Jocko Podcast - 409: You're Only Squandering Your Whole Future and All Your Potential

Episode Date: October 25, 2023

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This is Jocko Podcast number 409 with Echo Charles and me Jocker Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. Sometimes I want to take you by your shoulders and shake you. You've got to open your eyes. How long will it take you? Running through life blind, what a waste. Shut down and neutralized.

What a case? What happened? What happened to you? What's going on? What's going on with you? someday becomes yesterday your life goes and crawls away you're walking hand in hand with a death trip

you can't even feel the power in its grip and those right there are the lyrics from a song called wreckage or wreckage there's a hyphen in there by a group called the Rollins band off the Lifetime album which was the band, Rollins Band,

led by Henry Rollins, the singer from Black Flag, one of my favorite bands as a kid, especially, by the way, Black Flag, My War, Side 2. That was on my record player for, I don't know, probably 18 months to two years straight.

That song, though, from the Rollins Band album, had a big impact on me, on me. And that album had a big impact on me, It came out in 1987. It was sort of one of the bricks in the path, I guess you might say. You know the Pink Floyd song? It's another brick in the wall. Well, I've been putting bricks in the path.

This album, this song definitely put some bricks in the path for me. And it's amazing really that people can go through life blind, how they can slip down the slope and get neutralized and be caught in the ground. and be caught in the grip of something without even feeling the power that's controlling them. And I think Echo Charles, you recently recognized you were being a little bit neutralized, you were being inhibited by alcohol.

And when you recognize that, you took control. You squared some things away. And I think that your story over the past few months and your thoughts and your methodology for how you executed might help a lot of people. So let's get into it. What is your history with alcohol? Where does it start?

When you were a kid, what about your parents? Was there alcohol in the house? What's going on? Yeah. So there was alcohol in the house, but we hardly ever saw it. So it was like, so my mom never really drank at all.

But then my dad was like the super social dude. So he would like, he'd like after work, he'd always bring us with him. And, you know, for the most part. Yeah, like after work, he'd go to these beach parties with his friends. And they weren't huge parties. They were just hanging out with your friends, basically. And yeah, he'd drink and stuff. And you figure, how old is your dad at this point?

Probably in his 30s, maybe? Yeah, so you figure, well, he was 33 when we were born. So, you know, 40s. So he's like my age-ish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Going down to the beach. Yeah. Having a couple beverages with the voice.

Yeah, which, you know, there's no. You know, we grew up. quiet. So it's like that's just how. So it's not like it wasn't a big deal. You know, kids running around and we weren't the only kids. So, you know, at the pavilion, you know, by the beach or whatever. So and my dad was the kind of where like, um, you couldn't tell he was drunk. You know how some people you can tell you can tell. They just night and like, they switch and you can tell they're drunk in whatever way. Their behavior. Well, let's break that down a little bit. Some people get angry. Right. They want to fight everybody. Some people get silly. They're laughing at everything. Some people with slurler. They get all

slurry and kind of lose their motor skills. I can tell you, when I used to drink a lot, I would just be more of me. Yeah. I would just be like an amplified me. Yeah. And that's, it's fun, but it's not really like one of the best long term, not a long term thinker. Yeah.

And so your dad was one of these dudes that would be like, you could barely even tell that he's drunk type thing. Yeah. That he's drinking. You couldn't tell. Like I, and then again, I was a kid, so I don't know, but he would not act different. And maybe if there was something different, I didn't notice any kind of pattern, you know, kind of a thing. And then what would help, and I'm thinking back, I remember this, I would be like, oh, dad, have you ever been drunk before?

And he was like, no, I don't get drunk. He would say that, even though he doesn't get drunk. But he would say that. You know, I don't know if that was a tactic or what. But yeah, it was like full on. He didn't act different at all. Meanwhile, I see other people acting different. Like they would get, I saw like people getting fights and I seen a guy like stab a guy in the arm.

and like all this stuff or whatever and he's like oh yeah they don't know how to control the alcohol you know that you thought that no that's what my dad would say you know sometimes we're like if someone's showing out or something like that um they're like yeah they're just drunk or whatever kind of a thing and i was like okay well you know alcohol can do all this stuff but for some reason either my dad doesn't drink a lot or you know it just doesn't affect him so it was like that and then but every once in a while like i'd find like a 40 ounce in his truck half half gone you know like that kind but I didn't notice any of the effects, though, nothing like that. My mom would mention it, like, oh, Dad's drinking or whatever, but I wouldn't see it, so I didn't know what she was talking about, like, whatever.

So that was kind of it, really. So when did you start drinking when you were a kid? No, like not when we were a kid. Actually, me and my brother, Jade, we didn't drink. And it was like kind of, you know, we played sports and stuff like that. But even through high school, when everyone else started kind of drinking and party, and we were like kind of like, it was like a badge of honor kind of a thing where it's like, yeah, we don't drink or do drugs, nothing like that.

In fact, we had this newspaper article when we went to college and they were like, you know, interviewing us or whatever. And they were like, oh, yeah, what would you want to, like, what message would you send off to people about yourself that you'd kind of, you know, want people to know or whatever? We're like, oh, that we don't drink or do drugs and never will. That's what it said in the newspaper. Damn, look at you.

I didn't know you were so famous. No, no, well. Back in the day. Yeah. No, I mean, we were playing football. So, you know, football is kind of a thing. You're kind of hometown heroes, huh? A little bit.

You know. Do most of the guys that play football in Hawaii, are they from Hawaii? Or do people come from freaking Nebraska and stuff? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, at UH, University of Hawaii? No, no, no, yeah, everybody. So, like, some people from Hawaii and then some people from the maintenance, for sure. But is it kind of like if you're from Hawaii, you're sort of a hometown hero type thing? Yeah, because we don't have NFL in Hawaii, or we don't have a pro team in Hawaii.

So U.H is kind of the top in the state, you know, and we're kind of isolated. So, yeah, I think it's a little bit more high-time. And I think like something, I mean, sometimes are like that as well. But yeah, for sure. I would say being a football player in Hawaii, like, especially when you go to UH, it's like a thing for sure. Did you guys ever get any trouble with the kids that were drinking? No. No, never.

Did people peer pressure you? And what did you say? Not really. No. No, I never felt any peer pressure. Check this out. As a tactic, isn't it easier with the peer pressure to say, I don't drink? than to be like, well, not right now.

And well, well, I guess I'm not really drinking tonight. Yeah, I think so. Just be like, no, I don't drink. I think if you have, and now that I'm thinking about this clearly as an adult, if you have something else going on that's like noticeably at least a little bit successful, and then you say, I don't drink, it kind of, you know, people kind of put two and two together, like, okay, like that makes sense, you know, kind of a thing. and we were always into sports and like working out and stuff.

And we weren't the only ones, but it seemed like that was kind of a thing. Like we were obviously on like this path, you know. And so we were like, yeah, we don't drink. So I don't remember any of our friends. And I had some peer-pressuring friends, too, by the way, Jeremy Traskin. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, he drank a little bit, you know, like whatever. He was just like normal.

And, yeah, I don't remember him pure-pressuring us to drink. He'd peer-pressure us into doing a bunch of other stuff, but never really drinking. Okay. So he knew that that was a futile effort because you guys had a hard stance against it. It's what it felt like, yeah. Okay. And then what about you get to college? How'd that go?

Did you enter into the drinking realm into college? Nope. So it was like that didn't move me either way. College and freedom now and all that stuff. So we actually, at UH, there's like this dorm, I think it was called E-Lima. And it's like there's no drinking allowed. It's a non-drinking, no drugs dorm. E-Lima.

That's what it was called E-Lima. So even if you have a beer like a closed beer or if you went shopping and you had a beer that you're going to give to your friend or something and it was in the dorm you would get busted for I think you'd get like kicked out of the dorm so it was like that where so he was like a non-drinking dorm and we stayed there for I want to say like I don't know two semesters or two years. What did was it kind of nerdish? Because I mean you know sometimes it's like not drinking is associated with being kind of a dork or a nerd. Yeah. And now you take all. all the people that don't drink because some people that don't drink, they don't drink because they don't drink because they're a freaking straight edge, hardcore kid or whatever. But then you also get people that don't drink maybe because they're a little bit nerdy. Yeah.

And they're not social. So it's sort of socially awkward. And now they put them all together. What was going on in E Lima? What was going down? Tell me what's up. I don't know. Put it this way.

If it was, I never felt any of that. I never felt that people thought I was a nerd or nothing like that. I just figured that's just how. Because there was other people stayed at that dorm. So would you say if you took a cross section of E Lima dorm and you looked at all the people, it would seem like just regular, like a normal cross section of a normal college dorm. Or would you say, yeah, no, you're right.

It kind of leaned. I think you're right. Okay. Yeah, there was more. Yeah, it was leaning. Thinking back, now I can notice, oh, wait, there was a lot of people who were really into the academics and really not really trying to avoid the distractions of the party aspect of college for sure. thinking back, but I didn't feel at the time at all.

And so did you stay in this dorm the whole time you were in college? No. What happened? I think, you know, I think the curiosity kind of gets the better of you overall where, you know, you're around people and, you know, parties and stuff like that and everyone's like having so much fun and still getting good grades and we're playing football and stuff like that. And a lot of people, pretty much everyone, pretty much, there's a handful of people who didn't drink or do

But pretty much everyone else drank too on the team and they're still doing great in football and all this stuff. So the idea of drinking being this big detriment in your life. Started to get normalized a little bit. Drinking became normalized. More normalized. And it started to kind of shed some light on the idea how true or not true it is. It shed some light on the idea that I think this whole being a non-drinker thing was more just like a cool thing to say and do for the like the novelty, you know, because ultimately it's. It's just not even a deal.

It's not a big deal at all. And then so you kind of mix all that stuff together and then we're curious. When you would drink, what kind of drinking were you doing? Were you a dude like, you know, you see the college kids that are just slamming handles of vodka? Yeah, doing the whole college thing. Oh, the whole thing. Yeah, because college drinking is different. Blackout drunk scenarios?

I never was that. No, no, no. So in college you figure. Because I'll tell you what, like in the seal teams, there's a whole other freaking. And I guess the military at large. there's a level of drinking it's probably comparable it's in the realm of like college type drinking

I think you're blackout throwing up right alcohol poisoning competing in drinking games you know competitions yeah like there's a level of stupidity yeah that goes down in the 18 to 20 22 24 25 you know age group

this is when people die yeah this is when people fall out windows this is when people die of alcohol poisoning drowning their own puke uh just all kinds of horrible things happen yeah and it comes like that age group 18 to like i said 23 24 you know hopefully by the time you're 25 you're not slamming handles of vodka but i think the military is probably more hardcore i think it is too i think it is too the other thing that's well there's a bunch of things that make it that way too number one you have a paycheck yeah So like a college kid, like you're a little bit concerned about your money.

