Jocko Podcast - 44: Negative People, Entitled Team after Extreme Ownership, Managing with your Meyers-Briggs Personality Type.

Episode Date: October 12, 2016

0:00:00 - Opening 0:04:12 - Ways to avoid injury when starting Jiu Jitsu 0:23:31 - When do you use Decentralized Command with a new group. 0:35:05 - Workouts to become more relaxed in the water & help lower heart rate. 0:45:26 - Dichotomy of the ego.  When to check it and when to let it fly. 0:54:18 - Taking Extreme Ownership, and then the team gets ENTITLED. 1:05:57 - How to deal with toxic/negative people. 1:12:32 - Meyers Briggs personality types and how to avoid creating division in a team. 1:23:01 - How to deal with it when bad things happen to good people around you. 1:27:55 - Cool Internet/Onnit stuff.  Jocko Store, Amazon.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 44 with Echo Charles and me, Jocker Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. And the last podcast, number 43, went a little bit long. Sure. We did not get to the Q&A. And that's one of the nice things about having a podcast, having a forum that we actually own. can do whatever we want with if it goes long that's cool let it go along we can go

long we can go down that road now some people might say oh you went too far down that road okay that's fine press stop go proceed somewhere else some people say I wish you would have gone further down that road so we're just kind of going off of instinct here what to me like okay think we think we think we went far enough down that road we're good there but we did not get to Q and A and so that's what we're going to do today do some Q&A questions from the interwebs which is always good a lot of people tons of questions definitely appreciate all the questions that are coming through and I'm I apologize I can't get to all of them I will say this I've talked to some some troopers out in the

field and they're there they're like it we know what you're going to say like when a question comes which is awesome that means I'm working myself out of a job if you're out there and you already know what the answer the question is that's awesome that means cool you figured out you know what you need to go educate someone else go help someone else go so it's cool that people are starting to understand I think the the holistic mindset that's going on here and that's very positive to me now that being said there's always questions that come through sometimes even I'm go okay well let me think about that one and some of them are

really obvious I got on you know I got on on Twitter the other day somebody asked me somebody said hey what have you learned about people or about humans since you you know kind of entered the world of social media on a large scale and I wrote back that I've figured out that humans don't Google things before they ask you the question on Twitter. Because sometimes people just ask me, you know, just a question that you could Google faster. They'll ask me about a, you know, just some quote, not one of my quotes, but a Shakespeare quote or a book or a military unit, you know, man, man, Google that.

Don't ask me. If you want to ask me a specific question that I might know something, that's cool. That's awesome. I'm more than happy to answer. Also, I get asked 12 times. a day, what time do you go to sleep at night? So I just write 11. And people aren't laughing about that.

Anyways, but we do get some awesome questions from the interwebs as well. And the other thing that's cool about answering questions from the interwebs is it does make me think about that specific situation that someone's in. And A, have I experienced it before? Which maybe I have, maybe I haven't. I've at least probably seen it before or. some version of it. But then once you answer a question about it,

it quantifies it in your brain. It solidifies it in your brain. And now when I get asked that question again, I'm like, boom, I can answer it more. I can answer it with a little more authority because I've seen it before. Yeah. That makes it better.

So basically what I'm saying is, when I get forced to answer questions, I am learning. Just like when I'm reading a book, I'm learning, when I'm answering a question, I'm learning. Yeah. It's like when you teach it, move. When you teach you moving jih Tutsu, you get better at that move.

No doubt about it. And that's why it is beneficial for me. And I appreciate all these questions that everybody asked me because they make me smarter. Yeah. So, all right. Rock and roll. All right. Question number one.

This one was for you and Sam Harris. Sam Harris. That's right. Sam Harris is in here, by the way. But the question is, I would like to start BJJ training, but worry about. about injury. What are your thoughts? Now, I actually,

we had these questions prepared for, to answer on the tail end of 43, and I will say this. People want to know what's in my mindset about things. You know, what am I thinking? Here's one thing, and you might notice this pattern. If you pay attention, close attention to the podcast,

you might notice there's a pattern that usually after these crazy dark books, I usually roll that first question in the question and answer period. is about jujitsu. Like, let's just relax a little bit, man. Somebody posted, somebody,

BJJ Caveman came enrolled with me. Yeah. And someone was telling me, someone that I know was telling me like, yeah, my friend saw the picture, the video of you rolling. And they were like,

he looks like the happiest I've ever seen him. And I was like, well, yeah, I was on the mat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's the general idea between let's just go

from the intensity generally of a combat situation from a book into all right now we can take a wrap off and we can talk about jujitsu yep i like that yeah makes sense for sure so bjj training and you're worried about injuries that makes sense actually i got some i've got to ask this question a few times people that rely on their hands to work uh one guy's professional actually two guys were professional guitarists oh yeah yeah

and they're sketched out about doing jiu jitsu uh Anybody that has a job that relies on a lot of physicality, you are at risk because you're doing a sport. Now, injuries absolutely happen in jiu-jitsu. It is a contact sport, and you can get injured while you're doing it. You can get injured in any sport that you do. Any sport that you do. The worst, I hurt my knee.

I had an 80% tear on my MCL. Did it surfing. You know, Ben Heel. hooked by Dean Lister of thousands, thousands and thousands of times, never had a knee injury. I'm out surfing and hurt my knee. So you can get hurt doing anything, but so you have to be careful, right? And I think one of the best, one of the most critical ways to be careful in Jiu-Jitsu is by make sure that you're picking the right training partners.

Yeah. Because there's some knucklehead training partners at every gym, and they're a 22-year-old male who has a lot of testosterone and has a very sensitive ego and so he's looking just to crush everyone so you gotta watch out for that guy and actually I shouldn't I shouldn't actually

paint that so broad brush because there's plenty of people that are that are older people with the big ego and younger people there's just basically you gotta watch out for these knuckleheads that are going to go crazy yeah some people don't know better too you know they're just They just happen to be big and strong.

And they're not being knuckleheads. They're just like, they're getting it. They told me to grab the arm and pull. I'm trying to pass that guard. I don't know that much technique. I'm just going to go hard. Yeah, no, you're right. They're not intentionally being aggressive,

but jihadists is an aggressive sport. And if you happen to be 260 pounds, that can be problematic. So you want to fly, and I know it sounds weird. If one goes, some purple belt that's just going to run through me. No, actually you do.

The purple belt, the chance of you getting hurt. by a purple belt are infinitely less than you're getting hurt by a white belt. Absolutely true. And the higher you go up, the more accurate that is, unless, of course, you're a, you're a problem. Right. Or you're a bully.

And there needs to be a regulatory situation happening, in which case a black belt is not going to, you know. He won't injure you, though. That's the thing. It's like, I think when you enter fighting sports, punishment isn't being beat up. You get beat up. That's part of the game. true it's more it's more of like an embarrassment thing or like just like oh

yeah yeah like they're gonna wear you out you know or make you look like you suck or it's it's it's it's it's more of like a lesson thing in that way it's not like getting beat up I I agree with you now another piece of this and I I this is just a reality okay doing stand-up you have a higher chance of getting hurt like doing takedowns going hard takedowns yeah either judo style takedowns or resting style takedowns, you have a higher chance of getting a knee injury or an ankle injury, there's no doubt about it.

So be careful. Just think about what you're doing there with stand-ups. You know, if you're a person that's, you know, you've got to learn some basic takedowns, absolutely. But do you need to step in there night after night and get your full-on wrestling practice together? If you're a 43-year-old person that, you know, you're a 43 year old cop that's working the beat you know you need to know take downs don't get me

wrong you need to train them you need to study me and you make sure you know to do them do them do you need to outrestle somebody in a in a wrestling situation probably not you know you're you're not going to need to do that so just use caution with takedowns um make sure you know how to do them but as you get to where you want to not get injured is your point of your primary thoughts in training, then just be careful to stand up. Obviously, do a good warm-up, and this is something I'm just the worst

perpetrator of not warming up well. I like to warm up by rolling. And actually now I do usually do one round where I'm just kind of chilling and just kind of rolling flow. But I used to not even do that. I used to just clap hands and go. So don't do that. Obviously, keep your ego and check.

And I'll say another thing. And I was talking about this with Greg Train the other day, because Greg Train popped his rib. Yeah. And he was just saying to me, his ribs recovered now, but he was saying to me, you know, he's like, I think you don't get injured because you work out all the time. And I'm like, I agree with you 100%. So I believe that you should work out on a regular base. And somebody just asked me, do you train and lift on the same days? Yeah, absolutely.

I train and lift. I train and lift every day. So get your workout program going on You know make sure you maintain that Some people when they start doing Jiu-Jitsu They're going so crazy That they use all this muscle And so they go I'm not gonna work out

Because I'm just getting a workout no wrong answer Keep working out And matter of fact you should And I always encourage working out lifting Doing your METCON doing whatever Before you do Jiu-Jitsu That's what I do I want to be tired when I show up to Jit-to

And fight in a worse scenario You know make it harder for my I don't want to show up and and be all fresh and like that's going to happen every day. No, I like to be tired, worn out, stressed system and then show up and still get after it on the mats. Yeah, that part's pretty advanced though to do it like that. I mean, being new is the question. I've done that the whole time. Yeah.

And I've done that too before and good. Yeah. Do you work out after? You lift weights after you train jitza? I've done both. Okay. What do you do normally? I do one and like I don't do two days.

Normally. Oh, so when you roll into the mat, you're like all fresh. In a matter of speaking. Fresher than I would be if I did a workout before. Yes. Put it that way. That's cool. As of right now, that is how it is.

