Jocko Podcast - 448: ONE MILLION DOLLARS. Winner Take All. Submission Fighting with Craig Jones.

Episode Date: July 24, 2024

Craig Jones talks CJI (Craig Jones Invitational) offering One Million Dollars to the winner. Also, steroids, and his co-ed match with Gabbi Garcia.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 448 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. Also, joining us tonight is Craig Jones. Craig Jones is a Gigi-2 black belt and a submission grappling practitioner from Australia who has competed at the highest level in the sport. Wrecked up a bunch of wins against a bunch of incredibly talented people. And he's done all that while.

maintaining a solid sense of humor and managed to become one of the most recognizable names in Jiu Jitsu with one of the most recognizable schools in Jiu Jitsu, the B team out of Austin, Texas. And recently he launched what will be the highest paying by a lot grappling competition of all time. The Craig Jones invitational C.J.I which will take place in August in Vegas. With competitors being paid $10,001 to compete and the bracket winners being paid $1 million, which is a lot of money.

And the prize money that has been being offered has brought in the best jiu-jitsu and grappling competitors in the world. And it's created quite a stir. And we'll get into that. Craig, thanks for joining us, man. Good to be here. Good to be here.

Thanks for swinging by the Open mat this morning. No worries. This is my first Navy SEAL podcast. Yeah, I know. And I know you're fond of that. And it is the first Navy SEAL podcast. I don't know about that. But yeah, the Navy SEAL podcast, listening to Navy SEAL podcast, taking ice baths and other recommended protocols for Apex Predatoring is, I know you're highly fond of those things.

Yeah, recovery is big on my to-do list. Yeah. You'll do it later. I guess some point probably need to see a doctor after Tijuana fish on right on man thanks for coming by so a little bit some people there's a few people left that listen to the podcast that don't train jiu jit-to you you grew up in australia born in 1991 yeah where australia you grow up adelaide like correct pronunciation there as well right on echo charles approved approved what your what your parents do

my dad was electrician my mom secretary cool and And at what point did you get into Jiu-Jitsu? Like, how old were you? I would say about 15 years old. What were you into before that? Australian rules football, a little bit of basketball, self-life-saving. Not good at any of those things, unfortunately. How'd you find Jitsu?

What year was it? What year was it? That's a great question. Man, my memory's bad on a week-to-week basis, but it probably would have been like 2006 around then. How'd you find it? My older cousin, who was a four-st-st-shot white belt, was teaching it so I'd go to his class

to be like two people there we really didn't have any black belts in the city nothing so we were just winging it I was just watching UFC matches trying to figure out what was going on my first teacher was like a high level white belt as well but it was 1992 so that was a lot back then

like if you were a high level white belt you could pretty much kick anyone's ass like it was pretty impressive so I'm sure your cousin was doing pretty well down there eventually yeah I mean I never even got exposed to a black belt until purple belt Like he would get promoted I'd have to wait for him to get the next bell

For me to get the next bell But we never I never even roll with a black belt For a long time When did you eventually get Like to a school Where you had a black belt teaching you I moved to Melbourne in 2015

To train with Lachland Giles So he offered me Offered me the coveted 6.8 a.m. morning class So I was able to move to Melbourne And then basically was there for two Two and a half years I'd been Purple Belt for years So pretty soon go to the Brown

and then one year later, a black ball. When you move there, your sole goal was to just train Jiu-Jitsu? Avoid real work, basically, prolong an existence without a nine to five. How many hours a day did you train? At your peak of like hours a day training,

how was your peak? Well, I would teach and train in the morning class 6.30, 7.30. I would train in our pro class, which would be 10.30, and then I would go lift some weights, maybe do some private lessons. and then I would teach a night class as well

and do some rolling in that. So it'd be like, there'd be a lot of training throughout the day. Far too much. Far too much to manage. It's very bad on the body, I think. Like three hours a day? You think of rolling jiu-jitsu? I would say so.

But obviously some of those were the beginning class is just easy stuff, but some of those rounds were tough. What's the most hours you ever put in, Echo Charles? In it one day? Yeah, but consistently. Yeah, like the regular, like weights and conditioning in the day. and then training at night. Yeah.

But yeah, no, nothing like that. But what about when BJ Penn is training like six hours a day, seven hours a day? You know what I mean? What about those days? No, I have none of those days, no. Did you ever do that, Craig? Never, never would either. I might lie about it.

I always would tell MMA fighters that you can train jiu-tzeo a lot. And if you roll kind of chill, you can roll more. Don't you think? Yeah, yeah. And you can still get a lot out of it. Pulling guard, yeah. You can do a lot of that, you know. But if you have to wrestle, then.

Yeah, no, wrestling's different. Wrestling's different, for sure. But that's what you did. You moved out to Melbourne so you could get good at Jiu-Jitsu and avoid having some sort of actual job. Avoid responsibilities. That's largely the goal I had then, and that's what's driven me to this point now,

where I'm basically a male feminist fighting for equality against the greatest women's grappling champion of all time, Gabby Garcia. Yeah, this is the match that you have coming up. This is the match coming up. Probably the biggest challenge of my entire career, 10-time world champion. She can't even count to 10-time world champion. She weighs 250 pounds minimum.

Me, 185 pounds soaking wet. I'm 5-11. She's 6'4. And that's going to be the match take, one of the matches taking place. Is that the only super fight? We have that one, and we have McKenzie Dern versus Fionn Davis. So the two biggest women's matches in history Nice

When did you start So when did you start competing hardcore When did you come to the States to compete? Oh, good question I mean I came way back in like 2013, 14 That's when I visited Victory But it would come as like a tourist And then do some tournaments

Celebrate party afterwards, you know But in terms of serious competition I mean I would do worlds and stuff But it's like a tournament anyone can enter you know I guess, EBI when I first did EBI which would have been 2017 was the first serious US sort of event I did. That then did you go from there to ADCC yeah I did the what did I do I did the EBI midway then I did ADCC and then I did the EBI absolute that was a year I probably had the biggest sort of

breakout when you did the ADCC is that the 2017 you submitted like Leandro Lowe and Leandro and Barilla I did 2015, but I did the one in Brazil, lost immediately first round to Homo de Bahal. But I just was in it for the free vacation of Brazil. 2017 took a little more serious. You lost to Keenan, right? I lost to Keenan. In Jeanje.

Yes, yeah. He did a little slippery thing on the restart, but I forgive him for it. And I also lost to... What did you learn from the slippery thing on the restart? What did he do? Well, in your opinion. He's not here to defend himself. I feel free to attack him because he was attacking the CGI because it coincides with this Hall of Fame speech.

So we'll circle back and attack him for this restart. But I went for a leg entry, I think, and then as he escaped, he sort of fleed the mat and I got a body lock. And we put him into a turtle position. And then the referee started us back up. Then he wouldn't let me lock my hands. And then he kind of turned around before the ref said, go. So I should have been more of arson. I insisted on my grips.

But that's not my style. Then I shot the flying triangle and lost points for it. Yeah, but we risked it all for glory for the highlight row. Were you still living in, on that run, were you still living in Australia? Yes, yeah, I was still in Melbourne. I'd been in Melbourne for about a year at that point. When you, would you come to the States, did you feel like the level was going to be better for your training here? At that, I mean, after that point, I mostly just try to make as much money as possible doing seminars.

And then I realized just doing seminars is not good for my competition records. So then I needed somewhat of a home base. to New York just everyone was no-gue focused at Henzo Grace's just seemed like the best spot had John had the full DDS crew there. What was the welcome aboard there like? What was it well I mean it was pretty friendly. What was that what was funny was I competed against Gordon at the EBI event and we both were doing Kassai the next week and that was when I popped his arm and then he ended up choking me with the same arm the bastard but the next week we arrived at Kassai and I was just winging it like I would just put on Instagram well I need a coach

for this event. So that's how I had Denny Prokopos in my corner for the EBI. Again, he's saying words that I didn't even know what they mean. You know about something that was distracting my opponent. But then at Kasait there was like four locker rooms and they just threw me in the locker room with Dana Ho's entire team. So I was like, this is strange. We just had the match last week and now I'm in the Lions down with them. But it was pretty friendly and then I just went and trained with the next week. Where did you live when you went to New York? I lived in Harlem, Brooklyn, and then ultimately I moved to Hoboken. Did you get a green card?

Like, how did you get over here? How did you say that? Was it just all illegal alien activity? I still don't. I'm still illegal alien. Every time I answer, I come to the Mexican border, waltz are out across. They look at me, they think I'm hiking.

How long did you spend, you stayed there. What was that? 2019 that you moved to there, to Donaheher? Yeah, so I did probably two and a half years in Melbourne, two and a half years with Donahoeffi I just destroyed the gym from within like a spy and then beating from then on out when you were training with Donna Heard

did you up your hours of training when you were there or no? We are good question actually It was kind of When we're in New York it was much more organized Because he had to rely on Hinsa Gracie's schedule To a certain extent Class on the schedule

Said at 1245 He would be on time 45 minutes late every session. So I think we'd do two a days, three days a week, one a day, three days a week. And if you were lucky, you'd give you Sunday off. I'd always take a rest day. I'd insist on that rest day. And then when we went down to Puerto Rico, the schedule was open. He could use the gym any time he wanted.