That is true. You're a little bit concerned about your money. In the military, you're like, y'all, I'm getting another, I'm getting more money in two weeks. Yeah. So the money I've got for right now is for tonight. And we're going to get it. And there's a whole element of like we're going to die anyways. Right.

Yes. That's what I thought. You know, I came to grips with I was talking to Peter Attia when he came on the podcast last time. Like you have an element. When you're in the SEAL teams, even in the 90s, there's no war going on, but you're skydiving. You're freaking diving. You're locking out of submarines. Like people.

die. And so at some point in your head, you either believe that you could die or you at least use as a rationalization to like just get crazy. Yeah. Like at least some party is, well, you know, this might, I could die tomorrow doing a skydive. So we can have a good time tonight. Yep. So you have that whole thing going on. So you got a paycheck. You got a possible death in the near future. And you got a bunch of friends. And the other thing that's weird, oh, this is probably the biggest one. You know how, when you, you know, you go to college, you're free for the first time. Well, that happens on a weekly basis in the military.

You were like in the field and you were like, couldn't do anything. Or you were in the barracks. And then the weekend comes and we're doing whatever we want. Let's go. That totally makes sense. There's all kinds of dumb shit going on, going down in the military. So I think it is next level, slightly next level. And look, I've seen the college kids give it a run for the money.

You know what I mean? They go. Yeah, it feels like there's a different, like, dynamic as far as, like, like what drinking is kind of centered around. So like military has this just general feeling of hardcoreness to it where like you're dealing with guns and real bullets and like all this real stuff kind of on the hardcore part of the spectrum. And then it's like the stress reliever, I guess you could say.

And like just, and if you're going to do something, like it better be kind of hardcore. Better be kind of badass. Right. In college it's not like that. It's more about like the fun and the party and the, freaking, you know, the freedom and the kind of, we're wild, yes, but not like. Let me ask you this.

Did you football players ever just like drink by yourselves as a group? Yeah, yeah, yeah, drinking beers or whatever. But that was different, though. That's different. That's just more like you're just cruising drinking beers, not getting hammered and whoo, partying and pounding shot. We're not part, you know, taking shots. Yeah, that's when you get isolated elements with alcohol with no possibility.

Like a lot of it, let's face it in the military. And then as a young man, a lot of the drinking is centered around going to find women, right? You're going out to find girls, meet girls, all that. We're going to a party. We're going to a bar. We're going to a club, all this other stuff. In the military, sometimes there's no, you're not even doing that.

You're just literally getting drunk and wrecking yourself for no reason. Yeah. No, I don't think that's, not in my experience anyway. So when you, so you were drinking hard. No, well, this is what really, yeah, kind of. I mean, no harder than anyone else. I just thought it was really fun. You know, like the first time I ever drank, I was like, bro, I have no idea how people,

can sustain this because beer tastes like really bad if you if you never drank and then try drink a beer even like a super light one without like that much beer taste you're like bro the taste itself is jamming you up you know the more you drink and then i remember thinking man i wish beer tasted like mountain dew because getting hammered kind of was cool but the taste is holding me back from the fun i could be having kind of a feeling you know and i remember i would always like chew gum or like whatever but no i wouldn't drink that hard, but when you don't drink and you're new to drinking, it doesn't take a lot, you know. But it was just more about the fun and stuff like that, a new fountain fun, you know. And you just viewed it as now it went from something that you didn't do, but now it's just

kind of a normalized thing that has become part of your life. No big deal. Yeah. Drink. Oh, we're going to go out. We're going to have fun. We're going to drink. All good.

Loisten things up a little bit. Provide a little social lubricant. Big time. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we did dumb stuff for sure.

And I did dumb stuff for sure. I.e. Like, you know, you sneak into, like, private property and, like, have the party there. I got in trouble for inciting, like, what they said was kind of a riot, which wasn't a riot. That was an exaggeration. But it was basically a big party was going on. There was two parties going on in these high-rise dorms. And they both got shut down because there were too loud.

There was, like, a band in there and stuff. It was a flagrant party. It was a flagrant party. It was just part of it. It was my friend's one. And then so that, you know, everyone shuts it down and everyone has to all come to. This is like hundreds of people. They all come down and now they're in the courtyard on the bottom floor.

And it's like no one wants to end the party is kind of early, you know. And no one wants to end the party, but they don't have anywhere to go. And you can't hang in the courtyard. But technically, as an individual, you can't. See else I kind of formulated my little argument. As an individual, you can hang out in the courtyard. So as a group, you can't. But as an individual, you can.

So I was going around. So all their security and then the R.A.'s resists. and advisors, I think, whatever. They're saying, hey, you guys can't hang here, right? Hundreds of people. And I knew most of them. So I was just going around saying, hey, you don't have to leave. And I'd say that argument where it's like, you can stay here.

Like, there's no rule against staying right here, you know? We can't have a party. But if you just say, I'm just here cruising by myself and I don't know, you know, I'm not with them kind of an idea, you can't go. And I was right. So when you drink, you become an adamant debater. That was one of the things for sure. But it worked, though.

So no one left. And more security would come, more security would come, then the cops finally came and was like, you guys all do have to leave. And then everyone left. And then I got in trouble for that. But yeah, it was like that kind of stuff. Like I wouldn't, you know, you get into little fights and stuff like that,

but it wasn't anything where I wasn't getting arrested. Are you trying in jihitsu yet? No. You just knew a little bit. I knew from the hoist Gracie tapes and stuff like that. So actually we would do little tournaments and little matches in the gym, but I was not trained in Jiu Jitza. to at this point now.

And that's how your college, kind of normal college, still drinking is pretty normalized. Are you drinking weekends? Are you drinking during the week at all? Not during the week. No, no, no big deal. All right. Then you move out to San Diego, right? I have to get done with college.

And you get out here, did you go straight to work in the nightclub industry? Yeah. And so now it's alcohol-centric. The environment, yes, but I was still only drinking on like days off kind of thing. like two days, one day, two days a week. And that's kind of the, the, where you stayed for a while? Yes. Was like, okay, did you drink, hey, you get done working at two o'clock in the morning and like,

you guys close the front door and now we're going to see, you know, or is it not really like that? Every once in a while, yes, if like, let's say I worked on a Saturday and I don't work on a Sunday or whatever the days are. And then, you know, the manager or whatever, because we're all friends in there too. So, you know, we'd close up and then, yes, we'd have like one drink, two drinks. You can't just drink all the alcohol in the bar. You know, it's like... And plus you got to drive home.

Yeah, you got to drive home. You got to, you know, like, it's not party time. And it's late. You're not going to, you know. I mean, although that probably happened, you know, once or twice or whatever, but generally speaking, no. So you just have one or two and that's it. And again, not every day.

Just because you're around it every day, like I'm not drinking every day. Most people not like that. It's just on the days off. So you're still kind of in a place where drinking is sort of normal. You're not really feeling any negative impact. You're having fun. Not at all. You're still working out.

You're still doing normal stuff. You're not, you haven't been arrested. You haven't gotten a DUI. You don't feel the need to drink every night. So you're in a pretty, what we would say is a non, alcohol is not having a, no look, we could drill down and be like, oh, yes, we could pick it apart. Yes. But from your perception at the time, alcohol is not having a negative impact on your life.

That is correct. And here's why, which is like something that like you kind of go in and out of remembering this idea that, thinking back then, even in college, where the reason it wasn't a problem is because I had other stuff going on that was more important than hanging out and partying. Or another way to put it is alcohol didn't fit into the more important things that I was doing. Like it didn't fit. It would always mess it up. So like you can't, if you're into your fitness, you know, kind of a thing, being a young single guy in San Diego, whatever, and I was always always into fitness, whatever, but I was kind of into it. So if I'm drinking, you can't work out hung over. Like,

it's not sustainable, you know, and I knew that. And I was really into like the working out process was fun to me. So I was like, freak, if you work out, it makes working out. Or if you drink, it's not fun to work out the next day. It's not at all. No matter how much you power through it, it's not fun at all. So it was night and day. So it was like, I understood that these other things are way more important than drinking.

No matter how fun it gets, these more things in life are way more important. And drinking would just get in the way. And that was always in the back of my head, not consciously, but that's how it felt. You know, like if someone's like, hey, let's go out party. I'm like, now I have like workout or work, you know, all this stuff. So it's safe to say that you wouldn't be considered like an alcoholic by standard definitions. Not in the public definition. I mean, medically, yeah, because that's how much, but.

Okay, because they would give you like a thing in the military to judge if you're an alcoholic. Oh, yeah. And it would be like six questions like, do you drink to get drunk? Do you ever black out? Do you have more than what whatever? And it'd be like It'd be that you'd answer them and then it'd say if you answered yes to one of these questions Then you are you could be considered an alcoholic and most of the guys in my platoons were just

Everyone yeah. Yeah, yeah of course I blacked out you know last night whatever So it was almost like they judged it to the point where it didn't mean anything. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly It's like oh everyone's just an alcoholic But it sounds to me like you would have actually answered no to most of those questions. I would have answered no to most of them. But I would still would have been alcohol because I would have answered yes to at least one of those. And I know I do have to answer yes to a lot of the ones that the doctor asked you. You know, you have more than four drinks or whatever per week.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I have more than four drinks in one day. And I drink more than once a week. Yeah. You know, four drinks in one hour. Yeah. It's like I'm an idiot. Yeah.

Okay, so you're doing cool. I mean, relatively speaking, this is not a, this is not causing negative impacts in your life at this time. Again, could you have been better? Yes. You know, when I look back at my life and I just think of the financial implications of drinking, it's ridiculous. It's totally ridiculous.

Yes, it is. Because when I'm on the SEAL teams, you know, we spent a lot of money. Yeah. On alcohol. A lot of money on alcohol. and if I would have saved that money, invested that money, bought something, you know, house, whatever, like it would have been just a totally different scenario. Yeah. I mean, we'd spend, it was no factor to spend four or five hundred bucks a night in the 90s.

Yeah. You know, in the early 90s, gone and spend 500 bucks. Oh, like at the bar. Yeah. Oh, 100%. Because back in the day, you could only get $300 out of an ATM. Yeah, that's true. And so I remember I'd have to kind of preload the day before.

Yeah. make sure I had like 600 bucks for whatever we were going to do. And look, that might include a taxi, and it might include some burgers or whatever. But most of it, three, 400 of it, booze, just like an idiot. So there's that. And then time. You know, like how much time did I spend drinking?

Did we spend drinking when we could have been getting better at guitar? Could have been, you know, learning how to do a skill that would be more valuable. What sucks is, you know, you're in the SEAL team, there's only these certain skills that you care about. That's it. And I think that applies to everybody. You just care about diving. Just these things that you care about.

