Jocko Podcast - 390: How to Sabotage The Enemy, But Also Yourself. With JP Dinnell

Episode Date: June 14, 2023

>Join Jocko UNDERGROUND < Jocko and JP Dinnell discuss sabotage and the protocols to effectively sabotage the enemy. Also, yourself. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 390 with Echo Charles and me Jocco Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. Also joining us tonight, J.P. Dinell. Good evening, J.P. Good evening. The President of the United States of America, authorized by Act of Congress July 9th, 1918, takes pleasure in presenting the Distinguished Service Cross to Colonel William Joseph Wild Bill Donovan, United States Army,

for extraordinary heroism in action while serving with 165th infantry regiment 42nd division in France, July 28th through the 21st, 1918. Colonel Donovan led his battalion across the river arc and captured important enemy strongholds. He was in advance of the division for four days, all the while under shell and machine gunfire from the enemy who were on three sides of him. And he was repeatedly and persistently counter-attacked, being wounded twice. Colonel Donovan's coolness and efficient leadership rendered possible the maintenance of this position. The President of the United States of America in the name of Congress takes pleasure in presenting the Medal of Honor

to Lieutenant Colonel William Joseph Wild Bill Donovan, United States Army. for extraordinary heroism on 14 and 15 October 1918 while serving as commanding officer 165th infantry 42nd Division American Expeditionary Forces in action at Londres A St. George France Lieutenant Colonel Donovan personally led the assaulting wave in an attack upon a very strongly organized position and when our troops were suffering heavy casualties He encouraged all near him by his example moving among his men in exposed positions Reorganizing decimated platoons and accompanying them forward in attacks When he was wounded in the leg by machine gun bullets he refused to be evacuated and continued with his unit

Until it withdrew to a less exposed position So there you go the nation's two highest awards for one man and by the way I've written a lot of awards in my time and you don't get to just throw someone's nickname in there you don't get to say Joseph William Joseph Wild Bill Donovan that's in both those official copies guys awarded the Distinguished Service Medal of Honor the National Security Medal the Silver Star Purple Heart for actions in World War II as well when he was awarded the Medal of Honor yeah actually received it he was awarded it in New York City in front of about 4,000 veterans and what he said when he received the award was the word belonged not to him but quote to the boys who are not here the boys resting under white crosses in France or in the cemeteries in New York so that's wild bill Donovan and he did all kinds of things after World War I and before World War II

So in between, he got out of the Army for a while. He became a lawyer. He kind of was a spy. He was a businessman. He was a U.S. attorney. He ran for the governorship of New York, lost. Then once World War II started, he was reinstated in the Army as a colonel. And he eventually became the director of the OSS,

the Office of Strategic Services, which conducted intelligence gathering and recruiting and training of indigenous forces. and sabotage and all kinds of espionage and warfare of all kinds in World War II. He was the director of that. The OSS was eventually disbanded in 1945 by Truman, but the beginning or the end of the OSS was where the seeds got planted for what would become the CIG, which is the Central Intelligence Group, which eventually became the CIA, including the CIA's Special Activities Division,

and the OSS also passed on some lineage theory. theoretically to US SOCOM, which was formed in 1987, but it also unified special operations under Wonder Command, and USOCOM uses the same symbol for their insignia at USOCOM. And at some point, I'm sure I will do a podcast about William Donovan and about the OSS, or I'll probably do a bunch of them. But tonight I wanted to discuss a field manual. that they published in 1944.

And the field manual is called simple sabotage. And I think what's so interesting about this, and basically there's a part of this, there's a part of this field manual that's very important from a leadership perspective. And almost everything in there is pertinent from a sabotage perspective. I know I went to a, I went to classes

when I was in the military that were basically sabotage perspective. I went to we learned about targeting we learned about how to do this type of thing But you're gonna see as we talk through this that like everything else it applies to everything that we do But what's interesting I think the way that this applies it replies it replies almost in a reverse engineering way because as you hear about how to screw things up You can realize that you might be screwing things up that you don't want to screw up so let's get into it jp a little sabotage i figured you like this one

so here we go published in 1944 office of strategic services washington dc 17 january 94 so we're talking middle world war two it says the simple this simple sabotage field manual strategic services provisional is published for the information and guidance of all concerned and will be used as the same, as the basic doctrine for strategic services training for this subject. The contents of this manual should be carefully controlled and should not be allowed to come into unauthorized hands.

There you go. It's been declassified. That's why we got it here. You know, and I was parsing through this thinking, okay, I'm just going to, not have to cover to this, too much of this stuff. And we'll get to the meat of what I wanted to talk about, which is towards the end.

But then this is just also important. It says this. The purpose of this paper is to characterize simple sabotage to outline its possible effects and to present suggestions for inciting and executing it. Sabotage varies from highly technical coup to main acts that require detailed planning and the use of specially trained operatives to innumerable simple acts, which the ordinary individual citizen saboteur can perform. And this is what I noticed when I was reading all this stuff, and this is why

I got even more into it and decided to cover it because you realize these, when you're running sabotage, all you have to do is screw up a lot of little things. Yeah. That's all you got to do is you gotta just screw up a little thing here, little thing there, a little something somewhere else.

And all of a sudden, those problems compound. And it turns to just, you know, you just trash things. And sometimes they're so subtle. And that's one of the things that's so subtle. I don't even notice. You don't even notice it. Just like, hmm,

looks like we're not going to be able to make payroll. Generally, it's not one big thing. You know, I had this thing with safety. One of my old commanding officers said this. He called it the Swiss cheese effect. And what it was most, when you have a safety incident, oftentimes it's not due to one catastrophic failure.

It's due to a bunch of, little failures and he called it the Swiss cheese effect because he said listen jaco if you take a piece of Swiss cheese and you put it on a plate and you take another piece of Swiss cheese and put it on the plate and you take another Swiss cheese and put it on the plate and you put four or five pieces of Swiss cheese you stack them on a plate most likely there's not going to be a hole that goes all the way through but when they line up that's when you have a problem and that's oftentimes what happens when there's a safety incident yeah

Again, if you reverse engineer that and you are trying to make someone have a problem, all you have to do is put some holes in the Swiss cheese. Now, we as leaders, what we're trying to do is we're trying to stop those holes. So this is one of those things. You've got to look at it from both perspectives. Goes on to say here, this paper is primarily concerned with the latter type. Simple sabotage does not require specially prepared tools. or equipment is executed by an ordinary citizen who may or may not act individually and without

the necessity for active connection with an organized group. And it is carried out in such a way as to involve a minimum danger of injury, detection, or reprisal. Once again, these are things that you don't even know are happening. Little tiny things. And again, it's important to think about your life. What little things are going on? in your life that you don't really notice just sabotage continuing where

destruction is involved the weapons of the citizen saboteur are salt nails candles pebbles thread or any other material he might normally be expected to possess as a household or as a worker in his particular occupation his arsenal is the kitchen self the trash pile, his own usual kit of tools and supplies. The targets of his sabotage are usually objects to which he has normal and inconspicuous access in everyday life. Just those little things that are out there. A second type of simple sabotage requires no destruction, no destructive tools whatsoever and produces physical damage. If any, by highly indirect means, it is based on universal

opportunities to make faulty decisions to adopt the non-cooperative attitude and to induce others to follow suit. This is when you start thinking it from a business perspective. We start talking to the leadership perspective. Making a faulty decision may be simply a matter of placing a tool, placing tools in one spot instead of another. A non-cooperative attitude may involve nothing more than creating an unpleasant situation among one's fellow workers engaging in bickering or displaying surliness and stupidity.

Isn't that weird? Isn't that interesting that we, that these things can cause such disruption that the Office of Strategic Service is saying, hey, if you can create bickering within a team, they're going to have problems. Remember in trade it? What a weird correlation for what's going on with this nation right now. Oh, you think? Yeah. Weird. Coincidental could it be?

Or could it be that we're getting fed social media that's actually creating? Creating the hate and discontent and just arguing just because, as we know, our ego's getting the way and we just can't let stuff go. Instead of people just ignoring it, imagine if we all just ignored it. Yeah. How powerful that would be. Yeah. And you know what? Listen to someone else's perspective and say, oh, yeah, they think,

a little bit different than me. Okay. I was talking to somebody recently and stole your line, gave you credit, though. You better give me credit. Better give me credit. When somebody says something that you don't agree with or, you know, it was along the lines of, you know, I've never thought of it that way. And that's it. Yep.

Don't engage. Don't argue. Don't push anything else. He's like, hey, you know what? I've never thought of it that way. And you can have a respectful tone. You don't have to be like, I've never thought of it that way. dumb, you know, like, hey, you know, I've never thought of it that way.

Completely disarmed them. Completely disarmed them. And if they keep pushing, be like, yeah, you know what? You're right. I've legitimately never thought of it that way. And, man, I appreciate your, appreciate your input. Yeah. Let it be.

Stop. And by the way, the thing that you're so in disagreement with is probably not that big of a deal. It's probably not that big of a thing. Yeah. You know, it's not something you should be fighting about. Okay, let me ask you this. when we were in trade at. Okay.

How much of a strong sign was it that we as trade at was winning when you'd see a platoon start fighting each other. It was a beautiful. It was like the, this is the exact example that they're talking about. When you have a platoon and the platoon chief and the lieutenant are yelling at each other, or the LPO is yelling at the guys and they're yelling back at him, or whatever combination of chaos and bickering, that destroys a platoon.

It destroys a platoon. And like you're saying, if someone can take the high ground and say, you know what, actually that's a good point. I didn't think of that. And deescalate that situation. That platoon can then get back together and move forward towards the target

as opposed to attacking each other. which is insane. It was insane to watch that. And we get to see it, I would say 50% of the time. 50% of the time you'd have some kind of a small conflict in the platoon that escalated to the point where it started to detriment their performance. And we talked to them about it, you know? We talked to them about it, but the reason that they're having a problem is because their egos. And so when you talk to him about it, they'd be like,

well, he just needs to talk to what I'm saying. He's not listening to him. Like, that's the rest of when you go. Okay. Cool. The best was when they would turn around us and be like, well, you guys are cheating and, but, like, all right, let's have an actual conversation.

Like, come on, man. Like, what do you think our intent is to cheat or to actually prepare you for war? Yeah. Like, what do you think our biggest priority is? And when you could, like, show people that, just by asking them of those simple questions, they'd be like, And they would realize, it would take them some time

but man, it's crazy how emotionally connected or not connected but emotionally just sucked in and charged guys would get over and then we would just poke that a little bit more, a little bit more, spit them up. Yeah. What we were doing was we were following this manual

for sabotage to see if we could get that platoon to freaking start going after each other because this is the things you want to have happen in training. You want them to get through that. Yes. And recognize it here. So when they're overseas, they can freaking get along and work shit out.

This type of activity sometimes referred to as the human element is frequently responsible for accidents, delays, and general obstruction. Even under normal conditions, the potential saboteur should discover what types of faulty decisions and non-cooperation are normally found in this kind of work and then should devise his sabotage as to in. enlarge that margin for error it's crazy it's crazy I was on Huberman's podcast and I said hey if I had a if I had a team of 10 people and you had a 10 team of 10 people and my team all hated each other and your team all loved each other and got a long great who's gonna win he's like I hope my team yeah absolutely my team would still be arguing about what the mission was about who we're gonna take about who's gonna do what job and JP's like yeah I want to lead this assault and

ECHO's like no I should be leading this assault and you two are fighting and then finally I'm like okay Echo's gonna lead it and then spends the rest of the time undermining Echo's plan that happens man insane possible effects acts of sabotage are occurring throughout Europe an effort should be made to add to their efficiency less than their detectability increase their number acts of simple sabotage multiplied by thousands of citizens saboteurs can be an effective weapon against any enemy slashing tires draining fuel tanks starting fires starting arguments acting stupidly short-circuiting electrical systems.

Abraiding machine parts will waste materials, manpower, and time. Occurring on a wide scale, simple sabotage will be a constant and tangible drag on the war effort of the enemy. And again, why am I saying this? Why does this matter? Is anyone that's listening to this podcast right now thinking about how they're going to slash tires and drain fuel tanks? No. No. But do you think that there's draining fuel somewhere in your life?

Yeah. The energy. Do you think that there's energy leaking out? Right? Do you think there's some short circuits going on in your life somewhere? Do you think there's some stupid acting somewhere in your life? And it's little. But then you multiply that across time and you got problems.

