Jocko Podcast - 461: A Reflection On Growing Up With Jocko as A Father. w Rana Willink

Episode Date: October 23, 2024

>Join Jocko Underground<Rana Willink is the daughter of Jocko Willink. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu competitor and Instructor. Rana talks about growing up with Jocko as a father, fitness, Jiu Jitsu, and life.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

This is Jocko podcast number 461 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening. It was a good test. It was a good way to figure out who really had the will to win. And I'd already put them through some paces in the morning with standard sprints and jumps and push-ups and buddy carries and made him hit the surf and get wet and run a little bit more and all that kind of stuff. to me. I had tested them with some complicated instructions in various physical and mental tasks that required leadership and memory and attention and detail, this kind of stuff, right? And so then as I'm really trying to parse out who wanted victory, I came up with another test.

And this wasn't a complicated test. I told them what they had to do was swim across the river, and this river's down by the ocean, swim across the river, go get the biggest possible rock that they could carry, and then swim back and whoever could put their rock at my feet, whichever rock was the biggest would win. And I figured it was a good test of more than strength. I wasn't really thinking about that or endurance. I wasn't really thinking about that. I was thinking a good ability to adapt because if you're going to carry a rock in one hand, you're going to have to adjust your swimming technique and whoever could adapt and keep up their speed. And whoever could adapt and keep up their speed on their swimming

would be able to win. So I gave them the starting command, which is standby, bust them. And off they ran and they all sprinted into the water, you know, ankle deep and then waist deep and then chest deep and then because, you know, the river gets deeper.

And then it got to the deep part. And so then they all start swimming across. I don't know how far it was. Maybe the width of the river's 35 yards or something like that. It's probably about 20 yards in the middle that's two, you know, that's above six feet deep. And so I'm watching and they get across the river and they're wading out the other side and they come up on the other side. And I was watching them and they were all kind of picking up, but they're rocks and heading back towards the water like a tennis ball size rock or maybe a baseball size rock or maybe a softball size rock.

and then they're all heading back into the water. But there was one individual who was looking around and picked up a big, a big giant monster rock. Had to lift it like sumo style deadlift. You know what I'm saying? Like a strongman competition style. It took two hands and kind of wrapped around and picked it up. But it was certainly too big to be carried with only one hand. And definitely you could not swim with this thing.

So I thought to myself there's going to be some lessons learned for this individual. Maybe not the sharpest tool in the shed. But I watched and I see that competitor, right? And I see a look of determination as they walk back toward the river deeper and, you know, ankles and then knees and then waist and then chest. thinking I'm getting a little curious you know you start paying attention you see someone that's doing something totally different and I I'm a I'm a waterman right I know that it is not possible to swim with this rock it is not especially because

you can't use your hands yeah maybe if you could tie it on to yourself you could tread water for a moment but even that I don't think you could actually do it so I didn't really think that this competitor was gonna be able to pull this off seemed like the like I said the bad judgment was gonna come to play and They'd get to learn a lesson, but they kept walking. Shoulder deep, the neck deep, and then chin deep, and then submerged. And I saw, like, the crown of the head, the scalp just disappear underwater, being weighed down by the rock. And some time went by.

And you could see, like, little bubbles, like a little trail. And as the time passed, I thought, well, they're going to be running out of breath soon. And right around that time, right as I started to get a little bit concerned, suddenly a face broke the surface of the water momentarily and grabbed a big freaking gasping breath of air and then went back under. And it was real obvious that they had pushed themselves off the river bed and grabbed the breath and then sank back down and kept walking. and then that happened again, another desperate but determined face breaching the surface and stealing a breath and then disappearing into the depths once again. And but they were making progress. And after maybe the fourth one, it seemed, okay, they're going to pull this off.

And it was a long slog. But, you know, they drove on and this individual didn't really seem to care too much about the pain and the discomfort. and they moved closer and closer and finally their head came out of the water and by this time many of the other competitors had made it to me because they were kind of swimming and they'd place their I'll say their humble rocks at my feet

you know the little apple-sized rock maybe maybe the biggest about a grapefruit size maybe two three pounds and then came the determined human lumbering out of the water with a 60 or 70 pound rock

A colossal stone cradled in her arms Like a big Mass of depleted uranium She came over to me, dropped the boulder at my feet And looked at me And smiled

Because she knew she had won And we both knew that it wasn't even close And so I called the attention Of the other competitors probably about I don't know maybe 15 girls between the ages of 7 and 10 all from all

family friends of or friends of my family that we were all camping at the beach and I told them that the winner by a long shot was Ranah Willink my daughter and she smiled and I smiled to I think she was probably 7 or 8 years old

at this time and this was one of the very one of the first and most profound indicators of her level of determination in life and she continued on that path of determination pushing herself getting better and she's always done that with a smile on her face and it's an honor to have here here with us tonight to share some stories of life her life her struggles her lessons and hopefully allow me to share some of mine as well Rana Willink.

Thanks for joining us. Hello. Thanks for having me. You are a tough little kid in the river. How come you wanted to win so bad? No clue. I just did. Do you remember that pretty clearly?

Yeah, I remember it. Yeah. My dad used to make us do all these like evolutions at San Alejo, a place where we camped with a bunch of family friends. and made us carry like our little mini blow-up boat on our heads and go down to the river. It was fun. It is fun. Let's go back before that. What is the first thing that you remember of life?

First thing I remember from life. I don't know. Like, I remember elementary school a lot growing up in. Ocean Beach and with my two other siblings at the time and I'm going to elementary school being like super know it all and annoying in like grades one through four like if I got a if I got a question wrong on the multiplication test I would cry like I was such I just wanted do you remember your shy face do you remember that um yeah I do definitely because when you were really little you were really extremely shy.

And so when anyone would come over to talk to any of our family, you would hide behind mom's legs. You'd hide because you were super shy. I don't know if this had anything to do with it, but at one point, your older sister cut your hair, you know, kind of off. She cut all my hair off. She cut your hair kind of off. And, you know, you have long hair.

and then I don't know where your mom and my wife, I don't know where she was, but your sister Freya got out scissors and decided to style your hair and so you just kind of cut it off. Well, yeah, and I would do anything she told me to do because it was my older sister. Uh-huh.

So she said, we're cutting your hair. I was like, all right. Guess we're doing it. You, the other thing that's interesting, I remember there was a, we had, there was some kind of party at the SEAL team and um one my my platoon chief at the time who's a great friend of mine who I had known since I was as team one back in the day and he he he was married and he

had one kid and his and he showed up at this party and his daughter was like the cutest little thing and her hair was braided and there was ribbons in her hair I think they were like white and pink ribbons in her hair and they matched her skirt and her skirt matched her shoes and she just was as cute as a button and then we pull up and it our family our children look like feral animals like no first of all my son didn't wear shoes he rarely ever wore a shirt and he just wore swim trunks and these are like navy exchange swim trunks or or uh target swim trunks you know just that was what he would wear uh my my oldest daughter would wear a ballerina what is it called a tutu yeah she'd wear a pink two two like this is

just what she's wearing that stuff and then you would wear a a leotard um all the time and the thing is everyone's like all these pieces of clothing were grimy like dirty so nasty so nasty. It wasn't even my wife would wash them but they were just stained and it was like I think I think the attitude for my wife was instead of being like no you have to like put this on no you need to no you look she was okay if that's what you want to wear cool whatever I got three freaking kids below the ages of six yeah like I'm over it you know where whatever you wear whatever you want and so yeah you kids definitely grew and it was pretty wild scene but that was first time I was like oh if you saw my family from if you didn't know anything you'd be like these people fell in some hard times bro you know what I'm saying so so that's kind of the early the early kids now you mentioned camping up at San Alejo that's something that we did every summer for between a week and two weeks which is awesome yeah and a lot of times I don't know if you remember this I would have to work yeah

Yeah, so I would just go to work because it's an extra, whatever, half an hour to get to work. But the funny thing is, Echo Charles, is this campsite, like, if you think you're, quote, going on vacation, you might think you go somewhere that's far away. No, dude, this is 20 minutes from our house. But everyone would go and it would just be chaos and awesomeness for a week to two weeks. sun everyone would just get annihilation sunburns chafing

chafing everywhere from just all day in the water you know feet would be annihilated and but it was cool it was awesome

did you enjoy Santa Lejo yeah I feel like when we were coming up with things to talk about that's like the most that's like the place where I have the most memories

like as a whole family because everything was just like everything was just like everything was so chaotic at our house that it was a place where we all went and we all just had to be there. There was no like ballet lessons to go to and no gymnastics. None of that. So and I don't really remember you leaving to work.

I think we were probably just down at the beach the entire time you were working. But yeah, I don't. I feel like all of my good memories with like my childhood friends and the fam was all there. Yeah. We did tent camping and then we graduated. to a pop-up trailer. You know what that is, Echo? It's like the one that looks flat

and then you unlatch it all and it kind of pops out. Yeah, yeah. And then eventually, God bless, we got the lazy days, which was a real RV, a classic RV. And it was funny because,

I don't know, I think I paid like, like, I don't know, $8,300 for it. You know what I'm saying? But it was fire. Oh, yeah. It was so cool. So wait,

So when you're talking tents, right, the initial offering, were they like the big tent, you know, like the size of this room kind of tent or like each individual tent? Individuals. Maybe you have like a family tent that holds four or something. Yeah, but it's four like everybody next to each other. Yeah. Yeah. But like my wife and I would sleep in one big one and the kids would.

And my son would actually just sleep in like on the dirt. Yeah. Or yeah. Or on a chair. Like we'd find. him and his buddy and just. Oh yeah, knocked out. Yeah, just knocked out on the campfire.

Around the campfire. Yeah, it was. But this is something, a piece of advice that I've given people now is if you can pull your kid out of school, do it. Like if you have an opportunity, you've got some, you know, at work,

you're going to such and such a place or you get some thing, some opportunity to pull your kid out of school and take them to do something, do it like 100% do it and do it as much as you can I mostly did that with my son just because I don't know I guess because he's a boy and he surfed and he was more interested in other things

but I wish I would have done it more with you guys too because that's just way better it's just way you used to have more memories than you will get from your desk at school yeah it feels like also I mean obviously depends on what you guys going to do You don't pull them out of school to go watch TV or something like that. But yeah, right, see what you're saying.

But it gives them like reps in the real world too, you know, little experience. But it's like it's not just, ooh, it's a fun experience. It's like you get playing time in the real world rather than in the classroom. You see what I'm saying? So it feels like, yeah, that would be very beneficial. Get that playing time. Yeah, man. It's true.

All right. So you meant, you know, I started off talking about these like competitions and stuff. and there was a lot of there's a lot of fun competitions to be had like how how long who can hold their head in the ice chest

like you know a cooler filled with ice who can hold their head in there the longest wait Hannah did so these competitions or you know all these different evolutions or did he participate or was it he was a coach he was a ref or whatever

the commander he just came up and the ideas. You guys do it. But I feel like every, like I don't remember much not being like a competition. Yeah. So no like fun like leisure activities. It was just more like, all right.

Let's see who comes out on top today. Yeah. All right. Good tip. Like who can hang on this pullet bar the longest. Oh yeah. Even things like, and you've seen me do this echo Charles. Even things like talent shows.

Yeah. Because you know they would put on like a talent show or something. Yeah. And I would just judge. Yeah. Like fully judge. Yeah, yeah. Like actually.

Not even like fun. Fun judge. Everyone wins. Not an everyone wins sort of situation. Yeah, I know. It was the winner got like an ice cream from the camp store or whatever. Or just got like love from your father. Do you remember when your kids were having a jumping in the water diving contest?

I remember very much. I got to witness this, you know, scenario at my house. Yeah, there. like a, I don't know, was it dive, cannonball? It was like anything into the, into the water. Some kind of jump off the platform thing. Yeah. And I saw your, your method right away.

I was like, oh, I see what he's doing. Okay, okay, you know. And it's, the cool thing is they get into it. Oh, yeah, it works. It takes hold for sure. And even there's no prize of any kind in that case. Actually, Rana's right. You're probably more right than you realize.

Love from your father. So if it's like, if Jocco's over here blowing up the set with his presence, you know, his voice is all loud, all the kids. you're like, who's that guy? And then he's giving tips and saying, that's really good. I'll let you explain the method. But, you know, when he's like implementing his method, bro, that's really what you're striving for.

For real. Yeah. I just want approval from this guy, you know? Which actually, I did learn something from that. Where's the takeaway? Well, tell your method first. Then I'll say the takeaway. Basically, the method is to give them really, like, distinct feedback.

So like when your kids and it was a whole bunch of kids. I don't know. It was probably 10 kids. But let's say Freddie gets up and Freddie like walks to the end of the diving board and he jumps off. And these kids are like six. I mean he's just jumping off like a wild man. But I'd say all right Freddie. Hey listen overall not bad technique a little bit marginal because your hands were flapping all over the place. But most important your attitude as you walked up, you didn't look like you were having a good time. No one wants to see you not having a good time. So because of that I'm docking you down to a 2.9. Try again. Yeah. And the next time Freddie would go, his hands would be controlled at his side and he have a big smile on his face and he would get, all right, there we go, 4.2. Improvement. Yeah. So there's the method.

What did you work? Do you remember this method? Like, does that ring a bell? It's like, oh, that makes sense because he did that? Yeah. It wasn't just like, oh, good job. Because then you're like, oh, they're not really watching and they don't really care. Okay.

But when it's, well, it feels like maybe just a good job would be like, okay. We're just doing a dumb, like, diving contest. But then it's like, when the judge is serious, you're like, oh, shit. I got to get serious now, you know? But like, we can't even play card games in our family. That's like, we've tried to play multiple, like, card games, spoons, all this. Bro, it just gets so chaotic. And we even, my dad came up with this thing during the game where it's not just like you're out.

It's like you're getting ejected. Oh, yeah. You're getting ejected from the game. If you're out from the game, Echo, I would go, echo. Charles and everyone could put their hand up and then and then retract their hand back and go echo Charles E jacked and like that feeling was horrible so not that not that you were kicking them out it was like a legitimate part of the game yeah so you know a game like uh uh musical chairs yeah yeah so if you didn't get it you didn't get your chair it wouldn't just be like go to the side yeah it would be like

echo charles and everyone would go Eject. Yeah. So it's like this hostile spectacle. And there's games like spoons is like that. We have a lot of games that narrow the playing field. The symbol game that narrow the playing field and narrow the playing field and narrow the playing field. A lot of games like that.

But we did it to my younger sister. We like ejected her and she was like bawling her eyes out. I don't think we played since honestly. Well, your younger sister. My mom got so mad at us. Yeah. Yeah. But it's all.

Well, there's a. The other end of the spectrum is, Helen is so nice that she wouldn't, you know, she couldn't even bring herself to say eject. Even though she was playing the game and you're authorized to eject someone and verbally communicate that with the group

and ostracize that person, you know, we'd all do it. Then she'd be like, it's okay, sweetie. Like, as we're ejected, Echo Charles. She'd be like, it's okay, Echo. You did great. No one believed her. Like, not even the person that got ejected

Didn't even know. Yeah, that makes sense. But, but doesn't surprise me that kind of stuff. And there's a lot of, I think there's like a lot of value in these things. Like, look, does Jocka go too hard sometimes? Maybe. But like, especially that, um, the judging the diving contest. So the takeaway was, you're right, Rana, where if you're just like, hey, good job to everyone, usually their kids, right?

You want to, you don't want to freaking insult them, especially in front of everyone or nothing like that, right? But there's this, if you kind of can construct this method, which talk apparently did, it's even more effective than a good job. You know, so it's like, A, you're engaged. So you engage. Like I notice every detail of your jump. So they feel special like, oh, he cares, you know, kind of a thing. That's A, boom, they're signed on already.

Once when you're like, hey, I like how you did this, but then you, then you give them praise, but not too much praise. You don't get the 100% praise. You give them like the 85% praise. and then you address the remaining 15%. Now they got motivation and admission. So what I'm saying? And he's engaged and Jocco's going to be there the whole time with me, you know,

like evaluating whatever. Bro, you see these kids' freaking face light up. Can't wait to get back on that freaking wall. And you know what else is an important lesson about that? Is if your kid jumps off the thing and you go, hey, that was great. And it wasn't great? The message is, whether it's great or not,

the message is you've achieved it. If you say, hey, that was good, but here are some things. The message is, I believe in you and you can do better. Yeah. You can do better. And who doesn't want to do better, right? I don't know. And, you know, occasionally you'd get someone that, you know, was really struggling with some particular thing.

And it's not like I'd be like, oh, right. You know, I would tactically kind of support that individual. I wouldn't go too hard in the paint. If there was a kid that was maybe a little bit uncorably. coordinated on some particular evolution. You know, I might not pick them for the team, but I'm just kidding, bro. No, the thing is even when you're explaining it, like I'm thinking, hey, I'm kind of mentally taking notes. Like, okay, how am I going to implement this?

But I got to bring my version. I can't bring your version. I bring my version. That's what I'm saying. And I'm remembering that ever since then, that's what I would do. Because that's a common game right there, who can do the best cannonball, who can do the best dive or whatever. That's how. Yeah, but it's also like, yeah, who can do the best anything.

Anything. Yeah, yeah. So I implement every single time If I got the opportunity, boom, that That's what we're doing. That concept is in there. Oh yeah, 100%. But I do add my like certain flare like if someone does it.

Like if they do one that's like not up to par, I'd be like, hey, that's the worst one ever seen in my life. Oh, dang. But it adds, they know I'm joking, you know, whatever. But it's like it adds a little bit of fun. They're all troubled. But yes. But yeah, every single time.

I used to like roast the kids too. Not just the kids. I'd roast everybody around the campfire. Completely. With a guitar. So I would like sing songs. Makes sense to me completely. About each individual kid.

And like, and they were all, they were kind of, a lot of times based around scatological humor. Do you know what that is? Do you know what that is, Rana? No.

It's like the nice way of saying really immature jokes about like, poo. Oh, right. So I, you know, it would be like this kid farted, you know, And it was just, you know, the little kids,

they think that's the craziest thing they've ever heard in their lives. Like, ah, amazing. But that was, that was good. But, you know, the thing is, you know, I mentioned that, like, my wife sort of like, let the kids kind of wear what they wanted to wear. We weren't real super strict on all these little items, you know.

I think a lot of times when I talk to people about their kids, I always, I think they're always surprised that I was very, law's a fair you know like war for in the parlance of our times it's more chill you know and we even tried it when you guys were little like one Christmas we asked the kids we you know go to bed because Santa's gonna come and if you're awake when Santa shows up dude he's leaving and they will they then they somehow convinced us that whenever they woke up we're going Like we want to open presents right then. So they woke up at 1 o'clock in the morning.

And so we all got up at 1 o'clock in the morning. And we opened all the presents. And then it was just kind of ruined everything. We didn't implement a rule there, which was like not, don't get out of your room until 7 o'clock in the morning. And we do order for opening presents. It's not everyone opens at once. Oh, like take turn.

It's old or it's youngest to oldest. Youngest to oldest. Just one person at a time. Oh, yeah, rounds. Yeah. Yeah. Do you guys do? What do you do?

Free for all? It's not, yeah, free for, I mean, I remembered, yeah, one at a time. It's not strict though. But it's, yeah, one at a time. You know, we want to see, what is it? Whatever for the thing, but no, it's not in order. For the free for all for us, it was done in two minutes. It's like 1.02 a.m.

And we're like, oh, all right. That was a bummer. The funny thing about that is, like, we didn't have much money, you know, at all. And so a lot of the, when I would buy something, I would save the box. So for instance,

when I would get a computer, I'd save the box for three years, four years. And then just, when Christmas time we'd roll around, package that bad boy back up. You know zero wise the computer? Here you go.

Wait, another, that same computer or put something else in the box? Same. The one that was his. So if I got a new computer every three or four years, years. Oh, you get the old one. I got it. I got his old computer multiple times. Yeah. Actually, that's not bad. That's not bad at all. Yeah. Yeah. I would try and I honestly didn't even know. I thought it was new. Sweet. I was stoked. I was like, dang, all right. I got a new

computer. We're doing good. Yeah, we're stoked on that one. Um, the other thing that's that I remember about you being a kid is you are freaking strong as a child. Yeah. Like, not normal. You are not normally strong. That's what he always says. Like, I have multiple memories on different occasions of my dad making his friends pick me up. And just realizing how dense I am, so to speak.