And you can do okay with them. And you're pretty good at them. And actually in your platoon, you're like, dude, we're all the best. And I'm pretty good even with the best. So I'm good. Yeah. That's exactly the same might. Obviously, I'm not with shooting and timing.

But with the stuff that I cared about, it was drinking basically was like second to all that stuff. So I could fit it in. You know, if you can get five workouts a day or a week. get to work on time, do a good job at work, not get arrested and stuff like that. You're like, you're kind of good to go. So you feel like you're good to go. Yeah.

Okay, so then what created the, where you started to drink a little bit more? Was that when you got injured? Was that you, yeah. So this is years later. So you figure, you live that lifestyle for five, six years. Five, six, seven years? Seven years?

Yeah, five years. Yeah, just, like, I would say I was not an anomaly as far as drinking. That's what I hate. to say it normal because I wish normal was people didn't drink but for in comparison with normal humans you were kind of doing the normal thing drinking on the weekends Friday Saturday you know maybe if there was a Sunday you know pool party you'd kick back with a couple two three five exactly right call it good okay so we know where you're at and then you tear your bicep is this is the first bicep that you tore yeah so and fast forward because I got into jujitsu

which was even more like, hey, no drinking, you know, like kind of. So, and then I was working out twice a day, like doing all this stuff, competing, you know, also drinking, right, you can't do all that, you know? Jiu-Jitsu slowed my drinking down. Big time. Like, big time. Like, when I went from just being in a platoon, I wasn't doing Jiu-Jitsu, because then what are you doing on the weekends?

Like, you, we'd go to work out on the weekends, but we'd go to work out at like 10 in the morning. So you drink all night, party, whatever, get home. The bars close at 2 o'clock in the morning in California. you know, whatever, maybe you takes you till three, you fall asleep, you still, you know, wake up at six hours later, it's nine o'clock, go work out. You're totally in the game, you're totally in the parameters of the job and of the life that you want to be living. Totally.

Now when you throw jihitsu in there, and by the way, you can go, you don't have to wrestle a pull-up bar. You don't have to wrestle the deadlift. That thing doesn't fight you back. Yeah. So if you're not giving it, you're all, it doesn't know. No, it doesn't. Right?

You know what I mean? Yeah. Like if you, you couldn't get, you know, your sixth rep, it doesn't care. You just did five and you don't have to pay anybody for that. Yes. But on the mats of justice, there will be justice. Oh, big sense. Is served.

Oh, yeah. And if you're competing, that matters. You know, where like if you're like, okay, I'm going to go to training and you're competing or whatever, you got a tournament that month, that week, whatever, and you go train and you have a bad day of training, that is like, oh my gosh, like, freaking should I be competing? I'm not that good or what, you know, like just days. to day that's kind of like that constant evaluation of your skill level so yeah if you're hung over and you have like multiple bad days of training that gets in the way of your goals and

it's really obvious so did you had you cut back on drinking during your jih Tijuana years um now that that I think of it yeah but it wasn't like a thing where I'd be like okay it's just like hey if if I can't really drink then I don't drink you know kind of a thing it wasn't like oh I really need to cut back it wasn't that it was like I got jiu jiu jit so why I'm not going out tonight right I don't consider drinking right you know drinking is like I have to consider actively, you know, then I'm like, oh, yeah, I can drink and kind of a thing. Okay, so you get injured.

Yes. And now you can't train. Can't train. And this is when you're starting to get creative, for lack of a better, where you're making videos. This is kind of a beginning your video career. I think one, that injury kind of opened up that, you know, where, because I can't go train.

I can't lift, really. I mean, even when I'm lifting, it's like, you, you don't have many fitness goals you're trying to achieve when you're injured like that. So you're just trying to maintain, trying to do rehab and stuff like that. So in the meantime, what are you going to do kind of a thing? And yeah, I was always into that creative stuff, you know, so Yeah, I picked up a camera or whatever and started that the reason I bring that up is because I know That you have told me and you used to tell me this even when you were drinking you'd be like Explaining that you would kind of get

Pleasure out of sitting there making a video and drinking your what did you used to drink vodka and soda water or something? Yeah, well, I don't know That time, I think it was vodka and grapefruit juice. Okay. So you're drinking vodka and grapefruit juice. Yes. But you would just drink. That's what you do. You sit in the computer and you work on your videos all night.

All night long. Yeah. Staying up late. Well, here's the thing. Sometimes you used to come to record the podcast in the morning and you'd been up all night. Well. Or a lot of the night. Yes.

Oh, yeah. A lot of the night. Pretty much all, yeah, all night. Well, if you remember, fast for it a little bit, the first few podcasts, I would drink while we're doing the podcast. That's insane. Yeah. And that was just like the first drink the night. But yeah, here's what it is. Wait, why did you drink while we were recording the podcast? I didn't even know you were drinking. Yeah. It was just, it looked like a cup of water. Yeah. Because no one has a big cup like that of just full of a because I don't know.

So you were drinking. That's interesting. I'm going to have to go back and listen to those and see what drunk echo, but you weren't really drunk. No. And you were just buzzing. After that one drink, it's like you don't really feel it till the end of it anyway. So it doesn't it. That was not a, it didn't really change. me at all. Even when I stopped drinking, I didn't feel any difference at all. But no, and here's the thing. And I say, I'm going to say this part because it's a trap, because this is part of the trap where, because, you know, it's like an addiction, right? So there's good addictions and bad addictions. And of course, both are kind of debatable on

certain levels or whatever. But I got addicted to the learning process of all this video and CGI and all this stuff because at that time, that was the beginning of the resource flood, you know, like on YouTube and stuff. You can learn anything on YouTube. Like right now you can learn pretty much anything on YouTube. You can literally learn how to be a lawyer on YouTube right now. But back then, it was like that was the beginning of all that. And a big part of it was video stuff and video related stuff.

Yeah. And it's, of course, for videos to learn, there's going to be a lot of videos to learn about videos to learn because the people that know how to make videos are making videos to learn. Exactly, exactly right. So consider the little. little like trap I kind of fell in. Because I was I got addicted to that as well. That's all I wanted to do.

What do you mean addicted? Like that's all I wanted to do is like learn how to do this next effect or this next type Like how many hours would you spend doing that? Like eight to 10 hours a day. Just straight. Yes. Straight. So like during the day it wasn't as fun but during the day and I try to get a workout

in of some sort. But Sarah would be like come on like hey we want to eat dinner and you'd be like I can't I'll be down just eat without me type thing. Yes. Yes. Not that specifically, but yes. Oh, yeah. I'm not doing that.

I'm not doing a bunch of other things because I'm just going to be dorking out over your other things. Correct. That is correct. Yeah. I mean, we didn't have kids still like later. So it was just me and her. But yeah. Oh, yeah.

Fully. Like I wasn't going places. Even if I would go places, I would be like thinking about it. Yeah, fully. I was addicted to that. But then at the drinking, not what was really addicted to the process, you know, because you get to kind of. Because it makes it like more fun. Way more fun.

Oh, yeah. So, but like I said, like there's external things that can make the addiction to the drinking way more powerful. Like if you're addicted to like going out looking for chicks or like, you know, the other thing that you're into, if it involves drinking, like it makes it like double, double addictive kind of a thing. Just so happens. Mine was a constructive thing. But which ended up being a little double-edged sword because now I can rationalize it more, you know? Yeah, you used to rationalize. you used to rationalize some videos and some ideas that were just dumb.

Oh yeah. That was part of it. And we had many conversations about that where you'd basically say you'd have an idea when you were two o'clock in the morning and you were kind of drunk and you'd spend three hours working on. Yeah. Like something that just was. Yeah. Yeah.

And the next day. Oh, yeah. You know how many like, so we'd laugh about. Started videos. Started videos, started companies. So I buy like five URLs. X-Y-Z dot com. And the next day I'm like, proud of it.

Echo teaches cgri graphics.com. Trust me, that's a way better idea than the most of them that I had. But yeah, you know, that was the process right there. Okay, so we started this podcast in 2015, believe it or not. And I remember for a while you kind of like backed off. I remember you, you know, you were saying like, dude, you know, and you kind of backed off of drinking for a bit. And you kind of went back to maybe the.

normal like all weekends, whatever, having a pool party, whatever, something like this. Yeah, fully. And a lot of that is because I had kids. So when you have kids or whatever, you make those adjustments. But it's weird because I'm not competing in Jiu-Jitsu anymore. And, you know, fitness is kind of like, you know, like I don't care that much about it. Even though I did care about it, it was still part of the whole gig. But I didn't care as much because the career part of my life was like, was improving, you know.

and was kind of establishing itself before the podcast. So as long as I could get the work done, as long as I could get a workout in, and as long as I wasn't failing as a parent, the rest of the, you know, is I fit in the drinking. And just so happens, you can make a lot of adjustments, you know, with these things, especially when you run your own schedule.

So you can go, okay, I'm going to drink and then, okay, you know, and kind of battle through everything else and still kind of be able to be successful in it. You can pull that off. So yes, I wasn't getting, like it wasn't super heavy, but basically I was maintaining for sure. But I'd go in and out though. Like I would quit for like a month, you know, that kind. I was that guy, which is super cool.

When you quit for a month, why would you quit for a month? Would you be like, dude, I'm doing this too much? I'm not getting stuff done. You just sort of, it's a feeling that comes, you know? So was it full like addict mode when you're like, dude, I just really want to have a drink right now. Or did you say, you know what I can quit any time. So yeah, just quit for a month. That's not big deal.

I'm good. That was it. That was it. Yeah, exactly right. I never felt like every once in all when I'd wake up like actually in the hungover realm where I drank kind of too much and I'm physically feeling not that good. Then I'd be like, man, I really need to stop. But then if it wasn't that, I was like, because I proved to myself every single day

that I can power through the day even if I'm a little bit dragging, you know, it was that kind of scenario. And then what happened like basically COVID? Now we're in lockdown allegedly. And look, your and I lockdown was not like a normal. person lockdown. I think we were kind of doing what we were doing. But it did mean the kids are at home.

It did mean there's no travel at all. Yep. You know? No jih Tzu. You and I traveled. People were doing jiu-jitsu in very small groups. And it was easy to not do jiu-jitsu because, well, you could be like, well, I don't know or whatever. So you started drinking more in lockdown.

Yes, sir. So, and here I think this is important because I think a lot of people are kind of in this zone as well where COVID lockdown. Yes, I got to the point where I could get good workouts in and still drink every single day and a lot too. But I could still get like PR workouts in, like good workouts in. And that's because you didn't really have much else to do. So you could like literally lay in bed. Yeah, more or less. Oh, yeah, I'm not going to work out until six o'clock tonight.