Simple sabotage may have. Also have secondary results of more or less value. Widespread practice of simple sabotage will harass and demoralize enemy administrators and police. Further success may emboldened the citizen saboteurs eventually to find colleagues who can assist him in sabotage or of greater dimension. Finally, the very practice of simple sabotage by natives in enemy occupied territory may make these individuals identify themselves actively with the United Nations war effort and encourage them to assist openly in periods of allied invasion and occupation. So everything compounds. And these little problems that you have,

They get worse. This is what happens when you, you know, you're late for work. And your boss is a little bit negative with you because you were late and then you're a little bit negative back. But you're also, you were a little bit late. So now you're trying to catch up and now you make a little mistake and now your boss is on you that because of that mistake. And he gives you a bad evaluation. You can see where there's things go wrong in life from little tiny, acts of sabotage

which were perpetrated by you by the way that's the worst part of it you know people they know the whole thing about we talk about self-sabotage right and they make self-sabotage into this thing

we're like you know I really thought I was gonna be a rock star you know I was gonna be a rock star but I just self-sabotaged you know I just I just you know every time I was about to get that record deal I'd go get drunk and just you know, wouldn't show up to the,

people say that kind of stuff. And I'm sure it happens, you know. I'm sure there's people that are like that. But to me, self-sabotage is not like, oh, I didn't want to be so successful. So I sat-sabotage is like, oh, I cut a corner. I didn't control my emotions.

I let my ego get in the way. Those are all yourself. Yeah. But it's almost like an unintentional self. Yeah. What do you think causes people to keep going down that path, though? Because we all make those mistakes, like you said. And then there are people that just will legitimately start.

Now, there's a difference between self-sabotage and playing the victim card. The victim card's easy to play because you don't have to have any responsibility or accountability. You blame everybody else. And then we all have enough people in our lives that actually support the playing the victim card. But like, oh, you know, and then they comfort you. And it's not your fault. You're like, yeah, you know. So, but then when it comes to self-sabotage, I mean, I mean, I've talked about this before on this podcast and at the muster.

and everything else like that. I mean, like, I ruined my marriage with Amanda. I did 100%. Temporarily. Yes, I was going to get there. I know. Temporarily. Yes,

100%. Yeah, actually, I'm glad that you said that because I think one podcast we talked about how Amanda and I were divorced and we never brought it back full circle to her back together. Sorry, Amanda. Yeah. No, I mean, a year later, by the grace of God, we had a second chance. You know, we went to church.

I've shared that story before. or like literally the pastor was talking about letting go of anger and resentment in your heart. And I'm like, okay, I'm listening to God. And, you know, we went to a small group of the church. We got into counseling. And, you know, more importantly, all that stuff was great. But we both decided to make the effort. We both, we both had to be all in.

We both took ownership over things in our life. And that's, you know, I've told you this. Like, that's what I read extreme ownership before I was a part of this team during this time. I read extreme ownership. And I was like, oh, yeah, knucklehead. But I'm just wondering like the whole sabotage thing, like, what causes people to keep going down that path? Or making it worse and worse. In my opinion, it's because they actually don't want bad enough to have that thing, whatever that thing.

I agree. So like you just said, you said you and Amanda, you both decided you actually wanted to be married and have a life together. Yes, 100%. If you don't do that, then everything else is just a way to split it apart. Because everything great in life is hard. Going through buds is hard. But you know what? There's greatness with having that trident pinned on your chest.

And this isn't just about the steel teams. I mean, we've worked with every branch of the military. And they all have outstanding soldiers and Marines and airmen and great selection processes that they all get a lot of benefit from going to that stuff. You know? And so, but like marriage, marriage is hard. but you can make it easy if you decide it's what you want to do because when you decide that it's what you want to do then those little things it's like okay yeah that's actually not that big of a deal

you can make it hard or you can make it easy and it's like I think align with what you just said it's it's a it's a mindset thing of like hey do you really want it if you do you'll work through it if you don't then you'll just keep making mistakes because making mistakes is easy you don't have to think I'm in the process of preparing a podcast about why America has lost wars. We're on a losing streak. And one of the reasons, I got a bunch of reasons, one of the reasons that we lose wars is we lose wars that we didn't have to win.

We've never lost a war that we had to win. But the minute we get in a war that we don't have to win, It's not important enough and we do this to ourselves. Look, when you have to win a war, if we if if if we have to win a war, we will win that. Do we say, hey, you know what? After one year, the soldiers can go home. No. No, we don't say that.

We say you'll fight until we win. Yeah. That's World War II. Yeah. Do we say, hey, you know what? We're not sure how many troops we're going to deploy. No, we're going to deploy all of them. Oh, we don't know if a draft is the proper thing to do it.

No, we're going to draft everyone. If you're between the ages of 18 and 50-year-old male, you're going to go fight. That's when we, one of the reasons that we lose wars, it's because we lose wars that we don't have to win. Look, there's a chance we can win. Like, we can go into the first Iraq war, and we build up, and we go, cool. And we play that first quarter, and we're up by freaking 40 points. And we're like, cool. And the other team just says, we're not even coming back out.

We go, see, we want. Cool. high five we can do we do that but we get into wars that we don't have to win and that is one of the reasons why we lose so just like you're saying in life if you expect someone to be able to put forth the effort and make the small sacrifices on a daily basis and a large sacrifice on a daily basis in order to get somewhere where they want to be there's if they don't really want to be either they won't be I mean you just talked about seal training.

Yeah. Why do you guys quit seal training? Because they don't want to be there anymore. And why do you guys not quit? Because that's all they want. There you go. It's just not an option for them. And they don't allow that complacency to creep into their lives.

And it's like the premise of what you're just talking about. We lose wars that we didn't need to fight. That's because we get complacent and we start getting lazy. We just make stupid mistakes or end or things aren't our priority anymore. And, you know, which, I mean, from there, we can go down how many rabbit holes? Yep. And it's the same thing in your marriage. You're taking a relationship with your kids, parents, like training jiu-jitsu, all aspects of your life.

Yeah. Yeah. And really, that's, as I started working on these various reasons why we lose wars, they all stem from that. Here's another thing. And I'll just, when we have to win, guess what we do with generals that aren't good? Get rid of them. Yes. We fire them.

We just go, oh, yeah, you lost that battle. You're fired. that doesn't happen if we don't have to win it's like playing in a football game echo charles if you're playing in a football game that you don't have to win are you gonna put your star player in there well you might but you might save them I mean that happens right with the pre preseason games right yes they're not putting the the big stud in there maybe he'll play half the game am I right yep you are right so what if what if it's the state finals what if it's a state finals yeah

He's playing. He's playing. Pete just showed me this kid, lacrosse kid. Did you see this? They taped this kid. They taped like a band. You know the band, like the stretchy bands for working out? Yeah.

The guy tore, the kid tore his hamstring. So they taped. They taped this band. It's incredible. To like the top of his thigh and to the top of his calf. So he had an artificial external hamstring to function. Because he was needed to wear. Because he needed to win as a state championships.

Or maybe it was the collegiate finals. But he had to win. There was no, there was nothing else. I love that mindset. And just the mindset of that kid as well, just being like, yeah, let's go. Yeah, for sure. That kid in that game had to win. So if you're entering into wars, you're going to make all kinds of decisions that are

a little bit off, a little bit off. Hey, I've done that. Like oh we're in task unit bruiser we're in a training mission and one of my junior officers does something stupid Do I say like hey stop you I'm gonna take over? No, let him keep going do something stupid in the field like on a mission like hey get in the Humvee. I got that like you're not you're not playing around So that's when you ask these questions when you ask that question about like what causes a person to not do the right things Because they don't have to win. And when you don't have to win, you make the easy,

make little, cut little corners. I mean, how many times do we see this with our clients, the businesses we work with? Yeah. Like,

they just get complacent, they get comfortable, and they start making all those mistakes because they have allowed the disease of victory to creep in as well. Yeah. You,

you need almost an existential threat. A threat to your very existence. That happens with companies. Yeah. Companies are, They're hiring a bunch of people. They got a bunch of overhead. Everything's going good.

Maybe they take a little hit. Maybe they make as much money, but it's okay. As soon as that things go upside down and they're losing money, all of a sudden, you'll see them making real decisions. Like, hey, we're firing these number of people. We're cutting this division away. Like, this is what we're doing. They didn't do it when there wasn't an accident,

when there wasn't a threat to their existence. So these are important things to think about. because you get in this habit of allowing sabotage to happen in your team, in your business, in your life, and it sneaks up on you. Section here, motivating the saboteur. To incite the citizen to the active practice of simple sabotage and to keep him practicing that sabotage over sustained periods is a special problem. Simple sabotage is often an act which the citizen performs according to his own initiative

and inclination. Acts of destruction do not bring him any personal gain and may be completely foreign to his habitual conservative attitude toward materials and tools. Purposeful stupidity is contrary to human nature. He frequently needs pressure, stimulation, or assurance and information and suggestions regarding reasonable and feasible methods of simple sabotage. So what he's saying? You're asking someone, you know in let's say occupied France to go out and and conduct sabotage what do they have to gain from it well they can get caught by the Nazis they can get killed right there's there's all those things now you should be conducting sabotage where it's hard to catch you but that's what they're up against so how do you motivate them it says here personal motives the ordinary citizen

very probably has no immediate personal motive for committing simple sabotage instead he must be made to anticipate indirect personal gain, such as might come with the enemy evacuation or destruction of the ruling government group. Gains should be stated as specifically as possible for the area addressed. So what they're saying is you've got to say, listen, hey, French resistance fighter, when we get the Nazis out of there, you're going to be elevated into a heroic position. You're going to be elevated into the new government position. Like, you're going to be given rewards.

You need to let them know that. This was interesting abstract verbalizations about personal liberty freedom of the press and so on will not be convincing in most parts of the world in many areas They will not even be comprehensible. That's pretty interesting That you can be said don't you want freedom and there's some people in the world that are like no dude. I want just to like be left alone with my family I just want to grow my crops or whatever it's the only thing they know Yeah, yeah So think about these things when and I wrote about this in leadership strategy and tactics I called it the 3rd thread of why people got to understand how it impact how it's going to help you

JP so when I'm saying a JP hey JP if you could sell more of these wits or you could make more of these widgets every day that'd be great and JP's like well I'm making 20 a day I'm getting my paycheck how my benefit by working extra hard and making 25 what do I get from that still I work this do I work the same amount of hours I but I worked harder the whole time I didn't take extra breaks I was a little bit stressed. Well, how does that, I don't care. What if I say, hey, JP, if you can make these things, if you can make 25 a day, we're going to be able to sell them for a little bit cheaper. If we can sell them for a little bit cheaper, we're going to sell more of them. If we sell more of them,

we're going to need more people to work here. If we need more people to work here, guess who's going to be in charge of them? You do. Guess what that means? More money, and you won't be on that line anymore. You're going to be in charge of it. All of a nice, show you the opportunity that you might have. I can't motivate you by saying, hey, JP, if you can really make some extra widgets every day our share holders are going to get a bigger dividend oh I can't wait right that doesn't mean you don't care about that why would you so make sure that you're motivating people with things that actually make sense to them and have a real impact with them going on since the effect of his own acts as limited the saboteur

may become discouraged unless he feels that he is a member of a large though unseen group of saboteurs operating against the enemy me or the government of his own country and elsewhere. So it's very important that you make people recognize and feel that they are part of a larger group that is moving in the same direction. You can't just feel like you're out there doing this by yourself. And how do you do that? And it goes into how it do it here.

But you basically do that by propagating the story, by explaining how that was helpful. By bringing that team together and letting the team know, hey, JP you might be working alone you know on this line today but the night shift last night they did 27 and the morning shift they did they only did 19 but that morning shift that they're getting a little bonus we mean bonus yeah because they're helping everyone out okay and all of a sudden you recognize you're part of something bigger and then it says huh and I like this more important than those two reasons here it says would be to create a situation in which the citizen saboteur acquires a sense of

responsibility and begins to educate others in simple sabotage. So when you make people feel responsible for what's happening in their country and what's happening in their neighborhood and what's happening in their family, that's the most powerful of these motivations that you can give somebody. It goes on here to talk about encouraging destructiveness, which some people kind of have in their soul. They want to destroy things, but some people don't. It says, it should be pointed out that to the saboteur, where the circumstances are suitable, that he is acting in self-defense against the enemy or retaliating against the enemy for acts of destruction, a reasonable amount of humor. In the presentation of suggestions for simple sabotage,

will relax tensions of fear. Humor is a tool. Use it. The saboteur might have to reverse his thinking and he should be told in so many words where he formerly thought of keeping his tools sharp he would now let them go dull surfaces that were formally lubricated should now be sanded normally diligent he should now be lazy and careless and so on starting to get the feeling echo's been sabotaged me this whole time once he is encouraged to think backwards about himself and the objects of his everyday life the saboteur will see many opportunities in his immediate environment, which cannot possibly be seen from a distance. A state of mind should be encouraged that anything can be sabotaged.

