were like a Russian kid, like probably 17 years old, dying. And they still had his AK-47 on him. And I took it from him and cleared it because their Ukrainian troops already passing. I didn't pick it up. I'm trying not to be a combatant there,

but like that close to kinetic combat, I'd never seen anything like, like, like I could show you some videos on my phone, like it was crazy. I mean, and this is uniform or uniform. You know, we haven't seen much of that before. And so obviously we're not there trying to get involved in those kind of environments,

but the nature of the work that we're doing puts us in those places sometimes. We just, I don't want to say the name, but we just moved out. We had a seal that was fighting there. And he was wounded, We were moving him. We went into, we were called to go in and get him.

We went in and went in to get him. And, uh, and this is just, just, this is not an active duty seal. No. Yeah. Just to make that clear. Yeah. But yeah, sorry. Yeah.

He was, uh, joined the, uh, Ukrainian Legion and, uh, to fight there. And he, uh, when he was wounded, we were in, and we stopped at the hospital. And, uh, he was, he was being treated at the hospital and the state department gave some problems at moving him. And so he had, he would have, we, we tried to get him to pull in for help, but he ended up passing. And, uh, we got his body out. So we're doing things like that. as well. And so we were able to get his body home to where his family was and so he could have a

proper burial and be back with his mom. Yeah, the outlook for the war in the Ukraine in Ukraine, you know, it's a test of wills. And as you mentioned, it's very difficult to break the will of people who are defending their home and their families. That's right. And their soil. So, You don't know who's going to, and I'm surprised, well, I guess I'm not surprised. We don't learn this lesson. We, meaning human beings, don't learn this lesson. Right. Because we think we can go to some other country.

And by we, again, it could be anybody. Could be anybody. Could be America like we did in Vietnam, like we did in Afghanistan, like the Russians did in Afghanistan. Like big, giant countries have done all over the world. go in and think we can beat someone because they're small and because we're bigger and we have better technology and the fact of the matter is you're going to come up against people that are willing to die for their cause

and this is what happened in Vietnam. We looked at them and said, oh, we can kill. After the battle of the I-draing Valley, we said, oh, we killed 150 of them for every one of us. We can win. and what we didn't realize is they didn't care if they lost a million, which they did, two million. We lost 58,000 and we lost because our will was not in that fight. Yeah, and I think that's what you were getting to with the Russian was their motivation.

I mean, most of them don't even realize their conscripts. They don't realize why they're there. Some of them think they're going to eradicate neo-Nazism from Ukraine. Some of them think they're going there for a training exercise. And so they don't even, I went into, I was in a, went into a jail with about 10 of them, and they were just, they had just been recently cast. And they were just like, what do you want to know? Like we didn't want to be here.

And, uh, but I was, I was in this, I was in a safe house with, uh, with this Ukrainian pastor. We were, uh, when we first went there, one of the things we did, we set up a community, uh, kind of clandestine communication infrastructure for some of our assets. And, and, and we were sitting there just talking and, uh, and I was like, asked him the same question. What do you think is going to happen? And he said, uh, we're going to win. And he was just said it was such confidence. I'm like, and he's like, they would, they will have to kill every single Ukrainian to take this country. It ends up, I mean, right now it's, like you said, it's uniform on uniform.

But if Ukraine uniform forces, let's say they lose, which is by no means going to happen. But even if they did, they're going to have to fight against an insurgency that's going to be there, that's going to, which is going to be very difficult to defeat. Yeah. We drive, we usually move at night. And we have the, usually both the roads are closed, but we have the ability, we have permission to drive a night, but sometimes you run into, like, we have permission to drive a night, but if you're hitting official military checkpoints, but like I'm driving through, we do like 18-hour

drives like across Ukraine and we're driving and then there's like another checkpoint to some militia. And, you know, they're not connected to the military. They're protecting their homes and towns, like, like you're saying. And I mean, that's a scary, that's one of the most dangerous moments for us because they think we're, they're told like Russians will come through here, they have blue American passports and they'll say they're NGOs and they're going to kill you. So now we're, in the middle of the back country by some country boy with a, on a 55-gallon drum next to a fire, and he's got his hunting rifle and a machete,

and they got us, you know, there's the whole crew around us, and they pulling everything out of our car and they think we're going to kill them. So they're scared, which makes it very dangerous environment, but, I mean, these people are just, they're just wanting to protect their homes. Does that get us up to date, kind of?