And there were like a couple words he'd use, but dense, heavy. These aren't the best words. So, I mean. This is, this is a lesson. So I said I was going to go over some lessons aren't for me. This is a good lesson for me because in my mind, I was literally as stoked as I could possibly be. Because you know how different people have different strengths, right? So you know when you train with someone in jiu-jitsu.

I don't with girls, with training with girls is a lot different. You don't run, you don't have as much of a regular occurrence of this type of human. but people that are just, they're built different. And you're like, okay, this dude's freaking so heavy, so strong, super dense. And usually it's a type of person that has explosive muscle tissue. So like, what's that? Is that type 2 tissue? We'll say, yeah.

Like Twitch or something? Yeah, fast Twitch, the fast twitch muscle, right? Those people are usually, they feel denser, stronger, and they're heavier for their size. And so you, again, it's a lot more rare, in my opinion, that a girl has that. And it was so obvious when you were little because you were heavy. I know. You told me. Yeah, I know.

And the thing is, in my mind, that was like a huge compliment. And my sister is like. And your sister is normal. Well, she was like smaller. Like she was a ballerina, my older sister. And he would say she's like a bird. She's like a bird. He would have his two friends pick us up or whatever.

Like, oh my God, isn't she like a bird and isn't running us so dense, so heavy? I was like, great. That's how stupid I am. Yeah. I didn't even realize that that was a thing. You know what I mean? And the thing that I'm talking about is girls are constantly being looked at and judged on what they look like. Whereas guys don't, there's really not that much of a difference.

And the biggest component of the way girls are looked at is like, their weight. So when your dad is like, dude, check how heavy she is. And then your friend lifts her up and goes, dude, she is heavy. They'd be like, dude, this is crazy. And they'd high-five me. Of course, they're high-fiving me. And meanwhile, she's like, wait a second. So it's just a little heads up.

I remember you, I remember one specific instance. in the garage or like outside in our old house in ocean beach in the back on the pavement I remember Seth was over yeah and you made him do that and I was like a little bit embarrassed because I because I had like a cross on Seth yeah I was like oh we're gonna get married when we're older or blah okay whatever I was like eight nice seven and so I was like oh shit like a little bit embarrassed you know but I didn't really think like I was like embarrassed but then I was like Okay, whatever. So let me ask you this about that experience.

So, because obviously he's not, it's not like an intentional abuse or, you know, nothing like this. It's like, in fact, it's the opposite. No, we talk about it now because I've, because I'll be like, bro, you literally called me dense. You called me like a bowling ball, all this stuff. That's like, and he said, dude, that's the biggest common man I could ever give you. Like, that's what he said now. And I understand it now, as I've embraced, I'm like stronger but like when I was a kid I was like oh shit dude I got to like

change I got to do something about this because this is not good do you think that it because okay so there's a different so him saying that stuff for sure it's gonna land what he's saying is landing but his tone isn't like oh it's not a negative tone it's a positive so did you sense any of that going on like or was it just hey you're saying I'm dense that's bad no I feel like looking back on now I remember it being stoked It's just how I like Twisted the words in my head Yeah and also the way

For lack of a better word Like society Right right Yeah for sure Is you look at the Barbies And you look at it skinny skinny skinny skinny And here's your dad Yeah

Being like dude you're so heavy Right Like just like that I'm totally stoked Yeah But I didn't I'm an idiot You know I just didn't make the connection

Yeah but I feel like The outcome and the whole deal it would be a completely different situation if you said it in a negative in some bizarre world or something if you're saying it with a negative tone that's like a whole different thing even though you're not taking it as good

you'd still take it bad of course but it would be like I feel like the outcome would be like way different and way worse and I guess the lesson here is like even with the best intentions yeah 100% yes it was not good and yeah and imagine if you had

negative intentions right you know you got You gotta remember, this is sort of like a leadership lesson too. You know, I talk about this sometimes. When you're in a leadership position, you got to remember that your words carry more weight, right? A lot more weight. So if you work for me, echo and I go, even if I'm just joking around, you know, I go, I guess you didn't really want to put your best effort to this video that you had made. Yeah.

You know, even though I'm joking, it has weight. By the way, it also has weight when you say something complimentary. It's more, so a lot of times you don't recognize that, oh, I'm the boss here. I need to give some compliments because in my mind, I'm like, Echo doesn't really care if I say like, hey, dude, that was a really good job. Yeah. But in your mind, again, it's just because I'm thinking, oh, who am I? I'm just a dude. Yeah. But in your mind, you're like, oh, the talk was the boss. He's the CEO or he's the lieutenant or whatever. Yeah.

In my mind, I'm like, I'm just another dude. So you got to keep that in mind your weight the word the weight of your words as a leader is a lot more than you think they are and the weight of your words as a parent is probably even heavier than that and so even when you're saying something with the best intention if you're not heavier no pun intended yeah they are certainly heavier and denser yeah yes yes they land with more weight yeah just more dense like a bowling ball yeah um So there you go. Be careful what? Be very careful what you say to your kids. And I'll tell you another thing that's important to remember is your kids. Like they're going to go through little phases.

Some of the phases that they go through are four days long. Some of the phases that they go through are four weeks long. Some of them are four months long. But just about nothing that they're doing is going to have some big permanent like, that's the way my child is now. Like for a little while they're going to be into, or, I don't know,

they're going to listen to music that you don't like. And you're going to, why are you listening to this crap? Or they're going to be into some sport that you don't like. Or they're going to, whatever, just name it. And we'll get to one of those because,

you know, Rana got really, you got really into cheerleading for a little while. And I didn't like cheerleading. I like, I appreciate it more now. But at the time, there was things I looked at it.

I was like, oh, I don't really like this. But we'll get there. But my point is, if you feel like you need to impose corrective measures on your kids because they've taken one step off of the path, don't, don't. It's not worth it. Let them bump into the guardrails and be like, ooh, that path didn't seem really smart. I'm going to go back towards the right path. Because we try and we worry another story I tell us about Ethan.

one of my son's friends and when I took him to jiu-jitsu when he was five years old hated it didn't come back six-year-old took him again hated it seven years old hated it eight years old eight years old he's totally totally fine totally into it and my point in saying that is he got really good really quick and it wasn't like his life was ruined because he didn't train and it wasn't even like if he wanted to become a world champion he would have become a world champion even though he was starting five years later than you know even though he started training training earnestly at nine. It doesn't really matter.

So we think that our kid, you know, we make them into the world champion like, bro, chill. You know who's gonna make your kid? You know who's gonna make the kid into a world champion? The kid.

The kid is. So give them some space, give them some room. Speaking of jiu-jitsu and imposing jiu-jitsu, and this is something I've talked about a lot on the podcast, which is,

I impose. used Jiu Jitsu on all my kids in a big way. And when I say in a big way, I mean seven days a week. Not like what you're doing, Echo. Thank you. Once a week. I love it. I love seeing them.

Is it once a week right now? Is it twice a week? Oh, for the kids? Yeah, one time. Sometimes twice. Once or twice, yeah. Minimum. Minimum once.

The mandatory, that's the routine. And what's the reason? What we always talk about, where Jiu Jitsu is like you are, they are not allowed to not know Jiu Jitsu growing up, just, for all the reasons that we explained and all the stuff or whatever. And they've accepted that. So yeah, boom.

So just like you can't, just like you have to use the toilet and not like use the floor. Yes, exactly. Good confidence. Just like you have to brush your teeth in the morning. You just got to do, hey, one day a week. That's just the way it is.

That's just the thing. Yeah, fully. I think that's a really good policy. I think twice a week's a better policy. Oh yeah. I agree. I think once is good. I think for like young kids

because even the, even the thought, of changing it from once to twice. Like I just had a kid in my kids class cry and his mom told me it's because we changed it from once a week to twice a week. I think once feels a little bit like, oh, that's fine once a week.

But it's like, bro, the day, the second day comes by so quick. They're like, ooh. Again. You know. Yeah, especially, and you know, kids and you're, actually you have the most experience probably because you teach kids class.

Yeah. Or when you teach my kids class. the you see the difference like if a kid has like not that fun of a time and then he oh I got to go again day after tomorrow it's going to be like more of a thing you know so they can have like a good fun like my son for example you make him go by himself he's going to be like can we go late can we go home early or whatever but if he's with jack or whoever like some new friend aviary yeah he'll come he'll be like fired up ready to go running around that he don't want to leave see what I'm saying so it can be night and day like for a kid

kid. So yeah. They like he was like choking him out having so much fun learning doing the technique with Jack. Yeah. Yeah. Having a friend really makes a huge different. Hey and by the way that's not not just for all kids. Like today for open mat I just texted like the group and I was like hey who's and I was kind of like you know you know this and that I got a busy and I was like hey is anyone who's training and like few people Roger up Greg train. Yeah. Dr. Luke. Dr. Luke were like, hey, I'm in.

And as soon as I saw him, I was like, totally pumped. Yeah, ready to roll. You didn't respond, by the way. Oh, well. Road work. Yeah, that's right. You do the road work. But that's how my older sister and I got back into Jitsu.

We would just go to victory to Nogi literally once a week and just go in the corner and do the moves and tell each other, oh, yeah, this doesn't work. Like, we would literally be, I think I could get out of this. I can just limp arm out of this. And, but we would go. We would have fun. and like having a partner when you show up, you don't have to do that like look around. No one's making eye contact with you.

It's worse, especially if you're a girl too, not even to play the girl card, but like it is, it is like worse. And just having that set partner that you're like, okay, if I, if no one else wants to roll with me, I have that one person, we can just roll five rounds if we want. Yeah, yeah. You know?

Well, yeah. Yeah. Well, you mentioned getting back into the Jiu-Jitsu, but for a while you got out of Jiu-Jitsu, And again, I believe this is because of me, because I was so, like, just passionate about Jiu-Jitsu. And, you know, you guys were training every day. You were on Saturdays and Sundays, it was like five hours.

It was like five hours in the gym. Actually, one of you was saying the other day that, because you'd go in, you'd do the striking class, you do the grappling class, and then I would go do class, and then I would do open mat. So there's five hours. And this is on a Saturday. every Saturday and Sunday. But I think it was either you or maybe your brother was saying, you would be sitting downstairs waiting for me

and hear my flip-flops coming down the stairs and you'd get like excited. Yeah, wait what? Like what, it's time to go? Yeah, it's time to go. And when it wasn't his flip-flops, bro, sit back down. We got to push through, you know. And the other thing I did that was not smart

is I would make you guys compete. And not like that's not bad enough. make you compete and then put you up a weight class, put you up a belt level, put you up an age group. And so you're going with kids that are more experienced, heavier and older than you. Was that intentional?

Yes. In my mind, I was like, oh, I want to make these. In my mind, it was like they, because the tournaments were so small, it was like all the girls are going to go together no matter what belt, like level. Sometimes it would be that.

But then they'd, be like, well, you know, because I would know that people run in the tournaments and be like, hey, Jocko, do you want your daughter to go in this group, which is like lower or her age? And we only had, we got three girls in there. We got two girls or three girls in the older group. And I like, yeah, put her in the older group. And, and I'm not kidding. I 100% in my mind thought I was doing you kids the biggest favor in the world.

And just like, oh, man, imagine how good they're getting right now. And here's the reality of the situation. is you go you enter the tournament you go with someone that's bigger stronger heavier and older than you you get smashed it's not fun you get defeated you get humiliated because because all gra all fighting combat sports and all single uh uh opponent sports which is you and another person there's no team like no you are it's all you and so it's humiliating and there's an added component And that in jujitsu,

you have to admit that this person is a superior predator than you are. Even if it's in a primal, like subconscious level, in your mind, even as a little kid, you go, oh, I can't stop this person from physically doing whatever they want to me. And actually, I think it was Huberman, who either he had a guest on or we were talking about this, but the way you should actually set things up, when you do it intentionally

is you should try and get not just kids but everyone, 80% of the time they're winning. I think that was Jordan Peterson. Oh, was it Jordan? Okay, so 80% of the time you're winning, 20% of the time you're losing. That's like you feel good,

you feel good, but I got beat but I know I can win. So I put you guys in scenarios where oftentimes it was 90% losing. I don't even. gonna really remember when like won you won some oh I won against my friend oh yeah you had to go against one of your friends

and you beat her and then you were crying yeah because you were sweet it's bad yeah so so what all the um the outcome of all this bad behavior by me was you and your sister and your brother were just like we don't want to go we don't want to go we don't want to go I remember we'd because we're just

going to get our ass kicked. Oh yeah, because I would also do this in practice. So like at the gym, it's like, oh, yeah. Because at the gym, you know, you've got the classes from whatever, eight to 13. You've got 13 year old boys in there. And I'd be like, Rana, here you go. Well, this kid has, you know, got a mustache. You know what I mean?

And Rana's eight. So it just wasn't fun. I didn't make it fun. And this is the biggest thing I tell people now with your kids. And it's just not with Jiu-Jitsu, man. It's with everything. Make it fun if you happen to have a kid because I've had kids there's been kids like this at victory over the years You might have a kid that's a natural competitor and fun for them is going really hard and

Competing and sometimes getting beat there's kids like that It's one out of every hundred It's one out of every hundred most kids first of all they don't really care about the thing that you care about Like they're like dude what are you what is this weird stuff where we roll around the ground and try and choke each other. I don't even, you know, I don't want to do that. I want to draw or I want to play baseball. It's some other thing. And sometimes you're the one that's into baseball. Dude, you don't understand, dude. You know how awesome it is for a person to be able to hit this tiny ball that's flying at 90 miles an hour. Do you know what kind of human skill that is?

Kids like, I don't freaking care. It means nothing to me. That again, I'll bring this, this clip up again. And I don't even know what the movie is, but it's Matt Damon. Yeah, yeah. And because they make a bunch of memes with it now where they're showing the kid he's got like squat rack in his room or he's got mats in his room or he's got a bow and arrow in his room. And Matt Damon, the dad's, he's yelling at his kid. And you know, you can't make me live after your,

you can't make me follow your dreams. And he's like, yes, I can. He's like, dad, why are you yelling? He says, because it's a good dream. So eventually the pressure, and I realized, eventually I was like yeah I'm I'm clearly doing something wrong

what was it that made you realize do you remember just they were freaking miserable and every time going to the gym was a gut check of like tears yeah probably throwing yeah being in the car like throwing stuff we like threw like water bottles

yeah one time they threw water bottle at me from the back of the minivan all three of us like crying straight up rebellion trying to get our mom to like tell dad like they don't want to do this and dad's like all right well I don't care yeah for a lot I said I don't care and just be quiet keep going so you did that it's a good dream that's basically what you just did I 100% did it yeah this is like I wish I would have been able to hear this and I didn't and so finally I was like yep you are being an idiot and the big

the big disconnect that I had and this is again this is something I teach in actually so on front all the time is I would never impose things on my platoon. I wouldn't be like, shut up guys, this is what you're doing. I would never do that. I would talk to them and listen to their side of the story and explain to them why something's important. And there was no, you know, it's pretty easy in the SEAL teams. You're like, well, do you want to be prepared for war?

And if you get to there in a conversation, the guys go, yeah, we want to be prepared. We'll go do the training or we'll get this piece of gear or we'll like, Guys, we're all unified with one goal. And you could figure that out with Jiu-Jitsu too. Like, hey, you're doing this with your kids right now. I go, I was like, hey, I just want you to be, you want to be prepared for life, right? Like, you want to be able to handle yourself if something goes wrong. And kids will kind of go, yeah.

But even a kid can't really fathom, like, such long term. Right. Like, if you were probably like, well, one day, you're going to, you're going to need to find, okay, bro. Yeah. No, that's not true. Yep. And that's why even in that situation, it's like going back to what I said about Ethan, like, okay, well, you know, you don't need to train right now then. And that's perfectly fine. Yeah. Like it's perfectly fine. It's way better than creating an antagonistic relationship with your platoon or even worse, creating an antagonistic relationship with your kids where they don't want to do it. And so after I realized that and I wasn't happy about it, but I was like, well, yeah, I guess this is what we're doing. Now, I will say, that I let the girls kind of stop, but my son, I was like, yeah, I didn't happen.

And then I think a lot of that came from the fact that in my mind, as a boy, you 100% are gonna be fighting. Like, as a girl, you can avoid it, you can be quick-witted in a lot of cases, but in my mind, especially from my old job, like you have to just fight, you have to fight other guys, it's just happening. And I just kept him going.

And I will say this as well. Once I isolated him from you two, from his two sisters, he was kind of more on board. And then the other thing is he started like, I think one of his buddies got it. I think Ethan got into it at the time. And so Jonah. Yeah, Jonah. And so now that now he had a couple buddies. But that mob mentality is, is gnarly.

A classic example of that mob mentality is when, so we have our first. three kids are born, and then there's a seven year gap. So it's been seven years. And we're in our little house, 934 square feet in Ocean Beach, California. And my wife gets pregnant again. And so it's Halloween night. So this must have been, I don't know what year it was, but it's Halloween night. And we're like super stoked.

2009? 2009, right? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. We're super stoked. And so we bring the kids together. And we're like, guys, we got some great news. And they're thinking like, what?

We're getting candy. What are we doing? We're going to trick or treat. We go into the Niners house. What's the happen? We're going up to the Curse's house. What are we doing? And we're like,

mom's pregnant and you guys are going to have a little baby brother or a sister. And it, leading from the front, my oldest daughter was like, Got the most horrified look on her face. It stormed away. Rana, you started just crying. And then fourth followed suit. And it was like, bro, what just happened?

We were like, how could you guys do that too? Yeah. Yeah, it was wild. I think Freya, your older sister, I think she was very sensitive about money. She was and is. Yeah. To this day.

Like she thought, A child costs money and we don't have any money. And now you're going to have another child. You guys are idiots and you're irresponsible. She literally would think that at the age of whatever, 10, be like, you guys are irresponsible. Yeah. So why were you crying? I was just upset because Freya.

No, if you see like, if the person that you look up to is like freaking out, you're like, oh, God, this is bad. That is 100% real. And like, I looked up to Freya. so much that my sister so much. She would like so basically when we were younger, we would get these coconut ice pops from this place and we were each allowed to have one. And my sister would finish hers first knowing that she could ask me for a bite of mine and I would say yes because I had to because I thought she was like awesome.

I still do think she's awesome but can I have a bite? If not, I was going to get the silent treatment. So like I guess I'm giving up my bite Especially those I those coconut ice packs So good The pulp was at Yeah the last They're like coconut shreds

Bro I would try to finish mine so fast So she went So you got you know So you stop training Jiu Jitsu And that's when you kind of got More really into gymnastics for a while Yeah And you were into gymnastics

Did you like it? You liked it I really liked it. You went to it a lot. Yeah, I went to it a lot, but I was really not good. I went to it a lot, and it was just some gymnastics place in Point Loma. And a bunch of my friends were in it, and it was really fun. I just, it wasn't for me.

Like being, I wanted it so bad to be for me, but it wasn't. And so I, one of my friends started doing cheer, competitive cheerleading. And it's sort of similar to gymnastics, like tumbling and stuff. And actually in gymnastics, I liked the tumbling part. I wasn't really good on the bars and the beam. Like, I would just fall off and stuff. Like, once I got a new skill, and it was like the silliest skill ever. My dad was, like, filming, and everyone's like, you got this.

And it's just like me going around the bar. Like, it was just like so. But then my friend started doing gymnastics, and she said, you're going to, like, you would really, or my friend started doing cheerleading and she said you're really going to like this and the Drews, family friend of ours and I like moved from gymnastics to cheer

and like immediately was like in love with it it was so much fun and so hard like I tell everyone that I that I like people in Jiu Jitsu say what sport did you do? I said I did wrestling but I also did cheerleading which is random. I know it's an interesting combination and they were like cheerleading like what and I was like yeah dude that was hard like we is it was like a routine so you're not cheering for anyone you're you're like going against different

teams and you it's like two minutes and 30 seconds of all out like like pushing yourself flips tumbling lifting people like all while looking like at the at the cameras like having to look crazy and And it was so much fun. I had so much fun. Yeah. A lot of times people don't realize how hard that is. Well, it kind of is gymnastics in a way.