Now, what is amazing about this? This is a very bold form of decentralized command, literally saying, hey, I can't tell JP what to do on the front lines. I can't tell him how to best sabotage the machine shop that he works in. He's got to figure out the best way to do it. He's got to look for it, which the opposite of that is equally true. I can't figure out the way for JP to be most efficient. He's got to be the one that's given the authority and the autonomy and the freedom to think about the best way to do it.

Present me with a plan. Hey boss, I'm making this widget every day and you've got me carrying every five pack. You've got me carrying them across the whole platform here, across the whole factory. Takes me like a minute and a half to get over there. A minute and a half to get back. If I stacked them all up here by the end of the day, someone could just come and grab them, make one trip. I'll save three minutes every 15 minutes.

Wow, thank you. So, yes, decentralized sabotage is a good thing if you're in that mode of war. But in your business, are you giving decentralized control? And inspirado, and to become more efficient. Because if you're not doing that,

if you're not encouraging that, if I'm just like, hey, JP, here's your job, do it. And you say, hey, I thought if I, hey, listen, just do your job. Hey, my appeal. No, just do your job. If that's what I'm doing, not helping. Among the potential citizen saboteurs who are to engage in physical destruction, two extreme types may be distinguished.

On the one hand, there is a man who is not technically trained and employed. This man needs specific suggestions as to what he can and should destroy, as well as the details regarding the tools by means of which destruction is accomplished. The other extreme is a man who's a technician, such as a lathe operator, an automobile mechanic. Presumably this man would be able to devise methods of simple sabotage, which would be appropriate to his own facilities. However, this man needs to be stimulated to reorient his thinking in the direction of destruction. specific examples which need not be from his own field should accomplish us again it's very important to realize that people we all get trained we get trained into a way of thinking and if jp if i take over a factory and the last boss that worked there was a a tyrant who told everyone shut up and do

what i told you to do when i take over and i see that we could be more efficient but i'm not quite sure how I'm going to have to retrain JP's brain because JP he offered a suggestion six years ago got yelled at he hasn't

he offered one three weeks after that got yelled that again he hasn't said a word since he's got his paycheck and he's gotten out of it he might have even look for another job

so you've got to retrain people's brains so that they're thinking a different way extremely important yeah various media can be used to disseminate suggestions. It goes through that. It talks about safety measures.

The amount of activity carried on by the saboteurs shall be governed on not only by the number of opportunities he sees, but also by the amount of danger he feels. Bad news travels fast. Simple sabotage will be discouraged if too many simple saboteurs are arrested. Good point. I guess what they do to saboteurs? They execute them publicly. That's why. That's the propaganda that comes back. So when you're in a leadership position and somebody offers a suggestion and and you execute them by yelling at him or whatever, you're encouraging or ensuring that no one else does that. Whereas when JP says, hey, I think this would be faster

if we go this way, and I lift up JP, and I give him a reward or I reward him some way. All of a sudden, other people go, oh, this is a positive thing. We should be making suggestions. We should see how we can be more efficient. Same leadership principles apply. I mean, it's the same thing that you do

when you're training an animal. Yeah, like a horse or a dog. I mean, you give them rewards and if they make a mistake, obviously there should be punishment, but what's unique about that is the punishment should be at the most like the least amount possible and then you escalate from there as needed to where you hit that threshold to correct it and then you bring it back down when they make the correction and you reward them. And it's just it's the same thing with how we treat our people. It's the same thing with how you treat your kids. And, you know, as you're saying all these things, I'm writing out a bunch of things, but I know we talk about this often is teach your people how to think, not what to think. And you're asking these people to go out there and do all these acts of sabotage. You've got to teach them how to think. And, you know, it's the same thing when you're training up your people in your organization.

Like your goal as a leader as we all know is to replace yourself. And unfortunately, society has been conditioned to think the opposite. I'm like, well, if I have somebody that can do my job, I'm going to lose my job. If they're a threat, they're a threat to me. That's a form of sabotage, you know, that people do because they start disseminating those little lies within themselves of like, well, if Echo can do my job, I mean, I mean, well, then Echo's probably going to take my job. And it's just, it's, it's sad to see how people have been conditioned that way, just from all aspects of your life. And as a leader, you've got to be aware of that. Yes.

You got to be aware that J.P. is not lazy or unmotivated. He's just been trained not to give input. He's been trained to keep his mouth shut. Yeah. And some bosses want that. They're losers. They're losers. A good boss wants the team to give feedback and explanations and advice and suggestions.

Isn't it weird? Sometimes you've got to put a suggestion box up. Right? Sure. And what's crazy is like the only time it works is if it's anonymous. Yeah, like anonymous suggestion box. That's like a training wheel to try and get people back to like, please talk to us and tell us what's going on. Check.

Use materials which appear to be innocent. A knife or nail file can be carried normally on your person. Either is multi-permatches, pebbles, hair, salt, nails, dozens of other destructive agents can be carried or kept in your living quarters without even exciting any suspicion whatsoever if you're a worker in trade industry you can easily carry such things as wrenches hammers emery paper and the like so there you go this is important to try to commit acts for which large numbers of people could be responsible for instance if you blow out the wiring in the factory at a central firebox almost anyone could have done it

Ah, good stuff. Fast forward a little bit. The citizen saboteur cannot be closely controlled, nor is it reasonable to expect that simple sabotage can be precisely concentrated on specific types of target according to the requirements of a concrete military situation. So again, this is decentralized command. Things are going to get a little bit loose.

Hey, with decentralized command, there's risk. Yep. There's risk with decentralized command. There are going to be times where things, you know, JP does something that wasn't good. It's going to happen. It's going to happen. There's going to be a time when JP, I let him do this, I let him do this, I let him do this, I let him do this, I let him do this. Good, good, good, good, good.

I let him do this and all of a sudden something else happens. that if you're using decentralized command, there are going to be times where you're like, okay, I got to go, got to do some damage control here. Like, oh, it's a little bit much. Okay. Like, that's going to happen. And that's okay.

Matter of fact, I just had this conversation with somebody to us in front. They were like, oh, I'm sorry that I didn't let you know. And I was like, hey, you don't have to be sorry that you didn't let me know. if I had everyone letting me know everything that they were doing all day long and they were waiting for my approval no one would be doing anything that stresses me out yeah no one would be doing anything it's no factor it's literally no factor I'm happy that you did this so it's like no factor that's why we have CCIRs by the way that's why we have critical commander's critical information reports so if you do something that is really bad you're you will know, oh, JP had a client that wants their money back. Yep, he's going to call me immediately. Yeah.

It's never happened. But if it ever happened, he'd be like, hey, Jocco, this client wants their money back. I'd be like, okay, what happened? But you see what I'm saying? Yeah, we're going to reverse engineer this one. Yeah, that's going to ever happen again. But when you, there is risk associated with decentralized command. but the risk of centralized command is infinitely worse because now instead of me having 10 things happen

one of them is a little bit outside the box instead I have one thing happen and it was inside the box and nine things don't happen yeah and you lose so keep that in mind um the saboteur should be ingenious and using his everyday equipment we kind of got through that the sabbatore should never attack targets beyond his capacity or the capacity of his instruments. Cool. Fair enough. The saboteur should be encouraged to attack transportation. And it goes into this whole thing.

So part of this manual is actually like the technical piece of this, like the technical part of how to, how to conduct actual physical sabotage. We're not going to go into a bunch of that. You know, it's got about it's got about buildings. It's got about warehouses, barracks, offices, hotels, factories. How you can do it. You can do it with fires. You can do it with floods. Train tracks.

Train tracks. That's transportation. In the floods thing, saturate a sponge with a thick starch or sugar solution, squeeze it tightly into a ball, wrap it with its string, and let it dry. Remove the string when it's fully dried. The sponge will be in the form of a tight, hard ball.

Flush down a toilet or otherwise introduce into a sewer line. The sponge will gradually expand to its normal size and plug the sewage system. That basically over time. Dude. It's a day or two. God. No connection back to you.

You know, I got my truck, you know, an F-250, so it's a diesel, turbo diesel. Everything was great. I was driving it back from St. Louis where I got it. And it was awesome. And then I get gas. Everything's good to go. I get gas one more time at a gas station I thought was going to be good because it's just a large gas.

station, a bunch of pumps. Well, what's awesome about this gas station is a bunch of pumps for like regular vehicles. There's not a lot of diesel vehicles that go through there. So I had I got a now thank God it was only half a tank. I don't like my vehicles getting below half a tank. Well that SOP for me saved me because when I filled up the half a tank it was a bad diesel fuel. Which caused problems but it wasn't initial. It wasn't right away. So I'm driving it no issue the next day I can't start my brand new vehicle. And I am, I can't figure it out called this guy that came to, remember that couple that came to FTX001.

The guy was a diesel mechanic. They lived in Texas. Oh, yeah, yeah. Him and his wife came to the, dude, the guy had like grizzly bear paw hands, you know, awesome guy. So I like text him. He's a diesel mechanic. I'm like, hey, what's going on?

He's like, well, first problem is you go to Ford. I'm like, okay, yeah, cool, thanks. However, you know, he's a, he's a Dodge guy. Oh, yeah. And so he's giving me a hard time. And we're going through everything. And he's like, hey, man, you got bad, you got bad fuel. And it was just like a, so the only reason why I'm sharing the story is it's a simple thing of like, I didn't realize it right away.

It wasn't drastic enough. And I had to, I tried to drain it. And then I had to put a crap ton of fuel additives and water separation things in there and just literally just drive it. Once it actually started, I have to keep it running and try to burn as much fuel, put clean fuel in there, put more out. I mean, it was a nightmare. But. And that was one simple thing of it had like bad diesel fuel that had some water in it and it was and imagine that was your tank and you were rolling into combat with 50 other tanks that had been all fueled with the same fuel that someone had pissed in. Yep.

Yeah. That's the kind of thing that this disaster. It goes into all this kind of stuff. Paper jams. Here's one. Jam paper, bits of wood, hairpins and anything else that will fit into the lot. of all unguarded entrances to public buildings this is just horrible man that talks about tools how you could just like let your let your tools all be dull let your

saws be twisted clean files by knocking them against the vice or of or the workplace they're easily broken bits and drills will snap under heavy pressure everything is like this it's just talking about how you can just ruin everything oil lubrication oil and lubrication systems are not only vulnerable but you also easy to sabotage boom there you go put metal dust or filings fine sand ground glass emery dust and similar hard gritty substances directly into lubrication systems freaking terrible using and and again the the comparison to life is these are all little tiny barely noticeable things that destroy and wear you down over time and break you eventually

you you're ruined Cause a little tiny things. Use a thin oil where heavy oil is prescribed. Cooling systems. Talks about how to freaking cause problems with them. Here's the one that you almost dealt with. Water, urine, wine, or any simple liquid you can get reasonably large quantities will dilute gasoline fuel to a point where it's no longer combustible. Here's a little pro for Elon Musk.

Electric motors. Electric motors are more restricted than the targets so far discussed. They cannot be sabotaged as easily or without risk of injury by unskilled persons who may otherwise have good opportunities for destruction. The electric motor is a little hard to mess with. See, I mean, I believe that. But in my mind, I feel like I could cause a good amount of damage to an electric motor. Yeah, well.

But with equal effort. How? In my mind. What would you do? That's my ego talking right now. But initially, I'm telling you right now. I'm just thinking like to me like an electric I mean like even the new vehicles that we have you're driving computers any one little thing like any one little chip or fuse it can literally

shut down your whole vehicle. True. I have my grandfather's old 83 Ford. Yeah. You know and it's like that thing was sitting for years in my grandparents barn two years ago. My grandmother heard herself on the property and was like, hey, I got to, I'm selling the property. I got to move. I flew out there literally the very next.

morning to start unloading stuff from the property. And, you know, I had that truck there that I bought from her when my grandfather passed away and her old Volkswagen that Amanda bought from her. And so I had to get those things shipped out of there. And I had to get them started. They had been sitting for years and years and years. And all I had to do is go get a fuel separator to separate the water from the gas, get some new gas, change out of filter, get some a carb cleaner and just basically put a whole thing a carb cleaner in there and be like cranking it and I was able to get that truck started and I'd been sitting forever and I just feel like an electric engine or motor or vehicle like you just start literally just just start pulling wires now I get

what he's saying though like if you're not trained it can cause injury to yourself but I don't know again this is my ego talking I went to I kind of want to set up a comparison I went to a school for stealing cars And just think about what he just said. The seal team set him. He was paid per diem to learn how to steal cars. And one thing that we learned real quick is the modern cars are a lot harder to steal. You kind of have to be a little bit of a specialist and you probably have to have some special tools. If you're going to, and today this is even true.