Yeah, I mean, you know, obviously Mighty Oaks, always in and though especially with your platform if there's any veterans out there first responders active duty service members spouses that need help like no you're you're not alone you don't have to do it alone you are meant to do it alone like as so many amazing organizations out there my deux is one of them everything we do is free we'll fly you out we have an amazing program where are they located because I used to be in California is just don't want in California Central California we have 25,000 acre ranch up in Paso rebels area we have two in Texas

Virginia, Ohio. And so, but how many programs are you running a year there? We'll do 35 camps this year. How many people in a camp? All the locations are different, but an average of 40 people, but 20 first time students will go through

because we have guys coming back through that leadership development because we're training guys to be part of it. So it'll be 40 beds, but about 21st time people coming through. And if the faith-based thing is like a turnoff of people, like I could tell you to half the people that come to our program is not not that and share our Christian faith but they come and you know take

what you could take from it it's a it's a you know we're not it's not an evangelical like pushing Jesus down your throat program it's like we used it we use our faith-based side is like biblical living so we kind of like contrast making good decisions based off these biblical principles but you know don't let that turn you off and uh and keep you from getting help we have we have amazing group of people it's all peer-based uh there's no counselors there not that anything against clinical counselors but that's just not what we do It's peer-to-peer mentoring and people that have been through the same things that you may be struggling with and could help you move forward. This is Mightyoaks Programs.org is the website.

What's the course look like? How long are I going there for? If I reach out, first of all, how to reach out? Go to the website. Go to the website. Applications on there. Super simple application. We made it make it that way because we'll get more information later.

But we want to be easy application process. Someone from our team will contact you back within like within a few days, three or four days. And then we have the 35 camps this year. So we'll schedule you a location and date that works for you. And by the way, we don't care about your discharge. If people, you know, sometimes people, I know, I know guys are, you know, Navy Crossers recipients that got a bad conduct discharge to DUI, right? That doesn't mean we don't help them.

So like it doesn't matter. We don't care about any of that stuff. And so you go, you'll come. It's five days long. You'll spend five days on our ranch, well, five nights. So six, five nights, six days. And you usually get there Sunday night and leave, leave Saturday morning. And you're going to be putting a six-man team.

There'll be a veteran. You don't have to be a combat veteran to go, but all of our team leaders are combat veterans. And so a combat veteran who's been through our program trained by us will lead that team. And you'll go through 14, 14, like, core principal courses. And at the end of each class, like their classes are in different kind of life, like life principles that you would, and we go, you break out in that six-man team. And you just kind of work through that together, what's it look like in your life, what's some, how to challenge you in your life, with some better decisions. you can make. We help people make a plan to be able to navigate the hardships and difficulties of life and make better decisions. And then part of that plan is using our aftercare system to have

someone as they connected to and have support all the way through. So when I leave, I'm still connected. That's right. If I have, if I need help, I got a buddy that we linked up with maybe somebody that's further along in the program, that type of thing. That's right. Yeah, that's what, as our after care program, I think it's one of the most important things that we do. And it's one to the areas I think a lot of organizations and programs fail at there. You have this, you bring people with this program, you have this kind of mountain top high, and you go back and life hits you right back in the face, you know, and you don't have the resources. So one of the things I thought early on, you know, that made me successfully, and the successes I've had

personally was having that support network moving forward. So I knew that if we have a program like this, we have to have that integrated. We should not, we should not outgrow our ability to have that system of aftercare. And so if we can't have that system of aftercare, we need to, And we need to grow up. Our organization have always made sure it grew at the pace that we're able to maintain that system of after care. Now, people have to choose to be part of it. You know, obviously like anything else, people could sign up for jitsu and choose not to come. But what just happens, happens a lot in probably big part of your revenue stream here to school.

So, I mean, you know, people sign up for things and don't stick to it. But even so, you know, a joke about that. But the truth is, like, sometimes people leave the program and it all stay connected. and they think they fell off and then they'll struggle again, they'll come back. They know what to come back to. And having that lifeline, knowing where it's at is important as well. So you do both that program and the stuff that you're doing overseas, for instance, in the Ukraine right now, is that, are those all under the same nonprofit?