Yes, for sure. But before and even when I was training for competition and stuff. Oh, yeah. And even, yeah, like maybe like two years, three years ago maybe. Yeah, I'd work out. I'd do the workout first. and then go roll out like at any I think that's the plan as much as you can work on your flexibility yeah and this is something that I again this is a big fail area in my book I'm not flexible as I

should be and if you are more flexible your injury levels are going to go down yeah so you know stretch and it's real easy stuff that you know everyone says to do you know when you're sitting there on the mat even when you're sitting on the mat and the teacher's teaching you know try to go to Lotus position try and you just do stretches while you're doing that if you're sitting around just stretch while you're sitting around while you're working on your computer sitting away that you're getting some kind of stretch so so stretch and be flexible as much as

you can now another thing I kind of talked about guitarists and anybody you know a surgeon anybody that's working with their hands and wants to protect their fingers I would recommend maybe emphasizing more no gey when you're not grabbing onto that gie all the time yeah yeah

fingers get caught up in there and he needs to do it There's something too. You can yank them. Actually, yeah, every time pretty much. It's fairly common. I actually,

my worst finger injury was actually no ghee. So that's, and I only did it a couple months ago, which is just, and it was just a bizarre, you know,

it was a bizarre incident. I, it was one of those things. So that's why it's really hard for me to just straight up encourage somebody that needs their fingers.

Like, no, no, no, no, you can get her. Now, I've had one, Finger injury, you know, significant finger injury in 20 plus years. So you can get a finger injury cutting the carrots on the, you know, in the kitchen. So, you know, you got to be careful, but there's no guarantee that you're not going to hurt.

And I'll tell you, and the other thing is, I will say this. You got some chance of getting injured, right? But there's also some massive physical and mental benefits that will likely outweigh the injuries, the perceived injuries or the possible injuries that you might get. So you're just going to be healthier. Your fingers are going to be stronger. Yeah.

I mean, yeah, you might get some injured fingers, but you are also going to have fingers that are stronger. Your grip is going to be stronger. So that's beneficial. Your mind is going to be stronger. Your cardiovascular system is going to be stronger. So there's a lot of benefits to Jiu-Jitsu

that outweigh, in my mind, the possibility of having an injury. Yeah. I mean, a possibility of having a catastrophe. catastrophic injury is pretty small, especially if you train smart. It really is. Agree. Absolutely agree.

Yes. And when you think about it, even of the people that you know, over 20 years, that's a lot of people that you know, who's had any kind of major injury? Well, if you count, it depends what you count as a major injury. But, you know, if you blow out your knee, that means you're going to be down. You're going to be six months of surgery or whatever. Surgery and six months of rehab and then another three months before you can train. That's, you know, that's a year.

And that could be, some people consider that catastrophic injury. I know I would be devastated. But at the same time, you know, I got neck surgery. I was out for a bit. Don't even remember it now. Flash in the pan, who cares, whatever. Deal with it. I played more guitar during that time.

You know what I mean? Good times. Yeah. And in reference to this question, man, this is anything you do. Guys on the basketball court all the time. Oh, for sure. Go up for just recreational basketball, pick up game, weekend, whatever, Her blood on the knee, ankle, whatever, you know.

I had, I mean, I've been in the game, what, 12 years. I had won because I was getting nuts in a tournament, bicep tear, major injury, you know, out for, you know, a year or whatever. But other than that, never been injured because of a submission. That's a lot of training, too. Yeah. In full speed training, competition, like everything. As far as submission holds go, never been injured. In a submission.

You know how, like, guys, double-tacket timer. You should definitely. If you're a smart jujitsu player, you'll never get injured from somebody trying a submission on you because you tap. Yeah, you tap. And look, it's not going to not hurt. You know, if you tap too late, usually it's just you get hurt. Maybe your shoulders kind of whatever for a week or, but you can still train. It's not an injury.

Put it that way. You know, and even if, yeah, even if you're big, small, I think that's pretty common. It's really rare that I see, oh, my ACL is out because of a heel hook. Maybe in competition because you're trying to win. You weren't trying to tap. There's a few. Okay, but yeah, generally speaking, it's surprising almost that it's that safe. It is.

When you consider what the objective of the sport is to break and destroy people's limbs. Yeah. The fact that it rarely happens. I know. It just rarely happens. Yeah. So, yes, be careful. There's no guarantees, but train.

Back to the training partner's part. You know, when you, the first where you're saying, um, be careful. you train with and stuff like that. So sometimes, especially like let's say if you're older or even if you're a girl and you go in and you know, you're the only girl and, you know, some people, they like let's say the guy doesn't know any better and he's going hard. You can tell when he starts to go hard, sometimes it can be awkward to kind of say, hey, you know, like respectfully, I'm not going to roll with you because of, you know, it's kind of like asking someone to dance and them saying no. Yeah. You know, like, oh, it's like rejection. So it's awkward. So sometimes people will just

tough it out and be like, oh, you know, like, all just try to endure. I think if you can go through that and really look out for yourself where the guy's going nuts, obviously usually he's not trying to go nuts and hurt you. That's pretty rare. But they don't know any better.

They're a white belt or whatever and they're just bigger and stronger or whatever and they're going nuts. You got to find a good tactful way to be like, hey, I respect you. But I'm concerned about like just my injuries or whatever. Just, you know what?

Hey, sorry, I only roll with people under 130 because I have a, you know, injured rib. Yeah, yeah. And there you go. Just, is that a white lie? Maybe it is. But I don't think it's a malicious situation.

Yeah, white lies are fine when you're breaking. Sam Harris, I apologize for telling people to tell a little white lie to save themselves massive injuries, catastrophic injuries. Yeah. But again, it's like telling someone know when they ask you to dance. You can tell white lies. Yeah. The fact is, you know, man, for my own reasons, I don't want to dance, you know?

Yeah, but it might be okay to say, oh, sorry, I'm here with Billy over there, and so I can't dance with you. And that's actually going to make you feel better than just like, hey, you know what? Actually, I don't like you. Yeah, yeah. You kind of disgust me, so I'm not dancing with you walk away. Right, yeah, exactly. Is it necessary to do that? Probably not.

Maybe the little white lie is okay. Helps, yeah. Again, Sam Harris, apologize. We're encouraging lying. Yeah. It's like, same, like, I'm not going to say, hey, you're a spas, you're a liability, you might hurt me because of what you don't know how to do, I'm not going to roll with you. That's different, you know?

You offended the guy. Yeah. Most likely. So actually, we're actually talking about that while you are on the jiu-sats, doing physical jiu-jitsu. Sometimes you've got to throw in a little mental jiu-jitsu in the situation and just manipulate a little bit, the mentality of your training partners. Yep, and that is in the spirit of safety. Indeed.

Because I don't think Jock would ever say that to anybody. You'd be like, oh, your spas, bring it on, if I'm not mistaken. We've got to deal with them, people. Next question. When dealing with new groups of folks. Before you go there. By the way, sometimes you should train with someone that's really spaz and harder and bigger than you. You should do that sometimes.

Now, you should use caution when you do it. Maybe you can get that. I would rather, if my, like my son, if I'm going to have him train with someone that's big and strong, I'm having to train with you. I'm having trained with Dean. Yeah. Because I know that you guys will give him enough strength to, you know, but you're not going to hurt him because he's only 140 pounds. Yes.

But I don't want to give the impression here. Like, sometimes you've got to roll with that. Sometimes you've got to roll with somebody that's big, strong and doesn't know what they're doing just so you're, now you and I know what to do there. But if you're a blue belt or a, or a, yeah, if you're a blue belt and a big red, A wrestler shows, and you weigh 165 pounds, and a wrestler shows up that weighs 240, and it's his third day. And you're a young guy, you know, it's a good idea to roll with that person. Because they're going to do things you aren't expecting. They're going to be trying really hard, and you want to be, you want to be, you want to train for yourself for the unexpected.

So basically, don't just, I'm not saying, when I say, you know, watch your training partners. I'm not saying for a normal person that's training, crawl into a safety bubble while you're on the mats. No, especially people that are young and fit. You should be training with every person you can. Every different body style, try them out, big wrestlers, small people, lanky people. Train with them all. Because that gets you used to all those different body styles,

it improves your game. I'm saying if you are very concerned about injuries, because you have a job that requires you to use your hands or walk or whatever, then you go, okay, you know what, I need to take the long, the long vision here, fight the long war, and really be selective on my training partners. Absolutely correct, yes.

Just like how, I mean, just like how the question is, I want to start jiu-jitsu, and I'm worried about it. Exactly. That guy, use your brain. Exactly.

But just like how you said, when you get to about Blue Belt, you've got to start introducing more challenges in different ways. And absolutely correct, man, because if you don't, if you don't, and you can,

let's say you're not used to, Let's say you're used to the same training partners all the time. And you train with, you know, blue belts, pro belts. There are specific and very effective jiu-jitsu moves for other jiu-jitsu, right? So it's like, don't turn your back. All these rules that are pretty fundamental that rarely should be broken. And we all know them. So you roll with a guy who's his third-days, the athletic wrestler.

He doesn't know those rules. But now, so he puts you outside of the whole format of jiu-jitsu. And if you don't know it, it's like, dang, it's almost like, my jiu-sitsits is not really working that good, you know? if you're not used to it. But if you are used to it, you'd be like, okay. And that's such a good technique to use with people, right?

When you're dealing with people, people, like people's personalities, people have a personality that that's how they deal with things. And they get people, they funnel people into their world. So if you have to break that, just step outside their world. Like, don't get drawn into people's worlds, right?

Don't get drawn into people's strengths. I mean, we talk about this all the time, but don't get drawn into their strength. Don't get drawn into their way of fighting. Because you're not going to be able to win that battle because you do it all day long, right? So just come at them from a different angle, usually disarm them somehow, instead of being confrontational,

this is just normal stuff, but instead of being confrontational with somebody, take a little flank and maybe, you know, massage their ego a little bit. But that's the exact same thing. If people have a way of doing things and you can get outside their pattern, you have a better chance of getting a victory. Yeah, yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, that works. All right.