Yep, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Right. Drink a bunch of water, you know, some gates. Like freaking, you know, walk around a little bit, do somewhere. You know, I'm just sitting down in front of the computer, you know, hanging with my kids, like kind of playing around.

Go outside, throw the ball, you know, a little bit, you know, like that kind. It wasn't like, have to go to this work and make all these decisions really function like cognitively, you know, it wasn't that. You basically used your day to recover. Yes. Yep. Exactly. Exactly right.

And, you know, it kind of helped that I had a real tolerant wife or have a real tolerant wife. So she would just be like, oh, well, you were up late working because technically I was. So it's like, yeah, he's just his shit. Even though you were making a CGI video of a freaking. Yeah. The two fair. Yeah. Yeah.

But like I said, it was kind of like my work was delivering, you know, where it there was no metric that you could say, hey, you're failing at work. In fact, it was the opposite. It was like, oh yeah, you're, you know, things are growing. Okay. Yeah, because now we had the podcast. At the podcast, we're developing new things and they were landing. And, you know, it was like, like I said, there was no metric to say that that I was regressing.

you know in life all all arrows were pointed in a positive direction we'll say most yeah most arrows yeah so you can kind of tolerate it you know so were there any hints in there where you were starting to think like maybe i should not be drinking so much no there was not not not noticeably like given i don't know maybe like a general standard you know where like i said like bro, I don't go out and party. I don't go out and get into fights. I don't do illegal stuff. I'm not going to jail.

I never had a DUI, nothing like that. So, no, I don't abuse anyone. I don't even get angry or nothing like that. I get even more social when I drink, you know, around people. And I wasn't really drinking around people that much, you know. So it was like, freaking whatever. Yeah. Nothing tangible will say that.

I mean, you could go look into your brain and be like, hey, am I reaching my potential or whatever? Then, yeah, but that's different. It's funny how we can take our potential and just say whatever about it. I know, you know what I mean? It's like you can take your potential or whatever. As if that's not an awesome thing to go after.

As if your potential as a human being is just a whatever. It's true. It's a sad state of affairs. At a certain point, though, I know some things kind of happened that you did think about. Like you had some snowboard trip. You went on with Cairo where, what happened with that?

Yeah, so it was, I think throughout the drinking process, there was something in my head saying, like, this isn't good. Like, literally this is bad. I don't know. We're not at the maturity level yet to admit exactly why, but we know it's there lingering, you know? And you're saying you. Me, in myself, in my own brain. So I would do these little tactics where I'd be like, hey, freaking, I'd pour my drinks out, like for the night. You know, I'd pour them out like beforehand.

be like, okay, there's like, you know, I know how much vodka goes in one big drink. So I'd pour them out. So I'm like, okay, I got four drinks tonight or five drinks tonight or whatever. And then I take the bottle and I'd be like, Sarah, freaking put this, hide this somewhere. You know, so I don't, because, you know, after a few drinks, that plan goes right out the window. You just want that other one because you want the fun to keep going. So I knew that. And so I got down to the system, right?

And sometimes it wouldn't work because before the night would end for some, I don't know, for whatever reason, I'd go like, I don't know, go in the bathroom or something, and I'd see, oh, that's where she hid the bottle. So I'd know it, you know, like that. It was real mess stuff. It was like behind the scenes. That says red, that's like a big giant red danger flag to me. If I'm, if I'm asking my wife to hide the liquor for me so that I can't drink it later when I'm a little bit drunk. Yes.

Yeah. But you didn't, you actually registered that as if you were squared away. Good system. Exactly right. It wasn't perfect because I'd defeat the system sometimes. But the point there isn't. Like, you know, whether I felt good or bad about it or nothing like that. It was more that it was obvious that something was wrong that I was fighting against Even though like I felt or I could rationalize to myself that it was working. It was obvious that something like was wrong and I could feel it, you know? So what happened with the snowboard trip?

You know, one of these moments of clarity. I'm like I realized that was one of these people who had all these like for lack of better term dreams and aspirations and plans and one day I want to do this. I'm like I'm like I realized that was one of these people who had all these like for lack of better term dreams and plans and plans and one day I want to do this. And I'd really like to get into this. Every time I see someone snowboarding, for example, I'd be like, oh, man, I've always wanted to snowboard, like for years and years. I grew up on quiet. There's no snowing quiet, by the way.

So I'm like, oh, man, I would really love to do that. Then I'm like, wait a second. I could totally do that, like tomorrow, right? You know, like at this moment. But then why don't I? And it never really happened. Then one time, it was just one of those happenstance moments of clarity that I would be like, not like, fuck it.

I'm going to make the plan tell Sarah. And, you know, Sarah grew up in the snow. And she loves that kind of stuff. And she was like saying, so anyway, I made the plan. I was like, hey, let's go snowboarding right here. And Sarah signed right on because she grew up in the snow. She loves it. She was freaking super happy.

She was even saying, freaking, I've been waiting for you to get out of your routine to start doing more stuff like this or whatever. I was like, okay, cool. And then we did it. And we went up there. It was like the best, man. Everyone freaking loved it. I freaked it. I loved it.

I liked it even better than I thought I would. So it's like one of those things. And it was just yet another hint that, bro, there's a world out here that like is, like limitless that you can, things you can do, things you can learn, things you can, you know, have the potential of like embracing and succeeding in, you know, on all these different levels. And it's all out there waiting. But that drinking, which that, it always came back down to the drinking because I can work all, you know, I can work a lot and still do that stuff because I'll have the energy to do it.

But drinking, you spend the whole, just like I said, you spend the whole day recovering, essentially. So you're like, if you're not in the mood to do something, brother, that feeling goes way up, way up when you're dragging from drinking. And for you, that was even true with us, Jiu-Jitsu. Yeah. It was like a struggle to go, you know, where I'd be dragging myself to Jiu-Suitz. And the other day you came and you were telling me afterwards,

like, bro, Jiu-Jitsu is so fun. So fun. Go ahead. Like, it's like, you know, back in the day where I think we're all kind of like this, who've been into Jiu-Jitsu for a long time, back in the day it's like you couldn't wait to go to J-Jitsu. Even like when you wake up, like in my case, I'd wake up in the morning

and I'd be like, shit, how long is it till I get to go to Jiu Jiu Jus. Just can't wait. Everything about it's fun. Doesn't matter if you get tapped or don't tap. It doesn't matter. Nothing matters. It's just like just being there and doing it

was fun. Everything from the moment you step. So I'd always think about it. But bro, when you're dragging, brother, that's kind of the last thing I want to do right now is go get freaking choked by Jocco and stuff and freaking get claustrophobia because you won't let me up. So then the window starts to close

and you're like, well, I woke up a little bit. and I got to, you know, I do want to do this and I got to take out the garbage. And plus I was supposed to, you know, probably not the best day for me to go. Oh, yeah, fully. And it's habitually that would happen so much

that after a while I kind of like forgot about it in this sense where you forget about Jiu-Zitsu because it's just not in the schedule. And then every once in a little click. They'd go, oh, wait, I could go to Jiu-Jitsu right now. Then I'd like drag myself and go. So I'd hardly ever go. I'd go like once a week once, every two, three weeks,

you know, like that kind. There was a competition of this. Jiu-Jitsu this weekend. Yeah, hell yeah. World League. Yeah, World League. Good tournaments. Run super smooth. All good.

Well, my daughter competed, and she was competing. She did Gia Nogi, and she was competing with the Ghi. And she's in, like, a tough match. You know, these are, you know, it's tough matches. And I see, you know, some transition, and I look at it, she's

smiling. Like, like, not a huge, like, over to the top smile, but just like a smile as if she's like watching, you know, the office or just like a nice little smile. Like she's just having a good time. In the middle of a little bit of a, you know, a hardcore match, you know? People are trying to break your arm.

People are trying to choke you. And like she like maneuvers around. She's getting a girl's back. And like I look at her face and she's smiling. Like this is like a, I'm so happy. And I was like, yeah, that's the jiu jiu-jitsu right there. Oh, yeah. And I zoomed in because I was videoing.

I zoomed in. I think I tried. I haven't reviewed the tape yet. I think I caught like she's putting a choke on someone and she's smiling just to herself you know what I mean she wasn't looking around She's just herself in her own world at that moment in time There was peace and happiness in her world that's real and that's a real thing. Oh yeah Fuck, man that's like one of the things to that what drinking in this case like what drinking just robs from you Because there's that like that idea that little thing that smile that freaking happiness you know

You'd be surprised how many things in life that that exists in and bro, I'm telling you'll miss. I don't know. I did. I totally would miss a bunch of that stuff, you know, because I'm like focusing on recovering and like, you know, you're dragging. You're not in the mood for anything. So things that are supposed to give you the internal smile aren't doing it. Not doing it. Not doing it.

And you get used to it. So it's like a kind of a sad state of affairs, you know? So now you're just not smiling very, as much. Not as much at all. What about what about did you? lose the let's say like you're making videos and you're still into that and you did you lose any of that no you still like that you still got an internal smile yeah yes sir did you feel like the because you know you'll hear a rock and roll guy say like well you know we wrote this song we

were high we were drunk that's kind of like helped us make this wild stuff i heard joe rogan will say like you know these dudes were high as hell you know uh did you do how do you feel about your creativity with alcohol. Yeah. I would say that that's a real thing in my experience. I felt like that was a real thing for sure. Because to think back and analyze it, it was like from an idea standpoint, all my idea, you know, and this goes for everyone, by the way, for the most part, where when you drink,

all your ideas seem good, not just the good ones. That's what I remember you telling me is like you tell me like when you're drinking, you think all your ideas are good, which is not good. Nope because then you don't prioritize and execute you don't prioritize you just think you just had 19 good ideas last night Oh yeah and they're all stupid well 18 of them are dumb well think about it this makes sense and it's true because when Video who cares about making videos or making creative stuff just say in life when you go out drinking all ideas are good Bro let's all take off our clothes go to the freaking pier in PB and jump off in the middle of the night Yeah, that seems like a good idea when you're drinking and I know this because that's literally what I did with my this is a long

time ago, but this is like one of the things you do. And then when you think back here, like, brother, that wasn't a good idea at all. You get arrested. But literally in the moment, it seems like a good idea. Bro, let's get into a fight with that guy. I don't like how he looks. I don't like how he like looked at me. I don't know if he looked at me or now, but I just don't like it. Let's get a fight. That seems like a good idea. And then you'll just execute, you know, it's like, that's everybody. Everyone thinks the most ideas seem good. But it can kind of help you when you're formulating creative ideas. So you're just like everything is. included so you're just like doing it and following through and it's part of the learning

process as well so it's like there's always a big payoff for me for that so it would help me I think I mean results wise I don't I don't know but process wise it did yeah it made work way more fun so I guess there's something that Kerry said to you that left an impact what did K dog say to yeah we were at sushi and I was drinking sake too by the way and it still made an impact where he was explaining to me one of the because Kerry doesn't drink anymore. Yeah, at all. Yeah. So, and I was asking, oh, yeah, you know, why not or whatever.

