Jocko Podcast - 379: You Get To Decide Whether You Curl Up In a Ball, or Curl Your Fists To Brawl.

Episode Date: March 29, 2023

"Psychology for the Armed Services" Document analysis. Fight, flight, freeze. Resilience, discipline, and adapting to change. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocco Podcast number 3.79 with Echo Charles and me Joccoe Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. So, believe it or not, a little over four years ago, we did a podcast. Actually, we did two podcasts from a book called Psychology for the Fighting Man. This was a book that was written in 1943. The subtitle of the book is What You Should Know About Yourself and Others. we did five hours on that book.

We broke it into two podcasts. It's number 164 and 165. If you haven't listened to those two podcasts, a ton of good information in there. Well, that book, like I said, it was written in 1943. A couple of years after that,

the military released another book. It was in 1945. It was after World War II had ended. And this book was called Psychology for, the armed services. And there was a lot of information in it. That was very similar. That is very similar between the two books.

But there are some highlights that were changed, you know, as they wrapped up two more years of war in World War II. And I wanted to cover just some highlights of that from this book, this book called Psychology for the Armed Services. So there you go. We're gonna we're gonna we're gonna jump into it Psychology for the armed services it starts off from the preface saying psychology has never had Proper emphasis in American military development training and combat

Psychology is the science that asked what man is living breathing man why and how he does all that he does Hence there is no human activity and therefore no military activity that does not come within range of its investigation and of the application of its principles Psychology as the study of man has extensive application in every military field. So there you go. This is usable just about everywhere. It says one reason for this failure is that the scope of psychology has not been clearly understood. This perhaps has not been entirely the fault of the services. Psychologists like military men have had to create and use a technical language.

And like military men, they have become fearful of inaccuracy and misinterpretation of their special terms and turns of speech are departed from in any great degree. In any science, this attitude contributes to an underestimation of the need for keeping those men who do not speak the language of the science aware of developments within it. Okay, so cool. Here's what I want to talk about that. I have a reference that I make a lot about people speaking last. So if there's something that I don't understand, for instance, I don't understand how to program a computer. So when someone knows how to program a computer, they speak Latin. I don't.

When someone knows how to edit videos, they know how to speak Latin. I don't. The reason that brings this up is because back in the day, when the Bible was out, it was written in Latin. And so therefore, the people that spoke Latin translated the Bible for the other people. And they could say it said whatever they wanted it to say. The reason people get caught up in this, when I was a radio man in the seal teams, radios, propagation, programming of radios, the cryptological material. All those things were Latin to other people that weren't me. That means when someone said, hey, can we get this thing programmed?

I could say, yeah, sure, we can do it. could say that's not possible. I could literally say those two things. So when you're in a leadership position and you don't speak whatever language it is, you better have some good relationships. And you should hopefully investigate that language well enough that you can understand the broad concepts.

You can tell if something is true or not. So if I say, Echo, can you do this in the video? Gay Echo, can you make this can go take off like a rocket? Now, if you think that's a dumb idea, You could say, no, actually, we can't do that. And I just have to shrug my soldiers and say, okay. So if you think it's a cool idea, you're like, oh, yeah, no problem. So you speak Latin.

I don't. You can interpret the Bible. I can't. You can tell me what the Bible says. That's how you end up with a Spanish inquisition, right? Like people getting tortured to death. So be careful. And that's what they're basically saying here is that the psychologists get scared of who's going to

understand. Is it going to be misinterpreted? And so they just don't say anything, which is a problem. Yeah. And it's, this might be a broader, like, way to look at it, but the same exact thing where, yeah, if they speak Latin, they have the kind of luxury or the power to basically look out for their own interests, right? So if you're like, like your example of me making a video, I think it's dumb, right?

That's my interest. Like dumb shouldn't be done, right? It can be done. No, I can just make it look like it can't be done. That's my interest for it not to be done, right? That's my interest. So, like, you mentioned the, you said programming. in a computer, which I'm not sure if there's such thing as programming.

I'm sure there is, but it's like, let's say coding a website or something like this, right? We'll say. Okay, Latin speaker. Anyway, but when I was a kid, it was called computer programming. Okay. So you want to go back to the 80s with the TRS 80 and a Commodore Vic 20? That was called computer programming. So you want to call it coding now?

You want to step up there, call me a boomer? Yeah, no, no. You're actually right. There, of course, there is computer programming for sure. But nonetheless, let's say a website, it's more appropriate for this particular example, in my opinion, given what I know, which is not much. But either way, so website program, let's say you're, I'm working for you, I'm building website for you. And you're like, hey, I need this feature. I wanted to do this.

Now, I know how making that, I know the process to that. So I can be like, hey, I can't do it. Or that can't be done. you know, that's like, oh, that involves technology that doesn't exist yet or something like this. Or I could be like, hey, that's like, of course I could do that. But hey, just bear with me. This is going to be a lot of work. And it's going to be expensive.

It's kind of costly but worth it and all the stuff. Meanwhile, all I got to do is freaking go. Coffee in a case. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Here's my code, you know, 29 seconds and done.

And I'm like, hey, that's like, and I'll slow roll it, you know, whatever. That's me speaking. The big dollars. Yep. Exactly right. Yeah. So I can look out from my own interest. Meanwhile, you're blind to it.

Yeah. They say that, you know, the old, the classic, the mechanic thing. Yeah, yeah. Bring your car to the mechanic. Flux capacitors, bro, blah, that's going to cost about $2,800. Yeah. We can get it done for you, hopefully. Bro, they're going to take a while.

They're so, the ones that are, because there's varying levels of this, right, in the mechanic shop, right? Where they, um, the good ones, well, not good, the bad one, the devious ones, they'll scare you into it. They'll be like, hey, you can let it go. Oh, no, you can let it go. Yeah, yeah, but I just wouldn't put your family in the car. Yeah, exactly right.

It's like, I would just, you know, you could let it go, but you just never know with these things. I'd hate to see, you know, to have you driving down the freeway and this thing go out on you, you know, at 75 miles per hour, like that kind of stuff, you know. And I say, bring it. Yeah. What is true. Yeah. So that's the idea. What they were worried about the psychologists sometimes are the, they want to keep.

There's another little job security too, right? Yeah. Like, I can analyze what's making this person tick, but why would I tell you, then you don't have me as the expert? Yeah. What if you could just say hey Jonko if you want your website do that you could just click on this thing over here and open this menu and click You know open or whatever Yeah, but instead you're like oh I'm gonna I can do it for you Yeah, like a like Facebook right you get on Facebook like hey Echo I'd really like to change my profile picture

Yeah, you can be like okay. You know what? Why don't you send me a picture that you like and I'll try and get it uploaded in the next few days You could just tell me hey there's a cool screen on the blue a menu on the lower right click upload file and you can do it But you don't want to tell me that because you want that job security all day. So there you go. All right. They got some reasons why this happened. One of the reasons the psychology has not been fostered within the armed services between the Great Wars. It's been lack of books through which the military man might gain a clear idea of the manner in which principles of psychology apply to everything he does.

They just got some reasons. And then they talk about that book that I talked about earlier. Not until 1943 was any book written which endeavored to outline ordinary, inordinate. language, what the whole body of psychological knowledge held for the military man. And by the way, when I'm talking about the military man, I'm talking about men, women, people, human beings. Yes, they're putting it into a military context, but the reason that we talk about these things is because it transfers into all aspects of business and life. This book was psychology for the fighting man, of which several hundred thousand copies have been used in the armed services. Such a book would

have been of great value throughout the years of peace, but it was a development that did not come until war had reawakened military men to the need for it and psychologists to the desirability of helping with such a project. So, again, we covered that book on podcast 164-165. And then it talks about this book, and this book is going to make you a little bit nervous because it's going to basically say we're writing in Latin. Listen to this. The present book, which is the book, which the book will cover.

today psychology for the armed services arose from the first book which contained a minimum of technical explanation psychology for the armed services is intended as a textbook written on the college level but also a book in which the military and naval applications of psychological principles and the basic principles themselves are more fully developed than in the earlier work in the earlier work now I have both these books they're actually not as different as this the homeboy makes it out the sound. This guy Joseph I, Green, who's a colonel in the infantry,

send it in the infantry. But and as I looked through to find some of the differences, there was a lot. There was more similarities, way more similarities than there was differences. Some of the, the topics covered in this book, in this book that we're talking about right now, which is called the Psychology for the Armed Services,

the book that we're covering right now. Here's the contents of it. There's the use of psychology. in war there's the eye as a military instrument I was thinking I'm gonna get that to Huberman he'll be interested in that it goes in them I mean there's 40 or 50 pages I guess 40 pages of the eye as a military instrument the eye as a camera visual acuity glare visual fatigue got all these things visual adaption and night vision color and camouflage all that stuff is about sight so it's literally

talking about these things and we covered some of those in in the first podcast we're not gonna cover them today Then it goes into the ear as a military instrument, the nature of hearing, the physiology of hearing. Then it goes to smell in war. Again, this is kind of, this probably you weren't predicting these, right? No. Equilibrium and bodily orientation, topographical orientation. It's talking about how your mind works to remember maps and mental map making and things like that.

Efficiency and fatigue. Again, we covered a bunch of these already and they're not that much different in this. book in fact I would venture to say the other book is the book psychology for the mighty for the fighting man which is written in a little less Latin and a little more English is a little better efficiency and fatigue physical conditions of efficiency there's a whole section here called the selection of men and again we covered on the first one of this one doesn't differ that much use more technical terms but those are on podcast 164 165 learning

Talks about how we learn, how to teach, Army teaching, motivation and morale. Again, these are all things that were covered in English. More vernacular, common vernacular in the book, Psychology for the Fighting Man. Personal adjustment, fear, and anger. There's a section here about emotion. Now, we are going to touch on that one because that one is a little bit. There's some important points that I wanted to either rehash or show. the differences between there's a thing about sex,

which I was kind of like, how does that fit in? And then you start reading it. It's like, oh, you've got 3,000, 5,000 or 10,000 men with no women around. What is that doing to their brains? Well, it's going to have an impact. It's got leadership, and we are definitely going to touch on leadership.

That's the main reason why I decided, hey, you know what we do need to hit this book? Because of the leadership section. And then it closes out with rumor and, and panic and mobs and assessing opinion and discovering facts and propaganda and psychological warfare. The main things that we're gonna focus on is the fear and emotions and leadership, because I think those are the things

that actually lent some more information that was usable compared to what we covered on the first two podcasts four years ago when we covered those podcasts. The use of psychology in war, chapter one. War is fought by men. Modern war is fought by men. is fought by men and machines, a great variety of machines, but also a great variety of men

with various skills and abilities. Without men, the machines are useless. Without the special skills and abilities of men for operating the machines and for performing all the other complex operations of war, the armed forces would be helpless. In other words, the army and navy, in a very serious and specific manner have to take account of human nature. So no matter what you're doing, you have to account for human nature. And you get into a situation where you've got a bunch of machines, but you don't have people that can operate those machines, and you don't account for what that does to them and how that machine impacts them,

you're going to end up in a situation where things don't go the way you want them to go. So we have to understand the psychology. We have to understand human nature. It goes on in a way a man is himself a machine. That is to say he is a complex organism with certain properties, capacities, and abilities. Some of his abilities as well as some of his deficiencies he has inherited. For instance, no man can see as well in the dark as in daylight and every man who sees at all can see better at night after he has remained sometime in the dark. This human ability and limitation, this property of the seeing eye is inherent. It's training alters the capacity only a little. There are, however, great differences in sensitivity among men. Some have much better night vision than others and should therefore be the one selected for making observations at night.

The military problem here is first to know the capacities and limitation of the human eye and then to adjust the military requirements to them so as to employ the maximal visual acuity without demanding the impossible. is one example that they're giving. Some people can see better than others. Chuck Yeager. Unbelievable eyesight. Makes a great fighter pilot.

You have somebody that can't see very well. You don't want him to be a fighter pilot. Dave Burke? Good deal, too. Excellent eyesight. Less important nowadays because you got radar. But back in the day, you want that eyesight. Goes on.

most human skills are, however, not inherited, but learned. That is true of all complex skills. Men differ in their aptitudes for learning, for learning in general, and also for learning particular skills. This is somebody who's asking me about skydiving the other day. And they're like, you know, why would someone not be a good skydiver? Well, basically, I think most humans can get to a point where they're, they can do it, right? They can do it.

That was me you're talking to, by the way. Oh, okay. Some people are going to learn it quicker than others. Yeah. It's like surfing. There's some people you take their first day out surfing. They've never surfed before, and they can stand up their first day. They will stand up on this board and ride a wave on their first day.

Some people aren't going to be able to stand up on a board for four or five days. Almost everyone after four or five days is going to be able to stand up and ride a wave to the beach. Yeah. I don't know why that is. It's like in basic seal training. There's going to be some things. Let's say when you're out on San Clemente Island, you're going through the land warfare block of training.

You've got to shoot a certain qualification with a rifle. You've got to shoot a certain score on targets with a pistol and rifle. Out of every hundred guys that go out there, there's going to be one of them that just like doesn't, it's going to take them another shot. They're going to get rolled back. Out of every hundred. Maybe it's three out of every hundred.

Maybe it's seven. I don't know the numbers. I'm sure the buds instructors could tell you, hey, it's probably this, you know, whatever, 4%. But there are going to be some people that just don't, they're not going to be good at it. And they, very few people will actually get dropped from training because they couldn't fire a pistol and a rifle

and get the required score after two classes. I would say that number's got to be absolutely tiny. but there are going to be some people that are going to basically take longer to learn. Same thing with parachuting. Same thing with something more complex like close quarters combat. There's a certain standard you have to get to

when you're going through that what's now called SQT seal qualification training. You've got to get a certain level you can't make mistakes. You can only make three mistakes or whatever the number is. They have a way of grading it.