When dealing with new groups of folks, when do you do decentralized command right away or gradually as in slowly give them trust or slowly take it away as needed again this is a good solid question

this is something that people ask on a fairly regular basis and it's a pretty straightforward answer okay you can't obviously just right away just give people full autonomy because you have to build it up somewhat but incrementally give them the opportunity to be on their own now.

And what you're really building, what you're really building with decentralized command is you're building trust. And that's what you're trying to do. And as I've said before, the best way to build trust is to give trust. But before you give trust, you've got to set expectations. You've got to set standards. You've got to set guidelines because this person that you're just,

I mean, this is a new person. They might be a crazy. They might be incompetent. They might have a totally different vision of what's okay than you might. They might be unethical. There's all kinds of things that they might be that you cannot allow for. So what you have to do is set those standards, set those guidelines and put those guardrails in place so that you make sure that this person is ethical. Make sure that they do are professional.

Make sure that they do have the same standards. make sure that they understand the expectations you set for them. And that's when you can start to hand out more slack and more ownership. Because we don't want to micromanage. When I talk about parameters, I'm not talking about telling people exactly how to do it. But let's say you and I started working together and you are my subordinate. If we fast forward two years from now, I'd be like, hey, Echo, this is what we're trying to get done, make it happen. I'll, you know, check back with me when it's done.

Right? That's how much leeway I'm giving you. I don't even care. But when we first start working together, I mean, like, hey, echo, here's what we want to get done. Can you come up with a plan and then let me know, let me take a look at what you're going to do? Boom. Now, I'm still letting you fully own the plan, but I'm going to do a little check. I'm going to make sure that it's the right.

Jim, I'm going to make sure it's a good plan. I'm going to make sure it's a smart plan. I'm going to make sure it handles our resources correctly. So all those things, I'm just going to, and then the more we work together, the more we build the trust, the more you understand the expectations, the less guidance I'm going to give you. the less oversight I'm going to give you. Because I'm built up, because you've built up trust with me and I've built up trust with you.

So that's important. I also want you to be able to make your own decisions because I don't want to be making decisions all time. You know, so even when you, even in the first scenario, when I've been working with you for a long time, you know, I say, hey, I go figure this out. You go, you go handle it.

You get it done. When we first start working together, you might come to me and say, hey, Jocco, I hit this wall. What do you want me to do? What do you think I'm going to say? Figure it out. I'm going to say, figure it out.

I'm going to say, hey, man, I don't know, what's your best guess? Or how would you do it? Or, you know, if we knew each other a little bit better, I'd say, hey, man, don't come asking me those questions. Go figure that out. I don't care how you do it. Just get around that wall. Boom. And we're done.

And now, the other, one other key part of this is oftentimes if you take over a new team, you may want to, you may want to, you may want to start off by setting the example by running the perfect operation by going from end to end with some project that you set the standard on how you want things to be so every looks you and goes okay that's how okay I see how he did that whoa he's he wants that done he oh he holds the line on that so that way everybody knows what the standard is so there's in and I would always you know I mean I would always when I start off when I take over a platoon take over a squat Like okay, we're doing this operation. Cool.

Here's our, I would run it. Very distinctly, very clearly be the guy. And then as time goes on and trust develops, I'm going to become less and less the guy and more and more the decentralized leader that's stepping back and letting the frontline troopers lead. That's what I'm going to try and make happen. As always, when you do start with a new group, it's real easy. Be humble. Listen. Take advice.

ask questions. Ask good questions about things. If there's something you don't understand, ask the question, no big deal. Make the slow incremental changes like Hackworth talks about in Steel My Soldiers. It's going to change two things a day. Not going to change the whole world overnight.

Can't do it. So he's going to change two things a day. That being said, he also did some major. Remember, if you remember this Hackworth, he gets in there and the guys have radios and they got guitars and they got all this stuff. And he goes, yeah, put all that stuff in the middle of the compound. It's out of here tomorrow.

right that was a major change so he went and kind of shook him up a little bit but then he goes okay now I got to go the long war I'm going to change two little things a day and that's what he did so sometimes it's a combination of those two sometimes you gotta send a little shock value like hey new sheriff

in town that's what I used to say in the SEAL team so a new commanding officer would come over if he would do a lot of times they do something to assert their presence like hey I'm here now no more parking in the lot.

You know what I mean? Or, hey, new CEO, I just took over. No more wearing this uniform to this place. Okay. So everyone go, okay, new sheriff in town. Let's let him get this out of his system. So do they typically react in that way where they're like, that's why I see what you're doing there?

Pretty much. It's cool. Pretty much in the SEAL teams, it would be like, oh, okay, yeah, and hey, new sheriff in town. He just came up with a new rule for us to follow so we know he's here. Cool. So it's not like, it's not like some resentment or nothing.

Maybe the guys that are less mature, I use that word, but maybe guys that weren't quite is in the game. Right. Like, man, what's he doing this for? Yeah. Maybe, hey, bro, don't worry about it.

It's a new sheriff of town. He's letting us know where he's here. Yeah. He's got it. Yeah. We got it. So we're all good. Yeah, yeah.

That's cool. But occasionally, you see, occasionally you get somebody that comes in. You notice the things that I just said were fairly. irrelevant like hey don't wear this uniform there or hey don't park in this part whatever those are inconsequential things and those things are okay actually but occasionally you'd see somebody come in

and try and do a you know execute some kind of a fundamental change and that's where you go wait a second man you've been here for a day and a half and you want to execute a fundamental change on what we're doing here there's we have a problem with that we as we as the troops have a problem with that because you don't know how do you know we've been doing this for I was at you're at you're at Team won for eight years. You know, you're going to show up. I've been here for five years. You're going to tell me how it's better to do this.

And that might not be the right attitude for a young guy like myself to have, but that's the attitude that you're going to generate if you come in and try and make fundamental changes without assessing. Yeah. So show some tactical patience when you come in and say, okay, let me check this out. Again, just to refer back to the Hackworth story, Hackworth was going to take over a battalion that was all jacked up. They were called the hopeless, right?

And he wanted to turn him into the hardcore. So his shocking thing that he did was meant to shock. And it was also meant to square them away. It was also the right thing to do. And they also had a bad reputation. If he went in and took over a really good battalion, he wouldn't go in there with the same shock and awe type treatment. Because they don't need it. So you got to think about what you're doing.

But in most cases, unless you're taking over some kind of a problem situation, there you might have to use a little shock and all. If you're taking over a normal situation, all the boss got promoted, you're going to, going to get going to roll hey no problem come in there be humble listen then as you see fit make some small incremental changes yeah like the shock and off thing will probably work against you in a in a normal situation oh yeah it'll definitely work against you it'll definitely work against you now you now because now you're think about it now you're imposing a plan on people yeah people don't like to have plans imposed upon them they don't like it yeah they don't like it even even the big controlled military where everyone's in our

Chain of command. No, no one in the military likes to have big new ideas imposed upon them without fought and without assessment and without explanation and without telling people why. No, you don't do that. Yeah. And that what you want and what you want to do is by doing all those things, by building that trust, by setting the standards, by setting the guidelines, by putting the guardrails in place, by listening, by respecting, by being humble, what you will do. is you will lead people to lead themselves and that's what you want yeah explaining why I feel like that's maybe an underappreciated thing I'll tell you what it's not underappreciated in my book that that's the absolute that is the that's a critical piece yeah even explaining people why they're

doing what you're doing you could go in and I mean really when you think about you could go in and change some fundamental thing if you explain why and everyone's like oh yeah that makes sense But just like how are you saying, if you roll in and you're just, you make a fundamental change, everyone's like, bro, we were doing it that way for a reason. And you just came and changed, but you explain why I understand. It makes more sense. And you get feedback because maybe what you said is the wrong decision. Yeah. You might be saying something that's like, you know what?

You didn't think that through really all that well. Yeah. And you need to discuss this with the troops and figure out what their assessment of your call is. Yeah. Yeah. Again, one of those things where when we talk about it like this, it's like, yeah, yeah. That makes perfect sense, but it's, I don't know. It seems.

You know what's funny is on the podcast? Just as an example, we talked fairly shortly about going to the podcast once every two weeks, right? I didn't really give a good explanation of why. And you know what feedback I got? It was like, hey, you got to be kidding me. Wait, no, this thing comes out on Wednesday, Jocko. I don't know what your problem is. The podcast comes out on Wednesday.

And I got that feedback from numerous people not only on social media, but also in face-to-face. You know, people that texted me and called me and said, bro, you can't go to once a week. There was people that say, hey, first of all, if you're going to do that, you need to set some kind of warning. You need to let people know. We need some time. So it was funny. But the essential thing that I did not do is say, hey, guys, here's what's going on. Here's why I would want to do this in a different way.

way and I didn't really explain that you know we just kind of because it wasn't an actual decision that was getting made it was a consideration the consideration has been revoked by the way we're holding the line we're holding the line and when we do have to do that which may or may not happen but I will explain why in great detail so everyone understands where I'm coming from because I don't want to leave anybody hanging yeah they're going to be like hey jocco I feel like you don't really understand what's going on here you know on the front lines yeah On the front lines, we're waiting for that podcast, song. Awesome.

Next question. Jocko, what are some workouts to progress in becoming more relaxed in the water? I need to lower my heart rate. Okay. Again, this is a good question. It's actually a little bit of a universal question. Again, I like to take questions that apply universally to multiple things. Becoming comfortable in the water is very important.

And water makes you better. Water makes you a better person. And I'll tell you, I've said this before. And the SEAL team is one of the things that makes us good in the SEAL team. We have to deal with water. And water is a pain in the ass. It ruins things. It floods things.

It stops things. It stops guns from working. It stops radios from working. It stops humans from working. You drown in it. Water is very tough to deal with. It's a very harsh environment, especially the ocean water. I used to say that every time you go in the water.

It's a real world bomb because you can get killed. You can get killed in the ocean. You can get killed in the ocean today if you make the wrong moves. So you definitely need to be comfortable in the water. Now, first things, first, water will kill you. Water will kill you. You will die. If you make mistakes in the water, you will die.