Do you guys like prop each other up and all that? So in college sports, they have the cheerleading team is girls and guys. And you'd think like, oh, a guy doing the cheerleader, like, it makes more sense for the guy to go play football. It's like just as hard as football because you got to balance these girls up here. Like the guys are all buff and like big and stuff. And you got to do it all game too. They must come from gymnastics.

Yeah, most of the time, yeah. That's what it seemed like. Well, yeah, that's the thing. So the other thing I remember, you tell me about cheer versus gymnastics is gymnastics is like super methodical. Like you have to do each little, at least the place where you trained, it was like you have to do. Imagine like a jih Tzu place where, hey, before you can learn the arm lock, you gotta learn the this sweep and so we're not gonna teach you this other thing until you know this thing and until you're proficient in it and by the way you're not

gonna be able to roll until you get your blue belt so is that a good comparison Rana yeah we we worked a lot on specific skills that were like mine weren't the prettiest but I but when I went over to cheer like they were like oh can you do a standing backflip and I'm like no and they're like okay let's get it so I would I just, I just, they would put a squishy pad down and you would go. But in gymnastics, it's like, your, the progression is so slow. It's slow and methodical. And I think I was kind of like, bro.

Like, let me do some crazy stuff, you know. Like I liked, I liked, I was not that great of a tumbler. You have to be well-rounded in competitive cheer. Like, you have to jump, you have to do like jumps, standing backflips. Then you have to do tumbling, which is running. But then also you have to lift people above your head. And then you got to remember the dance. It's just so much going on.

And I think I really liked that aspect of it. Just I don't know if I'm going to land this freaking standing tuck. I might break my finger, which I did. I might break my finger. I might put my face on the mat. That's fine. You just like that that's all the more reason to like go ham at it. And you used to puke every time.

Oh, yeah. At the end of each thing. When we'd compete, like when we'd compete, but even when we were getting ready to compete, we, like, you do your routine all out. So if someone falls, you got to redo it. You got to do the, redo the routine from like zero. At least this is where I trained. And which is what?

It's called Calicoce Elite. Is Cali Coast Elite still around? I believe it is. Yeah. Shout out Cali Coat Salit. Shout out Calico's elite. Shout out Coach Betty and Coach Angela. Okay.

But they were legit. like if we if we let someone fall like we were restarting and I would literally vomit because I was giving it my like throwing myself over when I couldn't even do it regularly like it was crazy where did you that's what I think like made me in gymnastics I don't think that I was very athletic I think I kind of moved a little bit slower I think I don't know like I did I worked out, we worked out like before school and stuff in elementary school and I was like, I could do pull-ups and stuff. But like gymnastics, I remember watching videos and I'm like, ah, like, it's like I'm not moving very well, but then when during cheer, I feel like it taught me

like athleticism. Like you're going to throw yourself over your head, but you're going to like land it because like it's like a really athletic dude can get a backflip very quickly because it's like athletic it's like that moving yourself throughout through the air and having to like really drive off your legs and and that's that and you got to land it or else you're redoing the routine um is that when did you get someone to freaking handstands was that from gymnastics yeah it was gymnastics that was like the one thing that I really just got quickly I don't know what it was a lot of people like progress way faster than me and move to different gyms and for gymnastics.

But when we had the handstand competition, bro, it was over for y'all. So echo, I'm not kidding. She would walk around the house, our house, just a handstand. Just walk around. Like, show up for dinner, like coming from her room. She just, her feet rolling. Yep, feet roll in. Through the hallways.

Through the hallways. Like everywhere she would just handstand, just walk around. It was like, you know, when someone has a. a fidgeting habit they turn their pen or they they do that with their lips or they whatever tap their foot it was like that but you just like would be standing there and just do handstand and just like stand there just do a handstand walking around and my feet would be flying everywhere bro like i was that did it feel like a fidget or was it like you're just like kind of into it that hardcore i just loved it like i just loved going going on my hands i thought it was so fun well i don't know if you

know this about me i had a handstand face as well. Really? Yeah, from judo when I was small. So I was maybe 10, 11, no, it was before fifth grade. So, yeah, maybe nine. Anyway, I took judo and one of the drills was walking on your hands across the mat and back.

No one could do it. You just walk and then if you go down and continue, right? One guy could do it. It's maybe a 20-year-old guy. And he was like kind of buff. And I remember everyone like being so impressed with this guy. And I was like, man, that would be cool if I was that guy, you know, it's like the new guy.

But I was like, what if I was a guy who could do it too, you know? So I'd just go home and practice. And I think you're right. I think guys want to know. I was one of these guys who I kind of picked it up quick. And not that I could do it really good, really quick, but the progress was quick. Like when I practiced for like even like one hour, I would be like, wait, I can kind of walk a little bit. And I said, I can kind of see myself doing this.

And it took maybe three weeks, but I could do it. I could do the whole thing. And I remember everybody in judo class being like, oh, look at this kid. He's so freaking cool or whatever with Ansa and me and that other guy who were the only guys who could do it. And then eventually when I got into high school, I walked across the football field on my hands. And I was like, I won 50 bucks, by the way. Whoa. And yeah, my friend was super impressed.

I literally just did a minute handstand at the muster this past weekend because all the kids were like, I can do handsstands. I'm like, oh, really? And I was like, well, I can do handsstands too. And they were like, no way. And I'm like, I can do one for a minute. And they were like, are you serious? And I'm like, put the clock on. And I did it.

They were like, whoa. They were so impressed. That's if you can still do it. I don't practice that often either. Like, I think that, like, handsands in gymnastics. Like, a lot of great wrestlers and jiu-jitsu players are, like, have those roots of gymnastics tumbling, just tumbling in general, too. Like, when we went out to Philly for a wrestling camp that me and my younger sister went to

this past summer, bro, all the guys were doing backflips. All the wrestlers were doing backflips. And this camp was really good wrestlers. And they were doing backflips. They were doing them, they were doing front hands rings off of each other. And it's just so athletic, like that athleticism.

Yeah. Even like, like the 10th Planet guys like Gio and Boogie. Like they came from breakdancing. And so they kind of bring that thing in there. A couple things about cheer that I think is, again, these are like lessons learned for me. But at this point,

you know, now I had learned a little bit more and I understood a little bit better. you know, I had made these mistakes with you guys, like, forcing you to do jiu-jitsu and stuff like that. And so when you wanted to do cheer, of course, I was wrong because I just thought, in my mind, I just had like the stereotypical cheerleader in my brain of like, oh, what do they do, like, sit there and go raw, raw football player and they wear a bunch of makeup and they have, like, big hair. We did wear makeup and have big hair. You did wear makeup and you work crazy amount of makeup and crazy amount of hair. But I didn't, but the athletic side, I didn't really.

understand. And actually I worked with a woman who I told her like, yeah, man, my, my, and this woman's awesome, like a badass, uh, CEO of a company. And I was like, yeah, you know, my daughter's going to do cheerleading. And she's like, I did cheer is the best thing for me. And I was like, oh, really? I said, why? And she said, well, you got to stand up there. You got to do all this athletic stuff. And, and she was talking about high school cheer. She says, you know, you got to get up in front of a bunch of people. And you got to yell. And that takes a lot of confidence. And that takes a lot of confidence. So it helped out her confidence. Um, so there was, I kind of saw the negative, but at least at this point, I was smart enough to be, okay, kind of what I said earlier. Like,

if your kid's going to go through phases, I thought, you know what, just going to do some cheerleading. Okay. And actually, our neighbor, Dieter, because his daughter, this was high school cheer. And both of you did high school cheer. And he, he, He's, he and I was talking shit to each other. And I was driving down the alley. And I stopped to talk to him. And he's like, so you get, you're letting your daughter do cheer, huh? Because he thought, you know, like, how's Jocko?

You know, big tough Jocko is going to let his daughter do cheer. And I was like, and he, can he, can he knew because his daughter did cheer. And I, he said, so you're going to let your daughter do cheer, huh? Very accusatory. And I said something like, dude, I figure I let her do cheer right now. Otherwise, you're going to end up with a free. freaking a meth head. You know what I mean?

Like when you try and control people. Yeah, she's going to rebel. So, I also wrestled at the same time anyway. Yeah. The other thing is, I think, yeah, that's true. Once you were wrestling,

you get a little, great. I remember also, and this is just speaking again about like your natural abilities, which I don't, I don't know why you didn't, I'm sure there's like a specific

type of body type that is good for girls gymnastics. I know. I'm just kidding. You did, you did like I had a sage train you guys, Sage Bergner and she's like a national level wrestler or sorry, national level weightlifter. Her dad is a badass like Olympic lifting coach and she was working with you for the summer and one day she just said if I could design a human. for Olympic weightlifting, it would be Rana.

And I was like, okay. So I thought that was pretty cool. I think there is a specific build for gymnastics. Plus, I just, it just wasn't, like, I just didn't connect with me. I don't know. Yeah, I think it was, honestly, now that I've discussed it with you,

I think you were bored. I think you wanted it more like, like more activity and more like, I did like that aspect of cheer. When I'd have to pick you up from practices, you know, you're like... Bro, you don't break a sweat, honestly. Yeah, I know.

And I was like, I bet there's people listening right now that are like, she went to the wrong gymnastics place because I guarantee there's places that are psyched. And it was a beginner gymnastics place. I'm not, like, it just wasn't for me. We had good coaches, good people. But I just, like, I would... It was not like a good form of exercise for me either, in my opinion.

But when I got to cheer, bro, I was sweating like crazy. Like sweat like never before. Like really, really working my butt off. Like, it was crazy. So you get into freshman year in high school. I think I just straight up said, I will pay you money if you wrestle. Yeah. Well, my older sister tried to wrestle and I knew you were going to like pay me to wrestle in the first.

Like you weren't like, I was just like, all right. I'll get paid to do it Yeah unfortunately for your older sister She was the only girl on the team And she was just after like a few weeks She was like dad I'm literally just getting like My face pounded into the mat And it just sucks

And it's sweaty and nasty And there's these freaking 17 year old dudes in there And she's the only girl And that goes back to like not having a partner That you like that seriously can make it break it Like I like my dad Told my brother you're going to go to to Rana's wrestling practices And when he wasn't in high school yet

Yeah So I'm two years older than him And he's like you're gonna go so ran up Because I was the only girl also So he was like you're gonna go and just be your partner And that was like seriously amazing I would have made friends eventually Because I don't think that I would have

Would have not done it But you never know But, yeah, having my brother there was like awesome because I didn't have to look around. No one wants to pair with the one girl because that's, you know, we're in high school, you know? Yeah, really, that's real. And luckily, he was probably like,

I guess if you were 13, he was like 11 or something like that. But you guys were about the same size. You guys were similar enough in size. Yeah, we were like exactly the same size. And we were just like little meatballs. like dragging our feet when we'd have to do runs for wrestling. Like we were always the last two to finish. Just like the 11 year old and the one girl, you know,

holding it down. But it was fun. I didn't mind. And people were like supportive. They were like cheering. You're the first, I think it was the first match that you ever did in wrestling. Like a girl, like you almost kind of fight.

A girl swung at you. Like a hostile girl just reekin. tried to fight you. Yeah. So that was a wake-up call. She got a warning, and then I lost. But it was fun. Yeah.

Yeah. Wait, why'd she swing at you then? She swung at me. I don't know. She just did. We were both freshmen. First tournament, small tournament. Yeah.

You know, clubbing the heads of thing. I think she just, like, was getting pressed and swung. But my mom, I looked over there in the crowd. She was like, Dude, your mom couldn't even watch you. No, she would like, she would like leave. And even, it's funny because even now when I compete, my brother cannot, he doesn't even like to watch the streaming of me.

He said I was nervous. He was like, I'm nervous. Oh, he's more nervous. Yeah, he's more nervous, which I don't know, but I'm like, that's crazy. You can't even, you're not even going to watch. Yeah. That's fine. That's actually really good.

That means like, obviously, you know, really simply put, that means he cares, you know, like cares like, lot or whatever. I had tournaments or I have like I had a super fight a couple of like a couple weekends ago and it was in San Diego and he didn't go. Oh because he was nervous or whatever? Probably. Yeah.

It was funny. I was talking to your mom that day because I was there and I was like, yeah, how do you feel about this? Because usually it's very common for the parents or the coach to be more nervous than the competitor. That's pretty a common thing, you know? So I asked your mom, I was like, how do you feel, you know, when you see your, you know, your kids compete or whatever?

She's like, I just hope they're not too stressed. And, you know, it really has this real sense and it's really carrying a perspective, you know, and the whole thing is very interesting. This is also where did you cut, you did your first weight cut your freshman year. Yeah. And I remember because we weighed you at the house and you were over in the morning and we had to come down to victory, turn on the sauna at five in the morning and put you on the treadmill and put you in the sauna to cut weight.

Yeah. And that was, I think that was the same tournament where like this girl was trying to make weight and she freaking caught all of her hair off. Like got off the scale was still over. Right next to me. And it was like a high school freshman, freshman. And I mean, it's been a couple of years, obviously, but there weren't too many girls. Yeah.

At the tournament, I'm like, dude, she throws it away in the trash can. Makes weight. That's kind of going hard. Yeah. I was like, all right. You ended up getting hurt your second tournament, which was a bummer. And it was like a pretty bad shoulder injury. And that was it for your season.

That was it for your freshman season. Yeah. You kept going to practices, though. Yeah, you kept going to practices. And you kept trying to learn. But the weird thing is you weren't, you were basically had like, three moves. You know,

like, I'm gonna double leg you. I'm gonna, whatever. I hardly even double leg. I was just like, I'm gonna fireman, ankle pick. But even freshmen, I think freshman to sophomore year, I had no moves.

I'm not even kidding. I just was like, all right, let's go. But you would win based on your, just like, Jiu-Jitsu that you had in an ancient memory in your brain, and you were just stronger than the other people.

you would just be able to like, like I'd watch girls grab you and you could see the, you'd see the look on their face like, oh no, like, oh, this is going to be a little bit more difficult than I thought. Did you do cross-country your freshman year too? I did it in my sophomore year.

All right, so let's go to your sophomore year. Your sophomore year. So freshman year, so you do two sports. So freshman year I did cheerleading and high school cheerleading and wrestling. And I did completely. competitive cheerleading too. But my second year, I didn't want to do high school cheerleading anymore.

So you had to pick a second sport. I picked cross-country for some random reason. Because I was like, I'll get my running better. And it was like a gut check. Yeah. I remember a lot of complaining. And my wife, who's a saint, by the way. I don't know what the statues of a little bit.

are on this, but I do know that my wife would like pick, ran up somewhere on the conditioning run and like drop her off somewhere else. Yeah. Once we got caught, oh, we all got in trouble so badly. What did what? What? What? So, yeah, because orange, like, uh, the guy.

What is it? Coach. Our coach, he would ride along on a bike on a bike and like me and my group of friends that were in that together. We would just like fall so far behind because we were gossiping. We were not running. We were just like, like I had the idea that I was going to work on my running and then I just simply like, it's like, this is bull.

But I actually do remember something interesting that just popped into my head. All the cross-country girls wore Nike pros. They're shorts. And when I ran my chafe, like I would literally bleed like my chafe. my inner thighs. And I asked the coach and I said, can I please wear leggings? And he said no to me because that was our uniform. And I was like, bruh, because when we were running and it was so hot and we get so sweaty, then it gets sticky. So I was like getting such bad bumps in between my legs. Eventually I just wore leggings because it was like so painful and I was getting really like

inflamed. But I was like bro because cross country like historically has like, very slender runners, right? Yeah. So I was like, this is not going to do for me. I can't. I just switched it. I just wore what I want because it was too painful. But yeah, I remember that.

But yeah, we got caught cutting, cutting, like, I didn't cut the course of the official mat or the official run. So we'd have like 5Ks for time against other schools. And I, my friends were like, we're going to hide in the bathroom because there was an extra loop. I didn't have it. I genuinely, I was like, Like I'm not doing that.

And then they got like around the same time as me because I did the loop. And then they were like, okay, we're going to catch up with Rana. It's like, all right. Just ran it, you know. Well, I'm glad that you at least had the morals to not just straight, freaking cheat. Well, they got caught too. Yeah. Then I'm double glad.

Me too. And then wrestling your sophomore year, you still had your brother coming in. But now you also had some friends on the team. and you had another girl on the team that was good and she was strong super and kind of she was she was heavier than you yeah she was taller than you she was like she was a senior when I was a sophomore and she was one of my friend one of my wrestling friends older sister who just went into wrestling that one year of her senior year and it was so like nice to have a partner her name was Olivia and my brother was starting to get a growth spurt too so I couldn't like roll with him anymore he

would just like push me over bro but yeah it was nice to have Olivia and we had a bunch of seniors that year and that year was really hard we ran a lot we drilled a lot and yeah I honestly don't remember too much about it. Yeah, you were, I don't know what you, I don't know what you, like, your record was or whatever. It was probably something like even, you know what I mean? You was probably pretty even. Like, yeah. But the thing is you, you, you weren't too skilled. No. But you were freaking strong and you were tough and you had a couple good moves that you would be able to just impose on people. And, you know, when I look back now, I should have done more, I should have been more proactive in, like, getting you to wrestling camps where you would learn a lot.

Well, I don't know. True, true. Yeah. Because then I think. Yeah, I could have at least off. Yeah, who knows. Yeah, because if I was, if I would have been too fired up. I think.

Like, I can ruin anything. Because wrestling, this is the thing, wrestling, my dad, my dad didn't not wrestle in high school. They don't think they had wrestling. They didn't have wrestling. Nope. And it was sort of, because when I did jiu-jitsu, I did, I think like, I did like it. When he, when I actually had to fight someone, like, I would be like, oh, no, but then I, I wanted to fight someone.

Like, I liked it. And I think the same was true in wrestling, but it was my, it was like, even though they're very similar, I, I, in my mind was like, they are so different and this is mine. And that's his thing. Jiu-Jituzzi is his thing. Because remember, I would tell you, like, wrestling's way better. I would say wrestling's way better. I'd be like, I don't like, Jiu-Jitsu, you gotta like do all this stuff on the ground.

You have to like, it's just a pin for wrestling. It's just that's, you just have one objective. There's not all these submissions you could do. And in my mind, I was like, okay, this is my thing. My dad would come into the wrestling room like once or twice. It was just like me and my brother, like my wrestling friends, and it was fun. Yeah.

And like my dad never was like, you need to go to this camp. It was sort of just like I'm going to practices You didn't tell me to go to practices With my shoulder her I just went Yeah I definitely had Recognized the error of my ways

And like I said It kind of might have got missed in the conversation But I looked at you echo And I was like I can ruin anything Yeah And I didn't get missed Oh yeah I can straight up I can make anything suck

Yeah Like I can make the funnest thing Into like a stupid competition Where all of a sudden Everyone's freaking stressed out For no reason Forever too by the way That's that that's that

in my opinion is fun like who what if the kids like just play diving you're a good job they would have been done in one second yeah yeah yeah it was I honestly thought it was fun sometimes it was a little crazy but like all the games and stuff I had a good time let me put you this way I'll joke about this with your little sister and let's say she's like um let's say if she said oh I'd you know I I want to play guitar I'd be I'll joke this will be my joke with her. I'll be like, okay, let's go down a guitar center right now. I'm going to get you some lessons.

I'll get you some lessons. I'll get you an amp. You need to get a Gibson S.G. It's a very good guitar. And she just laughs. But that's how I can ruin things. You know what I understand? I can just go and it's a joke now.

It's a joke now, but back in the day, it would, could have been more serious and may have been more serious. That's why I was probably like, dude, so stoked that she's wrestling. So stoked that she's like, wrestling is better. I'm like, cool. In my mind, I'm like, bro, she is. You're not going to be like, you should do the summer thing. because there's no way, I think in my mind,

that would have blown up. Maybe. You know? I don't know, maybe. Well, then by your junior year, you were more fired up for wrestling. Yeah. And you actually did train all summer long.

No, I only trained, so I only trained my junior year summer going into my senior year because I really wanted to make it to state. I was like, my coach, Coach Spencer, he, we worked out at Victory every morning and then we'd go to Taylor Johnson's wrestling class during the summer. And then when school started, we, the wrestling squad, because wrestling was the second season of high school sports. So we had like those first couple months. And then we, me like, and my brother and our other wrestling friends would come in to

just victory and Taylor would teach later in the day. And it was really fun. But that was the only time I did off-season. Yeah. On my own volition. And it was fun. And then senior year was like crazy. Yeah, yeah.