More people, there's probably seven people out of 100 that are or three people out of 100. I don't know what the number is, but what I'm trying to say is there's some people, it's going to take them longer to learn it. Occasionally, someone's not going to be able to learn it. Occasionally someone's not going to be able to learn it.

So we have to take that into account, and that's exactly what they're saying here, is that you've got to, and it goes into here, we take into account two factors, the different skills that men already have acquired and the different capacities they have for acquiring a particular,

a particular skill quickly. Because there's some people that they were already parachute qualified. Like they were a free fall guy. They're not going to have any trouble. Now, they might not have been a not a naturally gifted free follower, but they've got 280 jumps when they show up to buds. They're going to get to free. There's going to be no problem for them.

They've already done it before. Yeah, remember when I asked that because parachuting, free fall, skydiving, that stuff is like, since that's real foreign to me flying through the air and being good at it and then maneuvering like any kind of parachute equipment and that that's not obvious what kind of traits you need to have or not have to be good at that I don't even know what good looks like I know what bad looks like but I I don't even so it's like oh what makes you good

you know whatever like you know in in certain other like surfing for example you get a kid who has good balance because you you can see kids like this kid has good balance this kid inherited ability of balance right yeah Exactly right. Yeah, it's real obvious. Even if you don't surf, you're like, okay, if you have good balance, that's going to help you in surfing or, you know, snowboarding, you know, this case may or may not be. But skydiving is like, bray, you don't need balance. Well, not in, when you look at someone skydiving, it doesn't intuitively hit you like, oh, you need balance for that.

Even though you probably, I don't know, I'm assuming you probably do need some kind of balance. No, you don't need balance. Oh, yeah. There's this, what's makes skydiving a weird example. Yeah. Because there's this, I think it's proprioception. Yeah. And then very rapid learning.

because you have to learn that, oh, when I move my arm like this, it makes me go over there. When I move my other arm like this, it makes me go over there. So you're learning very rapidly how your body is reacting to what your body is doing. Yeah.

And therefore, if you have that ability to do that, you'll get good at it quickly. Yeah. If you don't, it's a weird, there's a weird instinct when it comes to free falling. And that is,

if in a way, your brain can think you're, your brain can think you're in the water. Yeah. Because there's no other thing to compare it to. And when you're in water, you're kind of weightless. But if you want to move over there, you kind of move that. And so you see guys skydiving, they swim.

They like try and swim through the air, but it doesn't work that way at all. That's crazy. So, yeah, I think it has to do with proprioception and then it has to do with being able to rapidly learn what your body is doing and what the reaction is and then making adjustments. Yes. And you know what I think, I think, I don't know, I'm not an expert, but what I think is rapidly learn. And at the same time, probably equally as important, almost it's a version of unlearning too. So like you mentioned like skydiving and swimming, right? Most people, if they know how to swim, it seems natural.

They think it's almost like a language, right, where you got to like unlearn that language. It doesn't mean this anymore. So like you're in the pool or in the ocean, when you're swimming, when you do this thing, it has this result. And it's automatic already right in your brain. You've got to unlearn that in the air, right? It's just like, so snowboarding, whatever. If you're not used to it, this is my experience. In the beginning, when you're not used to it

and you're like, you kind of go into sort of panic mode, which is that's when you go to your natural instincts. You want to lean back and whatever. I'm going too fast. I want to lean back. You know, that's just the thing. But leaning back gives you less control. You can't turn.

It's like it's basically the exact opposite of what you want to do to control your speed. your turn, whatever. But so you gotta unlearn that. And it's hard to unlearn for certain people when they're so, when they learned it so, I don't know what the word would be like hardcore. They learned it so hard, it's so ingrained in them.

It's harder to unlearn that kind of stuff. So it's hard to learn the new stuff you gotta learn. You know what I'm saying. And different people will be at different capacities across the spectrum of what we're talking about. Some people they feel that almost immediately they go, oh, I gotta lean forward. And all of a sudden they're good to go.

Yeah. Some people, they just can't, they have a different capacity for learning. And by the way, that capacity for learning in this particular case has nothing to do with your intellectual capacity. Because they're smart people that are sky trash when it comes to skydiving, right?

Sky trash. Or they're terrible doing CQC. They're the smartest person with the highest ASVAB score, meaning they have the highest capacity for intellectual learning and they're a train wreck in the house. Or there are a train wreck in the sky. Like this happens. So there's this, and it talks about this,

I don't know how much we're gonna cover this, But in the selection of men in the other book in psychology for fighting man, it's like you could take the most, let's say the person with the highest intellectual capacity and he's going to be terrible at some jobs. For instance, jobs that don't require a lot of intellectual thought. They're going to get bored, they're not going to care, they're going to look for shortcuts.

That's a real problem. And then you take someone that doesn't have a high intellectual capacity, they might be good at this particular job. But you put them in the job that requires a high intellectual capacity. and they're going to have problems. Yeah, that's such a like genius yet simple way to put it, which, to me honestly, you never really thought of in these exact terms

where if you're good at something, whether it be like anything requiring intellectual ability, smarts, whatever the word is, whatever the quality is, if you put them in a job that doesn't require that, they might not be that good at it regardless of how. Yeah, so it's one of the, it's actually a fallacy. It's a cognitive bias.

I forget what it, you actually mentioned it a few weeks ago. It's where it's, I think it's, It's a form of anchoring or, no, no, it's like the halo effect, I think. Halo effect, yeah. Where, yeah, where like. They're good at this. Yeah, this guy is a Princeton master's degree, you know, whatever. So of course he's gonna be good at everything when it's like, but it's not true.

He's good at getting Princeton degrees in that subject, you know? And what's really crazy is you take a, you take a guy that went to an Ivy League school who had a perfect SAT score and you put him in a seal patoon. He doesn't know how to interact with other people. He doesn't have good emotional IQ, right? And so he's a disaster. You know, there was a while when they were recruiting. a bunch of these Ivy League guys for the SEAL team. This was in the 90s.

And they realized after a little while, we're not getting what we want. We're getting some of what we want. Some of the guys are fantastic. We have some Ivy League officers that were great officers. We also had some Ivy League officers that were disasters. And they realized they were looking for the wrong thing. Yeah.

They were looking for, oh, we'll just grade them, Halo effect. Oh, this person went to Harvard and got a great SAT score. They must be smart. They're going to be a great SEAL Patoon leader. Nope. Doesn't work that way. Sorry.

And look, they can be great. Yeah. But it's not necessarily. And there's a decent chance that they're not good. So you've got to pay attention to these things. This is the use of psychology and war and life. It goes on here to say, since you cannot create new men for war,

you have to adapt the men already available. Thus, it comes down. It does, comes about that. The great task of creating new forces is principally a matter of selection and training. It is necessary to choose men. who already have the needed skill or else to train them. Actually, the armed forces do both.

If a civilian skill like typewriting is also a military skill, men already have that ability to type as can easily be selected. If there's not enough, you can train them. That's basically what it says there. Then it says, well, it's basically this is what we were just talking about. For training, there are differences of aptitude among men. A mentally deficient man, although perhaps bright enough for a number of tasks necessary,

in the armed forces could never learn code fast enough to make training him worthwhile. Many bright men moreover lack code aptitude and should not be trained when more apt men are available. Psychological tests can determine what capacity a man has for learning a wide variety of tasks for learning code in particular. Selection and training go hand in hand.

This is, I think this, yeah, this is talking about Morris code. I had to learn Morris code. And again, what's interesting about learning Morris code was we had to learn to send and receive Morris code. And I forget the numbers, but there was a qualification we had to get in order to pass the Radio Men school that I went to for being a seal, radio mine RTO. And some guys, dude, they freaking struggled. They struggled with it. So I think everyone ended up passing, but some guys barely passed.

I think they got a little extra love from the freaking chief that was running the course. Like, all right, dude, you're close enough. If we have a thermonuclear war, and the only way to transmit communication is through HF, Morris Code, you're going to die. But other than that, you'll be all right. But it's interesting. And some of the guys were just like, like, there was no one that was some brilliant guy that, oh, this is easy. Some of the smart guys had a hard time. Some of the guys that were kind of rocks were like, oh, this is easy.

You know what I'm saying? Like they just happen to have it's like tonal languages. Do you know what those are? Yes. Like in actual, I was going to say like pretty much any language scenario, like if you have exposure to, let's say three different languages,

you don't necessarily have to talk them, but you have exposure to them constantly or whatever. The probability of you picking up like another language, even they can be along the same lines just to a small degree. You're going to pick it up way better than the smartest of guys. Well, I mean, not every single time. But for the most part, the smartest of guys who has very little or no exposure to other languages. Yeah.

Yeah, totally. The tonal languages are you hear the differences. I would love to give you a great example. I think one of them is like the word cow in Thai. And it's like cow, cow, cow, cow. And they might sound the same to an American that speaks English. but for them one means rice one means white one means eat like they all mean different things and some guys gif gif went to Thai language school oh yeah or do you go to tie or Vietnamese

he might have gone to Vietnamese but he went to a tonal language school and he said some people like they just can't hear it oh yeah they just could not hear it so we in sixth grade I took Mandarin Chinese and that was the deal I was like there a lot of these words are the same words technically but like the way and it was the actual Chinese ladies and it was the actual Chinese So she was she was she was that was her first language. So I was like I am not going to be able to learn that plus I was in sixth grade. So you know so it's different than like Spanish because so Hawaiian, Japanese, um, Filipino. These are like the cultures that are in Hawaii. Right. So you get different accents and then not to mention pigeon, which is like that's an accent. So Spanish easy. Like if you technically, if you really want a good like, uh, how should say scaffolding for Spanish, it's basically pigeon with a. a rolled r that's it sure you if you do a Spanish or like a Spanish accent and take off the the R's at the end and you replace them with a like a um you got pigeon straight up and i'll it's a funny example of this where you ever watch you ever heard uh or seen the movie 50 first

dates no see that okay so it's adam sandler this sounds like a romantic comedy yeah okay yeah therefore i have not seen but rob schneider okay you know great american actor um he uh he uh he He played, I forget his name on there, but he played a full on local Hawaiian guy, right? So he had to do a pigeon accent. And he'd mess it up because he'd include the R's and it just sounds like a Spanish accent. But all you get is take off the R at the end, make it into a, boom, you got pigeon. It's easy to recognize when you hear pigeon, you hear Filipino accents. You hear like all these different accents and you're like, oh, I see that one.

You know, it's like way more recognizable. So it'll come way more natural. But some people have a natural ability. Now, whether that's natural because they were around languages when they were little, I don't know. But by the time they're ready to be trained, some of them have that ability, some of them don't. And that's the way it is. And if you try and take someone that can't hear those different tones and you try and make them learn Mandarin Chinese, it ain't going to happen. It ain't going to happen.

So that's what they're saying in here. And they actually just say this. It does not matter whether aptitudes are inherited or learned. You have to take them as you find them. A learned civilian skill can often constitutes an aptitude for learning a military skill. For instance, civilian truck drivers have an aptitude for driving army trucks. Still need to much further training. Pretty straightforward.

What's interesting about this is this is a little bit counter to the idea, the modern idea that you can do whatever you want, Echo Charles. Like, oh, you can do anything, Echo. Like your parents, oh, Echo, you can do anything. Hey, man. Actually, you can't learn Mandarin, right? because you can't hear tones. So you can, but it's going to be a huge effort

and you're never going to be very good at it. Because there's some people that learn a language, but damn, dude, like it is hard. And they don't sound, they still sound like a gringo like no matter what. So that's a reality that a lot of times people don't want to face. Like, hey, you just don't really have the capacity for this thing. And you shouldn't really be doing this, right?

And you better hope that what you want to do lines up with what you can do. You know, like Dave Burke. Good deal, too. Yeah. Obviously, he wanted to be a fighter pilot. Yeah. And he's a humble guy.

But he also quite obviously had a natural ability. He had, he, to be to, to have achieved the level of pilot that he did, he clearly had some level of natural ability. We know he had great eyesight. But he, and the weird thing is he wasn't like, he didn't play baseball. He didn't have some big hand eye cord. He had a natural gift at some level to be able to fly as good as he could fly. Some feeling for that. Some thing that you get when you move that plane around, you understand it.

You're connected to it where some people aren't. And look, and he also got maximum training, you know, being a top gun fighter pilot and a top gun instructor and all those things. But he had to have some natural level to be able to make that stuff happen. And thankfully for him, luckily for him, those things lined up. You know, if he was like, oh, I really want to be a Mandarin, you know, linguist, there's a chance he couldn't have done that. He might have been like, oh, I want to be a, what's another job in the military? Oh, here's one. I want to be EOD.

He might have been colorblind. And if you're colorblind, you can't be EOD. Like, that's just a disqualifier. Oh, yeah. So you got to hope that you are lucky enough that what you want. to do is what you can do, but also you've got to be savvy enough to say, you know what? I want to do that, but I can't do it. You know, I want to do that, but I actually can't do it, so I need to find something else

to do. It says, these problems concerning human abilities and aptitudes are psychological, often not always. It is the psychologist who can help armed forces find out what human abilities are needed and how to acquire them by selection of training. Psychology is the study of human nature and wars are fought by human. beings so there you go it goes on to say psychological military problems also include the study of the other persons with whom the armed forces have to deal the civilians on the home front who support the armed forces the civilians of occupied country

who come in contact with soldiers and sailors the enemy civilians and the enemy and soldiers and sailors military men must know about the habits and thought of thought and action of all these kinds of people they are often concerned with their beliefs their emotions their prospective actions. The leaders use various means for assessing opinions of such social groups, and then knowing how these groups are thinking and feeling, they may try to alter their opinions using psychological warfare.