And I wasn't trying to get them to drink at all. I was just wondering, like, what's that, you know, what's the process? Keep in mind, like, nowadays, too, we, it's, we slowly hear more and more people kind of start saying like, hey, yeah, I haven't drank for like two years. It was just getting in the way, you know, and even you, what you would say, but I just thought you were just different. But even you saying something very specific, which really landed on me after I stopped drinking was you just said simply, drinking doesn't help you.

That's all you said. So I was like, oh, damn. But before that, Carrie said, oh, well, he's like, in a nutshell, the reason I quit drinking is because on one hand, if I drink, my life goes to shit every single time. And on this, on this hand, when I don't drink, my life literally gets better and better and better and doesn't stop. And I was like, oh, damn, that's like a good, even if that's not factually true for anyone. Like, that's literally how it works most of the time. I mean, it'd be hard pressed to find someone that they're. life gets better when they're drinking and it gets worse when they're sober.

Exactly, right. Maybe you could take some kind of a short-term tactical view that like, oh, I'm going to have more fun at this party. But if you want to talk about, yeah, at your life broads, broadly speaking, there's no one that's on the list of like my life is better when I'm drinking alcohol. Yeah, or ever since I picked up drinking more, my life is improved, you know, by so much. So he says that to you while you're drinking, yeah, drinking, well, you're kicking. back sake and sushi. Yeah. Yeah. And it was it was a fun time and that that did add like another

little inkling of an ingredient to be like because like I said like I wasn't 100% okay with it. But that's, you know, I did. I wasn't enough. I wasn't not okay enough with it to actually stop. So but that added like another little thing that really stuck with me that pushed nudge to me in the direction of like, okay, at some point this is going to have to stop. So at what point did you reach the tipping point? What was it? Or what were the final kind of like items? It was weird.

It was almost like a super anticlimactic ending to a movie or something like that. It wasn't like, oh, yeah. You know how like some people they'll be like, and this is what I do too? I'd be like, yeah, I'm going to stop drinking on Monday. And it's like a Friday, you know? So I'm going to have one last, you know, deal. And then on Monday it happened. And then maybe it works, maybe it doesn't.

And it for sure doesn't stick, right? But mine was like, it was like three or four days before camp and the jih Tzu camp. Jiu Jitsu camp. And, you know, I, for whatever reason, just didn't drink before, like a few days before that, just by happenstance. And then I went to camp. And then I think in camp, like things gel, because you're just in the mountains.

And a lot of times, like, we're just, you just by yourself in the cabin, you know. And so, like, all the information and, you know, that's kind of rolling around in your life kind of like gels. in your brain, I think. I think that was it. That's it. And you kind of do the math and you kind of like search your feelings and all this stuff. And you kind of realize, wait a second, drinking, even short term has not been really serving me in a way. And then if I could ever find it in myself to like not drink for a week, it's like I feel so much better just in general. And like you kind of consider, sure, I did some cool things like outside of my normal routine and, you know, develop.

cool traditions and you know you know snowboarding was just one of them and that is cool but imagine how many other things could like materialize if i just freaking finally just turn my back on drinking you know what about that incident that we had um we had an incident at camp with you me my daughter hannah a couple other people and there was a dude at camp and we're all just sitting around for midraths or whatever like the the post evening jiu jitzu session oh yeah they bring out food and you can kind of go get you know make a make a sandwich grab a mulk was kind of the deal yeah so we're all in there doing that and you're kind of tired you know but you just got done training but you're not you know you're gonna go get some food yeah you don't want to go catabolic

no so when they're eating and uh they made announcement like hey if you guys want some beer there's some beer in there, you know, et cetera. And not all, I mean, we were all just got done training. We're not feeling like drinking. And there was a dude at the table with us, like kind of an older dude, probably like a little bit older than me. And he stands up and like walks over to cooler. Well, before that, that we were talking with him beforehand.

And he's a successful dude. Like works in, I think Silicon Valley or something like that. Start some company with an engineer or something like that. Like, yeah. Like a successful dude that's, you know, at camp, doing jiu-jitsu on the path. I mean, it's like all good, right? And then he, we don't think anything of it. You know, there's like an announcement, hey, there's beer in the coolest.

If you guys want to grab a beer, cool. He kind of just hears that. And I don't think anything of it. He stands up, goes over, grabs a beer, you know, all good. Comes back. And I remember he kind of like put the beer on the table. And he reached to open it. And he goes, I haven't had a drink in 20 years.

And I look at him. and I just go, hey, were you an alcoholic? And he got a look on his face like he just got busted kind of. Yeah. And also saved at the same time. That's a good way to put it. And he goes, yeah, I was. And I was like, what the fuck are you doing, bro?

I was like, give me that shit. And I took it away from him. And I was like, go get a milk. And like, you ain't drinking. This is horrible. Boom, so he was kind of like, like I said, he looked like he got busted, and then he looked like he got saved,

and he walked over and he grabbed the mulk. And I remember I was walking back with my daughter. And because then, you know, we all sat there for a little while. And at the, you know, when we left, I was like, hey, bro, you know, this is, do not drink. Like, do not come to this freaking camp. Yeah. And derail your life.

And he's like, no, I'm sorry. I don't know what I was thinking. I don't know what happened. He was a little bit like he almost got possessed in that moment. The weird thing was it wasn't like the possession was random because I could understand if you know we were all like hooting and hollering and listening to the freaking Brazilian dance music or whatever. We're all in there, you know, pumping our fists in the air and having drinks. But we weren't. We were sitting around literally talking about Jiu-Jitsu getting ready to go to bed. So it was weird that he got caught up in that moment. So I'm driving back or driving, I might think I was driving one of those little golf college back with my daughter. And she just looked at me and she said, there's nothing good about alcohol is there. And I said, no, there's not.

It's horrible. The good news is I talked to him like the following, like there was three days left at camp. Every day I talked to him. You know, and I just said, hey man, how are you doing? He's like, dude, I don't know what happened. I'm totally good to go. Like, that was weird.

I hadn't even had to hurt. This is the thing that I remember. He goes, he goes, I remember. He goes, when I picked up that beer, I got to the table. He goes, I put my fingernail got underneath the. whatever that thing's called yeah the the top opener he said my finger got underneath that opener and I started to feel like oh it's back because you can imagine like a junkie like how how that feeling like when you get that you're

like oh it's almost here it's almost here and he got that feeling he remembered that feeling of 20 years got his fingernail and he's like oh I get to go back I get to have it and then boom no fuck are you doing and he was Danger close. Yeah. Danger close from going down. God knows what happens. That was an incredible moment to see because you can see how two things.

Number one, you can see how easy it is. And number two, you can see how much impactful it is to have someone around you that's going to be like looking out for you a little bit. Yeah. Or for someone to step in and help you get through tough situations. Yeah. So that to me was definitely a good, learning lesson me too to be watching out for other people and also the level after

20 years you can get sucked back in and think you're okay I think it's gonna be all good it's not yeah it's not it's not gonna be okay it's not gonna be good it's not gonna bring you anything no sure that was um that impacted me too by the way because I wasn't I didn't really like make any kind of decision especially at that point where it I was just doing camp like I don't really drink in camp I think I'm I mean maybe a few years ago. I had like a, you know how they have wine sometimes? I had like had a drink wine.

I don't drinking camp for whatever reason. And then experiencing that right there was like, really thinking back, it was like a good situation where I was detached from it. And I could see the two, you know, the two sides of it kind of playing themselves out, right? And then you were like the, you know, the good guy and he was like the victim

and the alcohol was kind of like the bad guy, the little devil, you know? And you were there, you know, the little fight just ensued right in front of my face. And this guy, bro, he almost went down straight up. Because it's not like you saw the whole thing happening. We didn't know anything. I didn't know anything. Actually, that's what someone else that was at the table with us said to me, like, I never would have asked that.

Me too. I said that. Okay. Was you? Yeah. Yeah. You're like, I never would ask that. Because to me, if someone stopped drinking, there's a good chance they were an alcoholic.

And if they say I haven't drank for 20 years. years, that's like letting you know there's an issue. Yeah. And you know, I, when I stopped drinking, I stopped drinking kind of like you, like I just kind of stopped drinking. I didn't have any reason to drink anymore. I just, so it wasn't like an epiphany moment for me that was like, I didn't wake up, you know, in the freaking gutter with my wallet gone and my wife left me and my kids, whatever. No, I just retired from the Navy.

I'm out of the Navy like oh yeah I used to drink with those guys those guys aren't really here anymore oh I saw one of them last weekend oh cool we had a drink but I still got to go home I got work to do I got this I got that and then it just eventually over a pretty short period of time I was like yeah this is stupid yeah I don't need to be doing this and then that was that so you had these things so you get to camp you don't drink at camp did you decide at camp you know what I'm done was that at camp Yeah, I think so. But it was like a light, it wasn't like a, you know, draw the line in the sand kind of a decision. It was just like, bro, I think, I think I'm kind of done.

And it's got, you know, how you can kind of have these little. What scares me about that is there's a lot of people, the description that you just gave in the description that I just gave, I don't think that's normal. I think if you have a problem with alcohol, you have to draw a line in the sand. That's what I think. I actually don't think I have a problem with alcohol. Matter of fact, I know I don't. Like I have no desire to drink. When I stopped drinking, I have no desire to drink.

I had no desire to drink. So I can't say that I would have a problem. But I think people that have a problem, they have to draw a line and send. And I know this because I've known alcoholics. Yeah, me too. The one beer? Oh, no, I'm just going to have a few tonight.

That's not a thing. It's not a thing if you're an alcoholic. It's not at all. Yeah. And I do believe that everything is a spectrum. But I think that being an alcoholic, this is what it seems like. that that that's a spectrum as well.

But the really the way that to ensure that it's going to be effective that you can win the fight against that kind of stuff is to draw the line in the sand for sure. As far as like reliably win, that's the way to do it 100%. What's weird is if you're listening to this right now and you're thinking like, well, I don't really think I would need to quit drinking

because I don't think I have a problem with it. So therefore I'll just keep drinking. It's sort of like that's just indicating. to you that you actually really want to keep drinking, you probably have a problem. Yeah. If you're like, yeah, you know what? I don't think I should drink either.