So whoever is wrote this question and whoever is going to heed my advice here, note. and be advised that water will kill you. So when you swim, you've got to have a lifeguard. And there's a couple examples of guy in my, that I went through seal training with, who was a stud, a complete stud. He was the honor man of my buds class. And a great guy.

I mean, it's cool to be honor man. It means you're a good athlete. But this guy was also beyond. That was just a great guy, extremely motivated. His name was Keith Camura. And he was practicing breath holds. As he was, this was, you know, after we went through seal training and he had gone to a SEAL team and served and he'd come back to be a SEAL instructor. And he was practicing breath holds during a, during an evolution for the students.

And while all that was going on, you know, they're doing stuff with the students and he's down there practicing breath holds. Like on his own kind? He was in the group, but on his own, if that makes sense. So there's a big evolution going on, and while this big evolution going on, he's kind of doing his own thing. Right, right. And he died. He was doing breath holds. He stayed down there.

He had a shallow water blackout, and he died. And it was awful. I mean, what an incredible, incredible guy. We also had some seals in 2015. that were in Virginia Beach, you know, young studs getting after it, training super hard. And they both died in the pool in Virginia Beach. And again, you know, these are frogmen. These guys are pushing themselves and, you know, trying to make themselves better.

And they pushed that envelope and that's what seals do. And they pushed it. And they went over the line. And unfortunately, they were training together at the same time. So you got to be safe. You got don't train alone and don't train with someone that's doing the same thing as you at the same. You can't endure the same thing together. You know, it's a real, it's a real simple rule.

It's a one up, one down. So if it's your turn to train, I stay out. And then you do your evolutions. And then when you're done, okay, now it's my turn to train. You stay out and you watch me. It's one up, one down. That has to be the standard. Again, people don't

Don't play around with the water You know, I've had shallow water blackouts And they just come And that's it, you're unconscious And if you, if someone's not there to drag you out You're going to drown, you're going to die, that's it Yeah And again, it's sort of

You can tell that they're coming a little bit And you get used to them But it's sort of like getting choked out in Jiu-Jitsu Yeah, you know, you've been choked out before, right? Yeah, many times Yeah, so you think you're going to make it Yeah, and And then you don't.

And you can push it too. That's the thing. Especially when you're training, like when I'm trying to get stronger at like chokes and you want to be, if you have some fight in you, you know, you want to be able to fight, you know, so you push it a lot of times. Especially when you have experience. You push it a little bit. And then sometimes because you just got to go, you can feel the blackout coming. But once you go right past that point, you're, you can't tap anymore. You go out.

You know, it's a safe because usually the guy can feel you go out and he let you go. But, bro, in the water. It's like, you know what the event horizon? Isn't it is in a black hole? Yeah. There's a line. If you go over that line, you're done. And that's exactly what happens with your consciousness.

You can see that line. You're watching. You're like, oh, I'm going to be okay. I'm going to make it. And then all of a sudden it's gone. And you're over the line. You're in the black hole. And that's it.

So be very, very careful when you're doing this. Always have a swim buddy, swim of the lifeguard, all that stuff. Now, the question, back to the question, beyond the safety portion is how do you get more comfortable in the water? You spend time in the water. Swim. Surf spear fishing snorkeling scuba diving survival floating breath holds treading water Just that's how you get comfortable in the waters by being in the water give yourself little challenges swim with swim with t-shirts in your hands swim with your clothes on swim Dejoc while you know just all those things to get to be in the water and do things and swim and that's how you get more comfortable in the water and you'll

rapidly increase your ability to be in the water and handle yourself in the water and you'll be much more calm in the water and the reason I said this is a universal question is because it's the same thing with just about everything else that you're going to do it's the same thing with swimming it's the same thing with doing pull you want to get good at pull-ups do more pull-ups you want to get better at public speaking get up and start doing public speaking same thing with shooting like when people first start shooting and they're all intimidated by firearms it's because they're not used to them so spend time shooting spend time around guns you'll get used to the muzzle flash you get used to the concussion of the noise and you will be more comfortable about it so that's that's the

That's what you need to do in the water. You spend more time in the water and you'll get better at it. You'll get more comfortable. Again, be careful when you're doing it. The water will kill you. Hey, what does de jocque mean? Oh, it's a term that as far as I know comes from buds from seal training where when you put your scuba gear on, they call it jocking up. So jock up in your gear.

And then in the seal teams, it becomes, it's a, it's a. term that means any type of getting your clothes on. You're getting your gear on, getting your clothes on, getting dressed. Put your jock strap on. I don't know if that's what it is. I don't know if that's where it comes from. I think it is.

You can, but they used to play, you know, you remember that little kids game, hang man? Yeah. Where you fill in the letters? Well, whenever the class would make a mistake, they would put, they'd have jock up written on the board and they'd put one letter in, and they'd

when you spelled out all of jock up, then they would make you do jock up drills, which are not fun. But it's just putting on stuff. Your gear stuff. Yes, but the jock up drills involve ridiculously stupid and hard calisthenic workouts with your entire gear load out on it.

Yeah, yeah. You know what bear crawling is? Yeah. So you had to bear crawl with twin 72 tanks on. You know, we bear, crawl to the chow hall i mean it's a mile it is i think i think our instructors got in trouble for making us bear crawl with um you can't do that it's inhumane yeah they were like the geneva convention called and said bro yeah no yeah yeah we had to bear call in football we had to there was an incident

in camp in football at uh h one time and um where we're supposed to be you know sleeping you know you know lights out whatever yeah and the a guy who will remain no his name is tupa alu alu this is like when I was young I was like a freshman two ballo ala someone guy and he um I can say his name now because he admitted it afterwards but before they were like we would have to keep his confidence yeah yeah totally classified tupa getting after what do what do you do okay so people were messing about we're supposed be in bed so security comes or whatever and like we all everyone hides something say we it wasn't me i wasn't doing it and someone threw a sandwich at the security guard hit him and it was this big incident

the sand you know in and of itself throwing sandwich a security guard that's more funny than anything but we're supposed to be in bed you know we're a football team you can't do that you know so it was like hey who who was this if no one admits it everyone's going to get punished so of course everyone gets punished we're doing barricles across across the field nonstop So he was like, I can relate to the bear crawl to the chahaw. It wasn't like, okay, bear crawl to here and then bear, it was like, you're going all away. I don't even know how many times we did it.

One guy was like crying, was crying, say, fess up, whoever did it, fess up, crying. Grown men, crying. I don't like that guy. Nonetheless, so yeah, bear crawl, that's rough. Bear crawl's no joke. But I think jocying up is because you wear your jockstrap when you get in the game. Like a jockstrap, jock, you know. Maybe one of the old UDT guys that listens to the podcast will contact me and let me know where Jockup came from.

Yeah, that's my money is on that. I don't think it's because of Jock straps. It's gearing up. Gearing up. Jock strap is like the manly, you know, I'm telling you. I'm not going down this road. Well, I'm not, it's not that, I'm already down the road. I can't help that. You drag me along, but I'm not going to agree with you.

I think you're wrong. All right. There you go. You have that right. Yeah. There you go. Next question. Yeah, let's go to the next question.

I don't want to talk about that one anymore. You're losing me on it. What's the dichotomy in having an ego? When is it good? And when does it get to a point where you have to check your ego? Okay, so the dichotomy is pretty clear. Ego drives you. Absolutely.

It makes you want to win. It makes you want to perform well. It makes you proud of your achievement. Makes you want to be number one and those are all good things and I fully Fully have those myself I mean my ego will keep me up at night trying to win at some ridiculously meaningless thing in the world especially when I was younger it was kind of stupid But the ego can also get you in trouble get you in trouble really really quickly for instance I mean you can your ego can make you sabotage your co-worker that's on the same

team as you so that you can outshine them right that's ego you can vote down a plan a better plan because that plan isn't yours that's your ego you can chase some material items Something that you don't really need. Maybe in some case it might even be something that you don't actually even want. And it's just fueling your ego, which is a really bizarre thing to see. It can make you step on your subordinates, right? It can make you undercut your peers because that ego flares up. It can make you, your ego can make you dig in, dig in on some stupid ideas.

that you've had, those are the kind of things that ego do, and all those things are negative. So that's pretty clear to me where ego starts going sideways. And I would say even though like my ego always fueled me to want to win, but I never was that out of control where I was like screwing people over because I wanted to win. No, I wouldn't do that. That wasn't part of my personality. I'm not that. Plus I was never really naturally good at much.

So it wasn't like I was going to win. The only way I could beat people and things was better outworking them. Yeah. Other than that, it would be hard for me. Yeah, usually that kind of person who, like you, well, the two kinds of people, one, who is down to, like, screw someone over or basically cheat. You're cheating is what you're doing. It's like, I want to be here.

They don't necessarily want to, quote, unquote, win. Because if you cheat, it's not really winning. You know, the whole benefit of winning is, like, overcoming certain things, you know? But when you cheat, it's like, you're not going any. you cheated you know whatever so it's less about it's more about you understanding really what winning is and that's what you like the winning you know yes yes that's why so like people undermine you know cheat and do this stuff it's like they don't want to win it's like a good case and point when i remember when when i was going to seal training there was people there was

guys that would like brag about it they were going through the same seal training class of me same buds Classes me but they would like brag about it and like you could hear him talking to let's say some random person Yeah, we're on the seal training I wasn't bragging about that I was like hey man I'm a lucky I'm here And I realized that a lot of those people quit because they were comfortable They just being able to say like seal training they were already good with it they were like oh yeah I did what I'm supposed to do Yeah so me I don't want to do that I didn't want to say anything until I made it through yeah And so, yeah, so what I'm saying is, similar to what you're saying, they were satisfied just by being able to throw that out there. Right.