I was going to say, when was this schooling? This school is like in the mid-90s. And so you need like cars like that 1985. Like, 1985, you can walk up and you can get that thing started. Like, you can make it happen. Some of them are so easy. It's crazy. You can basically, some of them, you basically would take a screwdriver, a flathead screwdriver,

hammer it into the ignition and just crank it really hard. It would turn like the key. Like that was the key was the actual, the little mechanism of the key was the thing that was stopping it from starting. So all you had to do is get that thing to turn. Those wheel, like they had wheel locks. And all you had to do was just crank that and it would break off. So it was really easy to steal and those older cars. But as soon as you get, like I said, into the 90s,

like you're talking about the cars with whatever kind of computer chips they have in them, they have little shutdown systems. It's way harder to steal them. You can't. So I could start. So Amanda has an expedition. And we learned this. We learned this firsthand.

She dropped me off at the airport. I drove. You know, so I drove our family there. I get out. Keys. Keys. Keys in my pocket.

it, but vehicle's still running. So, I mean, it can stay running without it. I get out and I'm walking and I get a miss call. I have a miss call and I didn't recognize it. And I get another one. I'm like, hey, and she's like, hey, I need the key. I'm like, I tap my, I'm like, dang it. And so she couldn't drive it though.

Without that key in the vehicle, it will not drive. So I have a buddy that, you know, he has a dog that he brings everywhere with them. And that's what he does. leaves the car running with his dog in there, locks it, keeps a key fob with them. Even if you broke in, you physically cannot drive that vehicle without the key fob in there. I think Teslas have a pet mode. They do have a pet mode. It keeps it cool in there.

They do. That's pretty cool. Kind of cool. Tesla's. One just broke the record on the Nuremberg track for the Nuremberg ring for, what is it? fastest production car. Didn't say. Yep.

You've been in one? A fast one? Yeah, we had a client back. I was working with them in December, 2018. And yeah, he had one back. And that was like the new fast one back then. Yeah. And he took us in and it was like, oh, okay.

It's 1.9.060 now for the plaid. That's insane. One point nine. I my one of my friends had a Audi R8 Those are sick I have a buddy that has one of those It had the 10 cylinder

It was the it was the good one And we were like at a stoplight In a In a You know a city area And he floored it Like when the thing turned green And I was laughing pretty hard

It's awesome when you're like Stop yeah But so that thing probably did Zero to 60 in three One Or 3.9. And apparently it can beat that. Apparently they say, hey, it's 1.9, but it can actually do less than that.

And they're just now that someone's going to legitimately kill themselves if they can go that fast. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. But don't worry, JP can sabotage it. Again, my ego is talking, but it's like that initial, like, wait, what? It goes on, like I said, it talks about transformers. It talks about turbines. It talks about metals, production of mining.

It just goes into everything. And again, this is real tactile stuff. How to disturb agricultural production, what you were talking about, railways, what you can do there. I kind of thought this was funny. Railways, travel. Make train travel as inconvenient as possible for enemy personnel.

Make mistakes in issuing train tickets, leaving portions of the journey uncovered by the ticket book. Issue two tickets for the same seat in the train so that an interesting argument will result. Near train time instead of issuing printed tickets, write them out slowly by hand, prolonging the process until the train is nearly ready to leave or has left the station. On station bulletin boards announcing train arrivals and departures, see that false and misleading information is given about trains bound for enemy destinations. In trains bound for enemy destinations, a tenant should make life as uncomfortable as possible for passengers. See that the food is especially bad.

Take up tickets after midnight. Call all station stops very loudly during the night. Handle baggage as noisily as possible during the night and so on. See that the luggage of the economy personnel is mislaid or unloaded in the wrong station. Switch address labels on enemy baggage. Engineers should see that the trains run slow or make unscheduled stops for plausible reasons. So there you go. Have you traveled a bunch?

It seems like there's a lot of this. I feel like I feel like I'm living this. I had a unique travel story getting here. This manual, who is this for? This manual. So this manual is for agents of the OSS. So these are people that are what became the CIA. These people did espionage.

They did undercover work. They also did. They also work with the military as well. So they would do forward operations going into areas before the military arrived. those kind of people. But this is for those people to train up the French resistance. Gotcha.

So that's those type. They're training those types of people. And actually, they were mostly successful. They were very successful in Asia. Like when we had Bed Milligan on by Water Beneath the Walls. Awesome book. Please get it.

Incredible book. It's just insane. Insane book. It makes you want to go back through buds and go back into the teams again of course it makes me want to go back it makes me want to go back to 1940 and be part of the ncdus and stay alive and just live just go through every just stay in for the past whatever it is how many years is that what year was it be 1940 i mean from so we're talking we're talking 83 years yeah it's crazy because seal team won

they had the 60th anniversary this year yeah And when I got to Zeal Team 1, I went to the 30th anniversary. It's insane. You know it's coming up in August? Yeah, the 40th anniversary of Steel Team 3. Yeah. It's incredible. Yeah, that book, he won.

It gave me a huge sense of pride in the SEAL teams and being a part of the community. And whether you're in the SEAL teams for four years or 40 years, it was just, he is so incredibly intelligent. and his ability to articulate and share those stories and bring honor to those men and honor to our community was just insane. To the point where I mean, I turned 40 in March and I'm thinking like, man, if I had to do it again, could I? And I was like, and I even like tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like now going through buds tomorrow, that would be, I'm, yeah, that would be a struggle.

But being in a platoon and deploying, like, you know, could I, if I had to get myself ready to go through it again, could I? The answer is absolutely yes. 100% yes. But, you know, like I think about when I was 19 years old going through buds, it was just, you know, completely different. I was 145 pounds and, you know, life was different. But that book was so just, it was, I mean, he did such a good job representing the SEAL teams. And the research that he did. Actual research and not like.

So much good research. And, you know, explaining the explaining where we. came from and I've had guys from Vietnam the Vietnam era seals read that book and they love it every seal loves that book yeah because he brought information to light that we just didn't know as a community we didn't know which is crazy it should be mandatory reading when you're going through training it should be um when I got to the team there was nothing written down anywhere yeah nothing do you believe in mandatory reading yes yeah I do I wish I wish about Face would have been mandatory.

I've checked you that so many times. I should have done more of it. I didn't do it. You know, I didn't do it. I shouldn't, and you know what I should have done is I shouldn't have done mandatory reading.

I should have done like optional book club. Yeah. I was just curious. That's why I said mandatory because I know. You 100% would have gone. And so would everybody. Yeah. Like if I would have said,

hey, we're going to have optional book club or, hey, optional, you know, hey, we're going to talk. We're going to do some,

some brief on history today. It's going to make you a better warfighter. Exactly. Done. Okay. yeah sorry yeah it's it's I absolutely should have done that and I didn't and I apologize I like I would you know what I was always I was always more I was always more I was always more I was always more I was always more controlling over like the officers yeah you know because I

felt like the e-dogs they you know they had work to do and they I wanted to give them the space you know what I mean? Yeah. Like I didn't even make, I never made it unless a guy come trained jihitsu. But I made officers come train jitzy. And yeah. I've always wanted to actually ask you that question of like, hey, do you believe in mandatory this?

Because it kind of goes against a lot of the stuff that we teach and that we live by. But I mean, as a 40 year old man who has a family, who I have a 17 year old son, you know, who we're trying to prepare to be a young man that contributes to society to be an asset and not a liability. It's the same thing with our twin daughters is I look, you know, I think about it. And I've texted you this before. And it was never like a, hey, you know, it was just us talking, you know, like we do.

And I mean, from the standpoint of like now looking back, man, I would have loved for you and Seth or anybody, anybody, anybody, you know, to be like, hey, JP, you have to read this book. And here's why. Because I also know that if you. would have mandated anything, there would have been a why behind it. It's like, okay, I'm good with that. And I think there's like things that, you know, if you can spend it in a different way of not saying mandatory, obviously, because that forces people to shut down and, you know, you make it their idea.

Obviously, they're going to take ownership. They're going to bring it on board more. I just, I mean, there's things like, man, if I was 22 years old, if I would have read about face when I was 22 years old, man, I think, even if it would have kept me from doing one of the, these stupid things I did when I was 22 and or just, you know, just. And that's why I'm thankful that my parents had us in church and reading the Bible. That was a non-negotiable for our family is going to church because, you know, and they, but they didn't do it in a way that was like, hey, you're going to do this. It was a, hey, this is important and this is why.

And my dad shared stories as to why it was important. And my mom did as well. And that was like, I'm glad. And so forth, our family, it was like, no, no, no, we're going to church. We're going to be praying. We're going to read the Bible. We're going to learn to have some knowledge and a relationship with Jesus. And this is why.

Yeah. And you don't, you let them want to do it. Two things. Number one, as we're sitting here talking about like, oh, like having reading, mandatory reading. Think about our schedule when we were in a task together. Yeah. Like seriously, like think about our schedule. Honestly, think about our schedule.

Like there is, there is no holes in that schedule. and you know I I just feel like yeah it would have been hard I should have done it though I could have found holes I could have found holes there's holes when I was sitting at the bar drinking there you go that I could have been I should have found holes hey also man like you know a lot of guys just aren't into reading at that age or at that time in their lives and I agree and I agree with what you're saying the whole thing you're thinking from and with like like All due respect, you're looking at from the standpoint of like the amount of reading you do now. Yeah. If you would have been like, JP, 10 minutes of reading a day. Yeah. I should have done it, man. Anybody.

I'm not saying you should have done it. I'm just saying like, I look at it from a standpoint. Like there are some things as we get older. There is a good way that I think. Like, so that's what I'm trying to do as a parent is just like, you know, there are things that it's just like, hey, you're going to do. And one of it is with our kids is like, is reading now. Because I realize how much better of a person that could have made. me is like reading these different books when I was younger and so I've always

wanted to ask you that yeah well there's that there's also the I always kind of kicked myself because I wasn't I didn't give like great I didn't spend time with guys on life like if you were in my platoon we didn't talk about your life like oh here's a good savings plan you should look at buying a house like why you buying that freaking brand new Ford F350 super duty Harley Davidson you know 92,000 dollar truck with your re-enlistment bonus I didn't have have those conversations with dudes. Yeah.

You know, for me, it was like, we're, we're doing work. That's what we're doing. And I almost always felt like, you know, I don't want to, you know, like, dude, it's your life. You know what I mean? Like, hey, it's, hey, this, you know, he's young. He's going to get, he's out there getting after a freaking nice truck, dude. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, kind of that thing. And I just think that, I think that I didn't even recognize how much guidance guys could use at that phase. Yeah. That's what I think. But yes, I agree with that. For sure, that would have been awesome because, you know, I'm 40 and my wife and I just closed on our own, our first house, like together, which is crazy.

But hey, whatever. It's a nice house. We skip some steps along the way. You went straight to the keeper. Yeah. Which, thank you, by the way, for that opportunity. Sure. You and life.

But, yes, I agree with what you're saying. But from my perspective, looking back when I was 22 years old, 23 years old, guess what? Like, yeah, we could have some conversations about my finance and my life and hey, JP, why are you still living paycheck to paycheck, you know, and doing those things. But for you, from that leadership standpoint, I also know you're evaluating that leadership capital. And what you were putting us through in training to prepare us for war, which was much more, much more important than, hey, JP, all your finances are aligned. Because guess what? There wasn't a lot of us that thought myself or a lot of the guys were going to come back from that. And it's like, hey, if I can train these guys as hard as physically possible and the emphasis is training for war and also maintaining the high level leadership capital that you had that you legitimately could ask us to do anything in combat, anything in combat. And we were going to do it for you. We're going to do it for life. We're going to do it for Seth. We were going to do that. That was much more important than saying, hey, man, why did you just, you know, trade in your truck for a brand new Mustang? Like, I just like I, I, I, I know, I. I, I know.

understand what you're saying, but I'm going to respectfully push back on that one saying that you lay facet, did the absolute best thing that you possibly could have done. I was also severely institutionalized and by institutionalized, I mean like I was part of, I didn't know much about like I was in the teams, dude, as you know, like it wasn't same. Yeah, like we were all in the teams and when you're, that's what we're looking at. Like it was just the teams and then there's nothing else. The rest of the world is is like an unknown thing. that you don't really care about. And then also the other thing I was gonna say about,

you know, with your parents and going to church and not being mandatory, but not, but also at the same time, there's an expression I picked up from ECHO, which is like, oh, that's just how. Like, there's not even a why, that's just, like, that's just how we do things. Yeah.