You probably don't have a real problem. And you stop. If you're listening, it's like, yeah, well, I don't really, I wouldn't need to draw a line. If you're making, if you're already making excuses hearing this, and by the way, if I sound like I'm trying to get you not to drink

if you're listening to this, I am, I don't want you to drink. I know it doesn't help you. I know it only will hurt you. I know it brings no benefit in your life. I know it hurts your health. It hurts your mindset. It hurts your workout tomorrow.

It hurts your interaction with your family. It just doesn't do anything good for you. It doesn't help, as I said to you a few years ago. Drinking does not help you in any way. So I'm recommending line in the sand. Yep. I'm going to stop drinking right when, right now. If you have to give yourself this weekend,

that's definitely telling you that you should stop right now. Yeah, that's right now. That is assorted itself out. method, it sorted itself out to be a failure. Yeah. And I've always threatened to do like a podcast on the straight edge. I think we might have done an underground a little bit on straight edge. But just the straight edge scene when I was growing up.

And what that was like, there's a whole genre of hardcore music that's all straight edge. Don't drink, don't smoke, don't do drugs. And it, look, it spun off in all kinds of wild directions. but the core of it, very positive, in my opinion, definitely kept me out of that kind of stuff when I was younger. And I know it's kept a lot of kids and brought a lot of people onto the more positive side of things. But it's a small, small genre.

Most music is telling you to drink, telling you to party. Oh, yeah. That's what most music is doing. It's terrible. Yep. you do notice a lot of that stuff too, like how much, and this sounds like obvious and there's nothing new, but like how much alcohol is part of like our culture and even the good parts of our culture, right? So you know, we just traveled recently. So I'm looking at all the cool advertisements on the electric billboards and like all this stuff. And one of them is like, oh, finally get a break, you know, get away, whatever, go to this hotel. Right. And they show all the cool fun family stuff at this hotel and the kids running around. like real wholesome stuff kind of like, oh man, that seems kind of nice.

And a few of the clips are like, you know, the parents cheering their wine and they're like tropical drinks. And they didn't say, hey, there's alcohol in here, but it's like obviously alcohol. Like that's what they're selling, you know? Yeah. I mean, the wine was obviously alcohol too. But it's like just, and it's just it. That's just part of it.

You know, it's not like a big deal. And they're not saying, hey, wink, wink, wink, you can, if you really want it, you can have some of this stuff. If you really want to go hard. They're not saying that. They're saying, hey, this is part of the family, wholesome, refreshing, recuperative experience of our awesome hotel. Yeah.

Like, oh, yeah, by the way, alcohol, too, by the way, in that one. So, hell yeah, come get it, you know, kind of a thing. And to be honest, it seemed kind of nice. The little ad was like, oh, that looks kind of nice. But I was like, huh, interesting. They slid it in there. Slid it right in there. All right, so you quit drinking.

What do you notice when you quit drinking? Like, what, how long did it take you to start feeling the effects of a lot? like I'm not drinking anymore. Now I'm not drinking. It's been this many days. Well, immediately. And I've always known this and asked like Greg Jane, right? Greg McIntyre.

I always talk to him about drinking. Even when I was drinking, we just talk about it, the effects or whatever. If I go like one day without drinking the next day not feeling that drag, bro, I feel like Superman. I was like, bro, no wonder guys can work so hard. They feel like freaking they have endless energy, you know, because I'm so used to dragging, you know. Yeah. But for whatever reason, it just didn't, you know, take hold or whatever. But so, of course, I feel that.

Like, you just have any, you're not dragging. And when you're used to dragging, like, for just literally, like, a decade of dragging pretty much every day as the norm. And now you're not dragging. You're like, holy cow, it's like you shed like a big ball and chains just cut loose, you know? I was going to say you've been wearing a weight vest, 20-pound weight vest for the last fucking 10 years. Mentally, that's literally what it feels like. And then it's weird because that feeling just gets stronger and stronger as like the weeks go on. So you're like, holy cow, like I didn't know like it was weird.

Like I always had this happen where I'd be dragging. And if you drink it enough, I given the kind of the research or whatever I've done, it's like it kind of gets literal depression. Because you're like your chemical balance or whatever kind of gets imbalanced in that way because it's like this cycle and all this stuff. So I'd feel that. super strong, but I'd feel it every once in a while where I'd be like, what is this don't? Like, life is kind of like pointless in a way. It's not suicidal, nothing like this, but it's just kind of like, all right, you work and you do this and it's like, who, I mean, but why does that even matter? You know, you go down this weird spiral. It's not super powerful, but it's there. And I'm like, I, yeah, I don't

know, whatever. All right, cool, whatever. And then I'd go. No, no, no, no, no, no, I'd go workout and I do a hard workout because like I said I got into a point to the point where I could totally do a sick workout being hung over I go do a workout and after maybe the first two three like hard sets boom this rush of like oh my gosh life has so much more meaning now and I don't know why I know it's not because I worked out and life is freaking you know life is lifting I'm not saying that but it was just this more like this little bit and it kind of is but it was just more of a feeling And I was like, there's some chemical shit going on in my head that that is causing me to feel like this. And this working out hard like this is kind of helping me balance it out.

So that feeling that the workout at that moment, because it's happened a few times, that feeling just like is like constantly there. Yeah. So it's like every once in a while I'll be doing some normal everyday shit. And then I'll be like, why am I having so like, why am I enjoying this so much right now? And then usually I'll say it because Sarah knows that I stopped drinking or you even, a lot of times I'll be like, like how I said, isn't jujitsu just so freaking awesome or whatever? Like that one I'm having those feelings, like I'll express it to anyone around who can appreciate it. I'll be like, you know how freaking cool it is to not drink or what? You know, I'll say that sometimes is because of that reason because you start appreciating everything more.

And I did anyway. And as the weeks kind of went on, it just got more powerful. more and more powerful, you know. So that was it. That was the experience. So now all these ideas that you're like, hey, I need to do more of this or I need to start this or whatever. You're just freaky.

Hey, it's time. Let's do it. Let's start it. And then you just do it. You know, you follow through with way more stuff. So I'd say, yeah, that's the impact for sure. So you, did you tell Sarah, your wife, did you say, hey, I quit drinking? or did you like she said oh do you want me to make you a drink and you're like no I'm good

and the next day she said do you want me to make your drink you said no I'm good and I think I don't really need it you know like I didn't like tell her and I'm trying to remember because again it wasn't like this big deal I was just because and let's face it like I've probably said I think I'm done with drinking a bunch of times before so maybe you felt like maybe you didn't need to say it again yeah exactly right that's all I would have felt point you Yes, to say it like, hey, I'm there. But I did end up saying it and I said, but I said, hey, I think I'm kind of done with drinking. I just said that.

And she was like, yeah, me too. You know, she'll see that. So what? She just got on board? Well, I think in the moment, she thought, okay, we're going to try this again, you know, kind of a thing. And then I didn't drink. And she was like, after a few days, she was like, oh, shoot, I'm, I think I'm with you, you know, kind of a thing. And then she's feeling good.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think most of us are like this. where it's like, oh shit, that's what we're doing. Okay, I can sign on to that, you know, like unless it's like some bad decision, you know, so it was kind of that going on.

And then, yeah, so that was, that was it. Did you take the alcohol out of your house? I didn't, I didn't, no. Do you feel like temptation? No. So, no. What's your favorite alcoholic beverage? Vodka soda with lemon.

Vodka soda with lemon. And like, do you have that, do you have that in your house right now? I don't know. I don't know. Do you have any desire where you're kind of like feeling like it? No. So I'm trying to think of it.

Have I ever had that sense? Every once in a while, here's, this is weird. Anytime I hear like an old song that I used to like a lot. Because really, when I really analyze my feelings, it's more like the benefit that alcohol did bring in the short term was like I could

feel more. Like I could feel like, oh, the feeling like, you know, if you really get into a certain song, you know, the feeling. It was like, oh man, if I had a beer to help enjoy this, it was more of that.

So I'll be like, oh, man, if I had to like to really immerse myself in the feeling, but it's such a fleeting feeling, you know? It's like once the song ends, you're like, whatever, that was a dumb thought kind of thing. So it was that. I will say this, though, and this is kind of important too, where it's nothing new, but it's really, I am convinced this is a massive, massive deal where, okay, so when I go out to sushi, I always drink sake. So I went out to sushi a few times once with my son, no sake for probably the first time in a long time. It was just me and him, though, he's seven. No sake.

So I was like, oh, freaking, it was way better with him. Like, way better than my memories of going and drinking sake. I don't think I've ever gone with just him before, but nonetheless, I remember thinking, man, this is better. I'm like talking to him more and way more into this. Now, a few weeks later, I went with my cousin. And I hadn't seen him for a while or whatever And I went out to sushi

And it was cool, really cool to see him But it was not fun. It wasn't as fun at like If you would have been drinking a little bit Yeah, it's good to see you cuz Yes, exactly right And I think it was mainly because You know, it's your cousin.

No, he doesn't drink at all either. Okay, well. Yeah, so it was good overall. Of course it was a great time catching up with him All this stuff, but put it this way And it probably had a lot to do with my expectation because him, he's a professional comedian. So I'm thinking festive, festive, party time.

See what I'm saying? But it was a lot more mature. That's what it was. It was a mature interaction, which was cool. But I think comparing it to my expectation, it was like, oh, shoot, it wasn't the party that I almost, I guess in a way, expected, you know? So there was that. So what's the big deal?

You said this is a big deal. Oh, because when you go in certain environments, like if put it, this way he doesn't drink and he was with his girlfriend as well and and she said oh yeah i drink but not really so it's not like she's gonna start drinking when i just when we're talking about not drinking so none of us were drinking so if he were to in that moment if he were to be like oh yeah like yeah i drank freaking let's get some sake come on like all good not in a pressure way i'm just saying like if you were to offer that up as an option and i and i and i was like oh yeah fuck yeah i started drinking soccer whatever i wouldn't have been surprised at all because of that you know things

thing and there's all these rationalizations that you can go through like in your head wait if he just said that you think you would have been drinking yeah that night yeah yeah even though you quit drinking yeah because I I didn't if it's weird because it doesn't feel like I like drew a line in the sand I just I just came to the realization drinking doesn't help you you know kind of a seems a little bit sketchy yes it does yeah seems a little bit seems like that might be a it might be an indicator that a line in the sand would be better That's why I think Aline in the Sand is better.

And we're a lot more reliable. So now, hopefully after this podcast comes out, people will just be like, oh, yeah, I go quit drinking. And hopefully they won't be like, oh, let's see if we can get him to drinking. Yeah. We'll put it to say, if someone tried to get me to drink, then now it's like another thing. Now it's a challenge me and you.