That was enough for them. So for someone that's willing to cheat and win or they're willing to step on someone, man, that doesn't feel good to me. That's never felt good to me. Like if I got a step on someone, I don't even want it. I don't want that victory. Don't want it. So it's like they want to, some people want to look like they won and other people want to really win. Yeah, of course.

That's really the difference. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So back to the ego point, when you start feeling like you're doing some of those negative things, that's when you've got to put your ego in check. That's what you've got to support your coworker instead of sabotaging. That's when you've got to pick the best plan out there instead of picking your own. That's when you say, do you know what?

I'm happy with what I have instead of chasing things that I. I don't even need. You know what I'm talking about when people like if you were there's been something that you wanted even though you actually didn't even really want it but you just want it just because you because it's pure ego. Pure ego. Yeah. Like when you're in the weight well in growing up like lifting weights some guys would do this

where they'd be lifting weights and you can see a lot of times in these like like a 24 our fitness situation where you be lived guys will be lifting weights and then one guy was he's like dang he's lifting kind of a lot. You'll see someone all of a sudden be doing that same exercise like trying to lift more than that. He doesn't know him. He's not lifting with him. He wasn't even doing that exercise. It wasn't even his workout.

But he'll like try to do it, you know? Yeah. You weren't even doing that exercise. You weren't doing bench today. Yeah. And now you're doing bench. Yeah. Chasing something you don't even want.

Don't even want it that day. Don't need it that day. That's another big one is like when I talk about subordinates, instead of cutting down your subordinates, you start lifting them up. You start making them shine. You start giving them the credit. Making them shine even brighter than yourself. That's the beautiful thing when you can put your ego in check and you can make that happen.

Making your own boss look good. Having an open mind to new ideas. Those are the things. That's how you put your ego in check. Those are the things that those are the hallmarks of having your ego in check. Now, sometimes people don't know when they need to put their ego in check. And I think there's one really easy indicator to know when you need to just at least like do an assessment of your ego. And that is when you come into conflict with another person.

Because a huge percentage of conflicts that you have with other people are ego. Are their ego? And so when you feel that conflict, whether it's about positioning, whether it's about an idea, whether it's about a plan, whether it's about, no matter what's about but if I'm in conflict with you on something immediately I'm gonna say okay wait a second is this your ego talking or are you is this business or is this ego yeah and if you do that you will find yourself you know any form of frustration or anger that you have just check your ego and there's a good chance that you're going to be able to take that thing get a hold of it and aggressively put it in check it's hard your ego

is a tough bastard. Your ego, man, that thing wants the spotlight. It wants to shine. It wants the glory. And it's driven. You know, that's a lot of you

high achievers out there. That's what's driving you. And that's not a bad thing. So when it comes time to harness that bad boy, it can be a challenge. But it's very rewarding when you make it happen.

It's rewarding in a long-term gratification. It's not immediate gratification. Generally, You know, you're giving, you're giving your support and it's all the credit for some, for some project that they did. And you know that. You could actually know that you did the bulk of the work, but you give it away. That's not gratifying immediately.

Immediately is like, yeah, that's right. Put the accolades on my head, boss. That's immediate gratification that you're looking for. No, you say, hey boss, you know what? Don't put the accolades on my head. Look at my team. Let's crown them because they really did a great job. And I'm just here to help them.

there's no gratification in that but when you get feedback a week later a month later six months later people want to come and work for your team now your team gets picked for another project that's the long term gratification that you get when you keep your ego in check

yeah go and check people this year I took extreme ownership over every detail and mistake of the roofing company I was starting but instead of inspiring my employees they just got entitled because of the because of this the business almost ran into the ground in addition I got

so worn down that my resolve almost collapsed in your estimation what did I do wrong so this is an example I don't see this all the time but I do see it sometimes and what we have here is you know clearly guy steps up and says you know what I'm gonna take ownership I'm to take extreme ownership which is what I'm always encouraging people to do like and I wrote the book, we called the book Extreme Ownership because that is the fundamental principle that we see as the common trait that makes people successful when they're taking ownership instead of blaming other people. So that's what this guy did with the roofing company. Hey, I'm going to take ownership of all the mistakes. Now, the problem there is with the concept of extreme ownership, it means taking ownership of the mistakes, taking ownership of the problems.

But it doesn't stop there. That is simply where you start because the real true ownership that you need to take is you need to take extreme ownership of the solutions of implementing the solutions of creating and implementing the solutions. That's what you need to take ownership of. So in a situation like this, like for instance, oh, I took ownership of everything so my team became entitled. Now, first of all, in that statement in its own, right, if I say, hey, we failed because my team became entitled, what did I just do?

Blame them. I blame them for becoming entitled. Why did they become entitled? I allowed them to. What am I going to do to solve that? I either have to change the way I'm treating them. Maybe there's a couple cancers in there that have that attitude. And I need to fire those people or replace them or get them retrained or put some

ownership on them so that they realize, oh, okay. Oh, I'm going to get I'm going to lose my job if we're going to fail this mission or the companies go out of business if I don't do this right. So you got to that's the mistake there. What do I? So you've identified the problem. You've taken ownership of it. Hey, we, we got to make sure we get our jobs done on time. Okay, boss.

Well, you didn't order the gear in time and you didn't do this and now we're behind. So it's not our fault. And by the way, pay me. If that's the attitude your employees have, you got a problem as a leader. So what is the problem? How do you fix that problem? the the thing is about ownership is taking ownership of the problem doesn't fix the problem right it doesn't fix the problem you still have to come up with the solution so that's what it is when we talk about extreme ownership

we're definitely not just talking about owning the problems but like i said owning the solutions and owning the implementation and actually carried to its to its furthest stretch, to its furthest outcome. That's where you have to take extreme ownership of, and this is the most important part. And obviously I need to make this clear enough because this should be something

that everyone fundamentally understands when they talk about extreme ownership. The most important part for you to own as a leader is the outcome, is the end state. If you are not meeting your end state, that's what you have to take ownership of. That's what you have to make happen. So that's it.

You know, when your company's not doing the right thing, yeah, you got to take ownership of the mistakes that happen. You got employees that are acting wrong. Yeah, hey, it's my fault that they're acting wrong. You got deadlines that you're missing. Yes, it's my fault that we missed the deadlines. Now you've got to go back and ask yourself the question. How do I make the deadlines? How do I fix those employees?

You've got to solve those problems that are out there. Otherwise, extreme ownership doesn't do anything for you. And we've talked about this before as well. And that is that taking ownership of things is not a, it's not a shelter. It's not, it doesn't provide shelter. Yeah. It doesn't. It's, and some people think it does.

They go, hey, you know what? Hey, we missed, we failed on our mission. It's my fault. Okay. So, you know, let's move on. No, no, no. Actually, no, we don't move on. You failed in your mission.

How are you going to fix it? Extreme ownership does not, does not give you any mercy whatsoever. That's what's hard about it and by the way the thing that the thing that extreme ownership that makes it hard is because the The previous question it attacks your ego Because when you say hey guys this is my fault you're not just saying Hey guys this is my fault. Let's move on You're saying this is truly my fault We failed because of me and these are the things we're gonna do fix it and I'm gonna own it until we get it done

Yeah thing. Yeah that it kind of makes sense like It is one of those all or nothing things, you know, where extreme, it's just funny how you put it, you know, where you're like, I did my extreme ownership. The rest is up to you guys kind of thing. You can't really do that. And this question is a really good question. And I appreciate it because you can see the guy that asked it. He clearly is motivated, wants to do well. But he, again, my fault for not explaining this well enough, he thought that just taking ownership would solve the problem.

No, you have to take ownership and solve the problem. Matter of fact, the taking ownership part is the initial part that lets the rest of it happen. And that's why we emphasize it so much, because most people, they just don't take owner. They're not even close. Yeah. This guy, he's close. He's taking ownership. Now he's got to realize, okay, I took ownership.

I realize that it's my fault. And again, it's not just him saying, well, it's my company, so it's my fault. And so I hope this works out. I don't hope anything. You fix it. You make it happen. And again, I appreciate this question because I could see in his earnest asking of the question. Like he's like, man, what did I do wrong?

What did I do wrong? Here's what you did wrong. You made the first step, which is the hardest step. That's the positive here. One of the most positive things about this guy is he's made the hardest step, which is, okay, this is my fault. The follow on is what he missed. Now, how do I fix it? What do I do to implement it?

You got laxadaisical entitled employees. That is your fault. So how do you fix them? Because if you're laxadaisical and entitled around me, that means I'm doing something wrong. That means you don't understand the mission. You don't understand why we're doing what we're doing. You don't understand why it's important to meet the deadline on this roof

so we can move on to another one so that we can collect money to pay for our next one. There's all kinds of reasons that you can tell people why these things are important. And if you have people that they know exactly why they're doing what they're doing and they still aren't getting in the game, you need to find some more people to come and work for you. some different people, some people with better attitudes and bring them on board with the right attitude. Yeah, this, even to add to why this is such a good question, is this is exactly what people are scared of with the extreme ownership. It's like, dang, if I take extreme ownership over everything, they're going to take advantage or they're going to, you know, be entitled or whatever. I think, I mean, even thinking about it, that's what I'd be afraid of.

That's what I am afraid of, you know. And I will tell you, having done this my whole career, when you take ownership of things, people don't, there's a small chance. There's a couple knuckleheads like these, the idiots that this guy has working for him that are entitled. Now I shouldn't say that because he may have provided the environment to become, like he might have been the easy button. And every time they say, hey boss, I can't finish. A boss, I can't come in late today. Can you finish up that roof by yourself? And he's like, hey, you know what, I'm going to take ownership of this, right?

He goes, okay, I'm going to take ownership. Don't worry about it. I got it. Now he does that four days in a row. He's worked 16-hour days. He's starting to get broken mentally and physically. You ever done roofing before? Have you ever done any roofing?