So sometimes those classes would be like over three hours, just way too much, just for me, killing me. Did you start breaking down physically or just get back? board. In New York, I would get staff every month, every month. I think that's like a bit of over-training as well. I think everyone's got a different sort of workload they're capable of. For me, mine's at the very bottom. Minimum. That's where I'm optimized. So then you guys all took off and went down to Puerto Rico. Yeah, we went down. And when you were in Puerto Rico, you're saying that some the classes would be three hours long and it was in the middle of COVID and you just had nothing to do about jujitsu. Yeah, I loved Puerto Rico. Puerto Ricans hated me. That was a real big hurdle for us

down there. You know, like, I think they think I'm down there dodging tax is super rich. Unfortunately, not. That was not the case, but that's the, that's the vibe. I felt like we gave down there. Then who left, who left Puerto Rico first? I mean, yeah, this is, this is what the story gets is weird. You know what I mean? Because it's like we were in Puerto Rico. We all university kind of wanted to leave because it's just hard to have responsibilities down there. It'd be awesome if you lived in that bubble they call it, which is like the Dorado Beach, Ritz-Culton hotel combination and you had like an assistant that would go do everything for you. But like you have to live in a regular apartment down there and do run your own errands. You don't know how long that's going to take.

You know, like they'll send you on a wild goose chase. I remember I didn't have keys to mailbox and you'd think oh wow that must be an easy thing to get not easy at all I asked the apartment building they're like we don't know ask the owner he's like we I don't know asked the landlord I don't know everyone just keeps sending a different direction turned out what I had to do which should have been obvious was buy a new lock for the mailbox and wait until the mailman arrived and then we changed the lock together you know so it's like that sort of level of chaos was too much for me I had to get out of there and did you know you were going to Texas? Yeah, we wanted to go to Texas because Floe grappling was there and it was also

central. If we were in New York, we'd have to travel to California to compete be a bit of annoying. During COVID, there were tons of grappling events with Flo grappling in Austin, Texas. Unfortunately, nowadays they're putting them in these random Texas cities because I think they were getting really good discounted deals on the whatever venues they hired during COVID because no one else wanted him now we're in austin but most of the shows are in other parts of texas when you you so there's this big split up with uh don her death squad and you guys and you end up with uh your crew and did they did you guys all know that you were all going to end up in texas or is that just a weird awkward thing that just happened well honestly down here and gordon were the ones

making good enough money to probably justify living in porto rico and dodge those taxes you know what i mean So when the team split up, we just didn't know for sure whether they would just stay there because they really did want to open a gym there. So then we decided we'd move to Texas because we had a gym available to us, basically turnkey operation. And then they- Whose gym was that? By business partner, Seth Belial, he's running the C.J.I. Got it, got it.

But basically then they followed too. So we all ended up in Texas anyway. Austin, Texas, super strange. They're north-side, west south side. cross-past too much. Yeah. In that time,

are you feeling like your Jiu-Zitsu is getting better? You're still improving. You're still training all the time. You end up with freaking Nicky Rod

and Nicky Ryan. I mean, you put together the B team's freaking badass. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was like we didn't know

who was going to go with who initially. It ended up basically being the original TDS crew minus Eddie Cummings wherever he is. So Gordon, Gary,

John all stayed together. They kept Taza. Some of the guys that stayed were like, oh, you can keep them. Some people were sad. They didn't come with us, but you know it is when the team splits up. Yeah, so we had Nikki Rod, Ethan, Nicky Ryan, Damien Anderson. He hesitated. He stayed with them for a little bit and then came over later.

But yeah, both of us got pretty big teams now. John just rebuilt, hired in some new guns, brought in Marigali, the Brazilian. Yeah, they're kicking ass. too. Cool. And so now you're, you're doing all kinds of competition at this point. You got freaking, oh yeah, yeah, you said, do I feel like I'm improving? I mean, my goal is always just to sell instructional. So like, I'm motivated by creativity to see avoiding the instructional market, because that's the biggest cash cash cash. So in terms of improvement, I measure in, can I hit moves that'll sell in instructional rather than the overall art of the sport. You're not about the art, you're about

the money. About the money, for sure. The little money. Yeah, I'm in the wrong. spot for money when you were doing like what were you doing for money in New York what were you doing for money in Puerto Rico just seminars oh that's right you know it's awkward enough is I didn't know what only fans were you're the first person that I knew that I heard of only fans on I know that's a look I'm a 50-year-old married man dude like that's a story I stick to so I see you with like this only fans thing and I didn't really know what it was and then I very quickly it out echo jarls yeah yes well that's actually the secret funder of the tournament is that me and gabby's

collaboration will make the three million dollar investment back betting on myself for that so you but you were kind of early into only fans right yeah yeah i mean to be honest i shouldn't say this now because they could still sue me but i thought i'd be funny to sell rash guys that said to subscribe to me on only fans and then they were really successful and i was like shit they might sue me And I'm like, what if I start an only fans and I'm just marketing my own position on their platform. But isn't that what OnlyFans is for? Yeah, but I was selling clothing with the logo on it.

Oh. But then I thought, hey, if we're on the platform, is it still copyright infringement, you know? Did they ever come at you? Not yet. Maybe I'll probably. They will now. But you were doing instructionals on Onlyfans? Yeah, I would do anything, honestly.

A lot of the time, if people pay me the money, I'd do anything. A lot of the time they'd pay me to send direct insulting messages to their training partners. So I'd be like, hey, can you send this Instagram hand away direct message? And I just send them a video message assaulting them, telling them everyone in their gym hates them. How much would you make for an insulting video? It started a $50 a video, but I had to put up to $100 because I guess how many people hate their training partners. That'd be most of it.

And would you come up with your own original material for these insults? They'd give me a little, a couple hints. So it'd be a real personal attack on them. I get that too. Some people will get me to, you know, hey, can you, hey, my buddy, you know, Fred's not here. He was supposed to come out, but he chickened out at the last minute. Can you tell him, you know, can you talk some shit to him and get all fired up for me to tell their buddy Fred that, you know, hey, we're down here training. Where are you at?

You're weak. Boom. And they're all fired up. I don't charge money for it, but I guess I'm not that smart. I don't know for the love of the game. Yeah, just for the love of talking. It is a weird thing, though, right? Talk smack to my friends.

I don't know. But it works. So is that where you got, that's where you made your money from? That and the instruction is mostly the instruction. Oh, that's right. So BJJ Fanatics.com. Yeah, those guys. Actually, I counted your instructionals the other day.

You have 26 videos on BJJ. I'm running out of ideas now. BJJ Fanatics.com. That's all the moves I've got. BJJ Fanatics.com, they have, it's so awesome that you could. Imagine if you had had that back in the day when you were on Adelaide, Australia, and you're learning from a four-stripe white belt.

Yeah, I would have been sick because I couldn't have afforded them, but I would have illegally downloaded them. Yeah, they would have figured something out. It's unbelievable you can do that now. That exists. We used to have to, because I'm older than you. And we...

I had the books, too. I used to read the books. Yeah, we had the books, but we had the Gracie in Action videos, and we had the UFC. There's, like, six videos of UFC, should watch those. But you really couldn't tell too much

of what was going on in those early UFCs. Weren't getting a ton out of it. But nowadays, with BJJ Fanatics and all the other online instructionals, only fans with Craig Jones. Do you do instructionals on there though? Are you like, hey, here's an arm lock escape or whatever?

I'm going to start doing it again. We're trying to talk them into sponsoring our event because it would be good to have there to participate in the Gabby Garcia match in some. regard, you know, especially as a co-lab afterwards, but I might end up back on the platform. I'm trying to decide between that and Patreon for some sort of behind the scenes. I'll still put the full instructionals out, but behind the scene stuff on the travels that maybe keep it buying a paywall somewhere.

Yeah, that'll work. So you're doing, but you're still competing. Do you enjoy competing? Not really. No. I don't really like it at all. It's hard. Well, I'd rather get paid to do other things.

Yeah. A lot of pressure. And you've racked up some serious second place wins over the years. Every tournament there is. I've got a silver medal. You've been the champion of like Polaris. You've won some championships. But you've also have won some significant second place matches.

More famous for the losses, you know. Those are really it. And that's obviously last 80th, I was in the final against Kynna and Dwach. I don't know if you remember that one. I'm trying to think, what happened in it? They gave him 24 negative points. and I still couldn't win. So that's when I was like,

this organization must be corrupt. I need to start my own. You got 24 negative points? I think it was 12 or so. They really tried to give me the win. And that's something I won't stand for. I won't fail in. Submission Underground

with Kail Sonnen, you've done that. I won so many matches on there and then he goes, you know what? You can face Mason Fowler and we'll give the winner a belt. Bang, lost immediately. There's something on the line. I lose.

How about combat jiu-jitsu? You did that against Donald Serroney. I did that. Yeah, I did that against Cowboy. We went down in Mexico for that. You're a lot bigger than he is, aren't you? Yeah, that's why I picked the match. Gotta be strategic.

Did you just watch Glover? Watch Glover? Against Jeff Glover. Oh, against Uriah. Yeah, against Uriah. How did that go? Isn't Glover banged up, though? Yeah, I mean, Glover's banged up.

You could see that one of those two individuals has been training MMA for a long time and like wrestled. You know, I love Glover. Like he's a friend and he's freaking, his jiu-jitsu is phenomenal. But, you know, you got to train for a match like that. Literally train for a match like that.