And I'm winning. I feel like it anyway. That's an additional. Unless I put on that special song and I offer you some sushi and sake. And then I start vibe me now. The best way to do it is be a person who doesn't know any better and want to some sake with me, then yes, I will. You're giving people the game plan.

Yeah, yeah, if you can pull it off, whatever. Now you can be suspect of people that act like they don't really know you and just act like they're trying to have fun and actually just offer you some soup. Yeah, it's going to be to on purpose pull that off. I don't know, it doesn't seem like it'd work. But yeah, that's why I say it's a big deal because you can go in a certain specific environment and relapse real easy. especially if you can justify it like that.

Yeah, well, like the alcoholic anonymous thing is like people, places and things. Yeah. You can't see the people you used to see. You can't go to the places you used to go and you can't do the things you used to do if they have to do with alcohol. So you can't go see your old, you know, buddy Fred

who likes to get liquored up. You can't go to the bowling alley because that's where I used to drink. You get liquored up. So that's, oh, and then I can't bowl because that's the thing that I do or fish or whatever. whatever thing I'm doing and drinking.

So you know why that is the thing? What is it? What would bowling be? People places. People place things. So if you go. Okay. So let's go places,

right. So if you're used to going bowling, in my case, going to sushi with friends and tricking, talking. So a lot of times. Just a habit. Yeah.

It's like habit. It's a habitual thing, but like there's more to it, it feels like. There's something a lot more compelling. Because habit seems like something where you should just snap your brain and get out of the habit. Like,

I feel like that's kind of the thing. even though I know there's more to a routine, routine, habit, but almost on a level of necessity. So like if I go to sushi or if, let's say I go bowling, and I'm like, okay, now when I go bowling, I don't drink beers now. And I go, and now bowling is really boring now because all that, like, association kind of works off each other, you know,

to make this experience. Now that one lacking element provides this experience that's not as fun. It's not as, quote unquote, pleasurable because of all that, you know. So now you're in that same experience. and now it's super boring. So now you're kind of angry like, hey, man, I had this thing that was a enjoyable experience,

part of my routine, my tradition, my whatever, you know, my whole thing. And now I don't like it. So you kind of rebel against that and add that ingredient again. You know, it's like that idea is super strong, you know? So it's hard to defeat unless you really kind of dig deep and analyze it for what it is.

You were telling me that you feel like you can control your brain now more. Yeah, it's true. Which is like mind control from freaking Discipline or Freedom field manual. Now you feel what I feel. Yeah, I do actually. And that went through my mind so much where I'm like, freaking this is how Jocko does it.

He just doesn't drink. You know, it's like, I know there's more to it than that. I know. But the feeling is that night and day where, you know, the idea of, hey, you want to do something, right? You want to do something for yourself or with yourself or, you know, you have some goal you have or whatever. Things, it's nothing huge.

like freaking i want to lose you know how easy or you know how simple it is to lose weight if you want to lose weight you know simple it is to work out every day like if you were like hey your life like if you had like some terror like terrorist person and was like hey i'm going to kill you if you don't work out five days a week this week i'm going to kill you the moment that the it turns midnight and you haven't worked out i'm gonna kill you's right there and you can't kill him bro you'd easily do that it wouldn't be a problem so it's like it's super simple to do it you just essentially find reasons not to, right. So excuses. Exactly right. excuses, right. So excuses are powerful, but they're only as powerful as you allow them to be. So if you can, if you say, okay, I'm going to,

you know, I'm going to set this goal, short term, medium term, whatever. And then you don't do it. You can't control your mind. You for real can't control your mind. Because somewhere along the line, you said, yeah, I said I'd do that, but I'm not going to do that, you know, kind of thing. It's like, bro, you can't control your mind for some reason. I mean, I don't know where the disconnect is but for some somewhere you lost control of your mind that's a crazy thing to think about like we think about the power of the human will and people make all kinds of goals and they just never do them just choose not to do it's just like no I'm instead going to freaking sit around and watch Netflix yeah that's actually what they do oh yeah yep exactly right

that's very crazy so you know how you your whole it's half joke it's probably a half joke it's probably like one percent joke the rest truth even though it sounds like a joke you know how you're like, oh, how is a donut more powerful than your mind or whatever? You know, like the old school that whole Oregon's sugar-coded lies, like that thing. So really think about that. In actual boots on the ground, freaking reality, real life. It's a real thing. Think about that.

Like, I do not like, let's say, I don't know, let's say it's an aesthetic thing, right? You'd like, I don't like the way, I don't know, my body looks. Or I don't like my health, my current health. Health. The most important thing. Probably, yeah. If you lose your health, you lose whatever. Yeah, the most important thing, you only get one body, like, you know, that whole thing, really analyze it for what it is.

So now, this donut is literally a step backwards now, right? And the donut isn't a person who's like. It's not a manipulative creature. Bro, it's just existing. It's literally just existing. Like, you can literally close your eyes and it doesn't even, you can't even see it. Like, it's not like. And you can't really smell a donut too much, most of them.

And here's the thing. That doesn't matter either. Yeah, the thing could, you could literally, like, throw it down the can. And it'd be done. Throw it in the trap is gone, you know? It's not a thing that follows you around and forces that your hand behind your back or you got to like tap or nothing like that. It's like just existing.

Yeah. And you're like, okay, I'm going to do this with my health. It's like going out. You know, we have the grappling dummy. Yeah. Which is, for those of you don't know what that is, it's like a punching bag with arms, but just a stuffed punching bag with arms. Imagine you walk out on the mats and you get tapped by that thing.

That's what happens when you eat a donut. Literally. It's like something that. beats you that has no mind of its own. Yeah. Can't even move towards you. Can't do anything. And yet you go out there and you just trip over the grappling dummy and break your arm.

I mean, you're absolutely right. It's like it's like not even an analogy. It's almost like literally that's what you're doing because the grappling dummy, like your mind made it into a grappling dummy. It's just cotton and freaking leather and in cloth like put together in a certain. And your mind was like, ooh, that looks like a person. Yeah. Now it's over there in the corner. And you chose to walk over there and you didn't trip over it.

You walked and got into the triangle choke of the, you put his legs over. You put energy into putting his legs over your head under your arm. And then like squeeze, you squeezed it. He didn't squeeze. That's just cotton. Cotton doesn't squeeze nothing. You squeezed it and then tapped and be like, man, I just didn't have the skill today. You know, just had a bad day.

No, he didn't. You had the skill. You had everything. And then you chose to do it. Expended energy. by a freaking piece of cloth. Yep, exactly right. The same exact thing.

And here's the thing. It's not like you just tapped out in whatever. With the donut, you literally is taking a step backward with, in a very important, one of the most important things that you have in your whole life. And you took a step backwards just because you couldn't control your mind. That's why. And you feel like you have more mind control now that you're not drinking? 100%. 100%.

Hey, what about, I know one of the biggest things that you say you take. take away from the podcast in general is the ability to see though strategic vision the big picture the long term plan as opposed to the short term gratification tactical what i'm doing right now today do you feel like the big picture the long term strategic plan has become more clear and easier to navigate towards yes sir the big time actually i would even go one step further than say it became clear because before I realized it was there so like moment to moment you're like okay you can make the evaluation but you now I feel like I can like actually see it for what it is like this actual real existing kind of thing yeah I feel like I have way more access to it now so you have this

focus you can control your brain you understand the big picture you go through life you'd heard you always hear people tell you that you know alcohol is not good for you I told you you know I mean I never was like dude you shouldn't I don't think I ever said to you you shouldn't drink you give me more shit about getting a Coke the first time you like a coke a soda Coca-Cola yeah more than you ever did about anything drinking yeah well I don't like that high fruit toast corn syrup going into your you know into your gut you're offended but you heard that but you never really understood the power of not drinking you know what I'm Like as many people said, oh yeah, it's a waste, it's poison, it's all this stuff.

You never said to yourself, you know what? I mean, for a long time, for 10 years of drinking. You never said to yourself, you know what? Actually, more than 10 years, probably 15 years of drinking. You never said to yourself, my life would be way better if I stopped, right? Now that you've stopped, is it even better than you thought it would be? Or you had heard it would be? It is on par.

And keep in mind, it's exactly. how I put it this way. I never really actually imagined it. I just knew it as like kind of like the answers to a test almost, you know, like kind of like if someone were to ask me, hey, would your life be better or worse without drinking? I'd be like better because I know that that's true. I can't feel it though. I didn't feel, you know, you don't know it, know it. Yeah, how much better? How does that look when I do this? How did that look? I never really thought real deep into that part of it. I was just basically going moment to moment, you know, like so if I could pull it off, you know, one day, one week without drinking, then I could feel it, you know, but I didn't really like,

I guess I failed to formulate any kind of like structure or plan or vision into the future, you know, I was like, cool, I did it and I know that's good for me, you know, but who now I can kind of cut loose and whatever, you know, kind of a thing. It was like a moment to moment kind of thing. I think once it kind of takes hold and then you recognize it for what it is and then you kind of get exposed to in a real way what you could be doing and what your life could be and you're exposed to it actually happening. And then you say, okay, I choose right now to pursue this and not pursue this. And go back to what freaking K-Dog Carey Hilton said, where you just go binary, go be like, okay, hey, I could either go this path and be like, hey, my life is going to go to shit.

every single time. And in real life, it doesn't go to shit every single time, level 10. It doesn't. But it might go level 0.1. Or more 0.5 or 1. Yeah, exactly right. And here's the thing. Whether it adds up or not, I mean, it does add up.

Yes. Oh, freak out, obviously. But it doesn't matter. You're choosing to go negative per, like, per like event. You're choosing it as opposed to the other choice, go positive. So it's like, okay. So I could either go here where my life goes to shit every single time. or I could go here where my life improves every single time and doesn't end.

So then you kind of, if you can kind of formulate that whole structure in your head and be like, I choose this one, right? It does become a lot easier for sure. Well, I have noticed in the past few months since camp that your productivity is higher. Your attitude is better.

I mean, you never have like a bad attitude, but your attitude is better. I mean, even coming to train. Yeah. You know? I used to like last. when you show up to train I'd be like oh you're gonna train today huh now you're you're in

there ready to go yes sir you're you're uh I'd say benefiting across the board what's crazy to me is like what else is like that yeah you know what else is it is what about your phone like in the social media that you're looking at or what about the food that you're eating or what about like the cold exposure like what little what little things are out there jihitsu a lot of people don't know that that can put a smile on your face right a lot of of people don't know that kind of thing so it is definitely it is definitely and it's interesting what's interesting about having you on here is you know most people that stop drinking they they have been number one they're alcoholics and maybe i don't know there's a severity for alcoholism but

they're like most people that quit drinking they quit drinking because like they hit rock bottom right that's a thing yeah got to hit rock bottom and i would say you did not hit rock bottom No. But you realized how much further you could go. Yeah. You know, it's like you didn't have to fall out of the tree to hit rock bottom, but you looked up and saw that there's a lot more altitude to gain, and you ain't getting it if you're hitting a bottle every night.