And your goal was to make it to state. And you did make it to state. Yeah. And that was freaking, that was epic. But the other thing that I think you started doing your senior year was like cutting weight. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I started a couple years before, but my senior year, I really was like,

legit cray cray about it a little bit you were like focused on weight not just in wrestling too just like in life like you just wanted to be you didn't want to be heavy I did not no I didn't but um

that's why it's so hard for me to recall even my senior year there are so many good moments like making it to state but at state I like I weighed in at like six pounds less than I could have. And my coach said, you have five pounds. You need to eat.

But I wouldn't because I, like, just didn't want to. I wanted to, like, lose weight. And I feel like, like, I was literally at state. And I was, like, worried about gaining weight. Mm-hmm. Even though you had six pounds. Even though I had six pounds. You had six pounds.

And you're at state and you were like, no, I don't want to gain any weight. getting to state was probably like one of my best memories was you so you were at you were in in it's it's CIF and masters it's basically the regional tournament to get to state yeah and so you had the first day you lost one and my first match was it your first match no I'm saying the first day the first day I think yeah I think it was my second match I lost yeah either that it was the later in the day but anyway I don't know. You lost a match your first day.

And what that meant was Echo Charles. The next day, she had to win five straight matches. Each match getting harder and harder and harder as you're going smaller and smaller into the bracket. And so she loses one match that first day. And I remember we, and she had, she could have done the weight class below, but she qualified at whatever it was, 130. I qualified at 143.

So, so, but at that tournament, I was like 140. I was probably below that. Like 136 or something. So she could have made the next weight down, but she already qualified. So she loses that first day and I'm like, you know, and I'm in my mind, dude, I'm like, well, it's so bad that she didn't make it to state because it's going to be hard to win five matches straight the next day. But I was like, I offered up some comfort food. And I was like, yo, you want some pizza hut? And she's like, yeah.

And I'm like, what do you want? She's like, whatever. And I just, like, ordered everything. I ordered pizzas and pastas and all the whole nine yards. And she just kicked it and, you know, chowed down. And then the next day, she had these five matches. And what was, I don't know what happened. I don't know if it happened after the first match.

But you could see that little girl that carried the rock across the river. Like that little girl. arrived. And each match, you could see her. It was also, you'd work with, you know, Taylor, you'd work with Spencer, your coach. So you had more skills now. Yeah.

And you were starting to apply them for real. And not just imposing them because you're stronger, but doing them correctly and setting things up and stuff like this. And so each match you got, it was watching you get better and more determined. And each one you won, you were like getting more and more confident and more and more just I got this.

And we're out in Brawley. Brolly. Yeah. Brawley's awesome. It's an awesome. It's an Imperial Valley. It's a, they have great athletic program.

But it's also, it's in the middle of the desert. There's nothing out there but farms. And so the kids don't have a lot to do besides like compete and train. And they're all into it. And so they happen to hold this tournament out there in Brawley and in your whatever it was the second to your last match you were going against a girl from Brawley the stands are filled with people from Brawley and the Brawley people man brawley people are

fired up man they're there to win and so the crowd's going crazy and you had a crazy match with this awesome girl from Brawley and you threw down and you beat her 9-8 yeah yeah 9-8 I go called for stalling I was up 9-7 and like... 9-7, just... It was crazy. And the crowd was going totally insane. Because think of how, when you're down by one point, how crazy is the crowd?

The crowd's going totally nuts and she's stalling. Also, they had a full woman's team staff. They had like a team A, team B. And I think there was only... Well, I was the only one like left in from my school. But there was only like four of us. us that went to CIA. And all the girl, like, all the Brawley girls were like sitting in front.

Bro and the Brawley girls, like, they all have a letterman's jacket that has like the number of pins they got on it, what their weight classes. Like it's, it's an intimidating crew. Yeah, go ahead and hire props to prolly. So she won that match, which was awesome. And then you had in the match for third place, which meant you get to go to state, she had a girl that, that, that, you had beat before a couple times. And that girl told me afterwards,

I think she said something like that she was just scared to wrestle you because you were so strong. But I was like, yes. But you won that and then you ended up going to state. Probably one of the worst things in my whole life is when you went to state, I had a speaking event. And so I went to like, I watched your first match. Which I got annihilation.

because the girl was third, like third in the state or something, which is fine. I just was happy to be there. But then, so if you win one the first day, it just depends on your bracket. Well, I lost the first day,

but then I was on to day too because something with the bracket, I just was there. Wait, did I win this? No, I didn't. I won my second day. You won your second day. So I flew, I had to leave.

And if you ever get a chance to go to state championships in California, go watch it. Because they say it's the biggest wrestling tournament in the world because there's only one. There's in different states, they have like different size schools. So it's like, oh, this is a AAA school, double A school. And so there can be a bunch of different champions at 134. In California, there's one. So they say it's the biggest wrestling tournament in the world because it's 36 million people or I don't know many kids there are. But it's all these kids, and they go from all these kids all over the state of California down to one true champion.

And that was the first year, boys and girls competed at the same tournament, too. So it was at a legit, it was in Bakersfield. But it was at this, like, big arena. It was really cool. Yeah. But then I won one the next day and lost one the next day. And I wasn't there when you won. Yeah.

And I was pretty cool. So bummed out. Yeah. But you were the first, I think you were the first person to make it this. from Point Loma High School in wrestling in like 35 years or something crazy like that. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. So that was kind of epic.

I'll be down. The goal was accomplished. You get done with that. What year did you graduate high school? 2019. 2019. So 2019, now you go to college and you go to Cal Poly. Yep.

Um After I wrestled I was like I'm done with this rest Like I'm done with grappling Just in general You thought it was over Yeah I just was like

This is too much The way in part Was like really eating at my mind And I just said okay I'm done with this Oh so then you weren't worried about Wait anymore Oh

No I was So what was your attitude When you got to college What were you doing? What were you into? What was happening? So when I went to college, I was like, it's just me. It's just me, like not my family was there. And it was rough.

My first year was rough, but we got COVID. Wait, what was rough your first year? So basically I just, I had a couple of friends, and they're really awesome friends, but I didn't room with them. I, like, isolated myself a lot. my first year and I was very, very meticulous about everything that I ate and the way that I looked. So basically, it sort of started this, like, inkling started my, like, when I was, like, in seventh or eighth grade is when I downloaded a calorie counting app with one of my best friends at the time.

and like when I was in high school I was like it was sort of nice because I could just put it off on wrestling that I was cutting weight or whatever and I guess you could say I'm dense so people people would tell me like when I was not eating or eating very little they would say that I looked good and things like that and I'm not putting it on anyone it was same thing as when you would tell me things, it was like, I took them a certain way. So I took it as like, you like me better this way. And like, I just keep going. So basically college was like an environment where it was just me. And like I could just, I had full rain. Like it was, there was no one looking over me.

It was just like, I'm going to do everything that I want to do. I'm going to weigh everything that I eat. I'm going to like, like not go places. I'm going to isolate myself. So when you say you had full rain, what you mean? is you actually mean you had full control over everything that you wanted to do. Well, you know, because you said you had free reign, which indicates like you kind of just went wild, but it's actually the opposite.

You had, you were now in full control. You could only buy the foods that you thought you should be. It was free reign of doing some doing what I wanted to do. Yeah. Which was the strictness. Full control. I was like, this is awesome. I don't have to hide anything from anyone.

I'm just going to weigh all my food, take pictures of what I look like every single day. And like, that's that. Exercise a little bit too much. And that's that, you know? How much is too much? I know. I was thinking about this when I was driving over here because, like, obviously exercising every day is, like, awesome and I do it to this day.

But it was just like, it wasn't even like I was exercising too much. It was like for all the wrong reasons. It was more like a little different perspective of because I was doing fine and normal things. I was lifting stuff that I do now. That if someone was doing this today, it wouldn't be like, oh, they're going crazy. But it was just like, yeah, that's just how it was. So when you say the lifting for the working out for the wrong reasons. You weren't working out to be healthy.

No. You weren't working out because you were training for some kind of competition. you were just working out basically to burn calories. Yeah. So basically the like app that I had, it gives you a certain amount of calories and I'm short. And all the only three things it asks for your age, your height and your weight.

So like it doesn't ask anything else. And so it gives you like a amount of calories, which I think mine was like a thousand. Does it ask you your goal too? Yeah. It asks you or your goal. and it can say like you, like however much you want to lose, whatever. So then my goal was like a thousand calories a day, right?

Because that's what it told me to do. It told me to, this was, okay, this is a backtrack. This was in eighth grade when I put this information in. And I'm a child, first of all. And I'm dense. So I weigh more, but I didn't, I don't think I looked to, like, I don't think I looked unhealthy when I was a child. And that was, so that was an eighth grade.

It was like a thousand calories. Everything that you did exercise wise, you put it, you logged it in and it gave you more you could eat essentially. So, so basically like, dude, a thousand calories a day is freaking starvation. Starvation diet. This is like, and by the way, people talk about like, oh, should your kids have phones and they're thinking about Snapchat and Twitter and all this stuff? here I am like I had no idea I didn't know that you had this app until you told me the other day yeah like I and that was in seventh grade and even if I would have seen it even if I would have seen it

I probably would have just been like oh well she's you know whatever I oh she's being healthy yeah yeah all good but that was in seventh grade and now I'm what 20 I'm 23 now so but in college you were what I was still using that in college so in college I went to college when I was 18. So I started using it when I was 14 years old. But I wasn't too rigid when I like going through high school. Like there were times where I'd be super on it. And then, you know, you have family dinners and things like that and whatever.

But in college, that's the thing. Everything is controllable. Like everything, you can say no. No one, no one is living. with you to be like, you good, you should go to the dinner or whatever. And so I was so stoked because I was like hiding it the whole, like I was hiding it a long time. But I didn't really feel like it was something to hide. It was just like, this is just what I'm doing and I'm losing weight and that's good. And that's like how it should be. Yeah. Yeah. So I didn't, it wasn't like I was

hiding this huge secret that I, that to my like from my parents and stuff. But I just simply like didn't, I just kept it to myself. This is what I should be doing. And then, yeah. And then COVID came. Is that, did COVID come to your freshman year of college? Yeah. So that was my freshman year of college.

And now it's like beyond full control. Yeah. Because now you're just can't even go anywhere. Yeah. And it's like I got total control over everything in the world. Yeah. Did you have to go to classes or classes? Coming home for me was really hard to do because of that.

because of the everything that I bought, like everything that I wanted to consume, I bought, everything was under my control. So going home for me was really like hard to do because everyone's eating dinner. No one's weighing anything. No one's like, my mom isn't measuring out the tablespoons in her butter that she's putting in the pasta.

So like that was, I did not like to come home that often. I was like, I was like, oh, this is going to be so hard. like driving home and then when I come back it would be like time to get back on track like you know that cycle of it so so you're home in quarantine and actually we were living in like a smaller house at the time yeah so you and both your sisters were in one room yeah and then we eventually kicked your sister out into the living room but uh it was kind of good because you got to hang out with your sister kind of close for a while yeah me and my older sister didn't really talk in high school.

We like ran in different groups and like just liked different things. And we never really talked. I don't even really remember talking to her like at all, honestly. And then and then during COVID we we slept on a bunk bed together and like got super close immediately. Just became like came back as like two different like people from who we were in high school. And it was like so much fun. we were, like, COVID made us so, so close, which is fun. This reminds me of, so I had this rule, Echo Charles, another good thing for parenting.

I had a rule in my own head for when my kids were little. And that is like, I will never tell them to like be quiet. If they want to play guitar, play guitar. They want to play piano, play piano. They want to sing, sing. They want to dance, dance. Like, I was never going to be, I was never going to be. I was never going to stifle any creativity.

And I kept that rule. And I never stifled creativity. And certainly would never disrespect my kids by telling them to shut up, right? Like I never told my kids to shut up. In fact, I, in the past 20 years, I've only told someone to shut up, I think, four times. and it was the same person. And that person was rent. And it was all during COVID.

And each time I did it, she smiled and nodded and said, okay. So we're in this little house during COVID. And my two daughters who both have really good singing voices, they were both like the lead in the school play, the musicals and all this stuff. They both have really good voices. They would freaking sing.

as loud as they could the dumbest things over and over again for hours for hours and Rana has an especially powerful voice do you know who Adele is?

She can sing Adele songs and like good louder than Adele Adele has to use a microphone Rand doesn't need a microphone I understand so there was a few times during COVID where these two girls would be like

screen Don't you have a name for scream singing or something? Belting. They would be belting as loud as they could. And I'd be in my room and just come out and be like, Ram, shut up. So she kind of had it coming to her. No, no.

Each time she, each time she like, she totally knew like. I like forget. Like when my dad's on calls, I'll always yell. My mom's like, probably on a call. And this is something else I talk about. So there's different leadership skills that a person can have and some of them are genetic. And like if you're gonna be, if you play basketball,

it's genetically good to be taller, obviously. Well, if you're a leader, it's good to have a loud voice. And having a loud voice is genetic. And the reason I know it's genetic is because I have a loud voice and all my kids have a loud voice. And so like there's a lot of noise that can come from my kids.

So, It was cool that you got to hang out with your sister. It was a little hard of my ears. But that was good. Live by the sword, die by the sword. That's what he's called in the industry. So the freshman year, the COVID thing, the quote-unquote quarantine, because the Willing House wasn't so much of that.

Varying levels of acceptance. Yeah, varying levels. We were kind of just getting after it. But then for your sophomore year, so this must be why you went back to slow at the beginning of the year for your sophomore year because you were like, oh, I don't want to be at home with all this freaking butter,

unweighted butter in the pasta. Well, I think it was, I think, yeah, that definitely played a part. And it also just like being in a room with three of your sisters. Like it just was crowded. So I just went back up. Not really like looking back. I'm sure that played an impact, but everything made sense in my mind.

That's what happens. You make it make sense. You're like doing it for a reason. And you're, especially when you don't tell your parents or don't tell anyone that's close to you, everything is so like perfect in your mind. Like this is it. I'm on track. Boom.

If you have a little thought, like is this like, should I be doing? Like should I enjoy myself a little bit more? You're just like, no, if I want to see progress and then it all just makes sense in your mind. You know what I think is a really good red flag for life is what you just said about when you're not telling anyone. So when you're doing things that you're not telling people, you hear this with alcoholics, right? Like the alcoholic is drinking a bottle of wine at night alone

and they don't tell anyone. But they tell themselves, it's just wine. Actually, there's there's resveritral in wine. It's kind of good for you. And plus it helps me sleep like that. They're just making those things up. Yeah. So if there's things in your life,

And I've had friends that have had bad issues and they don't say anything about it. And I'm like, bro, that was going on. You didn't like tell me what was happening. So I think that's a really good red flag for everybody to remember. If there's things going on in your life that you're not telling anyone and yet you've convinced yourself that it's okay, but you know deep inside, you know you couldn't convince anyone else to be like, bro, what are you doing? So that's a very good red flag of checking yourself.

Because we can all say, you know what, I just like having a drink on the weekends. What's the big deal? And it's just a few beers. And my wife's already asleep. So who cares? You see what I'm saying? You're just lying to yourself. And you can get away with that.

But you know if you told some other people, they'd be like, hold on. And even if you have the idea, you're like, well, why am I even telling someone it's not that big of a deal either. Yeah, because exactly. What's, what's, what's, what's so bad? What's three beers a night? Yeah. Or six beers.

I mean, occasional shop. So you don't want to be that dramatic person that because in your mind you convince it's not a big deal. You're like, uh, I don't need to go tell someone because then they're going to be like, because in your mind it all makes sense. You think their reaction is going to be like, okay, well, why are you like telling me this, you know? Like, okay, you're like making sure you eat healthy.

That makes sense. Because in my mind, I'm like, I'm just being healthy. I'm just being healthy. So that's, that's good. Were you, go ahead. Would you consider just thinking back, would you, because there's certain levels of this thing, right? It's not just like you, you know. So let's say if you were to break it into three levels.

One is like, we'll say normal. We'll say run in the mill just, you know, as far as your regard for, we'll call it your relationship with food and weight and, you know, physique or whatever. Yeah. And then you have the next level up is what we might call what obsession. And then the level three is disorder. You know, I like people straight up just eating disorders, you know, see what I'm saying? Would you say you're in the obsession scenario or not even that or like, what would you, where? Let us continue the story.

Oh, okay. So there's more. No, I think this is where we're getting into full obsession brushing up against or entering into what's the lot. What's the highest level you gave? Disorder. Yeah, and I guess there's got to be something around beyond disorder, which is like, or maybe something in between. Yeah, I'm sure. Like, I feel it feels like it's a whole.

whole spectrum. Yeah, that's, that's, when you got back up to slow, were you, could you go to classes? So now this is like 2020, the fall of 2020. Could you go to classes? No, we had remote, remote classes. So now you're literally in your room. Oh, yeah, I was in my room. And now you have, you had complete control before.

And now you have even more control. And keep in mind, I was able to bring a car up. So you have the dining hall of your freshman year. You can go to like the store that they have on campus, but a lot of times, and shout out to Cal Poly, they put their calories on everything too that you eat. So like it was pretty, it was fairly easy to do. But when I went to the grocery store, like that was my sophomore year when I had a car and I was no classes by myself, bro. Just it was crazy. Yeah.

You were full psycho. So you're weighing your food? Yeah. Your vegetables, everything. Everything I put into my like mouth. Yeah. You had a food scale like a little miniature food scale? Because if you, no, I can't.

Never mind. Go ahead. We're here. No, no, because I don't want to because because if you measure things, it's not that it's not accurate. If you have a tablespoon, it's not accurate as opposed to a gram. And we would learn that like, like I was an Nutrition Science major, which because I was so obsessed with food in high school, I was looking at the options for college.

And I was like, well, I guess I'm really passionate about, and that's what I would play it off as passionate. And I just loved like, I loved like food and blah, blah, blah. So I picked nutrition science as my major, which made it like so much worse. And that's, which is so good. It's a great major. like it helps a lot of people but it is it is common and I remember learning this in class it is common for people that struggle with that type of thing to pick that major well it's also common because they want to go back and help like that's like I just saw a video of a guy who's like I did dermatology because I had

really bad acne as a kid and so it's sort of that like that like you you have an interest in it even though even though I was in the depths of it I just was like oh yeah because I'm so passionate about it. I'm just going to make this my job. I didn't really care about anything else. So when you said we could cut it out, basically what you're saying we could cut out is because is... I don't want to get, I don't want to make people be like, okay, I'm not accurate with my weighing like with a quarter cup. Well, yeah. So you're saying we'll make people more paranoid than they already are. Yeah, they'll be like, okay, I need to go by a scale to be. I don't know. Just just just, just so you know, like there's very few people like there's most people are like, oh,

whatever. Yeah. I know. I just like anything you see online. It's like, it's like people. It's like people, people, there's like accounts of, of tips for people for how people lost, lost weight. It's like, there's accounts for like, here's how to help you. It's like, only eat this. Like, it'll be, it'll be like meal inspirations. It'll be like a plate of cucumber. Like, I'm not even kidding. There's a side of the internet that's like, it's like, it's like, they call it like, I think I, they just call it like anorexic like inspiration. They call it inspiration. They call it inspiration. Wait,

do they call it anorexic? They call it like weight loss inspiration, anorexic inspiration, like inspo, like people posting their like how skinny they are in inspiration. And there's like, I know it's crazy. That's why I'm like,

I don't know, you've got to try to lightly with this type of stuff. But yes, it's not accurate. Well, actually I think it's, I don't, I don't want you to tread too lightly

because there's someone that's listening to this right now that would be like, oh gosh, I think that way. Yeah. I think it's actually very healthy that you say this kind of stuff because someone's rationalizing it right now and not being like, wait a second, a tablespoon. And I was worried about, you know, 0.4 of a gram extra sugar. Yeah.

That's not very healthy to be obsessed around that kind of thing. Yeah. And also like going back like if you're weighing out your baby carrots, let's like, let's just like you're eating baby carrots. That's like. Yeah, yeah. Good, bro. Like, you're good. You know? I would venture to say you can't eat too many baby carrots, but guess what?