It's a different thing. And I heard Glover afterwards, he said he was so freaking exhausted, you know, five minutes into it. He put a dars on him. Like, he had some stuff on him. And look, Your eye is obviously dude he's a freaking a champion in his own right but it was a bummer to watch and

You need to train for that I mean basically Jeff went in with pure jiu jitsu and You know Jeff's what's Jeff 40? I think Jeff is 40 something like I don't know how you arise put not yeah Yeah he's older yeah he might even be older huh it it feels like it I don't there with their similar age but you know Yeriah was a UFC athlete for his basically his whole adult life and probably a healthier lifestyle too i'm just gonna hazard a guess that's part i would say yeah yeah yeah no last boss for jeff glover i don't think no jeffs live the full life you know i respect jeffs jujitsu sick sick it's so sick off god sick i miss bill cooper too bill cooper and him back in the

day oh yeah those guys were freaking awesome and actually bill's still like competing right now and obviously jeff is too jeff is crazy unorthodox flexible like weird like it's weird yeah he needs to i don't know how he translates that to instructional sales that might be targeted at the the girlfriend market of a jihitsu athlete i appreciate that uh how about coaching on the ultimate fighter you did that too how was that how did you like that that was fun but i don't really enjoy m mhm coaching because it's so like i don't know mhms so violent you know it's like your friends like when you become attached to those i mean there's no consequences in jiu jitza what's the worst that could happen but when it's your friends and stuff out there i don't know it's hard we see

get knocked out or something bad happen so like in terms of the mama coaching it feels much much more serious and it's also much many more consequences there so it's like i i steer clear to coaching a lot of mma guys just because of that do you but you enjoy coaching volk for sure for sure well and he's obviously personal friend as well so it's like i love that aspect of it, but also it is horrible when your guy loses way way worse than taking a jit-tizuel. Yeah, dude, getting hit in the head and knocked out is rough for your life. And it's different for different people, by the way, too, because some people get knocked out a bunch of times and they grow up and they get old and they're fine.

Some people, it really does a lot of damage to them. How about being on the TV show and everything? What was that like? I mean, they learned quickly to keep me off the air as much as possible. Oh, yeah. Definitely didn't appreciate some of the humor. I was in the background there, but I tried. They edited a lot of Greg Jones content from that event.

Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, they got angry because I was fucking with the COVID test as well at the time. Like, we pretend to put Ortega's test up our ass, but they did not like that. They wanted to find me for that. What do you do with the COVID test? That was the back of the throat one. Oh, so intimate exposure. So they didn't like that too.

Did it make the show or no? No, they cut it out. And they told me not to post it on social. that kick me off the show. The man. I should ask for forgiveness, not permission. Yeah, you were a little slow on that one. So back to ADCC 2020, you losing the fourth round.

And did that leave a bad taste in your mouth, like worse than normal? Because that finals or what? Like, no, I'm pretty accepting of defeat. I'm totally okay with it. I ended up doing the 99 that year because I had two teammates in the 88. And if I had done the 88 kilos, it would have been those two guys would have had to face off first round. And I also looked at 99. I said that might be easier.

So I tried to stack on the way for it. And kind of just, I had Merigali. How much did you weigh going into it? I think 215. And some of those guys. What's your walk around weight? I don't even know right now. I'm better even check the scales now.

Probably 205 to a 10 flux right around there The 215 back then was a bit of a more Juiced up ready for ADCCC It was a Gabby Garcia-esque posture off How long before a competition Do you go on steroids? I would just stay on always Like what I mean?

Do you ever see a doctor or whatever Or do you just kind of play it by ear? They reach out to me from time to time About the blood pressure Now I'm actually in between between testosterone replacement therapy sponsorships. So I was on Evertight in Texas, and now we can't announce it yet,

but I've moved to a national brand of TRT. How much better do you feel when you do it? Oh, incredible, yeah. How old are you? 33. You feel incredibly better. Yeah, much better, much better. Because I feel like if your diet's poor,

your sleep's poor, your lifestyle's poor, if you're on TRT, those test levels never change. You know what I mean? Bad diet tests. I would say the same. And that's the stability we want in life. Yeah. Cutting cornice.

So you're, can you, can you, is it just like, I had a friend that was in, was like a cyclist. And he said when, when someone's a cyclist and they're on it is like a different, it's like a different kind of human being. Do you feel like that much better when you're on it? For me, I do so many things that bring me below. line. I feel like it just equals me out of it. So you're just feeling like you break. It's a break. Yeah. It's like it just gives me back to, you know what I mean? That middle ground, middle of the road. I feel, I mean, some guys will say they inject they feel it that day. I feel nothing. I can sometimes I'm lazy. I forget to

inject it, you know. I feel no different. Does anybody, but were the people in Texas were guiding you down this? Yeah. Oh yeah. We had a protocol for sure. My basic protocol was, um, tests, uh, Cipenae, a little bit of Decker, not too much because you get the infamous Deca dick, and then Anava as well, throwing some annavah from, get spicy from time to time. It's like just the basic, the basic stuff. Bit of Seales, blood pressure is good, too. Obviously, I'm not taking enough.

Blood pressure is sky high. What do they say about, like, your long-term health? Well, here's the thing, right, we'll be transferred to the new T.R.T. That was like, listen, we need to give you a battery of tests. Make sure you're not going to die on us during the sponsorship. Oh, yeah, yeah, that would not be good. Her wellness center. Did you see the Ronnie Coleman on, that was my reference, was Ronnie Coleman on Joe Rogan,

where Joe was like asking him what kind of steroids he took back and he's like, oh, no, just the basic stuff. Just Decker, test, Winston, like, he just kind of went down the stuff. Just the basics. I was like, dang. The craziest one's hallow testing. What is this now? That's the strongest aral steroid out there.

What's it called? Halos, halotesting. And what is it? Have you tried it? I've tried it, yeah. What does it do? It'll actually make your dick beggar, but also if you take it too long, you've got liver failure pretty quick, so you've got to be careful on it.

And you've tried it? Yeah, it didn't work for me. When you say it didn't work for you, what do you mean? Like, you didn't feel anything? No, no, obviously it worked in that sense, but yeah, I've tried it before. All about making you dick big. Yeah. Yeah.

Lost size, actually, I think. It sucks. Work for Gabby, but. No, I try to, I try to, but, I mean, some of those bodybuilding things, it's just for bodybuilding, you know? Like, you take that, you try to do any cardiovascular exercise. It's not going to be too conducive. Like, some guys taking Tran out there.

Like, I know a former teammate of mine would love a bit of trend. Have you tried Tren? I've not tried Tren. No, that's the one I haven't tried. That sounds a bit too crazy. I've heard it's pretty crazy. And Echo Charles and I send memes to each other back and forth in reels and whatnot about Tren. I heard it makes you gay.

I heard some of the guys ever in Thailand. Have you heard this? No. I have not heard of that. I heard there's a correlation between Tren in Thailand. land and an interesting lady boys. We don't know any trend for that interest like, you know. So, so at what point did you get the idea for C.J.I.

Because this is a pretty revolutionary thing going on. You know, one of the reasons I was asking you about money and how you made money was because Jiu Jitsu, I've had this conversation with quite a few Jiu Jitsu, like top level guys in the world. I remember I had this conversation with, with Dean Lister with Jeff Glover. I was like, Jeff, if you were this good at basketball, you'd be a, you know, you'd be worth $100 million.

If you were this good at whatever football, you'd be worth $100 million. Unfortunately, you're just really good at Jiu-Jitsu, and that's why you're living in your van, Jeff Glover. You know, like, he's one of the best of all time. Yeah, for sure. And, you know, just don't make much money from it. So this, what you've put together is a total game changer.

And I heard the Routolo was talking about it. You know, you started about injecting a million dollars. That's how much money people make in their whole lives in a normal job. They make that money in 30 years in a normal job. So this is a, it's a game changer for the sport. When did you come up with the idea for it? Honestly, I think it was, I was in Dubai for karate combat, and I was talking to the investor.

He's not in Dubai, but we were just on the phone. He's just like a friend of mine. and I was like, so what started the beef was, people kept asking me if I was doing ADCC. And I said, well, you win four matches against the best of the word

you get $10,000. I'm like, that's hard to be motivated to do a training camp. I put myself through more hallow testing and all these other substances. So I just wanted a bit more conversation. And my thoughts were if Floo grappling can pay

seven plus figures for the streaming rides and they can sell 10,11,000 seats, surely they could pay us some more money. So that was my first sort of, that's the frame of reference I was coming at. And then this is the conversation you're having with the investor for karate combat. So I had this, I put this in a YouTube video because people kept asking me. And then the response to that was basically Seth Daniels, who's ADCC organizer, Mo Jassum's sort of right-hand man, was like, basically, you're an idiot. You don't know what you're talking about.

like T-Mobile, which is a new venue, cost $2 million for the weekend. So he throws that out there like an idiot and we're all like, well, why would you spend $2 million on a venue for a jih Tutsu competition? And that's when sort of the back and forth started going down, obviously, a lot of emotions. I'm over there for karate combat. I'm thinking of a way is to just provoke them into having to pay more money. So I thought, you know what I'll do? I'll do a seminar week of ADCC and I'll give the money, the proceeds of that to the guys

that lose on the first day of ADCC because they get no money. If you lose on day one, zero dollar. You walk away with zero dollars. So I told my friend this and he's like, how much prize money? He's like, let's just fucking put our own tournament on the same day. That'd be funny. And that's basically where it started. That's its origins.

And you end up getting a big investment. Big investment, yeah. Of what, $3 million? $3 million. Is this person like a, are they known? Are they like a, not a famous person? Just an anonymous giving it to us giving me too much power with this money, I think, and that you did too loud.

I know. This is almost like a weird movie where just give some random crazy guy $3 million. Let's see what happens. The best is Seth Daniels literally was like, if you don't like ADCC, get your own $2 million and run your own event. And I was like, well, fucking hell are else. Yeah. That's sort of the start of the whole thing.

And, I mean, we all still love ADCC. Like, the history is so cool. It's like the history of no-gey grappling, really, except it's just that, in my opinion, the latest promoters just wasting money on things that weren't important while saying he couldn't afford to pay the athletes more money. The women's, there were two women's divisions.

They would get 6K, men would get 10K. To win? To win? To win, yeah. And the women's divisions were only eight people instead of 16. So then they kept saying, I didn't know what I was talking about.

And then as soon as we started, their competitors started jumping ship, seeing the million instead of the $10,000, a medal, they had to change something. So the first thing they did was they raised the women's paid it to being equal of men's, and he did it easily after saying that he couldn't do it. And then they started paying different amounts of show money. So the prize money is 10K. Then show money started going out, which is something they've never done before. And that's completely, I guess, the promoter, Mo's, it's within his realm of responsibility to do that.