There's all kinds of things that are psychological or psychology is used for in war. As a matter, as a practical matter, the psychological business of the Army and the Navy with which this book is concerned breaks down to the following seven fields, It's observation, performance, selection, training, personal adjustment, social relations, opinion, and propaganda. And so, like I said, a lot of these we covered on podcast 164 and 165, but there was some interesting excerpts that are a little bit different. One of those sections is about emotion and specifically here we're going to talk about fear because I think there's a lot to learn when I reread this section. Fear is an unpleasant emotion.

If intense, it involves presently the whole psychological, the whole physiological pattern induced by the action of the sympathetic nervous system. It differs from anger in that it is characterized by an attempt to withdraw from the scene or avoid the fearful situation. So that's what fear does. This whole sympathetic nervous system is going to do things. Things are going to get released. Adrenaline's going to all those things are going to happen to try and make you avoid the fearful situation. The energy with which the sympathetic system provides the body in a fearful emergency is normally used for escape, not for attack. Fortunately, the energy can nevertheless be diverted from flight to attack, and thus fear may come to have a military use.

So you may feel fear. And you can change that fear from making you want to run. You can utilize that energy. You can utilize anger. You can utilize frustration. You can actually utilize these emotions as long as you control your emotions, as long you understand what's happening. It says fear thrives on frustration.

It persists and grows when danger impends, especially if there's nothing the fearful man can do to lessen the threat against him. Action, on the other hand, always lessens or may even abolish fear, resolving the frustration and eliminating it. Now, this is why you get freaking guys in. World War I getting shell shock because there's nothing you can do about you're sitting in a trench waiting to get able to die Like at least when you charge you're charging but sitting that's why it's called shell shock It wasn't called attack shock because when you're attacking you feel better when you're sitting in a trench waiting to die

Waiting to have a freaking giant shell land on your spot and get blown to smithereens like all of your friends have been And there's nothing you can do about it The soldier who transforms fear into escape rushing headlong through the woods overfensers and across gullies is usually too busy to feel afraid anymore others will describe him as afraid but the emotion that started his action the gnawing haunting sickening dread will itself very likely be gone it may come again if he is stopped by an obstacle or a command being forced to wait inactive for danger to come to him so you get that that fear comes up once it's going once you're taking action it's kind of gone people tell you

that fear and anger are sometimes mixed, it seems much more likely that what happens is the fearful man at bay turns on his enemy to attack him, just as the fearful animal attacks when cornered. The man who is attacking, whether he be grappling with another man with his life as the prize, salute, or shooting from a foxhole as the enemy comes across the clearing is working his sympathetic system for all it is worth, but not any longer feeling very much afraid he is much too busy that's funny when we had uh we had mike thornton on and i asked him you know he's running across to get his you know shot platoon leader there's just total mayhem going on mike thornton medal of honor recipient seal team one and he came on and gave us a full debrief i was

like oh were you scared he's like no i was busy this is exactly what he says his mouth may be dry he may feel a lump in his throat still and a little bit sick in his stomach but the sympathetic system does that does that to him but at least you could not say whether he's afraid or angry chiefly he is active and moved neither specifically afraid nor angry fear as distinguished from anger is often identical with anxiety that state of depressed unpleasant fatigued apprehensive worry which frustration always produces fatigue always accompanies prolonged anxiety and also those early stages of fear before the sympathetic system has released enough adrenaline

into the blood to abolish it. On the other hand, acute terror suddenly aroused is something more than anxiety. The terrorized person knows of what he is afraid and his sympathetic system may be energized too rapidly for him to feel fatigue. At any rate, he will not be in terror. He will not in terror be noticing fatigue. What he noticed is usually inhibition, inability to act, run, or fight. So often terror immobilizes a man.

It may, of course, mobilize him instead and make him run and panic. So it's pretty interesting that that terror is going to, I mean, either freeze you up or make you mobilized. We prefer immobilized. This is flight, flight, or freeze, remember? I don't know if I remember, it used to be fight or flight. someone at some point someone added freeze yeah and I've seen guys freeze yeah I've seen guys fight I've seen some flight can get a little bit crazy the characteristics of fear are then unpleasantness fatigue and the desire to escape a state of mind that ends ordinarily in getting

the sympathetic system to work and sometimes in vigorous action which replaces the fear the action of attack or escape or of doing something else either about the danger or about something that is important. A man may forget his fear when he suddenly has his wounded comrade to attend to. Forget fear through his danger is not, though his danger is not diminished. So, and this is again, action, taking action. I said this on the Huberman, when I was on Huberman's podcast, you know, I was like, oh, you're hesitant, you're scared. Like, action is the solution. Here you go. The Army using its excellent questionnaire method. That's an exact quote. And I don't I don't know if someone was just kissing ass to the person that wrote this or whatever,

but says the Army using its excellent questionnaire method has collected from combat troops, a list of fears, a list of their felt symptoms of fear. Here is what the list with the frequencies with which the symptoms were reported. The reason I wanted to go over this is because I always talk about detaching. And I talk about knowing what your red flags are, meaning how do you know when you need to detach? And I always talk about, hey, you start to raise your voice because you're getting mad. You start to clench your fists because you're getting mad. You start to get red in the face because you're getting mad.

You start to breathe harder because you're getting mad. So all those things are good to identify so that you can recognize that you're starting to lose your temper or get emotional. It says here, violent pounding of the heart, 86%. Sickening, feeling in the stomach, 75%. Feeling sick in the stomach, 59%. Trembling and shaking 56% cold sweat 55% tense feeling in the stomach 53% Feeling of weakness and faintness 51% vomiting 24% losing control of bowels 10% Urinating in the pants 10% what is the percentages represent?

How often people reported this or the the frequencies with which the symptoms were reported So 10% of people said they pissed their pants 10% of people said they shit their pants 24% of people said they threw up We used to catch a lot of guys Like insurgents or terrorists when we would hit their houses At 2 o'clock in the morning There was I would say there was more than 10% of people that pissed themselves They may be men but not that much but it was pretty normal

That a guy shit himself for you pissed himself like some Mujahideen fighter You blast their door off their house they're pissing their pants That's great It was always kind of nasty to deal with That makes sense Yeah But what's interesting about those is we got to remember what are those for you? You know, next time you get pissed and you lose your temper, try and reverse, engineer it

and figure out what you could have noticed so that you can stop it next time. It says here, it says here, mostly fear makes sense to the fearful man because he knows of what he's afraid. He knows not only that he is afraid, but that he has reason to be afraid. Sometimes he becomes anxious, however, without any assignable cause. He is scared, but he does not know that he is. And this is something I have talked about a lot. When I would have a fighter in the UFC and they'd be nervous and they wouldn't know what it was,

but they'd feel like sick and they feel like, and it's like, oh, that's nerves and it's good because it's preparing you for combat. If you don't tell them that, they actually think they're sick. They think there's something wrong with them. Same thing with combat. Oh, you feel like a little bit sick? You've gone to the, you know, you've hit the out, you've hit the, uh, the porta potty four times in the last 20 minutes.

You good? And they think they feel sick, but they're really just nervous. Yeah. They take that combat shit three times before they get in their Humvee because they're nervous as hell. And so you go, hey man, it's all good. That's just your nerves. And that's a good thing. I always tell them, it's a positive thing.

I mean, your body's getting ready for combat. So that's good. Says here he wants to get out of fighting while. his pride makes him want to fight, so he finds himself frustrated in conflict, too proud to admit even to himself, his desire to escape. He goes on about his work, depressed, tired, feeling sick to his stomach, not knowing the cause of his trouble. Actually, he's afraid.

You do not have to know of what you are afraid in order to be afraid, although you will seldom tell other persons about a fear that seems you have no reasonable cause. It is because action is the cure for fear that courage and fear so often go together. This is awesome. A man is afraid. Because he is afraid, his sympathetic nervous system is gearing him to activity. Physically, he is in good position to do something about the danger that haunts him. Shall it be escape or attack? Discipline, pride, confidence in leaders, belief in war, aims, and a host of other forces, press him on toward bravery. Thus, his heart in his throat, He stumbles into action, finds action good, lets out a yell from his dry mouth, and is soon fighting away vigorously.

His mouth moist again and his fatigue gone. His fear was useful. It provided the energy and other things steered him to the right kind of activity. Boom. Oh, you're scared? I'm going on the attack. When we were kids, it was like, it was actually a mix between. fear and anger probably some like frustration where basically you do that you'd kind of like

flip the switch where it just turns to complete aggression right that's like the process and we'd call it amping out so like when you when you Christmas story yes that was a perfect example ramping out yeah rage so that was like a it's like an expression when we're little kids like now yeah when two people get into a fight like there's a different if you two guys getting a fight and getting mad and talking trash to each other and all that and then a guy just amping out. Like echo amped out.

Yes. He was like a thing. And it's a very, very, very distinct differentiator when a guy amps out and a guy just gets into a fight. Because when you amp out, you're crying. Like everything is coming out. Everything.

You're crying. You may or may not be yelling. You're winning. Most likely. You don't know when to stop. Like, you know, just like on Christmas story where he was beating that kid down down. And they had to break it up or whatever.

were like that's hamping out so it's like all the the version the essentially the beginner version of taking all that negative like the fear and all that stuff and then like directing it utilizing it amping out there you go man isn't it isn't incredible like how specific this is and yet how totally accurate it is and how if you understand it then you can recognize it yourself and you can recognize it and others. Yeah. Like when you see someone's afraid, the best thing you can do is tell them, hey, who's what we're going to do?

Unfortunately, it goes back to the book here. On the other hand, fear does not always disappear in combat, perhaps because not all combat is active or because activity is not strong enough to banish fear. The army has questioned combat troops as to when they feel the most fear. 39% of men reported fear as the strongest before battle. 35% said it was strongest during battle. 16% said it was greatest, the greatest fear came for them after combat

and 10% couldn't decide. Have you ever done something when you got done? You were like, whole. Yes. That's the one that seems to stick out in my mind the most. Yeah. I've come back from something and been like, dang.

You ever been in, because the time or one of the times that sticks out the most to me is, I was a white man. North Shore. Oahu. Damn. And it was a big day.

He was a huge day. And I went out, whatever. I grew up in the... Sponging? No, just body surfing. Yeah, yeah, no. So, you know, I grew up in the water, whatever. I'm not one of these visitors who were intimidated by this kind of stuff.

But I went out there. I was like, oh, yeah, it's big. It's big out there. And you got to go with the flow where I was just focusing now. I can't catch any of these ways. They're too big. And there's too many of them coming, you know. Guys are shredding, surfing outside.

And then I was like, okay, I'm going back in. This is not fun. You know, I'm like, all my attention and everything. is going is going to going under these ways preparing for the next way yeah it's like survived but I wasn't scared necessarily yeah I was more like this is too much work and it's not fun out here you know it's like it's not fun so I went in and as I went in that's when I was like bro that was scary like I felt the actual fear afterwards which in a way when you kind of think about it like doesn't make that

much sense because you'd think oh yeah when it hits you that's when it's scary right but I guess maybe to be able to focus on what I was doing to realize how in danger probably was. Yeah. I was out surfing with my son when he was a little kid. Yeah. And it was a big day. And we were surfing this spot where if you get in the wrong spot,

you're going to get slammed into a cliff. And you're going to have real problems. Yeah. And normally, as long as you catch waves and you ride, you know, you ride, you know, you know, across a wave, that you ride. that you ride away from that area. Well, something that happened where he fell or something like this, and all of a sudden he was in the complete danger zone.

And I remember I had just caught a wave and wrote it correctly. And so now I'm, I see him. I look back and I see him like, I didn't see what happened, but now he was in the zone of destruction. How old was he at this time? He was probably like nine. And I look at him and I was kind of, I just was thinking to myself, this is a test.

because he has to get himself out of here. I mean, I'm going to go. I mean, look, if he starts going to the rocks, I guess I'll go over there, but it's probably going to be a problem for both of us then, right? And I'm just looking at him going, like, does he, I was thinking myself, does he know the situation he's in right now?

And he just, you know, he just looked pretty normal and paddled back out and made it, it was a little bit of a struggle, but he got back out, you know, and I was kind of like, how'd you get in there? He's a, he's definitely, when he got out of it, he definitely had recognized, I didn't recognize it, but he seemed pretty calm in the situation,

but I think he, after he got out, was like, that was sketch. Yeah. That, it means that story. One time he, well, another funny day, it was a big, even bigger day. We were in a different spot. And I caught a wave, and then he caught a wave, and then we were both trying to get back out, and it was closing out, and we were inside, again, up against rocks where there's no good option.

option and his leash broke on his board and I saw you know he and I was watching him like I came up and I was looking for him and he came up and I could see as soon as he came up and he knew his leash was gone and he was just like by his own as he used to say he was out there and he had a look on his face like I'm gonna need some help yeah I got you and he helped him yeah I did oh yeah for sure because if I didn't help him it could have been a problem I also dig the hell out of my board because it's Well, his board, he was surfing a phone board. This when he was a little kid. He used to go out on a phone board. As you heard Josh Hall tell that story, with Josh Hall's like, gonna yell at me because I had a little kid out there

is too dangerous. Josh Hall was gonna come and give me the business. And he came tattled over and he's like, I'm just gonna let this guy do what he wants. That was my intro to Josh Hall. But yeah, it was one of those days. A big, big, big man day. Like, there's no kids out there.

There are barely even men out there. Yeah, and that's like a, you know, It might sound dramatic to be like, hey, because that can be life or death, but, bro, it is. Oh, no, you can't. And you brought this a few weeks ago where, bray, you can't fight waves.

You can't fight them. You know what's sketchy when you're in big, big waves? When you know the water, that's like white water, and you don't get the normal pull against it. It's just like pulling it air, you know? That's what's thinking about when we were talking about free fall. Like, you're just going and it doesn't move you anywhere. Can't catch that breath.