You know, like, oh, like on Sunday, we're going to church. That's just how. Like, there's not even, it's you know when you this is how this is how we do it then that's all there is to it and so you don't even you don't even have the perspective to be like wait a second well why are we doing this don't even need an explanation that's just what we're doing you know uh there's a lot of things in the teams are like that like that's just that's just how that's just how it's going that's just what we're doing so there you go um definitely some things i will improve upon in my next life continues to talk about travel

Distribute broken glass nails and sharp rocks on roads to puncture tires. That's good information how to how to mess people up on water Communications a whole chunk of stuff about electric power and then finally We get back into this this thing that I think is Really pertinent to our lives as people Especially our lives in a leadership position in a leadership position in inside of an organization. So this section is called general interferences, general interference with organizations and production.

Basically, this is how do you sabotage a business or a team? Okay. Starts off with organizations and conferences. One, insist on doing everything through channels. Never permit shortcuts to be taken in order to expedite decisions. Like how many times is someone, I got to run out through the chain? Yeah, I got to put that through. That actually is going to go through the supply.

Like, that's such a destructive mode of operating. Number two, make speeches. Talk as frequently as possible and at great length. Illustrate your points by long anecdotes and accounts of personal experiences. Never hesitate. to make a few appropriate patriotic comments. Gosh. This has, this has wasted,

this has destroyed and wasted so much time in the world when people just start telling stories. It literally calls it out, long antidotes, and accounts of your personal experiences. This is freaking heinous, dude. Oh. Oh, look out for that one. Um, some layers there.

Yeah. And the thing is on the other side is like this is take all these things and think about what to do if you're trying to ruin something. And think about what you can do to not do this stuff. Yeah. Like, hey, don't make a bunch of speeches. No one cares about the freaking time you did this, that the other thing back in 1996. Like just don't say it. No one cares.

So be quiet. Number three, when possible, refer all matters to. committees for further study and consideration attempt to make the committees as large as possible never less than five oh and yet it happens all the time it's also a sign of someone that doesn't want to make a decision and I'll give you a little hint you don't have to make a big decision you can just make a little iterative decision you make a little iterative decision and say hey JP you know what go ahead try it report back to me tomorrow and see what kind of feedback you get boom done done we're done

Instead that I can either say that or I can say you know what J.P. Why don't you form up a small committee of people get together and discuss and come up with a proposal to me on how we can solve this entire problem? Like this is going nowhere and by the way I want a minimum of five people in there like it's just us never going to work. Bring up Bring up irrelevant issues as frequently as possible Okay, there you go Just so just keep your mouth shut. Haggle over precise

wordings of communications, minutes, and resolutions. Refer back to matters decided upon at the last meeting and attempt to reopen the question of the advisability of that decision. You know, it's terrible because we get to see a lot of this.

You know, we get to sit in a lot of meetings with a lot of clients and you get to see a lot of these behaviors take place. Advocate caution. There's a lot of quotes here in this. Advocate, quote, caution. Be quote reasonable and urge your fellow conferences to also be reasonable, reasonable,

and avoid haste, which might result in embarrassments or difficulties later on. Isn't it funny that in the military there's like a whole problem with being risk averse and people not want to take any risk and I don't want to look bad and all that stuff? And here's like an actual advice on how to sabotage a team is by making people. Hey, I don't know if you should do that, J.P. This stuff is so harsh. Be worried about the propriety of any decision. Raise the question of whether such action is contemplated lies within jurisdiction of the group

or whether it might conflict with the policy of some higher echelon. We've all heard that before. I don't know what the boss is going to think. Hey, you better think. You know what I mean? Just, well, is that, do you think we have the authority to make that decision? Next section is managers and supervisors. Demand written orders.

Misfunders, quote, misunderstand orders. Ask endless questions or engage in long correspondence about such orders. Quibble over them when you can. Do everything possible to delay the delivery of orders. Even though parts of an order. may be ready beforehand don't deliver it until it's completely ready isn't it interesting how that right there there's so many organizations that won't tell the team what's going on so they can start to prepare for whatever's coming

their way but they don't know everything so they don't say anything tell people what's going on don't order new working materials until your current stocks have been virtually exhausted so the slightest delay in filling your order will mean a shutdown order high quality materials which are hard to get if you don't get them argue about it warn that inferior materials will mean inferior work. Boy, you can hear this stuff all day, every day across the United States in businesses. In making work assignments, always sign out the unimportant jobs first.

See that the important jobs are assigned to inefficient workers of poor machines. Insist on perfect work in relatively unimportant products. Ooh. Send back for refinishing those which have the least flaw. Approved defective parts whose flaws are not visible and naked eye. How much time is wasted making something that will work perfect? It's going to work, man. Go with it.

Make mistakes and routing so that parts and materials we get sent to the wrong place and the wrong plant. When training new workers given incomplete or misleading instructions. To lower morale and with it, production, be pleasant to inefficient workers. Give them undeserved promotions. Discriminate against efficient workers. Complain unjustly about their work. Hold conferences when there is more critical work to be done. Oh, I like that one.

Hey, let's have a meeting. Multiply paperwork in plausible ways to start duplicate files. Multiply the procedures and clearances. Involved in issuing instructions paycheck and so on paychecks and so on see that three people have to approve everything where one would do Hello bureaucracy Apply all regulations to the last Isn't it weird? Isn't it weird when you think about people that think they're doing good? I mean let's face it We work at companies where there's no there's no one trying to sabotage

the the efficiency of the company and yet they're doing half of these things. At least, yes. At least half these things. That's why this is so important. Next one is office workers. Make mistakes in quantities and materials when you are copying orders, confuse similar names, use wrong addresses, prolonged correspondence with government bureaus, misfile essential documents. In making carbon copies, make one too few so that an extra copying job will have to be done. Tell important callers the Boss is busy or talking on another telephone hold up until the next mail collection And here's a big one spread disturbing rumors that sound like inside dope and they use the word dope in

1944 yeah inside dope I have to look up the etymology of the word dope Because for shooting it's it's your dope for your weapon But that's has the same con connotation as this does I wonder that comes from I'm look it up Now we get to the employees work slowly. Look, again, you just take the opposite of these. Like, don't work slowly. Work quickly. Make things happen.

Think out ways to increase the number of movements necessary on your job. Use a light hammer instead of a heavy one, try to make a small wrench do when a big one is necessary. Use little force where considerable forces need and so on. Oh, this is a good one. Contrive as many in a lot. to your work as you can this I was I was actually doing this today I was on this section And my wife came in to ask me like a random question I was just like yes darling yep

Let me look yep okay, here you go and I was just thinking how many how many times do we allow things to interrupt us when we should be working What kind of things have you set up? I for yourself that interrupt you, whether it's your phone dinging, your computer, emails tinging on. Like, what is it? You set that you sabotage yourself. Again, self-sabotage isn't this big psychological thing that we do because we don't want to succeed. I could have been a rock star, but I always self-sabot. No. You freaking turn your phone on and put it next to your chair when you should be working. That's what you do. Contrive as many interruptions to your work as you can. That's what you do when changing the material on which you are working as you would on a

lathe or a punch take needless time to do it if you are cutting shaping or doing other measuring work measure dimensions twice as often as you need to when you go to the laboratory spend a longer time than is necessary forget tools so you have to go back and get after them what's frustrating about what you're saying is there's a legitimate mindset and mentality behind This, don't rush me. I get paid by the hour. Oh, I know.

I remember, I saw a guy wearing that shirt one time. Oh, my gosh. Was he at the DMV? No. And then, I can't, where was I recently? I was on a trip. I was, oh, dang it, it's driving me crazy. It was, it was something with my travel,

whether it was like the rental, car or something and oh yeah I was dropping off the rental car and I was like I didn't have all my stuff ready and prep to get out of the vehicle like I try to have all that stuff and I came out I'm sorry he goes that not a big deal man I get paid by the hour oh I was just like but you know like I initially I got frustrated and then I I kind of like I felt bad for this guy because he thinks that's a he truly think that's an okay mindset to have he thinks it's acceptable he's sabotaging his life because he's not getting promoted right he's not the guy and I'll tell you what there's a couple taught that also yeah yeah you taught that there's a couple car

rental companies that are known for their customer service and like they will never say that to you no right and but that guy is not getting promoted he's sabotaging himself yeah by working as slowly as he can and not caring and yeah don't worry about it like it's a bummer I again I went from frustrated to I feel bad for this guy I know I really I really feel bad for this guy. Did you talk to him about it? You know, it was funny is I wanted to.

I really wanted to, but I, and I didn't because, you know, it would have been like unsolicited coaching or advice. Unsolicited advice. And I don't think it was the opportunity where it would have had won any impact. And, yeah, so. Yeah. Interesting. Unwanted advice.

Let's think about that, you know, for future reference, because I bet there's a way to tactfully give people like that kid, whoever this person was. They're stuck, man. Yeah. Like, they're stuck in that job for a long time. Yes. Until they figured out, which is probably going to take three to five years

to say like, oh, this kind of sucks. Yeah. I don't want to be doing this anymore. It's when it was when his environment gets, so painful that it causes him to reflect upon it and say, oh, I need to change some things in my life. So don't do that. It goes on here.

Even if you understand the language, pretend to not understand instructions in a foreign tongue. Pretend that instructions are hard to understand and ask to have them repeated more than once or pretend that you are particularly anxious to do your work and pester the foreman with unnecessary questions. Do your work poorly and blame it on bad tools, machinery, or equipment. complain that these things are preventing you from doing your job right this is you already alluded to this one earlier never pass on your skill and experience to a new or less skillful worker how many people are guilty of that and you're literally following the directives to

sabotage your organization when you keep information you never pass on your skill so now I feel like for not making you read about face when you were 20 years old I just kept it all. Yeah, that's exactly what you did. Snarl up administration in every possible way, fill out forms allegedly so that they will have to be done over, make mistakes, or omit requested information in forms. If possible, join or help organize a group for presenting employee problems to the management. See that the procedures adopted are as inconvenient as possible for the management involving the presence of a large number. of employees at each presentation, entailing more than one meeting for each grievance, bringing

up problems which they are largely imaginary and so on. Misroot materials and mix good parts with unusable scrap and rejected parts. And we're getting almost to the end here because this last section is called general devices for lowering morale and creating confusion. and it starts off. Give lengthy and incomprehensible explanations when questioned. It's the opposite of simple, clear, concise. Give lengthy and incomprehensible explanations.

Report imaginary spies or danger to the Gestapo or police. Letter C, act stupid. And this is the big one that you caught as a critical issue in America. It is be as irritable and quarrelsome as possible without getting yourself into trouble. That's sabotage that's happening in America right now, by the way. Misunderstand all sorts of regulations concerning such matters as rationing, transportation, and traffic regulations. Complained against Airzatz material which is like artificial materials. I'm not a hundred percent sure what they meant by that one In public treat access nationals or Quislings coldly

Quislings Quislings are people that support the invaders or support the enemy so like this would be the people in France That were supporting the Nazis and this word Quislings speaking of etymology normally I catch words I don't know or I don't I wonder where they come from. Quisling is one of them. It's named after a guy named Vidkun Quisling who is a Norwegian leader who is pro-Nazi and he led like the Nazi government and so they just hated him. They executed him in 1945. But the word this this book was written in 1944 and they were already using this guy from Norway, this political leader that like jumped sides to the Nazis, they were already using his name in the total pejorative. It's not capitalized, it's just quizlings.

Stop all conversation when Axis Nationals or Quizlings enter a cafe. Cry and sob hysterically at every occasion, especially when confronted by government clerks. Boycott all movies, entertainment, concerts, newspapers, which are in any way connected with quizzling authorities. and do not cooperate in salvage schemes, which means don't try and save anything. So there you go. There you go. A little information about sabotage.

I think it's there. Yeah. How did you come across that book? Was it a gift? Oh, good point. So I have a client that I worked with in Scotland. His name is Colin. And he sent me like six of these things.

It was like, hey, this is from a CIA manual. Except when he said it, I couldn't understand him because he mumbles. And a matter of fact, I just traded text with him. He said that the last time I talked about him on this podcast, I said that he mumbles. And he said, that wasn't cool. And I said, no, it wasn't cool. It was accurate. So now I'm doubling down, Colin.

I'm doubling down. The awesome thing about Colin is when I met him, you know, he was in sort of a mid-level manager position. and now he like is very successful that's awesome and has a bunch of rental properties and has several children and you know a happy family and just a great dude um great guy but he he he will send me stuff you know usually he he titles my text i get a text from i'll say frogman colon so and he's got a question for me usually that's true yeah well Colin i won't make fun of your mumble you can make fun of my stutter if you want to bring me out to scotland to work with the That's awesome.

Yeah, no, he's a very cool guy. Like, I think, I think this was in maybe like, oh, you know, I know what it was. It was when podcast 11 came out with Laif because Colin and I drove from Scotland to England. And we sat there in silence and listened to the podcast. That's incredible. So it was podcast 11. So that's 2015 or 2016. So that's like seven or eight years ago.