But then the problem with that is if you start giving now different people different amounts to show money Someone like me is going to hear about that and tell all the other competitors they now ask for more money So when you say show money that's the money to show to show up right That's what we do with ours they get 10k to win right you get $10,001 to participate in our event Yeah, oh yeah because it's more just a little bit more yeah, yeah, but he's as far as I know allegedly some of those guys are getting six figures show money which is so crazy because the prize money is 10 so you get maybe 100k to show 10k to win yeah it's it's it just raised the prize money you know what I mean like it's hilarious yeah and then you earn it right because

look I don't want anything to hurt but if I'm already getting 100k to show up and you catch me in a freaking heel hook I'm just going to be like tap and like okay I'll get you next year or whatever yeah damn less that 10k yeah yeah but if there's a hundred k yeah but if there's a hundred k to show up and you there's a hundred grand on the line, then I'm probably going to go a little bit harder and maybe lose my ACL or whatever, but I can get surgery on that, right? Rules.

Let's talk about these rules that you got going on in this. Who came up with the rule set? I felt like the thing I did, mostly, yeah. Okay, so first thing, it's three, five-minute rounds. Three-fives, yeah. Because we just didn't want to, like, sometimes you watch a match where a guy takes the guy's back he holds it for 10 minutes or so.

You know, like we want the action to be pushed the entire time. How do you avoid 10 or five minutes or let's say four minutes of patty cake, stand up, fake shots, crappy wrestling, you know, a takedown for one minute holding on the ground? Now we get stood up again for five more minutes, three more minutes, five more minutes of patty cake. How do you avoid that? Well, I think basically the patty cake problem is the mat space. there's no push-out role in a regular jih Tuditou events you can just go out of bounds like we can't do a cage

because cage being vertical and guys are so good defensively on the fence then we just have fence wrestling for like MMA guys obviously use strikes amongst the fence wrestling to open up the wrestling to open up the wrestling

so then we basically saw the angled walls karate combat use and that what that does it means if you back up it's two years your disadvantage because if they should a take down and you're anywhere near you're not going to be able to sprawl your back's going to hit it they're going to be able to take you down so theoretically how tall are the walls that's a great question i should know because i've competed in they like waist high though no no no they'll be up to like they'll be above my shoulders high oh dang yeah so you're got

you're not getting out of that pit too easy dang that's why actually i remember the karate combat guys time of that problems initially because the pit never used to open so if a guy got knocked out bad enough like how do you get him out of the pit you have to drag him on the wall you know so they had to create a pit that would open so they could stretch your guys out this is good my i used to think it would be cool to have jiu jitoo matches in a big salad bowl yeah it's got to be yeah you got to something that's negative about backing on yeah where you can't like you know a salad bowl gets steep towards the top so you could kind of back away but eventually you would get to where you couldn't back away anymore so you kind of created a salad bowl scenario juggs guys love to toss some salad for sure

So you got that going for you. No ref, basically very little referee interference. Although ADCC, there's a lot of cool highlight rules that go out of bounds. It is a safety hazard, crashing at the table. Like, obviously, Sean Gi Hibero is good at those out of bounds rules. How do you view the thing if you've got a shoulder high wall around the thing? Is it repressed or something like that? This was very expensive choice for us, unfortunately, is we had to basically build a elevated platform around it.

So obviously they're really good seating. They're going to seat straight in to the pit. That must have been expensive. Crazy expensive. Very, very expensive. Yeah, the pit's a big investment. I think it's going to cost us a lot of money to have that pit build. But it's very important because it's like it's just showing there's a better sort of platform for people to compete in.

They karate combat calls the pit. We call ours the alley. Interesting. This is like we're fighting in an alley. You act like that. Yes, sir. You approve of that. Approve.

Yeah, I need to do one of two things in an alley. Yeah, that's true. All right. So number one, number one rule, we got three five-minute rounds. And to prevent Paddy Cake, we've got, and by the way, by Paddykeek, if you don't know what I'm talking about, if you go to some J-Jitsu competitions, if there's a couple people that are either good at wrestling and they don't, not good at J-J-J-J-Zoo, they don't want to go to the ground. So they'll just, like, play Patty Cake for five minutes, which is really good at wrestling. really boring to watch. So in order to get rid of that, you've got these, the alley.

Three, five-minute rounds. Ten point must system. So this is like MMA in the fact that at the end of each round, someone's going to get ten points if they dominated the round, and someone's going to get less than ten points, either nine or whatever. And they have to, that's the way it has to be. Can they have a draw? Can it be nine-nine in one of those rounds?

I mean, it's a 10 point master. It has to be. Someone has to get 10 unless they get a negative. We will do negatives if people are obviously stalling or just being overly evasive. But what we're really hoping is that guys can strategize because they know the pit to back someone into the pit or to the angled wall. We should call the alley for legal purposes. Yes, we'll call the alley. Is to their detriment.

So we're hoping that a lot of the stalling penalties won't need to come into effect because by someone backing up, there's incentive to chase them. Because if they back up into that angled wall, they'll be at a disadvantage. Whereas if someone backs up into open space of an out of bounds, the ref will be like, stop, stop, reset. Is there only one match at a time?

One match at a time, yeah. How big is the alley? 30 by 40. Big, big alley. Yeah, that's a big size. Oh, yeah, that's a big size. Big alley for a big woman. We needed a right enclosure.

So at the end of each round, there's going to be judging how are you picking the judges how are we picking up whoever's going to be most biased towards my team for the million and the 10% I'm going to take off those guys now we've got Jason Herzog involved

as a head head ref and then the judging team we've secured like three of the five now because obviously it's going to be a long day that first day is going to be long ADCC do first day three mounts so they can chew through a lot of matches

at once us one one mat space two divisions it's a long day hopefully there's some quick finishes but again like he said with the amount of money on the line I think it's gonna be

some serious injuries when the Gracies used to do I think it was actually Hickson that used to run this tournament it was no time limit and you could win by 15 points or submission and I mean this was back in the day

but most of those matches were short shorter than, you know, like some half hour drawn out thing. So you never know. This might go quicker than people expect because they want to get it done. Some of the judging, I know you got some rules here. Here's the number one thing is initiating action, which people are getting judged. So the person that's being aggressive and getting after it is going to have the nod in the judge's minds.

The second thing is close submissions. So getting close to a submission, you get something. I've heard this describe before as like, if I have to defend it, then it's close. Yeah. Is that kind of the... I mean, basically that's the way we see it as... Yeah, if there's a real threat. See, obviously, you want judges that train to know what's a real threat, what's not a real threat.

I think, obviously, the judges will have three different angles to see it. Hopefully two of the judges can get a clear line of sight. Oh, because they're on different sides of... the alley of the alley yeah so hopefully two of the three be able to see whether that's an authentic submission attempt or whether it's something to look you know what i mean some some guys will just we don't want guys just diving on shitty footlucks and stuff we want those to be real threats you know what i mean so if you shoot a a single get put in a guillotine and the guy doesn't react at all it's kind of like it's not a really serious threat but if he panics out of the

guillotine obviously that's going to change yeah if he has to flop on his back to avoid getting guillotine and then that's yeah exactly we want to see like uh we want to we basically kind of know who wins at exchange even even when you have scrambles in the gym you kind of like you might have initiated but you go oh that guy definitely followed up with a better sort of attack out of that exchange you got some good judges that know what's up for sure yeah we want guys to train guys for the sport um not only number two was closed submissions it's also dynamic action so if you get a sweep if you get a take down if you get a pass all those things are sort of there's no like necessarily points but the in the judge's mind those are adding to the that person's score towards 10 I guess for sure yeah

in a sense of like we will do we do want the positional control as well again but guys will game any real set you know they're like obviously eb i overtime people just decided to stall into overtime save their energy to overtime so really we want to keep the rules not super explicit so that they can, you know what I mean? They can take advantage of the rules set, you know, you always have, we have these rules meetings, even at Five Pass, we had the last one. There was, man, the rules meeting went for two hours because guys were trying to ask the same question about how could they stall and get away with it and they'd ask in a different

way every time, you know, we want these to be authentic, we want these guys to be trying to kill each other the entire time. Well, we'll get to the million dollars because that's going to make some people try and kill each other. And then the number three is positional and dominant control. So if you get a cross, what if I get cross-side and I just hold the person there? I mean, in my opinion,

if you took the guy down or swept him, pass to side control, and the guy puts up no offense, I'd give that a 10-8. Give that a 10-8 for sure. Yeah, you know, there's, There is something to be said about Jiu-Jitsu and the fact that, like,

if you get your guard passed and someone's a cross-side on you and you're laying there and you can't get out, that's really, if you're in a fight, bro, that's a real problem. You're losing. Yeah, you're losing bad. In Jiu-Jitsu is no big deal. But in a real fight, you're losing bad

and you're not putting forth any, you know, advance. So I think that makes sense. So that'd be a full on 10-8, huh? Yeah, I think bad. If the guy puts up no offense at all, to me it's a 10-A, like in MMA, that'd be the 10-A. But also, like, say you take me down, you get to my back, but you don't get the second hook. Say you have one hook, but I still was in this bad position the entire time. It's like, we don't want to be held.