Yeah. That's hard work, especially in the summertime when the blaze and sun, 14, 16-hour day. I had to do, I pulled a chimney off my little chimney off my roof one time. I thought I was going to just patch the roof. No, I had to strip like a third of my roof on my house. And then I'm up there. We got rainstorms coming. I'm up there.

Okay, I got to roof this whole thing. And the next, what is it, 18 hours? Get some. Yeah. So roofing is hard work. Yes,

and if you don't take the, if you don't get these employees in the right mindset, if they're not part of the team, if they're not on board, how are you going to fix that? And what I was going to say is if you become the easy button all the time,

then that allows them. It fosters the attitude of, Hey, you know what? This is on Jocko. He's the one that he's still got to pay me. Like, no, actually, let me tell you how it really works. You know how I pay you regardless of what you do? Well, eventually, I don't pay you anything because you don't work here and I don't have a business anymore.

So if that's where you're at, I don't want you here. And I will do this myself and I'll schedule my jobs appropriately so I can do it all myself. If you want to get in the game and be part of this team, which you should, then this is what I need from you. Here's the expectations. This is why Because next year This year we did 14 roofs Next year I want to do double that

And that means I'm going to get you a crew That's going to work for you And you're going to bump your pay up a little bit I'm going to get you moving along And get you promoted Maybe sometime you'll have two or three teams working for you Do you want to do that or do you want to continue being The guy that's hauling shingles all day

Are you in the game with me or not? Are you part of this gig? See so you got to get in their heads You got to get them out of that mindset and into the right mindset so that you can dominate. Yeah, I feel like that extreme ownership kind of provides that too, you know, where if, like how you've always said, if you're like blaming them, overtly blaming them, they're like, oh, this is going on on my team.

They have that feeling. But if they're like, if he's taking the responsibility, it's like, oh, dang, this guy's kind on my team. Yeah, I do want to do all that for you. Classic, classic, you're right. Classic example. If I approach you and I'm like, echo, dude, you're just entitled. you're entitled you don't have a good attitude what attitude do you have now yeah what

attitude do you have now now you're like oh what are you talking about i'm entitled we i'm entitled yeah you're damn right i'm entitled because look at what i've been doing i've been no whereas if i if i take a different approach with you and say man look i think you've got a lot of potential you know i think you got a lot of things going on at home and i know you got that girlfriend and i know you're doing this and that but you know what i think you got some potential here let me show you what it's going to lead. You know, I know you don't want to be carrying shingles for the rest of your life and on your knees smack and nails, right?

But maybe you could be running a crew and this is how I want to grow. Do you kind of want to get in the game with me? Because I think you might, you see what I'm saying? That's all it takes. You understand me. Yes. Good question. Thanks and good luck with that company.

Small business owners getting after. It's hard running a small business. It's hard work. You are the buck stops of you whether you like it or not. Because even if you, hey, you know what? even if you don't want to take extreme ownership, if you're a small business owner, eventually you're going to get put on you.

It's on you. It is on you. So it's great. I love the small business owners getting after it out there. Next question. Thoughts on how to deal with toxic slash negative people. Oh, those people. Yeah.

So first of all, it's important to recognize that those people exist. Everywhere and everybody's got to deal with me if you run into one of these people Don't get all surprised as if they're a lone ranger out there being negative no there's negative rangers all over the place So we got to do you got to know how to deal with them and it's So so when you're dealing with someone like that first of all Confronting them Of course as you can probably predict is not usually the best option because all you're doing

as you're attacking their heavily defended position, which is not good. So one of the techniques that I use when dealing with these kind of people is I absorb. I absorb their critiques. I absorb their toxicity. I absorb their negativity. Now, obviously, this takes a little bit of strength, right? You can't be taking stuff personally. You have to, in order to learn how to absorb things, you're going to say, okay, I'm just going

doing this for the team, right? but it looks like for instance when they say oh this is horrible I don't say no it's not horrible I don't just go right back at them I say yeah you know what we definitely got some room for improvement right so I kind of just deflected it

and I kind of just absorb it right absorb it a little bit because what they want to do is they're lashing out right they're throwing the negativity they like those explosions they like to see it hit something and blow up that's what they're doing that's how they roll so you're going to absorb it We're going to catch it and pull it in, right?

So when they're like, we can never do this, I don't say, we can absolutely do this. No, because you didn't, you're just going to create the explosion that they're looking for. Instead, I'm saying, you know what? We might not be able to do it, but I'm going to give it a good solid try. I'm going to try and make it happen. Right? So we're just deflected it a little bit and they're going to throw you some other negative thing. And, you know, if they say, oh, this is stupid.

I don't say, no, this is the most. thing I've ever seen. I don't do that. Don't go head to head. I'm going to say, you know what? There's definitely some room for improvement the next time around. You're right.

100%. Ooh. Yeah, you just got deflected. And those reactions, they disarm these ultra-negative people. And it kind of takes their fight from the minute. It also makes them look like emotional. So with the group, right?

When somebody calls that out in the group, and they're coming across all extreme and you just absorb it and negate it a little bit, it negates their view, or it, I shouldn't say negate because negate means like totally last, it's cross out. When you just absorb it and deflect it a little bit, the rest of the team goes, oh, you know, Oh, Echo, he's just super emotional.

He's a negative. They see him for what he is, which is helpful for you, right? And then once I'm done absorbing their attacks, and taking some of those shots, no big deal, that I'm gonna start to override them somewhat with some positivity, which is gonna be directed at them. Right, so they were all negative,

but I'm gonna say, hey, what you did there really work well. Or, you know, hey, good job on that. I don't know, I never could have figured that out like you did, right? So I'm gonna start getting in their head a little bit and start filling their head with some positive stuff. That's right. That's what I'm gonna do. bad you figured that out better than anybody nicely done and I'm bringing them from the dark

side over to the light that's what I'm doing I'm bringing them over and actually I used to have the funniest one of my favorite guys in the SEAL teams he was my he was my first deployment to Iraq he was the senior enlisted guy in our task units and actually we're just bros But when one of us would start getting a little off the reservation on something like getting all addicted to some idea or something The other one we would be looking like I'd be telling him like we need to do this and this is bullshit we need to do And he'd look at me like he'd be like come back Come back to the light We're over here. It's okay

We're all gonna be okay So when I would start getting negative he would start pulling me back to the light, right? And same thing with me with him. He would get all You know get all matter of fact he's the guy remember when we talked about simplify repeat

yeah no simplify amplify and repeat that's him yeah yeah yeah that's him he would also have to bring me back from the dark side

and I have to do it to him too if he started getting a little too negative um good times but the last thing I want to do with someone that's being super negative is I am actually

I want to give them some ownership I want to give them some ownership I want to give them some ownership, some ability to make changes, some ability to have some kind of a positive impact on the mission. So I'm going to pick something that I think they can step up and handle, right? Something that is within their grasp and realm and ability, and I'm going to give it to them. And then I'm going to give them, I'm going to kind of overload them with help and with

assistance and with guidance to make sure that they win. and that's going to start spinning them in a more positive direction. So that's my way to deal with the big negative people out there. Just absorb and slowly counter. I like that how you're like how you figured that out. And I said this before, but a good one is to be like to say, hey, that's what I like about you. You're real, whatever, X, Y, Z, you know?

Isn't that feeling like, because people said that to me. That's what I like about you. You're real whatever, you know? And it makes you want to like continue to be that, you know? And you're like, hey, he thinks I'm, you know, a problem solver. I'm going to be aware and just to continue to solve problems, you know? You put the self-fulfilling prophecy in their own head. Yeah.

Positive things that you want them to do. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's good. Jocko. Next question? Next question. Let's do it. I'm an I-N-T-J personality.

My drive slash ideas often cause friction with superiors. How can I use my strengths without creating division? Okay. So for this one, I kind of had to look up this stuff to remember exactly what it was. And the, like, the I NJT or INTJ stuff is in introverted, intuitive thinking, judging. This is part of this Myers-Briggs type indicator. That refers to one of 16 psychological types, right? So it's sort of a graph that you can figure out these, what type of 16 different psychological types that there are.

And so for this one in particular, this I NJT, which like I said is introverted, intuitive, thinking, and judging. And I went to the interwebs for this. Sure. And it said that as an I-N-T-J, your primary mode of living is focused internally, where you take things in primarily via your intuition. Your secondary mode is external, where you deal with things rationally and logically. So speaking of self-fulfilling prophecies, this is kind of one of them. And, you know, as far as I'm concerned, your personality and anyone's personality is not set in stone by any stretch. And of course, can you have some natural tendencies as a person?

Of course, you do have some natural tendencies. And if your brain was on autopilot, you would steer towards those personality traits even more. But luckily, our brain is not on autopilot. and you have your hands on the wheel and you can control your mind and you can, in this case, you know, step back and get a grip on things that, you know, according to the question, that cause friction, right? If as an I-N-G-A-T you are supposedly too demanding, and these are little quotes that they had, If you're too demanding or not open to other people or not open to other ideas, here's what you do.

Real simple. Get less demanding. Right? If you have a hard time listening to other people, listen to other people. If you, and this was another quote I got from the I NJT personality matrix, if you are supposed to have a low tolerance of emotion in others, then get more tolerance for emotions in others. This isn't hard. You identified what the issues are.

You've heard me say this all the time. Listen to other people, treat them with respect. These things are not doing that. So do them. That's really simple. There's no reason for you to fulfill this prophecy of being a person that's not open others' ideas, a person that has low tolerance for other people. There's no reason for you to be.