I believe so, yeah. So let's stay clean, everybody. Yeah, I would say my, I like these little metaphor, like little vision, where you can kind of have like a vision of it, a quantified. like vision and it's almost like alcohol is this um is this little devil that and let's face it the devil can offer up some cool things yeah you know devil that's what they that's what the devil does the deal with the devil yeah exactly the devil doesn't yeah the devil doesn't offer you up things that look bad the devil offers you up things that look good yeah it's suckered in exactly right and the and the

more you justify it the more the devil's like yes yes yes you know you're like no no but it's not it's helping me in this creative way or it's like it's not a problem you know I do it to have more fun with my friends, build relationships, you know, all this stuff. Where by the devil's in there going, yes, yes, yes, exactly. Like more of that, more of that, you know, kind of a thing. But really what the devil is doing, it's finding its way into a bunch of parts of your life. In fact, the more the better. The more parts of your life that the devil can find his way into, the better for him.

And then his goal is to just fuck it all up. And the more you justify it, the more he's like, yes, yes, allow me into this part too, you know. It's like, yeah, man, you're stressed right now. I can help you with that. Like, let me help you with your stress, by the way. Put some alcohol on your stress. That'll help. That'll help, you know.

It'll help for the next hour. You can't think straight. You forget about the fact that that stress is there. Then you wake up and the stress is more. Oh, yeah. And then, you know what? Then you'll need me a little bit more. Don't worry.

I'll be there. I'll be there for you until you die. It's true. Quit drinking out there if you're drinking. Doesn't help you. Get some help. need it but the alcohol is not going to do it um anything else echo charles that's it hey look don't be drinking that but you know what you can drink you can drink one of these right here you can drink

you drink some jaco go you can drink some greens for our greens are good and they give you that they give you everything you need joccofuel dot com get some hydrate get some go get some mulk get everything that you need to support your body don't be mixing don't be mixing go with alcohol by the way yeah some people have done it They call it a jocktail. Okay. As opposed to a cocktail. That sounds cute for sure.

Yeah. But kind of defeats the purpose a little bit. We're not doing that. Why even drink, actually in a way. And hey, no offense. I'm not judging any person. Because it gives you energy. Because it gives you energy to get more wild.

But we know why we drink this one instead of the bad one. Yeah. This one's better for you. Yeah, it tastes good. You know, all this stuff. But you're kind of defeating the purpose. Honestly, if you're going to, if you're going to mix drinks, I would rather you at least have it be more healthy first.

But I would really prefer if you just didn't drink any alcohol That's my recommendation. I'll tell you there was a there was you know we got a question on the underground a while ago and a guy had written in you know like can I just have one or two drinks a month or whatever Yeah, yeah and I said you know what and it was really in a time this is I don't know maybe six months ago And I was I kind of had an answer in my head of like listen if you can drink you know you can have a one or two drinks not that big of a deal that's normal and people carry on and and and and I just couldn't say it man Yeah, I just couldn't say it I was like you know what I just can't get behind alcohol. I just can't do it. I've known too many people

that have lost too much in their lives to alcohol. You know, everything from people that have, you know, spend all their money, people that have drank themselves to death, people that have wrecked their relationships, got divorced, end up killing themselves.

Like, it's a terrible, it's such a huge part of all that negativity. Why do it? Why do it? And look, if you're out there kicking ass, and you think yourself, well, I'm kind of like echo. You know, I still do my job. I still get everything done.

I can still go to work out in it. Imagine how much better you could be if you didn't have that ball and chain around your ankle. If you didn't have that weight vest on. So don't do it. That's my recommendation. I do recommend jacofuil. Joccofuel. You can get it Wawa.

You can get a vitamin shop, GNC, military commissaries, Afeas, Hanifers, Dachers, Wakefurn, Shoprite, H-E-B down in Tejas. What's up, Texas? We were just down there for the muster. Oh, yeah. Outstanding. Outstanding event. Meyer, up in the Midwest, Harris Teeter, Lifetime Fitness, Shields, small gyms everywhere.

You know, you got a Jiu-Git-J-T Gym, you got a CrossFit gym, you got a powerlifting gym. You want to get some J-Cof-Fuel in there? Email, J-F Sales at joccofuel.com. Also, don't forget about if you're training J-J-T, which you should, because they'll put a smile on your face. In many cases, in many cases, sometimes it won't. We get that. Sometimes you're going to get frustrated. Just making a fron.

here and there. Yeah. That's just the, the frowns or just the doms of jujitsu, the mental jams. Like sometimes you get really mad doing jiujitsu. You get caught, you do something stupid.

I'm gonna be honest. I've seen you, well, I've seen you appear really mad with Denglish a few times. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

a few times. Um, but I don't know that I've ever felt really actually mad in Jiu Jitsu ever. Yeah. You know when I got injured, I was, I was mad that I was injured,

but I was, if I'm injured. But I was glad I'm still doing Jiu-Jitsu though. Yeah, true. You know, it's like the live by the sword, die by the sword. Kind of a feeling. If you want JCOF Fuel there, get, go to J.F. Sales at joccofield.com. And if you need Jiu-Jitsu gear, wherever you are, go to originusa.com.

If you need jeans, wherever you are, if you need boots wherever you are. If you need, T-shirts, hoodies, rash cards, whatever you need, go to origin, USA.com and get American-made stuff. Don't support communism. Don't support slavery. Don't support child labor. Don't support poor quality products. Support an American-made product that is of the highest quality. OriginUSA.com.

Get what you need. Oh, yeah. There you go. Also, discipline equals freedom. This is true. It's true. The more discipline you are, the more free you are. Cut the ball and chain.

That's what it is. Freaking ball and chain. Yeah, but you want to represent on this path, Ray, we're on the path, drinking or not. Whether you chose to quit drinking yet. Yeah. Or not, we're still on the path. You want to represent jocco store.com, discipline equals freedom. Good.

These are good attitudes to have, by the way. That's where you can get your stuff. Hats and hoodies. Shirts, of course. Also, this shirt locker, by the way. I saw a lot of representation at the muster from the shirt locker. Really? Peaks a lot of people, other people's curiosity.

Yeah. Yep. When they say, yo. Yeah. You just made like a heavy metalish looking one. Pretty dope. Yeah, yeah, fully. And so a lot of them are like this, which I didn't realize,

but like when I see everyone kind of with it, it's almost like, you know, we know, we know, discipline equals freedom. We see you wearing the, you know, the deal. And you'll see like a new one. They'll be like, hey, where'd you get that one? Like, that one's like kind of cool. Like, where'd you get that one? I didn't see that one before.

But yeah, that's kind of the phenomenon in a way. Yeah. Good representations. There you go. Sure Locker. It's called the shirt locker. It's on Jocko Store. It's a cool subscription.

You get a new one every month, you know, a new design every month. It's cool on jocco store.com. You might also need steak, right? You might need ground beef. Go to Colorado Craftbeef.com. Freaking outstanding, outstanding steak.

And also primalbeef.com, which is out in Virginia, the Shenandoah Valley. So you got two options right there to get yourself some steak. They will deliver it to your door. And you can just grill it up. You can throw it. You can throw it in a pan and cook it two minutes, two minutes, two minutes, two minutes, two minutes, two minutes, two minutes.

What is it, total of eight minutes. And you probably got yourself a solid steak right there. Throw some pepper and some rock salt on it. Watch your heat, by the way. Yeah, don't get crazy. Don't get nuts. Yeah, don't get nuts on the heat. What heat would you say?

I would do a medium, wait, wait, do you put the, what do you call the top? The cover? Yeah, the cover. Nope, cover. Okay, no, no, no, no. I do the cover, but then I just go one minute, one minute, one minute, one minute, one minute, one minute, one minute, one minute only. Four minutes. Yep.

But with the top on. Okay. Because that's maintaining a lot of heat cooking it from multiple directions. I think so, yeah. Okay. So, you know, hey, we all have our process. Check those out. Awesome people, awesome companies that you can get into and you can also eat some awesome food.

So there you go. Also subscribe to this podcast. Also go to jocco underground.com and subscribe to that alternative podcast. Also, psychological warfare, flipside canvas.com, but from Dakota Meyer, all the different books that I've written. Check those things out. We have Eschelon Front. We just got back from the muster. A thousand people there.

It's been sold out for months. The next one is in San Diego. If you want to come to it, you've got to go register right now. We solve problems through leadership. Eschelonfront.com is the website. We also have online training. leadership is not something you can do one time and now you know how to do it just like you don't get in shape going to the gym one time you got to go every day so that's what we made the extreme

ownership academy for extreme ownership dot com you can go on there every day and you can learn leadership and you can review leadership and you can hone your leadership skills so you can handle everything that's going on in your business and in your life extreme Ownership.com. And if you want to help service members active and retire, you want to help their families. Gold Star families. Check out Mark Lee's mom. Mama Lee.

She's got an unbelievable charity organization. If you want to donate or you want to get involved, go to America's mighty warriors.org. Also, don't forget about Micah Fink. I just met a graduate from the Heroes and Horses.org program. Great individual from the Marine Corps that had been through the program was having having some real issues going to the program, comes out of the program like a new man. So thanks to Mike, I think for what he's got going on there.

Also, Jimmy May has got an organization to help people transition out of the military beyond the brotherhood.org. So check that out. And if you want to connect with us on the interwebs, we're on there. Echoes that, Echo Charles. I'm at Jocka Wallach.

Just watch out for the algorithm because it's a monster and it'll sneak up on you. It'll probably serve you a beverage to a drink, an alcoholic drink. Just get you to sit there and scroll. drunken scrolling This is bad news Don't let it happen

We'll see you on the on the interwebs But we're not going to be Part of that algorithm And thanks to all of our military personnel out there These are tenuous times Right now Very tenuous times The war drums are beating

And for us sitting back here in America Going oh we should do this And we should do that And it's all of you out there in uniform that actually answer the call. So thank you for what you all do. And also thanks to our police, law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers,

correctional officers, border patrol, Secret Service, and all first responders. Thank you for answering the call here at home. And to everyone else out there, I'm going to give you some guidance from Lemmy of Motorhead, another band that puts some bricks in the path for me and help me out as a kid. Lemmy says, so you see the only proof of what you are is in the way you hear the truth.

Grab a hole, don't let go. Don't let them rob you of the only thing you know. Oh, no, no one else got the right to make you feel sorry for yourself. Stay clean. It's your only hope. So stay clean, everyone. And until next time, this is Echo and Jocko. Out.

Thank you.