You can. And you know why I know that? Because I did. So I had like a couple bags of baby carrots. I was sitting around and there was probably nothing else to eat. And so I was just chowing on these baby carrots. And all this, like, four hours later, my stomach was in knots. And it turns out you can't digest that many baby carrots.

Yeah, it's a vegetable. So be careful. Well, I don't think you have to be that careful for that scenario. But the, yeah, well, you can eat too much of anything. You can drink too much water. Sure. So, okay. And I think that's where you went.

That's the zone plus your use. So whatever. But the calories and stuff, you're allowed, I think FDA or whatever, you know, you're allowed 20% leeway as far as accuracy goes, you know, how they give fudge fat, you know, like, whatever. And I think it's like 20%, which when you think about it, if you're obsessing over anything, especially calories. but macros as well it's kind of like breath 20% it's kind of a lot yeah and

even like even things it'll say well three pieces of bread is this many calories two pieces of bread is this many calories but when you put it on the scale it's not the same weight of the serving size that it gives you so it like you if you really want to be accurate then you can do so in way because people will be like well they they said that 30 grams is the serving size and that's three pieces of this but it's actually 32 if you put three pieces on the scale so this is when you know you have issues quite no i was like well you didn't know but i'm saying to the general populace if you're like weighing the two pieces of bread which are supposed to have a weight of 30 grams and they have a great a weight of 34 grams and so you carve off four grams

right this is where you were at yeah 100% um yeah especially if the motivation is just low looks like you know obviously you have your well if you're heading weight for yeah exactly right but it's kind of like hey I'm looking in the mirror and giving me these kinds of emotions now I'm gonna go be all obsession then yeah I feel like that's kind of an incongruent relationship it was like looks but also in my mind it like scratched an it like when I'd have like certain like when I knew everything that was like I was eating it was like so satisfying I don't know why and I was and and I would shave off the bed to be like yeah like like okay. Okay. It made sense in my mind because I could put the 30, 30 in there. And you put the amount of grams. So this, this time I had a different app when I got older. And it like was a calorie tracker. And it went back to your phone and you can like see how much exercise. So was your wrist calorie track. It was a wrist one. Oh yeah. The wearable. Yeah. Yeah. And they in those track. So that's even more. They're not they haven't been proven to be. But I was like I just took it at face value like this is this is and that's way more accurate than just being like I did something for an hour like So it actually is more accurate than just guessing. No my first app would be like if you can put in an hour of wrestling And it would do give a general but this is like it has your heart rate. Okay so I trusted it more Which makes sense right like it's more trustable. You started going to like an underground

speak-easy cross-fit gym at this point. Yeah, so it was during COVID when we didn't have classes. And one of my friends started working out at just a warehouse that had like weights and stuff. And sometimes workout classes as well. And I just started doing that instead because our rec center was closed down. Yeah. Um, you, you were working out. I remember you telling me or you told me the other day that one of your friends was like scared of your workouts because you were going psycho.

Well, so that was freshman year when I lived in the dorm and I would have to do like certain things. Like, yeah, I would be really, really tired and I was not like feeling myself well. And I would just be like, I have to hit this. this number. I'm like, sorry, like, I'm not going to leave until I do. Stairs Stairstap or whatever. On the stairs step burn. Yeah.

And again, just so like a warning to everyone here, this, I didn't know about any of this. I was just like, oh, yeah, of course my daughter works out. She's been working out since she was literally five years old. Of course she's working out. She goes hard. Didn't think twice about it. Never thought twice about it. Yeah.

Oh, she eats healthy? Yeah. Dude, I mean, I don't know. Like, you know, I used to be like that with like, hey, kids, don't eat that. it's freaking garbage like eat healthy don't you know like I would do that I would say that to you guys for so for you to grow up and be like oh that's garbage I don't want to eat that I want to eat this I'd be like oh cool and then for you to be like oh yeah well I only eat a certain amount because I want to be healthy I would still this wouldn't it would I would have had to have a lot of

voluntary information from you that you would only have given me if you wanted to and I wasn't going to and you weren't going to and you weren't going to and And like I told you, it's not, it wasn't even like healthy foods, though. It's like, it's one thing. It's, I mean, I did eat healthy foods a lot of the time. But like, for example, this place, this grocery store next to us had this chicken alfredo. And on the back, it's at a thousand and ten calories.

And that was cutting my limits. That's how much I could have. And so I would wait all day. So that, like, isn't like, oh, you know that. But that, like, I love chicken alfredo, obviously. But it wasn't like, it wasn't like, I'm eating healthily. It's like, I'm just like, that wasn't, that was like no food. It was like this big.

And I would just save my whole day for that. Yeah. And just be like, okay, I got my calories. And yeah. But I wouldn't really think about that. Like, I'd see you eating chicken alfredo and I'd be like, oh, what I mean? It's just like, oh, yeah. I didn't really know that you didn't eat anything else that day.

You know what I mean? Yeah. But now that you were back up at school, though, when did this happen with us? You were telling the story about how you took a cooking class? So now were you guys back and going to class again? So yeah, that was my sophomore year. So for nutrition science class, we had to take an mandatory three-hour cooking class. And each week you get a separate like a menu.

Three hours per week? Three hours per week, just once a week. Like it was like, I think mine was on Wednesday. And on Wednesday, you got a menu. You had a team and you made this food. And we all had a pot look at the end of everyone's menu that you bring. And the food was like crispy chicken thighs, like mashed potatoes with so much delicious butter, brownies, homemade, like homemade pita, homemade hummus.

Like we'd all make different things and we'd all put it on this long table. And it's a 10-week course. I didn't not eat a bite of our food that we made for the whole 10 weeks. And my teacher said, as a chef, as a food scientist, you have to taste your food and see what it needs. Like if it needs salt, if it needs pepper, no, don't trick me like that. No, I was like, I did not try it. I said, can you try this food? would ask my partners can you try it is it is it good enough is it saltina i wouldn't even touch it yeah

but in my mind that's why i said i know i have so much discipline right right right but then in my mind as we were talking about it made so much sense to me like it is not in my control and like that that's like what are you going to track a bite like you don't even know how much stuff is in that bite. You don't know how much butter is in the mashed potatoes. You don't, you can't, you can't track it. So better off just leaving it. And I was, that made so much sense in my head. I honestly was like so proud of myself too. I was like, bitch. I like made it the 10 weeks. And that's that. And that it wasn't until like a couple of weeks ago when I spoke at the women's assembly where I was trying to think of stories. Because I didn't want to say, I was, I was restricting myself.

I wanted to come, I wanted to like convey what, what the nature of it was. And I feel like that's when I remembered that story and I was like, and I just blocked it out because it's like, I, I, I don't, I wish I tried all the food, obviously. But, you know, it's what it is. So is that, would you say that is like something or how did you, how did you feel like, there's what made you say this is not correct i am not this isn't healthy this isn't good for me what made you think that was there like a straw that broke the camel's back i know that you also told me you were like weren't going out with your friends because you were just like well i don't know where they're going i don't know what they're eating so i'd rather just stay home because it's better

and i'll be stronger and more disciplined if i just stay in my house yeah well so basically going to college, I thought, like, I, I would say, like, I struggled with food. Like, I would say it in the past tense, like, talking about the senior year of wrestling. Like, I would say, I struggled with food, but it's all good now. And, um... Because now I have control. Exactly. So, because when I was in high school, I felt a little bit more out of control in a sense that, like, I didn't, I did not measure anything in And like I would be like I guess I guess I had like three carnitasata tacos but you can't like weigh out like the meat, the tortillas. So I would be in class and just be like I struggle or like not in class I would tell my friends like oh yeah I struggled with this in high school. But you know it's it's fine now.

And I think in my mind the first two years of college I did not really think that it was that much of an issue until. like even in that class I didn't think it was that much of an issue I just thought I was like dialed you know just freaking super squared away disciplined imagine um and I guess it it wasn't the it wasn't my behavior it was like my mind that was my breaking point my mind I could not shut it off for like I had so much trouble falling asleep because I would just constantly think about everything, like how I looked, everything that I ate, what I was going to wear, how I was going to be perceived, like, body-wise to other people that I was going, like, I was driving myself actually insane. So it wasn't any of the behaviors that I was like, okay, maybe I should stop

doing this. This is, I was like, I cannot do this anymore. This is like making me go actually insane. And I was like, I think I talked to my friend about it, my friend Bella, and she, and I was like, I don't think I could do this anymore. Like, if I have to continue to live life like this, like, I can't. Like, I remember being like, what if I have to weigh my wedding cake on my wedding? Like, I remember thinking that, like, what if I'm worried about that on my wedding day? Like, that was like, I was like, dude, I, this is not healthy. Bro. Like, like, like, I, like, I, yeah, This is not. So it wasn't, it wasn't like my behavior per se because in my, because I was like,

I was saying this was right. Like I was convincing myself. It was right. My behavior. But my mind, I was like saying such negative things to myself. I was like, dude, I cannot continue to like be like this or else it's going to be a freaking nightmare, you know. And then eventually you realized you wanted to get like someone to help you.

you out through the situation. Yeah. So basically after I've realized I can't do this anymore, I talked to my friend and I was like, I think I'm going to try to like fix it by myself because I didn't want, like same same thing, like since seventh grade hadn't said anything really. So I was like, I'm just going to watch YouTube videos about people who maybe were struggling with the same things and just like try to help myself. But then I had I still had that back and forth of like, you're being dramatic, you don't need help because it was in my own mind. I was like, bro, why are you like making it more of a bigger deal than it is? So I was like, okay, that's sort of when I realized like I want to reach out so that I can

like have someone that holds me like accountable or like helps me, you know? Yeah. So you called me and mom. Yeah. And you're like, yo, I need, I need some help. Here's what's going on. Yeah. I just immediately started crying.

But I don't think you really remember this conversation too much. I don't remember it too much. I remember, and we talked about this the other day, I was like a little bit confused. Yeah. Because to me, you were the perfect child. You know what I mean?

I mean, no, but I mean, to me you were just awesome. You were always like super confident. Like you did not, you were the, you were one of the most confident humans I'd ever known.

And so when you're like, I don't feel good about it. myself and I'm like, who is this? You know what I mean? But luckily, also at that time, um, you know, we had Jordan Peterson on the podcast years before this and I learned something from him. What I learned from him was that there's problems that people have and there's people that know how to fix those problems. Like I didn't understand that before in my life. It was Jordan Peterson like hanging out with him and talking literally when he's on my podcast I was like oh because he was explaining and that it was it was um exposure's therapy he's like oh yeah when

someone's scared of needles here's what you do you put a needle in the room you tell them that there's needle in the room you have them walk to the door and touch the door and then a week later you open the door and they see that the needles on the desk and then a week later and you and I was like oh he knows how to do this he knows how to fix that problem and by the way if you're scared of this or if you have trouble talking to people or if there's all kinds of problems that you can have in your life and there's people that know how to fix those problems. And the way I ended up saying it, I don't know if I said it to him that time, but eventually what I told people is like, when you have a problem with your car, you don't just like start

you know, fiddling with it. You go to, especially nowadays, you go to a mechanic because in the old days you could figure it out. Nowadays with these new cars, you haven't figuring anything out. There's computers, there's stuff in there you can't figure out. So nowadays, you take your car, you bring it a thing. He's got a diagnostics machine. He plugs in and he goes, oh, here's the problem.

And they can sort that problem out. And then you can use your car. Then you can use your car again. And it all turns out good. So when you were talking, I was like, okay. Well, I was confused at first, but I was like, okay. Well, obviously it's something that's like the fact that you were crying. I was like, oh my gosh.

And mom, of course, is like the most supportive, awesome person. and ever. And so we were like, cool, do it. You know, find someone that you can talk to you to help you out. And that's what you did. Yeah. Well, mom actually sent me like, she sent me someone that, that her friend recommended. Like, she went out and looked for therapist for me. And she actually found my therapist, which is nice. Mom's awesome. Yeah. She was like, this girl doesn't have enough, doesn't, isn't taking clients right now, but she has a friend who's really awesome. And I went to the friend and I've been with her ever since. And so the primary thing that she did did to you is ask you questions.

Is that right? Explain this to me what she's talking to you about because I still don't know. I've had this conversation with a lot of people. We've had it on the podcast a couple times. I was like, what do they do to you? What do they say to you? They don't do anything to you. Okay.

So what do they do? What do they say? You, so basically you tell them like they don't know you. And this was over Zoom because it was COVID and I was living in slow and she's in the area. And they basically have like multiple days where they're just asking you questions. It's not, they're not trying to figure anything out or at least my therapist wasn't. But they just ask you questions just to get to know you. And then you start like pulling threads.

But they're not pulling the threads. It's you, it's them asking you questions. how did that make you feel about it? And saying things out loud was like, it was all the stuff that I was telling myself in my head. And when I said it out a lot, I was like, dude, that's not chill. Like that's like the biggest like help in my opinion

like is you will convince your mind, like you always talk about this, you convince your mind that this is the right path and I shouldn't work out today because I have all this stuff going on. right? So in my mind, it's like I every, your mind was the opposite.

You should work out today. It doesn't matter how you feel you need to get in there. You need to burn these extra calories. You need to do this. Yeah. But, but you always talk about like excuses, making excuses for yourself.

Well, I was doing that in a sense, making everything that I was doing okay in my mind. That when I said it out loud, I was like, bro, this is like not, not okay. And she would like ask, me questions and we would change we would change subjects if I was crying too much and she was like oh if we can go to like she's the nicest but it's more just pulling at the strings why why did this

happen why do you feel like this why do you talk to yourself like that try try like how do you think telling yourself that specific sentence how do you think that like makes you feel or how do you think you can say that in a way that like is better for yourself than than negatively, you know. You made, it seems like you made progress, but you were also like exhausted kind of. Yeah. Well, well, because I was like coming to terms with so much stuff. Like we were talking about my childhood. We were talking about like all this stuff. And I was like, holy. But I knew, like she said, it's going to be hard work. It's not going to be fixed, like, in a day.

It's been since seventh grade till I was, like, 20 at the time. Yeah. So I was, like, so physically and mentally exhausted. I would, like, after therapy, I remember just laying in bed for an hour, just like, bro, like, what the heck just happened? Like, I would just be like, and even to the day, to this day, I will sit in my car and just be like, thinking about it just it does exhaust you because they're asking you the questions you don't want to like answer you don't want to like say it out loud you don't like want to admit that you ever like

did that to yourself you know what I mean how long did it take before you stop wearing your calorie tracker that like did you do that was that quick it was like holy crap this is so jacked up I'm taking this thing off it was like a couple of a couple of weeks after I decided like this is, I just want to change. What about the food scale? The food scale, I, I, so when I tried to fix it myself, I upped my calories, but I was still tracking everything. So I was like, okay, perfect, I'll just get myself 1600 calories.

Like that's enough, plus I work out, that that gives me like 1,800, whatever. It was fine in my head made sense, the common theme of this, of this. But yeah, I pretty much immediately stopped. Yeah, I pretty much immediately stopped. It was really, really hard too. But my therapist was like, you need, why are you doing that? Like she would ask me questions about why I'm doing that. And I knew that I wanted to get better.

So I just stopped wearing my watch, stopped tracking my food, and stopped working out as a whole. because I was like so exhausted and I just working out has such a negative like connotation at that point and it sucks because I loved working out so much like my whole life I was working out yeah and I like I had made it into such a thing of like negative like you're going to do this because you want to eat food later. You're going to do this because you ate last night. You went over so you need to do that. It was like it was like it was like because I did not like how I looked or did not like how I feel that's why I'm going to work out. Not because I wanted to feel healthy, wanted to feel strong,

which I felt that before but it just got to that point where I was like this is not like not one part of me wanted to go especially not wearing the watch, especially not tracking anymore. I was like bro I'm just gonna chill because I've been in this in this head ping pong for so long that was like it's done and then you were saying after a few weeks of that you were like all right I'm going for a walk yeah and that was kind of your re-entry into the like doing something physically that you were like oh this is kind of nice yeah and I notice you still go for walks I do I do I do like going for walks yeah I like to, when I'm like cutting weight for jiu-jitsu, I like to go on walks. I think it's nice.

It's like I really liked just being outside, especially when it was COVID. That was the only time I was outside. My gym shut down or the wreck shut down. And then I stopped going to that like warehouse thing because I was like, I don't want to work out anymore. So then I started going on walks and it was like really nice. I really liked it. listen to podcasts on the walks What podcast did you listen to?

Jocko podcast. No, I listen to a variety of things. I definitely listen to Jocko podcast. I listen to like Huberman and I listened to like comedy podcasts as well and just like murdered podcasts just just some various things

and sort of get my mind off of it. then you signed up for, you started going to Headstrong, the gym up and swell. It's an awesome gym, by the way. It's a freaking awesome gym. You went there, like, now are you like,

I'm not, I'm working out because I like to work out. Yeah, I just wanted. Because it's kind of, there's a little bit of like, if you're an alcoholic and you're like, I'm going to quit drinking. And then you're like,

you know what though? I'm just going to have a couple beers tonight. It seems like, you know what I mean? You could, it doesn't seem like it would be a, a hard road, a slippery slope to slip back down. So you must have had a really good mindset change.

I think, I think I was like, I felt so like free after I stopped doing all that stuff. The issue was the nighttime because I would like a lot of times during the day I kept, I kept myself busy. I didn't want to like sit and think about, think about food, think about what I looked like. And then at night, it was. was like my hardest. Like that was when I was maybe like I would I would say as close to that like I'll just have a few beers like bro I'll just I'll just give myself 2,000 calories like I like that

was my hardest was falling asleep at night because I would just go through everything and I'm I'm not following the the regimen anymore. So like it was really difficult but I started I started working out I don't really remember I think I just started working out a couple of times a week when before I was working out every day yeah and just just doing very like basic basic like leg day squats and two other exercises that's it just just squats and like RDLs and accessory accessory I can't believe you weren't there for me on that one echoed what echoes occasionally he gets good hell yeah out there especially about something like that Yeah.

So you start working out again. You're walking. And when I wouldn't want to do it, I would just not. I would just not. That's good. You end up coming home after your sophomore year for summer. And at the end of summer, we all went to the origin jiu-tzu camp in Maine. Did you want to go?

No. I don't think anyone will my family. Well, that summer, Fran and I, that's what I was talking about earlier on. Fran, my sister and I were going to, like, Nogi classes,

like Thursday just to beat each other up. Like, we just thought it was fun. And then my dad texted in the family group chat, like, family origin trip camp, smiley face.

Freaking hostile, dude. Hostile freaking family right here. Yeah. And all the girls from the family went. Yeah. The boy couldn't go. But you got there.

And what happened? Magic. I'm just kidding. I didn't do all the sessions. Maybe I did. I think I did a lot of the sessions. I'm like, I'm here. And then I was, everyone was rolling.

And like, this person asked me to roll. And I was like, sure. and I just like I was like bro this is so fun and I remembered stuff even though I did I did a little bit of club wrestling in college

but like nothing serious that was before COVID and then I just like I just it was so fun so much fun and I remembered stuff and I got the sense of like that I didn't

get when I was a kid it was like beating someone for once and yeah it was it was pretty awesome and also just surrounded by such like cool coaches and like it was just sick

and I was honestly kind of like bummed because I was like damn I'm like a white belt you know and I was like 20 yeah so darn it but I came home I went I went back to college.

Wait, why darn it? Because you didn't start earlier. Yeah, because I was like, dude, this is, this is so fun. And I'm, and I, like, all the girls from the family lined up, and I was like a white belt. And we were all white belts. And I'm like, I feel like, oh, damn it. You know what I mean? A little bit, a little bit.

But I wasn't like, I wasn't, like, super bummed at myself. I was just like, oh, this is really fun. Helen revoked herself to white belt, huh? Yeah. Welch. From Fabio? Yeah. Oh, she can't do that.

She got to wear their blue belt. You don't lose a belt. I somewhat agree with you, but I'm not going to. She didn't want. That's not my fight. That's not my fight to have over here, bro. Big H. Gonna do what big H.

We were rolling together at the camp, or we were doing the technique together, and it was super fun. And I was like kind of getting after it. The thing is Helen is like really athletic. and also really strong. So when she was training back in the day, she was like really good.