And he still texts me. So there you go. That's so cool. That's rad. Yeah, pretty cool. So thanks for the, thanks for the hint there, Colin. Appreciate it. I found the whole book, by the way.

You know, not just going to take some little text. But there it is. It's sabotaged, everybody. It's not just an album by Black Sabbath. It's not just a song by the Beastie Boys. It's a real thing. And it's there. And we have to pay attention to.

it and as always you got to pay attention not that people are sabotaging you which look that could be happening but first and foremost make sure that you are not the saboteur which means as always there's a really good chance that your biggest enemy is you which also means that you have the ability to defeat that enemy pretty easily So there you go. Yeah. All right. Echo Charles, speaking of trying not to get sabotaged,

speaking of trying to overcome, speaking of trying to win. Sure. You know, we're trying to win. Cross the board. Sure. Cross the board. Try.

Lots of, you know, various categories that we're trying to win in. We got the mats of justice. Sure. Right? Yeah. We got the workout room. Sure. Yeah.

We call it the gym. Healthy capability. Okay. Health and capability. Yeah. So what do we got? We got to get in order to do those things, we got to have fuel. Yes.

We don't want to sabotage ourselves. I know why we self sabotage, by the way. Yeah. Oh, you got the big answer. I got two of the main reasons. Okay. That's here. All right.

First one is you get distracted by short term payoff. And when I say payoff, that could be pleasure or relief. Here's the problem with your whole theory right now. The problem with your whole theory is. First off, I didn't go into the theory. The whole theory is the whole thing that you're saying right now. is that you get distracted by sure. That's not sabotage.

Sabotage is something you intentionally do. Sabotage is something you intentionally do. You don't intentionally decide to get distracted. You unintentionally put your phone by your computer and answer and check Instagram. Okay, so you see the difference? Yes. Continue.

Okay, so maybe distraction might have distracted you from the meat of it. In fact, I won't say you're distracted by short term payoff. I'm saying you choose the short term payoff. Okay. I say distracted a lot of time because, you know, the idea of keeping your eyes on the prize, right? That's like when you can clearly focus on your long-term goals and you don't get, quote-unquote, distracted by these short-term things that come about. Diet, you know, reading homework.

Got distracted by a donut. Yes. You're distracted not by the donut itself, but you're distracted by the short-term pleasure that the donut might bring. True. So anyway. So yes. So that short-term payoff sabotages your long-term payoff. It's still like an action that you partaking.

Okay. That's that's one of them. The second one is we kind of succumb to the pressure of that long-term goal. Like if you want a promotion, right, like, oh, I'm going to be this, the, I don't know, what's the promoted? CEO now. Yep. It's a big promotion. Yeah.

Then you're like, oh, damn, then now I get in the back of your mind. Like, dang, now I got to actually be the CEO. All right, bro. So when you go in the interview, brother, it's true. No, no. I retract my statement. I retract my harassment. Can I retract harassment?

Do you feel less harassment? Accepted. Accepted 100%. Because what you're saying is actually was my whole premise. Remember I was saying like, hey, you're going to do these things. Sure. And you're sabotaging yourself. And they're kind of unintentional.

You're kind of doing like, oh, well, I just, you know, I'm just going to do this right now. I'm just going to put my phone by my computer while I'm working. Yeah. You know? Because I might get the call. It's kind of unintentional, but it's sabotage. So I'm retracting my harassment, giving you the floor. You are correct.

Right on. So then you get the, and this is just something that's common, but you got to look out for it. You get the double where you do both. So like, let's say, oh, I got this big interview tomorrow and I might get the job, the promotion, right? So I'm feeling the pressure of the promotion. Do you mean the promotion? The promotion? Hell yeah.

So I'm feeling the pressure and. You mean the pressure? The pressure. So I have anxiety, right? Just a little bit anxiety. I'm worried, you know, that's normal, right? Because I got this big pressure scenario going out, going on tomorrow. So you know what I'm going to do?

I'm going to have a drink. Oh. Just for the short-term relief. Yeah. Because short-term pleasure is, one form of pleasure is relief. You know, like you can't breathe or something. You breathe a relief, right? So you have a drink.

And it's like good to you, right? So you get the shorter path. You have another one. You have another one. You have another one. You go to the interview. You jammed yourself. up, but in the back of your head, you're kind of like, I don't know if I was ready for that

anyway, kind of a thing. And that's because you lied to yourself about what the actual relief that you needed. Now, if you would have went and trained or had a badass workout, it could provide a better form of relief, which the long term is. Exactly right. So you're distracted by that short term pleasure, whether it's relief or just sheer pleasure, whatever. Yeah, that short term plus succumbing to the pressure, the press of the, of the, of the

actual like to be success you know you ever heard of the idea of fear of success you've ever heard of that before you know this is another thing i have a hard time like being like you know i was going to be a rock star and then you know they wanted me to come down in the recording studio you know at nine and i just got so licked up and i just didn't show up you know because i just i just i just i'm afraid of success yeah well i go understand tell me story where this shit makes sense The fear of success isn't the fear of that. Like, it's different. Okay, so fear of success is like, let's say I want to be a, I don't know, football player, right?

And you have this fear of success. And not everyone has it, but let's say you do have it. It's not that, oh, I'm scared of being a football player. It's more, shoot, now that I'm actually a pro football player, I have to perform as a pro football player. And I'm not ready for that pressure. That's kind of what it is. You really think there's people that are like that? I think so.

You really think there's people that played in junior football? you're high, they played in high school, they played in college, they've been playing this game their whole life. And now they get to the NFL and they're like, oh, no, I don't want to make it because I'm going to feel pressure. Yeah, no, I think it's way less common in football, yes, because of those reasons. But if you think of like a normal, what do you call hierarchy, like in the corporate ladder or something like this, where it's like, oh, yeah, tomorrow you're like, you're going to be the head of this whole, I don't know, I don't know, the whole region. This whole department.

Exactly right. Man, congratulations. And now you're feeling the pressure of being that. It's like, oh, I'd way rather be here. That way I'm not expected. Okay. The expectations are lower. Would it make more sense though if people said the fear of responsibility?

Yes, that would make sense. Yeah, because that's what I'm hearing you say. It's like, hey, you have responsibility to perform. You have responsibility to lead. You have responsibility to do all these things with those promotions. And people don't want that responsibility. And most people are self-aware enough to realize, oh, I'm not ready. not ready for that. And so that's why I think the fear of responsibility, but the fear of success

when, and again, success is all relative. Like, what success to you is going to be different to me, the jaco and everything else like that. I think that's a lie that people say when they fail to succeed because now they're justifying their failure. I'm like, man, I didn't, you know, I didn't want to be that anyway. Yeah, I didn't really want to be a seal. Really? You sacrificed how many, like, I mean, you know, guys that are going through, like, you know, I just, I don't know, I don't, I don't believe in the fear of success, I would align with you and say a fear of responsibility. I agree with you. And the fear of responsibility comes from most likely a self-awareness of like, oh, I'm not

prepared. Yeah. Or they don't want it. Dude, it's- Which is okay. It's a burden. To actually admit that you don't want those things. I was at Sail Team One. I was a new guy at Silt-Team 1.

A guy's walking through the locker room and he's like, oh, yeah. And I was like, what happened? He goes, I just made E5, Master Chief as far as I'm concerned because he didn't want, he He was just going to stay there, E5 Mafia. You're not really responsible for anything except for whatever, the boat motors or the weapons or the radios, but you're not responsible for the op or anything like that. So you're just kind of cruising. And that's where he wanted to be.

There's people. There's all kinds of people like that. Good for them. That's cool. Like you said, JP, if you say, hey, look, man, I just want to stay here at this level. I like being in charge of this small team. I don't want to step up. I don't want to be going to the board meetings or whatever.

You just, I'm cool where I'm out. That's perfectly fine. Yeah. That's perfectly fine. That, that, if you're bombing, you know, an interview and you say, well, I always self-sabotage because I'm afraid of being successful, you should say what JP said, which is, well, I bomb interviews because I actually don't want to get promoted because I don't want to,

I don't want to take that extra responsibility. We actually knew guys in the still teams that's like purposely failed. Oh, yeah. Their advancement exams because they did not want the responsibility of becoming an E6, legitimate. Even though they'd make more money to them, it didn't matter. They're like, nope. And to the point where one of these guys, and he's a good dude, one of these guys finally got pulled aside by the leadership and like, hey, if you fail this exam one more time, how your tenure, you can get kicked out of the Navy.

They're like, we know what you're doing because he's so smart. So smart. We like, we know what you're doing. Guess what? Takes test, like almost aces it and does really well. and it was because he never wanted that upper spot. I think I've talked about it on one of the many podcasts that we've done together or it's on another another one or I know I definitely share this with clients all the time. I didn't want to be promoted in the SEAL teams.

All I wanted to do was just be that E5 mafia guy. I wanted to be a sniper and a machine gunner. That's all I wanted. Legitimately all I wanted. Now there was a few reasons behind that. One was like what you're talking about before is like before, I had tried to step up and lead and do things. And I had older guys like bad leaders just completely crush me,

completely crush me. And I'm like, all right, cool. I'm not doing that anymore. Like, unless you're a glutton for punishment, how many times are you going to continue to try to step up and lead and do things? You know, not going to. And so I didn't, you know, and then I also had some personal insecurities from being in speech therapy

and growing up with a speech impediment. And, you know, it used to get picked on in school because I would stutter and mix up my words. How did you overcome that? If you, like, go to speech therapy actually helped you? had me in, no, the speech therapy. Your dad beat it out of you. No.

My, you know, my, I actually remember my dad pulling me aside one time. I was in junior high and I had saw some of my friends from elementary school and we were at the mall. And, you know, so I was in speech therapy all throughout. How bad was your stutter? It was really bad. What matters did you stutter on? I don't remember.

I would, I still do it to this day. I mix up words. I make up words. So that's a cool trick I have. And I've actually done that like at a speaking engagement. And Leif pulled me aside. He goes, you know that word? It's not a real word.

I'm like, what am I saying? He goes, come under pile. Come under pile. And I can't even think of the actual word right now because like Leif like help me correct it out. You feel on here right now to make up some words. Dude, that guy is and I want to meet him one day. I want to go to one of his shows.

It would be awesome. Anyways. So before we digress down that path. And so did you hear the story about Jack Daniel Hill and me and Theo? probably I go to Nashville for a gig remind me to come back to this I go to Nashville for a gig and I text Theo and I'm with Jack Jack's like escorted oh yeah yeah I remember this and so like it's me Jack and Theo hanging out for like we we were just hanging out in the hotel lobby Theo is where are you at and I go I'm here and he goes I'll be there 15 minutes he just

rolled down we stood in this we sat down this hotel lobby for like almost two hours How did Jack not pass out from laughing? He was, it was. Because Jack also has one of the most amazing last ever. Yeah. It was just insane. You can, I, if I would have recorded this, it would have been like the Netflix special the year for the century for Theo.

It was just freaking hilarious. But part of it was because it was so off the record. It was just a lot. That's what I like. I like Theo stuff. Some of it, I'm like, I can't believe you just said that, which it brings me back to honestly being in a platoon. I think that's why I like his stuff so much because you just hear some stuff. You're like, that is something actually who would have been seen with a platoons. So just crazy.

And then again, he's also so intelligent like team guys that he can actually listen with intent and then articulate things at a level that you're like, this, oh, this is why he's as successful as he is. The weird thing about it, though, is, you know, these comedians, which I didn't realize until I started like knowing like Rogan and stuff that that they write the stuff and they like prepare it and then they go do it over and over again and they rehearse it in front of an audience which is what the smaller gigs are and then they do and so it's all prepared so then you think well maybe they're not as cool as you think they are but then when you get with those guys with the old with rogue like they're freaking hilarious where there's no preparation you know what

I mean it's not like that's that's a performance but that's not their only way of being hilarious. They're also hilarious just in life. Yeah, but it also becomes part of like what you focus on and, you know, what the amount of time and the reps that you put in. When I did my very first gig for Eschlawn Front,

it was rehearsed. You know, I did that rehearsal for you. Yeah. And Lafe over Skype. And I had been, I was doing six to eight hours a day of preparing that one hour keynote for weeks and weeks.

And literally like, you know, and so just to be able to prepare it, to do it for you guys so that you guys give me a thumbs up to go actually do the in-person gig. And when I did it, it was absolutely rehearsed. Like everything I knew exactly what I was going to say. And then for a while, that's exactly how it was. And now is to the point six and a half, almost seven years later, which is crazy.

It's like, I don't actually, I don't need a slide deck. I don't need anything. I can go sit down. I can work with a client. I can do a keynote, half-day workshop, full-day workshop with no slide deck and be able to share stories, work through problems and do it all because, you know, you. It's what we do. And I think that's where those guys get, they get to that level where it's just, it's who they are.