Yeah. So Mighty Oaks Foundation has four areas. We do our resiliency program. That's usually me or Jeremy Stolenerker going to bases around the world and speaking on resiliency to the troops. So like I go to Marine Corps boot camp, I do pre-deployment briefs. I've done NSW resiliency programs. I've done a lot with Army SF.

So we do those. I've spoken about half million troops in the last 12 years doing that, really in about the past six years. And then in that, we've written a lot of resources. I could send you some of them. We have these little books that are about 40, 45 minute reads.

We have one on PTSD. We have one on spiritual resiliency. You know, those four pillars of resiliency, mind body, social spirit, the spiritual pillar. And then we have one on suicide. So we have these resources. We've given away, about 350,000 copies of our books doing that.

And then our recovery programs, the legacy program, that's the camps we're talking about. And then the third thing we do is a public policy. I've spent a lot of time in D.C., like testifying before Congress and Senate, working with the VA to get faith-based programs, make sure that veterans, whether people agree that with faith-based programs or not, I think we could all agree that veterans should have the freedom to choose that if they want it. So we're really fighting for that in D.C.

And then the fourth thing we do is our international. And so we take those same programs that we do successfully in a state, and bring them to our ally partners around the world. So Ukraine's a little bit different because it's an active war right now, but we were in Ukraine before this. We had been three trips there, helping them recover from 2014.

We Peru, different other ally countries around the world, we take those programs. And we kind of like a train to trainer model. Like, hey, we're gonna take, this is what we do in the states for Mighty Oaks, for our US service members. Let us do one, we'll go there and do a resiliency program, and then they can identify some staff members

and we'll train them how to do it. do what we do and hand it off so that's what that's our international effort what it's typically what typically is like said ukraine's a little bit different right now yeah no it's so freaking awesome work and like i said i've i've seen what you've done uh with guys so i really appreciate what you're doing there save our allies dot org you also got shad chad robisho dot com that's where if people want to if you want if you're looking for chad you want to come speak uh you know that's where you reach out. Obviously, you got your books on there as well.

What else? What else is on that? I mean, say the other thing is, my Oaks Programs that are, you know, those three locations and, and yeah, my books, speaking, I do a lot of speaking, and it's primary one of the ways

that we raise money to do, you know, get out, when I go out speak, I'm do two things, and one raising money to build to pay for these programs and make them free for people, and then, because we do about half, you know, about 500, I mean,

$5 million a year in programming. And then the other side is, I go speak, and it helps me broadcast, just like right now, I'm getting to broadcast what we do, so people that need help, could find help. You know, I go, I speak at a lot of churches on the weekends, and do a lot of corporate events.

And those corporate events, they have a lot of veteran employees there, and we always get applications. After I speak, when I go to church on a Sunday and speak, we'll get swarmed with applications because of people in their community are struggling. And so it's bringing them a resource. So that's through Chadrovershow.com.

You're on social media. Yeah, Instagram is most active. Most active on Instagram. Your Instagram is Chad Robo R-O-B-O-O-U-Score official. You are also on Twitter, just Chad Robo, and you're on Facebook, Chad Robo Show, C-H-A-U-X, for those of you that aren't from Louisiana. And you've got a YouTube channel, too.

Chad Robo 6351. What's 6351? I don't know. That was me? That one's... Yeah, I looked at it. There's videos of you all there. Oh, man, I got to check that out.

All right. Well, we might want to blow that one up. Awesome. Six three, five, one. I don't know. I figured it was some MOS or something. No. I don't know.

Just random numbers. All right. Well, we'll figure it out. You're not born in 1963. I don't know. 6351. Does that get us up to speak?

Yeah. We pretty much there. Yeah, man. I appreciate that. Probably a good place to wrap up. Echo Charles. Questions from Echo. Really?

No, Jijit. No fighting questions. I mean, we're still doing jitzy. Right? Yeah. Of course.

Well, there you go. Yeah, all good. A really impactful story, though. Yeah. I thought, yeah, anytime when, like, you kind of fall out with, you know, members of your family and then you could reflect back of, you know, with the stuff that you did or didn't do and you can come back together. I think there's always, like, some kind of lesson in there.