Oh, man. Check. All right. It says here. I'm going to go to this section here so it goes into fighting fear a great deal can be learned about fear from a study the rules for overcoming it here they are action dispels fear it's the guess is so important that's why like your kids caught in the surf zone you know what you do you go hey start paddling out hey paddle paddle south you know like you give them to do just don't let him sit there you know you got to give them something to do action dispels fear in the suspense before combat when men are Ready for action and waiting for the signal for the signal to start fears at its height It will disappear for many of the men when action commences a questionnaire given to several hundred members of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade Veterans of the Spanish Civil War disclosed that 71% of these men experienced greater fear before going into action

Then during action and only 15% experienced more fear during action It says here knowledge of the situation lessens fear the unfamiliar is always more fearful than the familiar you cannot even plan how to man how to meet a strange and ill-defined danger men in combat should therefore be told as much about the enemy as possible where he is likely to be met and in what strength what kinds of weapons he's likely using tactics so people fear the unknown habit makes fear less effective fear is disorganizing it makes men less alert takes their attention from important matters

causes them to act for inadequate reasons. That is how panic gets started. But discipline, yes, discipline. Discipline fortunately controls them and gets them started on the right actions. Then in action, the mind clears up and the fear disappears. Discipline is the soldier's friend in emergency.

It carries him through when he might otherwise fail. Soldiers sometime report they are much more afraid during bombardment. When on furlough in a city, than when they're on the firing line. They've been trained for battle, and in battle, they have their job to do. Some men yield to fear more easily than others because they have not formed the habit of suppressing emotion and acting on judgment.

There are differences in the emotionality of people that depend upon their habits and training. Number four, calm behavior lessens fear. It lessens fear and others for both fear and self-possession are contagious. self-possession. That's a good word. Having control of yourself. For this reason, each man has a responsibility to control the signs of his own fear. And the successful leader is, of course, a man who can remain calm in danger.

If a soldier goes to pieces and becomes panicky, then he should, when possible, be removed from the sight of other men. Assumed calm does, moreover, lessen fear in the man who assumes it. he finds his pride working against his panic. If you act calm, you're going to be calm. It's a good rule to have. Freaking out. Doesn't help anybody. Humor fights fear.

In trying times, intense moments, a laugh can be a lifesaver. There's a story from the First World War of American troops facing an unexpected horror. They were being fired on by another battalion of their own regiment. The captain was nervous and afraid, ready to fight. back on their comrades the captain or sorry the men were nervous and afraid ready to fire back on their comrades the captain restored morale it was unintentional but he did it Jackson he called yes captain where are you right here across the road stand up so I can see you captain Jackson shouted in a lull between bursts of machine gun fire if you want to see me you stand up the chuckle

that ran down the line restored order commands were given the men crept out of the zone of fire Six, companionship decreases fear. Men should whenever possible be within sight or hearing of other men in the time of battle danger, although not bunched together, so they can make a common target. The sight of another man who seems not panicky is reassuring. Dude, so, so good. Got to watch. People want to bunch up. I wrote about that in leadership strategy and tactics.

Don't bunch up. We used to say that all the time in urban combat training, in land warfare training, on the battlefield. Don't bunch up. You have to say that over and over because people want to get close to you. People want to get close to each other. There's like a little feeling of comfort. You got to be like, dude, back off.

Knowledge of statistics helps fear. Even when casualties are heavy, comparatively few men are killed, the chances that any one man will be mortally wounded in any one battle are small. In the entire Allied armies, the First World War, the only one man in nine was killed or died

as a result of war in all four. years of fighting. I'm going to call bullshit on that. You want to know why? Because most people weren't on the front lines fighting. That's what we learned from the book I remember the last war. That guy's like, hey, there's not many, he goes, there's books about World War I. There's not about books about from the trenches because we didn't, most guys didn't make it. And so that's saying, this is, this is saying the chances that any one man would, would be mortally wounded in one battle were small. In the entire allied armies in the first, World War, only one man in nine was killed or died as a result of wounds.

Okay. That's all the people. That's all the people. That's the people in the rear with the gear. It's the people in logistics. Is it the people that are slogging food and ammunition up to the front lines? It's all the people that are back in England, like in their desk, writing up orders. It's everyone.

It's like, bray, you're kind of making this a little bit different here. Number eight, religious faith diminishes fear. The men who believe in God's protection and immortality may be greatly sustained in that period of fear before a battle. They can pray too, and for them, prayer works as it has worked for so many men throughout the ages. Even the man alone in a shellhole is not alone if he feels that God is with him. All reports from the fighting fronts show that religious faith is an efficient enemy of fear. Many leaders encourage prayer before combat among their troops. Few men in foxholes say, they say, are atheists.

There you go. Loyalty works against fear. The man who lacks faith in God may nevertheless be controlled by a deep loyalty and responsibility to his comrades, to his unit, to his leader. Another important antidote for fear is belief in the cause of which he is fighting. Men must have a clear idea of what's his stake. Nearly all prudent men are afraid in the face of danger, but not so many of them are inhibited by fear, are terrorized by it. Every emergency, every great danger to a group reveals many quiet heroes. And the greater the morale of the unit, the greater number of unpretentious heroes in it.

Men will crawl out of foxholes under shell fire to gather up the remains of a shattered comrade because that is the sort of men they are. Affection and responsibility are not strangers to the battlefield and they can overcome fear. Number 10. Good physical condition works against fear. Tired, sleepy, hungry men are much more likely to be fearful than men in good physical condition. The tired man does not think clearly. He is prone to illogical fears to belief in rumor than the rested man.

The healthy man can do something about fear. The ill man lacks the energy combatant. Stay in good shape, people. Knowing about fear reduces fears. And this is kind of what I already covered. So many inexperienced soldiers are afraid of being afraid. Fear itself is the great unknown of which they are fearful. And this is what I was talking about.

If you don't know why you feel a little bit queasy or why you feel nervous or why you can't stop shaking, then you're like, what's wrong with me? It's okay, dude. When soldiers know that fear in combat is natural is highly contagious and almost inevitable, but that courage is also contagious that part of the battle against fear is won. Now it goes into a section about anger. And again, I just want to hit this really quickly because it's emotion, right? And I often talk about you have to have control over your emotions.

Anger is probably one of the more damaging emotions, oftentimes in the civilian sector. It stands from ego. Your ego is what's driving you to become angry. It says here, anger like fear is emotional response to frustration. If a man feels that his freedom of thought or action is threatened, it makes him angry. And when he is angry, he's likely to be aggressive, to be on the offensive. People, or sorry, place any obstacle in the path of man's strong desire and he's likely to attack it. So what's interesting about this is that all sounds good, right?

until you're in an administrative situation, you're getting angry and you're attacking people that they'll deserve to be attacked and you're making the situation worse. Fear and anger often blend. A parent fear may mask anger, especially when fear is strong. The child may resent the order.

The bully has given him, but is afraid to say so, afraid to rebel, pale and trembling. He carries out the order when he would really like to knock the bully down. Or apparent anger may mask fear. The commanding officer worried about the turn in battle, afraid that the enemy will overpower his men,

may bark orders threaten, insult, and otherwise offend the men. He covers his own fears by authoritativeness, seldom realizing that he is doing so. Such a good little point. You know, when that person's losing control. I've seen this in so many examples because when I was running trade at,

you know, shit would be going sideways and that officer would get mad and start yelling at people The chief would get mad and start yelling and people are like, oh, here comes the breakdown. Because he's not making good decisions, by the way. That's crazy. Yep. Did you see people yell in the nightclub industry occasionally? You were working for some chill people.

Yeah, not in that capacity. No, not really. That's good. That's a good sign. Such blends of fear and anger probably occur most frequently when the situation arises anxiety. Anger like fear has the support of the sympathetic nervous system. There's also man's response to an emergency of any threat to a man's vital interest or attack upon them will arouse anger. Threaten or destroy a man's cherished property or his loved ones and his own pride and equally beloved self-esteem.

And you have almost inevitably an angry man on your hands. These are good things to pay attention to. Just think about when you hurt someone's self-esteem, that can bring about anger. His anger tends to warp his judgment. for an angry man is rarely as wise as he is when he is calm and his anger itself may be unreasoned it has been said that a prize fighter sometimes tries to get his opponent angry so as to make him less skillful in his fighting so there you go um and it goes on to say just as all fear is not inefficient panic or terror so not all anger is blind useless rage

or fury. Anger against the enemy aids in combat since it helps a man to take the offensive. Yet it is surprising how little soldier feels anger after the intense activity of combat has begun. There is also, moreover, a cool, sustained anger that may motivate a man successfully for a long period of time. He resents perhaps the cruelty and injustice and originally unprovoked aggression of the enemy and he is determined upon vengeance. Such anger is good, especially. when combined with the peculiar kind of elation that comes from talks by able leaders before battle. It does not warp judgment unduly and is the cause of righteous action. Anger then properly aroused, directed and controlled is useful in the services.

Hatred on the other hand is not useful. Hatred immobilizes since hatred is repressed anger. Hatred then is to be voided except as it is accompanied. by anger so there you go that that is anger once aroused anger must be properly directed you can utilize that right you can utilize that you're your freaking workouts you know what I'm saying I used to do that with fighters like fighter would be mad because they're getting frustrated make him do some burpees like make them do something use that stuff in any case anger ought to be controlled by the

angry man himself let him consider whether He understands fully the causes of his frustration so that he can choose the right persons for the blame. Let him not be hasty, but know what he does in anger and why he does it. All right. Now we're going to get into this leadership section. And it says, there's no skill that the armed forces need so badly as the capacity to lead men. This is true in any industry, by the way. They need it because it is vital to the working of the military machine.

and they are aware of this need because it is so inadequately supplied. There are not enough good leaders, not enough men with the capacity to establish discipline, to build morale, and integrate groups of men into efficient fighting machines, machines which work with little friction and stand up without breaking under the strain of combat. Now, what I love about this sentence or this whole opening here,

you get the feeling that this is going to start talking about authoritarian leadership, right? Hey, we need someone that's going to put discipline. Establish discipline turn people into machines that's what it's literally saying right that's used even as I'm reading I'm like damn this is gonna be some big Trope into authoritarian leadership which I know is wrong So I keep reading it says through training and discipline the army prepares its men to carry out its ultimate missions under command and according to plan That is the military scheme plans can be executed by command only because there's discipline most persons think that commands are enforced by authority.

But the relationship between leaders and their men is not nearly so simple. So there we go. We get saved almost immediately. A command to be effective requires not only discipline but also morale, understanding, and motivation.

A command is not merely some words which act like a match to a fuse or a firing pin on a bullet. Command. Effective command means that the men who receive it, understand it, trust it. and obey having been trained by leaders to understand to trust and obey leaders have to do much more than issue orders they must teach they must inspire confidence in themselves they must motivate action

which will be carried out in spite of confusion and fear only by long careful training can men learn to respond immediately and correctly to oral and written orders and oral commands and only by long careful training can men be trained to assume responsibilities of giving the orders and commands now we're getting close there you know it still talks a lot about obedience and following commands and again you're going to see that even though it's saying that it starts to shed light it starts to indicate that that's not really what it's about command is like a motor nervous system for the army and the navy and by the way they keep they keep using just the army and the navy that's because the Navy is of the Marine Corps apartment of the Navy and at this time the Air Force was the Army Air

Corps so that's why they just keep start talking about the Army and the Navy as the nervous system carries action all the way down from the brain through the lower nerve centers to the muscles so command proceeds from the Commander-in-Chief through the secession of commanding officers down to the soldiers and sailors who finally execute the actions since successful command depends on good leadership is equally true that leadership also goes all the way down through the line through the CEOs and NCOs, every man from the corporal up is a leader and all the other men are least potential corporals.

Followship is important too. And what it leaves out in that whole section right there is that leadership is not just down. Leadership is up too, which means I have to take input from the people on the front lines. I have to know what's happening. I have to understand what's working. They have to be able to pass that information back to me like the central nervous system.

Let's face it, how much of your nerves are outgoing from your brain? Quite a lot of them are, but what about when you touch a hot stove? What about when you get cold? What about when you feel pain because you're getting arm locked, right? Those things are incoming nerves. What about when it's light out? Those things are incoming. So this is like talking about, oh, this is only talking about one way that the nerves

go. The reality, they go both directions. And the more, going back to like the free fall example, the more sensitive you are to how these actions that you're commanding, what reactions those things cause is the better you're going to be able to lead. So we're going to a little bit, you know, I think they kind of have ideas of what they're trying to say, but I don't think they're already there. I don't think they're fully developed. I think they miss some of these important links here. And that's a actually, Huge point and especially that an out that comparison that analogy right the in the nervous system you know where you're like hey You know your nervous system sure you're sending signals sure but you're getting inputs but and when you think about it technically you're probably getting just as many like literally not like one to one yep as many signals back as you are sending out because like every step you take yep you land on like if you land on something soft hard slippery like that's all in

input coming back yeah even when I contract my arm on a curl, when I get to the top, it has to tell me that I made it to the top and now I need to stop. The whole deal. Everything. Yeah.