Oh, you didn't get the second hook. It's not a 10-8. That's basically as dominant as it gets positionally. You just didn't secure the second hook. What about if I'm going to pass your guard and you turtle up? turtle up I mean I think you've made me do something

so it's an offensive movement but I think obviously we don't want them to just assume if that's all that happens obviously you're going to win the round good but it wouldn't be a 10 a because I always think that's one of those things like getting the hooks in jiu jitsu

like oh I got your back and you just manage to keep my foot from getting in there and I don't get any points or whatever same thing when I pass your guard and what you do is turtle up and I didn't get any points for that either even though now I can just punch you in the back of the head

until you're knocked out, but there's no punching. So I think that makes sense. Yeah, for sure. And that's interesting about the ADCC scoring too, is that if you sort of turtle, turtle's quite a safe position. If you take someone down, they scramble to a turtle,

hold for three seconds, roll back the guard. Now it's so longer a takedown. But I still think, in my opinion, you've still done something pretty substantial there. I'm surprised that rule hasn't been changed. The turtle should not be considered like a safe thing.

It should be considered a horrible thing. I mean, it's basically like you pass the guard. If I get you to turtle and you're just showing me your back and all turtled up, that's ridiculous. You either on a take down or guard pass. Echo Charles? Yeah. I could see that. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, it's way different than the guard. It's actually the, in wrestling you get, that's two points. That's, well, now it's three points. But that's take down for sure. Someone turtles. Game over. Yeah. You're out.

Yeah. All right. Slamings allowed. The judges. So I'm right in a factor. I think I'm right. I interpreted this right that you're going to post the scores after each round. Yeah, because we want the open score.

And we don't want the decision at the end to come as a surprise. Because jihisi guys, they largely don't want to compete in a rule set they're unfamiliar with. But a lot of what we're doing here is we've added rounds. And at least with the open scoring, they'll know where they're at the end of each round. But say, for example, the first rounds of 10-8. To me, you win the next two. If it's a qualifying round and not the final, and it's a draw, we're going to do it like in wrestling last point wins.

So we don't want the guy that wins the 10-8 to think he can just coast to victory. Whoever wins the last round wins. So we want action the entire time. And the finals has an overtime round? The final will be five-fives and West some miracle to draw will go another round. But I think it would be tough, very tough, very rare MMA sort of draws over five rounds. Yeah, yeah, no, that's not going to happen, most likely. You're doing this, one of the motivations for you doing this

that I've seen you talk about is the Fight Foundation, the Fair Fight Foundation. What's that all about? Fair Fight Foundation, or is it, dot org or dot com? That's a good question. I should know that for sure, right? We'll put it in the show notes, just. You don't have show notes.

Okay, Charles. Well, I mean, that was the old joke. It's like, Jitza doesn't make a profit, so why not make it a non-profit? But we're basically donating the profits it's on top of the event from that initial $3 million investment to go back towards charities. So luckily we're doing tap cancer out. Awesome.

And Richard Byrne is a blackboard from New York. He used to run Kasai grappling. Okay. And we've got him on board. He's basically for every dollar we donate to tap cancer out, he's going to dollar for dollar match. Does he have a cap on that? No cap on that. Oh, damn.

So Rich is a baller. So hopefully we can make him right. Put the pressure on them. Let's put the pressure on him. And then we're letting some of the athletes pick. Because we wanted some of the athletes to have a say in where those charity dollars go. So for me, personally, we try to do some film projects with the Fair Fire Fire Foundation.

We've got one coming out about Bali, sort of like the theme of the Syria. I mean, it's like, well, we're trying to do what Bourdain did for food, but we're trying to do it, make Jiu-Jitsu a bit cooler than sort of it is. You know, it's a fine. It's more interesting people in the sport that are cool, watching the sport, not as cool. But we'll do charity aspects each episode. So there's, we worked with a charity in Indonesia and Bali, Dempasar, one of the slums called A.K. Australian guy teaches Jiu-Jitsu,

helps out the local community. So for me, that'll be my personal choice of charities. We're going to donate. I'm going to donate a portion of tickets sales to him. You were just on Instagram doing some kind of Turkish wrestling, right? Is that right? Oh, yeah. With Luke Rockhold?

Turkish oil wrestling, yes. And so this is, I heard you talking about this today when we were training, that this is kind of the idea to go try different grappling like historical grappling or cultural grappling around the world we'll try anything the Turkish one is the longest concurrently ran sporting event in the world

so I think they've been doing it for over 500 years and that's get some leather pants lather themselves up with oil some of those matches got 30, 40 minutes some of those dudes are huge over 300 pounds did you train against any of them we trained against one local guy he sort of took us to the main show

we had a connection with basically considered the ghost of Turkish oil wrestling and he sort of hooked it all up for us when we were over there but we trained in the park with one of the local guys put the leather pants on and stuff was fun. Luke came ready,

he had leather pants ready to go but obviously we used their traditional leather pants in the end but that's interesting experience can you submit people? You can't submit people in there but we were cheating when we're facing each other but I mean

you can grab the the inseam of the the pants, but you can grab inside the pants and grab the fabric, because obviously, there's hard to make grip, so we're reaching deep in there. I believe that's the origins of the oil chair. It dates back to ancient Turkey. And what was the, in Bali? They're just doing jiu-jitsu.

Yeah, just a jiu-jitsu gym. He sort of trains the local kids, and then he tries to help them. Like, he will be releasing this pretty soon, but he sort of helps the local community, because Bali's full of Ozzy's going there to party and have fun. It's like our Mexico. But no many people see the poor slum side. So like he's one of the few Aussies that's doing good over there, they're not doing some damage.

You know, I was thinking about this competition again, the CJAI. And one of the things I just was as we were talking, thinking about, I heard this story when they invented the Adam bomb that, don't quote me on this. but it's like when you've split that first hydrogen molecule, there was a chance. Like some of the scientists thought, well,

when we split that one and it releases this energy, that's going to hit other hydrogen, and those are going to split, and that's going to hit other ones, and it's basically going to destroy the earth. Like, there's a certain part of this that was just unknown when they did it for the first time,

that we might just literally blow up the entire earth and kill everybody. And they had some whatever math figures that they were like, well, it probably won't happen. But when you take the best grapplers in the world like you're doing, and then you put a million dollars into the mix,

this could create total a reaction that we haven't seen before. Because, again, you and I were talking about this at the OpenMAT. Like people will destroy, get their MCL, ACL, ACL and PCL destroyed to win a $9. gold medal. Hilarious. They'll do it, you know, they'll do that for, well, for $10,000. And people don't tap.

Like, you know, when people doing their first competition, they'll be like, you know, what do you, what do you, you know, got any advice? I'm like, yeah, the guy's not going to tap. I tell people at all time, like, oh, you know, you get the foot lock. Like people, at a high level, people aren't tap. People, they will tap, but it's rare. That someone just taps your straight ankle lock. You just break that thing.

I mean, Vinnie Magalais, what kind of injuries has he had from just let that thing? What about the kid that, um, Mikey? Oh yeah, that guy will never be the same for sure. Dude, what? Wait, Mikey, Mikey. They just kept, you know, Mike Musamechi. Yeah. He was in Japan in the one championships.

And he had this guy's leg. And he did every different variant of a heel hook and took it to the extreme. and then switch it to the other side and took it to the other side and took it to the extreme and the dude did not tap I mean his his every ligament in his legs must be completely destroyed that guy's like that robot thing now hey

yeah oh yeah the robot Jiu-Jitsu thing yeah basically him yeah that guy's legs so when you I mean a million dollars yeah there's no one that's tapping for a million dollars second place is 10,001 dollars you know like yeah I don't I don't see any of those guys tapping like this is the thing that you might have released you might think you're

going to get this cool tournament where there's like everyone's going for submission and then you find out no one's going to submit like the only move that you can get to someone is to put him asleep right because it'd be entertaining for us yeah what kind of waivers do they have to sign hopefully good ones you better get your lawyer freaking hot on that yeah quickly I think it's hilarious because there's no second place and that's what I've made a career of there's no second place price you know firstly a last for this one this is like a self-hatred thing that you're doing yeah or 10,000 dollars imagine losing 990,000 dollars in the final yeah a million dollars changes people's lives and possibly their children's lives like that's a ridiculous amount of money so

i don't yeah i look at the the brackets of the people that are going in this thing i mean nicky rod's not tapping to any no i don't think so would he tap to for his ACL to be saved not for for a million. Yeah. He just had his first kid too, so it's probably... Oh, yeah. There's zero percent chance. He's not tapping. Jewell Rocha, he's not tapping anything. Victor Hugo? No. Go down the list of these guys.

There's not going to be tapping. Hopefully, though. Otherwise, it's a fucking long day that first day. What if I win but I can't walk? Do you have replacements? Do you have guys in the wings for replacements? Or do I get a buy? What if you win your match,

but then you're too injured? Yeah. I think you're out of there But then who Does the other person get to go again? I think we probably have to bring back The guy that you beat I think it's like

Essentially that's not really winning right? Yeah if you have to go to hospital And the other guy didn't He won't See you need to make that part Of the official rules for sure Yeah Yeah

Right if you can't Because that'll actually encourage people to tap Because if they're just gonna just Have their ACL destroyed Or their shoulder destroyed and they know they can still go on and compete and possibly win yeah there's gonna be some injuries for sure yeah hopefully nothing too gruesome yeah god right on gabby will get

up for sure she ain't walking out of that if you know what I mean what's your what's your long-term plan with us I mean we would love to be able to do it every year we just wanted this first event to like just catapult the sport because like another another thing that I think they've put money in the wrong spot is Mo says he wants to grow grappling. Obviously, by ticket sales metric, he's growing grappling, but then he's put it behind a paywall. We're putting out free on YouTube.

It'll be on Facebook. It'll be on Twitter or X. It'll be on everything free. Because we want to maximize the reach of the event and have it free first to grow the sport and then obviously ultimately one day behind a paywall. But we also want to see all the metrics to see how many people actually tune in and watch

because they keep all of that. secret obviously flow fly pass doesn't make sense for them to tell the event how many viewers they get because then they'll leverage that in the negotiation process so we want it free so we see how many people really watch grappling so it's going to be on youtube streamed stream free yeah how many like camera angles are you gonna have you have a full production thing coming in yeah did you hire somebody to do that some company coming in to do that my business partner took care of the logistics things of that, yeah, but we've got a really

good crew on board for sure. You have sponsors coming in. Sponsors coming in, yes. We have, Jock Fuel's coming in. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Who else is coming in? That's a great question that I should probably know, yeah. Give them all shout out.