And even on, like, sometimes you go deep, like, you know, like yours was, like, detrimental. Yours was, like, near the end kind of a thing. Like, it doesn't even have to get there to learn these lessons, you know? Like, you can just be the smallest little thing and be, like, like hey wait a second I learned from you know that story or whatever kind of implement that way of looking at it and boom bring it back and get everything together I think there's always something to learn with that you know what I was

thinking of when you when you were talking about your wife like after you guys split up and you were like not being a good husband at all and then you guys are trying to get back together and then sometimes she's like hey you know what if you come home and she's like I don't want you you know you discuss me all that stuff and you know you're going to your friend that's kind of mentoring you and And what I was thinking, I was like, if I was mentoring, I'd be like, hey, bro, this is a test. Yeah. Like, this is a test that you have to go, you know, we talk about gamifying things and how you turn something to a game.

If your game is like, okay, I'm getting, oh, this is a test I'm getting hit with right now. Yeah. Because my wife, who I was an idiot to, is now testing me out and testing out my faith and testing out my temper and testing out my ego. And am I going to pass this test or not? That's the question. I remember literally pulling the driveway and be like, like I always talk about making a pre-decision. Like you decide in advance, you know, decide the moment of chaos.

Right. And so I thought about that and I'd like, pulling the driveway and I'd be like, okay, I don't know what I'm walking into. A woman that wants me in the house and loves me or a woman that's going to like be crazy and try to stab me with a kitchen knife. I don't know what I'm walking into, but whoever's going to be in that house,

I'm going to have that compassion and grace and making that pre-decision in advance. Yeah, I actually talk about that when I'm working with leaders. You know, I say, hey, before, you know, look, it's hard to detach. It's hard to not let your ego get involved. So before you go into a meeting with your boss that you know has a bad temper or a meeting with your employee that you know has a big ego, before you go in there, decide how you're going to act before you get in there.

Say, okay, these are the things I'm going to work on. I'm not going to let my ego. I'm not going to get emotional. I'm not going to speak when I shouldn't be speaking. I'm going to listen. Like, whatever those things are that you're going to do, make that decision before. you get into this scenario, you're going to have a much better chance of success. So it's a good plan.

You park your car outside the house. It's immediate action drill, right? Yeah. You know what you're going to do. You don't decide in that moment of chaos. You don't decide, like, hey, you call combat timeout, rally up, figure out what to do. You know exactly what you could do because you thought about an advance. You practice it.

You rehearsed it a thousand times. When my parachute fails, I'm not having to think about what I'm going to do. I know what I'm going to do. I don't have to think about it. Awesome. Chad, you got any closing thoughts, man? No, man, I'm just super grateful for you had me on. It's been, you know, something I've looked forward to for a very long time.

And thankfully, you have me on. You got an awesome show. You're doing, you crushing it, man. You're doing inspiring people, doing great things. It's an honor to be on with you. Well, thanks. And I'm sorry, it took so long to get you down here. And I'm sorry, you got a bad teeth or whatever you said.

You can't train right now. I got good to you now. I just want to keep them. I want to keep them good. Really appreciate you coming down. Thanks for sharing your lessons learned. Thanks for your service, you know, obviously in the Marine Corps, what you did in the Marine Corps, what you did as a contractor,

but really especially for everything that you did for our allies in Afghanistan and for what you continue to do today for our allies overseas and especially what you're doing for our veterans here at home. Thanks for everything, brother. I appreciate it, man. Appreciate it. Right on. And with that, Chad, Robes Show has left the building.

A lot going on. on there echo Charles yeah a lot of ups and downs yep a lot of losing oneself and finding oneself yeah fully so a lot of it coming back to jih Tzu you know it's interesting you know no one knows what happens when we when when when someone leaves the building yeah but we actually just went out and reviewed some jihitsu moves a little less still in the game you know yeah chat's still in the game still training so getting after it teaches sometimes when he can and what a good grounding right you know it's a good to come back to the jih Tjitsu yeah fully it's weird like one of the many things that dawned on me yet again with like the story like okay yeah the the the shooting incident right but the afghanistan stuff

like he's going through it right saying there's how everything like got laid out i live in a bubble I understand. And this stuff is like, this is really, really, really happening. It's not like this. It's not just a novel. It's not a novel. It's not a movie or whatever. This is like really happening.