And then she just got pregnant for like 10 years. And she just, and had kids. Like she's like, you got three kids, dude. Like you're not training when you got three kids under the age of six. Like you're under the age of five,

under the age of four. So she didn't train. But she still like, she still does enjoy it. And I was like helping her with the moves. And I was like, oh, you're a blue belchi. Yeah.

And I'm a white belt. She's helping you? All right. Well, look, hey, look, I'm not going to make a big thing out of this. But your belt is not up to you. It's not up to you. It's up to the guy who gave you the belt. Yeah.

So you can't be like, hey, just like you can't say, hey, I'm good enough to wear a blue belt when you're still a white belt. Helen can't be like, you know what? I've been kind of studying up. So I think I should be a purple belt. You can't do that. You can't do it the other way either. You can't do it anyway. You know why?

Because it's not up to you. I'm going to leave you guys with that. Okay. Well, I'll let you. you, I'll let you bring that up to hell. I'm not going to tell her that. No, no, no. So then you get back to college,

and now you got a little bit of like the desire to train the Jiu-Jitsu. Wow. And you go to Paragon Slow. Yeah, I searched up Jiu-Jitsu gyms near me. Clicked on like the first one, booked the class online, and just like showed up at noon. Mm-hmm.

In the Ghee. but yeah and I was just training a couple of times a week one time you called me after like a week and you were crying yeah explain so yeah I FaceTime my dad

and all this I my dad was not in my ear like you should go try out a jihitsu gym you should look one up Perigone's good I was like I looked it up I didn't even tell you I was going to my first class I think I called you after or something I think a brother paid for it over here, but that's just me.

No, it was free. It was a free first class. I have to say it after that first one. After that invoice rolled in, I think big papa got the call day. But, yeah, it was very fun. I just, I just like, I honestly have always loved fighting. I just think that things clouded in my mind in wrestling. That's all.

Like, I think I really, like, did love wrestling. I just like had other other stuff in my mind that kind of kind of decreased my love for it. Like at state, I feel like I, I like wasn't even present there because I was like worried about other stuff. You know? Like I feel like this was my second like chance to, because I did love fighting. So I start so I start doing shih Tzu. Yeah, you brought that up earlier. You brought that up earlier and I'm just going to rehash on this.

You were saying like even though you. would complain about jiu-jitsu even when you were little when you would go against someone else in class like you would go to yeah 100% like you like to fight and you like to win and that was evident and then we just had some kind of a mob mentality going on um but yeah so that it might have gotten clouded in wrestling in your senior year because you're like worried about weight and calories and all that stuff so now you show up and now you realize you can just fight people and I saw wrestling like as just a thing to input into my, like, app. It wasn't even, like, I was like, okay, bro,

when's the hour going to be over? Like, so I can put down an hour of working out, you know? But when I found Jiu-Jitsu again, like, I didn't have the app, I didn't have a tracker. I would just go, and I wouldn't even look at the clock genuinely. The hour would go by so quickly. It was just like, you just wanted to keep rolling. Let's just stay, you know what I mean?

But it's like that shift of doing something because like for the right reasons instead of the wrong. And Jiu-Jitsu helped me so much with that. Back to the question I asked about when you called me when you were crying after like a week. Just that's a good lesson for everybody. Yeah. Yeah. I was crying because no one. I think I exaggerated in my head that no one wanted to roll with me.

and she's been there for a week yeah I've been there for a week and I was like I just I just left I was like all the guys are picking each other no one wants to roll with me but no one knew me like I didn't like introduce myself to anyone like I wasn't making I was just like they don't want to roll with me even though I wasn't like hey my name is right can we roll I was just like in the corner like not making eye contact like bro no one wants to roll with you because because especially I've heard from a lot of guys that they wait for the girl to like make eye contact so that that you can roll right and I was just like you know not looking not looking at all and I and I call my dad I'm like no one wants to roll with me and everyone's friends and everyone during the warm ups is like in their little groups

and I was just like alone and but I didn't introduce myself to anyone I just walked in silent sat down and you know that's that but I call them him I'm like bawling. I still have a picture from it. I'm just like no one wants to roll with me and he goes like he said just stick with it. Thousands of people come and go especially in jiu jiu-situ like people sign up

to try it out and then they leave. These people don't want to make friends with someone that's there for one day and then dip. Although everyone at Paragon was really really sweet and nice. It's just how it is I guess and then the longer I stuck around I called my dad like a couple of weeks later is that I have like a friend group and and I'm going to lunch with them after open mat it was really cute because and also it's so funny because it's like all such people that you that I would never interact with like I'm in college I'm like hanging out with people that are 20 years old same as me and I'm going to lunch with like this random 40 year old construction worker

dude and like this other guy who's an engineer and then you know it's like I swear people are like what's going on over there but you know they were so awesome and like looked out for me like and once once they knew that I was going to stick around they brought me in like so quickly and we're helping me roll with me like show me technique like it was amazing yeah yeah um you you were telling me that like now this was something that you were doing where you are doing it. It's like basically a non-vanity exercise. You're doing it just because it is freaking fun. Yeah, 100%. And also it helped me a lot with those like with just shutting off your mind, which is not, it's not always good necessarily, always to shut off your mind because you have to like confront the things that you are thinking. Like that's your brain. But for an hour, especially when the thoughts are like not helping in any way, you're just, you're, it's just going back and forth. Like, this is not helping me. I need to go do something that takes my mind off of it. And like, lifting. It's just kind of monotonous. Like, I like lifting. It just, you're still thinking about things, like when you're lifting or when I was lifting at least. And when I was doing jih Tijuana, like, I seriously would go out and be like, bruh.

Like, what was I even? Like, I'm like, I didn't even think about one thing that is outside of the mat. Like, I was just like so interested in it and like wanted to learn, wanted to like get better, wanted to fight. Like, I just thought it was so fun. And it helped me so much with building back my relationship with exercise. Mm-hmm. And you started competing too pretty quick.

Yeah. My friend, like we, I started training. I trained a couple days a week and then I was training every day. And then my friend was like, should we do this competition? Who Alex? Yeah. Alex Taves. Shut out, Taves.

He was like, let's do this competition. And I'm like, all right, let's do it. It was like Jiu-Jitsu World League. We had to drive like three hours to get there or something. And it was fun. It was good. How'd you do? Good.

I got like third or second in Ghee and first in no-gee. It was good. Even though you're training mostly ghee at that time? I was training a lot of ghee. Yeah, there was one day that was no ghee. They're more of like a traditional school. And honestly, it was really, I look back and I'm grateful that I trained ghee because I think if I started anywhere else and they had no ghee options, I would never have gone to G. I seriously would never.

And Ghee is so frustrating, especially like as a wrestler. And I did like when I got the, when I got the feeling to train Jiu-Jitsu? it would always be no ghee like with me and my sister and so four days of the week it and open mat was all ghee so that that just showed that i i was like bro i don't like ghee but i'm gonna like i'm gonna do it but it's also interesting that you won no gee even though you weren't training it well i was yeah it's because you because you have the wrestling background and you have uh you some of your jjitsu was Nogi based from Brickda.

Yeah. When was that viral video? Was that that year? Yeah, that was at that competition. Oh, is that that competition? Yeah. My first tournament back. Oh, my gosh.

So, you saw the video, right? Did you see the viral video? Yeah, it's, uh... So basically, it was my, it was like semifinals for Nogi. And it was both of our first competitions. I'm pretty sure.

I talked to her and I like locked in a choke and I did not know I was like oh she's chilling because it's competition people don't tap and I thought it wasn't like

secure enough and I was just like and she was belly down so she was belly down you had hooks in I was pretty yeah but she was It was flattened and you had your hooks in. Yeah. So which was weird about that. The reason that's important is because her legs weren't like laying on the ground limp

because of your legs being in there. Her legs looked like she was like active, but you put her to sleep. Yeah. And the ref didn't know? The ref, the ref was standing up and I didn't, I like didn't really know what to do. I definitely should have let go. But I, I was. was so traumatized by it after.

Hold on also just real quick. The coaches, or I don't know if it's coaches, but people were also while she was unconscious, because once you watch the video, you're like, oh, she's asleep right there. I was looking up at the ref, like. But coaches were like, or I don't know if coaches, but people on her side, on her,

her supporters were like, you know, grab the hand, grab the hand. Oh, yeah. So you, hearing people coaching her, that's another indicator to you. Just like, okay, well, just hang on. And finally her coach realized what was happening and ran in and stopped it. And pushed me off of her.

The ref didn't stop the match. Yeah, the coach did. But yeah, so they flipped her over and she was like purple. Yeah. So the coach came in, finally broke it up. And then, you know, it kind of went viral because you have a person that gets choked out. And it's clear that the ref was, and you both were white belts. Yeah.

You know, the ref eventually figured out, but, or sorry, the coach came in and stopped it. So there was a, the reason it went viral was because of, the refit didn't stop it. The refs didn't stop it. Everyone was, yeah. And, yeah, and the coach wasn't mad at you at all. No. He was mad at the ref. So, yeah, and you called me and you were all bummed out and like all sad and like, as you just said, quote unquote, traumatized.

Well, in the moment, in the moment, I, I like it was it was really like scary. I'd never I never put anyone out before. Yep. You know. And I was like squeezing that choke too. Like it was like no. And when you put a choke on,

when you put anything on? Because you're strong. Like little kid can choke you out too. Oh yeah, of course. That's the crazy thing. I tell people this when you're learning, like you teach someone that's just learning jiu jitzu, the rear naked choke.

It's like now you can kill someone. Yeah. And they're all freaked out. But you know what's even crazy than that? Take a steak knife. You can kill someone just as easy with a steak knuff. Just walk up and stick it in their freaking neck. They're going to die.

But people get all freaked out when there's really, like every time you start up your car, you can kill somebody. Life is not, you know, that robust and sturdy that you can survive a bunch of things. So I remember you called me and I was, I had to, you know, be understanding. But at the same time, I said, hey, there's 10. people that get choked out at every jiu jitzu tournament 10 people go to sleep 10 people are going to sleep i said no one's going to care about this i go other than the ref i go to be some people watch it some people make comments but whatever don't worry about it and so i think that might have helped

a little bit well but what really helped you as you went to class on monday because i called i called you after you left class on monday i didn't even want to train like i was embarrassed i don't know yeah and yeah i went to class and they were like good job yeah good job at the church they weren't even like good job. No, there's like, hey, good job at the tournament. I heard you won what you won. She's like, oh. You didn't hear that I choke someone out?

No, we don't care about any of that. And the girl's good, by the way. I, like, messaged her and her coach and, like, apologize. And they were like, you don't. We understand. Yeah, that girl seemed chill. Yeah, she was really nice. And then you just kept competing.

You've been competing, competing, and you're kind of wrapping up college. But what I liked is right towards the end of college, you learned one thing. Very important. very important thing and that was your dad me despite maybe not approaching it the best way I was actually right and the way that I was right was as part you were a nutrition science major but you also had a minor in what exercise in sports studies exercise and sports studies and for one of those classes you had to do a deca scan dexa scan and that is

it basically checks your body, your bone density, your muscle density, and it looks at you, like internally and sees what you're constructed of. And you got it done. You got it done. And you sent me the image, the image, because your actual density was off. It was the, it was the highest possible point on the chart. Like there was no one else there. It was 99.99th percentile of humans is what you are made of.

There you go. So that's, I was like, you sent me that. I was like, I told you. I was right. I was right. Like you are not normal. Dense. You are dense.

Like it's actually called a densitometry. That's what it's called densitometry. And it measures how dense you are. And that's why when you are a little. kid, I would pick you up and be like, is this girl made of metal? Because she's heavy. And of course, I recognize now that that is not the best wording to use, especially for a girl.

And this is when you were real little, but it's funny because I, you know, you ever heard Joe Rogan tell the story about Yole L. Romero? So Y'O.L. Romero got his, he got punched in the head. I think he broke his orbital bone. and they send him to the hospital and they did x-rays. And some doctor calls Dana White or Joe Rogan or something. And it's like, you know, where did you find this guy? And they're like, what do you mean?

They're like, where does he from? What, this is not normal? And they said, what's not normal? They x-rayed him. And the tendons in his eyes were like three times the size of a normal human. And that's why that guy is just a maniac, right? I mean, he's just, he's built, literally built different. He's built different.

And that's, that's where you are. You're, you're actually scientifically built different. It's a weird genetic thing. And it's like some things, some things genetic. You can take a little bit of genetic and you can also add some conditioning. Like, like cold water, right? Like, we were talking earlier about, like, dunking your heads. And I would have contests to see you could dunk your head.

But there's some people that are naturally going to be able to handle the cold better than other people You got to see this in seal training if you have a guy that's like Maybe he's from Florida Maybe he's like ripped like shredded He's gonna have a hard time in the cold then you get some guy from Nebraska and he's well marbled and he's like whatever dude I'll get in that cold But you can also but then you can also get used to it you get you can you can you can increase your ability ability to handle cold water.

And you guys were always doing that. I remember when you were little kids, we were at Yosemite one time. And the water in Yosemite coming out of the river, Echo Charles. It's coming from, you know, ice. And it's, but it's flowing down. So it's not frozen anymore.

But it's 43 degrees, something like that. And so I had a contest with the kids who can stay in the longest. And, her and her brother were in there. And this is cold water. This is hypothermia water. And whoever could stay in the longest would get an ice cream. My kids would do freaking anything for an ice cream.

So I put him in there and they're in there probably 42 degree water. It's freaking cold. And they're just neck deep, neck deep just looking at me. 30 minutes. I'm looking at them, waiting for one of them to DOR. Neither one of them was quitting. And so,

and I look, I like get in and look at their lips. They're both, their lips are blue. All their lips are blue. And I just gave them both an ice cream called. Yeah, good idea. But see,

there's a level of the, part of that's genetic. Part of it's just mental will. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And part of it is conditioning. But like, your bone dense, your density as a,

human that's different that's like that's like a genetic thing and that's what you know rogan i was told rogan because you actually ran it told me that he had something he like said one time uh i want a girl who can help me move a couch so i sent him that thing i said i actually sent him the the the graph and i'm like i circled it with red because you if you didn't circle it with red it's so far off the chart you wouldn't see it's on the border yeah there's like the edge i'm not I'm kidding. The edge of the chart. There it is.

Like there's no one else there. Yeah. And so I circled it and I explained it to him and I told him. I said, hey, you know, you say, you know, my daughter said you want a girl who can help you move a couch. And I told him, I'm like, dude, if you need a couch moved. This girl's got it. Solo, solo activities. But you know, the thing is, though, is it's just interesting because you have this special

you know um genetic gift and because of society and because of me and and just like you were you were at a you were embarrassed of this gift that you had you know what i mean and that's just terrible so i'm glad that wrestling and jiu jitsu has brought it to a point where you recognize the the glory of it but it's not just genetics though because we've been lifting since we were like so young and lifting we learned in in like college was like helps your bones get so so strong and I think like lifting from such a young age and really like implementing that since we were what in elementary school you would make us get up and do workouts in the morning before a school I think all I think all children can benefit from kettlebells in the morning

I remember I would have like these Metcon set up Sure And they would be carrying the kettlebells up the alley Like racing and then kettlebell swings pull-ups Sprawls was a real big one sprawls was an early form of the burpee Yeah you know um But or burpees themselves But I would always have my kids sprawl like sprawls, sprawl

Here's a here's a very solid workout for your children every minute on the minute five burpees. I thought it was five pull-up. Oh, yeah. Five burpees and then max pull-ups. Or five burpees max dips. Or five burpees max some other. You can pick any other exercise.

But, you know, five burpees takes depending, you know, 15 to 30 seconds, depending on how hard your child is working. Sure. And how much you need to discipline them. But then they have 30 seconds. It's a crushing way to work out. Especially when your two siblings are doing it with you and you, they did five pull-ups. And so you want to do a little bit more than them.

So that was good. But that's, that's, it was kind of redeeming. When I saw that chart, bro, I was, I was very excited about it. I was like because it seemed proof like it seems so obvious seemed real right now it's like well there you go yeah science yeah factual factual and then from there when you graduated college then it was time to put that gift to use um now you're down here in in san diego you work at victory m-ma and fitness you teach jiu-jitsu you train jiu-jitsu you train primarily at victory MMA and Legion

Legion AJJ Jay. Sorry about that they're Keenan and me huh? Yeah yeah gotta differentiate that one What are you What's your schedule like

When you wake up in the morning Jiu-Jitsu all the time every day Yeah I started training at Legion When Victory had the fire in it And there was nowhere to train I trained in my friend's garage who had mats and would train in the morning,

but that was at 6 a.m. And the rest of the day, I was like, I didn't have a job because the gym burned down. They were finding a temporary location, and I still wanted to compete. And I really had never tried out another gym in San Diego because victory is here. And I tried out a class at Legion

because you my dad, well you. Yeah, me. Who is also my dad, is friends with Sloan and Mihaw and Keenan. He would train with them, cross-train. And I started taking Sloan's classes and J-Flo's classes and training with Paige, who is insanely good at J-Jitsu. And now that there's a temporary location, I started cross-training, and it's been amazing.

I have such good training partners and coaches at Victory and at Legion, so it's good. Can't complain. And then I love teaching the kids. It's so amazing. Yeah. And my schedule, yeah, just train jih Tjitsu in the morning. Come home, eat breakfast, go train jit-suitzoo again, do J-Flo's classes twice a week, get a, have a private with page and J-Flo. just lift as much as I can and yeah teach the kids too teaching kids coaching kids you're always at

tournaments coaching kids um are you are you in the sauna ice bath game not really are you more well you definitely do them sometimes but you're just like a weekend warrior when it comes to those things or something um in the beginning I was like super into it into what part into the sauna ice bath. I just slacking, bro. I don't know. But I like... Doesn't it make you feel good?

It does, but like, I don't know. The day is long of training. Yeah, that's true. It's like, don't you feel like it gives you recovery, though? Yeah, what I was going to say was when I started wrestling again, with J-Flow is basically only wrestling, and I hadn't really, I really did a lot of jih Tijuana on the ground. I, in my, in Paragon, we really, we really, really didn't wrestle that often.

And I didn't really wrestle that much, like, since high school. And when I started taking J-Flow's classes, it was a gut check, straight rounds on the feet. No pulling guard. Lots of times we're just doing, like, wrestling rounds. Just get your two points to come back up. and I my like middle back just from like my stance and holding my head up and getting my head like pushed down getting getting slammed getting like judo thrown in the most elegant way bro my middle back was really like really hurting and the sauna that's when I started implementing the sauna

a lot doing doing a stretch stretching routine in the sauna for like a couple of weeks and that that like helped so much but yeah just just training jih Tjitsu and lifting what are you eating eating good yeah there's no there's no like I don't follow a strict diet or anything there's no like specific animal base like I don't do any of that just I do eat red meat though lots of it and yeah just just trying to get protein in in the morning like I normally will have like a mulk or protein pancakes or something of that sort just just because I have heinous I probably just trained heinously and then I have heinous training after yeah um I can confirm that you drink a lot of freaking milk in our house I like I like this I like making like

smoothies with it like the powder yeah um so a few months ago I had some people visit down here in San Diego. They were making a movie called Way of the Warrior Kid. And obviously in the movie Way of the Warrior Kid, there's going to be kids that are doing Jiu-Jitsu. And the producer and the director, or one of the producers and the director were like, hey, do you know anyone that could like help us with training the kids up in J-Jitsu? And this is Mick G and Ben Everard. And they're like, hey, do you know what? Do you have anyone that could help us train the kids in J-J-J-Zoo? And I said, I think I might have the ultimate person for that. So you came up and helped out training these two kids, Ava Torres and Jude Hill, who play Mark and Nora in the movie Way of the Warrior Kid. And you came up and trained them in Jiu-Jit-Tur. How did you like that?

It was so, so fun. It was so last minute because you were like, we got to check on the budget for the movie and stuff. And I was like, all right, I teach kids jiu-jitsu. Like, we'll try to get it covered for as many weeks as I can. And so I went up, I think you told me, like, Saturday. And I went up on, like, Monday. And it was so awesome.