Yeah. So what stories you're going back to? Okay. Yeah. Speech impediment. So my parents had me in speech therapy and it helped to learn how to like learn to like learn to articulate certain things and read things and process them a certain way. And it was awesome.

But you know, my parents were just, my parents were awesome about it. And I remember I was in junior high and I got super, you know, just embarrassed and intimidated. by some of the kids that I've seen. Again, I was super small, skinny, short kid, and they're all, like, they're all kind of blown up in junior high, and they're all taller, and I was talking with some of my friends. And I just remember my dad pulled me aside. He's like, hey, is everything okay?

And I said, yeah, he goes, you didn't make eye contact to any of them. And, you know, and he was, it was awesome. He was just very gentle with asking me, like, hey, is everything okay? You know, and you didn't make eye contact. and it was a coaching opportunity that he had with me. I was like, hey, when you talk to people, you need to be making eye contact. And here's why it's important. I still remember.

I remember exactly where we're at in the sunrise mall, standing in front of Zoomies. Like, I remember that conversation is a core memory because my dad took the time to like ask me a question. He listened to what I had to say. He gave me feedback. He coached me. He helped me. And we talked about it.

And it was cool because I know also the intent. My dad cared about me. He really, obviously my parents care about me and they love me, but he really cared about me enough to to take the time to coach me and teach me and tell me about it. And so I was aware of that. And then in high school, it was like, yeah, whatever. But it was when I got in the military. It was when I learned I actually had to talk in front of people and talk to people.

And especially if you're going to be in the SEAL teams, you know, you have to be able to communicate. Well, okay, it's the same concept as when I went through SEAL training. I had to shut things off, literally shut things off in my brain. I'm claustrophobic and have a fear of drowning. So going through steel training makes how much sense? Like legitimate. Like if we're in a swimming pool and people start roughhousing, I get out. It makes me super anxious.

Really? How did you get through freaking pool cop? Legitimately had to shut it off. Like legitimately to shut it off in my brain and just say, you know what? I've been trained. And so one, I trusted God. 100% with everything because it was my full belief that this is what God had designed me to do with my life.

Accurate assessment. Yeah. And so there was like zero doubt that that's what I was supposed to do. Yeah, but he's not always going to be able to give you oxygen down there. Well, he gave me the ability to learn to train enough where I had the skill set to make it through all that stuff without failing. I didn't fail anything in pull comp. So when you had this speech impediment, where do you do?

stutter, would you, when did you overcome it? What grades? Or was it like instant? Was it like one day you just figured it out? Working an additional in front. But you didn't stutter when, when you and I worked together, I never heard you like stutter? No, because it was game time.

If I was speaking in front of seals or teaching and instructing, it was game time. Now, a normal conversation, I'll stutter sometimes and I'll mix up my words. And then if I get frustrated or embarrassed, then it gets a little bit worse. And but when it came to like, hey, we're in a platoon or I was, you know, running trading with you. It was just a, it was a mindset shift. Just like going through pool comp and buds, it was like, hey. Do you have any videos of you as a kid stuttering? Because I want to see them.

We might be able to find them, I'm sure. It's just, it's really hard for me to picture you stuttering. Yeah. It's, it's like I said, I've never, never heard you do it. I've worked with people that stuttered before. And it was like, you know, it's real, obviously, obvious. Yeah. Now I would say mine wasn't as bad as, like when you're thinking

as someone who's what about when you, what about when you were in seventh grade or whatever? What about the seventh grade? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. But my parents were awesome with, you know, just, you know, taking that pressure off and, you know, hey, take a breath.

Did you hear the podcast echo and I did about the monster experiment? I'm sure I have. They took the kids, they took kids that had no speech impediment. And told them hey, you've got this slight speech impediment. It's probably going to get worse and sure enough They developed speech impediments and they got bad my parents did the opposite they took people that actually had stutters and said hey oh that thing other don't worry about that it's there's actually enough it's normal in your development. It'll go away. Yeah, and it went away. Yeah And everything in between and those those kids that they did this too sued them and got millions of dollars back in the day before everyone sued everyone. So that's so yeah. Yeah, that's crazy. No my parents are the opposite. I'm like, hey, man, it's actually not that bad.

Hey, nobody notices. Hey, if you, if you're starting to miss. You sound like an idiot. That's why I was joking. I said, like your dad beat it out. Every time you studied it, you get you. No, it was the exact opposite. My parents were so,

were so awesome about it. And, you know, just never made me feel insecure about it. So they made it to where it wasn't an issue. Like, at Ashlandfront, when someone was real nervous before, like at the muster, I'm always just like, oh, dude, you're going to do great. In my mind, I might be thinking like, oh, this is a trade wreck.

all the board, you know? Well, you got to just say like, oh, dude, you're ready. And of course, they go out knocking out of the park because they're like, oh, okay, I'm good to go. As opposed to saying, like, I don't know if you're ready for this. That's when people fall apart. At what point does anybody think that's going to make anything better for somebody ever? Yeah, that's not a good plan.

I don't know. At what point, like, does you say, it's people that are, people that are unaware, people that don't understand other people are like, dude, you're not ready right now. I mean, this could be before a wrestling match. This could be before a jihitsu tournament. This would be before an MMA fight. This could be before a speech.

Like anything that's going to hurt someone's confidence before they go and actually execute. There's no point. You're hurting that. You need to give them some confidence. And good luck. Yeah, dude, you're ready. Go kick ass.

That's what I've always told Aiden for wrestling. Like, hey, you're ready. Go have fun. Make him pay. Make him pay. Like that's, you know. I like how we went from Go have fun to make him pay. Yeah, I know.

Well, that is instantly. Make him pay, you know. But we're also talking about a combat sport, like, you know. And it's awesome. Like Aden's mindset is like in reality, it's like no matter what you say, hey, guess what? That is factual and it's true. You are ready. You have all the knowledge, all the training you be able to go out there and execute.

Now, whether you're able to execute those things or not, I mean, that's going to be, you know, your ability to actually execute them out there. But you're ready. Go have fun. Make him pay. There you go. All right. Speaking of wrestling, speaking of getting after it, we're going to need fuel. Real quick.

Oh, oh, we're going back. What did you say you had two. No, no, no. I agreed with you about the successful or sorry, fear of responsibility. But I think a lot of times when people think of success, they kind of lump, they lump everything together. Well, in order for you to be successful, it requires a good amount of responsibility. Yeah, exactly. This is sort of like when Jordan Peterson's like, oh, you know, men have all the success.

And he's like, well, if you think men that are successful. Like sitting you know with their feet up and not doing anything. It's like no those men that are quote unquote Successful actually have a immense amount of pressure they're working freaking 80 hours a week they never get to rest They're freaking recording podcasts at nine o'clock 10 o'clock at night on a whatever On their daughter's birthday on their on their on their anniversary Happens to me might as well you see what I'm saying so these things happen. Yes, exactly right So when the point is it's all lumped in together You know, where someone's like, oh, basically if I get this position or of six, if I get into this position of success, then I got to do successful stuff.

And I don't know if I'm ready for all that. I don't know if I got what. It takes kind of an idea. I think that's it. And I have heard of this that some people, they're scared of like, oh, shoot, if I get all this success, now I have more to lose, you know, kind of a thing. Yeah. I'm calling. If someone out there feels like that, please come tell me.

Yeah. Because I'm kind of, anyone that told me like, you know, I was just afraid I'd have so much, so much to lose. Like, whatever, bro. Yeah. Tell me you wouldn't roll the dice. Yeah, yeah. For sure. And be like, I got to keep it.

Yo. Of course. I don't think I've ever heard anyone ever say like, hey, I have a fear of success. I've heard of like people say like, oh, that person sabotages themselves because it's like they have a fear of success. I've never heard anyone say it as an excuse ever in real life. But anyway, I feel like that's how it works. But then again, I don't know, because I'm just me. You see what I'm saying?

Then you have no fear of success, apparently. No. He's over there getting after it. I got my feet up over here. Collecting. Over there, pressing record. Oh, man, it's hard. It's hard for a brother.

All right. Atjogofuel.com. I'll tell you what I am doing, lifting. Yeah. Conditioning. 100%. Rolling the juice. Back in the game.

Back in the for a little bit. Yeah. It's good to be back in it. Well, technically, I was never really out. I was just like, you know, I was, oh, I'll catch this one. I'll go here. I mean, maybe I'll skip this, you know, it's like that, but now it's like back in the road. You know how you have the routine.

Yeah. Where you like, you don't be like, oh, wait, I haven't gone to do this. It's in the rotation. You know, it's in the rotation. It's in the rotation. So, you know, you catch a little more in it right now. Back in the rotation. So yes, it's important, man.

It's important for success and just for everyday life. You know, yeah, all this stuff. We do need fuel. What's the new hotness right now? Hydrate. Hydrate all day. Joggle hydrate. I'm drinking that like crazy right now.

Yeah. It's freaking taste. delicious. You can feel it. Like when you're, and you know, well, you guys both know how much I sweat.

It's a lot. I need to replenish. Get to hydrate. It's freaking outstanding. Well, yeah. It saved me last night. I trained at my buddy

Anthony Crox Gym. Mm-hmm. One of our black belts under Formiga opened up his own gym. Where is it? It's in Crum, Texas, close to the Dallas, Fort Worth area called Eclipse,

Jiu-Clixto. Eclipse. Yeah. Go get some. And so, yeah, Anthony there. And,

you know, it's awesome. It's a big open like warehouse industrial type of like space. And he already outgrew his first location. Hasn't even been a year. Got to the new place last night was their first official like day in the new locations from myself, Steven Little Josh Ralsberger. We went up there to go train.

And I had one of the packs. I felt like a jerk because I didn't bring one for the guys. I just was run out of the house, grabbed one, was drinking it before training and and then during training. And it legitimately saved me last night. You can do it. You know that Texas heat's roll. in right now man and I was just like I am thankful that I had that and then getting off the

plane today as well like there you go after travel it should be an SOP for everybody yeah because you're going to feel that fatigue from just basic travel boom two grams of D ribos natural sweeteners it's just freaking good to go vitamin C vitamin B6 vitamin B12 magnesium like it's just good to go it's what you need check that out get yourself some get yourself some of this too right here Some of that real energy. That go energy. Yeah, go energy. Get yourself some of that.

Joccofuel.com. You can get that, you can get the milk, you get immunity, joint warfare, you can get the stuff at Vitamin Shop, GNC. You can get out Wawa, bottom right corner by the way. Yeah. GNC, we're in the military commissaries. We're in A-Fees now. Well, we're not there yet, but we just, we're going into A-Fee's. So everyone, all you, all you troopers serving right now around the world, we got to, we got an A-feas.

So you can get in there and get some overseas and everywhere else. Haniford's dash stores in Maryland, Wakefern, shop right, H-E-B. You know where in H-E-B. What's up, Tejas? You know where in H-E-B. How far is H-E-B from your house, your new house? Don't even know yet. I don't even know that yet.

Damn. Blasphemy. I know. I agree. Well, there's one close by because you are in Texas. I know. Well, Central Market needs to get in the game because they're a family. They're under the H.E.B. brand.

Oh. And that's, yeah, Central Market needs to get in the game. Okay. With the Jock Fuel products. We'll talk to H.E.B. about that. Yeah. We'll see what's up. Yeah. Central Market would be that's closer than an H.E.B.

Okay. But we are in H.E.B. We'll get into Central Market. Sorry about that. We'll get in. We're in Meyer. Harris Teeter. Lifetime Fitness.

Shields. You know we're into the Shields. You need anything you need in Shield. Shields is incredible. It's insane. You know that one of our clients, Groundworks? Yeah. One of the owners, Keith, awesome guy.

He owned one of the locations that was acquired from Groundworks, still helps with building everything. His grandfather started Shields. Shields is legit. It's so awesome. Yeah. And you know what else? We're in right now? Just little gyms, little CrossFit gyms, little Jiu Jitsu gyms.

If you got a CrossFit gym, if you got a Jiu Jitsu gym, you got any kind of gym, And you want to sell JockoFuel there? Email J.F Sales at joccofuel.com. We'll get you in the game. So there you go, joccofuel.com. Speaking of, what did you say, the hotness? Did you say that? Yeah, the new hotness.