And so leadership is like a central nervous system, but the central nervous system goes more than just one way. Yeah. And that's, even like, we'll bring it down kind of to the ground level in a way, where like let's say your relationship with your friend or your wife will say,

you know how they say? And of course, this is nothing new where it's like communication is key or whatever. When you think about it, that's not just some trope, some thing that you say sound good or whatever it's true like the more that you what you put out you listen back it's like you go back and forth back and forth brother the problem solving capability that can be developed through

that kind of like honest open communication back forth back and forth um and thinking about in terms of of that just what you said where the nervous system is sending signals and it's receiving signals as well equally as important yes totally totally and that's why if you have let's say in this case in life and they don't talk there something comes up and they don't talk about it well yeah and now guess what it gets worse and it festers and now they have a real problem maybe they end up getting divorced now you might say well yeah but you might argue about it hold on not if i'm talking to my wife and i actually listen to what she's saying exactly that's where that's where everything falls bar she's talking me but i'm not listening and i'm just yelling back at her and now we're yelling at

each other now we have a problem we're not absorbing the information that's coming back in our direction. Yeah. And it's especially when you think of it in terms of the maximum amount of effective communication that you can possibly send and receive, right? Where even the smallest of problems that come up, if one guy explains where, or one person explains where they were coming from and maybe what expectations they had or whatever, then the other person just explains, this is before any fight because there's no reason to fire it right now. It's a teeny tiny problem. And then they say their part, open it honestly, because they're not hostile at this point. They're like, well, I felt this.

And this person's listening to that as they're, you know. So now this person understands. This person understands completely. Just understands. Like, okay, I see that? I understand. And it makes sense, you know, kind of thing. But let's say, let's say one person, bees quiet and just whatever, doesn't say anything, whatever.

And that happens. Now we have this little problem that's so easily solvable. Look, little things are easy to understand typically. But now you got a little thing that turned into, you think it's a big, it feels like a big thing, but this is kind of really what it is. It's a bunch of little things that equal a big thing. And they're festering. Festering.

And it takes on this life of its own. Now when this person blows up because of all these little things, which now equals one huge, huge thing, they're going to blow up. And now it's kind of inaccurate. You know, it's not because it took one thing to cause that blow up. Right. So now you're like, okay, all those little things could easily have been solved over time.

But now you've got to deal with them all at once, not to mention the new attitude that from the other person's standpoint, because they don't have information. They didn't, you know, they didn't get it. Seems like real unnecessary, real mean, real this, real that, you know. So now you have that huge problem. Didn't have to be like that. Nope.

Nope. Both directions. Both directions. That communication's got to go. Going on here, followership is important too. All leaders as well as the privates have to be led by leaders, but the dearth of followers is not so great as the dearth of leaders. Nevertheless, followership is also an art and has got to be trained.

The development of morale in a unit is largely the training of followers. When you, now see, when I first saw that, I was like, oh, they're going to talk about how a leader has to be a follower too. They didn't get there. They didn't say that. They just talk about, hey, people got to follow. You got to train them to follow. Don't really love that. When you come right down to the bottom of the matter, leadership and followership are complimentary.

Now we get a little bit more. The men with good morale accept leadership and make it effective. The leader on the other hand has not only to give effective direction to morale, but he is is also the most potent influence in building up morale. He asked to both build it and use it. What then may we ask is leadership and what is followership? Little section here, leading and being led, accepting leadership is easy and natural for most Americans.

Okay. We're not 100% sure on that one. By the way, I was gonna say a little different now, no, this is America. And these Americans that we're talking to, like these are the same Americans that, you know, this is the revolutionary war.

Americans said we're not paying an extra two cents for tea. Screw you. We'll fight. We'll give up everything and just fight for our freedom. So accepting leadership is easy and natural for most Americans. Now he says this, or the book says this. That is because they've been taught from early childhood

to obey commands and to accede to requests. If you should stop a stranger on the street, point to the top of building and say to him, look, the chances are that he will stop and look. That's pretty accurate. This is especially true if you say it in a voice of command with a matter of authority, in a manner of authority. Such immediate, unquestioned acceptance of command is called suggestion.

A great deal of leadership depends on suggestion. And then it goes into this thing, which I'm not going to go through because it starts talking about the extreme form of suggestion is hypnosis. And I think we'd have to do like a whole thing because I need to get some kind of a professional hypnotist or something because I don't understand it very well seems weird to me like you can tell me I'm gonna act like a chicken or whatever and then I actually act like it have you ever been hypnotized no I've been to a hypnotism show I've been a show I've been the subject actually I was sorry I wasn't subject I was assisting with the but it's like real right okay so

there's varying levels of like the whole gig the whole deal where on a this is from what I understand for on a scientific level like the real deal that certain people is a spectrum of people that are what's called suggestible suggestible okay yeah so you get highly suggestible people you can hypnotize them where they can act like a chicken or they'll feel actual feelings pain whatever itchiness or whatever and then there's people who like it just doesn't affect them so that's what it kind of says too and then it gets into this here it says the problem of leadership is the problem of social ascendance and submission. If we use these words in their technical senses,

in every social relation between two people, there has to be a certain amount of adjustment. The most natural adjustment is for one person to assume leadership and the other followership. There are many different degrees of ascendance and submission in different people and even in the same person in different situations. Take people as you find them. This is a very interesting idea. Basically, you know, what I say a lot is subordinate your ego. That's what he's talking about here. Like, well, that's what they're talking about here.

Submission is like, I'm going to subordinate my ego and listen to echo. But they also have a different thing, which is ascendance, which is I'm going to rise up and you will subordinate your ego to me. That sounds real harsh when I say it. But as we get in, it's an important thing that we should be able to do. I think this is going to be accurate. You'll see as we read through it. Take people as you find them, and some are much more ready to lead than others,

more ready to assert themselves, to suggest to others what they should do. It is an interesting fact, however, and a good omen for the need of the armed forces, that submissive persons can more readily learn to be ascendant than ascendant persons can learn to be submissive. At least that's true in America. Both of these traits, of course, have great military. So if I'm an ascendant type personality, it's harder for me to be submissive. If you're a submissive type personality, it's easier to teach you, hey, you can be ascendant too. An ascendant means essentially like being able to step up.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. Ascendant means I'm going to step up. But as we talk about all the time, if I lack humility, then I'm like, I'm not going to listen to Echo. That's exactly what they're. Look, I'll lead Echo. You want to put me in charge? I got this. But wait, you want me to work for Echo?

do not yeah so it's it's exactly but if you if you're in a submissive type personality and they're like hey echo you know we got to put you we want you running this program with Jocko you're like oh okay whereas if you had an ascendant type personality hey we want you to be under Jocko you oh that's a pretty good point that's interesting I never I don't know I never thought of that I never like that I wouldn't have known the answer like if that was a multiple choice question like oh what do you think is harder statistically or whatever

you know, whatever this is based on. What's harder? The guy to step up and lead, if he's a quiet, a submissive type or a Senate, I would not have known the answer. Yeah, it doesn't. Even from all the things that we've talked about in this podcast for the past seven years, you would have said, hey, oh, you got arrogant Fred over here. And you say, hey, arrogant Fred, I want you to, you know, work for Jessica.

Yeah. He's like, no way I'm doing that. Whereas if you take humble Fred and you're like, hey, Fred, we want you to lead this. we think you have the potential. He goes, okay, I can do that. Yeah, I would say this. That's a good question. And I thought about that.

But I just, I thought I'm kind of around people who know the game a lot right now. So they know to, you know, subordinate their ego. I don't know what the real world out there kind of looks like. It feels like each of them, like if one was harder than the other, no matter what the answer was. I would be like, okay, that makes sense. That makes sense. But to find out that answer, it's. Like, huh, that's interesting that that is distinctly the case.

Makes total sense to me. Accepting the role of being led is discipline. Interesting use. While ascendant men do not accept discipline easily, they can nevertheless learn to accept it. And fortunately, it is not so difficult for men to be submissive in new situations where they lack a feeling of competence. That makes total sense. So it's easier if I show up and I'm going to be.

on the computer programming team I'm not rolling in there like all right guys listen up No, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be this submissive not gonna be ascended in that situation I don't have any competence there then if ever they accept without difficulty Control by others who are competent by men whose right to leadership is clear to them so when I see someone that knows what they're doing that's why competence is very important times I talked to the troops at trade at to the to the guys and I rolled in there I had said like a little notebook and I had six bullet points I was gonna talk about and like we walked out and one of my buddies is like dude you freaking squared away I

was like what do you just rolled in there and just put out word and I was like I was like well thanks man he goes yeah like I see you just have your notebook he's ready and it's like that little thing that little thing is like oh he's confident you know like this is a little thing I go yeah I got some stuff to say here's I'm not saying to know everything, but hey, here's some points. Here's what I'm looking at. But whatever. He's like, you're so freaking squared away.

You know, and it's always nice, right? He was excited about it. So competence goes a long way. Yeah. I like the expression, put out word, by the way. Put out word. That's a big expression in the military. Now, here we get to some good stuff.

In America, the best leadership assumes the democratic character rather than the character of unilitary. lateral suggestion. The leader does not demand obedience without explanation if he is in a position to let his followers see the reason for his decision. So now we're getting into where you know that somebody was like, hey, hold on a second. Dude, that don't make sense. They're starting to put out some good word here.

Nor does he arbitrarily make demands upon the followers as to the details of the action. Rather, he invites initiative, encourages cooperation instead of sub-operation, sets a problem, exhibits means for its solution in as far as they are known to him and ask his subordinates to carry on from there so it's like hey here's the mission how do you guys want to get it done quite properly he accepts advice from his subordinates although he never transfers to them responsibility for his decisions perfect this is perfect we're nailing this that means if I'm in charge and I'm like echo how do you want to get this done and you say I want to

attack from the West and then the attack fails like oh this was your idea no hey it was my decision That's what we did. It was a failure. It's on me. That principle works excellent in industry, works excellently in industry as well as with the direction of children. And there is increasing evidence that it works in the Army and Navy too.

Well, thank you. Opposed to such democratic leadership is authoritarian leadership, where the leader commands arbitrarily and the follower under threat of punishment. If he fails, executes the command without participation in the decisions or the exercise of initiative and carrying them out. Boom. Authoritarian leadership sucks. There is no doubt that discipline can be enforced this way, as indeed it has been most

cruelly enforced by the Gestapo in German concentration camps. Their men came ultimately to accept the Gestapo's point of view about the propriety of their own submissiveness. This kind of discipline, however, secures obedience, but not achievement. For it is based on fear, not loyalty. The Germans do not use it in their arm. forces. And we've taught we've gone through German armed forces manuals that clearly point this out. In the army, they expect leaders to encourage the soldiers to participate in solving problems

to use initiative in their accomplishment of their missions. To a certain degree, the German officer is asked to fraternize with his men in order to maintain morale and initiative in them, even though he must at no time break down their sense of his superiority and responsibility, nor their reliance on him for the ultimate decisions. So they definitely recognized in writing this, that this authoritarian thing, that this imposed discipline was not the deal.

It's not good. Did he say they encourage fraternization? Yeah, like, hey, you've got to get to know your people. You got to let them come up with initiative. You've got to let them come up with problem solving. He says to a certain degree that German officers asked to frattenize, with his men in order to maintain morale and initiative in them.

That's what we're doing. So the good soldier or sailor accepts leadership in part by discipline. This means that the relation of the ascendance of the leader and the submission of the followers established that instantaneous obedience is thus always obtained even when the reasons for such obedience cannot be disclosed immediately. So look, you and I have a relationship and we're working together and most of the time I'm telling you what's going on, but then all of a sudden I'm like, Echo, you need to get to my house now. You're like, cool, I'll be there.

That's not the norm. It's a lot of leadership capital I'm spending. Like, if I just text you, hey, come to my house now. Hey, meet me at the studio in 15 minutes. Like maybe I didn't have time to explain that we got a, you know, a news crew coming in and they want to meet with you or whatever. I didn't have time to tell you all that. It's going to cost me some leadership capital.

That's not the optimal way to do it. The follower must have habits of attention and obedience. These habits must, moreover, be firmly rooted in his nervous system. They must have they must become second nature to him. How are such habits formed by motivation and practice by practice? This is a rough way to do this by practice. You teach a dog to salivate when a dinner bell is rung for him provided he really wants food. You simply always ring the bell before you give him food at first the bell means nothing to him and his saliva does not begin to flow until he sees food

But after many repetitions this is the Pavlov's dog thing that new relationship will not keep for life but it will continue as long as the bell actually leads to what he expects so as long as you continue to give him food after ring the bell. So it's basically saying like a little bit of Pavlovian training for your dogs. Classical condition. E dogs. Classical conditioning. Discipline that arises through drill and practice comes about in the same manner through the building of habits.

And it goes into this pretty interesting thing. You know, you see in the movies a lot when the military command is giving a tangent, right? You heard that, right? Yeah, no doubt about it. It just talks about how that is this fundamental thing that you learn. and it's basic to discipline because when that happens,

like the leader's going to say something. It's a basic form of attention. And what happens is eventually you get to a point where that's not even being said anymore, but when the leader walks in, people are quiet, they're like waiting for the word. Yeah.

So I've heard the expression 10 hot, I think they say. Just a modified version of it. Okay, got it. But I got to say that when I got to filthy one, I don't know what? where this came from, but it's awesome. In the SEAL teams, you don't say attention on deck,

which is what you say when the commanding officer comes on a ship. Okay. They just, they'd say on your feet. And then eventually it just became feet. So like the commanding officer, we'd be like feet and everyone just stand up. Pretty cool. That is cool. Pretty cool.

Your feet. Yeah. So discipline is calculated to ensure this preliminary attention by placing certain restrictions on behavior whenever an officer is present and appears to be on the scene. When the habit has become second nature, then it is part of the soldiers or sailors standard equipment. It can be taken for granted and be presumed when active thought needs to be given to something less routine. So this is just like something you learn. When the boss shows up, you're going to be quiet.

And then it goes through this. Again and again, military success turns out to depend on good leadership. No kidding. No wonder leadership is considered important when good leaders are so hard to find and takes a long, to train. Another thing which the follower contributes to the success of the leadership is his pride. A man who is praised can be more easily led than one who is blamed. When the leader criticizes, he will usually speak impersonally condemning poor work, not the man, leaving the man's pride untouched, letting pride work to make him do better job next time. The leader therefore tries to develop each man's belief in his own indispensality in the unit as he can do in the course of training. by making special assignments to particular men. This is that whole thing I wrote about leadership strategy and tactics where I told all my guys they were the most important person in the platoon.