And it was interesting because normally jiu-jitsu is such a long journey. I mean, think about my jih-jitsu journey. It's been like over a decade. You just got your purple belt too, by the way. Yeah. Purple belt, you right here. Big time. Okay.

And so it was going to be sort of different to, because with the kids classes, you only want to teach one or two moves a day because, bro, everyone just wants to roll. Yeah. And also, they're not retaining, like, even I can't, like, even I can't pay attention to more than a couple moves in the, in a jiu-jitsu class. So, but for this one, it wasn't like we had all this time to teach them Jiu-Jitsu, and the Ava had to be like higher rank in the movie. So we had like three hours a day of just straight up technique, and they were troopers, for real. It can be so, to make it look technical and good, and I know that that was your vision for the way of the warrior kid. We didn't want it to look like silly.

like martial art, like whatever. So I was, it was a cool challenge for me because it's different from teaching the kids at victory. It was like, we have to do this. And I wanted them to understand that they understand Jiu-Jitsu. Because we did have some impromptu scenes where they were like, okay, do do something. And I was like, oh. And we think, thankfully we went over a bunch of stuff that we hadn't planned on putting in it.

Fight coordinator for sure. Yeah. What about, even before we started filming, you came up and when you were helping, because you were right up with me, you were like sitting in meetings. You were in casting meetings and with me and Mick G and Ben and Mary, just like looking at people. Like, wasn't that? Yeah, it was crazy.

And you also were there when we were going through the script line by line. Were you there for that meeting? Yeah, I was. Yeah. So you're there going through the script line by line. and you could see how this all comes to fruition, as you said. Like all the things that went into it, that had to be awesome to watch. Yeah, it was honestly crazy.

The whole, because when I went, I didn't know the progress of the movie yet. So, like, having it called, like, the whole floor was all for where your kid. And I remember. The floor of a building, she's saying. That girl, Charles, like this entire floor of this building. And it's a bunch of people too. It's not, it's not, I fully was like, it's going to be a couple of dudes. I was like, all right, let's see what's going to happen.

But this guy comes up to dad and he's like, has the exact replica of his glasses. And I'm like, what? And he's like, did I get this part right? And he faded them. And he made them. And I was like, bro. And then he pulls out his watches. And I'm like, dude, what is going on?

This is crazy. that was his job and he killed it. Eric had a props, yeah. Yeah. And it was so like technical, what he was pointing out. I was like, bro, they're like, they're focusing on that little thing. That's crazy. Like, that must be legit.

Yeah. So then I sat in on one of the script readings and it was so good. The director, McGee, I listened to the warrior kid. I was like, all right. But he, he would stand up in every scene. He would stand up. He would say, all right, Taco, stand up with me. So we can act this out.

And I was literally like, bro, this is so good. It was crazy. And that was when it sort of clicked to me. Like this is not just going to be like a movie about like, I got bullied in did jiu-jitsu. It was like there's so many more elements to it that are in the movie. and thought by the writers and it's so like elaborate

and it's amazing and the set was crazy too like the amount of hands needed on that set was wild and so much fun but coaching the kids was really cool it was their first time doing jiu-jitsu and their parents were watching

like what the heck is going on because I was like okay these are the four positions I didn't really because it's what I'm surrounded by all the time And I train with guys, I train with girls. Like I don't, I don't pay much attention as I should, like to things like that, to people maybe feeling uncomfortable. For us, Jiu-Jitsu is just, we don't think of it as this, the most contact sport that there is, period, end of story.

There is no sport that's more close contact than Jiu-Jitsu. It's just the most close contact. And I knew that. So as we were introducing like both Jude and Ava's mom are there and I'm like, hey, this thing we're about to do is real lot of close conf, very, very, very. And I'm almost happy I didn't really think about it because I was, I was literally acting like I was coaching victory. This is so fun making them so comfortable, which was like my top priority because I just wanted, I wanted them to work like well together. Because same thing. Having someone that you have, their, your partner, that's like, that's such a key. thing and they worked so well together what I was going to say was oh when I first started training jiu jih Tzu I would be like confused about women's classes I would be confused about

like separate classes because I was like what do you mean like I I didn't because I grew up around it I literally grew up like having freaking yeah jiu jih Tzu since you're breathing in my ear like I was like all right and then I wrestled and I was confused I was like why and and now when I start with girls they say I'm I like when they grab my wrist I'm like bro you got to grab my wrist this isn't like this you need to put your weight on me I'll be fine but this is what I what I realized about jiu jitsu for women is like that is one of the main concerns and I never even really put the if I'm grabbing your wrist bro it's going to be like with like I'm not going to let go you know but like teaching I understand the girls class now because and by girls

you mean girls and women women women yeah and I understand it to like a level where I did I seriously was like why would they do that and now I understand talking to so many girls I first started jujitsu just Just having, like, just learning how to put your weight on someone is so foreign to a lot of women that it feels so, like, weird. And like, I understand that that would be weird in, like, a class if you've never done it before. So that's one thing that I try to, like, try to help with, like, especially the girls in classes. It's like, even if, even if they're paired with the guys, just, like, making them comfortable being like, bro, they're going to be fine. They're tough. You can put your weight on them, you know.

I even talk about that from a self-defense perspective is if you've never had someone freaking grab onto you, it's going to be scary. There's three seconds to five seconds to maybe even you don't snap out of it of shock. Of just like, uh-huh, like you're just not used to it. Even when I'm rolling now and I've trained like jiu-jitsu and wrestling, if I can't get a dude off of me in side control, I like freak out And I'm like I'm like so seasoned that

You wouldn't think it would But I start I'm like dude this is like crazy I like simply can't get him off of me And that's scary Well I feel that way sometimes too To be honest with you I think that's a normal thing

Yeah Mick G Yeah What the crazy thing is So McG he like Came down here Like and met me

And was like, this is what I realized. McGie had, McGie had the vision in his head. Like he could see, because I can't see a movie in my head. I can see a jih Tzu movie in my head. I can see an assault on a target in my head. I can see surfing a wave in my head,

but I can't see a movie in my head because I've never done that before. But McGee, he sees it. He could see it. Yeah. And so that's what I realized. He was, when he was down here talking to me,

he was trying to explain to me what he could see and I was like even then it'd be like me trying to explain to someone that didn't surf like no and then the curls like the lip starts to come over your head and you're like if you surf you can see it if you're surf you can see it

but if you don't surf you're just like and I didn't realize it until like it was probably well it was while we were filming we were shooting a scene and I remembered him describing this to me and I was like oh Mick G saw this in his head when he read the script he saw what this

would and could look like and I was like oh and he has this for the whole movie yeah the whole thing not to not every single little detail because as you see when we're up there we're flexing and we're making moves and we're making changes and all that stuff's cool but he had the the framework and some of the scenes the specifics in his head of like

I know what this is supposed to look like and that's what and that's what we got to do um jude and eva when you met them were you like because i was like oh my gosh they're like they're like they're like they're so good for the roles yeah and they were so they were so like eager to learn something new and and and just jumping right into it because we didn't have much time and i think they may have been the most willing and actively positive students I've ever seen. Like they, like, to be that passionate about wanting to learn is, I get it. But I've never seen a kid that realizes, oh, I'm going to have to be doing this in a very

short period of time. I need to pay attention. I need to figure this out. Wait, show me that again. How does that work? They were both so into it and worked so hard to make it happen. And then how did you feel in the film? because you're in the movie.

Hell, yeah. It was, it was like crazy. The first day, I think we filmed one scene like the whole time. Yeah. Just for hours and hours. And we were just like chilling there. Do you remember what scene it was? It was, yeah.

What was it? I don't remember. It was when he takes his socks off. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, he kept having to put his socks and she said, oh, no, no, no. Yeah. It was really cool because when we were training, so you learn moves of Jiu-Jitsu,

but you can tell when someone hasn't rolled before, because it's very stagnant trying to do the move. But when we practiced, I was like pass her guard. And this was like day two or day three. And they were like, going for it. looking like kids that were in my class. And I think that was a key element to it.

It wasn't just like, here's a move, here's a move, here's a move, because. Yeah. That's not the jih Tzu. Yeah. That's what J-Flo says. Movement over moves. J-Flo, I quote. But yeah, so they, I taught the moves, but they knew that they had to have be off balance to do the Cissor Suite.

They weren't just trying to do it. Like Coach Rana told me to do it. do this move and I have to push over. Coach Rana told me right foot here left arm there pulled this here. They were doing both sides. They were pulling on the collar. They were like making their weight go forward, which was so crazy because it genuinely like they're seen where they're rolling looks good. That looks great. Echo Charles, what was your assessment of, because you are also in the movie. It's true. And you brought a lot of. excellence and legitimacy to the scene.

Apparently. As was noted by Mick G himself. Yes, sir. Was it what you expected? Because you obviously have a much heavier background in film. And so you've done this before. What surprised you about the whole thing? Well, a few things.

What it takes to get everything going. I was impressed with how efficient it was and how it all worked together. But I think that varies from set to set. the recreation of the set was very impressive. There was a time, I don't know if you were in the same boat, Rana, where I was like, man, this is kind of cool this time of day, you know, where the sun is coming in perfect right now with the mist and like, bro, this is going to look good on film.

I remember thinking that. And then like hours past, I'm like, bro, we better hurry up. Because when this sun starts to, you know, like switch position or whatever, we're going to kind of lose this look. But I'm like, whatever. These are professionals. They know what they're doing. They're going to hurry up.

They're not hurrying. They're like hours past. I'm like, brother, the sun is in the same. that spot. And then I realized that these were like actually, it's not the sun. They had blocked the sun actually. These are like actual lights. They had blocked the street.

Yeah. And outside at the angle that the sun would be appropriate for that time of day that they wanted to look that way, that's the sun. It looked like a freaking giant. It felt like the sun to me. It was the sun. Yeah. It was a hundred percent.

It's so trippy. I'm 46 years old. I know what the sun looks like. I'm not some kid who's like gets tricked by some light or whatever. bro, you know. But that was good. I remember one very specific time where we're filming in the, in the, in the, in the, jujitsu class.

And, you know, they're talking and all this stuff. And, you know, me and my family, we know the worry kid books. We read that thing, like multiple. And so we know the lines. I know the lines or whatever. And to see real professional actors with a scene with, you know, and to see like come to life, I remember like getting like chicken skin. Yeah.

It's like, dang, man, these guys are nailing it right now. And then you look on the monitor. Yeah. Because looking at it, way better even. So, yeah, in the moment, you're like, man, this is such a cool production. Like, this is official. We're good. We're good to go.

And then you see it on the monitor and you're like blown away, man. Just because, yeah, it's like a whole other level up, you know, as far as the production. So that was another one. And yeah, just how, like, okay, so you might not know this about me. But I've been in an acting scenario before. I've been in front of the camera before, whatever, right? And you know how like... Was this...

Your movie? Well, many, many different times. We'll say... We mean many, many. I'm just saying here on the podcast, I know how it is when the cameras are rolling. Okay. Okay.

So... But when you see, like, actual... When you see actual professional actors just doing, like, their thing, you're like, oh, man, there's, like, levels to the whole deal, you know? So that was very impressive. And yeah, yeah, from...

And also, too, like the... The humility of like the professionals on the on set, we'll say. Like that was, that was impressive as well. Yeah. And they made, unfortunately, we couldn't film in the actual victory MMA because of the fire.

So we made legacy MMA, which is a gym up there. They made it into a victory and brought all the branding in there. And it's freaking amazing. Those are built a cage. Yep. You know, like it's impressive.

Um, Ava and Jude wrote me notes about you, Rana. Ava said, Hey, Coach Rana, I hope you're doing great. I'm so proud of your accomplishments and Jiu-Jitsu right now.

I watch how amazing you are on Instagram. You're such an amazing coach and martial artist. I look up to you so much and I'm thinking about training of J-Jitsu and I get back home. All thanks to you and my incredible Warrior Kid experience. I know you're doing such great things. I really miss you. And I do hope we get the chance to train. together again because I truly learned a lot from you

and I had a blast. You're so inspiring and motivating with a heart of gold which is what I hope to do for all the Nora's out there through our movie Way of the Warrior Kid. See you soon, Coach. I love you and I'm so honored to know you. Aw. And

Jude wrote this. Rana! Exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation point, that's four. It's four? Jude. And he starts off with this. you are seriously the coolest person I know.

Now, I might have to talk to him about that. Because I mean, I guess I just got me. I think you guys met before that too. He said, you are seriously the coolest person I know your hard work and dedication to Jiu-Jitsu is unmatched by anyone. Even just being around you is empowering. Those few weeks we spent together training will never be forgotten. I started off knowing absolutely nothing about Jiu-Jitsu.

You not only taught me the fundamentals and showed me how to look good on camera, but you also inspired me to continue my training off-camera. back home in Florida. Plus, you are literally the original warrior kid. Very, yeah. Love Jude. So you got some fans from the movie. You also got some fans from the assembly.

The echelon front Women's Assembly. So what happened? Was it last year? You went and taught Jiu-Jitsu, right? Yeah. So Assembly 01, they asked me, and Katie to help with the Jiu-Jitsu. We honestly did not know how many women

were going to show up to the Jiu-Jitsu part and it's the last part of the event too. So we were kind of like, so real quick, the assembly is at women's leadership conference that's run by Jamie Cochran and the rest of the team at Eschelon Front, but it's four women, and there's been two of them,

and yeah, so it's been hugely successful and everyone's having a great time, but it's a, it's similar to the muster, except for the muster is co-ed, and Jamie wanted to create something just for women. And actually, it was Jiu-Jitsu that made me realize why, because I used to not understand why,

same as you. I used to be like, why would you have women in men and women's class? It's all the same. But there's a barrier to overcome in, walking on the mat as a woman when there's a bunch of freaking sweaty dudes there. Well, it's a similar thing with leadership. Like, oh, they want to hear about leadership perspective, not from me, but from another woman or other women.

So that's essentially, Jamie explained that to me. I was like, hey, Roger that. Go for it. So it's been awesome. But at the muster, we do jihitsu the last night. The last night. And so Jamie's like, we'll do it too. So Katie, who works at Eshlawn Front,

is Brown Belchi, and you are going to teach Jiu-Jitsu. So, but then you ended up like getting all crazy. Well, okay, so this is the thing. I didn't get crazy, but I was super, super excited to teach the Jiu-Jitsu, but Jamie comes up to us and said, hey, I'm just gonna ask you like how you got into J-Jitsu or whatever, what have you. Just a little intro.

And the assembly was like, this was what was that last year so last year I was like like on my little healing journey you know and only only really spoke about it my healing journey with like my family and my like closest friends but then I got this feeling inside like I feel like if I am just like oh how did I get into Jiu-Situ? My dad didn't, my dad wanted me to do it, but I didn't like it, but then I came back to it. Like, it's something felt like not fully true about, like, being so chill about it because it wasn't that, like, chill of an experience back to Jiu-Jitsu.

And so other people were, like, being very vulnerable at the assembly. And I'm not, I'm not one for vulnerability. I'd never like said anything to anyone, random people especially. So I, the night before the jiu-tzu, so night one of the assembly, I'm like, I'm going to at least share a little bit more than the bare bones of like what happened

about me training jiu-jitsu. Then I started coming up with things to say and I just like lost it. Like I just cried. and I went into the shower and like sobbed not like coming out of my nose like just sobbing not even like a tear it was just like sobbing I was like

how am I gonna do this how am I gonna say all this stuff and I'm not telling anyone I'm doing that so it's just gonna be kind of like and I didn't want to cry that day the day I did it but I was like it's gonna happen like I can't if I'm talking about such a sensitive subject I feel like the first time I share

it, like the first time those words are coming out of my mouth is going to be so hard to not. Like, I feel like, now I feel more comfortable talking about it. But in that moment, I was like, bro. But I just felt like I wanted to share a little bit more. So that night, I'm like shaking. Then the day after, they're like, this is Rana. Or like, they said, introduce yourself.

I said, my name is Rana. And Jiu-Jitsu and I have a very, long relationship and I just like got very I got more personal than like I ever had gotten with like random people or like someone that's not very close to me and it felt like so amazing to share it and there were 90% of the girls it was their first time training jiu-jitsu I didn't want to stand up there and sort of I think it would have been fine if I just kind of was like yeah you know it wasn't for me and then it was it would have been fine. It's just like, I wanted to be like, they're trying something new. Like I, this is my,

like, I want to go try something new. And then everyone was sobbing in the crowd, by the way, got the tear jerkers. But then after I just remember like bawling, I was like, I can't believe I did that. And it felt really good. It told me a therapist. And she's like, now you're like, and I got a bunch of DMs. Like, you helped me so much. It was very cute. And then, or like parents, moms that have daughters. And then I was like, wow, even though I didn't want to do it at all, and even I didn't even want to tell my own parents about what was going on, I just was like, if I can help someone,

then I guess I'll share like something that I don't want to talk about, you know? So, and now I'm here. Yeah, and you almost made it through the whole podcast without crying. I know. Well, I know it's going to help out a lot of people, and especially even from both ends, not only from like a daughter and but also from the parents, like from my perspective and like just how things that I did

and things that I didn't do that I just was just unintentionally doing stuff that wasn't the best way to handle things, you know? And so, you know, I think it'll be helpful for both ends of the spectrum. And hopefully it'll just make everyone train Jiu-Jitsu. Hopefully. Baja. You've got Echo Charles over here. He's getting teared up.

Come on now. And then the year later, Jamie messaged me. You said, would you like to do an interview on the assembly, like assembly number two? And I was like, oh, gosh. I already went through the first time. And then I was like, I had that same feeling of like, I went through all this. and then I want to use it to look like, like I'm,

I'm like who I am today because I went through it. And I would like to share to help people because I don't want to go up on like a stage and like say how I struggled. No one wants to do that. But if it can help someone, then like I'll, that's fine with me. I'll take one for the team.

Did Jamie ask you, like did she set you up for the same story basically? Yeah, it was, it was like how it was basically my relationship with like confidence and and jiu-jitsu and doing, and not even just jiu-jitsu, just doing something that you're like doing something for yourself that will help you. Yeah, that's another thing. Like even when you like, again, from my perspective, dude, you were on fire like with confidence as a kid. I like wasn't though. That's the thing. This is a warning.

This is like a, or at least, yeah, it's a warning. Like, from my perspective, dude, I would see you in a crowd.

I would see you with your friends. You were like very dynamic personality and you're a funniest kid and all that stuff. You did awesome in school. Like everything was, looked so awesome. And I never had any indication that you were not the most confident person imaginable. And yeah, I didn't,

you know, I didn't know. And again, that's a warning to everybody. You know, like as much as you think you might know what's going on with your kids, there's going to be some things that you might have to sort of pry into a little bit or ask better questions, a build a better relationship because nobody wants to, you know, nobody wants to like say what's going on or at least a lot of times people don't want to say what's bad. especially if you don't think it's that bad in your head too and it was like easy for me because

I because because I was very like loud and funny in high school and it was like that's such an easy like cover up if you start getting quiet then it's like bro what what's all what's wrong with you and it was just it was just like I liked it that way I just didn't I I knew that if there was some other tinkering that I wasn't going to have like full say in in what I I did. So I was just like, I'm just going to stay like loud. No one, no one like even questioned it really. Except one time my teacher was like, girl, are you good?

I was like, yeah, I'm just cutting weight. And my coach, my teacher was like, okay, let me know. Yeah, and again, that's like the perfect cover up, right? Yeah, of course. Perfect cover up. Oh, I just haven't cut him work for wrestling. And he was a wrestler too. My coach, Mr. Campanione.

Oh, yeah. King. Yeah, yeah, he's awesome. Yeah, he's a great teacher. But yes, that's everything that you're saying. And even actually as I was saying it, like everything that you were, it's not like, oh, I found a freaking crack pipe in my daughter's dorm room. What's like, oh, I found a food scale in my daughter's dorm room. Well, of course you did.

She's a food scientist. She's going to college and she's healthy. Like, just think about like it's not like I found a empty bottle of vodka crammed behind her bed. No, instead I found rice cakes. You know what I mean? and like a calorie. Oh, she has a, what's a bad app that you could have on your phone?

Like a dating app or something. Like, oh, my daughter has this dating app on her phone. Match.com. She's got hinged. Like, there must be something wrong. No, it's like, oh, she has a health food tracker. Oh, yeah. It's like health.