Yeah, that always kind of blows my mind a little bit. Yeah. And I try to point that out too. Like you're reading the book and you're hearing about people getting shot and people getting drunk through the streets. And you're kind of like, oh, that's, you know, that's like, you know, you might say, oh, well, that's like this movie that I saw. So you're taking a book and relating it to a movie.

the movie's not real so basically you're just distancing yourself from what's really happening right and it is when you think about the fact that this stuff is happening that you know guys are going into harm's way and what does that do what it's not you don't know what's going to happen man you do not know what's going to happen no so uh yeah man also to the um it's it's it's an interesting right because i don't know You know, I watch TV sometimes. And, you know, you see stuff on the news and, like, all the stuff. And you have this kind of picture laid out. But he kind of, it dawned on me that, like, sometimes when, like, things aren't being done the correct way,

even though that's normally how they go. Like, you know, whether there's a lot of red tape or it's just some of a big bureaucracy or whatever. But sometimes you can just freaking grab a friend, two friends, ten friends, ask some people for some support on the tail end on the front end and freaking just do it. and freaking just do it yourself. I was going to go into this whole comparison. This is like free market opportunities, right? It was like the big bureaucratic thing,

which is the military and the State Department was all, you know, they've got planners and they're doing all the stuff. Free market was like, okay, we need money, we need people, put them together, who wants to rock and roll, let's go do it. And they went and did it. So yes, sometimes you just got to get after it. And that's what's going to work.

So while you're getting after it, you need some fuel. Get yourself some jocco fuel. Go to joccofuel.com. Look, we got all kinds of good stuff drinking some right now drinking some go energy drink. Hard to call it an energy drink when it's not really comparable to normal energy drinks that are poison and will give you diseases. Over time, they're absolutely horrible for you. Factually. We got something that's good for you.

So go there, joccofuel.com. You can get you know what joint warfare you can get curle oil super cool you can get milk ready to drink milk Okay, so here's the thing about milk. Here's a new development in my workflow My munk workflow. So you know how like sometimes? Was it Dakota Meyer said he froze? Froze it? Yeah, yeah, he makes the mulk mud good good move So here's the thing incidentally this is what I found so the RTD milk you don't freeze it but you get it really really really cold like right below free freezing, then drinking. For real.

And you'd think like, okay, it's just cold or whatever, but it adds another, like, layer of something, whether it be flavor, texture, whatever, like how cold it is. It's like, you know, you guys are saying like, oh, yeah, the vanilla one tastes like melted ice cream? It is. It's like actual ice cream. Yeah. So it's like, you know, you have this impression, you know, when you drink stuff like water,

you drink under certain circumstances, it's going to be more appealing than like juice or soda or milk or milkshake or ice cream. You know, all this stuff. When you drink the, what do you call? Just below frozen one, it's like it takes you to a different context. Bro, I'm telling you. Try. Try.

I'm going to try it. I'm going to try it. Jocofuel.com. Go check that out. You can also get it while while. You can get it vitamin shop. Military commerce. I have a bunch of friends sending me stuff from military commerce.

There's pictures of it. Like, yo, you got it in here. So Hannaford, dash stores. HB's HB's. Sorry, HEB. Well, I guess it's HEB is plural. down in Tejas, Meyer out in the Midwest, Weiss, just rolled into Weiss. So much places, if your store doesn't have it, ask for it.

Jock Fuel. There you go. Also, origin USA. If you need a pair of jeans, which you do, if you need a pair of boots, if you need a pair of shorts, if you need a belt, if you need a wallet, if you need a beanie, if you need a sweatshirt, you need a hoodie. Hey, whatever you need, if you need to hunt gear. Whatever you need, we got it for you. We got it for you and it's made in America.

We got factories where we're taking American raw material and turning it into American clothing. Go to origin USA.com and get yourself something that is made in America that you can wear and not feel overriding guilt because you haven't enslaved. poor third world nationals that are living in a sweatshop being worked to death. Don't do that. Let your conscience be clear. OriginUSA.com.