And they were. It's not a lie. When there's a freaking wounded guy, the corpsman's most important. When we need fire support, the radio man's most important. When we're on patrol, the point man's most important. We get a gunfight machine gunner is most important. I'm telling them all that they're most important guy in the platoon. We get into the attributes of leadership.

And this is where they start to recover a little bit or at least go first. and more positively. There have been studies of leadership in civilian life among children's group and in industry. In these studies, the authoritarian attitude of the leader has been contrasted with the democratic attitude. Authoritarian leaders have been retrained

as democratic leaders with great success and greatly improved results in the effect of their leadership. Boom, I should just end the podcast right there. Authoritarian leadership doesn't work. And he gives some really good examples. It gives one about a foreman dealing with some union folks. Here it says this.

In a study of garment workers in a southern factory, the foreman had the job of training beginners. These foremen received eight hours of training from a psychologist in methods of increasing personal contact with the workers and have changing their attitude toward their men from an aggressive, high-pressure authoritarianism to a friendly and encouraging leadership. In this relation, the worker came to feel that the foreman was his friend.

friend and was working for him as well as for the management. The result of this democratic relationship was a definite increase in morale as well as an increase in productivity. Presently beginners were able to learn in one week which had previously taken five. This experiment shows that important changes in the ability to exercise leadership can be procured by even a little training of leaders. Just teaching people to be cool, good leadership never creates slaves. It establishes the feeling of responsibility and initiative in those who are led.

See, this is nailing it now. So you probably had a couple different people in the room. There was that one freaking jackass that was like, you, people need to just listen to me. If I'm outranking them, they should just lock it up and do what I say. There was an asshole like that in the room when they were writing this stuff. But luckily, the good leaders were able to put these sentences into these paragraphs in here. Out of such attitudes come the best morale, the quickest learning,

the most effective action. A subordinate does not need to feel inferior when his superior makes him feel that he's contributing voluntarily to the success of a common enterprise. In fact, the leader himself succeeds only when he assumes the role of commanding servant to his men

and to the whole military enterprise. So that idea of servant leadership, and I forget who wrote a book about it, but there's a big popular book, servant leadership. Here we are in 1945. the commanding servant and we covered a podcast on serve to lead about the British leadership methodologies same thing this is not a new idea when you're in

charge you're not in charge you're a servant to your men what makes a good leader then this is I was a little nervous says number one authority the leader starts out with authority the military and naval systems give it to him his uniform it to him. Authority is essential to discipline. It forms the background of all leadership. You're like, oh, damn, this is not what Jocko talks about. It's definitely not what I believe in. And then it says, yet, most of the power that the leader needs in order to lead well is not given to him. He wins it for himself. He must win the respect and loyalty of his men so that they trust his judgment. He must lead, not drive them. He must build up their morale. Such powers

depend on his own attributes, not on anything that goes ready-made with his rank. So they took back everything they said. Personal characteristics and attitudes. Good leader must be competent, which I pointed out a little earlier. He must know his stuff. Industry must work hard. Right? The men must feel that the leader shares the hardships with them.

The leader must be decisive, confidence. It must have a decisive, confident manner. The leader must always be ready to accept responsibility. Yeah, we're talking about extreme ownership. Soldiers and sailors are ready to be commanded, but they have to know what it is. They have to do. The leader has to decide this.

Not all the decisions have been made quickly, have to be made quickly. Often he can ponder the best course of action. He can take advice, even from subordinates, but he must keep for himself all responsibility for his judgment. he cannot shift that to others. Often he has to make a decision, either after consideration and advice

or immediately an emergency, on insufficient evidence. He must learn, therefore, that good judgment is not tested by its success. Often the best judgment on evidence at hand leads to action that fails when a different judgment might have succeeded. The leader must keep reminding himself

of this truth, nor must he blame himself when the best possible judgment under the circumstances proves to have been the wrong one. This is why I wrote a book called Leadership Strategy and Tactics and talked about the iterative decision-making process

because if you don't have all the information, make a small decision and be ready to make adjustments. That's the move. Very seldom do you have to figure everything out in one shot and just make the call. You don't normally need to do that. You can make a little call. And you can make adjustments.

Closely related to acceptance of responsibility is self-possession. The leader must be a man who can keep his head in emergencies. He must be able to control fear in his men, the gnawing fear that grows out of inaction in the presence of danger.

Can he joke when he himself is frightened? He must be able to control frenzy, the wild, pointless, inefficient, and often foolhardy action that may take hold of panicky men. He must be able to keep his head to let his sense of responsibility put him above fear and panic,

or at least must not show fear that fear grips him. Some men find they have this self-possession when they meet in emergencies. Some acquire it through training and handling emergencies and repeated experience with confusion and danger. There are doubtless many who cannot learn it and they should be chosen, not be chosen to lead. So there you go. You have a little limiting capacity. You freak out all the time. Bro, you shouldn't freak out.

You should train to not freak out. You should train to not freak out with everything that you do. when you're driving, when your printer breaks, when your kids do something stupid, when you do something stupid, like you should train and not freak out. You shouldn't use freak out words. You shouldn't use words that are freaked out.

What's a freak out word? Catastrophic. Catastrophic. That's a freak out word. That is a freak out word, isn't it? Like failure. Yeah. Like those kind of words?

Yeah. I don't say those kind of words. You know what would have to be happening for me to say something it's catastrophic. What? Burning fire in the skies with metal aliens attacking us. Yeah. And even then, I'd be kind of fired up.

There's no reason to say it. It seems like, I don't know. Look, my catastrophic scenario experience is very limited. Very little. Pretty much zero. But even with my imagination, I'm thinking, hey, in a catastrophic situation, Situation aliens what have you can I imagine jocco saying this is catastrophic No I'm really yeah yeah some catastrophic language I mean Jamie has told me some things

Where it's like gonna be a bad day for like a bad situation like maybe there's money and you know I've always okay Roger that you know that my Roger that's the best The best term to use oh yeah yeah in those in catastrophic situations but there's a you're just not gonna be remember we had a a a question on the underground, the guy said he had a catastrophic injury. Oh, yeah. And my immediate thought was like, oh, this guy's paralyzed from the neck down. This guy's lost a couple limbs. It turned out, what did he have? Like a broken finger or something?

No, well, mine was a torn by. Yours was yours. It was a peck, it was a peck, I think. If I'm not mistaken. Maybe it was a torn peck. But, you know, for him, it was catastrophic. And as soon as I was like, oh, you got a torn peck. Like, you can get surgery and get that fix and carry on with the rest of your life.

Like, hey, bro, that's not catastrophic. It seems catastrophic. in your head. Go tell that to freaking Rob Jones. And he's like, what are you talking about catastrophic? Right? I have no legs.

And I'm over here running 31 marathons. What? Like, what's your problem? Yeah. So the deal, I mean, okay,

so what did you say it? You said, don't use what kind of language? Don't use panic. Panic. Panic language. It just sounds bad. Yeah.

So catastrophic actually technically doesn't necessarily have to be a panic language, but that's a example of something you would use in in panic language no I'm saying don't use that language unless you can verifiably say that something is catastrophic yeah like if you were in charge of Silicon Valley Bank right now yeah you'd be like we've had a catastrophic

situation we're free we just win BK yeah right like but even that I mean I'm assuming if you said it the way you just said it that's technically not panic language you're just stating kind of a fact okay but on whatever day it was and you're talking to the rest of your executive team and you're like, hey, this is a catastrophic situation. We've got to run. There's a run on our bank right now, and we are not going to, we need to salvage what we can

because we're going down. That would be a situation where you'd say, yep, this is a catastrophic situation. You know, FTX, the crypto guy, right? That guy, I don't know what he was thinking because he just seems like he's out of touch with reality. Sam Bankman Fried Right?

That's his name See he didn't he I don't think he actually recognized I don't know I'd have to dig more into the case Right But he just seemed like he just was lost Yeah And just super aloof and arrogant

And thinking you know when people think they're super smart Yes And they think they can out smart people I think he's been like that for his whole life And he's been building upon that And he's been getting away with it for a long time So I think this was just another little thing that he was going to scam his way out of in his mind.

So he might not have even recognized it was catastrophic. Yeah. Yeah. Seems like that could be the case. Yeah. I mean, he didn't really recognize that he was a dork. No.

No. But it makes sense, though. I mean, back to the original point where it's like, hey, don't use, was it panic language? Bro,

don't do that. Yeah. So it's less about necessarily the actual words, but like under panicky situations, there's a bunch of words that, hey, man, Yes, no, it is about the actual words, though. Like, it is about, it's about the words.

It's about the behavior. That behavior, those words are panicked behavior. Right? Yeah. If you start using words like that, then it's a problem. And by the way, now people are, now it turns into the boy that cried wolf, right? Yeah. Where when something really bad does happen, like, it's, no one really is paying attention to you.

Because you've been saying that the sky is falling or saying that the wolf is attacking for the past for previous parts of your life. And now you say something's a real problem. And it's like, oh. Yeah. I mean, catastrophic is a, catastrophic is a, is an, to me is like, first of all, imminent. Yeah. Right.

Imminent situation. Because I can get out of all kinds of stuff, right? Yeah. You know, I'm going to get out. I'm going to figure something out. We're going to make maneuvers. That's what we do. We're going to figure things out.

What about the word critical? That's, that's a. stepstone, right? That's a stepstone towards catastrophic. Sure. Most, most cases not necessary. Right. Yeah. That's why I kind of thought of it because you're like, when you made the boy who cries, cries wolf analogy, that's true. That's, and actually, that's probably in my experience, which is almost none. The most common scenario of why this panicky or catastrophic type language can be so, um, like, Detrimental because you know how I think you just said it today where if everything is a in emergency

Then nothing's an emergency or something like that I'm I'm sure I've said that I'm certainly that's a very common Frays right yeah if if everything's an emergency nothing's an emergency if everything's a priority nothing's a priority Yeah so it's like stop if everything's special if everything's special nothing's special if everything's catastrophic nothing's catastrophic yeah the only thing it's catastrophic is your your leadership ability was to go it downhill So you got to be careful about this Right? You gotta be careful about this. Because then you end up, people just kind of shrug their shoulders and like, oh, Jocco's

running around like a chicken with his head cut off. Man, we used to have some leaders like in the SEAL teams where you, they would panic about stuff, you know? Dumb stuff and they're freaking out and you're like, dude, like no one is listening to you right now. Stop. Stop. Stop.

Just try and be relaxed. Why and self-possess the leader is a man who can keep his head on in emergencies? If you can't keep your head on when there's like a DV distinguished visitor showing up, like in the SEAL teams, like a DV might be showing up. That's the expression. Yep, a DV like a distinguished visitor. So it might be a four-star general, might be a three-star admiral, might be a member of Congress, might be the vice president of the United States.

DV. DV showing up. And what do you do? Freak out. lose your mind. It's like, dude, what is wrong with you? And by the way, there's people that DV is like, Captain Insanel comes out, right? Yeah.

Whereas, you know, just like, oh, we got a message from the CEO. He wants this. Like, dude, hey, man, commanding officer wants something. Let's just get it for him. We don't know if you freak out. What are we doing? So let's maintain self-possession. I don't you, I've never used this expression before, self-possession, but I like it.

Yeah. leader must have integrity and let his men see that he has it sincerity builds morale hypocrisy gets found out and destroys morale the leader must play no favorites and let his men see that he plays none men of the armed forces want leaders who do not save the dirty work for fellows they don't like um leader must work as hard as the men then that's in leadership strategy and tactics finally the leader must have teaching ability this is a very interesting one So what I don't I don't say maybe need to add it to the list the leader must have teaching ability

soldiers and sailors have to learn in order to succeed they know this and want a man who can teach them what to do and teach them to do it well it's a very good point that I like the leader's relations to his men of course and this is again where we get back into like I'm like thank you you know you could see that there are some different people in the rooms you know Colonel Pogue is in there with Colonel Hackworth. And Colonel Pog's putting out some bad word. But then Colonel Hackworth comes in and says, of course, all of the leader's personal qualities

have to do with his relations to his men. For leadership is that relationship. The leader must know his men, understand them, be loyal to them, and proud of them, must work with them and for them. There are, however, many other special rules, help in their relationship and then it goes into using personal recognition, using praise, doing good critical, you know, how to give criticism properly. They talk a lot about giving

criticism to the job, not the man. So if Echo's video is substandard, I don't say Echo, you messed up this video. I say, hey, Echo, I think this video could be better. I'm not attacking you. I'm attacking the video. It's a good, good little point to remember. Uh, the met, and this is another where we, you know, Colonel, Colonel Hackworth, Colonel Combat will say, Because Hackworth wasn't in the Army yet in 1945. He was just getting in the Army in 1945, I believe, maybe 1946. So Colonel Combat versus Colonel Pogue, Colonel Combat says the men need to know the reasons for what they do,

whenever the leader knows the reasons himself and such knowledge is consistent with military requirements. The need in maneuvers to know what it's all about, sorry, they need in maneuvers to know what it's all about. So people are supposed to know what's going on. They are not machines. Even though this whole book start off saying men are machines, they are not machines. They can think too and like to know that their leader believes they can think.

Soldiers and sailors are interested in a long time strategy as well as immediate objectives. Many are concerned with the remote ideology of the war. All are vitally concerned with today's problems. These principles hold both in training and in combat. So yes, freaking men are supposed to know what's going on. Military leaders should train his men to expect surprises and reverses. Good, good call. The leader should have in mind the effects of mental strain upon his men.