To everyone that's sponsoring, we don't know the name up right now, except for Jock Fuel, we know the name for that. That's even better, yeah. Yeah, you're the only one. You're the only ones to step up. And then so your long-term plan is hopefully you do this again next year? Yeah, hopefully again next year. I just really hope everything comes together.

Obviously, I hope we get a sellout so we can donate as much money to charity as possible. I hope the athletes understand the significance of the event and fight to the death and make it exciting. You know what I mean? I hope all of those things come true because then we can keep having a million dollar paydays. But like ultimately, if someone goes out there and gets four, boring decisions you know if they don't put it on the line when the audience is there to watch it's going to be hard to justify doing this every year so I really think it lies with each competitor but my thesis is that if for a million they're going to go for it yeah what bigger

incentive is there the other guys and the other event that I haven't come across think it's easy to make a million dollars just if you win ADCCC that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life meaning they think they can get sponsorships or sell videos or whatever Yeah, they think, like, that they'll win ADCC. Oftentimes, guys that win ADCC still, they're fine. They don't financially improve much at all. They're still struggling, but they sort of get sold a liar. Like, you can have a moment at ADCC that can make you famous because of the reach it has.

It's hard to convert that into cash. Yeah, unless really the fans take an interest in you and want to watch your instructionalals. But if you go out there and have four boring matches and win ADCC, you're not going to sell any instructional. Like, no one's going to buy the instruction on being a boring con. you know you got to go do something you know so yeah well if you're looking for people to try and kill each other and hurt each other and maim each other i know you're not looking for that specifically but that certainly makes for some excitement doesn't it yeah very much so and you know what

obviously i'm just kind of thinking whatever but um you know how they have like performance bonuses like i always thought because every once in a while i'll kind of think that hey if if the more is on the line. Some people, there's two kind of people. Some people, they want to freaking attack what the price is. The other kind of person will be like, well, I don't want to do anything dangerous because I don't want that million dollars to slip away, you know, so they might play more reserve because they don't want to lose. We do have 50K performance bonus. Yeah. So I feel like, yeah, when you throw in a bunch of performance, you know, knock out of the, UFC style, right? Knock out of the night, fight of the night. All these blank XYZ of the night, then you might see a flurry of all this stuff and then everything

put together what might might incentivize collectively so what so that's a legitimate worry that i'm fighting crag jones in the finals and i'm like hopefully i can just win two 10 eight 10 nine rounds by you know getting a takedown and like holding you uh that's a legitimate worry yeah it's only five minutes right i can i can i can get out to the next and i'm not saying that everyone's going to do this i'm saying there's two types of competitors in that way you know and it's so hard to predict human what humans are going to do. And like what you were saying, Craig, about the UFC fight pass thing, where everyone's just asking

questions to figure out how they can use the rules to their advantage. And that's why I think that judging is going to be really important. But I'll tell you, if someone gets, like when I train with my consistent training partners,

a lot of times we just have a rule. It's basically, it's almost like a pin rule. Like, because if I get a cross-side on you or you get cross side on me like it's gonna be a lot like I can hold you there for a long time you can hold me there for a long time it's like okay what do we get out of that round I held you across side for four minutes you know that's just not that beneficial so if I'm in CGI and I get a cross side and I want to hold on to that million

dollars and I know I kind of get this round so yeah you're gonna have to watch out for that but that's why the judges are important and I just think like guys on top shouldn't be so concerned with holding a pin. Like if you're on top of someone, you should be positioning yourself in such a way that they keep burning energy. And sometimes if you get a guy too pinned inside control and the bottom guy just chills because he can't move, he's not wasting energy. And that's why I think sometimes taking the back is not always the best option. Because you throw in your two hooks, the guy hand fights and he can rest. So it's like, I think continually passing or being close to a pass

where the guy's defending, having to defend you're forcing him to keep defending a pass. and getting exhausted is the way to cook someone over those rounds. I'm going to go out on a limb because I'm trying to think of how to avoid

how would you avoid getting me pass your guard and I hold you. I pass your guard in one minute and now I get a cross side and there's four minutes left and I'm just going to win this this round 10, 9

and that's good enough for me. Maybe like a pin could be a thing where if I hold you there for, what's it judo 30 seconds or something like that? I don't know. Sorry, I'm going off

in random directions. Yeah, that is a thing, though. Is getting past the guard and holding someone is a thing? Yeah, I think, I mean, you should always be fighting for top position. I think if the bottom guy is trying to get up or sweep, more things are going to go down. There's going to be more scrambles, more submission attempts. Everything gets better when there's an incentive to be on top. But I think it's sort of like just the ability to fatigue your opponent is the gift you get from being on top.

It's going to be wild, man. Yeah. It will be fighting. lighting to the death. I mean, I could see that sorting itself out to be that way, for sure. What are the dates of the competition? It's August 17th. Yeah, it's August 16th. So you still, I mean, ADCC 1718, we start late on Saturday and we'll be there on Friday. So you could buy tickets to both events. theoretically, watch largely most of each of the events. You could easily watch the finals of us and the finals of ADCC. Nice. So we haven't completely killed.

Yeah, and it's nice because people can go one week into Vegas and see all the best grapplers in the world. I just hope, I know we will do passouts if you come to us and you want to go back and forth throughout the day. I just hope ADCC you do that too so that if you've bought tickets to both. Say you want to watch this bracket and this match you can, because the arenas will be pretty close to each other. Yeah, what are they like of five minute walk, 10 minute walk? I think probably 10 minute drive. Oh, 10 minute drive? That's a little further than I thought.

Okay. Cool. I looked for your Craig Jones Invitational website and I didn't find it I was going to actually text Echo in the middle of the night last night

and say like dude I googled it What is it? Fuck what is it Fight Foundation? Something like that? Fightfoundation dot com or org

I should know I'm pretty sure But is that where you go for CJI? FightFoundation.com Yeah that's where all the information is obviously me flexing in here

FightFoundation.com That's where you can find information for this five foundation.com yeah oh instagram this has been largely a instagram marketing campaign yeah harassment against other people really you you do the um you can go teach a class at harvard when you're done with this about viral no what do they call it gorilla marketing that's when echo charles is kind of the carolina i understand that's what you're doing you're doing literal you could go teach you a class at harvard i mean if this thing goes well if it doesn't go like you also teach the class on what not to do but that guerrilla marketing thing is a real

thing you know because you pulled over just again for people that don't know this gorilla marketing thing you pulled over some of the champions and some of the best people from the other competition over to your competition the rutolo brothers are coming over you got just a bunch of a bunch of studs the tachit brothers are going over who else is on here we got everyone but new wave basically new wave decided to have their own tournament so unfortunately that'll be a new wave of mat ADCC. Jason Nolf. How'd you end up with Jason Nolfe?

No, obviously we want to lure in the wrestling crowd as well. But Nolfe, he's been transgenderdice for a long time. He's a freaking savage. He's tough. He's tough. So three, five minute rounds against a wrestling. We spoke to Boe Nipple. Bo Nical was talking about it.

He wanted to do the under 80, but ultimately pulled. But like, they could win. Oh, yeah. They could like. Yeah. If you have Jason Nolfe take you down and pass your guard, like that's, you're not getting up. This dude has been holding people down since he was four years old. Yeah, and I've trained with him.

I know he has good ears. So people are going to get a surprise. Like, if you're a jiu-suita guy that's heavily focused on wrestling and you draw just enough, good luck. Yeah, yeah. Good luck. You can take your little whatever, how many years? I've been really concentrating on wrestling for the last five years. The dude's like, I'm four years old and I was doing double legs in the backyard.

Just be boroughs. Yeah, you got a bunch of studs. What else, man? Does that get us up to speed? Pretty much on the tournament, yeah. What about life? You good? Pretty good, yeah

Hey, well, I guess You've been kind of mentioning a couple times You're going to go against Gabby Reese Garcia Or so Gabby Garcia Who's 10 time world champion female She's 240 pounds or something like that It's a big woman, yeah

And you guys are going to do What same roles Same rules? I think we're doing 5 by 5, 3 by 5, I don't know I don't know But we'll finish her as quick as the scheduling requires You know what I mean If we're running over

We'll take her out quick no foreplay. How did that come up? Like how did you decide to do that? With the origins of that, she can beat her flow grappling and gave some impassioned speech about how anyone that calls her out, she'll take on. And I said, that sounds like something I do. Craig Jones.

Craig Jones. Thinking outside the box over here. All right. And that was it? You're like, okay, I'm going to do that? Basically, yeah. I have a few beers on the day. Sure.

The job done. See, I'll have the sponsorship. Go a long way for that one. And then when you. announced it or approached her with it. What was she like, are you serious? Or was she like, hell yeah, or what was her response? It's swayed back and forth, I would say, over the years.

You know what I mean? But ultimately, we got pen to paper. She took a stand against 80s. Well, against the organized less than the event and decided to jump on board for this one. Oh, yeah. But yeah, she's on board fully. And what?

Are you guys going to go? When are you going to do your match with her? Like before the finals? Yeah, that would be before the final. It'll probably be, I think it'll be Fio McKenzie, then me and Gabby, and then the finals. So it'll be exciting. It's going to be a good day, dude. A couple days.

I've done no training for it. Already making your excuses, getting them logged in. That's a good one to have a rematch for, you know. Oh, that's right. Setting up the whole freaking storyline right now. Check. Anything else, man? Echko, you have any more questions?