Let your conscience be clear. It's true. Also, we're representing, right? Discipline equals freedom. Good. If you want to represent, go to jocco store.com that's where you can get your shirts

and hats and hoodies, that kind of cool stuff. Some new stuff, I think, coming down the pipe. So be on the lookout. Oh, It's getting creative. A little song.

They come down there's a little bit. It's a little cup for that one. Also, the short locker, which is one shirt, new shirt every month, different design, every month. Yeah. Creative, I guess. If you want to call it, they can call it. Anyway, a lot of people, some good feedback on that one, shirt locker.

That's what it's called. It's on jocco store.com. It's a good one. Don't forget about subscribing to the podcast, jocco underground.com, YouTube, subscribe to those, psychological warfare. Flipside canvas, speaking to Dakota Meyer, flipside canvas, making cool stuff to hang on your wall, all the books, Look, Chad wrote Saving Aziz, pick up that book. He also wrote a book called Unfair Advantage and a book called Fight for Us.

Really good insights in these books. Check them out. Also, you got your Jocko books, Jocko publishing books. Only Cry for the Living. We also have the Warrior Kid books. Warrior Kid five letters from Uncle Jake. It's out. I should tell more people that I did like an Instagram post the other day.

Yeah. Telling 13, 15, 17 year old young men what to do with their lives. And, you know, some of the comments, I was reading the comments. Like, oh, you know, you're just saying this right now. I was like, bro, I wrote my first kid's book like seven years ago, which had the same concepts in it. There's no bandwagging I'm jumping into. No.

We're here to turn kids. into warrior kids. Get the Warrior Kid books. Mikey and the Dragons. Extreme ownership, dichotomy leadership. Leadership strategy and tactics. Go get that book.

Eshlon Front. We have a leadership consultancy. We solve problems through leadership. Go to Eshlamfront.com. Live events are coming up. They're selling out. We're kind of oversold some of them. Yeah.

We'll be moving some furniture. Yeah. Squeezing people in, but everything we do sells out. So if you want to come, go to Eschlamfront.com. If you need help inside of your own. company or organization with leadership. By the way, if you're having problems, then you have leadership problems. If you have problems with your supply chain, it's a leadership problem.

If you have problems with your process that you have in place, it's a leadership problem. If you have people doing the wrong things, it's a leadership problem. All these problems are leadership problem. Go to echelonfront.com. We also have online training at the Extreme Ownership Academy, Extreme Ownership.com. There's courses to take. You're not going to be a great leader if you read one book or you sit through one seminar you actually have to train just like going to the gym extreme ownership dot com check that

out and if you want to help service members active and retired you want to help their families you want to help gold star families check out mark lee's mom mom and mommelie she's got a charity organization does incredible things for veterans and active duty actually sometimes so if you want to donate or get involved go to america's mighty warriors dot org also check out heroes and horses dot We just got a report from the field It seems like at this time Micah Fink is ice climbing With a mountain lion that he just killed After it attacked him but he survived sure and now he's ice climbing to the top of a peak to save a horse

Hey also you got save our allies at save our allies dot dot org Great organization you heard some of the work that they did today there's to continue to do work around the world support mighty oaks the mighty oaks programs dot org sorry mighty oaks program this is check that one out just doing incredible stuff like I said these are these are organizations that have helped people that I know so please help them in return and if you want to connect with Chad go to Chad robashow.com also he's on social media Chad Robo show or Chad Robo

Chad Robo underscore official on his Instagram and of course Echo and I are on there as well We're not we're not there to draw you into the algorithm though So be careful if you go in there But if you want to find us Echo's at Echo Charles and I am at Jocko Willink and thanks to Chad once again Chad thanks for everything you've done and everything that you are doing We are certainly grateful for your sacrifice and your service.

And thanks to all the men and women out there in uniform who take risks every day to protect our way of life. And also thanks to our police and law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol secret service, all first responders, you also risk your lives for us. And we are thankful for that. And to everyone else out there,

there's going to be ups and downs. There's going to be wins. and there's going to be losses. And at certain points, you're going to come up against powerful forces or circumstances that can overwhelm you. And what do you do when that happens? Got a quick rule for you.

Do your best. Simply do your best. And you do that by going out there and getting after it. And until next time, this is Echo and Jocco. out