He should encourage his men in all devices that will help them to stand up mentally in combat. He should encourage religious faith and those who already use it. He may even good naturally encourage superstition by not poking fun at it. And those men who find security from danger in that fashion, you got that lucky rabbit's foot. Cool. It is especially important that the leader should teach his men the right attitude toward death. He must speak to them as if the important thing were to live for the day. He must keep telling them that death itself matters much less than how you die.

If you die, let your death count for something. He must teach respect for the dead. When affection for a comrade continues after death, a soldier fears his own death less. I was trying to think, how does this relate to, like, business? Failure. What's your attitude towards failure? Like if you're a sales guy and I'm like, hey, dude, you go out there, go hard. You get some doors slammed in your face right on.

You know what I mean? Like that kind of attitude towards failure. In times of danger or fear, the leader must plan activity. We know that already from that other chapter. Offense is the best defense in the realm of the mind as well as, grand strategy the leader should try and give his men the attitude of perpetual offense a good leader adapts his commands to his subordinates he needs to have constantly in mind that particular men whose action he's he requires the principal holds for a for the corporal and his squad for

the colonel and his staff a few succinct words of command will do for one man more elaborate explanation is needed for another so you have to talk to people differently And I might have to address Echo in a different way than I talked to Laif because Echo might not care what the details are and Laif needs to know some details of what's going on and a good leader keeps his immediate subordinates from feeling isolated from him. He keeps contact, be he corporal or colonel. His men depend on him and must know that he has not forgotten them and their mission. He makes himself available to listen to their personal problems and advises them to the best of his ability. So know your men. And then it goes into the leader as a symbol. Although the leader takes account of all these personal relationships between him and his men and uses them as motives in building morale and accomplishing missions, he is to men, he is to his men in the last analysis, a symbol rather than another man. He represents to them the authority to which they are willing if they have good morale to admit, to submit.

Any final admonition to a leader should be, do not let your men down. If a man complains, do not tell him you don't like the service any more than he does. Such remarks destroy the man's confidence in his leader and discourage him from striving for advancement. The leader's rights to personal satisfaction are less than his men's. So your right to personal satisfaction as a leader is less than your men's. For the men depend on him to be what they think their leader should be. They want to be proud of him and they may have to accept, and he may have to be. accept loneliness and many other discomforts in order to give them what they have a right to

demand of him. He must find his satisfaction in his own pride as a successful leader. So there's the qualities of a leader. This section is called selection of leaders. It has been said that there can be no rigid system of selection of leaders because good leaders differ so much from each other in personality that there would be, that there would seem to be many different patterns of personality, each of which would succeed. is a leader. Such a statement means, however, little more than that a few qualities are essential

and the best leaders are still not perfect. So cool. Very hard to judge who's going to be a good leader. It must also be remembered that qualities of good leaders will vary to some extent with the character of the men to be led and the nature of the job. A good leader of college students or a good labor leader might not fit the military requirements. A good leader of a unit of one army's in one of the Army Service Corps would not necessarily be a good leader of combat troops. Honestly, I kind of disagree with that. I kind of disagree.

I think that if someone truly is a very good leader, then they will be adaptable. The problem is there's very few, very good leaders. So, for instance, and so I guess I do agree with it. I said I didn't agree with it, but I do. You know, some companies, while they're in the startup phase, they need that cowboy guy

that's making things happen, making deals. But then by the time it's time to go public, they need to get rid of that guy. He's a freaking, he's a liability. Right? This happens. Uber. That's what happened with Uber.

You had the leader of Uber, and he was kind of like a cowboy making things happen, making deals, like doing things that were, you know, illegal outside, but he was making it happen. But by the time they were going public, they were like, hey, dude, you got to go. Right?

But the problem is that he, didn't adapt properly. He didn't say okay I see I got to play a different game now. Yeah. Why is that because like the this the state the current state whatever that state maybe or whatever that current might mean like the the company or the group or the organization is gonna behave in different ways throughout different phases kind of a thing. I mean especially the leader has to lead in a different way. Like when you got a startup when you start Uber or whatever you got like 17 people that work. for you know them all you can like give them direct guidance every single day yeah when

you have a thousand people all of a sudden's like hey you need to be a much more much more versed well versed in decentralized command you need to give you need to give more simple clear concise direction like all those things come to play you need to utilize the laws of combat more efficiently when you're in charge of seven people the laws of combat you can kind of get away with stuff you don't really need decentralized command you can give complex orders because you can straighten people out you can handle a bunch of priorities because you're not that big yet the the more people you lead and the bigger your operation the better you better get at the four laws of combat

leadership yeah and there's certain levels of for instance with the uber thing like professionalism yeah like you can't you can't be the same guy and if and if you're a really good leader that's why I say I disagree with it because if you're a really good leader you go okay time for me to be more professional time for me to wear a suit when I go to wall street meet with bankers or whatever instead of being like oh I don't wear a hoodie you know what I mean like that kind of thing yeah that makes sense you have to grow up even in a seal platoon like as I went up the ranks I had to adjust myself and be like I can't be doing that anymore yeah you know and sometimes I'd be like ooh I shouldn't have said that you know because when you're an E5 in the E5 mafia and somebody

screws up you're like hey you freaking jackass right but when you're the platoon commander and someone messes up and you say hey you freaking jackass it carries a lot more weight you made him look bad in front of everybody like it's about it's a problem you got to you got to become more mature yeah you know not even necessarily more mature but you got to mature as leader and the seal platoon yes that means you got to become more mature yeah yeah that makes sense actually even even like on a social level you can kind of almost feel that play itself out where you can be with you and your two best friends hanging out you can be swearing you can say offensive stuff or whatever but then what if you got you your two best friends maybe they're a neighbor you're

Maybe they you know and the group starts to get bigger. Oh your like your best friend's wives are over now. Yeah. And you're over there dropping F bombs like that's a problem. Exactly right. So yeah, you kind of got to narrow it down and that's a perfect way to put it. You got to be more mature where everyone will accept your the word you put out. It'll land on people the more people better. So ultimately you can have the correct influence on the correct amount of people, which is now bigger. Yep. That's the way it works. You got to grow. So a good leader. And just like in a seal of platoon, like in certain combat situations, you kind of want a guy that's a little bit more raw. But if that guy can then walk into brief the general and be squared away, that's what we're looking for. If he walks in there, he's like, hey, general, I'll tell you what's up. Like, oh, go record me talking to my platoon and then record me talking to the general. I'm the same person, but the language that I'm using is different. the even the physical sort of gesturing I'm going to use is different like you you're going to have to be able to play both those roles and I'm not saying like oh you walk in

front of the general and you turn into a totally different person and you're kissing ass or you are not you know if I'm saying to the boys hey we're to go freaking kill everybody and I walk into the general and say hey we're really want to are looking forward to winning the hearts of minds like that's a different message but if I say hey boys we're going to go and kill people and I tell the general hey listen We're going to be out there. We're going to eliminate the enemy wherever we find them. We're going to be on, you know, doing as much as we possibly can to interdict them.

I'm saying the same exact thing. Yeah, yeah. But I'm being professional. Yeah. So now moving on. In combat, the best you can hope for is a versatile leader who can adjust himself somewhat to different kinds of men. This is what I just said. No leader can be for perfection for all educated and uneducated men will need different qualities for the leaders.

Strong, athletic outspoken men and weak, sensitive. Quiet men, ideally should have different sorts of leaders to whom. Now, see, this is where I disagree. Like, if you're a good leader, you can talk to the, what do they call them? Strong, athletic, outspoken men. And you can also talk to the weak, sensitive, quiet men. And by the way, you're going to end up in a seal-upatoon with both those kinds. Maybe not weak.

But sensitive, quiet guys, for sure. The Germans have tried to test for initiative and responsibility by giving men actual military problems to solve in spite of inadequate resources. They want to see whether the men will give up, come back for health. or solve the problem in some special way. If you are given the materials to build a bridge across a stream and there is not enough materials, if the timbers are the wrong size or do not fit together, what will you do? You can cut down some trees to supplement the insufficient timbers or tie parts together when there are not enough spikes.

There are possibilities in such procedure, but leadership is something greater than ingenuity in meeting emergencies. So even that doesn't answer the question. And then it says this, the consequence of all this, that leadership can best be judged by actual performance under the conditions and with the kind of group in question. This is why I had the best job when I was running trade at because I got to put guys in the actual situation they were going to be in. And then you put them through judgment. It talks about how you judge people, how you would, select leaders. You'd have to use judges, put them in the actual scenario, the type that they were going to be in,

that the judges had to be competent. That's better to have multiple judges instead of just one. So it goes through that whole thing. And then we get into, after the selection of leaders, gets to training of leaders are leaders born or made obviously both a man who combines the intelligence and an ambition necessary for him to be a competent and resourceful leader with great interest in the welfare of his immediate associates has the first requisites of being a good leader our intelligence ambition and human interest inborn or learned it depends on how you define these terms and it goes to talk about some of the stuff we were talking about earlier the brightest

of men are not able to exercise their intelligence when they are over fatigued undernourished in want of oxygen fevered or drunk and they cannot make wise decisions if they are without experience in any given situation and it says most psychologists use the word intelligence to refer to the native or inborn capacity for learning and for adapting to the environment intelligence in this sense cannot be learned it is inherited but what a man does with this inherited intelligence the extent to which a man is ambitious or the extent to which he is interested in his fellows depends on how he was brought up and even upon his environment at the present time.

So you've got a certain level. This is exactly what I talk about, leadership strategy and tactics. You get a certain level of blessing. You got that certain level of natural gifts, natural talents in every category of being a leader. And then you've got to try and improve them. Certainly there are great differences in aptitude for leadership among men. as they enter the army or navy.

The question of whether these differences are the result of heredity or are the effects of early training and environment has no practical importance in the selection of men for training as officers. They don't even care. Leadership improves the experience. That's factual in most cases.

Because you could get negative experience and you can become a worse leader, right? Leadership can be learned, given some aptitude and enough motivation. That's totally true. Competence can be acquired with intelligence, motivation, and practice. That's true. Interest in other men can be increased by motivation.

That means that the man who wants to become a good leader can make his men a special object of study. Teaching ability and clarity and confidence of command follow along as soon as the would-be leader has his attention fixed on what his men are getting from him instead of what he thinks he is giving to them. Civilian studies on training leaders in industry and in dealing with children all show that it is possible to learn by voluntary effort to take the followers point of view and see from their angle and so to become more effective leaders. Boom. Who ya. Totally awesome statement.

You can learn how to take other people's perspective and you understand the perspective of the people that you're leading, you will do a better job. Even decisiveness can be learned. If the would-be leader cannot make up his mind quickly, let him make it up slowly taking advice. Then when he has made his decision, let him announce it decisively and let him stick to it. I have a big question mark next to that. Because if the leader makes a bad call, he shouldn't stick to it. But you can get better at making decisions.

I mean, when we put guys through trade at, put him through land warfare, you would see him be a disaster in the beginning and couldn't make decisions. and then they start to learn how to make decisions, then they'd be good at it. It's freaking awesome. That's how I know this stuff can be taught because I taught it. The would-be leader has best patterned himself on some skill leader whom he knows well and admires.

Yes, absolutely. He'll be surprised to find how many of the accomplished leaders' attributes he can copy. When he cannot copy the habits of thought, he may at least be able to imitate the manner and behavior of his model and inappropriate habits, though of thought may follow. later so you like basically act like that guy and then eventually hopefully you can become that guy our leaders board are made all leaders are made makes you think oh wait a second and then it says whether the aptitude upon which they build is

inborn or learned cannot be said not all grown men have it okay true but those that have what leadership takes even though they have never led can learn to lead yes i agree 100 percent here as everywhere else among military skills the two keys to the creation of successful ability must be employed selection and training select potential trainers and lead them there you go and we're to close this one out right now the kind of the closing chapter the use of psychology and war but it's kind of just a good way to sum up what we've talked about today psychology is the study of acting man of human thinking and behaving and of the underlying causes and conditions of man's thought and conduct.

Thus, it is concerned with perceiving, feeling, learning, remembering, thinking, and acting. And also with all of those social relations between men, how they feel about one another, and act towards one another. The armed forces are organized bodies of men to make military organizations efficient. You have, therefore, to know about the capacities and limitations. of men about differences among men and how one man can be best at one job while another is best at a different job and about the ability of men to have their abilities changed by training you have also to know about men's motives and their personalities about their adjustment in novel situations about how they learn to like to do what they have to do about how they how about how and why They break down when adjustment is impossible and you need to know about their social relations in leadership and followership in panic and accepting and spreading rumor All that is psychology which the military man needs and there you have it

Thinking about thinking about what we're thinking about what our boss is thinking about what our team is thinking that is psychology, which, yes, the military man needs, but I'll tell you what, all human beings interacting with other human beings, we all need more understanding. So there you go. Echo Charles. Yes, sir. Speaking of need.

Yep. We need to fuel ourselves. We do. We need to get fuel in ourselves. And that's why we have, jocco fuel. What do you got? I'm fueled up right now. Yeah, as a matter of fact.

I'm with you. So yes, Jocko Fuel. Okay, now did we shift a paradigm? Yes. Yeah. So, yeah. So if you talk about energy drinks, we shifted that. Energy drinks are no longer unhealthy.

Well, as far as we're concerned. Ours are not unhealthy. Not unhealthy. Actually, completely healthy. I gave one to a, we had a, we're doing some improvements on our house. All right. And the contractors came by. Super nice guy.