Yeah, let's go back to the TRT steroids kind of scenario. I don't know. You kind of mentioned kind of. your stack loosely, you know. Is that pretty typical for, you know, I know, like, there's a group of competitors that are like, hell yeah, we're going all out. Yeah, I mean, most of the guys will take anything.

I mean, they're taking everything and anything to win the $10,000 in an 80-CC medals. So, like, who knows what they're taking to the million. Yeah. It's crazy. I wanted to test them not to block them or anything, but just to see, like, bragging rights. Yeah, just to see what up, man.

See what their levels were at, you know? but for me I keep it pretty low, pretty stable these days. I don't go too crazy. People have, I mean, even your training fighters won't really tell you what they're taking. So it's kind of like a mystery. But no one wants to admit to any part of it. But I at least wanted to admit to what I'm taking. So like if any of the youth see it, they at least know that you can accomplish things on a,

not a crazy, dangerous stack. You know, they don't start at the up here. Is that why you take it? mainly for like your competitive reasons or like you know for competition and stuff or is it just sort like generally speaking you know i mean these days general health you know like what i first did a cycle help you gain weight because i had qualified for ADCC in the weight division above me because my coach at the time did the one below so i was like oh fuck it will get we'll put on some muscle be in the right division because when i faced homalo in 2015 i was only 80 kilos he was 80 and then when

i qualified again for 80 i was like fuck i better at least be in the right division. So instead of like taking my diet and recovery and lifting seriously, I thought I just do have crazy stag. Gained some weight that way. And you said that you do feel it like the difference? Like I mean, honestly, yeah.

I'm just gonna feel the difference obviously. But like is it that big a deal? Like you did gain weight, obviously. That first cycle you definitely feel. Yeah. You hit it out of the gates harder. You feel it. Yeah.

After then, not so much. Just, I just know I'd feel worse without it, you know? Do you feel? Because everybody says once you go on it and then you come off it, you go worse, right? Because now your body stops making testosterone. Did you feel all that kind of effect? Yeah, the first cycle I did, I did a, I did some bodybuilding cycle. Because again, you don't know what people are taking.

You're just asking your buddies, you know, at the time you're like, what the fuck? I mean, I used to get into Tijuana, I hit a pharmacy and jab it in the quad in the bathroom. But things have come a long way since then. But when I first camp, because the old school logic was cycle on and come off. But I think it's not really that healthy for your body to be doing this. I think it would be better to be stable. So I think personally healthier to not go on and off on and off. Maybe up it a little bit if you have an important tournament.

Yeah, maybe get somebody who's like a real professional about your whole situation as well rather than the experimental scenario. What about mentally? Like, I don't know, emotionally, you know, your day-to-day. Going on and off and all that. The first time I came off, you definitely feel the other estrogen effects. You know, you feel a bit emotional. Like what? A lot of crying, you know?

No, you feel a bit down. Obviously, you feel down when you come off. I think that's why people used to say the PCT post-cycle therapy, because, like, your test crashes, but your estrogen takes a bit of time to follow it up. But, I mean, it's different for everyone, you know? Again, I know people that take their first injection, think they feel it. You're like, some of that's got to be placebo, too. But for me, mine's been stable.

for years now. So it's like it is just the baseline for me. The only side effect would be probably shooting blanks. But that could be good too, you know? That is male birth control. At least that's what I tell them. And did you lift it all when you were trying to get bigger? Or did you just go?

I lift it. Yeah. I lift, but it's just, I did lift. When I had a more stable lifestyle, now I barely even have a house. I just travel full time. That makes it hard, you know? It goes a long way if there's a squat rack in a hotel, but there rarely is. And if that is out of the hotel, that's too big obstacle for me to go find. So I'll just do whatever's in the hotel.

So you're not really lifting very much? No. If I have the energy I'll do it, though, you know, they'll have to feel motivated. It's hard to get the motivation up. Plus, I want Gabby to look a lot bigger than me. Oh, yeah. That'll be good. I don't want to come in looking more stack than her.

That kind of kills the pillow the match. I've been cooling her up and like take more Anavov I can take more steroids Yeah That's a good point Right on Well you're good

Well you know In the spirit Of not wasting too much Of Craig Jones time Yeah It is great to To see you again I saw you briefly

Back in back in the day Oh back there was weird I heard that you trained At Victory Back in the day But I didn't know If you were there For like six months

Or like six hours Yeah I think it's A week maybe So then today When you told me You're there for a week I was like, cool, because I kind of felt bad, like, I didn't really remember you being there, probably because I was out of town or something.

That was before the cycle, so you really thought it didn't see me. Yeah, yeah, you look different. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Does that get to some speed? We're good? I reckon, yeah.

Right on. People can find you. You got B-Team J-J-J-J-J-G-T-J-G-T-G-T-Gee-J-GT-GT-G.com. FightFoundation. Which is where all the information about this massive, life-changing, game-changing events is going to be. You're on. Instagram, Craig Jones, BJJ. You also have at CJA official.

This is where, and your, your Instagram is quite entertaining. That's the go. Yeah, that's the money maker. So get in there to that. You also have a YouTube channel, B Team Jiu Jitsu. B Team Jitsu, yeah. And you post a bunch of wild stuff in there.

I just watched the thing about the Rutolo brothers. And that was awesome to watch. Those guys are, I've known those guys since they were little kids. And it's so cool to see them growing. up and getting after and doing what they're doing. And that's some places where you can find it. Is it going to be YouTube streamed on that channel, you think? Yeah, yeah.

Just because it's easier because it's already pretty diverse audience. And you're there. You're in there. And we still subscribe us, you know. Yeah, there you go. You can double dip on those guys. Awesome, man. Well, I appreciate you swinging by.

Thanks for coming by to train this morning. And thanks for taking care of the J-Jitsu competitors. And getting more jujutsu out to the world, man. Appreciate it. Thank you guys. Right on, brother. And with that, Craig Jones has left the building. Training.

Training. Did you roll with Craig Jones today? I did not roll with Craig Jones today. Some good roles this morning. Yeah. Some good open mat activities. I feel like this, and maybe you mentioned it. Who mentioned it?

You maybe Carrie, I forget that Craig Jones, he rolled up. And, you know, okay, so there's different. vibes. There's different goals. There's different there's different approaches you can take for any any given day of training. And today was the day that Craig Jones and a couple other people were like hey look this is not a crazy training day. I know it's Sunday open mat but bro I'm going to get a round. I get two rounds maybe three

and then we're going to go ahead and keep it pushing. Some people were like that. That's me sometimes. You know we were driving home myself and my daughters and Rana today. Yeah, today after we all got done

training. And, you know, because it's common, common issue, right? Before training, do you always feel like going to train?

No. You don't always feel like going to train. So one of my daughters did not feel like going to train this morning, but, you know, hey, that's what we're doing.

Fam Jitsu. Fam Jitsu. All day. Hell you. And so as we're driving home, my one daughter said to my other daughter, but don't you feel good now that you trained? You know what my other daughter said?

Yeah. 100%. Oh, yeah. So I always going to feel better when you train. I had that exact same, or not that exact same, but very similar conversation with Wes, our guy, Wes, where, you know, he's talking about, you know, like, you know, the different levels.

Like some people, they want to be the competitor. Sometimes you want to just be a hobbyist. Sometimes you just want Jiu-Jitsu to be a general just part of your life. You're not in there trying to compete with every single person, every single minute of every single round. And sometimes, it changes sometimes you want to be a competitor and then after a while you're like wait a second maybe I have a family now whatever and then now you're a hobbyist you know kind of thing there's a dynamic

to people's jiu jitsu pursuits and I'm like and that's what we talked about right during that time where it's like hey sometimes bro you're not always fired up to just go train jiu jitsu sometimes you're like you know what I've I should go because when I'm done I'll be very happy that I went and that's literally the case every single time 100% of time even the days that I got injured I'm happy I went What about with the variations between different people? Because the reason I bring this up is Kerry was filming today. Sure. He's filmed.

Yeah. And, you know, he's like, I got some footage. And I was like, oh, cool. He goes, dude, whenever you, like, as soon as you shake hands with Sloan, like, I just hit record. Yeah. It's on. Yeah, it's on. Not that I'm, you know, the level of Sloan, but, like, we just kind of go hard.

Oh, yeah, fully. and then yeah and then some people some days they're like all you know like hard training and then sometimes hey it's more like a mellow training even though it's unstated you don't say you're not saying hey i'm training mellow today no you just train mellow and then you're one of those guys who's real good at matching the other guy's energy you know and yeah that's a fully that's a real thing and you can go like today was one guy you're rolling with is just a cruise roll on purpose and then the next roll is all out death match so yeah that's all out death match so yeah That's real too. That's part of the gig.

Dude, this, this C.J.I. is going to be very, it is literally an unknown. We're going into the world of the unknown. Because when you put a million dollars on the line, a million dollars on the line, these guys are going to go. And there's the competition sick, dude. There's freaking sick.

So there's another element to it, which is cool given Craig Jones's, one of his goals, is to get more eyeballs on Jiu-Jitsu because it's when you think about it's interesting what people will watch if there's a million dollars on the line they don't even have to be into it good point because Mr. Beast you know the YouTube guy yeah yeah dude he people will watch because there's a million dollars on the line yeah how long can you stay on this circle or put your finger on this telephone pole or whatever he's doing oh yeah million people will watch that oh yeah more than

one million people will watch oh yeah more than that yeah and and Yeah, so why is it? Because they like to see how long someone can stand in a circle. No, like no one cares about how long, a random person can stand a circle. How long can you, like no one cares. Put a million dollars on there. Now we all of a sudden care. And we actually kind of care a lot.