Overly demanding you don't have to be this way just because that's your personality type allegedly That doesn't mean you have to be that way here. This is kind of like um You know the the the horoscope signs Right sure and I don't do people even talk about those anymore? I don't know my debt well What is it horoscope or astrology? Astrology right? Is that the same thing? Yeah, it's different yeah well you read your horoscope, but the The the the based on the the magic of astrology. Yeah, uh, you know uh, you're the same thing. Yeah, uh, you read your horoscope. It's the the the magic of astrology. Yeah, uh, uh, you Yeah, people still do that. So when I, when I, it doesn't happen to me in a while, but when I was younger,

people would say, you know, like, oh, what sign are you? And I'd say, I'm, you know, I'm a Scorpio. And they say, oh, I could tell you were a Scorpio. Yeah, I totally pegged you as a Scorpio. I saw that. I go, actually, I'm not a Scorpio. And I'd say, you know, actually, I'm a Libra. And they'd go, oh.

Oh, no, no, no, I have, yeah, for sure. You're a Libra all the way, definitely, because you have this and you're that. And I go, actually, I'm going, I'm actually Virgo. And then they wouldn't trust me anymore and think I was a bastard and whatever. But my point is, according to some random zodiac calendar, it's, you can place those, like, overlays on anybody and you can kind of make them fit. And that's what I'm saying is like, I'm not saying that the, that the, that the. E NTP or ESJ or L MNOP or whatever. I'm not saying that the Myers-Briggs thing is just wrong.

I think it's good to have a framework. I think it's fine to have a framework and say, oh yeah, I recognize this trait in myself or yeah, I recognize that trait of myself or I recognize that trait in someone else. And then you can deal with it. I think that's good. But what I don't, what I don't accept is saying,

this is what I am and therefore I'm not going to change. No, wrong answer. If we all just accepted who we are, you know, you're not going to make any progress, you know? So you find some weaknesses in your personality and you fix them. That's what I'm saying. Adapt yourself, evolve, get better. Stop creating fiction, friction. Stop creating division.

Be humble, listen, take input. All those things. And I'll tell you one last thing is if you really are the, the, the, I. I and T.J. Then that means that you're smart. It means you're thinking. It means you're pragmatic. It means you're an analytical person.

You're supposed to be all those things. So if you are, then realize that in order to be a successful member of the team, you need to put all those little characteristics into check, pragmatically and make it happen. It's funny. I was reading about that very recently. About I NJT. and all that. The briggs.

Introvert. The whole thing. Introvert extrovert. And yeah. So there's that framework. But as it turns out, it's like a bell curve. Where most people are somewhere in the middle and you kind of bounce in the middle there. So there's extreme introverts for sure, extreme extroverts.

But usually it's you're in the middle. You know, cool. There's a framework. Cool. Another thing with that is just like I said, the self. fulfilling thing. So I was like, and I always like say this just to my friends, whatever. There's a different, like feeling a certain way, I don't think you should have too much

guilt in feeling a certain way. Like, you know, sometimes they'll be like, dang, I felt like, I don't know, I felt prejudice or something like that. And it's because those feelings come from a bunch of things that a lot of times you can't control. But behavior is different. So you can feel one thing and behave. If your behavior is just based straight up on your feelings, then that's like,

that's kind of whack. You know, you got to be smarter where, okay, you have these natural feelings, cool. So you're an intro, I, whatever. And so, yeah, you might tend to have certain types of feelings or lack of tolerant for this or you're not tolerant for, you know, this or that. So when you're like, hey, I'm this,

therefore it gives me a pass to behave this way. It's like, dang, bro, you can't do that, man. And if you're intuitive, but shouldn't you kind of know that? I guess. I would think, I would hope so. But yeah, so again, there's a difference between like feelings and behavior. And usually I would be, you know how you say like, yeah, if you want to tough, if you want to be tougher, be tougher.

A lot of times I'd be like, well, there's more to it than that. And there is really. But in this case, in a way, bro, you can really look at it literally like that. If you have a lack of tolerance for emotional, bro, just tolerate it. Bro, you self, I think people do self-diagnose and give themselves a pass. And I know we do kind of have I think we do it naturally too because I know this I'm put it real ambiguously because I don't call anyone out. But the I know this family where the little girls growing up,

they're like, they kept telling her, hey, you're acting this way because you have a, I don't know, I forget what I think, Asperger's something. Something, yeah. He goes, oh, that's just your thing. And they didn't like cultivate anything. They were just like real dismissive about it. That's it. And then now every time she acted up, she wouldn't like,

try to curb her behavior. She'll act up and be like, that's just my whatever, my Asperger's or whatever. She, like, embraced it, still behaved, you know, in whatever way she felt like behaving and then just kind of put it on the Asperger's. Yeah, it's mind control. Yeah, man. It's mind control. You've got, I mean, obviously you get some people that have some significant, you know,

mental problem. Okay, I understand. But, like, this person that's writing a logical question. They got mind control. They just need to say, you know what? I'm going to be more open to other people's emotions. I'm going to listen to other people's ideas. Ready, go.

Do it now. Yeah. Oh, I'm rejecting Echo's idea at point blank range. Okay, that's a signal. I need to not do that. Echo, I am open to your idea. Let me hear it. It's that easy.

That's just my I and TJ acting up. I got to, you know, I got to check that. Got to check that. Yeah, the feelings versus behavior thing, I think is. Well, it's one of those things where when you know the problem, that's like because this person's obviously ahead of the game because they know you know they know this is what's causing okay i can you know i can identify when i feel that stuff coming on very important like it's an ailment you know it's not an ailment it's good it's dope all right next question

next question is this the last one going up yeah i think maybe make this the last one huh okay jaco we all know bad things happen to good people sometimes how do you deal, how do you deal when those things happen to people around you? Very true. That sometimes bad things, horrible things happen to, and I don't, I don't know why. Life isn't fair. That's the reality. And disease, cancer, and MS and horrible diseases and diseases and horrible diseases and accidents

and these things a good person in the wrong place in the wrong time can end up just a victim of of of fate and and of reality and it can be in heart-wrenching but when those things happen What are you going to do? How are you going to lead? Are you going to get angry? Are you going to get frustrated? Are you going to lash out at people? Who are you going to lash out at anyways?

Are you going to start going down the spiral of negativity? Are you going to let this horrible situation dictate the way you feel and the way you handle it. Are you going to fall over and fall down and fall apart? Or are you going to lead? Are you going to face this issue with courage and with resolution? I say lead. Step up to the challenge. Be the one that other people look to. Absorb. that impact, absorb that negativity. Draw fire. Draw fire.

That's when a member of a platoon, for tactical reasons, steps into the open to draw enemy fire, maybe to give another part of his team the chance to move or distract the enemy. But that's what I say. Draw fire. Bring that pain to me.

I can handle it when maybe others cannot. And when when bad things are happening, I am going to try and be the one good thing The thing standing tall that can be relied upon Because I know that that attitude will spread It will bolster those around me and And and we will fight and in fighting, we will win. And if not the battle, and if not the war, we will win because our spirit.

It will never surrender. And that is the ultimate victory to hold your head high. And even even in the face of inescapable defeat, stand. And to fight. And to fight. that is to win. I think that's all I've got for tonight. Echo. Yes. Let's close this thing out a little bit. Before we do that, though,

let's talk about how the people that are listening to this, if you want to listen to more of it, what's the best way to support the podcast? What's the best way to get in the game here with the boys? Help us keep rolling this thing out. What's the best way to go? I do want to clarify, get in the game means a lot.

Yeah. Because you're getting in the game and flourishing in the game, really. To do that, you may or may not need supplementation if you do. You like that? Like a little...

Like where you went there. What do you call it like a transition? Anyway, so supplementation, right? I need more creole oil, by the way. You should have told me that before we meant today. as opposed to right now.

Nonetheless, On It. On it has best supplements. Everyone knows that, I think. I think everyone knows that by now. But if you want 10% off and you're new to On It, or even if you have On It stuff and you'll just, when you're getting more,

you want 10% off. Go onit.com slash jaco 10% off. If you really want to step up your supplementation game, I think I mentioned this like once before, but nonetheless, it's called Stay On It. So you know how I don't have creole oil right now? I didn't stay on it.

So stay on it is boom. It's like the monthly one. Recurring. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And in this case, it's like, it's good because it is one of those things that you need to come back every month. You need, you need proloil every month. Every month, yeah. And like warrior bars, you need varying levels of warrior bars per month.

Sometimes more, sometimes less. Sometimes less. It's true. Ony.com slash jaco. 10% all. Boom. Check out all this stuff. Very good.

Also, Amazon. Trooper tool does not work anymore. The trooper tool has been destroyed by the empire. Yeah. Which, you know, it had a good run and, you know, cool. But nonetheless, we are still doing the Amazon thing and people do support through Amazon, which is good. Very good. That's awesome.

Yeah. So what does it cost them to support the podcast through Amazon? It costs three seconds of their time. That's appreciated. And that's just a one-time investment, potentially. If you, you know, you save it to the, you click on, okay, you go to the website, joccopodcast.com or jocco store. Click on the Amazon link before you do your shopping. It'll take you, you know, to Amazon.

Save that. Save the resulting links in like a bookmark. Is a favorite bookmark? Favorite. Yeah, yeah, man. So you can support every time you shop. It doesn't cost you nothing. That initial three seconds that you're like, you know, a lot of people have been doing that and that's, that's, that's,

solid right there thank you um but yeah do it that way you can support and also subscribe on itunes if you haven't already and subscribe on youtube i know i've been saying this for you're you're actually um trust level i know man you're you're starting to cost yourself there i know right i think it's my fault actually no man you've been you've been giving me trust and bro i haven't been throwing it back at what me i don't know nonetheless i know I've been saying it. Where you're getting as you're going to make more videos. Is that what you're going to say?

Now, yeah, I'm going to tell you, just trust me on this. Everybody that listen to this podcast wants you to make more videos. Don't feel any pressure about that. Maybe that's just not you, maybe you just don't, you know, you don't want to make it happen. That's okay. I want you to know that we all, all of us, we all want you to make more videos. That's the vote from us troopers over here. You got your thing.