So I offered him one He was like oh man I like I like energy drink He looked at it. He said jaco Oh, I love Jocko I was like well the good news About this energy drink regardless how much you love Or don't love Jock That's the case may it may not be

This energy drink is good for you Yep It's him saying he was reading it Yeah he was down for the cause Yeah well that's good And I would say I'm kind of good for you too Like that guy that contractor Yeah

I think I'm actually pretty good for him too Yeah yeah the whole deal I'm not throwing anything negative out there for him No. He's not listening to me thinking, oh, I think I can skate on work. Yeah. He's not thinking, oh, it doesn't matter if I'm healthy. He's not thinking, oh, if I'm going to be running some other people on my team,

maybe I should be an authoritarian leader that barks orders. He's not saying to that. So I think I'm good for him and I think my drink is good for him. I think you're correct. It's not like he came over said he loves Jocko because you ran him into a ditch somewhere. There you go. So I'm saying you're obviously doing great work out here. I agree.

I agree. I appreciate it. I agree. Thank you. Nonetheless, look, no more unhealthy energy drinks. no more shabby tasting energy drinks boom got you all good all good for you good for performance mentally and physically

boom we got protein as well yeah ready to drink hey look we've been kind of not neglecting but we haven't been talking about the actual milk the clean great tasting the pow pow wow the pow wow see now you know all day now that you're a snowboarder yes sir you know now you know about that pow pow all day

so keep in mind that is still a massive massive option. But yes, if you're interested in maybe saving some time, having improved convenient scenario with that same good taste in. I'll be honest with you, man,

sometimes I just need to like something that I want to taste something sweet and I don't want to mix up a whole mulk and have it in the fridge, get that little RTD hitter. Oh, yeah. They're just on the rocks, as they say, like cold.

Yeah. Cold in the fridge, just ready to roll. Oh, yeah, ready to roll. The pow-pow. That's what it's called now. the moch if you get the milk powders henceforth only referred to as the milk pow-pow yep that's when you're in the mood to like really kind of elaborate on some gourmet

milk shakes which a there's a time for that trust me oh yeah boom perfect uh perfect amount of protein whatever you choose a perfect type of protein and it tastes super good so there you go to jocco fuel.com you can get all this you can get vitamin d3 you can enjoy warfare krill oil Super krill. Cold War. You can get the goods, man. Joccofuel.com. You can also get at Wawa.

You can get at the vitamin shop, military commissaries, Hanifur, dash stores in Maryland, Wake Fern, ShopRite, H.E.B., Meyer, we'd be rocking in those stores. Everybody that goes to H.E.B. and Meyer, thank you.

Thank you. You're just making winners. And, hey, if you go to these other stores, these other stores, especially the convenience stores, that's a battlefield. It's a battle. field in those convenience stores there's big giant corporations and you know who I'm talking about

they pay millions of dollars when they saw a threat as soon as they saw a threat as soon as they saw the market share disappearing oh it wasn't disappearing as soon as they saw fractions of their market share getting pulled they went on the offense and they got thunder on nuclear weapons called millions and millions and millions of dollars so when you roll into wah-wa go and clean the shelves go let them know what's up let them know that we're here and we don't care oh you moved us down a shelf take it out of eye level that's the kind of stuff they do oh for they do that kind of stuff it's a battlefield man but wawa is great they brought us in there but look they're running a business too so if you're going to wawa if you go into one of these convenience stores roll in there get some

Don't get tricked into buying the poison. You don't want to let that happen. So there you go. Everyone out there when you roll into these stores, we appreciate it. It makes our job easier and it allows us to further expand. You're helping the people that don't have this stuff available right now, right? California is rough, man. Convenience in California is rough.

There's a whole thing I'd have to talk through, but there's just a lot of disparate companies. out here. It's not like one unified, not like there's a unified chain. Like this is the one that even the ones that you might think of off the top of your head, a lot of those are owned by very small franchisees that only have one or two stores. And it's just we're working on it. Out here on the West Coast, we're working on it. But everyone that's in the Midwest, in Texas, that you're making it easier for everybody for us to get this. So thank you. Thank you for that support.

And the stuff is clean, man. And by the way, I forgot to tell you. I forgot to bring them, but we have milk cookies. Right. I, I just had back to back milk cookies before I came here. Back to back. And the first one, I just had it. And I was like, damn, bro.

So they're good to go. Yeah. They're good to go. I knew they were going to be good to go when Freya, my oldest daughter, she sent me a text, like, moat cookies. I hadn't had one yet. She's like, mold cookies. GTG.

G. G. TG. Go. So anyways, I had two before I came here. The first one, normal, dry, we'll say. The next one, I straight poured a glass of milk. There's a chocolate chip cookie, bro. I dipped it like I was drinking, like I was eating a freaking whatever, toll house.

I understand. Only toll house, you got downside. Oh, yeah. You're like, oh, can I have a toll house on some type two diabetes, please? Oh, can I? Yes. No. No.

My body said no. Yeah. Then you crack open. in that bowl cookie so good yeah so good and I put it I dipped it in milk like I was in the next level you know what do you have a I don't want to say like an out of body experience but when you're just when you're like you have a paradigm shift yeah you already brought this up so I'm allowed to say yes darky word yep at a paradigm shift where I was like wait a second I'm literally having a chocolate chip cookie right now

with milk you know by the way and I'm completely no downside. I'm getting stronger as I eat a chocolate chip cookie. That's a paradigm shift in the world, right? That's Nobel Prize. That's Nobel Prize, right? Yep, I can't refute that. Is it not?

Like, I'm eating a chocolate chip cookie with milk, and I'm getting stronger, smarter, faster, better, more healthy. Good for you. Good for you. Straight up. So is that not Nobel Prize? I don't know who runs that thing, right? Let's talk to them.

Yeah, let's at least get it. out there. See what up. See what up. I understand. And I feel the same exact way. And I'm with you with the milk thing. Like there's,

I think I'm to the point of my life, thankfully, where I don't have to. When I get home right now, I'm having milk and cookie. You're thinking about it right now. Milk and milk cookie. Well,

thankfully, you know, I don't have to enjoy cookies without milk right now. So milk is a necessary part of the cookie experience. So yes, malt cookie. Milk,

If you're lactose intolerant, but I get the lactose free. Yeah, you can do that. No problem. No problem. No problem. You're still on the path on that one. And yes, you get to enjoy your milking cookies. Yeah, it is.

It, I had a, it was a moment. Like to eat the first one and be like, wait a second. And then just break out. You know, he got the cups in your house that have like a wider mouth. Yep. Like, like a, they're bigger. Yeah, Sam Harris gave us some good ones. Did he?

Yeah, the waking up ones. They're big. Oh, yeah. All day. I know because I had. Literally the last milk I had was in one of those cups. Well, there you go. I broke out one of those, except for mine wasn't the Sam Harris one.

Mine said, get after it. I think you might know what the one I'm talking about. So there you go. Milk and milk cookies. You can order those. I think those are only right now at joccofield.com. So go get some of those. They're freaking outstanding.

And you can have a cookie and get stronger. And look, I'm sure someone's listening right now. That's part of the Nobel Prize thing. Let me know. Just let me know when, when you want me to show up. The team will bring the team in. Because look, I don't get all the credit, right?

No, of course. I get the credit. It's not me. No. It's the team. Sure. But as the face of the, you know, the cookie, maybe I get the Nobel Prize for it.

Sure. Nah, I'd pass it on to the troops. The troops are getting it, but someone deserves it. All right, cool. You're so humble. Also, origin, USA.com. If you need jeans, if you need boots, if you need a jiu-git-gee, which you do,

if you're not training jit-too, you should be. If you need hunt gear, go to origin USA.com and get some American made gear. That's what you want. You don't want to support communism. You don't want to support tyranny and oppression. You want to pay for slave labor. You don't want that to happen.

You want the highest quality. The quality is good, man. Clean right now. We're just getting better all the time. We're constantly looking and improving everything that we're doing. So origin usa.com get yourself some American made everything. It's interesting because there is this distinct difference and it seems obvious but maybe not from moment to moment. But when you get a pair of jeans or whatever, something that's made where the person who physically

made it, the person who designed it, the person who physically made it, like put it under the sewing machine and physically made it when they care about every single one that they make, like I care about this one. I'm not punching the clock. I'm not. surviving so I don't get whipped or whatever right you know I I care about this pair of jeans about about this boot like man if I if I even mess up that one stitch I care about that let me redo that one so it's perfect the the jeans that you get they're gonna be way different you know we talked the little I kind of breezed over it but like the superstition thing that he talked about like hey if you've got people that are

superstition don't make fun of it support it well there's some kind of like what's the reality behind that what is what is the reality behind there's a little bit of a of a curse when you get a when you get a pair of jeans from a sweatshop yeah that people were were were harmed that the environment was harmed to make you look you may not feel that but you might and now if you put on a pair of origin jeans you put those on and you know that those things were made by freedom right and all of a sudden you know you've done something positive for the universe and the universe probably knows that too you sure does

There you go, man. Get that karma. Good karma. Right? Is that a thing? Yeah, it's a thing. I think it is. Yeah. Well, yeah, if I, if I don't know you and I give you and I'm in a bad mood and I give you the stink eye, intuitively, the chance of you giving me the stink eye back pretty high. So it works in a nutshell. I always think of it from like a leadership perspective. I don't doubt that at all. Like, oh, you go around treating people bad? Karma is gonna come back and get you. Yeah. You go around treating the environment bad, karma's gonna come back. You go around treating your employees bad, karma's gonna come back and get you. That's what's gonna happen.

My dad had a saying, he said, he wouldn't say it all the time, but every once in a while he'd say, he would say bad things happen to bad people. So, and usually under these circumstances, when you just, you know, like, look, we all have that little evil man inside of us, even as little kids where it's like,

hey, you wanna get over, or you wanna like, it takes a lot of work, to exercise the high road or something like this, right? So, you know, you're going to do that, you know, you're going to seek revenge or you're going to, you know, bully your little brother, as a case may be. And sometimes you got to get reminded that, hey, like, that that short-term gratification from your little evil deed that you think is like harmless or whatever in the grand scheme of things, here's what the grand scheme of things says.

Bad things happen to bad people and just don't forget that. BC has spoken. Put an outward, as we might say. Nonetheless, yes, it's true. It's a very, it's a thing for sure. Also, Jocco's store, you're going to represent. We're all on this path together. You know, varying places in the world, whatever, but we're on the same path.

Varying versions of the path, varying speeds on the path, but we're all on the path. If you want to represent on this path, it's where you can get your shirts and hoodies and hats and whatnot. Chaco store. There's a new shirt you've been telling me about for the short locker. Shirt locker, yes. Yeah. Should I reveal it? Yeah, reveal.

Okay, so it is a shirt. Here's a story behind. Typically, all the shirts from the show. Okay, there's a shirt locker. That's the subscription scenario. You get a new shirt every month. So here's the thing. And I usually just say, okay, the designs are whatever I say about the designs.

They're cool. But what I don't always say is all designs have a story behind them, all of them, every single one. We call them layers. This one, this particular shirt is a shirt. It's pretty simple. It has the, you know, the logo, the, you know, the representative stuff. But on the bottom of the front, upside down, there's a passage, if you will, written, says, what are you doing right now? So it's upside down the bottom of your shirt.

So if you're sitting down especially and you're looking around and you look down, it's going to, that message is going to be loud and clear just for you. What are you doing right now? Especially if you're sitting down. Sounds like you're watching Netflix. Yeah, sitting down somewhere. Exactly. So just a little reminder. Some of us, we like that prompt.

You know, it helps. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There you go. But yeah, yeah, if you want to check all this stuff out, you like something, get something. It's on jaco store.com. There you go. Subscribe to the podcast. Subscribe to jaco underground.com.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel. Get psychological warfare. Check out Origin USA's YouTube channels. Check out JagoFuel's YouTube channel. YouTube channels going on. Flipsidecanvus.com. Dakota Meyer making cool stuff to hang on your wall. I've written a bunch of books.

A novel, final spin. A bunch of leadership books. A bunch of kids books. Six kids. Kids books. Do you know that? Six children's books more coming. Mikey and the Dragons all the way the warrior kid books there you go about face by Hackworth check that book out I wrote the forward to the new version of it which is an honor to be able to do that and then of course extreme ownership and the dichotomy leadership wrote with Laf Babin Leif Babin and I also have a leadership consultancy we saw problems through leadership go to eslamfront.com for details if you want to to come and help your business. If you want to come to one of our live events, check that out. We also have an online training platform.

The demand signal for leadership training is so high, we couldn't meet it. So we made a online training academy for leadership and life. Go to extremeownership.com. If you want to take ownership of your life, if you want to take ownership of your world, if you want to take ownership of your business, we will teach you. Extremeownership.com. Also, if you want to help service members active and retire, You want to help their families?

You want to help Gold Star families? Check on Mama Lee. Mark Lee's mom, Mom, Mama Lee. She's got a charity organization. It does unbelievable work. Go to America's mighty warriors.org if you want to donate or you want to get involved. And don't forget about Heroes and Horses.org. We got Micah Fink right now.

No one's heard from him for 72 days. We got one satellite transponder that said he is alive. He is doing well. doing well and he is now dressed in a mountain lion skin and he is making progress out in the wilderness. If you want to connect with us, echoes at Echo Charles on the social media. I'm at Jocka Willink, but just be advised. Algorithms looking to grab you.

So don't let it happen. Also, thanks to the folks out there in the ultimate leadership position, those in the military around the world facing the toughest challenges and moving forward toward those. challenges to protect us in this world and the same goes to our police law enforcement firefighters paramedics emts dispatchers correctional officers border patrol secret service all first responders you all step up to face challenges every day and lead so we thank you for keeping us safe and to everyone else out there pretty early on in this book today we covered the fact that fear and anger and frustration and any emotion can be diverted

from flight to attack and it gets diverted by you you're the one that gets to divert it you get to decide whether you run or whether you fight you get to decide to decide whether you curl up in a ball or you curl your fist to brawl whether you surrender or decide to go and conquer that is your decision and I recommend you make the decision to get up and get after it. And until next time, Zekko and Jocko out.