I'll watch it. Yeah. And now you take that and you say, hey, we're going to give one million dollars to the person here that can survive an onslaught of other people trying to break their limbs or choke them unconscious. Yeah. I think I think chokes are going to have to be a thing because I don't think people are tapping, dude. I really don't think people are tapping. Yeah. Because, dude, like I said, people don't tap in the training room.

Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm not saying everybody, but there's times where people get hurt in the training room because they did not tap. Yeah. That happens all the time. Yeah. So now you put them in competition. Now they're definitely not tapping.

Right. But now you put a million dollars on the line. Maybe I'm just a little bit obsessed with that idea right now, but I think it's going to change some, I think there's some unknown, it's an unknown element that we're getting into. Yeah, you can kind of imagine a lot of stuff, actually, when you really think about it,

where I mean, you know how you guys, you mentioned, like, what if you can't continue or whatever? I think, or it stands the reason that if I, like, pop my elbow because they didn't tap to an arm bar or whatever, but I won the match, bro, I'm showing up for that next match, 100%. I'll try not to use it. this arm and bro if I lose I lose better than not

Brad the million dollars still there I think everyone's showing up oh yeah and no one going to the hospital yeah guys limping out on the mat yeah guys will be limping out on the mat guys are gonna be crawl there might there might I predict there's a decent chance that someone is on their you know on their haunches dragging themselves onto the mat yeah just trying to get I predict that because there's a million dollars and you know what you can train with an injury and still get a sub. You know what I mean?

You can happen. And why would you not take that chance? Yeah, fully. So this is the element, there isn't a huge element of the unknown here of what's going to go down. I think chokes are going to be popular. Yeah.

Chokes are going to be very popular. Yeah. Especially the first one. Like no one knows the gaming, you know, like, brother, they're just going out. Like, bro, remember Meta Moris? The first Meta Morris had a lot,

had a lot of submissions. Because no one was like, they didn't know. They're just like, frick, we just better go out there. You know, they didn't have any kind of game plan as much, you know? When you think 30, because weren't those rounds 30 minutes, 20 minutes?

20 minutes seems like a long time. Yeah, no points. Yeah, until you go, oh, you know what? If I just can make it through 20 minutes, and you, that, even though that can be a long time, it can also not be that longer with time. Yeah, fully. And if you're surviving, especially if you're like the massive underdog, you just survive, you're like, you know, like, but no one figured that out until like later because

this is the, you know, the first one, you know? So, yeah. Oh, yeah, very interesting. Jason Nolf will be interesting to watch three time NCAA champ because he's, And he trained jih Tijuana, too, but yeah, that's going to be an interesting one. There's so many good guys in there. So many good guys in there. It'll be interesting.

I'm looking forward to it. We training. We are training. You're going to need some fuel. Yes. Craig Jones is on a different kind of fuel. It's been interesting. You know, he's been open about his steroid use.

Yeah. And he was talking about it today. But I don't recommend that kind of stuff. I know that there's some level of it that people can do, but I don't recommend it. Hey, I guess if you're going to a doctor and you have some issues, you need to get through those. But there's some other kind of fuel you can use.

I recommend you at least start with the other kind of fuel. Yeah, let's just say you and all, look, I'll put myself in the same boat. We're not in any position to make those types of recommendations at this point. But we can recommend Jocco fuel. 100%. 100%. Yeah, my experience, by knowledge, the whole thing, performance, the whole deal. Yeah. By the way, Jonco Fuel is official sponsor of the Craig Jones Invitational.

So, you know, we'll be up there. We'll be getting after it. Be hanging out and watching some. I think we're going to watch people get choked to sleep because you're no way you're tapping to a choke. That's a zero percent chance. There's not another prediction. No one's tapping to a choke. You can put me to sleep and I'll fight it until I'm unconscious. Yeah. Period. End of story. Yeah.

I feel like that. You've been choked out before, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You don't, you don't like at a certain point, it's just happening. Yeah. And you're too late.

Then again, of course, everyone's different. But I'm trying to think, okay, and consider this for yourself as well. When have you been choked out unconscious? Under what circumstance? Because there, I care. I don't think. And I don't think I would even do this where I'm just like, you know what? I'm not going to give you the satisfaction of a tap and then let myself go out.

And I've never done that. But I have never done that. But I have. been trying to get out of a choke like a freaking darts choke like literally trying to get out of there and then yeah just waking up all of a sudden or like a triangle or something I remember I was in a triangle and it was like I feel it but it doesn't feel super tight and then I just woke up you know it's like that it's like I didn't know better you know or if another one where the round was about to end and then I was like oh I'm not going to give him the satisfy I'm to beat the bell or whatever and then yeah I got choked up stone had me in a choke today and I looked at the close and I looked at the clock seven seconds left and I was like oh there's I can hold my breath for seven seconds which I'm about to do and I held my breath for seven seconds and then do you know how the the clock was my phone today yeah and it was like ping yeah it's all quiet the round ended and I didn't know how much you know and so he got me and I looked at the clock it was like already into the

red oh yeah yeah you guys just didn't stop Yeah, well, yeah, we didn't stop until I tapped. Yeah, I looked at the clock and I go, bro, you're not a time, you know. Yeah, didn't count. Doesn't count. Yeah. It counted though. Bro.

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Shields. And a bunch of small gyms. We got Jackson and Jared out there on the road. They're getting after it. They're like showing up. Talk about a rogue jiu-jitsu scenario.

Just showing up in schools. Hey, do you guys want to sell Jocco Fuel? Cool. Can I train? And that's what those guys are doing. Oh, Yeah, like jujitsu schools.

Yeah, yeah, jih Tzu schools. Yeah. So if those guys show up at your school, get yourself some Jock Fuel in your academy and your CrossFit gym and your gym and your powerlifting gym. If you want that, email J.Fsails at jocco.com.

Jafelfuel.com. J.Fs.com. Jafsatowifil.com. And we'll see you at the C.J.I. Invitational. You coming? Yes, sir. 100%. 100%.

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Anyway, it's called the shirt locker. News 9 every month. It's on jocco store.com. There you go. Also, check out ColoradoCraftbeef.com or primalbeef.com to get yourself some steak or some ground beef or even some hot dogs. Some beef hot dogs. That's a hell of good, by the way.

So check those out. You need steak in your life. Make you stronger. Make you better. Make you faster. Make you smarter. Primalbeef.com, Coloradocraftbeef.com. beef from awesome people awesome companies subscribe to the podcast also check out jocco

underground also check out our YouTube also check out psychological warfare also check out flip-side canvas Dakota Meyer making cool stuff to hang on your wall I've written a bunch of books so you can check those out as well you can get them wherever you get books the warrior kid books the way of the warrior kids series so you can help your kids or your neighbors or your nephew or your your your your sisters, neighbors, kids. Get these books for those kids. It's like $12.

You know what I mean? And you change the trajectory of their lives. So check those out. Also, Mikey and the Dragons, also about face by Hackworth, Extreme Ownership, dichotomy leadership. You guys know the gig.

Speaking of which, speaking of leadership, we have a leadership consultancy. It's called Eschalonfront. We solve problems through leadership. Go to ashtonfront.com. If you have problems inside your organization, and you need help with those problems.

Those problems are leadership problems, and we will help you solve those problems through leadership. Also, we have online training. Talked about that today. We talked about some of the online training, whether it's BJJ Fanatics.com. It's an online training platform for Jiu-Jitsu, and guys have gotten excessively good,

extraordinarily good from online training. there's a bunch of other things like that for jiu jitsu it's kind of interesting right if you think you can learn jiu jitsu from watching videos and you can get exceptional from watching videos jiu jitsu is a physical skill well we have a mental skill of leadership and just like you train jih Tutsu for moves you need to train leadership to learn the techniques learn the strategies learn the strategies, learn the moves of leadership. And if you want that online training, go to Extreme Ownership.com and check out some of those courses. Also, if you want to help service members active and retired, you want to help

their families, you want to help Gold Star families. Check out Mark Lee's mom, Mama Lee. She's got an amazing charity organization that helps our veterans heal. If you want to donate or you want to get involved, go to America's Mighty Warriors.org. Also check out Heroes and Horses.org. Mike of Fink got people up in the damn forest, mountains, hunting animals with a whittled down piece of stick, killing bears, getting after it, and killing their demons as well.

And that's what it's all about. Also, Jimmy May's organization, beyond the brotherhood.org. So that's what we're doing. If you want to connect with us, once again, on the interwebs, beatimjj.com. Check out FightFoundation.com if you are interested in that C.J.I activity on Instagram.

If you want to talk to or interact with Craig Jones, he's got a lot of funny stuff on there. Craig Jones, BJJ on Instagram, CJI official on Instagram, YouTube, B-Team Jiu-Jitsu. As for us, I'm at jocco.com. I'm also on social media. I'm at Jocko Willink. Echo's at Echo Charles. Just be careful because you should be trained. or lifting or writing or reading instead of scrolling.

But if you need to check in on us, that's where we're at. Also, once again, thanks to Craig Jones for joining us. Appreciate it. Thanks for coming by for the rolls this morning. Good times. And thanks for spreading the word of jiu-jitsu. And we get to train jihitsu and we get to go to competitions and we get to enjoy the sport. We get to enjoy life and freedom because the folks out there in uniform around the world

who protect our way of life. So thanks to all of you. Also, thanks to our police, law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service, as well as all other first responders. I hope you all are training jih Tijuana as well because it will help you protect yourselves and help you protect us. So thank you for what you do and go train jih Tijuana. And everyone else out there, same thing.

If you're not training jiu jitsu, give it a shot. Go down to a local Jiu-Jitsu Academy. Walk on in there. Tell me you'd like to train. Your life will get better. And if you do train, then you know what to do. Keep getting after it. And that's all we've got for tonight.

Until next time, this is Echo and Jocko. Out.