Yeah. Everything in that category from the surface level. and even like one level, maybe even two levels deep, it's all good to go. It's all good to go. And that's just a bizarre thing. Even like, oh, your daughter's,

your daughter's really exercising a lot. Of course she is. Hell yeah. Hell yeah, she is. Of course she is. It's my daughter. And that's totally fine to exercise a lot. But you can make it psycho.

There's things, it's like these things can not, can have not a negative thing as well. It's like if you, if this app, if someone wanted to lose weight in a healthy way, say they wanted to lose like half a pound a week or a quarter pound a week,

and the apps gave them like things to eat and you can scan barcodes, that makes it so much easier rather than thinking, oh my God, that losing weight is such a hard task to do. Like, these things can make it easier. And if people need to do it, these things can help for sure. And exercising helps. I mean, we all exercise.

Yeah, I mean, exercise makes you healthy. Exactly. So you're not, it's not like, it's just the way that it's, it's just the way that it's used. What are your goals now? What do you got going on? What do you want to do? Jiu-Jitsu world champion. Okay.

And like helping, like just teaching kids for like a very long time. time. I seriously love teaching kids. It's like you can you can literally see them like transforming in front of your eyes. You think that you're teaching them you would think that because you're teaching them some sort of like violent martial art that it that it's going to make them like worse or want to fight. But like that's it's so the opposite. It's 100% the best thing. And all the kids and all the parents will tell me like my kid is like paying attention in class more. Like ever since they started training jiu-jitsu, like, they've actually been listening to us and, like, more disciplined. And, like, it's, like, such an awesome transformation to watch it, especially,

like, kids that don't want to fight in the beginning that don't want to do it. And then you just see them, like, get so into it. I have this girl named Emma, she's six. And the first day, her dad brought her in, she sat on the side with her dad. I came up to them, I said, do you want to fight? Do you want to try the lava game and she said no no I don't I don't want to do it I said okay that's fine she has a jiu jihisi page now first of all competes at every tournament that we do is so fearless like on the mats it's so awesome does all the techniques we tell her to listening to us helping out kids that are like new in the class it's so awesome and she didn't even want to fight in the beginning and now she she's like winning like always winning Friday night fights always helping out such a good kid

such good manners her mom is like her parents are so grateful for it you know it's so awesome but that's not even the one story that's I mean yeah that's just one story like I teach a bunch of kids that have like attention issues too and they they aren't like you can see in front of your eyes like they stop getting kicked out less and less they're like paying attention they're like I'll help out the new It's so awesome. It's a huge part of the warrior kid thing. And I just beg everyone to train jiu-jitsu yourself, get your kids training in jiu-jitsu. It's so helpful for every aspect of your life.

It's just so good for you. And you got to be careful because you can do what I did. I knew that very thing with my own kids, and I freaking blew it. You didn't know what, though? The cool thing is now all my kids train. But I blew it for a while. I could have done it better. Let's say that.

Everyone has their own path. Yep. As we said when you got your blue belt, everybody, it's best if they have their own path. It's not just in jiu-jitsu and everything in life. But putting the crumbs out on the trail so they can find them is the best way to do it. Don't push them down the path. Don't shove them down the path. Don't cut off every other option.

sides of the thing that you want, put the crumbs out there. Let them see what it feels like. Let them, let them understand it. Explain the why to them. And you're going to get your kid to be in a much better spot. And look, there's a bunch of other, you know, all activities. And one of my friends, Scott, you know, he's always said he, when all of you guys were younger, he was like, I just want my kids to be into something.

Whether it's surfing, whether it's playing guitar, whether. It's volleyball, basketball, football. Just being into something is awesome and support them and enable that as much as you can. And if that thing happens to be Jiu-Jitsu, whatever happens happens. Yeah, then that'll be really beneficial. And even if it's not, if they train once a week, you know, if they're training once a week, they're getting in there, you'd be shocked, shocked at how much people, how much kids, absorb once a week over a two-year period over three-year period they're going

in their once a week once on Saturdays and by the way they're gonna win in a little bullying fight if they get attacked by some other eight-year-old and they've been training jiu-jitsu once a week for four months they're winning which is crazy but they're winning they have to worry about it so um those things are awesome you're also you're doing it you're going on the speaker circuit too right because aren't you speaking at Gabriel, Dr. Gabriel Lyons event? She asked me, she asked me to speak. What are you going to speak about?

Probably, it's in April, so it's pretty far away, but just about jujitsu and exercise and things like that. Right on. Yeah. Awesome. So echo Charles, you got anything else? I noticed you, a couple times I was looking over, you know, you got kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's true. You look like you were thinking about, you know, what it's like having kids and. hopefully you learn from some of the mistakes that I made. Yeah. Yeah. I think, well, I think watching you guys grow up,

um, it mirrored, especially you mirror a lot of what my daughter goes through because she's like stronger than her peers and stuff. Um, but yeah, it kind of, it kind of provides like a good,

kind of like a track, like a path, you know, something that I think that, um, we all can kind of hold on to because it's easy to compare ourselves like to other people, you know,

But I think a lot of times that's a mistake. But yeah, it was cool to know you and to see you grow up into who you are today. Thanks. It's interesting because you've been, you've known all my kids since they were little tiny kids. Yeah, like baby kind. Yeah, I think maybe you knew when we opened victory, I think that was like 19 or sorry, 2000. And it was 2008, but 2007 we were, we were training here for like four months. So it was 2007.

And then we officially opened to the public in 2008. So how old were you in 2008? Seven. Dude, so yeah, my son was five. Yeah. Your older sister, Freya, was nine. So that's like, you've, I mean, a five-year-old is a little kid. Yeah.

A seven-year-old is a little kid. Yeah. Like a kid kid, kid. And it must have been weird for you because you didn't have kids yet. No. So you're just like looking at these freaking feral creatures. It was funny. We were at Tim's house.

You know that picture? I think I sent it to all you guys. Timbo. Yeah, Timbo mania. In fact, I think it was. It was actual Timbo mania. Yeah, yeah. And it's all you guys in the jacuzzi with my brother.

And yeah, you guys are like little kids. Yeah. Yeah, it was funny. But yeah, it's funny. And the next time I saw you was a picture that Jocco sent of you like after you won a wrestling tournament. You're all like buff. I'm like,

I don't remember this daughter, you know, like this is, and you kind of connect the dots. I was like, wow, man. Yeah, it's crazy.

But yeah, good job. Good job, Hannah. Thanks. Get you. All right, well, I guess,

um, do you want to thank probably victory and Legion and origin and Jock Fuel? Sure. Yeah, I do.

I do. What else? Is that get us up to speed? Where can people find you? At Ranan Wellink. Yeah. At Ranan Willink on Instagram. I post a lot of jiu-jitsu.

And yeah. And speaking of mulk. Sir. Echo Charles, are you on the mulk train? Of course. Yes, sir. I'm very much more than you. You have to your road work today?

Yeah, of course, yes. Mulk chain, that's protein, which you need. You know what else you need? Joint warfare. Yeah, it helps. You know what else you need? Supercrow. It helps.

How many goes do you drink a day, Rana? One. One if that. Before what class? Jayflow. Jayflow. Just, yeah. Or before I teach the kids, just depends.

I won't drink two in one day. But I don't drink coffee or anything like that. Yeah. If you want this stuff that's going to help you throughout your journey, go to joccofuel.com. Hi, journey. Hi, journey. Hi, healing journey.

Hi, healing journey. If you need stuff to help propel you down the healing journey, we got the stuff that you need Joccofuel.com We're We got the 434 tour going on We're going to be in Bentonville, Arkansas Saturday, October 26th

So if you want to come by for that If you want any of this stuff Like I said, you can go to joccofuel.com You can go to Walmart, you can go to Wawa Vitamin Shop, G&C Military Commissaries, Afees, Hanifer Das Stores in Maryland, Wakefern, Shoprite, H-E-B, down in Tejas.

Meyer up in the Midwest Wegmans I just had someone tell me that they buy out Wegmans like once a week. They're sitting there getting. I was like outstanding. Harris Teeter Lifetime Fitness shields. And we're getting into more and more places. Small gyms.

We're in jiu-jitsu gyms all over the place. Legion victory. We're going into autos. Yeah. So just if you got a jit-soo school or you got a CrossFit gym, J.F. Sales at joccofield.com. Hit us up and we can get you the goods that you need. also on your healing journey of jiu jitsu

guess what you're going to need echo charles it wasn't a healing journey of jiu jitsu it was just like healing journey of myself jujitsu was part of the but jih Tjitsu is part of the healing yeah it's not of jiu jihitsu it's of random link I'm gonna say okay

we won't give jihitsu too much credit whoa whoa whoa wait wait wait wait wait wait I give it a lot of credit I said I heard you say something the other day you were like I do not you said I do not know where I would be in my life right now without the Jiu Jitsu Boja? Well yeah

Yeah that's like okay Sorry I'm gonna She said you didn't want to give Jiu Jitsu credit Oh too much credit No I the healing It started with a lot But Jiu Jiu Jitsu helped me Tremendously for sure

But it doesn't have to be Jiu Jitsu should be Jiu Jitsu Jiu Jitsu helps It does. It does. It does. It helps a lot. Something that you're into.

Something that you're into. That you like to do that takes your mind off things. That is crazy. We've got a lot going on in life. You know the thing about one of the thing about the jujitsu is like, let's say you, there's other things that you can get into that you can get obsessed with that thing. And when you get obsessed with that thing, it makes you obsessed with a lot of other things that are tangential. to the thing.

So instead of just being obsessed with the thing, you can be thinking about like, well, I really need, if I'm into guitar, I really need to get this amp and this app and this thing and this that and this tuner and all this stuff, right? Well, it's not just like jih Tijuana

to help you do the main thing. But I'm saying there's, like, you can only get a ghee and a rash guard. There's no like... You can get a cute one from origin. That's true. So speaking of Jitsu geese, OriginUSA.com, check it out.

We got Made in America, Jiu-Jitugi's, we got rash guards, we got jeans, boots, boots, of course, T-shirts, joggers. We got everything that you need. Workout gear, hunt gear.

We got everything that you need. And it's all made in America so you don't have to worry about sending money to this nation's adversaries who have actual slave labor in 2024. We fought against slavery in the Civil War. Let's continue to fight against slavery by buying American right now.

Go to origin USA.com. That's what I got. Echo Charles. It's true. Oh, also, Aaron, I got to thank you for keeping us and Jocko, especially up to date with all the current terms, terminology and expressions. Because,

what's your guys' favorite? Um, well, it's a good one. Um, that actually, that was a new one the one that you just said

when you're like, hello journey. Hello journey. Yeah. Like, what does that mean? Like, oh,

that's a new one, right? Hello? Like, oh, you said that. It's sort of like, sometimes your journey,

like, can be a little bit like, this is my journey. Mm. You know? Well, I actually, I actually sent on the family

group text, said, hey everyone, Rana's coming on the podcast. Please send Rana's vocabulary words. Because she has her own freaking way of speaking, which she refrained from decently amount today. But maybe the next time she comes on, we'll go through the entire, because the thing that was funny was she would say these words,

but then like her friends would all say these words, and then the family would say these words. And so it was like, and even dad's, even you say those words. Oh, yeah. I would say these words. Eating. Yeah.

Eating. Yeah. That's one. Did you make that up? You didn't make that up. But she brings it in from popular culture. Yeah, yeah. She's like the prophet that brings it in or whatever.

Like yeah. And my daughter, she's 11. So she gets some of it and I kind of, you know, refine my understanding and knowledge. But I think this is where I get the bulk of it for sure. Clark. Ah.

See, I just hit you. Right. You can't hit me with the events. That one I made up. Yeah. Okay. For sure. We need to disseminate or discern between the words that you brought into the thing.

A lot of things I don't make up. It's just you guys have never heard it before. But I love when you start saying it. And then my friends are like, bro. What? Did he just say period? Yeah. So much.

Wait, period. So I remember one time we were recording your singing by the way. And you were asking a question. And then you said question mark. You said the word question mark. So I was like, I was like, wait, is this some weird. new like thing and then I'm then I like thought about it for a little bit a day maybe two and then I realized is it because you're you talk to text a lot no I never talk to text I think it's just like

you're saying a statement but you're also kind of asking you're like I guess I'm going to say that on the podcast question mark yeah you know what I mean yeah because it's like I guess you are saying I guess I'm going to say that but also you're saying like making it clear that it's a question Yeah. Like in Jiu-Jitsu, if you know, if you're like, wait, does my hand go here? Question mark? Okay. Because you kind of know your hand goes there, but also you're like, you're not like, my hand

goes here because you don't know. And you're asking, like, your coach. And you're just like, question mark because you don't want to be like, I know it. Period. You're like, I don't know, question mark. Yeah. So it's not redundant. It's kind of just more specific, really.

It specifies it. Yeah. I thought I can. that it was like, oh, no, these kids nowadays, they're on their phone texting and stuff. Sometimes they're talking and texting. And when you say, question mark, it puts a question mark there, you're saying. But hey, all right, yeah, I'm glad I know now.

But also, by the way, thanks for clarifying, by the way. Of course. If I'll be on the lookout for any new terminology. Anyway, Jocko's the store. I don't know if you know this. Actually, I do know you know this because I see you representing from time to time, which I like, by the way. But it's called Jocko Store.

So you go to joccoor.com. Disill equals freedom. Rush guards t-shirts hats hoodies mainly t-shirts that's what we I don't want to say specialize in but we kind of specialize in T-shirts speaking T-shirts also shirt-locker it's called the shirt-locker subscription T-shirts scenario new design everyone good design ren has requested certain yeah yeah ones of those from you yeah especially toxic product did you make up toxic productivity no that's that's my older sister frayer made that up yeah yeah yeah she's like but it's true it's true yes I'm I'm the CEO of talking about

Productivity. CEO. Have you heard of CEO? CEO poster shop. Oh, wait. As an expression? Yeah. No, no, not later.

Oh, wait. If we're talking about something, you say, I'm the CEO of the company. Like, trust me, I know, you know? Like toxic productivity. Have you heard of it? Dad would be like, I'm the CEO of the company. You know what I mean?

Okay. Good. Good. Which of this case, I guess I am. But also, everyone must get stoned. I requested that shirt, but I can't really wear it anywhere. How come? Just like, if you, I don't know.

Might be too much for some inviardments. There are some people that didn't, that were against that shirt. But because I heard the story about it, I was like, I want that shirt. Yeah, that's so good. What about this one right here? That is a cool shirt. Yeah, it's pretty cool. It's not shirtlocker.

This is available. So, Jitua's Life T-shirt. You got the DefCore flag flying boldly and aggressively there. Very aggressively. You have four stripes on your black belt in that particular thing. Actually, this is the empty space. So it represents any belt that you may have. Do you what I'm saying?

That's the symbol. The layers behind it. Nonetheless, shirt lockers a little bit outside the box designs. Very noble. Yeah, that's good fun. People seem to like it.

There was one guy representing it at the muster with the, it was the Snickers. I saw that. Did you see that one? Yeah, yeah. Is that discipline on it? And freedom on the back.

I signed a toxic productivity t-shirt at the muster. Perfect. I love that shirt. So there you go. Jocco store.com. That's where it is. There you go.

Also, Renna eats steak. She gets her steak from primalbeef.com and Colorado Craftbeef.com. If you want to get the best steak, go to those websites and get some. Also subscribe to the podcast, also Jocko Underground.

We're about to record one of those right now. YouTube channels, what is there's Origin USA, there's Jocko Fuel, and there's Jocko podcast. Check those out. And clips. Oh, and there's Jocko podcast clips.

Do you run that? It's a good one. Let's say we collectively run it together. For sure. Okay. Okay, bro. I've written a bunch of books. So if you want to get those books, check them out.

If you want to, look, there's a movie coming out. It's called Way of the Warrior Kid, directed by Mick G. Goodman. Starring a guy named Chris Pratt. Good man. Also featuring Rana Willink, Echo Charles. And Jalka Willink. And me, as a matter of fact.

We're featured in it. Yes, sir. So you may want to be. on the lookout for that but i'll tell you what get the books the movie's not going to come out for a a bit so you want to introduce jih Tjitsu to your kids in a real powerful way get the books way the warrior kid you want to introduce your kids to working out in a real positive way get the books you want to introduce your kids to healthy eating get the books they don't need to be eating junk now do they need a freaking scale no they don't need to weigh their food there's nothing no mention

So check those out. Also, Eschelon front, we solve problems through leaders. We have leadership consultancy. We just heard about the women's assembly. We just got done with the muster. Down in Dallas, it was sold out.

It was freaking epic. The next one is in San Diego. San Diego. February 23rd through the 25th. These things sell out. They have all sold out, and they all will sell out. If you want to go, register ASAP, come to San Diego and check it out.

That's going to be February 23rd through 25th. After that is San Antonio. I think that's April 29th through May 1st. So there you go. FTX, Council, Battlefield. We have a bunch of things going on. If you want our help with your leadership, go to Eshlamfront.com. We also have online training academy.

Have you spoken on one of those yet? No. Jamie's going to have you speak on the women's one because there's a women's one. All right. So check it out. We have an online training. Academy go to extreme ownership.com, these principles that we teach. We do it on courses. We also are live on there and it has helped so many people square away their business and their life. Check

it out, Extreme Ownership.com. If you want to help service members active and retired, you want to help their families. You want to help Gold Star families. Check out Mark Lee's mom, Mama Lee. She's got an amazing charity organization. If you want to donate or you want to get involved, go to America's Mighty Warriors.org. Also, Micah Think, I guess, latest report, he was fishing with a stick and he stabbed a salmon, pulled it out of the river. He's eating it right now, Riverside, watching the sunset. He helps our veterans find themselves by taking them up into the wilderness. Heroes and Horses.org.

Also, Jimmy May's organization, Beyond the Brotherhood, helping seals after they get out, transition into the civilian sector. If you want to connect with us on the interwebs, Jock. So on social media, Rana is at Rana Willink. You're on the gram. Anywhere else? No. Twitter?

Yeah. X? No. I'm at Jocker Willink. Echo is at Echo Charles. Just be careful because there's an algorithm that will choke you. Put you to sleep. You won't even know it.

echo charles any final questions for rana no that was it good to see you sister do you roll with rana have i ever rolled with rana you know yeah yeah plenty how does that make you feel well i'm very happy that she's in jiu jitsu we'll put it that way i'm very happy she's on our team i'll put it that way and i'm glad that you are who you are have you panicked rolling with rana panicked i can't say that i've panicked have you have you have you you say this to me sometimes The answer is yes. What's the words you say to me? Sense of urgency.

Have you felt a sense of urgency with Ren Willing? Yes, various times. So actually I'll even tell you where, and I said this at the camp when I was teaching. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I used you as the example. So there's a move. Jaco or not Jocko. Dean calls it the punk sweeper.

I don't know, something like this where it's like, it's a thing where you essentially put the push the back of a guy's arm when they do this thing or whatever. Like stiff arm on the armpit. Yeah, like behind the tricep kind of way. And you kind of can get up and get out of side control. It's a very effective. to move. Big,

a small guy, whatever. And I didn't even remember it because it happens like pretty rare. But the time that it always happens is with Hannah. So it's the one thing

you gotta watch out for and I know this that you gotta watch out for this because I almost got got with it a few times. Almost got got. And those were the times

that I experienced that sense of urgency that I sometimes talk about. Yes. All right. Ranah Willink, any closing thoughts from you? No.

Thanks for having me on. That was very fun. Very fun. Well, thank you for coming on and thank you for sharing your stories and your lessons. And thank you for being such a great person and such a wonderful daughter. And you're not only inspiring to a bunch of men and women and kids around the world, you're also inspiring to me. Thanks, Pat. Also, thanks to all our military personnel around the world.

We know that you make sacrifices to keep us safe during peacetime and during war. So thank you for protecting us in a way of life. And also thanks to police, law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service, as well as all other first responders. We know that you sacrifice greatly for us as well. And we thank you for it. And to everyone else out there, trust, listen, respect, influence, and care. This is how you build relationships with people. You give them those things.

And this not only includes the people you work. work with does it don't not only includes your peers it not only include your subordinates and not only includes your boss most important it includes your family so give those things to them and of course go train jiu jitsu with them too until next time this is rana and echo and jocco out