Yeah, okay. I'm not going to say that. That's from, speaking of new cool stuff that's out, origin, USA.com, R.TX gear. Roll, train, execute. Yeah. Basically, it's like workout gear. Yeah, yeah. moisture wickie you got your shit yeah yeah yeah remember dope huh we used them the um did you get yours no

day oh all right okay it's all good you like long sleeve not really i like everything yeah i'll wear a long sleeve i'll wear a short sleeve i'll wear some extra long sleeves but i ain't got well then i will wear i will wear a long sleeve you got an extra long sleeve yep this is one of the first things that i want to do when when we started looking at the next product line was to make you know wicking lightweight workout gear it took a long time to get it made here in America to make it here in America to find the right materials so but we did it we pulled it off RtX gear it's out uh we also got hunt gear we got the jihitsu geese what else rash guards rash guards for sure all that new geese yeah the nanopurl that is insane yeah i order one for myself and aden and even aiden's like dude

Yeah. It's just awesome. I want to make some kind of like a, like if you ever have to wear a suit. Sure. Like make a suit from that. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I've seen suits.

I've seen suits that legit like high-end suits that look like kind of like they could be made with GEE material. I've seen suits like that. Yeah, that would be legit. The whole Denver SWAT team just got, just ordered the new, uh, nanopro. Yeah. Yeah. Our boy Jesse. Yeah.

He got back on full-time Devere Swat. All those guys train. And he's like, I guess I'm trained in Jiu-Jitsu. So they all ordered them. It was pretty cool. We used half of our material to make Jesse a ghee. Yeah. Well, and for all the guys on the Denver SWAT team.

Shout out to those guys. There you go. 100% made in America, by the way. Because we're in an economic war right now. Yeah. With China. They're coming. They're trying.

They're trying to take our manufacturing. away. That's what's happening. They're watching our culture rip itself apart, by the way. They're taking our manufacturing overseas, taking jobs, having us put our money into their pockets. They have a long-term strategy. That's what they're doing. We're fighting it. And that's one of the ways we're fighting it. OriginUSA.com. Help the security of this country. Do not put money into the communist hands. all right it's true

also if you want to represent on this path discipline equals freedom it's one of them good like all these good all these cool you know jaco stuff this is where you get them

jocco store dot com it's true jacco stuffs plural yeah yeah a lot of stuff's on there also there is what we call the shirt locker you came up with that

no you approved someone else came up with someone someone on Twitter yeah you would know about Twitter anymore would you yeah you know Did you get locked out again? I well, you know, that's not.

He freaking, he freaking, what'd you do? He got a hat. Yeah, he got a hat. It happens to the best of us. Nonetheless, I'm back. And so it's the shirt locker. So I'm saying. So the shirt locker is a subscription scenario.

You get a new shirt every month. Good designs. I gotta admit something to you. Yeah. This past month, I kind of went like, what do you call when you brush up against the guard rails of whatever, of whatever, you know, but there's guard rails of this and that. And maybe the, you call it. design was slightly more controversial than it should have been what was it

uh don't fuck it up it didn't say the f uc k on it though it said it just said f with the thing what's the thing the a shtricks no no no the um it's like oh and k there's no even k okay but whatever that's just that was my thought process did you get some pushback yeah on that one but hey is it the same amount of pushback you got for the one of like let's get stoned or uh what's a stoner oh yeah oh yeah well it's very Early what's today like the six. Yeah, that one was that was my direction too. I was like, hey, make this,

because that's from a story from the Vietnam seal. Yeah, right. And it was written on his stoner. Someone had carved into the, into the stock of his stoner, everybody must get stone. How freaking epic and cool is that? So I said, bro, put a stoner 63, put smoke coming out and have that shit smell

and spell it some hippie lettering. Everybody must get stoned. So it had, you know, you know, drug illusions in it. It had firearms. It was just like everyone's all controversial. Yeah, I do wonder about that. Because look, I agree with you where if you know the story, you're like, oh, hell yeah, that's a good idea.

I would totally wear the shirt. Doesn't mean I smoke weed all the time or whatever. Or you know, whatever the objections for you. Whatever the objections may be. Yeah. So I think this is one of those ones as well. Like, don't fuck it up. That story is like, and I actually listened to that one because I,

have it like on an excerpt but I'm trying to what don't fuck it up yeah yeah that that whole story yeah like with stoner and stuff yeah so I'm like well that's freaking sick and I and I didn't make it all loud and dumb you can it's like like do you know that story which one so we you know how we had like the board with everyone's little picture on it yeah in the task unit space yeah and so when stoner took over the task unit yeah and then he put all of his guys is the new guys that were in and you know, reassembled the chain of command and everything. And he took my picture and he just elevated it above his picture.

And then he put a little, like a little voice or a little, what's it called? A little cartoon thing. And it just said, don't fuck it up. Nice. Then I was telling him.

You know they had me in a different task unit originally when we came back from Ramadi? Yeah, they spread everybody. Not working for Seth. And I went into the Massachusetts office. This is like right away and I was like, saw it up there.

And I was like, just moved it. I literally moved it into like working back for him again. And then I ended up really going to buzz and the trade it because of surgery and everything. Yeah, the shirt locker is awesome. My father-in-law, Jeff, who listens to this podcast, he shares it with everybody he works with, which is awesome. I love, like Amanda and I will get a text message from my father-in-law, my mother-in-law, Debbie, and we're in this little group text. And every, every time he gets his new shirt.

It's him wearing the new shirt, smiling, and we get the picture. It's awesome. Hopefully you send you this latest one and doesn't say, hey, you know. I'm offended. I'm offended by Echo Charles's ideas. You've met my in-laws. That ain't going to happen. That story that you've been like how you, and there's a lot more to that story too,

that you told me anyway, you're like, and then you'll even still kind of use that saying where it's kind of like when you see someone building up maybe too much confidence and you'll be like, oh, no, you're going to do great. You're going to do great. just don't fuck it up there's a lot to that and it was good I thought but if no one knows that

they're like oh what I'm not gonna wear a shirt with swear words this is dumb not offensive but necessarily like I don't want to represent that kind of a thing and I get that so maybe it might be worth like having some little card with an explanation that would be actually pretty cool where a card with a little QR code

on it they can scan it has a video explaining it sends them to the podcast that has the explanation I don't know It's good advice. It is good advice. All right. So there you go.

I guess. Sure. Yeah. Look into that one. Jocco store.com. Subscribe to this podcast and the other podcasts that we do. Jocko Underground. Jock Underground.com.

Check that out. We do about a podcast a week there with podcast adjacent material. Kind of directed at your individual life. But we answer a bunch of questions on there too. It's a life. advice on that one. That one's the kind of where like, because we release it every Monday or Monday like at midnight in the morning, right? So like if you go to work on Monday, the thing is uploaded. Good to go. Oh yeah, you listen to that on the way to work or something like this?

Bruh, life advice all day for the week. There you go. YouTube, subscribe to the YouTube channel, subscribe to Origin USA YouTube channel, subscribe to Jocco Fuel YouTube channel, go to Psychological Warfare, get flipside canvas.com from Dakota Meyer. I written a bunch of books, get them. Get them for your kids Best Kids book ever Is it my am I allowed to say that? Can I make that kind of judgment? I just did I would say yes I'm allowing you too I'm allowing it yes

Yeah it's just that's the way Please get those books for the kids you know honestly They are they are so helpful to so many kids Please do it Eschelon Front we have a leadership consultancy we solve problems Through leadership If you want JP to come and work with your company.

You want me to come and work with your company? If you want one of us on the team at Eshlamfront to come and work with your company, go to Eshlamfront.com. And you can see what you can get. You can also come to one of our live events. I think next thing we have is the battlefield at Little Bighorn, August 8 through the 10th. We got some slots open if you want to come. It's powerful to go up there to secure those lessons.

I actually understand what happened on that battlefield. There's so many mistakes that were. were made and you can learn from them. I can't wait for that. I'm gonna be there. Okay, awesome. Yeah. And then, yeah.

Yeah, that thing is powerful. You can also see the good things that happened. Yeah. Because there was a lot of good moves, good tactical moves that were made, mostly by the Native American warriors. Um, so come and check that out. FTX. Yeah, we have the FTX.

What's your next FTX? Uh, we have one day individual FTX is coming up, which is awesome. We sold out a, of, um, the two-day ones they were just a couple weeks ago actually geez yeah a month ago anyways um so we have one-day ftXs it's going to be in the Dallas fort worth area Monday September 18th Wednesday September 20th and Friday September 22nd so it's just one day it helps with people that can't commit to two full days you know so you have a day of travel two full days you know and then maybe a day of travel on the back in depending on you know so that's a lot of people couldn't

commit to that price point and so it's the price point is very comparable to a muster and we decided that we would try out one day FTXs to allow people to come experience in FTX. You know, we actually have a handful of our clients that have been entertaining FTCs that are actually coming out to it. That couldn't ever commit to a full two day. And they're like, oh, I can go to one day FTCS for sure. And so somebody could travel in the night before, get a full day of training. Now, depending on where they live, they could possibly get a flight out that same night, probably, most likely. actually, actually most likely out of Dallas Fort Worth, back wherever they need to be.

And so it's a, it's a small time commitment where you're getting the full impact of the field training exercises that we run because most of the time when we do it with a with a client, it's just one day of field training exercise. Leading up to the training, they're going to have videos through Extreme Ownersh Academy platform that they can take that will give them all of the leadership principles that we teach ahead of time. And then that way when we show up the training, you're hit, hit the ground running, full day of training, and then you can get back to your work,

get back to your team, your family. So those are coming up. You know, they go to our website. They can check out and get registered. I mean, the battlefield, the FTX, the council, the musters, they all sell out. These are going to sell out, especially with the one day price point option. And if you've gone to a muster and you're like, hey, what's the next step? Come to an FTX.

Come to a battlefield. Like, that is the absolute next step for sure. Yeah. Yeah, the FTX is, if you don't know what they are, you go out in the field. We have these high-speed laser weapons. We train you on the basic tactics, but it is what, it's the tool, it's the medium that we used to transform leaders in the SEAL teams. Put them in these high-stress, confusing, complicated leadership scenarios where you have to learn to lead, you have to learn to follow, you have to learn to step up, you have to learn to detach from your emotions, you have to learn to cover me. Keep things simple prioritize next year you have to learn those things and when you don't do them that leaves a mark

Yeah, it leaves a mark it leaves an impact on your brain and it's a powerful way to learn So come and check those things out Escalonfront.com and you just mentioned the the extreme ownership academy Extreme ownership.com This the mission our mission is to give this information to as many people as possible and one of the ways that we figured out to do that was by having online courses So go to extreme ownership.com. You can take all kinds of classes about these principles. And this is like having magic. It's like having magic.

It's like being able to perform magic tricks to solve problems. It's like jujitsu. It's like if you are playing basketball and you're Michael Jordan. and you're playing one-on-one against a 12-year-old. You're slamming dunks. Yeah, right? Because you learn how to interact with other people. You learn to lead.

Learn how to adjust your life and make it better. So, Extremeownership.com. And then if you want to help service members active and retired, you want to help their families, you want to help Gold Star families. Check out Mark Lee's mom, Mama Lee. She's got a charity organization. If you want to donate or you want to get involved,

go to America's Mighty Warriors.org. She helps out so many people. And it's just an incredible woman. And then on top of that, we've got Heroes and Horses.org. That's Micah Fink. I actually just talked to Micah Fink. So I got the report from the field. I'm like, oh, Micah, what you doing?

He's like, oh, I'm driving back from Wyoming. I just got done branding 1,300 cows. And before that, I was in South Dakota delivering 400 chickens to a reservation where they were out of food. What have you been up to, Jocko? He says, hey, you might want to come try that jiu-jitsu stuff out on cows. Yeah. See how well it works. I was like, Roger.

So that's what Mike O'Fink does. Actually, he just went in the field, too. He just took his class out. They take classes out. They take veterans, first responders up into the wilderness so that they can get lost and they can get found. Heroes and Horses.org. If you want to connect with us on the interwebs, JP is at JP to know. Two ends, two L's.

Echoes at Echo Charles. I'm at Jocka Wink. Just watch out for the algorithm. That's a big sabotage machine. That's what it is. JP, thanks for coming. Appreciate it. My brother.

It's been awesome. Heck yeah. Thanks to all the military personnel are out there around the world right now. Thank you for putting our safety above your own. And also thanks to our police, law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service, all first responders. Thanks to you as well. You put our safety above your own. We're indebted to you for it.

and to everyone else out there. Just watch out. Watch out. Because there can be sabotage happening. And sabotage can be tough to spot. It's kind of the ultimate form of the indirect attack. Very hard to identify, but it can be happening and it can take you down. And it's hardest to identify when the sap tour.

is you when it's you that's talking too much when it's you that's bringing up irrelevant issues when it's you that are haggling over details that don't matter when it's you that are holding unnecessary meetings making careless mistakes working too slow spreading rumors not sharing skills when it's you that are acting stupid the saboteur do not allow that don't be a quizzling a traitor a betrayer of the cause no be loyal be competent be capable be a leader and until next time this is jp and echo and jocco out