You know, hopefully you can find some time And make some badass videos. All I'll try. Thanks for calling them badass. Well, they are. That's motivating. Thanks, real. Well, hopefully it can motivate you enough

that you find some discipline to make some more videos for us. Okay. I'll do it. But yes, YouTube subscription. And subscribe to the podcast. Right? You got to subscribe to the podcast.

That's the most basic, right? On iTunes, yeah. Yeah, that's the most basic level of joining the movement. Is that Tuesday night, maybe around 11 o'clock, depending on where you are. Depending on where you are. Maybe it's 2 o'clock in the morning. Wednesday night, a little icon comes up with one next to it that you got a new podcast to listen to, which is good to go.

Yeah, that one is, what do you call that? It's like a cue or something, and what they expect is what's called the variable reward. Anyway, that's a whole different thing. Nonetheless, you brought up variable reward go. What is this? Is this like the endorphins thing

where you see it and you get all excited? Yeah, kind of. So variable reward, it's like when you, it's like, really the iconic cases, any, like Facebook or whatever, You see the one, the alert. I got a message. It's something.

I don't know what it is. It could be someone talking good about me. It could be someone inviting me to play a game. It's a variable reward. Like it could be something with a high payoff. Could be low payoff. But I know it's something. You know, I don't know what it is.

Well, in this case, they want to click on it. In this case, I'm going to go ahead and say, I know it's going to be a high value reward. When I see that little one, I go, yes, I get to listen to the podcast. And I know what some people said it was weird. the podcast. I have to listen the podcast so I know A what we talked about, B, what we could do better. Yeah. See where we need to get better. Yeah. All those things. So I got to listen to it. Yeah, sometimes even when people, you know, like a lot of times, the podcast comes out the next day. A lot of us on Twitter are bringing up stuff, you know, that you said or what I said, whatever. And you'd be like, oh, wait, yeah, I didn't know it came off like that. Whether it's true or not or whatever. It's kind of like, so when you listen to it, you're You're like way more in tune. Now, this might be a backhanded compliment or not.

I'm not sure. But when you say something cool on the podcast, everybody loves it. Everyone goes nuts. Yeah. And I'm not trying to say that you don't say cool things often because I think you say a lot of cool things. But the ones that people capture and they go, yeah, Echo said this. They do, like they just flood the interwebs with Echo Charles's greatness. Yeah.

You know what that's like, it's like One, a two-year-old says like a word Or like a one and a half year old says a word And it's like, oh, oh my gosh, they said, I love you Everyone says I love you. It's just the fact that's not much expected. What did you say before we recorded? You said something like pretty legit before we recorded today.

What did you say? I don't know. Yeah, you do know what you said. You should say it again. You get all the people excited. Anyway. It might have been something about the Jocco store. It was a gem.

I don't remember. Okay. Always record. Always record. Tenacious D fans out there. You know exactly what I'm talking about. All right. Nonetheless, Jocco store, we could talk about that.

That's a good way to get in the game for sure. That's where all the shirts and stuff are. That was a really built-up moment. I'm saying here, and here's the thing about the shirts. We try to put some emphasis on multiple layers of shirts. You know how what's on the shirt, there's a hidden or not so hidden meaning. So, you know, a lot of times you know, you know the meaning. You know, if you listen to this and you're kind of in the game, you know the meaning, you know.

But it's not just a shirt with the design. There's meaning behind it. So that's why it's it. So, so if you listen, then you know, right? Yeah, exactly. And if you listen, then it makes no sense. it makes less sense put it that way but yes exactly right

there could be some there could be some shirts that make no sense to anybody yeah yeah and that's did you see so I put out the uh my old band when I was a kid and I tweeted this picture

yeah yeah yeah yeah the t-shirt that we had made my buddy had the silk screen still so I held it up the light I took a picture I posted it the name of the band was Bronson's children as in Charles Bronson

Who when I was a kid Charles Bronson I thought that he was the man And I thought it was the man Because he had awesome movies But I didn't care about that He was a war hero He was a He was in the World War II

Purple Heart He was a tail gunner Just a badass guy And so we Me and my buddies We thought Charles Bronson was the man So we had our man We called him Bronson's children

So we run that shirt Ooh that might be something People are going to But who's going to look at that and no, have any idea what that means? They're going to be like, hey, that kind of looks like Charles Bronson. It doesn't even kind of look like Charles. It's straight up looks like Charles Bronson. Yeah, it is Charles Bronson.

Well, yeah, they won't know, though. They won't know the estate of Charles Bronson. I don't know. His likeness. Yeah, we'd be definitely using his likeness. Yeah. But actually his wife, Jill Ireland, she died as well. I don't know who's, I don't know who's left the Bronson family.

I don't know. Maybe that'd be a good way to get in contact with us. Start producing their shirts and get sued by them. Yeah. So Bronson's children would get sued. You know, because you're Bronson's children. Variable reward there. Yep, okay.

I think the shirts are cool currently. The Bronson children, that's a deep one too. That's good. But they have layers, like I said. And I'm saying that's a good way to support. If you don't like the shirts, don't get the shirts. I would say, go, go, jocco story.com, go there, look at the shirts. If you don't like them, don't get nothing.

But just look. Could you get a rash card there? If you're so inclined to get a rash card, you can get a rash card for sure. The rash guards are good. I think that's almost like on a factual level where they're good. Well, there's a lot of people that have experienced the 19% increase in their jiu-jitsu skills. Yep. Or strength levels.

And running. so I had a what sucks is so now all my training partners or at least a lot of them are wearing trooper rash guards when they fight me so I'm having to fight these guys that are coming at me they all look the same they're all monster guys with trooper t-shirt or trooper rash guards on it's not fun

I'm getting beat up by my own people yeah 19% more than you were yeah 19% more oh it's rough man it's rough being jaco sometimes the but yeah the rash cards got a good kind of like kind of email conversation and he's telling me how wakes up in the morning, does a run, this is in,

I'm totally forgetting where it was, but just kind of the serenity contrasted with the trooper rash guard. It was nice. Nonetheless, you know, the rash guards are good if you're into it, Jiu-Jitsu surfing, running CrossFit. And I know you thought of this, I know we thought of this, but

you know, it's October right now. Yeah. 2016. And we, We need we need hoodies. What's the status? Can you please update me? Two weeks.

So by Halloween? By the end of the month, yeah. People are going to need trooper hoodies for Halloween. Just FYI, myself included. Yeah, yeah. We are going to need them. Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, hoodies coming out.

We went, I did like, it wasn't a poll. What do you do? You can do a poll on Twitter. I said pull over or zip up pull over one yeah for sure I strangely I like me well yeah that's jacked up and then actually I asked you long time ago when it was just like a theory like an idea and you were like pull over but I didn't agree but I didn't agree I was like pull over cool you don't know the zip up but yeah I I think they're both cool for sure but um pull over one yeah kind of by a landslide too yeah it's crazy no doubt um nonetheless so yeah pull over

there you go on the way two weeks this should be solid um and then you know other stuff some girls tanks t-shirts coming out um girls t-shirts girls t-shirts you're getting abused by the girls we'll just say persuaded

I see them roughen you up persuaded they chose not to flank but persuaded nonetheless they're all about the direct action for sure um so some women stuff on there and more and then some patches Again, with the size of the Velcro patches, the 2x3 is on the way.

Right now they're 4 by 4 across 3 inches down. That's big for the standard Velcro interchangeable, right? Right. Yeah, so just know that. 2x3s are on the way. Yeah. Good. I mean, 4 by 3 is fine, I guess,

but not for if you're interchangeable, and you've got a 2x3 thing. For all the military guys and law enforcement, they need 3 by 2. And this is, I should have told you that, made a little more clear. Yeah. But anyways,

we live and we learn. Yeah, so the main thing, go there. Jocco store.com is just the store with everything. Again, if you don't like it, don't get it, but look, you might like that one. And bumper stickers. Anyway. And also, on Amazon, you can go and get yourself some Jocco. White D.

Yeah. And it's sold, it sold, it's, it's selling amazing. and we've got a massive order on the way and we've also got some restock coming so it came originally in these really nice tins that cost a lot of money to make and so that's cool you want to have one of those tins

but if you're doing your reload you're gonna be able to buy in the next few weeks you're able to buy a reload a box with a hundred in it a hundred so you don't need like another 10 you can use the same tin refill it so that's coming and you know what if you're uncertain of whether or not you need the white tea it's real easy

you go to amazon you read you read the reviews you will be convinced because they are perfectly the jocco white tea is performing miracles evidently yes across the board so those are awesome go read those are funny as hell so and let's see also if you haven't gotten Extreme Ownership book by myself and my brother Laf Babin. Just go ahead and grab that book and own that book. Take Extreme Ownership of the book, Extreme Ownership, and you'll be good to go. And also if you have it, but there's other people that need it. Sometimes you need to take ownership of that situation as well.

And you just need to buy them a copy. And also, Extreme Ownership, The Muster, in San Diego, California, October 20th and 24th. First, it's a leadership conference. We're going to be talking about combat leadership and the application of those principles from combat and how you use them on the battlefield, how you use them in business and how you use them in life. So register. Come on out.

We'll see. Then it's getting close. Obviously, Laif's going to be there. Andrew Paul, who's on the podcast, is going to be there. Echo Charles will be in the house. So come on out and let's let's go. crush that as always if you do want to keep it real real real real with echo and with myself we kind of roll deep on the interwebs and we're there on Twitter for me primarily

Twitter also Instagram also that Facebook is there and we're both on echo is at echo Charles and I am at Jocko Willink and last but not least thank you out there you listening engaging

troops overseas and that are deploying overseas to hunt down evil thank you police and law enforcement with an incredibly hard job risking your lives to keep us safe thank you firefighters of course that literally run toward fire thank you and to the working men and women building creating fixing buying selling

designing, making this world. Thanks to each of you for what you are doing. For doing your bit, the best you can. And finally thank you all for getting after it. So until next time, this is Echo and Jocko. Out.